Prabhupāda: So we are giving this chance to the people "Please come and hear." But they are not prepared even for that thing. The age is so strong, the Kali-yuga, that it will dictate. Māyā will dictate, "Why you go there? What is there?" But actually, those who have come to us, those who are following, they are so much changed. That is a fact. They are seeing. They are hearing, "It will be." They are seeing, "It is." Still, they are not interested. Just like a class of men, they see that a person who has committed theft is arrested by police, and he is hearing that "If you commit theft, then you will be sinful or you will be caught by the laws of the state." So seeing and hearing, still he is committing theft. Why? By experience, practical experience, he is seeing that "Here is a man, committed theft. He is punished. He is going to be arrested by the police." And he has heard also that if somebody commits theft, he will be punished. So what do you want? Two things are required. Dekha śroṇa(?), seeing and hearing, for gaining knowledge. So he has got knowledge by seeing and hearing, but still... That means the heart is not clear. So this thing will be helpful for clearing the heart. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Simply by legal obligation one cannot be purified. You may enact thousands of rules and regulation and laws. You cannot purify the heart of the people. Here is the process to purify the heart of the people. Therefore they should be taken advantage of.
Practical experience (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They are very aristocratic family. I do, I did not belong to that family, but I was born in that family, you see? And from the very beginning the Kashi Mallik, they have got nice Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple. So I was standing before the deity, and I was seeing, "Oh, He is Kṛṣṇa. Oh, people say He is dead. How he is dead?" Like that I was thinking. And then my, I asked my father, "Oh, I shall worship Kṛṣṇa, give me." So my father gave me Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, so I, whatever I was eating, I was offering them. So the statement of the śāstra and my practical experience corroborates. So we we have to take instance like that, you see? Sādhu śāstra guru vākya. We have to test everything from three positions: the spiritual master, scripture, and holy man. Scripture means, just like Bible. What is Bible? Scripture. Why the scripture? It is fully contains the instruction of sādhu, holy man, or spiritual master, Lord Jesus Christ, therefore is scripture. The scripture means the statement of liberated holy man.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Perhaps in other engagement he cannot dance. Actually there is no problem. Why there should be problem? There are 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, human being are 400... Out of that, 80%, they are uncivilized. So all these living entities have no problem for eating. This 20% or 15% people who are called as civilized, they have problem. They have created problem. At least in India, say, hundred years before, there was no problem for eating, even for the śūdra class or any... No, there was no... The society was so made, there was no problem. Why fifty years? In 1933 or '36 in Vṛndāvana somebody wanted milk, some pilgrimage amongst ourselves. So went to a house. So, "Can you supply us some milk?" "Ah, how much you want?" So it was about ten pounds. So she supplied immediately, one woman, and when she was offered price, "Oh, why shall I take a price for ten or twenty pounds of milk? Oh, you can take it." That is my practical experience. Milk was so freely available. So simply we are creating problems by godless civilization. That is a fact.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (laughs) The servant was crying, "Oh! I am dying, I am dying, I am dying." So I immediately called ambulance and took her to the hospital. Then, when I went there, there were so many neophyte doctors. They experimented, and they said, "Immediate operation is required." "Why?" They gave us some technical terms. Then their leader doctor came. He said, "All right. Let us see this night. Then, next morning, we shall operate." So I asked him, "I can go? He may remain in your charge?" "Yes." So I went, came back. And when I was absent, another servant of the neighbor, he told to my wife, that "Babuji..." Babuji means master. "...it is unnecessarily he has taken to hospital. He was drunk, and he was crying like that. (laughter) He drank." So my wife told that he was drunk, and he was therefore crying like that. "No, no. Doctor says that it is a serious case (laughter) and it is to be operated." And the next morning the servant came back. "And why you come back? You were to be operated?" "Oh, thik hai. It is now all right." Just see. The rascals were going to operate. He was drunk. In drunken state he was crying, and they took it a case of operation. That is my practical experience. Everything you take there: "Operation."
Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation) Bhagavān is sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ. Bhagavān says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ, (BG 10.8) ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. (Hindi) sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayaḥ (BG 14.4). Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. So practical experience (Hindi). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). (Hindi) They have been cut with two hands because I have got really two hands. (Hindi) Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). (Hindi) Origin, I am spirit soul. (Hindi) Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta (BG 15.7). (Hindi) Bhagavān katha mamaivāṁśo. So bhagavān nirākāra. Bhagavān avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāh, mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). (Hindi) is for imagination.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. Actually, if one is actually learned, scientific, he must admit. He must admit, unless he is a lunatic, rascal. He will say all these nonsense things, "Chance." Why chance? What is taking place within your practical experience by chance? If by prearrangement we would not come here, then who would care for it? Even on the street we could not lie down. Nobody allow. the police will arrest. "Who are these men?" How do you say chance? Everything is done by prearrangement. The chance is an explanation given by the rascals and fools. They are not sane men. There cannot be anything by chance. We got up on the train, and the train is running, and it is all chance? There is a huge management behind the train. Therefore we are comfortably seated, and we come to the destination right in the time. All these are chances? What is that...? He has written such a big book.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhir narāṇām. The only special significance of human being is that he has got special intelligence to understand what is Absolute Truth. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So therefore his first duty is to know the Absolute Truth. Not waste time for eating, sleeping, mating. The modern material civilization is wasting time, so-called advancement of material comforts. Simply wasting time. Nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ (SB 2.1.3). They are wasting time at night either by sleeping or by sexual intercourse. Divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā. And during daytime, simply: "Where is money? Where is money? Where is money?" And as soon as they get money, they spend it for kuṭumba-bharaṇa, for maintaining the family. This is their business. The sum total of modern civilization. And if they can purchase a nice car, that is the success of their life. Kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā. Not only for himself, for his wife, for his children, if he has got three cars. Just like our Mukunda Mahārāja is doing. He's earning one thousand dollars and spending in car. That is his Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Rascal boy is so much captivated with the rascal girl. He's thinking that he's happy. He's spoiling his life. (pause) Divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā (SB 2.1.3). Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api, teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati (SB 2.1.4). Dehāpatya. Deha means body. Apatya means children. Dehāpatya-kalatra. Kalatra means wife. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣu. He thinks: "They are my soldiers. I'll fight with nature, struggle for existence. And they'll save me." Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api. Although he knows that they'll not exist, still he's so mad, teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanam, he knows I'll not exist, the soldiers will not be able to help me. paśyann api na paśyati, he sees and still he does not see. Paśyann api na paśyati. He knows by practical experience that "This society, friendship, love, nation, nobody can save me." But still he thinks that "They'll save me."
Prabhupāda: No proof. How they can say so? (pause) If they accept that life started from life, then they'll have to accept God, the Supreme Person. Just like by practical experience we see one life is produced by another life. The father, mother begets a child. Not that a child drops from the sky. Their test tube experiment also depends on the father and mother. So what is that? Where is the proof? In the test tube you mix some chemical and produce a child. Then your theory is all right. You cannot create even an ant, even a fly. And still you are claiming that you can manufacture human being?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What they'll say manufacture means they will take a seed, that... But
Prabhupāda: Yes, this protest must be now. If they accept life started from life, then they will have to accept God. That is their difficulty. That is their difficulty. And practically we have no experience... We can see life started from life, father begetting child. We can see father is a living man, and another child will be born. But where is life starting from matter? Where is that evidence? Life starting from life, we have got practical experience, but where is the evidence that life started from matter?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are assuming. There is no proof. They just think, they just assume it.
Prabhupāda: Assuming, what is that? There is no proof?
Prabhupāda: Paramātmā is not material body. Paramātmā's energy. Just like heat and light is the energy of the sun. The sun is not feeling heat and light. For him, everything is all right. There is no heat in the sun, body of the sun. He doesn't feel any heat. You are feeling heat. Similarly, for Paramātmā there is no such thing: this is material, this is spiritual. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). We hear that He has got different energies. His energy is one. Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā. That is spiritual only. Just like sunshine. That is sunshine. Now we are seeing it is covered with cloud. It is our imperfectness. But there, in the sun, there is no such thing cloud. Experience, practical experience. The sun is not experiencing cloud, although there is cloud. We are experiencing. Similarly, this matter and spirit is for us, not for Him. He, either He comes in so-called material body or spiritual body it is the same. It is the same. For Him it is like that, the same, because it is His energy. He can turn matter into spirit, spirit into matter. That He can do.
Prabhupāda: Everyone will understand. Because hearing is there. Everyone, even a child, after hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he claps, he dances, he joins. That is practical. We have seen. Small child, say, four, five months old, on the lap of the mother, he's also moving, clapping. So this, this is also yoga system, bhakti-yoga. So it is so practical that even a small child can take part in it, without any advanced knowledge. Universal. Universal. Even dogs sometimes, they take part. We have got practical experience. They don't like to leave us. Yes, I have seen.
Devotee: I have too.
Prabhupāda: Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. In this way, as the heart becomes cleansed, he revives his quality of goodness. And when he's situated in the quality of goodness, the other two qualities, passion and ignorance, cannot infect him. By this process. Rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. The example is kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. When one is too much affected with the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, passion and ignorance... What is this kāma? Lusty and greediness. These are the symptoms of rajas-tamo-guṇa. So then therefore we see that all people are lusty and greedy. So as soon as he becomes cleansed, come to the standard of goodness, these two qualities cannot affect him anymore. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). One has to take the process. And it is simple process. Simple... And that, that is actually happening, in our practical experience. They say, they say... They are all rascals, fools. They can say anything and everything.
Śyāmasundara: Manufacturing?
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that is small manufacturing. So I got very, very good chance. But Kṛṣṇa did not allow it. He wanted me to come to this point. That is my practical experience. And now I'm seeing that it is Kṛṣṇa's so much favor. You see? Yasyāham, anugṛhnāmi... It is, it is, actually it is His grace. "What he'll do by becoming Birla, rich man like Birla?" That was Kṛṣṇa's plan. "Come here. Do this work." You see. My Guru Mahārāja ordered. Kṛṣṇa wanted. I was resisting Him. That's all. I was actually very expert businessman in chemical line. I did it very creditably in Bose's laboratory as manager and my own business. And everyone knows... Even in manufacturing also.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah, with that same experience now you've organized a world-wide society...
Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot say that He is not a person, because He is inconceivable. You cannot say whether He is person or not person, because you are illusioned, and inconceivable... But why you are thinking that because you cannot say perfectly, everyone cannot say perfectly? You are thinking like that. Just like we have got experience: one body cannot say something, but the other can say. Practical experience. Just like this child cannot say something but the father can say.
Bali Mardana: It's their envious attitude. They are envious.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not the question of envious. Because you are thinking that He is inconceivable, because you cannot say... But how can you say that another person cannot say? There are so many things I do not know. That does not mean that somebody else does not know.
Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. In Greece I think some people know of our movement. Because in the airport as soon as some young men saw us, they chanted "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" Yes. Maybe they are Europeans, but I had practical experience. (break) which..., that Park Avenue?
Bali Mardana: Wednesday they are having a meeting. Perhaps on Wednesday.
Prabhupāda: Wednesday. So you have to attend? No.
Bali Mardana: No, I don't have to attend. The lawyers attend. If I attend, it may ruin everything. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...one is yogi. Karmī, jñānī, yogi or bhakta. What is the difference between karmīs, jñānīs, yogis and bhakta?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Nāsato vidyate bhāvo nā..., asataḥ vidyate bhāvaḥ. What is the next line? So, we take things which is conclusive. The scientists, they are making experiment, where is the beginning of life. Misled. They are thinking life is from matter. They have no experience. Still, the rascal Darwin gave a theory. They are persisting on it. They have no practical experience that life is coming from matter. That is called vṛścika-taṇḍula-nyāya. You have no experience in your country. We have got. Sometimes you'll find, scorpion is coming out from the stack of rice. You have seen it?
Karandhara: I haven't seen it, but I have heard of the example.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...office, you cannot contact the proprietor directly. There are subordinate officers. Through them you have to take the proprietor's help. The office master is there. You have to satisfy the office master. You cannot directly approach the proprietor. If you satisfy the office master, then your promotion and other things is all right. But if you want to... I have got practical experience. One of my friend, he was working in office. So the proprietor was there and many other employees were there. So that my friend, he suggested something to the proprietor, and the proprietor immediately dismissed him: "Oh, this man want to suggest me. Dismiss immediately. Give him his pay he will require." In that I have got practical experience. He later on became so sorry. Now it is the process. So this is practical. We should not try to approach directly Kṛṣṇa. That is not the right way. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: (CC Madhya 13.80)
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I have got experience. In our Calcutta house, there was ghost. In Lucknow when I started that laboratory in Mr. Bhattacarya's house in Vat-nagara(?), there was a ghost. I have practical experience. My servant...
Indian man (1): I have heard a few cases. You see. I was reported that they see in that house there was ghost, and he used to put clothes to fire and they have to run for water to extinguish it. Then I went and examined. He was a friend of mine. Then I ultimately detected that his own wife got hysterical and used to do all those things.
Prabhupāda: No, that is also possible. But...
Indian man (1): You see? So I discovered that there is no ghost, and I explained to them...
Prabhupāda: No, it is by the grace of God one can remember about his past life. (break) ...practical experience. In our family, my mother's eldest sister, her son of a previous birth came to see her. Old man, very old man. (break) This is called illusion.
Dr. Patel: All relations of the son, child, wife, husband, all these are of the... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...just like in the river sometimes several straws will meet together. And again they disperse. (break) We get our body and mix together, and again we are dispersed by the waves of time. (break) ...at the end we shall see Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Girirāja: "...the original Personality of Godhead, master of all mystic powers, learned brāhmaṇas know very well that this cosmic manifestation is an expansion of Your potency." (break)
Mahāṁsa: Pious people, they see that actually they are not giving any spiritual benefit by converting them into Christianity. So they are very against this. They want some original Vedic school, Gurukula schools.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is, we have done already. Satsvarūpa has got practical experience. He can give you advice. He started this Gurukula. Practically this Gurukula I suggested, but he began. Yes. So you can take practical advice from him.
Mahāṁsa: I don't think we can start building until we finish this temple.
Prabhupāda: No, you can start in a cottage.
Mahāṁsa: Yes, small way.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mahāṁsa: And then develop.
Prabhupāda: That is their local language.
Indian man (1): Even wordly, everything is in English in world also. But these peoples said, "Why the devotees don't...?"
Prabhupāda: Now, I have earned my practical experience. I am traveling all over the world. Everywhere, if not all, some sections they understand English. Everywhere.
Indian man (1): English is common language.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We cannot avoid English.
Pañcadraviḍa: Even we went on an engagement in Bengal to a movie theater. They were showing our slides. There they had one Russian movie. It was in English. Russian movie was in English.
Devotee: What they do, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is take the petrol out and put salt water, because they know there can be a imbalance. And then they put salt water in the holes.
