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Politicians (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa only. (break) That is foolishness. Why our men does not become ready before four o'clock and have maṅgala ārati and kīrtana? If our habits are not changed, then what is the use of spending so much money? (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In no way can anyone say that they're independent. There is no possibility. At every moment one is dependent. And if anyone says they aren't, they are simply foolish rascals. We have to challenge everyone in the world on this point, "You cannot be independent." He is pointing out, saying that even in politics, the politicians like Indira think that they are independent, and Prabhupāda was saying that Munshibhai Raman, he fought so hard for his country's independence, Bangladesh. But in one hour, when the soldiers came, they killed him and every single family member, not sparing anyone. But he thought he was independent. He thought his country had become independent. But in one hour it was all wiped away.

Prabhupāda: So where is your independence? What is the answer? At any moment you have to die. Even Munshibhai Raman or Mussolini or big, big, so..., Napoleon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Franco. There was that Franco.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. He was given horse urine to drink, Napoleon. Such a great hero, but he had to drink horse urine. This Englishman after Battle of, what is that? Waterloo. When he was arrested, when he was asking water, he was given horse urine. Because everyone was very, very angry. Napoleon became just like Hiranyakasipu. They were threatening their children: "Oh, he, Bona, is coming. Sleep. Sleep. Sleep." He became so much.... He was known as Bona. You do not know all these things?

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Why do you speak in the middle? You should hear. Yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubham, yan-nāma śruti-mātrena pumān bhavati nirmalaḥ. And this rascals says the nāma has no.... See. We have to meet simply rascals all over. The so-called religionists, so-called swamis, so-called yogis, so-called politicians. You see? Simply we have to meet with all rascals.

Indian man: No, he was reminding me of this Jyoti Mahārāja showing that article on Kṛṣṇa Jayantī day to the reading out to the entire audience. That was a rubbish.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, read to the whole audience.

Prabhupāda: He was reading?

Indian man: Ah, that is what he reminds me, because I said the incident which I had with him.... On Kṛṣṇa Jayantī day I did not go there. But on that day it was being read out. That was the silly part of it.

Yaśodānandana: So Prabhupāda, these same people that...

Prabhupāda: So what is the wrong there? What was the wrong?

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: "They" not. What I am talking with you. They are all foolish. We call them mūḍhas, duṣkṛtino mūḍhas. So their demand is not legitimate. If a mūḍha... If your small child says, "Father, give me a bidi, cigarette," would you give him? Because he is mūḍha. So the father is intelligent—"No." So similarly, the mūḍhas may demand that "Open this hospital." But we are not going to do that. We know.... Of course, hospital required so far the body is concerned, but there are so many hospitals. The real hospital which is not existing, we are starting. That is our mission, which is not possible for the so-called leaders and politicians. Try to clear this.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Indian man: Balarāma and Subhadrā month, is that on the same, the next month, He came?

Prabhupāda: He came one sūrya-grahaṇa occasion. (break) ...in America. That is better than calling a government. What is the government? I don't care for them, these politicians. In America I never attempted to see the politicians, secretary and... Never attempted. I was sitting down under the tree and playing my dundubhi.

Dayānanda: Yes. For one year the Marquis of Zetland was interested, and then what is the use? After that, then finished.

Prabhupāda: Finished.

Dayānanda: Just five hundred pounds spent in two years, and then nothing.

Prabhupāda: Then nothing.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: All over India. Like Madana already got three devotees when I was there in one week. By now he may also have more. Bengalis like kīrtana very much. (break) ...devotees are Bengalis.

Prabhupāda: ...ago Bengali culture was very much adored all over India. Even one big politician, Gandhi's guru, Goke, Gokule, he remarked, "What Bengal thinks today, other provinces will think tomorrow." He said like that. And actually all big, big movements started from Bengal. The national movement also was started from Bengal. Whatever we may criticize Vivekananda, when... He's a Bengali. He went first for preaching Indian religion. Rabindranath Tagore, he's a Bengali. All big, big...

Jayapatākā: Aurobindo.

Prabhupāda: Aurobindo is a Bengali.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: If you follow Bhagavad-gītā, then everything will be followed very nicely. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). And go-rakṣya, this is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā. So if you follow Bhagavad-gītā, then naturally go-rakṣya will be there. And if you read Bhagavad-gītā for some political reason, then slaughterhouse go on. That's all. Instead of go-rakṣya, go-killing. This is going on. Every politician is reading Bhagavad-gītā, but go-rakṣya... Instead of go-rakṣya, go-hatya. This is going on, no go-rakṣya but go-hatya. This is going on. Who cares for Kṛṣṇa? This is the misfortune of India. Kṛṣṇa spoke in India, in Kurukṣetra. Kṛṣṇa appeared in India, but Indian people are neglecting. Therefore I say it is a misfortune. It is your own thing. You are neglecting it.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, we have no business. We don't wish to waste our time.

Mr. Dixon: Do you read newspapers?

Prabhupāda: No. What is newspaper? "This man is killed. This man has stolen. This politician has captured the government." So why shall I waste time?

Mr. Dixon: How do you become informed as to certain events? Is that...

Prabhupāda: We have got enough books to read, these books. If you read our books, in your whole lifetime you cannot finish it. And that is required to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is success of life. So why should.... Of course, we are in touch in the newspaper, but as much as it is required. We are in touch with the material world as much as it is required. We are interested in Kṛṣṇa. To help our Kṛṣṇa consciousness we may be in touch with the material world as much as possible. Just like we are riding car also, we are also using dictaphone, everything, but it is not for any ulterior purpose. It is for Kṛṣṇa's service. Just like we are writing books. This is Kṛṣṇa's service. People may understand about Kṛṣṇa, be benefited. This is our.... And in that way we are printing books, we are selling books, we are writing books.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

rabhupāda: Otherwise where is the difficulty? Just like the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre
samavetā yuyutsavaḥ
māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva
kim akurvata sañjaya
(BG 1.1)

The beginning of Bhagavad-gītā is the battlefield, and the battlefield is called Kurukṣetra. So Kurukṣetra is still there in India, but these so-called learned scholars, politicians, they're squeezing out some meaning out of Kurukṣetra. What is the necessity? Kurukṣetra is a place where actually, historically the battle took place.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, mother it is. Mother means who begets, who gives birth. You practically see, grass to the highest form of life, they are coming from earth, living at the cost of the earth. The earth is supplying food, food grains, vegetables. So mother..., as child is growing by sucking the mother's breast, so we are living at the cost of mother. She is giving us milk, she is giving us everything. That is mother. And śāstra, the earth is considered mother. Ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhmaṇī... but they have no knowledge. Mother means who creates my body, who gives me feeding in the beginning, gives me strength. That is mother. How you can understand mother otherwise? So mother is there, earth. Dhenur dhātrī tathā pṛthvī. Pṛthvī is mother. And practically we see. She is giving, the mother earth is giving birth to so many varieties of children-8,400,000. Then the next inquiry should be: the mother is there, the children are there, then where is the father? That answer is given by Kṛṣṇa: ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4), "I am the father." So where is the difficulty to understand the Supreme Lord? But they are so dull-headed that they have no even common sense, and they're passing as philosopher, politician, and scientist, big leader, big rascal. This is going on. This is going on. And big, big rascals, they have taken the leadership of the world, and the world is in chaos, chaotic condition, everyone is unhappy, suffering.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: My father, he's the president of this liquor company, and they study the charts to see who is drinking the most. And they have discovered that the biggest drinkers in the world are the politicians in Washington, D.C., that they drink more liquor than anyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got so many anxieties. So many anxieties.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: And how can they manage nicely when they are always intoxicated?

Hari-śauri: When we were running our political format in Melbourne—one of the boys was going for some positioning in the state—he was quoted in the newspapers. They picked it out as the quote of the week, because they asked him, they said, "What would be the first thing, if you are elected, you will do?" So he said, "I would abolish the bar in the House of Parliament." So they said, "Oh, why would you do that?" He said "How can you rule a country when you're intoxicated all the time?" So they picked it out and put it in the newspapers as the quote of the week.

Prabhupāda: Who said?

Hari-śauri: In Melbourne, in one of the papers.

Prabhupāda: Our man said?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Very good argument, that these drunkards, rascals, how you can rule over the country? You are always intoxicated.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: And then we can give alternatives.

Mādhavānanda: In a recent issue of Newsweek magazine, there was a very large article about Washington, D.C. politicians-congressmen and senators being exposed by the press for going out with prostitutes and taking money and misspending. Big expose, scandal.

Prabhupāda: What is that sound? Airplane?

Mādhavānanda: There is a very large factory over there. You can see the smokestacks. What is it? What kind of factory? Electrical company.

Prabhupāda: We have got open place, but not very pleasant. You cannot sit down for a long time. The wind is cold.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the solution. Therefore our only business should be to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of life. That makes the solution-tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Our propaganda is how to understand Kṛṣṇa. And this yoga, Kṛṣṇa consciousness yoga, simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is explained.

mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
(BG 7.1)

Without any doubt. And if you, asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ mām, if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). We are therefore requesting everyone, study Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Don't interpret. Don't screw out your concocted meaning. Then your life is successful. Every politician, every scholar, everyone is trying to screw out some meaning. That is the disease. But we say, we are begging people, that "You read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is and try to understand it." Very simple thing. We haven't got to become very learned scholars. Our business is to go to you and request you, "Please read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Don't try to interpret it." That is our preaching. Very simple. Because Bhagavad-gītā, the instruction is there, and we haven't got to manufacture anything. So as a peon, we carry only: "You please read it as it is." Or you try to explain as it is. And where is the explanation? Everything is clear.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Simple thing. And then live comfortably, eat comfortably, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Comfortably does not mean satisfaction of the senses. Comfortably means we require primary necessities, to eat something, to sleep somewhere or have some sex—this is also bodily need—and to defend, that's all. These are the primary necessities. That can be arranged anywhere. God has given all facilities. Grow your own food, eat, and live anywhere. Just this place was rough like that, now it is handled nicely, it is very attractive. (Bengali) Any damn place, you cleanse it, it becomes home. And any nasty man, you decorate him, he becomes a bridegroom. (laughs) (Bengali) (japa) Let Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement give this sense to these rascals. They do not know how to adjust things. They simply plan their United Nations, but they do not know what is that plan. Yes. United Nations. First of all why nation? Why manufacture nation and create trouble and again ununited? Nation—this word is not there in the Vedic language. There's no conception of nation. There is conception of varṇāśrama, everywhere. Not for any particular nation or any particular country, but everyone, according to quality-first-class men, second-class men, third-class men. That is there everywhere. Everywhere you go, you find some people first-class intelligent, some people less than him, some people less than him, up to fourth class, that's all. And then fifth class. So everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Now you try to implement. Perfect human life. Let any sociologist, politician come forward. We shall convince them that this is only way. Why you are wasting time and barking dog in the United Nations for the last forty years and doing nothing? What I said, barking dogs? You have read it? I accused them as barking dogs, Melbourne, and they published in the paper. Actually, this is the fact.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: We got it in Hawaii. Yes, it was for that Habitat conference.

Prabhupāda: So we are not politicians, but we give some idea. Is it not good?

Kīrtanānanda: We have political philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is our movement: Take instruction of God, follow it, and you'll be happy. What is this?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is the end of that article, then the magazine goes on.

Prabhupāda: They have not replied even. (break) "Simple Living, High Thinking." "Then and Now: the Right to Distribute the American Dream." Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So instead of giving books to the members, they can read the books in the magazines. One magazine should be given free always to the members.

Kīrtanānanda: Life members.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not books. "ISKCON-Ten Years of Spreading Kṛṣṇa Consciousness."

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The purport is that in the Kali-yuga, the government men, they will be all rogues and thieves. So the citizens also follow them. Tan-nethe, śīlācārya. Śīlācārya is their behavior. The politicians, secretaries and big, big officers going to the brothels and drinking wine and enjoying, then what others will not? They will... Go on, second chapter.

Pradyumna:

tataś cānu-dinaṁ dharmaḥ
satyaṁ śaucaṁ kṣamā dayā
kālena balinā rājan
naṅkṣyaty āyur balaṁ smṛtiḥ

Prabhupāda: Note?

Pradyumna: Kali-dharmān prapañcayati-tataś cetyādinā.

Prabhupāda: That's all?

Pradyumna: Yes. He doesn't say.

Prabhupāda: How things will deteriorate, that is explained here. Tataś cānu-dinam?

Pradyumna: Dharmaḥ satyaṁ śaucam...

Prabhupāda: With the progress of the Kali-yuga... The Kali-yuga has begun after the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. So five thousand years ago. The whole duration of life of Kali-yuga is thirty-two hundred thousands of years. Thirty-two hundred thousands of years, out of which we have passed only five thousand years. Still, the balance is twenty-seven hundred thousands of years. So with the progress of this age, these things will happen. What is that? Tataś cānu-dinam?

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you have called the politicians representative of Hiraṇyakaśipu, they are trying to become immortal. Just like devotees, but without...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this... There are two kinds of men already described, daiva asura eva ca. These two kinds of activities will go on. This is material world. You cannot find out cent percent perfect man. That is not possible. There are a class of men, imperfect, will be there. But it is being described who is imperfect and who is perfect. That you have to select. You cannot clear this material world of imperfect persons. That is not possible. There will be remain, but you must know who is perfect and who is imperfect. And make your choice, whether you want to remain imperfect or want to make progress to become perfect. That is up to you.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they support this accident theory. Nowadays they have got the accident theory. Because ordinarily there is no good. There is no possibility. But by accident if some good comes, that's all. Otherwise, jagato 'hitāḥ, it is only fault. They are... But accidentally means good comes. Accidentally, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement came. (laughs) Although it was going on in India. Nobody called Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the scientists, the philosophers, the politicians. But accidentally came. Accidentally, we got result. You cannot explain God, therefore you take it as accident.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is very interesting, very interesting. In a Vedic community everything is very ordered, and goodness prevails, therefore God consciousness seems very natural.

Prabhupāda: Go on.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Mafia?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Mafia, organized criminals, organized like businessmen. They are controlling the politicians by money. But although they are exposing, still it goes on. It is worse than ever.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Explain further.

Hari-śauri: The Mafia is an organization that was originally coming from Sicily. They were an organized group of men that would control all the politics in the area by manipulation of money and businessmen.

Devotee (1): And violence.

Hari-śauri: And violence. So many things they'd do. They used to organize all the heroin that comes into the country, like this, for revenue, to get revenue, money. So many things. And places like Las Vegas, which is a big gambling city, that is also run by the Mafia. They control all the casinos and they control the police, they pay everyone off, like that, and if they don't agree, they kill them. So like this, their influence is spread everywhere, any illegal things that are going on.

Prabhupāda: Terrorism.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. For nothing. And it is sure certainly you can write down, their Mars going also will be failure. Let it, you take in writing. I may die. I am old man. Take it down. It will be failure. I told ten years before that "It is childish." One press reporter inquired in San Francisco, what is your... "No, this is childish, wasting money." The reporter came to see me in Los Angeles. He remembered that. If you want to spend for nothing like that, you can do that. You have got money.

Brahmatīrtha: If you say to a politician, "Give Śrīla Prabhupāda money..." Like I said to one man running for governor of this state, I said, "Why can't you help the community in New Vrindaban?"

Prabhupāda: Oh, you said?

Brahmatīrtha: He cited to me so many rules and regulations. They're not interested. They're interested in pleasing themselves. A man runs for government, his whole position to run for governor is to please himself so that he can become rich.

Prabhupāda: That's it. Here, you are right. Sense gratification. Nobody wants to do anything. Nixon captured the presidential post for his own satisfaction. And when the people found that "Here is a trick," they agitated and got him down. So this is the difficulty, that andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās the 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). We are blind and we are being guided by blind men. So the result is catastrophe.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is different question. But they did not go to the moon planet.

Vipina: In the Bhāgavatam you also explain that the moon is about 1,600,000 miles away, so they couldn't have gone. It's beyond the sun, you said, Prabhupāda? (break)

Devotee (2): ...rectifying the senators and congressmen, is there much hope in talking to them?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The politicians in Washington. He would like to know if it's worthwhile talking to them, preaching to them.

Devotee (3): Much hope talking to people like that?

Prabhupāda: He wants to talk?

Devotee (3): Yes, I want to talk to them.

Prabhupāda: No, no. He wants to talk or you want to talk?

Devotee (2): I want to talk to them.

