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Spiritually (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am the spiritual master of this institution, and all the members of the society, they're supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually. So therefore the spiritual master is called guru. That is Sanskrit language.

Interviewer: Guru means teacher.

Prabhupāda: Guru means not exactly teacher. Guru, the word, means heavy. Heavy. H-e-a-v-y, heavy.

Interviewer: Is guru and swami the same thing?

Prabhupāda: Swami means practically the same idea. Swami means the master of the senses. One who has not control over senses, he cannot become guru. The renounced order means he's strictly away from all kinds of sense gratification, especially sex life. Therefore, he's called swami. Swami means the master. One who has become the master of the senses, he can become the spiritual master of the society. That is the idea.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That I am taking this example just like we go for a short time on the sea but we cannot make any permanent settlement there.

Reporter: Yeah. But according to the Vedic literature they cannot go there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In this body we cannot go there. With this body we cannot go there. We shall have to change this body. Either you do it scientifically or spiritually or by any other method. With this body you cannot go there. You have to prepare a similar body which is suitable for living condition there.

Reporter: Would a spacesuit substitute for that?

Prabhupāda: Space?

Reporter: In other words, the spacesuits that the astronauts wear...

Prabhupāda: I don't think so. I don't think so. Spacesuits are...

Reporter: You see I'm a little confused because I can't tell whether you feel that based on Vedic literature, that you said it may be possible for them to land and to return for a short visit, yet you say they cannot go with this body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I say also this, that to land there you must have the specific body suitable for that place.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You have failed to give them satisfaction. Your this materialistic way of life will no more satisfy them. There is a stage, in the beginning, when one is poverty-stricken, he may think that "Money and woman and good apartment, good car, can give me satisfaction." They are after this. But after enjoyment, they see "Oh, there is no satisfaction." Because matter cannot satisfy you. So your stage is, in America especially, you have got enough for enjoyment. You have got enough food, you have got enough woman, you have got enough wine, you have got enough house—everything enough. This shows that material advancement cannot give one satisfaction. The confusion and dissatisfaction is more in your country than in India which is said to be poverty-stricken. You see? But you'll find in India still, although they are poverty-stricken, because they are continuing that old culture, they are not disturbed. Yes. They are dying inch by inch, but still they are satisfied. "All right." You see? Why? Because they have got little tinge of spiritual platform. So it is necessary now that people should take spiritual life. That will make them happy. There is no hope. All these people, they're in darkness. They do not know where they are going. They have no aim. But when you are spiritually situated, you know what you are doing, where you are going, what is your future. Everything is clear. You see?

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Prabhupada Listening to Recording of His Own Room Conversation with Students -- April 25, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I am prepared to tell you, and this center is open for telling you. Our books are there. It is not a paltry subject that you can understand immediately, but I can give you one instance. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, Second Chapter—those who have got Bhagavad-gītā, they will see to it—that "Within this body there is soul, and the body is changing every moment." That is a fact. We say, "The child is growing." Growing or changing-practically the same thing. Actually, it is changing because the former body is no longer to be found. It has accepted, the soul has accepted, another body. This is going on from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, then old age. So, just like I am old man. I can remember my childhood body, my babyhood body, my boyhood body, my youth-hood body. So the body is no longer, but I am there. I am thinking that "I did do like this. I was playing like this with my body." But that body is gone, but still I am there. Therefore it is naturally surmised that when this body will not be existent, I will be existent. I will accept another body. This is very logical conclusion. As I am changing so many bodies, still I am there. I can understand that I changed my body. I was so little. Now I have grown up. I am old. But I am there. Similarly, it is concluded, when this body will not be there, but I will accept another body. This is very easy to understand, that that "I" is... Now, we can perceive that when you are spiritually emancipated, you will see yourself, God also, and everything spiritual. That requires time. That requires practice. And we are teaching our students that practice, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to change the consciousness. When you change your consciousness, you will see yourself, you will see God, everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam etaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. When you are in that spiritual platform, everything will be known to you. But before that, if you want to know, that is not possible. Yes?

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Guest (1): I'd like to know how physical things that are done, as chanting or dancing or... Are there no...? If you consider , as having any importance. How do these physical things affect our spiritual understanding?

Prabhupāda: Physical... Just like a milk preparation. You take large quantity of milk, you get diarrhea. But the same milk, if it is prepared into yogurt, if you take it, your diarrhea will be cured. So physical things, when treated spiritually, it cures physical disease.

Guest (4) (Indian man): You said the approach to spiritual goal, through this way, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma. Okay. Now there is another philosophy which has been preached by Ramakrishna and Vivekananda: "The service of man is the service of God."

Prabhupāda: And why not service of God service of man?

Guest (4): No...

Prabhupāda: First of all answer this. If service of man is service of God, why not service of God, service of man?

Guest (4): Okay. It is one and the same thing because within man is within the soul, which is...

Prabhupāda: So, one thing, suppose that service of God is service of man, then why should you go door to door serving ... If God is service of man, if you say service of man is service of God, then service of God is service of man.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Giriraja: I could try.

Prabhupāda: Try. You just try it immediately. You take one newspaper and comment on the current news. Any one of you... Every one of you can do. And show me how you have given. Then you start immediately. We have got many things to do. We have Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is the bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka maheśvaram (BG 5.29). What these petty politicians and three acres of land? Their stage is three acres of land; our stage is the unlimited. That I have mentioned in the second volume of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So what news they can publish? Three acres of land. We have got the innumerable universes. We can supply so much news, provided people are ready to read it. We have published so many books, they are not even able to read these books. So the other devotees, (laughs) they cannot ri..., come at five o'clock. That is the test. Yes. One who cannot rise early in the morning, he is not spiritually serious. That is test. Brāhma-muhūrta, this hour, one hour before sunrise, is very auspicious moment.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 15, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: So better open. Deity will be there. Just like Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is doing. Install the deity for one week. You know everything. You have done in Calcutta, Bombay and other. Same thing. You were in Allahabad also?

Devotee: Yes, I was there.

Prabhupāda: Allahabad, Gorakhpur. So same thing. And for persons spiritually inclined, for them this traveling is very good. Traveling means with this occupation. It is very good. You'll be more popular and there will be no difficulty, mind will be steady.

Śyāmasundara: It takes away our attachment for everything materially.

Prabhupāda: The Gosvāmīs, they did not stay underneath a tree for more than one night. So you decide; then you do the needful.

Haṁsadūta: When should we arrange for Śivānanda's fire ceremony?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: Even that, a good play or a good music is not very long lasting. When you come out of the theater you're hungry. When your hunger is satisfied then you want some sex life. Then you want to drive home fast. There's always something there to agitate the material senses.

Dr. Weir: The trouble is, aren't you going to lead yourself into this difficulty: if you are spiritually satisfied you would sit down and do nothing and if everybody were doing that we should be rather back to where we started rather than have enough food or music or transport.

Prabhupāda: That is for the voidist, not for the spiritualist. The spiritual life there is enough activity for even scientists. That they do not know. They mean spiritual life is void. That is negation of the present activities only, negative idea. But actually when you stop material activities your real activity begins. That is spiritual life. The spirit, spirit soul is active. You cannot stop it. You cannot stop it. Now it is acting through the coverings of material, matter, therefore it is imperfect activities. But if the activity is uncovered by material things that is real activity.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Mensa Member: Yes, but they're biologically necessary rather than spiritually necessary.

Dr. Weir: Well, may I say, let's go farther, that when you say biologically necessary, is it necessary for you to be alive? What scientific...

Śyāmasundara: Prabhupāda has told us that even in the spiritual world there is desire to have the senses enjoy. Isn't that so?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Weir: But I think you need, I agree, I would say you need both. I want spiritual life, material life.

Mensa Member: (indistinct) spiritual thing, I mean, isn't it (indistinct) we're talking about China or New York (indistinct) about it, in fact it might even be a little (indistinct)

Dr. Weir: Well, I think to each person his picture is different too.

Śyāmasundara: The idea there is that in spiritual activity everything is seen in relationship to God and if you serve God with your every activity...

Prabhupāda: Yes. The same example, just like this finger is part and parcel of body. So long it is attached with the body there's not activities. You cut it from my body, there's no activity.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: Ah, yes, but I mean, then you have a, if somebody else who's sweeping faster and better, you say that he's greater spiritually even if he's doing it...

Śyāmasundara: No.

Prabhupāda: No, the purpose must be spiritual, the purpose must be for Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: So if we're speaking about Kṛṣṇa then our words become spiritual.

Dr. Weir: Yes, but I think if you're talking about spiritual things you mustn't try and quantify it.

Prabhupāda: Spiritual means it has no material qualification. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate.

Dr. Weir: You can't measure the beauty of a rose with a ruler.

Śyāmasundara: But you can it's like this, it's like that. You have to be able to describe it somehow.

Prabhupāda: Actually in higher sense there is nothing material because everything is emanating from God, therefore everything is spiritual.

Dr. Weir: Well, that's true but the electron, as far as you can say, may be spiritual.

Prabhupāda: There is no distinction in higher status because we say that everything that we see that is manifestation of God's energy.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:
Prabhupāda: So therefore, a saintly person duty is to protect the praja, the citizens, in a system so that they may become happy both materially and spiritually. This is one of the duties of the saintly person. Not that let me go to Himalaya and press my nose and I become liberated. This is not saintly person. This is not saintly person. Saintly person means they should be interested with the public welfare, real public welfare. And public welfare means every citizens should be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and then they will be happy both materially and spiritually. My point is that our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not selfish movement. It is the most philanthropic movement. But people in the name of philanthropic movement generally, because they are not actually saintly persons, they collect money and live.
Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, and it will become fire.

Bob: Yes...

Prabhupāda: Although iron rod.

Bob: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, this body, if you always keep yourself spiritually engaged, it will act as spiritual, although it is material body. The same example. Iron rod, when it is red hot, it is not longer iron rod, although it is iron rod. You can catch it as iron rod, but touch anywhere it will burn. It has got the quality of fire. Similarly, if you always keep yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness then you become spiritualized. You'll act spiritually. No more material demands.

Bob: How do I do this?

Prabhupāda: This process, as they are doing. You have seen. These boys are, our six boys, they are now initiated today. It is very simple. You have to follow the four restrictive regulations and chant this beads. Very easy.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Hm. But anyway, because you are living in this country, you must have some friends. Whenever you talk with your friends, you talk about Kṛṣṇa. Don't waste your time in other ways. That will be beneficial for you and for your friends. And before talking about Kṛṣṇa, you should know about Kṛṣṇa. And you can know about Kṛṣṇa very easily by understanding Bhagavad-gītā. So read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly. Try to understand it and you can distribute it. That is a great service to Kṛṣṇa, to your personal self, and to the person you are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. And four principles of impious life, as it is accepted by our Vedic followers, namely, no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That will give you strength and over and above that, if you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... You can chant. It is not difficult. There is no loss. You can chant. That will give you spiritual strength. And in this way try to become spiritually powerful and serve Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't matter. Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa's kingdom. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor everywhere. So if you be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so wherever you may be, you'll be with Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you remain with Kṛṣṇa, you are not living within this material world. You are living in the spiritual world. So, especially I request Indians, as it is ordered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra: (CC Adi 9.41) "Anyone who has taken birth on the holy land of Bhāratavarṣa, India," janma sārthaka kari, "just make your life successful by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and preach it."

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: She's also not very happy?

Himavatī: No. I don't think she's very happy with me.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Anyway, you serve Kṛṣṇa and then your mother will be best served. Kṛṣṇa will favor all the family members of a devotee. You have seen from Prahlāda Maharaja's statement. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that anyone coming to become His devotee, He takes care of the family of the devotee-spiritually, for their emancipation. That is natural. Just like government. If somebody dies on the warfield, the government takes care of the whole family. Similarly, if the government has so much sense, do you mean to say Kṛṣṇa is nonsense? He also takes care of the family of the devotee. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Where is Nanda Kumāra, Pradyumna?

Devotee: Pradyumna's been studying all day. Ah... Nanda Kumāra may be..., is he there in the room?

Prabhupāda: No, I don't want(?). Maybe sleeping?

Devotee: He is tired.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If we remain here and attract foreigners to come...

Gurudāsa: The manpower will come from them.

Prabhupāda: Not only visitors (indistinct), those who are spiritually inclined. In that way we may get opportunity.

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The other point is that when we manage these things, there are many guṇḍās in Vṛndāvana. They will try to create some trouble. Just like yesterday. You were present? This boy was fighting with one man. You were not present?

Gurudāsa: No. What time was it?

Prabhupāda: When the minister came.

Gurudāsa: I was not here at that time.

Prabhupāda: Tried to pick up quarrel. (break) You have not met?

Gurudāsa: Yes, I have met him. At Janmāṣṭamī two years ago at New Vrindaban.

Pañca-draviḍa: He is coming in the third shift.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Religious idea without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined. Religious idea supported by philosophy. Then it is correct. And philosophy without religious idea is simply mental speculation. They should be combined. That combination of religious idea and philosophy, you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, provided you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If you interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, then you'll miss the point. Just like in our country, in India, Bhagavad-gītā has been interpreted in so different ways that people are now bewildered. They do not know what is actually Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for example... Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). I think you know Sanskrit. Samavetā yuyutsavaḥ māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva kim akurvata sañjaya (BG 1.1). Even a great leader, political leader, he has interpreted kurukṣetra as this body. So where is the dictionary where kurukṣetra means this body? But because he's a big political leader that gītā is going on. Kurukṣetra means this body. Pāṇḍava means the five senses. In this way (break) ...they cannot (indistinct) I may tell you frankly. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and how he can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Then he has to drag some interpretation out of his own way. But because he's a big leader the people are misled. Similarly, all... at present moment in India the Bhagavad-gītā has becoming a plaything that anyone can interpret in his own way and do all nonsense. But I'll request you, because you are so much interested, and you have already approved Bhagavad-gītā, you have translated. Amongst the leading personalities, you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is and spread it, it will have immediate effect. That is already experimented. Just like in western countries, before me, hundreds and thousands, swamis and yogis went there. But not a single person could understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, and what is Kṛṣṇa. Now hundreds and thousands of these boys in Europe, America, Canada, Africa, everywhere, Australia, everywhere, they are now become devotees... So they're intelligent persons, they're coming from rich family. Why they have taken seriously? Because they have understood Bhagavad-gītā nicely. So I request that God is neither Indonesian, neither Indian, neither African, God is God. And He claims that all living entities, in any form... The form is superficial. The form is taken as dress. Just like you are dressed in a different way, I am dressed in a different way. But we are not talking to the dress, we are talking to the man who is putting on the dress. Similarly, this bodily distinction is material. But spiritually we are all one. There is no question of becoming Indian or Indonesian or African or Asian or this or that. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. You know.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Now in Russia, the people are starting to become disillusioned.

Prabhupāda: I, I, I am traveling all over the world. My opinion is that, materially, America is happy. And spiritually some portion of India is happy. Otherwise, there is no happiness all over the world. And material happiness is illusion. That is not happiness. Because it will break at any time. Therefore that is not happiness. And spiritual happiness is real happiness. So in Russia, there is neither material nor spiritual. So they are unhappy in all respects. I asked Professor Kotovsky to call for a taxi. So he said: "Well, it is Moscow. Very difficult to get taxi." So he came down himself, he showed us this way: "Please go in this way, in this way, and you get (to) your hotel." He's a big man. He knows that taxi will not be available. And there are few taxis only, show. I did not see any store very neat and clean, well-decorated. Not a single. All old with dust. As if antique shop. The antique shop, just like in your country. I was daily having my morning walk in the Red Square. The most dangerous square...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What square?

Prabhupāda: Red Square. Yes. I think you have got my picture.

Karandhara: Yes.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Mr. Wadell: Oh, yes, I agree about that, but you cannot...

Prabhupāda: And death is inevitable. Even if you have sufficient to eat, you cannot avoid death. So death is inevitable. That is the problem of material life. Birth, death, old age and disease. So you cannot avoid it. So long you are materially existing. This can be avoided when you are spiritually elevated. That is our movement.

Mr. Wadell: Yes, you cannot live without... You do not, as we say, live by bread alone. And in that sense—it may be the sense in which you wish me to take—the sense, what you are saying, that God supplies bread, because bread could be both bread for the spirit or soul...

Prabhupāda: No, bread is material. Bread is material. To maintain your material body, you require material bread. But spiritual body does not depend on material bread.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Father Tanner: Well, you see, we make a difference between the law and the spirit of the law, or the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. And we can say a man can keep the letter of the law without in any way keeping the spirit of the law.

Prabhupāda: No, that is materially difference. But spiritually...

Father Tanner: Spiritually, that is different.

Prabhupāda: No. Spiritually, the Lord and His name, the Lord and His form, the Lord and His quality, They are all identical.

Devotee: No, but there's a little misunderstanding. Prabhupāda is saying "Lord." Not...

Father Tanner: Oh, you're saying "Lord." I'm sorry. I was saying "law."

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Devotee: Law, law, the command, law.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: When you go to God, you go in your spiritual body.

Father Tanner: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Spiritual body. So...

Father Tanner: But you can be physically healthy...

Prabhupāda: Spiritually, when you get your spiritual body, there is no such material inconveniences. The material inconveniences means so long you have got this material body, you are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. When you revive your spiritual body, these four things are not with you. No more birth, no more death, no more disease, no more old age. This is the difference between spiritual life and material life.

Father Tanner: Yes, I mean, this, I think, anyone who's in any sense spiritual or religious or ethical would admit because the spiritual body has no parts. So it cannot start to be or cease to be and cannot change within his own entity.

