We are serving actually, but instead of serving God, we are serving kamādi, our lust, our greediness, our senses. In one word we are serving our senses. So the position is there, but when you turn that service spirit to God, that is your success of life. Otherwise it is simply waste of time. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās. Dictated by the lust, by kāma, by serving kāma, we sometimes do something which is very, very, abominable. Just don't you see the fight? The Pope says that "You cannot use contraceptive method. It is sinful." But actually people are doing that because dictated by kāma, lust. It is actually very sinful, it is brūṇ-hatyā, murder. So how you can be that happy by continually committing murders? It is not possible. Therefore every religion, the contraceptive method will never be supported.
Pope
Lectures
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
The present society is just like animals. They have no faith, what to speak of this faith or that faith. That is the position. They are simply after sense enjoyment. That's all. Don't you see? The Pope says that it is not good, it is not God's law, that you should use contraceptive method. But they are so mad after sense enjoyment, they say, "Oh, we don't care for your instruction." Just see how much they have lost their faith. So at the present moment it is very difficult position, no faith at all. (break) ...have no good qualification. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇa (SB 5.18.12). Oh, their education, their scientific advancement, their so-called civilization... Don't you see? The everyone is expected to have national feeling, but the postal strike, mail strike went on for twenty days. The whole nation became disturbed and harassed. Why? They wanted money. "What is this? Go to... Your national feeling go to hell! You pay us. Then we work." So nobody has any faith. Simply he has faith in sense gratification. That's all. "You satisfy my senses. Then you are very good. Otherwise, go to hell." That's all. This is the position. And therefore they are denying the topmost head of Catholic Church, "We don't care for your instruction," because they have become faithless. And that is not their fault. It is fault of the heads of the churches. They did not teach them properly. They were satisfied simply by money. That's all. They did not try to teach them. Now what is the use of teaching? They have gone out of hand. The same thing: if you want to bend bamboo, do it while it is green. And when it is dried, oh, it is not possible. So now the whole society is faithless, godless, very precarious condition. So this process, our process, we don't impose any difficult rules and regulation. Please come here and chant with us and dance with us. At least, there is no loss on your part. If you think there is no gain, but at least there is no loss. So I should request you to come and join with us in our kīrtana. Then everything gradually will be clear. Any other question?
Pradyumna: Does straightforwardness, that ārjavam quality of a brāhmaṇa, does that include making the truth palatable to someone who will not understand the truth directly?
Prabhupāda: Yes. When you speak of higher truths, you don't care whether it is palatable to others or not. In social formality you can see. That has happened actually. Because the Pope, he was not strong enough in the beginning... Because some other Pope, he thought, "It may be unpalatable," he did not speak the truth. Now the other Pope is speaking the truth. They are not accepting. But from the very beginning the priests should have preached in every church, "My dear Christian brothers, you cannot use these contraceptive methods." They were never told in the churches. They were satisfied to get fees. That's all. Everywhere, not only in the Christian world. In the Hindu, in Christian, they don't care for any rules and regulations any more. But they profess that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muhammadan." (end)
Just like in India, nonvegetarian diet, according to Vedic system it is condemned. Nobody can eat any meat. But now they have learned how to eat meat. They are doing that. So somebody is saying, "Yes, today I have cooked meat, but in the Ganges water." Ganges water is considered to be pious. So he thinks by cooking meat in the Ganges water, it has become purified. You see? This is our mentality. We are bent upon doing all nonsense, and we want to get it supported by religious cover. Just like recently, the Christian world, they wanted support from the Pope of contraceptive method. That contraceptive method is condemned, but they want to be supported by the religious head. "If you don't support, then you are not good man. And if you support my nonsense, then you are very good man." Just like that Maharishi came here, and he supported that "Whatever nonsense you like, you do. You simply pay me thirty-five dollars and I give you one mantra, and within six months you become God." Oh, he looted your country. And after looting, he said, "Oh, my mission is failure." Because he has got his money, now he'll go. This is going on because we want to be cheated. Therefore cheaters come and cheat us. And as soon as say, "No. Everything belongs to God, my dear friend. You don't claim anything as yours. Because it belongs to God or Kṛṣṇa, you employ everything for His service"—"Swamijī is very conservative." You see. So actually, it is the fact.
Philosophy Discussions
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We saw a very interesting thing yesterday, myself and Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa. We were reading in the Time magazine that there is a big fight going on in Ireland between the Protestants and Catholics. Now the Pope and, I think, the Archbishop of Canterbury...
Prabhupāda: Yes, the Archbishop of Canterbury.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The two of them have been trying to work together to come out with a statement which will satisfy both Churches according to the scriptures. So Time magazine reports that after one and a half years of laborious work, they have finally come out with a 2,500-word statement, but the Pope said that this should not be taken as the Church teachings but should only be used for consideration. That means that after spending so much time, and still (indistinct). He said it should not be taken as a teaching, as a scripture.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of giving it?
