Spiritual energy (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"spiritual energies" |"spiritual energy"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: But when you go to the government state, they are equally important. They are distributing the finance everywhere. So similarly either you take material energy or spiritual energy or marginal energy, all energy of God's, Kṛṣṇa's, but they are acting differently. So, so far I am marginal energy, if I am under the control of the material energy, that is my misfortune. But if I am controlled by the spiritual energy, that is my fortune. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). They take shelter of the spiritual energy. They are mahātmā, and what is their symptom: bhajanty ananya manaso, simply engaged in devotional service. That, that is required.

Devotees: Haribol!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: No. You are not matter. You are spirit. Your body is matter. You are also one of the energies. You are spiritual energy and your body is material energy. And because you are spiritual energy, therefore your intimate relationship with the spirit soul or the Supreme Soul... That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. The body will change, but you, as spirit soul, you will not change. You are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Body being changed, that is not changed. That is eternal. So we have to pick up our eternal relationship with God. That is missing.

Guest (1): I'd like to know how physical things that are done, as chanting or dancing or... Are there no...? If you consider , as having any importance. How do these physical things affect our spiritual understanding?

Prabhupāda: Physical... Just like a milk preparation. You take large quantity of milk, you get diarrhea. But the same milk, if it is prepared into yogurt, if you take it, your diarrhea will be cured. So physical things, when treated spiritually, it cures physical disease.

Guest (4) (Indian man): You said the approach to spiritual goal, through this way, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma. Okay. Now there is another philosophy which has been preached by Ramakrishna and Vivekananda: "The service of man is the service of God."

Prabhupāda: And why not service of God service of man?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That also they do not understand properly, because they do not see the spiritual energy. Just like we know that within this body there is a small bit of spiritual energy, spark, which is ten thousand part of the tip of the hair. How small it is. But due to its presence within the body, the body is working so nicely. We know that, that how a small particle of spiritual energy can work so wonderfully. They do not know it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So nowadays the scientists are also thinking that there have been so many mistakes, so...

Prabhupāda: They will find out.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they say that this atomic energy, this bombing, was a tremendous mistake on the part of the... They say this mostly responsible by politicians, not on the part of scientists, the scientists say. But on the other hand, the public say, people say, the scientists are responsible because they discovered the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are responsible. If you give a sharpened razor in the hands of a child, the child will cut here and there. So who is responsible: the parent or the child?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Parent.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1972, Vrndavana:

Gurudāsa: Preaching gives that spiritual energy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So one must be qualified to preach. If he is a cheater, how he can preach?

Gurudāsa: If he's preaching, the qualification will come.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he is sincere, then his capacity will increase. Otherwise, if he wants to cheat, then it will decrease.

Gurudāsa: So what is the purpose for very large temples in India? Just for the...

Prabhupāda: Just to attract people to give them spiritual inspiration. That is the purpose of temple. Not that you think that "People will come and give me money and I shall eat and sleep very nicely." Then it will gradually become Rādhā-Dāmodara temple or any other temple. Bharatpur Mahārāja's house.

Gurudāsa: I'm thinking that if we're endeavoring with as much energy to preach and have a modest temple that everyone's energy will be increased, our devotees' and the outsiders'.

Prabhupāda: That is the basic principle. If you lose your energy, then it is everything is lost. And to keep the energy intact, you must be very strict in following the principles.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Handling every day. Still they'll not. Dog's obstinacy. That's all. They're seeing practically, that the material energy cannot work independently unless the spiritual energy joins. So how they can expect the whole cosmic manifestation, which is matter only, has come out automatically? We are practically seeing, a very nice car, Cadillac. But if there is no driver, what is the use of that car? A computer machine. Unless the man knows how to work it, pushes the button, it does not work. So practically we are seeing that without superior energy, the material energy does not act. Still they'll not believe it. Therefore in this wonderful cosmic manifestation, there must be handling of a superior energy. And that they do not know. They are amazed with this material arrangement. Just like a foolish person is amazed by seeing the mechanical, big machine. So many parts. But another person knows that, however wonderful machine it may be, unless the operator comes and pushes the button, it will not work. This is intelligence. Therefore who is important? The operator or the machine? So we are concerned with the operator, Kṛṣṇa, not with the machine. If you say: "How do you know that He's the operator?" He says: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My superintendence, the whole cosmic manifestation is working." The difference is you don't believe. I believe. That's all. I take it immediately: "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is operating." Therefore I have no problem. Somebody's operating, that you have to accept. But you do not know who is that person. At least, we have got knowledge, here is the person. That's all. Now if you say: "No, Kṛṣṇa is not the person," then you have to accept another person. So present him, that "Here is the person, not Kṛṣṇa. Another..." That you cannot. So in the absence of your knowledge, you have to accept my proposal. (break) Can you create a stem like this in your laboratory?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's not possible.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like expert electrician, the same energy, electric, converting into heat, converting into refrigerator. The energy is the same. Both places the electricity is working, but by his expert management, one is heater, one is cooler. But heat and cool completely different, just opposite. That is stated in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate... (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Ah. Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā. Both matter and spirit, they are energy of the Supreme. So the energy or the energetic—non-different. But by His arrangement, one is working as superior, one is working as inferior. The same example, that the same electric energy is acting as cooler and acting as heater. But the energy is the same. Similarly, originally the energy is God's energy. So God's energy and God, there is no difference. But by his manipulation one is working as material energy, another is working... This is difference. Therefore originally it comes all spiritual energy, life. Therefore we have to take everything from life, not from the dead. Same example: The finger is first coming, life, and then the nail is coming, matter. Not that first of all nail is coming. You can study. This is meditation.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in any case, everything is controlled by the superior energy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That superior energy is life. A small seed of banyan tree fructifies; there is life, and the big tree comes. So many wood, so many twigs, so many things, huge quantity. Here is the proof. Life is the origin. According to our Vedic description, Brahmā is first created. He is life. Not that matter is first created, then Brahmā comes. No. And Brahmā comes from Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu is life, the supreme life. Then Brahmā creates this universe. That is Vedic version. What do you think?

