Prabhupāda: Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, in his previous life, he elevated himself to the loving stage of Kṛṣṇa. Not exactly, just previous, bhāva. It is called bhāva, ecstasy. But some way or other, he could not finish, so according to the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, he was given birth to a nice brāhmaṇa family. (aside:) You can call that Bengali lady. She can hear. So very rich. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41), in that way. Rich family, at the same time, brāhmaṇa family. But richness, generally, sometimes glide down to wine, women, and intoxication. So by bad company he became woman-hunter, prostitute-hunter. So he was too much addicted to one woman, Cintāmaṇi. So his father died, and he was... He did not marry. In your country it is called girlfriend, and in our country it is called prostitute. So he was that about that prostitute, Cintāmaṇi. So he was performing the rituals, but he was thinking of his girlfriend, that Cintāmaṇi, "When I shall go there?" Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura? Yes. So he asked his servants, "Give me some food. I shall go to Cintāmaṇi." So anyway, he performed... Did not perform. His mind was there. He took some nice foodstuff, and when he went, there was a big river, and it was raining heavily, and the river was flooded. So he thought, "How shall I go the other side?" So one dead body was floating. So he thought, "It is a log," and he took the help of the log and went the other side. And it was heavy raining. And then, when he reached that Cintāmaṇi's home, he saw the door is locked already. Blocked. So he jumped over the wall, taking the tail of a serpent, and when he reached inside, he knocked the door, and Cintāmaṇi was astonished. "How did you come? So heavy rain. You had to cross the river." He said everything, that "Oh, I cannot stay without you." So she was much inquisitive: "How did you come? How did you jump over this wall?" And so he showed everything, that there was a big snake, and so he thought it as rope and jumped it. And then, when he went to the riverside, he saw that was a dead body. So at that time Cintāmaṇi thought, "Oh, this man is so much addicted to me." So she told, "Oh, this much attraction if you would have with Kṛṣṇa, oh, how nice your life would have been." So immediately he came to his senses because he was lifted to that position in his previous life. So immediately he left and was going alone to Vṛndāvana.
Rope (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Allen Ginsberg: And then?
Prabhupāda: Then diminish.
Allen Ginsberg: So what is the purpose of right now, a world increase...
Prabhupāda: People will take advantage of this up to ten thousand years. Then they will...
Allen Ginsberg: So this is like the last rope, the last gasp.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. So the sooner we take to shelter, shelter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is better.
Allen Ginsberg: Well, then, according to Vedic theory, when did this yuga begin? According to this Vedic theory... Or... This is śāstra?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Allen Ginsberg: When did this yuga...?
Prabhupāda: Begin from this Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He introduced five hundred years ago, and it will continue now.
Hayagrīva: Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga has begun five thousand years ago.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Karandhara: Yes. Now he is pulling car.
Prabhupāda: That's all. What is that? That within he's..., that golf area. (Apparently, a man is mowing grass on a machine in the background) That's all. (laughing) You know the cow? The cow is stuck up with a pole in India and long rope, and he's thinking, "I am free."
Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: They have made a longer rope.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And he is thinking, "I am so free." Is not? This rascaldom is going on.
Paramahaṁsa: The one who wrote Paradise Lost, Milton, he also wrote a poem which said that, "A working man is nothing but a devil's slave."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it.
Paramahaṁsa: "He works so hard for his money, but not his life can he save."
Prabhupāda: No, what he will do with the money? He will satisfy his senses, that's all.
Paramahaṁsa: So he sells his life.
Prabhupāda: So he's servant of the senses.
Guest (1): This guru's grace is working. It is invisible, you see. This is all-powerful.
Prabhupāda: No, you can get also, provided you take it. (laughter) Guru is not miser. (laughter)
Guest (1): (indistinct) is, Gurudeva you see, I want that...
Prabhupāda: The one thing is they take it. Others will not take it. That is the difference. If... There is a picture; my Guru Mahārāja has..., one man has fallen in a deep well, and he's crying "Save me!" So another man dropped a rope, that "You catch it. I shall carry you." Then he'll not catch it. Then how he can be drawn. So... (break) ...mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is nothing more superior than Me." We are preaching the same thing, that "You are searching after God. You are, some of you are disgusted that 'There is no God,' but here is God. You take His name. You take His address. You take His daily activities. Everything is there." And that is our mission. And we started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in 1966. So when I registered this society, somebody suggested that "Why not make it 'God consciousness?' " And no, I want to give definitely what is God. God, they have got different conception. But here is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). That is the Vedic injunction. "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." And when He was present, He proved it, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have not introduced any new system of religion. That is not a fact. We have simply placed, administered, the same thing which was spoken five thousand years ago. That's all. Five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa said that "There is nothing, no more superior authority than Me." We are preaching the same thing. The same old thing. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). "You just surrender unto Me." Kṛṣṇa said that "Surrender unto Me," and we are speaking, "Surrender unto Kṛṣṇa;" same thing. Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the origin of everything." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). We are speaking the same thing, that the original source of everything is Kṛṣṇa.
Rūpānuga: He is mean.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply if you are passing by... Just like dog. Without any fault, bark, "Wowf! Wowf! Wowf! Worf!" This is the animal nature. Without any fault, I am passing, I am not entering his gate. Still, the dog will bark. Similarly, the snake... You simply pass through. He will feel pleasure, biting you. That is snake's business. Therefore nobody is merciful upon snake.