Prabhupāda: No, the spiritual body is there already. Just like you have got your body. The coat is made according to your body. You existed first. Your coat was made later on. Similarly, spiritually, we exist eternally. Now, according to our different types of activities, we get a body, material body. There are eight million, four hundred thousand different forms of bodies. So the spirit soul is transmigrating according to his desire and work to different types of body. This is called transmigration of the soul. ...

Father Tanner: You would hold that the spirit is eternal...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Your, these students, they'll be benefited if you...

David Lawrence: I think so.

Prabhupāda: They will benefit. Yes, actually.

David Lawrence: I hope so.

Prabhupāda: And it is the duty of the guardians to see that the children are actually spiritually benefited. There is a verse... Pitā na sa syāt gurur na sa syāt. You have got Bhāgavata?

Pradyumna: It's upstairs.

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata? Find out that. Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter. How it is instructed. If you introduce these literatures in the schools for study—because you are religious teacher-oḥ, it will play...

David Lawrence: I think so. And, you know, we hope to...

Prabhupāda: ...revolution in the spiritual ideas.

David Lawrence: We hope to produce it so cheaply that schools will buy it readily. You know. Almost be, well, you know, not free, but handed out...

Prabhupāda: No, we can give you paperback, cheap edition.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You see the original Sanskrit.

Mahādeva: Here's the text, here's the original Sanskrit. And we have a Roman transliteration, and then individually, the word meanings.

Jesuit Priest: Oh, I see. I've got it, yes.

Mahādeva: And then a full translation.

Jesuit Priest: Translation. Yes. They're marvelous. Yes. Yes.

Revatīnandana: Actually, most of the Sanskrit, much of that work is done by one of Prabhupāda's disciples now. He handles much of the Sanskrit.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are being trained.

Revatīnandana: It's a mechanical process, after all. But the translation, that requires not only knowledge of the language, it requires spiritual realization.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: And the spiritual translation is done by Prabhupāda. Not just from knowledge of Sanskrit, but from spiritually realized knowledge. That is the qualification to put the meaning into any language. You have to have realized the message.

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: The metaphysical search... Now metaphysically search out why do you deny soul in the human being, uh, in the animals? That is metaphysical. It is metaphysical question. What is your metaphysical study about the living, uh, animals that you say there is no soul? Come to the metaphysical then. You are thinking metaphysically. That's all right. But if you are still thinking like animal, then what is the use of your metaphysical studies? If you are thinking like the animals: "Where shall I get my food? Where shall I take shelter? Where shall I have sexual facility? How shall I defend?" If you are thinking like that, this is animal thinking. Metaphysical thinking means beyond this, beyond this thinking of eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is metaphysical thinking. So what you are thinking beyond that? That is God consciousness. When a human being thinks about God, that is metaphysical. When he thinks like animals about eating, sleeping, mating and defending, that is not metaphysical. Metaphysical. What do you mean by metaphysical? How to define? What is the meaning of "meta"? Above physical. That means spiritual. So if you think spiritually, then you'll see. Just like Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa claims: sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). "In all forms of life, the living entities are there, and they are My sons." So this is metaphysical, or if some third-class man says that there is no soul in the animal, that is metaphysical? Which one is metaphysical? Kṛṣṇa speaking will be metaphysical, or a third-class fool's statement will be taken as metaphysical? Which one is metaphysical? First of all say me.

Room Conversation with Graham Hill Former World Champion Race Car Driver -- London, August 26, 1973:

Graham Hill: Are all spiritual bodies the same? I mean, is your spiritual body exactly the same as...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Spiritually you are all the same. Just like as human beings you are all the same but you may have a black dress, I may have a saffron dress, he may have white dress. This is outward covering. This is not myself. Similarly, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within this body the spirit soul is there and he is changing different types of bodies. So when he accepts a process, this going back to home, back to Godhead, to Kṛṣṇa, then he hasn't got to accept any more material body. He remains in his own spiritual body. And spiritual body by original constitution it is eternal. Eternal. Nityaṁ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin. This is a description of it.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata was written five thousand years ago.

David Lawrence: Yes, very, very ancient. Is it to be taken, the references say to Pūtanā, is this to be taken...

Prabhupāda: It is also fact.

David Lawrence: ...physically or spiritually as a demonic power or what?

Prabhupāda: No, no, which one?

David Lawrence: Where, is it the demoness Pūtanā takes Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa sucks her breast?

Śyāmasundara: Should it be taken literally or allegorically?

Prabhupāda: No, literally, literally.

David Lawrence: Yeah, literally as a physical fact.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, oh yes.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Fifty-six. I am seventy-eight. I may be of your father's age.

Guest (1): We are both still boys aren't we?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Spiritually we are young. The body's getting old. Just like your garment, your shirt and coat. It may be torn, but you are not torn. These things are all explained very nicely.

Guest (1): I shall read them.

Prabhupāda: So, in this way, as soon as we understand or become convinced that I am not this body, then spiritual education begins. (If) I am different, then the next question will be, then what for I am working? Naturally at the present moment we are working for this body, maintenance of the body. For eating, sleeping, having facility for sex life or sense gratification and to protect this body from being harmed. This is our business. But if I am not this body, then, I am spirit soul, then the next question will be, what I am doing for the spirit soul? When actually I am working for this body because I, spirit soul, is within this body. Just like we are keeping this room fit for habitation because I am living here. Three months or four months ago we are not in possession of this room. So we were not anxious about this room. Because we were not living. So actually I am keeping my body fit, nice, just to live within this body. Therefore actually I do not love this body, I love myself. And to keep myself in a nice position, I love this room or this house. My main business is to get me, as I am, comfortable. Not that it is my business to keep this house neat and clean only. No. No, my business is to keep myself fit. So actually I love my soul.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You'll have. You like to be bald-headed?

Pearl: (laughs) No, I think I'll keep my hair if you don't mind. I can't give up everything.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Pearl: If my leg could be healed, and I want to advance spiritually.

Prabhupāda: Well, leg, you are different from leg. Yes. Even leg is not healed, you can be healed.

Pearl: You mean healed spiritually.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real healing.

Pearl: Because it's keeping me from things I should be doing you see. I can't meet all my responsibilities through it.

Prabhupāda: Give me little water. When they come to logic, when they give logic. (laughter)

Guest (1): Prabhupāda, they don't want any.

Prabhupāda: That is the dog's obstinacy. That is the mentality.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Banker: No, no, that is what they say here. Especially in my bank. Our clerks are the top five per cent of the nation's income earners, five thousand rupees or more a year, near the top five percent. But they still say that they're poor and happy. But then once a year they forget that when they ask us for more money. I don't understand it. Contradictory philosophy.

Prabhupāda: There are two things. One material, one spiritual. Spiritually, India is happy, those who are actually spiritualists. But materially, India is unhappy. Spiritually, even if you still go in the interior of village, poor man, living in a cottage, he is taking bath three times and doing his professional work, a cultivator, having little food, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. They are happy actually. They have got their family, husband, wife, some children. If one lives spiritual life, he is actually happy. Materially, nobody can be happy. In your country, although there is enough facility for material enjoyment, actually they are not happy. Otherwise why in your country the hippies are coming out? They are coming from respectable, rich parents, nation, but they have given up their home, their father's opulence, mother's opulence. That I have seen practically. Practically all my students... Here, Brahmānanda, his father, at least he was a big industrialist, mother. But he did not like. He joined this movement. Similarly, Girirāja, his father is a big lawyer, rich man. But he did not like that. There are many, many students, their father's are... Śyāmasundara's father is big lawyer, rich man, businessman. He is the only son. But he did not like his father. So there are many... Even though he is not our student, still, I do not know. I have seen in Los Angeles, Beverly Hills. You know? That is a rich quarter. Very nice house. And one boy is coming, he is hippie, and riding on his car and going. Then I saw, although it is such a nice rich quarter, there are also hippies. That I could study. Why these boys are becoming hippies? And New York you know, the hippies are lying here and there in Fifth Avenue, Central Park, and they are worshiping pig. (laughs) You know that?

Banker: Yes, I know.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: ...fear this condition is hopeless.

Prabhupāda: No, not at all. You simply expose these rascals, and everything hopeful. You have to know how to expose these rascals. That's all.

Hṛdayānanda: So the more we preach and chant, the more we become purified.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to become powerful spiritually. Then you'll be able. If you remain weak and manufacture your own way, then it will not be possible.

Hṛdayānanda: Oh. Jaya. (break)

Prajāpati: ...think the strength is our own, though.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prajāpati: We should not think that this is our own strength.

Prabhupāda: No. We have to work by the strength of Kṛṣṇa. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. He'll give, supply the strength. Or, in other words, you have already got the strength. You have to revive it. That's all. Actually, that is the position. As spiritual spark, we have got immense strength. But we are now identifying with this body. (break) ...hill. It was formerly very high. Now why it has gone down? This hill?

Hṛdayānanda: Oh, rocks.

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: If the earning son says, "Father, he is useless, let him... Let me kill him," the father will agree? No. Father is kind to everyone. So similarly, when one is God conscious, if he kills animal, that means he has no sense of God consciousness. He has no sense of God. That is the test. So our propaganda is that you make people God conscious. Then all good qualities will come. Instead of trying to qualify man in so many ways—"You don't become thief, you don't become murderer, you don't become this, don't become this, don't become intoxicant"—simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, he becomes everything, by one stroke. That is our propaganda, that if one becomes God conscious, then he is becoming perfect, not necessarily, materially and spiritually, both. And that is happening practically. Now these boys, these girls, they are Europeans, Americans. They were accustomed to so many bad habits and according to our standard, and now they have given up. They have no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, no intoxication, even up to smoking or drinking tea. Yes. We don't allow our students... Not allow. They become accustomed. Once I say, "Don't do this," they agree. They agree immediately. Intoxication. There were many students, they were habituated to this nowadays intoxican... Immediately gave up. And your government is making so much propaganda to give up this intoxication. They are failure. So a little God consciousness helps so much. And what to speak of when one is perfectly God conscious? Then he's perfect man. Therefore a devotee is not of this material world. He's in the spiritual world. He's above this material world. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26).
Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: The incarnation?

Prabhupāda: Ah. Because the kṣatriyas were not doing exactly, he twenty-one times massacred them. Finish! And those who, kṣatriyas, fled from India, they came to Europe. So the European means they are coming from the kṣatriya descendant, but they have forgotten their own culture. Indo-aryan. (break) ...strong, then there is no doubt he will be able to control all over the world. That's a fact. But we must keep ourself spiritually strong. Āpani ācari prabhu jīve śikhāilā. Just Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was behaving in His life and that He was teaching. (break) ...behave like spiritual man. Then you can teach. If you don't behave, then how you can teach? (break) ...was brought here. It is more important than the Ganges. (break) One side, there is unrestricted sex life, and other side, stop population. But they cannot take this restricted sex life. Only fault! So if you restrict your sex life that "I shall not beget more than one child or two child," then where is the question of this abortion and contra...? But they, that they cannot. They will have unrestricted sex life; at the same time, they will check overpopulation.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda, are thoughts made of matter or spirit?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thoughts actually made by spirit, but it is covered by matter. Therefore in the material condition you can think only of matter. Just like this body is covered by so many material things, but actually, the spirit is covered. So the soul being spirit, so long it is covered by matter, it cannot act spiritually. It is obstructed. Not obstructed. Covered. It cannot be obstructed. If you like, you can get out of the covering of the matter. So matter cannot obstruct. But it is the will of the soul. Therefore it is called taṭastha, marginal.

Prajāpati: When we feel pain or discomfort, that is covering also?

Prabhupāda: That is to the material. Soul has no pain. It is the material covering. Just like this chilliness. We are affected by the body, material body, not the soul. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. This pleasure and pain is due to the material covering. Otherwise soul is unaffected. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ: "This puruṣa, the soul, is unaffected by any material condition." The same example as I give, that you have a good car. You are identifying yourself. But you are not the car. You are affected if the car is smashed, because you have got absorption in the car that "This is my car." The other man is not affected. Similarly, due to our absorption, ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8), "It is my, it is mine," we are suffering.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: In the śruti also they mention that all those yogis and philosophers and, and other developed spiritually, if they have not, they have not been able to really realize what Kṛṣṇa or God is unless they have become bhaktas. But in this only it comes.

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata is (indistinct)

Dr. Patel: In this particular part.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa...

Dr. Patel: I thought Bhāgavata was a book of stories, so I was not reading. I am so truthful to you. That is, I read all, I myself, more than half a dozen times all the, mean, twelve Upaniṣads. But I said, "Bhāgavata why?"

Prabhupāda: No, Bhāgavata is...

Dr. Patel: But I read it in Gujarati...

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata, in the beginning it is said, nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam (SB 1.1.3).

Dr. Patel: That first śloka you explained to me. First śloka.

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Dr. Patel: First.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...flying in mantra.

Dr. Patel: Not, it was not...

Prabhupāda: Now scientific improvement has been done, but that is on the gross material platform.

Dr. Patel: Spiritually, they must be worthy.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not spiritual. That is also subtle. Just like mind, the speed of mind. The mind is material. By mind speed, you can... Just imagine. You are here. Immediately, within a second, you go to Calcutta.

Dr. Patel: Because you think of the thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: First going is mind going.

Prabhupāda: So this is the mind. Similarly, mental, then intellectual,... You are going?

Dr. Patel: No, no. You are going ahead. We have to come to that...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Mind is also material. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ kham. khaṁ manaḥ (BG 7.4).

Dr. Patel: Khaṁ manaḥ eva ca.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are all material.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then? Similarly, one who is always merged in Kṛṣṇa thought, his body is not material.

Dr. Patel: That way you say.

Prabhupāda: Yes! Yes, that is the way.

Dr. Patel: Now I understand.

Prabhupāda: Because his material body is not working. That is stopped. He's working simply spiritually. Therefore his body is spiritual. The same example: it has become so hot, red-hot, that it is no more working as iron rod. It is working as fire.

Dr. Patel: Because it burns anybody who touches it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: So guru also does the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: He electrifies anybody who touches him. So we touch your feet. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Therefore, therefore he has no material body.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Viṣṇujana: Thirty years now.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Thirty years they are struggling for United Nations, big, big expenditure, so many humbug, bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, humbug program, and no result. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I am thinking, I am, only for these rascals. They're making humbug program, but there is no action. And for temporary, so-called happiness, without God consciousness. I am simply thinking of them. Otherwise, personally, I have no problem." This was spoken by Prahlāda Mahārāja to Nṛsiṁha-deva. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). (break) ...business has become like Prahlāda Mahārāja. We can chant anywhere. That's all right. Kṛṣṇa will provide everything. We have no business to do. But we have to take them because we are sympathizer, that so many people are being killed by this modern civilization. They had the opportunity to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, but by the set-up of this rascal civilization, they are being killed spiritually. Therefore we have to take it. (break) ...devotee, personally, he has no problem, but he pushes himself in this degraded society to teach them how to live, how to become gentlemen. Therefore... Otherwise, we have no business. But if we don't give them the opportunity, they'll not be able to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...it will be good for you because Kṛṣṇa will see, "Oh, here is My devotee. He's doing so much for me." Your service will be recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Don't think that because you are teaching a śūdra how to work like this, you have become a śūdra. You are not śūdras, any circumstances. Even though you teach to a śūdra how to work like a śūdra. (break) ...stand. Don't misunderstand. Clearly understand what is the purpose. Is there doubt? Or it is clear?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Let them accept at least like Dhṛtarāṣṭra. That is also good. Therefore Dhṛtarāṣṭra was saved at the end, in spite of so many things. By the help of Vidura, he left home and became successful, because he believed in Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa is God, yes. But I cannot control myself." He admitted his deficiency. Therefore he was liberated. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Because he admitted Kṛṣṇa is God, therefore at the end he was liberated. Mahato bhayāt.

Bhāgavata: But Duryodhana would not admit.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhāgavata: Even though Kṛṣṇa showed His universal form, Duryodhana still did not agree.

Prabhupāda: No, Duryodhana also agreed. All of them got salvation. That is mentioned. Anyone who was in the Battle of Kurukṣetra, all of them got salvation. By their being killed in the battle, they all got liberation and salvation. That is stated by Bhīṣmadeva. Svarūpa. Svarūpa means they came to their original Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All of them. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (break) (Hindi conversation continues for some time) Materially to get bācche (children) you require the help of husband, but spiritually you don't require anyone's help. In Kṛṣṇa only. That's all. (end)

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Uncivilized. A similar thing is happening in India where the civilization is supposed to be so... And actually it is so, but they have become so degraded that a responsible officer in the government, he is saying that "Bhajana is nuisance." You see. He has no knowledge what, how much valuable, spiritually valuable, bhajana is. In the Bhagavad-gītā... Gandhi accepted Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛti... Gandhi was chanting in temple: Raghupati rāghava. So what they are following? Gandhi was against drinking and intoxication. Now they're introducing. So this is the position of the government. Therefore I suggest that according to the word, so far traffic, we are diverting the ways this way. And let people come here, join with bhajana, take prasādam, and they sign, "Yes, there must be a temple here." Let this. And make propaganda that people may come here, and... I am present here. I will speak. The same thing, as it is going on, kīrtana and speaking from Bhagavad-gītā. And after they are convinced, let them sign, "Yes, there must be a temple here." In this way, gather public opinion, one point, that bhajana is not nuisance, essential, we want it, and the other thing, we are making gate in and out to get... Submit a plan like that, that this is... There will be no... That may be a small road, lane, but here is a big road. And purchase that land in front and make a gate. Call a good architects, make a nice gate and road. Take this proposition. Our business is there. If we invite people, "Come..." Even without temple, if it is go on like that, people may come and take prasādam, and they give their consent, "Yes, it is nice," that is sufficient. Even there is no temple. Then, if such way, public opinion's created, and the sanction is there, immediately there will be temple. It may take some time. It doesn't matter. So far satyagraha (?) is concerned, it will be useless. Hungry people, they are making satyagraha, and they are replied with fire, killing them. In Patna it has become so.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: On your personal capacity. Yes.