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So everything is working under direction. Why do the rascals say like that? The aeroplane is a big machine. It is flying, but under the direction of a small spiritual spark, the driver, pilot. How you can deny? So as the small spiritual spark can direct a so-called gigantic plane, similarly, the big spiritual spark is directing this whole cosmic manifest... What is the difficulty to understand? You cannot say that "Without that spiritual spark, that airplane can be operated." You cannot say. That is not possible. You prove that "Without that spiritual small spark, this big 747 aeroplane will..." You cannot prove that. Where is your proof? You have to put that small spiritual spark. First of all the pilot body. Now, within that body, Kṛṣṇa says, asmin dehe, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ, tathā dehāntaram (BG 2.13). There is dehinaḥ. There is a proprietor of this body. So that proprietor is 1/10,000th part of the tip of the hair, very, very, small, atomic. On account of that atomic spiritual energy, there is working. This is bare fact. That small atomic spiritual energy is within this body, and therefore the body is working, and therefore the plane is working. Where is the difficulty to understand? Now, this man thinks himself very stout and strong, but why he is stout and strong? On account of that small spiritual spark is there. As soon as the small spiritual spark is gone, stout and strong has no meaning. Immediately all the birds will come. Vultures will come and eat him, eat the body. Immediately.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When the spirit goes out, the other living entities are not afraid of anymore.

Prabhupāda: No. Means he is finished. He is finished. That prayer was Kuntī's. That "If you go away, then where is... Everything will be finished. Now they are looking so nice."

Brahmānanda: Oh. Similarly...

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The material energy, it is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. The spiritual en... Kṛṣṇa Himself is spiritual energy. Exactly like that is. This weather is coming from sun but sun is covered. The weather created by sun makes himself covered; not himself covered, it is covering our eyes. Sun is not covered. My eyes are covered. Therefore material means when our consciousness is not developed. That's the meaning. It is somehow or other covered. That is material. Where is our scientist? They... The mistake of the scientist is that they do not accept two energies, the material and spiritual.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Prabhupāda: They accept one energy. We accept also that. But they, defect is they are beginning from the material. That is their method. Just like this weather is beginning from the light and gradually it is becoming dark. So darkest part or the dark part is called material. But the dark is beginning from light, not the light is beginning from dark. That is their method. They are thinking that from matter, consciousness is coming. Now consciousness is there. When it is covered, degraded, that is unconsciousness. So material means when the consciousness is forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. Material means gradual development of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. And spiritual means full consciousness of Kṛṣṇa. Is it clear? Try to understand this. Darkness is coming from light. Where the light is not visible that is called darkness. This is not the nature of the sun, this covering, cloudy nature. That is not the... The nature of sun is light, but by the energy of the sun another thing is temporary created which is called mist or darkness. This is temporary. This is not permanent nature. Therefore material nature is temporary and spiritual nature is permanent. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to get out of this temporary nature and go to the spiritual nature, permanent nature. Nobody wants also this temporary nature. Nobody likes this cloudy atmosphere.

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the Vedic scripture says, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His person is different. Sac-cid-ānanda. That is not exactly with our personality. This is material. This is temporary personality. Now I am man. Next time I may become dog, Next time become demigod. It is changing. It is not eternal, sat. So God is not like that. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). He does not come here being forced by the material energy. He comes by His spiritual energy. Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā. Find out this. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Therefore, as soon as He's accepted as ordinary man, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ (BG 9.11). He does not know what is the power behind that. Read it.

Pradyumna: Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san, prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya...

Prabhupāda: Prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya.

Pradyumna: Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). "Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all sentient beings, I still appear in every millennium in My original, transcendental form."

Prabhupāda: Read the purport.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we can simply study the beautiful flower, and we can come to God consciousness. How it is made, so beautiful, unless there is brain? And what is that brain? Then you come to God. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svā-bhāvikī-jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Para, the Supreme, has got so nice brain that things are happening as if natural. But no, the brain is acting, brain is acting. But His energy and brain is so nice that He hasn't got to do it personally. As soon as He desires, immediately the energy works. Just like nowadays electronic. So simply by pushing one bud, a button, thousands of business is done immediately. So if it is materially possible, just we have to think how much it is great and possible by spiritual energy. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate, na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. These are the Vedic description. God hasn't got to do anything with His hands. Just like here also. A big man, he has got secretaries, officers. He simply directs, "Do this," everything is done. Similarly, the Supreme Lord, how much energy He has got, and spiritual energy, that as soon as He desires something, immediately it is done. But it is done by employing energy. Not that it has come for nothing. No. This flower, it grows. There is energy. First of all, it was bud. But we cannot see how it is growing. But the act, action is going on. Therefore it is called svā-bhāvikī-jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. There is knowledge, there is brain, there is activity. Everything is there. But it is so quick and subtle, we cannot see. We say it is nat..., it has grown naturally. No. There is brain. How nicely it is done. Whatever color is suitable, it is there. So without color, without that brush, without that brain, without that energy, how it has come? How we can think of? Even if you make an artificial flower, oh, you have to take so many colors, you have to take brush, you have to apply your brain. So it has no brain behind? Simply explaining "nature." What is that nature?

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the highest perfection. Nāpnuvanti, what is that?

