Police (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"police" |"police's" |"policeman" |"policeman's" |"policemen"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, generally we know when there is comet, there is very bad effect.

Prajāpati: The comet doesn't really bring the bad effect. It simply is a symptom. Is that it?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prajāpati: The comet doesn't bring the bad effect, it is a symptom.

Prabhupāda: No, yes, bring, bring.

Prajāpati: It does bring it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prajāpati: Does such a comet affect consciousness as well as matter?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Comet is just like a planet. It is a vehicle carrying so many conscious beings. It is just like if some policeman all of a sudden comes before us, it is to be supposed that someone is criminal, he's searching. Like that. (end)

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Devotee (3): ...in Holland wasn't any fuel Sundays, and the people could go outside with the cars, and then the statistics say that the fight between the family increased so, so much the police went... They went to the houses to, just to separate the people because there was fighting so much because they didn't have anywhere to go on Sundays. (devotees laugh)

Prabhupāda: Just see. It has become a problem, ah, to remain at home. (break)

Prajāpati: ...society, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it would train up brahminical qualities. But in the people in general, how can we engage them also in Kṛṣṇa consciousness? How can we provide them a means to use their leisure time to perfect their lives?

Prabhupāda: Just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Is it very difficult?

Prajāpati: To get them to do it is difficult.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let's call them in our temple, be practiced. Therefore our society is the most important society. We can teach people how to utilize time properly and be perfect.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They agree. Then automatically, slaughterhouse will be closed. If there is no customer for meat, then slaughterhouse will be closed. Just like Gandhi started this movement, non-cooperation, "Don't cooperate with the British government." That was his... Because the Britishers were ruling India with the cooperation of the Indians. Otherwise, how they could rule? The soldiers were Indian, the police were Indian, the secretariat, office, clerks, they were Indians—all Indians. But they manufactured in such a way that they were cooperating. So Gandhi took the route that "You non-cooperate; then the Britishers will automatically go away." That was his movement. Similarly, if we educate public that "You must find out a leader who is free from these sinful activities. Then you will be happy. And you also give up. Otherwise, how you will be able to select such a leader?" This should be our real propaganda. Otherwise they will think that "They're against our real joyful life. So these men are useless." You have to explain that "If these things, sinful activities, you prolong, then you cannot become happy."

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise what is the use of introducing prayer again? They have experienced that this without prayer, things have failed. That's a fact. You take this point.

Umāpati: Yes. The schools are falling apart. Delinquency and there's lots of criminal activity amongst the children in school. And even the teachers are walking out of the classrooms because of the violence in the schools and the lack of communication with their students.

Prabhupāda: No, in India, in examination hall there is regularly police. Regularly. I have seen it. So what is the value of this education? There is regular police. Now there is no ordinary guard.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In fact some people get killed. During the examination hall, people get killed.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sometimes people want to copy, and those people who are...

Prabhupāda: Guarding.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They catch them, and sometimes they get killed outside. Still in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There has been case. Yes.

Questions and Answers -- January 17, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: As soon as you fail to keep your promise, then you're fallen. You have to rectify yourself. Immediately you're fallen. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na sa siddhim (BG 16.23). That means you'll never get perfection. You'll fall down. You can cheat others that "I am in dress of a devotee, so I am..." What is your character? What is your actual value? That has to be judged. That is call bona fide teacher. All right, chant. (brief japa chanting) Any questions?

Devotee (1): Yes, one more.

Guest: Is the exterior clothing important?

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Guest: Is the exterior identification important?

Prabhupāda: Yes, important. Just like officially the policeman must dress, but a policeman sometimes in ordinary cloth also, that's his duty. But that is special case. But external, external dress is also required. By... In the dress of a police if he is a thief, that is very dangerous. That is very dangerous. Just like this dress of sannyāsī, saffron cloth, one will respect that "Here is a sannyāsī." But if he is a thief in a dress of a sannyāsī, that is dangerous. That is dangerous. One must dress... (end)

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Satsvarūpa: But we say, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa and you can become free," and they say, "No, I don't see that."

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that a sensible man is that "I am controlled. I am controlled by some other agent of Kṛṣṇa. So why not be controlled directly by Kṛṣṇa." This is sense. I cannot be independent. Just like the government. If somebody says, "I don't agree to be controlled by you," then government will kick with police, with military. That is our position. We are being kicked by the agent of government, material nature. We are desiring in different way to become controller or enjoyer, and we are being offered different facilities, means different types of body, birth and death. So because they have no sense, they have accepted this process. So by the force of nature... "You wanted to desire. You desired this thing. All right, take this body. You wanted to eat without discrimination. All right, take this body of a pig and eat up to stool." That is nature's gift. So therefore he's changing. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa brahmite kono bhāgyavān jīva. He's going on changing, this dress that dress, that dress, that dress, that dress. But he's not in sense that "How I can stop this change?" That he doesn't know. Now, as Americans, they have so many nice facilities, but you cannot enjoy them. By nature's force, you'll have to change. What you can do? Today you are living on the twenty-fourth floor of this skyscraper, and tomorrow you may become a rat in that room. How you can change it? It is not in your power. The rat is also in the same room and you are also in the same room. Who has made this arrangement?

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah! Ah!

Mr. Sar: So ignorant folks... No, no. I tell you, this is the ignorant folks. That is likely to happen in all religions.

Prabhupāda: No. Our Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura punished one Viṣikiṣeṇa. I'll tell that story. It is a fact. One avatāra came. And he was doing that in the village. And they complained to the police officer. And it went to the High Commissioner. And then Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was that time Magistrate. So the Commissioner knew that he is a pious man. So he entrusted the matter. And it was a long story. I'll tell you some time.

Mr. Sar: No, no. The founders were well-intentioned, but then, after these followers, you see, they only looked to the rituals and not to the spirit...

Prabhupāda: No, I don't...

Mr. Sar: You know, they forget that this will be sukṛtina. Bhakta should be sukṛtina first, and then bhakta. That they forget. So it happens, you see, in all the...

Prabhupāda: No, this thinking, that "I am as good as Kṛṣṇa," this Māyāvāda philosophy has done so much havoc.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Devotee: They don't pray God, who has made all of this.

Prabhupāda: No, that one, I mean to say, rogue, thief, came to a bank manager. Somewhere in Western countries. And he brought some lotions. So he said that "I shall mix up these lotions. Immediately the whole bank will be blown up." So he became afraid because the scientists do that. So... "So you give me check immediately, two hundred millions or something, otherwise I'll mix it." So he gave him that check. And... Because they were... "It is time bomb. If you call police or arrest me within this time, then it will blown up." So in this way, he took away the check. And after sometimes, he phoned to the police, "This is the situation. Come and help us. Here is a time bomb on my table." So police came. They also took it very carefully in the chemical laboratory. And in the chemical lab, they were also afraid. Then they saw it is glycerin. That's all. Such fools are there. You see. It is simply exploiting the innocent public of their money, hard-earned money. That's all. And if you go to such foundation that "Give us some money for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, printing these books," "No, no. We are not interested in religion. We are for scientific improvement, glycerin."

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Money's pure. (laughter) And prasāda, because it is offered to Kṛṣṇa, it is impure. Just see their argument. Money is pure. Even you can give me with your hand as much as you like. Because it is pure, I'll take it. And so far prasāda is concerned, because it is offered to Kṛṣṇa, therefore I cannot take it. (break) Oh yes. She has got the power. Śakti-mati Sar. Some... The police commissioner has remarked, "This bhajana is nuisance." So we have to agitate. There are so many Vaiṣṇavas. Bhajana is nuisance? Eh?

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So there must be some big agitation to drive away this man. The demand should be that "This man should be immediately removed. He has focused a sarcastic remark on a very pure religious system." This movement should be started. He must be removed immediately.

Balavanta: We can hold protest marches downtown.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: This about propaganda and collecting the signatures in the lakhs will not only take a lot of energy of the devotees, but it will take more time also. It is, in the city of Bombay, it is not practicable. Because people are very busy, and around the clock everybody is counting every second which he spends and more so, it's difficult for people to devote time towards a sat-saṅga or to sign the letter that they had no objection and on the contrary, the action of the police commissioner is condemnable, undesirable. That will take a lot of time. And I think by writing them a letter, by of our reconsidering, we lose nothing.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest: By writing them a petition.

Prabhupāda: But if... It has no effect.

Guest: I don't say there is no effect. They can always reopen the case and reconsider because the two grounds there which they have mentioned. Number one, it is a nuisance. It is to be proved it's a nuisance. And always a practice...

Prabhupāda: Then, then you have to go, public should go. Those who are interested Hindus and Vaiṣṇavas, they should go to the court and prove in the court that it is not nuisance, essential.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So that is to be decided by the court.

