Prabhupāda: Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ (BG 7.28). One who has finished sinful activities, he can be engaged in God consciousness. One who is engaged in sinful activities, he cannot. Devil citing scripture. A devīl cannot cite scripture. Angel can cite scripture. And according to our ācāryas, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he says that "Don't hear scriptures from the devīl." Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtaṁ śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyam." If a devīl's preaching about God, don't hear." If you say, "God is pure, so let me hear about God. It doesn't matter whether he is devīl or angel. It doesn't matter." No. The argument is sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. Just like milk is very nourishing food, but if it is touched by the lips, by the tongue of a serpent, it becomes poison. Sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. You cannot bring the milk which is touched by the serpent's tongue. So we should receive knowledge of God, message of God, from a person who is not a devīl. Then it will be effective. Otherwise, it will act as poison. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's principle is āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. He first of all behaves himself, and then he preaches. So if the preacher is sinful, how he can deliver other sinful men by his so-called preaching. That is not possible. He must be pure, he must be sinless.
Sinful men (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Well, hypocrisy and other things, they are subsidiary. If one is pure from the very beginning, then there is no chance of becoming hypocrite. Why he should be hypocrite? If he is open, clear, why one should become hypocrite? Hypocrisy, when there is sinful activity, then hypocrisy. If there is no sin, where is the possibility of hypocrisy? A sinful man may pose himself a religious man. That is hypocrisy. But if there is no sin, then where is hypocrisy?
Father Tanner: What I didn't understand is how this is covered by your four pillars, the four...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Father Tanner: Which of these would cover lying?
Prabhupāda: Lying?
Prabhupāda: "My heart is always burning in material existence." Juḍāite nā koinu upāy: "But I did not make any means by which I can get out of it." Brajendra-nandana jei, śacī-suta hoilo sei: "Formerly the same Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, who was, who appeared as the son of Nanda Mahārāja, He has again appeared as the son of Śacīdevī." And balarāma hoilo nitāi: "And Balarāma has appeared as Nityānanda Prabhu." So their business is: dīna-hīna jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, all sorts of sinful men, and materially suffering men, all of them have been delivered by these two brothers, Gaura-Nitāi, by preaching the saṅkīrtana movement. Tāra śākṣī jagāi mādhāi: "They have delivered all kinds of sinful men. The evidence is Jagāi and Mādhāi." Hā hā prabhu nanda-suta, vṛṣabhānu-sutā-juta: "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, the son of Nanda Mahārāja, you are now standing with Rādhārāṇī, the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu.
Prabhupāda: No, the things is that it is the government's duty to see that nobody is rascal, either the scientist is rascal or the priest is rascal. There must be real understanding. That is government's duty. Otherwise, if the priest says, "The scientist speaking against religion; therefore he should be hanged," so that is not good government. Government must see that whether the scientist is speaking the truth. That sense must be there. Yes, world is round. That is fact. Goloka. In Vedic literature it is bhū-gola, jagad-aṇḍa. These words are there. We can see also it is round, jagad-aṇḍa. The universe is round. And Goloka. Or Bhū-gola. Bhū-gola, the earth is round. So in the Vedic literatures... Therefore their knowledge is also imperfect because they do not refer to the Vedic literatures. It is already there. Bhū-gola. Bhū means the earth; gola means round. It is already there. And the geography's called, according to Sanskrit, it is called Bhū-gola. Long, long ago, before Galileo. So if the state is blind, he does not see whether he's talking right or wrong, then havi candra raja gobi candra mantri (?). What can be done. That is going on. Because the government means a set of fools, so all foolish people are flourishing. Government is a set of fools because sinful men. They cannot be intelligent. A sinful man cannot be intelligent. Yes. That's a fact.
Devotee: They would lose too much money if they closed the slaughterhouses. Many of the senators and congressmen have much money from the slaughterhouses and intoxication. They own big ranches of cows and bulls.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And they are leaders. The most sinful man is the leader. So how you can be happy?
Prajāpati: We would get support from the people who make imitation meat made of soybeans and vegetables that taste like meat. They would be in favor.
Girirāja: No, they will say that "It is not against our religion to eat meat."
Prabhupāda: It is not religion. It is a question of becoming sinless. Every religion will say that you become sinless. Every religion.
Girirāja: But in my religion eating meat is not a sin.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: Four types of people.