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: If people are the ultimate persons to consider, then what is the use of his giving this statement? He is not authority.
Prabhupāda: Meaning is one, but interpreter are different. Just like even in the Bible it is said, "God created the universe." So that is a fact, God created. So unless you interpret in a different way, how you can say that the universe is created by some chunk and this way and that way? So we accept scripture in that sense, without any change; therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We cannot change the words of God. That is our principle. And interpretation with motive, there are so many interpreter, and that has spoiled the God consciousness of the human society.
Hayagrīva: Well this is rather strange, because Aquinas, his writings form the doctrine of the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church has always emphasized one meaning, which is interpreted by the Pope, by the head of the Church. The meaning is given by the Pope, of scripture, because...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is...
Hayagrīva: But here he says that the scriptures may contain many meanings according to one's degree of realization.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not many meaning. Meaning is one, but if one is not realized, then he can make many meanings. Otherwise meaning is one. What can be any other meaning? Suppose God created this universe. This is stated in the Bible, or in the Bhagavad-gītā the same thing is expressed in a different way, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8): "From Me everything emanates." So that's a fact, that everything is coming out from God's energy, so why there should be second meaning and second interpretation unless one is godless? What is the possible second meaning?
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: What is your hierarchy in Kṛṣṇa conscious? That is, do you have anything comparable to bishops and the hierarchy of the Christian faith and of other major faiths? That is, you are the spiritual preceptor, and who are all those below you, between you and the congregation, the members?
Prabhupāda: It is not exactly the hierarchy, but in the Christian method, Roman Catholic method, the process of the Pope, Archbishop, and..., that is very nice. There is no objection of us. But our point is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is lacking. In spite of all arrangement, if people lost faith in God, so simply by hierarchy, what is the benefit there? There is no benefit. You see? Bambarambhe laghu-kriya, in the Sanskrit word, that you can make a very high-grade arrangement, but the result is zero. So that hierarchical arrangement is exactly not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But our method is very simple. If one is fortunate enough to meet a bona fide spiritual master and if he acts strictly under his discipline, he also becomes within a very short time another spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Now I have written one letter to Pope. You have seen that? Where is that paper?
Hayagrīva: It's in here.
Journalist: Oh, a letter to the Pope. Did he answer it?
Prabhupāda: No, I have not received any answer. Is it in this paper? No, not in this paper. Where is the latest? Who is there? Ask to bring one latest. Bring one latest, yes. So we just that letter, but unfortunately, I have received no reply. How is that?
Journalist: I guess he doesn't figure that you're of sufficient importance for him to deign a reply, I guess. That's about the way I figure it. They don't...are inclined not to give credence to too much that isn't of his own doing or making or something.
Prabhupāda: Do you think that is very nice? Just... Will you read or, read this. Read it. (pause)
Journalist: What is the "renounced order"?
Prabhupāda: This is renounced. I have no family connection.
Journalist: Oh, oh. (pause as journalist reads letter)
Prabhupāda: I used to cooperate with everyone, but they are declining. What can I do? I am prepared to talk with any God conscious man. Let us chalk out a program so that people may be benefited, but they want to go in their own stereotyped way. The Pope himself is harassed by the contraceptive proposal. People want sanction from him to use unrestricted contraceptive method.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śyāmasundara: He was speaking in reference to the Pope. The Pope didn't acknowledge your letter to him.
Dr. Singh: Did he or...
Śyāmasundara: Did not.
Dr. Singh: His loss. When we have Kṛṣṇa, who needs the Pope? (laughs)
Prabhupāda: I may not think... (indistinct) He is the head of a very great religion, so I want (indistinct) cooperation, I offered my cooperation (indistinct). So I have to struggle with so many difficulties, (indistinct) and everything, handicap. Still I am...
Dr. Singh: Are there many Indian-born disciples abroad, or are they mainly Western disciples?
Prabhupāda: No, there are many Indians.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pradyumna:
- yady apy ete na paśyanti
- lobhopahata-cetasaḥ
- kula-kṣaya-kṛtaṁ doṣaṁ
- mitra-drohe ca pātakam
- kathaṁ na jñeyam asmābhiḥ
- pāpād asmān nivartitum
- kula-kṣaya-kṛtaṁ doṣaṁ
- prapaśyadbhir janārdana
- (Bg. 1.37-38)
"O Janārdana, although these men, overtaken by greed, see no fault in killing one's family or quarreling with friends, why should we, with knowledge of the sin, engage in these acts?"
Prabhupāda: He's thoroughly understanding-before killing. Not that "We have (indistinct) reason to kill." No. So we are rather unhappy that in London I've seen thousands of churches practically closed. Nobody is going there. We are not happy to see. This is happening. But why people are abstaining from going to the church? Although there is Pope, and so many priests and other things. Why?
