Prabhupāda: Oblations. Yes. This, and to beget child by the husband's younger brother. Formerly, the society allowed that if a woman is young, she has no child, but husband died, so if the husband has younger brother, through the younger brother she could have a child. This system was current. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that these five things are forbidden in this age. So Chand Kazi also replied that "Cow killing is also not generally recommended in the Koran. Actually, beef-eating or flesh-eating is not in the higher stage. But those who are inclined to take flesh, for them it is recommended that instead of killing many small animals, one big animal should be killed. So actually in Mecca, Medina, they kill camel. That is also in the mosque." So the substance of his speech was that flesh-eating ultimately is not recommended. "But those who have no other means, they eat flesh and they recommend that one big animal should be killed. So India, the cow is big animal, therefore we kill. But that is not recommended for advanced spiritual students." In this way... So they were friends, and he understood, Chand Kazi understood that it is very nice movement, that "You are preaching love of Godhead. So I did not understand. So my dear boy, henceforward there will be no hindrances in Your movement and I promise that not only myself but all my descendants will never object Your movement, this saṅkīrtana movement."
Promise (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The short story is that there was two brāhmaṇas. Two brāhmaṇas. One young brāhmaṇa, one old brāhmaṇa. They went to Vṛndāvana to see Gopāla, and the old brāhmaṇa was so obliged to the young brāhmaṇa, he promised to hand over his youngest daughter to the young brāhmaṇa. But when he came back home his eldest son objected. So he kept mum. Then when the young brāhmaṇa, I mean to say, reminded him that "You promised before Gopāla to hand over your daughter. Now you are silent. What is this?" So his eldest son said, "Well, if Gopāla comes to give witness that my father promised before Him then my sister can be married with you." So he went back to Vṛndāvana and requested Gopāla to come and give witness. So He came and the marriage ceremony was performed. This is the sum and substance of the story. And since then Gopāla did not... Gopāla means statue. So in those days there was no transport service. And when Gopāla was present everyone became struck with wonder that "Oh, such a devotee that Gopāla has come from Vṛndāvana to Orissa, more than 1,500 miles." So the king of that place constructed a very nice temple and since then that temple is known as witness Gopāla. Sākṣi-gopāla means witness. So this story can be shortly described and chanted with music and the scene of the temple will be seen, Caitanya Mahāprabhu dancing. Our real purpose will be the dancing and singing and little description.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...the whole atmosphere, you should come and disturb. You are making... You cannot understand? And the whole attention is diverted to you. So harā, harā is the form of the word... Hare is the form of the word harā when address, when She is addressed. And Kṛṣṇa, when He's addressed, the form does not change. This is grammatical rule. So Hare Kṛṣṇa means, "Oh, the energy of Kṛṣṇa, or energy of the Lord," and Kṛṣṇa, "the Lord." So Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa means I am praying not only to the Lord, but to the energy also. This is natural. Just like a man and woman. In whole world there is combination of male and female, either... Any society, human society, or bird society or dog society or animal society. Why this male and female? Why? Female is the energy, energy of the male. Why a man takes, marries a woman and takes responsibility...? Of course, in your country they marry as a matter of joke, immediately divorce after week or after seven days. But marriage means to take full responsibility of a woman. That is real marriage, Vedic marriage. We, when I get married our boys and girls, the boy takes this vow that "I take responsibility of your maintenance throughout your whole life," and the girl promises that "I desire to serve you throughout my whole life." So the woman, the female, is the energy.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (6): In yesterday's paper I read that somebody donated some land to you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. He has proposed to donate; not he has done. Where you learned this?
Guest (6): In that (unclear)
Prabhupāda: Yes, somebody has promised. Somebody has promised.
Guest (6): And it will (unclear) Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa mandir, I will possibly able to get (unclear)
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?
Guest (6): Swamiji, you are here still.
Prabhupāda: But if somebody gives me land I may go on staying here.
Guest (6): No, no, father and mother, they are forcing me to leave you all in my home.
Prabhupāda: Where it is?
Guest (6): It is nearby.
Prabhupāda: Your father, mother, cannot come here?
Guest (6): They want you to come.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śyāmasundara: Actually he made two statements that, well, they practically promised to do this. He said in Los Angeles when he saw the Deities: "Oh, we must have a place like this in London." And then in New York, because I said, "Well, we don't want to be on your show here. We volunteer. You promised...," I said, "You promised us to be on the show in New York, and he said, "I know I promised, and I must fulfill my word, I gave you my word, but I'm just asking you if you will not be on this show, and later I'll have another special concert for Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: So remind him.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: What about these Hindu communities?
Śyāmasundara: Well, that we can do during this time you're here. We can organize it. We can at least inspire them to help us.
Prabhupāda: Are they willing to cooperate with us or not? Because they have already opened some Hindu temple.
Prabhupāda: That was it.
Mr. Arnold: Yeah.
Śyāmasundara: So he's, he promised them perpetual lease.
Prabhupāda: At what price it was being sold?
Dhanañjaya: Two and a half million pounds.
Mr. Arnold: Two and a half, which is exactly the price that I told them to put the bid in for. I went over...
Prabhupāda: Two and a half million.
Mr. Arnold: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: What Dāyananda didn't tell us is that the bank was prepared to finance the whole thing.
Prabhupāda: Huh!
Śyāmasundara: The whole thing.
Mr. Arnold: Well the bank and the building society.
Śyāmasundara: One building society and one bank combinedly would have financed the whole thing, but he sent us a letter that said only two-thirds, they would finance two-thirds.
Prabhupāda: So he is not very intelligent. A missed opportunity.
Prabhupāda: No. The bank was prepared to finance. That is the point.
Mr. Arnold: You see, I sort of schooled Dāyananda and told him to go over and have words with the bank manager, promising that, you know, if they helped us to fund this building, then we would guarantee them tenure, and instead of paying interest back on the, on the loan, we, for bids, we would give them a guaranteed tenure, or peppercorn rent, but we would pay the original loan back, so that there was no charge at all, it was just...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, na tasya śocananarthi. Don't lament which is gone. (laughter)
Mr. Arnold: Yes, thank you, thank you.
Dhanañjaya: Don't cry over spilt milk.
Prabhupāda: That is Sanskrit, na tasya śocananarthi.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: Money god is greater than Brahma and Śiva and Viṣṇu, just about, unfortunately. The people have made an idol of gold and silver and letter of paper, paper making the promises of government...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: ...which are never kept. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: I was going to say, it is a fraud.
Guest: Fraud.
Prabhupāda: Māyā.
Guest: But that is...
Prabhupāda: It is māyā. I give you piece of paper and you think on thousand rupees. This is māyā.
Guest: Yes. You see it depends on the credit to the man who gives the promise. Paper is mainly the document of credit. Governments have till now kept their credit, but now they have learned to disregard their promises also.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: In Gandhi's life also, he once killed one calf or some cow. It was suffering very much. So Gandhi ordered that "Instead of suffering, just kill him."
Girirāja: Yesterday you said that the spiritual master may have to suffer due to the sinful activities of his disciple. What do you mean by sinful activities?
Prabhupāda: Sinful activity means therefore you promised that "I shall follow the regulative principles." If you do not, that is sinful. That is the promise. That is sinful. You break your promise and do nasty things; therefore you are sinful. Is it not?
Girirāja: Yes. (pause) But there are some things we're instructed to do...
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Girirāja: There are other things which we're instructed to do which even though we try to do we cannot do perfectly yet.
Prabhupāda: How is that? You try to do and cannot do? How it is?
Prabhupāda: In Gandhi's life also, he once killed one calf or some cow. It was suffering very much. So Gandhi ordered that "Instead of suffering, just kill him."
Girirāja: Yesterday you said that the spiritual master may have to suffer due to the sinful activities of his disciple. What do you mean by sinful activities?
Prabhupāda: Sinful activity means therefore you promised that "I shall follow the regulative principles." If you do not, that is sinful. That is the promise. That is sinful. You break your promise and do nasty things; therefore you are sinful. Is it not?
Girirāja: Yes. (pause) But there are some things we're instructed to do...
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Girirāja: There are other things which we're instructed to do which even though we try to do we cannot do perfectly yet.
Prabhupāda: How is that? You try to do and cannot do? How it is?
Yadubara: It's a new magazine, and this is the second issue out in America. It promised to be a very good magazine, and it hasn't turned out to be so. It's just another slick magazine.
Prabhupāda: Well, unless magazines are reduced to such position, it will not be sold.
Yadubara: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: They want to make business... All these pictures are yours? No.
Yadubara: No, just the ones on Kṛṣṇa consciousness...
Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you.
Yadubara: ...I'm happy to say.
Prabhupāda: So who will go to Hong Kong?
Dr. Kapoor: You promised to give me a photo of Prabhupāda.
Guru dāsa: I'll give you one.
Prabhupāda: If you have got any colored photo, you can give him. So we have now increased eighty-seven.
Śyāmasundara: More, ninety-two.
Prabhupāda: Ninety-two?
Dr. Kapoor: Ah, you don't know yourself. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yes, actually Kapoorji, I do not know how things are going like this. I tell you frankly. I have no credit. But things are going on like this. It is something like—of course, I am not comparing exactly—just like Kṛṣṇa could not understand about His potency and, therefore He became Rādhārāṇī's feature to understand Himself. So... Of course, I... This is a comparison. Things are taking very wonderfully. Very wonderfully. Just see these boys and girls, how seriously they have taken.
Śyāmasundara: This dictionary gives a definition of necessity. It says that it is a constraint or compulsion regarded as a law prevailing through the material universe and governing all human action. Prabhupāda: Yes. Governing all human action. God knows how many necessities you can create. And for all of them the supply is there. But you do not know, you take it as chance it has come. It is your foolishness that whatever necessities may be... God knows that so many necessities can be. It may be millions types. And for all of them there is immediately supply. So this rascal does not know that it is already planned. (break) The proprietor is living there. The servants are living there. The cats and dogs are also living there. The trees and plants are also living there, and insects and microbes and snakes and rats. So many living entities in the same building. Why they are different? What is the answer? They have been given the same chance of living in the same house, born in the same house. As the proprietor's son is born in the same house, these also, they are also taking birth the same place.
Prabhupāda: He was there?
Devotee (1): Yes, he was there. He came down on stage, jumping up and down, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa." Then he cooked prasādam. He was very enthusiastic.
Prabhupāda: No, he has promised to me that "Wherever I shall go, I shall chant." That he has promised.
Śyāmasundara: He's going to be... He gave me his address in California, so he'll be living there for some time.
Prabhupāda: I asked him that if he was there he can see me again. Our mission is very nice. We want to see everyone happy. We don't want anything from anyone. We don't say that "You give me fee, then I give you some mantra." No, we don't say like that. Our instruction is free. I want to see that they are doing it and they are happy, that's all. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa bolo, saṅge calo, ei-mātra bhikhā cāi, this Bhaktivinoda's, "You simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and come with me. This much I want. I don't want anything else."
Śyāmasundara: So one who is mad after something else material, mad after this or that...
Prabhupāda: It is perverted.
Śyāmasundara: Because they promise something they don't deliver?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Even if you get it, what do you get? You go to... Supposed you go to church: "God, give us our daily bread." God is giving, then what do you get? Bread is given to the animals also. Why you are going to the church? That is the Communist say, that "We shall give you bread. Why you waste your time with so-called religions?" The politician says that "You want to be happy, there is technology. Why you are going to pray to God? This is all nonsense." They are thinking that. But prayer is not meant for that purpose. Prayer... Just like we are praying, but our prayer is "Kṛṣṇa, kindly engage me in Your service," Hare Kṛṣṇa. "O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, O the Lord Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." This is our prayer. We are not going to prayer, "O God, give us our daily bread." And if you get bread, then what do you gain?
Prabhupāda: Because Lord Macauley(?) gave them in this study, they said that if you keep the Indians in their original culture, then they cannot be broken. Gandhi took that state: noncooperation. Don't cooperate with them. And then kill them. Devotee: This man who wrote this book made an interesting comment. He said that after..., or before the First World War, when the British were entering the First World War, they made a promise to the Indians that "If you help us fight this war, then we will give you freedom afterwards."
Prabhupāda: They did not.
Devotee: They helped, but they didn't give them freedom. So Gandhi or the others, they took that asat. "They have broken their promise, so now we can break ours, noncooperation."
Prabhupāda: Yes. They actually expanded their empire all over the (indistinct) world by Indian cooperation. Therefore these big men like Attlee, when they thought that "India is going out of our hands," so don't (indistinct) up our empire. Forget it. They voluntarily (indistinct).
Devotee: The whole thing. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Now they are not, those Englishmen, as they were in Victorian day. Nobody cares for you.
Prabhupāda: No. You must at least promise that he gives (break) And if we promise that (indistinct). But after initiation if she smokes, that's not good.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. (indistinct)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct)
Jayatīrtha: So if someone is sincere, we want them to follow devotional principles. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No. If you have the determination, Kṛṣṇa will help. If she is determined that "Even if I die, I shall not smoke," then Kṛṣṇa will help her. And if she thinks, "So I'll not do it. If Kṛṣṇa likes, He will help me." (indistinct) Just like (indistinct). He has prepared some nice foodstuff. So he says, "If Kṛṣṇa comes, I will give Him; otherwise I shall eat." (laughter) "And if Kṛṣṇa is very hungry, He will come." So this alternative proposal is not accepted. "If Kṛṣṇa comes, I will offer Him this. Otherwise I shall eat."
Dr. Kapoor: 500,000 dollars?
Prabhupāda: Yes. $500,000 means five crores according to Indian rate.
Dr. Kapoor: (laughing) Fabulous.
Prabhupāda: So I had no money, (laughter). But one nice boy—his name is known all over the world, George Harrison—he has promised to give me loan.
Dr. Kapoor: Kṛṣṇa has all the money.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So actually, we are spending not less than seven lakhs of rupees per month throughout the whole our institution. But by the grace of God, Kṛṣṇa, we are selling our books very nicely.
Dr. Kapoor: That's very encouraging. That's most encouraging.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are selling our books, average, at the rate of 25,000 rupees per day.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Ah, Uṣā, Uṣā, yes. So Aniruddha. That friend brought Aniruddha, Kṛṣṇa's son. She dreamt Aniruddha. So she promised, "I am bringing you just picture, which picture do you like?"
Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: Citralekhā.
Prabhupāda: Citralekhā. Yes, he remembers. (pause)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is an experiment that was done by Pasteur, a French scientist a long time ago. In that experiment he boiled some, I think it was water. Because normally the water, without boiling there are so many microorganisms, small, small living entities, that can be detected under microscope. He wanted to know whether life started from some ingredients inside or just life started from life. So he boiled this solution and he kept for some time under very careful covering so that there is no contamination from outside. And then there was no life. He couldn't find any organisms. So they said, "Life starts from matter." That is one of the experiments.
Prabhupāda: What is that experiment?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Boil water first of all.
Prabhupāda: In material world such competition is there.
Guest (3): Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is not spiritual world. That is material. So Droṇācārya gave Arjuna the benediction that "You shall be the greatest archer." So in order to keep his promise, he made that...
Guest (1): That wasn't, I think, what he did. (Paramahaṁsa or someone else enters.)
Paramahaṁsa: Śyāmasundara, Śyāmasundara is not in the temple.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What is that?
Devotee: Oh, this is just a little preparation, burfi and a little kheer.
Guest (3): Can't you bring him the plate like that?
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right.
Guest (4): So what you're saying is that there's no harm by his...
Prabhupāda: No, you can... That will help you in future to give up these habits. Chanting you can begin at any condition. But when we initiate officially, we take this promise. Then we initiate. This is our condition. Yatra pāpaś catur-vidhā. According to śāstra, these are four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. But these are modern civilization. It is very difficult.
Guest (3): Swamiji? Tea and coffee's also included?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also intoxicant. Pāna. Chāi, pāna. Pāna, pāna means intoxication. Dhūmra-pāna.
Guest (7): Dhūmra-pāna.
Guest (2): And what about supāri, Swamiji?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also ingredient of pāna. Pāna, it is called pāna.
