Ramananda Raya and Varnasrama

Expressions researched:
"ramananda raya" |"varnasrama"

SB Preface and Introduction

When He met Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya on the bank of the Godāvarī, the varṇāśrama-dharma followed by the Hindus was mentioned by the Lord.

SB Introduction: When He met Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya on the bank of the Godāvarī, the varṇāśrama-dharma followed by the Hindus was mentioned by the Lord. Śrīla Rāmānanda Rāya said that by following the principles of varṇāśrama-dharma, the system of four castes and four orders of human life, everyone could realize Transcendence. In the opinion of the Lord, the system of varṇāśrama-dharma is superficial only, and it has very little to do with the highest realization of spiritual values. The highest perfection of life is to get detached from the material attachment and proportionately realize the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The Personality of Godhead recognizes a living being who is progressing in that line. Devotional service, therefore, is the culmination of the culture of all knowledge. When Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, appeared for the deliverance of all fallen souls, He advised the deliverance of all living entities as follows. The Supreme Absolute Personality of Godhead, from whom all living entities have emanated, must be worshiped by all their respective engagements, because everything that we see is also the expansion of His energy. That is the way of real perfection, and it is approved by all bona fide ācāryas past and present. The system of varṇāśrama is more or less based on moral and ethical principles. There is very little realization of the Transcendence as such, and Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected it as superficial and asked Rāmānanda Rāya to go further into the matter.

This dedication on the part of the worker suggests that the Personality of Godhead is a step higher than the impersonal conception of the varṇāśrama system, but still the relation of the living being and the Lord is not distinct in that way. The Lord therefore rejected this proposition and asked Rāmānanda Rāya to go further.

SB Introduction: Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya then suggested renunciation of fruitive actions unto the Lord. The Bhagavad-gītā (9.27) advises in this connection: "Whatever you do, whatever you eat and whatever you give, as well as whatever you perform in penance, offer to Me alone." This dedication on the part of the worker suggests that the Personality of Godhead is a step higher than the impersonal conception of the varṇāśrama system, but still the relation of the living being and the Lord is not distinct in that way. The Lord therefore rejected this proposition and asked Rāmānanda Rāya to go further.

SB Canto 4

Rāmānanda Rāya referred to the execution of varṇāśrama-dharma, and Lord Caitanya indicated that the varṇāśrama-dharma was simply external (eho bāhya). Lord Caitanya wanted to impress upon Rāmānanda Rāya that simply by executing the duties of varṇāśrama-dharma one is not guaranteed liberation.

SB 4.24.53, Purport: In Bhagavad-gītā there are descriptions of karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, bhakti-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, etc., but unless one comes to the point of bhakti-yoga, these other yogas cannot help one attain the highest perfection of life. In other words, bhakti-yoga is the only means for liberation. We find this conclusion also in Caitanya-caritāmṛta in a discussion between Lord Caitanya and Rāmānanda Rāya regarding a human being's liberation from this material world. In that discussion Rāmānanda Rāya referred to the execution of varṇāśrama-dharma, and Lord Caitanya indicated that the varṇāśrama-dharma was simply external (eho bāhya). Lord Caitanya wanted to impress upon Rāmānanda Rāya that simply by executing the duties of varṇāśrama-dharma one is not guaranteed liberation. Finally Rāmānanda Rāya referred to the process of bhakti-yoga: sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ (SB 10.14.3). Regardless of one's condition of life, if he practices bhakti-yoga, which begins with hearing (śruti-gatām) the transcendental messages of the Lord through the mouths of devotees, he gradually conquers the unconquerable God.

CC Madhya-lila

First of all, Śrīla Rāmānanda Rāya enunciated the system of the varṇāśrama institution. He recited various verses about karmārpaṇa, stating that everything should be dedicated to the Lord.

CC Madhya 8, Purport: In the evening, Śrīla Rāmānanda Rāya used to come to see Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Rāmānanda Rāya, who was clothed in ordinary dress, offered the Lord respectful obeisances. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu questioned him on the object and process of worship and also asked him to recite verses from the Vedic literature. First of all, Śrīla Rāmānanda Rāya enunciated the system of the varṇāśrama institution. He recited various verses about karmārpaṇa, stating that everything should be dedicated to the Lord. He then spoke of detached action, knowledge mixed with devotional service, and finally the spontaneous loving service of the Lord. After hearing Śrīla Rāmānanda Rāya recite some verses, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted the principle of pure devotional service devoid of all kinds of speculation. After this, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked Rāmānanda Rāya to explain the higher platform of devotional service. Then Śrīla Rāmānanda Rāya explained unalloyed devotional service, love of Godhead, and serving the Lord in the moods of pure servitude, fraternity and parental love. Finally he spoke of serving the Lord in conjugal love. He then spoke of how conjugal love can be developed in various ways. This conjugal love attains its highest perfection in Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī’s love for Kṛṣṇa. He next described the position of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī and the transcendental mellows of love of God. Śrīla Rāmānanda Rāya then recited a verse of his own concerning the platform of ecstatic vision, technically called prema-vilāsa-vivarta. Śrīla Rāmānanda Rāya also explained that all stages of conjugal love can be attained through the mercy of the residents of Vṛndāvana, especially by the mercy of the gopīs. All these subject matters were thus vividly described. Gradually Rāmānanda Rāya could understand the position of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and when Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu exhibited His real form, Rāmānanda Rāya fell unconscious. After some days, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked Rāmānanda Rāya to retire from government service and come to Jagannātha Purī. These descriptions of the meetings between Rāmānanda Rāya and Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu are taken from the notebook of Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī.

Naturally Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was asking Rāmānanda Rāya about the execution of devotional service. Rāmānanda Rāya first enunciated the principle of varṇāśrama-dharma in consideration of materialistic people. However, this conception is not transcendental.

CC Madhya 8.60, Translation and Purport: Rāmānanda Rāya continued, “‘My dear son of Kuntī, whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer in sacrifice, whatever you give in charity, and whatever austerities you perform, all the results of such activities should be offered to Me, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.’” The Lord has said that the varṇāśrama-dharma is not properly executed in this Age of Kali; therefore He ordered Rāmānanda Rāya to go further into the matter. Rāmānanda replied with this verse from the Bhagavad-gītā (9.27), which instructs that while remaining in the system of varṇāśrama-dharma one may offer the results of his activities to Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa in loving service. Naturally Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was asking Rāmānanda Rāya about the execution of devotional service. Rāmānanda Rāya first enunciated the principle of varṇāśrama-dharma in consideration of materialistic people. However, this conception is not transcendental. As long as one is in the material world, he must follow the principles of varṇāśrama-dharma, but devotional service is transcendental. The system of varṇāśrama-dharma refers to the three modes of material nature, but transcendental devotional service is on the absolute platform.

Consequently it is said that varṇāśrama-dharma is external, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu requested Rāmānanda Rāya to proceed deeper into the matter and uncover the spiritual platform.

CC Madhya 8.60, Purport: Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu belongs to the spiritual world, and His methods for propagating the saṅkīrtana movement are also imported from the spiritual world. Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung: golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, rati na janmila kene tāya. This states that the saṅkīrtana movement has nothing to do with this material world. It is imported from the spiritual world, Goloka Vṛndāvana. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura laments that mundane people do not take this saṅkīrtana movement seriously. Considering the position of devotional service and the saṅkīrtana movement, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu deemed the system of varṇāśrama-dharma to be material, although it aims at elevation to the spiritual platform. However, the saṅkīrtana movement can raise one immediately to the spiritual platform. Consequently it is said that varṇāśrama-dharma is external, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu requested Rāmānanda Rāya to proceed deeper into the matter and uncover the spiritual platform.

