Preaching (Conversations 1975 Jul - Dec)

Bhāvānanda: Oh, Mr... In Svarūp Gañj there's one big astrologer. So he saw your photograph, and he said, "This is the face of the most powerful spiritual personality on the planet."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Brahmānanda: Then what else?

Bhāvānanda: Then he said that "I can tell from his face that he can make a house in which the whole world can live peacefully."

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: At least I desire so. (break) Where your preaching was going on?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were preaching in Berkeley, California. Our other parties are spread out all over the country. One party is in Massachusetts, another party is in the South, southern United States.

Prabhupāda: Where in Massachusetts?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Amherst area. Then another party is in Michigan, another party in Illinois, another party is in Washington, in the state of Washington. There's a couple of others.

Prabhupāda: So his parties are working more. And book selling is going on?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. This past month we sold nearly five thousand big books.

Prabhupāda: Oh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And about 120,000 Back to Godheads.

Prabhupāda: So you are surpassing, what is his name?

Devotees: Tripurāri Mahārāja. (Prabhupāda laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we're just following in his footsteps. (break)

Viṣṇujana: ...a bus now, so he's going to compete by making new devotees and expanding his ranks. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...competition amongst the gopīs, who can satisfy Kṛṣṇa more. In the spiritual world there is also competition. (break) ...two parties, one, Rādhārāṇī's party, and one, Candravāli's party. (Car horn honks) Come on. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When we distribute these books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we think that it is you who are distributing them, that they are your books, and we are simply assisting to offer them to people. It is actually you who are doing all the preaching.

Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's book, we are all servants, engaged. (break) (laughing) Here your parents accusing me, and in India the caste brāhmaṇas accusing me. My standing... I do not know what is my standing. Your parents are accusing me, "This rascal, converting our sons to become mendicant without any material enjoyment." And there, "This rascal is giving sacred thread to the mlecchas and yavanas." (Still laughing)

Viṣṇujana: Is that why you keep traveling, Prabhupāda, so they won't catch you?

Prabhupāda: Nārada Muni was accused by Prajāpati Dakṣa that "You are traveling in the dress of a sādhu, but you are the most sinful man. You have turned my sons in the renounced order of life to become beggar, without any advancement, without any enjoyment." So that accusation is always there, beginning from Nārada Muni down to us. Some parents came to demonstrate?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. One of the important things about taking prasādam is that all the devotees sit together. It is actually a very spiritual activity. Just like in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the feasts...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is recommended, that we are following. But now it is not following?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I have to say frankly, I have seen now that in many... I don't want to get into mentioning any names, but some devotees are preaching this.

Prabhupāda: Preaching? Who is that nonsense, preaching.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Revatīnandana Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: He is a rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is preaching like this.

Prabhupāda: He is a rascal. He is becoming rascal, day by day. Stop him doing these things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So my question is: Supposing half of those men that are in our movement are householders. Would it not be more beneficial that everyone engages in preaching work, or is that impractical?

Prabhupāda: Preaching is for the sannyāsīs, for the brahmacārī. And householder, because they are brāhmaṇas, they can be engaged in Deity worship and also earning money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Business.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So it's not more practical to earn money by preaching?

Prabhupāda: If preaching, by preaching we can get money, why should we go to the karmīs?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because you wrote me in a letter that so far as you are concerned, you think that your books are enough to maintain the society.

Prabhupāda: I think so. But if they think that by doing some other business, they will get more money, then what can I say? This is very good business. Yes. We are preaching, at the same time getting money.

Devotee (2): We have found in our experience that some kinds of men do better in doing business. They feel more satisfied in collecting money in that way for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But that money should be used for Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Devotee (2): Yes. Different kinds of men have to be engaged in different ways. Otherwise they become dissatisfied.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, svakarmaṇā. Anyone, he likes to do something, that is his karma. But by that karma, he can serve Kṛṣṇa. Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate navaḥ. Saṁsiddhi means perfection. (break)

Devotee (1): ...in our preaching work we will be able to maintain our temples, and with our business activities, we will be able to expand and buy all these farms, do so many things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If it is favorable, do it, business.(?) Therefore we have made program: 50% must come to Kṛṣṇa, at least. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (In car:)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...because that many people are involved.

Prabhupāda: Dieting, the best thing is to take prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I mean on ekādaśī.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Ekādaśī, simply you should chant. No other business. Nirjala.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No preaching work? Should they go out for preaching?

Prabhupāda: No, those who are preaching, not for them. Those who are sitting idle, or they... (laughter) (break) ...has no other regulation, simply preaching. A preacher is so exalted. He hasn't got to follow any regulation. But don't take it. (laughter) And actually if one is busy in preaching work, that is first-class. (break) ...not my manufactured word, my Guru Mahārāja, that the... That Mādhava Mahārāja, when he was a brahmacārī, his name was Hayagrīva. So he was to go somewhere. So but he was sick. Guru Mahārāja was informed that he was sick and "Today is ekādaśī. He cannot take his regular meals." So Guru Mahārāja said, "No. Let him take immediately meals and go."

Revatīnandana: For preaching. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...Mahārāja would sacrifice everything for preaching.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. (break) He was not pleased with Bon Mahārāja, He could not do anything.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Sir, isn't the difficulty, rather, that the group of, I want to call them, hard-core group, the priests, the devotees, the followers, the little circle of people, have always been the ones that have followed the practices, but the fringe... Assume for example that Hare Kṛṣṇa grew to gigantic proportions as Christianity has grown. Would not it be the problem that the fringe areas, the ones who were not, who professed to be the followers... Would not they be the difficulty as the Christian is today? You have said that you...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that possibility is always there. But my proposal is that if you are not true Christian, then your preaching will not be effective. I don't say that now we are strictly following and we will not fall down in future. I don't say that. That fall down propensity, tendency is always there. But my proposal is that unless one is strictly follower of the principles, his preaching will not be effective. That is my charge.

Lt. Mozee: Yes. Well sir, again I thank you for your time. I thank you for this interview. And I thank you for the opportunity to find out more about the group that is Hare Kṛṣṇa. And I will deliver this tape recording to my superiors. Hopefully, hopefully it will be effective...

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Morning Walk -- July 6, 1975, Chicago:

Jagadīśa: (in car) ...discussed with Satsvarūpa Mahārāja and...

Prabhupāda: Why?

Jagadīśa: Because it would greatly facilitate my preaching.

Prabhupāda: You are already preaching.

Jagadīśa: But many of the devotees are not so inclined to listen to a householder, as to a sannyāsī.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Neither to the sannyāsīs. (break) ...this building?

Brahmānanda: It's the univers... It's a theo... (break)

Prabhupāda: Not for the students?

Jagadīśa: That's what they originally were for.

Prabhupāda: Now? (break) Eucalyptus? No.

Sudāmā: No, Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...one for the bathroom. (break) Eh? Fifth class. (break) ...fourth-class. (break) class. The same?

Sudāmā: It's the same one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, When you were... Many years ago you used to have me send you eucalyptus twigs from San Francisco.

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.

Devotee: What should I do if I'd like to preach more and become free from my family entanglements?

Prabhupāda: Just teach him what to do. Tell him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was his ques... What should you do...?

Devotee: I want to preach more and become free from my family entanglement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Jagadīśa is having some preaching programs. So your family is no hindrance. Preaching is not hindered by family, one way or the other.

Prabhupāda: Ahaituky apratihatā. Why don't you understand? Preaching cannot be checked by anything—if you want to preach. In any circumstances you can preach. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. Preaching can be executed by four things: by your life, by your money, by your intelligence, and by your words. You have got so many assets. So you can utilize it for preaching. Dedicate your life. If you think that you are family man, you cannot dedicate twenty-four hours, then earn money and give it to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement as other family men, they are earning money. Eh? Is it not? You can earn. In America there is good facility for earning money. They want that you work and take money.

Sudāmā: And they even indicate, Prabhupāda, on the advertisements that smoking is hazardous for the health.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...for money, the money which will push them to hell. This is their intelligence. We have to give them intelligence, open their eyes. (break) ...angry first of all because mūrkhāyo 'padeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye: "If you give good intelligence to the fools and rascals, they will be angry." But still, you have to do it. Just like when Nityānanda Prabhu went to Jagāi-Mādhāi to deliver them, they became angry and injured. So that is preacher. These rascals will be angry, will sometimes do harm to you, and still, you have to do it. That is preaching. Are you understanding what is preaching? Yes. You have to prepare like that. At all risk you have to preach. (break) ...world is full of rascals, and you have to educate them. So according to one's capacity let them preach, prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. But everyone can preach to some extent. There is no hindrance.

Jaga-jīvana: Is everything done in our movement for preaching? Everything that is done in our movement is done for preaching?

