So jñāna, or knowledge, is on the mental plane and karma is on the bodily plane. So somebody, some section of people, they are engaged in this bodily platform, and some section of people are engaged in the mental platform. Whatever religion and process of elevation of life we have manufactured, they can be grouped in two ways: mental and bodily. That's all. And Bhagavad-gītā is transcendental. Neither on the mental plane nor on the bodily plane. Therefore the last instruction of Bhagavad-gītā is sarva-dharmān parityajya. Dharma, you have created so many religious principles, so many concocted spiritual ways of life or material ways of life. Somebody are materialists and somebody are so-called spiritualists. So Kṛṣṇa says that you have to give up all this nonsense—on the mental platform and bodily platform. You have come to the transcendental platform. And what is that transcendental platform? To understand your relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Spiritualist (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
So dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). All of us, the living entity, soul, is within this body. Not this body I am. So one who has realized this thing, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, and living by nature's arrangement, I have been allowed to live in such and such body," then he is learned. That is the beginning. So Kṛṣṇa, from the previous verse, that is actual spiritual education. In the world, these rascals are going on, spiritualists. They do not know the very first thing of spiritual knowledge, that "I am not this body." They are doing so many sinful acts on account of this body; still, they are going as religious, or spiritualist. Nobody is spiritualist unless one understands his spiritual identification, neither one is religious. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā the last word is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), because you rascal, fools, you have created so many religious system simply on the differences of body. That is not religion. Real religion is that "I am the Supreme Soul, Parambrahma, Kṛṣṇa. And you are My part and parcel. So we have intimate relation, like father and son. So it is the son's duty to obey the father.
People do not know that there can, we can become immortal. Immortal we are, but we have been embodied in this material body. Therefore we have to accept mortality, birth and death. These things stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, this is the beginning of spiritual life. Spiritual life means how to become immortal. They come to ask me, "Sir, do you know some spiritual magic? Kuṇḍalinī, yoga? This? That?" All for material benefit. Spiritualist means something magic so that you can get some material benefit. If by stretching your hand you can get some little quantity of gold, then you are spiritualist: "Oh, here is a man, wonderful spiritualist. He can create gold. He can cure disease by simply..." What is called? Fooing.(?) Like that. They want to see magic only for material benefit. What is called? Miracles. That is spiritualist. (aside:) Not in that way; let him sit backside this. Spiritual life means how to become immortal. Amṛtatvāya. So 'mṛtatvāya kalpate. Kṛṣṇa has explained,
- mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya
- śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ
- āgamāpāyino 'nityās
- tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata
- (BG 2.14)
Tāṁs titikṣasva. Don't be disturbed by the sensuous disturbance of the body. Become dhīra. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Become dhīra.
How I shall become immortal. How I shall not become subjected to the four principles of distressed condition—birth, death, disease and old age. Nobody is serious. They are so dull. Therefore they have been described, manda. Manda means so bad, so rascal that they have no ambition of life. They do not know what is the goal of life. Manda. Manda means "bad." And sumanda-matayaḥ. And if some of them, just to become little recognized as very religious, he will accept some rascal as guru, magician, and eat everything, do everything, and become spiritualist, and his rascal guru will say, "Yes, you can eat anything. You can do anything. Religion has nothing to do with eating." It is going on. The Christian people, it is explicitly, clearly said, "Thou shall not kill." But they are killing. Still, they are very much proud, "I am Christian." And what kind of Christian you are? You are regularly disobeying the order of Christ, and still you are Christian?
This secret we are missing. We are thinking we shall be happy by trying to satisfy our senses. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means don't try to satisfy your senses. You try to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa; automatically your senses will be satisfied. This is the secret of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The opposite party, they are thinking, "Oh, why shall I satisfy? Why shall I work for Kṛṣṇa the whole day and night? Let me try for the karmīs." Just like you are working whole day and night for Kṛṣṇa, they are thinking, "What fools they are. We are very intelligent. We are working for our own sense gratification whole day and night, and why they are working for Kṛṣṇa?" This is the difference between materialist and spiritualist. The spiritualist's endeavor is to work whole day and night strenuously without any hurt(?) simply for Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual life. And the materialist means the same endeavor, always trying to satisfy their personal senses. That is the difference, materialistic and spiritual. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we have to train our senses to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So long in other, previous, many, many thousands and millions of lives, we have simply tried to satisfy our senses, personal senses. Let this life be dedicated for satisfying Kṛṣṇa's senses. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One life. We have, several lives, we have tried to satisfy our personal senses. Let this life, at least one life, let me try, what happens. So we are not loser. Even we feel inconveniences by not satisfying our senses, but we are not loser. Try simply to satisfy Kṛṣṇa's senses; then it will be all right. So we shall stop. What is the time?
That is also psychological effect. At the same time, this light food, fruit juice or glucose water, that is easily digested, so there is no harm.
Similarly, we have to... Our, the present life is diseased condition, so if we want to cure this disease of repeated birth and death, then we have to restrict, restrict our bodily enjoyment, because we cannot enjoy. It is simply so-called enjoyment. Actually, we cannot enjoy this diseased condition of this body. Enjoyment, real enjoyment means that is nonstopping, nonstop. There is a verse in Mahābhārata. Ramante yoginaḥ anante (CC Madhya 9.29). Yoginaḥ, those who are yogis or spiritualists. Yogis means spiritualists. The general meaning of yogi is spiritualist, those who are endeavoring to emancipate from this material condition of life and try to elevate to the spiritual platform, he is called yogi. Now, those yogis are different types, but the method or process of spiritual realization may be different. Your process or my process may be a little different, but that does not hamper. The thing is that your aim is also spiritual realization. Just like generally there are three classes of spiritualists. The jñānīs, the yogis and the bhaktas. Jñānī means those who are trying to realize spiritual self through speculation of metaphysics and philosophy.