Rāmānanda Rāya replied, “To give up one’s occupational duties in the varṇāśrama system is the essence of perfection.”

CC Madhya 8.61, Translation and Purport: “This is also external,” Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said. “Please proceed and speak further on this matter.” Rāmānanda Rāya replied, “To give up one’s occupational duties in the varṇāśrama system is the essence of perfection.”

A brāhmaṇa may renounce his family and accept sannyāsa. Others—kṣatriyas and vaiśyas—may also give up their families and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Such renunciation is called karma-tyāga. By such renunciation, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is satisfied.

In contrast, the process of renouncing the results of one’s activities by offering these results to Kṛṣṇa is not considered uncontaminated, because, although such a process implies that one recognizes Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Person, it still involves one in activities on the material platform. Since such activities are within the material universe, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu considered them external. To correct this, Rāmānanda Rāya recommended that one take to the renounced order of life in order to transcend material activities. This is supported by the following verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (11.11.32).

Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu informed Rāmānanda Rāya that knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is more important than caste. In the system of varṇāśrama-dharma there are various duties for the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras.

CC Madhya 8.128, Translation and Purport: “Whether one is a brāhmaṇa, a sannyāsī or a śūdra—regardless of what he is—he can become a spiritual master if he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa.” This verse is very important to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. In his Amṛta-pravāha-bhāṣya, Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura explains that one should not think that because Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was born a brāhmaṇa and was situated in the topmost spiritual order as a sannyāsī, it was improper for Him to receive instructions from Śrīla Rāmānanda Rāya, who belonged to the śūdra caste. To clarify this matter, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu informed Rāmānanda Rāya that knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is more important than caste. In the system of varṇāśrama-dharma there are various duties for the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras. Actually the brāhmaṇa is supposed to be the spiritual master of all other varṇas, or classes, but as far as Kṛṣṇa consciousness is concerned, everyone is capable of becoming a spiritual master because knowledge in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is on the platform of the spirit soul. To spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one need only be cognizant of the science of the spirit soul. It does not matter whether one is a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, sannyāsī, gṛhastha or whatever. If one simply understands this science, he can become a spiritual master.

Teachings of Lord Caitanya

Lord Caitanya gave Rāmānanda Rāya a chance to discuss gradual advancement from the principles of varṇāśrama-dharma (the four castes and four orders of spiritual life). Lord Caitanya rejected the varṇāśrama-dharma and the offering of fruitive activity because in the field of executing pure devotional service, there is very little use for such principles.

Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 28: Although Lord Caitanya accepted these principles, He still requested Rāmānanda Rāya to further explain advanced devotional service. Thus Lord Caitanya gave Rāmānanda Rāya a chance to discuss gradual advancement from the principles of varṇāśrama-dharma (the four castes and four orders of spiritual life). Lord Caitanya rejected the varṇāśrama-dharma and the offering of fruitive activity because in the field of executing pure devotional service, there is very little use for such principles. Without self-realization, the artificial methods of devotional service cannot be accepted as pure devotional service. Self-realized pure devotional service is completely different from all other kinds of transcendental activity. The highest stage of transcendental activity is always free from all material desires, fruitive efforts and speculative attempts at knowledge. The highest stage concentrates on the simple, favorable execution of pure devotional service.

Nectar of Devotion

Lord Caitanya rejected the idea of the importance of varṇāśrama-dharma when it was put forward by Rāmānanda Rāya. He said that this advancement of varṇa and āśrama is merely external. There is a higher principle.

Nectar of Devotion 13: Some scholars argue that simply by following the principles of varṇa and āśrama one can gradually rise to the perfections reached by practicing devotional service, but this argument is not accepted by the great authorities. Lord Caitanya also condemned this idea while He was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya about the gradual development of devotional service. He rejected the idea of the importance of varṇāśrama-dharma when it was put forward by Rāmānanda Rāya. He said that this advancement of varṇa and āśrama is merely external. There is a higher principle. In Bhagavad-gītā also the Lord says that one has to give up all other principles of elevation and take simply to the method of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will help one in achieving the highest perfection of life.

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures

Not like at the present moment, a brāhmaṇa is working, a servant, a śūdra, and he is brāhmaṇa. No. This is called asuric varṇāśrama. Varṇāśrama. Varṇāśrama is very good institution. But still varṇāśrama, perfect varṇāśrama, cannot be possible in this age. Therefore when there was talk between Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Rāmānanda Rāya that how perfection of life can be attained.

Lecture on BG 1.20 -- London, July 17, 1973: This was the duty of the king to see that everyone is employed according to his profession. It was the duty of the king to see. Everyone must be employed. A brāhmaṇa must be working like a brāhmaṇa. A kṣatriya must be working like a kṣatriya. A vaiśya must be working as a... Otherwise he cannot say.

Not like at the present moment, a brāhmaṇa is working, a servant, a śūdra, and he is brāhmaṇa. No. This is called asuric varṇāśrama. Varṇāśrama. Varṇāśrama is very good institution. But still varṇāśrama, perfect varṇāśrama, cannot be possible in this age. Therefore when there was talk between Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Rāmānanda Rāya that how perfection of life can be attained, so Rāmaṇanada Raya first of all quoted a verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa, varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate puṁsāṁ nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam [Cc. Madhya 8.58]

That "When human society accepts this varṇāśrama institution, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vana... This is Vedic civilization. Without this division, there is no civilization. They are animals." So therefore he quoted this verse, varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān: "If anyone is following the principles of varṇāśrama, then he is worshiping Lord Viṣṇu." Because the whole life is meant for worshiping Viṣṇu. The present civilization, they do not know that. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know, rascals, that what is the aim of life. Aim of life is to become Vaiṣṇava, servant of Viṣṇu. Therefore the very word is used, hṛṣīkeśa. Hṛṣīkeśa, He is the guide. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61].

Unless the human society accepts this principle of varṇāśrama-dharma ordained by Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, he is not considered amongst the human being. They are as good as animals because there is no regular, systematic principles of how to live, a human being. Therefore in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa... When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was talking with Rāmānanda Raya, so Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired, "What is the actual aim of life?"

Lecture on BG 1.43 -- London, July 30, 1973: Pradyumna reading: Translation: "O Kṛṣṇa, maintainer of the people, I have heard by disciplic succession that those who destroy family traditions dwell always in hell." Prabhupāda: So family tradition, whose family tradition? Manuṣyāṇāṁ. Family... Manuṣyāṇāṁ, those who are human being, they have got family and family rituals, kula-dharma, jāti-dharma. Just like cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. This is meant for the human being, manuṣyāṇāṁ, not for the animals. So unless the human society accepts this principle of varṇāśrama-dharma ordained by Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, he is not considered amongst the human being. They are as good as animals because there is no regular, systematic principles of how to live, a human being. Therefore in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa... When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was talking with Rāmānanda Raya, so Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired, "What is the actual aim of life?" Sādhya-sādhana [Cc. Madhya 8.118]. Sādhya and sādhana. "What is the aim?" Sādhya means what for this human form of life we have got. That is called sādhya, the goal, the goal of life. And sādhana. Sādhana means the activity by which we can attain, we can achieve that goal of life. This is called sādhya-sādhana.

