Spoil (Conversations 1968 - 1973)

Expressions researched:
"spoil" |"spoiled" |"spoiling" |"spoils"

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: So you have discovered a bomb which will accelerate death. Death, everyone is going to die. So if you manufacture something which will actually help my death, is that very meritorious? If you discover something that will stop my death, that is meritorious. But everyone is dying and you have discovered some machine so that you can die quickly. What is the merit? But people are appreciating, "Oh, this is meritorious." This is called duṣkṛtiḥ. Duṣkṛtiḥ, mean one has got merit, it is being spoiled for doing something wrong. This is called duṣkṛtiḥ. So such people, duṣkṛtinaḥ, who, one who is using the merit for sinful activities, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. He cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15) and rascal. Rascal means denying the existence of God. He's a rascal. Anyone who denies the existence of God, he's a rascal. Rascal means poor fund of knowledge. Everything... Suppose this is a country, Indonesia, nicely being managed; the roads are there; the policemen there, they're directing... Just yesterday we were trying to enter in a one way, policeman directs. So this symptom says that there is a good government. So any sane man, he'll see the cosmic manifestation—that the sun is rising exactly in time; the moon is rising exactly in time; the seasons are changing; the seas is in its position. Just like the Pacific Ocean at any moment it can overflow at any place. But it does not do so. You walk... I was walking in Los Angeles just about three feet away from the sea.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Guest (2): (indistinct) to understand religion is (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must be the same. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣad bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the course, or the laws given by God. Just like law means the law given by the state. I cannot manufacture law. The citizen cannot manufacture law. The law is manufactured by the legislative assembly of the government. Similarly, religion means the order given by God. Now we have to understand who is God, and what is His order, and how it is applicable to everyone. That is the system of religion. We cannot whimsically give some rituals as religion. The principle of religion is to obey the orders of God. Therefore the first principle is to know who is God. Unless I know what is God, then how I can know what is His order? So in the Bhagavad-gītā, the religion is given that—(Aside:) you are feeling sleepy, you can go—the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is religion. We have manufactured so many types of religion, and here God says that "You give up your manufactured religion. You just surrender unto Me." This is religion. Religion means to surrender. A good citizen means to surrender to the government law. Similarly, a religious person means who has surrendered to God. Nowadays it has become a regrettable fashion that everyone is God, when we surrender to one. And this false prestige that "I am God. I haven't got to surrender to anyone. I am God. What surrender?" This atheism is going on and spoiling the whole human society. God has become so cheap. Any nonsense can claim, "I am God." That is the defect of the modern society. There is a great necessity to understand God. If everyone is God then where is the necessity of religion? If everyone is president then where is the necessity of lawmaking? So this is going on. This is very unfortunate situation.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Everyone should become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is the plan. That is the whole plan. That is stated. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Just like this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, this is man-manā, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. This Kṛṣṇa chanting means thinking of Kṛṣṇa, immediately, man-manā. Mad-bhaktaḥ, there is in the temple, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa deity, they are worshiping. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī, they are regularly, according to the rules and regulations from morning to up to ten, there is worshiping method. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), offer your obeisances. Then you come back to Me. That is perfection. They do not know where they are going, whether they are going to be cats and dogs. But here by this process you go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore this should be adopted. Why should you spoil your energy to become cats and dogs? This is...