Guest: Therefore... I'm coming on that. What I say on the prima facie, the nuisance is not there. Number two ground, about that traffic objection, it is always a practice in Bombay, if there is objection, of traffic department, in that arranged, in that party which has agreed, in the person or the body which has made the proposal for the temple, is to be called, and they are to stand on the side and find how the traffic is going. There is an example about this near here, this bandstand at Chowpatti. One of my relations, he wanted to have a theater there. The position was not granted by the traffic department. But in that way the traffic department had, before deciding the issue, had to call those people who had purchased the plot for a theater purpose and convince them that this traffic will be a block and will be a bottleneck and it will be difficult for the police to control it. And theater, at every time, every three hours, you have particular four thousand or five thousand or two thousand people entering in the theater and going out also. Here the same problem is not there. Therefore the police or the traffic department has been biased and deliberately, for their own ulterior motive, they have taken this type of position, without involving us. If I am guilty, I must be told that I am a guilty man. They should prove in my presence. So no chance was given to me. Nothing was, I was not invited at the spot where the traffic was a bottleneck problem for the future. Without any justification, merely one sentence that "It could be." And if you will read their letter, they have not committed that certainly it will be a traffic problem. They said, "may be." If you see the reading, wording of their letter, they said, "It may be a traffic problem." They were not positive in their statement by saying that "This will be a traffic problem." This "shall be," or this "will" word, is not mentioned. It "may be." That means the option is equally open: "May not be," also. That's only (indistinct) has been taken without any basis of policy.

Prabhupāda: That is your second item.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Guest: What I was saying apart from all that... In my personal capacity, not as a lawyer, as a life member,... But as a life member, I can help on the police commissioner also.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest: In writing, I can help on the police commissioner.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let him come.

Guest: Whatever I have written it, giving my personal shape, I can write him and I can discuss the problem with him as a life member of our (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: No, not as our lawyer.

Guest: That... No, I say...

Prabhupāda: On your personal capacity. Yes.

Guest: I say...

Prabhupāda: Yes, as a public man, as a person, you can do that.

Guest: "As a life member, I am suffering because of this reason that there is no construction of a temple, therefore I cannot develop spiritually."

Prabhupāda: No, you can go to other temples.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So nasty that nobody will go there.

Guest: But should we now take the help from the political parties such as Shiv Sena?

Prabhupāda: That is very good.

Guest: Because they were the, only these people, who have stopped the police, the municipal commissioner from breaking the temple.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: Breaking the temple.

Prabhupāda: But one thing is... My fear is that as soon as they know the American people are agitating this, they may ask, "You go."

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: And I have no Indians to manage these big, big temples. Neither they are trained up. Trained up. I have trained up these American boys. They are doing nicely. But they cannot. They have taken a brahmacārī dress, and they will come with pant. And they will argue, "Why? What is the wrong there? Why should I give up pant? Why shall I have tilaka? Why shall I give up smoking?" Why, why... They will put so many "whys" that my life will be spoiled. Because they have advanced. So many rascals swamis have told them, "Yes..."

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, no, no. It's a fact. I have read the history.

Prabhupāda: Well, you have read history; I have gone there personally.

Dr. Patel: Going there and reading history is something different. You have seen only at a particular time, but... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...I was on the airport, they called police because they got, they saw one Bhagavad-gītā in my bags. You see. This is the position.

Dr. Patel: They are, they are translating Bhagavad-gītā in their own universities now. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...may be because it was Bhagavad-gītā, they stopped me.

Dr. Patel: This is a phase of the government. The government is not the people. (break) (Heavy wind noise throughout)

Prabhupāda: ...people everywhere good.

Dr. Patel: But the Russians are really good.

Prabhupāda: Only the... People everywhere, all over the world, they are all good. Only the leaders make them bad. That's all. That is my opinion. Misleaders. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). The so-called śreṣṭha, leaders, they... Just like in India. When Gandhi was there it was prohibition, and now there is wine shop every step. It is due to the leaders. People, people, what the innocent people, what they'll do?

Dr. Patel: You are talking of this, but I am the knower of the private character of so many businessman.

Prabhupāda: Why you know? Everyone knows.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Dr. Patel: This is very important. Puruṣaḥ sukha-duḥkhānāṁ bhoktṛtve...

Prabhupāda: Yes, as you, as you... Just like police. Police will punish you. You will have to suffer. But it is due to your criminal action police has arrested you. You cannot make police responsible for your suffering.

Dr. Patel: And here policeman is jīva, no? That is what my difficulty is.

Prabhupāda: No. The prakṛti... What is that?

Dr. Patel: Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān... (BG 13.22).

Prabhupāda: Ah, that puruṣa means jīvātmā, jīvātmā.

Dr. Patel: Jivātmā, not Paramātmā. That's right.

Prabhupāda: Jivātmā is within this body, prakṛti. This is prakṛti, material nature, jīvātmā. So as you infect the quality of the prakṛti, you become, what is called, entangled.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Naked woman, that's all. Both sides it is there. They advertise. Here... In America, anywhere you deposit forty dollars. Next day you get everything. (break) ...they say, "This year it is now reduced." Mean "Criminality, let go on, but from the last year, this year it is now reduced." That's all. (break) "...are drinking. Therefore you cannot call me drunkard." This is the logic. (break) These rogues and thieves will increase. That is the law of nature. Men... (breaks) They have a fire(?). (break) ...took down. (break) ...police, they simply only note down.

Dr. Patel: In America also, like here?

Prabhupāda: That's all. My things were stolen from my apartment in the beginning, so I went to the police. They simply noted down. That's all. (break) ...you can narrate the incidents when the negro at San Francisco...

Lilavati: Yes, we were...

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Kṣatriya, this is all finished. Now only śūdras and, little vaiśyas there are.

Dr. Patel: No, here, here you have got also brāhmaṇas.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Rāma-rājya was not democracy.

Dr. Patel: No, it was a sort of democracy because it happened that his wife, on seeing ordinary menials...

Prabhupāda: Why king should be under any criticism? (breaks) There is a jalebi seller. He is the medium of bribing police. He has got ten lakhs of rupees, ordinary jalebi seller.

Girirāja: "Yet even in places where the police get good scores for solving crime and apprehending law-breakers, the crime rate remains high."

Prabhupāda: When we were children, there was a respectable gentleman, Mullick's family. He was agent of taking bribe on behalf of... (break) ...Los Angeles. The same thing I am talking.

Dr. Patel: So you will have them, all the photos from here also. (break)

Prabhupāda: Anardhena nyāya-rahitam: "If you have no money, then you'll never get justice." Dalmia, he was imprisoned for two years.

Dr. Patel: He was never in the jail. I know.

Prabhupāda: He was in the Delhi Hospital. (break) I am speaking so loudly real thing. Here you cannot. Immediately you'll be in the black book.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They are all śūdras. Not will be. All, everyone is śūdras. This movement is to promote the śūdras to the highest class, Vaiṣṇava, more than brāhmaṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Everyone is rascal, śūdra. (break) ...śūdras should be elevated, elevated, but when even a śūdra is engaged in the service of the Lord, he becomes transcendental, above brāhmaṇa. (break)

Akṣayānanda: It said that eight people were shot in Aurangabad with student riots, and the police got their guns and they started to shoot all the people. The same thing is happening in Gaya. The students are protesting against this and that. It said that they were protesting against degradation.

Prabhupāda: Degradation?

Akṣayānanda: Yes. That is supposed to be the reason for their rebellion. They are protesting against corruption and degradation.

Prabhupāda: But the rascals, why they themselves do not, be not reformed? Protesting against degradation. Why you are degraded? What is that protest? You are degraded. You reform yourself. That they will not do. Protest against degradation. Are you not degraded? Are you pure? So what is the use of protesting? You reform yourself. They can protest in this way that our guardians, our government, they have degraded ourselves. But that's all right. But guardian is a fool, your father is a fool. But why you are remaining as a fool? That they will not an... If we say, "Now you come to us. We shall raise you from degradation," that they will not do. That they will not agree. Now go to them, all these students, that "You are thinking that you are degraded. So why you should be, mean dog...? Come on, we shall reform you. We shall give you the highest post, brahminical post. Give up these four principles." That they will not do. Will they do?

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Akṣayānanda: They get shot. The police come and shoot them.

Prabhupāda: That's all. And tax you and get fat salary. That's all. This is government. They will degrade you and take your money and enjoy themselves. That's all. (break) ...revolution in India. Yes. Because people are hungry. There is no food. A very great revolution. So long they were under Vedic culture, they were suffering. Suffering in this way-tolerating. Now that culture is gone. Now they will be violent. Just like in other countries. If you pinch somebody on and on, there will be a violent protest. In the beginning you may tolerate. But if you go on pinching, pinching, pinching, how long you will tolerate? This is India's condition. Britishers, when they were ruling, had some responsibility. Although they were exploiting, but they were arranging for sufficient food and other things. But these people are irresponsib..., simply personal. "Whatever money I can get, that's all." This is going on. All these so-called ministers, they come to the post for taking money, as much as possible. (break) It must have been belonging to some Nawab, Nizam. It is aristocratic building, not ordinary building.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: A karmī is suffering just the laws of...

Prabhupāda: The karmī is different. The karmī is suffering. He is suffering just like criminal is suffering. A criminal is given slap by the police. That slap, and the father is giving slap, that slap is different. Although it looks the same thing, but there is great difference.

