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Sahajiya (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: ...all the educated men. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the, who is called, elite society appreciate, then ordinary people will also appreciate. Before my Guru Maharaja, I mean, Bhaktisiddhānta's..., Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Lord Caitanya's cult was considered by the higher class as it is the business of the low-class men. Even Vivekananda remarked that "It is the religion of sex," because they saw that the sahajiyās, they discussed this rāsa-līlā and have illicit connection with woman. So therefore they took it as the religion of sex. Vivekananda. But now...

Guest: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: These are the remark. And now we have to establish this, that this is the only way to reach God. You have to become scholar, philosopher, worker, practical behavior. And that is the fact. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66)? You have to prove it. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ: "Except surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, anything, that is simply cheating," cheating, kaitavaḥ. Cheating religion. This is challenged by God, "Cheating religion." We have to save people from the cheating type of religion, cheating type of religion, cheating type of dharma. It is so important movement. So this is very good thought of high-court judges.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So these people, the sahajiyās, they have become dogs and hogs. Now after this life, (indistinct). For their sinful activities they have become dogs and hogs. Now unconsciously as dogs and hogs they are taking advantage of the Vṛndāvana land. Now they... Now they will become pure devotees. Just like we see in the life of Bharata Mahārāja. So much austerity, and because a little attachment for the deer, the next life he was (indistinct). Yamala-arjuna, they became trees. But on account of staying in Vṛndāvana, next life (indistinct). So we should be intelligent. Why should we take another chance of becoming hogs and dogs? But that requires intelligence. Ultimately they will be delivered, but it will be delayed by becoming hogs and dogs once(?).

Gurudāsa: Acyutānanda Mahārāja said that he has heard that Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī has said that these turtles in Vṛndāvana were previously caste gosvāmīs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So...

Gurudāsa: It's a result of trying to cheat māyā then?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Gurudāsa: It's a result of trying to...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is... They are showing that "We are gosvāmī," but doing all nonsense. This is cheating. Like this man, he is thinking that "Somehow or other I will get his money through Dāmodara, and I shall drink and everything (indistinct)." It is not cheating? Gosvāmī means one who has full control over the senses. That is gosvāmī. But he is taking the title of gosvāmī but he has no control over his senses. That is cheating. So you cannot cheat that way, Kṛṣṇa or māyā. Whatever little success I have got, I have tried always not to cheat Kṛṣṇa or māyā. That's all.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Make show. So we should not increase the show very, very much. Show shortcut show. That's all. Real business is... Āula, bāula, kartābhajā, neḍā, daraveśa, sāṅi sahajiyā, sakhībhekī, smārta, jāta-gosāñi, they have been condemned by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, smārta and jāta-gosāñi. Smārta-paṇḍita, very serious about performing ceremonial rituals, they are called smārtas. This Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, also Vaiṣṇava-smṛti, that is also imitation of smārtaism. It is called smṛti. So at least in Europe and America, they will never be able to take all these things. The things should be made shortcut; at the same time, they should be successful. So that is chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, depending on... As soon as we have got some time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Either loudly or silent... As far as possible loudly; if not possible, silently. But the tongue must go, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. The tongue must work. And as far as possible, should be heard... That is... And officially, krkshaharama (Prabhupāda chants very fast with words running into each other indistinctly). Not like that (chants again like that) Not like that. That will not... Every word should be distinctly chanted and heard, not official. So stress on this point. As far as possible, people should be encouraged to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and try to bring the ecstasy and dance. Even there is no ecstasy, dance, it will bring ecstasy. Dancing is so nice. Chanting, dancing and take prasādam. Take rest. That's all. Not that you shall take rest like Kumbhakarṇa. (Prabhupāda laughs) Just to, I mean to say, answer the call of this deficient body, we have to take little rest. But as far as possible this should be conquered. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...could have written a lot of Vaiṣṇava songs, if he were a Vaiṣṇava.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But he borrowed the idea from Vaiṣṇava. His guru, not exactly guru... In his zamindari, Golpur, he was going to a Vaiṣṇava, Baul. But Baul is sahajiyā. So he got the idea of Vaiṣṇavism, but because he was not Vaiṣṇava, he presented his idea in a different way. That is his Gītāñjali. Gītāñjali is the depiction of the idea he got from that Baul.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: His songs are so popular in Bengal.

Prabhupāda: No, all over the world, more or less.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Even I sang some of his songs when I was in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: There is idea, some Vaiṣṇava idea.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: ...in what sense is the First Canto His lotus feet?

Prabhupāda: Lotus feet because we worship Kṛṣṇa by worshiping the lotus feet first. We offer flower to the lotus feet. So one must go from First Canto to Second Canto, Third Canto, gradually make progress, not all of a sudden want to see how Kṛṣṇa is smiling. You see? That you cannot understand. So the sahajiyās, they go, immediately jump to the Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā, without worshiping gradually. Therefore they misunderstand. (break) Just to understand Kṛṣṇa.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: Most of these devotees in Hyderabad, they are chanting twenty-five rounds a day or more.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. If you can chant more, that is good. (break)

Pañcadraviḍa: ...must associate with them, that is difficult.

