Prabhupāda: We must understand what is the difference between karma and bhakti. Just like we are using this tape recorder, this microphone. So if you go to your politician you'll find the same paraphernalia. I'm speaking and he's also speaking interview. So apparently we are all the same. But this is bhakti and that is karma. What is the difference between bhakti and karma? Karma means you do something and whatever you do there is result. So you take the result also. Suppose you do some business. So the result is one million dollars profit. So you take it. And the result is one million dollars loss. You take it. This is karma. You act on your own account and you take the result. Is it clear? This is called karma. But our activity is for Kṛṣṇa. So we act. If there is profit it is Kṛṣṇa's. If there is loss it is Kṛṣṇa's. We are unaffected. We are making this preaching work of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If somebody comes he's Kṛṣṇa's, he's not mine. These boys serving me, not for my sense gratification, for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Profit (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"profit"
|"profitable"
|"profitably"
|"profited"
|"profiteering"
|"profiteth"
|"profiting"
|"profitless"
|"profitlessly"
|"profits"
|"profitted"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: (break) I wanted to find out more about attending the services, that is, are there any books written about Kṛṣṇa consciousness here available in Seattle or any other organizations besides the temple?
Prabhupāda: We have many books already published. One, first, is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This is published by Macmillan and Company. You can have any number of these books from our temple. And the next book is Teachings of Lord Caitanya. That is also available from our temple. And the next book, in three parts, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So if somebody... These are the, I mean to say, covering of the books. So if somebody carefully reads these books, Kṛṣṇa consciousness science will be understood very easily by him. Besides these books, we have got our monthly magazine, Back to Godhead. So if the students... It is not very costly. The monthly magazine is only 35 cents per copy and the subscription four dollars yearly. And this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, it is only $2.95. Of course, this Teachings of Lord Caitanya, it is hardbound, it is $5.95. So they will be greatly profited.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: These four things, namely birth, death, old age, and disease will accompany you. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. "If you reach My abode in the spiritual sky, then you'll have no more birth." So this male-female question is everywhere. The only difference is that in spiritual world there is no need of sex life, or there is no impelling sex life, although there is attraction between man and woman. That is... Just like Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. There is attraction, of Rādhā for Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa for Rādhā, but there is no sex life. So male-female, conception of male-female, as we have got here, there is concomitant factor of sex life, but that should not be exported to the spiritual world, that idea. There is also male-female, but there is no sex life attraction. That's all right. Yes?
Pradyumna: Swamiji, I read in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the purport to the (inaudible) ...ślokas... And I saw in another book about sambandha, abhidheya, (inaudible) ... Could you explain that?
Prabhupāda: That is called prayojana. Everyone enters into contact or agreement with another. What is the idea? To achieve some profit. To get some profit. Similarly, we have got... (break—kīrtana) (end)
Brahmānanda: Well, there's some discuss... If we print it on our own press we can print it, we could add eight more pages, which would make it forty pages. But we may continue with Dai Nippon in Japan. So I don't know if we'll increase the pages.
Prabhupāda: So by increasing the pages, what do we immediately get profit? Is there any special advantage we get?
Satsvarūpa: More reading material. More reading material. The customer gets more for his money.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. We should be businessmen. They should get less for their money. (laughter) We are to please Kṛṣṇa, not our customers. So if we are not increasing the price, then why should we increase the pages? Either we print in our own press or Japan, there is extra labor, extra energy. But we are not getting extra money. So there is no need.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...your devatā finished. But your relationship with Kṛṣṇa will never finish-nityo nityānāṁ—because you are nitya, Kṛṣṇa is nitya. That relationship, we have to reestablish that relation. That is the function of the human body. If you are simply busy with this temporary nature, then you are losing time. The temporary relationship will... Just like I came here; now, tomorrow I am going. So, say, for fortnight the relation was there. Now you'll have another relation. Similarly, after this body I do not know what relation, what father, mother, I will get and what relation will be established. What community will be established I do not know. And then I will forget. Now those who are Indian, but suppose in his last birth he was Chinaman. He has forgotten. Now he's fighting for India's cause. If the Chinaman is fighting for China's cause. This is disease. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). We are ready to serve all the dayitas(?), but eternal servitude is Kṛṣṇa. That we have to establish. Then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Then, after leaving this body, he has no more to accept this material body and create another society, another family, another relationship, another atmosphere. So because we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, in Kṛṣṇa society, therefore we are dividing. Suppose one animal is born in India or in America. We don't take him as "my brother. He is also born in the same national." No. He kills it. He gives protection only to the animal with hands and legs, not to the animals who are four-legged. Because he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore his knowledge is imperfect. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are fighting between the different religions because there is no Kṛṣṇa religion, no eternal religion, temporary religion. "I am Christian," "I am Hindu ," "I am Muslim." Therefore, to solve all the problems the Kṛṣṇa consciousness: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). Take to Kṛṣṇa; everything will be solved. So they are reading Bhagavad-gītā but they do not know this. Therefore we have to preach. For thirteen years they are attending this Bhagavad-gītā class or Gītā Bhavan, but nobody knows that this is the Gītā, this is the fact. Why? (Hindi) You tell me. So Bhagavad-gita As It Is we are presenting, as it is. Then it will be nice. If you understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you'll be profited. If you make your irrelevant commentaries, that "Kṛṣṇa means this, and Pāṇḍava means this, and the Kurukṣetra means another thing, another thing," volumes of books and years together lecturing, what is benefit? You do not know the principles. Simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam.
Haṁsadūta: But the articles that will be in the newspaper, they will be exactly like other newspapers? Who will write them?
Prabhupāda: No, articles... Daily newspaper means there must be news. News you can purchase from the news collecting company. They will supply it. At very cheap price they'll supply. And you take advertisement. Yes. You'll cover your expenses by getting advertisements and make sufficient profit. Newspaper starting is not a losing business provided you can organize. Just like ordinary newspaper, they give... In daily news... People want to learn daily news, and they supply huge quantity. And those who are advertiser, they are simply concerned how many copies are issued. If you issue 100,000's of copies, then you can charge for each page thousand dollars. They will pay. Two thousand dollars they will pay.
Haṁsadūta: That means in each city we would we have to have our own local press.
Prabhupāda: No, not necessarily. You can arrange with any newspaper place. You simply supply your matter; they will print. Just like we are getting from Japan, similarly, make your own layout and supply them. Immediately, within two hours, everything is complete.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But Jesus Christ never said that He is God. He said "Son of God." We have no objection to chant the name, holy name of Jesus Christ. We have no objection. But we are preaching that "Chant the holy name of God." If you haven't got any name of God, then you chant our conception of name of God, Kṛṣṇa. We don't say Kṛṣṇa.
- nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis
- tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ
- etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavān mamāpi
- durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ
Lord Caitanya says, in each and every name of God... There are many names of God. But in each and every name of God, the full potency of God is there. So... And there is no hard and fast rule for chanting the holy name of God. Anywhere, at anytime, anyone, in any circumstances, he can chant. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says "My Lord, You are so merciful that in this age..." Why...? Not in this age. Every age. "You are always in full potency in Your name. And I can associate with You simply by chanting Your holy name. But I am so unfortunate, I have no attraction for that." A simple thing, to chant the name. God has become so kind, "You simply chant My name." But I am so unfortunate, I have no attraction for that. Now, these people are being taught... They have got this bead bag. I have also got. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. Now where is the loss? If I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, where is the loss? And where is the want of time? They are walking on the street, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. I am sitting here, and now I'm talking with you. As soon as I finish talking, I shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So where is the difficulty? But ask people to chant the holy name of God, he won't accept. Unfortunate. And such simple thing. He hasn't got to go to church, to temple, or to go to hell or heaven. In whatever condition he is, he can chant holy name of God. But they're so unfortunate, they won't accept this theory. Etādṛśī tava kṛpā. "So God is so merciful, but I am so unfortunate that I cannot chant His holy name." There is no charges, there is no fee, there is no loss. If there is some gain, why not try for it? And the gain is there. That you practically see. Because these boys from Europe, America, and other places, they were... I do not wish to discuss. (laughter) But just see the process now. Not the process one has... Other has to calculate. Then calculate, then serve. Yes. There is so much profit.
Prabhupāda: We are simply presenting the fact that everything belongs to God. God is the supreme friend and God is the maintainer of everyone, everything, and He is the supreme enjoyer. These three things, if we understand, then the whole problem is solved. Now, I say that God is the proprietor. Now you refute. Those who will not accept, that "God is not proprietor, I am proprietor," this requires discussion. How you become proprietor? Bhagavad-gītā says, God says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). I am not manufacturing this. It is stated in the śāstra. God is the supreme enjoyer. He is the proprietor. He should be enjoyer. Just like here, if I am the proprietor of a factory, so the profit should come to me, similarly, if God is the proprietor of everything then we cannot enjoy anything without the sanction of God. We therefore eat prasādam. We know that the fruit, flowers, or grains, or milk, whatever we are offering to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa has given us. You cannot manufacture these things, nice oranges, in factory. You cannot manufacture rice or wheat. Actually, God has given. That is God consciousness. Anything, even those who are eating animals, they cannot manufacture animals in the factory. That is also God's creation. So in the Vedas it is said, eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, "That one supreme living being is supplying food or necessities of life to all living entities." That's a fact. He is the maintainer. He is the giver of food. We are simply handling. That's all. Everything. Even this house or your car, everything. The material ingredients are supplied by God. The intelligence is also given by God.
Dr. Weir: Sometimes it's just honest ignorance.
Prabhupāda: No. Generally mother is honest. If one is unfortunate he has got a mother like that, cheat you. Generally expected, a mother is honest. Mother loves his child, he gives the good information. That is mother's position. But if someone has got a different mother, that's..., the same thing can be applicable to you also. You are lawyer. Everyone depends on you, but if you conduct a case in a different way just to make profit to other party, you can do that. That is my misfortune. I have to depend on you for conducting the case. I have no other means.
Dr. Weir: And the poor lawyer has to depend upon the other person in telling him what is supposed to be the true facts.
Prabhupāda: But my position is, as soon as I appoint my lawyer, I'll have to depend fully on you. I cannot do anything else. Whatever you advise me I have to do that.
Prabhupāda: There is no need.
Guest: But if he goes after demigods...
Prabhupāda: If he wants some material profit. (Hindi conversation) So kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). (Hindi)
Guest: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Tulasī Dāsa is different; therefore we don't take Tulasī Dāsa as authority.
Guest: Not? Then, sir, there is Rāma and there is Kṛṣṇa. You have Hare Rāma Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Rāma is Hari. Kṛṣṇa is considered Hari. So when you...
Prabhupāda: So Rāma... Bhagavān has different forms: rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan (Bs. 5.39). Bhagavān (Hindi).
Guest: That's good. So that explains...
Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu-tattva. That is called Viṣṇu-tattva.
Guest: In that expansion can't we take Durgā and Siva, even for...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is śakti-tattva. We have to take expansion according to the tattva. Substance and categories; in which category. The substance is Viṣṇu, and all other tattvas are categories. So devatās, they are śakti-tattva, śakti category, the same category as you are. The same example. Just like here a government officer, he is also Indian gentleman, you are also Indian gentleman, but he has got his power on account of his high qualities. Similarly you can become also Durgā. You can become Indra, Candra, Sūrya. So qualitatively the ant, you are a learned brāhmaṇa, they are all the same category.
Prabhupāda: According to time... Deśa-kāla-pātra. That kind of forceful, does not act very nicely. One should know the science, but the class of men to whom Jesus Christ said, they are not very much advanced. Under the circumstances, the fearfulness of hell is quite appropriate for them. Actually, one who does not go back to home, back to Godhead, he is put into the hellish condition of life. That is fearfulness, but we are so blunt that we do not take care. It is fearful. Just like Prahlāda Maharaja said that "Nṛsiṁha-deva, I am not afraid of your this fierce feature of Narasiṁha, but I am very much afraid of this materialistic way of life." Saṁsāra. Saṁsāra means this material world. So, it is actually very fearful. The whole atmosphere is fearful. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ (SB 10.14.58). To make adjustment, you have to accept something fearful. Just like this fight, "In future there may be some adjustment so that people may live peacefully. Therefore, we have to fight." This is also, the method is itself fearful. To gain a position where there will be no fear, we have to accept a fearful method. So, in the material world whatever we think, they are not very happy proposition, that's everything is fear. Karma-kāṇḍīya, they have to undergo so many hardship, then they get something profit. People are working so hard to get some profit. In the material world everything is fearful, hard-working. So, in the Bible it is said that hell or...?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śyāmasundara: Eventually your mind will become so occupied, and every field of activity will become so occupied, that you will forget everything else, eventually.