Prabhupāda: No.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Therefore mūḍha, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. We should not remain a mūḍha; we should be intelligent to understand Kṛṣṇa. And that is possible only through bhakti. Kṛṣṇa specifically mentions, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). He never says, "By jñāna, yoga, karma, one can understand Me." No. Bhakti. Bhakto si, "You will understand, Arjuna, because you are My bhakta." That is first qualification to understand Kṛṣṇa. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena (BG 4.34). A bhakta is submissive. And nondevotees, they are not submissive. They are so proud that they say "I am Bhagavān, I am God." So that attitude will not help to understand. (Prabhupāda converses in Hindi with an Indian lady about how one does not have to renounce family life to understand Kṛṣṇa.) He says paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). He understands perfectly. There is no question of gṛhastha or sannyāsī. It is a question of understanding. And Arjuna is gṛhastha, politician, fighter, and still he is selected to understand Bhagavad-gītā. So gṛhastha. (Hindi) ...in gṛhastha life or sannyāsī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says like that, kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya. (Hindi) I shall speak in English so that others.... Kibā vipra, whether one is a brāhmaṇa, kibā śūdra, or whether he is a śūdra, nyāsī kene naya, or whether he is a sannyāsī. That means whether he is a gṛhastha or brāhmaṇa, or.... There are eight varṇāśrama—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, whatever he may be, out of these eight categories.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They should be trained up. Therefore Vedic civilization is training. Some section of the people, they should be very intellectuals, brain, just like to maintain this body we require first of all the brain. If the brain is not order, then other parts, they may be there, but they are also useless. So similarly, in the society, some intellectuals should be maintained. They are called brāhmaṇas, and some of the brāhmaṇas, they are sannyāsīs. They are simply meant for giving good instruction. They should personally become very good and intellectual, and they should give instruction to other people what is the value of life, how to live. This is one section. They should be free from the anxiety of maintaining themselves. The society should treat them as children and give them all necessities, bare necessities, not they are meant for living very luxuriously. No. Simple living. Then the next class, kṣatriyas, the politicians, administrators, they are also required to give protection to the people from injury. Kṣatriya, kṣat means injury, and trāyate, "one who saves people from injury." It is kṣatriya's duty. So kṣatriya should protect all the living entities, including the animals. They are also subjects. So the first, intellectual brāhmaṇas, then kṣatriya. Then vaiśyas, their business is to produce food. Food production you can do by agriculture, kṛṣi, and by giving protection to the cows. If you get sufficient food grains, like rice, wheat, pulses, and sufficient milk—from milk you get yogurt, butter, ghee—then your all food problem is solved.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There is no fundamental difference. The same. Bhagavad-gītā recommends that you should select a very secluded place in a solitary sacred place, you should make your āsana, sit down perpendicularly, don't close your eyes completely, half open, and concentrate on the tip of the nose. Everything is there. "And then think of Me." But Arjuna said, he said, "Oh, it is not possible." He was a frank gentleman. He was not a hypocrite. He said that "You are recommending all these yoga practice, it is not possible for me. I am a politician, I have to execute so many other businesses. I cannot go to the secluded place and sit down like this. So you are recommending me for yoga practice, but I say I cannot." But at the present moment, they have become more than Arjuna. (laughs) What Arjuna denied, they want to practice. This is another hypocrisy. Arjuna was not an ordinary man. He was so exalted that he could speak with Kṛṣṇa directly, and coming from royal family, and he's famous as great fighter. He refused, "I cannot do that." And we are taking to yoga practice. We have become more than Arjuna. This is going on. He does not think himself that "Arjuna is such a great personality, he thought himself to be incapable to practicing yoga, and we are making a show of yoga, paying somebody large amounts of money"? That's all. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: ...to keep their service in order. This is going on, all cheating. To keep people in darkness and exploit them. The so-called swamis exploiting, yogis exploiting, politician exploiting, scientists exploiting, philosophers exploiting. What is the position of the world? And this is the opportunity, human life, to know everything, to solve all the problems. They are not given the opportunity, they are kept in darkness. The demons. "There is no God, science is everything, life is produced from chemicals, and there is no living entities on other planets." They are simply show. This planet is full of..., it is all scientists, and they are vacant. And we have to believe that. Perhaps for the first time I am raising protest against all this nonsense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is such a challenge. Your statements are such a challenge to their so-called science that they're still in shock. I still think that they do not take us seriously yet because it's such a difference to what they are saying. Soon, gradually, they'll take...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have engaged these scientists. They are going to publish one paper.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: He hates the Communists. He hates them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why the American government likes him. A lot of big politicians in America are backing him because he's anti-Communist and he's a big man in Korea.

Prabhupāda: So he's already a big man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he's an industrialist.

Rāmeśvara: He became famous during the Korean war with the Chinese. He fought against the Chinese, and then he became very wealthy. As a result of that war he became very wealthy. He was selling ammunition.

Prabhupāda: America was in favor of Korea?

Rāmeśvara: They were trying to prevent the Chinese from conquering.

Prabhupāda: During Truman's?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Comments on Bhagavad-gita Play -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The whole basic principle is this, that people should understand, as I was explaining this morning, the sat and asat. So at the present moment we are living in the way that is asat. But there is another life, sat. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to raise a person from the asat platform to the sat. Under illusion they are, what is called, amock? They (laughs) have gone amock. So it is a humble attempt to stop their, this suicidal policy. They are practically committing suicide. They do not know what is the value of life and how they are spoiling it, this valuable life. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are trying to adjust things by the arrangement of external energy. That is not possible. Whatever adjustment they are making, so many big, big leaders, politicians, they came. Napoleon, Hitler, Gandhi, this, that, by the waves of material nature everything is driven away. In that way there is no possibility of adjustment. It is not... Kathacaturamanam mali mali javanam(?) How many, caturānana. Caturānana means Brahmā. They come and go, come and go. And there is no permanent life, it is all asat. So they should come to the sat platform, that is perfect. The more you remain strong in your spiritual life, then more it will be impressed, it will act. And if it actually is not spiritual life but theatrical performance, then it will not help.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: I do not know, but our principle is that I vote for this man or that man, so what is spiritual benefit, that is our point.

Bali-mardana: If he was Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he might vote. If the politician is God conscious, then we'll support him.

Interviewer: Vote for this man or that, what spiritual difference would it make, is that the way you put that?

Bali-mardana: Yes, as long as the candidate is not God conscious it wouldn't make any difference which way we vote, but if he's God conscious, then we'll vote.

Interviewer: Well, would he have to be in the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement to be God conscious?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bali-mardana: Would the candidate, in order for a candidate to be God conscious, would he have to be part of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Prabhupāda: He must know the science, this science, this spiritual science.

Conversation After Interview with Religious Editor, Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the karmīs. Even the Orissa politicians, they accused Caitanya Mahāprabhu, because the Orissa politician, it is a fact the Mahārāja Pratāparudra, the King of Orissa during the time of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he was politically very strong. At that time the Muhammadans were conquering different parts of India, but they could not enter Orissa or the southern India. They were very strong. So this Mahārāja Pratāparudra politically was very strong. So the modern politicians of Orissa, they accuse Caitanya Mahāprabhu that, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to Orissa and Mahārāja Pratāparudra became influenced by Him, Orissa fell down. They accuse sometimes that Orissa's political position became weakened on account of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's influence on Mahārāja Pratāparudra. They say. The modern politicians of Orissa, they also do not like Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Gandhiji has preached or Dr. Radhakrishna has written, but who has preached that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is to be worshiped? Just like we are preaching. Here in America, you have seen our temple? How they are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. So Bhagavad-gītā, main purpose is that. Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So who has preached this? So, although they came, so many swamis, yogis, and politicians, they came, but they talked, what can I say? All irrelevant. Nobody spoke that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You worship Him." Nobody has said. This is the first time, I am saying. Do you agree or not?

Interviewer: Yes. Do you think that this is because of the Western influence under which they have gone and you are...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, they wanted to compromise with the Westerners. They did not come to teach, but they wanted to be victimized by the Western people. They had no strength to save themselves. They have no strength. They have no determination. Hodgepodge, that's all. Therefore it was not successful. Not a single man became Kṛṣṇa conscious. Even nowadays. Now Vivekananda is famous in India that "He preached in America, all Americans have become Vedantists," something like that. Now, practically, you have gone in Vṛndāvana?

Interviewer: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is not their fault. Even the big, big leaders of India, even Gandhi, they do not know actually. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. The Bhagavad-gītā has been misinterpreted, misused by the leaders, by the politicians, by the so-called philosophers. Everyone has misused.

Indian man: I'll tell you one thing, that Swami Chinmayananda...

Prabhupāda: He's a great...

Indian man: He's great, but I'll tell you what happened.

Prabhupāda: "Great" means great fool.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Sense gratification.

Devotees: Sense gratification, pleasing the senses.

Mike Robinson: Oh, thank you.

Prabhupāda: That is the.... The microphone is the same. And the politician can speak all nonsense, and the so-called scientist may speak all nonsense of going to the Mars planet, but we don't talk all nonsense.

Mike Robinson: If we could just put one more tape on it. No, if I can explain to you, the question I am trying to ask, which I'm finding difficulty to explain. Obviously, the members of the movement who are here have made a definite sort of decision that you've decided, they've decided, for instance, to dress differently, and they're dressing now in what would appear to be an Indian style. Is it necessary to do that, or could I carry on being a member of a radio station and still be a member of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Don't say "no." But give a taste for the good, then it will be automatically "no." And if you say "no" then he'll, they will rebel. The four "no's," that is very difficult. Still they are breaking. No illicit sex, they are breaking. But if they develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this will be automatically "no." So don't bring many "no's," but give them positive life. Then it will be automatically "no." And if you say "no," that will be a struggle. This is the psychology. Positive engagement is devotional service. So if they are attracted by devotional service, other things will be automatically "no." Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. Just like Ekādaśī day. Ekādaśī day, we observe fasting. And there are many patients in the hospital, they are also fasting. But they'll "No, no." They'll, within heart, "If I get, I shall eat, I shall eat." But those who are devotee, they voluntarily "no." The same fasting is going on for the devotees and the hospital patient. And that "no" and this "no," there is difference. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). It is not meant for the mass of people, but at least if we keep a section of people ideal to the human society, they will be guided. At the present moment, there is no ideal section. Everyone is rascal, demons, rogues, everything. There is no ideal character. All politicians, scientists, leaders, they are all drunkards and woman-hunters. So what they can lead? There is no ideal man in the society. The politicians are giving big, big speech in the United Nations. They'll go to the same hotel where another debauchee is dancing and drinking. That's all. That is his character. Is it not? So what he will do? We can give a very big speech, that's all. What is his character? There is no ideal character in the present human society. Do they appreciate our, these restrictions?

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Just see how rascal they are. My Guru Mahārāja every step condemned this Ramakrishna Mission and Vivekananda. He said frankly that if there are any impediments for our movement, that is this Gandhi and Vivekananda. He said frankly. Hodge-podge. Gandhi's also hodge-podge. He was a politician, and in politics he mixed some spiritual ideas, hodge-podge. And this Vivekananda was also politician. His name was recorded in the government as "sannyāsī-politician." Because after returning from America, he began to preach to make the poor man rich, and these weak, fatty, and so on, exercise. So the government took it that he's, under the dress of a sannyāsī, he's preaching social and political upliftment. So his name was recorded as "sannyāsī-politician." And his name was also recorded, "political saint," Gandhi. After all, the British government, they were very intelligent. They could understand what is what. Otherwise, how they were managing this big empire? Very intelligent, there is no doubt about it. And actually they were intelligent. When they were managing, we were happy, actually. Nobody can deny it. Although they were exploiting. But nobody could understand. Everyone was feeling happy. And as soon as they left, everyone is unhappy. That distinction I can give evidence, I can, from my personal experience. Things were very, very nice. Calcutta, oh, it was so nice city. Now it is hell. It is same Calcutta. Why it is now hell? Hidden(?) garden, that was a nice garden. So... Everywhere hell, only hell. Calcutta was considered the nicest city in India, better than Bombay, but it has become now hell. The streets, especially those quarters in our temple.

Room Conversation -- August 4, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: If I cheat somebody and get some money, you are very expert.

Hari-śauri: Top-class businessman.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: First-class scientist. And the best politician. Just like in America, once they'd found Nixon was cheating, now they're investigating one man after another, and every one, they're finding all the same.

Prabhupāda: America, cheating is a policy. How a real estate man, lawyer, they're simply planning how to cheat.

Hari-śauri: The lawyers are the worst because they know the law. So they know how to cheat in such a way that they can stay within the law. They said Ambarīṣa's lawyer cheated us out of so many things when we got that Detroit property. (end)

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: In the material world there cannot be any peace, justice, morality. It is not possible. You may try to make some adjustment, but it will never be possible. So, by their concocted imagination, they are thinking, "This way will be beneficial," but unless they come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of peace, prosperity, justice. It is not possible.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param
(BG 18.54)

Unless we come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of justice, morality, peace. It is not possible. They may attempt in different ways, by their mental speculative process, but actually it will never come to be true. They are all trying: the scientists, philosophers, politicians, religionists, to make some adjustment, but that is not possible. We must understand the material platform. It is threefold miserable conditions. Just like we are trying to avoid some miserable condition, very insignificant—to get out of the disturbance created by the mosquitoes and the flies. We are trying our best, but still they are disturbing. Is it not? Still they find out some loopholes and go in to the room and disturb you. So you cannot avoid. Similarly, the disturbances of nature: the severe cold, scorching heat, how you can counteract it? Is it possible? Not possible.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So what is the position then? They are in ignorance, and they are leading the society as scientist, philosopher, politician. That is misleading. They cannot go even freely in the so-called moon planet excursion or Mars. Still, they are declaring independence. What is their independence?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Rascal.

Nandarāṇī: If someone accepts his dependence on God, then what is the second step? In preaching, so someone has accepted, "Yes, we are dependent on God," but actually they have no knowledge who God is.

Prabhupāda: Give them knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā. If you accept dependence on God, then you take instruction from God, how you'll be happy. Just like a child. The child knows he's fully dependent on parents. So he's fully obeying the orders of the parents, then he's happy, naturally. The father, mother, knows how to take care of the child and they're happy. And by nature they're dependent on father and mother. So they are happy. Mother says, "My dear child, sit down." He will sit down. By nature.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Eh? No difficulty. If you chant Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty? That is mana-manā. Apply your mind to Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? The difficulty is that we'll not do it. That is our determination. We shall do everything, but not this. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. Everyone will teach about Bhagavad-gītā, so many things they will speak, but nobody speaks that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Rather, they will say Kṛṣṇa is fictitious, there was no Kṛṣṇa, there was no... They mislead, that's all. And he becomes a big scholar. The more he deviates you, misguides you, he become a big scholar. This is going on. Is it not? There are so many scholars, politicians, philosophers, they are talking of Bhagavad-gītā. Nobody is talking that Kṛṣṇa, surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Am I right or wrong? They'll say "We have got different meaning of Kṛṣṇa" All the sages, all the saintly persons, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna, when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he immediately accepted Kṛṣṇa: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). This is understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). "Keśava, whatever You have spoken, I take it altogether as it is." Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). All fact. And they are manufacturing some meaning. How they'll understand Kṛṣṇa? This is going on. And our, this movement has become little successful.... People give me such credit, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful." But I do not know what wonderful. I do not know any magic. I simply say that you accept Kṛṣṇa or Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That's all.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So how we are independent? Did Mr. Freud not die? When prakṛti, nature, kicked on his face, he immediately died. So how he's independent? These rascals have created all troubles. The so-called rascal philosophers, scientists, politicians, they have created all troubles. He's completely dependent on nature, on the laws of nature, and still he says, "I am independent. I have grown up." What you have grown up? You have grown up as a great fool, that's all. You have not grown up to be intelligent. You have grown up a great rascal, that's all. So refute them in this way, then you'll be preacher. So what is your argument about humanity?

Dayānanda: Well, if God is, as you say...

Prabhupāda: God is the father.

Dayānanda: If God is meant to be propitiated, then why is it that we have so many things for our enjoyment? You say that everything is for God's enjoyment.

Prabhupāda: Yes, God has given you enjoyment, but you cannot enjoy yourself, alone. There are other sons, they will also enjoy. If you interfere with other sons, then you'll be punished. God's son is the lamb, and you let him enjoy, you also enjoy. But if you interfere with his right, then you'll be punished. That is God's law. Sarva-yoniṣu, God is not only your father, he's father of the lamb also. So if by your brute force you want to kill the poor lamb, then you'll be punished. This is natural. You have got your food, you produce your foodgrain and you eat. Why should you eat another animal? God says that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14), you must eat to become strong. But that does not mean you'll eat another brother. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1), whatever He has designated, you eat like that. You are human being, you can produce food. You grow foodstuffs, rice, wheat, fruit, flowers, vegetables. That is allowed. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni, you produce anna, why should you kill an animal? And offer it to Kṛṣṇa, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). He never says that "You give Me an animal." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. So you produce patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam, and offer to Kṛṣṇa, and then take.

