Real knowledge is to...

Expressions researched:
"real knowledge is to"

BG Chapters 13 - 18

And Kṛṣṇa explicitly says here that real knowledge is to know that the Supersoul is the controller of both the field of activities and the finite enjoyer.

BG 13.3, Purport: The body consists of the senses. The Supreme Lord is Hṛṣīkeśa, Which means "the controller of the senses." He is the original controller of the senses, just as the king is the original controller of all the activities of the state; the citizens are secondary controllers. The Lord says, "I am also the knower." This means that He is the superknower; the individual soul knows only his particular body. In the Vedic literature, it is stated as follows:

kṣetrāṇi hi śarīrāṇi

bījaṁ cāpi śubhāśubhe

tāni vetti sa yogātmā

tataḥ kṣetra-jña ucyate

This body is called the kṣetra, and within it dwells the owner of the body and the Supreme Lord, who knows both the body and the owner of the body. Therefore He is called the knower of all fields. The distinction between the field of activities, the knower of activities, and the supreme knower of activities is described as follows. Perfect knowledge of the constitution of the body, the constitution of the individual soul, and the constitution of the Supersoul is known in terms of Vedic literature as jñāna. That is the opinion of Kṛṣṇa. To understand both the soul and the Supersoul as one yet distinct is knowledge. One who does not understand the field of activity and the knower of activity is not in perfect knowledge. One has to understand the position of prakṛti (nature), puruṣa (the enjoyer of nature) and īśvara (the knower who dominates or controls nature and the individual soul). One should not confuse the three in their different capacities. One should not confuse the painter, the painting and the easel. This material world, which is the field of activities, is nature, and the enjoyer of nature is the living entity, and above them both is the supreme controller, the Personality of Godhead. It is stated in the Vedic language (in the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 1.12), bhoktā bhogyaṁ preritāraṁ ca matvā/ sarvaṁ proktaṁ tri vidham-brahmam etat. There are three Brahman conceptions: prakṛti is Brahman as the field of activities, and the jīva (individual soul) is also Brahman and is trying to control material nature, and the controller of both of them is also Brahman, but He is the factual controller.

In this chapter it will also be explained that out of the two knowers, one is fallible and the other is infallible. One is superior and the other is subordinate. One who understands the two knowers of the field to be one and the same contradicts the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who states here very clearly, "I am also the knower of the field of activity." One who misunderstands a rope to be a serpent is not in knowledge. There are different kinds of bodies, and there are different owners of the bodies. Because each individual soul has his individual capacity for lording it over material nature, there are different bodies. But the Supreme also is present in them as the controller. The word ca is significant, for it indicates the total number of bodies. That is the opinion of Śrīla Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supersoul present in each and every body apart from the individual soul. And Kṛṣṇa explicitly says here that real knowledge is to know that the Supersoul is the controller of both the field of activities and the finite enjoyer.

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures

Even a man is in the modes of goodness, that is also considered as ignorance because real knowledge, real knowledge is to know his relationship with the Supreme Lord.

Lecture on BG 5.14-22 -- New York, August 28, 1966: Svabhāva. Svabhāva means "his own nature." We are accustomed to the three modes of nature. Some of us are under the spell of the modes of goodness, and some of us under the spell of the modes of passion, and some of us are in the modes of ignorance. So according to our own position in relationship with the modes of nature we create our work. Nādatte kasyacit pāpam...

nādatte kasyacit pāpaṁ

na caiva sukṛtaṁ vibhuḥ

ajñānenāvṛtaṁ jñānaṁ

tena muhyanti jantavaḥ

[Bg. 5.15]

Now, here everyone is addressed as jantu. Jantu means animals. Of course, in logic also, human being is called rational animal. They are classified among the animals, but they are called rational animals So here also, in the Bhagavad-gītā, the Lord says, jantavaḥ. Jantavaḥ is the plural number of jantu. Jantu means animal. So nādatte kasyacit pāpam. A... Somebody is engaged in the activities of sinful activities, but he is not induced by the Lord that he should be engaged in sinful activities. Similarly, somebody is engaged in virtuous activities. So that virtuous activity is according to his own, I mean to say, association with the modes of material nature. Ajñānena āvṛtaṁ jñānaṁ tena muhyanti jantavaḥ [Bg. 5.16]. But in this material world, either in the modes of ignorance or in the modes of passion or in the modes of goodness, they are all... Total, sum total, is ignorance. Sum total... Even a man is in the modes of goodness, that is also considered as ignorance because real knowledge, real knowledge is to know his relationship with the Supreme Lord. That is real knowledge. Unless one is elevated to that position, that what is his relation with the Supreme Lord, then all his so-called knowledge is also understood as ignorance.

