Skyscraper (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"skyscraper" |"skyscrapers"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I mean, what is the use of issuing another piece of paper against this paper? Let us make a skyscraper temple; then they can think what will be the comparison between this...

Bhavānanda: On every level. Even the people this invitation was issued to. But they come, and when they come on Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura's appearance day, they all come down the road to here to visit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really.

Bhavānanda: Even he gives off so much energy inviting this one and that one, they all come. They all want to come down the road. They at least come down for darśana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They do?

Bhavānanda: Yes, they have to. They've all been here. They all know it. They come with different personalities, different friends... In Krishnanagar, we are like the cinema in terms of entertainment. As soon as any man, any official, government official, his friends come from Calcutta, immediately they get in one of the government jeeps and they drive out here and come to see the ISKCON Maṭha, Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir. Immediately. So many men, they come all the time with their friends from Calcutta. Same thing in Navadvīpa. They come for an evening's...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 11, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Tell them that if you take to Hare Kṛṣṇa, then these things will not happen. Tell them.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. In Caracas, where you visited, less then ten years ago there was a big earthquake and many big skyscrapers fell into the earth, completely disappeared.

Prabhupāda: Oh?

Hṛdayānanda: The whole skyscraper just fell into the earth. That was in Caracas. They said that after that people became more pious. During the earthquake they were screaming to God, "Have mercy, have mercy."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Another country, Nicaragua, just a few years ago there was a big earthquake, and the capital city was entirely destroyed. It was all gone, the entire capital.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have experience of an earthquake, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was in one in Mexico. It was at night. When the earthquake happened I was completely thrown right out of my bed.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The child can understand, "Now, two finger and two finger, it becomes four finger." In this way we have to learn it. Therefore there are so many books. It is for the human being to learn. But if we simply remain civilized like cats and dog, then what is your advancement of civilization? There is no advancement. If you sit on this chair, and the others, they are sitting on the floor, sitting purpose is served. But if you say, "Sitting on the chair is civilized, and that is uncivilized," that is mental concoction. You have to serve your purpose. If by sitting on the floor you can understand what you are, that is civilization. And without understanding yourself, if you waste your time for manufacturing a chair, that is cats' and dogs' civilization. So that is going on. They are busy in manufacturing chairs, how to sit comfortably, without any knowledge that what is the value of life and what is life. This is going on. They are thinking that constructing big, big skyscraper building and motorcars and high roads and so many, so many, unnecessary things, that is advancement of civilization. No. Advancement of civilization is there when you know what you are. That is advancement of.... You can.... There is no prohibition. The materialistic way of civilization, constructing big, big house, there is no.... You don't stop it, but if you forget yourself—you do not know what you are—then it is wasting time because the human life is specially meant for understanding "What I am?" The cats and dogs, they cannot do. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to enlighten people actually what he is, what is the aim of life and how his life will be successful, how at the present moment he is living, how he is spoiling his valuable life. These are the subject matter dealt in these books.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So why they create this botanical garden? If they are satisfied with the happiness of a dog, then why they spend so much money for this botanical garden? Hm? Let them be satisfied like dog, lie down on the street. Why this sense of botanical garden? (break) ...tendency for improving, artificially they are curbing down. Revolution there is. Artificially they say, "No. This is satisfied." Why they are making big, big skyscraper building? Let them remain like dog.

Guru-kṛpā: (break) ...same for all their purposes, but because they have superior intelligence, they could make a nice facility to enjoy.

Prabhupāda: Superior? That means you have got, you, a separate utility for superior consciousness. So we have to search out what is the end of the superior consciousness.

Guru-kṛpā: I think that's mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18).

Prabhupāda: Ah, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovidaḥ. That is intelligence. (break) ...intelligence. Why should you stop in one point? Make further progress.

Guru-kṛpā: (break) ...the jñānī, to try to seek out, is better than to be a karmī.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This is the land you wanted to purchase?

Devotee (1): Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, it is still unsold?

Devotee (1): No one can do anything with it now.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Devotee (1): This neighborhood here, they will not allow any more than three stories to be built, no high rise.

Prabhupāda: Oh. There cannot be any skyscraper building, so no capitalist will purchase.

Devotee (1): And no developer will use it just to make three-story flats because the land is too expensive. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: They don't want natural things.

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Chanting produce plain living, high thinking. The modern leaders, they don't want.

Hari-śauri: We're a threat to the society.

Prabhupāda: Their policy is "High living and poor thinking." They live in skyscraper but don't care for where they are going to next life, as a cat and dog. Never mind. Now live in skyscraper. Poor thinking. High living, poor thinking (laughter). No, that "Now I am living in the skyscraper building on the twenty-fifth story, and next life I'm going to be cockroaches here." (everyone laughs) They don't know that. He doesn't inquire, "Wherefrom the cockroaches coming?" (everyone laughs) He has got attachment for this twenty-fourth story, so, but he's working so that he'll become a cockroach. So Kṛṣṇa has given chance, "All right. You live in the twenty-fourth story as cockroach." And then you'll be again killed by some.... What is called?

Devotee (5): Tenants. Exterminator?

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Why? That is the question. Why some people have? That means some people intelligent, some people rascals. That's all. This is wrong.

Devotee (1): The question is, why some people are feeling a necessity for God? That is the question they ask.

Prabhupāda: That is the difference between rascal and intelligent. Just like in Hawaii Island, when the rascals were living, they did not feel the necessity of skyscraper. When intelligent Americans came, they feel the necessity. That is the difference. (everyone laughs) Is that all right?

Devotee (1): Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Necessity is the mother of invention. That is an English proverb. Is it not? So unless you feel necessity, you are rascal.

Hari-śauri: Well, taking that the other way...

