Prabhupāda: Haridāsa, Śrīnivāsa, and Advaita. They were taking part. Otherwise, all, they were young friends, yes. Young boys. No girls. That is not the system in India. (laughs) Yes. Now when the second scene, mainly their movement was going on and it was becoming popular. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached that simply by the saṅkīrtana movement everything will be fulfilled. You need not do anything. So the priest class brāhmaṇas they became very much dissatisfied that "He is inviting Muhammadans and all others..." Because according to Hindu society, except the brāhmaṇas... Especially in those days, only the brāhmaṇas were considered the highest in the society, and even the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they all calculated to, in the group of śūdras. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was allowing everyone, the Muhammadans, the śūdras, the low class, the high class, the brāhmaṇas... He was amalgamating everyone.
Preaching (Conversations 1967 - 1972)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oblations. Yes. This, and to beget child by the husband's younger brother. Formerly, the society allowed that if a woman is young, she has no child, but husband died, so if the husband has younger brother, through the younger brother she could have a child. This system was current. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that these five things are forbidden in this age. So Chand Kazi also replied that "Cow killing is also not generally recommended in the Koran. Actually, beef-eating or flesh-eating is not in the higher stage. But those who are inclined to take flesh, for them it is recommended that instead of killing many small animals, one big animal should be killed. So actually in Mecca, Medina, they kill camel. That is also in the mosque." So the substance of his speech was that flesh-eating ultimately is not recommended. "But those who have no other means, they eat flesh and they recommend that one big animal should be killed. So India, the cow is big animal, therefore we kill. But that is not recommended for advanced spiritual students." In this way... So they were friends, and he understood, Chand Kazi understood that it is very nice movement, that "You are preaching love of Godhead. So I did not understand. So my dear boy, henceforward there will be no hindrances in Your movement and I promise that not only myself but all my descendants will never object Your movement, this saṅkīrtana movement."
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: Did you come with the purpose of spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I am an ordained minister for preaching these missionary activities. So I came here in September, 1965. Then, for one year, I was traveling in many parts of your country. In the beginning I was in Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh, and then I went to Philadelphia. Then I came to New York. And in this way I was traveling, not very much. And in 1966, in July 1st, I started my class in New York at 26 Second Avenue. That is my first starting. Then the younger generation began to come to me, and they started the San Francisco branch, Montreal branch. In this way the institution is going. And we have sent our students to Europe also. They have already started one branch in London, one in Hamburg. And we have sent our students in Honolulu. They have started a branch there. So our program is to start several..., as many branches as possible to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And it is very easy. We simply invite persons to come and chant with us. It doesn't matter what he is, what is his language, what is his religion. We don't take into account all these things. And this Hare Kṛṣṇa is so easy to utter, that any man can utter. That we have experienced. Any part of the world, we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they can very easily imitate and chant. Even child, they also. So by chanting, he gradually becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. His heart becomes cleansed and he can understand what is science of Kṛṣṇa, what is science of God.
Prabhupāda: Initiation means formally acceptance of the line of activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Before that, before initiation, we invite everyone to come and sit down with us, chant, dance, take prasādam, hear philosophy. And if he understands, "Oh, this is very nice," then he offers himself to be initiated. Then we accept. Then we impose this restriction that "If you want to be initiated..." We get hundreds of letters by everyone who has attended our classes. Daily we are getting some married couples or boys and girls, but most of them are younger. My students are within thirties. The oldest student I have got at the present moment, he is twenty-eight years. No, Kirtanananda is about thirty years old. That's all. So, of course, I do not get any older people. That is nice, hopeful, because younger section, if they take it very seriously, then I have hopes that they will preach in future, even in my absence. And old people, if a man becomes too much accustomed to a certain limited habits, in old age it is very difficult to give it up unless one is extraordinarily intelligent.
Prabhupāda: About the significance of our institution?
Interviewer: No, about the way your clothes, the way you're dressed today. Uh, the robes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, the robe? Yes, I am a sannyāsī. The sannyāsī is the highest status of human social division. According to Vedic culture there are four divisions of human society. Brahmacārī, student life; then householder, gṛhastha; and then vānaprastha, retired life; and then sannyāsa life, means preaching transcendental knowledge to the society from door to door. So this dress... In Vedic culture, there are different dresses for different persons. So this saffron colored dress means that he is admitted without any introduction anywhere because he's understood to be a man of transcendental knowledge. And the householders receive them and take knowledge from them. That is the system of Vedic culture.
Interviewer: You also have a garland of flowers around your neck.
Prabhupāda: That is offered by the disciples as a matter of respect to the spiritual master. It is not necessary that a sannyāsī have a garland like this, but if it is offered with respect he does not refuse.
Interviewer: Then there is a similarity to Catholicism. The priest is supposed to be celibate.
Prabhupāda: Certainly. Anywhere there is spiritual conception, sex life is not indulged. Anywhere, either it may be Christianity or Hinduism... Sex life is materialism. That is opposite number of spiritualism. So people are trained gradually to refrain from sex life. And in the sannyāsa life he's completely trained. Therefore he's allowed to move in the society for preaching spiritual education.
Interviewer: The whole world has heard of the Maharishi Mahesh. Is he part of your order?
Prabhupāda: No. I have heard so much in the paper.
Interviewer: He is the world's most famous guru at the present time.
Prabhupāda: He's not guru. But he's advertised his name like that (laughs). A guru is different thing. But people are, in your country, in the western part of the country, of the world, people are after some spiritual information. So anyone who comes professing as spiritualist, he is welcome, and if he flatters, then it is very convenient to get followers. So we don't follow exactly in that way. We follow exactly the principles of Vedic ways of life. So in that way, sex life for a sannyāsī is strictly prohibited.
Prabhupāda: So you have to convince people like that, that it is not a sentimental institution. We are teaching the thing which is very absolutely needed for the human society. As soon as one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, his personal questions and problems are solved. And if others adopt the same principle, then social-political questions are also solved. So we have to teach. They will say it is not practical. Why not practical? No, anything is not, not practical. There are so many scientific... You discovered. Just like this tape recorder. This is advantageous to the human society. But it is not practical that everyone will have a nice tape recorder. That is not practical. But when you go to manufacture, say the discoverer, "Oh, that it is not practical; therefore it should not be manufactured." Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness may not be practical for all, but that does not mean it should not be preached. The customer will take. Just like this tape recorder, one has got money, you have purchased, taking advantage. Similarly, there are many pious persons who can take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you have taken. You are not ordinary common men. There must have been some pious activities in your past lives.
Prabhupāda: They kill the grandfather and have a feast, the cannibals. Yes. That is a great sport, that the grandsons will kill the grandfather and have a feast on his body by toasting.(?) Yes. The same idea is being preached by the communists. They want that all old man of the society, they should be killed. That is one of the theories put forward by the communists. Because they are not producing anything. So just imagine, these things will come gradually. So better to leave this place as soon as possible. Not to come again. That should be our serious attention. The other day the radio man was asking, "Swamiji, how to adjust?" "And there is no adjustment. You have to go out of the scene. There is no adjustment." So he was not very happy. If I would have bluffed him, "Oh, you do this, you do that, you do this humanitarian work, you spread(?) education and give foodstuff." No! There is no adjustment. The only adjustment is quit this place. That is the function of this human form of life. You can get out of this show by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says that this is the abode of miseries and that also temporary. Because you can accept any miserable life. That is the spell of māyā. Just like this dog life. If somebody asked me, "Would you like to be a dog? I can make you," shall I agree? Why not? Because I know that's miserable life.
Prabhupāda: There is no conflict at all. The conflict is between persons who are godless, who does not believe in God. Conflict is there. The conflict is not between East and West; the conflict is between the atheists and the theists. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not that we are trying to replace something by Indian method to Christian method or Jewish method. That is not our policy. This is... In one sense, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the post-graduate study of all religions. What is the method of religion? To accept the authority of God. That is the primary principle of every religion, may be Christian religion or Hindu religion or Mohammedan religion. It doesn't matter. But people are becoming godless. That is the problem. They are thinking that "There is no God. Nature is everything." That is their foolishness. They are unhappy for this godlessness. And as a result of this godlessness, the Communist party have sprang up, the hippies have sprang up and so many other things will gradually spring up. So there is no check. It is... The only check is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if people are taught that he can be happy only by reestablishing his eternal relationship with God. So our test of religion is how one has developed his God consciousness or love of God. We do not accept any principle of religion as genuine if we see that the followers have no love of God but they have got love of matter.
Prabhupāda: Other belief, they are also based on the principle of love. That is actually not belief; that is misbelief. Because any religious principle... Just like Buddhism. Buddhism, actually, they do not believe in God, but they have love for Lord Buddha. So love is there. They may declare that "We don't believe in God," but they love Lord Buddha. And according to our Vedic scripture, Lord Buddha is also incarnation of God. So we interpret in this way, that Lord Buddha preached among the atheists by cheating them. Oh, how it is? That they did not believe in God, and Lord Buddha said, "Oh, yes, there is no God. But you love Me." So they are loving Lord Buddha. Similarly, there are many persons. They do not believe in family life, they do not believe in so many things, but love is there. He is sleeping with a cat, with a dog. So in no circumstances you can avoid love, but they are suffering because the love is misplaced and misused.
Prabhupāda: I was born and educated in Calcutta. Calcutta is my home place. I was born in 1896, and I was my father's pet child, so my education began a little late, and still, I was educated in higher secondary, high school for eight years. In primary school four years, higher secondary school, eight years, in college, four years. Then I joined Gandhi's movement, national movement. But by good chance I met my Guru Mahārāja, my spiritual master, in 1922. And since then, I was attracted in this line, and gradually I gave up my household life. I was married in 1918 when I was still a third year student. And so I got my children. I was doing business. Then I retired from my family life in 1954. For four years I was alone, without any family. Then I took regularly renounced order of life in 1959. Then I devoted myself in writing books. My first publication came out in 1962, and when there were three books, then I started for your country in 1965 and I reached here in September, 1965. Since then, I am trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in America, Canada, in European countries. And gradually the centers are developing. The disciples are also increasing. Let me see what is going to be done.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's nice. That is very nice. Yes. If one gets Kṛṣṇa actually, he or she forgets everything. That is sure. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ nādhikaṁ manyate tataḥ. After getting Kṛṣṇa, nobody wants to get anything more. He is full. Svamin krtartho 'smi. "My dear Lord, I am now fully satisfied." That is the preaching we are making, that everyone is trying to love something. Either personally his body, senses, or then expanded; wife, children; then family, community, society, and country, humanity; extending. But there is no, I mean to say, satisfaction. Because the real lovable object is Kṛṣṇa. And when he goes to Kṛṣṇa, then, oh, svamin krtartho 'smi. The same example: just like you are feeling hunger. Now, somebody told you, "Give food." So you are trying to put food in the nose, in the ear, in the mouth, in the anus(?), in this and that. No satisfaction. You give it here, oh, fully satisfied. We do not know where to put our love. That we are teaching, best spot. Most valuable conclusion. But unfortunately, they are not...
Govinda dāsī: It's all right. Tamāla, it's ten after six.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, six. (end)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He mentioned other religious people, and he said if we can just keep the crowd moving, then we have every right to be there. So he has given us right to go to Hollywood. In downtown Los Angeles we don't have that right yet. We'll still go there, but in Hollywood it is all right. So that's good enough.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. It is Kṛṣṇa's grace. I was telling the same thing to Dayānanda, that he should present this case to the higher officer. That's all. We are preaching God consciousness. We should be given... That was the Vedic law. Saintly persons, they should be given all protection. If somebody insulted a saintly person, there was a special punishment for that. That's all right. So you take that house, that is Hollywood quarter? Hm. Give him more. No. I have got. You take. Oh, Nandarāṇī is outside? Why she is outside?
Woman: It's the baby.
Prabhupāda: Baby was not disturbing. I have received one letter from San Francisco. They are shortage of men. So Dinadayal is going back?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh no. We need more men here. (Prabhupāda laughs) We are so short. That is the problem. We have too few people here. Dīnadayālu is so essential. I was just going to ask you if we could have some more men. Jayarāma...
Prabhupāda: Create men. Bring some men.
Prabhupāda: Authorized from Kṛṣṇa.
Journalist: Is there in India a licensing body by the state for people to preach or to... How in the heck would you say it here?
Prabhupāda: It was not there because in India there are so many churches, and they're supposed to be very saintly person. So simply to become a disciple of a saintly person is sufficient certificate. Just like in your country, marriage requires certificate. In India still, there is no certificate. The boys and girls, they are seated before the relatives and priest and elderly persons. They are offered. I am doing that. There is no certificate. But still their connection is lifelong. What certificate will do? That ceremony is so nice, the wife takes "My husband for life" and the husband takes wife, "She is my companion for life." They cannot separate. There is no history in India that there was a certificate issued. No. But still, their connection is so nice, that life long. Now, they are being westernized, especially I am very sorry to say that lately our so-called westernized leaders they are introducing this Hindu code bill, this marriage certificate, this and that. But formerly they weren't existing.
Prabhupāda: First of all, a boy is trained as brahmacārī, spiritual life. Then he is advised not to enter family life. But if he is unable to control his sex life, he is allowed, "All right. You get yourself married." Then he remains in family life. So he marries at the age of 24 or 25. 25 years, let him enjoy sex life. In the meantime, he gets some elderly children. So at the age of 50, the husband and wife goes away from the home and they travel in all places of pilgrimage just to detach them from family affection. In this way, when the man is a little more advanced, he asks his wife that "You go and take care of the family and your sons, grown-up, they'll take care of you. Let me take sannyāsa." So he becomes alone and preaches the knowledge which he has acquired. This is Vedic civilization. Not that a man should remain in family life from birth to death. No. In Buddhism also there is compulsory regulative principle that a Buddhist must become a sannyāsī at least for ten years. Yes. Because the whole idea is how to attain spiritual perfection. So if one remains in his family life, encumbered, he cannot make any spiritual advancement. But if the family also, whole family is Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is helpful. But that is very rare. Because the husband may be Kṛṣṇa conscious, the wife may not be. But the culture was so nice that everyone remained Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) You see. That is our test. If you have developed... We don't say that you follow Christianism or Muhammadanism or Jewism or Hinduism—we don't say. Whether you are developing your love of Godhead. But they deny, "Oh, I am God. Who is God? I am God." You see? Everyone is taught nowadays that everyone is God. Just see how fun. Everyone is God. Do you think like that?
Journalist: You know from Meher Baba?
Prabhupāda: He is also another rascal. He is preaching this that everyone is God.
Journalist: He says he's God.
Prabhupāda: He's God. Just see. This is going on.
Journalist: Do you know him?
Prabhupāda: I have heard his name. I don't care to know these people. He's making some propaganda he's God.
Journalist: He says he hasn't spoken in forty years, forty-five years.
Prabhupāda: That means people do not know what is God. Suppose if I come to you, if I say I am President Johnson, will you accept me?
Journalist: No (laughing) I don't think I would.
Prabhupāda: But these people, rascals, will accept him as God because they do not know what is God. That is the defect. We know what is God, therefore we cannot accept any rascal declaring that he's God. That is the difference.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: How long have you been in this country?
Prabhupāda: Since 1965, September.
Interviewer: Did you come to found this society?
Prabhupāda: Not exactly, but I came to preach the gospel of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and fortunately I met some enthusiastic young boys and girls. So then we formed this society.
Interviewer: This was in New York?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I first came in New York. Then I went to Pittsburgh, and for one year I was traveling, and I established this society in July 1, 1966.
Interviewer: How many centers are there now?
Prabhupāda: There are six centers. Why six? Seven. Seven centers. One in New York, one in San Francisco, one in Los Angeles, and one, Santa Fe, one, Montreal, one, Boston, one, Buffalo.
Interviewer: And there is a great deal of the repetitive chanting involved then in the meditation? How much is preaching? Supposing you were going, you are gathered together to accomplish this approach to consciousness. What happens? Do you speak with your disciples?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Interviewer: And do they raise questions or is it a formalized ritual?
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all we pray to God to help us in the, our, I mean to say, preaching or chanting process. Then we begin chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma, conjoinedly, congregationally. And it immediately transfers the atmosphere to a spiritual feeling, and if you sometimes attend our class, you can see practically how the boys and girls, they become ecstatic and chant and dance. So after chanting and dancing for a few minutes, say, fifteen to twenty minutes, then we speak something from Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about theology and philosophy, ethics, morality. Then again we chant and pray to God and then close our class.
Interviewer: And that's why I wondered if there were prohibitions within, you know, the outside contact with society that you make.
Prabhupāda: But our formula is that one should live... It is called sato vṛtteḥ. The vṛtti, the profession or the means of livelihood, must be very fair. Must be very fair. Sato vṛtteḥ. Because association will contaminate my mind and my intelligence, therefore, as far as possible, sato vṛtti. And this sato vṛtti is a Sanskrit word. According to the purification of profession, livelihood, one is called a brāhmaṇa, one is called a kṣatriya, one is called a vaiśya, one is called a śūdra, one is called lower than the śūdras. You see? So that is also... But in this age one cannot stick to a particular profession. Just like for the brāhmaṇas. The brāhmaṇas... For brāhmaṇas it is enjoined that they should learn scripture and they should preach scripture. That's all. They have six kinds of occupation. One of the main is this, to learn and to teach. But at the present moment everything has changed. So there is change. But as far as possible, we don't accept a profession or any job which is abominable.
Prabhupāda: We cannot say, just like, in some hotels, that "Such and such persons are not admitted." No. We cannot. We admit everyone. Our mission is to elevate persons from down state of life to the highest state of life. So everyone is in down state. Lord Jesus Christ also said that "You do not hate the sinners, but hate sin." Is not that, Lord Jesus Christ said? So hippies may be sinners. We raise them to the pious life. But we say, "Don't do this. Don't do this sinful act. Don't take intoxication. Don't do this. Don't do this." We hate sin, not the sinners. Actually. If we hate sinners, then where is the possibility of preaching?