That is called bhajana-kriyā. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ atha bhajana-kriyā tataḥ anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. And as you are more and more engaged in spiritual activities, so, proportionately, your material activities and affection for material activities will diminish. Counteraction. When you engage in the spiritual activities, your material activities diminishes. But just mind that. Material activities and spiritual activities, difference is that... Suppose you are engaged as a medical man. You don't think that "If I become spiritually engaged, then I have to give up my profession." No, no. That is not. You have to spiritualize your profession. Just like Arjuna, he was a military man. He became a spiritualist. That means he spiritualized his military activity.
These are called viṣayāḥ. The materialistic way of life means these four things: eating, sleeping, defending and mating—sense gratification. But if we want to go to the spiritual platform, then these bodily demands, at least for the present, we have to regulate. We cannot enjoy material life without any restriction and at the same time, we can stand on the spiritual platform. That is the whole thing. The difficult problem is that: we want to be spiritualists by speculation only. That is the whole tendency. People are much interested in philosophical speculation without any practical life. In the modern world it is said, yaśo 'rthe dharma-yajanam. This is the symptom of this age. Yaśaḥ arthe. I want to associate with some organization, spiritual, just for the sake of name: "Oh, I am attached to that, such big organization." But, so far my life is concerned, it is as it is. As it is. I have seen that... I don't wish to name that particular... In some yoga institute, I have seen the members, they come. They hear, and they are hearing and coming for the last ten years. But unfortunately, they have not learned even the preliminary instruction of yoga. Yoga... Yoga... The whole process of yoga means indriya-saṁyama, controlling the senses. Controlling the senses. But I have seen. They have no control over senses. The whole yoga process means controlling the senses, nothing more.
So therefore there are two kinds of intelligence. One kind of intelligence is: apply the senses for unrestricted enjoyment. And another kind of intelligence is to apply the senses in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. So people... Now, suppose one has given up all material enjoyment but he's engaged in the spiritual service, in the transcendental service of the Lord. So materialists, they see what a nonsense he is, that he has given up all material enjoyment. He's now engaged in something which is vague or which is... There is no understanding whether he's right or wrong. He sees like that. So the materialist sees the spiritualist sleeping in the enjoyment of life. And the spiritualist sees the materialist that "What nonsense he is, that he has got this elevated, conscious life of human form of life, and he's spoiling in the material senses, in the material enjoyment. He's not taking interest in spiritual life. So he sees that he's sleeping, and he sees that he's sleeping. The materialist sees the spiritualist that he's nonsense; he's sleeping. And the spiritualist sees the materialist, nonsense that he's spoiling. Yā niśā sarva niśā, sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī, yasyāṁ jāgrati bhūtāni sā niśā paśyato muneḥ.
Night means when people sleep, and day means when they are awake. This is the understanding of day and night. So one, the materialistic persons, they are sleeping in the matter of spiritual understanding. So therefore the activities which we find in daytime of the materialistic person, actually that is night. For the spiritualistic person, they see that these people they got the facility of self-realization, this human form of life. How they are wasting by sleeping. And the materialistic persons, they are seeing, "Oh, these Kṛṣṇa conscious young boys, they have given up everything and they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. How nonsense. They are sleeping." So you see? So in the vision of the materialistic person, these activities are night, sleeping. And for the self-realized person, these activities are sleeping. You see? Just the opposite. They are seeing the Kṛṣṇa conscious person as wasting time and the Kṛṣṇa conscious person is seeing them as wasting time. This is the position. Go on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. People think it is equivocal. I ask you to become spiritualist; still, I ask you to work ordinarily, "Go work like this, work like this." They'll think, "What sort of spiritual life this is? They are also earning money, they are also working in the factory," or they are also doing this or that. So to the ordinary man it appears equivocal. But it is not equivocal. That is the real process of working. Go on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purport: "In the previous chapter, as a prelude to the Bhagavad-gītā, many different paths were explained, namely sāṅkhya-yoga, buddhi-yoga, controlling the senses by intelligence, work without fruitive desire, the position of the neophyte, etc. This was all presented unsystematically. A more organized outline of the path would be necessary for action and understanding. Arjuna therefore wanted to clear up these apparently confusing matters so that any common man could accept them without misinterpretation. Although Kṛṣṇa had no intention of confusing Arjuna by any jugglery of words, Arjuna could not follow the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness either by inertia or active service. In other words, by his questions he is clearing the path of Kṛṣṇa consciousness for all students who are serious about understanding the mystery of the Bhagavad-gītā."
"Oh, this is very nice thing, very palatable to my tongue. Oh, purchase it. I shall eat it." Now, when you become conversant with the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, you have to think whether this thing is palatable to the tongue of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Now you are thinking, "Let me purchase from the store this nice thing. It is very palatable to my taste." And when you actually become a learned scholar of Bhagavad-gītā, at that time you will have to think whether this thing will be palatable to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. The whole thing is there. When you learn that thing, when you want to please Kṛṣṇa and not yourself, then you become an expert spiritualist. That's all. So it is not very difficult thing. Very easy. Simply we have to learn how to reach that stage of life.
You haven't got to change anything. The same thing, example, that Arjuna was a military man, a householder, a family man, before hearing Bhagavad-gītā, and he remained the same family man, the same military man, but he became a great devotee of the Lord. That technique we have to learn. That technique is that Arjuna, in the beginning, he did not like to fight because he wanted to gratify his senses. He thought that "I shall be happy if I do not fight with my kinsmen because in the fighting my kinsmen will die and I shall be sorry. So what is the use of fighting like this?" That means the whole thing, whole program, is according to his own sense gratification.
So the spiritual knowledge becomes revealed. It is not subjected to any material acquisition. It is not subjected to any material acquisition of knowledge. It becomes revealed. How? Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau. One who has a staunch faith in the Supreme Lord and staunch faith in the personality of his spiritual master, bona fide, then he gets all the things revealed in himself. Spiritual things are not just like material things.