Arrival Conversation -- August 13, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All people are responding all over the world. They... Money, men, strength, everything they are supplying. But we are not getting very good encouragement from India. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that every Indian should become guru and preach the instruction of Kṛṣṇa.

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
(CC Madhya 7.128)

This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... And people are hankering after receiving this instruction. Unfortunately, the so-called swamis, yogis, they are going... Or even politicians, they are not presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Anyway, so long I live I shall go on struggling like this. That's all.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Indian doctor: Each man understands according to his own level of understanding.

Prabhupāda: No. Suppose, just like you are medical man, you are giving somebody medicine, you are giving the direction. If he wants to be cured, he must take your direction. Not that somebody comes, "No, no, you can take it this way, you can do this." That is nonsense. That is nonsense. This nonsense we want to stop. Kṛṣṇa is giving the instruction, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12), the Supreme Personality of Godhead. What business you have got to poke your nose and give interpretation? Are you bigger than Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa left it for you? This nonsense going on. Big, big swamis, big, big yogis, big, big politicians, simply misinterpreting, he's spoiling his own life and he's spoiling others. Bas. This is going on. Very serious condition.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya, "Whatever nonsense you have learned-forget." Then what to do? Kāku-śataṁ bravīmi sakalam eva vihāya dūrād gaurāṅga-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. "You just become devotee of Lord Caitanya. I am flattering you, I am falling down on your feet"—this is preaching. And what is Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). And if you do that, then what is the result? Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). If one is doing like that, Kṛṣṇa immediately recognizes, "Oh, you are the best friend of Mine." So if you are recognized by Kṛṣṇa, then what you want more? You are undergoing so much austerities and... To be recognized by God. And God says that "Immediately I recognize you." Whom? One who is doing this. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). Immediately. You may be a fool, you may be rascal, you may be illiterate. But if you do this, immediately Kṛṣṇa recognizes. Kṛṣṇa never said that unless one is a big grammarian, big scientist, big politician, big engineer, big doctor, then I can do it. No. Simply one who does this. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyam (Bg 18.68). What is that paramaṁ guhyam? Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Give up all nonsense. Surrender to Me." This is paramaṁ guhyam. And they are simply manufacturing nonsense. So the time is very bad, but nature's law is very strict.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is the most important part. If you do not know what you are, then you are talking like a nonsense. If you have lost your identity, then what is your education?

Interviewer (4): No, but we should realize the politicians...

Prabhupāda: It is not a question of politician or economics. It is general education, that you must know your identity, what you are. Then knowledge...

Interviewer (4): I am living under the system, and that system is...

Prabhupāda: But if the system is wrong, then you are living wrongly. You are misled.

Interviewer (4): That means the movement should make an attack on the politicians, people who make the decisions.

Prabhupāda: No. Politician, of course, it is, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). This system, this science, was understood by the rājarṣi, kings who were as good as ṛṣis, rājarṣis. So where is that politician, politician as good as a ṛṣi? That is the difficulty. It is meant for rājarṣi. Rāja and ṛṣi. Just like Janaka Mahārāja, Parīkṣit Mahārāja, Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, Prahlāda Mahārāja, they were kings, but they were at the same time so great and saintly, they were called rājarṣi, and this is a subject matter for the rājarṣis.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Ah, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). So where is rājarṣi? That is the difficulty. Where is that brāhmaṇa, where is that kṣatriya, where is that system? Now anyone can capture the political power by hook and crook, that is another thing. But it is meant for the rājarṣi, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Where is their training? The politician, where he is trained up as ṛṣi? There is no such service.

Interviewer (4): Has there been any official opposition to your movement in any country?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Interviewer (3): Your movement is spreading largely. Do you think that it will be welcome in the Communist countries?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have been in Moscow. I saw many learned professors. We are selling our books there.

Interviewer (3): You are selling your books in Moscow?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Everyone, every intelligent man will accept. We are selling books in East Germany, which is Communist. They are taking our books.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: I was explaining, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). If the big big politicians, head of the state, they understand, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21), others will follow.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And this body is... Either dead or alive, Bhagavad-gītā condemns, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). So these rascals are interested with this body, and they're proud of their advancement of education. Bhagavad-gītā says nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are passing as great scientists, philosophers, politicians, philanthropists, but all apaṇḍitāḥ. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. That means apaṇḍita. (Bengali) The first thing of Bhagavad-gītā lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "Talking like a learned man, but you are rascal." Apaṇḍitaḥ. One who is not educated, he's a rascal. So He's indirectly saying, "This kind of lamentation is not for the paṇḍita. It is for the rascal." So whole world is interested with this body, and Bhagavad-gītā's teaching begins condemning the concept of body. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody knows this. And they are very learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. All these rascals, they're claiming to be learned scholar of Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: He is very expert man.

Jayapatākā: He's a very expert... He's one of their chief politicians from India. He used to be Education Minister of Indira Gandhi. He's one of her right hand men.

Gargamuni: Very important for Bengal. Bengal is the most important state, and he has very prominent position to the Prime Minister as advisor.

Jayapatākā: So at that time, I couldn't write him a letter. He had written that..., something which made Mr. Choudhuri very angry. He wrote something which made Mr. Choudhuri very angry. Made also the Chief Secretary angry. He wrote...

Gargamuni: No, who wrote?

Jayapatākā: The Chief Minister wrote. He said, "Because of the impassioned... He said "I would have refused this application except for the impassioned appeal of one of my senior officers, namely Mr. Choudhuri. They are asking for three hundred acres of land but the East India Company, they asked only twenty acres of land and they have conquered the whole of India." (loud kīrtana in background)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayapatākā: "East India Company, they have asked only twenty acres of land but they have conquered the whole of India.

Gargamuni: "They ruled India for two hundred years."

Jayapatākā: Oh. "Ruled India for two hundred years."

Prabhupāda: Who said? Chief Minister?

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Who said? Chief Minister?

Gargamuni: The Chief Minister wrote that the East India Company purchased twenty acres of land and rules India for two hundred years. That was his reply to our application.

Prabhupāda: Chief Minister said?

Gargamuni: Yes. They're afraid that by taking this, we will rule India.

Jayapatākā: Anyway, that's a very frivolous statement. That was a frivolous statement.

Prabhupāda: No, that, ruling over India, they politically ruled.

Jayapatākā: But we're not politicians.

Prabhupāda: Even if we are rule, we shall rule spiritually. We have nothing to do with politics.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Do you think it is?

Jayapatākā: No, it's not necessary to personally see him. You might write... When you come to Māyāpur we'll write him invitation that he can come and see and visit you there. That was better. Mr. Choudhuri said that "Your Guru Mahārāja, he has got also the Vaiṣṇava pride not to see the politicians." He said, "This is a good stand. I respect this very much." Actually he mentioned once to Abhirāma confidentially that "If this project comes through, then you'll be requiring some liaison officer because there will be so many government things. At that time I can work for you as your permanent advisor and go to Delhi and here and there and do all the work." I think he wants a job.

Prabhupāda: I thought Mr. Choudhuri would do everything, but that is not the position.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. Very difficult. You see. Big, big scholars, big, big politicians, they are supposed to be preaching Bhagavad-gītā. They take their photograph in front of Bhagavad-gītā, but without Kṛṣṇa. They'll never talk of Kṛṣṇa any time. Banish Kṛṣṇa. Even Gandhi has said, "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." Perhaps you have read in his Gītā-Press edition.(?) Kṛṣṇa is speaking... Radhakrishnan said when Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, he says "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad bhaktaḥ, and he says it is not to the Kṛṣṇa person. Just see how misleading it is. And if a person like Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi, misleads, then who will hear me? What I am? There is one big person in Bombay, he said that he has set aside ten lakhs of rupees for Gītā-pracāra. But when I proposed Gītā-pracāra means Kṛṣṇa pracāra, so he said, "No, I want Gītā without Kṛṣṇa."

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Minister: They have said so many things in the name of śāstra. They have said so many things in the name of śāstra. That you are making it one is very good.

Prabhupāda: No, those who are approved śāstra is accepted by the ācāryas. Śāstra, which is accepted by the ācārya, that is śāstra. You cannot make. As you cannot manufacture religion, you cannot manufacture śāstras. Approved by the ācāryas. Ācāryopāsanam. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says also that you should know from the ācārya. Everyone. They are preaching Bhagavad-gītā with the purpose of killing Kṛṣṇa. Everyone. The politicians, the scholars, the rascals, and everyone. The main purpose is how to kill Kṛṣṇa. In Bombay I have got a very big friend, you know him. I do not wish to disclose his name. He has set aside ten lakhs of rupees for preaching Gītā. But he wants Gītā without Kṛṣṇa. Rāma without Sītā. Rāvaṇa's policy. Take away Sītā. Rāma will remain alone. So take away Gītā and cut Kṛṣṇa. But I cannot make any compromise I shall... My life is ended, now eighty-one. I do not... But so long I shall live I shall make no compromise, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Dṛḍha-vrata. And that is a fact. Why shall I mislead people? They are searching after God, what is God. Here is God. Why don't you take it. See His activities. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ. Tally with the formula of God, you see Kṛṣṇa is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. So whatever teeny effort I have got, I shall try to establish temples of Kṛṣṇa all over the world with my teeny income. I have got book sales. Kṛṣṇa has given me very good chance. It is beyond any dream. We are selling books sixty thousand dollars daily.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is tapasya. It is very strong power, this... Therefore Bhāgavata said that this power, sex power, is there in the hogs. They have no discrimination between mother, sister, daughter. And simply busy. The example is given. This capacity is there in the hog. Are you hog? How example is given. Do you like to remain like a hog? One should be saintly. Yes. Then where is the difference, I'm a human being? I am treating like hog. Therefore this very example. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujām (SB 5.5.1). This is for the hogs. This hog civilization is going on as human civilization. That is the difficulty. Whole world is hogs and dogs. Big, big United Nations. And what are the assembly? Hogs and dogs. The politicians, as soon as he gets some time for relax, immediately he becomes hogs. Go to the hotel, prostitute, and drink and dance. Is it not? All politicians. You become a big hog. That's all. Without becoming politician, a small hog. Because they have got politi..., big hog. So how you can expect prosperity from these big hogs? After all he's hog. What benefit you can derive from this hogs, assembly of hogs, United Nations? United hogs. You cannot expect. He's hog. Now they're making propaganda for sterilization, and if we advise make a brahmacārī-āśrama from the beginning, they will not take. "What is this nonsense, brahmacārī?"

Room Conversation -- September 16, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All the Vaiṣṇavas, they are expert. Just like Rūpa, Sanātana, expert manager. Even in worldly affairs. Not that "I am so much big devotee that I cannot manage worldly affairs." Expert, must be expert. Dakṣa. (pause) So she can give me the fruits now. So... (break) ...intelligent policy to kill India's spiritual status.

Haṁsadūta: To kill India's spiritual status?

Prabhupāda: That was their policy. Because there was one Britisher politician, Lord McCauley. His report was, he studied the whole Indian situation. They were very expert politicians. He reported that "If you keep Indians as Indians, you'll never be able to rule over them. They must be trained up in such a way that they would think their own culture as useless; this Western culture is very good. That impression must be there. Otherwise, you cannot rule over them." So the education and everything was going on very silently on this principle.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: There is no difference. The same thing. Kṛṣṇa is God. (break)

Interviewer: What is, sir, the number of your disciples round the world?

Prabhupāda: Dedicated life—not less than ten thousand. And admirers, there are many millions. Recently one American politician has remarked in Houston, that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is spreading like epidemic. So unless we take some steps it may take our government." (laughter)

Interviewer: Who was the man who said it?

Hari-śauri: A government official in Houston.

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is his name? You can give.

Hari-śauri: His name was not given.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Simply it is said a government official.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Interviewer: Sir, apart from Catholicity of the American church, what can be the other reasons of their indifference towards your positive ideas?

Prabhupāda: Not indifference. They are... You see, there is a remark of a politician. There is no indifference. They are appreciating that it is spreading like epidemic. There is no question of indifference. But the leaders, they appreciate. Some of the fathers of my disciples, they come to offer their thanks, "Swamiji, it is a great fortune for us that you have come to our country." They say like that. They appreciate that their sons were going to be hippies. Now they are devotees, God conscious. So any sane man will never object to this. The priests also, they say that "These boys are our boys..." In Boston, one priest said. "And they never cared to come to the church or inquire about God. And now these boys are mad after God." Not only that, practically, in many places we have purchased churches and converted into temples. So we see these churches were sold because nobody was coming. But since this movement is there, the same church is there and the same persons are there. You will find always it is crowded. This is practical. I have not imported men from India to fill up the temples. Their men and their church, but the philosophy is different. It is filled up.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: A broker club business. So the businessmen, the zamindars, and gradually they started their factories, railways, in this way they started. And they are big politicians, so it is their management. And they failed when things were mismanaged. First of all they created friendship, and later on when they were in power, they created enmity. Then it is failed.

Devotee: Hm.

Prabhupāda: First of all friendship, and that established them. And then they began to create enmity. Hindus against Muslim, Muslim... They wanted to stay. When they forgot this idea that if they wanted to stay for the benefit of the people, nobody could drive them away. But their policy was for the benefit of the English people. Therefore they failed. Lord Curzon, he says a statement that, "If you want to stay in India, rule India for the benefit of Indian people. You can keep control over India. They are fond of kings, so one member of the royal family can become king here and they'll earn respect and honor (from) these Indian people. But rule for their benefit. Then British Empire will stay." Very good advice, but his advice was not taken. You have seen Lord Curzon's statue near the, in front of the Victoria Memorial Hall?

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He was becoming very popular. So...

Haṁsadūta: And at least according to Bible, it appeared that the Jewish priests, they went to the governor or the chief man at that time, and they demanded that he has to do something about this man.

Prabhupāda: They have proposed it. That Houston politician, "It is spreading like epidemic." Hm? Come. "It is spreading like epidemic. Something must be done." Otherwise one day they'll capture our government." That's a fact. If so many young men join this movement, they will vote. Because your country is democratic. (conchshell blows) Do this what I suggested.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah. You see them...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (break) "What is this pressure?" "Sir is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (laughter) And very bad." Some day somebody says, "No it is good." (laughter) But Kṛṣṇa pressure.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That Bhavan's Journal, he did not dare to publish my statement. Everyone is combined to kill Kṛṣṇa. Everyone, all over the world. God... "There is no God," the scientists, these philosophers, the politicians, everyone. This is the only movement talking of God. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī. Everywhere, impersonalists and zero. There is no God. The zero-vādīs, they are little frank but these rascals, nirviśeṣavādīs, God has no head, no tail, they are dangerous. Zero-vādīs, they call him zero, that's alright. That is, we can understand, they admit. But these rascals, zero, nirviśeṣavādīs, "Yes, there is God, but He has no head, he has no tail, he has no hand, he has no leg." Then what he has? They are greatest cheater. More dangerous than the śūnyavādīs. That is the version of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Vedinam mayima bhogda hoila nāstik, vedāśraya, nāstikavāda bhogda ki hodi. These Buddhists, they do not care for the Vedic injunction. We can understand. But these Śankarites they take shelter of the Vedas and they say, "There is no form of God." And that is being followed (by) the so-called Hindus. All the invitees in that meeting, Bajaj meeting, they are all nirviśeṣvādī.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Remedy is they should admit that there is God. But they do not admit, especially the so-called scientist rascals and atheist philosophers, politicians. They do not accept the authority of God. They think they will be able to manage things in their own way. And they say clearly, "There is no God." But there is nature. You can say, "I don't care for the government but the government force is there; police is there; military is there. Similarly, you may say, "Defy the control of government," but the agent of God is there, the material nature. That will punish you. There will be no rain, there will be no food production, and the rascal governments will take advantage of it, "food relief." They'll tax, as if by taxing they will be able to combat with nature. So three things we'll have to meet: no rain, no food, and government taxes. Then how people will remain in sane condition? They will become mad.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We should stop all rascal plan and should take the plan given by God. Then it will be... Everything will be all right. Simple solution. The God's plan is there in this book. Let us take it. Then everything solved. But "No, we are scientist. We are philosopher. We are big man, politician. We shall make our own." Do and suffer. God has given freedom: "All right." Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Kṛṣṇa said in the Bhagavad-gītā after explaining Arjuna everything, then He asked, "What you have decided? Your plan or My plan?" So Kṛṣṇa said, "I am giving you freedom. Whatever you like, you can do." The plan is there. Now it is up to us to accept it or reject it. If you reject, you suffer. If you accept, you become happy. So we are requesting people, "Accept it." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. "Then you'll be happy." But who cares for us? He is making his own plan. Therefore he must suffer. Nature's law he cannot avoid. That's not possible. Nature's law, there is... (break) ...if God likes, immediately there will be rain. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ. That is also stated. So read that. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni, annād.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, the outside. So all philosophers, all scientists, all politicians, let us combine together. The formula is there. Read it.