Prabhupāda: But water cannot produce gas. Petrol produces gas. Maybe due to that gas, it is floating. Because we have got practical experience. When there is gas, you can float anything.
Dhanañjaya: Like a balloon.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: There is another big problem that now all the opposing countries have built up excess amounts of atomic weapons all pointed at each other. So now they are trying to have big planning conference how to diminish all these weapons.
Prabhupāda: So is that very good proposal?
Haihaya: It's worst thing that one can propose. It's just to push man to degenerate himself because of this food, little food.
Prabhupāda: It is my practical experience. Śyāmasundara had to waste at least two to three hours to secure rice, fruits. Only milk and butter could we get. And then we had to wait in the... They would not allow us to cook unless they had finished. This was the difficulty. Practically I have suffered. All their claims are bogus. The people are not happy there. The young men are not allowed to go outside the country. Just see. All freedom lost. All freedom lost. It is a government of terrorism, that's all. And whatever the Communists do, simply by terrorizing that's all. They have no gentleman's method. Terrorizing. (break) ...misleading other rascals that "You come this way; you will be happy." And the rascals are being misled.
Prabhupāda: Why? Your experience of relation, as soon as a relation two, the two persons.
Priest: No.
Prabhupāda: No, why not? This is your practical experience. How you can say no?
Priest: You see, I have got relation...
Prabhupāda: We are two person.
Priest: ...with you. But I am not in relation with God, because God is relationship.
Prabhupāda: No, no, when you say relation, why not that relation as we have got relation?
Priest: Certainly.
Why nature has produced? Because there are persons who cannot eat third quality rice. So God has given: "Oh, here is first-class quality." They will eat little. And in India there are classes, they will eat so much. So for them that red rice is good. They do not like this fine basmati. I have got practical experience. Sometime we used to give even the servants the same rice. So this man came. He complained, "Bahu." "Bahu" means master. "This rice is not suitable for us." That fine basmati rice. He did not like it. Then the next day that red, big, big. Have seen that? Japanese rice or some, Burmese rice. It is reddish and big and little hard, and he likes: "Very nice." So there are classes of men, classes of animals. I have got practical experience of all this. The big animals... (break) ...living entities. That He is providing everyone. Nobody is hungry. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the śāstra. Tīrthī-kurvanti tīrthāni svāntaḥ-sthena gadābhṛtā. Because a pure devotee carries Kṛṣṇa within his heart, therefore wherever he goes he makes a holy place. It is said in the śāstra. So not me, but every one of you, if you are pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then wherever you'll go, that is a holy place. Tīrthī-kurvanti tīrthāni svāntaḥ... To become sannyāsī means that, that he'll be pure devotee, and wherever he will go, he will purify. That is sannyāsa means. Mahad-vicalaṁ nṛnāṁ gṛhināṁ dīna-cetasām. Mahātmās, they'll travel so that the householders, who are cripple-minded and full of sinful activities, they'll go there and make them purified. This is the idea of sannyāsa. And in the Vedic civilization a brahmacārī and a sannyāsī has open door. There is no restriction. No "Beware of dog." (laughter) But now they are prohibited. I have got practical experience. After my sannyāsa, when I was touring India, so in Ahmedabad, or Baroda, I was entering one man's house. So he was standing on the balcony. (laughter)
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Everybody's thinking that "I am this body." That is rascaldom. They have not even this primary knowledge of spiritual identity that he is not this body, although he has got very practical experience that a child is getting another body as a boy, the boy is getting another body as young man. Suppose I am... I know I had a body of a child. I still remember, when I was a child, six months old. I remember how I was lying down on the lap of my eldest sister. She was knitting, and I was seeing. Very vividly I remember. Now, where is that body? Tell me. Where is that body? Now sometimes I think that "I was jumping as a boy. And now I have to take this stick." So where is that, my jumping body? Tell me.
Prabhupāda: Change. So the body has changed. But I remember that I had such a body. Therefore I am different from the body. I wish to possess again that body, to jump, but I cannot. This is the condition of my life. By nature's law I am getting one body and I am changing to another body. This is going on. So as in this life I have got this experience, that I have changed my body, similarly, the greatest authority, Kṛṣṇa, says that "When this body will be finished, you'll get another body," very simple thing. But these rascals do not understand. All these rascals, they do not understand. There is practical experience, and there is authoritative statement, and still, they do not know, and still, they are big, big professors, big, big learned scholars, doctor, scientist, philosophers. What is this?
Prabhupāda: It is very simple thing, that "I am changing my body, and similarly, I'll change this body." This should be understood by my present circumstances of life, and it is confirmed by the greatest authority, Kṛṣṇa. Knowledge by authority and knowledge by experience, both things are there. And still, the rascals do not understand. Knowledge is gathered by experience, and knowledge is gathered from the authority. Just like I ask my father, "What is this?" Father says, "This is bell." So this is knowledge. I get it from my father. And by experience, when I push it, it is ringing. So understand, "This is bell." So two sources of knowledge: by practical experience and by authority.