The real knowledge is to know "What I am, what is this body, why I am suffering.

Lecture on BG 13.1-2 -- Bombay, September 25, 1973: Generally, they are thinking this body is all in all there is no rebirth. No. The example is given here in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like a child has his future, another body, boyhood body. The boy has got his future, another body, young man's body. The young man has got another future, old man's body. Similarly the old man has got another body after death. Tatha dehāntara-praptiḥ.

But people have become so irresponsible that they do not know what kind of body he's going to get next life. He's blind. Therefore this knowledge is required, how I'm getting this body, how I can get better body or lower body. This is knowledge, not that how to eat, how to sleep, and how to have sex life. This is not knowledge there in the animals. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. Where to find out one's food, where to sleep, how to have sex life, how to defend, these animals also, they know how to do it. So if we devote our time only for these four principles of bodily wants, then we are not better than the cats and dogs. The real knowledge is to know "What I am, what is this body, why I am suffering. I want to be happy but why sufferings are there, always some kind of suffering is always there." These are the questions. But people have become so foolish they do not inquire how to make solution of these sufferings, how to make solution of the problems of life. They are blindly being led.

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānas

te 'pīṣa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ

[SB 7.5.31]

Durāśayā, they are hoping something, that by making arrangement in this material world they will be happy. That is not possible.

Real knowledge is to inquire about the Absolute Truth.

Lecture on BG 13.1-2 -- Bombay, September 25, 1973: Those who are addicted to commit sins, they are all mūḍhas. They do not know. So therefore, because they are mūḍhas and because they are duṣkṛtina, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. The mūḍhas and the duṣkṛtinas, sinful men, they cannot understand. Therefore you'll find generally those who are too much lowborn, without any knowledge, without any pious activities, they are all atheist, godless. They cannot understand. How they will understand? Because they are mūḍhas, narādhama. Narādhama means this life, human life, is an opportunity to understand how things are going on. But they do not take advantage. Narādhama, lowest of the mankind. Then you go to the learned, learned, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ, the so-called learned B.A.C., D.H.C., P.H.C., what is their learning? Simply the same thing. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna: How to eat, how to sleep. Their learning, their education, is meant for how to eat, how to sleep. That's all. So that is also dog's business. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Real knowledge is, education is, how things are going on within this nature. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. So they are not interested in these things. Education means "How to get one service so that I can get salary and I may live very comfortably and my wife, my children..." The same thing, dog's business. Dog is also interested only for eating, for having sex with another female dog, and get every six months half a dozen kitties(?). Like that. This is not... Therefore, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Even they are so-called educated, their real knowledge is taken away. Real knowledge is to inquire about the Absolute Truth, athāto brahma jijñāsā. So in this way we are going on.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures

Real knowledge is to know the simple fact that "I am not this body."

Lecture on SB 7.9.8 -- Montreal, July 1, 1968: Deha means this body. And dehi means the proprietor of this body. I am the proprietor of my body, you are the proprietor of your body. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "For all the proprietors of the body"—that means for everyone who has accepted this material body, all living entities—"that is the best thing." What is that? Sadā samudvigna-dhiyṁ. And anyone who has accepted this material body, his symptom is that he is full of anxieties. This is the disease. To get this body, material body, means to remain always full of anxieties. Either you become the first-class, I mean to say, executive head, President Johnson, or an ordinary man in the Bowery Street—everyone is full of anxiety. Not only human society but also bird society, beast society—everyone. Anyone who has got this material body, he's full of anxiety. But we want to get free from anxieties. That is our aspiration.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja suggests the remedy, how to become free from anxieties. He says hitvātma-ghātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ. Ātma ghāṭam. Ātma means the soul, and ghāṭam means killing. Hitvātmā-ghāṭam gṛham andha-kūpaṁ. Andha-kūpa means blind well. Blind well... I do not know whether you have got experience. In India there are several old wells on the paddy fields and they are covered with grass. Nobody can understand that there is a well underneath this, underneath this grass. And if by mistake one comes there, he falls down, say hundred feet down. And it is covered with grass. Even if he cries, "Please save me, save me," who is going to save him? Sometimes cow and animals and men fall down in that way. If he's fortunate enough, somebody comes and rescues. Otherwise, generally, there is no rescue. Who is going to know that there is a man or there is an animal? So hitvātmā-ghāṭam andha-kūpaṁ. This material world is just like that blind well. If somebody falls down in it, it is very difficult to get out of it. Therefore it is ātmā-ghāṭam. Ātma-ghāṭam means killing the soul. How we are killing the soul? We forget that "I am spirit soul." Therefore almost every one of us is forgetful that "I am spirit soul. I am identifying with this body." And Prahlāda Mahārāja says, because we have identified with this body, therefore we are always anxious, full of anxieties. And that is the fact.

