Prove (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"prove" |"proved" |"proven" |"prover" |"proving"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is starting here also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, gradually. As soon as you kill, then you must be killed. This law is there: life for life. So where is your independence? Independence means you are inviting more sufferings, that's all. You go on, declare your independence. We are the only sane man. We have accepted that "We have no independence." Here Kṛṣṇa is asking. "Let me surrender unto..." That's all. So we have to convince the people, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific. You are foolishly rascal. You are trying to be independent. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa is asking to surrender. You do that." That will make him happy. In many varieties of ways we have to convince them and prove that "You are foolishly thinking that there is independent, so-called scientific advancement, and only promising, 'Yes, in future we shall be like this, be like this.' " What is future? Just take account of your present position.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: We have to preach to them so that they understand the value of this movement.

Prabhupāda: (break) Europeans, they are coming here not for religion, but they are coming for the Kṛṣṇa culture. You have to make that. Religion they have already got, Christian. Why they should come?

Mahāṁsa: They will say that this Kṛṣṇa culture is Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: Then he's a rascal. Prove it in the court. Kṛṣṇa is not Hinduism. Never.... Is there anything in the Bhagavad-gītā that Kṛṣṇa says, "I am for the Hindus or for the Indians"?

Acyutānanda: The Hindu law is so elastic, anyone who calls himself a Hindu or who practices any branch...

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Mahāṁsa: Or puts on tilaka.

Acyutānanda: Puts on tilaka, he may have the lowest character or the highest standard, anyone, he will be all considered a Hindu.

Prabhupāda: So this should be taken to court, on the Supreme Court.

Harikeśa: But if there is no definition of Hindu, how can you prove...

Prabhupāda: There is no Hindu. It is not.... Therefore we are not Hindu.

Acyutānanda: Well, they'll say, "This is our definition. This is what we say a Hindu is."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Acyutānanda: The court says, "This is what we say a Hindu is. So you're Hindus."

Prabhupāda: No, no. And court can say anything, but then why not put it into the judgment of many judges?

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Everyone likes?

Yaśodānandana: Except the Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: There are many Māyāvādīs.

Yaśodānandana: They may not like, but they cannot prove the contrary. They cannot prove that Kṛṣṇa is not the Supreme.

Indian man (1): Even in cinema, when they see the picture of Kṛṣṇa, the audience will feel very happy.

Acyutānanda: Our cinema or on the outside?

Indian man (1): Ordinary cinemas also.

Acyutānanda: There is one actor who always plays Kṛṣṇa, N.T. Ramaram. So once he came on the street and everyone came following him and touching his feet.

Prabhupāda: Acchā?

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, he must sign the.... Otherwise we shall have to inform. He must sign. He must sign. Otherwise we shall have to take steps.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "First you prove that I'm guilty." But I said...

Prabhupāda: But this is your charge. You say that "I have not done it." Present him and you say in writing that "I have never done it. Now I shall do it." Otherwise we shall have to do the needful. (break) ...go to Māyāpur. He is ready to go to Māyāpur?

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is, I am asking you. (laughs)

Dr. Patel: You know it better. Why ask me? Modern science is especially to give chemistry and biology. They have learned so much. I mean, practically they have really reached that position which the vaiśeṣika śāstra reached in past. Vaiśeṣika is one of the six darśanas. They also tried to prove the existence of God and God creation by that method, because they also believed in Vedas. We are also trying to do the same thing by our own way. And real modern scientists have found out that nothing can happen without God. But you.... In your time, when you were a student, scientists were atheists. Now scientists are not atheists, sir. So I beseech you to remove that idea from you.

Prabhupāda: (break) Well, impersonal philosophers are more dangerous than the atheist.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Harikeśa: Madhvācārya made a commentary on the Gītā where he quoted a Sanskrit verse.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: He quoted a Vedic verse for every Bhagavad-gītā verse to prove that Bhagavad-gītā is śruti.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Madhvācārya?

Harikeśa: Or somebody like that.

Prabhupāda: Rāmānujācārya.

Harikeśa: Who?

Prabhupāda: Rāmānujācārya has quoted.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Just see now. "He got a great personality." He is that personality. He'll also prove that.

Bhavānanda: "...who shouldered the burden of the mighty mission of Śrīla Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. That great personality is President Ācāryadeva, his holiness Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktivilāsa..."

Prabhupāda: But you... Jaya morena apne morol.(?) This great personality, why he is not accepted by other disciples? How he became a great personality?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. If one proclaims himself to be the king and no one...

Morning Walk -- January 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Still, if you say, "You are mūḍha," they become angry. Such mūḍhas, rascals, they are in the government service. And if you say that "You are mūḍhas," he becomes angry. Upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye: "If a mūḍha is advised nice instruction, he becomes angry." He does not take it. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam: "If you give milk and banana to a snake, you simply increase his poison." One day he will come-(growls). You see? "I have given you milk and you..." "Yes, that is my nature. Yes. You give me milk, and I am prepared to kill you." This is mūḍha. We have to kill this civilization of mūḍhas. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Those who are actually human being, you have to give them Kṛṣṇa. And those who are mūḍhas, we have to kill them. This is our business. Kill all the mūḍhas and give Kṛṣṇa to the sane man. Yes. That will prove that you are really Kṛṣṇa's. We are not nonviolent. We are violent to the mūḍhas. (break) ...wal, did you come here before?

Indian man (1): No, sir.

Morning Walk -- January 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...possible for us to challenge the whole world that "You are all fools." Huh? Is it possible?

Harikeśa: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Based on the scripture. You can show Vedic...

Prabhupāda: No, no, they don't care for Vedic. That is another foolishness. You have to present. You have to prove them fools by practical. And otherwise, "Who cares for your Vedic instruction?" they will say. Why they should... "We have got our own instruction." That is preaching. If you quote simply Vedic literature, they will think, "We can quote many others."

Bhavānanda: But they are filled with anxiety and we are not.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bhavānanda: They are filled with anxiety.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think you are the only real resident of Bhāratavarṣa.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bhavānanda: You are the only real resident of Bhāratavarṣa. No one else has fulfilled that...

Prabhupāda: At least historically it be proved. (break) ...cause of envy of my Godbrothers. I was known. Although they knew that Prabhupāda liked me very much, because I am gṛhastha, I was known as pacā-gṛhastha. Pacā-gṛhastha means a rotten gṛhastha. And now they say, "This gṛhastha has come out more than us? What is this?" (break) Śrīdhara Mahārāja's chief disciple...?

Bhavānanda: Gaura.

Prabhupāda: He always used to say to Śrīdhara Mahārāja that "You are seeing Abhay Babu as gṛhastha, but he is more than many yogis." He was telling.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even before.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "So you are dealing with all nonsense. Don't be disappointed."

Hṛdayānanda: Another professor, he was very, a world famous geneticist, professor of genetics. I remember, when I was a student there, he was always trying to prove that there was no God. That was his mission. So he was in so much anxiety-he's an older man—that he would simply stand up every day and shake. During the whole class he was actually shaking with anxiety. He could hardly speak. He was famous scientist.

Prabhupāda: Why he was shaking?

Hṛdayānanda: He was in so much anxiety. He was very, very nervous. He would just shake, always trying to prove there is no God.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...their society, and they are advocating, "No temple or Deity worship." So one boy, so he was a member of this society. So there is Śītalā-mātā, the goddess of smallpox. So he had some trouble in the house, smallpox. So he thought of going to the Śītalā-mātā's temple. So he's entering the temple and seeing in this way, "Mother, I am your devotee but they will tax me. Therefore I am going out." (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So this man, he is afraid of God, but he has to preach there is no God. So he was feeble.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the atom comes?

Hṛdayānanda: The atom is the eternal fact. It is inconceivable or it's unexplainable where it has come from.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of your explaining? Then you prove yourself you are a rascal. Inexplicable? Why you are trying to explain?

Guru-kṛpā: "We're not explaining. We're just accepting it's a fact."

Morning Walk -- March 7, 1976, Mayapur:

Hṛdāyānanda: ...puffed up with knowledge.

Prabhupāda: What is their knowledge, nonsense? He has know...? Have they knowledge?

Bhagavān: They're trying to prove that sense gratification is bona fide.

Guru-kṛpā: ...and the explanation of...

Prabhupāda: And where is sense gratification? As soon as nature kicks you out, where is your sense gratification?

Hṛdāyānanda: It's a relative thing. Actually, compared to the ordinary man, he's much more intelligent.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: If you think your leader is mistaken, then you are mistaken. (laughter)

Mahendra: Like a mirror. You see a mistake but it's yourself.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: The leader of mistake-therefore immediately gives evidence from śāstra. What is the use of quoting from the śāstra? "Just to prove that I am not mistaken, here is the proof."

Madhudviṣa: They would say that there is a way of life which is perfect, but all men are imperfect. There is a way of life.

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore they... Because you are imperfect, therefore you have to accept the leadership of a perfect person.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They eat grass?

Guru-kṛpā: They eat meat. They eat fish. They are making milk also.

Prabhupāda: Milk is there, but it is not that it is due to eating such and such.

Pañca-draviḍa: Yeah, that doesn't prove anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Milk is there.

Balavanta: If a woman doesn't drink cow's milk, she can't make other milk.

Madhudviṣa: No, they will say that if the cow is fed, given good feed, then the milk is better.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, on the top, so high. There is no pipe. There is no pump, nothing. You do it. Instead of calling a plumber, you do something that the water will come in this tank.

Devotee (2): Well, they will say that the roots of the tree is bringing the water up.

Prabhupāda: That is a nonsense. You make such root and bring water here. Then your scientific knowledge will be proved. But you cannot do it. Can you do it? We are spending so much money for bringing water. Bring that root and bring water.

Madhudviṣa: We have done better. We can do it faster. Within, within a few minutes we can bring so much water here. You must...

Prabhupāda: But if I don't pay you, you'll starve. You'll never be able to do it if I don't pay you.

Madhudviṣa: Well, we have money. So we have become more...

Prabhupāda: No, you have no money. You have not money. Therefore you are working on my order. You have no money. You have no money.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: My point is: if the moon is going round the earth, beginning from here to there, similarly, the sun is also going around earth, because we see the similar way, it is rising and going that way. So how you can say one is fixed, one is standing? The process, we find the same. How you can say that this is fixed and this is going around? Why is...? If the process is the same, then the result will be the same.

Hari-śauri: (break) .... accepted the sun was moving, then they wouldn't be able to prove that...

Prabhupāda: And the.... And the moon is not seen also for fifteen days in the morning (month?). As a layman, we should say that, as the moon is rising from this side and going to this side, the sun is also rising from this side. So if the moon is moving, the sun is moving.

Morning Walk -- March 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Pañca-draviḍa: So it may be cheating.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pañca-draviḍa: Actually, they have not proved anything.

Prabhupāda: That is my contention.

Trivikrama: They say the moon is bright, just like if a cloud is in the sky, it appears very white and bright because the sun is hitting it. But the same cloud, if you bring it into the room, it's just mist.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...mana, buddhi, ahaṅkāra. And then false identification, ahaṅkāra, then soul. And the soul is so fine. I have given the definition. How they can see, "There is soul"? Dr. Kapoor: But in the ātmā, you see.... You have given a very beautiful description. The smaller the part—as they call it, potency—more powerful it becomes. So you see, they think that the bigger thing is more powerful, but here science has also proved that greater the potency, the smaller the dose, smaller the size. So similarly, as you describe that what is soul? It's fractional, fractional, fractional, fractional.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: She bought. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Yadubara: ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the single elements alone in the body do not have life. The blood does not have life, the air does not have life, and so on. How would you prove that all of them combined together don't have life? How would you prove that?

Prabhupāda: No, no. We do not find in the water, in the air, in the fire the five elements, you do not find there is life. So what is this, that life force? They are trying to prove that combination of this, there is life, but actually by analytical study we don't find life. The first example is this breathing. Everyone is under the impression that breathing is life. So when the breathing is stopped, the air is stopped. Just make some artificial way of breathing, bring life.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That argument was not accepted by Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (2): But I mean, then how...

Prabhupāda: He proved that "You are a rascal. One who puts this argument, he's a rascal."

Akṣayānanda: That was just an excuse to avoid fighting.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa clearly chastised him that "You are talking like a fool." Eh? Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān: (BG 2.11) "Talking like a very learned man, but you are a fool. No learned man speaks like that." Why they have kept this nice road within this forest? What is the idea?

Hari-śauri: There's some village on the other side?

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That would mean that even the plants and trees also have a heart.

Prabhupāda: Everything. That is proved scientifically. Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose has proved. There is a part(?). What is that? Spi...? Begins the word, the machine, the record?

Devotee (2): Spirograph.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the word begins with s. Spirograph or like that. You do not know? They smear with black, what is called, carbon, and the fine...

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Has to do with light?

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, it records how it is moving, how it is going up and down. So that has been proved. The machine is hanged in the tree, and the tree is cut, and immediately makes a mark. Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose has discovered the machine.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Generally at least, though, we associate the heart with an organ that simply pumps blood and oxygen throughout the body, but the biologists contend that certain bodies and certain species of life have no such circulatory system, pumping blood or even oxygen.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Funny way, but it is very serious. It requires little intelligence...

Devotee (3): Like to sit there?

Prabhupāda: ...that this body is a lump of matter, and the consciousness, or the living pulse, that is different. Can you prove that they are not? Eh?

Mike Barron: No.

Prabhupāda: Then how do you say it is joking?

Mike Barron: Er, no, I.... The actual context.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, no. If animal has no intelligence, you have no intelligence. What you are doing more than the animals? That we are protesting, that "Why you should remain in the animal intelligence?" That is our propaganda.

Hari-śauri: If you can't prove yourself capable of taking use of better facility, then again you get less facility.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom: "I have given up everything; I kept the key." From here, for a few days we are walking. And while going, if I say, "Now this land I give you," where your land? Where you possess this land? This is like that. What you can give up? What is yours? You have nothing. This is nonsense. "I have given up." First of all, prove what you have got. If you haven't got anything, then what is to give up? This is all nonsense. Īśāvāsyam idam sarvam (ISO 1). Everything God's property. So there is no question of giving up. Because everything belongs.... I also belong to God. My body, my mind, everything is given by God. Where you get this mind? Where you get this body? It is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhūmir āpaḥ analaḥ vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva, prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. He claims, "It is My property. What you have got? And you are also My part and parcel.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Well, they want communistic materialism. In other words, by creating, forming communes, everyone will get equal portion of food and bedding and clothing and medicine.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact. A man's tendency is that everyone wants to get more. So how they will check it? This is already proved in Russia.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They condemn Russia. They say Russia is a failure.