Actually, India's position or bhāratīya kristi,(?) bhāratīya civilization, is varṇāśrama-dharma. This question was put by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu when He was talking with Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya.

Lecture on BG 4.18 -- Bombay, April 7, 1974: This is our position. We do not know even the meaning. We do not know what is Viṣṇu and how to satisfy Him, what is the meaning of yajña. All forgotten. That is not Vedic civilization. Vedic civilization begins by performing yajña for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu. That is prescribed in the varṇāśrama. We are recognized outside the world as "Hindus." The "Hindu" word is a foreign word. Actually, India's position or bhāratīya kristi,(?) bhāratīya civilization, is varṇāśrama-dharma. This question was put by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu when He was talking with Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya. This Rāmānanda Rāya was governor of Madras under the region of Mahārāja Pratāparudra of Orissa. And Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a sannyāsī. Rāmānanda Rāya belonged to the second class. He was not a brāhmaṇa. In Orissa, the Karana,(?) they are accepted as śūdras. So he belonged to that community, Karana(?) community. But he was so learned in spiritual education that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu agreed to talk with him about spiritual advancement of life.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu questioned Rāmānanda Rāya that "What is the best process of self-realization?" He recommended, first of all, the varṇāśrama-dharma.

Lecture on BG 7.1 -- San Diego, July 1, 1972: So hearing is so important thing. Śravaṇam. Śravaṇam means hearing. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya, the process of self-realization. You will have it. For those who have got Teachings of Lord Caitanya, he'll read it. When Rāmānanda Rāya and Lord Caitanya (were) speaking, so Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked Rāmānanda Rāya, "What is the best process for self-realization?" Because life is meant for self-realization. This human life is meant for self-realization. Ātma-tattvam. Otherwise it is animal life. The animals, they are cats and dogs; they are not interested in self-realization. But human life is meant for self-realization. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu questioned Rāmānanda Rāya that "What is the best process of self-realization?" He recommended, first of all, the varṇāśrama-dharma. Ca...

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]

The real business is viṣṇur ārādhanam. Viṣṇu, the all-pervading Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is within the atom, who is within your heart, and who is also in His Goloka Vṛndāvana, that all-pervading... So varṇāśrama-dharma means how to realize that Supreme, all-pervading Godhead. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇa means four social divisions: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and āśrama means four spiritual divisions: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha... So accepting these four spiritual and four material principles of life, that is humanity. One who is not within this category, varṇāśrama-dharma, he's not accepted as a human being or a civilized human being.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "This is external. Say something better." So in this way, Rāmānanda Rāya was putting some better proposal than varṇāśrama-dharma. Then varṇāśrama-tyāga. Tyāga means renouncing, renounced order. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu's speaking, "No, no. It is ... It is not very important. Go more."

Lecture on BG 7.1 -- San Diego, July 1, 1972: So human civilization does not mean this piling of woods and stones. No. That is not human civilization. Human civilization means brahma-jijñāsā, inquiry. These are the inquiry. "Why? Why I am forced to do this?" These things are taught regularly in the varṇāśrama system. One is made brahmacārī, celibacy, spiritual. One is made a very decently, family life, gṛhastha. One is made retired life, sannyāsī. Very systematical. So if we don't follow the varṇāśrama-dharma, then we are not even human beings. They are cats and dogs. So therefore Rāmānanda Rāya proposed this varṇāśrama... Varṇāśramācāravatā. He quoted from Viṣṇu Purāṇa. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Oh, this is rejected." He immediately rejected. Now, so scientific institution of varṇāśrama-dharma system, coming from very early age, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "This is external. Say something better." So in this way, Rāmānanda Rāya was putting some better proposal than varṇāśrama-dharma. Then varṇāśrama-tyāga. Tyāga means renouncing, renounced order. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu's speaking, "No, no. It is ... It is not very important. Go more."

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to reestablish daiva-varṇāśrama, where brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, everyone. Systematic. We are, therefore, proposing to start a college, varṇāśrama college.

Lecture on BG 7.1 -- Bhuvanesvara, January 22, 1977: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to reestablish daiva-varṇāśrama, where brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, everyone. Systematic. We are, therefore, proposing to start a college, varṇāśrama college. It is proposed... We are trying so many things, but this is also one of the programs, that the people of the world, they should be educated according to the quality and work: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa it is said when Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired from Rāmānanda Rāya... Rāmānanda Rāya belonged to your province. So when there was talk between Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Rāmānanda Rāya, the first topic was "Where is the beginning of human society?" Rāmānanda Rāya replied, quoting from Viṣṇu Purāṇa,

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]

The human society is meant for not only inquiring Brahman but to worship Brahman, Parabrahman. That is human society. So there is necessity of the four classes. At the present moment they are trying to create classless society. That is chaotic society. That is not real society. That is not Vedic civilization. Vedic civilization means when there is classified society begins: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. And without this classification, the whole society will remain in chaotic condition. Just like the comparison is given, mukha-bāhūru. Just like in our body there is mouth, there is ūru, there is leg, there is bāhu. These divisions are required. Mukha means brāhmaṇa, bāhu means kṣatriya, and ūru means the vaiśya, and pāda means śūdra. The body can be maintained when four things are properly maintained. So these things are required, and they should be classified by quality and work. In this way we have to organize society. Then there will be no scarcity of real human being. Otherwise they will remain as animal.

So a systematic society means varṇāśrama-dharma. But there is another way. That is another way. That is called transcendental society, or Vaiṣṇava society. As it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata,

kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

[SB 6.1.15]

Simply by becoming devotees of Vāsudeva, vāsudeva-parāyaṇa, everything can be adjusted. When Rāmānanda Rāya answered Caitanya Mahāprabhu about the systematic society of human being, Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected. He said eho bāhya āge kaha āra. So Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya replied, quoting from other verses from śāstra, karma-tyāga, sannyāsa. In this way, step by step. But when he said that sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ... When Rāmānanda Rāya said that "It doesn't require of any change. Simply if people giving up his own endeavor to understand what is God, what is life. Simply if he remains humbly and hears from the real authority, then by hearing only he can conquer Ajita." Ajita is Bhagavān.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving chance to everyone to hear from the authoritative sources, from the śāstra. Sādhu śāstra guru. These are authorities. So instead of hearing from the unauthorized persons, means... sādhu means who speaks on the basis of śāstra. Guru means who speaks on the basis of śāstra. They're sādhu guru śāstra. And śāstra means the statement of authorities. That is śāstra. Just like Bhagavad-gītā. It is śāstra because it is spoken by the supreme guru, Kṛṣṇa. So who is guru? At the present moment so many unauthorized persons are presenting themselves as guru. But you should be very careful. Guru, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. He says that "I order you that you become guru. And your business is to deliver this country." "This country" means wherever you are living, you can become guru and deliver them. And one may say that "You are asking me to become guru but I have no qualification." A sincere man will say like that, "How can I become guru, and how can I deliver this country?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu says it is not difficult: yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Kṛṣṇa-upadeśa, there are two kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. One kṛṣṇa-upadeśa is what Kṛṣṇa is speaking personally, Bhagavad-gītā. And the other kṛṣṇa-upadeśa, what Vyāsadeva is speaking about Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa sa upadeśa or kṛṣṇena upadeśa. Kṛṣṇena upadeśa—Bhagavad-gītā. And instruction about Kṛṣṇa is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

When Lord Caitanya was speaking with Rāmānanda Rāya... He is a great friend of Lord Caitanya and great devotee, just like Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. So Rāmānanda Rāya was explaining about gradual development of spiritual life. So he recommended so many things—varṇāśrama-dharma, sannyāsa, and renunciation of work. Lord Caitanya says, "No, it is not so good. It is not so good. It is not so good."