Satsvarūpa: So there is no benefit to suffering unless it is connected with Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When Kṛṣṇa... Therefore we shall fully surrender to Kṛṣṇa. As Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, mārobi rākhobi yo icchā tohārā: "Now I surrender. Now if you want to maintain me, that is all right, and if You want to kill me, that is also all right." This is surrender. It is not business, "If You maintain me, then I surrender. If You kill me, then I do not." It is not like that. Mārobi rākhobi yo icchā tanhārā. "As You like. If You want to maintain, that is also good; if You want to kill, that is also good." This is devotee's view.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1974, Bombay:

Indian Man (3): (Hindi conversation) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...and police is controlling by beating them. Now they will go to the office, and again they will come in that way. And coming home for two cāpāṭis. You see? That's all.

Dr. Patel: They reach their office at two o'clock.

Prabhupāda: Just see. And again... (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Modern civilization is the civilization of the indriyas. We want a civilization...

Prabhupāda: No, no, indriyas... Material civilization means indriyas, but it should be so organized. That is the Vedic principles, that you enjoy your indriyas in a systematic way so that you may not fall again, another difficulty. That is the Vedic way.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Athens, yes.

O'Grady: Incredible. What about in Rome? What kind of... Do you think they're going... Well, they're asking about problems with the police and getting (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: That problem is everywhere.

O'Grady: Everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Police sometimes harass us, and they become later on tired and do not do anything. (chuckles) Arresting, arresting, they become tired.

O'Grady: They become tired.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Satsvarūpa: The pure devotee gives the chance to everyone, but only a few approach. So still the question is how can they become interested in the pure devotee?

Prabhupāda: No, this is the..., that you do it. If they do not do it, then who will come? This declaration is there, that "If you do this, then you can be interested." But if you do not, then you go on with your own business. A similar... The same things Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parit... mām ekam. Kṛṣṇa is demanding that you do it, "Surrender unto Me." The śāstra also says, "Surrender unto the representative of Kṛṣṇa," mahīyasām. But if they do not do, what can be done? Just see this sparrow. The sex is always accompanying, any time ready. The pigeons, any time ready. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. That is the only attachment for this material world, viṣaya. Whole world is fighting for this viṣaya. "I must have nice eating, I must have nice sleeping, I must have very good sex, and I should be defended by bank balance, by military soldiers, by police force, by atomic weapons." This is going on. Defense. Rascal does not understand that "In spite of all these things, I will have to change the body, and the same thing will be available again, in a different way." This intoxication, cigarettes. The ant, the small ant, they are very fond of intoxication. You know that? As soon as there is information, "On the top of the skyscraper building, there is a grain of sugar," they will go. (laughing) Because sugar contains intoxication. The wine is made from sugar, molasses. It has got the intoxication. You keep a grain of sugar there, and there will be hundreds and thousands... (laughter) Gold rush. Study. You see what is the difference of this civilization and the ant civilization, dog civilization, cat civilization. No difference. It is in the simply formation only.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: My organization is in fact concerned with the well being of all four classes. It is not only with the laboring man. It's also primarily with the producers, but also with the managers, leaders, and to a certain extent also with the protective classes in that we are interested in the well-being of policemen, hospital personnel, doctors, nurses, that kind of social security workers, and that kind of person. We are interested in the intelligentsia in that they are professional workers, often independent, whose professional rights and obligations need to be safeguarded and codified. That's a standard laid down in the form of international labor standards. One of our activities, not perhaps now the most important, but one of the first.

Prabhupāda: No. My point was, point is that... Because one is fourth-class, therefore we are not interested in that—it is not my point. My point is that there are four classes of men: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. And our point of view, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for taking care of all classes of men. Although by natural division there are four classes of men, first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class, but the example we generally give, just like in your body there are four divisions: the head division, the arm division, the belly division and the leg division, but all of them meant for keeping the body fit. And body is meant for giving supply to everyone of them. But if you comparatively make division, the head comes the first division, the arms comes the second division, the belly comes the third division, and the legs comes the fourth division. So we should organize in such a way that all the classes of men in the society be happy, not that we simply take care of the head.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prof. Regamay: But nonviolence is not well in every case?

Prabhupāda: No, nonviolence... Actually that is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā. What do you mean by nonviolence. Because you are not this body. Suppose if I tear away your coat, does it mean that you are killed? So those who are in the bodily concept of life, "I am this body," for them, this kind of fighting or killing is violence. It is violence. But the thing is, there is sometimes necessity. Just like every state maintains the military force, the police force. What is this? The violence department. Required. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). Suppose you are attacked by some rogue, and if somebody comes and kills him, there is a necessity. It is natural. If you say that time nonviolence, it is foolishness. It is foolishness. Vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Those who are rogues and, I mean to say, culprit, criminal, they should be killed. They should be stopped by violence. So violence is required sometimes. Violence is not bad, but it is not to be used ordinarily.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: We have got our educational institution in Dallas, Gurukula. From small children we are educating to become highest devotee.

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Guru-gaurāṅga: (French) This gentleman says we had difficulties with the police in the beginning. And I said, "Yes, but then I went, and I gave him all your books, and he read them, and then there were no more difficulties."

Prabhupāda: Yes, on account of our books we are being appreciated everywhere. In the beginning they might have thought that "Some of the hippies," like that.

Swiss Man (1): Have you been in connection with Aurobindo?

Yogeśvara: Have we been in contact with Aurobindo, Śrī Aurobindo?

Prabhupāda: Why? Why I shall be in contact, Aurobindo?

Swiss Man (1): Because he's... We know in (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: He does not know better than Kṛṣṇa. So one association is sufficient. There is no need of going this Aurobindo, Saurobindo. We never... Why should we waste our time? We have got sufficient education in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. First of all let us finish these hundred books of four hundred pages. Then we shall see what Aurobindo writes. We don't think anyone can speak better than Kṛṣṇa. That is admitted.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Nitāi: You never say wrong. (laughs) All of your answers were right, great.

Prabhupāda: I have got better instruction than Aurobindo. Why shall I go to Aurobindo, waste my time? People don't know anything. Nobody has become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa in reading Aurobindo's literature. And here, as soon as they saw our literature, immediately police officer said, "Oh, you are so high." Immediately. Where is the record, the professors and universities eager to purchase Aurobindo's book and Vivekananda's books? There is no record. But here they are eager "All sixty books, please, sir." "All twelve books, please, sir."

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Why are they so attracted to humanitarianism?

Prabhupāda: That is false pride. This has been taught. In the Christianity they have taught like that, giving medicine, open hospital. That is Christianity.

Yogeśvara: He admitted it himself. He said himself, "It's a false pride to think..."

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: In order to chant the holy name purely, is it necessary to have feelings of separation?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Provided he has got the taste for chanting. Otherwise he'll sleep. That's all. (pause) These are all buildings for museum?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, and some small parts are used for administrative offices, the government and police. This used to be a king's palace.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Paramahaṁsa: This used to be the king's palace, of France.

French Devotee: (indistinct)

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, this was the palace before they built the big palace in Versailles. Versailles is like a demigod's planet. It's the most wonderful building in all of France. Everything in gold, and wonderful paintings. Very, very big, and wonderful gardens and rivers. The king of France was very intelligent. In order to keep the nobles from revolting against him, he invited them all to his palace to enjoy with him. And he gave them wonderful feasts and a lot of sex life, and wonderful music. And like this, they never revolted during his time. This was Louis the Fourteenth.

French Devotee: He was called the sun king.

Paramahaṁsa: They call him the saintly king.

French Devotee: Sun, sun.

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, the sun king.

Prabhupāda: What is that sun king?

Paramahaṁsa: Why do they call him "Sun King"?

French Devotee: Because he was very opulent.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Devotee: ...with chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. The government could do nothing. The police were helpless.

Professor La Combe: And the festival in Sydney will take a long time?

Yogeśvara: Sydney festival is for how many days?

Prabhupāda: On the 29th.

Yogeśvara: One day, 29th of June. Ratha-yātrā festival like in Jagannātha Purī.

Professor La Combe: Today it is better here, little warmer. (indistinct) unusually cool for this time.

Yogeśvara: How are you feeling? When we went to visit you in your office, it wasn't sure whether you could come because you were not feeling very well.

Professor La Combe: I am not very well.

Prabhupāda: What is your age?

Professor La Combe: I got cold.

Prabhupāda: No, age.

Professor La Combe: Oh, I shall be seventy after three weeks.

Prabhupāda: Oh. I am also seventy-eight. But your health is better than me. You have got your natural teeth?

Professor La Combe: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then very good. (laughter)

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: They can protest in front of Downing Street, in front of the Prime Minister's residence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, protest meeting, go on, organize. Go, all of you. What is the talking here? They have seen that the movement is growing more important. So this is discrimination. In England the Church is very strong. They have organized like this. You quote the publication, "There is no alarm." Of course, it is on the plea of police protest, police objection. The police objection means one's religious ceremony should be stopped? What is this? Simply for some technical mistake, now they can warn that "You must do it. Otherwise it will be stopped." How is that? No. That means this is police government? Does it mean it is police government?

Bali Mardana: Police state.