Prabhupāda: And similarly, they will have to condemn. If they follow the wrong path, they will have the wrong result. This is not...

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Rādhāvallabha: (break) ...put out by the karmīs, and it is a book on how to become peaceful and happy, and it shows pictures of dogs and cats sleeping, and it says, "This is how you do it. You should lie down like this and everything will be all right."

Prabhupāda: The dog is lying peacefully because he has got sense that "I have got a good master." Therefore he is sleeping. They do not sleep peacefully without master.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that the scientists have been proven guilty. Now we have to decide what their punishment should be.

Prabhupāda: Nature will punish them. (break)

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Hari-śauri: It's like Rāvaṇa's promise of being able to go to the heavenly planets by climbing up the staircase.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...believed in the words of śāstra. Even I am not scientist, still I shall.... It is all childish. And it has proved childish. I do not say that I am better than the scientists. No. But on the words of śāstra, I say this is childish. They'll never be able to go to the moon. (break) The Americans who are here, mostly they are tourists. They're not residents.

Devotee (6): Some of them are retired, I believe.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Sentiment, there is... In your relationship with your friends and father and mother is sentiment. That is another thing. But you must know "He's my father," "He's my mother," "He's my son." Sentiment is there even in ordinary relationship. You cannot avoid sentiment. Just like we're dancing. That is also sentiment, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa." That is sentiment. But that does not mean because he's dancing in sentiment, he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Sentiment must be there. That is ecstasy, enjoyment. But not blind sentiment. (break) ...you do not know, know from Kṛṣṇa. Anybody can say "I do not know who is my father." And if the real father says, "I'm your father, my son," then how he can prove? How he does not know? If he says, "No, I don't believe you that you are my father," then what is the..., what is evidence? He knows. The mother also says, "Yes, he's your father." " No, I don't believe." What is the evidence? The father is saying, "I'm father." The mother is saying, "Yes, he's your father." But the rascal is saying, "No, I don't believe it."

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...was as you say (indistinct).

Devotee (1): About the origin of the universe?

Prabhupāda: No.

Devotee (2): Chance theory.

Devotee (1): To prove that theory of chance.

Prabhupāda: And still they accept it?

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: What do you think?

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They are finished. Rather, they have stopped. They are finished. Whatever they could do, they have already done, and there is no scope of their doing anything. Therefore next business is bluff. That's all.

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, may I still add something? In Atlanta, one professor in a seminar said when confronted with the Vedic philosophy, he said, "These things cannot be proven empirically, so we dismiss the problem." He is satisfied to be made out of molecules that came together through chemical combinations, and that is what he believes in and what he works for, and there is no more. He dismisses the problem.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Dismisses the problem? What is that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But he cannot prove that life is made from molecules.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so they no more deal with that subject matter?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, that's their point. That because they cannot prove that life comes from life or that there is transmigration of the soul, therefore they will not consider your challenge because it cannot be proven by empiric means.

Prabhupāda: Why not proven?

Rāmeśvara: They say it cannot be proven...

Prabhupāda: It is proven.

Rāmeśvara: ...by observation.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: I think we have discussed this philosopher.

Richard: You have discussed him? All right, one of the things he said was that.... Oh, I'm sorry, it's Pascal. Anyway, same thing practically. Ah, he said that as far as an afterlife goes, as far as proving it, it's impossible to prove it.

Prabhupāda: Why impossible? He does not know.

Richard: Okay.

Prabhupāda: We can prove immediately.

Richard: Okay, but it's just a wager, it's a moot argument, the proofs are of a spiritual kind rather than a...

Prabhupāda: It requires little brain; otherwise, it can be proved immediately.

Richard: Pardon me, I didn't catch the last part.

Prabhupāda: This, that the spirit soul is there, that can be proved immediately provided one has brain to understand.

Richard: How do you prove that a spirit is dead?

Prabhupāda: That is very easy. Just like you are a young man...

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda said "spirit is there."

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: Right, but I have never been aware of any proof...

Prabhupāda: That is education. You are not aware because you are not educated.

Richard: Perhaps, but I have never read of anyone else actually proving that there is a spiritual afterlife.

Prabhupāda: Here is the proof, he is giving proof. Therefore I said it requires little brain. He's giving proof.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is after eight years. Actually it is proved, and still, they.... (break) What is this dome?

Rāmeśvara: (break) ...street has more banks than any other street in America, Wilshire Boulevard. Everywhere, banks everywhere. (break)

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: When he came to India, he was my intimate friend. So he was telling me that "In our country, when some Indian student comes, especially while returning home after their education, they stop for some time in Germany, we used to inquire from him how much he is aware of his Indian original culture." Because they have got very good respect. All over the world they have got. Even Russia. They have got good respect for Indian culture. They have liked our books only on account of the..., because the Sanskrit verses are there. They took it, "Oh, it is original." Scholarly people like our book on that account, because we explain original Sanskrit verse. That they have got very good regard, that there is knowledge. They're impressed. And Britishers made propaganda only that India had no culture, almost uncivilized: They push women forcibly in the fire after the death of her husband, and in the temple, the priests, they make all nonsense with women, and so on. This was their.... Just to prove that "India was uncivilized, and we are making them civilized. By our compassion for the uncivilized persons, we are occupying."

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ, śudhyanti (SB 2.4.18). By the guidance of the spiritual master.

Devotee (4): You've already proved that, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)

Devotee (4): We're worse than Eskimos.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: What is the proof, value, of this paper, little paper? Simply "I promise to pay, governor and this..." But it is on trust only: "Yes, government will pay me." They'll never pay, but so long the government goes on, it will go on, that's all, cheating will go on. And as soon government fails, you throw in the street, no one will care for it. It has been practically proved in the last war, in Germany. There was scarcity of food, and those who had bunch of currency notes, they went for one piece of bread, so many thousand marks, "Give me." Nobody supplied. So the paper has no value, but if we believe, it has value, that's all. Otherwise what is the meaning of this paper, one thousand dollars? So it is a kind of cheating, "We trust in God; we are very good men. You trust in me."

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is your ignorance. But the beginning is dharma-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Yuyutsavaḥ means fighting. Two parties, they, actually, the two parties... Pāṇḍavas māmakaḥ caiva kim akurvata. Every word is significant. Fighting can be executed even in dharma-kṣetre. That they cannot understand. Gandhi misunderstood. If it is dharma-kṣetre, how there can be fighting? He wanted to prove nonviolence artificially. How it is possible? Kṛṣṇa is instigating him to fight, and how can you make it nonviolent? That is artificial. And if you want to explain something artificially, how long you'll do it, it will be failure. So Gandhi's philosophy of nonviolence and reading of Bhagavad-gītā went with him. Nobody is interested in that kind of explanation. And we are explaining Bhagavad-gītā as it is, it is increasing. It is increasing. There is no artificial way.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This rascal thought, "Now I am finished, I have done my duty." All rascals. (japa) Thus our definition, that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's either in these four groups, bas, final. You just try to prove it. Hm? Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja? You have any doubt about it?

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Whether this is fact. It is fact, but even if we do not accept it, what is the wrong there, find out. We don't find any wrong, everything. Because Kṛṣṇa said it, then it's all right. Because they will say it is too sectarian, that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's the most miscreant, sinful and ass and lowest of the mankind; he has lost his all knowledge. This is our accusation. Now defend. Any gentleman will protest that "I am such a respectable gentleman, and because I do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then I'll fall amidst these groups? What is this?" They will say. Now you'll have to prove, that "You are not a gentleman."

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: God is great. That's all. God is great. Kṛṣṇa proved that He's great. Therefore He's God. Everyone says, "God is great." Allah akbar, Muslims say. God is great. It is translated, "God is great." And Hindu says, paraṁ brahma. So God is great. So Kṛṣṇa proved that He is all-great. Therefore He is God. Kṛṣṇa, when He was present, He proved it that He is the great. Therefore He's God. If you accept God is great, and if you find somebody, he is great in everything, then he's God. How can I deny it? At least, you can see Kṛṣṇa great by His Bhagavad-gītā. It is still going on.

Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: That other argument that you use about how the moon rays give life to the vegetables... So how is it that there's no life on the moon? If the rays from the moon give life, then how is it there's no life where the rays come from?

Prabhupāda: They have never gone to moon. (laughs) All bogus. And this Mars expedition will be a failure. Let them spend millions of dollars. I told about moon planet ten years ago. It is childish, simply a waste of money and energy. I told this. Now it has proved.

Hari-śauri: There's no more interest in the moon at all.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One question I have about this personality. We know from...

Prabhupāda: Just add consciousness. When consciousness is not developed, the personality is not developed. Just like tree you cut, there is no personality, it does not protest, "Why you are cutting?" It does not scream. But a man or animal, when you attempt to injure, it screams, it protests. That means consciousness is developed.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How can we prove that the personality...

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Consciousness developed and the symptoms are there. Just like we are studying this. Our consciousness is developed. This discussion is not possible by the animals, although it has got the all life symptom. Therefore because our consciousness is developed, we can inquire. Therefore in the human form of life it is the only business to inquire about the Absolute. Now, athāto brahma jijñāsā.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is there. My order there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And there is a great necessity...

Prabhupāda: Yes. To save the people from this foolish type of education.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now in the next slide we'll show that... Actually, there were some previous scientists who were not actually atheists, rather, they had some sort of devotee qualities. And one scientist called Pasteur, he actually proved that life cannot come from matter. That is shown in the next slide. So this is the experiment. It was in...

Prabhupāda: This Pasteur? There are many Pasteur Institutes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is the man, Pasteur.

Prabhupāda: He has got many institutes.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That may be, but you are responsible for that. Because you are driving me from this apartment by force. Actually, in a higher sense, that is accepted, that he was to be driven away. But because you are driving, you are responsible for that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now this experiment, another interpretation of these material scientists is that they claim that this experiment disproved the vital theory. But on other hand, actually, the opposite is true, that he proved that there is a vital theory, rather, that spirit must be there. That was actually proved by this experiment also. But the mentality of these scientists are so demoniac that they twist the truth around... (break) RNA is a big molecule and that is actually transferred from this DNA molecule. DNA molecule, they call it the master molecule from which everything comes, all the molecules. Now if we see this carefully, we can see at every step that there is a specific direction and information without which this whole machinery will break down.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So like that, then, when the..., once they bring these amino acids one by one, then they stick together, and that also process is done by enzymes. There are so many steps involved, and very intricate. It is actually done by a catalyst called enzymes. Enzymes are also very big molecules, actually they are also proteins, and in each step the enzymes are so specific that they do only one specific function just for the right purpose, and once this is done then slowly the protein separates at the right time and with the proper length and proper number of amino acids. In this way, actually we can prove in every case that...

Prabhupāda: Perfect direction.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, the direction of the Supersoul is a necessity. In whatever condition we look at, even in the molecules.

Prabhupāda: So nice management, there must be nice direction.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we want to develop these concepts and prove...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa will help you.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now later on, when Sadāpūta speaks, there will be similar concepts, but that is applied to the human platform called inspiration-inspiration and proving the existence of Paramātmā, Supersoul. Actually, it ties together very well. Even from the molecular level we can see this, and in the human platform actually it is very vividly,...

Prabhupāda: Manifested.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We can feel it.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is the fact. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So these are some of the chemical concepts that I described earlier. Next Sadāpūta will take over, and he'll describe the mathematical and physical concepts of proving the existence of Paramātmā.

Prabhupāda: Yes, do it.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rākṣana: So it should be fairly easy for scientists to prove, Svarūpa Dāmodara and such, that.... I know they can't prove there is illumination caused by the deserts.

Prabhupāda: That is the point. Therefore it is doubtful whether they have gone there.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are in fact some reports in the last few years that there is some bacteria that can survive in the medium of ammonia-ammonia is alkaline solution. Normally life survives in...

Prabhupāda: Life survives in fire, water, fire. That is our information.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Also they proved that there are certain bacteria that can survive in about a 170 degrees. High temperature.

Prabhupāda: Why bacteria? Human beings. Otherwise, how Kṛṣṇa is speaking the sun-god? Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Simply the sun-god is alone living?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You take all details, inside, outside. That will be nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Can you take inside? Is it allowed?

Yadubara: Yes, I think so.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... (japa) And you prove that sun planet is first. It is stated in the Bible.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I was going to inquire about that.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The order, Sunday, Monday, whether it has to do anything with the distance.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So many cheat?

Devotee (2): Together. Together they all cheat, they all say they went to the moon. One thousand scientists, all together in one room? They all say, "We agree, this, they went to the moon, here's the..."

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that if we can prove that the moon is beyond sun, then all these cheaters will be (indistinct), by one stroke.

Devotee (2): It's a great cheating effort, then. Must be a very great effort that they cheated everybody like this. Because so many scientists were fooled.

Prabhupāda: Scientists...

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Because they know, we can cheat these rascals, government. They are all rascals, we can simply talk in some bombastic words (speaks gibberish). They'll believe it. This is going on. All imperfect knowledge.

Hari-śauri: If they don't produce some new theory, or some new discovery...

Prabhupāda: That means they prove their own foolishness. Why do you produce new theory? If there is perfect knowledge? That proves their foolishness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's also called intellectual exercise.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to...

Hari-śauri: Mental speculation.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually it is like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (chuckles)

Viśākhā: We want to try make a film to prove this point that life comes from life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We can do that with film?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We can show it to colleges.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Do it, do it.

Yadubara: Because their book, subject matter of the book is directly along those lines.

Prabhupāda: They say from chemicals, but if you prove that chemicals also come from life...

Devotee: Yeah.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Viśākhā: The problem is they believe what they see.

Prabhupāda: Believe or not believe, we shall have to give the people by books, by knowledge, by film.

Hari-śauri: But if somehow or other that sun-moon thing can be proved, then they'll all be finished, completely.

