Prabhupāda: The so-called meditation going on in a class. That is not meditation. Meditation cannot be performed in that way. It must be very solitary place, sacred place, and you have to do it alone. You see? So these facilities are not available at the present age. Besides that, that meditation process will take you a very long time to realize yourself. So meditation is there in our process, but it is a very quick process. What is that? We loudly chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So even if your mind is diverted to some other subject, you will be forced to hear Hare Kṛṣṇa. You have to apply your mind. You see? Either you take it, "Oh, somebody is disturbing," or you are enjoying, you have to, you are forced to turn your mind to this side. And if we go on chanting for a short time, the meditation is always there. And with the dancing, the breathing is also there, but it is a shortcut policy. That policy, the yogic meditation or breathing exercise, samādhi, it is already there in our process. But we don't take in that prescribed way of meditation because that is not possible in this age. It is very difficult. So meditation and breathing exercise is not a part of our program, but it is automatically performed by this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma... That is automatically done. It is so nice process.
Policy (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So not only India, in other countries also they are trying to imitate the economic situation or economic development of other countries, especially of America, but they do not find that in America, although the boys and girls, the younger generation, they are born of rich family, rich nation, they are still confused, and they are also hankering after something better. So the policy followed by India now, that is, to imitate the Western way of life, is not very happy mood. This means they have lost their original culture. And so far Western countries are concerned, I think they have sufficient arrangement for material comforts. Now they can very easily take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because they have no disturbance for material hankering. And I think it is the time for them to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make them perfectly well.
Prabhupāda: There is no conflict at all. The conflict is between persons who are godless, who does not believe in God. Conflict is there. The conflict is not between East and West; the conflict is between the atheists and the theists. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not that we are trying to replace something by Indian method to Christian method or Jewish method. That is not our policy. This is... In one sense, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the post-graduate study of all religions. What is the method of religion? To accept the authority of God. That is the primary principle of every religion, may be Christian religion or Hindu religion or Mohammedan religion. It doesn't matter. But people are becoming godless. That is the problem. They are thinking that "There is no God. Nature is everything." That is their foolishness.
Prabhupāda: Nice if she does not marry, that's nice. Anyone who has got children, he should not marry, I think so. Because marriage means not for sense gratification. Putrāyate kriyate bhāryā, putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. To get nice son, that is the idea of marriage. Not for sense gratification. Those who are after sense gratification, according to Vedic scripture, they are, I mean to say, recommended to go to the prostitute. Therefore in Hindu society, still, there is a prostitute class. They are allowed... They do not allow it within the society. I mean to say, extravagant sex life. Especially spiritual life. Spiritual life means gradually forget sex life. Material life means sex life. In the spiritual world there is no sex life because there is no birth, there is no death. That is stated in Bhāgavata. Although the women are very, very beautiful, many thousand times more beautiful than here... Their stature of body, their everything, youthfulness, everything. But still they are so much engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in chanting the glories, that they are not, I mean to say, influenced by the lust. That is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, in the Vaikuṇṭha. There are women. They also, men and women there is, and they also go by airplane, fly in the sky for trip, and all of them are devotees to Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa associate. So these things are described. So similarly, amongst the gopīs also. So in the spiritual life there is nothing like this sex pleasure. And the more we forget sex life, that means we are advancing in spiritual life. So this should be the attitude, that women, Godsisters, they should be nicely treated so that they may not feel any... After all, they are weaker. That should be our policy.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This is the position of the world. So under the circumstances, our first business is how to awaken people from this illusory condition, that he is thinking, "I am this body," or the most well-being is taking care of this body or bodily relationships. So we have to take out from that illusory condition. So that should be the policy of our Back to Godhead. And the, so far the editors are concerned, they are supposed to know all these conclusions. Now we have got two editors, Hayagrīva and Satsvarūpa. I believe both of you know the conclusion which I am trying to push on within this movement. So you should work cooperatively in such a way that you don't deviate from the policy, and conjointly, consulting together, so that I may be relieved from petty minor things. But if there is some difficulty, I am at your service. Now what is the difficulty at the present moment? (break)
Prabhupāda: Oh, it is done. Gopīs are boycotted.
Satsvarūpa: No, gopīs are not boycotted.
Prabhupāda: The policy should be that the people may not understand gopīs like ordinary girls or like that. You should be careful to present the gopīs. It does not mean that "We shall not utter even the name of gopīs. We have taken vow to boycott the gopīs." No. They are our worshipable devotees. How we can avoid them?
Satsvarūpa: What about writing down "kissing the lips of Kṛṣṇa"?
Prabhupāda: Four pages, that's all. But not more than four pages.
Hayagrīva: There was an excerpt from, I think, Kṛṣṇa Book...
Prabhupāda: No. Whatever is done is done. Now you follow this policy, that one...
Hayagrīva: What about excerpts from your books? Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: Oh, excerpt from my book or my article, the same thing. The same thing. So there is no difference. That is also my writing. And whatever you are writing, that is also my writing. So everything is all right. (laughter)
Hayagrīva: It's all your vibration.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But they should be divided into different names. (laughter) Just like...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if I get time... My time is very limited. So even there is difficulty, let them read over and over and again. Then they will understand. Why should we change it? Let it be presented as Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī has given, and... Then don't give more than one or two pages at a time. Their brain will be puzzled. (laughter) Yes. When Guru Mahārāja was speaking, at least my brain was puzzled. (laughter) Even he would speak in Bengali, it was very difficult to understand. He was speaking from a very, very high platform. But I wanted to hear him. That's all. Even I did not understand it. That he appreciated, (laughs) that "This boy does not go away. He hears." Actually that was my position. In the beginning I could not understand what he was speaking, but I wanted to hear him. That's all. I was very much anxious to hear him. That he marked. And he was kindly pleased on me, that "He wants to hear. He does not go away." That was my policy, that "let me hear. Even I do not understand, let me hear." That's all. Yes. Actually I did not understand in the beginning what he was speaking. So Bhaktisiddhānta's writing is not very easy to understand.
Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, in editing, there are two different policies about using capitals. One is to use as few capitals as possible or to use many capitals, in grammar capitalized, or to use few. So sometimes your Nectar of Devotion has got very few capitals. When Balarāma is referred to as "he," there is no capital. But the other policy is to always put... Kṛṣṇa's Hands, capital H, Kṛṣṇa's Feet, capital F, Kṛṣṇa Who, capital W. Which is...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Don't follow that policy. That will not be very... Then...
Satsvarūpa: The less capitals, the better?
Prabhupāda: No. It is better to make everything sound but slow. We want to create this position of Back to Godhead as very authorized representation of the science of God. In future people may refer to it, so we should very cautiously and very nicely do it. It is very important thing, Back to Godhead. If our movement is going to be recognized as scientific, God consciousness movement, then this Back to Godhead will be referred as authorized scripture. So therefore we have to prepare in such a way, nothing non-conclusive can be introduced in this. That should be our policy. And actually it is the position of Back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: No, no. They must give relief to you. You can give them instruction, but the actual execution should be done... Pradyumna is there. He can also do. But anyone who is expert in management, he should be... Temple management should not be done directly by you. You can give him policy that "You do like this." That's all. Because you have got so many other things to do. Yes. So you create. If there is no expert manager, you create some manager. That is most important thing, to create. To become... (laughs) In our college there was one Mr. Kidd, professor of economics. He was always chastising us. We were student; he was our professor. "Oh, you cannot have independence. You cannot manage it. You cannot manage. You can work just like ass, but if some asses are given under you, you cannot work." He was talking like that.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: A big garden. Yes. That was viceroy's house. Now it is dilapidated. Otherwise, formerly it was very, very nice. Huge palace in India. Lord Collier's policy was to bring one of the princes from England and make him king of India.
Haṁsadūta: King of India.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was his policy. He favored that policy, that Indian people are in favor of monarchy. So introduce this system: one of the royal family's son should come and become king of India. That was good suggestion. If Britishers would have ruled India for the interest of India, making one king from the royal family, it would have been great success. That policy of Lord Collier was very nice.
Haṁsadūta: That never happened.