Pradyumna: Nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah, mahātmānaḥ. This mahātmānaḥ means devotees of Lord. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ (BG 9.13). This is mahātmā. Mahātmā means... Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Mahātmās, they are under the protection of spiritual energy, and what is the sign? That bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ. Find out this verse, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Just like we are under the material energy. This is called... This is also also daivī-prakṛti, but it is inferior. Parā-prakṛti and aparā-prakṛti. That is described. That real daivī-prakṛti is transcendental. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Just like heat and light. They are different energies of the fire. But heat or light, light is superior than the heat. Both of them coming from the same source. Heat and light. Just like sun. The heat and light. But we are more concerned with the light, sunlight. Similarly, the spiritual world and the material world, both of them are creation or emanation, mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, from God. But the light energy is more perfect. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. What is that verse? You have found out? Read it.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Because... Therefore acintya. How great He is, how great fortunate He is, that you cannot think of, you cannot estimate. That is called acintya. Acintya means I cannot conceive, I cannot estimate. Not only I, any big personality within this universe. Just like Brahmā says, "The others may say that he knows you, but so far I am concerned, I do not know you." That is inconceivable. Brahmā, the greatest personality within this universe, he also admits that "Others may say that he knows what You are, but from my personal experience, I say I do not know anything." We can simply partially see. Parāsya śaktiḥ. Just like we are seeing this material nature, partial exhibition of His potencies. This is one of the potencies, but He has got many potencies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). This material nature is only... This is also inferior potency. Apareyam. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). This material nature is made of earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind intelligence, ego. All these eight elements are separated inferior energy, and how much superior energies He has got. The superior energy is supposed to be the spiritual world, manifestation of the spiritual world. So if in the inferior material energy there are so many wonderful things, just imagine how much greater important wonderful things are there in the spiritual energy, which is called superior.

Hṛdayānanda: With all varieties.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Well, they say, "Nothing is created."

Prabhupāda: No. Created, in this sense, it is manifested.

Karandhara: In that sense. But that still isn't the creation of the energy itself.

Prabhupāda: That... What is that energy? That is spiritual energy. Therefore we divide material energy and spiritual energy. In the spiritual energy everything is manifested and non-manifested. And the spiritual energy, everything is ever-existing. Sanātana, sanātana. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). Sanātana means ever-existing. There is another nature, but that is not this nature. That we admit.

Karandhara: But if this energy was never created, then what is the need for a creator?

Prabhupāda: No. We admit the energy is not created. But energy comes from the energetic. Energy. Just like you may become angry. So that anger energy is there in you, but it is not manifested. So there are certain energies which sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. So this energy, material energy, is of God. This energy is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But there is another energy which is eternal. That is spiritual world. That is our... This is scientific study. (break)

Prajāpati: They will say that such talk may be of use in a religious sphere, but it has no use ultimately in terms of science.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere it is useful because in scientific world also, you follow leader, Sir Isaac Newton, Professor Einstein. Why do you follow? There must be a leader.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mohinīm. They are that aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādhṛta-yusmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They are all impure. Their intelligence is not purified.

Dr. Patel: Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13).

Prabhupāda: Ah. Now... Now here come in the... These people are moghāśā, moghāśā. Their all hopes will be frustrated. But another class, mahātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha (BG 9.13). They take shelter of the spiritual energy. Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ. Because they, the symptom is bhajanty ananya manasaḥ, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." They are not captivated by the so-called jñānīs, yogis, karmis, no. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Again explained. Satataṁ kīrtayanto. That is their only business.

Dr. Patel: Namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā nitya-yuktā upāsate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is being done in every ISKCON center. Satataṁ kīrtayanto, chanting always Kṛṣṇa, namasyantas, offering obeisances. Everything in Kṛṣṇa. This is mahātmā.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Italian Man (1): Material energy.

Prabhupāda: Material energy, yes. And the living entities, they are also energy, spiritual energy. Two energies. Two energies means just like fire. Fire has got two energies, heat and light. Similarly, the whole creation is combination of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore everything is Kṛṣṇa. Is it not? Yes. Just like you take milk. From milk you prepare so many milk preparations. You prepare yogurt, you prepare ghee, you prepare rasagullā, you prepare burfi and so many others. But therefore, actually, all of them are milk. This is... Under different combination only. In the milk, if you put some sour thing, it becomes yogurt. But it is milk. And that sour thing also, which is put into the milk, that is also Kṛṣṇa. (break) Why He is originally person, try to understand. And all these energies are imperson. Just like I am a person, you are a person. But when I... My temperature is imperson. Is it not? I have got temperature, if you put thermometer. That is imperson. So person is the origin, and the impersonal temperature is the energy.

Italian Man (1): I see, yes, yes. And the difference between the impersonalist, I mean, and the personalist is that the impersonalist does not believe...

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our study. So the living energy, the spirit soul, it has got a formation, formation, form. That is also stated in the śāstra, that 1/10,000th part of the top of the hair. Hair, the point, hair. (Yogeśvara translates in French) 1/10,000 part of the... The exact version is keśāgra. Keśa means hair, and agra means the top. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya (CC Madhya 19.140). So that point, you divide into hundred, and take again one part of it, and again divide into hundred. That means you divide the top of the hair into ten thousand parts and then that one part is the magnitude of the soul, spiritual energy. That spiritual energy is within you, within me, within the ant, or within the elephant. So we are living entities. And the body is inferior energy, at the present moment. In the material world the body is covering. Just like you are covered by the coat.

Dr. Sallaz: No, you see, we have tried with some of our members, some of whom are very high in spiritual position, outside of this world. We have tried to look, to reach for the old truth in the very old knowledges of humanity. We have tried this with Indian knowledges. We have tried this with Chinese knowledges. We have tried this with Mexican knowledges. We have tried it everywhere. And we have found that everywhere there is, when you go deep enough, the same truth.

Yogeśvara: He says among their members, many of them are spiritually inclined So they have investigated the ancient scriptures from China and Mexico, all over the world, and they found that if you go down far enough in the philosophy, it is the same truth.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: And that is spiritual energy. That is spiritual energy. When we find out the source of these two energies, that the beginning of spiritual life, or spiritual understanding.

Dr. Sallaz: And, Your Holiness, you know, some of our members know this perfectly, Bhagavad-gītā and all the holy scriptures, ancient holy scriptures, and all the others too, and have studied them for years, trying to look for truth. I am not in this stage and I'm...