Hari-śauri:

annād bhavanti bhūtāni
parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ
yajñād bhavati parjanyo
yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ
(BG 3.14)

"All living bodies subsist on food grains, which are produced from rains. Rains are produced by performance of yajña, sacrifice, and yajña is born of prescribed duties."

Prabhupāda: That's it. There is no prescribed duties. Everyone is a butcher. Formerly there was distinction, "Here is a butcher; here is a religious man." At the present moment everyone is a butcher. Who is religious man? There was division, at least one class, first-class man, second-class man, third-class man. Then, if there is ideal first-class man, even the fourth-class, third man, he'll take the idea, "Oh, here is first-class." But there is no first-class man. All fourth-class men. So who will give idea? And they want to remain fourth-class. If you say that "You become first-class," they will laugh. "What is the use of becoming first-class?" First-class means, find out, śamo damas titikṣā, then, brahma-karma svabhāva-jam.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is kṣatriya. Now, who is kṣatriya? A fourth-class man, he never seen battlefield and by vote he becomes president. And here kṣatriya means yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. If there is fight he must come forward first of all. He is in his palace, and he's engaging common men, "Go and fight." When there was Battle of Kurukṣetra Arjuna and Duryodhana, they came first. Because the battle was decided as soon as the leader is dead. No more fight. So they used to come first. This is kṣatriya. Where is that kṣatriya? And they are becoming politicians simply by votes, all third-class, fourth-class men. What he'll do? Everyone is trying to keep his position by hook and crook. How he'll think of the people? How they will be happy? He is thinking of his own happiness. And these are politicians. There is no kṣatriya. There is no brāhmaṇa. And there is no vaiśya. What is the vaiśya?

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Take prasādam, see drama, read books, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. And if you like, you can live with us. So where is the difficulty? Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā (Bs. 5.37). (pause) That American politician has predicted that "This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, within ten years, they will capture our government." (laughs) So do it actually. Then it will be very nice. It is not... Simply take the people in your favor; the government is yours. That they are afraid of. The young boys, they are taking Hare Kṛṣṇa movement seriously, so the government can be changed in their favor. After all, it is democracy. So you can do it. You become president. You become senator. In America it is possible. And if America accepts... What about this new president? Or... Formerly I heard about him that he is religious man.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He was a politician. That you cannot blame. Politics require all these things. A politician cannot be a saintly person. That is not possible. For politics he has to do so many things. That is necessary. Just like Arjuna wanted to be a nonviolent. Immediately it was condemned by Kṛṣṇa, "What is this nonsense? You are a military man. Nonviolent." And similarly, politicians, they require all this. Businessman must deal in black market. It is inevitable. Otherwise he cannot improve. Because the world is bad, you, if you become honest, then you cannot make pros..., cannot become prosperous. Sate sārtham samācaret.(?) Brāhmaṇa's dealing must be very straight and honest. They are not meant for politics or business. They are for transcendental knowledge. Kṛṣṇa conscious person should be all-inclusive. He must be a politician, he must be a brāhmaṇa, he must be a kṣatriya, he must be a śūdra—everything. All-inclusive. Because he is transcendental. In otherwise he is neither a brāhmaṇa, neither a śūdra, neither a... Yes. Nāhaṁ vipro na ca nara-patir na yatir vā. Neither of these. In other side he is everything. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. As Kṛṣṇa is sometimes cowherd boy, politician, sometimes dancing with, artist—He is everything, not one-sided. So all food is finished?

Devotee: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So take your country (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then surely we shall get the government. This is the prediction of a politician, "Kṛṣṇa conscious, the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is spreading like a epidemic. That I'm afraid within ten years they'll get the government."

Devotee: I know.

Prabhupāda: If the young man joins, immediately.

Hari-śauri: If they find out that that's our actual plan...

Prabhupāda: Why you should not need? It must have. Hare Kṛṣṇa party. You have got Democratic Party, Republican Party, another party, Hare Kṛṣṇas. Bas.

Devotee: Prasādam party.

Prabhupāda: No, Hare Kṛṣṇas. That will be main thing. At least they will criticize Hare Kṛṣṇa and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) That's all. We want. (Sanskrit) It is said that. (Sanskrit) If we respect chanting, it is very good, even by neglecting chant, that is also good. Just like Ajamila, he chanted. He never meant "Nārāyaṇa." He meant his son, but he got result. Ante nārāyaṇa smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). He never meant that he's calling for Nārāyaṇa. He did not follow up bhakti. But Nārāyaṇa took care of it that "Now anyway he's chanting 'Nārāyaṇa.' He must come to Vaikuṇṭha."

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. First of all one has to become siddha. And not only you become siddha, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3), even one is siddha it is very difficult for him to understand-tattvataḥ. What Kṛṣṇa means, to understand, it is not so easy job. And again He said, He explains that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Only the devotees can understand. It is not the business of the karmīs, jñānīs, yogis. He has strictly specified-bhaktyā. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si. When He wanted to instruct Arjuna... Arjuna was a householder, a kṣatriya, not even a brāhmaṇa, not a Vedantist. The question may be why He selected Arjuna to preach Bhagavad-gītā which is so (indistinct) and (indistinct). That Kṛṣṇa says bhakto 'si. "Without being bhakta nobody can understand Me." And again He confirms, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If we interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a different way, karma, jñāna, yoga, you'll never get Kṛṣṇa. So these things are there. So to understand Bhagavad-gītā one has to become a devotee, pure devotee. Not because he's learned scholar, he's a big politician or a big yogi or big jñānī. Because He plainly says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ, what He is, then it is natural he'll interpret in his way, his own philosophy. That is not (indistinct). If you take jñāna, yoga, karma, or other.... But it is not possible. You have to receive it through the paramparā system. The paramparā system is clear. As Arjuna understood, you have to take it.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Good man from worldly point of view, but from spiritual point of view, in the lowest stage. Karmī is the lowest stage. Then jñānī, then yogi, then bhakta.

Mr. Malhotra: More a politician.

Prabhupāda: Yes, karmī means this how to enjoy this world. Whole life they have struggled how to enjoy this, how to enjoy myself, how to allow my men to enjoy. This is karmī platform. Everyone is doing that. Everyone is working hard for himself, for his family, and expand the family, for society, and expand the society, for the nation. Here is karmī plan. Gandhi, Birla they are all... There is no question of spiritual life.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...saintly person. Such men should understand. Rājarṣi. Not ordinary king. Ṛṣi. Ṛṣi tulya. So if one is religious, then he will institute. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the big, big leaders, politicians, they accept Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, then others will follow. Unfortunately, the leaders, they have their own interpretation. They won't accept Bhagavad-gītā. That is the difficulty.

Indian man: Prabhupāda, how about opening one temple in Ahmedabad?

Prabhupāda: Why not? We are opening everywhere, why not in Ahmedabad? Good idea. I want to open centers in every village, in every town.

Indian man: That is very good, but to begin with, if such centers... I was discussing with Girirāja...

Prabhupāda: Is there any chance of opening?

Indian man: Yes. In Ahmedabad? Why not? There is no obstruction. The Christians have now opened up two centers. Arya-samaj has opened one. So there is no restriction. And these areas, like Ahmedabad or in some of the African countries where people have still no inclination or no knowledge of one particular kind of religion or particular thing, they are open to anything which is given to them.

Prabhupāda: There must be preacher, good preacher.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are two sections, the impersonalist and the personalist. The personalists are the Vaiṣṇavas, and the impersonalists are the Māyāvādīs. So far the spiritual life is concerned, there is no difference. There is no difference. Just like Śaṅkara. Śaṅkarācārya said that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. The spiritual life is reality. And this is nonreality. But we say that this is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Kṛṣṇa said. We are follower of Kṛṣṇa. "This is a place of suffering. And if you come to Me then your suffering ends." So this world is condemned either by Śaṅkarācārya, or others, everyone. But the modern rascals, they have taken this world as everything. Therefore they are in ignorance. Do you follow? They have taken this world, this life of fifty years or sixty years, at most hundred years, as reality. These rascals have no knowledge that we have life after annihilation of this body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Who knows it? Bring big, big men, big, big politician.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: When we go out and preach and we just repeat or try to repeat whatever we've heard from the spiritual master, but we may not have fully realized what we're speaking about, does that somehow or another reduce the potency of the Gītā or the Bhāgavatam or...

Prabhupāda: Yes, realization takes time. Therefore there is no question of realization. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says you simply repeat as Kṛṣṇa says. That will save you. The so-called political leaders, they have no realization, but they manufacture their ideas. That is dangerous. Mislead themselves and others. In Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, ācāryopāsanam. Amānitvam adambhitvam. This is the process of knowledge. These so-called scholars and politicians, they have no ācārya. Instead of being amānitvam, they're mani... "I have become a leader, so whatever I shall say, it will be accepted." This is going on. Very bad. It is clearly said, as soon as you give up the ācārya system it is rotten. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. So things which is rotten, what you'll get benefit? That is going on. Therefore in spite of so many Gītā commentators, big, big leaders, scholars, not a single person is converted into a devotee. Not a single person amongst their followers. It's useless talking. Therefore it is forbidden. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtam... Because they are not Vaiṣṇava, politicians and—reject them immediately. Immediately. That is the injunction. I wrote Mahatma Gandhi that "You are so respectful. People have got... Now you have got your svarāja. Please take Bhagavad-gītā seriously and let us preach."

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Ācārya is one who ācāra, himself practices.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. One who knows and practices. Ācinoti śāstra. One who knows the real purpose. And there is no difficulty of understanding the real purpose. It is clearly said, everything. The process of knowledge is given, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam (BG 13.8). Where is that? In the beginning, "Oh, I am such a big leader, politician. Whatever I say is nice." Dambha. Dambha. Because he's thinking puffed-up falsely. Some rascal fools give them clap. (Prabhupāda claps) They think, "Oh, I have become very great."

Dr. Patel: Nowadays sir, they collect people to clap them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They make such a speech and practice. One political leader, he is young man, he was saying in Hyderabad... He was ambassador in... That Rao?

Hari-śauri: Yes, Motilal Rao.

Prabhupāda: So he did not know. He said that "When I was going to be ambassador, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he told me that, "You first of all write a speech and practice it and deliver it very nicely. Then they will applaud." This is Dr. Radhakrishnan. They want simply applause. That's all. Because they know, "If the public applauds, then I keep my position. I am... Whatever nonsense I speak or whatever nonsense I... it doesn't matter."

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...learned scholar, English licensed. We know that Madanmohan Malhotra. In those days Surendranath Bannerji was a great orator. You have heard his name? Surendranath Bannerji. He is the practically father of Indian nationalism. So he was I.C.S., and in those days English scholar, His father was big doctor. Dr. Dugdhachandra Bannerji. So his speech, this Madanmohan Malhotra used to rote, cram, and before a mirror he would speak like this. "Oh..." In this way he became a politician. He was smārta-brāhmaṇa and he became a politician. Simply by imitating Surendranath Bannerji's speech.

Dr. Patel: Even those who are with Baroda Maharaj and all Maharaj's speeches were written by (indistinct) so one can (indistinct) These are your ideas Maharaj, "Well, everyone knows that I am writing it. It doesn't matter. I won't correct it." All the speeches given by Maharaj of Baroda was written by (indistinct). All, all, practically all. Here's a reference there. And he was a great scholar after all.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. He was English born. His father was medical man. Dr. Madanmohan Bannerji.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you expand it. A dog is thinking, "I am this body. I am bulldog," "I am greyhound." And man is also thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian." But they do not know their real identity, and they are fighting like dogs. And this is going on in the name of civilization. And when we put forward Bhagavad-gītā, the first lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "Arjuna, you are talking like a very learned man, but you are lamenting about the body. But actually..." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ: "So far the body is con..., this is lump of matter. So whether it is dead or alive, nobody seriously think of it, no learned, paṇḍita." Of course, those who are fools, rascal, they can take it. But those who are actually learned, they do not talk about this body. So upon this statement just see the world situation. Everyone is busy on the concept of body. So what is the position of the world? Apaṇḍita, ignorance. And such people are going on as learned scholars, as politicians and leaders and so on. So how there can be peace? If you bring different types of dogs, greyhound and bulldog and Indian dog and bring them—the "United Dog Association" (laughter)—so will there be peace? That is the position. I declared in Melbourne in a public meeting that this United Nation is the unity of barking dog. I told. It was published in the paper. They also criticized me, "The Swami has come to hound." (laughter) But that is actually the fact. If you become impartial judge, not on behalf of CID or anyone, then you see the actual.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I have no appetite also. (laughs) I do not eat too much. Whatever, one or two cāpāṭis, they give, I take. That's all. This is my royalty.

CID Chief: But any... How these politicians, they react to this in America? Do they...

Prabhupāda: There also... Here. Here people are suspecting that I am getting money from CIA, and they are also suspecting that I am cheating people and getting money.

CID Chief: Yeah, but do they have any prohibition about these religious discourses?

Prabhupāda: No, not... Prohibition has yet come. But individual cases, they have been instituted, and we are fighting by spending so much money to defend.

CID Chief: Yeah, but I read in some paper that somewhere they had this county courts, you know, ruling that people are disturbed by the kīrtanas and this for twenty-four hours and...

Prabhupāda: No, we have got judgment. You read those judgment, judges? We have got counterjudgements also.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: So on, so on. And tomorrow by the laws of nature if I become a dog in Europe, then where is my nationalism? And it is possible. What is called? Because you are under nature's law, you are not independent. Therefore they have given up this idea that there is life after death. This is their first ignorance. Everyone is thinking that this life is everything for twenty years or thirty years or hundred years-eat, drink, be merry, enjoy then everything is finished. The whole Russian people, they think like that. Not whole, I don't, I cannot say but the learned, their learned professors, they think like that. The life is ended after this body. So our people also, our these politicians, they also think like that. So this is the platform of ignorance. And people are so much (indistinct), born into this ignorance. It is very, very difficult to raise them from this ignorance. This is our task. The first business is to convince him that "Your life continues." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). But it is very difficult for the modern man to understand.
Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) in water. Soak it. Maybe if I feel hungry I shall take it. This is the condition of material world, simply harassing, this all these big, big government (indistinct). How to harass. The more you learn this art, how to harass, you become a big politician. Not para-upakāra. Mandāḥ sumanda matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Upadrutāḥ, disturbing. Adhibautika, one living entity is harassing another living entity, killing. So I have decided to construct a temple in Bhuvaneśvara. What do you think, shall I attempt?

Girirāja: Of course that is our business to construct temples.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple (indistinct). Temple means preaching center. This Gurukula I have made for temple (indistinct) center. Now they have made it but that (indistinct). Purpose is, that whole world in the neophyte stage, they will (indistinct), man-manā bhava mad..., think of Kṛṣṇa, offering obeisances, offer (indistinct) from the persons maintaining the temple (indistinct). Therefore they do not like that a temple should be constructed, it is waste of... (indistinct) ...must be engaged to work hard, produce money and enjoy sense gratification. Hog civilization. We are restricting that "Don't work hard like hog and dog or animals, just satisfy your minimal necessities of life, save time and (indistinct) spiritual understanding. This is our mission.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

D. D. Desai: Now that is not... It's not also the quest which I am really inviting, 2 p.m., and this is the acknowledgement. And subsequently we have our dinner at Brahmanandari Place. We have a purpose, we intend, discuss at length.

Prabhupāda: No, you can study. It is going on throughout the whole world. Now the Western world, they're feeling the strength. They have now begun opposition. Their politicians are thinking that "This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is spreading like epidemic." Actually it is so. "And if it is spread so quickly, within ten years they'll take our government." They say like that. And that is possible because these young men, they have taken seriously and they're pushing on. If the majority is after them, they can take over. It is democratic, America. And how they are after this movement... If you see our latest picture of Ratha-yātrā... You have seen that film? Ratha-yātrā?

D. D. Desai: Yes. So many thousands of...

Prabhupāda: Fifth Avenue.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I asked to take the government.