Scholar: It's time for real life.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: That is real life. That is real life, to go back to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you do not know where you are going. After all, you're preparing for something next. But your energy is being spoiled because do not know. But if you become kṛṣṇa-yājī, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, is it very difficult? Man-manā. You think of Kṛṣṇa, you worship Kṛṣṇa, you are going to the temple, you're offering some prayers. That's all right. What is the difficulty if you offer the prayer to Kṛṣṇa? You have to do the same thing in a systematic way. Then mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām (BG 9.25), then you go back to Kṛṣṇa. Next life is to go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of life.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: And all the innocent, they're all misled.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, that is our protest. That you remain a rascal at home. Why you are misleading others?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're spoiling themselves, but, not only that, they want to spoil others also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their business. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). (pause) Kṛṣṇa so easily simplifies the matter. They'll not accept it. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir... (BG 2.13). In two lines, he solves the whole biological problems. In two lines. That is knowledge. Minimum words, maximum solution. That is knowledge. And talking nonsense and no meaning. Books, volumes of books, talking nonsense and there is no meaning. Is that knowledge?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Ignorance.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's the inborn quality of the living entities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhir narāṇām. The only special significance of human being is that he has got special intelligence to understand what is Absolute Truth. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So therefore his first duty is to know the Absolute Truth. Not waste time for eating, sleeping, mating. The modern material civilization is wasting time, so-called advancement of material comforts. Simply wasting time. Nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ (SB 2.1.3). They are wasting time at night either by sleeping or by sexual intercourse. Divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā. And during daytime, simply: "Where is money? Where is money? Where is money?" And as soon as they get money, they spend it for kuṭumba-bharaṇa, for maintaining the family. This is their business. The sum total of modern civilization. And if they can purchase a nice car, that is the success of their life. Kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā. Not only for himself, for his wife, for his children, if he has got three cars. Just like our Mukunda Mahārāja is doing. He's earning one thousand dollars and spending in car. That is his Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Rascal boy is so much captivated with the rascal girl. He's thinking that he's happy. He's spoiling his life. (pause) Divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā (SB 2.1.3). Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api, teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati (SB 2.1.4). Dehāpatya. Deha means body. Apatya means children. Dehāpatya-kalatra. Kalatra means wife. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣu. He thinks: "They are my soldiers. I'll fight with nature, struggle for existence.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Deki, yes. Simply dag da dag da dag dak. (sound imitation) But the rice is already taken away. So their labor is being spoiled in that way. They, pleasure... For the pleasure's sake, they are spoiling the human facilities. This is their intelligence. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says: jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā, anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jībake karaye gādhā. This jaḍa-vidyā, this material science, is simply a hindrance to our progress of spiritual life. All these rascal scientists, they'll deny God. That is their business. Just like you said yesterday that somebody was accepting God, and the other scientists, they thought: "No, it is insult." So already they are in oblivion. They cannot understand what is God. And these rascals are making them more and more rascals. "There is no God." By their scientific research, the rascals are becoming more rascals. And they're becoming captivated: "This is pleasure." What pleasure you will do you with. Therefore they are, they are gādhā. They are gādhā and they are creating gādhās. That is the song of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra... It is expansion of māyā's illusory energy. The so-called scientific advancement is simply expanding the influence of māyā's illusory energy. They're already rascals and fools, and still they are being made rascals and fools. So they're forgetting their real purpose of life and the whole human life is spoiled. This is the result of so-called scientific advancement.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: If that semina is misused or wasted, then that disrupts the plan of the authorities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: It's a serious matter.

Prabhupāda: Therefore this contraceptive method is sinful activity. Abortion, contraceptive method. This is against the, I mean to say, plan of the Supreme. Just like the government is making some plan, and if you spoil it, you are criminal. What is the time now?

Brahmānanda: Twenty of seven. Twenty minutes of seven.

Prabhupāda: So we can return now. Which way? (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So their statement that life started from matter can be disproved very easily?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Any child can disprove it. And that theory is also wrong that lower type of animals were first created. No. All different varieties were, all were existing.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Forty drops.

Prabhupāda: Just see. And how many, how much drops of semen he is discharging... That means he's spoiling his blood. But he is thinking, "I am enjoying." Would you like to, by giving your blood to enjoy? Would you like?

Umāpati: No, I don't think I'd like.

Prabhupāda: But you are doing that, every night. And that is called māyā.

Umāpati: I'm a brahmacārī, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, you are...(laughter) I am giving an example. This is going on. He is going to die. He has adopted a process by which he will die, and he thinks that he is enjoying. This is called māyā. Māyā means things which is not, māyā. Mā means not, yā means this. "What you are thinking, it is not that." That is called māyā. So they are in māyā means, they are thinking, these rascals, they are thinking, improving, becoming happy, advancing this māyā word will finish everything, mā, yā: "Not this." Bhāgavata says that "You are thinking you are becoming victorious, but you are being defeated." Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. These rascal, abodha-jātaḥ, born fools and rascal, they are becoming defeated in every step. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he does not inquire about his self, "What I am," he is simply being defeated. That's all. This is the verdict.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is what the research means. Research means to understand what was not known before.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Research means you admit that you are all fools and rascals. Research meant for whom? Who does not know. Otherwise where is the question of research? You do not know. You admit that. So so many mystic powers are there. You do not know how it is being done. Therefore you have to accept inconceivable power. And without accepting this principle of inconceivable power, there is no meaning of God. Not like that Bala-yogī became a God. So these are for the rascals, fools. But those who are intelligent, they will stress the inconceivable power. Just like we accept Kṛṣṇa as God—inconceivable power. We accept Rāma—inconceivable power. Not so cheaply. One rascal comes and says, "I am incarnation of God." Another rascal accepts. It is not like that. "Ramakrishna is God." We do not accept. We must see the inconceivable mystic power. Just like Kṛṣṇa, as a child, lifted a hill. This is inconceivable mystic power. Rāmacandra, He constructed a bridge of stone without pillar. The stone began to float: "Come on." So that is an inconceivable power. And because you cannot adjust this inconceivable power, when they are described, you say, "Oh, these are all stories." What is called? Mythology. But these great, great sages, Vālmīki and Vyāsadeva and other ācāryas, they simply wasted their time in writing mythology? Such learned scholars? And they have not interpreted that it is mythology. They have accepted it as actual fact. There was forest fire. All the friends and cowherd boys, they became disturbed. They began to see towards Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa, what to do?" "All right." He simply swallowed up the whole fire. This is inconceivable mystic power. That is God. Aiśvarya-vairāgya-yaśo-'vabhodha-vīrya-śriyā. These six opulences in full. That is God. That inconceivable power, inconceivable energy or mystic power, we have got also. Very minute quantity. So many things are going on within our body. We cannot explain. The same example. My nails are coming exactly in the form. Although it is spoiled by disease, again it is coming. I do not know what machinery is going on, and the nail is coming, exactly fitting the position and everything. That is coming from my body. So that is mystic power. Even it is mystic power for me and to the doctors, everyone... They cannot explain.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Tad apy aphalatāṁ jātaṁ. Teṣām ātmābhimān..., bālakānām anāśritya govinda-caraṇa-dvayam.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. "The human form of life becomes spoiled for those..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Who do not try to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply he dies like animal." That's all. Just like the cats and dogs, they also take birth. They eat, sleep, and beget children, and die. The human life is like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Jāta means the species?