Prabhupāda: But truth is there, explained. Truth is there, Kṛṣṇa. From Him, the energies are coming. He is the Absolute Truth. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Kṛṣṇa is the Absolute Truth, satyam. Then Bhāgavata explains, paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. So the Supreme Truth is there within our understanding. But people do not know it. Therefore spiritual revolution means the people should understand what is the Supreme Truth, and then mold their character and activities according to that relationship. Then that is success of human life.

Dr. Sallaz: And I can say to you, we are making a very..., preparing, some of our members, a very important work, which is explanation from the medical point of view of all the genetic code which is in science something absolutely terrific, plenty, thousands of books and so on.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No, now, first of all, let us understand what is matter and what is spirit. Spirit is also energy, and matter is also energy. The matter, when it comes in contact with the spiritual energy, then it grows. Otherwise, it does not grow. Therefore the growing process depends on the spirit. Take this example, my body, your body. The spirit soul when it is in the womb of the mother, then it grows. The abdomen of the mother grows out. But if the spirit soul is not there, then it will not grow. There are many sex intercourse, but if the spirit soul is not there, the sex intercourse will not turn into pregnancy. Do you realize this?

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then how the material body grows? Because the spirit soul is there. Is there any denial?

Robert Gouiran: We call in a way, but...

Prabhupāda: You call in any way, but the fact is this that there is something, when in contact with that something, the matter grows. Otherwise it doesn't grow. That we call spirit soul. You may call it something else. That is a different thing. You can call in a different name, but matter grows not automatically. There must be in touch something with matter. Then it grows. This is a fact.

Robert Gouiran: And it grows by aglutamation (?) of particles.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That is, that is spiritual energy. Two energies. We accept two energies. One, this material energy, which can be cut into pieces, which can be dried up, which can be moistened, which can be burned. But another, spirit, that cannot be done so.

Yogeśvara: If I remember correctly from the little bit of studies that I did in physics, I think it's also the physical definition that material energy is also indestructible, that it's transformable, but not destructible. Is that correct?

Robert Gouiran: Exactly, that the, that the... I was telling the definition of the energy. And if we start from pure energy, absolutely immaterial, pure energy, this pure energy can transform itself in two parts. One is called matter and the other I call anti-matter. And these two parts, they can annihilate together, and then you have back the pure energy. That is definition, our definition, of anti-matter. The anti-matter is what is produced with the matter from pure energy, and what is annihilated by matter to produce again pure energy. You can't, you can't produce our matter, ordinary matter, from pure energy. It's impossible.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. That pure energy is spiritual energy, and from that spiritual energy the material energy comes out. That I have already said: From the soul the matter grows. So that is spiritual energy. The basic energy is spiritual. And because the spiritual energy is the cause and the material energy is the effect, therefore in one sense we can say there is no difference between material energy and spiritual energy. Because spiritual energy is the cause, and material energy effect. Effect may be presented in different forms. Just like cotton is the cause of thread. And the thread is transformed into cloth. But you cannot take cotton for cloth. The cotton is there in the cloth in a different, transformed, transform, but you cannot accept, when you require a cloth, you cannot take cotton. This is a crude example. So the cause of physical elements is spiritual energy, and the spiritual energy is... Both spiritual... Spiritual energy is coming from God. Just like... (aside:) Close. (sound of windows closing) Just like the sunshine is coming from the sun, and in the sunshine there are so many physical transformations. Is it not? In the sunshine... Just like we, ordinary men, we can understand. When there is absence of sunshine... In your western countries or in other..., the leaves of the tree falls down. And again, in the springtime, as soon as there is sufficient sunshine, immediately thousands of trees grows leaves. So there is action of sunshine. So sunshine is coming from the sun. And the sunshine is working in different ways, changing the color of the flowers, of the leaves, and... Or, so far I know, all the planets are, they're rotating on the sunshine heat. Eh? So therefore the sunshine is the original cause of all material, physical things. But wherefrom the sunshine comes? That comes from the spiritual energy. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). In the Brahma-saṁhitā. So that original cause is the spiritual energy. Therefore, because everything is coming from the spiritual energy, you can take everything as spiritual. The same example: like cotton is the original cause. Then it comes thread, then comes...

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Cloth. Then comes coat or shirt or so many things. So cotton is everywhere. Similarly, the spiritual energy is everywhere, but it is transformed by different processes. Therefore the Vedic injunction is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman. Our philosophy is that everything being Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's service. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The property is Kṛṣṇa's. By Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything has come into existence. Therefore everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Therefore everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, for His pleasure. Suppose you create something... You create some building, you create some family, you create some... So many things. You want to enjoy it. Otherwise, why you create? Why you take the responsibility of a family? For your enjoyment. Otherwise who takes care of the family? So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person. He has created us, Kṛṣṇa's family. We also address Kṛṣṇa, "O Father, give us our daily bread." And He's actually giving us bread. Not only us, to all the living entities. So it is a big family, and Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer. So we should all be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Guru-gaurāṅga: (French)

Prabhupāda: That is perfection.

Robert Gouiran: Just to be clear about what is the scientific concept of anti-matter...

