Religious (Conversations 1975)

Expressions researched:
"religious" |"religiously" |"religiousness"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: religious* not "religious system*" not "religious principle*" not "religious life"

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: We have enough space here to store all the Spanish books, because they are printed in Los Angeles, or in America.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: Maybe we should walk around again.

Prabhupāda: I think no religious publisher have seen such big go-down in their life, throughout the whole world. As soon as they will hear about religious book they immediately avoid it, especially the Communist country. And bring some Communist country man to show him that "You are trying to avoid God. Now see how we are preaching God."

Jayatīrtha: In one country, Communist country, Albania, they made it against the law to pray in public or in private. Anyone who is found praying in public or in private may be arrested.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi was a politician. What does he know about dharma? He was a politician. He thought it wise that British government is very strong... Before him so many political parties tried to become violent, and they were all curbed down. This Aurobindo also was a leader of anarchist party, and when he was condemned to death, then his senses came: "This is all useless. Let me engage in performing yoga." So Gandhi thought that before him all these violent movement was cast down by the British. So he took it as a method, nonviolence, noncooperation, and to capture the public of India-India is generally inclined religiously—he became a mahātmā. But mahātmā is different. A mahātmā is not interested in politics. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ-prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso (BG 9.13). That is mahātmā. Mahātmā has nothing to do with politics.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Guest (4): So dharma there means to the religious faith or duty?

Prabhupāda: No, dharma is duty, varṇāśrama-dharma. That is also given up. That means the only duty becomes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya. In the beginning He said that dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Yes. Yuge yuge sambhavāmi. Now, He said that "I appear to reestablish the principle of religion." So at the last stage He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya. That means the so-called dharmas, or religion, which is going on in the world, they are not real. And the Bhāgavata therefore says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2), that "All kinds of pretending religion is rejected here." Pretending religion, what is that? Pretending... Just like gold. Gold is gold. If the gold is in the hand of some Hindu, then will it be called Hindu gold? Similarly, religion means obedience to God. So where is Hindu religion? Where is Christian religion? Where is Muslim religion? God is everywhere, and we are just meant for obeying God. That is one religion, obedience to God. Why they have manufactured this Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion, this religion, that...? Therefore they are all pretending religion. Real religion is obedient... Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19).

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am ātmā. You are ātmā. Ātmā.

Professor: ...the ātman of the world, let's say, absolute...

Prabhupāda: Yes. The ātmā and Paramātmā, Paramātmā. As I was speaking, nityo nityānām. We are all nityas, eternal, but there is one chief nitya. Just like leader. Everywhere we go, we have got a leader. Now, this, your Mexico state, there is a president. You cannot avoid it. In your college there is principal. There must be a leader. Similarly, the whole thing taken together, there must be one leader. You have to speak from experience that in your physical department or in your religious department there is a chief, leader, professor. Or you may be. But that is the way. Therefore Vedic information is that we are eternal, but there is another eternal who is chief eternal. That is God. He is eternal; we are also eternal. Then what is difference? The difference is that eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān: "That one eternal, chief eternal, He is maintaining all the subordinate eternals." So both eternals are eternal and... The purpose is pleasure. Just like a small example, a family man. The father is the chief man in the family. The mother is there, the children are there, all together. But the father is the chief man in the family. He is maintaining the family, and there is ānanda, pleasure. Similarly, ānanda is the aim of both, all the eternals, the chief eternal or the subordinate eternal. But the supplier is the chief eternal. So when we come together, the chief eternal and the subordinate eternals, and enjoy together, that is the purpose of life.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): So he said one thing is to understand theoretically the knowledge, and the other is to practice it. What is the method for...?

Prabhupāda: Everything is there. All questions solved, economic, social, religious, politics, whatever you are-plus transcendental knowledge.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: And we are subordinate. Is it not our position?

Professor Fenton: Being servant, yes.

Prabhupāda: This is our position. God is maintainer and we are maintained. God is predominator and we are predominated. This is our position. We are not equal to God, neither over God. We are always subordinate. And why you are subordinate? Because He maintains us. That is the difference between God and ourselves. He is the supreme being and we are subordinate being. We are maintained by God. That is Vedic instruction. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13) This is understanding of God. He is nitya, He's eternal, and we are also eternal because we are samples of God. God is great and perfect and in our this position we are subordinate, and in material condition we are imperfect. So even if we become perfect, still we remain subordinate. Therefore our position is always to abide by the orders of God. This is religion. When we abide by the orders of God, then we are religious. When we do not, then we are demons or Satan. (speaks with arriving guests in Hindi, inviting them to come in and asking whether they have been to the temple in Vṛndāvana) Religion means to remain faithful to God and abide by His order. That is religion.

Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Devotee: No, that is a little spoon for your tilaka.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So cow is very important animal. So from religious point of view, or from economic point of view, cows are not allowed, in the Vedic civilization, to be killed. The meat-eaters, they are everywhere, all over the world, but in India meat-eating is allowed—the fifth class, fifth grade community, they eat these cows when it is dead. And the śūdra class, they also eat meat restrictively, goats. That is only under certain restriction, means sacrifice. The goat is sacrificed in the Goddess Kali's temple, and they eat. This is very dangerous, this sacrifice. It is very dangerous. It creates all sinful men. In the Christian religion also, it is said, "Thou shall not kill," and they are killing. So what kind of Christians they are?

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: So this is very important movement. Try to understand and broadcast it. It is not a sectarian, so-called religious movement. It is a scientific movement.

Reporter: You mean this movement in the world?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And all our books, they are very nicely being accepted...

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: When Kṛṣṇa was playing flute at dead of night, all the gopīs were flying to Kṛṣṇa. His father, his husband—"Where you are going in this dead of...? Where you are going?" They didn't care. Society, friendship, love—all sacrificed: "We shall go to Kṛṣṇa." This is kṛṣṇa-bhakti. That is the highest perfection of life, to sacrifice everything for Kṛṣṇa. "Only Kṛṣṇa should be satisfied." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But that is not very easy job. But one can do if he likes, everything for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says also, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Gopīs did not care for social, for religious or family and nothing. Sarva-dharmān parityajya. They went: "Kṛṣṇa now is calling. Let us go." This is the typical example of sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ. So, of course, it is not possible to become on the standard of gopīs. That is not possible. But at least we shall try to follow these devotees. Arjuna is there, gopīs are there, Uddhavas are there—many devotees. Lord Brahmā is there. Lord Śiva is there. Kapiladeva is there. The four Kumāras are there. Bhīṣmadeva is there. Prahlāda Mahārāja is there. Janaka Mahārāja is there. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is there. So mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186).

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: The process of change of consciousness which is actually taking place in the world under many influences, I think...

Prabhupāda: No. The influence should be only Kṛṣṇa, or God. Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of "Kṛṣṇa"—God. But they have no clear idea what is God. How does He speak, how does He act, where does He live, what is His form, what is His qualities—nobody knows. Ask any religious people, "Do you know about all this, about God?" They do not know. What do you think, Atreya? Have they any clear conception of God? They imagine something. If they think of God at all... First of all, generally they think of impersonal or void. Just like the Buddhists. They think God is zero. And others, they think that God has no form. The two classes. The Hindus they think, "Yes, God has no particular form, but He has got many forms. And you can imagine any one of them." That is Śaṅkara, the pañcopāsana. But still, Śaṅkara is very careful. He has given five particular forms. The Goddess Durgā, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Śiva, the sun, then... Therefore there are a section who are the sun worshiper, or fire worshiper. Original Iranians were like that. So that is Vedic culture. There... Vedic culture means there are many demigods, but the original God is accepted-Viṣṇu. And original to Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: Like we did together in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. You have seen it. They were very much eager. They were very much eager: "Swamiji continue." And the others, like Communist and others, they became upset. I have seen many big, big officers. They were chanting, returning from the office in the office dress, and they were chanting and dancing. And you have seen the crowd, twenty thousand, thirty thousand people. The same thing happened in Calcutta. Now the government did not give us again that land. Yes. Last time when we held that conference in Delhi...