Prabhupāda: But you do your business. You don't follow them. That's all. You remain perfect. There are many imperfects, admitting, but you try to remain perfect so that they may see you, your behavior, and they may follow you. If everyone is sincere in his activity, then where is the question? The society means if I am defective, I am seeing that you are doing nicely, so I will be ashamed. That is also teaching. Actually that should be the practice. If I cannot finish my sixteen rounds due to some business, then next day I must finish it. If you say that "Next day also, I am busy," then you should forego your eating and sleeping and finish it. That is the way. You are so busy, but you do not forget your eating and sleeping. That is cheating. If you are so busy that you forget your eating and sleeping, then I can consider that you are very busy. But you do not forget this portion. "Whenever there is opportunity, I sleep and eat. And I have no time for chanting"—this is cheating. How long you can go on by cheating? You must finish it. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Somebody, after initiation he promises, "Yes, I shall follow these rules and regulations. I shall chant sixteen rounds," before the fire, before the Deity, before the guru, and if he does not follow, then he is a cheater. What to speak of his becoming a Vaiṣṇava, he is a cheater. He breaks all his promises. Therefore after seeing, observing a person is doing everything, then say second initiation, or then he should not be recommended for second initiation unless the president and the other authorities see that he is doing nicely, he is following. Otherwise he should not be recommended. If he is recommended, that is also another cheating. If you know that this person is not following the rules and regulation, then why should you recommend him? Then it is another cheating. Viddhi-bhakti must be followed; otherwise it becomes sahajiyā.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Or to kill the demon, that is His mercy. Both of them. It is not that materially, as we think, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is taking side of this man and killing this man." No. Still, He is neutral, absolute.

Brahmānanda: The sahajiyās, they don't know that.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Brahmānanda: Sahajiyās, they just go towards like the rasa-līlā, and they avoid the demon killing.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Brahmānanda: The sahajiyās.

Prabhupāda: Oh, they are rascals. Kick them out. They think everything is easy.

Dr. Patel: What is sahajiyā?

Prabhupāda: Sahajiyā... Sahaj means easy. Easy-going. They will smoke cigarette at the same time they will play rasa-līlā. This is sahajiyā. This is sahajiyā. They will do all nonsense; still, they will become God, imitation of God.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: Well, they say "You are distributing food, and we are also distributing food. You are opening schools, and we are also opening schools."

Prabhupāda: Yes. But we are opening school for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore the rascals, they cannot understand what is bhakti and what is karma. Bhakti looks like karma, but it's not karma. It is bhakti. They cannot understand what is bhakti. Bhakti means the same karma, but for Kṛṣṇa's sake. That is bhakti. Just like the same fight, battlefield, but because it was done for Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna is accepted, bhakto 'si priyo 'si me: (BG 4.3) "You are My devotee. You are My very dear." But what did he do? His business was to fight. He fought, that's all. But fought for Kṛṣṇa. That is the secret. He did not change his fighting capacity as a warrior. But he changed his mentality. His mentality was that "Why shall I kill my kinsmen?" But Kṛṣṇa wanted, "Oh, that's all right." So therefore service is for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Not for his sense gratification. Karmī means sense gratification, and bhakta means Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification. That is the difference. Sense gratification is there. When you do it for your personal sense grati..., it is karma. And you do it for Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification, it is bhakti. So therefore they look similar, but the quality is different. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Dhare prema nāma. The gopīs, they acted like prostitutes, but the center was Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends, ramyā kacid upāsanā vrajavadhu-vargena ya kalpita (?): "Oh there is no more better mode of worship than it was conceived by the gopīs." What is their conception? Prostitution, that's all. Simple prostitute. Kṛṣṇa was a beautiful boy and they were attracted by the beauty of Kṛṣṇa. They wanted Him as their husband, lover, to dance with them. That is the gopīs. And these rascals are taking that "This is very good. Kṛṣṇa also did like this. So let us do; gather some girls and dance, and we become Kṛṣṇa." This is Māyāvāda, Therefore Vyāsadeva has devoted nine cantos just to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then try to understand what is the gopīs' behavior with Kṛṣṇa. But these rascals jump over it. Sahajiyās. Jump over Kṛṣṇa's dealing with the gopīs. And that is Bhāgavata. Because rascals, they shall remain rascal.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Unless one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Then you can get rid of māyā's tricks. Otherwise, you may dress yourself like anything, but you are simply māyā's servant. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung one... Ei ota kalir chelā: "Here is another disciple of Kali." Nake tilaka galai mālā. "He has got tilaka on the nose and mālā, kaṇṭhi, also." Sahaja bhajana kache mamu saṅge lana pare bhalo: "And he's, he has become a Vaiṣṇava by illicit sex." This is stated by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. "Here is a Kali's chelā. He has dressed like a Vaiṣṇava, but he is doing his bhajan with illicit sex." Sahaje bhajana kache mamu saṅge lana pare bhalo. You know? There is a class of sahajiyās?