So according to Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-guhyatamam, the Lord says that "The most confidential part of knowledge I am speaking to you, my dear Arjuna, because you are My very dear friend, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66)." So one who has the conception of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and has surrendered unto Him, he is considered to be highest, topmost spiritualist.
Now, He explains that manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: (BG 7.3) "Out of many, many thousands of people, a few people may try how to get spiritual salvation." Not all. Everyone is not expected to hanker after spiritual salvation. That requires also many, many years qualification. So manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu. After many... Out of many, many thousands of people, one is very much anxious for spiritual realization. And then Lord Kṛṣṇa says, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). And out of many perfected spiritualists, some may know what is Kṛṣṇa. Just try to understand. First of all out of many, many, many thousands of people, who wants to have perfection in spiritual life, then those persons who have attained such perfection, out of them, one or two may understand what is Kṛṣṇa.
So the subject matter of Kṛṣṇa is not so easy. It is very difficult also. But one can understand very easily. That process is also prescribed in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: There is a word, ātmārāma, in Sanskrit. Ātmārāma means one who is satisfied with his self. He is called ātmārāma. Because self is the basic principle of this body, the soul. So one who is satisfied with his soul, he is called ātmārāma, or self-realized person. One who seeks pleasure externally, he is materialist, and one who seeks pleasure internally, he is spiritualist. That is the difference. Yes.
Revatīnandana: "An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of Kuntī, such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does not delight in them (BG 5.22)."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Material pleasure is circumstantial in contact with this body. Similarly material distress. So those who are ātmārāma, enjoying in the platform of soul, they are not concerned with this external pleasure and pain. Yes.
Revatīnandana: "Verse 23: Before giving up this present body, if one is able to tolerate the urges of the material senses and check the force of desire and anger he is a yogi and is happy in this world (BG 5.23)."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the perfection of yoga practice. The yoga practice means one should be tolerant. According to yoga system there is a practice. In winter season they go deep into the water up to this. In cold winter they dip into the water up to this and meditate. And in scorching heat they, I mean to say, ignite fire all side and sit down in the midst and meditate. These are the processes. What is that? To learn toleration. Toleration.
Anything, any happiness derived out of touch sensation, that is not real happiness. Rather, that is the gate for various miseries. The whole Vedic scripture describes that happiness derived of sense perception out of the body, that is not real happiness. If we are to enjoy real happiness, then we have to transcend these bodily pleasures. Happiness is there because I am spirit soul. Actually I am full of pleasure, but because my sense of happiness is being manifested through this matter, therefore we are being frustrated in deriving real pleasure. So those who are in the, advanced in spiritual life, they are called yogis. Yoginaḥ. Ramante yoginaḥ anante (CC Madhya 9.29). Those who are spiritualists, they also enjoy. But they enjoy in the real happiness which has no end. Any happiness which is ended at a certain point, that is not happiness. That is, rather, source of distress. Ādy-antavantaḥ kaunteya na teṣu ramate budhaḥ. Budhaḥ means who is learned. A learned person does not enjoy such flickering or transient happiness which is derived by sense touching.
There are different kinds of—parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). The Supreme Lord has various energies. Out of those various energies, three divisions are primary. Material energy, spiritual energy and marginal energy. We living entities we are marginal energy. The whole material world is material energy. And there is spiritual energy. The spiritual world. And we are marginal. So we are sitting either in the material energy, marginal means this way or that way. You can become spiritual or you become material. No third alternative. Either you become materialistic or become spiritualistic. So, so long we are in the material world, you are sitting on the material energy, therefore you are sitting in Kṛṣṇa. Because energy is not separated from Kṛṣṇa. Just like this light, this flame, there is heat and there is illumination. The two energies. The heat is not separated from the fire and the illumination is not separated from the fire. Therefore in one sense the heat is also fire, the illumination is also fire. Similarly this material energy is also Kṛṣṇa. So we are thinking that we are sitting on this floor but actually we are sitting in Kṛṣṇa. This is philosophy.
So Bhāgavata says such persons who are very nicely done their materialistic way of life, duties, but has not taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, what does he gain? This is the comparison. One joins this movement; due to some reason, immaturity, he falls down. For him the assurance is that he does not lose. He's still gainer. But one who's sticking to the material duties, but does not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Bhāgavata says, "What does he gain?" It is very important question. The spiritualistic duties, transcendental duties, Kṛṣṇa conscious duty is so nice that even if you fall down, whatever you have done, that is your guaranteed property. That is your guaranteed property. And anything, whatever you gain in this material world... Suppose you become very rich man, good factory, working. But as soon as this body's ended, everything is ended. Lost everything. These things will not go with you. Your factory, your skyscraper building, your millions of dollars, bank balance, that you'll have to leave behind you. You have to go with your work only, what you have done, pious or sinful activities. That will go with you. The result of pious activity and sinful activity will go with you. But in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, whatever you have done, it will go with you, and to give you other chance you'll have your birth in two nice places: śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41).
So these are material demands. "Give me some money, give me some followers, and give me a nice wife," that's all. But Lord Caitanya refuses. He says "I don't want all these things." Na janaṁ na dhanam. Dhanam means wealth and janam means followers. Na sundarīṁ kavitām, "or beautiful wife." Then what for you are worshiping? What for you are becoming devotee? He says mama janmani janmanīśvare (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). He's not asking for even liberation. Because the yogis, they want liberation, they have got demand. The materialists, they also have got demand, "I want this, I want that, I want that." So the so-called spiritualists, they also demand liberation. That is also demand. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "I don't want anything of this nature. Simply I want to be engaged in your service." Janmani janmani—birth after birth. That means, he does not say also, that "Stop my this, disease of birth and death." This is the stage of bhakti-yoga. There is no demand. Simply the only prayer is that You engage me in your service.
