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Proposal (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That Chaganlal this, I pay him extra eighty-five thousand. That is also black. No more white. So the black money was paid in this way, that the money was counted and it was put in a handbag, and it was locked by him. So the key was with him, and the bag was with me. As soon as court accepted the agreement, then I handed over, "Take this bag." Then again this Ratna Parik, he first of all proposed twenty thousand to sell that house. Then when I went there, he knew that he's settling at any cost, he said, "Now that twenty thousand was cost formerly. Now things have gone very high, I cannot sell." So he knows that we are eager to purchase. Then I said, "Then what do you want to do?" "Now I want thirty thousand." "All right, yes. Take it." I did not argue. In this way I settled up. And our Girirāja's father appreciated that "It is better a bad settlement than to prolong the case." So I took this policy. It is bad settlement, from twenty thousand to thirty thousand. But settled out. "I give you 85,000 black." But one thing I gain—that by cancelling the agreement, their proposal was that increase the price, twenty lakhs from fourteen lakhs. That was the arrangement between the attorneys. They cancelled the agreement and take twenty lakhs from him, and the balance should be divided by..., amongst us. That was the agreement. So that addition of twenty lakhs I satisfied Mrs. Nair by fourteen lakhs fifty thousand.

Bali Mardana: Saves 500,000, lakhs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The attorneys were settling at seventeen lakhs, but by Kṛṣṇa's grace I was able to settle up fourteen lakhs fifty thousand.

Bali Mardana: You were able to convince her to settle up for less.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurukṛpā: This was white?

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Just like I have given already. Why nine billion cells are there? Because you can work with it. I have given an electric running on typewriter because I know how to work it. Otherwise, this electric machine and the old electric machine, they are made of the same iron, but if I know how to work it, then I can utilize this machinery. But for a layman, it will be all the same. So that is karma. According to karma, we get a body. The body's machinery is also well-equipped, as I can work. This is nature's gift. Not that "This brain is first-class, that brain is first-class, er last class." All brain, last class. It is matter. The man who is working, the soul who is working, he is first-class, second-class, third-class. It is said clearly, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: (BG 18.61) "Īśvara, Kṛṣṇa, is situated in everyone's heart." Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā: (BG 18.61) "He is offered a yantra, a machine, made by material energy." But that is under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has asked the material energy "Give a good machine; he can work. Good or bad, as He wants, as He wants. That's all. Give him a..." yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. It is all bad. Either this electric machine or that manual machine. They are all matter. So anything material, that is bad. But he wants it; "All right, give it." That is going on. He wants this facility. Now before these motorcars, people were walking on foot. All business was being done. But we wanted a machine like that, so Kṛṣṇa has given us brain to manufacture. That's all. But what you will benefit by this? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "You give up all this nonsense proposal." But they will not do that. They will create another nonsense desire. That desire should be stopped. That is desireless. Because they will go on simply proposing some nonsense desire... That is their material existence. Now, they have discovered this, made this motor, nice... Now there is problem, no power, gasoline. And if the gasoline is stopped, then your whole endeavor is gone. So this is their business. They are manufacturing something which will entangle him more and more. That he does not know.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā says, "Surrender." If you take Bhagavad-gītā, then Bhagavad-gītā says... You cannot understand... If you want to understand Bhagavad-gītā, you must understand from Bhagavad-gītā. And apart from Bhagavad-gītā, you are already surrendered to God; you are not independent. Are you independent? Now, if, when there is rain, we could not come here to walk. So we are already surrendered. You cannot stop the rain and walk. You are already surrendered. So if Bhagavad-gītā says that "You completely surrender," what is the wrong there? You are already surrendered. Just like you are already surrendered to the government laws. If you say, "I don't care for government laws," is that very nice proposal? You're already surrendered. So what is the wrong there? You are already surrendered to the laws of God, or nature, whatever you say. So if Bhagavad-gītā says, "Surrender fully unto Me," what is the wrong there?

Bali Mardana: They will say, "Well, how do we know that Kṛṣṇa is God?"

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bali Mardana: They will say, "How do we...?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, Kṛṣṇa is not God, but you have already surrendered to God. Kṛṣṇa may not be God, that is... You bring another God, then we shall reject him. Kṛṣṇa... But that you cannot. You do not know who is God. At least, we know what is God. But if you deny that Kṛṣṇa is not God, then bring another God at least equal to Kṛṣṇa.

Bali Mardana: They'll bring Guru Maharaji. (laughter) Many people were disappointed in Houston because he did not display any miracles. They were expecting to see many things.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: All right, you can get everything. You will do it. But why don't you do it for yourself that you will not die?

Satsvarūpa: They'll say, "That's all right. I'm working for posterity so that people who come in future generations..."

Prabhupāda: What posterity. You cannot take help from your machine. What posterity you will take? It is nonsense. You are starving, and you, you want to speak that "I will distribute prasādam." What is this nonsense? You are starving, and you are proud of distributing food to others. Is that very good reason, a reasonable proposal? What...? First of all, you stop your starvation. Then you can say, "Now I have stopped my starvation. I'll distribute food to the hungry men."

Siddha-svarūpānanda: All the scientists and leaders are all like that. They don't have the vaguest idea. They don't have the vaguest idea...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we...

Siddha-svarūpānanda: ...of anything.

Prabhupāda: ...call them rascals and fools. They may advertise themselves as scientists, but we take them as rascals and fools.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: Some of them so much want to be God, they're thinking they're going to create life and make bodies and this and that.

Prabhupāda: The only question is that first of all, keep your life. Then you cure another life. Life in you is already there. Now keep it. Protect it by some machine or by some chemical. Then you talk all this nonsense. What do you think, Viṣṇujana Mahārāja?

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Sudāmā Vipra, you are very critical. You can say. Am I right or wrong?

Sudāmā Vipra: You're right. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Thank you. That's... Svarūpa Dāmodara asked the scientist that, "You are beginning life from chemicals. Suppose I give you chemicals, can you make life?" "That I cannot say." This is their proposal. This is their... All rascals. And they're wasting public money and making other fools. They're going to the Candraloka and this loka, Venus. Simply wasting time. This remark I gave in the newspaper sometimes in San Francisco...

Siddha-svarūpānanda: When they asked about the moon.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. It is simply waste of time and energy. That's all. And in 1968 I wrote that Easy Journey: "And this is all childish."

Siddha-svarūpānanda: Sputniks.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Have you read that?

Siddha-svarūpānanda: Yes. It is very nice.

Prabhupāda: So we can boldly say on the strength of Vedic literature that all these attempts are childish and those who are attempting, they're all fools and rascals. That's all. Now they're silent about moon expedition. They're trying to go to Venus. What happened to moon, moon planet?

Siddha-svarūpānanda: Yeah right.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is your present service?

Guest (5): At present, I am serving in the steel plant, Hindustan Steel Industry.

Prabhupāda: Oh, steel plant.

Guest (5): And I want to, wish to dedicate my whole life to the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is very good proposal.

Guest (5): And I am a...

Prabhupāda: How far you are educated?

Guest (5):. As long as I will live, I will broom and clean the temple.

Prabhupāda: Very good. That's all right. You go on doing that.

Guest (5): OK. And then I will submit my resignation.

Prabhupāda: That is up to you. I cannot say.

Guest (5): Yes. And my parents are sufficient enough. They have enough land...

Prabhupāda: Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. Tan-mandira-mārjanādau. That is also great service. If you guide other people, and you do yourself, just to keep the temple very neat and clean, it will be a very, very, great service.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, they, they may be secular, but they cannot neglect your one śāstra.

Guest: Therefore they are neglecting it. They should not neglect it. They should not...

Prabhupāda: So that is to be decided by the court.

Guest: Therefore... I'm coming on that. What I say on the prima facie, the nuisance is not there. Number two ground, about that traffic objection, it is always a practice in Bombay, if there is objection, of traffic department, in that arranged, in that party which has agreed, in the person or the body which has made the proposal for the temple, is to be called, and they are to stand on the side and find how the traffic is going. There is an example about this near here, this bandstand at Chowpatti. One of my relations, he wanted to have a theater there. The position was not granted by the traffic department. But in that way the traffic department had, before deciding the issue, had to call those people who had purchased the plot for a theater purpose and convince them that this traffic will be a block and will be a bottleneck and it will be difficult for the police to control it. And theater, at every time, every three hours, you have particular four thousand or five thousand or two thousand people entering in the theater and going out also. Here the same problem is not there. Therefore the police or the traffic department has been biased and deliberately, for their own ulterior motive, they have taken this type of position, without involving us. If I am guilty, I must be told that I am a guilty man. They should prove in my presence. So no chance was given to me. Nothing was, I was not invited at the spot where the traffic was a bottleneck problem for the future. Without any justification, merely one sentence that "It could be." And if you will read their letter, they have not committed that certainly it will be a traffic problem. They said, "may be." If you see the reading, wording of their letter, they said, "It may be a traffic problem." They were not positive in their statement by saying that "This will be a traffic problem." This "shall be," or this "will" word, is not mentioned. It "may be." That means the option is equally open: "May not be," also. That's only (indistinct) has been taken without any basis of policy.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then that... No, Indian citizen we have got. Just like here. He is Indian man. Or to the... But in proportion, they are not even one percent. That is the difficulty. And if the government likes that if they make it without... Just like I was refused entrance in Africa, Nairobi. So if the government says that... There, they understand that these Americans making this satyagrama (?), or as you have proposed, then immediately, within twenty-four hours, they will be deported. Then I do not know who will manage my, so many establishment. Therefore if the Hindus and the Vaiṣṇavas, they combine together that "This is an important proposal," they go to the court, they give their signature, they come here, that will be nice. It may be long time. That doesn't matter. But that will be solid thing. And if the government becomes, "Oh, these Americans are making this propaganda," at any moment they can ask that "Within twenty-four hours you get out."

Guest: Yes, they can throw them out. No, my intention was not that this movement should be by foreigners because that will be against them. What I was meaning to. They should be...

Prabhupāda: That should be taken. Therefore I say, hold meeting, and the Hindus, the Vaiṣṇavas, they should take action. Not Americans. There may be Americans, but they'll...

Guest: No, what I say that Americans may organize it, but the participants should be Indians.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You cannot do anything. The hospitals are increasing, beds are increasing, and the diseases are increasing. Then what can you do?

Guest (1): We can do our own satisfaction.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (break) ...done not meant for Kṛṣṇa, that is for his own satisfaction. Just like Arjuna wanted to become nonviolent: "No, no, Kṛṣṇa. I cannot kill my kinsmen." That is a good proposal. But that was his satisfaction.

Guest (1): That is very correct.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was his satisfaction. But Kṛṣṇa wanted that "You must fight." And when he agreed to that, that is his perfection. Before that, he was trying to satisfy he.

Guest (1): Yes. When he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, that was his...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the only purpose of life. Anything that is done, that is useless waste of time. Therefore Kṛṣṇa particularly said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vra... (BG 18.66). That is ekam. You try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa only. That will give you perfection. Otherwise your own satisfaction, that's all.

Guest (1): Yes, very correct, very correct.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you do, that is your satisfaction. That is karma.

Guest (1): But not yogi.

Prabhupāda: No, karma. (break) ...for your own sense satisfaction, that is karma. And if you do it for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, that is karma-yoga.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Pray at home?

Indian man (2): Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Secretly?

Indian man (2): Not secretly. Just before others.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That's all right. If you are praying, it is all right. But our proposal is that you have to understand the science. Prayer is very good, but if one offers prayer after knowing the science, that is very good.

Indian man (2): So we are also giving the knowledge about the science, science of Kṛṣṇa philosophy.

Satsvarūpa: We...?

Devotee: Are we giving the knowledge?

Devotee (2): Giving knowledge about science.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Yaśomatīnandana: He means material science.

Prabhupāda: Material science? No, no, I am talking of Kṛṣṇa science.

Indian man (2): About the existence of God?

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No necessary, necessary, necessary because mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That is the path of bhakti. It is also confirmed, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).

Indian man (1): Bhakti is in the mind, in the heart.

Prabhupāda: No, not in the mind. No, no. Bhakti is in the heart, but there must be... Just like if you have got love for me in the heart, it must be demonstrated. Just like a husband and wife. The wife is says, "Now we are married and I have got love for you. Let me remain here. You go to your home." The bridegroom comes, "Now we are married and I love you, you love me. You go home, I remain here." Is that very good proposal?

Indian man (1): No, but this...

Prabhupāda: This is nonsense. (laughing) "I have got bhakti, but I don't do anything for You. You go home." So that is not bhakti. Bhakti must be exhibited by activity. That is the definition of bhakti. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). So these are the nine different ways of expressing bhakti. First thing is śravaṇam. Śravaṇam. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ, chanting and hearing. Of whom? Of Viṣṇu. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Not of any other one. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that "We can chant anyone's name, either I chant of any demigod's name or any name."

