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Religious (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"religious" |"religiously" |"religiousness"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: religious* not "religious system*" not "religious principle*" not "religious life"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: She had a very religious background.

Prabhupāda: Women are generally...

Dr. Patel: They're more religious, yes. My children... My son does not eat, I told you the other day, even tomatoes. He's going to States for a fellowship, and I don't know what he'll do there.

Prabhupāda: No. If you don't like to eat tomato, who is going to force? That is not... (break)

Dr. Patel: Hindu, that is wrong nomenclature. There is no Hindu dharma. It is a..., Hindu is a way of life. Even Muslims live the same way, even Christians live the same way. The sanātana-dharma is the real word. Just use it and then everyone says. I heard it in a letter to American consul about this matter. In there I mentioned sanātana-dharma. I have said sanātana-dharma, not Hindu dharma. I have mentioned like that. Real (indistinct) is the Vedic religion.

Prabhupāda: Because the religion actually means the law given by God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion is not manufactured.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is actually a religious conference. All the different groups, they gather in that holy place, and they propagate their philosophy, discussion, like that. India is country of religion. They know how spiritual life more important than this material life. That is India. Now they are diverting their attention to the material; otherwise whole India, they are for spiritual life. They don't care for material ... This material life is brought from Western countries, these railways, these..., so many things, bridges and so on, so on.

Hari-śauri: Factories.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In this old age-eighty-one years I am—I am working day and night just to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and...

CID Chief: This is absolutely a service to God and humanity. Whatever tendency you have... Whatever comes out of your mouth, word, becomes a religious... It is written, out of which you write books. Out of the produce... From the proceeds of that book, you constructed a... It is wholeheartedly towards the God. Whole life is devoted to God.

Prabhupāda: And for these books, as author, if I would have taken royalty, my daily income would have been one lakh, fifty thousand. I don't take a single farthing. Whatever two cāpāṭis they give, that's all.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There also... Here. Here people are suspecting that I am getting money from CIA, and they are also suspecting that I am cheating people and getting money.

CID Chief: Yeah, but do they have any prohibition about these religious discourses?

Prabhupāda: No, not... Prohibition has yet come. But individual cases, they have been instituted, and we are fighting by spending so much money to defend.

CID Chief: Yeah, but I read in some paper that somewhere they had this county courts, you know, ruling that people are disturbed by the kīrtanas and this for twenty-four hours and...

Prabhupāda: No, we have got judgment. You read those judgment, judges? We have got counterjudgements also.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now, this is from Philadelphia, Judge Alfred Longo, U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. The Philadelphia decree was typical and included the following points: "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is recognized as an authentic religion. To broadcast the glories of God to all people, members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society can perform saṅkīrtana, a missionary activity including chanting, dancing, and playing cymbals and drums, the dissemination of the word of God through preaching and reading aloud from religious literature, the distribution of religious literature, sanctified food and flowers to the public, and the solicitation and acceptance of contribution. In performing saṅkīrtana devotees can go wherever people gather: streets, libraries and other public places." So we also had decisions... Eventually we win almost all cases.

Prabhupāda: And we have got good support from the scholarly section by big, big professors. Even one priest, Mr. Cox, he is forming an association to support this movement in Harvard University. So we have got supporters also.

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nowadays you cannot be a suppressor of any particular foreigner. That is not possible.

Jagadīśa: Except the religious community.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will suffer, both of them, because this is not civilization. This is assembly of dogs. So there trouble must be there. You cannot keep the dogs peaceful. That is my final... If you keep them animals, how you can expect...?

Jagadīśa: That's not only between nation to nation.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Everywhere. If the men are kept as animals, you cannot expect them peaceful citizens. That is not possible. The fighting will go on on one plea or another. You cannot stop. (pause) Was it...? You give...? Pālikā?

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The difference between other Gītās and our Gītā... We therefore said, "As It Is." No interpretation. That is the disaster. Authority, Kṛṣṇa, and to interpret on His word, this is very disastrous.

Mr. Gupta: Lord Kṛṣṇa has been good to me right from my childhood. I was brought up in a good religious family. I have always been able to have my way. I think that's what's wrong. I get very strong desires, likes, dislikes. I have been successful, very, very successful, in material sense, in work. I want to... Doesn't leave me with peace.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is your full name?

Mr. Gupta: Rabindranath Gupta. I'm not a Bengali. I belong to Delhi. I've lived eight years in Bengal, Citra and then Durgapur.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So you can speak in Bengali.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, Western philosophy... We have learned this art, manufacturing. Just like Vinoba Bhave's has proposed, "I want mukti not in the traditional way." He'll manufacture his own way. This is his intelligence after eighty-two years or eighty-one years. "Not in the traditional, not in the religious way." Just see. He's still hovering in darkness, and he's going to get mukti. This is the position.

Trivikrama: Prabhupāda has said that the Russian intelligence and Indian culture.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Sir, I may tell you. Russians are not that intelligent. I have very poor regard for the Russian intelligence. Intelligence is not with Russians that much.

Prabhupāda: No. No, no, all Europeans, they're very intelligent.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: (reading letter) "Enclosed please find a clipping showing a press interview with California Governor Jerry Brown, who is a potential presidential candidate in the next election, asking the Hare Kṛṣṇa followers to help humanize conditions in the state mental institutes. He recognized that what is needed is for religious leaders to come in and to give these patients new life. And he recognized us as religious leaders. This is a great credit for us, and we immediately called the five biggest state institutes and got permission to visit their patients. We sent fifty devotees with gift-wrapped 'Krishnas' presents of prasāda, Bhagavad-gītās and Kṛṣṇa books, calendars, records, and so on. And all of the doctors were so appreciative that they invited us back to show movies, put on plays, and continue helping their patients."

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Aiye.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But we must have eyes to see. What they have got, position? All these, they go and come. But here it is entering into the core of the heart of the younger generation. They are becoming mad after it. One should have eyes to see. And therefore the authorities are afraid that "Younger generation, if they..." Here is one book by Professor Stillson Judah. He's a great, learned scholar. After five years study on this movement he has written this book, Hare Krishna and Counterculture. He has given his verdict that "This movement will stay." He has very thoroughly studied the statistics and meeting every member, in this way. There are many books about us, small and big. But here is a responsible master of religious studies.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

D. D. Desai: 1893. Yes, he knows these things. Turn of last century. He wrote some letters to my granduncle. Therein he has said about the immigration difficulties and other things. And then he could finally establish certain amount of respect for himself and the Indian culture. In other words, what point I am trying to make is that the world at large does not recognize the good person from a bad person. And therefore it becomes the responsibility of good person to bring at least awareness about the good person's existence, and then they follow. Now, how many people have followed Swami Vivekananda? How many people followed to start with? These things came because of his personal contact. Now, here also the same people have all praise and all respect, all things for the movement. Similarly, we have also. We came to know, and so we are in it. Now, for example, Mrs. Gandhi is highly religious, I know. Whatever others might have feeling...

Prabhupāda: I know that.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So if you think that Mrs. Gandhi is religious and is for Indian culture, why not ask her to take the guidance of Kṛṣṇa? Who can give better guidance than Kṛṣṇa?

Indian lady (2): Mahatma Gandhi took guidance... Of course, he also made lots of mistakes, but he did take guidance...

Prabhupāda: Everyone must make mistake because a conditioned soul are liable to four defects. One of them is to commit mistake. One of them is to become illusioned. One of them, he is a cheater. And one of them, his senses are imperfect. So every conditioned soul who has got this material body, he is defective in these four things. Therefore he has to take knowledge from a person who has no defects. Then his knowledge will be perfect. Just like a small child, he is defective, but he receives the knowledge from the father: "This is called pencil." A child does not know what it is, but the father says, "My dear child, it is pencil." And if he says, "It is pencil," then it is correct, although he's a child, because he has received the knowledge from the person who knows it. Similarly, our principle is—that is Vedic principle-evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2).

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You arrange, I will advise her. I am not proud, but I am the authority at the present moment. It is not pride. It is the fact! So let her take! Let her understand. The authority is there. And what is understanding? It is simple truth. Everyone can understand. Any child can understand. There is no difficulty. We make it difficult by our rascal interpretation. And that is very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). So there must be somebody, original person. You are existing, you are coming from your father. Your father coming from his father, his father, his father... Now, who is the original father? There must be somebody. You may or may not know. So here is the answer: aham ādir hi devānām. So why don't you take? Where is the difficulty? If you are finding out who is the original person and the original person is presenting Himself and He is being accepted by great authorities—formerly Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, and later on Rāmānujācārya Madhvācārya, and all big, big stalwart ācāryas, Caitanya Mahāprabhu—so why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme original authority? What is the difficulty? The fact is very plain, but I'll not take it. If I misguide myself, then who will guide me? If I sleep while I am not sleeping, then who will help me? Take Kṛṣṇa's instruction. If Indira Gandhi... I know she is intelligent, she is religious. Let her follow strictly the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Just his, all her ambition, all her programs, will be successful—if he's (she's) serious.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Seven lakhs' books in one week.

