School (Conversations 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are rascal. You do not know what is that chemical, and still you say that some chemical is missing. This is going on, bluffing, cheating. This should be stopped. You do not know what is that chemical missing; still, you say, "Some chemical missing. Why do you say like that?"

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Recently there were some journals that came out. The title is called "The Origin of Life." I will bring in school when we discuss... It started about from last year. And they have got an international association of scientists, and they discuss about the origin of life. And then... I wrote a letter to the editor of that journal, and they replied me that they're going to have another meeting, international meeting, in Japan in 1977. And there will be several meetings in Europe in the coming years. So their aim and object is to prove that life started from chemicals. It is a big group, all international scientists. So he asked me to become a member of a research group.

Prabhupāda: So you become member and protest, "No," and prove. You just become the opposite.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: There was another devotee, Jñāna dāsa, in Germany, who is a graduate from Oxford University, their school. And we have invited him to come to this meeting but he did not respond. Maybe he will come and help in the future.

Prabhupāda: Mm, yes.

Rūpānuga: He has, what is his field?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. His topic was classical, statistical (indistinct) proof. That was allotted to Jñāna dāsa Prabhu, to Germany. (indistinct) Mahārāja sent a telegram, and I also personally wrote a letter saying that he should participate in writing (indistinct). He has a (indistinct) background, he told me (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is nice, attend. Kṛṣṇa will help you. They are wiping out Kṛṣṇa, and your business will be to establish Kṛṣṇa. Hm.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Therefore?

Guest (1): The number of cells that he comes equipped with is less than the normal and number of enzymes that must be equipped in certain proportions do not come in the right proportion so that the later functioning is not to the mark. Therefore full and cognitive ability is very much affected. So what we are trying to do is—hopefully in the next five years we can do it—is to define a critical period. We do not know yet what is a critical period. We are talking of a very large time, large span of time, but most probably it is only a few months period in which if the baby is supplied very well, at least then our system will not be affected. His body may be affected. By the lunch program in a school they have been able to improve very much the physical characteristics of the body but if the mental mischief has been done, it is done. It cannot be corrected later on. So...

Prabhupāda: No, now this killing of the babies are going on.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: That was second stage. The first stage I used to publish and distribute as gṛhastha, I did not mind whether one page or not. I was distributing. So spending about four hundred, five hundred rupees, I did not care if one page or not, but I'll distribute. Then, when I retired, left home, I was publishing and distributing myself to get subscription. The subscription was very cheap, two rupees, four annas, I think, for the year. Two copies per month. Just like you published The Harmonist? Like that. Then I published Bhāgavatam. So I was going to libraries, school, colleges, and everyone was purchasing. My Bhāgavata was being purchased by your Congress Library. In Delhi they have got office. So there was standing order, eighteen copies of my book as soon as they are published. The head librarian in India, New Delhi, he gave me standing order. Dallas is very cold? No. Like this.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Balavanta: He has a degree, a Ph.D. in physics.

Doug: I don't think it's a Ph.D. I think it's just a masters degree.

Prabhupāda: In physics.

Doug: His master told him to finish school before he could join up with him.

Prabhupāda: He talks science about? No.

Doug: He does talk science, yeah. He tries to present Vedic ideas in scientific terms, so that the people of the West will understand. So originally he came out talking about God consciousness and so forth, but eventually he got more and more into this course he calls the science of creative intelligence, SCI, which is what he... (end)

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: Do I understand that the children in your school in Texas, that they're brought up in what you consider spiritual consciousness...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Reporter: Will they be virtually living outside...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Outside also you can live. Simply you must know how to live. At the present moment you do not know how to live. That's all. And there is no education how to live. All of us being sent to the slaughterhouse, that's all. They do not know how to live. In the Vedic civilization you will find the first proposition is how to live. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). How to live... First the human society is divided into four: the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya, or the śūdra. The first-class intelligent man, they are educated as brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means satya śama dama titikṣa ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Just like we are training engineer, similarly, a class of men, those who are very intelligent, they should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. They should be trained up how to speak truth any circumstance. Even to the enemy he will speak truth. This requires training, not that foolishly, a cats' and dogs' life. What is the value of this life? The modern civilization, they do not know how to live. They are simply interested in eating, and that's also any nonsense eating. But according to Vedic civilization, "This eating is first class. This eating is second class. This eating is third class. This eating is fourth class." So many things required to correct the mistaken way of civilization. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, only the devotees will be left. All others... (break) (loud noise of car screeching.) ...are not very neat and clean. (chuckles) Yes. That means condition is not very good. And it is sound.

Brahmānanda: Not in proper repair.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We had an engagement last night at a technical school after your lecture, and inside the entrance of the technical school in a big glass case they had a big engine from a car, when you walk into the technical school. Mostly Indians, young boys.

Prabhupāda: Oh, foreigners.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. (break) So they were very disrespectful actually. But when we started kīrtana, the whole atmosphere changed. Do you think that the young Indian boys in the future, they will become anywhere near as pious as their parents?

Prabhupāda: Why do you take India? We are talking of the whole world. There is no question of India, Europe, America.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: He, or before him, another prince. Because that Prince of... We were at that time children. So I think King George V, when he was Prince of Wales.

Brahmānanda: Oh, when he came to Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen. We were school children at that time. So on the two sides of the road, our first place was, the king, queen passed, we saw. We were given a flag. (laughter) "Jaya Rāja, Rājeśvara." We were... And very good tiffin was supplied. Two samosa, two kachori, two sandeśa, and one big tangerine. Twice I saw. Once when he entered Calcutta, and again, one day, when there was a parade of military... military parade. So both days we were invited, and we saw the king. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...Calcutta, on the Maidan, there's that big building, that big memorial. Is that...

Prabhupāda: Oh, Victoria Memorial.

Brahmānanda: That was built for, the king when he was coming?

Prabhupāda: No, that was built in memory of Victoria. It was done, imitating the Taj Mahal. It took twenty years. Sir Rajendranath Mukherjee of Martin Company, he took the contract. And after finishing, he got this title, "Sir." And when it was being constructed, I went to the top by crossing the scaffolding.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Bombay. If he says yes, that is also dangerous; if he says no, that is also dangerous. (break)

Brahmānanda: We do not really understand how demoniac, how calculating, our leaders are.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Brahmānanda: We have the impression, because we are taught from the very beginning in the schools, that the leaders are to be worshiped, that their birthdays are to be celebrated...

Prabhupāda: Where you are going?

Śrutakīrti: He's going to pick up that lawyer.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Brahmānanda: It is difficult to come to that understanding, that actually, those who are the leaders are not to be trusted.

Prabhupāda: Yes, leaders means government men. That is described. They are all thieves and rogues, anywhere. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Dasyu. Dasyu means plunderers, rogues. Unless you become a rogue you cannot go to the government. You cannot... Any honest man cannot stay with these government men. That is not possible at the present age. Any government. Unless... Just like first-class rogue, your Nixon, he became the president. Because he was a first-class rogue, he became the president. So unless you are first-class rogue, you cannot stay within the circle of government men. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. And their business will be to eat up the vital force of the people. Bhakṣayiṣyanti prajā sarve rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. This is the statement. And people will be harassed. On account of their godlessness, they will be harassed by three things: famine, no rain, and taxation. Taxation by the government, and there will be no rain, there will be famine, no food, and they will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their family and go away, gacchanti giri-kananam, will go, enter into the hills and forest, giving up their hearth and home. This is Kali-yuga. And this is due to their godlessness. On account of this, then the democracy, means anyone, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, anyone who becomes powerful, he will capture the government post. So the śūdras, they are now powerful. Śūdras. Industry means śūdra. So they will capture the governmental power. Just like Communist.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: Contaminated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you contaminate some disease, then you must develop that disease. Similarly, if your mind is contaminated with some material designation, then you have to accept similar body, by nature's way. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). Because the mind associated with a particular type of the modes of material nature, he got this body. There are three qualities: sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Now you mix up. By first mixing it becomes nine, and again mixing up, it becomes eighty-one. And each quality, there are thousands and thousands of variety. And that means by mixing up these qualities there are 8,400,000 species of forms of life. So it is very... God's law, nature's law, they take account of the particular color and awards the body accordingly. It is not man-made law, that there may be some mistake. There is no mistake. If you have contaminated this disease, either smallpox or cholera or this or that, you must develop that disease. Therefore we should be desireless. Desireless means material desire. That material desire begins with the designation. That... The child, he has got a childish body, and he plays like a child. The same child, when he will get a youthful body, he will do like that. The soul is the same. But on account of different type of body he is acting differently. That is practical. A small child, in the childhood he will talk like nonsense. People will enjoy it. But the same child, when he is grown up and he talks like nonsense, people will call him nonsense, rascal. Why? The body has changed. The circumstance has changed. This is the real education, that we are changing body, and according to our bodily situation we are acting differently. That they do not understand. There is no school, college or education about the soul and the soul's changing different position of different body, and in this way he remains materially entangled.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, I am not talking of the Sufis. I am talking of the original Islam.

Yoga student: Well, the Sufis claim to be the original Muslims.

Prabhupāda: Do the all the Muslims accept them? Then?

Parivrājakācārya: There are about 780 different schools of Islam and different ideas.

Prabhupāda: Then? We have to take the original. Otherwise misled.

Yoga student: Well, I think the original path must be found in Sufism because that is the...

Prabhupāda: Then, if the original path is followed, why it is named Sufism?

Yoga student: Because there are those who have fallen away from it, just as in...

Prabhupāda: Who has fallen, the Islam or the Sufist?

Yoga student: I think the formalists have fallen away, like the jñānīs in Hinduism. Just as there's a dispute between the Shaivites and the Vaiṣṇavaites.

Prabhupāda: So who are fallen, the original Islam or the Sufist?

Yoga student: The Sufis are the original Islam.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Before Muhammad?

Yoga student: No, springing from Muhammad.

Prabhupāda: Then how you can say it is original?

Yoga student: It is original. All the schools of laws, they've developed...

Prabhupāda: No, if is the original, why they named differently?

Yoga student: Because there are those who have fallen away from it, and they are the ones who use this name. The Sufis don't use the name about themselves. It's used by others who wish to...

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of Sufism? Literary meaning?

Yoga student: Well, Sufism in a sense is what bhaktism is in the Hindu context.

Prabhupāda: Bhakti means to offer service to the Lord. Does it mean?

Yoga student: Absolutely.

Prabhupāda: So then if the Lord is to be served, then He must be a person; otherwise where is the question of service?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Lacking, there are so many things. But one who is actually chanting Rāma, the result will be that he will get attachment. That is the process. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ atha bhajana-kriyā, tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭha tato ruciḥ tathā āsaktiḥ tato bhāvaḥ. This will increase. Just like if you have gone to school—you have learned, began to learning—then your learning will increase. And one day you will come to the stage of passing M.A. examination. And if it fails, that mean you did not go to school very seriously. Otherwise the general process is you make progress and come to the standard of passing M.A. examination. Then if you have gone to school and you have not followed the rules and regulations, you have not attended the teacher, the lessons, then you failure. That I am saying, that that is not very seriously taken that "I am going to school. I must learn it." If one is serious, then... That is recommended,

utsāhāt dhairyāt niścayāt

tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt

sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge

sadbhiḥ bhaktiḥ prasidhyati

These are the process. First of all the first process is utsāhaḥ, enthusiasm: "I must advance in spiritual life." That is required. And if you are failing enthusiasm, then in the beginning it is failure.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Oh, all right. Jaya. Jaya.

Guest: So I think what we have in Islam is... They say that the road, the way towards God, the ways are many, as many as the human beings, that is said. So in the number of human beings you have ways towards God. So everybody, each person, has his own way towards God. And it's really hard for me, difficult for me to believe that there's only one way and there is only one book and one school, one way of teaching.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: And when Muhammad said that God is great, he simply said God is great, and he adds nothing to it for somebody who is well acquainted with Islam culture and he who knows well about Koran's teachings, it cannot be understood and accepted. It is the same with somebody who is well acquainted with Christianity and the truth spoken through Christianity. It is the same with the Buddhism or other ways which are designed, which are...

Prabhupāda: So your point is that God is understood in different ways. That is not point?

Atreya Ṛṣi: That's one of his points.

Prabhupāda: And what is the other point?

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, I am not talking of the Sufis, I am talking of the original Islam.

Guest: The Sufis claim to be the original process.

Prabhupāda: Do they, all the Muslims accept them?

Devotee 2: There are about 780 different schools of Islam, different ideas they have.

Prabhupāda: You have to take the original, otherwise mislead.

Guest: I think the original path must be found in Sufism, it can be because that is the essence...

Prabhupāda: If the original path is followed, why it is named Sufism?

Guest: Because there were those who had fallen away from it.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: There are those who had fallen away from it. Just as in the Hindu...

Prabhupāda: Who has fallen, Islam or the Sufis?

Guest: I think the formalists have fallen away like the jñānīs in Hinduism. Just as there is a dispute between the Śaivites and the Vaiṣṇavites.

Prabhupāda: Who has fallen? The original Islam or the Sufis?

Guest: The Sufis are the original Muslims.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Before Mohammed?

Guest: No, springing from Mohammed.

Prabhupāda: Then how you can say it is original.

Guest: Yes, it is original. All the schools of law they develop...

Prabhupāda: If it is original, why it is named different?

Guest: Because there are those that have fallen away from it and they are the ones who use this name. The Sufis don't use this name for themselves, it's used by others who wish to condemn them.

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of Sufism, literal meaning?

Guest: Well, Sufism in a sense is ah, what bhaktism is in the Hindu context.

Prabhupāda: Bhakti means to offer service to God. Does it mean?

Guest: Oh, absolutely!

Prabhupāda: Then if God is to be served, then He must be a person, otherwise where is the question of serving?

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So everyone's son is there, all devotees' son. So from every center some contribution should be given to the Gurukula.

Jayatīrtha: Jaya. That was my proposal. That becomes a kind of tax.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: In a sense, it's like a school tax.

Prabhupāda: But, at the same time, it should be examined how Gurukula is spending money.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. Jagadīśa has made a complete report.

Prabhupāda: Not unnecessarily spending. That is the duty of the GBC.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, about this tax, about this money to be taken from each temple. Gurukula is one of the projects. For example, there may be another project...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...that Your Divine Grace and group, when you travel, there needs to be also... Every temple should contribute to that as well.

Prabhupāda: Well, if every temple cannot contribute, I shall manage from the BBT fund. That is not a problem.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: But only for furniture and apartment, if you forget yourself and act in such a way, then next life you become a dog and lie on the street, then what is the use of your furniture? You are getting next life. First of all, you understand that, that "This is not the end of my life. I am eternal. I am changing my body." So it is described as dress. Now you may be dressed like a royal king. And next dress may be different. "May be" means it must be. And for the examples of the dresses—so many living entities. So you must be cautious that "What kind of dress I am going to have next?" (break) Where is that science? Where is that school, college? If you remain only confident that "I'll go on with this dress perpetually," that is not the fact. You'll have to change your dress. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). But we have no knowledge that "What kind of dress I am going to have?" It is a fact. I have already changed dress. I had a child dress. I had a boy's dress. I had a young man dress. Now I have got old man's dress. Now, Kṛṣṇa says that, "This also, you'll have to change." So why I am not inquiring "What kind of dress I am going to have?" and "How I am changing this dress?" So young man doesn't want to become old man. That is a fact. But if a young man says, "No, no, I don't want old man's dress," will it be accepted? Nature will say, "No, you must accept." Where is the remedy for this? Why these rascals do not understand that "I am fully under the control of nature's law, and I am declaring free. I am becoming philosopher"? He's fully under the control of nature's law. You have read Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmaṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You are fully under the control of the laws of nature, and still you are thinking "I am independent. There is no superior controller." What is this nonsense? Hm? What is the answer?

