Prabhupāda: I had such experience. I had some experience in my childhood in 1911. I was thirteen years old. There was a riot. So our house was there in Mahātmā Gandhi Road, and all sides Muhammadans. We are simply... The Mulliks and our house are simply some respectable men. Otherwise it was surrounded (surrendered?) by... That is called Kwalabala and Bastik, all Muhammadans, backside fully Muhammadans. So the riot was there, and I went to play. There is a square, Marker(?) Square. So I did not know the riot has taken place. I was coming home. So one of my class friends said that "You do not go to your house. That side is rioting now." So because we are in the Muhammadan quarter, this fighting between two parties, that was going on. It is usual. So I thought it may be like that, that two guṇḍās are fighting. I have seen. One guṇḍā is stabbing the other guṇḍā. I have seen. And they are pickpockets. When you are passing they would... I have seen, he is pickpocketing. (laughter) And they were our neighbor men. So I thought "It must be like that. This is going on." But when I came the crossing of Mahatma Gandhi... At that time Harrison Road it was. Harrison Road and Holi..., Holiday, Halliday Street, yes. So one shop was being plundered. Putamat putamat putamat..." So I was child, a boy. I became... "What is this happening?" In the meantime all, my father, mother, members: "Oh, the child has not come." They became so mad, they came out of home expecting, "Wherefrom the child will come?" So what could I do? When I saw, then I began to run towards our house, and one Muhammadan, he wanted to kill me. He took his lāṭhi and actually... But I passed through some way or other. I was saved. So as soon as I came before our gate they got their life. So without speaking anything I went to the bedroom, and it was in the month of... It is winter. So I... Without saying anything I laid down, wrapping myself with quilt. So that time I was rising: "Is it ended? The riot is ended?" I was asking. I remember. So I would have been killed in that riot. So I have got experience of this riot. That is the first riot in Calcutta, in 1911.
Shop (Conversations 1977)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Allahabad, we are going.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But right now is Kumbhamela in Allahabad, everything's going to be in so much rush, it's going to be hard to do any business.
Prabhupāda: No, businessmen are there all right. I was doing that business. So in my shop they..., visitors used to come there.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That shop. (pause) Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning Rāmeśvara Mahārāja and Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja spoke to me.
Prabhupāda: I have heard that. That's good idea.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good idea? So Hṛdayānanda Swami and Kīrtanānanda Swami are going to Africa. And on the 9th they told me to send a telegram signed by you saying you are sick and you want Brahmānanda to come immediately. So then Kīrtanānanda Swami will personally bring Brahmānanda Swami to India. But they want him to become your permanent secretary again.
Prabhupāda: I have no objection.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You have no objection. Okay. And Hṛdayānanda Swami is ready to manage Africa till the festival.
Prabhupāda: He was experienced, Brahmānanda, in Africa. Where is that Cyavana? He is gone?
Dr. Patel: In my house we spend monthly more than six thousand rupees. I studied for my graduation in the college at fifty rupees a term fee for six months. I'm paying for those small kids going to the family schools seven hundred rupees per month.
Prabhupāda: Our family was taking two kilos and a half milk daily. Two annas per kilo. Ghee was selling, first-class ghee, in Calcutta... Just in front of our house there was a grocer shop. We were purchasing in that tin, but if some required, I would go immediately.
Dr. Patel: Fourteen rupees I think it was. Fourteen rupees is twenty kilos.
Prabhupāda: Less than that. Ten seers.
Dr. Patel: That is twenty kilos.
Trivikrama: Cow ghee?
Prabhupāda: No, buffalo's... Cow ghee we were taking with rice. But it was not available in quantity.
Dr. Patel: Many was so very cheap then. After I graduated myself when I was university scholar, I was given seventy-five rupee scholarship per month and a free bungalow with servants and all these things. It was all right for me till I passed my M.D., seventy-five rupees only.
Prabhupāda: This cow's milk in Bengal, it is compulsory-before beginning your meal, little cow milk, er, ghee mixed with rice and smashed potato. It is very nice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is modern standard, very nice hotel, still good hotel.
Dr. Patel: Maharastrian brāhmaṇas keep very good hotel, still good hotel. They are not as greedy as the Gujaratis. That is a fact.
Prabhupāda: No, they are following principle. Now the Gujarati are also... And Maharastra, as good. This material civilization, meat-eating, has spread like anything. Here we see, signboard: "Beef shop." We have seen.
Dr. Patel: Was it?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: There, there. Not here. They're on that side. Now they are not going to have any more beef now, from first of January. Cows are prohibited. Practically the whole India there will be no cow slaughter. That is why Vinoda Bhave was putting on a fast unto death. Still, he did not...
Jagadīśa: I thought he killed bulls.(?)
Dr. Patel: Bulls I included in cows. In place they will kill the buffaloes. The buffaloes are tamed. I don't know how in the world, sir, nowhere these buffaloes are tamed as it is in India. That means what height of these things Indian people must have reached to tame the wild animals.
Prabhupāda: No, buffaloes are killed.
Guest (2): He is the ultimate. There's nothing more.
Prabhupāda: He is the supreme guru. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). He's the supreme person. So why don't you accept Him as guru? That means you do not want. Then you must be cheated. If gold is available in a gold shop, purchase there. Why do you go to a pan-wala to purchase gold? Will you not be cheated? You do not know where to purchase gold, and still you are..., "Where is guru?" Go there, where gold is sold. And if you do not know even there, then you must be cheated. You do not know where is gold is available. Unfortunately you go to a pan-wala: "Have you got gold?" He'll give you some gold leaf, that's all: "Here is gold." The real thing is that guru is there, Kṛṣṇa is there. And we are presenting. We are not manufacturing. I do not say that I am guru. Our business is to present what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. Therefore I'm guru. Guru is he who speaks Kṛṣṇa's word. That is guru. And if he manufactures, then he is a cheater.
Guest (1): This is the test of guru.
Prabhupāda: This is the test. Guru... The supreme guru is Kṛṣṇa, and anyone canvasses for Kṛṣṇa, he is guru, guru's represent... Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya. That guru will never say that "Kṛṣṇa is dead and gone. I am now guru. I am Kṛṣṇa. I am avatāra." That is rascaldom. So if you want such rascal, then you'll be cheated. (aside:) Who is bringing prasāda? Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Everything is there. Read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. Don't misinterpret. That has killed our culture. They do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā, and they stand: "I am a student of Bhagavad-gītā." This is going on. Even recently I had been in Gandhi's aśrama. It is a desert. He was student of Bhagavad-gītā. Yes. Vinobhaji also never teaches Kṛṣṇa, but he's a Gītā-pravacana. What Gītā-pravacana without Kṛṣṇa? Everyone is doing that, Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. What is that Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: So how many Indians are there?