Prabhupāda: Yes. To awaken their Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are in dog consciousness; we have to raise them to God consciousness. Don't you see how much they are taking care of the dog? Because they do not know, blind, whether they will be God conscious or dog conscious. So the dog conscious people should be raised to the platform of God conscious. That is preaching. Mūḍha nābhijānāti. These rascals, they do not know the life is meant for understanding God. That they... Ask anyone. Nobody knows. They are so fool. They want to remain dog. The dog is also running; they are also running. And because they can run on by car, they are thinking they are civilized. But the business is running, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eating, sleeping, mating and defending.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (break) ...condemn running by car, but utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. That we want. If the purpose is same, like dog, then what is the use of running by car? (break) ...by car to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...not after that philosophy, that jagan mithyā brahma satya, no. We say jagat is also satya because brahma satya, the jagat is also satya. It is mithyā because it is improperly utilized. Let it be utilized properly, it is also truth. It is truth actually. You cannot say, "This is a false tree." This is the ignorance. How it is false? But it is being misused. That is false. You cannot misuse anything which is given by God. You should properly utilize it. Then it is truth. And as soon as you misuse it, it is untruth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So material consciousness is false.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything can be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. That is our preaching. That is truth. There is a nice car. Why shall I condemn it? Utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. Then it is truth. And the Māyāvādī philosophers, they will say, "It is untruth. Give it up." No. When you have produced something by your good intelligence, it is truth, but when you use it for other purpose than Kṛṣṇa, then it is false. (break) ...Deity nicely decorated, if I say, "It is all false," is that very good sense? They have created such a nice thing. No, the purpose for which you have created or utilized, that is false. So we want to change the consciousness. We don't condemn the thing. (break) ...with a knife you are cutting vegetables and utilizing, but if you use it for cutting your throat, that is bad. That is bad. So they are using the knife for cutting their own throat. This is bad. (break) The śāstra says, nidrāham ādyaṁ plavaṁ sukalpam. This body... We are just crossing the ocean of nescience. So this body is a good boat. māyā ete 'rtaṁ guruḥ karṇa-dharam. And the wind is favorable, Kṛṣṇa's instruction.

Prabhupāda: So we want to change the consciousness. We don't condemn the thing. (break) ...with a knife you are cutting vegetables and utilizing, but if you use it for cutting your throat, that is bad. That is bad. So they are using the knife for cutting their own throat. This is bad. (break) The śāstra says, nidrāham ādyaṁ plavaṁ sukalpam. This body... We are just crossing the ocean of nescience. So this body is a good boat. māyā ete 'rtaṁ guruḥ karṇa-dharam. And the wind is favorable, Kṛṣṇa's instruction. And the captain is guru. He is guiding you. With all these facilities, if you cannot cross the nescience, then you are cutting your throat. (break) ...boat is there, the captain is there, the favorable wind is there. But we are not utilizing it. That means I am killing myself. (break) ...nity. is there. (break) ...policy. The policy is suicidal. That is the defect. So preaching means to remove this defect and utilize the policy for going ahead.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His question is whether is it due to our impurity that we cannot convince people to stop cutting their throats.

Prabhupāda: No, it is due to their impurity, they do not take. What you are saying, that is pure. But the difficulty is if you instruct a rascal, he becomes angry. The example is given that if you give milk and banana to the serpent, he increases his poison. Payaḥ-panaṁ bhujaṅganaṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. Therefore we have to select sometimes that our preaching is in the proper place. Because a snake-like person, they will not hear. But if you are a good charmer, you can charm the snake also. (laughter) That depends on your quality. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu did. He made these snakes, the tigers, the elephants, all dancing Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is possible by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Prabhupāda: After all, they are human being. Therefore we have collected some nice souls. (break) If you can go to the jungle, that is no hindrance, but let us take the opportunity of the civilized nations, preach them. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). They are leading the whole civilization. If they are convinced, it will be great benefit to the human race. (break) Also my Guru Mahārāja said that "You go to the western country." If he had said that "You go to the jungle," I would have gone. (break) ...preacher, either the jungle or the city is the same. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ na kutaścana bibhayati. One who is devotee of the Lord, he does not make any discrimination that "This is jungle and this is city." Svargāpavarga-narakeṣv api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ (SB 6.17.28). For them, everywhere, Kṛṣṇa's property. So where Kṛṣṇa asks him to go and serve, he will go. That's all. (break)

Jaga-jīvana: All classes of men should preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all he must know what to preach. If he does not know what to preach, what he will preach? You have got a preaching capacity, provided you learn the art of preaching. But everyone can preach. That's a fact.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: They can fall. Everyone can fall. (break)

Tripurāri: ...says that a sannyāsī should not take, be anxious for disciples but should only take those who are qualified. But sometimes, when there's no one qualified, he takes a risk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One who does not like to take the risk, they do not take the risk of preaching. But one who takes the risk, he is recognized by Kṛṣṇa immediately, "Oh, he is taking risk." But he must know where to take risk and where to act foolishly. Just like Nityānanda Prabhu took the risk of being injured. But He was certain that "I can deliver him." That is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You took a great risk also, Prabhupāda, by coming to us.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. I have already written that. I was thinking that "What shall I do here? I have come here. As soon as I shall impose these four principles they will say, 'Go home.' " But I took that risk. I never said anything palatable. Against their activities, "You don't do this, don't do this."

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. So long one is in the bodily concept of life, he is animal. Will these people accept this? Hm?

Jayatīrtha: They won't like to.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By our preaching we have to make them accept it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually that's a fact.

Sudāmā: We have to set an example for them to see.

Prabhupāda: What is the example?

Sudāmā: That this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, actually it does work, it does make us purified.

Prabhupāda: "No. It works with you. It doesn't work with me," he will say. You have to prove that they are animals. How you will prove it?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So your questions also is answered?

Anne Jackson: May I ask you a few questions? Could you please tell me a little bit about your life and how you knew that you were the spiritual master for the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?

Prabhupāda: My life is simple. I was householder. I have still my wife, my children, my grandsons. So my Guru Mahārāja ordered me that "Go and preach this cult in the western countries." So I left everything on the order of my Guru Mahārāja, and I am trying to execute the order. That's all.

Woman: And is this picture here the man...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is my Guru Mahārāja.

Woman: And he is no longer living.

Prabhupāda: No.

Woman: He spoke to you spiritually?

Prabhupāda: So this is my (indistinct). That's all.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā Caitanya philosophy is discussed.

Prof. Hopkins: So you would see no basic difference between Rāmānuja's position and...

Prabhupāda: They cannot be different because both of them are Vaiṣṇava. So this is the common point, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is preaching Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord. Rāmānujācārya was preaching Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord. So where is difference?

Prof. Hopkins: Well, I don't see a difference, but...

Prabhupāda: People know it. Things equal to the same thing are equal to one another.

Prof. Hopkins: What about certain other traditions; Ishnamadeva(?), Tukārāma, some of the poet saints of Maharastra. Where...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Tukārāma accepted Viṣṇu as the Supreme. He accepted the process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He accepted Caitanya Mahāprabhu as his guru so there is no difference between Tukārāma and Caitanya.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: They have got homosex? Dogs, hogs, I don't think.

Bahulāśva: Yeah, dogs, they say. We were preaching in this one convention that the dogs are also fighting. So therefore fighting and murder should be legal too because the dogs do that also.

Brahmānanda: Their argument was because the dogs have homosex, therefore the man should have...?

Bahulāśva: Should have homosex.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes, if an animal does it, then a human being should have the same right to do it also.

Jayatīrtha: Then they can pass stool in the street also?

Prabhupāda: Then what is the difference between man and animal? They do not find any difference?

Bahulāśva: No.

Prabhupāda: Then why they find difference in having soul?

Brahmānanda: Well, that is the Christian. But these modern psychologists, they don't even think that the human being has soul. That he's the same as the animal.

Bahulāśva: Actually psyche means soul.

Prabhupāda: Psyche means mental activities, thinking, feeling, and willing. (break) ...keeping building department different.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Bhaktadāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what effects are the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement having on the Christian-Judaic culture or the traditional religious culture?

Prabhupāda: We are speaking of religion. Religion means to know God and to love God. So does the Christian-Jewish religious system deny this? Then where is the difference? If Christian religion is meant for understanding God and try to love Him, the same thing we are preaching. The same thing, Jewish religion may be preaching. And where is that religion who denies the supremacy of God? What is that religion? Is there any religion in the world who denies the supremacy of God? We say, "Religion means the laws given by God." This is our definition. Therefore we must know what is God, what are His orders, and we must carry out the order and what is the end of carrying out such orders. If we try to understand these three or four things, then we are religious. If there is no attempt to understand what is God and what is His order and how we are acting, what is the goal of our life, then where is religion? That is not religion. Religion means these four principles: What is God, what we are, what is our relationship with God, and act accordingly and achieve the goal of life. This is religion. So any religious system which does not consider all these things, that is not religion. That has been explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kaitavaḥ. Kaitavaḥ means cheating. Religion means these things, wherever these things are there, that is religion, these enquiries. This is the subject matter of Vedānta-sūtra, where it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now the human life is meant for enquiring about the Supreme." So that is religion.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: Food. They get a permit. We were thinking to have a little car and sell Bengali sweets.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bengali sweet selling is not our business. We should not waste in that way. Our business is how to make him Kṛṣṇa conscious. If we find such opportunity by selling Bengali sweets, then we can sell. Otherwise it is useless. You should always remember this. We are not for selling Bengali sweets or any such thing unless it is connected with preaching our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You should remember it.