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of sincerity; it is the question of ignorance. If, if the father, mother, teacher, government does not know that how the people should be raised, then they remain in ignorance. Just like a... If the child... Child is ignorant, but if he's not given the education...

Girl: (German)

Haṁsadūta: She says now in this movement a new generation is being raised up, the children that we have in our schools and in our movement.

Prabhupāda: There... Therefore we are educating children even.

Girl: For the future

Prabhupāda: Yes, future generation. Because the so-called educational institutions, they have produced only fools and rascals.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Now, one thing is that why theology should be in reference with Bible? If it is a science, then why should it refer only to the Bible?

Prajāpati: Yes. The biggest school of theology, Harvard School of Theology... The study of the Bible is there, but only on the side. Instead, they study Freud, Karl Marx, everybody else...

Acyutānanda: Well, they should study Gītā.

Prajāpati: Yes, that's our point. How to get them to realize that? That's a question.

Acyutānanda: So we'll ask them, "We have a most scientific and detailed description of the self and God and the means to join to Him. That cannot be avoided in your study. And we claim the highest standard of renunciation, and worship and godly society."

Prajāpati: And their answer...

Acyutānanda: "You can't avoid us."

Prajāpati: Their answer to such a challenge will be: "You please go across the street to the study of Hinduism."

Acyutānanda: "No, you said theology. God is not a Christian God."

Prajāpati: But they're not interested. They only want to hear the Christian point of view. And for them, "Christian" doesn't mean Bible; it means their own...

Acyutānanda: That's Prabhupāda's first thing—what is God? Is it the Christian God? What is God? What is your definition of God? Is He a Christian God or pure?

Prabhupāda: No, the... The... First of all, this should be established, whether God can be Christian God or Hindu God or Muslim God? Is God to be designated like that? God is one, so how there is one God? If Christian has got separate God, a Hindu has got separate god, Muslim has got separate God, then how God is one?

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

abhupāda: Hmmm? Find out this dictionary meaning.

Prajāpati: Logic is the rational ordering of thoughts in words.

Pañcadraviḍa: When I was in San Francisco six or seven years ago, some new school of theology, theologians, they were having things, like they were opening up churches to the hippies to have parties for LSD and things like that. I remember a couple at the Glide Memorial Church. They had that. And a number of the other new theologians, they were starting to talk about "free sex," and drugs, and...

Acyutānanda: They put on stunts to attract people to accept Christianity.

Trivikrama: Like Bingo.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes.

Acyutānanda: Bingo.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: And they have opened special churches for homosexuals in Australia.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Special churches for homosexuals in Australia.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: If you propose a theory and say, "It can exist," then that's an illogical presentation. A rabbit's horn. (break) It can't exist. Sky-flower. Doesn't...

Prajāpati: Each of these big theologians has a specific area of specialization. For example, I took a course, when I was a student in the School of Theology, in the New Testament, hoping to learn scriptures, but instead, the entire semester was spent trying to decide which of the books of the Bible came first—the Book of Matthew or the Book of Mark? And they had very detailed ways of what they called "form criticism," taking a particular passage and checking it, seeing...

Acyutānanda: Right. What is their method?

Pañcadraviḍa: Why did you say you joined? What was it? I mean what was it you were trying to study? You said...

Prajāpati: I went three years to a school of theology.

Pañcadraviḍa: But that particular course?

Prajāpati: This was a course in the New Testament.

Pañcadraviḍa: So why, why did you say you took it?

Prajāpati: To study the śāstra, to study the scriptures. What was being said. Instead...

Acyutānanda: No, what was their method for examining their material, research?

Prajāpati: The material research is taking, finding certain forms, certain sentence construction, grammar, and comparing it with other passages in the scriptures as opposed to that grammar, to see if the form is the same, to see, to determine by different criteria which came first, which is earlier.

Acyutānanda: So after...

Prabhupāda: No, their...

Acyutānanda: Since St. Paul did they find out...

Prabhupāda: That is academic. That is not theology.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: They are coming to that point, the hippies. Openly they are having sex life, on the street, on the beach. (Break)

Madhudviṣa: We may enjoy while we are here now. If we think about the future, then that means we are taking our mind off the present.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then close all these universities, school, colleges. Close.

Madhudviṣa: Well, that's also for enjoyment at present time because we can get together and have social life.

Prabhupāda: No, it is for future, not for present. The child does not want to go to school, but the father forces him to go for future.

Jayādvaita: That's tangible, though.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayādvaita: That's tangible. You can see. If somebody gets a university education, he gets a job, this, that, but in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you can't see how he's going back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: And besides that, why you are keeping money in the bank, do good bank balance?

Madhudviṣa: Because it's giving interest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means for future.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Ah, against the law.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, if I'm always worried about the future, how will anything get done now? If I'm always worried about the future, how will anything get done now?

Prabhupāda: No, we gave that you are not to think of future foolishly. Anyone who is going to school, it does not mean that he is not taking care of his body. The school-going is future, but still he's taking care of his body. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...of survival of the fittest. If I have a lot of sense enjoyment, then that is God's will.

Prabhupāda: But nobody is fit to survive. (laughs) That is the real problem. You are struggling for surviving, but you'll not survive. That is nature's law.

Rāmeśvara: Well, they say that within this life...

Prabhupāda: Because... There is. But these rascals, they do not know how to survive. If you have got death, then where is your question of surviving?

Pañcadraviḍa: So why not eat, drink, and be merry because tomorrow you die?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. That, animals are also doing. You can do that.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Bhāgavata: They have big maṭha in Bhuvaneśvara.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhāgavata: In Bhuvaneśvara, they have big Ramakrishna maṭha. Vivekananda School, library, so much land, everything, very organized.

Prabhupāda: So we can do that. You have to convince people. There is no question of making competition with them. But you, you can preach your own philosophy anywhere.

Guest (3): With that happening with the people in Orissa...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest (3): ...try to convince them: No, that is false and this is the way.

Prabhupāda: No, their Ramakrishna Mission allurement is that daridra-nārāyaṇa-seva and hospital. That is their only allurement. They have no program. Nobody is attracted by their philosophy. And what philosophy they have got? Never mind. We are not concerned with them.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Recently we have shown the film and spoken in several Catholic schools in Melbourne. They have comparative religion classes, and they ask us to come to their high schools to teach comparative religion so the students can see what other religions think. Usually they...

Prabhupāda: There is no other religion. All bogus. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo. Only religion is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is religion.

Amogha: They think that if they sin it's all right, because man is imperfect. So they think we should believe in Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Every animal is imperfect, but man—animal can become perfect. If he likes. So it is very important life.

Śrutakīrti: They say it's not possible to become perfect, that that's saying "I can become God."

Prabhupāda: What?

Śrutakīrti: They say only God can be perfect, that we cannot become perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, you cannot become as perfect as God, but near about.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: They seem to like everything about our philosophy, except when we explain very clearly that everyone is sinning and under the control of lust and that we must become free from lust. Then they become disturbed because they don't know how to do this, and they want to disclaim it. Just when I was saying that in one class, they all understood very clearly by examples that we are all controlled by our senses, and this microphone speaker came on for all classes, interrupting my speech, and a voice announced in the Catholic school, "Would all the students whose parents purchased tickets for the wine-tasting festival tonight please report to the office," and they all began to laugh because they were embarrassed, because they could see that actually they were engaged in sinful activities. They are also very amazed when they see your books. Sometimes we take ten or fifteen books-Bhagavad-gītā, and ten Śrīmad Bhāgavatams, Caitanya-caritāmṛta—and we line them all across the front wall or desk, maybe fifteen books. And I begin by saying, "I'm sorry there's only a few minutes to talk, because our Bible is very big," and then I explain, "This is Bhagavad-gītā, and then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam's sixty volumes. Caitanya-caritāmṛta-twelve volumes." And they become very much amazed that this is our..., beginning of our Bible. (break) What can we say to Communists to attract them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: To make their Communist philosophy perfection. That your Communism is not perfect. By Kṛṣṇa consciousness you can make it perfect. Take for example that you are sympathetic to all living beings that they must eat. But why you are eating animals? They must eat also. Why don't you allow them to eat? That is you defect. We allow everyone to eat. Not only human beings, but also animals, birds, beasts, they should live comfortably and without any disturbance, they must get their food. That is our Communism. But where is your Communism? You are thinking of your countrymen only, or in your country also only for the human being, and you are sending other poor animals, because they cannot protest, to the slaughterhouse. So why do you protest to the capitalists when they send you to the slaughterhouse? You are sending these poor animals to the slaughterhouse. So why do you protest? You protest that the capitalist are slaughtering you. So, if you slaughter others, why should you be afraid of being slaughtered yourself? Is it all right?

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: By details do you mean the rules and regulations?

Prabhupāda: No, that is not in the beginning. In the beginning one must know that he is not this body. He is spirit soul. Don't bring in controversy, but try to convince that you are not this body. Then, gradually. That is the mode of teaching in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Paramahaṁsa: As they become more interested they ask automatically how they can make advancement.

Prabhupāda: If they understand that "I am spirit soul" then he'll advance. Then you can say. The chanting is required.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: And prasādam.

Amogha: Everyone likes prasādam. In these high schools we take maṅgala āratika burfi and they love it. Sometimes the Catholic sisters and nuns come up afterwards and say, "How do you make this? What is the recipe?" (end)

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: He has got the human body. He also... These birds are catching fish. He does not know that he has got other business.

Amogha: At the school, the students say, "Why not eat fish? Jesus was passing out fish, in the Bible. And we all catch fish. We like to catch fish." And then we tell them about meat. So, they think that we are loosing a great pleasure, that we cannot eat meat.

Prabhupāda: You tell them, that you will be very merry—that's all right. But do you want to stop these merry affairs all of a sudden? Ask them, what will they reply?

Amogha: They'll say "No, we don't want to stop."

Prabhupāda: Then, the nature will stop it. What are you going to arrange for that?

Amogha: They say, "We don't know what will happen after, so we'll just enjoy and have fun now, as much as possible."

Prabhupāda: So why have you come to school? Why don't you play all day?

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Then, they are thinking of future. Now we are thinking of the future. That is ignorance—that they do not know what is future life. They are thinking of the future, that's a fact, but because they are kept in darkness, about future life, they are doing all this irresponsible work.

Amogha: But nowadays people usually only go to school because the law requires it. Then at the age of...

Prabhupāda: Law requires or not requires, they are going to school with some future hope. So every sane man should think of the future. But because they are kept in darkness, they are all insane. They do not know what is the future of life. That is the defect. Everyone is thinking for future, but he does not know what is future after death. That is their ignorance. And Bhagavad-gītā begins that as the child has future, the boy has future, the young man has future, similarly the old man has also future. So that they do not know. That is their ignorance.

Amogha: A lot of them will accept, "Yes, there is future after death," but...

Prabhupāda: That he does not know, what is that future.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: In one high school here they asked the question whether we accept homosexuality. And I said, "Of course not. This is only a perversion." And they said, "This is nature's way to stop overpopulation," because there won't be any children. So much foolish.

Prabhupāda: How degraded the human society is becoming. And the children, they are discussing.

Amogha: It seems that step by step, in the law courts and the judges, everyone is step by step accepting more and more degradation, and makind it legal, everything.

Jayadharma: Even when a man commits first-degree murder he only gets ten years' jail. There are cases of people committing cold-blooded murder and only getting ten years' jail. And then after that, getting out again and doing the same thing.

Paramahaṁsa: They think that "This poor man was psychologically disturbed and killed someone." So they give him ten years in jail, then they say, "Now he is rehabilitated, he has been very nice, and in the prison he was acting very nicely, so we want him to be happy. So we'll let him out on parole as long as he's good." Then they let him out.

Amogha: That's why we take your books to the prisons. Sometimes we have a contest to see who can distribute the most books in three days. When they were deciding who would go with Madhudviṣa Swami to India, they had a contest to see who could distribute the most books and get the most laxmī at the same time. So they would collect much laxmī, then they would go out and give away books to the prisons and jails and hospitals. Cases of books. They put them in the libraries too. They agreed; otherwise they didn't get. They would ask them if they would use it, and they said yes. So in three days they distributed very, very many books.

Prabhupāda: Free?

Amogha: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is very good.

Amogha: And in the schools they have comparative religion courses, and they usually write us a letter saying, "Can you please tell us, for our comparative religions class, what you believe and what is behind your movement?" And things like this. And if they are close enough we usually go there, or if not we write them and send them some literature. Everyone in the classes I find in the schools, everyone is bored with the ideas they are teaching. Everyone has heard it all, and they are bored. But when we come, they become very interested. Just like at one school. We had one hour. We showed the film, then we talked and answered questions for one hour, and then the bell rang. It was time for their next class. So the teacher said, "Students, shall we go to the next class or stay here?" And they said, "Oh, let's stay here. This is much better." So they stayed for one more hour. Their teaching is so dry, but we handed out mahā-prasādam, and it was very interesting. Usually in each class there are three or four students who are especially pious, and they come, they stay afterwards and ask many questions. We can also see that they are more affected by the understanding than the other students.

Prabhupāda: This road is good. There is no traffic.

Paramahaṁsa: All of the temples they are receiving letters regularly from (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: It is not meant for mass people. Only selected fortunate. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "If I could make one person to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, then my mission would be successful." It is not for mass person. Only the fortunate they can do. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by introducing saṅkīrtana, even the mass can take part. When there is saṅkīrtana, everyone joins. And by joining in that way, they will become purified.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There is a natural tendency to hear. Artificially they stopped. Nitya siddha kṛṣṇa bhakti. Appeals to the heart immediately. Unless he is too much sinful it will appeal immediately.

Amogha: In Sydney there was one teacher in a school, a private school, for rich men's sons, very, very wealthy. And he is the head of general studies and the school chaplain. A Christian. One boy from the school became a devotee, although he still went to the school. And the discussion came up in class about what the Hare Kṛṣṇaś believe. So he invited us to come.

Prabhupāda: The clergyman?

Amogha: Yes, school chaplain, and he liked it so much. I remember he was taking notes, and he was smiling every time one point came up that he liked. So he asked us to come again the next week, and again, and then the next time we went through six classes in one day. For about two months he asked us again and again, and then to show the film. And he was always taking notes. He would say, "What was that again? Part and parcel?"

Prabhupāda: He is sincere.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: And he ate a big plate of prasādam. He liked it very much. So he was saying that perhaps we can have some regular comparative religion course in the school, and when we show the students, tell them about Hare Kṛṣṇa movement as a study, about, as he calls it, our religion, so they can also come in a bus to the temple.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Amogha: The students will come in a bus and see how we chant and have some prasādam.

Prabhupāda: It is a good reception. So that is still going on?

Amogha: It hasn't started yet. This is the plan. But sometimes he hesitates, because he has doubts.

Prabhupāda: Superstition. That is superstition.

Amogha: He gets in bad association, and then he begins to doubt a little bit, I think.

Prabhupāda: You do your duty, that's all. (pause) What is this? Stone or something?

Amogha: Part of the street I think. I think it's sandstone from the beach. (pause) Many politicians are afraid that Australia may be attacked by the Communists. Everyone is very much afraid of what could happen in the future, because the United States is becoming weaker.

Prabhupāda: Now they are indulging homosex, how they will become strong? And the students, they are discussing, that means they are having. The stamina is being lost. Now what they have created, it will be lost.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: One man who joined us about Rathayātrā time last year was a solicitor. He used to buy our books but he never read them. But he would keep them on his bookshelf. And he used to always think, "Those are such beautiful books." He used to think like that.

Prabhupāda: This is appreciation.