Rāmeśvara: Altogether in Los Angeles, eight thousand. Plus Indians from San Francisco will come to this concert because she is very popular. Gopāla sent one devotee, Jagat-puruṣa, to manage the ticket selling.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is expert.
Rāmeśvara: And we are trying to print one souvenir book also and take advertisements from local stores and shops. In this way we will also make money.
Prabhupāda: So you have to go back? (break)
Rāmeśvara: They want me to be there to make sure the concert is a success. And Satsvarūpa Mahārāja is coming for Kumbha Mela. So he's planning to stay on with you for the whole month of February and March as secretary.
Prabhupāda: Oh. And you are going to Vṛndāvana?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's going to Kumbha Mela first.
Jagadīśa: ...has business there to be...
Prabhupāda: You are not attending Kumbha Mela. You are going to Delhi from here.
Jagadīśa: I'm thinking about going to Kumbha Mela first, for a couple of days.
Rāmeśvara: Sometimes they use this law against us.
Prabhupāda: Acchā?
Rāmeśvara: We're coming to these shopping centers to sell our books and they say, "We have not invited you. Please go away." It is called the right of the property owner to allow on his property whoever he wants. So these gigantic shopping centers invite the public to buy only from them, not from us. So they restrict us.
Prabhupāda: They are not inviting us.
Rāmeśvara: No.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's all private property.
Rāmeśvara: Our book-selling is going on on the public property, like the airports. But the stores and the shopping centers are privately owned, so it's illegal. Sometimes our men will do it anyway, take a chance in disguise.
Prabhupāda: So they are taking risk for Kṛṣṇa. That is great service. Kṛṣṇārthe 'khila ceṣṭaḥ. That is one of the valuable service—for Kṛṣṇa's sake, all kinds of dangerous position. Somebody's knocking.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll explain this to Rāmeśvara, and if he approves, then... Because now we have just finished hundred thousand Gītār Gāns...
Prabhupāda: If you arrange for prasāda distribution, you become very popular.
Rāmeśvara: None of the tourists who are Westerners ever takes Jagannātha prasādam, do they?
Prabhupāda: No, if there is good prasādam, they'll take.
Gargamuni: Tourists... We'll send in the sweet shops, but...
Prabhupāda: If they understand they are very palatable.
Gargamuni: But that beachfront, if we're on there, we can use that beach as a place to feed thousands of people.
Rāmeśvara: Of course, all the pilgrims that come to Purī for the temple festivals, they'll also come to our temple if it is very big.
Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally.
Rāmeśvara: But what style will it be? It will be a different style of architecture.
Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana? That will be new introduction here.
Hari-śauri: Vṛndāvana's not a very big temple.
Prabhupāda: Not big, but... Bombay.
Hari-śauri: Yes. That's the same, along the same lines at least.
Gargamuni: Shouldn't it be higher than the Purī temple or less?
Prabhupāda: His bodily feature is just like rākṣasa.
Devotees: Oh, yes!
Rāmeśvara: It's ugly! And in Jagannath Purī I saw one shop which was selling pictures of him. One of the pictures he was wearing cosmetics like a woman. His hair was cropped like a woman. It was the most ugly thing I ever saw.
Hari-śauri: He was called the "Universal Mother." A picture of Sai Baba looking like a woman, and then they put "The Universal Mother."
Gargamuni: This Tarun Kanti Ghosh, he wears a ring, Sai Baba ring. He is wearing. We always make joke with him.
Prabhupāda: Acchā?
Gargamuni: "This is not Mahāprabhu. How you can wear this? This is foreign." So he laughs. We make joke with him, "Why you are wearing this ring? This is not in your custom to follow this..."
Prabhupāda: He is hodge-podge. But he has got love for Caitanya. That will save.
Gargamuni: He does.
Rāmeśvara: But this Maharishi, he is capturing American money but he is not using it to spread Indian culture.
Prabhupāda: Religious...(?)
Prabhupāda: Oh, begged from some house.
Hari-śauri: That's what I made out from him. But this boy should be back very soon. The boy that went out to do the shopping should be back very soon. They took a van.
Rāmeśvara: There was one question I had, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You have written in the Third Volume of the First Canto different instructions for the age of Kali, how there'll be compulsory marriage and so on and so on. And you mentioned about the gold standard, that this is very bad, this artificial standard of monetary exchange.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It is very bad.
Rāmeśvara: In the future this is something that we should try to correct.
Prabhupāda: You should introduce coin, real money.
Hari-śauri: Real gold coins. No paper.
Prabhupāda: Anyone has got money... It is fact. And what is this nonsense, keeping some paper and thinking he has got money? How cheating it is going on, from government's side. And therefore artificial inflation. You can print, so the price is increased. Because you haven't got to pay him real money, you print and pay him, and he will ask, "Give me this money. Then I'll supply." "All right, take." You print and pay.
Prabhupāda: If you can make brahmacārī, brahmacārīni separate, each room can accommodate fifteen men. Very high.
Rāmeśvara: You may remember the property in Los Angeles. Right next to the temple there are these groups of stores. There's a Mason Temple. There's the karate place. Then there's a laundromat, then a meat restaurant, barber shop. So we have just bought half of the block.
Prabhupāda: Acchā? Which side?
Rāmeśvara: Furthest away from us. We purchased the laundromat...
Prabhupāda: Mason? Mason?
Rāmeśvara: No. That they will not sell yet. The other side. But including that meat restaurant.
Prabhupāda: Then they have to go?
Rāmeśvara: Well, now we are the landlords. They have got still a lease agreement which we now inherited. So they are paying us rent.
Prabhupāda: The washerman also?
Rāmeśvara: Yes. So we have the choice...
Prabhupāda: And this man. (sic:) karadri?
Hari-śauri: They stick them in a home now.
Prabhupāda: Nothing. And on account of their helplessness, these rascals are enjoying: "Come here in the club, in the shop." Advertise, "Topless, bottomless." This is going on. And they claim to be civilized.
Hari-śauri: Women's liberation.
Prabhupāda: Hm? What does he say?
Bhāgavata: It is all right.
Hari-śauri: You said in that article in the BTG that women's liberation means that they get more exploited.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The giving them bluff that "You become liberated" means "We shall exploit you, young girls." This is the idea behind. Because the karmīs, they want sex, young girls, and they get energy to work. The Europeans, Americans, they work so hard. They get energy from new, new girls. This is psychology, Therefore they work like hogs and dogs. Dog civilization. Hog civilization. Because the hog has no restriction, either mother, sister, or anyone, "Come on." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājām..., kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This civilization is for the hogs, to take energy by sex with mother, sister, and anyone, and work hard. It is stated in the Bhāgavata. I have not manufactured. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). And here is the civilization. Tapo divyam. Be brahmacārī, undergo austerities and rectify your, this conditioned life, birth and death. This is human civilization. Why you are under birth and death? One life remain brahmacārī and solve all the question. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Teach them, these rascals—they are accusing, "brainwashing"—that this is civilization. It is not civilization to work hard like hogs and dogs and have sex enjoyment. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Bhāgavata: Can prajāpatis give birth to different species of animal life from their own bodies?
Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Prajāpatis, humans, they give birth to animals in the beginning.
Prabhupāda: Crocodile. (break) ...topless, is that freedom for the woman? The shop is open from ten to four a.m. I have seen the signboard in Texas. Is that freedom for the woman? They have no means of livelihood, and they come.
Satsvarūpa: But those women who advocate woman's liberation, they also say that that is not freedom for women, that the men are using the women.
Prabhupāda: Not only that, I have seen that if one woman is speaking... He (she) was sitting. I am going. "Oh, she has got a husband." Immediately I studied all this, this happening of her life. She was... She became very surprised that he's (she's), her friend had a husband.
Gurukṛpa: Thing is that the marriages are simply based on sex. Therefore the marriages don't last long.
Prabhupāda: That means they want permanent husband. That is their heart's desire, but no husband. Is that civilization? And here the father's duty is that "Before she attains puberty, let me find out husband, suitable." This is civilization. "And she was under my care, I give in charity to a suitable boy: 'My dear boy, you take charge of this girl. I give you some dowry and decorate that girl. Be happy.' "
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be punished. That is the duty of the king. You follow any bona fide religion; you get all protection. But you don't follow; you must be chastised. That is king's duty. A king has no objection whether you are following Christian method or Hindu method. It doesn't matter. But you must have some religion. If you have no religion, then you are animal. You must be chastised. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Religion means you believe in God and love Him. That's all, three words, religion. "You believe in God" means know God, what is God. And love Him. That's all. This is religion. So it doesn't matter whether you understand God through Christian method or Hindu method. But you love God and you abide by the orders of God. Then you are religious. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means, religion means, the words of God. So you must know what is God, and you must know what does He say. Then you are religious. It doesn't matter what it is, Christian and Hindu. Gold is gold. Whether you purchase it from a Muhammadan shop or Hindu shop or Christian shop, it doesn't matter. You must get gold. That's all. So whether you have got God? If you have got some fictitious God, then you must learn what is God. What is that? You do not know God, so you must learn what is God. If you refuse to learn, then you must be punished. And if you know God, then it is all right. If you do not know, then you must learn. If you refuse to learn, must be punished. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, in Muhammadan country also, there is dress like this. They are called peet.(?)
Pṛthu-putra: Yes. They have these big robes. When they go to the mosque, they put on the robes. In Cairo there is ten thousand mosques. It's incredible. Ten thousand mosques.
Prabhupāda: They're religious.
Pṛthu-putra: Yes. And they come in for the prayer five times a day. They give up immediately whatever they are doing. I saw myself in barber shop, one barber he was getting... (break)
Prabhupāda: To present your case. Comparative study means impartially make comparison. There is no knowledge of God in there. They're all bogus. You cannot say that. But actually they... What do they know about God? They have simply a vague idea. So what is the use of comparison. Then you have to give your judgment—"It is all bogus." That they will not like to hear. But actually that is the position. What complain? What do they know about God? Simply they have got some idea, the Christianity, Muhammadanism, Hind..., everyone. Even Hinduism, they do not know. Therefore they worship so many demigods and ultimately they make nirākāra. Nobody knows God. This is the, perhaps, first time in the history of the world that we are presenting, "Here is God." Here is God. Nobody presented, neither they know it.
Gargamuni: That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: To know about Kṛṣṇa. It is not also difficult. Science of Kṛṣṇa is there, Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa speaks Himself. So to know the science of Kṛṣṇa is also not difficult. But because we are unfortunate, we go to rascal, and they interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a rascaldom way, and we are missing. So you should be very careful not to go to a rascal. Then your mission will be successful. If you want to purchase gold, you must go to a shop where actually gold is purchased, gold. If you do not know, then you'll be cheated. That is not also very difficult. That I have repeatedly said. Those who are interpreting in their own way, Bhagavad-gītā, he's a rascal; he's not guru. (loud kīrtana in background) As soon as he says an interpretation, "I think like this," you reject that. Why should we think like that? You should preach what Kṛṣṇa says. Then you are right. Why should you say something which Kṛṣṇa does not say? Then you are misguided. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. He's not kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā. So he's cheating. That is going on. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and these rascals say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa person." So he's a rascal. He's taking Kṛṣṇa's book and preaching against it. So what will be benefit if you go to such a rascal? Therefore there is no difference between śikṣā-guru and dīkṣā-guru because if he's actually guru, he'll not say anything which Kṛṣṇa has not spoken. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. So guru is that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become a guru." And what is the function of the guru? Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. That is there. You haven't got to manufacture any instruction. Whatever is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, you say. You try to convince him with logic, with philosophy, with your knowledge, same thing, not philosophy. That is intelligence. And suppose Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Before that, Kṛṣṇa has described everything, why you should surrender to Kṛṣṇa. At last He says, "You surrender to Me." So there is no difficulty. Immediately Kṛṣṇa does not say, "You surrender to Me." But after describing everything—karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, so many things, politics, sociology, religion, everything—at last He says that "This is the most confidential part. You surrender unto Me." So one who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, how he can become guru? He's a cheater. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128).
Gargamuni: Most of these bungalows here are offices. Government offices.
Prabhupāda: That I said. They are living very comfortably, and the citizens... We have seen the other day, Cuttack, the marwan (?) shop, congested.
Gurukṛpā: Dirty.
Prabhupāda: Dirty. Actually they are earning for them. Taxation. They have got law, and they are advertising...
Satsvarūpa: "Don't cheat on your tax."
Prabhupāda: "Don't cheat..."
Satsvarūpa: "Or you'll be persecuted."
Prabhupāda: Who is cheating? They're cheating. Just see. They are working hard; they are cheating. And they, by taxation getting money and living very comfortable, they are not cheating.
Gargamuni: They are greater cheaters.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to stock huge stock in Calcutta. Burma Sale. And new tin, if you exchange the container, then six annas less. Not very costly. Of course, in those days it was costly, taking consideration of the purchasing power of money. Four rupees, I remember, a few annas. My father did not like to purchase anything retail. For his daily necessity he'll purchase, he would purchase potato, one bag. So one bag means, maybe, one rupee, eight annas. (laughs) One anna per seer, kilo, I have purchased. Rice, fifteen mounds he will purchase. And what is the price? Three rupees, four annas. First-class rice. Coal, this coal, coke. Five annas per mound, purchase one cart load, fifteen mounds. The other day I was calculating. My father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees per month in those days. And taking gold standard, my mother was purchasing gold from my cousin—he has gold shop-twenty rupees per tolā, first-class gold. Now it is six hundred rupees per tolā. (break) ...in those days thirty rupees per month. For thirty rupees, clerical staff, if you increase thirty times, how much it comes?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nine hundred.
