Expressions researched:
"sinful life"
|"sinful lives"
Guest (2): But in that way, if you talk from that, another way of ahaṅkāra and pride, then things cannot go far. Things cannot go far.
Prabhupāda: So shall I answer now? Now you stop; I answer. Now Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So even though you have got so many sinful life, Kṛṣṇa assures that "If you surrender unto Me I shall give you protection from the reaction."
Interviewer: Men or women. There is place for women in the religion too isn't...?
Prabhupāda: Woman and man have got the same right. Just like we are getting married boys and girls. They're following the same principles. The same principles. So these are the four pillars of perfect life. And if we indulge in these things, illicit sex life, meat-eating, and intoxication, and gambling, then they become the four pillars of sinful life. And If we take them away, then they become, the prohibited portion becomes the pillars of perfect life.
Interviewer: There is place for women in the religion too, isn't there?
Prabhupāda: No, man and woman has got, have got the same right. Just like we are getting married boys and girls. They are following the same principles, the same principles. So these are the four pillars of perfect life. If we indulge in these things—illicit sex life, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling—then they become the four pillars of sinful life. And if we take them away, then they become, the prohibitive portion, becomes the pillars of perfect life.
Guest (1): Your mind can be filled with this kind of sin.
Prabhupāda: Irritated... If your mind is in peace... If you are not indulging in intoxication, gambling, illicit sex, then your mind will not be irritated. How a gambler can be in peaceful mind? That is not possible. How a drunkard can be in peaceful mind? Agitation is for them who are simply engaged in sinful life. Those who are not engaged in sinful life, naturally they are peaceful. Their mind is not agitated. Vegetarians are naturally peaceful. Just see between a dog and a cow. (laughter). Dog unnecessarily will talk: "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" (makes barking sound) without any fault. "Why you are here? Why you are here? Why you are here?" That is dog's qualification. A cow, so useful animal, it will never agitate.
Guest (1): Well, I had a friend who was a vegetarian...
Prabhupāda: No, apart from this, these two animals. One is dog, and another is cow. So dog is worshiped and cow is sent to the slaughterhouse. What kind of civilization it is? Huh?
Haŕsadūta: Animal.
Prabhupāda: Less than! Cow is supporting the whole society with milk. Every morning, without milk, we cannot live. The child, without milk, cannot live. She should be treated as mother. And they are being sent to the slaughterhouse. And still, they are thinking of becoming free from sinful life. Can anyone kill his own mother? "Oh, mother is old and useless. Let her be killed. Burden." Is that very gratitude for the mother by the son?
Revatīnandana: They do that. As soon as the cow is too old to give milk, immediately slaughterhouse. I was talking to one man, he was a cowherdsman here in England. He said he couldn't stand it. He said a nice cow, she would get old, she couldn't give milk anymore, immediately slaughterhouse. Just like that. The most disgusting thing.
Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not so easy. First of all, you were talking about the Christian religion. I say that Christian religion or Hindu religion or Muslim religion, there may be different religions, but what is the aim of religion? That you should understand. The aim of religion is to know God. If you profess some religion, but if I ask you what is God, if you cannot explain, then what is the use of your becoming religious?
Journalist (1): Probably none. But people like to have, or seem to like to have a religion.
Prabhupāda: They don't like. They don't like God. They don't like God. As soon as somebody speaks of God, "They say they are crazy." So actually there is no Christian, no Hindu, no Muslim. All demons. That's all.
Journalist (1): How do you stop that?
Prabhupāda: Well, become religious. If you are really Christian, that is all right. But you are not Christian because you are violating the orders of Lord Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed his life and he says that he atoned for your sins, but you are not stopping your sinful life, and still you are claiming to be Christian. The fun is going on. Actually there is no Christian. Otherwise Christian religion is very nice religion. Yes.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: I think she wants to know what happens to the soul. Supposing that a plant, we are killing the plant and offering in prasādam to Kṛṣṇa. The jīva soul who is living in the plant, what happens to him?
Prabhupāda: Because he is killed for Kṛṣṇa's purpose so he gets immediately liberation.
Devotee (lady): This is a very sinful life they're living unless we offer everything to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Not anything. Kṛṣṇa, whatever says (indistinct). Kĺńṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). You can offer these things which is asked by Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: These people or this revolution is meant for killing the sinful resultant actions of the people. This revolution. Janatā agha, agha means resultant action of sinful life. Janatā agha viplavaḥ. Viplavaḥ means revolution, this very word is used.
Guest (2): Do you seek government help?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If I get government help, I can give protection to these confused, frustrated youths. I have no proper house to accommodate them, to feed them. With great difficulty I am pushing on this movement. So if the government comes forward, this means a little facility, I can turn the face of your country, immediately. There will be no problem.
Guest (2): What can you cure? What can you make better?
Prabhupāda: This is the cure: I am making good character. Don't you see their face? Some of them were hippies, frustrated, wretched condition. Now they are known as bright faces, serious character. They don't have any illicit sex. They don't eat meat. They don't have any intoxication. They don't engage in gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. If you allow people to indulge in sinful life, how you can expect good citizen? That is not possible. Their character must reform. So we have taken from the root. We are making men of character, knowledge, sincerity, God conscious. Don't you appreciate it?
Guest (4): Swamiji, what is the role of meat-eating in...
Prabhupāda: Meat-eater means sinners. He cannot understand Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (4): Well, where is it...?
Prabhupāda: It is said in the śāstra, striyaḥ sūnā pānaṁ dyūtaṁ yatrādharmaś catur-vidhāḥ: "Four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex life, striyaḥ; sūnā, the animal slaughter; pānam, intoxication; dyūtam, gambling." These are the four pillars of sinful life. So you have to break these pillars of sinful life. Then you can understand Kṛṣṇa. They have broken. On my word they have broken the first four pillars and therefore they are advanced.
Prabhupāda: Everyone, according to our Vedic culture, for the last five thousand years, everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but he'll not do. He will say, "Why Kṛṣṇa will be the Supreme Lord? I am also." This is offense. This is offense. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. This offense is created on account of sinful life. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. Innocent has no sinful life. Otherwise there is no difference between ignorant and innocent.
Father Tanner: Are there other sins?
Śrutakīrti: Are there other sins beside these four...?
Prabhupāda: These are the basic principle of sinful life. Other sinful activities come out of it. Just like illicit sex life. Illicit relationship of a man and woman, there may be many dangerous things. You see? So the basic principle is the illicit sex life. Now, it can go up to murdering and so many things. So if we avoid the basic principles, the further subsidiary sinful activities automatically stopped.
Prabhupāda: ...The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill," and the Christian people are killing, maintaining slaughterhouse. What is this? This is my question. How they'll understand God if they are so much implicated in sinful activities? According to Vedas, there are four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, unnecessary killing of animals, intoxication and gambling. Yatra pāpaś catur-vidhaḥ. So God is purest. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). How one can approach God if he leads a sinful life? That is our propagation. You give up this sinful life. Then you'll be able to understand God. You follow Christianity or Mohammedanism or Buddhism. It doesn't matter. You give up this sinful life.
Prabhupāda: ...So some people are cheating and some people are being cheated. This is the society.
Mother: Yes. But I think one has to be clever enough not to let people cheat you.
Prabhupāda: Clever means that he must stay in his own land. He should not be cheated by the paper and go to the city.