Amogha: He never got time to read it.

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. If he keeps the books with appreciation, that makes his life sure, insured. He immediately becomes in touch with God. Who keeps the book with reverence and love, immediately he becomes in touch with God. Because these books are representative of God.

Amogha: When we go to a school, I first ask, "How many students have seen us chanting in the steets?" Immediately they all raise their hands.

Prabhupāda: It is a very nice service you are doing. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied, hari-toṣaṇa. As soon as Kṛṣṇa is satisfied, your preaching is perfect. (end)

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jayadharma: They never accepted.

Carol: Hmm. What is the main part of your philosophy? Is it based on the Vedānta school?

Prabhupāda: No. This is no question of philosophy. You could not accept the simple instruction. Then where is the question of philosophy?

Carol: The question of love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot understand the principles of life and morality, Jesus Christ's instruction that "Thou shall not kill." So how you become philosopher?

Carol: How is the love to be understood? Between people or through inner sort of communication with a higher self?

Gaṇeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda said that you could not understand the simple instruction, so where is the question of understanding philosophy? Not love. Philosophy.

Prabhupāda: You have no love, because you are accustomed to kill. Philosophy begins when you know that everyone is part and parcel of God, and everyone should be given the full facilities to live without injuring anyone for one's personal benefit. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). A paṇḍita, philosopher, means learned scholar. Not fools and rascals can become philosopher. Those who are learned scholar, thoughtful, they can become philosopher. But if one has no knowledge how to behave with other living entities, what is the meaning of becoming a philosopher?

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Perfect knowledge you can immediately, provided you take knowledge from the perfect. If you receive knowledge from a bogus person, then how you can have perfect knowledge? Knowledge has to be received from a person. Why shall I go to a school, college, teachers, guru? To receive knowledge. So if your teacher, guru or parent, those who are your superior, if they are perfect, then you get perfect knowledge. But if your teacher is a bogus, then you get bogus knowledge.

Carol: And this is immediate, is it?

Amogha: She says is this immediate, the reception of perfect knowledge?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we are giving knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā. This is perfect knowledge. You take it; you become perfect.

Carol: And your actions are perfect actions?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Amogha: And your actions are perfect actions?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find—you have read Bhagavad-gītā? No.

Carol: Mmm.

Prabhupāda: It is said, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Think of God. So we are doing this. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa—we are thinking of Kṛṣṇa. THe direction is there, and we are doing that. Therefore my action is perfect. If the physician says that you take this medicine in such and such dose, you don't do this, and do this. If I follow, then I'm cured, perfect.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Is there a stage after a person becomes completely purified...?

Prabhupāda: The students, they are going to school, college, and they are talking of sex. Where is tapasya? How it is possible? So therefore bhakti-yoga is the only way of spiritual improvement in this age—all age, especially in this age. No other method will help you-yoga, karma, jñāna, nothing. Bhakti-yoga is always strong, especially in this age, Kali-yuga. Therefore it is said, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva, especially. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva... (CC Adi 17.21). This is the simplest. But people do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. They are so much in ignorance. They do not know what is spiritual life, what is ultimate goal. Simply like cats and dogs. The dog jumps over with four legs, and if a man can jump over with four wheels, then that is advance. Just see. They think, "Now we are advanced. We have got four-wheel car to jump over. And the dog is jumping with legs. Therefore this is advanced." They do not know this is also the same dog's business. They do not know it. (break) ...again they have made this car, coming from miles away, but the business is fishing. Just see. Bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. "Advancement of civilization, we have got car, we are nicely dressed, we are human being, ev..." But what is your business? Fishing. Bambhārambhe... Ārambha, gorgeous arrangement—the business is the same. The skylark, what is called? Skylark? These birds?

Devotee (1): Oh, the seagulls. Seagull.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Oh, seagull. They are doing the same business, and after his much advancement of civilization, he is doing the same business. The tiger is also eating flesh and blood, and human being—a scientific slaughterhouse. The same business, but they have got scientific instrument how to cut the throat quickly. This is the advance, advancement of civilization. The dog and cat they are having sex on the open street, and now they are talking of homosex in the school, colleges for education. This is their position. They do not know even what is the standard of human civilization. If you are doing the same business like ordinary animals, then where is the advancement of civilization? Where they have gone by crossing here?

Devotee (2): I think they went up that path out there, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Here, this way?

Devotee (2): Yes, I think so.

Devotee (1): It leads to the beach.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bhagavad-gītā it says that happiness in the mode of goodness is in the beginning is like poison but at the end it is like nectar. Where does the poison end and where does the sweetness begin?

Prabhupāda: Sweetness? That is false sweetness. Just like sexual intercourse. This is sweet, but aftereffect is very poisonous. Either illicit or legal, the aftereffect is very... You have to take care of the children, the child is diseased, go to the doctor and this, that, so many, maintenance... And illicit—then this charge of rape case and so many other things. So both of them, in the beginning it is very happy, but at the end it is very distressing. That is material happiness. Everyone knows it, that it is distasteful. But still, he does that. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpanāḥ bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Therefore this kṛpanāḥ... Kṛpanāḥ means miser or foolish person.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: And by simply one daṇḍa, one is sannyāsī. This is all over the world. Mussulman, having a long beard, he is Mussulman. Mussuleḥ iman.(?) Musseleḥ means complete, and iman means honest. That is the meaning of Mussulman. Completely honest, completely devoted. Mussuleḥ iman. (long pause) We are not saying just "No sex." We don't say that. We simply say, "No illicit sex," and they do not like it. We don't say "No sex," but simply by saying, "No illicit sex," they don't like. Why? There is a Bengali song, "cakṣe yadi lage bhala kena dadimali" (?) "If I want to see something beautiful, why shall I not see?" That is pravṛtti. "I want to do it. I like to do it. Why should you say, 'No'?" This is the position. "I like to do it. I must do it." This is called pravṛtti (long pause) "I like to interpret Bhagavad-gītā in this way. Why should you say no?" This is going on. (break) The school students, college students, "I like to copy. Why shall I repress(?) ?" This is education. Here also they copy?

Amogha: You mean cheating?

Prabhupāda: No, no, copying in examination?

Amogha: Oh, yes. Well, what they do is someone sneaks the exam answers out before, and they sell the answers to the questions before the test.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Here it is more advanced.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: With all the universities and high-class schools they're simply producing...

Prabhupāda: Fourth-class men.

Amogha: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: They are discussing in the university homosex. They are advanced. Advancement of education. Just see. They are not even fourth-class men; they are animals, producing so many animals, that's all, dogs and hogs. (break) ...in the beginning śamaḥ. Śamaḥ, damaḥ-first two business. Control the sense and keep the mind undisturbed. That is the beginning. Now they are so much sexually disturbed, they're discussing about the profit of homosex. Where is first-class men?

Amogha: They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because...

Prabhupāda: Yes, fourth-class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we are not going to hear of it. A fourth-class man's philosophy, we will have to waste our time to hear them—that's not good. They are not even fourth class; they are animal class. Fourth class has got some position, but they are narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. So what is their philosophy, and who is going to spoil his time to hear about their philosophy? (break)

Paramahaṁsa: In that verse it says, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. What is the difference between jñānam and vijñānam?

Prabhupāda: Jñānam means theoretical, vijñānam means practical.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, if we do not give up lusty desires, either we keep separately or together they fall down in the... All these nuns, they are all complicated, although they live separately. There was a convent school in Calcutta, and it was detected that the head minister was supplying women outside for business. Now one brahmacārīṇi āśrama is started. This means that the authority of this āśrama, they supply young women to rich, richer class, and they pay money. Business is going on.

Amogha: Where is that āśrama?

Prabhupāda: Brahmacārīṇi.

Amogha: Oh. In Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only in India. They have got many branches.

Amogha: They call them brahmacārīṇi?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because nowadays almost every girl is unmarried. So they have devised this āśrama that "Come here." And women can be sold at any cost. People are lusty. So one woman supplied, he pays hundred rupees, two hundred rupees. Business is going on.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: They come for pilgrimage?

Prabhupāda: No, no. They will be sent to your house. Pay for it. Hotel. In the Kali-yuga the sex impulse is so strong, but it is utilized in so many ways. The yogis, swamis, school, college, philosophy—at the end sex, that's all. That example, dog's tail. Whatever you do, greasing, the tail will be like this. (break) I think it is sooner. It takes time less than for going there.

Devotee (1): Oh, I came the short way.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he came by the short way.

Devotee (1):. Yes.

Prabhupāda: (break) This man is unemployed... (end)

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: But the schoolteachers, and the church leaders, and my parents, and grandparents, they all seem to think that it's all right what we're doing, so...

Prabhupāda: But because they are all rascals. Therefore we say all rascals. They may think like that, but our conclusion is anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal. He may be my teacher or father or anyone. He is a rascal. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. "One who cannot save me from the impending danger of birth, death, old age, and disease, he is not my father, he is not my teacher, he is not my guru, he is not my kinsman, he is not my wife, he is not my husband." So many list. So who has got this knowledge, how to save one from the cycle of birth, death, and old age? It is only we, Kṛṣṇa conscious people. We are teaching. Stop your this cycle of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. Come to eternal life and blissful life. So we are the only friends. All are enemies even in the shape of friend or father or teacher-enemies. They do not know the art.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Amogha: Well, we try, but—we have to try—but we can't tell what's going to happen. So it's happening accidentally when we try. Just like in school we have to try, but maybe we will become promoted.

Prabhupāda: No, if you believe in accident, then you should not endeavor for anything. Nothing happens accidentally.

Hari-śauri: Well, then could not we say that by man's activity, then, things are happening? I had one letter from a person I used to know and...

Prabhupāda: Activity plus sanction of God, two things. There are five causes. The activity, the place, the proportion of energy, and ultimately, sanction by God. Then things happen. Otherwise there is no question of accident. Accident can happen by the will of God. That is also... Behind that accident, there is will of God.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: They will become gradually. Not all of a sudden. They are purchasing one book. They will read, and gradually they will be elevated. You go to school, but all of a sudden, you cannot say that "I am M.A." You have to wait. That is called dhairya, utsāhād dhairyāt. One should be very enthusiastic, at the same time, patient. If you think that "I am very enthusiastic; still, I am not getting the result," be patient. Niścayāt. Be sure the result will come, but be patient. These are the ways. Utsāhād dhairyāt niścayāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. You have to follow the regulative principles. Sato vṛtteḥ. You should be honest. You are not following, and still, you say "I am devotee." That means you are not honest. Sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge, and in the association of devotees. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. By following these six principles, you advance. This is the Rūpa Gosvāmī's instruction.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Give him some prasāda.

Madhudviṣa: One of the... Just from understanding, speaking to Amogha, is one of the doctor's dilemmas is that he is reading your Bhagavad-gītā, but his colleagues do not appreciate your Bhagavad-gītā so much. He, sometimes he is confronted with the people who are tending more towards the impersonal school of thought, I think, and they have criticisms of your Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. So he...

Dr. Copeland: That's why I was asking. To see how you would reply to that.

Prabhupāda: First of all, you think that Kṛṣṇa is speaking as person. What right you have got to say that He is imperson?

Dr. Copeland: I don't say.

Prabhupāda: No, anyone, anyone. What Kṛṣṇa is saying, He is saying as a person. Aham. You know the Sanskrit word? Aham, "I," first person. So why these foolish interpreters, they interpret "imperson"? What right they have got? They have no right. Suppose you are teaching something from your own point of view. What right I have got to say that "This is not Mr. Such and such opinion. What I say, that is opinion"? Is that very good judgment? You are saying something from your point of view, and I poke my nose that "This should be spoken like this." Is this honesty?

Dr. Copeland: It's a difference of opinion.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So immediately to solve all the problems like this is to start an institution to train four classes of men. Begin it. There is no training, how you can expect if you allow a child to smoke from the very beginning and to commit all kinds of sinful activities, how you can expect a nice gentleman when he is grown up? It is not possible. It is possible by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But somebody may not be induced to come and join. But if you train him from the very beginning, then it is possible. Just like we have got our training school, Gurukula, in Dallas, Texas. So from the very beginning, three years, four years, five years old, children they are being trained up. It is not that cent percent men will be trained up spiritually. But even a small percentage ideal men there are in the society, at least people will think, "Oh, here is ideal." But there is no such facility. We are training, sometimes people laugh, "What is this nonsense?" They criticize.

These leaders of the society do not encourage. Yesterday I was talking with one priest. So about illicit sex life he said that "What is the wrong there? It is a great pleasure." We are training, we are advocating that illicit sex is sinful. Our first condition is that one must give up these four things: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling. This is my first condition before accepting. So they agree and they follow.

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee 7: Can a person go back to a spiritual planet...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no more init... Initiation here required when the living entity is in darkness. Just like uneducated person requires to go to school. One who is educated, in his full knowledge, he doesn't go.

Madhudviṣa: The question was, Prabhupāda, is it possible for a person to return to the spiritual world without taking initiation from a bona fide spiritual master?

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī said, ā dau gurv-āśrayam. First business is to accept spiritual master. Ā dau gurv-āśrayam. Who will train him? He is already fool, rascal. He must be trained up. So he must be trained up by the representative of Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee 9: Is second initiation necessary, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Second or first only.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not ideal and neither it is possible. Not that everyone is going to be lawyer. Even though everyone has got the ambition to become a first-class lawyer and earn like anything, but that is not possible. So therefore it requires selection, who will become a lawyer, who will become a scientist, who will become a medical man...

Guest 2: In our society you are taught in school that if you try hard enough, you can become prime minister.

Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no harm. You become prime minister. But I say that not everyone is capable to become prime minister. That has to be. If one man is not capable and if he takes education to become, he will waste his time.

Guest 2: But once you have the idea in your head that you can be prime minister, you don't want to be a laborer.

Prabhupāda: Then you become. But if he is a loafer and he wants to become prime minister, then it will create havoc. Just like in America. He was not fit for the president's post. Nixon was elected. Then again he has to be dragged down. We say the fit man should go to become a particular...

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: What is holiday?

Guest 1: For the school children, yes.

Amogha: Schools are not in session all over Australia.

Prabhupāda: This is winter holiday?

Guest 1: There are three terms. This is the first term holiday.

Amogha: They divide the year into three parts, and after each part they have a holiday.

Prabhupāda: We have got in India two period holiday, summer holiday and Pūjā holiday. There is a season for worshiping different types of demigods. That is called Pūjā. And in India when the summer becomes too hot, that is holiday. (guests prepare to leave) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Guest 1: I wish you a good trip and a happy trip.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Guest 1: And also I hope that the building in Sydney eventuates.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: They do that? (break) Leaders?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break) Yes. So the only way that they can attract them is to just let them free in the school. But I said that... (break)

Prabhupāda: I have seen in the Hawaii University, all hippies.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. In Hawaii it's very loose. For instance, even the high schools, they're mostly very loose. But when, after it gets too loose, then the students go so much into sense gratification that then there becomes... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...solution, they will not take it.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, because it would mean they would have... (break)

Prabhupāda: He is very intelligent.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Dr. Judah, he wanted to see me earlier, no?

Bahulāśva: Yes, he'll be coming here probably on Tuesday or Wednesday. He's just coming from Boston. They had a big library convention there for the theological schools in the United States. So he had to go to speak at that, and then he'll be coming back.

Prabhupāda: Did he speak anything about Hare Kṛṣṇa?

Bahulāśva: He's always speaking about this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. (Prabhupāda chuckles) He gave one lecture just about two weeks ago. It was very very nice. I attended, and I was also speaking something.

Prabhupāda: No, he is serious about studying this movement.