Prabhupāda: So there was no rebellion. And in every state a king was trained in the same process, guided by committee of learned brāhmaṇa and sages. How perfect this monarchy is. Monarchy... That Lord Collier studied that the Indian people like monarchy. Even these states, the so-called states... Now the Congress government has killed them; otherwise the Britishers were maintaining, necessary, and they were developed. Now see. The Indore was far better before. You can see from the buildings, from the whole city. It was very prosperous city. Still it is going on. So every state, the native prince, the Britishers maintained so many native prince. And because they maintained them, they were friends to the Britishers. They knew the policy, if you create zamindar, landlord. They created this aristocratic class to support them.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is the Gosvāmīs, nidrāhāra-vihāra-vijitau, conquered over sleeping, eating, and mating. Because these three, four things āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithun..., these are material life. The spiritual life means reduction of these things. When it is nil, no more sleeping, no more eating, that is spiritual..., perfection of spiritual life. So we cannot make it nil so long this body is there, but our policy should be like that. Policy should be like that. We shall not eat more, we shall not sleep more, we shall not mate more. Those who are gṛhasthas, they can have sex life only for producing children, that's all, no more. And those who are sannyāsī, brahmacārī, they have no sex life, there is no question of sex life. Sex life is prohibited. But it is a concession for them who cannot live without sex life. That is married life. Otherwise, sex life is not very important thing. Just like there are brahmacārīs, sannyāsīs, they have no sex life.
Prabhupāda: That I tell you, not immediately. But our main business is preaching. Either do it as a gṛhastha or as sannyāsī, it does not matter. This is only formality. The real work is preaching. Just like Rāmānanda Rāya was a gṛhastha and Lord Caitanya was a sannyāsī, but He was taking lesson from Rāmānanda Rāya. This is Caitanya-līlā. He is a sannyāsī and He is God Himself, He is taking lesson from a grhastha who is His disciple. So the real thing is preaching must go on sincerely. This gṛhastha, vānaprastha, these are material regulative principles. Real life is Kṛṣṇa's service. That we have to do, that's all. So whatever position is suitable for you, you accept. You remain as a gṛhastha, remain as sannyāsī, remain as brahmacārī as it becomes suitable for you, but preach. That is the main business. If you lacking in preaching and become a sannyāsī, what is the use of sannyāsa? Better... A gṛhastha is better. Just like I asked Gaurasundara to go to Hawaii. He was just a boy, but he did. Now there is center, nice. So I'm very glad. So you are also doing that. It doesn't matter whether gṛhastha. Karandhara is gṛhastha. But we have to serve Kṛṣṇa very nicely. That is our main criteria. So we have to see in what position I can serve better Kṛṣṇa. That is our policy. Otherwise, either gṛhastha or sannyāsī, there's no difference.
Prabhupāda: He said that.
Guest (2): He said, "If a duṣṭa does that to you, you hit her back."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our policy. Our ātatāyinaḥ, the śastra ātatāyinaḥ. Ātatāyinaḥ means a person who usurps my property.
Guest (2): A tyrant.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest (2): A tyrant, ātatāyinaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Aggressor, aggressor.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They have got experience. (indistinct) as soon as they (indistinct), make it zero, then there is no pains and pleasure. The body, because Buddha philosophy does not give any idea of soul-bodily concept. The body is combination of matter, so dismantle this combination. Just like you have got a skyscraper building, so you have to pay tax. Break it, make it zero, so no tax. This is philosophy. Do you follow? You have got a very big building, so you have to pay tax. To save tax, break the building. No more taxes. No more pains and pleasure. No more anxiety. That is Buddha philosophy. That means these philosophers are called fools and rascal, less intelligent. Would you like this advice, that you have got a big building, just like in London there is a big building, and he has got a policy anyway that he does not allow any tenant. Largest building in London, to save tax.
Prabhupāda: So Rādhā-kuṇḍa Mukerjee, he has supported cow slaughter. He was given a post, made a parliament member first of all. So this poor man, five hundred rupees per month, he accepted. Then he induced that "You take more money, write like this." So if you pay money... British government's whole policy was that if the Indians are kept strict Hindus, it is next to impossible to govern them. So therefore they adopted this policy. They changed the whole policy how the Hindu will think everything mentioned in the śāstra is nonsense. They have trained up, and Nehru is the first-class trainee. Everything mentioned in the śāstra, the Arya-samaj, they also wrote Saptartha (indistinct), so many. And Dr. Radhakrishnan also. All the scholars, they would never mention any śāstra more than once within one thousand years. That means...
Prabhupāda: No. Their policy is that they want to keep the people in that way-rascals and fools—then they'll vote and they'll enjoy the political power. That is their policy. Actually they do not want to see their countrymen elevated good character. They don't want to see. If the people become... Just like the British government in their time, they wanted to give education. Their education means A-B-C-D, half-mediocre, so that the government may be run on. They require clerks, servants, so much, not high education. As soon as there was question of high education, they stopped.
Prabhupāda: No. Their policy is that they want to keep the people in that way-rascals and fools—then they'll vote and they'll enjoy the political power. That is their policy. Actually they do not want to see their countrymen elevated good character. They don't want to see. If the people become... Just like the British government in their time, they wanted to give education. Their education means A-B-C-D, half-mediocre, so that the government may be run on. They require clerks, servants, so much, not high education. As soon as there was question of high education, they stopped. And actually it so happened that as soon as the Indian people became highly educated and they learned the history of the world, they kicked them out. So these people, these rascals, Nixon and company, they want to keep the people in ignorance so that they'll get vote and enjoy. If the people become intelligent brāhmaṇas, then immediately he'll be kicked out. What is his value? He has no value. This is policy. They don't want to see that people become elevated in knowledge. That is not their policy. Therefore, they do not agree. Actually they are seeing that "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they're so nice character, they're religion, God conscious, so if all people become like this, then where we are?" Because as soon as people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, they'll noncooperate with the slaughterhouse, liquor industry, gambling, illicit sex. They will noncooperate. Then the whole plan of civilization will be collapsed.
Prabhupāda: So, how they can (indistinct)? They do not know and do not actually want to see people enlightened. It is not their policy. It is simply make some show. Show means spend another set-up amount, investigation. Their men, the government men, they'll get money, that's all.
Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): Jaya.
Prabhupāda: And finished. Engage some rascal report. This is going on.
Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): Exactly, exactly.
Prabhupāda: Very dangerous.
Prabhupāda: This all Englishmen subscribes.
Sumati Morarjee: Because you know is the policy divide and rule.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that was it. (indistinct) was made.
Sumati Morarjee: Otherwise, nobody will do anything. So, I won't take your time Swamiji.
Prabhupāda: No, you can sit down.
Sumati Morarjee: Because you are tired, oldly. I'm going to preserve this mālā.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: Yes, propaganda. That is the cause of India's cultural falldown. These Britishers simply made propaganda that "Whatever you have got in India, this is all allegory, fiction. These śāstras are nothing. But now you are learning from us England's work in India, that is your real... You are becoming civilized now. Otherwise, you are in the utopia, and all these śāstras, throw it out." Because that was Lord Macauley's policy. Lord Macauley was sent to report how Indians can be governed nicely. So he reported that if you keep the Indians as Indians, you will never be able to govern them, because they are superior. You make propaganda that they are inferior and they will imitate you and then you can... That they did.
Prabhupāda: No. Under the British rule, from the childhood they are subjected to the propaganda. We read one book, small book, by M. Ghose. The subject matter was England's work in India. That was a compulsory reading book in the schools. And in that book, it was simply stated that "we are uncivilized, but since the Britishers have come, we are becoming civilized. "This is the subject matter of that book, "England's work in India." So everything Indian... The Jawaharlal is the typical example—everything Indian is bad. That was his philosophy. Gandhi was trying to get the Indians back to village. His philosophy was that these capitalists, they are exploiting these poor men, so all these poor men, they should go back to village and be satisfied with the village economy, not to come out. Actually that's a very nice program. But as soon as Gandhi died, or he was killed, the whole program was changed-industrialization and attract the poor man and let them live in wretched condition of city life. Gandhi's policy was to make them happy by agriculture in the village, produce their own cloth, not in the mill but in charka.
Prabhupāda: Because his disciples, they had a different program. They wanted politics like the Western countries. They did not want... Just like all the politicians, they do not want anything good for the people. They simply want to make some money for their (indistinct), that's all. This is the whole policy of the modern diplomats and politicians. They do not know, you go to hell. Other way, in your country you see so many young men are frustrated. So what government is doing actually? They are not serious. They have made this policy that catch them and send them, keep the Vietnam going on and kill them, all these useless boys should be killed. That is their policy.
Prabhupāda: That is the Western policy: if you don't like anyone, shoot. So if your fathers and grandfathers they could not make you right, then send them to Vietnam to be killed. This is going on. Suicidal policy. If when a good man becomes too much frustrated, he commits suicide. That is also very current in your country. But the same suicidal policy, these boys, hippies, they could not reform them-kill them, that's all.
Jayatīrtha: If they don't commit suicide, then they begin taking drugs.
Prabhupāda: That is also another suicide.
Jayatīrtha: When I was in Chicago, the one section where the temple is close by, more than sixty percent of the people were heroin addicts in this one section. They were so much degraded. (indistinct conversation) I was reading in the newspaper that the astronauts that are going to the moon, they wanted to take wine with them, so that when they got to the moon they could celebrate their victory.