Indian (1): In one week. Wonderful thing.

Prabhupāda: Religious books selling, seven lakhs of books in a week, there is no history.

Indian (1): There is no another example.

Prabhupāda: And where we are selling? Where Christians are there. They are not Hindus, that they'll read Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata and Cai... They're all Christian, Jews, Muslims. In Muslim country we are also selling. Yes.

Indian (1): Iran, Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: Iran, Pakistan, Egypt.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Indian (1): In one week. Very wonderful thing. There is no other comparison for such a sale.

Prabhupāda: We are the number one publisher of religious, philosophical...

Indian (1): Printing and writing attractive, everything is such a nice... That man is attracted, and he goes through the books and writes... (break)

Devotee: So now in America we are slowly starting to understand by Śrīla Prabhupāda's mercy what is the real purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, real purpose of yoga. Unfortunately we are finding in India people have misunderstood Gītā. And...

Indian (1): Misunderstood Gītā. Now even they are not study. You see, there is no study at all. It is an unfortunate thing here. In our educational system, the slave system coming from British regime, still it is not changed. Unfortunately, whatever change we see, that change goes anti-religion. So the present generation is suffering.

Prabhupāda: Change means we have lost our culture.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Above your and our.

Dr. Patel: That's right. That is... All religious scriptures are above, undoubtedly.(?) It's meant for the humanity in general. And the Christianity is meant for humanity. Christ died for the humanity, not for a particular race... (break)

Prabhupāda: Woman's nature is the same everywhere. In spite of your women being so elevated, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has said, "You don't trust them." Viśvāso naiva kartavyaḥ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca. That means nature is the same.

Dr. Patel: It is a system of custom.

Prabhupāda: And Urvaśī was explaining Purūravā about woman's nature...

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So this is documentary. And the Europeans and..., they are not fools and rascals that they are interested in purchasing other religious book, not their Bible. You see? So it has got very great potency. So under the circumstances, we should now make combined effort that it can be pushed on more organizedly. I am doing now alone with the help of these... But no Indians are coming. This is the difficulty.

Guest (2): I think, with all due respect, many Indians are trying to do things in their own religious sect or in their own districts.

Prabhupāda: Nobody is doing.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Which is? About the constitution, exemption? Ah, no. No, it's not a notice as such, but they're questioning whether we deserve the tax exemption as a charitable trust. They're saying that we are not charitable; we are religious. And religious is not exempt from income tax. So the question is whether we have to change our constitution to fit their idea or whether to establish a separate trust or whether to defend that our present...

Prabhupāda: First thing is that we have not received any official notice.

Girirāja: No.

Prabhupāda: So why you are bothering about that?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Huge quantity selling. Either Kṛṣṇa's desire... It is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Otherwise a religious book which is not their religion, Bhāgavatam, Indian. So somehow or other it is being distributed, and they say it is spreading like...

Girirāja: Epidemic.

Prabhupāda: Epidemic. So it is a kind of revolution.

Hari-śauri: And it's not just in one place. It's every country our men have been to.

Prabhupāda: Every country. Whole Europe and America. What business they have got to purchase our books in Christmas? They have no business. Why they are purchasing? Huge quantity. I never dreamed even (laughs) that my books would be sold in large quantity.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They're admitting. That's good.

Rāmeśvara: "...and they are way ahead of those on our side who believe that it is not a religious issue. Sun Yung Moon"—this is that Reverend Moon—"has been largely exposed in the Press. But not the Kṛṣṇas."

Trivikrama: Haribol.

Prabhupāda: So the more they expose, the more implicated. (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: "Most people think of them, if at all, as loving, peaceful, prayerful children with strange customs and dress but low-key action and behavior."

Prabhupāda: What is that behavior, low...? Lowky?

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So nowhere they have mentioned my name. That is good. (laughter) Otherwise, I would have been the target. That was very dangerous.

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes... One of the general charges they make against all the different religious groups in America is that the leader is actually making a lot of profit for himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Like this Reverend Moon, he lives in a very, very big house, and he has a big car. And this Guru Maharaj-ji, he has his own airplane.

Prabhupāda: Guru Maharaj-ji has got?

Rāmeśvara: He had his own airplane, which they had to sell.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: One of their big charges is that when we go out and distribute our books we are very aggressive, and therefore it is a sign that we are not actually religious.

Prabhupāda: Every salesman must be aggressive. That is a qualification.

Rāmeśvara: They say we are interfering with the right of the person. He doesn't want to speak to us, but we insist that he speak to us.

Prabhupāda: That is salesman's qualification. Nobody is dying for our book, but if we can create market for our book, that is our qualification.

Rāmeśvara: So then they will say, "Then that means you are not a religion. You're simply a business."

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. From business side... Religion means we are expert in every way. We can cheat also very nicely, which you cannot do. That is religion, expert in everything. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. And Kṛṣṇa says that "Amongst the cheaters, I am the greatest cheat."

Haṁsadūta: They think religious people should be fools.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but our religion is not that. The most intelligent man can be religious.

Haṁsadūta: They should be fools, and they should be poor. And we are neither fools nor poor.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: They have learned this. They have been accustomed... And by nature they are not, I mean to say, dovetailed to this system of life.

Hari-śauri: Somehow or another, they just can't do it. They can't live like that.

Prabhupāda: And now we are going to Kumbha Mela, a religious assemble. In the Western countries you don't find so much.

Rāmeśvara: No. In the 1960's in America they tried to have such assemblies, but they simply were becoming naked and having drugs—LSD, marijuana—in the name of spiritual festival. I remember very prominent festivals in America, but everyone was simply naked. They thought that was spiritual.

Prabhupāda: Naked? Fully naked?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: Hare Kṛṣṇa. They're just waiting now. They are waiting for something to happen.

Hari-śauri: All these religious, what they call the religious cults, came immediately after the hippies. That's the big thing now. There was the growth period for those. Now they're trying to destroy them. Of course, they won't destroy us, but they've succeeded in one or two other groups. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...below one person.(?) In the name of religious men, because they are not civilized even, it is further, further. This is going on. Actually there was no such...

Rāmeśvara: And another thing that came out of the hippie movement is this abortion. Because the whole thing... The slogan was "free sex." So now they have free sex.

Hari-śauri: Women's liberation was another thing.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that "You require to..., your brain to be washed. Then you'll understand the value of this. So let us treat you. Come here. You are a good candidate."

Rāmeśvara: So far, the movies that Yadubara has made, the colleges will not use them in their religion classes so much because they are... They seem to be just religious propaganda for Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. So if this movie is made in a more scholarly way, the field is very good. They will use it in every college class all over the country.

Prabhupāda: Which movie?

Rāmeśvara: The one I'm thinking of having Yadubara make, shooting in India professors' and scientists' testimony plus Vaiṣṇava festivals and Vaiṣṇava temples.

Prabhupāda: No, that... And you'll see Tirupati, how they are standing for hours together.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Artistic.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, it'll show the higher religious culture of India. That will impress many people in America. They think of India as so backwards, but they'll see that they have these beautiful temples.

Prabhupāda: So that is due to British propaganda. British propaganda was that they were staying in India to make India civilized.

Rāmeśvara: Their big propaganda is that "India is so poor and they are so stupid, they are giving all their money to the temple, so they are remaining poor, so what is the use of this religion?" That was the propaganda, that "Religion is the opiate of the people."

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: So actually we're getting all this free exposure on radio and on television. And each time we come off sounding very intelligent, very religious, very nice, and they come off sounding like fanatics and bigots. So people are getting a good impression of us because of the publicity on radio and television.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Sītā was put into the fire and she came out unburned. Sītā was blasphemed, that "This woman was kidnapped by Rāvaṇa, and Rāmacandra is so henpecked that He has again picked up her and living with her." So Rāmacandra put him (her) in the fire and she came unharmed.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Actually there is a new movie in America which shows that Jesus was not even religious. He was a political revolutionary trying to overthrow the Roman government, and his followers created the myth. And this is becoming a popular idea.

Hari-śauri: That is another concoction too.

Gargamuni: Nobody knows, because there's no disciplic ācārya.

Rāmeśvara: The real point of that movie is there's no way to know anymore. Any theory now can be presented.

Hari-śauri: But at least if you look at what's there, in most of the Bibles anyway, the beginnings of Christ's movement are just like our own movement. All these men gave up all their material possessions. They went out and preached. And that was his general teaching too, that they should not worry for anything because God is supplying to everyone, even the birds and beasts. So why should they worry? Just go out and preach. That was his basic teaching to his twelve apostles.

Prabhupāda: That is faithfulness in God. Why a preacher should be bothered about maintaining himself?

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But this Maharishi, he is capturing American money but he is not using it to spread Indian culture.

Prabhupāda: Religious...(?)

