Population (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"populace" |"populate" |"populated" |"populating" |"population" |"populations"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1976, Madras:

Yaśodānandana: It has been seen everywhere we travel that there is plenty of rice everywhere, there is plenty of food growing everywhere, but yet the government is advertising that there is scarcity of food in everything. But there is plenty growing everywhere.

Prabhupāda: And reduce population, kill it. Hiraṇyakaśipu was doing that.

Acyutānanda: Birth control?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prajāpati. He stopped Prajāpatis to beget children.

Indian man (2): They said they are giving employment to many people.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Indian man (2): The government says they are giving employment by opening these mica mines and so many things. The government says they are giving employment and work to many people.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So you like to be employed?

Acyutānanda: In one mine recently there was a big cave-in, and how many people...? Three hundred men were killed.

Prabhupāda: Mica mine?

Acyutānanda: Coal. In...

Prabhupāda: In Bihar.

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hariśauri: Just a little early. It's still dark. I think ten minutes should be all right. Has this been used?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is in ignorance. Combination of matter and soul, moving animals. Some of them are standing as trees and plant, and some of them are moving. Where is the science to study? What is your value of knowledge? Hm? If they do not know the fundamental things, then what is the value of their knowledge? Simply observation, superficial, externally. There is good scope. They are receiving these books. We should take chance of preaching this Bhāgavatam, and the classes should be held especially.... No, the religious classes are already there. Let them study Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. And they will accept it. They are not fools. Simply we have to introduce it. The Western people, they are not fools, but misguided. So you take the charge of guiding them; then Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will be successful. They will appreciate, they will take it up and reform, and their life will be successful. And if they utilize their intelligence how to reduce population and kill child within the womb and "There is no soul in the womb. When they come out then the soul becomes"—what is this nonsense? Unless there is soul, how it becomes manifest?

Hariśauri: It's obvious. If the body is growing within the womb, there must be life there.

Prabhupāda: The same process is going on from the very beginning. A body is formed and it develops. The child is born.... The same process is going on. How do you say there is no soul? If there is no soul, how it has developed within the womb? Such rascals, they are passing on as big scientists. What is the reason they don't believe that there is no soul?

Harikeśa: They have really no argument.

Prabhupāda: Just see. All dogmatic. All dogmatic foolishness they are propagating, and it is going on in the name of vijñāna, science.

Morning Walk -- January 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, therefore everyone should grow seasonal grains. Everyone should take wheat. I think the number of men is more than the number of bricks. (break) ...rooms will be finished. They are not being finished. This? (break) ...Calcutta. So landlords became very perplexed. So one landlord asking, "You don't go. I shall reduce the rent." "Yes, that's all right, but your house is also not very good. There are so many rats." "All right, you can remain without rent." "And still, there are rats." "All right, I shall give you one cat so there will be no dis..." "Ah, who is going to keep a cat? I will require milk also to feed." "All right, I shall give you half kilo or one kilo milk also." "All right." So then he says, "Now no rent and one kilo milk, that's all right." This was in 1942.

Jayapatākā: (break) ...minister is coming to the district and...

Prabhupāda: Which minister?

Jayapatākā: The Ajit Panja. He's the health minister. So we didn't see him...

Bhavānanda: (break) ...that we must take drastic steps for curbing the population.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you become brahmacārī?

Hari-śauri: Too drastic.

Jayapatākā: We want to present that we are, by moral training, achieving that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are making them celibate. What is called? Celibacy.

Jayapatākā: Even our gṛhasthas, they are only having one or two children. (end)

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Harikeśa: He said it was in the Illustrated Weekly.

Prabhupāda: Oh. When it was?

Jayapatākā: About one year ago. There was a big article on prostitution.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we understand that in the Satya-yuga one hundred percent of the population was God conscious. But then again, we see many times it is stated that, for example, there were always prostitutes or there was always this or...

Prabhupāda: No, there were no prostitute in Satya-yuga.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No meat-eaters.

Prabhupāda: No meat-eaters.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: None whatsoever.

Prabhupāda: All paramahaṁsas. In the Satya-yuga they are all paramahaṁsa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every single person.

Prabhupāda: Every person was perfectly, spiritually...

Harikeśa: On the earth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then in Tretā-yuga one-fourth diminished. And then Dvāpara-yuga, half diminished. And in Kali-yuga, three-fourth diminished. Seventy-five per cent are all rogues, and twenty-five per cent... That is expected, but that is now diminishing. They are all rogues with the advancement of Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Therefore there is no other method to save them. Harer nāmaiva kevalam. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. Incorrigible. Everyone will be incorrigible. Only hope is Hare Kṛṣṇa. The whole Vedic system is to make human being correct. Being incorrect, they are suffering in this material world repetition of birth, death. Sometimes man, sometimes dog. So to correct him so that he comes to his original position, Kṛṣṇa conscious, and go back to home. This is the whole Vedic civilization, to correct him. Therefore it is called saṁskāra. Saṁskāra means correction. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Veda-pāṭhād bhaved vipro brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ.(?)To correct him and bring him to the brahminical stage. From pig stage to brahminical stage. This is Vedic civilization. Everyone is like pig in this material world. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Now don't live like pig." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: (SB 5.5.1) "Now, you, My children... " He was advising, instructing His son that "Now this life is not to live like pig." This is the first instruction, because everyone is more or less pig, living like pig. Pig means he has no discrimination of eating and he has no discrimination of sex. That is pig. And everyone is like that. No discrimination of eating, especially in the Western. And no discrimination of sex. Pigs. Big pig or small pig, that's all. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Now My dear sons, don't spoil your life living like pigs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Nṛloke means "In the human society you should not live like pig and very hard labor." So the whole civilization at the present moment they want to live like pig, and to live like pig they are working like an ass. And that is civilization, working like ass to become a pig. You tell them!

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Higher means it is higher for you because you are so dwarf. You are so dwarfed, you'll find that this tree is very big tree. You see? A small dwarf man, a pigmy, he'll say, "Oh, it is a big tree." So it is all relative. What is called? Relative world? Higher and lower, this is all relativity. You are so low that you see a tiny thing very high. It is due to your lowerness. Where there is no tree, these trees will be considered: "Oh, very high tree." So your scientists and your appreciator, all, they are like tiny dwarfs. What do they know about the universal affair? That is their fault. They are so small... That, the same example, Dr. Frog, calculating Atlantic Ocean. This is the fault. They do not consider their position. Just like there are thousands of ants. We can immediately kill them. And they are thinking they are very big, the ants, that "We are very busy. We are very big." So these rascals' position is like that. If the devatās in higher planets like, all the population of this material, this earth, they can kill like this-finish. Just like we can kill the ants.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, in the Sixth Canto, second part, I haven't read it yet, but I saw a picture of a big demon who was fighting, and everyone else was just like little ants.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That was described in some English book, the man?

Hari-śauri: Gulliver's Travels.

Bhavānanda: Gulliver's Travels.

Prabhupāda: Ha, ha, yes. These rascals, they do not know there is Gulliver. They are thinking very big.

Morning Walk -- February 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And we want to make Mohammedans Hindus.

Acyutānanda: Yes. They also do that. They try and... Mainly they try and reconvert the Christians. They get some results. And they pander to the tribal castes so that they don't convert to Christianity. The Mohammedans and Christians have refused to use birth control, so they think that their population will soon outnumber the Hindus. So they are afraid that the Mohammedan and Christian block will sway elections in the future. (break)

Jayapatākā: Brahmacārīs don't like to take the instructions from the elder devotees, and then they want to take sannyāsa, so they think they can be independent and give orders themself and not listen.

Prabhupāda: Therefore not to be given all of a sudden. (break)...to become sevaka. Everyone wants to become sevya.

Hṛdayānanda: Served.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And, ultimately, God. Se pasha pasha pasha bo... (?) When everything failure, then to become God.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: I... I think, only in the world, that is the real country where people are really starving, in Russia.

Prabhupāda: Russia, yes.

Acyutānanda: Now they're having drought, and trying to get wheat from a freezing cold land. And they have their favorite class, also. The Party members are only a fraction of the population, and they get all the benefits.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: So they have their caste system also. It was created out of envy...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: ...for the... That's all.

Prabhupāda: I think I have discussed this.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Marx's failure.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is not our policy that the whole country will be on our side. That is not.... At least some of them may be interested. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yaśodānandana Mahārāja says that the Chinese Bhagavad-gītā is ready for publication.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's at the printer. It will be ready in two weeks.

Revatīnandana: Another interesting thing about China is because they have such a huge population, in order to feed the population they've had to turn to production of agricultural products rather than meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the only way. That is the only way. If you want to make them happy.... That we are preaching in the Bhagavad-gītā. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce grains. Everyone will eat nicely, and they will be happy.

Revatīnandana: Not only are they increasing grains, but because it's so much more economical to produce grains than to produce animals...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is natural.

Revatīnandana: ...they are largely vegetarian.

Prabhupāda: That is natural.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rādhāvallabha: In one BTG article, you described increase in women population as a natural disaster.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rādhāvallabha: So when one woman read this article, she became very angry. She came back and was very angry.

Prabhupāda: She may be angry. She is woman and man. Actually this is physiological. If a man is too much addicted to sex life, he'll become impotent, and if he begets child, it will be a girl. With no potency to give birth to a male child.... That requires potency.

Haṁsadūta: When we were going around in London making life members, I noticed that in so many families, all the children are girls.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole world is full of girls, girl children. Why? There is no potency. Potency finished. Or impotent. And if you keep one boy brahmacārī, no sex life, and get him married, the first child must be a boy, must be, without any doubt.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Fruits also?

Devotee (1): They're just some kind of little string bean.

Akṣayānanda: Like a bean.

Devotee (1): Birds and camels eat the bean.

Jayādvaita: Our ISKCON population rate is less.

Yaśodānandana: However, in some of our centers it tends to increase quite a bit.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you made the statement the other morning that if someone kills a young child, it is condemned. So if someone is killing the young child within the womb, that also should be condemned.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Simply that they have no clear idea what consciousness is and what life is. Therefore all these things are going on.

Prabhupāda: All rascals. How they are risking their own life, karma-bandhana. Just like a thief. He is thinking "I am doing very nice business. Without any..., I am getting so much money." That is risky.

Morning Walk -- April 13, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: But the way the modern civilized nations are exploiting the resources of the world, another fifty years there will be no resources left, and civilization automatically will die out.

Prabhupāda: Wars. The occasional war, pestilence, famine, that's all.

Dr. Patel: Even there is no war, sir, or no pestilence, the population...

Prabhupāda: There will be war. Because you are dissatisfied, I am dissatisfied, on some little provocation we fight. Nobody is happy. I have seen in Allahabad. Little provocation, two brothers fought so much, one brother was killed immediately. Then, when he was ordered to be hanged, his father appealed that "I am the father. One son I have already lost. If he is hanged, then my.... You hang me, my good man(?)." Then he excused him and he actually was.... Upon the father's appeal. I have seen it.

Dr. Patel: They are very fortunate people.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they were Bengalis.

Dr. Patel: Bengalis are highly, what do you call...

Prabhupāda: Sentimental.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But he thinks there is job. He leaves.

Dr. Patel: Yes, they come here in search of job.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They suffer. They live in the huts and very nasty place, still expecting.

Dr. Patel: But the highly advanced countries like the States, United States, the agricultural.... I mean, this industry is completely contracted. A percentage the population is getting less and less in agriculture than before. Now hardly ten percent, people are...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa advises...

Dr. Patel: Yes, because agriculture, however...

Prabhupāda: Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14).

Dr. Patel: Even though they have got a lot of machinery and all these things, but still, everything's all.... As, for example, chemical industry. Forty-paisa worth for ten rupees.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Mr. Dixon: Yes, I think, ah, if you're looking at the...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is the principle. Actually it is not your land. You come from Europe.

Mr. Dixon: I agree that it's not.

Prabhupāda: But you are now claiming it is your land. The Africans, they are claiming. So much land, you can produce ten times food grains for as many population as there are. Ten times milk is required, food grain is required. That is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).

Mr. Dixon: If we produced all of the foods that we could produce and we literally gave them away to other countries that need them, we'd produce a tremendous disincentive in those countries for their own production. I don't think it's as easy, the world...