Paramahaṁsa: On the LIC Grounds?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. They gave us that Tal Kotara Park, you know? That is in the jungle. Nobody could reach there, and they gave us place there. (Ambassador laughs) Still, there were not less ten thousand people. It was not easily approachable. The motorcar cannot go. You have to leave your car three miles away to come there.

Ambassador: I know the place.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You know very well. You are (were?) in Delhi.

Ambassador: It is a difficult thing to get to.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they gave us place. At the last moment they rejected. First of all they gave. Then, at the last moment, the municipality said, "No, this land cannot be given to any religious function." Rejected. And offered, "If you like, you can take this place." So we had no other alternative to accept it. We advertised that "We are going to hold this ceremony," and the authority rejected at the eleventh hour and offered the Tal Kotara place. We had to accept it. And the government indirectly giving us so many hindrances in India. Yes. They do not like. One of the important member of the cabinet, he frankly said that "We do not want that your movement will increase very fast in India." Because they know it, Indira Gandhi and company, that India is naturally inclined to Kṛṣṇa. And if the selected people of the world, combined together, they push this movement in India, then the whole program of the modern leaders will collapse. That's a fact. And that was my idea. I wanted to start this movement from India. But nobody cooperated. So then I decided to come to America. And my plan was successful.

Ambassador: What was your connection with McGill? I heard from...

Prabhupāda: (Sic:) McGill. McGill I was...

Ambassador: You preached (?) first in McGill?

Prabhupāda: No, I was lecturing only.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's (break)

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...movement, (Bengali) bogus religious, it is scientific. You can question; I will understand. (break) They do not know what is the meaning of life. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Another blind leader, so-called leader, he is blind himself. He does not know how to lead people. And the followers, followers are also blind. So what will be the result? They are bound up... Suppose if I tightly wrap your eyes, and all of them are done so, then how you will lead them?

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Honest people will take to religious way of life. The Communists becoming victorious means they are also ruined. Who is that saintly person, sitting under the tree?

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Indian government does not like you Americans.

Devotee (1): Indian government. Yes.

Prabhupāda: And they're making propaganda. They're thinking that the Americans, under the dress of religious people, the C.I.A., they have come to disrupt. And this is the position.

Devotee (1): So everything is the same as it was then. It's just the war, the actual fighting has been postponed for some time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the...

Bhagavān: Do we have any danger that...? I mean we are building such important establishments in India. Do we have any danger...?

Prabhupāda: There is no danger internationally. Suppose... Just like the Buddhists. They have got their all pilgrimages in India. Because Lord Buddha is Indian. He spread Buddhism all over the world. So all the Buddhist relics and pilgrimages are in India. Gaya Pradesh and other, Benares... So India government allow them free, freedom to come here as pilgrimage. So you are now Vaiṣṇava. Why they should not allow you to come to your pilgrimage in India, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthplace? You have adopted Lord Caitanya, Lord Kṛṣṇa's birthplace. Legally, they cannot. They should, rather, make arrangement. But, from political point of view, they're thinking that "These Americans have taken to this religious garb. Actually they are intending something political." That is the general impression. C.I.A. What can be done? Therefore I was stressing this point that you Americans, if you make your country strong, Kṛṣṇa conscious, that will be good for the whole world. Actually you are doing that, but they are misunderstanding, in a different way. They cannot believe that an Indian guru can control so many American young boys on religious prin... Because nobody could do that. Just like all other, Mahesha Yogi and... He, they might have some American followers, but they are not coming here, taking so active part.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1975, Mayapur:

Devotee (1): He said that "You are as good as the all-pervading Supersoul."

Prabhupāda: Yes. He... He pointed out the deficiency, that "You have not described so elaborately about the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You have touched only the social, religious, political point of views." That was his deficiency. So a disciple is always in deficiency before his spiritual master. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, guru more murkha dekhi karila śāśana (CC Adi 7.71). "My spiritual master saw Me a fool number one. Therefore he has chastised Me." So disciple should be always ready to be chastised. He should not think that he has become perfect. That is perfection. So long he thinks that he is not perfect-he's to be chastised—then he's perfect. And as soon as he thinks that he has become perfect, he's nonsense immediately, nonsense number one. (Break) ...always to be chastised by the spiritual master for perfection. And if he thinks that now he has become perfect, then he's a foolish. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, guru more murkha dekhi. "My spiritual master saw Me a fool number one." Was He fool number one? He's God Himself. But that is the position. He should remain always a fool number one, ready to be chastised. Then he's perfect. In the moral instruction, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita gives this instruction, that lālane bahavo doṣas tadane bahavo guṇaḥ: "If you chastise your son or disciple, he'll improve, and if you say, 'Oh, you are all right,' then he'll degrade." Tasmāt putraṁ ca śiṣyaṁ ca tāḍayet na tu lalayet: "Therefore you always chastise your son and disciple. Never flat..." What is called?

Jayādvaita: Flatter.

Prabhupāda: No.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: So that is his position. Either he is a foolish rascal or he is not a gentleman, falsely preaching Bhagavad-gītā. That is his position. If you do not know a subject matter, why do you talk about it? Either you mislead or cheat or you are a foolish, you have no science. Similarly, here is a tape recorder, I do not know how the machine is working. If I talk about it authoritatively is it not my foolishness? I can talk about Bhagavad-gītā or something else, but that does mean I know everything about this machine? But he did it like this. He was dealing in politics, and he took up as a mahātmā, a religious man. That was his cheating.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Anyone who takes milk... Everyone takes milk. The cow is the mother. Mother gives milk. And mother, when she cannot supply milk, mother should be cut up. Is that a very good philosophy? Is it human philosophy? What is the answer? But if you say that somebody wants to, say in your country majority they want to eat meat. So, if you put that argument, then you can eat some lower animals. You can eat the pigs. You are eating also, pigs. Not in a massive scale. Massive scale—if you are Christian you should follow your religious scripture: "Thou shall not kill!" This should be the principle. But if you are a rākṣasa, if you want to eat meat, then at least don't kill the cows. You can eat other, insignificant animals. You are eating also. You are eating everything. Except the moving cars, you are eating all the moving animals. The car also moves, but you cannot eat. Otherwise you are killing everything. You have become so civilized rascal that your business is to kill other animals and eat. You are so civilized.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yajña means to satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is yajña. Yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ. Karma means your activities. Whatever you are doing, that is karma. You are working as geologist? What is?

Justin Murphy: Geographer.

Prabhupāda: Geographer. And another man is working in the factory or somewhere else. Everyone is working. So by working the aim should be how to perform yajña. That is... That should the... Suppose you are geographer, and I am a religious preacher, and he is a cultivator, he is a factory man, he is a motorcar driver. So that is all right. But if we sit down together and perform yajña simply by glorifying the Lord, where is the loss in your part or my part or his part? Where is the loss? Suppose as a geographer, you sit down; as a religious preacher, I sit down; as a motorcar driver, he sits down; as a factory worker, he sits down and perform yajña. Yajña means we chant the holy name of the Lord. Where is the difficulty?

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: And this is one of the problems. It's nowhere near as simple as, I am sure, as you suggest, and I wish it were.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is simple. It is simple.

Justin Murphy: The Roman Catholics are a jealous people. Roman Catholics are jealous religious people. They refuse even still to accept, for example, that Anglicans pray in the same way as they do. They refuse to accept that Anglicans pray as well as they do.

Prabhupāda: No, one thing is that may be Anglican, may be Roman Catholics, may be Christian, may be Hindu or Muslim or anyone. Whether they have God in their conception of religion or not. Do they have God or no God?

