Police (Conversations 1968 - 1973)

Expressions researched:
"police" |"police's" |"policeman" |"policeman's" |"policemen"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Have they encountered any problems in, like out on the Hollywood Boulevard? Police action or telling them to move or...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Only that depends on the whims of the police. Sometimes they say, "You are blocking our roads." Sometimes, "Oh, you are doing nice." So that depends on their temperament.

Interviewer: How about from the crowd?

Prabhupāda: Crowd, of course, whenever there is crowd, it is natural—police do not like it. So we don't create crowd. But generally, people, out of inquisitiveness they gather together and see how they are chanting. They are sympathetic. They contribute. They purchase our books and literature. The people, public is sympathetic. The police are also sympathetic. They don't object when we go at night, but during busy hours, they object. So one of our students was arrested by the police. So he was taken to the court, and I gave them $315 for what is called? Bail. But he was not convicted. He was immediately liberated, and now our money was returned. So it is not a problem.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of sitting if you don't control your attention? Then you are simply wasting time. Why do you come? That is understood. When you come to hear, that means you must hear with attention. But this is a concession, that even if you don't hear with attention, you become purified. But if you do it, it is very nice. You make progress. You get the result very quickly. So success of life is to please Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, by one's occupational duty. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitena dharmena. Svanuṣṭhitena dharmena saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). One should try to satisfy the Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead. And Lord Caitanya also recommends that "You remain in your occupation. That doesn't matter. But you submissively try to hear." So we are giving this chance to the people "Please come and hear." But they are not prepared even for that thing. The age is so strong, the Kali-yuga, that it will dictate. Māyā will dictate, "Why you go there? What is there?" But actually, those who have come to us, those who are following, they are so much changed. That is a fact. They are seeing. They are hearing, "It will be." They are seeing, "It is." Still, they are not interested. Just like a class of men, they see that a person who has committed theft is arrested by police, and he is hearing that "If you commit theft, then you will be sinful or you will be caught by the laws of the state." So seeing and hearing, still he is committing theft. Why? By experience, practical experience, he is seeing that "Here is a man, committed theft. He is punished. He is going to be arrested by the police." And he has heard also that if somebody commits theft, he will be punished. So what do you want? Two things are required. Dekha śroṇa(?), seeing and hearing, for gaining knowledge. So he has got knowledge by seeing and hearing, but still... That means the heart is not clear. So this thing will be helpful for clearing the heart.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: Our process is to accept everything which conduces to develop Kṛṣṇa's love. So those methods are given by experienced ācāryas, that "You just follow." Just like when a child tries to walk, the mother gives some direction or some help in a wooden plank, that "You try to move in this way. You will learn how to walk," similarly, there are certain principles given by experienced ācāryas. If we follow those principles, then we can work or we can go to the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not the method that is important. The real important is how to develop your love of Kṛṣṇa. If somebody develops love of Kṛṣṇa, or God, without those methods, there is no objection. We are not limited by the methods or ritualistic methods. But there are certain ritualistic method, which, if one follows, then he can quickly learn the art of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like we restrict our students in four principles: illicit sex life and intoxication, gambling, and meat-eating. So it is not that a gambler or a meat-eater or a man addicted to illicit sex life, he cannot love Kṛṣṇa. It is not that. But that is very rare case. If he follows these principles, then it will be easier for him. Because Kṛṣṇa, or God is pure, so so long one is impure in his habits, it is not possible for him. So these are the purificatory processes. And so far our signals or some marks on the body—just like we take tilaka; we have some beads—this means... Just like it is practical. When I was in Montreal and other cities, when we passed through the road, the children, the persons, they also said, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" So these marks and this symbolic representation reminds others to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a policeman, as soon as he appears in his dress, "Oh, here is a policeman," so similarly, these things are also required to remind others. Our process is to raise persons to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if by our symbolic representation one immediately remembers Kṛṣṇa, that is our success.

Talk During Prasada After Kirtana -- November 8, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is this? Oh. For taking?

Viṣṇujana: Would you like a plate, Swamiji?

Prabhupāda: No, no. A sannyāsī should always take in his hand. That is the system. Not in a plate. That means if you take in a plate, you'll take much. (laughter) So in hand, he cannot take much. Kara-pātrī. That is the instruction. But in this age such strict laws cannot be followed. The Bhāgavata says that when there is flat grass cushion, why should you ask for bedding? When you have got natural pillow, this hand, why you ask for a pillow? Then when there is river, so much water, why do you stock water? When there are fruits in the tree, why do you go and beg? When there is cave, why you are searching after apartment? (laughs) When the old garments are thrown in the street, then why you are searching after clothing? These are the instructions. Completely free. Kasmād bhajanti kavayo dhana-durmadandhān (SB 2.2.5). Why should you go and flatter these monied men? That is complete independence. But those days are now gone. (laughs) It is a different age. Los Angeles, I think it is a good place. Hm? What is your...? Your problem solved?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good news. We went to the Hollywood police station and the man told us that part of the duty of the police station is to... He said he should protect religious people like us.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Hayagrīva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will feel relieved. So therefore the real thing is that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are artificially enjoying the stolen property. Therefore if you go on enjoying like that, then this frustration will come. But before coming to that frustration, if we return this property to Kṛṣṇa, then we become happy. So best thing is to return everything to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you will not be a loser. You will be gainer, just like Bali Mahārāja. Actually, if you think, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Nothing belongs to you. This is māyā. Kṛṣṇa's property you are thinking, "mine." Is this land of American belongs to you actually? It is stolen property. You have stolen from the Red Indians or from Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is, not you, everyone. Somebody is claiming, "This much my property," somebody is claiming, "This much my property," but this much or that much, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. It is stolen property. There is another example in Indian words, that hira cauri kiya abhicaurya, khira caurī kiyā abhicaura. Hira means diamond, and khīra means... What is that called? Cucumber, a small? So if somebody has stolen a cucumber from other's tree, so he is captured. And another man has stolen some diamond. He is also arrested. So from the police, both are thieves. If the man says, "Oh, what I have stolen? I have stolen a little cucumber. It is nothing, worth not even two cent or one cent. Why you are arresting me? He is thief. He has stolen a big diamond," no, in the eyes of law, he is also thief; he is also thief. Everyone is thief.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Kīrtanānanda: So his activities are never independent, either in Kṛṣṇa or...

