Hayagrīva: He speaks of the Indian religion, which demands the greatest sacrifices and which has yet remained so long in practice in a nation that embraces so many millions of persons cannot be arbitrarily invented superstition but must have its foundation in the nature of man. And he says that the religion has endured for more than four thousand years, despite the fact that the Hindu nation has been broken up into so many parts. But he sees the religion basically as a religion of the denial of will. But does the religion have its foundation in the nature of man?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the denial, both the... There are two kinds of sects: this Māyāvādī and the Vaiṣṇava. So both of them know that this material world is flickering, and sometimes they say it is false, unreal. So there is another life; that is spiritual world. So the Māyāvādī philosopher, their spiritual life means to merge into the Brahman effulgence, and the Vaiṣṇava philosopher to go back to Goloka Vṛndāvana, Vaikuṇṭha, where God is situated, and become His associate person. So both the ideas, spiritual ideas, that is attained after death. What does he say that is good about Hindus? He says that denial...
Hayagrīva: He sees it basically as a denial of the will.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but denial of the will for material happiness. So we will not deny willing, that willing for spiritual happiness. That is required. As you deny something, you must accept something; otherwise... You cannot remain in the neutral position. That is not possible. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nirvatanta. When you get a better position, then you give up this willing for lower position.
Hayagrīva: The... He speaks of the sannyāsī, who lives without a dwelling and entirely without property, who is advised not to lay down often under the same tree least he should acquire a preference or inclination for it above other trees. The Christian mystic and the teacher of the Vedānta philosophy agree in this respect also, that they both regard all outward works and religious exercises as superfluous for him who has attained to perfection. Isn't this the viewpoint of the Māyāvādī, and doesn't Kṛṣṇa recommend the lighting of the sacrificial fire even after one has attained perfection?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā na tyājam. Because if he gives up this ritualistic ceremony, then there is chance of falling down. So even though he is liberated, to keep his position secure he should continue these three things: sacrifice, charity, and austerity.
Hayagrīva: He speaks of sleep. He said, "The need for sleep is directly proportionate to the intensity of the brain life, thus the clearness of the consciousness. Those animals whose brain life is weak and dull sleep little and lightly, for example reptiles and fishes. Animals of considerable intelligence sleep deeply and long. Men also require more sleep the more developed both as regards quantity and quality, and the more active their brain is. The more completely awake a man is, the clearer and more lively his consciousness, the greater for him is the necessity of sleep, thus the deeper and longer he sleeps."
Prabhupāda: Those who are ignorant and materially covered, they sleep more. Those who are spiritually enlightened, they sleep less. Sleep is the necessity of the body, not of the soul. So those who are advanced in the platform of spiritual identity, they do not require sleeping, as we find from the life of Rūpa Gosvāmī. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **: they conquered over sleeping, eating, mating. That is spiritual life. To sleep is waste of time, so those who are actually interested in spiritual life, they adjust life in such a way that almost they sleep nil.
Hayagrīva: Arjuna was praised as Gudakesa?
Prabhupāda: Guḍākeśa, who has conquered over sleeping.
Hayagrīva: It appears that Schopenhauer recommends about eight hours of sleep a night, and Kṛṣṇa says not too much or too little. But what is recommended in terms of sleep, just concretely?
Prabhupāda: Sleep should be avoided, but that is not possible. Therefore it should be adjusted to the minimum. Just like Gosvāmīs, they are sleeping not less, not more than two hours. Even we hear about some karmī, just like Napoleon, he was also not sleeping. He was taking rest on the back of the horse. I do not know whether it is so.
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But I know about Gandhi. He was sleeping when he is parking his car, because he was so busy.
Hayagrīva: (laughing) He gives some examples of men, of philosophers who slept a great deal. Maybe because they speculated so hard they had to sleep more.
Prabhupāda: No. Sleeping too much is bad in all circumstances. So, stop the machine. Stop this machine. Tomorrow is good. (break)