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa:

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.42)

Translation: "Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."

Prabhupāda: This is first-class man.

Justin Murphy: Who decides whether a man, then, is..., fits into those criteria and becomes a first-class man? Who decides? Who is to say whether a man is first class or not?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. He should be first of all qualified like this. What is that?

Paramahaṁsa: Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness.

Justin Murphy: But once a man has strived for those qualities, how does he know when he's attained them? And...

Prabhupāda: No, you... Śamaḥ, śamaḥ. The first word is śamaḥ?Śamaḥ means equilibrium of the mind. One should be trained up in such a way that he is not disturbed in his mind in any circumstance. That is called śamaḥ. And damaḥ, damaḥ means controlling the senses. Naturally I find one beautiful woman I want to talk with him (her), and he (she) is other's wife. But I should: "No, why should I talk with other's wife?" This is damaḥ, controlling the senses. So śamaḥ means keeping the mind always equipoised, and damaḥ, the controlling the mind. And suppose if... I have to eat something to live. So God has given me so many nice foodstuff: food grain, fruits, milk. Why should I kill an animal unnecessarily, for the taste of my tongue?

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sex is allowed only married couple. And that is also only for begetting child.

Guest (1): Married under what law? Under what religion? Under what religious law?

Prabhupāda: There is in Bhagavad-gītā, that dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. Find out. You can come here and read.

Paramahaṁsa: Which was that? Dharma...

Prabhupāda: Dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi.

Paramahaṁsa: Dharmāviruddho bhūteṣu?

Prabhupāda: No, dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. Dharma-aviruddha. You know that verse.

Paramahaṁsa: Is that balaṁ balavatāṁ cāham?

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes, yes, yes.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, you can keep me engaged whole day and night, (laughter) provided you have got time. We are meant for this purpose. If anyone can understand God consciousness, that is a great profit for us. Now our appeal is to everyone, every religious sect, that people are becoming godless generally at the present moment. So we should make combined effort to revive their God consciousness. Otherwise it is doomed. And there is no question of Christian God or Hindu God or Muslim God. God is one. So there should be no difference between the system. According to the time and circumstances, there may be little difference, but really if we can understand God, either through Christianity or through Hinduism or Muslim, that is our profit. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). "That is first-class religion, following which, one becomes a lover of God". You become a lover of God. That we want to see. It doesn't matter whether you go through Christian religion or Mohammedan religion or Hindu religion or Buddhist...

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Journalist: And what were you in India before that? Did you have a religious background?

Prabhupāda: No, no, from the very childhood we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, our family, the Vaiṣṇava family. My father and my forefathers, they are all belonged to this cult, Kṛṣṇa cult. So naturally from our childhood we were trained up in this cult.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Dr. Copeland: But don't you look upon him as a religious man? Gandhi, religious man?

Prabhupāda: He was a politician. In the garb of. He consolidated the mass of Indian people, becoming a mahātmā, but he was not a mahātmā.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Amogha:

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.42)

"Translation: Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."

Prabhupāda: This is first-class man.

Dr. Copeland: I'm not a first-class man.

Prabhupāda: No, that I do not know, but if you have got these qualities... We have to judge by the qualities, not by birth. But since India accepted a brāhmaṇa by birth without these qualities, India's civilization fell down.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: Just a moment. Just a moment. It is the fact that we have a lot of destitutes to look after, and you feel your religious order would like to help people. If the government subsidizes you to provide these services...

Prabhupāda: That we can do.

Director: That you can do. As long as they don't contradict your...

Prabhupāda: No. Our principle is this.

Director: I mean a lot of church organizations taking children and...

Prabhupāda: You can see one day. If you kindly come early in the morning and stay one day, you see our activity, how nicely we are doing. And then do the needful.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Amogha:

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.42)

Translation: "Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."

Prabhupāda: So we have to train men like that.

Guest 1: I don't think anybody would disagree with anyone of those.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest 1: I don't think anybody would disagree with any one of those.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So as you are training lawyer, as you are training medical man, you can train some men like that. It is possible. If you train from the childhood, it is possible. It doesn't matter from which family he is coming, but it will require, trained up. Just like you have been trained up as lawyer, it doesn't matter from which family you have... It may be lawyer's family or engineer's family. It doesn't matter. But training. So at the present moment, to make the society perfect, a class of men should be trained as it is described here. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And if the first-class men are there, people will consult them, people will follow them, the whole society will be nice.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: In London we wanted to purchase one church that was not working. In London. But when we approached that priest, the in-charge, not directly to me but one of my disciples, he informed him that "I shall better set fire in this church. Still, I shall not give to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Guest 1: That's one reason that the main religion has possibly become bad in the eyes of non-religious people when they hear something like that. Because you could assume that whatever religion, if a person was religious...

Prabhupāda: Religion means God. God is one.

Guest 1: ...that that should aid all religions. And the more Kṛṣṇas there are, the more other religious people might benefit. Yet they can't see it.

Prabhupāda: According to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, religion means the law given by God. Just like law means the act given by the state. You cannot manufacture law, I cannot manufacture law. From that purport (?) give me. So Mr. Raymond has gone?

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Hari-śauri: There are so many altruistic movements, but actually there is no peace coming about.

Prabhupāda: It is not effective. Just like the government spending to stop drug habit, millions of dollars, no use, but as soon as they come to us, immediately they give up. But still, the rascal will not pay the money to us. (laughter) We are doing so much benefit, but they will not pay. If you ask them money, "No, no, our money is not for religious purpose. For science. Our money is for science." Science means how, scientifically, you can kill cows. This is science. How, scientifically, you can become less than cats and dogs. This is their science. The cats and dogs also, they do not kill their children, but they are scientific advanced; the doctor advises, "Kill it."

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Harikeśa: Some of the astronauts became very religious after they supposedly went.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are intelligent, that "This is all nonsense. Real thing is God." That is... They come to their senses. They are intelligent. (break) (In car:) ...real business is to enhance your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These people, they are wasting time simply to know something else. There is no limit. Kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. What is moon planet? What business you have got to know the...? Whatever is stated in the śāstra, accept it, that's all. What is the use of experiment and going there and then again say, "Oh, it is all failure." Simply waste of time. The arrangement is there by God. That's all. Spending so much money, hard-earned money, unnecessarily and then say, "Oh, it is failure."

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Yogi Bhajan: But everybody here in this world, four billion people, everybody does not have that experience...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean to say that every religious sect believes in God.

Yogi Bhajan: Um hm.

Prabhupāda: If we present, "Here is God. You are seeking after God. Here is God," now what they will say?

Yogi Bhajan: Well, some will say, "Yes, it is." Some will say, "No."

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. So if he says no, "Why do you say no? Then what is your conception of God?"

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Yogi Bhajan: Yeah, that's right. (laughter) So what I told him was that "It is a good idea." So we are carrying that good idea now, and Muni Sushila Kumar is coming from India, then Swami Chittananda is leading that tour. And they have sent a list of sixteen other religious people who are coming. They are going to U.N.O., where the peace presentation this year is happening. I think we should participate in that. Then there is a vegetarian congress. There the participation is happening. And all this has been done just to lay the platform and honor the idea of that man Kirpal Singh Sant. Just he wanted that way. So we thought it is a better idea to be in the West and with the arrangements that everybody can come, participate, talk to each other. I would like you to be in New Mexico in one of the presentable cabin, and not let anybody of these devotee of you be around but to ask other people to come and talk to you, learn from you, share with you, share your wisdom, share your conviction, share your experience...

Prabhupāda: That's a good idea, very good.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...photo must be there.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, here's his, his photograph is also on this round bucket. He puts his photograph on the bucket.

Prabhupāda: He has become a very big man.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: By killing chickens.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. He actually is beginning to look like a chicken, his face. He's actually starting to look like a chicken.