Mother: But we have to teach our young to be able to define between those who cheat and those who..., be able to tell people who...
Prabhupāda: The whole civilization is a plan of cheating others. That's all. And they're all sinful. According to our Vedic understanding, there are four things sinful, pillars of sinful life: illicit sex, unnecessary killing of animals, intoxication and gambling.
Haṁsadūta: ...you haven't... Why hasn't there been peace in our civilization? Because we're practicing these four things: meat..., animal killing, intoxication, illicit sex life and gambling. According to Vedic scripture, these four activities are the sum and substance of sinful life, and sinful life means...
Prabhupāda: Pollution.
Haṁsadūta: Pollution. Or reaction. You're getting... Just like you make an automobile; you get the reaction-air pollution. So if you kill animals, you will be killed.
Haṁsadūta: What does it mean that Christ died for us, in order that we may live. Or in other words, died for our sins. He wants to know, because he's going to live anyway, he's eternal anyway, what is the meaning of that statement? What is the meaning?
Prabhupāda: So far I understand, the Christians give explanation that Christ took the resultant action of sinful life of everyone and he condoned by his giving his own life. Is that not?
Haṁsadūta: Yes. It is.
Prabhupāda: ...Unless one is God conscious, he's a rascal. Immediately, take it. We take it like that. As soon as you say godless, atheist, oh, a rascal. That's all. It may be the understanding of God is not so perfect. But he thinks there is God. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. And the demons will never accept God. Just like in Russia. All set of rascals. They do not believe in God.
Dr. Hauser: But the interest... The religious interest in Russia is, is greater than in any other country in Europe. But not the, the leaders are not...
Prabhupāda: I say the leaders. Not only in Russia. Everywhere. The leaders, the rascal leaders spoiling the whole world situation. In India also. In India, by nature, they are aloof from these four principles of sinful life. Eighty percent of the population, by nature. But government, at the present moment, the leaders, they're inducing them to eat meat, to drink. And gambling also. Introducing. Gambling. Government is issuing that gambling cards. Because government means some rascal just like Nixon has gone to the power. Now he's proved he's a rascal. So everywhere the government leaders means all rascals.
Prabhupāda: ...Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is not difficult. Anyone can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And no illicit sex life. No... Even one cannot follow these restrictions, if he chants, he will be benefited. But if he chants and follows these restrictive rules, then he will be perfect in this life. And that is not difficulty. Suppose if I do not eat meat. We are not eating meat. We are not dying. We are eating so many nice things, prepared from vegetables, grains, milk. So that is not very important thing, that one has to eat meat and commit sinful life. So anyone can avoid it. They are not smoking, they are not drinking, they are not dying. So without smoking or without drinking, nobody will die.
Prabhupāda: ...The solution is to, back to home, back to Godhead. Otherwise there is no solution. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). The stringent laws of māyā is very strong. You cannot surpass them. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is possible to get out of this entanglement. Otherwise it is not possible. They have tried so many ways and means to solve the problems, but they could not do anything.
Guest (1): Yes, corruption in the politics...
Prabhupāda: Yes, corruption will increase, sinful life increase, cheating. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Misfortune. These things will...
Guest (1): Adulteration of food.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Even government cannot give nice food to the people, what to speak of nice government. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam...
Prabhupāda: ...Of course, there must be consideration. Otherwise, how they are doing? But this obedience is there. That is called surrender. Mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā. Where to go?
Devotee: This way.
Prabhupāda: Nitya-dāsa prati tuwā adhikārā. Just like slaves. Sometimes the master used to kill. In this country?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is not very good. Therefore these, they became independent now. But actually, slave means that. If the master likes... What is that light? Some ship?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes.
Karandhara: I think that's an oil well.
Prabhupāda: Oh, oil drilling. So you are theologician. You start this movement, plus our Hare Kṛṣṇa party. And leaders, the propaganda should be that the, at least the priests, who are conducting religious activities, they, the priests and the leaders and the administrators, they must be sinless. Or... Sinless means they should not indulge in these four prohibited principles. Others may do. But the leaders, the political executive, administrators, and the priests who are conducting the church, they must be free from sinful life. Otherwise, there is no question of peace in the society.
Karandhara: He doesn't say specifically. He just said that generally the country is degraded and people have become apathetic, and the morals have reduced. He was referring to things like Watergate, political scandals, and the youth degradation.
Prabhupāda: But why they have degraded? That is to be understood... Not known to them.
Karandhara: Yes. Actually they don't have the scientific analysis. They just have some vague understanding that things are falling apart.
Prabhupāda: Here are the causes. Sinful life. (break)
Prajāpati: So many people now employed in sinful activities, jobs that are to do with sinful life. If we get rid of these sinful activities, what will we find for these people to do to replace their jobs?
Prabhupāda: Do pious activities. Do you mean to say we have to continue sinful activities for their job? (laughter)
Prajāpati: They say like that.
Prabhupāda: No, we shall give engagement.
Prajāpati: Cattle industry, liquor industry, tobacco industry, all these big industries.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them be without industry. Come to us. We shall give them food.
Karandhara: Could be a judge, a high-court judge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means administrator.
Karandhara: Yes. The other one could be the president.
Prabhupāda: Yes, president also administrator. No, one is in the religious order. That is also required. But here we see, persons who are in religious order, they're also addicted to these four sinful, four sinful life. And he's presenting himself as religious.
Prabhupāda: ...So destiny is that we should devote our life for awakening Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This human life is meant for that purpose. By nature's way, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), nature is bringing us. As soon as we become sinful, we are dropped down to suffer the sequence of sinful life in different varieties. Again, just like a man, criminal, is put into the jail, but when his time is finished, again he is made free. Similarly, the cycle of birth and death, dehāntara-prāptiḥ, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one after another, is going on. So the animal life means reaction of sinful life, and upper class of life, demigods, means result of pious life. Two kinds of things are there, sinful and pious, through the cycle of birth is going on. But this human form of life or above human form of life, it is a chance for understanding the real value of life, and therefore for human beings there are guidances, these Vedas, Purāṇas, Vedānta-sūtra.
Prabhupāda: ...So the leaders, the politicians, the king, the brāhmaṇa, they should be very much pure, without any sinful tinge of life. And the pillars of sinful life is illicit sex life and meat-eating and intoxication and gambling. Now, unfortunately, the leaders are teaching people how to enjoy illicit sex life, meat-eating and intoxication. Then how the society can be happy? It is not possible...
Girirāja: ...some of our disciples, it is seems that in this life they did many sinful activities.
Prabhupāda: But because they have surrendered, all sinful activities is counteracted. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Anyone surrenders sincerely to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, immediately he becomes free from all reaction of sinful life. Because he is saved. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: "Don't worry." This is the process.
Prabhupāda: ...Married life, sex life, that is allowed in the śāstra. But not illicit sex. That is not allowed. If one remains sinful, he cannot make any progress of spiritual life. That is not possible. This is bogus, that you remain sinful and at the same time make spiritual progress. That is not possible. Otherwise, why there is distinction of sinful and pious life? You must be pious life. And the basic principle of pious life is this, avoid these four sinful life: illicit sex, intoxication, gambling and meat-eating. They are sinful life. So one cannot make any progress in spiritual life who is habituated to act sinfully. That is not possible.