Miss Rose: If the hippies would come, come, come...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Miss Rose: Then you can get them out of this hippie into Christian conscience. See.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission.
Pradyumna: Can the boys downstairs bring them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they were to go to see some other temple which is called Śeṣayī Temple. So although I was new man, I did not like to go to see the Śeṣayī Temple. I decided that "I shall hear." So at that time I was new, so all other, some of my important godbrothers, they were sitting like this, and I was sitting. At last, you see. But he knew that "This boy is new." Everyone has gone, all others except a few selected godbrothers. So he marked it that "This boy is interested to hear me." So hearing is very important. Hearing. Just like Arjuna heard from Kṛṣṇa. Come on. (People entering) (Break) ...because I was serious for hearing, and therefore now I am serious about kīrtanaṁ, means speaking, or preaching. Do you follow what I say? Yes. So one who is serious about hearing, he can become a future nice preacher. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ. Next stage is developed. That is development. If one has actually heard nicely, then he will speak nicely. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ smaraṇaṁ. Then consciousness will automatically develop because when you speak or you hear, unless your mind is concentrated, your consciousness is right, you cannot rightly hear or speak. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. And then the development, "How I shall serve Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is so loving. Kṛṣṇa is so great," that automatically comes.
Prabhupāda: Kalki's nature, that is described in Bhāgavata. He will come just like a prince, royal dress with sword, and on horseback, simply killing, no preaching. All rascals killed. No more preaching. (laughing) That is the last. There will be no brain to understand what is God.
Allen Ginsberg: There will be no brain to understand God?
Prabhupāda: They will be so dull, so dull. It requires brain to understand. Just like in the Bhāgavata it is said that evaṁ prasanna-manaso (SB 1.2.20), "fully joyful," bhagavad-bhakti-yoga, "by practice of bhakti-yoga." Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ, mukta-saṅgasya: "and freed from all material contamination." He can understand God. Do you think God is so cheap thing, anyone will understand? Because they do not understand, they present something nonsense: "God is like this. God is like that. God is like that." And when God Himself comes, that "Here I am, Kṛṣṇa," they don't accept it. They'll create their own God.
Prabhupāda: Then both of you are required. Then how you can say that "I'll leave this place," how he can say he'll leave? You must jointly work because both of you, you have started this New Vrindaban, and you have to work jointly. There may be sometimes disagreement, but you should settle up. Otherwise how you can make progress? He's a sannyāsī. He has got the right to travel. That is his business. He can go and preach. That is actually his business. His business is not to stay any place. Just like I am also; in this old age I am traveling, parivrājaka. So if you think that you can do without him, then he can travel and sometimes he may come here.
Hayagrīva: Well, I think he's necessary here. Definitely we need him.
Prabhupāda: So if his presence is necessary, then he is a sannyāsī; he should be given some responsible post. And if he is not necessary, then his main business is to go. Now, if I... I am getting older. If he travels all over the centers and sees as superintendent what things are going on, that will be also nice. And in my absence he can deliver speech and in that way he can get experience. Now he went to North Carolina. He did nicely. So... I know that both of you are required here to develop this center. Not that if you say, "I go," and if he says he goes, then this place, the advancement which is progressing, this will be stopped. It is now in the nascent stage. You should not neglect now. You should work conjointly.
Hayagrīva: Well, I don't care. I'll leave it up to you then. I'll leave it up to you. You can do what you want.
Prabhupāda: No... You... My... I have explained. He is... As a sannyāsī, he should live everywhere temporarily just like I live temporarily. Aniketa. A sannyāsī should not have a permanent place. Anywhere he goes, temporary. So because you think that his service is required, then he should remain here. Otherwise, as he has accepted sannyāsa order, he should travel, go and preach. And especially nowadays, I cannot go everywhere. He can go, and he can recruit members. He can make propaganda of New Vrindaban to many persons, to the, I mean to say, foundations. As I have suggested, make pamphlet. So he can do outside work very nicely for developing Vṛndāvana.
Hayagrīva: How much of his time do you think should be spent doing this?
Prabhupāda: Which one?
Hayagrīva: Preaching and traveling.
Prabhupāda: He should always preach and travel. Always. There is immense field here. He should convince people that we are developing such centers. And you make a nice literature, picture. You go. He is educated. He is intelligent. He has studied our philosophy. He can go and speak.
Hayagrīva: Well, I mean I don't care that much. If you want to put him in charge...
Prabhupāda: That is... No. So far, if you ask my advice, he should do that work, outside propaganda, preaching. But as you say that his presence is required, therefore I say he may remain here. Otherwise, to remain here is not his duty as a sannyāsī. That is actually your duty, to organize the local management and everything. And his duty is outside work, preaching. He may have one assistant, and he can travel. He can educate your countrymen that "Here is a nice thing we are developing. Please come and cooperate." Invite him, and when he comes you receive him and give him good reception. In this way you have to make propaganda, outside and inside. Just like Kṛṣṇa is making outside and inside propaganda. Inside He is Supersoul; outside He is spiritual master to reclaim these fallen souls. Similarly, we should also work outside-inside. And for making outside propaganda, I think he will be the best man. Suppose if he goes to New York, stays for some time, sees respectable foundation and presidents and just to attract their attention this side... Similarly, if he goes Los Angeles, San Francisco, all other cities, Boston, and sees important men, makes propaganda that "We are doing this. Please come and help," that will be very nice. Arrange lectures from... Our local temples may arrange lectures, and he can impress people about the importance of this movement. Not only one, I require several such preachers now. Now we are improving. We are increasing our propaganda. We require several such assistants. So those who have decided to remain brahmacārī, some of them, those who are experienced, they can accept this sannyāsa order and preach. Outside propaganda is also required. Don't you think? Outside propaganda?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lord Caitanya, He would cry so that He could hear them chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa to Him?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was not on that day, but when He was little grown up. As soon as He would cry, so the neighboring friends of His mother, all young girls would come and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and He'll stop. Sometimes they would tease Him so that He may cry, and they'll see that He's crying, and they'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and He'll stop. Again tease. (laughs) So that Caitanya Mahāprabhu was preaching Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting by His childhood activities.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What are some of the things that He did when He was a little boy? Some tricks or things?
Prabhupāda: Sometimes He would play with snakes. One day, when He was crawling in the courtyard... Indian house... As, just like here is compound outside. In Indian house there is courtyard inside. So He was crawling in the yard, and a snake came, a snake. And He began to play with the snake. The snake will do like this and crawling, and He would see it, He would strike. In this way the snake was playing and the mother became so much afraid. They cannot touch. If the snake bites... So they simply saw that the child is playing with the snake, and after some time the snake went away. And they took up the child, "Oh, God has saved this child, otherwise He would have been killed. Such a venomous, big snake."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They will pay nice money to hear us?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (reading letter:) "This can be made extensive by your team of followers from America arriving in..." They are greater. So Indian and American combined kīrtana, oh, it will be very nice. Big kīrtana, and every city will receive. And we shall preach that "Here is the common platform for everyone. There is no distinction of nation or religion or anything. Come to the platform." So the Mohammedans also will join. The government will appreciate that here is something secular, real secular; at the same time, God is there. Actually, it is that. All religious people, so-called religious, come here. And religion means this, to love, I mean to say, develop love of God. That is religion. What is this formularies? Simply formula that "I keep this, I copy that." That is not religion, simply by dressing in different way or sitting in a different way. Where is your understanding? You have no understanding of God. You simply formally attend some church or mosque or temple for some material benefit or for some, make some show, but where is your love of God? That is the test of religion, Bhāgavata says. A religious person means he has got complete love of God. Then he is religious. All right. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time. Bhāgavata says, without developing this love of Godhead, if somebody is engaged in religious ritualistic performance, he's simply wasting his time. Śrama... That particular word is used, śrama eva hi kevalam. Śrama means labor. Eva. Certainly, it is simply laboring. What is called? Labor of love? What is called?
Prabhupāda: No, when singing is there, all the players and all the audience and everyone will sing. That will be very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Even maybe Lord Caitanya says to Nityānanda Prabhu, "Go to all the people and tell them about Kṛṣṇa." So at that moment, we all, all the brahmacārīs, we go into the people and we talk. Then we come back and tell Lord Caitanya. We can preach too.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So it's, it's fifteen.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Govinda dāsī: Stop now? (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you tell me something about Caitanya's initiation in Vaiṣṇava faith? When He was initiated?
Prabhupāda: After His father's death it is the custom amongst the Hindus to offer oblations at Gayā. There is a temple, Viṣṇu temple. They offer prasādam. This is a Hindu custom. And with that prasādam the forefathers and the father is offered. So He went to perform that ceremony and by chance He met Īśvara Purī and He was initiated by Īśvara Purī. And after coming back from Gayā, He became very much emotional for Kṛṣṇa, and sometimes people thought that He has become crazy. So His mother treated with some oil. But learned devotees, they said that He has got devotional emotion. So His initiation was in Gayā, when He went to perform that ceremony. So you can show the Gayā temple or some temple. And He's offering oblations, He's meeting His spiritual master, he's initiating. In this way you can make it two, three scenes. And He became emotional chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa after initiation.
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī... Sannyāsa reason was different. There was some misunderstanding between His students and... They were of same age. Because Nimāi Paṇḍita was very intelligent boy, so He was teaching other boys practically of the same age. So there was some misunderstanding and the students wanted to retaliate. He went to strike them with a stick, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And because they're of the same age they made a conference, "Oh, this Nimāi Paṇḍita has become very big man. He wants to strike us. Next time if He does so, then we shall also strike Him." Then He thought that "In this householder's position I cannot preach. I must take sannyāsa. Otherwise they will not respect Me." That is the system in India. A sannyāsī in this dress, whatever rascal he may be, he is offered immediately all respect. That is the system in India. So therefore He took sannyāsa early age, 24 years, 24 years of age.
Prabhupāda: The first scene should be that Nityānanda Prabhu and Haridāsa Ṭhākura. They were ordered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu to go every day to, from one neighborhood to another and preach. So one day when they came out they saw at a distant place a crowd. So you have to make scene that a crowded place and these two brothers, Jagāi and Mādhāi, they have pickpocketed somebody and... Because they were debauches, so there was some howling and crowds. Yes. So Nityānanda Prabhu inquired, and people said that "These two brothers, they're born of a very respectable family, but they have now become debauches." So Nityānanda Prabhu, "Oh, they are so fallen? So best thing is to convert them first. Then Lord Caitanya's name will be glorious that He has delivered such rascals." So He went there to save. Then he said, "Who are you?" As soon as they came in, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, chanting, and these brothers said, "Oh, who are you?" "Oh, we are Nityānanda, and he is Haridāsa. We are preaching. You also join with us." So, "Oh get out! Hare Kṛṣṇa, your damn Hare Kṛṣṇa. Get out!" (chuckles) So Haridāsa Ṭhākura was old man, and he was afraid. But Nityānanda was young man so He fled away. Haridāsa Ṭhākura could not go so swift. He said, "My dear Nityānanda, I think today my life is at risk." So anyway, then after they were going away, the crowd dispersed and the brothers were talking. So one brother was talking to the other, "Jagāi, I think that these people very nicely sing. Don't you hear?" "Oh! You are going to be a saṅkīrtana man?" "No, no, no! I am not going to be saṅkīrtana man. Just I am talking about it." So this was their beginning appreciation. Then next day, again in the same place, Nityānanda came, and He requested, "My dear brothers, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So the Mādhāi, no Jagāi, Jagāi was so angry. They were drinking.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you stay here and join your son for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Because your son is so good, you must be good. Because a son cannot be good unless the mother is good. Because son inherits the mother's quality. That is nature. This Hayagrīva's mother wrote me first one letter of congratulations, and she came also to see me in New Vrindaban, his father and mother. Especially his mother is very happy. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will produce good father and mother, and therefore they will have good children, and there will be no problem in the world. If everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Not everyone, even ten per cent people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there will be no problem. Problem is created due to bad children. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Varṇa-saṅkara. So if there are good children, there is no problem. Even in this material world, everything will become happy. The basic principle of Vedic civilization is to create good children. All the rules and regulations, everything is there just to create good children. In the first chapter of Bhagavad-gītā these things are described very nicely by Arjuna. There are many purificatory processes to create a good child. A human being is not meant for creating offspring like cats and dogs. They must produce very good child. That is Vedic civilization.
Prabhupāda: You suggest that "Here is another solution. Why we should take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" No. There is no other. You have got any suggestion, any other method? No. Then why don't you take to it and preach? What is the difficulty? You don't like? (break) ...especially Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yes. That is the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā-matiḥ krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate tatra laulyam ekalaṁ mūlyam na janma-koṭi sukṛtair labhyate. Very nice verse. He instructs that "If you can purchase Kṛṣṇa consciousness from any market, any store, please immediately buy it." Then next question is "Then what is the price? What shall I have to pay for it?" And Rūpa Gosvāmī says, "Oh, the price is simply eagerness." Tatra laulyam... "Yes, I must have Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is the price. Laulyam, that eagerness is not achieved even after many, many births. That is the price. Therefore it requires a little intelligence. "Oh, such a valuable thing? I can purchase only by eagerness? Why not become eager immediately?" That is intelligence. You are German or Australian or... (end)
Yoko Ono: If Hare Kṛṣṇa is such a strong, powerful mantra, is there any reason to chant anything else? For instance, you talked about songs and many different mantras. Is there any point in chanting other songs or mantra?
Prabhupāda: No, no. These mantras are also... But Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is specially recommended for this age. And the Vedic mantras, they are also chanted, I told you, with musical, tampura, and they sit down and chant. Nārada Muni, he's chanting always. So chanting through musical instruments, mantras, it is not new introduction. It is from time immemorial. And Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, especially in this age, that is recommended in many Vedic literature, Brahmanda Purāṇa, Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad, Agni Purāṇa, like that. And apart from the statement in the Vedic literature, Lord Caitanya Himself, He preached this mantra. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... And people, public, followed Him. Yes. (break) So anything... Just like a scientist. When he discovers something, it becomes a public property. People may take advantage of it. Similarly, if mantra has got potency, all people should take advantage of it. Why it should be secret?
George Harrison: All people can get the mantras that we have, but it's just they must get it from somebody else. We can't give it to them, but it is available for everybody.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mantra, if it is valuable, it is valuable for everybody. Why it should be for a particular person?
John Lennon: If all mantras are... All mantras just the name of God. Whether it's a secret mantra or an open mantra, it's all the name of God. So it doesn't really make much difference, does it, which one you sing?
Prabhupāda: No. Just like in drug shop they sell all medicine for disease, curing disease. But still, you have to take doctor's prescription to take a particular type of medicine. They will not supply you. If you go to a drug shop and you say, "I am diseased. You give me any medicine," that is not... He'll ask you, "Where is your prescription?" So similarly, in this age, in Kali-yuga age, this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, is recommended in the śāstras, and great stalwart—we consider Him the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa-Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He preached this. Therefore our principle is everyone should follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We should follow the footprints of great authorities. That is our business. The Vedic mantra says, tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. If you simply try to argue and try to approach the Absolute, it is very difficult, simply by argument and reasoning, because our arguments and reason are limited because our senses are imperfect. (break) So tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. And scriptures, there are different kinds of scriptures. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Philosophers, every philosopher has got a different opinion, and unless a philosopher defeats other philosopher, he cannot become a big philosopher. So therefore philosophical speculation also will not make a solution. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām. So it is very secret. Then how to get that secret thing? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). You simply follow great personalities, how they have achieved success.
Yoko Ono: I mean the fact that we are doing songwriting and all that. It's a waste of time, isn't it? Without Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, not waste of time. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was chanting simply. Even He was criticized by great sannyāsīs that "You have taken sannyāsa. You do not read Vedānta. You are simply chanting and dancing." He was criticized. But the thing is, when Caitanya Mahāprabhu met such stalwart scholars, He was not lagging behind. Similarly, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient. There is no doubt about it. But if somebody wants to understand this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra through philosophy, through study, through Vedānta, we are not lacking. We have got books. It is not that Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is insufficient, therefore we are recommending books. No. Not like that. Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient. But... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was chanting, but when there was a Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, when there was a Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, oh, He was ready to argue with him with Vedānta. So we should not be dumb. If somebody comes to argue with Vedānta philosophy, then we must be prepared. When we are preaching, there will be so many people, different types of people will come. Otherwise Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient. Sufficient. It does not require any education, any reading, anything. Simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and you get the highest perfection. That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Just like channel you'll understand very easily. You send some money order to your friend. So from which channel he'll receive? He'll receive through the post office, not through any other channel. So if the postal peon delivers it, you are confident, "Yes, the money has come." So why you give the importance to the postal peon? Because he's representative of the post office. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the original authority. So the Kṛṣṇa's representative is the authority. And who is Kṛṣṇa's representative? Who is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So therefore the devotee of Kṛṣṇa is authority, at least of Bhagavad-gītā. So you have to receive through the devotee of Kṛṣṇa about Bhagavad-gītā. One who does not know anything about Kṛṣṇa, how he can preach Bhagavad-gītā? This is common sense.
Jill: Will you excuse me? I must put my baby to bed. Good night.
Prabhupāda: (Chuckles) Take some prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Physical... Just like a milk preparation. You take large quantity of milk, you get diarrhea. But the same milk, if it is prepared into yogurt, if you take it, your diarrhea will be cured. So physical things, when treated spiritually, it cures physical disease.
Guest (4) (Indian man): You said the approach to spiritual goal, through this way, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma. Okay. Now there is another philosophy which has been preached by Ramakrishna and Vivekananda: "The service of man is the service of God."
Prabhupāda: And why not service of God service of man?
Guest (4): No...
Prabhupāda: First of all answer this. If service of man is service of God, why not service of God, service of man?
Guest (4): Okay. It is one and the same thing because within man is within the soul, which is...