Prabhupāda: Production.... You take the total land as God's property, and all the population, they are sons of God. Then whole problem solved. Everything solved. If economic problem is solved, then social, political, religious, philosophical, everything is solved.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: And you can disvertise(?) it from New Zealand or from Australia. There can be very peaceful condition of the whole world. Simply mismanaged by the rascal leaders. Otherwise, people can live very peacefully, eat sumptuously, save time, and there is no necessity of stopping the bare necessities of life. There is arrangement for eating, sleeping, sex life also. But not like fools and rascals. Like sane man. But this modern civilization, it is insane, crazy civilization. There is a little pleasure in sex life—simply sex life, increase sex life, spoiling everything. That is crazy. Eating-eat anything, any nonsense thing, and become a hog. Sleeping-oḥ, there is no limit, twenty-four hours sleeping if it is possible. Go on, this is going on. Eating, sleeping, mating. And defense—and discover atomic weapon, this weapon, that weapon, and kill innocent persons, unnecessarily, defense. This is going on. But everything can be used properly for peaceful condition, and when you become peaceful, no disturbance, then you can very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and your life becomes successful. This is our program. We don't want to stop anything. How it can be stopped? Whatever is the bare neces.... Just like we have taken sannyāsa. What is that? "Oh, we have no sex life only. Otherwise, we are also eating, we are also sleeping." So that is also stopped in good old age. In old age, if a person like me, at the age of eighty years, if I would have shopped for sex life, does it look very good? Young men, they are allowed. That's all right. But a young..., old man is going to the club and spending for sex life so much money. Therefore younger generation, they're allowed gṛhastha life from twenty-five years to fifty years. That's all. After that, stop sex life. Actually, they want to stop population. Then why it, sex, then? No, they'll have sex life, at the same time, no population, kill the children. What is that? Simply sinful life. They will suffer, continue to suffer. So we want to stop that suffering. These rascals, they do not understand. They think, "Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is disturbing." A rascal civilization. So let us try our best.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Hari-śauri: Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: So when it is used for Kṛṣṇa.... Just like these rascals, they do not know. They wanted to use it for themselves. It is ugly, no fruit. We see near Bombay, they have got so many coconuts. How beautiful it is with fruits and leaves. Because we use it for Kṛṣṇa. (indistinct) "Oh, they have got fear(?). The coconuts will fall down on your head." (everyone laughs) And they make it ugly. They kill children, but we, we're training children how they're offering obeisances. We do not kill. We beg them Kṛṣṇa conscious. So our activity all spiritual. (break) ...afraid of population. We say "Create any number of population, but make them Kṛṣṇa conscious." That is our restriction, that if you cannot make your children Kṛṣṇa conscious, then don't beget. And if you can do that, then hundred children can be got. Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. This is our.... We say that if you cannot beget Kṛṣṇa conscious child, don't become father and mo.... And if you can produce Kṛṣṇa conscious children, then become father and mother hundreds of children.

Hari-śauri: The karmīs are always in anxiety about something or other.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Hari-śauri: The karmīs, they're always fearing something.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (2): They think that if the population increases at the rate that it's going now...

Prabhupāda: Well, whatever they think, we say increase any number of population, but make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is our program. We are not afraid of population. They are rascals. They're thinking that they feed people. We don't think that. We know Kṛṣṇa is feeding. But if he's a rascal, we don't want. We don't want to feed the rascals, we want feed the devotees.

Devotee (3): If the population increases at the rate it is now...

Prabhupāda: Let them increase. We don't care for it. We can maintain any number of population. Let them come and become Kṛṣṇa conscious. We're not afraid.

Hari-śauri: It appears from the Kṛṣṇa book that there were many billions of people more on this planet when Kṛṣṇa was here than there is now. And they had no problems then.

Prabhupāda: Not only that, we have got from history. They were begetting hundreds of children. There was no scarcity of food. And who is begetting now one hundred children? Ha? One or two or at utmost.... Utmost eight, ten. Wrong theory, population increasing. Rascal's theory.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Bhagav...

Reporter: Others change.

Prabhupāda: Ah, others may deviate, that's another thing. But the system is not that. You cannot deviate from the Vedic injunction that if you have to follow the ācāryas, just like India is obeying. The mass population or the sane population, they are following the ācāryas. Ācāryas means great teachers, bona fide teachers—perhaps you have heard their name, just like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya. So they are followed, and they are of the same opinion. Millions of years ago, what was the opinion, and that opinion is still there. Ācchā, take for Bhagavad-gītā. And that is.... Not a single Indian who does not accept Bhagavad-gītā as authority. This is besides the foreigners who also take interest so much in Bhagavad-gītā. So far Indians are concerned, even some of the Muhammadans, so apart from Muhammadans, those who are claiming as Hindu, they all accept the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. So this Bhagavad-gītā, they might have changed, but that is not acceptable.

Reporter: I think I covered most questions that I wanted to in the interview. Did you say that somebody would be transcribing?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, I'm going to arrange to have it transcribed.

Reporter: Because there are a lot of things that I couldn't catch, just because I'm not atuned to hearing you, so a lot of words I did not understand. But...

Rāmeśvara: I'll arrange for that.

Reporter: OK.

Rāmeśvara: You'll get it tomorrow.

Reporter: Oh, I enjoyed it very much. Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Mahendra: It won't even cost anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes, free. They can take them free.

Ṛṣabhadeva: They said one of the main reasons is because they are killing the snakes for the skin, the snakes that feed on the rats. They kill so many snakes to get the skin, therefore there's no way to control the rat population.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. It is saved for you. Go and take it.

Mahendra: They wear the snakes and eat the rats.

Prabhupāda: Snake will die of starvation. It is better. You go and eat.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Egypt, they have been able to dig underneath the ground and find the remains of ancient cities. So this is proof of the ancient civilization of Egypt. But they have not found ancient ruins of the cities of Dvārakā or Hastināpura. They do not have such...

Rādhāvallabha: There are ruins in Dvārakā.

Rāmeśvara: So they do not accept that the ancient civilization of India is old, very old.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I read one anthropology book, and it said that about 3,500 years ago in India people were only living in all the caves, and they were simply using stones and things like that, very primitive tools. No knowledge at all.

Mahendra: But they cannot explain how it was that these people evolved, these cavemen evolved such a language as Sanskrit, which not even the greatest scholar today can even begin to comprehend. It is a very great language.

Prabhupāda: That is their grudge. When they see such exalted literature, they are envious.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Many modern sociologists, they are predicting that in twenty or thirty years the population will increase so much on this planet that the cities will be very, very crowded, and there will be many, many new problems: no room for so many cars and not enough food, not enough housing. They predict very, very.... And then the result will be rioting. So many people will not have enough food and good places to live that they will...

Prabhupāda: So why don't you go back to home, back to Godhead? (laughs) We are trying to save them. Why you are rotting in this problem? (out of car) That reporter?

Rāmeśvara: "No obstacle."

Hari-śauri: "Death is not a problem."

Prabhupāda: They are predicting so many problems, and still the rascals will say there is no problem. Padaṁ yad vipadām. The material world is so made that in every step there is problems. (break) ...na teṣām.

Rāmeśvara: They say that as the population increases in the cities, there must be rioting and fighting. There will be so many people without the minimum necessities of life, so much exploitation of the rich upper class.

Prabhupāda: Why not go to New Vrindaban? That they will not do.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Scientists will do that, but we shall take milk preparations.

Hari-śauri: We will drink milk, and they can drink their urine.

Candanācārya: ...scientist, Buckminster Fuller, who doesn't agree with the other scientists. He says that with proper organization the entire population of the planet could live in California.

Rāmeśvara: (indistinct) (break)

Candanācārya: ...density that we already have some population like in China and things like that.

Prabhupāda: In Los Angeles we find so many houses: "Now Renting." (break)

Rādhāvallabha: They told us in school that in India there are so many people, practically you cannot even move. But when we go to India we see there is miles and miles of empty land, simply a few cities where it's crowded.

Prabhupāda: Cities are crowded. Village? Very nice. (break)

Nalinīkaṇṭha: ...there were so many people just in India that Mahārāja Ugrasena had ten quadrillion bodyguards alone.

Prabhupāda: At that time the India was whole planet.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are getting daily fresh vegetable, fresh milk. It is very palatable.

Mādhavānanda: We wanted to have a cow here, but they won't allow one within the city limits.

Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. The government is rākṣasa. So you have to take charge of the government. First of all make propaganda, the majority of population may (be) in favor of you. Then you'll get vote. This is the easiest process. If majority people likes, that "These Kṛṣṇa conscious men are very nice," then you make a candidate—"Vote for Kṛṣṇa conscious person, such and such." They'll vote. In this way, you'll capture the Senate, then government, then President's office. It is very.... At least, there must be majority of the people sympathizers of this movement. Then it will be successful. So you do everything exemplified, and people will vote. But it is difficult in this way, that "These people are prohibiting intoxication and gambling. How we can live without this?" That is the difficulty. They cannot imagine even that without these things one can live. Is it not?

Hari-śauri: It's a fact. If you stop them doing that, they'll have no activity, just working.

Rakṣaṇa: We should expand our New Bhakta program so that they can have weekend stays in āśramas, have practical experience.

Prabhupāda: That they are coming.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say culture, not training.

Stansky: As a matter of fact, even among the educated classes in the United States, there is no culture. There are no cultural roots.

Prabhupāda: No, no culture. There is no culture. There is no standard social life. Simply hodgepodge. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only hope to bring everything in proper order. Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. So America is the leading nation of the world. If you work on the principle of Bhagavad-gītā and train up your people, it will be ideal state and example for the whole world. At least a certain section of the American population should be ideal. That will also do. Not that..., we cannot expect cent percent will take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not needed. But if there is one section of the people ideal, that will be followed. We want to create that section, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No, one brāhmaṇa, half brāhmaṇa will do. Only one hand will do.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Okay. "According to Ṛddha dāsa brahmacārī, head of the local mission, the festival of the chariots glorifies Lord Jagannātha. The Lord of the universe and the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra by people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds in cities in the world over has turned into a truly international event. Durban, with its large Hindu population, is aware of the divine status of Lord Kṛṣṇa, and we pray that by organizing our own chariot festival, we will be able to extend our message to a wider audience."

Prabhupāda: Do it immediately; they are eager. Begin this year. Yes, they'll get life, the Hindus. Immediately advise them. Just like I began in San Francisco on the truck. You know that? So you can begin in that way.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was the first ratha cart?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I suggested Śyāmasundara that on a truck you make a ratha-like dome, and put this. It was successful.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It was in New York?

Prabhupāda: It was San Francisco. The first beginning was in San Francisco.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Polestar is fixed, that is fact. And all.... It is like pivot. Everyone round, round. Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham (BG 15.1). This tree is spread downwards. The root is upward.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The scientists also say all of the stars are moving around. But they don't see the earth as moving around.

Prabhupāda: Why not? What is this nonsense? If all the stars can move, what is the earth? That is their nonsense. Only earth is populated, everywhere is vacant. (laughter) In the Bhāgavata it is said every planet is full of living entities. Jana-pūrṇa. Perhaps I have explained, in my recent.... jana-kīrṇa. Jana-kīrṇa means full of living entities.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Last chapter of the Seventh Canto.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And these rascals say there is no life in other.... Moon planet is accepted as the heavenly planet, and these rascals say "It is sand. And we have brought the sand." It is one of the heavenly planets.

Jayādvaita: Some scientists have started a project. They are beaming radio messages into space because they think perhaps there is someone intelligent there, and they will beam back something.

Prabhupāda: Their knowledge is "perhaps." It is nonsense. They have no definite knowledge. "Perhaps." Perhaps is not knowledge.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Kathy Kerr: If a sufficient number of people could take care of their spirits, could achieve an understanding of the spiritual body and so forth, do you think that that would solve, say for instance...

Prabhupāda: It is not possible that, because, at the present moment the number of educated persons, there are many. Many Ph.D.'s, D.H.C.'s but nobody understands it. You cannot expect a fair number of persons understanding it. It requires little higher brain. But even some percent of the population understands this philosophy, then there will be peace and prosperity. Not that everyone. Just like in my body, not that every part of my body is brain. But if the brain is in order, then other parts of the body will act nicely. The leg is not brain, but if the brain is in order, the leg will move nicely. The difficulty is there is no brain. So without brain, without head, when the body moves it is ghost. So it is ghostly civilization. All ghosts. There is a kind of ghost, perhaps you know, that without head. If a man is chopped of his head, and if he has got attraction, then he becomes a ghost without head. So at the present moment, all these so-called educated civilized men are ghosts without head. You now this, there is some ghosts without head?

