Real knowledge (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"real knowledge"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: But in the Bhagavad-gītā, it may be taken as higher mathematics. That's all.

Caller: You know, may I ask you one thing, I read some parts of the Bhagavad-gītā is it? And it said that knowledge is enveloped in ignorance, hence all men are deluded.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Caller: And I thought that was a profound...

Prabhupāda: Real, our real knowledge is covered by delusion.

Caller: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the real knowledge is that I am spirit.

Caller: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But we are identifying ourself with this body. Therefore we are covered in our knowledge, actual knowledge.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: They are taking account of... 360 degree, the whole circle. They are taking account only 180 degree. And other 180 degree they're making void. But actually, the whole point is 360 degree. That is geomatrical calculation. If you simply know 180 degree, then the other 180 degree is unknown to you. So real life, real variety, real beauty, real knowledge, everything in reality is there in the spiritual world. It is only reflection. Therefore Bhāgavata explains that janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme Absolute Truth is cognizant, abhijñaḥ. Cognizant and svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. In this way, the explanation of Brahma-sūtra is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yad vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yasmin paramahaṁsam ekaṁ paraṁ jñānam jñeyate. The knowledge of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is to be understood by the paramahaṁsa, the highest perfected man, paramahaṁsa. It is not ordinary thing.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is liberation. Janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). To understand Kṛṣṇa... Nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa, but still, to such an extent, if one can understand Him, then he immediately becomes liberated. Immediately. And not to speak of developing his love of Kṛṣṇa, simply by knowledge, by real knowledge, if one understands Kṛṣṇa, that is sufficient to make him liberated. And those who are devotees, for them liberation is very insignificant. Muktir mukulitāñjaliḥ sevate 'sman.

Guest (1): On the first day of this inauguration, and there were definitions about karma-yoga.

Prabhupāda: Oh, the governor. (laughter) Just see. He is speaking of karma-yoga. Slaughtering ten thousand cows, that is karma-yoga. This nonsense speaking of karma-yoga.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: According to Bhagavad-gītā, there are four classes of men who deride at God and four classes of men who approaches God.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Atheist class of men, who are always engaged in sinful activities, and therefore fools... They don't believe in the next life. Therefore they are fools. There is next life. They say, "Oh, we don't care for next life. Let us do whatever we like." That is a foolish proposition. Because there is next life. Just like a man he becomes irresponsible. He says, "I don't care for government or law. I can do whatever I like." That means he's risking his life. As soon as he'll be arrested, he'll be punished. Therefore he's mūḍha, rascal. Anyone who is defying the kingdom of God, he's a rascal. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Narādhamāḥ, is lowest of the mankind. God consciousness is meant for human beings, and if a person defies God, then he's the lowest of the mankind. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. His knowledge has been plundered by the illusory energy. He may be academically a very big title holder, but if he's not God conscious, then his knowledge has been taken away. Real knowledge has been taken away. Asuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. These are the symptoms of the atheist class of men.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: No, no. These four castes... Not caste. We say caste, but varṇāśrama varṇa. Varṇa. Anyway, it is division. That division, vibhāga, the exact word is "division," not "caste." How you can say caste, it is not there, difference? Division, these four divisions are there. So these divisions are not made by birth. Just like if you are a lawyer. So in the society there are lawyers, engineers, medical men, they are divisions. But these lawyers, medical men or engineers, they are not born as engineer or as lawyer. That is mistake. Anyone who is qualified by the real knowledge, he is a lawyer. Not by birth. Suppose a lawyer's son, a big, big lawyer's son, does it mean that he's lawyer?

Reporter: No. But this is what we have been (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: So you have been something mistake. That should not be accepted.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: What is the nonsense scholar (laughter) if he does not know the truth? (Hindi) Māyaya apahṛta-jñānā. Scholar maybe superficially, but real knowledge is taken away by māyā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu (Hindi) māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). If people hear him, then for good he will be lost in bewilderedness. (Hindi conversation) Why do you think you are sinner? (Hindi) Our theory is not that. Kṛṣṇa is fighting, He is inducing fight against irreligiosity.

Guest: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no higher reality than Me." Are we imaginists? Kṛṣṇa says that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is nothing," I mean, "as higher reality that Me." And these people are taking Him as mūrta-vigrahaḥ, kalpanā. (Hindi)

Guest: (Hindi)

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then why don't they search for real knowledge?

Prabhupāda: Therefore, they are rascal. Why they are rascal? They will not take real knowledge. Just like children: obstinate. The father says, "Don't touch, don't touch this." But he says, "No, touch," and he touches. As soon as he touches it, he (makes noise like one in pain).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Burned.

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. They will not take the experience of Kṛṣṇa; they will manufacture their own experience. That is their folly. Therefore, they are called..., they have been addressed as mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Lowest of the mankind, mūḍhāḥ, they do not surrender (indistinct). They will not take the intelligence given by Kṛṣṇa. They will manufacture their own intelligence. This is their folly. Therefore, they are rascals. Our process is all the big ācāryas, they are taking knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, Vyāsadeva, Kṛṣṇa's representative or guru. That is our process. And they are manufacturing their own knowledge. They do not know the system; they take it as dogmatic. Just like we speak of Vaikuṇṭha from experienced knowledge. They will not believe it. But they do not know what are these planets, still they will not believe it. They cannot say anything except their home planet. Even they do not know what are the... They have not studied all the corners of this planet.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So people completely lack the real knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why they give all these books. When we started school, we are taught with these..., or we are supplied with this information right from the beginning, the history of mankind and then how this started. So they give all this information.

Prabhupāda: Stone Age. What is that, Stone Age? And before that?

Jayatīrtha: Dinosaurs.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: Before that they had dinosaurs.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) what you were speaking about yesterday, that if someone claims to be a teacher but he doesn't actually have real knowledge, then he's simply cheating.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: There's nothing practical that they say.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: They say nothing practical.

Prabhupāda: That means they do not follow any practical. That is their rascaldom. Nothing practical means they do not know what is the practical realization of God. That is their ignorance. And still they are claiming to be teachers. That is cheating. Just like these so-called scientists, they are theorizing, but they cannot practically prove. Therefore, their knowledge is imperfect. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Jñānavān, the wise, after many, many births' cultivation of knowledge, when he surrenders, that is practical. Simply knowledge is useless, theoretical. When he practically surrenders, that is end of knowledge. That is perfection.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: He's called highest. And the lowest means that he has got this body, human form of body, but he is acting like animal. Just like cats and dogs, they cannot understand what is God. So any person who is not understanding, or trying to understand what is God, he's the lowest of the mankind. Because in the human form of life, it is the chance to understand what is God, but he's misusing it. He's using this body just like cats and dogs. They eat, sleep, have sex intercourse, and die. So these things are there. But if somebody argues that you are saying lowest of the mankind but we see so many Dr. Radhakrishnans, they also do not admit. Therefore the word is used, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They appear to be very highly learned scholars but their real knowledge has been taken by māyā. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Āsuri- bhāva. Why he can remain so? Because āsuri-bhāva, there is no God. That is their determination. There is no God. Therefore their merit is being misused, they have become the lowest of the mankind. They have become the Fool No. 1 and all that so-called education, academics, knowledge has been taken away by māyā. This is... So we test only whether he's a devotee of God.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Because they're going to accept that they're all rascals? That will be the real progress. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births of rascaldom, when he comes to Kṛṣṇa and surrenders. Yes. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). He is everything. That is real knowledge. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A group of scientists are now working on the idea that before we start anything, one should think...

Prabhupāda: No, there is the latest theory. What is this, theory of ignorance? Or what is that? Theory of impossibility, or something like that?

Karandhara: Oh, theory of uncertainty?

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they're concluding, the scientists, that without having the real knowledge of their investigation. Because they are concluding that life started from matter, but there's no proof.

Prabhupāda: No proof. How they can say so? (pause) If they accept that life started from life, then they'll have to accept God, the Supreme Person. Just like by practical experience we see one life is produced by another life. The father, mother begets a child. Not that a child drops from the sky. Their test tube experiment also depends on the father and mother. So what is that? Where is the proof? In the test tube you mix some chemical and produce a child. Then your theory is all right. You cannot create even an ant, even a fly. And still you are claiming that you can manufacture human being?

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the real knowledge is taken away by ignorance?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The real knowledge...is taken away by ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then it says: andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is claiming that: "I shall lead you, other blind men."