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, after catching them from the forest, they kept within the bars, and no eating for at least one week. Then the trainer comes. Only whips. He comes, and open the doors and only: (makes sound) Flosh, flosh, flosh. So already he's hungry, weak, and he's whipped. In this way, he becomes fearful. As soon as the man comes, he becomes fearful. Then he gives him little food. In this way, after all it is animal, he thinks that "This man is my God. He can save me. He can kill me." Then he takes to him. Whatever he says, he takes. Similarly, if you do not give the ingredients for sense enjoyment, the mind will be controlled. That is the beginning. You simply... Don't give... The mind wants, "Now let me go to the restaurant." "No, sir." Beat him with shoes. Instead of going to the restaurant, he beats the mind with shoes. Then mind will not again say, "Go to the restaurant." That is called swami, gosvāmī. One who can control his mind, that is gosvāmī. We giving the title "Gosvāmī" But if you cannot control your mind, then you are unfit. Go means senses, and svāmī means master. One who can control the senses and master, he is gosvāmī. (pause) ...definition of gosvāmī there: vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ manasa-vegam udara-vegam upastha-vegam, etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt (NOI 1). You have to control the impulse of speaking, vāco vegam, the impulse of becoming angry, vāco vegam, krodha-vegam. Then manasa-vegam, force of the mind. Then udara-vegam, the belly. Belly, already, although it is filled up, and as soon as there is some nice... Please fill up again, again. This you have to control, udara-vegam. Udaropastha-vegam, genital. In this way, one who has controlled all these forces, he is able to make disciple all over the world. Otherwise, not this rascal guru. As soon as he saw one very beautiful secretary, "Oh, let me enjoy." And he's guru. So these are cheating. And people want to be cheated. Therefore the cheaters are there. (break) ...fourteen years old. A fourteen years old cannot be induced to marry a twenty-six years girl. That is unnatural. And by medical examination, it is found that he's at least thirty-two years. It is declared in the medical, and still, the rascals following him. That he's cheating by talking false things. So in one sense, the Western boys and young generation, they are actually hankering after some spiritual life. So any Indian, so-called sādhu and guru comes, they go there. But they are cheated unfortunately. So you make your society so strong that you be not cheated, and others may not cheat. Then it will be first-class. And if you make another society of cheaters and cheated, there is no profit. Therefore you have to follow the rules and regulations very strictly and become serious. Then you'll be ideal. People are in need of some spiritual energy. Therefore, as soon as some swamis or guru comes, they flock together to get some food. But these rascals are cheating. So you don't do that.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So it doesn't matter, Kṛṣṇa or Christ. The name is there. And we are recommending according to Vedic scripture that in this age one should simply chant the holy name of God. We are chanting that,

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, they are the name of God. And Harā is the energy of God. So we are chanting Kṛṣṇa, or God, along with His energy. He has got two energies, spiritual energy and material energy. So at the present moment we are under the jurisdiction of material energy. So we are praying to Kṛṣṇa, "Kindly transfer me from the service of material energy to the service of spiritual energy." This is our whole philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa movement means, "O the energy of God and O God, Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in your service." Because our constitutional position is to give service. Some way or other, we have been put in the service of the material energy. So this service can be transferred to the spiritual energy. Then our life is successful. That is our philosophy, bhakti-mārga, bhakti-yoga. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Here we are giving service as Hindu, as Muslim, as Christian, as Jain, as this or that. These are designation. Designation. When we become free of the designation and then serve God, that is called bhakti or devotion. Just like we have manufactured Christian religion, Hindu religion, Muslim religion, this religion, that religion. But when the religion will be without designation—I am neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian, but I am servitor of God—that is pure religion.

Pater Emmanuel: Pure religion, yes, I see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So pure religion means bhakti.

Room Conversation -- August 5, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Unless you find something better than the sex life, you cannot be dhīra. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Madana-Mohana. Madana means Cupid. Cupid is enchanting everyone. Everyone is enchanted by Cupid. Madana-dahan(?). And Kṛṣṇa is Madana-Mohana, He enchants Cupid. And Rādhārāṇī is Madana-mohana-mohinī, (S)he enchants Kṛṣṇa. Madana-Mohana-mohinī.

Brahmānanda: One is Madan-madan?

Prabhupāda: One is Madana, and Kṛṣṇa enchants Madana. Kṛṣṇa is so beautiful that Madana becomes enchanted by Kṛṣṇa. And Rādhārāṇī is so beautiful that Kṛṣṇa becomes enchanted. That is spiritual sex. That is not ordinary. Therefore the attraction of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa is not ordinary thing. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir, this is the spiritual energy, display of spiritual energy. But the sahajiyās, they take as material attractions. As we are attracted, men and women, similarly, they take the Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa attraction... (end)

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Try to understand this, that life is always there, as God is there. So these living entities, part and parcel of God, they are also there. That God has got multi-energies, potencies. Out of that, three potencies have been taken as very important. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). God has multi-energy. Out of that, three energies have been taken as principal: material, spiritual, and marginal. The material energy is this material world. The spiritual world is the spiritual energy. And we living entities, we are also spiritual, but we are called marginal because we may live under the subjugation of material energy or spiritual energy. So the living entities, they are eternal. Their only position is marginal, sometimes manifested here, sometimes manifested there. So in the material world the living entities are already there. You haven't got to create. That is foolishness. It is never created. Simply in the material world it becomes manifest in four ways. Some of them are coming like trees, plants. And some of them are coming from perspiration... not coming, being manifested through fermentation, perception. And some of them are being manifested through eggs. And some of them are being manifested through embryo. The living entity were already there. Their struggle is going on, and they become manifest in the material world in four sources. In the spiritual world there is no such... They are eternally existing. There is no question of manifestation. So this is the science of living entities. What do they know? Therefore I say they are rascals. They do not know anything, simply trying to create. What is the creation? It is already there. But they do not know what is this, and still, they are scientists, they are advanced education. All rascal.

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: No, this is called... What is the definition in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa? Avidyā-karma-samjñānyā tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate. Avidyā...

viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā

kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā

avidyā-karma-samjñānya

tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate

(CC Madhya 6.154)

The three divisions of God's energies. One energy is His spiritual energy; another energy—these living entities, they are also spiritual; another energy—material energy, where there is ignorance and work. That is material energy. In the material energy everyone is ignorant and they have to work. Karma. Karma means working. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya tṛtīya. So here you have to work. Without working, you cannot get your... The things are ready, but you will have to work. So they have increased the working capability. That is civilization. Just like in the prisonhouse you have to work. Eh? So they think this working is civilization. This is avidya. So therefore they have created more work. From early morning, five o'clock, till ten o'clock, simply working. They do not know that "This working is our punishment." But because ignorant, they think that "Working is life." This is called ignorance. He does not know, "This working is my punishment. How to get out of this work?" No. To increase the work more, complicate, that is civilization. This is called avidyā. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya. Our tendency is not to work but get things. Therefore he has asked that question. Because he has to get cloth by working, therefore he asking, "Why God has not created?"