Citsukhānanda: Bengali sweets means Caitanya-caritāmṛta, different books of Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Our, what is his name?

Jayatīrtha: Citsukhānanda.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The boy who has taken sannyāsa, bookseller?

Devotees: Tripurāri Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Tripurāri. He does so. (chuckles) He will sell Bengali sweet, and he will say, "You will find the formula here," so that his main business is to sell the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Yadubara: So it will take a war to bring them to their senses a bit?

Prabhupāda: No, war is going on. But they are so senseless that they will not come to this, so rascal. Therefore they are described as mūḍha, all rascals.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very hard to preach to these fools, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These people are so stupid, it is very difficult to preach to them.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) No, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will be...

Dhīra Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are hearing from you and your books that we will die, and we must learn to face these problems as you mentioned, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), but still, even as your disciples, we are not so convinced.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Dhīra Kṛṣṇa: Because we've been brought up in a culture where we've been taught that we will never die. Particularly in America we never even see death here.

Prabhupāda: You think you will not die?

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Satsvarūpa: Why is it that people are so disinclined to listen to our authority—that they all take the scientists' authority—if it's just one authority or another?

Prabhupāda: Because they are nondevotee. That is the defect. More the nondevotee, more rascal mūḍha, duṣkṛtina, mūḍha... They cannot. Duṣkṛtino mūḍhaḥ, na prapadyante. Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna: "Knowledge has been taken away by māyā." (break) ...more you become atheist, the more you become blind. This is the point. (break) ...given this maxim in our Back to Godhead, "Where there is God there is no nescience." (break) ...preaching, back to God. "If you want to know things are there, then come back to God. Don't go this side; come this side." This side means he will be drowned. There are two sides. If somebody unnecessarily goes this side, he is death, and this side, he is saved. So one who is going this side we are asking back to Godhead, "Come in this side." If one goes this side, he will find the downtown, so many nice buildings, parks and everything. And the boy who goes this side, he will die.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: No, what we are doing... We are teaching people that "Don't bother about your economic condition of life. It will come automatically, what you are destined to obtain. You better utilize your energy how to get out of this condition of life, birth, death, old age and disease."

Mr. Surface: Isn't there room for both?

Prabhupāda: This is our philosophy. We are preaching that.

Mr. Surface: There would not be room for both?

Prabhupāda: Both means?

Mr. Surface: For the two.

Jayatīrtha: Both economic development and spiritual advancement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can... Actually there is no need of economic development. But if you think it is required, you can do that. But don't forget your real business. That is our proposal. We don't condemn, but economic development... Just like in America. When I did not come here... Of course, I know that everywhere everything is there. But I thought that "America is very rich, there is no poverty. There is no crime because they are rich." But when I came here I saw everything is the..., as in India so in America. There is crime; there is poverty; everything is there. At least, they are voluntarily accepting poverty, just like hippies. Most of them are coming from rich family, rich father. But he has volunteered to lie down on the street. Why? Why he doesn't care for economic development?

Morning Walk -- July 28, 1975, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Nonsense spirit. Rascal spirit.

Yadubara: But sometimes those people get killed when they're fighting the bull.

Prabhupāda: But your arrangement is to kill the bull. By chance or by God's desire you become killed.

Brahmānanda: It's a very popular sport.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are Christians.

Jayatīrtha: I think before the bullfighter goes to the ring, he first goes to the church and prays for blessings that he will be able to do very nicely.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Brahmānanda: And everyone gets drunk.

Prabhupāda: Very good preaching.

Yadubara: They also have those cock fights, you know, those chicken fights. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...begin war with their own children. This is also war. The child wants to come out, and they are fighting, advanced. (end)

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Oh, the rain is sufficient here? How many months it rain?

Nityānanda: There is no definite rainy season, it rains all year round.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's very good. Winter?

Nityānanda: No snow, it's always rain. We can grow vegetables in the summer, and different vegetables in the winter. So the cows they can stay outside all year. They don't have to stay in the barn, it's warm enough.

Prabhupāda: Very ideal spot. Develop it and show how we can live peacefully.

Nityānanda: This combination of a temple in the city where they can preach and bring people out to their farm is very good.

Prabhupāda: ...healthy place.

Nityānanda: So mostly gṛhasthas should stay on the farms, or brahmacārīs also?

Prabhupāda: No, brahmacārīs and sannyāsīs especially they should preach. And gṛhasthas may produce necessities. They also preach, preaching everyone. Especially for brahmacārī and sannyāsī. (end)

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Brahmānanda: They were selling one gulabjamin for seventy-five cents.

Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs) It may cost two cent. And you have got your sugar also. In this way organize. Avoid machine. Keep everyone employed as brāhmaṇa, as kṣatriya, as vaiśya. Nobody should sit down. Brāhmaṇas, they are writers, editors, lecturers, instructors, worshiping Deity, ideal character. They have no anxiety for food, for clothing. Others should supply them. They haven't got to work. Sannyāsī is always preaching, going outside. In this way keep everyone fully engaged. Then it will be ideal. Otherwise people will criticize that we are simply eating and sleeping, escaping, so many, so many. And actually that is the position. Unless one is fully engaged, oh, that is not good. That is tamo-guṇa. Tamo-guṇa, and rajo-guṇa very active, and sattva-guṇa, intellectual activity. Both of them, active, only tamo-guṇa, not active. (indistinct) Tamo-guṇa means sleeping and laziness. These are the symptoms of tamo-guṇa. Every saintly man can avoid these two things—laziness and sleeping. Of course, as much you require, sleeping allowed, not more than... And keep everyone active, man or woman-all. Then it will be ideal society.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Insur... So much! Everyone is being (indistinct). We do not decry, but we point out, "In this way our valuable time of life is being wasted." They say it is primitive life, but it is peaceful life. We want peaceful life and save time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not primitive. That is intelligent life.

Satsvarūpa: In order to evidence this, should we consider that we have to act as kṣatriyas or shall we just preach and try to get others...

Prabhupāda: No... Kṣatriyas, I have already explained who is brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya according to guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), as you work, as you are fit for. If you are fit to become brāhmaṇa, become brāhmaṇa. If you are fit to become kṣatriya, become kṣatriya. If you are fit to become śūdra, do it. Three... Then... And a man who cannot become fit for any other purpose, he is śūdra. That's all. "Help. Help the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and take your food and little pocket expense. That's all." Little pocket expenditure. But in our society we don't require, but even if it is required we can give.

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: My Godbrother says-Tīrtha Mahārāja—that American government has given me two crores of rupees. They are supposed to be spiritually advanced, and they are so rascal. And he is the head of Caitanya Matha. Kṛṣṇa said, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham: (BG 9.22) "I take the responsibility of his expenditure." Kṛṣṇa says, and they are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and they are thinking, "American government is doing, not Kṛṣṇa." Such fools and rascals, they are head of..., a spiritual head. Karmīs, jñānīs—everyone is envious of our... And they are trying to speculate how to admit: "Where he gets money? Where he gets money?"

Harikeśa: That man in San Francisco? The photographer? He was always trying to take pictures of your rings and always trying to take pictures of all the rich things on the altar. He was trying to make a story like that. They try to show that you are enjoying.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: They are trying to show that you are enjoying.

Brahmānanda: Even in Chicago the one, the woman who wrote the article, the 34-ounce? She said how "You looked at your gold watch." That was in the article, such an important thing.

Prabhupāda: Nityānanda Prabhu used to decorate Himself with very costly ornaments. Your teeth does not look very clean. Why?

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: If we preach, it will be all right. That is going on perpetually, darkness and light. If you bring light, darkness will go out, will be driven away.

kṛṣṇa sūrya sama māyā andhakāra

yāhan kṛṣṇa tāhan nāhi māyāra adhikāra

(CC Madhya 22.31)

Just like now there is sunshine. Although it is not very bright, but still the darkness of night has gone away. So bring in Kṛṣṇa consciousness; it will go away.