Karandhara: Because of his poison.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) There was a snake. He was living under my bed. So you know katiya? (?) The rope, katiya? So I saw something is hanging like snake tail. So I called my servant, "There must be some snake. Some tail is hanging." So the servant, they called all their friends. They came with stick, about a dozen. And as soon as the mattress was taken, there was snake. So I told them, "Don't kill it. No, no." "Nei saheb, yei nei hatya." (?) Ah, immediately killed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Once there was a big cobra, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in home in Manipura, in our kitchen. He was just coiling and just sitting there, but he was very mild, because he was about to skin his skin. By that time, he doesn't bite anything, very tame.
Prabhupāda: No, sometimes the serpents are tamed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...and Nalakuvara, but He remained bound up.
Indian Man (1): About His līlā?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Yaśodāmāyī is more powerful than Kṛṣṇa.
Indian Man (1): No, devotees are more powerful always.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) Just see. He liberated Nalakuvera, but He remained bound up by the rope of Yaśodāmāyī. (break) ...children. (break) ...some conjugal love.
Dr. Patel: Then he became eight years old. How could any gopī have conjugal love with a boy of seven or eight years?
Indian Man (1): Spiritual love.
Prabhupāda: That is not this love. That is a different love.
Dr. Patel: Conjugal love is mādhurya-rāsa.
Prabhupāda: Mādhurya-rāsa, yes... (break) eat along with my father. Unless I come, father will not...
Dr. Patel: But you were brought up in a big city, but I was brought up in a small village. Actually... (break)
Prabhupāda: The same. It doesn't matter whether it is in the village or town.
Yogeśvara: This is where they go water skiing.
Prabhupāda: Water skiing?
Yogeśvara: Yes. They stand on two pieces of wood and they hold on to a rope, and a fast boat pulls them along the water, like that.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Like, what you have? Surfer? Surfer?
Karandhara: Surfing. Yeah, similar.
Prabhupāda: Surfing. Surfing or suffering? (laughter) Unnecessarily, whole day and night they are... This is also another example of māyā. He is actually suffering, but he's thinking, enjoying. It always remains calm and quiet? There is no waves?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Sometimes. In the morning it's very calm.
Prabhupāda: But there cannot be any big waves.
Guru-gaurāṅga: No. Not like ocean. (break)
Bhagavān: They are importing dogs in India now, I think.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guest (3): ...try to convince them: No, that is false and this is the way.
Prabhupāda: No, their Ramakrishna Mission allurement is that daridra-nārāyaṇa-seva and hospital. That is their only allurement. They have no program. Nobody is attracted by their philosophy. And what philosophy they have got? Never mind. We are not concerned with them.
Madhudviṣa: When we were in Māyāpur, I had the idea of...
Prabhupāda: Aiye (Hindi) (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Guest (4) (Indian man): Purī Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: Purī Mahārāja? Oh? (Bengali) Oh. This Caitanya Mahāprabhu? (Sounds like looking at child's? drawing) Very good. Hang it here. Very good.
Madhudviṣa: Get some ropes.
Prabhupāda: No, get some rope. Just read. (end)
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Nitāi: The Supreme Personality of Godhead has innumerable energies, and all these energies are divine. Although the living entities are part of His energies and are therefore divine, due to contact with material energy, their original superior power is covered. Being thus covered by material energy, one cannot possibly overcome its influence. As previously stated, both the material and spiritual natures, being emanations from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, are eternal. The living entities belong to the eternal superior nature of the Lord, but due to contamination by the inferior nature, matter, their illusion is also eternal. The conditioned soul is therefore called nitya-baddha, or eternally conditioned. No one can trace out the history of his becoming conditioned at a certain date in material history. Consequently, his release from the clutches of material nature is very difficult, even though that material nature is an inferior energy, because material energy is ultimately conducted by the supreme will, which the living entity cannot overcome. Inferior material nature is defined herein as divine nature due to its divine connection and movement by the divine will. Being conducted by divine will, material nature, although inferior, acts so wonderfully in the construction and destruction of the cosmic manifestation. The Vedas confirm this as follows:
- māyāṁ tu prakṛtiṁ vidyān māyinaṁ tu maheśvaram.
"Although māyā (illusion) is false or temporary, the background of māyā is the supreme magician, the Personality of Godhead, who is Maheśvara, the supreme controller."
Another meaning of guṇa is rope; it is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself—he must be helped by a person who is unbound. Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore, only Lord Kṛṣṇa, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can release the conditioned soul. Without such superior help, one cannot be freed from the bondage of material nature. Devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, can help one gain such release. Kṛṣṇa, being the Lord of illusory energy, can order this insurmountable energy to release the conditioned soul. He orders this release out of His causeless mercy on the surrendered soul and out of His paternal affection for the living entity who is originally a beloved son of the Lord. Therefore surrender unto the lotus feet of the Lord is the only means to get free from the clutches of the stringent material nature.
The words mām eva are also significant. Mām means unto Kṛṣṇa (Viṣṇu) only, and not Brahmā or Śiva. Although Brahmā and Śiva are greatly elevated and are almost on the level of Viṣṇu, it is not possible for such incarnations of rājo-guṇa (passion) and tamo-guṇa (ignorance) to release the conditioned soul from the clutches of māyā. In other words, both Brahmā and Śiva are also under the influence of māyā. Only Viṣṇu is the master of māyā; therefore He can alone give release to the conditioned soul. The Vedas confirm this in the phrase tvam eva viditvā or "Freedom is possible only by understanding Kṛṣṇa." Even Lord Śiva affirms that liberation can be achieved only by the mercy of Viṣṇu. Lord Śiva says:
- mukti-pradātā sarveṣāṁ viṣṇur eva na saṁśayaḥ.