Jayādvaita: I hadn't heard about them.

Prabhupāda: No, in India they know. And I have described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Kīrtanānanda: I think it was just ten years ago when I first met you.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I never said that "You have to give up this, you have to do this." Never said. Then gradually ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). When the heart becomes cleansed, then little. There is no hopelessness. So many people have come, and they are coming. Both black, white, everyone is coming. There is no question of (indistinct). But you cannot expect that cent percent people will come; that is not possible. But even, even one-fourth percent people come to this, then it will be successful. Compared to the American population, what percentage we have got? Still they have made some impression, the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Literatures are selling, they are appreciating, learned circle. Takes some time, but if we stick to our principles and do not make any compromise and push on—in this way, I have given you instruction, it will never stop; it will go on. It will never stop. At least for ten thousand years it will go on.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Even in the stool, the worms in the stool, he's also thinking "I have got so much stool to eat." This same mastership. "I am the monarch of all I survey. I have got so much stool." And you just take the worm from the stool, put it here: "No, no, no, here is my enjoyment." This mastership mentality is there in Brahma, and the mastership mentality is there in the worm of the stool. This mentality you have to give up. Then you become liberated. That is liberation. The bondage is that mastership mentality. He's servant, but he's thinking falsely that he's master. Just like your President Nixon. He thought that "Now I have become master of America, I'm president." He forgot that he's servant. As soon as the people wanted, dragged him down. That he forgot, that "I'm servant of the people." So everyone is servant, but falsely thinking "I'm master." That is material disease. The best thing is that if I have to remain servant, why not become servant of Kṛṣṇa? That's all. That is perfection. That is perfect life. Even by becoming a false master of the whole American country, I was not happy, I am now dragged down as a common man, Mr. Nixon, then what is the use of becoming master? It is all false. Let me become servant of Kṛṣṇa; then it is perfect. Instead of becoming a false master of the American country, let me be a real servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is liberty, liberated. Because any stage of my life, to become master is false. That is not possible. He has to be convinced that he cannot be master. Your constitution is to remain servant. If you prefer to remain servant of a big populace in America... But you are servant; don't think you are master. That is sane. And soon as you commit mistake as master, immediately he's in trouble. Is it not? That's it. You give up this false notion that "I am master." Then your all welfare is there. We teach that ask a Godbrother, "Prabhu." Don't become master, but become servant. Prabhu means "my lord." So everyone, if you address each other "prabhu," that mastership mentality will be less. If you remember that "I am not master. I am servant."

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The Lord incarnated Himself as Buddha and decried the authority of the Vedas to stop animal sacrifice in the name of religion. This was foreseen by Nārada, and therefore he condemned such literatures. The flesh eaters still continue to perform animal sacrifice before some demigod or goddess in the name of religion, because in some of the Vedic literatures such regulated sacrifice is recommended. They are so recommended to discourage flesh eating, but gradually the purpose of such religious activities is forgotten and the slaughterhouse becomes prominent. This is because foolish materialistic men do not care to listen to others who are actually in a position to explain the Vedic rites. In the Vedas it is distinctly said that the perfection of life is never to be attained either by voluminous work or by accumulation of wealth or even by increasing the number of population, but it is so attained only by renunciation. The materialistic men do not care to listen to such injunctions. According to them, the so-called renounced order of life is meant for those who are unable to earn their livelihood because of some corporeal defects or for persons who have failed to achieve prosperity in family life. In histories like the Mahābhārata, of course, there are topics on transcendental subjects along with material topics. The Bhagavad-gītā is there in the Mahābhārata. The whole idea of the Mahābhārata is culminated in the ultimate instructions of the Bhagavad-gītā, that one should relinquish all other engagements and should engage oneself solely and fully in surrendering unto the lotus feet of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly stated that out of many hundreds and thousands of men, only one person deserves to enter into transcendental realization, and out of many thousands of such transcendentally realized persons, only a few can understand the theological science specifically dealing with God as a person. Śrī Vyāsadeva is therefore advised by Nārada to describe the science of God directly by relating His transcendental activities. Vyāsadeva is himself a personality expert in this science, and he is unattached to material enjoyment; therefore he is the right person to describe it. And Sukadeva Gosvāmī, the son of Vyāsadeva, is the right person to receive it. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the topmost theological science, and therefore it can react on the layman as medicinal doses. Because it contains the transcendental activities of the Lord, there is no difference between the Lord and the literature. The literature is the factual literary incarnation of the Lord so the laymen can hear the narration of the activities of the Lord. Thereby they are able to associate with the Lord and thus gradually become purified from material diseases. The expert devotees also can discover novel ways and means to convert the nondevotee in terms of particular time and circumstance. Devotional service is dynamic activity, and the expert devotees can find out competent means to inject it into the dull brains of the materialistic population. Such transcendental activities of the devotees for the service of the Lord can bring a new order of life to the foolish society of materialistic men. Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His subsequent followers exhibited expert dexterity in this connection. By following the same method one can bring the materialistic men of this age of quarrel into order for peaceful life and transcendental realization."

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Another part of this same question: if the harijanas, who constitute a sizable population amongst the Hindus, are made to feel that their very religion...

Prabhupāda: These are all artificial. The harijana word was used by Gandhi unnecessarily for a class of men who are not fit for the position. Harijana means "the men of Hari." Just like Nārada. Nārada is called harijana. Great devotee is called harijana, "the persons related with Hari." But if you select some bhangis and camaras and keep them as he is and rubberstamp it, "Here is a harijana," what will be the effect? There is no harm to pick up a low class man and to elevate him to the position of harijana. There is no impediment. You can do. But if you keep him a low class man and if you stamp him harijana, then what will be benefit? Just like we are initiating selected men. "Are you ready to follow these rules and regulation? When he says, then "Come on. Become harijana." Not that "I'll keep myself in that same abominable condition of life and I shall become harijana." So this "harijana" word has come from Gandhi. He did not try to make him real harijana. He simply rubberstamped him. So what is the value of this harijana?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's another section to this question. In other words, how can all sections of Hindus be made to take an equal interest and have the same sense of belonging to the Hindu religion?

Prabhupāda: Why you sticking to the Hindu religion? Any Hindu will accept Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa. So why not ask them to take Kṛṣṇa? Why so-called Hinduism? Who is a Hindu who will deny the authority of Kṛṣṇa? Is he a Hindu? Every Hindu observes Janmāṣṭamī, the birthday of Kṛṣṇa. So why do they not take Kṛṣṇa's advice and remain practically Hindu? They will not take advice of Kṛṣṇa, and they, how they can claim to be Hindu?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So can all people have an equal interest in religion despite their different classifications?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already explained, that any human civilized man, he has got some religion. So religion, basic principle of religion is with reference to God. So here is God, What God says, if you take that system, then it will be perfect, not only for the Hindus, for Christian, for Mohammedans, for everyone. And that is being practically done in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We have got devotees from all groups of human society and they are taking to it. It is practical. There is no difficulty. So Hindus, Muslims, Christian, everyone take to this Kṛṣṇa religion, Kṛṣṇite. Kṛṣṇian. (laughter) Not Christian, but Kṛṣṇian. The word christo is also a Greek word. From this christo the Christ has come. So instead of c-h-r-i, k-r-i, the same thing. Christian or Kṛṣṇian, or Christian. Krishta is also another broken, I mean, another spelling of Kṛṣṇa. In India, if one's name is Kṛṣṇa, we say Krishta. My younger brother, his name was Kṛṣṇa. So we were calling him Krishta. So Krishta, Christian. So actually, if we take the root meaning, Christian means Krishnian or Krishtian. So that is a controversial point, but everyone can take to Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will be settled up. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). Make everything clear.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you give milk to the children? Give him blood.

Rūpānuga: They say past a certain age...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this propaganda-milk is bad—so why from the very beginning you give milk to the children?

Rūpānuga: Actually, in America they do not feed the children by the breast. They use cow's milk practically from birth.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There was an article in the newspaper about that today. Very interesting. It said in the newspaper that if women stop breast feeding their children they will have to increase the population of dairy cows tremendously. A very small percentage do now.

Prabhupāda: They have to increase?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: More and more cows to produce enough milk to feed children.

Prabhupāda: And therefore we are killing children. There is no problem, we shall kill our.... Why do you call? Let us kill, wholesale. And go to ball dance.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: So he used to cut them, the head?

Hari-śauri: Yes, two of them he did. And then the Catholic Church excommunicated him.

Prabhupāda: Therefore in Vedic civilization they keep, they have more than one wife. So what is the use of killing? Why one should kill? We find from the history, Dhruva Mahārāja's mother and stepmother, there were some critical words, and Dhruva Mahārāja became very, very angry. So the critical words and wives, different wives, that may be, but why one should cut off the head? Dhruva Mahārāja's mother said when Dhruva Mahārāja began to cry before the mother, mother said "My dear child, what can I do? How can I help you? Your father does not care for me, even as maidservant, what to speak of I am queen, I am the senior queen. So this gentleman does not care of me even as maidservant. How can I help you? If God helps you, then..." That was her statement. So that does not mean because the king did not like, she should be beheaded. What is this nonsense? If he is,(?)... may be... After all, he is king. He may not like first wife. Actually, there was no scarcity of comfort, but liking may not be, but that does not mean that she shouldn't be accepted as wife. Kings were allowed to marry more than one wife. Why to accept another wife means another wife should be killed? What is this? Everything nonsense. King can marry more than one wife. And at the time of marriage they were given so many woman. Because the woman population is greater than the man, always. So when the King is married, along with the queen, many other friends of the queen they would go with the king. They live in the same palace, same palace. Sometimes they had children, dāsī-putra. Just like Vidura. Vidura was not queen's son. One of these women friends. So that was allowed.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The American soldiers, they were simply taking intoxication, hunting after prostitutes and running from the enemy.

Prabhupāda: And when they were attacked, they were running away. Because they are śūdras. How they can fight? They are not trained up as kṣatriyas. Huh? Anyone who is unemployed, let him become a soldier, but he cannot fight. That is not possible. Neither this class of men can have good brain to give direction to the society. The democracy means anyone can go to the government, and because he's not kṣatriya, his only business is how to get money so long he's on the post. Just like you did not like your President, Mr. Nixon. So that is the risk. If you keep the society in chaotic condition, any department, intellectual, administration, production, they'll be all topsy turvey, and there cannot be any peace in the world. So this Vedic scheme, varṇāśrama, is a very important scheme. If possible it should be introduced and taken up very seriously. That is one of the items of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to reestablish the institution of varṇa and āśrama. Not by birth, but by qualification. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Guṇa-karma, by quality. In India, the varṇāśrama is there, but it is not organized because the government does not take care. The government is imitating Western way of life, "There is no need of brāhmaṇa, there is no need of kṣatriya, simply śūdras." Everywhere this is the position, the śūdra population, kalau śūdra sambhavaḥ. In this age everyone is a śūdra. So it doesn't matter, everyone is born śūdra, but he should be trained up. Just like in our practical life we see that everyone is not born a scientist or engineer or lawyer. Everyone is born innocent, child, then he's trained up by the guardians. Similarly, there should be a training how to become brāhmaṇa, how to become kṣatriya, how to become vaiśya. And the government should see that everyone, as he is trained up, he is working according to his quality and occupational duty. Then there will be complete peace and harmony. That human society is perfect.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: How there can be, because the democracy? You are corrupt, therefore your government is corrupt. You correct yourself, the government will be automatically corrected. If you are rascals, the government will be rascals. The government means elected. So if you are not rascal, you'll not elect another rascal to take charge of the government affairs. But because you are rascal, you'll send another rascal. So how can you expect good government? You do not know whom to select. And besides that, the whole population is rascal, śūdra. So anyone you elect, if he's by qualification he's a śūdra, worker, he's not intelligent person, he's not brāhmaṇa, he's not kṣatriya. Actually, the legislative assembly, or in your country, Senate? They should be all brāhmaṇas. They give advice. Formerly this was the system. Although it was monarchy, even Lord Rāmacandra or similar kings, they were not ruling independently—they were taking advice from learned brāhmaṇas, sages. So the legislative assembly should be composition of intellectual brāhmaṇas. Then the other administrators, the President or the minister, they should be kṣatriyas. In this way, if social organization is made, then there will be perfect peace. If śūdras are allowed to rule over, what they know? Their only aim is that so long he is in the office, "Let me collect some money," that's all. And that will be the latest atmosphere, dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Rājanyair dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. All the government men will become thieves and rogues. Dasyu, dasyu means thieves and rogues. So as the thieves and rogues capture you on the street and ask "Whatever you have got, give, otherwise I shall kill you," so this will be the position in the Kali-yuga. It is happening now. You cannot have any private property; everything you have to declare. Otherwise, it will be taken by force.