Rāmeśvara: You are the only one who is using that formula, "American wealth, Indian culture."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: This Maharishi is using "American wealth, Maharishi culture." He's not doing anything valuable with his money.

Hari-śauri: He's increasing his own name and fame.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: A very beautiful city, they said. And they sold books to at least one dozen book stores. They took Bhagavad-gītās. They did very well in Assam. In ten days they did twenty-six standing orders in three cities, Gauhati, Shillong and then Siliguri in northern Bengal.

Prabhupāda: This is very much astonishing that they do not touch religious book, but our books secure. (laughs)

Gargamuni: Yes. Yes. They have no budget to purchase religious books. They only want technical books. But when they see our books, they cannot say no. That has been the response.

Hari-śauri: Spiritual potency.

Prabhupāda: Technical books... (chuckles) Now that, my nephew Govinda, he's a watch repair.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: In libraries they have no budget for religious books. They only want technical books.

Rāmeśvara: They're not interested in religion.

Gargamuni: But because our books are printed so nicely and coming from America, and they are seeing the foreign sādhus, oh, they become so, "Oh, yes, we must take." But actually they have no budget for any religious books.

Prabhupāda: That is good. The so-called religious books, they're presenting—all bogus hodge-podge. (laughter) Humbug imagination, that's all. There is no fact. Just like Ramakrishna Mission. What religion they have got? Anyone? This religion, that religion, Jainism, Sikhism, this "ism," no nothing. Simply bogus propaganda.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: All the libraries, they say, "We have too many religious books, too much religion."

Rāmeśvara: And the government is so much afraid of offending one religion, so they have become secular. But there only is one religion. There is only one religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One religion, this is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), to become surrendered to God. That is religion. And they're useless. That is our religion. We are teaching surrender to God, but they have no idea that there is God. They have forgotten that "There is God, and He can talk with me. I can talk with Him." They cannot believe all these things. "Even if God is there, He cannot talk. He has no mouth, He has no leg. Nirākāra, impersonal." This is their position.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see. God has to be created by public survey. Just see how degraded.

Rāmeśvara: But anyway, these surveys show that religious sentiment in America is increasing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is proof. You are the proof. There is no doubt. They are intelligent. Intelligent and there is no poverty. In other countries, on account of poverty, they are thinking, "First of all we must be materially prosperous. Then we shall think all this nonsense God." This is then... This propaganda is going on, "What you'll, can do by God. First of all we must have sufficient to eat, sufficient to drink." And this is their philosophy. How they can...? There is a Sanskrit verse that daridra-doṣo guṇa-rāśi-nāśaḥ: "If somebody is poverty-stricken, all other qualities become useless." And nowadays the education is for money. One has passed D.H.C., Ph.D., but if he does not get an employment, then what is the value? He's begging from here: "Sir, will you give me some service?" That's all.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: So this is a study published in Los Angeles Times on January 2nd. It says, "The year 1976 could mark the beginning of a new religious revival in America, judging from recent Gallop surveys of public opinion. The surveys found: 1) For the first time in nearly twenty years there was an increase in church attendance"—first time in twenty years—"with 42% of all adults in America attending church or synogogue in any typical week." Once a week 42% of the adult population, almost half. "2) The proportion of Americans who believe that religion is increasing its influence on American life has tripled since 1970." In other words the public thinks that religion is now influencing American life. The number of people who think like that has gone up.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is due to this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: "To estimate the average church attendance in 1976, surveys..." Oh, this just tells you how they took the survey. "So analysis of these figures shows that church attendance is up among all major population groups. The Catholics are better attendees than the Protestants. Women go more often than men." Women go more often than men in America. "Southerners and the Mid-Western"—from the South and the Mid-West—"they attend more frequently than they do in the East, and far more than those living in the West." So this says that people in the West, like California, they're the least religious. People in the East, like New York and Pennsylvania, they're a little more religious, and people in the Mid-West and the South, they're the most religious according to this survey. "Those who are under thirty years of age are less likely to go to church than those who are thirty and over." Younger people... Same trend, giving up...

Prabhupāda: They come to us.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They come to us. "Whites and nonwhites attend with equal frequency." Not that the white people are more religious; black people are less. "People with a college background are more likely to go to church regularly than those who never went to college, but people who never went..." In other words, they're saying if you went to high school but you did not go to college, the chances are you will not go to church as much as if you went to college. But if people went to grade school and then they left without going to high school or without going to college... That means they left at, say, fifteen years old. Then they have the best chance for going to church. That means the less education you are given in America, the more religious.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, no. According to Vedic system, everything is so... When the woman is pregnant there are so many ceremonies. When we were children, and I was in the middle, I saw my other, two, three brothers and sisters born. So there was some ceremony. We were eating with mother in that ceremony. That ceremony was because my mother was pregnant. Sad-bhakṣā. Sad-bhakṣā. There are ten kinds of ceremonies, before the birth and after the birth, daśa-vidha-saṁskāra. So many religious ceremonies my mother was observing, and all the expenditure my father was giving. Every month, two, three ceremonies, very nice ceremonies. We were children; we were eating. So we...

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: As they are reading our literatures.

Hari-śauri: As Kṛṣṇa consciousness spreads... Just like we see these different things happening in the world that are coming nearer to a religious way of life or a spiritual understanding, even though that may not be directly connected with our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, still, is that the cause, because there's an auspicious atmosphere that people are...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...able to come nearer to that spiritual goal?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is going on. That purifies.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They simply..., a official church and temple, and they have no serious attachment, simply kaitava. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). That is another kind of cheating. He's not religious, but he's posing himself: "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." That's all. He does not know what is religion. This is going on. Religion means direct touch with God. That is religion. So they have no idea of God. How there can be religion? Here is religion. We do not do anything which is not in interest of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...kicked out. They have no religion, simply bogus. There is no religion in the world at the present time. All bogus.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's all. They say, "Sex religion. Religious perfection through sex." That is their idea. That Rajneesh is doing that. Rajneesh?

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Satsvarūpa: Oh, yeah.

Prabhupāda: And Freud also.

Hari-śauri: All of them.

Prabhupāda: Hā hanta hā hanta viṣa-bhakṣana... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said this sex is the more dangerous than drinking poison for person who are going to advance in spiritual understanding. And they are talking—"Sex is the way of perfection." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, hā hanta hā hanta viṣa-bhakṣana apy asādhu. If one takes poison, that is criminal. So this sex indulgence in devotional life is more dangerous than poison-taking, criminality. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... But the sahajiyās, they are taking that through sex their life... What Gosvāmī? Jayadeva Gosvāmī, Candidāsa. Jayadeva Gosvāmī, Candidāsa, they read, and they say, "Oh, through sex one can achieve the highest." They publicly say in Vṛndāvana. "I am Kṛṣṇa, and parakīya rasa. You have to select one woman who is not your wife, kept wife, parakīya."

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: American government can finance to any point. The present president is religious temperament, so why not arrange a meeting with him?

Gargamuni: Yes.

Hari-śauri: And his wife is very inclined towards India.

Prabhupāda: His wife.

Hari-śauri: Yes. She worked here for several years.

Prabhupāda: No, no, his mother.

Hari-śauri: I think it was his wife.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They are dogmatic teachings.

Satsvarūpa: So they take us like that too, another religious explanation.

Prabhupāda: No. Our religion is not faith. It is science. That is the fault. Fanaticism of Christianism, Muhammadanism, has created this godlessness. But Vedic knowledge is not that. It is really knowledge.

Satsvarūpa: And in the beginning, when science began, modern science, the scientists would say something against the Bible that was different than the Bible. Then they would torture him. The church would torture him, this Galileo, big scien... So they point these things out, that the church is not tolerant.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, no, government means who is controlling the activities of the citizens. That's all. That is everywhere the same. There may be little difference in the formula, but the principle is the same, that there is a controller and citizens following that controlling rules. Then it is good government. So similarly, the supreme government—there is God, and He has His rules and regulations—if you follow, then you are religious. And God cannot be two. God is one. Otherwise how He is God? If God has competition, then He's not God. (chuckles)

Guest (2): Yes. (chuckling) Except for Kṛṣṇa, no other order is told even. What śāstra says...

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Yes, what it says in the... You read the books. You'll see that we are exactly.

Gargamuni: We're selling our book. We have every right to sell religious book.

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And they're being accepted by higher circle.

Gurukṛpā: Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurukṛpā: We're just saying the same thing. He says more than buy a book.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: It is authorized from the Hindu religious point of view, and it is accepted by the world scholars. So they cannot deny. It is authorized, no, authorized; I can give any statement, and it is up to you to consider. But you have to consider whatever statement. And actually that is done. You have accused me that I have stolen your watch. This is your charge against me. First of all I say, "Oh, this is false charge. I never did it." Now you have to prove that I did it. Naturally this is done. Whatever charges you..., "I've never... I don't accept these charges." Otherwise where there is case? If you charge me with something and if I immediately accept, then where is the case? My statement will be "No, no, I never did so." Now you have to prove that "Yes, I did." That takes time. It is not so easy. You have to give witnesses. You have to give so many things that "Yes, I stole it." But my duty will be: as soon as you charge me, I will say, "No, I never did it." So whatever statement I give, you have to..., the judge has to accept and then scrutinize who is correct. The complainant is correct or the defendant is correct? That is his business.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Apart from that, you defend your position like this.