Brahmānanda: Into the pit.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (pause) And in Bhāgavata, in one word, finishes all... Kliśyamānānām. You'll have to work hard, avidyā kāma-karmabhiḥ, by your creating so many desires. By this process, you'll have to simply work hard. That's all. Because it is ignorance. You do not know what is the goal of life. So kāma-karmabhiḥ. You desire something: "Now we shall do like this." That means you create another problem. And you have to work very hard. That's all.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So you protest, write in book. You are scientist. Write in book. Prove scientifically. That will be your laurel of taking the doctorate degree. If you also become one of these rascal doctors, then what is the use of your Kṛṣṇa consciousness that whatever they say you silently accept? No. Just become Babhruvāhana, Manipur Babhruvāhana, that the fighting is faced. Take assistance, you have got. Ask Dr. Rao to come, join. Make plan. Go from town to town, all over the world. This has to be done. There was a poetry by Rabindranath Tagore. The purport of the poetry is that one who is mischievous, he is culprit. But one who tolerates mischievous activity, he is also culprit. If you are mischievous, you are criminal. But if you tolerate mischievous activities that is also criminal. Challenge these rascals. Stop their rascal theories. They have been described in the Bhāgavata as śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The so-called modern leader, he is a paśu, animal. And who exalts them? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ: other lower animals like dogs, the hogs, śva-viḍ-varāha, camel and ass. So one big animal is being praised by these kinds of animals. So all the population without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have been described as dogs, hogs, camel and ass. So when they vote for another animal, big animal, so this is their position. They are big animal, praised by the dogs, hogs, camel and ass. They are not praised by any intelligent man. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. They are animals. These animals, they do not know the actual fact, and they are passing on as leaders, professors, scientists. Why they should be allowed? There must be some protest against these men. They have no real knowledge. They say, "I do not know," and still, they are passing as poet, er, scientist laureate. Why this should be allowed? Think over this matter seriously. You cannot tolerate this misleading. People are innocent. It is our duty to become merciful upon them, to give them real knowledge.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Real knowledge is to be given to the younger section. Older section, it is not possible. They will have to forget first of all, what they have learned. That they cannot. Therefore it is impossible. Therefore knowledge begins from the school children, not from the man who is going to die. (laughing) That is not... Impractical. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān: (SB 7.6.1) "Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from the very childhood." Not that at the time of death. That is not possible. Therefore our students, they are all young generation, they capture. These rascals, they cannot. Old fools, they cannot. There was a practical examination. One father and one daughter, both appeared for BA examination in India. The daughter passed and the father failed. It was in the newspaper. In old age they cannot take any lessons. They forget.

Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: Because of sense gratification or mind...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, they say all... Yes. The bodily functions, intelligence...,

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Blunt, intelligence becomes blunt.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have all been described as māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ: (BG 7.15) "Their real knowledge is taken away by māyā." Therefore we don't give any credit to all these rascals. Although we are very small, but we don't give any credit. We frankly say, "These are rascals, fools."

Paramahaṁsa: After the 20th...During the Industrial Revolution in the western world....

Prabhupāda: The Industrial Revolution means revolution of the śūdras. That is Industrial Revolution. Increasing the number of śūdras. These scientists, they are also śūdras. Because they have no real knowledge. Brāhmaṇa means one who has got real knowledge. Brahma-jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. And this industrial development means technologists; they are śūdras.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real knowledge, when one becomes humbler: "Oh, God is so great." That is real scientist. I think Professor Einstein, he admitted.

Mukunda: Yes, he said that "I want to know how God created the universe. Everything else is details."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that means he's still thinking, "My knowledge is imperfect because I do not know about God." That is real scientist.

Śyāmasundara: Just studying one small part of God's creation...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Śyāmasundara: ...is, is...

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No... When we speak of Veda, Veda means knowledge. So knowledge means knowledge of God. Any scripture that gives knowledge of God, that is Vedas. Don't think that Vedas means that only the Sāma, Yajuḥ, Atharva. Those who are following the principles to give knowledge about God, that is Veda. Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Vid-dhātu is called veda, vetti. Jñāne when there is question of knowledge, these three forms are used: vetti, veda, vido, jñāne. Vinte vid vicaraṇe vidyate vid saptāyāṁ labhe vindati vindate. (?) This is the vid-dhātu description. So vid-dhātu means to know. So ultimate knowledge is to know God. That is real knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. Sarvaiḥ, all kinds of Vedas. All kinds, sarvaiḥ. So Bible can be taken as Vedas because it is trying to give knowledge about God, maybe for a certain class of men. That is another thing. But the subject matter is how to know God. So that can be taken as also, as Vedas. Because ultimate knowledge is how to know God. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So we accept Bible also as Vedas, but we simply say that they misinterpret the Biblical commandments. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill," and the Christian people are killing, maintaining slaughterhouse. What is this? This is my question. How they'll understand God if they are so much implicated in sinful activities? According to Vedas, there are four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, unnecessary killing of animals, intoxication and gambling.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Pradyumna: "Māyāvādī philosophers are very proud of exhibiting their Vedānta knowledge through grammatical jugglery, but Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā certifies that they are māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15), bereft of real knowledge due to māyā. Māyā has two potencies with which to execute her two functions: prakṣepātmikā..."

Prabhupāda: Prakṣepātmikā.

Pradyumna: "...śakti, the power to throw the living entity in the ocean of material existence, and āvaraṇātmikā-śakti, the power to cover the knowledge of the living entity. The function of the āvaraṇātmikā-śakti is explained the Bhagavad-gītā by the word: māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Why the daivī-māyā, or illusory energy of Kṛṣṇa takes away the knowledge of the Māyāvādī philosophers is also explained in Bhagavad-gītā by the use of the words āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, which refer to a person who does not agree to the existence of the Lord. The Māyāvādīs, who are not in agreement with the existence of the Lord, can be classed in two groups, exemplified by the impersonalists Śaṅkarites of Vārāṇasī and the Buddhists of Saranātha. Both of them are Māyāvādīs, and Kṛṣṇa takes away their knowledge due to their atheistic philosophies. Neither of them agree to accept the existence of a personal God. The Buddhist philosophers clearly deny, clearly deny both the soul and God, and although the Śaṅkarites do not openly deny God, they say that the Absolute is nirākāra, or formless. Thus both of them are aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32), or imperfect and unclean in their knowledge and intelligence."

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

This, this is transcendental sound vibration. If you chant, then the foolish ignorance will gradually dissipate. You'll come to real knowledge. You'll be purified. In India still, there are many snake charmers. They, simply by mantra, they can get out the poison. Materially, if it is possible, how much it is possible in spiritual?

Reporter (1): Can you tell me...? There's been an awful lot in these last two years said about the Jesus Movement. How does that sort of line up with Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: I do not know what is Jesus Movement. If you can explain, then I can speak. What is that Jesus Movement, I do not know.

Reporter (1): Well, do you know very much about Jesus?

Prabhupāda: Jesus, I know.

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: These rascals, lowest of the mankind and always engaged in sinful activities, such persons do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "No. There are so many educated MA, PhD's." Kṛṣṇa says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. "Apparently they are very educated, but their real knowledge is taken away by māyā." Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. This atheistic civilization is very dangerous. People are suffering for this reason. But they are not very serious. Therefore they have been addressed by Kṛṣṇa as mūḍhāḥ, rascals. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. So we are trying a little bit to make these mūḍhas, mūḍha civilization, to come into light of spiritual life. That is our humble attempt. But it is already said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: (BG 7.3) "Out of many millions of persons, they can take to it." Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. But that does not mean we shall stop. Just like in our school, college days, Sir Asutosh Mukherjee started some higher study, post-graduate study classes in the university.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the twenties there was a doctor in Switzerland, Couet(?), who had the same method. "I'm better and better every day," and he had thousands of people who came there and nothing was heard of him ten years later.

Bali Mardana: Till he died.

Prabhupāda: "Better, better, better, I am going to die better very soon." (laughter) Therefore Kṛṣṇa has shown that "Why you are thinking, 'better,' the death is before you." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9), that is real knowledge. Real knowledge means, "How I am better?" The death is there. (break) That is real knowledge. I am going to die, I cannot stop it. You see. That is real knowledge. And if somebody thinks that I am better, although I am going to die, then he's a foolish. Better means you stop your death.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. Reality, because they do not know. They have been always been misguided by rascals. Therefore they cannot think of that there can be perfection. This is called skepticism. Because everyone is faulty, therefore there is no knowledge. This is skeptism. But real knowledge is that as I see this man is intelligent that man, that man is intelligent than that man, therefore there is an ideal intelligent man which we could not find. And that is God. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1).