Prabhupāda: Defense. Defense means... Just like we have discovered atomic bomb for defending. This is also material activities. So it requires time to learn. But one thing is, the beginning should be, as far as possible, our life should be sinless. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, it is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam. "Anyone who is completely freed from all sinful activities." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. "And always engaged in pious activities, such person can become devotee." Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 7.28). "He becomes free from the duality of this world, and becomes fixed-up in My service." So this is the condition, that yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam. Without being sinless, nobody can understand what is Bhagavān, what is Bhagavad-bhajana. Therefore this is the beginning of sinless life: no intoxication, no illicit sex... If you can, if somebody avoids these things, he does not die. It is simply a little practice. He's practiced to all these bad habits, and if he likes, he can give it up. It is not difficult. And this is tapasya, little tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). To become advanced in spiritual life, one has to accept some tapasya, austerity. So this is a simple austerity. Therefore when we officially initiate, we get this promise from the student, that "You have to follow this." And that's all.
Guest (7): Oh, my God. You can (indistinct) us (indistinct) stop smoking.
Prabhupāda: No, no. (Hindi) "Where there is a will, there is a way." (Hindi)
Guest (7): So when I shall take the whole promise?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guest (7): When I shall take the whole, the whole of what everything is to do this...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, at any time, when you are ready.
Guest (8): (Hindi) ...any time.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi or Sanskrit)
Guest (1): (Hindi for couple sentences)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) ...polluted and we have to deal with them.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah. Well, two came around here once when we first moved in saying that Mrs. Ruffles had promised them that they could paint the place. And we thought it was a little suspicious the way they were talking. And we watched them. They were looking mostly at the lead, I think, in the glass. Finally, we told them to get off and not come back. But, a little suspicious of...
Harry: Umm. Yeah. This, if you do get them, let me know. 'Cause I'll soon warn them off.
Śyāmasundara: (laughs) Yeah.
Harry: I'll soon push them off. Unless, of course they want to come here as a visitor.
Revatīnandana: They do steal sometimes, eh?
Harry: Steal?
Revatīnandana: Yeah.
Harry: Oh yeah, they will do, oh yeah. They will do. Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Their profession is stealing.
Guest (1): Yes. That, in some way, to me at this moment, it seems to be an echo of the Old Testament prophetic promises of the end of the last age and also the revelation in the New Testament. Can this be the son of God revealing Himself to the East and the West in different forms but the same personality? I'm presuming that...
Haṁsadūta: God is meant for everybody. Doesn't matter East or West. Just like Kṛṣṇa appeared in India, but we are not Indians. We are all Americans and Europeans, so... Just like the sun. The sun may appear over London or England, but it's not English sun. Everyone's sun. Similarly, when God appears or God's representative appears, it's meant for everyone.
Guest (1): Yes. So, forgive me if I talk across you, please, won't you.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, yes.
Prabhupāda: Now just like Sir Padampat Singhania of Kanpur, he promised that, "You just construct a nice temple in New York." He wanted to give the money. The government will not allow.
Ambassador: Oh, foreign exchange.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not allow. I made correspondence with the government. The last reply was that "You can raise fund locally, but you cannot take money from here." Now who will pay...? Of course, these boys are paying me. We are getting... Now recently, one boy, you know his name, George Harrison. He's a very famous singer.
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So he has purchased for me one house, fifty-five lakhs worth. But what, no Indian could help me. At two hundred and twenty thousand pounds. So it is equivalent to fifty-five lakhs.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. God's name. God's... In every respect, these materialists, they want to use God for their sense gratification. That is the prime fact. Our philosophy is that "God is not agent for your sense gratification, but you are agent for God's satisfaction." That is our philosophy, just the opposite. Even so-called religionists, they also take God as the agent of their sense gratification. They go to church to order God, "Supply our bread." Actually, He is doing. God is supplying bread. But they go for ordering, that "Give us our..." The rascal does not know, God is already supplying. Why should we go to church for ordering Him to supply bread? He is already supplying, even to the cats and dogs. They do not now what is the purpose of going to the church. That is going on. That is the disease, material disease. "I want to satisfy my senses, and anyone who will help me in my sense gratification, I shall worship him. If he does not, then I shall not." Everywhere. This Nixon became president because he promised that "I shall satisfy your senses." Now he is not doing so, so "Get out." This is the whole formula, material world." You satisfy my senses, you are my friend. And as soon as stop, then you are not my friend." That's it. (break) ...are considered the most authoritative because they give sense gratification. "You are sick. Now you are unable to gratify your senses. I give you some medicine so you become strong and go on your sense gratification." Therefore doctor is very good man.
Prabhupāda: That is cheating. Therefore I say cheating. I have no money. I give you simply paper. I promise to pay hundred dollars. What is the use of that promise if I have no money? But you want to be cheated. I cheat you. That's all. You are satisfied of being cheated by me; so I take the advantage and I cheat you. I give you a paper. That's all.
Bahulāśva: Real money is gold and silver.
Prabhupāda: Any... It must be value. According to the market price, it must be value. Whatever it may be. Gold is taken, because gold is the most valuable metal. A small piece of gold, it can carry two hundred dollars. But if I give you iron, then you have to bring another, what is called, bus, to carry it. (laughter) So therefore gold standard is accepted everywhere. There is a standard price of gold, so when I pay you money, it must be, carry the value in gold. That's all. Then there is no inflation. The people want to be cheated, and people cheat. That's all.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Then if he cannot, then he is cat and dog. He is not a human being. Why he should accept initiation? Let him remain a cat and dog. He promises to follow, and if he cannot follow, then he is nothing but cat and dog. In the court, they take promises, that "In the name of God," "In the name of Bible." So that means he will speak the truth. Similarly, before the fire, before Deity, before guru, before devotees, he is promising something, and if he does not follow, then he is cat and dog. He cannot advance. It is not possible. That is the distinction between cat and dog and human being. Cat and dog, they cannot promise. It is not possible. But a human being can promise. And if he keeps his promise, then he is human being. Otherwise cat and dog. Word of honor. The cats and dogs, they have no sense of honor. Either you kick him or pat, he does not know what is the difference. That is cat and dog. He does not know the distinction. A human being knows what is promise, what is word of honor.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you fail to keep your promise, then you're fallen. You have to rectify yourself. Immediately you're fallen. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na sa siddhim (BG 16.23). That means you'll never get perfection. You'll fall down. You can cheat others that "I am in dress of a devotee, so I am..." What is your character? What is your actual value? That has to be judged. That is call bona fide teacher. All right, chant. (brief japa chanting)
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsa means aniketaḥ. Now we have got hundred temples. We have got hundred temples. But Kṛṣṇa does not allow me to stay eight days, more than.
Dr. Patel: But how long you going to stay here? You have promised me to stay long, eh?
Prabhupāda: But if Kṛṣṇa allows...
Mr. Sar: I will always pray to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: I am dependent on Kṛṣṇa. If He allows. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Because we can't come to America to keep your company.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Here is a Pacific Ocean. (break) Sometimes I think "When I was simply depending on Kṛṣṇa, those days... Now I have to depend on so many disciples." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: ...mleccha. Mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ. Mlecchas will take the position of government.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...he is concerned, he has done his duty. And he has promised to phone. Now it is his duty.
Dr. Patel: No, no. But Swamiji, means, we have to follow it up, no?
Prabhupāda: What following? We are following for the last four months. They are calling, "Come day, this date, that date." This is following.
Dr. Patel: I was a member of the Municipal Corporation of Bombay. I know that in ordinary course these rascals don't pass the plans for six and eight months. What do you say?
Prabhupāda: So how one gentleman can deal with rascals? That is another dilemma.
Prabhupāda: ...in the body, so we have to behave duality. (laughter) You cannot say oneness. When you are liberated from the body, that is another thing. For practical purposes... This philosophy was discussed by the mother of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu when He was a child, this philosophy. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was given very nice sweetmeats to eat. So instead of eating the sweetmeat, He was eating the dirt. So mother said, "My dear child, why You are eating dirt? I have given You sandeśa." "Mother, what is the difference between this dirt and sandeśa? It is all Brahman." You see? So His mother said, "My dear child, You are all right. Just like this is earth, and there is earthen pot. So if you want to keep water, you cannot throw the water on the ground. You have to take the earthen pot." So this philosophy of oneness and difference was already discussed when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a child. Simultaneously one and different. Yes. Earthen pot and earth, actually, from the material point of view, they're the same thing. But if you want to keep water you cannot keep it on the ground. You have to take to the jug. (Hindi) (break)
Dr. Patel: I promise you I won't. Because you are trying to choke me.
Prabhupāda: No, I am not... We should have discussion. That is nice.
Dr. Patel: Shall we?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Chandobhai: He has made a promise.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kaunteya pratijānīhi. He has not promised. He says Arjuna, that "You declare this." Because sometimes for His devotee He breaks His promise. But because His devotee Arjuna will promise, it will be never frustrated. "Oh, My devotee has promised." Therefore He says, kaunteya pratijānīhi, "You do this."
Prabhupāda: Very simple thing. You always think of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā, you become His devotee, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yājī, worship Kṛṣṇa, and namaskuru. Where is the cost? No expenditure. If you think of Kṛṣṇa, if you worship Kṛṣṇa, if you offer obeisances to Him... Therefore this Deity is there. For these purposes. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Simply by doing these four things, he is becoming liberated so much that he is going back to Godhead. That's all. (break) ...movement is very scientific movement, based on the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. Most scientific. (break) We may be proud. Because this is scientific, therefore it is so quickly progressing. (break) ...take. This is mām cult. (break) ...so I was, that "I want to start this movement," I was talking. So he very much appreciated and he promised in writing that "As soon as I retire I shall join with you." He wrote me.
Yaśomatīnandana: 28th day of Brahmā. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Yes. 28th or 27th. 27th Dvāpara-yuga. (break) Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). This is kṣatriya's business: to establish religious principles and to kill the demons. This is kṣatriya's business. And Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He appeared as a brāhmaṇa. So He did not kill anybody. Although He was just about to kill Jagāi and Mādhāi, but Nityānanda Prabhu restrained that "In this incarnation You have promised not to kill." (break) You know I wrote him that letter.
Bhāgavata: Gandhi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That "You now preach Bhagavad-gītā," but he would not do that. Go on. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...deliver each and every child to Kamsa, but in the case of Kṛṣṇa he did not do so. He did not deliver. He cheated him by changing. So to give protection to Kṛṣṇa, they had to do something, even it is not sanctioned. He violated because he promised before Kaṁsa that "I shall deliver all the children," and he did it. But when there was Kṛṣṇa, he broke the promise.
Śrīdhara: "Vasudeva continued, 'My dear friend it is very difficult...' "
Prabhupāda: Therefore Vasudeva is very jubilant that Kṛṣṇa is now alive and His birthday ceremony has been performed. Therefore he is so pleased.
Śrīdhara: "Vasudeva continued, 'My dear friend, it is very difficult for us to live together.' " (break)
Prabhupāda: ...cows were getting grass also. Water. But you will find there is no water, there is no grass in the field. And the government is sending the cows to the slaughterhouse. This is the condition of present India. In Europe, America, although they are selling the cows to the slaughterhouse, they have got enough grass and water. That I have seen. At least so long they live, the cows are comfortably maintained. But here there is no comfort for the cows. Now here the anxiety is whether the cows are getting sufficient grass and water.
Prabhupāda: But you do your business. You don't follow them. That's all. You remain perfect. There are many imperfects, admitting, but you try to remain perfect so that they may see you, your behavior, and they may follow you. If everyone is sincere in his activity, then where is the question? The society means if I am defective, I am seeing that you are doing nicely, so I will be ashamed. That is also teaching. Actually that should be the practice. If I cannot finish my sixteen rounds due to some business, then next day I must finish it. If you say that "Next day also, I am busy," then you should forego your eating and sleeping and finish it. That is the way. You are so busy, but you do not forget your eating and sleeping. That is cheating. If you are so busy that you forget your eating and sleeping, then I can consider that you are very busy. But you do not forget this portion. "Whenever there is opportunity, I sleep and eat. And I have no time for chanting"—this is cheating. How long you can go on by cheating? You must finish it. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Somebody, after initiation he promises, "Yes, I shall follow these rules and regulations. I shall chant sixteen rounds," before the fire, before the Deity, before the guru, and if he does not follow, then he is a cheater. What to speak of his becoming a Vaiṣṇava, he is a cheater. He breaks all his promises.
Prabhupāda: He will pay. You can tell them that "Not a single farthing here. He can spend elsewhere. If you don't pay for the temple, then we shall go on like this. But as he has promised one lakh of rupees, that he will pay. That's all." Others, you have to collect here. That one lakh is promised. That will be paid.
Mahāṁsa: Otherwise we can go on like this. This is very nice. So many people are coming...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. In Bombay also, we can go without Deity or... Things are going on. There is no hindrance. Our members are coming. They are becoming members. You see? There is no difficulty. (break) You know the parliamentary question?
Gargamuni: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Parliament questioned that "These Americans, they are supposed to be..." What is that? "CIA. CIA." Is there any information to the government? "Besides that, they have got fabulous money. They are spending. Wherefrom they get the money? And if they are CIA, then what steps the government is going to step, take against them?" So the reply was three. First reply was "The government has no information that they are CIA people. Therefore the third question doesn't require to be answered, what steps? And so far their fabulous money, it is understood they collect by selling their literature and public contribution." Yes. Home member replied like this.
Bhagavān: A little material benefit, that increase, they take to be spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Gymnastic. Just like a man, by bodily exercise, he becomes a little strong. His digestive function becomes very easy, he can eat more. He can enjoy more sex life. These benefits they want. And if you promise all these benefits, they become attracted. And they cannot understand, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, we do not accept anymore material body, but go to back to home, back to... These things they cannot understand.
Yogeśvara: Can we take a picture right here, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: It is beyond their understanding.
Bhagavān: We are the only ones who are preaching like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual benefits, they do not understand. What is this building? This is also old construction?
Guru-gaurāṅga: The government promised it would be only for peaceful purposes.
Prabhupāda: No, what do they know about peaceful conditions. They are all rascals. They do not know what is peaceful condition. Actually peaceful condition is described in the Bhagavad-gītā,
- bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
- sarva-loka-maheśvaram
- suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
- (BG 5.29)
This is peace. Unless there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, where is the peacefulness? There cannot be. All rascaldom. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). These rascals and fools, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ, lost of all knowledge—how there can be peace? It is all useless. What is this?
Satsvarūpa: Embracing. Men and women and child, too.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you become once more cheated? You have been cheated so many times. Why not try this also? If that is his argument, that means you have been cheated so many times. So why not once more, and see whether it is cheating or reality? That sense will not come. "Oh, I have been cheated so many times. Therefore I shall not take." So why not become once more cheated and see the value? The example, as I say, sometimes. (Bengali) ...that he lost his utensils several times. The thief stole it. Therefore he promised, "Now I shall take my food on the ground. I shall not purchase any more utensils." What is...? This is bathing place or...?
Yogeśvara: This is where they go water skiing.
Prabhupāda: Water skiing?
Yogeśvara: Yes. They stand on two pieces of wood and they hold on to a rope, and a fast boat pulls them along the water, like that.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Like, what you have? Surfer? Surfer?
Karandhara: Surfing. Yeah, similar.
Prabhupāda: Surfing. Surfing or suffering? (laughter) Unnecessarily, whole day and night they are... This is also another example of māyā. He is actually suffering, but he's thinking, enjoying. It always remains calm and quiet? There is no waves?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Sometimes. In the morning it's very calm.
Prabhupāda: But there cannot be any big waves.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yogeśvara: The scientists claim that they have found a way of making babies more intelligent.
Prabhupāda: That, they are dipping in so many things. Therefore we kick on their face, that say, promise, so many things, but cannot do anything. That is the defect of the so-called scientists. They are promising, "By scientific method, we shall make man deathless." Do they not say?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But have they made him deathless? Simply a dream. That's all. Utopian dream.
