Standards (Conversations 1973 - 1974)

Expressions researched:
"standard" |"standardization" |"standardized" |"standards"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: standard* not "standard* of life"@3 not "standard* happiness"@5

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, best thing was to say that he is not in good (indistinct) now, say to me that he is incorrigible. (indistinct) He may be one day, once, twice, if he does not follow, then you shall ask him just to please leave this place. That's all. That should be offered. We should also... The police said that when I told him that our regulation is that everyone should get up at four, so he immediately, "I don't see anyone who is rising at four." Nobody. What can I answer?

Devotee: How can he say that Śrīla Prabhupāda? How can he see if anyone is rising at four or not?

Prabhupāda: Now here is the (indistinct). He says that nobody rises early in the morning. Just like yourself.

Śyāmasundara: But he is rising.

Devotee: I am, I am rising.

Prabhupāda: He is rising, but others!

Pañcadraviḍa: Some others are rising, not, not all, but some of them are rising.

Śyāmasundara: The whole point is that the sannyāsīs must see that that standard is kept to the highest. That's their job. That's why you've taken...

Prabhupāda: But that should be observed and peacefully it should be settled. If it is not peacefully settled, the man who will continually disobey, he should be respectfully asked, "Please go home." You cannot... That...

Pañcadraviḍa: Who has the authority to say to somebody, "Please go," though?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Pañcadraviḍa: Who has the authority to tell a person, "Please go." We don't know who, I don't know who has that authority.

Prabhupāda: The president will say. So long I am here, I shall say. (indistinct)

Śyāmasundara: This, this daṇḍa gives authority to the...

Prabhupāda: That gives authority.

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Pañcadraviḍa: In your lectures you emphasized two aspects must be there, jñāna and renunciation. So some knowledge is there, but that part of the difficulty is that with most of the devotees in every temple in India, is that they have not renounced these dirty things completely. They still are attached to sense gratification even on gross levels. So whether a sannyāsī or anybody interferes with their sense gratification, they tend to not oblige because they are attached to doing things the way they want. And they think because they are in a foreign country here, a long way from America where the standards are very rigid, that they can do any manner of nonsense and nobody will check them. And if you try to correct them, then they will only do it behind your back. We have seen this, with the sweet shops, with rising early, anything that interferes with them doing as, exactly as they please, they don't want to oblige. And this is in Calcutta, this is in Bombay, and it's happening here in Vṛndāvana. It's not something that's isolated here to the palace, but the devotees all over, they are just behaving on the level of sense gratification, and that's why there is so much rajas guṇa in the temples. So much rajas guṇa.

Prabhupāda: This is a fact. So how to correct it. If you do not correct yourself, how you can correct?

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Pañcadraviḍa: Well we, many of us have tried to correct ourself, and as a result we have been accused of being separatist, simply because we don't want to go along with the nonsense that everybody else is doing, but we want to maintain some standard for ourself, of reading and chanting. Because we don't want to sit down and talk nonsense or do nonsense, and if you try to stop them they will not stop. So why we should fall down to that level? So we behave as separatist. We go into our room and we'll read, or we'll go into our room and chant, or we'll try and keep ourself clean, or try and do these things, and that is separatism because it's not falling into the level of māyā that's going on everywhere else in the temple, engaging in party politics and all these other things. That is, that is what I feel about it. Most of the devotees, they seem out of place.

Prabhupāda: Whatever is done is done. Now, you try to correct others by behaving yourself. Otherwise, there is no need of keeping so many men. We have attempted in Vṛndāvana. A few men may remain here. That's all. Otherwise, it will be not very nice to attract when people are attracted by seeing your behavior. They are seeing that, "Oh, Europeans and Americans, they have got such nice Vaiṣṇavas." They are attracted on that point. But if we are not to the standard point, they will immediately accuse, "Oh, they are..." So that should be corrected. The same principle, āpani ācari prabhu jīvere, we should behave ourselves nicely, then teach others. Then it will be (indistinct). Another, this is general principle, now we have discussed, now we try to follow. Another thing that Keśi-ghāṭa affair. Shall we make further progress? I acquired that property (indistinct). What is your opinion? From the circumstances as that is now, because any temple, it must be nicely, very nicely managed, otherwise you cannot attract. Our Los Angeles temple we want to attract people. So it is so nicely managed, very nicely managed. You have seen. So unless, that means there must be sufficient bank balance. Such a big temple.

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Devotee (2): Because not everyone is going to want to be, uh, you know, it's really, if the temple's not there where the devotees can just come and fall into the schedule and program and activities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): Then they'll not want to maintain any standard themselves. They just fall back immediately into their old habits, naturally.

Śyāmasundara: Of course if we could, we could enter the negotiation and save it for a future date, because it won't be available.

Devotee (2): I don't think we need to worry about that.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (2): I think that if we, if we don't worry about the material thing at all, that if we do the sp..., we start and we have a spiritual base, that it will grow naturally and Kṛṣṇa will provide us with any material facilities we need. We don't need to try to get things for the future.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

Devotee (2): If we have devotees then...

Śyāmasundara: That's why I think Kṛṣṇa doesn't want us to have it really.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Śyāmasundara: Well, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa will be in Hyderabad and we can ask him to do it.

Prabhupāda: Weak, weak I am. Physically I am weak and besides that, if I have to see to the administration then I cannot think of writing books and how to present our philosophy to be understandable by the people. Therefore the administration is divided. Now you do, little intelligently. We have got still respect. Keep our standard. The people will like us. People wants to give us help, just like this big sannyāsī, one of the biggest sannyāsīs, Gangesvarananda(?), he is attracted. He is a man of immense resource, men and money he has. Immense resource.

Śyāmasundara: We have to be careful not to...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: ...not to offend these people the...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Śyāmasundara: ...not to offend these people the...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Spiritual leaders.

Prabhupāda: So, not offense (?). There is no question of making. We should behave ourself very nicely. Offending or pleasing that is (indistinct). You cannot offend everyone, neither you can please everyone. That is not possible. You keep to your standard. You keep to your standard. Then everything, everybody will see, "Oh, that is nice." Offending, you cannot please everybody. That is not possible. Even if you hear very nicely. Caitanya Mahāprabhu could not please everyone. He had to start civil disobedience. Even Gandhi was killed. That is not possible. You cannot please everybody. But you must stick to your own principle, and behave nicely. That's all. All right. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, history.

Prabhupāda: In my honors class, I had history. He was teaching us history.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the standard of Calcutta University, Śrīla Prabhupāda, at the time when Śrīla Prabhupāda was in the University? How was the...

Prabhupāda: Oh, it was nice. Very nice students were coming out.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The moral standard was very good?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We respected our professors like our fathers. The relationship between the student and the professors was very good. I had one Scottish professor, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. He was my nice friend. He was professor of philosophy, psychology. Later on he became vice-chancellor.

Brahmānanda:Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: Calcutta, yes. A very perfect gentleman. Kind-hearted. Sometimes we joked. We were taking this, what is called, peanuts. So the professor was passing. So some of our friends remarked: (Bengali) So he thought that professor did not know Bengali. So immediately he turned: (Bengali). So we became very much ashamed. Yes. So all the professors from foreign countries, they were instructed to learn Bengali language, local language. That was the system. All officers, big officers, educate... (Aside) Good morning. ...big educationists, they were to learn the local language. And they used to learn Bengali. Especially in Calcutta. There was one professor, Mr. Scrimgeour. He was professor of literature, English literature. So while teaching one English literature, he was giving parallel passage from Bankim Candra Chatterjee. Yes. "Your Bankim babu says like this." He used to say like that.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Value of life, everyone has got his own value of life. a drunkard, he has got his value of life. That "When I drink, it is value." Is that morality?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the morality of the drunkard.

Prabhupāda: Therefore everyone has got his own morality. Then what is the standard morality?

Brahmānanda: Yeah. There must be a standard for everyone.

Prabhupāda: That is Ramakrishna mission's morality: yata mata tata patha. Whatever you think, that is your way. Yata mata tata patha.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yata mata tata patha.

Prabhupāda: As many ways you think, that's all right.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is how they define morality.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you make your own morality.

Brahmānanda: That's not standard, though.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I read an article by Śrīla Prabhupāda about sometime in 1935 or 40, early in the Back to Godhead magazine. In the earlier copies, the Prabhupāda writes about the standard of morality in one article.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There everything is very nicely explained.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I wrote one time, standard of morality. (pause) We have got very simple formulas from the statement of śāstras. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Hari is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, abhakta, nondevotee, a person who is not a devotee of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, kuto mahad-guṇāḥ, where is his high qualities? No, no high qualities. In the Bhagavad-gītā also: na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). So we see whether he has surrendered to God. Otherwise, he's a mūḍhaḥ, rascal.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The first one is from Bhāgavatam, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is from Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because I'm conscious.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore your consciousness is being revived. Come to the standard of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you'll be happy. That is our business. His consciousness is being misled by so many ways. Therefore we are trying to give him the standard consciousness, "Come to this point, you'll be happy."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How to prove that the soul is eternal?

Prabhupāda: That is the first lesson. You do not understand? You are a child, now you're a grown up boy. Where is your childhood? Where is that body? Ha? The dead body does not exist but you are existing. That means you're eternal. Body has changed, but you have not changed. Circumstances have changed, but you have not changed. This is the proof of (indistinct). What do you want more? You may remember that I did yesterday these things, today I remember yesterday's activities, but your body of yesterday is not this body. Do you admit or not? As a scientist, the body has changed already. He cannot say that 1973, twelfth May yesterday. He cannot say. It is already changed. But you remember everything of yesterday. That is eternity. The body has changed, but you remember everything. Therefore you are eternal, body's not eternal. This is the proof. Simple proof, even a child can understand. But they'll not understand. That is the difficulty.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in fact, he was telling that "Kṛṣṇa didn't give me all the procedures, steps, how to do the experiment." He was saying like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why shall I give you? You are a rascal, you are against Kṛṣṇa, why Kṛṣṇa will give you facility? If you are against Kṛṣṇa and you want the credit without Kṛṣṇa, that's not possible. You must be submissive first of all. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you all facilities. Just like we dare to face any chemist, any scientist, any philosopher. Why? On the strength of Kṛṣṇa, we believe that "There is Kṛṣṇa. When I shall talk with him, Kṛṣṇa will give give me intelligence." This is the basics. Otherwise, from qualification, standard, they are very much qualified. We are common laymen before them. But how do we challenge them? Because we know. Just like a small child He can challenge a very big man because he knows, "My father is there." He is catching the hand of the father, and he's sure that "Nobody can do anything to me."

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, others are perfect.

Krishna Tiwari: Very imperfect, Swamiji. Very imperfect.

Prabhupāda: No, very perfect. Very perfect.

