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Politics (Conversations 1968 - 1973)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Could I ask for a spelling on those?

Prabhupāda: Sannyā... Yes, brahmacārī: b-r-a-h-m-a-c-h-a-r-y, this is brahmacārī. Then gṛhastha: g-r-i-h-a-s-t-h-a, gṛhastha. H-a-s-t-h-a, gṛhastha. G-r-i-h-a-s-t-h-a. Is that clear? Gṛhastha. Then vānaprastha: v-a-n-a-p-r-a-s-t-h-a, vānaprastha. Then sannyāsī: s-n-n-y-a-s-i, sannyāsī. Four divisions. These four divisions, and there are other four orders of social system. That is according to work, division according to work and quality. Just like the brāhmaṇas, b-r-a-h-m-a-i-n-s, brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇas means the most intelligent class of the society. The kṣatriyas, k-s-h-a-t-r-y-a-s, kṣatriyas. Kṣatriyas means persons who are interested in politics, in the management of the country, political affairs. They are called kṣatriyas. Similarly, there is the vaiśyas, v-a-i-s-y-a-s. Vaiśyas means the mercantile, productive class. Those who are engaged in producing grains or trade, milk, and in industry. Of course, industry, artisans, they are called, artists, śūdras. Anyway, any person engaged in producing for the needs of the society, they are called vaiśyas. And the worker class is called śūdra. So according to Vedic system, these are eight divisions. Unless the human society is divided into these eight divisions in terms of material and spiritual progress of life, that is not accepted as human society.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, he was harassed by Durvāsā Muni, and Viṣṇu-cakra punished him sufficiently. Mahārāja Durvāsā... Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was a great king, but a great devotee at the same time. Because he was kṣatriya and householder, Durvāsā Muni, he was envious. Durvāsā Muni was brāhmaṇa and a great yogi. So he could not tolerate that a householder king... King is supposed to be dealing in politics, economics. Therefore, according to social position, he is lesser than the brāhmaṇa because they are simply engaged in the matter of transcendental advancement of life. But a devotee is above the brāhmaṇas. That is the position of devotee. Here, the highest qualitative position is to be situated in the modes of goodness or to acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa, in this material world. Truthfulness, controlling the senses, controlling the mind, simplicity and knowledge, faith in God, there are so many qualifications which makes a person as recognized brāhmaṇa. But a devotee, never mind whether he's brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla, he automatically develop all these qualities.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Calcutta, Bombay, is really important city in India, big business, port, all rich men, every kind of, all cultural, everything—Calcutta, and Bombay. Originally only Calcutta, now Bombay also. Because the Britishers, they made Calcutta capital. And Calcutta was very, very important city. But these Calcutta men, they create sometimes situation, very complicated. So once in 1905 the same situation was there, politically. Sir Surendranath Bannerjee made, Surendranath Bannerjee's movement, partition of Bengal. Lord Collier, he wanted to divide Bengal, made it East Bengal and West Bengal. And Surendranath Bannerjee... He is the practically father of Indian politics. Gandhi's not. He was. He was. And in the beginning, in European circles he was famous. He was called "Surrender-not." The spelling of the name, s-u-r-e-n-d-e-r, Surendranath. In Parliament he was known as "Surrender-not." He was a very powerful politician. So there was trouble in Calcutta; so therefore they transferred, 1911, capital to Delhi. Otherwise, from the very beginning of British occupation Calcutta was the capital. You have seen the government viceroy's house near that Hamilton building where you were trying to purchase.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: The same thing. The parliamentary members... Just like nowadays, party. India is suffering in party politics. And they did not like to give importance to monarchy. They wanted to rule according to their whims, and therefore the whole scheme failed. The so-called democracy under party politics is nonsense. Monarchy... I have said. That day I was in remarking that "This democracy is the government of the asses," because the population are asses and they vote another ass to be head of the government. So what you can do? Sayuddhe kriyate rājan sa kim asnu pahanam. These are instructions in Sanskrit. "If you make a dog a king, don't you think that he will still lap the shoes?" You cannot change his habits. Sva... Yasya bhāvasya na sa sudurate kramaḥ. Anyone's habits, even if you give good position, you cannot change it. The example is just like if you make a dog the king, he will immediately come from the throne and bite the shoes. You see? So materially you cannot change. Only by spiritual understanding one can be...

Haṁsadūta: Canakya Pandit... I have see that book, and he says in his book that if a crow sits on a high (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you make a crow... The crow generally sits on the roof of the house, but that does not mean he has become a great man. "How great I am, a very beautiful bird."