Acyutānanda: Yeah, they protest organized religion. Anything in the society, Catholic Church...,
Prabhupāda: So nobody's now actually... This Christian world, they do not care for any pope. Hm. What do you think? And what is this pope? He's simply a post. He has no knowledge. Otherwise how he can tolerate? People are going against Bible. But the Pope does not understand that the in the Bible clearly it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." If he does not understand the simple truth then how he can become the head of his... So what is interpretation of the pope?
Karandhara: Well, most or a greater proportion of the traditional Christians condemn homosex and abortion. A good quantity of the traditional Christians, they condemn abortion and homosex.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are good, but mostly, as you were telling me that, that Pope is disgusted... Yes. Nobody cares for the Bible or the Pope. That is everywhere, not only Christian. Actually there is no religion at the present moment. All animals. We don't blame only the Christians. The Hindus, Muslim, everyone. They have lost all religion.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pañcadraviḍa: (break) ...dressed in shiny saffron. He is dressed in black. He looked like nescience and you look like the sunshine, standing next to him. He is wearing all this black with a little bit of red trimming on it, looked like nightime. (break) ...I met a Christian, and he said "You have got your guru and you are following him. He teaches you by his example. We have got our pope. He is our example of what Christianity is. He is the head of Christian order, and he himself is eating meat. Now how you can say...?"
Prabhupāda: Then how he can be pope?
Pañcadraviḍa: "But how you can say he is not the best Christian? He is the head of all the Christians."
Prabhupāda: But that means you are foolish and pope is also foolish. If he does not follow the orders of Jesus Christ, then how he becomes a pope? Therefore you are foolish. You have elected some foolish, another foolish man as your pope. That should be the right answer, that "If he does not follow Christ, how he becomes pope?"
Pañcadraviḍa: He is not killing.
Prabhupāda: Then why he is appointed as head? He must order. Otherwise if you are not following pope, then you are not Christian. He does not kill, then you should not kill. And why does he not order?
Pañcadraviḍa: He himself is eating meat. So it must be all right.
Prabhupāda: Then how he is pope?
Pañcadraviḍa: But he is knowing what Christianity is the best. Therefore he is in charge. He says it is all right to eat meat.
Prabhupāda: No, no, how... Then first of all how you can elect him as in charge? Then you are fool.
Pañcadraviḍa: All the popes for hundreds of years have all eaten meat.
Prabhupāda: Then hundreds of years you are fool. Therefore you are intelligent? Does it mean?
Richard Webster: Yes, but the difficulty is for me, for instance, that I have the pope here who is telling me perhaps the same thing in spirit but with different rules, different laws practically. I mean the spirit seems to me to be the same, but...
Prabhupāda: Law cannot be different, but it can be modified according to the time and circumstances. But the law cannot be different.
Yogeśvara: Every time a gentleman like that comes or a man like that comes and we get too close to the point about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they seem to become afraid.
Prabhupāda: No, as soon as we raise this question, killing, he became sorry. He has no answer. Therefore he wants to be out, evade. "Why Christians are killing?" Anyone I raise this question, immediately he becomes stopped, mum, dumb. That's all. Christian community, there are so many. Practically the majority of the human society, they are Christian. They are the persons who are indulging in killing. And where is Christian? Judging from the Ten Commandments, there is not a single Christian, not a single, and still, they are going, the Pope, the cardinal, the priest, the church. All simply show-bottles, that's all. There is no life. And therefore it is dwindling. Practically... Just like our Los Angeles was Christian Church. Nobody was coming. Therefore it was sold. And now there is no place to accommodate devotees. Life is lost in Christian religion. Nobody is interested, no more. And within a few years, it will be lost. It is lost in... I have seen in England. Nobody is going to church. All churches are being closed. How long you will cheat? What is that?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Many of the young people now, they look to the Bible for instruction, but they don't like to go to church at all. They feel that the church is hypocritical.
Prabhupāda: Hypocritical, simply hypocritical. All these priests and cardinals and popes, they're all hypocritical. Getting high, highly salaried, high salaries, and drinking wine. And in America there is a hospital, five thousand drunkard priests are admitted there to cure their drinking habit. That was published in a paper. And they're sanctioning man to man marriage. That was published in that, what is that? Watch?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śrutakīrti: But I'm just a common Christian. I'm following my authority. They say it's all right. The Pope.
Paramahaṁsa: He's the supreme authority. The Pope is eating meat.
Prabhupāda: That means from the supreme down to the rascal everyone is rascal. That proves it, that all of you are a set of rascaldom.
Paramahaṁsa: But the government doesn't charge anyone with crime for killing an animal.
Prabhupāda: Government means they are full of rascals. Government by the people. So you are all rascals, the government is also rascal. Your democracy means government by the people for the people. So all the people are rascals, beginning from the Pope down to the common man. Therefore the government is rascal.