Karandhara: Just like when they go and excavate a city under the ground, an old city, they see that so many things were built, and they say, "Oh, these people were very intelligent." Although they never saw the person, they saw the civilization in the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. By symptoms, by symptoms they can understand.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all. He should be intelligent. Just like we are here ten or twenty men. You accept that "He is our guru. He is most intelligent man." Similarly, somebody is more intelligent than me, somebody is more intelligent, more intelligent. Go on searching. Find out the final intelligent. That is comparative intelligence. That we know. But what is that final intelligence? That we must know. That is God. Just like the sun. If we think that beyond this sun there is no more planet, that is not correct. You cannot go beyond this sun. That is another thing. But all the planets are surrounding the sun. That everyone knows. So if there is a planet this down the sun, why not up the sun? It is common sense. This water is impersonal, but go down the water. You will find millions of persons, aquatics. Those who are seeing superficially on the surface, they have concluded, "Now finished, all personality finished. It is all vacant." That is poor fund of knowledge. Real knowledge is go deep into the water, you will find millions of creatures. They are living very nicely within the water. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayān... Even within the atom, you will find personality.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 15, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: They are rascals. Therefore I always say, "Kick them on their face with your shoes, so-called scientists." "Accident." There is no question of accident. Mūḍha. Therefore they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍhāḥ, rascals, narādhama. Narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. Because they got this opportunity to appreciate the work of Kṛṣṇa, but they avoid it, they are narādhama. No, they are so big, big graduate, scientists, and..." māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Their real knowledge is taken away, simply childish proposing something, so-called scientists. Real knowledge is to see everywhere Kṛṣṇa, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). The supervision of Kṛṣṇa. That is real knowledge. Not only to appreciate, but to explain it also. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī will appreciate, but cannot explain how it is being done. Madhyama-adhikārī will explain. That is preacher. And uttama-adhikārī, he thinks that everyone knows, everyone knows. He does not see that somebody knows, somebody does not know. He sees everyone knows. That is uttama-adhikārī. He does not make any distinction.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have got real knowledge. They have got real knowledge. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). When they have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they are really jñānī.

Dr. Patel: But some of the absolutely ignorant people, they have become, but...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We don't say, we don't speak of "some." This is the, yes, there are many...

Dr. Patel: Extremely scholastic they have become afterwards. Even though they have not gone to the school.

Prabhupāda: Just like Jīva Gosvāmī. Jīva Gosvāmī, there is no comparison of learned scholarship with him throughout the whole world. He's such a jñānī. Even great, great paṇḍitas said that "There will be no more such learned philosopher, neither there was, like Jīva Gosvāmī." Yes. We are also referring to Jīva Gosvāmī.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And in the meantime they may fall down and go to hell.

Guest (1): Yes, that is how it is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa, his so-called siddhas and these..., they are bogus. (break) "Oh, he has got so much Vedic knowledge." No. Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Even though he appears to have so much knowledge, his real knowledge has been taken away by māyā.

Chandobhai: Yes, if I sincerely love you, you will reveal yourself to me.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā in the Seventh Chapter:

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That... Yes, immediately. Because he does not accept the authority of Vedas. That is real knowledge. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam Yes, yajña, I mean to say, criticize the yajña-vidhi. Yajña-vidhi you cannot criticize. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Karma-bandhana. So yajña must go on, and the vidhi must be followed. That is real acceptance of Vedic knowledge. If you manufacture your own concoction, "This is good, this is bad," that will not help you.

Indian man (3): Vetas pi pavitranam svadhinam ca tasam api, vedanam ca na kartavyam nindha saddhya...(?)

Prabhupāda: But why he's making nindā? You don't eat, even it is... Now in the first you said, you don't..., you cannot kill animal, even if it is...

Indian man (3): I, I follow even though you said that you kill it for the sake of yajña, I am not going to kill it, that's all. That is my personal...

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, with my hands, with my legs, with my eyes, I cannot do anything except serving Kṛṣṇa. How we can do? If the eyes belong to Kṛṣṇa, then how the eyes can be used for other purpose? This is real knowledge. That is explained in the Nārada-pañcarātra: sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is nirmala. Nirmala eyes. Brahma-bhūta. That is brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20).

Dr. Patel: Sarvendriya guṇābhāsaṁ sarva-indriya vivarjitam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now...

Dr. Patel: Asaktaṁ sarva-bhūteṣu nirguṇaṁ guṇa-bhoktṛ ca.

Prabhupāda: He... He has got indriyas, indriya. Just like in the Vedas it is stated, apāṇi-pādo javano gṛhīta. "He has no hands and legs, but He takes whatever you offer." So now, that, as soon as this word is there, that "He accepts whatever you offer," that means He has got hand. Indriyābhāsa. Indriyābhāsa. But not this indriya, the three feet hand. Suppose if you offer me something. You are three feet away. I cannot take it. But Kṛṣṇa is in Vaikuṇṭha. If you offer Him, oh, He can accept. Otherwise... He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Now He is in Vaikuṇṭha and Goloka Vṛndāvana. We cannot calculate where He is. How He's taking? This is material calculation. But He has got such a hand that anywhere you live, He can accept. Otherwise, if He has no hand... Therefore "He has no hand" means He has no this little hand like me.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anthropomorphism it is called. They create a form, but that is not the fact. God has His eternal form. That I explained. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means form. And it is sac-cid-ānanda, means eternal, full of knowledge and... Just like Kṛṣṇa is speaking Bhagavad-gītā. People are accepting, because that is real knowledge. And nobody reads other books so carefully. And this Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world. All big, big scholars, big, big philosophers, theologists, they read. Because that is real knowledge. That is the proof. It is real knowledge. Cit. Sac-cid. And one who is giving real knowledge, it is natural conclusion, he has got eternal body. We cannot give real knowledge because we forget. As we change our body, we forget. Just like at night we dream, but we forget the body, this body. In another body we go to some dreamland. So because we change body therefore we forget. And because Kṛṣṇa is giving knowledge perfect, past, present and future, therefore it means that He has got eternal body. This is the proof. One should understand everything with logic. Is it not? We forget because we have no eternal body. Last birth, what I was, what you were, we have forgotten, because changed body.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That knowledge is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one understands, "Oh, here is the original source of everything," vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19), that is greatest scientist. And how this knowledge comes? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). They are struggling for the ultimate knowledge. So struggling many, many births after births, when, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, he comes to the real knowledge, then he admits, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19).

Indian Man (3): (Hindi conversation) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...and police is controlling by beating them. Now they will go to the office, and again they will come in that way. And coming home for two cāpāṭis. You see? That's all.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: He is confused because he was a kṣatriya, soldier. A soldier's duty is to fight with the enemy. So Kṛṣṇa was advising him, "The opposite party is your enemy. You are a kṣatriya. Why you are trying to become non-violent? This is not good." Therefore he says, "Actually I am now confused. So in confusion I cannot take the right conclusion. I therefore accept You as my spiritual master. You just give me the proper lesson." This is the point. So they were friends. Still, he was confused. So in chaotic condition, in confusion status of life, we must approach the person who is in full knowledge of the things. Just like you go to a lawyer, you go to a physician; similarly, every one of us in the material world, we are confused. Therefore we must go to the spiritual master who can give us real knowledge.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Then why Christ recommend, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not covet. Thou shall not do this. Thou shall not..."? They are all false thing? Now let us talk of knowledge. We have talked so many outside knowledge. What is the real knowledge? The real knowledge is that everything is the property of God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). No land belongs either to the Americans or to the Swiss people or to the Indian people or to German people. No. Everything belongs to God. And all living entities are the sons of God. So everything produced out of God's land, either on the land or in the sky or anywhere, it is God's property, and all the sons, they have the right to share. So there is no scarcity in the God's kingdom. Simply due to our mismanagement we have created so much trouble. If we accept God as the center and all living entities sons of God, then we can actually live very peacefully in God consciousness. Therefore this is the recommendation, how we can live very peacefully, all of us, both men and animal and everyone. That is said here. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of mystic. First of all we have to admit that on account of our senses being imperfect, whatever knowledge we gather, that is imperfect. That is imperfect. Therefore, if you want to possess real knowledge you have to approach somebody who is perfect. You cannot... Huh?

Guest (1): How can we know that somebody is perfect?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But first of all, the basic principle is we have to understand that our senses are imperfect, and whatever knowledge we gather by these imperfect senses, they are imperfect. So if we want perfect knowledge, then we have to approach somebody whose senses are perfect, whose knowledge is perfect. That is the principle. That is the Vedic principle. Therefore the Vedic principle says, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You know Sanskrit, yes. "In order to know that perfect knowledge, one should approach guru." So who is guru? Then the next question will be... Your question is that, "How I can?"