Prabhupāda: Police state? And why they are declaring Commonwealth and, British Commonwealth. So if it is governed by the police, how it is Commonwealth? There should be very strong agitation. And all the Hindus will join. So who will organize it? Don't make it childish. It is very serious. (pause) Police should have taken task when the rules were broken by Mahādeva. Why they did not take action in that time? They did not say anything. Police, if there is discrepancy, violation of the rules, they should have taken immediate action. Why they did not take? Now they have manufactured by conspiracy that "This movement should be stopped. Now take this plea." This is going on.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: They should have a meeting until the order is given.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Until the order is given, we shall hold meeting here. Daily." And tell them that "It is, it is police government. Then we should, we should give up British connection." Agitate government that "It has become a police government." Best course will be like that, that "As usual, we shall keep the ratha there. We are not moving." And hold on, go on protest meeting, doing. And keep them there. Let them arrest and go to jail. That is the real effort. (pause) Or one thing do... Satī sārthaṁ samācaret. Therefore I wanted to start this politics. There say, "It is, it is our custom. Unless the ratha is there, there is no ceremony. So you have asked to palanquin. We shall make the ratha here, standing. And after holding our ceremony we shall take the Deity in palanquin and go to the Trafalgar Square. And go to the Trafalgar Square and hold meeting there. But the ratha must be there. It will not move. It will stand here. We shall take the Deities in palanquin and go to the Trafalgar Square." In this way, take police permission, and after going there, along with the ceremony, protest.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: They cannot object if the ratha is not moving.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all. That "You, objection... Our ratha will not move. It will simply stand there. The Deity will go in palanquin to Trafalgar Square and come back." They cannot object. But the ratha must be seen. And people must know that the rascal police government has stopped it. Go, everyone, and do it. The ratha must be exhibited, even though it does not move. And the Deity will be moving in palanquin. And come back again to the ratha. Is that all right?

Bali Mardana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Can you execute all this?

Bali Mardana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Do it. Ratha-yatra ratha is there, but the police did not allow to move. That's all right. We shall not move. The Deities, three palanquins, taken together, procession will go to the Trafalgar... That is, that is allowed. But the ratha must be exhibited. It will not move. So what is their objection. If the ratha stands in the same place, without movement, then they cannot have any objection. As they have passed, the Deities will move, and we'll come back again. Is it any... Eh? What objection can...?

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: You told me that when I came from Pakistan to India. I was complaining how difficult it was, but you said that a businessman makes profit in any circumstances.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is business. They are... Police has no eyes to see that the Bala-Krishna (Guru Maharaji) is regularly cheating. Any man can understand.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There is no stoppage of that... Yes. And here, stoppage. Just see. It is clear conspiracy. It is not that police. Police cannot be so powerful that he can stop. If there was any discrepancy, why did not they take step that "You have done... You have violated the rules." They should have prosecuted us. Now, without saying anything at that time, now want to stop it.

Jayatīrtha: It's just their tactic.

Prabhupāda: It is tactic. They're factually seeing that "These people, they have brought some Jagannātha and thousands of people following it. And nobody's coming to our church?" It is very common sense thing. The church is being closed. And all the young men, they are joining. Not old men, old fools. No. All young, flourishing, young men are joining. So they want to stop it now. (pause) Take it.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Guest (4): I mean the figures which are published that half of humanity will starve.

Prabhupāda: It's... Especially, we are Indian. It is advertised that we are poverty-stricken. All over the world this is advertised. Wherever I go, they say, "Oh, you are coming from India?" (laughter) Because they are simply begging, the government. But who is dying? There is... Dying is going on, but that death is going on in other countries also. They are dying, committing suicide. And maybe some persons are dying out of starvation. You cannot stop death. Suppose you have got enough food. That means that everything is solved? In America there is enough food. Why they are coming hippies? There is no shortage of food. Nothing... Everything is abundant, but why they are becoming hippies? They are lying down on the street, on the park and I have seen in London, the St. James Park. They are sleeping, and the police is kicking: "Hey! Get up! Get up!" So why? The English nation is not poor nation. The American nation is not poor nation.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He does not understand.

Prabhupāda: Suppose now there are a class of thief and class of honest men. So if you associate with the thieves, you will learn how to steal. But you understand also that "People hate us." The thieves, the thief class, they know that the people hate, the police arrest, the police put them... They also know that. But because they are habituated, they cannot give it up.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying stealing is relative. Some people steal because they watch television, some people steal because they're hungry or they need things...

Prabhupāda: Well, in the eyes of the law, when you go to the court, if somebody has stolen some diamond and if somebody has stolen some insignificant thing, in the court the six month prison is there. The man who has stolen an insignificant thing, the judge does not make any concession for him. "You have stolen, you must go to the jail." And the man who has stolen the diamond, he also takes the same term. So stealing is stealing. Either you steal diamond or a little fruit, it doesn't matter. The punishment is the same for the diamond-stealer and anything-insignificant-stealer. That is the law.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1975, Caracas:

Vīrabāhu: Oh, yes, I was new in the movement (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Ask this rascal that you stop the cause of fear and we have no... (to devotee who is walking too close:) Don't come so far. You may... We admit that we are afraid of death. You are also afraid of death. Are you bold enough? If I kill you immediately you shall stand. Ask the scientist, "Are you bold enough to die immediately? I shall kill you?" At that time he will be afraid: "Call police! Call police!" "Why you are afraid of death? You are great scientist. What is your answer?" The scientists are not afraid of death? They are not afraid of death?

Vīrabāhu: I really don't know what they will answer. They should be. Sure, they are, inside, but they are puffed up.

Hṛdayānanda: They are very much afraid.

Prabhupāda: Very much afraid, yes.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, because he has chanted Kṛṣṇa, "Here is the Kṛṣṇa man. Here is the rascal Kṛṣṇa man." (laughter)

Tripurāri: We found one policeman at the Atlanta airport was always harassing the devotees, trying to stop them. And one time I came down the stairs and I saw him in the corner reading Īśopaniṣad and trying to understand. They know that we have some knowledge; they are just envious of our success. They want to find out, "What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness about?" They don't want to admit that they want to know. Actually everyone wants to know about Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they must.

Tripurāri: You said that everyone is hankering for these books.

Prabhupāda: So he read that Īśopaniṣad?

Tripurāri: Yes. He tried to understand.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Tripurāri: Now he does not harass us so much now.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) So we have to do like that. Here everyone is demon, everyone. Demon means they are busy for sense gratification. That is demon. And devotee means he has no sense gratification. He is only busy how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is the devotee. Anyway, if you serve Kṛṣṇa sincerely, Kṛṣṇa is with you. You will never fall in danger.

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Reporter: The way we dress lets us move in all circles.

Prabhupāda;: No, the thing is, dress is not very important.

Reporter: But you have your disciples dress in this way...

Prabhupāda: But just to draw a particular... Just like the policeman, he is differently dressed. One can understand that he is policeman. Similarly, we are also differently dressed so that people may understand we are Hare Kṛṣṇa people.

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Female Reporter: Swami, I saw a television program about your movement once, and they said that the men make the decisions and the women follow. Is that true?

Prabhupāda: I do not follow.

Śrutakīrti: She hears that the men make the decisions and that the women follow these decisions.

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. We follow the decision of Kṛṣṇa, men and women both. We follow the decision of Kṛṣṇa. That is applicable both men and women.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Guest: One restaurant near Metro was serving that type. And one man suffering from leprosy was given only about one month to live, and "If you want to enjoy, you enjoy. But if you want to get cured, you have to eat human flesh." "I don't eat human flesh." So he started eating anywhere. And he liked one place very much, and he started eating for one month at that particular place. And eventually he was cured. Then a police report was found out that they were serving human flesh by inviting very poor people from the South India for washing the dishes at night, giving five rupees. When they come, they kill him and serve in the morning.

Prabhupāda: That was being done long, long ago in a Chinese house in Calcutta. They'd call hawker.

Guest: Hawker. And kill him up.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: It is a very confidential report. The government will not publish it. (break)

Prabhupāda: Supply large quantity of milk? No.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Paramahaṁsa: It means that if you pay enough money, you can get anything, or you can get somebody to do anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The justice, they are taking bribe, giving judgment.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, yes. Policemen. Also the politicians in America, sometimes they win their elections by giving bribes.

Prabhupāda: To the voters.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Amogha: Everyone is cheating, but when they find out that the leaders are cheating, everyone becomes upset.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Śrutakīrti: No, that is their happiness.

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, they are enjoying.

Śrutakīrti: It's not suffering to them. They are very happy.

Prabhupāda: You are thinking they are unhappy.

Amogha: Even the police try to make the hippies get off the street, and they say, "No, no, we like it here. We want to stay."

Prabhupāda: Then you want to minimize their suffering?

Amogha: No, we will let the hippies lie there, but for the sick people who are...

Prabhupāda: What is the difference, a hippie lying on the street and in India some patient is lying on the street? What is the difference?

Śrutakīrti: According to the person's desire, we facilitate.

Prabhupāda: No, go on, waste your time. Your philosophy is that "If they feel pleasure lying on the street, so let them lie down." That is your philosophy. Then why do you endeavor for others?