Paramahaṁsa: But not all of us are Christians. Some of us are Muslims, and in the Koran Mohammed says that eating meat is all right. In fact it is required to be a good Muslim, to eat meat.
Prabhupāda: They spoke in the desert. What will they eat? But you are not in the desert. Meat-eating is a crude form of eating when people are uncivilized. When there is no other food, you cannot produce. But when you are civilized, when you learn how to produce other foods, why would you eat meat? How are you civilized?
Amogha: There are also so many priests and rabbis, the Pope.
Prabhupāda: But what do they know about the soul, about God? First thing is that there is a supreme authority. You are not independent. So if you do not know who is that supreme authority, what is the value of your knowledge? You have to accept there is a supreme authority, because you are not independent. But you do not know. Just like a rascal, he does not know about the government. What kind of man he is? He's a rascal. A civilized man means he knows what is government, what is the history of government. That is civilized. And if he doesn't know what is government, he is simply living there, he's a third class man. So you have to accept there is a government of the whole universal affair, but you do not know it. Then you are third-class man. You are not human being; you are animal. Animal does not know. This is the proof that you are animal, you are not human being. A human being, at least a class of man there must be—brāhmaṇa. Brāhma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ, one who knows how things are going on. We know that. We Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we know. Therefore we are civilized.
Amogha: He says that in the Īśopaniṣad it says that you should learn the process of self-realization side by side with the process of nescience.
Prabhupāda: Nescience, yes. That is pravṛtti and nivṛtti. Pravṛtti means sense enjoyment. And nivṛtti means self-negation. So when we say that "You shall not have illicit sex," and their inclination is illicit sex, so therefore it is revolutionary. They are materialistic persons. They want sex enjoyment to the best capacity-homosex, this sex, that sex, naked dance, all sexually inclined, pravṛtti. And we say, "Stop this," nivṛtti. They do not like it because āsura. Pravṛtti jagat. They do not know this is essential. They do not know it. This is essential. Tapasā brahmacaryena (SB 6.1.13). Tapasya means brahmacarya. The so-called swamis, they are coming for this so-called yoga practice and..., but they are themself victim of sex. This is going on. Actually, it is a bluff—they have become swami and teaching some yoga system—because they do not know that one has to stop this first of all. Brahmacaryena. So this bluffing is going on all over the world, and we are speaking just against them. Murkhayopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. If you give instruction to the rascals, he will simply be angry. He will not take advantage of it. This is our position. All the so-called professors, philosophers, they are all in the pravṛtti-mārga. Therefore they are bringing somebody, "Our interpretation is like this." Pravṛtti-mārga. Because if they can find out some support from the śāstra, then they think, "We are secure." This is going on. Pravṛttim ca nivṛttim janā na vidur āsurāḥ. The whole world is full of asuras, descendant of Hiraṇyakaśipu, and it is very difficult. But if we give them chance to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, gradually they will understand. (pause) Our difficulty: the so-called swamis, priests, popes, they are also in the pravṛtti-mārga. All these, priests, and they have illicit sex. Pravṛtti-mārga. So they are passing, "Yes, you can have homosex with man." They are getting man-to-man marriage. You know? They are performing the marriage ceremony between man to man in the open church. What class of men they are? And they are priest. Just see. Such degraded persons, drinking... They have got hospital for curing their drinking disease. Five thousand patients in a hospital in America, all drunkards, and they are priest. Just see. Simply by dressing long, what is called, overcoat?
Devotee (4): What I meant to say is that the directors of these religions like the Pope and so many things, they themselves have committed so many abominable activities that people have said, "Well, why should we stay with religion? These religious leaders themselves are eating meat, they have prostitution, they are cheating the people, taking their money, living very nicely..."
Prabhupāda: But that is not religion. Why you accept the Pope as religious?
Devotee (4): No, we don't accept...
Prabhupāda: You reject. You reject. Come to us. Why do you accept these rascals as religious? That is your fault. Why should you stick to them? They cannot teach what is real religion, so let us give you.
Harikeśa: What is the Pope doing, then? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: He's another big bogus man. The Pope's assistant died in the prostitute's house.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Paris.
Harikeśa: The Pope comes out on his balcony, and thousands of people cheer and scream.
Prabhupāda: The same thing, that small animals praising the big animals, that's all. At least they say something about God. They are not zero, but they have no clear conception of God.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But everyone is thinking that their religion is the best. Even the Christian may be ignorant, even the Jew may be ignorant, anyone—doesn't matter—they're thinking that theirs is the best.
Prabhupāda: That is the proof that everyone is fool. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). First of all... Therefore we have to understand from Bhāgavata that what is real religion. Real religion means love of Godhead. So instead of love of Godhead, the love of doghead is increasing. So where is religion? Everybody should keep a dog and serve him, and where is God?