Dr. Patel: That would not happen in any other country but America, freedom par excellence.

Prabhupāda: There is possibility of Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees will take the government.

Dr. Patel: That can be possible because of freedom, essential freedom of that country.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we are being checked that "They may not grow." One politician has said that "If they grow like this, in ten years they'll take the government."

Trivikrama: Someone has said that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He said. Some politician has said that "The Hare Kṛṣṇa people are growing so rapid, like epidemic." He has said. "And if they grow like this within ten years they may take our government." He has remarked it.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Trivikrama: We have seen in Japan. Now they are...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Here also, all these politicians, they are after woman, meat and money. That's all.

Trivikrama: Intoxication.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One... Who was speaking, that in...? Some gentleman, he was Feroz(?) Gandhi's friend. He went to America, and he was eating beef like anything.

Dr. Patel: Feroz? He was, Gandhi?

Prabhupāda: Not... No, another Indian leader. He's a Marwari brāhmaṇa.

Dr. Patel: Parsee would never eat beef, sir, huh? I heard they are...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They are eating everything.

Dr. Patel: They don't eat beef.

Prabhupāda: I know. They are eating. They eat everything. I have seen one Parsee here in Bombay. He is chanting and getting one chicken cut throat by the man. And he's cutting. He gave in a paper and he took it away. And he's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. (Dr. Patel laughs loudly) Not Hare Kṛṣṇa, but... They have got all their chants. They have got their chanting. And I have seen their kitchen. It is more dirty than the toilet.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is chance of being accepted all over the world. There is now opposition, and some of the politicians, they're of opinion that "This culture, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, is spreading like epidemic, and if we do not check, in ten years time they'll take the government."

Guest (1) (Indian man): Of America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) That there is possibility because these young men, they are taking. So everywhere revolution takes place by young men. So if it is actually spreading like epidemic, and young men, they are taking part, so within ten years it is not impossible.

Guest (1): It's a very good idea, then, to follow it. I'm quite serious.

Prabhupāda: And they are democratic. It can pull down even a President like Nixon. So if they like, if the majority becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, they can make Kṛṣṇa conscious government. There is no, I mean to say, wonder in it. So anyway, because these youngsters in the Western countries, both in Europe and America, are taking... And the recent telegram we have received... Just see how many books we have sold. (aside:) Make it little less.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ha. There was no consul...

Guest (2): They had found a final solution to the Jewish problem.

Prabhupāda: These politicians, they're everything. And when the war is very acute and the husband is going to die, then God is required. When he does sinful activities, God is never consulted, but when he suffers, then God's consulted. "And if You don't supply my order, then I don't want You." Means he remains: "Don't want You." That's all.

Guest (2): Swamiji, may I ask one question which I had much discussion with your śiṣya here. Brahman, the sort of, what we in Hindu philosophy consider as the ultimate Godhead...

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest (2): Brahman you consider Kṛṣṇa. But He is, of course... He was incarnate. He was one of the avatāras.

Prabhupāda: That is your opinion. That is not...

Guest (2): That is our point which I want to clarify.

Prabhupāda: You have to take the śāstra, authority. Brahmaṇo aham pratiṣṭhā. Read Bhagavad-gītā. You read Bhagavad-gītā? Now, did you not read this?

Guest (2): Well, that's what I want to clarify.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Asnani: He was a politician. Pseudopolitician.

Prabhupāda: He went to preach Vedānta, but instead of preaching Vedānta, he learned so many things which is objectionable from Vedic civilization.

Mr. Asnani: He also said that you cannot teach the religion on empty stomachs.

Prabhupāda: That is his philosophy.

Girirāja: So many people say that.

Prabhupāda: But why the kings left their kingdom and became empty stomach? There were...

Mr. Asnani: They lived in jungle for tapasya.

Prabhupāda: Why this Bhārata-varṣa, Bharata Mahārāja, at the twenty-four years of age and his wife was young, children were young, and he was emperor of the whole world, so why went voluntarily to become empty stomach? He was not poverty-stricken. But why he accepted?

Devotee: Tapasya.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Gurudāsa: There's an unofficial rumor that Indira Gandhi's going to come. Speaking of politicians, I did some research on Tarun Kanti for the letter, and he's very preoccupied now, and Gargamuni Swami told me that he doesn't want to have anything to do with foreign funds.

Prabhupāda: Foreign funds.

Gurudāsa: In other words, that letter would say, "I would oversee this." On the other hand, there's a man from CARE who went to our camp and was very impressed with the food program. I thought we could get a letter from him, because Germany knows CARE and they don't know Tarun Kanti Gosh from the dobi.

Prabhupāda: No.

Gurudāsa: So I thought CARE would be good, so Abhirama Prabhu is trying for that. Also I saw C. L. Bijaya yesterday when I was waiting to come here, and he was very happy to see me. And he said by your inspiration, "I want to give you that room downstairs."

Prabhupāda: Which room?

Gurudāsa: That room at the bottom.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that will solve our great problem.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: And our Ādi-keśava, he has also grown out his hair for the court case and all the people. He's meeting the politicians.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But we are famous as shaven-headed. That is already advertised. Shaven-headed means Kṛṣṇas. So why should we relinquish this...

Haṁsadūta: Trademark.

Rāmeśvara: It has made us famous. That's a fact.

Trivikrama: Yes, it means a monk. In the Far East at least, shaven head means monk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Shaven-headed. These Buddhist monks, they are shaven-headed.

Hari-śauri: Even in the West they shave their heads. And they look something like that.

Prabhupāda: Well, there was some income tax office pleader. So I have given the idea that "The fifty percent, that is promotion expenditure." So he accept..., "Yes, it can be done." Where is the profit? Whatever is profit is promotion expenditure. We give to ISKCON commission, or some way or other, it is spent. So he admitted, "Yes, it can be done." And last night I was suggesting, "For promotion spend." Even if we open a temple, that is promotion.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Stop breathing means you don't spend. You have got a limited breathing period. By yogic process, you stop breathing, but you remain. That is mystic yoga. So similarly, you can simply increase your life by not using the breathing process. That is praṇāyāma. That is praṇāyāma. So... But you cannot exceed the limit. That is not possible. (Hindi) You don't keep hygienic life. (Hindi) You infect. That is your fault. (Hindi) To live ordinarily healthy life, that is... But if you transgress the hygienic principle, if you transgress the law of nature, you must suffer. Similarly, we are suffering in this material world—the covering is there—because we wanted to transgress the laws of God. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare. When we forget our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa is the original master, and I am the servant," as soon as you forget this relationship, this is contamination, immediately. Everyone is trying to become another Kṛṣṇa. This is struggle. Here in this material world you'll find everyone is trying to become very, very big-big leader, big politician, big businessman, big, big, big. But he is not big. That is the disease. He is not big, and he's trying to become big.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: That's what I'm wondering. I was thinking that it wouldn't be. There would be...

Jagadīśa: Otherwise how can we get through? What is the use of having one politician?

Rāmeśvara: Many revolutions have been victorious with a very small minority of people behind them because they're so well organized. Russia, Germany, all these revolutions.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Rāmeśvara: In history there is examples of small groups of people taking over a government because they are very intelligent and very well organized.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: And the mass of people did not believe in them, but still, they took over the government. Like in Russia.

Jagadīśa: But Kṛṣṇa consciousness knowledge...

Prabhupāda: In Russia, the mass of people aloof from this rascal theory.

Hari-śauri: They are not Communists, the mass of people. The Communist party itself is very small.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very small. By terrorism there will be, by terrorism.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Actually India is poor. When we give food, how voraciously they eat. They cannot eat. They have no resources to eat nicely at home. That's a fact. Half-fed. At least half-fed. In the villages they are not fully fed. They have no sufficient clothing, no food, that's all. The rascal politicians, realizing heavy tax, and that is divided amongst them. It is not going to the poor. They are imitating Western way of life. They have got huge expenditure. So whatever money is coming, they are spending for their luxury, and poor men... The Gandhi's movement, boycott British goods, but they took it: "Boycott British goods and take our goods." So the consumer goods were the same. Gandhi helped to stop the British capitalist in favor of the Indian capitalist. The consumer remained in the same position, rather, worse. The foreigners, they are thinking that "These people are poor. They cannot pay more to me." And these rascals, Indian capitalists, in the name of nationalism, Birlas and others, they exploit. And they give contribution to Gandhi, Gandhi's staff, Jawaharlal Nehru's staff. And they took the opportunity that "I shall pay this rascal one lakh, and I shall utilize the ten lakhs." That's it. So the object of exploitation remained the same. Rather, by artificial inflation of money market put common men in plight, because the other day I was calculating... The things have gone high priced, thirty times, but the income has not increased thirty times. The other day I was calculating. My father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees. So we had no scarcity. In our standard of life there was no scar... What standard of...? That standard of life is still... Now that three hundred rupees is... He calculated.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I started Māyāpur this prasāda distribution. And it is coming to be successful. People are, politicians are appreciating that here is Hindu-Muslim unity.

Rāmeśvara: All the devotees will appreciate this then. That the records now, the money is going to be used for food relief.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And we can increase. The same thing (indistinct) in the farm, in the village, "Come on, any number, I shall feed you. Come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and take prasādam." And we shall increase the quality of the prasādam. They will be very much pleased to come and chant. That I want. I am interested in these rascals (indistinct). Fighting amongst them. What can we do? You can go for some time, see what is the reason you have come. (indistinct) ...elderly person, he will come. (indistinct) younger brothers (indistinct) but that he has no power to do. Misunderstanding there will be, after all it is the material world. You go and see why (indistinct). I used to think like that. In all our temples the prasāda distribution should be so random (?), that within ten miles nobody should remain hungry. There are many persons in India, they are half time hungry. So if you distribute prasādam, "Come over here. You are hungry, take prasādam. If I cannot supply daily, I'll supply at least two days, three days weekly." And they're coming. You have seen Māyāpur (indistinct). A big prasāda distribution hall. Regular two thousands are coming (indistinct). And Hindu, Muslim, they're sitting down. No (indistinct).

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: In Durban. South Africa. Fighting with General Smuts to give Indians equal rights. They are very conservative. At heart they want "Indians may go away." They don't want Indians. And if they want, it is for their own benefit. The Indians have given some place to develop as marketplace, and as soon as they develop, they ask, "Go there. Leave this place. Go away, other place." This is going on. And they know very well, politicians. The Indians have been given a place where nearby there is a slaughterhouse. They know Indians are sentimental, at least for cow slaughtering. Whole night slaughtering is going on, and there are screaming of the animals. Whole night. Even those who are meat-eaters, they will be disturbed. So the purpose is that "Let them live near the slaughterhouse, so by sentiment they are disgusted, leave this country." They don't want the Asians, especially Indians, and especially due to Gandhi, because they know, due to Gandhi... At least Gandhi organized the public opinion against the Britishers by this noncooperation movement. They were not affected by the... Affected in this way, that public opinion was against them. That is also organization. Otherwise Gandhi's method was not harmful to the..., this noncooperation, nonviolent. That did not help. But he influenced the public opinion against them.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Gurudāsa: Was it introduced by the English?

Prabhupāda: Yes. India did not know what is tea. They started the tea gardens, and they recruited labors from India. We have seen in our childhood that Mahatma Gandhi Road. When I was standing on the gate, five hundred, six hundred laborers recruited from Bihar. Bihar and Orissa, these two provinces very poor. Even all these colonies, just like Trinidad... Where is Englishmen? If the laborers and Indians were sent... Therefore we find in Mauritius, in Africa, so many Indians. Their kingdom, first of all it was conquered by Indian soldiers. Then, when it was to be organized-Indian coolies, Indian laborers, Indian guards. They have got men and money, but they expanded Empire. So I am doing the same business: American money, American... (laughs) I am also a great politician.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). So on the whole, people are in darkness. And that is going on as advancement. This is the only institution to give them some light. There is no doubt about it. All in the darkness. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are in darkness, and some leader comes, he is also in the darkness, and both of them fall into the ditch. This is going on. Do you agree to this point? Otherwise you cannot become good preacher. You must yourself, must be convinced that actually this is the position. All these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians—they're all in darkness, and they're misguiding people. That's all. One of the first-class rascal in darkness is your Darwin. He's in favor of Darwin's theory. Another first-class demon is that Freud. (laughter) These are the guides of the modern civilization. Anthropomorphism. No? What is called?

Gargamuni: Anthropology?

Prabhupāda: Anthropology.

Jayapatākā: Now the latest demon is the one who says the population theory, overpopulation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Pandemonium, yes. This has to be reformed. You cannot avoid these four classes working under the superior instruction of brahminical culture. Then everything... This life successful, next life is back to home, back to Godhead. That is civilization, no speculation. The formula is already there. Bhagavad-gītā is the guidance, as it is. "Be happy here, and next life hope. Why you are disappointed? Take this way and be happy." This is our movement. We are not going to exploit anyone. We are giving the right path: "Be happy in this life and next life also." This is our mission. Para upakāra. They are blindly following some ways of life. Blind men, certainly, without guidance, we are falling down in the ditch. Once this human life is misused, he falls down in the ditch. He does not... He becomes a tree. "Stand up there for one thousand years. What you can do?" This risk they are taking. They do not believe, therefore, there is next life. And wherefrom this life came, varieties? These rascals have no brain, and they are passing as scientist, politician, philosopher, all rascals, tenth-class men. Tell them. Challenge them, "What do you know about the value of life? Your brain must be washed to clear out all the dirty things." Our duty is that. Just like a patient does not know how he will be cured, but the surgeon—"Operation. Clear out these pusses."

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: He was nonviolent. "In the name of religion, one can kill." This is his philosophy. He was a politician. That's all. And he indulged personally in mercy killing in his āśrama. One calf was suffering, and he asked, "Kill him. He's very much suffering." Mercy killing. He was a rascal. But we don't say publicly, because he is very much... Sometimes we say.

Hari-śauri: (laughs) Sometimes.

Prabhupāda: What he...? He's not qualified man.

Rāmeśvara: This past year Russia sponsored a war in Africa, Angola. Is it Africa or South America? It's Africa, Angola? The Russians sponsored one war. They supplied all the money, all the weapons, and they were victorious. They conquered a country through their local Communist party.

Prabhupāda: Which is?

Rāmeśvara: It's called Angola. And the Americans were trying to support the opposing side. But the public in America has got such a bad taste from Vietnam that they became what they call isolationists.

Prabhupāda: They have become hopelessly, what is called, unsuccessful in Vietnam.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: So what, these nonsense politicians? They lost the money and inconvenience to others. These rascal politicians, they can do anything whimsical. They were getting money, not less than fifty thousand, not smaller than daily fifty thousand. From business point of view they could have raised the toll. They could get more money. What is the use of stopping?

Hari-śauri: Well, they raised the price of oil instead.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: They raised the price of oil instead.

Prabhupāda: Muhammadan, they... Brain fag. And they are thieves. The captains said that they are all thieves, these Egyptians.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Anything. Śarīra nā mahāśaya, yā saha mithaya saha (?) There is a Bengali proverb that the body is very nice. If you practice something, it will tolerate. Jaya. (devotees offer obeisances) (break) And whatever plan he's making, it will be all frustrated. That is the whole history. Big, big emperor, big, big politicians, they have tried. Roman Empire, the Carthagian Empire, Greece Empire, Egyptian Empire, and Mogul Empire, British Empire—all frustrated. It will never be successful. For a few days, hundred, two hundred years or five hundred years, it may go on. So real plan is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything is successful. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). These rascals, on account of false prestigious position, trying to be happy without God... That is not possible. Throughout the history you study. So many rascals have tried. The Napoleon, the Hitler, the Gandhi, this, that. What they have achieved? Nothing. If we honestly study their lives and activities, what they have achieved? Hm? Do you think they have achieved anything?

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Āsuram. This is the defect. "Why shall I hear Kṛṣṇa? Oh, here is a big politician. He is commenting." Just see. What is this? For the big politicians, you sacrifice Kṛṣṇa? In the beginning you are finished. Then how you'll make progress?

Guest (2): Politician is wrong.

Prabhupāda: They'll prefer, because to hear Kṛṣṇa is difficult. They'll accept some rascal who will make meaning here and there. That is...

Guest (7) (Indian man): Can anything be called religion without devotion? Can anything be called religion...