Girl: I must believe what my father says.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When He sees, "That fool wants Me, at the same time, material world. So take his material possession, everything, so that he will want only Me, that's all." Actually, it was done to me. (laughs) I have got practical experience. I did not want to take sannyāsa. I thought that I shall do business. And Kṛṣṇa forced me to take sannyāsa and all, everything, dismantled.
Devotee (4): Kṛṣṇa's mercy on us.
Yadubara: But your business was successful...
Prabhupāda: I was thinking of becoming Birla, but I am now more than Birla. This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.
Brahmānanda: Birla gives you money now.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if they read. Even if they touch. That is the difference between this book and ordinary book. Even they touch and they read one line and says, "Oh, it is very nice," he makes a step forward. If he simply says this word, "Oh, it is very nice," that is sufficient to bring him. Therefore I am trying to push. He has paid some money. He will then say, "What these nonsense have written. Let me see." (laughter) And if he sees and says, "Oh, it is very nice," then the beginning is immediately. Therefore we are trying to push. At least let him say, "It is very nice." The Kartikeya's mother, the practical experience... The Kartikeya, when he used to go to see his mother, the mother was going to dance, ball dance, and she would not speak: "All right, sit down. I am coming." She used to go out. The same mother gradually, in the association of her son, became Kṛṣṇa conscious. So at the time of death she asked Kartikeya, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" and she died immediately.
Indian man: On a rainy day is it possible to go swimming? On a rainy day... Some people say you mustn't go near water on a rainy day.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I am not speaking in detail. But by practical experience we can see that these men are not as efficient as the small fish. That is my point. They have advanced in civilization, so many scientists' brain, but they are not enough intelligent more than the fish. That is my point. Am I right or wrong?
Devotee (4): Right. Jaya.
Prabhupāda: If swimming is enjoyable, then let them swim always. Why they cannot?
Indian man: Actually, I go swimming...
Prabhupāda: No, he starts... According to the body he will work. If he enters into the dog's body, he will work as a dog. If he enters in the body of a tree, he will work as the tree: stand up naked without any shame; you cannot protest, your branches will be cut off. So these things are there. What do they know about this science? Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to take a different body. He does not say what kind of body. And you can see by practical experience. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body. You have to enter one of them. That's all. So what you can do? The nature will force you, "Enter this body." It may be a better body or it may be an abominable body, but you have to enter another body. Where is that education that "I'll have to enter another body after death, and let me prepare what kind of body I shall have"? Where is that education? They are blind.
Prabhupāda: They are thinking happy. They do not come out.
Bhāgavata: Eskimos.
Prabhupāda: I have got practical experience. In my childhood I used to go with my father for some purchasing some bhauma(?) flour in the interior districts. So there was one servant engaged. One day he did not come. So my father asked me, "He is living in there, in that cottage. You can go and ask him." So I went to his cottage. Practically there was no roof, and rain was dropping. So I saw him in a very bad condition. Then I asked him, "Why don't you come to Calcutta with us?" So he replied, "No sir, we cannot go, leaving home. (laughter) This is home." I have got practical experience. "Home sweet home." Janani janma-bhumiś ca svargād api gariyasi: Everyone is thinking that his birthplace and his mother is better than the heaven.
Prabhupāda: ...no practical experience, actually, what is the position of the sun, because you cannot go there. So I may theori.... Here, here.
Hariśauri: Do this side first and then that side.
Harikeśa: Well, he's actually saying that this is the task of science. He's not speaking about the idea of there's life or not in the sun. What he's thinking of here is, for example, a sensation. A sensation is an actual fact. Just like if..., there's a law that says equal and opposite reaction to actions. If I push some thing, some object, that, as this object is being pushed this way, there is simultaneously an equal and opposite reaction which is the force between the object and the floor, and the reaction comes in heat or friction...
Prabhupāda: Well, who made this arrangement?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, they do not know what is nature. Nature is an instrument, and there must be an operator. So that they do not know, the operator. Just like a child is thinking the motorcar is going automatically. He does not know there is a driver. The child sees that the airplane is flying. They think it is automatically going. And there is a pilot, he does not know. Similarly, these rascals, they are studying nature, but nature is an instrument only. It is being operated by Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). They have practical experience that without operator a machine cannot work. In the huge machine, how it is working unless there is operator? That they do not know.
Prabhupāda: So Jayapatākā Mahārāja, explain. You have got practical experience.
Jayapatākā: Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma jāra. Those people who are born on the sacred land of Bhāratavarṣa, they should perfect their life, janma sārthaka kari', and help others. Purpose of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is to perfect one's own spiritual knowledge and then to go and help other people. So people that are born here in Bhāratavarṣa have a special facility because of the Vedic culture, Aryan culture, to perfect their lives. And just as Śrīla Prabhupāda has gone all over the world spreading the Kṛṣṇa consciousness—one person from this Bhāratavarṣa has been able to do so much—if other pure devotees would come and preach as Śrīla Prabhupāda has done, then how many unlimited amount of fallen souls could receive the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break)
Prabhupāda: Actually it is white, that's all right, but if you see one fixed thing, a color, practical experience is the color does not change if it is fixed up.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing you are... Supposing there's a white light, and you are situated here, and in front of you is a screen with many colors, and you are moving different ways along this screen. Sometimes you are looking through a green, sometimes... in that way although the light is fixed up, because you are moving behind different colors...