Bhagavān: Even if they succeed in one area of doing something they promise...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, that is very good remark, appreciated. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is known as patita-pāvana, the deliverer of the most fallen. Patita-pāvana-hetu tava avatāra: "My Lord, Your incarnation is for the reason to deliver all the fallen souls." So He gave one example by delivering Jagāi and Mādhāi, but by His grace, now thousands of Jagāi-Mādhāis are being delivered. He gave the example that here is the typical patita, fallen. So this movement will deliver this kind of people. That is His prediction. Or it... factually by this movement, so many Jagāi-Mādhāis are being delivered. Jagāi... What was their fault? The fault was they were number one woman hunter and all other good qualifications: (laughing) drunkard, meat-eaters and thieves, rogues. That is their qualification. And immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu turned them to become Vaiṣṇava. "Simply promise that... You say that you shall not commit anymore these sinful activities." "Yes, Sir, I will not." So that process we are going on. (end)
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: If they are sincere, how they can fall down? They are not sincere; therefore they fall down.
Amogha: Madhudviṣa Swami was telling us once that sincerity must be combined with spiritual strength.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual strength means sincerity and sincerity means spiritual strength. If I promise before the fire, before the Deity, before my spiritual master that "I shall observe the rules and regulation," and if I don't follow, then where is my sincerity?
Devotee (1): But the devotees, they're trying to be in the mode of goodness. In the Bhagavad-gītā...
Prabhupāda: Well, the trying... Then why do you take initiation and promise? You are trying. First of all, you be fixed up. Why do you cheat Kṛṣṇa, the spiritual master, the fire? If you are not fixed up, you should not take initiation.
Paramahaṁsa:
- man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
- mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
- mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te
- pratijāne priyo 'si me
- (BG 18.65)
Translation: "Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend."
Prabhupāda: Now, man-manāḥ, you have to think of God. But if you do not know who is God, then how you will think of Him? If I say that "You always think of me," now you are seeing me, you can think of me. But if you have no knowledge about me, who is, then how you can think of me?
Dr. Copeland: If you're measuring your success by the numbers of people, he had a lot of people too.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't take that, by number of people. We take how many people are taking actually. But neither... Ekaś candras tamo hanti: "If one man accepts, then he can become the bright moon." Na ca tārāḥ sahasraśaḥ: "The so-called stars has no value." One moon is sufficient. So our preaching is: Let one man understand Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We don't want disciples. I never collected disciples. I never compromised that "You can do whatever you like, and you become my disciple. "No. You have to follow this. Now also, this morning, I accepted so many... "First promise whether you are going to do this. Then I initiate." This is my policy. If I would have said, "No, you can do whatever you like, and give me some money. I shall give you mantra," then you would have seen millions. But I accept very selected disciple, not that anyone, everyone comes, and I accept disciple. No. He is first of all trained up six months. Then, when he is able to promise to follow the regulative..., then I accept. This is stricture. It is not that everyone comes, "Give me thirty-five dollars. I give you mantra, and within six months you become God." I do not do that.
Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa's, Rāvaṇa's staircase for going to the heaven. He promised that "Oh, what is the use of austerity? I shall make a staircase directly. You can go." As their... It is the same, Rāvaṇa's staircase and the modern attempt to go to the moon planet, the same thing. They will never be able to go, but imagining that "We shall do it." The same process, Rāvaṇa's process. For how many years they are going? Since 1950?
Devotee: To the moon expedition?
Prabhupāda: Yes, moon expedition.
Devotee: Maybe 1955.
Madhudviṣa: 1955.
Devotee: The first moon landing was 1961.
Prabhupāda: That is beginning. First of all they sent dog. (laughter)
Siddha-svarūpa: They promised that man? (laughs) So they are doing good for that person?
Prabhupāda: Everything, "Later on. Wait. Take this post-dated check." "And where is money, sir?" "Wait. You have got the check. That's all right."
Siddha-svarūpa: They are making promises.
Devotee: The scientists who are saying that they're going to do this, they'll be also in the same position after some years.
Siddha-svarūpa: Right, they're promising this person they freezed that "We will thaw you out later," but they cannot even promise themself that they won't die that night in a car accident or die from some disease themselves. So how can they promise that "In a while we will thaw you out"? They're simply cheating the people.
Prabhupāda: Why it is congested today?
Prabhupāda: You give him one book, that Scientific Basis of...
Jayatīrtha: ...of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Have you read that book by Svarūpa Dāmodara.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can give him one book. You read it.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Dr. Gerson has promised that he will read every single one of your books before he writes his book. He's very serious.
Prabhupāda: That is very kind of you. We have got about fifty books. (laughter)
Dharmādhyakṣa: He knows.
Prabhupāda: And it is increasing. Perhaps in the next two months we shall increase another seventeen books. There are seventeen books pending to be published. They have not done. So I am sitting here to see that this is published within two months. So therefore they are working day and night, the editorial department, printing department. They have got very nice arrangement for working.
Prabhupāda: No, it was entrusted to Praṇava.
Nitāi: Oh, Praṇava has not said anything, sent any word with me. Viśvambhara is very enthusiastic for starting the Gurukula there. He has said that he can give more than a lakh in order to build a building. Previously he promised a lakh but he said that there is more money he can continually give for supporting the Gurukula there.
Prabhupāda: So I have sent news to Praṇava to complete the negotiation, and he has done nothing?
Nitāi: I don't know whether he has done or not.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...doctor?
Nitāi: The doctor is staying there. He is... (break) ...for a few days and stays, and then he goes for a few days. Then he comes. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Pradyumna is doing?
Prabhupāda: Again foolishness. That irritates me. When they speak like that, rascal, that irritates me. (laughter) Therefore I simply call them rascal. (break) Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇaḥ. They are claiming very, very, big man, but as soon as we see that he is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we reject, "He is a foolish." (break) There is... That is a fact, one case was going on, and the judge was dozing, like that. So his clerk warned, "You are dozing. Big, big lawyers, they are talking." "So let these rascals go on talking. I have already concluded my..., (laughter) what judgment I shall give. Let them..." (laughs) So our is like that. We don't hear these rascals. Our judgment is already there. They are rascals. That's all. Let them talk whole day and night. The judge said to the clerk that "I have already made my judgment, so let these foolish men go on talking." (break) ...minister of Orissa, he has promised a land in Jagannātha Purī. So if we get that land, is it not possible to construct another Jagannātha temple? You'll earn the American money here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they won't let us into that Jagannātha Purī, we have to make another one.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jagannātha will come to our temple. Yes. (break) ...selling prasādam, we shall distribute free. (break) ...comes, take prasādam. (end)
Prabhupāda: They are going on ciraṁ vicinvan. Forever they are simply thinking, and no improvement has done.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Of course, they promise that they will be able to do so many...
Prabhupāda: That everyone can, a child can also promise. That is another thing.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: (break) ...the cells because they say that the cells are the fundamental unit of life and if they can understand even a very simple cell, then they think perhaps they can find the principles to understand everything living.
Prabhupāda: Well, this "perhaps..."
Ravīndra-svarūpa: But they can't understand the cell.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So their "perhaps," "maybe," is going on. And that will continue.
Prabhupāda: Car is "parking," they say? Or "standing"?
Brahmānanda: "Standing" means if the person remains inside. (break)
Ādi-keśava: I spoke to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa on the phone the other day, and he asked me to tell you that we're sending 64,000 to your book fund for this month. And he said also he promises you 100,000 per month by the end of the year.
Prabhupāda: Very good news. (aside:) Good morning. (break)
Ādi-keśava: ...and to tell you that he will be distributing over fourteen thousand of your big books every month, 125,000 of your Back to Godheads, and at least ten thousand of your medium size books, like the Kṛṣṇa trilogy book or the Beyond Birth and Death, those books.
Prabhupāda: So he is going over Tripurāri?
Ādi-keśava: Well, Tripurāri is also with us.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Including both.
Prabhupāda: Where is comfort? You are going to die. Where is your comfort? You are going to be diseased. You are going to be old man like me. Every moment there is some trouble. So where is the comfort, rascal? That means misleading. There is no comfort; still, they are promising comfort. This is misleading. Where is comfort? Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is no comfort.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Where is comfort? If you have to die—"Oh, I am dying comfortably"—what is this nonsense? "I am dying comfortably."
Indian devotee man (1): Like yesterday night, that man. I asked him, (Hindi) So he said that "I am all right." But he was unable to sit on the chair.
Prabhupāda: So which way?
Cyavana: To the park, straight.
Prabhupāda: Comfort, where is your comfort? Why you have so many medical men if you are comfortable? Why there are so many drugs, medicine, if you are comfortable? This is māyā. He is not in comfort; still, he will say that "I am in comfort." This is called māyā, illusion.
Prabhupāda: The Indians are driven away.
Indian man (1): But there is a change at the moment. We are getting indirect representation in Parliament, and most probably in a matter of twenty, thirty years... (laughter) Promises.
Devotee (4): Sounds like the scientists.
Indian man (1): Live on a promise.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If you're still alive then.
Indian man (1): Is that also effected through karma maybe, Swamiji?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Indian man (1): Is that also effected through karma maybe?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...the whole, you are getting sufficient food to eat.
Prabhupāda: Everything is there. Just you take and... In Bombay, Calcutta, if you pay for, you can get tiger's blood.
Dr. Patel: That side, you can get tiger's blood and even tiger's milk. But then you can't get time. The cement a certain, takes certain time to dry, no?
Prabhupāda: Then the answer is... No, the architects have promised, within three months.
Dr. Patel: You must have some, some mantras then, architect. Have you got any mantras brought from America or...?
Devotees: Haribol!
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! (break) ...is practical. (break)
Dr. Patel: ...because God does not want to come out and meet idiots. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: No. They obstructed so much, so it must be wall against those persons. From the very beginning they were obstructing. So therefore we raised the wall so that they may not come.
Dr. Patel: You rate me very badly.
Prabhupāda: No, because you are saying like that. You do not know that I started this business without nothing, you see, with practical nothing. I offered Mr. Nair that "I will give you two lakhs, and the balance I'll give you in three years." So who will believe? "He is a beggar, and he promises to give me fifteen lakhs of rupees within three years." Who will believe that? He knew that "He will not be able to pay. So whatever two lakhs, three lakhs he gives, that will be mine. That's all. Bas." And I was thinking, "He is such a nice gentleman that he will take money, little, little, and I will collect and pay. He is a nice gentleman," I was thinking. And he was thinking, "He's a great fool, (laughter) that he is offering me two lakhs, three lakhs, and he will never be able to pay me balance." So this was the transaction beginning.
Prabhupāda: But we have got sufficient S of I.
Saurabha: Yes, but we need... We require a certain area for garden, and that is not there yet. Minimum garden has to be, and we have about three-quarter of that. So unless you make another garden first, we cannot make, according to the architects. But maybe with, er, by paying some money in advance, that we promise them that, say, after so much time we will break these houses down, then they may agree, like they agreed on the old house that we had to pay six hundred rupees, and as soon as we break the house down we get six hundred rupees back. Then they know that we will break it down.
Prabhupāda: Which one?
Saurabha: The old house.
Prabhupāda: Oh, old house.
Saurabha: Otherwise they won't allow us to build a temple so close to that place. The same problem is with those hutment. In order to build the building they have be moved or we have to promise them that within a certain time we will break them down.
Prabhupāda: (break) You are going to canvass for books? No.
Devotee: I think it's a good idea but we don't have permission yet from the government to do that. We can't do that as yet. (break)
Prabhupāda: Now we have to get permission for selling. We have got to.
Dr. Patel: What?
Prabhupāda: These books.
Dr. Patel: I don't think there is any need of permission.
Prabhupāda: No, we gave our promise... (end)
Prabhupāda: No, it is not cheating. It is... The income tax department is a cheating department, so everyone tries to avoid this cheating department. That's it.
Ambarīṣa: Yes. People hire lawyers, very expensive lawyers, just to find loopholes in their tax statements.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The cheating begins from the government. They are giving some paper and asking people, "Here is ten thousand dollars." This is cheating. "I promise to pay." But when the government is failure, where is the promise? Who pays? This is cheating.
Harikeśa: During the Depression that happened. People lined up for miles. During the Depression in America people lined up for miles outside of the bank, and the bank couldn't give them any money. And even if they had money, it wouldn't buy anything.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Akṣayānanda: I never heard this before.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No. Is she is staying there as a paying guest or what?
Indian man: No, she want... She paid us eleven hundred rupees in Kanpur and, I don't know... The devotees, they promised her she can come and she can stay in our temple but they never told her the four regulative principles and to accept the guru.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Akṣayānanda: No, that is not true.
Indian man: So she wants the money back.
Prabhupāda: So give. Give her back.
Prabhupāda: Ah, that is real knowledge. But they are under the impression of this false knowledge. Therefore it is samai. Why samai? You are already there. Kṛṣṇa says mamaivāṁso jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). When the sun is there, the sunshine is also there. Always. So you are sunshine and Kṛṣṇa is sun, so we are already together. But the cloud is there. We are thinking "I am not sunshine; I am cloud." That is misconception. But when we understand that the cloud is no more there, then aha brahmāsmi. Brahm-bhūta prasannātmā. That is wanted. Under the fool's guidance you are becoming fool. And if we take the real guidance, then we come into the real knowledge. We have created a fool's paradise. Everyone is a fool, and he is promising paradise.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is starting here also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, gradually. As soon as you kill, then you must be killed. This law is there: life for life. So where is your independence? Independence means you are inviting more sufferings, that's all. You go on, declare your independence. We are the only sane man. We have accepted that "We have no independence." Here Kṛṣṇa is asking. "Let me surrender unto..." That's all. So we have to convince the people, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific. You are foolishly rascal. You are trying to be independent. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa is asking to surrender. You do that." That will make him happy. In many varieties of ways we have to convince them and prove that "You are foolishly thinking that there is independent, so-called scientific advancement, and only promising, 'Yes, in future we shall be like this, be like this.' " What is future? Just take account of your present position.
Prabhupāda: There is good potency in South India.
Acyutānanda: Oh, yes, it is very promising.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Jaya.
Mahāmṣa: He is secretary of our committee here and president of the Rotary Club in Nelore.
Prabhupāda: So your arrangement was very nice. Thank you. Hm. Where is that wrapper? These cottages are very nice.
Mahāmṣa: (break) His father is donating for Kṛṣṇa's Deity.
Prabhupāda: Oh. And who is donating for the temple?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Jayapatāka: Enthusiastic.
Prabhupāda: So that Consulate General, he has promised to help for getting grains from India, er, from America?
Jayapatāka: He's given me the law, numbers, and he said that it's much higher than he is, but he'll give a recommendation if it comes to him. Apart from that, he told me how it's done.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you take it very seriously?
Jayapatāka: Well, he just told me last week. I heard you were coming, so.... The thing has to be done from Washington, D.C.
Prabhupāda: So our men can do it. You advise them to do the needful.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. You are the cause of this crossbreeding. It is not accident. You are making arrangement; therefore it is.... There is cause. It is not accident. There is no accident. (break) ...man promises that "You just surrender to me; I will take care of you, everything," so whether I shall do it or not?
Acyutānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So why they do not do? Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender, and I take care of."
Acyutānanda: " 'Cause Kṛṣṇa is not here. We can see the man, and we can see him giving us."
Prabhupāda: That means he has no eyes to see. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. I say aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayā... Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. He is within your heart. But that means you are rascal. You do not know to see Kṛṣṇa.
Mr. Dixon: The reason that I was most interested to come is that my responsibilities in Victoria are a lot to do with the growth of our young people, and I think that many of the things that we don't succeed in doing, the problems that we have with drugs and alcohol and all sorts of unhappiness, that what your life indicates has got something that I think we could do well to take parts of it, to be involved in the things, the way in which we live. And I'd be interested to hear from you as to what you would believe might be done to encourage a greater acceptance of your areas of philosophy and religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our philosophy is to purify, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Our philosophy is to purify the core of the heart from all dirty things. This is basic principle of our philosophy, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, cleansing the core of the heart. So just this morning several boys and girls became initiated. So our first promise is, before the Deity, before the fire, before the Vaiṣṇavas, before the spiritual master, that from this day no more illicit sex, no more intoxication, no more meat-eating, no more gambling. This is the first initiation. Then chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Very simple method. But one cannot practice these things without association of devotees. Nobody can do it outside. But here they are able; immediately they give up. All these boys, they were addicted to all these habits, but since they have come to the association, immediately they have given up, instantly. So you can bring any number of young men, and we shall be glad to make him free from all these things, practically engage him. It is open. If you like, you can take advantage.