Paramahaṁsa: Well, if they feel pleasure, then we can also let them.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: They will take because people are becoming godless. That is the defect. People are becoming hippies, godless. This material world is full of miseries because most people are godless. Here... Material world means avoiding God. That is the sum and substance of material world. They are trying to avoid, becoming independent of God. That is their endeavor. The scientist, the philosopher, the politician—everyone is trying that. Therefore they are suffering. Māyā is there. Just like a criminal, if he says "I don't care for government," the police will take care of. That is certain.

Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if someone has inquired about God, but can be so overpowered by māyā...

Prabhupāda: No, if you are strong, then māyā will not be able to overpower you. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Anyone who is fully surrendered to God, māyā cannot touch him.

Devotee (4): How does one become strong?

Prabhupāda: That we have given. Be strict in following the regulative principle, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Devotee (4): Just the four regulative principles?

Prabhupāda: Yes, no illicit sex, no... This is the method, and chanting is the process. Then you will remain strong. And if you neglect, then you become weak. To remain strong is not difficult, but we don't want to remain strong. That is our decision. Otherwise it is not difficult. But we don't want to remain strong. We voluntarily become weak. Then māyā catches, "Come on."

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: So how is material forcing something spiritual?

Prabhupāda: You have voluntarily accept her supremacy. Just like you have accepted some disease. So disease is forcing you. And if you cure, then it will not be able to force you. You infect some disease. Then you become forced by the disease to accept the miseries. But if you are not diseased, there is no question of force. If you become criminal, the police forces you. And if you are not criminal you have no business with the police. It is like this. Police control, controller—the controlling power upon me comes when I am criminal. Otherwise why police will control me? Therefore I voluntarily accept the control of police by my criminal desires. That is going on. That is material life.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Madhudviṣa: Very nice. So he has taken many photographs for us. And we are particularly indebted to Wally and Raymond for giving us a lot of good guidance in our dealings with the police. And one time we had one incident about three years ago, when some of the boys were a little enthusiastic about Ratha-yātrā festival, and they went out and they picked many flowers illegally. So they were caught.

Prabhupāda: Illegally? Where? In the park?

Madhudviṣa: No. In one flower-growing nursery.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Madhudviṣa: So they were found out and caught. But Raymond was able to get them off free due to Kṛṣṇa's mercy. But it taught us a good lesson.

Guest 1: Actually I think they had the wrong people.

Prabhupāda: There was a great devotee in South India. He was a treasury officer. So he took money from the treasury and constructed very nice temple. (laughter) Yes. Later on, he was caught, and he was put into jail by the Nawab. At that time the Mohammedan king, Nawab, he saw in dream that two boys, very beautiful, they have come to the Nawab: "Sir, what money he has taken, you can take from me and release him." So the Nawab said, "If I get my money, I can release him." Then, when his dream broke, he saw the money on the floor, and nobody was there. Then he could understand that he is great devotee. He called him immediately, that "You are released, and you take this money also. Whatever you have already taken, that's all right. And now this money also you take. You spend as you like." So devotees sometimes do like that. Actually nothing is private property. That is our philosophy. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." That's a fact. Under the influence of māyā we are thinking that "This is my property."

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That is your foolishness. Why you should take permission of your father or mother? Your business is your business. Why you are thinking like that, "I have to take permission of mother, my wife, my children"? And who will give you permission? Nobody will give you. You have to take your own permission. That is the way. You have to think that "Now, what is the use of taking their permission? When I am in danger, will they save me?" Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti. "When I will die, they can save me? Then why shall I take their permission?" That is intelligence. Nature does not depend on your wife's or father's and relatives' permission. She does not care. When she will ask you, "Die now," you have to die. No question of permission. "Now your time is up, finished. Get out." No permission. You have to do it. Nature can await permission of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody's permission. Mama māyā. When the police comes to arrest you, it doesn't... the police doesn't care for anyone's permission. Only the government permission. That's all. Unless the government orders, they will arrest you. The police will arrest and take you by force. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ paramam: "The rascal does not know, nobody's permission will be accepted except My permission." This mūḍhā does not know. Nābhijānāti: "He does not know it." Therefore he is mūḍhā. It is now looking so peaceful nice, but with the permission of the Lord immediately there will be a heavy cloud and storm and waves and finished everything, within a second. That is permission. (laughs) Who cares for your permission?

Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Viṣaya means sense enjoyment. Now, that boy and the girl, they're taking dogs. The dog is also male and female, and the man is male and female. So viṣaya means sense enjoyment. The sex enjoyment is both; the dogs and the man, they will have. But the man can get Kṛṣṇa; the dog cannot get Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Viṣaya, that sex enjoyment, is available both for the dogs and the man. But the man can achieve Kṛṣṇa; the dog cannot. That is special. Viṣaya khalu sarvataḥ syāt. (break) ...of eating, sleeping, mating. That is available in every life. (break) ...another passage is there in Prema-vivarta, :janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya: "In every life, one can get father and mother." Kṛṣṇa guru nahi mile bhajahun re bhāi(?): "But Kṛṣṇa and guru cannot be had in every life." That is only in human life. Otherwise, as soon as there is birth, there is father and mother. Either you become human being or tiger or snake or bird, the father mother is there. But the spiritual father and Kṛṣṇa, that can be obtained in human life, not in every life.

janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya

kṛṣṇa guru nahi mile bhajahun re bhāi.(?)

So we should take full advantage of the human life. That is civilization. And in sense gratification it is not civilization; it is animal life. (break) ...for sense gratification. This is the modern civilization. (break) ...nice place is made for sense gratification. And as soon as you perform kīrtana, the police will harass you. This is civilization. (break) ...nice place, there should be so many temples. People will come early in the morning, take bath in the sea, go to the temple, have some spiritual inspiration. That program is there. And running. The dog is running and the man is running. (break) This sense does not come that "The dog is running; I am also running. Where is the difference between him and me? She has got a female mate; I have got a female mate. Where is the difference? How I am civilized?" That, this sense, does not come. (break) ...thinking, "I have chained the dog, but I am not chained." But you are chained by māyā, invisible chain. That he does not know. He is also chained. (break) ...māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Māyā-sukhāya. (break) ...peacock? No, cranes, sarasa. (break) ...football? Football ground.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: One day in London a woman came to try to drag her daughter from the temple. She came into the temple room with her shoes on, and one devotee... She would not remove her shoes, so the devotee pulled off her shoes and she fell down. It was almost like she bowed down. She became so angry, she was shouting in front of the Deities, and I dragged her out and had to wrestle her out of the temple, literally wrestling with her to get her out the door. And she came back in with a policeman, and she pretended to have a fainting spell because we had beaten her so badly, she said. And so she said, "Get me some water," but we didn't have any water, so we have her some milk prasādam, and she drank it without thinking what it was. And so in so many ways—she saw the Deities, she had prasādam, and then she left again, and all this, completely out of anger, but her anger was so strong that she got a lot of association because of it. She was so energetic, I think she could become a devotee some day. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...in America from India. They are so much impressed, Śrīla Prabhupāda. But the most impressive thing for these life members is to come to America and see our institutions. They have letters of introduction. They don't want to live in the temple generally, but they come to see.

Prabhupāda: The other, that member, the same?

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And we say, "No prostitution." (break) ...the problems will come, one after another. This is a bad civilization. It is already a dangerous place, material world, and this bad civilization is creating more dangerous problems.

Jayatīrtha: Now everyone is terrified. In New York they published... The police and the fire department published a pamphlet saying that New York is now called "fear city." And they pass them out to the passengers that come in on the airplanes and the buses, saying that "You should be very careful. You should not walk the streets at night and..."

Brahmānanda: Because the New York City is financially bankrupt they are firing so many policemen, firemen,...

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Brahmānanda: Yes. So the policemen, in retaliation, they are making propaganda—and actually it's a fact—that "Now New York is very unsafe, and no one should go out on the street after six o'clock."

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: Would you explain the other side of it, the fact that, of course, the Bhagavad-gītā was, has its setting on a battlefield in which Kṛṣṇa enjoins Arjuna to go out and fight his kinsmen because it is his duty as a kṣatriya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because in the material world, for the maintenance of equilibrium of the society, sometimes killing is necessary. Just like fight, war. When the enemy has come to your country, you cannot sit idly; you must fight. But that does not mean that you are allowed to kill everyone as you like. That is a special circumstances when fighting must be there. Therefore the kṣatriyas are required to give protection. Like the government is keeping military, police, soldiers, that does not mean government is after killing only. That department will be utilized when there is necessity, not that government is meant for killing. Government has other departments also. But this is also maintained. If there is necessity, it should be utilized. So Kṛṣṇa, when He is on the battlefield, that was a necessity. He has got two business. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Those who are demons, those who are disturbing elements, they should be killed. And those who are honest and peaceful, they should be maintained. But because it is material world, the world of duality, there are good and evil, so you have to curb down the evil. Sometimes force is required. So that killing is not bad.

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Rādhā-vallabha: Even in Rādhā-Ramaṇa temple they were asking when is our Vṛndāvana temple going to be opened.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: ...police are also becoming very favorable. Even when they arrest us, actually they want to hear Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Prabhupāda laughs) When they arrest us, while they are writing the tickets, we read to them out of the books.