Therefore the whole process of knowledge is... I think some of my student, she is present here. She asked me, "What is knowledge?" The knowledge is that "I am not this body." This is knowledge. Knowledge does not mean that how you can manufacture nuclear weapon. That is not knowledge. That is illusion. Real knowledge is to know the simple fact that "I am not this body." That's all. But that knowledge is very rare. And to acquire that knowledge, there are so many systems. That system is called self-realization. There is yoga system, there is jñāna system, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, karma-yoga. There are so many yoga systems simply to come to the platform of this knowledge that "I am not this body." And as soon as one comes to this platform that "I am not this body," then what happens to him? Brahma-bhūtaḥ, self-realization. And what is that self-realization? What is the symptom? How I can understand that one is self-realized? Prasannātmā. He's jolly. (laughter) The... So long we do not come to that platform of knowledge, we are full of anxieties. And as soon as we come to the platform of knowledge that "I am not this body," the immediate symptom is joyfulness, prasannātmā.

Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures

Real knowledge is to—that will be explained—to be induced to give some service to the Lord.

Lecture on CC Madhya-lila 20.101 -- Washington, D.C., July 6, 1976: Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Translation: Out of Your causeless mercy, You have delivered me from the materialistic path. Now, by the same causeless mercy, please tell me what my duty is."

Prabhupāda:

kṛpā kari' yadi more kariyācha uddhāra

āpana-kṛpāte kaha 'kartavya' āmāra

So service of Kṛṣṇa is not idleness. There are different methods of spiritual realization, especially jñāna and yoga. That is all right, but actual process of self-realization is service. If you speculate to know about God... You can do so, but after knowing God, if you do not know what God desires you to do, then such kind of knowledge is simply waste of time. That is, you may, of course... That is not real knowledge. Real knowledge is to—that will be explained—to be induced to give some service to the Lord. In the beginning, this is called śānta-rasa, to understand the greatness of God, "God is great."

So we can discuss about the greatness of God, but next stage is that "God is so great, why not let me render some service unto the Supreme, the great?" That is one step forward. Simply to know "God is great and I am engaged in my own occupational duty," there is no symptom of love. Symptom of love means when one is eager to render some service to the beloved. That is love. Simply I love you and you love me, formality, but there is no service, that is not real love. Real love begins as it is stated in the śāstra, dadāti pratigṛhṇāti: to give something to the lover, to the beloved, and to take something. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate: to accept some eatables from your beloved, and offer him something for eating. Bhuṅkte bhojayate. Guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. And you disclose your mind; there is no secrecy between the lover and the beloved. And the other party also discloses. In this way, love becomes manifest. And our business in this human life, as recommended by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, premā pumartho mahān. The highest achievement of life is to be situated on the loving platform with God. That is the highest perfection.

General Lectures

Real knowledge is to know oneself. That is being taught by Sanātana Gosvāmī, that "I do not know what I am. I am simply identifying myself with this body. That is not real knowledge."

Lecture on Teachings of Lord Caitanya -- Seattle, September 25, 1968:

Girl: "Teachings to Sanātana Gosvāmī."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Read it.

Girl: "In the instructions of Lord Caitanya to Sanātana Gosvāmī we can understand the science of God in the matter of His transcendental form, His opulences, and His devotional service, where everything is being described to Sanātana Gosvāmī by the Lord Himself. By that time Sanātana fell at the feet of the Lord and in great humility asked about his own real identity."

Prabhupāda: Read little slowly so that..., and loudly, so that others can hear.