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So from here we understand the material energy and the spiritual energy. So spiritual energy is predominating over the material energy.

Jesuit: Yes, I understand that. It's the spirit of God

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is superior energy, and the material energy, inferior energy. Just like in your body there are some inferior parts and some superior parts. But they are body, parts of the body. This part is superior part, and the rectum is inferior part. But that does not mean it does not form the constitution parts of your body. Otherwise how you become whole? Whole means comprising everything, superior, inferior. But comparatively, there is superior part, inferior part. So the material energy is also God's energy. And spiritual energy is also God's energy, but the spiritual energy is described here as superior energy, and the material energy is described here as inferior energy. But altogether, they are energies. So those who are expert devotees of God, they can utilize inferior energy for the purpose of superior energy. That is the proper utilization. Just like the same brick and stone is required for constructing an ordinary house, and the same brick and stone can be used for constructing a church.

That is superior.

Jesuit: Yes, I understand that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The material is not different. The ordinary house is constructed with the same bricks and stone, and church is also made of that. But why it is superior? Because it is specially, only meant for God's purpose. So anything utilized for God's purpose, it becomes spiritual. This is our philosophy.

Jesuit: Very good. You're kind, talking to me.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). That stage is attained after many many births. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. When one is actually wise, he can see, "Oh, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti, everything is Kṛṣṇa. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is very rare." Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛ... (BG 9.13). At that time he is under the control of spiritual energy. And what is the sign? Bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ. He has no other business than to render service to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. What is that?

Śrutakīrti: It says this tree is dangerous in a high wind.

Devotee: It will break.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And this path is not dangerous? (laughter) Everything is dangerous in the material world. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). In every step there is danger. That is material life. (break) ...they claim equal rights man and woman. Why in the lavatory they are different?

Madhudviṣa: They also want to have the same there.

Prabhupāda: Why there is difference? Ladies and gents. Why not equal right?

Śrutakīrti: In some of our modern universities they are doing that.

Prabhupāda: Advancing.

Devotee: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why you do not say, "This is spiritual energy"? Yes. (break) ...got so many dogs nonsense. And it is solved. Just see. And he has brought dozens of... (break)

Jayatīrtha: ...life will be empty.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually that is a fact. No family, no children, so they must have some. The dog is their children, family. That is the attraction for..., because mostly they do not have family.

Jayatīrtha: They kill the family before they're born.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Jayatīrtha: And then, instead they get dogs.

Prabhupāda: There must be something to repose my love. So they have no family, no Kṛṣṇa. So naturally keep dog. (break) ...must be there, to love. That is my tendency, but if I have nothing, then I will have to catch the dog. What can be done? (break) ...furnish this television. Dog and television and whiskey and cigarette. That's all. (laughter) Is it not? (break) ...in India these things are entering: dog, television. And cigarette, wine, has already entered.

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: She is very expert. (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: ...all night long and they are not getting tired.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Spiritual energy does not get tired. That is spiritual. When we get tired, that is material. Spiritual means one would not feel tired. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Vardhanam means increasing. (break) ...has not come?

Brahmānanda: He left last night for Las Vegas. He will go to Denver. He will see you there.

Prabhupāda: Last night at two o'clock (chuckles) he took film.

Brahmānanda: Yadubara.

Harikeśa: You were translating, he was filming? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...night I was working from half past ten. (laughs)

Brahmānanda: Then?

Prabhupāda: No sleep, that's all. (break) ...sleep, utmost, one hour or one and a half.

Harikeśa: Is it proper to say that your purports are getting better every day?

Prabhupāda: I do not know that. (laughs) You think so?

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Indian man (2): And also remain in different form.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. Just like this is earth. Now you prepare hundreds or thousands of earthen pots and dolls. When it is destroyed, again it is earth. So when it is manifested, it is earth. When it is not manifested, it is earth. So from the spiritual energy of Kṛṣṇa everything becomes manifested, and therefore originally it is spiritual. Kṛṣṇa said, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir..., bhinnā me prakṛtiḥ: (BG 7.4) "It is My prakṛti, energy." So how Kṛṣṇa's energy can be material? Because we forget Kṛṣṇa, therefore it appears material. (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) (break) ...Mahāprabhu, as soon as He entered the Jagannātha temple He immediately fainted. Did He see the wooden Jagannātha? It is a question of seeing and prepare the eyes to see.

Vāsughoṣa: Once I went to one Gauḍīya Matha in South India, and I showed them a picture of our Deities in Hyderabad. They said, "This Kṛṣṇa is white." So later on I told that story to Acyutānanda Swami, and he said, "Do you know what I tell those people? I say, 'No, Kṛṣṇa is not white. You just can't see Kṛṣṇa.' " So like that, sometimes we are criticized by them for Kṛṣṇa in the Deity being white. (break)

Hari-śauri: ...Kṛṣṇa's energy is all-spiritual, then why in Bhagavad-gītā does Kṛṣṇa make a distinction—"My separated material energy"? Why does He say, "separated"?

Prabhupāda: Separated... Just like I am talking and this will be reproduced as it is, although it is separated.

Hari-śauri: So He's not personally present there.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Saurabha: Yes. And then we still have area for gurukula also. Another hundred rooms.

Dr. Patel: Most people (indistinct) (break)

Prabhupāda: Yesterday... Last night, I explained at the Birla house that you have to change only your care of. Now we are care of under material energy, and you have to transfer your under care of spiritual energy. They appreciated.