Indian man (1): But does He not say that "Whatever or whoever does it, it comes to Me."

Prabhupāda: That is avidhi-pūrvakam. That is said, avidhi-pūrvakam, "Not in order."

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Very recent, very recent future. This Communist and Capitalist mentality will bring the next... The Communists will be victorious.

Dhanañjaya: And after the war what will be the result?

Prabhupāda: After the war they will come to sense. The Communist problem... Communist is not a problem. It is good proposal, but they are missing one point. They are making Lenin the leader. If they make Kṛṣṇa the leader, then the Communistic idea will be very fruitful. They are picking up a rascal leader, but if they pick up the nice leader, God the supreme dictator, then every-thing is all right. They are catching up a dictator, but they do not know that he is rascal number one. But if he catches the Supreme Lord as dictator, as Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), then he will be happy, immediately. Keep amongst yourself and produce. Produce food grain, produce cotton, mustard seed. Self dependent, no use... And we don't require motorcar. Bullock cart is sufficient. There is no need of going anywhere.

Bhagavān: We can make our own cloth? Khādi.

Prabhupāda: Yes, cotton. From cotton you can make your own cloth.

Dhanañjaya: My wife knows how to spin cloth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By spinning thread, then you make cloth. Without any price. You grow your cotton and have your cloth. So by machine, they have created so many idle brain, and therefore hippies are coming out, problem. This is the result of this. Because they have created this machine, not everyone is employed, so he must become a hippie. Idle brain is a devil's workshop.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you cannot do that. Why there are so many hungry people all over the world? What you have done? There are thousands and thousands. Even in big, big cities like New York, why there are so many people lying on the street? Why the hippies are lying on the street, on the park? So what is the value of your, this proposal? You cannot stop it.

Devotee: Yeah, but they criticize us that we don't want to feed...

Prabhupāda: No, why the hippies are lying on the street or in the park? Why? You give them relief. The whole Amsterdam city is full of hippies lying on the street and park. What you are doing for them? They are not poor men. They have got enough to eat. Their parents, father, grandfather, they can give. Why they are lying? What you can do? Go and pick them up. Make them nicely living. Why don't you do that? Talking nonsense. What is their answer? Why they have become hippies? They are not... The Indians may be poverty-stricken, but they are not poverty-stricken. In England the whole British empire is there. The whole American government is there. And still, western countries, they have got resources. They have means. They are not poor. Why your sons and grandsons are lying on the street? What is their answer? They are making plan that everyone would live materially very comfortably, but why these people, in spite of possessing material facilities... (break) Yes, this is the real problem.

Satsvarūpa: We have to try to teach everyone.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No no. We don't say that don't construct building, but don't think that this is everything. We don't say that you don't construct building. But you construct building, sit comfortably, but take knowledge. But they are not ready for the knowledge. They think, "This is all knowledge." That's all. That is the difficulty. We say that "All right, you have constructed this building, but you take this knowledge. This is not permanent; you are permanent. So why don't you try for your permanent residence?" Is it very unreasonable? If I say, "My dear Mr. such and such, you have constructed a very nice house. That is all right, but you cannot stay here," Is it a wrong proposal? So why he does not understand that "I will not be able to stay. Then where is that place I will be able to stay forever?" He says... Rascal, he will not take this knowledge. Then he'll say, "Oh, don't talk all these things."

Devotee: He gets very angry, very upset at this movement.

Prabhupāda: He is such a foolish that he knows that he will not be able to stay in this, but "Why I made this house so strong, durable? I could have made some temporary house, some four pillars, that's all. But why I am anxious? But I want that a building should be so strong it will endure for so many years." But what about you? What is your guarantee? That knowledge, they will not take. This is their illusion. We don't say that you have done wrong. Utilize it. Be comfortable, seated, and use your time for taking that knowledge.

Dhanañjaya: They are constructing these buildings in defiance of the existence of God.

Prabhupāda: Not defiance. Out of foolishness. They have got some energy for better purposes, but they are not utilizing it for better purposes,—for some things which is illusion. That's all. They have got intelligence. This construction of building requires good intelligence, but they're lacking this intelligence, that "I have constructed this house very nicely, but I will not be able to live in it."

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Not defiance. Out of foolishness. They have got some energy for better purposes, but they are not utilizing it for better purposes,—for some things which is illusion. That's all. They have got intelligence. This construction of building requires good intelligence, but they're lacking this intelligence, that "I have constructed this house very nicely, but I will not be able to live in it."

Dhanañjaya: Actually, they don't live in there. No one lives in these buildings. These are office buildings. Even they don't live there. They simply work.

Prabhupāda: That is also living, for eight hours daily. We don't condemn, but our proposal is that you have got higher intelligence. Utilize it for higher purpose. The construction of dwelling place, it is known even to the birds and the beasts. The mouse also knows how to live within the earth. They make a hole. According to their capacity they make there. The birds also, they make their nest also, to live comfortably. So this intelligence there.

Dhanañjaya: Also the ants.

Prabhupāda: Ants also. Everyone knows. God has given that intelligence. Everyone knows how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life, and how to defend. Everyone knows, according to their... But everyone except the human being does not know what is self-realization. That is only prerogative of the human being. So if they are not utilizing his intelligence for that purpose, he is simply wasting time, śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8), simply laboring for nothing.

Haihaya: Here in Italy the majority of people is communism. The majority of young people is communism.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haihaya: But they say that first we must deposit the same right, the distribution must be equal to everyone.

Prabhupāda: That you cannot do. Why don't you see? Why don't you make up others who are already suffering? What you are doing for them? They do not like to take it. Even your proposal, "You come, live in a nice house," they will not take it. Then? What you will do? You are making arrangement for good purposes, for good standard of living, but others, they will not accept your proposal. I have given the example, hippies. Let the Communists come and ask them, "Why you are living in this way? Come on. We shall give you." Why communists? Their government is offering, "Why you are lying on the street? Come on. Live in a nice house." They will not accept it. What you will do, that?

Nitāi: That is just like the example you gave the other day about the man sitting under the tree. Someone comes up to him and says, "Come, work hard. You will enjoy." The hippies, their only business is trying to enjoy. They are just absorbed in sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. The hippies' philosophy is that "After all, we have to enjoy sense. So we are getting free, freedom. We can have sense enjoyment, sex life on the street. Why shall I work for the same purpose? We have already got it. You civilized man, you so-called civilized, advanced civilized man, for your sex life, you have to go to the skyscraper building, and we can do it on the street, on the park. We have got better facilities. Why shall I accept your philosophy." They will say, they say like that. (break) ...agree to the fact that they have no knowledge. Everything they are doing whimsically without any purpose. (break) ...from their side. You have to find out, make research.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, no, you cannot expect that the whole world will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible. You keep your standard. Don't be bewildered by these rascals. That is our proposal. We should not be misled by this rascal philosophy. We shall stick to our own philosophy. That is required. Because we know all their philosophy are defective. That is not perfect. So why shall I be misled by their philosophy? We shall stick to our own principle, Kṛṣṇa philosophy. That's all. Everyone should stick to the right philosophy. That is human sense. Not be biased and carried away by some whimsical way.

Satsvarūpa: Their philosophy is very appealing because they begin, they say...

Prabhupāda: That is because people are fools, rascals. Therefore it is very...

Satsvarūpa: They say, "Look, all these people are starving and these people have all the money. Let us make it equal. And the people become slave..."

Prabhupāda: But that is not being done. Therefore I said... I go to their country. "Why in your country there is inequality? Why in your country?" That was my point. "Why you have made a class of men as manager and a class of men as worker?" Nobody wants to be worker.

Satsvarūpa: Everyone knows that Russia is just like the U.S. almost.

Prabhupāda: What is that? (loud siren)

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: But why...? You cannot feed even. Just like I wanted rice, I wanted fruit. You could not give me. So why do you claim that you can feed everyone? That you cannot. You are falsely claiming. If you think that simply supplying meat, everyone will be satisfied, that is your nonsense.

Haihaya: Yes, they give. But they say you must prostitute for it. You must prostitute for this food which we give you.

Prabhupāda: So is that very good proposal?

Haihaya: It's worst thing that one can propose. It's just to push man to degenerate himself because of this food, little food.

Prabhupāda: It is my practical experience. Śyāmasundara had to waste at least two to three hours to secure rice, fruits. Only milk and butter could we get. And then we had to wait in the... They would not allow us to cook unless they had finished. This was the difficulty. Practically I have suffered. All their claims are bogus. The people are not happy there. The young men are not allowed to go outside the country. Just see. All freedom lost. All freedom lost. It is a government of terrorism, that's all. And whatever the Communists do, simply by terrorizing that's all. They have no gentleman's method. Terrorizing. (break) ...misleading other rascals that "You come this way; you will be happy." And the rascals are being misled. They are accepting. This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The blind man is asking other blind men, "Come on, I shall cross you the street." But because he is rascal, he does not ask, "Sir, you are also blind. how will you lead us?" They cannot inquire. Or he does not know that "This man is asking me, who is willing to take the leadership, he is also blind." This blind man does not know, do not know. They do not know. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No. That is another thing. But these deer and the snakes, many animals, they are very much fond of music. They enjoy.

matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā
mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām
adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ
punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām
(SB 7.5.30)

Next question is "How one can become interested in the spirit soul or Kṛṣṇa consciousness? How?" This is the position. They cannot. So next proposal is, "How they can be?" Naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghriṁ spṛśaty anartha..., yad-arthagamam, niṣkiñcanānām, pāda-rajo-'bhiṣekam.

naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghriṁ
spṛśaty anarthāpagamo yad-arthaḥ
mahīyasāṁ pāda-rajo-'bhiṣekaṁ
niṣkiñcanānām (na vṛṇīta yāvat)
(SB 7.5.32)

Naiṣāṁ matiḥ. Eṣām, "of these rascals and fools," matiḥ, "consciousness," cannot be turned. Naiṣāṁ urukramāṅghrim, "towards the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Urukrama." Urukrama means "one who acts very wonderful." And his lotus feet. So naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghrim: "Their attention cannot be converted or turned towards the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa who acts very wonderfully." Anartha apagamaḥ: "And all these misconcepts of life becomes vanquished." How it can be? Now, "So long one does not touch his head to the dust of a devotee of the Lord who is niṣkiñcana, who has nothing to do with this material world, that devotee, who is simply interested in Kṛṣṇa." If one has got the opportunity of touching his head to the lotus feet, to the dust of the lotus feet of such a great devotee, then it is possible. Otherwise, it is not. Niṣkiñcana, mahīyasāṁ pāda-rajo 'bhiṣekam. Mahīyasām, such glorified devotee, the dust of the lotus feet, can help him, that's all. Naiṣāṁ matis tāvad urukramāṅghriṁ spṛśaty anartha (SB 7.5.32).

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That is later. That is later on. For beginning you have simply to give submissive aural reception. That is the first beginning. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. Our process is jñāne prayāsam udapāsya. I know something or I can know the Supreme by my knowledge. As I am something, I am very important, our process is to forget this first of all. This is called humbleness, submissive. Generally, the jñānīs, yogis, they are thinking that they can do something by their own endeavor. Our process is different, that "I am limited. My endeavor is limited. My knowledge is limited. So I cannot realize the unlimited by these limited resources." This is our first submission, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya, that "I am limited; I am not unlimited." That's a fact. So how can I know the unlimited by my limited activities? This is our first submissiveness. Just like in the Vedic literature it is stated that Mahā-Viṣṇu, the plenary expansion of Govinda, from His breathing innumerable universes are coming and going. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). So we cannot conceive even of this universe. And innumerable universes are coming and going during the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu. And that Mahā-Viṣṇu is the plenary expansion of Govinda. So this is the position of Govinda. So therefore our process is not to try by our limited endeavor to understand the unlimited. This is our first proposal. Better be submissive and hear from the Lord or from the representative of the Lord about Him. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Call Nitāi.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: In somewhere. If somewhere it is produced, then other place also it can be produced. You perform yajña, saṅkīrtana-yajña. You will get enough food. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ, parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ, annād bhavanti bhutānī (BG 3.14). So in Switzerland there are many slaughterhouses also? Many?

Guru-gaurāṅga: Some time ago I read in the papers that they had so much milk and so much butter that the government proposal was kill the cows.

Prabhupāda: Kill all the animals. Oh, just see. They will not give to others.

Bhagavān: The farmers were complaining that their prices weren't competitive cause there was so much milk.