Prabhupāda: Dull matter. Dull matter. It has no necessity. It is dull matter. And as soon as you have got life, there is necessity. Without feeling necessity means dullness. Just like these Hawaiians, very nice. They did not think the necessity of the skyscraper, motorcar.... But when it was inhabited by the Americans, (indistinct) That is the difference between advanced and not advanced.

Morning Walk -- May 31, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: They will try to make adjustments with material nature, everything will be failure. ...hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā. They'll never be able to adjust. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. That's all. (break) ...adjustment to lie down in the skyscraper, and now they are coming. Why they have come to the ground? Punaḥ punaś carvita. Sometimes on the ground, sometimes the sky. (break) They reject the stool and urine and then accept it. They do like that. (laughing) (break) It is rejected. It cannot be utilized. In India still the system is they use metal; when it is broken you can sell it. They take half price and supply new.... They use metal pots, and the (inaudible) is that when it is broken and old we can exchange with new plates. And this kind of bowls you have to throw away. You cannot utilize.

Devotee (3): So they break very easily?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (3): These plates, the silverware and things that people use?

Prabhupāda: No, whatever (unclear). Silver is not half price. Silver, little less than new one. They purchase one rupee less. It was 200 rupees new, and the purchaser will take 190 (unclear) ...India they use (unclear). Bell metal, copper...

Hari-śauri: Aluminium is becoming very popular now, aren't they?

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll not stay. This reality will not stay.

Hari-śauri: It's all a dreamlike existence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, simply a long duration dream. Do you think this skyscraper building will stay? Nothing will stay. It may stay for five hundred years or five thousand years. But is it not permanent. Anything you take—the trees, this land, nothing; even this ocean. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). It appears again and again disappears, that's all. Everything. The material world means that. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. Vyaktāvyaktam. Sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. This town is manifested, and one big wave of sea, it will be nonmanifested, immediately.

Yadubara: So that subtle reality is existing side by side with this gross reality.

Prabhupāda: Reality is in the spiritual world. This is imitation reality. Real reality is in the spiritual world.

Hari-śauri: We have to go left here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (pause) The material universes are like a produce of Mahā-Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: A big dream, that's all. Material existence means a big dream. How long you'll dream? So long you are in this body. And as long as the body is finished, your dream is finished. Your nation, your society, your friends, your money, your bank, everything finished. Is it not a dream? Then dream another—you become cats and dogs or demigods. You dream in a different way. You are now dreaming as American; next life you may dream something else.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then what is the end? The end is sex.

Rāmeśvara: The end is sex. Just like they have these big, big skyscrapers for so many businesses...

Prabhupāda: This big, big philosopher Freud, and they're only sex.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but they're.... Suppose Sartre, just like you were speaking of Sartre the other day. His end is not apparently sex life.

Prabhupāda: What is that śāstra?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Sartre, Sartre. You were speaking on...

Prabhupāda: No, not that all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They just, I found that they don't agree when you say that. They say "I am doing so many things." Just like.... (break)

Rāmeśvara: In your quarters, Śrīla Prabhupāda, or in the temple room?

Prabhupāda: Anywhere is nice.(?)

Bharadvāja: Are there any other Deities besides Kāliya-Kṛṣṇa you want us to make for Fiji?

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sitting and painting. The boy who's going out every day, trying to think of how to get the books out, he won't be.... (conversation in background) You have come to the hellish planets, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to deliver us. That's all there is. It's amazing enough you have made such a gigantic movement, but the fact that you have made it with such mlecchas as us is what is most astounding. It's like building a skyscraper with swabs and straw. Building a big skyscraper with straw and mud.

Rāmeśvara: In the Fifth Canto, you've quoted from Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura that the most sacred place in the whole universe is Śrī Māyāpur-dhāma.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: In all the universe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In each universe there is a Vṛndāvana and a Māyāpur. That means in each universe there's a planet earth like this planet?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many planets. Each universe full of planets. Koṭiṣu vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam. There are millions of universes, and in each universe there are millions of planets. Koṭiṣu vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam. (end)

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Another imagination. These are actual facts.(?)

Hari-śauri: They just made up different compositions of bones and then drew some outlines on them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are imagination.

Hari-śauri: But you said in Hawaii though that there are some animals that are as big as skyscrapers?

Prabhupāda: Yes, these are birds. It is far from this earth though. They travel from one planet to another.

Rāmeśvara: So these bones that they have found of these gigantic animals, they were all living underneath the water.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Not on the land.

Prabhupāda: Maybe. But the list is there: jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. There are 900,000 different forms, and how many we have seen? There is information in the śāstra. Paśavas triṁśal-lakṣāṇi. Three million different types of animals.

Hari-śauri: We've seen a few hundred at most.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (laughs) That is also doubtful.

Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa incarnates into every species of life. He can appear in any form.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. I think of these things. No, there is analogy, just like when you fly in the sky, you take sufficient petrol in the wings, sufficient, so many thousands of gallons. And if there is no petrol, then you'll fall down. So I theorize these things, (laughs) that these planets are floating in the air on account of petrol. If you finish the petrol stock, then we drop. Analogy. Indirectly, my desire is that "Why you are wasting your time in this way? Your life is short here. Then utilize it for self-realization. What is the use of this civilization, civilization that for artificial necessities of life you waste your whole duration of life and next life you become a cat or dog? Suppose you are successful in this life manufacturing these big, big skyscrapers. Next life, if you become a cockroach in the same house, toilet room.... There is possibility." Kṛṣṇa..., tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body, and there is no guarantee that you'll have to change in this type of body. Any body. The cockroach is also a body. Therefore they don't believe in the next life.

Rāmeśvara: You said they have developed so many different weapons, so they must use them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They will not waste their time making nuclear bombs and so on without using them.