Prabhupāda: Jāta. Jāta means born. Aphalatāṁ jātam. Jāta means it becomes futile. Futile. The human form of life becomes futile if he does not accept govinda-caraṇa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. If he's not convinced that "I worship the original Personality of Godhead Govinda," then he's spoiled. That's all. His life is spoiled.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ātmābhimāninām means the...

Prabhupāda: Ātmā, dehātmā-māninām. "I am this body."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So those self-centered...

Prabhupāda: Self? They have no information of the self. These rascals, they think, "I am this body." Ātmā means body, ātmā means self, ātmā means mind. So this ātmābhimānī means bodily concept of life. Bālaka. Bālaka means a fool, child, bālaka. Ātmābhimānināṁ bālakānām. Those who are under the bodily concept of life, they are like children, fools, or animals.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They claim that "We have done so much."

Prabhupāda: What have you done? You have simply spoiled money. That's all. In that sense I have done so much. Simply by teaching people, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," they are coming to such light. What do you think? I have done most wonderful thing than them.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But even if they do not know during their lifetime, at least, towards the end of their life, at the time of death, then they'll remember that, "I have wasted my life."

Prabhupāda: That is warned by Śaṅkarācārya. Vivekananda lamented at the end of his life, that "I have simply wasted my life." He admitted, "I have not given anything." Bālakānām. He was after this body, and he was recorded, government record, as political sannyāsī. Yes. He had political purpose, but was acting as a sannyāsī. Just like Gandhi, "Saintly statesman." He is recorded, "Saintly statesman." He's a statesman, politician, but he was introducing some morality, non-violence, like that. Actually, his philosophy failed. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity, but it was divided. The Muslim and Hindu divided. He wanted non-violence. He died out of violence. Therefore all his philosophy failed. And Indian independence was achieved not by Gandhi's non-violence method but (by) Subhas Bose's violence method. And he wanted to explain nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Just see, another foolishness. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and he was screwing some meaning to prove his nonviolence.

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You cannot purchase Kṛṣṇa consciousness—you can have money—that you have to cultivate.

Revatīnandana: Yeah, when Mr. Birla is getting old then he has to come to us, if he has any sense.

Prabhupāda: No they say, they simply give primary education (indistinct) they can read, that's all. And (indistinct). They don't send because everyone knows that sending boys to the school means spoil them. That's all. I have seen intelligent boys, they go to school and he is spoiled. Yes, spoiled. He learns how to smoke, how to have sex, how to talk nonsense, how to use knife, how to fight, these things. At least at the present moment. Yes. Simply slaughterhouse, this so-called school is called slaughterhouse. Yes, slaughterhouse.

Revatīnandana: It was when I went to school—I was a nice little boy—in school I failed out, only (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes, you must take as intelligent. That so..., time was wasted. Our, this gurukula should be taken care of very nicely. So nice preachers may come out. Brāhmaṇa, nice brāhmaṇa.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Immediately. It is not a question of when. Just like here is light. It doesn't depend there is darkness. You can remain in the darkness and immediately come to the light, and from the light immediately go to the darkness. So, this darkness and light, they are existing, co-existing. It is my choice whether to remain in the darkness or in the light. It is my choice. As soon as you are in the darkness, there is no light. As soon as you are in light, there is no darkness. It is your choice. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is light. And anything else, that is māyā. So we can accept either māyā or Kṛṣṇa. If you take to māyā, then you've spoiled your energy and time. If you take to Kṛṣṇa, you utilize your energy and time. Everything is there, ready. You haven't got to create. Everything is there. Just like night is there and day is there. You can keep yourself always in day. Do you know how to do it?

David Wynne: Keep going round, I suppose. (devotees laugh)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nowadays it is not difficult, because...

Devotee (1): Airplane.

Prabhupāda: Just like I started from India at eleven o'clock, and I came here at half past eight, the sunlight was still there. So if you proceed still further, further towards Western side, the night will not be able to come. So you can travel always in daylight. (laughs) Don't allow. It is an example.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So what I'm doing for the future? Just like in this life we collect some money, keep in the bank balance so that in future, old age, I may not be in difficulty. Similarly, what a human being should do for his future life? That he does not know, although past, present, future is there. So this is foolishness. He doesn't care for the future. So one who is foolish, without any knowledge of the future, whatever he's doing is defeated—in ignorance, because it is ignorance. Just like a boy does not take education, does not think of future. That is not very good. We must be prepared for the future, his next life. Yes, where is that civilization? Where is that education, that people are thinking for future life? Is there any educational system at the present moment? So everything is being defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Abodha-jāta, these rascal fools, born foolish. He does not inquire about the self-realization, so whatever he is doing, it is all defeat, he is spoiling his time, because he does not know. Ātma-tattvam, the science of self-realization. So in ignorance, whatever you do there is defeat. And they're being defeated and they're thinking "I'm victorious." This is called māyā. This is called māyā. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific. We are trying to save the living entity from disastrous condition. This is the aim and mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a religious sentiment, no. It is a very scientific. And we have got so many books already printed, and many books coming. Each and every one. You have seen our books?