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: So every state, the native prince, the Britishers maintained so many native prince. And because they maintained them, they were friends to the Britishers. They knew the policy, if you create zamindar, landlord. They created this aristocratic class to support them. So when Gandhi and other leaders started this movement all the princes and zamindars, they were in favor of British. Therefore it took so much time to transfer. And as a retaliation, the common people have bereft them of their kingdom. "No more kingdom because you always supported Britishers." It is a great politics. Therfore they have taken... The zamindars, immediately after this attainment of independence, all the zamindars and kings were bereft of their possessions. You were in Calcutta? Oh, none of you were with me. We saw one house for purchasing. That was a big zamindar's house, Tagore Thakur(?) You saw? Yes. If you have saw... How nicely it was. When they were in opulence in our childhood, oh, it was a house to be seen. There are many houses. Just like in England the lord families.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Yes, already. Even in small scale we can start from Boston.

Haṁsadūta: Just like one or two pages.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Never mind. Just like I began in that way. You have seen the...

Haṁsadūta: Yes, I saw the original Back to Godhead. A lot of your articles were commenting about current events.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The editorial board must be very intelligent how to talk about Back to Godhead with current politics. Giriraja, you can do that?

Giriraja: I could try.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Revatīnandana: When they want to come back, is it very easy for them to come back or have they got to...?

Prabhupāda: No, they automatically come back because he is hankering after varieties. So that variety is not there, so he is attracted again in the material world. Just like so many sannyāsīs. Take Vivekananda. He wanted to lecture on Vedānta, which is liberation. He came again back to the hospitalizing and philanthropic work because he could not find the variety of pleasure in Vedānta. Of course, he was not very much advanced. There are many. There is a... Sannyāsī is here. he's a Kārpātrī(?). He is very learned and other... He was formerly speaking on Vedānta and other... Now he is in politics and cow protection. You see? There are many.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Guest: I also read Gītā. What's the difference? I mean, Mahatma Gandhi...

Prabhupāda: He never surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. I wrote him letter. "Mahatma Gandhi, you have got so much influence. You just preach the gospel of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. Now we have attained svarāj. You don't be in politics." But he was still in politics after attainment of svarāj. And his assistants became disgusted because he was interfering, and therefore he was killed. And that is open secret. If he would have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, "All right. Now I have worked for svarāj. My people have got svarāj. Now let me work for Kṛṣṇa,"... He never did that. You cannot say that he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He should have taken immediately sannyāsa and preached Bhagavad-gītā if he was actually surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. What did he do for Kṛṣṇa? We have to know from practical point of view. I'll tell you another story about Mahatma Gandhi. My Guru Mahārāja invited him in our maṭha, Mahatma Gandhi. So Mahatma Gandhi inquired... The, my godbrothers went to invite him. "What you are doing in your maṭha?" They replied that "We are worshiping Lord Kṛṣṇa." So he inquired, "Are you pulling on charka?" They said, "No sir," He said, "Charka is my God. If there is no charka, I am not going there." He said like that.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: The, the confusion, confusion has come into existence because in India in later days the son of a brāhmaṇa, without having the brahminical qualification, claimed to be brāhmaṇa, and others, out of superstition or traditional way, they were accepted as brāhmaṇa. Therefore the Indian social order has disrupted. But our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are picking up from everywhere brāhmaṇas, everywhere, because the world needs the brain of a brāhmaṇa. Just like here, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, although he was a monarch, he had a body of learned sages and brāhmaṇas to consult, advisory body. It is not that the monarchs were independent. In the history it is found that some of the monarchs were not in order. They were dethroned by the brahminical advisory committee. Although the brāhmaṇas, they did not take part in politics, but they would give advice to the monarch how to, I mean to say, execute the royal function. Just like not, not very old, very, say, about... What is the age of, I mean to say, Asoka? Say about thousands of years ago.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: So Vedic authorities, authoritative statement, are accepted by the ācāryas. Just like India is governed by the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, and Śaṅkarācārya. They accept in that, and the followers accept them. The benefit is that whether cow dung is pure or impure, I do not waste my time, but because it is stated in the Vedas, I take it, so I save my time. Śruti-pramāṇa. In that way there are different statements in the Vedas for sociology and politics and anything because Vedas means knowledge. Vedas means knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Vetti veda vido jñāne. Vid-dhātu, when it is used for knowledge, it is called Veda.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Just like we, at least myself, if you invite me to come to the administration, I will not be interested. We are interested in different thing. So similarly, naturally there is a division. The intelligent class of men, they like to study philosophy, they like to understand what is the ultimate goal of life, so many things. So intelligent class of men should be engaged in that business. They should not be dragged in other platform. And those who are inclined to take part in politics, administration, that class also should be trained how to rule over the country, how to make satisfied the citizens. They should be trained up, as in business people are trained up. Now the fault is without being trained, simply by votes one becomes prime minister or (indistinct). He has no training how to administer, but simply by vote, he occupies a big post. And that is his qualification. But he does not know how to rule over, how to make the people satisfied. Therefore, chaos. Daily everywhere, government is changing. Daily, weekly, this government, that government, that government. Why? Because they are not trained up how to administer. Therefore, that is required. Tejaḥ.