Prabhupāda: Rascals and mūḍhās and sinful men, they do not do that.
Mr. Sar: And then again, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ...
Prabhupāda: But those who are pious, sukṛtina, they do.
Dr. Patel: Catur-vidhā bhajante... My name is Caturbhai. (Prabhupāda chuckles)
Mr. Sar: One of them, catur-vidhā. But they... Their mode of worship is fourfold, ārto jijñāsur arthārthī... (break)
Prabhupāda: Ārto, ārto jijñāsi means gṛhasthas.
Dr. Patel: Dvandva-mohena bhārata.
Mr. Sar: Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām...
Prabhupāda: Ah. This dvandva-mohaḥ exists with the sinful man, but one who is freed from all sinful reactions, resultant actions, he can understand Kṛṣṇa.
Mr. Sar: Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 7.28).
Prabhupāda: Māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Then he engages himself dṛḍha-vratāḥ: "No, I am simply servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all."
Mr. Sar: Jarā-maraṇa-mokṣāya mām āśritya yatanti ye, te brahma...
Prabhupāda: Now, here, here the real problem is jarā-maraṇa-mokṣāya. But they are, these people, they are engaged in paltry things. The real business is how to become free from the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). They do not know that. Real, real purpose of life they do not know. Take any big leader. He does not know what is the aim of life. What is the problem of life, he does not know. Mūḍha na abhijānanti, mūḍha māṁ nābhijānanti.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. It is a civilization of rascals. That's all. That duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means they have got merit. As human being, everyone has got merit. That is used for sinful activities. That's all. Duṣkṛtina. Therefore they are godless. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). All these sinful men, rascals, they don't care for God. They don't care for next life. This is the position. They don't believe in these things. If they believe in these things, they'll have to be systematized. They don't want that. The life is, what is called, extravagancy? No? Now it is a... Systematically they are following. The karmīs, they work hard, whole week, and the end of the weekend, they call any beautiful woman, pay her something, don't take responsibility of family life. This has become a system. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Yeah. Because this is the beginning of higher principles. "No, no, this may let... Let it remain. Let us go to the higher principles." The rascal does not know that you cannot go without learning A,B,C,D, how you can ask for passing M.A. examination? But "No, I do not know A,B,C,D, but let me go for passing M.A. examination." You see. This is A,B,C,D, that yeṣām anta gatam... Any sinful man, he cannot understand about God. It is not possible. Paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. But without being pavitra, they want to go to the platform of understanding God.
Yogeśvara: Just like that Gene Herbert.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: A devotee means, real devotee means, he has no purpose for material gain. That is real devotee. Now we have to see what kind of devotee he is. There are two kinds of devotees: with purpose and without purpose. The "without purpose" devotee is pure devotee, and "with purpose" devotee, they are material devotee. That is distinguished in Bhagavad-gītā,
- ārto arthārthī jijñāsur
- jñānī ca bharatarṣabha
- catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ
- (janāḥ) sukṛtinaḥ arjuna
- (BG 7.16)
There are pious men and sinful men. Sinful men cannot become devotee. Pious men can become devotee.
Prabhupāda: This nonsense thing has created all problems. Therefore Vedic civilization is—first teaching is brahmacārī—how to learn to avoid sex life. If one can continue without sex life he is praised, naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī. If one cannot, all right you become a perfect gṛhastha. So many rules and regulations. Dharmāviruddhaḥ kāma, that is all right, but if you use sex life for sense gratification and becomes implicated in so many sinful activities, then how he'll be happy? A sinful man cannot become happy, that is not possible. All our sinful activities, the so-called scientists are helping, "Yes, you can do this." And the church is sanctioning. This is going on. The Christian religion says, "Thou shalt not kill," and they are now teaching, "yes, you can kill the child. You have killed cows and so many things, that is all right. Again you kill your child."