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

David Wynne: Yes, this I can understand because it's...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you are working on the stone with your intelligence, but who has supplied you the intelligence? You are working with your hand, but who has supplied you the hand? In this way, if we consider that everything belongs to God; therefore the result must be given to God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

David Wynne: Sometimes one gets in the way. Sometimes one, when one's own wishes intrude, one can spoil what's being made by trying to put one's own ideas at the wrong time. But at other times, even with somebody who's as bad at it as me, the, something else does come through, doesn't it? The, the, what should be there if one senses and stands back and lets it come.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Sometimes it is not successful?

Śyāmasundara: When we try artificially to impose our idea on something, say, a sculpture, sometimes we make a mistake and it comes out not good.

Prabhupāda: That mistake you are responsible.

David Wynne: Yeah. Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Because at the present moment, as I told you, we are acting according to our whims. So if there is mistake, I am responsible.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Wynne: And a pure one. Not, not spoiled. Anyway, that's what I tell myself. (laughs) What I mean is, if one makes a bird, if it has the feeling that because Kṛṣṇa breathed life into it and made it, and if one can reproduce this and get the spirit of it, that's praising...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also indirect praising. But you can praise Him directly.

Śyāmasundara: I think part of the trouble with our modern age is that no one has any information about God.

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is God.

Śyāmasundara: They can't praise Him directly because they don't know what He looks like or what He does. (Prabhupāda is still eating.)

Prabhupāda: What is this, behind the halavā?

Śrutakīrti: Behind it?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Something is coming out, white?

Śrutakīrti: Oh, they probably put cream in it.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are always in wrong because we are born ignorant. Everything is wrong because ignorant, foolish. Madman's conception. This is all wrong, childish. Therefore we send our boys, children, to school, to correct the wrong ideas.

Mr. Wadell: But some of the teachers may not be correct.

Prabhupāda: No. The process is you have to go to the teacher. But if the teacher is a cheater, then the whole thing is spoiled. A teacher must be teacher, perfect teacher. But if he happens to be a cheater then the whole thing is spoiled.

Mr. Wadell: But the human situation is often a sort of mixture of the two. Sometimes...

Prabhupāda: No, mixture of two, that may be, but the process is that we have to approach the real teacher. Just like I approach the mother. Mother is supposed to be not cheater. But if the mother happens to be a cheater, then I am cheated. I am cheated. I don't get the information of my real father. But it is expected the mother should not cheat.

Mr. Wadell: Yes, oh I know that it is expected of the teachers.

Prabhupāda: So it is my misfortune; if I get a cheater mother, then my whole life is spoiled.

Mr. Wadell: But the teacher may be wrong without wishing to be wrong.

Prabhupāda: No, he is not teacher. If a teacher is wrong, he is cheater. That is our proposition.

Mr. Wadell: Well, I'm sorry, this is a point which we must surely...

Prabhupāda: This is the real point. If you have to go to a teacher, you must go to a real teacher. You don't go to a cheater.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles.) Yes. So this education is wanting. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As soon as one understands that "I'll have to change my, this body; then what kind of body I'm going to get next life." That next inquiry will be. Then he is intelligent. Then he is intelligent. Just like one man is working somewhere. Now, notice is given that "From such and such date, your work will not be required." Then you become anxious to know: "Then what shall I do next." I have to work. So similarly, if a person understands that he's going to change this body... Just like I'm an old man. I'll have to change in, say, immediately, or say five years, ten years. But the notice is already there because I am old man. So it is my duty to think: "Then what body I'm going to take next?" That is intelligence. And we have to prepare for that. So that is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can prepare yourself to go the higher planetary system, where demigods live. Pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ. You can go to the Pitṛloka. Bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā. If you want to remain within this planetary system,... yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām. "And anyone who is engaged in devotional service, he comes to Me," Kṛṣṇa says. So why not go back to Kṛṣṇa? Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). "If one comes to My place, he never comes back again in the material world." That is intelligence. Why not go back to Kṛṣṇa? But they have no intelligence. They're spoiling their life, simply living like cats and dogs. This is the position. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save them, that "Don't go again to the cats and dogs category; go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa." There is... Here is the possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Why don't you take advantage of this? Kṛṣṇa says: janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: (BG 4.9) "Anyone who tries to understand Me, Kṛṣṇa, what I am..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, one stops his rebirth in this material form. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are training people that "You have to take another body. So what is the use of taking...? Even if you take the body of demigod, like Brahmā, millions of years age..." That is stated in the Bhag ... ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16).