Prabhupāda: So, one thing, suppose that service of God is service of man, then why should you go door to door serving ... If God is service of man, if you say service of man is service of God, then service of God is service of man.
Satsvarūpa: Oh. Well, this is...
Prabhupāda: Glossary?
Satsvarūpa: For the Īśopaniṣad. And Hayagrīva Prabhu thought that there was too much preaching in the definition. Like, say, in the definition of bhakti, I shouldn't say, "Bhakti is the highest form of yoga." Well, I don't know if... I'm not speaking your words, but to make it, not to preach more, but I thought that was right.
Prabhupāda: Glossary should be short as possible.
Satsvarūpa: Short as possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. At the same time carrying the meaning.
Satsvarūpa: The conclusion of Vaiṣṇava philosophy. That's the absolute meaning.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It should not be describing the definition. That is not glossary. Glossary should be explained in gist, but the meaning should be carried.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Haṁsadūta: "Patel Pola(?) of Chicago had observed that he was a construction worker doing a śūdra's work. It would not become necessary to allot the three lower castes to the foreign converts according to their professions. This will not be an easy task. Talking of profession reminds me of a still graver problem—that of the occupation or profession of the white sādhus. If I am not mistaken, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement would turn out legions of new white sādhus in the West whose only aim in life would be to propitiate their Lord Kṛṣṇa. They would be steeped in the bhakti-rasa and would not soil their hands with doing any work for such a mundane thing as earning a living."
Prabhupāda: They are not doing anything. Actually they are not doing anything. They are preaching only.
Guest (1) (Indian man): No, but he says that legions of sādhus, such white men, persons from West, become sādhus, then who will do this job of earning a living?
Prabhupāda: Why he is crying? If he is hungry, let him come here. We shall provide him. Why he is crying for that? What business he has got to cry, "What will they do?" What they will, that they know. Why he is crying? What is his business for crying for this future? If he is hungry, let him come and we shall provide him. This is not... That is a childish conception. "If everybody becomes sādhu, then what will be the nature of the society?" That is, never becomes. That never becomes. To become sādhu and to become a Vaiṣṇava is not so easy thing. These idle questions, why they publish? I do not know. This is idle question. It never becomes. Lord Kṛṣṇa personally says that "You simply surrender unto Me." How many have surrendered till now? Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You give up everything and surrender unto Me." So how many have done that? So this is a rascal question, "If everyone surrenders, then what will happen to the world?" But that will never happen. It is very difficult to surrender.
Prabhupāda: So there was no money with me and in an awkward position... My philosophy is completely different. I was to ask them to cease from four kinds of sinful activities, and they are habituated to these things. Illicit sex, and drinking, wine and intoxication and gambling—these are their daily affairs. So I was thinking, "I have to stop this. Who will hear me?" But Kṛṣṇa... Everything became...
Guest (1): May I ask one thing. How you chose this America to be your first...?
Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja ordered me that "You go and preach this cult amongst the English speaking public and specially in the western countries." So first of all I thought of London, where is London, but I had no money. So I got the opportunity for going U.S.A. free on the, on a trade ship by the Scindia Steam Navigation. They gave me their first-class cabinet, the proprietor's cabinet. I was well carried. But first of all I went free on a steamship. I had no money, what to speak of aeroplane. So... What was your question?
Guest (1): My question was that how you selected America to be your...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So I got the opportunity to go to America because their ship goes to New York. So I accepted, "All right, we can see, either go to London or New York." New York is better place than London.
Prabhupāda: They are attracted to Kṛṣṇa. These people, they are... (Hindi) But you are taking Kṛṣṇa as Hindu. That is your mistake. Kṛṣṇa is... Hindu ne. He is God. He is God. God Hindu ne, Mussulman ne, Christian ne, Parsi ne—God is God. (Hindi) And I am also not interested to preach Hindu dharma. (Hindi) ...Kṛṣṇa dharma. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the only dharma. (Hindi) ...Kṛṣṇa literature. It is not a Hindu dharma literature. (Hindi)
So they are not interested in many gods, Durga, Kali, or Śiva, or... (Hindi) Strictly, if you take the version of Bhagavad-gītā, why Bhagavān says that "You give up all religion. Simply you take to the shelter of My feet?" That means to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet is the only religion. (Hindi) Practically that was against Hindu conception. (Hindi) We are not talking of God, (Hindi) we are talking of love. Why you misunderstand? Don't misunderstand the philosophy. We are teaching love of Godhead. It is not we are teaching that you become afraid of God. (break) (Hindi) Bahut easy process hai. You come, sing, dance, and take prasādam. Is there any difficulty? If people come to us, in melodious songs they sing and they dance and when they are tired they take sumptuously prasādam, so what can be the more convenient way? (Hindi) You are a qualified lawyer, but you cannot do for want of money. (Hindi) He has no right because he does not know what is name.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (9): ...and your ceremony...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, if you go anywhere, if you want to preach Hinduism, why they should be interested in Hinduism? They can hear some words. But we are not talking of Hinduism and Mohammedanism; we are talking on the science of God.
Guest (9): The true philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is God? What is the conception of God? Oh, they have accepted, therefore: "Yes, here it is right conception." Yes.
Guest (9): Go back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: What is that self?
Guest (4): That is to be realized. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: This is going on. One has no idea what is dharma, what is the end, but he becomes, "Oh, I have appeared for establishing dharma." And when he is asked, "What is that dharma?" "It is to be realized." Then what you have realized that you are preaching dharma?
Guest (4): Sadācāra...
Prabhupāda: Sadācāra is the means. Sadācāra is not the end.
Guest (4): Can I know as to what made these young people want to leave the affluent present society and join this...
Prabhupāda: Because they are sincere, seeking after...
Guest (4): Pardon, sir?
Prabhupāda: They are sincere, sincerely seeking after. Their material business is finished because they have enjoyed enough of material things. Now there is spiritual inquiry. That is natural. When our material necessities are complete, we enjoy, then next stage is spiritual hankering. And that is explained in the Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. After finishing karma-kāṇḍīya life... Karma-kāṇḍīya life means you do pious activities and enjoy life. That is called karma-kāṇḍīya. So... But the fact is that even you get your birth in a very rich family, you cannot avoid the sufferings of this material nature. Just like yesterday we had an interview with Holkar(?), His Highness Holkar, the old gentleman. So he was a king. He has got very beautiful wife, very beautiful family, very palatial building, but he is not happy, we saw. So the foolish people, they do not know that in this material life there is no happiness.
Guest (4): Last night in your learned discourse you said that you're supposed to found a temple in this city.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (4): But you preach the Vedic mārga. Don't you think that instead of building a temple, āśramas in this brahmacārī model would be...
Prabhupāda: Yes. And without temple the brahmacārīs will be vyabhicāris. (laughter)
Guest (4): That āśrama becomes a temple.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we... Wherever we have got a center we have got a temple and at the same time teaching. These two things must go parallel. If simply dry teachings go on and there is no temple worship, then gradually he will glide down to vyabhicāri instead of brahmacārī.
Guest (4): Besides the chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and arousing(?) this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the people, what else are you doing to establish the way...?
Prabhupāda: That you have seen this morning. We are teaching every day the śāstra. They are not simply chanting. Their chanting is based on understanding. Therefore they are sticking.(?)
Guest (4): Mahārāja, the educational system of this country has so much deteriorated. I have been studying. I see young people of different colleges, boys and girls taking to LSD even in this city and doing to all sorts of nonsense. What is the best...?
Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. As soon as there is indulgence in illicit sex life, all bad qualification will come. That I was explaining.
Prabhupāda: You get your degree. That's all right. Finish your education. If I'll be able to open a center, nice center, I shall call so many people, "Come and live with me and be trained up." I am just writing one advertisement. We shall have to publish it. Just read it.
Haṁsadūta: "Wanted: qualified brāhmaṇas for preaching Bhagavad-gītā all over the world. (laughter) Candidates accepted without any discrimination of caste and creed. Apply ISKCON."
Yamunā: Oh, ho, ho, Prabhupāda!
Haṁsadūta: "Life member can send any member of his family for being trained up as a qualified brāhmaṇa who can preach Bhagavad-gītā as it is all over the world." You're going to put this in the newspaper?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes.
Haṁsadūta: Oh, that will be nice. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yamunā: Oh, that's a wonderful notice, Prabhupāda. It's so wonderful.
Prabhupāda: We have to preach all over the world. We require so many men, so many boys, girls, men we want.
Prabhupāda: ...your devatā finished. But your relationship with Kṛṣṇa will never finish-nityo nityānāṁ—because you are nitya, Kṛṣṇa is nitya. That relationship, we have to reestablish that relation. That is the function of the human body. If you are simply busy with this temporary nature, then you are losing time. The temporary relationship will... Just like I came here; now, tomorrow I am going. So, say, for fortnight the relation was there. Now you'll have another relation. Similarly, after this body I do not know what relation, what father, mother, I will get and what relation will be established. What community will be established I do not know. And then I will forget. Now those who are Indian, but suppose in his last birth he was Chinaman. He has forgotten. Now he's fighting for India's cause. If the Chinaman is fighting for China's cause. This is disease. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). We are ready to serve all the dayitas(?), but eternal servitude is Kṛṣṇa. That we have to establish. Then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Then, after leaving this body, he has no more to accept this material body and create another society, another family, another relationship, another atmosphere. So because we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, in Kṛṣṇa society, therefore we are dividing. Suppose one animal is born in India or in America. We don't take him as "my brother. He is also born in the same national." No. He kills it. He gives protection only to the animal with hands and legs, not to the animals who are four-legged. Because he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore his knowledge is imperfect. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are fighting between the different religions because there is no Kṛṣṇa religion, no eternal religion, temporary religion. "I am Christian," "I am Hindu ," "I am Muslim." Therefore, to solve all the problems the Kṛṣṇa consciousness: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). Take to Kṛṣṇa; everything will be solved. So they are reading Bhagavad-gītā but they do not know this. Therefore we have to preach. For thirteen years they are attending this Bhagavad-gītā class or Gītā Bhavan, but nobody knows that this is the Gītā, this is the fact. Why? (Hindi) You tell me. So Bhagavad-gita As It Is we are presenting, as it is. Then it will be nice.
Guest (1): No, that is well proved. If there is need...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So our present fighting is atheism, against atheism. They say, "There is no God. God is dead. I am God. You are God." We are fighting against these principles. So our fighting is very strong. You don't think that we are keeping idly. I have come here to fight with these atheists, you see, and we go everywhere. We are fighting with atheists all over the world. So we are meeting so many opposing elements. You see? They say, "God is dead." In America, when I first went, they were popularizing theory that "God is dead." But they again accepted and: God is not dead, but He is here with Swamiji." They accepted. So these atheistic theories, that "Everyone is God," "I am God," "you are God," "God is dead," "there is no God," "God is not person"—we are fighting against these principles. We say, "God is Kṛṣṇa. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. He is a person, and He is not dead." This is our preaching. Therefore it is a fight.
Guest (1): He is not dead. He is not dead.
Prabhupāda: How He can be dead? How you can think of like that, that God is dead? That is foolishness.
Guest (1): If you say God is dead, that means you are... that is your own ignorance.
Prabhupāda: So we are fighting against this ignorance, so many ignorance. And at the present moment so many theories and religious principles have sprung up unnecessarily. You see? But we are sticking to the principle that the only religion is to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is real religion: surrender.
Prabhupāda: Not yet.
Guest (1): And how many centers in India?
Prabhupāda: Practically, three.
Guest (1): Swami, did you come across these Brahma-kumaris? They preach something else.
Prabhupāda: That is something else. Everyone knows it.
Guest (1): Once they... I was in ... So they were passing through, teaching some Kṛṣṇa or something, and their Bhagavad-gita was something else.
Prabhupāda: That is going on. (break) There may be musical performance but here it is by the pure devotees. That is different thing. Now, here don't you see in the Gītā Bhavan? When others perform kīrtana nobody takes part. And they cannot continue that kīrtana more than five minutes. But we can continue our kīrtana for five hours without any...
Haṁsadūta: If we stayed there for five hours everyone would chant. (indistinct conversation)
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, mahāmantra they can also do, but it will not be effective because they are not pure. Here is the secret. We have... Our devotees, they are anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (Brs. 1.1.11), they have no other business than to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. They perform kīrtana to take something from Kṛṣṇa. Everyone goes to some dharma-saṁsthāna just to take something. But our proposition is to give everything for Kṛṣṇa and that is far different.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...a bona fide spiritual master. Bona fide spiritual master means who carries out the order of higher authorities. Otherwise he is not spiritual master. Anyone who manufactures his own process of religion, that is rascaldom. dharmāṁ tu sakṣād bhagavat-praṇitam (SB 6.3.19). Just like lawyer, representative of the law, means who carries the order of the supreme executive. He is lawyer. Similarly, a spiritual master means who carries the order of superior authority. We are carrying the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa taught this Bhagavad-gītā, and He has said that "Anyone who will preach this confidential message of Bhagavad-gītā, he is very dear to Me."
Guest (1): (indistinct) ...and believers in Sai Baba and other we believe in an incorporeal God, nirākāra. So if Kṛṣṇa as Rāma or any other deity or devata, one who was definitely a superior ātman, no doubt about it, but Paramātman is all other religions' God, if something incorporeal is there, without referring to the...
Prabhupāda: Who says, "incorporeal"? Who says?
Guest (1): It is scripture. (?)
Prabhupāda: No, no. Who says, "incorporeal"?
Guest (1): Śiva-liṅga. You find it all over India, that, a summary of everything, that incorporeal form, jyotir-rūpa, incorporeal. Jyotir-liṅga, the Hindu svarūpa.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You are bringing something else besides Bhagavad-gītā. Just try to understand. We are preaching... This International Society for Krishna Consciousness, we are preaching...
Prabhupāda: That's all... That we understand very nicely. It is not that I have to learn from you. We know it very well. But you should know that we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā. So this jyotir-liṅga, all these theories, they are not in the Bhagavad-gītā. It may be in other literature, but we are particularly interested in preaching Bhagavad-gītā. Because Bhagavad-gītā is wrongly preached all over the world by nonsense commentation, we want to rectify it. Therefore our society is specially named "Krishna conscious."
Guest (1): What is wrongly preached about Gītā?
Prabhupāda: Wrong... Just like yesterday I went that Gītā Samītī. There is a lamp. Why there is a lamp instead of Kṛṣṇa? Why there is a lamp? Kṛṣṇa is a lamp? And it is Bhagavad...
Guest (1): I don't know...
Prabhupāda: You do not know. Therefore I say this is wrongly preaching. Why in the place of Kṛṣṇa there is a lamp? Does Kṛṣṇa say?
Guest (1): Lamp has been with us for more than... In our mandira...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. (Hindi?) Kṛṣṇa is also there.
Guest (1): They didn't put the picture.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means you have not understood Kṛṣṇa. Therefore your, this so-called Gītā society is not bona fide. At least even in ordinary feature, suppose if there is political meeting, you keep Gandhi, this photo, Jawaharlal Nehru's photo because they are the political leaders. You are preaching Bhagavad-gītā, Gītā Samītī, and there is not a single picture of Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): There is little misunderstanding, that Gītā Jayantī is for...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all answer me this question. Then you go to Gītā Jayantī. That, your Samītī is Gītā Samītī and there is not a single picture of Kṛṣṇa. Yes.
Guest (1): We don't know about that one.
Prabhupāda: You were not there present? Oh. That's not... I think you were present.
Guest (2): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: This is misguided.
Guest (1): In that case, you will have to satisfy everybody.
Prabhupāda: I am satisfying everybody. I am preaching that. But it is not possible... I am preaching in Europe. Christians, Mohammedans, Jews, they are surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. So I am doing my duty.
Guest (1): If I would be permitted, I would very humbly submit that...
Prabhupāda: You may not. You have not to surrender, you may bring some argument, but where I am preaching, they are surrendering.
Guest (1): You are doing a very wonderful work, there is no doubt about it, but the thing is that...
Prabhupāda: But you do not like that wonderful work.
Guest (1): ...judging duty of what we are doing, this is somebody else and not we ourself.
Prabhupāda: Now... What you... My point is that our society is clearly giving you the indication that we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest (1): Every society has taken...
Prabhupāda: So that's all right. If you like this Kṛṣṇa philosophy, you are welcome. Otherwise you leave.
Prabhupāda: Therefore... Yes. So that, that... Now that satisfaction, I cannot satisfy for your whims.
Guest (2): It is not a whim...
Prabhupāda: Now, one thing is that I am preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you talk on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you can ask me.
Guest (1): Yesterday you said in our nice gathering, I remember, that we have to rise above body consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is in the Gītā.
Guest (2): And we have to be soul conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa, yes. Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (2): Surrender to Kṛṣṇa, not surrender to all who...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We are saying not "Surrender unto me." We say, always saying, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Therefore the same word. I am not saying that "I have become Kṛṣṇa. I have become God. You surrender to me." We are preaching, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. So we are not speaking differently from Kṛṣṇa. You try to understand. We are saying... Suppose if I say, "Give me a glass of water," and if you say, "Oh, give Swamiji immediately a glass of ...," the same thing.
Guest (2): Kṛṣṇa also says in Gītā that...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you try to understand this, that Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ: (BG 18.66) "only unto Me."
Guest (3): "I am the only one." Sarva-dharmān...
Prabhupāda: Again you are speaking. I am talking with him. Again you are speaking. No, no. I cannot answer in that way. Let him talk. No, no. You stopped me. Let him talk. Otherwise it is not possible. You put some question; he puts some question. It is not possible. Now Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Now what do you say? He is very proud?
Prabhupāda: But then He doesn't say. You say, "If you follow me." Now it is your discretion to follow Him or not to follow Him. Kṛṣṇa said this to Arjuna. That does not mean everyone of the world, like Arjuna, surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Anyone, if he says, even Kṛṣṇa, or God, says, it is not that everyone follows that. That independence you have got. But our philosophy is that Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me," and we are imploring, we are begging persons, that "You please surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Now it is your discretion. Whether you surrender to Kṛṣṇa or Lord Śiva, that is your discretion. But our preaching method is we are trying to preach in the world, "Please surrender to Kṛṣṇa." That is our position.