Prabhupāda: If we organize our Bombay, then we shall regularly teach all the students from the very beginning. And in London also we shall. London, Dallas. So that these students will be transferred. Their parents will be very glad that our students have gone to foreign countries for study. We shall have very, very good sympathy(?). Our only policy will be the students should be taught very nice English for understanding our books.
Gurudāsa: In Bombay rather than Māyāpur?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Gurudāsa: In Bombay rather than...
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: When he is incorrigible. First of all you have to try to correct him and... That is preaching. Our preaching means that people are useless, we have to train them in such a way they may take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our management. But if he is completely incorrigible, then he will be asked to leave. Otherwise it is not our business that as soon as we see something he is doing wrong..., that he must be trained, by our example, by our teaching, by our word, śānta yaṁ cinvanti kutiḥ (?). By word, by example, he should be corrected. If I cannot correct him by my words and example, that is also my (indistinct). Because they are, they are, you cannot expect that everyone has come here, sādhu. It is not that. We collect from ordinary men, but we have to make him sādhu. That is preaching. That is preaching. That you have to do tactfully. Not that because one is incorrigible... After trying all our ways, if he is still incorrigible, then you can ask. Not that for paltry reason he cannot be..., "Get out." That "get out," if you make, then everything has to be "get out." That is not the policy. Policy is first of all to correct him. That is preaching. As far as possible by example, by teaching, by everything.
Śyāmasundara: They wouldn't even let you enter.
Devotee (3): I think that his point, I think we spoke about this in Manila, was that anywhere in the world, in, as a general policy, from what I've experienced is that if one or two people are sent to an area, or are in an area and they are given full authority to try to get that population to engage in bhakti-yoga, engage in this process, that that gradual development with the local people, that that has more effect than...
Śyāmasundara: Yeah, it's more successful.
Devotee (3): ...than if we bring in a big party and try to do a big thing. And then, then the person has to get strong, who's doing it. If I have to go somewhere, then I have to get strong for myself, I have to start from scratch.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah, I know the difficulty they're having, sannyāsīs have here, because many of these devotees think it's more like a tour, vacation, to come to India. They don't have to follow the rules and regulations...
Devotee: Right.
Śyāmasundara: ...they're only here temporarily. They're just passing through. So it's very difficult, I know, but still we have to try to train somehow...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we cannot establish very big establishment. Because they come like a tourist.
Prabhupāda: After sixth year... Yes novelists. So the relationship was very nice. There were... Otherwise, how the Britishers could rule, unless there was obedience. But as soon as they saw now the obedience is going on, the soldiers are leaving our camp and joining the national camp," immediately they decided to leave peacefully. Otherwise, there would be some revolution. At that time, all good relationship will go. Better separate with good relation. This was Attlee's policy, to convince statesmen like Churchill that: "You cannot rule over India any more. Better separate in good relationship."
Prabhupāda: They are simply set of rascals. All people are unhappy there. Unhappy. They cannot speak anything against the government and they have got so many protests to lodge. So many. But they cannot speak. If you speak, immediately he's sent to the concentrated camp. Some... Nobody knows where he has gone. You see the Kruschev, such a big man. Nobody knows where he is. That is their policy. As soon as you are suspicious,... Therefore Lelin... Lelin, Lelin...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Lenin...
Prabhupāda: Not Lenin. Stalin.
Karandhara: Stalin.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But there is none complete. Except Kṛṣṇa. Nobody's complete. Our pro, philosophy is that we have to select if we... That we must have to. Otherwise, there is no life. Just like you scientists, you quote so many leaders, scientific leaders. Without this, there is no life. So... Just like in the Bengali there is a proverb that if I to, if I have to steal and become a thief, why not plunder the government treasury? Why pickpocketing? If I have to be punished as criminal, as thief, let me plunder the government treasury and then let me go to jail. So this is our policy. So if we have to submit to somebody, why not the best and perfect? That is our philosophy. You cannot avoid submission. That is not possible. Who is there who does not submit to anyone?
Prabhupāda: And nora means mortar and what is called, pestle? So it is your śilā nora. I take it and break your teeth. (laughter) So take their, this jugglery of words and break their teeth. That should be the policy. "These molecules and this and that," so many words. You have to simply catch their words, and with their words kill them. That is intelligence. We are saying plainly. You say with these words which is their sona, mortar and pestle, and break their teeth. That's all. Tora śilā tora nora tora bāṇi dāntera gora.(?) This policy should be adopted. Otherwise, we know they are rascals. But if I say, rascal, people will say, "You are not a scientific man, how you can say he is rascal?"
Prabhupāda: "You are not a scientific man, how you can say he is rascal?" "Therefore I am flattering you that otherwise..." You haven't got to convince me, that (he's a) rascal. I know that he is a rascal. Now, because we have to prove that he is a rascal to another rascal, we have to take your help. This is our policy. Otherwise, so far we are concerned, if they go on lecturing for millions of years, we shall kick on their face. You should know he is mistaken. Let the rascal speak whatever he likes. We know the conclusion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in trying to make a house, we need certain materials to build the house.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Materials are already there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So similarly when the living entities, when they come down to the material platform...
Prabhupāda: So how such big men, minister, could accept such position of a mendicant and live...? Now, gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau... So they got a better thing. They dipped into the ocean of the gopīs' ecstasy. They were always thinking of the gopīs' activities with Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau muhur, vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. So unless one gets a better thing, he cannot give up the less important thing. So when, unless one gets that better thing—better humor, better mellow—they cannot give up these material engagements. Therefore, to get that better thing, it is advised that part of your hard labor you offer to Kṛṣṇa. This is called karma-yoga. You remain in your karma, but nirbandha, nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe, be touched with Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and spend at least fifty percent for Kṛṣṇa. Then, gradually, you come to the... Just like the Gosvāmīs came. So this is the policy.
Prabhupāda: That, that... Gandhi wanted to solve it, but you rejected. Gandhi wanted it to... Village organization. He started that Wardha Ashram. But you have rejected. What Gandhi can do? That was good proposal—to remain satisfied in one's own place. That was Gandhi's proposal. That "Don't go to the city, town, for so-called better advantage of life. Remain in your own home, produce your food, and be satisfied there." That was Gandhi's policy. The economic problem he wanted to solve by keeping cows, by agriculture, by spinning thread. "You want food, shelter and cloth? Produce here, and remain here. Don't be allured by the capitalists and go to cities and engage in industries." But Jawaharlal Nehru wanted, overnight, to Americanize the whole India. That is the folly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You can defend your theory but that will not help purification of the society. That will not help. Take it for granted. You can make so many theories but if you remain impure, if you are not God conscious, all these theories will be useless. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathe... (SB 5.18.12). This is simply mental speculation. Mano-rathena, hovering on the mental plane, you can jump from this to that, but that will not solve the problem. Mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ. So we do not act on mental speculation. It may be our credit or discredit. That is different thing. We simply follow the standard policy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, how to become a brāhmaṇa, how to become a kṣatriya, how to become a vaiśya, how to become a śūdra, or how to remain less important than the śūdras. The societies must be divided in different divisions.
Prabhupāda: His name was Gopāla Banh. Gopāla Banh ...And there was a king, Kṛṣṇacandra. So the kings would relax by joking words by the jokers. That was system formerly. So Gopāla Banh was constructing a house. So the king advised another friend that: "If you go to his new house and evacuate..." Because the house is not yet opened, not yet established, "Then I'll give you one thousand rupees." So this man said: "Yes, I'll go and do it." So he was, he came to Gopāla Banh's house and began to say: "Gopāla Banh! Oh! I am called by nature. Kindly show me where is your privy. I have to pass." So he could understand that: "Why this man has come here to evacuate?" So he: "Yes, yes. Come in, come in, come in." So he opened the new lavatory and brought a big stick. So he said: "Why you have brought the stick?" So he said: "Yes, you can pass, you can pass stool, but if you urine one drop, I'll kill you." So "How it is possible?" "If it is not possible, I cannot allow." So these, these foolish scientific men, "You can speak, but if you use microphone, then I'll kill you." Yes. The Gopāla Banh's policy. They would not say: "Not allow." But in a different way. (break) For political diplomacy. Not directly: "No." But creating such position, it is not. You are chanting also? Sixteen rounds? Eh?
Harry: They will all say, "What you've said is a load of old hooey." You see. And this will be that.
Śyāmasundara: The policy will be decided by them, more or less, won't it? Like how everyone should regard us, or...?
Harry: Well, no...
Guest: What he's saying...