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No, we must first of all understand that our senses are imperfect. Just like we are sitting in this room. We have got our eyes, but we cannot see what is there, going on, beyond this wall. The sun is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth, and we are seeing just like a disc. So the eyelid is just near the eyes, but we cannot see what is the eyelids. If the light is off, we cannot see. So we can see under certain condition. Then what is the value of our seeing? If we, even if we manufacture telescope, that is also manufactured by the imperfect senses, so it is also not perfect. So anything understood by manipulating our imperfect senses, that is not real knowledge. So our process of understanding real knowledge is to take it from the person who has the real knowledge. Just like if we contemplate or speculate who is my father, it is never possible to understand who is my father. But if we receive the words from mother that "Here is your father," that is perfect. Therefore the process of knowledge should be not to speculate but to receive it from the perfect person. If we receive knowledge from a mental speculator, that is not perfect knowledge.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Well, when there is question of knowledge, only you will find a few people to get the knowledge. When you put this question, "Find out some learned scholar," generally they will be very... Their number will be very little. But one thing is that if there is one man in real knowledge, he can give the..., distribute the knowledge to many. The example is just like ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ: If you get one moon at night, that is sufficient to dissipate the darkness. And there are millions of stars—it is useless. So it is necessarily not required that everyone should be in perfect knowledge. But if one man is in perfect knowledge, hundreds and thousands can hear from him and they can perfect(?). So it does not depend on the quantity; it depends on the quality.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No, then you have to... As soon as you decide that you are not this body, you are transcendental to this body, then you have to understand what is the transcendental nature and what is your business, what you should do. These things will come. At the present moment, because I identify me with this body, I am simply busy with this bodily concept of life. So as soon as you understand that "I am not this body," that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am Brahman." That is the beginning of real knowledge.

Professor: (Spanish) That's the reason because I don't care what happens to this body, not because there is a difference between dog and man or anything.

Prabhupāda: No, even if you care, who cares for you? It will go by nature's way.

Professor: Right.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Whatever we see, that is, the source is Vasudeva. Do you think this nice flower has come out without any brain, this nonsense philosophy? The so-called scientist will put some bombastic word, "this, that..." What is that explanation? Nobody can understand. It will be understood by them only. They will put some language in such a way that it is to be understood by them. Unless they explain, nobody will understand. They say it is automatically being done, nature. That's not the fact. Nature is an instrument. Just like this wonderful machine, computer. But still, there is operator. But they have no common sense even, that where is the machine that is working without any operator? Where is that machine within their experience? How they suggest that the nature is doing automatically? Nature is wonderful machine, but the operator is Kṛṣṇa. That is real knowledge. Because the machine is working wonderfully, there is no operator? Where is that experience? Have you got any experience, Dr. Wolf, like that?

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Whatever little you are doing on account of presence of the spirit soul, as soon as the spirit soul is gone then your body and senses are simply lump of matter. So you are working with that lump of matter on account of presence of the spirit soul. Therefore that is more important. To understand what is that spirit soul, how it is working, what is his position, that, that is real knowledge. Therefore Kṛṣṇa begins in the Bhagavad-gītā, first lesson, about the spirit soul, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So you are studying the deha, that we are discussing just now. One is studying the motor car but he has no knowledge of the driver.

Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, may I venture very humbly to this opportunity of saying something I've experienced so much with people, that they would say, "Oh yes, we are ready to respect the spiritual values, but we live in this real world, in this material world and so we would rather not have the spiritual values interfere with it, settle everything in the material sense."

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: "May not have," that means you have no real knowledge, "may not have." "May not have," that is not knowledge. I say, "May have." Then what is the difference between you and me? "May not have," that is not knowledge. That is simply suggestion, speculation.

Guest (1): Want me to give examples...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to take knowledge from the perfect. Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13)." You have to take that knowledge. You cannot say you are perfect and you'll say, "May not have." And what is this knowledge, "May not have"? Say definitely and prove it, scientifically. That is knowledge. "Perhaps," "May not," "May be," these are not knowledge.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: That I do not know, but the remedy is there. If you like, you can take it. If a man is suffering from some disease, the remedy is there, the physician is there, but if he does not take advantage, then that is his business. What can be done? This is very nice... Every Bhāgavata, every line is so important.

anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād

bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje

lokasyājānato vidvāṁś

cakre sātvata-saṁhitām

(SB 1.7.6)

Those who are high-grade personalities, they are always thinking, "How these rascals will be happy?" Their only business is that. But their instruction is not being accepted. That is the difficulty. They have been described as mūḍha. Mūḍha. This word, mūḍha, means rascals. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamaḥ (BG 7.15). The lowest of the mankind, miscreants and rascals, these class of men will not accept God as the supreme. But He is... Kṛṣṇa is speaking, "Rascal." One may protest that "There are so many educated men. They are all rascals?" But that is also confirmed: "Yes, they are rascals." Why? māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. "Their real knowledge has been taken away by the illusory energy." māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Why it is done? Āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ: "Because they have accepted this theory 'There is no God.' " That is the difficulty. Āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ. They are under the control. How you can say there is no God? Are you free? Are you independent? What do you think? Are you independent of God?

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: The human life is meant for acquiring knowledge, real knowledge.

Justin Murphy: But so many people don't see it that way.

Prabhupāda: At least one class of men must be thoroughly conversant, thoroughly aware of the things as they are. They are called brāhmaṇas. Therefore the society should be divided into four classes. The first-class men, who have got full knowledge of life and the problems of life... That there should be, the first-class men. They may be very few; it doesn't matter. Ideal class. People will learn by their behavior, by their character, by their knowledge. So must be there. Then the next class would be the administrators. They would be advised by the first-class men, and they would administer the state. And the third-class men, they should produce food, enough food for the whole population. And the fourth-class men would assist these three higher class, first class, second class and third class. This is the arrangement, nature's arrangement. There are first-class men; there are second-class men; there are third-class men; there are fourth-class men. But if you produce simply fourth-class men, there cannot be any adjustment.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: And originally we have to accept. Everything belongs to God. Just like father and sons. The son must know, "The property is father's." That is the real knowledge. Now, "Whatever father has given me, I will use it. Why shall I encroach upon others, my other brother, which he has got from the father?" This is good sense. "Why shall I fight with my other brother? My father has given him this property to him, so let him use that, and whatever he has given me, let me use it. Why shall I encroach upon his property?" This is good sense.

Guest 1: I can understand when you say, "Don't encroach on other people's property." And I believe, if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that if you have something, if someone's given you something and someone else wants to use it, then let him. I can understand that. But don't you get into the stage and can't you get to the stage at times that for some reason or other you don't want him to use it?

Prabhupāda: I don't want to use my thing?

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Why you are sorry? How you can become happy? What is your program?" So on the street one mendicant was going on. He said, "I want to become like that mendicant; then I will be happy." And at last, he became like that. So sometimes one who is possessing more than required, he wants to become a beggar again. So I repeatedly say this to American boys, that "By the grace of God you are very much opulent materially. So if you don't take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will have to become beggar again because we know these two things: sometimes beggar, sometimes rich; sometimes beggar, rich..." We do not know third way. Renouncing and possessing. But both these two things are wrong because you haven't got anything, so what you can renounce? Just like this morning I came here, and they have given me this room to stay. And if I say next morning, "I renounce this," the question will be, "When you possessed this room that you are renouncing?" And if I say, "I possess it," that is also wrong, because somebody has given me this apartment to live for some time. So where I possessed, and how I renounced? But we know these two things only. Sometime we possess. Economic development means to possess. And to become hippie means you renounce. We know these two things. But we cannot possess; we cannot renounce. That is real knowledge. What do you think?

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no, why you are doing austerity? Remain as dog and cat. Therefore you are mūḍha. You do not know what is suffering, what is enjoyment. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mam ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Therefore one who is intelligent, jñāni, bahūnām jan... After suffering in this way and talking all nonsense, when he comes to the real knowledge, then he surrenders. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān maṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is knowledge.

Indian man (1): Kamādinaṁ katīna katidha palita durnideśaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah. When he comes to this awareness, that "I have simply suffered and I wanted to maintain myself by jugglery of words," then he comes to the real knowledge.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you read these books and write regular articles on the basis of my talk with you, it will be actually great benefit to the public.

Faill: Well, I'm about the only person in Durban, I think, who tries to write about this at all.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is the duty of the journalist to give real knowledge to the public. That is the duty of the journalist, not to give some hodgepodge idea without any effect.

Faill: I can't be bothered with profit (indistinct). I do a weekly science column, but it's more mysticism than science. I try and cover everything. Anyway, I won't keep you any longer.

Harikeśa: We're leaving at 9:45 A.M. on Tuesday.

Faill: 9:45.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no real knowledge.

Indian man (1): No. They cash in on the ignorance of the people.

Prabhupāda: That's it. (Hindi—break)

Indian man (1): Cheat everybody, I mean, get all the members and live on that. (break)

Indian man (2): Where does it have it's place in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Oṁkāra is… Oṁkāra is sound representation of Kṛṣṇa. One who is unable to chant Kṛṣṇa, for them oṁkāra. Because there are many envious persons—they won’t chant Kṛṣṇa—therefore Kṛṣṇa has given them oṁkāra.

Indian man (2): And the swastika?

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sama hi, sama hi. You are already sama hi. Sarvam kalv idam brahma. You are already in Brahman. There is no question of samai. The rascal cannot see. They say samai. Why samai? You are already there. You do not know. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahma-bhūta prasannātmā. I am already here, prasannātmā. If you have the false impression that "I am out of brahman," that is, there is question of samai. But if you know that you are already in brahman, then where is the question of samai? Prasannātmā. This is real explanation. Brahm-bhuta prasannātmā. Now we understand that I am aha brahmāsmi. That is real knowledge. I am not this body, I am not American, I am not Indian. Aha brahmāsmi...