"There is no doubt that Viṣṇu is the deliverer of liberation for everyone.
Prabhupāda: So everything is explained. If anyone wants to take advantage of it, he can take. We have got fifty books like this. Those who are interested in the science and philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can read all these books. Otherwise, one can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, That will also help. The human civilization means everyone shall try to become first-class man. This is human civilization, not to remain like animals. That attempt is lacking now. Here the civilization is that the dog is jumping or running, and human being is running in a motor car, and he is thinking he is more civilized than the dog. But the business is running. That's all. The dog is having sex on the street, and the human being is having sex in a very nice decorated apartment and therefore he is civilized. But the business is the same. The dog is eating on the floor and the human being is eating in a very nice table, nice dish, and therefore he is civilized. But the business is eating. The dog is trying to defend itself by barking or by teeth and jaws, and the human being is trying to defend the society by atom bomb, but the business is defense.
Hrdayananda: So the devotee sees Kṛṣṇa in death also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is everything. Without Kṛṣṇa, there cannot be anything. Janmādyasya yataḥ. The example is given: Just like the rope. Somebody is taking it is snake. He is frightened. And one knows this is rope, he is not frightened. So actually the one thing—God is one—He is distributed in so many manifestations. So one realizes that it is God. By His energy He is manifested in so many forms. So why he should be frightened?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a uttama-adhikārī.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayādvaita: Now, in the modern days, they take it the other way, that "Everything is God, so I can do anything."
Prabhupāda: But you are not God. You are rascal. (laughter) That is Māyāvāda theory, that "Because God is everything, therefore I am God." That is Māyāvāda. Just like Vivekananda said, "Why you are finding out here and there God? Here is God, so many, on this street." That is his theory.
Prabhupāda: You have fixed up?
Guṇārṇava: They are fixing today. They started the work.
Prabhupāda: You know how to fix?
Guṇārṇava: Yes. They know how to do it.
Prabhupāda: One bamboo, you just crosswise fix up and then in the middle... The rope should come through one pulley first, then the second pulley. Then it will not go out.
Indian man (1): Ringing also will be nice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you see to fix it up nicely. Harer nāma, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Saccidānanda said they are purchasing vegetables, fruits-125—but you have increased, 190. Why?
Dhanañjaya: The devotees' prasāda? Devotees' bhoga?
Prabhupāda: Devotees or... Daily they were purchasing 125. But you said, "No, it must be more," and the banana is rotting. Why do you purchase more?
Dhanañjaya: No, I allotted five rupees per person.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it must be spent.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Harikeśa: Well, I have a certain amount of experience, and with my intelligence and my mind and my scientific method, I can put all that together and come out with some practical solution which I can work on.
Prabhupāda: That you cannot, because you are not independent. Uru-damni baddhaḥ. If you are tied hands and legs with strong rope, how you can think of "I shall become free in this way. I shall become free...?" But your hands and legs are tied up, so why do you think foolishly that you shall become free in this way, you shall become free this way? First of all open this, the tightening knot; then you plan that "I shall become..." But there is no such chance. So what is the value of your thinking like that?
Harikeśa: Well, relatively speaking, it's better to do...
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. Because you are so rascal, you do not know that "I cannot move even an inch and I am making plan." That is the proof that you are a rascal.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Tena vinā tṛṇam api na calati. That is the way.
Harikeśa: But why are people in the capital...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we call them all rascals. That is our confirmation of our statement. Mūḍhas, you all rascals, without any exception. Hm? The other day the high-court judge, he's supposed to be the most intelligent person within this state, high-court judge, and he was talking so many nonsense.
Jayapatāka: Cots.
Prabhupāda: Cot. Mass of cot.
Jayapatāka: With rope.
Prabhupāda: With rope. That's all. Small. You can keep fifty, sixty. So keep it in one place. And at night take one, and anywhere you can sleep. Very easy. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Children: Jaya Prabhupāda!
Prabhupāda: Jaya. (break) ...ṣata-doltena malenatvaṁ na muñcyati.(?) If you take a coal and wash it, one who has... Still black.
Jayapatāka: And he does not allow himself to be washed. He never comes to the temple.
Prabhupāda: No. If he... A coal, however you go on with soap and other things, go on washing, it will never become clean. Aṅgarasya śata-doltena malenatvaṁ na muyati.(?) What is the defect? Why the...? The window is becoming black.
Jayapatāka: The lids are... We purchased some new lids yesterday. The lids have been damaged. Therefore the smoke is leaking.
Prabhupāda: So why damage cannot be repaired?
Jayapatāka: No, we purchased yesterday. They're going to install today. (break)
Hariśauri: ...has painted for your books. So he must be fairly good.
Prabhupāda: If he has painted for my books, then he should be first class.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise you will be captured.
Madhudviṣa: Otherwise we shouldn't listen.
Prabhupāda: No.
Jayādvaita: In America that's called giving someone enough rope to hang himself.
Prabhupāda: Mm.
Pañcadraviḍa: In South India, when we were down there, we had to do that. We listened to them first and then took their money.
Madhudviṣa: But we also should defeat them.
Pañcadraviḍa: Taking their money is defeating them.