Prabhupāda: It will not be finished because some rascals, fools will remain to support it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's always like that, just like in Mahābhārata...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Just see, how nonsense they are, misleading people, making them atheist, Godless. Great dangerous, the so-called scientists.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that mentality has to be changed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if even two, three, points we can prove that they're all rascals, then they will change. Simply cheating people and take high salary. This is common sense. Suppose in the laboratory you make one living being. So what is credit to them? The living entities are coming, many millions...

Devotee: (2): You gave the story about the dog...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's giving some thought, to those people who are worried, "Don't worry about life, it's going to be all nice." And...

Prabhupāda: No, we are not worried, and even if we, one is worried, he'll be finished by that time. So all worries will be gone. Moreover, after death there will be no worries. (pause) Prove that everything is being done by God, that we want. Half past five?

Hari-śauri: Almost twenty-five to. Twenty-seven minutes to...

Prabhupāda: Twenty-seven minutes? No, no. It is thirty minutes.

Hari-śauri: Twenty-seven minutes to six.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Minutes.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You economically prove that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is simple and inexpensive life.

Devotees: Yes, jaya, mercy.

Prabhupāda: Food, diet, living condition, healthy, hygienic, everything. You prove that this is the best way of life. That's a fact. From all sides, prove that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is essential for the human society, to make them happy in this and the next life. That is a fact.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda? Today I want to discuss about the manifestation of the matter from pradhāna. Now Lord Kapiladeva describes that pradhāna is the undifferentiated sum total of material elements.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sa īkṣata, sa asṛjata, by the glance of Mahā-Viṣṇu... Eko nārāyaṇa āsīt. In the beginning, Nārāyaṇa was there. There was no Lord Śiva, no neither Brahmā. This mantra was there. So originally by the glance...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: By the glance of Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: We can prove it that how by the sunshine everything is growing. How it is? Your molecule and so on, so on... You can describe. Actually, from the sunshine the trees are growing, leaves are coming. As soon as there is no sunshine, immediately they fall down, the leaves, and the tree becomes without any leaves. How this happens? The same process. The sunshine produces so many things. Similarly, by the glance of the Supreme, the material nature becomes agitated and the three guṇas become manifest. In this way these are described there. The same process. How from the sunshine the leaves are coming out, what are the molecular changes, if you can study the same process.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: And as soon as you say that you are equal or greater, then you are rascal. We must expose you, that you are a rascal. This is our business. Because we are servants of God. We cannot see anything blasphemy against God. That is not our business. We must chastise immediately.

Rūpānuga: In that way we can help the people in general.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually, that is the fact. If you are actually scientist, then prove that there is God. That is your success of education. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito... (SB 1.5.22). Your education has meaning when by your education, by your scientific knowledge, you'll prove that there is God, He is so glorified. Then you are welcome. Then you are really scientist. And if you become a rascal, then you say "Oh, there is no need of God. We are going to manufacture. Just wait for one million years." Is that good proposal, I have to wait for one million years to see your scientific research work? And we shall allow such fools to flourish? That is not possible.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they cannot see.

Prabhupāda: See..., you cannot see your father, that does not means there is no father who begot you. That is no... They cannot see, do they say like that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They cannot see that, so they cannot prove by experiment, so...

Prabhupāda: What experiment?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just from experience also.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: They want to go and see for themselves, so they say they have gone to the moon planet, and they say we have not found life.

Prabhupāda: We say you have not gone. I have not seen you, that you have gone there; you say only. How can I believe?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Do they give any quotation?

Indian man (1): No, they don't give any quotation, but...

Prabhupāda: Rascals. (laughter)

Dr. Sharma: Even scientifically now it is being proven that many of the diseases, like of the kidneys, of the heart, arterial sclerosis, arteriosclerosis, uremia, gout, is because of high protein diet, particularly meat. Many of the scientists now are going away from meat by chanting.

Prabhupāda: By?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Then this is going on. They cannot do anything, and still they are drawing high salary. Especially when they say that life is made of chemicals and they cannot experimentally prove it. How bluffing it is. We say a simple thing, that "Don't talk of big, big life. You just produce from the egg, because egg you require so many chicken to cut their throat. So produce it from chemicals." Why do they not do it? Is anyone to answer this? If life is chemical combination, you see in the egg there is some white substance, some yellow substance, so you analyze and find out what are the chemicals and combine it and color it yellow and pack up in a cellulose cover, and then put it, bring life. Why they cannot do it? Where is the science? Simply talking big, big words? What do you think? Am I right or wrong?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the root cause of this illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They want to prove "There is no God. Everything is science." However rascaldom it may be, "It is everything." But we are preaching about God. How we can tolerate? We must expose them. That is our business.

Mr. Boyd: There's a saying that's printed on a piece of stationery I get from one of my supply houses of a particular piece of equipment this man designs and sells. And on the bottom he indicates, "Somebody has to lead."

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: He could not support his statements.

Prabhupāda: So dogmatic, you can say any nonsense, but philosophy and science is different. If he's talking on dogmatic platform, then what is his value? What does he mean by "soul is there" and "soul is not there"? How does he prove?

Rūpānuga: We were finding that there are some real scientific experiments like Pasteur's, the one we did in the slide show the other night, and some of the work of Bose, that have been ignored simply or misinterpreted. Already there has been some work in this area. So we were thinking that we could point to these as examples to confirm our position, because they are scientific.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Sadāpūta: These theories of theirs are taught in high schools and colleges as fact, practically. Like the student in Gainesville was telling us that he was taking zoology, and they were teaching evolution, and they were saying that it wasn't a theory anymore but it was a proven fact, and that he was quite dissatisfied with that.

Prabhupāda: Proven fact?

Sadāpūta: Yes, that's how they are teaching it. They don't even teach evolution as a theory anymore, but they say it's been proven as a fact now, what they are teaching.

Prabhupāda: So how it is fact? You cannot do. So what is the fact?

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. Then there is a part called "Hare Kṛṣṇa Meditation." "The Hare Kṛṣṇaś practice bhakti, the yoga of devotion. They have their mahāmantra, continual recitation of which will have a meditative effect. By integrating recitation of the mantra with a life of rigidly formulated devotional activities, it would seem that devotees actually live their meditation. Such a life of living meditation is not without parallel in secular fields. It is believed that the spiritual form of alchemy served this purpose; that is, an alchemist repeated the same experimental routine over and over until it became automatized, though still requiring some slight personal involvement." He's getting a little far out here. "It was expected that the result..." Anyway, "...practitioners of Western magical disciplines sought for similar results. Meditation takes effect in terms of the ambiance in which it is practiced. In the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement there are certain to be transcendental experiences. They would be in accord with Vedic teachings, but their exact nature has not proven easy of discovery, since devotees insist that their sole aim in life is to be of service to Kṛṣṇa." We're not interested in experiencing all these special things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very nice.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is now prohibited.

aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ

sannyāsaṁ pala-paitṛkam

devareṇa sutotpattiṁ

kalau pañca vivarjayet

(CC Adi 17.164)

If you refer to śāstra, the śāstra says in Kali-yuga these should be avoided. At that time, when there was aśvamedha-yajña, gomedha-yajña, that was not for eating. That was to prove the strength of Vedic mantra, how the animal was put in the fire and again gave him a new life. So where is that Vedic chanter, Vedic brāhmaṇa, yajñika brāhmaṇa? There is no such things, powerful brāhmaṇa. Therefore it is to be avoided. And that was not for eating purpose. To put one old animal in the fire and again he comes back with new life, that was the purpose. This question was raised by Chand Kazi to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu challenged him, that "What is this your religion, you are killing your father and mother?" So he referred to this, that in..., "Formerly they were sacrificing cows in Your śāstra." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained that sacrifice was not meant for eating. That was meant for renovating new life. That is not for eating.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a spiritual culture, and basically speaking the human society begins from dharma, or accepting the principle of God. Dharma begins with this acceptance of the principle of God, that human beings, their activities, have to be regulated. Just like in human society there is marriage. This is according to scripture. Every scripture regulates there must be marriage. This is dharma. It regulates certain activities that should be done, certain activities that should not be done. And basically speaking this is the beginning of human civilization; otherwise, they're simply living in a civilization of gross sense gratification which is in reality no different or no better than the society of animals. So from dharma, human society begins and generally... You can see practically that dharma generally focuses... People are taking that dharma is for the basis of economic development. This is proven practically because in pioneer times in America for example, people they were simple going to churches and synagogues, and temples and all kinds of things, what have you. And economic development was going on very nicely, in fact, economic development could not have gone on unless there was this principle of religion. People were very, practically speaking... In a pioneer situation people are very barbaric, struggle for existence—you know, you're in the country, there is no road, there's no cities—everyone is very, simply interested to maintain themselves. But by churches and things of this nature, people saw the need for a civilized give-and-take way of living—economic development. Then gradually, the ideas developed further and further, but in modern days we can see that people are having economic developments and there's no need for God, they think at least. In other words, people are no longer attending churches, synagogues, things of this nature, because they are making sufficient money without the need of religion. Therefore, the basic principle is being missed that human life is not simply meant for economic development. Human life—we analyze, we can say that...

Prabhupāda: Human life is meant for making a solution of all material problems.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rāmeśvara Mahārāja called him a jackass (laughter) and many other things.

Prabhupāda: So how he was trying to kidnap you?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, and we tried to prove to him that he was afraid of death and we are not. We are better situated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wants to know how did he actually try to kidnap you by telling you, or by his philosophy.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: South Africa.

Indian man: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Of Satya Sai.

Hari-śauri: One man, he challenged that he could prove that Sai Baba is a fake. So he's written so many letters to Sai Baba to challenge him, but he's never received a reply. So that paper gave this article criticizing Sai Baba like that and other gurus, and then in the same paper there was a very nice article concerning our Jagannātha Cart Festival. So practically they were appreciating that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is bona fide and these other people are nonsense.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Oh, yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He's the Peace Corps devotee from India? He is a scientist in the field of geology, studies the earth and how these formations come, and he's working with the scientists to prove their misunderstandings, their false claims.

Prabhupāda: No, without water there cannot be sand.

Hari-śauri:. So early in the moon's history, when it was first formed, when there was gaseous clouds, then there was the water in the atmosphere...

Prabhupāda: There was water?

Hari-śauri: But then, due to the atmosphere being dry, not being any atmosphere, now it's just rocks and dust.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Seeing only dead bodies?

Rāmeśvara: Dead bodies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stuffed dead bodies.

Rāmeśvara: They have this one display trying to prove that..., the Darwin theory of evolution. They have these bones, and they say this proves how man was formerly like an ape or a monkey. Now he has become more civilized.

Prabhupāda: So where is Darwin's bones?

Rāmeśvara: Then they have one display showing...

Prabhupāda: No, no, Darwin got all this knowledge. His bones should be studied first, how he got so much knowledge. And from which monkey he came. By studying the bones, discover it.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: If you accept human being has soul, you have to accept animal has soul. If you accept animal has no soul, then there is no soul.

Mike Robinson: Well what proof have you got, then, that a human being has got a soul?

Prabhupāda: That is your business. We say everyone has soul. The animal has soul and the man has soul.

Mike Robinson: But if you're going to be rational, you've got surely to prove, you see you've got to prove that a human being has a soul.

Prabhupāda: This is rational. Because we see all the points of similarity, analogy, therefore the human being has soul and the animal has soul, by points of similarity.

Mike Robinson: Yes, I can see the point you're trying to make about similarity, but what I'm asking is, what proof do you have that a human being has a soul?

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: So you completely write off anybody who says that there should be a step of faith. And would you, in other words...

Prabhupāda: No faith! It is fact!

Mike Robinson: So you would say that science can prove that God exists?

Prabhupāda: Yes, here is proof. Here is the proof, that there is children. Children are children; there is mother; so there must be father. This is proof. It doesn't require much proof.

Mike Robinson: I see. Can you tell me what you believe to be the meaning of life, why do we exist in the first place?

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Dharma-nyāya. In India we have seen that you bribe the brāhmaṇas and they'll give decision in your favor. And it is experienced by everyone. In the law court you bribe even the high-court judge, he'll give judgement in your... That is proven. One big judge... Not now, at least fifty years ago or more than that. His business was to take bribe, high-court judge, very learned judge. He was asked. He'll give judgement if you give him ten thousand rupees. So other brother high-court judges, they knew it, so in one case he was just arranging for this and the chief justice called him, that "You immediately resign and go home, otherwise this arrangement you have made, it will be exposed."

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Acchā?

Atreya Ṛṣi: He would get shivers. He would get shivers, and as a result of the shiver he would be covered with this woman. And her husband would object. Her husband would say, "Gandhiji, why do you have to do this? You know?" He would say, "You can see that I have no sexual inclination. This I want to prove that I have no sexual inclination."

Prabhupāda: To show transcendental.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, that you shall understand. First of all you must accept that there is creator. Then we study what is the nature of that creator. Just like these rascals, they are trying to prove that creation begins from stone, matter. Whether that is fact, whether creation begins from stone or from life, these things are to be studied. Creation they are accepting, but they are trying to prove that creation is from matter. Our proposition is "No, creation is from life." There are two things, life and matter. These are subject matters for further studies. First of all, we must know there is a creator. The atheists, they say there is no creator but there is creation, do they not? There is creation.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, science is correct, as far as it is practical. Science means practical. And, so far I know, those who are students of science, they have to appear for practical examination, is it not? Simply theoretical knowledge is not science. So much percentage of oxygen, so much percentage of hydrogen, mix together, becomes water. That you have to demonstrate in the laboratory, create water by mixing of oxygen, like that. That is science. But if you simply theorize, and when I say that you now practically prove, you say "Wait millions of years," that is nonsense; that is not science. That is nonsense. The observation and experiment. Simply observing is not science.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: A foolish rascal will accept. (laughter) You are rascal number one. You can accept that check, we are not going to. He's proved that you are rascal number one. It is better to have a check. It is better to have a post-check. Just see, these rascals are there. They prefer to be cheated. This is the, going on. Therefore these rascals get drunk. Because there are so many poor drunkards there, they will accept this check and they go on cheating, postdated check.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: They have in Bengal this Standard Pharmaceuticals of Bengal, been able to isolate penicillin from cow dung, and they have a big plant in Calcutta producing penicillin from cow dung. It's stated, you know, how cow dung was considered sacred. Perhaps we did not know that, but by experience.