Prabhupāda: The price is the standard, not that goods are required. They want money for purchasing wine. This is the difficulty. They are not satisfied simply by eating sufficient. They want money for woman and wine. This is their philosophy.

Bhagavān: In the United States that same problem was there, that the prices were all going up. Everything was having inflation.

Prabhupāda: So if they had sense, they should have exported where there is necessity of this milk, butter, grain. Then the world will be happy.

Yogeśvara: That was my question. If there is necessity for exporting, then there is necessity for maintaining ships and trains and means of communication, employing workers, electrical dynamos for running...

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. As they increase their sinful activities, these facilities will be taken away. Therefore we propose that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, and we are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Just cooperate in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the whole world will be happy. This is our proposal. Why do you think it is American, it is Swiss, it is Indian? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Let us become obedient to Kṛṣṇa, and because we are sons of Kṛṣṇa, let us enjoy the property of Kṛṣṇa. Immediately there will be happiness. I have several times said that the, still the whole world can produce so much grains and foodstuff, ten times of the population can be fed, ten times. In Africa, in Australia, and even in America, so much, I means, prospect of producing food. But they will not cooperate. They will kill the animal. They will throw the grain to the sea, and claim, "It is my land. It is my property."

Bhagavān: Then they complain about scarcity.

Prabhupāda: For money. So rascal civilization is going on. Therefore I challenged that man, "Where is your brain?" There is no brain. You remember that?

Yogeśvara: From the International Labor Organization.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no brain.

Karandhara: Prabhupāda, in a recent study by U.S. Agricultural officials, they found that it is really uneconomical to eat meat. It takes so much energy and man hours to raise and transport and slaughter the cows that it makes it very wasteful.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yogeśvara: He says, "How is that that the only thing we've talked about since we came today has been eating meat? Is that the only thing that the Bhagavad-gītā teaches?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, because our proposal is that unless you become... Find out that verse, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, te dvandva-moha-nirmuktāḥ. This is the beginning of theism. Theism means you must be free from all sinful activities. That is theism. If you remain sinful you cannot make any progress in theism. That is the point. (break)

Yogeśvara: Doesn't that make us rather exclusive, that we have some facility for spending all of our time meditating and purifying our lives? Doesn't that make us a rather exclusive group of people? If only those who are completely pure can engage in service, that means only people like us who have time to sit and meditate...

Prabhupāda: What meditation? The thing is that here it is stated, "Unless one is free from all sinful activities, he cannot be engaged in My service." And the pillars, according to Vedic, pillars of sinful activities... Just like four pillars. One is this meat-eating, the other is illicit sex, the other is gambling, and the other is intoxication. So unless we break these four pillars of sinful life there is no meaning of meditation or worshiping God. You cannot ignite fire, at the same time pour water on it. So sinful life means destruction of spiritual life. So once you begin spiritual life, and other way you begin sinful life, then how it will be? It is counteracted. There is no progress.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So what is their standard?

Yogeśvara: Did he say anything before he left?

Jyotirmayī: Yeah, he said that he was in the, he was promulgating a law. So I asked him if he was going to help promulgate a law against cow-killing. So he said...

Prabhupāda: Now, this is our proposal, that why you should kill cow? Cow may be protected to take milk, and use this milk for so many nice preparations. Then, so far meat-eating is concerned, so every cow will die. It is a fact. So you wait a few days only. There will be so many dead cows. So you take all the dead cows and eat. So where is the bad proposal? If you say that "You are restraining us from meat-eating," no, we don't restrain you. We simply request you that "Don't kill. When the cow is dead, you eat it."

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in the western countries now, the young people, when their parents grow old, they generally send them away to old age homes. So if they have no compassion even towards their own parents, that they would send them away, then how can we educate them to protect the cow which is just like mother if they're even willing to practically kill their parents?

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of protecting. We shall protect. Simply we ask them that "Don't purchase meat from the slaughterhouse. We shall supply you the cow after his death." Where is the wrong?

Satsvarūpa: Not enough meat.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: Not enough meat fast enough, they're eating so much beef.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: More cows. Yes. They'll have more cows. Simply we request that "Don't..." You propagate this. "Don't kill, don't maintain the slaughterhouse." It's very sinful. It has got very awkward reaction on the society. Stop this slaughterhouse. We don't say that you stop eating meat. You eat meat, but don't take it from slaughterhouse. Or don't by killing. Simply wait, and you'll get the... How long the cow will live? Their maximum age is twenty years. So not that you have to wait for twenty years. There are many cows, eighteen years, sixteen years or ten years. So wait for that much time. Then you regularly get dead cows and eat. What is the wrong? You make this propaganda. You may, for few years, may not get. By that time, you can eat some dogs and cats. (laughter) Yes. The Koreans, they are using dogs. Where is the difference between you and the Korean? You can eat also dogs for the time being. Or hogs. You eat hogs. We don't prohibit killing of these small animals. We don't sanction, neither prohibit. But especially we request cow protection because it is ordered by Kṛṣṇa. Because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious people, therefore we have to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa, go-rakṣya. That is our duty. And economically also, it is very useful. Kṛṣṇa has recommended for nothing, it is not like that. It has some meaning, that if you have got cows. You see. They're... Our cows in New Vrindaban, they're giving more milk than other cows. Because they are confident that they'll not be killed here. They have got sense. Not like that rascal, "They have no soul. They have no sense." They have got sense. In other places, they do not give so much milk. But in New Vrindaban, they're so jolly, as soon as Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja calls, they'll come. Yes, just like friends. And they are confident that "We'll not be killed." So they are jubilant, and they're giving much milk. Yes. So in Europe, the cows are also good, but the cow-killing system also very good. So you stop this. We simply request that, that you'll get the cow's flesh. As soon as it is dead, we shall supply you free of charges. You haven't got to pay four thousand pounds or four, this, or so much money. You get free and eat. And why you are killing? Stop this slaughterhouse. What is the wrong in this proposal? I think he could not give any counter-reasoning.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: It's a proverb.

Pṛthu-putra: Proverb.

Prabhupāda: Problem?

Yogeśvara: Proverb.

Prabhupāda: So put into action this proverb. So that is... You are one of the leading mayor. That is our appeal. What is unreasonableness in our proposal that so long the cow lives...? Cow, every cow gives milk. So it fulfills your proverb also. So under the circumstances, let the cows live peacefully, take milk and make this preparation of cow's milk, and when it is dead, free of charges. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says he will try to take to heart what you have told him today, and he thanks you for having received him.

Prabhupāda: So kindly do this service. Kṛṣṇa will bless you.

M. Mesman: Thank you. Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (end)

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: If I say that "I can turn you immediately to become a dog..." That is possible, but will you agree to become a dog?

Mādhavānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: Why? You will forget. That is foolishness. "Because I shall forget, therefore I don't care for it"—this is childish, foolish proposal. If I say, "I will turn you immediately to this grass, and you will stay here for one hundred years," will you agree to stand like that for hundred years? Hare Kṛṣṇa. In the western countries actually there is no philosophy.

Mādhavānanda: When this is explained to them, they usually, if they are a little intelligent, can understand, but they don't want to understand.

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. And therefore they are rascals. No intelligence. Intelligence is there, but it is so covered that it is almost like trees. Trees are also intelligent because it is life. There is intelligence. You will see one tree is growing. If there is wall, it will grow like this. Have you seen it?

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is intelligence. And it is proved by science. Dr. Jagadisha Candra Bose, in Calcutta, he has got institute. A machine records how a tree feeling. You cut one tree. How it is feeling pain, that is recorded in the machine.

Haṁsadūta: They also hear sound. They made some experiment that when they grow plants with music, they grow more.

Prabhupāda: Oh, just see.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So their work was going on. Their work was not suffering for want of this watch.

Dr. Muncing: I agree.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have got good brain. Instead of utilizing the brain to know what is the active principles of this whole universe, if we utilize that brain for manufacturing a watch, that is not very good proposal. You manufacture watch, but at the same time, you try to study the active principle, who is the watchmaker. I am seeing the watch with the eyes, but as soon as the active principle is gone, no more seeing. Where is that science? A watchmaker is making, screw-driving, and doing so many things. All of a sudden his heart fails. No more watch. What is that active principle? Where is that science? That is my proposition.

Dr. Muncing: It wasn't the manufacturing aspect. It was the creative aspect that I was concerned with, that there is a creative faculty in man that can be used to benefit the rest of mankind. Isn't there a tendency...

Prabhupāda: Creative faculty... Therefore we first of all give stress, the creative faculty, that the watchmaker is doing nice work, but who has made that watchmaker? Who is that creative faculty? You are a scientist, you have good brain, but you cannot manufacture the brain. But who has manufactured your brain?

Guest (2): But isn't it the use to which the brain is put that is the...

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1975, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Teletype, yes. You push here "a" and the other end the "a" will immediately strike. There is no need of another person typing. But how it is being done? There is electronic arrangement by higher scientist. Not that, ordinary typewriter will not, no. Suppose if you keep one typewriter at your brother's place and you push it here, will it strike there? (laughter) Why? Because there is no arrangement. There is no arrangement. So these are common sense but the rascals will not understand. That without a touch of the living entity nothing can be done. The supreme living entity is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is said mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "I am the cause of the material energy working." Parasya śaktiḥ vividhaiva śruyate. There is parasya śaktiḥ, now who can explain how this flower has come into existence? That is same thing. The energy of Kṛṣṇa is working. Just like you want to paint one nice flower, so you have to take the brush and the color and you have to endeavor. Not that automatically coming, this beautiful flower. So how do you think this beautiful flower has come automatically? This is foolishness. There is also the brush, the paint, but it is so perfect that just like you cannot see how the other typewriter is striking. You cannot say it is automatically striking. There is arrangement. But this arrangement you do not understand. Therefore you are foolish, you are thinking that this typewriter is striking automatically. It is not automatically. Here the other typewriter it is stroken and there is electric arrangement and it is striking. So you have to understand like... That is sura. And asura, they will say, "No, there is no God. It is taking automatically, it is going on," This is foolishness. The asura means foolish, first-class foolish, that's all. Why it has become so? That is explained here. That they do not know how to behave, nāpi cācāraḥ. Na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate, neither they know what is the actual truth. They are defective themself and they are explaining in the defective way that so many rascal chemists they say that the chemical evolution is the cause of life. What is this nonsense? Chemical evolution, you get the chemicals and make a experiment and produce life. Then your proposal is all right that by chemical evolution there is life. No, that is not possible. You have got all the chemicals.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1975, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: This should be challenged that "You are foolish number one." Actually it so happened in California. One big chemist he came there to lecture the chemical evolution, by mixing of chemical life has come into existence. So there was one student, he is my disciple, Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, he said that (break) ...first-class cheater, that's all, mūḍhā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). (indistinct) ...people are suffering for want of this knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are trying to bring people in true platform of knowledge, not to increase death like these rascals and fools. That is our proposal. They are trying to obstruct us because if everyone becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious then they can't cheat anyone. Now Acyutānanda Swami, he went to some place, there was a big sannyāsī, very well-known sannyāsī. So he went to sell some books in their āśrama first of all. So one of his student, one of his disciple, he canvassed Acyutānanda, "Why don't you ask some question to Swamiji?" He clearly said, "I have nothing to question from your Swamiji. I know better than him." (laughter) So actually bring any so-called yogis, swamis or incarnation, our student will challenge him. He does not know anything. We have got such a nice book of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā. By the arguments and proposition in the Bhagavad-gītā we can capture all these rascals and nonsense. All right? Yes, question is very good to understand clearly. (end)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Oh, illusioned, yes.

Rūpānuga: Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. They are so-called educated, doctors, but actually they have no knowledge. Simply they are bluffing, cheating. Where is the question of creation? So many millions and trillions of living entities are there, and they are making conference, "How to create from chemicals?" Just see this childish proposal. And wasting time and misleading person, and wasting hard-earned money of the state. And big, big foundation supplying them money. And if you ask, "Give us some money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness," "No, no, we are not interested in religion. We are interested in science, and this is the science." All fools and rascal, mūḍhā. That is our test. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a mūḍhā. Bas. We have got the test tube, this Bhagavad-gītā, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So as soon as we see here is a man, if he has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, "All right, you are mūḍhā." That's all. We haven't got to test him. Test tube is already there. So you tell these mūḍhas that "Why you are wasting so much time and money to find out how to manufacture life? Then what are these life? How they have come? That is not a problem, that without your creation of life the world will go to hell. It is already there." What do they say? "Why they are trying to create life?" What is their answer? What they will get it? The things are already there. Suppose there are so many motorcars, and if I manufacture one motorcar, so is there any great credit for me? The motorcars are already there. When there was no car, motorcar, the first man who manufactured, he had some credit. Who manufactured? The Daimler or somebody else? So he had some credit, "Yes, you have done something, horseless carriage. People will get something convenience. That's all right." But when there are thousands and millions of motorcars and creating accident only, and still, if I manufacture motorcar, what is my credit? What is my credit?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Zero.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Zero. And they are going to put this zero, and they are going to have some big conference. So many people will come and spend money unnecessarily.