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So you give... Yes. That is the... The only difference is that in human form of life you can awaken your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the animal form... Here we are sitting with all human form of life, gentlemen, civilized men. I cannot call cats and dogs and sit here, and to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. Therefore this opportunity should be given. This opportunity should be given. And especially, you are English nation, recognized, great nation, respectful, you are respected... Especially in India, we have got very good respect for English nation. We had connection for so many years. And the politicians, they spoiled. Otherwise, the, I, we liked the British Empire, means unity of the human being all over the world. That can be revived again. That can be revived again. If you come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, your Queen comes to that,... There is process. There is process. You can revive your British Empire. It is not story. If you people take little advice from me, I can help you. Yes. You are intelligent nation. So kindly do this service to the students and awaken their dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will be a great service. And we are meant for helping you all. So you can inquire. You are at liberty to come at any time and inquire.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is not possible. It is very difficult. One saṁskāra, that initiation saṁskāra, and marriage saṁskāra-two, three saṁskāras, can be done, not the ten. It is not possible. Now the circumstances will not allow. It is very difficult.

Śyāmasundara: One thing that Malcolm and I were talking about before was that, he was lamenting that our educational system nowadays in the west, material education, practically spoils the child to understand spiritual life.

Prabhupāda: Why in the West? Everywhere.

Malcolm: More in the West because the child is more constrained in his molding.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole defect is that we are missing the goal of life. Therefore we do not know how to conduct business with the goal of life. At the present moment, in every field, they are missing the goal of life.

Malcolm: They seem oppressed by weight of number, that there are too many.

Prabhupāda: No, goal is one.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No. We become separated from the physical body, but we remain in the astral body, or subtle body, mind, intelligence... mind, intelligence and ego. That mind, material mind, material intelligence, you give up when you actually remain in your spiritual body. So this is also a great science. But unfortunately, there is no discussion on this point in any university of the world. But this is a science. So actual human civilization means they should study, they should inquire about this science and be well conversant. And that is the human... Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said that human beings should be interested to this science first. Because animals cannot inquire about this science. The animals, they are simply interested how to eat. So similarly, if a man also simply interested in economic development which means how to eat, how to sleep... That is also there in the animal kingdom. They are trying in their own way. But they have no problem. We have created problem. In the morning, we are thinking, "How to get such and such thing?" But a bird, beast, he has no such anxiety. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that you cannot get more or less. That is already destined. So don't spoil your time in getting more. Because... The example is given that nobody wants unhappiness, or some disaster. But the disaster comes, unhappiness comes. We have experience in our life. Nobody tries for that: "Let disaster come upon me. Let there be fire in my house." No. But the fire takes place. So similarly, because you are destined to some unhappiness and happiness, that will come, either happiness or unhappiness. You don't bother for that. There is already program, according to the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). You save your time. You simply try how to get out of this dangerous position of repetition of birth and death and go back to home, back to Godhead. That should be your endeavor.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So, if big, big scholars say, when Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī... (BG 18.65). The scholars say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." You see? If now, I can frankly say, if leaders like Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi and others, they mislead people, then how the people will be in normal condition? This is the position of India at the present moment. The leaders... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The leaders are blind. They have no training. They are not in disciplic succession. They do not know what is what, and they are taking the part of leadership, then everything is spoiled. Jāti-dharma, kula-dharma. And they have created varṇa-saṅkara.

Reporter: Yes. Everybody is varṇa-saṅkara.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the only remedy is

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

(CC Adi 17.21)

This is the only, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only remedy for rectification all the misgivings. Therefore any sane man, any thoughtful man, should try to understand the importance of this movement, and they should come and help.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: "Don't bother with any other things." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we are teaching them, that always think of Kṛṣṇa, always become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, always offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. So what is our difficulty? There is no difficulty. But if we actually do this, then I am Kṛṣṇa's representative. Who is representative? What the original master wants, if one does the same thing, he is representative. It is not difficult. But people will not do that. He'll try to avoid Kṛṣṇa and take Kṛṣṇa's book Bhagavad-gītā and interpret nonsensically and spoil the whole thing. This is going on. He's not ready to speak what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. He speaks his own words of the authority of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So Indian caste brāhmaṇas, they are against me, against me. They come to fight with me that I am spoiling Hindu religion.

Professor: (laughs) Well, you are a brāhmaṇa yourself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I am now sannyāsī.

Haṁsadūta: This is a statement of account from the Central Bank of India. It just arrived from London.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (pause, opens letter) Any other letter? No.

Haṁsadūta: That's all. No.

Prabhupāda: So just see how we have translated. You are Sanskrit scholar.

Professor: You know the Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad?

Prabhupāda: Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad. Yes.

Professor: Yes, I have made a translation of it into French. It's under print now at the present.

Prabhupāda: Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad? That is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna mission has done this, that they have learned to drink wine and eat meat, that's all, from the Western countries. That's all.

Professor: Yes. This is so.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their contribution. And they have spoiled the Hindu culture.