Hari-śauri: It's actually a religious issue, but they're trying to make it out something else to distract because they can't defeat us on a religious point.

Prabhupāda: No. Our religion is not faith, our religion. It is on science. So we have got more defense. We don't accept such religion—"Two plus two equal to five." It is science—"Two plus two equal to four." It cannot be three, cannot be five. This is our religion.

Satsvarūpa: Since most of our presentation is done by lawyer, how can this practically be brought about that he introduces the books as our main defense? How can he present the books, a lawyer, if there's not a preacher?

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be punished. That is the duty of the king. You follow any bona fide religion; you get all protection. But you don't follow; you must be chastised. That is king's duty. A king has no objection whether you are following Christian method or Hindu method. It doesn't matter. But you must have some religion. If you have no religion, then you are animal. You must be chastised. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Religion means you believe in God and love Him. That's all, three words, religion. "You believe in God" means know God, what is God. And love Him. That's all. This is religion. So it doesn't matter whether you understand God through Christian method or Hindu method. But you love God and you abide by the orders of God. Then you are religious. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means, religion means, the words of God. So you must know what is God, and you must know what does He say. Then you are religious.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's right. Then learn it from me. Otherwise, if you refuse, then you must be punished. That is my duty.

Hari-śauri: You were just saying that a person who's not religious, he's no better than an animal, but he might argue that even the animals have a right to live undisturbed.

Prabhupāda: No, animal... Right to live with animal is subjected to be punished, just to live rightly. Suppose a cow comes with his horn like that. He must be punished immediately, the atrocity.(?) Then he'll be corrected.

Hari-śauri: But there are so many animals living in the jungle who don't...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. No, jungle, we have no business to go there. We have rejected jungle. Let them live there. But in the human society, if the animal disturbs, it must be punished—with stick.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: ...surprised. No, no, they were not so surprised. They were wondering how can I wear such a dress. So, but the difficulty is they immediately associate with the idea that I was a religious man, being in such a dress.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, in Muhammadan country also, there is dress like this. They are called peet.(?)

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. They have these big robes. When they go to the mosque, they put on the robes. In Cairo there is ten thousand mosques. It's incredible. Ten thousand mosques.

Prabhupāda: They're religious.

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Marwaris are little religious. They...

Gargamuni: They never talk about Vivekananda. They don't like him.

Prabhupāda: He was rascal number one. He brought three women with whom he had intimate connection. That is very easy to make intimate connection with woman in America. With money also. He brought. And with their money. Aurobindo also, the same thing. With woman's money they became rich, not like me, with hard labor of writing books and selling. I could also do. There was chance. But this is not my business to make intimate relation with woman and get money. I could do. There was chance. When attempt was failed, the man who introduced that woman to me, he one day said, "I have seen many swamis, but none like you." (laughter)

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, they are not open-minded. They have to be pushed within the water. (laughs)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's our first remark, "Please let's be open-minded. We are not dogmatic. We're not presenting something religious, fanatic. But let's discuss in open platform, see which one is..."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our argument. Just like this plant is coming out of the womb of mother. Everything comes from the mother. So there must be father. Anything you see, it is coming from earth. Earth is the mother. Dhenu-dhātrī. So where is the father? "I cannot see." You cannot see? That does not mean there is no father. There must be father. And the father says, "Yes!" Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). The answer is there.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Europe has a big history of...

Prabhupāda: Fighting.

Hari-śauri: Religious fighting.

Prabhupāda: Crusade? Crusade?

Hari-śauri: Yes. The Crusades were against the Arabs, though.

Prabhupāda: That was a religious fight.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Christians against the Mohammedans. That article of Gurudāsa's was very nice.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: "Indian Brain Research Association, Department of Biochemistry, University of Calcutta. Gentlemen: The Hare Kṛṣṇa kīrtana mantra used in meditation or chanting of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa has been practiced not only by the Vaiṣṇavas of India, but by most of the Hindus as a regular religious and social practice in Hindu families. Millions of Hindus practice with sublime devotion the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. We are not aware of any case where such practice has resulted in any detrimental effect to the health or mind of anyone. We can submit that the worshiping of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, as being practiced in West Bengal, India, does not differ from that of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. And as such, either of them cannot do any harm to the devotee or to the observer. Further we can add that the rhythmic dance and musical (Bengali:) svara in Hare Kṛṣṇa kīrtana mantra may have profound beneficial effect on a distorted human mind. These practices do not have any relation with brainwashing, although the word seems to carry no scientific meaning at all. Statement by Professor Ajit K. Mytee. Yours faithfully, J.J. Ghosh, President on behalf of the Indian Brain Research Association."

Prabhupāda: It is good certificate. And University of Calcutta. So you publish this.

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda sent letters to Rāmeśvara and Ādi-keśava to put it in the newspaper.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādi-keśa is here in India.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. Here also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some mention in the Bhāgavatam about this, that the religious men will wear only the clothes to make a profit? That people will wear religious clothing simply for making profit? Now religion is a good business. They take it like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good business.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They exploit the sentiment.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: They're saying now that psychological freedom is more important in the law than religious freedom.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, if the law helps to kidnap, then what you can do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that just now there was a meeting of the five hundred leading rabbis of the Jewish faith in favor of deprogramming, because they're very alarmed that the young men and women of the synagogues are joining our movement and other type of movements and leaving their so-called past religion. So the rabbis are going to take up... They like this deprogramming. They like this kidnapping. And he says also that just now in Newsweek magazine there's been a big article printed in favor of deprogramming, special article about this Tucson, Arizona, deprogramming center. So he says that he expects more and more of this deprogramming. He's a little bit alarmed because all of our leaders will be here in India now for the next few weeks.

Ādi-keśava: Turn the fan off...

Prabhupāda: The light, not the fan.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: "Two and one-quarter million copies in print." They can understand that millions of people are studying this. And at the bottom of the back cover there is a review by a scholar, a professor of Humanities, Religious Studies and South Asian Studies at the University of Minnesota, which is one of the largest schools in America, Dr. Robert Tap. He says, "Kṛṣṇa has been too transforming a figure for too many people to remain confined to India or to be known only through the Bhagavad-gītā. Here we have the rounding out of His story that has proven so fruitful for Indian art, song, dance, and devotion." "...the rounding out of His story."

Rādhā-vallabha: Perfection of Yoga also has the printing quantity on the cover, "Over 2,300,000 copies in print."

Rāmeśvara: Gorgeous! Look at those pictures of Prabhupāda!

Rādhā-vallabha: We also calculated how many hardbound Bhāgavatams are in print. That's one million. And there's almost three million Gītās in print too.

Prabhupāda: So this should be displayed here.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You can... If you want to increase picture, you can take important words... Just like the verse nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt: "One who has no more material hankering..." Paint it in picture. Nivṛtta-tarṣaiḥ, no more hankering for anything material. And there is word, dharma-śīla, "religious." What is that religion? One who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is religious. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). He is religious. Ordinary religious, they are not religious. In this way you depict one picture, one word. This can be...

Brahmānanda: Is that the first chapter?

Prabhupāda: Paśu-ghna. Paśu-ghna, the animal-killer.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Mind cannot be idle. That is also foolishness.

Guest (1): Even if you go for religious sevā, that you go for some benefit, not otherwise, either for yourself or for the world.

Prabhupāda: But we must know what benefit is essential. Therefore I am trying to explain that there is body and there is the owner of the body. So which is important? There is this dress and the owner of the dress. If you simply take care of the dress and do not take care of the owner of the dress, do you think that is very good intelligence?

Guest (1): Sir, taking care of the society, of the countries, there is no difference?(?)

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

Karttikeya Mahadevia: In one week sixty-four lakhs of people came all over Gujarat to Ahmedabad.

Prabhupāda: Kumbha...

Guest (1): People are so much religious.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Guest (1): That she is wrong, that is a different matter. If they can organize this way, we'll get more than one crore.

Prabhupāda: What is the position of Jagajīvana now?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are going to have two Deputy Prime Ministers. But I do not think Morarji Desai will stay Prime Minister for more than one or two years, because he's eighty-one years of age.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Make them come, make them come. Treat them nicely. Give them good place. In this way increase the number of workers. Then people will, "Oh... They are not religious sentiments. They have got books, they have got scientists, they have got doctors." Is it not? And we can challenge them. "Come on, what is our education, let us test. We are prepared to talk with you like scientists." So you are all here now and... Organize in Bombay. Bombay, the center of Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A few students came day before yesterday from Bombay University.