Mādhava: They want to make a better human being by making life themselves. They want to make it better.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our proposal, that don't waste time. You are living entities. There are so many living entities. Now try to understand what is your actual constitutional position so that you may become happy and peaceful. This research should be done. Why they are going to waste time in this way, money and time? You can write to the organizer, sponsor of this meeting, that "Why you are foolishly going to waste time like that?" You can say, at least, "My Guru Mahārāja says like this."

Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think if they're trying to create life they want to claim authorship. They want to say, "We did it," but they do not understand that they will...

Prabhupāda: What do they want to claim by creating life?

Dr. Wolf: Authorship. Originators. They want to be...

Prabhupāda: Origin is already there. How you can be originator? Already life is there. How you can be originator? That is your foolishness.

Rūpānuga: They're simply trying to disprove Kṛṣṇa. "If I can do this," they're saying, "if I can create life, then there's no need to postulate a God. I can be God."

Prabhupāda: That means demon.

Morning Walk -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: But you have not known it. You have not known it. You cannot claim that you are advanced. You are still foolish. Why you are claiming advancement? You have not known it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, but they are saying that "In due course of time we are going to know it."

Prabhupāda: Ah, that is another foolishness. That we do not accept. You have not known it till now. You are foolish still. That you have to admit. "In future you will be a rich man, and therefore you give me a post-dated check"—who will accept it? The foolish person will accept it, (laughter) that "I am giving you the check, ten million dollars. You can take it after three million years (laughter) when I shall become rich." It is a proposal like that. No intelligent person will accept that check.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they say that "About two hundred years ago, yes, we were foolish, about two hundred years ago."

Prabhupāda: You are still... Still you are foolish. (laughter) Why are you claiming intelligent? Admit it, that still you are foolish. "We have known the molecules." So what is the benefit of knowing?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because that is a part of our man's inquiry, inquiry to know something. They don't want to be in darkness.

Prabhupāda: The enquiry may be, but whether that enquiry is properly answered, that is the thing. Enquiry there is always. But where is the answer of the enquiry?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The answers, without knowing the goal, remain unanswered. (end)

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Actually that is the position, therefore our business is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa demands that, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Then Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence how to become perfect.

teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ
bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam
dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam...
(BG 10.10)

This is the process. You take instruction from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect. Don't be proud of your paltry knowledge. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement that Kṛṣṇa is perfect and take knowledge from Him—you'll be perfect. That is our proposal.

Guest (1): That we believe in.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are not perfect. We can speculate only and that is not perfection. "Maybe," "perhaps," like that. No definite knowledge. The definite knowledge you can get from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect. Therefore all the ācāryas accept Kṛṣṇa. We have to follow the ācāryas, ācāryopāsanam. So in India all these ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, they accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme absolute. Why you should not? Are you more than these ācāryas? Then? That is the defect of modern education, they manufacture education although they're imperfect. They have no the common sense that "I am imperfect, how I am manufacturing education and becoming teacher. My becoming teacher is cheating because I have no perfect knowledge." Knowledge means it must be perfect, not "maybe," "perhaps." This is not knowledge. Definite knowledge.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. The satisfaction is the point. So just like the head of the family, he is asking his wife to do something, children to do something, servant to do something. So if they are doing according to the order, then it is very nice. The head of the family is satisfied, and everything is going nicely. Anywhere, in office also. There are different officers, secretaries, managers, and the director. He has given: "You do this. You do that. You do that. You do that." So if they do their duty, then everything is nice. Just like in your body. Here also we have got different parts. The hand does something, the leg something, the belly something, the brain something. What the brain does, the leg does not do. But the leg is doing for the satisfaction of the whole body. The brain is doing for the satisfaction of the whole body. Hand is doing for the satisfaction of the whole body. That is required, not that what is brain doing, the leg has to do the same. The leg may do his own way, but the aim is satisfaction of the order of the... I ask the leg, "Please take me from this room to that room." That is leg's duty. I am satisfied. So not that Kṛṣṇa is only one-sided. That they do not understand. Kṛṣṇa is the īśvara, controller of the whole creation. So if He gives you something to do for His satisfaction, you do that. It does not matter whether you are doing the same thing. The same example: Leg is doing something else than the hand, hand is doing something else than the brain, but the real purpose is to satisfy the whole. So Kṛṣṇa is not asking Vyāsadeva to come and fight in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. Vyāsadeva is doing his own work. He is writing literature, Vedavyāsa. He is asking Arjuna to fight. But although the activities are different-Vyāsadeva is writing Vedānta-sūtra, and Arjuna is fighting—but both of them are equally important. Kṛṣṇa says Arjuna, bhakto 'si: "You are My very dear friend," and priyo 'si (BG 4.3), "Therefore I shall speak to you about this Bhagavad-gītā." Kṛṣṇa did not say, "Call Vyāsadeva. I have to speak Bhagavad-gītā. He is learned scholar." No. Arjuna was not a learned scholar; he was a warrior. And he was a gṛhastha, busy in politics. Still, He called Arjuna, "Yes, I shall speak to you Bhagavad-gītā." Why? Bhakto 'si: "You are My devotee." So to become devotee doesn't require that one has to become very big scholar or very rich man. No. Simply you have to agree, "Yes, Sir, what You say I shall do," that's all. This is bhakta. To become bhakta is not very difficult thing. You simply agree, "Kṛṣṇa, what You say, I shall do," that's all. Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). That is, perfection. So Kṛṣṇa wants this. This is the common formula for all. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣu abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). "Anyone who speaks about this Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān pari..., he is very dear to Me." So agree to that proposal, that "We shall speak to everyone about this Bhagavad-gītā as Kṛṣṇa has spoken." Then you become a bhakta. That's all. You can do it in your office. You can do in your home. Kṛṣṇa does not say that "First of all you become a sannyāsī and you change your dress and become like these Kṛṣṇa conscious men." No. You remain in your position. But do this. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Sthāne sthitaḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. You remain in your place, sthane sthitaḥ. Simply you hear from Kṛṣṇa or from Kṛṣṇa's representative and do it, that's all. Where is the difficulty? Boliye.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No. In the past there was winter season. In the present there is winter season. Therefore I can say next January will be winter season. That is nice. But if it is not happened in the past or present, how you can say? That proposition is not accepted. In the past there was birth, death, old age, and disease, in the present there is birth, death, old age, and disease, and in the future there will be birth, death, and old age and disease. This conclusion is all right. In the past there was birth, death, old age, and disease. At the present there is birth, death, and old age, disease. How you can say in the future there will be no birth, no death, no old age...? That proposal is not very sound. You can say whimsically; that is another thing. But factually it is not possible.

Indian man: Guruji, according to the bhakti-yoga, a person starting at least in the elementary way of bhakti-yoga...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian man: In the elementary way, if he starts...

Prabhupāda: What is that elementary way?

Indian man: Half-heartedly.

Prabhupāda: No, no what is that process elementary?

Indian man: In the dvaita way. In the dvaita way, not in the advaita way, assuming that He is different and I am different. That is the elementary way of starting worship.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is always. Why elementary?

Indian man: He is considering in that way.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Realize the Supreme, that is the first and foremost aim, but at the same time, to keep the whole human society in perfect happiness, according to the direction of God. Just like I told you that Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. If you want to keep the living entities, both men and animal, you must arrange for their nice fooding. Who can deny this philosophy? But they are saying that poverty should be removed, and we must acquire food for the suffering and starving. But what they are doing? They are manufacturing motor tire, the rascals.

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) There is no question of dharma. First of all we say they must live. That is our proposal. Where is the question of dharma? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Give everyone to eat sufficiently. This is our proposal.

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Where is the actual attempt to give everyone sufficient food? Where is that attempt? And here in the Bhagavad-gītā it is plainly said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) if you want to keep happy the animals and the men, then produce food grain. Who is doing that? They simply passing resolution and raising funds and then eating, themself, at the cost of others. And therefore the price is increasing. One who has got money, he can pay more price, artificial. I am poor man. I have no money. You have got money. You purchase before me. Then I starve. But if there is sufficient supply of food grain, then this thing will not happen. You can distribute without any price. That was being done in India. Educated man means unemployment, is it not? So-called education means creating unemployment. They will go with application, "Give me some clerical post, some this post, that post, that post." This is education.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So next make this final.

Atreya Ṛṣi: I recommend that you put Brahmānanda Swami's reco..., on the top part, just...

Prabhupāda: Hmmm? What is that?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Brahmānanda Swami's proposals, top portion, we'll just add?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So whatever you make, addition, alteration, make it copied.

Atreya Ṛṣi: And give it to be typed.

Prabhupāda: Don't keep it. Finish one business.

Satsvarūpa: So it's just a matter of typing it, then?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: We can't sign anything now. It's not any...

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, you are... You make some addition, alteration, to that. So make it complete. Then retype and then sign.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Everyone has agreed on what it should be.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Has everyone agreed?

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Madhudviṣa: Well, why don't you read it? Why don't you compose it and then let us all see what it says.

Satsvarūpa: If I can read it out loud... Can I have the other...?

Brahmānanda: We're... Read what the proposal at the top portion...

Madhudviṣa: I give Satsvarūpa the whole thing in that...(?)

Satsvarūpa: All right. So the whole thing, then, would read like... This is a proposal that it should read like this: "I, spiritual name, as initiated disciple, and GBC secretary of His Divine Grace..."

Madhudviṣa: Both names should be there.

Atreya Ṛṣi: No, prabhuji...

Madhudviṣa: Spiritual and, and, and legal name...

Atreya Ṛṣi: It should start with this.

Satsvarūpa: Well, it's not sure what it should start with. That's it.

Madhudviṣa: Both names should be there because a spiritual name is not legal.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: You... You just fill up one copy, as you are doing. So make addition, alteration, your name, your spiritual name, everything complete. So, following that copy, others will do. (?) Is that all right?

Atreya Ṛṣi: I recommend that we keep this one.

Prabhupāda: Or you can make... Anyone, you can take.

Atreya Ṛṣi: In this shape.

Prabhupāda: You, you can make addition, alteration, everything, and read it complete. Then take that proposal. That's all.

Jayatīrtha: So maybe, Atreya Ṛṣi, you can write out a final draft of it...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: ...including both things, and then you can read it to everyone.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Where's Brahmānanda Swami?

Jayatīrtha: Is that all right? Should we go on while he's writing?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: We can go on.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: The main purpose of these points is simply to try to put it down in writing what the GBC man can do himself, what things he requires—the whole group—what things he requires to consult with others on, in this way, so there won't be any question "What I can do, what I can't do." Is that all right?

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Jayatīrtha: So the agenda for the GBC meeting to decide on... First of all, Jagadīśa has made one proposal for financing Gurukula, if it has to be discussed.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Financing?

Jayatīrtha: Gurukula is having some serious financial difficulties. So Jagadīśa has made a proposal, which we'll discuss.

Prabhupāda: So everyone's son is there, all devotees' son. So from every center some contribution should be given to the Gurukula.

Jayatīrtha: Jaya. That was my proposal. That becomes a kind of tax.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: In a sense, it's like a school tax.

Prabhupāda: But, at the same time, it should be examined how Gurukula is spending money.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. Jagadīśa has made a complete report.

Prabhupāda: Not unnecessarily spending. That is the duty of the GBC.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, about this tax, about this money to be taken from each temple. Gurukula is one of the projects. For example, there may be another project...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...that Your Divine Grace and group, when you travel, there needs to be also... Every temple should contribute to that as well.

Prabhupāda: Well, if every temple cannot contribute, I shall manage from the BBT fund. That is not a problem.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Rūpānuga: Does that, does that... What about those temples that don't have any children there in Gurukula. Because it seems that the problem is not just that... There are people besides devotees who are not paying...

Prabhupāda: No, they can give.(?)

Jagadīśa: That's part of the proposal. Why not discuss in relationship to the proposal.

Jayatīrtha: Right. We have the whole proposal. Everyone has a copy, I think. So we can discuss that. The main point, I'm just saying now, is to read through the agenda and see if Prabhupāda approves that we're talking about these things, and then..., because these things are so detailed, and we have some proposals in writing. We can discuss them more. Anyway, so one proposal is Gurukula finance. Another proposal is Brahmānanda's made some proposals about Africa, specifically manpower to be sent to Africa. Another proposal... another thing is to discuss the BBT, BBT loans, moving of the Press, several points about BBT, lowering of the prices, these things...