Arrival Comments in Car to Temple -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, zoo, zoology.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Zoo, zoology. Yes, Central Park Zoo is on about Sixty-fourth Street, Sixty-fifth Street, just off of the east.

Prabhupāda: All big, big buildings.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's New York. The population now of the greater New York area is eighteen million.

Prabhupāda: Eighteen million?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It was ten million.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it has very much increased now. That includes the outlying...

Prabhupāda: How it has increased?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it includes the outlying suburbs which have become very developed.

Rāmeśvara: Long Island, it includes Long Island.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just as many people are living here now, and many, many more people are living on the outskirts.

Rāmeśvara: And Queens.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Queens and Brooklyn, much more people are living there than before. Queens and Long Island especially.

Prabhupāda: So Bali-mardana is doing all right?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he and I stay together. We get up at two-thirty in the morning, chant sixteen rounds before ārati, saying Gāyatrī strictly on time, eating very little, and he reads a great deal of the day, two or three hours he reads, and he's also preaching, giving classes.

Arrival Comments in Car to Temple -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Is there any hour limit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Two or three hours it will take. You've got to get on the right side, Jayānanda.

Prabhupāda: It appears more congested than before.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, business is increasing.

Prabhupāda: Population are increased.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They had a festival to celebrate the Fourth of July in the Battery, down at Battery Park. Four million people attended. We sold prasādam there, over one thousand dollars of prasādam (laughs) was sold from our prasādam cart.

Prabhupāda: They like?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. They were selling kacuris, sandwiches.

Prabhupāda: This Doubleday Company, they take our books?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah...

Rāmeśvara: I don't know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm not sure.

Rāmeśvara: I don't know. Generally the bookstores, they don't take our books because our distributors are distributing on the street in front of the bookstore, they say it is competition. But the college bookstores, they all take our books. We just got a report from Satsvarūpa Mahārāja that this past month of June in America they sold seventy-five standing orders. And that is remarkable, because all the schools are closed in June, and still they sold them books. They closed for the summer, and still they are ordering your books.

Prabhupāda: In this street I think there is one library office...

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned that in previous ages when there was yajña taking place on this planet, sometimes the demigods would come down. So that means that is it possible that they would be communicating with the people of this planet?

Prabhupāda: Hm. They're speaking Sanskrit language. In all other planets they are speaking Sanskrit.

Hari-śauri: You also said they had the ability to make themselves visible or invisible to the population. Actually, they have many sightings of what they call UFO's, so-called spaceships and things like this, or things that they cannot explain but the government doesn't release the information because they think that people will panic. Sometimes aircraft pilots, they've reported that their aircrafts are being inspected while they're up in the air.

Prabhupāda: Inspection?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Who inspects?

Hari-śauri: Well they don't know who. But there's all kinds of things that they can't explain, but they don't release the information. What the scientists can't explain they won't tell anyone.

Rāmeśvara: After they claimed they have landed on the moon they announced that they wanted to build a gigantic dome on the moon's surface and within the dome they would have these pumps pumping air and in that way earth people could go to the moon and live there.

Prabhupāda: So what happened to their project? Stopped now?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're going to do it on Mars instead.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Read. What does it say?

Pṛthu-putra: (translating) (sic:) "The classical induries(?) based on sacred scriptures from which the eighteen great Purāṇas has a central place. These vast poems, their character give theologic teaching is giving all the knowledge of the Veda, and in the substance of the Purāṇa there is the face of the Indian populations. While reciting them in the temples and the preacher are giving commentaries in the assembly of devotees, which is called sankīrtana. This teaching read to the chant and dancing on the glories of the Lord Bhagavān. Amongst all these Purāṇas, the most famous is the Bhāgavata-Purāṇa, called Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, because this literary form is achieved the most beautiful, and also because it's the poem which is expressing the best the doctrine of the faith that Sri Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, Purusottama, the principle of everything, the absolute unique without second, advaitam-brahman. Like in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā, the Lord reveals His majesty in plain. Much more than an avatara of Visnu, He appears in our eyes like the unique God. Towards Him all devotion is due. The French people are honored to have, from the beginning of the nineteenth century, to have the first edition of Bhāgavata-Purāṇa, but from long time already this work of the great Beurnuf"—that's the man who translated Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in nineteenth century in French—"is the reason why we have to thank very much the association, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, to give us that very big text, one of the master book of the humanity. This book is very benefic, and with the translation of the Sanskrit there is a commentary, the majestical commentary, which is given verse after verse by the master, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder of the association. As he did it with the Bhagavad-gītā, which was published in French in 1975 with the preface of a Professor Harvi Delacombe, Swami Prabhupāda explains word by word each mantra -stanza or sacred text-before to give a signification. Then the reader can judge every pieces, what is the meaning of the teaching of the master by confrontation with the text itself..."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: They expect like that?

George Harrison: Well, I don't know. I think the whole world's changing. Somebody said it's the pollution, leaves so much..., there's so much of the oceans now with polluted and with oil on the top, there's not so much evaporation anymore.

Prabhupāda: Not in the ocean. It is the sinful activities of the populace. That is real problem. They are all engaged in sinful activities. Especially this innocent animal killing. These are the all reaction.

Gurudāsa: In New York they had one island of refuse floated in to shore. For years they were building up island of refuse, and it floated in, and now no one can go to the beaches.

Prabhupāda: Samosa. Where is samosa? There is only one left?

George Harrison: I'm okay, actually.

Devotee (2): There is sour cream.

George Harrison: I've got plenty, thanks.

Prabhupāda: Prasada, we can eat up to the neck. (laughter) There is no harm. You'll never get indigestion. You have got some fruits?

George Harrison: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Devotee (1): Now they have published pictures of Mars.

Prabhupāda: Let them do that, befool others. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). Because others, they are blind, this blind man, whatever he says, they believe. They will say "Perhaps ten millions of years ago there was life, perhaps." These things are going on. But we know every planet is full of living entity. There is regular life and there are streets. The streets are paved with pearls, corals, in Svargaloka. We have got information. And what is their information? Scratching some sand and bring it, that's all. As if sand is not available. But we give information there are planets where the pavements are with pearls. Go and bring some pearls. There is the ocean of milk. Bring some milk from there. And then we shall understand that you are making some research. Simply all over the universe dry sand? And here the population is increasing. Just see. We have to believe all this. Everything is by nature vacant and all people and animals are here. And we have to believe that. Hmm. Read it. They are exposing more and more about their nonsensical scientific inquiry.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Yes. In our childhood, these tomatoes were called foreign eggplant, bilāti beguna. And because it was foreign, nobody will touch it. In our childhood we'd never eat the tomato. It was rejected by whole Indian Hindu culture.

Harikeśa: Tomatoes don't grow in India?

Prabhupāda: No. It was imported. Because it was imported they would not touch. The mill cloth, because they were imported, no gentleman will touch. No religious function would allow to use mill-made cloth. And so far medicine is concerned, they would never touch it. This is the difficulty... (indistinct) sent a confidential report that if you want to keep Indians as Indian you'll never be able to do like that. Then they will gradually introduce all this nonsense, drinking tea, drinking wine. "You are uncivilized. Whatever British are doing, they are civilized way. England's work in India." And they were given facilities, those who were English educated. In this way, they first of all tried to make the whole Indian population Anglici... Not possible to all. At least, those who are educated. So the so-called Indian educated, they took it seriously. Just like our Bon Mahārāja. English way of living, with fork and... Yes. He has taken it seriously. He is under impression, whatever is foreign. In this way Indian culture was killed. The Muhammadans, they had no such idea. They wanted to rule over, that's all. And the money was not going to outside They were spending lavishly—in India. The money was in India, but these people, they're dispersing all the money, jewels, and everything valuable, outside India. So they became poverty-stricken. And culturally conquered. (aside) Not so many. This will be enough.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Mrs. Patel: So it was just as good as born there. I was just six months baby when I was taken there.

Prabhupāda: Tokyo?

Mrs. Patel: Kobe.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Kobe. Oh, in Kobe there are many...

Mrs. Patel: Many, eleven years I stayed.

Prabhupāda: I have been there. Many good Indian population. There is a Indian association there. I have been there.

Mrs. Patel: Yes.

Jñānagamya: You are the greatest teacher in recorded history, Prabhupāda, because your movement is so well founded in these books, more so than any religious teacher-Muhammad, Buddha, Jesus Christ. Your movement is perfectly founded even during your own lifetime. All your books are perfectly edited by you. It is truly Lord Caitanya's mercy.

Prabhupāda: Books means solid ground. What we want to preach, it is recorded, not any concocted ideas. There is direction by Rūpa Gosvāmī:

śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-

pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

(Brs. 1.2.101)

Without the support of śruti, smṛti, purāṇa, any religious movement for understanding God is simply disturbance-utpātāyaiva kalpate. Utpāt... That is the... It is the version given by... Even Kṛṣṇa, He's God Himself, He's speaking, He's giving reference to the Vedānta-sūtra: brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ (BG 13.5). So without reference to the Vedic literature, anything you speak, it has no ground. Śruti-pramāṇa, this is Vedic culture, śruti-pramāṇa. It must be supported by śruti. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta you'll find whenever Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, He gives immediately Vedic evidence, śruti-pramāṇa. Then it is solid. So we are trying to present this movement with śruti-pramāṇa. Our Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will be finished in sixty volumes, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta is already finished in seventeen volumes. So altogether at least we'll have hundred volumes of books, small and big, to give śruti-pramāṇa. This is the example.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I think that is a wrong system (much airplane noise-indistinct) this open Democracy is not a (indistinct) by consensus...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Now, either democracy or monarchy, the population is śūdra. So either you make it democracy or any "crazy," śūdra will be on the power. So they can...

Dr. Patel: In Kali-yuga, sir, the śūdras will rule according to the...

Prabhupāda: Everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Who is going to become brāhmaṇa? We are inviting everyone, "Come here, become brāhmaṇa." Who is interested? He'll go to the factory. Instead of becoming brāhmaṇa he'll be hammerman. In America no students are coming to the philosophical class or higher mathematics class.

Dr. Patel: Mathematics?

Prabhupāda: No. Higher studies, nobody comes. Only technology. The higher class, higher studies class, they are being closed. The professors are getting no job. We have a friend, Dr. Henderson, he is a doctor in higher mathematics, he is not getting job. No students, nobody is interested in higher... Similarly, many other things, and literatures.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, they are feeling the weight. Now they are feeling the weight. That is the progress. Otherwise, if our movement would have been a trifle thing, the government and newspapers they would not have taken care. Now they are feeling that this movement is going to be more and more important, all over the world.

Hari-śauri: They can see we're having an effect.

Pradyumna: The more we go with these traveling parties also, from town to town.

Hari-śauri: Most of the general population, they're already convinced.

Prabhupāda: First thing is that when you take śālagrāma-sevā, wherever you stay, this worship must go on daily.

Pradyumna: Yes, nitya-pūjā, nitya-sevā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you cannot... One day, if you are sick, your wife will do that. But that half an hour pūjā must continue. That you must decide.

Pradyumna: Yes. Yes. I saw those brāhmaṇas in Udupi, they will never fail to do it under any condition. They have little box with śālagrāma, little śaṅkha, little thing, little tulasī leaf they get. They will do that every day daily. They cannot...

Prabhupāda: So both of you are initiated. In case you are little sick, your wife will do. In that platform you have to do it. Sevā shall not be stopped. Gradually as your son grows, he will also do it. So you can purchase one little siṁhāsana. That is available in any utensil shop. All right.

Pradyumna: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian devotee: Especially Prabhupāda, when there is a famine, where there is no more food... They had big famine...

Prabhupāda: Food, that is punishment. It is not the... Famine is punishment from the side of nature. She'll not supply to the rākṣasas. That is a punishment. Otherwise, there is no question of population. You may have as many... Just like the birds and beasts. They do not care for... They have got enough food. But they do not violate the laws of the nature.

Harikeśa: One may argue that in nature there is this leveling out of the species, that one species kills another off so that the population is maintained at the proper level.

Prabhupāda: No species killed by another species. It is rascal proposal.