Indian Man (2): In Hardwar I have been recently, and I met one of my uncle's wife. My uncle's father was a very big mahanta. He was having quite in a big numbers, maybe in lakhs or you can say million, half million to million disciples. And what he was using in whole life, the disciple's money, for his own pleasure or his wife and children's. And at the end of it he took his sannyāsa. Only just few years after that, he died. And I found there in a lot of mahantas, they have a temples, they are using there lot of jewels, gold, and money, and they have a business, like that. And thousand of educated people visit, and they believe that this is all they are doing, show off, and there is no God. This is bewildering everybody's mind. Is there any... we have some system that we can conquer those people by means to... Those young generation of their children, they really looking for the truth. I met one mahanta, his son. He is very educated boy. He met impersonalist leader, and he misguided, and they are leading their life just like a, you can say, I don't want to use bad word, like pigs. They are eating and sleeping and mating, same as there are other people doing.

Prabhupāda: Well, this is want of knowledge, jñānam.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:

Mādhavānanda: Everyone thinks in terms of their own relative position.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Even an insignificant bird, because he knows swimming, he knows swimming, so he can challenge, and because you do not know swimming, you cannot say like that. Even insignificant bird, just see how nicely he is swimming. He knows the art. (break) ...one, cent percent of the modern people, they do not believe in God, and they do not know what is religion. That is the position. They think, "Religion is sentiment. Anyone can manufacture his own sentiment. There is no God." This is the position. So we are in fault. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is under this conception. Therefore we are at fault. We are preaching God consciousness.

Brahmānanda: Generally they make it difficult for us to preach.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Lalitā: Allow the camera.

Brahmānanda: The camera can be afterwards.

Lalitā: Oh, after.

Brahmānanda: Because Prabhupāda will be preaching, and he doesn't like photos taken while he is preaching. Also it may be possible to record the...

Prabhupāda: No, you can take. What is there? You can take photograph. You? Or you?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So these two persons will be...

Jayapatāka: Bhārgava is also there if they allow him after it's over to come...

Prabhupāda: After that, yes.

Brahmānanda: What about tape record? We could tape record the session also.

Lalitā: They don't want that.

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right.

Prabhupāda: "She approached you for meeting with me..., with you for a meeting"?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "For me."

Prabhupāda: "For me with you. And I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is called saṅkīrtana movement. Sometimes they call Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that in India everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also if some vigorous activity is done for awakening Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the Indian people under your leadership, it will be very, very effective."

Lalitā: "And for the development of this country I can bring foreign exchange for..."

Prabhupāda: No, why this?

Lalitā: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: "So we have already about six branches in India..."

Prabhupāda: Read it. Read it, what I have said.

Brahmānanda: "Your Excellency Śrīmatī Indira Devi Gandhi. When I was in Toronto, Canada, Śrīmatī Lalitā Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation that she approached you for a meeting for you and myself. And I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's instructions in the Bhagavad-gītā. Actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is called the saṅkīrtana movement and sometimes called the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that in India everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world."

Prabhupāda: Everyone in India.

Brahmānanda: "In India everyone should become a guru."

Prabhupāda: No, no. "Everyone should become a guru."

Prabhupāda: No, no. "Everyone should become a guru."

Brahmānanda: "His mission is that everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are doing this very faithfully and it is becoming effective. I think in India also if some vigorous activity is done for awakening the Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the people under your leadership, it will be very effective. So we have already eight branches in India, and all development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government. So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection. I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages, such as Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam..."

Prabhupāda: "Four hundred pages each."

Brahmānanda: "I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages each, such as Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in foreign countries, Europe and America. By sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange."

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: "When I was in Toronto, Canada, Śrīmatī Lalitā Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation that she approached you for a meeting with me and you, and I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's instructions in Bhagavad-gītā. Actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is called the saṅkīrtana movement and sometimes called the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also, if some vigorous activity is done for awakening the Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the people under your leadership, it will be very effective. So we have already eight branches in India, and all development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government. So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection. I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages each, such as Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in foreign countries such as Europe and America. By the sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange." "Yours sincerely?"

Prabhupāda: "Yours sincerely" all right, or "Your well-wisher"?

Lalitā: "Well-wisher."

Prabhupāda: "Your well-wisher." (Bengali) Word is already there. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya, tinete karīyā aikya. (Bengali) So immediately type it and give it to her.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, they deny. Therefore we call them atheist. But these Māyāvādī, they take the shelter of Vedas and they preach the same philosophy. "Yes, brahman-nirakara." (Hindi) ...don't believe in God... (Hindi) For the time being, Śaṅkarācārya might have said something like that to turn the Buddhists again to Vedas, but that is temporary. But they have taken it all true. (Hindi) ...eighty-five years they are working. They have no position. (Hindi) What is that? TM?

Brahmānanda: TM, Transcendental Meditation.

Prabhupāda: And what is the items they say?

Brahmānanda: No philosophy, no belief, no restrictions.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Just see. He advertises. Mahesh Yogi.

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: Almost 90% of all the people we preach to, they are all influenced by Māyāvādī philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I was talking. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...say that the egg is from God, and the apple is from God.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you eat apple? (laughter)

Akṣayānanda: They are also envious of you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I know that. Do they say like that?

Akṣayānanda: Not directly. But when we explain how many things, what is being done and we show photographs, how people have become devotees, they will say, "Yes, but have you heard of Swami so and so?" And we'll say, "Yes, we have heard of him. But our Guru Mahārāja has got thousands of devotees all over the world." "Yes, he has also got thousands of devotees." They'll minimize, even though it's there in black and white.

Prabhupāda: But where they are?

Brahmānanda: Yeah. Where are those thousands of disciples of these other swamis?

Prabhupāda: "Here we are, but where are the swami's disciples?" Ask them.

Morning Walk -- August 28, 1975, Vrndavana:

Member: If you please, I have no objections.

Prabhupāda: No. We want many educated men to understand this philosophy and preach. People are... Whole world, they are in ignorance—the value of life. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). They are accepting this body as self. The whole trouble is there. So-called scientist, philosopher—everyone is thinking, "I am this body," and therefore there is so much trouble. They do not know what he is and what is his goal of life, how life should be molded. No knowledge. Therefore vigorous preaching is required. Our Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that, that all people are suffering. There is little knowledge in India. So anyone who has taken his birth in India, he should make his life perfect by studying this Vedic literature and then spread the knowledge all over the world because they are in ignorance. Here also now they are ignorant. They do not know what is the value of life, thinking like cats and dogs. What is your idea about the value of life?

Member: Unless it is very towards God, it is useless.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...sometimes they do not. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...cows are all becoming devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is preaching. (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...not like that. On the head. The Sarasvatī's mandir will be... For the last three years I am seeing. (break)...Maṭha commander. Hm?

Brahmānanda: Who is the temple commander?

Akṣayānanda: Hari-śauri. His name is Hari-śauri.

Prabhupāda: He is sleeping? He does not see?

Akṣayānanda: Yes. I am considering to become the temple commander myself, because it's not the first time this has happened. So many things have gone wrong. Too many. So I think I will do it myself.

Prabhupāda: Then? You will be everything.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Akṣayānanda: "To be trained in Sanskrit and philosophy. Then they will be selected by Cinmayananda for preaching all over the world. And if they qualify, then all their expenses and food and clothing will be supplied by the Cinmayananda Mission." Advertisement.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This appeared in Times of India, it's only in Bombay. It also appeared in Times of India in (indistinct). It was an ad just like a professional company's ad.

Prabhupāda: Nobody will be attracted.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are trying to attract people that they'll get a chance to go abroad.

Prabhupāda: That may be allurement.

Brahmānanda: Actually by placing such an ad, then all the wealthy people read the ad in the newspaper, and they think, "Oh, they are doing such nice work." So then they go and collect, and they say, "Oh, you see? We are placing the ads." So on the basis of the ad alone.

Akṣayānanda: That means there is no work.

Prabhupāda: But no educated man, at least in India, is interested any more with philosophy and preaching. No Indian. (Aside) Jaya. (break)

Akṣayānanda: ...preach more, then that would help? Because he was previously a principal of a school.

Prabhupāda: No, how he is preaching? Have you heard? No, you cannot understand in Hindi.

Prabhupāda: Anyone?

Dhanañjaya: We've been told he preaches nicely.

Prabhupāda: I have told him that "You simply read my books and reproduce it. That's all. That will be preaching."

Akṣayānanda: At least when he speaks to me in English, it's always very nice.

Brahmānanda: He can memorize Prabhupāda's books and then just speak it.

Prabhupāda: That is preaching. Our process is anuśṛṇuyāt. We hear from the superior and reproduce it. That is śravaṇaṁ-kīrtanam. Then perfect. If I add something, my own imagination, then it will spoil. No addition-alteration; as it is. As it is you hear from your spiritual master, reproduce. That's all. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). This 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa is coming by paramparā, so you reproduce. That's all. Even a child can reproduce what he has heard from his father. It is not at all difficult. (break) ...cheap rate.

Morning Walk -- September 9, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Nirnayika just wanted to use their scale, and they would try and cheat him. They would ask him for money just to let us use their scale to weigh the vegetables we buy. So I intervened one day, and then he got so angry that he abused Kṛṣṇa also. These are such big demons, these people. They live in Vṛndāvana but...