Ambarīṣa: He claims he is a very religious man too.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Ambarīṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is the sample of religious man. And what is irreligious? If the religious men kill so many chickens daily, then what is the irreligious man do?

Siddha-svarūpa: They're vegetarians. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: He kills the chicken and fry it in oil. And that is sold.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. Big money. They...

Ambarīṣa: He's also very involved in politics.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? He's a politician also?

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Nobody respects. Nowadays, if somebody is religious, he is thought of as a fool. He's not...

Siddha-svarūpa: Actually, because what you're saying is right, people are going away from religion. There is no use for it anymore.

Prabhupāda: No religion. No, they do not know what is the meaning of religion. Therefore they create some religious system. They create: "Let me create something. After all, it is bluffing. So if I can..." Just like this, from India there are so many come. Here also there are many. They create some. It is... After all, it is bluffing. "So let me create something." Real business is to bluff and take money.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Now we can change that, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with this college. We can get our men in all religious departments.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our duty, to give them knowledge. The knowledge is there. The candidates are there. Only the guardians should be sane, that "Save the children." Otherwise they will produce only hippies. That's all. (break) So long you will work on the mental plane, then the tendency will be that "Let me refute you, and I become prominent." And he will think that "Let me refute him. I become." This business will go on. But there will be no end of philosophy. So what is the use of such philosophy, simply continually go on mentally speculating, no conclusion? Philosophy means, "Here is the conclusion."

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Indian guest: Oh yes, Swamiji. Listening, part of the conversation I heard. (break) ...these college courses and units, and I realize that to teach a religious course which is a Vedic culture first needs devotion, second needs knowledge. And I need both of them. I lack both of them. And this is... But still, I can support this kind of...

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. Because you have a little desire to know, so that we have to take, a small fire, and we have to fan it. Then it will come, blazing fire. Kali-yuga means actually there is no brāhmaṇa, but whenever there is a little tendency of becoming brāhmaṇa, we take it, accept. Otherwise there is no question of pushing on this movement. Wherever there is little chance, we take advantage. That is our process. (break) Initiation means just to see, "Here is a little chance. He is coming forward. Take it, accept him, and fan it." This is initiation, not that "Now I am initiated, I become perfect." (break) Theological Union, when it was started.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Who is his new wife? Do you know? He has a new wife.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Jayatīrtha: Apparently, she is more religiously minded than the last one.

Prabhupāda: The last one was religiously? Petri, Petri?

Jayatīrtha: Patty.

Prabhupāda: Patty. (break)

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: When animal killing is required according to Vedic civilization, those who are meat-eaters, they are allowed to kill some insignificant animal like deer, goat, pigs. It is for the animal eaters, not for all. But if one is bent upon... And there are persons, they want meat-eating. So for them these unimportant animals are recommended. But cow is very important animal. You get from its milk so many nutritious food. So apart from religious sentiment, from economic point of view, cow-killing is not good. And from moral point of view it is not good because you drink cow's milk, so cow is your mother. According to Vedic civilization, there are seven mothers.

Garden Conversation -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: Yes. And I've been trying to get the particulars up in Berkeley concerning certain possibilities and I, of course, wrote to the...

Prabhupāda: No, it is possibility. Just like you have got this religious section, similarly, we can have Vedic theological section. That's all. It is a section department.

Dr. Judah: The idea of the college that you have in mind, is this going to be an all-around college, in other words teaching not only, you might say, Vaiṣṇavism, but also English and the other subjects?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Dr. Judah: In other words, a liberal arts college with a religious section in it.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like your association is graduate. So you accept graduates to the Union?

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.42)

"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."

Prabhupāda: This is first-class man. And the second-class man?

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Viṣṇujana: According to national statistics, as far as curing drug problems and crime problems, it's seen that social organizations that are supported by the town councils, etc. are usually about 3% effective in cases cured of either drug addiction or crime. But as far as religious organizations are concerned, some of them are 70, 80% effective in cases that have been attempted cure. So it's, as far as percentage cured, the process of introducing God consciousness is much more effective than some social reform or rehabilitation work or something like that.

Prabhupāda: No, social reform will automatically come. The first-class reform, the brāhmaṇas, if their advice is taken, then the other classes the kṣatriya, vaiśyas, and śūdras, they become automatically.

Mayor: We're aware that a religious approach is more successful and our mental health society here is funding the Reverend Perry who is a black ordained, I think, a Baptist protestant minister, formerly a drug addict. And he's been working out with, especially with the blacks who have drug addiction and he achieves much more success than other agencies.

Prabhupāda: Which process? Drug addiction has been helped by somebody?

Brahmānanda: No, the mayor's saying that the administration is not against supporting religious organizations.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: He gives the example of one religious organization.

Prabhupāda: This is everything. Religious, social, political, philanthropical, science, everything included. We can give advice for solving any problem. That we have got all these books, practical. And in India there is political problem. Everywhere it is going on. They do not follow the standard way. Who will be the politicians? Here is the..., described. What are the politicians? Second-class, they are taken second-class. What is that? Śaurya tejaḥ?

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: If I understand you then correctly, sir, you would say that the emphasis should be returned to the religious aspects.

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Without religious aspect what is the difference between dog and man? Man can be turned to be a religious man, the dog cannot be. That is the difference between dog and man. So if you keep the human society to the status of dogs and cats, how you can expect peaceful society? If you bring one dozen of dogs and if you want to keep them peacefully, is it possible? So if we keep human society as dogs, then how you can expect peacefulness?

Lt. Mozee: Some of my questions might sound disrespectful. If they do it is only because I do not understand completely your religious beliefs, and I mean no disrespect whatsoever.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not my religious belief. I am just giving you general description of religious life and animal life. The animal cannot be taken to the churches and teach something about God. It is not possible. But a human being can be. So if the human being is refused this facility, then you keep them as cats and dogs. And you cannot expect any peaceful condition of life in the society of cats and dogs. So therefore it is the duty of the authority, of the government, of the elderly person, father, guardian, to teach the subordinate how to become God conscious. Otherwise, there will be trouble because there is no difference between dogs and man in every respect. The dog eats, we eat. The dog sleeps, we sleep. The dog have sex, we have sex. The dog also tries to defend itself, we also try to defend ourself. These are common factors. The only difference is the dog cannot be instructed about his relation with God, but man can be instructed.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Wouldn't that sort of peace be a precursor to a return to religion? Must we not first have peace?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is the difficulty. We do not know the meaning of religion. At the present moment the human society does not know what is the meaning of religion. The meaning of religion is to abide by the laws of God, just like a good citizen means who abides by the laws of the state, of the government. Because we have no understanding of God, therefore we do not know what is the laws of God, and therefore we do not know what is religion. That is the present status of the human society. They are forgetting religion. They take religion as a kind of faith. Faith may be blind faith. Faith is not the real description of religion. Religion means the laws which is given by God, and anyone who follows the laws, he is religious. It doesn't matter whether he is a Christian or a Hindu or Muslim. If he follows the laws of God, then he is religious.

Lt. Mozee: Again I say I mean no disrespect, but in India, where the religious customs have been followed for centuries upon centuries, we are seeing a, not a return, but we are seeing a drawing away. We are seeing a drawing away from the spiritual world and the spiritual life in today's society.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is due to bad leadership. Otherwise, Indian mass of people, they are fully conscious of God and they try to follow the laws of God, the mass of people. Here even the big, big professor, they do not believe in God, they do not believe in next life. But India, even the poorest man, he knows that "There is God. There is next life. If I commit sinful life I will suffer. If I live piously, then I shall enjoy." Even the low-grade society, social man, he believes it. Still if there is some disagreement, the village people go to the temple for settlement, and the opposite parties will hesitate to speak lies before the temple, still. So in that respect India is still 80 percent religious, 80 percent religious. That is the special privilege of taking birth in India. That is a fact.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Um hm. Well, those who believe in our country in Christianity believe these things. I don't see the vast differences between the spiritual belief of one religious group as opposed to another.