Guest (4): Then he is not following the guru.
Prabhupāda: No. My position is simply repeating. That's all. My position is.
Guest (2): So we want understanding more than mere tape recorder.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you may be tape... But that is my position because I have been authorized in that way, that "Anyone who preaches this confidential subject matter, he is My dear." So I have nothing to learn, what is sama-darśi. I have my position...
Guest (4): No, blind following and open-eyed following, I say it is all right. We can read the book. We can read the verses, translation, Hindi translation. But that is not understanding.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is not understanding, I understand. But I am understanding from my teacher, just like I told you, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya. There are so many stalwart teachers, practically whole Hindu community.
Guest (6): But every successive teacher has added some interpretations of the knowledge, no?
Prabhupāda: First of all let him be successor.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or both. You might get both.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen, they have spoken like that. Because the patient will think, "Oh, I take injection, I'll be very quickly cured." He will canvass like that. Because if he gives a bottle of medicine, that will not be very costly. But injection in his hand, he'll (have) at least five rupees, that much. So he'll canvass like that, "What kind of treatment you want, injection or ordinary medicine." So he'll say, "Sir, best medicine I want." "Then you take injection." That's all. It is a fact that the whole human civilization is a society of cheaters and cheated. That's all. Any field. mayaiva vyavaharite. The whole world in this Kali-yuga: mayaiva vyavaharite. Vyavaharite means ordinary dealings, there will be cheating. Ordinarily, there will be cheating. Daily affairs. Not to speak of very great things. Ordinary dealings, there will be cheating. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, mayaiva vyavahari. The sooner you get out of this scene is better. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long you live, you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and preach Kṛṣṇa's glories, and that's all. Otherwise, you should know that this is a dangerous place. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ (SB 10.14.58). In every step there is danger.
Mālatī: This lecture was recorded in Gorakhpur, U.P., India, on the evening of Feb. 14, 1970 (end)
Prabhupāda: He never surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. I wrote him letter. "Mahatma Gandhi, you have got so much influence. You just preach the gospel of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. Now we have attained svarāj. You don't be in politics." But he was still in politics after attainment of svarāj. And his assistants became disgusted because he was interfering, and therefore he was killed. And that is open secret. If he would have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, "All right. Now I have worked for svarāj. My people have got svarāj. Now let me work for Kṛṣṇa,"... He never did that. You cannot say that he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He should have taken immediately sannyāsa and preached Bhagavad-gītā if he was actually surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. What did he do for Kṛṣṇa? We have to know from practical point of view. I'll tell you another story about Mahatma Gandhi. My Guru Mahārāja invited him in our maṭha, Mahatma Gandhi. So Mahatma Gandhi inquired... The, my godbrothers went to invite him. "What you are doing in your maṭha?" They replied that "We are worshiping Lord Kṛṣṇa." So he inquired, "Are you pulling on charka?" They said, "No sir," He said, "Charka is my God. If there is no charka, I am not going there." He said like that.
Prabhupāda: Now, amongst these Purāṇas, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is called the Mahā-purāṇa.
Prof. Kotovsky: Mahā-purāṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have translated in English the full, with the original Sanskrit text, its transliteration, an English equivalent for each word, then translation, and then purport, explanation of the verse. In this way there are 18,000's of verses in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And the ācāryas, the great saintly sages who are the preachers of this Bhāgavatam throughout India, their opinion is that it is the ripened fruit of the Vedic desire tree. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam (SB 1.1.3). And it is accepted by all, I mean, Indian scholars, and especially Lord Caitanya, He preached this Bhāgavata. So we have got that, complete in English translation. If you want to see some of them, we can show you.
Prof. Kotovsky: It seems to me that in the Moscow and Leningrad libraries we have nearly all major texts of ancient Indian culture, beginning from Vedas, original text in Sanskrit. For instance, we have in Lenin Library nearly six or eight editions of...
Prabhupāda: (Aside:) You have not brought any books? Eh?
Prof. Kotovsky: ...Manu-smṛti.
Prabhupāda: You have not brought any books? Bhāgavata?
Prof. Kotovsky: ...because of influx of refugees from Bangladesh.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But we had our saṅkīrtana festival for ten days, and people participated very wonderfully. We... Our gathering was not less than thirty thousand people daily, and they are so much interested in hearing about our... Lecture things, we are lecturing from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. We are... Our preaching method is on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So people are responding from every part of the world, especially the American boys. They are especially interested. And England also, and Germany, and France. From here I shall go to Paris. There we have got center. What is the name of that place? Paris? Recently they have taken.
Śyāmasundara: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Recently they have changed the...?
Śyāmasundara: Oh. In some suburb, Fontenay Rose, Fontenay aux Rose.
Prof. Kotovsky: Ah, near Paris?
Prabhupāda: Yes
Viṣṇujana: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī should be always preaching. Parivrājakācārya. Four stages of sannyāsa: kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājaka, and paramahaṁsa. In the beginning... Because according to Vedic civilization everyone has to take sannyāsa at a certain age. So as a matter of routine if he takes sannyāsa... Just like this old man I was asking that "Now you have children grown up, why don't you take sannyāsa?" But he is hesitating. Nobody likes, because sannyāsa life is difficult. So first there is kuṭīcaka means he gives up the connection of the family life, takes sannyāsa officially, but he is not accustomed to maintain himself independently; therefore, he goes out of the village and makes a cottage and lives there. And the foodstuff, the home supply, that is called kuṭīca. Kuṭī means cottage. Then when he is little practiced, then he says family members that "Don't bring foodstuffs. I shall go to every village man and ask something for my food. I shall depend on them, not on you." That is called bahūdaka. Bahū means many. Not accepting food from one place but from many. Then when he is prac... Because first problem is problem, when he is practiced, "Now Kṛṣṇa is giving us food, so why shall I remain in one place? Let me preach." That is called parivrājakācārya, when he is preaching. Parivrājaka. Parivrājaka means wandering all over. Then when he is experienced, when his preaching is done, he can sit down in one place. At that time, he can chant simply Hare Kṛṣṇa like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. And if he imitates from the very beginning, he will be spoiled, that's all. Because in the beginning, if I take Hare Kṛṣṇa, then it is (indistinct). (laughter) Don't do this. Always be busy. First stage, last stage. When one is paramahaṁsa just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, three hundred thousand times, no eating unless he finishes his chanting. No eating, no sleeping. That is another thing. "I shall eat so much, I shall sleep so much, and I shall do nothing, simply chanting." No. That is not recommended by my Guru Mahārāja.
But preaching is our most important business. People are suffering for want of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So as representative of Kṛṣṇa, it is our duty to enlighten them, and we should accept all kinds of... But there is no difficulty. Where is the difficulty? I think we are living better than anyone in the world. (laughter) Where is the difficulty? Simply we have to be very sincere devotee of Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Everything Kṛṣṇa will supply. Everything. So in that position, go on preaching. Don't be tottering. You have taken a great responsibility; go on executing it. Don't fight amongst yourselves for petty things. Go on, advance. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees offer obeisances) Now we are going to have a great ceremony in India, Māyāpur. They have got... I have purchased one land. I took contribution 25,000 from Birla. I wanted 100,000, he gave me 25,000. That's all right. So with that money I purchased one land. So it is just to be developed. The foundation stone, cornerstone laying down. In India we require another..., altogether at least one hundred men, Americans. So contribute some men from each and every center. We have got fifty centers..., how many centers now?
Prabhupāda: That I tell you, not immediately. But our main business is preaching. Either do it as a gṛhastha or as sannyāsī, it does not matter. This is only formality. The real work is preaching. Just like Rāmānanda Rāya was a gṛhastha and Lord Caitanya was a sannyāsī, but He was taking lesson from Rāmānanda Rāya. This is Caitanya-līlā. He is a sannyāsī and He is God Himself, He is taking lesson from a grhastha who is His disciple. So the real thing is preaching must go on sincerely. This gṛhastha, vānaprastha, these are material regulative principles. Real life is Kṛṣṇa's service. That we have to do, that's all. So whatever position is suitable for you, you accept. You remain as a gṛhastha, remain as sannyāsī, remain as brahmacārī as it becomes suitable for you, but preach. That is the main business. If you lacking in preaching and become a sannyāsī, what is the use of sannyāsa? Better... A gṛhastha is better. Just like I asked Gaurasundara to go to Hawaii. He was just a boy, but he did. Now there is center, nice. So I'm very glad. So you are also doing that. It doesn't matter whether gṛhastha. Karandhara is gṛhastha. But we have to serve Kṛṣṇa very nicely. That is our main criteria. So we have to see in what position I can serve better Kṛṣṇa. That is our policy. Otherwise, either gṛhastha or sannyāsī, there's no difference. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,
kibā vipra, kibā śūdra, nyāsī kene naya
yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya
Preaching work is for the guru. So Kṛṣṇa... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says it doesn't matter whether he is a gṛhastha or vānaprastha or a brāhmaṇa or śūdra. It doesn't matter. If he knows what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness and preaches, then he is guru. That's all. So we have to become like that. It doesn't matter what we are, but whether I am preaching nicely. That is required. But still there is some regulative principles like sannyāsī and brahmacārī will be like this, gṛhastha will be like this. That is the external. But the main business is preaching. So you have got good opportunity, you have got good name, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is being appreciated. So live very cautiously and preach very cautiously and seriously, then in this one life you will become successful, go back to home, back to Godhead. One life.
Mohsin Hassan: Oh, yes. Beginning to end.
Prabhupāda: So it is the book to understand Kṛṣṇa, but these people, unscrupulous people, even great scholars, they tried to explain something, taking advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā. Instead of understanding Kṛṣṇa, they wanted to present something of their concoction through the Bhagavad-gītā. So this movement was already there since five thousand years. But these, I may say, the foolish scholars, they suppressed. Caitanya Mahāprabhu revived. Five hundred years ago he revived. So from Caitanya Mahāprabhu time we are trying to revive this movement in different way, different way. About two hundred years ago, hundred and fifty years ago, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura revived it, and then about fifty years ago, my Guru Maharaja, he revived it, and he also ordered me that "You go and preach this philosophy to the Western world." So under his order I came, and I presented Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, as you have read. So the acceptance has been very marvelous, because the things are presented in pure form, so it has acted very nice. Otherwise it is not a movement that I have manufactured something. No. The movement was already there. I am simply presenting as it is. That is my service. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because our government, India government would not allow to take money to go outside. So somehow or other I got the P-form sanction, and one big shipping company, they allowed me free passage. So I came here with great difficulty. Of course I was very comfortably situated on the sea, but still, because I am not accustomed, I got sea sickness. So the travel was very miserable. Still I came. Then for one year, I was going here and there, there was no fixed-up position, and then in 1...9, I came here in 1965, September, then 1966, July, I incorporated the society and started my preaching in a storefront, and... Second Avenue. And then gradually the students came and it developed, one branch after. Now we have got sixty branches, and our expenditure is very heavy. According to Indian calculation it is about 700,000's of rupees. We are paying every rent, we have got in each center not less than twenty-five devotees, up to hundred, hundred and fifty. So it is going on by Kṛṣṇa's grace.
Mohsin Hassan: Now what do you expect from your disciple, basic thing?
Prabhupāda: They will also preach, just as I am preaching. They'll preach the same thing. As I am preaching according to my spiritual master's instruction, similarly they will preach according to my instruction.
Sister Mary: I've been told something about it, the other day.
Prabhupāda: We are preaching God consciousness. God is God. God is neither Christian, nor Hindu, nor Muslim. God is God. So everyone should be God conscious. That is our movement. We are preaching love of Godhead. So it doesn't matter what type of religion one is following. We simply want to see that he has love for God. Our bhāgavata-dharma defines: that is first-class religion following which one becomes a lover of God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religion if by following that one becomes a lover of God. It doesn't matter what religion he is following, but the test will be whether he has become a lover of God. That is our...
Sister Mary: So you don't try to convert people from other religions.
Prabhupāda: No.
Sister Mary: One can be Christian and...
Prabhupāda: Anyway. We are teaching how to love God. That's all.
Prabhupāda: That says, or... Everyone says different way. Mammon or dog is expression in the faith. That is the test. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says:
- yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa
- cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam
- śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ
- govinda viraheṇa me
Yugāyitaṁ, "Every moment is just like twelve years." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, "crying like torrents of rain." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ. "Oh, I find everything is vacant." Govinda viraheṇa me, "without God, without..." This is an ideal picture. So another test is, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhava-viraktir anyatra syāt. If one has become lover of God, naturally he will be detached to material enjoyment. Love of God and love of material world cannot go together. Either this or that. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He never advised to, for economic development, for industrial development, or this and that. So many things. He sacrificed everything for God. That is one test, that "Here is a lover of God." He was punished that "You, you stop this preaching," but he did not. So that is love of God. He sacrificed everything. That is love of God. So the ideal is Lord Jesus Christ, and the follower must be, at least to some extent, to that point. That is test. So we say that you follow any religious path. That doesn't matter. We want to see whether you are lover of God. That is our propaganda. And if one is serious about loving God, it doesn't matter in which way he'll develop that dormant love. It doesn't matter. Just like one, a person wants to be a very nice student of mathematics. It doesn't matter from which university he takes the degree. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. He can go. Just like students are coming from one country to another, one country to another. Because his aim is education. So if one is serious about loving God, then it doesn't matter in which way he learns that art. It doesn't matter. He won't discriminate, "Oh, I must learn this art from this university." No. Any university. It doesn't matter. So our principle is that we are teaching love of God. So actually, those who are after God, they are coming. It doesn't matter whether he is in America, in Russia, in Africa, or Canada. It doesn't matter. They are coming. And method is simple. Chant the holy name of God. If you have got any name, you chant. We preach this. We don't say that you chant Kṛṣṇa. If you have got any name, God's name, then chant that.
Prabhupāda: But Jesus Christ never said that He is God. He said "Son of God." We have no objection to chant the name, holy name of Jesus Christ. We have no objection. But we are preaching that "Chant the holy name of God." If you haven't got any name of God, then you chant our conception of name of God, Kṛṣṇa. We don't say Kṛṣṇa.
- nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis
- tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ
- etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavān mamāpi
- durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ
Lord Caitanya says, in each and every name of God... There are many names of God. But in each and every name of God, the full potency of God is there. So... And there is no hard and fast rule for chanting the holy name of God. Anywhere, at anytime, anyone, in any circumstances, he can chant. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says "My Lord, You are so merciful that in this age..." Why...? Not in this age. Every age. "You are always in full potency in Your name. And I can associate with You simply by chanting Your holy name. But I am so unfortunate, I have no attraction for that." A simple thing, to chant the name. God has become so kind, "You simply chant My name." But I am so unfortunate, I have no attraction for that. Now, these people are being taught... They have got this bead bag. I have also got. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare.
Sister Mary: We see that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So what you want more? Therefore let us cooperate. Don't think that it is against Christianism or it is sectarian. Let us cooperate fully. Jointly, let us preach all over the world, "Chant the holy name of God." Let us join together. That should be the real purpose of devotees of God. Here is... They are preaching love of God. Why should we be envious about them? It doesn't matter. We don't say that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you have got name of God, you chant it. That's all. But we are preaching this cult, that chant the holy name of God. That's all. So what objection there may be from other sects? But they are envious. Because the younger generation are taking to it, so they are envious. Why they are envious? We wanted to purchase one church, and the priest in charge said that "I shall better burn this church. I shall not give them." Just see. Why? What we have done wrong? This is the very statement. "Better I shall burn this church, but I won't give them." Then? What we have done?
Sister Mary: Don't worry about that.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't worry. That is another thing. But there are so many vacant churches. They are for sale. But as soon as we go, they refuse. "No."
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Everywhere. In Bombay, everywhere we go, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." In Montreal. They joke, they'll clap, but they'll chant. And that is wanted. I want to see that everyone is chanting. And if chanting has effect, then either he's chanting jokingly or seriously it will have the effect. Fire, if you touch either jokingly or seriously or cautiously, it will act. So our request is that you also preach this cult. Let us cooperate. The whole world is suffering for want of God consciousness. So it is the duty of all religious sects to teach this simple art of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa or any other name which you have got. That's all.
Revatīnandana: They have got this prayer, "Lord Jesus have mercy on me, a miserable sinner." And she was showing me they have a, almost like japa beads. Show him.
Sister Mary: You see, here.
Revatīnandana: They're almost like japa mālā.
Sister Mary: We do it in some, together, in the orthodox church. And we take turns doing two hundred.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Prabhupāda: (people coming in) Oh. You come forward. Give him seat. Śivānanda, you come... You can sit there. Yes. So the God consciousness can be awakened if you stop sinful activities. Otherwise, it is impossible. You go on preaching for millions of years; there will be no God consciousness. There will be no God consciousness. That is the... in Bhagavad-gītā. (people sitting down) Why? You can come here, this side.
Haṁsadūta: You can sit here.
Prabhupāda: Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ (BG 7.28). One who has finished sinful activities, he can be engaged in God consciousness. One who is engaged in sinful activities, he cannot. Devil citing scripture. A devīl cannot cite scripture. Angel can cite scripture. And according to our ācāryas, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he says that "Don't hear scriptures from the devīl." Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtaṁ śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyam." If a devīl's preaching about God, don't hear." If you say, "God is pure, so let me hear about God. It doesn't matter whether he is devīl or angel. It doesn't matter." No. The argument is sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. Just like milk is very nourishing food, but if it is touched by the lips, by the tongue of a serpent, it becomes poison. Sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. You cannot bring the milk which is touched by the serpent's tongue. So we should receive knowledge of God, message of God, from a person who is not a devīl. Then it will be effective. Otherwise, it will act as poison. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's principle is āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. He first of all behaves himself, and then he preaches. So if the preacher is sinful, how he can deliver other sinful men by his so-called preaching. That is not possible. He must be pure, he must be sinless. Then his preaching will be effective. But in all conditions, if we, with faith and love we chant the holy name of God, we shall become gradually purified. There is no, I mean to say, cause of anxiety. Anyone who will chant this holy name, he'll be purified.