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Your conclusion was wrong. Just like Vivekananda and many others, now present, presently there is one Kalabatri(?). Vivekananda was actually rascal. He, he had no knowledge. But the Kalabatri(?) is actually very learned man. He has studied all the Vedas, great Sanskrit scholar, but still, because he did not worship the lotus feet of the Lord, he is also proving rascal. He is now in politics. He has got a political party, Rama-Rajya Party, and nobody cares for him. He is insulted so many place, but still, but he's so learned, if, if anyone, anybody goes and reads scriptures and Vedas, he can give very good reference and very nicely explain, but the conclusion is dull. Conclusion is dull means again he has come to this philanthropy work. So therefore Bhāgavata says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa: "Although they have undergone great austerities, penances," āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32), "realized to some extent the Supreme Absolute Truth," but patanty adhaḥ, "falls down."

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: In India also, I tried. I wrote Mahatma Gandhi that "You are very respectable man, and people like you. You preach Bhagavad-gītā. You stand with your photograph. There is Bhagavad-gītā. Why don't you preach Bhagavad-gītā? Now politics is finished. You have got independence." But this politics is so sweet to these politicians, that until he was killed, he could not give up politics, until he was killed. He was advocating non-violence, but he was forced to die by violence. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. He was forced to accept partition of India. He was so much baffled, but still, he would not give up politics until he was killed. On the day of his death, in the morning, because he had so many letters, so many secretaries, so he said, "I am very much useless. I want to die." He said like that. And actually, in the evening he was killed. He was thinking that "My next solace is only death," because he could understand, "I have created simply problems. No problem I have solved. I have simply created problem." He was a sane man. He could understand it. So similarly, everyone is creating simply problems, without solving... This United Nations, what they are doing for the last twenty years? Simply creating problems. So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no question of solving problems. That's a fact. Any sane man, any philosopher, any scientist may come. I shall convince him.

Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: So everyone has got the right to take advantage of his father's property. This is Bhāgavata communism. The communists are thinking in terms of their own country. But we, a devotee, we think in terms of all living entities, wherever he is, either in the sky or in the land or in the water. These things are explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Everything, politics, sociology, religion, philosophy, science, astronomy—everything is there in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And we should not take this movement as a religious movement. It is not religious movement. It is a movement for understanding knowledge. Veda. Veda means knowledge. So religion, according to English dictionary, is a kind of faith. Faith you can change. You have faith today in something. Tomorrow you may change. So this is knowledge. Any human being must be interested with advancement of knowledge.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Thieves, stealing from each other.

Prabhupāda: That's all. They don't want to see people very enlightened. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." But at least how to become wise, that injunction has been given to you. Now you try to save the country, how to do it. These people will not be. You'll have to educate the people, and they'll vote you to the senators, president, and then your country will be nice. Just like by Kurukṣetra, Kṛṣṇa smashed all Duryodhana and company, and He posted Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. That is the Kṛṣṇa's politics. He wanted to smash all these demons and have His own men posted on the royal throne. When Kali could not penetrate into the daily behavior of the people, he planned killing of Parīkṣit Maharaja. So, one Kali brāhmaṇa cursed him to death, for no fault practically. Therefore the brāhmaṇas of this age, they are condemned. The so-called caste brāhmaṇas, they're condemned. That is lamented by the father of the boy who cursed Parīkṣit Maharaja.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Guest (2): What are the kṣatriyas of this order supposed to doing now?

Prabhupāda: They are taking to politics. Yes.

Guest (2): Whom are they fighting? Whom are they going to fight?

Prabhupāda: No, some of our members, they are standing for election in the government. Election. And we hope one day some of our men will become President. That is kṣatriya's business, to take part in administration.

Guest (2): No fighter? No fighting? They are not going to fight? They're not going to become warriors, not like the real kṣatriyas.

Prabhupāda: Well, when you take part in politics you have to fight. (laughter) Yes.

Guest (2): I don't mean that. I mean muṣṭi fighting.

Prabhupāda: Well, if required, muṣṭi fight will be there. Arjuna, Arjuna was fighting. He was Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: We are teaching that it is your..., this your duty. Our so-called material duties as we have done, "This is my duty," this is called dharma. But Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You give up your all nonsense duty." (laughter) Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya.

Devotee: Give up your duty.

Prabhupāda: Give up your all nonsense duty. Kṛṣṇa says. So your first duty is to give up your nonsense duty. (laughter) That is your first duty. That "You have concocted so many duties, but please give up all these ideas." That is your first duty. Everyone has manufactured his duty. Just like in our country all the leaders, they thought, "This is my duty," and every other country also, "take to politics." Huh? But people did not become happy. Rather, they were so unhappy that a great leader like Gandhi was killed. But he thought, "I am doing my duty." But why he was killed?