Harry: No, no, no. You're getting the wrong idea. You're getting the wrong idea. No, you're getting the wrong idea. No you're getting, you're gonna get the wrong idea. First of all, you've got your principles, you've got your independence. Same as I've got mine. Right? It is your place. This is your home. If I don't like the way you live, that's... I don't have to... I can either shut my eyes to it, but I don't have to turn away from you. Same as you may not like the way I live.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, you cannot satisfy...
Harry: You cannot satisfy everyone.
Revatīnandana: No, but about our external behavior...
Prabhupāda: That's not. We cannot change our policy.
Harry: No.
Revatīnandana: No. About our external behavior, things that they are finding bothersome... Like we are chanting loudly on the street or in the doctor's office.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is...
Prabhupāda: No...
Ambassador: Because we have got to be... We should not be misunderstood. As a government, we should not take too strong a policy about any particular religion, even though it is the religion of the majority of the people.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. It is the duty of the government... Secular state means neutral to any kind of religion. But it is the duty of government to see that people are religious. Not that "Because government is secular, let the people go to hell."
Ambassador: No, that's true.
Prabhupāda: "In association with pure devotees." So if you are karmīs, then where is the..., What is the value of this association? Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means assembly, discussion. Bodhayantaḥ parasparam, tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca. If you are not interested in association, discussion, then you are finished. So... karmīs, they are fools and rascals. When you have got this center, it is not that you should be engaged from morning till you go to bed for sense gratification. That is not life. That is karmī's life. You have no time for sat-saṅga, for association. You cannot make any progress by this sort of karmī's life. We have to work for organization, but not that whole day and night engaged and no sat-saṅga. That is a misguided policy, and it will spoil the whole structure. In Los Angeles, they regularly assemble during ārati and class. If this regulative principle is lost, then you are karmīs. They must come back by six o'clock, suspending all other duties, and assemble by seven o'clock. Joint mess program is not good.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we forbid to take to the karmī's life. Because at the time of death, if he remains a karmī, then he'll have to take birth as a karmī. That is the risk. So this regulated life, holding class, chanting, that will not make us fall down. That is essential. It is essential, regulate, to follow the regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds, holding class. You can do anything, but this will keep us alive to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. If you neglect that, then that is very risky. Even if you get next life birth in a rich man's family, that is not guarantee. Because generally, rich man's sons, they go astray. They get money for nothing and they want to squander it. And material world, if you have got money, so many bad associates will come and help you to squander your money and spoil your life. Because you have got money, then so many friends will come. As soon as you have no money, nobody will come. Even your wife, children will not come. Therefore hariṣye tad dhanaṁ śanaiḥ. Kṛṣṇa, first of all, takes away the money, makes him poor so that everyone will neglect him, and because he's Kṛṣṇa conscious, he'll take Kṛṣṇa, "Sir, I have no other alternative. Please give me protection." That is also another Kṛṣṇa's policy, special favor, that "This man wanted Me. Now he's going astray. All right. That's all right. Take everything of his..."
Prabhupāda: Topless, bottomless. That is going on. It is a regular policy that girls may remain unmarried, and the drunkards and the meat-eaters may take advantage of the prostitution. This is the policy. They have no sympathy. So many hundreds and thousands of innocent girls, they're like children. And they're exposed to prostitution. They have no shelter. Now these girls who are with us, they're feeling some shelter, you see? That we are giving some shelter. Everything should be reformed, political, social, and be, you American nation—you're favored nation, that I am always speaking; you should utilize the favor of God and be yourself perfect—and be leader of the whole world. Anyone who is not believer in God, he should be punished. Because he's animal. He is animal, and he is posing himself as human being. Cheater.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's all. This kind of election is rascal election. It has no meaning. Therefore the public must know whom to elect and how to elect. That should be our propaganda. Because nowadays it is democratic government, teach people how to select the real leader. Real leader means who does not commit mistake, who is not illusioned, who does not cheat and who has no imperfect senses, who has, or, other words, one who has got perfect senses. So if you say, "How it is possible for the conditioned soul?" "Yes, it is possible if you follow the perfect." Just like we are doing. We are following Kṛṣṇa. He does not commit mistake, He is not illusioned, His senses are not imperfect, and He does not cheat. We are following. Therefore, although we are imperfect, because we are following the perfect, our proposition is perfect. A child may be illiterate, but when he's taught, "Write A like this," and he follows that, he becomes literate. This is the policy.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So you simply show the card, you get the goods. So to exchange, it has become very cheap. So cheaply you can purchase. Therefore cheaply you can purchase sinful things also. The people are becoming sinful. The modern economy is, "Engage people in hard working to produce, and by artificial cheating, secure the goods, commodities." This is modern economy. So a worker is getting three thousand dollar per month, but he is getting paper. But he is thinking that "I am getting money." He is giving his labor, and things are being produced. This is the policy. "Cheat him. Without giving money, give him paper, and get his labor, and produce goods." This is modern economy. Is it not? A laborer, a worker, is given high salary, high wages. So what he is getting? It is paper. And he is very enthusiastic to give his labor. So production is more.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That Chaganlal this, I pay him extra eighty-five thousand. That is also black. No more white. So the black money was paid in this way, that the money was counted and it was put in a handbag, and it was locked by him. So the key was with him, and the bag was with me. As soon as court accepted the agreement, then I handed over, "Take this bag." Then again this Ratna Parik, he first of all proposed twenty thousand to sell that house. Then when I went there, he knew that he's settling at any cost, he said, "Now that twenty thousand was cost formerly. Now things have gone very high, I cannot sell." So he knows that we are eager to purchase. Then I said, "Then what do you want to do?" "Now I want thirty thousand." "All right, yes. Take it." I did not argue. In this way I settled up. And our Girirāja's father appreciated that "It is better a bad settlement than to prolong the case." So I took this policy.
Śyāmasundara: Elizabeth, in England, she's got a..., what she calls a "think-tank" or a board of advisors who meet and advise her on different policies.
Prabhupāda: Privy council.
Śyāmasundara: Something like that. It's called a "think-tank". She's named it. It's presided over by Lord, Lord Goodman.
Prabhupāda: No, no. The thing is, unless the people are Kṛṣṇa conscious, either this board or that board, that will not help. First of all, people should know what is the aim of life, what is culture, how the human activity should be directed. The people should know first of all this. Otherwise, changing from frying pan to the fire, it is useless. That is going on. That change, revolution, is going on. Just like the Russian people, they changed the Czarist government into communist government, revolution, but still, they're unhappy.
Prabhupāda: Just like we do not want money. But they are having money by so many ways. So we take their money and construct a temple. We can sit down here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We don't require that temple. But these rascals are accumulating money for wine and women. Take their money, some way or other, and builds a temple. And invite them, "Come and see." Give them prasādam. This is our policy. We are not constructing big, big buildings and temples for our convenience. For their convenience. This is sannyāsī.
Viṣṇujana: So there should always be programs in the temples for their welfare, not...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...disciple has read it that from government side there is an article that in Iranian country they want meat, so all these skinny cows should be killed and meat should be exported so that you can get oil economically. So one should not think of this religious sentiment. They should be practical. They should not object. Government is going to open many slaughterhouse to get oil, and kill these loitering, mischief loitering cows, no food. Like that. So government policy is that religious (indistinct) is an opiate of the (indistinct). It is a sentiment. It has no value. That is government conclusion. So therefore their decision is not to encourage these temples and this bhajana. To their point of view, it is useless. So indirectly or directly, they will patronize this. So under the circumstances, we have to make vigorous propaganda, public opinion. You see?
Prabhupāda: This is the consideration. By policy if he could save his wife, that first. He was following like that...
Girirāja: " 'If in the future I get a child who can kill Kaṁsa, just as Kaṁsa is thinking, then both Devakī and the child will be saved, because the law of providence is inconceivable. But now someway or other let me save the life of Devakī.' " (break)
Prabhupāda: ...jumps. In the village also there is experience, when there is fire, it jumps over another house, leaving one house in the middle.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is coming from Europe. Jaya. He's also. Never mentioned. The only policy is how to kill Kṛṣṇa.
Italian Man (4): These important writers who have been read throughout Europe, France and England, who has no importance for the moment, they have never tried to give a (sic:) lifely idea of Kṛṣṇa, the pastimes and the youthfulness, and the liveliness of this is not given. And they will take... Yes, that's it. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Here is a foreign reader. He says.
Indian Man (1): Which book you have read?
Italian Man (4): Well, I have read every book that can be available.
Prabhupāda: So our policy is that if you want to construct, if you have got the tendency, so you construct for Kṛṣṇa. That will be service. Construct a temple for Kṛṣṇa. So that service will be taken into account. Similarly, when we use this motorcar or aeroplane, so in the same purpose... Now they have done this, let it be engaged in Kṛṣṇa conscious service. So one who has manufactured it, he will be benefited, and others will be benefited.