Prabhupāda: So what is the advantage of moving the Press?

Jayatīrtha: That Ramesvara should be here to say.

Prabhupāda: Call (?) Ramesvara. If you be..., all GBC agrees, then you do that.

Jayatīrtha: All right. So if we have a separate meeting, and Ramesvara presents his proposals nicely, and everyone agrees, then we can...

Prabhupāda: You consider, and then you decide.

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: He does not take. He does not take willingly.

Sister: That's what I mean, yeah. There's a lot of people that just don't even know He exists.

Prabhupāda: But if he takes, he has the potentiality. If you agree... Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). If you agree to Kṛṣṇa's proposal, then you will, that potentiality is manifested.

Sister: But what about people that are never exposed to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Then he will suffer. He will constantly change his body one after another, sometimes good body, sometimes bad body, and he will suffer. So as soon as you accept a material body, you will suffer. It may be good body or bad body. It doesn't matter. Suffering is there. When a dog is taking birth, he has to take the suffering within the womb of his mother, and when a human man, human body is coming out, he has also to take the... It is not joke to remain ten months within the packed-up abdomen of the mother. Is it very pleasant, do you think? If you are kept in that way now, you will die within three seconds. In that condition you have to live ten months. So how much suffering it was!

Mother: Suffering for whom?

Prabhupāda: Suffering for the man who is taking birth. Sometimes now they are killing. The mother is killing. The time is coming so bad that mother is killing child.

Sister: What about like euthanasia, say. Isn't that nonacceptance of a material body? If by some, for some reason the child isn't allowed to be born?

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise you are not coming. Our main business is to make him Kṛṣṇa conscious. Where you have left my that overcoat?

Śrutakīrti: That is in London. (pause)

Prabhupāda: (break) How they will serve? The proposal...(break) that how... (break) ...they have disco... (break) They have discovered so many machine, so many factories, so many... So how they will relieve the mankind? This proposal Vivekananda used, to serve the mankind. How they will serve? In spite of all arrangement there are so many suffering humanity, so many unemployment, so much disease, so much death. So what is the meaning of this serving? Huh? You cannot stop it. That is the nature's way. How you can stop by so-called bluffing that "We are serving the humanity"? You are opening hospital. Does it mean that the suffering is reduced? Because the suffering has increased therefore your number of hospitals have increased. Where is the mitigation? Nature's way, we are feeling pain, this cold wind. Who can stop it? And where is the question of decreasing human's suffering or stopping?

Amogha: By our technological inventions we can make a heater that makes the coldness...

Prabhupāda: But the heater is not curing the suffering.

Amogha: But it makes us warm.

Prabhupāda: But a heater, how many men will get heater?

Amogha: Well, we can make them cheaply so that practically everyone...

Prabhupāda: You can, but you do not, neither you can.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Even if you take care, what is the result? You have to increase hospitals.

Paramahaṁsa: Well, that's cause the population is increasing.

Prabhupāda: That is not the fact.

Amogha: Just like in Australia.

Prabhupāda: No, therefore your proposal is failure. You increase your, what is called, amenities?

Amogha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The population increases. The proportion remains the same.

Śrutakīrti: But we're taking care of them.

Amogha: At least we're helping them.

Prabhupāda: No, you are taking care of them, but the population increasing, therefore you cannot take care of every one of them.

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, yes, because we increase our hospitals therefore we can...

Prabhupāda: Ah, you are increasing and population increasing, that's all.

Paramahaṁsa: And then we keep increasing according to the population.

Prabhupāda: Then go on struggling. That is struggling. There is no question of decreasing. Proportionate. Proportionately, you increase the amenities, and proportionately the distress increases.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: If they stop, then they are failure.

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah. And then everyone will complain, "Oh, you wasted billions of dollars."

Prabhupāda: And if they go, then they will have the right information. But they will never be able to go.

Devotee (1): Just like Rāvaṇa could not reach the heavenly planets just by building the staircase.

Prabhupāda: That was his only demonic proposal, that "We make staircase." He said that "Why you are undergoing so much austerities to go to the heavenly planets? I shall make a staircase. You will go."

Amogha: How high did he make it?

Prabhupāda: He never attempted. He simply bluffed, that's all. So demons' proposals are like that. Therefore it is a common say in, hearsay in the, in India, that rāvaṇe sarge sini(?): "The proposal is just like Rāvaṇa proposed to make a staircase to the heavenly planets." He was also very much advanced materially, very prosperous materially. Gold was very common thing. He brought gold from Brazil through the subway. His brother was king there, in southern America.

Amogha: Kumbhakarṇa?

Prabhupāda: No, Mahīrāvaṇa. Mahī, mahī means the earth. He used to go through the subway, through the earth. So other side there was another Rāvaṇa. That is Mahīrāvaṇa.

Devotee (1): He built the subway?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The subway is still there, Brazil. Somebody said?

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: God is not order-supplier. Otherwise everyone is praying. Just like in the last war, everyone went to church and prayed for saving the life... mostly woman, because all men in Germany especially, everywhere, they went to the war front. So all the women, they went to the church for praying for their husband, for their brother or father. But nobody came back. And later on, they became atheist: "Oh, there is no God." Because God did not supply their order, therefore there is no God. "If God agrees to my proposal and He supplies things as I want, then there is God. Otherwise there is no God." That means God is under my condition. This is going on.

Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was one song written where the writer said that the reason the Americans won the war was because God is on their side.

Prabhupāda: So, that is the fact. Unless God desired, how they can win? That, we admit that.

Hari-śauri: But now they are again becoming a mouse, the Americans? Now they are losing the favor of God?

Prabhupāda: No, they are right officially: "We trust in God." (break) ...the whole, I think, Americans are fortunate because this saṅkīrtana movement is there. Yes. If they take it more seriously, they will be actually favored nation of the Lord.

Hari-śauri: At the present moment it seems that the Communist movement seems to be taking over more and more countries.

Prabhupāda: They will take because people are becoming godless. That is the defect. People are becoming hippies, godless. This material world is full of miseries because most people are godless. Here... Material world means avoiding God. That is the sum and substance of material world. They are trying to avoid, becoming independent of God. That is their endeavor. The scientist, the philosopher, the politician—everyone is trying that. Therefore they are suffering. Māyā is there. Just like a criminal, if he says "I don't care for government," the police will take care of. That is certain.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...haven't gone to moon planet, that is my... (break) ...why they will give it up? That is the proof. America was found by Columbus. So many people came from Europe and utilized it. So if they would have gone to moon planet, they would have utilized it. But they have not gone. That is the fact.

Paramahaṁsa: That was their original proposal, that they can utilize it, make colonies there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes.

Devotee (3): The moon exploration, because they thought that we cannot use the moon like Columbus, they used America.

Prabhupāda: That is your excuse.

Paramahaṁsa: They say it's too much like the desert.

Harikeśa: That's cause they were in the desert. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: (break) ...grow so many nice dates, you know that? You cannot say in the desert there is no...

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, yes. Arabia they grow.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (break) ...desert nice watermelon will grow. Yes. Nice dates. So people go there, take the dates and take the watermelon. Kṛṣṇa has provided food even there. (break)

Harikeśa: Would one see gross form on a subtle planet?

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ādau-mātā, real mother, and guru-patnī, the wife of guru or teacher, she is also mother 'cause teacher is father. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brahmaṇi, the wife of a brāhmaṇa. She is mother. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhm..., rāja-patnikā, the queen, the wife of the king. She is mother. And then cow is mother because you are drinking her milk. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brahmaṇi rāja-patnikā, dhenur dhatrī, nurse. Nurse is also mother because you suck the breast of the nurse. Therefore according to Vedic civilization, there are seven mothers. So you cannot kill your mother. That is not very good philosophy. And who can deny, "The cow is not mother"? Who has got this audacity? You are drinking milk in the very morning. Christ says, "Thou shall not kill?—wholesale killing stop." And the Vedic literature is little liberal. It does not say, "Thou shall not kill," but, "You shall not kill at least cow." But the wholesale stop is not possible. The Vedic wisdom knows that. But you shall not kill at least cow. That is civilization. And the Christians are maintaining thousands of slaughterhouse. Is that very good proposal?

Dr. Pore: Are you saying that you should never kill a cow but that you sometimes can kill a person?

Prabhupāda: When you can give life. There is sometimes cow sacrifice yajña. The cow sacrifice yajña means an old cow, he is sacrificed in the fire, and by Vedic hymns he is given again new life. To test the potency of the Vedic mantra, an old cow is sacrificed and by mantra he is given again new life. Not for killing and eating. That was discussed between Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Chand Kazi, Mohammedan magistrate. Those who have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta will find. So the Kazi was challenged by Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "You are killing cow and bulls. What is your religion? You are killing your father and mother." Then, he also was learned man, he said it that "In your Vedas the cow sacrifice yajña is there." Then He explained, "This sacrifice is not for eating. It is giving a new life. To test the Vedic mantra." That is discussed in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. That is a different case. For meat-eating a cow should not be killed. This is not very good civilization. If you are..., you must eat meat, then you can kill other animals. They, those who are the kṣatriyas, they were sometimes going to the forest, killing the deer.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are rich man's son, Kṛṣṇa's son. Why shall I work? That is the nature. A rich man's son never works. He enjoys. We are dancing and taking nice prasādam. Why shall I work? What do you think? Poor man will work. Rich man, why they will work? He will enjoy. Kṛṣṇa says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor of all planets, and we are servants of Kṛṣṇa, a rich man's servant. Why shall I work so hard? The ass will work hard, not a human being. And that is the instruction of Rsabhādeva. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This human life is not meant for working so hard simply for food and sex enjoyment. That is the business of the hogs. The hogs do like that. They work day and night to find out some stool, and as soon as a little strength, he enjoys sex without discrimination, mother, sister, anybody. Is that life? Tell them, "You are working like hogs, and we are living like human being. That is the difference." If somebody does not work like hog, does it mean he is escaping? (laughter) Just see. And the hog is asking to work like hog. Why human being will accept this proposal? Marshall theory. I was student of economics. He says the human nature is, unless he has got some obligation he will not work. That is the beginning of economics. If one has got sufficient to eat, he will not work. When he is obliged to work for some reason, he works hard. That is the economic theory. So nature is... It is not escaping. If I have got sufficient to eat, why shall I work? What is the answer? This is not escaping, it is comfortable life, not to work and get everything, all necessities. That is comfort. And working hard getting the necessities, that is for the hogs and dogs, not for human being.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that possibility is always there. But my proposal is that if you are not true Christian, then your preaching will not be effective. I don't say that now we are strictly following and we will not fall down in future. I don't say that. That fall down propensity, tendency is always there. But my proposal is that unless one is strictly follower of the principles, his preaching will not be effective. That is my charge.

Lt. Mozee: Yes. Well sir, again I thank you for your time. I thank you for this interview. And I thank you for the opportunity to find out more about the group that is Hare Kṛṣṇa. And I will deliver this tape recording to my superiors. Hopefully, hopefully it will be effective...

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Lt. Mozee: ...as you are effective.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Prasādam. No, give him more. (laughter)

Lt. Mozee: This is what?

Upendra: Sandeśa.

Jayatīrtha: Made from milk.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So we recommend everyone, every American, being initiated. That is our recommendation. The sooner you accept this proposal, it is good for you. To know God and to love Him, is there any difficulty? Do you think nobody is interested in this? If one is not interested to know God, then he is a dog. The dog is not interested. That is the difference between human being and dog. The dog cannot be interested. But a human being has... I am a foreigner. I came alone. But these boys became interested. Why not others? Where is the difference? Your son is interested. Why the father is not interested? Why? What is the reason?

Mother: He says Paul is interested and you're not. What is the reason? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: He has already explained. What is that? Your father admitted just now? He said?

Devotee: That he is not happy?

Prabhupāda: No, another thing.

Devotee: He said he was a person... (laughter)

Father: According to the rules, I gotta be interested.

Sandy Nixon: As least you're laughing at yourself, right?

Father: Yeah, right.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: What is the position of the cells when the man dies?

Svaupa Dāmodara: The cells are dead. The cells that compose the body, they are dead. There are may be new living entities coming from different parts, but the cell that composed the human body is dead. They cannot reproduce anymore.

Prabhupāda: So what is your proposal? That cell is life?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So can you develop life from the cells? As you said that you take the skin and you keep, so take the cells and develop into life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's called culturing of the cells. They can culture it.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Whether you have done it.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Well, they have that process called cloning?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, no, this is the culture. That means take a cell from a living tissue, and you culture it and you supply the sufficient nutrients. Then theoretically they will grow forever. They will divide. They will...