M. Roost: I am according, but how to understand, how to measure...?
Prabhupāda: This is plain understanding. Just like physician says that "If you eat these things, then you will not be cured." A physician should straightly speak to the patient, "You should not do this. Then you will be cured." If he does not agree, then he will not be cured. It is like that. If you remain sinful, then you cannot make any spiritual progress of life. That is going on. All the swamis, yogis, and... Don't mind. I have seen. They keep them in the sinful life and talk very, very, big, big words. That will not help. Sinful life must be stopped. Then yoga practice will be successful...
Prabhupāda: ...If the enlightened man is living in such a way that he is going to be transferred to the spiritual world, then others will follow. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). At least, there must be a class of men, ideal men, that they are preparing themselves for transferring to the spiritual world. Then people will see that "Here is the ideal man," and they will try to follow. (French) But if people see that "He is also like us. He is also drinking, he is also eating meat, and he is also having illicit sex," then where is the ideal man? Everyone is implicated with these things, sinful life...
Prabhupāda: What meditation? The thing is that here it is stated, "Unless one is free from all sinful activities, he cannot be engaged in My service." And the pillars, according to Vedic, pillars of sinful activities... Just like four pillars. One is this meat-eating, the other is illicit sex, the other is gambling, and the other is intoxication. So unless we break these four pillars of sinful life there is no meaning of meditation or worshiping God. You cannot ignite fire, at the same time pour water on it. So sinful life means destruction of spiritual life. So once you begin spiritual life, and other way you begin sinful life, then how it will be? It is counteracted. There is no progress.
Prabhupāda: ...As supreme God, the supreme controller is not controlled by anyone. I am controlling, but I am being controlled by somebody else. That is God. So therefore we have to admit, we must admit that we are not free. We are controlled. Eh? By superior power or superior controller we are controlled. Therefore our duty is to be controlled according to His desire. So if we agree to be controlled by the Supreme, that is perfect life. And if we do not like to come to be controlled by the supreme, that is sinful life. And this is the perfect knowledge.
Prabhupāda: ...So money has become the whole thing. "Bring money some way or other and enjoy." This is the purport of civilization. They do not care what is God, that human body is meant for God realization. They have no such ideas. "There is nothing after death. So so long I am living, let me enjoy by the tongue, by the genital and by the belly. Use the tongue for eating anything which is palatable, which I like. Never mind what it is. And then genital also. Bring as many women..." This is civilization, modern. There is no question of sinful life or pious life, next life...
Prabhupāda: Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam means Vedic rituals. Śruti means Vedas. It is learned by hearing. Why He decried the Vedic rituals? Sadaya-hĺdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. You are so much compassionate by seeing animals sacrificed. Animal Killing. Sadaya-hĺdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. Ghātam means killing, so He wanted to stop this animal killing, sinful life. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. My Lord, You have appeared now as Lord Buddha, I offer my respectful obeisances unto you.
Prabhupāda: ...My Lord, You have appeared now as Lord Buddha, I offer my respectful obeisances unto you.
Pṛthu Putra: (French)
Prabhupāda: Our... I think picture is there. Lord Buddha's picture.
Yogeśvara: In the Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Not Bhagavad-gītā.
Yogeśvara: In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, back side, the daśāvatāra. (indistinct)
Pṛthu Putra: (Explains in French the picture in Second Canto)
Prabhupāda: He was Hindu in the beginning. Come on. He was Prince, then He become renounced and He was known as Lord Buddha. So Lord Buddha also started His system for stopping animal killing. Lord Jesus also said, "Thou shall not kill." Unfortunately the animal killing is not stopped. We are therefore teaching our followers: no meat-eating, so that if people stop meat-eating, automatically animal killing will be stopped. According to Vedic system, there are four pillars of sinful life, just like this table is on the four pillars. So one pillar is illicit sex, another meat-eating, another intoxication, and another gambling. So at least the brāhmaṇas, the priestly heads of religion, the king and the public leader, they should stop these four sinful activities. The leaders of the society they must be sinless. Then the human society will make nice progress...
Prabhupāda: At present Christian religion is made easy. Christian religion made easy. What is that? Now, first of all Christ has taken out contract that "You go on committing all sinful life. I am guaranteeing you will be saved." Is it not?
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Or...? What is that?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So poor Christ has taken all concern. He will be crucified, and they will enjoy life. This is very easy religion...
Prabhupāda: ...These poor cows, they are giving us milk, the most nutritious food, and we can prepare so many nice nutritious foodstuff. So let them live. And if I want to eat at all, let it die. Then we shall eat. Why kill it? So they have no common sense. And they are leading the sinful life; still, they are very much proud of their civilization. And they are suffering periodical wars, war number one, war number two, war number three. This number will increase. Not only... Without war, thousands of children are being killed within the womb. This is going on. If you kill, then you be killed. This is nature's reaction. You will be killed within the womb. You will never see the sunlight. Again you die, again enter another womb, and again be killed. This has increased in modern society. Even the father, mother does not want to see the child living: "Kill him." And a few days, few years after, we shall kill each other. So they are not afraid of any sinful life. You see? The nature will not tolerate. Kṛṣṇa will not tolerate. God will not tolerate, because God claims, "I am the father of everyone..."
Prabhupāda: ...So, sex life is meant for progeny, not for sense pleasure. Even the animals, dogs, cats, they have a period for sex life and as soon as the female dog is pregnant, no more sex life. In certain months of the year they have sex life, not all the year. So even the dogs they follow regulation and we human being, we do not follow. The dogs have no restriction. The female dogs are naked and they can capture anyone, anywhere, but they do not have unless there are certain period. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in spiritual life restricted regulated sex life, is essential.
Devotee: Religious is automatically regulated sex life?
Prabhupāda: If it is religious life. If in the name of religion it is sinful life, that is another thing. Alright Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. samaḥ sarveṣu, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate. That is the stage of making advancement in devotional life...
Prabhupāda: It is possible at any time provided people take to spiritual life, but they'll not take to it. For example, one of the items of spiritual life is no meat-eating. So do you think this philosophy will be taken by everyone? And this is one of the items of spiritual life, no meat-eating.
Guest (2): Is that a necessary...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Without... If you don't stop meat-eating, you cannot understand what is spiritual life. A sinful life cannot understand what is God, what is devotion. It is not possible.
Guest (2): And is that the same for others...?
Prabhupāda: The sinful, yes. Four items we prohibit our students. They do not indulge. Illicit sex life, meat, fish, egg-eating, intoxication up to cigarette smoking, drinking tea, coffee, and gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. So unless one gives up these four things he cannot understand what is God, what is God's kingdom, what is our business. Nobody can understand.
Madhudviṣa: Sometimes a question is arisen that devotees are working hard to serve Kṛṣṇa, but sometimes they don't feel that they are working in love and devotion. They are doing the work, but sometimes...