Prabhupāda: We don't say that. We don't say that. We say that you follow any religious system. Doesn't matter. But you understand God and love Him. That is our propaganda. We do not say that "You are Christian. This is not good. You come here." We do not say. Why say? Everything is... But our proposition is that either you are Christian or Muslim or Hindu, it doesn't matter. You understand God and love Him, that's all.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Jayatīrtha:

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.42)

"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which a brāhmaṇa works."

Prabhupāda: This is first-class. Now śamo damaḥ... Śamaḥ means controlling the mind, mind is always peaceful. You can train. Then controlling the senses. Then truthful. Then full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life. These are the qualification of first-class man. Everything is there. If you train a boy to become first-class man, he can become first-class man. If you don't train, then he will become a debauch, criminal, disturbing. So we are training in the Gurukula to become first-class men. This is our aim. Unless in the society an ideal first-class man, then how one will become, or follow the ideal? There is no ideal. Now what is the idea of first-class man now? Can I ask you? What is your idea of first-class man? Whom do you call first-class man?

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Jayatīrtha: Recently we got a conviction against him. He got six months in prison. In Los Angeles we got to convict him for this kind of activity. So he is being stopped.

Guest (Indian man): Also he can't come to Canada any more, can't cross the border.

Jayatīrtha: Oh, he's been barred.

Guest: He is barred from coming to Canada.

Brahmānanda: He was put into the Denver county jail also when we were in Denver. He's out on bail now.

Mrs. Wax: Not only kidnapping devotees, Kṛṣṇa devotees, but all religious movements. He can't stand them.

Prabhupāda: And the parents are taking help from him.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is the difficulty.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Nitāi:

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.42)

"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."

Prabhupāda: This is first-class man. Then second-class man?

Nitāi:

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

"Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas."

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: God is great. "Great" means, "who is greater than you in every respect." We understand a rich man as very great, a wise man as very great, a strong man is very great, beautiful man is very great. In this way there are six opulences: riches, strength, wisdom, beauty, education... In this way the six opulences, when you find in somebody in full, in complete, without any competition, that is God.

Reporter (3): You listed five.

Jayatīrtha: The sixth one is renunciation.

Prabhupāda: Another, renunciation.

Reporter (3): Religious, strong, beautiful...

Prabhupāda: Religious?

Jayatīrtha: Wealthy, riches.

Reporter (3): Riches, strong, wise, beautiful, education, and renunciation.

Prabhupāda: These six opulences, when you find in the greatest quantity, nobody can excel. Here in America you have got rich man, but nobody can say that "I am the richest of all." But God can say that He is richest of all. He is strongest of all, He is wisest of all, He is the most beautiful, in this way where nobody can compete and nobody can surpass, that is God.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Jayatīrtha: So do you understand? The idea is that this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is based on authority of the Vedas. And the Vedic literatures are coming directly from Kṛṣṇa. So we only accept it as truth what Kṛṣṇa says and we don't accept anybody's mental concoctions or speculations as being truth. And this is the problem with so many other religious movements today, that they depend on the interpretation or the...

Prabhupāda: Concoction.

Jayatīrtha: ...philosophy of some ordinary man. So this is the primary differential.

Prabhupāda: We don't say anything which is not spoken by God in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore it is appealing everywhere. Although it is in Sanskrit language, still, it is appealing. Just like if you go on the street and the signboard is, "Keep to the right," this is law. I cannot say, "What is the wrong if I keep to the left?" Then I am criminal. You cannot dictate. The government has said, "Keep to the right." You have to do that, that is law. If you violate, then you are criminal. Pay fine. But ordinarily, one may think, "What is the wrong there, instead of keeping right, if I keep to the left?" He may think like that, but he doesn't know that is criminal.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Father: Does that mean to say that you can't live a happy life without being religious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Father: I am eons away from this whole thing because I don't believe any religion. My son knows this.

Prabhupāda: You do not follow any religion?

Father: None at all. I will give philosophical discussions...

Prabhupāda: And still you are happy?

Father: Yes, I'm very happy. I have my moments when I'm not, of course. Basically I'm happy with my family, with my work...

Prabhupāda: Do you think your father is happy?

Devotee: No. (laughter)

Father: I don't feel very happy. (laughter) But...

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So this instruction is strīṣu duṣṭāsu: "When women become polluted, there is unwanted population." That is coming all over the world, the hippies. Therefore the first thing is how to train up women not to become polluted. This is the way of... In the modern society they have given women freedom. That I have already explained. In the name of freedom of woman, they are being exploited. Everything is there: social, religious, political, cultural, educational. We have to accept that course. Then everything will be all right. If you don't accept, then you have to suffer problems. It is not meant for a particular class of men or particular country, it is meant for the whole human society. Therefore, this purification of the society at the present, fallen condition is very, very difficult to revive. Because people are so fallen, it is almost impossible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that "You all together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be done nicely."

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Brahmānanda: We have already discussed that pure devotional service to the Lord is automatically followed by perfect knowledge and detachment from material existence. But there are others who consider that all kinds of different occupational engagements, including those of religion, are meant for material gain. The general tendency of any ordinary man in any part of the world is to gain some material profit in exchange for religious or any other occupational service. Even in the Vedic literatures, for all sorts of religious performances an allurement of material gain is offered, and most people are attracted by such allurements or blessings of religiosity. Why are such so-called men of religion allured by material gain? Because material gain can enable one to fulfill desires, which in turn satisfy sense gratification. This cycle of occupational engagements includes so-called religiosity followed by material gain and material gain followed by fulfillment of desires. Sense gratification is the general way for all sorts of fully occupied men. But in the statement of Sūta Gosvāmī, as per the verdict of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, this is nullified by the present śloka.

One should not engage himself in any sort of occupational service for material gain only. Nor should material gain be utilized for sense gratification. How material gain should be utilized is described as follows.

Prabhupāda: People are after material gain. They have no spiritual information even, what is spirit, what is the need of spiritual realization, they do not know. Therefore they have been described as mūḍhas: fools and rascals. Those who are after material way of...

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: Would you... Do you feel that those who've had genuine religious, spiritual understanding would not have that kind of argument?

Prabhupāda: Yes. One... We say... I do not say, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that... Find out this verse,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Bhaktadāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what effects are the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement having on the Christian-Judaic culture or the traditional religious culture?

Prabhupāda: We are speaking of religion. Religion means to know God and to love God. So does the Christian-Jewish religious system deny this? Then where is the difference? If Christian religion is meant for understanding God and try to love Him, the same thing we are preaching. The same thing, Jewish religion may be preaching. And where is that religion who denies the supremacy of God? What is that religion? Is there any religion in the world who denies the supremacy of God? We say, "Religion means the laws given by God." This is our definition. Therefore we must know what is God, what are His orders, and we must carry out the order and what is the end of carrying out such orders. If we try to understand these three or four things, then we are religious. If there is no attempt to understand what is God and what is His order and how we are acting, what is the goal of our life, then where is religion? That is not religion. Religion means these four principles: What is God, what we are, what is our relationship with God, and act accordingly and achieve the goal of life. This is religion. So any religious system which does not consider all these things, that is not religion. That has been explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kaitavaḥ. Kaitavaḥ means cheating. Religion means these things, wherever these things are there, that is religion, these enquiries. This is the subject matter of Vedānta-sūtra, where it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now the human life is meant for enquiring about the Supreme." So that is religion.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Jayatīrtha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you comment on opposition to the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in this country?