Prabhupāda: No, it has been made easy by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That you don't commit sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and don't commit sinful life, that's all. And sinful life we have given them, no illicit sex—we don't say, "no sex"—no illicit sex, no illicit sex, no meat eating. Suppose... They are not now eating meat, are they unhealthy? They are known now as bright-faced. So no illicit sex, no meat eating, no intoxication, and no gambling. This is avoiding sinful life. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Do you see the result? Do you see the result? Within four, five years how they have advanced. Not that they're Vedantists or they have studied all the Vedas, not that. Simple thing. Have you ever come here in the evening when they perform ārati, kīrtana? Just see how ecstatic it is. Simple thing. Don't commit sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, bas. You'll become elevated. Jagāi, Mādhāi, they were—in those days, because they were drunkards, women hunters, meat-eaters—they were considered most sinful. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered them by this process. There were two Jagāi and Mādhāi and now hundreds and thousands of Jagāis and Mādhāis are becoming purified. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. Everyone wants evidence. Huh? Pāpī-tāpī, all sinful men were delivered simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you may ask what is the evidence?
Prabhupāda: Oh. So cow is very important animal. So from religious point of view, or from economic point of view, cows are not allowed, in the Vedic civilization, to be killed. The meat-eaters, they are everywhere, all over the world, but in India meat-eating is allowed—the fifth class, fifth grade community, they eat these cows when it is dead. And the śūdra class, they also eat meat restrictively, goats. That is only under certain restriction, means sacrifice. The goat is sacrificed in the Goddess Kali's temple, and they eat. This is very dangerous, this sacrifice. It is very dangerous. It creates all sinful men. In the Christian religion also, it is said, "Thou shall not kill," and they are killing. So what kind of Christians they are?
Bernard Manischewitz: Do they kill them in a slaughterhouse?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Devotee: What is the population of Australia?
Madhudviṣa: Two hundred thousand people a year.
Prabhupāda: If they spend money for the poor country, they'll not do that. Sinful man is given this form of tea(?), a tree. So, but nature is so nice that even the sinful living entities can beautify. How properly utilized. But they have no fruits and flowers.
Madhudviṣa: No. Kali-yuga trees. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...are available here? No.
Devotee: Popper? Yes.
Prabhupāda: Indian store here? No.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they will be punished. (pause) (break) ...so many motor accidents. And there will be war. Then wholesale punishment. Then killing, being killed within the womb of the mother. They are being punished. Nowadays these things have been introduced. Now this child which is being killed by the mother, they are all these sinful men. They cannot come out even, out of the womb of the mother. There they are killed. Nature's law is very strict.
Australian devotee 3: In the western society, Śrīla Prabhupāda, people who are displaying a very bad sinful reaction in their birth are put away in institutions so they cannot be seen by the general mass of people.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that?
Viṣṇujana: Is that why you keep traveling, Prabhupāda, so they won't catch you?
Prabhupāda: Nārada Muni was accused by Prajāpati Dakṣa that "You are traveling in the dress of a sādhu, but you are the most sinful man. You have turned my sons in the renounced order of life to become beggar, without any advancement, without any enjoyment." So that accusation is always there, beginning from Nārada Muni down to us. Some parents came to demonstrate?
Brahmānanda: In Los Angeles, yes. I understand they've demonstrated before, someone was saying? They had placards, and they were marching.
Bhāvānanda: In Laguna Beach they also.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Dr. Judah has said...
Harikeśa: Someone was telling me that the weather here was supposed to be like Miami.
Prabhupāda: Miami? (break) ...places were reserved for the sinful man in Kali-yuga. Formerly the Aryans never touched these places.
Harikeśa: Africa.
Prabhupāda: Africa or similar, other places. They were living in best places, like India. Now the number of sinful persons are increasing. Therefore they have been transferred here.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: America?
Prabhupāda: Anywhere.
Prabhupāda: It was a great service. That was a great service, recognized. (break)
Devotee (8): It's a type of poem.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, so this, like sword. The tree is just like sword, and the sinful man is pushed through that tree.
Jñāna: Prabhupāda, I've heard that even in hell the people think they are enjoying. Is that right?
Prabhupāda: Where you have heard? (laughter)
Jñāna: I thought that that was your own words.
Prabhupāda: Don't think like that.
Cyavana: Not to think but to know.
Prabhupāda: All sinful activity. Ugra-karma. And if you drink wine, then you must require meat. Otherwise your liver function will be bad. There must be lump of meat. And as soon as wine and meat combine, then you require illicit sex. It is one after another. This is scientific. So we stop immediately: "Stop these four principles." Then one will be free from sinful life. Then he'll understand what is God. Otherwise not possible. A sinful man cannot understand what is God. Why the whole world is godless? On account of the sinful life, they cannot understand.