Indian: That is inevitable.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are responsible. If you give a sharpened razor in the hands of a child, the child will cut here and there. So who is responsible: the parent or the child?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Parent.

Prabhupāda: So the rascal scientist is responsible for giving such things in the hands of the rascals. Politicians are the most rascal; the most scoundrel, they go to politics. Politician means a tenth-class man. No first-class man goes to politics. Suppose if somebody says to me that "You come and become president." Why shall I go there? What can I do there? I know I shall not be able to do anything, so why shall I take the post?

Jayatīrtha: They just like to lord it over.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I cannot say... Suppose if I become president, and if I want to say that stop this slaughterhouse, immediately I will be removed. So I cannot do anything, even if I become president, so why shall I accept this post? No sane man, no gentleman will go to the post because he knows he will not be able to do anything for the welfare of the public.

Jayatīrtha: They're so corrupt.

Prabhupāda: So corrupt. (indistinct) Even one wants to do... just like President Kennedy, he wanted to do something good—he was shot down. Gandhi wanted to do something—he was shot down. So the politics is so corrupted that as soon as you are prepared to do something actually, you will be killed.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: Why was it the programs failed?

Prabhupāda: Because his disciples, they had a different program. They wanted politics like the Western countries. They did not want... Just like all the politicians, they do not want anything good for the people. They simply want to make some money for their (indistinct), that's all. This is the whole policy of the modern diplomats and politicians. They do not know, you go to hell. Other way, in your country you see so many young men are frustrated. So what government is doing actually? They are not serious. They have made this policy that catch them and send them, keep the Vietnam going on and kill them, all these useless boys should be killed. That is their policy. That is the Western policy: if you don't like anyone, shoot. So if your fathers and grandfathers they could not make you right, then send them to Vietnam to be killed. This is going on. Suicidal policy. If when a good man becomes too much frustrated, he commits suicide. That is also very current in your country. But the same suicidal policy, these boys, hippies, they could not reform them-kill them, that's all.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's not a scientist. He's called a naturalist.

Prabhupāda: Naturalist. Anyway, you can call him a philosopher. So the basic point is wrong. Starting is wrong. Starting point is mistake and illusion. Therefore, the next point is cheating. If you start from wrong conception of life, then if you distribute knowledge, that means cheating. You do not know, still you are distributing knowledge. But this rascal Darwin, he has no clear idea. He is simply theorizing, speculating, and misleading people. Therefore, he is cheating. So if I cheat you and you cheat me, then how you can expect perfection of life? It is a society of cheating, and that is actually going on. Everyone is thinking, "How I have gorgeous way cheated you." That is politics, diplomacy. If you can cheat your friend very cleverly, then you are supposed to be very big man. Big lawyer means the law is there, but if he can cheat the law, then he is big lawyer.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Russians. Russian young boys are as good as Americans. By artificial means they have been checked. The Russian government is not good at all. Suppression. Simply suppression.

Indian man: But they permit this kind of thing?

Prabhupāda: They do not permit, but they are holding class.

Indian man: Holding class.

Prabhupāda: Yes, reading Bhagavad-gītā. And I am getting that boy married with my one French girl disciple. Then he will be strong. (laughs) We are also playing politics. You know that...

Gurudāsa: Mandākinī.

Prabhupāda: Mandākinī, yes. Very nice girl. You have seen her?

Devotee (3): Very nice pujārī.

Prabhupāda: Very intelligent, educated, beautiful, everything. And I have asked her that "You go to Russia and marry that boy." She has accepted.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: They haven't traced it to him yet, but all his chief aides, they have all been implicated. It was during the election.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So therefore they are defeated.

Brahmānanda: Yeah. They knew what the Democrats were doing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This position is at the present moment, no honest man can become a government officer, everywhere. Unless he is a rogue, dishonest person, he cannot maintain his governmental position. Therefore no noble man is going to the government. But what you can do?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Politicians are the greatest cheaters.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Scoundrel. Some philosopher said that "Politics is the last place of the scoundrel. That is their last resort." In India we see same thing. Harer nāma, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). So design some means how to fight with these...

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: Yes, yes. But what happens that some people have a social dimension, social political dimension, and have no spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But then it seems to me—I'm just asking—that we, when we are emphasizing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are in danger of forgetting the social political dimension. So how to bring this...

Prabhupāda: You are thinking wrongly that we are not responsible. Why you are thinking like that? You are thinking wrongly. Kṛṣṇa did not take in politics, part? Then why you are thinking?

Reporter: No, no, I'm not saying Kṛṣṇa did not take... I'm just saying that it seems that He sometimes, it seems, that people who emphasize the spiritual consciousness do not clarify enough..., it is not clear enough—and I'm not saying it's not there but it's not clear enough—the social political dimension, social action, political action, how we run our society in its practical terms. So it is not clear.

