So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the best. Anyone, individually or collectively, you take it. You'll enjoy real life. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is real life. And actually, people are accepting. All over the world. Say, four days ago I was in Manila. That was the, my first visit and all young men... In the hotel we held one meeting. The hotel capacity was about eight hundred men. Still, it was overflooded. And they liked this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, chanting, dancing. So nice. So it has been proven that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will be accepted in any part of the world. This is India's culture. Why not distribute? Why the government is not interested? That is my presentation. If you, India wants to be glorified, then she must give something. Not simply begging. "Give me grains, give me money, give me weapons. Give me engineer." Give something. That is my proposal. Then India will be glorified. "Oh, India has got something to give, not to take only, like beggars." I was questioned in Berkeley University by some Indian students, "Swamijī, what this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will benefit? What this saṅkīrtana? We want technology." So I replied, "Yes, you have come to learn here technology, but I have come here to teach you. Not to learn. But to teach. And they are learning." So according to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, every Indian can become a teacher provided he accepts the teachings of their predecessor ācāryas? Otherwise they'll remain beggars. That is my proposal. Thank you very much. (end)
Proposal (Lectures, Other)
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
So this is the process. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, if we are sincere and serious, then Kṛṣṇa becomes kind upon us and gives direction: buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. "I give them buddhi-yogam." Buddhi means intelligence. So here, everyone has got intelligence. At least, he thinks that he is very intelligent. Everyone thinks. Although he's fool number one, he thinks himself as very intelligent. Because intelligence is there. But when the intelligence is used for material fortune, that is unfortunate. When intelligence used for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is fortune. So we can set up our own fortune or misfortune. The fortune means that we must be serious after hearing about Kṛṣṇa. One must be serious. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So if we are intelligent, we should seriously think over this proposal. Why Kṛṣṇa said, "Give up everything and surrender unto Me"? There is sufficient reason. If one has seriously studied Bhagavad-gītā, there is sufficient reason to surrender unto God, unto Kṛṣṇa. Everywhere. That... Those who are karmīs, Kṛṣṇa says unto them, yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam (BG 9.27). Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. This is for the karmīs. And for the jñānīs, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births, the so-called jñānīs, when he surrenders unto Kṛṣṇa, that is success. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. By culture of knowledge, by philosophical speculation, if one comes to this point, conclusion, that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything, then he's jñānavān, real jñānavān. That is real... Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. He must be submissive. That submissive means, "Yes, after cultivating knowledge, my Lord, Kṛṣṇa, I have come to this conclusion, that You are the Supreme Absolute Truth. I bow down my head upon Your lotus..." That is real jñāna. That is jñāna. Otherwise, ajñāna.
Ekatvam anupaśyataḥ. Ekatvam, at the same time, anupaśyataḥ. That means we are all spirit soul. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. That is anupaśyataḥ. And on this basis, when we find ekatvam, oneness, that is the platform of peace, that "We are all servants of Kṛṣṇa." Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised this, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). When we feel that "Eternally I am servant of Kṛṣṇa, you are servant of Kṛṣṇa," that is ekatvam. Not that we become a lump of thing. No. Impersonality cannot be... Personality cannot be changed. Jīva-loke. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7). This individuality is sanātana, eternal. But when we disagree to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is asanātana, not sanātana. That is artificial.
So here in this material world, we have disagreed to serve Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the whole proposal is again agree to serve Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is real philosophy. We disagreed; therefore we came into this material world, and we are fighting with one another. Now again the proposal is, agree to this oneness, ekam. Then there will be peace. Jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchanti. These things are there.
Prabhupāda: Now what is the argument against this? (aside:) Why don't you open this? All, open all fans.
Mādhavānanda: Just the, just...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe open the doors.
Prabhupāda: Open the doors. Open, fully open. Now we say simply by developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness every member in the society, human society, will be happy. This is our proposal. Now discuss on this point, whether actually people will be happy or unhappy. What is the counterargument? It should be understood by threadbare discussion, how Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can make the whole society happy. This is the proposal. Now those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, what argument they will forward against this proposition? Yes.
Acyutānanda: Well, as you say, if everyone became Kṛṣṇa conscious, then how would the world go on?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Acyutānanda: If everybody started chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, then how, how would we eat?
Revatīnandana: Who would run the factories?
Prabhupāda: So that means the world as it is going on, it is a necessity. Do you think like that? This world, as it is going on, fighting one another, killing one another, stealing one's property and... Do you think that this order of things must go on? Just like the..., it is a proposal when everyone becomes honest, how the prison house will go on? It will be stopped. That's a great anxiety. Do you think the prison house, there is necessity that it will go on? That answer was given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu that... Vāsudeva Datta proposed, "My dear Lord, You have come.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So Nityānanda Prabhu is the immediate expansion of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared here at Māyāpur, this very place where you are now sitting, with all these five features: Nityānanda Prabhu, Śrī Advaita Prabhu, and Gadādhara Prabhu, Śrīnivāsa Prabhu. So He Himself, Kṛṣṇa, and Nityānanda Prabhu is immediate expansion of His personal self; Advaita Prabhu is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, Mahāviṣṇu, three; and Gadādhara Prabhu is the expansion of spiritual energy; and Śrīnivāsa Prabhu is the expansion of His marginal potency, marginal energy, jīva-tattya. Jīva-tattva, śakti-tattva, prakāśa-tattva, and avatāra-tattva, and He Himself. This Pañca-tattva. This Pañca-tattva will be explained in this chapter. That is the proposal of the author. Guru-tattva kahiyāchi ebe pāñcera vicāra. Consideration of the five. So although the Absolute Truth is one, He expands in His various features. That has been divided in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's practical exposition of tattva-vicāra, in six: five personal, and the guru is also representative. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **. Guru is also expansion of Hari for the benefit of the conditioned soul. For the benefit of the conditioned soul, He is within everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). So He's trying to teach us from within and He sends His representative for preaching without.
So Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He's preaching about Himself, because without knowing, without understanding the tattva, vetti māṁ tattvataḥ, without understanding the Absolute Truth as He is, there is no question of getting out of the clutches of māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14).
"Never mind a man, whatever he is. He may be a laborer class, he may be a brāhmaṇa, or he may be a sannyāsī, or he may be a householder. It doesn't matter. Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he is spiritual master. Anyone." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, I mean to, highest con..., especially for the Hindu society. They have got so much caste distinction, lower and higher and this and that way. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu broke all these barriers. His simple process was: anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is welcome; he is the highest personality in the world. That was His proposal.
So He did not care that "What people will say that I am staying at a śūdra's place?" No.
- tapana-miśrera ghare bhikṣā-nirvāhaṇa
- sannyāsīra saṅge nāhi māne nimantraṇa
- (CC Adi 7.46)
So He was staying with a śūdra and He was taking His meals at another brāhmaṇa... He was also not sannyāsī, but he was a brāhmaṇa. So in this way He was staying at Benares.
So anyway, this Sanātana Gosvāmī, he is approaching Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu very humbly and tolerantly, putting himself that he is fool number one. Yes. Grāmya-vyavahāre kahaye paṇḍita: "These general people, they do not know what is a paṇḍita, but they call Me paṇḍitajī, but actually I know what kind of paṇḍita I am. I do not know what I am." Grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita satya kari māni. So his first proposal is, ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya: "What is my position? What I am? I do not want to suffer, but in this material world, three kinds of suffering are always there, and they are giving me trouble." This consciousness is not there. People have become so dull-headed that they are always suffering by three kinds of suffering: adhyātmika, adhibhautika and adhidaivika; still, they are thinking they are very happy. This is called māyā. This morning we were discussing. Āvaraṇātmikā-śakti. Māyā has got a covering power so that everyone, even he's a cat and dog, he's thinking that he is very happy. This is māyā. Nobody can be happy in this material world. That is the fact. Why? Kṛṣṇa says. The creator of this world, He says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam: (BG 8.15) "It is the place for suffering. How you can be happy? It is meant for suffering." But people are thinking they are happy or, if they make this plan executed, then they will be happy. You see. Nobody is happy. Big, big politician, they plan so many things. Unfortunately they never become happy, and we have got many examples—we do not wish to discuss—but it is a fact that this place is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). The great authority, Kṛṣṇa, says. And here is a realized, soul, Sanātana Gosvāmī. He said that "Why I am subjected to so many miserable condition?"
So māyā is very strong, that these mistakes continue even one is very advanced so-called spiritually. No. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu touches the main point immediately with His instruction. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy. Where Kṛṣṇa says the last word, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja.. (BG 18.66). He is talking on the position; He is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is asking, demanding, "You rascal, give up everything. Just surrender to Me. Then you'll be happy." This is the last instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the same Kṛṣṇa but acting as devotee of Kṛṣṇa; therefore He is speaking the same thing. Kṛṣṇa said, "You surrender," and Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Every living entity is the servant of Kṛṣṇa." That means he must surrender. Servant's business is to surrender, not to argue with the master or to claim that "I am equal with you." These are all fanatic, mad proposal.
Just like you are hearing from the śāstra, and we are speaking from the śāstra. This is called sat-saṅga. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). By sat-saṅga, by real spiritual association, by talking with them, by mixing with them-satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido—then we can learn about the unlimited potencies of Kṛṣṇa. Mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. Then it becomes very pleasing to the heart and to the ear, by satāṁ-prasaṅgān. Otherwise it is not possible. If you go to a professional reciter, it will enter in this ear and go out this ear, that's all. Because there is no life; it is business. So you cannot do business with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not agreeable to this proposal. He's master. You cannot utilize Him for your service. You must engage yourself to His service. That is wanted. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Then if we be in that attitude, that "Kṛṣṇa is my master; I must serve Kṛṣṇa. I shall not take Kṛṣṇa an instrument to become my servant..." That is not possible, although it is said that catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna: "Four kinds of men," sukṛtina, "whose background is pious, they come to Kṛṣṇa." One who is impious, he cannot come.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
For a second, I cannot be silent. So then our activities should be engaged, dovetailed, in Kṛṣṇa's service. This is real knowledge, that "I, as living entity, I have all these things, activities, desires, loving propensity. Everything is there. But that is being misguided." We do not know where to place all these things. That is avidyā. So this Īśopaniṣad teaches us that we should be very careful. We should not be very much advanced... We may be advanced. That doesn't matter. We don't say that you don't advance in material education. You advance, but, at the same time, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is our propaganda. We don't say that you don't, you do not manufacture motorcar or you do not manufacture these so many machines. We don't say. But we say, "All right, you have manufactured this machine. Employ it in Kṛṣṇa's service." That is our proposal. We don't say stop it. We don't say that you have, don't have any sex life. But we say, "Yes, you have sex life—for Kṛṣṇa. You produce Kṛṣṇa conscious children. Hundred times you have sex life." But don't create cats and dogs. That is our proposal.