Revatīnandana: People outside, she says, they find it difficult even to believe in God now.
Prabhupāda: No, therefore propaganda is required. They are rascal fools, but we are not rascal and fools. We must preach.
Sister Mary: Well, you can't preach until you are purified.
Prabhupāda: Eh? No, purification will go on. Suppose you are... Just like we are holding, what I... I began this propaganda in the Western countries. I was sitting in a park, Thompkinson's? What is that?
Revatīnandana: Thompkins Square.
Prabhupāda: Thompkins Square in New York. I was simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they used to gather. And gradually, they became my disciples, students. So I began in this way, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare... For three hours, from two to five. That's all. And they are still doing that. They are going on the street. This Hare Kṛṣṇa, the same thing, is going on. They are being arrested sometimes. They are being harassed. But still, they don't give up. They chant. This boy in Germany, I sent in Germany. He sat down on the footpath and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This boy. Practically, he started my European movement, he started first.
Revatīnandana: To live in this temple you have to take up fully our principles and take up our activities of preaching work and like that. But to practice these things outside, even in one's own religion, without changing the basis of his belief, he can simply devote himself to God in these ways. And if one is young and not so attached, he can take it up fully. He can take it up in part, or he can take it up... And religious system, there are names of God. You simply chant it.
Guest (2): (indistinct) an associate member if you like.
Sister Mary: I've only just (indistinct) asking about it.
Revatīnandana: Everyone is a member...
Guest (2): If you're a member, you have to practice the whole thing obviously. (break)
Revatīnandana: Everyone is a member of this movement. But some people have forgotten. Our movement is to remind them. Every living being is by nature a servant of God. Now people are forgetting. We want them to remember. We don't care for some difference of technique in worship. We want people to take up the business of chanting the names of God.
Prabhupāda: Just as in the same family some of the sons have forgotten father and some of them remember, but both of them member of the same family. Because he has forgotten his father does not mean that he is not son. He still remains. So actually, everyone is a member of God's family. That is our vision. Not only human being, but animals also. We therefore consider animals also brothers. We don't support animal killing.
Kulaśekhara: Yes. Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Then how you can take sannyāsa? It is a very great responsibility. (break) There is no need of taking sannyāsa. If you are sincere in preaching you can do in this dress. Where is the harm? Simply by changing, taking a rod, you'll not become God immediately. You have to work, steadily. What is there in sannyāsa? Do you mean to say taking a rod one becomes sannyāsa? Sannyāsa means you must be sacrificing everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is sannyāsa. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). Sa sannyāsī, he's sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti. You went to Israel but again came back. Why? What was the difficulty?
Kulaśekhara: Well, there's no activity there Prabhupāda. I got attacked on the street. I got very sick and I was attacked on the street when I was on saṅkīrtana.
Prabhupāda: Do you like to go to Africa? It is warm country.
Kulaśekhara: Yes Prabhupāda. That would be nice.
Prabhupāda: So you can go. You can go. And you know Deity... (break) ...and if it is sufficiently left, then she doesn't require further. Otherwise add something. But she'll take after the husband. My mother was doing. Yes. The remnants of foodstuff left by the husband will be taken by the wife. That means if the husband does not eat, she'll not eat. So those things are now dream only. (laughs) Impossible. Just like small child, If he follows the father, catching the hand of the father, she is always safe, he is always safe. Now your so-called independence has spoiled the social life. You know he was married. Where she is now?
Prabhupāda: Must be.
Revatīnandana: That's right. In preaching, in the movement, that there is no diversity between the jīva souls who are living...
Prabhupāda: But there is diversity. Why not?
Revatīnandana: And the brahma-jyotir. They are saying...
Prabhupāda: Brahmajyoti is combination of jīva soul. And brahma-jyotir is emanation from Kṛṣṇa. Brahmajyoti is coming from Kṛṣṇa. This is a function. Heat is coming constantly, incessantly, from the fire. But still, heat is not fire. You cannot say heat is fire. Fire is far away.
Revatīnandana: That's right. So the constitutional nature of the entities that naturally form brahma-jyotir is the same as the constitutional nature of the jīvātmās that are forming the living entities?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is comparison, a small spiritual spark. That's all. We are spark. So long it does not develop a body... That body is also the same. So it remains as spiritual spark. But because it is spirit, it cannot remain in that impersonal stage. He wants to enjoy. So, so long he has forgotten, he develops a body which is called matter.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Visit. Keep them alive. "Simply because we have opened a center, the business is finished." No. You must keep them alive. Alive means this morning class must go on, evening class must go on, there must be regular program for prasāda distribution. Busy. That is alive.
Revatīnandana: And they must also study your books.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, so many Indian temples or churches, they think, "The church is there; everything is finished." No. Why people are losing interest in church? There is no preaching. Neither do they know what is preaching. They simply think that "This building will attract people." So they are now on sale.
Revatīnandana: In Calcutta it was like that. Everywhere we attract people with the Deity worship, but we hold them with the lectures.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Come on. So how you were allowed to enter?
Śivānanda: Oh, it was all right. No difficulty. No difficulty.
Prabhupāda: Last time you had difficulty.
Journalist (1): But it must be very difficult for you to...
Prabhupāda: No. It is difficult because this civilization is demons. Just like India. India welcomed everyone. But the result was they occupied. Just like your English people. They were welcome. Lord Clive was welcome, but he intrigued to occupy India. And his statue is worshiped here. Because what is his credit? He made an intrigue, illegally entered India and made occupation. That is his credit and he is worshiped. That is Western civilization.
Journalist (1): That's really what I was going to ask you. You must find life difficult preaching the values of brotherhood in a society...
Prabhupāda: Natural brotherhood. Just like in a family, naturally, a father has got ten sons, they are brothers. But one son is intriguing how to take the whole property. That is going on. That is demonic. If every one of the father's sons thinks that "Father is one and father's property equally should be distributed." But no. One cunning son is simply intriguing how to occupy the whole estate for me. That is going on all over the world.
Journalist (1): How do you stop that?
Prabhupāda: By Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Allahabad? Conch, from conchshell? It is especially used in Bengal. A woman... that is an auspicious sign that she is with her husband, to have conchshell bangle. Śaṅkha-sari. A woman dressed śaṅkha and sari, śaṅkha-sari. They don't require any other ornament. One nice sari and śaṅkha. That is Indian conception of woman having husband. That is distinction between widow and a woman having husband. Widow will not accept sari. All finished. Vedic culture, widow should finish her life after having the husband. Saha-gamana. Satī. Yes. (break) ...have got enough to preach. People will like it.
Devotee: Yes, I think so. Yes. I think we have enough.
Prabhupāda: They'll like. Enough ingredients to preach. Simply one has to become intelligent how to express. The, what is called, outlines of thought are already there. You read one line, you can speak half an hour. They are so full of meaning. Provided you can express the meanings. So we are not reading all the lines. We are going quickly from one śloka to another. Otherwise, if we explained each line of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... Just like my Guru Mahārāja explained the first śloka for three months in Dacca. (break) ...after this verse, he explained for three months. Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained ātmārāma-śloka in sixty-four ways. That is described in Teachings of Lord Caitanya. Sixty-four ways. Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya explained in nine ways. He did not touch on those nine ways. Setting aside those nine ways, personally He explained in sixty-four ways. Formerly such scholars were there, such religious persons were there. Therefore people were happy. What these rascals speak? Now there is Freud's philosophy and Darwin's theory.
Dr. Weir: From the Sanskrit?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṭa is the popular word for Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is always anointed with tilaka. We follow this tilaka, Kṛṣṇa, anointed, with this sandal pulp. So, so far I think, there is some very nearest relationship with this Christian and "Kṛṣṇia". Kṛṣṭa means love, love of Godhead or love. We are preaching also the same philosophy. Try to... Not try. The love of Kṛṣṇa is there in everyone's heart, but it is covered. And being covered, it is misplaced. We are loving our society, loving this body, loving our family, loving our kinsmen, or loving internationally human society. But this love is actually perverted reflection of real love of God. Because the love is not placed in the real place. Therefore we are being frustrated in love. Just like in our country Mahatma Gandhi, he loved his country very much. But at the last moment the countrymen shot him down. He was shot down by his own countrymen. The love was paid by (sic:) shooting him and he lost his life. There are many instances.
Dr. Weir: Well, we would say, using the English language properly, that's a misuse of the word.
Prabhupāda: But, generally, if I'm not in perfect knowledge, if I guide you, that is, according to Vedic version that is cheating. You must be confident of the knowledge perfectly. Then if you deliver the knowledge that is right. Just like our position is that we say what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is God. So we say what Kṛṣṇa says. We don't say anything which does not Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa does not say. Therefore you are confident that we are delivering the right message. We don't manufacture our own philosophy or words. We simply say, "Kṛṣṇa says, 'sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).' " Kṛṣṇa, God, says that you simply surrender unto Me, I take charge of you. We are preaching the same philosophy. That you surrender to God and you'll become happy because God takes charge of you. We don't manufacture our word. That is not cheating.
Prabhupāda: You cannot (indistinct). God is the spirit and you are spirit. Therefore you have to take lessons from God. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated there mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke (BG 15.7), that these living entities they are My part and parcels. So, because part and parcel of God, therefore the part and parcel must be active on account of God. That is real life. Why stop activity? That is real life.
Dr. Weir: I fear Swami, if I may say so, without disrespect, that in some ways you're preaching to the converted and you only make it more muddled to me by giving analogies, don't you feel that at times?
Mensa Member: Yeah, I think the Swami's used to, probably used to talking to people that need this...
Prabhupāda: When there is a truth spoken by God that living entities are My part and parcel, mamaiva. Why shall I not give the analogy? How do part and parcel acts? I must give analogy. Otherwise how they can understand?
Dr. Weir: It's like some people...
Prabhupāda: For understanding analogy must be there. Analogy is created for understanding.
Guest: In that way I was saying that we talk more of spiritualism here. I don't know whether they talk it in other countries or not. But we do here more.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Other countries all they have got high respect for India as spiritual land. But we are killing, our present government and so-called leaders, killing that state. This is regrettable. They could hold this Bhārata-varṣa to the topmost summit all over the India if after independence they would have organizedly preached Bhagavad-gītā and the Vedic culture. That is my mission. Now whatever you may think of Bhārata-varṣa, outside, India is known as a poor, poorest country, because our ministers go there to beg.
Guest (2): Prabhupāda, you have said that, really, what I read this morning, that if (indistinct) comes, we have to fight. Did you say to the people...
Prabhupāda: Yes. They asked me; I said.
Guest (2): That's what we want to hear now, you know.
Prabhupāda: So these messages are very nice?
Devotee (3): What did you say to them, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: What was the language?
Reporter: ...is only by Hindu...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Hinduism is a foreign word, given by the Muslim. We don't find any word "Hindu" in the Vedic literature. Why do you call Hinduism? We are not preaching Hinduism. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Reporter: By such a social system, social...
Prabhupāda: That is, that you satisfy (indistinct). But this is a broad Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is broader than any system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not preaching. We don't go to preach that "Oh, we are preaching Hinduism." But because those who are accepting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, mostly they are Hindus, then you can call it like Hinduism. But this is not Hinduism.
Reporter: Sir, we are in illusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is an illusory...
Reporter: Not illusory. I don't know how far Lalaji will go with you.
Prabhupāda: Lalaji is already with me! (laughter)
Reporter: (laughter) (reporter makes jokes) (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Give them prasāda.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Reporter: Have you been to Russia (indistinct) and (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Reporter: They allowed you to preach?
Prabhupāda: So why not? We are not afraid of anybody.
Reporter: Because they have their own (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: They may have, but the public is not their own. Public is different.
Reporter: That's all right. But you've got to get a visa. How do you... How can you get?
Prabhupāda: Then one Russian professor invited me already.
Reporter: Ah. And to receive visa. Did you give some...
Prabhupāda: Professor Kotovsky.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Birla temple is speaking that Kṛṣṇa is kalpanā.
Guest (2): Kalpanā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, kalpanā. Māyāvādī theory is brahma nirākāra, so... (Hindi) You can imagine that God is so insignificant that you can imagine His form. This dangerous theory is going on in India. God is so insignificant that you can imagine at your whims whatever you like. Ramakrishna Mission is also preaching this, and now this big, big sannyāsī, they also preaching this. God is a subject matter for, of my imagination, He is so insignificant. You have seen the paper?
Guest (1): No. I haven't read this particular statement.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Rayananda(?), can you get that paper, Hindustan?
Guest: Quite surprising. He's quite a learned scholar.
Prabhupāda: The learned scholar, they have been described in Bhagavad-gītā, māyaya apahṛta-jñānā asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because they have taken this view that God is impersonal, He has no form, this is āsurī. Then māyaya apahṛta-jñānā. Therefore, however learned they may be, māyā takes away their knowledge. Māyaya apahṛta-jñānā asurī-bhāvam āśr... That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) The Absolute Truth, that is subjected to be imagined by me. I am a tiny soul. And if a learned sannyāsī says like that, how many thousands of people will believe in that, will be wrongly impressed? This paper will be read by thousands and millions. (Hindi) ...hodge-podge.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems that just like a mother when she is training her young child, because the child is very young and not yet very advanced in intelligence, sometimes the mother uses the method of fear to train her child. So similarly, according to the consciousness of the people the doctrine of love of God has to sometimes be preached with a little element of fear so that they'll accept it.
Prabhupāda: That creation of fearfulness may be sometimes not fact but fearfulness is there according to our actions. That everyone has got experience. Just like if you steal, then you go to jail. It is a fact. It is not a creation of fearfulness. It is a fact. If you contaminate some disease, then the typhoid or any other disease, you contaminate. So there is suffering and that is really fearfulness, that is not a false creation. So sometimes there are false creation, but actually for our misdeeds we have to suffer, that's a fact.
Devotee (4): I think if there is so much fear being preached in Christianity originally the Old Testament was the testament of the vengeful God and the New Testament was supposed to be the love of Christ. So if there is so much fear being preached it seems to be a reflection of individual consciousness more than the religion. They are preaching so much fear, it would seem to stem from their own activities, that maybe they do have this fear rather than the true reflection of the religion that Christ was teaching. He was supposedly (indistinct) to take up the sins of his disciples and to help them lead the nice life and lead them back. He said, he referred to them as his flock. So he was taking the role of a protector and yet the Christians you speak to, they talk about hanging you over hell by a thin thread that can be burnt away at any second. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee: He said the Christians... (break)
Prabhupāda: But generally the Christians they are very much confident that all of our sinful actions they have been absorbed by Lord Jesus Christ so we can do anything.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
- evaṁ madāndha utsikto
- niraṅkuśa iva dvipaḥ
- paryaṭan ratham āsthāya
- kampayann iva rodasī
- (SB 4.14.5)
So he became so strong that when he was traveling in the state, everyone was trembling. So very strong king. In this way, when he became too much powerful, then he began to preach atheism. That is the way. The rākṣasī, the demonic way is there. If a demon becomes powerful—just like nowadays it is going on—somehow or other if somebody becomes powerful, he doesn't care for the śāstric injunction or religion or God. They don't care for it. Just like there are many instances, Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, like that. So he also became like that. Then he began to order
- na yaṣṭavyaṁ na dātavyaṁ
- na hotavyaṁ dvijāḥ kvacit
- iti nyavārayad dharmaṁ
- bherī-ghoṣeṇa sarvaśaḥ
- (SB 4.14.6)
By bugle announcement. In your country, I do not know, maybe. It is here in India still existing that if some public announcement has to be done, one takes a drum or bugle, he stands in one place and bugles or beats the drum, people when gathered they announce something that "This will be done. This is the order of the king or the state." Is there any such system in England?
Śyāmasundara: He would go around and announce.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the town crier. So the town crier began to preach that "No more any sacrifice or yajña. Stop all this nonsense. No more Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." (chuckles) Yes, they... Just like in Russia we are afraid or China, yes. They will immediately arrest. So this declaration was there, public. Na yaṣṭavyaṁ na, no charity, no more charity. Just like government at the present moment, they are allowing charity still, but most of the portion of the income they take away by income tax so that one may not have any power to give in charity. So at the present moment, the government does not declare that charity is illegal, but that time is coming very soon, very soon. As soon as there will be Communist government... Our Indira Gandhi is cooperating with the Russians, and as soon as she is under the control of the Russians, gradually Communism will be introduced. People are afraid of this attempt by Indira Gandhi.
Prabhupāda: I was thinking of taking up this task long, long ago. I wrote one letter to Mahatma Gandhi that "You have got influence all over the world, and you are acknowledged a man of spiritual understanding. Now you have got svarāṭ, you better retire and take up this preaching of Bhagavad-gītā all over the world."
Guest: He was doing if from the beginning, not exclusively that, but applying the Bhagavad-gītā to everything that he was doing. He was doing it really, but you are referring to concentrated, exclusive...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: ...teaching of the doctrines and way life described in...
Prabhupāda: Sometimes I requested Dr. Radhakrishnan also...
Guest: Huh?
Prabhupāda: ...when he was vice-president.
Guest: Radhakrishnan? Nowhere in comparison with Gandhi.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: Mithyācāraḥ sa ucyate.