Prabhupāda: Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (Brs. 1.1.11). Zero, all everything zero, make it zero. Śūnyam. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167). Jñāna-karma means there is some aspiration of profit. Karmīs, they are trying to be elevated in the higher planetary system. And jñānīs, they are wanting to become one with the Supreme. So that is also demand. That means there is some desire. It is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167). But one has to become anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam—any desire, make it zero. Then what to do, I shall become dull and dumb? No. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167), you have to work according..., favorably, as Kṛṣṇa desires. That's it. That is wanted, that is bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu, that is wanted. You have to simply abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa or His representative, that's all. That is required.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Yes. (laughter). Yes. So, what is our business with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? (child makes noise) (aside) This child will disturb. Our, this movement is that we are trying to love Kṛṣṇa. If I love Kṛṣṇa, or God, then naturally I will be obedient to the laws of God. It is not? Just like these, my students, when, say four or five years ago, I came here, I had no student. I was loitering in the street. Nobody was caring for me. Now I have got hundreds and thousands of student. They can do whatever I order. So I did not pay them anything, neither I brought any money from India, but they are executing my order simply out of love. Is it not a fact? Because they have developed a love for me... The reason may be whatever it may be, but unless they have developed love for me, how they can execute my order without any personal profit? Therefore this is first thing required, that religion means to abide by the orders of God. Simple thing. And this obedience to the laws of God will be automatically performed if everyone loves his dormant love for God. We have taken this science. We are teaching everyone how to love God. If he thinks that "I have learned to love God through some particular religion," we have no objection. Either he is Christian or Hindu or Muslim or whatever he may be, if by executing the religious principles which he is professing he has developed his love of God, then we have nothing to preach to him. The result is there. But because we don't find the love of God is there, that we are putting a simple formula that "Here is the way." By utilizing or by accepting that way he will very quickly love God.
Prabhupāda: Unexpected fabulous(?) Just like that boy who came to see me yesterday. He's in India, he's getting 900 dollars, that means our ten thousand rupees. Gopal is also not getting. I asked Gopal to continue his service and give 400 dollars per month.
Devotee (1): Hm. Each month. That's great. Very good.
Prabhupāda: So here we shall give you books, cost price only, and you sell books by profit only and spend for building.
Dhanañjaya: Traveling Saṅkīrtana Party is very strong here. There's some very nice boys now.
Revatīnandana: They go out and they simply distribute, and just like I think in San Francisco, Keśava's... He began it here. They just go out with literature and simply to distribute literature, you know, in that way.
Prabhupāda: So Keśava's feeling not well, then he can come here.
Devotee (2): He wanted to. He wanted to bring his party here.
Prabhupāda: He can do that. Let him do that. Write him.
Prabhupāda: They are getting money from other karmīs, so why they should come? They are thinking that "As family man we must make money." Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair , huh? House, land, children, friends, money for increasing their illusion. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). (indistinct) He does not know that he is being finished, and he's thinking that "I am making profit." Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāta. This rascal, he's being defeated. He does not know. He got the chance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness; he sacrificed Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And he is attracted by little pounds, dollars. (pause) But his wife is good, Balai dāsī. She is coming.
Devotee: Yes, she came to maṅgala-ārati.
Prabhupāda: She comes, and she said, "Then we live separately, Advaita." He doesn't like. He's such a rascal. Such a nice, good, beautiful wife, and he's neglecting. (sounds of Prabhupāda taking prasādam) Milk, here they take cold milk, and they (makes sounds of glug-glug-glug drinking). No. Milk should be hot, and it should be taken little.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Still there must some why. Why your forefathers they work and they die? So do you think that is the only philosophy, to work and die? That is being done by the animals also. They work and die.
Guest (1): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. First thing is, why you are working? What is the purpose of working? If the purpose of working is to work hard and then die, finished, then where is the difference between the animals and the men? They are also working. They are dying, too. Cats, dogs, hogs. Then after some time they die without knowing the purpose of life. Then where is the difference between cats, dogs, hogs and (indistinct) human beings. This question does not arise in the modern civilization. And one is thinking, "Yes, it is the same." But they're lying on the street, we're lying on a very nice apartment, bedstead. This is our profit.
Prabhupāda: But they're not living, they're not living. They are doing all kinds of sinful activities, they are drinking, they are having illicit sex, they're gambling, they're killing animals. Very sin... Everyone is engaged in these things. Maybe few percentage people are not engaged. But the throughout the whole world they're implicated in these four kinds of sinful activities. How you can expect that he's going to have next body very nice? No. That is not possible if you believe in karma. According to karma... Just like here in the human society there is law that if you kill a man, you should be also killed. Similarly, in God's laws so the same law is there. Māṁ sa, māṁsa. If I eat an animal then he will have the chance to eat me next life. This is karma. Who is caring for all these things? Who is caring? Nobody's caring. They're slaughtering animals like anything. So this kind of adjustment will not help. They must know scientifically what is the value of life. They must take information from authorized scriptures. Then the human society will be profitable. Otherwise no. Just like there is next life, a boy is educated to have good education so that in the next life—means when he's young man—he will be happy. He's preparing for the next life. The boy is being educated. That means he's preparing for the next youthful life. Youthful life is meant for preparation for the next old age life. Then what we are preparing now for the next body?
Brahmānanda: Mūḍha.
Prabhupāda: Mūḍha, ass. The ass works without any profit. So these are asses. Without coming to the right conclusion, they're working hard, day and night, and spending lots of money. So mūḍhas. (pause) Why the scientists are searching out protons, neutrons? To find out the original cause. So they could not find the original cause. They see the middle work only, how the proton is working, neutron is working, atom is working. But wherefrom this arrangement came? How they are working systematically? They do not know. So what is their science?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is just like studying that shadow.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Brahmānanda: That's another argument they give that when there's some calamity, then they say: "Oh,..." Then they blame the Supreme...
Prabhupāda: God.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And when there's profit, that is His credit. Then he'll say: "Oh, I have worked so hard. Now I have got this profit." And when there is calamity, "Oh, what can I do, it is God's desire."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we experience almost daily that we suffer so much. So we see almost daily that people are dying, they are killed in the car accident...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...burned in houses...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...so many things. We experience almost daily.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the modern scientific research means to increase the demands of the body, the bodily demands.
Prabhupāda: Yes, what they can do? Because they're rascal, foolish, just like children, they'll simply make their body dirty. That's all. He does not know anything. If you bring a small children, what they will do? They'll take this... You see. he does not know anything. He's a rascal. Similarly you scientists, you are all rascals. You do not know anything. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, making research. What research you can do? You do not know anything. What research you can do? And Vedic injunction is: yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you know the Absolute Truth, then all other things become known. But you do not know what is Absolute Truth. Therefore you are in ignorance. If you know one thing, then you... Just like you are talking. We are not official scientists or philosopher or anything. But why you are challenging, you are talking so boldly? Because we know one thing, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we can say so boldly and challenge anyone. I'm not a D.A.C. like you. How I can challenge you? I'm challenging you. How? Because I know Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is the statement of Veda. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you know Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth, then all other things will be known automatically. It is such a thing. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, challenging all kinds of men in the society, so many scientists are coming, so many psychologists coming. So how we are confident to talk with him? Because we have learned little about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Is it not? You are a qualified scientist. Why I challenge you? Not that because you are my disciple, you are accepting all my challenges. You have got your reasons. You are not a fool. So how it is possible? Practically, how it is possible? Because we are trying to know little about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Therefore this Vedic injunction, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. These statements are there. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then you will not hanker after any more profit. Bas. All profit is there. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābham. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then all other kinds of profit, you'll not hanker after. And what kind of profit this is? Yasmin sthito na duḥkhena guruṇāpi vicālyate (Bg. 6.20-23). If one is situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in the greatest calamity of this world, he'll not be disturbed. This is the greatest profit. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. A big giant, Hiraṇyakaśipu, is putting him always in difficulty, but he's confident: "Yes, there is Kṛṣṇa." A five years old boy. He's not at all disturbed. Father is giving poison.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is what we find in science.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is, it is a scientific or clever method of drawing money from others. That's all. In other words, simple words, cheating. That's all. They do not know anything, and they're teaching, scientific method. Now suppose here is big, big waves. You scientists, you say some jugglery of words, proton, atoms, this, that, and hydrogen, phoxygen, oxygen. But what benefit people will get? Simply they'll hear this jugglery of words. That's all. What else you can say? Now suppose it is hydrogen, oxygen, protons, neutrons, all these things. So your position, my position, where is the change? Still we do not get any profit by this jugglery of words.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Milk will disappear. Harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (pause)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda, buffalo, buffalo milk is as good as cow's milk?
Prabhupāda: No. It contains more fat. Milk means cow's milk. If you want to derive milk profit, then it is cow's milk. Otherwise every animal has got milk. And next to cow's milk is goat's milk. Goat. Buffalo milk is not so nice.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's difficult to digest.
Prabhupāda: No, they therefore mix with water.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Manipur we use mostly buffalo milk because cow's milk is not very plenty. Very expensive also.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. In India, cows are disappearing by slaughterhouse. (pause) (break) The scientists cannot make drinking water from sea water?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They can make.
Haṁsadūta: Should I put on the light, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sit down. (pause) He gets such thing, when he gets it, he'll consider that he doesn't want anything more. That is the greatest profit. And the result is that when one gets that thing, even he is in the greatest difficulty of life, he's not disturbed.
- yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ
- manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ
- yasmin sthito na duḥkhena
- guruṇāpi vicālyate
- (Bg. 6.20-23)
Hm. Take that. Bhagavad-gītā. Yaṁ labdhvā, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. I think it is in the Sixth Chapter.
Pradyumna: Yaṁ nam?
Prabhupāda: Labdhvā.
Pradyumna: Oh, cāparaṁ lābham?
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Buddhist Monk (1): And I told them directly and indirectly, "Your systems, which have transplanted the well, type systems, especially of India, has created a catastrophe. We have made mistakes in the past. But we profited by them, and we want a successful educational system that taught the individual how to give himself peace within himself, mentally and physically. Within his family, within his relations society, nation and the world. And today that system has been overtaken by this materialistic system. One calls himself materialist directly. Another, camouflage, just under the name of religion. That's the only difference I know of in these two systems in the West. That's the only difference." And I told them. I said, "We want peace. Śānti, śānti, śānti. And we know the danger of playing with the fireball of materialism, which is throwing its tentacles into every part of society: divorces, nervous cases, mental cases, cancers, suicides, family life is breaking. And it reminds me of Gibbon's writing about the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. And all those symptoms are there in this so-called progressive, civilized culture." I used the word "so-called." And this mind...
Prabhupāda: But what remedy you have suggested?
Buddhist Monk (1): Reduction of greed, and substitution of liberality. There is no other remedy.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Prabhupāda: Improve... Major portion is stated like that. But there is always light and darkness. Always. So the light party will be also there. This is the only, that take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. In the Kali-yuga, it is an ocean of faults. Doṣa-nidhi. Nidhi means ocean, and doṣa means faults. But there is one opportunity. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. Very great profit. What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. Simply by chanting Kṛṣṇa's name and becoming Kṛṣṇa con..., one shall be freed from all these calamities and he'll go back to home, back to Godhead. Simply by this. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. This very word is used. Mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. So this is the only shelter. If people take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll be saved from all the calamities of this age. Otherwise, there is no other... Now they are going to the forest, the hippies. Eh? Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. Giri-kānanam means to the forests, to the hills. They'll go. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇām. Dāra means wife, and draviṇā means money. So they'll be separated from wife and money, and they'll go to the forest and hills, being disappointed. This is happening already. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam.
Popworth: The one on Buddhist economics.
Schumacher: No, it was the other one. This is "The Economics of Permanence."