Guest (3): It's been a very enjoyable experience.
Prabhupāda: No, you can give one book, Īśopaniṣad.
Guru-kṛpā: Can you take one of our books?
Guest (3): Fine. It would be an honor.
Guru-kṛpā: We'll read this. We promise to read this if you promise to read that.
Guest (3): Fine.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of...
Guru-kṛpā: Because he has read.
Prabhupāda: So you can read one of the best portion from this book.
Prabhupāda: Many? What you...? Many followers.... The philosophy you present, it must be followed by everyone. That is wanted. You have got, say, ten thousand followers. That does not mean success. Everyone has got some followers. This.... What is that? Guruji Maharaja. He has got also so-called followers. The T.M., he has got also some followers. Everyone has got some followers. But what kind of followers they have? That is quality. Everything has quality. Simply quantity is not. There are many Christians. Even up to date, some Christian fair or.... Many millions will come. What is the quality? Quality is all meat-eater. But Christian means he should not kill. Where is the Christian? So we have to test by the quality, followers. Not many followers, the quality of the followers. My Guru Mahārāja used to say like that, that "If I get at least one quality disciple, then all my labor will be success." He was saying like that: quality, not the quantity. By quantity if one is amazed, then he is also goru. By quality—what kind of followers? That is the.... From the very beginning my strictures are there, that "You have to follow this"—quality. If I were..., "No, you can do like Vivekananda. Yes, what you can, whatever you like," then I think quantity would have been very, very big. But I don't say. I make him promise before the fire, before the Deity, before guru.
Prabhupāda: But a devotee's view is that whatever may be her inquiry, if she purchases one book, she'll be benefited. This is the point. But you, as big moralist, you, (laughs) you think that he has cheated. He has not cheated. He has benefited her. Somehow or other he has given a book to her. Someday she'll read and she'll benefit. But you people, you think that why we should sell like that, that, "Yes, there is some solution of power shortage." Actually there is, but you think that he has lied. Just like there are sometimes the father's child is suffering from fever. So the father wants that the child may take the medicine, and promises, "You take the medicine. I'll give you this cake." The purpose is not to give the cake actually. The purpose is the child may take the medicine. That is the purpose. But when the father promises that "If you take the medicine I'll give you the cake." But cake is dangerous for the child who is suffering from fever, but still the father allures him. "If you take the medicine and I'll give you cake." So is the father wrong or right?
Bhūrijana: No.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were doing that, previous to the Māyāpur festival.
Prabhupāda: Yes are also promised (indistinct) you have to continue. There is no temple. Must be constructed.
Guru-kṛpā: Do you think... Some of the devotees were expressing that maybe in the front would be better, then they could come in off the street. Otherwise they have to go around the...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Guru-kṛpā: If the building was built in the front, some people were thinking this might be a better spot because if there's no sun back here...
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Guru-kṛpā: ...then it becomes very muddy there.
Prabhupāda: What is the area here?
Prabhupāda: Not now. They sold in the beginning. They're so hopeful now that "We shall go to the moon." Some family (inaudible) "Oh, scientific advancement. Yes, they go to the moon. So I have got money. Why not purchase a ticket so I can go to the moon?" There are many persons in your country who can very easily pay $50,000 for purchasing tickets for going to the moon planet.
Hari-śauri: It's like Rāvaṇa's promise of being able to go to the heavenly planets by climbing up the staircase.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...believed in the words of śāstra. Even I am not scientist, still I shall.... It is all childish. And it has proved childish. I do not say that I am better than the scientists. No. But on the words of śāstra, I say this is childish. They'll never be able to go to the moon. (break) The Americans who are here, mostly they are tourists. They're not residents.
Devotee (6): Some of them are retired, I believe.
Prabhupāda: Some, they're some. Otherwise they are tourists.
Hari-śauri: So it's a question of honesty.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You promise no illicit sex, no, before God, before spiritual master, before fire, and you play hypocrisy. So māyā is not seeing that? How you can avoid? māyā is always there. Yac cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām. You cannot escape the eyes of God in so many different agencies. And still He is personally sitting within your hearts. How you can escape? You may pretend to be a very great devotee, but the Person, Supreme, He is within yourself, He's seeing everything. No cheating with Him. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. "Oh, I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so even I do something wrong, it will be adjusted." Adjusted, when you are sincere, by chance you have done something. That can be adjusted. But not intentionally. As soon as there is intentional cheating, that you'll have to suffer the effect.
Prabhupāda: Scientists or philosophers, their only business is to defy God. All demons.
Bali-mardana: Actually, Prabhupāda, the people are turning away from the scientists now, because they have seen that their promises have not brought anything.
Prabhupāda: And simply, if we can expose that they never went to the moon planet, their life will be finished.
Devotees: Jaya, haribol!
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can we expose that, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: To expose.... They could not answer this simple question, why Sunday first and Monday second? They could not understand, these rascals, I have asked so many. Can you answer this? Can you answer, can any of you, why Sunday first? All over the world, they accept Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and Saturday last. Why? Answer this. Is there anyone?
Hṛdayānanda: What is the answer, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: The answer is sun planet first, then moon planet.
Prabhupāda: We do not say that "If you cannot pay, I will hang you." No. "Pay, try to pay." (static) In our Hyderabad scheme, we have taken three, four lakhs loan from you. And he has taken, Jayapatākā has taken, you know? Nobody has paid me. Till now. But there is promise they will pay.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's good. At least the big temples, Rāmeśvara, in the beginning can certainly afford it.
Rāmeśvara: On a long-term basis.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I won't even, for New York, I won't even take a loan.
Prabhupāda: No, we can forward loan if it is absolutely necessary.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I won't need it. We have the money.
Prabhupāda: Oh, this side also road is becoming...
Jagannātha-sūta: ...cutting off the head when you have a headache.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...in the age of Kali-yuga, difficulties will increase. That's a fact. Very, very difficult. We have passed only five thousand years, and there is balance of 427,000, hundreds of years, thousands. (break) ...only go back to home, back to Godhead. (break) ...has therefore advised that "Don't be engaged in all this nonsense activities, economic development. Simply become Kṛṣṇa conscious." (break) ...promises that "For such persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I'll take charge for their maintenance directly." Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). (break) ...envious of one another. They see that "These people, they do not do anything, and living so comfortably."
Jayatīrtha: That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And in the bills they are writing the.... Why this hypocrisy? Why this hypocrisy? In the schools, colleges, you are forbidding, "Don't talk of God," and on the bills you are writing, "In God We Trust." That means if the bill is not paid, don't be dissatisfied, you trust in God. (laughs) Although I'm giving you a piece of paper, don't hesitate to take it. Trust in God, it will be paid. They write, "I promise to pay," but people may not have faith in this word. Actually, I'm paying you hundred rupees—or a thousand rupees-worth currency note, but actually it is paper. But only on faith and trust I'm accepting it, it is one thousand dollars. That much. In last war, the Germany, marks note were thrown in the street. And the bunch of note, taken to the confectioner, "Give me a piece of bread," There is no bread; they throw away. It happened, actually. So these notes are accepted on the understanding that the government will pay. But time may be there when government may be not able to pay. And it has become practically experienced in the last war. So everything should be done scientifically. If we say that in God we trust, then we must know what is God, whether actually we can put our faith and trust in Him, whether He is trustworthy, what is that God.
Jackie Vaughn: Every one of our presidential candidates is continuing to talk in the same vein, promising and promising all of a temporary nature of solution to our problems.
Prabhupāda: No. Solution is here, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You take this movement after studying it scrutinizingly. You'll find: "Yes, this is the only movement for solution of all problems."
Jackie Vaughn: I think we go back to what you said at the beginning. We trust primarily in the dollar, "In God We Trust."
Prabhupāda: That is only slogan.
Jackie Vaughn: Yeah, right.
Prabhupāda: But if we trust somebody when we know: "Yes, he is trustworthy," that is better. Blindly trusting may not endure. But knowingly trust, that will be beneficial.
Prabhupāda: The government is promising.
Ambarīṣa: Oh, that's good.
Prabhupāda: We have already applied for twenty-five acres. Mr. Candrali,(?) he wanted to make some profit out of it.
Ambarīṣa: Yes.
Devotee (1): I think you won the heart of that government official yesterday by saying that Kṛṣṇa's black and we worship Him. (laughter) He liked that.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Ambarīṣa: Yes, Detroit River, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Big, big ships, they pass under this bridge?
Indian man: Is this agreement due to learning or out of...?
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66), you surrender, you become qualified. You agree, "Yes, I surrender, Kṛṣṇa says." Then immediately you become qualified. But that you do not do. Kṛṣṇa is personally canvassing, but we are not agreeing. What can be done? If I say, with a bag of million dollars, "Take this bag," if you don't agree, then you remain poor man. But you agree, "Yes, without any labor I'm getting the million dollars. Well, all right." Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To come to that Kṛṣṇa consciousness rightly and surrender to Kṛṣṇa, it takes many millions of births. But if one is intelligent, if this is the ultimate goal, that one has to come to this point, to surrender to Vāsudeva, why not do it immediately? That is intelligence. That is intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is canvassing. One has to take millions of births to come to this point, and Kṛṣṇa is personally promising, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Why not take advantage? That means you do not agree. If you agree, the result is immediate. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11).
Prabhupāda: But you are intelligent. Why you are putting the forefather's words? You avoid it. That means you are cheating people. You do not believe in, but you still write it. That means cheating. Why do you write such things in which you do not believe? That means cheating. Hmm? What do you think? If you write something which you do not believe in, are you not cheating? That means cheating. You take word, you are giving a piece of paper, and it is written there, "one thousand dollars." That means you are cheating, in the name of God, he will accept you, that's all. If you say, "No, I don't want paper. Give me gold dollar," then you are finished. Your currency will be finished. Immediately there will be revolution, that "The government is cheating us." Actually it is cheating. What is the proof, value, of this paper, little paper? Simply "I promise to pay, governor and this..." But it is on trust only: "Yes, government will pay me." They'll never pay, but so long the government goes on, it will go on, that's all, cheating will go on. And as soon government fails, you throw in the street, no one will care for it. It has been practically proved in the last war, in Germany. There was scarcity of food, and those who had bunch of currency notes, they went for one piece of bread, so many thousand marks, "Give me." Nobody supplied. So the paper has no value, but if we believe, it has value, that's all. Otherwise what is the meaning of this paper, one thousand dollars? So it is a kind of cheating, "We trust in God; we are very good men. You trust in me."
Prabhupāda: Why gradually? When you promise before your spiritual master that no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, why should you fall down? If you have no determination, why should you promise in presence of the Deity, fire, spiritual master, Vaiṣṇava? Why do you make this farce, if you have no determination? If you want to make it a farce, that depends on you. But you should not.
Devotee (1): When we make that promise...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you should not fall down, that is determination. That is gentleman's determination, that "I have given my promise. Why shall I fall down?" That is determination. "I must respect promise." That is called dṛḍha-vrata. So he'll success. Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. But if we want to cheat, that is another thing. If we have no determination, we should not take up this life. Therefore, chance is given that "Stay with us for six months or one year, be determined. Then be initiated." If you are not determined, what is the use of false initiation?
Prabhupāda: Weakness there, you should rectify weakness. Why you should give any importance to weakness? Weakness is weakness. Rectify it.
Kulādri: This promise is the minimum determination.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Kulādri: This promise of following four regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds daily, that is the minimum determination. Then, from there, he must increase.
Prabhupāda: Initiation means minimum, just beginning. That is the dictionary meaning, initiation. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is a verse, śraddhā-śabde-viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya (Cc. Madhya 22.62). Explain. You understand? Śraddhā, śabde, viśvāsa, sudṛḍha, niścaya. Kṛṣṇe, bhakti, kaile, sarva-karma, kṛta, haya.
Prabhupāda: Formerly in the currency, when you go to take some exchange, it was the etiquette of the teller to ask you, "What you want, silver money, gold money or paper money?" It was their duty. If you say "I want gold money," they will pay in gold money. Not only it is written in the paper, "I promise to pay," but the promise was kept. If he wants, "Give me payment in gold," they will pay. And now, to keep gold, hoarding gold, is illegal. So you cannot ask. This is going on, legalized cheating. You have to accept this paper money. That's all. Don't ask for gold. And there is no honesty at all. I can take paper money for my convenience sake, but how you can force me to take paper money? That is not honesty. So dishonesty begins from the government. You cannot keep gold. If you have kept gold, there will be searching, and if it is found that you have gold, you'll be punished. In India it is now being done. There is no freedom even at your home, in your private life. Formerly, any common man could keep gold according to his desire. There was no such thing. Sometimes he would hide it even within the ground, because there was no bank. At least in India this was the practice. If you have got some gold, you keep it somewhere confidential within the ground so that it may not be stolen. So everyone should have right to keep his money as he likes.
Kīrtanānanda: Our community is gaining in opulence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dhānyena dhanavān. If you have got grain, then you are rich. And if you have got cows, then you are rich. This is the standard of Vedic richness. Dhānyena dhanavān gavayo dhanavān. They don't say, "Keep some papers and you become rich." All rascal, one thousand dollar I promise to pay, a piece of paper. Practical, we have got enough food grains. We have got enough... That is richness. What is use of paper? Even gold you have got, you have to exchange. And if you have grain, immediate food. Just boil with milk, and it is nectarean, param anna, immediately. Take some wood collected from the wood and have fire, put the milk and the grains-oḥ, you'll get so nice food, nutritious, full of vitamin, and so easily made. It is practical. So tasteful, so nutritious, and don't require. If you simply boil little milk and little grain, whole day, so much sweet rice, you take-bas. You don't require any more. And if you add little apples and fruits, oh, it is heavenly. Your whole day free from any food anxiety, and you can work. And you can work. You can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Make this ideal life here. America has got good potency. We have got so much land here. We can have hundreds of New Vrindabans or farms like that. And people will be happy. And invite all the world, "Please come and live with us. Why you are suffering congestion, overpopulation? Welcome here. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Make that. Indian culture and American strength make the whole world happy. That logic even I have given? Andha-paṅgu?
Dr. Sharma: Not to be attached to it.
Prabhupāda: Not attached! It is attachment. "No attachment" means I have earned this two millions dollars, and I throw it away. That is no attachment. But that is also stated, yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam (BG 9.27), "Give that money to Me." Vāmanadeva. "Mahārāja Bali, you are so great personality. Give Me three feet of land." Then He covered the whole universe. So that is Kṛṣṇa's policy. Mā phaleṣu kadācana. Then what shall I do with the result? "Give Me." That is bhakti. He'll not immediately give it up, but Kṛṣṇa as a beggar, as Vāmanadeva, He's asking, "Give Me." If you are actually following Kṛṣṇa's instructions, you'll give it. The actual fact is that you become attached to Kṛṣṇa and detached to everything. But as you cannot do it immediately, this is a policy. The same policy, Vāmanadeva. He went to beg from Bali Mahārāja. So Bali Mahārāja was very munificent, he gave Him, "Yes, promise, whatever You want, I shall give." So He took everything.