Girirāja: "After observing such wonderful happenings, Nanda Mahārāja began to think of the words of Vasudeva again and again." (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes, so that others may hear. (break) ...you simply present the card anywhere—you get things. You don't require to pay. Then your bills will be paid by the bank. This is the system. (break) ...Bank of American card, in any American, bank of America, I can get one hundred to five hundred dollars immediately. I have got that card. (break) ...the respectable customers... Yes. (break) ...money, then you can squander it, and that is the idea. And you more spend money; then they manufacture consumer goods. That is the policy. (break) ...ṣad says, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: (ISO 1) "Don't use anything more than what is allotted to you." That's all. But they are creating artificial demand, and the demand is being paid for by artificial paper. The government is issuing: "This is five hundred pounds or five hundred rupees," but it is paper only. Actually it is cheating. But we are satisfied. (break) ...said, "In God we trust." That's all. "In God we trust." What is that?
Prabhupāda: For nothing. No, no, that is not possible. These are for the karmīs, bodily concept of life. If government has got so many hospitals, what is the use of opening a teeny hospital by us? Vivekananda policy—to collect money by school and hospital. So you can tell him that "At the present moment, we are concerned about the sanction of the building and temple. So when the building is there, then we can consider, not at the present moment. We require money. We collect for this purpose. We cannot divert attention for medicine and other things."
Prabhupāda: Especially Jinnah. The people are suffering. And the Britishers made partition in such a way that they will remain continually in war because everyone wants the necessities of life. The foodstuff is in Pakistan, and the industry is in India. So the Pakistan will suffer for want of industry, and India will suffer for want of food. This is British plan for partition. They had no business to divide the country, but they wanted to do it as a parting kick, that "You want independence. You will have independence, but you will remain perpetually in war." That was British policy. None of them are benefiting. Occasionally they are fighting and losing so much money and men, that's all, a political game. Similarly, Germany is divided. Ireland is divided. This is going on. People are fighting, fighting, fighting. Leaders should be so sober and honest that the people should live peacefully, without any anxiety, without any want.
Prabhupāda: Suppose one man earns ten rupees a day, and if he has to purchase ten rupees simply rice for the family, ten..., what for others? Then he becomes dishonest. He wants to earn money by taking bribe in his own capacity. So bribing has become a custom. Anywhere you go, unless you bribe, you cannot get release. And they say that "Whatever salary we are getting, that is not sufficient. Our extra earning is by taking bribe." And now in the Western countries also the difficulty is arising. I do not know whether you are already, I mean to say, aware that so many boys, they are becoming hippies. They are reluctant to do anything. That is a very dangerous sign. If you... If unemployment, no engagement, that is not good for the country. Everyone should be employed. Everyone should be engaged in some service. That should be the policy of the government. And everyone should be happy, without any anxiety. That is good government. So many people unemployed, doing nothing, producing nothing. Is it not a problem?
Prabhupāda: That is fall consciousness. Prahlāda Mahārāja said: "immediately..." Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān (SB 7.6.1). No waste after. Our policy is that. Therefore we have opened Dallas, that immediately, from the very beginning of life let them understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda if the devotee is fearless, how is it that Prahlāda was expressing his fearfulness of material nature?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Yogeśvara: If the devotee is fearless, how is it Prahlāda was expressing his fearfulness of the material nature?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Humble approach for giving a slap, (chuckles) that "You forget everything, what you have learned." First of all, this is the first condition. He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrād caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. We can go this way. This is our business. We know they are all rascals, but they are thinking that "We know so many things. We are learned scholars." So humbly approach them and flatter him that "You are so nice man, such a learned scholar." Just like a child is flattered, "My dear boy, you are such a nice boy. You take these lozenges and return me the hundred dollar note. Don't spoil it. You are such a good boy, yes." This is our... Therefore to approach these rascals we have to learn tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. That is the preaching method. Everyone is puffed up. Even most insignificant man, he is also puffed up: "Oh, I am so rich man, I know everything. I have got so much bank balance. These poor fellows, they cannot earn livelihood; therefore they have become Vaiṣṇavas." This is their policy. (break) You immediately print 100,000, that "Scientific Basis."
Prabhupāda: Not only one life, but millions of life, you will not be able to know—unless you change your policy.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): What is the value of the transcendence?
Prabhupāda: Because you are transcendence. You are actually seeking transcendence because you are transcendence.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says that because he doesn't know what the transcendence is, there's no value for him. It's only a name. He doesn't know why to look for it.
Hṛdayānanda: ...policy towards the problem of overpopulation and food shortage in the world now when the world leaders are not willing to do anything? What is our policy towards these problems?
Prabhupāda: Produce food. But you are producing bolts and nuts. You eat them. Motor tire, you are producing motor tire, bolts and nuts. You eat it. (Hṛdayānanda translates into Spanish) (laughter) The energy is spoiled, creating problem. Everyone is engaged in manufacturing motor parts.
Guest: (Hṛdayānanda translates) He's saying that he himself is involved with political leaders, and he said he's found that they're completely unwilling. They don't want to hear anything about the solution, and they're completely stuck to their own way. So what can ISKCON do...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said that "I am in everyone's heart." Sarvasya. Sarvasya ca aham hṛdi. Hṛdi means the heart. Sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am there." So He is witnessing everything. So Britishers would have been... They were accepted by the Indians very nicely. People liked, because after the Mohammedan period, when the Britishers came, they did something which was very, very nice for the Indians, and the Indians, they liked them very much. Later on, they became too much greedy. For their own men they wanted to sacrifice everything Indian. So that Jalianwala-bagh. Then the Gandhi came and took this vow that "The Britishers must go, quit India." So Britishers got a very good opportunity for world unity under British Empire. But their only policy was that to exploit others and enrich London. That was their bad policy, yes. They should have ruled for the benefit of the people. Then British rule was very nice.
Prabhupāda: Cannery? Anyway, so when they boil this onion, up to ten miles the good smell spread. (laughter) You see? And the whole atmosphere of Vṛndāvana is spoiled. Similarly, they are trying to refine oil, and the refuse will be thrown in the Yamunā. So the river Yamunā will be spoiled. Nobody will go to take bath. This is Indian government's policy. They think that this so-called spiritual fanaticism of India is the cause of India's material degradation. So this must be killed. Like the Russians.
Ambassador: Um hm. I know they think that sometimes. Even here there are people who think that.
Prabhupāda: Oh, they are thinking like that? But I heard that the king is very pious.
Prabhupāda: That is finished, I think. Their propaganda is already finished. Nobody cares for them. How they are...? You can cheat all people for some time, and some people for all time, (laughter) but not all people for all time. That is not possible. This is their policy. Some fruits are there?
Devotee: Yes, Prabhupāda. Some juice also.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Shall we make some fresh juice?
Prabhupāda: No, no. That's all right.
Prabhupāda: Now, so far the... Just like in Germany. They unnecessarily take the money while there is creditor, printer. There was no need of keeping money. Go on paying them. That was my policy. I instructed Karandhara that whenever there is collection, go to pay. That arrangement I made with Dai Nippon, that "I shall go on paying. You don't ask me." So he never asked me. You know that.
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: As soon as there is collection, I paid him: "And you go on printing these books." This should be the policy.
Atreya Ṛṣi: This is very important that we understand. This is not common in the karmī world, that Śrīla Prabhupāda does not like credit or playing with money and saving it or something... You have a debt; you pay it; you don't create debt. Everything is just very honest and very flowing. This I have to learn myself because this is not the way the business world is, although I do a lot of business. And we all have to see that this policy is followed.
Prabhupāda: This complaint from the members is not at all good. If somebody becomes envious, he can file a suit that "These men have collected money from me, eh, but not supplied books."
Jayatīrtha: They sign a document we also sign.
Prabhupāda: Gold. So have you created gold? How is your money? The gold is already there. You have stolen. You are thief. You are not laborer, but you are rascal, thief. You'll be punished for this policy. Is gold your property?
Devotee (1): But they say that if the whole world follows our example, then the society will be finished.
Prabhupāda: Nobody follows. We do not follow... There are so many... Why they are struggle? Why they struggle? Why do you fight? Because you are all thieves—you want to steal God's gold-therefore you fight. Why do you fight? Why you declare war from one nation to another? Because you are all thieves and you want to steal God's gold. Therefore there is fight.