Popworth: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Hm. "Cars, Profits and Pollution." I was just reading this article. "Cars, Profits and Pollution." So this one side, we make profit, another side, we make pollution. This is the material, result of material activities. Whatever you do. Anything you do material, it is same. In one side, you see, "Oh, there is so much profit," and another side, you'll see so much pollution. Therefore the remedy is to act for spiritual realization. Then you will avoid pollution. The remedy is. If you... That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Third Chapter, how we can work for spiritual realization and avoid the pollution of material activities. This is the sum and substance of Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, we do not avoid the material activities, but we become free from the material pollution. This is the secret of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Revatīnandana: He said, how do you envisage that one should act. How should one act? He's asking.
Prabhupāda: That you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like Arjuna. He was a kṣatriya, a warrior, but he acted on account of Kṛṣṇa. We are acting, but we are acting at the present moment for our sense gratification. Everyone is thinking that "If I do like this, it will give me great satisfaction." That is my sense gratification. I am acting for my satisfaction, not for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. So when we act for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, that is the perfection. Then we save the material pollution. This is the secret. Arjuna is a good example. Before fighting, he was thinking in terms of his own satisfaction. But when he understood Bhagavad-gītā and he agreed to act for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, then he became perfect. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that we do not say immediately to stop. Just like "Cars, Profits and Pollution," the very nice description of these three things. But there is no suggestion of remedy. That he does not know. If he suggested remedy, "Now stop all cars driving," or "Stop this nonsense business," that is impossible. That is craziness. So we do not say that you stop it. But we say, purify it. Just like there is pollution. So pollution is there. You cannot stop manufacturing cars or driving cars. That is not possible. But you can purify the pollution. That is possible.
Haṁsadūta: Well we have, whenever they come, whenever we meet them.
Prabhupāda: No, whenever you are meeting, "this rascal is going on as God. This is mistaken. What profit...?" You have to speak there. What proof is there? So consult with Bhagavān dāsa and begin this propaganda. I have no time... Therefore, I say: "I do not know this man. That's all right." To avoid. But in a meeting, and you are going saṅkīrtana. People are coming, talking with you. So you make some propaganda, counter-propaganda. Although, practically, he'll be finished, there is no doubt. Two, three years. The Maharishi Mahesh yogi, also became very... Nobody cares for him now. (end)
Prabhupāda: That is his misfortune. But in spite of his misfortune, because he was practiced to chant the name of Rāma, he was pious. Although he was ignorant. He was absorbed in thought of politics. He should have, if he would have understood that Rāma is a fact, Kṛṣṇa is a fact... That he did not understand. Then he would have preached the glories of Rāma, glories of Kṛṣṇa. He took the chanting of Rāma for his political purposes. He utilized for political purpose. Just like... That is nāma-aparādha. Samaḥ śubha-kriyā mati pramāṇaḥ (?). He was trying to get some material profit by chanting the holy name of Rāma. That he got, material profit. He was the most famous politician, all over the world.
Guest (1): But he did not accept any post, you know that? At the same time...,
Prabhupāda: But he also accepted "Mahatma" although what...
Guest (1): But not political post.
Prabhupāda: That is another trick, it may be. Or he did not like. It may be. Because he was so great, what is the presidency? Presidency elected post for five years. But he was recognized all over the world as a great leader. That is greater than any president's post or prime minister's post. So that is not much. But the thing is that if he was actually aware of the importance of Rāma, that he did not. He took it, "Rāma" as some means for his political purpose. But still it effected. At the time of death he said, "Rāma."
Prabhupāda: Then, again they come down to this material world and he takes birth either in a very exalted brāhmaṇa family, śucīnām, or very rich, vaiśya family. After enjoying there, again he's given chance to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. And if he misses, then again he goes down. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says these are all false elevation. If I have to come again back, again I have to accept another lower grade life, then what is the profit? Kṛṣṇa gives His straight understanding, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti: (BG 4.9) You become Kṛṣṇa conscious. After the giving up this body, no more material body either in the heavenly planet or in the lower hellish planet. "You come direct to Me." That is perfection. You should not be attracted by somebody has gone to heavenly planet for ten thousands of years living. We should not be attracted by these things. Therefore Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī says, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pur ākāśa-puṣpāyate. Tridaśa-pur means the heavenly planets. Ākāśa, it is just like will of the wisp. Something, just like, what do you say Hindi? There are many proverbs, which has no existence. Just like in Bengali we say ghoḍā-ḍima. Ghoḍa-ḍima. Ḍima means egg. The horse never lays down egg. But the word is running on: "the egg of horse." So it has no existence but the word is there. Similarly, what do you say in Hindi? Something which has no existence but it is current. I think there is.
Prabhupāda: Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura.
narottama-dāsa koy, nā ṭheliho rāṅgā pāy,
- tomā bine ke āche āmāra
Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's singing, hari hari bifale janama goṅāinu: "My dear Lord, I have simply wasted my time. Bifale, without any profit. Because I got this human form of life, but I missed the opportunity for worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa." Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā." And by doing this, I have taken poison knowingly." Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Then golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana." This nāma-saṅkīrtana is not any material thing. It is the ecstatic love of Kṛṣṇa in the Goloka Vṛndāvana."
Reporter (1): Can you tell me who is Lord Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa is God, the Supreme Personality of God.
Reporter (1): And what will it profit us if we get to know about Him?
Prabhupāda: The profit means you'll be saved from the material existence. Material existence means repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease.
Reporter (1): How does He speak?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Reporter (1): How does He speak to you or to us?
Prabhupāda: He was present five thousand years ago. He came on this planet and gave instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. So that is recorded.
Guest (2): That giving should be without any intention of taking.
Prabhupāda: No, no profit making, no business that "I give you something. I must have something from you." No, no. Love means without any desire, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), without any motive. That is pure love. If I give you something without any motive, that is pure love.
Guest (3) (Indian man): (Hindi) ...there are three factors: one, duty towards God, duty towards the family, duty towards the business, duty towards the country, duty towards the society. Then how is he to balance himself in these duties?
Prabhupāda: Duty, there are so many duties.
Prabhupāda: ...technology. If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, His activities, His appearance, His disappearance, this technology, then you also become like Kṛṣṇa. No more birth, no more death, no more disease. This is science. In this life if you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, then you become immune from birth, death, old age and disease. So if you don't like... Not you, mean the people. They say, "No, we don't like Kṛṣṇa consciousness..." But you are so much advanced in science and technology. Where is your technology? That was my question in the Massachusetts Technological... "Where is your technology to stop this death?" Nobody wants to die. Is it not a fact? So where is that technology that human society has given, has been awarded with this profit by such and such great scientist that people will no more die, no more disease, no more birth, no more old age? Nobody wants to become old. Nobody wants to get an old body like me. Rheumatic troubles. Nobody wants. But I am forced to accept. Where is that technology? I was also young man like you. I would like to go back again to that young life, but there is no possibility. So where is that technology? Real problems of life are not solved. Because there is no knowledge. Lack of knowledge.
Pradyumna: I just have the black one.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). During Mahārāja Parīkṣit's time, one black man was attempting to kill a cow. Immediately the king wanted to kill him, immediately: "Oh, who are you?" It is the duty of the vaiśyas. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma-svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). It is the duty of the vaiśyas to protect the cows, to increase agricultural activities and trade. But they are now interested in producing electronic parts. No go-rakṣya, no vāṇijyam, no food production. Cheap profit, and for eating, let there be slaughterhouse and eat meat. And to digest meat, you drink wine. This is being taught. So you create the situation and when you suffer, then why should we lament? We have created this situation, godless civilization, do not follow the direction of the śāstras. When we follow, what is that kāmam?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) God has given them everything actually, to live peacefully and try to understand God, but that they will not do. They will do something to try to forget God. That is their aim.
Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, is it true that if a person is very sinful, he reduces some years from his life? If a person is very, very sinful, extremely sinful, then he reduces some...
Prabhupāda: Reduce or increase, what is the profit?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We see the practical example. If you are alcoholic...
Prabhupāda: Even if you reduce or increase, suppose you are to live for hundred years, if you make it hundred and ten, so what is your profit? And if you are to live for hundred years, reduce time ten years, so what is the profit? You cannot live here, that is a fact, reduce or increase. This is all nonsense. What is increase? The trees, they have more longer period, increased the period, of life. Is, that kind of living is very profitable? What for increasing? To suffering? Your life is already suffering. Why you are covering this body? You cannot stand here, open body. That is suffering. You are trying to save yourself from the suffering. This is life, struggle for existence. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). Simply struggle. So if you increase your life for struggling again, then what is the profit? This is... The rascals, they do not understand. Even if you increase, what profit you will get? Your life is all suffering. So the foolish persons, they cannot understand. The real problem is how to stop your suffering, reduce or increase, it doesn't matter. But that you cannot do. You'll have to die. This is your suffering. Nobody wants to die. You have to become old man. Suppose an old man, suffering from so many diseases, and he increases his life. What is the profit there?
Yaśomatīnandana: That is what they do by heart transplant.
Prabhupāda: This is all nonsense. Stop death; then it is an achievement. That's all. Stop disease, that is achievement. But that you cannot do. What is the profit reducing, and increasing or decreasing?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. I am saying therefore, disease, not "This disease" or "That disease." Disease mean any kind of disease. That is credit. That is credit. If you guarantee that "Here is a chemical composition; when a man takes it, no more disease," that is credit. But you cannot do that. Then where is your credit? You simply struggle. The struggle we increase. That's all. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). We shall come down? The water is coming or...?
Karandhara: Looks like the water is coming up, Prabhupāda.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The waves are very big.
Prabhupāda: Now, such a huge quantity of coloring, wherefrom coming, red color? And it will disappear after few minutes. Have you got any control over it, scientist?
Prabhupāda: Yes, because the new frontier of knowledge for the rascals not for the intelligent men. They're... The same example. If somebody imitates barking of the dog, if he says, "This is new frontier of knowledge," so a foolish man can believe that "How you have learned to bark like dog! Oh, great advancement." But an intelligent man says "What is the use of this barking, imitation barking? There is already dogs who are barking." Just like there is a... It is a fact, not story. One man, he went out of his village, and after ten years, he came back, advertised himself that "I have become successful in yoga practice." So naturally villagers surrounded him. "Oh, you have...? What yoga practice you have learned?" "I can walk on the water." "Oh?" Actually, even at the present moment, if somebody comes and says, "I can walk...," many people will come, thousands of men. So when everything, arrangement was that he'll cross the river, walking on the water, one old man came. He said, "Sir, it is very wonderful, but it is two paise worth. Two paise worth." "Why?" "Now, you will walk and go the other side; I'll take a boat, pay him two paise. I'll do the same thing. So what is your credit?" So those who are actually intelligent men, they will take like that, that "What actual profit you have made? You have spent millions and millions of dollars, and you say, 'Now, we have seen in the moon there is a crack.' " So this bluffing to the public must be stopped. They're squandering money, public money, and we Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we cannot do our activities for want of money. They have become so fools. How they are squandering money simply by bluffing another set of rascals that they are advancing in scientific knowledge. They are rascals, and they're cheating other rascals that they're advancing. And result is they're squandering public money. What do you think, Mr. Scientist?
Prabhupāda: Ah. Because I said about authority... So this is fact. Now, in Russia the authority was the Czar. Now, after this Bolshevik revolution, Lenin became authority. That was his point. I said that you have to accept one authority. That you cannot change. That he said, that "Yes, that I accept, but authority has to be changed by revolution." And yes, we accept that. But the ult... When you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness authority, then there is no more necessity of change." Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Everyone is trying to achieve the greatest profit. So when he gets Kṛṣṇa, he is satisfied. No more profit. Final profit. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. So there is no more necessity of revolution because that is the ultimate peaceful condition. So if you do not come to the ultimate condition of peace, then this revolutionary method will go on, continue. There will be no cessation of revolution, one after, one... That is māyā, illusion. I am thinking by going a few steps, mirage, I will get the water. But there is no water at all. It is simply illusion.