Prabhupāda: It is clear. If you are actually surrendered soul, then to you it is clear, it is very clear. Kṛṣṇa gives direction, that this is the business of the brāhmaṇa, this is the business of kṣatriya. So politics is the business of the kṣatriya. So if you act according to Kṛṣṇa's direction in politics, then you are surrendered soul. It is not that because we have got this mālā and tilaka we are surrendered soul, and a kṣatriya cannot be surrendered soul, or a vaiśya cannot be surrendered soul. You have to act according to the direction. Kṛṣṇa is giving direction: "This is brāhmaṇa's karma." You do it. That means you are surrendered soul, at the same time you are acting as a brāhmaṇa. But if you act whimsically, then what is your surrender? And why did you become a brāhmaṇa? Then there is chaos. That is the present position of the society. They are not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they do not abide by the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Still, they have become leaders. Then the whole thing is chaos.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: But he was not in power or position.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, could not give up the politics. I wrote Gandhi, "You have so much respect now, now you have got sva-rāja, you give up this business, let us preach Bhagavad-gītā, people will hear you." Before starting this movement, long ago, I wrote him a letter.

Reporter: But he was praying, he was going to pray Hare Kṛṣṇa. He was devotee.

Prabhupāda: He was for political emancipation.

Reporter: Hm?

Prabhupāda: No, we don't want to discuss, but the thing is that...

Reporter: (laughs)

Prabhupāda: ...these politicians, they do not grow vairāgya, even up to the point of death.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: New Gokula. Hm, hm, it's very good.

Prabhupāda: They've got New Vrindaban, New Navadvīpa, New Jagannātha Purī, New Dvārakā...

Pradyumna: New Gayā...

Prabhupāda: ...New Gayā, and this is the New Gokula. You are in touch in politics, therefore I'm talking something of politics, that the politicians of India, they wanted the..., from the British government, India, a strong united nation. But they could not achieve that goal. Pakistan was taken away. They're now lamenting, or there is some, always unsettled anxiety due to Pakistan. So... So far this movement is concerned, we are spreading the Indian culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all over the world. So the politicians are lamenting for division of India, and here is a movement that everyone will glorify India for this culture. Why do they not join? It is practical.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: He's a linguist scholar.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, very scholar. It is first time you visit France?

Prabhupāda: This is the third time.

Bhagavān: Third time, trois.

Cardinal Danielou: Trois fois, trois fois, trois fois.

Yogeśvara: Our spiritual master was very interested when I informed him that you have had several meetings with political leaders of France as well, that you have, that your interests extend into government and politics as well as religion.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: So our Vedic conception of politics. The king is the representative of God.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes.

Prabhupāda: King.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: And to get help for this realization we are concerned with everything. Naturally, politics, economics, science, art, philosophy, everything is included. And that is the perfection of all other subject matter. Everything has got an objective. So any of these departmental knowledge, namely politics, economics, art, science, philosophy, religion, art, science, philosophy, religion, everything should be aimed to achieve this end, God realization.

Reporter: But, thank you. But, uh, so, in this way, you have to, in all of the science, you mean, economic, politic, etc., you have to take position, sometimes perhaps. For instance, for going to the knowing of Kṛṣṇa in politics perhaps you will choose one system or the other. And in science, in philosophy, etc. Do you... But this, those choose have never been explained to the people, you know.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it should be.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Now here is economics, politics and everything. So by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we want to see that everyone is getting nicely the necessities of life. That is economic. Is it not?

Reporter: It is economic in a very, in a very...

Prabhupāda: Brotherhood. Actually, we develop economics for getting the necessities of life. Is it not? That is economics.

Reporter: Yeah. But the point is that these necessities of life is a frontier, you know, (indistinct) which is always farther, and farther and farther, always more pushed, pushed away, pushed away by new things. So...

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is artificial. That is artificial. We are not concerned with artificial things. Just like you require to eat. Now artificially you can increase so many things for eating purposes. But you must eat. That is the economic question. It is not that you should starve. It is not our proposal that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious by starving. No. You must have sufficient necessities of life.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: How should society be organized in order to achieve these goals?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You organize that there should be division of different classes of men. The first class men, the second class men, the third class men, fourth class men. The first-class men means the most intelligent class of men. Second-class men means those who are dealing in politics. Third-class men means those who are dealing in economics, industry, trade. And fourth-class men means they have no intelligence to take up all these things, but they work only. But all of them should cooperate. For the general benefit of the whole human society. We have got engagement for the first-class men, second-class men, third-class men, fourth-class men. Just like we have got in our body the brain, the arms, the belly, and the legs. But all of them are cooperating for keeping the body fit. Similarly, the first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men should cooperate for achieving the end, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where this chanting effect will go? Yes. The chanting... Hare Kṛṣṇa. But I mean to say that he could not teach what Rāma.