Lokanātha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the position of vrajavāsīs, those who are living in Vṛndāvana now? What happens to them next life?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply by living, if they do not commit any sinful, they'll go back to home. Simply by living. Without committing any sinful activities. Always remember Kṛṣṇa, this is Kṛṣṇa's land, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. That will deliver them.
Prabhupāda: This is especially meant for the brāhmaṇas, intelligent. Go on.
Hṛdayānanda:
- ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam
- ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ
- sneha-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham
- utsaheta vimocitum
"What person too attached to household life due to being unable to control his senses can liberate himself? An attached householder is bound very strongly by ropes of affection for his family—wife, children and other relatives." Purport: "Prahlāda Mahārāja's first proposal was kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha: (SB 7.6.1) 'One who is sufficiently intelligent should use the human form of body from the very beginning of life—in other words, from the tender age of childhood—to practice the activities of devotional service, giving up all other engagements.' Dharmān bhāgavatān means the religious principle of reviving our relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. For this purpose Kṛṣṇa personally advises, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) 'Give up all other duties and surrender unto Me.' While in the material world we manufacture so many duties in the name of so many isms, but our actual duty is to free ourselves from the cycle of birth, death, old age and disease. For this purpose, one must first be liberated from material bondage, and especially from household life. Household life is actually a kind of license for a materially attached person by which to enjoy sense gratification under regulative principles. Otherwise there is no need of entering household life.
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Hari-śauri: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead has innumerable energies, and all of these energies are divine. Although the living entities are part of His energies, and are therefore divine, due to contact with material energy their original superior power is covered. Being thus covered by material energy, one cannot possibly overcome its influence. As previously stated, both the material and spiritual natures, being emanations from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, are eternal. The living entities belong to the eternal superior nature of the Lord, but due to contamination by the inferior nature, matter, their illusion is also eternal. The conditioned soul is therefore called nitya-baddha, or eternally conditioned. No one can trace out the history of his becoming conditioned at a certain date in material history. Consequently, his release from the clutches of material nature is very difficult, even though that material nature is an inferior energy, because material energy is ultimately conducted by the Supreme Will, which the living entity cannot overcome. Inferior material nature is defined herein as divine nature due to its divine connection and movement by the divine will. Being conducted by the divine will, material nature, although inferior, acts so wonderfully in the construction and destruction of the cosmic manifestation that the Vedas confirm this as follows: māyāṁ tu prakṛtiṁ vidyān māyinaṁ tu maheśvaram. Although māyā is false and temporary, the background of māyā is the supreme magician, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is Maheśvara, the supreme controller. Another meaning of guṇa is rope. It is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly bound by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself. He must be helped by a person who is unbound, because the bound cannot help the bound. The rescuer must be liberated. Therefore only Lord Kṛṣṇa or His bone fide representative the spiritual master can release the conditioned soul. Without such superior help, one cannot be freed from the bondage of material nature. Devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, can help one gain such release. Kṛṣṇa, being the Lord of the illusory energy, can order this insurmountable energy to release the conditioned soul. He orders this release out of His causeless mercy on the surrendered soul, and out of His paternal affection for the living entity, who is originally a beloved son of the Lord. Therefore surrender unto the lotus feet of the Lord is the only means to get free from the clutches of the stringent material nature. The words mām eva are also significant. Mām means unto Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, only, and not Brahmā or Śiva. Although Brahmā and Śiva are greatly elevated and are almost on the level of Viṣṇu, it is not possible for such incarnations of rajo-guṇa (passion) and tamo-guṇa (ignorance) to release the conditioned soul from the clutches of māyā. In other words, both Brahmā and Śiva are under the influence of māyā. Only Viṣṇu is the master of māyā. Therefore He alone can give release to the conditioned soul. The Vedas confirm this in the phrase tvam eva viditvā, or 'Freedom is possible only by understanding Kṛṣṇa.' Even Lord Śiva affirms that liberation can be achieved only at the mercy of Viṣṇu. Lord Śiva says, mukti-pradātā sarveṣāṁ viṣṇur eva na saṁśayaḥ: 'There is no doubt that Viṣṇu is the deliverer of liberation for everyone.' "
Prabhupāda: The institution is already there. We are conducting Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if the government cooperates that a certain number of students must be trained up scientifically what is the meaning of God, that will be very much beneficial to the state or to the country. We can give solution for any problem. "We" means Kṛṣṇa. We are simply preaching Kṛṣṇa's message. Kṛṣṇa means God. Kṛṣṇa means black also. Kṛṣṇa, this word, (chuckles) means black also. He is following?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Another meaning of kṛṣṇa is blackish.
Mādhavānanda: Dancing. (pause) Vṛtrāsura, he said the same thing when he was fighting Lord Indra, that a son who is neither a devotee nor a hero is useless.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu said if there is no Kṛṣṇa, then everything is useless. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. (long pause) (break)
Mādhavānanda: ...attach a rope to the back of the boat and they have wooden skis...
Prabhupāda: Plank.
Mādhavānanda: ...and they ski on the water for sport.
Jayādvaita: Satsvarūpa Mahārāja and I were at some place where there was a lake, and on Saturday and Sunday so many speedboats with people playing and enjoying, and on Monday, no boats. Everyone was working again.
Prabhupāda: They do not want to work. Therefore they take advantage of Sunday. Inclination is not to work. But unfortunately that is not possible. If they do not work, they cannot eat. But if we say that "There is a place, without working you can eat, and for example come to us," they will not accept. Then they will say, "You are escaping. You are escaping." (laughs) If you work, that you don't like, and if somebody does not work, he's escaping.