Prabhupāda: Never, never, never. That is his insanity, another. As soon as he thinks that "I am independent," that is another insanity. He is under control. Just like the same man. He is thinking, "I don't care for state laws." He is insane. He will be forced to accept state laws in the prison house by the police. But he thinks, "Oh, I am free man." Still... He is slapped by the police. He says, "Oh, I am independent. Go on slapping." This is insanity. Is it not insanity? The police slaps him, and he says, "I am independent." Do you think independence? So that sort of independence we are having. We are kicked by māyā always, and we are thinking, "independent." This is insanity. He does not think, "Why I am independent? I am servant of my senses. I cannot remain, enjoying senses, for an hour, and I am thinking I am independent." That means insane. He cannot think properly. Where is his independence? Cannot be independent. He is born dependent because part and parcel of God. His constitutional position is dependent. Just like child. A child declares independence. What is the meaning of that independence? Danger. That's all. Simply inviting dangers. A child wants: "Oh, I don't care for my parents. I shall cross the road. I shall go everywhere." So if he is allowed to do that, that means he is simply inviting dangers. And if he remains under the protection of the parents, he is always safe. So this living entity's declaring independence means he is insane, different kinds of insanity. He cannot be independent. Let him think very deeply that it cannot be independent. He is thinking independent of God, but he is dependent on his sense pleasure. That's all.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Hayagrīva: It's a whole spirit but in certain circumstances we tend to forget this...

Prabhupāda: Material energy that's said by Kṛṣṇa aparā, inferior energy. Bhūmir āpo, bhūmir āpo analo, prakṛtir me bhinnā aṣṭadhā. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā (BG 7.5). So material energy is the covering energy, is also Kṛṣṇa. Just like police department is also government, but it is not very convenient because putting under police department. (laughter) That is also government department. For government the university department and the police are equally important. They are spending equally, are taking care of both the, but for us, "Oh, police department horrible." This man is under police department, police custody, and that man is in education.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, I'll tell you my feeling was is I was thinking about it from a lot of different angles. I was thinking about it from a lot of different viewpoints. One is that there is a lot of resentment of the President and of the government here from the young people who are going to be sent to war or who don't like the war. There is likely to be conflict here when the President comes. One reason this place was picked for the President to come was that it is relatively..., many, many police around here, this part, police state, very heavy, so that it would be dangerous to show aggression and to show real conflict. But there is all that energy that wants to express itself, and basically peaceful energy. So what I suggested was that they greet him by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa as a way of manifesting...

Prabhupāda: Very good. Very good suggestion. Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: I think it will make sense, because now there are a lot of students who know the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So they might do it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When he is coming?

Allen Ginsberg: One month from now. May, or is it June?

Hayagrīva: Commencement.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. In the meantime, you prepare the literature. You give me the literature. I'll get it printed somehow or other. You give me the synopsis. Both you consult, make a literature. And as soon as the literature is prepared, you will be out with that. And we have got so many centers. There is no difficulty of staying. He can stay in some center and go and see the important men there. He is educated. He is learned. He has known our philosophy. He can convince people. He can arrange a big meeting of respectable men. They must know what we are doing, the importance of this movement. And your people, your government, is anxious to have something tangible because there are already frustration in so many departments, in so many factions. So this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, will, I mean to say, smooth everything, pave everything. So they must know. And our process is very simple. We can introduce this process even in factories, even in anywhere, and we make peaceful everything. That is a fact. School, college, university, factory, everywhere. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ (CC Antya 20.12). It is cleansing process. Everything is dirty. So we want to cleanse and make people peaceful and happy. That is our mission. We are not money-collecting mission, that "Give me your money, and let me enjoy." We are not that. Money, we have got much money. Kṛṣṇa is our... The whole money is Kṛṣṇa's. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Kṛṣṇa is so valuable, if one gets Kṛṣṇa, he wants no more anything. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi: "I am now satisfied. I don't want anything." Like Dhruva Mahārāja. So you are giving Kṛṣṇa so that people will be so happy he will say, "Oh, I don't want anything. Now I have got the thing." You are distributing Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te (CC Madhya 19.53). Caitanya Mahaprabhu was adored by Rūpa Gosvāmī, "Oh, You are the most munificent incarnation. You are distributing Kṛṣṇa-prema." So we have taken that job. So people must know our importance. So outside propaganda is required. Don't you think it is required? Yes. So make literature. Make nice literature with picture, we get it printed, and then, in the meantime, you try to see things, how it can be managed. And let him move outside. As I am moving, he will move. And if some other boys who are determined to remain brahmacārī, not to marry...They can also take up. Brahmācari and sannyāsī is meant for moving. Yes. Gṛhastha cannot move because they have to earn. They have to maintain. But the brahmacārīs, they will go and beg contribution. A sannyāsī will make the situation favorable. Just like if now a little more, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is known, if some brahmacārī goes, that "We come from the..." Just like in San Francisco it happened. One of our brahmacārīs was arrested. So when he was taken into police custody, the officer said, "Oh, he is Swami's man. Let him go. Let him go out." Yes. Actually happened so. Similarly, in New York also happened. They were arrested in the subways, and when they were taken in the police custody, he also, "Oh, they are doing nice work. Let them go." (chuckling) So we must make the situation—people will know that they are doing some good work. And when the brahmacārīs go there to beg some contribution, they will be glad: "Oh, yes, they are doing nice work." So we have to do outside propaganda. First of all you make this literature, as I suggested. That you have got. You consult, both together. You do it, and I shall get it printed, at least a few thousand, five thousand or ten thousand. And then Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja will go to stay in every center for some days and make, see the important men and convince. That is necessary. Give me water.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You can make scene that people, His disciples, are performing kīrtana and one scene you can make Kazi, Muslim magistrate, is sitting, and the brāhmaṇas, they come. "Sir, you are our protector. You are Kazi. You are magistrate. And this Nimāi Paṇḍita, young boy, He is creating so much disturbance." "What is that?" "He has begun this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is not our Hindu religion. He is chanting so loudly. Now this is the time God is sleeping. So He'll be disturbed. So the whole society will be vanquished if God becomes angry. So He'll be disturbed." So Kazi... After all, Hindus are complaining. So Kazi said, "All right, I am taking steps." So he sent some officers. And they were playing mṛdaṅga, and warned that "You cannot do this. You are disturbing here." That is going on still. Just like our Los Angeles, it is going on. In New York also, they complain to the Kazi, (laughs) police officer. But they could not do anything. So this complaint is going on since the inauguration of the saṅkīrtana movement. So Kazi first of all warned. Then He did not care. Then the police also came and broke the mṛdaṅgas forcibly. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "All right. We shall start thousands of men playing mṛdaṅga, and we shall go to the house of Kazi. Let us see what can he do." So He went with many followers, and many followers playing mṛdaṅga, and Kazi became afraid that "The people have become agitated." So he fled away.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is to restrict. Just like government opens liquor shop. That does not mean government is encouraging to drink. Those who are drunkard, going create disturbance, for them there is little concession, but they are responsible. If they become drunkard and causes some disturbance in the street, then he will be arrested by the police. He cannot say, "Oh, I have paid for the bottle." (Hindi) The bhakti is all-inclusive. (Explains Brahman, Paramātmā, Bhagavān in Hindi) Brahmā-jñāna means, just like sunlight. You understand sunlight. That does not mean that you know sun disc. But both of them are light.