Prabhupāda: So where is that screen?
Jagadīśa: That's called the spectrum.
Prabhupāda: Spectrum. So where is that? That is also finished?
Prabhupāda: He gives instruction. Just like I said, "Don't touch. It will hurt your finger. It is not good." "No, no." "So all right, touch."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned that the more intelligent person can become obedient by hearing. The less intelligent person has to see, suffer.
Prabhupāda: By practical experience. Dekhe sekhe thekhe sekhese. Tekhe sekhese(?) means he's a fool. Unless he comes to the actual position, he does not learn. And therefore śāstra-cakṣus—one who follows the śāstra's instruction, he is safe. That is experienced already. (end)
Prabhupāda: No, apart from Christian or Hindu, the general mass of people, how they can say that there is no creator? From common sense?
Rāmeśvara: They are accepting authority, and so they say...
Prabhupāda: Apart from authority, from practical experience....
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are fools.
Prabhupāda: ...how one can...? Eh?
Ṛṣabhadeva: They are trying to avoid their responsibility to that creator. They don't want to accept.
Prabhupāda: You can avoid the creator, but you cannot say there is no creator.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It means they're totally ignorant, Prabhupāda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are small-minded.
Rāmeśvara: It's like you were saying for this philosopher, Sartre. We see our practical experience is that someone has less intelligence, someone has more intelligence. So we should understand that God means...
Prabhupāda: The ultimate intelligence. That's all.
Rāmeśvara: So now these governments are very rascal. They are cheating the people deliberately.
Prabhupāda: Well, government means combination of cheaters like you. What do you expect more than that? If you are cheaters, then you go to the government. Someway or other get vote. Bribe or something nefarious you do and get vote, and they become cheap government man. And then do your business. Because you are cheater, you have come to the post of prestige and power. What you will do? You know simply only cheat.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he'll cheat more.
Hari-śauri: It's a fact. If you stop them doing that, they'll have no activity, just working.
Rakṣaṇa: We should expand our New Bhakta program so that they can have weekend stays in āśramas, have practical experience.
Prabhupāda: That they are coming.
Mādhavānanda: (break) ...of birds.
Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as there are trees, there will be birds.
Hari-śauri: I saw a squirrel down there earlier on as well. Squirrels, there was one just down there earlier on.
Prabhupāda: Ideal. Let there be an ideal section, our people, our men. And do your personal advancement. But that much.... If people come, it's all right. Otherwise, we must make our own life successful.
Prabhupāda: You can... Because we, at the present moment, we cannot understand, except physics and chemistry, we cannot understand life. So as we do not understand life, so therefore the definition by negation is there. It is not physical, not chemical. It is something beyond. But by practical experience we can see that when there is life, a living man wants varieties. That's a fact. Varieties. Otherwise, why we disagree? I have got some varieties, you have got some varieties. So the conclusion should be tested that living condition or life is full of varieties, therefore the kingdom of life, the spiritual kingdom, must be full of varieties. That is the conclusion.
Prabhupāda: So what is progress? In India still, in so fallen condition, we have got practical experience. If there is some arrangement... Sometimes we arrange Hare Kṛṣṇa festival. Each day not less than twenty thousand, thirty thousand, forty thousand people come. Although these, mostly these foreigners, they are chanting, and we are speaking in English, still, to hear the kīrtana, they come from remote villages. In Calcutta I have seen. That is natural tendency of Indians. Bhārata-bhūmi, anyone who has taken birth in India, naturally Kṛṣṇa conscious. By artificial means, they are being suppressed. Just like this Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, they have questioned that... What they have said?
Prabhupāda: You require clothing: the weaver is there. In this way, four classes of men. First class, second class, third class, or the intellectuals, the administrators, the producers and the general workers. This is Vedic system of division. Brāhmaṇa... This is for our living condition, and then human life especially meant for spiritual realization, self-realization. For that purpose, again, another four divisions. Generally, the brahmacārī, student life; gṛhastha, married life; vānaprastha, retired life; and sannyāsa, renounced life. So at the end of life one should be renounced from all other responsibilities and completely devote his life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. In this way, when a person dies in God consciousness, his life is perfect. This is Vedic civilization. Eight divisions, varṇa and āśrama. And if you simply produce śūdras, working class, then you cannot have any happiness. That is not possible. And nowadays democratic, if you send some śūdras to act as kṣatriyas, they cannot do it. You have got practical experience. In Vietnam, what happened?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why doesn't life come from the concrete then?
Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, mother and father cannot be one, they must be two. Our practical experience. So how can I accept a rascal like you that father and mother the same?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we see that Lord Brahmā is born from the same father and mother.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lord Brahmā, he has no mother.
Prabhupāda: But he has a father, and the mother is that lotus flower.
Rāmeśvara: Material energy.