Prabhupāda: Nine hundred rupees. So where the clerk is getting nine hundred rupees?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is upper middle class.
Prabhupāda: When I had to go that Indian quarter in Johannesburg, at least ten miles by car through the darkness.
Brahmānanda: The Indian quarters are far off.
Prabhupāda: Still, they're prosperous. They have got car. They have got business. They have got factories. Although they are harassed in so many ways, still they are prosperous. They have got their shops and business house in Johannesburg, and they cannot remain there. They must go back. So that was a failure of Gandhi. Gandhi for twenty years agitated. General Smuts, he was the head at that time. And he was beaten. He was so much troubled. Once upon a time Gandhi was captured and beat so severely that he was going to die immediately. Some English South African friend, he saved him. So Gandhi's life from this side is a failure. He could not achieve any success there. Then he thought that "I shall drive these Englishmen from my country." He came here in 1917.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gandhi was born in...?
Prabhupāda: Gandhi is a Gujarati.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he went to South Africa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, up to one o'clock, two o'clock, he was engaged only with his pūjā, my father. He was going late, at twelve o'clock, to bed. Then he was to... He used to rise little late, at about seven, eight. Then taking bath, sometimes purchasing. Then from ten o'clock to one o'clock he was engaged in pūjā. Then he would take his lunch and go to business. And in the business shop he was taking little rest for one hour. And he'd come from business at ten o'clock at night, and then again pūjā. Regularly. Actually his business was pūjā. For livelihood he was...
Hari-śauri: Just doing some business.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: We were sleeping, father was doing ārati—"ding ding ding ding, ding."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You heard the bell.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Then he would take his night dinner and—not dinner. Some puris or paraṭā. He was also fond of this puffed rice. In later age he was simply taking puffed rice and milk. So, anyway, pūjā was his main business.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I found that our devotees who engage in business, they become a little spiritually weakened because we're not that advanced yet.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So, Satsvarūpa, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, you have said?
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: He's also. He has also pointed out... So altogether. Pros and cons.
Rāmeśvara: One point that was felt, not the specific defect, but a very general point, is that this magazine is being distributed by the hundreds of thousands to very ordinary people who go shopping in stores, housewives and so on.
Prabhupāda: No, still, we cannot make it a shopkeeper's magazine.
Rāmeśvara: No, of course, but the tone of the magazine, we felt, should be such that they can also feel that it is...
Prabhupāda: They may not feel. That cannot be.
Rāmeśvara: That is their thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Gold must be presented as gold. One may not be able to purchase. You cannot... To sell, you cannot make, adulterate gold with iron.
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is not.
Rāmeśvara: What about the idea that "You do not have to move into a temple, give up your family and everything, but you can actually chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in your own home," that idea that "It is available to you..."
Prabhupāda: No, that chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa does not mean whimsical.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three dozen men look at one woman, same business.
Bali-mardana: And they make big literatures, magazines, everywhere, all over the streets. They put them in the street...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The big thing now in America, the most popular shop, is called "Adult Books." "Adult Bookshop."
Hari-śauri: "Adult cinema," "adult this," "adult that."
Prabhupāda: Topless, bottomless. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham, tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Kṛpaṇa. The rascals. Kṛpaṇa means non-brāhmaṇa, without any spiritual knowledge. They are never satisfied, the vagina business. Tṛpyanti neha kṛp—although it is followed by so much miserable condition—bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ. One who is dhīra, sober, he tolerates little itching sensation: "What this nonsense?" And if you practice toleration, there will be no more. Finished. You become liberated. Therefore, from the very beginning of life, childhood, this teach him, that "Don't be a vagina-smelling animal." Brahmacārī. Brahmacārī guru-gṛhe vasan dāntaḥ. To learn how to control the senses, that is brahmacārī. Where is that civilization? So establish. Give them food. Give them shelter. Give them knowledge. That is para-upakāra, doing welfare to others. But don't be entangled in vagina civilization. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham (SB 7.9.45). It is most abominable civilization, tuccham, condemned civilization.
Bali-mardana: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Guest (1): But that all has vanished now. That plan has failed now completely.
Prabhupāda: Not failed. Another man will come. Because the unemployment is there. Practically, when we were boys, children, we were purchasing mustard oil, eight annas for two-half, two-half only, kilo, first-class. In Calcutta, Kanpur mustard oil. So my father would give me eight annas. I shall go to the shop and purchase. Now that quality, even taking it..., he's now selling thirteen rupees per kilo. Will the change of government bring this thirteen rupees to three annas? Then what is the benefit? The same stool, this side or that side. People are not going to get any relief by this change of government. So we are not concerned about thirteen rupees or three annas or... Some way or other, people are getting their things. That's all right. But the real loss is to remain in animal mentality and forget the aim of life. That is the real loss. Kṛṣṇa says plainly,
- aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā
- dharmasyāsya parantapa
- aprāpya māṁ nivartante
- mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani
- (BG 9.3)
"This Bhagavad-gītā what I am speaking, if one is not interested to hear it or to take it, then result will be he'll not get Me." "So what is loss if I don't get You?" No, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani: "Then go again to the cycle of birth and death." That's it. That is nature's law. If my next life I become a worm, then it will take millions of years to evolve, again come to the human standard. How I am lost. That they do not know. It is clearly said. Mām aprāpya: "By not getting Me." "So what is loss if I don't get Kṛṣṇa?" No, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. That you cannot check. You have to die. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to accept another body. Then you go on. Why this human form of life should be lost in this way? So at least to try to give this knowledge to the people in general is para-upakāra. This is para-upakāra. And that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. India can especially do it.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And then go to hell. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So after jumping, when this body is finished, he is going to accept another body offered by nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Rascals, they do not know how nature is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Making plan and wasting time, wasting their valuable life. At least, this institution which we have started to give this enlightenment, they must be maintained in India in a first-class standard, that at least some intelligent persons can take advantage. They are all fools, rascals. They cannot take. All the duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. That is already described. Narādhamas will not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But there are persons who are not narādhama. For them there must be. Diamond shop is not for everyone, but there are some persons who can purchase diamonds. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). It is not meant for everyone. So this is India's culture. At least, these men should be conscientious that "Let this Bhagavad-gītā culture be maintained in pure form." There is cultural department government. They are sending dancing party. You see. Real culture. And to make show they will pose themselves as great student of Bhagavad-gītā. So we are making alone a little tiny effort, but it is being appreciated all over the world. That is our encouragement. Our books, our philosophy, our religion, America has accepted: "Yes, it is Indian. Enough." (?) It is not sentiment.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Cow protection protects us from so many infectious disease.