Krishna Tiwari: Exactly what I'm saying to... Well that's what I'm saying.

Śyāmasundara: What is your standard of perfection?

Krishna Tiwari: What?

Śyāmasundara: What is your standard of perfection?

Krishna Tiwari: My, well my, to understand the law of nature, first thing. Now, when, when scientists have gone to understand the law of nature... (end)

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Devotee: He's going around to everyone.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: Would you like to wash your hands, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I have got. Now you can distribute amongst yourselves. They have been...

Devotee: This is a nice book, Upadeśāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: You have seen it.

Devotee: Yes, it's very nice. (pause)

Śyāmasundara: If one tries to praise the Creator by, directly, with his ability, what, how does he know what to...?

Prabhupāda: There are so many standard prayers.

Śyāmasundara: By his work, I mean.

Prabhupāda: Yes. To glorify God means the glorify the nature also. Just like here is a poem in Brahma-saṁ...

yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-

koṭisv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam

tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.40)

Now, the whole creation is there. Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40). On account of the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, which is called brahma-jyotir... Just like on account of the sunshine, the whole universe is existing. So similarly, there is a shine, bodily shining, what is called brahma-jyotir.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi for some time, a few English words) (break) (Hindi for some time) (break) When the destiny of the people are to be controlled, there must be very, very intelligent man. That is Vedic civilization. There is standard aims and objects on which the people should be trained up. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. Viṣṇur ārādhanam. Worshiping Viṣṇu. This is the ultimate aim. So the whole society is divided into brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa—departmental—and they are trained up. But the aim is viṣṇur ārādhanam. But they have no idea at the present moment. Viṣṇur ārādhanam, he has no knowledge. But the civilization begins on this point. Human being means he's meant for viṣṇur ārādhanam. Otherwise what is the difference between dogs and human beings? The western people, they do not know. They simply think that dog lies down on the floor, on the road... "We have got nice, best apartment. Therefore we are civilized." So that is their defect. They are trying to improve the condition of sleeping, eating. That's all.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But in this material world, even if you become peaceful, does it mean that you are out of suffering? I don't think.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yeah. Well, I've been asking in all these universities, high schools, and all those, all those audiences, "What is the purpose of this so-called modern education? What is the purpose? If so, kindly define this purpose. Have people thought on this?" I just gave a broadcast at Southampton day before yesterday. Nobody, not many people appear to have seriously considered this question. Is it to fly to the moon? Is it to be a food taster or a noise lover? Or is it to build dreams and castles in the air? Or to soak one's self in the whirlpools of kāma, sensuality? What is this meant for? What is our education for? No one appeared... Very, very few people have appeared to ...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no aim of the education. Their only aim is economic development.

Buddhist Monk (1): That's right.

Prabhupāda: And that means a higher standard of sense gratification.

Buddhist Monk (1): The more material doubts people can produce, that's supposed to be the educated person.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): They interpret that they have, the God has created the cattle also for their food.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is... The cattle food is food for the non-civilized man. If you claim to be civilized, you cannot eat.

Buddhist Monk (1): (laughs) Live and let live. That's what I have been asking people wherever I go. They talk of culture, civilization, progress, development, living standards, education, equality, freedom, lots of things. I asked them to define this, and I asked them, "The animals are of two types: the carnivorous and the vegetarian. Of course, the carnivorous looks even fiercer. But where has one found in the forest so many thousands of animals slaughtered and lying at random? But man today, in the name of progress and civilization..."

Prabhupāda: Very, very good. Yes.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yeah. So they have gone, according to me, lower than our animal brothers.

Prabhupāda: Certainly, certainly. Your argument is very good.

Buddhist Monk (1): Of course, it's very very...

Prabhupāda: In the forest, there is no slaughterhouse, although they are carnivorous animals.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Paramahaṁsa: But there's always a chance that they may not as well.

Prabhupāda: That chance is also to you also. Māyā is always there. But our duty should be like that. You become Kṛṣṇa conscious and raise your children to that standard. (indistinct) Just like we are teaching in Dallas. There is nothing extraordinary. The children are there, they're learning how to read, how to write, at the same time rising early in the morning, attending maṅgala-ārātrika, joining in the saṅkīrtana, playing mṛdaṅga, dancing, taking prasādam. (Aside:) That's all right. By such training, automatically they'll be Kṛṣṇa conscious. And then all your duties are complete. If you make him Kṛṣṇa conscious, then all your duty is finished.

Malcolm: Can you make a child Kṛṣṇa conscious without believing yourself?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Haṁsadūta: Can you make a child Kṛṣṇa conscious if you yourself don't believe in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: If you do not believe, if the father does not believe? You mean to say?

Malcolm: If the father does not feel.

Prabhupāda: Yes well, everything is individual. Father is individual and child is individual. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: But there'll be too many today to be associates.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Now it has come to another platform. So anyway, the knights, they are respectable gentlemen of the society, leading men of the society. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for enlightening people to the right standard of understanding the goal of life. Because after this life, after this body is annihilated, we do not know what kind of body we are getting next. We must prepare. Just like you are elevated to the position of lordship. So you had to prepare yourself. Not that this lordship is offered to anyone and everyone. One who is qualified, he is offered this position. Similarly, we should know how we are becoming qualified for the next life. But that education is lacking. There is no such education. In the university or anywhere, nobody thinks, "What we are going to become next life?" But we should be prepared. If, after becoming Prime Minister in this life, or President, like Mr. Nixon, and again, by his activities, he's going to be another animal, oh, that is not very successful proposal. But there is such chance. Because after death, after giving up this body, we are completely under the grip of material nature.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Pradyumna: "Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps, and whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore we are trying to make men like you interested. (Prabhupāda laughs)

Lord Brockway: Yes. Yes and no. I've lived in public life for sixty years. I've been in Parliament. I'm now in the House of Lords. But I don't regard myself as a great man in any sense at all.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Of course, there are degrees, but...

Lord Brockway: And I've never wanted to be in a gov...

Prabhupāda: No great man wants to become great. But because he's great, God helps him to become great.

Lord Brockway: Yes. Well, what I was saying is I've never wanted to be in a government. I've never wanted to have power. I've had certain ideals that I wanted to serve, and just prepared to serve them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Schumacher: I agree with that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can defend your theory but that will not help purification of the society. That will not help. Take it for granted. You can make so many theories but if you remain impure, if you are not God conscious, all these theories will be useless. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathe... (SB 5.18.12). This is simply mental speculation. Mano-rathena, hovering on the mental plane, you can jump from this to that, but that will not solve the problem. Mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ. So we do not act on mental speculation. It may be our credit or discredit. That is different thing. We simply follow the standard policy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, how to become a brāhmaṇa, how to become a kṣatriya, how to become a vaiśya, how to become a śūdra, or how to remain less important than the śūdras. The societies must be divided in different divisions. They should work conjointly... (end)

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. In this way, as the heart becomes cleansed, he revives his quality of goodness. And when he's situated in the quality of goodness, the other two qualities, passion and ignorance, cannot infect him. By this process. Rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. The example is kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. When one is too much affected with the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, passion and ignorance... What is this kāma? Lusty and greediness. These are the symptoms of rajas-tamo-guṇa. So then therefore we see that all people are lusty and greedy. So as soon as he becomes cleansed, come to the standard of goodness, these two qualities cannot affect him anymore. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). One has to take the process. And it is simple process. Simple... And that, that is actually happening, in our practical experience. They say, they say... They are all rascals, fools. They can say anything and everything. Pāgale kim abole chāgale kiṁ na khāoyā. In the Bengali it is said: A madman, what does he not speak? He speaks any nonsense. And a goat, what does he not eat? So if you keep a madman... They are keeping them mad... That is our protest, that why you are keeping all people mad, crazy, nonsense? And you are also teacher, university? They have no knowledge that what is the aim of life.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Professor: Just like Gārgī and... Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gārgī. Etad viditvā yaḥ prayāti sa brāhmaṇaḥ.

Yogeśvara: It's rather remarkable if one takes into account the fact that most of us come from backgrounds which had nothing whatsoever to do with the standards of brahminical culture.

Professor: That's right. Yes, that's...

Yogeśvara: We were, we were steeped in all kinds of bad habits.

Prabhupāda: No, according to Vedic injunction, the Westerners are mlecchas, yavanas. You know better than me.

Professor: Yes.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Professor: And what about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi?

Prabhupāda: I don't take account of these because they are not standard.

Professor: Oh, I see.

Prabhupāda: They are not standard. We are following Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, standard, and they have got their own manufactured way. So we don't recognize them. Our process is evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. What Kṛṣṇa said, the disciplic succession will say the same thing. But they are speaking differently. So therefore we don't take them as bona fide. They are not bona fide. And from external point of view, we have got so many literatures, so many branches, so many devotees, within six years. But they haven't got such thing. Even Ramakrishna Mission. They are working for the last eighty years. And I have worked only for six years. And my result is eighty times more than them. They also acknowledge.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Pradyumna: Prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān.

Prabhupāda: Ah, prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān. This is the... So puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān means heavenly planet. Prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān. You cannot go to the heavenly planet unless you are very pious. So he's promoted in heavenly planet where the duration of life is very long, standard of living is very nice. But there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is that, prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān?

Pradyumna: Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ (BG 6.41).

Prabhupāda: Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ. For a very long time. Because to get life in the heavenly planets means at least ten thousands of years. In their calculation. Their one day is equal to six months. In that way ten thousand years. Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ. What is it? Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ?

Pradyumna: Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41).

Prabhupāda: Then, again they come down to this material world and he takes birth either in a very exalted brāhmaṇa family, śucīnām, or very rich, vaiśya family. After enjoying there, again he's given chance to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. And if he misses, then again he goes down. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says these are all false elevation. If I have to come again back, again I have to accept another lower grade life, then what is the profit? Kṛṣṇa gives His straight understanding, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti: (BG 4.9) You become Kṛṣṇa conscious. After the giving up this body, no more material body either in the heavenly planet or in the lower hellish planet. "You come direct to Me." That is perfection. You should not be attracted by somebody has gone to heavenly planet for ten thousands of years living.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Haṁsadūta: 1966, in New York City. The teachings are standard, the teachings of this movement are standard, coming down from the original source, Kṛṣṇa, the original speaker. So it is very scientific. It's not manufactured. Today's science... Just like psychoanalysis, so many things, they are created recently. And so there are so many experiments and theories changing every day. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is different in that it is the standard science for understanding the self. It's been practiced for hundreds, thousands, thousands years. And it has been proved successful by the ācāryas or the saintly teachers. So the same thing which was practiced many, many hundreds and thousands of years ago is being practiced today, and the same result is being achieved. This is the difference between Kṛṣṇa consciousness and..., Kṛṣṇa conscious science, spiritual science, and material science. The spiritual science requires no speculation or experimentation. But one has to accept it from the right, the authorized source.