Prabhupāda: No, that free will is not to be given. It is already there. Rather, Kṛṣṇa says He has given free will, but His personal advice is: "I am now talking to you the most confidential words." Sarva-guhyatamam. "You stop your so-called free will. Just surrender to Me." This is the most confidential. "If you surrender to Me, that is good for you. But if you go on keeping your free will you'll not be happy." There is also free will. When you come to the Kṛṣṇa platform you serve Kṛṣṇa with free will, not that you become a stone. There is free will. Just like our devotees they are dressing Kṛṣṇa nicely, is there no free will? They are cooking for Kṛṣṇa. Is there no free will? The free will is there. The Māyāvādī philosopher says, the Buddha philosopher says, that "Stop this free will, and then you become happy." But our proposition is not to stop free will but purify free will. Purify. Not stop these eyes. Just if it is suffering from cataract, cure that cataract. Keep the eyes. And their proposition, "Get out these eyes and throw it. Then there will be no more seeing what is right and wrong." That is their proposition. Nirviśeṣa-vādī. Nirviśeṣa means no speciality, no varieties. That is nirviśeṣa. And śūnya, zero. When it is zero, then there is no question of right and wrong. So our philosophy is not that. There is no zero, and there is no varieties. We don't say. There is, but it's purified varieties. Tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Nirmalam means purified. So our process is to purify everything. We don't want to stop. That is not our proposition. They cannot find out any solution. Therefore they want to make stop: "Stop this business." Suppose a business is not going very nicely. It is going at loss. Somebody says, "Close it." But one experienced man comes: "Why should you close? All right, I shall do it properly. You'll get profit." So who is better? One, by disappointment, he says, "Close this business. There is no profit." And another man says, "No, don't close it. We shall make you profit. We shall show you profit. Just manage it properly." This is our proposition. We don't say that "Stop all these material activities." No. Just do it properly so that you get real profit and real benefit. That is our program. We don't want to make it zero, no. Why shall I make it zero? (break) ...can be taken just like there is business, but the workers, the assistants, they have no idea who is the proprietor. So everyone is doing something, taking pocket, something this, take pocket, his pocket, so how the business will go on nicely? That is being done. Everyone, these rascals, they have no idea who is the proprietor of this world. So they are doing in their nonsensical way. Therefore there is confusion. The business is not profitable. But if they accept, "No, the real proprietor is such and such gentleman, so he wants to do us like this," then the business will be profitable. Everyone is thinking that he is proprietor, so how this business will profit? This is the position. Everyone is thinking that he is the proprietor. He forgets that he is worker. He is not proprietor. That is the mistake. Therefore the business is mismanaged, and there is no profit, simply chaos. That is the position.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that proprietor stage is relative.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is relative. Relative means you are servant. You must satisfy by your service to the proprietor and get your nice salary and be happy. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Whatever He gives, you accept and be happy. That is Īśopaniṣad. You don't try to encroach upon others. You receive from the proprietor your emolution (emolument?) or your reward and be happy. That is Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything is God's property. You take your share. You have got right. Just like a father and the son. There are ten sons. Everyone has got the right to share the property of the father, but as the father gives, not that I take away the whole property and others, brothers, may starve. That is not allowed. That is criminal. Here in the material world everyone has come to get the best profit, without considering profit for others. Others may go to hell. "Others, let them go to the slaughterhouse. I must satisfy my tongue." That is material world. "No, why you are slaughtering other living entities?" "I don't care. I want to eat. That's all." So you have to pay for that. You cannot put others into difficulty because God is equally merciful to everyone. But you don't care for God. Therefore you do whimsically whatever you like. So you are putting yourself in difficulty. This is the position. (break) ...mahad-guṇāḥ. Therefore without God consciousness, nobody is qualified.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, he does not accept Kṛṣṇa. That is rejected. Now we are talking about him. If he is light, why does he use electric light? If he says, "The inner light," then you are relative. You see only inner side, not outside. Therefore you are relative. Therefore you are not God. God is absolute. Antar-bahiḥ. One has to see light inside and outside. That is real light. If the light is checked by some material condition, that is not absolute light. That is electric light. As soon as you come to the condition, then it is relative. It is not absolute. (break) A man can be changed from barking to chanting, but dog cannot be. (break) ...is so powerful that as soon as there is sunrise, immediately darkness gone. Similarly, if the absolute light is there, if there is need of electricity, what kind of light it is? Even the relative light is so powerful that immediately darkness gone. So you are not as powerful as the relative light. So what kind of light you are? This should be the argument. You are cheating. You are not light. You are darkness. Our, that slogan is "Where there is God, there is no darkness." "Kṛṣṇa is like the sun, and nescience is like darkness. Where there is Kṛṣṇa, there is no darkness." Don't waste time with these rascals. Go on with your own business. You sold Bhagavad-gītā. (laughs) That is our profit. That's all.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you answer them, "Yes, you become a dog, but you become a dog of a good master." What is the use of becoming dog of another dog? Then what profit will be there? Is it not? We are... Actually every one of us is dog. And we are trying to satisfy so many masters. The masters are our senses. We are already dog, everyone, because everyone is servant of the senses, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya. So everyone is dog. Now he has to remain a dog, but by becoming dog of these senses, he is not happy. Find out a good master, and become a dog. You become happy. This is our philosophy. And the best master is Kṛṣṇa. We are also trying to be dog, but not of another dog, but real master. That is our philosophy. What is the use of becoming a dog of another dog? That is not proper. Here the material world is that "I am dog, I have got a master, and the master has got another master. He has got another master, he has got another master." Nobody can say that "I am Absolute."
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Then Brahmānanda give me assurance. "I can take charge." Therefore I signed. But factually, he was as good as Madhudviṣa. (laughs) He made a contract with a, that camp, forty thousand rupees. I settled up for ten thousand rupees. So our work is going on in India and money's spent. Fifty percent is spoiled by this American brain. What can be done? There is no... They'll loot. They cheat. Like anything. Just like this camp. It was, it was Brahmānanda and Madhudviṣa combined together made a contract-forty thousand rupees. Then I said that "Then I am not going to pay you. You go." In Kumbha Melā also, the contract was ten thousand. So five thousand already paid. So I said, "I have no money. You have to become satisfied with the ten thousand." So they began some trouble, but after all, accepted. Because they make five hundred percent profit.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Paradise. Paradise?
Bali Mardana: Yes, I think that is it. The woman was telling us.
Prabhupāda: Yes. She was very friendly. Mrs. Max Linder. Her husband is the proprietor, and she would call her husband, "Max, why don't you take these books," like this. She was friendly. And that Mr. Max was first-class businessman. He will extract as much profit as... (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. It was sold. Practically, in the beginning, they were selling. I was getting some money. There was no other income. Another bookseller, Oriental.
Bali Mardana: Yes, Oriental.
Nitāi: Orientalia.
Prabhupāda: Orientalia, yes. That lady was secretary of Dr. Mishra. (japa) (To child?) Oh, you cannot walk? That's not good. You must walk. She cannot... (japa) She's walking? (japa)
Prabhupāda: No, copyright is mine.
Dr. Kapoor: Oh.
Guest (5): Can you get, get it, published in India.
Prabhupāda: In India, yes. No, by publisher, especially publisher like MacMillan you save so much time and investment also. We are not for profit. We want to see the publication in the market, so in that sense we save so much trouble, but they always look after their business profit.
Dr. Kapoor: Naturally.
Prabhupāda: In the beginning also I requested them to publish the whole, but they said, "No, it will be very big, it will be costly. You reduce it to 400 pages." So that 1100 pages were reduced to 400 pages. Now when people are demanding this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, people are coming. When our saṅkīrtana party goes in the street many gentlemen comes and demands "Have you got Bhaktivedanta's Bhagavad-gītā As It Is?"
Devotee: Farmer sees that a job of three hundred rupees and runs away to city. He will not work in the field. Then there will be no food.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they require. They require. The cow is being killed, and that's all. That is sufficient food for them." And let the farmers work for me, for bolts and nuts and motor tire. We make huge profit." You see. You are making profit, but other...
Devotee: What is the use of that profit, Prabhupāda Mahārāja, when don't get even for eating, no clothing, no eating? Only profit... What profit will be beneficial?
Prabhupāda: No, but they don't care for others. But they're having wine and women with their black market money. That's all. They're satisfied. They do not know... (end)
Prabhupāda: ...yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Anything which is favorable to our this being Kṛṣṇa conscious, we accept.
Dr. Patel: No, we don't want because of factory.
Prabhupāda: They are, they are doing that business not for any individual profit.
Dr. Patel: No, but for the profit of the temple you can have it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Dr. Patel: No individual profit.
Prabhupāda: That we can do.
Dr. Patel: We can do it here. I know so many people who, who can... (break)
Prabhupāda: Just like we are printing these books. And as soon as we take the bunch of books to any gentleman, he pays immediately, "Eleven hundred. Take it." Better business. You see. First of all I began business of this, simply by giving the Kṛṣṇa Book.
Yaśomatīnandana: ...formed by anybody.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yaśomatīnandana: Karma-yoga.
Prabhupāda: Unless one is inclined to take to devotion, it is not possible to take to karma-yoga. Who can sacrifice the profit?
Yaśomatīnandana: Does karma-yoga mean to follow exactly the śāstras?
Prabhupāda: Karma-yoga means yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam.
Yaśomatīnandana: Doing only for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is karma-yoga.
Devotee: Which means?
Prabhupāda: "Whatever you do, the result give Me."
Devotee: To Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...prasannātmā. Brahma-bhūta. That is called brahma-bhūta stage. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. This happiness and distress is the cause of śocati and kāṅkṣati. Kāṅkṣati means desiring to have something. This is distress. And lamenting for something, that is also distress. Actually, this is the material position. When we haven't got the things, we desire it. That is also distress. And when it is lost, that is also distress. But by illusion, they take it. When they get it, they think that it is happiness. This is māyā. Actually, to get the things, he has to undergo so much hard... A man is given credit... Suppose he was a poor man. He has now become multi-millionaire. He is given credit. But he does not see that he has simply passed through distress. But he... By illusion, he's thinking that he's happy. He's also thinking, and others also thinking, that "He has become happy." But actually it is distress. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chants japa) (break) ...people become religious not for attaining the transcendental stage, but for material benefit, dharma, the artha. Artha means material opulence, that. They... These four things: dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). And why they want artha? To satisfy their senses. Dharma artha kāma... And when they're again baffled, they want mukti, to become one with the Supreme. These are the four different tastes of the material. All, all of them are baffling and illusory. The so-called religiosity with a view to get some material profit... That comes everywhere. Just (as) in Christianity, the religion means, "O God, give us our daily bread." Material profit, similarly, in anywhere, they go for material benefit. Therefore this kind of religion, it is also good, but it not first-class. The first-class religion is sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6), when one is awakened to the devotional service of the Lord, ahaitukī apratihatā, without any cause, and without being impeded. So ahaitukī apratihatā... That is, that stage is required. Not that "My sense gratification is not done here. Oh, let us give up this company." That is sense gratification. (laughs)
Satsvarūpa: The other important point is that we love God not for getting some reward. You say that the other important thing is that this person claims to be pious, but he approaches God for material reward.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is business. That is not love. I go to somebody and flatter him to get something. Just like a shopkeeper does also like that. He flatters the customers in so many ways to sell goods so that he can make some profit. So there is no question of love.
Akṣayānanda: But that "I am following Jesus Christ and I am a vegetarian," so that's all right, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: I am following Jesus Christ?
Akṣayānanda: That "I am a vegetarian. I do not eat meat. I don't kill. I do not kill."
Prabhupāda: Oh, therefore I am a better Christian, better than you. Love... Therefore the Bhāgavata is perfect. Bhāgavata says that... Bhagavad-gītā says... Kṛṣṇa says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So we are obeying Kṛṣṇa. We offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ. And we eat the remains of the foodstuff. Therefore we love. That is the proof. But you are not loving Jesus Christ because you are disobeying the order.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted.
Gurudāsa: Because of Kali-yuga. And also everyone in Vṛndāvana that I mention that we are planning to have gośala, everyone likes the idea. That will be very popular here. Gośala, everyone, their eyes become bright.
Prabhupāda: Make at least gośala, keep cows. That is also profitable.
Gurudāsa: Yes, maybe we should do that.
Prabhupāda: One or two men may simply take care of the cows.