Prabhupāda: No, why they should oppose? What is the reason? If they are Christian or Jewish, religious men, so we are advocating, "You chant the holy name of God," so why there should be objection? Is there any reason for such objection? What is the objection?

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: He says that... His name is Edgar Mitchell, and he was one of the men who went to the moon. But we talked, and he said... He thinks he has gone to the moon. But he said that when he was there, he had a religious experience, and he felt that there was a God. When he went to the moon, he had this experience. So when he came back, he was telling all his scientist friends what his experience was. So they became very afraid, and they kicked him out of the space project. They thought he had become a fanatic, religious sentimentalist, so they kicked him out. So now he has opened up an institute for noetic sciences or... It is some Greek word. It means like spiritual sciences. He wants to prove to the scientific world that there is God.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. He is good.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Devotee (4): What I meant to say is that the directors of these religions like the Pope and so many things, they themselves have committed so many abominable activities that people have said, "Well, why should we stay with religion? These religious leaders themselves are eating meat, they have prostitution, they are cheating the people, taking their money, living very nicely..."

Prabhupāda: But that is not religion. Why you accept the Pope as religious?

Devotee (4): No, we don't accept...

Prabhupāda: You reject. You reject. Come to us. Why do you accept these rascals as religious? That is your fault. Why should you stick to them? They cannot teach what is real religion, so let us give you.

Paramahaṁsa: In Germany they say that's throwing the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Prabhupāda: Throwing? (laughter)

Paramahaṁsa: They wash the baby, and the water's dirty. So they throw the water out with the baby.

Prabhupāda: Throwing out the baby?

Devotee (4): With the bath water.

Paramahaṁsa: Well, they're assuming because there's some irreligion amongst the so-called religious leaders, therefore they reject all religion.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the basis for scientific rejection of religious dogma is that in the Medieval era in...

Prabhupāda: Religious..., not dogma. Just like in Christian religion it is said that "God created this." So this is a fact, but it is not properly explained. And neither the followers understood how to explain, third-class men. So therefore they should accept, that's all. They should accept. Just like one thing, sweetmeat. A child is tasting. So if the child wants how it is made, so he has no power to understand. Therefore he should be simply ordered, "You simply eat. That's all." So in the Bible it is like that. And therefore it is strictly ordered that "You should follow." The things are there but they are not explained because they were third-class men. Otherwise why the commandment was, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed first of all Jesus Christ? So what class of men they were? All third-class, fourth-class men. How they will understand? Now people have become, by education, advanced...

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Devotee: What subject matter?

Professor: In religious studies.

Prabhupāda: What is your definition of religion?

Professor: My definition of religion? I think religion has mostly to do with the kinds of questions people ask. Religion is the attempt to answer questions about "Who am I? and "Who is God?" and "How do I relate to God?"

Prabhupāda: That is nice. That is the meaning. So do the people in general know what is God?

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Yes, let them study another line of education. Just like there is religious section. It has nothing to do with the engineering, but there is section. Similarly, in religious section or in another section these things should you study, Bhāgavata. That is good. Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavata.

Car Conversation -- August 3, 1975, Detroit:

Brahmānanda: There is even some talk that he was wanting to join a monastery and live a life of austerity and contemplation.

Jagadīśa: He also favors a monarchy, a religious monarchy.

Prabhupāda: That is my philosophy.

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Brahmānanda: In Dr. Judah's book he gives interviews with the devotees, and they tell so many instances of how our devotees were so depressed and hopeless, and then they became Kṛṣṇa conscious, and oh, their whole lives have been transformed, and how happy and... Why don't they see that? They somehow discount it as being not very substantial, being fanatical or something religious. But it's a fact. He took a survey of "What was the thing that attracted you to the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?" So the majority, about 53%, they said it was the sound of the mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa. And another, about 48%, they said it was the friendliness of the devotees.

Prabhupāda: And that one, what is called? Draft? Draft man came to inquire that "What is the allurement here in this society that they try to avoid that..." What do you call? Draft? "...draftboard and come to this society? What is the facility?" So when he studied he said that "There is no facility; still harder. They have to give up so many things." He remarked like that, "Still harder."

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritamrta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in the foreign countries, Europe and America."

Lalitā: Is a biggest seller, I think... (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: There is no record in the whole world. That religious books are selling twenty lakhs now, it is no record.

Morning Walk -- August 24, 1975, Delhi:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He was very religious. I think if he would have been there today we would have had no problem.

Prabhupāda: Very good. (Hindi) He could not solve his own problem. (break)

Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Kartikeya: There are many. They fight with us. Over in office, when they come, they speak such ill words about many of our religious leaders and God. They are so much brainwashed, completely brainwashed. They call themselves Hindus, but they do not want to follow any God, only brahma-tattva or Brahman. They believe in the Vedas...

Madhudviṣa: Actually they are atheists.

Prabhupāda: Nāstika.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Unless one is actually spiritually situated, this material center of happiness, maithunādi, that will go anywhere. You give any color, spiritual or religious or political. You see? Why Gandhi's āśrama failed? Do you know that? This is... When Gandhi was in jail, when he came back he saw all pregnant. You did not know that?

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That abhiniveṣa gives him trouble. So this abhiniveṣa can be removed by increasing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is increased by following the regulative duties. Rise early in the morning, have maṅgala ārati, this, that, up to ten o'clock. Means vidhi.

Dr. Patel: That is religious vidhi.

Prabhupāda: So by vidhi, he becomes practiced, and....

Dr. Patel: That becomes a nature then.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then it is nature.

Dr. Patel: And finally it gives you sākṣād-dharma. (?)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: All that thing...

Prabhupāda: They are... The vidhi-niṣedha, if you give up vidhi-niṣedha, then you cannot improve.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: It was a socio-economic problem or socio-political, not a religious problem.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, but we never criticize anyone. When the Christians come forward—"Whether our Christian religion can also give the same meaning"—"Yes, why not?" Yes.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: These people have not been able to understand Gandhi's intentions. It is the misfortune of this country they have not been able to carry out his message. Other people are able to carry out his messages. Other people of the world are able to understand him well, but we people are fools not to understand him. No. His socio-economic condition..., I mean, program. His program for lifting the society... You are religious head. He was a sort of a, another man, but in his own spirit he was doing a good work.

Prabhupāda: Our proposition is that Bhagavad-gītā begins to distinguish the soul...

Dr. Patel: From the body.

Prabhupāda: And the body. But Gandhi has never said anywhere.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: These type of students were eternally there with all the religious teaching, past and present. But unfortunately...

Prabhupāda: So those who were there, they understood. They...

Dr. Patel: Unfortunate for the world it is not going to do that.

Prabhupāda: No, there was no preaching. That's it. Now the preaching is going on. They are understanding. Nobody preached this. If you... Just like a big building. If the foundation is wrong, then it will not stay.

Dr. Patel: This Bhagavad-gītā has got everything, all aspects of life.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: They say we have just undergone some religious conversion and become fanatical, and therefore we have given up.

Prabhupāda: No, why don't you become fanatical? (laughter)

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...this is a fact, that our Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the topmost yoga, and preach it. This is a fact. Except we, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nobody knows anything—all mūḍhas. Any association, any religion—all mūḍhas. But you must prove yourself. Otherwise it will be bigotry. If you simply say that "We are only first class" without any knowledge... You have to defend yourself. There will be so many opposing elements. Then you become first class. Your position is first class, but you have to maintain it. Otherwise, they will say "religious fanatics." Any opposition party, you have to meet. That is required.

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Devotee 1: They say that man has to dominate over the animals. They should...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you should kill and eat them. Very good reasoning. "The father should dominate over children; therefore the children should be killed and eaten up." So rascals, and they are professing religious leaders.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Harikeśa: When we went to Hyderabad we spoke to the Archbishop, and Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami asked him, "What is God?" And he said, "Well, nowadays there are so many theories as to what is God."