Dr. Hauser: Yes. And it was that point I was taking up here, that for some people, accepting things...

Haṁsadūta: Everyone has to accept some, somebody. They either accept you or their mother, their father, somebody. At every moment, some, someone has to be accepted as authority for something. So what is the best authority? This should be the question. If I have to accept some authority, either here or there, then which is the best authority? This should be the point. Are you the best authority or this man or this man or this man...? Or who should be the best authority? The best authority is that authority which is perfect. That is God. God is perfect. So this is our, our, this is the foundation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that God, He is perfect. Whatever He gives as instruction, that should be accepted. But if we don't agree to that, then we have to take instruction from someone else. And that is bound to be imperfect. Isn't it? Because we are working with imperfect senses, seeing, hearing. So whatever our conclusions may be, they're going to imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Because it has began from imperfect. Therefore conclusion must be imperfect.

Dr. Hauser: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But if we begin from the perfect, the conclusion will be perfect. What are the four defects? Explain.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prof. Gombrich: No, I'm afraid I've only been to Presidency.

Prabhupāda: Presidency?

Prof. Gombrich: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the Scottish Churches College is also on the same standard, Presidency College.

Prof. Gombrich: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you are teacher there? No.

Prof. Gombrich: I teach in Oxford, yes.

Prabhupāda: You teach in Oxford?

Prof. Gombrich: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But in India went to visit?

Prof. Gombrich: Yes, I lived for two years in Ceylon.

Prabhupāda: Ceylon?

Prof. Gombrich: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (1): It is God's desire.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is nature's arrangement. And those who are rich... There are richer section when the rice was selling at three rupees per mound, and the richer section is still there when rice is selling, nine rupees a kilo. So they have no eyes because less intelligent. They cannot make equal. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, in the prakṛti there are three modes of material nature. They will be manifested. It is not possible to make everyone of the same standard, the standard must be different. So they are simply spoiling their time to make the whole society on the same status. The communists are trying, the others are trying. That is not possible. So one should not be disturbed with all these superficial low and high places. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,

yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete

puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha

sama-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ

so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate

One is not disturbed with this outwards happiness and distress, he's eligible to become immortal. Saḥ amṛtatvāya. How? (Hindi) Yaṁ hi... (break) ...amṛta, eternal. And that is perfection. And that is going back to home, back to Godhead. But they do not know what is the aim of life. Still, they are leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31), leaders are blind, and they're leading blind men. Therefore there is always disaster, confusion.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is your post? Typing? No.

Banker: She's a clerk in my department.

Prabhupāda: I see. So our philosophy is Bhagavad-gītā. You know Bhagavad-gītā?

Lady: Yes, very little.

Prabhupāda: That is standard. All big, big ācāryas of India.

Banker: Is this the thousand-page book that you're holding?

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So before leaving India, you can become a member. We have got many books, twenty books like that. This is published by MacMillan Company of New York.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Lady: What do you suggest for meditation?

Prabhupāda: We don't find anything in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You should concentrate, meditate in darkness." We take it as bogus. No religious system, even in Christianity, there is no such thing as darkness. Christian churches are very much illuminated. They pray. Prayer is there. The necessity. Why in darkness? That is his invention. Neither in Hinduism, neither in Buddhism, there is such recommendation that "You pray in the darkness." Therefore it is bogus. Not standard. Why darkness? Naturally, if you make this room dark, you will feel sleepy. That is natural tendency.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think there is a lot of politics in it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. As soon as you go against the standard rules and regulations, there must be some motive. That is politics. That is politics. All politicians, they are with motive. They are not for... Now, all these big, big political parties, they are fighting with one another. They are simply trying to keep their post and they are fighting for that. So where is the time for them to think of the general people, how they will be happy? There is no time. It is the Kṛṣṇa conscious people who are actually thinking of others. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava qualification is he is unhappy by seeing others... (break) Let us enlighten them. Otherwise what is the use of working in this old age? (Aside:) Come on. Vaiṣṇava's qualification is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Because without God consciousness, without understanding "What I am, what is God, what is my relationship," everyone shall remain unhappy. There cannot be happiness. Without knowledge of God, nobody can be happy. Superficially they may try, so-called humanitarianism, this ism, that ism. Now, say for these Communists country, they have struggled for the last sixty years. They started from 1917. How many years?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Seventy.

Room Conversation with Indian Guest -- October 4, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means it is always unknown.

Guest (1): Yes, the Lord is... Nobody can limit Lord.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is, that is unknown to you. But according to Bhagavad-gītā, it is not unknown. There is a standard. There is a perfection stage.

Guest (1): As long as I have got body, I can never know God fully.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right, so long you have got the body.

Guest (1): All of our śāstras says...

Prabhupāda: But, you hear me. You have come to take some light. You kindly hear.

Guest (1): Yes. Yes.

Prabhupāda: You were talking on the Bhagavad-gītā. I say on the Bhagavad-gītā. So so long you have got this body, there is no perfection. That's a fact.

Room Conversation with Indian Guest -- October 4, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But Bhagavad-gītā says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Bhagavad-gītā says that if you understand the Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy, janma karma me... First of all, you always remember that whatever we are talking, we are talking on the Bhagavad-gītā, on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, then tyaktvā deham, giving up this body, you'll not have to accept another material body. This is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. But so long you'll accept this body, material body, you'll remain imperfect. There cannot be any perfection. It may be gradation. There are eight million, four hundred forms of life. There is Brahmā, and there is ant also. Both of them are living entities. But the status quo of the ant, and the status quo of Brahmā is not the same, higher consciousness or mental... So they're all in the material world. None of them are perfect. Between Brahmā and ant, there are millions of other living entities, eight million. Not only one million. Millions. 8,400,000 forms of life. They're all imperfect because they have accepted this material body, either Brahmā or ant, but your perfection will come when you do not accept this material body. That is the, I mean to, the destination of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti: (BG 4.9) "After quitting this body, he does not accept any more this material body." This, that means he, he becomes perfect. That is stated in another place. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. Find out this verse. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ (BG 8.15). Mām upetya. Find out this... Now, unless you take some standard book of knowledge, we cannot talk. If you talk whimsically, I talk whimsically, then there will be no end of talk. We have to... Because you told me the other day: "In the Bhagavad-gītā..." That is all right. Here is a standard. Everyone accepts. Now..., You have found it?

Śrutakīrti: Mām upetya punar janma... (BG 8.15).

Room Conversation with Indian Guest -- October 4, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Just see. So four thousand, three hundred crores, that is day. And similarly night. Now this becomes complete twenty-four hours. Similarly one month. Similarly one year. He lives for one thousand, one hundred years. Now calculate.

Śrutakīrti: You have a total here.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Śrutakīrti: You have a total here.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Śrutakīrti: Says, "These hundred years, by earth calculations, total to three hundred and eleven trillion and forty million, and forty million earth years."

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you believe in Bhagavad-gītā, that is different thing. You cannot say all these things. But if you take this also, that also, that is another thing. We have to take a standard. Ācchā. (Hindi) I have got some important engagement with Mrs. Nair. She's the proprietor of the land. So...

Guest (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi ) So you can go and see the temple, ārati. (end)

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Śyāmasundara: No controversy. And this...

Prabhupāda: No, that, "If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, naturally everything will be correct." Just like Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja was Kṛṣṇa conscious. And can, you can read the portion during the reign of Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, how nature was helping. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa. You keep one set of books here. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). "Due to Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's being Kṛṣṇa conscious, everything was going on nicely. So by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, you are on the post of Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. So if you take standard, it will be good for everyone. And so far secular state is concerned, we are actually secular. In this movement, all classes of men are here."

Śyāmasundara: I think, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you'll have to preach to her. Because she won't listen to... If I can just get her to agree to be the chief guest.

Prabhupāda: And accept the book. That is all right.

Śyāmasundara: That's all I can do.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Śyāmasundara: Does that guarantee that he'll become a devotee again?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he had already practiced. So if he, if he remembers, if he's intelligent, that "I've got this nice position, according to śāstra, because I had some good devotional activities in my past life. Now let me finish. I'll not fall down. I have no economic problem. I have got so much facilities. So let me advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." If he gets this... He'll get that sense.

Śyāmasundara: He automatically gets that standard.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hm.

Śyāmasundara: So he must come back to that point again, starting there.

Prabhupāda: Just like you have given. Your children are given the good chance.

Śyāmasundara: Ah yeah.

Prabhupāda: The Sarasvatī's given chance. Now he's, from very childhood, she's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare...

Śyāmasundara: yes.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Floating where. Wherefrom the sky came? They are all nonsense. Simply speculating and consuming cheap money from the government. That's all. This is their business. The government is exacting taxes from the hard-working men, and these rascals are devouring this money. That's all. And making theories. That's all.

Hṛdayānanda: There was one big scandal where they found out all the scientists were just taking money. Even by material standards it was unnecessary. It was a very big scandal.

Prabhupāda: It must be they are scandals. They are after money. That's all. Not after knowledge. And what knowledge they have got? Simply speculating and befooling other fools. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is their business. One blind man is befooling other blind men. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are very much convinced that this earth was gaseous. So there was no life at the beginning.

Prabhupāda: That may be. That may be that. But wherefrom the gas came?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It was just existing.

Prabhupāda: Bhinnā prakṛtiḥ. The answer is given. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhiḥ (BG 7.4). Vāyu, vāyu gas, it came from Kṛṣṇa. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāyu. Vāyu is gas, is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Air.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) No.

Devotee: Maybe that will help them bring some peace.

Devotee (2): But we already have peace.

Hṛdayānanda: The United Nations cannot bring peace either.

Yaśomatīnandana: This is a question of the standard of peace.

Devotees: (discuss among themselves)

Prabhupāda: Then if you say like that, then United Nations is not better than us, you have to accept. If we cannot give peace, and they are not giving peace, then why they are so big organization?

Karandhara: They will say because it is a better organization.

Prabhupāda: They cannot answer. They simply give, they can give simply words, that's all. "United," they're speaking of unity, only flags are increasing. Daily another flag, another flag, another flag, and the flags will never unite. And still they are advertising "United Nations."

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Confusion is not... Chaotic condition, confusion is not proper stage. That is a state of suffering. That is the position at the present moment. Otherwise, why they are fighting, nation to nation, man to man, group to group, community to community, diplomat to dip...? They're simply fighting like cats and dogs. This is not perfect society. Simply ca... They can say dogs. They can simply make barking, "Whowf! Whowf! Whowf! Whowf!" That is not perfect society. Human society should be sober. That is Vedic civilization.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But one should follow the standard morality. When that standard set is lacking or it fails to understand, then people try to speculate their own thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Nobody's following any standard. Just like these Western people, mostly Christians. It is clearly stated in the Bible, "Thou shalt not kill." They're simply killing. Their only business is killing.