Harikeśa: Well, members of the species are killed by...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Jīvasya jīva... jivo jīvanam. One animal is eating another animal. That is another thing. But that does not mean species finished. That is nonsense.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Harikeśa: Well, members of the species are killed by...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Jīvasya jīva... jivo jīvanam. One animal is eating another animal. That is another thing. But that does not mean species finished. That is nonsense.

Harikeśa: No, I didn't mean. So the human being, the animals can't kill off the human being so that the people have to do it.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Harikeśa: The people have to do it to maintain the population level. We have to kill some of the children so that it doesn't become out of control, like the animals do it.

Prabhupāda: You are less than animal. You are greatest animal. You want to kill your children.

Vāsu Ghoṣa: But they have no life. There is only you know an amoeba in the womb.

Prabhupāda: Don't talk nonsense, waste time. All rascals proposal. Don't indulge in this rascal theory.

Indian devotee: Now there is a society for prevention to the cruelty to animals. At the same time they are killing the animals also.

Mahāṁsa: They think they can adjust and control.

Prabhupāda: Mūḍha.

Room Conversation -- September 16, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Drumstick. So the transport is a dangerous thing.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, this is a scheme.

Prabhupāda: A local man cannot get. He's starving. And the man in big cities, he's doing nothing, he simply has got paper to sign and paper money he's attracting. All production. And they are starving. This is modern civilization. Everything, milk, vegetables, fish, everything, this chānā. Otherwise, within the village you can get everything. Village economy. Everything very cheap. And as soon as they got these transport facilities, the local men, they could not eat, and these lazy rascals, they are getting everything. Big, big cities like Calcutta, Bombay, they (have) millions of population. They are not producing anything. The producer is different man. They are simply artificially cheating them by paper money and they take. This is modern civilization.

Haṁsadūta: And on the basis of this transporting of food, other industries grow. Like for instance packing. Sometimes the package costs more than the item which is being packaged.

Prabhupāda: Especially in your country. Packing is more important than the... They sent me some presentation in a huge package.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: So that is your interpretation. But we are trying to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our mission. That you produce food grains sufficiently and give protection to the cows so that food grains and milk will give you all benefits of economic question. You'll be satisfied. That's all. Not only that, I have practically seen that by God's arrangement there are so much land on this planet that you can produce ten times food stuff of the whole population. But they are not doing that. They are utilizing land... Just like in Africa I have seen, enough land is there, but what they are doing? They are keeping some cows and bulls, and when they are grown up... They are not given anything to eat. There is enough grass. And as soon as they are fatty, they are taken to the slaughterhouse. Not for their own eating, but exporting. This business is going on. Similar business is going on in Australia and New Zealand. Unnecessarily they are killing these cows, and this shortage of foodstuff and shortage of milk, this is not good arrangement. The recommended process in the Bhagavad-gītā, that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). If you have sufficient foodstuff, then everyone is satisfied. And it is the duty of the vaiśya class, kṛṣi go-rakṣya vāṇijyam (BG 18.44); go-rakṣya vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam. The, according to Bhagavad-gītā, this is the business of the vaiśyas. The brāhmaṇas, they should be very much highly educated, enligthened in spiritual knowledge. The kṣatriyas, they should govern, give protection. The vaiśyas, they should produce enough food. And those who are neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya, śūdras, they can help. That's all. This is their.... Then everyone will be satisfied. The society will go on. Just like in your body you require brain, the head, you require arms, you require belly, you require legs. Similarly, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. That is essential. If you have simply brain and no leg then it is also useless. There must be brain and leg also. There must be brāhmaṇa, there must be śūdra, there must be.... Then the social arrangement is perfect.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: And the most dangerous point is that young men are taking part.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The future of the country.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means it will continue. Young men they take anything very seriously. So this movement is threatening the—what is called?—the foundation of material civilization in the western countries. That's a fact. The foundation is threatened. Their whole foundation is this: meat-eating, illicit sex, gambling and intoxication. They have no other formula. Lord Zetland, when he was asking one of my godbrothers, that "Can you make me brāhmaṇa?" So "Yes, why not? You follow." He said "It is impossible for us. It is impossible for us. And we are no one(?)." That's a fact. If some percentage of the population, European and American population, take it seriously, then it will be dangerous for their government, their economic situation, that's a fact. That, our Sudāmā Vipra is saying that, theatrical...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Sudāmā Swami is in New York.

Hari-śauri: Sudāmā Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Ha! And whole situation is threatened. Caitanya Mahāprabhu movement. Have you seen that?

Hari-śauri: That play.

Prabhupāda: Play.

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jagadīśa: They are answering rains. (?)

Prabhupāda: What their answer, these rascals? Just like in Europe there is scarcity of water, they proposed to import, rascal. But there are so many oceans. So where is the scarcity of water? But why you cannot use it? Unless there is intervention by the nature's law you cannot do it. Therefore you are completely under the laws of nature. Nature will punish you, nature will reward you, according to your acts. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27), ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. You are falsely thinking that you are independent. A slight deviation from the laws of nature will put you into difficulty. Immediately there are... You can close this door. (break) ...population. In any case, one can be punished when the nature's supply is restricted. (break)

Jagadīśa: Third Chapter.

yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo

mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ

bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā

ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt

(BG 3.13)

Prabhupāda: So in order to release ourself from the sinful reaction of sinful activity, we must perform yajña. And in this age the easiest process of yajña is saṅkīrtana-yajña. (long pause) So what are the problem?

Jagadīśa: Under "problems" are... There are some general problems such as taxes.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: Taxes. Taxation.

Prabhupāda: Hm, taxation. So that is... You have created problem. When you transgress the laws of nature, this, there is shortage of supply. And the government, on this plea they will tax to mitigate your miseries. Actually they will not be able to mitigate your miseries, but on the plea of your miseries they will levy taxes and divide amongst themselves. So this is another way of punishment because the government is your government. Because you are rascal, so you elect some, another rascal. And they invent ways of rascaldom to mitigate your miseries. To avoid taxation means you become good man and you select your ruler, good men. Then there will be no taxation.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Oh, Taksila.

Mr. Malhotra: No Taksila was in Punjab, that side. In Bengal, Bihar, that...

Prabhupāda: Tarbanga.

Mr. Malhotra: I visited that. So this was the seat of very old temples, oldest temples in this place, this Haya. (?) And they say this is one of the oldest of the oldest towns or cities of the country. Small place, Pasir, with a population of about 10-15,000 people. All the temples are in the Kṛṣṇā River, in the Kṛṣṇā river. (break) Whatever I am today, that is all due to my past karmas, good or bad, I mean.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Malhotra: And whatever I am doing today, that I will have to reap the harvest in the future.

Prabhupāda: You are creating the next position.

Mr. Malhotra: So that means that I am bound by my past karmas. My destiny, my fate is tied with the past karmas. So I have no other goal but to have the phala of past karmas. Or can I change my fate?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are enjoying the past karmas, and you are creating new karmas.

Mr. Malhotra: But this means a circle that I'll always be.

Prabhupāda: Karma-cakra.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: How there will be followers? If there is some program, then there will be followers.

Dr. Patel: He wanted to defend the commoners. He wanted to defend the order (indistinct). But he unfortunately died.

Prabhupāda: Everyone will die. But (Hindi). If you do something tangible, then you will live. And if you do something fictitious, then with your death everything is gone. (Hindi) But here the whole population is duṣkṛti. They are kṛti, but they are doing something wrong: duṣkṛti. How? Prapanna prapa jante mām. This is a miscon..., mischievous activity. Because he has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, whatever he has done, it is all mischievous. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Why he has done mischievous activities, mūḍha? The only test is, if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, whatever he does it is all mischievous. So immediately go and you'll see.

Devotee: Yes.

Mahāṁsa: Every morning we go on nagara-kīrtana to every village.

Prabhupāda: Mm. Yes, invite them. Invite them. (Hindi)

Devotee: This lady is coming from Germany.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Indian lady?

Devotee: Yes.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Formerly there was airport. The place is called Babroli.

Dr. Patel: You must have seen all these places. You lived there for twenty years.

Gurudāsa: Thirteen or twenty years?

Prabhupāda: Thirteen years.

Dr. Patel: That is sufficient long time to know a place. At that time what was the population of Allahabad? About ten lakhs?

Prabhupāda: No, not so.

Dr. Patel: No, less than that. Ahmedabad was only four lakhs' population before. Now it is twenty lakhs.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere the population is increased. Why?

Dr. Patel: People have more interest because of the industrialization.

Gurudāsa: They attract people. They think they will be happy in the city.

Dr. Patel: Not that. Because they get more easy jobs in the city. You see, jobs.

Gurudāsa: How can they get jobs easy, when so many people are lying on the...

Dr. Patel: It is at least they can have some food. In the small villages they're not having.

Gurudāsa: In small villages food grows out of the ground.

Dr. Patel: They don't want to grow. They want to just give up, go to here.

Gurudāsa: That is an anomaly.

Dr. Patel: I tell you, this vicious propaganda of the government... I have got a small hill, fifteen bigas, on a highway, Bombay highway, with canal waters irrigating my land and a well with pump and everything. Last year we spent nine thousand rupees on fertilizer and all things and other paraphernalia, and pay for the servants. And they got paddy worth six thousand rupees.

Prabhupāda: Three thousand lost.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: It is due to quality of the leaders.

Rāmeśvara: But will it be like Russia where there is only a small group of people who are Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: No, it is not that. The quality of the people will be changed.

Rāmeśvara: So that means the whole mass population...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Only then will Kṛṣṇa conscious government...

Prabhupāda: No, no. You can have government when you are in even minority. But the mass of people, on account of this quality, will have to see.

Hari-śauri: The idea is to convince them that what they need is good quality leaders, that not necessarily that they already have to become to that stage themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: But you said that there is unemployment also.

Rāmeśvara: To a certain extent. But there are still 250,000,000 people. So most of them...

Prabhupāda: So those who are unemployed, let them come to us. We shall give them employment.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. But for the mass population...

Prabhupāda: Well, gradually you will increase and...

Rāmeśvara: We have to give them something that they can do in their home.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: Because it is impractical to think that they will give up everything and move into the temple.

Prabhupāda: No, those who are unemployed, let them come. We shall give them employment.

Jagadīśa: On the farm.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). So on the whole, people are in darkness. And that is going on as advancement. This is the only institution to give them some light. There is no doubt about it. All in the darkness. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are in darkness, and some leader comes, he is also in the darkness, and both of them fall into the ditch. This is going on. Do you agree to this point? Otherwise you cannot become good preacher. You must yourself, must be convinced that actually this is the position. All these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians—they're all in darkness, and they're misguiding people. That's all. One of the first-class rascal in darkness is your Darwin. He's in favor of Darwin's theory. Another first-class demon is that Freud. (laughter) These are the guides of the modern civilization. Anthropomorphism. No? What is called?

Gargamuni: Anthropology?

Prabhupāda: Anthropology.

Jayapatākā: Now the latest demon is the one who says the population theory, overpopulation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: He is causing the trouble now.

Prabhupāda: Because everyone is ghostly-haunted and speaking all nonsense. Piśācī pāile yena mati-cchana haya, māyār grasta jīvera sei dāsa upajaya. One who is under the control of māyā, he speaks like ghostly-haunted man—all nonsense.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Not even letters.

Gargamuni: No. They never even wrote him. They didn't care. And there's still a foundation. From 1948 there is a foundation there of a building which was started in 1947 or '48, and I was very surprised because the building has a frame of steel girders, not cement but steel, big steel girder. It has a frame. I think it's about a two-story building, say half the size of Māyāpur building, half the size. And the frame is still there. I asked Pañcaratna who went there if it was still there or whether it was blown away by the war. He said, "No, it is still there." So there's already a building. There's a stone wall around the property. I think it's around, maybe, about three-quarters to an acre. But it's in the heart of the city. It's in a good area, a very populated area but very nice area also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: So I thought I would go there and see and then come back, get a new visa and then return and give a report.

Prabhupāda: So it will be nice. That was started by my Guru Mahārāja. We have to take.

Gargamuni: Yes. Because after he goes there's nothing.