Guest: I say...

Prabhupāda: Yes, as a public man, as a person, you can do that.

Guest: "As a life member, I am suffering because of this reason that there is no construction of a temple, therefore I cannot develop spiritually."

Prabhupāda: No, you can go to other temples.

Guest: No, if I have got attraction for a particular temple, why I should be denied.

Prabhupāda: Then you are spiritually not improving.

Guest: I beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: Then you are not spiritually improving.

Guest: No, but that is how they will give me reply, and I can tell them.

Prabhupāda: That is not very strong reason.

Guest: No, but what I say, they may be a strong, but I say I am stronger than them.

Prabhupāda: No, that they will understand that because you are one of them and this is the...

Guest: No, no. I...

Prabhupāda: ...that your idea means our idea, carried.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: ...but those people who are hungry...

Prabhupāda: But why you dictate?

Dr. Shah: That's a different thing.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Dr. Patel: I don't dictate!

Prabhupāda: Yes. You say that it should be given to the poor man. You say like that. (break) The spiritual food should be distributed to everyone, without any discrimination.

Dr. Shah: To everyone, without any discrimination! (break)

Prabhupāda: It is meant for spiritual understanding.

Dr. Patel: That's right. That I agree.

Prabhupāda: Prasāde sarva-duḥkhānāṁ hanir asyopajāyate. So anyone who is spiritually poor, he should be given prasādam. It doesn't matter... (break) That, that makes it clear. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu means there is no discrimination... (end)

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Adhyātma. Adhyātma means bodily and mentally.

Chandobhai: Ah, bodily and mentally, yes.

Dr. Patel: Adhyātma? Bodily and mentally?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Chandobhai: Mentally. Spiritually... Inner existence.

Prabhupāda: No. Adhyātmam. Adhyātma. Ātma means body, mind and the soul, but here adhyātma means the body and the mind. That is material nature. The body and mind is made of material nature. (break) ...creation.

Chandobhai: Creation, yes.

Prabhupāda: So by working with the body, we create another creation.

Dr. Patel: Bhūta-bhāvodbhava...

Prabhupāda: Just like now I am a human being. Next life I may be a demigod, I may be a dog. That I create. That is sarga.

Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Personal. So but...

Indian man: Kṛṣṇa has also declared...

Dr. Patel: For personal communication...

Indian man: Kṛṣṇa says that I am both personal, impersonal, and I am above that.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That imperson does not mean that He is not spiritually person. Impersonal means He does not become... That... This description of person, they are not these material persons.

Chandobhai: Ah, then it's all right. Spiritual personality, everyone believes. That's correct. Then there is no rift. Spiritual personality... (break)

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said, avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ manyante mām abuddhayaḥ (BG 7.24). They, these Māyāvādīs, they think, "Originally the Absolute Truth is avyakta. Now He has assumed, Kṛṣṇa, the form, accepting a body of māyā." This is called Māyāvāda. Abuddhayaḥ. They have no intelligence that spiritually the Lord is always vyakti, a person. Either Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa, any way, He is always person.

Girirāja: "He was garlanded gloriously and there were many scents smeared over His body."

Prabhupāda: It is all personal description: "Dress, ornaments, flowers, garlands, scents." This is offered to the person.

Morning Walk -- April 13, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...presence of a brāhmaṇa, of a sannyāsī, in the household, in the house of a householder, means to enlighten. Mahad-vicalanaṁ nṛnām gṛhinām gṛhacet dīna-cetasām. The gṛhasthas, they are very cripple-minded. They are satisfied with the family, and they do not know that anything else to do. Therefore it is the duty of the sannyāsī and the brāhmaṇas to go to the householder's home and enlighten them spiritually. Therefore purohita. Go on. (break) ...pura. Purasara means "in the front", and hita means welfare. So one who conducts welfare of the householder. Guru-purohita. Every family must have guru and purohita for spiritual advancement. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Indian Man (1): For all the vices...

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Girirāja: "In household duties and are forgetting our real duty of self-realization." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...gṛha-medhinām. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Those who are gṛhamedhis and do not know anything else except maintaining the family, they are called gṛhamedhi. And those who cultivating spiritual consciousness in gṛhastha life with family and children, they are called gṛhasthas. That is the difference between gṛhamedhi and gṛhastha. So gṛhamedhi, they have no aim of life, of self-realization. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Nṛnāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ. (break) ...self-realization. Nṛnāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2), who cannot see what is the ātma-tattvam, what is the path of self-realization. Gṛheṣu gṛhamedhinām. Therefore it is the duty of the sannyāsī... Sannyāsī does not mean that he will beg for fulfilling his hungry belly. Sannyāsī means he must enlighten—that is sannyāsī—in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...rājendra nṛnaṁ santi sahasrasaḥ apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2).

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: We have to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness because such consciousness will help us to be free from the contamination of these different types of material consciousness and save us from transmigrating from one body to another. So we accept this different association on account of our strong propensity for sense gratification. Therefore we have to purify the senses so that the senses may be engaged in the service of the master of the senses. Hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate.

sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ
tat-paratvena nirmalam
hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-
sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate
(CC Madhya 19.170)

Bhakti means to be free from all sorts of material designation. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Italian,"—these are all designations of the body. So we have to become free from these designations. And that is called nirmalam, purification. And when we are nirmalam, without any contamination, then we can engage the senses in the service of the master of the senses. Master of the senses is Kṛṣṇa, or God. Actually, He is master of the senses. Just like I am feeling comfort by using this sense, touch sense, hand, in this way, but I am not master because at any moment this hand can be paralyzed. So I am not the master. The master is Kṛṣṇa. So if it is engaged in the service of the master, then it is in its normal condition. And then we are liberated. And this purification you can take very easily by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa—that means immediately associate with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's name and Kṛṣṇa, nondifferent. So as, if we associate with fire it becomes warm, the quality of the fire comes; as it is materially possible, spiritually it is possible in perfect order. Process is the same. You associate with Kṛṣṇa, and you become Kṛṣṇaite, as pure as Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is therefore advising, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So Kirpal Singh also studies Bhagavad-gītā? I am asking this. Kirpal Singh, he teaches on the Bhagavad-gītā?

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Just Like if you come in front of the sunlight, the sun consciousness is there, which includes your personal conscious... you also see. In the darkness you cannot see. At night you do not see even your hands and legs. But if you come in front of the sun, or light, then you see the sun and see yourself. So without the sunlight, without God consciousness, self consciousness is incomplete. But God consciousness makes self consciousness very clear.

O'Grady: Well, a lot of young people that we meet in our teaching profession, we don't try to teach them any kind of didactic salvation. But we do try to direct them towards an awareness of what is best and what is most good for them and what is most spiritually nourishing in the world about them, in so far as the system allows us.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He says among their members, many of them are spiritually inclined So they have investigated the ancient scriptures from China and Mexico, all over the world, and they found that if you go down far enough in the philosophy, it is the same truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes, truth is for everyone—if it is truth. Truth cannot be different. Chinese truth is different from Indian truth. That cannot be. Truth is the truth, provided it is truth. You take something myth as truth—that is different thing. So the truth is that this body is formed on the basis of that spiritual spark. That is the truth.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Swiss Man (2): (French)

Yogeśvara: In other words, he's saying, what we're saying is that spiritually, everyone is equal, which is actually the same as the Christian idea.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritually, not materially. Materially there must be distinction. Materially there must be distinction. But spiritually there is no distinction.

Swiss Man (2): (French)

Yogeśvara: What was his first point?

Guru-gaurāṅga: The point was that in Christianity everyone can become Christian whereas it seems in this only some can become brāhmaṇa. So he is interested what is the path to becoming brāhmaṇa. How does one become brāhmaṇa?

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa means purified. Just like in Christianity also there are ten commandments. If you do not obey the ten commandments, how you can become Christian?

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Pradyumna: "The path of spiritual realization is undoubtedly difficult. The Lord therefore advises us to approach a bona fide spiritual master in the line of disciplic succession from the Lord Himself. No one can be a bona fide spiritual master without following this principle of disciplic succession. The Lord is the original spiritual master, and a person in the disciplic succession can convey the message of the Lord as it is to his disciple. No one can be spiritually realized by manufacturing his own process, as is the fashion of the foolish pretenders. The Bhāgavatam says: dharmaṁ hi sākṣād-bhagavat-praṇītam—the path of religion is directly enunciated by the Lord. Therefore, mental speculation or dry arguments cannot help one progress in spiritual life. One has to approach a bona fide spiritual master to receive the knowledge. Such a spiritual master should be accepted in full surrender, and one should serve the spiritual master like a menial servant, without false prestige. Satisfaction of the self-realized spiritual master is the secret of advancement in spiritual life. Inquiries and submission constitute the proper combination for spiritual understanding. Unless there is submission and service, inquiries from the learned spiritual master will not be effective. One must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master, and when he sees the genuine desire of the disciple, he automatically blesses the disciple with genuine spiritual understanding. In this verse, both blind following and absurd inquiries are condemned. One should not only hear submissively from the spiritual master, but one must also get a clear understanding from him, in submission and service and inquiries. A bona fide spiritual master is by nature very kind toward the disciple. Therefore when the student is submissive and is always ready to render service, the reciprocation of knowledge and inquiries becomes perfect."

Prabhupāda: We have started a gurukula in Dallas. Small children are being trained up. Just like formerly there was brahmacārī āśrama. (aside:) Those ladies, they have come? No? If there are any inquiries. (break) ...record?

Devotee: Which record?

Bhagavān: From this afternoon, the recording.

Devotee: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: He says Zen Buddhism is also a kind of treatment.

Prabhupāda: But if you do not know what is the goal of the treatment, then how the treatment will be successful? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says we may choose a goal for ourselves spiritually, but after all, we're the ones who chose the goal, so it's all an individual question.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not choosing, God is asking to do this. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says therefore we don't have to worry about what's the result. We just have to practice without being attached to the result.

Prabhupāda: No, without result, why should I practice unnecessarily? (aside) Go. Take sleep. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says the religious life is not a bargain between God and him. He says we just have to practice without gaining, without waiting for any result, without praying...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not so fool, without any result we are going to do anything. We are not so fool.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: The thing is he doesn't understand the analogy with spiritual and material.

Prabhupāda: Analogy is, means where there is no spiritual sensation, that is matter. (French)

Karandhara: It's just merely meant to be an illustration, not that you're supposed to compare everything all the way around. The body is also material; the nail is also material. The point is that that which is not sensed spiritually by the true identity of the soul, that which is experienced outwardly by the material body and the senses, that is matter. But the basic element, or the basic consciousness is spiritual, and that's eternal. Whereas the sensation from outward, like what I see today and taste today, that is temporary, but the taster, the seer, he is eternal, the self. (French)

Prabhupāda: As soon as that spirit soul will be off from this body, this part of the body also will be without any sensation. Therefore the distinction of sensation and no sensation is due to the presence of the spirit soul. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says the important thing is the basic principles. If you accept the basic principle, for example that the soul has a form, then we can discuss many many things afterwards.

Prabhupāda: Yes, soul has a form.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: "Birds of the same feather." (laughter)

Bishop Kelly: Oh, yes. Your Grace, there is one thing I wish to ask you. Do you believe in some sort of universal but inherent deficiency in human nature, in other words, that man irrespective of his environment, irrespective of where he comes from, that he has, he is prone to evil? In the Catholic church we call that original sin. Original sin is an inherited deficiency in which man is turned away from God rather than turned towards God, and that he holds within himself a seed of failure in..., spiritually, and also a seed of unreliability so that the very makeup of man demands the enlightening touch and the helping hand of God so that he may overcome his inherent and abiding deficiency. So we hold that that is the nature of things, that man... It's not just a good thing or an advisable thing that man reaches out to and for God, but it is a necessary thing, that God not merely is there to improve upon what you might say would be a natural goodness of man, but man has a natural deficiency he needs God to overcome. And as he overcomes, of course, he progresses further and he is enriched by God. But we hold that very clearly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in one of the Vedic literature, that:

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema sādhya kabhu naya
śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya
(Cc. madhya 22.107)

The inherent principle is eternally a fact, his obedience to God. But artificially he has covered it, artificially. The God consciousness is there in everyone, but by so-called material advancement, he has forgotten. He has his obedience to God, natural. Even the aborigines in the forest, they also submit to the manifestation of God's different energies. As soon as there is some lightning and there is thunderbolt, they immediately... They offer obeisances. As soon as they see a big sea, ocean, they offer obeisances. So that is inherent. But due to the material association it is covered.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Well, if one is weak, he may be infected by some disease. It requires some resisting power. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that, your answer, that "Only the fortunate person, they can get the shelter of bona fide spiritual master." Kona bhāgyavān jīva. Not all, kona. Kona means some.

Devotee (1):. Some, yes. Kona bhāgyavān...

Prabhupāda: Jīva. So as there are bhagavān—somebody is rich, somebody is poor; this is also due to fortune or misfortune—similarly, if one is spiritually fortunate he gets a bona fide spiritual master.

Guest (2): Do you have any opinions about some of the other Indian masters who have been...

Prabhupāda: That I have already said, that unless one is bona fide servant of God, he cannot become master.

Guest (2): I mean specific people like Guru Maharaji.

Prabhupāda: So Guru Maharaji says that he is God himself. Then he's a bogus. How he can be God? God is so cheap? So only the foolish person will accept him. Those who have no knowledge.

Guest (2): Maharshi Mahesh?

Prabhupāda: I think he doesn't speak anything about God.

Guest (3): No. He's teaching the transcendental meditation.

Prabhupāda: He speaks something of material prosperity. So He has nothing to do with God.

Devotee (1): It's just a kind of training of mind.

Prabhupāda: That's it. Just like gymnastic. You exercise; you become bodily strong. That's all.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Origin of pain means as soon as you come to the material world, is the origin of pain. Just like the... It can be appreciated very nicely. Just like water. Water is sometimes painful, and sometimes pleasing. Is it not? Do you agree or not? No, I just try to... Water is the same thing, but sometimes it is painful and sometimes it is pleasing, is it not? So how the same thing becomes pleasing and painful? This is circumstantial. The same thing is pleasing and the same thing is painful under different circumstances. Similarly, fire. Fire is sometimes pleasing and sometimes painful. The fire is the same, but circumstantially, it becomes painful and pleasing. Just like in winter season the fire is pleasing. And in summer season the same fire is painful. Now, these feelings of pains and pleasure is due to this material body. Therefore the material body is the cause of pains and pleasure. So if you do not get this material body—you remain in your spiritual body—then there is no more pains and pleasure. So that means the origin of pains and pleasure is to our attachment to this material body. If we can somehow or other get out of this material body, then there is no more pains and pleasure or it is simply pleasure. Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, ānandamāyaḥ abhyāsāt. "By nature the spirit soul is joyful." In the Bhagavad-gītā it is also said, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati: (BG 18.54) "As soon as you become spiritually self-realized, then there is no more pains and pleasure." So pleasure means absence of pain. So in your spiritual identity there is no pain, therefore it is simply pleasure. Therefore our endeavor should be how to get our again original spiritual body. Spiritual body is there already. It is covered by the material body, but some way or other, if we stop the covering of the material body, then we are simply in pleasure. Therefore our only attempt in this human body should be how to revive our spiritual body. And that process is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That... Open that verse, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9).

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (7): The young children also? What about young children?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Young children should be educated from the very beginning about God consciousness or the science of God. We had the opportunity in our childhood. My father taught. And then, when I was grown up, my spiritual master taught. So for that reason we have got some sense. Spiritual education should be given...

kaumāra ācaret prājño
dharmān bhāgavatān iha
durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma
tad apy adhruvam arthadam
(SB 7.6.1)

This is statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was a five-years-old boy and a devotee. So he was trying to preach amongst his classfellows. The classfellows said, "Why you are bothering about spiritual consciousness, God consciousness, now? We are young men. Let us play." He said, "No. The spiritual life should begin kaumāra, just at the beginning of five years." Why? Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma: "This human form of life is very rarely obtained, and we do not know when we shall die. So before our next death we must be spiritually equipped. That is the business of human life." There is no guarantee when death will come. A child may also die tomorrow. There is no guarantee. Therefore spiritual education should begin as soon as a child can understand something. Because there is no guarantee that he will remain for many years. There is no guarantee.

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Reporter: The answer should come from you and not from me.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The real service is... Suppose you open hospital. You can cure for the time being some disease, but can you give me, can you give him any assurance that he will not die? Can you protect him from death? In spite of your all big, big hospitals, can you protect humanity from death, from birth, from old age, from disease? Can you?

Reporter: Physically, of course not, only spiritually.

Prabhupāda: Ah. That we are giving. That we are giving you, that no more death, no more birth, no more old age, and no more disease.

Reporter: But couldn't your disciples perform all the wonderful things that you have them do and at the same time provide outer material service?