So education, education required, but if education is wrongly diverted, it is very, very dangerous. That is the purport of this verse.
Festival Lectures
Dante nidhāya tṛṇakam, and touching his feet. Immediately, touch his feet. Immediately, even if he's enemy, he'll be a friend. Even if he's your enemy, it is so nice process. Take a grass on your mouth and immediately fall on his feet, padayor nipetya, and with folded hands, much flattering. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kaku-śataṁ kṛtvā ca. All flattering words. Ahaṁ bravīmi. So immediately he will agree, "Yes, what you say I'll hear. I'll hear." Immediately, convert to hear you at least. Just see how perfect process is. "Then what is your purpose, sir? Why you are becoming so humble, meek? And now say." "Yes sir, I'll say." What is that? He sādhavaḥ, "You are a great sādhu." Although he may be rascal number one. Still, you call him, he sādhavaḥ. "Yes, I am sādhu, yes. What is your proposal?" "Now kindly forget all nonsense, whatever you have learned. That's all. I am flattering you because I want that you forget everything, all these yogis and this and that and that and meditation. Please kick out all these." "Then what I have to do?" "Caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. Just adhere yourself to the lotus feet of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then you become spiritual master. That's all."
So the warning is there. But still they're smoking. Why? Pramattaḥ. And vikarma. They have given warning that it is not good for health. Warning is there in every cigarette package, packet, but because he has become mad after that bidi and cigarette, he kurute vikarma. Although it is forbidden, he's still taking advantage of it. Just see how Bhāgavata writes frankly: nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Pramattaḥ. These mad persons, persistently committing sinful activities, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. Why? Yad indriya prītaya āpṛṇoti, simply for the satisfaction of sense. Not for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction is that "You give up all this nonsense. Simply surrender unto Me." But instead of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, he has surrendered to bidi and cigarette. Yes. This is going on. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). Ṛṣabhadeva said, "This is My proposal." Na sādhu manye. "My dear friends, you are doing wrong." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ. Ātmanaḥ, the spirit soul, ātmā, is pure, but because you wanted to smoke bidi and cigarette, you have got this body. Otherwise, spirit soul is pure.
And from the history of Mahābhārata it is understood, at that time some of the kṣatriyas fled and took shelter in the European side. And the Indo-European stock is from those kṣatriyas. That is history, inform..., historical information from Mahābhārata.
Then next incarnation is Lord Rāma. So He fought with Rāvaṇa who had ten heads. So ... And the next incarnation is Balarāma. Balarāma is the elder brother of Kṛṣṇa. He is incarnation of Saṅkarṣaṇa, next expansion of Kṛṣṇa. So He was very white in complexion, and He was wearing blue garments, and with His plow He was, sometimes He was angry with Yamunā River, and He tried to dry up the Yamunā River. That description is given here. And Yamunā, out of His fear, she agreed to the proposal of Balarāma. And the next incarnation is Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha, He decried the Vedic principles. Therefore He is calculated as atheist. Anyone who does not agree with the Vedic principles, he is considered as atheist. Just like one who does not believe in the Bible, they are called heathens, similarly, those who do not accept the Vedic principles, they are called atheists. So Lord Buddha although incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, He said that "I do not believe in Vedas." What was the reason? The reason was to save the poor animals. At that time people were sacrificing the poor animals under the plea of Vedic sacrifice. So demonic persons, they want to do something under the protection of authority. Just like a big lawyer takes the protection of the lawbook and he makes the law unlawful. Similarly, the demons are so intelligent that they take advantage of scriptural injunction and do all nonsense.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
And very beautiful wife or husband for sense gratification. These things are wanted for materially ambitious people. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "I don't want all these things." He's teaching, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye. Then what You want? Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi: (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4) "I simply want that I may take My birth anywhere, it doesn't matter, but let Me become Your servant. Let Me become Your devotee." That is the aspiration of pure devotee.
So as soon as we shall require any material things, the Kṛṣṇa will give us opportunity. But that is not very good proposal. In the material life, either your very rich man or demigod, or in the higher planetary system, or as insect or any royal person anywhere, the threefold miseries of material existence there must be. Every intelligent man should be aspiring for Kṛṣṇa only and should be satisfied as Kṛṣṇa likes him to do. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You try to understand. Take to it. You'll be happy. That is our proposal.
Initiation Lectures
If by following the ritualistic principles of any kind of religion, if one has not developed God consciousness or love of God, then it is simply waste of time, laboring. That's all. So gradually people are coming to the stage that God is dead. They have developed so much love for God that they want to see God is dead. That means they have not followed any kinds of religion. This is all useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam. Simply they have wasted. God cannot be dead. It is crazy proposal. How God can be...? If we are praying to God, "O God, give us our daily bread," and the bread is supplied to us, how God is dead? God cannot be dead. So these are crazy proposals. Don't be attached to all these nonsense proposal. God is existing. He is nitya nityānām. Just like we are existing, similarly God is existing. And He is the chief amongst the eternals. We are also eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit.
So these are Vedic injunctions. God is there, I am here, God is eternal, I am eternal, He is sac-cid-vigrahaḥ, I am also, at the present moment, my body is material. But when I am liberated I also become sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So these things gradually you'll learn from Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā. Now this Hare Kṛṣṇa, this chanting process is cleansing your heart. As you advance in cleansing your heart, so God becomes revealed unto You. God is sitting with you. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is sitting in everyone's heart. Simply we can see Him as soon as the heart is clean. Śṛṇvatām... And God will help you.
Wedding Ceremonies
So apart from that argumental point of view, our presentation is that this conjugal love between man and woman is not unnatural. It is quite natural because it is in the Absolute Truth, as we find from Vedic description, that the Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead, is engaged in conjugal loving affairs, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. But the same Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa love matter has permeated through matter. Therefore it is perverted reflection. Here in this material world, the so-called love is not actual love. It is lust. Here the male and female are attracted not by love but by lust. So in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society, because we are trying to approach the Absolute Truth, the lust propensity has to be converted into pure love. That is the proposal. So in India still, amongst the strict followers of Vedic principles, this lust affair is adjusted spiritually. What is that? The boys and girls, they are not allowed free mixing before marriage. Especially... Both the boys... Here, one of our students, he was in India, and he tried to talk with a young girl on the street, and he (she) was insulted. He was surprised. Because the practice is there that no young boy or young girl can talk with... Of course, now it is different. Even up to our young time we have seen that without being married, no girl, no boy, could mix together. So this lust affair, this attraction, was little bit controlled. The father, the parents of the girl, and the parents of the boy would select. They had no personal selection. And that selection was made very scientifically, taking the horoscope of the girl, taking the horoscope of the boy, and calculating, "How this boy and girl will amalgamate? How their lives will be happy?" So many things, they were considered. And when everything was settled, then the marriage would take place. That is the system of old Indian, Vedic principle. And so far free love is concerned, as we understand, that was allowed only very in high circles, princely order. Because the girls were educated and grown up and she was given to select her husband, but not directly. We find in so many historical evidences from the Vedic literature that the girl used to express her desire that "I want to marry with that boy," and the father... This was amongst the kṣatriyas, the princely order, not with others. And the father would give a challenge, a
General Lectures
Lord Kṛṣṇa instructed Bhagavad-gītā in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra five thousand years ago. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means the last instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā we find everything complete so far God consciousness is required. The first and foremost qualification to understand the science of God or to become Kṛṣṇa conscious is to understand yourself. The first thing is what you are or what I am. In the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra this perplexed question was there before Arjuna. Arjuna was to fight with his brothers and relatives on the other side to decide who shall be the emperor of the region. So in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, when he actually came in front of his relatives, he decided that "It is no good fighting with my relatives and taking the kingdom. Better I shall beg. I don't want this kingdom." That is a very nice proposal, nonviolence, not to fight. But on this point the Bhagavad-gītā, or the science of God, developed from the lips of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa.
Kṛṣṇa said that "Why you are deviating from your duty? You are kṣatriya. Your business is to fight." Now this term kṣatriya also to be understood. Kṣatriya means one who protects others from being hurt by others. This material world is so made that everyone is prepared to attack another person. And one who protects that person who is attacked, he is called kṣatriya. And the kṣatriyas were in charge of administration. That means the person who can protect the citizen from being hurt or from suffering, they are called kṣatriyas. So just like it is the duty of the police department or law order department to protect the citizens, and sometimes violence is required, similarly, the kṣatriyas also were meant for that purpose, and they were entrusted with the administration of the government.