Prabhupāda: Before this, one Monmohan Gosh, Dr. Monmohan Gosh, he was pathologist in medical college. He proved the antiseptic properties of gobara. He was Dr. Gosh's friend. So he was working in his laboratory also. I know. Long ago.

Dr. Patel: And in gomūtra, sir, there are so many hormones coming, and a big sample of hormones which can be resynthesized as human hormones. That is why gomūtra is being drunk.

Prabhupāda: Gomūtra is good medicine for liver disease. If you drink urine of...

Dr. Patel: Yes, it is proved scientifically so many hormones and by-products and hormones which can be resynthesized into human hormones, modern science.

Indian: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: That's right, gomūtra is considered sacred by we people that we put a drop in the newly born child's mouth.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Indian Doctor: There is research in parapsychology in certain municipality(?) of India, they have proved that (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: That they may do, a very great service, but we know it without going to the psychological process. We believe Kṛṣṇa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), bas, finished. What is the use of going to the psychology and...?

Indian Doctor: But those...

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: "Ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult." This is the charge. That very heading is a defamation.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And also the information that he has put to substantiate that is bogus. And we'll prove point by point how it is bogus.

Prabhupāda: We should charge them "ungodly." "Ungodly face." This should be charged.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And also that these charges...

Prabhupāda: Others are subordinate. This is the main charge. We are spreading Kṛṣṇa, God, and he's "ungodly face." Minimizing the value of the movement.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Hari-śauri: I think you said your mother was always very strict.

Prabhupāda: Because he was very lenient. So mother had to be little strict for my education. So prepare a case for these rascals. We have got strong case. And charge, "Why you have made 'ungodly'? Prove it. What do you know about godly?" Charge them. So there will be discussion, long discussion, what is godly and what is not godly. Put them in the corner. "What do you know, rascal, about godly tradition? You have charged us, 'ungodly.' "

Gargamuni: He's a drunkard, that man. That editor, he drinks.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a Parsee.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Pradyumna: The courts can take it up also. In Allahabad when they were doing about the Congress Party having the cow, they said this is of the nature... They were discussing what is God in the court to make a decision. Something, what is God, what is religion. We can bring it up in the court. That will make a case celebre. Case celebre, they call it, affaire celebre.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This case must be brought. Challenge them, "What do you know about God?" Explain. And we can prove God consciousness from every page of our books. That will be very interesting case. And we shall continue this unless this man is sufficiently fined.

Hari-śauri: This is a... That bit about... Some of it, there's the front page also. Thought you might like to read.

Prabhupāda: "Evidence of fraud"? No?

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Hari-śauri: This is a... That bit about... Some of it, there's the front page also. Thought you might like to read.

Prabhupāda: "Evidence of fraud"? No?

Hari-śauri: That's Sai Baba.

Pradyumna: One man is trying to prove Sai Baba is fraud. One professor.

Hari-śauri: He's a scientist. He says he can prove that Sai Baba's making things appear and disappear is just a trick.

Prabhupāda: He is a fraud. What is this paper?

Hari-śauri: This is the same issue.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhaviṣṇu: When I speak to some of these archaeologists that I meet, these professors, I ask them do they believe in the historical validity of this Mahābhārata and Bhāgavatam, and they say, "Personally, I believe, but officially we have to follow the archaeology, the techniques of measuring the time." So they have two faces, one for official life and one for personal life.

Prabhupāda: Duplicity. Duplicity.

Prabhaviṣṇu: Yes. But there are some of them that are trying to prove also that the Mahābhārata was historical.

Prabhupāda: Mahābhārata. That very name suggests history. Bigger India. Mahā means bigger, and Bhārata means India. Where is Mahāṁsa?

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: I don't think it is anything wrong. But in article they have told nothing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They try to indirectly...

Krishna Modi: Ah, that is not...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they have nothing to prove...

Krishna Modi: Prove them therefore... Let them say like that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Brittanic Encyclopedia on the book of the year, they only have about a hundred selected personalities of the world and they had a biography on Prabhupāda.

Krishna Modi: I think we must systematically discuss this matter. Now I think it is decided...

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Krishna Modi: I will ask the question.

Prabhupāda: Prove that the American government is supplying some way. No. We are selling our books.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually when you go abroad you can even see how our income's coming. How our temples live. We are all over the world.

Prabhupāda: That is our books are being printed.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Remain as person in the future. So without knowing all this knowledge, a mūḍha accepts the incarnation of God as coming from imperson. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Under this heading you have proved yourself to become a mūḍha. And how a mūḍha or an ass can become the incarnation of God? Then? Read that Blitz paper, one after another.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Indian man (4): Does the soul which passes from body to body, does it or he experience the pains and pleasures of my body?

Prabhupāda: Certainly. You just strike one dog—"Ka! Ka! Ka!" Why? Does not feel pain? And Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose has proved even the trees, they feel pains and pleasure.

Indian man (4): It may be the soul which...

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: If you say that, I am feeling some pain in this brain or in there, who is going to see?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, who can prove it?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to believe me, that's all.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We want to do that.

Prabhupāda: And that is a fact. Everyone is feeling proud. Take all signature of the gosvāmīs here, influential, that this is genuine. Prove there, that it is genuine movement.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And we have letters from Swami Premananda and all the (indistinct) from Bombay, and sent all these to Rāmeśvara.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone should join. Now people are taking this cultural movement so seriously and if our Indian leaders sleep, that is not good.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The millions of liquor manufacturers, breweries, millions of gambling houses, so, cigarette factories, so theoretically if this movement is successful then whole civilization is finished. So they are now looking... Because these young men have taken seriously so they are threatened and they are making a strong party to fight with us. They cannot safely say that (indistinct) this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement they are (indistinct) a charge against my movement or me that I am kidnapping young men. That is their (indistinct). I am not kidnapping, I am not going to their house to kidnap. They are coming to us. (Hindi)

kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī

dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau

śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau...

The gosvāmīs, they are śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau. Now prove! They are descendants, now prove: come forward. Śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau. Simply sitting at home. And in Bengal there is Nityānanda-vaṁśa. What is Nityānanda-vaṁśa? Nityānanda went forward before Jagāi-Mādhāi and He was hurt. Blood came out. Where is that Nityānanda-vaṁśa? Fight between Jagāi-Mādhāi and Nityānanda.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: I will stay if you hold immediately meeting in this temple. We have got enough space here. First of all you see some leading gosvāmī, and then you chalk out how to fight. All the (indistinct). Now it is question of Kṛṣṇa cult, it is not only Gauḍīya. So take gosvāmīs, some of you and meet all the leaders and hold a meeting, immediately... And explain the whole situation. Let us combine and those who are educated, they should go. We shall arrange for their all expenditure. It doesn't matter. Fight. This is a genuine cult. If you discriminate, that is discrimination against religion, cult. We are accepting everyone but it is a genuine cult. You also Christian, you accept anyone, why you say it is not genuine? That we have to prove. There the Hindus and Indians who are there, they will also join. So immediately hold a meeting. It is very serious situation. (Hindi) This is genuine movement. Why the American government should be discriminating against a genuine religious sect, Kṛṣṇa? Make this company. Prasāda, give him prasāda. Very serious (Hindi) Are you...? Go with him. We have got any car?

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just like you are a philosopher. So you should not make only theories, "perhaps." But actually, by your philosophy, you establish the existence of God. Then you are philosopher. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā sviṣṭasya sūktasya... (SB 1.5.22). Find out this verse in the Bhāgavata. Avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka. If by your philosophical knowledge you prove, "Yes, there is God," then your philosophy study is perfect. And if you philosophize, "There is no God," that is useless waste of time. To gain popularity, if you make philosophy like... In your country there are so many rascals philosophers, Darwin, Freud. They are all rascals. They are predominant.

Room Conversation -- November 14, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is not our business. We are presenting simply what is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā. If somebody said that "Bible is not genuine," will it be accepted? Thousands and thousands are claiming to be Christian on the basis of... Similarly millions and millions of people in India, they know Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. How it is not genuine? That we have to prove, that's all. It's not that... Repeatedly we are speaking that what Kṛṣṇa said, that is perfect. That's all. This is our business. Who will object to that? You could not present to the governor that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... Anyone can say, "Yes, it is based on Bhagavad-gītā. It is genuine." Any Indian can say.

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you first of all learn Sanskrit, then you (indistinct). If there is (indistinct). This practice should be stopped. If you want to preach Bhagavad-gītā, and if you want to preach your own philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā, don't do this preaching. You preach your philosophy, your (indistinct). You can preach any philosophy you like, but don't take Bhagavad-gītā and (indistinct) on it. (?) That is my (indistinct). That is being done. That is being done. So therefore, instead of studying, collecting so many literatures, why not take Bhagavad-gītā as it is and preach? And as evidence to prove he is (indistinct) ...all over the world.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Simply... Yes. No, Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). There is no more superior authority, more superior authority than Kṛṣṇa. And when Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth, He proved it. There was nobody superior than Him. That's a fact. Still He is superior. His Bhagavad-gītā is being studied all over the world with respect, determination, because He is still superior. That is superior.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Devotee (1): Yes. No one has ever observed the life coming from matter.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just prove that life comes from chemicals. How is that? "I am trying to be millionaire, therefore I am millionaire." What is this nonsense? You are trying to create from chemicals. Therefore you are scientist. What's this kind of scientist? Beat them with shoes. That's all.

Guest (1) (Indian man): I have a researcher in our family, and he thinks the theory of evolution is the daśa-avatāra.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Language can be managed if there is good preacher.

Indian man: But in these areas they don't require such intelligent preachers. Intelligence is required in cities where people are full of logic and want to argue right or wrong. And where they're determined to prove that "You are wrong, I am right," there you require...

Prabhupāda: That will not help. That is my propaganda. If they are induced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have learned it.

Indian man: No, no. Fashion. Now one thing is they can hold off the rich people in India. That is not now, but about, put it back to 1944-45, during the war time. British time. That hold has become stronger. If we do not eat West, particularly America, then we are called "uncivilized." So to prove that I am civilized, there are three things. I must speak English, my children must go to missionary or convent schools, we must adopt Western customs and etiquette, and we must adopt their eating habits. Now if I'm not accepted in the American society... Even the British is now called uncivilized comparatively. If I'm not accepted by the Americans, that, "Yes, I know the standards and I live like them or even better than them," then I am supposed to be common.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is their imagination. God is canvassing, "Yes, I am here." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "Why don't you think that I am the Supreme?" But these rascals will never believe it. And still they'll write Gītā-pravacana. Very dangerous. Gītā is spoken by God.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Some portion. He wanted to prove himself that he is Puruṣottama.

Dr. Patel: He's not Puruṣottama. He does not say that. Puruṣottama is really reality in true sense and...

Prabhupāda: But his disciples say he is more than Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Disciples..., disciples...

Room Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Woman infidel, they are stoned among the Muhammadans. Christian also. "You have done..." Woman proved unchaste, she was punished. Is it not? The public would stone and kill. You know that punishment? Stoning?

Hari-śauri: Stoning, yes. It's mentioned a lot in early Christian times. They used to stone.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: These rascals, they invent their theories. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara prāptir, and these rascals says "Once." Just see.

Dr. Patel: The rascals have also realized now that there is a dehāntara-prāptir because the parapsychology has proved beyond doubt so many examples recently, at present, that there is a rebirth. People who are reborn and know their past births. They have recognized their parents, their places and secret things also. There was a patient in Rajastan. One was in Northwest India. There was one in South America. They were all published in medical bulletins.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But we don't say Radhakrishnan is authority. We take Caitanya Mahāprabhu as authority.

Hari-śauri: Now we have to prove now that Radhakrishnan was not an authority on the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is not in the paramparā system. You talk with Rāmeśvara like this.

Hari-śauri: Actually, by using the Bhagavad-gītā, we can defeat their argument very easily anyway.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I've defended in every page, that "These rascals have used this." Where is Rāmeśvara?

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: This is false, completely false. "One of the things we can do is give moral support to these families. How better to do it than to show your support by writing to the..."

Prabhupāda: This we can bring a charge against them: "Prove that we wanted money."

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: There's no equal time given. It's one-sided only.

Prabhupāda: That means in the name of justice, injustice is going on.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. This law is unconstitutional. I mentioned that there is a group of lawyers who are now organizing a committee nationwide to defend us, and they're going to prove that this law should be changed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the right cause. Yes.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They can't. That, this nonsense speaking, is going on throughout the history, but they'll never be able. That is the fact. "We are trying. We shall do in future"—these things are going on. But this is all stories. We don't believe in these nonsense things. They'll never be happy. That is not possible. Therefore I challenged your technology that "Where is that department? Do it!" First of all do it. Suppose if a man is in business. He may say that "I am trying to become a millionaire." But he cannot say that "I am millionaire." So the so-called scientist, "Yes, we are trying." You are trying, that's all right. But when you become, then you call scientist. There is no possibility, and because you are trying I have to accept you are scientist? Recently in California University one professor came. He has gained the Nobel Prize, Chemical Evolution. They are trying to prove that life is generated by chemical evolution. So in that meeting I had my one student. He's Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara. He's also big chemist. So he knows. He talks with me. He has got the idea. He has written one book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So he challenged that "Suppose if I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" The answer—"That I cannot say." Why he talks nonsense? He is theorizing that life is made of chemicals, but if you give the chemicals, why you cannot make life? When I was in South Africa... Where is that? Pretoria or something? There are many factories for chicken killing. Chicken incubator. So one of the students, worker there, I said, "Suppose this is a chicken factory. So take one egg and analyze the chemicals. There is some white substance, yellow substance. It is covered with some cell. You can do it, and put that in the incubator and get a chicken. Why don't you do that?" The rascal could not answer. "Don't talk of big, big life. Make a chicken." And this rascal cannot do that, and still, they'll talk big, big words. What do you think? Are they not rascals? These rascals they are talking big, big words. First of all prove. Make one egg. Then talk of big, big brain. Make one egg. It is... Everyone can see. There is some white chemicals and some yellow chemicals, and it is covered, and it... You analyze and combine the chemical in the same way and put it in the incubator and get one chicken. Why? You are technologist. Say why they cannot do it. And when they cannot do it, why they talk so big, big word, mislead others and mislead himself?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa was proved, and still He is proved. Who is reading others' book all over the world? Therefore He is God. Where is that book so respected as Bhagavad-gītā? Who is printing so many books? Not even Bible. They respected Bible. Why the foreigners are reading Bhagavad-gītā? That is the proof that Kṛṣṇa is God. During the Christmas festival we sold our books greatest number in the history. How many copies Bible you have sold? That is the proof. Here is God. Otherwise why Christians should purchase Bhagavad-gītā during Christmas holiday? And because Kṛṣṇa is God, therefore you have come to fight. Who is going to fight with Jehovah? Who is going to fight with Jehovah movement?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Our business is sai vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ (SB 9.4.18). First of all is mentality. Man-manā mad-bhakto. Mental cure, then physically devotee. "Always think of Me." This is the cure, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Beginning: always think of Kṛṣṇa. This is the treatment. It is proved. Mentally he'll be cured. And then physically after. Nice (indistinct). They do not know how things are happening. (japa) Thinking, feeling, willing. First of all thinking, then feeling, then willing, then working. (break) ...and spending for military strength. They are not performing yajña, so how there will be rainfall? There will be warfare, devastation.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: Yes, but their idea is all nonsense.