Prabhupāda: Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was child, His mother's friend would tease Him so that He may cry, and then they will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and He will stop. To see that by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa He is pacified to see this fun, they would tease Him first of all, and He would cry, and then they will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they will... (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: In New Jersey one time we were driving very fast to try and meet you at the airport, and a police officer pulled us over, and he was very angry. We were driving very fast. And he said...

Prabhupāda: No, you should not drive fast. (devotees laugh) No, no, this is not good.

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but fast, drive very fast, is risky.

Rādhā-vallabha: So this police officer he pulled us over. He was very angry. He said, "Let us see your license and registration." We gave it to him, and it said International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness on the registration. He said, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa." And he asked us some questions about the philosophy, and he listened very carefully, and then he said, "I cannot give people like you a ticket." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...they are pleased, but don't take undue advantage. Yes. (break) ...remain friends. That is wanted. (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: When they arrest us we read to them out of Kṛṣṇa Book, the pastimes, and they listen the whole time. And sometimes for an hour and a half, two hours, they'll listen to us while we preach. Then they let us go. (break) Sometimes we are about to make an announcement to collect donations and the police officer will be standing there like this, like he doesn't want us to do it. And we go up to him and say, "If you don't look, we'll go ahead and collect and pass out magazines," (Prabhupāda laughs) He will say, "All right."

Prabhupāda: "Please close your eyes. (everyone laughs) Let us do something."

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them be liberated, not being pregnant. The man will be pregnant equally. (laughter) Where is that liberation? Can they make any resolution, "Now, man has to become pregnant also equally."

Jayatīrtha: The scientists will begin work on that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let these rascals engage in that work, how a man can become pregnant. (laughter) "Yes, we are trying, we shall do in the future." They will say like that, yes. (break) ...there are women police. You know that? So they were guiding... I said that "If somebody captures your hand, then where is your police force?" Any young boy sixteen, seventeen years old can capture any two, three women, and he can control. And where is the police force?

Brahmānanda: They're now making women firemen.

Prabhupāda: Firemen?

Brahmānanda: Yeah. So all the wives and girlfriends of the firemen, they have lodged a protest because they are afraid... Because the firemen, they, often they have nothing to do. So they are afraid that if there are women firemen that the women firemen will steal away the husbands. So they have made a protest. Because practically they have to remain together. They have to live together in the firehouse.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That is bondage.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayādvaita: Then the women will decrease.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of decrease. They are already increased. They will be equal quantity. (break) ...is there, therefore the dogs are not there. Dogs? Best friend, dogs, are not there today because the policeman is there.

Jayatīrtha: Oh, this man.

Kirtirāja: That's Hayagrīva's and Kīrtanānanda's friend.

Jayatīrtha: Dr. Henderson.

Kirtirāja: George Henderson, yes.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Kirtirāja: Right here, standing here. He just went like this to you. (break)

Brahmānanda: I asked him to prove mathematically that one minus one equals one.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...doing there?

Brahmānanda: Getting the clams.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...brāhmaṇas. are sensing danger because they see that these Europeans are worshiping Deity, temple. Then gradually there will be no caste brāhmaṇa. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...Mahāprabhu also had difficulty with the caste brāhmaṇas?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They complained to the magistrate that "What kind of religion He is introducing? It is not our Hindu religion. So chastise Him." (break) ...report of the brāhmaṇas, the police came and broke these drums. It was not the fault of the Mohammedans. The brāhmaṇas lodged complaint against Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So he has to take step. They said, "It is not Hindu religion. They are disturbing God by chanting so loudly. (laughter) Now the God is sleeping and they are disturbing, 'Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa.' So stop this." So what can he do? After all, he is public servant. Therefore he took steps.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Śrī Govinda: Lt. Mozee.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes.

Śrī Govinda: He's with the Chicago police department, and he's in charge of developing their relationship with the media. And I was thinking there could be nice discussion with him concerning your ideas about stopping crime.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. So I shall explain or he will enquire?

Jayatīrtha: Would you like to ask some questions or have him explain?

Lt. Mozee: Well, no, I understand the spiritual leader had some ideas on how to prevent crime, how to do these things. I might inquire after he gives his ideas. I understand you read the...

Prabhupāda: It is not idea, it is fact that one man is very pious and one man is very vicious. What is the difference? The difference is: one is dirty in his heart and one is pure in his heart. So if you keep people dirty, then there will be crimes. This is the sign that the general people, they are dirty. So you have to purify the dirty things, diseased condition. Then things will be all right. So our simplest process is to assemble in congregation and chant the holy name of God. Then dirty things will go away. So if you want to stop crime, then you have to arrange for mass saṅkīrtana. That is our movement. Gather people as large as can be possible and congregationally chant the holy name of God. Then it will be all right.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: No, the distinction I was attempting to draw was would there be more benefit, would there be more of an influence, or would there be more of a strengthening if it were in an area of affluence rather than an area of poverty or vice versa?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, that's... Our treatment is for the diseased person. So diseased person does not make any distinction of poor man and rich man. Rich man is also diseased, and poor man is also diseased, and everyone should be admitted in the hospital. So hospital should be in such a place where the poor man and rich man, both of them can come because all of them are diseased. So when one comes to the hospital there is no such thing as a poor man's hospital or rich man's. Hospital is hospital. And everyone being diseased, everyone should take advantage. But the difficulty is, as we are quoting the passage, that rich man, he thinks that he is not diseased. Although he is diseased number one, but he thinks that he is not diseased. That is the difficulty of the rich man. But we are thinking everyone is diseased. And you know better than me being police. There are criminality amongst rich men and poor men alike.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Jayatīrtha: At the same time in that Time article it discussed that about fifty percent of the crime was done by children under eighteen and people are afraid even to go to the schools.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not educated properly. Not only that they have given photograph: the children take small..., yes, weapon, knife. And examination is held under police vigilance. This is the education.

Mrs. Wax: Some of us are parents of devotees and when you came to America nine years ago, eight years ago...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mrs. Wax: ...some young people were attracted to the message and responded and joined Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Is there a special reason? What explanation do you have why some...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The special reason was... That was published in one paper, Voice East. What is that?

Devotees: Village Voice.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They wrote a very big article that "We thought God is dead but Swamiji has brought God in his kīrtana." They wrote this article. They found God's presence in Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This Brahmānanda, he was attracted first.

Morning Walk -- July 8, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Especially America.

Jayatīrtha: Especially America. On its shoulders then we can give, Prabhupāda can give direction, and they can provide the resources. America will provide the resources, and we will provide the direction. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...mayor and the police officers, through them, try to approach higher authorities. And what is that? We met yesterday?

Harikesa: The public relations?

Prabhupāda: Ah, public relation. So convince them to..., the Americans should take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement on the shoulder, and because the Americans are blind, we shall give them direction on the shoulder, "Go this way. Go this way." So blind and the lame man combined together will perform a great task. (break) ...blindly, simply accumulating money, but they do not know how to utilize the money. They should take direction, authorized direction from us, and then it will be very nice. (break) ...not these concocted "isms." This "ism," that "ism," that "ism." Because it is, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. These all rascals are blind. They do not know how to direct. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). They are trying to adjust the world affairs blindly. They do not know. So let us combine. Let them come forward, take direction from us.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Devotee: Here in Chicago, there's so many big buildings and there's so much money.

Prabhupāda: So building, what you will do with building? You have to leave the building and go to hell. What you are doing for that? So long, fifty years, you can lick up the building. Then, after all, you will be thrown into the hell. Then what you are going to do about that? If you cannot stay in the building, then what is the use of constructing building? Suppose you construct one building here and the policeman..., "No, you cannot stay here." Still you construct building?

Devotee: They say they live for sixty years, so enjoy it while they can.

Prabhupāda: So that is foolishness. You are making, (imitates piledrivers sound) "Dung! Dung!" very solid, but you are not going to live. The "Dung! Dung!" but that's all. This is called foolishness.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Woman: You have said that you are very small and that you are not God, and yet it appears to me as an outsider that the devotees treat you as if you were God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is devotee's duty. Just like a government officer. Personally he is not very important, but so long he executes government order, he should be respected as government. That is the way. Even a ordinary policeman comes, you have to respect him because he is government man. But that does not mean he is government. He is respected. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. If that man thinks that "I have become government. People are respecting me," then he is foolish. So... But it is the etiquette. If the government man comes, you should respect him as government.

Woman: Along the same idea, I wonder also about the many beautiful material things that the devotees bring to you, and, for instance, when you left the airport, you left in a beautiful, big, fancy car, and I wonder about this because...

Prabhupāda: That is teaching them how to respect. If you respect government man as government, then you must treat him like that.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Devotee (1): It's called the Vondal Park.

Prabhupāda: Thousands of hippies are lying down there. In London I have seen in St. James Park, early, because I go for morning walk, that the police is kicking, "Ho! get up! Get up!" And government has engaged men: "Why you are living like this? Come here. If you have no home, we are giving home." They don't care. Therefore the śāstra says that simply try to make man Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is required. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). In other life, either high-grade life, low-grade life, there was no chance of becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. But the human life there is chance. Kṛṣṇa conscious means, when we speak Kṛṣṇa, God. So that is... There is the chance. So the śāstra says, instead of endeavoring for other things, better you try to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That will solve all the problems.