Kṛṣṇa says, yaḥ prayāti, "who leaves his body in this way," sa mad-bhāvaṁ yāti (BG 8.5), "he at once attains the perfection like Me, like My nature. His nature is transcendental. Therefore one attains at once, transcendental." Yāti nāsty atra saṁśayaḥ: "These things are to be taken up." Nāsty atra saṁśayaḥ: "There is no doubt about it."
Now, if we believe Kṛṣṇa as the supreme authority, if we believe Him, then we can adopt this. And there is no question of disbelieving Him, because all great souls, all great scholars and all great spiritualists... Arjuna, you say the example of Arjuna. He's not an ordinary man. He belongs to the royal order. And he's a very, I mean, a great fighter, great general. And he is taking instruction from Kṛṣṇa. If Arjuna has taken instruction from Kṛṣṇa... He's a... Rāmānujācārya has taken, accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. He... Śaṅkarācārya has accepted the Kṛṣṇa as Supreme. And all the ācāryas... Lord Caitanya has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. Then what is the difficulty of my understanding about His greatness? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Just like when we go to the market, if we see that everyone is purchasing at the same time, then I think, "Oh, undoubtedly it is the exactly price. Oh, let me purchase at this price." The doubt is gone at once, because I see several persons, they're accepting at that price. So it is right price. That is the standard. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186).
He is nice poet from materialistic point of view. That's all. To satisfy the materialistic person. He is not a nice poet from spiritualistic point of view. We have nothing to do with him. (chuckles) We have to do with the poet like Vyāsadeva. Don't you see how nicely he has written Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam? There is no comparison, even from the literary point of view. He is perfect poet. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām, anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ... (SB 1.7.6). People do not know this, that to get out of the clutches of māyā, all this nonsense, the only thing is bhakti-yogam. And people do not know it. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. The greatest poet, vidvān, learned Vyāsadeva, has written this Bhāgavatam. So he is the greatest poet.
Now, just like... It is very clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like a diseased man, he's forbidden by the doctor, "Oh, you don't eat. You don't have sex life. You don't, don't..." So many don't's. But he is forced to accept that don't, but inner side he feels, "Oh, if I get, I'll be happy." Inner side is want. But a spiritualist, inner side is strong. He's not impotent, but he'll don't like sex intercourse. Doesn't like. He hates. That is spiritual life. Inner side is strong enough. He can marry thrice, but he has got a detachment. That is spiritual life. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. Just like if you get something superior, naturally, you give up all inferior things.
So we want enjoyment, but this atheism or this voidness, this impersonalism, they have created such an atmosphere that we are simply speculating, but we are addicted to these material enjoyments. That is not the process. Here it is said, puruṣaḥ sa paraḥ pārtha bhaktyā labhyas tv ananyayā. If you accept this principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the devotional path, and if you worship that Supreme Personality of Godhead, then you can have the spiritual realization and you prepare yourself and you become detached from this material enjoyment. Your life becomes sublime. Oh. That is the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Worldwide is also the capitalistic party, the communistic party. In our country also there is congress party. So party's already there. Socially also, oh, we are Christian, I am Jew, I am Hindu. Of course, this is religiously. And socially also. In India, there is very social party. So you cannot avoid this partyism. All ladies and gentlemen who are present here, I ask you, do you not belong to any party? Can you deny that "I don't belong to any party"? Oh, everyone belongs to some party.
Now spiritualism, spiritualism means that we should identify ourself as God's party. That's all. That is spiritualism. They ask so many things, that, why the materialists are called crazy by the spiritualists? Oh, that is also partyism. These materialists also call, say to the spiritualists, they are crazy. Just like we are, we have formed some Society of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, and, and those who do not like it, they say we are crazy fellows. We are assembly of crazy fellows. And, similarly, we call others who do not associate with us, they are crazy fellows. So there is, we have written pamphlet, booklet, "Who is Crazy?". Now how to decide? You are thinking the Swamiji and the party, they are crazy. And we are thinking those who are materially engaged, they're crazy. Now how to decide it? Can you suggest any way how to decide it, how, who is crazy?
That is the real vision. A paṇḍita means he sees. There is... For a advanced spiritualist, advanced Kṛṣṇa consciousness person, there is no such distinctive, "Here is American; here is Indian; here is brāhmaṇa; here is śūdra; here is Hindu; here is Muslim." No. He has no such vision. He has the vision that within this body, the spirit soul is there. That is part and parcel of God, or Kṛṣṇa. He is suffering on account of different dresses, different conception of... Therefore he should be released from this misconception of life. That is called paṇḍita.
The whole world is going on under this misconception of life, that "I am this body." And under this misconception he is thinking that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra," "I am black" and "white," "fat" and "thin," all these things. This is called ignorance.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Big, big rich men in America, they spend fifty thousand dollars in a week in Florida for seeing naked dance. Is it not? Is it not a fact? Because they are śūdras. They do not know how to spend money. And formerly, before this, people were little intelligent, or at least they had some religious faith. So they constructed temple, churches, mosque. Nowadays these things is stopped. As soon as one gets money, "How to spend it after sense gratification?"
So formerly there was no meetings of the śūdras. The meeting was held about, amongst the brāhmaṇas, saintly persons, to consider how people will remain happy, how their spiritualistic life will be advanced. Therefore the brāhmaṇas were the heads, and others, kṣatriyas and vaiśyas and śūdras, they used to take instruction from the brāhmaṇas, for their livelihood. That was very good system. That is natural. Just like in this body there are the same brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇa is the head, the brain, and the kṣatriya the arms, and vaiśya the belly , and śūdras is the legs. So when the body is healthy condition, the brain is very nice, then the brain gives direction to the legs, to the hands, to the belly. Brain, if one has got good brain, he does not eat much. "Why should I eat more? When I am not hungry, why shall I load the belly?" It requires brain. And "No, here is a very nice palatable thing. Let me load it." Because he has no brain. And after loading, then dysentery. You see? So in every action, the brain is required.