Bali Mardana: And divorce.

Prabhupāda: And divorce.

Bali Mardana: It says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

Prabhupāda: So these rascals, how do they claim Christian? Eh? What do you think? They're not even category, in the category of dogs, cats, and they're claiming that "We are follower of Lord Jesus Christ."

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is nonsense. A set of nonsense.

Umāpati: If we ask them what is the basis of their philosophy that they understand Maharaji to be a seer...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Umāpati: ...they have no answer. They have no...

Prabhupāda: That is good question. Yes. On what standard you accept him?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to be cheated.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: People want to be cheated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the society of cheater and cheated.

Prajāpati: Sometimes great souls, they will cheat people also for their own benefit?

Prabhupāda: Uh? But a great soul will never cheat. One who cheats, he's not great soul. He's the menial soul. Soul is not menial or great, but he's covered by māyā.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is their argument. Then what is the standard of that aspect? Just like in the material world we see, somebody richer than others. This is also aspect of material situation. So if one is millionaire, he is better than a person who has got a few coins. So similarly, your realization of God and my realization of God, different. So I may be greater realized than you. What do you say, theologian?

Prajāpati: Well, today, Prabhupāda most of the literature is written on subjects of death of God, an eclipse of God, the fact that the people in general, it's a secular society and no one is even discussing God.

Prabhupāda: That means they have failed. After discussing when they could not find out actually what is God, they have given up the idea. Failure.

Prajāpati: They think of it as actually a maturity. "We needed to talk about God when we were infants, and now we are advanced."

Prabhupāda: So maturity, you must give what is that standard God, if it is mature. Mature means you must give the real standard. That is mature. But if nobody of you can give the what is the real standard, then how it is mature? Bali Mardana Prabhu, what do you think? Mature means the final conclusion. Just like in scientific theory. All the scientists come into conclusion, "Yes, this is the..."

Bali Mardana: It's just an excuse because they don't know.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, they don't know. That's it.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Mature atheists, yes.

Karandhara: Even though... at most they say God just means goodness or truth.

Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is that goodness. They have no knowledge what is the standard of goodness. Somebody is cutting the throat; he's also good. And somebody is very sober; he is also good. So what is the standard of goodness?

Karandhara: That's what they argue about, write books on. Mostly they make vague references and emotional pleas for goodness and honesty.

Prabhupāda: No, what is that honesty and what is that goodness? They must give some definition.

Prajāpati: You've summed it up very nicely, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you call them just jugglers of words.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is scientist? Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Here Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, what is the standard of goodness according to your scientific view?

Hṛdayānanda: They say, "Just don't... If someone does what he likes and doesn't hurt anyone else, that's good."

Karandhara: They don't do that.

Hṛdayānanda: "If I just do my thing for God but I don't hurt anyone, that's good."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have no definition for standard of goodness.

Prabhupāda: No. No, no many times they...

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have no definition for standard of goodness.

Prabhupāda: No. No, no many times they...

Hṛdayānanda: Many times they say that...

Prabhupāda: They have no standard. But we have got definition of God. That is the difference. What is our definition?

Satsvarūpa: Supreme controller.

Prajāpati: That person who is complete with all six opulences...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prajāpati: ...in total fullness.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is God.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Devotees are beginning more and more, Śrīla Prabhupāda, under your instruction, to enter into politics. But the political leaders, they will claim, "Well you have no experience. How can you be qualified to...?"

Prabhupāda: No, we have got experience. If there is a good man, he'll do, he'll act very nice. That we have got experience. Just like if a man is honest, you can trust him. This is our experience. So similarly, if the leaders be good according to this standard, then the whole human society will be happy. This is our propaganda. We are not after the post, but we have to disclose this rascaldom, that "All these rascals, animals, fools, they are taking the post of leader, and you are suffering repeatedly, but you have no sense that 'How we can be happy with this Nixon and company's leadership?' " So therefore we want to disclose the fact, that's all. We have no ambition. Just like we are brāhmaṇas. We have nothing to do, but according to Vedic civilization, the brāhmaṇas guides the kṣatriyas how to rule. So our position is to reform the politicians. We are not going to compete with them, we have no business, neither we have time. But because people are suffering—we want everyone to be happy-therefore we want to reform these rascals. That is our goal. What we shall do taking part in politics? We have no business. But our real aim is how people will be happy. That is our real aim. So these rascals are leading, misleading. Therefore we want to check them. Is that all right? Is that all right?

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Veda, this word, Sanskrit word, it means perfect knowledge. Otherwise, there is no way to have perfect knowledge. There must be some source of perfect knowledge. That is Veda. For example, we... Just like cow dung. Cow dung is the stool of an animal. So in the Vedic principle, if you touch the stool of an animal, even your own stool, you become impure, you have to take bath. But the Vedas says, "The stool of cow is pure." And we accept that because Vedic injunction. And if you analyze, it is full of antiseptic properties, although it is stool. So by argument, one will say, "How is that? Sometimes you say that stool is impure, and again you say this stool is pure." But that is fact. Similarly, if we accept Vedic injunction, we save so much time for so-called research work. That is the standard knowledge. So every knowledge is there in the Vedas. There are so many Vedas. Even for our ordinary dealings, just like Āyur-veda. Āyur-veda means medical science. Similarly, Dhanur-veda, military science. Similarly, Jyotir-veda, jyotis, the astronomical science. And those who are, mean, accustomed with Vedic knowledge, it is so nice and, I mean to say, perfect that... Take, for example, that Āyur-veda, medical science. Their process is that this body, the physiological condition, is depending on three things, tri-dhātu, kapha-pitta-vāyu: mucus, bile and air. And the air is felt by the pulse beating.

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So similarly, when one is God conscious, if he kills animal, that means he has no sense of God consciousness. He has no sense of God. That is the test. So our propaganda is that you make people God conscious. Then all good qualities will come. Instead of trying to qualify man in so many ways—"You don't become thief, you don't become murderer, you don't become this, don't become this, don't become intoxicant"—simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, he becomes everything, by one stroke. That is our propaganda, that if one becomes God conscious, then he is becoming perfect, not necessarily, materially and spiritually, both. And that is happening practically. Now these boys, these girls, they are Europeans, Americans. They were accustomed to so many bad habits and according to our standard, and now they have given up. They have no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, no intoxication, even up to smoking or drinking tea. Yes. We don't allow our students... Not allow. They become accustomed. Once I say, "Don't do this," they agree. They agree immediately. Intoxication. There were many students, they were habituated to this nowadays intoxican... Immediately gave up. And your government is making so much propaganda to give up this intoxication. They are failure. So a little God consciousness helps so much. And what to speak of when one is perfectly God conscious? Then he's perfect man. Therefore a devotee is not of this material world. He's in the spiritual world. He's above this material world. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26).

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They will change so many times, because they're rascals. They have no standard program. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī has given his verdict in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu,

śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-

pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

(Brs. 1.2.101)

Any kind of spiritual advancement without reference to the Vedas, Purāṇas, and śāstra, it means simply disturbance. Utpātāyaiva kalpate.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But another rascal will be victim of that tricks. Why shall I accept him as God?

Karandhara: Besides, they're insignificant tricks.

Prabhupāda: Insignificant tricks. So if gold is the standard of becoming God, then there is gold mine. So who has created the gold mine, I shall accept Him God. Why shall I you. If gold is the standard, why a little chaṭāka(?) of...? We are not so fools. You can make this trick for other fools, not to us.

Yaśomatīnandana: I told his mahatma, his main disciple... He says that "Actually, book is not important," he says, "but experience is important." And I said, "Yes, there is experience. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness experience by which you feel..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Book means experience. Book means experience, not rascaldom. What is book? A scientific book means one scientist who has experienced, he is writing book. So book means experience. Without book, where is experience?

Yaśomatīnandana: So he says that "You take the knowledge. You see the light, and you take the knowledge from Guru Maharaji."

Prabhupāda: But you have taken the knowledge, why cannot you describe it. That means although you have got your Guru Maharaja, still you are in darkness. So what is the use of this Guru Maharaja? You are in darkness because you cannot explain. You're asking me to go to Guru Maharaja. But if you are enlightened, why you cannot explain? Therefore you are in darkness. They are useless as guru. You have not... He's a garu. He's garu.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. In other words, to tell the public that "You should elect God-conscious leaders to have a better society."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is our propaganda, that "This is the standard of leadership. So if you elect first-class leader, then your government will be first-class. But if you elect some rogues and thieves, drunkards, then how you can expect good government?" This is natural. After all, democracy means the public elect. The public does not know how to distinguish the rogues and thieves. Therefore the rogues and thieves take the advantage of it and, somehow or other, and take vote and sit on the presidential chair. That is difficulty. Just like our propaganda is... We are not making any propaganda in the beginning, that "Stop this cow slaughter." We are educating people, "Don't eat meat." If people become educated, automatically the slaughterhouse will be closed. This is our propaganda. "Don't drink." So if people give up drinking, automatically the drinking business will be closed.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That kind of signboard will not help you. If you actually believe in God, then try to understand what is God. Otherwise how you can believe? If you do not know the person in whom you have to trust, how you can trust Him? Is it clear or not? I say, "Trust in Him," but if I do not know that man, how I can trust? You must explain that "This man is in this way trustworthy." Otherwise what is the meaning of my trust? This science should be understood, what is God and what is trust. That you discuss thoroughly, threadbare. Otherwise how you will be able to preach? Ask all questions. I will answer. But you must be thoroughly conversant that there is need of God and everyone must trust in God. This is the standard of civilization. God is there. Without God, there cannot be anything existing. This is first point. And we must trust in God. Those who are speaking, "In God we trust," at least they believe that there is God. Now, where is God, how He is living, what He is doing, this must be known. Just like in your America, there is need of a president. But those who are advanced in American history, they must know what is that president, what is his position, what is the constitution. That is, means perfect knowledge must be there about God, and perfect knowledge how to trust Him. This is now required. Otherwise the world is going to... Not that theologicians' speculation on God. First thing is, there is God. Now, how people can be convinced that there is God? Tell me. Speak.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everybody is saying, not only politicians, but everybody is saying that we are degrading. Moral standard is degrading. But nobody acts. That is the difficulty.

Prabhupāda: So it is our duty to help them. Those who are... Just like here is an opportunity. Go, see them immediately, the person. It is our duty. (break) Sometime I can go and see. Who is the senator, local?

Karandhara: I'm not sure.

Prabhupāda: Find out and arrange some meeting. I shall go personally.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How many senators here in California?

Karandhara: Two per state. (break)

Prabhupāda: As we know about God, nobody knows in the world. That is a fact. Any person we can challenge that he has no clear idea, what is God, how to contact God, how to... Nobody knows. (break)

Prajāpati: ...a vague notion that they should be serving God, but they do not know how or what will please God.