Guest (1): (laughs) No.

Prabhupāda: That is his misfortune. But in spite of his misfortune, because he was practiced to chant the name of Rāma, he was pious. Although he was ignorant. He was absorbed in thought of politics. He should have, if he would have understood that Rāma is a fact, Kṛṣṇa is a fact... That he did not understand. Then he would have preached the glories of Rāma, glories of Kṛṣṇa. He took the chanting of Rāma for his political purposes. He utilized for political purpose. Just like... That is nāma-aparādha. Samaḥ śubha-kriyā mati pramāṇaḥ (?). He was trying to get some material profit by chanting the holy name of Rāma. That he got, material profit. He was the most famous politician, all over the world.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are Muslim, and, it is my duty as government to see that you are actually acting as a Muslim. If you are a Hindu, it is the government's duty to see that you are acting as a Hindu. If you are a Christian, it is the government's duty. You cannot give up religion. Dharmena hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. If people become irreligious in the name of secularism, then they are simply animals. So it is the government's duty to see that the citizens are not becoming animals. He may profess a type of religion. That doesn't matter. But he must be religious. That is secular state. Not that secular state means government is callous, "Let the people become cats and dogs, without religion. Government doesn't care." That is not good government. What do you think?

Ambassador: I think, Your Eminence, there's a lot in what you say, but, you know, politics is the art of the possible.

Prabhupāda: No. No, politics means to see that people are advanced, citizens are advanced, not that they are degraded.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: So our, our point is that you may express your own op... Everyone has got right to... Especially Mahatma Gandhi, he was actually a great personality. There is no doubt about it. But so far Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, he did not know anything. But from his behavior, it was seen that at heart he was a devotee. Yes. At heart he was a devotee. Yes. Because he was chanting...

Ambassador: Yes, of course, he, of course, shares with you this belief in chants. That we noticed, yes, very much in...

Prabhupāda: That raghupati rāghava rājā rāma.

Ambassador: Vaiṣṇavism.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So that... But maybe for politics, he has explained like that.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Yes. A big rascal. That's it. A big rascal. A big rascal is eulogized by small rascals. That's all.

Dr. Hauser: Seducing a small rascal.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Hauser: Seducing a small rascal.

Prabhupāda: Another small rascal. This is the position. Everything is going on like that. Not only in science, philosophy, religion, sociology, politics. The, a big rascal and small rascal. That's all.

Dr. Hauser: But you must evoke quite a lot of feelings when you say, for example, that Einstein was a very big rascal.

Prabhupāda: No. He believed in God. Yes. He believed in God. He was not a rascal. A sane man.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: Although Nixon says, in every television speech, that he is a God believer.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Hauser: Nixon says, at least, that he is a God believer.

Prabhupāda: That is his politics.

Dr. Hauser: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Maybe God believer, but...

Dr. Hauser: Are you leaving for...

Paramahaṁsa: Six-ten. We leave in ten, fifteen minutes. Would you care to go?