So anyone can take it by heart, these three words, and chant it. It is universal. And if you think that "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the name of Hindu god," if you have got any objection, then you may not chant Kṛṣṇa, but you must have a name for God. Just like somebody, the Muhammadans, call Allah, the Jews call Jehovah, or somebody calls something. That doesn't matter. If you think that "Why shall I chant the Indian name Kṛṣṇa, Sanskrit name Kṛṣṇa?" so Lord Caitanya says that there are millions and billions of names of God. If you think that this Kṛṣṇa name is not very suitable, you can accept any name. That doesn't matter. Our proposition is you chant God's name. That is our proposal. Therefore it is universal. If you like, you can chant Jehovah or you can chant Allah, but we request you that you chant God's name. Is it very difficult? It is not at all difficult. Lord Caitanya said that there are innumerable names of God according to different languages, different countries, different societies. And each and every one of them has the potency of God Himself. If there is any God, so God is Absolute; therefore there is no difference between His name and He Himself. Just like in the material world, in the world of duality there is difference between the name "water" and the substance water. The name water is different from the substance water. If you are thirsty, if you simply chant, "Water, water, water, water," your thirstiness will not be quenched. You require the substance water. That is material, but spiritually, the name Kṛṣṇa or the name Allah or the name Jehovah is as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
In the beginning the brahmacārī training is given because to know that this body, woman body, is actually not attractive. What is this attractive? This is made of flesh and blood. Similarly for woman, if I analyze the man's body, or woman's, what is there? Flesh and blood. But that flesh and blood is very attractive? That story, perhaps I have enunciated, that beauty was kept in a pot? Do you remember? Huh? I may repeat that story again, that one girl was very beautiful, and one boy was after him (her). But in India the boys and girls are not allowed to mix freely unless they are husband and wife. So this girl was married, but she was not very rich. But that boy was very rich and he was after her. He was always proposing her. And she became perplexed, that "He is rich man. If I don't agree, then he may do some harm to my husband, to me." So she made a plan that "All right. I agree to your proposal. You come to my house in such and such night. I'll be engaged with you." Oh, he was very... In the meantime, (s)he took some purgative pill, strong. So for six, seven days, she simply purged out all the beauty in vomiting and in passing stool. So those vomits and stools were kept in two pots. And naturally, if you pass stool for one day, your feature becomes immediately ugly. That is a fact. So she passed stool and vomiting seven days. Naturally, she became very ugly. So when the boy came, she was sitting there on the door. The boy was asking, "Where is such and such girl?" She said, "Yes, I am. I am here." "No, you are not her. Oh, she is so beautiful, and you are so ugly." "No, I am the same girl." "Why you have become so ugly?" "Because I have extracted my beauty.' "Where is that?" "Just see in these two pots." (laughter) "So if you like, you can enjoy this beauty." (laughter)
The breathing exercise of the yoga system which is generally practiced is just the beginning of the system. Meditation on the Supersoul is just a step forward. Achievement of wonderful material success is also only a step forward. But to attain direct contact with the Supersoul and to take dictation from Him is the highest perfectional stage.
"The breathing exercise and meditation practices of yoga are very difficult in this age. It was difficult even five thousand years ago, or else Arjuna would not have rejected the proposal of Kṛṣṇa. This age of Kali is called the fallen age. At the present moment people in general are short-living, are very slow in understanding self-realization or spiritual life. They are most unfortunate, and as such, if somebody is a little bit interested in self-realization, he is misguided by so many frauds. The only actual way to realization of the perfect stage of yoga is to follow the principles of the Bhagavad-gītā as they were practiced by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This is the simplest and highest perfection of yoga practice. Lord Caitanya practically demonstrated Kṛṣṇa consciousness yoga simply by chanting the holy names of Kṛṣṇa as they were mentioned in the Vedānta, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and many important Purāṇas. The largest number of Indians follow this yoga practice, and in the USA also it is gradually growing in many cities. It is very easy and practical for this age, especially for those who are serious about success in yoga. No other process can be successful in this age. The meditation process in right earnest was possible in the golden age of Satya-yuga, because the people at that time lived for a hundred thousand years on the average. If you want success in practical yoga, take to the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, and feel for yourself how you are making progress. One should know for himself how much he is progressing in yoga practice.
"My dear king, your question is very superexcellent. Superexcellent." (reads Sanskrit commentary) "You have inquired whether I shall now simply absorb my mind simply for hearing and chanting of Kṛṣṇa." That was his question. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī affirms that "This is a very nice inquiry, and your selection is also very nice." Śrotavyādiṣu yaḥ paraḥ. We have got to hear so many things. As soon as we get out of this Kṛṣṇa temple, many, many friends will ask me so many things, and I'll talk with him so many things about politics, economics, social affairs, this country's position, this, that. Because without chanting and hearing, we cannot live for a moment. Either we shall talk nonsense or we shall talk about business or we talk of sex or talk some this or that, talking and chanting. You talk I hear, and I talk, you hear. That is the business going on everywhere. Now here Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that "You wanted to hear about Kṛṣṇa. That is your superexcellent proposal." Varīyān eṣa te praśnaḥ kṛto loka-hitaṁ nṛpa (SB 2.1.1). "And because you have inquired and I'll have to say something about Kṛṣṇa, so it is the most beautiful and superexcellent welfare activities for the all people of the world." Loka-hitam. And ātmavit-sammataḥ. And this sort of question and answer is confirmed by persons who are self-realized, ātmavit. Ātmavit. Ātmā means soul, or self, and vit means one who knows. So "Your, this proposal, this inquiry, is approved by persons who are self-realized." Ātmavit-sammataḥ puṁsāṁ śrotavyādiṣu yaḥ paraḥ. Paraḥ means transcendental. There are many things, many subject matter for hearing, but this subject matter, Kṛṣṇa, is transcendental.
Similarly, there are different yoga processes. If you stick to some process you go little further. Then you take another—you go little further. But if you take the bhakti-yoga process, it is a lift immediately. Because, as I quoted the verse from Bhagavad-gītā, yoginām api sarveṣām (BG 6.47). Sarveṣām means all. There are different kinds of yogis. So "Out of different kinds of many yogis," mad-gatenāntarātmanā, "one who is thinking of Me always within his heart," mad-gatenāntarāt..., śraddhāvān bhajate mām, "and is engaged in My service with faith and devotion," sa me yuktatamo, "oḥ, he is the first-class yogi." He is the first-class yogi. Because yoga means to contact the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the ultimate goal. So if by some process you can at once contact the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is first class. That is made easy in this age. Simply by chanting Kṛṣṇa, you immediately contact. Immediately. So why not take this process? Why not try? Just give a try and reach immediately. That is our proposal. We request everyone, "Try this process." Yes?
That is going on. So according to our Vedic principle, there is no question of manufacturing a new type of religion. No. So Lord Caitanya introduced this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, not that He manufactured something. No.
It is stated in the Agni Purāṇa—perhaps you have heard. There are eighteen purāṇas. Out of that, one Purāṇa is called Agni Purāṇa, and another Purāṇa is called Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa. So in these two purāṇas, and many other purāṇas also, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is there, that in this age... "In this age" means this age of Kali, where everything is based on disagreement and dissension. Nobody will agree with others' proposal. Everyone is thinking that "I am independent. I can think in my own way. I can have my own process of self-realization." So many. Therefore it is recommended in this age that for self-realization these mantras, sixteen mantra, should be chanted... Faithfully. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as follows: kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ (SB 12.3.52). In the Golden Age, when everyone was pious, at that time, meditation was recommendation. Meditation. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum: meditation on Viṣṇu. Tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ. In the next age, the recommendation was to perform great sacrifices. And the next age was recommended for temple worship, or church worship, or mosque worship. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ, dvāpare paricaryāyām. Dvapar... Next age, just the age about five thousand years ago, the age was called Dvāpara-yuga. At that time temple worship was very gorgeous and very successful. Now, in this age, Kali-yuga, which has begun about five thousand years past, in this age, it is recommended, kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. You can realize yourself simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. And if you take to this simple process, result will be that ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The rubbish thing which has gathered in your heart will be cleansed. And what is that rubbish thing? That rubbish thing is also described, that yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13).
Similarly, we extend our bodily concept of life. There is no question of transcendental platform.
So we have to wind up from the material concept of life to the spiritual concept, or spiritual platform. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). When... One who is on the spiritual platform, he has no more hankering, no more lamentation. Why he should be hankering? He knows that "I don't want anything material. Why shall I be hankering? Whatever is, I mean, barely required, I must be satisfied with that thing." So that is a, a very, not very nice proposal to the materially advanced world at this present moment. People will not accept it. Therefore this process, transcendental... Yukta-vairāgya. It is called yukta-vairāgya. You just remain in your place. This is the facility of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You haven't got to change your place. You remain. You are student; you remain a student. You are businessman; you remain businessman. You are woman, man, or anyone, any, black, white, anyone—you remain in your position. Simply you try to hear. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. You just remain in your position. You simply hear. Kindly give your aural reception to this transcendental sound. Very simple process. No charges. We are not charging anything, that "You give us so many dollars, then I shall give you this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa." It is publicly distributed. You simply catch up and try it. You'll... Very quickly you'll come to the transcendental platform, and when you hear the chanting, that is transcendental meditation. This process is recommended in all scriptures of Vedic literature, and it is followed by Lord Caitanya and His disciplic succession for the last five hundred years, and people are achieving good result. Not only in India, here also, the young boys and girls who have joined this movement... You try to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how transcendental meditation is possible. We are not sentimentalists. We have got many books.
That is the highest perfection of life. You are trying to go to the moon planet, you are trying to go to the sun planet or you can go any other planet. There are millions of planets. And the highest planet is called Brahmaloka. And modern scientists say that to reach to the highest planet in this universe it will take forty thousands of years. So even if you go there, Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā says, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Anywhere you go, in any planet you go, these four conditions of material existence—birth, death, old age and disease—they are existing everywhere. Yaṁ prāpya na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama: but if one goes to that planet, Kṛṣṇa planet, then he hasn't got to come back again. He gets eternal life, blissful life, simply joyful life.
So our proposal is that in this life you have got this opportunity, the informations are there, the scientific methods are there—take advantage. Fully utilize your, this valuable life by changing simply your ordinary consciousness to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the greatest boon offered to the human society by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If you take advantage of it, then sarve sukhino bhavantu—then you'll become happy. It is not a mental concoction; it is very authorized. It is accepted by great stalwart scholars and ācāryas like Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, those who practically guided the whole destiny of Indian civilization—even Lord Buddha, he was Indian—but all of them accepted these authorized scriptural... Don't try to manufacture. There are so many things in store, in Vedic knowledge, and they're all summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā. Try to understand. It is not very expensive or very difficult, but you have to understand it with full brain, then your life will be successful.