Dr. Patel: ...those popes. However, Christ taught bhāgavata-dharma, absolute bhāgavata-dharma. It is this creation of the church, really to my mind, that the Christ is forgotten by the Western countries.
Prabhupāda: And who is remembering your Kṛṣṇa in this country?
Dr. Patel: There are a few people. I, we are not that...
Prabhupāda: In Bombay, there are so many roads, "Vivekananda road." But there is no Kṛṣṇa Road. Hm? Who is remembering Kṛṣṇa?
Dr. Patel: There is Kṛṣṇa Art Gallery, in market. Kṛṣṇa Art Gallery. (laughing) (Hindi conversation with man about Kṛṣṇa's name) Ajāmila spoke "Nārāyaṇa." You may speak in the name of your father, that his called name. Heḥ?
Prabhupāda: That is a chance; that is not...
Man: Now the Air India's plane, they have kṛṣṇa-līlā pictures.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Man: In Air India plane.
Prabhupāda: That is sense enjoyment. Only Rādhārāṇī and Kṛṣṇa. And when Kṛṣṇa is killing Kaṁsa, that picture is.... Killing Kaṁsa, that picture you won't find. Kṛṣṇa is embracing gopīs, "Ah, that is very nice!" (laughter) Because "We are doing the same thing, we are following Kṛṣṇa." That is their purpose. They are very much fond of Kṛṣṇa's mixing with the gopīs because they get a support, that "What we are doing..."
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (3): Well, we don't believe that Christ continues to suffer.
Prabhupāda: No, but the Christians do that. They are maintaining.... Christ says, "Thou shall not kill," and they are maintaining thousands of killing house, and still they are passing on as Christian.
Guest (3): Well, they're wrong.
Prabhupāda: That is the point.
Guest (3): I agree with you.
Prabhupāda: So you should tell them.
Guest (3): Well, we are. That's what we're here for.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that "You are not Christian. Don't call yourself as Christian. You are persistently disobeying, beginning..." Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," and the Christians began killing Christ, crucifying Christ. And that is going on still, in large scale, and they are still Christian. The Pope is eating meat and.... I do not wish to say so many things. These are going on, and still, they are Christians. What can I say?
Guest (3): Do you believe that...
Prabhupāda: It is not a question of believe or not believe. We are talking of fact.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw it in New York recently, our president, (sic:) Ādikeśa, he went up against Ted Patrick on television, big television show, and he completely defeated him. So Ted Patrick was saying that, you know, these people are all fanatics. So (sic:) Ādikeśa, at the end, he said, so, if we're fanatics, then the Pope is even more fanatical, so why don't you deprogram him? And everybody laughed at that Ted Patrick. (laughter)
Rāmeśvara: He says we teach our.... I mean he has many arguments. He knows all about the incidents in Germany and Japan, and he uses this against us.
Prabhupāda: He's collected all these bad.
Rāmeśvara: "Lying and cheating," he says.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A few devotees who have joined him, who left and have joined him, they have given him this inside information, so he tries.... Actually, though, no strong devotee can be changed by him. He only gets the very new men. So now he's written a book.
Prabhupāda: About us?
Rāmeśvara: (break).... on the decline of the churches in America, and they say that the biggest reason in the last few years is that Pope, he issued one big statement against birth control and abortion. He said, "Catholics cannot practice birth control and should never have abortion." So they did not like this. So that is the biggest reason for the decrease in attending the church. They broke away from the authority.
Prabhupāda: That means if the church allows sense gratification without restriction, then they'll attend church. That is the conclusion.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're dictating.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The mass is dictating. Same thing as in...
Prabhupāda: That means, conclusion is, on account of sinful life churches being closed. Not the Pope, but the sinful. Pope said, "You cannot do this sinful," and they are sinful. Therefore they desert their church.
Rāmeśvara: Even the priests, they said that when the Pope issued that document, they lost faith in him as the representative of God.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Rascal priests also so sinful. Yes, they're supporting homosex. So when the priests are sinful, the public is sinful, how the church will go on? Churches, they are expecting church must support abortion and child killing.
Richard: Right, but those people who study say, okay, to use an example, the Pope. Now there is a man who has dedicated his whole life, publicly, personally, spiritually, however you define it, to Christianity, specifically to the Catholic Church. Now apparently, and for all intents and purposes, his life seems to work for him.
Prabhupāda: The thing is, the Catholic Church is the original Church, I think.
Richard: The original Christian Church, yes.
Prabhupāda: Then why there are so many varieties?
Richard: Well, because...
Prabhupāda: Now hundreds and thousands of churches are there.
Richard: Right. Other people find that...
Prabhupāda: That means they don't like Catholic Church. They don't like. So they are missing the point.
