Prabhupāda: Durvāsā Muni was brāhmaṇa and a great yogi. So he could not tolerate that a householder king... King is supposed to be dealing in politics, economics. Therefore, according to social position, he is lesser than the brāhmaṇa because they are simply engaged in the matter of transcendental advancement of life. But a devotee is above the brāhmaṇas. That is the position of devotee. Here, the highest qualitative position is to be situated in the modes of goodness or to acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa, in this material world. Truthfulness, controlling the senses, controlling the mind, simplicity and knowledge, faith in God, there are so many qualifications which makes a person as recognized brāhmaṇa. But a devotee, never mind whether he's brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla, he automatically develop all these qualities.
- 1 Conversations and Morning Walks
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So Rāma... Bhagavān has different forms: rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan (Bs. 5.39). Bhagavān (Hindi).
Guest: That's good. So that explains...
Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu-tattva. That is called Viṣṇu-tattva.
Guest: In that expansion can't we take Durgā and Siva, even for...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is śakti-tattva. We have to take expansion according to the tattva. Substance and categories; in which category. The substance is Viṣṇu, and all other tattvas are categories. So devatās, they are śakti-tattva, śakti category, the same category as you are. The same example. Just like here a government officer, he is also Indian gentleman, you are also Indian gentleman, but he has got his power on account of his high qualities. Similarly you can become also Durgā. You can become Indra, Candra, Sūrya. So qualitatively the ant, you are a learned brāhmaṇa, they are all the same category.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Soul, as spirit soul, pure soul, they are all equal. Even in animal. Therefore it is said, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18), means those who are actually learned, they do not see the outward covering, either human being or animal.
Bob: Oh, then they are all equal and the same, or just equal? Are they equal and the same, or are they just equal?
Prabhupāda: No, equal and the same. Qualitatively and quantitatively.
Śyāmasundara: I thought there was also a difference.
Śyāmasundara: Isn't there also individuality and difference?
Prabhupāda: Their individuality becomes different in accordance with the development of consciousness.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is explained nicely in today's Bhāgavata śloka that by the influence of Kṛṣṇa, the rivers are flowing filled with water, the trees are bearing fruits, flowers of the...
Prabhupāda: That's a fact. I have several times explained that in higher sense there is no matter. Did I not? So life and matter equal, that can be accepted, but there is superior and inferior position. Just like Kṛṣṇa is life, I am also life. Kṛṣṇa is also person, I am also person. Kṛṣṇa has got... What Kṛṣṇa, propensities He has got, I have also got. Kṛṣṇa wants to love another girl, so I want to love. A girl wants to love another boy, so Rādhārāṇī wants to love Kṛṣṇa. So everything qualitatively are all equal, but Kṛṣṇa can marry at a time millions of wives. You cannot maintain even one wife. That is the position. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaḥ, Vedas say. That is the difference. He is life, I am also life. All the life symptoms, there is in Kṛṣṇa and there is in me, but still I am inferior, He is superior. And that is the law, that the inferior should be subordinately serving to the superior. Therefore we want to..., our business is to serve Kṛṣṇa, although qualitatively we are one. That inferior, superior, that is the difference between God and the living entity.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I can understand that matter is a part of life.
Prabhupāda: This matter... You can understand by the finger. This matter, this nail, is production of this part. This part is life and this part is not life. But it is a production of this life. When you have cut your nails, you don't feel pain. But same instrument you touch your little, half inch down, immediately you feel pain. So therefore although qualitatively... This is also produced of matter, as produced of this part. But where there is feeling, that is spiritual, and where there is no feeling, that is matter. What is Kṛṣṇa consciousness? The human being is the same. But as soon as he feels that "There is Kṛṣṇa," he is spiritualist. As soon as he does not feel, he is materialist. That is the difference. It is the question of feeling. Matter means where there is absence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In other things there is also consciousness. Because there is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is material. And so far we are concerned, we have got the same consciousness, but Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore we are superior, spiritual. So this material world means this part, and spiritual world means this part. This is the difference. Here you have got feeling. So the conclusion is when you have feeling in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is spiritual, that is superior. When you have no feeling of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is inferior. The same thing can be turned into superior and inferior by the change of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Karandhara: Well, they say it can be checked by time and education.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that time, you wait for time. By that time you will die.
Karandhara: Well, just like a hundred years ago in the United States...
Prabhupāda: No. These discrepancies will go on because this whole material world is being conducted by three qualities. You will have three qualitative persons.