Prabhupāda: That means it is ordained by God that "You have manufactured this, and use it for your destruction." That is nature's way. Film companies, these are?

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). America will be the best; people will follow. They are already following-skyscraper building, that's all. Any nation in the world, they are all aspiring to have skyscraper buildings. India has done? In Bombay?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Full of skyscraper buildings. Now they are thinking this is opulence, skyscraper building. When you are giving it up, no more skyscraper building, the others are imitating. Just like in this quarter you cannot construct skyscraper building. They don't want it. Now others are imitating: "Let us have skyscraper building like America." (japa)

Rāmeśvara: This building is only two stories, even though it has three windows.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why two story? There is ground floor, first floor, second floor, third floor.

Rāmeśvara: One of the floors has two windows, top and bottom. But it's just one floor. Someone went inside and looked.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, that is not floor. There is no ceiling.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: It is more than hell. There is no life. I have been in Tata steel iron factory. I saw it is a hell. One melting pot just like a skyscraper building. You have seen?

Hari-śauri: I used to work on them, same thing. I was working where they pour the metal into ingots, into casings, and then when it solidifies they take a chunk of iron out, it's still white hot, and then they put it in ovens. And then after a while, when they need them, they take them out with big cranes and they put them on a series of rollers, and then it goes through a mill, what they call a mill. It's like a big mangling machine, and it crushes the steel ingot into plates, big plates. Then it goes along and it's cut and sent out. It cools down on big banks and it's sent out. So my job was, I was doing maintenance fitting on all those machines. On the rollers and on the cranes and on the big mills, like that. It was terrible. We used to work from two o'clock in the afternoon until ten o'clock at night, one shift, then from ten until six, and then from six until two.

Prabhupāda: Eight hours. Without any recreation?

Hari-śauri: Well, one break, for lunch. It was just indescribable. There's so much heat and fumes, and always covered in oil and grease, crawling around on your hands and knees to fix some machine.

Jagadīśa: All for the advantage of some wealthy man.

Prabhupāda: And after this hard labor, his only recreation is wine. Did you drink?

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: There is no date? Hmm?

Devotee (1): Maybe not in that one article. Other articles, there are dates.

Prabhupāda: Is this Cleveland?

Devotee (1): Yes. There are many skyscrapers, tall buildings, there are many tall buildings, and people were looking out at the Ratha-yātrā cart and at Lord Jagannātha.

Prabhupāda: Here, the daytime is...

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: We have found, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the buses are going to many of these cities, they have never seen our devotees, because when we go, we are dressed like they are for distributing the books. So now the boys are going again in the streets with a kīrtana party once a week downtown, and they have all done front-page newspaper articles, because although they have been reading the books, they have never seen the devotees in many years. I think festivals like this...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: ...in all these cities would be very advantageous, and all the book distribution...

Prabhupāda: And therefore I said that introduce Ratha-yātrā every city. At least wherever we have got our centers. Bring Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa. They have received some testimonial from Indian...

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes, Indian reviews?

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Prabhavanty, materially, materially. Just like when you go to a modern city and say, "Oh, how developed," prabhavanty. But what kind of prabhavanty? That is next word, jagato 'hitāḥ, to destroy this world. So their prabhavanty in the opposite direction. That is not prabhavanty actually. Prabhavanty in the material sense, but what is the purpose, what is the end? Jagato 'hitāḥ. There are two kinds of progress, to hell, to heaven.

Hari-śauri: Fifty years ago they were thinking it was progress to build big skyscrapers; now it's so hellish in the cities, everybody is moving out.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Actually, when there are so many skyscraper buildings, it is hell. The natural air is obstructed. In Bombay you'll see. If you are in the top floor you have got little facility; in the lower floor it is hell. If there are several skyscraper building, in the first floor, second floor, it is simply hell. No air. Simply you have to run on this electric fan. You cannot see the sky. Therefore it is meant skyscraper? What is scraper? What is the meaning?

Hari-śauri: It touches, touching the sky.

Prabhupāda: So you have touched the sky in such a way I cannot see even. (laughs) This is the result. You demon, you have captured the sky, so I have no opportunity to see even. Always electric light. Now we see the sky, the sun, how nice it is. This is life. Green, down and up, clear sky, sun, this is life. We get rejuvenation in this atmosphere. What is this nonsense, all skyscraper building, no air, no light? Jagato 'hitāḥ. The mind becomes crippled, the health becomes deteriorated, children cannot see even the sky, everything is spoiled.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says it is already fixed up. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. This pleasure is the same, but according to the body... The uncivilized man in the jungle, they are having the same thing. And they are taking civilization that "Instead of living in that hut made of leaves, we are living in skyscraper building. This is advancement." But Vedic civilization says, "No. This is not advancement. The advancement is self-realization, how much you have realized yourself." Not that from the hutment you have come to skyscraper building, therefore it is advancement. Sometimes they misunderstand. In a high-court a judge is sitting soberly, doing nothing, and he is getting the highest salary. And another man in the same court, he's working day and hard rubber-stamping and he is getting not even one tenth of the salary. He's thinking, "I am so busy and working so hard. I am not getting any good salary. And this man is sitting only on the bench and he's getting so fat salary." So therefore this is question like that. The Vedic civilization is for self-realization. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). Kovido means very learned. He'll simply try for that thing which was not received, which was not achieved in other life. That means self-realization. Just like we are sometimes charged, "escape." What is the charge?

Devotee: We are escaping from reality.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is explained. They do not know what is progress. The Vedic civilization is not interested in this so-called false progress. Just like from hut to skyscraper. They think this is progress. But the Vedic civilization thinks how much he is advanced in self-realization. Either he is in cottage or in skyscraper. But if he wastes his time to turn the huts into skyscrapers, then the whole life is finished. And next time he is going to be a dog. He does not know. That's all.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda? They want to know how this can be counteracted, this idea?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Don't get...