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the beginning there is no love. Let him work on the direction of God's representative. (break) Therefore it has been warned, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. The Deity of Viṣṇu, if one thinks, "This is made of stone; this is made of wood; this is made of metal," and spiritual master as ordinary human being, these are hellish considerations. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guruṣu means the spiritual master. Nara-matiḥ, a ordinary human being. And vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. And Vaiṣṇava, a devotee—"Oh, he is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is European Vaiṣṇava. He is this Vaiṣṇava, that..." No. These are forbidden. Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. Spiritual master... They are all transcendental. In... of course, in this country you are introducing new, but in India... Just like we had been at Tirupati, Tirumala. Many thousands of people were coming, and their daily collection is not less than 100,000 rupees. And do you think these people are coming to offer these 100,000 rupees daily to a stone? And the ācāryas established this temple for bluffing these people? Does it mean, their collecting? They do not know the science, rascals. And therefore simply... Sinful life cannot help. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that "One who is killer of animal, he cannot understand the spiritual science..."
Prabhupāda: The body is consider... Just like if you have got high fever, you cannot act your brain.
Hṛdayānanda: You cannot?
Prabhupāda: Act your brain. Similarly, this is also like fever, sinful fever, so you cannot act your brain for understanding higher spiritual matters.
Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: He's saying, "What is sin, then?"
Prabhupāda: That sin you have explained. These are the four principles of sinful life. This can be avoided. Just like these European, American boys. They were also addicted to these sinful activities, but now they have given up, and they are understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness very nicely. Material life means sinful life. Therefore we have to act materially under regulation. Just like a man suffering from some disease, he has to live under the direction of the physician. Otherwise his sufferings will continue.
Guest (1): Swamiji, my main question is although spiritualism is the Absolute Truth, can we not in some way make spiritualism in such a way, modify it in such a way, as to help the common people?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): The masses.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we are doing.
Guest (1): They have been steeped in ignorance for such a long time, it will take a long time to bring them into the fold of spiritualism.
Prabhupāda: No, it has been made easy by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That you don't commit sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and don't commit sinful life, that's all. And sinful life we have given them, no illicit sex—we don't say, "no sex"—no illicit sex, no illicit sex, no meat eating. Suppose... They are not now eating meat, are they unhealthy? They are known now as bright-faced. So no illicit sex, no meat eating, no intoxication, and no gambling. This is avoiding sinful life. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Do you see the result? Do you see the result? Within four, five years how they have advanced...
Prabhupāda: ...So this human life is not meant for imitating the stool-eater hogs. This is in the Bhāgavata. But they have imitated this, "We shall work. Work like hard work, hoglike, and there is no discrimination of food. All sorts of nonsense we shall eat, and in this way we shall get strong and have sex life. Never mind whether he is mother, sister, or daughter. It doesn't matter." This is the modern civilization. And that is warned in the Bhāgavata, "No, this is not life." But this has become actually the life, modern civilized life. Therefore it is called avidya, not education, contra-education. (break) ...says, make life very comfortable. Just produce little food grains, and there are fruits. Even if you don't produce food grain, you can live on fruits and milk. No. The milk source? Cut down their throat, cows, and eat the meat. There is no need of food grain or fruit. This is civilization. And thus becoming duṣkṛtina, all the brain is being utilized for sinful life. Duṣkṛtina means intelligence applied for sinful life. Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious. But their merit has been applied for acting sinfully. Therefore they are called duṣkṛtina. (break) "...by the orders of Christ we shall commit all kinds of sin, and Christ has taken contract. He will take our sin." That's all. Is it not?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...So long people will remain in darkness about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, these things, rubbish things, will go on. I'll find out fault in you; you'll find out fault in me. That's all. Because the basic principle of material civilization is envy. I do not like you; you do not like me. That's all. Envy. Everywhere, individually, nationally, socially, familywise—everyone is envious. That is the material disease. And therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇam (SB 1.1.2). Those who are interested in superfluous religious system, cheating system of religion... Just like the Christians, they say that "Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities."
Trivikrama: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is cheating system. Once Christ advised that you, you should not act sinfully, and then he takes contract for all your sinful life. How cheating it is, directly cheating.
Pañcadraviḍa: Who was cheating?
Prabhupāda: These so-called Christians. They say that "We are very weak. We can not restrain ourself from sinful activities, so we believe in Christ, and he has taken contract for suffering. That's all."
Śrutakīrti: Śrīla Prabhupāda? For breakfast just fruits?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śrutakīrti: Milk?
Prabhupāda: No. You can... Cashew and ginger. And you make, what is called, channa. In the lunch make cheese. Cheese, cheese. Fry it, and make preparation.
Śrutakīrti: Tomato and cheese?
Prabhupāda: Tomato, cheese, potato. Yes. And fried peanuts? And salad, fruit. By force... Communism is going on, by force. It is the result of sinful life.
Paramahaŕsa: They're put into that circumstance.
Prabhupāda: Yes, people are sinful, they will not do nicely, and now, by nature... Just like this child killing. They did it in his previous life. Now he is suffering. He will be killed. The nature's reaction. We are taking sympathy with the child who is being killed, but we do not know that he did the same business. Now he is being killed. That is nature's law.
Guest (1): Did you say you eat meat?
Paramahaṁsa: Wheat, wheat.
Guest (1): Wheat. Ah. Is there any reason why you don't, you prohibit people from eating meat?
Prabhupāda: Because it is sinful. It is sinful. According to Vedic conception, these four things are sinful activities, four pillars. Just like four pillars, the legs of this table, similarly, illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling are the four legs of sinful life.
Madhudviṣa: In India there is no problem with litter. There is no litter problem. No problem about paper and things thrown around because everything that is thrown in the street is immediately taken up by some form of beggar or some form of animal.
Prabhupāda: Municipal sweeper also. (break) Similarly we can go to the place where there is simply pleasing atmosphere. Simply we have to become purified. That is required. But they don't want to be purified, they want to become more entangled in sinful life, illicit sex, meat-eating. That they do not know that "I am entangling myself. Instead of being purified, I am becoming more and more entangled." This is ignorance.
Prabhupāda: ...If it rains heavily during daytime and at night you see the stars, then you should know there will be scarcity of rain. There will be scarcity of rain and scarcity of food grains. Best thing is at night there must be heavy rain, and daytime, there should be sunshine. Then the field will be very fertile.
Hari-śauri: Is the irregularity in the weather and...
Prabhupāda: That is due to sinful life.
Hari-śauri: So if we increase the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement...
Prabhupāda: Then it will be regular. It is nature's punishment. You may not care what is sinful life, but that is recorded. That is foolishness. "I don't care for God, don't care for what is going to happen." That is foolishness. People, lower planetary system, they are like that. In this planet also. In Western countries there are many places. "Don't care for anything, what is sinful life, what is going to happen. Let us enjoy, that's all." This is their philosophy. "Let us enjoy, that's all." Materialistic point of view is like that. They do not know that we are eternal and we are responsible for our activities. That is knowledge. But they have no knowledge. They simply want to enjoy. They do not care for death also. Simply sense gratification. That's all...
Madhudviṣa:
This is from the Bhagavad-gītā. Translation: "Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, whose sinful actions are completely eradicated, and who are freed from the duality of delusion, engage themselves in My service with determination."
Prabhupāda: So this is not very ordinary thing. Pāpam, sinful life... At the present moment people are very, very much addicted to sinful life.
Dr. Copeland: Why?
Prabhupāda: Because they are less intelligent; therefore they don't care for death even. Neither they have got any idea what is going to happen after death. Formerly, people were afraid of committing sin. They knew that "After death, I will have to suffer." Now, at the present moment, the rascals are so daring, they do not care what is sin, what is going to happen next life. They do not care. That means less intelligent.
Sabhāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda, all the devotees on the walk this morning, they are the book distributors.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Sabhāpati: They are the Australian book distributors, all the devotees on the walk this morning.
Prabhupāda: It is a fact that they do not grow fruit trees because people will eat and will not work? Is that the policy? Somebody told me like that, that if there is enough fruit, then people will eat and they will not work.
Amogha: The fruit business would go down also. The fruit stands would not be able to sell much.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Bad policy.
Śrutakīrti: The government does that. On some farmers they will pay them not to grow to keep the price high.
Prabhupāda: Kill animals. Just see the policy. Instead of growing natural food, they will kill animal. Purposefully sinful life.
Śrutakīrti: But they still have to grow food for the animal. They're growing the food, but they give it to the animal.
Prabhupāda: Fruit?
Śrutakīrti: No, the food. They grow food for the animals, but then they kill the animal.
Prabhupāda: Just see. They can grow food both for the animals and for human being. Instead, they are simply growing food for the animals and killing them. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. You sing this before taking prasādam. The tongue is the greatest enemy and greedy. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. For the satisfaction of the tongue they are risking their own life and committing sinful life to suffer later on. Therefore the first-class man's first duty is to çamaḥ, controlling the mind. If one can control the mind, that "If I can live with grains, food, and milk, why shall I kill the ani...?" this is controlling the mind. They cannot control even this small thing. "Live and let live,"—this policy they do not follow. "Live and kill others." "Live at the cost of others."
Lt. Mozee: Again I say I mean no disrespect, but in India, where the religious customs have been followed for centuries upon centuries, we are seeing a, not a return, but we are seeing a drawing away. We are seeing a drawing away from the spiritual world and the spiritual life in today's society.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is due to bad leadership. Otherwise, Indian mass of people, they are fully conscious of God and they try to follow the laws of God, the mass of people. Here even the big, big professor, they do not believe in God, they do not believe in next life. But India, even the poorest man, he knows that "There is God. There is next life. If I commit sinful life I will suffer. If I live piously, then I shall enjoy." Even the low-grade society, social man, he believes it. Still if there is some disagreement, the village people go to the temple for settlement, and the opposite parties will hesitate to speak lies before the temple, still. So in that respect India is still 80 percent religious, 80 percent religious. That is the special privilege of taking birth in India. That is a fact...
Guest (Indian man): How do you advise Indians who are here and who have fallen to some extent in the materialistic world? They did not leave... Basically, they left their homes, most of them, to educate themselves. When they came here, they educated themselves, and they don't want to go back. Basically, they have fallen into the materialistic world. What advice you render them so that they get out of these clutches and go back and serve here or in the country but they should be devotional to the Almighty God?
Prabhupāda: So there is no question of here and there. You can become advanced in spiritual life anywhere if you follow the principles. That we are teaching. We are opening centers all over the world. You take the advantage of our teaching, our books, our center. Then it will be all right. They are following, these Europeans and American boys. They are young boys. They are giving up meat-eating. Do you give up meat-eating? Why Indians, you should learn meat-eating? They are giving up, and you are learning to eat meat. This is the lesson, that these foreigners, they were accustomed to eat meat from the childhood, they are giving up, and you are eating meat. This is the instruction. Indians are drinking. They are giving up drinking. The lessons are already there. There is no question why. The lessons are already there, books are already there, the centers are already there. You learn and make your life purified. Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. When we say, "No meat-eating," it is meant for everyone. Anyone who wants to become first-class man, it is necessary for him. And there is no question of Indian, European, American. You are committing so many sinful lives, and you want to become happy—that is not possible. Now this paper Time is puzzled: "Crime and What to Do?" But they do not know...
Prabhupāda: ...So this material enjoyment, illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating, gambling, one should be free from these water-like things while you are in the fire of spiritual consciousness. Don't bring these things. You cannot go on burning the fire, at the same time adding water. Then it will be useless waste of time. Anartha upaśamam. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam. Bhakti-yogam means anartha, unwanted things, upaśamam, subsiding. This is anartha. Just like we don't eat meat. Are we dying for want of meat? But they have taken it that without eating meat they will die. This is nonsense. And they are maintaining so many slaughterhouses, committing sinful life, only for misunderstanding. They do not see that "Here are some persons. They do not eat meat. They look very bright-faced. Why should I eat meat?..."
Prabhupāda: ...There are 8,400,000 different types of body. So if we do not properly use this human form of body, if we become subjected to sinful life, then we get a different type of body, very—animal life, tree's life, plant's life, aquatic's life, insect life...
Bahulāśva: So first we hear from the guru that Kṛṣṇa is God, and we have faith in that, we chant, and then we come to know.
Prabhupāda: As you become purified, then your faith becomes fixed up with knowledge. Therefore that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam: (BG 7.28) "One who has finished his sinful life, he can become a devotee." Otherwise one cannot. First of all, beginning in faith. Then, by following the process, he becomes completely sinless. Then he, full knowledge. And so long he will be sinful, the things will be not properly manifested. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam.
Prabhupāda: ...In the Kṛṣṇa's life, He's always busy. Kṛṣṇa... You'll never find from the very beginning of His life He's busy killing Putana, Aghasura, Bakasura, and His friends, they are confident. They'll enter into the mouth of Aghasura. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is there. He will kill." This is Vṛndāvana. There is no need and I don't find in Bhāgavata big factory and slaughterhouse, no. Nothing. The whole atmosphere is surcharged with sinful life. How people will be happy? Now they are coming to crimes and hippies and so many things, problems, diplomacy, CIA and what other? So many unnecessary waste of energy, time, and money. Vicious condition. Better give up city. Make Vṛndāvana, like this...
Prabhupāda: We are in the material world means everyone is diseased. (break) māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ, duṣkṛtinaḥ (BG 7.15). This is described. This is the material disease. I explained how they are committing sinful life: slaughterhouse, this liquor house and so many things, simply sinful. And they do not know they are going to suffer again in another body. He's going to be slaughtered next life. "Life for life." You are taking life, so many lives; you have to give so many times life. Take birth and become killed. Take birth and become killed." There is no knowledge.
Prabhupāda: ...Even in India the government doesn’t want that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should go ahead. It is the demonic principle—Kṛṣṇa should be cut down. That is the way of demonic civilization. Stop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now we are preaching, "No illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating." Do you think people like it?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is against this movement. So who is coming to save us? Nobody is coming. Kṛṣṇa is saving. Otherwise it would have been stopped long, long ago. I was thinking that “As soon as I shall propose all these things, immediately these American people will ask me to go back home. Instead of go back to Godhead, "You go back to India." (laughter) So it is Kṛṣṇa's kindness that you, a few boys and girls, have accepted this principle. Otherwise who likes this? Nobody likes. Nobody likes. Lord Zetland flatly said, "Oh, it is impossible." This is the life and soul of the modem civilization. just see the advertisement-sex. You see, illicit sex. Who would like our movement? Nobody likes. What is this picture means? Sex, that's all. So many advertise…, wine advertisement, meat-eating, gambling—everything. The modern life is going on the basis of these four principles of sinful life, and we want to stop it. Nobody likes it. Still, we are selling so many books and people are hearing us…
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, you are giving the real peace formula.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Unless they stop their sinful life, they have to suffer.