Bahulāśva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is nice. Anyone who is serious, he will appreciate. (break)

Bahulāśva: ...that any intelligent person who hears this philosophy and reads your books, he'll have to accept.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: NBC did an unfair story on Gurukula. They cheated. And I would like to undo that. I would like to go and show that the school is very good.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is very kind of you, but there have been so many attempts to cut down this movement, but they are cheated. They could not do so.

Dr. Gerson: May I try to help?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your real business. In India also, they are still making so much propaganda. They are making propaganda that "These American devotees, they are CIA." (laughter) This propaganda is very strong in India, making the people against these American boys who are preaching. So this is going on. They financed one film, "Hare Krishna." That is spite against us. But still, those who are sincere, they are praising, "Yes, this is a real."

Brahmānanda: In India the effect of that film is just the opposite that everyone is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now appreciate. Yes.

Brahmānanda: It was very popular, the chanting.

Prabhupāda: That "Hare Krishna" film at least helped us in the matter of propagating the Hare Kṛṣṇa word.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: Dr. Gerson would like to publish a book that would be accepted by the scholarly circles so that they would see that our school and our varṇāśrama system is very good for mankind.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Because one of the main arguments against the movement is that we are crazy. So Dr. Gerson, it is his specialty in determining who is sane and who is crazy, and according to his observation, the devotees here are more sane than...

Prabhupāda: So kindly write one book, at least small book, supporting this movement. That will be great service. Actually this should be supported by all sane men, it is so nice. And practically, you see, Dr. Judah has admitted that "You have converted drug-addicted hippies into servant of Kṛṣṇa and servant of humanity." That he has written, that who likes us.

Dr. Gerson: I think the data that I am collecting will support that and show it in terms that other people in psychology and medicine will be able to read.

Prabhupāda: If you read Dr. Judah's book...

Dr. Gerson: I have it, yes.

Prabhupāda: ...you will get many information. He has very scholarly presented. He has made references from so many books.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: At least, they can make this distinction, that our children is not smoking. (laughter)

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And all the school children, they are smoking. So why don't you find this distinction?

Revatīnandana: Not only smoking, but they're smoking drugs in the school.

Prabhupāda: I have seen children, on the street they are smoking. I was surprised. When I came in America I saw small children, they were smoking.

Revatīnandana: One devotee boy, a young boy in Laguna Beach, was telling me that in his school, when he was in high school in Las Vegas, even in the classroom the fifteen, sixteen year old students were smoking marijuana in the classroom of the school.

Prabhupāda: In New York University, I think Brahmānanda?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The students were smoking.

Brahmānanda: You were the first one to say, "Please stop smoking. Otherwise I will not speak." They were shocked. They were stunned at such a request.

Prabhupāda: So what is the psychology of this? They cannot stop smoking. And smoking is admitted, "It is injurious." So how you will do benefit? If you cannot stop the stop the student from smoking, then how you will do him benefit? You know that smoking is bad. So even if you study from psychological point of view and if you cannot rectify the wrong thing, then what is the use of studying? You cannot stop it. So find out the means how to stop it, and that means is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And they will say that because they are not eating meat, they are weak in health.

Dharmādhyakṣa: But their children are not chanting and dancing. You see? In their schools... When people come here and they see the young children chanting and dancing and so energetic, they say, "Where are these children getting their energy?"

Prabhupāda: That is real study.

Dharmādhyakṣa: So actually their children are being repressed. Their children are being enslaved. Their children are very unhappy. The karmī children, they are unhappy. They are not so lively. They don't talk as much. They don't shout and scream, "Haribol! Haribol!" Their parents always make them be quiet, be quiet, be quiet. So actually our children are free.

Dr. Gerson: In this country psychology and psychiatry has become almost like a priesthood, and people look to them for answers. And if one of the people that they take in that way, me, can give them another answer, then perhaps they'll start to turn in another direction, to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Because the psychologists, they are like the gurus nowadays. Rather than reading philosophy books or religion books, everyone is reading psychology books like this I'm OK, You're OK. It was a big best seller. So now Dr. Gerson, he wants to inject in this psychology field... Anyone who is thinking, "Who am I?" He is reading psychology books. This is supposed to be the science of self-realization today. So they're actually more influential than philosophers.

Prabhupāda: Have they advanced about "Who am I?"

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Our books?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, there's a course in each book.

Bahulāśva: This is what Dr. Judah belongs to, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bahulāśva: This is a union of various theological schools. So now in Berkeley we have this very nice building, and we can become a member of this Graduate Theological Union. I have been working with Dr. Judah for about one year, and we've talked about this before. And he said that he will sponsor us.

Prabhupāda: So I shall take it?

Bahulāśva: Yes, he said that he will sponsor us in this union, and then our devotees can study just your books. Maybe they must take an English course, and that would be all we couldn't offer. Then everything else, they can study from your books.

Prabhupāda: Some way or other, if they read my books, they will be benefited. There is no doubt about it.

Bahulāśva: Yes. Then they can get a degree recognized by the state of California so they can teach in universities all over the whole country.

Prabhupāda: That I want. Do it. We want to give degrees, at least B.A., M.A., and Ph.D., according to the advancement of knowledge. And that will be very much beneficial to your country. Then America will be saved from disaster and it will be the leader. The country will be leader of the whole world. Take this advantage.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: ...the colleges and high schools now that the teachers appreciate the philosophy much more than the students. They have more brain substance, and it's even a possibility many of them will actually become devotees if they have more association because devotees are practically the only intelligent people that they ever get to talk to. Even the other members of the faculty, they are not so intelligent to talk to them. But we went to see one philosopher. He's written seventeen books and he's a distinguished professor of philosophy. We talked to him for three hours, a very famous... His books are used all over the country. He said, "My philosophy is closest to this Hare Kṛṣṇa philosophy, after you've explained it to me." He will be coming back. He's going on tour. He's retiring. We're also going to try to get him to come to Berkeley.

Revatīnandana: Is that the one at Pomona College?

Dharmādhyakṣa: No, this is another one at U.S.C., University of Southern California.

Prabhupāda: So some professors wanted to see me?

Jayatīrtha: Yes. In fact, one is coming over this afternoon.

Brahmānanda: Today two are coming.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Actually at the University of Southern California around three or four members of the religion department want to come, including the chairman.

Prabhupāda: So let them come. (break)

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: In the study of theology, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is a section called phenomenology, and phenomenology means the study of the actual practices. So actually, they already have this, but they don't actually practice themselves in their schools. But in our schools we would demand practice. (break)

Bahulāśva: ...could also learn what is Deity worship, how it should be performed. They'd have to learn about chanting...

Prabhupāda: A brāhmaṇa's business is paṭhan pāṭhan yajan yājan danaḥ pratigrahaḥ. Brāhmaṇa means he is learned himself. He is a very erudite scholar. That is brāhmaṇa's first qualification. And he makes others also scholars, not that he remains himself a scholar. This is called paṭhan pāṭhan. Then yajan yājan. Yajan means he worships the Deity, and he teaches others how to worship. Danaḥ pratigrahaḥ. He accepts charity from others, contribution, and he gives it to others. That we have mentioned, I think. What he gets in the day, he gives in the night. So these are six principles to become a brāhmaṇa. Otherwise, if he gets the degree and he smokes, he does not follow, he does not act... Because cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Kṛṣṇa said, "The four divisions are according to quality and work." Whether he is qualified, that will be proved by his work, not that he has taken the degree, and now he is smoking. That is going on. Academic means this. They get the degrees and after that they do all nonsense. That is academic. But this Vedic culture is not like that. He must act. Then it will be all right. (break) ...the western culture, the idea is "Never mind whatever his private character. We don't mind. He has passed Ph.D, so let him become teacher." This is western culture. "By privately, he may be rascal. It doesn't matter." That is not brahminical culture. There is no "private" or "public." Antar bahiḥ. Antar means internally, and bahiḥ means external. We... That chant, that ācamana mantra?

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: '62.

Dharmādhyakṣa: There are schools in the theological union that go back to 1850. In other words, there are... Around ten schools make up the union.

Brahmānanda: When was the union started?

Bahulāśva: 1952, I think.

Prabhupāda: '62.

Bahulāśva: No, '52 I think. The date is in that book.

Prabhupāda: I think it is '62. So what is the result?

Bahulāśva: They haven't produced any pure devotees. Actually, Dr. Judah says that we will add a lot of life to that union because all these other groups are dried up.

Prabhupāda: Well, dried up, but they must agree to follow. Otherwise, it is dead. (break) ...kārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Saṁskāra, reformation, that makes a twice-born. (break) ...na jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ, vedo-pathad bhaved vipro brahmā jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. Everyone is born śūdra, and by undergoing the reformation process, he becomes twice-born. The father is the spiritual master, and the mother is Vedic knowledge. First birth is ordinary father and mother. That even cats and dogs gets. Everyone gets father and mother. Without father and mother, there is no question of birth. That janma is śūdra janma. Then, when he gets second birth by the spiritual father, then he becomes a dvija, twice-born. Again birth. Then he is allowed to study the Vedic literatures. Vedo-pathad bhaved vipraḥ. And when, by studying, he understand the Brahman, then he becomes brāhmaṇa. This is the process. Brahmā jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. And then, after becoming a brāhmaṇa, when he understands Kṛṣṇa, then he becomes Vaiṣṇava. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Siddha means to understand Brahman, and yatatām api siddhānām, and after becoming siddha, one who drives further ahead, out of many of them, one can understand Kṛṣṇa. So we are aiming to that destination, to understand Kṛṣṇa. And then it will be perfect. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, you are fit for going back to home, back to Godhead.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The last one was religiously? Petri, Petri?

Jayatīrtha: Patty.

Prabhupāda: Patty. (break) ...school building.

Brahmānanda: Yes, Venice High School. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...ten thousand dollar prize...

Jayatīrtha: The race track.

Brahmānanda: They are betting, gambling.

Jayatīrtha: Gambling is becoming much more widespread now in America.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have no good business.

Jayatīrtha: The government is using it as a good way of getting more taxes and profits. The government is handling all the lotteries and horse races themselves now more and more.

Prabhupāda: They also get good excise tax from liquor.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: By taking lesson from professors who has mind clear. Why the students are coming to you? Because his mind is not clear. You have to clear his mind by teaching him psychology, feeling, thinking, feeling, willing. Therefore he has to come to a learned man who knows how to understand mind, how to understand the activities of the mind, how to deal with them. That requires education. A dog cannot take this education, but a human being can take. Therefore it is the duty of the human being, how to control the mind, not act like cats and dogs. That is human being. He should be inquisitive, "Why this happening? Why this happening?" and he should take education. That is human life. And if he does not inquire, if he does not take education, then what is the difference between him and the dog? He remains a dog. He has got this opportunity of human life. He should take advantage of understanding what is what, not to keep himself in the dog status, simply eating, sleeping, sex life, and defending. That is the distinction between dog and human being. If he does not become inquisitive how to control the mind, he is not even a human being. A dog never inquires. A dog knows that "When I bark, people become disturbed." He'll never ask, "How to control this barking habit?" Because he is dog, he cannot do that. A human being can know that "People hates me. I do something wrong. How to control my mind?" That is human being. That is the difference between human being and dog. Therefore Vedic injunction is "Go and inquire. You have got this human form of life." Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now, this is the time for inquiring about the soul." Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you want to understand this science, then go to proper guru and take lessons from him. The same thing, as we instruct our children: "If you want to be educated in higher status of life, go to school, go to college, take lesson." That is human society. The dog's father will never ask the dog child, "Go to school." No. They are dogs.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. It is bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga begins with chanting. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). And the more you chant and hear, you become purified. So I think you leaders of your country, you should take this movement very seriously and take it for acceptance. It is not difficult. Chanting. You can chant in school; you can chant in college; you can chant in the factory; you can chant on the street. There is no special qualification required. But if we introduce this chanting, you will be benefited great. There is no loss, but there is great gain.

Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are aware that they advance the argument of mesmerization against chanting. The psychologists do that.

Prabhupāda: That's good. That's good. If you can mesmerize, that will... Now Dr. Judah has admitted that you can mesmerize the drug-addicted hippies and engage them in understanding Kṛṣṇa, is a great achievement. (laughter) Yes.

Dr. Wolfe: That's not mesmerization, of course.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. Dr. Judah has admitted. So if mesmerization is for good, why not accept it? If it is for bad, then it is another thing. If it is doing good, why not accept it? Hmm? What do you think, professor?

Dr. Pore: I don't know how to react. I think I agree with you. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: If it is good... Everything good should be accepted.

Morning Walk -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Nitāi: To teach the Sastris English, he has gone to Māyāpur. They have all gone to Māyāpur because they were facing criticism from the residents of Vṛndāvana. Many of their old schoolmates were criticizing that they are coming and joining us. These are... (break) ...are very desirous of taking initiation from you.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Nitāi: Ananta Ram Sastri and one other, I forget his name. He is very, very good in Sanskrit. He reads it fluently, speaks it fluently.

Prabhupāda: He speaks Sanskrit also?

Nitāi: Yes. Speaks it. He lectures in Sanskrit.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's good.

Nitāi: While he was in Vṛndāvana, we were taking daily a class with him in Bhagavad-gītā. We would read Viśvanātha Cakravartī's commentary.

Prabhupāda: Where is our car? (break)

Brahmānanda: ...they would help us acquire land for a Gurukula. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...sent Praṇava, how is that there is no news about the land? (end)

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Very good news.

Rādhā-vallabha: I went to the press right after maṅgala āratrika, and one of the composers had already run out the door of the temple room, and she was composing already.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) Pālikā is also doing?

Rādhā-vallabha: She's going to school now. she's learning how. She will start tomorrow, I think.

Rāmeśvara: In a few days.

Prabhupāda: She is very expert. (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: ...all night long and they are not getting tired.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Spiritual energy does not get tired. That is spiritual. When we get tired, that is material. Spiritual means one would not feel tired. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Vardhanam means increasing. (break) ...has not come?

Brahmānanda: He left last night for Las Vegas. He will go to Denver. He will see you there.

Prabhupāda: Last night at two o'clock (chuckles) he took film.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Everything, we have got enough facility. We are not going to rent anyone, anyway, any room. We shall utilize it for our purpose only, receiving guest, organizing this book sale. That is my idea.

Jagadīśa: Thank you very, very much for asking me. I will go immediately.

Prabhupāda: You are capable. I know that. He is very capable. You know how to do business, yes. In India an educated man and big, big government officers, lawyers, they will purchase. We do not approach them. School, colleges, library, universities. After all, English language is still current in India. It is not stopped. So they will like to read their own literature in English. They made vigorous propaganda to replace English by Hindi. That has failed. That has failed. No gentleman cares to learn Hindi. (chuckles) At least I never cared. I know Hindi, not by diverting my attention, no. That is very important, no. Automatically whatever I learned, that's all. I am not in favor of that Hindi. Especially in South India, they are all... So by appointing some professional men also.

Brahmānanda: Some agents.

Prabhupāda: Some agents, selling agents. Simply one has to organize vigorously.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Satsvarūpa: He's bluffing.

Prabhupāda: He has simply collected money like anything by this bluff. Now people are asking that. Therefore Dalmia said one of the trustees, "You better give it to Bhaktivedanta Swami." They have seen. They have taken money from them. Or for maintaining the institution he regularly gets money from rich men in Calcutta, Bombay, one thousand, two thousand, 1,500, like that.

Satsvarūpa: He has given the school some title, "Oriental Institute." It is called the Oriental Institute?