Prabhupāda: They are doing. They are doing. What they are not doing? They are doing all service. We have got this body. We have to maintain this body. We are doing everything. We are also eating, we are also sleeping, as you are eating, we are sleeping. Where is the difference? We also allow sex, but not illicit sex. We allow eating, but no meat-eating. That is the difference. We are also eating, as you are eating. We are sleeping, as you are sleeping. Where is the difference?

Reporter: Perhaps only in some perceptions.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: You will feel. Go on chanting. Just like if you drink water, then you will feel that "My thirsty... thirstiness is gone."

Reporter: Oh. But it's the same body doing it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if you chant "Kṛṣṇa," then you will be spiritually realized.

Reporter: That's all the questions I have.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Reporter: Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: So this is very important movement. Try to understand and broadcast it. It is not a sectarian, so-called religious movement. It is a scientific movement.

Reporter: You mean this movement in the world?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And all our books, they are very nicely being accepted...

Reporter: Yeah, I have some of them.

Prabhupāda: ...by high-class professors, universities, libraries. They are all accepting. You will be surprised to know that we are selling books, according to our Indian currency, twenty lakhs of rupees per month. Out of that, we are spending eight to ten lakhs for all our centers.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: 1918? In that year I was married. I was student at that time. I was student, 1900 up to '20. Then I joined Gandhi's noncooperation movement and gave up my education. His points were to give up English education, English court, English-manufactured goods, in this way.

Ambassador: How did you feel about Gandhiji spiritually?

Prabhupāda: He was a good gentleman, that's all. He had no spiritual asset.

Ambassador: That's what I wondered. I never met him. I don't know. But he said himself, "I may be a saint among politicians, but I'm a politician among saints." (laughs)

Prabhupāda: He said or the governor said? Anyway, it is... Mr. Casey from Australia—he was governor of Bengal—he said, I think, that thing. His study was like that. He was a politician, that's all.

Ambassador: But God uses whatever material is there and He used him.

Prabhupāda: No, it was God's desire. You see? Without His desire, otherwise how such a vast British power could be driven away by the noncooperation movement? Of course, it was very nicely planned because the Britishers were ruling over India by the cooperation of the Indian.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: According to... No, why according? This is fact. Religion which is not on the samyavāda, that is not religion. That is some mental concoction. This samyavāda platform is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, as I have quoted already, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). When one is spiritually realized, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ, and the symptom is prasannātmā. So when one is prasannātmā, naturally he is on the samyavāda platform. On the material platform, nobody is prasannātmā. Nobody.

Guest: But on the spiritual platform, everybody?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual platform means prasannātmā. That is the distinction. And the material platform means nobody is satisfied. A man, millionaires, he is also committing suicide.

Guest: But do you think that all men can stand on the spiritual platform?

Prabhupāda: All men can stand or not stand—that is a different question. The fact is this. Suppose if I say, "Unless you become a graduate, you cannot enter law college." Now this question does not arise that whether everyone will be graduate. But this is the condition. This is the condition. Anyone who fulfills this condition, he can be admitted.

Meeting with GBC -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...otherwise, we recommend everyone become sannyāsa. What is the use of not becoming? (all laugh) We are giving up this world. We are preparing ourself for entering into the family of Kṛṣṇa. So why should we be very much anxious to maintain this family. So actually... Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says; "I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a gṛhastha. I'm not a brahmacārī." These four, eight varṇāśrama-dharma is unnecessary for spiritually. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was speaking with Rāmānanda Rāya... You'll find in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya... As soon as he suggested varṇāśrama-dharma, Rāmaṇanda Rāya, immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "It is not very important. If you know better than this, you go on." He did not give any, much stress on this varṇāśrama-dharma. But for regulated life, that is required. And ultimately, it is not required. So it is not recommended for ordinary persons. But this is also unnecessary. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching is so sublime, that such things, which is the beginning of human life, that is also unnecessary. Iha bahya age kaha ara. Bahya means "this is superflous. You speak something higher than this." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So that is not very easy thing. First of all, we have to live very regulated life. Sannyāsa life is that regulated life. And then we can enter into the real life. That is ideal. So anything more?

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Materialistic means that is the ultimate end of materialistic life. Because they want new pleasure, new pleasure, new pleasure, so sometimes this, sometimes that... Sometimes they think the civilized way is better; sometimes the uncivilized way is better. That's all, this way and that way. That is called punaḥ punaś ca... And then you'll take again to civilized way of... I think some of the hippies are taking now. Yes. Because the same example, stool, this side or that side, it is stool. So these materialistic persons, they are trying to change from this side to that side, but it is stool. That is the... That they do not know. They are accepting stool as something very sublime, and therefore they are trying to change the position, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Hitvā anyathā rūpam. This is anyathā rūpam, means a living being. Being spiritual, his business is spiritual, but he has accepted material as the platform of his happiness. That is his fault. So material thing, either this side or that side, it is material. Bhoga-tyāga. So therefore he is not happy. And we are trying to give him spiritual platform for happiness. That is real happiness. But he is so much attached to the material happiness that he cannot believe that there can be any happiness beyond this range. That is his ignorance, mūḍha. Therefore we call them mūḍha, rascals. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "When you become spiritually realized, then prasannātmā, happiness." Otherwise it is not possible. Material thing, you take this side or that side—there is no question of happiness. When you become brahma-bhūtaḥ, spiritually realized, then there is happiness, prasannātmā, immediately. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54).

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was noticing that yesterday on the parade, everyone was offering respects.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Vṛndāvana after all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that is a benefit spiritually.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To offer you respects.

Bhagavān: In Bombay, even those poor fisherwomen...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are offering respects. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we have to create divine because the world is full of devils.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we have to be divine ourselves.

Prabhupāda: Unless you become divine, how you can convert others to divine? If you are devil, you will convert others to become devil, that's all. (break) ...most beautiful.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They may be very strong, our tiger and elephant, but they have no capacity to accept any education. Then?

Brahmānanda: "But in human society, even though one may be a low-grade member of the society, he can be trained up to be purified as a first-class brāhmaṇa. It only requires training. Therefore, manava-dharma means to impregnate a human being with spiritual knowledge. A human being must be educated spiritually. That means he must know that he is not this body. Kṛṣṇa teaches this idea in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

This is the beginning of spiritual education, that every one of us is not this body. Unfortunately the whole world is in darkness, and therefore every human is identifying with this body and thinking wrongly, 'I am Indian,' 'I am American,' 'I am brāhmaṇa,' 'I am this,' 'I am that.' To drive away this misconception of life is actually manava-dharma. We must know that we are not this body but spirit soul, and as such, we are part and parcel of God and therefore qualitatively one with God, exactly like a small particle of gold is also gold as is the gold from the big gold mine. But quantitatively the particle of gold is not equal to the gold in the mine. This is very elaborately described in the Bhagavad-gītā, and if we accept these principles of Bhagavad-gītā as manava-dharma, then the whole world will appreciate. And this is being done by our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Point Five: Elements in our tradition relating to dharma and saṁsṛti which are useful and wholesome but which are being discarded in practice, and those which may be considered to be unsuitable in the present times. Number Five: Regarding elements in our tradition relating to dharma and saṁsṛti..."

Prabhupāda: This kind of understanding at the present time, at the present time... (Hindi) So we give reference, that "Present time, everyone is fallen." But truth is always the same, not at present time. So the real truth is that ideal man of character there must be. Because at the present moment there is no character, there is no moral education, therefore we have to adapt according to them, no. The pukka moralist, he must be moralist. It doesn't matter that "People at the present time, they do all immoral activities; therefore we have to adjust." No. Strictly one should be moralist. There is no question of present time or past time. That should be real point of view.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: "Six: Injunctions of śāstras regarding charity and how it should be practiced in the present conditions. So the mutual relationship of dharma and politics in the light of our history and tradition can only be revived when we observe the system of varṇāśrama. It is actually like this: the brāhmaṇa is like the head, and the kṣatriya is like the arms, the vaiśya is the stomach or the abdomen, and the śūdra is like the legs. Similarly, spiritually, the brahmacārī is the trained-up disciple, the gṛhastha is the trained-up householder, the vānaprastha is experienced as a retired gentleman, and the sannyāsī is completely in the renounced order of life for spiritual advancement. There is no question of the head being in an exalted position without the cooperation of the leg. When there is a pin-prick in some part of the leg, the head immediately takes it very seriously and takes out the thorn in some part of the leg. Similarly, whenever there is some outside attack, the arms or the hands spread to protect the whole body. In the same way, within the abdomen there is the machinery of digesting foodstuffs, and after digestion the secretion turns into blood and it is infused throughout the whole anatomical structure of the body. Similarly, the cooperation between the head, arms, stomach and legs is the perfect situation of the human society."

Governor: Coordination.

Prabhupāda: Coordination. As head is also trying to maintain the body nicely, this arm is also. Now this has been nationally centralized. So that is the idea. Not that "Because I am head, brāhmaṇa, oh, here is a śūdra. Oh, don't see his face." Why? Śūdra is also required. Leg is also required. Head is also required.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Purport: "Śrīla Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa, a great commentator on the Bhagavad-gītā, writes as follows: ye indrādy-aṅgatayāvasthitaṁ yajñaṁ sarveśvaraṁ viṣṇum abhyarcya tac-cheṣam aśnanti tena tad deha-yātrāṁ sampādayanti, te santaḥ sarveśvarasya bhaktāḥ sarva-kilbiṣair anādi-kāla-vivṛddhair ātmānubhava-pratibandhakair nikhilaiḥ pāpair vimucyante(?). The Supreme Lord, who is known as the yajña-puruṣaḥ, or the personal beneficiary of all sacrifices, is the master of all demigods who serve Him as the different limbs of the body serve the whole. Demigods like Indra, Candra, Varuṇa, etc., are appointed officers who manage material affairs, and the Vedas direct sacrifices to satisfy these demigods so that they may be pleased to supply air, light and water sufficiently to produce food grains. When Lord Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, the demigods, who are different limbs of the Lord, are also automatically worshiped; therefore there is no separate need to worship the demigods.

For this reason, the devotees of the Lord, who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, offer food to Kṛṣṇa and then eat—a process which nourishes the body spiritually. By such action not only are past sinful reactions in the body vanquished, but the body becomes immunized to all contamination of material nature. When there is an epidemic disease, an antiseptic vaccine protects a person from the attack of such an epidemic. Similarly, food offered to Lord Viṣṇu and then taken by us makes us sufficiently resistant to material affection, and one who is accustomed to this practice is called a devotee of the Lord. Therefore, a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, who eats only food offered to Kṛṣṇa, can counteract all reactions of past material infections, which are impediments to the progress of self-realization. On the other hand, one who does not do so continues to increase the volume of sinful action, and this prepares the next body to resemble hogs and dogs, to suffer the resultant reactions of all sins.

The material world is full of contamination, and one who is immunized by accepting prasādam of the Lord, food offered to Viṣṇu, is saved from the attack, whereas one who does not do so becomes subjected to contamination. Food grains or vegetables are factually eatables. The human being eats different kinds of food grains, vegetables, fruits, etc., and the animals eat the refuse of the food grains and vegetables, grass, plants, etc. Human beings who are accustomed to eating meat and flesh must also depend on the production of vegetation in order to eat the animals. Therefore, ultimately, we have to depend on the production of the field and not on the production of big factories. The field production is due to sufficient rain from the sky, and such rains are controlled by demigods like Indra, sun, moon, etc., and they are all servants of the Lord. The Lord can be satisfied by sacrifices; therefore, one who cannot perform them will find himself in scarcity—that is the law of nature.

Yajña, specifically the saṅkīrtana-yajña prescribed for this age, must be therefore performed to save us at least from scarcity of food supply."

Prabhupāda: Did you follow? So the only remedy is that you should perform yajña. And this yajña is, in this age, yajña, performance of yajña, is very costly affair. At the present moment, things are not available. So you should perform yajña. If you don't perform yajña, then nature will restrict supply and put so many impediments. That yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ... (BG 3.14). If you regularly perform yajña, then there will be sufficient rainfall. There is sufficient water. Just like all around there is water. There is no scarcity of water. But you cannot touch it without God's intervention. The same water will be converted into cloud and will be distributed on the land, and the water again glide down to the reservoir of water. This is nature's way. But if you do not perform yajña, this machine will not work to get water from the sea, convert into cloud, and then distribute. This will be restricted.

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is said here, that if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then after giving up this body—this is material body, you have to give up—so you are not coming again in the womb of another material mother. You are transferred to the spiritual world by nature's law. They do not know the subtle laws which is going on underneath. They are simply concerned superficially. Because they have no knowledge of the spirit soul—they think the body is everything—so therefore knowledge is imperfect. Body is only the covering. Real person is the spirit soul. So the modern education has no knowledge of this.

Mother: But most people are materialistically minded, aren't they? There's very few that aren't.

Gaṇeśa: Most people are materialistically minded. Not many people are spiritually inclined.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the defect of the modern civilization.

Mother: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And therefore they are suffering.

Sister: How can you get back to Godhead...

Prabhupāda: That is stated here. You try to understand Kṛṣṇa and go back to home, back to Godhead.

Sister: Yeah, how can you follow it if you've never been exposed to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: The book is there.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: "God is great," means whatever greatness, just as sky is the great, there are millions of sky, that is God's...

Jesuit: That's all in the material world.

Prabhupāda: Material and spiritual, we both speak. "God is great," means He's materially great and spiritually great. That is His greatness. If you think that He's spiritually great and materially small, that is not great. That is not greatness.

Jesuit: You know, in the Bible it says God knows everybody yet and knows them by name.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is greatness. That is His greatness.

Jesuit: A knowing person...

Prabhupāda: You know yourself or you know myself, but you cannot know everyone.

Jesuit: That's right.

Prabhupāda: But God knows everyone.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So immediately to solve all the problems like this is to start an institution to train four classes of men. Begin it. There is no training, how you can expect if you allow a child to smoke from the very beginning and to commit all kinds of sinful activities, how you can expect a nice gentleman when he is grown up? It is not possible. It is possible by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But somebody may not be induced to come and join. But if you train him from the very beginning, then it is possible. Just like we have got our training school, Gurukula, in Dallas, Texas. So from the very beginning, three years, four years, five years old, children they are being trained up. It is not that cent percent men will be trained up spiritually. But even a small percentage ideal men there are in the society, at least people will think, "Oh, here is ideal." But there is no such facility. We are training, sometimes people laugh, "What is this nonsense?" They criticize.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. The followers may think of Him. Man-manā. "You become My devotee, become My devotee and worship Me and offer respect to Me," that's all. So we are teaching our student, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, always think of Him. You just offer your respect and worship Him. In this way become His devotee." We do not... Spiritually, thing is (?) (indistinct) That's all right. And they are doing that and they are getting the result. We do not say that "Sit down, press your nose, and meditate and this, that," or, no. Simple thing. There is God, we have got our temple... (Aside:) Don't make now this sort of thing.... Simple thing. We have got our temple. We say that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Here is God. And think of Him." As soon as you chant "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa..." Everyone has got the beads. That means you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. And then we are offering respect, go to the temple and offer our obeisance, very simple thing. So we accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if you don't accept, then you must have your own God. Do that. But the followers of Vedic principle, they will accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). I think somebody was telling me that Guru Nanak also accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme father. Is it a fact? I do not know.

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: He is a rascal. He is becoming rascal, day by day. Stop him doing these things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he's influencing other people. The whole temple in Laguṇa Beach, they were doing this.

Prabhupāda: Then, what can I do? You are all GBCs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now that we know, we'll take action.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Revatinandana is becoming less and less spiritually. He had good potency, but he is losing that.

Devotee (1): You said that if we fast and we can't do our work and we become weak, than this is not so good.

Prabhupāda: This is not good, "not so" not, absolutely bad.

Devotee (1): So, our devotional service comes first?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: By physiological condition. Just like you are. Your bodily features are different from the man's features. You cannot deny it. So according to the bodily features, the psychological condition and everything is there. How you can deny it?

Woman reporter: Do you think that I am inferior to you?

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of inferior or superior. Different. Now you take one inferior or superior. That is your calculation. But the bodily features are different. That is material. But spiritually, they are all one. Materially... Just like your bodily feature and a man's bodily feature is different. Now, so far question of inferior, superior, that is your calculation. But we say that by nature, a woman and man is different.

Woman reporter: What does this mean as far as whether women can do the same things that men can do, or whether women can lead people?

Prabhupāda: Well, women can bear children, but the man cannot. Is it possible to bear children? A man can become pregnant? Is it possible?

Woman reporter: No.

Prabhupāda: Physically... Therefore there are so many things which is possible in man and which is not possible in woman, by nature. How you can say that they are of the same nature?

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But everyone can become devotee. There is no harm. It is not that because one is in the lower species, he cannot become a devotee. Everyone can become a devotee. (break) ...yoni, they can also become perfect devotee. (break) This is the power of God. He can deliver anyone without any consideration. Therefore paṇḍita is sama-darśinaḥ, he does not make these divisions. He sees that "He is spirit soul. So let him be delivered." That's all. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśināh (BG 5.18). Materially there is division. He is black, he is white, he is this, he is that. This is material. Spiritually, there is no division. One. (break) They make, what is called, spiritual division also. That is their foolishness. Spiritually there is no division. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So you can write that spiritually, there is no such distinction. Spiritually, Kṛṣṇa says that "Although there is distinction in the material field, low and high, but one who takes shelter of Me..." Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ, striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās. Find out this verse.

Brahmānanda:

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatiṁ
(BG 9.32)

"O son of Pṛthā, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth—women, vaiśyas, merchants, as well as śūdras, workers—can approach the supreme destination. Purport. It is clearly declared here by the Supreme Lord that in devotional service there is no distinction between the lower or higher classes of people. In the material... (break) ...than great jñānīs and yogis."