Bali Mardana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vaiṣṇavas. Just like, dress like Rūpa Gosvāmī, loincloth, and, but three dozen women behind him.

Bali Mardana: Yes, gopīs.

Prabhupāda: So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura: "Here is a disciple of Kali. He has tilaka and he has kunti and he's doing this nonsense." Eita kalir chela.

Room Conversation -- August 5, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). Unless you find something better than the sex life, you cannot be dhīra. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Madana-Mohana. Madana means Cupid. Cupid is enchanting everyone. Everyone is enchanted by Cupid. Madana-dahan(?). And Kṛṣṇa is Madana-Mohana, He enchants Cupid. And Rādhārāṇī is Madana-mohana-mohinī, (S)he enchants Kṛṣṇa. Madana-Mohana-mohinī.

Brahmānanda: One is Madan-madan?

Prabhupāda: One is Madana, and Kṛṣṇa enchants Madana. Kṛṣṇa is so beautiful that Madana becomes enchanted by Kṛṣṇa. And Rādhārāṇī is so beautiful that Kṛṣṇa becomes enchanted. That is spiritual sex. That is not ordinary. Therefore the attraction of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa is not ordinary thing. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir, this is the spiritual energy, display of spiritual energy. But the sahajiyās, they take as material attractions. As we are attracted, men and women, similarly, they take the Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa attraction...

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, eiṭa eka kalira chelā, nāke tilaka, galaya mālā:(?) "Here is another follower of Kali. He has got tilaka and mālā." Sahaja bhajana kacen māmu, saṅga laiyā pārera wala (?): "He is worshiping, bhajana, taking another's wife." Sahaja bhajana kacen māmu, saṅga laiyā pārera wala, ei ṭa eka kalira chelā: "Here is a servant of Kali. Simply he has changed his dress with tilaka and mālā." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says. If you take tilaka and mālā and do all nonsense things, then you are not a devotee. You are Kali-chelā. To become a devotee is not so easy thing.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Devotee means perfect.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Certainly. Devotee means sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He is above these material laws. That is devotee. Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. He is in the Brahman stage. That is devotee. If you take.... That means sahajiyā. "Because I have got a tilaka and mālā, I have become devotee." This kind of cheating will not do.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And in this modern age, this cheating is very prominent...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Modern or old, anyone who is a conditioned soul, he has got cheating propensity, four defects. One of them is the cheating propensity.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1976, Melbourne:

Devotee (1): We are in the neophyte stage, and we're often falling down.

Prabhupāda: You don't imitate. You follow the rules and regulations. Don't try artificially to be anxious. When you are purified, then you'll get that anxiety, not artificially. Then you are sahajiyā.

Devotee (1): I don't mean to hanker for the anxiety, but to...

Prabhupāda: No, anxiety, that is.... That will come, the perfectional stage. Don't try to be perfect artificially. Perfect stage, we have to follow strictly the regulative principle, the injunction of the spiritual master, śāstra. Then you come to that stage. Don't artificially imitate.

Devotee (1): What if one keeps falling down from following the regulative principles?

Prabhupāda: He's falling down? If he's falling down from regulative principles, that means he's falling down to the material world. Falling down means falling down.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, well it's a bunch of notes they mail out on a regular basis. It's really poisonous. Pradyumna has been investigating. He got a bunch of their notes photocopied. The one thing I've noticed about the people that are involved with this, two features I particularly have noticed. One of them is that they don't go out on saṅkīrtana. Everyone I've seen...

Prabhupāda: Then everything will be finished. Preaching will be finished. In this sahajiyā party, then preaching will be finished. Siddha-praṇālī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does that mean, Śrīla Prabhupāda, siddha-praṇālī?

Prabhupāda: Siddha-praṇālī is nonsense. They have manufactured a siddha-praṇālī.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You are rascal, how you can desire? You have no qualification, you desire to high-court judge. What is this nonsense?

Rāmeśvara: But then they have an answer.

Prabhupāda: What is that answer?

Rāmeśvara: That "Let me just try it anyway, to keep my mind thinking..."

Prabhupāda: How you can try it? First of all, be qualified, a big lawyer. Then you become high-court judge. Where is that qualification? You are after illicit sex and biḍi and you want to be associated with the gopīs.

Rāmeśvara: They say that "In ISKCON, we do not..."

Prabhupāda: Let them say all nonsense. They are disqualified. Sahajiyā bābājīs, that's all.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then let them.... Unless they follow the regulative principles, there is no place for that in the temple. Let them go out.