We are becoming educated, we are advanced in science. But Bhāgavata says, "No, you are not advancing, you are simply being defeated, because you do not know how to get happiness. You are not trying for real happiness."
So, this ignorance is dissipated by the knowledge of the Vedas. Lord Caitanya therefore, has said, that Kṛṣṇa he will say, that because we are so foolish we have forgotten how to become happy, therefore Kṛṣṇa has made so many Vedic literatures. Ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa korila. So you should take advantage of these Vedas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says—we have already talked now—He says, sādhu-śāstra-kṛpāya yadi kṛṣṇonmukha haya. This is Bengali—I think you will understand—I will explain in English also. So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's proposal is: by the mercy of sādhu, holy man, or saintly person, or devotee... Who is a sādhu? We know this term sādhu. Sādhu means saintly person. But actually there are different kinds of sādhus. Generally people accept a sādhu when he is dressed with the saffron garment, but there are different types of sādhus, mahātmā. Some of them may be jñānīs who wants to merge into the Brahman effulgence. And another sādhu may be yogis, those who are trying to—the same ambition—to merge into the supreme by finding out in the heart. Yoginaḥ, paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. Dhyānāvasthita-manasā, by meditation, meditative mind, dhyānāvasthita-manasā dhiyāṁ paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. Yoginaḥ, they are trying to see the Supreme Personality of Godhead by meditative mind. That is yogi, and he is also sādhu. And bhaktas. Just like we have taken the path of devotional service to serve Kṛṣṇa at any cost. We don't think anything greater than the service of the Lord. That is the bhakta's position. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167), that is bhakti.
So prāpañcika. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī says the process is anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ. You... We should be unattached to the material necessities of life. It is not that we shall neglect this body. Because a body is vehicle for understanding. So we cannot neglect it. Just like you take care of your car. You ride on your car. For business you go from one place to another. So you have to keep it fit so that it can move very nicely, it can carry out your order. Similarly, there is no necessity of neglecting this body. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yuktāhāra vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi. We do not say that "You don't eat," but we say that "You eat Kṛṣṇa prasāda, bhagavat-prasāda." You satisfy your tongue. You do not starve, but you satisfy your tongue by the foodstuff which is offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is our proposal. We do not say that "You don't sleep," but we say, "Yes, you sleep. But sleep as much as possible so that to keep your body fit." We do not say that "You don't have sex life." But you have, have it. Just like in this association you'll find my disciples. Out of them, there are many gṛhasthas. So there is no check that the woman and man should not mix. No. But they should mix together for producing Kṛṣṇa conscious children. You have seen the sample of one Kṛṣṇa conscious child. She's always dancing and she's always jolly. She's always jolly, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
So the educational system should take very seriously if at all they want to make their country nice, not varṇa-saṅkaraḥ. Strīṣu duṣṭāsu varṇa-saṅkaraḥ bhaviṣyati. This Vedic culture is so scientifically made. Just like according to Vedic culture, the women are instructed or trained up to become very chaste, very chaste. Only one husband. Why? That is explained: strīṣu duṣṭāsu varṇa-saṅkaraḥ bhaviṣyati. If women do not remain chaste, then unwanted population will come out. That is called varṇa-saṅkaraḥ. Varṇa-saṅkaraḥ means unwanted population. Actually all over the world this is happening, and therefore, the problems of the world becoming very serious and grave. So these are all scientific proposals. The educational system must be reformed. Not that godless, no education, secular government, no education of God in the schools and colleges. This is not a very good proposal. Here we get authoritative statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He is one of the mahājana. Our process is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We have to follow the footsteps of great personalities. That is our method. We don't manufacture our own way of living. We simply follow the great personalities. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. You cannot come to the right conclusion simply by argument. You may be very good arguer; another comes better arguer than you. So simply by argument, you cannot come to the conclusion. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā.
This is śraddha. This is actually śraddha, faith, not faltering, "I do not know whether Kṛṣṇa will be able to save me. Why shall I surrender to Him? Let me surrender to so many demigods." Kṛṣṇa says those who are thinking like that, they are hrta-jnanah. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23).
So our request is that the guardians who are present here in this meeting, they should organize a special school to give lesson to their students, to their boys, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, bhāgavata-dharma. There is vast knowledge behind this. They will be enlightened. Their life will be successful. So in this city of Delhi, it is a great city and very important city. There are very important men here. They should kindly consider this proposal that there must be a very organized school to understand this bhāgavata-dharma, just to teach their boys, and their life will be successful. It is the duty of the father and mother to see that "My son, this is the last attempt of coming into this material world." Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. It is the duty of the father and the mother to stop the repetition of birth and death of his son. The mother should consider that "My son came to my womb, and he has suffered so much while he was remaining within the womb. Now I shall teach my son in such a way that no more he is going in the womb of a material mother." That is the duty of father, that is the duty of mother, that is the duty of friend, that is the duty of guru. Gurur na sa syāt sva-jano na sa syāt pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. So save your children from the danger of repetition of birth and death, that is the real discharge of father and mother's duty.
The brahma-jyotir, yasya prabhā, is the bodily effulgence of God, Kṛṣṇa, Govinda. So on that effulgence, jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi, there are innumerable universes. It is not very difficult to understand. Just like you see, in the sunshine innumerable planets are floating. So what is the difficulty to understand that there is a shining effulgence from the body of God, Kṛṣṇa, and in that shining effulgence, innumerable universes are floating? What is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. It is most scientific proposal.
So these are the potencies of God. Not that I can show some magic and immediately I become God. Just see the magic, real magic of God. Don't accept cheap God. God must show godly magic. Just like we are showing little magic, floating some airplane or sputnik or jet in the sky. We are taking so much credit, so much credit that scientists are declaring, "There is no God. I am God, because I have made this airplane." And what is your airplane in comparison to these planets? So intelligent person, they will give more credit to God than to these scientists or philosophers. Because he can see the potencies, how much potency is there. So He has many potencies. In the Vedic literature we can understand, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). In the Vedas, Upaniṣad: na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. God has nothing to do personally. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Na tat-samas cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. Nobody is found equal to him or greater than Him. Nobody. That is God. If somebody is competitor, one God competitor, another God competitor... Just like nowadays it has become a fashion to become God, and there are
Just like if one wants to become a mechanical man, he enters into a factory and associates with the worker, mechanics, and gradually he also becomes a mechanic, a technologist. Similarly, we are opening these centers just to give opportunity to everyone to learn how to go home, how to go home, back..., how to go home, back to Godhead. That is our mission. And it is very scientific and authorized, Vedic. We are receiving this knowledge direct from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is Bhagavad-gītā. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without nonsensically comments. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We are placing the same proposal, that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. We are not changing it. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Become My devotee. Always think of Me. Worship Me. Offer your obeisances unto Me." We are teaching all people that "You think of Kṛṣṇa always—Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare." By chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you will always think of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto (BG 18.65). So our method is very simple. We don't manufacture any new method. Why new method? The old method is very perfect, authorized, accepted by great ācāryas. And they are, actually, are benefited. So why we shall manufacture? What is my brain? I am a teeny. We haven't got to manufacture, neither we can manufacture anything perfect, because I am imperfect. We can simply catch up the perfect things. Then we become perfect. That is our process. So Kṛṣṇa, the supreme perfect, His teachings are there in the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We are taking, accepting that. And we are preaching the same philosophy throughout the world, and they are accepting it, and I wish all of you who are present here will kindly accept this philosophy and make your life successful.
In that stage one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. First of all one has to come to the goodness quality platform. Then he has to transcend that quality of (indistinct), and that position means no more attacked by the other two lower qualities, namely passion and ignorance. So, sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vāsudeva sarve, that stage is called vāsudeva. Vāsudeva means that Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, appears. That's why Kṛṣṇa's father's name was Vasudeva.
So he was very... Iti sampraśna saṁhṛṣṭo viprāṇāṁ raumaharṣaṇam, Sūta Gosvāmī, he's called Romaharṣaṇa. His father's name was Roma; therefore he's called Romaharṣaṇa. Pratipūjya, when they inquired... Just like we say, "Thank you very much." So pratipūjya, he also offered his respectful obeisances, put very nice proposal, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa question (indistinct). It is very nice. Pratipūjya vacas teṣāṁ pravaktum upacakrame, began to speak, began to answer the question of the sages that "Unto whom the charge of religious principles have been given after the departure of Kṛṣṇa from this planet?" So he's speaking again, nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya (SB 1.2.4)—these are all formalities—"Before speaking anything one should remember the mercy of Nārāyaṇa." Nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya naraṁ caiva narottamam, devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsam. Vyāsadeva is the guru of Vedic knowledge. Therefore Vyāsadeva or his representative, they are... Therefore, according to our system, when you observe the birthday anniversary of spiritual master it is called Vyāsa-pūjā. Actually the worship is going to Vyāsadeva, and his representative is accepting the pūjā. The honor offered to the spiritual master is transferred to Vyāsadeva because Vyāsadeva is the original guru. Therefore it is stated, devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsam. Sarasvatī-devi, knowledge, or the goddess of education, devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsam tato jayam udīrayet. After offering respects to Nārāyaṇa, then Vyāsadeva, Sarasvatī-devi.
The advantage of Kṛṣṇa dāsa is that he has got only one desire. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167)—to serve Kṛṣṇa purely. That's all. Kṛṣṇa is not impersonal. Kṛṣṇa is person, and whatever He orders, whatever He says, if you carry out faithfully, then our original constitutional position is regained. It can be done very quickly. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). And if you do that immediately, then you revive your original position immediately, within a second. Hoiya māyāra dāsa kori nānā abhilās. We are making plans in so many ways to be happy. But if we accept this one plan, that immediately surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then our life is successful. And if we do not accept this proposal of Kṛṣṇa, and if we make our own plans to be happy, it will be never be possible. Hoiya māyāra dāsa kori nānā abhilāṣ. Anādi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gelā, ataeva māyāra tare goliyā badila. We are not independent. If we do not agree to serve Kṛṣṇa, then we have to serve māyā. Our position as servant is never changed. We remain servant. So if we don't agree to accept Kṛṣṇa's proposal sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), then we have to take shelter of māyā and you have to perpetually serve. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19).