Guest (9): The Brahma-jñāna has got a limited jurisdiction.

Prabhupāda: It is these things that... This is the... just like ordinary...(Hindi) Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa bhūtaṁ... (Bs. 5.40). (Hindi)

Guest (9): Different stages? Are there different stages?

Prabhupāda: Different features. Just like Sūryaloka or Sūryadeva or Sūrya-raśmi. (Hindi)

Guest (9): I see.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 6, 1971, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...therefore they are coming to these things. Process of killing is different because in this age if you simply kill all the pāpīs, then there will be no more existence because everybody is pāpī. If you take sword and kill the pāpīs, then everybody will be finished. Of course, that will be done at the last stage of Kali-yuga. But here the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is killing the pāpa-bīja. Pāpa-bīja means just like a man is a thief. He knows that "If I steal, according to śāstra, I'll be punished by God. Or there is no god. Then I'll be punished by the state, by the police." He knows that. And he sees also that one man who has committed theft, he is arrested and he is taken by the police. He has seen also. But still he does stealing. He knows either from the state point of view or śāstra point of view, and he sees practically. Still he does it. Why? Pāpa-bīja. In the heart the seed of committing sinful activities is there. So simply by seeing or knowing, it will not be killed. It has to be killed by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. He should be purified from the heart he'll give up everything. So this killing process is paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). So this pāpa-bīja, the seed of sinful activities, is being killed. Otherwise, how people give up all the sinful activities? Because the pāpa-bīja, the original seed, is being killed away. You see practically.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Sister Mary: What law can arrest you?

Devotee: Well, we fought this out in the court here and the magistrate allowed that we can chant. There is no law who can stop chanting. But the police, authorities, they say, well, "You are obstructing the traffic." And under that we are arrested.

Prabhupāda: They can find out anything.

Devotee: An excuse. It's an excuse.

Revatīnandana: "Blocking the traffic, disturbing the peace..."

Haṁsadūta: Anyway, the original purpose of America was to have religious freedom. Therefore they left England.

Revatīnandana: There is constitutional guarantee...

Haṁsadūta: So they still have some respect for people who are trying to glorify God.

Prabhupāda: In American in every court case, we win. (laughter)

Revatīnandana: Well, we lost here several times.

Devotee: Last, year, when we went to the police authorities for our procession here, and we wanted to make three rathas and the police officer, he was so envious, he said, "No. There is no law, we can put three rathas on the street." We said, "What is the harm? Won't you give us protection?" "So many people will be dying and killed under the ratha. If the ratha is so big and all that. People will be killed." I said, "They are big all over the world. This is for God consciousness."

Prabhupāda: So many people are dying by motor accidents, but do they stop motor car?

English guest: Do you think the situation will get better in London.

Devotee: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Revatīnandana: Wherever there is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa going on, things will get better.

Guest (2): Say, if the average London policeman, if he could be convinced to chant.

Revatīnandana: Convinced? No. Some of them are less hostile, some of them more hostile, naturally. We can chant on one side of Oxford St., but we cannot chant on the other side of the street because there's two different police departments. It's like that. There is no hard and fast way to figure it out. You just have to try it and see.

Devotee: One night at Picadilly Circus we were eight and four were arrested, and four other people, no, they let them go. So I said, "No, I was arrested." (laughter) When they went to the court, Prabhupāda, they got one pound five each... They were altogether eight, and four were arrested. They also doing the same offense. It is same offense. So he said, "All right, let them go."

Guest (2): Can I ask about your rate... about growth? How, can ask how the movement is growing? Can you give me any figures at all? I was speaking to one of your colleagues earlier who mentioned 150, but seventy-five approximately which were in London. Are the figures growing week by week?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I started this movement alone, and now there are eight thousand.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They eat man also. Yes. There was a case in Calcutta, they were eating man. They will call a hawker, "Come in, I shall purchase." And as soon as he enters, he never comes back. There were two hawkers. So one entered the house and other was waiting. But when he saw that he is not coming, he went to the police, that "My friend, he went but he is not coming." The police inquired and made a search, whole house, there were so many human bones, they're eating. Man-eater. Man-eater, in Africa there are many.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're called cannibals.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're called cannibals.

Prabhupāda: That is also. And they eat white man very... They like white.

Yadubara: In the pot.

Prabhupāda: They will mislead some white man and... In India also there is this class. In Assam side. They eat man. Man means they regularly sacrifice before the Goddess Durgā and eat. (indistinct), Rāvaṇa's brother. The Red Indians, they also eat in America. Do they not?

Yamunā: They used to. There are no left anymore.

Prabhupāda: "Used to" means who knows what they are doing now.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Explain... Any group of men, they have got a particular type of dress, the military dress, the police dress. So people can understand that "Here is a police." Similarly, by this dress they will chant, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" immediately. That is our experience. As soon as they will see these people, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," and if they will criticize our, anything, we want that people see us and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That we want. Simply by seeing us they will remember Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is great advancement. Indirectly that is our propaganda, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Bhūrijana: Albert Einstein, he said that "I cannot believe that the highest material principle is chance." He's a material scientist. He said, "I cannot believe..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. Actually, if one is actually learned, scientific, he must admit. He must admit, unless he is a lunatic, rascal. He will say all these nonsense things, "Chance." Why chance? What is taking place within your practical experience by chance? If by prearrangement we would not come here, then who would care for it? Even on the street we could not lie down. Nobody allow. the police will arrest. "Who are these men?" How do you say chance? Everything is done by prearrangement. The chance is an explanation given by the rascals and fools. They are not sane men. There cannot be anything by chance. We got up on the train, and the train is running, and it is all chance? There is a huge management behind the train. Therefore we are comfortably seated, and we come to the destination right in the time. All these are chances? What is that...? He has written such a big book. What is his reason that chance? What reason he has given? I have not read. You have read?

Pradyumna: No.

Conversation in car -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. Some new devotees are joining us in our all centers?

Karandhara: Yes. Not so many as before, but the ones that are coming are much more fixed up. Before some would... Ten would come and seven would leave. But now they don't come so much, but when they come, they stay.

Prabhupāda: They stay. (sings softly) The students dress like policemen?

Sudāmā: Yes. They all wear uniform.