Prabhupāda: Vague notion must be there because we have got relationship with God, eternal. So that is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Nitya-siddha. It is eternally a fact that we are servant of God, but we have forgotten this. So that has to be revived by this śravaṇa-kīrtana, by hearing, chanting. This is the process. Otherwise, the relationship is already there. It is not to be created. It is already there.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Any... It must be value. According to the market price, it must be value. Whatever it may be. Gold is taken, because gold is the most valuable metal. A small piece of gold, it can carry two hundred dollars. But if I give you iron, then you have to bring another, what is called, bus, to carry it. (laughter) So therefore gold standard is accepted everywhere. There is a standard price of gold, so when I pay you money, it must be, carry the value in gold. That's all. Then there is no inflation. The people want to be cheated, and people cheat. That's all.

Bahulāśva: In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Prabhupāda, you say that Kali became gold standardized.

Prabhupāda: That is another point. That one who has gold, he can purchase these four kinds of sinful activities: meat-eating, gambling, intoxication, illicit sex. If you have money, you can get illicit sex from big, big quarters. Is it not?

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The sinful activities have increased because the world has produced too much wealth. Because they can purchase sinful activities. And that is being increased by inflation. False money I have got, and with that false money I can purchase all this illicit sex, wine, intoxication, and... It is just like nowadays, bank is giving you a card, "Americard..." What is that?

Karandhara: Charge card. Bank Americard.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...accepting a leader, one has to consider what is the position of the leader. They do not take such account. Now they calculate if the leader is very cunning, then he is qualified. They think that politics means cheating, cunning, bluffing. That is good qualification. Lloyd George, sometimes before he came, he said, "Consistency in politics is the qualification of an ass." He must be inconsistent. And here, this is defense. Tasya vartamānasya. How he is situated (break) ...as it was everywhere, especially in India, that if one is not God conscious, he is a third-class rascal. That standard is now gone. Now to become God conscious, to talk of God, is a business of primitive fools. They think like that. Is it not?

Prajāpati: Yes. They say they are realistic and we are not realistic.

Prabhupāda: Who is realistic? The rascals?

Prajāpati: They think that people who believe in God are not realistic.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And what is the realistic?

Satsvarūpa: To work in social reform or politics is realistic.

Prabhupāda: Reform means that continuously reform? Then where is perfection?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have no standard.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh. And what is the realistic?

Satsvarūpa: To work in social reform or politics is realistic.

Prabhupāda: Reform means that continuously reform? Then where is perfection?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have no standard.

Prabhupāda: No standard. What is the standard of reform, that they do not know. Wherefrom the swan came?

Satsvarūpa: Kṛṣṇa.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When the facilities are there...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prajāpati: (break) ...from Rūpānuga Mahārāja stating that six devotees around the country now will be running for political offices, hopefully just to inject Kṛṣṇa consciousness into the political arena.

Prabhupāda: He is one of them?

Prajāpati: No, no. Not Rūpānuga Mahārāja. I am one of them in this area, here.

Prabhupāda: So which post you are going to contest?

Prajāpati: United States Congress.

Morning Walk -- January 23, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Bad condition, good condition, that is another thing. But you get it. You get it. Bad condition, good condition, that is my consideration, but things are available. Even the best apartment in India, that is not a good apartment for America. This is simply my mental concoction: "This is good; that is bad." I am thinking, "It is the best;" another may think, "Oh, it is lowest." The hog is thinking stool is very nice food, and I am thinking, "What is this nonsense thing?" So "best" and "good", it is simply mental concoction, it has no value. Just like these western people, what is their ultimate standard of best, nobody knows. Nobody knows. Just like hundred years before, there was no skyscraper building, but now even best skyscraper building is not best. So where is the standard of best and... It is all mental concoction.

Sudāmā: Just like in New York, at one time the Empire State Building was the biggest; now they have built two buildings that are the biggest in the world now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now someday it will be lowest.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, already in Chicago they're building one, a Sears building.

Bali Mardana: Bigger.

Prabhupāda: So what is the standard of best and lowest. There is no standard. This is called māyā.

Morning Walk -- January 23, 1974, Hawaii:

Bali Mardana: They have no Absolute.

Prabhupāda: No. They have no idea. Mental speculators, they are no good. (wind noise) Mental speculator means harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathena (SB 5.18.12), manorathena by the mental plane, airship, he's simply hovering. They have no standard.

Bali Mardana: So a devotee does not have to cogitate too much. Whatever satisfies Kṛṣṇa, that is best.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Kṛṣṇa is best. That's all. And whatever is done for Kṛṣṇa, that is best. That's all. We have got a standard; therefore we are satisfied. "Even in distressed condition, because Kṛṣṇa has given me distress, so-called distress, it is not distress. So this is all right." Because here, distress or happiness, they are simply mental concoction. Dvaite bhadra... I am in the material existence—that is my distress. That distress has to be removed, not this temporary distress or happiness.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Body, that... If...

Dr. Patel: But that, Kṛṣṇa's body is not that body.

Prabhupāda: Not only, not only guru. Anyone who is spiritually advanced, he has no more material body.

Dr. Patel: That's... From higher stand point of view.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if you, if the guru is in the lower standard, then how he becomes guru?

Dr. Patel: No, that guru who knows that he has no real material body, he's beyond the body consciousness, that is right.

Prabhupāda: No, no! Even the material body's there...

Dr. Patel: Guru thinks so, but what about this...

Prabhupāda: Even the material body is there, still he's to be taken as spiritual. That is the philosophy. The example is given: just like you have got an iron stick. You put it in the fire, and it becomes warm. And when it is red-hot, it is no more iron stick. It is fire. Do you accept this?

Dr. Patel: I accept it.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, Baba Rāma. (Hindi) (break)

Guest: ...that's the last time I saw you. From time to time I see Baba Rāma.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we have got one hundred and two branches. Mexico City, we have got. I have been there. I forget the name of the street. Very nice center. Indian standard. Mexico City building almost Indian standard.

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And people are also almost Indian standard.

Guest: Well, Mexico and India are exactly same, opposite side of the world, like this.

Prabhupāda: Anti-point.

Guest: Yes. And, uh, some, there's a few similarities in the religion, I think, because they have a fearful goddess like Mahā-kālī.

Prabhupāda: Worship Mahā-kālī?

Guest: Like Mahā-kālī, yes, very fearful, you know. She's, er, her head comes from two serpent's heads.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached after, after...

Prabhupāda: Guru more mūrkha, guru more mūrkha dekhi, karila śāsana (CC Adi 7.71). "My Guru Mahārāja has chastised Me, considering Me a fool number one." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, guru more mūrkha dekhi. "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a first-class mūrkha, fool. And therefore he has chastised Me." That is the standard of guru and śiṣya. A guru... And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, lālane bahavo doṣāḥ. If you pat, there are so many bad things. Lālane bahavo doṣās tāḍane bahavo guṇāḥ. And if you chastise, there are so many good qualities. Tasmāt putraṁ ca śiṣyaṁ ca taḍayet.

Dr. Patel: Na tu lalayet.

Prabhupāda: Na tu lalayet. Therefore either son or disciple, you must always chastise him, not pat him, "Oh, you are very good boy." "You are nothing. You are doing nothing." That is the business of the guru, to find out fault.

Dr. Patel: Don't spare the rod.

Prabhupāda: Although there is no fault, the guru's business is to: "Where is his fault?" That is guru's business. Tasmād taḍayet na tu lalayet.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Unhygienic. They, they make dogs sleep in their bed.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Dr. Patel: On their legs and all that thing. And what not? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...standard. Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra...

Dr. Patel: That is the best medicine.

Prabhupāda: That is the best medicine.

Dr. Patel: But sometimes augmentary medicine also is necessary.

Prabhupāda: Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ sa bāhyābhyantara-śuciḥ. Either take this medical or chant twenty-four hours Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: And don't eat.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: I... I chastised them by asking them to starve for one day. So they... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...take bath in the ocean?

Yaśomatīnandana: No, drinking water.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...he was received by Nehru? Eh?

Dr. Patel: Might have. All astronauts, they have got no sex desire. All of them. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...still asiddha... So do you mean to say by avoiding sex life one becomes siddha?

Dr. Patel: That is what they do, but that is what...

Prabhupāda: That is your standard?

Dr. Patel: ...as far as sex is concerned, they are siddhas.

Prabhupāda: Then impotents are all siddhas. (laughter) All the impotent persons, they're all siddhas.

Dr. Patel: That is, in a way, they are.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Dr. Patel: Niḥspṛha-cetanaṁ jagat...

Guest (1): No, those have controlled their sex intercourse are...

Prabhupāda: No. Siddhas means in spite of agitation, he's not agitated. That is siddha. That is siddha.

Dr. Patel: But in spite of agitation of their wives, they are not agitated.

Prabhupāda: It is simply forceful negation.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Śāstra can say...

Dr. Patel: Some nonsense śāstras are there, who can say...

Prabhupāda: But that is not śāstra. Why you are accepting that śāstra? (laughter) He's nonsense. If he accepts something nonsense śāstra, he becomes nonsense. Our plea is let us learn from the standard book, Bhagavad-gītā, and study, not bring anything else. That will give us proper guidance.

Dr. Patel: (break) ...that is completely verse.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I said that in the Vedas there are so many injunctions for different men, because the population, the sattva, rajo, tamo-guṇa, some of them are śūdras, some of them are kṣatriyas, some of them are vaiśyas, some of them are brāhmaṇa; therefore different ways of inducing them is there. But because something is there for inducing the śūdras in the Vedas, you cannot say, "No, this is not required." That is also required, for the śūdras, not for you.

Indian man (4): No, but then he...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vedas means helping everyone. Traiguṇya-viṣayā vedāḥ. Traiguṇya-viṣayā vedāḥ.

Indian man (3): It is the māyā.

Prabhupāda: By killing, yes. Nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. Your aim should be to go above this qualities of material.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: When we, when you find vibhūtimat sattvaṁ, a very powerful man, a powerful elephant, you should, you know that "There is Kṛṣṇa. This power is Kṛṣṇa."

Dr. Patel: This is standard nyāya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Sar:

yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ

śrīmad ūrjitam eva vā

tat tad evāvagaccha tvaṁ

mama tejo-'ṁśa-sambhavam

Prabhupāda: So where is the difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa? (laughs) Every moment you can remember Kṛṣṇa. Every moment you can see Kṛṣṇa, provided you have got eyes. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Santaḥ. So you have to become a santaḥ, perfect santa. Then you'll see Kṛṣṇa always.

Mr. Sar: Jīvanaṁ sarva-bhūteṣu tapaś cāsmi tapasviṣu.