Prabhupāda: So they will grow to a human being?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Not a human being, but the cells just divide.

Prabhupāda: Then an ant, an ant?

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Dharmādhyakṣa: This inventor of the hydrogen bomb, he said he had no regrets about making the bomb. He had no regrets about his career whatsoever. And he felt that science was still the answer to man's problems. That's why he was lamenting so much that people were not interested anymore.

Prabhupāda: So what is the problem? Real problem is birth, death. So have you any proposal?

Dharmādhyakṣa: No, he has no proposal for those.

Prabhupāda: Then what is this nonsense problem? So far eating, sleeping, even the birds and beasts, they have no problem. They are eating, sleeping. What is this problem in eating, sleeping and mating? There is no problem. Why you are creating problem? You are creating problem, rascal. There is no problem. Where is the... Out of 8,400,000 species, only men are 400,000. Eight million they are all lower animals. Where is their problem? They have no population problem, they have no food problem, no quarter problem. They do not go to office, they do not start factories. So where is their problem? Eight millions, they have no problem. And out of the 400,000, the so-called rascal civilized men, they have problems. Others they have no problem. They don't require a scientist rascal like you. (laughter) This is the... Tell them like this. If you take vox populi, so out of eight million four hundred, eight millions do not require a rascal like you. And out of the so-called civilized men, a few only, they require your service. So what is the value of your service? Others, they have no problem. Do you think they have problem, the birds and beasts? They are very freely walking from one tree to another and eating. Whatever fruits are there, they are eating. And the for mating, the female bird is always with him. Nature has given, when the birth is taken place, one male, one female, cats, dogs and birds. So there is no problem. Is there any problem?

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Because whatever you do, death will come and take it. So where is guarantee that you will enjoy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Relatively we can enjoy.

Prabhupāda: Relatively everyone... The ant also thinking, "I am also some important..." That is Kṛṣṇa's proposal, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). You are trying to get out of all kinds of miserable conditions, but here is your real misery, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi: birth, death, old age... First of all conquer them. Then talk of advance. You cannot conquer even on disease. There are so many persons suffering from disease. You cannot stop it, and you're making progress? What is that progress? It is all rascaldom.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we see that even your devotees, they are also subject to birth, death, disease and old age.

Prabhupāda: No, we do not say that we are making progress like you. We are trying to make spiritual progress. We are servant of God. We never say that we are very big men, Vaiṣṇava. Tṛṇād api sunīcena. We think most insignificant creature.

Paramahaṁsa: But what of our efforts to conquer cancer and tuberculosis?

Prabhupāda: No. Because we are conquering to... We are trying to avoid death. Then it is... Everything is cured. Cancer, cancer's father, grandfather, everything is cured. So we are trying for that. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "If you simply understand Me..." Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Simply if you understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why He comes, what is the purpose, then you become conqueror over death. That is our philosophy. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is our progress, how much we have understood Kṛṣṇa. And when one understands fully Kṛṣṇa-fully it is not possible; at least partially—he is conquering over death. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is real human life, how to conquer over death. Aihiṣṭhaṁ yat tat punar-janma-jāyāya. All the great sages and big, big kings, they left everything, went to the forest for austerity, penance. Why? To conquer over death. That is the mission. That... Everyone can do that, human life. And that is plainly explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Simply try to understand Me and you conquer over death." Simple thing.

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...no need of creating water. You have no such intelligence. Just like the Arabian desert is there; Arabian Sea is there. Why don't you utilize this water? Instead of bluffing others that "We can create water," why don't you use this water and make the desert fertile? (break) ...create a little water in the test tube, so you take that credit. Why you want to take the credit of creating a Pacific Ocean? That is our protest. You are able to create one ounce of water in the test tube. That's all right, miracle done. But we say that one who has created the Pacific Ocean, how much credit he will be given. That is our proposal. You take test tube credit, but you must give Pacific credit to God. That is wanted. But creating test tube water, you want to take the Pacific credit. Is that very nice proposal? (break) ...spoken by one scientist in our Delhi meeting. Who were present in the Delhi meeting?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was.

Prabhupāda: That scientist's name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Atmaram.

Prabhupāda: Dr. Atmaram, that "We have simply learned how to bark like dog, but we don't care so many dogs are already barking." He admitted that if a man learns how to bark, people will purchase ticket and see him, and so many thousands of dogs, dog, are barking—nobody cares. This is scientist. You learn how to bark, imitate the dog, and you become important man. You have create one third fruit by mixing peach and plum, and one who is creating millions and trillions of fruits that is lying on the floor—nobody cares for that—he has no credit. These rascals wants credit for this most insignificant...

Satsvarūpa: They say their barking is an improvement on the original dog.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: But everyone wants sunshine. Why in one place denied, and one place there is sunshine? You are not free. Even though you want sunshine, there is no sunshine. So how you feel free? You bring sunshine. But that is not happening. There is superior arrangement. So to accept that superior arrangement, that is real business, not to declare freedom falsely. That is not possible. If I say, "I am free from the law-abiding process, law given by government; I am free from the law of the government," that is not possible. If you become outlaw, then you will be arrested and put into jail. So what is the use of declaring that "I am free from the government laws"? There is no freedom. Whatever little freedom is given to us, if you utilize it properly, that is very nice. If we unnecessarily declare that "I am free from any obligation," that is madman's proposal. That is the mistake of the modern man, that, especially in the Western countries, unnecessarily they are declaring freedom in so many ways. Unnecessarily. He is not free, but he is declaring. That is described in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, I think, or in some other. No? Prema-vivarta. Yes, there is a book, Prema-vivarta

piśācī paile yena mati-cchanna haya
māyā-grasta jīvera se daśā upajāya

The freedom is declared by persons who are completely under the clutches of māyā. He declares freedom. And he is so much haunted by the ghost māyā that he thinks his bondage as freedom. Just like a drug-addicted person or drunkard. He is thinking, "I am free." He lies down on the street sometimes in madness: "Who can forbid me?" You have seen madmen lying on the street... I have seen it, all traffic stopped. So this kind of freedom has no meaning. It is involving oneself with the strict laws of māyā. There is no freedom. And just like a child. If he becomes free from the parents, it is not good; it is dangerous. His life is at risk. If a child without the help of the parents go on the street, is... That freedom is nice? That kind of freedom. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "Whatever little freedom you have got, just surrender that freedom to Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ (BG 18.66). (to someone:) You can come forward.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: No, you must give your opinion. (laughter) You are learned scholars. Our philosophy is that we cannot possess, cannot renounce. So what do you think about it?

Mr. Surface: I'm not quite sure what that means precisely.

Prabhupāda: Just like this table belongs to somebody else. How can I possess it? And if the table belongs to somebody else, how can I renounce it? Renouncing means if I possess something. But if you have nothing to possess, where is the question of renouncing? And if the things belongs to somebody else, how can I possess it? This is my proposal. You cannot possess other things. And then you will be thief. If I possess other's possession, then I am thief. And if I renounce, then I am false renouncer, but I did not possess anything. So where is the question of possession and renouncing come? But the whole world is struggling. Some group is struggling for possessing, which is called economic development, and some group is trying to renounce it. Just like a rich man's son. Without any, his labor, he possesses the father's immense property. He wants to renounce it. And the poor man is trying to possess it. These two classes of men are working. One is trying to possess, and the other is trying to renounce. There is no other third group.

Ṛṣi-kumāra: What about those who are just possessing enough to maintain their bodies?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Body is maintained by the birds and beasts. The worms, ants, they also maintaining body, but they do not possess anything. So therefore, natural law is that without possessing, you can maintain yourself.

Ṛṣi-kumāra: You have to possess some food and some shelter.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Both means?

Mr. Surface: For the two.

Jayatīrtha: Both economic development and spiritual advancement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can... Actually there is no need of economic development. But if you think it is required, you can do that. But don't forget your real business. That is our proposal. We don't condemn, but economic development... Just like in America. When I did not come here... Of course, I know that everywhere everything is there. But I thought that "America is very rich, there is no poverty. There is no crime because they are rich." But when I came here I saw everything is the..., as in India so in America. There is crime; there is poverty; everything is there. At least, they are voluntarily accepting poverty, just like hippies. Most of them are coming from rich family, rich father. But he has volunteered to lie down on the street. Why? Why he doesn't care for economic development?

Mr. Surface: Maybe he's had too much.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, but that we see in India. On account of poverty, many men are lying on the footpath. And here also, in Europe, America, we see. Although he is coming from rich family, government is rich, government is endeavoring to take them back to nice place, they will not go. So these three classes of men-rich, middle class and poor—everywhere, either it is rich country or poor country. Then we have to accept: by nature it is so arranged that these three classes of men will exist. Then the question is "Where is the benefit of economic development?" If these three classes of men will exist anywhere, so where is the use of economic development? Even one is placed in developed economic condition, rich family, rich, he is accepting poverty voluntarily. And there is a big park in Amsterdam, that... You have been there?

Car Conversation -- August 3, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: That means they are commanding.

Brahmānanda: Recently one famous author came to America. He was a freedom fighter, freedom author.

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda knows about him.

Jagadīśa: Solzhenitsyn.

Brahmānanda: Solzhenitsyn. Did you see him when you went to Moscow? Śyāmasundara was saying.

Prabhupāda: No. There was proposal.

Brahmānanda: He talks so much, Śyāmasundara. He told a whole story, that you went outside Moscow to some colony, artist colony. He was living there.

Prabhupāda: I think Śyāmasundara went to see him.

Brahmānanda: Oh. Anyway, he came to America, but President Ford refused to see him.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Brahmānanda: Because he was afraid. He was advised by Kissinger that "If you see him, then the Russian leaders, they will become angry upon you." So he refused to see him. So this received a great deal of criticism in America, that "We are for freedom and here he is coming, freedom fighter, and you refused to see him simply to pacify the Russian leaders." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...was a fault?

Satsvarūpa: His fault is that he spoke out against the whole Russian...

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: You do not know?

Indian Man (2): Some ji(?), they make it like that and this and that. They make the fool people. How can we convince that something, that knowledge is there. But they want immediate to know it to believe it.

Prabhupāda: That is their rascaldom. One wants to be learned without going to the school. Is it possible? So they are rascals. What can be done? They don't want to go to school and take the training, and they want to pass M.A. examination. This is their proposal. So these rascals should be kicked out. That's all.

(break) ...is: tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena (BG 4.34). First of all you surrender; then you ask question. The rascals first of all will question. And when he is satisfied, they will surrender. This is not the process. The process is first of all surrender; then question. Otherwise you have no right to question, waste time. (break) ...is the sinful part of water. This is sinful part. There is sinful water and pious water also. So this water is sinful. Drinking of this water is prohibited.

Harikeśa: In America they use maple syrup a lot, maple syrup. Is that also part of the sinful reaction for the trees? Yes.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...eḥ?

Viśvakarma: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Only fuel. They are called fuel. They are meant for using as fuel. (break)

Viśvakarma: ...Ontario, Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is known as the fruit belt, in this area. But now they are ripping up all the orchards and putting in factories.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is trying for peace in the world. I have already referred to the United Nations organization. They are also trying peace of the world. But one must know the right way how to bring peace in the world. So our proposition is that if you keep the human being as good as animal, then how there can be peace? There cannot be any peace among animal society. (aside:) Aiye. Let him... Jaya. This is our proposal. So we are bringing these Europeans, Americans, Africans, Canadians, Australians to this platform of understanding, that "We are human being; we are not animals." The... First I have already explained. So long we shall remain in the bodily concept of life, then we remain animal.

Guest (2) (Indian man): What was the necessity of creating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?

Prabhupāda: Necessity is that the human form of life is meant for advanced education. Unfortunately, they are being educated to live like animals. That is the mistake. So we want to correct this mistake.

Guest (2): But the spiritual organizations in India, all the spiritual teachings in India, have always put great emphasis on the fact that we are spiritual beings. So what was the necessity of creating another movement to say the same things?

Prabhupāda: No. We are... You have brought in the question of India. We are talking of the human society, so why you are bringing India? We are not talking about India only. Human being does not mean only Indian. You see, human being—all, outside India, inside India, everywhere. Wherever there is human being, they require this education. And it is the India's duty. Because India has got the opportunity to be spiritually advanced by the grace of learned, saintly persons, so they should first of all make their life perfect by taking education and distribute the knowledge throughout the whole world. That is India's mission. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that...