Karandhara: Right now there are twelve brahmacārīs in Los Angeles who are getting ready to go to India.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Karandhara: They'll be going on about the 5th of May, the 6th of May. I think also the same number in New York are preparing to go.

Prabhupāda: Now we have got enough place. Yes. Very nice place, Vṛndāvana. And we are expected to get another place at Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's birth place. Oh, that is very nice place also. (end)

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: You cannot say that I have got a different faith. I do not care for the laws of God. If it is a law... Just like, for example, here in the state, if you kill somebody, then you have to pay for it with your life. So if that is the law in your state, why a similar law in broader sense is not there in the courts of God, law..., law of God? You can avoid the arrest by the police and punishment by the state law by tricks, but you cannot avoid by tricks the law of God. That is not possible. If you violate the law of God, then you will be punished. If you violate the law..., just like if you touch fire your hand will be burned, so this law you cannot violate. Either you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim, if you touch fire, the law of God is that it will burn. So it will not care for you whether you are Hindu, Muslim, Christian. So law of God is applicable to everyone. Either you are Hindu or Muslim or Christian or you have got this faith or that faith, doesn't matter. So we have got such a God whose laws are equally respectable.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1972, San Diego:

Devotee (1): For fuel.

Prabhupāda: That's all. For burning. There is no fruits and flowers. (break)

Devotee (1): ...come on shore and get drunk and make trouble. They have their own police.

Prabhupāda: Military has their own police.

Devotee (1): Yeah.

Prabhupāda: They are so pious and advanced in civilization, the students require police. The dean has publicly requested police, and still they are very much proud of advancement.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The police steals too.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): Especially in New York.

Prabhupāda: And police also requires another police. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12).

Ātreya Ṛṣi: All these Indians coming to this country to benefit, maybe we should go to India to take care of Vṛndāvana and all these other lands.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, this movement is there.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Will we be someday in charge of those?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, we are already in charge. You simply take charge. Your appointment is already there; simply go and take charge over.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: That you can ask these boys. They will instruct you.

Bob Cohen: Could you tell me what is the difference between, uh.... Kṛṣṇa controls everything, so how, how does Kṛṣṇa control a nondevotee?

Prabhupāda: By māyā. By having... Just like government controls everything. A criminal is controlled by the police department.

Bob Cohen: And how does Kṛṣṇa control a devotee?

Prabhupāda: Just like you control your beloved. Just like you have got a beloved child. So you control him, for his benefit. If he's going to touch fire, you immediately say to him, "No, no, my dear child, don't touch it." So a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, devotee, he is never misled, because Kṛṣṇa is always guiding him, whereas those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they're in charge of māyā, and māyā will do the needful, as you have seen(?).

Bob Cohen: Is is preset when we're born, the time that we'll die?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bob Cohen: Is the time that I'm going to die, and everybody going to die, is this preset before they're born? Do I have, when I'm born, do I have a certain given lifespan?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Why civilized? Do you think it is especially civilized?

Devotee: Well, a lot more than America anyway. By comparison it seems civilized, in the sense that there is not so much violence. There's not... People are honest, upright, moral, a little more.

Prabhupāda: In America general life is becoming wretched.

Devotee: Wretched. Police don't even carry guns here.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: Policemen don't even carry guns in Britain, but in America every policeman's got at least one gun.

Prabhupāda: The Englishman... I've studied Englishman. They consider America is still uncivilized. They say like that. (indistinct)

Devotee: Still uncivilized, yeah.

Prabhupāda: But here also hippy-ism growing.

Devotee: They've lost that old aristocracy civilization. Losing it fast.

Prabhupāda: So write Girirāja immediately a letter, that she agreed to be president of the trust. You make a trust body for fund-raising, and our best life members, like Sumati Morarji, and make her the president of the trust. You remain the secretary, and other also, as treasurer also. One or two of her own men.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1973, Jakarta:

Devotee: He speaks English.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So you can understand English then. So (Sanskrit). Duṣkṛtinaḥ means... kṛtiḥ means meritorious, very meritorious. But duṣkṛtiḥ. Whatever merit he has got... Nowadays at the present moment the civilization is so mad that everyone as human being... Any human being he has got some merit because he is not cat and dog. He's a man. As a man he has got brain, better than the cats and dogs. That's a fact. And actually they're doing so many things. Just like this picture. It is a very meritorious workmanship. So everyone can do some meritorious workmanship. But when that workmanship is diverted to, for the use of sinful activities... Just like one man is very meritorious, he's planning to form a party how to plunder. This requires merit. Without merit you cannot form a party. But the merit is being used for plundering, for harassing, for so many other sinful activities. So that is called duṣkṛtinaḥ. Merit is there but the merit is being misused for sinful activities. Therefore duṣkṛtiḥ. Just like modern scientist. It is meritorious that they have discovered the atomic bomb. The merit is used for killing. If you just use your merit so that man may live; that they're dying. Everyone is dying. So you have discovered a bomb which will accelerate death. Death, everyone is going to die. So if you manufacture something which will actually help my death, is that very meritorious? If you discover something that will stop my death, that is meritorious. But everyone is dying and you have discovered some machine so that you can die quickly. What is the merit? But people are appreciating, "Oh, this is meritorious." This is called duṣkṛtiḥ. Duṣkṛtiḥ, mean one has got merit, it is being spoiled for doing something wrong. This is called duṣkṛtiḥ. So such people, duṣkṛtinaḥ, who, one who is using the merit for sinful activities, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. He cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15) and rascal. Rascal means denying the existence of God. He's a rascal. Anyone who denies the existence of God, he's a rascal. Rascal means poor fund of knowledge. Everything... Suppose this is a country, Indonesia, nicely being managed; the roads are there; the policemen there, they're directing... Just yesterday we were trying to enter in a one way, policeman directs. So this symptom says that there is a good government. So any sane man, he'll see the cosmic manifestation—that the sun is rising exactly in time; the moon is rising exactly in time; the seasons are changing; the seas is in its position. Just like the Pacific Ocean at any moment it can overflow at any place. But it does not do so. You walk... I was walking in Los Angeles just about three feet away from the sea.

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You should not do anything which may provoke some kind of...

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So, best thing was to say that he is not in good (indistinct) now, say to me that he is incorrigible. (indistinct) He may be one day, once, twice, if he does not follow, then you shall ask him just to please leave this place. That's all. That should be offered. We should also... The police said that when I told him that our regulation is that everyone should get up at four, so he immediately, "I don't see anyone who is rising at four." Nobody. What can I answer?

Devotee: How can he say that Śrīla Prabhupāda? How can he see if anyone is rising at four or not?

Prabhupāda: Now here is the (indistinct). He says that nobody rises early in the morning. Just like yourself.