Mādhavānanda: Already it's failing. They are making so many cars now, and people aren't purchasing. In the newspaper, you see big pictures of huge miles of lots of unsold cars. The whole motorcar business, industry, is going down.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They have another trick. Now they make them very cheap so the cars will break down every year.
Prabhupāda: But if I don't want it, either cheap or dear, who cares for it? If I don't want that. There was a statement by some Pope that "If the crown of England is offered to me at very cheap price, so why shall I accept it? What shall I do with it?" That is the..., that if I don't want a car.... Suppose if we advance our farming program, who will want the car? Theoretically, accept it, that we shall remain in the farm. Then where is the necessity of car?
Mādhavānanda: Therefore the government will not like.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The government does not like it now because we are not going to eat meat, we are not accepting liquor, no gambling, no prostitution. So the government is already concerned. Theoretically, suppose these things are stopped, then where is the human civilization? Everything is finished. Because they have no other alternative. We have got—Kṛṣṇa consciousness—but they haven't got.
Hari-śauri: They've watered down so much, there's no value left to what they're doing. They're exactly the same as a man in the street, except he says he believes in God and the man on the street says he doesn't believe. And they have no ability to convince a man that God exists. They have no scientific knowledge or whatever.
Prabhupāda: Simply by the position: "I am Cardinal," "I am Pope," "I am priest," "I am that." How long it will go on?
Hari-śauri: It's not going on very much longer anyway, there's so many, it's falling apart. There's so many branches, just the fact that there's so many divisions now of Christianity, that this man was speaking about this charismatic movement. Now this is the young people. They're feeling a need for God, so they're trying to express it through another concocted form of Christianity. But that will also be a failure.
Prabhupāda: Let us try honestly, that's all.
Hari-śauri: Due to the Pope's taking a firm stand over the not allowing abortion and contraception, like this, they said that the number of practicing Catholics was reduced from seventy-five percent to fifty percent, just simply because of that one principle that he'd stuck to. So twenty-five percent immediately left.
Prabhupāda: Where they have gone? (laughter)
Hari-śauri: Well, they gave up going to church at least.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Hopeless life.
Prabhupāda: No, why hopeless? There is hope—Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes.
Hari-śauri: Hopeless for them.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This very much describes modern civilization also. They are such aśuci-vratāḥ, they are given much respect in modern-day society. And the devotees, sometimes we go preaching and put into jail.
Prabhupāda: It is very fortunate they are not crucifying you. Putting into jail, but they crucified Lord Jesus Christ, they were so intelligent. Because he was preaching God consciousness, he was crucified. What was his fault? He was talking of God, therefore he was crucified.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Gargamuni: I have met vegetarian Christians, and they say, "Thou shall not kill," so they don't kill anything, at least any animal.
Rāmeśvara: Very small minority.
Gargamuni: Yes. They're a very small group.
Rāmeśvara: No, they are killing their own babies in defiance of the Pope.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And eating the fetus. So civilized, advanced, scientists. (laughs) Just see. Ludicrous.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Ted Patrick says that celibacy is a sign of insanity. He kidnaps nuns, priests... Anybody who takes celibate vow, he says he is not in his right mind.
Brahmānanda: He took one of our devotees and brought him to the naked dance shows and even hired prostitutes to go with him.
Ādi-keśava: I asked him once, I said, "If you had a chance..."
Prabhupāda: You saw him?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On television. Ādi-keśava was on television with him.
Ādi-keśava: I said to him, "If you had a chance to deprogram the Pope, would you do it?" He said, "Oh, definitely. I'd love to."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If the Pope was celibate.
Prabhupāda: (looking at photo) Who is this boy?
Ādi-keśava: A karmī. He's from another group. That boy in the front, he is taking the person. They're holding some girl. He is from another group, I think, some Christian group. There was an article in the New York Times where they went and watched one whole deprogramming experiment, and at the end of the experiment they wrote this article showing pictures of them taking the person, dragging him out of the building, throwing him in cars. And then later they held one public deprogramming in Detroit. But our devotees went to that public deprogramming and began to ask them all kinds of questions, and they had to abandon the program because we caused so much trouble for them. All the... A lot of the Indian community went there and began to ask them, "What are you doing to this person?" They were giving a demonstration of their technique, and they had to stop. So this is one picture they took while they were actually abducting the person. Just like in the case of New York, this one girl, Mūrtivandya, she was taken. They pulled up in a van, in a car, and dragged her off the street, threw her in the van and drove away. And then, when we filed charges for kidnapping, they turned around and filed the charges against me for kidnapping, saying that we were the kidnappers. Even though they had made a statement confessing to the fact that they had abducted her bodily off the street and she said, "I have been kidnapped," they said, "No, you don't know what you really want. You don't really want to be Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you are really being kidnapped by Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Guru dāsa: Four thousand five hundred dollars. He gave it to me because he trusts me. Then Poland, we're very excited about going. Now there are six men, including Umāpati, and in two weeks we are meeting in Germany, and we are going to chalk out our preaching program. I think it will be very good.