Prabhupāda: Therefore prove that "You are rascal, nonsense. You do not know what is God."

Rāmeśvara: They think that God has nothing to do. He does everything by His thinking. Just like in the Bible it says...

Prabhupāda: That why do you say nothing to do, rascal? That is doing. He is doing by thinking; that means...

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: Now, one of their arguments is... Their main thing is to try to pretend that it is not a question of religion.

Prabhupāda: So, one thing is that if you have proved a swine, what is the value of your arguments? You have proved that you are a swine. So better stop arguing. What I say, you accept. That is good for you. Because you are descendants of swine, and actually you are doing that.

Rāmeśvara: Actually, on one television show they directly accused Your Divine Grace. They said that you have got us going out every day collecting money, and we have to send all this money to India, to Māyāpur, to build one temple so that you will become famous. And ultimately we will worship you as God.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Why it is happening? Why we have given everything. Our father, mother, our home, our comforts, our ideas, stereotyped, our religion, culture—everything we have given up. So don't you see the power of chanting? You may think it is bad, but see the power. Similarly, these diseased person, if they chant, it has got power to bring him in the normal condition. The power is there. It is already proved. You say it is brainwash, but the power is there. Reaction is there. That's a fact. You are admitting. So now, whether this reaction is good or bad, that you cannot judge because you are bad. But impersonally, if you judge, you see how the power is, that we were drunkards, we were woman-hunter, we were meat-eaters—we have given up. You cannot give up even smoking cigarette. So just this is the power. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12)." Why don't you take this side? The power is there. The electric power is there, either you use it for heater or for cooler. That is your na... But the power is there. Without this power, it cannot run on, either heater or cooler. Give them this recipe(?). "You have to admit. You are admitting that 'Your Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra working on the brain.' So the power is there. You have admitted."

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: They chant and also work the fields.

Prabhupāda: So they, in the beginning, if they are not working... They'll work. We shall supply food, everything. And that... That is well beginning. In Hyderabad they are coming daily, two hundred people. And I kept with them fifty thousand rupees and told... But as soon I came, they have stopped, this, our Haṁsadūta. I do not know what is the reason. He said, "There is no money." I gave them fifty thousand rupees. He said, "There is no money." He's not good manager at all. It has been proved. He's not a good manager. Everywhere failure.

Rāmeśvara: He's very good at kīrtana.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such... They have created this Vivekananda and Cinmayanandas, rascals, so many rascals. They have created such situation that Indian people are mostly in darkness, although God appears here in India. They have executed such thankless task, this Vivekananda, Cinmayananda and so many Māyāvādīs. "Ramakrishna is Bhagavān." And what is his certificate that he is Bhagavān? "He said." No. He said "I am the same Rāma. I am the same Kṛṣṇa." So he is taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa to prove his Godhead. So why not go to original Godhead? Why shall I take the imitation? He is maintaining his position that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa." "So then same Kṛṣṇa is authority. So why shall I not go to same Kṛṣṇa? Why shall I go to you? Your authority is also Kṛṣṇa. So why shall I give up original Kṛṣṇa and take to an imitation Kṛṣṇa? You may be the same, but I am not a very intelligent man. Why shall I go to the imitation? I shall go to the original." Hm? Is it not? "I am not so expert to understand whether you are actual or not. You are saying. There is no proof in the śāstra. So let me go to the original." Is that all right, argument? "Why shall I take you? You are supporting, trying to maintain yourself." Everyone says that "I am Kṛṣṇa. I am God." So India, we have to fight little. There are so many atheists. But mass of people, they are all right.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: There is a period of years which no one can account for.

Prabhupāda: No, even from Christian religion it is proved how uncivilized were the Westerners. "Thou shall not kill." Now, how uncivilized they were. Even they take it the human killing, it is meant, not animal killing. So what kind of society it is?

Hari-śauri: Don't kill human beings.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They do not take it that Kṛṣṇa is God and He's speaking. They do not believe. "God is imperson."

Bhāgavata: His only proof was carbon dating, and that carbon dating has already been proven wrong so many times.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bhāgavata: Can prajāpatis give birth to different species of animal life from their own bodies?

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: It is childish.

Satsvarūpa: But they can say, "Neither is it a proof that it does exist."

Prabhupāda: How you can prove? You can hear only. There are many things which is beyond your sense perception. The example which I often give, that "Who is your father?" What is proof? The proof is the hearing from mother. That's all. You cannot have any other proof.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: No good answer. Bluff.

Prabhupāda: Challenge them like this, that "First of all do it. You are less than the chicken. Why you are claiming so much honor? We treat you, you are fig. You are less important than the chicken. Prove that you have got some power; then claim that you are scientist." Hm? Is that argument all right? What will be the counterargument?

Gurukṛpā: A sane man would accept.

Prabhupāda: They're all rascals. They do not know anything; still, they are claiming very high position.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: They say He should be exemplary. God should be exemplary.

Prabhupāda: No. God is not bound to prove His example character to you. You are a rascal.

Satsvarūpa: Then how will I know what to follow?

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Hari-śauri: Just like that demon on that radio show, after all his spouting out nonsense, at the end he said, "Well, I suppose we'll just have to read the books and find out." Their trick is to try to distract the attention from the books. Because they know the books are very perfect, so they try to say that that's not the issue, what's in the books. The issue is that we're not following what's in the books.

Prabhupāda: But say we are not following. So prove it.

Hari-śauri: We have to bring them back.

Satsvarūpa: Just like one man, on this point about the books, he came up and said, "Where does it say in Hinduism that you should harass people to sell them a book?"

Prabhupāda: It is not Hinduism. It is science.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: It is authorized from the Hindu religious point of view, and it is accepted by the world scholars. So they cannot deny. It is authorized, no, authorized; I can give any statement, and it is up to you to consider. But you have to consider whatever statement. And actually that is done. You have accused me that I have stolen your watch. This is your charge against me. First of all I say, "Oh, this is false charge. I never did it." Now you have to prove that I did it. Naturally this is done. Whatever charges you..., "I've never... I don't accept these charges." Otherwise where there is case? If you charge me with something and if I immediately accept, then where is the case? My statement will be "No, no, I never did so." Now you have to prove that "Yes, I did." That takes time. It is not so easy. You have to give witnesses. You have to give so many things that "Yes, I stole it." But my duty will be: as soon as you charge me, I will say, "No, I never did it." So whatever statement I give, you have to..., the judge has to accept and then scrutinize who is correct. The complainant is correct or the defendant is correct? That is his business.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Hari-śauri: They'll never be able to prove that...

Prabhupāda: Similarly, we have to say, "We have never tried to brainwash. We have done exactly according to śāstra, authority. Here is the evidence. We have not manufactured anything. The evidence is here." They must read all the books. They cannot reject. The Hare Kṛṣṇas... That is their charge. They'll find in every page Kṛṣṇa at least ten times, that "This is Hare Kṛṣṇa." All the books, there must be Kṛṣṇa's name: "This is Hare Kṛṣṇa." I think you should take defense, in that way.

Gurukṛpā: Should depend on Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Satsvarūpa: The foolish public considers them authorities of behavior and the mind.

Prabhupāda: Then everyone, a psychiatrist's recommendation. Even a sane man can be proved that he's a madman by the recommendation of psychiatrist.

Gurukṛpā: Yes.

Gargamuni: Yes, but how can a psychologist judge a religion? That's not his field. They have to bring in scholars whose field is religion.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Then those who are supporting us, our books, they are also.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, we have many witnesses.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: ...to show me. They were telling me that "You are going to see the representative of God." And when I came to that vision, I saw the person. At that time I didn't know who (it) was. But I had some doubts in my mind, and I was thinking, "Oh, that's probably another kind of propaganda." This was all in the dream. But when I came to that person sitting on the elevated seat in that forest, surrounded by many, many devotees, that person looked at me and proved to me that he was the representative of God. But after, I forgot. Maybe one year or something like this. One or two years after...

Prabhupāda: So there is no doubt about it that I am the representative of God.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. But when I was...

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is bogus. Not only he, there are many. They'll simply repeat that. There are many. They come... Many devotees, our life members, big, big men, they come: "Swamiji, I experienced like this. Some man came. Some boy came." Means real purpose is that he wants to prove that he is already connected with higher planetary system. I have got many experiences. They say like that.

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Yes. He advertises sex for..., yoga for two. He has a special price that a couple can come and learn tantra-yoga in America. And then Guru Maharaj-ji, he married.

Prabhupāda: Tantra-yoga means they will have sex, and he will be able not to discharge. That is tantra-yoga. The woman likes a man who does not easily discharge. This is tantra-yoga. So he is teaching that art or science. They will prove their tantric success that while sex there is no discharge.

Satsvarūpa: I spoke to one of them and said that for spiritual life you had to refrain from sex, and he said, "No. If you do this enough, then you will not have any more desire." Otherwise if you just refrain, that is not as thorough.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you talk nonsense if it is not working? Therefore you are nonsense.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So actually it is good. But we have come to a point now even in science that their promises are all going to go wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we want to prove. That is our propaganda. Therefore we have engaged you. Prove that they are all rascals. They are giving false promise.

Yogeśvara: But then they will say "We have produced so many successes also."

Prabhupāda: What is nonsense success? We don't take that success!

Yogeśvara: Well, we have polio vaccine, we have aspirin.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In open discussion they come around to this point, that they're lacking some fundamental knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we have to prove. Therefore I am teasing you. Prove that they are passing on as very intelligent, very advanced, but all rascals. Let them admit that "We are rascals without God consciousness." That is my propaganda. (break) Let them understand that without God consciousness they are rascals. And why the rascals should pass on as very intelligent in the rascal society? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's rascal, and some other small rascals, they are praising, "Oh, you are so great. You are so great."

Yogeśvara: They may challenge us also.

Prabhupāda: What is that challenge?

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Nobody before tried to... (chuckling) So...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nobody's saying as boldly as Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So if I would not have students like you, they would have taken me as crazy man. But now I have engaged you to prove them rascals. That is my ambition. (break) ...life from matter.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Before 1828 in the history of chemistry, there was these scientists. They thought that something, what happens in the body, in the living body, is different than chemistry in the physics. That is called vital theory.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Failure.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it has been completely failed. So now they are thinking about something else, that "Maybe what we thought was all wrong."

Prabhupāda: All wrong. Prove that. This is all wrong.

Gurukṛpā: They won't speak up or they'll lose their jobs.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. So they're coming around. When we say life is nonphysical and nonchemical, this is very touchy word which they don't like to hear in the beginning.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is not science. That I am always speaking, that science means not to observe but to make experiment. And that is science, observation and experiment. If you cannot make experiment, it is all logic. Therefore they say, "theory, theory." The Darwin is careful. He says, "theory." He doesn't say, "science," because he knows that he is talking all nonsense. So this is "theory."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They also say that you cannot prove this ātmā by experiment.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, then it is not science. You cannot prove; then why do you say it can be made by chemical combination.

Satsvarūpa: He's saying that they say our position is we can't prove. We can't prove our...

Prabhupāda: No, we can prove. Just that... Our argument is that this is beyond our experimental. Therefore you have to hear from the authority. That is our proof. Just like you cannot make an experiment who is your father, but you have to hear from your mother. That is the only way. There is no second alternative.

Satsvarūpa: Śabda-pramāṇa.

Prabhupāda: Śabda-pramāṇa. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is another very strange statement in this regard saying that though we cannot prove something by experiment, but sometimes it is convenient to assume that way.

Prabhupāda: No, that is foolishness. How you assume?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is logical positivism, saying that... How, there's a house. Let's say there is a temple there, but since I don't see the temple there, but I don't know that the temple is existing or not, but it is convenient to assume that there is a temple.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Jayapatākā: ...to disprove them. But we have the true fact, but they cannot... Then let them disprove that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: When the people all understand our philosophy then they'll have to disprove us. Otherwise they won't stand. Why we should disprove their nonsense? They haven't proved it yet.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, at the moment they're the majority. So majority carries the vote. That's the slogan. But if they're open-minded, if they are honest... We say, "Be honest, be frank, and be open-minded. Why you confine your small theory?"

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...and these physicists and biologists. We are thinking how to do it.

Prabhupāda: No, here is argument. Here is... A plant is coming. So yoni... The source of birth is called yoni. So yoni is there, the earth. But who begotten this? There must be father. Because we, our experience, without father and mother there is no generation. You prove that, that here is the mother; there is the child. And where is the father? And the father says, "Yes, I am father." Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām. That's all. There must be father. "You do not see." This is not logic. There must be father. So there must be God; otherwise how they are coming? By whose arrangement? Now, the exact fruit and flower will come from this. You bring another tree. Not it will resemble like. Varieties of life. You cannot say it is accident. Huh? Why not accident—the red flower comes here and the white flower comes there? Accident? They're standing for years. Why there is not a single accident? And accident. You say, "accident."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is a nonsense theory.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...saying these things.