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: And who are you? Then I can say also, "You hear me. Forget about Bible." Anyone can say. Why the priest? Wherefrom the priest has come? Has he dropped from the sky? (laughter) That's it. Everyone can say, "My dear priest, you hear me. Don't talk of yourself. You hear me." Everyone can say. Then? How things will be adjusted? The priest is also a man; I am also man. If he can say like that, I can say like that. Then who will make adjustment? Who is correct? Hm? How it will be adjusted? If everyone will propose something, and who will say, "Now, out of so many proposals, this is correct." That means chaotic condition. If everyone says, "What I say, you hear." Then who will hear? Everyone will say only. Who will hear? That is going on actually. And rascal Vivekananda says, "Everyone's opinion is good."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yathā mat tathā path.

Prabhupāda: Yathā mat tathā path. This is going on. Everyone will say something, and it is all right. However nonsense it may be, it is all right. Even Gandhi followed that philosophy. Therefore he invented one, another philosophy, nonviolence, which is impossible. When Hindus approached him, that "You have got so much influence over the Mohammedans, so why not stop cow killing?" he said, "It is their religious principle. How can I interfere?" Just see.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa orders in Bhagavad-gītā, go-rakṣya.

Prabhupāda: And he is considered to be a great scholar in Bhagavad-gītā, and when cow protection was requested, he said that "How can I do it? It is their religious principle." And he is a great big scholar in Bhagavad-gītā. All nonsense, going on. Whole world is full of nonsense, mūḍhas, beginning from Gandhi to any rascal, all of them, rascals. Perhaps it is the first time we are detecting, "Here are all rascals." It is first time. Then we are enemy of everyone. We call everyone rascal-Gandhi rascal, Vivekananda rascal, Aurobindo rascal. So actually they are, but people are thinking, "These people say all big, big men rascals? Therefore they are rascals."

Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do saṅkīrtana. The villagers will join.

Guest (1): But at the same time, if we collect all the people together and put it in place and talk to them every day, continually for seven days or eight days...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It is possible. These are all practical proposals. There is nothing impossibility.

Guest (1): Yes. Don't you think so, Swamijī? I have proposed...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Paṇḍāls?

Guest (1): Yes. We may build paṇḍāls also. That will be... Because...

Prabhupāda: Paṇḍāl or no paṇḍāl. You can sit on open place. There is no harm.

Cyavana: We can build a paṇḍāl in one day and put up.

Prabhupāda: In villages we can sit down underneath a tree. That is paṇḍāl. Why should you unnecessarily spend money? Just cleanse the ground and sit down. That's all. Makes everything simplified.

Guest (1): If it's raining there, Swamijī. Rainy days.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Rainy day.

Guest (1): For that we need paṇḍāls.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Purport: People in general are not very intelligent, and due to their ignorance they are most attached to the fruitive activities recommended in the karma-kāṇḍa portion of the Vedas. They do not want anything more than sense gratificatory proposals for enjoying life in heaven, where wine and women are available and material opulence is very common. In the Vedas many sacrifices are recommended for elevation to the heavenly planets, especially the jyotiṣṭoma sacrifices. In fact, it is stated that anyone desiring elevation to heavenly planets must perform these sacrifices, and men with a poor fund of knowledge think that this is the whole purpose of Vedic wisdom. It is very difficult for such inexperienced persons to be situated in the determined action of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As fools are attached to the flowers of poisonous trees without knowing the results of such attractions, similarly unenlightened men are attracted by such heavenly opulence and the sense enjoyment thereof. In the karma-kāṇḍa section of the Vedas it is said that those who perform the four monthly penances become eligible to drink the somarasa beverages to become immortal and happy forever. Even on this earth some are very eager to have somarasa to become strong and fit to enjoy sense gratifications. Such persons have no faith in liberation from material bondage, and they are very much attached to the pompous ceremonies of Vedic sacrifices. They are generally sensual, and they do not want anything other than the heavenly pleasures of life. It is understood that there are gardens called nandana-kanana, in which there is good opportunity for association with angelic, beautiful women and having a profuse supply of somarasa wine. Such bodily happiness is certainly sensual. Therefore there are those who are purely attached to material temporary happiness as lords of the material world."

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Incubator. Put it there. Then we shall accept your science. Why don’t you do that? Then your all theories are useless. This is practical.

Harikeśa: It seems much more practical to make a computer than to make an egg. I mean, a computer…

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, do it. And from that egg, you get chicken. Then I shall accept that you are scientist. Otherwise you are rascal, talking all madman's proposal. Do it. Ask them. Write in the paper that "Prabhupāda was speaking like that, a challenge to the scientist: "Is there any scientist who can make an egg which is put in the incubator and gradually it comes to become …""

Harikeśa: They will think we are completely crazy.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Well, then kick on their face, on their nose, rascal. We are crazy or you are crazy?

Harikeśa: But who wants to make eggs?

Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no, it is an experiment. You say life comes from chemical. So by chemical combination make an egg and do it. Begin from this. Then we shall see others. This is very easy. If you have already analyzed the yellow portion of the egg, the white portion of the egg and that outer plastering can be done. Nowadays there is… What is called?

Harikeśa: Plastic.

Prabhupāda: Plastic. It can be done. Do it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Make a chicken.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Possess, you can possess. Tena tyaktena bhuñjithā (ISO 1). The real proposal is that everything belongs to God. Then God's representative, king, he gives you land. But you require for ten men's foodstuff. You calculate the ten men's foodstuff, for producing, you require so much land, so the king gives you land. You work and grow your food. And because it is God's property, you give some tax. Whatever you produce, twenty-five percent give to God or king, and balance, you enjoy. If there is no production—no tax. This is peaceful life. You work. You take land, God's land. You cannot... Why you have occupied so much land? Others, they are not allowed to enter; where there is overpopulation? How you can expect peace? Just like in China and India and other places they're overpopulation. Why don't you allow them, that "In Africa there is no sufficient population. Please come and toil and grow your food and live peacefully"? Where is that formula? Rascals, they are wanting peace. All rascal, rogues. And why they have become rascal, rogues? For want of God consciousness. They do not know that it is God's property, falsely thinking, "My property." And today I am thinking, "My property," and next day I become a dog on the same property. Hm? This dog loitering, who can say he was not formerly a Mr. Smuts? Who can say? Maybe he was Smuts; now he is dog. How can you take him? This is nature's process. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). After death you'll have to accept another body. Now who can guarantee that General Smuts did not accept a dog's body? Who can guarantee? Where is the science? You think that he is dead and gone, but Kṛṣṇa does not say like that. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Now what kind of body he has got? Where is the scientist to ascertain that "Mr., General Smuts has got now this body. He is living here"? Where is the science? You simply see like a fool and rascal, "My father is gone." Where your father gone? Where did he live so long? Why did you not see him? Where is the science? He is simply crying like a child, "My father is gone." Where he has gone? Find him out. And what he was? Why did you not see so long? This is their knowledge.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if the basic principle is wrong, then all their plans for becoming happy is also wrong. So he does not know what is the important factor. So when he comes to know that he is not this body, he is spirit soul—he studies what is the nature of the spirit soul, what is the necessity of the spirit soul—then he becomes happy. If he is under misconception... Suppose if I take you, Mr. Singer, as the coat, and I take care of the coat and not of you, person, then is that very good proposal? So that is going on. They are taking care of the shirt and coat, not the person who is putting on the shirt and coat. This is the mistake of the modern civilization. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an attempt to correct it, not theoretically, but by scientifically, by philosophically, economically, religiously, everything. Therefore we have got so many books. We are trying to distribute, enlighten people. This is our business. Then people will be happy. Unless one who knows "what I am, and what is my business, what is my aim of life," then how he can be happy? Just like a dog is jumping here and there, here and there, but he does not know what is the aim of life, so if we do not come to the spiritual platform, that we remain animal like cats and dogs, then what is the civilization of cats and dogs? If you keep the dogs as dog and if you ask some of them to come together and make a peace formula, is it possible the dogs will be able to make any peace formula? Because they are dogs, they will go on barking. That's all. So we are attempting so many peace formula, but we are keeping the consciousness on the body, exactly like the dog. And therefore there is no peace. There cannot be any peace. First of all you must come to the real platform, the living force, what is that spirit soul, what is the necessity, what is the aim. That you do not know.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And even if you prolong life, how long you'll prolong? There are trees. They are thousand times prolonging than your life. In... What is called? San Francisco, the Golden...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Redwood trees.

Prabhupāda: Redwood trees. One redwood, already seven thousand years old, they told me. So what is the benefit, seven thousand years standing in one place, very long? Hm? What is the benefit? You are trying to prolong life. Very good idea. But what is the use of prolonging life while suffering? One side, you are trying to prolong life; the other side, for acute suffering, one is committing suicide. So why this contradictory proposal?

Harikeśa: Well, only some people commit suicide. As far as I'm concerned, I'm very happy. I have my car, my air conditioner...

Prabhupāda: That means you are fool number one. That means you are fool number one. As soon as you say, "I am happy," it is immediately proved that you are a rascal, fool number one.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But everyone is afraid of death. They don't like the idea of dying. Put if off.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore, you cure that first of all; then prolong life that there will be no death. Then you prolong life is... Make some understand. Can go this side?

Harikeśa: So it's not possible that anyone's happy? There is no possibility of anyone being happy.

Prabhupāda: No. One who thinks he is happy, he is number one fool.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Everyone is searching after material happiness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But there is no happiness.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is... Rascals and fools will that: "I'll not die. Tomorrow I shall die. (laughter) Tomorrow." This is rascal. These things will be done by the rascals. "I'll not die today. I'll die tomorrow." This is rascaldom.

Indian man: About religion, Swamijī. Religion is capable to stop death?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here the... Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That is our proposal, to go back to home, back to Godhead. No more death.

Indian man: After death no death?

Prabhupāda: No death.

Indian man: Okay, then, Swamijī, we should...

Prabhupāda: "After death" means we have got this body; we'll have to leave it. That is certain. But after leaving this body, you are not going to get another body which will die. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If they can manufacture some medicine that "You have suffered from diseases. Now you take this medicine—no more disease," then there is credit, no more disease. But there is no guarantee.

Indian man: One kind of disease.

Prabhupāda: One kind or another kind, disease is disease. Disease is disease. It is foolish for the person to think, "If I would have gotten that disease, it was better for me." This is foolish, another foolishness. Disease is disease. Disease means suffering. You have to suffer, that's all, this disease or that disease.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. But if you do not know what is God's name, then what you will chant? What you will chant? Then you chant Kṛṣṇa. We know it is God's name. Take. Take to our principle. If there is no medical college, come to our medical college. You are welcome. Why you are envious? You have no medical college; at the same time, you are envious of my medical college. Why? Why this nonsense? If you want to learn medical science—you have no medical science, college-come here. This is our proposal. Why you are envious? That means rascal. "Our gold." Gold is "our gold," everyone's gold? "Our gold." What do you mean, "our gold"? Gold is always gold, either in your hand or in my hand. In your hand it is not Christian gold and in my hand it is not Hindu gold. Gold is gold.

nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija sarva śaktis
tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ
etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavān mamāpi
durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ

In the Bible there is no specific name of God. Eh?

Brahmānanda: Well, they say, "Jehovah" and "Yaweḥ."

Prabhupāda: Not fixed up. The Māyāvāda... If you have no fixed name of God, then why don't you chant Kṛṣṇa? What is the harm? But envious. Therefore paramo nirmatśaraṇaṁ (SB 1.1.2). One who has completely eradicated from the envious conception of life, they can take to this way. (Break) ...climate of this island is good.

Cyavana: It's pleasant.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Harikeśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is fair proposal. You take one egg, analyze. If you are scientist, you find out what are the chemicals. You have got all the chemicals. And mix it up, the color yellow, and dip into what is called, celluloid ? Or...?

Brahmānanda: Cellulose?

Prabhupāda: Cellulose, covering? It is just like cellulose. And put underneath the incubator and get. Then we shall accept you. Why not ask all these rascals all over the world?

Brahmānanda: One thing the egg has, the egg has... It's red because there is blood there for nourishment. And they cannot even produce blood.

Prabhupāda: Take blood from the slaughterhouse and put it. If blood is necessary, the tons of blood available. You take it and put it here. That is also another chemical. That's all. Why don't you do that? Little blood required, there is no question of manufacturing. You can get it from slaughterhouse, tons. Take little drops and put it. It is blood. Where is your science, nonsense? It is practical suggestion. Challenge then in big, big meeting. (break) ...past it was coming this side, and fifteen minutes, it has gone down. How many tons of water has gone down on this beach within fifteen minutes? Is there any scientist who can...?