Lecture on BG 7.8-14 -- New York, October 2, 1966: The only thing is that our present stage is forgetfulness. We have forgotten, that's all. So we have to revive. We have to revive our spiritual life, our spiritual consciousness. And the simple process is this śravaṇam. This act, which you are performing, is approved by Lord Caitanya. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. When Lord Caitanya was speaking with Rāmānanda Rāya... He is a great friend of Lord Caitanya and great devotee, just like Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. So Rāmānanda Rāya was explaining about gradual development of spiritual life. So he recommended so many things—varṇāśrama-dharma, sannyāsa, and renunciation of work. Lord Caitanya says, "No, it is not so good. It is not so good. It is not so good." In this way, when he was... Rāmānanda Rāya, he was proposing something, that "This is the system of promoting spiritual consciousness," and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was rejecting, "No, no. You say something more, better than." Then he was proposing another, another, another.

Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was discussing with Rāmānanda Rāya about this process of advancing in the spiritual life, so Rāmānanda Rāya first proposed varṇāśrama -dharma.

Lecture on BG 13.26 -- Bombay, October 25, 1973: It is said, śrutvā anyebhya upāsate. These are upāsanā. You know or do not know, when you offer obeisances to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it is immediately taken to your credit. "Oh, this living entity has now offered some respect." Immediately. It is so nice. And then, by hearing, heari...

Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was discussing with Rāmānanda Rāya about this process of advancing in the spiritual life, so Rāmānanda Rāya first proposed varṇāśrama -dharma.

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]

The varṇāśrama system, Vedic system, that is the beginning of human life. Those who are not in the jurisdiction of varṇa and āśrama—four varṇas, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and four āśramas, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vāna—one who does not follow these principles, they are not considered as human being. They are animals, go-kharaḥ. So real human life begins, accepting these principles of varṇa-āśrama. So Rāmānanda Rāya proposed that actual human life... Because human life is meant for realization of God. That is the only necessity, not to increase a type of civilization how instead of eating simple thing, how you can eat beef. That is not advancement of civilization. That is animalism. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśu... What is that advancement? A flesh is eaten by tigers, dogs. So if you have learned how to eat flesh, does it mean that you advance in civilization? It is the business of tigers and dogs. The dog civilization.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures

So this varṇāśrama-dharma was proposed by Rāmānanda Rāya, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya āge kaha āra: "This is not feasible. Better if you know something better than this, you propose."

Lecture on SB 1.2.8 -- Vrndavana, October 19, 1972: So hearing is very important thing. Notpādayed yadi ratim, viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ. Kathā. Hari-kathā. This is accepted by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. When He was talking with Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya on various subject matters, Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya began from the varṇāśrama-dharma, sādhya-sādhana. "What is the aim of human life? How a human being executes his religious principles?" Sādhya-sādhana. So Rāmānanda Rāya began from the varṇāśrama-dharma. Actually, unless the human society comes to the category of varṇāśrama-dharma, he is not a human being; he is animal. Still, in India, because they are still inclined to the system of varṇa and āśrama, there are so many benefit for the Indians. I have traveled all over the world so many times. Because there is no varṇāśrama-dharma, how loose they are. That has been experimented. I have seen. So actually, unless one comes to the standard of varṇāśrama-dharma, he is not considered to be a human being. Therefore the Vedic civilization begins from the varṇāśrama-dharma. And in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa it is said, varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān, viṣṇur ārādhyate [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. Because the ultimate goal is to approach Lord Viṣṇu, viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam.

So this varṇāśrama-dharma was proposed by Rāmānanda Rāya, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya āge kaha āra: "This is not feasible. Better if you know something better than this, you propose." Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu knew that in the Kali-yuga, practically the varṇāśrama-dharma will never be observed, or it will be very difficult to observe. So people by simply observing the varṇāśrama-dharma will not be able to make very much progress in devotional service. Stereotype. In this way, gradually, Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya presented so many proposals. Varṇāśrama-tyāga, jñāna, jñāna-miśra-bhakti, so many ways, and Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected all of them. Eho bāhya āge kaha āra. But when Rāmānanda Rāya read one version which was spoken by Lord Brahmā,

jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva

jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām

sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir

ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām

This verse, when Rāmānanda quoted from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted, and He said, eho haya, "This is nice. This is nice." What is that? That sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. "You remain in your position." It doesn't matter what you are. You may be Indian, you may be American, you may be European, you may be a brāhmaṇa, you may be śūdra, you may be engineer, you may be doctor, you may be fool, you may be rascal. Whatever it may be, it doesn't matter. Sthāne sthitāḥ. Don't be disturbed. Don't try to change your position. But jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Don't try to speculate, "God is like this, God is like that." Speculator, mental speculator. Give up this habit. Just become humble, namra. Jñāne prayāsaṁ namanta. Namanta means namra. Namra, offering obeisances. Just like we offer daṇḍavats. So similarly, namanta, to surrender. In a surrendering spirit, in a humble spirit, try to hear about the Supreme from the realized souls. This is the process. San-mukharitām.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu refused so many other processes of self-realization, beginning from varṇāśrama-dharma, jñāna-miśra-bhakti, karma-miśra-bhakti, karma-tyāga. He, not rejected; he said, "It is external. If you know something more, speak," when He was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya.

Lecture on SB 1.2.17 -- Vrndavana, October 28, 1972: So śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. If we engage ourselves... Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted this process, simply hearing... That is the accepted process, śravaṇam, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu also accepted this process. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. He refused so many other processes of self-realization, beginning from varṇāśrama-dharma, jñāna-miśra-bhakti, karma-miśra-bhakti, karma-tyāga. He, not rejected; he said, "It is external. If you know something more, speak," when He was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya.

So this question was put to Rāmānanda Rāya by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "What is the aim of human life and what is the process of executing that will?" So immediately Rāmānanda Rāya said that varṇāśramācāravatā. The beginning of human life is to execute the varṇāśrama-dharma.

Lecture on SB 1.2.28-29 -- Vrndavana, November 8, 1972: The whole aim of varṇāśrama-dharma... Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. The brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas, the śūdras, the brahmacārī, the gṛhastha, the vānaprastha, and the sannyāsī—this is called varṇāśrama. This is the form of human civilization. Unless one comes to this point of executing the varṇāśrama-dharma, he's animal. Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. This is dharma, to execute varṇāśrama-dharma. That is dharma. So if anyone is not executing this varṇāśrama-dharma, he's animal. Paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is not accepted as human civilization. When Rāmānanda Rāya was questioned by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "What is sādhya and sādhana, what is human duty, sādhya, and what is the end of sādhana...?" Sādhana, sādhana means cultivating something with a aim of objective. So this question was put to Rāmānanda Rāya by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "What is the aim of human life and what is the process of executing that will?" So immediately Rāmānanda Rāya said that varṇāśramācāravatā. The beginning of human life is to execute the varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. Why varṇāśrama? Now viṣṇur ārādhyate. If you properly execute your varṇāśrama-dharma... Actually, it is now pervertedly spoken as Hindu dharma. Hindu dharma is a vague term. Real dharma is varṇāśrama-dharma. Hindu dharma we don't find, any Vedic literature. Neither in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is a, a nomenclature given by the Muhammadans—"Hindus." From Sindhu, "Hindu." Anyway, now we are known as Hindus. The "Hindu" is a vague term. Real term is varṇāśrama, varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas. This is dharma and this is given by God Himself. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. It is given by God. You cannot manufacture dharma, religion. No. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: [SB 6.3.19] "Dharma means the codes, the regulations given by God." That is dharma. That is dharma. Otherwise, it is not dharma.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu, inquired what is the aim of life and what is the procedure of achieving that aim. Rāmānanda Rāya prescribed this varṇāśrama-dharma. Because that is the beginning of actual human life, accepting four varṇas and four āśramas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately rejected, eho bāhya āge kaha āra.