Gurudāsa: Maybe we should do that.
Prabhupāda: And grow grass, let them pasture.
Gurudāsa: Yes, and plant trees.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They will not take any payment. Just like under me so many Europeans and Americans work daily. I don't pay them a farthing. When they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you'll haven't got to pay anything. But you cannot take also anything. You cannot, you do not expect that "I don't have to pay anything, so it is very good profit." No, sir, you cannot take also anything. If I would have taken all the sales produced of the book selling, then you would not work. Because although it is my books, I do not take any profit or any sales proceeds, therefore you work. Similarly, these rascals, the proprietor of the factories, if they do not take anything, they will also agree not to take anything. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Then the solution is there.
Yogeśvara: So in other words the workers are unsatisfied because they see that the managers are exploiting them, but if they see the managers are giving the money to Kṛṣṇa, they will feel satisfied.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and they will also give. Kṛṣṇa becomes the proprietor. Everyone is satisfied.
Bhagavān: They think it's so horrible to eat another person, but...
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are suffering. Therefore you'll find, in the recent history, every twenty-five years there is a big war, slaughter, mass slaughtering of the people. How nature will tolerate? Now India has learned, imitated the western countries. Now there is war between India and Pakistan. Otherwise there was no such thing. During two wars between the Pakistan and Hindustan, unnecessarily, without any profit, millions of people were killed.
Karandhara: Just recently India exploded an atomic bomb, and now Pakistan is hurrying to get an atomic bomb also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: There is no healing in the material world. There is disease always. There is no question of healing. Their healing is temporary. I am suffering from some disease. You give me some medicine. Does it mean that there will be no more disease? You heal that temporary disease. Again another disease. So where is the healing? So this is to be thought, that... Healing, that is the problem. There is no healing. There is always disease, this disease or that disease. If you prefer this disease heal, you are cured, and there will be no more disease, then you are profited. Another disease. You heal this, another disease. You heal this, another disease.
Robert Gouiran: So you think we can't help people?
Prabhupāda: Eh? You cannot! Can you help people to stop death? Or to stop disease? Or to stop old age? I am becoming old, can you stop?
Robert Gouiran: I think so.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. If you think that you can stop my old age growing, then that is foolishness. It is not possible.
Bhagavān: When you had your talk several years ago with the professor in Russia, he made the point, when you were discussing about the regulative principles, that if you follow these principles, then your life becomes very simple, and if you don't follow these principles, life becomes very complicated. He appreciated that one point.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any sane man will appreciate. Our... Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Without anartha-nivṛtti... Anartha-nivṛtti means stopping all unwanted things. Anartha. Anartha means which does not give us any profit and unnecessarily we are accustomed. Suppose we do not take any intoxicant. So what is our inconvenience? But people are spending millions and millions of dollars only for smoking. Therefore it is useless, anartha. But they cannot give it up. And condition is that without anartha-nivṛtti, there cannot be attachment for God.
Prabhupāda: Why vain? Don't you find difference between you and me? Why it is vain? Don't you find what is the difference between you and me? So I... Do you think that I am a foolish man, that I am chanting, "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa" without any profit? So you can think because you are a rascal, but I know my business.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: You should reply like that.
Bhagavān: Last night, when you gave him the example that the father is beyond the experience of the child...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: At that point, he stopped arguing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. And mother is the only evidence. That's all. Similarly, acintyaḥ khalu ye bhava na tas tarkeṇa yojayet (?). Śāstra says that "What is beyond your experience, you don't argue on that point." You go to the authority and take it. Why you should you argue? It is beyond your experience. Therefore you must find out who can give you the experience. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). But don't stop there, that "It is beyond my experience; therefore I should not have experience." This is foolishness. If it is beyond your experience, then go to a person who has got experience and take from him. Suppose if I am in this park. I do not know which way to go. It is beyond my experience. Then I ask one gentleman, "Where shall I go?" He'll say, "Please go this way." This is the way. Why should you stop and think others also, that God is beyond his experience also? Why? It may be beyond your experience, but unless you go to a person who has got actually experience, how can you get the experience? (pause)
Prabhupāda: Basin, basin. So one basin full rice he will keep in the middle of the shop. And there are rats. So the rats will take the rice, and not cut even a single cloth. It is practical. Yes. They are also animals. Give them food. They'll not create any disturbance. Give them food. Yes. Because cloth are very costly. And there are rats. If one cloth is cut by the rat, then it is great loss. So to save from this loss, he'll put in a basin... Rice was nothing. Rice... In our childhood, we have seen, two ānās per seer. That is with profit. You see. So one basin full rice, it doesn't cost even one ānā. So by giving one ānā worth food, he saves so many, hundreds of rupees cloth. Otherwise, if they're hungry, they'll cut it. Everyone has got obligation. Even the tiger. Even the tiger... One saintly person was in the jungle. His disciples said the tigers will never come and disturb in the āśrama because the āśrama head, they'll keep some milk little far away from the āśrama, and the tigers will come and drink and go away. He'll call, "You tiger, come and take your milk here!" Just like we call the dogs. They'll come and take the milk and go away.
Prabhupāda: Therefore... Yes. And not only kicked out. Who knows that he has been given a different body, maybe cats and dogs? So what is the value of this creation? Suppose I create this building, and on account of mentality, nature gives me next body a dog, and... Then what is my profit?
Yogeśvara: Yeah, there was that man who came to see you a couple of days ago. His argument was that we can't really say for sure because it's not perceivable that we will take a dog's body. But at least this is something we can understand. Here's something, a nice accomplishment.
Prabhupāda: But you understand, but you can understand also that you'll be kicked out. Don't you understand this?
Bhagavān: He doesn't know it.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Therefore, he's a fool.
Bhagavān: There's a statement that says that...
Prabhupāda: Just like suppose if I do something here in Paris, and if you say, "Sir, as soon as your visa is finished, you'll be kicked out," shall I be interested to create anything? That is intelligence, that "I will be kicked out after two months. Why shall I construct such a big scheme?" That is intelligence. So these rascals know that he'll be kicked out. Still, he works day and night for collecting bricks and stones and he becomes a big man. Mean a foolish rascal, he is considered a big man. Therefore śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19).
Yogeśvara: He says that for him, that's not really a problem. He says rather than referring to the person Kṛṣṇa, he just goes directly to the teaching of the Gītā, and he profits from that.
Prabhupāda: No, teachings of Bhagavad-gītā means Kṛṣṇa. That is the folly of the so-called scholars. They want to study Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. Just like one wants to play Hamlet without Hamlet. (French, mentions Śaṅkara) Śaṅkara has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Does he know that, that Śaṅkara has accepted Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Personality? (French)
Yogeśvara: So his point is that, well, ultimately, the, now what is going to happen, he says, is we're going to get into a discussion about whether or not the Supreme is a person or impersonal, and he says he doesn't really have the time to get into that.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Then? What did he...? Why he come here? What for?
Yogeśvara: We invited him. (laughter) (French)
Devotee: Well, at the end of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They feed them every time, whenever they do something.
Prabhupāda: No, after catching them from the forest, they kept within the bars, and no eating for at least one week. Then the trainer comes. Only whips. He comes, and open the doors and only: (makes sound) Flosh, flosh, flosh. So already he's hungry, weak, and he's whipped. In this way, he becomes fearful. As soon as the man comes, he becomes fearful. Then he gives him little food. In this way, after all it is animal, he thinks that "This man is my God. He can save me. He can kill me." Then he takes to him. Whatever he says, he takes. Similarly, if you do not give the ingredients for sense enjoyment, the mind will be controlled. That is the beginning. You simply... Don't give... The mind wants, "Now let me go to the restaurant." "No, sir." Beat him with shoes. Instead of going to the restaurant, he beats the mind with shoes. Then mind will not again say, "Go to the restaurant." That is called swami, gosvāmī. One who can control his mind, that is gosvāmī. We giving the title "Gosvāmī" But if you cannot control your mind, then you are unfit. Go means senses, and svāmī means master. One who can control the senses and master, he is gosvāmī. (pause) ...definition of gosvāmī there: vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ manasa-vegam udara-vegam upastha-vegam, etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt (NOI 1). You have to control the impulse of speaking, vāco vegam, the impulse of becoming angry, vāco vegam, krodha-vegam. Then manasa-vegam, force of the mind. Then udara-vegam, the belly. Belly, already, although it is filled up, and as soon as there is some nice... Please fill up again, again. This you have to control, udara-vegam. Udaropastha-vegam, genital. In this way, one who has controlled all these forces, he is able to make disciple all over the world. Otherwise, not this rascal guru. As soon as he saw one very beautiful secretary, "Oh, let me enjoy." And he's guru. So these are cheating. And people want to be cheated. Therefore the cheaters are there. (break) ...fourteen years old. A fourteen years old cannot be induced to marry a twenty-six years girl. That is unnatural. And by medical examination, it is found that he's at least thirty-two years. It is declared in the medical, and still, the rascals following him. That he's cheating by talking false things. So in one sense, the Western boys and young generation, they are actually hankering after some spiritual life. So any Indian, so-called sādhu and guru comes, they go there. But they are cheated unfortunately. So you make your society so strong that you be not cheated, and others may not cheat. Then it will be first-class. And if you make another society of cheaters and cheated, there is no profit. Therefore you have to follow the rules and regulations very strictly and become serious. Then you'll be ideal. People are in need of some spiritual energy. Therefore, as soon as some swamis or guru comes, they flock together to get some food. But these rascals are cheating. So you don't do that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, unless..., how he can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? If he takes as a fashion, that is another thing. Just like the man who cannot tolerate commits suicide. Therefore you told me. Yes. One who is completely disgusted with this material life, he becomes fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Satsvarūpa: What about Lord Caitanya who prayed that "I don't mind coming back again and again"?
Prabhupāda: That is devotee's sincerity, that he does not go to Kṛṣṇa for some material profit. Any condition, he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is his humbleness. And a devotee, actual devotee, he doesn't want. But it happens. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti (BG 4.9). It will take automatically. But he is not, I mean to say, very serious, that "I must go to Kṛṣṇa and be saved from these material miseries." A devotee never says like that. He wants that "Never mind miseries. Let me chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is his position.
Satsvarūpa: For us, is the perfection to be absorbed in preaching to others?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No. I have got many disciples. They were formerly theologicians. What is the name, that boy in America?
Satsvarūpa: In Arabia?
Prabhupāda: No, no. There was a boy. He was theologician. Prajāpati, Prajāpati. Do you remember? He was theologician. Our only request is that Bible confirms there is name. Now, even though they do not know the name, here is the name, Kṛṣṇa. So why people will not take this name to chant? And if by chanting the name there is practical benefit, why they should object? Why they should be so sectarian? Theologician, at least, must not be sectarian. So let the whole world chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So there is no loss. If there is any gain, why not take it? And because you are writing books, therefore I am requesting you to write this, that some of the Christians, they say there is no name, but Christ says there is name, and here is the name. They are chanting, and they are getting profit. We don't want anything. We don't want any price, that I have researched the name.
Prabhupāda: Hen. The hen is giving egg and, by the backside, by the rectum, and eating by the mouth. So one man is considering that "This mouthpiece is expensive because I have to give to eat. Better cut it." So if the mouth is cut, then there will be no egg because it's a dead body. So this is not good logic, (laughing) that the expensive portion may be cut and the profitable portion may be kept. This kind of interpretation will not be helpful. If you accept the whole, this side and that side, then business will go on. (German)
Pater Emmanuel: In the Christian tradition... (German)
Prabhupāda: The first commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But they are killing. The first point is disobedient. Then where is love of God?
Pater Emmanuel: (German) It is in the relation of man. "Don't kill," it says, the Christianity understands...
Prabhupāda: Why they understand like that? That means that Lord Christ was not sufficiently educated to use the right word, "murder"? Does it mean so? There are two words, killing and murder. Murder is especially meant for the human being. So do you think that Christ was not learned enough to use the word murder instead of "killing"? "Killing" means any kind of killing, especially animal killing. Otherwise you should have frankly openly used the word, "Thou shall not murder." Even if it is meant like that, so does it mean that he was preaching amongst the murderers? They are very first-class men? They are all murderers? Therefore the injunction. This kind of interpretation does not appeal to us.