Śyāmasundara: But he is rising.

Devotee: I am, I am rising.

Prabhupāda: He is rising, but others!

Pañcadraviḍa: Some others are rising, not, not all, but some of them are rising.

Śyāmasundara: The whole point is that the sannyāsīs must see that that standard is kept to the highest. That's their job. That's why you've taken...

Prabhupāda: But that should be observed and peacefully it should be settled. If it is not peacefully settled, the man who will continually disobey, he should be respectfully asked, "Please go home.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: The frogs, croaking, yes.

Prabhupāda: Ca ca canh, ca ca canh, ca ca canh, ca ca canh, ca ca canh... That's all. They're thinking: "Oh, we're talking very nicely." The result is the snake, they find out here is a (unclear). Pop. Finish. So this ca ca canh, scientists, means when death comes, oh, everything's finished. That's all. All their ca ca canh, scientific investigation, finished. And he becomes a dog, cat and something like that. That's all. Therefore mūḍhāḥ. They do not know that "I have got this valuable life, human form of life, advanced intelligence. I'll have to take lesson from Kṛṣṇa, and make my life successful." They do not know that. Ca ca canh, ca ca canh, ca ca canh, ca ca canh. And then die, and become again. When he dies, there is no question of science and talking nonsense. That is under the grip of nature. "Yes, come on. Enter this body. Finished." Just like the rascal rogue. He's very much proud of his strength. And the police comes arrest: "Come on. Enter this custody. Finished." It is like that.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: We have to teach life from life, not from matter. Just against. And if you come out... Not if. You must. Because we are standing on truth. They are standing on untruth.

Brahmānanda: One police car is coming.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa

Police: Good morning.

Prabhupāda: Good morning. That is police car?

Brahmānanda: No, he's the engineer I think.

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma, harer nāma, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Sattvam... There is an Indian government slogan, sattvam eva...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sattvam eva jayate.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So this is sattvaṁ jayate. It must come out triumphant. We have to try for... How foolishly they are propagating a false theory, and amongst themselves self-complacent, getting prize, eulogization. What is this nonsense? Expose them. Bluffing. The bluffing should be exposed. What you are doing here?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What they are doing here?

Śrutakīrti: I think they have been taking out those posts from the sand. A little dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Dangerous, why?

Śrutakīrti: When the water covers them, they can't be seen. Someone can get hurt on them.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: Fall down?

Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, "yes, you go." Just like nobody is interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Do you think everyone is interested? So. They want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like some of our students, Kṛṣṇa conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that. Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare, nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare (Prema-vivarta). The police is there. Just like the police car was there. We have nothing to do with it. But if you do anything criminal, immediately you will be arrested, under police custody. The māyā may be there, but māyā captures him who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Therefore, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, māyā does not interfere anymore."

Paramahaṁsa: So our desire to enjoy, we achieve these bodies; and our desire to achieve Kṛṣṇa brings us to our natural position.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Well, reaction will come.

Prabhupāda: Reaction already come. They do not...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Sure to come... Reaction, reaction.

Prabhupāda: So they found one of my Bhagavad-gītā in the immigration. So immediately he called police. (laughs) Then he, he examined. He allowed, "All right, it is all right. It is such a rubbish." But they are not very happy country, as they advertise.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What is happiness? God is happiness.

Prabhupāda: Now, apart from materially, they're poor.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha...

Prabhupāda: This is...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...anudarśanam. So they are poor in intelligence. This is sattvic intelligence. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9).

Prabhupāda: Anudarśanam.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Divide up higher kind of intelligence.

Prabhupāda: The Russian professor...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And the scientific fineness that is also in the jurisdiction of matter. But a more subtle and subtler knowledge is possible.

Prabhupāda: Now we are presenting through two of my scientific students, Doctor of Chemistry, that matter is, the source of matter is spirit. This is our theory. Generally they believe the life, life comes from matter...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Life comes from matter.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: Pre-youthtime, kiśora.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Pre-youthtime. And there it stands. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Have we got bael nuts also, with our garden?

Devotee: Separate.

Prabhupāda: Oh, separate. Yes, bael nut is separate. That police officer, Ashe(?), district magistrate...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Was re-elected. (Bengali) ...on the real basis of this downpour of the civilized people here. (Bengali conversation for some time)

Prabhupāda: If you manufacture one palanquin... Palanquin. You know palanquin? Then sometimes you can carry Śrīdhara Mahārāja there. Yes. It will be great service and benefit for you. Because he's, he's very now...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Feeble.

Prabhupāda: Feeble now. So palanquin is all right. He can be carried in palanquin.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Now, this is the palanquin.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That king should be a representative of God. That is ideal king. But if he thinks that "This kingdom is my property, and let me enjoy for my sense enjoyment," then it is all gone. If he thinks himself as representative of God... Just like we think. Therefore we are after our disciples: "Do this, do that, do that, do that." We want to see that my disciples also become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Similarly, it is the king's duty to see that every citizen becomes God conscious. Then he is representative of God. That is the first duty. The division must be there, and the, it is the duty of the king to see that everyone is discharging according to his responsibility. That is king's duty. A brāhmaṇa is acting exactly like brāhmaṇa. The kṣatriya is acting exactly like kṣatriya. A vaiśya is... Like that. It is the duty of a king to see that nobody's unemployed, everyone is engaged in his own occupational duty. That is the... And they must feel security of life, property, anxiety. That is perfect king. Here, at the present moment, nobody is confident whether he'll live after an hour or... You see. Anyone can take your property and life, at any moment. There is no protection. There is no protection. And so far anxiety, there is no length and breadth. People are always full of anxieties. Unemployment. These things should not be there. No unemployment, no anxiety, no feelings of insecurity. And that is good government. Nowadays there are police force. But what is the use of this police force? You go on the street, somebody stabs you, what police can do? If somebody takes away your money from your personal pocket, what the police can do? They'll take some note.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: That's right. If ...one boy who stole from us, I told the police. We told them exactly where he was, at the airport, Manchester. "He's going on flight such and such to America tomorrow." Plenty of time to apprehend him. They didn't do anything.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Śyāmasundara: They came... Oh, they sent one inspector to take notes.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Śyāmasundara: Many notes.

Prabhupāda: Useless, all... And taxation. No security and ninety-nine per cent taxation. Just see the fun. They are very much accurate to take taxation. And there is no guarantee of security. This is the position.

David Wynne: Has it ever been perfect?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

David Wynne: Has it ever been on earth in the material world perfect with...?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

David Wynne: It has.