Prabhupāda: First of all we must understand what do you mean by religion. First of all let me know. What do you mean by religion? Hm? Religion means, according to Vedic śāstra, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). "Religion means the law given by God." It is very simple. But is you do not know what is God and if you do not know what law He has given, then where is religion? This is cheating. Just like law means the principle or the regulation given by the state, by the government. That is law, not that you manufacture some law at your home, as it is going on—yato mata tato patha. You manufacture something, rascal law, and that becomes a religion. That is not religion. Religion means the law given by God, simple law. So if you do not know what is God and if you do not know what law he has given, then where is your religion? There is no religion. Without understanding of God and without understanding of the law as given by God, then there is no religion. That is cheating in the name of religion.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: So they decided that because without soldiers and police, how they can rule over? And that, when they saw the soldiers are now joining Subash Bose and they are planning to come to India from Imphal, so they saw, "Now it is impossible." They are politicians. They could understand. So therefore the conclusion is: It is not Gandhi's nonviolence. It is Subash Bose's INA which compelled them to go away.

Guest (1): Bose had impact. Subash Bose had a great impact because, you see...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean to say, violent. When they were threatened with violence... They are not philosophers, that nonviolence will drive away. They are politicians. "You go on with your nonviolence movement." Gandhi did it for twenty years in Urban. What is that?

Pradyumna: Durban, South Africa?

Prabhupāda: Durban, Durban. No conclusion. The Indians are still segregated. I had been in South Africa. So from... What is that? Johannesburg. Johannesburg city, that Indian quarter, at least ten to fifteen miles away in a jungle. And there they have kept slaughterhouse.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: No, everything has got. Just like Subash Bose organized outside.

Guest (1): Subash Bose was a very great organizer and a great politician.

Prabhupāda: He organized. He made compromise, some he made, this Hitler and Tojo, that "Whoever, Indian soldiers surrendered, you..."

Guest (1): They should go to INA.

Prabhupāda: INA. He made this... And the soldiers were voluntarily surrendering.

Guest (1): (Prabhupāda chuckling) Ah, many. No, Subash was, had got a great personality.

Prabhupāda: When the Britishers saw, "Now the soldiers are coming in national movement. There is no hope. Better break this and go peacefully so that our business may not be disturbed, our relation may not be disturbed. Make a Commonwealth and so on, so on, hodgepodge. And do as much harm as possible dividing Pakistan and Hindustan, all the food in Pakistan, East Bengal and West Pakistan, gehun(?) and rice." And this Hindustan in starvation, because they were getting gehun(?) from Punjab and rice from East Bengal, and that is stopped. They very clever. Greatest harm they did. And in politics made in such a way that these two people, Hindustan and Pakistan, always fight. So they have gained. You have not gained. Gandhi wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. They made so bitter relationship that they will perpetually fight. That is Gandhi's qualification. They are so great diplomats that "This man wants Hindu-Muslim unity, so make such arrangement that this... They fight will continuous. And give all the food to the Pakistani, so they will starve. Let them eat coal." The Hindustan has got coal mine. "So they will suffer for industrial supply, and they will suffer for food. And they will fight." British diplomats are very clever. Gandhi even offered that "Don't divide India. You better give it to Jhinna." But this commission, this Patita Lalan(?). "No, no," said, "It is... Otherwise, there will be conflagration of always fight. Let it be settled." Gandhi went to this point, that "If you think that without division India will be chaos, so you better give it to Jhinna in the hand. Don't give it to me." But they wanted division.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals! Vaiṣṇava is the only intelligent. Therefore we say rascals, bokā. Therefore their general name is bokā. They do not know things, how it is going on by superior management. Bokā.

Yogeśvara: But we do protest the nonsense of the rascal politicians.

Prabhupāda: You can do it, but you do not know what is the cause and why one is suffering, why... These laws you do not know. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). The prakṛti is doing. You are thinking, "Oh, I can do something." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. You are rascal. By false prestige you are thinking that you are so great you can do something beyond God's arrangement. So that is your rascaldom.

Hari-śauri: Then why do we bother to preach? Why not just sit and do our bhajana?

Prabhupāda: We preach that "Submit to God." That's all. That is my all preaching. We don't say that you protest against the arrangement of God." We don't say. We simply say, "Whatever arrangement God has made, you submit." That's all.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: You cannot change. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). That is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. That is the false ahaṅkāra. "Oh, I can become. I know something. I have become scientist. I have become politician." That is ahaṅkāra, simply. It is useless. You cannot do anything. Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Understanding the laws of nature and the provider of the laws of nature is necessary.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That laws of nature is working. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Huh? Andhā yathāndhair..., te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Īśa-tantra, by the laws of nature they are tightly, hand and legs are, they are bound up. What they can do? Therefore Kṛṣṇa summarizes all the different types of tribulation. Kṛṣṇa said... These all kinds of tribulation is summarized in these four principles—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Ah. Bas. You make solution these, first of all. Then talk of all nonsense. You cannot make any solution. There are different types of suffering, but they are all summarized in these four words-janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Make solution. This is God's challenge. You are challenging God in His arrangement, and God's challenge is that "Here are four principles. Do something for these, rascal. Then you talk of solution."

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: If they accept, let them suffer. But our propaganda is "You accept it."

Pṛthu-putra: But if they accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness, do we have program to dovetail the propensities of being scientists or politicians? If, for example, they accept to understand Kṛṣṇa and they accept from Kṛṣṇa conscious...

Prabhupāda: Then we do not bother about the scientist.

Pṛthu-putra: Still, the tendency is there.

Prabhupāda: Dependency, that is... We are practiced. Suppose you have given this motorcar, but it doesn't mean that if there is no motorcar my Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be checked. If there is little facility, we can take it. That is another thing. But it is not that because there is no motorcar, then there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not like that. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be checked by any impediment. That cannot be checked. So we are not dependent. But to make the best use of a bad bargain. If we get some facility, why we should not take? We are not so fool. If I get a motorcar to go somewhere, why shall I walk? That is another foolishness. But we are not dependent on the motor... "Because there is no motorcar, therefore my Kṛṣṇa consciousness stopped." We are not such fools. The motorcar is available; all right, take advantage of it. We don't decline to accept whatever little material facilities are there. That is not foolish... That is foolishness.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is another difficulty. For general calculation a man can live up to a hundred years in this age. So in the middle, stop all rascaldom-compulsory. Now take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because you are persistent to continue your rascaldom, all right, do it up to this point. And then stop all this. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is a concession for continuing the rascaldom. But if he's so fool that he will continue the rascaldom as Jawaharlal Nehru did and Gandhi did and Hitler did and-up to the point of death—let him do. What can be done? They will continue their rascaldom. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Gandhi, unless he was killed by his own men, he did not retire. Jawaharlal Nehru, when he was just... There is no other way. He was in Dehra Dun, still Prime Minister, and he was brought very quickly from Dehra Dun to Delhi, and after one hour he died. All these politicians... And it is learned that he has become a dog in Scandinavia. You cannot say, "No," because you do not know what he has become. But tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. He must have changed the body. So where is your science? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). The prakṛti will change your body. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). And He's giving vivid example. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). And Kṛṣṇa is speaking. I shall not believe in Kṛṣṇa's word, and I shall go to some rascal? We are not so fool. Fools are bahir-artha-māninaḥ. "Oh, we are making this advancement. We will do in the future.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then how he can go against it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually they can't. I mean they have absolutely no case, but still they're pushing onwards just to make some, create some dirt.

Prabhupāda: The thing is... Real thing is that... That was spoken by one politician, that "It is spreading like epidemic?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That danger they are fighting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The thing is... There're now some demons in America, they are realizing that this is the most dangerous movement to their whole culture.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the real point. And if the young men, they are taking and they take it seriously, then they will take over government. Yes. That is the real point. Because they want to stop it. But it cannot be stopped. Because the younger generation, they are taking it seriously, it cannot be stopped.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such an important animal. And then, when she passes stool and urine, that is also nice. The milk is nutritious, the stool is useful; the urine is useful. Why this poor animal should be slaughtered? What kind of civilization? Your material desires, eating, sleeping, mating-fulfill it like a gentleman and save time and make spiritual advancement. This is to be introduced. Why you are inventing so strenuous work and spoil time, valuable time of human life? This we want to preach. Save time, be spiritually advanced, and other necessities, make it gentlemanly short-cut. If you save time, you can read all these literatures, understand what is value of life. Therefore, the literature here. Not for all. The brāhmaṇas, educated. And they'll distribute the knowledge by speaking. Others, those who are less intelligent, simply by hearing, they will be guided. Just be convinced what kind of civilization we are trying to introduce. We should not be carried away. Then finished. In order to check others, if we become carried away, (laughing) then finish all business. To save them from being washed away by māyā, if we become washed away, then where is the hope? Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). Be strong so that you may not be rascal, and then you can do; others you can check. Otherwise, it will be impossible. How it is possible? A man is drowning. If you are strong enough, you can save. But if you also become drowned, then how you'll save him? So the everything is there. Save yourself, save others. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. First of all save yourself; then try to save others. Or both things can go on simultaneously. The same example. If you want to save somebody who's drowning you must know that I may not be washed away. I have to remain strong; then I can save him." Everyone is presenting himself as the saver, savior. These politicians and these philanthropist, humanitarian, they have taken the slogan, "To serve the humanity..." What is that slogan? "Is to serve God?"

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Suppose I am a very big business magnate. Next life, if I am going to become a dog—according to my karma, the nature's law will act—then what is benefit? One day before, Indira Gandhi was so important. Next day I'll maybe(?) nowhere, finished. Nobody knows where is Indira Gandhi. Just twenty-four hours she was most prominent woman. And after twenty-four hours nobody cares to look at her. This nature's law, how you can check? This is going on. Any moment, anything can be changed by the laws of nature. So India's importance is there. They know the law. Therefore so long the body, full of intelligence, human body, is there, they'll utilize it very... That is life, not to be carried away by the waves of nature. This is India's duty. So we want to make our institution at least a place for understanding this knowledge. It doesn't matter only a few persons may understand. That is sufficient. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārāḥ sahasraśaḥ: "If you keep one moon in the sky, that is sufficient for light. What is the use of millions of stars?" Modern education, they are creating twinkling stars, millions. All useless for light. No light. And our Vedic civilization is: "Create one moon. That's all." That is sufficient. We respect, therefore, ācāryas. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, not the so-called voted leaders. We don't care for them. What is their value? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). You say, "Oh, they are being liked, eulogized, by so many hundreds and thousands," but what these hundreds and thousands of people are? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. They're kept in ignorance like dogs, hogs, camels and asses. This propaganda should go on by the ISKCON movement. Bombay is the nicest place. Invite them. Convince them. We have got answers for everyone, however big scientist, big philosopher, big politician. Bhāgavata has answered everyone. How selected animals' name has been given. This is Bhāgavata. How the comparison is perfect. I have tried to explain why a particular animal has been selected.

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I don't think hair is required. Nowadays many gentlemen shaven.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shaved head.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Many gentlemen. I have seen many Russian scholars and politicians, they shave clean.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There is a very big American actor who always has a shaved head.

Prabhupāda: That is now fashion, shaved head. But if you think it is impediment, you can have hair.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In India it is all right, but in the West, especially in the United States...

Prabhupāda: Then you keep hair. I have no objection. That should not be an impediment. Whichever you... But tilaka is objectionable?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, no. Tilaka we can always have.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Then it is all right. You belong to Hare Kṛṣṇa. That should be there. That cannot be...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I would use tilaka many times when I was doing my thesis, also like this, but in giving lectures, especially amongst the scientists, sometimes if we come with head shaved, sometimes they think it very strange. We can do it when...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Don't disturb them, that "These are strange people." No, we don't want that. But we must have our position. Tilaka is our position. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's stricture. You will not see one face if there is no tilaka. He used to say it is cremation ground. Yes, without tilaka. Pasanta mukha.(?) Tilaka must be there. And so far dress is concerned, you can dress up to the taste of the modern people. So what is your breakfast time here?

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation)

Dr. Sharma: Actually, we never had the geographical conception of the nation. Only conception was the religious conception. Wherever Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, that is India. That has been the concept through all the centuries, until 1947, you know, and then we had these boundaries. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa is worshiped in north, He is worshiped in south, He is worshiped in east, He is worshiped in west, and there are temples marking that plain. And that's what we call India. And that has been throughout the centuries. Not the geographical boundaries they have given now to India. Really you can make out the definition of India, where Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, that is India. And that can be anywhere now, including worship in the United States or in Canada. Because He was the man, He was our Lord, He came here. He gave us the religion, He gave us the life, He gave us this... So now these politicians are taking that concept away, and they are changing the consciousness of the whole nation now. They want to change the consciousness. They want to make them materialistic. They want to make them greedy. They want to...

Prabhupāda: And what materialistic advancement they have done?

Dr. Sharma: No thing.

Prabhupāda: Now in our childhood, when we were ten-years-old boy, my father used to purchase high kilo saraṣera tela, for eight annas. Can these rascals do to that standard? Eight annas, first-class Kanpur mustard oil. Now that oil... Not that quality oil, still, they are being sold thirteen rupees per kilo, instead of three annas.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Koshi: Taught to receive, not to give.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have been taught to become group of dogs and crows. That's all. These political party.

Mr. Koshi: You are against politicians.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not against, neither for. But these things will go on. This is going on since the creation, but that will not help. There have been, in other countries there has been Napoleon, there has been Hitler, there has been Mussolini, there has been Churchill. In India also we had many leaders like Gandhi and others. So what contribution they made? People are suffering.

Mr. Koshi: But you yourself were involved in some of the movements.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not movement, it is knowledge. It is not artificial movement. It is knowledge, real knowledge, that you are not this body. You are not this machine. It is knowledge. It is meant for everyone. But you take an artificial movement. It is not. It is knowledge. And it is your duty to give knowledge to the people. If you have got any knowledge... All scientists do like that. It is not movement. When a scientist goes all over the world, he gives about his discovery, it is not movement. It is scientific knowledge. Movement is you create something and make your followers. That is movement. It is not like that. It is scientific knowledge that you are not this body. Dehino 'smin yathā. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are fortunate, they will accept it. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Find out this verse. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, but we are neglecting. Allah... We are getting photograph(?) in Bhagavad-gītā. This is... Actually understand Bhagavad-gītā and distribute the knowledge. That is our aim.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the airports now they are making special security, especially to check any politicians who might try to escape the country, due to being investigated.

Guest (1): Their passports are also taken away. That's what I have heard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were, in themselves, the most exalted, and now they are treated as criminals.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Times of India you saw that starlight or side light or something, about Indira Gandhi. In today's paper, Indira Gandhi had gone to a ten-day function at one of the African embassies. She went with her daughter-in-law, and nobody even noticed her. Only fifteen minutes after she left the function did the host realize that Indira Gandhi had come. She went to a party, she stayed there, and she left and the host did not know that "Indira Gandhi is here." That shows how material nature changes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It also shows that actually she had no value, because one who is actually great doesn't lose his value simply by losing an election.

Prabhupāda: Vidvān sarvatra pūjyate. Vidvatāṁ ca nṛpatyāṁ ca naiva tulyaṁ kadācana.(?) She is not a learned man. She occupied the royal seat. That honor was so long there, the royal seat. And who will be honor her?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Her rule was "Might makes right."

Prabhupāda: And anyone who is vidvān, then that will be honored everywhere.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They do not know that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They spend three thousand, one hundred crores on the harijanas. Can you imagine if they had given you that money Śrīla Prabhupāda, what you could have done with it.

Bhakti-caru: Over ninety percent of the money has gone to the damn politicians.

Prabhupāda: Now harijana, he has..., Gandhi has degraded the name of harijana to such a position that if somebody comes and if he says, "I am harijana," immediately we shall hate him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We hate him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we know there is camar bhangi, he has changed the name, "harijana."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is another thing that we should point out in our letter. That what is the actual meaning of harijana? "One who serves Hari, or Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: One who has been elevated to the position of associate of Hari. That has to be done. Then it will be first class. That we can do. Nobody can do.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now so many charges are coming against her. (pause) Hm? She and her son are the destiny of India? A woman and a debauch? They can do whatever they like. It's a farce condition. That so-called democracy is nonsense demoncracy. And by this demoncracy, it can be done. A demon may be, if he can simply secure votes. What is the position? Without any training Formerly the destiny was by rājarṣi. Royal power, but ṛṣi, saintly person. See the character of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Parīkṣit, Ambarīṣa. (aside:) At least, you cover some way or other with some cloth. Find out some cloth or towel, and cover it. Yes. All rogues, they are political leaders. Political leader means rogue. Nowadays, these... Here is so-called religious leader, Sai Baba, another rogue. This is Kali-yuga. (Hindi) There is no good man politician. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Sumanda-matayaḥ. They have got a conception which is very, very bad, conception of religion, social, political. All condemned.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But first of all we must know also what is the position. If we also become enamored by the so-called scientists, politicians, philosophers, then we cannot preach. We must definitely be convinced that they're all rascals. As a gentleman, I can give him some respect. That is another thing. But he's a rascal. You must know that "I am talking with a rascal number one." So I... He cannot deviate me from my position. But I can talk in a nice way, gentlemanly. That is another thing. That is courtesy. But I know that these rascals, number fools, number one fools, they have no idea. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). In this way they are rotting within this universe. Kabhu svarge kabhu martye narake ḍubāya. Sometimes by puṇya they are in the higher planetary system, some powerful lokas(?). Sometimes fish, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog and cat. This is going on. Kṛṣṇa says. Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani, botheration. Then there is... We have got this... Any intelligent person gets the Bhagavad-gītā. The rascals are reading Bhagavad-gītā, do not understand a line even. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They do not question even. And after the destruction, body, I am not annihilated. Then where I am going? What is my next life? Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not die. The body is changed. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). So everything is clearly said. They do not inquire even that "After changing this body or change dress, what kind of body or dress I am going to have?" Answer is there. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Everything there. And they are reading Bhagavad-gītā. Gandhi's reading Bhagavad-gītā. Tilak is reading Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And we are prepared to challenge or meet challenge of any scientist, any philosopher, any politician, anyone. It is not dogmatic.