Guest: ...if you prematurely take sannyāsa. Therefore try and compromise the principles of sannyāsa, that is to say of renunciation with worldly action, and, I mean, performance of duty, by performing the duties without caring for the results. That is the renunciation He has preached, I have understood.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: The defects are here that way which you will confirm, I have no doubt. But the question which I put to Girirāja was whether it would not have been better if you work from inside rather than make yourself a separate cult and organization. Separate organization, once you form, becomes like a person who is born. It gets his attachment, his ego, his everything. So the separate organization, like Mr. Banu, becomes an ego. He is fond of his own attachments, of his own interest, and so the organization must be looked after. The organization should succeed. The organization should succeed better than other organizations. There is (indistinct) among organizations. So all the egotistic weaknesses apply to organizations also. Therefore I was wondering whether it would not, if you had convinced that your mission was to spread the Gītā Ācārya's teachings as to how to act with detachment and with faith in the grace of God, where you go wrong, could not be having better done without making yourself separate.
Prabhupāda: No. The thing is, when there is detachment, there must be another attachment.
Guest: Yes. To God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is required.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: Rest on seventeenth. And we will see if there is airline connection.
Prabhupāda: If airline is not possible, we will go by train or... (break) ...preach like this.
Mālatī: Haribol.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughing)
Mālatī: Jaya. It was very good meeting (?).
Prabhupāda: That for the fifty years they are here, nobody can find. Gaudīya Maṭha is known as Indian temple. That's all.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: No preaching.
Śyāmasundara: He's making publicity up there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He can take all these placards. Yes. We have got remaining placards?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: Only point is, "Make it zero. And so long you are living, enjoy as you like, because afterwards you are going to be zero. There is no responsibility. So you gratify your senses to the fullest extent." That's all. Just like, I do not know, I have never hanged, but anyone who is going to be hanged, he is offered that "Whatever you want, you can enjoy." Is that...
Prabhupāda: Guru is one, representative of Kṛṣṇa. So there are symptoms who is guru. The general symptoms are described in the Vedas. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ gurum evābhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). The first symptom is śrotriyam. Guru is in disciplic succession. One who has thoroughly heard about the Vedas through his spiritual master. This is general description. So another description is in the Bhāgavatam:
- tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta
- jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam
- śabde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ
- brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam
- (SB 11.3.21)
Generally, the guru's symptom is that he's a perfect devotee. That's all. And he's serving Kṛṣṇa by preaching His message.
Bob: Lord Caitanya, He was not a guru, He was different than guru?
Prabhupāda: He's guru.
Bob: Lord Caitanya, He was a different type of guru than you were?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Guru cannot be different types. All gurus are of one type.
Bob: But He was, was He also an incarnation at the same...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, He is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He is representing as guru.
Bob: I see.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You first of all be convinced and then try to convince others. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction is that you can do welfare for others when your life is success.
- bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
- janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
- (CC Adi 9.41)
Janma sārthaka kari. First make your life perfect, and then try to make others, preach. (break)
Bob: The devotees have said to me that without consciousness of Kṛṣṇa all the time, you cannot be happy. Without consciousness of Kṛṣṇa you cannot be happy. But at times I feel happy.
Prabhupāda: At times, not always.
Bob: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But if you be Kṛṣṇa conscious you'll feel always happy.
Prabhupāda: You are the best devotee.
Bob: (laughter) Oh, no! But see, you say, what you say..., it always, always seems right.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but...
Bob: So then you must be the best devotee.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the thing is that even the best devotee, when he preaches, he comes to the second-class devotee.
Bob: What would the best devotee be doing?
Prabhupāda: The best devotee does not preach.
Bob: What does he do?
Prabhupāda: He sees there is no need of preaching; everyone is devotee. (Bob laughs) Yes. He sees no more nondevotee, all devotee.
Yaśodānandana: Uttama-adhikārī?
Prabhupāda: Uttama-adhikārī. But while I am preaching, how can I say I am the best devotee? Just like Rādhārāṇī. She does not see anyone nondevotee. Therefore we try to approach Rādhārāṇī.
Prabhupāda: Anyone approaches Rādhārāṇī, She recommends to Kṛṣṇa, "Here is the best devotee. He's better than me." And Kṛṣṇa cannot refuse. That is best devotee. But it is not to be imitated, "I have become best devotee. Therefore I have stopped." That is... Actually, that is a different stage. So even the best devotee... Without (being) best devotee, he cannot preach actually, ācārya, but he comes to the second stage. Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca. He has the vision of dviṣat, somebody envious of God. But it is not the vision of the best devotee. Best devotee sees, "Nobody is envious to God. Everyone is better than me." Just like Caitanya-caritāmṛta author, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja. He says that "I am lowest than the worm in the stool."
Bob: Who was saying this?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa... The author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja. Purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha (CC Adi 5.205). He's not making a show, he's feeling like that, that "I am the lowest. Everyone is best, I am the lowest. Everyone is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, I am not engaged." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Oh, I have not a pinch of devotion to Kṛṣṇa. I cry to make a show. If I would have been a devotee of Kṛṣṇa I would have died long ago. I am living; that is the proof that I do not love Kṛṣṇa." That is the vision of the best devotee. He's so much absorbed in Kṛṣṇa's love that he sees, "Everything is going on; simply I am the lowest, therefore I cannot see God." That is best devotee.
Prabhupāda: You see, Kṛṣṇa says that ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). So Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can immediately take up all the sins of others and immediately make it gone. But when a living entity plays the part on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he also takes the responsibility of these sinful activities of his devotee. So to become a guru is not an easy task. You see? He has to take all the poisons and absorb. So sometimes, because he's not Kṛṣṇa, so sometimes there is some trouble. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu forbidden that "Don't make many śiṣyas, many disciples." But for preaching work we have to accept many disciples, for expanding preaching. Never mind we suffer. But that's a fact. The spiritual master has to take the responsibility of all the sinful activities of his disciples. So to make many disciple is a risky job unless he's able to assimilate all the sins. (pause) (break)... patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo. He takes responsibility for all the fallen souls. That is... That idea is in Bible. Just like Jesus Christ take all the sinful reaction of all people and sacrificed his life. That is the responsibility of spiritual master. Because he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. So Kṛṣṇa takes all responsibility. Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa, apāpa-viddham. He cannot be attacked by any sinful reaction. But a living entity may be subjected sometimes, because he's small. Big fire, small fire. On a small fire if you put some big things, (chuckling) then the fire itself may be extinguished. In the big fire, whatever you put, that's all right. Finished. The big fire can consume anything.
Bob: It is so.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should have been ashamed that "Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us. Instead of... We are continuing the sinful activities still. He asked everyone, 'Thou shall not kill,' and we are indulging in killing." And "Lord Jesus Christ will excuse us, take all the sinful reaction." This is going on. (break) ...should be very much cautious that "For my sinful actions my spiritual master will suffer. So I'll not commit a pinch of sinful action." That is the duty of the disciple. After initiation his all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, the spiritual master has to suffer. They should be sympathetic for this, that "For my sinful activities my spiritual master will suffer." (break) ...attacked with some disease it is due to the sinful activities of the disciples. Exactly like Lord Jesus Christ was crucified on account of the sinful activities of others. (break) ...forbidden, "Don't make many disciples." But we do because we are preaching. Never mind, let us suffer; still, we shall accept. (break)... question was that when I suffer it is due to my past misdeeds? Was it not?
Bob: Yes, yes, yes.
Bob: But, you see, I drink that to prevent disease.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So long you are in the material world, what is physical laws, you cannot neglect that. Just like if you go to a jungle, there is tiger. It is known that it will attack you. Why should you voluntarily go and be attacked? It is not that a devotee should take physical risk so long he has got some physical body. It is not a challenge to the physical laws: "Oh, I have become a devotee. I challenge everything." That is foolishness. Anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ. Viṣaya, these physical necessities, the devotee is advised to accept the necessities of life without any attachment. Physical law is take the boiled water, but if boiled water is not available, does it mean he'll not drink water? If it is not available, you drink ordinary water. (break) We take Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. But while in touring, in hotels sometimes we have to take some food in the hotel. Does it mean, "Oh, I do not take any foodstuff from the hotel, I shall starve"? If I starve, then I'll be weak, I cannot preach. (break)
Bob: Does a devotee lose some of his individuality in that...
Prabhupāda: No, he has got full individuality, but he sacrifices individuality for pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." So he voluntarily surrenders. Not that he has lost his individuality. He keeps his individuality fully. But because Kṛṣṇa desires that he should surrender, he never minds. He's individual. Just like Arjuna, in the beginning he was declining to fight on account of his individuality. But when he accepted Kṛṣṇa as his spiritual master, he became śiṣya. Then whatever He ordered, "Yes." That doesn't mean he lost his individuality. He voluntarily accepted, "Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, I shall do it." Just as all my disciples, they have not lost their individuality, but they have surrendered their individuality. That is required. Just like if a man does not use sex, does that mean he has become impotent? If he likes he can have, thousand times sex life, but he has voluntarily avoided it. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Sometimes we fast, that does mean we are diseased. We voluntarily fast. It does not mean that I am not hungry, I cannot eat. But we voluntarily fast.
Devotee: Whether the British should have been forcibly removed from India.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is ordinary duty. If you encroach upon my freedom, I have the right to kill you. That is recommended. That is clearly stated in the śāstras. If anyone sets fire in another's house, if anyone kidnaps his wife, if anyone takes his money—so many list—he is to be killed. There is no question. He can be killed immediately. That action-reaction is going on in the material world, that is a different thing. That is karma-bandha. But in devotion, there is no karma-bandha. As Kṛṣṇa is free from all reaction, similarly Kṛṣṇa's devotee who wants to satisfy Kṛṣṇa only, he is also free from all reaction. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāva-manyeta karhicit (SB 11.17.27). "The ācārya is as good as I am," Kṛṣṇa says. Nāva-manyeta karhicit, "Never neglect him." Na martya-buddhyāsūyeta, "Never be envious of the ācārya, thinking him as anything of this material world." Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān (SB 11.17.27). Therefore, ācārya's position is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **. Ācārya is always cautious that he may not be subject to criticism. But who criticizes ācārya, he becomes immediately offender. Because he is playing the part of ācārya, he plays as far as possible. But sometimes for preaching work, he might have to do something which is not consistent. But if he is criticized, then that man who criticizes, he becomes... Of course, he must be ācārya, not a bogus. Ordinary man cannot transgress the laws, but Kṛṣṇa and His representative, ācārya, might be sometimes seen that he has transgressed.
Prabhupāda: All scientific. As this is winter season, so there will be a summer season. Anyone can say that after two months there will be summer season. Similarly, these ages are also, what is called, changing. So now it is Kali-yuga. After this Kali-yuga, there will be Satya-yuga. Cycle. So everything is happening. When there is winter season, everyone feels cold. So there is no question of asking. The particular type of age and its reaction of the quality of the nature, it will be there. So as there are many Kali-yugas, so it is to be understood that many times these things happened, and many times again will happen. Seasonal flowers, fruits. In the past, there were many times all those flowers and fruits, and in the future also they will appear. What is the difficulty to understand? But if in all these changing circumstances, if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then your position becomes transcendental. You are no more subjected to all this changing process. So that opportunity is in the human life. It doesn't matter whether he is in the Kali-yuga or Satya-yuga. Because he has got this human form of life, he must be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then his problem is solved. So you have to preach like this, that we are giving the best human welfare activities to utilize this human form of life.
Prabhupāda: At least, they can take by shaving head means it cleans, cleanses. The head is not overburdened with unnecessary... (laughter) We want clear brain, and that is the system, Vedic system. All learned scholars, they cleanse head. Cleanse head. Yes. And at least we get relief. A little hair growing is also burdensome. We cleanse. So it is personal convenience. So that is not the point of preaching.
Author: No. But, sir, I see... I don't... I think it would be very difficult to explain the meaning of having a bald head, and by saying somebody's got a bald head, the reason for this is, there seems to be some cleanliness and so on, and to explain why people wear clothes like this. It's impossible surely to explain the reasons for these things without describing them in the first place.
Prabhupāda: Explain... Any group of men, they have got a particular type of dress, the military dress, the police dress. So people can understand that "Here is a police." Similarly, by this dress they will chant, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" immediately. That is our experience. As soon as they will see these people, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," and if they will criticize our, anything, we want that people see us and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That we want. Simply by seeing us they will remember Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is great advancement. Indirectly that is our propaganda, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Sudāmā: But even where does... In my mind, if I hear the word chance, where does chance, how does chance come about, if there is such a thing?
Prabhupāda: No. The rascal says that I am trying in so many ways; one of them by chance becomes... But I am not working in so many ways. We had a plan, to come here, to preach. So according to that plan, we arranged with this man, and it is not chance. It is all prearranged. Where is that I am trying this way or that way? We are going to preach. There is a plan. So our men go before my reaching there and they make nice arrangement, nice apartment. Then they receive me. These are not chances. This is all prearranged plan.
Bhūrijana: They say that... But they don't acknowledge the plan.
Prabhupāda: Why they don't acknowledge? Everything is being done by plan. The rascal who is speaking like that, he is educated by a plan, by his parents. And therefore he is able now to talk nonsense and get the Nobel Prize, for talking all these rascals. His education was planned.
Śyāmasundara: Buddha, Lord Buddha.
Prabhupāda: Yes. About Lord Buddha is also mentioned in the śāstra that Lord Buddha will appear in Gayā Pradesh, in the province of Gayā, and his business will be to cheat the atheists. That is described. Now, how he is cheating? He is the incarnation of God, but he is preaching amongst people who don't believe in God. So he is cheating in this way, that "Yes, there is no God. You hear me." But he is God. The people amongst whom he is preaching, they don't believe in God, but they accept Lord Buddha. But he is God. So by cheating, he is making others to worship God. God is there. But superficially they think, "We don't believe in God. We believe in Lord Buddha." And Lord Buddha is God. Therefore in the Bhāgavata it is said that his business will be cheat the atheist class of men. Sura-dviṣām. Sammohita-sura-dviṣām. Sammohita means bewilder. But his philosophy is that to make the people sinless. Ahiṁsā. "Don't kill." That is the greatest sin. So he is propagating that "Let these people be saved from the greatest sinful activities." Lord Buddha appeared... He also appeared in India. Why? He was also Hindu. He was kṣatriya, king. He promulgated this philosophy, ahiṁsā, when there was unnecessary killing of animals. According to Vedas, animal can be killed in sacrifice. That also to give a new life. But people misinterpreted and they began to kill animals like anything with the evidence of..., "In the Vedas animal killing is sanctioned." So Lord Buddha appeared, just being compassionate to the poor animals. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam. Sadaya. He became very compassionate, that "All these poor animals are being killed unnecessarily." So he promulgamated a new type of religion-ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. "Don't commit violence.
Prabhupāda: ...Bangladesh. That is his vision.
rādhā-kṛṣṇa bol bol bolo re sobāi,
(ei) śikhā diyā, sab nadīyā,
- phirche nece gaura-nitāi
Gaura-Nitāi, these two brothers, Gaura and Nitāi. There are Pañca-tattva: Śrī Caitanya, Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa, five tattvas. So rādhā kṛṣṇa bol bol, bolo re sobāi, ei śikhā diyā: "This is the teaching of Lord Caitanya." And he says, jay sakal bipod: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, the composer of this song, he says that "you get out of all kinds of dangers," jay sakal bipod, gāi bhaktivinod, jakhon o nām gāi. "If you simply take to chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." And at last he says, rādhā kṛṣṇa bolo sañge calo: "Please cooperate with Me," Lord Caitanya says, "and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Ei mātra bhikhā: "I am asking all this. I am begging." So our mission is like that. The same thing. We are asking people without any argument or political purpose or social or... No. Simply we are asking that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Wherever we are opening our branches, it is our only business that we are requesting people to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. We don't want anything. We don't want to do any business, but we are simply spreading this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra because people are being washed away. māyār bośe, jāccho bhese. They are being washed away, khāccho hābu, always in trouble. Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. Jīv kṛṣṇa dās e biśwās korle to'ār duḥkho nāi: "But if you try to understand that your position is eternal servitude to Kṛṣṇa, then your all troubles are over." This is our mission. So wherever we are preaching this instruction of Lord Caitanya, people are accepting. I saw one nice article published in some paper here?
Bhūrijana: South China Morning Paper.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So the article is nice. So one thing is that we are simply interested for a temporary object, but we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We do not die. We simply change bodies. Just like these children, they are changing bodies from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to youthhood, the changing bodies. The final change is called death. That means, final change means, giving up this body, we accept again another babyhood body, again begin. This is going on. And this is called māyār bośe, jāccho bhese. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We are being washed away by the waves of māyā. We are forced to accept a certain type of body, again give it up, again forced to, under 8,400,000 species of life. We do not know, next life what kind of body we are going to get. People should be careful about this. But they are simply interested with this short duration of life, say fifty years or hundred years. But they do not... There is no education, there is no university, that "Everyone is eternal. He should not be engaged only the changing phases of life. One should be interested in the eternal interest of life." This is our mission, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I'll request you all, ladies and gentlemen present here. Sindhis are generally opulent and religious also, I know. Formerly, when some of our Godbrothers were going to preach in Karachi, they received very well. Now it is Pakistan. Otherwise all Sindhis, they have a special reception for saintly persons. They are religious persons. So you are all here. I think you should open a very nice center for preaching this gospel. And we have no discrimination. We accept anyone because we do not see the outward body. Just a gentleman is not interested with the outward dress, he is interested with the person he talks. Similarly, we are interested to see every person as spirit soul. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍita means learned. Sama-darśinaḥ.