Dr. Patel: "I am not this body."

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah, that is real knowledge. But they are under the impression of this false knowledge. Therefore it is samai. Why samai? You are already there. Kṛṣṇa says mamaivāṁso jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). When the sun is there, the sunshine is also there. Always. So you are sunshine and Kṛṣṇa is sun, so we are already together. But the cloud is there. We are thinking "I am not sunshine; I am cloud." That is misconception. But when we understand that the cloud is no more there, then aha brahmāsmi. Brahm-bhūta prasannātmā. That is wanted. Under the fool's guidance you are becoming fool. And if we take the real guidance, then we come into the real knowledge. We have created a fool's paradise. Everyone is a fool, and he is promising paradise.

Dr. Patel: This is called living under (indistinct)...

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Otherwise why there are so many rascals? (indistinct) The fools make it a fool's paradise. Take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Everything's all right. There is no question...

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Not unknown. It is unknown to you. But known to us. If it is unknown to you, you take, you know it from me. That is real knowledge. Why you persist that "It is unknown"? It should remain ever unknown? Why shall I take from anyone else? That's a fact. Either you answer what is that element which is missing so that the body is now dead. Simply your denial is obstinacy. That is dog's obstinacy. Then you are like a dog. You answer that: "This is the reason." Make experiment; prove it. Then you are right. So long you cannot do it, simply denying, that is dog's obstinacy. If you, as you say, there is no soul, it is chemical combination, so bring the chemicals and put him into life. Then your statement is right. You cannot do it and simply persist. This is doggish. You are calling a lump of matter your father, your child, your relative, and when the soul is gone, you say, "Oh, my father is gone." Why your father is gone? He's lying there on the bed. The same coat, pant, face, ear, eyes. Why do you say, "My father has gone"? What is this nonsense? So that chemical combination is your father? Bring your father again, chemical combination. Hmm? What is the answer? Some foolish, rubbish thing, presentation, will it be accepted as knowledge?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Yaśodānandana: But they say that oneness, that is the real knowledge.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That's all right. But why they say "different"?

Yaśodānandana: They say to see that our vision of difference, that our vision of difference, that is ignorance. When we understand the jīvātmā to be different from God, from Bhagavān, that is ignorance.

Prabhupāda: No. No.

Yaśodānandana: That your vision of seeing God...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we admit that, that when we see that "I am separate from..." Then the same example: If the finger thinks that it is separate from the body, that is ignorance, because the finger is required by the body to serve the body. So if he thinks, "No, I'll not serve you because I am different," that is ignorance. That is ignorance. That is going on. These Māyāvādīs, they refuse to serve God. That is ignorance. If they are part and parcel of God or one with God, how you can refuse to serve? That is ignorant. Here the finger is my part and parcel of the body. It cannot refuse to serve. I say; immediately it comes.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So everything is fact. But the real knowledge is to find out the source of the fact. That is real knowledge. Just like if we ask any gentleman—at least in India—for your identification, your father's name is required, your name of the village is required. If you go to the court, then such and such; father's name, such and such; village, this; religion, this; like this.... So father.... Why father's name? "What is the source of your existence? Wherefrom you are coming?" "I am coming from this family." So that is knowledge. Atom.... Atomic theory is there in Vedic conception, paramāṇuvāda. Kaṇada, the great sage, Kaṇada, he gave this theory, Kaṇada. Paramāṇuvāda. Paramāṇuvād. Paramāṇuvāda is accepted in Vedic philosophy also. But we know what is this paramāṇu also. Just like the sunshine. What is the sunshine? A combination of shining atoms. But we can see it is coming from the sun, incessantly coming. We can see. We can, immediately say, "This is.... The source is the sun." Similarly, the paramanu, the atoms, they are incessantly coming out. But wherefrom it is coming?

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually. One of his secretaries came to us. One of his secretaries, he asked that "I want real knowledge of God." He said, "Then you go to ISKCON."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's true.

Reporter (4): And if you want blissful, pleasureful things, go to other, either Mahesh or to Bala Hathayogi. This is what has been.... This is what has been impressed upon by knowledgeable people in America. And at least I can say with authority that I have talked with lot of people in America.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say that you can chant some mantra and go on with your sinful life. But the practical result is that people's lives remain the same. They may simply divert themselves from their suffering temporarily. But in reality their condition of life is the same. They're still in a miserable condition of life, whereas Prabhupāda is actually lifting us out of the well of misery to the atmosphere of blissfulness.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Relative knowledge is also...

Dr. Patel: Aparā-vidyā, what is real knowledge, we don't know.

Prabhupāda: No? Why not?

Dr. Patel: Because every time we change our opinion...

Prabhupāda: We know from Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Now, sir, that is what I said. You are always talking about parā-vidyā.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Patel: We are scientist of aparā-vidyā.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Mike Barron: Yes, well, due to problems that do occur from time to time, we.... You know, what people consider to be the false guru, is that all right with you?

Prabhupāda: Yes, any.... Guru means the teacher. So if the teacher does not give you real knowledge, then he is not teacher. He is cheater.

Mike Barron: And there are some around.

Prabhupāda: Almost everyone, because they do not know what is the subject matter of teaching. The subject matter of teaching is beginning with this understanding, that life is different from matter. That is the beginning, ABCD. So if your basic knowledge is wrong, then what is the use of going further? It is all false knowledge.

Mike Barron: So there are a lot of these people who do that, false knowledge?

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Carol Jarvis: Oh, I couldn't.... I agree with everything that you're saying about the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So but therefore how you can make a plan of happiness? Nature is baffling your plan. That you have to understand, "Why nature is baffling me?" That is real knowledge.

Carol Jarvis: So your answer...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Carol Jarvis: ...is to work with nature.

Prabhupāda: We can do that. We can do that, that...

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

(BG 7.14)

You cannot combat with the nature's law, but Kṛṣṇa says that if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you can do that. You can stop nature's law acting upon you. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: No. We are concerned that in spite of so-called education and advancement of civilization, people have been kept in darkness about real knowledge. So it is our little attempt to awaken them to the real platform of knowledge.

Interviewer: Well, what do you hope to achieve by your short visit here to New Zealand, where you don't have a very big following at all?

Prabhupāda: Just to encourage my disciples. They're also trying their best to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So if I occasionally visit, they become encouraged. That's why.

Interviewer: Is your movement still growing? It was very popular here in the Beatles' era and so on and so forth.

Prabhupāda: Yes, George Harrison is a good boy. He likes me. He has given us a big house in London about 200,000 pounds' worth.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is real knowledge. We have got, I have already told you, only on this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, there is one book by Professor Judah. Have you got that book?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: He has written one book very authorized, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture. So we are being accepted by learned circle, and who cares for these rascals? Nobody cares. Only some sentiment. There is no science; there is no knowledge. Here it is authoritative knowledge based on Vedic culture.

Interviewer: But if you consider your religion to be the only religion...

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: Reason is that Hare Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is the name of God, Kṛṣṇa. So if you... Kṛṣṇa is absolute, God is absolute. God's name and God, there is no difference. That is absolute idea. So if you chant Kṛṣṇa's name, that means you associate with Kṛṣṇa directly, God. And by associating with God, you become purified. Then the dirty things within your mind... You are thinking, "I am this body," as the dog is also thinking, "I belong to America," "I belong to Australia," "I belong to New Zealand," "I... India," and... These wrong conception will go away. Then we'll understand that "I am not this or that; I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God." Then real knowledge begins, and if we act accordingly, our life becomes successful. So this movement is not meant for you and me—for everyone who is intelligent human being.