Prabhupāda: Let them come.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No.

Girirāja: They keep the money in black.

Śrīdhara: Oh, in black money.

Prabhupāda: And religiously-minded.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I find almost everybody appreciates Śrīla Prabhupāda so much, especially in Bombay. Anybody who knows about Śrīla Prabhupāda, they highly appreciate, especially these scholars. But in Delhi it is very different. People are very close-minded.

Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If these men will give a little bit of aural reception, then they can get their misgivings, misunderstandings cleared away by speaking with you. But they will have to be ready to hear submissively and they have to be intelligent. Before I ever came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I would have always understood that religion meant sectarian. That is a common idea. Someone sees a sādhu or religious person, they immediately take it this is unscientific and sectarian. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...right?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I wasn't clear about that, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: This is Mattrey's?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mrs. Mattrey? I can find out.

Prabhupāda: All right. (end)

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, by this Congress. Their opinion is that India is too much religious; they spoiled.

Dr. Sharma: Yes. Also I just happened to do a survey in South about the party brāhmaṇas who were having the...

Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇas, they, from your Rajasthan, the other day, I got before. Twenty thousand brāhmaṇas have come here in Bombay to serve as tea-walla.

Dr. Sharma: Tea-walla. That is correct.

Prabhupāda: So who is caring for the... Because there is no maintenance, there is no education, so how the brāhmaṇas are being maintained?

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation)

Dr. Sharma: Actually, we never had the geographical conception of the nation. Only conception was the religious conception. Wherever Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, that is India. That has been the concept through all the centuries, until 1947, you know, and then we had these boundaries. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa is worshiped in north, He is worshiped in south, He is worshiped in east, He is worshiped in west, and there are temples marking that plain. And that's what we call India. And that has been throughout the centuries. Not the geographical boundaries they have given now to India. Really you can make out the definition of India, where Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, that is India. And that can be anywhere now, including worship in the United States or in Canada. Because He was the man, He was our Lord, He came here. He gave us the religion, He gave us the life, He gave us this... So now these politicians are taking that concept away, and they are changing the consciousness of the whole nation now. They want to change the consciousness. They want to make them materialistic. They want to make them greedy. They want to...

Prabhupāda: And what materialistic advancement they have done?

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Naśa means devastated, finished. Apakṣaya-naśa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "In your introduction to the Bhagavad-gītā you refer to Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianism and other religious faiths as sectarian designations, but isn't Kṛṣṇa consciousness just another kind of designation in order not to call it Kṛṣṇa-ism, another ism?"

Prabhupāda: No. That you have to understand later on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "What is the difference between a pure Christian, or at least a sincere one, and a sincere devotee of Kṛṣṇa?"

Prabhupāda: No difference.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All nonsense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is why we rejected our so-called religious heritage. We could see that there was no substance to it. And the leaders were just like normal debauchees of any other groups. They weren't spiritual. I used to remember seeing the priests and the rabbis getting drunk, smoking cigarettes, talking nonsense just like everybody else. There was no difference except for the dress.

Prabhupāda: This is everywhere. In India also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Girirāja, did you get those passbooks by any chance?

Morning Talk -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So will the state allow that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they shouldn't, because then it is not religion. Genuine...

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is religion or no religion. Suppose there is university, and if some religious sect says that "In our religion we shall not take university education."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We shall not take any education from the university?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So will the government accept?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In United States there is a group in Pennsylvania, and they say that they will not undergo any kind of normal education, because it is polluted, and they have their own education, and they are permitted. Even from six, seven years old, from first grade. They are called the Amish people. (some noise in background) That's not a door, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That's heavy dropping of heavy items.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Read that whole thing.

Bhakti-caru: "As the nation observes this week the death anniversary of Dr. Amritsar, it behooves our news research to face a challenge 'for the plight of this downtrodden community.' " (break) "The story of the vast quantity of harijana in this ancient and illustrious land is a miserable story of shame and sorrow. Harassment and humiliation, operation and separation, poverty and pity. The harijana problems is not merely a social or religious or economic or political one. It is a complex problem involving many factors. It is, however, the most baffling national problem, posing a great challenge to the leaders, rulers and people of India."

Prabhupāda: On the whole—you read this article—why not say that "We can lead you to the highest perfection of cultural, social, religion." It will be...

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now so many charges are coming against her. (pause) Hm? She and her son are the destiny of India? A woman and a debauch? They can do whatever they like. It's a farce condition. That so-called democracy is nonsense demoncracy. And by this demoncracy, it can be done. A demon may be, if he can simply secure votes. What is the position? Without any training Formerly the destiny was by rājarṣi. Royal power, but ṛṣi, saintly person. See the character of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Parīkṣit, Ambarīṣa. (aside:) At least, you cover some way or other with some cloth. Find out some cloth or towel, and cover it. Yes. All rogues, they are political leaders. Political leader means rogue. Nowadays, these... Here is so-called religious leader, Sai Baba, another rogue. This is Kali-yuga. (Hindi) There is no good man politician. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Sumanda-matayaḥ. They have got a conception which is very, very bad, conception of religion, social, political. All condemned.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But I have no co-operation of the authorities. That is most regrettable. So now there is change of government.

Mr. Rajda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And Morarji is very religious person.

Mr. Rajda: Yes, he is a highly religious man.

Prabhupāda: So why not attempt? At least keep an ideal institution. Just like for technical knowledge, if there is a good medical college any part of the world, people go there without any consideration of nationality or anything. Similarly let there be an ideal institution in India so that the whole world will come in there.

Mr. Rajda: We had those universities, Taka(?), Silandar(?), and Narandhara...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So he... He's a devotee of Bhagavad-gītā, and there are many others. So why this teaching should not be given to the whole world?

Mr. Rajda: Now, sir, daily he gets up at 3.30 a.m., does first of all his religious things, reading of Bhagavad-gītā and all this. And that goes on for two, three hours. Then, at seven, he comes out of his room after taking his bath. Then he meets particular...

Prabhupāda: And these foreign boys, they begin their, this Bhagavad-gītā practice from 3.30 to 9.30. They have no other business. You see. You have studied our, this Girirāja. The whole day he's doing. They're all on this. From morning, 3.30, till they are tired, 9.30, simply Bhagavad-gītā.

Mr. Rajda: Wonderful.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Simply fighting. They are not peaceful. That's all. Where is peace? You'll be surprised. During gas scarcity the gas was being supplied in Honolulu. This was in our presence. So the gas supply, whatever they had, distributed, and they had one sign board, "No more gas." So next man was so angry that he shot him dead. Just see. He had no more gas; he cannot supply. He became so much infuriated that he shot him dead. This is the result of this modern motorcar civilization. He thought that "Gas will not be supplied. Then I am gone. I am finished. So kill this man." This is education. (Hindi) Provided we train at least some ideal men, everything can be done. Everything is there. There is no scarcity of knowledge in India. We have to simply take it and practically apply it, bas. (Hindi) We are not sentimental (laughs) religious group. Everything practical. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not like that, sentiment. Everything scientific, practical, for the good of the whole human society. Therefore I require that this must be pushed on for the whole human society, and naturally India also. (aside:) The prasādam arrangement is...? You give each item, one each... No, no, give me, give me, give... This is... Each item, you give one. I have got this ambition that Indian culture should be spread, and otherwise what can I do wherever...?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Government.

Indian (1): ...the team, he is an intensely religious-minded man.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Indian (1): Delivering Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian (1): Practicing the principle of Bhagavad-gītā. So to him we can appeal.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian (1): And it will, appeal go straight home.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is no honesty all over the world. It is a forgotten. "These are primitive," they say, "Now, the honesty, to become pious, to become religious. These are simply primitive idea." We have to open this. That is a specific subject matter of that... But we have to write very nicely. Everything is based on tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The rascals also argue that... The materialists argue that we're being cheated.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The materialists' argument is that we are being cheated by being promised something imaginary.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but they are cheating. That is a fact. How we have learnt it, that is another thing. But you are cheating. That's fact.

Devotee (4): Just like this President Carter, though, he's supposed to be a religious man and bringing so-called honesty into government, compared to the others.

Prabhupāda: That, everyone says.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And this, these space flight cheatings, this is for the purpose of giving a few men more tax money or fame. That's another reason for cheating, to get fame.

Prabhupāda: I have got tendency to cheat, so people unnecessarily poses himself as very big man even by ideas that you will consider him very great man, although I am nothing. So many gurus, they are doing that. Our business that we want to speak what Kṛṣṇa has said. If Kṛṣṇa has cheated, then we are cheater. Otherwise honest. If Kṛṣṇa is honest, we are honest. If Kṛṣṇa is cheater, so our position is safe. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Other gurus, they are manufacturing how to cheat. That is the difference. We are not speaking anything new. So if Kṛṣṇa has originally cheated you, then I am cheater.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I said "Who understands this meaning of one line?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They really think that Morarji is a big religious man. They are very happy to think that their prime minister now is very, very religious. They are very pleased to think like that.