Prabhupāda: Theories.

Harikeśa: "Actually nobody knows."

Prabhupāda: Just see. A head of religious group, and he says, "There are so many theories." And this rascal is the head of the group. So what is the group?

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Then what is your definition of religion?

Professor: My definition of religion is ultimate..., which has to do with your ultimate concern. Ultimate concern. I mean, I can make religion out of... If my ultimate concern is money, then that is my religion, to put it that way. Or ideology and so forth... But it is my ultimate concern, what is my ultimate concern in life. What is my ultimate concern. Every man is religious. He's a homo religiosus, to put it in Latin. He's a religious being. Just as he wants to eat, he has to have religion.

Prabhupāda: So the transmigration of the soul, you take it as religion. It is not a science.

Professor: We haven't progressed so far.

Prabhupāda: But so far we are concerned, that is the basic principle of our further investigation in religion.

Professor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. So the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā is the teaching of transmigration of the soul. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So that is our first concern, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. This body will not exist, and we have to accept another body. Kṛṣṇa says, dehāntara-prāptiḥ, "another body." Now, there are 8,400,000 different types of body. Which body I am going to accept, there is no education. So I am kept in darkness. So what is the value of my education?

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Now... Yes, that we can say like this, that "two plus two equal to four"—this is applicable to the Hindus, Muslim, Christian, everyone. This is science.

Professor: Yes. No, no, I understand. I understand. I know where your argument is going to. But any case, let us beg to differ. Because... Let us accept it. I just want to say I agree with you in this sense. I agree with you in this sense, Swami, that if we do not pay attention to the religious side, then we keep the people in darkness. We have to, on the religious side too. (someone entering) Professor Olivier, the rector. (introducing) ...And this is our Swami Bhaktivedanta.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The principal of the university, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Hare Kṛṣṇa. How are you?

Professor: And Mister (indistinct) Singh from Pietermaritzburg, and Professor Maharaj you know. And all the other ladies and gentlemen.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to sit beside Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Professor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you can explain what I was talking.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Indian man (3): I want an answer, please. Are you suggesting that every person, whether he is Muslim or Christian or Buddhist or Jew or Parsi or anybody else for that matter, should accept the Hindu doctrine of transmigration or reincarnation of soul in order that he may be called really a religious person or a scientific person?

Prabhupāda: Well, the difficulty is that we are talking of transmigration of the soul on scientific basis. But you are trying to give it a Hindu color. Why? To become... I have already explained. To become old man is equally applicable to the Hindus, Muslim, Christian. So why you say it is Hindu belief? It is not Hindu belief. It is a science. Why you are bringing "Hindu, Muslim, Christian"? I do not know why.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They've taken your books in the past. (break) ...preaching, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we don't know whether to be diplomatic towards these other so-called religious movements or whether to simply expose the philosophy which they are putting forward.

Prabhupāda: No. You should be diplomatic. You should give positive information of our philosophy. Where need be, absolutely necessary, you can criticize others. (break)

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Indian man (1): What of meetings, religious meetings, especially here in South Africa?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian man (1): In South Africa here especially, number of religious meetings, they start off with the Gāyatrī mantra three times, and at the end of the meeting they have a ṣantipat. Now is there any real necessity for a religious meeting to start off with the Gāyatrī mantra and end with santipat?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's not bad.

Indian man (1): But I don't see that being practiced in the...

Prabhupāda: We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That includes everything. It is called mahā-mantra. It includes all mantras. Gāyatrī mantra is not to be chanted in the public loudly. That is not the system.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Indian man (3): And in the way of hospitals?

Prabhupāda: Hospitals, there are many, but real hospitals... to cure the material disease, there is no hospital. They are... There are hundreds and thousands of hospitals for curing the disease of the body, but there is no hospital to cure the disease of the soul. That is the defect. So we are opening hospital for curing the disease of the soul. They have no information about the soul throughout the whole world. Even so-called religious organizations, they have no information about the soul. They go to religious ceremonies for material profit. They do not know what is the necessity of the soul and what is the disease of the soul. They do not know. (break) ...nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. What is the goal of life, these people, they do not know, mūḍhas. Mūḍha means rascals, gadha. They do not know what is the goal of life. They take calculation of the duration of life, that fifty, sixty, or hundred years. That's all. Beyond this, after this, they do not know. Yes. That is the defect. (break) Now, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that this temporary attempt to become happy-antavanta phalaṁ teṣām—it will end with the end of the body. But they do not know beyond this. Therefore alpam-medhasām, they are less intelligent. Just like a child playing. He likes to play and does not go to school. So do you think that is all right?

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Indian man (3): Yes. I mean they have lost their self-respect for that.

Prabhupāda: No consideration. They are actually like cats and dogs. This is going on. (break) Nobody knows what is soul; nobody knows what is the goal of life; nobody knows what is the necessity of the soul. These things are not discussed, neither they know it. So-called religious institution or so-called..., they do not know. It is only mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, and that... They do not take care of this Bhagavad-gītā. They manufacture their own ways of...

Indian man (3): Is there any other books before Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Vedas there are. Yes. But what is the purpose of Veda? The purpose of Veda is to understand God.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: No, Nehru, he was searching after some big post. That's all. All these political agitators, they want the big post, that's all. You give them big post, and they will be satisfied. They will no more agitate. Political agitators means they want some prize post from the government. That's all. Make them some minister, and they will be no more agitator.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But he is considered to be very religious man in the eyes of the masses.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nehru.

Prabhupāda: Nehru?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I know one Gujarati school, they have a book. And in the book it is taught that Gandhi, Nehru…

Prabhupāda: That is propaganda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is propaganda.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you want to make mass communication, you can do anything. (break) Due to industrialization, all intelligent men, they came in the city. In the village it was deserted. So there was no improvement in the village, and people preferred to come to the city, means industry, business. So India's basic principle was village life. Now that is lost. The intelligent class men, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they left villages for earning more money in the cities, and only the śūdras, less intelligent class of men, less than śūdras, they remained. So what they will do? So village became deserted. Still you’ll go and see in Indian villages, especially in Bengal, so many big, big palatial buildings, they are lying vacant.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the villages?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the proprietor left and the poor cultivators, śūdras, they are accustomed to live in cottages. India's civilization was based on village residence. They would live very peacefully in the villages. In the evening there would be bhagavata-kathā. They will hear. That was Indian culture. They had no artificial way of living, drinking tea, and meat-eating and wine and illicit sex. No. Everyone was religious and satisfied by hearing—what we are just introducing—Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Purāṇas, and live simple life, keeping cows, village life as it is exhibited by Kṛṣṇa, Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa, if He liked, He could have lived in the cities. (pause) So the education was meant for teaching people to hate everything Indian.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: There was no Indian leader. That was occupied by the Mohammedans. They were deteriorating. Yes. Besides that, Indian mass of people, they were never trained to become nationalist. They thought, “Let anyone become king. It doesn’t matter. We… Let us live peacefully, and whatever due tax we shall pay. That's all.” When the Mohammedans came the people did not think that these are foreigners. "It does not matter, Mohammedan, Hindu." But they did not think so far that gradually it will deteriorate. Even Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has favored the British government because they did not interfere with the religious affair.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (entering car) Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Over the Muslims.