Dr. Sharma: Even the cows, they have habit to take the leaves along the banks of the river. The iodine content of the grass is so high. It has got iodine in that. So if you smear cow dung on the floor... It is said it is an obnoxious thing. There is tincture of iodine sold in the shops (indistinct). It is most unfortunate that we do not appreciate, the nature itself is giving us aids.
Prabhupāda: We take it seriously because Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is our authority. He says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya: "You must give protection to the cows." This is authority.
Dr. Sharma: And the proper facility appears in the rights and democratic (indistinct). But we have a right to live on this planet. Why should we (indistinct) the right of another man?
Prabhupāda: They are... They are... They are described in the Bhāgavata, pāpinaḥ. Those who are killing other animals for maintaining his own body, they are very, very sinful. Very, very sinful. Therefore untouchable. According to Vedic civilization, the animal-killers, mlecchas, they are untouchable. They are so sinful.
Dr. Sharma: They talk about killing of animals for wants of survival. Darwin's case has been brought in, put in, survival, struggle for existence. I mean to have a talk with Dr. Svarūpa. Even the key of the evolution theory by Darwin, he is not feeling itself. It has lots of...
Prabhupāda: He has described in his book, Darwinism. What? What you have described?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But as soon as there is restriction, that means, "Don't do it." Otherwise naturally they have got sex desire. What is the use of giving shastric injunction? That means to control him. The meat-eating... So everyone has got tendency to eat meat, but why śāstra should agree? Restriction means stop. The government's opening liquor shop—so much restriction in a heavy duty. The government charges excise duty. The liquor is produced, utmost, one rupee, eight annas, per gallon. This I know. I know. And government charges excise duty, sixty rupees. So it becomes sixty-one rupees spoiled. Then they have got to make profit. Huge profit government... They haven't got to do anything. The liquor manufacturer, he has to maintain the establishment, and everything he has to do. But when the actual liquor comes, it is there. This is the working system. The excise inspector is there. So unless the... When he takes liquor out of stock, that excise inspector shall come. He has his own key, just like bank, such custody. So in this way... And you have to pay duty first. Suppose stock is there, liquor, hundred gallons, say, thousand gallons. If you want to take ten gallons, so the excise inspector will see whether you have paid duty for hundred gallons. Then you'll be allowed to. So government, for nothing, has... They make huge profit. This is Kali-yuga government. They think that "To condone these are very common practice. Let them be drunk. Let them drink." They encourage them. And government means big ministers, secretaries. They get the profit and divide amongst themselves. So who cares for public? Similarly cloth. What is the cost of one...? One rupee per pound. But if you weigh one cloth, what is the weight? Not even one pound. And they charge twenty rupees.
Prabhupāda: This tīrtha-sthāna, this is recommended. General public is recommended to go to the tīrtha-sthāna so that he may have some spiritual atmosphere, saintly person. If somebody thinks that tīrtha-sthāna means—just like this Hrishikesh—to take bath in the Ganges and go away, that is also good, but that is not the purpose. Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile. In every pilgrim, pilgrimage, there is Gaṅgā, there is Yamunā. At least in India we have got so many holy places on the bank of the pious rivers. But if we take simply the advantage of the pious river, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile, but we don't care for the persons who are living there, very experienced, spiritually advanced persons, then we remain animals. "So we have gone to such holy place. I have taken bath in the Ganges and Yamunā. Bas. My business is finished." Then go to the shop, purchase some plate, toys, go back home. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).
Indian man (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Janeṣu abhijñeṣu. Sādhu means one who is in the knowledge. Otherwise anyone can become a sādhu by changing the dress.
Indian man (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: A sādhu... The description of sādhu is given in the śāstra, titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ... Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ... (SB 3.25.21).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Suhṛdaḥ.
Prabhupāda: All of a sudden rice has increased in 1942 by Churchill's artificial increasing his bribe to recruit soldiers. I have seen. Within two hours the price of rice, from six rupees it came to fifty rupees.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Completely artificial.
Prabhupāda: I was in the grocer's shop purchasing, and all of a sudden the grocer says, "No, no, I am not going to sell any more." He got some information. So that time, six rupees per mound, first class...
Bhavānanda: Mound.
Prabhupāda: Per mound. Very first class rice. So he was not going to sell. A few hours after, I went to purchase-fifty rupees. From six rupees. Government appointed agents to purchase it and stock it. So people, being harassed, they'll come to military. This was Churchill's...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those British were very clever.
Prabhupāda: Artificially created a famine in India. I have seen.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Bon Mahārāja was getting seven hundred rupees monthly. That's amazing. Your Guru Mahārāja had to send the money from India to the West. We... You're bringing the money, but for Bon Mahārāja he had to send the money the other way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's come in India. This new prime minister, he still says, "Our goal is," I think, "twelve million sterilizations this year," and he's holding Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: A horrible position. People have lost their freedom, their culture, spiritual life. Here so much care is taken for children, and they are so opulent. They are fully opulent and spending money lavishly for the welfare of the child. And they are spending money lavishly in the hotels, in the brothels, in slaughterhouse, the liquor shop, and kill. And this is going on as civilization.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't understand at all how to be happy.
Prabhupāda: Most uncivilized. Most uncivilized. I have described to you, "two-legged animals."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dvi-pāda-paśu.
Prabhupāda: And this cannot allow, discussion.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: It is civilization of two-legged animals. They will say now they are taking pleasure. Is there any guarantee that if one has got two children, the government will take care of everything? Two children or three children or hundred children, the government is not able to guarantee. Why this humbug?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Government cannot... This government cannot guarantee anything. They have no power.
Prabhupāda: England, nonsense number one. Worst false prestige, England. In that respect, other countries are better. They had a British Empire. They are still puffed up. And they will stay there to continue British Empire. Now they are earning money for eating, showing British Parliament House. Now there is no business.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They make money by tour of the Parliament House.
Prabhupāda: "Shopkeepers' nation." The Parliament has become a shop. Artificially they're maintaining an atmosphere of aristocracy. There is not... I talked with some of their Lords. Artificial. The have lost all prestige. Still, "I belong to the Lords' House." The priestly order, the Lord family, I talked with them. Simply artificial.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually you gave it up as useless. To talk with those priestly orders, I remember, you concluded, "This is a waste of time." They're not at all priestly.
Prabhupāda: They have no intelligence. Anyway, do something.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I want to clarify a point. The other day I was discussing with this Professor Kundu...
Prabhupāda: Professor Kundu is a famous man, I think.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes, he's the director. He works on the nature of consciousness. He has great interest in Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Was he in Scottish Churches College?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I never know his background.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the East Village.