Prabhupāda: I am not giving. Kṛṣṇa is giving. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasam sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29). There is... (break) ...formula, if you want to make peaceful the dog society, is it possible?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Dr. Patel: Practice and vairāgya both are necessary.
Prabhupāda: Vairāgya means when you are not addicted to sinful life. That is vairāgya. People have got attachment for sinful activities. (break) ...deve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitaḥ, janayaty aśu vairāgyam. That is the vairāgya way. You cannot practice vairāgya without Vasudeva's shelter.
Prabhupāda: ...So when they produce more wine, then they must sell, and the people must drink. This is going on, one after another. And in Hawaii, Mauritius and in so many other places we see they have produced unnecessary quantity of sugarcane. And then molasses... (aside:) Hare Kĺńṇa. And then wine, and they must be sold.
Devotee (2): So this is sinful activity, then.
Prabhupāda: All sinful activity. Ugra-karma. And if you drink wine, then you must require meat. Otherwise your liver function will be bad. There must be lump of meat. And as soon as wine and meat combine, then you require illicit sex. It is one after another. This is scientific. So we stop immediately: "Stop these four principles." Then one will be free from sinful life. Then he'll understand what is God. Otherwise not possible. A sinful man cannot understand what is God. Why the whole world is godless? On account of the sinful life, they cannot understand.
Devotee (2): So the means of production have to be changed into pious type of...
Prabhupāda: No. If you stop sinful activities, the production will automatically stop. If there is no market for wine, then it will stop automatically. So you stop drinking, and the market for liquor will stop...
Dr. Patel: Places of worship are sacred because of the, because sacred people are living there.
Prabhupāda: Govinda caraṇa kara sau—always think of Govinda caraṇa. Prahlāda Mahārāja also. Mukundaṁ caraṇambujam. Make this business only. And Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī also, he, "Don't execute dharma, neither commit sinful life. Simply think of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet." Kṛṣṇa also says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto...
Prabhupāda: So, the ātmā, that is stated in the Bhāgavata, antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18). Nityasyoktāḥ, nityasyoktāḥ, śarīriṇaḥ. Śarīriṇaḥ means the soul who possesses this body, he is nitya. So, you have to enjoy or suffer the reaction of your activities. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). You have got a type of body on account of your activities.
Indian man: But how ātmā... Suppose I am doing some sins? So how ātmā can be controlling. Suffering...
Prabhupāda: You are doing sin, you have to control.
Kīrtanānanda: What does the Lord mean in Bhagavad-gītā when He says that only the modes of material nature act...
Prabhupāda: You are committing sinful life, so you have to rectify yourself.
Indian man: He is the controller of my body, ātmā is the controller of my...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man: So if I am doing sins, you mean to say, that ātmā is doing because that is his responsibility.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? One time you were explaining that Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was speaking with the Kazi, He convinced him about that the Koran does not actually advocate meat-eating.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. Because the Muslims, they also cannot eat meat unless it is sacrificed in the mosque. There is no recommendation that you purchase from the market and the animal be slaughtered in the slaughterhouse.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some mention not to eat many animals but eat one...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what I... I couldn't remember.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In Arabia they were to eat animal but to save him from so many dangerous and sinful life—he has to kill so many goats—better kill one life, a camel or a cow. Camel is big animal. So if you kill one animal, camel, it is equal to fifty goats.
Cyavana: Children were being born according to God's will.
Prabhupāda: Yes...
Cyavana: It's described in certain parts of...
Prabhupāda: Children will be born.... If you are.... If the child is sinful, then it will go to the womb of a mother who will kill him. That's all. By the will. By the.... That he should be punished. One who has used contraceptive and abortion method, by the will of God he will enter another mother, and the mother will kill him.
Cyavana: But the Bible, it indicates...
Prabhupāda: Now, now, you see, try, understand. You are very good Bible quoter, but try to understand each and everything. Simply you go on quoting, but understand what is that quotation. It is by the will of God. You have committed sinful life by contraceptive method. Now you enter in the womb of another mother and be killed. That is Bible.
Cyavana: So what is described there was not actually God consciousness or...
Prabhupāda: No, it is God consciousness if you understand it, that "I am now being punished by the will of God. I have done sinful activities." That is God conscious.
Guru dāsa: God gives what everyone wants.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guru dāsa: If they desire that, they get that.
Prabhupāda: :You wanted this punishment; therefore you get it.
Puńṭa Kĺńṇa: People are thinking that the punishment is something worse than this, that "This is very nice. We can live here and be happy, and the punishment is in hell."
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Puńṭa Kĺńṇa: "Here we live happily."
Prabhupāda: That.... No, no. That is the nature of the living being, that he is happy by nature because he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So ānanda is nature, but he is finding, trying to find out nature in sinful life. Therefore he is being punished. That he does not know.
Guru dāsa: So that's his ignorance.
Prabhupāda: That is ignorance...
Reporter (1): I may suffer because I have cancer...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you try to understand.
Reporter (1): But cancer is not a sin, you know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is sin. Disease means sin. Unless you commit sinful life, there is no question of suffering.
Reporter (1): Swamiji, could you please throw light on your four-point regulation which you suggest to your disciples?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is pious life. No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, and no gambling.
Reporter (1): No?
Prabhupāda: Gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. So if we want to know God, we must be free from sinful life...
Prabhupāda: Where is the difficulty? Christ's picture is there. Suppose we have got our picture, Kṛṣṇa. So all right, don't believe in Kṛṣṇa. But you have got picture of Christ, and you can see that he is being crucified. The cross is your symbol.
Guest (4): We don't worship the dead Christ.
Prabhupāda: You may not, but Christians.... The Christians, they put the cross, a reminder that "Christ suffered for us." This is the cross. So we became sinful, and the Lord, he suffered for us. We should stop this sinful activity. That is sanity. But "Christ will suffer, he'll be repeatedly crucified, and we shall go on with our nonsense activity." Is that religion?
Guest (3): Well, I agree with you there.
Prabhupāda: So that is the point.
Guest (3): But I have a different thought and feeling.
Prabhupāda: You may have, but we are talking on the principle that if we are so base and fallen down that we go on committing sinful life and "Christ will be crucified; I'll be saved," that way is said, what kind of religion? "One should continually suffer for my sin, and I am free to act sinfully." Is that religion?
Guest (3): Well, we don't believe that Christ continues to suffer.
Prabhupāda: No, but the Christians do that. They are maintaining.... Christ says, "Thou shall not kill," and they are maintaining thousands of killing house, and still they are passing on as Christian.
Guest (3): Well, they're wrong.
Prabhupāda: That is the point.