Prabhupāda: Tīrtha Mahārāja was planning to exchange that property with a Calcutta Muhammadan, that he would give him that property, and this Muhammadan would give him this property, his property. I checked it. I approached the donor, the Bali-hatti(?) zamindar, that "You donated this temple and it is going to be in the hands of Muhammadan. Do you like it?" So he said, "No, I don't like it." I said, "Make it inquiry." He inquired, and he immediately wrote Tīrtha Mahārāja that "You are contemplating. This we do not approve. We are the donor." So Tīrtha Mahārāja replied him that "It is no more in the hands of the donor. I am the trustee. Whatever I like, I can do."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: With a covering letter: "Sir, there is much agitation about Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. You'll kindly read this following pamphlet, and you'll understand the value of the movement." And it is good that you have given the heading, "The Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement."

Rāmeśvara: So this is a study published in Los Angeles Times on January 2nd. It says, "The year 1976 could mark the beginning of a new religious revival in America, judging from recent Gallop surveys of public opinion. The surveys found: 1) For the first time in nearly twenty years there was an increase in church attendance"—first time in twenty years—"with 42% of all adults in America attending church or synogogue in any typical week." Once a week 42% of the adult population, almost half. "2) The proportion of Americans who believe that religion is increasing its influence on American life has tripled since 1970." In other words the public thinks that religion is now influencing American life. The number of people who think like that has gone up.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is due to this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Rāmeśvara: I think so.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: "To estimate the average church attendance in 1976, surveys..." Oh, this just tells you how they took the survey. "So analysis of these figures shows that church attendance is up among all major population groups. The Catholics are better attendees than the Protestants. Women go more often than men." Women go more often than men in America. "Southerners and the Mid-Western"—from the South and the Mid-West—"they attend more frequently than they do in the East, and far more than those living in the West." So this says that people in the West, like California, they're the least religious. People in the East, like New York and Pennsylvania, they're a little more religious, and people in the Mid-West and the South, they're the most religious according to this survey. "Those who are under thirty years of age are less likely to go to church than those who are thirty and over." Younger people... Same trend, giving up...

Prabhupāda: They come to us.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They come to us. "Whites and nonwhites attend with equal frequency." Not that the white people are more religious; black people are less. "People with a college background are more likely to go to church regularly than those who never went to college, but people who never went..." In other words, they're saying if you went to high school but you did not go to college, the chances are you will not go to church as much as if you went to college. But if people went to grade school and then they left without going to high school or without going to college... That means they left at, say, fifteen years old. Then they have the best chance for going to church. That means the less education you are given in America, the more religious.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: You can't have more than three...

Prabhupāda: No, why don't you stop? In spite of so many measures for checking population, the population is increasing. How it is? Some years ago I read in a paper that three men are increasing every second or every minute.

Rāmeśvara: They cannot control their sex desire. And some of these methods are imperfect.

Prabhupāda: No. Sex desire cannot be controlled by ordinary man. That's a fact. But they have invented so many things to stop increase of population. Why population is increasing? That is the point. They are killing and more... They're taking contraceptive tablets and so on, so on, a vigorous arrangement for stopping birth or checking increase of population. Why every second or every minute throughout the whole world three men are increasing? That they cannot stop. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). It is indeed troublesome, but you cannot stop it. Either birth or death or disease or old age, you cannot stop. You want it. Everyone wants. Who wants to become old man like me to run on with a stick and with so many inconveniences? But I have to become old man. Who can stop it? Similarly, birth, death also, or disease... You may be proud that "We have invented medicine for cancer and...," but you cannot stop disease. That is not possible. What is their answer?

Gargamuni: "We are trying."

Prabhupāda: That every rascal will say, "I am trying." So that is not science.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That every rascal will say, "I am trying." So that is not science.

Hari-śauri: Well, in India they say that before, it was not compulsory, but now it's compulsory in India that you can't have more than two children, and then, after two children, you must have this sterilization.

Prabhupāda: Why India? The other countries, they are also trying to stop.

Hari-śauri: Well, in other countries they say there's no need for such population control.

Gargamuni: Yes. In one... I think is was in Germany they had something only one percent increase of population.

Hari-śauri: Some places they're actually trying to increase, in some places.

Gargamuni: Yes. In Australia.

Hari-śauri: In Australia they've only got thirteen million people in the whole country, and it's bigger than America. And in Canada also, they only have a few million. And in Russia they don't have such a big population for the size of the land. But because they've set up these national divisions, then in one place they're killing the population...

Prabhupāda: No... Vedic process is that unless you create nice children or you can give them protection from death, don't create children. Brahmacārī. Remain brahmacārī. That is sensible, that "Why shall I beget children like cats and dogs if I cannot take care of them properly?" That is very gentlemanly. What is this? I create and kill? Most uncivilized. Don't create. That is civilized man. "If I cannot take care of them properly, I'll not create children."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: They're not educating the population in brahmācārya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: Therefore these beggars are there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is gentlemanly, that "Why shall I take responsibility of family if I cannot maintain them properly?" That is very gentlemanly. That is civilization. "And I accept so-called family for sense gratification; I cannot maintain them and kill them"—what is this? Is that civilization? They should be ashamed to be called civilized men. Here is civilized way. Preach this because the Vedic civilization is real civilization. "You are not civilized. You have killed Jesus Christ who instructed, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should be ashamed of your present civilization. It is... Brainwash is required."

Gargamuni: (laughs) Say that, yes. We're brainwashing, washing their brain.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And all these rubbish things we are finishing. "Yes, it is brainwashing, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the core of the heart, all mistaken ideas." Speak in the court like that. "And see how we are being appreciated by scholarly section. Here is our book. Read if you have got time and see the opinion. It is really brainwashing, but for the good. Everything requires cleansing—for good. If bad impression, bad ideas, are washed, why do you protest? Let it be done. Give us freedom. It is brainwashing, but for the good, washing for good. Just like you wash your cloth. Do you think it is bad? Dirty cloth, if it is washed nicely with soap and water, who will protest against that? 'Oh, why you are cleansing your dirty clothes?' That is another foolishness. Everyone, every gentleman, every civilized man, washes his clothes with soap and water to become more refreshed. So we are giving this civilization... Actually it is brainwashing, but for the good. And see our example. The boys and girls whom you are charging, 'Brainwash,' just see after brainwashing, how gentleman they have become. They have become moralist. They have become God conscious. They are clean outwardly. Their fooding is so innocent and so nutritious. So why do you check it? Bring your plate and our plate. Now judge. Which is better? You taste. Halavā, puri, samosa, kachori, vegetable—one plate; and boiled meat with salt and black pepper... So taste now which is better."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: I think you even said that "This unemployment will destroy your country." You once said that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At least, the black men will spoil everything if they are unemployed.

Rāmeśvara: He'll simply become a thief.

Prabhupāda: Thieves, rogues and plunderers. That's all.

Hari-śauri: Detroit has the highest murder rate in the world, 'cause all the city population is black.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we could purchase that palace which costs six million dollars fifty years ago. And we have got for three hundred thousand. Why? Nobody was purchasing. Who will go to purchase there? I took it. "Yes it is..." I offered him... He was asking 350,000. So I told him, "I'll pay you cash, all three hundred." He immediately agreed. (laughs) I should have offered him less. He would have agreed. Nobody was purchasing.

Hari-śauri: Yes, we could have got it for half...

Prabhupāda: So he immediately agreed. Anyway, that's a very nice place. You have seen?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Very nice place, unique palace.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Oh. He's intelligent. Doing nice?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Brahmānanda: So the only difficulty there is that we cannot make devotees from the local population.

Prabhupāda: Either Indian or African.

Brahmānanda: Yes, either one. So unless we get men from overseas, then for us to expand is very difficult. Just like for this Mombassa. We get this big house. Unless we have men to maintain it, then why should we take it?

Prabhupāda: But overseas, we have got enough men.

Brahmānanda: We only have twelve devotees there and two temples. It's very less.

Prabhupāda: You cannot export from America?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, we have to. We have to.

Prabhupāda: It is your missionary activities, American.

Brahmānanda: So far for the Africans, we're giving them prasādam and kīrtana. But anything more than that, we cannot expect. If we give them that, they are satisfied.

Prabhupāda: They're hearing kīrtana?

Brahmānanda: Oh, yes.

Morning Walk -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This is also arrangement by Kṛṣṇa. Vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. "I will arrange soldiers. Russia will arrange for military power, America will arrange for military power, and they'll be engaged in fighting so that the overburdened earth will be released from these, all these demons. And it will pave the way for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." And so long they're alive, they'll protest against Kṛṣṇa consciousness: "This is brainwash." So Kṛṣṇa will arrange war between them. Then they'll be finished, and it will be easy for us to make progress. So paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8).

Satsvarūpa: Why will that be favorable for us? You said that will be...

Prabhupāda: Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām, that we are meeting so many obstacles for these rascal demons, and when they will be killed, then our path will be easier. And they will also understand that "This demonic way of life is not good. Let us take to Kṛṣṇa." (break) ...that unnecessarily they fight occasionally between themselves. There is no question of fight. There is a Malthus's theory in economics that when the population is increased, there is... (end)

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Just like India has so many villages. Because they are living simply, then there's enough for everyone.

Prabhupāda: No scarcity. Population increasing? You increase your food. So much land everywhere vacant, all over the world. But that they will not do. They will keep the cattles and eat. Cattle also, they want vegetables. Otherwise where you'll get cattle? But therefore in Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce food grains. Just like this is. How nice it is, from paddy. So you take the paddies, rice, eat, and the grass you can utilize in so many ways. Anywhere you can till the ground, you get paddy and the grass. Make your cottage. So shelter is there. And the animals also like this grass. You can make home. Where is the scarcity? Plain living, high thinking, and prepare for next life. Go back home, back to Godhead. Finish this hellish life of repeated birth and death. There is no knowledge. And when we try to give them this knowledge, they say, "You are brainwashed. You have imported some new way of life, style of life. Brainwash." So our European, American devotees, they like rice? No.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Somebody, some Arabian boy, translated?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...people do not know. So we are preaching for them, "It is fortunate that you accept God. You know God." So in this way. And actually that is the fact. Mostly, eighty percent of the population, they are atheists, all. The Muslims, they are not atheists.

Pṛthu-putra: No. They follow the Koran.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Pṛthu-putra: They follow very strictly the laws of Koran. Even their whole social structure is based on Koran.

Prabhupāda: That is here in India also.

Pṛthu-putra: But they are also killing the animals.

Prabhupāda: Their Koran, their Koran... Oh, that is... What can we do? They are habituated. In Arabia where is food?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. Very desert most of the time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore they're allowed. Question is, jīvo jīvasya jīvanam: "One living entity..."

Pṛthu-putra: "...is the food of another."

Prabhupāda: Another. So when you have got less important life, why should we kill more important? Just like Kṛṣṇa says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya, protecting the cows. That is a very important animal. He doesn't say goat-rakṣya or lamb-rakṣya. Those who want to eat meat, they can eat some unimportant animal, but don't touch cow. It is very important.

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Munsi,(?) ah, yes. (laughs)

Gurukṛpā: Everybody was, "Is it true?"

Prabhupāda: He did not believe in Kṛṣṇa. And from his character he's a rascal. I know that.

Hari-śauri: The one thing that shocks the Indians the most is Vivekananda.

Prabhupāda: Because they're rascals. Modern people in India, they are all rascals. Whole population is bokā.

Gargamuni: No. The Marwaris don't like him because he was a chicken-eater.

Prabhupāda: Marwaris are little religious. They...

Gargamuni: They never talk about Vivekananda. They don't like him.

Prabhupāda: He was rascal number one. He brought three women with whom he had intimate connection. That is very easy to make intimate connection with woman in America. With money also. He brought. And with their money. Aurobindo also, the same thing. With woman's money they became rich, not like me, with hard labor of writing books and selling. I could also do. There was chance. But this is not my business to make intimate relation with woman and get money. I could do. There was chance. When attempt was failed, the man who introduced that woman to me, he one day said, "I have seen many swamis, but none like you." (laughter)

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're obstinate.