Prabhupāda: That is, because it was fight amongst the family members. So He was also related with the Kuru family. His aunt, Kuntī..., Kuntī was married to the Pāṇḍavas. So the family members may not think that He's partial, so He divided Himself into two. His soldiers one side, and He Himself one side. And Arjuna and Duryodhana were present, requesting Him to take their side. So Kṛṣṇa said that "We are all family members, so I divide Myself into two-My soldiers and Myself. So if you want, you take Me or My soldiers, as you like, but if you take Me, I say I'll not fight." So Duryodhana thought that "Kṛṣṇa will not fight and He's prepared to give me soldiers," he took the soldiers, and Arjuna said, "No, I want You." So this was the division. So in the beginning He said that "Even if I go to one side, I'll not fight." So how He could fight? Not that He was not a fighter, but because He promised that "The side which will accept, I'll not fight." But He did not say that "I'll not give you instruction of fighting." That is Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)
Indian man (3): He took the chariot wheel when Bhīṣma pitāmaha was coming to Arjuna. Is that a fight?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is another instance, that for His devotee He can break His promise also. That is Kṛṣṇa. Arjuna... Duryodhana complained to Bhīṣmadeva, that "My dear grandfather, because you have affection for Arjuna and others, you are not fighting properly according to your strength." So at that time Bhīṣma saw that "This man is doubting about my sincerity." So he wanted to show his power, so he said, "All right." He knew everything, he was a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa, so he promised to Duryodhana, that "Tomorrow I shall fight in such a way that either Arjuna will die or Kṛṣṇa will have to break His promise." So he fought in such a way that Arjuna was practically vanquished. At that time, Kṛṣṇa took the wheel of the chariot and came before Him, that "Bhīṣma, you stop this fight, otherwise I'll kill you." So Bhīṣma said, "Yes, I am stopping my fight, because You have broken Your promise, that's all." This is the dealing between God and His devotee. There is competition of devotional service. There are so many things. But on the whole, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, the supreme authority; His instruction is final, and anyone who can understand this, his life is successful. Therefore our request is that don't make unnecessary useless interpretation. You take Bhagavad-gītā as it is and act accordingly, your life will be successful. This is our mission. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But if you cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā, we can try to explain before you what it is. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Ford. So what improvement you have done by having this President or that President? What improvement you'll make unless some false promise? That's all. What is the improvement? You have changed so many hundreds and thousands of Presidents, but what is the improvement about spiritual knowledge?
Bali-mardana: Prabhupāda sees everything spiritually.
Interviewer: How's that?
Bali-mardana: He's seeing everything spiritually. What is the improvement spiritually out of all these Presidents? So therefore we do not care.
Interviewer: You do not care what the President...
Prabhupāda: We take care, but we take care more for the spirit soul than the body. That is our basic principle.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we will double the amount of people, promise.
Bali-mardana: And double the prasādam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We will double everything if you are here, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. I can stay here also. I like especially New York, because I started the movement here. And because there are so many branches, if I go they become enlivened.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, right, just like we are enlivened.
Prabhupāda: Everyone wants.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone wants you to come.
Prabhupāda: That is natural.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere is my home. Not that India.... If I am attached to India, then how I am sannyāsī? (laughter)
Bhagavān: And every other day I will give you a new book. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Where is?
Hari-śauri: You have to keep it, too, when you promise.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Bhagavān: So we can plan that. Thank you very much, Srila Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotees: All glories to Srila Prabhupāda. (break)
Prabhupāda: Western people, they are not only fool but misbehaved. Paścime loka saba mūḍha anārya.
Hari-śauri: And the further West you go, the worse they become.
Prabhupāda: In India, from Bengal you go Western side. They are very filthy. And go more, more, more Western-filthy, filthy, filthy, filthy.
Hari-śauri: Seems they're always carrying little snippets of information about what we're doing. Before there was a report about the restaurants, and here there's two reports about..., one about the Jagannātha festival in New York and one about the proposed Vedic university in Kurukṣetra. These were on consecutive days. The one about New York, it says, "Washington, July the 19th." That's where it's reported from. It says, "New York saw on Sunday an unusual spectacle of three brightly colored chariots being pulled along the city's prestigious Fifth Avenue from Central Park to Washington Square, a distance of about five kilometers, by members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa group. The rathas, built in Orissan style with giant wooden wheels, attracted large crowds of spectators all along the route. It was a novel experience for the New Yorkers. Many resident Indians who are not members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement enthusiastically gave a hand in the pulling. The Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees were celebrating the feast of Jagannātha in the traditional Indian way. The police and the city administration readily cooperated. In a city that is coming to be known for its tolerance of diverse cultures, chariot processions promise to be an annual event. While a few citizens booed and some altercations were reported, the spectacle was well received by the New Yorkers. 'I think it is great,' the New York Times quoted a man as saying. The person, who identified himself as a visitor to New York and was not a Hare Kṛṣṇa fan, referring to the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, added, 'They are all happy and dancing, and that's what life's all about.' Later a vegetarian feast was served to the admirers."
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Prabhupāda: Sadācāra is there. But these people, asadācārī, and passing as sannyāsī. Cigarette, meat-eating and everything, drinking. We are asking common men to give it up, and they say, "Oh, what is the wrong there?" They do not know what is the wrong there. This time in Iran we initiated some Iranian. Some Afghans also coming.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have Arabic Īśopaniṣad ready for printing that was translated by your Lebanese disciple.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that he has done. He promised...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Motaji. He told me to give it to him and he'd print it on his press.
Prabhupāda: Give this light. (break)
Indian man: Chinese, German, French, Italian, English...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Swedish is coming.
Prabhupāda: Dutch. Dutch.
Prabhupāda: Tea. Tea can... Then he'll caught. That is not.
Gargamuni: Because the old man they are addicted to the tea.
Prabhupāda: No, what... Many old men, they can give it up.
Gargamuni: We will promise them cow's milk.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Gargamuni: Pure cow's milk.
Prabhupāda: That "instead of this tea, you take milk." Little milk, that is beneficial. So membership should be clearly defined so that they may not misunderstand.
Gargamuni: But we're not having trouble now...
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Prabhupāda: Big bank is better. And who pays the best price.
Saurabha: The best. And also the facilities. Now, in the floor we start tiling, the basement floor... Under the Deities there we have a basement. So there we have started the flooring, tiling, and now we have decided on all the other parts of the building, for the stone. So they promised, they guaranteed, that at the end of this year the building—that means the guesthouse—will be completed. And of course, that includes the temple. The only thing which will definitely go on is the marble work, the carving. That is a very big job. But that we can always continue. That is mainly outside work, finishing. So that we get the inside ready for the opening.
Prabhupāda: ISKCON Juhu? That is sufficient address?
Saurabha: Well, this was hand-delivered. It would be nice if... I think now it is sufficient. Many letters come like that now.
Prabhupāda: No, we are famous now, Juhu.
Prabhupāda: No, if they promise they will give up, then we can give.
Mahāṁśa: I already told them, "You please..." They said they will give up but I said that you...
Prabhupāda: No, if they promise you can give.
Mahāṁśa: But, they are waiting, what shall I tell them now? I just now told them...
Prabhupāda: No, tell them that, "If you promise from today you will give up..."
Mahāṁśa: They promised.
Prabhupāda: Then we shall give it.
Mahāṁśa: All five of them?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. If they have promised, we shall give. Simply you don't break promise. You have promised—do it. That's all.
Prabhupāda: If they'll promise, that's all right.
Mahāṁśa: So I'll tell them like that. Okay. Then the names and beads will be given downstairs by Your Grace? You'll be coming down?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: They should be wearing their neckbeads before. At least two lines.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa will recognize your service. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). You are distributing this knowledge, so you become immediately recognized, very dear servant, very confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa. He says personally. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu (BG 18.69). "Amongst the human beings those who are doing this preaching, nobody is dearer than these persons to Me—anyone." You have read that?
Prabhupāda: Rest, if I rest then there may be... Because I am dealing with all neophytes. If I don't keep them alive by personal presence... Still they are doing nice. I have appointed twenty secretaries all over the world. I am training them. They are managing. Managing nicely. I have been in New York and Los Angeles and Hawaii, all big, big centers. London, Paris.
Indian man (3): Oh, it's a very great. Your program for Kurukṣetra and etc. and the...
Prabhupāda: Program was that they promised to give me land.
Indian man (3): Who?
Prabhupāda: That chief minister.
Indian man (3): Have they done so?
Prabhupāda: Not yet.
Indian man (3): I had about 2 acres was available, except that. (talks about land he owns-indistinct)
Prabhupāda: We are trying for another big scheme in Bengal. We have applied to the government to acquire land, 350 acres, a big planetarium. Planetarium. We have described the planetarium in our Fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In that planetarium it is said that the moon is above the sun planet. By one million six hundred thousand miles.
Prabhupāda: Nobody's bona fide, that's all. This is their conclusion. Because they have confronted with some non-bona fide, they have concluded that everyone is non-bona fide.
Hari-śauri: It's very easy just to try to brush it all under the couch and forget about it.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) A man's household utensils was taken by the thief. He promised, "I shall not purchase anymore utensils, I shall eat on the floor. (laughs) Because the thief has stolen my plates, I'm not going to purchase anymore, I shall eat on the floor. (Bengali)
Hari-śauri: They give the example that just because someone may be passing counterfeit money, that doesn't mean that all the money you get...
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. They conclude that no more take any money, all counterfeit. At least in India, Bhagavad-gītā is there, accepted, the God-science literature all over the world.
Dr. Kneupper: That's what they write.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but they don't believe in God. Hypocrisy. Because if they trust in God, then they could not cheat that "I am paying you one thousand dollars by some papers." This is cheating. And promise, "In God I Trust." Is that money? So this cheating is begun from the government. Now, how the people will be honest? Everywhere, in all government, they are giving you some papers and you accept it as money. This is not brainwash. Just see. They are educating people that "I promise to pay. This is money," but actually he's receiving some papers. This is not brainwash. And we are talking of God, that is brainwash.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Devotee: Now if we build a temple that's 6,500 square feet, quite a large size, that would come out to $260,000 and on down to 3,600 square feet which would be about $144,000. I've collected about $100,000 on my own and I have another person who promised somewhere between fifteen and twenty-five and by the time that three or four months have... Actually we couldn't build until about six or seven months anyways so by this time...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...that Kṛṣṇa will (indistinct) money.
Devotee: Also another thing, this is... You may remember when you were in Los Angeles last time, Kṛṣṇa-kanti and Mangalananda asked you if they could do this contemporary style music with Kṛṣṇa lyrics. So this is the very first copy. Actually there's not much to see it's just like any other album. This is the first test pressing.
Hari-śauri: He has a cassette which you can listen to some time if you want.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I can listen. Play it.
Prabhupāda: Why you joined them?
Mahākṣa: I did not know. I thought it would be a good opportunity. They promised me they would give us a good program and good accommodation. When we got there, they did not like that we were very popular. (tape breaks up throughout) Then Mr. Bishop (indistinct) brother, T.C. (break) ...tour, he is a good man. He came with... (break) He is one of the most respected men in Bareilly. He forced them to put the program back again. So we did again the same evening. The people there love our program. They are all supposed... They have pictures of Caitanya Mahāprabhu on the stage and they're supposed to be following Him but they sing all these sahajiyā sort of songs and they sit down and it's all gṛhasthas. There's no, There's no real...
Prabhupāda: They want business.
Prabhupāda: So do they require here?
Haṁsadūta: I sent all the men here because Mahāṁśa promised that there would be a program lined up but there is no program. That's why they're just... Now they all want to go, and if they can go I can send them. They are ready to go. They don't want to stay.
Prabhupāda: So?
Mahāṁśa: The problem is that the programs I didn't arrange because the devotees were not regular in coming. I didn't know when they were all coming. So if I arrange a program that means my men...
Prabhupāda: But therefore the meeting is here. Do here now.
Mahāṁśa: Yes, now it can be done. But I couldn't do...
Prabhupāda: So it can be done. Why can you...? What? When it will be done, do then.
Prabhupāda: Don't make future promise. You do it immediately. Make program. But settle up when it will begin, when it is right. Here work is going on. That Mṛtyu, he cannot... No? Mūrti. So he cannot manage without him?
Mahāṁśa: He can. He has to be a little more acquainted with the people. He has to...
Prabhupāda: He is here from the last June. He is not acquainted?
Mahāṁśa: He's only here since about ten days. He's not here for a long time and he's not very forceful in making them do the work.
Prabhupāda: So who will be forceful?
Mahāṁśa: He can be trained. I'm training him.
Prabhupāda: So that training... Everyone is under training; then who will be head? If in old age you have to be trained up, then when they will be trained up? So what is the..., to sit down silently? That's all?
Mahāṁśa: We'll send the parties out...
Prabhupāda: Make. Make immediately program, where to go. So why you are not making?
Mahāṁśa: Now? Here?
Prabhupāda: Yes, make program immediately. Write what to do.
Haṁsadūta: I just wrote down all the leaders. Ātmavidyā, Puṇyaśloka, Rājasāra. Otherwise I can go anywhere without fixing a program. I can go to any city. If no one is going to fix the program, I can go anywhere. That I was doing already. I came here because you promised me that in every city you know people, you can fix program. So fix them and then we'll go there. Otherwise there is no need to send anyone. We'll just go there and stay in a dharmaśālā.
Prabhupāda: So why not go, one or two men, to fix up program?
Haṁsadūta: In Nagpur, a city like Nagpur, you say you have members. Send some man who knows them from your temple. He makes some arrangement. We go there, make a nice program.
Mahāṁśa: Okay.
Prabhupāda: So who is going Nagpur? Write that.
Prabhupāda: Hm. As far as possible, our men should cook, a professional man who is in good habit, who has promised that they will not do this smoking. We have to manage somehow.
Mahāṁśa: As far as our devotees' cooking, it's practically impossible. We have tried so hard. They just can't do it. Yesterday two of the boys tried to help, and the rice was not cooked because it was not done and he burned his leg. The water fell on his leg, and he couldn't handle the pots properly and he got... Now the poor boy, he is suffering. He's got a wounded leg, one of the German boys, the one with long hair. So our devotees, they are not... This boy, Bengali boy, Divid (?), he's good. He can do it but he needs at least four or five men to help.
Tejas: He was a professional cook but he's not... He can't do it himself. He needs too much...
Mahāṁśa: He needs at least four people to help. It's a big cooking, so it's also very difficult for one man to do and nobody wants to help the cooking because it's so hot, the smoke goes in the eyes and it's very troublesome. So nobody wants to help in the cooking, devotees.
Prabhupāda: Not willing. They are not willing.
Prabhupāda: Politics. Senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta. Senayor ubhayor madhye. (BG 1.21) "Between the two soldiers, keep my chariot, my dear Acyuta." He is addressing Acyuta. Acyuta, Kṛṣṇa, agreed to become his chariot driver. Therefore he is purposefully using this word acyuta. "Because I know You are the Supreme Lord, and I am ordering You, but because You promised that You will carry my order, Acyuta, You never fail in Your word." So God's another name is Acyuta. God never falls down. This Māyāvādī theory that "I am God, now I am fallen down," That is wrong theory. How God can fall down? If God falls down He is not God. Dog falls down, not the God.
Prabhupāda: That is the real civilization. Soul is enwrapped with this material body and it has to be stopped. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). That is civilization. And he has no knowledge, na te viduḥ, what is the civilization. Then andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The rascal leader is also blind and the followers are blind, so both of them are doomed. Therefore the conclusion is, the modern civilization is misguided. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. Big, big leaders, they promises big, big ideal that "I shall give you this facility. Just elect me." What facility he will give? No facility. He gives some false promise and gets his election and claps. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He does not know what is the aim of life. Puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. He is animal also. And the other animals clapping, "Oh, we have got such a big leader." Big elephant, yes. (laughter) And elephant he may be, but he is, after all, a animal. What he'll do? Misguided. Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. You don't require any covering?
Guest (2): No, I do, but...
Guest (1): (Hindi) My daughter.
Prabhupāda: I have not seen him?
Guest (1): He used to come.
Prabhupāda: Oh. No, they are sympathetic.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They have promised that after they complete their building, their temple in Janma Bhumi they will give us money regularly. Now they are diverting all their funds to complete that building in Janma Bhumi.
Prabhupāda: No, if we want management of that Janma Bhumi they can give it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That Janma Bhumi?