In the, in the Padma Purāṇa also there is a verse, ramante yogino 'nante: "Those who are yogis..." Yogi means transcendentalist, not the so-called yogi. Those who have contacted the Absolute Truth, they are called yogis. So yoginaḥ, actually a yogi, ramante, they enjoy. They also enjoy. Why they are, I mean to say, undergoing so much austerities and penances and regulative principles? Because they are trying for being elevated to the real platform of happiness. So ramante yogino 'nante. Everyone is hankering after happiness, either materialistic or spiritualistic, but the difference is that materialistic, materialistic persons, they are satisfied with temporary happiness, and those who are transcendentalists, they are also seeking happiness. That is real happiness, spiritual happiness, eternal happiness. So therefore it is stated in the Padma Purāṇa that ramante yogino 'nante. Anante means unlimited happiness. They enjoy unlimited happiness. Ramante yogino 'nante. And satyānande. And that is real happiness. Happiness does not mean it is for few minutes. No. Happiness should continue, eternally. One should be situated in that happiness so that other, temporary happiness will not attract him.
Therefore Vaiṣṇava never accepts sāyujya-mukti, to become one with the Supreme. Because Vaiṣṇava knows that impersonal advancement is risky. They know it perfectly. Therefore a Vaiṣṇava never... Vaiṣṇava is not anxious for any kind of mukti. Dīyamānaṁ na gṛhṇanti. They don't want... Especially Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, they don't want mukti. They are happy wherever they are existing. If they get the chance of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, that is perfection of life. They don't want anything more. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. We should not imitate, but the position is like that. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was not at all afraid of this material world. He was very cautious. A spiritualist, a devotee, a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, should be very cautious. But not afraid to meet any dangerous position. But must be cautious. Cautious in this way, that he may not fall down again under the clutches of māyā. This should be, care should be taken.
"If I am eternal, why I have to change my body?" This is intelligence.
So that intelligence is there. Here it is said, lokasya ajānataḥ. The rascals, the fools, ajānataḥ, foolish... Ajānataḥ is another meaning of foolish. Ajānataḥ, ajñāna, without any knowledge how we can stop this perpetual... Not perpetual, but at least for the time being, why we are subjected to these anartha? This is the enquiry. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. But they do not know it. Ask anybody of this material world that "What is the cause of your suffering?" They cannot explain; they do not know it. Therefore it is particularly mentioned, ajānataḥ: "They do not know how to mitigate this suffering." Therefore vidvān. Vidvān, one who has got full knowledge, Vyāsadeva, he has made this sātvata-saṁhitām. Saṁhitā means Vedic knowledge, and sātvata means pure, completely pure, or for the Vaiṣṇavas or the perfect spiritualists. Lokasya ajānataḥ vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām (SB 1.7.6). How we can utilize this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sātvata-saṁhitā? That is also explained in the next verse,
- yasyāṁ vai śrūyamāṇāyāṁ
- kṛṣṇe parama-pūruṣe
- bhaktir utpadyate puṁsaḥ
- śoka-moha-bhayāpahā
- (SB 1.7.7)
Śoka-moha-bhaya, these things are our constant companions. Śoka. Śoka means lamenting, and moha means illusion. And bhaya, bhaya means fearfulness.
"And you were also... But you forget because you have got past, present, future. I have no such thing. Therefore I remember."
So in this way, if people become irreligious or not spiritual, the burden of the world becomes heavier, unbearable. That you can understand. I have already explained. This body, this body, you weigh it. Say, it is one man, fifty seras or something like... But as soon as it will be dead, the burden will... The weight will increase. Is it not? What do you think? The weight will increase. Not the same weight. So, so long people are materialistic, the burden will increase. And so long people are spiritualistic, there will be no burden. So bhārāvatāraṇāya anye bhuvo nāva ivodadhau. Just like if there is a boat, then you can cross over the sea or the river with the help, so when you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you can cross over the sea of nescience very easily. Bhuvo nāva iva udadhau, sīdantyā bhūri-bhāreṇa (SB 1.8.34). Bhūri-bhāreṇa, very heavily burdened. So she was lamenting, "My Lord, save me." So the conclusion is that if people become simply atheistic or materialistic... Materialistic means atheistic. And then the weight of the earth, or any planet, will increase and the situation will degrade, and everyone will be unhappy and there will be restlessness. And at that time, Kṛṣṇa comes. He says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7).
Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). At the time of death, if you can remember Nārāyaṇa-Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa, the same thing—then your life is successful, whatever you do. In Bengal there is a proverb, it is called bhajana kara sādhana kara murte janle hoya.(?) Means you may be very big stalwart spiritualist or yogis, or there are so many big, big things, so whatever you do, that is all right. Because they say that "Everything is leading to the Supreme, this way or that way." That has been described here, sāṅkhya-yoga, karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga or dhyāna-yoga. So many things they have manufactured, that's all right. And you say that "Whatever path we may follow, ultimately we go to the same goal." That is very nice, provided if you actually go to the same goal. Otherwise, it is misleading. That is describe here, that never mind. You say that "Whatever path one may take, it leads to the same goal." We accept it. That is described here. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). Whatever you have done may be very good, but at the time of death, if you forget Nārāyaṇa, then it's all useless, all useless.
For seeking money, money, money, money. Divā cārthehayā rājan. Then when he gets money, "Let's spend it for sense gratification, for family maintenance." So in this way materialistic person waste their time day and night. Where is time? Ask any materialistic person, 'Why don't you come to our temple, sir? Why don't you hear Bhagavad-gītā?" "We have not time."Because they're wasting time in that way. You see? So this is the materialistic life.
And spiritualistic life means that one should be trained up as brahmacārī. Then regulated life in gṛhastha, regulated life. Gṛhastha is not bad. Family life is not bad. Therefore it is called gṛhastha-āśrama. Āśrama means..., this very word is meant where the spiritual cultivation is practiced. That is called āśrama. So it may be household life, it may be renounced order of life, it may be brahmacārī, student's life, or retired life. The spiritual culture must be there. That is human civilization. If there's no spiritual culture, that is not human society. That is animal society. The cats and dog, they have no spiritual culture.