Devotee (2): So the means of production have to be changed into pious type of...
Prabhupāda: No. If you stop sinful activities, the production will automatically stop. If there is no market for wine, then it will stop automatically. So you stop drinking, and the market for liquor will stop. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we can return. (break) ...has not come today? He is entangled with his grandson.
Prabhupāda: Both ways. I cannot violate. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that you simply speak what Kṛṣṇa has said, and Kṛṣṇa says that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal. He is a most sinful man, he is the lowest of mankind. So why shall I not say? It is not firing; it is telling the truth. (laughs with Patel) But I am not loser. I am, I do not make any compromise. All these my students ask, I never made any compromise. But still they understand, and they are with me.
Dr. Patel: But we are also with you.
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, those who are outsiders. In Los Angeles, so many scientists used to come, so after talking with them, I used to say, "You are demon, you are rascal." And they tolerated. (everyone laughing) And they remained for two hours talking and then taking prasādam. They were happy that I called them demons and rascals.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sinful activities?
Prabhupāda: Duskrtino mūḍhaḥ. Anyone commits sin, he is a rascal. Ordinarily also. A person kills somebody—that means he is rascal. He is rascal. He does not care for the law. That means rascal. So any sinful man is a rascal. Without being rascal, one cannot commit sin.
Devotee: Last week in Bombay, Śrīla Prabhupāda, an American astronaut that went to the moon, they asked him if he experienced God or he felt some help from God in his trip. And he said, "No, I had no religious experience. God must have gone the other way."
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Gurukṛpā: Which way was that?
Prabhupāda: It is the ajñāta-sukṛti, say. Ajñāta-sukṛti. You might have done something, very pious activities, which you do not know, but on the effect of...
Madhudviṣa: So it seems like it's up to chance, then.
Prabhupāda: No chance. Just like a sinful man. Some saintly person comes to him and he gives some money to him. He does not know that "I am doing very pious activity," but because he has given, he becomes pious.
Revatīnandana: If not even a blade of grass moves unless Kṛṣṇa sanctions it, then why does someone have the opportunity to perform such ajnata-sukrti, another person not?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa wants.... Suppose a saintly person comes to a very sinful man. He needs some money. Immediately Kṛṣṇa says, "Give him some money. He requires." So he says, "All right, sir, take it." So Kṛṣṇa's desires, he gives. Unless Kṛṣṇa dictates from within, how he can give?
Prabhupāda: Well, this word sincere, there is no meaning unless he is a devotee. Ei bala ei manda sab mano dharma: "These are all mental concoction." There is no meaning. "This man is good. This man is sincere. This man is bad. This man is..." They are all mental concoction. Only good is he who is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Others all rascals.
Hariśauri: So if Kṛṣṇa has given the dictation, then is He dictating every sinful man to give?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hariśauri: Is he dictating every sinful man to give?
Prabhupāda: Why do you question like that? Kṛṣṇa is so foolish that He will dictate to give to a foolish, er, sinful man? It is odd question.
Prabhupāda: What does he say? Hm?
Hariśauri: The point.... The point...
Prabhupāda: Somebody answer.
Jayādvaita: Not every sinful man is dictated to give money; otherwise they'd all be giving us money. They're all sinful. We'd be getting money from everyone.
Revatīnandana: But then the question is why some and not others also?
Trivikrama: Kṛṣṇa is in everyone's heart.
Gurukṛpā: But some are innocent.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's dictation.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's dictation.
Revatīnandana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And you cannot bind Kṛṣṇa to dictate in a similar way. If He likes, He can ask a sinful man, "Do this." If He doesn't like, He may not act. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Revatīnandana: So ultimately it is simply by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: ...that he comes back to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to carry out simply Kṛṣṇa's order or His representative's order. Then it is all good. Either killing or not killing, it doesn't matter because it is coming directly from the Supreme. And that is spiritual. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa induced Arjuna to kill? He was presenting as very good man, that "I shall not kill." And that's.... Actually that is good. Even if you enemy excuse him, that is very good idea. But if it is not desired by Kṛṣṇa, then it is bad. So our principle is: We have to act according to the desire of Kṛṣṇa. Then it is good; otherwise bad. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So in spite of advancement of knowledge, because they are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore they are all duṣkṛtinaḥ, all sinful men. That is the test. So it is very difficult to understand this philosophy, but this is the fact. We are not going to be followers of zero-vādīs or impersonal-vādīs. We remain completely in the varieties, but these varieties are usable only for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual. You cannot stop the varieties. You have to change the quality of the varieties. Just like we are eating. It is not possible to stop eating.