Prabhupāda: I can take it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we can't.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So Prabhupāda, I was just finalizing today this year's festival when the devotees come. I think instead of having a festival, a pandal in Delhi like we had last year. We had one in Ludhiana and Mathurā. In Ludhiana Caityaguru promises that he can raise money for the whole thing. Our devotees won't have to spend a penny. In Delhi if we do a pandal it will require an investment of at least twenty thousand rupees. If we do our festival in Ludhiana, book distribution I calculated will be as good and no money will be invested. We have a festival in Mathurā in Janma Bhumi. Every evening by buses devotees will go from Vṛndāvana to Mathurā. You wanted to have a big program there, you remember? When I was in Vṛndāvana. So we can invite different leaders also.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Every house. Even there are Muhammadan house, they observe Janmāṣṭamī. I know that. One professor in Allahabad, Kavi or something like... I went to his place. He's a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's one big movie star... Not very big. Sanjaya Khan. He's Muslim, but he wears a pendant of Kṛṣṇa always. He's our member. He's promised us a donation of ten thousand rupees after his picture is released. Many Muslims we have members now.
Prabhupāda: No, he's Indian Muslim. We have got Iranian Muslims. They are our devotees, many there.
CID Chief: Well, sir, I would like to remain here, but now I have to go to my office.
Prabhupāda: So give prasāda. Bring prasāda.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Prasāda also.
Prabhupāda: No, bring here. Jaya.
Prabhupāda: I read that letter.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I told him to do the Gītā because he was very, very anxious, and I found that he was the most enthusiastic. So he's already completed... He promises me by February it will be completed.
Prabhupāda: If he's enthusiastic, let him do.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He knew that we gave to Dr. Poliwal so he said, "I will do it. Don't let her do it." So at the present moment three people are doing the Gītā. There's another professor in Lucknow who I told to do also. We don't know whose will be perfect. But I think Rajiv is most enthusiastic to do it. I think Poliwal's will be little slow. And then we can see whose Hindi was the best.
Prabhupāda: That you do not know very much.
Trivikrama: Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira the same.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone. Everyone knew their position. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is addressed by Arjuna, "Acyuta, You promised to drive my chariot, therefore I'm asking You. Don't forget. You never deviate from Your promise." Acyuta. Senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me 'cyuta (BG 1.21). "Don't forget that You are Acyuta. Don't think that I am Your servant, I am ordering." He knows that "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. I am ordering Him."
Haṁsadūta: You were explaining to that reporter in Pennsylvania, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that actually this women's liberation is just a trick by the men.
Prabhupāda: Yes! It is trick by the men, yes.
Prabhupāda: "Return my son." And "Take your son." And then he was asked, and he was silent. So mother began to cry. So I promised that "I shall send your son. He'll go. Don't bother." His father, mother came. And many father, mother come to give me thanks, "Swamiji, it is great fortune of our country that you have come."
Guest (10): Similar instance about a man swami also, Parsee boy who is now in Hyderabad.
Girirāja: Mahāṁsa.
Prabhupāda: Her (His) said, mother in the beginning she opposed. Yes, she is happy now.
Guest (10): She wants to meet you, Prabhupāda. Can I bring her tomorrow?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ. Kariṣye vacanam. This is liberation: "Now I am fixed up," sthito 'smi, "All doubts gone." This is real study of Bhagavad-gītā. And promises, kariṣye vacanam: "All right, I shall fight. I shall kill Bhiṣmadeva. Never mind he's my grandfather. No question of nonviolence. I shall commit violence." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because naṣṭo mohaḥ... "It was my mohaḥ. I was thinking in that way, that 'He's my grandfather. He's my brother. He's my nephew.' These are all nonsense. I have to satisfy You." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). That is ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Bhakti means to act to satisfy to Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. Without any argument, what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all right.
Prabhupāda: In 1920 I came to Bhuvaneśvara. So I was thronged with so many beggars. So at that time I promised, "If I bring at least"—in those days—"more than one thousand rupees to distribute to the beggars, then I shall come. I'll not come." (laughs) I thought like that. Means whatever money I had I will distribute. Still, they are thronging, the beggars. So much beggars have now come. Beggars. Very poor country.
Gargamuni: We could have very big prasādam distribution there, in Purī. Right on the beach we could set up a whole prasāda distribution.
Prabhupāda: If you arrange for prasāda distribution, you become very popular.
Rāmeśvara: None of the tourists who are Westerners ever takes Jagannātha prasādam, do they?
Prabhupāda: No, if there is good prasādam, they'll take.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Caitanya Mahāprabhu... No. We are prepared to take you also. Why not? It is not difficult. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when accepted Jagāi-Mādhāi, so Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddharilo tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. So the evidence is not that, by words. But evidence... So how? How He accepted? When Jagāi-Mādhāi, after injuring Nityānanda, so Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very angry that "I shall kill them!" So at that time Nityānanda begged, "Sir, You have promised not to take weapon in this avatāra. So excuse them." So as soon Nityānanda Prabhu said like that, both the brothers fell down on the feet of Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "Sir. Excuse us. We have done wrong. So please deliver us. We are most sinful." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You are sinful. That is not disqualification. But if you want My āśraya, then you stop this sinful life. No more. Whatever you have done, that's all right. I excuse you. But no more." So they said, āra nare bāp: "Bas, whatever we have done." So this is wanted. But if we continue to take shelter of Caitanya Mahāprabhu or His representative, at the same time continue our sinful activities, that is not desirable.
Prabhupāda: That any insane man can say. Any crazy man can say. "Trust no future, however pleasant." "You are rascal. You are believing in the future. You have not show us, because in the past you could not do. There is no history. In the present you cannot do. So how shall I believe that in future you'll do?" So any rascal promises like that, so we take him as a rascal. That's all.
Satsvarūpa: What about our promise, in the future also, that you go to Kṛṣṇa in the future?
Prabhupāda: We have got proof. Kṛṣṇa says. We believe in Kṛṣṇa. You believe in some rascal; we believe in Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). So we believe that. That's all. We have got evidence. You have no evidence. You are simply suggesting in future you'll do. But we have got evidence.
Gargamuni: Sometimes they ask, "Show us somebody who's come."
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Gargamuni: "Show us someone who has come from there."
Prabhupāda: Many.
Satsvarūpa: The first time?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll promise... You have got five thousand dollars. They'll promise 100,000 dollars' property you'll get, and how it will be done, this scheme, that scheme... "We'll do this scheme, that..." Then they will take five thousand dollars from you, and they will say, "Now it is finished. Now bring more money." Then further made... That lawyer who was trying to give me a permanent visa?
Satsvarūpa: Yeah, some Greek name.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Fishlington or something like that.
Prabhupāda: Not difficult, but it requires elevation. So we should not imitate.
Guest (1): No, I mean desires... Just like your idol worship. Idol worship is not actually fruitless or anything. It's only to imagine God in it and just to have the concentration.
Prabhupāda: No, but idol worship is... These atheists, they say "idol worship," but we do not say. The... Here is Sākṣi-Gopāla. You know the story, Sākṣi-Gopāla? Two brāhmaṇas? So he never saw that He is idol. He saw Kṛṣṇa. So he said, "Kṛṣṇa, before You this man has promised. Now he's declining. So please come and give witness." And that is Sākṣi-Gopāla. So for a devotee, no. There is no idol.
Prabhupāda: Somehow or other, it must come. He has promised that he will collect half.
Satsvarūpa: That's right. And whatever he collects, you said you would...
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Satsvarūpa: I heard that he was told whatever he collects you would match that or match half of it.
Prabhupāda: Hm, hm, hm. Gargamuni may go and organize in Dacca. That will be a great service. He was speaking of going to Dacca. That will be greater service.
Satsvarūpa: I thought they were going mostly for the library work.
Prabhupāda: Whatever... No, he says there is possible, that Gauḍīya Maṭha. If in Pakistan, in Bangladesh, if he can organize one center, it will be great triumph.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Again making. These rascals can promise...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Slowly.
Prabhupāda: While slowly, then life will be automatically finished. Instead of seeing success, he'll be... He will die. Sarthe sarthe dal puriya gelun.(?) One man was to go to a fair, so he began to dress himself nicely. So dressing, dressing, in the meantime the fair is finished. (laughs) This is their program. You require water immediately: "All right, after three hundred millions of-water." This is science, all rascals. I use very strong word, but actually... Simply promising, no solution of problems. They do not know even what is what. But big, big words, jugglery of words... They are themselves rascals, and some rascals praise them, "Oh, you are..." Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). What they can do? Real problem, there is no solution. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Big, big scientists, why they not make provision that "My dear students, when I shall be dying, you give this pill and I shall again...," or "I am manufacturing another brain like me. You can utilize it"? Where is that science? The scientific brain of Einstein, he could not prepare another brain like his. Hm? Was he able to do that?
Prabhupāda: That is... Therefore he's budhāḥ. Iti matvā. When he understands that there is a big scientist who has made all these things, iti matvā, he understands that. Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. "Oh, my great scientist is Kṛṣṇa." And dṛḍha-vratāḥ. "Oh, here is the scientist. Why shall I go to the rascal scientist? Simply jugglery of words." They cannot make even an egg, and they are promising life, and we come from chemicals. They cannot study even the what contents of the egg, what is the con... We can see in our naked eyes. There is some white substance, yellow substance, covered. You do it. You are claiming chemical. You cannot study even the chemicals from the egg. Hm? What do you think, scientist? Do you know what is the chemical?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you make another egg with the chemicals and bring life?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In principle they can make all chemicals in the egg.
Prabhupāda: No, no, they can make, but...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they don't make life.
Prabhupāda: Then why do you say that life comes from chemicals? Why do you make this false propaganda? That is our protest. You cannot do, it and still you make false propaganda.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In principle... Last month in December, this Khorana... He's from M.I.T., the Indian who got Nobel Prize a few years ago. He's one of the big scientists in this, called, molecular biology. Actually he synthesized this code gene, one of the small fragments of... They're called DNA molecule. It's supposed to be the molecule for all living systems. So the promise was about ten years ago...
Prabhupāda: Again promise. That promise we don't want.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, the promise was about ten years ago that once they synthesized this gene, complete synthesis, then they'll be able to make life...
Prabhupāda: "They will be." Again promise.
Prabhupāda: Then why do you talk nonsense if it is not working? Therefore you are nonsense.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So actually it is good. But we have come to a point now even in science that their promises are all going to go wrong.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we want to prove. That is our propaganda. Therefore we have engaged you. Prove that they are all rascals. They are giving false promise.
Yogeśvara: But then they will say "We have produced so many successes also."
Prabhupāda: What is nonsense success? We don't take that success!
Yogeśvara: Well, we have polio vaccine, we have aspirin.
Prabhupāda: I am so successful that I am going to die tomorrow. I am so successful.
Prabhupāda: Quantity. Minimum number.
Satsvarūpa: If you can't chant all day—you have other business—at least make a quota and chant that every day. In our... Prabhupāda's disciples, we promise to chant at least sixteen rounds on the beads, japa-mālā, every day. One round is 108 mantras.
Guest (2): Sixteen rounds.
Satsvarūpa: Yes. Sixteen of those rounds at least.
Prabhupāda: It comes to twenty-five thousand. So Haridāsa Ṭhākura was chanting three lakhs. That is not possible. Twenty-five thousand minimum. Now you can increase as much as you like.
Guest (3): Is there a difference between Rāma and Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No difference. Rāma is Bhagavān. Kṛṣṇa is Bhagavān. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. Bhagavān has got many incarnations: Nṛsiṁha-deva, Varāhadeva, Rāma, Rāma, Paraśurāma, Balarāma, Dāśarathi Rāma. So whomever you like, you can worship.
Prabhupāda: Beneficial, but you must fill up your promise, vow, that "I shall chant." Dṛḍha-vrata. First be dṛḍha-vrata. If your chanting is not finished, you should give up your sleeping. You must try to finish. That is called dṛḍha-vrata. So whatever promise, quota—"I must finish it." Stop all other business. That is called dṛḍha-vrata. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Find out this verse, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha (BG 9.13). No, then satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14).
Satsvarūpa: Not mahātmānas? Next one. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14).
Prabhupāda: Dṛḍha-vrata. If you have no dṛḍha-vrata, (laughing) that is no vow. So that dṛḍha-vrata means you must promise that "I shall chant at least, minimum, so many times." That is called dṛḍha-vrata.
Prabhupāda: And you did not send to the reporters and the...? No.
Hari-śauri: Did you give these figures to the reporters at the airport?
Rāmeśvara: Well, we want to have a press conference tomorrow.
Gargamuni: We're going to have... At the Calcutta Book Fair we finished decorating our pandal. It promises to be very successful. We're just opposite the Americans, who have spent fifty thousand rupees, the American Embassy. And next door to us is the German Embassy, and on the other side is the British Embassy. So we're in a very good spot, and we'll have all our books. We'll have the displays as well as the movie, the BBT movie, and we have our men there, who will take orders and sell books. It starts tomorrow afternoon. And we'll have a press conference also and release these figures.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Prabhupāda: What do you think, this idea?
Tripurāri: Well, we tried it a little bit in the United States, but I think that the major difficulty was getting the people to pay. They would pay, perhaps promise to pay, but then they wouldn't follow through. We were afraid they would cancel the order.
Prabhupāda: That you have to manage, how to collect. You give him in credit, but keep men also to collect.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Collection agency.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then it will be successful. You can give it... Americans are expert to take in credit, but the banking arrangement is nice, that they get back. Similarly, you give them credit. They will take it and then make such machinery that it will be collected. Collected means to go and ask. Then it will be collected.
Prabhupāda: Knowing or no knowing, they'll not do with him. So what is the use of consulting me? They'll break. They'll promise and they'll break. How you can make them standardized? They will break.
Rādhā-vallabha: They have to be responsible people.
Prabhupāda: They'll never become. That is my experience. So what is the use of consulting me? They'll never become. Almost impossible. They'll not keep standardized.
Rādhā-vallabha: So it should just be up to them.
Prabhupāda: What is the use of consulting? They'll promise and they'll break.
Prabhupāda: Again time, time-taking. (laughter)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...the matter is completely to be decided. He said, "Either religion wins or we win." He said, "It will be decided pretty soon." I think it is already decided, because we promised about ten years ago that those chemicals, if we make those, then we'll have life in a test tube. But actually we have all those chemicals made. So I said, "We have the know-hows. We have the equipments. We have all the chemicals. But still we can't do it." So that means it's...
Prabhupāda: It is failure. You cannot do.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in principle he agreed that science plays...
Prabhupāda: And Bhagavad-gītā clearly said, it is different thing completely. It is not matter. Nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi. Where is that thing which cannot be cut into pieces? Bring that, any scientist. Bring that thing which cannot be cut by scientific method. Bring that thing which cannot be burned. That is stated. Find out the verse. You cannot neglect the statement of Kṛṣṇa.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. For the time being actually, we are planning to finish up some of the articles that we have been writing. We want to make it in a final form. So the other two scientists are also here. The answer has to be printed, and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa promised me he could print it in our Bombay BBT. So we are just about ready to print about a few articles so that we can print as a monograph. Then, in about three months or so, I'm planning to leave for the States by the first week of April or so.
Prabhupāda: First week of?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: First week? What did...?
Prabhupāda: So you cannot deny, "There is no God." That is not possible. The earth is the mother. They say "mother country," "mother earth." And everything is coming out from the earth. Beginning from the aquatic animals, grass, they are coming from material elements, either from water or from earth. That we can see. And they are coming from fire also, but we cannot see. But they are. It is common sense. If life can come from water, fire... Fire is also one of the elements, five elements. So from fire also... Therefore it is said, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Because it is coming from fire, therefore fire cannot harm the living entity. So mother is there, children are there. Where is the father? This is the logic. And the father is coming personally, "Yes, I am father." Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Then where is the chance for denying the existence of father? No. There is no chance, there is no logic. And the father is so rich, so powerful, so kind. And you are not taking shelter of your father. Your actual father, so great, so rich, so intelligent, so opulent. He promises, "My dear son, you surrender, I will give you all protection." He is giving protection. Still, He is assuring, and, still you will not take shelter? That is intelligent? That is envy. Everyone can take. Everyone is suffering for misuse of their intelligence, denying the authority of God. And everyone can take advantage. We are giving them knowledge. Without any exception, everyone can take. This is our line. Accept the father, the bona fide father. Take protection from Him. He is able to give you everything.