Jagadīśa: But this point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very difficult to understand, and it will only be possible for a very few persons to grasp this truth. Therefore you are encouraging us to introduce the proper social system so that gradually people may understand. Otherwise they could never accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is understood by the first-class men. In the social system, if we don't keep a first-class man, a section, then it will not be possible, socially. Or if next alternative, that everyone agrees to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then it will be possible. That is the simplest method. You become first-class or last class; it doesn't matter. You take to this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then you become equally in spiritual consciousness. So it is already published in the paper?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is my Guru Mahārāja.

Woman: And he is no longer living.

Prabhupāda: No.

Woman: He spoke to you spiritually?

Prabhupāda: So this is my (indistinct). That's all.

Woman: At what point was it that he told you to do this? It was very late in your life that you...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. When I was twenty-five years old I met him first. On the first meeting he ordered me to this. So at that time I was married man. I had two children. So I thought, "I shall do it later on." But I was trying to get out of family life. It took some time. But I was trying my best to carry out his order. In 1944 I started magazine, Back to Godhead, when I was gṛhastha. Then I started writing books in 1958 or '59. In this way in 1965 I came to your country.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: We can see one material example, that the sun, for millions and trillions of years it is distributing sunshine, heat, but still it is full. If it is possible materially, what about the Supreme Lord? Five thousand years or five millions of years the degree of temperature in the sunshine was the same as it is now. If it is materially so possible how much it is possible spiritually?

Prof. Hopkins: Is that... It's difficult for people outside the Kṛṣṇa consciousness group to see what the purpose of the movement is.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prof. Hopkins: It's difficult for people outside the society of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to see what the purpose is. How would you understand the purpose? Simply to make God known? How would you state...

Prabhupāda: Our purpose is how to become happy. Everyone is struggling how to become happy. Somebody is thinking that "If I can get money then I'll be happy." Somebody is thinking that "If we become one with the Supreme, then I'll be happy." And somebody thinks that "If I can get material power, then I'll be happy." So those who are thinking in terms of money, they are karmīs. And those who are thinking in terms of becoming one, they are jñānīs. And those who are thinking in terms of getting material power, they are yogis. But the bhaktas, they don't want any such perfection.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Guest: Do you think that this hinders with their development?

Prabhupāda: No. Spirit soul is the same thing either in wealthy man or poor man. The spirit soul is not different. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
(BG 5.18)

If Yogananda thinks like that—"Only rich man is able to practice yoga"—that is wrong. A poor man can also practice yoga. Because yoga means connecting, linking up with the Supreme. So as spirit soul, everyone is fit to connect himself with the Supreme. That is the statement in the Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class self-realization, when one tries to connect himself with the Supreme. And the Supreme can be connected by anyone. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). According to Vedic philosophy, one becomes poor on account of his sinful activities. So pāpa-yoni... So although he has taken birth in a degraded family or poor family, spiritually he is pure. Simply one has to revive his spiritual consciousness. And that cannot be checked by any material condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. Spiritual self-realization cannot be checked by any material condition. So why? Rather, opulent condition is not favorable for practicing yoga. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Those who are too much attached to material enjoyment, they cannot practice yoga.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...village... (Bengali) ...the cooperation... (Bengali) I like this position, dictatorship. Personally I like this. (Bengali) ...America... (Bengali) "What is your opinion about this?" Must criti... Yes, criticized policy of Indira Gandhi. (Bengali) ...is spiritually inclined. If she improves, it will be perfect. She wants to be improved.

Lalitā: This should be taken with...

Bhavananda: A most important piece of paper.

Prabhupāda: "Barefoot Swami draws admiring Kṛṣṇa crowd." And... Read that portion. (Bengali)

Lalitā: (Bengali) ...most prominent person in U.S. is Prabhupāda.

Brahmānanda: "Asked about the political situation in his native India and the criticized actions of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, the swami replied that 'Mrs. Gandhi is inclined to some spiritual understanding, and if she fully develops it the situation will improve. Democracy is not much beneficial if its leaders have no spiritual values. Mahatma Gandhi was practically a dictator, but he was a man of high moral character, so people accepted him. Dictatorship can be good provided the dictator is spiritually developed.' "

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Lalitā: You take this benefit. (Bengali) ...spiritually conscious, everything will be... (Bengali) But if it is the nasty things, the nasty and...

Prabhupāda: Politically it will be failure, but spiritually it will be successful.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...she is spiritually inclined, therefore... (Bengali) "I know Mrs. Gandhi is spiritually inclined." (Bengali) By 1928 Jawaharlal Nehru, Congress President... (Bengali) "Dear Panditji, I want to go to Congress as a delegate. Please give me delegate ticket." (Bengali) "You don't require any ticket. You come here. You'll get it." Delegate's seats are... (Bengali)

Lalitā: You born... When Guru Maharaj born... (Bengali)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: 1896.

Lalitā: Somebody has reported that he is American and this and that.

Prabhupāda: No. (Bengali) ...Calcutta janma... (Bengali)

Lalitā: I told you that Mr. Mani is Sai Baba's bhakta. So he is harassing, sending a letter and all. It's not especial any, that "Send to the member of ISKCON. They must leave." No. There is no report like that, but they are sending to say that he should learn and come to the Mr. Mani's bhakta of Sai Baba. (Bengali) There is nothing special. So if you are feeling better, then tomorrow or the day after tomorrow... (Bengali) ...can I mention that you must fit to see?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Bengali) You know that? (Bengali) Between twelve to end of the day. (Bengali) Indira Gandhi... (Bengali) ...position plus spiritual knowledge, it will play wonderful in the world. (Bengali) Third-class, fourth-class rogue, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Rājarṣayo. He must be royalty, at the same time great sage, saintly person. Then he will understand.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Lalitā: (Bengali) She is very cunning.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) She is spiritually inclined. She goes to so many spiritual men, but they cannot give her guidance. That means she has some inclination. That I can understand. Just like these for..., American boys, they are after spiritual enlightenment and all the swamis and yogis who went there simply exploited them because they have no knowledge, neither they are prepared to take knowledge from the authority, Kṛṣṇa. That is their defect. That is their defect.

Lalitā: They have become Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore they could not give any...

Lalitā: Everybody is Bhagavān.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Brahmānanda: Usually it's between the priests and the nuns.

Prabhupāda: Unless one is actually spiritually situated, this material center of happiness, maithunādi, that will go anywhere. You give any color, spiritual or religious or political. You see? Why Gandhi's āśrama failed? Do you know that? This is... When Gandhi was in jail, when he came back he saw all pregnant. You did not know that?

Kartikeya: No, we imagined, but we don't have information.

Prabhupāda: That what... Gandhi said, "What is this āśrama?"

Indian man (1): No, but Gandhi... He is well known, very well known.

Prabhupāda: He is well known.

Indian man (1): Including mother Desai and all, there were lot of complaints and countercomplaints.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It cannot be. You cannot stop the sex unless you are fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not possible. And that is the material bondage. In the material prisonhouse they have got so many means-big, big walls, handcuff, chain—but nature is so perfect that simply give you a beautiful woman, and you are all prisoner. Big wall, handcuff and chain—everything is complete. I think I have discussed in my recent purports.

Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Hindi. (Hindi) You read it thoroughly and you explain it either in English or Hindi, as you think befitting to your friends. So we have got so many literatures in French language. We are also asking some men from Europe. That will create some impression. Yes. White elephant. (laughter) Dancing. Everyone will purchase ticket. Yes. (Hindi) Bring some white elephant. So literature is there. But one thing is that you must be placed in sadācāra, well behaved. So you have to sacrifice, especially your long hair. And if you sacrifice your hair, we can export it and get some money. (laughter) Because in Western countries they want these hairs to make wigs. Yes. So just... (Hindi) As they have been trained up to rise early in the morning, this will give you spiritual strength. If you simply becomes a gramophone speaker, then it will not be effective. Gramophone or tape record speaker, that will not be. You must be live speaker. Your living condition should be spiritually, what is called, surcharged. So that means you must be trained up how to rise early in the morning, take your bath, cleanse yourself, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then you will be spiritually strong. When you are spiritually strong, if you speak something on spiritual subject matter, then it will be effective. Otherwise it will be just like tape record playing. So this is required. And you should... You are asking something?

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Africa, one side Atlantic, one side Indian. (break) ...is growing on the sand, and they say there is no life in the sand. (break—windy beach) ...Bhoga. Bhoga means sense gratification, and aiśvarya, opulence. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām: (BG 2.44) "Those who are lost of consciousness, such persons become attached to sense gratification and material opulence," bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām, "and not interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Vyavasāyātmikā-buddhiḥ: "How to become spiritually liberated, they do not care for it." These things do not interest them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We're finding that most of our devotees, though, are coming from America. America is the most opulent place.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not most coming. Some coming. The American population is very great. If most would have come, then things would have been different.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Some of the fortunate persons like you, you are coming. Kona, kona, "some fortunate." Kona bhāgyavān jīva. But you can convert them to become fortunate. Devotee can do that. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām. They are thinking very much advanced, but they are lost of their sense, lost of their intelligence. They think of us as foolish. We do not enjoy life. (laughter) And we think of them as animals. This is the position. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām.

vyavasāyātmikā buddhir
ekeha kuru-nandana
bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca
buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām
(BG 2.41)

"Those who are spiritually fixed up, their determination is one, and those who are not fixed up, their mind is diverted in so many things, unnecessary things." (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...vādīs have given the philosophy that "Yes, vyavasāyātmikā-buddhir ekeha, make the intelligence one, but you can think of anything. You can think of a rock, you can think of the sky."

Prabhupāda: You rascal. Anything... Anything one. So if I think of hell, will that do?

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) They fight among themselves for nothing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are keeping them cats and dogs by education, culture, and they want to be happy. How it is possible? First of all let them come to the standard of human being. Then there is question of peace and happiness. They are kept as cats and dogs, and how there can be peace? You cannot make any peace in the dog society. That is not possible. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So that consciousness can come only when one is spiritually educated. If he is simply engaged for satisfying the senses, material, then he remains a cat and dog. You cannot expect any peace.

Dr. Patel: I think the greatest damage done to this civilization of Aryans of India was by MacCauley, who introduced the British system of education.

Prabhupāda: But why you accepted that? (laughter) Why you accepted? Then why don't you accept? You should have refused.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sarvaṁ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 13.28), that I have explained so many times. If you see materially either dog or a big brāhmaṇa, the body is the same material. Body, when you dissect the body you find the same blood, same muscle, same bone. That's all. That is material. And spiritually they are atmān. Therefore sama-darśinaḥ. From that point of view, from basic point of view. Not that he is seeing a brāhmaṇa and dog equal. No. Not that. He is seeing the outward and inward. Inward is spirit. That is one. And outward, matter, that is one.

Dr. Patel: Another is śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the same thing, because he does not see the form; he sees the ingredients. Just like there are so many earthen pots, dolls. So any sane man knows that these are all made of earth. That's all. That vision is wanted, but these rascals, they are thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am fat," "I am this," "I am that." Therefore they are imperfect.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm, what is that?

Dr. Patel: Yogo bhavateo. Yoga can be caught and can be lost. Yoga can be caught and can be lost. So that type of yoga. Not this bhakti-yoga.

Prabhupāda: No, this is lost, when you are in materially, that is lost. And when you are spiritually joined, that is gained. Yoga and viyoga. Tasmād yogī bhavārjuna, Kṛṣṇa says Arjuna to become yogi, bhakti-yogi.

Dr. Patel: Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ yogatena āntarātmanā (BG 6.47), and then, er,...

Prabhupāda: In another place...

Dr. Patel: Yo māṁ bhajate ananya bhāk.... sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. Yogo māṁ bhajate ananya bhāk.

Prabhupāda: Sa sannyāsī sa yogī ca.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) This is nonsense.

Bhavānanda: "...our Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was born at Śrī Māyāpur, destined to remove the dark clouds which had overshadowed true religious thinking by traveling alone on foot throughout the length and breadth of India. Preaching His gospel of love, He brought about a religious upheaval which put an end to all religious conflicts and suicidal vissiferous(?) tendencies. The benign influence of His love philosophy made the whole of India a spiritually united cultural domain. Soul-enrapturing kīrtana music was organized from one end of the country to another. A neo-humanism based on love regarded as the highest objective of human existence held sway. The difference between man and man was forgotten, and the fundamental unity of human nature and human destiny was stressed upon. But in the early nineteenth century, true religion was at a very low ebb due to lack of proper publicity of literature and also for want of great ācāryas to propagate the cults in their true aspect. It was a dark period for the Caitanya or Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism when it fell from its highest transcendentalism to the lowest possible degradation because of so many abuses and evil practices which crept into it through plenty of pseudo-followers. Vaiṣṇavism was almost abandoned by the educated section of people. Its literature was hardly read. Kīrtana was looked upon not as a form of prayer but as a means of gratification by people of loose morals. Most of the Vaiṣṇava followers of the period lost their high standard of morality, their loving aestheticism, their intellectual superiority and devotional fervor, which were the main characteristics of the previous masters. The influx of Western ideas came in, and English educated people fell into the hands of Christians. Fortunately, at that time, we got a great Vaiṣṇava savant and scholar, Ṭhākura Kedāranātha Bhaktivinoda, who wrote widely and successfully created an interest among the educated public in Vaiṣṇava religion and literature. His discovery of Śrīdhāma Māyāpur, the birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, which was so long hidden from the public eye, gave a new impetus to its propagation. The age of Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism set in. Thereafter, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Ṭhākura took hold of Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism with a vow to propagate it in its true perspective, even as it was practiced with unparalleled and unprecedented transcendentalism by Śrī Rūpa and Śrī Sanātana Gosvāmīs, followers of Śrī Caitanya. In proper time, he got a great personality who readily shouldered the..."

Prabhupāda: Just see now. "He got a great personality." He is that personality. He'll also prove that.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No meat-eaters.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: None whatsoever.

Prabhupāda: All paramahaṁsas. In the Satya-yuga they are all paramahaṁsa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every single person.

Prabhupāda: Every person was perfectly, spiritually...

Harikeśa: On the earth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then in Tretā-yuga one-fourth diminished. And then Dvāpara-yuga, half diminished. And in Kali-yuga, three-fourth diminished. Seventy-five per cent are all rogues, and twenty-five per cent... That is expected, but that is now diminishing. They are all rogues with the advancement of Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Therefore there is no other method to save them. Harer nāmaiva kevalam. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. Incorrigible. Everyone will be incorrigible. Only hope is Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then... That is the distinction between you and the stone. Otherwise you would have remained as stone. Because you are moving, therefore He has given you the independence.

Guru-kṛpā: There is also a question in that same line. They say that in the spiritual world we say that everything is peaceful, there is no birth and death, there is no material conditions, so if the conditions in the spiritual world are so nice and everything is spiritually, everything is spiritual, how is it that one can become envious of Kṛṣṇa in such conditions? This is a very...

Acyutānanda: The original sin.

Sudāmā: Why we are envious,

Guru-kṛpā: How is it that, if everything is free from envy, free from bad material elements...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guru-kṛpā: How is it that...

Prabhupāda: That is independence. That is independence. In spite of all these things, because you have got little independence, you can violate.

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, whatever is done is done. Now let us make some adjustment (chuckles) and work combinedly. That is my proposal.

Siddha-svarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the problem is that to work combinedly, they think that that means that I surrender to them and I do everything as they say; otherwise I am not surrendering. So as far as I am concerned, I cannot work with them. There is no possibility of that, and yet I don't want to make trouble with them, but I have to try to work as best as I can. But there is no way that I'm going to be able to be organized and controlled by them. People who've tried to control me before are now spiritually dead and gone, and I'm not going to put myself under the protection of any of these boys who consider themselves to be great sannyāsīs or whatever, and it's just not possible for me to do it. I've tried it before. So I have to try to work as best as I can, not get in their way, and follow your instructions as best as possible, getting people to chant, following the principles myself.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: May I ask a question? What is your feeling about the GBC?

Siddha-svarūpa: I don't know anything about it, and I don't really care about organizing it. I don't care about...

Prabhupāda: So why don't you become a GBC and...

Siddha-svarūpa: Because I can't work... There's no way.

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Madhudviṣa: In the Nectar of Instruction.

Prabhupāda: Niyamagrahaḥ is not good. Niyama means regulative principles. And niyama-āgrahaḥ is niyamāgrahaḥ. Āgrahaḥ means not to accept. And niyama-āgraha. Āgraha means only eager to follow the regulative principles, but no advancement spiritually. Both of them are called niyamāgrahaḥ. So the basic principle is that niyamāgrahaḥ is not recommended. The real business is that.... And if we advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, simple method, chanting twenty-four hours, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31), then things will be automatically adjusted. You cannot find in Kali-yuga everything is being done very correctly, to the point. That is very difficult. Just like our poet, Allen Ginsberg. He was always accusing me, "Swamijī, you are very conservative and strict." Actually, I told him that "I am never strict, neither I am conservative. If I become conservative, then I cannot live here for a moment. So I'm not at all conservative." (laughter) I was cooking, and I saw in the, what is called, refrigerator of Yeargen, Yeargon? What is his...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. (sic:) Jergen. That boy you were staying with.

Prabhupāda: Ah, ah! I saw he kept some pieces of meat for his cat. So still, I kept my things in that refrigerator. What can be done? I had no place at that time. Jaya. (break) ...will be little earlier?