Prabhupāda: You cannot expect many disciples, but still, there are two thousand. Because I have got so many conditions and the fact is so difficult to understand, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, they have forgotten God, and I am trying to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is a very difficult job. I have to shed my blood three tons before I make one convinced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is my experience. I have to talk with him, especially these Europeans and Americans. They do not accept anything so blindly. They try to... I am always being questioned, even in my tooth(?) Question, question, question. That's nice. Inquisitive, they want to know. So I give them answers. I have got four secretaries always with me. They are giving answers. So to become Kṛṣṇa... Especially in Europe and America, when I make this condition that you cannot have illicit sex, you cannot have intoxication, you cannot meat eat, er, you cannot eat meat, you cannot have gambling... This is their daily affair. This is their life. Even Lord Zetland refused, "Oh, we cannot give up these things." So I am controlling them in this way. Still, they are coming. So it is very difficult job. Still, there are many thousands, and they are so sincere that if I ask them that... This boy is going to Red China. I am sending him. You see? So I have asked them, "You go there. You go there." They go even at the risk of life. Yes. It is the duty of the Indians to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, but they are preaching very nicely. I am training these foreigners. They are doing this duty. It is the duty of the Indians. It is their culture. But they are satisfied only... If one young man gets a nice wife and a little bit of money, oh, he says, "My life is successful." Therefore I went away. I approached many gentlemen. "Please, you have got four sons. Give me one son. I shall make him a real brāhmaṇa." "Swamiji, (Hindi)." He does not know the value. Therefore I left India, hopeless. And Kṛṣṇa has given me chance, very good chance. Now they are appreciating. When I go to India they become surprised, "Swamiji, how you have done this thing?" This is the reason.
Prabhupāda: Only priests? Only priests?
Dai Nippon representative: Priesthood. Priesthood. (Japanese) It has somewhat changed now.
Prabhupāda: We are all priests because we are preaching. All my students and myself, we are preaching. We are on the priestly level. So our philosophy is ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). Everyone has got some professional or occupational duty. Just like you are printer. We are preachers. Somebody is something else. Everyone has got different occupational duty. So our philosophy is that it doesn't matter what business you are doing, but see that your life is successful. That is our philosophy. And how our life can become successful? Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). If you can preach Lord Buddha or Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter. I have already explained Lord Buddha is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. So if Lord Buddha is satisfied, then your life is successful. It doesn't matter what you are doing, but by your action Lord Buddha must be satisfied. Just like your assistants. Their business is to satisfy you. Whatever they may do, it doesn't matter. If you are satisfied, their business is successful.
Japanese devotee: Your Divine Grace? I would like to explain the background between your activities and (indistinct) (Japanese)
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: Oh. You must admit that.
Sudāmā: Yes. The attracting cover of a Back to Godhead magazine, done so nicely, and the presentation and the devotees there—a man is just inclined, "Yes, let me see. Let me see what it's about." (break) (new sequence-Prabhupāda sings hari hari biphale in the car)
Prabhupāda: We say that in whatever occupation you may be, try to find out some time and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is our preaching. So it will help you. At least you will get, even if you are attached to the material activities, you will get next birth a human body, rich family, another chance, or Vaiṣṇava family. That is also great benefit. Even there is no salvation, but he gets opportunity again. (sings another line) So Karandhara Prabhu, what advantage you will get by opening their office there?
Karandhara: Well, all of the communications can be done with the liaison officer. He'll have a telex, so I won't have to wait for two weeks to get a letter back. I'll just speak with him, and he can telex. And we can save the money we're spending now on telex. And sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's hard for them to understand my English and it's hard for me to understand their English. It takes a little elaboration. So if there's a person there to speak with and he can speak with them in Japanese and with me in English, it's simpler.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, there will be a great many advantages, but they have to expend for that service. They will expect some more business. That will... We think we shall be able to give him.
Prabhupāda: This is the point. Preaching means this. Even one has no previous record of service, still, if he meets a pure devotee, he becomes enthusiastic. Therefore preaching required. Otherwise, one can say that whatever he has done last life, he will begin from there.
Prabhupāda: All guidance. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa bolo bolo bolo re sobāi.
Devotee (1): What does that mean?
Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya is preaching simply this, that you all chant Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, or Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Ei śikhā diyā, sab nadīyā phirche nece' gaura-nitāi. "By teaching this philosophy, the two brothers, Gaura-Nitāi, are traveling all over Nadia." Māyār bośe, jāccho bhese', Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. "Why you are being carried away by the waves of māyā? Why, unnecessarily? And you are being drowned and saved." Jīv kṛṣṇa-dās, e biśwās, korle, "Simply believe that you are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, then all these troubles immediately gone." Bolbe jabe, pulak ha'be, that "If you chant this, then you will feel ecstasy." Rādhā kṛṣṇa bolo, saṅge calo, ei-mātra bhikhā, "So I don't ask you anything. Simply chant and come with me." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Have you got puffed rice? No.
Devotee (2): In the shop. You have to get it from the shop.
Prabhupāda: But I don't think you can get now.
Śyāmasundara: Nothing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I never wanted his property. I simply desired that such a sublime message, like my poetry, that...
Śyāmasundara: First poem upon arriving.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Miracle done. I wanted, "Oh, there is a miracle. If I try to preach this miracle in the world." So he has given me the facility. I never wanted the Gauḍīya Maṭha buildings.
Śyāmasundara: So because you desired in a certain way, He provided that facility also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I desired that such a wonderful message, why not preach?
Devotee (3): And you got buildings also.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee (3): You got buildings...
Prabhupāda: Building automatically comes. But rascal fools, they do not understand this. That is mentioned in the... In bhakti, other success follows. Just like when the queen goes, there are many maidservants catching the..., what is called?
Śyāmasundara: Train.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (1): This one shuts down. They are eager to stop work and enjoy their senses. (break)
Prabhupāda: So that anyone questions, you can answer. That is required, preaching. Just like this girl, "Why you are recommending your Bhagavad-gītā?" Answer must be there: "Because this is. "They are all rascals. They are not speaking Bhagavad-gītā as it is.
Śyāmasundara: She understood it also.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You have no right. Suppose I have written one book. So I have got some intention. So why should you interpret my intention with your intention? What right you have got? You have no right. If you want to speak something of yours, then you write another book. Why you are taking advantage of my book and misleading others? I want to speak to the public something, I have expressed my opinion in that way. But because it is popular, you are taking advantage of my book and expressing your views. How much cheating, how much cheater you are! Therefore he is suffering, Dr. Radhakrishnan. He has lost his brain. We went to see him, Dr. Radhakrishnan, when I was in Madras. You went?
Śyāmasundara: Yes, like a vegetable, with no comprehension.
Prabhupāda: Lost.
Prabhupāda: Unclear.
Śyāmasundara: As soon as there is person, there is no doubt, clear.
Prabhupāda: But we have tried to explain how He is person. Just like we try to explain how God is working. So one should have brain to study things. One must have clear idea how God is person, how He is working, how this cosmic manifestation is manifested by God's energy. Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā (BG 9.4). "In My impersonal feature, everything is manifested there." Tatam idaṁ sarvam. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). So one has to apply his brain—that is intelligence—how it has become person. That is not false, that is fact. You cannot understand; your brain is teeny. That is different thing. Now you make your brain competent to understand this philosophy. (break) ...vijñātaṁ bhavanti. So take this philosophy nicely, understand this philosophy, and preach. You will be victorious everywhere, because we can challenge anyone. If you know the trick, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you can challenge. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). One who is nārāyaṇa-parāḥ, he is never afraid of anything.
Śyāmasundara: Whenever someone challenges you, you always know the trick, what their weak point is, the weakness is in their challenge, and you go right there. Every time.
Prabhupāda: That is the trick of wrestling. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: You have kept there some other razor?
Nanda-kumāra: I have put yours back. Yours was in a bag I could not find immediately, so I put another one there, and now I've changed it back again. (break)
Devotee (1):...at least half of the energy that you have to preach.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee (1): We may develop at least maybe half of your energy to continuously preach someday?
Prabhupāda: Continuously?
Śyāmasundara: He says that someday he hopes that the devotees, your disciples, may acquire half of the energy that you have for preaching.
Prabhupāda: Why not full or double? You may have doubled.
Devotee (1): It's inconceivable.
Prabhupāda: Just like my Guru Mahārāja did not travel all over the world, so I have got double energy than him. So you must triple energy, four times energy than me. Then actually disciple. My Godbrothers are envious because they could not do. They could not do even half of Guru Mahārāja's work, and I am doing ten times. So therefore they are envious. So if an ordinary man like me can do ten times, you are Americans-twenty times, then you are successful.
Martin: Can a true devotee come face-to-face with God through the teachings of Buddha, the teachings of Christ?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Teachings of Christ, teaching of Buddha, they are meant for a particular type of men. Generally it is meant for everyone, but specifically for a particular type of men. Just like Lord Buddha, he preached ahiṁsā. They were a particular type of men. Lord Jesus Christ also preached to a particular type of men. "Thou shall not kill." That means they were killing. Is it not? If I say, "Thou shall not steal," that means you are thief, you are stealing. So a kind of preaching among the thieves and a kind of teaching among the philosophers must be different. That is the difference. Lord Buddha is Kṛṣṇa, Lord Jesus Christ was Kṛṣṇa incarnation, but they were preaching to a different type of people. Therefore you'll find difference of Lord Jesus Christ teaching, Buddha's teaching, Kṛṣṇa's teaching. Kṛṣṇa's teaching also is there, which is also Buddha's teaching. But more than that, because the persons amongst whom He was teaching, they were far, far elevated than the thieves and the rogues. That is the difference. Just like I am pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, I am doing so many things which sometimes my Godbrothers out of envy criticize. But I know what is the circumstances how to do it. They do not know it. I know my business. So that is their fault. Their own buddhi business, then simply criticize "How he is acting." Find out some fault. Just like Lord Buddha was criticized by the Vedic brāhmaṇas, "Oh, you are stopping animal sacrifice? It is already in the Vedas. Because it is sacrifice, the animal is also sacrificed, so how you can stop animal sacrifice?" But Lord Buddha, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam. In the Vedas there is recommendation for animal sacrifice, but he began to deride.
Devotee: What class of men did Lord Caitanya teach about?
Prabhupāda: Those who accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Devotee: He preached among the devotees.
Prabhupāda: His preaching begins from surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Kṛṣṇa upadeśa is that Kṛṣṇa's asking everyone to surrender unto Him. So one who has surrendered unto Kṛṣṇa, he can understand Lord Caitanya's teaching. Jīvera svarūpa haya nityera kṛṣṇa-dāsa (CC Madhya 20.108). He begins His teachings from the point when one accepts that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa."
Martin: This chanting process is directed to everyone, or just those who...
Prabhupāda: No, everyone. By chanting he'll come to this point. When his heart will be cleansed, then he will come to this point to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We initiate a person, not that he is already on that standard, but we are educating him by the process, how to come to that standard.
Prabhupāda: It is not the question I believe and don't believe, it is a fact. God is there—you believe or not believe—but God must be there. Your believing, not believing, it doesn't matter. If I don't believe there is no president, it does not mean there will be no president. There must be president. I do not know who is president. (indistinct) So people are in misconception that there is no God, God is dead, I am God, you are God, God is not person, so many God theories. But we have no theory, we have got a positive presentation, "Here is God." With that conviction we have to push on. So you must be prepared in that way. There will be so many questions, so many opposing elements. You have to face them by your arguments, by your knowledge. This is required. At least we must have faith in that way. We have to push on. This is the fact. We are Brahmā sampradāya, Lord Brahmā's sampradāya. So, Brahmā sampradāya, Lord Brahmā is giving. Just like last evening we were reading about Brahmā's thought. He is posing, "Yes, here is, You are God." Although He was child, "He appears to be a child, but You are God." That is Brahmā (indistinct). He is giving support on that point. So if you follow Brahmā then there is no question, here is God. And he writes in his saṁhitā,
- isvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
- sat-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ
- anādir ādir govindaḥ
- sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
- (Bs. 5.1)
Here is the God. And Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nasti. (indistinct). "There is no more superior truth than Me, I am the origin of everthing." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Everything comes from Him. The Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), so Absolute Truth is there, which is the original source of everything." So, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the original source of everything." The Vedānta says the Absolute Truth means the original source of everything. Brahmā confirms it and you must also understand (indistinct). So you must spread your conviction by your literature, by your argument, by your preaching, by facing opposing elements. That is the process. What do you think, Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja?
Prabhupāda: That is the point. Our advancement means the more we meet opposing elements, "Oh, that is alright." Therefore preacher is the best devotee because he is a soldier. Just like government gives all importance to the fighting soldier. When there is war, all comforts for the soldier first, then the civil people. There was no butter in Germany, there was no butter. But the soldiers were profusely supplied with butter. And sometimes when the enemy attacks, they throw it away and go away and go to another shelter and still there is butter. That my Godbrother (indistinct) when he first came to India I asked him that, "I heard that you German people are very robust, stout and strong, why you are so thin and weak?" So he replied me in this way that, "In my childhood when I was eight years old weekly I was getting butter for (indistinct)". Everything was controlled, even for children. But the soldiers, there was no control. So that is, my point is, that those who are soldiers, fighting on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, they are brave soldiers. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). Kṛṣṇa says, "Nobody is dearer than him who is in the process of preaching this Bhagavad-gītā." So, in order to become very dear to Kṛṣṇa... Actually that is the position. So we must preach in that way—by our literature, by our magazine, by our books, by our speech, by our arrangements. Of course, very peacefully, we are not very (indistinct), becoming violent (indistinct). But by argument, by words, by our methods, by our preaching, we have to convince. So selected fifteen men, not twelve (indistinct). It may increase more. Now we have got very many centers, but the duty is very responsible. So as, so far the center is concerned, the local president is (indistinct) man. The GBC can supervise that things are going on. The first management is that each and every member in the temple is chanting sixteen rounds regularly and following the regulations, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Hm. But anyway, because you are living in this country, you must have some friends. Whenever you talk with your friends, you talk about Kṛṣṇa. Don't waste your time in other ways. That will be beneficial for you and for your friends. And before talking about Kṛṣṇa, you should know about Kṛṣṇa. And you can know about Kṛṣṇa very easily by understanding Bhagavad-gītā. So read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly. Try to understand it and you can distribute it. That is a great service to Kṛṣṇa, to your personal self, and to the person you are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. And four principles of impious life, as it is accepted by our Vedic followers, namely, no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That will give you strength and over and above that, if you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... You can chant. It is not difficult. There is no loss. You can chant. That will give you spiritual strength. And in this way try to become spiritually powerful and serve Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't matter. Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa's kingdom. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor everywhere. So if you be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so wherever you may be, you'll be with Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you remain with Kṛṣṇa, you are not living within this material world. You are living in the spiritual world. So, especially I request Indians, as it is ordered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra: (CC Adi 9.41) "Anyone who has taken birth on the holy land of Bhāratavarṣa, India," janma sārthaka kari, "just make your life successful by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and preach it." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. So if you take it you'll be happy, your neighbors will be happy, the world will be happy. And Kṛṣṇa-kathā means to present Kṛṣṇa as He is. Don't misinterpret by us..., just like some rascals do. Even a great scholar known all over the world practically in scholarly circle, he has practically vilified Kṛṣṇa by his so-called scholarship. Now he's suffering. He has lost himself, we have practically seen. So that is a great offense, to vilify saintly persons or God. That's great offense. So read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, present it as it is. Then your life is successful. Now, if you have got any question we can discuss.
Prabhupāda: Twenty. And about two hundred somewhere. And in America you know the expenditure. We are living in the best part of the city. But we have no source of income. We take some books, some incense, but there is no guarantee that it will be sold. So it is not a book of technology, general demand—Kṛṣṇa book. So if somebody's kindly interested in Kṛṣṇa, he'll purchase. So we are living in this way, depending on Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's supplying all necessities. We have got seventy thousand dollar expenditure per month. So this is practical. We don't try for getting any job or any business. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. But our main business is to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness and follow the rules and regulations, chant sixteen rounds, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we are... There is no problem for us. To collect seventy thousand dollars and spend every month, do you think is very easy job? A big government is concerned, or a big company, to collect seventy thousand dollars and distribute it again. It is a big problem. So how... We are increasing our centers. Practically every month, two, one, two. And we have got huge expenditure. But Kṛṣṇa is supplying. So we should see the example, be confident, depend on Kṛṣṇa and then everything is all right. Kṛṣṇa is powerful. He's omnipresent. He knows better than me. Our business is to satisfy Him. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So we are preaching this, that "You take to Kṛṣṇa. Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa said. The same thing we are saying. We are not manufacturing it. Why should we manufacture? The words are already there. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We simply... Just like I have come to your place. What am I speaking? I am speaking that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious." We don't talk of any economic problem, political problem. We don't talk.
Prabhupāda: Now, you are very intelligent boy. You can try to understand this philosophy. It is very important. And try to preach. For sense gratification people are wasting so much time, but they do not..., they're not responsible what is going to happen next life. But there is next life. Foolish people, they are ignorant, but there is next life, and this life is preparation for next life. That they do not know. The modern education, universities, they're completely in darkness about this simple knowledge. We are changing body every moment—that's a medical science—and after changing this body, we'll have to accept another body. How we are going to accept that body, what kind of body, this can be also known. Just like one is being educated, when he passes his examination, one can understand that he's going to be engineer or a medical practitioner. Similarly, in this life you can prepare yourself to become something next life.
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. When you preach, you can say all these things with so-called Christians. So what you are doing for God? Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). Just like sun. The sun is absorbing urine. Can you drink urine? If you want to imitate sun, "Oh, here is sun absorbing urine. Let me drink urine," can you? Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. He is powerful. He can do everything. Therefore we cannot imitate Him. We have to simply abide by His order. That is real Christian. You cannot imitate powerful man. That is wrong. Just like in our Vedic literature there was a poison ocean. So what.... People became puzzled what to do with this—this demigod. Then Lord Śiva said, "All right. I'll drink it." So he drank the whole poison ocean and kept it in his throat, nīlakaṇṭha. Now, you drink poison? Not the ocean. You drink one cup. So how you can imitate Lord Śiva? Lord Śiva never advised that we drink poison. So you have to abide by the advice, not by imitating, "Oh, Lord Śiva..." Just like this LSD and marijuana, they say sometimes, "Lord Śiva used to smoke gāñjā." They say like that. But Lord Śiva drank the whole poison ocean. Can you do that? Lord Śiva's instruction should be taken. He says, "The best worship is to worship Viṣṇu," viṣṇu ārādhanaṁ param. When Śiva was asked by Pārvatī that "What method of worship is first-class?" Then he said, "The first-class worship is worshiping Lord Viṣṇu." Viṣṇu ārādhanaṁ param. Tasmāt parataraṁ devi tadīyānām ārādhanam. He said the Viṣṇu worship is the best. There are many demigods, but he recommended, "Viṣṇu worship is the best." And the better than Viṣṇu worship is to worship Vaiṣṇava. Tadīyānām ārādhanam. Tadīyā means His servant, or one who is, or what is in relationship with Him. Just like we are worshiping this plant, Tulasī. We are not worshiping all plants, but because this Tulasī has very intimate connection with Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu, therefore we are worshiping. Tadīyānām ārādhanam. Similarly, anything who is intimately related with Kṛṣṇa, worship of that thing is better than worship of Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: All right. Then where is the pen?