Dr. Patel: They are under the care of great māyā, mah-māyā.

Prabhupāda: Everyone...

Dr. Patel: ...is sitting in the building, of all the Birlas.

Prabhupāda: Not Birlas, everyone. (laughing)

Dr. Patel: (also laughing) I don't know, sir. But I... I am a rebellion against them. In 1958, sir, I told you, the Congress, when I was a member of Congress, that I can't be the member of such an institution which just simply lies, telling white lies.

Prabhupāda: No, no. You may say about congressman, and this one, Communist man; everyone is under...

Dr. Patel: Is a rascal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our verdict. Mūḍha. We understand from Bhagavad-gītā...

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Why Kṛṣṇa is within the atom? That is answered or not? Wherever there is the living entity, Kṛṣṇa is there as friend. Su-parna, sayujā. So, from the śāstra it is understood, as many material atoms are there, so many spiritual atoms are there. Now you can imagine how many living entities are there. (sic:) Physists, they have not been able to find out the spiritual atom. Therefore they are puzzled, and their scientific research is incomplete. But the Bhagavad-gītā gives them information, "You rascal, this is inferior. These material atoms are inferior." Apareyam. They'll not take it. Apareyam itas tu: "Besides this, there is another energy, spiritual energy." "What is that spiritual energy? We do find." "You don't find? Why don't you see jīva-bhūta, these living entities?" But they are rascals. They will not see. They cannot understand what is this living entity, and Kṛṣṇa is saying, "Here is another atom. Apareyam itas tu me viddhi prakṛtiṁ parā." But the rascal will not take it. This is their rascaldom. Kṛṣṇa is giving them information, and still, they'll not take it. This is their dog obstinacy. Solution is there. They won't have to make very difficult research work. Here is information. But they'll not take it. The atoms which you are studying, that is all right. That is material, apara, inferior. But there is another atom. And if you say, "What is that atom? We do not find," "Don't you find this living entity?" And still, they are... They say the problems are solved. Just see how foolish they are. He's seeing the living entity, and Kṛṣṇa is pointing out: "Here is the superior atom," and still they say, "We do not know." What to do with them? Eh? They cannot find out by their own research, and the information is there by Kṛṣṇa, and still they'll not take it. So, what is to do with them?

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not the question of... First of all, decide there are two kinds of energies working.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Material energy and spiritual energy. So, so far material energy, they have come to the point of atom, and they are searching out. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, this material atom is all right. But this is apara. This is inferior. There is another superior energy, atom." What is that? "This jīva-bhūta." So why don't you not see it? How rascal they are. Jīva-bhūta is there. He is seeing jīva bhuta, living... So Kṛṣṇa is giving information, "Here is the superior atom." Why don't do they not see to it?

Acyutānanda: Because they are so sinful, they cannot see.

Prabhupāda: Yeah. That is the...

Acyutānanda: Like Duryodhana. Even people criticize Kṛṣṇa, "Why He could not convince Duryodhana to be peaceful?" Because there was nothing... He was so sinful that he had used up all his pious...

Prabhupāda: So that is the Duryodhana party.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Acchā.

Acyutānanda: The scientists are all sinful.

Room Conversation With Radha-Damodara Sankirtana Party -- March 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: But for us there is nothing material. We have no such vision as "material" and "spiritual." Material means when we forget Kṛṣṇa's right. That is material. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor; He is the enjoyer. So, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything Kṛṣṇa's. So when we forget Kṛṣṇa's right on everything, that is material. Otherwise there is nothing material; everything spiritual. Everything is generated by Kṛṣṇa's energies, and there are two energies, material energy and spiritual energy. So in the material energy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is less or nil. And in spiritual energy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is prominent and very acute. I think I give this example somewhere. Just like this nail, and just little below, there is skin. Both of them are my body, but in the skin there is sensation; in the nail there is no sensation. But both of them are coming from the same source, the body. Similarly, everything is Kṛṣṇa's. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. Everything is Bhagavān but appears like different to the different vision. Therefore we take everything.... kṛṣṇa-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Everything..., in everything there is Kṛṣṇa's relationship. So there is no question of giving it up. Why shall I give it up? This is Kṛṣṇa's property. Why shall I give it up, prāpañcikatayā buddhyā, by mistaking it as material? Kṛṣṇa-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. So these Māyāvādīs, they say the brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This material world is false, and Brahman is reality." And we don't say that. Everything is reality because it comes from reality. When it is not used for Kṛṣṇa, that is unreality. It is not properly being used. Otherwise there is no such thing as unreality, because it is coming from reality. So why shall I give it up, tyāga? Neither tyāga, neither bhoga. Everything utilize for Kṛṣṇa. This is our way. Any question on this regard? I saw your wife also. She is here.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Rāmeśvara: And then after that, they will...

Prabhupāda: This movement will go for ten thousand years without any impediment.

Rāmeśvara: So that means increasing, because it's the nature of the spiritual energy.

Prabhupāda: It increases; you should take this opportunity. You work sincerely; it will increase, it will increase.

Rāmeśvara: Ten thousand years, there is a good opportunity to...

Prabhupāda: Many fallen souls will be delivered back to home, back to Godhead.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very encouraging.

Rāmeśvara: You once said that Christianity will die out. We will be the only religion left.

Prabhupāda: I do not remember that.

Rāmeśvara: Someone told me like that.

Prabhupāda: Christianity's already dead. We are purchasing the churches.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means dead.