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning, submission. Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). That is the beginning of bhakti-yoga. And if you remain just like the scissor man, then you'll never learn.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And once we bring this bhakti-yoga, we can prove very easily that the Supreme Being, must be a person.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have some relations.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is speaking as person. (break)

Devotee (1): ...possibility that there is a soul and that there is a God. But when... I showed them a Fifth Canto, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and they were reading about the structure of the universe in the Bhāgavatam, and this was completely opposite to all their experiments. So if this is actually a fact, then why can't it be proved experimentally that the Bhāgavatam statements on the origin of the universe and so on are correct?

Prabhupāda: It is correct. How they can prove it is incorrect?

Devotee (1): Well they say that by mathematics we can prove the position...

Prabhupāda: So we have got our mathematics also. (break) ...workers. In the beginning I was alone. Now we have got so many things. So we shall come out triumphant.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's Prabhupāda's mercy.

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Just see. How envious.

Jayapatākā: Naturally, any letter to the chief minister, they...

Prabhupāda: Take action.

Jayapatākā: ...take action.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Canada, Australia. The problem is that... Actually it's a fact that many of these groups are bad. They're cheating. Of course, ours is not, but because they're not very intelligent, they cannot see the distinction. Probably as a result of this court case, we will make them aware that now the other groups are bogus but we are not. That they'll have to admit. That will be the effect. But at least up until now we are being lumped in with these other bad groups. Cults, they call them. But it's a very dangerous thing. Therefore the lawyers and all of the scholars and intelligentsia of the United States is very alarmed that this is a great treading on human rights. This is a great danger to human rights because the Fifth Amendment of the... The First Amendment of the United States Constitution guarantees the freedom of religion. But according to these laws that they want to pass, a parent can say, "It is not a question of religion. My son has become abnormal." So who is to say what is religion and what is abnormal? They are saying, "This is not religion." So we have to prove, "No, this is... Hare Kṛṣṇa is a religion." Otherwise they are saying this is abnormal. Now, just... Our lawyer has pointed out that if you say that the devotees' preaching is brainwash, then you must say that every single Christian priest who preaches, he is also brainwashing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: When Arjuna wanted to stop fighting, Kṛṣṇa chastised him.

Prabhupāda: And he wants to prove nonviolence from Gītā. Just see how foolish he was. If you say publicly that he was a rascal, fool, then you become unpopular. But actually he was a rascal fool. (laughs) Artificial. Kṛṣṇa says, "You fight," and these rascals say, "Nonviolent." He's more than cheating. Māyāvādī.

Hari-śauri: Cheater.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: Yes, this is good.

Prabhupāda: So we have to prove that "You have no brain at all. Your brain is like cats and dogs. That is not brain. Even if you are scientist, philosopher, the position of your brain is the same. You do not know what is that thing missing that a living being is dead. You do not know. For centuries in the history you could not answer this. So where is your brain?" On this point discuss you amongst yourselves. Write one article and send, signing your name. Is it not a fact, that "brain-giving" movement? There is no brain. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). "If you had brain, then you could understand. But you have no brain. Where is the question of washing? It is brain-giving movement." Am I right or wrong?

Pradyumna: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Pradyumna: Ah. They say... When they say brainwashing, they think they're losing their intelligence by our movement. But actually they have no intelligence to begin with.

Prabhupāda: No begin...

Pradyumna: If we prove that...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: They have no intelligence, again. Where is the question...?

Prabhupāda: So you have to prove.

Ādi-keśava: They complain of loss of identity, but actually that loss of identity, they don't know who they are.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ādi-keśava: So what can they lose?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So that does not mean they are taking snake. You are so rascal that you are falsely charging. Everything based on false charges.

Ādi-keśava: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: You have to prove that, that "Where we are taking snake?" Analogy must be given when there is similarity. Where is? Are we taking the snake and dancing?

Ādi-keśava: No. We're not doing this.

Prabhupāda: Then why this analogy? This is defective analogy.

Ādi-keśava: It is their ignorance.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: They're always accusing us that we are the cheaters. But every time, when we answer them, they are exposed as the cheaters. They are shown to be the ones that really don't know, yet they're all saying that they know.

Prabhupāda: It is a good chance for explaining our mission. You should very carefully do it. Finish. Lay it... (break) (someone enter and offers obeisances) I was talking with Ādi-keśava that "There is no question of brainwash, but you have no brain." You have to prove. "How I have no brain?" "Because you do not know what is the difference between a dead man and living man. For centuries in the history, you people, you had no brain that whether the body is important or the active principle which is working within the body, that is important. You have no brain." Challenge them. Which one is important? The body's important or the active principle which is moving the body, that is important? What is important? Hm?

Tripurāri: Active principle, the soul.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "What proof is there?" they may argue.

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Now, if the real active principle has left, the brain has left, the mind has left—it is only a lump. You cannot understand. If you understand it, then replace it. If you cannot, then you have no brain. You have to prove that, that "You have no brain at all. Where is the question of brainwashing?"

Hari-śauri: But if we operate on a person's brain, actual brain substance, it affects his personality. So therefore the personality in the brain is the same.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: The dog has a brain.

Prabhupāda: The dog has also brain: "Where there is food? Where there is sex?" He has got brain. Not that brain. That brain, everyone has got. Even a small fly, it has got. So think over like that and place very intelligently in the court. The... Prove that "You have no brain at all. This movement is giving, brain-giving. Not brainwashing." You have to prove. Not brainwashing but brain-giving.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can say it from our own realization.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Yes. They say, "Think for yourself," but they don't know what themselves are. They don't know "Who am I," so how can they think for themselves?

Prabhupāda: That you have to prove, that "You have no brain, no intelligence. Therefore you are finding out completely different. On which platform we are speaking, you do not know. So that platform, first of all you have to distinguish—it is matter or spirit? Then spiritual. You have no idea what is spirit, and where is spiritual platform. Therefore Kṛṣṇa begins from this point, that the spirit is within, not this body. That is your identity."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That has to be stressed.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Do that. Think deeply, over and over again, and fight. What is your seeing? Useless. What you can see? You cannot see beyond this wall. Does it mean there is nothing? Why you depend on your seeing, rascal? That means brainless. So I take it, it is good opportunity for describing our whole philosophy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa's arrangement.

Prabhupāda: You don't take it otherwise. Rather, prove yourself efficient in this subject matter. This is a trial examination for this knowledge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya. (devotees offer obeisances—break)

Prabhupāda: Ask question. I shall give answer. (break)

Brahmānanda: They say that we have no personal choice. Once we become..., join this movement, we have no longer any personal choice.

Prabhupāda: So we are all fools, we have joined?

Satsvarūpa: We're taken advantage of. They say that young boys, they don't know, and they're just taken advantage of.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is wrongly said by...? So you should be convinced that the Western people, they have no brain. Now this is brain-giving movement, para-upakāra. They have no brain, and we have to educate them. Brain there is. The human brain is meant for that purpose. Even one is an ass, dull, he can be educated. That is their facility. Animals cannot be educated, but human being, even he is born like animal... Just like these children. If you don't educate them, they will remain like that, fools and rascals. If you educate, they'll be nice. So they require to cleanse their brain. Why they are...? That we have to prove. This is the opportunity. They should admit honestly that they have no brain. Now this movement is brain-giving movement. Hm? You are Tripurāri. Tripura was the place for the demon, and ari, ari means enemy. You should know very well. The Western people are very much proud of manufacturing very complicated machines. They sometimes report, "We have manufactured this. We have manufactured this." Do they not say?

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: So they were saying, "I will not make an egg now. In twenty years I will make you a chicken." They say, "I can't make an egg now, but in twenty years I'll make you a chicken."

Prabhupāda: Without egg where is chicken? Where is that example? Why you are talking again? Where (laughter) is that chicken made? Rascal. Without egg where is the chicken? So challenge them like that. Prove them that they have no brain. So there is immediately, automatically... "You have no brain. Where is the question of brainwash?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good one. This will be... This will astound them. It will put them back twenty foot. They won't know what to reply. They're coming in one way, and you're giving them a whole other...

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Head lying. No. "Keeping the head northern side." (Bengali) So if one man was asked that "Don't keep your head on the northern side," he says, "I have no head. Where is the question of uttara dike?" (Bengali) So first of all prove that you have got brain; then the question of brainwash... You have no brain. You are all dull stone. Where is the question of brainwashing? Prove them. This is very nice. Humorous, at the same time very nice. People will observe. Prove that they have no brain.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I do not say that we are very good brain. We are servant of God. We have nothing to show, any brain. Our brain will be shown by our master. Our position is God. So we are not very much anxious to show our... But you are godless rascals. You want to show your brain. Show me machine. We have all accepted that supreme brain is Kṛṣṇa and we are servant. That is our position. We don't say that "Independent. There is no God." We don't. You say that. We are working under superior brain. So the case has to be proved by you, not by us. What is called, onus? What is that, onus?

Brahmānanda: Burden of proof.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your duty, not us. You have to prove it. (break) And now don't go to the court with any other dress. Preach like this. Preach there with this dress. Have they any objection with this dress?

Hari-śauri: In this dress.

Ādi-keśava: I agree. I think it is very good that they see us dressed like this in court.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we should...

Ādi-keśava: They will understand what we are.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Yes. I'm making spares of all these tapes, so they can take them back with them and listen to them.

Prabhupāda: All tell, "You have no brain. So where is the question of brainwash?" That you have to prove, that "You have no brain. You are all dull-headed, animals." This is our challenge. "And animals cannot... Their brain cannot be washed, but washed, I have brain, yes... Because a human being, we have tried. At the present you have no brain. All useless."

Hari-śauri: But, you say, by presenting this to the court, then they'll have to prove or they'll have to try and disprove or establish that they have a brain, and then the whole thing come out, what is actual intelligence and what is simply cat-and-dog intelligence.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: You want sweet water?

Prabhupāda: Where is that miśri? No, we have to fight. Devise means, ways, how to fight. That's all. But try to prove that they have no brain. Actually that is the fact. Nobody has brain, especially in this age. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Mūḍha means one who has no brain. Mūḍha, this word, applies to the ass, because ass has no brain. He works so hard for little grass, which is available everywhere. But still, he thinks that "This washerman is giving me grass." Therefore mūḍha.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Their terms do not expire. Anyway, he has got Ph.D. in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, but he does not know Caitanya philosophy. Otherwise how he said that Jagabandhu is incarnation of Gaura-Nitāi? Or something like that, he said. He does not know. One who does not know what is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, how he gets his doctorate title on that philosophy? Even if he has got by some means, but where is the authority to prove that Jagabandhu is the combination of Gaura-Nitāi? No ācārya has said like that—Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura or Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, Viśvanātha Cakravartī. Where he got this bogus idea? Do you believe in that?

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Neither have you seen Brahmaloka.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that we hearsay, and you also hearsay. Then were is the difference? I hearsay from Bhāgavata, you hearsay from astronaut. The position is, your position and my..., the same. If you don't believe me, why shall I believe you? You are not in better position. It has been proved that many cheater scientists and many doctors, cheaters. Why shall I believe you?

Hari-śauri: But there are thousands of men working on the space program. There are thousands of men working on the space program.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Ādi-keśava: They are afraid of their own status. They are worried that... Because they work in those courts every day, and this is an unpopular issue, so they are afraid because their position is not so secure, so they will not help us in that way. They will come and talk to me and give some advice, but they don't want their name in the courtroom. So sometimes this is difficult, because we need expert lawyers, but these lawyers are atheists, so sometimes they argue with me. They say, "Why are you always trying to preach in the court when we are trying to present your case?" I said, "That is my business, and I am paying you." So sometimes they are arguing, "No, if you want to win this case, then we have to argue in this way." Just like when we were... They were questioning on the stand, and our one devotee was reading Bhagavad-gītā for the answers, and they were objecting, our lawyers, saying, "No, we shouldn't do this." But I was saying, "No, this is the way that they will see that we are genuine." In the end it proved it was right. The judge respected that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we must argue from our books. Therefore I say without any lawyer. Keep one lawyer to present, but our arguments should be from the books.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially if you can give with this medicine, then it will take away the bitter taste.

Prabhupāda: ...pāṇḍu-ratha, Lord Viṣṇu is there. (break) And we are speaking, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), completely opposite. So let them prove that this portion who have improved, it is an happy position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They cannot prove. But they say, "You also cannot prove anything."

Prabhupāda: No, we say that this place is suffering. Therefore we have to leave this, our total exi... We don't say "This place is for suffering, and by material advancement of science we shall improve." We don't say. We totally reject it, that "It is a place of suffering. Why shall I remain here?"

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is very good, putting the quantity on the cover. It's very impressive. (devotees talking among themselves about books) It's like McDonald's. They advertise...

Prabhupāda: This is the combination of American money and Indian culture. This is the result. In every field of our activities, this will prove wonderful, American money and Indian culture. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Therefore Kṛṣṇa sent me to America. "Go America." Generally people come to Western country means London. But I never thought of that. I thought, "I shall go to New York," from the very beginning.

Rādhā-vallabha: Īśopaniṣad also. "Over one million copies in print" at the top.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: In my old Back to Godhead I discussed Gandhi, Churchill, Jhinna, but with reference to the philosophy. I criticized them on the basis of our philosophy.

Rāmeśvara: For example, Rūpānuga just wrote one article which we published, and in this article he was describing some work of some scientists in Europe. They were trying to prove by their experiments that life comes from life. So he was quoting them. He was describing their work, but the whole purpose was to get people to accept the Vedas, to show that even the scientist's conclusion is the same as the Vedas. Therefore the Vedas are authorized.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is nice.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom...? Forty rupees. So it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. So if we work sincerely, Kṛṣṇa will supply us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That point we have seen proven more than anything else. You've always said this, and more and more, Kṛṣṇa is supplying everything.