Interviewer: Thank you, Swami. That wraps it up for me unless anybody's got any more questions? Thank you, thank you very much.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Therefore.... Therefore, they're rascals. And for the rascals, the Bhagavad-gītā teaching is there. Learn! They are giving the stress on the body, that "The body is finished, everything finished." They do not know beyond the body. But the real knowledge begins, "No, you are beyond this body." That is real knowledge. That is the beginning of knowledge. Any other knowledge except this, that is ignorance. That is not knowledge. They are accepting ignorance as knowledge.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so essential. They are accepting ignorance as knowledge. Darwin's theory. It is simply speculation on ignorance, and it has been taken as knowledge. Freud's philosophy is the business of the hogs and dogs, and it has been taken as philosophy. Even the hogs and dogs know how to enjoy sex life. And they are.... On account of sex life, they have written a philosophy. Is that philosophy? Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. Find out. The Thirteenth Chapter. Hmm? (devotees look for verse)

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Because there are third-class men, fourth-class men. They cannot understand bhakti-yoga immediately. But at last He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), if you are intelligent. Sarva-guhyatam. Real knowledge is here. Sarva-guhyatamam. But He's proposing at last, "If by understanding all other ways, if he has come to know what is the actual knowledge..." That is the most confidential knowledge. That is not for everyone. How one can give up karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga? They cannot. But Kṛṣṇa says, "This is the most confidential. If you accept this, then it is to be understood you have knowledge." It is not for everyone. Find out this verse. Sixty-three, Eighteenth Chapter, I think. So take these notes, take these books and preach. You have taken all, sannyāsa. You preach.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Laṅgoṭā means the loincloth. So what is it you have given up? And you cannot give up your body. This is made, this kṣitir ap-tejo-marud-vyoma, (indistinct) these five elements, they're also Kṛṣṇa's. You have got mind. Oh, that belongs to Kṛṣṇa. What you have got that you'll give up? You have stolen everything. You don't accept the real proprietor, and you are thinking, "I am the proprietor." That is your fault. That is miscreant. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). It is said there. Read Bhagavad-gītā carefully, that everyone is a thief. Stena eva sa ucyate. All thiefs, rogues, rascals. That is the substance. If one does not accept God, the Supreme, and does not surrender, he is miscreant, mūḍha. Mūḍha. He does not know what does he possess, and he's thinking, "I am giving up." What you are giving up? You do not possess anything. A mūḍha, falsely thinking that "I am giving up." What you have got? Nobody can give up, nobody can enjoy. This is real knowledge.

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Go on. Yes, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Narakī, if anyone thinks arca-vigraha, the Deities as made of stone, made of earth, or made of something material, and guru, the spiritual master, "He is an ordinary man"—these are forbidden. So why guru is to be considered sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **, exactly (like) the Supreme Personality of Godhead? That reason is given there. That reason is that he is giving the Kṛṣṇa knowledge; therefore he is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Even though his family members or his friend thinking, "Oh, he has now become guru," still he should be considered the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That reason also given there, that even Kṛṣṇa was taken as ordinary man, but does it mean that He has become ordinary? Similarly any..., our movement, it may appear just like other movement, but because the movement is giving Kṛṣṇa, that means it is as good as Kṛṣṇa. This is the example. Ajñāya haña (follow the order). It may appear to others... And there are so many movements, and the hippies have taken another say(?), but it is not that. It is actually Kṛṣṇa. So long it adheres to the principle, "I'll enjoy, I'll be unaccepted(?)." Otherwise it is ordinary movement. This same man, he's guru, so long he gives the real knowledge of Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the knowledge, real knowledge. Eight million, four hundred thousand forms of life, and the supreme father is supplying food to everyone. And each form millions, millions. You'll find millions of one type of fish within the water. And there are nine hundred thousand different forms of fishes. They are eating within this water. Who is supplying them food? We cannot imagine even what is the food there within the water. But there is. Otherwise, how they are living? They have no scarcity.

Hari-śauri: Neither there's any overpopulation either.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: As soon as we see somebody is not thinking as God thinks, as Kṛṣṇa thinks, we take him in either of these groups. That is our test. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ—we see, practically, they do not speak or they do not think as Kṛṣṇa says, but he's thinking independently. Therefore he is mūḍha. His thinking is imperfect, so therefore, he's mūḍha. And because his thinking is imperfect, another mūḍha comes, he says that "I think like this." This is their controversy. So many independent thinking philosophers have spoiled the broth. Too many cooks spoil the broth. Real knowledge is lacking. Hmm? Anyone, any questions? Yes? Just attend to the question.

Dr. Wolfe: With regard to opinions, there are the people, especially the scientists, I would say the medium quality of scientists, who don't want to think anymore. They just come to a...

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ignorance means completely lost of all independence. That is ignorance. Complete loss of, even little intelligence, all lost. In the modes of passion, there is little independence, and in the modes of goodness, he has got full independence whether to remain in the struggle for existence or go back to home, back to Godhead. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. That is real knowledge platform.

Hṛdayānanda: (reading:) "This material covering perishes, but his spiritual body manifests in its individual capacity. The following information is there in the Mādhyandināyana-śruti: sa vā eṣa brahma-niṣṭha idaṁ śarīraṁ martyam atisṛjya brahmābhisampadya brahmaṇā paśyati brahmaṇā śṛṇoti brahmaṇaivedaṁ sarvam anubhavati. It is stated here that when a living entity gives up this material embodiment and enters into the spiritual world, he revives his spiritual body, and in his spiritual body he can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face. He can hear and speak to Him face to face, and he can understand the Supreme Personality as He is. In smṛti also it is understood that in the spiritual planets everyone lives in bodies featured like the Supreme Personality of Godhead's body.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's representative means the representative says the same thing as Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says "Surrender unto Me," and the representative says "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." And because he delivers the real knowledge, he's as good as Kṛṣṇa. Therefore sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. The spiritual master may appear to be just like a common man, but he is to be respected as God, because he delivers the real message of God. That is the qualification of spiritual master. He does not manufacture anything. That is very easy. If I carry your message and educate people in that way, then there is no difficulty for me. Everything is there. Why shall I go to manufacture something imperfect? The perfect thing is already there. Simply I have to carry. A post peon—the money order is there, he has to simply carry and deliver to the person. And if he gets at time of need, he thanks the peon, "Oh, you have saved my life." It is like that. The message is already there. You have to simply deliver to the suffering humanity.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Talk like sensible man. Don't cheat others, that you have no knowledge and still you say "I am professor." Why you are cheating people?

Kīrtanānanda: They say that real knowledge is to know that there is no such thing as absolute knowledge but simply this process of searching for knowledge.

Prabhupāda: No. That is ignorance. As knowledge you are receiving... Just like I've come to you, I'm a layman, I've come to you for knowledge. Unfortunately, you have not received knowledge from that source. Therefore you are useless. I cannot have knowledge from you. Knowledge means to take it from higher personality. That is knowledge. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Knowledge means you have to receive it from a superior person. Otherwise, there is no knowledge.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So, for example, if one is learning how to count or how to read...

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has to learn it from the teacher. Two plus two equal to four. One, two, three, four, like that.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante.

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ

(BG 10.8)

Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). Here is vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. Find out this verse, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). This is Vāsudeva. Vāsudeva must be, and from Him, everything is coming. That is real knowledge.

Hari-śauri:

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

(BG 7.19)

"After many births and deaths..."

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No. There are Vedas, there are so many names described. Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). If one has not understood Kṛṣṇa by studying Vedas, then he has not studied Vedas. It is very confidential. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15)? If one has studied Veda, but has not understood Kṛṣṇa, then his labor is useless. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). If one is actually jñānavān, then he (indistinct). Śaṅkarācārya said bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam. That is real knowledge. But if one says that in the Vedas, you don't find Kṛṣṇa's name, then he has not studied Veda. Because Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). The actual purpose of studying Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṇa. If one has not understood Kṛṣṇa, then śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). They have simply labored for nothing.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, educated means they have knowledge, but real knowledge is taken away. He does not know God. Just like a man is rich, but he has no food. It is like that. māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Therefore his knowledge is misused, duṣkṛtina. This knowledge, without any sense of God... Yes, come in. Sit down. (guests entering)

Vṛṣākapi: This is Mr. Davis, Mr. and Mrs. Davis, Prabhupāda. Their daughter is a devotee here, very good devotee.

Hari-śauri: There's chair if you'd like to sit in the chair. We can bring one more. Bring another chair.

Vipina: Used to be a senator.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise people are misled. It is not the duty of education to mislead people. Real knowledge should be given. To become a great misleader and take some title, that is not good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other morning Śrīla Prabhupāda was mentioning about the Institute, the Bhaktivedanta Institute. So is there anything else that your Divine Grace wants to?

Prabhupāda: Institute, you have got sufficient subject matter as I was describing, this original source of life and the planetary system, as you are going to make planetarium. Who can say about so many planets in the sky? Who has got sufficient knowledge? They cannot even give... They think that moon is the nearest planet, but we do not think like that. But still they are unable to give sufficient knowledge about the moon. It is not vacant, it cannot be vacant. We do not find any part of the world vacant. There is living entities. This earth planet is part of the universe, and the moon is also part of the universe. If it is not vacant, how that can be vacant?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Real knowledge is covered.

Prabhupāda: Just like this planetary system. So many planets are there. They do not know anything. And they are going to the Mars. They are going to the moon. All bluff. Two things unsolved. They do not know what is life and they do not know what are these planetary system. And still, they are speaking on these two subjects as authority. That is bluff.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we conclude that without understanding the existence of God, these two problems can never be answered.

Prabhupāda: Never be. You hear from God; then you have got perfect knowledge. And if you want to become scientist more than God, then you'll never know it. But their real propaganda is "There is no God." That is their real propaganda.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: He should know that he is different from the car. That is real knowledge. And if he identifies himself with the car, then he's a fool.

Interviewer: Well, can he, is he supposed to care about and honor the body in the physical world...