Jayatīrtha: The hippies see that their fathers have not become happy by their riches.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have got some reason, certainly. So they refuse to adopt the way of life of their father or grandfather. So they must have some reason. But on the total we can see that these three classes of men—one in great prosperity, one via-media, and one in want... These three classes of men there are, everywhere, all over the world.

Morning Walk -- August 25, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So then he will come.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And then we shall give him good refreshment.

Bhāgavata: The assistant chief of police from Mathurā has booked the V.I.P. room for the 29th and 30th of this month.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: For whom?

Bhāgavata: For himself and his family. He wants to stay in the V.I.P. room for two days. He booked about a week ago.

Prabhupāda: For Janmāṣṭamī.

Bhāgavata: Yes, for Janmāṣṭamī he wants to stay.

Brahmānanda: For free.

Bhāgavata: No, no.

Brahmānanda: He'll pay?

Bhāgavata: Yes.

Gurṇārṇava: Of course, he's going to pay.

Prabhupāda: V.I.P. room, our?

Bhāgavata: Yes. Our V.I.P. room.

Morning Walk -- September 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Dhanañjaya: So all these cheaters are māyā's agents.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they are agent of Kṛṣṇa. (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. But because you want to cheat Kṛṣṇa, therefore they are cheating you. They are not your servant. Mama māyā: "My servant." Just like the police. Police is punishing you not on their own account. Because you are disobedient, you must be punished. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14).

Brahmānanda: The moment we stop cheating Kṛṣṇa, then we can...

Prabhupāda: Then, immediately, he becomes friend. This is the way, going on. The whole arrangement is like that. So long we shall not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, we have to suffer so many ways, different species of life, different condition, different planets. This is going on. (break) ...indirectly forcing that "You be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise you'll be punished." Why police is so unkind? Because the indirect way is that "You become lawful; otherwise you'll continue to be suffering by us." So intelligent person thinks of it, and he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. And those who are rascals, fools, bewildered, they think, "We shall adjust it by manufacturing every year new type of motorcars." Although there is accident... The increase of motorcar means increasing the death rate of public. Huh? And still they'll do that. It is becoming problem in cities in Europe and America. All roads and streets are always congested. They cannot drive even at ten miles speed. Still, they are increasing. Still, they are increasing motorcar.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Why doesn't God force me to surrender?

Prabhupāda: No. That Kṛṣṇa is not a nonsense like you. Because Kṛṣṇa has given you little freedom He does not want to touch it. That is Kṛṣṇa. What He gives, He never takes it back. It is not a nonsensical award that "I give you sometimes; then I take it away." Kṛṣṇa does not do such. He has given you little freedom, so you can use it. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad..., "Whatever you like, you do." That freedom is taken by nature. You are human being. If you do not engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then nature will withdraw this privilege and you'll become a dog. Kṛṣṇa does not take, but His agent, māyā, will take it away. Just like the police is the agent of the king or the government. The government does not care what you are doing. But if you do something criminal the police will punish you.

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: We shall go or turn?

Harikeśa: Maybe we can go back to the park again.

Prabhupāda: In the European parks they do not allow to sit down on the grass. Do you know that?

Kartikeya: Yes.

Prabhupāda: In Paris I was trying to sit down on the grass floor. Immediately some policeman, "You cannot sit here." Bench. You can sit down on the bench. So here we think we can sit down little, eh?

Indian man (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) There? (break) Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...tamarind tree?

Kartikeya: Acacia.

Prabhupāda: Acacia. Gum.

Kartikeya: Gum. These are like nimka.(?)

Prabhupāda: Tamarind.

Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "Yes, no, very good." You know this story, "Yes, no, very good"? No? There was one kansamar(?). So he was to go home, so he asked his friend that "So long I am not here, you serve European master." So he said, "I do not know English. How can I serve him?" "No, no, no. These three words will do: 'yes, no, very good.' " Then he was engaged. (laughs) Then one day from the master's room something was missing. So he asked the new servant, "You have taken it?" "Yes." (laughter) Then he asked him, "Return it." "No." (laughter) "Oh, then I shall hand you over to the police." "Very good." (laughter) Then when the police came, he was won..., "Sir, what is this? You have...?" "No, I do not know this." Then he was explained, that "I understand these three words only: 'yes, no, very good.' " That's all.

Devotee (2): It's very wet.

Prabhupāda: Let us walk little more. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Oh, yes, it is very wet. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything will come out very good. But the rascals will not do that. That is the difficulty. They will make plan. (aside:) Which way? Kṛṣṇa's plan they will not take. That is the difficulty.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: But he does not know who is the Supreme God.

Guest (3): But Swamiji, Indian culture, although is (Hindi). Then why you are telling a king...

Prabhupāda: Indian culture is given (Hindi), that to allow them to worship the demigods means at least to accept the authority, and then they gradually come to the supreme authority. Just like for the common man, to give respect to the police constable means giving respect to the government. But the police constable is not the president of the government. So one should know who is the president. That is advancement. If you remain, simply offering respect to the constable, that is not advancement.

Guest (4): Indian philosophy has always taught that light comes from many lamps. But you are preaching that...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Brahmānanda: He says Indian culture has always taught that light comes from many lamps.

Guest (4): But you are preaching... (loud static)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the supreme light. There are degrees of light. There is sunlight, and there is this light. You cannot compare this light with sun. (laughter) Light are so many, but that does not mean the sunlight and this light is the same.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Praison? (?)

Gokulendra: Yes. The police stopped us after about half an hour.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They went into the European area yesterday for chanting, Saturday morning. Usually we do the Indian area in Durban. But in Johannesburg we only do the European area saṅkīrtana. We have no trouble there. They say that Durban, being very much... Did the truck go? Yes? Why doesn't Prabhupāda go back in the truck?

Devotee: It's stuck in the sand. We'll have to push to make the wheels straight.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So let Prabhupāda come back in the truck. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...have gone too much in the sand. It is dangerous. (break) ...panded so much, these Britishers, a few million people. This is demonic. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye manoratham: "I have got now so much. Now let me increase more." Never satisfied. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye mano: "I want to be the richest man, God." That was the British policy-ambition. Material ambition is like that. It increases more and more. (break) ...British buildings or American?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: South African.

Prabhupāda: South African.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Soul, your... It will take many millions of years to understand soul, but this is your position; you understand it, that you'll be kicked out at any moment. Why don't you understand this? There is no question of understanding soul. That is far away. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes over pay, that they're not getting enough money, they will riot. And the white policemen, they come and shoot them.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Simply shoot them.

Prabhupāda: Shoot.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kill them.

Prabhupāda: Hm. They are keeping them in control. That is the way they should be kept in control, śūdras. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...very anti-Communist. They have an anti-Communist terrorism act. Anyone who is too much leading in their Communist ideas, they put them away. They have an island called Robert's Island. They simply detain them there indefinitely. (break) Very stable. Very stable.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is nice.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: The government officer, responsible post, they are offered to the Indians? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Government?

Prabhupāda: Government responsible post.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The police?

Prabhupāda: No, not police. Any responsible office. They are equally open? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They have facility. The philosophy of the government is that they have separate development. This is why they call it a apartheid. They have separate hospitals for the Indians. They have separate schools.

Prabhupāda: And for the black?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: For the Africans? They don't have so much now. Very poor facility.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So the government gives facilities to the Indians, but separately.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: So I can kill you; I am your guru.

Harikeśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Who can say anything? I can kill you. Why police is there? I can say, "He is my disciple. He has fully surrendered. I can kill him." That's all. Will that argument save me from police action?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. The child is so dependent on the mother, if the mother mistreats the opportunity, she also is punished.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: But if the child would cause the mother so much anxiety...

Prabhupāda: Don't talk like foolish. Don't talk of that. It is waste of time. If it is the property of the mother, mother can kill at any time. Why at a certain point if the mother kills child she is hanged? If the mother has got the liberty to kill the child, she can kill at any time.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Indian lady (3): Can we purchase the house for our own staying?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because this is necessary. You must have some shelter; you must eat; you must cover. That is necessary. So you do it. Grow food first of all to feed yourself sumptuously. You must get strength, and that is needed. But not for trade. The policy should be that you should be self-sufficient and save time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is wanted. Yavad-ārtha prayojanam. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi-daḥ. You shall eat whatever you require for proper upkeep of the body, not eating too much and sleeping whole day. Don't do that. Eat only what is absolutely necessary. Then you'll never be in want. People are engaged in material civilization means they are increasing the bodily demands, unnecessary. Just like this park. Why we have come to this park? We like this atmosphere. So similarly, in villages, everyone, if he has got some land, he can live simply without any gorgeous building. What is the use? Just have a cottage and have garden. You'll live very peacefully. But they're constructing big, big skyscraper building in the downtown, and they will have to come here by car for some peace of mind, and in the meantime, accident, police. This is the civilization, nonsense civilization. At weekend they will go to the village, country, and during the week-time they will work hard. This is their civilization, with the risk of life, running motor car eighty miles' speed. Every moment there is risk. What is this civilization? Most ludicrous civilization. So farming means if you live in a farm... Just like in New Vrindaban they are doing. Produce your own food, live peacefully, fresh vegetable, fresh grains, fresh milk, and prepare so many nice milk preparation, kachori, halavā with ghee. Offer to the Deity. Eat sufficiently. What is the use of going outside? Simple life and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you can organize that, that will be very nice.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Plucked out.