Prabhupāda: No gentleman can live. So niggardly. The shops, the neighborhood, the area, all...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's where you went to begin the movement.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I did not select that. Unknowingly I was thrown. I did not know which quarter is good way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who showed you that area?
Prabhupāda: Mukunda. I asked him that "Find out some upper class...." He found out that 26 Second Avenue. (laughs) I did not know. That's all. Anyone...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Humble beginning.
Prabhupāda: The landlord took advantage. He was receiving rent, eighty-nine rupees or eighty rupees. He charge me 125. And another room, he was getting fifty. So he charged me seventy-five. Little room.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dollars.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes, dollars. Eighty and fifty, 130. He charged me two hundred.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like in San Francisco, that same kind of place we got. So many young people were there, Haight Street, Haight-Ashbury. Now those two places have become ghettoes practically.
Prabhupāda: Dangerous.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, very dangerous. No more young people moving about, no more nice shops. Simply very dangerous.
Prabhupāda: Negroes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people with drugs, taking...
Prabhupāda: Only Negroes. I was going one place to another, underground. Not bad. They used to say "Poor man's transport." Underground?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Subway. But everybody uses it. You'll see even big men use it. Very quick, cheap.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You would ride alone in the subways? You would be alone, riding?
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Who are these men? I was loitering. Yes. "Let me take this train. Let me see where it goes." Like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you ever go to the Bronx?
Prabhupāda: Hm. I was sitting alone on the New York house.
Prabhupāda: Without spices, Indians should not cook.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they won't digest it either.
Prabhupāda: You'll be surprised how what quantity of spices toward(?) Indians. There is a Calcutta wholesale market of spices. They... Everywhere, not Calcutta... Chili, they are sold in big, big bag. We have seen in Hyderabad a spice shop, chili, large shop. And amongst the spices, the chili is most favorable.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they like it very much. You also use it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. And there are so many spices.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The spice merchants are usually pious men who become members, I have found. In any city...
Prabhupāda: They have got money.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Very often the Marwaris, they are in that...
Prabhupāda: Gujarati.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Gujarati, yeah, Gujarat. In Bombay there is a big Bombay Tri(?). Pañcadraviḍa Swami, that was his special area. He would go down there, huge spice area.
Prabhupāda: There is a special name of that place. Everyone, every poor man or rich man, must use quantity of spice.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Seeing that the... Lord Caitanya did not let them escape so easily, seeing that the books would be very interesting, he requested both standing orders and several small books. Before leaving the city, I went to two international book shops. One book shop bought several books, and the other shop, an enterprise, wanted to translate two of your books into Yugoslavian language."
Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "One bookshop bought several books, and the other shop, an enterprise, wanted to translate two of your books into Yugoslavian language."
Prabhupāda: What is that book?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Gugalana(?), one of the few cities which had a theological seminary, was overpowered..." He doesn't say which one.
Prabhupāda: So make arrangement immediately. We shall allow them to translate and publish.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Gugalana, one of the few..." (break)
Prabhupāda: And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is going, what is called, strong.
Prabhupāda: Has he come with some news?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one knows, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: How they'll do? They have no asset. Engrossed with bogus things, cheating. That was my ambition. You have seen that Delhi shop? He was preparing first-class ghee, and all, hundred... So we are giving the real spiritual life. Automatically there is response. Customers will come. And (indistinct). And you can cheat somebody. (pause)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Śyāmasundara Deity in temple today was beautiful.
Prabhupāda: That Deity is very, very nice, Śyāmasundara. Yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you see that Deity, are you... Do you call it Śyāmasundara or Govinda?
Prabhupāda: And Śyāmasundara is good name.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More appropriate.
Prabhupāda: Nitāi-Gaura, Rādhā-Śyāma, Jaya Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. (laughter) That includes all our Deities. Nitāi-Gaura, Rādhā-Śyāma, Jaya Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. The "jaya" word is in the middle with this "Jaya, Haribol."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya is very auspicious.
Prabhupāda: I don't think there is any other temple in India, in this quarter... I can say, in India... (end)
Prabhupāda: No. Here they eat meat very secretive, some.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very secretive?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Openly they'll never.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it's hard to even find a butcher shop here.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. In Mathurā there is slaughterhouse.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow! Government allowed. The government.
Prabhupāda: I do not know whether it is stopped or not, but formerly. In Bangladesh, fish you can get very cheap. It is... It is water. You can... Rivers.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So many rivers.
Prabhupāda: And especially for (indistinct), the branch of Ganges, it is full of fish, hilsa fish, very famous. You know hilsa fish?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I've heard you talk about it previously.
Prabhupāda: It is full of oil.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Very palatable for the fish-eaters. Bengalis, they are too much fond of fish-eating. They don't even... Sometimes people say, "Fish-eating is nonvegetarian."
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw him bring it ready.
Devotee (1): There's one bottle here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, Optrix, Optrex.
Prabhupāda: But that is another thing. Again the same. In any medical shop you can get eye-washing cup. I wanted...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, so far, they haven't brought that. That's been asked. They are going...
Prabhupāda: So you have asked another foolish?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I mean, for this and for that, I asked Akṣayānanda Mahārāja, the president of the temple. There's no higher way of getting unless I go personally. They are still out. They haven't come back.
Prabhupāda: But you have sent. For Visanchand he went. Nobody heard that I wanted from Visanchand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Nobody heard that I wanted from Visanchand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seth Visanchand? Oh, yeah, I heard. I told him...
Prabhupāda: But it is not useful. You heard it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: But it is not useful.
Prabhupāda: Then you did not understand.
Bhakti-caitanya: Prabhupāda says that he has not said to get from Visanchand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has not said to get from Visanchand. I only heard that.
Prabhupāda: The... I wanted from Visanchand because he has got this. And I wanted that washing glass from the market. It can be had from any medical shop.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So for that, the man has gone out to get that.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but water has come from somebody, somebody else.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I'll try to find out. This may have come from Seth Visanchand. I sent the boy to ask the man who brought it where he got it from.
Prabhupāda: So ask him wherefrom he has brought.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I just sent that boy to (indistinct) to find out where he brought it from.
Prabhupāda: Anyway...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As soon as he came in the door, I said, "Where is this coming from?" He said, "It's coming from Ramesh." I said, "That's all right, but where did Ramesh get it from?" He said, "I don't know." He's the vice president.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have tried. I can go myself to Seth.