Professor: Oh. Yes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Because Vivekananda said, "Oh, what is the harm there, in eating? You can eat whatever you like. It doesn't matter in religion." It was the first. And he himself was eating anything. So all the Ramakrishna mission sannyāsīs still, they are eating meat, egg and everything, especially in America. Yes. Fish is no consideration. That is daily affair. And the turkey,... Yes. Instead of preaching here, they have taken the Western method. And Vivekananda's preaching is like Western missionaries-open hospitals, school...

Professor: You are right, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He had no spiritual knowledge. So therefore it has not been successful. They are preaching in the Western countries... As far I know, in America they have got ten or twelve branches. I am working for the last six years only. I have got already fifty branches. And each branch, there are devotees like them, not less than twenty-five, up to two hundred, three hundred, all dedicated souls.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Oh. There are so many songs. So you have devotional tendency. Develop it. Make your life successful. That is my humble suggestion. Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā bi... Anyone who has got this human form of life, he does not engage himself in developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he's drinking poison knowingly. Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Biṣa means poison. A great opportunity, this human life. That is our mission, that this modern civilization, they have created such entanglement that people are rotting and they are losing the opportunity of this human form of life. Only on the basis of this bodily concept of life.

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ

yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ

(SB 10.84.13)

So by order of our superiors, we are trying to introduce. But we are very unhappy, seeing these people. They are spoiling their life in the bodily concept of life. He does not know what is going to happen next life. But there is a next life. That's a fact. As we had past life as child, as boy, as young man, similarly, we have past life also. This simple truth, they cannot understand. Or there is no attempt in the educational field.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: But the interest... The religious interest in Russia is, is greater than in any other country in Europe. But not the, the leaders are not...

Prabhupāda: I say the leaders. Not only in Russia. Everywhere. The leaders, the rascal leaders spoiling the whole world situation. In India also. In India, by nature, they are aloof from these four principles of sinful life. Eighty percent of the population, by nature. But government, at the present moment, the leaders, they're inducing them to eat meat, to drink. And gambling also. Introducing. Gambling. Government is issuing that gambling cards. Because government means some rascal just like Nixon has gone to the power. Now he's proved he's a rascal. So everywhere the government leaders means all rascals.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is nature's arrangement. And those who are rich... There are richer section when the rice was selling at three rupees per mound, and the richer section is still there when rice is selling, nine rupees a kilo. So they have no eyes because less intelligent. They cannot make equal. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, in the prakṛti there are three modes of material nature. They will be manifested. It is not possible to make everyone of the same standard, the standard must be different. So they are simply spoiling their time to make the whole society on the same status. The communists are trying, the others are trying. That is not possible. So one should not be disturbed with all these superficial low and high places.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He said that there is no God, but he's God. Just like the policeman sometimes cheats. He goes as a gambler, but he's a policeman. So that is another thing. Therefore if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you understand all these different activities. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. And you become liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If anyone understands what is Kṛṣṇa, why He comes, what His activity is, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, you, after giving up this body, you haven't got to come again in this material world. Simply by studying Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are preaching, "Simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...life is meant for to possess complete knowledge of the Supreme. That is perfection of knowledge. That is possible in the human form of life, not in the life of cats and dogs. That is not possible. So we have got this opportunity. If we spoil this life, living like cats and dogs, then we are missing the opportunity. This is the opportunity to understand Kṛṣṇa, God.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Real duty is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is normal duty. All, all other duties are abnormal duties, crazy duties. Just like pāgala, they're all crazy.

piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya

māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya

Anyone who's under the clutches of māyā, or madness, what is the value of his duty? Śrama eva hi kevalam. He's simply spoiling his time. That is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

viṣvaksena kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

(SB 1.2.8)

Just like you have come here, a little tendency for hearing about Kṛṣṇa. Your life is succ..., on the path of success. And there are other, millions, they're not interested. So, for them, the śāstra says, "They're simply working like cats and dogs." Just like dogs sometimes goes very fast this way, that way, that way, they're passing with motor car, this way, (makes barking sound) "Onh, onh, onh, onh, onh, onh." They're simply spoiling time. In America, I have seen, always, (makes automobile noise:) "sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh." Here also. But we see these rascals spoiling time. But that will not appeal to the rascals. They'll say, "They are spoiling time. What these rascals are dancing Hare Kṛṣṇa on the Fifth Avenue?" They think, "Oh, they are crazy fellows." Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. They are thinking us as in darkness. I am thinking, we are thinking, "They are in darkness." This is going on. But who is in darkness, that is to be decided by the supreme judgement of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore I have written one, that book, Who is Crazy?

Devotee: Who is Crazy?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Pradyumna: "The intelligent, who have understood the Supreme Lord in association with pure devotees and have become freed..."