Prabhupāda: Because, just like anything, creation means the mother, the father and the children. That is our practical experience. Without mother, we are nowhere. We are given birth by the mother. So the material nature is the mother. From the material nature, material elements, everything is coming. From the water the fishes are coming, from the land the grass, the worms, and then human being, they are coming. From the air also living entities are coming. So therefore material nature is the mother, and we have come out of the material nature, therefore we are children. Then there must be father, because without father, simply mother cannot give birth. This is science. You cannot deny the existence of God simply by a false argument. This is real argument. The mother is there, material nature, and we are children there. There must be father.
Prabhupāda: In, actually, in Bengal, Bengal has lost its original culture. In other provinces the brāhmaṇa class, they are keeping very strictly the original culture. Even a brāhmaṇa would not accept foodstuff prepared by his wife, because woman is considered śūdra. The woman, when she becomes the wife of a brāhmaṇa, then she is called brāhmaṇī, but she's not offered brahminical culture. She remains as śūdra. So therefore a strict brāhmaṇa does not accept foodstuff prepared by his wife. Still there are in U.P. The wife will arrange for cooking, and he'll sit down and cook dāl, cāpāṭis. Then he will eat, and whatever remains, that is there, that will be taken by her. But he will not take foodstuff cooked by his even wife. And if there are several brāhmaṇas, so each one of them will cook his own food. In Calcutta, mostly the rich men they used to keep the collector's darwans, they are called darwans. Means guard, policemen, guard. They're all, very big, big brāhmaṇa family, they used to take, accept the job. But each of them, even in police, I have seen, they are cooking separately. They take bath thrice, cook their own food, very strictly. The government had to give them a big hall for cooking. So, it will not take much space, say, little space. One small oven and demarcated: "This, you see, is mine, and then I, you get, this is yours, this is yours." So within that space they'll sit down and cook dāl, cāpāṭis, rice, one vegetable, and cook, and immediately all the utensils will be cleansed and washed, and the space washed and kept. You'd like to eat, they cook so nicely, although simple. And I have got practical experience, if you cook your own food, whatever it may be, it is healthy.
Prabhupāda: No, I have got experience. I am Calcutta born. What Calcutta was in our childhood days and what is now, I know everything. How we were happy during British days and what is now position, I can speak from my personal experience. We do not belong to the richest class nor to the poor class-middle class. So we have got practical experience. My father's income was not more than 250 rupees. How opulent we were. At least, there was no question of need. We were receiving daily four, five guests, and my father was functioning so many festivals and he was asking... My father gave in marriage four daughters. There was no difficulty. The income was not more than 250 rupees. Of course, that 250 rupees at least ten times now. But still, there was no needy. Not very opulent, but there was no need. The first necessity is to feed and to clothe. So there was no such scarcity. May not be very luxurious life, but there was no scarcity for food and shelter or cloth. There was no scarcity. Happy.
Prabhupāda: Suppose there is little success, but in comparison to the money expended, that success is little. Just like I, in the beginning I advertised my books in the Times, New York Times. They charged me sixty-three dollars, a small space. So there was inquiry, not order, three inquiries. Not even order. I have got this experience. For me, at that time, sixty-three dollars were too much. So I did not get any response. That is my practical experience. I got three inquiries, not even order. But the Times, New York Times, they have got millions of customers and millions of readers, but I got three inquiries.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is so many times explained. Just like a child wants to do something. The father says, "Don't do it," I have said several times. Reluctantly, "All right, do it." I have given this example of my practical experience in 1925 or '26 when my son was two years old. There was a table fan, "I would like to touch it." And I said, "No, no, don't touch." This is child. So but it's a child. He again tried to touch it. So there was a friend, he said, "Just slow the speed and let him touch." So I did it, slowed the speed and he touched-tung! Then he would not touch. You see. So this sanction was given, "Touch it," reluctantly. Now when he gets experience and I ask him, "Touch again?" "No." So this sanction. All of us who have come to this material world, it is like that. Reluctantly. Therefore God comes again to inform these rascals that "Now you have tried so much, better give up this, come to Me again."
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, that even if you attract better crowd, what will be the benefits? Unless, because unless you come to the point of practicing, there is no profit. Who will be attracted to practice Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. Nobody is... We are getting practical experience.
Yaśomatīnandana: In other words just being attracted to philosophy is not sufficient. There has to be... Let them become a devotee. (indistinct remarks)
Prabhupāda: Now just like we are attempting—not only here, everywhere—we have got nice buildings, and (indistinct) and Bombay we have constructed such big, big house so we are asking, at least those who are learned people, that if they retire, come here and practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No, nobody's prepared to practice. And this is a thing, without practice you cannot realize.
Prabhupāda: All these great sages, saintly person, who were they? They were all brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇa. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is always addressed, brāhmaṇa. Is it not? This is brāhmaṇa's business. It is not the kṛpaṇa's business. Kṛpaṇa's business means he does not know how to utilize the asset. So (Hindi) it is my duty to speak the truth. So now you can do whatever you like... Give him prasāda. (Break) ...these words, tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. They have been described, it is just like... Of course, it is very difficult, this itching. We have got practical experience. When there is some itching, we cannot stop it. We cannot stop it. Even if I do not want it, still... So it is like itching. Nothing more. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. The tapasya means how to control this itching sensation. This is tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). Tapasya means, tapasya begins, now brahmacārī.