Prabhupāda: Americans want this place to fight with the Russians. So if American comes directly in India, that "We want to fight," then India would not agree. Therefore they're keeping with these foolish rascals, Pakistan. And they're insulting. They're... Not insulting. They're naturally enemy of... not to let them... The Vietnam and everything, Korea, all these things. Not to allow the communists to become very powerful. That is American political policy is going on. And the presidents may change, but the national policy cannot be changed. Therefore they want fighting between Pakistan and India. So Russia... Actually that happened. Russia will come to the help of India. That arrangement is already there with Indira Gandhi. Naturally they'll come to help Pakistan. And then between the big two.
Prabhupāda: The Americans also said: "Yes." So they got American planes, American... to crush down this Bangladesh. And the Bangladesh means Indian soldiers. So later on it was discovered. So Pakistan attacked directly India. That was to go on, increase. But when the Americans were helping, these Pakistani, the Russians also came. So it was going to be a, the same, Third World War, immediately. So Americans considered something, that: "Let us take some time." Therefore the war was stopped. Otherwise it was already started. That policy is going on.
Devotee (1): There's been no change. Just...
Prabhupāda: Therefore Indian government does not like you Americans.
Prabhupāda: Yes, buffalos. Cow is very important animal. Therefore it is recommended to protect it. From social benefit point of view, it is essential that cow should be protected so that you can get lots of milk preparations and keep your health very nice. So many nice preparations can be made from milk. In New Vrindaban, the other farmers, they come. They are surprised to see: "Oh, so many nice preparations!" They are appreciating. They do not know. It is the industrialist who has introduced this meat-eating. Because they are attracting men from village to work in the factory, so they have made it a policy that "We shall eat cow's flesh. That's all. We don't require..." In Russia, practically, they eat only cow's flesh. They do not know anything else to eat.
Prabhupāda: Your knowledge has not benefited you. Our taking your so-called science has benefited you because you are using it for Kṛṣṇa. You have worked so hard, so result is going to Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are making the best... (indistinct) ...there is chair but we don't care for the chair. We can sit down. But if it is available we don't reject it. Therefore (indistinct) ...you have made a chair and (indistinct) ...Not that I require your chair, without your chair I will, shall die. That is not my policy. You rascal, you have done something, I'm using it for your benefit. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He is big in everything, but you should not imitate, because you are not as big as Kṛṣṇa. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). He is very powerful. Before His power, everything becomes vāṇīshed. He remains powerful. But you cannot do that. "Kṛṣṇa is biggest cheater; therefore I shall become a cheater." That is not good policy. Then you will be finished. Just like the example is given that Lord Śiva drank the ocean of poison, and if you drink a drop, you will die. You cannot imitate the most powerful. That is not possible.
Paramahaṁsa: It makes me happy to think that they'll be happy.
Prabhupāda: That is madness. That is madness.
Paramahaṁsa: If I get insurance policy then they will have some money after I go...
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is natural, that you think of future. But the foolishness is you don't think of your future. That is foolishness. This is natural. Because every living entity is eternal, therefore he has future. But for himself he is thinking, "There is no life, next." And he is thinking of the life which will come as his grandson or son, what will be their future. And he is blind about the own future. This is fourth-class man. Suppose some danger is coming. So shall I take care of you: "How you will be saved? How you will be saved?" How I will be saved—that is my first business. That he does not know.
Prabhupāda: They... You do not take the right information. Right information is with us. That you refuse to take. Your information is zero. Compiling of zeros does not make any value. It is all zero. Take information from us. Then it will be beneficial. You are taking information from all universe except our this solid information given by Kṛṣṇa. That is your policy. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. You have read this verse? "The mūḍha, rascal, he does not know the ultimate background is I am." That he does not know. What is the use of his information? And in the Vedas it is said yam eva viditvā sarvam idam... There is a mantra, that "Only understanding Kṛṣṇa, you understand everything." Yam eva viditvā sarvam idaṁ vedituṁ bhavanti.
Prabhupāda: Because we are doing business, we are getting money from these rascal government, so if you expose me, then I will not get money, and if I expose you, you will not get money. Let us remain together and let them remain fools. That's all. This is it. If a common man like me can understand the whole policy, how the scientist will not understand? But they have made a compromise that "Don't expose me, I'll not expose you, and let us take money from the government." This is going on.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't take that, by number of people. We take how many people are taking actually. But neither... Ekaś candras tamo hanti: "If one man accepts, then he can become the bright moon." Na ca tārāḥ sahasraśaḥ: "The so-called stars has no value." One moon is sufficient. So our preaching is: Let one man understand Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We don't want disciples. I never collected disciples. I never compromised that "You can do whatever you like, and you become my disciple. "No. You have to follow this. Now also, this morning, I accepted so many... "First promise whether you are going to do this. Then I initiate." This is my policy. If I would have said, "No, you can do whatever you like, and give me some money.
Prabhupāda: Simply because they did not follow. Just like in India, this is the character of the brāhmaṇas that later on gradually the culture was lost since the last one thousand years, because India was subjugated by foreigners. The Mohammedans, they introduced some of their culture. Then the Britishers came. They intr... everyone wants an interest. The Britishers, when British rule came, their Lord Macauley's(?) private report was that "If you want to keep them as Indian Hindu, you will never be able to rule over." So it was British government's policy to condemn everything Indian.
Director: Yeah, well you're right. But in our society, minister is elected to carry out certain policies—not what he wants but what the people have voted. And they are taxed to support this.
Prabhupāda: If your policy is social reformation...
Director: Social reform is not our policy.
Prabhupāda: Then, social welfare.
Director: Just to look after those who are in trouble.
Prabhupāda: Well, everyone is in trouble. At the present moment even the ministers are in trouble.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, idaṁ te na atapaskāya. Those who have no life of penance and austerities, don't talk with them. It will be a waste of time. You know that there is verse in the Bhagavad-gītā? In Eighteenth Chapter. Idaṁ te na atapaskāya, māṁ ca yaḥ abhyasūyati: "Persons who are envious of Me and those who have not undergone austerity and penances, don't talk with them." But we take the risk. We go even to these rascals. Because for Kṛṣṇa's sake, "Never mind, it will take some time. Let me try this rascal." Therefore the easiest process is that every rascal will agree to take nice food and dance. So induce them to come to us, dance, and take nice food. Let them come on this ground. And by hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa, gradually they will be all right. This is the policy. So far argument, logic, philosophy is concerned, they are beyond... Because they are animal. They cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: It is a fact that they do not grow fruit trees because people will eat and will not work? Is that the policy? Somebody told me like that, that if there is enough fruit, then people will eat and they will not work.
Amogha: The fruit business would go down also. The fruit stands would not be able to sell much.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Bad policy.
Śrutakīrti: The government does that. On some farmers they will pay them not to grow to keep the price high.
Prabhupāda: Kill animals. Just see the policy. Instead of growing natural food, they will kill animal. Purposefully sinful life.
Śrutakīrti: But they still have to grow food for the animal. They're growing the food, but they give it to the animal.
Prabhupāda: Fruit?
Śrutakīrti: No, the food. They grow food for the animals, but then they kill the animal.
Prabhupāda: Just see. They can grow food both for the animals and for human being. Instead, they are simply growing food for the animals and killing them. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. You sing this before taking prasādam. The tongue is the greatest enemy and greedy. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. For the satisfaction of the tongue they are risking their own life and committing sinful life to suffer later on. Therefore the first-class man's first duty is to śamaḥ, controlling the mind. If one can control the mind, that "If I can live with grains, food, and milk, why shall I kill the ani...?" this is controlling the mind. They cannot control even this small thing. "Live and let live,"—this policy they do not follow. "Live and kill others." "Live at the cost of others."
Prabhupāda: Therefore younger generation, they are not interested in education. They see that, after all, the life is vacant even after education.
Hari-śauri: The leaders appear to have adopted a stopgap policy so that they can keep the people in ignorance and fool them that they are doing some good when actually they are not, so that they can maintain their position as leader. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are thinking by material adjustment they will be happy. That is not possible. But they are so fools, they do not think over it, that "Where is the solution? You have given me the chance to live in a skyscraper building, but is that solution of the problems?" They have no brain to ask this. Is it...? Does it mean that if you live in a skyscraper building there will be no death, no disease, no old age? Then where is the solution?
Prabhupāda: That is the way of western civilization. They are creating motor cars every year, and the bank is prepared to give you loan so that you may work day and night. Take loan from the bank and purchase a motor car and repay him by working so their machine will go on. This is the policy, economic policy. Is it not? Yes. Keep them working, busy. But what is the purpose of this working? Now, when death is there, everything is finished. And everything will be finished, for that working? Just see their knowledge. Everything will be finished and for this purpose I have to work so hard?
Australian devotee 6: They think that you might as well enjoy while you can.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if working hard like ass is enjoyment, let them enjoy. Let these rascals enjoy like that.
Prabhupāda: Occupying the churches?
Jayatīrtha: The Catholic churches.