Hari-śauri: (whispering) this is going to be transcribed.

Prabhupāda: Make everything clear.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that is very clear. Would you like to hear the next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, it is clear or now?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: A learned brāhmaṇa, is not expected to manufacture a watch, but he's more honored than one who is actually... This modern age is: if he manufactures watch he is honored. Not the learned brāhmaṇa. That is Kali-yuga. That is Kali-yuga. They do not know whom to honor. That is the Kali-yuga going on. You kill so many souls, and if you have a great big skyscraper building, then you are successful. And those who constructed the skyscraper, they are going to become dog, never mind, the skyscraper building is there. That's all. That is success. This is modern civilization. After they constructed the skyscraper building all the mistris are going to hell, that doesn't matter. The building is there. Is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is civilization. Long ago in 1917 perhaps, in our college, we saw one magazine.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: St. Xavier's College?

Prabhupāda: No, Scottish.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, Scottish.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Scottish Churches College. So one American, Scientific American, we have contribute(?). So there the picture was that one skyscraper building is constructed and so many men are working, carrying the beams and so on. So there was—I remember still—that all, some material construction, so many living entities they are being sacrificed(?). I do not know how the Scientific American gave this picture, I still remember. Actually that is a fact. This human being would have been released from this materialistic way of life, back to home, back to... No, instead of giving them the chance, they are engaged in constructing huge skyscraper building. They're spoiled. So it is little difficult to understand our philosophy. And Prahlāda Mahārāja said, tat-prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param. Tat-prayāso na kartavyaḥ. This kind of activity should stop. It is simply wasting the valuable life. But they do not know how they're wasting. They're in such an ignorance. They are thinking that these people, crazy people, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, are wasting time, they're thinking like that. They do not know what is the value of life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's a fact that the material opulence is actually a hindrance.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām, vyavasāyātmikā buddhi... What is that? Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Their life will be spoiled. And when they are tired, give them sex, and wine, and meat, and gambling, they are satisfied. Again as soon as they get little energy, again begin another skyscraper. You got this human life for solving all the problem. He is not given the chance. He's engaged otherwise, his life is spoiled. (end)

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is (why) our gurukula is there. How these children are becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, (indistinct), how they are learning Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are doing the same thing, offering obeisances to the Deities, taking prasādam, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. In the same way as his father is doing. So automatically he's being trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Good association, that is required. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvidaḥ. We are keeping this house for association of devotees so that automatically they become Kṛṣṇa conscious by association. The most unfortunate position is that there is no education about future life, or the perfection of life. The education is the animal education: the animal (is) eating, we are eating. If we are eating on table, or nice place, nice chair, then we think we are advanced. But the business is the eating. Similarly sleeping. The dog is sleeping on the street, we are sleeping in good apartment, skyscraper building. They are thinking this is advancement of civilization. But actually the business is sleeping. Similarly sex life. The dog is having sex life on the street, we are having in a very nice apartment. The business is sex. In this way our modern activities are animal activities but in a polished way. But that does not make any difference between the animal propensity and so-called civilized life. Civilized life is there when we understand what is God, our relationship with God. That is civilized life, but that is lacking. There is no such education. The education is only the same animal life in a polished way, that's all.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And if the brain is used only to find out where is sense gratification, where is sex, where is food, where is shelter, where is money? Then, that is, that business is being done by the hogs and dogs. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to save people from this dogs' and hogs' life and to come to the real platform of understanding the value of life. They do not know it. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). They do not know what is the aim of life. Simply by false hopes they are trying to adjust things with material effects. That will never do that. Durāśayā. Durāśayā means it is useless hope. It cannot be. Just like we practically see that the, here in New York City, American people are very rich and intelligent, but they cannot stop this fire which is unwanted. They cannot stop it. That is not possible. Because they are living very high, 300 feet high or more than that, you are not safe still. You are still in the same danger. Because you are living in big, big skyscraper building, it does not mean that you will not die. Death is there also, birth, death, old age, disease, the real problems of life. It does not mean that because we have advanced in so-called material civilization, you have avoided birth, death. Even big, big scientists who gave us so many big, big inventions, but still they died. They could not invent something which will protect them from death, that at the time of death, give me this pill so that I will not die and I'll go on giving you more scientific advance. That is not possible. What is your question?

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The fish eat up the algae, keep it clean.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...skyscraper building, how many stories they can build? Is there any estimation?

Rādhāvallabha: Over a hundred.

Prabhupāda: Now, how many?

Bali-mardana: There is no exact figure; they are always making higher. Now I think a hundred and thirty.

Rāmeśvara: No, it's more than that.

Bali-mardana: A hundred thirty, a hundred forty.

Prabhupāda: And when they'll fall?

Bali-mardana: When the earthquake comes, boom, everything finished.

Hari-śauri: That structure you saw in Toronto, that big tower? That's supposed to be the highest free-standing structure in the world. Over fifteen hundred feet.

Bali-mardana: In Boston there is one big skyscraper, John Hancock Building, and they cannot utilize it because... What is the reason?

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Ādi-keśava: It swings back and forth in the breeze, and all the windows fell out. When we were two years ago in Boston, every day we used to hear how more windows had fallen in, so they made it all with wood. So it was a huge skyscraper with wood in the windows instead of glass.

Bali-mardana: Still they are not utilizing it.

Ādi-keśava: No, it's still bent, it cracked open.

Bali-mardana: It cost them over sixty, seventy million dollars and they cannot use it.

Ādi-keśava: It cracked all the concrete in the sidewalk because it was bending back and forth.

Prabhupāda: Which way?

Devotee (1): Left.

Prabhupāda: They have no estimation, that "So far we can come, then we'll fall"?