Prabhupāda: Five thousand years ago, it was all perfect. The whole world, this planet, was being ruled by one king. And they were all happy. That is in the history. Five thousand years ago. Maybe less, in three thousand years ago the history was different. The difficulty is that as soon as one is lost of his culture, he becomes an animal. Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the difference between human being and animal. Human being must be with culture. Animal cannot be cultured. So a human being without culture, he's no better than animal. That culture is lost. They have missed the aim of life.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: It is very nice. It is, what is called, nonviolent. We ask everyone, "Come and join." You saw our procession yesterday?

David Wynne: No, I didn't. I wasn't there.

Prabhupāda: I see. Many thousand people joined us. From two o'clock up to eight o'clock. Six hours. At last, the police had to ask them to go away. Is it not? Who told me that? Eh?

Mukunda: I didn't know. I know they were...

Prabhupāda: They were not leaving Trafalgar Square. So it is a very nice movement, very serious movement. You are known to so many big, big men. Try to induce them to understand this serious movement. If leading takes something seriously, others follow.

David Wynne: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, the world situation is not very good. And it will deteriorate more and more if they do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. When I speak "Kṛṣṇa," that means God.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Small children cut up. And there was another case in Calcutta. The, one Chinaman, he was eating human being. And then... (break) ...some Kancawala (?) (beggar) him called, and then captured and killed him. This was going on. Later on, when police enquiry was made, so many human...

Guest (2): Bones...

Guest (4): Skeletons.

Prabhupāda: ...bones, skeletons was found. In Africa there are still cannibals.

Guest (4): Oh, yes.

Kṛṣṇa-bhāminī: In South America as well.

Prabhupāda: South America also? In India also.

Guest (1): That, these...

Prabhupāda: Yes. In Assam side.

Guest (1): This Assam, some of the places.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They eat human beings. Nara-buli (?), sacrifice human being, still there is a class of men.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Buddhist Monk (1): I was here in 1952, and somewhere in '60 as well. I have been travelling eighteen years in nearly a hundred countries and trying to give a little good will. Of course, I am just one man, and within the capacity of one person, and this boy joined me in New Zealand about one and a half years ago. A few bridges have been made. Every religion that is not lived, according to us, fails the purpose of religion because religion should be a way of living. And if we live that, there'll be less duḥkha and more śānti, more peace. There is an awakening in almost all these parts. I was even in the east European countries, from Sofia right up to Moscow. Even there, I carried all the books, the Bible and the Bhagavad-gītā, Buddhist books. At the frontier, they opened the books. I had all these books with me. Rāmāyaṇa, Vedas, something from Egypt, Kung-fu-tsu, Lao-tse. They opened. They looked. They put them back. Not one question was asked. And that very police officer who was passing my passport, I saw him in the restaurant. He called me. Because I had an old photograph which I had taken when I first started travelling. That's twenty years I didn't take it seriously. So he said, "This is not you." First, you know, before I met him in the restaurant, I said, "Technically you may be right because we are changing every moment. So it's not myself." (sighs) But after some time he passed my passport, and then I went to the restaurant where I saw him. He said, he called me, he said, "Formerly I was an officer, and now you are my friend. What do you eat?" (Prabhupāda chuckles) Well, he asked the waitress to "Come bring him a very fine meal, the best you can offer in the restaurant." I said, "That's very kind." Then he said, "I'll bring you meat and all that (indistinct)." I said, "Please keep me out of it. I am a pure vegetarian." "What do you eat?" I said, "All vegetables. If you have rice, it's good." "Oh, bring him a vodka!"

Prabhupāda: Vodka? What...?

Buddhist Monk (1): Vodka.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The government is against any religious...

Buddhist Monk (1): Well, not so strict now as in past because the word "religion" has been used as a narcotic by people. The religious institution was kissing the state, and the state was kissing religion.

Prabhupāda: When I was in airport, the customs clearance, as soon as they saw my book, Bhagavad-gītā, they called police. (laughter)

Buddhist Monk (1): I was also getting ready...

Prabhupāda: So the policeman saw and said, "Oh, you can go."

Buddhist Monk (1): Well...

Prabhupāda: They were so suspicious.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Instead of making the state center, make God center.

Popworth: Do you think that the Christian monasteries practiced this in the past, or perhaps even today?

Haṁsadūta: Well, today, no one is practicing it. Otherwise why people are leaving the church? No one is in the monastery, no one is in the church. They are abandoning it. Because there is no center. As soon as there is a center, it will carry weight. Just like a wheel. If there's a hub, if there's a hub, that it will carry weight.

Popworth: I have not abandoned the church. I have embraced it.

Haṁsadūta: Anyway, our point is... We're speaking in general. In general, because the center, factually the center, God, is missing, somehow or other, He's missing, therefore people are also giving it up. They can't take it. Because it's not practical. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is practical. It's not a sentiment or a dry philosophy. It's a practical philosophy of life, absolute philosophy of life, how to do everything without any pollution, without any contamination. Just like we are experiencing by our so-called advancement that we have created so many modern facilities for comfort, but the result is, alongside, simultaneously, there's an equal disadvantage. Just like we create a motor car. But we create air pollution. Or you create a highway. But you have to create snowplow to clear the highway. You have to create police. You have to create so many other things.

Prabhupāda: And there is list of accidents, injuries.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: You may not, but nature is different. Just like a child does not hope that if he puts his finger in a fire, it will not burn. But nature is so strict, it doesn't care for the child or the old man. It will burn. I may prove very innocent, but nature doesn't care for that. Nature doesn't care for that. Nature will not show any mercy for the innocent child. No. That is nature. Is it not fact? If a child puts his finger on the fire, nature will not consider that: "Here is a innocent child. He may not be burned." No. Equally. Therefore nature is very strong. We cannot avoid the control of the nature. If you do something, it must acting, react in the same way. The same... If you put your finger in the fire, it must react, burn it. Nature is so strong. So as soon as you violate any law of nature, you'll be punished. That is... Just like God... State police is there, engaged by the government. As soon as you violate law, the police will arrest you and give you punishment. Similarly material nature means the police of God. As soon as you violate God laws, it will give immediately punishment. That is material nature. It is always punishing us. Because we are, one after another, we are violating the laws of God. Therefore she's always punishing. That is her business. Mother nature is described as Goddess Durgā, and she has got a trident in her hand. That is punishment. Three kinds of miserable condition. Adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. Adhyātmika, pertaining to the body and mind, adhibhautika, miserable condition offered by others, and adhidaivika, miserable condition offered by higher authorities. Just like if there is no rain, you cannot do anything. Your so-called science and advancement of knowledge will not be able to help. Or if there is over flood. That also you cannot do anything. Therefore you have to accept there is a controller of this raining. It is not under my control. That is nature. But nature is working under the direction of God. Behind the background of nature is God. Just like background of police force is the government. Similarly, background of the stringent laws of nature is God. That they do not understand. They're struggling with the natural laws. And that struggle they are taking as advancement. That's all. It is a struggle. But they're taking it as advancement. This is called illusion.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: He's a rascal. He's simply bogus. He's trying to... There are so many parties like that. They're four or five, they make a group and imitate these Beatles. As if... Beatles have made money. They'll also make money. That is the... And speak all nonsense. That's all. These are crazy fellows. So independence means that you can do or not do. Just like you, as a nation, American nation, or English nation, you are all independent. But why you go to the jail? Is it government's fault that you go to the jail? Therefore government has fault? Why this nonsense question. When a man, instead of going to the university, goes to the police custody, is it government's fault? Is it?