Prabhupāda: All temple.
Saurabha: Well, everything that will be marble, I can't say. Marble is very difficult, because people that are available in India, they are from Makrana, Muhammadan people, and they are very difficult to work with. They don't always keep up, they don't always do what they promise. But otherwise, by July, practically, the building should be ready.
Prabhupāda: There is no way to engage them to work properly?
Saurabha: Yes. At the moment I have... It is going nicely. I have been with people in Makrana and about forty people here which is very... I don't think there are many projects in India where they have so many. But there are always things happening. Political sometimes. Sometimes they ask a lot of money. Because they are all related. They are all family members. Like one big family. So if something happens and they are not pleased with it, then they, everyone...
Prabhupāda: So make arrangement so that they are not displeased.
Prabhupāda: Chewing something, just like sugar candy. You have chewed it, taken all the juice, you have thrown it away. Another man is chewing it. It is like that. Indira Gandhi also promised so many things, and she is now out, and somebody is speaking something.
Mr. Koshi: Morarji now.
Prabhupāda: Anyone. And in some day he will not be there, somebody will come. That is the history of the whole world. But that will not benefit the human society, politics. It is useless. This knowledge will help make the solution. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). We are suffering in this material condition, and He is delivering from this. That is real upakāra. That's the repetition of history, politics.
Mr. Koshi: But it has been going on for quite some time.
Prabhupāda: It is going on, but time immemorial. That is not the solution.
Girirāja: Very nice. Actually, about two years ago there was a propaganda in the West that if you are afraid of sinning, then it means that you don't have full faith in Jesus Christ. Because he has promised to accept your sinful reactions. So therefore if you sin, then it means that you have full faith that he will accept the reaction.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said those people should be hanged immediately.
Prabhupāda: When the Bible has said, that after death one goes to hell or heaven? If Jesus Christ has taken a contract, then where is the question of going to hell?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that is for people who don't sign the contract with him. That is what they say. As long as you say that you accept Jesus, then you are going to heaven for sure.
Prabhupāda: So then Jesus Christ accepted sinful reaction of a certain class of men. He is not universal.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Hindi Bhāgavatam has been very appreciated, after the lamination that plastic coating we have put, it looks better. Actually the presentation is even better than the Spanish Bhāgavatams. I got some new, even improved binding, bound books today. I'll send them to you tonight or tomorrow. They look very first class. I am sending Prem Yogi back to Vṛndāvana tomorrow, because First Canto, Part Two, is almost composed. So it requires to be proofread before I bring it to Bombay for printing. So the work is just being delayed. And also there is just one week's work left on First Canto, Part Three. So I told him to go back to Vṛndāvana for two weeks, and if you go to Srinagar, I promised him I would send him to Srinagar, because he wants to go to a cold climate. Then after that...
Prabhupāda: Yes. If I go I will call him.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. So this way he was encouraged because he wants...
Prabhupāda: There was another place, Solen.
Prabhupāda: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Even in old days they were dealing with this politics. What they will do good to the people? But they do not know. This is disease. They do not study the whole history of the world. What Gandhi has done? What Hitler has done? What Napoleon has done? And what they will do? But they are applauded. "He is promising within one year poverty will be driven away." All false propaganda. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Vimūḍhātmā. Rascals. They are promising so many things. They will never be able to do anything. And they are applauded.
Guest (1): I think they should be invited here to see what is being done.
Prabhupāda: No, they know it. Study the whole history of the world. What the big, big leaders have done? They are not new leaders. Before them, all over the world there were big, big leaders. Napoleon promised so many things. At last, he had to drink horse's urine and die. When he was captured by the Englishmen he wanted water and he was given horse urine. Envisioned, "I shall make my promise, the most important stage." The Britishers, so many, Gladstone, Churchill, Lloyd George(?), British Empire. Have they done any benefit? Indira made plan, Nehru family will be English terrorist. Now what is her position? So they studying history. Still, they are promising. Mūḍha.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the great saintly persons, their works have done good for generations in thousands of years.
Prabhupāda: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Become rājarṣi, try to understand what Kṛṣṇa says. Duṣkṛtinaḥ mūḍhāḥ. They will manufacture. Morarji Desai, he promised within ten years. Whether he will live ten years? He is already eighty. So this is the time for promising? This is the time for retiring for understanding Kṛṣṇa. You know. This man is rotting in the hospital, he's promising so many things.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you advised Gandhi that he should retire.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I advised Gandhi that he should retire. He never retired. That's all right. And our program is, they have chucked out. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. You show your all nonsense ability up to fifty years. Don't go more than that. Because you are rascal, you will never be able to do anything, but jump like monkey up to fifty years, not more than that. Monkey jumping may be continued up to fifty years. Then retire. They will continue monkey jumping up to the last point of death.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Wonderful Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Yes. If simply they appreciate that Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, their life will be successful. This very simple thing. A child can do it. Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, there is no doubt. Let them admit only. They will be pushed forward in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I'll request only these big, big men that maintain this institution to attract intelligent persons from all over the world. And you do all nonsense, whatever you like, but maintain this. And if possible, after retirement come and do practical something. What is this nonsense? Andhā yathāndhair upa... What he will do? They are promising so many rascal things. What you will do? What you have got? Indira promised so many things. Bluffed. What she can do? Now she is, herself, Indira Gandhi. Te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Īśa-trantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. They want to do something. What happens? Gandhi, when he started nonviolence, "Within one year" And he dragged for fifty years. Twenty years in Durban and thirty years in India. Could not do anything. If you say that Gandhi could not do anything, people will be angry.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The rascals also argue that... The materialists argue that we're being cheated.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The materialists' argument is that we are being cheated by being promised something imaginary.
Prabhupāda: We are not discussing that, but you are cheating—that is practical. You are cheating. Your government is cheating, giving a piece of paper, cheating me that "You get hundred rupees."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And their cheating in so many... Just like they were paying ninety rupees for a vasectomy, to make someone impotent, to make them sterile, they're giving ninety rupees. They're saying "This ninety rupees is worth... It's worth it to become sterile if you take this ninety rupees."
Prabhupāda: That is paper.
Prabhupāda: So we have to discuss very thoroughly all these subject matter.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another form of cheating is done by man and women for sex life. Just like a woman cheats by putting on all this makeup with the idea that "I will attract someone for my sense pleasure." And the man promises so many things: "I will take care of you. I will do this. I will do that."
Prabhupāda: Well, first of all, if you accept that you have got the cheating propensity, then all other things come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. So many things, everything. Yeah, practically this whole civilization now is a cheating civilization.
Prabhupāda: Whatever name you can give, it is not civilization. That we have to... Not that "How they are cheating." But it is not human civilization; it is animal. Just as animals cheat naturally. Animal fight. So we have to prove this is animal civilization. (Bengali or Hindi) This is not human civilization. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness it is not human civilization. That we have to prove. How it is not? You have to prove that "This is animal civili... This is not human civili..." Real human business is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's para-upakāra. In ignorance they are doing all nonsense. Stop them. Give them knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That I am realizing, that Kṛṣṇa pushed, dragged me through all circumstances, that "These are useless." Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukha... That is required. Just like Jagāi and Mādhāi. They were made to promise, "No more." "Yes sir, no more." "Then I accept you. That's all right." "No." And they made it, kept their promise. They became faithful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually you also demand of us that promise. "Now whatever you have done, never mind, but no more. Follow these four principles." That means if the devotees don't follow, then they will not make advancement.
Prabhupāda: They are breaking their promise. Before accepting them, I make him promise. They promise it. If they break, what can I do?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then the connection, the contract is finished.
Prabhupāda: This should be the principle. "No more this." Then he becomes fit. Āra nahe vākya.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "In accordance with your desire I went to Karachi and spent two days there. I first visited the marble factory of Mr. Azis Pir Mohammed. This man belongs to the Ismaili sect of Islam, the followers of Aga Khan. His factory is very small, and he and his three brothers manage it. Their primary business is cutting alabaster into vases, tiles, plates, cups, etc., and they sell their products mainly to foreign countries. I made two visits to their factory and preached extensively to Azis, his brother, his friends and workers. They all liked Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are intelligent enough to understand and in due time will be able to follow your instructions seriously. However, they need more association and a devotee to constantly engage them. I did not see fit to ask them for the use of their house as a center yet, but I told them that I would be opening a center in Karachi, and they were happy to hear this. They promised to help in whatever way they could as soon as our men appear on the scene."
Ram Jethmalani: Sir, I will take leave of you, and with your blessings, I hope we shall soon be...
Prabhupāda: No, we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness without any sectarian... That is our... Unity on spiritual platform. Try to understand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't know that.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. I had many letters, correspondence with him. He promised that "After retirement I shall join." Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yet when we went to visit him in Madras, I guess he was so...
Prabhupāda: No, that time he was finished.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He could not even recognize. He was failing.
Prabhupāda: No... I used to go to see him even at his house without engagement. And he liked me. He gave me many.... The Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, this Nectar of Devotion. He gave some... I wrote correspondence with him. So he used to say, "Kindly pray to God for my salvation." He was not void. He was fearing God. But he did not accept this Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: What you can do when a man dies? Can you save? So similarly, everyone is being handled by the laws of nature. Nobody can do anything, such puffed up, "We can do this plan." All these political leaders, they are simply wasting time. They cannot do anything. Indira promised, daridra hata(?). But now he is, she is daridra. Poverty-stricken. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). These rascals, they challenging the material laws? Such a rascal? You are scientists, they are challenging. Are they not challenging?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we challenge.
Prabhupāda: What kind of rascals they are, just imagine. Just like "I shall move the mountain with my head." Such rascal. And they are going on as scientist. You have to challenge them like that, that "You are all rascals, so challenging the laws of nature." But from the very beginning I called them rascals.
Prabhupāda: Where there is?
Bhakti-caru: New Delhi. (Bengali) "The instructions have been issued in this regard to Assam authorities. Mr Brahmacari is known to be close to Mr. Sanjay Gandhi." "Morarji Wants Prices. The Prime Minister, Mr. Morarji Desai, today promised in a radio broadcast to check the recent rise in prices on certain goods. 'If necessary by comparing quotas in the current stocks and even by imports, where feasible.' Mr. Desai observed that prices had declined since between February 25 and the end of March but have again increased in the last few weeks in the case of essential goods like oil seeds, cotton, edible oil, til, pulses and food grains. This has raised apprehensions in the minds of (indistinct). Some traders and some stockists have taken advantage of the shortage of certain commodities to increase prices. The form of exploitation would not be tolerated. The Prime Minister said that 'Lifting of the emergency does not mean that traders should try and make extra profits. That will hinder them in the eyes of the law, the people and government. I should like to emphasize that the ordinary law of the land is sufficient to deal with any antisocial conduct.' "
Prabhupāda: They should severe punishment. Then... We shall see.
Prabhupāda: Rogues and thieves, what they know about Deity worship?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neither they have any books.
Prabhupāda: Simply words, long, long.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Words. And promises.
Prabhupāda: Cheating. Cheating. Yes, everyone with common sense can understand that "What philosophy?" Here they see practically character, philosophy, devotion, faith, strict discipline. Any gentleman will appreciate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, the gentlemen are very much impressed, especially, Mr. Mokta(?), people like that. They can see.
Prabhupāda: And Indians are appreciating that "Foreigners, they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not Indians."
Prabhupāda: No, if there is no money, it can go slowly.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But at least the work should be there.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Something should be seen to be going on.
Prabhupāda: Somebody has promised there. So as you get help, you go on. But it must be begun.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So tonight we can discuss it. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the mess. He has paid only one hundred rupees from his pocket, and he's everything, and he has squandered so much.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?
Prabhupāda: The Sanjay Gandhi.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That, I haven't read that yet. Is he going to be put in prison for...?
Prabhupāda: I think so.
Prabhupāda: What?
Indian man (5): And Kṛṣṇa had promised definitely that He would appear whenever there is...
Prabhupāda: Yes, He has appeared, nāma-rūpe avatāra.
Indian man (5): So I think we are passing through a greater hell than what was...
Prabhupāda: No, no, the disease is there; the remedy is there. If you take the remedy, so there is no question of suffering from the disease. But you refuse to take the remedy. Just like this verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Twelfth Canto. This Kali-yuga is the ocean of faults. Why should we lament for that? The remedy is there. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta... (SB 12.3.51). You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You'll become relieved immediately. So why don't you take the remedy? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. Why you are so much disturbed by māyā? Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So it is our choice. We do not do that, and we suffer. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra... Kṛṣṇa is giving personally. He has taken you, and we are not accepting. What can be done? The knowledge is there, the process is there, the authority is there, all the ācāryas, they have accepted, but we are so stubborn, we'll not accept. That is the difficulty. We'll manufacture our own ways. Yato mata tato patha. That is the difficulty. So it is past six. Have some kīrtana. (kīrtana begins) (end)
Prabhupāda: He wants, but I don't think he wants. (laughs) It is known to me.
Mr. Bose(?): No, I'll stay. I promised them.
Prabhupāda: You promised them? (laughter) This time little advanced he has become there, Bose... Shaven-headed. (Hindi) His father was sannyāsī. He's the first sannyāsī of Gauḍīya Maṭha.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: His father was the first sannyāsī of Gauḍīya Maṭha, my Godbrother, Bhakti-pradīpa-tīrtha. He was very kindly. He liked me very much. (Hindi) He has come. Just try to train him. Son must be there. The son of a very big man. The father's quality must be there.
Indian man (2): (Hindi) I... Hardly I endorse. Without Your Grace, a man like me never... I realize your now...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Indian man (2): He's so kind to me.
Prabhupāda: He is ideal sannyāsī. I think he's younger than you.
Prabhupāda: He is ideal sannyāsī. I think he's younger than you.
Indian man (2): Yes. As I am engrossed in this way. It is only through his grace I got extricated. It is impossible. I have got all opportunity. Still, the world has attract me in such a way that several times I promised to him; I could not extricate myself. But this time, I really strict and I last only... That strictness I found because I know it now.
Prabhupāda: He's coming from government service. Ācchā.
Prabhupāda: All these things, this is going on. Chevrolet Company adver... "Bring other 1977 model and see what we have done." (Hindi)
Indian man (1): (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Prabhupāda has decided that the best medicine will be Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and kīrtana, and no need of any doctors who've promised that "I will save your life" or anything like that. We shouldn't bring them. And no outsiders. No outsiders.
Indian man (1): No medicine for the body?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No medicine.
Prabhupāda: Whatever medicine I am taking, that...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's taking a little bit. Yogendra-rasa he's taking. He's tried so many medicines. That is the point. Every doctor has come, and they've each given their medicine, and he's tried them. But they don't work. This medicine always works, Bhāgavatam and kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: Bhavauṣadhi.
Prabhupāda: When I left India, I promised "I'll never come here." I was reluctant to do anything here. You know that? No action do there. But still, I thought that "At least in Māyāpur let me have my..." (laughs) At least Māyāpur, that "There is Vaiṣṇava, so many resident, in Māyāpur, Vṛndāvana." I was... I promised that "I'll never come again, back again here." That was my promise. But Kṛṣṇa wanted. That's all right. I was quite disgusted. Still I am disgusted. America giving permanent resident, these rascals will not give. What is wrong? In your country they also get permanent resident, outsiders?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: In my country there is also a reaction towards Indians. I had to come twice. Once I came the night before, and they would not give me visa at the entry.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: The Indian government.