Cyavana: Then he was shot.

Brahmānanda: Then he was shot.

Prabhupāda: African?

Brahmānanda: There was a big scandal because the police were implicated.

Prabhupāda: This parking plan are made by them?

Brahmānanda: I don't know.

Cyavana: The park itself?

Prahupada: Yes.

Cyavana: This park? The British. They designed all these parks and roads.

Brahmānanda: I know that other park-yesterday or the other day we went—that was done by the British. They've taken plants from all over East Africa.

Prabhupāda: All these buildings are constructed by the Britishers.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Indian man (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Parliament can do that "We have no faith." What is called? "No confidence." "No confidence resolution." The Parliament has not done. "No confidence." So how the court can decide? (break) An open fact that this election... All elections are done illegally. So why this poor prime minister is captured? Everyone does. (Hindi) (break) Military police.

Indian man (2): Yes, Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is occupying very exalted post, even in this material world, he is favored by Kṛṣṇa. Sanātana Gosvāmī, when the Nawab said that "I shall arrest you," then he replied that "You are representative of God, so if you arrest me I have no objection." He said that. He was Mohammedan, and he was a Hindu brāhmaṇa. He never felt that "How the Mohammedan can arrest me?" No. He said that "You are representative of God because you are in such exalted post." (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Kṛṣṇa also says, "Anyone who is, materially even, very opulent, that means he has got some power." (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) (break) ...in politics, how to treat with enemies, how to treat with friends, how to make... In politics there are so many things, diplomacy. So he said, "What is this nonsense? Everyone should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. They are all equal." His father became angry.

Morning Walk -- November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). That is the injunction, sadā. Sadā means always.

Devotee (3): Well, if one is not able to do that in the beginning... For instance, if during twenty-four hours...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we are constructing temples. At least you will think, "We are constructing Kṛṣṇa's temple." Because you are habituated to work, work for Kṛṣṇa. Go to sell books. Print books. Type for Kṛṣṇa. This is also the same thing. Because you are accustomed to all these things, so nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandha. When it is connected with Kṛṣṇa it is as good as chanting. Therefore we are so much eager. Otherwise there is no need of temple; we can chant anywhere. But that stage is not so easy, like Haridāsa Ṭhākura we can sit down and chant anywhere. That is not possible. Then you'll sleep. Therefore these things are required. Everyone, we are working for this temple. Every one of us, we know that "This temple not for my sense gratification: This is for Kṛṣṇa." So that is important. The police commissioner is thinking, "It is nuisance." Huh? Police commissioner is thinking it is nuisance. But we are not thinking it is nuisance. We are not so fool. The politicians, the police commissioner, they'll think of, "He is my enemy; he is my friend." That is their occupation. They'll never think of Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Who prevents them, sir? māyā.

Prabhupāda: No. He wanted this; therefore māyā is there.

Dr. Patel: So that their position may go on.

Prabhupāda: Police is not first. First you become a thief; then police is there, not that police comes and arrest you unnecessary. No. As soon as you become criminal, then police comes and arrest you. māyā comes next. If you give up your natural attraction for Kṛṣṇa, if you are attracted by this material enjoyment, then māyā is there. Again if you try to...

Dr. Patel: But material, all material, is made up of māyā.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Nothing is made by māyā. māyā is made by God.

Dr. Patel: And material is, nothing but the transformation of māyā, is it not?

Prabhupāda: No. No. māyā means something false. Nobody makes anything. Everything is made by... Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Kṛṣṇa is the creator of everything. māyā is also created by Kṛṣṇa. So just like government creates police department. But police department is made for that person who violates the laws of God. The police department is creation of government. Similarly, māyā's business is to capture, arrest the criminal who has gone against God, capture him. Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). Mam aprapyaiva. This is the arrangement. Nobody is independent. Everything. Therefore it is called sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. So māyā is also Brahman. māyā is also Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Why māyā is different from God? It is creation of God. Mama māyā, Kṛṣṇa says. Mama māyā. So how māyā can be... The difference is police cannot arrest the president. Now it has been proved in the law. The president, the prime minister, they cannot be interfered by the police or law. That is good judgment. If the head of the estate is also interfered by police, that does not look well. So this judgment is very nice. Therefore in English constitution the first word is "The king can do no wrong." You cannot accuse king of doing wrong. Whatever he does, it is all right.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is required. That is education. This is not education. They are killing the teachers. They are killing teachers. You do not know?

Dr. Patel: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: In the examination hall the police is there, and if the guard detects, "Oh, you are taking notes from books," then he will be killed. So many teachers have been killed.

Indian man (3): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Police, under police they are. I saw in Delhi. One school I went, and the police is there, examination room, but all thieves, rascals. And they are sitting in examination for passing, all rascals.

Dr. Patel: The modern education has become a farce in that dress.

Prabhupāda: Farce, yes. No education. Amongst the Marwaris, the respectable gentlemen, they don't send. They keep private teachers, paṇḍitas, for learning Sanskrit, English. They know that our, "My boy hasn't got to earn money. He has to sit here. That's all. Why he should be spoiled?" They know very well, "We can purchase these technologists."

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Secret? Why?

Alanath: Because otherwise they would immediately put you in prison.

Prabhupāda: Where? Here in India?

Alanath: No. In Europe, like in Switzerland. But when we go there for selling books people take them like anything, but you have to hide before the police very carefully.

Prabhupāda: Why? Why don't you take permission from the court?

Alanath: No. It's not possible.

Akṣayānanda: Have you applied?

Alanath: They have very strict laws. It's also been applied for.

Prabhupāda: No, you have to prove: "This is very important book of knowledge, so allow us a special."

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana:

Alanath: Yes. We used to go there sometimes, and it was very good. People took many many books, but sometimes they caught us, so...

Prabhupāda: No, if they caught, go to the jail and when there is trial you should explain that "This is very important book. The government should allow to sell."

Alanath: If the policemen liked us, but the law is strict.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to take defense from the law. You present in the court the professors' opinion, how they are giving standing order. Why the state should restrain distributing knowledge? Do they want to keep their men in darkness? You have to preach like that. (break)...University is the most important university in Europe. They read our books. They order standing order. So why this loafer state prohibit?

Alanath: ...these explanations, they always argue, "If we allow you to sell your books, then we must allow everybody to sell on the street."

Prabhupāda: No. But you must consider the importance of... (break) Everybody submits application for becoming high-court judge. Will it be granted? There must be discrimination. (break) Thank you very much for your kindness. Yes. I am very pleased. Thank you. (end)

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Harikeśa: He's always controlled at every moment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But he's... He prefers to be controlled by the laws of nature instead of by Kṛṣṇa. That is his misfortune. He is controlled, but he thinks, "I am free." That is ignorance. Mūḍha. Just like I am the state citizen. I am not free. I must work according to the state laws. But he (thinks), "I shall... I don't care for government." That is my foolishness. You have to care. At home I can say to my wife, "I don't care for government, I don't care for the police." But when there is crime, when the police comes, then he says "Ohh." (pulls a sad face-laughter) He can be very much proud before his wife, "I don't care for anything." But when the police comes, "What can I do?" (Hindi) There is an example that the, what is called, mūrgī? What you call? Toast? No. Host? No. What is called? Mūrgī, mūrgī? Chicken? The male, male?

Akṣayānanda: Rooster.

Haṁsadūta: Rooster.

Prabhupāda: Rooster?

Woman: Cock?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the, when in the morning, it is let loose, then he says, "I don't care for any hahaa, cawcaw." Then in the evening, when they are pushed into the, that what is called? Nest? "Cawcawcawcaw. Whatever you like you can do, whatever you like you can do." (laughter) This is the example. You see? When he's under the arrest, "Now sir, whatever you like, you do with me. If you like you can excuse me." (laughter) And when he's out, "I don't care for anyone." Mūrgī intelligence. Rooster intelligence. This is our proposal. "I don't care for anyone. I am God." Mūrgī logic. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12), if one is not a devotee, his only business is to remain on the mental platform and concoct things. And at the end he thinks that "I am God." Concoction. Therefore it is said in the śāstra, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12). One who is not a devotee, he has no good qualification. He is simply on the, hovering on the mental platform.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: That's a fact. If you are doing work tad-arthaṁ karma, then you become mukta, because there is no, I mean, taking with you anything. Mukta-saṅgaḥ samācara.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like government servant, soldiers, they are killing so many; they are not responsible, because he's doing for the government. Police beats you, but he cannot bring any charge against the police. Another man, if he little slaps, you can bring charge, immediately. That is tad-arthaṁ karma kaunteya. The police and military department, they are doing for the government.

Dr. Patel: (break) ...eḥ? Very good discussion we had this morning. And we thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) (laughs)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) is sufficient. If you get one man who follows you, he is more than thousands who is...

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you attend daily, I can speak daily.