So Hiraṇyakaśipu's wife, she was pregnant, she was captured by Indra, the King of heaven, and she was being dragged to take her in the house of Indra. In the way, Nārada Muni met them; he chastised Indra. Nārada Muni was devarṣi, ṛṣi amongst the demigods. So he said, "Why you are giving trouble to this woman? This is not good." So the demons replied, demigods replied that "This woman is pregnant, and there is Hiraṇyakaśipu's son. So we want to kill that son also, because he is demon. So we are taking this woman to our place just to wait for the time of her delivering the child." At that time Nārada Muni said, "No, no. This child is not a demon child. This child who is within the womb of this woman, he is a great devotee, so don't try to kill him. Neither you can kill him, that is not possible." So they are demigods, they accepted Nārada Muni's proposal. So they offered respect to the woman, that "Here is, within the womb of this woman, a great devotee." So they circumambulated and offered respect to the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu and they went away. So Nārada Muni took the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu to his āśrama: "My dear girl, my dear daughter, you please come with me, remain with me till your husband comes back." So she agreed, and woman's natural propensity is to serve, so she was very nicely serving Nārada Muni, and Nārada Muni became very much pleased and he instructed about transcendental knowledge. Although to the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu, but still the Hiraṇyakaśipu's son Prahlāda Mahārāja was within the womb, he also heard the instruction and he learnt everything. Later on he will explain that "My mother, on account of being woman, she has forgotten the instruction of Nārada, but I heard it even from within the womb; I remember it."
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: It is in Bhāgavata. This question was raised by Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. So sometimes that is special favor. By force the whole plan is like that, but everyone wants to delay. By special favor he draws by force, "Come on. This time." Because that is explained in Caitanya-caritāmṛta that a rascal, he wants Kṛṣṇa, or he wants God, but at the same time he wants to enjoy this material world, because to want God means finish with material world. But sometimes he is both ways. When Kṛṣṇa sees the other way is hampering, He breaks his profit by force, so that in helpless condition. Everything is explained in the Bhāgavata. "I take away his all money. He may try to get money—again I take. So in this way, when he becomes hopeless and there is no money, then he surrenders to Me." And as soon as he has no money, his so-called relatives, friends, wife, children, they neglect, "Oh, what is this man? He is useless." So he is bereft of money, he is bereft of friends, bereft of any love from wife and children, then hopelessly he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. So the plan is that: all these rascal living entities, those who are trying to be happy in this material world, nature's plan is to give him trouble—every attempt shall be frustrated, every attempt shall fail—so that he may come, after many, many births. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyante (BG 7.19). So He has pointed out that there is a plan, and this is the plan: to bring you back to home, back to Godhead. It is not partial, that somebody may remain here and somebody may go to Godhead. No. The whole plan is that everyone must come back. But he is obstinate, he is obstinate. Just like a bad boy, father says, "Come on," he's not. He's crying, "No, I'll not go." But the father's only business is to drag him. Therefore the final, after speaking all the proposals in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says finally, "I am giving you final, very confidential instructions," sarva guhyatamam. "You give up all this rascaldom, arguing with Me. Just surrender unto Me." Arjuna was arguing. "Just surrender unto Me. That is your business. If you think you will be sinful by killing your... I will give you protection." Therefore, before citing this verse He says, "I am speaking to you most confidentially." That means unless one is very sincere to God, he does not heed the final confidential instruction. "All right, you go on with your own work."
Śyāmasundara: This is just what he is saying, that whenever you try to speculate about the Absolute you will run into contradictions.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So contradiction mean imperfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge means who sticks to his principles. That is perfect knowledge. One who does not stick to his original proposal, his knowledge is imperfect.
Śyāmasundara: He says that by trying to apply their reason to the transcendental, that they naturally will run into trouble, that there will be contradictions in their thought. By trying to apply these empirical categories to the transcendental, naturally there will be these contradictions. They will not be able to discover the real nature of things because there is always some contradiction by using the reason.
Prabhupāda: Without fixed up conclusion, there is contradiction. Our fixed-up conclusion is that Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes. How, one after another, the categories are developed, that is in the Vedic literature. But it is summarized that Kṛṣṇa desired or He put His glance over the material nature and the material nature became impregnated, and then He delivered so many things. Matter and spirit have combined together, and the whole cosmic manifestation has come into being.
Śyāmasundara: To go back to this idea of cause and effect, Kant says that just as time and space are a priori concepts or mental creations—in other words, before we have any sense experience, we still have an idea of time and space—just as this is so, so also cause and effect is a priori category of human understanding.
Prabhupāda: Then he has to accept some authority. Where is freedom?
Hayagrīva: He believed that the individual can intuit truths within, but could be helped from without by scripture.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he should not become independent, but he advocates in the beginning that everyone should be independent. So that is not right proposal. One should be dependent on authority, and that authority should be recognized or well established. Then knowledge is possible.
Hayagrīva: He writes, "Absolutely no human reason can hope to understand the production of even a blade of grass by mere mechanical causes."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore he has to know everything from the person or authority who knows that thing. That means this is perfect way of understanding, to take knowledge from the authority who is actually cognizant and knows things as they are.
Hayagrīva: He believes that behind nature or mechanical laws, he says that crude matter, or prakṛti, should have originally formed itself according to mechanical laws or automatically; that life should have sprung from the nature of what is lifeless. That matter should have been able to dispose itself into the form of a self-maintaining purpose is contradictory to reason. Simply by using our reason we can intuit the creator behind the creation.
Prabhupāda: No. Unless there is a brain... Matter has no brain. Matter cannot combine together without a brain behind. That brain is the Supreme Lord, God. That is quite reasonable. And if somebody thinks matter automatically combines together and becomes the sun, becomes the moon, so bright, without any brain behind it—that is ludicrous.
Prabhupāda: What is that synthesis?
Śyāmasundara: The synthesis would be perhaps that man's body is mortal and he's immortal.
Prabhupāda: Perhaps. There is no certainty.
Śyāmasundara: Man's body is mortal and he's immortal.
Prabhupāda: What is this conclusion?
Śyāmasundara: I'm only using it as an example. You said that... You gave a proposal that man is immortal, that John is a man, therefore John is immortal. That's Aristotelian logic, Aristotle's logic.
Prabhupāda: That means his business is to defeat Aristotle's philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that that kind of reasoning is static, that it...
Prabhupāda: That means he... All right, there are two processes. One is inductive and one is deductive. This is deductive process.
Śyāmasundara: It's a syllogism.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: It deals with the "isness" of something.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And there is another process, inductive. Now let us see whether man is mortal or immortal. So go and study. So there are two processes. We say in our Sanskrit language, avaroha panthā, āroha panthā, knowledge coming from up, and knowledge for trying to go up. Ascending process and descending process. So we say that descending process is perfect.
this: there is a thesis of being, and an antithesis of nothing. So that, you said man is immortal, that is...
Prabhupāda: Being.
Śyāmasundara: That is being. So the antithesis of that is that man is mortal, or nothing; so how to reconcile those two is...
Prabhupāda: The reconcile is the body is nothing and the spirit is something. This is synthesis. This is our proposal. The body is nothing, false, but I am real. But those who have no knowledge, they are taking one side. But we are taking two sides: this body is there, this is false, but it is temporary. Although I say I'm not this body, if somebody knocks me I feel pain. So this is temporary. Mātrā sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). Due to this body, I am feeling pains and pleasures. So the Buddha philosophy is you make this body nil, then there is no pains and pleasures. But that is imperfect. Because I am there, I will accept another body. So that, death does not mean liberation. Death does not mean liberation. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. You have to accept another body. Liberation means when you are no more in this material world, you go back to spiritual world, that is liberation.
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that this constant struggle between being and non-being is what makes the world go round.
Prabhupāda: That is also our proposition. That the spirit: yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Therefore we are talking of two energies, the superior energy and the inferior energy.
Śyāmasundara: What is the synthesis?
Prabhupāda: Just like there was Pan American, they were selling tickets for going to Candraloka. Reservation.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Prabhupāda, is it possible that man could ever make even a one-celled living being?
Prabhupāda: Even if he makes, what is credit there? Cells are already there. What is the question of making?
Śyāmasundara: All they're doing is creating the conditions for the jīva to enter, actually. Isn't it?
Prabhupāda: Whatever their proposal, these things are already there. So even they can create something, xerox copy, what is the credit?
Śyāmasundara: But then they'll have control over it. That's their...
Prabhupāda: No, no control, because you are beginning from something on which you have no control. So where is your control?
Śyāmasundara: "From now on I am the master. I can create more Einsteins. I can create many Einsteins."
Prabhupāda: But first of all keep Einstein living. Why he is dying?
Śyāmasundara: That's on their program too.
Prabhupāda: That's on their program—that is is another foolish thing.
Śyāmasundara: Postponement of death by at least fifty years...
Prabhupāda: So what is the profit? After fifty years he has to die. Stop, stop death, then that is credit.
Śyāmasundara: They say they will be able to take out someone like Einstein's brain when his body dies and keep it alive, a disembodied brain, and use it like a computer.
Prabhupāda: Lump of matter, iron, that's all. But that they do not know. They are so foolish and rascal. Then they're trying to find out... This is same childishness, that "I'm trying to find out the singer within the box, within the box." It is like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually the proposals that they made here (indistinct) very speculative type. It's just a projection that can be made by their own speculation.
Prabhupāda: That's all. It is simply mental speculation.
Śyāmasundara: They haven't even come near to these things yet.