Prabhupāda: Obstinate. That scissors philosophy. There is no other way to understand it, but he'll not accept. That is his misfortune. Mūḍha. Bokā. And our problem is that these bokās, rascals, they are leading the society. And they are suffering. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). He's blind. We are also blind. And they're leading us. What will be our consequence? And we are losing the chance of human body to understand what is spirit, what is matter, what is God. We're losing everything. Very precarious condition. These rascals will not allow to understand real thing. That is the position. Otherwise what we have got to do with these rascals? But because they are taking some position, the whole populace is misguided. Means they are losing the chance of this human body. Suicided. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Amongst the scientists, there are many who are actually against this concept that life is something chemical or physical. But they are somehow afraid of speaking outside...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 4, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Therefore there are hippies. This is your culture hippies and murderer in the name of religion. This is their culture. And abortion. Because there is no such culture, therefore the result is the abortion and killing and bombing, making the whole atmosphere abominable. This is your culture. Fighting between Protestant and Catholics, and bombing... People are terrified. They cannot go out in the street. This is your culture. And begging is bad. To keep the people, whole population, in terrified condition, that is very good, and if anyone in a humble way begs, that is bad. This is your culture. Vedic way allows the brahmacārī to beg just to learn humbleness, not beggar. Coming from very big, big family all family, they practice it. This is not begging. This is to learn how to become humble and meek. And Christ said, "To the humble and meek, God is available." It is not begging. You do not know what is this culture. You have your own culture, devil's culture, to kill even one's own child. How you'll understand what is this culture? Am I right or wrong?

Satsvarūpa: You're right.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Means no payment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I'll go to a man who has got already. Why shall I wait for you? Even if you are so sure that in future you'll be able to manufacture a machine, a human body, so already you are trying to check the population. It is being produced so profusely that what will be credit for you even if you manufacture, (laughter) rascals? Even if you manufacture in future, then what is the credit for you? Here millions of machines coming automatically. You are trying to check it. What is the credit? Bhavānanda, you...?

Satsvarūpa: They say they're trying to do a better one than this.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you cannot do. (Bengali)

Bhavānanda: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: You know hele (Bengali). There is a snake in the water.

Jayapatākā: The hele snake.

Prabhupāda: Hellish? Hele, hele, hele (Bengali), hele snake.

Jayapatākā: Hele snake. It doesn't have any poison.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So one snake charmer, he cannot capture that hele snake, and he is expecting to capture cobra. (Bengali) I challenge them that "First of all make one egg, a small egg. (laughter) Make some chemicals and give it to the incubator and let the chicken come." The rascals, they cannot do that.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Indians not there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they're starting, because the building that we're putting up is a guesthouse. It is very nice facility for Indians to stay there. And during the summer, especially, what they're thinking to do is for two weeks they'll have a program for the Indians to send their children there for school and activities. And the two weeks will end on Janmāṣṭamī. So all the parents of the Indian children can come and spend the weekend at the farm at this guesthouse. Gradually it can develop. Very big population of Indians in New Jersey and Pennsylvania and New York, and they're all within easy reach of this farm, three hours, two hours by car.

Prabhupāda: They have no temple, the Indians?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually they are looking to our society to provide them some spiritual place of worship. They're actually looking to us as priests.

Prabhupāda: American brāhmaṇas. Go-brāhmaṇa. American milk, American brāhmaṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja has organized the life membership program to send the Indian members milk sweets in the mail every week from the farm. Burfi, sandeśa.

Prabhupāda: They also like. And in America, the Indians are there, they are all educated. They're not low-class men.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You called Vāsudeva? He has already ordered two thousand each.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Immediately.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So it means we shall sell outside India at least fifty thousand every month.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about London and England? Huge Indian population.

Prabhupāda: Huge Indian, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: America also has big Indian population.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tripurāri should take standing orders for the Indians because he has many centers under his charge.

Prabhupāda: In Africa? Huge Indian, whole Africa-east, west, north, south.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And also in Trinidad.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Everything is complete by the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa. Simply we mismanage. That's all. I do not know why people are engaged with politics, fighting, and so on, so on. By Kṛṣṇa's grace everything is complete. You eat sufficiently, you be strong and keep your health good and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the arrangement. These rascals, they have created civilization, simply animosity-fighting, politics. This is Kali-yuga. Kali means simply unnecessarily fights. There is no need of fighting, but they'll create a situation, fighting. That's all. This is Kali-yuga, unnecessarily. Why politics? Why so much discussion, barking in the United Nations? Kṛṣṇa has given the formula. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). In America, Australia, Africa, they can produce so much grain that ten times of the population as it is now can be maintained. Similarly, Australia can produce ghee. So by Kṛṣṇa's arrangement everything is all right, the economic problem. Why they create this situation and occasionally fight and finish the whole...? Such a rubbish civilization, rākṣasa, unnecessarily increasing military power and spending all the revenues. Russia spends sixty-five percent-unnecessarily. And still starving. So this is mūḍha, duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina, only engaged in sinful activities, duṣkṛtina, and rascals, mūḍha, narādhama. He got the opportunity of this human life, and it misusing unnecessarily-narādhama. And their university education-māyayāpahṛta, useless knowledge, useless. Apahṛta-jñāna. Actually they have no knowledge. Why? The only fault is there is no God. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15). So one... That is the basic fault. Everyone is trying: "There is no God. Science." This is the basic principle. So the whole human society is suffering on account of these fools and rascals. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is para-upakāra, how to bring them in peaceful condition, in normal mental condition, and make this life successful by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we have to do it very carefully. It is para-upakāra. So always remember this fact, that they are..., the whole world is being controlled by āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, atheist class of men, and people are suffering everywhere. But Kṛṣṇa also descends when such condition prevailing. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). So now Kṛṣṇa has descended in His name. Nāma-rūpe kṛṣṇa-avatāra. So try to do some good to the society. You have got a great mission and don't deviate. Try to... And Kṛṣṇa will give you all help. So, but always keep in mind that this civilization is a wrong civilization. Wrong civilization. It is not quite civil. What do you think? In Hong Kong I have seen. People are living so wretchedly.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Abnormal. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Upset in Fiji. The Fijian government formed by the National Federation Party, which draws its support mainly from the people of Indian origin, will have to tread warily if it is to avert racial tension in the islands. It was by no means easy, even for the multiracial alliance party which hitherto ruled the South Pacific republic, to maintain harmony between the people of Indian origin who form fifty-one percent of the population, and the indigenous Melanesians. Its leader and the former Prime Minister Ratu Sir Pamish Nara had to strain every nerve to keep the extremist Melanesians in check."

Prabhupāda: The Prime Minister is lightie?

Upendra: Yes. He is very educated. He is half. All the ministers are, those natives are light-skinned. They are from a particular island group, mixed. They are very intelligent and polite. The other natives are darker and more extremists. But this extremist agitation is, they say, is instigated by the Europeans, who keep the Indians and natives apart, because the natives have all the land, and this is what the Europeans are interested in. So they instigate it.

Prabhupāda: These rascals, wherever they go, they create trouble.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): So the books which you have written for other people.

Prabhupāda: No. You don't require to read book. We simply say that "You come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." This is treatment. These boys, foreigners, they have come to me not by reading my book. First of all I invited him, "Sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." And then gradually. This is the general treatment.

Dr. Sharma: The Communism, doesn't believe in God, etcetera, etcetera. It is simply fabricated things of the populace. Even Karl Marx when he wrote, he didn't talk anything about God. It was Engels, who was a contemporary, a great philosopher, materialistic philosopher, he started infusing certain things about this. And later on, because of being dogmatic, being wrapped up in this scientific discovery, we're being misled, and they would take many things for granted.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: For example, my due respect for the medical profession, into which fortunately and unfortunately (indistinct) I have to tell this. Throughout the world not the best genetician doctor can prove to the soul of soul is the child of man. Nobody can tell who is the father. Medical profession. The real existence of his being is taken as sure faith. If the mother says, (indistinct). He takes it for granted, faith, (indistinct) praise the mother and calls so and so his father. Because he trusts.

Prabhupāda: Mother is called father?

Guest: No. Mother is trusted to take the father. Identity of father is known through the mother, not through any other method.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that even the best genecists in the world who are teaching genetics, they cannot actually determine who is the father based on genetics. The only actual thing is the mother's saying.

Dr. Sharma: Faith.

Prabhupāda: That, we give the example.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): No, my point is everyone has some special strategy if we don't want the total population the world is Communist. Should not there be a special strategy to enter in their own hearts?

Prabhupāda: This is special strategy, that as far as possible, give them those who are educated, read then, give them chance to read. And those who are not, let them come, and music and dance. Everyone likes to do this. And take prasādam, feast, lecture. Common sense.

Guest (2): Politic of other.

Prabhupāda: Apart from, we are not concerned with politics. We are concerned with the madman. So what is this nonsense politics conducted by some big...? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). What is this politics, the democracy? Some animals voting another big animal, that's all. The leader is an animal, and the voters, they are animals. So what is the use of such politics? They remain animals. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. That is going on. You have got it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. I don't know if this is the right volume. It's the only one that resembles. I can't read Russian, so I don't know if that's...

Prabhupāda: Is that Russian?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have one book in Russian.

Prabhupāda: So in this way smaller books we can publish. (break) ...to Other Planets, similarly.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "It was started nine years ago near Pondicherry with the same target of fifty thousand but has still a population of only four hundred, mostly foreigners." In other words, this is... The idea is that just as Auroville is a farce, any one of us, we're also farcical.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... It is very good farce. That is the... Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's the implication.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a farce. There's no... From what I can see here, there's no mention in the whole thing... It never mentions "International Society for Krishna Consciousness." It never mentions "Founder-Ācārya His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami." It doesn't even mention...

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...Hare Krishna Movement." In one place it says, "Hare Krishna followers," but it never says, "the Hare Krishna movement." No one knows what ISKCON is. In India they don't know.

Prabhupāda: And your name is mentioned in every line, your photograph, as if you are doing everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's another article in here about the Bhaktivedanta Institute. Have you seen it?

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Bhakti-caru: "Earnest Plea to Nine Congress Chief Ministers. Charan calls for all the assembly elections. New Delhi, April 18th. The Union Home Minister, Mr. Charan Singh..."

Prabhupāda: Again election, as if election will change their quality. They remain... Let them remain as rascal, and simply by election, in place of one rascal, another rascal will improve it. This is the... Let them remain rascal, but get vote. So that is... That is described in Bhāgavatam, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The population is śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra, and they are giving vote—another big paśu. That's all. This is going on. This is democracy. The voters are paśu, and he is selecting another big paśu. This is going on. The rascals, they do not know, "If instead of a tiger, we select one lion, then what is the difference? Simply name. The tiger was president. Now the lion is the president." And both of them—animals. Where is the man, human being? This is going on. And because they are paśu, śva-viḍ-varāha, they are happy: "Now there is lion. Now the tiger is driven away. Now there is lion." This is going on. Hm? Am I right?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That they cannot. As soon as they will find opportunity, they will become vyabhicāriṇī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll become what?

Prabhupāda: Vyabhicāriṇī. For woman, protection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you don't advocate this remaining sing..., these women remaining brahmacāriṇīs.

Prabhupāda: Therefore polygamy was allowed. Let them be taken care of, one husband, three wives. Therefore the kṣatriyas were taking hundreds of women. They had money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriyas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṣatriyas, yes.