Hari-śauri: And their priests are coming to join us as well.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They are associates. They are associating with Lord as calf, as cow. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). Nija-rūpa. (Guest speaks in Bengali, Prabhupāda English) In Vṛndāvana, the trees, the land, the water—everyone, ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ. That is expansion of Kṛṣṇa's spiritual energy. Cit-śakti. There are three energies: spiritual, material, and marginal. So Vṛndāvana affairs means expansion of Kṛṣṇa's spiritual energy. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Sac-cid-ānanda. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Rasa, mellow. Everyone is trying to relish some mellow. Here in this material world we get family to taste some mellows. One kind of mellow is wife, one kind of mellow are children, one kind of mellow is the servants, one kind of mellow is the friends, one kind of mellow is the properties. They are all mellows, rasa. Unless there is some taste, why one should be hankering after all these things? Why one is hankering after some woman or some man or some friends or for children? One who has got no children, he's hankering after some child. He's expecting, "When I shall get a child?" The rasa. There is husband-wife rasa, but there is no rasa of the child. Therefore they are praying, "When we shall get a child?" So there is another rasa. So raso vai saḥ. He is the reservoir of rasas. So if we derive all the rasas from the Supreme, because He is the reservoir of rasas.

Mahāṁśa: Akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Na vinaśyati. The material world will be finished and that will remain.

Vāsughoṣa: "Yet there is another nature which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is."

Prabhupāda: That is sanātana.

Vāsughoṣa: "Kṛṣṇa's superior spiritual energy is transcendental and eternal. It is beyond all the changes of material nature, which is manifest and annihilated during the days and nights of Brahmā. Kṛṣṇa's superior energy is completely opposite in quality to material nature. Superior and inferior nature are explained in the Seventh Chapter." And the next verse?

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. There is an eternal world, sanātana. That is never annihilated. So when you go to that sanātana-dhāma, God is there, sanātana, and there you live eternally and go on rendering service to God. That is (indistinct). There is no question of oneness. The variety is there, but there the varieties are eternal, here the varieties are temporary. That is difference. Everything is there. So thank you very much.

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Naśyatsu na vinaśyati. When everything of this material will be annihilated, that will exist. There is another world. Read it.

Hari-śauri: "Yet there is another nature, which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is."

Prabhupāda: Purport?

Hari-śauri: Purport: "Kṛṣṇa's superior spiritual energy is transcendental and eternal. It is beyond all the changes of material nature, which is manifest and annihilated during the days and nights of Brahmā. Kṛṣṇa's superior energy is completely opposite in quality to material nature. Superior and inferior nature are explained in the Seventh Chapter."

Prabhupāda: There are two natures. One is material nature; one is spiritual nature. The material nature, earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence, ego, and beyond that apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. This is inferior nature. Beyond this, there is a superior nature. And that superior means, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). That is the living entity. This big universe, this is material. But the living entities, because they are using this material for their so-called advancement, comforts... And because they have the power to utilize these material matters for their own purpose, they are superior. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. And because this nature is being utilized, one is being utilized and one is utilizer. The utilizer is the superior, and the things utilized, they are inferior, but both of them are nature, God's nature. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He'll not say that is has no value. You must give the reason why it has no value.

Jagadīśa: It has no value because there is no permanent connection between the spirit soul and the material energy. There are two kinds of energy: material energy and spiritual energy. We have experience of both. The material energy is described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: You can describe like this. Just like if a man is diseased, so the physician imposes upon him some restriction, do and do not. So if by mistake we give up the do not's, then it is useless. He should observe the do not's. Then he'll be cured. And if he does not observe the do not's—whatever he likes, he does—that means his disease is increasing. Therefore it is useless. The real aim of life is how to get out of the clutches of māyā which is forcing me to accept the cycle of birth and death. That is my disease. Therefore tapasya. Tapasya means restricted life, not unrestricted life. So if we do not follow the restricted life, that means I shall continue my disease or increase my disease. The modern civilization, we are teaching how to enjoy this material world to the fullest extent, bhogaiśvarya, sense gratification and for sense gratification, material opulence. But he does not know that he is killing himself. He is aggravating the disease. He has to accept another body. But that he does not know, that he'll have to take birth and die, again the same business. That he does not know. Therefore this civilization is misguided. Yesterday we were reading, tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam (SB 5.5.1). We have to purify our existence. So this aim is missing—how to purify it. Sattva, I am eternal. Now I am existing in a condition, birth and death. That they do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). He does not know his interest. He's thinking, "This is life. Let me enjoy and there is no life after death, and even there is, who cares for it?" This is going on.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Pradyumna:

yaṁ sannyāsam iti prāhur

yogaṁ taṁ viddhi pāṇḍava

na hy asannyasta-saṅkalpo

yogī bhavati kaścana

(BG 6.2)

Translation: "What is called renunciation is the same as yoga, or linking oneself with the Supreme, for no one can become a yogi unless he renounces the desire for sense gratification." Purport: "Real sannyāsa-yoga, or bhakti, means that one should know his constitutional position as the living entity and act accordingly. The living entity has no separate, independent identity. He is the marginal energy of the Supreme. When he is entrapped by material energy, he is conditioned. And when he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, or aware of the spiritual energy, then he is in his real and natural state of life. Therefore, when one is in complete knowledge, one ceases all material sense gratification or renounces all kinds of sense gratificatory activities. This is practiced by the yogis who restrain the senses from material attachment, but a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has no opportunity to engage his senses in anything which is not for the purpose of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is simultaneously a sannyāsī and a yogi.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. He'll worship. Jaya Nitāi-Gaura.

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda

śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

(I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.)

hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare

hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare

(My dear Lord, and the spiritual energy of the Lord, kindly engage me in Your service. I am now embarrassed with this material service. Please engage me in Your service.)

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda:

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda

śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

(I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.)

hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare

hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare

(My dear Lord, and the spiritual energy of the Lord, kindly engage me in Your service. I am now embarrassed with this material service. Please engage me in Your service.)

This is from Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Then Brahma-saṁhitā.

rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.39)

Then again from Brahma-saṁhitā, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu (Bs. 5.38). These mantras should be recited so that I can hear, you can hear, occasionally. And kīrtana must go on. And physically, massage. Sometimes that brahmi oil massage on the head. (break) Translating, whatever I have done in this state, is it going right?