Dr. Hauser: No, I have to go back to my, to this emergency ward. One of my colleagues was, were ill today, and I had to replace him.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: It is a question of taste. Just see birds, two kinds of birds, crows and the swans, different taste. Therefore we are trying to create taste for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then these crows' place, newspaper, we'll not... We don't read newspaper. We don't touch it unless there is some news of ours. We don't touch it. What is the use of wasting time? They read so big, big bundle of newspaper. But we don't touch them. Oh, we have got (indistinct) literature here. Why should we waste our time in the crows' manifestation? The same politics, same Nixon, same Dixon, same Hitler. It is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. Things which have already been chewed and thrown away, another person is crying, "Let me see if there's any juice." But you have already chewed. What juice you find there? Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), again and again, same politics, same new leader, same he's a rascal. Just like Nixon advertises in news, "America now requires Nixon." So America accepted him and now America doesn't want him. Again another Nixon will come. This is going on, punaḥ punaḥ, again and again, chewing the chewed. The people are not disgusted but we have tasted all these rascals.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Tapasya is the life of the human being. Not to live like cats and dogs. That is not human life. Restrained. Tapasya. But here there is no, at the present moment, there is no question of tapasya. Even one is ninety years old, he's still engaged in these material activities. Even a person like Gandhi, unless he was killed, he would not give up politics. The material activities are so palatable for the materialists, that even up to the point of death... In Bengal, there was a big zamindar. So his father, er, his sons asked him at the time of death, "Father, what we can do for you, last desires?" So he expressed that "That man is my enemy. If you can bring him here and beat him with shoes, I'll be very much satisfied." This is material world. Even at the time of death, he's thinking enmity with others. And he will, he wanted to be happy that "If you bring that man and beat him with shoes, I'll be very happy." The other day somebody said that one man was cut into two, and he was asked, "What do you want?" He said, "Give me a cigarette." (laughter) This is the position.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think there is a lot of politics in it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. As soon as you go against the standard rules and regulations, there must be some motive. That is politics. That is politics. All politicians, they are with motive. They are not for... Now, all these big, big political parties, they are fighting with one another. They are simply trying to keep their post and they are fighting for that. So where is the time for them to think of the general people, how they will be happy? There is no time. It is the Kṛṣṇa conscious people who are actually thinking of others. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava qualification is he is unhappy by seeing others... (break) Let us enlighten them. Otherwise what is the use of working in this old age? (Aside:) Come on. Vaiṣṇava's qualification is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Because without God consciousness, without understanding "What I am, what is God, what is my relationship," everyone shall remain unhappy. There cannot be happiness. Without knowledge of God, nobody can be happy.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah. So Napoleon was. But before constructing that arch, he was finished in battle of Waterloo. So all the struggle he made to make France a great country and him to become a great leader was futile. It was not perfectly done. In one statue I saw, "France and Napoleon identical." But France is there; where is Napoleon? Therefore it is called illusion, māyā. Just like our Gandhi, in this country, he struggled so hard, got independence. But just after independence he was killed, finished. He could not enjoy. He simply struggled. You cannot say that he had no desire to enjoy. Then how he was sticking to that politics? And because he was sticking to that politics, he was killed. If he would have retired from politics, he would not have been killed. Therefore because he was sticking to that politics means he wanted to enjoy the fruit. But he could not. Therefore we do not know what is the perfection of life. Because we create so-called paraphernalia of perfection of life, but we are not allowed to enjoy it, therefore we must accept, "There is superior power. Without His sanction I may create very favorable situation, but I may not be allowed to enjoy it." Suppose you are bank manager. If the post is that "Yes, you will be appointed to day and tomorrow you will be kicked out." Will you accept it?

Banker: Happens all the time.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: I, I... I don't think you should advise him, her...

Śyāmasundara: I mean I don't need to really.

Prabhupāda: ...about politics.

Śyāmasundara: She knows it. She knows that you... And also this American ambassador could use some favorable publicity.

Prabhupāda: No, this Bhagavad-gītā contains everything—politics, sociology, religion, philosophy. So this culture should be spread; this India's culture, original culture, should be spread. And we are endeavoring that. And it is becoming successful.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Give up your material activities and engage yourself in spiritual activities. That is mukti. Just like a man in diseased condition, he is acting. He is also acting. He is also passing stool, passing urine, eating something, lying down, talking. He has got activities. But that activities and when he is free from the disease, that activity is different. Similarly, if you change your activity, you can become mukta even in this life. That is mukti, real mukti. Muktir hitvānyathā-rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). If you give up your diseased conditional activities... Just like these boys who are in Kṛṣṇa, they are muktas, because they are not interested with any material activities. They are not interested to read in the morning any newspaper. No. They cannot waste their time in that way or take part in politics. No. They are simply interested in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and reading these books. Therefore they are muktas. They are all liberated.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Devotees are beginning more and more, Śrīla Prabhupāda, under your instruction, to enter into politics. But the political leaders, they will claim, "Well you have no experience. How can you be qualified to...?"

Prabhupāda: No, we have got experience. If there is a good man, he'll do, he'll act very nice. That we have got experience. Just like if a man is honest, you can trust him. This is our experience. So similarly, if the leaders be good according to this standard, then the whole human society will be happy. This is our propaganda. We are not after the post, but we have to disclose this rascaldom, that "All these rascals, animals, fools, they are taking the post of leader, and you are suffering repeatedly, but you have no sense that 'How we can be happy with this Nixon and company's leadership?' " So therefore we want to disclose the fact, that's all. We have no ambition. Just like we are brāhmaṇas. We have nothing to do, but according to Vedic civilization, the brāhmaṇas guides the kṣatriyas how to rule. So our position is to reform the politicians. We are not going to compete with them, we have no business, neither we have time. But because people are suffering—we want everyone to be happy-therefore we want to reform these rascals. That is our goal. What we shall do taking part in politics? We have no business. But our real aim is how people will be happy. That is our real aim. So these rascals are leading, misleading.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Unless she become atheist how you can stay in that post? She must be atheist. Or she may not be atheist, but for political reasons she must become atheist. Otherwise she cannot maintain her post. All these politicians, they are simply duplicity. Actually they are something else, but in political post they must show themselves as something else. This is politics.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When Nehru said that all factories, chemical factories and these iron factories are our temples, these are our temples.

Yaśomatīnandana: Nehru was a big atheist too, he openly declared.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he was first-class atheist. Now he has become a dog. Yes, some astrologer has said. He has become a dog in Sweden. A man has got two dogs. Out of the two he is one.