Rāmeśvara: They are following.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is their fault. They want to utilize the love affairs of Kṛṣṇa and gopīs for their debauchery. That is a support for their debauchery. That is sahajiyā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the meaning of sahajiyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that's on their minds.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're frustrated.

Prabhupāda: We are restricting, "No illicit sex." They will put that "Here is illicit sex between the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa."

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What they will think of at the death, why you are conjecturing now? Their habits are rascal, they're making pregnant, illicit sex, what they will think? Anyway, if we give indulgence to these people, then this preaching work will be hampered.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we're not going to do that.

Prabhupāda: Or they should be separated. Otherwise, it will be bad example, and all restrictions will be broken.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they don't change their mentality, then they should live separately, do their own society.

Prabhupāda: And they'll do that. (japa) That sahajiyā tendency is very easy to take up.

Hari-śauri: It seems like it's an inherent thing in...

Prabhupāda: Thinking of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā, that is in liberated stage, not in the conditioned stage.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Everything is there, but there is no necessity. (pause) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...to the USA, many sahajiyās, they requested me, "Sir, why you are going? You are in Vṛndāvana. Continue your bhajana. What is the use of preaching?"

Rāmeśvara: What is the use of preaching?

Prabhupāda: Preaching. They advised me like that.

Rāmeśvara: They don't believe in Lord Caitanya, these sahajiyās in Vṛndāvana?

Prabhupāda: Mostly. They have no knowledge. Material. Prākṛta-sahajiyā. Their real name is prākṛta. Their thoughts are on this material platform. Just as they are preferring this conjugal love because here the sex is prominent. They are thinking that is the highest stage. What is the lowest stage here, they're taking that as the highest stage. In the.... Of course, in the spiritual world there is such thing, but as Kṛṣṇa has many other līlās, why they are not attracted to other līlās?

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: They don't want to be limited. They think that Kṛṣṇa is the kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So why...

Prabhupāda: That is good. That is always true, but Kṛṣṇa says,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
(BG 7.3)

How you have understood Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, "Out of many millions of people, one becomes siddha, and out of many millions of siddhas, hardly one can understand Me." So how you have understood Kṛṣṇa so easily, within two years? What you have understood Kṛṣṇa, that is materially understood. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. That is prākṛta-sahajiyā. "Oh, we have understood. Kṛṣṇa was a playboy, dancing with His girls. Bas, we have understood. Now we shall..."

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: "If I follow the regulative principles and go on hearing about rāsa-līlā, then I'll be purified."

Prabhupāda: You say that. In the śāstra does not say. Śāstra says that after you have studied all the nine cantos of Bhāgavatam, then enter into the tenth. Sahajiyā means they take very easily. "I am.... Everything is all right. Now I am perfect." That is sahajiyā. Kṛṣṇa says, "To understand Me, it will take millions of years." And they understand Kṛṣṇa immediately. That is their.... That is called prākṛta-sahajiyā.

Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa's incarnation is to attract the living entities to Kṛṣṇa. So let me read about rāsa-līlā, because I'm feeling some attraction.

Prabhupāda: Then why not Kurukṣetra-līlā? What...? Kurukṣetra-līlā... Kṛṣṇa's līlā is the same, absolute. You are attracted to rāsa-līlā means you have got sex desire. That's all.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes Prabhupāda would tell him he was a smārta.

Rāmeśvara: He's always carrying an armful of books.

Prabhupāda: Smārta is also counted amongst the sahajiyās.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was really.... That's another problem, Prabhupāda. All of these boys that take part in this Sanskrit-Bengali translation department, they all become like this, because they read these other books. As soon as they learn Bengali and Sanskrit, they start reading so many books.

Prabhupāda: Āula bāula, kartābhajā, neḍā, daraveśa, sāṅi sahajiyā, sakhībhekī, smārta, jāta-gosāñi. They are all counted in one group.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the marriage ceremonies that they have, they make vow before God that "Until death do us part, we will not separate," but so many divorces are there.

Prabhupāda: That is suffering.

Rāmeśvara: If a man can have an affair with many different women, he's considered fortunate. It is his success.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's on the front page of all the magazines.

Hari-śauri: "Bachelor daddy."

Prabhupāda: Therefore they want to become gopīs. That is the tendency, sahajiyā.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Like transcendental hippie-life.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No responsibility.

Prabhupāda: Other relationship of Kṛṣṇa rejected, take, jump over the gopīs' relationship. This is the meaning. (break) ...this line? Is it not? So as many lines, that means so many years.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Then how he has become a doctor in Vaiṣṇava philosophy?

Devotee: He's a sick doctor.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That would mean that the dog is a great lover.

Prabhupāda: No, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is explanation, what is the difference between lust and love.