Lecture on SB 1.5.1-8 -- New Vrindaban, May 23, 1969: Śrīdhara Svāmī gives note that if you become a rigid religious person, that does not mean (chuckling) God will be satisfied with you. That is preliminary stage. Dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa [SB 4.8.41]. If one religious man... But that is not the qualification. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya, He, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, inquired what is the aim of life and what is the procedure of achieving that aim. He prescribed this varṇāśrama-dharma. Because that is the beginning of actual human life, accepting four varṇas and four āśramas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately rejected, eho bāhya āge kaha āra. These are not very important things. Just see. The whole Vedic civilization is resting on the varṇāśrama-dharma.

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]

That is the statement, that one who is rigidly performing the rules and regulation of these four varṇas and āśramas... Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate. Simply by following the rules and regulation, varṇāśrama system, one can worship Viṣṇu. Viṣṇur ārādhya... Nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam. There is no alternative to satisfy Him. That... This is an authorized statement. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya āge kaha āra, "This is external. This is not very important thing. If you know something more, that you can say." Eho bāhya āge kaha āra. Āge kaha āra.

So in the beginning Caitanya Mahāprabhu enquired from Rāmānanda Rāya, "What is the aim of life?" Sādhya-sādhana. "What is the aim of life and how to achieve it?" So Rāmānanda Rāya, he was a learned scholar and devotee, he prescribed the varṇāśrama-dharma.

Lecture on SB 1.7.7 -- Vrndavana, April 24, 1975: So these anarthas will increase as long as we are godless rascals and demons. Therefore here it is suggested, anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. If you want to be a right gentleman, means according to your position... If you are a brāhmaṇa, you should act as a brāhmaṇa; if you are a kṣatriya, you should act as a kṣatriya; if you are a vaiśya, you act as a vaiśya; and if you are none of them, then you are a śūdra. In this way, if we live like a gentleman, then we can make progress further in spiritual advancement. If we live foolishly, whimsically, as we like, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ [Bg. 16.23], whatever we like, and others engaged, "Yes, whatever you do, it is right," yata mata tata patha, this is rascaldom. No, you must act according to the śāstra. But there may be question that "Whether it is possible now to revive the old cultural position?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore not condemned but rejected. When He was talking with Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya, so Caitanya Mahāprabhu was putting question, and Rāmānanda Rāya was answering. So in the beginning Caitanya Mahāprabhu enquired from Rāmānanda Rāya, "What is the aim of life?" Sādhya-sādhana. "What is the aim of life and how to achieve it?" So Rāmānanda Rāya, he was a learned scholar and devotee, he prescribed the varṇāśrama-dharma. He said, "This is the beginning of human life." And he quoted a verse from the Viṣṇu Purāṇa,

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]

Because our aim of life is to approach Lord Viṣṇu. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. The modern civilization, they do not know it, na te viduḥ, that what is the aim of life. The aim of life is to satisfy Lord Viṣṇu. This the aim of life. Just like ordinarily, the common citizen, a good citizen, his duty is to abide by the laws of the state. That is called good citizen.

The varṇāśrama-dharma... When Rāmānanda Rāya was asked by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "What is the actual aim of life for which one should work?" so immediately Rāmānanda Rāya quoted one verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa.

Lecture on SB 1.8.36 -- Mayapura, October 16, 1974: Just like we have taken this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are also working very, very hard to collect money and to construct temple and to educate people. This is also working hard. But we have got an aim. It is not without aim. Theoretically or practically, we have accepted it that if we can please Kṛṣṇa, then our future is hopeful. We have got some hope. But what these people have got hope, these karmīs? They have no hope. Simply wild goat chasing, that's all. They do not know what is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know the real aim of life is to satisfy Viṣṇu, svārtha-gatim. Yajña.

The varṇāśrama-dharma... When Rāmānanda Rāya was asked by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "What is the actual aim of life for which one should work?" so immediately Rāmānanda Rāya quoted one verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa that,

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]

The aim is to satisfy Viṣṇu. We should always remember this fact, that we are eternally servant, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or Viṣṇu. As I have given many times the example, there are so many parts of the body, but what are they meant for? To satisfy the belly. You are walking, you are catching, you are thinking, you are doing so many things—what is the aim? The aim is satisfy the stomach. You cook, you earn hard money, and then you purchase goods and cook nicely and put it into the stomach. Is it not?

First of all the Indians are requested to make his life perfect, because how to make life perfect, the process and everything is in India, because here there is varṇāśrama-dharma, the division of the human society: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and āśrama.

Lecture on SB 1.8.42 -- Mayapura, October 22, 1974: Therefore to take birth in India is a privilege. It is a privilege because it is not ordinary thing. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

[Cc. Ādi 9.41]

This para-upakāra, doing welfare activities to others, that is meant for India. But the Indian should first of all make his life perfect. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra, janma sārthaka kari [Cc. Ādi 9.41]'. First of all the Indians are requested to make his life perfect, because how to make life perfect, the process and everything is in India, because here there is varṇāśrama-dharma, the division of the human society: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and āśrama. Now these things are rejected by the Indians, but this is the most scientific method for making life perfect. This is the most scientific method. This was the answer of Rāmānanda Rāya when he was questioned by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "What is the aim of perfection of life, and how to accomplish it?" This is the question was given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So the answer was, immediately,

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]

"The aim of human life, the goal of human life, is to satisfy the Supreme Lord, Viṣṇu." Viṣṇur ārādhyate.

There was discussion between Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So Rāmānanda Rāya began from varṇāśrama-dharma. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected-rejected not wholly. Eho bāhya āge kaha āra: "Yes, this is not bad, but it is not so important."

Lecture on SB 1.8.44 -- Mayapura, October 24, 1974: So we are in material disease at the present moment. We have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, and struggling for existence, we are trying to be happy by manufacturing so many plans. But this will not help us. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu approved this process. What is that?

jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva

jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām

sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir

ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām

There was discussion between Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So Rāmānanda Rāya began from varṇāśrama-dharma. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected-rejected not wholly. Eho bāhya āge kaha āra: "Yes, this is not bad, but it is not so important." Eho bāhya āge kaha āra: "If you know something more..." In this way, gradually, step by step, Rāmānanda Rāya said, "The ultimate goal of life is this," "is that," "is that." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said all of them as external, at least in this age. It is very difficult. Just like in the beginning Rāmānanda Rāya said that varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. He gave stress on the institution of varṇa and āśrama, to observe the rules and regulation of varṇas, four varṇas—to become brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—and four āśramas: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha... But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, bāhya: "Yes, it is good, but it is not so, mean, important, not so important."