Girl: "He spoke as follows. 'I am born of a lower family. My associations are all abominable and I am fallen. The most wretched of mankind, I was suffering in the dark well of material enjoyment, and I never knew the actual goal of my life. I do not know what is beneficial to me. Although in the mundane sphere I am what is known as a great learned man, I am in fact so much of a fool that I even accept that I am learned.' "

Prabhupāda: "I am...? I am so much fool that I accept...?" What is that?

Girl: "...that I am learned."

Prabhupāda: "I am learned." Now, this Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was formerly known as Dabira Khāsa. He was born in a high aristocratic family, brāhmaṇa family, and he was finance minister in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah, the then Bengal governor of Bengal. It is about five hundred years ago India was governed by the Pathans, Muslims, and in Bengal the governor was known as Nawab Hussain Shah. Under his government this Dabira Khāsa was minister of finance, and his brother also, Sākara Mallika, he was also a departmental minister. So both the brothers were in very high position. They were great scholar in Sanskrit and Parsi, Urdu. Parsi, Urdu, you know the language spoken in Arabia, in that part of the world. So they were very good scholar and born in very aristocratic family and associated with rich men, aristocratic persons. Because they were ministers, no ordinary person could mix with them. So that was their position. And when they met Lord Caitanya, they decided to retire from the service and propagate the movement of Lord Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So he resigned from the service. The Nawab was very much sorry. He did not like that he should resign from the service because the Nawab was so much dependent on his good service. But he decided that "I must resign." So some way or other he got rid of the service and approached Lord Caitanya in a very humble way. Now he's presenting himself before Lord Caitanya that "I am very low born, and my association is abominable. And people call me a very learned man, and I also accept that I am very learned man. But actually, I am not, because I do not know what I am." It is very nice picture, you see? In the Vedas the injunction is that if anyone wants to understand the transcendental science, he must approach to a bona fide person or a spiritual master in such humbleness as Sanātana Gosvāmī is approaching. He is born of a very high aristocratic family, but he says that "I am born very low." He's very learned man, but he says that "People say me learned man, but actually I am not." Just the position. So why he's saying that? That will be explained. Because actual learning means to know oneself. That is real knowledge. This knowledge that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am born of this family," "I am father of this person," "husband of that lady," and this and that, so many designations, that is not real knowledge. Real knowledge is to know oneself. That is being taught by Sanātana Gosvāmī, that "I do not know what I am. I am simply identifying myself with this body. That is not real knowledge." He's presenting in that way. Read next.

Girl: "You have accepted me as Your servant and You have delivered me from the entanglement of material life. Now You can tell me what my duty is in this liberated state of life."

Prabhupāda: Now he, he was a minister. Now he thinks that after resigning this service he's feeling liberated. Because he hasn't got to obey somebody who is a materialistic person, therefore he's thinking liberated. And he's asking Caitanya Mahāprabhu, whom he has accepted as his master, "Now You have liberated me. Now You can say what is my duty." Go on.

Girl: "In other words, as we see by this plea, liberation is not the final word in perfection."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is one point. He says that "You have liberated me. Now let me know what is my duty." This is very important point. The Māyāvādī philosopher, they think that liberation is the ultimate goal. Just like in Buddha philosophy, the nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means annihilation of material existence. Nirvāṇa. They think that as soon as there is annihilation of this material existence, that is the final goal. The Māyāvādī philosopher or the impersonalist, they think that not only to get freedom from this material existence, but to remain in spiritual status, jñānam, simply in the knowledge that "I am spirit soul. I am merged into the spirit soul," that is their goal. But here, the Sanātana Gosvāmī, he belongs to the Vaiṣṇava philosophy. He says, "Now what is my duty?" That means after liberation it is not that everything is void or activity is stopped. No. Actually activity begins after liberation. At the present moment our activities are not liberated activities. At the present moment all our activities are conditional, but actually I am not... Because I am spirit soul, therefore I'm not under material condition. But somehow or other, I am now put into material conditions. This is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. When one is actually liberated, brahma-bhūtaḥ, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. When one is not liberated he's called jīva-bhūtaḥ. Just like we are, ordinary living entities, we are under designations, and in the concept of this body, we are thinking everything. But actually I am not this body. I am not matter. I am a spirit soul. When this understanding comes, that is the point of liberation. And after that liberation, actual duty begins.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Real knowledge is to be given to the younger section. Older section, it is not possible.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hasti-snāna. Therefore, knowledge giving, that is the beginning of spiritual life. Kṛṣṇa gives Arjuna, knowledge giving, that "You are not this body." This is the beginning of knowledge. What is that knowledge, all over the world? Where is that university? This preliminary knowledge which Kṛṣṇa begins, Bhagavad-gītā, where is that university? Svarūpa Dāmodara, where is that chemical laboratory or university?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is none in the universities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is the position of your education. There is no knowledge, and you are simply advertising, "Advancement of knowledge, university, PhD's, Nobel Prize holder." But they are all rascals. Fools' paradise. It is called, fools' paradise.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If the scientists know that we are not this body, then definitely the whole outlook will be changed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we want to do.