Prabhupāda: No, it is, after all, Kṛṣṇa's. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). It is His property. As soon as He sees that "Here is My real servant." "Give him all facility." It is stated in the... Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām... (BG 10.10). You know? Nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. Everything is there.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is also our conclusion, that... Especially it is very useful in India to refer to Bhagavad-gītā. I bring up Bhagavad-gītā. I said, "If this can be done, then Bhagavad-gītā will be wrong."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prove that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it's not possible. So I also spoke in an Indian school in Bombay. There are about some three hundred students, plus professors. We even had a short kīrtana, Girirāja and about four five devotees, selling little books outside. So there was... They wanted us start with a kīrtana. So we started Hare Kṛṣṇa, and then they themselves started. The students started leading kīrtana. And I spoke on the... They all saw all the nice equipment...

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is that intellectual?

Girirāja: I think the idea is that if everything is just coming from matter and there's no God, then there's no rules and regulations to restrict the sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: But that you could not prove. You are under some control. Why don't you see to that? You may think you are independent, but you are under control. Nobody wants to die—you die. So what is the benefit of showing that "I am independent"? (pause) Any arrangement with any bank for our temple branch? (break) What is the situation of the tenants?

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: And we discussed the sannyāsa recommendations. No one who was recommended last year for sannyāsa was approved this year. During the year they did not prove well. No one is here for initiation. And for next year no recommendations were made. Then... One man... And I was accepted as editor in chief of Back to Godhead. The details of the editorial policies that I should follow, I can take in consultation from my other GBC Godbrothers. And further, in an attempt to set a uniform standard so that Back to Godhead is like scripture, I should function as editor for all Back to Godheads published in the various languages. In this I should work in cooperation with the co-editors and BBT trustees of the various foreign language BTGs. There may be various co-editors of those magazines, but I will be responsible to keep a uniform standard.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So if you combine together and go to any scientist, you challenge and prove scientifically. And still he sees it mistake. You do not know what is life's position, but we shall. Life is different. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Without life, this matter has no value. This room is well decorated, well furnished. Why? Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. Because the life is there. If there was no life, then who cares for Bombay? Heaps of stone, that's all. Who cares for it? So you do not know that particular item and try to convince them according to the modern scientific... Then we shall be triumphant. Everything. Everything. Challenge these rascals, that "You have got power and you will get more power by serving Kṛṣṇa." Your presentation was very nice.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: All right, all right. That will be arranged.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is not a sectarian. It is full of... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). So it is practically proved, how they are taking Bhagavad-gītā. So it is science. It is actually life. So why not practice in India? It is not that everyone will be able, but there must be an exemplary sect. People may see that there is ideal. That we can do. India it is easier, because those who are born in India, constitutionally they have got that tendency. Simply we have to channelize. Then everything will be... So there is a good chance. Now the government has changed. They are after something very good, and the direction is there. If you take it seriously, there will be no difficulty.

Mr. Rajda: No, definitely we shall take it up seriously, very seriously. We have no chance in the sense we are ourselves in prison after I met you last. Immediately we were taken in. And this all hullabaloo came about, reactions and all this. It is only now that we get the breathing time.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Kali-yuga... (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...to go to the universities all over and present Kṛṣṇa consciousness as a science. Write articles, using medical science to prove that Kṛṣṇa is the origin. (indistinct)

Dr. Sharma: And there is a lot of scientific data in our ancient scriptures which I told them that if they go through from their point of view they will find lot of things in Purāṇas, in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in many Vedic...

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You have got that stage, so you should invite all scholarly people, every Sunday, Saturday, hold meeting, challenge them. In this way. Kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam.

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā

sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ

avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito

yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam

(SB 1.5.22)

Avicyutaḥ artha. It is the infallible conclusion that your education should be perfected when you can prove through your educational talents that there is God. Then it is... Avicyutaḥ artha. Avicyutaḥ means there is no fallacy—infallible. So that we have to do. Any other scientists joined from India?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: India, not yet.

Prabhupāda: What is their opinion? They are afraid of joining?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will come. Some of them are very favorable.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There is one doctor who lives on our land. He wants to work with them in proving that God exists. He has his M.V.B. from Russia.

Prabhupāda: Russia is also purchasing our books. If the scientists do not believe in God, what is the reason?

Dr. Sharma: They just want a valid proof.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. The real thing he does not know. We know. We know on the basis of śāstra, authorities, ācāryas, so many. And what is your support? Your support is yourself. Then everyone will do that. His support is himself. Everyone will become authority. "I think, I believe." What is this nonsense, your belief? These things should be stopped now. (Hindi) Misleading, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). These conditioned souls, very stringently bound up hands and legs by the laws of nature, they are trying to lead the human society. This rascaldom must be stopped. You do not know. Say you do not know. That's all. Why you mislead others? Giving them false knowledge. If you do not know even the distinction between the living entity and the material elements... You are trying to prove the living entity is also combination of these material elements, chemicals. Such a rascal you are. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedam (BG 7.5). It is very important thing. You do not know anything about it. Kṛṣṇa again says, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi. Negative definition. Still, you are so rascal, you do not understand, and you are misleading innocent persons. So combine together as many as possible and go and challenge.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Rather, if she remains in the Congress, Congress is finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She is trying to remain, it seems.

Prabhupāda: That is... Then Congress will lose all importance. Her very name has to be driven out. And it is proved that majority of the congressmen, they are rogues. They supported her. I have...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyone that is in power too long... There's a saying, "Power corrupts." Anyone who becomes too long in power becomes corrupted. That's why change is required. In America they have mandatory that the president can only hold for two terms position. Then he cannot again run.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whatever name you can give, it is not civilization. That we have to... Not that "How they are cheating." But it is not human civilization; it is animal. Just as animals cheat naturally. Animal fight. So we have to prove this is animal civilization. (Bengali or Hindi) This is not human civilization. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness it is not human civilization. That we have to prove. How it is not? You have to prove that "This is animal civili... This is not human civili..." Real human business is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's para-upakāra. In ignorance they are doing all nonsense. Stop them. Give them knowledge. This Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is real civilization. That we have to prove. It is clearly stated in... Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious-duṣkṛtina, simply cheating. And therefore narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And human life he's spoiling by cheating like animal. Who cheats? The man who doesn't care for the authority. He cheats. And if a man is afraid of law and government, he does not cheat. So godless person means cheater.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: For example, my due respect for the medical profession, into which fortunately and unfortunately (indistinct) I have to tell this. Throughout the world not the best genetician doctor can prove to the soul of soul is the child of man. Nobody can tell who is the father. Medical profession. The real existence of his being is taken as sure faith. If the mother says, (indistinct). He takes it for granted, faith, (indistinct) praise the mother and calls so and so his father. Because he trusts.

Prabhupāda: Mother is called father?

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: No, it has nothing to do with the Indian government accepting. When once we request somebody in the cultural society, and the Indian embassy governs as a function, and we deliver lecture and we invite some of the Russians, we will give it to them also.

Prabhupāda: We can send some of our scientist disciples to prove scientifically there is God. If you can arrange, I can send my scientist disciples.

Dr. Sharma: For that they require a visa.

Prabhupāda: Visa, of course, we can...

Dr. Sharma: They will ask for this visa. That once they come to know that scientifically they want to prove the existence of God, etcetera, etcetera, they may have some problems in getting a visa. This man has been asking...

Prabhupāda: That means they restrict also everyone to speak about God.

Dr. Sharma: They restrict everything.

Prabhupāda: So then it is very difficult.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eleven... I mean, I won't say it's correct. I have eleven minutes after.

Upendra: Yeah, that's...

Prabhupāda: And the idea was to prove that Americans are better advanced in science than China and Russia. That was the only aim. Only for this purpose they spent three billions...?

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "I don't care for you." (Hindi) Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mama māyā. That means he's engaged, she's engaged for beating with shoes. But he cannot understand, although Kṛṣṇa is coming personally to make him understand, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). (Hindi) Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa; everything is finished. So it is up to you, whether you prefer to be beaten by shoes continually or you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That depends on you. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Don't manufacture nonsense things. (Hindi) Rascaldom. "Simply surrender to Me." (Hindi) ...manufacture... (Hindi) ...ism, this ism, that ism, that ism. (Hindi) The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. (Hindi) ...nonviolence... (Hindi) Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). The first word is (Hindi). And you want to prove it, nonviolence. (Hindi) ...rascaldom... (Hindi) The first word is used, yuyutsavaḥ. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) Violence required to keep the society in order. (Hindi) Who will give protection? Sab scientific. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) "So don't trust woman and politician." This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. And she is both politician and woman. We have got Mahābhārata, there is not a single instance... We had very, very great, qualified women. But they were in charge of state...? Very, very qualified women. You know. Na svatantratām arhati, striyaḥ. For woman there is no independence. The Manu-saṁhitā. They must stay under father, under husband, or under elderly sons. Three stages. Kuntī...

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: That is explained. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi mām. He is also within body, but that is the difference between Him and you. You are limited within your body, and He is unlimited. He is everywhere. So how you can become God? Therefore one who says, "I am God," he's a fool. You cannot say what I am thinking now or what I am suffering. You cannot prove. But He can feel your suffering and feeling, and that is the difference. Here it is clearly said, kṣetra-jñaṁ ca. Ca means also. Also means "I am there." Not one. Two. Kṣetra-jñaṁ ca api māṁ viddhi.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Ah, Vṛndāvana. So we are publishing these books, altogether about eighty-four books, to prove that kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. This is our... There is God, and the Supreme Being, Supreme Lord, is Kṛṣṇa. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). This verdict of Vyāsadeva we are preaching. You can speak something about Kṛṣṇa. Hm?

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Stand up.

Pradyumna: Stand up?

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: No, if the rascals—again we have to say "the rascals"—the rascal leaders mislead them, there is no hope.

Indian man (5): There is no hope.

Prabhupāda: There is no hope. Now, to prove Bhagavad..., from Bhagavad-gītā, nonviolence, how it is possible? Bhagavad-gītā begins with the word yuyutsavaḥ. And now, if you want to make it nonviolent, that is misleading. Yuyutsavaḥ means fighting spirit. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). So where is nonviolence there? But our leaders want to prove Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. Is not misleading? Hm? Why you should misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā?

Indian man (5): Swamiji, there is no salvation for this country?

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This one is to prove from mathematics that life cannot come from matter. This one is The Laws of Consciousness and the Laws of Nature, to prove by quantum mechanics that there must be Supersoul, Paramātmā. There must be Kṛṣṇa to direct all the source of knowledge. And there is no way that life can come from matter. This was the basic difference between spirit and matter. From Bhagavad-gītā we use kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānam, from Bhagavad-gītā, Chapter 13.3, "To understand the distinction between matter, physical body, and life, the spirit, or the knower of the field, is called knowledge." And we expounded this. We give the nice examples. We make their chemical theory of life as the "molecular fairy tale." So that makes quite nicely adjusted to their theory.

Prabhupāda: Ātreya Ṛṣi can go for some time, Bangladesh. They... He went there. Both Hindus and Muslims, they have regard to our society. And explain.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is our position. We have to select our worker from the worst class of the society, pāpī and tāpī. But, we shall prove, by hari-nāma they become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the movement. You trace the history of everyone. All worst, third class. And they come here. And that is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. How many Doctor Svarūpa has come? If we speak frankly, (laughter) all from the worst class. Those who were finished. And Kṛṣṇa... It is said, pāpī-tāpī jata chilo. Pāpī and tāpī, they are not first class. They are the tenth class. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is the test of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, that how many pāpī-tāpīs have been picked up.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chance.

Prabhupāda: Chance? Chance is science?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we are proving that all their theories are wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One by one.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. That is why we want to have a very strong discussion in Bose Institute.

Prabhupāda: He wanted to give to the Western world that there is life in plants, the same Vedic knowledge. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you mention in one of your books that he has proved that the plants also have feelings.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is his contribution. He is the first man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you know him, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Satya śamo damo titikṣa ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva... (BG 18.42). Where is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Dr. Kapoor, your Godbrother? There's an article that was published in Back to Godhead. So he proves that spirit can be brought out of matter, provided that the bhakti, the brāhmaṇa, the person, develops brahminical qualities to the point of purity. And he uses the example of Prahlāda Mahārāja, that because Prahlāda Mahārāja had developed such a pure love for Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa came out of a material element, the pillar, to prove Himself: "Here is God." So spirit came right out of matter. So Dr. Kapoor used the point that if you want to see spirit, qualify yourself. Then you'll be able to see spirit. You can make spirit come right out of matter.

Prabhupāda: That is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And I requested him whether he's interested in this type of conference. And I also started talking about evolution. So he told me that it's already proven that life comes from chemicals. Then I told him that "How do you know?" He told me what he had understood, but he couldn't tell anything. And I told him that "These are all stories. So you think that whatever knowledge is coming from the West, the Western countries, the United States, is the ultimate. It's written in books, and you never think what is written in the Gītā, in Bhagavad-gītā." He's also a brāhmaṇa. He's a tri-vedi. So I started telling that "These are all fairy tale stories, and we'd like to prove that whatever science knows so far, it's all wrong." So he was very interested in what I said, (Prabhupāda chuckles) and he said that he's very interested to take part in our conference, and he's coming. So they can bring many scientists from Agra to participate in the conference. So...

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Ask best... (Bengali)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have to be serious because this is a threat to the existing scientific theory. So they cannot just remain silent. They have to do something, 'cause otherwise we are going to propagate it, it's all wrong. So they have to do something. They cannot just remain silent because... We are not just speaking. There will be books, proving that these are all nonsense.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) You have got increased snuff boxes?

Upendra: Er, one little one and that big one there. I'll check to see if there's any more.

Prabhupāda: Life is a different material.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Life?

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It also says, "Supreme Being, creator and the ruler of the universe."

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It also says, "the Absolute Truth."

Prabhupāda: Hm. So it is there in the dictionary, it is in the Vedas, and practically proved. In the Vedas confirmed, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). The Supreme Being is the chief living being. There are so many living beings, but He is the original living being. He is original, eternal substance, and the living beings, the are also eternal, same quality, but He is the Supreme.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You are God—limited. Limited God. You cannot maintain. Therefore you are limited. You can become God within your family, within your office, within your kingdom. You are not Supreme God. To a limited extent you are God. Because you have got the quality of God, so according to your capacity, within limited jurisdiction, you may be God. So dictionary is there. Vedic assertion is there. Logic is there. Science is there. Prove. Then your education will be successful. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpitaḥ. When you can prove this, then the meaning of your education will become... Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22). To glorify the exalted position of God, that is... Is it clear?