Haṁsadūta: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? It is a common sense affair. The God has given you independence. If you do something wrong, against the will of God, then you must suffer. Therefore we find so many varieties of living entities. In different grades of life. That is due to misuse of independence.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, the small...

Śrutakīrti: No, oh, the small pictures...

Professor: Oh, you got three different carts.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, three carts.

Prabhupāda: Here is the gigantic ratha behind the crowd. The police cooperate.

Professor: Oh, yes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone likes. Yes. Even Christian priests they also like. No, any sane man will like because... Somebody sends me money: "Sir, you are doing so nice work, spreading God consciousness. Here is my little contribution."

Professor: I see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. From your, these Western countries. Just week before, I got hundred dollars from one gentleman. Simply appreciated that I am spreading God consciousness. So actually we have no program of proselytizing or making Hindu from Christian, Christian... We have no such program. We simply want to see that everyone is God conscious. Never mind through which venue, he becomes a God conscious. It doesn't matter.

Room Conversation with Officer Harry Edwards, the Village Policeman -- August 30, 1973, Bhaktivedanta Manor, London:

Harry: That's. Really. Yeah, yeah. But do you think...? I suppose... Well, it's like everything else. I suppose they would get used to it. Oh, I don't know. They say, if there's a problem... As far as we are concerned, as far as the police are concerned, we can find nothing wrong. You have done nothing wrong, nothing wrong. I mean, I don't know what you got, supposed to do, I don't know what you're supposed to do wrong anyway, but... But that's it, as far as we are concerned...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harry: We do have this liaison. You know, I must keep in liaison with you. So if I come over here, gentlemen, you must realize I am not here, I am not here for the purpose of, say, spying, if you may think this. I don't suppose you do?

Śyāmasundara: You're welcome at any time.

Harry: But this is the purpose, anyway... I don't know if I've got to, stay overstayed my welcome...

Śyāmasundara: We feel very good when we see you here. We feel very pleased to see you on the grounds.

Harry: Yes, oh, yes, yes. But don't forget, gentlemen, as I say, I, you must realize that I still have a job to do and if there was something in which you think I should report upon...

Prabhupāda: Mr. Ha... (opening letter), you can read this letter, that so many people, they offered their place for our temple. Just now we have received this letter. One body is offering his...

Śyāmasundara: Yeah. I brought that letter from London. It's from Guyana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: They're also thinking that "We are not sumptuously fed," or something. Some demands is there. Some demand. And they are lying down, Amsterdam and here, on the street. And why? But they are coming of rich families, rich nation. Especially America. In London also, I have seen. Regent Park. They're lying down. Police is kicking. Police is kicking: "Get up, get up!" Why? Behind them the British Empire is, British government is there. Why he's lying down there? Who has told him to...? Government is requesting, "If you have no home, come on. I shall give you home." In Bombay also, these, what is called? The huts?

Haṁsadūta: Huts?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Haṁsadūta: Those tent huts?

Prabhupāda: They are on the... You have seen in Bombay?

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We passed, when we passed while coming from aerodrome to city...

Ambassador: From...

Prabhupāda: So many thatched cottages, small. So Bombay government has given them home, that "You come here, live." But what do they...? they rent to some, another man, and they live in the... In Madras also, I have seen.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (1): Was he preaching karma-kāṇḍa?

Prabhupāda: He said that there is no God, but he's God. Just like the policeman sometimes cheats. He goes as a gambler, but he's a policeman. So that is another thing. Therefore if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you understand all these different activities. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. And you become liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If anyone understands what is Kṛṣṇa, why He comes, what His activity is, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, you, after giving up this body, you haven't got to come again in this material world. Simply by studying Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are preaching, "Simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...life is meant for to possess complete knowledge of the Supreme. That is perfection of knowledge. That is possible in the human form of life, not in the life of cats and dogs. That is not possible. So we have got this opportunity. If we spoil this life, living like cats and dogs, then we are missing the opportunity. This is the opportunity to understand Kṛṣṇa, God.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And in London, Oxford Street, the most crowded street, just like our Bombay, Harley Road... So in the big, big cities they are now chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, dancing. People are enjoying. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). You can play this record at home and dance in tune and enjoy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are bringing it. This is the record, Every Town and Village. They are bringing the machine.

Prabhupāda: We are arrested by the police sometimes. Sometimes there are big cases against us. In Ireland. Ireland?

Pradyumna: Ireland, Scotland, in Edinburgh, too.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) These impediments are always there, even in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time. The Kazi, the Mohammedan magistrate, he wanted to stop. (pause) Kṛṣṇa tvadīya pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam (MM 33). So you are devotee of Rādhārāṇī. Eh? Yes, that is good. Through Rādhārāṇī, one should approach Kṛṣṇa. And therefore Vṛndāvana, they, everyone says, "Jaya Rādhe," first of all glorifying Rādhārāṇī. We have got many records. This is one of them, kīrtana. (record starts playing) (break) (sounds of people leaving and Śrīla Prabhupāda saying Hare Kṛṣṇa to individual people) (Hindi) (break)

Guest (2) (Indian man): ...by working towards perfection in my duty...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that perfection is to please Kṛṣṇa. If by... You are doing everything. That's all right, but if by your working Kṛṣṇa is satisfied, then that working is perfect. If Kṛṣṇa is not satisfied, then it is useless, waste of time.

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Solution of difficulty is to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

(BG 7.14)

Māyā... Just like if there are criminals, then the police force will be increased, punishment will be increased, so similarly, human beings, they are becoming godless, so by nature there must be punishment. They will not be supplied food. The food supply will be restricted. After all, the food is in the hands of nature. You cannot produce food. You can produce bolts and nuts in the factory, but you cannot eat bolts and nuts. You have to eat rice and grains. So that restriction if there is... (Hindi) The solution is to, back to home, back to Godhead. Otherwise there is no solution. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). The stringent laws of māyā is very strong. You cannot surpass them. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is possible to get out of this entanglement. Otherwise it is not possible. They have tried so many ways and means to solve the problems, but they could not do anything.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense?