Bali-mardana: It all depends upon the foundation.

Rādhāvallabha: In New York they can build them so high because the entire island of Manhattan is made out of rock, and there's never any earthquakes.

Bali-mardana: Not yet, anyway.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: He said that breaking the bricks is the business. I said the sooner you give up this, then you are happy. Karmīs, the karmīs want this, breaking the bricks. They think this is civilization. Brick, more brick, and bring more bricks and break it. That is civilization.

Hari-śauri: And then when we tell them that this is not your business, they ask us, "Why aren't you breaking bricks?"

Prabhupāda: You are punished. You are being punished in this way. Actually, I saw in New York, big, big building, they are breaking, again, another skyscraper. "No, I have business. Breaking the bricks," that's all. They think this is very good business. Once constructed, again break it. As child, children, they make a sand house and break it again. This is the occupation.

Harikeśa: But there's nothing else to do for them.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the difficulty. Now see, there is no soul. Why no soul? How foolish it is. "We believe." You believe something nonsense, it has to be accepted? Where is the difference of analogy?

Harikeśa: (laughs) They have to give up.

Prabhupāda: Analogy, the more the points of similarities are there, it is perfect. That is the logical conclusion. Everything is there similar, why you should deny the other? How rascaldom it is. Common sense.

Hari-śauri: He was a little bit confused because first of all you quoted śāstra, said everything was from śāstra. Then again you said "Forget the śāstra; this is logic." (laughter) He couldn't figure out how they both came into play. And then at the end you said that religion is logic.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, there was no hope. What is the use.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. Just about every devotee, they have thought of suicide.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they commit suicide. I have seen. Fall from the...

Hari-śauri: Skyscraper.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tower. From the bridge.

Hari-śauri: They have to put big wire screens up to stop people from jumping off.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen.

Harikeśa: Berkeley.

Prabhupāda: Berkeley, yes.

Hari-śauri: Everywhere. Sydney has bridges like that. These big towers like Eiffel Tower in Paris, they have big fences along the top so that no one can...

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very intelligent question. We are after material civilization, and they are fed up with material civilization. That is the position. We are now trying to imitate them, a skyscraper building, but they are disgusted with skyscraper building. These boys, they are coming from very respectable family, rich family, and especially in America there is no question of poor man. There is no question of poor man. But still, they do not like the materialistic way of life of their father and grandfathers.

Interviewer: But does that not mean because they are rich they can afford religion.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is the... Because you are... We have already explained. You are a spiritual being. You cannot be satisfied with material atmosphere in any stage. Just like a fish is an animal of the water. If you bring the fish from water and keep on the land very comfortably, it cannot be comfortable. It is impossible. Similarly, we are all spiritual beings. Any amount of material comforts will never satisfy us, unless we come to the spiritual platform. That is the demand. So now they have satisfied their material demands, but the urge is there, "I want something more, to be happy." And that is spiritual.

Interviewer: What is the procedure of the movement? Do you initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do that?

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: How they can defeat us? We have got so solid ground. How they can defeat, these rascals? We consider them simply rascals and fools. And we call them rascals and fools. What do they know of religion? What do they know of God? They know slaughterhouse and killing and illicit sex, and killing the fetus. That's all. What do they know? They are not even civilized. We have come to make them civilized. They should understand. They are not civilized. They do not (know) how to eat even. The first principle of life is eating. They do not know how to eat. We are teaching them how to eat. They simply challenge, that's... When men are uncivilized, they do not how to grow food, they kill animals in the jungle and eat. When they are civilized, they know how to grow food now and the nice food grains, fruit, flowers, now why should say, "You eat the meat." The meat-eating is meant for the most uncivilized persons. That means they do not know even how to eat. They do not know how to eat. How to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex. Nothing. They're having sex like cats and dogs. No marriage, girl's friend, boy's friend, and then illegitimate... So many things. They should be exposed. And there is no harm exposing, in truth. Simply by manufacturing, constructing a big, high skyscraper building, does it mean he is civilized? It is passionate work. They can take credit of a good mistri, just like so many mistris, they construct. I cannot do. Does it mean I am less than him? I could not construct this temple. I have to call some low class, a builder and company, they constructed. Does it meant he is higher in intelligence than me? They are giving credit, "Oh, now they have constructed skyscraper building. They have constructed motorcar, horseless carriage." They are taking credit on this. But this is not civilization. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given the formula of civilization, three words: matṛvat para dāreṣu. Where is that civilization? To consider every woman as mother. Except one's own married wife, all women, mother. Where is that civilization? That should be, otherwise there cannot be social regulation. Matṛvat para dāreṣu para dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, other's property is just like garbage in the street. Nobody touches the garbage. That is civilization. So Mr. Pillay... (break)

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, if the brain is clear—it is not filled up with rubbish cow dung—then Kṛṣṇa consciousness easy. Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means there is no more material consciousness. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). That is required. In material existence we have got so many obligations, thoughts (indistinct), and so many things. Bṛthā.

eta saba chāḍi' āra varṇāśrama-dharma

akiñcana hañā laya kṛṣṇaika-śaraṇa

Sarva-dharmān: Everything give up. That is India's Vedic civilization. They are not concerned with the material advancement. Simple life. That's all. And our present leaders, they are thinking that "brainwashed." They are not deeply thinking, "Why our great sages and ācāryas recommended this life, not the skyscraper life? Why? They were not less intelligent." They are not thinking in that way. They are thinking that "Because we neglected the skyscraper thoughts, we are so backward." At least this rascal Nehru was thinking like that. "So finish this." The Russia is... What is called? Opiate, brainwashed. These things are accepted like that. "It has no value, simply some prejudice and superstition, and they are thinking like that and they are spoiling their material side of life." This is their idea. "What is this? No meat-eating?" (knock on the door devotee enters with prasādam ) That little dāl, daliya,(?) bas.