Brahmānanda: Institute of Oriental Philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Institute of Oriental Philosophy? Yes. And the students are coming to him with knives. That is his popularity. Amongst his own students, he is threatened with knife. And he has to sign something by such threatening. (end)

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Ghanaśyāma (Bhakti-tīrtha): I've just come back from England, myself and another boy who was doing library work there. We went there after India, the festival. And so many very important schools all around the world, that are known all around the world are taking your books. Our last day was one of our most amazing days. We went to the Indian office library, the British government. Because they have colonized India, they have so many books on India. This was the largest library like that in Europe. And the librarian, he looked at our books and he says, "Yes, we should have all of these." So right on the spot he ordered standing orders, one copy of every book. That same day—this was just three days ago, two days ago—we went to the big...

Prabhupāda: That is Aldridge, Aldridge?

Ghanaśyāma: Yes. This was another one. Aldridge, yes. You have seen that letter? Yes.

Prabhupāda: No, I have not seen any letter.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Standing order?

Ghanaśyāma: No, about ten have taken standing orders, but others have taken books to use for their courses or for their own reading and for their own edification. Big schools like Cambridge, Oxford, as soon as they see the books, they really want them.

Prabhupāda: This is the rarest book. Not only rare, but rarest. There is no book throughout the whole world, such book. (break)

Ghanaśyāma: ...professor, he was reading your Bhagavad-gītā, it was on his desk when I came into his office.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Ten hours. From London to Chicago. Not much, ten hours. (break) ...staying at Bhaktivedanta Manor? No.

Ghanaśyāma: We stayed there most of the time. And the first two weeks we stayed at Bury Place because there are about six schools that are in walking distance from the Bury Place temple.

Prabhupāda: So everything is going right?

Ghanaśyāma: Oh, yes, cultivating very nice. The president there, he is taking out the saṅkīrtana party himself, and the whole temple has become very enthused by this. Bury Place.

Prabhupāda: How many devotees are there?

Ghanaśyāma: Bury Place, there's about... There are three traveling saṅkīrtana parties. There are about maybe thirty devotees there.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. And Bhaktivedanta Manor?

Ghanaśyāma: I think about maybe thirty-five. Some of the boys go to Scotland frequently. So they sort of share the devotees with the three temples.

Prabhupāda: Edinburgh. So you have been in Edinburgh University?

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Mrs. Wax: Thank you. It's an honor to be here. Because I wrote the article about Gurukula, I'm interested in what has happened there. I was there last summer. Do you have plans for other schools? And what is happening with Gurukula now? Is it standing?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jayatīrtha: She wants to know what our plan is for Gurukula, whether we want to start other Gurukulas in other places... (child noises)

Prabhupāda: (Aside:) Hmm, this child... So you can explain what is the idea of Gurukula.

Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) ...talking of other things. Generally he likes to address more philosophical questions.

Mrs. Wax: All right.

Jayatīrtha: Because the questions about the future of the society. Others devotees can answer this. Well, the philosophical questions that are not daily (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: We want to raise first-class man. Try to understand. The present society, we are creating fourth-class men. Therefore we are not in very happy condition. We want to raise the fourth-class man to first-class man. First-class man means with qualification who can control the mind, control the senses, always very cleansed and truthful, very simple, full of all kinds of knowledge, practical application in life, then to have full knowledge of God, these are the characteristics of first-class man. So at the present moment everyone is a fourth-class man. So we want to get some first-class men. That is required. Because there is no idea, first-class man, therefore people are becoming full of crimes. You have seen the article in the Time? "Crime, Why and What to Do?" That is the concern of the materialistic society. So we are trying to raise a group of men who will be ideal. Just like our devotees. You will find their characters different from all others, at least in your country. They do not have illicit sex, they do not eat meat, they do not have any intoxication, even smoking or taking tea, they do not indulge in gambling, they chant holy name of God, lead very simple life. So we are creating first-class men. There is need. It is not that everyone will become first-class man, but at least a section of man must be first-class so that others can see that what is the ideal character of man. So this Gurukula means from the childhood age we are training them so that in future it will be easier. That is the purpose of Gurukula.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: This is nonsense, to give free choice to the child. This is nonsense. Child should be protected. That is intelligence. That is the wrong type of consciousness. According to Vedic civilization, a child, a woman, a brāhmaṇa, a cow, and an old man they should be given protection, not freedom, but protection.

Jayatīrtha: At the same time in that Time article it discussed that about fifty percent of the crime was done by children under eighteen and people are afraid even to go to the schools.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not educated properly. Not only that they have given photograph: the children take small..., yes, weapon, knife. And examination is held under police vigilance. This is the education.

Mrs. Wax: Some of us are parents of devotees and when you came to America nine years ago, eight years ago...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mrs. Wax: ...some young people were attracted to the message and responded and joined Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Is there a special reason? What explanation do you have why some...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The special reason was... That was published in one paper, Voice East. What is that?

Devotees: Village Voice.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Woman reporter: There's one more question I'm going to ask. Is that tea? Is that tea that you're drinking?

Prabhupāda: No, we don't drink tea. We don't drink tea, don't drink liquor. We don't smoke. This is our process, no illicit sex, no meat eating, no intoxication, no gambling. Unless one is married, there is no sex. And unless one is going to beget child, there is no sex. Not for pleasure. This is our regulative principle.

Woman reporter: You have different schools for men and women, is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Man is regulated to become a first-class man, and woman is regulated to become very chaste and faithful wife.

Woman reporter: There is one more question.

Prabhupāda: Then the life will be very successful. And marriage, compulsory. Marriage, compulsory.

Woman reporter: Everyone should marry?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every woman, at least, should be married. Therefore, according to Vedic conception, polygamy is allowed.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Reporter: When does this training begin? In the very youngest age or...

Prabhupāda: Training, every training should begin from childhood. Just like you send your boys and girls to school. So any educational system should be begin from childhood.

Reporter (2): What is the secret to learning to love God?

Prabhupāda: Secret of learning God?

Jagadīśa: Learning to love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The secret—that he must be a first-class man. Otherwise he does not understand what is God, and what to speak of loving Him.

Reporter (3): What is the definition again of a first-class man?

Prabhupāda: First-class man? Where is that Bhagavad-gītā?

Brahmānanda: Bhagavad-gītā, they did not bring.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) What is the nonsense? You are all nonsense. First-class man, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that he should first of all try to..., not try, practice how to control the mind, how to control the senses. Then he must be truthful. He must be very clean, outside and inside. He must be very simple. He must be tolerant. He must be full of knowledge. He must apply knowledge in practical life. And he must believe in God. These are the qualification of the first-class man.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So still they are rowing house? No.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. It is a big sport. They race. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...idea is there in the western countries? No.

Kīrtanānanda: Not very much. Although the idea is there that the best education can be secured when boys are separate in school. That idea is there. The best families have always sent their sons away to school.

Prabhupāda: That should be followed in our system. Boys and girls must be separate. (break) ...introduce now. How long? What is time?

Brahmānanda: It's still a little early.

Prabhupāda: Early? (break)

Guru dāsa: The concept in sport of celibacy is also there. The best sportsmen are supposed to not take intoxicants or also engage in sex life. That was the training. (break)

Ravīndra-svarūpa: ...will end in this park here.

Prabhupāda: Oh. It will come this way?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: It will come from the other direction and end here. Down under these trees is a very nice place. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...going through the city?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: We go through the city.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: Well, I think there's always been castes. It's just that we don't recognize the fact that they're there.

Prabhupāda: No, recognize means if a man is qualified medical man we accept him as medical man. And if a man is qualified engineer, we accept him as engineer. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā suggests—not suggest, it is there—there are four classes of men, the most intelligent class of men, the administrator class of men, the productive class of men and ordinary worker. That is already there. Bhagavad-gītā says how they should be classified, that "He belongs to this class, he belongs to that class." That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, not that by birth, hereditarily, one becomes a caste. You don't try to misunderstand. The classification is already there: one class of men, very intelligent. Is he not there in the human society? Do you think all men are equally intelligent? Do you think? There must be one class, very highly intelligent class. So what are the symptoms of the intelligent class? That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. The first-class intelligent man... (break) ...you find all these qualities, he is first-class man. So we are trying to introduce that, that without first-class man, the society is useless. So there are first-class men. You train up. Just like a boy is intelligent; still, he requires training in the school, college. Then he maintains his first-class brain, first-class position. So there is first-class man. Now we have to train them properly how to become controller of the mind, how to become controller of the senses, how to become truthful, how to become cleansed internally, externally, how to become full of knowledge, how to try to apply the knowledge in practical life, how to become God conscious.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: She has divorced two husbands. And when the press reporters asked her, she replied, "Yes, it was a mistake." And still, they want to be equal with man. She commits mistake twice in two week, and still she claims to be equal with man. So we have got our school, Dallas, we are teaching the small children to make the boys first-class men, as it is enunciated in the Bhagavad-gītā, and woman to become very faithful and chaste. That's all. This is our education. Then it will be very happy home and people will live very peacefully, and then other things can be executed. If the home is not peaceful, always disturbed in mind, and one has to adopt twice in a week divorce, then how there can be peace? This is not freedom, this is disturbance. Freedom does not mean disturbance of peace. Freedom means that maintenance of peace.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: God conscious president.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy? Just like in the forest the small animals like cats and dogs and asses, they are very much afraid of the lion, tiger. And they accept lion as the king of forest. But he may be lion or tiger and elected by asses and cats and dogs, but he is nothing but animal. Will any human being accept the lion as human being? No. He knows that he is an animal. Maybe he is voted by the small animals. So that is the position. At the present moment the mass of people are kept in their animal consciousness. And therefore they elect another big animal to become president. Their idea is to have animal strength, jaws and nails and very powerful—"Oh, he is God," or "He is president." They cannot select anyone else. But formerly, in the Vedic civilization, a king was elected by the first-class men of the society, the saintly persons, the brāhmaṇas. They did not take part in politics, but they recommended that "This man should..." Just like Kṛṣṇa. He wanted Yudhiṣṭhira must be the king. Because king is supposed to be God's representative, how to rule over, not that these cats and dogs will find out a lion and vote him to the chair. That is not the process. Your modern process is that the electors, they are not trained up, and they elect another big animal to become the president. Therefore it is failure. All over the world this is going on. This so-called democracy... Unless people are very much trained up, the election by the mass is not very good. Rather, a first-class men, they should nominate that "This man should be president." That will be nice. Your question was "How to find out president, good"? So this is the process. So there is no intelligent class of man. That is the difficulty. Who is trying to control his mind, control his senses? This is the first condition to become a first-class man. As soon as a man sees a beautiful woman, immediately his mind is agitated. Where is the control? And as soon as the mind is agitated, the senses are agitated. And this is the first condition of the first-class man, that he should not be agitated in his mind, and agitated by senses. This is the first condition. So where is that school who is training to, how to control the mind, how to control the senses, how to become truthful, how to become cleansed, internally, externally. These are the signs of first-class men. So we are trying our little bit to make some men as first class. This is our teeny effort.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: More... Bhāgavatam, I told you, it is a counterpart. Just like when you have passed the school examination then next you admit yourself for degree or graduate degree. Similarly, Bhāgavata is the end of education. Everyone is progressing. When one comes to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and understands it then his education is complete.

Prof. Hopkins: Then would it be, would it be dangerous for someone who is not at that level to study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or would they simply not understand it?

Prabhupāda: Dangerous means if one is not completely educated of self-realization he has the risk of degradation.

Prof. Hopkins: He has what?

Prabhupāda: The risk of degradation. Now I have got human form of body, I may degrade to animal. Because transmigration of the soul. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara prāptir, after death one gets another body. Now, what kind of body, that depends on his work. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). If he has done very nicely, in goodness, then he will be promoted to the higher planetary system. And if he has not done anything nice then he will remain here or he will be degraded to the lower planetary system.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: ...parvato muākam aprasavat: "Himalaya will give birth children." So many people gathered, "Must be very gigantic." But they saw only rats are coming. (break)

Bahulāśva: ...is from this school, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Where is Yadubara?

Bahulāśva: Right here, Yadubara.

Brahmānanda: Poor Yadubara. (laughter)

Yadubara: I am one of the rats. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...also? No.

Harikeśa: Viśakha? No. (break)

Yadubara: ...four years, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and I was full of anxiety all the time. (break)

Dharmādhyakṣa: ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, more pictures of rats and pigeons than human beings. In the modern textbooks of psychology you find more pictures of rats and pigeons than human beings.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Dharmādhyakṣa: Because they feel that they can study the behavior of rats and pigeons very easily, much more easily than a human being. They can manipulate them. And then they extrapolate from their data on the rats and pigeons as to what human behavior is.

Prabhupāda: So, but they say that except man, there is no soul?

Jayatīrtha: But now they say that no one has a soul.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Dharmādhyakṣa: One school. Then there's another school. They say, "How can you base a theory of human nature on animals?" They do not like this. They are revolting against making man an animal.

Bahulāśva: Bhagavad-gītā gives the best psychology.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: How to control the mind to uplift the self.

Prabhupāda: (break) So why the dogs cannot construct such building? (break) ...psychology? Why they haven't got the same psychology?

Dharmādhyakṣa: Well, the scientists would say that "We have the same psychology. We have a material psychology, the dog has a material psychology, but we're just a little more advanced, that's all."

Prabhupāda: So similarly, there may be others who are still advanced. Therefore the most advanced is God. This should be the psychology. As we see there is difference between dogs and hogs and man, so go on. Search out. So when you find out the most intelligent person, then he is God. (break) ...parataraṁ nānyat. That is statement of Bhagavad-gītā: "No more intelligent. Here, ultimate. I am God." So from psychological point of view how they can deny God?

Yadubara: No one is teaching that in this big university. Therefore the students are very discouraged, depressed.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

abhupāda: And what is the benefit of remaining with the parents to become hippies? For training. We are trying to train first-class men. So if, from the very beginning of life, one is trained... That is the Vedic civilization. Kaumāraṁ ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. "One should be trained up to become God conscious from the very beginning of life," kaumāra. Kaumāra means after five years. Up to five years the children may have all freedom. Whatever he likes, he may do. But when he is five years old, he must be under training. That is the old system. Gurukula means to send the boy, especially boy, not the girl, to be trained up at the place of the spiritual master or teacher. Just like what is that public school? They also send their small children to the public school. Montesori? What is that?

Bahulāśva: Montesori school.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the small children are trained up. It is something like that.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Yadubara: ...problem of suicide here, but in all schools all over the country.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are publicly suiciding, and others are silently suiciding. The suiciding policy is going on. Somebody manifests; somebody does not manifest. That's all. If the human life is wasted for sense gratification, that is suicidal. Because you got the opportunity of enlightenment and you live like dogs and cats, this is suicide. (break) This, what is called, hydrogen bomb manufacturer, he is thinking that he is successful in his life by discovering this hydrogen bomb. but he does not know how to save him from death. So it is suicidal.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Oh. And sweets?

Bahulāśva: Oh, around five thousand. (laughter) The tongue is most voracious.

Yadubara: I talked to one boy yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he was there at the festival because he had found your books in the school library. And he said now he was saved.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) Kṛṣṇa dāsa, some scientists say that there is no life in the other planets, and some scientists said there may be. So who is correct?

Paramahaṁsa: Well, didn't the Yamadūtas... You stated in your lecture yesterday that the Yamadūtas said that what is truth is what is in the Vedas. So I assume from the Vedic knowledge that there is life on other planets. Logically speaking also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. How can you say there is no life?

Paramahaṁsa: But the scientists are saying, though, that the nearest star to our... You know, they consider the sun a star. And that the nearest star to ours is four light years away. Which means that it's... They do not believe that there's life in this entire solar system, in the planets nearest us, the moon, Venus, Mercury, Mars, Neptune, Jupiter. They assume it's either too cold...

Prabhupāda: No, we say in the sun there is life. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "I spoke this Bhagavad-gītā science to the sun-god." So? Sun-god is dead stone, and Kṛṣṇa spoke to him?