Prabhupāda: So they gave me a free ticket, and the government allowed me to take with me, forty rupees. In this state, condition, I started for New York. You see? No friend, no secre..., no hotel, nothing, arrangement. This was the beginning. Then I went there. So I do not know how it happened. Now we have got forty crores. It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy. I never expected that my books will be sold and appreciated all over the world. So that is being done. People are appreciating the whole movement. Even in our country our government, it has come to their notice, cabinet ministers. So my point of view was that in Delhi there is a confectioner's shop. You had been in Delhi?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you go to Delhi sometimes?
Mr. Myer: Yes, I will...
Prabhupāda: There is a street, Loiya Bazaar. So there is a Punjabi's shop. He makes all preparation, first-class ghee. So whenever I used to pass that area, at least fifty customers are waiting. Somebody wanting something, somebody wanting something. That gave me the impression that if you have goods genuine, customer will come. If your dealing is straightforward and the goods are nice. So, so many religious institution and missionary and other, they are all over the world. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, substantial, genuine, so why this will not be appreciated if we present properly? So I fought on that, and some way or other it is successful.
Mr. Myer: Our new prime minister is now very much appreciating the movement, especially about Prabhupāda. He may like to visit. He says he does not want these foreign industries. He wants people to have religious... And he is very big sannyāsī himself. That is why he is...
Prabhupāda: Who?
Prabhupāda: It will be so attractive.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "These trailers could be used to distribute Your Divine Grace's books in many new, inaccessible places. I would like to know if this meets with your kind approval."
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We have a model of saṁsāra on display in our shop window, and all day long we are getting dozens of curious passersby from the street who inquire submissively and listen attentively to the philosophy. I remember Your Divine Grace telling me emphatically..."
Prabhupāda: Try to sell them Bhagavad-gītā, which explains.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "I remember in Bombay in 1974 that this would make our preaching successful all over the world."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Now I am practically..."
Prabhupāda: Without reading books they'll understand the philosophy. That is the advantage. Mass of people, without education, they will understand the philosophy.
Bhāgavatāśraya: It's like the circus.
Yaśomatīnandana: This is going to be very profitable business.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the shop it sells for four rupees, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Yaśomatīnandana: We'll sell it for two rupees to our men.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: One-fifty. I've sent you a newsletter to all the temples.
Yaśomatīnandana: We'll sell for two rupees.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We want bulk orders.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How much do they cost?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The BBT cost I'll tell you later.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These are all from your books, and this also advertises your books because on the back it's written, "Painting from..."
Prabhupāda: Such and such book.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I thought that by coming out with these Diwali cards, each temple will make an extra thirty, forty thousand per year, because the BBT will make about a lakh a year extra. It's new income. This is a little start.
Prabhupāda: Yaśomatīnandana will order that set. You can sell.
Prabhupāda: Who cares for this scientist?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The Nobel Prize-winner in synthesizing amino acids..."
Prabhupāda: Nobel Prize-winner, another rascal has given him a Nobel Prize. He's a rascal; another rascal has given. Suri sākṣī mātāla.(?) In the liquor house the witness is the drunkard. What is value of the witness of a drunkard? Do you know suri sākṣī mātāla? There is some incident within the liquor shop, and the proprietor of the liquor shop has brought some witnesses. All of them are drunkards. (laughter) So what is value of this? Suri sākṣī mātāla. As soon as you are drunkard, immediately they are rejected. Surā dekhi nā saya nā.(?) The proprietor of the liquor shop has no more witness than the drunkard.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says here that "These great Nobel Prize-winners have made protoplasm from inert substances simulating the conditions that prevailed in the primitive atmosphere of the earth. Do they know that human egg and sperm cells can be fertilized in test tubes and the fetus developed in an artificial womb or in the womb of a hired woman? Among animals that evolved on this planet..."
Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit? There are millions of wombs. Why you should hire? If there is scarcity of womb, then we can hire. You rascal, you hire. You do not know. We see, without hiring there are millions of wombs, and they are producing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that they can do it.
Sac-cid-ānanda: He has medical store.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't advise it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I don't think it's a good idea to do. Because I don't see why we don't consult all twenty thousand doctors. I mean, why is he... Sac-cid-ānanda just happened to be... He goes to the shop and he sees the man's shop. Why not wait for Dr. Ghosh or call Dr. Ghosh here? I mean, what I'm trying to say is that if I go to Mathurā, I'll also pass many medical shops, so I could consult any one of those men, probably, just as well.
Sac-cid-ānanda: That's a fact.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact, huh.
Prabhupāda: They have got good practice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because Vṛndāvana is small, so everyone has to go to whoever is the doctor here.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are kavirājī or allopathic?
Sac-cid-ānanda: He also both using, kavirājī also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's both. He says can do either one with him. You can take allopathic or kavirāja. He gives both. Whatever the patient likes. Right?
Sac-cid-ānanda: He is making some kavirāja also medicines.
Prabhupāda: His father practices haikin.(?) And the son practices...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Allopathic. I think we're letting ourselves in for trouble when we call these doctors.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have sheep on our land, Śrīla Prabhupāda, at Gītā-nagarī. So Paramānanda, he takes care of the sheep, and we take the wool from the sheep. And then from the wool she spins on a spindle and makes the thread, and then she made the shawl by knitting the wool threads. In other words, it's completely begun from scratch. We didn't purchase the wool at a shop or anything. It came from the sheep that we're keeping on our land.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...the only medicine remains, that yogendra-rasa.(?)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.
Hari-śauri: You want to try that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: Right now? Soak a little rice?
Prabhupāda: Rice water required. So what is the time now?
Hari-śauri: Almost ten past two. Ten minutes past two.
Prabhupāda: So in a small pot just soak rice water, little. And after two hours use that water. Let me.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A little extra strength. Rice water will give you a little extra strength?
Prabhupāda: Yes. One globule, little honey and little rice water. Let me try.
Hari-śauri: A full cardamom?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You know. But this must be smashed very nicely.
Prabhupāda: How they learned so much?
Kīrtanānanda: (laughs) Kṛṣṇa's in the heart. Nobody's ever done this before. This is the bracket that goes under the sun shade. This is a view of Bahulaban farm. This is the big guesthouse that is just completed, and this is another new building that has gone up since you've been there. This will be a utility building for all different kinds of shops where they can make jewelry and cast concrete and carpenter shops and all different shops. So we all thank you very much, because it is only by your grace we have gotten this inspiration.
Prabhupāda: Besides that, whenever you require money, you can ask. He'll give.
Kīrtanānanda: Thank you, Prabhupāda. I prefer to give it. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: No. Give and take. (break) You are fulfilling my dream, New Vrindaban. I dreamt all these things. Wonderful things have been done. He is the first student, from the very beginning. When I was in the storefront he was bringing carpet, bench, some gong, some lamp. In this way...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's still bringing gifts.
Prabhupāda: Sevā-vṛtti, service attitude. Jaya. (pause) Live long, serve long.