They actually form so many associations to develop their business capacity. Practical. There is stock exchange association, this market association, that market association. There is club, association of the drunkards. So there are many association, and this association, different types of association, is the cause of bondage in that particular thing. Everyone knows it. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. Similarly, if you transfer the association to the sādhu, then mokṣa-dvāram apāvṛtam, the door for liberation is open. If you associate with materialistic persons, then your bondage becomes more and more tightened, and if you associate with sādhu, or spiritualist, then your bondage becomes slackened, or the door of liberation becomes open. Mokṣa-dvāram apāvṛtam.
Yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Sādhu... Sādhu-saṅga and yoṣit-saṅga. Yoṣit means woman, or things which are meant for sense gratification. Woman is symbolical representation of sense gratification, but anything meant for sense gratification is called yoṣit. Tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Yoṣitām. So this material world is full of yoṣit-saṅga. Everyone is interested for sense gratification.
To become one with the Supreme, they never desire. They never desire. They... Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu is saying, mama janmani janmani īśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi: "My dear Lord, I do not want to stop even." Mukti means stopping of this repetition of birth, death. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, mama janmani janmani: "Let Me take birth after birth. It doesn't matter. But let Me be engaged in Your service." That is ānanda. That is real ānanda, not that you become one with...
And one means you cannot enter into the spiritual planets. There are so many, not devotees but spiritualists; they want to become one. That oneness means that you remain outside the spiritual planet in the brahma-jyotir, in the rays. We are part and parcel of the rays. Just like I have given the example: the sun rays means combination of so many bright, minute, atomic particles. Similarly, we can remain as atomic soul outside. Just like this sunshine is outside the sphere of the sun globe. It is outside. It is not... Inside also, that is brightness, but the sunshine is outside the sun globe, and inside there is sun-god. That information we get from Bhagavad-gītā. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). The sun planet is also a planet like this, but it is fiery planet. And it is earthly planet. The sun planet is fire. But fire and earth is the same material element. Bhūmir āpaḥ analaḥ. Analaḥ. Analaḥ means fire. So either it is made of earth or it is made of fire or it is made of water or it is made of air or prominent, it is all material.
He's afraid of death, but he says, "Oh, that is not a problem." He has got his experience that at the time of death it is very severe punishment. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam: "You may be satisfied with your foolish idea that you are very happy, but if you are intelligent then you must always keep yourself..." The Cānakya Paṇḍita also said that those who advancing in spiritual life, they should place before him that "Here is death," just before him. And those who are karmīs, like ass, they'll always think that "I'll never die." The spiritualist always thinks that "I am dying, dying, dying, going to die next moment." And the karmīs, he should think that "I'll live forever." Otherwise he cannot work. He cannot. Unless he is put into this ignorance that he'll never die, he cannot work.
So at the modern age the people are simply kept into ignorance so that they can work like ass and cow and be satisfied. This is the present civilization. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a fight against this civilization, this wrong civilization. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness... the people are being denied their privilege. The human life is meant for getting out of this ignorance of life. But people are being put into ignorance, and their human life is being spoiled.
Generally, when you pass a road you see the boys are playing, very much busy, and they're very jolly in playing. Bālas tāvad krīḍāsaktas taruṇas tāvad taruṇī raktaḥ. And young boys, they're after young girls. You see? Taruṇas tāvad taruṇī-rakto vṛddhas tāvad anta-magnaḥ. And the old man they are very much morose, what is to be done next. Parame brahmaṇi ko 'pi na lagnaḥ. Oh, everyone is busy. Nobody's interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual life. Everyone is busy. How they are spoiling their life! That is the version of Śaṅkarācārya. He's lamenting, that the boys, the youths, the old man, they are very happy in their materialistic way of life, but a spiritualistic man like Śaṅkarācārya or Lord Jesus Christ, they are unhappy, "Oh, what foolish things they are doing." That is the thankless task of persons who are spiritually enlightened. They can see it plain that how they are spoiling their valuable life. Simply for sense gratification.
Materialism means that you are dealing with earth, water, fire, air, or the ether, or mind, intelligence, so far. These are the subject matters of studying materialism. But God says: "They are My separated energies." These matters, you have not produced this earth, water, air, fire. That's a fact. That is produced by the energy of God. So while dealing with material things, if you remember that this material thing is produced by God then you are perfect. And if you theorize that it has dropped from the sky, then you are materialistic. That is the difference between materialist and spiritualist. A spiritualist knows that wherefrom this earth has come, wherefrom the water has come, wherefrom this fire has come. Then he is spiritualist, God conscious. And one does not know, he's ignorant. Actually, that is the fact. But one who is ignorant of the fact, he's materialist. And one who knows the source of this material elements, he is spiritualist. That is the difference. Therefore the conclusion is one who does not know God, he is materialist and one knows God, he is spiritualist.
We cannot make any advance, any department of knowledge. Sometimes we sleep more by intoxicating habit. So niṣphalaṁ yad asau rātryāṁ. The whole night is wasted because we cannot produce anything. There are two kinds of production: material production and spiritual production. Arthadam. Artha means factual profit. So there are two kinds of profit. Those who are materialists, they calculate profit by dollars, and those who are spiritualists, they calculate profit: "How much I have advanced today in spiritual or Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Both of them are profits. So either make this profit or that profit, but don't waste your time. That is the proposal. But the best profit is, for human form of life, to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So he has analyzed that mugdhasya bālye kaiśore krīdato yāti vimśatiḥ (SB 7.6.7). So fifty years immediately minus from our life. Then, by playing in youthhood and childhood, another twenty years. Seventy years minus. Then jarayā grasta dehasya yāty akalpasya vimśatiḥ. Then, when old age comes, by disease, by invalidity, another twenty years minus. That means fifty plus twenty plus twenty. Out of hundred years, ninety years gone.