Satsvarūpa: I told him if you observe the devotees, you'll see they have very affectionate loving dealings with one another, but it's not based on the flesh. We don't have to...

Prabhupāda: That is lust. Sahajiyā. Lust is going on as love. (break) ...reviewed Dr. Judah's book?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Basically, he said it was a good book and that our movement is an important movement. But he made that one objection.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: First of all, anartha-nivṛtti. You are accustomed to so many bad habits. First of all try to rectify it, then talk of svarūpa. Where is your svarūpa? Simply wasting time. A man is diseased, he's thinking, "When I shall be cured I shall eat, go to this hotel, I shall eat like this." First of all cure, then talk of eating this and that. Svarūpa, when you are cured, that is svarūpa. So long you are not cured, what is the use of talking svarūpa? First business is cure yourself. Anartha-nivṛtti, that is anartha-nivṛtti. Then svarūpa will come. That is the bābājīs. In Vṛndāvana, you have seen? Siddha-praṇālī.

Pradyumna: Ah, siddha-praṇālī, siddha-deha?

Prabhupāda: They are smoking and having illicit sex with one dozen women-svarūpa. Rascal. This is called sahajiyā, a rascal. Condemned. Where is your svarūpa? Don't talk unnecessarily. First of all come to svarūpa, then talk of svarūpa.

Devotee: So our motivation should be to get free from birth, disease, old age and death.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's word are not different. If you find it different, then you have no eyes to see. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. When I quote Kṛṣṇa's word, that means Kṛṣṇa.

Vipina: But everyone sees it as different.

Prabhupāda: Because he is a rascal. He has to become a sane man, then he will see. It requires tapasya. It is not so easy. That is called sahajiyā. Why you want such exalted things so easily? Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's words, they are the same. Vāco vācaḥ.(?) The same thing. Why you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? If Kṛṣṇa's name and Kṛṣṇa is not the same, then what is the use of wasting time? Hm? What is that? Abhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś?

Prabhupāda: Ah,

nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś
caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ
pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto
'bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ
(CC Madhya 17.133)

This is the realization of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, when you understand that nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaḥ, this name, Kṛṣṇa, is Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of chanting. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ. Full representation or full Kṛṣṇa. Pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto 'bhinnatvāt, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's anything. Just like we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. If you think this is a statue of Kṛṣṇa, it is different from Kṛṣṇa, then you are not worshiping properly. He is Kṛṣṇa. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-mati, these are instructions. So anyway, we may be in the imperfect stage of devotional service, but if you follow the instruction, then gradually you come to the perfectional stage. There is no hopelessness. Continue. It is not that immediately one becomes perfect. But if you continue with the process, then you'll become perfect.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: Yes, you are right, but you do not understand where that lust is coming from. That lust is perverted from Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Obstinate. It is perverted reflection of love. Actually, it is... They say it is love. The sahajiyās in Vṛndāvana, they have got connection with woman. If you criticize them, say "Why you are connected with illicit sex?" "What is the wrong there? It is love." They say it is love.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: What is their definition of love?

Prabhupāda: Rascals, they are all... These sahajiyās, you'll find most of them illiterate. Not a single of them is even literate, they are so low class. Most of them they come to Vṛndāvana... Why Vṛndāvana? There are many other places. Their aim is woman and money. Just like these swamis and yogis, they come.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To the West.

Prabhupāda: Simply the ultimate goal is women and money. You may become whatever you may become. You become a yogi, you become a bābājī, you become a swami, but the ultimate goal is a woman and money. That's all. I'm feeling nice here. There is open air and grass.

Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Vairāgya is there.

Dr. Patel: Sir, shall I say, vairāgyaṁ jñeyam akati kṛṣṇa avasyati.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). This is vairāgya. So unless he has attained this stage, virakti, then where is bhakti? Bhakti is so powerful that it brings automatically vairāgya. But if there is no vairāgya, where is bhakti? Understand it now? Yes. It does not depend that you have to practice vairāgya separately. But if you are actually bhakta, then vairāgya is there. If there is no vairāgya, there is no bhakti. It is sahajiyā-bhāva.

Guest: In other words, vairāgya is a by-product of bhakti.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated,

kecit kevalayā bhaktyā
vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ
aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena
nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ
(SB 6.1.15)

Vairāgya is to be practiced, but bhakti is so strong, kecit kevalayā bhaktyā, simply by bhakti, vāsudeva-parāyaṇa. Vairāgya immediately comes. Aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. If actually one is pure bhakta, then everything material finished. That is real bhakta. Now I have got some bhakti and some material desire also. That is not bhakti. That is markaṭa-vairāgya. That does not mean that I shall stop bhakti. No, you take bhakti to the principle, to the regulative principle, then automatically vairāgya will come. The vairāgya is not coming, that means you have not been a pure bhakta. That is adulteration. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). That is bhakti. And because there is not anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167), it is adulterated.

Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: Even the liberated soul, nitya-siddha.

Prabhupāda: Liberated soul never says that "I am liberated." As soon as he says "liberated," he's a rascal. A liberated soul will never say that "I am liberated." That is liberated. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is God—guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsan (CC Adi 7.71). "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a fool number one, and he has chastised Me." He's God. This is the example. If one remains always a servant ever-lastingly of guru, then he is liberated. And as soon as he thinks that he is liberated, he's a rascal. That is the teaching of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Guru more mūrkha dekhi'. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is mūrkha? Why He's posing Himself that mūrkha? "I am fool number one." That means that is liberation. You must be ready always to be chastised by guru. Then he's liberated. And as soon as he thinks that "I am beyond this chastisement, I am liberated," he's a rascal. Why Caitanya Mahāprabhu says guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsan? This is sahajiyā-vāda. He is thinking, "Oh I have become liberated. I don't require any direction of my guru. I'm liberated." Then he's rascal. Why this Gauḍīya Maṭha failed? Because they tried to become more than guru. He, before passing away, he gave all direction and never said that "This man should be the next ācārya." But these people, just after his passing away they began to fight, who shall be ācārya. That is the failure. They never thought, "Why Guru Mahārāja gave us instruction so many things, why he did not say that this man should be ācārya?" They wanted to create artificially somebody ācārya and everything failed. They did not consider even with common sense that if Guru Mahārāja wanted to appoint somebody as ācārya, why did he not say? He said so many things, and this point he missed? The real point? And they insist upon it. They declared some unfit person to become ācārya. Then another man came, then another, ācārya, another ācārya. So better remain a foolish person perpetually to be directed by Guru Mahārāja. That is perfection. And as soon as he learns the Guru Mahārāja is dead, "Now I am so advanced that I can kill my guru and I become guru." Then he's finished.

Room Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is forceful change. That is the advantage of Vṛndāvana bhajana.

Harikeśa: That is very good. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: But not that willfully do something wrong. There is punishment. If one unconsciously, without any knowledge, does something wrong, that is excused. But they do willfully. They know it is wrong, still they do it. That is punished. Knowingly. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally said, asat eka strī-saṅgī. Those who are habituated to illicit sex are punishable. Asat. It is very, very bad. And still if somebody does like that, he is punished. This is going on. "All right." Here illicit sex... The bābājīs, I heard, they say, "What is the wrong there? It is love." They say like that. They take it as love. "Gopī's love," they say. "Gopī's used to do that, used to have illicit mixing, intermingling with Kṛṣṇa. What is wrong?" They'll say. They get support from Kṛṣṇa līlā. Such rogues they are. Sahajiyās. There are many so-called gentlemen, they write books on Kṛṣṇa līlā, paint picture." This is very nice. Kṛṣṇa is advocating illicit intermingling." They take it as support of their sinful activities. I have seen personally. Anyone who is a woman-hunter, he's being addressed by his friend, "Oh, you are like Kṛṣṇa." They take Kṛṣṇa as a man. How they will take instruction of Kṛṣṇa? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. We are teaching people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to become servant of Kṛṣṇa, and the so-called gentlemen, enlightened gentlemen, take Kṛṣṇa as a debauch. Black debauch. (break) ...Vaiṣṇava religion is sex. (break) There are aborigines in India. Santal, (?) they are called santal. Black men, live in the forest like the African aborigines. So I asked him that "You, jungle, do you meet the tigers?" "Oh, yes, yes. Why not?" "So how do you save yourself?" So he had a small axe in his hand. So he showed me that "So long I have got this axe, even the tiger will not dare to attack me." (Bengali or Hindi) After all, tiger is afraid of the axe. They are afraid of even stick. That immediately they understand, "He's superior." Actually man is superior with some weapon. I have got personal experience. He said, "He's a big tiger. But we treat them like dogs." One axe. They keep always. Just like we keep a stick, they keep one axe.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: "This statement of Parīkṣit Mahārāja's was very much appreciated by Śukadeva Gosvāmī. The answer anticipates the abominable activities of the Māyāvādī impersonalists, who place themselves in the position of Kṛṣṇa and enjoy the company of young girls and women. The basic Vedic injunctions never allow a person to enjoy sex with any woman except one's own wife. Kṛṣṇa's appreciation of the gopīs appeared to be distinctly in violation of these rules. Mahārāja Parīkṣit understood the total situation from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, yet to further clear the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs in the rasa dance, he expressed his surprise. This is very important in order to check the unrestricted association with women by the prākṛta-sahajiyā. In his statement, Mahārāja Parīkṣit has used several important..."

Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana this prākṛta-sahajiyā, they are making bhajana that a man, he thinks that "I am Kṛṣṇa"; another woman...

Guest (2): That is Rādhā.

Prabhupāda: "Rādhā." This rascaldom is going on.