Prabhupāda: Now the time is favorable. The Russians are ordering our books. And there is a prediction, the Russians will be first-class theists.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First-class theists.
Prabhupāda: Now they are atheists. They will become first-class theists. I think that there is... Just like Jagāi and Mādhāi. Jagāi and Mādhāi became great devotees. Vālmīki. Vālmīki was a dacoit. He became a... There are so many cases. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is so superexcellent that we can turn the whole Russia to devotee. That is possible. They are searching after something solid and factual. They are harassed with this so-called Christian religion, Pope, and... That is a fact. They do not want anything humbug. But when they very critically read our literature, they will become devotee.
Prabhupāda: So all over the world does not include Europe?
Indian man (3): No, it does.
Prabhupāda: Then why you ask me? We have got in every country of Europe-England, Germany, France, Portugal, Spain, Rome, Sweden, everywhere.
German man: But the Pope is agreeing with you in Rome?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
German man: The Pope is agreeing?
Devotee (2): The Pope.
Prabhupāda: Pope.
German man: In Rome. He is agreeing with Hare Kṛṣṇa...?
Prabhupāda: But he agree or... Who cares for his agreement?
Correspondence
1968 Correspondence
His Holiness The Pope, Paul VI
Vicar of Jesus Christ
State of Vatican City
Rome, Italy
Your Holiness:
Please accept my respectful humble obeisances at Your lotus feet. I beg to introduce myself as an Indian monk, following the Vedic principles of religious life, and at the present, I am in the renounced order of Sannyas (aged 72 years) and preaching God consciousness all over the world. I came to America in 1965, and since then I have many followers belonging to both Christian and Jewish faiths. And I have established 8 centers of Krishna consciousness temples in the USA and Canada. In the month of September, 1968, I am scheduled to go to London on this mission, and maybe I can visit other cities of European countries.
My mission is in the line of Lord Caitanya, Who is Personified Love of Godhead, and Who advented Himself 482 years ago in India, and preached God consciousness all over the country. His mission is to revive God consciousness all over the world, on the basis of Srimad-Bhagavatam (Science of God). The principle of Srimad-Bhagavatam is that any religious faith which helps a man to develop Love of God, without any motive, and without being hampered by any material condition, is transcendental religion. And the best process or the easiest process, in this age especially, is to chant the Holy name of God. From this definition of religion as we find in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, the criterion test of religion is how it helps people to develop his dormant Love of God, which is not artificially invoked, but it is aroused from within by bona fide association of devotees and hearing about God.
The human form of life is specially meant for this purpose, namely, to invoke the dormant Love of God, because better development of consciousness is found in the human body. Animal propensities for sense gratification equally found both in man and animals. But the special significance of human life is to achieve Love of God as the prime perfection of life. Unfortunately, at the present moment people are more concerned about the principle of sense gratification, or the animal part of human life, and they are gradually declining in God consciousness. This tendency is very much deteriorating, and because Your Holiness is the Head of a great religious sect, I think we should meet together and chalk out a program for cooperation.
The human society cannot anymore be allowed to continue a Godless civilization at the risk of decreasing truthfulness, hygienic principles, forgiveness, and mercifulness. Because on account of predominance of these principles at the present moment, duration of life, strength, and memory of the human being is decreasing. The human society is gradually degrading in the matter of religiosity, and justice; and "might is right" is gradually taking the place of morality and justice. There is practically no more family life, and the union of man and woman is gradually degrading to the standard of sexuality. I understand it from reliable sources that people are trying to get Your Holiness' sanction for contraceptive method, which is certainly against any religion of the world. In the Hindu religion, such contraceptive method or abortion is considered equivalent to murder.
Therefore, in the matter of sex, the human society is gradually degrading even less decent than the animals. As a result of unrestricted sense gratification, even in ordinary dealing, a man cannot trust another man, because the cheating propensity of a man has increased beyond imagination. Attraction of young boys for young girls is no more as a matter of love, but such attraction is only on the basis of sexual potency. As soon as there is slackening of sex life, there is immediately the divorce petition.
In India, which was one day the land of religion and Brahminical culture, things have deteriorated to such an extent that a man in a higher caste is recognized simply by putting a piece of thread on the body as a sign of sanctity. The so-called Swamis are cheating the public because the public also want to be cheated by cheap method of self-realization. They are practicing so-called yoga performances for the matter of reducing fat, and keeping the body fit for sense gratification. If somebody has no sufficient money, it is very hard for him to get justice from the court. And if anyone can simply bluff by so-called advancement of knowledge, he is offered the doctorate degree. If a man is poor, he is at once accepted as non-civilized. If a man is falsely proud, he is accepted as civilized. By frustration, people are gradually becoming communists and hippies, and the guardians of the society must now take up the situation very seriously, without further delay.