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Where?

Dr. Patel: People. I also.

Prabhupāda: No, no. A devotee never thinks "I am body." "The body is mine, or body is given to me. So this body is given by Kṛṣṇa. Let this body be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service." Then it is all right. Both the prakṛtis, parā-prakṛti and aparā, is Kṛṣṇa's. So even if you say that spiritually you can serve, but this is also Kṛṣṇa's prakṛti. You cannot reject the body and simply take the soul. That is not possible. It is now combination. So the body, karmaṇā manasā vācā. So we are not rejecting this body. Why? This is also Kṛṣṇa's. How can I reject it? Kṛṣṇa's things must be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. This is real philosophy. You cannot say, "This is not Kṛṣṇa's." What is not Kṛṣṇa's? Everything is Kṛṣṇa's.

Indian: These Māyāvādīs reject it, that the body is not...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ, mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo. The Māyāvādī says the whole material world is false. We do not say that.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Reporter: They have.... Is it that they have confused materialism with happiness?

Prabhupāda: Not Material, I mean, I mean to say. Happiness is knowledge.

Reporter: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Happiness is knowledge. Man who is in ignorance, he is suffering, and that you say material and spiritually. A person who is not in developed consciousness, he is suffering. And they commit sinful acts also.

Reporter: I beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: They commit sinful acts also in ignorance. That is the difference between man and animal. Animal means not developed consciousness. They.... Some of them, they say the animal has no soul. That is foolishness. Animal has soul, but the consciousness is not developed. Just like a child. Father's consciousness and the child's consciousness different. Why it is different? The child's consciousness is not developed. Father's consciousness is developed. Because the child is talking some nonsense, you cannot say there is no soul. There is soul, but the consciousness is not developed.

Reporter: Do you see hope for mankind in the future?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Man can be happy immediately provided the consciousness is developed.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Read that.

Hṛdayānanda:

śrī-prahrāda uvāca
brahmādayaḥ sura-gaṇā munayo 'tha siddhāḥ
sattvaikatāna-gatayo vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ
nārādhituṁ puru-guṇair adhunāpi pipruḥ
kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra-jāteḥ

"Prahlāda Mahārāja prayed: How is it possible for me, who have been born in a family of asuras, to offer suitable prayers to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead? Even until now all the demigods, headed by Lord Brahmā, and all the saintly persons could not satisfy the Lord by streams of excellent words, although such persons are very qualified, being in the mode of goodness. Then what is to be said of me? I am not at all qualified."

Prabhupāda: Go on, second.

Hṛdayānanda: Purport?

Prabhupāda: No purport, translation.

Hṛdayānanda: Sanskrit also?

Prabhupāda: Or translation. No, Sanskrit also. The mantra, hearing, that is very valuable. These are all Vedic mantras. If you simply hear, it helps you spiritually.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. Any science, any knowledge who is trying to give enlightenment about God, there is the same line as we are doing.

Richard: Right, but those people who study say, okay, to use an example, the Pope. Now there is a man who has dedicated his whole life, publicly, personally, spiritually, however you define it, to Christianity, specifically to the Catholic Church. Now apparently, and for all intents and purposes, his life seems to work for him.

Prabhupāda: The thing is, the Catholic Church is the original Church, I think.

Richard: The original Christian Church, yes.

Prabhupāda: Then why there are so many varieties?

Richard: Well, because...

Prabhupāda: Now hundreds and thousands of churches are there.

Richard: Right. Other people find that...

Prabhupāda: That means they don't like Catholic Church. They don't like. So they are missing the point.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Alive, you are always alive.

Richard: Physically alive.

Prabhupāda: No, physically not. Spiritually, you are always alive. This point is to be understood. The death taking place only of the physical body. That you have to understand.

Richard: Right, but I have never been aware of any proof...

Prabhupāda: That is education. You are not aware because you are not educated.

Richard: Perhaps, but I have never read of anyone else actually proving that there is a spiritual afterlife.

Prabhupāda: Here is the proof, he is giving proof. Therefore I said it requires little brain. He's giving proof.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This is already explained, the brain is an instrument. The instrument is not working, but that is not death.

Richard: Right, her soul is still alive, is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Richard: Her soul is still alive, and she is still functioning spiritually, even though her brain is dead. Is that what...?

Prabhupāda: That is possible because soul is there.

Rāmeśvara: The soul is always alive, but the fact that she's being maintained means the soul's still in that body, has not left the body yet.

Richard: Okay, now what...

Rāmeśvara: The soul is always living.

Richard: Okay, now what is.... Is the soul in a...

Prabhupāda: That is another proof. That instead of, in spite of the brain is not working, the soul is there.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Kīrtanānanda: That is your mercy.

Prabhupāda: So this was my dream, that a place should be there where we can get all nice foods, best foods, of milk. Kṛṣṇa is fulfilling our desire. Everything's there. Simply these rascals they do not know how to live or to eat. Everything there. Intelligence is there, everything is there. Simply for want of training they have become rogues. Make them human beings, your countrymen. Everyone should follow the duty. Materially and spiritually. Anyway... Here is very nice. It is a winter season of Kali-yuga. These months, June, July, August, up to September?

Kīrtanānanda: No, actually up to November. The devotees like the winter, though.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Kīrtanānanda: It is even more conducive to think of Kṛṣṇa in the winter.

Prabhupāda: So the neighbors they like it? Neighborhood men?

Kīrtanānanda: Most of them like us. There are a few that don't like us. But they are not violent. They are a little nasty.

Prabhupāda: Nasty they have been trained up to be. (Sanskrit) Once trained up nastily, it is very difficult to...

Kīrtanānanda: The state police in this local area has become very favorable to us. During that quarantine the state police had to stay here. So they even began to come to ārati. They took our books; they were reading. There's been a lot of change in some of the government. Some of the government men are now much favorable, more understanding.

Prabhupāda: Whatever was there, it was due to misunderstanding.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: What is this article? Ah. "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness-The Spirit of '76." "Curing the Crimes of a Lifetime." Vibhavatī. "Curing the Crimes"—read it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (reads) "Adapted from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, translation and commentary by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda." In the middle there is a picture of Arjuna piercing the target, and Draupadī. "With the recent disgrace of an American president still fresh in our minds, it is interesting to read of a similar case in ancient times. Five thousand years ago a blind king named Dhṛtarāṣṭra dishonored his high post and caused the death of millions. This story is of special importance even today, because he found an antidote to the crimes of a lifetime and in his old age became self-realized. King Dhṛtarāṣṭra was the acting monarch of Hastināpura, the capital of the Vedic kingdom of Bhārata, which five thousand years ago, according to the Vedic literature, spread over most of the planet. Hastināpura was on the banks of the Yamunā River at the present-day site..., at the site of present day Delhi. As its name indicates-hasti means elephant—it was a city full of opulently decorated elephants. Noble men rode elaborate chariots past marble palaces inlaid with glittering jewels. The sweet smell of incense drifted out of lattice windows. Trees bearing fruits and flowers lined the wide streets, which were sprinkled with scented water. There was no hint of poverty or distress. Hastināpura was the crown jewel of the abundant Vedic civilization. From the beginning, Dhṛtarāṣṭra's position as king was never legal, for he was blind, and Vedic law ruled that a blind man cannot be king. Thus the throne went to his younger brother Pāṇḍu. But when Pāṇḍu died in his young manhood, Dhṛtarāṣṭra began ruling on behalf of Pāṇḍu's five sons, who were still children. In an age of great and honorable kings, Dhṛtarāṣṭra was an exception. Swayed by his eldest son Duryodhana's ruthless lust for power, Dhṛtarāṣṭra began to abuse the guardianship of the Pāṇḍavas by closing his already blind eyes to the planned and purposeful efforts of Duryodhana to destroy the boys. As the descendant of a great royal dynasty, Dhṛtarāṣṭra had the lineage and rearing of a proper monarch, but it seemed that he was as blind spiritually as he was physically. Although he admired and even loved the five fatherless princes, he began to contemplate taking away their kingdom, and even their lives."

Prabhupāda: At seven o'clock we shall go there?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Same thing in Africa.

Hari-śauri: I think you gave that example. If you give... If there's a dog and you put him on a king's throne, (Prabhupāda laughs) he'll still come and lick your feet.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he'll lick up shoes. Another example is given: (Bengali saying) aṅgārā śveta... (indistinct). If you take a piece of coal, you can wash it hundreds and thousands of times, it never becomes white. And these are material things, but spiritually you can reform. It doesn't matter. If one comes to the spiritual platform then everything possible. Otherwise not.

Hari-śauri: They're always looking for a platform of equality.

Prabhupāda: The black men.

Hari-śauri: No, just the people in general, for happiness. Because they understand that if there are so many different groups, then there will always be fighting and dissent. So they are always looking for some compromise how to get the groups to live together.

Prabhupāda: This is equal—Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise not.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Actually, destiny cannot be checked. That I have already given. Even Mahatma Gandhi could not. The destiny you cannot check.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But then the question may be raised if destiny cannot be checked, then why not, when a child is born, simply let him like an animal run around and whatever happens to him...

Prabhupāda: No. That is the advantage of... you can train him spiritually. That is possible. Therefore it is said, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). For that purpose you engage your energy. That is open. Ahaituky apratihatā. The devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, apratihatā, it cannot be checked. Material destiny can be checked, or it cannot be checked. Similarly, your advancement in spiritual life cannot be checked if you endeavor for it. But your advancement of so-called material happiness, that is already destined. You cannot check it. Try to understand this.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then in terms of advancing in spiritual life, actually we can't say that the sanātana-dharma is fatalistic. That there is actually endeavor towards progress.

Prabhupāda: Fatalistic... I have given this example also. Just like a man is condemned by the law court to be hanged. Nobody can check it. Nobody can check. Even the same judge who has given this verdict, he cannot check. But if he begs for the mercy of the king, he can check it. He can go all above the law. Therefore, karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said that destiny can be changed by Kṛṣṇa for His devotees. Otherwise it is not possible. If one is condemned to death, Kṛṣṇa can check it. Otherwise, it is falsehood when Kṛṣṇa.... Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66)," I shall give you protection from all reaction of sinful activities." Suppose you are to be killed by somebody on account of your sinful activity. Nobody can check it, ordinarily, but Kṛṣṇa can check it. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's telling false, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi, "I shall give you protection." So therefore our business should be only to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And if you artificially want to be more happy by economic development, that is not possible. That is not possible.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ritual is a practice based on tapasya. Unless one undergoes the ritualistic ceremony, he remains unclean. But in this age, because it is practically impossible to induce people to take all these ritualistic processes, therefore it is recommended that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra." That is special advantage of this age, that by constant chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra he automatically becomes purified. That is recommendation given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The beginning is cleansing the heart, because we are impure on account of dirty things within our heart accumulated life after life in the animalistic way of life. So everything, advancement of spiritual life, culture, tapasya means cleansing the heart. So this process, chanting the mahā-mantra, the first installment of benefit is cleansing the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. And when the heart is cleansed, then he becomes eligible for being free from the clutches of māyā or the materialistic way of life. When he understands that he is not this body, he's spirit soul, his business is different, and he understands that "I am engaged only in these bodily comforts of life, it is not at all essential because it will change. Today I am in American body, I have got so many duties as American. Tomorrow I may be American dog body. So immediately my duty changes. So that is not my real business. My real business is how to elevate myself as spirit soul to the spiritual world, back to home, back to Godhead." Then he changes his... Ceto... Bhava... Then this materialistic activity is stopped. He is no more interested, that "This is simply waste of time." That is knowledge, that "I am simply acting for the benefit and comfort of the body. This is simply waste of time. I must act spiritually." That is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the heart. He is wrongly working on the basis of bodily concept of life. That illusion is over simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Wholesale. You must avoid at least sinful activities.

yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
janānāṁ punya-karmaṇām
te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā
bhajante māṁ dṛdha-vratāḥ
(BG 7.28)

You cannot become a devotee unless you are completely sinless. So to become completely sinless you have to begin with these four prohibitory injunctions, or avoid sinful activities like illicit sex, meat-eating, smoking, intoxication and gambling. Then you'll be gradually completely sinless. One side, to practice things, and another side, to engage yourself in devotional service. To engage oneself devotional service under the order of spiritual master and the śāstra means to remain on the transcendental platform. Transcendental platform means there is no sinful activity. It is above. Sinful.... Pious and sinful activities are there so long you are on the material platform. Good and bad. Piety and sinful. But when you are on the transcendental platform, then you are automatically without sin.

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicārena
bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

Sin, life of vice and life of piety, they are within this material world. But when one is spiritually engaged, he is above the spiritual plane. Sa guṇan samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. So one side, voluntarily accepting these prohibitory process.... You can keep it open.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So when you engage yourself in soul's activities, then gradually your intelligence, mind, senses, become spiritualized, or original. Then material activities stop. At the present moment without (indistinct) spiritually (indistinct) we are acting on the platform of gross senses. But if we begin our activities from the opposite side, from soul side, then everything becomes spiritualized. But the question of giving up the senses, no, it has to be purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Senses (indistinct) it should be purified. At the present moment, on account of material conception of life everything is polluted with material ideas. So when it will be spiritualised, that is perfect. But instead of working uselessly, if we use our legs for going to the temple then it is spiritualized work. And instead of going to the cinema, if we go and see Deity then it is spiritual eyes. Instead of going to the restaurant, hotel, if we take prasādam, so then you spiritualize your tongue. Instead of talking nonsense, if you talk about Kṛṣṇa, then it is properly utilizing the tongue.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
(SB 1.2.13)

Everyone is engaged in his occupational duties. Everyone is engaged. Generally according to Vedic civilization, the society is divided into eight divisions. Varṇāśrama-dharma it is called-four varṇas and four āśramas. Materially, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And spiritually, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. These eight divisions. So according to these eight divisions, everyone has an occupational duty. So what is the duty and how the duty is perfected? That is hari-toṣaṇam, to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That people do not know. Especially at the present moment, they do not know who is Hari and they do not know how to please Him. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that they do not care to know who is God and how to satisfy Him. That is the defect. The life is meant for, human life, for satisfying God. That is going on under religious system, and the Vedic civilization is called varṇāśrama-dharma. Dharma is not a kind of faith, religion is not a kind of faith, but it is a duty, varṇāśrama-dharma. So that duty we are forgetting. And therefore we are coming to the level of animals. Because the cats and dogs, they have no duty-animal. But human being has an obligation, a duty to understand God and to satisfy Him. That is human life. Without this knowledge, without this performance of duty, human life is on the level of animals. There are many other verses in this connection. Where are others? They are not present here?

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The material civilization is the jāgrati for the materialistic person. But those who are spiritually enlightened, they think that these persons are sleeping. They got the opportunity of understanding God, and without understanding God, they are simply busy with the material body and its comfort and working hard day and night, and missing the point. And whereas the materialistic persons, they see these Kṛṣṇa conscious people, Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they are wasting their time by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and they are doing nothing. Just the opposite business. These people are seeing the materialistic persons, they are sleeping, not enlightened to the spiritual life; and these materialistic persons, they are seeing that these people, under some fictitious idea, they are spoiling their life without enjoying material facilities. Just the opposite.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Interviewer: Do you think mankind is making some improvement?

Prabhupāda: No. Materially they may be doing some improvement, but that is not spiritually important. Just like I give sometimes this example: just like a dog, animal, is jumping with four legs on the street, and we are going fast with four wheels, so that does not make any difference. The difference is the dog cannot understand about his spiritual identity. A man can understand if he's properly trained up. If the man is denied that facility, then he remains in the ignorance of an animal like cats and dogs.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: But intelligent man... If one understands that he is not this body—he is within the body... Just like you have got one shirt. You are not the shirt. Anyone can understand. You are within the shirt. Similarly, a person who understands that he is not the body—he is within the body... That anyone can understand because when the body is dead, what is the difference? Because the living force within the body is gone, therefore we call the body dead.

Interviewer: But there are some very intelligent men who are not spiritually enlightened, perhaps even men who understand that they are not, or the body is not all, the body is dead and there is something else. Why aren't these men spiritually aware?

Prabhupāda: If one does not understand this simple thing, that he is not body, then he is no better than animal. That is the first understanding of spiritual platform. If he thinks that he is body, then he is in the same category as the animals.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Could you go over each of the three functions you've been mentioning-eating, sleeping and sex—and tell me what specifically, what rules or hints that you would give people who are seeking spiritual enlightenment to aid in their lives in these ways.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is our books. It is our books. We have got enough matter to understand. It is not a thing that you'll understand in a minute.

Interviewer: I understand you sleep very little. You sleep three to four hours a night. Do you feel that this is what any person who is spiritually actualized will also realize?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we see from the behavior of the Gosvāmīs. They practically had no material necessities. This eating, sleeping, mating and defending, practically they had no such thing. They are simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa's business.

Interviewer: Engaged in Kṛṣṇa's...?

Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa's business or God's service.

Bali-mardana: He's setting the example of the previous spiritual masters.

Interviewer: Well, what I was interested in is why... Has he found that three to four hours is the necessary time period to sleep?

Bali-mardana: She's asking why is three to four hours the amount that you sleep. How have you reached that standard?

Prabhupāda: That is not artificially. The more you are engaged in spiritual activities, the more you become free from material activities. That is the test.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. Average intelligence will do.

Interviewer: Well, then conceivably it seems that almost the great majority of society would adhere to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Rāmeśvara: So then, since it doesn't matter whether less intelligent, small intelligent, if they go to Gurukula, they can become spiritually advanced.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because spiritually everyone is free from material bondage. So materially we find one is more intelligent, one is less intelligent, but spiritually everyone can be equally intelligent.