Prabhupāda: So you can hear that lecture, how it was. They appreciated so much. We have no disrespect for Christianity. (pause) At least, expose our so-called Indian ambassador and others... Approach them, that "Help us. What is this? What for you are here?" Even they do not allow by agitation, make the movement very important. Make profit this side or that side. That is businessman. The businessman makes profit when the price is going down and when the price is going up. They make their profit. That is businessman. Just like our Tripurāri, he goes on selling his book in any condition. He finds out some means how to sell in this condition. This is intelligence, how to deal in different circumstances and make profit. That is brain. And if you make condition, "If these conditions are there, then I can make business," that is foolishness.
Brahmānanda: You told me that when I came from Pakistan to India. I was complaining how difficult it was, but you said that a businessman makes profit in any circumstances.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is business. They are... Police has no eyes to see that the Bala-Krishna (Guru Maharaji) is regularly cheating. Any man can understand.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (7): The young children also? What about young children?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Young children should be educated from the very beginning about God consciousness or the science of God. We had the opportunity in our childhood. My father taught. And then, when I was grown up, my spiritual master taught. So for that reason we have got some sense. Spiritual education should be given...
- kaumāra ācaret prājño
- dharmān bhāgavatān iha
- durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma
- tad apy adhruvam arthadam
- (SB 7.6.1)
This is statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was a five-years-old boy and a devotee. So he was trying to preach amongst his classfellows. The classfellows said, "Why you are bothering about spiritual consciousness, God consciousness, now? We are young men. Let us play." He said, "No. The spiritual life should begin kaumāra, just at the beginning of five years." Why? Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma: "This human form of life is very rarely obtained, and we do not know when we shall die. So before our next death we must be spiritually equipped. That is the business of human life." There is no guarantee when death will come. A child may also die tomorrow. There is no guarantee. Therefore spiritual education should begin as soon as a child can understand something. Because there is no guarantee that he will remain for many years. There is no guarantee. So the business of human life is to revive our lost relationship with God. So if we miss, then I may get another body, not even human body. Then I miss the opportunity. There are 8,400,000 types of forms. Just like the trees, they are all... (break) ...human form of life. And that may take millions of years. So if we miss this opportunity of human life, to revive our relationship with God, and next life I become something else, then how much great loss it is, just try to understand. This human form of body is obtained after many, many millions of years' struggle. So this is also temporary, as the cats' and dogs' body, they are also temporary. But although it is temporary, it is arthadam. You can achieve the real purpose of life. That is the privilege of this human form of... Therefore as soon as possible, the spiritual education should begin, immediately. If the child simply can understand, "God is great," that is immense profit for him. (break) ...means from five years to twenty-five years, brahmacārī, he has nothing to learn except God, brahmacārī. Brāhme carati iti brahmacārī. He is simply interested in Brahmān. That is called brahmacārī. He has no material interest. That is the foundation of spiritual life. Brahmacārī. And if he can, he remains brahmacārī throughout the whole life. But if he is unable, then he is allowed to marry, gṛhastha. So according to Vedic civilization, any education should begin at childhood. Therefore even one is king's son, he was sent to Gurukula to remain as brahmacārī to learn the basic principle of life. That is Vedic civilization.
Guest: Somebody that manufactures a product which is basically destructive.
Prabhupāda: No. Coca-Cola company... Of course, we advise... Kṛṣṇa advises, yat karoṣi. It includes Coca-Cola company. But He said yat karoṣi: "Whatever you do." Kṛṣṇa said, "Whatever you do." So that includes all kinds of activities. But will the Coca-Cola company agree to give the profit to Kṛṣṇa? Then he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. The profit he will enjoy for his wine and woman, that's all, not for Kṛṣṇa. That is the difficulty.
Guest: Can the profit of the manufacture of something which is manufactured purely for profit be turned to good?
Prabhupāda: Yes, if he gives to Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He fought. He killed. Killing is not good business, but he killed on the advice of Kṛṣṇa, and he became a bhakta by killing. Kṛṣṇa said, bhakto 'si. And what did he do? He killed, that's all. This is an example. Of course, bhakta never kills. Kṛṣṇa... Arjuna was not willing to kill. But when he saw that "Kṛṣṇa wants it, so this is my first business. Never mind I shall go to hell," that is Kṛṣṇa conscious. "By killing my brother I may go to hell. It doesn't matter. But Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. That is my first business." Kṛṣṇa sometimes pretended to be sick. And many physicians came, they could not cure Him, headache. So He suggested that "I think if My devotee gives their dust of foot on My head, then I'll be cured." Then every devotee was approached that "Give your dust of feet. Kṛṣṇa wants it." Even Nārada. So Nārada said, "How it is possible I shall give my dust of feet to Kṛṣṇa? No, no, no, it is not possible." But when the person, messenger, approached gopīs in Vṛndāvana and they were informed that "Kṛṣṇa is sick. So He wanted the dust of feet of the devotee to be applied on His head. Nobody gave it.
Atreya Ṛṣi: So what I was...
Prabhupāda: It is not a fact that by reducing the price you'll sell more.
Jayatīrtha: No, no. Not reducing the price to the public. Reducing the cost to the temple, so the temple can make more profit.
Prabhupāda: That you can do.
Jayatīrtha: That we discussed with you in Dallas.
Atreya Ṛṣi: What I am recommending is that, instead of reducing the charge to the temple and then collecting a separate tax, do not reduce the charge to the temple. Whatever reduction you were going to give, give that reduction to Gurukula.
Jayatīrtha: Then that means that BBT is paying.
Atreya Ṛṣi: No, BBT is not paying. You're going to give them a reduction. Don't give it to them...
Madhudviṣa: That means giving them unlimited money.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Eh?
Madhudviṣa: That means giving them unlimited money.
Atreya Ṛṣi: No. Well, for example, let's say I...
Madhudviṣa: If I distribute more books, then Gurukula gets more money. Then... They don't need all that money.
Atreya Ṛṣi: No.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This... This is... Contribution is better for you.
Prabhupāda: Then? How...? Why he is taking?
Jayatīrtha: Because we were working illegally.
Haṁsadūta: The thing is the whole situation has deteriorated into a karmī business, and no one's making any profit on it.
Jayatīrtha: Well, now, let's...
Haṁsadūta: It's just a headache.
Jayatīrtha: That is a... That is an unschooled statement, an uneducated statement. It's not a...
Haṁsadūta: No, that's not a fact. Where is the advantage?
Jayatīrtha: Anyway, let me finish... That's why I don't want to discuss this in front of Prabhupāda, because of argument. Anyway, the next point is that, as far as Karandhara's salary is concerned...
Prabhupāda: No, the Spiritual Sky was contemplated that our gṛhastha bhaktas may be employed...
Haṁsadūta: Yeah, but they're not employed anymore.
Jayatīrtha: That's not true.
Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world. So we can better talk on the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. Our philosophy is we present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without malinterpretation. So we want to defy everyone who is malinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā. So we have to follow the authorities. And Bhagavad-gītā is accepted as authority. Otherwise, why they're reading so widely all over the world Bhagavad-gītā? Why not come on this term? Why you catch up so many literature? If, on this basis, there is a conference, that will be profitable, that "If you accept Bhagavad-gītā as authority or one of the authorities, so you cannot misinterpret the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā." But the Westerners, they are very expert in misinterpreting even their own Bible. We say that if you interpret any śāstra, either Bible or Bhagavad-gītā, then it is no more śāstra. It is your play toy. By so-called your rascal vote, without any reason and rhythm and rhyme, you can do everything.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They sometimes say that because Bhagavad-gītā was originally in the Sanskrit language...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...and that because now it's been translated into the English language, there is necessary interpretation.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore we are giving the original verse, word to word meaning.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More than twenty lakhs.
Prabhupāda: So give me, what is called, consensus.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The idea is the Book Fund, if the book is sold, it's sold at a profit. So although you may be getting only twenty or thirty lakhs, much more is being collected. That is the point.
Prabhupāda: So why did you not correct me in the meeting? (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I didn't... (laughter) Even ten lakhs is a very impressive figure.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ten lakhs expenditure but twenty lakhs collection.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But I think now we should say fifty lakhs expenditure and...
Prabhupāda: One crore.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One crore collection. That will be a nice target. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...getting more price for their land on account of the temple.
Prabhupāda: Position. Material world means they want some material gain, some adoration, and some fame. That's all. This is material world. So if by bluffing you I get some material profit and adoration and fame, why shall I not do it? Everyone is doing that.
Amogha: That's the cheating propensity.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In material world they have come to imitate God—adoration, fame, material profit. Just like this man. He has come to this country. He is getting money, he is getting woman, and becoming God amongst the fools. He is satisfied. That's all. This is not gain? If I get woman, money, and adoration, is it not gain for me?
Gaṇeśa: Yes, just like Hiraṇyakaśipu.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Materialistic man means he wants all these things in different way. Somebody is becoming God, somebody is becoming philosopher, somebody is becoming scientist, in this way. Real purpose is these three things. Abha-pūjā-pratiṣṭhā. And our philosophy? We don't want anything of this. Just see. Negation. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). Say... All denial, "We don't want." That is Vaiṣṇavism. Then what do you want? "We want simply to serve Kṛṣṇa." This is our position. They don't want to serve Kṛṣṇa; they want to imitate Kṛṣṇa. And that is their satisfaction.
Prabhupāda: They are discussing in the university homosex. They are advanced. Advancement of education. Just see. They are not even fourth-class men; they are animals, producing so many animals, that's all, dogs and hogs. (break) ...in the beginning śamaḥ. Śamaḥ, damaḥ-first two business. Control the sense and keep the mind undisturbed. That is the beginning. Now they are so much sexually disturbed, they're discussing about the profit of homosex. Where is first-class men?
Amogha: They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because...
Prabhupāda: Yes, fourth-class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we are not going to hear of it. A fourth-class man's philosophy, we will have to waste our time to hear them—that's not good. They are not even fourth class; they are animal class. Fourth class has got some position, but they are narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. So what is their philosophy, and who is going to spoil his time to hear about their philosophy? (break)
Paramahaṁsa: In that verse it says, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. What is the difference between jñānam and vijñānam?
Prabhupāda: Jñānam means theoretical, vijñānam means practical.
Paramahaṁsa: Only three or four cents apiece.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Paramahaṁsa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: They don't make much profit. That is the oriental culture. They make little profit; they are satisfied. Still in India you will find many hotel, very cheap, very cheap. Especially Mohammedan hotels. Still, by paying eight annas, you can get full meal.
Devotee (1): When Rāvaṇa was on the earth, was the whole earth populated, like Brazil and also the other parts of the world?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere population. This is a new theory of the rascals that there was no civilization before three thousand years. This is wrong theory. Everything was there.
Jesuit: Well, I have kept you long enough. I...
Prabhupāda: No, you can keep me engaged whole day and night, (laughter) provided you have got time. We are meant for this purpose. If anyone can understand God consciousness, that is a great profit for us. Now our appeal is to everyone, every religious sect, that people are becoming godless generally at the present moment. So we should make combined effort to revive their God consciousness. Otherwise it is doomed. And there is no question of Christian God or Hindu God or Muslim God. God is one. So there should be no difference between the system. According to the time and circumstances, there may be little difference, but really if we can understand God, either through Christianity or through Hinduism or Muslim, that is our profit. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). "That is first-class religion, following which, one becomes a lover of God". You become a lover of God. That we want to see. It doesn't matter whether you go through Christian religion or Mohammedan religion or Hindu religion or Buddhist...
It doesn't matter. You understand God and love Him.
Jesuit: I agree entirely.
Prabhupāda: This is our mission.
Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense scientific? That is... We reject immediately. What is scientific? A tiny brain, what is their science? Phene bare dhake nate ute. A snake catcher... There is a kind of snake which has no poison. So he cannot catch even that non-poisonous snake, and he's trying to catch one cobra. So these scientists, what is their value? What they have done anything contribution to the world for the benefit of the human society? They could not give any relief from the disease, relief from old age, relief from death or birth. These are the real problems. So what is their contribution? They have given some horseless carriage. Again there is problem of power. What is actually benefit they have done, that this is the benefit from the scientists? Anything they have done, there is counter disadvantage. This is simply waste of time. Our... We consider our human life is very valuable, and before the next death we should prepare ourself go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our philosophy. We cannot waste a minute time before the next death comes. That is our philosophy. So why should we waste our time, "Where is the moon? Where is sun?" Just have it gist idea, that's all. (break) ...no profit. Suppose the position of the moon is correct according to Bhāgavata or according to the scientist, what benefit we shall get out of it? Whichever may be correct or wrong.
Prabhupāda: We are not getting any profit out of it. So why should we bother about it? Adhara vapare jaj akalara. We are dealing in ginger. Then what is the use of asking, "What is the hire, I mean to say, freight for a big ship?" If you are dealing with ginger, ginger is not sold by tons. When you go to purchase ginger, you take one or two pieces. So those who are dealing in ginger, what is the use of asking what is the fare of a freight ship? We are not going to...
Siddha-svarūpa: It doesn't have anything to do... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...be done by Darwin, that he will live for fifty years; he is giving account millions of years. "Some millions of years after, this evolution takes place like this." Huh? Will he live for millions of years? Why he's talking of millions of years? This is a waste of time. He will live for fifty years or, say, utmost, hundred years, and he's talking of millions of years.
Prabhupāda: No. Materialists cannot understand spiritual subject matter. It is not for them.
Harikeśa: So there is a project in Los Angeles where some psychologists are examining all the devotees.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: Some psychologists are there. They are doing a laboratory test on all the devotees.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he may study in his own way, but he will not profit.
Harikeśa: He will not profit. So this, the findings, even if they are published will not profit?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: The findings? They are going to...
Prabhupāda: So what is their findings? The devotees are working on the soul platform but he does not know what is soul.
Dharmādhyakṣa: And the tests would show that in the karmī world there's more...
Prabhupāda: ...psychology is philosophy, part of philosophy. So philosophers are better than these fools, karmīs. They are accepted as ass. Karmīs are accepted as the animal ass. Why? Because the ass works day and night without any personal profit. The ass, they work very hard. You have seen ass? And he is working? In India we see very usually. It is loaded with tons of things. He cannot move even. You see. And he agrees to work. And what is his benefit? He gets little grass. But the grass can be had without any working. But this rascal does not know. He agrees to work hard, day and night. So all these karmīs, I have seen in New York, they are working so hard and they are eating only a glass of tea and this dry loaf.
Jayatīrtha: The race track.
Brahmānanda: They are betting, gambling.
Jayatīrtha: Gambling is becoming much more widespread now in America.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have no good business.
Jayatīrtha: The government is using it as a good way of getting more taxes and profits. The government is handling all the lotteries and horse races themselves now more and more.
Prabhupāda: They also get good excise tax from liquor.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. A very big source of revenue.
Brahmānanda: In Germany the government supports prostitution.
Prabhupāda: Germany?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. They opened up their own prostitution houses, the government.
Brahmānanda: They now have a skyscraper in Germany. The skyscraper is a brothel, and you drive your car in, and they have television screens. And you see on the television screen what girl you like.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā.
Prabhupāda: Unmotivated means "Oh, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, service of Kṛṣṇa, is so nice. Let me begin immediately." Now, "What will be the result? What shall I gain? What is the profit?" No such consideration. "Begin immediately." And if you begin in that way, there is no impediment. Apratihatā. It is so nice thing. In the material world, if you want to begin some work, then you require some preliminary qualification. It doesn't require any preliminary qualification. Whatever qualification you have got, that is sufficient. Begin. And nobody can say, "Oh, I am not educated," "I am not rich," or "I am not born of a high family." There are so many. No. These things are not impediments. Educated or uneducated, culture or no culture, it doesn't matter. You can begin immediately. The Indian culture was checked by the caste brāhmaṇas, that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for the Hindus." Therefore it was not spread. Such a great thing, philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, remained covered because they thought it is meant for the Hindus, for the Indians, or those who came out of India, they misinterpreted in a rubbish way. And now it is being presented as it is, it is becoming effective. Therefore apratihatā: nothing material can check its progress. Unless one voluntarily refuses it, there is no checking. Some other professor was to come?
Prabhupāda: "With mind attached to Me." This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to keep the mind attached to Kṛṣṇa. That is success. That yoga we are practicing, how to keep the mind attached to Kṛṣṇa. Then it is successful. Our mind is attached to something. Without attachment, mind cannot be free even for a moment. So the bhakti-yoga means how to transfer the attachment of mind to Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are working, you are rendering your service without any charges, without any profit—why? Because your mind has been attached to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise what business you have got to work for Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement without any remuneration? You are all American boys. You are qualified. You can earn thousands of dollars. But why you have given up? Because you are attached to Kṛṣṇa. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). You have found better attachment; therefore you given up. So that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are attached to so many nonsense things. When we wind up all these attachments and concentrate on Kṛṣṇa, then life is perfect. That is wanted. We are not going to sacrifice attachment. But we are trying to transfer the attachment from matter to Kṛṣṇa. Then our life is successful. But that attachment is very rare.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And tobacco.
Devotee: For money, for profit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And tobacco.
Prabhupāda: Tobacco, by which... They know tobacco is bad, and they are utilizing time for growing tobacco and smoking tobacco. This is their intelligence. So blind men... Give them intelligence, these rascals. We call therefore only rascals. People are dying for want of food grains, and they are growing tobacco, which smoking, they will go to hell. This is their intelligence. Huh? What do you think?
Satsvarūpa: I agree.
Prabhupāda: This is the idea.
Sudāmā: And they even indicate, Prabhupāda, on the advertisements that smoking is hazardous for the health.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...for money, the money which will push them to hell. This is their intelligence. We have to give them intelligence, open their eyes. (break) ...angry first of all because mūrkhāyo 'padeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye: "If you give good intelligence to the fools and rascals, they will be angry." But still, you have to do it. Just like when Nityānanda Prabhu went to Jagāi-Mādhāi to deliver them, they became angry and injured. So that is preacher. These rascals will be angry, will sometimes do harm to you, and still, you have to do it. That is preaching. Are you understanding what is preaching? Yes. You have to prepare like that. At all risk you have to preach. (break) ...world is full of rascals, and you have to educate them. So according to one's capacity let them preach, prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. But everyone can preach to some extent. There is no hindrance.
Prabhupāda: Who teaches these things—how to know God and how to love Him—he is spiritual master. Otherwise bogus, rascal bogus. Sometimes they mislead that "I am God." Poor people, they do not know what is God, and a rascal proposes, "I am God," and they accept it. Just like in your country they elected Nixon president and again drag him. That means they did not know who is really bona fide president, elected somebody, and again they had to business of dragging out. Similarly, people are foolish. Any rascal comes. He says, "I am God." They accept. And again they accept another. This is going on. So one must be serious student to understand what is God and how to love Him. That is religion. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. That we are teaching. That is the difference between others and our... We are presenting Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the science, how to know Him. The Bhagavad-gītā is there, Bhāgavata is there. Not bogus. Authorized. Therefore this is the only institution which can teach how to know God and how to love Him. Two business. There is no third business. It is not our business to ask God to give us our necessities. We know God gives necessities to everyone, even one who has no religion. Just like cats and dogs. They have no religion. They do not know what is religion. But still, the cats and dogs are supplied with necessities of life. So why we should bother Kṛṣṇa, asking Him, "Give us our daily bread"? He is supplying already. Our business is how to love Him. That is religion. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: "That is first-class religion which teaches how to love God." And that love—not for any material motive: "God, You give me this. Then I will love." No. Ahaitukī. Love means without any personal profit. If I love God for some profit that is business. That is not love. Ahaituky apratihatā. And such love of God cannot be checked by any material cause. In any condition, one can learn how to love God. It is not conditional, that "I am poor man. How shall I love God? I have got so many things to do." No, it is not like that. Poor, rich or young or old, black or white, there is no impediment. If one wants to love God, he can love God.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual paths are divided into four. Not spiritual. Real spiritual, mixed spiritual. Just like this, "God, give us our daily bread." It is mixed spiritual. One has approached God, God is spiritual, but one is asking for material profit. So this is mixture, matter and spirit. So there are four classes generally known as karmī, fruitive actors, they work for getting some material profit. They are called karmī. Just like all men, you will see, they are working so hard day and night, driving their cars, (makes noise of cars) this way and that way. The purpose is how to get some money. This is called karmī. And then jñānī. Jñānī means he knows that "I am working so hard. Why? The birds, beasts, the elephants, big, big..., eight million different types of..., they are not. They have no business. They have no profession. How they are eating? So why unnecessarily I work so much? Let me know what is the problem of life." So they understand the problem of life is birth, death, old age and disease. And they want to solve it, how to become immortal. So they have conclusion that "If I merge into God's existence, then I become immortal or immune from birth, death, old age and disease." This is called jñānī. And some of them are yogis. They try to acquire some spiritual power to make a show how he can play wonder. A yogi can become very small.
Brahmānanda: In the First Canto?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate. The first thing is that people become religious. Just like in your Christian religion they go to the church to get some material profit. "Oh God, give us our daily bread." This is material profit. Similarly, Hindus or Muslims, they become religious, dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), the material activities. Those who are actually advanced... Those who are not even human beings, their philosophy is different. Those who are human beings, their dharma, religion. Then artha, economic development, and then kāma, sense gratification, and then mokṣa, liberation. These four things are taken as general activities. So Bhāgavata says your dharma... Religious principle means the ultimate goal is how to become liberated, not artha. Artha means economic development. So then question may be if you do not, if we are not economically developed then how we shall live? The Bhāgavata says that you can make economic development as far as it maintains your body and soul together. Not that making whole life economic development and real purpose of life forget. This is foolishness. So dharma, artha. Dharma means, religious advancement means how to get out of this material condition. Not that I go to temple and chant, "God, give me millions of dollars, and this, and that." This is not possible. It is good that one has gone to God to ask some help, that much credit is there. You have found out the verse?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Brahmānanda: We have already discussed that pure devotional service to the Lord is automatically followed by perfect knowledge and detachment from material existence. But there are others who consider that all kinds of different occupational engagements, including those of religion, are meant for material gain. The general tendency of any ordinary man in any part of the world is to gain some material profit in exchange for religious or any other occupational service. Even in the Vedic literatures, for all sorts of religious performances an allurement of material gain is offered, and most people are attracted by such allurements or blessings of religiosity. Why are such so-called men of religion allured by material gain? Because material gain can enable one to fulfill desires, which in turn satisfy sense gratification. This cycle of occupational engagements includes so-called religiosity followed by material gain and material gain followed by fulfillment of desires. Sense gratification is the general way for all sorts of fully occupied men. But in the statement of Sūta Gosvāmī, as per the verdict of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, this is nullified by the present śloka.
One should not engage himself in any sort of occupational service for material gain only. Nor should material gain be utilized for sense gratification. How material gain should be utilized is described as follows.
Prabhupāda: People are after material gain. They have no spiritual information even, what is spirit, what is the need of spiritual realization, they do not know. Therefore they have been described as mūḍhas: fools and rascals. Those who are after material way of...
Prof. Hopkins: Do you... Do you think then that that, that message is the most important message that you have to convey?
Prabhupāda: This is the most important message. Because you are not this material body. Suppose you have got this shirt. If you simply try to maintain this shirt, is that very good intelligence, without taking care of your person? Similarly, if we are spirit soul and the body is just like dress, so the whole material world is, everyone is engaged to take care of the body. Nobody knows what is spirit soul, what is this need. Nobody knows. All these educational institutions, they are blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). And the whole system is also blind. If a blind man leads another blind man what is the benefit? No benefit. Therefore in your country, every country, it is a blind education. No spiritual enlightenment.
Prabhupāda: The example is also very simple. Just like a child is crying and somebody is offering some milk, somebody is offering something but he is still crying. Could not find any cause. Then when the child goes to the mother's lap, immediately (claps)-stops. He understands immediately, "Now I am on the lap of my mother, then everything is all right." Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Everyone is hankering after making some profit, this way, that way, this way, that way. But when one becomes, gets that supreme thing then he thinks, "Oh, I don't want anything." That is happiness. Unhappiness due to want. So the karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, they are all in want. They want something. Bhaktas are also sometimes in want. They want Kṛṣṇa. And in absence of Kṛṣṇa they are very unhappy, but that unhappiness is greater than happiness.