Dr. Patel: The very life of every individual is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Italian Man (1): Are you thinking of formal education now?

Prabhupāda: Any education. You train a child to the standard of that education and he will develop his intelligence. A child who does not know what is what, the father says "This is... My dear child, it is watch." Once, twice, thrice, you call, "Watch, watch, watch," he learns, "This is watch." Jaya, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi, aside) So one has to awaken the intelligence. So that supreme intelligence is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When one comes to the point of supreme intelligence, that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a rose flower, when it comes to the full blooming stage, it is very beautiful, fragrant, like that. So when a living entity comes to the understanding of his constitutional position, what he is actually, and acts like that, that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is full development. That is called buddhi-yogam. Buddhi is there, intelligence is there, and when it is fully developed for understanding Kṛṣṇa, that is called buddhi-yogam. Yes. Buddhi-yogam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is described, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti. Buddhi-yogam means the intelligence, but... Don't come near. The intelligence which gets the living entity back to home, back to Godhead. That is called buddhi-yogam. Any yoga system means connecting link with the Supreme. When we speak of buddhi-yogam, that is the ultimate yoga. That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata antar-ātmanā (BG 6.47). All different types of yoga practice, the most important and topmost yoga practice is to think of Kṛṣṇa always within oneself. That is being practiced, Hare Kṛṣṇa. The topmost yoga system. (break) You are experienced. Try to understand this philosophy and give it to your country. Your country is a most important country in Europe. Roman civilization.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. It is very cold.

Dr. Patel: No, no, not in... I mean in summer.

Prabhupāda: Even in summer it is not possible.

Girirāja: (reading:) "...cannot safely walk a city street or sleep without fear of burglars and the government has fallen far short of the actual standard of a legitimate administration." (break)

Prabhupāda: We are criticizing strongly in our paper. (break) ...command a position. If you manufacture government like that, it will never be capable.

Girirāja: "But it's said in all authentic, revealed scriptures, wherein it is declared that the purpose of civilized human life is to live together in peace and harmony so that everyone can advance progressively in spiritual life." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...purpose of life. But they do not know what is the purpose of life. They have taken the idea of cats and dogs, simply sense gratification. Now, where, how there will be good government. (break) ...all leniency to the Mohammedans to get vote. That's a fact. (break) Mahābhārata, anywhere, or Rāmāyaṇa, you'll never find a woman is elected on the topmost post.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: And the widow with all her virtues.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...days greatest politician. Viśvāso naiva kartavyaḥ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca. So our present head of the state is both woman and diplomat. That's all. (break)

Girirāja: "...pursuit of human culture are not possible. The government, by being weak and impotent, has thus failed to maintain the standard of civilized culture."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere. Simply rogues. They want money. That's all. They do not want anything.

Dr. Patel: I think Rāma-rājya was the real democracy.

Prabhupāda: Rāma-rājya was not democracy.

Dr. Patel: No, it was a sort of democracy because it happened that his wife, on seeing ordinary menials...

Prabhupāda: Why king should be under any criticism? (breaks) There is a jalebi seller. He is the medium of bribing police. He has got ten lakhs of rupees, ordinary jalebi seller.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Guest (6): So you mean the lack of spiritual leadership has driven us to this state of affairs?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because there have been so many. Just like Bhagavad-gītā, it is standard book. The so-called spiritual leaders, they give different interpretation. Why different interpretation? One interpretation is there. Anyone can understand. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). It is plain thing, Kṛṣṇa says that "You always think of Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. "You become My devotee, you just worship Me, offer your obeisance." And Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa personally." What right he has got to say like that? Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava. Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." This is going on. Just see. He is scholar, he is a philosopher. Even Gandhi says that "There was no Kṛṣṇa; it is all mythology." Then? How people will learn it? If Kṛṣṇa becomes mythology, the Bhagavad-gītā becomes imagination and anyone can interpret in any way. Then where is the teaching?

Guest (7): Are the teachings themself spiritual?

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So one must be intelligent enough to see God. Now, the bird I do not see, but I am hearing the sound. So one must know there is a nice bird. Because the varṇāśrama-dharma is lacking, nobody is being educated as a brāhmaṇa. They have lost all knowledge. Suppose in the society there is nobody educated as engineer; you don't find any engineers. So who will understand this? Unless one becomes brahminical qualified, they cannot understand. Therefore a class of men must be there, trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then the understanding of God consciousness will be there. Otherwise finished. So now this rascal civilization, they are simply creating śūdras. What they will understand? Simply śūdras. Factories and this, for technology. And because they are getting money, they are thinking, "Now we have got everything." On the money standard. Actually they have no knowledge. Just like we find a expert electrician and we pay him sufficiently, say hundred dollars, but does it mean that he has knowledge? He is expert in that śūdra's work, that's all. That does not mean, because he has got money, he has got all knowledge. But people accept, "Oh, he has money. His life is successful. He has got all knowledge." That's all. And if you go, if you speak about God, "Oh, these men are beggars. They have made a profession." That's all. So if the society does not accept the proposition of Kṛṣṇa, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13), they will suffer because the God consciousness will be lost.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Well, people are now shameless, you see? They are being kicked in so many ways. We are giving the prescription, "Here is the remedy," but they are not taking to it. But they will take it. Some of them will take it, provided you remain also ideal. If you become also degraded, then who will take it? Ideal character, ideal behavior, ideal preaching. People will appreciate. (break) ...pure character or position, people will take, in any condition. There may be revolution or no revolution. They will take it. (break) ...that our movement is actually good. They will take in any condition. That standard we must maintain. Somebody... Yes, Balavanta, when he was speaking against smoking, one candidate—he was important man—he was smoking. Immediately he wanted to hide. (laughter) So immediate effect was there. He understood that "Yes, this is bad habit." So people will take it, any condition, provided you are ideal. Āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. He teaches others by behaving Himself. "Example is better than precept." If you cannot rise early in the morning, then how can you ask others to rise early in the morning? What is the effect? There is no effect. We have got business early in the morning, to attend maṅgala ārati. And if you sleep yourself and teach others, so who will take it? (break) ...we have introduced.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, there is.

O'Grady: If you are told that Mr. Nixon is the bona fide spiritual master, what do you do?

Prabhupāda: No, we have got standard. Who is bona fide spiritual master? Just like... The one line, you have heard only one line, that bona fide spiritual master, "You must approach the bona fide spiritual master." But who is bona fide spiritual master? Then that next question. That is also answered, that bona fide spiritual master means tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum eva abhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). This is the qualification of bona fide spiritual master. What is that? Śrotriyam. Śrotriyam means who has heard from the bona fide spiritual master. A bona fide spiritual master is he who has taken the message from bona fide spiritual master. This is the... Just like a medical man is he who has taken the knowledge of medical science from another medical man.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Well, I don't know whether these accusations have been proved in regards to Nixon. They may be true.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I think they have. What are the charges against Nixon?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Certainly he already... It all depends on the standards that we want to have for a president. In other words, he has not been convicted, but he has accepted, himself, certain charges, that he has lied and he has tried to save his men, and therefore he has lied, and he has evaded taxes.

Richard Webster: Well, I don't know about that, you see. I'm only...

Prabhupāda: No, there have been so many charges against president Nixon. So no, whatever it may be, we are not concerned. But this is the Vedic principle, that the king or the executive head of the state, the brāhmaṇa and the public leader must be very clean. Otherwise society will be spoiled. That is the injunction.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: At the present moment there is all over the world... We are touring all over the world. It is very hard to find out ideal class of men. That is the defect. In the Vedic culture the ideal class of men were the brāhmaṇas. Their qualification was: truthful, self-controlled, mind and the senses, and then tolerant, very simple life, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. These are ideal character. But such men are not available at the present moment. So therefore the social idealism is defective. Just like in your body, there are four divisions. The head, the arm, the belly and the leg. If the head is spoiled then you are a madman. In spite of possessing hands and bellies and legs, you cannot work properly. So at the present moment the heads are spoiled. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. People, advanced in education, still they are inimical, one man to another. If you are passing on in the street, the gentleman's house there is a signboard, "Beware of the dogs. Don't come in," because he cannot believe anyone. You go to the airport, any high-class standard man. They search out the pocket. So nobody is believable. So this is the result of modern education. You cannot find out an ideal character man.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: What civilization there is comes chiefly from the television, I'm afraid. I mean the public opinion is made by the television.

Atreya Ṛṣi: The television today is setting up the standard for the civilization, for today's civilization.

Richard Webster: But they talk about nothing but name war (?) and...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) pictures.

Richard Webster: It's much easier. They're producing more television sets (indistinct)

Yogeśvara: It's a great science. My mother is an executive in a public relations firm. Her business is to show products, goods, to people that otherwise they have no need for and to convince them that there is some value. It's a very big industry, especially in the United States, public relations, advertising. It's very psychological too. They use all kinds of psychological techniques for inducing people to take things they have no need for.

Prabhupāda: All right but thing is that after all our prime necessity is food. So why people are not engaged to produce food?

Richard Webster: Well, in Italy they don't like to work on the land any more. They all want to live in town.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the defect. That is the defect.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 26, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...devotees, they do not want any opulence of this material world. They are, what is called, pessimistic. They do not give any value to the opulence of this material world. And it is very good philosophy. But fools and rascals, they are attracted. Now, these buildings were constructed, very highly intellectual men undoubtedly, but they enjoyed, say, for hundred years. That's all. Then their bodies changed, and nobody knows what kind of body he has got. This is materialism. Suppose if you are offered some very nice comfortable life, and if you know that "Next life I am going to become a dog," would you be happy? But they have no information that what next body... Body, he has to take another body. He cannot enjoy. Whatever he has created, he cannot enjoy for good. That is not possible. He has to leave it. Just like these Romans. They have left. They constructed so big, big building just to enjoy, but they had to leave it by nature's force and accept another body. That they do not know. They are satisfied, "Never mind, I accept the next life a dog's body. Now let me enjoy this, say, twenty-five years or fifty years, that's all." This is their philosophy. No future. "Trust no future, however pleasant." In India, those who are interested in spiritual life, they take sannyāsa. Everybody sannyāsa, bābājī. Rūpa Gosvāmī gave up his service, everything, and became no possessions voluntarily. Big, big kings, Bharata Mahārāja... To practice that "I have no more interest in anything material." (break) ...introduction of my Guru Mahārāja that sannyāsīs and preachers may use big, big buildings, motorcars and..., just to give the information to the western world. Because they, if you ask them, that "You become a mendicant, possessionless," still, they are not very much interested. Because they see our dress, our living condition is not very equal to their standard, they do not like. Is it not? Yes. So just to give these Westerners facilities at least to understand this philosophy, this method was accepted by Guru Mahārāja, to live in nice building, to have cars, to use everything for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, nobody would take.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: That you cannot do. Why don't you see? Why don't you make up others who are already suffering? What you are doing for them? They do not like to take it. Even your proposal, "You come, live in a nice house," they will not take it. Then? What you will do? You are making arrangement for good purposes, for good standard of living, but others, they will not accept your proposal. I have given the example, hippies. Let the Communists come and ask them, "Why you are living in this way? Come on. We shall give you." Why communists? Their government is offering, "Why you are lying on the street? Come on. Live in a nice house." They will not accept it. What you will do, that?