Prabhupāda: That mercy depends on Him. You cannot dictate Him. If I am merciful, that will depend on me, whether I can show you mercy or I can condemn you. That is, depends on me. Simply on the basis of "God is merciful," I can do all unlawful things, this is not practical proposal. Merciful means it depends on me. Whether I shall show mercy or I shall be very strong and strict, that is my will, freedom. I may show you mercy, I may not show. You cannot force me, that "You must become merciful." That is not right. God is really merciful. Otherwise, how He's supplying this... In the morning if a fog, so God mercifully has asked sun, "Now give them some sunlight." So we are enjoying. He is merciful. When there is sunshine you see the sinful man and the pious man, both enjoy. That is His mercy. When he bestows His mercy, it is for all of them, either you are sinner or you are pious. That is God's mercy.
Prabhupāda: That is God's greatness. You'll have to spend so much money, labor, to bring a few buckets of water from other place. Beyond that, you cannot do anything. But God is so powerful, so great, that within a twinkling of, within a few minutes only, immediately He can overcast with cloud and overflood the whole tract of land. That is God's greatness. You have to understand God's greatness in that way. If the sinful, number of sinful men are great, God immediately starts one war, and within few years, all finished. Russia finished, America finished, everyone. That is greatness of God. In this way try to understand how God is great in every activity. In mercy He's great, in cruelty He's great. If He wants to show cruelty, He's the greatest cruel. No discrimination, all finished. Never mind women, children or cats, dogs—all finished. That is cruelty, greatness of cruelty. Then there is greatness of mercy. So that is greatness. So you study, in God, the greatness, how great He is. At night you have so many lights for illuminate your city, home, and so many electric powerhouse going on, and God is so great that one sun-immediately, all light.
Or a son... Not that the, one has to become exactly like the father. It may be. There is every possibility, but it is not a fact that the son becomes like the father. It is not fact. So similarly, the first class man is truthful. Now, wherever you find a truthful man, you classify him as brāhmaṇa. That is wanted. Why do you take that "Here is a son of truthful man; therefore he is brāhmaṇa"? That is misconception. You have to pick up the truthful men all over the world and classify them as brāhmaṇa. That we are doing. "If you follow these principles, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, no meat-eating, you are brāhmaṇa. Come on." His father may be meat-eater or gambler or drunkard, but he is agreeing, "All right, come on, this come. You are welcome." Then it will be all right. You cannot abolish the truthful class of men. There are... You'll find truthful men everywhere. So you have to pick up. So Kṛṣṇa says that, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā, guṇa-karma... You pick up the quality of men and put them in the brahminical class, and then next, kṣatriya class, then vaiśya class, then śūdra class. But you cannot abolish that system. That is a false attempt. Because more or less, there will be a class of men who are truthful. You cannot abolish. More or less, there will be a class of men who are sinful. So as soon as you want to pick up from a family, then it is mistake, miscalculated. That caste system should be abolished. But real classification... Not caste. It is classification. Intelligent class of men, or truthful class of men, the fighter class of men, that will continue all over the world. You cannot abolish it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you first of all learn Sanskrit, then you (indistinct). If there is (indistinct). This practice should be stopped. If you want to preach Bhagavad-gītā, and if you want to preach your own philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā, don't do this preaching. You preach your philosophy, your (indistinct). You can preach any philosophy you like, but don't take Bhagavad-gītā and (indistinct) on it. (?) That is my (indistinct). That is being done. That is being done. So therefore, instead of studying, collecting so many literatures, why not take Bhagavad-gītā as it is and preach? And as evidence to prove he is (indistinct) ...all over the world. Before me for 200 years there was preaching of Bhagavad-gītā. Not a single person became... It is the history of (indistinct). Now you see thousands. Why? Because there is no interpretation. There is no interpretation. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). We are presenting, "Here is God." You are searching after God, Kṛṣṇa, and they are accepting. They do not (indistinct), what is Kṛṣṇa. What is this? How they are accepting? Because it is the real thing, there is no interpretation. They are not Hindus, they are not born in India. How they have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? They have given up bad habits, no illicit sex. Because you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa unless you are free from all sinful activities. Anyone who is sinful, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We test him. We test like this, that Kṛṣṇa says this, that anyone who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, he is under the four groups: duṣkṛtina, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That's it. We are fools and rascals, we have no such education. But we take Kṛṣṇa's word that "Here is a fool, here is a sinful man, here is a narādhamāḥ, here is māyayāpahṛta." So unless you stick to this point, that we shall preach Bhagavad-gītā (indistinct) then there is no meaning of it. You are misled, you will mislead others. But if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, as Kṛṣṇa said, then... If you are not prepared to do that, then however (indistinct) interpretation, thousands of literatures, the result is (indistinct). This is practical.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hm. Caitanya's movement is pāpī tāpī yata chilo hari-nāme uddharilo. All sinful men, all suffering humanity, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, they were. Pāpī tāpī yata chilo hari-nāme uddharilo. How it is possible? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. You see the Jagāi-Mādhāi, how they became Vaiṣṇava. This is Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's song. So you have to ask anything?