Prabhupāda: "In association with pure devotees." So if you are karmīs, then where is the..., What is the value of this association? Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means assembly, discussion. Bodhayantaḥ parasparam, tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca. If you are not interested in association, discussion, then you are finished. So... karmīs, they are fools and rascals. When you have got this center, it is not that you should be engaged from morning till you go to bed for sense gratification. That is not life. That is karmī's life. You have no time for sat-saṅga, for association. You cannot make any progress by this sort of karmī's life. We have to work for organization, but not that whole day and night engaged and no sat-saṅga. That is a misguided policy, and it will spoil the whole structure. In Los Angeles, they regularly assemble during ārati and class. If this regulative principle is lost, then you are karmīs. They must come back by six o'clock, suspending all other duties, and assemble by seven o'clock. Joint mess program is not good. "You bring some money, you bring some money and spend us jointly for eating, sleeping." That is called joint mess. You know the joint mess? This word? What is that, meaning?

Brahmānanda: Well, it means... I thought it had something to do with civil servants, where they all live in a dormitory and eat in a large hall.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Nobody has intelligence. It will not, it will not stay. It will be spoiled. Joint mess organization. In Los Angeles, they're also doing business. They're going to sell books. But regulative principle is observed. Huge expenditure they have got. No center is so improved as Los Angeles. We have purchased six houses. And I wanted immediately two lakhs, immediately sent. You cannot pay. You simply want to take. In India, nobody can pay. If I want two lakhs, nobody can pay. But all this money have been taken from U.S.A. I asked Bali Mardana, I asked Karandhara. They paid me for this Bombay affair, sixteen, eighteen lakhs. (break) ...and breathing also does not stop. It goes very slow. Therefore he cannot be immortal. And Bhagavad-gītā proposes, that is wonderful thing, if you can stop death. And whole spiritual life means how to stop death. That is Bhāgavata's instruction, "Don't accept guru, don't accept father, don't accept, or don't be father, don't be mother, don't be, if you cannot stop death." Either you don't accept, or don't become. Just like they want guru. So don't accept a guru who cannot stop your death. And from guru's side, it is advised, "Don't become guru if you cannot stop the death of your disciple." This is Bhāgavatam's statement. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to stop death, live eternally with Kṛṣṇa, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our movement. So our guru gives us this opportunity, no more death. Tyaktvā... After leaving this body, you don't accept any more material body. And if you don't accept material body, then there is no death. As soon as your spiritual, you remain in spiritual body, there is no death. There is no birth also. Death is concomitant where birth is there. If the death is stopped, then there is no birth. And if there is no birth, there is no disease, there is no old age. This is the process. So birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if you don't like to be Kṛṣṇa conscious then what is the use of becoming your disciple, and if the guru, if he cannot stop your death, birth and death, then what is your becoming guru? So 'mṛtatvāya kalpate. Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha. Find out this verse. Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we forbid to take to the karmī's life. Because at the time of death, if he remains a karmī, then he'll have to take birth as a karmī. That is the risk. So this regulated life, holding class, chanting, that will not make us fall down. That is essential. It is essential, regulate, to follow the regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds, holding class. You can do anything, but this will keep us alive to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. If you neglect that, then that is very risky. Even if you get next life birth in a rich man's family, that is not guarantee. Because generally, rich man's sons, they go astray. They get money for nothing and they want to squander it. And material world, if you have got money, so many bad associates will come and help you to squander your money and spoil your life. Because you have got money, then so many friends will come. As soon as you have no money, nobody will come. Even your wife, children will not come. Therefore hariṣye tad dhanaṁ śanaiḥ. Kṛṣṇa, first of all, takes away the money, makes him poor so that everyone will neglect him, and because he's Kṛṣṇa conscious, he'll take Kṛṣṇa, "Sir, I have no other alternative. Please give me protection." That is also another Kṛṣṇa's policy, special favor, that "This man wanted Me. Now he's going astray. All right. That's all right.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: There are many instances but this is the injunction of the śāstra. And practically also. Suppose a man is a medical practitioner. He may be born in a brāhmaṇa family or śūdra family. Nobody wants to know to which family he belongs to. If he sees that he is a medical practitioner, he has passed the MD examination and that he is practicing then people accept him as doctor, medical man. Nobody asks him, "Are you a brāhmaṇa, then I make my treatment with you?" Nobody asks that. So, this is śāstric injunction. Then later on this caste brāhmaṇism, śūdraism made the whole thing, whole Hindu culture, Vedic culture spoiled.

Guest: Quite right.

Prabhupāda: That is the.... Now it is the duty of the secular government.... Now if somebody is claiming that, "I am brāhmaṇa", then government should force him to become actually a brāhmaṇa. That is government's duty, that is secular state. Not that let people go to hell, we don't care for them, that is not required.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So, we are thinking now we have got defense measure with atomic bomb, we are now advanced. But what is that advancement? That defense method is there even with cats and dogs. What you have done beyond this? They have no brain. Everyone is spoiling life with these four principles of how to eat, how to sleep. Eating...

Guest: Even they don't eat nicely. They eat rubbish.

Prabhupāda: Actually they eat all rubbish, but they think like.... It is a misguided civilization.

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So we are practically against all this misguidance of the human civilization.

Guest: I know.

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānas te 'pīṣa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind men leading other blind me, this is going on.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: So much of it is based on politics, also, Prabhupāda. They...