So he was praying this way, that brahmādayaḥ sura-gaṇa munayo 'tha siddhāḥ: "I see here there are so many great personalities just like Brahmā, Śiva, and Indra, Candra, all great demigods." Brahmādayaḥ sura-gaṇāḥ. Sura-gaṇāḥ means demigods; and munayo, great saintly persons, sages, all of them are here. And siddhya. Siddhya means the residents of the Siddhaloka. There is a planet within this universe which is caled Siddhaloka. Siddhaloka means there the inhabitants are so highly elevated. They are also materialists. They are also not spiritualists. But still, they are materially so advanced that the description is... Here, in this planet, we are flying in the sky in the outer space with some machine, but there, in that planet, Siddhaloka, the persons are so elevated, either you call materially or spiritually... Actually, they are materially. These are material, that they can fly in the sky without any machine, without any machine. Wherever they like, they can go. Whatever they want, immediately... That is yoga-siddhi. You have heard of so much advertisement of yoga. Actually, when one becomes perfect in yoga, aṣṭa-siddhi-yoga, eight kinds of material perfection, that he can become the smallest... Smaller than the atom he can become. He can go out from anywhere. You lock him in airtight packed, but he'll come out. This is called animā-siddhi.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Just the only benefit of such exercises is to concentrate the mind. The mind is very disturbed. So that is also materialist. That means jñānī, yogi and karmī. Karmī means those who are working very hard day and night simply for sense gratification. That's all. They are called karmīs. And jñānī means they are finding out solution by mental speculation. And yogi means they are trying to find out spiritual salvation by bodily exercises. They are all, in strict sense, they are all materialist. There is no question of spiritualist. Spiritualism (means) there where one understands that what is the constitutional position of spirit and act according to that. Therefore bhakti, this devotional service, is only spiritualism because those who are devotees, they know that they are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and therefore to be engaged in transcendental loving service of the Supreme Lord is spiritualism.
"In the lower stage, a devotee goes to the temple or to the church or to the mosque, with great devotion and faith offers prayers to the Lord, but he has no knowledge about other devotees," na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, "and he does not know the duty to others." A devotee should not be satisfied simply by elevating himself in spiritual advancement. He has got other duties also. What is that other duties? That those who are innocent, those who are not interested... Everyone is interested, but there are persons who have forgotten his relationship with God. Therefore it is the duty of the devotee to enlighten others. That is required. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he also preached the sense of God, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is the duty of devotee. It is the duty of good son of God, but the..., those who are in the lower status, they have not developed such consciousness that "I have to preach the philosophy of God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness to others." They are simply satisfied themselves. They go to the church or mosque or temple, offer their prayers in devotion. That's all.
So the next stage is, one who is advanced spiritualist, he has got four visions.
Just like these Bowery Street men, they are lying on the footpath. They are satisfied. Condemned condition, but they are satisfied. We should not be satisfied in that way. That is very wretched condition. So we are all in wretched condition under the grip of material nature, always suffering threefold miseries. So we should be conscious. Unless we are conscious about this fact, then our human life is spoiled. They say that you spiritualists, you are very pessimistic. Yes. He should be pessimistic. There is no question of being optimistic. Where is the optimistic view?
So unless one becomes very much pessimistic of this material world... Actually, they are, but they want to forget. Somebody is trying to forget it by liquor. Somebody is trying to forget by LSD, and somebody is marijuana, or gañja. But that forgetfulness will not save you. You have to actually forget it, that "This is a condemned place," and you cannot forget this unless you have got ideal place before you. Therefore this śruti-pramāṇa, the Vedic knowledge, will give you: "Here is your ideal place, Kṛṣṇa. Come back to Kṛṣṇa. Try for it. Try your best for this." That is the life. That is human life. And unless one is not conscious to this platform, he is defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. We are born ignorant. And if we are educated more, more, more into the platform of ignorance, then our life is all defeat, parābhava. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long one is not awakened to spiritual consciousness... "What I am? Why I am suffering? Is there any remedy? How I can save me?"—these questions should arise.
Varieties of grains and milk, fat, that's all. Similarly, all these varieties, manifestations in the material world, they are... Yatra, yatra, tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ yathā vinimayo, oh, and yatra trisargo 'mṛṣā.
Amṛṣā. It is false. But it appears to be just like real. Foolish living entities, under the spell of illusory energy, they have accepted this false exchange of material elements as reality. This is called materialism. One who has accepted this false representation of reality, they are called materialists. And one who knows the real position of this material world, he's spiritualist. That is the difference between materialism and spiritualism. So this, this material representation, false representation, are temporary. The Vaiṣṇava philosophy, they do not say false. Why they will say false? God is real. His energy is real. You cannot say material energy as unreal, because God is there, and His energy is there. Just like the fire is there, the heat is there, the temperature is there. You cannot say temperature false. It may be manifested at some time. Or it may not manifest. Just like the temperature of sun is not perceived nowadays because it is due to the (?) cold season. But the temperature is the same, but it is manifested during June-July. It is very strongly, and other seasons, it is not manifested. Similarly, this material energy, you cannot say that it is false.
So far those who are in not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, their material academic qualification has no value, no value, however M.A., Ph.D. he may be. Why? Mano-rathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ. Because the materialist without Kṛṣṇa consciousness... That is a materialist. One who has no conception of God, or Kṛṣṇa, and his proper relationship with Him, one who does not know the science of God, he is called materialist. Materialist does not mean something extraordinary (?) personality. One who does not know about Kṛṣṇa, he is materialist. And one who makes progress in the science of Kṛṣṇa under regulation and under principles, they are called spiritualists. So materialists, the disease is that harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathena asati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Unless we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully, we shall hover over the mental plane. We find so many philosophers, doctors of philosophy, they can go on speculating, mental plane, manaḥ, but actually they are asat. Their activities will be seen in materialistic. There is no spiritualistic realization.