Prabhupāda: I said that my disciples rise at 3:30 and worship till 9:30. He said that he rises at 3:30 and three hours for... So I immediately said, "They are engaging twenty-four hours."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we don't engage in politics for the other nineteen hours. Of course, I mean, I never would have said anything, but the fact is that this is not the business of one who is eighty-four years old, to be the prime minister. It is better if he were to take up preaching Bhagavad-gītā. You gave that advice to Gandhi. He could do more good then.

Prabhupāda: They will take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and do their business.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh. He is in Moscow?

Dr. Sharma: No, no. He was in Hyderabad, Joint Commissioner for Religious Improvements, Mr. K. Gopalan. He asked me. He is my brother. He is my eldest brother. He has asked me to see you personally. I have been sincerely endeavoring to see you for quite some time, but I did not have the fortune to see you. Today I am lucky.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So I am also. So all these ministers, they invited me. They are in Hyderabad. I was in the house of Mr. Raju, the Endowment Minister. So they were very friendly. In Hyderabad, all the big, big government commissioners, the chief minister, they came in the opening ceremony of our temple. So it is fortunate that you were in Russia. So our humble attempt is to distribute the sublime knowledge of India. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Actually, outside India, there is no knowledge. Plainly speaking, their knowledge is as good as animals.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bhārata-bhūmi, anyone who has taken birth in Bhārata-bhūmi, especially in high family, it is the duty of every Indian to understand this sublime knowledge and distribute it to the world. Para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Because we have got this knowledge, everything. This knowledge you cannot have anywhere. Therefore scholarly people, man or elderly persons, many, they are accepting our books very nicely. In foreign countries... And Bhāgavata, it is not their religious book. We are selling... In Russia also we have got copies. What is that institution, they have ordered?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It might be named in Russian. It's the international institution which orders books.

Dr. Sharma: That is international library of the RSSR. That is... Huliyansa(?) He's the director. I have seen that letter. With their office. They asked me to translate it. I translated that letter not long ago. And I passed it on, request. So I am aware of what they are doing, and I know what they do not do also. I not only feel the heartbeat of pulse of the people of India, but I feel the pulse of the heartbeat in Communist countries as well. I am very happy that I am here after having missed the name of Lord Nārāyaṇa for six years in Soviet Union, where the people chant only Lenin's name. It is being duly compensated (indistinct). You made this possible. I have gone through ten volumes of your book that you have written. They are really...

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: No, no. Private society can do it. Private society can write a book, they can take it to the government, they can get it in its function in the embassy in Moscow, where it is to be given to some of the people there in which the cultural society exists, so-called religious or cultural or cultural society. We can approach them as well and introduce some books there.

Guest (2): And that means Indian government has to accept first.

Dr. Sharma: No, it has nothing to do with the Indian government accepting. When once we request somebody in the cultural society, and the Indian embassy governs as a function, and we deliver lecture and we invite some of the Russians, we will give it to them also.

Prabhupāda: We can send some of our scientist disciples to prove scientifically there is God. If you can arrange, I can send my scientist disciples.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Most unclean.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you think that they'll reunite.

Prabhupāda: If they want good. Separation on the religious consideration, that was the mistake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was...?

Prabhupāda: Great mistake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, there are Muslims and Hindus here, no problem, in India.

Prabhupāda: And that sentiment was fanned by the Britishers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. (pause) Last night you translated only a little bit?

Prabhupāda: Not feeling at all well.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're starting to catch on to him now, and when they do it's going to be a big scandal because he really made it into the American..., all over the world, but especially in America. He even got into the Army. They were teaching Transcendental Meditation in the Army. Even in schools... He had it in public schools. He said, "It is not at all religious. It's science, and it should be taught. Just like you teach gymnastics, you should also teach this." So if this becomes exposed, oh... It'll also hurt us indirectly, but actually it'll be good for us. But naturally they'll think that "All of these groups are now bogus." He's very much accepted in the public mind. But now the Congressional committees are investigating him.

Prabhupāda: And ours is accepted.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (5): I feel, in this country at least, the young generation, the present generation, absolutely has got no base, religious base. And...

Prabhupāda: Religious base is there. There is scriptures. But they are not being trained up.

Indian man (5): They are trained, but after some time they...

Prabhupāda: They do not like to be trained up.

Indian man (5): What will happen to this generation after ten, twenty years?

Prabhupāda: No, if the rascals—again we have to say "the rascals"—the rascal leaders mislead them, there is no hope.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)

Sita Ram Singh: Why do they not allow them to stay to serve the mission?

Prabhupāda: So we have no... We don't think anything in the...

Sita Ram Singh: Rajbhai Sampatte, he's a religious-minded man.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Sita Ram Singh: And he should make a point. But the case should be just signed. Of course, a mandate of residency(?) of your admission should also be...

Indian man (3): Could the government not do the such and such...

Prabhupāda: "Go out!" (Hindi)

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All right. Then you shall begin. Jaya. (break) Daily or alternately, (makes bleating sound:) "Myaaaḥ, myaaḥ." And there is religious process that the head should be eastern side and the throat should be cut up. And when the animal dies, bifurcate, cleanse it and the skin and everything... And they have got cāpāṭi. Government subsidizes. So they cook at home the meat, and in market they purchase a cāpāṭi according to the family, one big cāpāṭi, two cāpāṭi. That's all. Our men who has eaten that cāpāṭi, they say it is very nice, very soft and digesting. Huge deserted country, but some stock, some spots, water. There are trees. They raise the cattle there. Eighty percent of the land, all desert. Or ninety percent. No, eighty. Say seventy-five.

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, first of all go on with the picture. Let us settle that. Then...

Gargamuni: Well, we had talked with the lawyer also, and he said this was a very good idea. He said it was a good idea because if there's a deity there, then they can never take those rooms because it has some sentimental religious value.

Prabhupāda: So then do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But then a deity would... That worship has to be maintained properly.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is one thing that Prabhupāda's concerned with.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. Yes, that we have to talk about.

Prabhupāda: Then there must be regular prasāda-making and offering...

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Translation: Previously all the great sages rendered service unto the Personality of Godhead due to His existence above the three modes of material nature. They worshiped Him to become free from material conditions and thus derive the ultimate benefit. Whoever follows such great authorities is also eligible for liberation from the material world.

Purport: The purpose of performing religion is neither to profit by material gain nor to get the simple knowledge of discerning matter from spirit. The ultimate aim of religious performances is to release oneself from material bondage and regain the life of freedom in the transcendental world, where the Personality of Godhead is the Supreme Person. Laws of religion, therefore, are directly enacted by the Personality of Godhead, and except for the mahājanas, or the authorized agents of the Lord, no one knows the purpose of religion. There are twelve particular agents of the Lord who know the purpose of religion, and all of them render transcendental service unto Him. Persons who desire their own good may follow these mahājanas and thus attain the supreme benefit.

Prabhupāda: Read.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Next verse?

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, at that time they were so friendly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? They were respectful.

Prabhupāda: Muhammadans were also religious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Prabhupāda: One Muhammadan gentleman, Dinuniya, he was formerly Hindu, but when there was some famine... (break) He also made so many charitable institutions. He had a majheev(?), one etimakhānā. Etimakhānā means orphan house.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Means?

Prabhupāda: Orphan house. He was cutting throat of the chicken on the street.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not a very nice business.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is a street, Loiya Bazaar. So there is a Punjabi's shop. He makes all preparation, first-class ghee. So whenever I used to pass that area, at least fifty customers are waiting. Somebody wanting something, somebody wanting something. That gave me the impression that if you have goods genuine, customer will come. If your dealing is straightforward and the goods are nice. So, so many religious institution and missionary and other, they are all over the world. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, substantial, genuine, so why this will not be appreciated if we present properly? So I fought on that, and some way or other it is successful.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mr. Myer: Our new prime minister is now very much appreciating the movement, especially about Prabhupāda. He may like to visit. He says he does not want these foreign industries. He wants people to have religious... And he is very big sannyāsī himself. That is why he is...

Prabhupāda: Who?

Mr. Myer: Morarji Desai. He is very much in favor of the movement that we are carrying on.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Myer: Because he himself is following the four principles very nicely for fifty years.

Prabhupāda: So why does he not do? Let him do it.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is sufficient.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the worst thing you could say about them. There's a very good article he sent. I should read you this review first. The article is also very good. It says, "New religious movements considered likely to last." Now the American people are recognizing. Of course, this is a general article, not specifically about us. But they're understanding that these religions are not going to be driven away. Anyway, this review says, "When it comes to Hindu scripture, the Hare Kṛṣṇas are unabashed fundamentalists." That's a good credit. That's a very good certification, "Unabashed fundamentalists."