Paramahaṁsa: They don't want to admit their failure.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. If you are a fool and if you want to pose yourself as intelligent, that is another foolishness. You cannot make progress. Stubborn dogs. If you are seeking after knowledge, you must take the right knowledge. That is intelligence. And if you want to remain in ignorance and advertise yourself that "I am man of knowledge," how much cheater you are! You are cheating yourself and cheating others. That is going on. We want to stop this.

Paramahaṁsa: Just like many of our devotees, we experienced when we tried to preach to our parents, because they are much older, to admit that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the right path in life, means to also admit that they have wasted their entire life.

Prabhupāda: Real knowledge is to be given to the younger section. Older section, it is not possible. They will have to forget first of all, what they have learned. That they cannot. Therefore it is impossible. Therefore knowledge begins from the school children, not from the man who is going to die. (laughing) That is not... Impractical. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān: [SB 7.6.1] "Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from the very childhood." Not that at the time of death. That is not possible. Therefore our students, they are all young generation, they capture. These rascals, they cannot. Old fools, they cannot. There was a practical examination. One father and one daughter, both appeared for BA examination in India. The daughter passed and the father failed. It was in the newspaper. In old age they cannot take any lessons. They forget.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Real knowledge is to see everywhere Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- January 15, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: They are rascals. Therefore I always say, "Kick them on their face with your shoes, so-called scientists." "Accident." There is no question of accident. Mūḍha. Therefore they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍhāḥ, rascals, narādhama. Narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. Because they got this opportunity to appreciate the work of Kṛṣṇa, but they avoid it, they are narādhama. No, they are so big, big graduate, scientists, and..." māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Their real knowledge is taken away, simply childish proposing something, so-called scientists. Real knowledge is to see everywhere Kṛṣṇa, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. The supervision of Kṛṣṇa. That is real knowledge. Not only to appreciate, but to explain it also. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī will appreciate, but cannot explain how it is being done. Madhyama-adhikārī will explain. That is preacher. And uttama-adhikārī, he thinks that everyone knows, everyone knows. He does not see that somebody knows, somebody does not know. He sees everyone knows. That is uttama-adhikārī. He does not make any distinction.

Bali Mardana: He does not preach.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No. He's paramahaṁsa. Does not preach means he preaches, but he comes to the second-class platform. The first-class platform means he does not make any distinction between devotee and nondevotee. He sees everyone is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service.

Bali Mardana: Does he consciously come from the first-class to second-class.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like Jesus Christ says that there was many things to be said by, by...

Bali Mardana: "There are many things, but I can, but you cannot, I have to tell you, but you cannot bear them now."

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that means he's first-class, but he comes to the second-class platform or third-class platform to teach the third-class, second-class person. He's first class. Son of God cannot be second-class or third-class. He must be first-class. But... Just like Lord Buddha. He's God Himself, but He said nothing about God because he knew that "These rascals, they will not be able to... Let them stop meat-eating, that's all. Let them become sinless first of all; then they will be able..." So his main preaching was ahiṁsā, non-violence, no meat-eating. But still, they violate that. Jesus Christ also preached, "Thou shall not kill," but these rascals, all violating. And still, they are proclaiming as Christian and Buddhist. No religion will, real religion, will allow this kind of violence, no religion. It is cheating religion. Dharmaḥ kaitavaḥ: Any religion committing unnecessary violence to the animals, (it is) third-class. It is not religion, it is cheating. Simply cheating.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

So our process of understanding real knowledge is to take it from the person who has the real knowledge.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Yes, right. The goal of life is realization of transcendence. So, that they are forgetting. They have made their goal of life as sense gratification. (translated into Spanish by Hṛdayānanda)

Professor: What kind of transcendence would that be?