Prabhupāda: So give them prasāda; they will be all right. Yes. Give them prasāda.

Harikeśa: The perfect solution.

Brahmānanda: We were also demons before we took prasāda. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Our preaching means to turn demons into devotees. That is our preaching. If you keep them demon, then your preaching is lacking. Give them prasādam today and tell them, "Whenever you come, take prasāda." (end)

Indian man (2): And Śiva always worshiped Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is another thing. They, "If you believe that Lord Śiva is the Supreme, why don't you go and establish? Why you are sitting here and declaring jagad-guru?" Their purpose was that "Either you worship Śiva or Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter, but if you would have done something that would have spread the Hindu conception of... But you are not doing there anything. Why do you call yourself jagad-guru?" (Hindi) "A jackal is the king in the forest." And they do not go outside. Even Gaṅgeśvarānanda went; he came back disappointed. What they will do? Cinmayananda goes so many times. What does he do? (Hindi) (break) He is so big. What does he have? What he has done? This thing going on. Phalena paricīyate. One has to be studied by the result, not by talking. It is not that Caitanya Mahāprabhu entrusted the subject of preaching only unto me. Why they do not go, the gosvāmīs, swamis, big, big sannyāsīs, and stalwart? Why they are rotting within this area?

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Dhṛṣṭaketu: So the Māyāvādīs' philosophy is actually the supreme illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has forbidden. Māyāvādī-bhāṣya sunile haya sarva nasa (CC Madhya 6.169). One is finished if he follows the Māyāvāda philosophy. He is doomed. He will never be able to accept the real philosophy. He will be absorbed in that false philosophy. This is Māyāvādī's position. Māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhī. They are aparādhī, offender. Therefore they shall remain perpetually in ignorance and think himself, "I am God." This is Māyāvādī's position. Vivekānanda preached openly that "Why you are thinking that you are sinful? You are God." He preached like that.

Brahmānanda: The Christians, they have a concept of sin. So when Vivekānanda went to America he was telling them, "No, you forget this concept. Whatever you do, it's all right because you are God." They were surprised.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Harikeśa: This Māyāvādī philosophy, is this...?

Prabhupāda: They are atheist. They are first-class atheist, more than the Buddhist. Veda na maniya bauddha haila nāstika. The Buddhists, they did not accept Vedic authorities; therefore they are considered as nāstika. But vedāśraya nāstikya vada. These rascals, they accept Vedas and preaches atheism. So they are more dangerous than the Buddhists. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bauddha ke adhika: "They are more dangerous than the Buddhists." The Buddhists, although they are supposed to be atheists, they worship the Deity Lord Buddha. But they say it is māyā. And more advanced than these atheists.

Brahmānanda: The Māyāvādīs.

Prabhupāda: More... Not advanced. More degraded. These atheists, they have been taught to worship the form of Lord Buddha, and Buddha is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, so one day they will be delivered. But these rascals will never be delivered.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: It is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is as good as Kṛṣṇa. It is not worshiping the stone. Huh?

Indian man (2): Worship, who are worshiping, it never comes to their mind that it is a stone.

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore the... That is the qualification. (break) ...qualified, you will see it is spiritual.

Vāsughoṣa: There are some religions that... Especially the one I am born in, they were especially preaching, you know, that "You should never see a graven image of God."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Vāsughoṣa: "You should never see a graven image of God."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required, because you are not competent to see God everywhere.

Vāsughoṣa: No, but they...

Brahmānanda: They prohibit.

Vāsughoṣa: They prohibit the worship of this vigraha. They say that "God cannot be made into a graven image."

Brahmānanda: They say it is blasphemy.

Prabhupāda: No. Yes, we also say. Although everything is expansion of the energy of Kṛṣṇa, not that everything is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between Māyāvāda philosophy and Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Vaiṣṇava philosophy takes everything as expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Parāsya brāhmaṇa śaktiḥ. (Aside:) Jaya. Sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Everything is expansion of the energy of the Supreme Brahman. Kṛṣṇa confirms it, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Without Kṛṣṇa, there is no existence. But that does not mean anything existentional is Kṛṣṇa. That is Māyāvāda philosophy.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Zero is controlling both sides, g and d. Just like if you multiply something by zero, what it becomes?

Brahmānanda: Zero.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Śūnyavādī.

Vāsughoṣa: (break) ...people are following very strictly, how can we preach to them? Some of those people who are following these religions very strictly, how do we preach to them, those people?

Prabhupāda: Ask them, "What do you mean by religion?"

Vāsughoṣa: Well, they will say what is in their śāstra, their Bible.

Prabhupāda: Let them say what is there. Then you can talk with them.

Morning Walk -- September 18, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Your signboard is "five." Why you make 5:15? Everything should be on routine, strictly.

Dhanañjaya: But the main gates are open to the public at four o'clock.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. They can wait on the corridor. I wanted Praṇava to speak, but he is not interested. What I can do? I told you that "You read books and speak. Try to preach." Yes. Did I not say? Did I not say to you that you and Dikṣita, "Study together and..."

Praṇava (an older Indian man): We started immediately on the very same day. Next day I was asked to leave, so I have left.

Prabhupāda: You have left forever.

Praṇava: No. I can never leave for...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then why don't you do that business? In the evening, four o'clock, you can speak. The whole day you can read and reproduce in the four o'clock. Then you understand what is the philosophy. If you simply reproduce what is written there in the book you become preacher. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). We haven't got to manufacture anything.

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). We have to create our eyes to see. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (7): (break) ...unless there is a good center. Mr. Marya said that you are going to have one here.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Indian man (8): If... We'll get continuous advantage of your preaching, sir.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (loud car noise)

Indian man (7): And I think that it is badly needed.

Indian man (8): (break) That gentleman whispered in my ear, that "I am mūḍha" he said. And I said, "Yes, you are a mūḍha." (laughter)

Prabhupāda: He confirmed it. That he is.

Indian man (8): But he said that "I am a rākṣasa, maybe. Of course, you are like that."

Prabhupāda: Then anyone. Why he is alone? Anyone.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: So where is your freedom? First of all get out of these things; then question of freedom. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is your knowledge, that "Where is my freedom? If I am under the rules and regulation of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, then where is my freedom?" (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Simply rubber-stamped freedom will help me? Suppose I was dependent on British rule, and now I have become free. So will this help me to get freedom from janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi? Then where is my freedom? What are major questions, they have set aside. "Don't discuss all these things, and bother your head with trifle things." And our philosophy is that "Don't bother with these trifle things. Just seriously think of the major problems." This is our philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Teṣām ahaṁ samuddhartā mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt (BG 12.7). Samuddahartā, just to deliver them from this ocean of mṛtyu-saṁsāra. That is not care. Real freedom is given by him—that you don't care. (break) ...will be given by Kṛṣṇa. This is no freedom. Here the so-called freedom-giver, he has no freedom. And what he will give, freedom? Gandhiji preached so much about nonviolence, and nonviolence said, "All right, you have no freedom from nonviolence. You die." (Hindi) (break) ...is there, there is no question of freedom. (end)

Dr. Patel: Those thirty qualifications do come naturally, as you say, but they come slowly. But (Hindi) we must teach them this in the kṛṣṇa-bhakti, the qualities of a real sādhu.

Prabhupāda: If you make a condition that "First of all you become qualified; then you preach," that will never come. Rūpa Gosvāmī therefore recommends, yena tena prakāreṇa mana kṛṣṇe niveśayet: "Somehow or other bring him to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Then other... Sarve vidhi-niṣedhāḥ. Vidhi-niṣedhāḥ. Sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. Automatically they'll come as servant. First of all let their mind be fixed up on Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dr. Patel: But the present difficulties are because they don't know the vidhi-niṣedhas.

Prabhupāda: So how they can know?

Dr. Patel: That is the difficulty.

Prabhupāda: How they can know?

Dr. Patel: That is the difficulty.

Prabhupāda: So we... we are bringing them from which status? Yes. You cannot expect that they will be perfect all of a sudden, overnight. It is not possible. But their mind being fixed up on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the first qualification. They do not know anything beyond Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Dr. Patel: In Punjab there was lot of Muslim hierarchy, and that is what they wanted, that... Arya-samājīs.

Prabhupāda: But we are not against any "ism," either Muslimism or Christianism. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we never preach against anyone.

Dr. Patel: It was a socio-economic problem or socio-political, not a religious problem.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, but we never criticize anyone. When the Christians come forward—"Whether our Christian religion can also give the same meaning"—"Yes, why not?" Yes.

Dr. Patel: It has the same bhakti.

Prabhupāda: I never said...

Dr. Patel:ut I think the Christianity is nothing but bhāgavata-dharma. It has been preached in a different way.

Prabhupāda: They inquire, "What is your opinion of Jesus Christ?" And "He is our guru."

Prabhupāda: We do not...

Dr. Patel: The Christians don't know that we take it like that.