Prabhupāda: They'll never come.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mostly scientists are digging up, trying to find out something when they get some very basic preliminary ideas, they speculate so much (indistinct) this, so on. In such and such time I'll be able to make such and such things. Every scientist does like that. Ultimately it is all, it is always...
Prabhupāda: Failure.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Something on the way, something comes up.
Prabhupāda: Then there, it has changed. It has changed. The circumstances have changed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct) very, very delicate, the substances that they are handling, the cells of the the microorganisms. They are also subjected to different changes, without knowing anything. So, but they're taking that things are thus perfect, (indistinct) based on their perfect thinking, what they have learned is infallible. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Therefore our śāstra says these classes of men, no better than cows and asses. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Go means cows and asses. We take them like go-kharaḥ, cows and asses. They may speculate, but we take them, "You are no better than asses and cows."
Śyāmasundara: His idea of truth is that truth means experience.
Prabhupāda: That is our proposal. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). Bhakti means one who advances in bhakti, he becomes..., he has no more any taste for material enjoyment. The more one increases in bhakti cult, he decreases his tendency for material enjoyment. That is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra. Unless one becomes detestful for material things, it is to be understood that he is not making progress. This is practical. The example is given just like a hungry man: when he eats, he feels, as he goes on eating, proportionately he feels satisfaction and strength of (indistinct). Similarly, one who is advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will feel spiritually strong and no taste for material enjoyment. This is practical.
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that truth is created in the same manner as health and wealth are created.
Prabhupāda: Truth is not created. Health can be created, but truth is existing always. It is not created.
Śyāmasundara: He sees that truth is developing in the same way as...
Prabhupāda: Truth is not developing, but you are gradually progressing towards truth. Truth is not developing. Just like the sun is not developing, but as the clouds disappear, you are developing your sight to see the sun. That's all. The sun is not developing. The sun is there in its position.
Śyāmasundara: His idea ultimately is that that point should be God, that energy is used towards reaching God, through Christ. And he says the in-between stage...
Prabhupāda: Then he is right. If the ultimate goal is God and God should be known through Jesus Christ, that is a good proposal.
Śyāmasundara: And he says the in-between stage, this stage is (indistinct), in-between stage is...
Prabhupāda: Why if you know that through Jesus Christ, God can be reached...
Śyāmasundara: That is a higher stage he talks about. He is talking about three levels of existence. In the lower stage, there are... Anyway. The second stage is that they fix one point, no matter whether that point is the highest or not, at least there is a point fixed, and they'll act towards that point, like the piety...
Prabhupāda: That means the other two stages simply spoiling time.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. They advance slowly toward that stage of God realization.
Prabhupāda: So why not take immediately, directly?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. That is what he is recommending.
Prabhupāda: So that is our process. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Vedas, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If actually you want to know the highest goal of your life, he must approach guru. That is the (indistinct). In the Bhagavad-gītā, also it is said, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You try to understand the highest truth by surrendering, praṇipātena, by serving, by giving service; tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā, by inquiring. In Bhāgavata also, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). If you are actually inquisitive to understand the highest truth, then you must surrender yourself to the guru. That is the (indistinct). Not that by experience I go on, go on, go on, being baffled here, there, here, there, then automatically... No. You may not come even to the right path by such experience. Just like on an ocean, if you do not know direction, the path ship, how you will direct your ship this way, that way? You can go on this way, sometimes this way, that way, this way, that way, then you will be lost. You will be lost. All your endeavors will be simply baffled. You must have the direction; therefore the captain keeps that, what is called, compass: "Just here I am going to the this side." Actually, when I was coming...
Prabhupāda: "It cannot be seen" means you have no seeing power. You cannot see beyond this wall, but that does not mean that because it cannot be seen, that is not fact. That is another foolishness. You have no seeing power. You admit your imperfection. Why you are proposing like that, "Because it cannot be seen"?
Śyāmasundara: No. Because it cannot be shown, he says. But it can be shown.
Prabhupāda: It can be shown, but you have no eyes to see. That is my proposal. Your eyes are just as blind man. If he says that "Show me this," how he can see? He is blind man. So you are blind, you cannot see, but those who have eyes, they can see. Therefore they say, śāstra cakṣuṣa: don't believe those eyes. Śāstra cakṣuṣa. Make the śāstra your cakṣuṣa. That is Vedic position. Don't see with these naked eyes. What is the value of your eyes? Why are you so much proud of your eyes? You cannot see. You see under certain conditions. Therefore adhaksi(?) Adhaksi means those who believe only the eyes. And what is the value of the eyes? That you won't admit, that "I am blind." He won't say. He will say simply, "I cannot see." How you can see? You're blind. That he won't admit, that he's blind. He will simply say that "I cannot see; therefore I don't agree." But you are blind!
Śyāmasundara: It seems to me, in all of your propositions, you are also showing by practical example how this is true. You do not... It's not in the air, so we cannot perceive it in some way.
Prabhupāda: Nothing is in the air. Everything is fact. But if somebody says, although it is fact, "I cannot see, therefore it is not fact," that is not a good proposal.
Śyāmasundara: You give the evidence: the body is suddenly stopping moving. That is evidence. Even though we cannot see the soul, perhaps, but the evidence is there.
Prabhupāda: Why? If you exist, if others exist, why God will not exist?
Hayagrīva: That is his position as an atheist.
Prabhupāda: No, atheist, that is there should be reasonable proposal. If you speak something nonsense, that "I exist," why he, does he bring the word God, if God does not exist? God is there, but He denies the existence. That is atheism. Otherwise, why bringing the word God? If God does not exist, why he is bringing the word God?
Hayagrīva: He wants, he's trying to...
Prabhupāda: That means God is there. He wants his existence; he does not want God to exist. That is his proposal.
Hayagrīva: Yes. Emphasis is on man.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nonsense. If you believe in your existence, you should believe in others' existence also. Actually there is. Human being is not only existing, but there are so many, 8,400,000 different forms of living being. They are existing. So God is also one of them. According to Vedic understanding of God, that God is also one of the living being, but He is the chief, supreme living being. That is the difference. So, in the ordinary understanding a man is better than the animal, and another intelligent man is better than the nonintelligent man. So similarly, you go on with comparative study, one after another, when you come to the final living being, He is the Supreme. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) there is no more superior living being, and that is God. That we have got practical experience. You may be more intelligent than me, he may be more intelligent than you, go on, go on searching. So when you find somebody that He is the final intelligent, that is God. So what is the difficulty to understand? Why God shall not exist? If one person better intelligent than me he can exist, so why a person who exceeds all others in intelligence, He cannot exist? So there is no meaning of atheism. That is ignorance.
Prabhupāda: That means he could not observe the distinction between good and bad. Does it mean like that?
Śyāmasundara: He says the only knowledge which is valid is proven scientifically, and he says that since moral right and wrong is not...
Prabhupāda: What is his proposal? What is scientifically proven? What is scientifically bad?
Śyāmasundara: He says good and bad are not subject to scientific proof.
Prabhupāda: But proof to him. But there is proof, what is really good and what is really bad. Has he given any practical example, that "This is scientifically good" and that "this is scientifically bad"?
Śyāmasundara: He says, "What is good is that which is desired," that desirable.
Prabhupāda: But anyone can desire anything. (laughter) So it is nonsense.
Pañca-draviḍa: Also it is nonsense because he went to jail because he wanted them not to bomb. He went to jail himself.
Prabhupāda: So was that not bad thing, to go to the jail? (laughter)
Śyāmasundara: But it's relative. He says it's relative, good and bad.
Prabhupāda: Then he was a madman. (laughter)
Śyāmasundara: From his point of view, he said it was good that he went to jail.
Prabhupāda: Madman always thinks like that. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: The, this thing is not only in Russia, this is going on in other countries. So, people have been taught not to keep accounts. All these big, big business men they don't keep accounts, so there is no question of income tax. Suppose if I want to purchase from you something. No cash memo, no account. I give you money, cash, I take goods, I sell it, no account, then I cash from my (indistinct). That's all. But provided I have my right books, then these things will be applicable-income tax. Just like in our Indian system, there small broker, he has no book; nothing of the sort. He is purchasing one bag or two bags of rice, he is selling, that's all. He does not keep accounts. So as soon as... The whole tendency is, that I want profit. If the government (indistinct), somehow or other, (indistinct), I will get my profit but I will not show government how much profit I am making. He may propose all these nice things according to his philosophy but he cannot change the mind of the people. Therefore all these proposal will be futile. Simply waste of time, that's all.
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that the mind of people can be changed because the conditions...
Prabhupāda: But not in that way, by force. That is not possible. You cannot change the mind even of a child by force, and what to speak of elderly man, educated man. Is it not so? Mind can be changed by our process: ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Otherwise it is not. These things will be made (indistinct) complete, even in the ordinary position. Their utopia—it is not possible.
Śyāmasundara: He also wants to abolish all inheritance rights, all rights of inheritance.
Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense proposal, because everyone's tendency is to give money to his children. That is the law everywhere. I have got some affection for my children. I want to give something to my children. So how you can stop this (indistinct). They are proposing all impractical.
Śyāmasundara: They are practicing this in Russia. There is no inheritance. There is no...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct), we have seen Russia is not happy. Russia is not happy and they are simply waiting for another opportunity, another revolution. (indistinct) this boy (indistinct), he is not happy. Similarly we can study. Just like when there is rice boiling you take one grain of rice and press it in your finger. If it is soft, then you can understand the whole rice is boiled. So we can understand the position of Russia from the sample, that boy. We haven't got to study more. And we could get some idea by talking with that professor that, how much foolish he is. He says that after death everything is finished. And he is passing on as a big professor, Indian department, Indology or something. So, if his knowledge is like that, if the sample of the citizen is like that boy, then what is their position? They may theorize so many things. So far as we are concerned, foreigners, we could not get even food to our satisfaction. There is no (indistinct) vegetables, no fruits, milk was (indistinct), no rice. That Madrasi gentleman, if he would not have contributed some dahl and rice and the..., then practically we would have starved.
Śyāmasundara: The rice from Korea was like BB's, small pellets. We bought some rice.