Mr. Rajda: Not dogmatic at all.

Prabhupāda: The same: it is science. And Kṛṣṇa says, begins, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. So who can say anything against this statement? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). But unfortunately our people takes Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being, as... Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhaḥ. If we remain mūḍha, how we can be...? Because Kṛṣṇa comes just like a human being to teach us, we are taking that He's one of us. "Then I can also become Kṛṣṇa." This is going on. For so many thousands of years Kṛṣṇa is being worshiped as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are millions of temples in India for worshiping Kṛṣṇa. He is ordinary man? So many big, big leaders came and gone. Who care for them? Why Kṛṣṇa is being worshiped still? These are the questions.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Immediately kindly help me, that give at least one hundred men permanent residential permission. They are not politicians. They are not interested. They are devotee. Then I can manage this big, big establishment like Bombay, Vṛndāvana.

Mr. Rajda: Now tell me with your men written over all this(?). I will give you immediately.

Prabhupāda: Have you got that, made any list...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I called for the names, so within a short time.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Name is there. So this is the...

Indian (1): First progress thing.

Mr. Rajda: No, no, we'll do this immediately, and even if necessary, I will fight with the government. They have got to do it. Only thing is if you can give me some note, what are the hurdles...

Prabhupāda: Bring some paper. Write it. Immediately begin to do this. They are coming from very rich, respectable family. They have not come here to earn money for exploit India. They have no business to do this. I can guarantee that they will bring money from America and live here—not touch a single paisa of India. Now, suppose there are one hundred Americans, and if I am bringing ten lakhs of rupees per month, then what is the per capita?

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, you pointed that out yesterday when you talked with Mr. Rajda, that it's an open secret. You are not introducing anything new. You are simply giving the instructions of Bhagavad-gītā, but you are not introducing anything on top of those instructions. No interpretation. As it is. That's the whole problem. They are all reading Bhagavad-gītā, these politicians, but none of them as it is.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I said "Who understands this meaning of one line?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They really think that Morarji is a big religious man. They are very happy to think that their prime minister now is very, very religious. They are very pleased to think like that.

Prabhupāda: I said that my disciples rise at 3:30 and worship till 9:30. He said that he rises at 3:30 and three hours for... So I immediately said, "They are engaging twenty-four hours."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we don't engage in politics for the other nineteen hours. Of course, I mean, I never would have said anything, but the fact is that this is not the business of one who is eighty-four years old, to be the prime minister. It is better if he were to take up preaching Bhagavad-gītā. You gave that advice to Gandhi. He could do more good then.

Prabhupāda: They will take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and do their business.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They want to get something from India. So why not give this?

Dr. Sharma: For many years they have been living like frogs in a well, kūpa-stha-maṇḍūka. Of late they are realizing they have got to come out of this. When I was... Many people used to come to me. I used to tell them about Hindu religion and yoga, etcetera. They have an innate interest for this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. People are everywhere good. Simply some politicians, they make them bad.

Dr. Sharma: The top politicians, they come in the way. They stop these things. They had a yoga class institute set up in the Moscow University, and when they came to bhakti-yoga, they realized that spiritualism's involved. So at the earliest they get rid of this.

Prabhupāda: One book is published, what is that religion?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anthology.

Prabhupāda: Anthology. So in that book they have given quotation from my books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. It's just come out.

Prabhupāda: It is very nice.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But if he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he may rise up to that position by endeavor. Then he will fall down. And I have given this example, Nixon and Indira Gandhi. This is factual. To come to take the post of prime minister, to become the president, is not easy job. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, great hardship. Similarly, the Māyāvādīs, they also undergo severe austerities to become one with the Supreme, impersonalists. Any... I have given the... Karmī, jñānī, yogi, politicians, and everyone—everyone has got some aim. Many rich men, they commit suicide. So this is possi... This is the ultimate result of nondevotee. He may rise up by endeavor to certain position as he imagined, "This is the best position." Just like we are also trying to occupy the best position, to become associate of Kṛṣṇa, to live with devotees. We have got also some aim, and the nondevotees, they have also got aim. But the devotees will never fall down, while the nondevotee will fall down. And if devotee circumstantially, by chance, falls down—not like them-he'll be again picked up by Kṛṣṇa. This is the science, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A devotee's position is certain. Now, take for example my position. For ordinary karmī to possess so many properties all over the world and so many other things, money and everything, if karmī had to do it, how much hardship he had to go. And actually they are doing. Is it possible for one's life to acquire so many?

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So good milk, you give little, not at a time much. Half a cup. So I said these political rascals... Just see. Trouble. They don't want democracy. "And we'll by force remain." Where is the democracy? Indira Gandhi was to give like that. Where is democracy? Vote rejected him that his (her) election was invalid. Still, he (she) would call, "Emergency." People of Kali-yuga, unfortunate, they are controlled by these fourth-class, tenth-class men. All unhappy. Nobody is in peace. That is also punishment because they are godless. Nobody will come to hear us, follow us, and they'll be punished by these politicians. They'll corrupt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we were reading today how the wife of Rāvaṇa, when she saw her husband, she was addressing him as "The king of the asuras, how you have given everyone trouble. And now surely your body will be eaten by vultures and you'll go to hell." So Nava-yogendra Mahārāja was commenting that now..., at that time there was only one Rāvaṇa; now the whole world is filled with Rāvaṇas, and they're all going to go to suffer the same fate. Of course, we may be able to give them the opportunity of this movement, reading your books. That may be their only chance.

Prabhupāda: There is no doubt about it. Therefore big, big men, scholars, they are so appreciating: "The scholarship and devotion." Yes. They have marked this.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) So what you will gain from naṣṭa, bhraṣṭa? (Hindi) We shall give pure. Then you see how your country becomes happy. That is real dayā. (Hindi) Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). (Hindi)

bhaktim udasya te vibhoḥ kliśyanti
hi kevala-bodha-labdhaye
teṣāṁ kleśala eva avaśiṣyate
nānyat yathā sthūlaṁ tuṣāvaghaṭṭainam

Bhagavad-gītā is for bhakti. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam: (BG 4.3) "I am speaking to you..." When Kṛṣṇa spoke to Arjuna Bhagavad-gītā to understand, he was not a vedāntī. He was not even a brāhmaṇa. He was not a sannyāsī. So why he was selected? Bhakto 'si. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Without becoming kṛṣṇa-bhakta, what one will understand Bhagavad-gītā? A politician cannot understand. His motive is different. He cannot understand. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī... Bhakta... How to become bhakta? Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Kṛṣṇa says, "By bhakti one can understand." He never said, "By jñāna, karma, yoga..." No. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata... (BG 6.47). Eh? What is that? Antar-ātmanā, śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ sa me yuktatamo... So if you want to organize on that line, then it will be successful. Otherwise it is waste of time. That is real cooperation, that we must accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is and preach as it is. Then people will be happy. Otherwise waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And spoiling the chance of human life. Nature's law will go on. If somebody becomes next life a dog... There is possibility. These political leaders are like that. They are not trained up. Just like these dogs at night, they are very busy. Nobody has appointed them. But he is thinking, "I am in charge of this, watching." As soon as one dog will bark, all they, "Oh, gow! There is some important duty. Come on. Come on." And "Gow! Gow! Gow!" (laughs) And who has appointed him? They, all the politicians, are like that. Nobody likes... "Oh, oh, give me vote. Give me vote. I shall give you this arrangement." And barking amongst themselves, "Gow! Gow! Gow!" Therefore I said that the United Nations is an assembly of barking dogs. Actually that is. They cannot do anything. What they have achieved, the United Nations?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wasting money.

Prabhupāda: And each representative of nation, they're talking day and night, and all, they have got their... There was a Mr. Mellon... And he was speaking, and he was showing. He fainted, and people took him, "Oh, he's such a good representative." And what he did, actually?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He fainted?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So nasty. You come here. (break) Vivekananda, so on, so on, so on, so on... If I had been in political power, I would have killed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hanged.

Prabhupāda: No, hanged. They are not guru. They are not missionaries. They do not know. They have no knowledge. And missionaries? You see? The so-called politicians, philosopher, religionists, rascals, distorting the meaning of Bhagavad-gītā. And yato mata tato patha. And "I like. Whatever I like, I can speak, and that is supported." What is this? Chaotic condition. There is no standard. We are giving the standard, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And Gandhi said, "Oh, how can I stop cow-killing? It is their religion." Just see. Such a rascal. "My religion is to kill others, and it should be supported by the government." Such a foolish man, they are on the government power. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, did he consider that? "So you are killing cow? You must be killed." That's all. Life for life. "It is my religion, sir." "Then get out here! Get out of my kingdom! Perform your religion outside." This is king. This is government. He said like that, Kali. You know?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: "Yes, all right, I don't interfere with your business, but not... You leave my kingdom. Get out."

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Therefore I say, get out from my kingdom. I don't care for your religion or business, but you cannot do within my kingdom." And that is king. If I have to flatter you for vote, "Yes, whatever you like, you can do. Give me vote," is that government?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: I follow this. To accept me as guru I have to flatter you—I don't follow. If you want to hear me, then you become my disciple. Otherwise go to hell. Don't want. Here many big men came. And big men means the businessmen, big... I refused "If you cannot follow the instructions..." When they are in office there is some income. Nanda, he is driven out from office after some time, at least twenty years. Then he was given post. Long time. What he has done? He has taken from Haryana government some crores of rupees and he has made his own statue, fifty thousand. He has made his own statue. (laughs) He appreciates his own activities. This is their politician. Just like our Bon Mahārāja. He has done so. He does not wait for his death. He knows, "After death everyone will forget me. So let my, let me make my own statue, a tīrtha in this āśrama."

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means ignorance, rascals. They are busy with something which is not his business. Then next question will be: then what is his business? If they actually read Bhagavad-gītā, his business is that to find out: "If I am going to change my body, what I am going to be?" Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body, after being finished, this body, I am not dead. I am going to change another body. So is it not my duty? Just like if I go somewhere, you see how that place, how it will be suitable for me, how I shall live there. Is it not duty? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I am not going to die. That, if I leave this compartment, I'm not going to die. I'll accept another compartment. But shall I not see what kind of compartment will be, whether it is better than this or inferior than this? Is it not my duty? That is my real problem. Or the actual problem is that if I am eternal, why I shall change body now and then? This is my problem. And Kṛṣṇa says that "If anyone does not take up My instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, then he does not get Me, and the result is that he'll again turn to this change of body, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartma..." So they are not careful about these things, so what do they understand about Bhagavad-gītā? The real problem they do not touch. And the body will change, and he'll live in India or in America, say, for fifty years. He's busy. That is cats, just like these cats and dogs at night. Nobody has given him charge, but he is thinking "I am in charge of the road. Why this put-put motorcar, you have come here? Go on. Go on. Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" But who has given him charge? But he's starving, and people are throwing stone upon him, but he's thinking "I am in charge of this business. Why at night this car has come?" Dog mentality. Is it not exactly like the dog? He's disturbing all others—"Gow, gow! Gow, gow, gow!"—but he's thinking that "I am in charge." Is it not dog dancing, these politicians, politics? Who cares for you? Gandhi or there, he has gone. Does it mean the world activities stop? Churchill was there. He has gone. Hitler was there.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: This is going on. Therefore this life is preparation for the next life. These are simple truth. But people are in ignorance. They do not know anything. And they're keeping them in ignorance and bluffing them in so many ways. The whole duty, I am going... If I am going to accept another body, then where is the question of my nationalism? If I am eternal... Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), na jāyate na mriyate vā. If I do not take my birth, if I do not die, and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), and I'll have to accept another body, then, so long I have got this body, I may be big politician, big philanthropist, but next life, if I am going to be dog, then where is the value of this prime ministership, big, big...? And where is my nation? Where is my country? Where is my family? So things are going on in ignorance. And they are kept in ignorance. And big, big worship, your... Nānuśocanti. This is going on. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for reforming all these nonsense activities. This is sum and... Everyone's kept in ignorance, and being frustrated, they want to make it zero. Where is zero? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). There is no question of zero. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). But the rascal are thinking, "Make it zero," in gross disappointment. But there is life, just hope for a blissful life, for eternal life. And that is really we want to make. And you want to make it zero? Actually it is not zero. You do not know your ignorance. So this rascaldom is going on, and there are many supporters. What can be done? We are trying to reform the society.
Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: This is marvelous. You give the real thing, and it will act. If you give false things, naṣṭa, so superficially it is (Sanskrit), but if it is spoiled, it will create disease. Our leaders, our politicians, our swamis and yogis, they have spoiled Bhagavad-gītā by misinterpretation. Then what benefit he'll derive? They are spoiling, and they are followers. Now whatever is done is done. You can reform it and again it will be all right. Now call, if there is any question.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Does anyone have any questions they would like to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Indian man (2): Can one be a householder, I mean, with his normal worldly life, and at the same time be a...

Prabhupāda: First of all, what do you mean by householder?

Indian man (2): I mean continue the normal, occupation of one's...

Prabhupāda: Say me. Explain what is householder.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: It is not meant that... Big, big personality were householder. Lord Rāmacandra was householder. Arjuna was householder. Prahlāda Mahārāja was a householder. Janaka Mahārāja was householder. But they were not cats and dogs. So be householder. You do the duty of real householder. Don't become cats and dogs. Then where is human civili...? What is the distinct between cats and dogs and human civilization if you do the same thing? Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. Then you are huma..., not even human being. What is the question of householder? Be householder as it is in the civilized codes, human history, they are... Otherwise refrain. Householder does not mean to satisfy, what is called, itching sensation of the genitals. That is not householder. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). To satisfy the itching sensation, that is not householder. Here is householder. Protect your children from death. Can you do that? That kind of householder, at least, the trees on the street, everywhere... There is no question of becoming householder. The whole Bhagavad-gītā... Arjuna, he was householder. He was politician. So he did not give up anything. Before his hearing Bhagavad-gītā he was the same, a large family, and he was fighting for some material interests. And after hearing Bhagavad-gītā he remained the same, not that he gave up fighting and went to the forest. These things are not required. But he changed his consciousness-kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). And that is required. You remain in any condition of life, but follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection.
Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: And big, big leaders, they are utilizing Bhagavad-gītā for so-called nationalism. Why? There is not a single word as "nationalism." As Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). Where is nationalism? There is no question of nationalism. So the difficulty is they do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gītā, and still, the so-called scholars, philosophers, politicians, they are advertising that "I am student." They do not understand even a line of... This is my challenge. What do you think? They do not understand. Even Gandhi did not understand, not a single line.

Indian man (1): Gandhi did believe in trusteeship theory.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (1): Gandhiji believed in trusteeship theory of Īśopaniṣad.