Prabhupāda: Even if we say "Mohammed," why not? Anyone who has preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness, maybe little differently according to time, circumstances, but anyone who has tried to preach the God consciousness, he is guru. Yei kṛṣṇa tattva vettā, sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. Anyone who preaches about the Supreme Lord, he is guru. Maybe in a different way, according to time, circumstances. The Mohammed also said Allah akbar.

Dr. Patel: Only the difference is that Mohammed is trying to worship nirañjana, nirākāra, and we...

Prabhupāda: No, no, not nirākāra. That is not...

Dr. Patel: Even Christianity considers His ākāra—"God has form."

Prabhupāda: No, Mohammed also has got... Caitanya Mahāprabhu argued in Koran. He proved there is kṛṣṇa-bhakti. He proved with the Pathans. Yes.

Dr. Patel: Even Christianity considers His ākāra—"God has form."

Prabhupāda: No, Mohammed also has got... Caitanya Mahāprabhu argued in Koran. He proved there is kṛṣṇa-bhakti. He proved with the Pathans. Yes.

Dr. Patel: Otherwise the Christianity is just our way, I mean, absolutely Vaisnavism. It has been wrongly preached and wrongly initiated in India. That is why it has fallen to disrepute. Otherwise Christianity is just Vaiṣṇava-dharma. Nothing else, to my mind, the way I have studied, I mean the New Testament and all the Christian, all the things. Now, the sermon of Christ is nothing but the preaching of Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: I never criticized. I simply said that positive side, God consciousness.

Dr. Patel: Christ himself was drunk with God consciousness totally.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Christ himself was drunk with God consciousness in toto, absolute.... There cannot be a higher bhakta than that. It is said that Jesus Christ learned all these things in India. It might be a fact?

Passerby: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: And he daily bhakta. (?) He came for pūjā, for guru. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...devatā bhaktāḥ, te 'pi mām eva kaunteya yajanty avidhi-purvakam. They give examples, as the gopīs worshiped Kātyāyanī. But that is not avidhi. They went to Kātyāyanī for getting the favor of Kṛṣṇa. They prayed to mother Kātyāyanī, "Please be favorable to us so that Kṛṣṇa may be pleased upon us." Others go to beg from Kātyāyanī some material benefits, but the gopīs, they did not ask for any material benefit. And therefore that is vidhi.

Dr. Patel: In politics you have got to be body conscious. Politics or war is the same thing, after all. Your sphere is much different, sir, than those. And we cannot compare them with you or you with them. You are a, I mean, out and out a bhakta and a saint. He was a politician.

Prabhupāda: No. I am talking about the Bhagavad-gītā,...

Dr. Patel: All right, Bhagavad-gītā. Whatever little we understand, we preach.

Prabhupāda: ...that the first principle of Bhagavad-gītā is to understand that "I am not this body."

Dr. Patel: Gandhiji's program was to emancipate the poor, downtrodden people of India in whatever way... In that way, in which there is no implication of falsehood.

Prabhupāda: No, it may not be falsehood, but...

Dr. Patel: It will be by the right way.

Prabhupāda: This may not be the right way.

Dr. Patel: May not be or wrong way, we do not know. But then he did. According to him, he brought and he tried, and he struggled...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we simply study that the Bhagavad-gītā begins with this education, that "You are not this body." Yes. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, dehi. It has nothing to do with this kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. This is to be understood. The whole world requires to understand this verse; otherwise they remain go-khara.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Dr. Patel: These type of students were eternally there with all the religious teaching, past and present. But unfortunately...

Prabhupāda: So those who were there, they understood. They...

Dr. Patel: Unfortunate for the world it is not going to do that.

Prabhupāda: No, there was no preaching. That's it. Now the preaching is going on. They are understanding. Nobody preached this. If you... Just like a big building. If the foundation is wrong, then it will not stay.

Dr. Patel: This Bhagavad-gītā has got everything, all aspects of life.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the beginning of teaching, that "You are not this body." If you remain in the false understanding that "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," there is no spiritual education. Mohita. That is called mohita. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair, mohitaṁ nābhijānāti. He remains in ignorance. (aside:) (Hindi) Jaya.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Brahmānanda: What is that?

Guest (2): Have you had a significant impact on the American society? The values you preach, have they influenced Americans to a certain degree?

Brahmānanda: Oh, yes. You can go in America, any country, any city, and everyone will know Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (2): That's not what I mean. What I mean is have Americans started to be less violent, for instance, or have they started to be less egotistical or...

Brahmānanda: Well, not unless they follow our movement. But those who have followed our movement... Recently there was one study that was published by a very eminent sociologist in America from the University of California, the (sic:) Union Theological Center, and he stated in that book that the members of this movement, formerly they were drug-addicted hippies, and now they have become servants of Kṛṣṇa and humanity, loving servants. So he has given proof through intensive interviews that one who follows and joins this movement, dramatically his life becomes changed.

Prabhupāda: Perfect. He is a big professor, and his books are being sold in higher circles. Professor Judah. And he has studied this movement for five years. And... You have got that book?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: And keep the head light instead of unnecessarily burdened. In the Kali-yuga there is a symptom. It is stated in the... Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam: "In the Kali-yuga people will think by keeping long hairs he has become beautiful." This is the mentality of this age. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. You can write this. Lāvaṇyam means luster, and keśa-dhāraṇam means keeping hair.

Guest (3): By preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness would you condemn other people's beliefs?

Prabhupāda: We must condemn anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. We say... I don't condemn; Kṛṣṇa condemns.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Duṣkṛtinaḥ means sinful; and mūḍhāḥ means rascals, asses; and narādhamāḥ means lowest of the mankind; and māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ means their knowledge has been taken by māyā; and āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ means atheist class. So this class of men will never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So if one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, we immediately take them either of these: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. This is our stand.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Indian culture is given (Hindi), that to allow them to worship the demigods means at least to accept the authority, and then they gradually come to the supreme authority. Just like for the common man, to give respect to the police constable means giving respect to the government. But the police constable is not the president of the government. So one should know who is the president. That is advancement. If you remain, simply offering respect to the constable, that is not advancement.

Guest (4): Indian philosophy has always taught that light comes from many lamps. But you are preaching that...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Brahmānanda: He says Indian culture has always taught that light comes from many lamps.

Guest (4): But you are preaching... (loud static)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the supreme light. There are degrees of light. There is sunlight, and there is this light. You cannot compare this light with sun. (laughter) Light are so many, but that does not mean the sunlight and this light is the same.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Cyavana: This is the way to go up.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...this is a fact, that our Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the topmost yoga, and preach it. This is a fact. Except we, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nobody knows anything—all mūḍhas. Any association, any religion—all mūḍhas. But you must prove yourself. Otherwise it will be bigotry. If you simply say that "We are only first class" without any knowledge... You have to defend yourself. There will be so many opposing elements. Then you become first class. Your position is first class, but you have to maintain it. Otherwise, they will say "religious fanatics." Any opposition party, you have to meet. That is required.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to sit for some time here, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) (Devotees have been teasing Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa in background regarding his suggestion) He said, "Don't bring milk when water is required." I was just asking, you know.

Harikeśa: Don't bring milk when water is required. You have given the example.

Prabhupāda: Don't bring milk?

Devotees: When water is required.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break)

Devotee 2: ...Vyāsadeva and Nara-Nārāyaṇa, they are still in the Himalayas meditating, why don't they come and join our parties and help this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by their...?

Prabhupāda: They are giving you chance to preach. They have given their books. Is it not sufficient?

Devotee 2: Yes, it's great help. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...bones or what?

Cyavana: Yes. It's coral. It's from coral.

Prabhupāda: An animal.

Cyavana: It's called an exoskeleton because it's on the outside instead of the inside. We have a skeleton inside the skin, but their skeleton is on the outside of the skin, and the flesh is within.

Prabhupāda: So they trim the coconuts?

Cyavana: They pull them down, yes.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that bring them, let them chant and dance and take prasādam. That, everyone will hear, agree.

Harikeśa: One who does that, he is preaching? One who arranges for chanting and dancing and taking prasādam, that is as good as preaching?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śravaṇam, kīrtanam, arcanam—anything.

Harikeśa: These festival programs are very important.

Prabhupāda: (pause) You have to spend or waste gallons of blood before you can convert a person to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is so difficult task.

Cyavana: You have to spend?

Prabhupāda: Gallons of blood, waste.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: He is going to die for Kṛṣṇa, and therefore he is recognized. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). You become immediately very dear to Kṛṣṇa. Your business is how to become very intimate to Kṛṣṇa. That will be served by preaching.

Cyavana: Would you like to hear this verse?

na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu

kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ

bhavitā na ca me tasmād

anyaḥ priyataro bhuvi

(BG 18.69)

"There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he, nor will there ever be one more dear."

Prabhupāda: Who? Ya idaṁ para...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to me."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: No purport?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They have mentioned that there is no purport for this verse.