Brahmānanda: They go on strike. They go there and they won't go out.
Prabhupāda: That is called Gandhi's policy.
Brahmānanda: Yes, gherao, or something like that.
Prabhupāda: It is called satyagraha.
Jayatīrtha: They are trying to get the Catholic church to support their demands.
Prabhupāda: That means Catholic church is supposed to support these prostitutes?
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Dharmādhyakṣa: And this is Dr. John Pore. He is the chairman of the religion department at the University of Southern California, and he has written a few books called "The Radical Suburb" and "Ethical Choice," and his academic interest is in ethics and religion and culture and education in public policy. And this is Dr. Crossley back here, also from the University of Southern California. He has a doctor of theology, and he is interested in modern theology. He's written many articles on modern theologians...
Prabhupāda: Then why modern theology? (laughter) Is God modern?
Dr. Crossley: No, but one can't do all theologians, one can't do every theologian.
Prabhupāda: No, "theo" means God, is it not?
Revatīnandana: So that is their real motivation for going to Venus. But it isn't very intelligent.
Prabhupāda: Yes, "The small animals will praise." That is good policy. I think we shall now go this way. Time is...?
Bahulāśva: Twenty to seven.
Prabhupāda: In Bhāgavatam everything has been described.
Dr. Judah: Yes, I received the first part of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that you translated and sent to me, for which I again thank you. I brought it with me to read on the plane. (break)
Prabhupāda: So better you don't die, don't live." Mā jīva mā mara. (break) ...nice park, nobody is coming. We Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we are taking advantage. (laughter) They have worked so hard, they are sleeping. We are taking advantage. So they are escaping or we are escaping? Just see how foolish they are. They have worked so hard, and they are not taking advantage. We are taking. So our policy is that "You work hard, and we go and take from you." This is not escaping. This is intelligence, that "You work hard, rascal. You are foolish asses. And we take advantage." Our George Harrison, he is working hard, in England (?). And he worked hard, and he gives a house, Bhaktivedanta Manor. We are not going to construct. Is that escaping or it is intelligence, that "You work hard and give it to me. We enjoy"? This is intelligence; that is not escaping. That is going on. The capitalists, they are engaging these rascals, asses, in the factory, and he enjoys life.
Brahmānanda: If you don't get married, then you don't go to heaven?
Bhāvānanda: Everyone gets married. They have a nice policy from the year nineteen to twenty-one every man must serve missionary work all over the world, and then he comes back and is married eternally. (break) And movie theaters, eight movie theaters.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...this way or that way? (break) What is that?
Sudāmā: Cesspool, underground sewer. It's backing up.
Prabhupāda: (break) It's coming out.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...is concerned, "How Kṛṣṇa will keep good health?" And we are concerned, "Kṛṣṇa will go to hell. Please supply me food so that I might keep my health good." That is the difference between materialistic and spiritualist. The foolish man does not understand that Kṛṣṇa is supplying food to the elephant, to the ant, and why I shall go to the church for asking my food? It is already there. And our policy is, "Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." Hare Kṛṣṇa means, "O Kṛṣṇa, O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." We create problem. Otherwise, no problem. Kṛṣṇa has arranged everything. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything can be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. That is our preaching. That is truth. There is a nice car. Why shall I condemn it? Utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. Then it is truth. And the Māyāvādī philosophers, they will say, "It is untruth. Give it up." No. When you have produced something by your good intelligence, it is truth, but when you use it for other purpose than Kṛṣṇa, then it is false. (break) ...Deity nicely decorated, if I say, "It is all false," is that very good sense? They have created such a nice thing. No, the purpose for which you have created or utilized, that is false. So we want to change the consciousness. We don't condemn the thing. (break) ...with a knife you are cutting vegetables and utilizing, but if you use it for cutting your throat, that is bad. That is bad. So they are using the knife for cutting their own throat. This is bad. (break) The śāstra says, nidrāham ādyaṁ plavaṁ sukalpam. This body... We are just crossing the ocean of nescience. So this body is a good boat. māyā ete 'rtaṁ guruḥ karṇa-dharam. And the wind is favorable, Kṛṣṇa's instruction. And the captain is guru. He is guiding you. With all these facilities, if you cannot cross the nescience, then you are cutting your throat. (break) ...boat is there, the captain is there, the favorable wind is there. But we are not utilizing it. That means I am killing myself. (break) ...nity. is there. (break) ...policy. The policy is suicidal. That is the defect. So preaching means to remove this defect and utilize the policy for going ahead. (break)
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not bad. It is good. Now our policy should be that at Dallas we shall create first-class men, and we shall teach the girls two things. One thing is how to become chaste and faithful to their husband and how to cook nicely. If these two qualifications they have, I will take guarantee to get for them good husband. I'll personally... Yes. These two qualifications required. She must learn how to prepare first-class foodstuff, and she must learn how to become chaste and faithful to the husband. Only these two qualification required. Then her life is successful. So try to do that. (Car doors open, walk begins) Ordinary education is sufficient, ABCD. This is all nonsense, so big, big, sound education and later on become a prostitute. What is this education? (laughter) To make them prostitute, it doesn't require education. (break) Yesterday we saw in the television how these rascals are wasting time, talking nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are publicly suiciding, and others are silently suiciding. The suiciding policy is going on. Somebody manifests; somebody does not manifest. That's all. If the human life is wasted for sense gratification, that is suicidal. Because you got the opportunity of enlightenment and you live like dogs and cats, this is suicide. (break) This, what is called, hydrogen bomb manufacturer, he is thinking that he is successful in his life by discovering this hydrogen bomb. but he does not know how to save him from death. So it is suicidal.
Prabhupāda: If one is engaged in the devotional service of Vasudeva, then he immediately becomes vairāgī—no attachment for material things—and knowledge. But most of these rascals, they are nondevotees. The so-called mahanta, he is not mahanta-mohāndha: "great blind." So that is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to bring everyone to the stage of devotional service to Vāsudeva. Then it will be all right. Other platform will never be successful. Simply show. It is not fact. (break) ...also take it very easily that "I haven't got to do anything. My Guru Mahārāja is there. He will do everything. I can do whatever I like." The Christians are doing like that, that "Jesus Christ will suffer. We indulge in sinful activities. That's all." This is their policy. It is perhaps in our movement only that each and every individual is being trained up. Others they do not do that. "I have made a guru; then my business is finished. Now I can do whatever I like."
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...village... (Bengali) ...the cooperation... (Bengali) I like this position, dictatorship. Personally I like this. (Bengali) ...America... (Bengali) "What is your opinion about this?" Must criti... Yes, criticized policy of Indira Gandhi. (Bengali) ...is spiritually inclined. If she improves, it will be perfect. She wants to be improved.
Lalitā: This should be taken with...
Bhavananda: A most important piece of paper.
Prabhupāda: "Barefoot Swami draws admiring Kṛṣṇa crowd." And... Read that portion. (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: They make analysis—"This is good; this is bad." The whole thing is bad; they do not understand. Dvaite bhadrābhadra sakale samana, ei bhala ei manda saba manodharma. A mental concoction we analyze—"This is good." And because the whole population is such rascal, therefore we see whole world they are creating government, they are making this advancement, taking... Everything is spoiled. That they do not understand, that "We have tried so far, scientifically and this way and that way. Why there are so many things disturbing and miserable?" The whole policy is to give you trouble. That is the material nature. You must be always in trouble. Adhyātmika adhibhautika. "No." They will say, "No, this trouble is better than that trouble." (laughter) This is the... This trouble is better than that trouble. Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Dr. Ghosh, he said... When he was student in Calcutta he was doctor of tropical medicine.
Prabhupāda: And at the end of your life. Just like insurance policy. You'll be happy after death. "You go on paying now, work hard, go on paying the premium and you'll be happy after death." This is insurance policy. And I am going to be a dog after death, and how he'll be happy? Just see.
Indian man (1): It is evident that miseries are growing darker and darker.
Prabhupāda: That must be because you are under nature's law. How you can avoid? As you are working, you will get the result. Karmana daiva-netrena (SB 3.31.1). There is superior power to supervise how you are working.
Prabhupāda: Then? Because five rupees allotted, then it must be spent. Never mind the fruits are rotten. What is this intelligence? To save money or to squander it, that is your policy.
Dhanañjaya: So when you told Smara-hari to purchase in quantity, the first thing he purchased was bananas.
Prabhupāda: Because he is monkey, he wants banana, very nice.
Smara-hari: You see, Prabhupāda, yesterday we fasted in the morning and because it was ekādaśī there were extra bananas bought for yesterday morning, and they weren't used, so there are some left over. So this is why...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's mercy. You have accepted Kṛṣṇa's mercy. This is the... (break) This empirical policy was very good, provided it would have been done for Kṛṣṇa. Then they could unite the whole world.