Guest (1): Others are gopīs. It was also in Orissa also previously.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Not... You are going to produce some film. Begin from the first chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Why you jump over the Tenth Canto? That is kept very confidential. Unless one understands... By understanding nine cantos of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he has no entrance. Just like you cannot enter into the law college unless you are graduate. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī has arranged in such a way that one should understand what is Kṛṣṇa by reading these nine cantos. Then he can enter into the Kṛṣṇa's līlā and Kṛṣṇa's birth. What is the purpose? He could have given Kṛṣṇa... Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is for Kṛṣṇa. So we have named this, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-katha. So first Kṛṣṇa-katha is: Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. Present Bhagavad-gītā. Then one accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality... Sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). When he comes to that stage, then Bhāgavata begins. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). Paramo nirmatsarāṇām. Unless one is matsara... "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is doing that? Why I cannot do it?" The sahajiyā bābājīs, they do that. That is matsarata, that "Kṛṣṇa can do? I can also do." So he simply imitates Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā. And Kṛṣṇa can raise the Govardhana Hill—that is not possible. That is... What is called? Mythology. What he cannot do, he takes as mythology. And what he can easily imitate and go to hell, that is very good.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: There was another letter that Yogānanda, an accomplice of his, wrote to another person in California saying that he should also come to Vṛndāvana. Nitai had found all this new secrets.

Prabhupāda: That will happen. Sahajiyā.

Hari-śauri: Posing himself as a big, learned man.

Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "When our men will be sahajiyā, he will be more dangerous."

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, he said that "When our men will be sahajiyā, oh, they'll be more dangerous." So our men are becoming, some of them, sahajiyās. This very word he said, that "When our men will be sahajiyās he'll be more dangerous."

Hari-śauri: Without any proper realization, on the basis of being able to read Sanskrit, they delve into all kinds of books, and then they pick fault—"Oh, this rule is not being followed. This is wrong. This is wrong."

Satsvarūpa: "We don't chant sixty-four rounds, so that is very bad. We'll never make any progress."

Prabhupāda: Sahajiyā.

Hari-śauri: No faith in the spiritual master.

Satsvarūpa: So far, though, we have not learned a way to sell standing orders to the common man.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Hā hanta hā hanta viṣa-bhakṣana... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said this sex is the more dangerous than drinking poison for person who are going to advance in spiritual understanding. And they are talking—"Sex is the way of perfection." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, hā hanta hā hanta viṣa-bhakṣana apy asādhu. If one takes poison, that is criminal. So this sex indulgence in devotional life is more dangerous than poison-taking, criminality. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... But the sahajiyās, they are taking that through sex their life... What Gosvāmī? Jayadeva Gosvāmī, Candidāsa. Jayadeva Gosvāmī, Candidāsa, they read, and they say, "Oh, through sex one can achieve the highest." They publicly say in Vṛndāvana. "I am Kṛṣṇa, and parakīya rasa. You have to select one woman who is not your wife, kept wife, parakīya."

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Sakhībekhī. There are so many apasampradāyas, thirteen at least in the counting by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura: āula, bāula kartābhajā, neḍā, daraveśa, sāṅi sahajiyā, sakhībekhī. This sakhībekhī. Smārta, jāta-gosāñi, ativāḍī, cūḍādhārī, gaurāṅga-nāgarī. These thirteen, fourteen apasampradāyas. They are passing as Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya. But they're the worst, rejected. The sakhībekhī, dressing like.... To cheat Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is after the gopīs, so they have dressed like gopī, and Kṛṣṇa does not know that he's a rascal man. (laughter) Just see. This is their intelligence, to.... "I have become a sakhī. Kṛṣṇa will embrace me and kiss me." So Kṛṣṇa is so fool. (laughs) These rascals are doing that. Sakhībhekhī. There was a Lalitā-sakhi in Navadvīpa. All women surrounding him. Somebody is dressing him with red, what is called?

Satsvarūpa: Kumkum?

Prabhupāda: No. Alta it is called. And gumta (?). Somebody is giving massage. Lalitā Didi. Rayarāma dāsa's guru-bhai. This Rāma dāsa's, I have... "Nitāi gaura rādhe śyāma." This Rāma dāsa and that Lalitā, they're Godbrothers. So many... And amongst them there was fight—"You said that you have done this wrong," "You said you have done this wrong." But both of them are dead and gone. There are so many that, Sakhībhekhī. All women. Sometimes he—I have heard all this—he will observe the menstrual period. (laughter) To laugh or lament? "He's in menstrual period." This Ramakrishna did. He was also, because Jagamati experimented.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: I have seen some of them doing this, yes.