Nitāi: That is just like the example you gave the other day about the man sitting under the tree. Someone comes up to him and says, "Come, work hard. You will enjoy." The hippies, their only business is trying to enjoy. They are just absorbed in sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. The hippies' philosophy is that "After all, we have to enjoy sense. So we are getting free, freedom. We can have sense enjoyment, sex life on the street. Why shall I work for the same purpose? We have already got it. You civilized man, you so-called civilized, advanced civilized man, for your sex life, you have to go to the skyscraper building, and we can do it on the street, on the park. We have got better facilities. Why shall I accept your philosophy." They will say, they say like that. (break) ...agree to the fact that they have no knowledge. Everything they are doing whimsically without any purpose. (break) ...from their side. You have to find out, make research.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Haihaya: If we have a world day every month, fasting world day. If we can fast, all the world can fast, all inhabitants of the world...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you cannot expect that the whole world will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible. You keep your standard. Don't be bewildered by these rascals. That is our proposal. We should not be misled by this rascal philosophy. We shall stick to our own philosophy. That is required. Because we know all their philosophy are defective. That is not perfect. So why shall I be misled by their philosophy? We shall stick to our own principle, Kṛṣṇa philosophy. That's all. Everyone should stick to the right philosophy. That is human sense. Not be biased and carried away by some whimsical way.

Satsvarūpa: Their philosophy is very appealing because they begin, they say...

Prabhupāda: That is because people are fools, rascals. Therefore it is very...

Satsvarūpa: They say, "Look, all these people are starving and these people have all the money. Let us make it equal. And the people become slave..."

Prabhupāda: But that is not being done. Therefore I said... I go to their country. "Why in your country there is inequality? Why in your country?" That was my point. "Why you have made a class of men as manager and a class of men as worker?" Nobody wants to be worker.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: My organization is in fact concerned with the well being of all four classes. It is not only with the laboring man. It's also primarily with the producers, but also with the managers, leaders, and to a certain extent also with the protective classes in that we are interested in the well-being of policemen, hospital personnel, doctors, nurses, that kind of social security workers, and that kind of person. We are interested in the intelligentsia in that they are professional workers, often independent, whose professional rights and obligations need to be safeguarded and codified. That's a standard laid down in the form of international labor standards. One of our activities, not perhaps now the most important, but one of the first.

Prabhupāda: No. My point was, point is that... Because one is fourth-class, therefore we are not interested in that—it is not my point. My point is that there are four classes of men: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. And our point of view, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for taking care of all classes of men. Although by natural division there are four classes of men, first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class, but the example we generally give, just like in your body there are four divisions: the head division, the arm division, the belly division and the leg division, but all of them meant for keeping the body fit. And body is meant for giving supply to everyone of them. But if you comparatively make division, the head comes the first division, the arms comes the second division, the belly comes the third division, and the legs comes the fourth division. So we should organize in such a way that all the classes of men in the society be happy, not that we simply take care of the head. The same example: In your body it is not your business just simply take care of the head or the legs. No. All these different divisions of your body, you take care. That is healthy body. When your brain is working nicely, when your arms are working nicely, your abdomen is working nicely and legs are working nicely, then you are fit. If you simply take care of the legs, not of the brain, that is not a good healthy body.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: Perhaps to make it clear for you, one of the natural results of this system is that a man that might be considered today impoverished, as you were mentioning for example some of the problems, a poor man, by our standards, is not necessarily poor if he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. For example, in the Vedic culture, we are learning that a man is considered to be wealthy if he simply has a small patch of land and a cow and God consciousness. Because his God consciousness will lead him to be satisfied by growing his own foods, taking milk from the cow. This is wealth, according to Vedic standards.

Prabhupāda: Therefore cow is specially recommended, go-rakṣya, because very important animal to the society. If those who are meat-eaters, they can eat the hogs and dogs, they can eat. The Vedic injunction is not prohibiting them. If you actually... Actually, a human being does not require to eat meat. He has got many other substitutes. But still, if he wants to eat, let him eat the less important animals. Just like dog, hog. From the social point of view it has no utility. But why killing cows? It is delivering such a nice nutritious food, milk. Not only milk. According to Vedic system, the cow is so important, even the urine, even the stool, of cow is important.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is concocting some ideas, and they are going on as different organization. That's all. No standard idea. The standard idea is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that cows should be given protection, go-rakṣya. Who is following this? Everyone is making plan how to kill cows in a more scientific way. This is going on. Who is taking the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā? Nobody is taking. Even in India where Bhagavad-gītā is originally, these rascals also not taking. And they have become so brainless. Therefore the whole human society is a dead society. And the dead society's dressing, decorating, is useless waste of time. That's all. Their education, their advancement... He has no brain. What is the use of education? That is said by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, that snake is a snake. Do you think a snake decorated with a jewel on the hood is gentleman? Similarly, a man without brain, so-called education, is just like a jewel on the head of a serpent. Kim asau na bhayaṅkara. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita asks "Whether a snake with jewel on the head is not fearful? He is as much fearful as the other snake without the jewel." Similarly, if a human being has no brain, with his so-called education or no education, it is as good. The education has no value. He does not know what is good work, what is bad work, what is my aim of life, what is this body, what is the soul? If these things he does not know, then what is the value of his education? So the man is not satisfied?

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Kill all the animals. Oh, just see. They will not give to others.

Bhagavān: The farmers were complaining that their prices weren't competitive cause there was so much milk.

Prabhupāda: The price is the standard, not that goods are required. They want money for purchasing wine. This is the difficulty. They are not satisfied simply by eating sufficient. They want money for woman and wine. This is their philosophy.

Bhagavān: In the United States that same problem was there, that the prices were all going up. Everything was having inflation.

Prabhupāda: So if they had sense, they should have exported where there is necessity of this milk, butter, grain. Then the world will be happy.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: In the Vedic times also, just a few thousand years ago, there was one monarch also, one king.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they were subordinate to him.

Guru-gaurāṅga: But now, countries like Switzerland, they're afraid that if there is one kingdom, they will lose their standard of living.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guru-gaurāṅga: Their nice standard of living will be lost.

Prabhupāda: No, why? The standard of living should be one: plain living and God consciousness. That is the disease. Everyone wants to enjoy this material world to his best capacity. Therefore we divide. They don't want to live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Material consciousness. Enjoyment of the senses. And that is the cause of their suffering. Only on account of this sense gratification, they're creating different mentality, and, after death, they're getting different body. That they do not know. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. One is trying to associate with the goodness, brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇa qualification, he'll be promoted, and one who is trying to imitate, "I shall be as powerful as the tiger," he'll be degraded. It is nature's law.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: He's puffed-up.

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not puffed-up. It is simply foolishness, "Because I do not know, therefore all others..." Ātmavat manyate. Everyone thinks of others in his own standard. But that argument is not valid.

Bhagavān: Is that the same psychology that they, they only know of material body, so when they think of God, they think that God has material body also.

Prabhupāda: That is still lower grade man. But so far experience that "I have not... God is beyond my experience." Another point that in the Bible, Christ, Lord Christ says that "My Lord, Thy be hallowed..." What is that?

Devotees: "Hallowed be Thy name."

Prabhupāda: So God has name.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed by Thy name."

Prabhupāda: Eh? So he admits God has His name. But it may be that he did not disclose or did not like to say, but there is already name. So it is up to the followers to know what is that name.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: Does the human species come with the gradual evolution or is the human species created first?

Prabhupāda: No, in the creation, according to your karma. As you stopped your activities in the last creation, it is, it is just like... It is called suptottitha-nyāya: "A man is sleeping, and when he's awakened, he immediately remembers, 'What I have to do.' " So the annihilation means all living entities sleeping, and as soon as there is creation again they begin from the point where they last lost their life. That's it. It is the same example. Just when you go to sleep, you have a standard of thinking, and as soon as you are awakened, the same standard of thinking again begins. From the point where you slept and when awakened, you again begin from that point. It is like that.

Satsvarūpa: So when Lord Brahmā created this planet, did he immediately put all the species here?

Prabhupāda: No, why immediately? It doesn't matter, immediately. But the living entities come to their new formation of life in that way.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in your spiritual master's commentary on Brahma-saṁhitā, he states that within the core of the heart there is some desire and that according to that desire, one takes a body in the next creation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is their standard?

Yogeśvara: Did he say anything before he left?

Jyotirmayī: Yeah, he said that he was in the, he was promulgating a law. So I asked him if he was going to help promulgate a law against cow-killing. So he said...

Prabhupāda: Now, this is our proposal, that why you should kill cow? Cow may be protected to take milk, and use this milk for so many nice preparations. Then, so far meat-eating is concerned, so every cow will die. It is a fact. So you wait a few days only. There will be so many dead cows. So you take all the dead cows and eat. So where is the bad proposal? If you say that "You are restraining us from meat-eating," no, we don't restrain you. We simply request you that "Don't kill. When the cow is dead, you eat it."

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in the western countries now, the young people, when their parents grow old, they generally send them away to old age homes. So if they have no compassion even towards their own parents, that they would send them away, then how can we educate them to protect the cow which is just like mother if they're even willing to practically kill their parents?

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of protecting. We shall protect. Simply we ask them that "Don't purchase meat from the slaughterhouse. We shall supply you the cow after his death." Where is the wrong?

Satsvarūpa: Not enough meat.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: But how do we know what, how do we know when we should accept this adversity? Sometimes people artificially...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Adversity, not always to accept. But you have to follow the regulative principle enjoined in the śāstras. That is, in one sense... Suppose you are accustomed to certain type of, standard of living, but for Kṛṣṇa's sake, you have to give it up. That kind of adversity. That is not actually adversity, but he thinks that "I have taken this voluntary..." What is this, electric? So not a single useful tree. These trees are no fruits, no flowers.

Yogeśvara: Yes. Can we call these trees demonic?

Prabhupāda: Not demonic. Sinful.

Paramahaṁsa: They have many seeds to reproduce themselves, but no fruits or flowers.

Prabhupāda: Impious, not pious. What is the name of this park?

Yogeśvara: The Tuilerie Park.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: The Tuilerie Garden.

Prabhupāda: Tuilerie.

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But everyone is not advanced in knowledge. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says the question remains because there are other, very spiritually advanced men who don't accept that idea.