Pālikā: Nothing else?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Now we have a plan. Actually I have started a business with Karandhara called the...

Prabhupāda: He has a plan to make...

Hari-śauri: Skyscraper.

Prabhupāda: Skyscraper.

Rāmeśvara: That's the plan. We're making money by truck business. (break) ...the farms. Sometimes we may invest in some advertising or promotion. And you gave Gopāla Kṛṣṇa the hint that he should take paid ads in the newspapers.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Rāmeśvara: So in America...

Prabhupāda: If there is response, good.

Rāmeśvara: We should experiment in different areas also in America.

Prabhupāda: America, I don't think so good.

Rāmeśvara: Although there is a way to develop mail order business. We found out that mail order businesses in America make millions of dollars.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just like in Kṛṣṇa's time there were cities like Mathurā, Dvārakā. They were cities, big, big city. And when Kṛṣṇa came, they were decorating, they were receiving. So that kind of city will continue, but not this hellish city-slaughterhouse, brothel and big, big tin car, and so on, accident.

Hari-śauri: Skyscrapers.

Prabhupāda: We have no objection to this, provided there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unfortunately these things cover more time for their maintenance, and they forget Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That should be stopped. The main business is development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Rāmeśvara: And you also mentioned not so much these ugra-karmic jobs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Industry. Now hundreds of thousands of people have their jobs in this way. So...

Prabhupāda: Let them go to the farm. We are therefore organizing farm. As soon as they are jobless, "Come on. We shall feed you. We shall give you food." There is no scarcity of food.

Hari-śauri: Does that mean we have to wait for the situation to arise where they are jobless?

Prabhupāda: No. Wait... We are waiting, but if anyone comes, we have already big, big farms. "Come, hundreds. We shall provide you."

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See at first... At first they don't take us very seriously. They think, "Well, a few beggars." But then they start to see one skyscraper...

Prabhupāda: All beggars. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, poor beggars, right. And then a skyscraper full of beggars, and then they realize, "How they purchased a skyscraper? These people are collecting a lot of money."

Prabhupāda: We want that they should have necessaries without any difficulty and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That they do not like. They want people to be industrialists, working very hard in the factory.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Hari-śauri: They're envious because they're struggling for their own existence, and they don't like to see us not struggle.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Envious. But if we develop this community project, farm, they cannot do anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they appreciate this farm projects.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Why shall I work? I am working for my own..., for the village."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They like that. They would also... Probably they would respect if we did some businesses, some of our members.

Prabhupāda: We can do. Manager is there.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is condemned. My position is different. Why shall I die? The rascals, they agree to die. We do not agree to die. We want to come to our original position, no more death. This is our motto, because we get information from the Bhagavad-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die on account of my material body mixed up... "Dust thou art; dust thou beist." This body is made of five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. And this is my gross body. The gross body is finished, but my mental, subtle body—mind, intelligence—that is not yet finished. That is carrying me to another body. Just like we have got practical experience. I am sitting here, you are sitting here. Mind carries me to New York, and I am now dreaming or thinking I am sitting in that room and talking with somebody. I have forgotten this, but... It is practical. Although I am sitting here, I have forgotten it, and I am working, thinking myself that I am in New York. Similarly, in dream my body is on the bed. I am thinking I am on the Himalayan top. So as it is possible even in this body, similarly, I get another body, gross body. Then I forget this body. This is transmigration. I have explained it. This is the factual. Everyone can experience. I have got a period of remaining in this body. So as soon as this period is finished I get..., I create another body and enter it. And because the period is not finished, although in dream I am getting another body and going to the Himalaya, top, or I'm going to my New York apartment, still, I have to come back because period is not finished. Simple thing. This is transmigration. Why I shall be put into this condition because my original position is eternal? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That we are teaching to the whole world: "Why you are suffering with this body? Get out of the body." This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is the best welfare activity to the human society, but because they are so dull, they cannot understand. Mūrkhāṇām upadeṣo hi prako... If first-class rascal is advised, he thinks otherwise, that "He is bothering me." So what can be done? We have taken this daṇḍa, we have accepted service of Kṛṣṇa, and if He has ordered that "You preach this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā. You'll become My very dearest servant," He'll show them. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścit. So we want to be very faithful to our master, so you may come against us. We don't mind. Jesus Christ was crucified. He didn't mind. So if you are unnecessarily prosecuting us, we don't mind. We must go on with our duty. We cannot give it up. That's all. It is not possible. What to..., you are prosecuting? If you kill us, we shall not. We have taken this daṇḍa. This is our determination. You cannot stop us. That's it. "Because we know this is the only welfare activity to the human society. You make talk, madmen. We don't care for it. To be imprisoned with this material body—the greatest suffering... You are trying to mitigate suffering, temporary, this way and that, but you do not know how." That you can show from the Bhagavad... Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). "This is real suffering. Why the eternal soul should be subjected to birth, death, old age and disease? We are seeing to this. You are thinking that 'If I can place myself in a very high skyscraper building and motorcar,' your business is finished. We are not so fool. We know that 'Any moment, I shall be kicked out of the skyscraper building and motorcar by the laws of nature.' " That's a fact. But fools cannot understand. They think, "This is my permanent..." That is not permanent, but you are permanent. "Where is my permanent situation?"—we are seeking after that. So we are not so fools. We are taking that "I am permanent. Why I should be encapped or entangled in this nonpermanent." This is our philosophy.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No. "But you do not know. We get this information, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). Eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). Therefore we are trying for that. But you are so dull, in spite of having so many... Therefore the resultant action is you are producing hippies at the end. And how you can be satisfied anymore? They are disgusted with this eating, sleeping, mating business. Now you'll have only hippies." They're disgusted with this system of education, because it is not education at all. This is keeping them in ignorance. "Dog is lying on the street, and a man is lying on the hundred second floor. What is the result? Result is sleeping. Is that improvement? The dog is sleeping very peacefully; you are sleeping-'Oh, there is tiger! Tiger! Tiger! Save me! Save me.' Will that skyscraper building help you in your mental agitation? Is that education? Everyone is taking pill to sleep. You cannot sleep even peacefully, and you are claiming that you are educated." Give this defense. "Here the dog can sleep very peacefully. You cannot sleep even peacefully. This is the resultant action of your so-called education. You are proud of this education, this life, this civilization. You are so brainless, it requires to be washed. Therefore we say it is full of stool. We have come to wash it. That is our thankless duty." What can be done?