Karandhara: Well, they think they are making progress...
Prabhupāda: That they are making progress everyone knows, what kind of progress they are making.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, anyone. The bodily concept of life is animalism. When we think that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," then there is peace. Otherwise there cannot be any peace. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). In the Vedic literature it is described that persons who is in the bodily concept of life, he is exactly like the cow and the ass. That means animal. So people has to transcend this qualitative conception of existence. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. You will find this verse. Find out this verse,
- māṁ ca 'vyabhicāriṇi-
- bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
- sa guṇān samatītyaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
Nitāi: Yes, 14.26.
- māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
- bhakti-yogena sevate
- sa guṇān samatītyaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
"One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down in any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman."
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are created as being controlled. So instead of aspiring to become controller, if we remain controlled, that is our natural position. But some rascals, they are trying to become controller, "I am... By meditation I have become God." But if you are a God, then how you have become dog? This is going on. The cheating, the so-called swamis. Do they not say, "I am God?" Do they not say? "I am God. You are God. Everyone God."
Guest (2): No, some... Some might say that, but...
Prabhupāda: But some of them, I am talking, the some of them. Some of them are not all foolish. Some of them are foolish. So these foolish persons, they say that "I am God. You are God. Everyone is God." That is foolishness. We are not God. We are part and parcel of God, qualitatively one. But we are not the Supreme Being. We are living being but not Supreme Being.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Yoga student: He can't touch the globe because he would be consumed.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, the qualitative change. But it is... There are five elements, so it is made of fire, that's all. As your body is made of earth, that sun globe or the sun-god, the body is made of fire, that's all. There are other planets also; the body is made of air because you do not find more than these five elements, earth, water, air, fire, sky-gross; and subtle—mind, intelligence and ego. So subtle, the same, but gross—somewhere the fire is prominent; somewhere water is prominent, air is prominent; somewhere earth is prominent. So here in this world, in this planet, the earth is prominent.
Guest: He can't really touch the globe because he would be consumed.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, qualitative change. But if, there are five elements. It is made of fire, that's all. As your body is made of earth, that sun globe or sun god's body is made of fire. There are other planets also, the body is made of air. Because you do not find more than these five elements—earth, water, air, fire, sky-gross and subtle—mind, intelligence. So, subtle, the same gross, somewhere fire is prominent, somewhere water is prominent, air is prominent, somewhere earth is prominent. So here in this world, in this planet, the earth is prominent.
Prabhupāda: Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). "Now you do whatever you like."
Jayatīrtha: Because Kṛṣṇa is independent, therefore the part and parcels...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Part and parcel must have a little portion of independence. Qualitatively, part and parcel means... Just like you take a drop of water from the sea. The, all the chemical composition is there in the drop. So Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. So we living entities we are drop. Still, the independence quality is there in minute quantity.
Prabhupāda: As soon as I want a smaller car, not smaller car, I want bigger car, smaller car also. That is change. Whatever you deserve. You desire; at the same time, you deserve. First deserve, then desire. Just like these rascals, "I desire to become God." That kind of desire will never be fulfilled.
Yadubara: It's according to the qualification also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Your position is very minute. So you can desire up to that limit, not that you can desire "I become complete, universal." That is the defect of the Māyāvāda. "Because I am equal... So 'ham. Because I am qualitatively one, therefore I am one in every respect." A drop of ocean water, if he desires, "I become ocean," that is not possible. But a drop of ocean water contains the same ingredients as the big Pacific Ocean. So in your quantitative proportion, if you desire, that is your perfection.
Prabhupāda: Just like gold and little portion of gold. Both of them are gold, but the big gold and the small gold, that is different. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, qualitatively we are one; quantitatively we are different. Although we are different, still, in the spiritual world we can enjoy the same facilities in cooperation with God. We are trying to be happy in this material world. That is not possible. Because here there are four principles of miserable condition, which we cannot avoid. They are birth, death, old age and disease. In the spiritual world there is no such thing as birth, death, old age, and disease. Therefore in this life, in the human form of life, where we come after evolutionary process, 8,400,000 species of life, our consciousness being developed, we should decide now whether we shall remain within this material world or we shall go to the spiritual world where the life is eternal. There is no birth, death, old age and disease. So the Vedic civilization trains all human being how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is Vedic civilization.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes, so 'ham asmi—because I am part and parcel.
Acyutānanda: No, but it says "I am that, " not that "I am part of that."