Rāmeśvara: So what about the common man? If he accepts the Gurukula system he can also be spiritually advanced?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, anyone, anyone.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Everyone will die. You prepare or not prepare, you'll die. It doesn't matter whether you are prepared or not. Death must be there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Sure as death."

Rāmeśvara: Our philosophy, as Prabhupāda said in the beginning, is that spiritually there is no end. There is no such thing as death for the soul, self-realized soul. There is simply death of the body.

Prabhupāda: These things are discussed. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Find out this verse. It is an educational movement, it is not a religious movement, sentiment. One requires to be educated; then he is completely on the spiritual platform.

Interviewer: Let me ask you one more question before he reads the passage.

Prabhupāda: No, first of all about death.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The translation is, "For the soul there is never birth nor death nor having once been does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of death for a spiritually realized person.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: But what if they asked you, "What is this all about?"

Prabhupāda: No, this is for spiritual realization. If you chant, then, gradually, you realize yourself that you are a spiritual being; you are not this body. Then his spiritual life begins. Actually human life is meant for spiritual realization, and if one does not spiritually realize his identity, then he remains an animal. That is the difference between animal and man. Man is supposed to be spiritually realized.

Interviewer: How is that spiritual dimension realized?

Prabhupāda: One has to realize that he's not this body, he's spirit soul, and the spirit soul is within the body, and after annihilation of this body, the spirit soul is transferred to another body. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of life. And we have to transmigrate to any one of these forms. So today I am in American body or Indian body, very comfortably situated, but at the time of death my particular mentality will transfer me to a particular type of body. Exactly like if a man infects some contagious disease he has to develop that disease. It is very subtle material laws. So similarly, we are composed of gross body and subtle body. The gross body is made of this earth, water, air, fire, ether, like this. And the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. And the spirit soul is within that outward gross and subtle bodies. When the gross body is annihilated, the subtle body, mind, carries the soul to a similar body as he was thinking at the time of death. It is, example is given... Just like the flavor of a rose garden is carried by the air or the bad odor of a filthy place is also carried by the air, similarly, mind, intelligence carries me to a particular type of body as I was absorbed in thought at the time of death.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Ultimate is that you are spirit soul, you are being materially engrossed, you are creating different situations and you are being transferred to different bodies. That is different situations.

Interviewer: But for what purpose and to what end? What's the final end?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so final, that unless you are spiritually realized, you do not know what is the final end. The final end is that we are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in contact with this material atmosphere. So our final aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Unless we know this and we practice how to return back again to Godhead, then we have to remain within this material world, transmigrating from one body to another. Therefore the human intelligence is meant for understanding the spiritual identity and the goal of life and act accordingly. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is an educational movement to enlighten the people from gross ignorance to the highest enlightenment of spiritual understanding.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: It's like welfare work.

Prabhupāda: That is the sign of love. That is in material field also. There are so many philosophers, scientists and artists, they have done out of love for their subject matter, not for payment. That is love.

Bali-mardana: But aren't they also purified spiritually by doing this?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This spiritual realization means the more you give service to God, you become spiritually profited, in any way.

Interviewer: What are some of the other, aside from...? I mean, I see people selling things. What other practices are involved?

Prabhupāda: Then you stay one day, whole day and night, and see practically, from morning four o'clock to night ten o'clock, how we are engaged in different practices.

Interviewer: You rise at four?

Hari-śauri: Three-thirty.

Rāmeśvara: In this temple three, three-thirty.

Interviewer: And chant.

Rāmeśvara: Chant, study.

Prabhupāda: You go any room of this house. You'll find simply Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Ford. So what improvement you have done by having this President or that President? What improvement you'll make unless some false promise? That's all. What is the improvement? You have changed so many hundreds and thousands of Presidents, but what is the improvement about spiritual knowledge?

Bali-mardana: Prabhupāda sees everything spiritually.

Interviewer: How's that?

Bali-mardana: He's seeing everything spiritually. What is the improvement spiritually out of all these Presidents? So therefore we do not care.

Interviewer: You do not care what the President...

Prabhupāda: We take care, but we take care more for the spirit soul than the body. That is our basic principle.

Interviewer: But do you think most of the Hare Kṛṣṇa members will vote in the election in November?

Prabhupāda: They're attending? (indistinct)

Bali-mardana: He's asking if you think that they will vote, our members will vote.

Interviewer: Will they participate in the election? Will they register and vote do you think?

Prabhupāda: Personally I never give votes.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: But in other words you think that there, is there not something to this idea of brain, of being spiritually controlled or spiritually directed?

Prabhupāda: It is not controlled, it is not controlled.

Interviewer: Well, what would you call it?

Prabhupāda: Controlling one from coming to the jail life. If you give good instruction to a man, that "Don't become criminal, don't come to the jail, don't be engaged in the hammering business," it appears negative, but that is positive life.

Bali-mardana: If you tell someone not to do something that's bad for him, it's positive for him.

Prabhupāda: That is his positive life. When the physician says to a patient that "Don't eat like this, then you will increase your diabetes. Don't eat this, don't eat starch, don't eat sugar." So people may think he's simply giving negative, but that is his positive life. They misunderstand.

Meeting with Italian Printer -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: So, explain what is the goal.

Translator: What is our definition of liberty, freedom, spiritual?

Prabhupāda: Liberty means whatever you like, you can do. That is liberty. But at the present moment, you cannot do that. Just like you want to go to the moon planet, you cannot do that. But when you are spiritually liberated, you can go anywhere you like. Still, in this material world there is a planet which is called Siddhaloka. The inhabitants of that planet, they go from any planet to any planet. But still, they can not go to the spiritual world. But Nārada Muni, he can travel anywhere. He travels over all the spiritual world and material world. There is no restriction.

Translator: He says this freedom to go anywhere and everywhere...

Prabhupāda: This is one of the items, there are so many others.

Translator: So he's pointing out that when one acts in complete freedom, he follows a path, a definite path to attain a certain truth.

Prabhupāda: You get a spiritual body, that means freedom, no condition.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Pradyumna: "One who knows the transcendental nature of my appearance and activities does not upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world but attains my eternal abode, O Arjuna."

Prabhupāda: So this is the process of becoming independent of the material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is the process. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how to make one independent of this material body. Any other questions? Bring my beads. (long pause) My question is whether you like to remain dependent on this material body. Hmm? If you can live spiritually independent, whether you should remain dependent on this material body and whether to remain dependent on this material body is happy or it is distress? What is your realization? To remain dependent on this material body, is it very good or is it troublesome, huh?

Peter: Suffering.

Prabhupāda: Suffering, very good. If you remain dependent on this material body, then suffering. So why don't you become independent? That is the next question.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Peter: Is there any point in your practice do you consider yourself free from taking lower re-births? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...but if there is no material activities, then you are not affected. This is possible. Just like an iron rod, you put into the fire. Gradually, it becomes warmer, warmer, and at last, when it is red hot, it is fire, no more iron. Similarly, even though we have got this material body, if we cultivate spiritual life, then the activities of the material body will stop automatically. Therefore it is no more material. The same example, the iron rod has become already fire. So you put it in the fire, and continue it, then you'll understand that it is no more iron rod, it is fire. Touch anywhere it will burn. You cannot say it is iron bar. Similarly, if you become spiritually enlightened, then the material activities will stop and then you'll be happy. (break) You'll feel, "Yes, I have got some food."

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Assurance is there. Kṛṣṇa says kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhakta... (BG 9.31). If you remain a pure devotee, you'll never fall down. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). These are assurances. If you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why does He come, what are His activities. Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). Simply.... This is cultivation, to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cultivation. And Kṛṣṇa assures: tyaktvā dehaṁ, you have to give up this body, but for a devotee giving up this body means no more accepting another body. And nondevotees giving up this body, tathā dehāntara prāptir, another body. That is the difference between devotee and nondevotee. One may say both of them are dying. Yes, they are dying, that's all right. They are not dying, nobody is dying, but changing the body. But a devotee's changing not to accept any more material body. The nondevotee's changing to accept another. That is the difference. And if you accept another body you will suffer, more or less, degrees. And if you don't accept material body then you become spiritually situated. Sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1), simply ānanda, eternally blissful. Very easy.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: These are the different stages.

Prabhupāda: Yes, of coming to the platform of spiritual senses. And when you come to the spiritual senses, then you can understand God, you can understand your relationship with God, you can talk with God, you can serve God, and so on, so on. The same example, just like iron rod as it is, it is not able to burn anything. But when the iron rod is sufficiently hot, red-hot, touch anywhere, it will burn. Similarly, from this physical platform, if you begin these spiritual activities, then stage will come when you'll act only spiritually, there will be no more material activity. That is the stage of bhakti, that is real platform of bhakti, when one is acting only spiritually, there is no material activity. That is the process. So if we adopt that process, it is possible to come to the platform of spiritual sense activity. That is possible. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is purification process. And when one is completely purified, then he acts with his spiritual senses.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: Is it necessary to get to know the true self before knowing God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, God means spirit, supreme spirit. If you cannot understand what is spirit, then how you'll understand God? You must know what is spirit, what is matter, and when we have little understanding of the spirit, then we can make progress spiritually.

Ali: How does one get to know the true spirit?

Prabhupāda: By knowledge, by knowledge. Just like you are talking. How you are talking? Because the spirit soul is there within you. As soon as it is gone, you cannot talk. Your this body and everything will remain, but you cannot talk, you cannot understand, everything is finished. So this is matter. Body is matter, and the force which is helping you to talk, that is spirit. Now you have to understand it thoroughly.

Ali: Yes, I'm aware of that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: But, uh, the relativity...

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that requires the training and guidance of spiritual master. Therefore called spiritual master. You have to... Just like if you want to be an engineer, you must be trained under some engineer. Similarly, if you want to be trained up spiritually, then you must accept a spiritual master. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) must, otherwise not possible. Training. So spiritual master trains with these books, and explanation, practical demonstration. In this way the student makes progress spiritually.

Ali: I am a Muslim and I practice dervishism.

Prabhupāda: That, that... This is also a misunderstanding. You are thinking you are a Muslim. Why?

Ali: It's just by normal definition.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because you are born of a Muslim father or a Muslim country.

Ali: No, no, in fact I didn't believe in religion at all.

Prabhupāda: Then you believe, that is also belief. You are believing something is this body, and when this body is left over, then you will believe something else.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: Is there a time limit for this spiritual growth?

Prabhupāda: No, in a moment you can be spiritually enlightened. So why don't you agree?

Ali: Why I mean is from the time that you start, has it got deadline or something.

Prabhupāda: Well, starting, just like when there is a seed sown, the starting is there. Now it grows a tree and there is fruit, there is flowers. The fruit is green now. When it is yellow mango and ripe, you can take. The beginning is when you sow the seed. Just like child. The father puts the seed within the womb of the mother. The body begins from that moment, grows and grows. When it is fully grown up it comes out and acts and then walks. So beginning is there. You can begin at any moment. But it is spiritual, it does not take so much time. You should remember spiritual. Just like speed, there are different kinds of speed. Mental speed and physical speed. Physical speed, you have got a very good nice airplane. Still, you have to take ten hours to reach London. And mental speed, you can immediately, within a second, go to London. And spiritual speed, still more. Kṛṣṇa says tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma mām eti (BG 4.9), as soon as you give up the body you immediately go to Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual speed. Immediately. Not that so many miles, oh, Kṛṣṇaloka is far, far above this material sky, then spiritual sky. No. The spiritual speed is so high that tyaktvā dehaṁ, as soon as you give up this body, immediately. You can compare material speed and mental speed. Although you haven't got spiritual idea, still, we can at least imagine what is that spiritual speed. The mental speed is so rapid that by the speedy airplane I'll have to take four hours, you can reach there in four seconds by mental speed. That is with our experience. Then we can imagine how speedy is spiritual. It is actually known by education. It is a science. It is not sentiment. And everything is there.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: Anyway, that's a very frivolous statement. That was a frivolous statement.

Prabhupāda: No, that, ruling over India, they politically ruled.

Jayapatākā: But we're not politicians.

Prabhupāda: Even if we are rule, we shall rule spiritually. We have nothing to do with politics.

Jayapatākā: That's the point. That's why even the Chief Secretary, he became...

Gargamuni: They didn't take it seriously. The Chief Secretary and Mr. Choudhuri did not take that very seriously, that comment. It's a frivolous comment.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Ten days? Ten days.

Jayapatākā: No, it was a three-day program. He invited us for one day. But I was afraid to go. He might even poison me. They personally went...

Prabhupāda: That is their business, especially Mādhava Mahārāja.

Jayapatākā: It not materially by poison, then spiritually by ear. One way or other, they have to give poison. So I didn't even want to go. I didn't go, either.

Prabhupāda: Śrīdhara Mahārāja is also within the group?

Jayapatākā: Of course, all those details we don't know. By the way, Tīrtha Mahārāja very sick.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gargamuni: Oxygen.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...required to kill somebody, he'll do that. If it is required for his sense gratification. There are many instances that a woman is addicted to another man and she has killed her husband, killed her son. Why? Sense gratification. I have seen one woman, my Godbrother's wife, she killed her son for being implicated with another man. I have seen it. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Things which are not to be done, they do it. Why? For the matter of sense gratification. They do it. That's a fact. So therefore simply for sense gratification they are prepared to do anything. That means pāpa. It is the verdict of the court that when a man kills another man he becomes mad. Without becoming mad a man cannot kill another man. So everything is being done which is not sanctioned because for sense gratification. The whole world is (indistinct) is sense gratification. And at the end, when he's little spiritually inclined, he wants to satisfy senses by thinking artificially that "I shall become God." That is the greatest sense gratification. "Because remaining a small living entity I have been hampered in my sense gratification. Now let me become God so that there will be no restriction of my sense gratification." Bhagavān (indistinct). Because he has failed to satisfy his senses remaining non-Bhagavān, now he wants to become Bhagavān. Yogi, that is also another sense gratification. That if I show some magic, if I can create little gold like this, hundreds and thousands of men will be after me and I shall live, very nicely. Gratify my senses. These things are going on practically. The man who is manufacturing gold, and so many rich people are coming to his disciples and he's begging for a motor car. If he can create gold, why he cannot create a motor car? This is going on.

Morning Walk -- September 2, 1976, New Delhi:

Caraṇāravindam: ...Kṛṣṇa. So how are we to understand the name of the spiritual master. In kīrtana when we chant the name of the spiritual master, is that as spiritually potent?

Lokanātha: You have to understand the position of Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava's position is far far greater than the demigods. Demigods, they shower flowers on the Vaiṣṇavas. So they are very exalted personalities, especially the spiritual master. There's no comparison of the spiritual master with any entities in the universe or brahmāṇḍa. As Prabhupāda's purport has said many places: "The spiritual master is the external manifestation of the Supersoul, Paramātmā within your heart." Paramātmā is Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, and He becomes manifest before you in form of a guru or spiritual master. So you cannot compare a spiritual master or guru with any other...

Prabhupāda: No, his question is why the demigods... Just like Lord Brahmā, he is the original spiritual master. So why the demigods should not be equal to the spiritual master. That is his question. Is it not?

Caraṇāravindam: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hound. Yes. So I attacked the whole United Nations, and so they attacked me also.

Dr. Patel: No, we have seen the League of Nations was even better than the United Nations. They are all really fighting among themselves very badly.

Prabhupāda: Now how they cannot fight? They are swines and dogs. How they will remain peaceful? It is not possible. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Unless they are spiritually elevated they cannot be peaceful. It is impossible. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Simply by stamping.

Dr. Patel: And there is another class of...

Prabhupāda: Gandhi became mahātmā, but his mission was, "Get out, Englishmen, get out." Where is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu? He declared himself mahātmā, but his business was how to drive away the Englishmen.

Dr. Patel: Sir, he, I mean, I'm sorry to interrupt you. He never hated Englishmen. It's their method he wanted to drive out.

Prabhupāda: I do not hate you, but I beat you with shoes. (laughter)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: But still, after ten years the Gauḍīya Math still has not learned.

Prabhupāda: Hm? They cannot. They... Those who are intelligent, they are making something, Śrīdhara Mahārāja and others. But this man was envious, this Tīrtha Mahārāja, because... He advertised that he is the only favorite student of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. (laughs) But spiritually he was empty. Materially he was capable, how to manage things. But spiritually he was zero. That Prabhupāda also knew and everyone knows. He had no spiritual understanding. Materially he helped Guru Mahārāja how to organize. Therefore he liked him, that "This man is expert manager."

Rāmeśvara: We have devotees like that. We also have devotees who spiritually have trouble coming to the programs and even chanting, but still, they like to give them service, so we engage them anyway.

Prabhupāda: That is also qualification. That is also qualification. Some way or other, if there is some service, it goes to the credit. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya. The foolish person may not know that "I am imperceptibly advancing even during my, this material life," but Kṛṣṇa takes. Just like Pūtanā. She gave service by allowing her breast to be sucked by Kṛṣṇa. Although her intention was to kill, but Kṛṣṇa took her as mother: "She has given Me service." This is Kṛṣṇa. "This rascal does not know that nobody can kill Me, but on some plea or other, she has given her breast open to be sucked by Me, and I have done it. Therefore she is My mother. She must get the promotion like Mother Yaśodā." This is Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (2): Nine-fifty.

Prabhupāda: No, not fifty. Per week, yes.

Mr. Pandiya: In Western countries they give wages in terms of weeks.

Prabhupāda: Yes, weekly.