Hari-śauri: "This body is called kṣetra, and within it dwells the owner of the body and the Supreme Lord, who knows both the body and the owner of the body. Therefore He is called the knower of all fields. The distinction between the field of activities, the owner of activities, and the supreme owner of activities is described as follows. Perfect knowledge of the constitution of the body, the constitution of the individual soul, and the constitution of the Supersoul is known in terms of Vedic literature as jñānam. That is the opinion of Kṛṣṇa. To understand both the soul and the Supersoul as one yet distinct is knowledge. One who does not understand the field of activity and the knower of activity is not in perfect knowledge. One has to understand the position of prakṛti, nature, and puruṣa, the enjoyer of the nature, and īśvara, the knower who dominates or controls nature and the individual soul. One should not confuse the three in their different capacities. One should not confuse the painter, the painting and the easel. This material world, which is the field of activities, is nature, and the enjoyer of nature is the living entity, and above them both is the supreme controller, the Personality of Godhead. It is stated in the Vedic language: bhoktā bhogyaṁ preritāraṁ ca matvā/ sarvaṁ proktaṁ tri-vidhaṁ brahmam etat. There are three Brahman conceptions: prakṛti is Brahman as the field of activities, and the jīva (individual soul) is also Brahman and is trying to control material nature, and the controller of both of them is also Brahman, but He is the factual controller. In this chapter it will be also explained that out of the two knowers, one is fallible and the other is infallible. One is superior and the other is subordinate. One who understands the two knowers of the field to be one and the same contradicts the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who states here very clearly that 'I am also the knower of the field of activity.' One who misunderstands a rope to be a serpent is not in knowledge. There are different types of bodies, and there are different owners of the bodies. Because each individual soul has his individual capacity of lording it over material nature, there are different bodies. But the Supreme also is present in them as the controller. The word ca is significant, because it indicates the total number of bodies. That is the opinion of Śrīla Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa: Kṛṣṇa is the Supersoul present in each and every body apart from the individual soul. And Kṛṣṇa explicitly says here that the Supersoul is the controller of both the field of activities and the finite enjoyer."
George Gullen: Thank you for reading this to me. I'm afraid I must be discourteous and leave you at the moment. I am speaking at a dinner meeting for my university.
Prabhupāda: All right.
George Gullen: I was delighted with Miss Reuther's call, for the chance to come and for this opportunity to listen to you, and I'm very grateful to her for calling.
Prabhupāda: Give him some prasādam.
Prabhupāda: You may read that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "One of India's biggest and most ancient religious festivals, Ratha-yātrā, the festival of the chariots, which has been enacted in several Western cities in recent years, is to be staged in South Africa in July. The festival in honor of Lord Kṛṣṇa is planned to be held in Durban next month by the local branch of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, widely known as the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Based on the thousands-of-years-old annual parade of the three main deities of the Jagannātha temple on huge chariots through the streets of Purī, Orissa, the festival has been staged by devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa in major world cities such as London, Paris, New York, Washington, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Chicago, Montreal and Melbourne, following the spreading of Kṛṣṇa consciousness amongst thousands of Westerners in the decade since the founding of the movement in 1966 by Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Almost a million devotees participate in the chariot festival held every summer at Purī, where they offer oblations to Lord Kṛṣṇa; lend a hand, tugging the ropes, to pull the huge chariots; line the grand route; or simply attend to see the color and pageantry from high vantage points. Jagannātha-The three colossal chariots from which the term Jagannātha is derived carry the three Jagannātha Deities of Lord Balarāma, the Lord who gives spiritual strength and pleasure; Lady Subhadrā, one who is the auspicious one; and Lord Jagannātha, the Lord of the universe,"—with a capital L—"on the three-kilometer journey symbolizing Lord Kṛṣṇa's visit to the town of His childhood pastimes. This year ISKCON will sponsor Ratha-yātrā festivals in ten cities worldwide. Durban, however, is not amongst them, as the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is fairly new and has not yet established itself on a firm basis and increased its following in Durban. Branch members are enthusiastic and are hoping to organize a procession of their own through the streets of Durban to coincide with the festivals which will be held in several major cities."
Prabhupāda: They are arranging like that or not? Our branch there?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They want to. I told them that better to wait until they have some more local support, because they would have to have Deity worship, and I don't think they're ready for Jagannātha deities there. There's only eleven devotees in Durban. So when they have some more local support, they can start holding.
Prabhupāda: No, this Jagannātha festival will be participated by all the Indians. There is no doubt about it. So our few men, and with the cooperation of the local Indians, it can be successful.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, the ideas are running out. That's why now they are doing on the biological sciences mainly.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is another nonsense. Why they are checking the flow?
Vipina: The water is too rough for the boats to travel, so they made this artificial canal so boats could travel without getting wrecked, and they could transport their items of sense gratification in that way. They used to have mules that pulled the boats with ropes alongside here, these pathways, pulled them through the canal.
Prabhupāda: It will grow mosquitoes, mosquito plant.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mosquitoes. When the devotees came back from India, many got malaria, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I think we got to do something next year.
Prabhupāda: Get a mosquito curtain. That's all. Get a mosquito curtain. In India everywhere there is mosquito. I think in your country also.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes, many mosquitoes. They are also in Florida, many mosquitoes, when it rains.