Brahmānanda: They cannot control the water in that way. (Break) It's like there was a big valve, and someone has shut the valve...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You know? What is that? Argumentum vaculum? Hm? With fools and rascals, with animals, there is no logic. Take the stick and beat them. The dog, if he is a dog, what is the argument with him? Take the stick and beat him; then he will go away. That is called argumentum baculum. That is, Sanskrit logic, also said, murkhasya laṭau śādhi (?) "One who is a fool, his only remedy is beating him with stick." This is material. But we are not doing anything material. It is all spiritual. Therefore, especially in this age, Caitanya Mahāprabhu,

tṛṇād api sunīcena
taror api sahiṣṇunā
amāninā mānadena
kīrtanīyaḥ (sadā hariḥ)
(CC Adi 17.31)

So we should preach like this, any rascal, because anyone who has no information of Kṛṣṇa, who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a rascal. That's all. That we must know. That is definite. There is no mistaking it. But if you say that "You are rascal. There is no mistaking it," then you cannot preach. If you directly call a rascal a rascal, he'll be angry. Murkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śanta...: To give good instruction to a fool rascal will increase his anger, that's all." Then you'll not be able to preach. So you have to become very humble, tṛṇād api sunīcena, humbler than the grass. Just like everyone is trampling over the grass. It doesn't protest, "Why you are going, keeping your leg on my head?" But that is the... Tṛṇād api sunīcena. Go on trampling. Hundreds' and hundreds' people are trampling over the grass; they don't protest. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. The tree is standing. You sit down. When there is scorching heat, you take pleasure by sitting down under the shade. But the reward is that you cut the branches. That is their reward. He gives you shelter, and you cut the branch. You cut the whole tree. This is your gratefulness. You see? Because we are rascals, we do not know what is gratefulness. They are taking milk from the cow and killing. This is our proposal.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: This is right answer, that you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. You must serve the stomach. Otherwise your position is very precarious. That is the answer. If the finger thinks that "I shall remain independent and be happy," that is not possible. The stomach must be supplied food, and then all the parts of the body, they'll be happy. That is the point. So you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the central enjoyer. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the center. Just like ordinarily this African state, if you do not satisfy the state or the president, then you cannot remain happy. Independently you cannot be happy. We require in every step sta... We have come to this park because state is cooperating. In the morning we shall come, and they have prepared it nicely. We are not going to the jungle. So if we actually want happiness we must cooperate with the state. This is crude example. Similarly, if our ultimate aim is to become happy, then we must cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. This is obligatory. You cannot escape it. Then you'll be unhappy. This is the... Stomach. Pranopaharac ca yathendriyanam. Therefore the natural process is you pick up... A child even. He picks up some something, but he does not put anywhere—immediately in the mouth. Why he does not bring it in the ear? Why? The child immediately takes it. He does not know what is what. But the nature is that as soon as he captures something, even he does not know... Because his position is eating, he knows this much, sense gratification. Other senses are not yet developed. So the child, he knows taste with tongue and eats. That he knows. So immediately anything he captures, he brings to the mouth, naturally. He hasn't got to be educated. So our position is like that. We being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our natural tendency is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Natural tendency. It is not artificial. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is artificial. So our normal life means to love Kṛṣṇa, to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is our normal life. Without serving Kṛṣṇa our life is abnormal, madman's life. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says... When you forget Kṛṣṇa, He comes to preach the normal life. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). This is normal life. So Kṛṣṇa does not require your help. He can create many helpers. But for your good Kṛṣṇa comes, that "If you want normal, happy life, then surrender unto Me." This is the proposal.

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But what you can see, rascal? Therefore we say you are rascals. Why do you believe your eyes? You cannot see so many things. We don't find any living entity in the ocean. Does it mean there is no living entity? So what is the value of your seeing? That is the defect. They believe in too much their eyes. Although eyes are... Every sense is imperfect. You can see here: "Oh, we don't find anything. It is all zero." Does it mean the sky is zero? There are millions of planets and millions of living entities. So that is their rascaldom. They think that they are perfect. Whatever they see, that is perfect. That is their mistake. If I say, "No, there is no life. I cannot see," is that very good statement? And in the..., externally you don't find any living entity, but is it void of living entities? Then why shall I assert that "There is no living... I cannot see"? Is that very good proposal? Therefore they are rascals. There cannot be any place within this universe which is without life. There cannot be. We see there is life even within sand. How you can say there is no life? "Because I cannot see." What is this argument? What you are? You are a rascal. Because you cannot see, therefore we have to accept? First of all we say you are rascal. And if he says that "I cannot see," is it to be accepted? And the example is there. "I cannot see any life. It is simply water." But there are millions and trillions of life, big, big fish. Where is your perfection of seeing?

Devotee (3): Prabhupāda? Why are the big authorities, like the government people...?

Prabhupāda: Nobody is authority. That is our first assertion. Nobody is authority. Therefore we have placed Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is only authority. All rascals. That is our first assertion-(aside:) Good morning—that except Kṛṣṇa there is no authority. And one who follows Kṛṣṇa, he is authority.

Devotee (3): Why are the so-called scientists trying to make the common people believe that...

Prabhupāda: Because they are so-called scientists. You have already explained. Why you are asking? (laughter) You have already explained, "so-called scientists." That's all. They are not scientists; they are so-called scientists.

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He said, the scientist. Then what your scientific knowledge will help?

Brahmānanda: Well, if they drop some bombs they will reduce the population. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: That is very easy. The bomb is also ready. Everyone has got now nuclear weapon, bomb. So the scientists gave the solution. So what is the use of scientific knowledge? This is going to happen.

Brahmānanda: Actually there was one proposal. It was written in the seventeenth century in England by one famous writer, that "Because the population is increasing so much, therefore if we become cannibals, then the population will be maintained."

Yaśomatīnandana: So who will eat who?

Brahmānanda: Well, that he didn't say.

Prabhupāda: These are scientists, big men.

Girirāja: So the reporter asked him what were his personal plans for the future. So he said he likes one girl, so he wants to get married, and that's all.

Brahmānanda: Increase the population. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. When I was in South America I saw that...

Harikesa: South Africa.

Prabhupāda: South Africa. There are many factories for chicken killing. So I suggested that the egg, you can analyze, find out the chemicals and...

Aksayānanda: Create one.

Prabhupāda: Create one egg. That was my proposal. So he is going to create. (laughter) He'll explain how to create egg from...

Aksayānanda: From chemicals.

Jnana: And make chicken.

Harikesa: Calcium phosphate and a little sulphur for the yellow, make some color, and cover it in plastic and put it in an incubator and let a chicken grow.

Prabhupāda: And you eat.

Aksayānanda: That will be a nice article.

Harikesa: And if they can, they can beat us on the face with shoes, and if they can't, we can beat them on the face with shoes.

Aksayānanda: Well, that's another thing. (break)

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the, when in the morning, it is let loose, then he says, "I don't care for any hahaa, cawcaw." Then in the evening, when they are pushed into the, that what is called? Nest? "Cawcawcawcaw. Whatever you like you can do, whatever you like you can do." (laughter) This is the example. You see? When he's under the arrest, "Now sir, whatever you like, you do with me. If you like you can excuse me." (laughter) And when he's out, "I don't care for anyone." Mūrgī intelligence. Rooster intelligence. This is our proposal. "I don't care for anyone. I am God." Mūrgī logic. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12), if one is not a devotee, his only business is to remain on the mental platform and concoct things. And at the end he thinks that "I am God." Concoction. Therefore it is said in the śāstra, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12). One who is not a devotee, he has no good qualification. He is simply on the, hovering on the mental platform.

Hari-śauri: The sixteenth chapter describes it very nicely...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca, na vidur āsurāḥ (BG 16.7). In which way we have direct out activities, in which way we shall have to stop our activities: they do not know. Āsurāḥ janā. Because they don't take direction from God. They make their own way of speculation. So therefore, they are animals, or demons. Because they do not take direction during life, therefore at the end Kṛṣṇa comes, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). All mental speculation, creation, is taken away at death. (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa! It is said, kṛṣṇa nama koro vai ar sabe miche palaiba patha nāi yama āche piche: take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, don't try to escape. Because behind you there is Yamaraja! (laughs) He will finish your all concoction. Hare Kṛṣṇa! (end)

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Devotee: First we give them the mah-mantra.

Prabhupāda: Mah-mantra, one may not accept.

Bhāgavata: We have to find the ways and the means by which we can make pure devotional service attractive to each living entity according to his...

Prabhupāda: Unless one feels necessity, why they will accept your proposal to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? How you'll make them think "Yes, it is necessity." That is wanted. Otherwise anyone will say, some proposition, "You do this." Then why they will accept it?

Bhāgavata: Hm. We have to make...

Prabhupāda: Unless he feels that... That requires philosophy. If you say something dogmatic, why they'll accept? You say that, "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." He'll say, "I have no interest. I have no interest, why shall I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa?"

Devotee: Tell them that they are eternal spirit soul.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: You tell them that you are eternal spirit soul. Tell them about the eternal spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: That you have to convince. That you are eternal, but you are falsely engaged in temporary business. That you have to tell them.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Aryans means to follow Vedic instructions.

Dr. Patel: They have forgotten.

Prabhupāda: That is Aryans. So they are now the same thing. A person born in a brāhmaṇa family, he is claiming "I am brāhmaṇa." Similarly, even though born in Aryan family, without any culture they are claiming "I am Aryan." Kṛṣṇa observed it in Arjuna, and therefore He chastised him, "This kind of proposal is anārya-juṣṭam. Under the non-Aryans, you're forgetting your duty." That is the beginning of loss of culture. A small beginning, it creates havoc. Kṛṣṇa warned this, anārya-juṣṭam. Kṣatriya's description is given in the Bhāgavata: yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam, not to go behind. They must fight. That is Aryan culture.

Dr. Patel: They are doing strategical fight. Strategically great. They should not repeat, but our army is doing strategical fight.

Prabhupāda: There is a Bengali saying-palabanata boineki(?): "Am I afraid of you, that I shall not go away?"

Dr. Patel: (laughing) I understand.

Prabhupāda: "I must go away. That is my independence!"

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa says specifically, kṣatriya, yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam: "You must fight. Face."

Dr. Patel: That yuddhe must be also religious. Not...

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No sane man will become his devotee. All the manufactured foolish statements, just see. Any commonsense man will immediately say, "Then Śiva is a rascal; he cannot give protection to his devotee." What do you think? Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: Of course, Śrīla Prabhupāda, does one have to give protection to their devotee if they break the law? Just like if you have a child, and he murders someone, isn't he supposed to be punished? So if someone goes against the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even if you are a devotee, shouldn't Śiva concur?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is another thing. This proposal, that because Lord Rāmacandra approached Lord Śiva to kill Rāvaṇa, and he gave permission, although Rāvaṇa was his great devotee. Then what is the use of becoming devotee of Lord Śiva? He gives permission. Huh? Is that very reasonable proposal? If I ask your permission that I shall kill your son, will you give permission? No. Then? So Lord Śiva gives permission to Lord Rāmacandra, "Yes, You can kill Rāvaṇa," then what is the use of becoming his devotee?

Harikeśa: I think Dr. Patel would say that it's not fair, you have fired the opposition.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: It's not fair. You have completely destroyed the opposition. (Prabhupāda laughs) There is no question of fight.

Prabhupāda: The actual fact is that Lord Śiva did not give permission, but he did not go to protect Rāvaṇa, because he knew that it was impossible to give him protection. That is summarized in Bengali, rākhe kṛṣṇa māre ke, māre kṛṣṇa rākhe ke. If Kṛṣṇa kills somebody, wants to kill somebody, nobody can give him protection. That is the conclusion. And if Kṛṣṇa protects somebody, nobody can kill him. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Huh? He was protected by Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva. Who can kill?

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: ...I have to find out...

Prabhupāda: Then the aim is to enjoy life.

Harikeśa: Yes. So I have to find out the means to enjoy, and to negate the pain and to make the pleasure more.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's very nice proposal, but whether, at the present moment, or in the history, whether a man is enjoying life or suffering?

Harikeśa: Well, men, men have actually never really enjoyed because they never understood enough about themselves. They were never able to overcome their difficulties due to ignorance.

Prabhupāda: So then the next question will be that how to become enjoyable, or how to enjoy? The next question is.... There may be different thesis. So our thesis is that we are trying to enjoy life by covering ourself. The crude example.... Just like sometimes before, the.... It may be nowadays also current. The contraceptive method was by using one cover. Do you know that?

Harikeśa: Hmh.

Prabhupāda: What is called?

Harikeśa: Prophylactic.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: A prophylactic.

Page Title:Proposal (Conversations 1974 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:10 of Feb, 2013
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=82, Let=0
No. of Quotes:82