Prabhupāda: No, somebody may be known as spiritually advanced according to the society, but he may not be. So another thing is that what is the way of understanding the Absolute Truth. Let him explain. What is the standard way of understanding Absolute Truth? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says he doesn't have an answer in that kind of a context.

Church Representative: No context, problematic.

Prabhupāda: It may be problematic to some, but Absolute Truth can be understood by śruti, authoritative hearing.

Karandhara: When the Absolute reveals Himself, then... Śruti means the absolute knowledge from the Absolute, from God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the Absolute Truth is known by the absolute method which is called śruti, hearing from the Absolute. Absolute cannot be imagined or speculated.

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore we accept Absolute Truth from the Absolute.

Karandhara: And according to the Vedic system, in different times and different places, according to the mentality and the culture of the people, the Absolute has made Himself known on different levels, higher and lower levels. But that... The Absolute as revealed through the Vedas, specifically the Bhagavad-gītā, is the most advanced level. It is the standard by which all other levels are judged. It is the most advanced, complete knowledge.

Church Representative: Yes, I know this. I know. I know this.

Karandhara: But it's not just an opinion. It's not just a secular idea. By scientific principle, if we consider the logic of all the propositions of Bhagavad-gītā in relation to the Bible and Koran, if we're actually impartial and open, then we'll understand that truth. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of superior logic, extending the same basic truths to their highest perfection. So in discussing the merits of Bhagavad-gītā versus another scripture, it's not that we're trying to argue just for the sake of polemics but to establish the real standard, what is the most elevated or advanced standard of the knowledge.

Bhagavān: But people are suffering due to lack of that accurate knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: This authority means just like you follow somebody. You are going to somewhere by aeroplane. You do not know. But others are purchasing ticket and going there, so you have to follow them. That's all. So the authority is if he does not know... Therefore we are giving the chance, the association of the devotee. The devotee, they are practicing something for going back to home, back to Godhead, so you have to mix with the devotees and then gradually understand.

Karandhara: No, what he's saying is: what is the standard of measurement? There are so many people saying they are the authority. How does one individually judge which one is the best or proper?

Prabhupāda: So that he has to judge himself. It is like this: just like if you eat, then you judge yourself whether you are satisfied or not. (French) The process is described. No, no, the process is described. First of all, the thing is that he is inquisitive to know the ultimate goal. That is first qualification, that he is actually searching after the goal of life, the actual. That is first qualification. If he has no such aim, that "I must find out the actual aim of life," then he will remain always in darkness. Then next thing, next process will be that he has to associate with person, those who are also actually the goal of life. And then next process is, as Bhagavān was telling last night, that we have no problem. Then next process will be how we have become free from all problem. Then he will say, "You do like this." Then, acting according to him, one who says that I have no problem, "So let me act like him," when he feels, "Yes, I have no problem," then it is fixed up.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, y-a-d. Yad yad.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas.

Prabhupāda: Mmm.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:

yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas

tat tad evetaro janaḥ

sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute

lokas tad anuvartate

(BG 3.21)

Translation, "Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues."

Pṛthu Putra: (French) (pause)

Yogeśvara: When we were at your meeting a few weeks ago, there was, we felt very encouraged because there was very nice interest in how it was that these young western boys and girls had been able to take to this form of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (French)

Lady (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: Last night, at the conference hall, this lady heard your lecture about how the soul reincarnates in different kinds of bodies. So she wants to know how is this possible because in the West, our understanding is that the animal forms do not possess a soul.

Prabhupāda: How does..., she can prove that she does not, it does not possess a soul.

Pṛthu Putra: She just doesn't understand. She does not say that. She does not understand.

Prabhupāda: No. She admits man has got soul, and animal has not soul.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So this incarnation means I am spirit soul, I have entered this body. Now I can, next life I can enter into another body. It may be dog's body, it may be cat's body or it may be king's body. So the standard of suffering is there either in the king's body or in the dog's body. And the standard of sufferings is enunciated, birth, death, old age and disease. These are our sufferings. So in order to get out of these four kinds of sufferings—there are many kinds; these are the main kinds—we have to get out of this body. That is the problem.

Professor Durckheim: Through many lives...

Prabhupāda: Many life or this life. In this life you understand that "My sufferings are due to this body. Then how to get out of this body?" If you acquire this knowledge, you know the tricks, then you get immediately.

Professor Durckheim: May I say that way, that you say, if you, for instance, or I want to go out of this body, it doesn't mean that I will have to kill my body, but to realize that my spirit is independent from my body.

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is no question of killing. You be killed or not killed, you have to go out of this body and accept another body. That is nature's law. That you cannot avoid. It is not necessarily that first of all you have to be killed. No.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Dr. P. J. Saher: We have a similar thing in the Christian (German).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Christian method, the offering prayer. That is bhakti, that is bhakti. (German) (break) Kali-yuga means fight. Nobody is interested to understand the truth but they'll simply fight, "In my opinion, this." I say, "My opinion, this." You say, "His opinion." So many foolish opinions and fight within themselves. This is the age. No standard opinion. Everyone has got his own opinion. Therefore there must be fighting. Everyone says, "I think like this." So what is your value, your thinking like that? That is Kali-yuga. Because you have no standard knowledge. If a child says the father, "In my opinion, you should do like this." Is that opinion to be taken? If he does not know the thing, how he can give his opinion? But here, in this age, everyone is prepared with his own opinion. Therefore it is fight, quarrel. Just like the United Nation, all the big men go there to become united, but they're increasing flags. That's all. Fighting, it is a society of fighting only. The Pakistan, the Hindustan, the American, the Vietnam. It was meant for unity but it is rendered into fighting association. That's all. Everything. Because everyone is imperfect, anyone should give his perfect knowledge.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Dr. P. J. Saher: Do you mean the Kali-yuga exists all the time?

Prabhupāda: No. This is the period when foolish men have developed so many. Instead of making solution the fighting increasing. Because they have no standard knowledge. Therefore this Brahma-sūtra says that you should be eager to inquire about the Absolute Truth. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now the answer, next quote, is that Brahman, or the Absolute Truth is that from which, or from Whom, everything has come. Athāto brahma jijñāsā, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Now you find out where is the... Everyone is trying to find out what is the ultimate cause. That should be the aim. That if you follow these philosophical quotes then your fighting will stop. You'll be sober. This verse also athāto jijñāsā. Athāto jijñāsā means to inquire about the Absolute Truth. Sit down, because there should be a class of men, very intelligent class of men in the society who are discussing about the Absolute Truth and they will inform others, "This is Absolute Truth, my dear friends, my dear..." Should do it like this. That is one thing. But here everyone is absolute truth. That is fighting. (German) (break)

Vedavyāsa: ...was the always the desire of mankind to find (indistinct) he says the kings should be wise and the wise men should be kings.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Vedavyāsa: So he said that this was always the desire but...

Prabhupāda: But thing is that this desire is there everywhere. But whose desire is standard? That should be understood. Everyone is desiring. But whose desire is to be followed? What is the actual, factual desire? That is to be understood. Unless you do not know what is the standard of desire, then this fighting will go on. You desire, I desire... (German) (break)

Vedavyāsa: ...saying that knowledge is important also...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Knowledge, that is described. Knowledge is according to the quality of the person. If the man is a debauch, what is the value of his knowledge? We cannot take up the knowledge that's given by a debauch. The perfect human being is described. Śamo damas titikṣā, ārjava. Find out.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. (German)

Vedavyāsa: She says that we cannot have heaven on earth.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Vedavyāsa: We cannot have heaven on earth simply by our desiring it.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like there are intelligent class of men, they sit together. They do not fight. Still you can men... because the example is there. But that requires qualification. Therefore what is that qualification?

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prof. Pater Porsch: No, my question was perhaps a little, not quite clear. Many of us here, myself felt, represent not only our personal selves but are here on behalf of certain institutions and we are active in some form or other of public service, these gentlemen probably also. And in what way, for example, would we serve your movement by giving a clear explanation about the aims of your activity, for example, removing prejudices and supporting Sanskrit studies and the better distribution of the Bhagavad-gītā in this form, in such ways, perhaps?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are writing these books for distribution.

Prof. Pater Porsch: Yes. Yes. Yes, I've already suggested that one.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are not manufactured knowledge. They are standard knowledge, Vedic knowledge, I am explaining for understanding of the people in general. Each word is being explained. Here is my dictaphone. I am sitting here. So as soon as I stop talking, I shall write immediately. At night also, I get up at two o'clock, one o'clock, and write these books.

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda came to United States in 1965, and this movement was started in 1966, '67, and since that time, he has published about twenty books like this, including Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: And what is the number of books sold last year?

Satsvarūpa: Four million.

Prabhupāda: Four million copies.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: Yes. And especially if you talk about the rational (German), the really German tradition is the irrational. So now this is coming back now, rediscovering their own past slowly.

Prabhupāda: So long they do not come to the standard platform, they will accept this sometimes and that sometimes. This will go on, changing.

Prof. Pater Porsch: No, but I meant it differently. Can it not be that average man in the street... I don't mean... Yes, it was, of course, in Germany. Man in the street now is infected from the...

Professor Durckheim: Absolutely, yes.

Prof. Pater Porsch: And he thinks that in order to give a rational presentment, (German) (break)

Professor Durckheim: ...I realize that the closer members engaged, really, in this work of distributing books and chanting, wearing the white robes and shaving the heads, they are the closer participants I suppose. And then have you also members of your movement which are simply in their work, in the community, in the world? Or is...

Prabhupāda: No, we invite everyone.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: All the night or do you at the day sometimes?

Prabhupāda: No. At night I get up at one, at half past one, sometimes half past twelve. But I take a little rest, one or two hour in the daytime. So two hours at night, two hours at day, or three hours at night, two hours in day. In this way, altogether five hours, not more than that. Our predecessor gurus, Gosvāmīs, they were taking rest not more than two hours or 2-1/2 hours. So we should come to that standard, yes. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. About them this description is: they reduced their sleeping, nidra. Nidra means sleeping. And āhāra. Āhāra means eating and collection. Collection is also āhāra. Yes. So they were mendicant. They had no collection. And they had no preaching mission. They were simply writing books. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau, very expert to study different scriptures just to get the essence of scripture and give to the people. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. So their life was engaged for the benefit of the whole human society. What these people are talking philanthropy and humanitarian? They dedicated their life for... Just like we are doing. It is not for any sect or any person. For the whole human society.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Because our vision is from the standard of the soul. The soul is there in elephant as well as in the learned scientist. So paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18), means a learned, advanced, spiritualist, he sees that everyone is soul. The body, material body, is dress. Just like we are talking with Dr. such and such, not with the dress. We are not interested with the dress, but we are interested with you, person. Similarly, these bodies are dresses, different dresses, according to the price he has paid. According to his work, nature gives him. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).