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Little faith... Therefore you associate. Just like we are inviting this morning lecture. Coming, coming, coming, coming-faith will come.

Yadubara: They will not come.

Prabhupāda: They will not come. Then he is condemned. Let them remain animals. If you don't go to school, there is no question of education. Where is the question of education? One must go to the school with faith that "I will be educated." That is required.

Yadubara: But if they take some prasādam, that will help them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your mercy, that you are... He is faithless rascal. "All right, you take prasādam. That will help you." Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: You may be pleased to know that Karttikeya... He said he's looking forward to going to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise why he is coming again? (chuckles) There must be some faith.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Sudāmā: I spoke with him the other day, and he said now he's getting a degree, but now he does not know what to do with it. So he sees that all of his activity of going to school and getting degrees is useless waste of time if there's no connection with Kṛṣṇa.

Citsukhānanda: Actually, nobody could leave your lotus feet, Prabhupāda. Once they've come and tasted this bliss of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nobody could leave. Everyone comes back. Sometimes we become confused a little, but nobody can leave you.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. (break) ...Mukunda, Mukunda, or Murāri? Mukunda. He was going everywhere. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected him. "Don't let this rascal to come here." You know that? Mukunda. (indistinct) (break) ...api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata āntarātmanā, then?

Devotees: Śraddhāvān bhajate yo mām.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Śraddhāvān, That is required. If he has no faith, then he remains in darkness.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Satsvarūpa: Humility.

Prabhupāda: Humility. So who is teaching? Where is the school teaching humility? This is the first item. Then? Next?

Satsvarūpa: Adambhitvam, pridelessness.

Prabhupāda: Pridelessness. Everyone is proud. Then?

Satsvarūpa: Ahiṁsā, nonviolence.

Prabhupāda: Nonviolence. These are the first three steps toward the path of knowledge, and who is practicing this? Nobody is practicing. You are professor of?

Professor: Yes, I'm an instructor, yes.

Devotee: What subject matter?

Professor: In religious studies.

Prabhupāda: What is your definition of religion?

Professor: My definition of religion? I think religion has mostly to do with the kinds of questions people ask. Religion is the attempt to answer questions about "Who am I? and "Who is God?" and "How do I relate to God?"

Prabhupāda: That is nice. That is the meaning. So do the people in general know what is God?

Professor: People in general... Today most people have an idea, but they don't all agree. So you can't say that they all have an idea of God. But they all believe they do.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Death.

Devotee (4): Yes. (laughter) And decrease the number of births. It is called Zero Population Growth, and they are actually thinking like this.

Prabhupāda: And who is going to decrease the population of the mosquito? It is increasing. This means real business they are forgetting.

Devotee (4): So in every school they have so many organizations. Is this a good idea, that we can have debating programs like this along with selling books.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let them study another line of education. Just like there is religious section. It has nothing to do with the engineering, but there is section. Similarly, in religious section or in another section these things should you study, Bhāgavata. That is good. Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavata.

Jayatīrtha: Shall we take your leave now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Rāmeśvara: Jaya, thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Press Conference at Airport -- July 28, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: (leads prema-dhvāṇī) (break)

Woman reporter: Are you familiar with the new law in Texas which will affect your school here, and have you considered what...? There is a new law in Texas putting your school here under the same regulations as other boarding schools. And I wonder if you have considered how that will affect your school and whether you will be able to continue here.

Prabhupāda: That will be answered by this person. He is in charge of that institution.

Woman reporter: We have discussed it, but I wondered if the Swami had any views.

Jagadīśa: Well, Śrīla Prabhupāda has given me the responsibility to make sure that we meet the necessary code standards so that the school will definitely go on. That is our plan, to meet all the standards and continue on with our current activities.

Woman reporter: Well, the regulation, for example, that there must be a bed for each child. How are you going to...

Jagadīśa: Yes, we'll have beds. Yes.

Man reporter: Swami, why are you here?

Jagadīśa: Why are you here, Śrīla Prabhupāda? He asked why are you here?

Prabhupāda: Why?

Jagadīśa: Why are you here? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: This is my home. (laughter) I have got so many children, grandchildren. So I have come to see them.

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: That is their rascaldom. One wants to be learned without going to the school. Is it possible? So they are rascals. What can be done? They don't want to go to school and take the training, and they want to pass M.A. examination. This is their proposal. So these rascals should be kicked out. That's all.

(break) ...is: tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena (BG 4.34). First of all you surrender; then you ask question. The rascals first of all will question. And when he is satisfied, they will surrender. This is not the process. The process is first of all surrender; then question. Otherwise you have no right to question, waste time. (break) ...is the sinful part of water. This is sinful part. There is sinful water and pious water also. So this water is sinful. Drinking of this water is prohibited.

Harikeśa: In America they use maple syrup a lot, maple syrup. Is that also part of the sinful reaction for the trees? Yes.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...eḥ?

Viśvakarma: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Only fuel. They are called fuel. They are meant for using as fuel. (break)

Viśvakarma: ...Ontario, Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is known as the fruit belt, in this area. But now they are ripping up all the orchards and putting in factories.

Prabhupāda: Whatever they do, they do it for factories so that people may be exploited very easily.

Morning Walk -- August 15, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Three lakhs gone. (break) ...from Mrs. Nair. From her this transaction was completed. Whether municipality finished this transaction by paying competitive... Simply by marking is not conclusion of the business. (break) If they want it... (break)

Gopal Kṛṣṇa: Their value is increasing due to our temple also, because now they advertise in the papers, "Next to Hare Kṛṣṇa mandir."

Girirāja: Even Matrey wants to make a school here, and he put a map, and in the map is "Hare Kṛṣṇa mandir."

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) ...this land will be banyan, full of banyans. (break) ...many obstacles we are facing. Never mind. Still, we are coming out, gradually. Kuntīdevī said, "Kṛṣṇa, all those dangerous days may come again so that I can always remember You. Now... When we were in dangerous days You were always with us. Now we are prosperous; now You are going away. So better I call for again those dangerous days so that You can remain and we can become surrendered to You." (break) ...country, I started on this ocean, thirteenth August, thirteenth August, this ferocious ocean. Everyone said, "This time you don't go by sea."

Brahmānanda: It's the worst season.

Prabhupāda: Yes, worst season.

Morning Walk -- August 25, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just house? Oh. Nobody is living?

Gurṇārṇava: Yes, they're living.

Prabhupāda: (to a passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Bengali)

Jayapatāka: It seems that when the schools allow the outside teachers in, then it falls down.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayapatāka: When the schools allow outside professional teachers into the institutions, then they seem to go down.

Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately.

Jayapatāka: I was investigating in West Bengal. So long as you have your own teachers and you don't take any aid from them, then all they have to do is see that your grounds are up to the..., buildings are up to the standard. They don't have much say.

Prabhupāda: That we want. Jaya.

Morning Walk -- August 29, 1975, Vrndavana:

Akṣayānanda: That means there is no work.

Prabhupāda: But no educated man, at least in India, is interested any more with philosophy and preaching. No Indian. (Aside) Jaya. (break)

Akṣayānanda: ...preach more, then that would help? Because he was previously a principal of a school.

Prabhupāda: No, how he is preaching? Have you heard? No, you cannot understand in Hindi.

Akṣayānanda: Hindi.

Prabhupāda: Anyone?

Dhanañjaya: We've been told he preaches nicely.

Prabhupāda: I have told him that "You simply read my books and reproduce it. That's all. That will be preaching."

Akṣayānanda: At least when he speaks to me in English, it's always very nice.

Brahmānanda: He can memorize Prabhupāda's books and then just speak it.

Prabhupāda: That is preaching. Our process is anuśṛṇuyāt. We hear from the superior and reproduce it. That is śravaṇaṁ-kīrtanam. Then perfect. If I add something, my own imagination, then it will spoil. No addition-alteration; as it is. As it is you hear from your spiritual master, reproduce. That's all. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). This 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa is coming by paramparā, so you reproduce. That's all. Even a child can reproduce what he has heard from his father. It is not at all difficult. (break) ...cheap rate.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is something good.

Brahmānanda: When I was a teacher in New York I taught in one of their schools. I taught the little children... (break)

Prabhupāda: After that, he is fit down(?). Then, if life member comes, he can simply stay in the guest room without any charges for three days. (break)

Dhṛṣṭaketu: ...that one is making progress by how he feels, or should he just simply execute the order of the spiritual master and not worry about how he feels? How should... In other words...

Prabhupāda: If he is making progress, he must feel. If he is not making progress, then he will not feel.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: And that feeling is a willingness to serve Kṛṣṇa or...

Prabhupāda: No, that is always. Whether he is actually serving Kṛṣṇa... That is devotion. So if he is actually serving Kṛṣṇa, then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt bhajana-kriyā. Bhajana-kriyā means anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. This is the result. If his anartha is not decreasing, or becoming zero, then he is not making bhajana. He is doing something else.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Take as many bricks as you like. And we have got one address. You have taken, Agra, they will supply this lime. (break) (Hindi) ...rich men. Still, they are adulterating cement. (Hindi) (break) I heard it from very reliable source, my teacher. He was second teacher in my school, graduate, very good gentleman. He said that Edward VIII, er, VII, he was stealing jewels. You see?

Indian man (3): A very bad habit.

Prabhupāda: Emperor of British Empire, and he was a thief. Just see.

Brahmānanda: You've said that a fly sitting on a throne is still a fly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...one gentleman, young man, he was very rich man's son. He would come in the evening in the Howrah station nicely dressed and would approach any gentleman, "Sir, I am very sorry. I have lost my purse. Can you give me? Otherwise I cannot return." So he will collect five, ten rupees and go to a restaurant and eat and go home. (break) It is the second nature. Now the door is open? We can go?

Kartikeya: Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: To cleanse the heart, beginning of cleanse the heart, that everyone is cats and dogs and so-called human beings... They are under the bodily concept of life. It has to be cleansed, that "You are not this body." If he understands that, then he will understand other things. This is the beginning of knowledge. But where is that knowledge? No school, no college, teaches this thing. So they remain in ignorance. What is this education if he remains in ignorance? (break) ...kinds of advertisement.

Cyavana: That is their propaganda. (break)

Prabhupāda: There was no... We don't require all these things because we know others are victims. They pay for it. And they work hard for the money and pay to work. That's all. Our men never touch this Coca-cola and cigarette, but others, they are mad after it.

Brahmānanda: They say they have to work so hard to get food, but actually they are working hard for this.

Prabhupāda: He'll get food. Food they can grow very easily, but they... Anartha. This is called anartha. Anartha means unnecessarily. Ādau śraddh tata sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriy tato 'nartha-nivṛtti syāt. So anartha-nivṛtti civilization, not anartha increasing. Civilization means anartha-nivṛtti syāt because we are complicated by the anarthas, unwanted things. (break) ...this way there is bulls, horses for transport. But what is the use of these big, big motorbuses and acquire petrol, machine, factory, so many things? But nature's way there is already means of transport. The horses are there. The bulls are there. But they will eat them, and they will create these motor big, big buses and then petrol, then fight.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. When we are many in number, then we shall take politics also. Yes. First of all let there be perfect men. If there is no perfect men, the government will be imperfect. If there is perfect men, the government will be perfect.

Guest (4) (Indian man): Do you think, Swamiji, that man can become perfect?

Prabhupāda: That is the chance of a human being. Therefore in the human society there is school, college, education, culture, not in the animal society, because they can be made into perfect, not the animals. So if they are denied proper education, that is the greatest harm. They got the opportunity, and the authorities are not giving them their opportunity.

Guest (4): No, but do you mean the perfectness is to become God or to become the man? Then I want...

Prabhupāda: You never become God.

Guest (4): What does perfectness mean?

Prabhupāda: Perfect means to become godly.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Formerly they were satisfied by tilling the ground, getting food grains. Now they have started factories. At the cost of thousands of men's labor, some director is getting money and enjoying life. That is progress. And these rascals, laborers, they are thinking that "These men are getting the profit, cream of this business. We are working. Why not take ourself?" That is Communism.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is one small coal mining town we did saṅkīrtana at, an Indian community. And they were thinking that "The coal mine is doing everything for us. They're giving us schools, they're giving us medicine, they're giving us... Without the coal mine where would we be?"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: Here they think it's sugarcane. The sugarcane is everything.

Prabhupāda: Giving everything.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why can't people understand to depend on Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: There is māyā.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just like air that we breathe.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is māyā, no education. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are giving intelligence; therefore they are understanding. But there is no such propaganda. There was no such propaganda.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Then you'll kill me.

Harikeśa: You would not go to school either.

Prabhupāda: I don't like... Yes.

Harikeśa: You were telling us last year, you wanted to play mṛdaṅga.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The bus is coming.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...disagreement between my father and mother. My father would give me all independence, and mother was going that "You are spoiling the child by giving too much independence."

Harikeśa: Just see.

Prahupada: That is going on. Just like Mother Yaśodā. She would chastise Kṛṣṇa. But you will never find Nanda Mahārāja is ever chastising. Rather, when Kṛṣṇa was chastised, Nanda Mahārāja would come back and take Him on the lap: "All right, I shall punish Your mother," and call him (her?), chastise. And then Kṛṣṇa will stop His mouth: "No, no. Don't do this." It is natural that when the child is in the lower stage, minor stage, the mother takes more care. That is natural. (break) Such a big planet, sun, six months rotating on the northern side of the equator, six months on the southern side. It is never changed.

Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Because they will hear Hare Kṛṣṇa. Not only trees and plants. The insects and everyone, they will have the opportunity of hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will benefit.

Guest (1): If we have got this act, Swamijī, here itself we can organize it. For example, we are getting holidays in November, school holidays, twenty-first November. So we can put it in the newspaper that "Those who are interested, young people from fifteen or twenty to thirty or forty, these people can send their letters and they would come. So we can answer them through newspaper, also radio, through TV, so that they would come...

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you do organize, then I shall stay. It is very good program. Let us give it some shape with your good cooperation. So Kṛṣṇa is giving you intelligence. He is giving so nice program. So do it practically.

Guest (1): And we can conquer out there.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtana is so powerful that it will conquer. It will be victorious. So I am very glad to meet you. And do this program. And if you like, I shall come back after a week and do. Utilize me in this way, I shall be very glad. That's all right.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The police?

Prabhupāda: No, not police. Any responsible office. They are equally open? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They have facility. The philosophy of the government is that they have separate development. This is why they call it a apartheid. They have separate hospitals for the Indians. They have separate schools.

Prabhupāda: And for the black?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: For the Africans? They don't have so much now. Very poor facility.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So the government gives facilities to the Indians, but separately.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Not with them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not with them.

Prabhupāda: That is not bad.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Education?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't think that education is free for Africans, is it?

Devotee (1): It's very, very cheap, but not for the colored, of course.(?) There are probably many more African schools than European schools, because there are so many Africans, it's very difficult...

Prabhupāda: On the whole, the white man is governing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, completely.

Prabhupāda: They are keeping, governing. This is Indian house. Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is Indian shopping, all Indian shops here. From here back is all Indian.

Prabhupāda: So the European come here to shop, for shopping?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: They are Indians or, these, white?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Muslims. Most of these Muslims originally from Gujarat side. Their forefathers came here.

Prabhupāda: They are called Boris. (pronounces "Boreez") Boris Muslim.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Boris Muslim.

Prabhupāda: They were formerly Hindus. All Muslims were Hindus formerly.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: So it's a long...