Prabhupāda: That is already taken.

Interviewer: ...and to see that, see the physical world as important?

Prabhupāda: Suppose if you are utilizing this coat, you are taking care of it, but if you think that you are coat, then you are doomed.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So this is the civilization of the asuras, and without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa or without any knowledge of the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, people are grouped as duṣkṛtina, miscreants; mūḍhas, rascals; narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And if you say that "So many people, they are educated highly in the university, how they can be taken as miscreants, rascals and lowest of the mankind?" the answer is māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They have got knowledge, so-called knowledge, but they are lacking in real knowledge. Knowledge means to get out of distress. That is knowledge. But the real distress remains as it is. They cannot avoid death, they cannot avoid birth, they cannot avoid old age. And still they are claiming they are making progress in happiness. So that is called illusion.

Interviewer: Prabhu, the... Can you tell us a little bit about the plans you have for your project in India?

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That will remain everlastingly unknown. They'll never be able to push. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-saṁpragamyaḥ. What is this speed? Even with the speed of mind and air they go many, many millions of years, it will still be... This verse of Brahma-saṁhitā, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-saṁpragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām, so 'py asti avicintya-tattve (Bs. 5.34). It is inconceivable. It will never be done. They have some vague idea, "There is no life. There is this. There is that." That's... Real knowledge they'll never get. Real knowledge you'll get from Bhāgavata.

Rādhāvallabha: They don't even know what is inside the ocean, what to speak of other planets.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Childish, with no sense. Actually that is the fact. All these rascals, they have no sense. Simply they bluff because they have no real knowledge. Mayayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. That's a fact. If one, anyone, does not know Kṛṣṇa, then he's a bokā-loka. Immediately take it for granted, bokāloka. They take that we are very sectarian, but that is a fact.

Bhagavān: Our philosophy is that everyone else is wrong.

Prabhupāda: May be true to some extent, but they do not know the ultimate truth. That they do not know. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān (BG 7.19). He understands, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). That requires many, many births, to come to that conclusion. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). This Kṛṣṇa says. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior than Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). He explains to everyone, sarva-dharman parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). That is the.... There is the ultimate person. You call Him Kṛṣṇa or something, but you must know Him. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ, there must be. Father's father's father's father's father's.... Who is the original father? There must be.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Difficulty is there is no education. Mūḍha. There is no education, there is no check, therefore people remain duṣkṛtina, sinful, mūḍha, rascal, lowest of the men, narādhama, and their so-called education has no value, there is no real knowledge, therefore they are suffering. Why the government keeps police department? To check these sinful activities. But they do not know what is sinful activity. They are allowed to continue sinful activity.

Dayānanda: They judge everything on the basis of what is good for humanity.

Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is good because they are uneducated rascals. What do they know what is good for humanity?

Dayānanda: Whatever gives pleasure to the greatest number of people.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. You cannot merge. You simply imagine. Merging means you merge in the spiritual atmosphere, but without ānanda you cannot stay there. Therefore you have to come back again to this material world. Suppose you are advocate and you are given some place without any practice. How long you will you remain there? If I say, "Please remain here happily without any practice." How long you'll remain? We want some activities. That is our nature, for ānanda. But here we are trying to get that ānanda, but that is temporary. That is not satisfying us. Therefore being disgusted we want to stop it and merge. But there is also temporary. Unless you go back to home back to Godhead, there is no complete life. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes and shows by His spiritual activities. He's playing with the boys, He's dancing with the girls, He's killing the demons, and so many activities. This is ānanda. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). They are all spiritual. You have read our Kṛṣṇa Book? Yes. There is everything. So as far as possible we are trying to give people the real knowledge from the śāstra. Now it is up to them to accept or take advantage of it.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: It is a great offense, therefore, to consider Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, to be an ordinary man. Those who do so are certainly deluded because they cannot understand the eternal form of Kṛṣṇa. In the Bṛhad-vaiṣṇava mantra it is clearly stated that one who considers the body of Kṛṣṇa to be material should be driven out from all rituals and activities of the śruti. And if one by chance sees his face, he should at once take bath in the Ganges to rid himself of infection. People jeer at Kṛṣṇa because they are envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Their destiny is certainly to take birth after birth in the species of atheistic and demoniac life. Perpetually, their real knowledge will remain under delusion, and gradually they will regress to the darkest region of creation.

Indian man (3): I was reading this yesterday, the Eleventh Chapter. There are twelve, twelve chapters. There Kṛṣṇa Bhagavān had a dialogue with Uddhava.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom he has drawn? He has speculated only, like a rascal. That's all. Wherefrom he got this thing? He has said that "It is my speculation." Speculation is no knowledge. You can speculate in your own way. Knowledge gathered from the authority, that is real knowledge. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) We have published even in Chinese language. European.

Indian man (8): With your comments or...?

Prabhupāda: No, comments means to explain the original verse.

Indian man (8): You have explained also in that copy?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (8): From where we can get, sir?

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: India's culture and knowledge are richer than any other culture. And that is being accepted. Yes. Real knowledge, real culture is in India. Unfortunately, we did not try in that way. We simply went to the foreign countries to beg, "Give us wheat, give us this, give us this, give us that." But if we give our culture, they will accept that India is still richer than any other. You can bring some of the press items, professor, learned scholars' opinions. Aiye. (pause) Where is Caitya-guru?

Haṁsadūta: He's out. (long pause)

Prabhupāda: Opinions of the big scholars.

Interviewer: I would request you to wait for five minutes because some other journalists are coming. They are...

Interviewer (2): Here is some material written about...

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So this is difficulty. If I say, "Here is a person who knows mathematics," why there should be... Any person who is interested in mathematics will welcome him. So similarly, here is Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means real knowledge. Here is Bhagavad-gītā, the knowledge of God, but they misunderstand. They think, "Oh, we have got another God." How God can be another? So people should be sober, that we are giving books. They should understand. And it is accepted by the educated class, big, big professors, big, big philosophers. It is not blind faith. Just like this version of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As we are changing body even in this duration of life, similarly, when this body is finished, then another body," so where is the difficulty to understand? But they will say, "It is Hindu idea." Fact we are presenting, that "You are changing your body. When you came out of the womb of your mother, the body was so small. And then little bigger body, little bigger body, little bigger body. Now you are full grown young man." So the body is changing, everyone can understand, but I can understand also that "I had so big..., small body and this body." Then body is changing; I am existing. Then where is the difficulty of the transmigration of the soul?

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is against their interest. These rascals, they do not know what is their interest. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). If you keep the stomach empty and try to supply food to the eyes and legs, it is simply waste of time. But these rascals, they do not know. They will go on committing mistakes after mistakes. This is the position. We are giving the real knowledge that "You serve in this way. Then everyone will be pleased." Kasmin tu bhagavo vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati.

Vāsughoṣa: They are simply acting out of ignorance.

Prabhupāda: That's it. So you are... We are delivering them from ignorance. (kīrtana—break)

Devotee (2): ...program in this life is birth, old age, disease and death. And Bhagavad-gītā gives the remedy for...

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And, above all, his senses are imperfect. Therefore, from such persons with deficiency, how you can get real knowledge? That is not possible. We have to approach a person who has no deficiency. Then we shall get real knowledge. So Kṛṣṇa and His representative are persons without any deficiencies. So we have to take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa or one who represents Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we'll be cheated, because he has got deficiencies.

Guest (1): But that you have said, that one of his colleague or assistant told to Gandhi that "There is danger, and you shouldn't go to the meeting," and in spite of that...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I did not say. I wrote one letter to Gandhi that, "Mahatmaji, you have got some respectability throughout the whole world. Now you struggled for so-called svarāja. Now you have got it. Better retire from this life and preach Bhagavad-gītā."

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: On the plane. When I went also, we were in the same plane, because he was making a bridge in Manipur. So he invited me to come to his place in Calcutta, in Balliganj. When also I came back we were in the same plane. It just happened. So he started talking to me that he lost about forty thousand rupees because bridge was broken, and so he said he was feeling very bad, very sad. He was telling me all stories about "Whether I should prepare my life for the future, or whether I should wind up, as he is. Then I started talking about that we always want to be happy, but somehow we misunderstand about our basic position, what position we shall take up, whether... He said he has great difficulty in making decisions, "Whether I shall decide this," so many problems, not knowing what to decide. So we started talking about the real nature of knowledge. The real knowledge is to understand the real difference between this life and matter, the fundamental principle of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke

jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ

manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi

prakṛti-sthāni karṣati

(BG 15.7)

This is our position, that I am part and parcel of God. God is happy, ānanda-maya. So part and parcel should be ānanda-maya. But-manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). I have come to this material world. I am creating so many isms by the mind and acting with the senses, and there is struggle. This is the... Everything is there. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7).

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then give an alternative view and see which one is based on more real knowledge. Then they'll accept. Otherwise they will not.