Prabhupāda: Yes, They, they, they're everything, motivated. So therefore they're imperfect. I have got... Just like this United Nations. They have gone there for becoming united, but they remain disunited forever. Just see. All the best men go there for becoming united, but forever they will remain disunited. Just see the practical. Because they're all imperfect, rascals, motivated. How they can be united? They cannot be united. Simply spoiling their time and public money. That's all. Simply spoiling. But public have no eyes to see them. They're also rascal. Therefore my Guru Mahārāja used to say that the whole society's now combination of cheaters and cheated. That's all. The cheated want cheaters, and cheaters take the opportunity of the cheated. And that is the combination of the present day society. Somebody, they want to be cheated. And there are some cheaters. So the whole society is combination of cheater and cheated.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Actually, it's very good for them to be killed by a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a murderer is to be killed. Then his sins out of this murdering will be counteracted. If he lives, then he has to suffer so many tribulations. Better let him be killed. Then everything's finished. Life for life. And if there are good leaders, then they will see that the cheating scientists, they're spoiling state money. They'll be stopped in their nefarious activities. They could not become successful in the moon expedition. Now they have made another plan. Venus... What is? Venus expedition?

Karandhara: Mars, Jupiter.

Hṛdayānanda: Mars.

Prabhupāda: Mars. You see? But the rascal government does not... You could not become successful about the moon expedition. Why you are asking money again?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they are successful.

Prabhupāda: What is that successful?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they have gone to the moon. So that was a direct...

Prabhupāda: That you are not successful. You live there. What is the use of going there?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They wanted to know what is going on there.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just see how rascaldom is going on. What is the use of our going there? "Things are going on..." Suppose in another state, something is going on. So are you interested? Going... Let them go. What is the benefit out of it? You spend so much money, public. Simply to see. "There is a crack." Last conclusion: "There was a crack." Just see how they are spoiling hard-earned public money. Because there is no good leader, all these rascals are benefiting, taking their money, and enjoying, and giving bluff information to the public. This should be stopped. Immediately this should be stopped. What is their contribution? The same thing: a dog is already barking, and because they're imitating barking, they're being awarded Nobel Prize, "Oh, how you can bark nicely!" This is going on. There is life already. It is practical. Everyone sees that a man and woman combines and there is child, life, another life. And now, foolishly they want to prove that life comes from matter. And as soon as we offer that "You take this matter. Produce," "That we shall see later on." Just see. In this way, they're spoiling money. So because there is no good leader, these rascals are not stopped.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the government's duty, that the citizens may not degrade. That is government's duty. Now, just like a father thinks, "Now, these children have come under my protection. I must see they get proper education and make advancement of life." It is the father's duty. And if the father thinks, "Let him go to hell." That's all. Nowadays fathers are doing like that. That is not father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that the citizen must make progress. But they do not know what is means by progress, what is the aim of life. They do not know. They are demonic. How they will guide? They think, like cats and dogs, "If you get fatty and you can eat more, then your life is successful." Their thinking is very poor. Simply physical strength, they think that is success. But he does not think that physical, the elephant has physical strength so much, the tiger has physical strength so much, but what is the use of their life? After all, it is an animal. But they are thinking like that, "If you get strength like an elephant or like tiger, then your life is successful." They're thinking like that. But because they do not know what is the aim of life, what is the goal of life. A dog does not know what is the aim of life. But even if I say that "This is the aim of life," it will not understand because the body is different. But a human being can understand. Therefore there are so many books of knowledge. So if they do not get proper knowledge, that means they are missing the point. (break) ...tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam: "So long one does not come to the point of understanding the spirit soul, whatever he is doing he is being defeated because the main point is missing." Like cats and dogs he is accepting this material body as self, and he is working on that platform. Therefore his life is being spoiled. (break) Our mission is to save human being from being spoiled like animals. That is our mission. The greatest humanitarian work.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: In Mathurā?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Mathurā, yes. They have laid the foundation, Indira Gandhi. I think a few months ago I saw in the paper. So there will be one refinery there. So it will be industrial town now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They want to spoil the spiritual value of Mathurā, Vṛndāvana. They are not giving any more sanction for temples. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yesterday Rūpānuga Mahārāja was telling me that about the calculation of time through the atom.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rūpānuga: Calculation of time from the atom, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He is talking about Bhāgavatam. By the light passing over the atom, you can calculate the time, the sunlight passing over the atomic particles.

Prabhupāda: So?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How is it done?

Prabhupāda: I have written that?

Rūpānuga: Yes, you have written, Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Rūpānuga: Third Canto. How the sunlight, you can tell time, that the atom is a subtle form of time, that you can tell time as light passes over the surface of an atom. And the experiment is that you look for atoms in a screen. When the sun comes through the screen, you can see in the sunlight hexatoms or six atoms with your naked eye. That experiment is given in Bhāgavatam. It is very wonderful. Vedic science. We should present that as the real actual science, real atomic science.

Prabhupāda: No, in Bhāgavatam there is regular calculation, what is the distance from one planet to another. Everything is there.