Kīrtanānanda: Thank you. (break)
Brahmānanda: These are the original beads that we got in New York when Prabhupāda made the first initiations. There were no tulasī beads available in New York City.
Dr. Kapoor: No, I see. (laughs)
Rūpānuga: We went to a bead shop on 14th Street.
Dr. Kapoor: I see. (laughs)
Rūpānuga: Japanese beads.
Dr. Kapoor: That has some historic significance, yes.
Rūpānuga: Actually, they come out to be very long. Six feet.
Dr. Kapoor: You can now get tulasī beads from here, because it should really be tulasī and not any other thing. Japa-mālā.
Rūpānuga: Śrīla Prabhupāda chanted on these, so...
Brahmānanda: Now they're tulasī.
Dr. Kapoor: (laughs) (pause) Prabhupāda seems to be slightly better today. He takes interest in other things and wants to speak.
Brahmānanda: You're feeling better today, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...syrup.
Dr. Kapoor: That syrup, he says, that has...
Prabhupāda: (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: Where is Kīrtanānanda Swami? (Bengali)...New Vrindaban scheme... (Bengali)
Hari-śauri: This is a palace that they're building in our New Vrindaban farm community. This is built by our own men. This is not complete yet, but it's being built, the dome. Kīrtanānanda Swami is in charge. These are the devotees. Everything is being made by our men. They learned how to cast concrete, how to make these pillars, archways. This marble laying is all done by our men. They came here and learned, and they have a marble shop. This is the kīrtana hall inside. This is on the walls. Here's the floor. This is onyx and marble together. This is pressed concrete, sculptured. This is a support piece, little decorative. This is a guesthouse that was built by the devotees. This is another new building they're building now, and this is present installation and silos for storing cow fodder. You want to sit up, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: I can sit down for some...
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Rāmeśvara Mahārāja wanted to show you some very nice things from the BBT, I think your Godbrothers would also be interested to see.
Prabhupāda: Bring him.
Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, these are pictures of the new paintings for Tenth Canto, Volume Two.
Prabhupāda: Bring some prasādam for these men.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: This is the word of a great poet.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Girirāja's parents took him there, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and they made another offer to him.
Prabhupāda: What is that? (Tamāla Kṛṣṇa laughs)
Girirāja: Well, no, they... My father has increased the fortune, so he was trying to tempt me again, but I wasn't interested. But I think in the end he may give in to Kṛṣṇa, because we were in... We were helping Prabhaviṣṇu by giving him dollars, and he would give us rupees. So we were in a shop, and my mother was making a check, which she was giving to me to give to Prabhaviṣṇu. So the owner of the shop thought that the check was for him, and he started making some objections. So my father said, "No. In our system the husband gives to the wife, and the wife gives to the son, and the son gives to Kṛṣṇa." (laughter) So everyone laughed.
Prabhupāda: Just try to manage.
Girirāja: I had a very nice dream last night in which Your Divine Grace appeared. And you were walking around the premises of the Vṛndāvana temple, and there were some doll exhibits. So you were saying that they should improve the quality of the exhibits, because this is their sādhana. So I felt that you were, actually, you were telling me that I should improve the quality of my service and that this was my sādhana, but to be, you know, polite, instead of saying it directly, you were pointing out to their service.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "My dear Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami and Dhṛṣṭadyumna Swami: Please accept my most humble obeisances unto your feet. All glories to our beloved spiritual master Śrīla Prabhupāda. May Lord Kṛṣṇa, if He so desires, please cure Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'm writing this letter as a brief report on the recent events as a result of my trip to Kwangchow, Canton China. I arrived on October 16th. Business—attended the Trade Fair but signed no contracts as all the prices were far too high. Research on some items may result in future business. Saṅkīrtana—our real business: I gave two Chinese Bhagavad-gītās to the Chungshan University, or Dr. Sun Yatsen University as it is called now, in Canton. They were accepted by the administration with assurance of being delivered to the appropriate departments. I inquired from the liaison office how to visit the university. They said it must be prearranged, but they did not know how. From past experience..." This boy had gone to China once before, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He's a Canadian. He says, "From past experience..." He's one of your disciples. "From past experience, because of limited time, I decided to just go, although warned not to. I walked past the guard's house at the gate of the university, hoping not to be seen. After I got forty to fifty yards, when a woman came running after me yelling in Chinese. I finally turned to her and said, 'No, it is all right,' and smiled and I kept walking on. She retreated, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, and I went on to the first building, where I saw some books through the windows. As I approached the front door, the first person I met was a middle-aged woman who spoke good English. She was a biology teacher, and we discussed the life principle as she took me to the history department and then reception. There, with two other Chinese persons, we discussed Chinese politics, and I explained the natural social body, varṇāśrama." He was discussing varṇāśrama with them. "However, as they began to understand how much sense it made, they said I had better talk to the people of the political philosophy but were unwilling to arrange it, and I was unable to also. They admitted to still having a class society in China, but the goal was to have no classes, with the means of production so arranged that everyone could have what they wanted. Such demons. They accept Marx, Lenin and Mao as absolute authority and plan to spread this perfect social system, as they call it, all over the world. I gave one Gītā to the main public library. They accepted when they found out that I was a Canadian and thanked me very much. Then, on October 25th, with saffron dhotī and Chinese cymbals, I went out on the main street in Kwangchow in the evening, chanting the holy name." This is in China, Śrīla Prabhupāda. "At first there were many suspicious looks, but in a few minutes I had a large crowd following me. Soon the children were running in front, with some of them dancing. I also began to dance, and a loud uproar ensued from the audience. The crowd grew larger and extended out into the road, where the buses began to honk their horns. Just then a cymbal fell from the string to the ground. As I picked it up and repaired it, the crowd came very close all around and tightly crowded. I chanted loudly, 'Hare Kṛṣṇa,' and heard one 'Kṛṣṇa,' in return. I responded with 'Kṛṣ-ṇa' loudly, and three or four answered. Soon I had about twenty responding to the chant, but decided to go on, as the crowd was getting too big. A few minutes later a man broke through the crowd and grabbed my arm and motioned me to stop. I continued, and soon another grabbed the other arm and pulled me into a shop, closed the doors and offered me a seat. The crowd responded with an uproar and banged on the doors for a little while. I had to wait about fifteen minutes until a person came who spoke English. He told me I was causing interference with traffic, and soon after they let me go. I did not go out again as I did not want to agitate them too far. I had previously chanted in a bus and showed the people pictures of Kṛṣṇa. It was very ecstatic. I have been told since then that the incidents would be heard of by nearly everyone in Kwangchow as a conversation topic. Perhaps the name of Kṛṣṇa will also be repeated many times by many people..." (break) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So China has sacrificed everything. What is their aim?
| Page Title: | Shop (Conversations 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 18 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=49, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 49 |