Ādi-keśava: And for the parents of these...

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Echo mano jano mandanam arpane.(?) Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā. You can very easily do it. And neglect it simply by dog race, four-legged, four-wheel race. They have no knowledge. Anthill. I have given the name. Anthill? Yes. These big, big buildings, anthill. And these four-wheel cars, dog-race. What is the difference between the anthill and the skyscraper building?

Guest (1) (Indian man): More modern only.

Prabhupāda: The same thing. They are also living in the holes, and we have made some holes.

Bhavānanda: Even in Africa, we saw some anthills that were as big as skyscrapers.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Bhavānanda: Big, big.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twenty foot.

Bhavānanda: Twenty-foot anthills.

Prabhupāda: If more men come, then I shall describe all this anthill civilization. "Health." Nonsense, what "health"? He'll be kicked out immediately.

Guest (2) (Indian man): Even healthy development.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is real socialism. God is the supreme father. Everyone has got right to live at the cost of the father's property. But you cannot take more than that. Then you are a thief. Take whatever you... And even by nature you will find. You just immediately throw one bag of rice, so many birds will come. And they will take one or two grain or something... They will go away. And the human being, oh, he will take five shares, he will take ten shares. And within one hour, ten mounds of rice will be finished. The birds and beasts will not do that. Whatever he actually requires, they will take from there. Therefore they are not subjected to the sinful activities. Only human beings are subjected to sinful activities. But he has got developed consciousness and misusing it. There is no sinful activities for animals lower than the human being. There is no sin. Because they are under the laws of nature, the animals. And as soon as one becomes developed conscious human being, if he does not know the śāstra and guided by spiritual master, he will do all nonsense. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Vikarma, all sinful activities. Only for sense gratification. Mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. And what is the purpose of doing so many sinful activities? Yad indriya-prītaya, only for sense gratification. There is no other aim. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "No, no, don't do this." So who is giving protection to these rascals who are educated to act sinfully? That is in Bhāgavata. "No, no." Na sādhu manye. "This is not good." "But why not good? Let me enjoy." "No, you will not enjoy. You will create another body for suffering." Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). You are already suffering. You have got this body. You are already suffering on account of your past activities. And you are creating again another body for suffering. So it is not good. They do not know. (Hindi) Four-wheel dogs. That is advancement of civilization. The dog is running with four legs, and he is running with four wheels. Dag-dag-dag-dag-dag. Where you are going? And this is their scientific advancement. Competition with dog. Otherwise what they have done? The ant hill, and four-legged wheel. That's all. Four wheel legs. This is animal civilization. Without knowing the aim of life, living in big, big skyscraper building, "I am king." And running like dogs with four wheel car, Mercedes. This is dog civilization. It is not human civilization. Human civilization begins when they take Kṛṣṇa's instructions: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Divide the whole human society into four divisions and let them cooperatively act for the benefit of God. That is civilization. There civilization begins. Otherwise, what is the difference between dog and the human being? There is no difference. The leaders are teaching, "Feel like Indians." As a dog is feeling, "I am bulldog." This is our leaders. (Hindi)