Prabhupāda: Tropical climate, there is mosquitoes. (break) That is falls?
Hari-śauri: No, it's just a ravine.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, He is called Param Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman, but He is Param Brahman. That is accepted by Arjuna, paraṁ brahma paraṁ brahma pavitram.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "In this chapter it will also be explained that out of the two knowers, one is fallible and the other is infallible; one is superior and the other subordinate. One who understands the two knowers of the field to be one and the same contradicts the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who states here very clearly that 'I am also the knower of the field of activity.' One who misunderstands a rope to be a serpent is not in knowledge."
Prabhupāda: He says "I am also." Ksetrajñaṁ ca. Ca means "also." They are two. Individual, kṣetrajñaḥ, and the collective, kṣetrajñaṁ ca. There is kṣetrajñam, I am also there. They are two, not one. Ksetrajñaṁ cāpi ca api, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi. As soon as there is ca, "and," then there are two. Not one. One is subordinate and one is supreme. Therefore He is addressed, paraṁ brahma. Brahma..., jīva is also Brahman. But He is Param Brahman. Paramātmā: Jīva is also ātmā, but He is Paramātmā. Parameśvara: jīva is also īśvara, but He is Parameśvara. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). This is Vedic version. There are īśvaras, controllers, many controllers, but parama controller, Parameśvara, is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Opportunists. Useless. They have no value.
Indian man: Thirty percent of the Indian families, they are Ārya-samājīs, and twenty percent are South Indian Śaivaites. I get a lot of argument that "Rāmacandrajī did the pūjā of Śivajī at Rāmeśvaram, so Śiva is greater than Rāma." I said, "Consider this, that Rāma was so humble to do the pūjā of Śivajī, but in Rāmastotrāṇi it says rāma rāmeti rāmeti ramerama manorane, shastranama tat tulyam sri-rama-nama ramarame.(?) That is what Śivajī is telling Pārvatī. Śivajī is telling Pārvatī in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19)." I say, "Why does Śivajī say that? Why is Śivajī sitting in samādhi? Why not Kṛṣṇa sitting in samādhi? Why not Rāma sitting in samādhi? Why not Mahā-Viṣṇu sitting in samādhi? Because Śivajī's position is to serve Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa as Rāma is so humble that He came and even did His devotee's pūjā."
Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa is afraid of Mother Yaśodā's rope. But that does not mean He is no longer the Supreme Lord.
Indian man: Exactly, exactly, exactly.
Prabhupāda: He's afraid of "Mother, don't bind Me." So everyone is afraid of Kṛṣṇa, and He is afraid of His mother's rope. So does it mean Kṛṣṇa has become no more the Supreme?
Indian man: In fact, you might have heard of Satya Sai Baba in India.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, right on the wood.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the only place that was varnished in Philadelphia? The rest is painted, right?
Rāmeśvara: I believe so.
Ādi-keśava: Simply by your presence, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the carts will move.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those look like good ropes.
Ādi-keśava: He said they are made out of some nylon, very strong.
Rāmeśvara: Lord Jagannātha was carried by...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wheels are all right?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow, they are painted nicely. It's going to be a very attractive ceremony.
Prabhupāda: So all the cars should go also, behind.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have some..., I think we have a lot of good vans here, Rāmeśvara.
Rāmeśvara: We can arrange for it at prasādam. That's the time when everyone should be there.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very nicely made, everything.
Prabhupāda: Not only our men, outsiders also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many outsiders were doing that.
Hari-śauri: They like to pull the ropes. It's a big experience for them.
Prabhupāda: (belches loudly) What is this gas, oxygen? No. They put some gas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Carbon dioxide. CO2. You should have seen it. It was literally completely filled. We put on a play. First we did a big kīrtana, after you left, very big, and many, at least a thousand to two thousand people were dancing. Then there was a play, and the people crowded to see that play of Kali, Sudāmā. Oh, they were amazed to see. Sudāmā was moving around, dancing, watching. They like that very much.
Prabhupāda: Sudāmā plays nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's expert. Especially at that part, Kali and Sin. (laughter) And then after that I looked out at the crowd and literally I could not see any open space in the park. Really, I was shocked. Even where there was a fountain, the whole fountain was filled with people; even where there was water, they were standing in the water, there were so many people. It was hot, so they were standing. And the beautiful thing is because there was a fountain, the air was blowing the water all the way to the stage.
Prabhupāda: It is very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were preaching all this time.
Bali-mardana: Preaching and kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja chanted.
Prabhupāda: Our offer is you surrender to God. Now it is you choice, whether you want to surrender not. That is you business. We are offering everyone that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, or God. Kṛṣṇa also says the same thing, "You surrender to Me," and we are asking, "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." The business is the same, there is no change, as it is. Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender to Me," we say, "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." There is no difference. As it is.
Ali: My question was how could one choose when he himself is ignorant?
Prabhupāda: By knowledge. Here is knowledge. You have not surrendered to God, you take the knowledge from God that "You surrender to Me." That is knowledge. Why don't you take it? Where is the question of ignorance? You may be in ignorance, but when the knowledge comes directly, that "You surrender to Me," then you can do it. Just like a man is fallen in a dark well. He's crying, "Save me, save me," and one man drops a rope, "Please catch it, I'll save you." If you don't catch, then whose fault it is? Kṛṣṇa comes directly, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8), and He says, "Do it." If you don't do it, then whose fault it is? It is your fault. You don't catch it. Kṛṣṇa says, "Here is the rope, catch it," then whose fault is it?