Acyutānanda: "I am that." "Like unto..."
Prabhupāda: If it is said, it can be accepted, because I am qualitatively the same.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Quantity, much difference.
Acyutānanda: No, but the direct statement...
Prabhupāda: I am.... If I say, "I am Indian," what is the wrong there, if I say, "I am Indian"?
Acyutānanda: That is something else.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not something else.
Prabhupāda: But because you have accepted this material body, you are foolishly thinking that you are not eternal. Otherwise, as God is eternal, you are also eternal.
Acyutānanda: Then why should one be distinguished from another if they are both eternal?
Prabhupāda: Just like the sun distinguished from the sunshine, but qualitatively heat and light is there. But because sunshine is there, you cannot say sun is there. That you cannot say. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Clearly said.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: I think, Swamijī, you explained this, and I could draw rationality from it, that "I am īśa, but not I am sarveśa. I am ātman but not Paramātman."
Prabhupāda: They make modernized meaning of Bhagavad-gītā. That is insanity. Do you agree or...
Reporter (1): What would you regard to be the essence of Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā means that there is God, and we are part and parcel of God. God is great, and we are very tiny, small, fragmental portion of God. In quality we and God are the same, just like a drop of ocean water is qualitatively the same as the big ocean.
Prabhupāda: Qualitatively is the same. The drop of ocean water is salty, and the whole ocean is also salty. The salt taste is there, but the drop is never equal to the ocean. This is the difference. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś... This is the Vedic..., that He is also living entity as we are. So we many, plural number.... "We" means living entities. We are many, and He is one. But He is also living entity. Now what is the difference? The difference is that He maintains the plural number living entities.
Reporter (1): He maintains the?
Prabhupāda: Plural, plural number. Plural.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Plural.
Prabhupāda: Living entities. And the plural number living entities are maintained by Him.
Reporter (2): In the past.... I should start this way.... This is the first press conference you are holding in Delhi, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: You can come forward.
Mr. Davis: Everyone's body, therefore the thing we have in common is we are all a part of the spirit.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is fact. We are part and parcel of the supreme spirit, God. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel." Qualitatively, we are one. Just like a small particle of gold is also gold. It is nothing else. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, we have got that godly qualification. God can create. We can also create. That example I have given in my last magazine, that we have created this big 747 airplane, but we cannot create a mosquito. That is also plane, with pilot. That is God's creation. So the creative power, both of us, we have got, but we are limited, and He is unlimited. That is the difference. A drop of seawater contains the same chemicals, but the quantity of Atlantic Ocean and drop of Atlantic Ocean is not the same. So we are just like drop of the Atlantic Ocean, and God is Atlantic Ocean. That is the difference. But chemically test, the whole Atlantic Ocean is salty, we are also salty. Whatever chemical composition is Atlantic Ocean, we are also of the same chemical composition. And because we are part and parcel of God, therefore we show sometimes activities very wonderful, but still, God's activities are still more wonderful. That we cannot compare. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Potential different, because a lump of gold and a small particle of gold, the value is not the same. Gold it is quality, but not the value the same. That you cannot say.
Mr. Malhotra: Qualitative it is gold, but...
Prabhupāda: But quantity it is different. God is all-pervading. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). God is all-pervading, He is in everyone's heart. Can you live in everyone's heart? Can you know what I am thinking? Then how you can become God?
Mr. Malhotra: Well there are...
Prabhupāda: There are fools, rascals. There are others.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but he remains a disciple of his guru. He will never say that "Now I have become guru, so I don't care for my guru." He will never say. Just like I am doing, but I am worshiping my guru still. So I remain subordinate to my guru, always. Even though I have become guru, still I am subordinate to my guru.
Mr. Malhotra: But qualitatively...
Prabhupāda: Qualitatively equal I have already said. Not quantitatively.
Mr. Malhotra: Qualitatively we are one. Quantitatively.
Prabhupāda: Why? Do you think a grain of gold and a big gold lump is same?
Mr. Malhotra: Gold, I think I am also gold.
Prabhupāda: No, gold that is accepted, quality. That if you say, this is explanation. You must have brain to understand. That a small particle of gold and a big gold, they are gold in quality but the big gold is millions of dollars and a small particle is few dollars. Just see this is accepted. This Māyāvāda theory has made people atheists, that "I am God, I am equal to God." Very bad theory.
Dr. Patel: Deva-bhūmi, deva-bhūmi. Prabhupāda: Yes.