Prabhupāda: Transcendence means the Absolute Truth. What do you mean by transcendence?

Professor: By transcendence, I understand it, the universal consciousness. The search for God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, right you are. This life, human life, is distinguished from animal life because the animal cannot inquire about transcendence. The human life, if it is not interested in transcendence, then he is animal. If simply he is interested with the bodily demands of life, namely eating, sleeping, sex and defense, these are bodily demands of life. So if we think that "Dog is eating on the street, and we are eating very palatable dishes, nicely made, very tasteful. That is advancement of civilization," that is not advancement of civilization because it is, after all, eating. Similarly, sleeping; the animals sleep on the street and we sleep in very nice apartment. But in sleeping, we dream horrible things more than the animals. So eating, sleeping, sex life and trying for defense, these are common formulas both for the animals and for the man. Therefore a human being is distinguished from the animal when he enquires about transcendence. And that is explained in the great literature Brahma-sūtra, or the philosophy of Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now we have got this human form of life. We must enquire about the Brahman, or transcendence." So our bodily necessities of life should be simplified as much as it is required. We must save time for enquiring about transcendence. So unless we enquire about the transcendence, then we are two-legged animals. This is culture, this is the aim of life.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that in European history many, many people, in the name of looking for transcendence, there have been so many wars, hatred between men, and, you may know, in Spain they had what is called the Inquisition where they burned so many people. And so he's saying, psychologically, that his brain tells him that in the name of searching after transcendence there has been so much bad, so how is this different?

Prabhupāda: The difference is transcendence is beyond our mind, bodily activities, mental activities or intelligence. The European philosophers and transcendentalists, they do not know actually what is transcendence. They understand that there is something, but they do not know what it is. Therefore they speculate by their imperfect senses. Gradually it becomes craziness. Therefore you find that defect.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): So do you mean to say that this is just a contemplative thing that doesn't really have a active influence upon the society to change the different...?

Prabhupāda: No, we must first of all understand that our senses are imperfect. Just like we are sitting in this room. We have got our eyes, but we cannot see what is there, going on, beyond this wall. The sun is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth, and we are seeing just like a disc. So the eyelid is just near the eyes, but we cannot see what is the eyelids. If the light is off, we cannot see. So we can see under certain condition. Then what is the value of our seeing? If we, even if we manufacture telescope, that is also manufactured by the imperfect senses, so it is also not perfect. So anything understood by manipulating our imperfect senses, that is not real knowledge. So our process of understanding real knowledge is to take it from the person who has the real knowledge. Just like if we contemplate or speculate who is my father, it is never possible to understand who is my father. But if we receive the words from mother that "Here is your father," that is perfect. Therefore the process of knowledge should be not to speculate but to receive it from the perfect person. If we receive knowledge from a mental speculator, that is not perfect knowledge.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

So everything is fact. But the real knowledge is to find out the source of the fact.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Dayānanda: What is the atomic theory?

Hṛdayānanda: Atomic... That everything is constituted of different atoms, and the ultimate truth is the atomic particle, and by different combinations of these particles, different material manifestations are produced, and there's no other cause except this endless combining of atomic particles.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the atom comes?

Hṛdayānanda: The atom is the eternal fact. It is inconceivable or it's unexplainable where it has come from.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of your explaining? Then you prove yourself you are a rascal. Inexplicable? Why you are trying to explain?

Guru-kṛpā: "We're not explaining. We're just accepting it's a fact."

Prabhupāda: So everything is fact. But the real knowledge is to find out the source of the fact. That is real knowledge. Just like if we ask any gentleman—at least in India—for your identification, your father's name is required, your name of the village is required. If you go to the court, then such and such; father's name, such and such; village, this; religion, this; like this.... So father.... Why father's name? "What is the source of your existence? Wherefrom you are coming?" "I am coming from this family." So that is knowledge. Atom.... Atomic theory is there in Vedic conception, paramāṇuvāda. Kaṇada, the great sage, Kaṇada, he gave this theory, Kaṇada. Paramāṇuvāda. Paramāṇuvād. Paramāṇuvāda is accepted in Vedic philosophy also. But we know what is this paramāṇu also. Just like the sunshine. What is the sunshine? A combination of shining atoms. But we can see it is coming from the sun, incessantly coming. We can see. We can, immediately say, "This is.... The source is the sun." Similarly, the paramanu, the atoms, they are incessantly coming out. But wherefrom it is coming?