Nanda-kumāra: That Gopāla Kṛṣṇa gave you?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Nanda-kumāra: I have that packed in your suitcase.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Preach, preach, preach, preach, preach, preach.... Everyone is (indistinct). That Christian, "Oh what..., what Christian you are? You are disobeying the orders of Jesus Christ, and you (indistinct) a Christian." This is going on. We don't say that because you are Christian you cannot love God. We simply say that you are not following. If you follow, then you can learn also how to love God. I never said. So many questions are there. "By following Jesus(?), yes, we can attain perfection." Yes?
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, which would you like to take?
Prabhupāda: Any one will do.
Devotee: So shall I take your passport now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Kīrtanānanda: Probably five thousand. (indistinct) five hundred.
Prabhupāda: Huh? They're drinking, they're eating meat, they're gambling and they are having illicit sex, and they are preaching. And we say, "First of all stop these things, then claim yourself to be religious, or God conscious." You cannot indulge in all these things. (aside:) Oh, you have kept my one cloth outside?
Devotee: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's outside.
Prabhupāda: Because I may require in the.... So, we don't want to enter into arguments, but we must know, but if somebody comes to argument, we have to say. What can be done? We say that "You follow Christianity in perfect order, you'll be benefited." That we say. Our test is whether you're advancing in God consciousness. That is our test. You follow Christianity or Muhammadanism, anything you follow, we don't mind. Whether you are developing your God consciousness, love for God, that is our test. But if your process has failed, then you can try this. And you'll see, in our process within so short time, how they are becoming God conscious. You have to admit. And they admit also.
Prabhupāda: He's from America.
Guest: From California.
Sumati Morarjee: All from California?
Devotee: He travels around England and preaches in all the villages, small towns.
Sumati Morarjee: Where's that?
Devotee: Here, in England, Scotland.
Guest: I also met you in Bombay once.
Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, I have seen you in Bombay. And what about you?
Devotee: I'm Scottish.
Sumati Morarjee: Ah, because you look...
Prabhupāda: In Edinborough we have got a temple.
Sumati Morarjee: Is it?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That, not only in India. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not meant for India or America. Of course, I am deputed by my Guru Mahārāja to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the Western world. That is his grace. He wanted that Western people, who are intelligent, they should learn what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So my mission is for the Western country, but it is not meant for any particular country, nation. It is meant for every living entity. Now, there are many unfortunate living entities and there are many fortunate living entities. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in America or Western country, only the fortunate persons they are coming. But if few of them come and understand, then by their example and behavior, the whole population will be benefited. It is not expected that cent percent population will be able to understand this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but by the examples of the few, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). Just like you'll find in our temple it is always crowded to the fullest extent. We require a more spacious home. But not all of them our initiated students. Out of them say ten percent may be our initiated students. But still people are coming to see. They are following. Gradually they will also become student. So it is a very important movement, scientific movement. I therefore request learned scholars like you, government, scientist, philosopher, they should study. For them we have written so many books. Not only that. It is not that we are simply chanting and dancing. If you are philosopher, if you are scholar, if you are scientist, we can give you proof in a scientific way, in a philosophical way, scholarly way; therefore these books are there.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Yes. (laughter). Yes. So, what is our business with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? (child makes noise) (aside) This child will disturb. Our, this movement is that we are trying to love Kṛṣṇa. If I love Kṛṣṇa, or God, then naturally I will be obedient to the laws of God. It is not? Just like these, my students, when, say four or five years ago, I came here, I had no student. I was loitering in the street. Nobody was caring for me. Now I have got hundreds and thousands of student. They can do whatever I order. So I did not pay them anything, neither I brought any money from India, but they are executing my order simply out of love. Is it not a fact? Because they have developed a love for me... The reason may be whatever it may be, but unless they have developed love for me, how they can execute my order without any personal profit? Therefore this is first thing required, that religion means to abide by the orders of God. Simple thing. And this obedience to the laws of God will be automatically performed if everyone loves his dormant love for God. We have taken this science. We are teaching everyone how to love God. If he thinks that "I have learned to love God through some particular religion," we have no objection. Either he is Christian or Hindu or Muslim or whatever he may be, if by executing the religious principles which he is professing he has developed his love of God, then we have nothing to preach to him. The result is there. But because we don't find the love of God is there, that we are putting a simple formula that "Here is the way." By utilizing or by accepting that way he will very quickly love God. So if we agree, if we are convinced that to love God is religion, and that is our main business in the human form of life, then this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the genuine scientific movement. Everyone should take it. This is the (indistinct). But if somebody thinks that "My aim of life is different. I don't care for God," that is a different case. But our philosophy is, this human life is especially meant for developing that God consciousness or to know the art how to love God. Because the animals, they cannot. I cannot preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy amongst the animals, because their consciousness is not so developed. But still, my movement is so perfect that I can do well even to the cats and dogs—by offering prasādam, by giving him chance to hear Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. This vibration is transcendental. When it is chanted it is good for everyone, all living entities. Therefore we go to the street and chant so that everyone can hear the transcendental vibration.
Frenchman: (indistinct) ...history of many masters and many great teachers such as Jesus Christ and many others... (indistinct) ...come to... (indistinct) ...message. (indistinct) ...today on the same level.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because from God's side there is always an attempt to make the people right. As soon as they're wrongly directed, some messenger comes like Jesus Christ or Buddha or, before Him, Lord Kṛṣṇa. So what we are preaching that is not new. It is God consciousness. And all the great messiahs they came. But the thing is that people are changing in their different education mentalities. So we have to present things in such a way that intelligent person can accept the old teachings in the western countries. Like Lord Jesus Christ... Either they're not being followed or they're not properly understood because in London I saw hundreds of churches are vacant. That means that it's so practical that people have no more interest in Christianity or the Christian people could not convince them of the spiritual necessity of life. Many churches are for sale. That's not a good sign. That means people have lost interest in spiritual life but fortunately the younger generation, they are taking to this spiritual movement.
Prabhupāda: So you, you can talk with Mr. Polsen and give him instruction.
Ian Polsen: Thank you, Your Grace. Before I go, Your Grace, I am employed in government service. Is it your wish that I resign?
Prabhupāda: No, no. We don't say like that. The thing is that you serve Kṛṣṇa. Our predecessor ācāryas, they are also government servants, but they resigned when they decided to preach this cult. If you have desire to preach this cult, then that is different. Otherwise, as a gentleman you can remain in your position, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and follow the rules and regulations.
Ian Polsen: Your Grace, how many times do you recommend that I chant on my beads? How many rounds?
Prabhupāda: We recommend minimum sixteen rounds.
Ian Polsen: Minimum sixteen rounds, every day.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, you can chant twenty-four hours. Minimum sixteen rounds.
Ian Polsen: Is it true that if I follow the regulative principles, the four, that I will be able to chant without offense?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But ah... You are married, no?
Ian Polsen: No.
Dhanañjaya: The duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the real duty. But people do not know that. They are manufacturing their duty. A big man like Gandhi, he also manufactured his duty, but he does not know what is his duty. He never preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness; therefore he does not know what is his duty.
Devotee: He said that the message of Bhagavad-gītā is nonviolence.
Prabhupāda: That is all. Opposite. Whatever message it is... He was supposed to be a very good scholar of Bhagavad-gītā. His photograph is with the Bhagavad-gītā. But he did not speak a single word that "You become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." He talked so many nonsense. All others... The real Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender unto Me." Nobody says, neither Tilak, Gandhi, this Ramakrishna, this Aravindo. Nobody says that. He's made purposefully avoiding his duty. And these rascals are going as dutiful. His duty was to say as Kṛṣṇa says, if he is actually student of Bhagavad-gītā. Here is Kṛṣṇa saying that you surrender, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We are doing that. We are not speaking something nonsense. We are speaking, "Here Kṛṣṇa says surrender. You surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Simple thing. We don't manufacture duty. We are servant of Kṛṣṇa. Our duty is to say people, "Here Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto (BG 18.65). You become His devotee, you always think of Him, you offer Him obeisances." Our simple duty.
Prabhupāda: They'll contribute. And if she canvasses, she can collect lakhs.
Devotee: But one thing is, if Giriraja takes advantage and begins preaching in her school daily... She's invited him, open invitation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then it will be pleased.
Devotee: Then when she'll see her students improve, then she'll give us all help.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we have got land, many people will contribute materials. Materials, we can get materials from many big, big merchants.
Devotee: Yeah, like, ah, Tarachand.
Prabhupāda: Cement, iron, they will.. "All right. Give it." Goods, anyone will give.
Devotee: Tarachand Gupta, I think his name is.
Prabhupāda: He is also our life member. He is nice.
John Nordheimer: What problems do you have in making His word, His instructions reach the ears of everyone in the world?
Prabhupāda: We are not preaching our own words; we are preaching God's words. Now it is up to you to make your choice. God says to give up all engagements and just surrender unto Him. God says:
- man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
- mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
- mām evaiṣyasi yuktvaivam
- ātmānaṁ mat-parāyaṇaḥ
- (BG 18.65)
"Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, offer obeisances and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me." I am a member of the political party and am always thinking of Mr. Such and such, my leader. I become a staunch follower of that leader, worship him and offer obeisances to him. So many people are sacrificing their lives simply by following a political leader, and for party superiority they are doing so many things, always thinking of party's activities, always offering obeisances and worshiping the party's principles. If all these things are transferred to God, they become good. God says, "Think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer obeisances unto Me." If we transfer these activities to God, we can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is what we are teaching. We advise that what you are doing for some nonsense, do it for God. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest (2): Gītā Press, Gorakhpur, has those publications. I have one of them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Gītā Press has got different versions also.
Guest (2): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Gītā Press also tried to preach Gītā since forty, forty years. But Bhagavad-gītā was, published by Gītā Press, was not in the Western countries. And we published this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is in 1968. It is now all over the world. And the Macmillan Company, the biggest publisher of the world, they are taking interest. Not only this book. For this book they are taking gradually all our books. So our point is: present Kṛṣṇa as it is. That is real Indian culture. Don't present Kṛṣṇa adulterated. Your country will be glorified. The whole world will accept that India has got something to give. You are simply now beggar. So I have come to this country not to beg, but to give. That is my mission. And they are feeling, "Yes, we are getting something substantial."
Guest (3): There is one question which many people have asked. You don't have to answer them but sometimes they say, "Why is it that Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is so popular in this country, has so many centers, and not that many centers in India where Lord Kṛṣṇa...?"
Prabhupāda: He does not know. He is a foolish man. In India there are millions of centers. He does not know that. Simply if you go to Vṛndāvana you'll find five thousand temples. He does not know. He speaks nonsense. He speaks nonsense. The man who has spoken like that, he is a nonsense. He does not know what is the condition of India. Mass India, every person knows Kṛṣṇa. Every person is a temple of Kṛṣṇa. He does not know. He has spoken nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Śyāmasundara: One thing that has so much gone to, into our hearts is the fact that this philosophy and this way of life is eternal and nonsectarian. It applies to all people of all different races, different ages.
Prabhupāda: That is my experience, you see. I have preached this cult everywhere, and everywhere it has been received well.
Ambassador: Well that's a philosophy that mother Anne here believes in. All, all, all religions are...
Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to understand what do you mean by religion?
Mrs. Keating: What?
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by religion?
Mrs. Keating: Oh, religion. Well, I'm more of an eclectic. I believe in, in the best of all religions.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Mrs. Keating: I believe in the best of all religions.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Mrs. Keating: The highest.
Prabhupāda: So blessings of Dr. O.B.L. Kapoor. He is a Vaiṣṇava. Although by age he is my younger brother, we are Godbrothers, and for the last forty years perhaps, since he was a student at Allahabad and I was doing some business there, we are known to each other. So his association is a great blessing for us. But this reception is actually not my reception. It is the reception of my foreign students. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted that His message should be broadcast all over the world, in every village and every town, and my Guru Mahārāja attempted. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura distributed his literature. I think, in 1896, he sent his first book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and I saw in McGill University that book. And I do not know. That was the year of my birth also, 1896. So somehow or other, later on, I came in contact with Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja in 1922, and he immediately asked me that "Why don't you go to the foreign countries and preach Caitanya Mahāprabhu's blessings." So I was little surprised. Especially at that time, I was very young man and I was newly married. I got one son also. So it was my mistake that I did not take up the words of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja immediately. I thought that "I am now married. Let me settle down." Perhaps if I would have joined from 1922, by the blessings of Guru Mahārāja, I could do more preaching work. Anyway, it is better late than never. After my retirement, I was living in the Keśī-ghāṭa, Nāthagrāma(?) Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Temple. But this Gosāijī, Gauracanda Gosāijī, he asked me, "Why don't you come here?" So I left that place. I came here. And with some arrangement, I took this room. But I was always thinking that "Guru Mahārāja asked me, and he asked also some of my other God-brothers, but up till now, nothing has been done.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise Bon Mahārāja was deputed, but he wanted to cheat. He thought that "I shall go to England and become. When I come back, I shall advertise myself, 'I have preached in this way and that way and that way' and exploit." Just like Vivekananda. They are all cheaters. Vivekananda had no knowledge even to..., knowledge to give. He was such a rascal. And he went to America and he picked up three women, that's all. That is his achievement. One Sister Nigrita(?), his private secretary, that's all. This is all cheating. If you do not know... They go for wine and women, that's all. All these swamis they are going now these days. Saccidananda, that long-haired man, he is also being sued for something. Who was telling me?
Gurudāsa: That Devasa(?) boy.
Gurudāsa: That Devasa(?) boy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this cheating process is going on. But you cannot cheat Kṛṣṇa or māyā, that is not possible. It is gosvāmī, that is (indistinct) Don't make compromise that somehow or other just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everything will be done. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Duratyayā. It is very difficult to surmount the laws of nature. So how is that achieved? Just like laws of nature are so strict, if you eat more, immediately you get indigestion. So how you can cheat? You can experience. Nature's law is working. Therefore, to become brāhmaṇa means satyam. You know the meaning of satyam? Satyam means truth. The first quality is he is truthful. Satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam āstikyaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam. The beginning is satyam. Generally the people in pilgrimages like Vṛndāvana, they have taken this religiousness as a profession to earn money, just like other businessmen do. That is cheating. Generally they do so. In Los Angeles they are keeping the standard given by ourself. At every āratik in early morning, at least 150 men. Even though I am not present, by system, by kīrtana, dancing, offering Deity worship nicely (indistinct). So we have to maintain the standard very strictly. Otherwise it will again become Rādhā-Dāmodara temple and Bharatpur Mahārāja (indistinct). You will have to find out some customer to sell it. What is the use of starting temple if you do not do it properly? Why should you waste your energy? Better travel and preach. Don't take the risk of starting big, big temple. As soon as the energy is gone, there will be trouble. That Govindajī's temple, that man lost everything because he was cheating. If this man is also cheating, then he will also. Our Tīrtha Mahārāja is cheating, then what is his...? He got so many things but he could not do anything. Now he is after these buildings, that's all. Otherwise, what is his credit? He is not a good preacher. He was at the head of Caitanya Maṭha. How much duty was..., heavy duty he had to preach. But he has no preaching capacity.
Gurudāsa: Preaching gives that spiritual energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So one must be qualified to preach. If he is a cheater, how he can preach?
Gurudāsa: If he's preaching, the qualification will come.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he is sincere, then his capacity will increase. Otherwise, if he wants to cheat, then it will decrease.
Gurudāsa: So what is the purpose for very large temples in India? Just for the...
Prabhupāda: Just to attract people to give them spiritual inspiration. That is the purpose of temple. Not that you think that "People will come and give me money and I shall eat and sleep very nicely." Then it will gradually become Rādhā-Dāmodara temple or any other temple. Bharatpur Mahārāja's house.
Gurudāsa: I'm thinking that if we're endeavoring with as much energy to preach and have a modest temple that everyone's energy will be increased, our devotees' and the outsiders'.
Prabhupāda: That is the basic principle. If you lose your energy, then it is everything is lost. And to keep the energy intact, you must be very strict in following the principles.
Gurudāsa: Subala Mahārāja was joking with me that I am wanting to preach but instead I am just thinking of steel and cement.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Gurudāsa: Subala Mahārāja was joking with me that I am wanting to preach, but instead I am thinking about steel and cement and bricks.
Prabhupāda: No. If that steel, cement, and bricks are meant for preaching, then it is all right. But if there is difficulty, then sometimes we become absorbed in steel-cement. Steel-cement is not bad, provided it is meant for preaching. That is also spiritual. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe yukta-vairāgya. But because we are materialistic, sometimes steel and cement attracts us more than Kṛṣṇa. So this Bombay affair is giving me a little depression. Because so highly thought of, now these people they do not want to stay there. Just like this Mahaṁsa, Dinanātha, they do not wish to return. Something has to be done.
Gurudāsa: Actually it is not only one or two isolated cases.
Prabhupāda: There are many. I have studied all of them.
Gurudāsa: If it was one or two isolated cases, one can think maybe it is personal difficulty, but it is many cases.
Prabhupāda: No, this is due to mismanagement. It is due to mismanagement. Proper leader. (end)
| Page Title: | Preaching (Conversations 1967 - 1972) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 02 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=155, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 155 |