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, you have given the evolution of from fish to plant, plant to insect, bird, animal. That can be little elaborately, evolution. Then human being, full consciousness. Now, this is the chance for understanding God. And if they are still kept in darkness like the animals, that's a dangerous civilization. Refusing the opportunity to the humanity. By knowing this, you can get out of this continual evolutionary process. That is anti-material world, Vaikuṇṭha world, where you can actually live. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not take birth, neither dies, and dances with Kṛṣṇa. That is life. That we are wanting. We are seeking after. It is not possible here. Here you have to go through the evolutionary process again and again if you don't take the opportunity for going back to home, back to... Then it is your misfortune. So this civilization keeping people in their unfortunate condition. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). This is opportunity to understand God and go back to Him, but that opportunity is being refused. Therefore he is returning again to the same position of birth and death. From animal to man, from man to..., up and down. But dehāntara, that is very dangerous. Tathā dehāntara, you have to change your body. Stop this. If you are scientist, stop it. Continue as American forever. Why you cannot? Why you are so proud of your so-called scientific education? Then you are under control. You have constructed this skyscraper building. Live here forever. Why don't you live? Kicked out. In the same house can become a cockroach because you have got attachment. "All right. Live here as cockroach." Who can check it? Cockroach is also life. Dehāntara. The proprietor becomes cockroach. Can you check it? Nature will do. Now we are proprietor, next life a cockroach. "Live here in your skyscraper building." How much valuable time he has wasted by constructing this skyscraper building. He remains there in the photograph, and actually his life is in the commode. Cockroach. He is living in the commode, and his son's worshiping his photograph. This is... This is called ignorance. Very misleading civilization this is. So we are trying to save everyone from this misleading civilization. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are trying ourself to be perfect and trying to teach others perfect life. Kṛṣṇa begins His teaching from this understanding. "You are not this body." This is beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. And in the bodily concept of life where is spiritual knowledge? They talk of spiritual, that life is... First of all one has to understand that "I am not this body." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. "Then if I am Brahman, then what is my value? So far I have led my bodily concept of life, but I am Brahman?" Then brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. How Brahman lives, how Brahman is produced, what is his real life. So I think this film will be useful for Svarūpa Dāmodara.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So our Gandhi's program failed because he could not attract the villagers to these activities. Everyone wants some attraction. That we were discussing, rasa, catur-vidhā-rasa, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So we have to educate them to be attracted by the mokṣa-rasa. Then they'll stay. Unless there is rasa... Just like if you put a little sugar, small black ants will come immediately. The rasa is there. Raso vai saḥ. If... If you cannot attract people to some rasa, they'll not stay. Just like these Americans, foreigners, they have tasted little rasa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore they are sticking. That we have to create. That is bhakti-rasa. So our first beginning is that the villagers may come, we have our temple, and they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and give them nice prasādam. And then, gradually, they will be attracted to this rasa. So that we want. So if we people cooperate... We have got our program already. The present problem is that they are being attracted with this artha-rasa. There are four kinds of rasa, catur-rasa: dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. So somebody is tasting dharmārtha, ritualistic ceremonies. Somebody is economic development in the cities, artha. Somebody is attracted, sense enjoyment, sex. And somebody, very pure, mokṣa-rasa. Catur-rasa. So in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness all the four rasas are there. Simply we have to present. So that is possible by the bhakti-rasa. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanam... (SB 7.5.23). So we have to begin. The villagers must come, sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and give them prasādam. If you can bring them, so far money is concerned for giving prasādam, that we shall arrange. Then, gradually, let them be engaged in spinning all their necessities of life, in plowing, in protection of the cows. They get some... We have done it already in foreign countries—enough milk, enough vegetables, enough food grains. They're so happy. They're so happy. This nonsense civilization, attracting to earn money and construct anthill... These skyscraper buildings are as good as the anthill. It has no meaning. But they are constructing. So the change of attraction. Raso vai saḥ. All the rasas, they should be trained up to take it from Kṛṣṇa. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "I have got the rasa from You. I don't want anything more." This is perfection. Otherwise, for these material rasas, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). That I was discussing last night. They have got sex rasa at home. Still, they're going prostitute-hunting. (break) "Mahatma Gandhi, you have got influence over the Muslims. Why don't you stop cow-killing?" And he said, "Oh, how can I stop it? It is their religion."

Conversation: Animals' Expertise -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are many, many experts from the lower-grade creatures. Ant hill. You are spending so much money for skyscraper building. The ant, they construct big hill as their residential quarters. Where they get their food? Where they get their...? But they are living. This is nature's study. Now you can... So what is this? Āhāra-nidrā. For eating. So for these four principles—eating, sleeping, sex, and defense—everyone knows. But the human society, they have made it a problem. These small ants, they also require those things, but they have no problem. For defense they don't require atomic weapon. They know in their own way how to defend. Cats, dogs, animals—everyone knows. Struggling. Our human society, advanced, means they are perplexed with these problems. The human life was meant for self-realization. That problem left, they have created some problems which the animals can solve in their own way. This is the present society. This political struggle and..., what is their aim, objective? To solve these problems. Nothing more. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4), indriya-prītaye, these four principles, sense gratification. The ant is also struggling. They wanted to enjoy the little sugar in the here. We have driven him. That's a problem. They have to find out somewhere else.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You cannot count how many there are. Now these, some of the jīvas, not all of them... Majority of them, they live in the spiritual world, just like majority of the population of the state, they live outside the prison house. Prison house means some of the citizens who are criminals, they are put into the jail. Similarly, these living entities who are criminals, means who have rebelled against the order of God, they are sent here, in this material world. So they are suffering one term after another. Therefore here is the chance, ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. In the form of human body you can get out of it. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). This is chance. And therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "My dear boys, you don't spoil your life." "I am working and enjoying. I am not spoiling." "No, this kind of working is done by the cats and hogs." Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: (SB 5.5.1) "For sense gratification the hogs and dogs, they also work very hard and then enjoy senses. So this body is not meant for that purpose." You are thinking that you are working so hard, karmī, and big, big skyscraper building and nice motorcar, nice roads. Electricity you have discovered. You are very advanced. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This kind of advancement..." (break)...motorcar. "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" Therefore He warns, "No, no, no, no. This is not civilization." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). "So much hard labor for sense gratification? This is not good." Then? What it is meant for? Tapo divyam. So human life is meant for tapasya, self-realization, ātma-śuddhi. Ātmā can be purified from the contamination of the material modes of nature by tapasya. That is real civilization. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam. Your existence will be purified. Now your existence is not purified. Therefore you have to accept birth and death, old age and disease. It is not purified. So here is the chance to purify your existence.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kāmasya, sense gratification, required, but not for sense gratification's sake. It requires only for living comfortably. You try to make the economic development, that is all right. But they have taken simply for sense gratification. "I have got one car, and there must be another three cars for my children and wife." This is going on, kāma, increasing. Economic development... You require some occupational duty for earning your livelihood... That is allowed. But why more and more, more, more, more? For that, they are making scientific research how to satisfy senses. So kāmasya na indriya-prītiḥ. You require some sense gratification not for the senses, but because you have got a bad bargain, this body, just to maintain it, not more than. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. So there are so many problems we have created. They do not understand. And this civilization are simply gratifying senses, so dangerous. And dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). And they create a position by very, very hard labor, and the body is changed. Then śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). What benefit you get? This life, you make a skyscraper building, three dozen cars, and next life, you become a dog. Then what is your profit? What do you gain? They do not gain anything. So that change of body is in nature's hand. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). That is not in your hand. When the body will change, you cannot say, "No, no, I'll not change," because that is not under your dictation. So is not simply waste of time?