Because He knew, in this age, Kali Yuga, who is going to observe this varṇāśrama-dharma? Everyone is śūdra. A śūdra cannot understand this, neither it is possible to bring them back again. Although we are trying, but it is very difficult. Once one has become debauch, to reform him is very difficult. But still there is way. And that way is suggested when... Rāmānanda Rāya suggested that... It is the words of Lord Brahmā that jñāne prayāsam udapāsya: "One should not very much endeavor to speculate, speculating process."

This was quoted from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by Rāmānanda Rāya about the process of approaching Kṛṣṇa. So he suggested so many things. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes, but better process is there. If you know, just describe." So he described, varṇāśrama-dharma, sannyāsa, jñāna-miśra-bhakti, karma-miśra-bhakti, in this way, everything Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected. Eho bāhya āge kaha āra. "This is external. This is not very good. If you know something more better, you speak."

Lecture on SB 1.10.5 -- London, August 28, 1973: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. This is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva

jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām

sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir

ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām

This was quoted from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by Rāmānanda Rāya about the process of approaching Kṛṣṇa. So he suggested so many things. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes, but better process is there. If you know, just describe." So he described, varṇāśrama-dharma, sannyāsa, jñāna-miśra-bhakti, karma-miśra-bhakti, in this way, everything Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected. Eho bāhya āge kaha āra. "This is external. This is not very good. If you know something more better, you speak." So when at last he said this verse, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva... If one becomes submissive and does not endeavor to understand Kṛṣṇa by his so-called limited knowledge, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta, one has to become sub... The whole devotional department is submissiveness. Because under the influence of māyā, everyone is falsely proud. "Oḥ, I am so intelligent. I can do everything." This is the disease, material. Everyone is falsely proud.

This varṇāśrama-dharma is very important. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that it is very difficult even to execute the rules and regulation of varṇāśrama-dharma in this age. Actually that is a fact. Therefore, after explaining varṇāśrama-dharma before Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya: "Yes, it is one of the processes, but in this age it is very difficult."

Lecture on SB 3.25.30 -- Bombay, November 30, 1974: So in order to get the mercy of guru, so yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **, we must search out a bona fide spiritual master, representative of Kṛṣṇa or Kapiladeva, and then we shall submit and offer service. In this way we shall please the guru, and if he is satisfied, then our business is complete. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended this process, this process, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. The process of understanding or approaching the Supreme Personality of Godhead is this. Caitanya Mahāprabhu approved this when He was discussing with Rāmānanda Rāya. So the process of approaching the Supreme Lord... So he first of all explained the varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān, viṣṇur ārādhyate [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. The human life is for viṣṇur ārādhanam. That is the human life, Viṣṇur ārādhanam. In varṇāśrama, the system... Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam [Bg. 4.13], Kṛṣṇa says. Why establish this cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam? Because through the cātur-varṇya, systematic institution, following the rules and regulations of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, one can approach Lord Viṣṇu. Viṣṇur ārādhyate. This varṇāśrama-dharma is very important. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that it is very difficult even to execute the rules and regulation of varṇāśrama-dharma in this age. Actually that is a fact. Therefore, after explaining varṇāśrama-dharma before Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya: "Yes, it is one of the processes, but in this age it is very difficult." Who is going to be brāhmaṇa? It is very difficult. Especially it has become very difficult in India. We are advertising, we are soliciting, "Please come here in this Hare Kṛṣṇa Land and just become a brāhmaṇa-vaiṣṇava, and we shall try to serve you by giving you good place," but nobody is coming. Therefore it is very difficult to revive the old varṇāśrama-dharma culture.

Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya quoted this when Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired from him what is sādhya-sādhana. "What is the business of the human society and what is the aim of human society?" This was the question put forward by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He first of all quoted varṇāśrama. The human society begins when there is varṇāśrama-dharma. Otherwise it is animal society.

Lecture on SB 5.5.29 -- Vrndavana, November 16, 1976: Real principle is varṇāśrama-dharma. Varnāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur arādhyate [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. This is the aim of life, how to worship Viṣṇu. That is explained, and that is the training of this varṇāśrama-dharma. Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya quoted this when Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired from him what is sādhya-sādhana. "What is the business of the human society and what is the aim of human society?" This was the question put forward by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He first of all quoted varṇāśrama. The human society begins when there is varṇāśrama-dharma. Otherwise it is animal society. There is no human society. That is beginning of human society, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam [Bg. 4.13]. My Guru Mahārāja also wanted to establish daiva-varṇāśrama. Yes. There must be the human society, not this, daiva-varṇāśrama, not this āsuric varṇāśrama. Āsuric varṇāśrama... Just like Rāvaṇa. He was also son of a brāhmaṇa, but he was rejected, that "You are not brāhmaṇa; you are rākṣasa because you do not care for Bhagavān Rāmacandra." So this is the verdict of the śāstra. So therefore daiva-varṇāśrama. Varnāśrama should be established on the principles of devata, to make people devata. Devata means viṣṇu bhaktaḥ bhaved daiva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Unless one is not a Vaiṣṇava, he cannot be a devata. He cannot be a civilized man.

Without Vedic culture and varṇāśrama-dharma it is animal civilization. When Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was talking, Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired from Rāmānanda Rāya, "What is the beginning of life?" Sādhya-sādhana."What is the object, objective of the ultimate goal of life, and how that objective of life is attained?"

Lecture on SB 5.6.4 -- Vrndavana, November 26, 1976: So unfortunately we are forgetting our culture; otherwise we have got a great mission, Indians, for the others, para-upakāra. They require the information of this Vedic knowledge, and they are now getting. They are appreciating. Therefore there is movement against it, but it is actual civilization. The Vedic culture is actual civilization, varṇāśrama-dharma. That is the beginning of civilization. Without Vedic culture and varṇāśrama-dharma it is animal civilization. When Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was talking, Caitanya Mahāprabhu inquired from Rāmānanda Rāya, "What is the beginning of life?" Sādhya-sādhana."What is the object, objective of the ultimate goal of life, and how that objective of life is attained?" Sādhya-sādhyana. Sādhya means the objective thing, and sādhana means the process. Sādhya-sādhana. So Rāmānanda Rāya, he said, varṇāśrama. Varṇāśrama. That is the beginning of life. Because varṇāśrama means... The life is... Human life is meant for understanding the Supreme Lord. That is human life. The cats' and dogs' life is not meant for understanding God; it is not possible either. They cannot understand. But the evolutionary process, when you come to the civilized form of life, especially the Vedic culture...

One who does not take to this varṇāśrama-dharma, he remains in the animal life. That is the Vedic system. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu enquired from Rāmānanda Rāya, "What is the aim of life?" Rāmānanda Rāya immediately replied that...

Lecture on SB 6.1.24 -- Chicago, July 8, 1975: So when one is fully equipped in knowledge, then he asks his wife to go to home to be taken care of by the elderly children, and he becomes a sannyāsī. This is called varṇāśrama-dharma. This is real purpose of life. Four varṇas, four classes of men, up to fourth class, not up to tenth class. And then spiritual life: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. This institution is called varṇāśrama-dharma: four varṇas and four āśrama. So when one is educated or trained up by this varṇāśrama institution, then his human life begins. Otherwise he is animal. One who does not take to this varṇāśrama-dharma, he remains in the animal life. That is the Vedic system. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu enquired from Rāmānanda Rāya, "What is the aim of life?" Rāmānanda Rāya immediately replied that,

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]

The real purpose of life, goal of life, is to satisfy Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu, Lord, the Supreme Lord, or Kṛṣṇa. This is life, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to know Kṛṣṇa, and try to satisfy Him. That is life.