The Krishna Consciousness movement is meant for overhauling the whole situation. We are creating men of character, and we are training our disciples to become Lovers of God, or Krishna. From the very beginning, they are trained to refrain from the following four principles of degradation: 1) Sex life outside of marriage, 2) Meat eating, or eating of any animal food, 3) All forms of intoxication, 4) Gambling and idle sports. The teachings are based on authorized movement of Lord Caitanya, on the principles of Bhagavad-gita, as the beginning, and Srimad-Bhagavatam as the graduation.
I do not wish to prolong the body of this letter further, but if you think that a meeting with You will be beneficial for the human society at large, I shall be very much pleased if Your Holiness will grant me an interview. Thanking you in anticipation for an early reply.
Yours in the service of the Lord,
ACB
Regarding the location of your temple: I can understand that the students are not very happy neighbors. Practically they are not students. Because the system in your country to allow the boys and girls enjoying sex life from the very early age makes them most irresponsible and careless. Student life means complete celibacy, but that is not observed in your country, rather they are indirectly encouraged by distribution of contraceptive pills. If things are allowed to go on like this, the future of the Western world is very dark. By such unrestricted association of young boys and girls, is gradually turning them to be victims of the hippy and communist philosophy. So far I have considered it is very difficult to turn the people's face toward spiritual advancement. There is so much protest all over the world in the Catholic church on account of the Pope's refusal to sanction the contraceptive method. Even if you change the locality, you cannot expect very good audience. But still, wherever we may remain, we have to chant and distribute Prasadam, and I think the best method is to do it in the public parks.
1969 Correspondence
If a Christian believes in God let him love God prominently rather than loving matter. If we wish to criticize Christian faith we can do so, and we can prove that hardly there are any sincere Christians. In the ten commandments we see Lord Jesus Christ advised "Thou shalt not kill," but this killing process is still prominent among Christians as well as any other religious group. So much so that it is simply horrible. Recently, the head of the Christian people, the Pope, declined to sanction the killing process in the embryo, namely contraceptive methods. We can see that so many Christians revolted. Apart from this killing process within the embryo, there is also killing process in the slaughterhouse and in so many ways. I do not know how a Christian can violate this important commandment of the Bible, "Thou shalt not kill." So in this way, if we want to criticize we can, but it will simply increase our enemies. Better let us try to invoke the dormant transcendental emotion by chanting and dancing.
1973 Correspondence
Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 5/10/73 as well as the copy of the letter from the Indian Deputy High Commissioner. Regarding my seeing the Pope, now I am India, and then I shall go to Africa, Australia, Hong Kong, and U.S.A. So it is not possible to go there at this time. It can be postponed to a future date. I shall let you know.
Another thing is that now my program is fixed up for going to Nairobi on November 23, instant, and from there I will return to Los Angeles via Rome. I will stop there for two days for meeting with the Pope. So I may request you to send one ticket for Pradyumna (P. . Sherbow) Nairobi-Rome-Los Angeles.
Yes, I may meet with the Pope when returning to USA from Africa.
Please accept my blessings. I beg to inform you that I am fixing my program for going to Nairobi from Bombay on November 23. From Nairobi I shall return to Los Angeles, so if you can arrange a meeting with the Pope then I can stop off there in Rome. So please inform His Holiness the Pope that I shall be returning to USA via Europe sometime after December 1, so if a meeting could be arranged at that time it would be very nice.
1974 Correspondence
As for seeing the Pope, I can see to that when I go there. Mr. Pant knows me well. Please convey my greetings to him and I shall be glad to see him when I go to Rome. You say there are important Indians there so make them all life members and distribute our books to them.
Please accept my blessings. I'm so glad to receive your Special Delivery mail containing BTG. I am so glad to see you have given another step forward in our activity of pushing on the Krsna Consciousness movement. Rome is certainly a very important place in Europe. Big, big headquarters of the Christian world headed by the Pope. The people are naturally religiously inclined there, and I am sure if our movement is properly organized there, surely we shall get many devotees. Please try to remain there and go on propagating Krsna Consciousness as far as possible. My special thanks to you because you have immediately published the magazine.
1976 Correspondence
Concerning the proposed meeting with the Pope, I have no objection cancelling or delaying the journey to Tehran if the meeting with the Pope is assured. That is important. But if it is simply a courtesy visit, then what is the use? If he is prepared to discuss seriously how religion is becoming degraded all over the world, then it is worthwhile. Religion is now being taken as a formality. People generally have no real conception of God. Ours is a tangible connection with God. We know who is God and how to serve Him. Everything is fact.
| Page Title: | Pope |
| Compiler: | Rishab, MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 27 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=6, Con=27, Let=10 |
| No. of Quotes: | 43 |