Prabhupāda: It is already explained. Anyone who is preaching...

Harikeśa: That verse is self-effulgent.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Harikeśa: You are the purport.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Simply people are trying to find out ways that they don't have to surrender to perfect knowledge. They can go on enjoying in the material world.

Prabhupāda: Wanted... (indistinct) A little... (indistinct)

Harikeśa: I think you should preach every breakfast. Your appetite is very good.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: Every breakfast you should preach. Then your appetite will be very good.

Prabhupāda: No, appetite or no appetite, I preach. (laughter) I do not preach for increasing appetite.

Devotee 2: Do you want this?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. What is that?

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why is it, Prabhupāda, that in earlier parts of the Kali-yuga no one like yourself came throughout the rest of the world and preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Preached? Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached. His descendant preached. Why do you say no one preached?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But throughout the rest of the world, places like Japan and Australia...

Prabhupāda: Your calculation of the world. If it is preached anywhere, that is preached on the world. It was not spread, you can say, but it was preached.

Cyavana: The seed was planted.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: They were saving it for you.

Prabhupāda: For you also.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think they had their hands full with India. They had their hands full with India, all of the preachers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What they are collecting?

Harikeśa: Crabs, I think. Crabs.

Indian man (4): Swamijī? It is prohibited to consume, consume flesh, meat. It's because there is soul in the body and if we kill it, therefore we are doing a sin. I think it's because that we can't consume meat according to the Vedic literature. But what about plants, Swamijī?

Prabhupāda: Plants also, you... They are also killed. They are also killed. But this is... Plants are killed by the order of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you are not responsible.

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Lord Rāmacandra worshiped His devotees. Just like sometimes Kṛṣṇa worships Rādhārāṇī and touched His feet..., Her feet. That does not mean that Kṛṣṇa... Just like Kṛṣṇa was tolerating ear pulling by Mother Yaśodā. That does not mean that Mother Yaśodā is the Supreme. Hm? Kṛṣṇa was carrying the wooden shoes of Nanda Mahārāja. So that does not mean Nanda Mahārāja is greater than Kṛṣṇa. It is Kṛṣṇa's pleasure. Just like sometimes a father takes the son on the shoulder, carries. Does it mean the father is inferior than the son? So this is third-class man's conclusion. They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Rāma. Kṛṣṇa says that aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). So He is the origin of Lord Śiva. So how Śiva can be the Supreme? We have to consult śāstra. Kṛṣṇa does not say that Śiva is Supreme. So if a third-class man says Śiva is Supreme, we have to accept it? We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that is Supreme, not a third-class man's version. Is it clear? Yes. We should not take a third-class, fourth-class man's version. We should take from the śāstra.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: No, where you get this idea? You are manufacturing, but you are rascal, so your manufacturing has no value. First of all prove that without mouth one can speak. Where is that idea? Where you get this idea?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even when we preach to these Christians... There's one passage in the Bible that says that "Man is created in the image of God." So we show them that "This is God, Kṛṣṇa," and they say, "No, no, no, no, no, can't be." But still, the image is there, that man has an image, a likeness, to God. He has two arms. He has two eyes. But still, they can't accept if we say that Kṛṣṇa is God.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. They'll...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Envious.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is rascaldom. They'll...

Harikeśa: They say He must be a very old man. He must be very old with a big, long beard.

Prabhupāda: So that we shall consider later on. He is a man like. First of all accept that. Then whether He is old or young, we shall consider later on. First of all accept that either old or young, He is a man like, shape, form. Then we shall talk other things. Then what is the use of talking with them, with a rascal? That is the point. There is no use, talking with these rascals. Waste of time.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But there's practically no one to preach to if we don't preach to them.

Prabhupāda: They are rascals. What is the use? That is advised, prema-maitri kṛpopekṣā, four things. Preacher—there are four things for him. One thing is he should love God. He should make friendship with devotees. He should preach amongst the innocent, and he should kick on the face of the atheist. Upekṣā. "Hut! (laughter) I don't like you." That's all, no business with him. This is preacher. Preacher should love God; preacher should make friendship with devotees; preacher will preach amongst the innocent, poor; and those who are atheist, nonbeliever, kick on his face. Don't care for him. "Go away. Get out." That's all. That much mercy upon them. "Get out, rascal." But sometimes we take the risk of talking with these rascals also. That is our mercy. But according to śāstra, they are to be kicked out. They are not to be taken care of because it is waste of time.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: But so far we are concerned, that is the basic principle of our further investigation in religion.

Professor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. So the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā is the teaching of transmigration of the soul. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So that is our first concern, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. This body will not exist, and we have to accept another body. Kṛṣṇa says, dehāntara-prāptiḥ, "another body." Now, there are 8,400,000 different types of body. Which body I am going to accept, there is no education. So I am kept in darkness. So what is the value of my education?

Professor: You mean your future?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I do not know what is my future. Then what is my education?

Professor: Yes. Yes. Of course, that is one standpoint, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: No, that is the main standpoint. I am taking education in the university. I do not know what is my future. Then where is the education? I am in darkness.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They've taken your books in the past. (break) ...preaching, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we don't know whether to be diplomatic towards these other so-called religious movements or whether to simply expose the philosophy which they are putting forward.

Prabhupāda: No. You should be diplomatic. You should give positive information of our philosophy. Where need be, absolutely necessary, you can criticize others. (break) ...preaching is successful.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Only because you've sent us here. Otherwise we would have never come to this place in a million years. I think in America the devotees think that Africa is simply a bunch of jungles. No one wants to come here to preach.

Prabhupāda: (break)...very broad. (break) ...ask him about swimming, why they cannot swim all through like the fish. They are defeated.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Indian man: Well, Swamijī, if you want, you can answer this or not. Have you been to other planets?

Prabhupāda: I am on all planets. When I come to other country I see the same tree, the same road and the same sand. So what is the difference? I don't find any difference between India and this South Africa because the same trees are there, same grass is there, the same road is there, the same... So similarly, in every planet, without going we can understand, if we are sane men. We come here not to see how is South Africa. We have come here to preach Kṛṣṇa conscious.... That is our business. We don't come as a tourist to see how South Africa is. What South Africa? The same building, same road, same—everything same. What to see here? Especially, they are also eating, sleeping and struggling. That's all.

Indian man: That's a stink bug there.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Is there any difference between Los Angeles, America or San Francisco and this city? Is there any difference?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: The same thing. Is there any place where people do not die? Then?

Indian man: Besides maybe Kṛṣṇaloka also.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Within this material.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: All right, India. Then?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then the point is that they criticize that how we can preach such a civilization to the Western countries if even it's not working in India today. Although theoretically it's perfect, practically it's not working.

Prabhupāda: No. Practically, because you have preached your culture in India; therefore they have lost their own culture. The Western, the Britishers were for two hundred years and they preached. Their policy was to kill the Indian culture. Because that report of Lord McCauley, after studying Indian situation, the report was to the Parliament that "If you keep India as Indian, then you will not be able to rule over them," so therefore there was regular policy to kill Indian civilization. And because they were on the governing power, they could do it. Therefore India lost its own culture and victimized by the Western culture. This is the position. Just they are learning how to eat meat, how to drink wine, how to dress them with coat and pant, how to go to the hotel, illicit sex—these things are…

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But this propaganda is going on even here, that anything which is Indian is inferior, and anything which is European is good.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the propaganda always. That is going on. That I already explained, that this was the propaganda of the Britishers, "Anything Indian is bad." You see, they wanted to stop our Ratha-yātrā in London as soon as they saw that it is becoming popular. Even in India the government doesn’t want that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should go ahead. It is the demonic principle—Kṛṣṇa should be cut down. That is the way of demonic civilization. Stop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now we are preaching, "No illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating." Do you think people like it?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Car ride from Durban to Johannesburg -- October 13, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Live separately. But usually every Indian or European has one or two Africans living behind the house as servants, so there are many living in the cities. We have one African girl in Johannesburg. She works at the temple. We've called her Pārijāta. We have one African girl because when we first came there were only a few of us and we didn't want to take up time to clean up the temple for our preaching work. So she has to get up very early in the morning.

Prabhupāda: She was paid for that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it facilitated our preaching work. At first, I was against the idea, but I found it was good.

Prabhupāda: No, it was not good to give, keep young unmarried girl.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: She is married with children. She is older. Her husband was murdered.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, in Johannesburg. We didn't pick any young African girl, older lady and very respectful, honest. She's about fifty years old.

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Reporter: Your Grace, can I start by asking you what do you think of South Africa?

Prabhupāda: That you can reply. Just preach this cult, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I was expected since a long time. So I could not come here due to my other engagements.

Reporter: Yes. What are your views of the country? What do you think of it?

Prabhupāda: Every country is all right. I don't find any fault. But only difficulty is that all over the world the civilization is being misdirected.

Reporter: Misguided.