So to enter into this elevated life, fulfilling the desire or the aim of life is varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān, viṣṇur ārādhyate. Viṣṇur ārādhyate, that is required, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious or Viṣṇu conscious and to worship Him. So that begins with this varṇāśrama. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He knew that this is Kali-yuga; it is very, very difficult to engage people strictly in the varṇāśrama-dharma. Actually it is difficult. Who is going... If you open a varṇāśrama college, there will be no student. Because they will think, "What is this nonsense, varṇāśrama? Let us learn technology. We shall get good salary. We shall earn money." Yes. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra. In this age it is not possible, varṇāśrama-dharma. So āge kaha āra: "If you know something better than this, you say." So in this way Rāmānanda Rāya recommended that karma-tyāga, sannyāsa, so many stages. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu went on saying, eho bāhya āge kaha āra: "This is useless now. If you know better, then something, something." So then at last—not at last, in the middle—Rāmānanda Rāya said that jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva..., namanta eva, bhavadīya-vārtām, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. The purport is that all these processes recommended in the śāstra, varṇāśrama-dharma, acceptance of sannyāsa, or other, karma-tyāga, miśra, karma-miśra-jñāna... There are so many things.

So Rāmānanda Raya began with varṇāśrama dharma, the institution of four orders of social and four orders of spiritual life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, "It is not very important nowadays."

Lecture on SB 6.1.40 -- Los Angeles, June 6, 1976: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was talking with Rāmānanda Raya, how to cultivate spiritual knowledge, how to know the ultimate goal of life, sādhya sādhana, what is the aim of life and what is the process to approach the aim of life... This was the talk between Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So Rāmānanda Raya began with varṇāśrama dharma, the institution of four orders of social and four orders of spiritual life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, "It is not very important nowadays." Yes, eho bāhya, āge kahe āra, "If you know something more, better than this..." Then he... Karma-tyāga, sannyāsa, so many, step by step, he said, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu denied, "Yes, it is right, but it is not very important." Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said..., uh, Rāmānanda Rāya said, quoting from the Vedas, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtāṁ (sthāne sthitāḥ) śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṇ-manobhir (ye) prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām. "If you want to know who is God, what is God, then give up your, this speculative endeavor." Jñāne prayāsam. Prayāsa means endeavor: "May be like this," "Perhaps like this." No. You give up this habit. Jñane prayāsam udapāsya, give up this bad habit. Then? How? Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva: "Just become humble and meek. Don't declare yourself a great philosopher or great learned scholar and..." No. That is not the process. "Now I am a learned scholar, I can discover God, I can manufacture God." No. Give up this bad habit. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya—be humble. If you know to know God, then be humble. In the Bible also it is said, "God is for the meek and the humble," not for the impudent.

Rāmaṇanda Raya replied that "First of all to begin this varṇāśrama dharma." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra: "Yes, this is all right. But this is external. If you know something better, please tell me."

Lecture on SB 7.6.1 -- Madras, January 2, 1976:

Acyutānanda: One more question, last question. Is it necessary that a person should pass through the three āśramas, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, before coming to sannyāsa?

Prabhupāda: That is the normal rules and regulation, that especially brāhmaṇa, he must go through the four āśramas, first of all become brahmacārī, then gṛhastha, then vānaprastha, then take sannyāsa. This is for the brāhmaṇas. And for the kṣatriyas, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, and vānaprastha. And for the vaiśyas, brahmacārī, gṛhastha. And for the śūdras, only gṛhastha. This is the process. This is normal process. But either one is brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vai\ zya and śūdra, if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness he becomes above these rules and regulations. (applause) Yes.

māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi

bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

brahma-bhūyāya kalpate

[Bg. 14.26]

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that it is giving immediate lift to everyone to come to the transcendental platform, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. But general state is varṇāśrama-dharma. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when he was discussing with Rāmānanda Rāya, he first of all said, "What is the aim of life?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu (was) asking. So Rāmaṇanda Raya replied that "First of all to begin this varṇāśrama dharma." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra: "Yes, this is all right. But this is external. If you know something better, please tell me." So in this way, step by step, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... This varṇa, āśrama, dharma, karma-tyāga, karma-sannyāsa, and karma-miśra-bhakti, jñāna-miśra-bhakti—everything was described by Rāmānanda Rāya, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu not rejected. He said, "It is all right, but if you know something better..." Then at last, when Rāmānanda said... (aside:) Stop it. When Rāmaṇanda said that, quoting one verse from Śrīmad-Bhagavatam, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ, that it doesn't matter what you are. You remain in your post. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatām. Through the oral reception if you hear about Kṛṣṇa, then you become perfect. That is the statement.

Whatever Rāmānanda Rāya was proposing, "This is the beginning of bhakti..." He suggested varṇāśrama-dharma, karma-tyāga, karma-sannyāsa, even full surrender, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. All, everything, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya āge kaha: "These are external formality. If you know something better than this, please explain."

Lecture on SB 7.9.3 -- Mayapur, February 10, 1976: Karma means fruitive action. Not that because you are a very big businessman, you are very successful, therefore it will be easy for you to understand Kṛṣṇa. No. That is not possible. Or if you think one is very poor in knowledge, lowborn, no education, still he can understand bhakti and Lord, provided he is pure devotee. So material conditions, they are not practically applicable to spiritual life. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, therefore, He said, eho bāhya āge kaha āra. Whatever Rāmānanda Rāya was proposing, "This is the beginning of bhakti..." He suggested varṇāśrama-dharma, karma-tyāga, karma-sannyāsa, even full surrender, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. All, everything, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya āge kaha: "These are external formality. If you know something better than this, please explain." So Rāmānanda Rāya, when, I mean to say, quoted a verse from Brahma's prayer, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ prāyeṇa ajita api jito... Kṛṣṇa is ajita. Nobody can conquer Him.

Karma, jñāna, yoga, dhyanavista, bhakti, so many things, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was denying one after another, eho bāhya āge kaha, "This is not. This is external." Rāmānanda Rāya began from the varṇāśrama-dharma, because that is the beginning of civilization.

Lecture on SB 7th SB -- Calcutta, March 7, 1972: Richness or poverty is no hampering. Because spiritual life is so great, so sublime, that is this ahaitukī hata. No material thing can check your spiritual progress. The only qualification you require, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted when he was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya, he was prescribing one after another different processes. Karma, jñāna, yoga, dhyanavista, bhakti, so many things, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was denying one after another, eho bāhya āge kaha, "This is not. This is external." He began from the varṇāśrama-dharma, because that is the beginning of civilization.

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]

Because unless one comes to the institute of varṇāśrama-dharma—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa, gṛhastha—they are not considered as civilized. So he began from this, Rāmānanda Rāya. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said eho bāhya āge kaha, "This is external. If you know something more, you can explain." Then he recommended karma-tyāga. That is also Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, "It is external." In this way, when Rāmānanda quoted one verse from Brahmā's prayer in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. Jñāne prayāsam. Brahmā recommended that one should not endeavor by his individual effort to approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One's business should be that he may not change his position. Means he may remain a gṛhastha, he may remain a brāhmaṇa or śūdra or a sannyāsī, it doesn't matter. In whatever position he is, he is all right. The only business is that you should not be proud of mental speculation, jñāna-tyāga. You have to give up this practice of mental speculation, but you try to understand the Supreme Lord by hearing from a realized soul. San-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. Then the result will be gradually, although the Supreme Lord is never conquerable, still He will be conquered. Ajito 'py jito 'py asi. Ajita, nobody can conquer. But simply by hearing about Him, you go on hearing, hearing about Him, one day you will find that the Supreme Lord has been conquered by you, you have become victorious. That conquered means you have understood the whole science of Kṛṣṇa, whole special science. This is recommended by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement follows this principle. We are trying to give opportunity, every man, to hear about Kṛṣṇa.