Prabhupāda: ...There can be very peaceful condition of the whole world. Simply mismanaged by the rascal leaders. Otherwise, people can live very peacefully, eat sumptuously, save time, and there is no necessity of stopping the bare necessities of life. There is arrangement for eating, sleeping, sex life also. But not like fools and rascals. Like sane man. But this modern civilization, it is insane, crazy civilization. There is a little pleasure in sex life—simply sex life, increase sex life, spoiling everything. That is crazy. Eating-eat anything, any nonsense thing, and become a hog. Sleeping-oh, there is no limit, twenty-four hours sleeping if it is possible. Go on, this is going on. Eating, sleeping, mating. And defense—and discover atomic weapon, this weapon, that weapon, and kill innocent persons, unnecessarily, defense. This is going on. But everything can be used properly for peaceful condition, and when you become peaceful, no disturbance, then you can very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and your life becomes successful. This is our program. We don't want to stop anything. How it can be stopped? Whatever is the bare neces.... Just like we have taken sannyāsa. What is that? "Oh, we have no sex life only. Otherwise, we are also eating, we are also sleeping." So that is also stopped in good old age. In old age, if a person like me, at the age of eighty years, if I would have shopped for sex life, does it look very good? Young men, they are allowed. That's all right. But a young..., old man is going to the club and spending for sex life so much money. Therefore younger generation, they're allowed gĺhastha life from twenty-five years to fifty years. That's all. After that, stop sex life. Actually, they want to stop population. Then why it, sex, then? No, they'll have sex life, at the same time, no population, kill the children. What is that? Simply sinful life. They will suffer, continue to suffer. So we want to stop that suffering. These rascals, they do not understand. They think, "Hare Kĺńṇa movement is disturbing." A rascal civilization. So let us try our best...
Prabhupāda: ...If one is intelligent—"The śāstra says, 'Vāsudeva is everything,' so why not take Vāsudeva everything?"—then he gains the result immediately. And if he thinks, "All right, let me see for some time," so he may waste his time, but the point is the same. Point is the same, but he has not developed his faith to such extent. You have to wait. And intelligent person, he says, "Why shall I wait? Let me take finally vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That business is finished." Sa mahātmā. Therefore it is said, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That kind of staunch faith is not very easy. It is for the great personality. Immediately accepts. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Immediately accepts: "Yes." Then sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is not very easily done. That means yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām (BG 7.28). He is completely free from all reaction of sinful life. Puṇya-karmaṇām—he is only engaged in pious activities...
Prabhupāda: That means if the church allows sense gratification without restriction, then they'll attend church. That is the conclusion.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're dictating.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The mass is dictating. Same thing as in...
Prabhupāda: That means, conclusion is, on account of sinful life churches being closed. Not the Pope, but the sinful. Pope said, "You cannot do this sinful," and they are sinful. Therefore they desert their church.
Guest: Is it possible for one to know how many lifetimes it takes to reach spiritual perfection?
Prabhupāda: Immediately, he can take. Provided that he accepts. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Find out this verse. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ.
Hṛdayānanda: "Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear."
Prabhupāda: So, when you are free from sinful life and the reaction of sinful life, then you are immediately on the spiritual platform. So here Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He assures that "You simply surrender unto Me, and I immediately excuse you for all your sinful life." So it can be done in one second. It doesn't take much time. One second. He says "immediately." But we don't want that, that is the difficulty...
Prabhupāda: We came in 1965.
Richard: Eleven years ago. And in a relatively short period of time you've managed to gather around you a great number of people. Has it surprised you or...
Prabhupāda: Yes, I did not expect. When I came here I did not expect, because we have got so many strictures, so I did not expect that here the people will accept my proposal.
Richard: Your proposal?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because our proposal is "No sinful life." No more illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxicants. So I did not expect that anyone will accept this proposal.
Prabhupāda: In our Bhagavad-gītā there is a verse. Find out:
Those who are addicted to sinful life, they cannot understand God. So therefore we have to stop sinful activities. If you keep them in sinful activities, and if you expect that God will be revealed to them, it is not possible.
Prabhupāda: So, we have to teach people how to refrain from sinful activities. Then, when he's pure, then God will reveal. If we keep them in sinful life, at the same time we want to preach them, it will not be possible. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that those who are animal killer, they cannot understand about God. Vinā paśu-ghnāt. So if in the human society unnecessary animal killing is encouraged, he will never be able to understand what is God. The greatest sinful activity, paśu-ghnāt. So in human society, unnecessarily animal killing is going on. So they are entangled in sinful activities; therefore they are unable to understand what is God.
Prabhupāda: ...So on this principle this whole world is merged into sinful activity. (Sanskrit), unnecessary. That is material position-unnecessarily creating trouble. There is no necessity. But on account of ignorance, foolish association, sinful life, more and more and more and more going on. Andhā yathāndhair upagīyamānāḥ. And the deed is encouraged: "Yes, you do this. Enjoy life." What is his enjoyment? If anyone sees slaughterhouse, will he enjoy? Eh? What is...? He visits a slaughterhouse, is it enjoyment? But he takes as enjoyment. (Sanskrit), unnecessary, without any meaning. Mad, just like a madman acts, without any meaning...
Prabhupāda: ...The rascal, foolish, bewildered, he's thinking that he's free. Where is your freedom? Nature is working. If you are free, then why you are dying? If you are free, then do not die. Nobody wants to die. What is the answer?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They will give some nonsense answer.
Prabhupāda: What is that nonsense? In nonsense there must be some sense also.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think they would like both. Like the Christians, they would like to enjoy sinful life and at the same time live forever.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't talk of any sect, we are talking of the general principles.
Prabhupāda: So in the Kali-yuga, this age, so many difficulties, social, political, religious, cultural. So in Kali-yuga the practice of yoga is not possible. It was possible in the Satya-yuga. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum. That is meditation. That was possible in the Satya-yuga. But in Kali-yuga you can do that, the same achievement you can have by hari-kīrtana, by chanting the holy name of the Lord. And factually you'll find our, these disciples, young boys and girls, they are not practicing in a secluded place the yoga system. They are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. And bring any yogi in the world and talk with them and see the comparison. Because that is fashion only; it has no practical value. And here is practical value. Maybe one or two are successful, but mass of people, yoga practice is not recommended. That is not possible to be executed. But if you take to this hari-kīrtana movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, very soon, kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati. You see practically. They are young boys and girls. At least, they have given up the four principles of sinful life and they are practicing, and they will improve. If they stick to the principles, they will improve.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Māyāpura we've seen the little children coming looking for prasādam left over in the rubbish outside.
Rāmeśvara: This is one of the big problems in the world today. They don't know how to dispose of all the paper and garbage that they go through. They are selling so many goods, and then they have to throw away the packages. They don't know how to get rid of the garbage. They try to throw it in the ocean sometimes.
Prabhupāda: And for manufacturing the paper they are cutting so many trees and committing sinful life.
Bali-mardana: Which devotional practice...?
Rāmeśvara: He is asking whether one technique is more important than another.
Prabhupāda: Everything is important. Everything is important. You cannot say, "This is most important; this is less important." Everything is important.
Rāmeśvara: But suppose someone cannot live in our temple. Then we may recommend to him at least chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in your home...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: And take Kṛṣṇa prasādam and read the books.
Prabhupāda: And follow the regulative principles.
Rāmeśvara: And follow as far as possible...
Prabhupāda: Refrain from sinful life. What are the sinful life?
Bali-mardana: No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, and no intoxication.
Rāmeśvara: We find that these activities disturb the body and the mind. They are not compatible or conducive for spiritual practices.
Prabhupāda: ...forest, naked, renounced, eating fruits. But debauch number one. Markaṭa-vairāgya. There are so many vairāgīs. Markaṭa. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said, ei 'ta kali-celā. Here is a disciple of Kali. Nāke tilaka galāi mālā. But has got a tilaka on the forehead and neckbeads on the neck. But is Kali-celā-number one disciple of Kali. You know this song? Kali-celā. These persons who are committing sinful life—don't say anyone (laughs) or publish—there will be trouble. But that's a fact. Those who are living in Vṛndāvana and acting like monkey, they'll get next life—a monkey. To remain in Vṛndāvana, and then next life they will be liberated. In one life all their sinful activities will be punished. Because as soon as animal life is obtained, there is no more further record of the sinful life. The animals cannot make sinful activities more than what is destined by him. But their sinful activity is not taken into account...