Pradyumna: Just one thing. What does... It said in a text in just one wife-about Jarāsandha. Jarāsandha. Actually the story in Mahābhārata is that one half came from one wife and another half came from another.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just like sex life is enjoyment, but a person who is suffering from tuberculosis—his death. He'll die if he indulges in sex life. That is medical science. "So it is condemned in the material world, not in the spiritual world. If you have good health, you can enjoy sex life. But you have tuberculosis? You'll die. Your sex life is death, and their sex life is life. That you cannot understand. You have such a poor brain that you could not follow even ordinary moral instruction of Jesus Christ." Answer should be given like that. "If you remain with your poor brain, don't try to argue. Be satisfied, your poor doggish brain, hoggish brain. You are like pigs and dogs. What you can understand about religion? First of all try to train yourself to be free from the sinful activities. Then you'll understand what is religion." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam (BG 7.28). Ultimately, a person, sinful man, cannot go to the kingdom of God. Is it not? First of all stop this sex life; then talk of God. It is a fact. When the order of Jesus Christ, "Thou shall not kill," for the last two thousand years the rascals have never stopped killing. They are simply increasing slaughterhouse. And... So they are so poor in understanding, they say animal has no soul.
Prabhupāda: No, sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46). Sve sve karmany abhirataḥ saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ. You have been put into that profession. That does not mean because you have to deal with some sinful men you have to become a sinful. That does not mean. (laughs) As your profession you can do.
Guest (1): No, that I can always see. Because all the sinners have a right to come to you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (chuckling)
Guest (1): You deal with the better number of sinners than the...
Prabhupāda: Pāpī tāpī jāta chilo, hari-nāme uddharilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. You are lawyer. You want evidence how pāpī tāpī has been delivered. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "Here is the evidence," tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. So practically we have to deal with Jagāi and Mādhāi, so many. And by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, hari-nāme uddharilo-hari-nāma is so powerful that everyone can be delivered, especially in this age. And so far one's profession is concerned, Kṛṣṇa said that even in fire, so pure, there is some smoke.
Prabhupāda: If you practice muṣṭika, naturally you become very stout and strong. There are many wrestlers. They have got very strong body. But yoga does not mean that. Yoga means to find out the antaryāmī, Paramātmā, within the core of the heart. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). This information we get from the śāstra, that God is also situated within the core of the heart of every living... Sarva-bhūtānām. It is not that God is sitting in the core of the heart of the human being and not in the core of the heart of the dogs. He is there also. But the difference is that the dog cannot find out; man can find out. Therefore he is educated, taught about the yoga system so that constantly he can meditate upon antaryāmī, viṣṇu-mūrti. Perhaps you have seen the picture. We have got that picture. But that is the purpose of yoga, not to make the body strong or the mind very powerful. That is automatically done. Aiye. It does not require separate attempt. Just like if you get one thousand of rupees, ten rupees is already there. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then you get all perfection. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Catur-vidhā bhajante mām. Four kinds of men, catur-vidhā, sukṛtinaḥ. If there is piety on the background, not the rascals or sinful man... Therefore śāstra always recommends to be pious, because a pious man has got the future chance of understanding God.
| Page Title: | Sinful men (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 24 of Jun, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=35, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 35 |