Prabhupāda: Jagat. Jagat means change. Jagat. (indistinct) jagat, everything is changing. Just like wind(?), time and tide. So that is not a very unique proposal. It is the nature's way, it is going on. And therefore I say this theory, this Marx theory, it is all changeable(?). It will not stay.
Śyāmasundara: Does this mean that man's nature, there is no fundamental nature that a man's reality is...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is spiritual nature. That is spiritual nature. We are teaching people to come to that standard, spiritual nature which will never change. Just like we are trying to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is not (indistinct). We are serving Kṛṣṇa and when we go to Vaikuntha, we serve Kṛṣṇa. That which is called nitya. Nitya means eternal. Nitya-yukta upāsate. Bhagavad-gītā, eternally engaged in the service of the Lord. Not like Māyāvādī. Māyāvādī philosophers, they will say that "Let me serve Kṛṣṇa now. As soon as I become liberated, I become God. I become God." This is another bluff. Just like I am serving you to take your favor and as soon as I get opportunity I ride upon you. You see? Now,
Śyāmasundara, (indistinct). This is Māyāvāda theory.
Śyāmasundara: They want to become...
Prabhupāda: One. One with God. That means (indistinct). Here, he could not enjoy. There are so many impediments. Therefore brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. This is all mithyā. So I become one with Brahman. This is jñānī. And karma means that I work hard, I get some result, and I enjoy. Karma-phala. But bhakti means that one should be completely free from all these desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11). One should not be covered with the results of jñāna and karma. Then what is bhakti? Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuṣīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Simply to cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness if favor of Kṛṣṇa. Not in my favor. So long you think anything in your favor, that is not bhakti. So where is this mentality? You give up Kṛṣṇa, you replace Kṛṣṇa with the state, that how you can get your mentality, nothing in my favor, everything in favor of the state. It is impossible, but these rascals try. (indistinct) simply (indistinct). Just like Stalin. He got the position and as soon as he found somebody that is not in his favor, then immediately cut his throat. The same, the disease is there, that I want everything in my favor and I cover it by some illusion. So how you can be successful?
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that everything is produced from economic struggle. So that religion is like a police force, and it is invented by the bourgeois or the capitalist as a technique to dissuade the masses from revolting by promising them a better existence, or a happier existence after death so that they can be...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) we are obliged to his proposal now. He has created a philosophy, which is being enforced by killing, by threatening.
Śyāmasundara: And he promises them a better future.
Prabhupāda: That's right.
Śyāmasundara: In the future it will be better.
Prabhupāda: So, he is doing (indistinct) more than the (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: Yes, exactly. So his is a religion also. His philosophy is like a religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) he condemns.
Prabhupāda: Religion means (indistinct) he cannot give up, that is religion.
Śyāmasundara: He thinks everything can be changed, that nothing is permanent.
Prabhupāda: They may say. What is your position? They may say.
Śyāmasundara: The practical thing is that it makes us happy.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: The practical result is that we are happy.
Prabhupāda: So anyway, unless you feel practical, why you are after it? That is my proposal. They may say whatever nonsense they can say.
Śyāmasundara: So the practical result should be satisfaction, happiness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are eating, but somebody says, "What you are doing?" But by eating, if you feel satisfaction of your hunger, that is practical. You haven't got to take certificate from others. You are eating; if you feel satisfaction, if you feel strong, that is the...
Śyāmasundara: So these men, both of them, they have a great faith that philosophy can change the world.
Prabhupāda: And this is the real philosophy. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is real... What is the original source? This is real philosophy. What is that Absolute Truth? Everything is relative truth. What is the Absolute Truth? That is philosophy, Vedānta philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: That has social effects that could change the world?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This, our whole Indian, Vedic civilization, is standing on Vedānta philosophy. And Bhāgavata is explanation of Vedānta philosophy.
Prabhupāda: There is not the question of antagonism. If we actually know who is God and what He desires... I give always this example: if we know the government and the government laws, then there is no antagonism. The government says that "Keep to the right," so there is no question of antagonism; anyone must keep to the right. So there is no question of antagonism. But the antagonism is there when the so-called religious system does not know what is God and what is actually the desire of God. Then there cannot be any antagonism. That perfectness of understanding God and God's regulation or order is clearly described in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are therefore advocating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "Here is God and here is God's instructions." So if we deliver it, and the proposal in the Bhagavad-gītā, they are all practical. Just like God says that you divide the society in four division—not only worker, but also the good brain, good administrator, and good producer of food. That is the actually the divisions of the society. So without division of the society, if you simply keep worker, who will give them instruction to work? These are all imperfect ideas. But the perfect ideas are given in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we follow that, then the human society, humanity will be in perfect order. So either you call it religion or a system to..., following which one can become peaceful. Religion means, to understand God means, a system. A system is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā in three principles. God says that He is the proprietor of everything, sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). So we see this planet, and there is different proprietors-individual proprietor of the land or the state proprietor, the king. So there is a proprietor of this earth, either you divide it nationally or you take it wholly. So similarly there are many, many millions of others, so they are called sarva-loka. So there must be a proprietor. So if we know who is that proprietor and how He is working... That is also stated, that the supreme proprietor is the supreme friend of everyone. So if we find out the supreme proprietor, supreme friend, and if we understand the proprietor is the enjoyer of everything, that is real religion. Then peace will prevail. But if we do not know who is the proprietor, what is His function, what is our relationship with Him, that we create antagonism. Somebody will say, "My religion is better," somebody will say, "My religion is better." But we most of all first, first of all know what is religion. Religion, we say, that the order given by the supreme proprietor and to live according to, according to that order, that is religion. If you do not know what is religion, what is the use of criticizing religion or creating antagonism?
Prabhupāda: The practical... First of all, you prove practically that you are independent.
Śyāmasundara: It wouldn't make any difference because...
Prabhupāda: Why not difference? My point is if your basic principle is wrong, then how you can make a perfect proposal?
Śyāmasundara: Well, I'm not concerned with questions about my origin or about the nature of matter except that...
Prabhupāda: Then you are interested in the superficial things.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Only as it applies to society.
Prabhupāda: That superficial means it is changing. It will never be perfect. If you take superficial thing, then it is changing always. That is nature's law.
Śyāmasundara: My only interest is in the dictatorship of the proletariat, that everyone should have an equal opportunity, equal pay, equal property, everything.
Prabhupāda: That is theory, but it will never be successful. Why in Russia there is manager's pay and the worker's pay? Why not equal pay?
Revatīnandana: He says, "Abolish that." Mao says, "Abolish that system."
Devotee: No, Russia is not a Communist state.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you cannot compare. The analogy is mistaken. The season is matter, material changes. But the evolution is not matter. There is spirit soul. He is making his evolution. So he has got independence. He can reject and accept. Just like yesterday we were talking... (plane overhead) ...Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that "You give up everything, just surrender unto Me," but because you are living entity, you can reject this proposal or accept this proposal. Not that blindly you have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. No. That is not possible. The proposal is there, but it is up to you to surrender or not to surrender. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says that "You do it." If it is automatically, then there was no need of Kṛṣṇa's saying, "Do it." It would have come automatically to the surrendering point. Not like that. They are mistaken in that. The living entity has got the right to accept or reject. So if he takes, he makes his progress, accepting the right path, then he comes to the goal. But if he rejects, he'll not reach the goal (?). That depends on him.
Śyāmasundara: So this philosopher Bergson, he sees two types of morality. The "closed morality," which is the compulsive forms of behavior, which conform to prevailing convention or social pressure or tradition; static morality, one simply follows the tradition blindly.
Prabhupāda: That can be changed according to the... Just like in some scriptures it is said that "Thou shall not kill." So the killing is ordinary thing there. But in some society killing is already prohibited by so much culture that they do not want to kill even an ant. So that depends on education of the particular society. It is not static, that "This will be like this." No. Not like that. "One man's food another man's poison." What is morality in one society, it may be immorality in another society.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, in case of God, it is discovery. It is not invention. It is discovery.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Just like the idea of a chair is already there in nature. Nature provides a chair.
Prabhupāda: Nature provides a sitting place. Just like when there is a slab of stone anywhere, I wish to sit down on it. Psychology. Then the next proposal is, "Why not invent something at my home? It is here in a... I cannot take it." You can say the idea was there already, to sit down on a high place comfortably. So I come home and make a chair according to that idea.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the mind is an emergent, that is, it creates a new organization out of existing things. It emerges new things out of old things. This comes from the idea of evolution.
Prabhupāda: Just like there is gold and there is mountain. So I make a golden mountain. Gold is there, mountain is there. I combine together and make an imagination, golden mountain. Is that like that?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Similar to that.
Prabhupāda: The things are there. We mix up. So many things. The things are there and I mix up with something else and it can be called an invention.
Śyāmasundara: So then he tries to describe what is this mind. The mind is emergent. It can rearrange things and create new things, arrange new things.
Prabhupāda: There is no such thing, from inorganic life. Inorganic life... Suppose just like Brahmā is coming from the navel of Viṣṇu. So where is the... We don't get any information. Viṣṇu is origin, and from Viṣṇu, Brahmā came. From Brahmā, other demigods came, other animals came. They create animals and others. The first created being is Brahmā, the most intelligent. He's not animal. Their proposal is from lower to the higher, but our theory is from the higher, from Viṣṇu. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). "I am the origin of everything." Now, how you can say there is development from the lower creatures? He is the origin. And Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The origin, Absolute Truth, is that from whom everything is generating. So Absolute Truth means He is the supreme life. From life, life is coming. Where is the evidence that dead stone giving birth to a man or animal? Where is the evidence?
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that in future everyone will be a demigod, that the race of man, because of mental life, will be replaced by a race of superconscious beings.
Prabhupāda: Superconscious beings, there are already existing, just like in Siddhaloka and Gandharvaloka. There are many planets.
Śyāmasundara: This earth planet will become like that.