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, also Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā at the end that "One who surrenders to Me, he will be delivered from all material reactions and go to (indistinct)." But it is also said that some persons, they are more inclined to surrender than others.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You should surrender; you should request others to surrender. That is service.
Devotee (2): But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it because of their karma, past activity, that...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. One can immediately surrender if he likes. The background has nothing to do. Even the background is sinful, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "I shall save you from reaction of sinful life." Then there is no consideration of their background. You simply surrender. Then it will be solved, everything.
Prabhupāda: ...When the process is there, everyone can surrender, that "I shall act only what is favorable to get Kṛṣṇa's mercy." Yes. "And I shall not act any way which is not favorable to Kṛṣṇa." These first two determinations. And then, "Because I have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, He will give me protection." You believe in it. Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Believe in it. "Now I have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. My all resultant actions of sinful life is finished. I will not come again." In this way.
Guest (1): We are, Śrīla Prabhupāda, small children. You take us with your fingers to the path.
Prabhupāda: The path is open.
Guest (1): Yes. But sometimes we falter in the path.
Prabhupāda: Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66), ahaṁ tvāṁ sarvapāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. It is open for you. It is open secret.
Guest (1): We make mistakes.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But path... Mahat sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes (SB 5.5.2). Everything is there. That is the difficulty. Although everything is there...
Guest (1): But I'm sure that with your protection, Prabhupāda, I'll reach the goal which I have contemplated.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is giving protection. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarvapāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. But still we are not agreeable. Kṛṣṇa says that "I shall give you protection from all reaction of sinful life." But we are not taking that protection. You simply surrender. It is only process.
Prabhupāda: ...From artistic point of view, it should be rewarded by government. And they are prosecuting us. This... What injustice... So many young men, they're exhibiting their talents in this art, and they are trying to harass us. What is this government? Put this matter before this government, that "Just see, your lordships, we are presenting culture, religion, knowledge, philosophy, art, and they are trying to condemn us. Do you think it is all right?" Simply ask. "It was never known in this country. And it is worthy. We are the first-class nation in the world, and we are still giving something more of our talent. Instead of encouraging government help, we have to suffer this harassment. Do you think it is justice?" Just put before him.
Rāmeśvara: It is like you wrote in that letter to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "They did not mind when the children were hippies, taking drugs, having prostitutes. But now that they have joined Hare Kṛṣṇa, now they are kidnapping you. They did not protest formerly when they were engaged in all sinful life. Now they are completely pure. Now they are complaining."
Jagadīśa: Now their children are afraid of sinful life, and they think it's brainwashing.
Prabhupāda: ...You are admitting that 'Your Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra working on the brain.' So the power is there. You have admitted."
Hari-śauri: Yeah, they admit the power.
Prabhupāda: That is... That is some...
Hari-śauri: But we have to show them that it's good.
Prabhupāda: And "You do not know what is good. It is good. We have given up these bad habits, sinful life. It is not... But you have no idea that these are good...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says one who is completely free from sinful life, he can become perfectly a devotee. So these are the four pillars of sinful life. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam (BG 7.28)...
Rāmeśvara: And one thing about government that we see, at least in America, is that each time there is an election the candidates may make so many pledges, "I think I'll go this way."
Prabhupāda: No, election is going on under some rules and regulations, so you can make election under Kṛṣṇa conscious government rules and regulations. That can be done. Legislative assembly, the senators, they must be all first-class brāhmaṇas. Otherwise he cannot be elected. This is should be introduced. Unless one is following the brahminical principles, he cannot be elected. He must give up these four principles of sinful life. He should not accept any salary. Very much learned scholar in Vedic literature. Then he will be elected.
Prabhupāda: When Jagāi-Mādhāi, after injuring Nityānanda, so Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very angry that "I shall kill them!" So at that time Nityānanda begged, "Sir, You have promised not to take weapon in this avatāra. So excuse them." So as soon Nityānanda Prabhu said like that, both the brothers fell down on the feet of Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "Sir. Excuse us. We have done wrong. So please deliver us. We are most sinful." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You are sinful. That is not disqualification. But if you want My āśraya, then you stop this sinful life. No more. Whatever you have done, that's all right. I excuse you. But no more." So they said, āra nare bāp: "Bas, whatever we have done." So this is wanted. But if we continue to take shelter of Caitanya Mahāprabhu or His representative, at the same time continue our sinful activities, that is not desirable.
Yogeśvara: Last summer was dry, but it was not so much dangerous for us. And now it is steady.
Prabhupāda: So there must be rainfall. And if we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, there will be rainfall.
Yogeśvara: That will be true everywhere we go.
Prabhupāda: There'll be rainfall. And then even barren land will be fertile. They do not know this. They are importing water. These rascals, they continue sinful life and import water. There are oceans and seas. Why (chuckling) you scientist cannot bring the water, make cloud and pour water? Where is that science? What do they say about it?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are making it.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Again making. These rascals can promise...
Harikeśa: We have a... Actually we have a very secret preaching center there.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Do cautiously so that everything may not be capsized. If you cannot do... Dhairyāt. Caught dhairyāt tat-tat-karma... Patient. Then?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'This unfortunate situation must be due to my past sinful lives. I have already accepted Śrīla Prabhupāda as my spiritual master, so I desire...' "
Prabhupāda: So encourage him to start. We can help.
Prabhupāda: Striya, sūnā and jīva-hiṁsā, unnecessarily killing animals.
Mr. Koshi: And therefore vegetarianism. Is that why vegetarianism is...?
Prabhupāda: First of all, you try to understand the principles. These are the four principles of sinful life. So you should avoid. Unless... Yeṣām anta gataṁ pāpam. That is the... Unless you are free from sinful activities, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Yeṣām anta gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā (BG 7.28).
Mr. Koshi: What is the meaning of that?
Prabhupāda: Anyone who is completely free from sinful activities, he can understand Kṛṣṇa. If you are engaged in sinful activities, how you will understand Kṛṣṇa? Therefore these things are forbidden. "Don't do this. Understand Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: ...So long we are covered by this material body, we are not nirmala; we are polluted. So one has to give up this designation, bodily concept of life. Tanu-māninā. These words are given. Tanu-māninā. So long one is continuing in the bodily concept of life, it is sinful life, in comparison. This we have to give up, in order to come to the transcendental position. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam. Nirmala (CC Madhya 19.170).
Haṁsadūta: Because Buddhists come and they ask, "If Lord Buddha was an incarnation of Viṣṇu, then why he did not teach about God? Why did he not teach about the soul?" So I always explain to them it's like teachings ABC's and teaching advanced literature. He was teaching ABC. That was required. He did not go into higher subject matter.
Prabhupāda: First of all the Buddha wanted to make them sinless, "Don't kill." And you are not following that even. His business was to stop sinful life. In sinful life one cannot understand God as He is.
| Page Title: | Sinful life (Converations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Rafael |
| Created: | 06 of Dec, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=92, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 92 |