Prabhupāda: Not all of them. But they are also claiming they're on the stage of Rūpa Gosvāmī. We are preaching—we are lower stage. That is their opinion. We are preaching all over the world; we are in the lower stage. And because he has imitated the dress of Rūpa Gosvāmī, mālā, tilaka, and he's manufacturing biḍi-he's higher. This is going on. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has condemned these rascals—that kali-celā—"the disciple of Kali." Ei ota eka kali-celā.(?) Here is a disciple of Kali. Who? Nāke tilaka galāi mālā. And sahajiyā bhajana kache mamu, saṅge lana pare bala.(?) He has tilaka and mālā, and sahajiyā, with other girls he's making parakīyā-rasa-bhajana. Kali-celā. Ei ota eka kali-celā. So we have to guided by our predecessor ācāryas. Then we shall be saved. Otherwise we are condemned.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, this Nitāi and others, they have...

Satsvarūpa: You're not associated with Rādhā-kuṇḍa and that...

Pṛthu-putra: Oh, no. That was long time ago. Anyway, I was just staying in one place and didn't listen to anyone.

Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇadāsa Bābājī, he's of the same type. Not only he, mostly. Because their theory is this, to pick up some woman who is not your wife, she must be parakīyā, other's wife. And making Rādhārāṇī, and you become Kṛṣṇa, and this is parakīyā... And pointed out by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he's a kali-celā. Ei ota eka kali-celā, nāke tilaka galāi mālā, and sahajiyā bhajana kache mamur saṅge lana pare bala.(?) This is... It's not new thing. It is coming since a long time. Otherwise how Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura... He's our like grandfather.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Tell them this, that "Whatever it may be, you do your duty. That's all."

Pṛthu-putra: That's clear, very clear.

Prabhupāda: These sahajiyās will come out of so many devotees. What can be done? From my Guru Mahārāja's disciples, so many sahajiyās came. These are called sahajiyās. Very easily they capture thing. So my Guru Mahārāja used to say, "When my disciples will be sahajiyā, it will be more dangerous." He used to say like that. Take things very easily. You know that Puruṣottama, supposed to be my Godbrother?

Pṛthu-putra: No.

Prabhupāda: You don't know?

Pṛthu-putra: In Māyāpura?

Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana.

Pṛthu-putra: In Vṛndāvana. Ah, yes. Puruṣottama, yes.

Prabhupāda: He has poisoned this Nitāi.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Bhāgavata: We are threatening their sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So go on with fighting. We are not the Vṛndāvana bābājīs: "No, we are so perfect we do not go out of Vṛndāvana, and chant... Chant or not chant, we have got three dozen widows." This is going on. Sahajiyā. Still they are better because they have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, than these demons. Our Guru Mahārāja said that although we condemn these sahajiyās, but they are better than the Māyāvādīs because they accept Kṛṣṇa as Supreme Lord. Their character is not good. But still, because they accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord somehow or other, they are better than these Māyāvādīs.

Bhāgavata: Sahajiyā.

Prabhupāda: Sahajiyā means they have taken everything very easy. That's all.

Bhāgavata: Cheaply.

Gargamuni: Would you like to rest a little bit?

Prabhupāda: No. Why rest?

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: We tell them go on with your job but chant also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thākaha āpanāra kāje, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Āpanāra kāja ki. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended, sthāne sthitaḥ. And if they do not remain in the sthāna, then the sahajiyā's chanting will come. Just like the sahajiyās also have got the beads and..., but they have got three dozen women. This kind of chanting will go on. Just like our (name withheld). He was not fit for sannyāsa but he was given sannyāsa. And five women he was attached, and he disclosed. Therefore varṇāśrama-dharma is required. Simply show-bottle will not do. So the varṇāśrama-dharma should be introduced all over the world, and...

Satsvarūpa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas. There must be regular education.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The thing is that some way or other, if you are near the fire, you'll get some heat, but there is a process how to take heat.

Rāmeśvara: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: That you cannot reject. "Because I am getting little heat, it is sufficient," that is sahajiyā.

Rāmeśvara: So we are trying to use their endorsements and then make it very specific that "Therefore to meditate using the Hare Kṛṣṇa, this is healthy." So why are you attacking us?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Those who are after Hindi read. These professional Bhāgavata reader, what do they know about Bhāgavata? Rāsa-līlā, that's all. Kṛṣṇa is kissing Rādhārāṇī. Bas. That's all. And people take it that it is a sex literature. Vivekananda has said. This rascal Vivekananda has said that Vaiṣṇava religion is sexism, because they see sahajiyās in Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa. The whole thing was spoiled.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So now they are finished. They actually never even began. The whole thing was a fake.

Prabhupāda: Whole Vṛndāvana is compact of sahajiyās. They'll... Our temple is there now. Here, this certification may be printed in a block letter, and you can, kept in our entrance of Vṛndāvana temple. People will read it. Is it not good?

Page Title:Sahajiya (Conversations)
Compiler:Rishab, Serene
Created:27 of Jun, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=41, Let=0
No. of Quotes:41