Prof. Hopkins: The gopīs in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is greater than happiness. And the Māyāvādī, karmī, jñānī, they cannot understand. They will say, "Your gopīs are also crying for Kṛṣṇa, for want of Kṛṣṇa." But they do not know that this want is different.
Paramahaṁsa: Like bell metal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And add mercury.
Paramahaṁsa: Is first the metals mixed together?
Prabhupāda: I do not know that. (laughter)
Paramahaṁsa: I'll give you all the profits.
Prabhupāda: I can give you suggestion. This example is given by Sanātana Gosvāmī.
- yathā kāñcanatāṁ yāti
- kaṁsyaṁ rāsa-vidhānataḥ
- tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena
- dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛnāṁ
This is the definition, that "As kaṁsya, the bell metal, by manipulating with mercury, it becomes gold, similarly, a person by the process of dīkṣā, initiation, be becomes a brāhmaṇa. This is the example he has given. Yathā kāñcanataṁ yāti. Kāñcanatam means gold. Rāsa-vidhānataḥ, by process of mercury manipulation. Why he has not taken other metal? This is in the śāstra. And the scientists—I do not know—they say that some, what is called, molecules? Some molecules added with mercury, it can be turned into gold.
Brahmānanda: Curd.
Prabhupāda: Curd. So curd you can send to the city. They will convert into sandeśa, rasagullā and other preparations, and ghee. That is being done. In India the villagers, they do that. They are, keep cows. Convert them into curd or ghee, and ghee and curd sent to the city, they have got regular price for that. There is no question of waste of milk at any stage. One must know how to do it. So you can keep as many cows as possible and collect as much milk from them. You can utilize. And if some of the villagers trained up, they can open nice restaurant in the city. Utilize the ghee, curd, for making nice confectionary. People will purchase like anything. Just like in our Rathayātrā festival, whatever sweets they prepared, all sold at good profit. Your countrymen, they did not see such nice things. And when they taste it—"Very nice."
Prabhupāda: Cobbler is less than śūdra. Yes. Cobbler means when the cows die, the cobbler may take it. If he wants, he can eat the flesh, and he can utilize the bone, hoofs. He can prepare... He gets the skin without any price. So he can make shoes and he'll make some profit. And because he is cobbler, he can be allowed to eat meat, fifth-class... Not that "Professor such-and-such," and eating meat. This is the degradation of society. He is doing the work of a brāhmaṇa—teacher means brāhmaṇa—and eating meat-Oh, horrible! Śyāmasundara? So make, organize. I can give you the idea, but I'll not live very long. If you can carry out, you can change the whole... Especially if you can change America, then whole world will change. Then the whole world... And it is the duty because they are kept in darkness and ignorance, then the human life is being spoiled. These rascals, because they do not know how to live... Andhā yathāndhair... They are blind, and they are leading... Others are blind, and they are leading and they, all of them, going to ditch. So it is the duty. There is... Caitanya has explained, para-upakāra. Save them. If it is not possible to save everyone, as many as possible... This is human life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to save others who are in the darkness. It is not a profession: "Now, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is my profession. I'm getting very easily food and shelter." Just like the Indians, they are doing, a profession, say another means of livelihood. Not like that. It is for para-upakāra, actually benefiting the others. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: What you'll explain in ten or fifteen page?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Otherwise all these books, they cost us about 1.40 for printing.
Brahmānanda: That Hanuman Prasad Poddar, he was producing big books at cheap rates.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They were all subsidized by Rama..., all his books. And he had no profit.
Harikeśa: Also the paper is given free by Samani.
Prabhupāda: No... Yes. They were receiving contribution. Besides that, he possessed agency of Titagara paper mill. So mill rate—immediately 33% less.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And I heard all his books were heavily subsidized by Dalmia.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Dalmia and many big, big Marwaris.
Harikeśa: Maybe they can produce your Hindi lectures in pamphlets.
Prabhupāda: So if... You can make it cheaper. Instead of three rupees, you can make it two rupees.
Brahmānanda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Formerly they were satisfied by tilling the ground, getting food grains. Now they have started factories. At the cost of thousands of men's labor, some director is getting money and enjoying life. That is progress. And these rascals, laborers, they are thinking that "These men are getting the profit, cream of this business. We are working. Why not take ourself?" That is Communism.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is one small coal mining town we did saṅkīrtana at, an Indian community. And they were thinking that "The coal mine is doing everything for us. They're giving us schools, they're giving us medicine, they're giving us... Without the coal mine where would we be?"
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: Here they think it's sugarcane. The sugarcane is everything.
Prabhupāda: Giving everything.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why can't people understand to depend on Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: There is māyā.
Prabhupāda: This is...? Yes.
Faill: That's you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you read these books and write regular articles on the basis of my talk with you, it will be actually great benefit to the public.
Faill: Well, I'm about the only person in Durban, I think, who tries to write about this at all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is the duty of the journalist to give real knowledge to the public. That is the duty of the journalist, not to give some hodgepodge idea without any effect.
Faill: I can't be bothered with profit (indistinct). I do a weekly science column, but it's more mysticism than science. I try and cover everything. Anyway, I won't keep you any longer.
Harikeśa: We're leaving at 9:45 A.M. on Tuesday.
Faill: 9:45.
Harikeśa: A.M. on Tuesday morning.
Faill: That's fine. Well, I'll try and get a photographer out and just get the group with you when you're catching the plane.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. Yes.
Indian man (1): ...regarding this Candi-pat.
Prabhupāda: Candi-pat means you, if you properly read, you get some material profit. That's all. No spiritual profit.
Indian man (1): There is no special significance in it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You get material profit. (break) Bhagavad-gītā it is said, (sic:) alpavat tu phalaṁ teṣām: "The result of material profit is for a short duration of time," tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām, "and these things are desired by less intelligent class of men." His real need is how to gain his spiritual life. That is his real need. But he does not want that. He wants some material profit for the time being. This is less intelligent. Suppose if somebody gives you some money and he says, "Tomorrow I shall take it away," will you... (laughs) So tad bhavaty alpa-medhasā. (break) ...kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanty anya-devatāḥ: (BG 7.20) "They worship demigods, bewildered by lusty desires." And so long we have got lusty desires, we have to change our body, and that we do not know, what kind of body we are going to get next birth. Therefore, without knowing this, if we become mad after material profit, then less intelligent.
Indian man (3): And in the way of hospitals?
Prabhupāda: Hospitals, there are many, but real hospitals... to cure the material disease, there is no hospital. They are... There are hundreds and thousands of hospitals for curing the disease of the body, but there is no hospital to cure the disease of the soul. That is the defect. So we are opening hospital for curing the disease of the soul. They have no information about the soul throughout the whole world. Even so-called religious organizations, they have no information about the soul. They go to religious ceremonies for material profit. They do not know what is the necessity of the soul and what is the disease of the soul. They do not know. (break) ...nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. What is the goal of life, these people, they do not know, mūḍhas. Mūḍha means rascals, gadha. They do not know what is the goal of life. They take calculation of the duration of life, that fifty, sixty, or hundred years. That's all. Beyond this, after this, they do not know. Yes. That is the defect. (break) Now, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that this temporary attempt to become happy-antavanta phalaṁ teṣām—it will end with the end of the body. But they do not know beyond this. Therefore alpam-medhasām, they are less intelligent. Just like a child playing. He likes to play and does not go to school. So do you think that is all right?
Indian man (3): No.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...very nicely, without any fail. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām (SB 1.2.8). But if he does not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then where is the profit? It is simply waste of time and energy. śrama eva hi kevalam. Anything, whatever it may be, it doesn't matter. Ye kṛṣṇa tattva vetta... If he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, then he is guru. Ye kṛṣṇa tattva vetta sei guru haya. (Hindi)
Yaśomatīnandana: (break) ...people, they are nice pious people, and they have accepted some of these gymnastic people as their guru. So they say, "Oh, our guruji is here. We have to go see our guruji," this, that. So how should we speak to them or how should we preach to them?
Prabhupāda: That you cannot do immediately unless he understands your philosophy. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Unless they understand that this philosophy is better than that, how he can give it up?
Yaśomatīnandana: Sometimes they even say that "You have your guru and I have my guru. It's all the same thing."
Prabhupāda: Yes, and a thief has also a guru. Then that guru is also the same thing. (Hindi) Here guru means tasmād gurum prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttaman (SB 11.3.21). (Hindi) Nāpnuvanti mahātmānam saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ.
Dr. Patel: Then we don't accept... It is very difficult to know the whole truth by any one of us.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore our process is upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. One has seen the truth. Not these rascals. Tattva-darśinaḥ. Darśinaḥ means who has actually seen. There is no change. The advice is tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevaya (BG 4.34). These are the quotes. Upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. Not that theoretical. Tattva-darśinaḥ. You have to go there. Then you will get knowledge. A blind man goes to another blind man. What is the profit? No profit.
Dr. Patel: Andhena andha-niyataḥ.(?)
Prabhupāda: Ah. Andha yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). A blind man must go to a man who has got eyes, who has seen. Then that is right knowledge. Now we are presenting this book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. Let anyone come and challenge. Let anyone come. We have got many scientists. They will talk. What is the value of speculation?
Dr. Patel: I think some scientists have talked nonsense before you, so you are... (laughs) All scientists are not like that, sir. (end)
Prabhupāda:
- akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā
- mokṣa kāma udāra dhīḥ
- tivreṇa bhakti-yogena
- yajeta puruṣaṁ param
- (SB 2.3.10)
If anyone is aspirant of some material benefit and worships Kṛṣṇa, he gets it. And gradually, he gets Kṛṣṇa. Then when he gets Kṛṣṇa, he forgets all material profit.
Girirāja: Like Dhruva Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Svamin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yace (CC Madhya 22.42). No more birth.
Indian: So all fruit of (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa devotees only. ...this (Hindi) Bilvamaṅgala complained to Lord Kṛṣṇa, "Why You are not with me all along." "It has taken eighteen janmas to get Me. Eighteen janmas. You have not done that much, so you have to wait long."
Jayapataka: (break) Why did Kṛṣṇa have all the demigod worship put in the Vedas?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jayapataka: They put... Vyāsadeva put all the demigod worship in the Vedas.
Prabhupāda: For the karmīs. Kṣipra bhavati... What is that? Kam kanta...
Jayapataka: Karmanaṁ siddhi.
Prabhupāda: Karmānaṁ siddhi yajanti iha devatā. Who is interested to take bhakti immediately? Nobody is interested.
Prabhupāda: Old and creating sound so much.
Tejās: They are losing several crores of rupees every year. One man told me that he rents buses to them, one of the men who came two, three days ago. So, he was telling before, he rents buses to the D.T.C., to the Delhi Transportation Corporation. He rents it to them for a rupee a kilometer and he makes about forty paisa. And even though they are getting it for a rupee a kilometer, they are still losing money on it. He is making profit and they are losing it. Because they sell the spare parts. They're so corrupt.
Prabhupāda: Take away the...
Tejās: Yes, the workers there... There's about sixty percent of their buses only, running. Forty percent are disabled because they are always losing the parts somehow.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also, I know, in Delhi, what the people do is... A lot of people, they don't buy the ticket. They give the conductor half the money, and so he lets them go free.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Then where the income? There is no income and there is loss.
Indian man: Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma...
Prabhupāda: Ah, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ, kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ sa sannyāsī... (BG 6.1). One who does not take the reward of his labor, he is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karam-phalaṁ. Everyone works for some profit, and one who does not take the profit, works for Kṛṣṇa, he is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ, kāryam. Kāryam means it is my duty to work for Kṛṣṇa. In this way one works, he is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī ca yogī ca na niraghir na cākriyaḥ. He is yogi also. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (to passerby) Just like Arjuna. He is fighting not for himself; for himself he declined to fight. But when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants, "All right, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). I shall fight. I shall kill my grandfather and everyone." This is sannyāsī.
| Page Title: | Profit (Conversations 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 08 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=103, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 103 |