Prabhupāda: Unabash, or unbast?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unabashed.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Satsvarūpa, American-born personal secretary to Swami Bhaktivedanta, presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach." They don't even identify you. They know who you are. You are so well known in these literary circles now that someone says, "Swami Bhaktivedanta." They don't have to say "Founder of ISKCON." They know already from your other books. "...presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach in an articulate and highly serviceable introduction to this immense body of literature. The readings include the Īśopaniṣad, the Bhagavad-gītā and excerpts from Purāṇas, supplemented with a glossary and index. Preliminary essays detail the logic by which his group rejects both the academic experts and the rival approach of advaita-vedānta that Westerners know through the writings of Vivekananda and Radhakrishnan. This is a book long needed to balance out the monist theology that is but one aspect of Indian religious thought." In other words, this is one of the first books to present the Vaiṣṇava viewpoint, not simply the Māyāvādī viewpoint. He says, "It's well needed." That's all he's written.

Prabhupāda: Very appreciated. Very much appreciate.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, yeah. I don't want to have to make you hear the whole thing because there's not enough about us. But I can read a little bit of it to give an idea. "There are signs here and elsewhere across the country that the youth-oriented religious sects that sprang into existence a few years ago are gaining a foothold for an enduring future. The emergence of a wide assortment of spiritual movements, from Eastern religions to Jesus people..."

Prabhupāda: If we introduce this Ratha-yātrā in every city, all other religions will be finished. (laughs) Eh?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda. In San Francisco there's nothing. The only thing in San Francisco is the Chinese Parade people come for. And the next thing is Ratha-yātrā. It is bigger than the Chinese parade, the Ratha-yātrā.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Next, from the Indian Institute of Technology in Bombay. This is from Dr. Ram Kanstanari(?) Chairman of the Department, Indian Institute of Technology, Department of Humanities and Social Sciences. " 'Sir: I am pleased to make the following comments concerning your beautiful and learned publications, Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta of Gosvāmī Kṛṣṇa Kavirāja and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, both written by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. I feel that these works are the result of Swami Prabhupāda's extraordinary commitment to the bhakti cult in the Indian tradition. Swami Prabhupāda's style and language are full of the flashes of his intuition. They clearly represent his realization that love for God and for mankind should be the foundation of all interpersonal relations. Kṛṣṇa is the symbol of this love. He is the Absolute in an incarnate form. Love for Kṛṣṇa therefore sung in all forms of devotion-laden language asserts man's empathy towards His entire creation. The Central Library of the Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay, has already secured, on my recommendation, the above-mentioned works complete. These works are read by the faculty and students here, not only for their religious message but also for the unique interpretation they embody of the traditional cult of bhakti in India.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " '...should have on its shelf these works.' " Next is a letter from Trinvak Govind Meinpark(?), Professor of Sanskrit and Head of the Department at the University of Bombay. " 'His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the renowned Vedic scholar and founder-ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, has translated into English the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the Encyclopedia of Vedic Culture.' " Now it's getting to be known like that. " 'The special feature of this publication is to be seen in the explanatory notes, added with a view to summing up the purport of the passages rendered. The Bhāgavatam is a classic of the Kṛṣṇa cult, and in the manner of sweetness, sincerity of devotion and purity of emotion, it surpasses all other texts of the Purāṇas, as well as other texts of the Bhāgavata religion. As such it is no wonder that it has become a veritable scripture of the devotees of this cult. Again, of all incarnations of the highest Lord, the Kṛṣṇa incarnation has a peculiar fascination for the Indian mind and has all along exercised a great influence over the Hindu religious mind—in fact, of all minds that have God consciousness. The Lord's grace, His interest and deep concern for His devotees and even for sinners, His great love for all beings without any distinction of order, caste, creed, and sex, His ever-willingness to look after all ardent devotees, His extreme sweetness, all these qualities have made Him the most easily lovable of the divine manifestations. The text of the Bhāgavata, scenes of the whole life of the Lord from His childhood to His withdrawal from the world, yet the philosophical aspects receive greater emphasis than the historical ones.' " Not simply that it's some stories, but full of philosophy. " 'Along with the Bhāgavata, the Caitanya-caritāmṛta has received as much care and attention in the translation by Śrīla Prabhupāda. The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is presenting these two sets as an encyclopedia of our culture, and our university has made a standing order of these volumes, which our students delight in reading. There is no doubt that the Swamiji has immensely obliged all lovers of our Vedic culture and devotees of Kṛṣṇa cult by this simple, clear, faithful, and illuminating rendering into English. The notes bring out beautifully the subtle implications of the Sanskrit and Bengali text. The lay reader is thus greatly helped in appreciating and understanding the brilliant simplicity of the path of bhakti.' "

Prabhupāda: What he is?

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are Communist group. Muslims are not so bad, but the Communists... They are... Communists are creating as Hindu-Muslim or like that, religious group. He has written something about Communists?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Since the Communists took power in West Bengal, the police are caring less for religious groups." Before, the police would always give religious groups protection. Now they don't care. I mean just see, they didn't come for two hours, and then they said, "Come down and file a complaint." And when we came down, immediately arrested. This same thing happened in New York. They told Ādi-keśava Mahārāja and the other boy, Trayī dāsa, "You come down to file some statement." As soon as they came down they said, "You're under arrest." Same trick. (break) ...infirmary and they come in and they... I never heard of that.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is a different issue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They may have used that, though.

Prabhupāda: The real issue is the Communists do not want any religious movement in Bengal. That is real issue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we're the only one left. Ramakrishna Mission is not religious.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is not.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gauḍīya Maṭha is ineffective. And the Christians are not big.

Prabhupāda: This guṇḍā class, they do not like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ramakrishna also does not. They say that Caitanya had men. In Orissa also the people emasculated. In Orissa they say that since Mahārāja Pratāparudra met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he lost his kṣatriya strength. He was very powerful king, but since he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he became effeminate.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. Full of anxiety. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Because they were Kṛṣṇa conscious, there was no anxiety.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That could be the only explanation. What about the Mussulmen?

Prabhupāda: They were also happy. They were also religious, according to their own way. Within, say, seventy years so much change has taken place. Horrible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any valuable, any benefits that took place? Any good things? Only...

Prabhupāda: Change, change for the worse.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think even in America things were better.

Prabhupāda: There things are changing fast.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is not government. Just see to the head of the government, that Bose? He's planning how to cut down religious movement, keeping aside.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like a little foot massage, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No. (pause) We read from Bhāgavatam they held meeting that "We must shift from this place. The demons are disturbing. For the benefit of Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma we must change this place." So the meeting was held in the morning, and they decided, "Let us immediately leave." So...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long did it take them to shift?

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Mango is such a fruit, when it is not ripe, the green from that, up to the full ripe you can have.

Indian man (1): (Hindi conversation about mangoes) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...known as a religious man so that they can do business very exploitively. They were called by Guru Mahārāja, dharma-dhvaji.(?) Exploit (Bengali). Guru Mahārāja used to say dharma-dhvaji. "Daṇḍavat class." Yes. He knows simply to offer daṇḍavats. (laughs) Even so nice word: "Oh, he's a daṇḍavat class." My Guru Mahārāja was very humorous. He was a Calcutta bhap.(?) Therefore he liked me. All others, they came from East Bengal. I was the only disciple, Calcutta. All others...

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśomatīnandana: We invited him for Janmāṣṭamī. So he said, "If you come, I'll go." He wants me to accompany him.

Prabhupāda: He's godly man. And he's religious, honest, ideal man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You like to talk to him also, you said. You wrote...

Prabhupāda: I talk with him as my brother.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're always joking with him, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Yaśomatīnandana: Only one thing is that the government has this Agricultural Land Selling Act, which prohibits any...

Prabhupāda: Our Society...

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Please try to... Just try to understand. There is a story that a thief entered in a room, and the proprietor, he was in the other room. As soon as there was some sound, he inquired, "Who is there in that room?" The man said, "No, no, I am not stealing." You see? That means he is thief. So this voting board raised the question, "How they are getting visa?" In the Parliament also they are raising the same question. That means it is Communist manipulation, the Māyāpur affair. They put forward some Muhammadans because there are many Muhammadan Communist also. They wanted to give a communal color. But the whole thing is Communist plan. And their aim is to wipe out any religious movement. That is their open declaration in other Communist...

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Governor: In Madras I find quite a good atmosphere for this religious character.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, I know that.

Governor: That Kanjarama Śaṅkarācārya, he's doing a lot for spread of Gītā and Vedānta literature. Though he's eighty-four he's doing wonderful work. And another Śaṅkarācārya is also moving. (Hindi) (prasādam offered to guests)

Prabhupāda: This is our homemade.

Governor: And there I find many good institutions working for Vedānta, Veda. The pronunciations are also...