Prabhupāda: Indian. Indian?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, because so many Indians have not been granted visa in Iran, so they are now reciprocating like that, and I had to go back to Tehran to see the ambassador, who is our friend, getting visa and come back immediately.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Prabhupāda: Call Bhakti-prema Swami. (pause)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Rādhā-vallabha told me that one of the manuscripts... It is already in Los Angeles in our press, English press. He told me that he will send us the final for reading. Rādhā-vallabha, he told me that one he just got a few days, our booklet, so but four... I planned to have four. So we start actually so we can distribute also. Gargamuni Mahārāja promised me that his party will make all engagements in India.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's traveling from college to college. So I'm sending him our brochure and the timetable that... I plan to spend about..., till the next Māyāpur festival to do all the India program, finish all over India programs.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. That means they are rascals. Anyone says that "Our... Where is death repeat?"
Upendra: Then he's rascal.
Prabhupāda: That is rascal, mūḍha. That is the proof they are rascals. They cannot do something. Still, they are promising, "Yes, yes." This is rascal.
Śatadhanya: They do not accept that beyond death there is life.
Prabhupāda: Why not? Why not? If your childhood takes boyhood, why not next?
Śatadhanya: It's logical.
Prabhupāda: You see everything. That means the body is finished. The body is finished. Childhood body is finished. Why do you say "He is my son"? Although this previous body is finished, he has got another body. You are confident. Otherwise how you say "Here is my son"? Body has changed, but your son is there. And your friends say, "Oh, he is your son? Oh, I saw him, little boy." And he could not identify. The father knows that he is the same. That is the difference. The other man, he could not believe that child has become so grown up, young man. Father knows it. "No, he's the same child." That is the difference.
Prabhupāda: They have got all toys and take photograph.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I am also feeling that in the last, about five years ago, scientists, though they were very arrogant about ten years ago, seems a feeling that they may be little bit on the humble side. They are not as arrogant as they used to be, say, ten years ago. We couldn't talk these things in the West, but now, since they promised all these things, and up till now, actually, we have all those things that they promised about ten years ago. Now nothing's happening. So they're making a second thought, that maybe whatever they thought, it's all wrong, so...
Prabhupāda: It is wrong.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's very timely that we present our philosophy and science just in the right time.
Prabhupāda: Now they will think twice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This movement is very dangerous. They'll see. First they though it was simply some people clapping cymbals. Now they're beginning to feel the weight, these scientists especially.
Prabhupāda: Just like Tṛṇāvarta. He took away Kṛṣṇa as a small child. When he was up, He became as heavy as the mountain, and then he could not go up. Then he wanted to smash the child and throw it, but the child wrapped the neck of Tṛṇāvarta in such a way, he could not. The result was that he fell down and died. And the child was saved.
Prabhupāda: But I dared to approach them because I am confident that what I am presenting, it is solid. There is no mistake. It is solid. I never said, "May be, may not be." No. Life cannot come from matter. Never. And the knowledge distribution takes some time. They have distributed ignorance by taking time. We have to distribute knowledge by taking time. False knowledge... Simply promise, future hope... Durāśayā. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum durāśayā bahir-artha-māninaḥ, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānā... (SB 7.5.31). The society remains in darkness, misled by blind men. We want to save the human society from this catastrophe. This is our noble mission. Why they should remain in darkness? Karmīs, jñānīs, yogis.... That should be. Just like some professor in Bangalore, they are trying to expose this Sai Baba. Why? Because they are scientific men, they are protesting, "Why this rascal should keep so many men in darkness? The same rascal. By false propaganda he is appearing mukta, God. What about Sai Baba? We don't see anything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now you are introducing again to the world. There is good hope. Young girls in our society, they should be promised to some boy just in the same way, by their parents.
Prabhupāda: And if required, one man can take care of more than one wife because woman population is greater.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. And some boys want to remain brahmacārī. So naturally there's fewer men for women.
Prabhupāda: And those who are able, you can keep more than one wife. Just see Kṛṣṇa-sixteen thousand wives. God. That is God. Come on, if there is anyone to compete. Sixteen thousand palaces, sixteen thousands wives, each wife, ten sons. That is God.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one is equal to or greater than Him.
Prabhupāda: All queens are happy. Whatever she desires from husband... Satyabhāmā... And Kṛṣṇa went to the heaven and brought the pārijāta flower to satisfy. This is husband. Wife has asked for something: "All right."
Prabhupāda: Sampūrṇam is perfect, when he completes reading my books.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Asampūrṇam means incomplete.
Prabhupāda: Imperfect.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "She also," this person who said that, that all the intellectuals should be familiar with the books, "she also bought the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam standing order and promised to advertise your books among her colleagues."
Prabhupāda: Just see how Kṛṣṇa...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Even more pleasing was my conversation with the chairman of the Comparative Literature program. He bought both standing orders for the department library, and he wants to speak with his colleagues, who are interested in India. He feels both or one of them..."
Prabhupāda: This will increase India's cultural program. And the government is not... You have to show to the government.
Prabhupāda: Where is the proof that you produce life from chemicals? We say it cannot be, and they say, "Yes, it is..."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything in life comes from some other life.
Prabhupāda: We say that "You have never gone to moon." They will say, "Yes, we have gone." Now they have mentioned, "It is hoax." So how we can believe them? What is the value of their statement? And they promise future, "Yes, we are trying."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Post-dated check.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So something's wrong with their instrument. When they fly from Los Angeles and their compass...
Prabhupāda: Nothing is wrong. From their estimate it is all right. But there is superior power.
Prabhupāda: No, give twenty-two crores, I don't mind. Then do it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It will be paid back starting...
Prabhupāda: All right.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Rāmeśvara promised us to pay it back.
Prabhupāda: All right. That's all right.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Then we can get the building complete in October.
Prabhupāda: Whatever money you have got, you squander. I don't mind. I know that the kitchen, so much money is squandered, and that is given. Squander. And increase the period of squander. That I know. So don't bother me now with your money. But finish within that period. That's all.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is my only request. Otherwise, you are squandering money. Do it. Do it. But after all, do it in time. I'm not going to live for long. If possible, I'll see and...
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Can you guarantee life? Then you are controller. Your so-called advanced medicine or advanced knowledge has no meaning. You have to die. Then where is the value of your empty voice?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Prabhupāda? Empty voice.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Empty promises. It says (reading from an article by Dr. Kovoor, president of the Shree Lanka branch of the Rationalist Society), "Even babies are born with a set of genetically determined behavior patterns known as instincts, but with no knowledge. Knowledge has to be put into the brain of a child through the five senses. If a child is born bereft of the five senses, it will grow like a vegetable, without a mind."
Prabhupāda: So why a child is bereft of senses and why the others not? Who controls it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "A child born deaf will neither be a Singhalese nor a Tamil, because it will not be able to speak the languages of either communities. It will be a dumb child."
Prabhupāda: That means another... That means he's born half-dead. But can you give life? You are scientist. You give him.
Haṁsadūta: Oh, yes. The new government there, they pride themselves in being a dharmiṣṭha society, based on the teachings of Buddha. So I submitted an open letter to the same press, that "How is it dharmiṣṭha if the government is in fact supporting the organized slaughterhouses, that the government maintains the liquor industry, the tobacco industry, the tea industry, and they encourage cinema, nightclub, hotel, tourism, which encourages prostitution?" I said, "Where is the dharma? Dharma means four things: no animal slaughter, no intoxication, like that." The editor promised that he would publish it today. So if they publish it, it will also be a very controversial...
Prabhupāda: So, and they are giving us some status to stay there?
Haṁsadūta: No, we have no official status. The way to function there is that you can stay for six months if you bring three dollars a day for them, and then go out, and you can come back the next day. They want to get rid of all religious groups. They want only their Buddhist group. They want to make the Buddhist religion as the state religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa means sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is nirvāṇa. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityaj... Parityajya means giving up, and that is nirvāṇa. It requires expert presentation.
Haṁsadūta: In all the temples they keep a Viṣṇu Deity. All the Buddhist temples they have a Viṣṇu Deity. They have a saying that Viṣṇu promised Lord Buddha to protect the Buddhist religion in Śrī Lanka for five thousand years in this age. They say that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many more years they have to go?
Haṁsadūta: I don't know.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I'm thinking to go today to the Rādhā-Dāmodara temple to see how things are going on. You told me regularly to check there whenever we're here?
Prabhupāda: Not immediately.
Prabhupāda: What foot is area?
Haṁsadūta: It's forty feet wide by maybe three hundred feet long. It's ten minutes from the center of the city. That particular piece of land is worth about two lakhs. There's another man, very rich man. He saw the Bombay project, and he promised to give us a piece of land right on the beach for which he already had zoning permission to build a hotel. It's also a very nice area. But the most important thing is we're trying to get some books published in Tamil and Singhalese languages. And we do a lot of preaching. Is there something special you want me to do there, Prabhupāda? Do you have some...
Prabhupāda: No. There is every chance of making it successful, and the... As Kīrtanānanda has developed New Vrindaban, similarly you can do.
Haṁsadūta: Something along that line?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: That fifty thousand rupees was supposed to be for construction. Bhāgavata Prabhu has collected about 35,000 rupees on his own that he's put into the account there so far. More is also being collected. It was previously promised that whatever he would collect for construction, then that amount would be matched from BBT fund or from your...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Somewhere. So so far he has to collect fifty thousand, 'cause that's already there.
Jayapatākā: He has to match that first before he can get it. (laughs softly) Just yesterday night, the SP of Cuttack District, Orissa, he came here, and he said that he was very impressed by the mandira. He told Bhāgavata... I happened to meet him also. He was very pleased. His wife and family were here. He gave his name and address and said, "When you come back to Orissa, you kindly see me and what I can do... I'm not so big a man, but whatever I can do to help you, I'll do." He's very pious man.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You told him we will have Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma there?
Jayapatākā: Details Bhāgavata was discussing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're installing Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma there, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Orissa.
Prabhupāda: That construction is not so important as printing of books.
Prabhupāda: From monetary point of view, from family life, position. He is the biggest medical practitioner in Allahabad. Everyone knows. Even in the street, Dr. Ghosh they know. So take care of him very carefully.
Lokanātha: Yes, we'll take care of him. I'll promise. Actually his daughter was very much reluctant that he should not go or should not go immediately. But he did not hear her. He just decided to go. But I had to promise his daughter that I would take care of him. She was saying that he should not also become patient along with Śrīla Prabhupāda, as he is old and like that. We'll give him good room and nice accommodation.
Prabhupāda: Attendant, whatever he wants.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda. Right now we're arranging a good room. He'll have his bath, meals. He asked for some fruits, so we're arranging. Don't worry. We'll give him everything nicely as your dear old friend. I think you should begin now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think we should begin to give you this enema now.
Prabhupāda: Begin.
Prabhupāda: Girirāja?
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: News from Bombay? (break)
Girirāja: ...activities are going on. Haridāsa promised that he would, you know, maintain the collections for maintenance. So he's doing that with the help of one or two other boys. And I asked about the attendance at the morning and evening programs, and they wrote back that the attendance at the morning program is very good, maṅgala-ārati and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And it's fair attendance in the evening. And then the construction is going on. It's in the final stages.
Prabhupāda: You give me. He'll go.(?)
Vrindavan De: Because I came, spending so many money...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it won't be hampered. I promise.
Vrindavan De: I came by air-conditioned chair car. Took a hundred rupees.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhavānanda Mahārāja was saying how last night you were saying that there's nothing nicer and more fortunate than to be the pūjārī of a Deity. (break) We'll just get the sum and substance. He's offering his obeisances to Bhavānanda Mahārāja and the other devotees he met here. He says he's very anxious about your health and progress. He requested me to give him a report. He says as regards to starting of the dispensary and also organizing a health teaching center for educating the boys by the latest audio-visual methods, he said that you seemed to be very earnest about it. In fact, he says that you told him to start as soon as possible. But he wishes to explain some of his difficulties. So Sharma and Jagadīśa, the director of education, and... They they've promised to go through the idea. But he didn't find that Dr. Sharma showed much inclination for this idea. The actual thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that we want him to have a dispensary. We're not so much eager for his educational training. Naturally Dr. Sharma was not so enthusiastic.
Prabhupāda: No. Ours is spiritual education, no medical education.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. That's the point.
Prabhupāda: Preliminary health principles, they can le...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's already going on.
Prabhupāda: Because all, everything has failed.
Bhavānanda: This kavirāja has not promised miraculous recovery. He has said it takes time.
Bhakti-caru: Yes. At least fifteen days, he said.
Bhavānanda: We're all feeling encouraged for the first time.
Bhakti-caru: Actually the kavirāja has left it up to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He said that the way you have cured your cough and cold in just a day, in just a few hours' time, the same way you can cure all your disease if you want, just yourself, without any medicine. At the same time, you dreamt this Rāmānuja kavirāja giving you the medicine, and ever since you started taking the medicines there has been some good effect, like you started passing more urine, you started getting a little appetite, little taste, your swelling has gone down, to some extent.
Prabhupāda: Swelling has not... (long silence)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? About two days ago you said that either the kavirāja should stay here or we should go with him. So why should we change that idea?
Prabhupāda: Because in this morning I was fainting. So there was no strength. How long I (sic:) circumbulate?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About a half hour.
Prabhupāda: So do that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He said the only reason... He said, "However, if you really feel that you want to go," he says, "I guarantee you that there will be no risk." That he promises. If you want to go, there will not be risk. But from a medical point of view he says, "I advise you to get stronger before making the trip, because it will be easier."
Prabhupāda: So do that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that's our program. We're going to wait here ten days. After seven days, doctor is coming back. Kavirāja is coming back. He'll also by that time have arranged so that when he comes he can stay even up to a week if necessary.
Prabhupāda: And I'll get some strength.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can sing now. (break) The kavirāja will be coming back to take us there. Better that we follow his advice and let this medicine work a little while, see if you get some strength, and let him come and take us there as he promised he would do. There is no reason why we should jump ahead. As we have placed ourself under a competent kavirāja, better we take his advice as long as we don't find it to be harmful.
Prabhupāda: When we expect?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We expect him to come the day after Diwali.
Prabhupāda: When there is Diwali?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Diwali is the 10th or 11th. I think the Marwari community, they celebrate on the 10th. So we expect him on the 11th or by the latest the 12th, which means one week from today. Do you mind waiting that long?
Prabhupāda: I was thinking if we have to go, why...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, because he's also said that he will give you some medicine for helping you to take the trip easily. No reason to rush, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Our original reason for delaying was to give you time to get a little more strength. That kavirāja felt pretty confident that if we wait this long, you will get some more strength. I think we should wait. Everyone is feeling that way. You're not unhappy here, are you?
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: If there is no appetite, how there will be strength?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, unless there is appetite, there cannot be any genuine strength. Let us see what this kavirāja finally says, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We have to say that he seems to have at least given medicine which has done what he said it would do. That much we have to admit. He did not promise that the medicine would give strength yet. Let him come and let us see. He's a very honest man. He admitted that he cannot guarantee that he can save Śrīla Prabhupāda. He said, "But if anyone can, I promise you that my medicine is effective. I make it myself, and I do it according to the Vedas. So if Kṛṣṇa desires, then medicine will have effect of saving Prabhupāda." So that's honest, at least. He's not claiming to be some magician, neither his medicine causes any pain, I think. Sometimes not so tasty, but not painful.
Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Upendra wanted to clean you a little bit. Is that all right? Then after about a half hour or so we'll come back. He's going to clean you now.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we promise that we'll manage everything to the best of our ability.
Prabhupāda: No, no, you are managing, I know, but you are all important men and unnecessarily you are bound up. You cannot go. So Lokanātha party has got some experience and let me go. In India the climate is now good. If I recover, it is very good. You know. So what is the wrong? If I die, then the body will be brought either in Vṛndāvana or Māyāpur, that's all. And if I live, it will be a great end of a life. You are all experienced.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To Govardhana.
Prabhupāda: Yes, other devotees can go. I cannot go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they'll go on your behalf, but you will go one day. That we promise you.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our greatest pleasure will be to take you on tīrtha-yātrā, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We wanted so much to go with you on that.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we're so much attached to you that you practically drive us to madness sometimes. Tonight we were becoming mad.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I shall not do that. Bābājī Mahārāja? (Bengali) So you will take bath in Rādhā-kuṇḍa on my behalf.
| Page Title: | Promise (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 30 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=184, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 184 |