Prabhupāda: Trusteeship... Trustee... Who will be trustee? Who is trustworthy? All thieves and rogues? Who is trustworthy? Trustee is Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Now, Kṛṣṇa never said, although in Bhagavad-gītā yoga is spoken by Him, He never said that "Because now time has passed away, circumstance different, so I can say you in any way." There is no such foolishness. But these people, they speak Bhagavad-gītā in a new way—more than Kṛṣṇa. These rascals are more than Kṛṣṇa. So we are guided by them. They think of themselves as more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. This is the difficulty in India. (Hindi) Vyāsadeva says, bhagavān uvāca. (Hindi) Unnecessarily if one is proud without any qualification, he's a rascal. (Hindi) Or this is also said there, that bhakto 'si priyo 'si me (BG 4.3). The system of Bhagavad-gītā, it can be understood only by the bhaktas. Otherwise why He should select Arjuna as the perfect audience? Because Arjuna was not a Vedantist. He was gṛhastha, belonging to royal family. He was dealing in politics. So the so-called Vedantists and sannyāsīs, they are supposed to be student of Bhagavad-gītā, but Kṛṣṇa selected him not because he was a Vedantist... He was not even brāhmaṇa. He was kṣatriya, politician, gṛhastha, not Vedantist, ordinary knowledge, but Kṛṣṇa selected him. (aside:) Hm, don't do it.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Bhakta means he must be a servant, sakha or father or conjugal lover. They are bhaktas. There are five rasas. So a bhakta is situated in one of them: śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya... That is Vṛndāvana atmosphere. So bhakta means either of them. Arjuna sākhye. By friendship Arjuna became perfect, by making Kṛṣṇa as friend. Hanumān dāsye. Vajrāṅgajī, Hanumān, he, by serving Lord Rāmacandra, the order... He was not even human being, animal, (indistinct), not very intelligent, but by giving service constantly, he worshiped with love. So as soon as you become a bhakta, you must be related with Kṛṣṇa with some rasa, in some particular position. That is bhakta. So the point is that without becoming a bhakta, nobody can understand bhakta. A politician cannot understand. They simply make their artificial attempt to understand. They'll never understand. It is locked. Just like a bottle of honey. I give you, "Here is a bottle of honey," and if you, "Oh, it is honey. Let me lick up the bottle," so will you get the taste? So similarly, they are licking up the bottle, not inside. Rahasyam uttamam. They have no information. They are licking up bottle: "I am reading Bhagavad-gītā." This is the position. For this reason our country has fallen so much. But it can be revived again. The things are already there. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Kṛṣṇa is there. The instruction is there. If you take it, then it will immediately change the face of the whole world, immediately, without difficulty. But we are so stubborn, doggish, that we don't. We manufacture. This is the... (Hindi) ...yesterday. We are standing against the stubborn, doggish mentality. We have got no difficulty, at the same time, very, very difficult task. No difficulty—if you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no difficulty. But you don't accept—there is great difficulty. In the foreign countries they are not stubborn, doggish. They accept what we say in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore these young men, they have very easily become devotees.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...that why we shall misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa was less intelligent, that He left Bhagavad-gītā to be interpreted by some rascal philosopher or politician? He was not intelligent enough to clear the idea? If Kurukṣetra is meant "body," why you should bring in the name of Kurukṣetra the bodily conception of life? What is this? Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ, māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāḥ (BG 1.1). Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre is still there. Why Kurukṣetra should be interpreted as something else?

Indian man (1): You have cautioned that hither, in this translation.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (1): You have cautioned that hither, to read the Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way. And their purpose is that "Bhagavad-gītā should be utilized for my rascaldom." This is going on. (Hindi) This is our mission. Don't manufacture nonsense. It will never be successful.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "I don't care for you." (Hindi) Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mama māyā. That means he's engaged, she's engaged for beating with shoes. But he cannot understand, although Kṛṣṇa is coming personally to make him understand, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). (Hindi) Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa; everything is finished. So it is up to you, whether you prefer to be beaten by shoes continually or you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That depends on you. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Don't manufacture nonsense things. (Hindi) Rascaldom. "Simply surrender to Me." (Hindi) ...manufacture... (Hindi) ...ism, this ism, that ism, that ism. (Hindi) The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. (Hindi) ...nonviolence... (Hindi) Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). The first word is (Hindi). And you want to prove it, nonviolence. (Hindi) ...rascaldom... (Hindi) The first word is used, yuyutsavaḥ. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) Violence required to keep the society in order. (Hindi) Who will give protection? Sab scientific. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) "So don't trust woman and politician." This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. And she is both politician and woman. We have got Mahābhārata, there is not a single instance... We had very, very great, qualified women. But they were in charge of state...? Very, very qualified women. You know. Na svatantratām arhati, striyaḥ. For woman there is no independence. The Manu-saṁhitā. They must stay under father, under husband, or under elderly sons. Three stages.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (3): Prabhupāda's judgment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So (laughs) Kṛṣṇa has given him sense that from the ordinary statement he has understood the whole thing, and he has given judgment immediately. I never... This is all Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is everyone's heart, so He has dictated that "You give judgment like this." So he... Otherwise it was impossible. And that is... In many courts... We have been harassed in Australia, many, many, because they are afraid of... Now Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is advancing. The some... One politician has said that "This movement is increasing like epidemic. If we do not check it, within ten years they'll take our government." (laughter) Yes, in America one politician... So actually that is happening. In spite of so much obstacles, we are increasing. Our books are selling. They are advancing. We are getting more devotees. Our movement is not checked. It is... (break) But you do not know. We are dropping from the sky? Our main movement is Europe, America.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: For sterilization?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is practically... And I was surprised how such a abominable falldown came to Indira Gandhi. It is simply Kṛṣṇa's hand. No politician fallen in such a way in the history. Finished business. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān yoniṣu (BG 16.19). It is simply Kṛṣṇa's hand. They are "This party, that party, that..." But to curb down Indira's power, it was simply by Kṛṣṇa directly. Hm. Go on reading. (break) "Don't worry. I am here." This is Kṛṣṇa. A boy, ten years boy, Kṛṣṇa, He was, "Come on," challenging. This is Kṛṣṇa. Go on.

Rāmeśvara: "He then appeared before Ariṣṭāsura." (break)

Prabhupāda: And He went forward still. Still there are demons amongst the (indistinct).

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Politicians.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, his firm words were how he would help us on those days.

Prabhupāda: Where is Girirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's coming back on June 16th.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) That Shriman Narayan said that "You meet me in Delhi between 25th to 30th. I'll be there."

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And that... Here is a fault. To deal with these men... And therefore Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, "Never trust the politician and woman." Viśvāso naiva kartavyaṁ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu. Open it. So where is that Akhila Kṛṣṇa Gosvāmī?

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That "Some way or other, we're keeping some position." And if Samvit kicked him out, then where is his position? That is another problem. This Rādhā-Govinda Mahārāja, what he can do if he's driven away? In this age he cannot have his own institution. And in this age where he'll go? They are... "These politicians, these old men, they cannot do now. So give them some false position, that 'You are president, ācārya.' They will not rebel at least." And as soon as they do something against them, "We shall drive away: 'No, you cannot be president. Another president.' " That's all. They had no love for him, neither he has any love for them. It is simply official. This Samvit dāsa one, Samvit, also not very intelligent. Tīrtha Mahārāja's son, he wants to keep the property in his name and utilize it for his personal... That way... Preaching and preaching and..., they don't care for. And you said that there is some, still some strength amongst themselves.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: British gave liberty about our culture and religion. They never interfered. That was their credit. They knew it. If they interfered with their internal affairs, then they will be lost. That was Queen. She guided them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were expert like that.

Prabhupāda: No, they were very good politician. (pause) I can say, in the British period there was no scarcity, and leniency. I recall the way. Didn't require... And when they like... With three hundred rupees they were so happy. Now you calculate that three hundred rupees means ten thousand. So where is that ten thousand rupees?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, only the wealthier...

Prabhupāda: For children one anna tiffin is sufficient. One anna. (looking at monkeys) You see?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, a whole family of them. This is their feeding place, the garbage can here. They don't come when they see people, though. Around all the holy places I always see a lot of monkeys and cows in India. Is there some reason, special, about... I mean, cows, there's obvious reason, but what about the monkeys? Why are they around the holy places?

Prabhupāda: Because they are fed by the visitors.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. He was rascal speculator. He took the idea from the Vedic literature, and he wanted to take the credit himself, and the different hodgepodge theory, this is... Britishers took the idea from Vedic literature and presented in British way. Britisher wanted that "We are the monopolizers of all scientists, all big men." Sir Isaac Newton, then the, who is that, Darwin, big politicians, Gladstone, everything big-British. They wanted it. "British means all big men. Therefore we must rule over the world." All Lords, Sirs, and this and that... They wanted to prove, "The only big men of the universe, they take birth in England, and therefore we should rule over the world." (laughs) And this was their pledge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For a while they did a pretty good job.

Prabhupāda: No, artificially you can do for a while. Unless it is sound footing, it cannot stay. You can cheat some people for some time..., no, all time. You can cheat some people for all time, and all people for some time, not all people for all time. This is the... That was their business, to cheat some people for all time and cheat all people for some time. But not all people for all time. That is not possible.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But he gets up at four o'clock every morning. He only eats fruits and milk.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He only eats fruits and milk, nothing else. Cāpāṭi and all he doesn't eat. And he boasts that "I gave up sex life." And he reads the Gītā every day. And, of course, he doesn't practice it, but... In some public speeches he has said that we should revive our Indian culture which has been lost.

Prabhupāda: There is little hope.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, these politicians are little worried that if they make something very strict, like if they make it Hindu or something, then they will lose votes from the Christians and the Muslims.

Prabhupāda: That is their difficulty.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So they will...

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. But there must be some ideas.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. (pause)

Prabhupāda: Now let us go inside. (end)

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is required. But it will be a failure unless they are taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That... Gandhi's failure was there. He did not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because the material civilization means pravṛtti-mārga, and spiritual civilization nivṛtti-mārga. Pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalām. So pravṛtti... Suppose he is in the village. He has to work with plow. And in the city, Goodyear Tire Company offering him twenty rupees per day. So he'll see that "What is the use of working with this plow? Let me go to Goodyear Tire." Then here the business will be finished. That is the position of India. So much land is lying vacant because there is no worker, and all the rascals have gone to New Delhi or big cities. And overpopulation? "Give them sterilization." Here there is no men to work and they're sterilization... How the leaders... And who is leader? Another debauch number one, Gandhi, Mrs.... And she has produced a Sanjay Gandhi. Very precarious si... So there will be no scarcity of simple living and eating. We shall give nice food, milk, and place. So bring student and teach them. Then gradually increase. They will preach throughout the whole world. The defect of the society, modern—the rascals are worshiped. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given all in his moral instructions. He said, mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante: "Where rascals are not worshiped..." But at the present moment rascals are worshiped. And he says. He was experienced politician. He said, mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam. "In the society where rascals are not worshiped and food grains are properly stocked..." Mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam... Another... Dampatyo kalaho nāsti: "And where there is no quarrel between husband and wife," tatra śrīḥ svayam āgatāḥ, "all fortune will come there automatically." Svayam āgatāḥ. You haven't got to pray, "Mother Lakṣmī, please come to my house." She'll come. Three things wanted. You should not give unnecessarily honor to rascals, and you should keep your food grains very nicely, and don't quarrel, husband and wife. Then you become fortunate. Just see. Check how these instructions are there.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (tape very faint throughout) ...divorce, child-killing or making the children hippies, that all. Or find out some war to destroy them. When it is unmanageable, they declare war: "Engage these rascals." The politicians do that. When they cannot manage, they declare war, because they are not human beings; they are animals, Churchill and Hitler and this... "Start some war and finish this population." Or it may be nature's law. "When there is unnecessary population let there be war, famine, pestilence." That is one theory, Malthus' theory.

Śatadhanya: Whose?

Prabhupāda: Malthus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Malthus.

Prabhupāda: So I don't speak I am authorized. I have studied both ways.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: And even they are convinced of the importance of this movement...

Bhakti-caitanya: Right. Prabhupāda: ...still, they are politicians. You do not expect wonderful thing. Bhakti-caitanya: No, they are always sly. Today they are (indistinct). Tomorrow they will be... Prabhupāda: Viśvāso naiva kartavyaḥ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu: "Never trust politicians and woman." That is the instruction of Cāṇakya. Bhakti-caitanya: Yes, you said many times. Prabhupāda: They will speak something outwardly and do something inwardly. Especially nowadays politicians, they are diplomats. But Mr. Gupta is doing personally. That's all right. Bhakti-caitanya: I got him to engage in the service of Kṛṣṇa very nicely. Prabhupāda: Yes, there is (indistinct). Bhakti-caitanya: He was the first man when we have our... Prabhupāda: What we expect from Vajpayee? First thing, what he has proposed, give us this permanent residency... Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Permanent residency.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are appreciating all over the world.

Bhakti-caitanya: Yeah. No, in India now, when people are appreciating, you are preaching, and when it will catch little fast, then automatically they have to accept it. Sometimes accept the voice of the peoples.

Prabhupāda: That they are already presenting. We want this help. Let us see how the judgment... It is a test. And if there is no sympathy, then who would approve? Because we have to mix with these politicians very carefully. They can do more harm than good.

Bhakti-caitanya: They do that. There was one Indira Gandhi's..., like as a guru, Dhirendra Brahmacari, and now every day news, bad news, are coming in the newspaper, we understand, because he becomes very much close to Indira Gandhi and his son. All his yoga-āśrama in Kashmir... He built up big āśrama, and the government, they were giving him aid, many lakhs rupees, every year. Now this Janata government took over. He had a... They took over the land and everything, and now they are going to send even back here, because he was so much mixed with the politicians.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhakti-caitanya: From there we can see that result.

Prabhupāda: So if we mix with these politicians, very bad. Better not to mix. But sometimes this is very important thing, and we have already presented our case. Let us see how he does it. Everywhere you should be very careful about mixing with the politicians. What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a bottle of rosewater. I asked him to get it from Seth Visanchand. I asked this man, "Seth Visanchand sent this?" The boy who brought it said, "I'll just make inquiry."

Prabhupāda: They are so careful.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm, don't touch politics.

Haṁsadūta: Oh, all right. We should stay clear of the government. They are too dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Cultural... We, our culture and philosophy. To be arrested is not new thing for politicians.

Haṁsadūta: She also said in that speech that in India it's not a shame to be arrested. In India this is not considered something bad. It's acceptable. And it's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Brahmānanda: The governor who came to see you in Bombay, practically his only qualification is that he was arrested. He was in jail for nineteen months. Before, he was a very small man. Now he's a big man simply because he was in jail for nineteen months.

Haṁsadūta: The new prime minister, we met him a few days after he was inaugurated. We gave him Kṛṣṇa book and a nice letter. He doesn't smoke or drink. He's a Buddhist. He seems to be a, relatively speaking, a nice man. But he's quite old. He's also seventy years old. But, Prabhupāda, eventually, our movement practically around the world will attract the attention of the government.

Brahmānanda: They will not like.

Haṁsadūta: They won't like it. Just like Germany, it's actually the government. The people are innocent. But these governments, they can see the danger in Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Bali-mardana: Would you like Haṁsadūta to chant some more?

Prabhupāda: Hm, hm. Yes.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Strong eye, but looking third class. (Bharadvāja laughs)

Bharadvāja: We're also showing that human life means responsibility. Even on an ordinary level we are showing that a man may break a law and he's punished, but a dog, he's not punished for breaking man's law. He may cross the street in the wrong place, he is not punished by the law, but the man is. Animals are walking without clothes, but if a man goes out in the street without clothes, he's arrested. So we are making the point here that man is held responsible for his actions, whereas animal is not. And then we show... The conclusion of this is "Therefore human life has responsibility to engage in the pursuit of knowledge and advancing, not degrading himself." Then we want to show that misuse of this human form of life, or giving up that responsibility, has created a chaos in the world, that the world has become full of madness and fear and pain, and the whole civilization is misguided. We want to show on film, side by side, U.N. politicians barking in U.N. and cats and dogs barking in the street.

Prabhupāda: That is explained by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Māyār bośe, jāccho bese.

Bharadvāja: Khāccho...

Prabhupāda: Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song. Those who have eyes to see, they will see all of them being washed away by the waves of māyā, hābuḍubu.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Citsukhānanda: She's coming now. There's another lady, Mrs. Forkash, and she has been working with Mrs. Forkash, and she's been attending the programs and also organizing for good publicity for the movement all over America. And she's been attending major functions that we do. Like we had a major function with all the important people of Los Angeles—movie stars, directors, politicians—and so she also assisted, and she was preaching, speaking about Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She's becoming a devotee.

Citsukhānanda: Yes, very much.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: She's also connected with that Parents for Kṛṣṇa? There's one parent's group called Parents for Kṛṣṇa?

Citsukhānanda: Parents for Kṛṣṇa, yes. She assists in that Parents for Kṛṣṇa group.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is your magic touch, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Anyone who contacts you becomes a devotee. You're just like the associates of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Whoever saw them...

Prabhupāda: She's already a good lady. Otherwise how she can have such nice son? (laughter)

Page Title:Politicians (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:12 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=144, Let=0
No. of Quotes:144