Prabhupāda: Temple may not be played. What is use of playing in the temple?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I know from practical experience, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that... I just played this Alex's record. It's all current pop music with English philosophy wording. And all the brahmacārīs were so agitated, they came to my room to listen and they were, you know, really making fun of it like it was a pop...
Akṣayānanda: Because that style of music it reminds us of the nightclubs or whatever it might be.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I said it is better not to make these records.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I am simply surprised when I compare British days and nowadays. My practical experience—one of my maternal uncles, he's a very big, rich man. He was; he is not existing. So he was doing business, rice exporting. So in Calcutta, Chetra side, he had big, big godown full of rice. Not only he, other merchants also. But now they are empty. Similarly, from Bombay the oil seeds are being exported.
Dr. Patel: Yes. Last year they exported so much of this groundnut. Groundnut oil is costlier than ghee. (talks on for few minutes)
Prabhupāda: So we can go? (end)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. It's very interesting that science says that those equations at the bottom are the... Those are the ultimate truth, the modern science, about these mathematical equations. So if we analyze this on the analytical basis, they are like this—those mathematical equations. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And these are atoms and molecules or, we call it, fundamental particles. And so the spring between the two is some sort of electromagnetic force in the different..., among different particles. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And we analyzed this in terms of our practical experience, from our day-to-day experience, and we gave some nice examples like this. This is a crocodile from... It's a male crocodile from South Africa in Scientific American a few months ago. There he's trying to break an egg just to come out, that little young one, the small baby crocodile. And what he does is...
Prabhupāda: They come out from egg?
Prabhupāda: Hm? That is your experience. Śāstra says there is life, agni-paḥ.
Hari-śauri: But if we go on just practical experience like you were saying...
Prabhupāda: What is your, your practical ex...? You are rascal. You have no practical experience. If there is life in the water, if there is life in the air, if there is life within the earth, why not in the fire? It is also one of the elements. Why you discard only fire? There are five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. So if there is life in the earth, in the water, in the air, in the ether, what fire has done there should be no life?
Hari-śauri: But we see. The water's here. The earth's here. We see the life in there. We agree.
Prabhupāda: It is condemned. My position is different. Why shall I die? The rascals, they agree to die. We do not agree to die. We want to come to our original position, no more death. This is our motto, because we get information from the Bhagavad-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die on account of my material body mixed up... "Dust thou art; dust thou beist." This body is made of five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. And this is my gross body. The gross body is finished, but my mental, subtle body—mind, intelligence—that is not yet finished. That is carrying me to another body. Just like we have got practical experience. I am sitting here, you are sitting here. Mind carries me to New York, and I am now dreaming or thinking I am sitting in that room and talking with somebody. I have forgotten this, but... It is practical. Although I am sitting here, I have forgotten it, and I am working, thinking myself that I am in New York. Similarly, in dream my body is on the bed.
Prabhupāda: Dr. Ghosh... (Hindi) (Hindi conversation with Gopāla Kṛṣṇa) So you do not expect any good things from them. Otherwise you will not have any progress.
Girirāja: Well, we've seen from practical experience, they've never done anything except waste our time. Just like you said, they got rid of a lion and now there is a tiger.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Girirāja: You said that they have got rid of a lion and now in place there is a tiger.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Morarji Desai met some of our devotees in Hoshiapur.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (whispers)
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: I don't want. But if I am obliged, what can I do?
Kīrtanānanda: If you don't want, Kṛṣṇa will not want.
Prabhupāda: A realized soul, must be. Otherwise, simply by imitating A-B-C-D will not help. My purports are liked by people because it is presented as practical experience. (aside:) It is within the mouth.
Bhavānanda: I'm sorry.
Prabhupāda: Such a nice instrument, (laughter) that it must enter into the mouth. Then it will act. That kind of instrument not required. It must remain three miles off. Our translation must be documents. They are not ordinary... One cannot become unless one is very realized. It is not A-B-C-D translation.
Prabhupāda: ...slaughter, bigger slaughter. This is my practical experience. Father hates. (break) We saw lots of people.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Still...
Prabhupāda: In the beginning, when the marriage took place, thousand was common. He was everything. (breaks)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he stopped everyone from wearing saffron.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Somebody said that. He wore... (breaks)
Bhakti-prema: This is Bhārata-varṣa, Bhūrloka. Now, this is Himalayan mountain going from east to west. This is India.
Prabhupāda: First thing is, these people cannot cross the Himalayan mountain. (aside:) You can turn this light in this way, down. From my practical experience, I have seen Switzerland. It is so high, that so many accidents have taken place. Little inattention. They have experience. The plane goes thirty-two thousand feet high. Is it not?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Thirty to forty thousand. Say forty thousand maximum.
Prabhupāda: Still they met with accident. But they are saying that Himalaya is twenty-eight thousand feet high.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maximum.
| Page Title: | Practical experience (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 14 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=62, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 62 |