Prabhupāda: No. We don't get such information. Why they are so much anxious about the earth planet? There are many millions of planets. So super human being there... Just like we learn from the śāstras, in the Siddhaloka they can fly from one planet to another. Not only that, all the yogic siddhis, they are, naturally they have got. Just like we are trying to fly in the sky, that is not natural, but a small bird, he can fly. It is God's creation. So similarly, there are many human beings in the Siddhaloka. They, without any airplane, without any..., they can fly. They go from one planet to another. Not that this, from this planet they have developed. They are already existing.
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that nature develops towards that point. The body develops better and better to that point.
Prabhupāda: That is another..., the same rascal proposal. Body never develops. There are different types of body and the soul take shelter of one particular body. The same example, that in the tailor shop there are many shirts and coats. It is not that a shirt is developing into coat, neither the coat is developed into shirt. But there are many varieties of shirts and coat. If you go, you put on, and when the shirt or coat moves, the rascal thinks that it is the shirt and coat is moving. Shirt and coat never moves. The man, or the living entity, within the shirt and coat, he is moving. And therefore as soon as he is out, the shirt and coat, this body, is dead. It has no value.
Śyāmasundara: So according to the desire of the soul, he...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the statement in the Bhāgavata. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantor dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Karmaṇā. Just like you get a shirt and coat according to the price you pay, similarly, by your karma, you get a particular type of body.
Śyāmasundara: So if one was prepared to pay for such demigod existence, he could have it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigod... That is called puṇya-karma. Just like they are going to Candraloka. According to Vedic scripture, yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). If you worship the particular demigods, then you are promoted in that loka.
Śyāmasundara: It's not that accidentally nature will evolve a race of demigods on this planet.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigod... That is called puṇya-karma. Just like they are going to Candraloka. According to Vedic scripture, yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). If you worship the particular demigods, then you are promoted in that loka.
Śyāmasundara: It's not that accidentally nature will evolve a race of demigods on this planet.
Prabhupāda: No, no. There is nothing accidental. It is not that accidental, one becomes high-court judge. (laughter) This is nonsense. Accidental(ly) one becomes a very high grade medical man. This is all childish proposal. They have no sense even. It is all childish. Where is the, in our practical life, where is the evidence that accidentally one has become like this? Is there any evidence of how they propose these childish things? I do not know. And they are passing as philosophers.
Śyāmasundara: Occasionally, for instance, there will be some great genius born in a family, and they will say that somehow or other, nature has produced this genius. The parents are not so intelligent.
Prabhupāda: No. Genius means he, in his previous life, he cultured, and next life is being manifested. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yogo bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate (BG 6.41). So yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ, one who could not finish his yogic activities perfectly, he is given chance. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe. Not that accidental.
Śyāmasundara: So through the practice of some kind of yoga system, men develop higher consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is also, we are practicing, bhakti-yoga.
Śyāmasundara: Otherwise...
Śyāmasundara: So you don't see that the whole world will evolve to this.
Prabhupāda: No. That is a nonsense proposal. It is a nonsense proposal. Just like sometimes we are questioned by some rascals that "Swamijī, if everyone becomes God conscious, goes to back to home, then who will remain here?" (laughter) Just see the nonsense. He is anxious, who will remain here. He is not anxious for himself. (laughter) It is an argument that "Everyone becomes honest, then who will go to the jail? (laughter) To keep up the jail is very important business. You see? So these are foolish questions. You see?
Śyāmasundara: In his time, 1880, 1890, everyone was very optimistic about the future of man. They thought, through scientific discovery, that everyone would become...
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense because they think, "Whatever we like, by nature's way we shall be promoted." Just like in some meeting in Mombassa somebody asked that, after... Some Aurobindo group, that... No, theosophist. That one man is there; he has no degree. So why not degree?
Śyāmasundara: ...then he goes back.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he has got elevation, he has degradation. This is common sense affairs. If you become rich, you can become poor also. Why that once you become rich and there is no question of becoming poor? Is that guaranteed? These nonsense questions are asked even by so-called theosophist and so many there are. You see. They have no common sense even.
Śyāmasundara: His definition of God is that God is the source in nature to support and produce values. What is good, what is true, values, this is God, the source of these values.
Hayagrīva: Hegel considered history and theodicy to be integral. He looks on history as a justification of God, and he rejects the Vedic conception of history because he doesn't see it unfolding any particular meaning. That is, universes are created, maintained and annihilated in an apparently meaningless way. For Hegel, history has to tell the story of man's elevation to God. Apart from the history of man, God would be alone and lifeless. God seems to depend on human history. God is not transcendental but is manifest in the world.
Prabhupāda: But if He is dependent on history, how He is God? This is nonsense proposal. (laughing) He is dependent on history!
Hayagrīva: Doesn't the history of mankind necessarily...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, God is independent, satandhara (?). Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). Svarāṭ, independent. He does not depend on anything; still He is God. That is God. If He is dependent on anything, then He is not God.
Hayagrīva: But does the history of man necessarily make any sense? He saw it as progressing, as man, here again is evolution...
Prabhupāda: Then that does not mean that the ātmā becomes the paramātmā. Just like a drop of water, you put into the sea, it mixes with the sea. It is not mixing. Now suppose it is mixing, but that does not mean that the drop of water has become the sea. He is mixed with the seawater, but that, that does not mean he is the sea. He was not sea before, and after dropping him in the sea, he remains as what he was, but he is mixed up in the sea. Just like an airplane is flying, you see, and going higher and higher, and going very high you do not see. That doesn't mean the airplane is lost. You do not see. So these Sankarites' proposal is defective. Just like a green bird enters a tree but you do not see the bird anymore. You simply foolishly think that he has become one with the tree. But that is foolishness. He keeps his individuality, but your defective eyes cannot see him anymore. The Sankarite theory is like that, a defective understanding, that the individual soul merges into the Supreme. He keeps always his individuality. The foolish man cannot see how he has merged or existing.
Hayagrīva: He says, "There is no external power which could affect the sequence of cause and effect which gives rise to karma. None but the will of the subject of the karma which could put an end to it." Now by willing to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, the individual allows Kṛṣṇa to put an end to his karma.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: Is that...? So Kṛṣṇa is called Mukunda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So our idea is(?) that is Mukunda.
Hayagrīva: So Huxley has no idea that, of the, of this.
Prabhupāda: I said, I said this, that Kṛṣṇa is therefore called Mukunda.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, yajña-arthāt karma. Only for yajña or Kṛṣṇa you should work. Yajña-arthāt karma, anyatra karma-bandhanaḥ. Otherwise you are entangled. This is freedom, to work for Kṛṣṇa; then you are not under entanglement. This is..., there are many practical examples. Just that a soldier, he is killing, his business is killing, and the more he kills he gets recognition. But as soon as he kills one man on his own account, he is murderer. Just like when... The soldier's business is to kill, and so long he is killing for the satisfaction of his state, of the government, he is getting recognition medals. The same soldier, as soon as he kills one man for his own sense satisfaction, he is a murderer, he is to be hanged. This is the karma-bandhanaḥ. The business the same—killing. But one killing is on the order of the state and one killing is for his sense gratification. So killing business is the same, but the position is different. Similarly, when you act for Kṛṣṇa, that is not karma-bandhanaḥ; that is freedom. And when you act for yourself, that is karma-bandhanaḥ. That is the teaching of Bhagavad-gītā throughout. Arjuna was thinking, "Killing, and suffer the sinful activities," because he was thinking on account of himself. But when he understood that "I am induced to kill on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants this fight," then he accepted Kṛṣṇa's proposal. That is not karma-bandhanaḥ. That is not killing. One has to understand this.
Hayagrīva: Now there is one interesting point that Huxley makes in Evolution and Ethics. He tries to tie in the theory of karma with the theory of evolution.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, to give protection to women. That is not actually worshiping, but maintaining her comfortably, that is the duty of the man. But to worship woman as God, that is not very good proposal. Then he will be henpecked. Worship of God is reserved for God only, not for anyone else. But the exchange, cooperation, between men and women for worshiping God, that is essential. Not that woman should be worshiped like God, or man should be worshiped like God. But the affection sometimes is stressed that you see him as God or see, see her as God. That is sentimental. But God is different either from man or from the woman. Both of them are living entities, both of them meant for worshiping God. Just like sometimes in the Vedic conception the wife is considered as dharma-patnī, religious wife. Means wife helps the husband in the matter of his religious life. That is found in, still in Hindu family: the man is worshiping the Deity and the woman is helping about the paraphernalia Deity worship, helping the husband so that he can immediately come into the Deity room and begin worshiping comfortably. So woman should always be engaged to assist the man in every respect in his religious life, in his social life, in his family life. That is real benefit of conjugal life. But if the woman does not agree with the man, and the man treats the woman as his servant, that is not good. The man should give the woman all protection and the woman should give all service to the man. That is ideal life, family life, conceived in the Vedic way of life.
Prabhupāda: That is the idea.
Hayagrīva: The man who's setting up the community.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. He is suggesting that "You make me leader." That is the...
Hayagrīva: This sounds very familiar.
Prabhupāda: Everyone says, "Don't accept leader. Accept me as leader, that's all." But our proposal is that the, without leader nothing can be done. And the supreme leader is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and His representative should become leader. Then the society will be perfect. The supreme leader is God. So He gives instruction, and real leader takes the instruction by disciplic succession, and for the benefit of the total human society they spread the message of God. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Without leader nothing can be done. Even if he says that without leader, he is, that preaching is also leadership. So why people should accept his leadership if there is no need of leader?
Hayagrīva: This was the position of Mr. Rose, who started to try to, try a community at, where we have New Vrindaban now. The man we initially bought New Vrindaban from. This was his position: "No leaders." But it turned out that he wanted to be the leader.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Who is that gentleman?
Hayagrīva: Mr. Rose. You met him once, I recall.
Prabhupāda: Oh. He is not initiated?
Hayagrīva: Oh, no, no. He lives in West Virginia.
| Page Title: | Proposal (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 10 of Feb, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=64, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 64 |