That is the beginning of civilized life. Otherwise, it is not civilized life; it is crude, uncivilized life, where there is no varṇāśrama, where there (is) no division of society according to work and quality and āśrama, spiritual life division.

His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada's Appearance Day, SB 6.3.24 -- Gorakhpur, February 15, 1971: When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was discussing with Rāmānanda Rāya what is the process of elevation, sādhya, sādhana, what is the ultimate objective, Rāmānanda Rāya quoted a verse from the Viṣṇu Purāṇa that,

varṇāśramācāravatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

[Cc. Madhya 8.58]

The beginning of real human civilization is observance of the institute of four varṇas and four āśramas. That is the beginning of civilized life. Otherwise, it is not civilized life; it is crude, uncivilized life, where there is no varṇāśrama, where there (is) no division of society according to work and quality and āśrama, spiritual life division. So Rāmānanda Rāya recommended this verse, that this is the process to satisfy the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that eho bāhya āge kaha āra, "This is external. If you know something more, better than this, you say." Why He said? There is the version, viṣṇur ārādhyate. Does it mean that He is rejecting Viṣṇu worship? No, He's not rejecting. Because generally, they, these impersonalists, Māyāvādīs, they also worship sometimes Viṣṇu, these five demigods and God. But their idea is that ultimately impersonal. The impersonal takes the form by the help of this material world. The formation takes place simply in the material. That is their opinion. Therefore they say, call, saguṇa. Saguṇa-upāsanā.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

This is the first time that systematically we are presenting what is actual Vedic dharma or Bhāgavata-dharma. This question was raised by Rāmānanda Rāya before Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Varṇāśrama, he quoted this verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra. "Yes, it is all right, varṇāśrama-dharma, but it is now external. If you know something better, you speak." So in this way the whole system was discussed.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: So at the present moment there is no brāhmaṇa, qualified. Therefore the society is in chaos. In chaotic condition, all are searching after something substantial. That is the position of the Western countries. They have heard so many things about India's culture. Still, they respect India's culture, spiritual culture. They are hankering after. But unfortunately the so-called yogis, swamis, come and cheat them. That is the difficulty. This is the first time that systematically we are presenting what is actual Vedic dharma or Bhāgavata-dharma. This question was raised by Rāmānanda Rāya before Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Varṇāśrama, he quoted this verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra. "Yes, it is all right, varṇāśrama-dharma, but it is now external. If you know something better, you speak." So in this way the whole system was discussed. At last Caitanya Mahāprabhu approved this system of śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23]. Chanting and hearing about Viṣṇu. Varṇāśrama-dharma is also Viṣṇu. Viṣṇur ārādhyate. The real purpose is understanding Viṣṇu the Supreme. So varṇāśrama-dharma is also meant for understanding Viṣṇu. Viṣṇur ārādhyate. So... But these formulas of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, it is the, the age is so rotten that it is very difficult to revive this varṇāśrama-dharma culture. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra. Yes, it is all right, but it is external now. It cannot be utilized at the present moment. So when Rāmānanda Rāya stated, citing one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām. If one simply hears about Viṣṇu, never mind in whatever condition he is, then he can understand what is God.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

As soon as he suggested varṇāśrama-dharma, Rāmaṇanda Rāya, immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "It is not very important. If you know better than this, you go on." He did not give any, much stress on this varṇāśrama-dharma. But for regulated life, that is required. And ultimately, it is not required.

Meeting with GBC -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur: Prabhupāda: ...otherwise, we recommend everyone become sannyāsa. What is the use of not becoming? (all laugh) We are giving up this world. We are preparing ourself for entering into the family of Kṛṣṇa. So why should we be very much anxious to maintain this family. So actually... Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says; "I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a gṛhastha. I'm not a brahmacārī." These four, eight varṇāśrama-dharma is unecessary for spiritually. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was speaking with Rāmānanda Rāya... You'll find in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya... As soon as he suggested varṇāśrama-dharma, Rāmaṇanda Rāya, immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "It is not very important. If you know better than this, you go on." He did not give any, much stress on this varṇāśrama-dharma. But for regulated life, that is required. And ultimately, it is not required. So it is not recommended for ordinary persons. But this is also unnecessary. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching is so sublime, that such things, which is the beginning of human life, that is also unnecessary. Iha bahya age kaha ara. Bahya means "this is superflous. You speak something higher than this." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So that is not very easy thing. First of all, we have to live very regulated life. Sannyāsa life is that regulated life. And then we can enter into the real life. That is ideal. So anything more?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Not rejected. "Yes, it is not very important." Eho bāhya: "This is external." Āge kaha āra: "If you know something more." So the varṇāśrama-dharma is a good help undoubtedly, but it is not important for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- February 9, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Dāya. Dāya means legally inheritance. That is called dāya. Just like your father's money you get automatically. So similarly, kanyā-dāya means to get the girl married is a dāya. You cannot refuse it. It is incumbent, you must do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So many of our, the girls in our society, they have reached that age, but they are not getting married.

Prabhupāda: No, your society is different. Now it is here also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean in ISKCON, in our society.

Prabhupāda: ISKCON is not going to be social reformer, but as far as possible, we can help. Our main business is how to make everyone Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is our business. We cannot take up, but if possible, we can take up all the system of varṇāśrama.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If varṇāśrama is neglected, then how can there be proper functioning of society?

Prabhupāda: No. If the society chants Hare Kṛṣṇa seriously, then it is all right. Never mind whatever is done. It doesn't matter. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is the power of hari-saṅkīrtana. If one is absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all benefit is there. So long in the bodily concept of life, we require this varṇāśrama-dharma. Otherwise there is no necessity.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu you have read in the eighth chapter, Madhya-līlā, talk between Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu? So "Perfectional life how begins?" This question was raised by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and Rāmānanda replied, "It begins with the varṇāśrama-dharma, regulated social life."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He rejected that.

Prabhupāda: Not rejected. "Yes, it is not very important." Eho bāhya: "This is external." Āge kaha āra: "If you know something more." So the varṇāśrama-dharma is a good help undoubtedly, but it is not important for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise how could I start this movement in the Western country? There was no varṇāśrama-dharma. But that did not hamper my movement. Now people are surprised: "How these people have become such great devotees." So it was not based on varṇāśrama-dharma, no, because the whole movement is spiritual. It starts from the spiritual platform, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ, bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ param. Now just like here is a gap. So you can go by the bridge, and if you can jump over, that is also going. That is also going. So to become Kṛṣṇa conscious means to jump over to the spiritual platform immediately. And this varṇāśrama-dharma, sannyāsa, varṇa-tyāga, karma-tyāga, these are different steps only. But if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious seriously, then you jump over all these steps; you go immediately. That lift and the staircase. By staircase you go step by step. By lift you can go immediately, faster.