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So who is mentally deranged?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says we are. He says, "And they often become founders and preachers of diverse types of religious cults."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Your atomic energy, what benefit has done to the people?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A real rākṣasa. Here's Haṁsadūta's reply to him. "Reply to Dr. Kovoor's article: Before going into the main body of my article, which I..., a transcript of a lecture I delivered at Sarasvatī Hall on July 29th before an audience of approximately one thousand respectable gentry of Colombo, and where Dr. Kovoor also happened to be present and was subsequently challenged but failed to defend his position that life is generated by chance chemical combination, I would briefly like to point out the apparent defects in his article. It is not beyond Kovoor's power of observation.

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Because they... Nowadays people say "We don't want any sentiment, religious. We want science." Rascal, where is your science?

Balavanta: They have only blind faith. "Big bang," all these things. There's no evidence, no proof, simply blind faith. And but for you, no one is challenging. They would simply go unchallenged.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It said in the article that in Ceylon, this man Kovoor has been challenging and being victorious for decades, challenging everyone, "There is no God. There is no soul." But now it said for the first time someone has turned the tables on him and challenged him for the first time. He never expected such a thing.

Prabhupāda: And public applauded.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, and they are giving us some status to stay there?

Haṁsadūta: No, we have no official status. The way to function there is that you can stay for six months if you bring three dollars a day for them, and then go out, and you can come back the next day. They want to get rid of all religious groups. They want only their Buddhist group. They want to make the Buddhist religion as the state religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: At least they talk like that. And so all the religious groups there, the Christians and others, they're phasing them out by taking away their resident visas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the Tamils?

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They respect chanting. They see that your boys are pious and they're chanting the names of God and they're doing wonderful things, and they respect it. They see your books, wonderful philosophy, always glorifying God. They respect God. They're religious.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And they know that nobody else is doing this.

Prabhupāda: Persians, they are Aryans. When they were attacked by the Muhammadans they fled from Persia to India. (break)

Ātreya Ṛṣi: ...and they come regularly. Some of them come every night to take prasādam, respectful, very nice Parsis who have come back from India to Iran.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Some of them gone there.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually he was speaking in general terms. This Professor Malsanda(?), he's the head of the physiology department in the All-India Institute of Medical Sciences. He's a very religious man. He's also a very well known scholar. He's medical doctor by profession. Also he belongs to many different scientific worldwide organizations, and he feels very strongly that we should have a center in Delhi for the Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupāda: So money is required.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The guests will start coming tomorrow. Mr. Prem Kripal, who is the ex-president of the executive board, UNESCO, he's going to be our chief guest tomorrow. He's going to inaugurate the conference. He'll be arriving about five o'clock this evening. He told me he's coming with one of his friends who's also a retired architect. There's also a very well known architect who's coming with him this evening. He's going to speak on what is life and its purpose about twenty minutes. Then the other scholars will start arriving tomorrow, and Sunday everybody's coming. On Sunday there will be many medical doctors... Khorana is one of our life members, Dr. Khorana from Delhi. He's bringing several of his friends. Also I'm expecting some doctors from Agra. One... I don't recall his name, but he's also our life member. Everybody says that we have chosen the right place to have a conference. There's one Dr. Miśra, he wanted to come tomorrow. Also I actually requested him to become the chief guest, but he cannot come tomorrow, but he's coming on Sunday. And also he's speaking. So there are about five or six people from outside that are speaking on different aspects of the conference regarding life. There's one Dr. Bhud.(?) He's one of the philosophers from Delhi University. He's speaking on..., called philosophical foundations of life. He told me he studied a great deal about Rāmānuja. Also, he said, previously he studied in Bon Mahārāja's institute about ten years ago something about Vaiṣṇava philosophy. And now he's a reader in philosophy department in Delhi. He's going to speak something on the philosophical aspects of life. So we expect some good crowd from the scholars, mostly scientists from physics, from chemistry, mathematics and biology. And I found that most of them are very interested, and almost everybody wanted to come unless they had some engagement before. Everybody was very positive on our approach. In fact they encouraged us a lot, and they told us that's unique-trying to understand the concept of life from religious point of view connected with modern science. And many Bengalis are also coming.

Prabhupāda: Scholar?

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Viswas is the head of the physics department, Delhi University. He's very religious, also he's very appreciative. They already know about Śrīla Prabhupāda's activities. So there is one professor called Katak. He's the head of the department of physics at also Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi. He's coming with his father. His father is a chemist, retired. They're also... So like that, many scholars are coming. Also from Jawaharlal University, there's Dr. Mukerjee. He's head of the department of life sciences, coming.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, would you like to sit up for a while?

Hari-śauri: He was just sitting about ten minutes ago.

Prabhupāda: Where is Kīrtanānanda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtanānanda? Shall we call him?

Prabhupāda: He is busy?

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. And then our sannyāsīs look so nice. There's Akṣayānanda Mahārāja and Bhakti-prema Swami. They were both there, very nicely dressed, with daṇḍas. It's really... The whole thing is complete. They get to stay in a nice guesthouse. Then there will be building of Bhaktivedanta Institute Hall. All of these things are a complete arrangement. I think these men are surprised to see that how such a thing has sprung up, and they have not been aware of it before. And when they see these books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the scientists have written, I think that will floor these men. They will be completely amazed to see it. Normally, if anyone else dared to do such a thing as this, to prove by science that life comes from life, it would be a very immature attempt by some religious person, and it would not have very much weight. But here they are coming face to face with people who are actually scientists, and they will not be able to deny our arguments. I think that your Guru Mahārāja is very pleased with this program, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I have given the ideas. Now you give the shape.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Things are going nicely, though we didn't have too many guests today, Śrīla Prabhupāda. A little more than fifty came. Most of them will be coming tomorrow, and Sunday will be all full. 'Cause today is still Friday, and in Delhi all the schools are still open. But we came, quite a few interesting scientists from Delhi. And one had only one question. Otherwise nobody had anything. I spoke for about two hours on the difference between life and matter, and we showed that the science, modern science, actually does not study life. They only study inanimate matter, atoms and molecules. So they think that life could also be just atoms and molecules. But we showed that that is wrong, and they shouldn't propagate this false idea. Especially in India, I especially made a request to all the scholars, saying that "You should take this very seriously, and should try to expose this in genuine spirit of knowledge all over the world, because the Western science and technology, we tend to think that everything is the absolute truth because science is coming from the West, but we're saying that that is too narrow-minded. We should be a little broad-minded and we should also consider other possible alternatives." And we demonstrated that modern science actually cannot explain about the nature of life. So we requested that in the coming two days we'll establish this on a more scientific basis, that this is not just religious dogma; it is based on complete, genuine, scientific knowledge.

Prabhupāda: So where they are staying?

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If the President of India comes, then it will get front-page coverage.

Prabhupāda: Who is the President?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is the President now?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ansen Jiwar(?) Reddy. He's more religious than the previous one.

Prabhupāda: Ansen(?) Reddy, he was Home Minister? No.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that was Brahmānanda Reddy, who you met. We had a program at his house once.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When was that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: About two years ago.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where was it?

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, one thing is that in Bombay... I mean we really don't have a very attractive hall here, but in Bombay we have the most attractive air-conditioned hall of any place that has a religious temple. All of these people will want to speak in our hall. Not only these people will want to speak in our hall, but all of the nonsense theater people will want to perform there.

Prabhupāda: So we must charge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even if we charge, they're going to speak nonsense. If we don't mind speaking nonsense, then it's all right. Otherwise, just like Shubhalakshmi, she may want to give some concert in our hall as a benefit. But she's going to simply sing nonsense.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Fact, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually I don't think these men like Bajaj or any of them could possibly make this much money even in material activities, what to speak of spiritual. Spiritual, they lose money. They have to support it. But we have such a genuine religious movement that it supports itself. We don't require to construct big materialistic enterprises. We simply preach, and Kṛṣṇa supplies all the money.

Jayādvaita: Bajaj is just burdening the world with motorcycles, and you're providing the highest subject matter for hearing and chanting.

Prabhupāda: Where there is need of money, send there. I mean to say, just like Africa and other backwards... I am simply dreaming, and you are actually on the field.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are actually what?

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: In regard to the three-year visas, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa has secured that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually he did not secure it, because it's been given to all religious groups in India. Girirāja informed me. It's being given to all religious groups in India, that they can get three years. The government has passed it. It wasn't specially for us.

Jayapatākā: Hindu, Muslim?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyone. Any of these groups that have foreign people in it now will be allowed to stay. It's a general decision. It wasn't...

Jayapatākā: Not of ISKCON.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like to take rest now?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. They must be tired. They traveled all night long. The kavirāja didn't sleep at all, I heard. Is that true, Jayapatākā?

Jayapatākā: Yes. The flight was three hours delayed. Three hours he was sitting, and he didn't leave Calcutta... 8:00 flight left at 10:30, 11:00, and arrived in Delhi 1:00. Then it took to 5:00 to get here, so he's quite tired.

Prabhupāda: It did not start on time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, three hours delayed.

Jayapatākā: The flight was late.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So everyone can take rest now.

Page Title:Religious (Conversations 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:27 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=116, Let=0
No. of Quotes:116