Prabhupāda: Misdirected. They are not taking importance of the right thing. Just like we are in this body. Now, when the body is dead, we cry that "My father is gone away. My son is gone away." But if I reply that "Your father is lying on the bed. Why you're crying that your father has gone away?" what will be the reply? The father whom the son has seen since his birth, that body in the coat and pant, so that coat-pant and body is there on the bed, and why the son is crying, "My father has gone away"? What is the reply? What should be the reply?

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Reporter: Your Grace, a great many of South Africa's church leaders from some of the big churches are fearful that South Africa is going to find itself in a situation, or find... What message would you give this country in terms of avoiding any...

Prabhupāda: No, I am going to every country because everywhere the same mistake is going on, bodily concept of life. So I am trying to bring them to the real life and then make their plan. They will be happy. It is not for South Africa. For any Africa, or any country, South America or South India or anywhere. The problem is the same. Everywhere the same conception: "I am South African." "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am this." "I am that." So all these things are on the bodily concept of life. Nobody says, "No, I am not this body. I am different from body." Nobody says. We are simply preaching that "You are not this body. You are different from this..." That is our unique situation. Perhaps throughout the whole world we are trying to preach that "You are not this body. You are different from body." And we have not manufactured this idea.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: (break) You have done good because you are waiting for somebody's decision. So the decision-maker can change. Otherwise so many people are working so hard day and night; he is not getting even sufficient food. And another man, without working, he is getting so much money. How it is possible? Hm? So God is not an instrument of your whims. He is fully independent. That is God. Agatan gatan patiyase.(?) By His different energy He can..., does something which is impossible to be done. Take for example myself. I went to United States, unknown country, without any friend, without any hope, simply on theory (chuckles) that "I shall go and preach there," and with this expectation also, that "As soon as I shall ask them to give up all these habits, they will ask me to go away." (laughs) So in the face of so many odds and uncertainty, I went there, simply depending on my spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, with this hope only, that "If they desire, everything can be done. But otherwise there is no hope. I am going there, hopeless, just to make an experiment. My other Godbrothers, they failed. All right, Guru Mahārāja asked me. In the beginning I did not do. Let me do it in this old age." So it became surprisingly success. Business started with forty rupees, and now we have got four crores. Where is that business in the material world, that a man started business with forty rupees and he has got four crores within ten years? Not only money, but also fame, respect. What do these kings and president or minister get respect?

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Capacity of the container. This is described in the Bhāgavata and the Caitanya-caritāmṛta also. Kṛṣṇa śakti vina nahe kṛṣṇa nāme pracāra: "Without Kṛṣṇa's special power of attorney, nobody can preach His name." Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So these rascals, Godbrothers, they are envious that... What he has written? Bon Mahārāja. Just see what kind of men they are. They are not even ordinary human being. They are envious of me, and what to speak of make a judgment by estimation? They're envious. Enviousness is immediately disqualification of Vaiṣṇava, immediate. He is not a human being. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ (SB 1.1.2). This Bhāgavatam is meant for the person who is completely not envious. That is the beginning. Why a Vaiṣṇava should be envious for anyone? Everyone is working according to his karma. He is trying to rectify him, that "Be out of these clutches of karma. You come to bhakti." Why he should be envious? Vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. A Vaiṣṇava should be like ocean of mercy to reclaim the fallen souls. That is Vaiṣṇava's qualification. So Vaiṣṇava should be envious? Just see. So these persons, they are not even human being, what to speak of Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava cannot be envious. Vaiṣṇava should be: "Oh, my Lord's name is being broadcast. He is getting, giving so much service to make Kṛṣṇa known." That man has appreciated, that "All these spiritual leaders, they are deriding.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: They think it's some lesser, ordinary.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And if you say, "Why, then, Kṛṣṇa? There are many names," so Caitanya: "Yes, any name of God, if it is God's name, it is as powerful." If it is God's name. "Any name" does not mean you manufacture some name. That is not. Any name by which one can understand this is God's name, that is there said. Nāmnam akari bahudha-nija sarva-śaktis tatrarpita niyamitaḥ smarane na kalaḥ. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching. If you do not accept Kṛṣṇa as a God's name, then if you have your own name of Kṛṣṇa, er, God, chant it.

Brahmānanda: But it must be standard.

Prabhupāda: Must be God's name.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. But if you do not know what is God's name, then what you will chant? What you will chant? Then you chant Kṛṣṇa. We know it is God's name. Take. Take to our principle. If there is no medical college, come to our medical college. You are welcome. Why you are envious? You have no medical college; at the same time, you are envious of my medical college. Why? Why this nonsense? If you want to learn medical science—you have no medical science, college-come here. This is our proposal. Why you are envious? That means rascal. "Our gold." Gold is "our gold," everyone's gold? "Our gold." What do you mean, "our gold"? Gold is always gold, either in your hand or in my hand. In your hand it is not Christian gold and in my hand it is not Hindu gold. Gold is gold.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if he had declared that "I am not dead," perhaps he would have been again crucified.

Cyavana: Yes. They would keep trying to kill him.

Prabhupāda: Because the people were so intelligent, they would not believe him, so out of fear he went away. "All right, stop my preaching. Come on. (laughs) Let me go to find some safe place." (laughter)

Cyavana: He created a great impression on the minds of men for many, many generations.

Prabhupāda: Imperson?

Cyavana: Impression.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Impression.

Cyavana: Yes. By his preaching he left a strong impression.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is the... This is the process. So this is the process. So now, when he will say, "All right, you can say what you want to say," then, he sādhava: "You are a great personality, nobleman." He may be a loafer class, (laughter) but give him all honor: "You are so great and so exalted," he sādhava, "and so honest." He sādhava. "My only submission is that whatever you have learned, you forget. Whatever nonsense you have learned..." Don't say "nonsense." (laughter) But we must know that he is a pakkā, rascal, nonsense. (laughs) So don't say directly, "nonsense." Say, "You are the great personality. So kindly, whatever you have learned, forget." "Then what shall I do?" He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya durāt: "Kick out whatever you nonsense learned." "Then what shall I do?" Now, caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam: "Kindly be submissive to Lord Caitanya, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." This is our program. No argument. Because he is a rascal, what is the use of arguing with him? He's a rascal number one. You know that. You cannot expect any good argument from the rascals and fools. Where is the logic? Their logic is to beat them with shoes. That is the only logic. But that, if you do that, then you'll not be able to preach. But otherwise that is the only logic, to beat them with shoes. Argumentum vaculum. You know this logic? In logic we have read. There is one logic, argumentum... You know this?

Girl devotee (1): Yes. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You know? What is that? Argumentum vaculum? Hm? With fools and rascals, with animals, there is no logic. Take the stick and beat them. The dog, if he is a dog, what is the argument with him? Take the stick and beat him; then he will go away. That is called argumentum baculum. That is, Sanskrit logic, also said, murkhasya laṭau śādhi (?) "One who is a fool, his only remedy is beating him with stick." This is material. But we are not doing anything material. It is all spiritual. Therefore, especially in this age, Caitanya Mahāprabhu,

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ (sadā hariḥ)

(CC Adi 17.31)

So we should preach like this, any rascal, because anyone who has no information of Kṛṣṇa, who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a rascal. That's all. That we must know. That is definite. There is no mistaking it. But if you say that "You are rascal. There is no mistaking it," then you cannot preach. If you directly call a rascal a rascal, he'll be angry. Murkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śanta...: To give good instruction to a fool rascal will increase his anger, that's all." Then you'll not be able to preach. So you have to become very humble, tṛṇād api sunīcena, humbler than the grass.

Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu advises, taror api sahiṣṇunā-tolerant, humbler than the grass. Amāninā mānadena. Don't expect any honor for your person, but to the others give honor: "Oh, you are most exalted person," although he's a rascal. What can be done? Otherwise you cannot preach. If you call a rascal a rascal, immediately your preaching will be stopped. So you have to say that "You are the greatest intelligent man, sādhu, most honored. The only request is that you forget what you have learned. That's all. And take this." In this way preaching practical. Otherwise it is not possible. Everyone is thinking he is the most exalted personality, scientist, philosopher, great man. That is material disease. Actually he is being kicked every moment by the urges of the senses, and he is thinking he is very great man. Go-dāsa. Go means senses. He is always, I mean, curbed down by the sense urges, and he is thinking, "independent." Independent means servant of the senses. This is going on. So you have to understand the real position of the world, and if you want to preach, then you have to (be) humbler than the tree, humbler than the grass, tolerant than the tree and... We know everyone is rascal; still, you have to give him honor. Then it will be possible to say something. Otherwise it is very difficult. We have to deal with all rascals, fools, rogues, ruffians, all good qualificat..., like. This is... You must know these things. You are dealing with all rascals. So if we call them directly "rascal," they will be angry. Your preaching will not be successful. So follow the principles enunciated by Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī and Caitanya Mahāprabhu.