Guest (1): So spiritually they are innocent, comparing with India. We have become complicated after passing through many cultural ups and downs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Due to these blind leaders. You see Bhagavad-gītā.

Guest (2): But, sir, Gandhi told that "You read Gītā."

Prabhupāda: He did not know himself. (laughs) That is the pity. He has spoken in this Gītā lecture that "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different from Bhagavad-gītā." A Kṛṣṇa is a subject matter of imagination. Have you read his lecture on Gītā?

Guest (1): Gītā-pravacana.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Gītā-pra..., is Vinobha.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: That is their aim: no God.

Satsvarūpa: Now these psychiatrists are doing that with our Hare Kṛṣṇa. They say, "When these people... They take to Hare Kṛṣṇa because of this, because of that, and when they chant this happens in their brain, and this is happening." They don't believe that it is anything transcendental.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They say that "There is a brain. There is a tissue. There is cerebrum. On account of, they are thinking spiritually. Otherwise if it is cut off, there will be no more opportunity." They'll do that, brain operation. And whatever nonsense they will do, we'll accept.

Gurukṛpā: They have electric.

Satsvarūpa: Electric shock.

Prabhupāda: Dangerous community. These scientists, the so-called, they are dangerous community. Now, if five ounce(?) sight(?) is there, "No, it should be operated. Then he will be cured." And actually it is happening. In the hospitals they make all kinds of experiment, and if you say, "No, why you are doing that? A patient is suffering," "We must execute our science. So long the life is there we shall try to save him." They say like that. They will go on with all nonsense activity, and if you want to stop them, they will say, "No, our science has got so..." They take in writing that "Whatever we shall do, you cannot object," hospital. It is a place of demons. And as soon as they get a patient who will not protest, they'll make it, they'll make it and operation. No medicine, simply operate.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: No. On the opposite way, they try to learn more about the books because they feel they have to be spiritual teacher of the future. That is the opposite way.

Prabhupāda: That's all right...

Pṛthu-putra: They don't go away from Śrīla Prabhupāda's teaching. On the opposite, we try to learn more and to be more qualified in order to teach spiritually on the case...

Prabhupāda: But no, no..., that, that... They're overintelligent. Just like Nitāi has become overintelligent. "Please bless me I may find out a bona fide guru." He has written me.

Pṛthu-putra: (laughs) That's craziness.

Prabhupāda: He has written me that. He is asking my blessing to find out another bona fide guru. Such a rascal he is. If his present guru is not bona fide, why he's asking blessing from him? Such a rascal. He has written me.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People have become poor, poor materially and spiritually. Actually it's clear that the devotees are becoming wealthy materially and spiritually, and that is one of the reasons that these demons are so angry—because they see our opulence.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are surprised (laughs) that "These people do not do anything, and they're living so opulent?" They inquired in Los Angeles. You know that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Brahmānanda you know that?

Brahmānanda: Yes the neighbors.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They were envious that "How do you live so opulently? You do not do anything? You have got so many cars. You eat so nicely. You live in such a nice house. And no anxiety." (laughs)

Brahmānanda: That's why they think we are CIA, because they think we're getting money from somewhere, from government.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our Tīrtha Mahārāja accusing me that I have got two crores of rupees from American government to start this movement. (laughs) Even my Godbrother says, what to speak of others. Nobody is living such nice house, all of my Godbrothers. (laughs)

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: He has no experience of this...

Brahmānanda: We have always understood that the editor should be a senior man...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: ...who is spiritually strong. Śrī Govinda is not spiritually strong, and he is not a senior man.

Prabhupāda: So best thing will be Satsvarūpa now shall edit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's some serious discrepancies. One thing is that after your name at the beginning they have written founder-director instead of founder-ācārya.

Prabhupāda: They are making mine?(?)

Satsvarūpa: Because the American public would not be able to accept that. Then later in the issue...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder and director of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement."

Prabhupāda: Of course, ācārya means director. That is another... But why they search out?(?)

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Monkeys are very friendly.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. They're much more friendly than monkeys in Vṛndāvana. (laughing) I have seen that many, very healthy. There's some sort of welcome people coming. There are many. That place is some sort of a central place of Imphala. It's a very..., spiritually, a very conducive area. Many kinds of birds, and it's very natural surroundings. So I went with two of our life members, and they are thinking that maybe we can approach the government so that we can get the land from Manipur government, and then we can construct a temple.

Prabhupāda: That's good idea. Yes. So now organize things. My presence or no presence, we have got now a position. We have to push on this movement very cautiously.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu was mentioning that he met Upendra.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Where?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the airport, Calcutta airport. He arrived last night, but somehow his luggage was left in Bombay airport. So the luggage is coming tonight at seven o'clock for Bombay-Calcutta flight, and he told me that he's coming after, a taxi. So he'll be arriving about nine o'clock tonight.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He has received that telegram.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Hawaii.

Conversation with Italian Woman with Translator -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What help she can do?

Translator: She says she would like to help spiritually other people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So first of all you realize yourself.

Translator: She says sometimes she calls you, and she can feel your presence, and she wants to know if you can feel her presence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I'm ready to help, but spiritually.

Translator: So she said that probably would be the first and last time she will see you, so she wants to know if she can continue to contact you.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Jaya. Let her read our Italian Bhagavad-gītā, and wherever there is difficulty, she can ask me. Yes. You show her our Italian... She has seen? Italian? That will help her.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yogeśvara and his wife, they were doing very nice. Why they should leave?

Rāmeśvara: Bhagavān told me that Yogeśvara wanted to change his service because of family problems.

Gargamuni: He told me that also in Bhuvaneśvara, that the reason why he was leaving is because he wanted to work with his mother, who has some type of public relations job in the United States.

Brahmānanda: Bhagavān claims that all these men who signed this letter, they were spiritually weak.

Prabhupāda: So what you have decided? Yogeśvara was doing nice in translation, his wife was doing nice. So why should we lose these important hands?

Rāmeśvara: He hasn't been working at the French BBT for many months. He gave that up some time ago and was working with his wife at the gurukula.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He told me that he was frustrated. That's why he gave it up. When he was in New York he told me that had become discouraged.

Prabhupāda: So if Bhagavān and he does not agree, then he should be given better place that both husband and wife, they can go on with the translation work. It is not that he has to remain under the control of Bhagavān. That is not necessary. Let him translate independently, and wherever he likes, he can remain. What do you think?

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: English.

Dr. Sharma: I was going to bring to your kind notice, ever since we become independent, our moral fiber is really breaking down. We are spiritually, I think, the..., the deterioration has been very fast after 1947. Somehow this is...

Prabhupāda: This is our so-called leaders misled them. Even Gandhi misled. That Vinobha Bhave is misleading, what to speak of others.

Dr. Sharma: Many of the even small temples in villages, their revenue have been taken away after independence. There are many small temples in where I come from, our village in Rajasthan. And when I was a small boy I used to go to the temple because, you know, my grandfather and my father used to go. And there was a very rich life in the villages because, you know, early morning, we would take a shower, bath, and go to the temples and do our pūjā, and the temple also we'd get some prasādam, and there was some land grants attached to a temple, some cows...

Prabhupāda: Some contribution.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's how you trained us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Mr. Koshi: Did you get?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, by Prabhupāda. Even though we were not five years old, he treats us just like as if we were five. Because spiritually we are still like that. So he is very strict with us.

Prabhupāda: All these boys I chastise vehemently. Even a little mistake.

Mr. Koshi: You...?

Prabhupāda: They tolerate. They know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are afraid.

Mr. Koshi: What is your message to the world?

Prabhupāda: Again you ask me. (laughter) (Hindi)

Mr. Koshi: Yes, I know. but...

Prabhupāda: After reading Rāmāyaṇa you are asking whose father is Sītā. (laughter) I have explained already.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He said very sensible thing, no.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, I think he can be coordinated(?). He said when he was very young...

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is, what is his conception about God?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He had a Kṛṣṇa...

Girirāja: Well, spiritually, he's on the verge of becoming a devotee. He is...

Prabhupāda: He has got attachment for Kṛṣṇa.

Girirāja: He has attachment. And he realizes that if he develops his attachment for Kṛṣṇa, that will solve all of his problems.

Prabhupāda: If you simply follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, the whole world will be perfect. That's all. But these rascals, they take Kṛṣṇa as fictitious. Such a rascal, educated man, that for "fictitious Kṛṣṇa," Vyāsadeva has taken so much trouble. Such a great writer and Vedavyāsa, and later on, all the ācāryas, big, big ācāryas, they have wasted time for something fictitious. Such a rascal. I say, "rascal..." (end)

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Patita-pāvana: Okay. There's two especially, Dr. Arkasomayaji and Agnihotram Rāmānuja Tattvācārya. Spiritually, from what you've taught me, I can understand they have some limitations. Their spiritual understanding is not as high as the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of spiritual understanding.

Patita-pāvana: Yes, but...

Prabhupāda: It requires real scholar.

Patita-pāvana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If they understand.

Patita-pāvana: Yes. Both have received President's Award.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One who can understand that description in the Fifth Canto rightly, it is... There is no question of whether he's spiritually advanced or not. It is simply academic qualification.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bring some fruits.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "I remembered Śrīla Prabhupāda's introduction to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and I began to speak further. 'Although mankind has made great material advancement in so many spheres, we can factually say that there is a fault in the social body at large. People are not happy with their day-to-day activities, and there is an increasing disturbance of drug addiction, prostitution, violence and crime. The root of the problem is lack of God consciousness. People are unaware of the actual purpose of life.' The judge, intrigued by this sound philosophy coming from the witness box, relaxed his judicial appearance, sat back, and took a sip of water from his glass. Encouraged, I asked, 'Your honor, with your permission I would like to read a short passage which appeared in the London Observer in October, 1972. It is an excerpt from an article written by the eminent English historian Sir Arnold Toynbee. "The cause of it, the world's malady, is spiritual. We are suffering from having sold our souls to the pursuit of an objective which is both spiritually wrong and practically unattainable. We have to reconsider our objective and change it, and until we do this, we shall not have peace either amongst ourselves or within each of us." ' Then the devotee continued. " 'As devotees of the Lord, we strictly follow four principles, cultivating the qualities of human life: mercifulness, truthfulness, cleanliness and austerity. The absence of these qualities means the degradation of society. So the spreading of spiritual understanding amongst humanity at large is the highest welfare work, and an essential part of this program is the distribution and the congregational chanting in the street of the holy names of God.' 'Is that all?' inquired the judge. 'Yes, sir,' was the reply. 'Then you may step down,' he instructed. Adjusting his spectacles and regarding the devotees, who were once more assembled in the dock, he said in a very firm yet amicable manner, 'In legal terms you are guilty of obstruction, although it is of a very minor degree. Taking this into consideration and because of your obvious sincerity, I have decided to dismiss the case.' We smiled jubilantly and, thanking the magistrate, were about to step down when Kṛṣṇa prompted me to say, 'Sir, we were wondering if you had a court library here, in which case we would like to present a book for addition to the collection.' 'Thank you,' replied the judge. 'I am quite sure we can accommodate it.' Giving a copy of Śrīla Prabhupāda's Śrī Īśopaniṣad to one of the clerks, who promised to pass it on to the judge, we left the courtroom, thanking Lord Nityānanda for His mercy." Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda

Guest (1): (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: And that judgment is still wrong.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There are many devotees, Vaiṣṇava. Hui(?) dāsa, a great Vaiṣṇava.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Prabhupāda: A famous Vaiṣṇava, Hui(?) dāsa, he's coming from the bhangis. Everyone is given chance. Socially there may be distinction. Spiritually everyone is given equal chance. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yonayaḥ means these bhangi, cāmāras. And they are not upstart: "Now I have become Vaiṣṇava. Therefore I shall become equal with the brāhmaṇa." No. He is satisfied with his own... They are cooking. Oh, you'll like to cook, er, eat. I have seen it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They cook nicely.

Prabhupāda: Everything equal. Taking bath, cleansing and worshiping, chanting...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't eat meat?

Prabhupāda: Most of them, they eat, but there are... They do not eat... Not meat. Fish. Meat-eating was introduced by the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: British.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Complete.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very much increased...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...the notice of Caitanya-caritāmṛta. " 'His treatment of the verses through his transparent translations and purports show that his scholastic and spiritually realized grasp of the text is incomparable. It is his understanding of the goal of all knowledge, as shown by his skillful pen, that makes him rightfully the founder and ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. I am very very happy to see that many different types of libraries and institutions of the world are snapping up his encyclopedia.' "

Prabhupāda: So the Communist country they will be following.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'Any educational center interested in giving a complete education to its pupils should follow the example set by the University of California, the British Library, the Oxford University, and the University of Bombay, among many others, who have ordered sets of the BBT's encyclopedia. As an Indian, I am proud of the vast accomplishments of my fellow countryman, Swami Prabhupāda.' "

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then... "I hope this letter finds Your Divine Grace in good health."

Prabhupāda: It doesn't depend on my good or bad health. It is all spiritual news. Spiritually I become very much enlivened.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I tell him that you're thinking about going to the West?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When that news goes out... Whew!

Prabhupāda: All right, don't say now. It will be known automatically.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's his letter. The...

Prabhupāda: Three hundred people coming, newly opened. It is not joke. And he's feeding sumptuously.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We met. Svarūpa Dāmodara and I spent an hour at Bhagatji's house. Bhagatji brought him. So he's going to do that Trust. He says in three or four days time he can finish it, Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, with the aims and objects we have given. Then I talked about that squandering amendment. So he explained that the best way to do it is that we amend it to say that they always get 250 rupees for their maintenance, and the other 750 rupees, instead of fixing it in their names, fix it in the name of ISKCON, and ISKCON executors of the will shall see that they give them the money at the time of seven years for the purposes of three: purchasing property, business, and for buying government stocks. And the profits from those, they can do anything they want with. He said don't let them put the 750 rupees in their name, because then they can do anything they want with it, squander it. But if you put the money in fixed deposit in ISKCON's name, then ISKCON can give them the money after seven years, for those three purposes. So if you approve, then he can make an amendment clause, and then you can sign it, and then it can be done. He understood everything very perfectly. He said actually... He understood it perfectly. Actually, because everything belongs to ISKCON, the whole will is more or less a moral, spiritual guidance, because legally everything is already ISKCON's. So I said, "But we want it to be morally and guided spiritually. To us, this is the will. Whatever this will says, we must follow as Prabhupāda's disciples." He said, "Then I can make an amendment, which would be like that, that every month they'll get 250 rupees for their whole lifetime, and the 750 rupees will be put in fixed deposit for seven years in the name of ISKCON, and at the end of that, the ISKCON executors of the will, will give them each the money each month, fifteen hundred rupees, for the purpose of..., in those three ways, and that the money should not be squandered." He said that way, if ISKCON sees that the money is being squandered, then they stop giving them that money and they'll just give 250 rupees. Two hundred fifty rupees they must get. And Radharani De, she may get always one thousand rupees. She is older. Let her have that. Whatever she does is her business with the money. And, I think, it is a very good way. And we'll all make sure that they get the money, but they must use it properly. It's Kṛṣṇa's money.

Prabhupāda: And they'll remain in that house lifetime.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break)

Bhavānanda: ...over there. We drink fresh gaṅgā-jala every day. Sweetest. When I was on the boat preaching, I never drank anything but gaṅgā-jala. I took my bath in the Gaṅgā three times a day. So spiritually enlivening.

Prabhupāda: Three times you were taking?

Bhavānanda: My bath.

Prabhupāda: Oh. When is your date for appearing in the court?

Bhavānanda: Twenty-ninth of December, which is the appearance day of your Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. We have to appear that day.

Prabhupāda: Twenty-ninth December.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hired or purchased?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, for now just hired, not purchased. Later on we can make a more permanent arrangement, and it can be fixed up as nicely as possible. At the same time while we were meeting, the kavirāja, he also was present. So we inquired from him what he thought about this program, from a medical point of view of course. Spiritually he is in complete agreement. So from a medical point of view, he said that you would not at all be able to withstand this kind of a trip. He said that in a bullock cart, moving around, bumping on the road, you might not be able to live more than a couple of hours. He's here now. He wanted to speak to you.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Lokanātha?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Lokanātha has already gone, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Haṁsadūta: He has gone to Mathurā for renting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has gone out for renting the bullock cart.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're just trying to get him here. He went out again to get some more medicine for you. He says now that he's seen that you took this half kilo of milk he's going to start to give a medicine that will make this milk make muscles on your body, because all the muscles have become finished, slackened. So he wants to do that so that you'll then have strength. Parikramming the temple is not so bad. Let's just see what he says. It's certainly not that difficult. The main thing is, you have to be able to sit up for some time. (aside:) Prabhupāda wants to become enlivened spiritually, you know, by some spiritual activity. (to Prabhupāda:) We'll ask the kavirāja if he thinks we can take you tomorrow for a short parikrama around the temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Indian devotee: He just got on the phone. I just talked with him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's coming back? I couldn't believe that... I felt so bad, seeing him tonight. He was sitting, Śrīla Prabhupāda, on the fountain steps, completely dejected. Couldn't understand why. He just was so, so disappointed and unhappy.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the way you deal with us simply deepens our attachment every moment.

Prabhupāda: It is my duty. (laughter) There was a professor in Scottish Churches' College. So when you would say something, he would reply, "That's my duty," "juti," j-u-t-i. (chuckles) So there was a student. He said... So he said, "Is that Scottish pronunciation?"

Page Title:Spiritually (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:24 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=149, Let=0
No. of Quotes:149