Prabhupāda: No, it is very nice, but at the present moment in the name of meditation, simply cheating and bluffing going on. They do not know what is the subject matter of meditation. Besides that, in this age, mind is so agitated that you cannot concentrate. I have seen the so-called meditation. They are regularly sleeping and snoring. They do not know. Yes. This is going on. So unfortunately, in the name of God consciousness or this self-realization, so many not standardized methods are being presented by the so-called bluffers without any reference to the authoritative books and knowledge, Vedic knowledge. It is another type of exploitation.

Faill: What about some of the other schools that have grown up, people like Ouspensky and Gurdjieff and people who've brought a message similar to yours to the West in the past?

Prabhupāda: What we have to study particularly whether it is standard. Otherwise they may speak so many things, but if they do not know what is the standard... Just like medical science or any science, that is one. It cannot be different because it is spoken by different men. That is not one. That is not science. "Two plus two equal to four"—this is a science that is true everywhere, not that because it is spoken by somebody else it becomes "two plus two equal to five" or "three." No.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: It's just another way of looking out.

Prabhupāda: No. That means it is simply talking. It has no realization. Unless you understand that you are not this body—you are spirit soul—there is no question of inward. That we have to study first of all, whether I am this body, or I am something within this body. That is inward. But that they do not understand. There is no education in the school, college or university. Everyone is thinking "I am this body." You see? Just like in this country, everywhere: "We are South African. They are Indian. They are this. They are this. They are this." So whole bodily concept, the whole world... "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means it starts when one is above the bodily conception of life. Then the starting begins.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Prof. Olivier: What must you do then?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Therefore in America many of our students, they are teaching courses at the university. I for one, I have a B.Sc. in chemistry. I'm actually a graduate in chemistry. I had a four-year scholarship to medical school and some of the other devotees are also graduates, and they are actually teaching in the universities.

Prabhupāda: If you want some of our student to teach, he can do that.

Prof. Olivier: I think one must make a start somewhere, either by getting specialist lectures or lecturers at least to start.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We could always assist in some way in an objective presentation so that the students don't feel that they're being biased in any way. This is the idea of science. Let them draw their own conclusions. Just simply present the facts and let them come to their own conclusion. The main idea, though, is the authenticity. There's no use in studying something if it's simply mental speculation, which, of course, the Vedic scriptures mean that. They've been passed down for so many thousands of years intact, and the most important thing is to get a chance to read the originals in our own language, English, or Afrikaans, whatever it may be. We're also translating into Afrikaans the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Prof. Olivier: Is that so?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Some of the girls are very, very proficient and they're doing this now, and we hope that within a year or so's time we'll have a polished copy to print. We're working in this direction.

Prof. Olivier: I see.

Prabhupāda: If this line of activity is taken seriously, sometimes I may come and teach them. Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Oh, the organizations.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Different organizations in Durban. Six p.m.

Indian man (3): Six p.m. Yes. I will send a message to him today.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Also Dr. Desai, his brother.

Indian man (3): Yes. Dr. Desai has been very helpful in establishing societies and schools and charitable organizations. Yes, I will also send a message to Dr. Desai to come and see you. Dr. Desai sacrificed all his medical practice and all for the people.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Indian man (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: (wind blowing) Pranair arthair dhiya vacaḥ śreya acaraṇam... (break) ...by words, by intelligence, everyone should serve Kṛṣṇa, then life is successful. Pranair arthair dhiya vacaḥ.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Hospitals, there are many, but real hospitals... to cure the material disease, there is no hospital. They are... There are hundreds and thousands of hospitals for curing the disease of the body, but there is no hospital to cure the disease of the soul. That is the defect. So we are opening hospital for curing the disease of the soul. They have no information about the soul throughout the whole world. Even so-called religious organizations, they have no information about the soul. They go to religious ceremonies for material profit. They do not know what is the necessity of the soul and what is the disease of the soul. They do not know. (break) ...nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. What is the goal of life, these people, they do not know, mūḍhas. Mūḍha means rascals, gadha. They do not know what is the goal of life. They take calculation of the duration of life, that fifty, sixty, or hundred years. That's all. Beyond this, after this, they do not know. Yes. That is the defect. (break) Now, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that this temporary attempt to become happy-antavanta phalaṁ teṣām—it will end with the end of the body. But they do not know beyond this. Therefore alpam-medhasām, they are less intelligent. Just like a child playing. He likes to play and does not go to school. So do you think that is all right?

Indian man (3): No.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Free.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And advertise, "If you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry. Your health will be improved," and so on, so on. In this way they distribute pamphlet and giving free. Just like we distribute prasādam, they used to distribute very tasteful tea, and people liked it: "Oh, it is very nice." Then they began to drink. Vigorous propaganda. And culturally, in our school days they wrote… One Mr. N. Ghosh, he, bribed by the Britishers, he wrote one book, England's Work in India. So all the, just like Sati rites…

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sati rite.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That "Later on, after the death of husband in some places the wife was forced to go to the fire, so the Britishers stopped it. And they introduced railway for going to the pilgrims and so many, and they constructed bridges to make easy to go from one country to another." And people took it very seriously, that British government is very nice. And they were publishing in outside country that "India is uncivilized. We are making them civilized. And as soon as they are civilized, then we hand over the charge to them. That is our noble mission." And they were exploiting. All raw materials was being taken away and the necessities of India, especially cloth, was being supplied. And the local weavers, their hands cut off. So many thing they, tainting… And everything bad. Just like Jawaharlal Nehru. He became a first-class victim.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Nehru?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I know one Gujarati school, they have a book. And in the book it is taught that Gandhi, Nehru…

Prabhupāda: That is propaganda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is propaganda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) … in the last fifty years or so that especially that the Indian culture has been squashed and perverted by the British.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because of mass communication, Prabhupada? Is that because of mass communication?

Prabhupāda: Mass communication or no…

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Radio, and things like this.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you want to make mass communication, you can do anything. (break) Due to industrialization, all intelligent men, they came in the city. In the village it was deserted. So there was no improvement in the village, and people preferred to come to the city, means industry, business. So India's basic principle was village life. Now that is lost. The intelligent class men, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they left villages for earning more money in the cities, and only the śūdras, less intelligent class of men, less than śūdras, they remained. So what they will do? So village became deserted. Still you’ll go and see in Indian villages, especially in Bengal, so many big, big palatial buildings, they are lying vacant.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: These things in different way, that "Come to your pure knowledge and make your plan. Then you will be happy. And if your basic principle is wrong, then whatever plan you make, it is useless."

Reporter: Yes. But, you see, the thing that worries me is that how do people begin to understand that their basic principle might be wrong?

Prabhupāda: Just as one goes to a school and gradually he understands what is one, what is two, what is three, what is "two plus two equal to four," how to place. It is a question of learning, education.

Reporter: Yes, but this doesn't effect the ordinary man in the street, Your Grace.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Reporter: This doesn't effect the masses.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The mass of people, he says it doesn't effect them.

Prabhupāda: Mass of people will follow. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha (BG 3.21). Just like everywhere, in politics there is in one leader and people follow him, so we want first-class leader. Then mass will follow. If the leaders are rascals and fools, then what will be result? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If the leader is blind, how he can help other blind men? He must be open eyes. Then he can lead thousands of blind men—"Come here." And if he is himself blind, then how he can help? That is wanted. One blind man... One open-eyes man is sufficient to lead many thousands of blind men. But if the leaders are also blind, then it is useless. He must be in perfect knowledge. That is wanted. We do not expect that mass of people will understand this philosophy. It is not possible. But at least the leaders, they must know how to lead people—the father, the teachers, the government, like that. Then people will follow.

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not simply by rubber stamp.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. He must agree, "Yes." Therefore guru is required. Guru means, accept guru means, "Whatever you say, I will accept." That is guru. Otherwise friendly talk. Friendly talk will not do. To accept guru means "Now I accept you, guru, my instructor, without any argument," and that is acceptance. "Whatever you say, I shall do." That is agreement. Then he can be reformed. Śiṣyas te 'ha śādhi mā prapannam: "I surrender unto you. I become your disciple. Now you train me." Then he can be reformed. Otherwise not possible. (break)

Devotee: When we were at school we accept a teacher and he teaches us mathematics or something like this, but when it comes to spiritual life and we accept a guru, people criticize by saying, "Oh, you're not thinking for yourself anymore."

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have surrendered. You say, "Yes, we have surrendered. That is the way." Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). The first term is "surrender," praṇipāta. Otherwise it is not possible. If one does not surrender, there is no question of reformation. He must voluntarily surrender: "Yes. Whatever you say, I shall do." Then things can be advanced. Otherwise not possible. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the jñānīs are very rare though, aren't they?

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, bhaktas are rare. (break) ...churches here?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is a school, convent school. There is one church here, another church across the street, a third over there and a fourth down the street from where we live. This church has a big food program, but they sell it. They don't distribute freely. They have about twelve vans. Congregational food... All these garages. They have vans, a big truck.

Prabhupāda: But they eat meat.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, they distribute meat too.

Prabhupāda: Their program is for the poor? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Generally. I think it's mostly money-making. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yet all the universities, schools throughout the world, they're simply following this experimental knowledge of the scientists. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...machine is recording, but as soon as electricity stops—the machine is there—it will not record. You cannot say the machine is the ultimate. Machine is there; it will not record as soon as the electricity is missing. So that electricity, either you say soul or something else, you replace it. Just like electricity means the battery you charge, it will work, again record. Similarly, if you say "That is not soul, something missing," so you can replace it. What is that something? That something also you do not know. Then how can you refute my argument, soul? You do not know anything. I at least know something on the basis of śāstra. But you have neither śāstra nor experiment, nothing else. So who is strong? I am strong or you are strong?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Our position is very weak against these arguments.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have got some evidences—Kṛṣṇa is speaking, the Vedic śāstra... And what you have got? Simply your speaking? What you are, nonsense? Your speaking should be accepted? And Kṛṣṇa's speaking will be rejected? I have got some support, but what support you have got except your statement? Then everyone can give a statement and he becomes an authority.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: You do not know; therefore you have to learn. If you want to remain rascal, fool, and still you want to know, that is not possible. You have to know from the real source. Then you'll know. But if you keep yourself in the rascal platform, then how you will know? Just like you have to go to a school to learn things. So how you can learn at home? Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You have to go in order to understand that science. So how do you argue, keeping yourself in darkness? In darkness you cannot see anything. "Oh, I do not see anything; therefore there is nothing." Is that very good reason? You are blind, you cannot see the darkness. That is another thing. But things are there. You make your eyes operated and manifest your vision. Then you'll see. Therefore, ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā cakṣur-unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ. Everyone is blind, in darkness. He cannot see anything. So one who opens the eyes, jñānāñjana-śalākayā, by the torch of knowledge, he is guru. This is description of guru. If you are blind and have a blind guru, that is no use. Guru means who is not blind. I may be blind. Then that will be effective. This is no reason, "I cannot see." What you are? You can see? You cannot see even the president, and you want to see God without being qualified? This is laymans', rascal's reason, "I cannot see. I do not see." What you are? What you can see? You do not first of all evaluate what is your position, and you want to see something. The formula is there. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). One who has developed love of God is always seeing God. So where is that qualification? You are not lover of God, you are lover of dog, so how you can see God? You can see dog. That's all. Go on seeing dog perpetually. And at the time of death see the dog and become a dog. That's all.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is also external. Real unity is on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) The Vedānta begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Just inquire about the soul." And where is that education? This human life, they are opening so many colleges, schools, institutions. Where is the instruction about the soul? So go-kharaḥ. (Hindi) In spite of so much improvement, they are behaving just like cats and dogs. In South Africa the Indians are given the far away from the city.

Dr. Patel: They have been very badly segregated. They can't have any business, I hear.

Prabhupāda: They are put into difficulty.

Dr. Patel: They are following Hitler's method of superiority of... They don't understand that Indians are as superior as they are, rather more, ethically.

Prabhupāda: Everyone thinks that he is superior than everyone.

Dr. Patel: No, no. The Aryan race is...

Prabhupāda: That is the disease, material disease. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has... Tṛṇād api sunīcena: "You just become..." (end)

Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...explained in Bhagavad-gītā. Unfortunately the rascals will not take it. That is the difficulty.

Dr. Patel: In my time, when, your time, I mean our time, in the school there was a compulsion of learning the Mahābhārata and Rāmāyaṇa. Now these modern principals,(?) they don't know anything about it. Absolutely there is no knowledge. My daughter said, "What is Rāmāyaṇa?" I had to look at a English edition of Rāmāyaṇa and give her Mahābhārata. That is what they are teaching now in the schools. So this race is going bankrupt. What about knowing about Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata? They don't know simple Mahābhārata.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...city one house with twenty rooms on the riverside.

Dr. Patel: I was told that Lasteri's house, you know, sir, Charpak Lasteri.(?)

Prabhupāda: What do you think will be the price?

Dr. Patel: I don't know about price, sir. But their prices are as high as in Bombay. Whose is this house? Who is the owner? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...jīvanti. The trees, they live many, many hundreds of thousands of years more than men.

Indian man (1): Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: Central Asia and inhabited in India. Then the Indian civilization sprang. Everybody thinks that India was not originally inhabited. It was all inhabited by the Dravidians, and then the Dravidians were pushed into the South and then Aryans dominated them. Whatever they learn in the schools. And because they have this theory, therefore they have to date all the śāstras, after, either after Christ or just a few centuries before Christ. (break) ...bhārata, they say, it must have been a small family feud and some poet's imagination made it a big war.

Prabhupāda: "May be. May not be." (laughter) We say, "may not be."

Brahmānanda: They say the Mahābhārata was written 1400 B.C., and that date correlates with dates of the Egyptian and Greek Empire.

Prabhupāda: No, no, so many dates have been quoted there. Which is correct? That is our question. So many dates they have discussed. And which one is correct? Either everyone is correct or everyone is incorrect. This is the... There cannot be many dates; that is not possible. Date must be one. So which one is correct? Who will answer this?

Brahmānanda: Everyone has a different opinion.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) Copies. (break) They could not conclude when the battle of Kurukṣetra was fought.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are speculating, though. There is one school which says it wasn't fought in Kurukṣetra.

Prabhupāda: As soon as there will be one school and other school, that means all of them are rascals. Just like the sun rises from this side. There cannot be two schools. If somebody says, "No, no. Sun rises from this side," if that is school, he's a fool. Sun rises from the eastern side. That's all. That is knowledge. If somebody says, "No, sometimes in the western side, sometimes in the northern side," is that any value? So as soon as there will be many schools, that means the conclusion is not like that.

Yaśomatīnandana: Someone was telling me, and I was telling that if somebody is not following the particular characteristic of a saintly person mentioned in the śastra, they cannot be accepted as a sādhu. So he was trying to prove that some sādhus, so-called, who eat meat, and who are drinking, they were actually great paramahaṁsas. And then I... He said that because in the previous ages there is mention of... In the śāstras there is mention that there were many ṛṣis and munis who were eating meat.

Prabhupāda: He knows them. He is such a rascal that he knows only and nobody knows. That is the verdict of this Rāmakrishna Mission.

Morning Walk -- November 15, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That new Gurukula picture that they had sent you in Illinois near Chicago? They have taken that.

Brahmānanda: It's a military school.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: A military school.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Military school or military barracks?

Brahmānanda: No, a military school.

Prabhupāda: What is the price?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: 420,000...?

Brahmānanda: Four fifty.

Prabhupāda: So they have paid?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are going to pay 150,000 in January. It looks perfect for Gurukula.

Prabhupāda: How far? It is in Chicago?

Brahmānanda: It's about, I think, an hour and a half from Chicago by car.

Prabhupāda: Oh. It is a village.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. Here are Americans. Is that the education? I don't think so.

Dr. Patel: No, postgraduate education is like that. Not undergraduate. The postgraduate boys are living in close contact with the professors for the research.

Brahmānanda: Only a few schools.