Yaśomatīnandana: Nehru?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is quite believable.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Nara-nārāyaṇa: So if we are in the proper line, then our political activities also can become successful?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Why not? Kṛṣṇa was in politics. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means all-round: social, political, philosophical, religious, cultural, everything. It is not one-sided. They take it as... They do not know. Therefore they are thinking it is a religious movement. No, it is all-including, all-including, all-pervasive.

Umāpati: Well, they have incorporated a particular philosophy into the constitution requiring separation of church and state, what they call separation of church and state in this country.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is... We have already separated. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. That is already separated.

Umāpati: So there are certain restrictions about religious organizations entering politics.

Prabhupāda: So what does it mean? Christians, they do not take part in politics?

Umāpati: Well, they can't do it as...

Karandhara: Not the churches.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Śrutakīrti: You said to me in the garden the other day that there are two kind of ignorant people. One is ignorant innocent and the other is rascal ignorant, and that we should preach to the innocent. But all these politicians, they are not innocent, they are rascal.

Prabhupāda: They are rascal. They are rascal. Maybe some of them are innocent also. But mostly they are rascal because without being first-class rascal, one cannot go into politics. Just like if somebody says... Now, election. Somebody says that "You become vice-president." So why shall I become vice-president? Because I know I shall not be able to do anything. So why shall I waste my time? So another rascal, he will be ready. "Oh, offering vice-president?" But I know that if I want to manage the state, I have to make the people sinless. So if I propose that "Stop this slaughterhouse," so who will accept me? So why shall I go there? Nobody will accept me. Senate, senators, they will say, "Oh, this is business. This is impractical. You have no experience." He will immediately reject. So therefore mass of people must be conscious what is God, what is sin. So when they will be prepared, these rascals will be changed.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well, in politics, unless there is violence, you cannot take. Simply by sweet words, not possible. That was the difference between our political leaders, Mahatma Gandhi and Subhash Chandra Bose. So Subhash Chandra Bose was of opinion that—and that is a fact—that "You are agitating non-violence. These people will never care for your non-violence. Unless there is violence, so these Britishers will never go away." So Gandhi would say, "No, I am not going to accept this violence theory. I shall continue." So for thirty years... He started from 1917 and up to '47, the Britishers did not go. But when Subhash Chandra Bose, he saw... He took the political power. He became the president. But Gandhi was angry. So because he was old leader, out of respect, he resigned the presidentship. Then he though that "So long this man will live, there will be no independence." So he went out of India and joined with Hitler, and Tojo, Japanese.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This Subhash Chandra Bose. And he organized the INA, Indian National Army. So when this Indian National Army was organized and the Britishers... They were great politicians. They saw, "Now the army is going to national movement. We cannot be." Then they left. Because it was not possible. They were maintaining British Empire with Indian money, Indian men. You see? They did not conquer by their British soldiers all round the Far East, Burma and the Mesopotamia, and the Egypt. That was Indian army, the Sikh soldiers and the Gurkha soldiers, and Indian money. On the pretext that "For Indian protection, we are maintaining this army." Actually, they were expanding their empire. Africa, Burma. And when they saw that "India is lost," voluntarily they liquidated all others. Went back... Back to home, back to Godhead. (devotees laugh) So in politics this is nonsense, non-violence. It is nonsense, cowardism. In politics in sweet words you cannot get. There must be fight, arms. That is army. "If you don't agree, then fist." That is politics. There must be violence. Otherwise you cannot control. When there is educated good men, then you can argue. But when people are ruffians, there is no question of good... Argumentum vaculum, I told you the other day... (break) ...in the beginning of creation, the fight between the demons and the demigods, devāsura-yuddha. That is always there. In the European history, without revolution, no order changes. Even the Russian Revolution was there. French revolution was there.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So without revolution, (indistinct), you cannot change old order. "Old orders changes giving place to new." That old order changes... Everywhere it is by violence. The Mahābhārata also, the Battle of Kurukṣetra. Kṛṣṇa was there. He tried to settle up. But it was not settled without violence. Paritrāṇāya... What is that? Vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Kṛṣṇa also comes, vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, to, for killing the demons. Kṛṣṇa also comes.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: (break) ...will be overthrown and replaced with God conscious beings.

Prabhupāda: No. I am not talking of any government. We are not in politics. We are talking of preaching. Why? Why this government should you try to change. Where is the better replacement? First of all find out the better replacement. Then you talk of changing. Where is the better replacement? To replace one rascal with another, that is not... Now democratic government, if the people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then naturally their leader will be Kṛṣṇa conscious. So automatically it will change. There is no question of violence. What is the use? Now, suppose by violence you become the president of the United States. Will you be able to do something?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: No.

Page Title:Politics (Conversations 1968 - 1973)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Serene
Created:12 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=48, Let=0
No. of Quotes:48