Mrs. Sahani: Excuse me, once you surrender to God, will you still have to look for an authority to guide you, or Kṛṣṇa helps you to find Him?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is giving direction, but we have no such intelligence.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but they cannot explain what is this controller; therefore they disbelieve. Just like yesterday we were discussing that atheist class, that they are by chance there was lusty desires and there was pregnancy and there will be child. So we say, "No. Daiva-netreṇa. These things have been arranged by superior authorities." This is destiny, that what is already arranged by superior authority, that is destiny. You cannot change it. A man is ordered to be hanged by court justice, you cannot change. He is to be hanged. And they will say, "By chance he will be hanged."
Jñānagamya: Sometimes something happens to interfere with that. He gets a reprieve from the governor, or the rope breaks, and they only hang him once.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but first thing is that if one is ordered to be hanged, he has to be hanged. Destined. But these people, they do not see who has ordered because they do not accept authority. They will say, "It is by chance." They have not seen who has ordered, who is that authority. They cannot explain; therefore they say "Chance."
Jñānagamya: They have no science of astrology, so they cannot understand the universe and how it's working.
Prabhupāda: Astrology... I don't think they believe in astrology. There is no question of astrology. We practically we see that one man ordered to be hanged by the justice, he has to be hanged. That is destiny. One has not seen who has ordered, but he sees that "This man is being hanged." He cannot explain; he says, "By chance." So whose explanation is right? The chance explanation or the destiny explanation—which is right?
Mrs. Patel: It is convenient for them to.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not convenient, foolishness. A rabbit, when there is some big animals, he closes his eyes. He thinks, "There is no danger." That does not mean he's out of danger. He'll be eaten up. So simply by concocting that there is no life after death, you'll not be escaped. In Bhagavad-gītā informs, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. There is no need of studying any literature, Vedic literature. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, Kṛṣṇa is giving evidence. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This dehāntara-prāptiḥ, I was not this body in the beginning, I was a very jubilant child like this. Where is that body? That body is not existing. It is different body, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So why they do not believe dehāntara-prāptiḥ? I am the same soul who possessed a child's body, young man's body, boy's body. Now I have got the old man's body. So dehāntara is there, and I am still. I remember, I was a child, I was lying down on the lap of my elder sister. I remember still. But where is that body? It is different body. This is dehāntara-prāptiḥ. I am the same man who was lying down on the lap of my elder sister, and now I am differently situated. The body has changed. This is the proof, Kṛṣṇa is giving you this proof. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So if we accept authority of Kṛṣṇa and His statement, so reasonable and so scientific, then our life is successful. And if we don't care for them, let us do our business. But nature will not excuse. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). Simply our false ahaṅkāra, egotism: "Ah, I don't care." You may do that, but prakṛti will take action. Because you are under the control of the nature's law. Uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Uru means very hard, tight. Or uru means the thigh. And dāmni (means) by ropes, baddha. We cannot transgress the laws of nature. If we willfully transgress, we can do that, but we will have to suffer. If you touch fire, it will burn. It will not excuse that "Here is a child, he did not know." No excuse. Either a child or elderly, you have touched fire, then you must be burned. This is nature's law. Very strict. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). Why you have got different bodies? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. As we have associated with the modes of material nature, we have got different types of bodies. Otherwise, why there are so many varieties of forms? The forms are different, but within the form, the soul is one.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, maybe we could show that movie now?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Which side you'll show? This side.
Prabhupāda: We are meant for this purpose, coordination, but if you take our... You have taken prasāda?
Minister: Yes, we did. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...and he is such a big man that he goes above the ācāryas. Ati-buddhi. Ati-buddhi galaya dekhe. (?) If one is overintelligent, hang him. That is a Bengali saying. Ati-buddhi galaya dekhe (?). If one is unnecessarily overintelligent, just hang him with a rope in the neck. He is ati-buddhi. Anyway, he was intelligent to purchase.
Devotee: (aside:) He thought that it would explain...
Prabhupāda: You have to read the subject matter. Even if he thinks that it is written by Bopadeva, such a great knowledge, one has to read. Such great knowledge is not possible by Bopadeva and unless... He is incarnation of God, Vyāsadeva. It is said... (indistinct) Not this. (indistinct)
Mahāṁsa: Which volume do you want, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Second volume. Varīyān eṣa...
Harikeśa: Second Canto, Part One, verse one.
Hari-śauri: You should make some padded covers for them.
Prabhupāda: Who is doing that? Everyone is irresponsible.
Akśayananda: Even with that, they break.
Hari-śauri: But at least it helps the chances they'll survive.
Prabhupāda: The one thing is that they neglect that rings. That ring and the strap, if it is... That will never do. As soon as they khol, some rope, bas.
Hari-śauri: Usually what breaks is that little leather loop, you know, the small loop on each end. That's what usually breaks. If you want to...
Prabhupāda: No, if you make it nicely with chain.
Akśayananda: I have made it even nicely with a cord, with a ring, and the proper straps. But they put it like this and like this and they bang it the wrong way. This is my problem. I can't stop it, no matter what we do.
Hari-śauri: You just bring them out for ārati and then have somebody take them back and they won't get broken. Haṁsadūta was doing that with his mṛdaṅgas.
Akśayananda: I was also doing that.
Hari-śauri: The mṛdaṅgas are in there all day long. Any karmī that comes in, they beat the drum and mess around. The little kids go in and they do the same thing. I've seen them. You should take them out of the temple. Let them be there for kīrtana and then take them away and store them in your room. There's no kartālas now either because everybody steals them.