Prabhupāda: Just like we see, when Devakī was married, so many Devakī's young friends also went. They were taken shelter. The woman population is always bigger. (end)

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means ignorance, rascals. They are busy with something which is not his business. Then next question will be: then what is his business? If they actually read Bhagavad-gītā, his business is that to find out: "If I am going to change my body, what I am going to be?" Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body, after being finished, this body, I am not dead. I am going to change another body. So is it not my duty? Just like if I go somewhere, you see how that place, how it will be suitable for me, how I shall live there. Is it not duty? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I am not going to die. That, if I leave this compartment, I'm not going to die. I'll accept another compartment. But shall I not see what kind of compartment will be, whether it is better than this or inferior than this? Is it not my duty? That is my real problem. Or the actual problem is that if I am eternal, why I shall change body now and then? This is my problem. And Kṛṣṇa says that "If anyone does not take up My instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, then he does not get Me, and the result is that he'll again turn to this change of body, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartma..." So they are not careful about these things, so what do they understand about Bhagavad-gītā? The real problem they do not touch. And the body will change, and he'll live in India or in America, say, for fifty years. He's busy. That is cats, just like these cats and dogs at night. Nobody has given him charge, but he is thinking "I am in charge of the road. Why this put-put motorcar, you have come here? Go on. Go on. Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" But who has given him charge? But he's starving, and people are throwing stone upon him, but he's thinking "I am in charge of this business. Why at night this car has come?" Dog mentality. Is it not exactly like the dog? He's disturbing all others—"Gow, gow! Gow, gow, gow!"—but he's thinking that "I am in charge." Is it not dog dancing, these politicians, politics? Who cares for you? Gandhi or there, he has gone. Does it mean the world activities stop? Churchill was there. He has gone. Hitler was there. They are coming and going like so many insects. Napoleon was there. Who cares for them? We are licking up their so-called activities: "Oh, Napoleon was so great. Gandhi was so great." And what he has done? The dog dancing. Who can understand that unless one is Kṛṣṇa conscious? What he has done actually? Has he stopped death? No. Population, birth, sterilization... Will they be able to stop it? Simply manufacturing concoction and jumping like a... That's all. And if you say the real thing, upadeṣo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye, they'll become angry.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You cannot count how many there are. Now these, some of the jīvas, not all of them... Majority of them, they live in the spiritual world, just like majority of the population of the state, they live outside the prison house. Prison house means some of the citizens who are criminals, they are put into the jail. Similarly, these living entities who are criminals, means who have rebelled against the order of God, they are sent here, in this material world. So they are suffering one term after another. Therefore here is the chance, ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. In the form of human body you can get out of it. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). This is chance. And therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "My dear boys, you don't spoil your life." "I am working and enjoying. I am not spoiling." "No, this kind of working is done by the cats and hogs." Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: (SB 5.5.1) "For sense gratification the hogs and dogs, they also work very hard and then enjoy senses. So this body is not meant for that purpose." You are thinking that you are working so hard, karmī, and big, big skyscraper building and nice motorcar, nice roads. Electricity you have discovered. You are very advanced. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This kind of advancement..." (break)...motorcar. "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" Therefore He warns, "No, no, no, no. This is not civilization." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). "So much hard labor for sense gratification? This is not good." Then? What it is meant for? Tapo divyam. So human life is meant for tapasya, self-realization, ātma-śuddhi. Ātmā can be purified from the contamination of the material modes of nature by tapasya. That is real civilization. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam. Your existence will be purified. Now your existence is not purified. Therefore you have to accept birth and death, old age and disease. It is not purified. So here is the chance to purify your existence. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam. Brahman means the greatest, unlimited. You are hankering after happiness, but if you purify your existence, then you get unlimited happiness of Brahman. Anantam: "There is no end." Here, whatever happiness you are getting, that is not unlimited. Limited. That limited happiness is available in the life of cats and dogs also. So the human life is meant for tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam (SB 5.5.1). So this tapasya can be practiced... Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ (SB 5.5.2). You have to render your service to mahat, mahat, mahātmā. And who is mahātmā? Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ (BG 9.13). This is mahātmā. Kṛṣṇa says. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Actually even in Los Angeles, where there is a small settlement, the entire Indian population is supporting us. They have their own societies, Gujarat, Maharastran, but all of them have voted to endorse our Ratha-yātrā and to support it with all their facilities.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they'll do. Indians and Americans, they are well-to-do. In foreign countries, everywhere, I see, Indians, their position is better than in India. In your country also. Indians in foreign countries, they get more facilities. Personally also, I could not do here in India in spite of twenty-three years. And as soon as I went to America, all facilities came to me. Of course, it took some time. That takes some... Indian, the worst government and everything is crippled, crippled. People are hampered. And the government servant, they're simply wasting time and drawing big, big salary. This is India. Very precarious condition. Fighting, party, that party, that party. Because India's original culture is very, very strong, despite all these disadvantages, they are still standing, mass of people. Otherwise India's government is worthless. Hm? What do you think?

Rāmeśvara: It's obvious.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rāmeśvara: It is obvious, what you are saying.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And everyone is what?

Prabhupāda: Hippie. The result is hippie. In Western countries I see and lament. So many percent of their population are hippies. What is the benefit? They cannot do anything, useless population. They cannot utilize. And in America the Vietnam was selected—"Let them die," in disappointment. Useless waste of... They require... Could not manage. "Let them die." Marawara gar leka.(?) When we have finished all sorts of condemnation, we say, "You die." That's all. Tell them. They have no idea how to reform this degraded population. This is the only way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In New York I have seen in ordinary places how niggardly they live. No human being can live like that. In good places, nicely dressed, nicely... But in East... East Village or something?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the East Village.

Prabhupāda: No gentleman can live. So niggardly. The shops, the neighborhood, the area, all...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's where you went to begin the movement.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I did not select that. Unknowingly I was thrown. I did not know which quarter is good way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who showed you that area?

Prabhupāda: Mukunda. I asked him that "Find out some upper class...." He found out that 26 Second Avenue. (laughs) I did not know. That's all. Anyone...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Humble beginning.

Prabhupāda: The landlord took advantage. He was receiving rent, eighty-nine rupees or eighty rupees. He charge me 125. And another room, he was getting fifty. So he charged me seventy-five. Little room.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dollars.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now you are introducing again to the world. There is good hope. Young girls in our society, they should be promised to some boy just in the same way, by their parents.

Prabhupāda: And if required, one man can take care of more than one wife because woman population is greater.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. And some boys want to remain brahmacārī. So naturally there's fewer men for women.

Prabhupāda: And those who are able, you can keep more than one wife. Just see Kṛṣṇa-sixteen thousand wives. God. That is God. Come on, if there is anyone to compete. Sixteen thousand palaces, sixteen thousands wives, each wife, ten sons. That is God.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one is equal to or greater than Him.

Prabhupāda: All queens are happy. Whatever she desires from husband... Satyabhāmā... And Kṛṣṇa went to the heaven and brought the pārijāta flower to satisfy. This is husband. Wife has asked for something: "All right."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He even had to fight.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is husband's duty. She has dedicated her everything to the husband, and husband must see that she is comfortable. This is husband. She must have children, she must have good house, good eating, good clothing, good ornament. Then she is satisfied. They want these things. A woman does not mind very much, "My husband has got more than one wife." If she gets all the comforts of her wishes, some children and some comforts, then she is... She does not grudge because woman knows man's psychology. A man is not satisfied with one woman. So he must be given that. But she must be chaste. She cannot have more than... Then their relation is all right. If the woman allows husband—"He likes. Let him have more than one woman, but I must be chaste"—this... Our civilization is nowhere, Vedic culture.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (tape very faint throughout) ...divorce, child-killing or making the children hippies, that all. Or find out some war to destroy them. When it is unmanageable, they declare war: "Engage these rascals." The politicians do that. When they cannot manage, they declare war, because they are not human beings; they are animals, Churchill and Hitler and this... "Start some war and finish this population." Or it may be nature's law. "When there is unnecessary population let there be war, famine, pestilence." That is one theory, Malthus' theory.

Śatadhanya: Whose?

Prabhupāda: Malthus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Malthus.

Prabhupāda: So I don't speak I am authorized. I have studied both ways.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what makes your books so unique, that others might have had some scholarly knowledge, but you have to so much experience and realization packed into those books that it's so appealing, the scholars delight in reading the purports.

Prabhupāda: Scholars, they theorize. I say practical. Scholars want to say, want to show how much their imaginative power is strong. That's all. And they all speak nonsense-Ramakrishna. And my point of view is how to give people practical hints so that they may be raised from this rotten condition.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Sinking.

Bhakti-prema: Crushed by (indistinct). (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the Rand McNally's Illustrated World Atlas, its special feature is that it gives maps describing all different subjects like language. What language is spoken throughout different places is the world is shown by map and the national areas, according to size, population, and cities, major populations, densities of population. Like China is supposed to be... China. This shows proportionately in population according to this and India, it says that it is... Everything else is very small compared to these two, India and China. Agriculture, what kind of agriculture, natural vegetation, climate... (break)

Bhakti-prema: But there was no Atlantic Ocean, Indian Oceans, no. But after that, there were sixteen thousand sons of Sagara Mahārāja. Then their sacrificial hearth was stolen by Indra. So it was put somewhere in the earth folds. They began to dig the earth to find out that hearth. So they dug other oceans, (indistinct) Kapila Muni (indistinct), and it explains the curse(?) that he is the chief. And then there's...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here that "Only our knowledge of the crust of the earth is based on direct observation, but studies of paths of earthquake waves..." Then it goes... The only way they can understand is by direct observation. And that's very limited. Says, "All the planets were probably formed at much the same time." It doesn't sound like they have very much knowledge, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Everything is "probably," "maybe." Says that "Probably all the planets were formed at much the same time from the same great dust cloud." After you create this planetarium, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they'll have to rewrite all of these books. These businesses...

Bhakti-prema: Another book has to be written. Its name should be Easy-to-Read Geography or Advanced Geography. And also about history we have to write. Your Divine Grace will write Advanced History, and there the complete lifetime of Manus and Indras should be given.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: According to the modern thinkers, any further back than about three or four thousand years ago, everyone was living in the caves. So they think that all of our books are mythology, some dreamt-up stories by some people...

Prabhupāda: So how they are writing of millions of years ago?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is all according to their mythology.

Prabhupāda: No, they are suggesting.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is the logic?

Yaśodā-nandana: I don't want any logic. The scientists will come to the planetarium and ask...

Prabhupāda: How they can? Scientist is rascal. That is proved. They are insisting that chemical can produce life. He's a rascal. They have gone to moon planet. That's a rascal. So what is the value of so-called scientist. Why should we give any importance? I'm not giving any importance. If you become scientist, that so much ghee and so much āṭā makes puri, and we can eat very nicely, all right, you are a scientist. But so much chemicals, make it life—prove that. The confectioner is also scientist. He knows very well how to do his business. A carpenter is also scientist. Here is some work nice done by the carpenter. I cannot do it. You may be a great scientist, but me? It is not possible for me to do a carpentry work. In this way it is going on. (Bengali) You have learned something, you can do it very nicely. But I cannot do it. For me it will be beating by the rod if I am given this work. I can translate, my work. So everyone is scientist, his own field of activities, to some extent. You cannot make everyone agree. That is not... Vox populi you cannot. That is not possible. What is that vox populi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: General population.

Prabhupāda: Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam (BG 7.13). So what is the value of vox populi? I concluded. Munayāḥ sādhu te 'ham. Huh? What is that? Munayāḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'ham (SB 1.2.5). Loka-maṅgalam. Yenātmā suprasīdati. So Kṛṣṇa's childhood pastime, enjoyed by Mother Yaśodā, others will think, "What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa is breaking the butterpot and it is taken as sublime?" They'll think like that.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is dakṣiṇāyana-mārga, dakṣiṇāyanam, uttarāyaṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very much moving and at very high speed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I calculated sixteen thousand miles per second, so far I remember.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think that's right.

Prabhupāda: And it is Sūryaloka. It has population.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All of the personalities there have very dazzling bodies.

Prabhupāda: Fiery body.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: With the help of this planetarium, people will actually be able to go to the moon for the first time, at least by their minds. There was such a hoax that I heard they were even selling tickets to go to the moon.

Prabhupāda: Hm. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you're feeling tired, maybe you'd like to take a little rest, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's still early now.

Prabhupāda: Hm. I have been taking rest in... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are all rascals and they're all crazy.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: ...self-independence. But we can see as you explain to us, when they get this education they become just like a dog going from door to door looking for a morsel of food. The island of Shree Lanka is very, very green, because they have a lot of rainfall. Right now it's rainy season and very lush. All fruits, vegetables grow there. But the government has a foolish policy. They produce tea and tobacco and rubber and all useless rubbish things. They could produce food ten times for the population, but they don't...

Prabhupāda: Anywhere, not only Ceylon.

Haṁsadūta: They still have wild elephants in the jungles. Here is Bhagatji, Prabhupāda. Bhagatji has come.

Prabhupāda: In which paper the arrest of Indira Gandhi?

Bhagatji: Indira Gandhi was arrested last night at eight o'clock.

Haṁsadūta: Which paper reported?

Bhagatji: In the radio it came at once, throughout whole India. And she was released in morning on bail.

Prabhupāda: Who gave her the bail?

Haṁsadūta: Who gave the bail?

Bhagatji: So many persons.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I go on reading, Śrīla Prabhupāda? He says that book distribution is doubling there also. He says, "On the farm we are doing spring planting, and this year seven acres is being put into crops, an increase over last year, since the population has grown. The farm is now famous throughout the country as..."

Prabhupāda: If you give me some rest, I can sit down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If we give Prabhupāda some rest...

Upendra: Some pillows.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Back rest. (break) "...with your permission we would like to come and visit you sometime later this year, as it has now been so long since I have had your personal association." Do you give him permission to come visit you?

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "I am a fallen wretch, but I am hoping and praying to the best of my capacity that your health will improve." (break) Would you like Bharadvāja to sing a little?

Prabhupāda: Yes.