General Lectures
The whole material civilization is a process of hard struggle of life, ending in birth, death, old age and disease. The human society is struggling fruitlessly against these perpetual problems of life in different ways. Some of them are making material attempts and some of them are making partially spiritual attempts. The materialists are trying to solve the problems by achievement of scientific knowledge, education, philosophy, morality, ethics, poetic thoughts, etc., and the spiritualists are trying to solve the problems by different theses like discerning matter from spirit in various ways. And some of them are trying as mystic yogis to arrive at the right conclusion. But all of them must know it for certain that in this age of Kali, or the age of quarrel and dissension, there is no possibility of success without accepting the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī, the speaker of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, has therefore recommended that everyone, be he a fruitive worker, a salvationist or a mystic yogi, if actually he wants to be freed from the pangs of material existence, he must take to the process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.
So phalgu-vairāgya and yukta-vairāgya. Phalgu-vairāgya means inferior renunciation, or false renunciation. And yukta-vairāgya means actual renunciation. What is that difference? Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they are giving up this world as false, māyā. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Just like sometimes we are criticized because we are using the advantages offered by the material science. Just like I am using this microphone. So the people may criticize, "If this world is false, the material world is false, then why should I take advantage of this material product?" They expect that those who are spiritualists, they should go to Himalayas, giving up, giving up everything material and meditate in a solitary place, in snow-covered area. But Vaiṣṇava philosophy does not think like that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) He does not recommend, although He was a sannyāsī, He was in renounced order of life. He gave up His family, beautiful wife, very affectionate mother, very comfortable home, very prestige, too much prestige of His personality in the society. He gave up everything. He was in the prime age of His youthful life, twenty-four years only, but He gave up everything.
Then according to the God's law, you become criminal, you are punishable. That is God's law. (break) It is a common sense. You eat; I eat. It is a common philosophy. So I must eat what I need and you must eat what you need. That's not a very big philosophical problem. Everyone knows what you eat. But don't eat more. Suppose I can eat so much. And if I eat more, then I get indigestion. That is the punishment of the laws of nature. I get dysentery. Then I'll have to starve for three days because I've eaten more. So yuktāhāra-vihārasya yoga bhavati siddhitaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said if you want to be a yogi or spiritualist, you should not take more than what you can digest, what can you eat. Yuktāhāra. You can satisfy your hunger, but according to yogic principle. Or from health point of view, even if you can eat so much, you can understand that "I can eat so much," you should not eat the whole thing. You should eat half. And one fourth you shall fill up with water, and one fourth you should leave vacant so that there may be ventilation, your digestion will be easily done. This is Āyurvedic law. Even if you think that you can eat so much, you should not voluntarily eat so much. You should eat half, and one-fourth you should fill up with water, and one-fourth you keep vacant for air ventilation. Then there will be no disease. It is hygienic principle. And as soon as you eat more than what you can digest, you become diseased. That means you are punished. Similarly, in every action you can have your portion as you need, but don't take more. Then it is helpful to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yuktāhāra vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: As it is. Because, just like sunshine. Sunshine is not sun, in one sense, but it is sun because in the sunshine there is heat and light and in the sun there is heat and light. So there is no difference. But still sunshine is not the sun. Therefore that is our philosophy, acintya bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different.
Śyāmasundara: So in a sense this is spirit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is spirit actually. But because I have no sense of Kṛṣṇa, I am taking it as matter. Just like sometimes people criticize that "You are spiritualists, you hate materialism, why you are using this table, why you are using this typewriter, microphone." But our reply is that it is not matter, it is spirit. But when you use it for your sense gratification then it is material. Just like prasādam—the people will say "What is this nonsense, prasādam, we are taking also dahl, rice, capātī, how it becomes spiritual?" They can argue like that and sometimes they do that. But, they do not know that we are accepting this dahl, rice, capātī in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Actually it belongs to Kṛṣṇa. They, you cannot produce dahl, rice, it is Kṛṣṇa's production; everything is Kṛṣṇa's production. But when you forget Kṛṣṇa, his relationship with Kṛṣṇa, then it is material. Therefore you revive the relationship with Kṛṣṇa, you offer to Kṛṣṇa, then you understand Kṛṣṇa has eaten, now let us take. Therefore it is spiritual. The consciousness is spiritual.
Śyāmasundara: He says that all ideas or theories find their verification or their fulfillment through social practice. In other words, if something is a theory, if it's practiced and found to be true, then it is true.
Prabhupāda: Here it is true. In India still, those who are spiritualists. We have seen. Now, they are tolerating severe cold without any difficulty. For a materialist it is very difficult. From practical also, those who are advanced in spiritual life, they have no disease practically. They don't go to doctor. So these are practical. How can you deny these are not practical? They can live any condition, without any food, without any vitamin. Are these not practical? So we take that advancement of spiritual life makes our life more comfortable. That is practical. Without being dependent on doctors and this vitamin and that, so many, so many things. That is practical. If I have to depend on so many things, then where is the practical? Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends that if you can... (break)
Śyāmasundara: He says that natural laws and ideas, verification of ideas, comes about through class struggle, material production and scientific experiment. That which we know for sure, certainty.
Prabhupāda: (to guest) How are you?
Prabhupāda: How they will work together? They require Lenin, Stalin, or something like that, to force them to work. Still, in Communist country there are manager class. Not only worker class, the manager class. So this is all utopian theory. It has no practical value.
Hayagrīva: In the United States all of the successful utopian communities have had a strong religious leader.
Prabhupāda: Leader must be there, religious or not religious. Everyone has leader. The Communist has got leader, and the spiritualists, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we have also leader. So without leader nothing can be done. They may defy leadership, they may defy authority, but one who defies authority, he wants to become authority. So this is natural. Without leader nothing can be done.
| Page Title: | Spiritualist (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 03 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=49, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 49 |