Prabhupāda: No, Britishers. The Muslims interfered. They wanted to propagate Islamism. Not all, some of them. But Britishers, although they were spreading Christianism, still, outwardly they were neutral about religious affairs. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura preferred that "Britishers are good. They do not interfere with our religious affair." So the idea is that India—you may say primitive or whatever you want—they wanted to make progress of the soul. They did not care who is ruling. So "Whatever tax is due we shall pay. Let us do our own business." That was India's attitude. They never thought in terms of nationalism. That was never educated. They were never educated.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Reporter: But what message would you give to people in terms of helping people, perhaps, to live better lives?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if the basic principle is wrong, then all their plans for becoming happy is also wrong. So he does not know what is the important factor. So when he comes to know that he is not this body, he is spirit soul—he studies what is the nature of the spirit soul, what is the necessity of the spirit soul—then he becomes happy. If he is under misconception... Suppose if I take you, Mr. Singer, as the coat, and I take care of the coat and not of you, person, then is that very good proposal? So that is going on. They are taking care of the shirt and coat, not the person who is putting on the shirt and coat. This is the mistake of the modern civilization. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an attempt to correct it, not theoretically, but by scientifically, by philosophically, economically, religiously, everything. Therefore we have got so many books. We are trying to distribute, enlighten people. This is our business. Then people will be happy. Unless one who knows "what I am, and what is my business, what is my aim of life," then how he can be happy? Just like a dog is jumping here and there, here and there, but he does not know what is the aim of life, so if we do not come to the spiritual platform, that we remain animal like cats and dogs, then what is the civilization of cats and dogs? If you keep the dogs as dog and if you ask some of them to come together and make a peace formula, is it possible the dogs will be able to make any peace formula? Because they are dogs, they will go on barking. That's all. So we are attempting so many peace formula, but we are keeping the consciousness on the body, exactly like the dog. And therefore there is no peace. There cannot be any peace. First of all you must come to the real platform, the living force, what is that spirit soul, what is the necessity, what is the aim. That you do not know.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: And nature has made the woman's face so attractive, beautiful, their breast, their hips, attractive, their sound, talking, singing, all very attractive, walking, and now they are dressing naked. They are showing simply the vagina, all other parts of the body clothed. This is going on. Whole thing is based on sex life, and that is tuccham, most abominable. Prakṛtiṁ mohinīṁ śritāḥ. It will take three hundred times births to understand that this sex life is abominable. Therefore it is bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Not that immediately, simply by hearing our Bhagavad-gita lecture, they will give it up. It will take many, many births to understand. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. In the Vedic system, sex life is allowed only for begetting children. Therefore they are... Restriction. Allowed, but with great restriction under religious rules and regulation and so many things, garbhādāna. Then the first principle is, even it is taken for begetting child, it is not secret.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But these demons, Prabhupāda, they pose themselves as being very religious. They pose themselves as being very religious.

Prabhupāda: How they are religious?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They cite scripture.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) The scripture is also devilish. What is these marks?

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: He says that you cannot bring life, but you can bring death immediately. Why is that?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Death? He's already dead. What you can bring? Rascal, don't you see that he is already dead? If you have to bring something you have to bring life. Death is already there. (dog barking, woman yelling) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) Bhāgavata has analyzed, yasyātmā-buddhi kunape tri-dhātuke. And this is the beginning of mistake, taking this body as everything and then bodily issues, bodily... Sva-dhiḥ kalātrādiṣu. And because I have got relation with some woman... There are thousands and millions of women, but because I have got bodily relation with some woman, I am so much attracted. That is due to the body. Actually I am not attracted to the woman. There are many millions of women, but that particular woman, wife, because I have got bodily relation with her, I think, "Oh, she is mine." Sva-dhiḥ kalātrādiṣu. Kalātrādiṣu, beginning from kalātra, then go on—children, grandchildren, father-in-law, mother-in-law, this one, this one. The beginning is the kalātra. If there is no kalātra, there is no father-in-law, mother-in-law. So sva-diḥ kalātrādiṣu. Then bhauma idya-dhiḥ—"This is my country. I am national," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this." Why? The body has grown from this land. You see, every, the whole world activities is going on on this basis. Sva-dhiḥ kalātrādiṣu bhauma idya-dhiḥ. Idya. Idya means worshipable. The brain is full with this idea, dhiḥ. Dhiḥ means buddhi. The brain is congested with all these ideas. Then he wants to become a religious man. What is that? Now, bhauma idya-dhiḥ. Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile. He goes to some holy place and takes bath. They go to Hardwar. The same Ganges in Calcutta, and the same Ganges in Hardwar, but he will go to Hardwar to take bath so that he may think that "I have come to some holy place." The holy place is Ganges, but Calcutta is not holy place and Hardwar is holy. Yes. Bhauma idya-dhiḥ. Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile. Actually Hardwar or Vṛndāvana, such places are meant to see great saintly persons, to take some knowledge from them.

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Harikeśa: So actually the one thing that makes Kṛṣṇa consciousness different from other religious processes is the practical application of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Full knowledge, perfect knowledge. And other religious systems, they have no knowledge. They say of God something but they do not know what is God. We know what is God and who is God. That is the difference.

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Hm. So how to explain, everyone is acting. How he is acting, on the field, that is stated next verse. Field of activities. In English it is called field of activity. That field of activity is this body. According to the body one begins his... Just like one born in the dog's body so the dog care... They, from the very beginning they are searching after a master. You have seen the small?

Hari-śauri: Pup.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They follow, some gentleman. And because at that time it is good living, somebody takes charge, "Alright let me take this pup." And the children also like, so he gets some shelter. So similarly, according to different body the activities begins. Therefore body is the field of activities. A snake, because he has got the field of activity of a snake's body, from the very beginning he is very, very envious. The same, trying to bite others. In this way our activities begin according to the body. And this change of bodies take place in the lower animal life automatically, by nature's law. Prakṛte kriyamānāni guṇai karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ. But when comes to the form of a human being, on account of developed consciousness, he has got responsibility. He has to make his choice. He is suffering in this material world changing different types of bodies, one after another, and the propensity to lord it over the material world is going on. Now he has to change the consciousness, whether he wants to continue this propensity for lording over the material world, or he wants to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This choice has to be made by the human being. If he makes his choice after getting good education from the right source, that "I am going on in the wrong way, by the desire to lord it over the material nature but I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa therefore I must surrender now. Bahūnā janmanām ante jñānavān mām... This is wisdom. And if we do not get this wisdom, simply like animals we continue to lord it over the material nature, by acquiring money. Dharma, artha, kama. Then we are spoiling our life. Separate times we become religious for being promoted to higher standard of life, economic development, big, big scheme, plans, how to make gorgeous city, buildings, roads, cars, slaughter house, scientific, how to cut throat very scientifically. These plans are going on. Some of them are trying to be religious to go to the heaven because he has heard, and that's a fact also, that heavenly planets the standard of living is more opulent, hundreds and thousands times, the sex enjoyment, is hundred and thousand times better. So by so-called religious functions and sacrifices, they are engaged the same, how to satisfy the senses. The dog is also anxious to satisfy his senses. As soon as he finds a female dog, he wants to make friendship with her and have sex. On the street, never mind. And similarly the demigods they are also engaged in the same business. In a different standard only. The business is the same. Āhāra-nidr-bhayam etam. So if one wants to continue this business then he'll continue this material body and if he wants to stop this business, come to his original position, then he makes real progress. But nobody is interested in advancement of spiritual life. Generally they take to religion, religiosity, for material happiness. Artho 'rhati. I am distressed, I have no money, or I am suffering from some disease; you'll find all these. So all of them go to the sādhus only for this purpose. Sir, I am suffering from some disease, so without going to the doctor, and saving so much money, let me pay hundred rupees to the sādhu and he'll give me his blessings.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: That yuddhe must be also religious. Not...

Prabhupāda: Yuddha... Everything must be religious. Why yuddha? Your ordinary living must be also religious. Otherwise animal. Animal also lives. But if you don't live religiously, that is animal. Dharmena hena paśave sa. If you live like animal, then you are animal. If you live like human being, that human being means dharma. We cannot expect any dharma in the animal society. It is meant for the humans. (someone gives Prabhupāda something) Hm, thank you. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that a flower without smell and a man without education—the same thing. A flower without smell, similarly, a man without education.