Prabhupāda: These two rooms can be used for keeping.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then what can be done? A man has fallen in the dark well, crying. You give him one rope: "Catch it." But he'll not catch. Then how you can deliver? Let him suffer. So he had asked him to go to the municipal...?
Girirāja: Yes, 3:30 on Monday. These M.P.'s are just here for a few days, and they have very busy schedule. So I have arranged for one man to come tomorrow. He can see you... (break)
Prabhupāda: So? Now, this nationalism idea, so you have trace out the whole history. By introducing this nationalism, what improvement gave? Nationalism, the leader, it began in Europe, the Romans. They wanted to spread. Where are the Romans now? Carthagian, old history, Egyptian, Grecian, then, later on, Moguls or then British. So where are these groups? "Combined together, exploit others." That was, that means, a gang of rogues. Rogues and thieves, they... And by doing that, what they have actually done? The Romans, now their broken buildings are there. And people go to see the fun, how they used to enjoy. What is that called?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Coliseum. That's the Greek Coliseum, they...
Prabhupāda: By keeping one lion and fighting him and it is enjoyed. What is this? What they have gained? In this way, the privileged... Is it not subject perception? What Napoleon has done? Or Hitler has done? Or Churchill has done?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about nationalism here in India?
Prabhupāda: They are imitating. What Gandhi has done? These things are cheating, spoiled. Then they have now a slogan to drive away poverty. Vivekananda imitated, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. So Vivekananda started his mission in India hundred years ago. Why there are so many daridras lying on the street at night? Hm? Everywhere. Here you can say, "India is poverty-stricken." That is your imagination. Accepting that, those who are materially opulent, why they are also, they're lying on the street? Why in Bowery Street they are lying on the street? Why in the Bedford Park English boys are lying on street?
Prabhupāda: Advice... Well, you come here. Stay here. We shall teach you. Not that you have come here for five minutes—I have to teach you sarva-dharmān...
Indian man (5): No, you don't have time.
Prabhupāda: No, I have got time. So that's all right. You have to... You have to learn it.
Indian man (3): Swamiji, you bless ourselves in such a way that we will not...
Prabhupāda: You have come. You are welcome here and take the blessings. But you won't come. When I say, "Come here and take the blessings," you won't come. What can I do? If one has fallen in the blind well—"Please get me up! Get me up!"—so I give him a rope: "Yes, catch it. I'll get you..." "No, no, I shall not catch." Without catching, there is no... So if you want to learn, come here. Stay. We shall teach you. That you won't do. Then how can I teach you? You learn from them. Just see these European and Americans, how they are... You have to learn from them by their behavior. These are American boys. Just see how they have tilaka, how they...
Indian man (3): No, Swamiji, we know Swamiji's tremendous work going on around the world.
Prabhupāda: So if I can teach them, who did not know what is Kṛṣṇa, I cannot teach you? I can teach you. But you won't take the teaching. That is the difficulty. Stubborn. That is difficulty.
Indian man (1): Our fault.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes.
Indian man (1): Our fault.
Prabhupāda: It is our fault we won't take. A man has fallen in the blind well, and he's crying, "Save me! Save me!" and when somebody comes and gives him a rope—"You catch it. I shall lift you"—but he'll not touch it. Then who can save him? The rope is there, the man is there, and he is crying, but when we request that "You take it," he won't take. Aiye. So how he can be saved? And Kṛṣṇa said, mad-āśrayaḥ. But he'll not take mad-āśrayaḥ. He'll take āśraya of something else. This is the position. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha. People are harassed to understand God, whether there is God or not God, who is God. When I first went to America, the theory was going that "God is dead." And what was the...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a newspaper...
Prabhupāda: Paper... Yes?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When Prabhupāda first did the first public kīrtana, they said that "We thought God is dead, but now we see that Swami Bhaktivedanta has made God alive again."
Prabhupāda: This was the first remark. Then, gradually, these boys joined. They were after God, but they were given to understand that "God is dead. Now you take LSD." So the... God is speaking:
- mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
- yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
- asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
- yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
- (BG 7.1)
"Take perfect knowledge of God from Me." Why don't you do that? Boliye. What is the reason? Boliye, Swamiji. When God is speaking that "You take from Me perfect and complete knowledge of God," so why don't you take it?
Indian man (1): We are still attached to material side.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like as we're talking, we're a little... Sometimes it's difficult to understand the Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: But I take it simply—that there is ocean, and it was churned. So there is no difficulty.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Mostly we have understood. Only in one place we are a little...
Prabhupāda: But nobody has seen that ocean. And nobody can believe that ocean can be churned. Would you believe it? Because it is. And the Vāsuki was taken as rope.
Bhakti-prema: And this Mandara mountain, fifty thousand miles high, was taken there, carried by.
Prabhupāda: And it was born by tortoise incarnation.
Bhakti-prema: This is combined with description.
Prabhupāda: Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. What is beyond your conception, don't try to. So that is Vedic civilization. They were satisfied with information received from the Vedas.
Bhakti-prema: The first and last thing we have to prove logically that this is...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Logically you cannot. Acintya. Logic comes when it is conceivable; but it is inconceivable. Where is your logic?
Bhakti-prema: But first to prove them right understanding we have to bring them.
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. Acintya.
| Page Title: | Rope (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 11 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=35, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 35 |