Dr. Patel: Ah, but there are. The research is...

Prabhupāda: No, the professor is also drunkard.

Dr. Patel: Then he may be a drunkard.

Brahmānanda: They drink together. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: That's right. That is right.

Prabhupāda: The professor goes to hell, and the student also goes. (laughter)

Indian man (3): This is their close association.

Dr. Patel: That is the way they...

Prabhupāda: So you know that story, that one man was drinking, so his friend told him, "You are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my mother drinks." "Oh, she will also go." "My father drinks." "Oh, he will also go." "My brother drinks." "Oh, he will also go." "Then where is hell?" (laughter) "Father, mother, brother, myself, if we live together, then where is hell?" Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In the examination hall the police is there, and if the guard detects, "Oh, you are taking notes from books," then he will be killed. So many teachers have been killed.

Indian man (3): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Police, under police they are. I saw in Delhi. One school I went, and the police is there, examination room, but all thieves, rascals. And they are sitting in examination for passing, all rascals.

Dr. Patel: The modern education has become a farce in that dress.

Prabhupāda: Farce, yes. No education. Amongst the Marwaris, the respectable gentlemen, they don't send. They keep private teachers, paṇḍitas, for learning Sanskrit, English. They know that our, "My boy hasn't got to earn money. He has to sit here. That's all. Why he should be spoiled?" They know very well, "We can purchase these technologists."

Indian man (3): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Everything farce. There is no education.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: In our time we had so much respect for our teachers and what love teachers had for us. One of my teachers in the school retired some time back and then... (break) They wanted to give him 65,000 rupees because he was a seventy-five years. And when we collected from the old students it came to more than six lakhs of rupees. That was the love of the old students for the teacher in those days. Now it is this.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...infection and disinfection also, but you don't take to disinfection. That is our... Here is disinfection, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Who is going to take it? They will prefer to be infected. (break) ...respectable person will send their children to gurukula. They don't want. I tried in the beginning. It was a failure. They don't want. Just like Prahlāda and Hiraṇyakaśipu. What is the trouble? The Prahlāda was devotee, and his father did not like him, that "Why you should be devotee? You become politician, diplomat." That is the difficulty, that nowadays everyone is Hiraṇyakaśipu, and he wants that his son should be diplomat, politician, black market and... What is the use of this Prahlāda? That is going on, especially in India. (break) Hiraṇyakaśipu, he'll never like to see his son Prahlāda. And our system is to make Prahlāda. So nobody will like it.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...Hiraṇyakaśipu education, then it is filled up immediately. And if you introduce Prahlāda education-vacant. (break) Hm? (laughs) (break) ...meet me at night, all you. (break) Who are living?

Girirāja: Our men? One room is for the school, and Yaśomat...

Indian man (4): School, gurukula school.

Girirāja: The children. Then Yaśomatīnandana's wife was staying there, and Bilvamaṅgala and his wife used to stay there.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Girirāja: One Bilvamaṅgala and his wife used to stay there. So they've left. And Nayanābhirāma and his wife used to stay there and they have left. So actually it could be emptied.

Prabhupāda: But I saw yesterday someone living there.

Girirāja: Well, Yaśomatīnandana's wife is gone.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yesterday.

Prabhupāda: No, there is some Indian woman.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You saw her yesterday?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Girirāja: I have spoken to many students coming out of the Indian schools, and they all say that "The universe was created by a chunk and it exploded," and they have no training that God is there behind everything that you see.

Dr. Patel: Everything is occuring by explosions. In our mind an explosion occurs, and we start believing in God. So that is not that, sir. I think they are misguided. How can anything happen without a supreme power?

Prabhupāda: If they are misguided, how they are scientists?

Dr. Patel: But we have all learned in the same schools of science, he, I and the rest, also scientists, here. We have learned the same way the science. But it all depends upon how he grasps it, how he thinks about it, how he understands it.

Prabhupāda: So that we can understand, that he is grasping like a fool. Therefore we call them "fools, rascals." There was a newspaper interview with a so-called scientist.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: How they are spoiling the career. Whole life is spoiled. They are being taught in this way. Andha yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is going on, schools, colleges: "Don't believe in God." That has become a fashion, advancement. Yes. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: But all are not like that.

Indian man (1): Not all, but some. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Not some, ninety percent.

Dr. Patel: Some of the fools like him may be thinking like that. I have been right from the... I was born in science and I never thought that there was no God.

Prabhupāda: No, no, you...

Dr. Patel: Do you call me an exception?

Prabhupāda: I know that. I know. I know you.

Indian man (1): (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: No, no, but I am one of the scientists. He is one of the scientists. He has put on these clothes and...

Prabhupāda: But you are supporting the rascal. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda? This boy wants to go in gurukula school.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Jayapataka: In your prayer we say, pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe. But now don't you think we could say "viśva"? (Prabhupāda chuckles) I think that there's no place... You've not only covered Western world but practically whole world.

Prabhupāda: I say that because my Guru Mahārāja appointed me for that purpose. (break)

Jayapataka: There was a group of reporters who went to see the district magistrate, and they were asking him, taking interview about so many different things. So finally they kept asking about ISKCON because of our Māyāpur center. So he said, "Well, I can't say anything about that. I can't say..." Finally one reporter asked another very direct question about their staying here, this, that. And he said, "I have order from Indira Gandhi that the officers, that maṭha gaṁrami na.(?) No one, officer, should worry about ISKCON. You just do your own thing. So I can say nothing about them. I have got no authority to say anything about them. We've got this order from Indira Gandhi." Then the reporter said, "Oh, we can print that?" He said, "Please don't print that. Otherwise I will lose my job." So when the local Congress people heard that, they were very happy, our friends. So I think your visit did a great benefit.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Now, sir, they say that in American universities also, many universities have started teaching Sanskrit.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In every school, every college, every university, there is Sanskrit. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break)

Dr. Patel: ...was the real man who, when he started studying Vedas, he realized that in Sanskrit language there is a huge literature of great importance. He spread the things in Germany. No, he was staying in England.

Prabhupāda: By international scholars' meeting these diacritic marks were discovered for studying Sanskrit. The diacritic marks which we use, that is international agreement of Sanskrit scholars.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Yes. Those marks. A, and a and u and ai and these dots. Yes, that is international. Nobody can claim. That is long back, sir. I think Max Muller's time.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: There were so many scholars, even in Paris, Germany, and Italy.

Prabhupāda: Professor Roe and Webb, they were professor in Presidency College when we were school children. They admitted Sanskrit is the mother of all languages.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Thank you. (break) ...if they know the chemicals, why they open deaf and dumb school? Let the chemical be injected and they will be cured from dumbness and deafness. And where is that chemical? Hm?

Harikeśa: I mean, after all, isn't it just a matter of time, because we've already invented new skin now.

Prabhupāda: Again rascaldom. Again rascaldom.

Harikeśa: Yes, but just think of what we've already done. We've made new skin.

Prabhupāda: What you have done? What you have done? A man... A man is...

Harikeśa: I tell you, we've made new skin. If somebody gets burned we can put new skin on.

Prabhupāda: A man, when he is blind, what you can do? You can simply make some experiment. Then you say, "We tried. We could not do it."

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Then why there are so many enemies? Why the Americans do not like them, Chinese do not like them?

Devotee (3): Now they write in the mod... I see in the modern textbook in the Delhi schools. They make counterproposal. They said, "Because the Indian philosophy is not so perfect, India has become economically backwards on account of following the..."

Prabhupāda: What economical backwards?

Devotee (3): They say India is very poor country.

Prabhupāda: No. Indians economical backwards because they have given up their own culture. When India was actually standing on the old culture, they were never defeated. Even the Mohammedans, they ruled over India for eight hundred years, but they could not defeat the Indian culture. But the British government are clever. They spoiled the Indian culture. Therefore they are poverty-stricken. Otherwise if India would have continued in his own culture... The Gandhi started the boycott movement. So Indian culture automatically boycotted anything foreign. We know in our childhood nothing foreign-made could be used in some ceremony. Even this cloth, it must be country-made, that, what is called?

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Indian?

Akṣayānanda: No, English.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's also one in Bombay. She used to be a public school teacher in England. After the school is open she can come over here. And there's one in Māyāpur, but she's teaching in Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, other girls, they can take up this.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...our guest. Because somebody is guest, paying guest, therefore we shall admit anyone in any kind of dress?

Akṣayānanda: No.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We don't admit people who look like hippies or something.

Akṣayānanda: That girl, I told her she had to wear a sari. And she did for some time, but then again she stopped.

Prabhupāda: That I am speaking, that sa yadi krīyate rāja.

Akṣayānanda: Due to habit.

Prabhupāda: Sakrn nasnuta pahanam (?) That is the difficulty. It will be very bad example. People will think... They already thinking that "These are all hippies." That will minimize the prestige of the temple. (break) Jaipuria House they do not allow any hippies. You know that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaipuria does not allow any foreigners at all. They don't allow any foreigners at all, even if somebody is decently dressed.

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Bhāgavata: (describing Māyāpur) All the devotees, some devotees, they live in the main building, and some devotees they work on the weaving, and some devotees work in agriculture, some devotees work in the gośālā. They make competition, that "Who will come to the maṅgala-ārati first, early." Now they are coming one hour before maṅgala-ārati. They're in a competition, and the ones who dance through the ārati, throught the entire ārati without stopping, the ones that come early, they get this stamp, Kṛṣṇa stamp. You get twenty stamps, you get one plate of mahā-prasādam. You get thirty stamps, forty stamps... You get one thousand stamps, you can go to Vṛndāvana for darśana. You get two thousand stamps you can go for opening ceremony in Bombay. Like this he is making program. Everyone is working very hard to come to the maṅgala-ārati first, to chant the..., and to dance. Everyone is working very hard. He has increased the enthusiasm.

Prabhupāda: These are all a school building? Hm? They're extended.

Tejas: Yes.

Devotee: It's a school.

Tejas: They have also opened a new school. Besides this they have opened another college.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Tejas: Some place in south Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (end)

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of vihāya? (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: We tolerate everything. (more Hindi) The whole civilization, the modern civilization, is wholly at fault. Unfortunate. And that is the schools we are sending our children to, and these are the public schools.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi about the Gurukula in Vṛndāvana)

Dr. Patel: They're getting (indistinct) of knowledge, after all they will (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: We are opening gurukula, but who will give? A gentleman will not give. Hare Kṛṣṇa! (man stops and Patel introduces him)

Dr. Patel: He's a great scholar and poet of Gujarati literature, and he comes from the same place where the... Bet, he's from Bet, Dvaraka-bet, where all those temples are.

Prabhupāda: He's a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Yes, he's a brāhmaṇa devotee of Kṛṣṇa. And a great teacher, he was at university, a professor of Gujarati literature and a great, well-renowned poet...

Prabhupāda: So you do not come to our temple?

Man: Don't believe what he says! (laughter) I am just a humble servant.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Gopī bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsanudāsa...

Dr. Patel: He only writes poems on God, Mr. Bethai. His name is Bethai, because he comes from the Bet.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. I don't say. This is the philosophy. Amānitvam adambhitvam. Where is that thing? That is taught from the brahmacārī. Brahmacārī, a small boy, he is taught that you become amānitvam adambhitvam, and he accepts it. Because he is small, the brahmacārī, he may becoming from a king's family, but if he's ordered, "My dear boy, take my shoes and brush it," he'll do it, because he's innocent boy. He learns. Therefore brahmacār gurukule vasan dānta. The mode of life should be trained from the brahmacārī.

Dr. Patel: This British public school, sir, they are doing that. The school of Harrow and the Eaton. The first-standard boys have to brush the shoes of the fifth-standard boys, and the fifth to the sixth, and the sixth to the seventh, and first to the second...

Prabhupāda: No, why not to the...

Dr. Patel: And the first boy, his shoes goes to the teacher.

Prabhupāda: Some idea...

Dr. Patel: That is great idea.

Prabhupāda: No. That is also imperfect. Anyway, it is something. Amānitvam adambhitvam: they from the very beginning of their life, they address other's wife as "mother," you see? Matrvat paridaresu. This is culture, to see every woman except his own wife as mother. Where is that culture?

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have learned from India. The American hippies, they have learned from these so-called rascals. Yes. Ginsberg, he introduced this. He came to India, went to Haridwar, he saw so many rascals, sādhus, smoking gañjā. He thought, "This is the way..."

Dr. Patel: Acchā. Celo.

Prabhupāda: No, (Hindi). Hm.

Dr. Patel: Same thing—our boys have started smoking LSD in the colleges here. Yes, yes. In Grand(?) Medical College boys have started smoking. They know very well that it is a bad thing, medical students. Never bother the arts and science schools. (Hindi) Because their ideal starts from American precedent. The last precedent (president?) was so idealistic, so... (laughing)

Girirāja: A few days back in the newspapers there was..., smoking causes damage to the brain...

Dr. Patel: It causes damage everywhere, because it damages your blood vessel which carries the vital fluid to all the organs. The blood vessels are spoiled and narrowed down so not sufficient amount of blood will get to your brain, to your heart, to your lungs, your everything practically. Follow? This is not one of (indistinct). They smoke this ganja, sir, because artificially they go into a sort of a trance. That is what the psychedelic drugs.

Prabhupāda: That man also says like that.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You can change it. That Necolla(?) has conquered you.

Dr. Patel: That's right. They did conquer us. These priests even are not tending even the system of education.

Śravaṇānanda: At the Ramakrishna Mission school in Madras near a football field, there is one slogan on the arch that says, "The playing of football will bring one closer to heaven than the study of the Gītā."

Prabhupāda: Just see. Has Neccolla(?) carved this?

Śravaṇānanda: He said, "Tear up all the big tulasīs..."

Dr. Patel: Is it a fact? We don't know.

Prabhupāda: It is a fact if he says.

Śravaṇānanda: Yes. It is written right there, it's written right there. They say the playing of football will bring one closer to heaven than the study of the Gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Vivekananda taught this.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: In my school, sir, where I was educated, in the entrance there is a statue of Sarasvatī, and nearby there is a photograph of Kṛṣṇa. I don't know how it came, that one.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Patel: All are not like that. In my school where I was educated, secondary school, in the entrance there was a statue of Sarasvatī, and near that was Kṛṣṇa's photo. (pause) (someone shouts Hare Kṛṣṇa)

Prabhupāda: In good health.

Dr. Patel: He always runs like this. All the time. He is so much frightened of his wife in the house that he cannot speak a word. Still he is in the house. That is why he makes good of the things when he comes out. (laughs) He behaves so naughtily like that. (Hindi with one man) Sir, shall we go this way, if you don't mind?

Prabhupāda: That Mr. Punja is staying? From Fiji? He has not come?

Devotee: Oh, no, he hasn't come back yet. He had two days' business, he said. He said he would come after that. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...doing there, these slums?

Dr. Patel: This was, they wanted to, er, have a officer of customs. The public, I mean, objected to, because they are imposing upon them, the way of the public walking. So they stopped it, but they are not taking away all these walls. Otherwise where the poor fellows will make the hutments?

Prabhupāda: That is what they are doing.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: So culture is the background for all these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Education is required to help culture. Not that you take degrees from the university and remain a dog. That is not education. Here is education, as Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says:

mātṛvat para-dāreṣu

para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat

ātmāvat sarva-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ

Here is a description of paṇḍita: first of all learn how to see other woman as your mother. There the culture begins. And they are, from the very beginning of the school college life, they are learning how to entice one girl. This is education.

Dr. Patel: They are following the so-called advanced countries.

Prabhupāda: Advanced means Freud's philosophy.

Page Title:	School (Conversations 1975)
Compiler:	Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:	14 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:	BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=138, Let=0
No. of Quotes:	138