Brahmānanda: They had very good managing talent.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. But the whole thing was planned for their own sense gratification.
Brahmānanda: Exploitation.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If we ever had any kind of power like that and tried to do something like that, they would accuse that this is like the Crusades.
Prabhupāda: Our professors, they came from missionary, but there were other officers in government service, I.C.S., Indian Civil Service. They were also. In the province where they were employed he must learn the provincial language. Their administration was excellent, undoubtedly, British administration. Nobody in the world, so far administration... But their crooked policy ruined them; otherwise good administrator, good politician, good diplomat.
Harikeśa: They made those nice buildings in Delhi, too.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, and everything good. Simply heart was not very good.
Prabhupāda: "Only for Englishmen," "Only for Englishmen." Still that policy is going on here. That is not good. When one takes shelter of you, you must give him proper protection. That liberality is not there.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They would make the people dependent upon them and then exploit them, yes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fault. Exploitation was their policy. Whole European, the France, Holland—go some other country and exploit. They were doing the same thing in America also. Therefore America rebelled. Washington was Englishman. Still, he rebelled. He separated. Independent. A small country and bring money from the whole world—this is their bad policy.
Prabhupāda: ...have gone too much in the sand. It is dangerous. (break) ...panded so much, these Britishers, a few million people. This is demonic. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye manoratham: "I have got now so much. Now let me increase more." Never satisfied. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye mano: "I want to be the richest man, God." That was the British policy-ambition. Material ambition is like that. It increases more and more. (break) ...British buildings or American?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: South African.
Prabhupāda: South African.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A lot of investment comes from both America and England, industries.
Prabhupāda: No, we can go to the beach. What is that? If it is closed... (break) (Out of car:) The Indians are also coming to that point. The beginning is the rascal Vivekananda. He says, "Where you are searching God? Don't you see so many gods are loitering in the street, poor? Better you serve them. Why do you go to the temple?" This is their propaganda. That means no conception of God. The Ārya-samājīs also, they say, "There is no God in the temple." So in India the Jains, they also say, "There is no God." The Buddhists, they also say, "There is no God." The Christians, they have got very vague idea. So where is God? No God. It is only we are crying, "Here is God." Otherwise, whole world, they are trying to banish God, the Kaṁsa's policy, "Kill God," whole world, the Communists, total. This is our position. Is it wet?
Prabhupāda: No. Practically, because you have preached your culture in India; therefore they have lost their own culture. The Western, the Britishers were for two hundred years and they preached. Their policy was to kill the Indian culture. Because that report of Lord McCauley, after studying Indian situation, the report was to the Parliament that "If you keep India as Indian, then you will not be able to rule over them," so therefore there was regular policy to kill Indian civilization. And because they were on the governing power, they could do it. Therefore India lost its own culture and victimized by the Western culture. This is the position. Just they are learning how to eat meat, how to drink wine, how to dress them with coat and pant, how to go to the hotel, illicit sex—these things are…
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they brought tea from India and other places and sell it in America. Their whole policy was they exploit the whole world and bring money in London. That's all. And one who will do that, he will be honored by the state, given Earl of some small village. It has no value. Earl of this whole…, this man…, place, Lord of this. (laughter) A few acres of land and he is Lord of Chelmsford. And they will be given big, big post, governor, viceroy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did Nehru, though… He was so closely associated with Gandhi, and Gandhi was for getting the foreign products out. Why did Nehru go so much against that policy? Why did Nehru?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was the policy of education. So as soon as one became graduate and educated, he began to hate everything Indian original, and if he would get some clerk's business, service in some office, and his life is successful. That is still going on. So our car is here?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's just up here, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇa became by caste brāhmaṇa. He will do everything nonsense and still, he remains a brāhmaṇa. But you can introduce the original Vedic culture in this Europe and America. You have understood. You can do it. By this material civilization they will never be happy, and it is risky. That they do not know. They do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. So irresponsibly… Or just like these elderly persons, how they are wasting time.
Harikeśa: So we had this religion, and everybody was saying that this was the correct way, the official policy. So everybody knew this was nonsense. So Darwin is very scientific, so we accept the science.
Prabhupāda: What is that science? He said, "By chance, once, nature came." Is that … ? That is not science. We don’t find, nature's way, by chance it comes. No. As soon as you talk something nonsense, your whole statement will be accepted as nonsense because you are nonsense. What is the value of your statement? This is our test. Once you say something nonsense, you are wholesale nonsense. That is our test. You cannot say, "I am sorry. It was incorrect," no. That is not allowed.
Prabhupāda: Neither we are after false followers. If you agree, then you come. If you agree—"No illicit sex, no... Yes..." Why? There is no "Why?" You have to accept it. Then you come to me. That's all. If you like, you come; if you don't like, go away. I don't care for you. This is our policy. There is no "why?" You may say, "dogmatic," but it is not dogmatic but it is standard from Bhagavad-gītā, from Vedic literatures. Striya-suna-pana-dyuta yatra papas catur-vidhāh: (SB 1.17.38) "Wherever there are these four kinds of sinful activities, oh, that is very dangerous place." So we have taken it. (break) Now everyone, when there are so many cars... I saw one advertisement, Ford car, that "Bring all '79 cars and compare. Ours is the best." You cannot condemn him. It is advertisement. "Bring all '79 cars, others, and compare with our car." You can have your consent.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. "These Britishers do not allow me to go there? All right, kill them." That was the Hitler policy and Kaiser's policy, to kill British empire. They did it. They were successful. But they were also killed. This is going on, unnecessary. Why you produce so much razor and scissor? And then find out market, and when there is competition, there is anger, there is enviousness, there is fight, one after another, one after another. Where is peace? Why do you produce so many unnecessarily? Why do you produce so many cars, when there is scarcity of power, and fight with Arabians? Anartha. Therefore it is called anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopasamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6).
Prabhupāda: Well, you are the same Indian. Why you are not lazy here? It is the government's policy or government's management. You see? To become lazy is the recommendation of the śāstra. To become lazy... It is a bad word, "lazy," but actually life means not to work very hard. That is real life. And to work hard for eating, that is animal life, that is not human life. Human life should be very peaceful, without any hard work, and cultivating spiritual knowledge. That is human life, not that, to work hard like hogs and dogs throughout the whole day for find out some stool, where it is. That is not human life. So people are being educated to work very hard. That is not human life. Therefore those who have got money, they build nice bungalow in a secluded place to live peacefully, to become lazy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the window there was "cut, cut." (break) ...African government policy to keep these Africans', er, service, yes, for working, get money. They will remain happy in that way. They have no brain. They cannot govern. It is not possible. So this policy is nice.
Harikeśa: Someone was telling me that the weather here was supposed to be like Miami.
Prabhupāda: Miami? (break) ...places were reserved for the sinful man in Kali-yuga. Formerly the Aryans never touched these places.
Harikeśa: Africa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because this is necessary. You must have some shelter; you must eat; you must cover. That is necessary. So you do it. Grow food first of all to feed yourself sumptuously. You must get strength, and that is needed. But not for trade. The policy should be that you should be self-sufficient and save time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is wanted. Yavad-ārtha prayojanam. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi-daḥ. You shall eat whatever you require for proper upkeep of the body, not eating too much and sleeping whole day. Don't do that. Eat only what is absolutely necessary. Then you'll never be in want. People are engaged in material civilization means they are increasing the bodily demands, unnecessary. Just like this park. Why we have come to this park? We like this atmosphere. So similarly, in villages, everyone, if he has got some land, he can live simply without any gorgeous building.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Indian man (3): What is your idea about the secularism preached by our government of India and the policy of secularism? What do they mean by that? That means they say that there is no place for religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samana. As soon as there is no religion, the population-animal, that's all. That is going on. Because there was no religion, therefore the government has to declare emergency. (laughter) Because all animals. So they created first animals, then emergency. This is going on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why emergency? If there is human being, then why emergency? All animals. To control the animals you require some special measure.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) So you know better than me.
Dr. Patel: No, no. I did not know this, I read it...
Prabhupāda: But I know, what is his policy? His policy was to make this godless men to think of God, that "I am God." That is.... Let him be accustomed with the word God, then gradually he will understand. It is called ahaṅgrahopāsana. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Therefore I shall worship myself. Ahaṅgrahopāsana Nikatena, jagatena, ekatena. It is mentioned in the Bhāgavata, ekatena. That "I am Brahma. So I shall worship myself."
Dr. Patel: No, but he had also mentioned about bhuma puruṣa. That there is really a...
| Page Title: | Policy (Conversations 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 13 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=114, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 114 |