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). From Brahmā we have come. And Brahmā is generated from Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. So let them come forward and discuss. So we have to prove to the world that it is not brainwashing. It is real knowledge. Why you should keep it suppressed and leave the people in ignorance? It is not your duty to bluff and cheat. That is not science. You are cheating people and getting Nobel Prize. That we have to..., in a large scale.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) When there is argument? Nonsense, how you can argue? And therefore you are rascal. And that is also forbidden. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: "Things which are beyond your conception, don't foolishly argue, rascal." That will prove your rascaldom. Better accept what the authority says. It is beyond your conception, rascal. Why you are wasting time? That we want to say, that all of them are rascals, and they are simply wasting time by false idea. Cheating. You know, there are companies. They'll... They have got photographic studio. So they adjust their moon hoax. They'll help you. If you have got particular idea... They are going to the moon planet, Mars. Nowhere the rascals go. There is no knowledge. How they can go? Teeny, imperfect. So if we can prove that they have no knowledge of the universe, neither of the position of their...

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. He was rascal speculator. He took the idea from the Vedic literature, and he wanted to take the credit himself, and the different hodgepodge theory, this is... Britishers took the idea from Vedic literature and presented in British way. Britisher wanted that "We are the monopolizers of all scientists, all big men." Sir Isaac Newton, then the, who is that, Darwin, big politicians, Gladstone, everything big-British. They wanted it. "British means all big men. Therefore we must rule over the world." All Lords, Sirs, and this and that... They wanted to prove, "The only big men of the universe, they take birth in England, and therefore we should rule over the world." (laughs) And this was their pledge.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, guestroom should not be misused by the unnecessary women and children. That should be allowed. If one cannot pay, she may go the mass.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. I've always tried to minimize that problem.

Prabhupāda: No, "try..." Actually prove. No, don't try.

Akṣayānanda: I'm doing it, actually, at the expense of... They get angry but...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of angry. It is not our...

Akṣayānanda: Just recently I sent about three or four of them out, and they all became...

Prabhupāda: If they want to live without any payment, let them go to Māyāpur. There is enough place. We don't deny that. But here, in the guestroom, they will occupy without any payment.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing they say...

Prabhupāda: They say, we are saying so many things. In the court there are two parties. I say something, another party says. The judge is there. He has now decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they'll ask for the verse to prove it, and we must quote the correct śloka to substantiate our claim.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That the judge gives. Judges according to lawbook. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). So we have to approach the right person who can give the judgment. What is their answer about this, that by chemical combination they cannot produce life? Still why they are insisting?

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why if one is settled up that he's a rascal, we should not hear anything. And why not? He has not gone to the moon. They are insisting, "Yes, we have gone," by false propaganda. Why the one who makes false propaganda and one who says nonsense, we have to believe? Immediately, whatever he says, reject. There's no argument. You have proved yourself rascal so we don't accept any statement. What do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well I'm just trying to think of the description of Jambūdvīpa.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you say. But be aware you are rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we have the practical task of...

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "You are imperfect. So whatever you have written, that is nonsense. And everywhere problem. Why should we waste our time?" Now just try to settle from point of. He's showing this book, I am showing the Bhāgavatam. So you are imperfect, that's a fact. What is the value of your book? If you are basically a rascal, then what is the value of your book? Why shall I waste my time? First of all I take it and I prove it that you are a rascal. You show your book, I show my book. But you have been proved that you are a rascal. Because practically you cannot cross Himalaya. You have no idea what is the Himalaya. You are giving some conflict.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-prema: How to take them to (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: There is no question of take them. If you take, he's all right. If you don't take, we cannot change.

Bhakti-prema: As long as we cannot show them.

Prabhupāda: First of all you have to prove that you are imperfect.

Bhakti-prema: That has already been proved.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You're simply insisting on things by "probably." "Probably beyond the Himalaya there is something." That is one thing. We say "Definitely, here is. Beyond the Himalayas like this, that." That is the difference. You say "probably," I say "definitely." Father, mother said, "Here is your father." You can say "probably," and mother is saying "definitely." She knows perfectly. You may say probably he may be your father, but mother knows that definitely. Therefore we take Vedas as mother, Purāṇas as sister. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is explaining it.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-prema: This is combined with description.

Prabhupāda: Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. What is beyond your conception, don't try to. So that is Vedic civilization. They were satisfied with information received from the Vedas.

Bhakti-prema: The first and last thing we have to prove logically that this is...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Logically you cannot. Acintya. Logic comes when it is conceivable; but it is inconceivable. Where is your logic?

Bhakti-prema: But first to prove them right understanding we have to bring them.

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. Acintya.

Yaśodā-nandana: If such a thing as going from one place to the other on earth, this is cintya, this is conceivable.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is the logic?

Yaśodā-nandana: I don't want any logic. The scientists will come to the planetarium and ask...

Prabhupāda: How they can? Scientist is rascal. That is proved. They are insisting that chemical can produce life. He's a rascal. They have gone to moon planet. That's a rascal. So what is the value of so-called scientist. Why should we give any importance? I'm not giving any importance. If you become scientist, that so much ghee and so much āṭā makes puri, and we can eat very nicely, all right, you are a scientist. But so much chemicals, make it life—prove that. The confectioner is also scientist. He knows very well how to do his business. A carpenter is also scientist. Here is some work nice done by the carpenter. I cannot do it. You may be a great scientist, but me? It is not possible for me to do a carpentry work. In this way it is going on. (Bengali) You have learned something, you can do it very nicely. But I cannot do it. For me it will be beating by the rod if I am given this work. I can translate, my work. So everyone is scientist, his own field of activities, to some extent. You cannot make everyone agree. That is not... Vox populi you cannot. That is not possible. What is that vox populi?

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I think that is not good. You should go positively instead of attacking some particular person. They will never admit that they have been failure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but we can prove that they are. See, his whole point of his book is that he wants to attack others.

Prabhupāda: No. That will not be good. That will create a section of enemy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what he's asking. He thought it would...

Prabhupāda: Satyaṁ vada mā likha. You can criticize them with your mouth, but don't put into writing. That will create a section of enemy. Then we'll have to fight with the enemy one after another. That will be wasting of time and energy. What is the use of criticizing them? They are failure. Failure. Finish. Let us prove by action that all others are failures. And they will be automatically. Just like the Bala-yogi is failure now. (chuckles) Whatever it is. The Transcendental Meditation is going to be failure. And so many others. To criticize them means to give them some importance, that "the rival to Hare Kṛṣṇa." We don't care for them. We go on positively, and automatically they are failure.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam, kṛṣṇa-sampraśno yenātmā suprasīdati (SB 1.2.5). Happiness is there. Unless you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there is no question of... This is a false happiness, that "If I get money, I'll be happy." That is false. So many men, they have got money. We see practically. The whole European civilization, American civilization, is based on this fundamental idea that "Let us have money and we shall be happy." And nobody is happy. Nobody is happy, a single man. Very big, big buildings, very nice car, very nice road, but there is no question of happiness. Always restlessness. Is it not? They are practically proved. And becoming implicated, karma-bandha, loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9), one after another, one after another. Because he is not independent, he is under karma-bandhana. If you touch fire, it must burn you. You cannot avoid it. That is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sar... (BG 3.27), ahaṅkāra-vimūḍha. Are you independent? Suppose if you touch fire, are you independent that your finger will not burn? It must burn. So you'll search after so much so-called happiness—they're simply burning their finger, that's all. Karma-bandhanaḥ. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). So I'm insisting you about this distribution of the book. That is a service. If you can do some pushing on these books some way or other, you get material profit; at the same time, it is service.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So they say, therefore, when you're on this side and the sun is here, you won't see, but when it turns around, then you'll see the sun. But the Bhāgavatam does not agree with that description. The Bhāgavatam says that you don't see the sun because it's blocked by the Meru. The sun is moving, and Meru is blocking. And they never even heard of Meru. What is their knowledge? Such a big mountain and they don't even know about it. That means they never left the earth's sphere. They never went more than a few hundred miles in the air, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's all lies.

Prabhupāda: All. That I am speaking from the very beginning. Now it is proved. They are also saying.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, about the moon hoax.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They could not answer this, "Why Sunday first, Monday?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was with you when that reporter came in Los Angeles. Prabhupāda said, "Then answer to this one question, 'Why all over the world, Sunday comes before Monday?' "

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And there are certain indisputable facts. For example...

Prabhupāda: Big, big ministers are in favor of our movement, Morarji Desai and Vajpayi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But certain things are going to have to come out. For instance, two men seriously injured are refused outside medical treatment. That can be proven.

Prabhupāda: No, so many other things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who gives them the right to cut the telephone wire? That's criminal. That is against the law of the government. You're cutting government property. That's not our property. Telephone wires, all those things, electric wire.

Prabhupāda: That is purposefully planned.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They get diabetes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?

Prabhupāda: No, no, not the Bengalis. Anyone who cannot physically work. They eat sitting, and it is not digested, and therefore the diabetes. Diabetes is caused by eating more which is not digested. They say it is medically proven, and that's a fact. And tuberculosis is the wasting disease. As much food requires, he'll not get.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that about tuberculosis?

Prabhupāda: As much food he requires, he does not get.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Starving.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you have to show that Englishman-courage. So you have done something which has proved Englishman-courage. And go on doing it. That is your heritage. And two nice fields, Bangladesh and Nepal. Nepal is only Hindu free state, or it is called... Now India is also free. At least...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The only Hindu kingdom.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They have got a sentiment of Hinduism. So with their cooperation, a little foreign exchange, you can establish a stronghold there. It will be a grat service. So how much foreign exchange will be required, minimum, to establish a stronghold there?

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, I don't say that I can give. But you say you can give. You say that "Without God we can do." We don't say. We say the God is the ultimate controller. Therefore it is your duty to give him, not our, my duty. I don't take the all power. I'm not such a fool. Therefore the onus has to be proved by you. What is called? Onus?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The onus is on them.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:So what is their credit if they produce a baby in a test tube? God is already producing millions of babies daily in nature's test tube, the womb of a woman. Kovoor's statement that scientists are objective thinkers and base their thoughts on empirical knowledge only, goes to prove my point that the soul lies beyond the jurisdiction of the limited senses of the scientists, and therefore a completely different process of approach has to be adopted."

Prabhupāda: So Haṁsadūta has become famous now.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: He's saying you are strained by this philosophical discussion you're having.

Prabhupāda: No. It is nonsense that matter gives life. That we want to prove. Matter has no... Matter, I have studied it. Life is superior energy. Apareyam. This matter is useless. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ manaḥ (BG 7.4). They are inferior. Apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakṛtim. Another, yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). This is actually governing the whole universe. They have defied this apareyaṁ me prakṛ..., parām. They have not accepted. The scientists are speculators, most of them. Philosopher means materially thinking.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. And then our sannyāsīs look so nice. There's Akṣayānanda Mahārāja and Bhakti-prema Swami. They were both there, very nicely dressed, with daṇḍas. It's really... The whole thing is complete. They get to stay in a nice guesthouse. Then there will be building of Bhaktivedanta Institute Hall. All of these things are a complete arrangement. I think these men are surprised to see that how such a thing has sprung up, and they have not been aware of it before. And when they see these books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the scientists have written, I think that will floor these men. They will be completely amazed to see it. Normally, if anyone else dared to do such a thing as this, to prove by science that life comes from life, it would be a very immature attempt by some religious person, and it would not have very much weight. But here they are coming face to face with people who are actually scientists, and they will not be able to deny our arguments. I think that your Guru Mahārāja is very pleased with this program, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I have given the ideas. Now you give the shape.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one took him very seriously, especially after Mādhava dāsa smashed his nonsense point. Of course, he did it very nicely, Mādhava dāsa. Because he's a scientist, he did it in a very tasteful way, scientifically proved that what he said was wrong.

Bhavānanda: Prabhupāda? You haven't taken very much liquid today, only 200 cc's of juice, not counting the yāmuna-jala. Would you like us to make you up some juice, pomegranate juice?

Prabhupāda: That juice is good, lime.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There is just one more point on that verse. He says there are some verses that say upaniṣada puruṣaḥ namo vedānta vedyāya kṛṣṇāya.(?) So Śrīla Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa has raised a question that it says Kṛṣṇa is not seen by the Upaniṣads, but then there's some verses that say He is known by the Vedas, He is known by the Upaniṣads. He says it is proved that the Absolute is able to be known by Vedas, veda-gamyatvam kintu... Then he quotes other verse. It says sakalyena avedatvam, He cannot be known completely through Vedas, only through devotional service

Prabhupāda: Yes. When one is purified by Vedic knowledge, then mad-bhaktir labhate param. Then he is allowed entrance in devotional understanding. Bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā. There is a...? Eh? In Bhāgavatam?

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: No loss in taking fruit juice. When you were not taking the medicine a few days back, you were taking fruit juice every day and not passing stool. When you were in Delhi and Prabhupāda was taking fruit juice every day, he was not passing stool. So there's no loss. We can take vegetable juice, fruit juice, vegetable broth. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...reacting adversely. That is proved. Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it seems so.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's two days that we started this medicine.

Prabhupāda: And jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. It is acting adversely. If still I take, then, knowingly...

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Śatadhanya: ...was present there also, so he can confirm that we spoke with him and he...

Prabhupāda: No, "Confirmed... I approached and he has spoken"—these things are going on. These things are paid.(?) Everything is lost. You talked personally with him, and he said that he's very responsible, and he's...

Śatadhanya: He's proved responsible in the past.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śatadhanya: In the past he has always been responsible.

Prabhupāda: What can I do?

Śatadhanya: Sometimes it's not possible also to get a flight. Sometimes it's full.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no, therefore I am not going to.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, these allopathic doctors have been totally a failure for you. There's no question of going back to them in any case.

Prabhupāda: He has already concluded something and he wants to prove it by x-ray and this and that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And strong medicine he prescribed.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Kavirāja has no telephone.

Bhakti-caru: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he has one. He has telephone at home and in his chamber also. But when we rang up, he was not at home.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore we thought it best not to lose any more time but to call Adri-dhāraṇa, because he's proved to be very capable person—he was living with the kavirāja when he was here—and we want Adri-dhāraṇa to bring the kavirāja personally anyway.