Prabhupāda: So that duty is now entrusted to you, in your hands. Do it very nicely. Kṛṣṇa will help you. (break)

Jayapatākā: ...to disprove them. But we have the true fact, but they cannot... Then let them disprove that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: When the people all understand our philosophy then they'll have to disprove us. Otherwise they won't stand. Why we should disprove their nonsense? They haven't proved it yet.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...etad anyathā ajñānam. Find out Bhagavad-gītā. This is knowledge. All other things are bogus. Otherwise how could I convince big, big scientists? They are not ordinary men, Doctor, that Svarūpa Dāmodara, one of the first-class scientists. He has got very good degree from Calcutta University, from other university, M.A.C. and other. He is very intelligent boy. He studies science very particularly, means sound knowledge. How he's attached?

Jayapatākā: This is real knowledge.

Prabhupāda: This is real knowledge. Hm.

Pradyumna: Whole thing read or just that, amānitvam adambhitvam?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: A butchers' health organization. Take these ideas all, there, everything is there, already mentioned. Cultivate. Try to give Kṛṣṇa in every... Let everyone come, stay with us, learn this art, preach all over the world. And Bombay is a city where you'll get all kind of help. Besides that, we shall get help from all over the world. But do it very cautiously, thoroughly. You don't take it as insignificant thing. Very important thing. I am talking of this Māyāpura. So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya. Why He's stressing bhārata-bhūmi? Yes. It's a fact. Real knowledge is here, Bhagavad-gītā. Speaking Kṛṣṇa Himself. Why such knowledge should be denied? Is that all right?

Pañcadraviḍa: To lose this knowledge? No, it's not all right.

Prabhupāda: People are in darkness. To keep them like dogs, hogs, camels, and take vote from them and become a leader... Nobody protested that we call all the men dogs, hogs, camels. Nobody came forward, that "You are using very strong words." It's a fact.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This movement is started to give something to the whole human society about the real culture. And that is India's prerogative. India can give it. The whole world is in darkness of ignorance. So India was expected after independence to give the real knowledge. But instead of giving the real knowledge, they became victimized by their glimmer of material civilization. So I wanted that such a magnificent gift from the side of India, it shall remain uncontributed to the world, let me try. This is my... This culture is based on Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is named Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In India practically every home, every person, every leader, they read Bhagavad-gītā. But unfortunately they do not understand the human life.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not movement, it is knowledge. It is not artificial movement. It is knowledge, real knowledge, that you are not this body. You are not this machine. It is knowledge. It is meant for everyone. But you take an artificial movement. It is not. It is knowledge. And it is your duty to give knowledge to the people. If you have got any knowledge... All scientists do like that. It is not movement. When a scientist goes all over the world, he gives about his discovery, it is not movement. It is scientific knowledge. Movement is you create something and make your followers. That is movement. It is not like that. It is scientific knowledge that you are not this body. Dehino 'smin yathā. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are fortunate, they will accept it. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Find out this verse. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, but we are neglecting. Allah... We are getting photograph(?) in Bhagavad-gītā. This is... Actually understand Bhagavad-gītā and distribute the knowledge. That is our aim.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Make friends with them about real knowledge.

Girirāja: And then Mr. Bajaj... Mr. Bajaj was on the same plane going to Poona.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: So he wants to arrange another meeting of the Gītā Conference. So he's thinking of either Kurukṣetra or Vṛndāvana. So I suggested that they should hold it at our Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. So he's seriously thinking of it. But he's not very much intelligent. I mean, he's not able to understand the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: They are influenced by these rascals, Vinod Bhave and company.

Girirāja: Actually he has no idea what the Bhagavad-gītā says.

Prabhupāda: What he has done?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. This is the regrettable fact, that we have got in India the real knowledge.

Mr. Rajda: Real...?

Prabhupāda: Real knowledge. And we have locked up that knowledge.

Mr. Rajda: We have locked up. That is the greatest crime we have committed.

Indian (1): We have not allowed it to grow all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Jñāna-khala. Sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. There is a verse like this in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Jñāna-khale. If you have got some knowledge, you should distribute it. That will glorify you, not that "I have got some knowledge. I'll keep it secret." So India has got such exalted vast knowledge of spiritual life, and that is locked up. We are imitating the Western dog-dancing. This I wanted to bring to your notice. This will not do any good. So some arrangement should be made that this exalted knowledge of India must be distributed. That I have begun with my humble...

Mr. Rajda: No, that is very nicely done.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have not been educated. Therefore, actually speaking, there is no real knowledge outside India. Mūḍha.

Dr. Sharma: Even the smallpox vaccination that was discovered by Edgar Jenner in 1796, it was really from the cow pox serum they discovered. The first vaccination he used on his own son. (indistinct) People who were living with the cows, they were not affected by smallpox, though the people did not have a cow in the house, they were affected the most. So it protects from cow pox, small pox.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Cow protection protects us from so many infectious disease.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He is... Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1), anādir ādir... Anādi. (Hindi) You have got so exalted knowledge in India. You have kept it packed. And you are going to beg from others? Take this knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā and assimilate it, make your life successful, and distribute it throughout the whole world. That I want. (Hindi) Knowledge, real knowledge, is in India. (Hindi) Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

Indians, they are fortunate. They have got their birth in Bhāratavarṣa. The knowledge is here. So assimilate this knowledge. Make your life successful and distribute it to persons outside India. That is paropakāra. That is real paropakāra. That is real sevā. But sevā, no. It is dayā. The sevā cannot be used. Sevā means offered to the superior. And to the inferior, if you want to do something, that is dayā. There are words. Sevā is only capable to accept, Kṛṣṇa. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234).

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Your ability to work is destined. Why don't you understand this? What you are? Why you are thinking yourself very big? That is your nonsense. You are under the rules of material nature. You'll be forced. That is real understanding, that "I don't want this. Why material nature forces me?" That is real knowledge. "Why? Why I am under the material rules?" Then knowledge begins.

Young man (3): Ah, this is understood, but...

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you think stick to your own rules, that "I don't care for your material rules," who cares for you?

Young man (3): But one must train themselves...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is knowledge. You meditate upon this, that "I do not want to die. Why there is death?"

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is real evolution. What do they know of change of body? Therefore I say that, that you people, your brain is filled up with stool. You require thorough washing. You are not civilized. What is meaning of civilization? Improve animal life to civilized life. A dog can walk on the street naked; a man cannot. That is civilization. Otherwise dog is eating; you are eating. He's sleeping; you are sleeping. This is civilization. (indistinct) Culture. You have no knowledge of culture. Real knowledge is this: the body is there and changing; the soul is there, eternal. Then you become on the platform of God. If you remain in the same ignorance, then where is your advancement of civilization? If you cannot understand the simple truth, then where is your civilization?

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. It's unlimited, scientific knowledge. It's all Śrīla Prabhupāda's mercy that all these people are getting at least a second thought, being born in this material, just been carried away by some sort of temporary knowledge without really knowing what real knowledge is behind. Now, by Prabhupāda's mercy, they have been given the opportunity also to think about it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are proper person to understand what is pervading(?). Monkey cannot understand what is pervading(?). (Bengali) Just like mother Sītā. When Hanumān approached, she gave her pearl necklace. He immediately remove it. So one who knows pearl and one does not know pearl. Anyway, it is all Kṛṣṇa's desire that you are combined together. So it is my duty to show you, "Here is the pearl." Now, to the few, value of pearl will be appreciated. All theories, bogus, vyapa, garbage(?)... At least you have got now basic principles to talk with high-grade scientists. Hm?

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). From Brahmā we have come. And Brahmā is generated from Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. So let them come forward and discuss. So we have to prove to the world that it is not brainwashing. It is real knowledge. Why you should keep it suppressed and leave the people in ignorance? It is not your duty to bluff and cheat. That is not science. You are cheating people and getting Nobel Prize. That we have to..., in a large scale.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There will be immediate reaction from the team called "The Study of the Origin of Life from Chemicals." They have also an international society. They also publish a journal.

Prabhupāda: We have to defeat them.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it will be just like a battle.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If he knows how to rub on... What is called, that? That instrument? He doesn't require to become M.A., Ph.D. All these laborers are working so nicely. So why they should spend, waste their time in going to school and college? From the very be... As soon as he's ten years old only, let him learn practically how to weave cloth, how to become carpenter, how become other craftsman. And in due course of time he can earn his... How to cultivate land... Why so many big, big universities for inviting everyone? There is no need. Educated means brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. Brāhmaṇa will give real knowledge, and kṣatriyas will govern. For vaiśyas and śūdras, there is no... It is waste of time. Formerly it was done so. The vaiśyas, they have got a son, goes to a shopkeeper: "Please here let my son work with you. He doesn't want any salary." So he gets engagement. Then, by seeing, seeing, he becomes little important. And the proprietor gives him some hand expense. And then, one day, he becomes very expert. He starts his own business. That was the system.