Guest: 93%.

Prabhupāda: And everyone is doing everything, whatever he likes.

Guest: No trade is going on. We are under the counter (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: If I just now cut your throat, the police will come, arrest me, note down and the judgement will be given when all your family members will be longer.

Guest: The judgement won't be given, the police will take money and...

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Lady Guest: Everything will be over.

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: This the position. Everything is (indistinct). Therefore most important thing is people should come to his consciousness, real consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why you will continue? You finish it, this condemned world, where you are simply suffering. Why should you continue it?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because that is the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: No, no, laws of nature if you want. If you want to be condemned, then laws of nature is there. Otherwise laws of nature is teaching you how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Just like police. Police business is to make you lawful. If you become lawful, there is no question of police. There is no question of police law. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Māyā is kicking you one after another so that you may come to sense that "This life is not good." But we are so foolish that we say, "No, it is good." Yan maithunādi. "There is sex life. Oh, it is very good." This is the position.

Devotee: You give the analogy in the Bhagavad-gītā that it's like pouring gas onto a fire you're trying to put out.

Hṛdayānanda: He said like putting gas on the fire.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So increase the fire. Yes. But because we have got this body, we have to utilize it to make the best use of a bad bargain. Therefore marriage is allowed, gṛhastha life is allowed, not for increasing sex life, but to finish it as soon as possible.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Only the criminal.

Prabhupāda: Only the criminal. And he'll be punished, that's all. The result, he'll be punished. Beaten with the shoes of policeman, that's all.

Karandhara: Some people get away with it.

Prabhupāda: For some time he'll get away. You can get away from the police custody, but you cannot get away from māyā's custody. That is not possible.

Karandhara: But because in all material examples there are exceptions, they say. In all material examples there are exceptions, so they try to find that exception.

Prabhupāda: Many exceptions are there, mām eva ye prapadyante. Those who are devotee, they are not under māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you do not violate the laws of God... (break) ...there is no question of being... (break)...by māyā. If you surrender... (break) ...ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). (break) ...if the government protects everyone who is surrendered to the laws of the God, government. The government will give all protection. If he is a law-abiding citizen, he must be given protection, all protection.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Prof. Wolfe: And we cannot help doing that.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to become servant of Kṛṣṇa; you are not responsible. Just like government servant, police, and military kills, but he's not responsible. He's not responsible. Their business is killing, soldiers, but they are rewarded: "Oh, thank you very much. Take this title." Just Arjuna, just like Arjuna killed on the order of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa gave him cert..., bhakto 'si priyo 'si me: (BG 4.3) "You are My very dear friend. You are my devotee." So we have to act by the order of the Supreme. Then we are not responsible. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Govardhana: Yes, but we prevented him.

Prabhupāda: So we must be careful. There may be so many fanatics.

Govardhana: That shows that because he was not in the constant association of devotees that he lost those qualities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. So why did you not arrest him and give to the police?

Govardhana: We did. We beat him. Then we took him to court and had him put in jail for three months.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. Yes.

Govardhana: But how is it that he was coming and becoming enthusiastic about Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: ...coming, but he was interrupted by another rascal. He was advised by another rascal.

Govardhana: So one has to guard against being interrupted in that way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the first thing is that you, this, "You shall not eat meat, you shall not do this, do that, do this..." People are generally sinful, especially in the Western countries, because they are all addicted to these habits. So he can be polluted very soon. Very soon he can be polluted. He's prone to pollutions by nature.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: I just know when I close my eyes, it's dark.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...of the same quality, then what is the necessity of another God? It is a conclusion like this, that in the hospital everyone is patient. Therefore doctor is also patient because he's in the hospital. In the prisonhouse they're all prisoners. Therefore the superintendent of police he is also prisoner. Or the governor comes to see, visit, he is also prisoner. It is conclusion like that. God means He has got a special potency that He exists without any cause. Sva-rāṭ. This word is used in Bhāgavatam, sva-rāṭ: "completely independent." Who is that rascal, Bernard Russell? He is a well...

Yaśomatīnandana: Bertrand Russell. Yeah, British philosopher. He died probably. He died long time ago?

Umāpati: He is very fashionable. He was leader of anti-war demonstrators, and he was very man-conscious, thinking that man could solve all his problems.

Prabhupāda: But he could not solve his own problems. He died. So was he a man or dog? (break)

Yaśomatīnandana: ...philosophy. Because this whole world is made of asses, therefore asses' philosophy is given so much importance, donkeys.

Prajāpati: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya (end)

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the tendency is that the sufferer wants to complain.

Prabhupāda: No, that they will complain. Just like when a man is ordered to be hanged, he will complain, "Just see the police, judge. He has ordered me to be hanged." That complaint will go on. Just like a child. When the doctor says, "Don't eat anything." He will complain. He will cry, "Why doctor says like that?" But it has to be done.

Karandhara: Well, then they'll say, "Well, if you see somebody suffering, then why do anything about it, if it just what they..."

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are doing everything to stop his suffering.

Karandhara: They will say, "Why? If that's what they deserve, why try to stop it?"

Prabhupāda: No, because he has come here to suffer. You cannot expect in the prison life a very comfortable life. You must suffer. But if somebody goes there, that "Don't commit stealing anymore. Come out and don't come here again," so that is required.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But how all of a sudden there can be explosion? What is this nonsense proposition? As soon as there is question of explosion, before the explosion takes place, there must be some arrangement. The time bomb explosion. So the bomb is prepared by something, some bomb is kept by somebody, and after some time it explodes. So how all of a sudden? Where does he get this idea? Just like if there is bomb explosion here, a child may think, "All of a sudden there is a bomb explosion," but a sane man will not think that. There will be inquiry, "Who kept this bomb? Who brought this bomb?" That is sanity. "And all of a sudden explosion," this is all rascal proposal. Therefore the people have become so rascal, guided by these rascals, "All of a sudden, by chance," and they accept them as scientist... This is the drawback of the present civilization. Because they are śūdras, like animals, they have got no brain to answer that "How all of a sudden there can be explosion." They have no brain even to ask. Rather, they are giving Nobel Prize. This rascal is speaking like a rascal, still, he should get Nobel Prize. That is the defect. The people at the present moment, they are all rascals. Just like animals. And yes, actually they are animals. Just like animals are eating, sleeping, mating, and eating meat. The other one animal is eating another animal. That's all. No discretion, nothing. This is a civilization of animals, polished animals. Their consciousness has become animalistic. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like children. They are animals, just like animals. They have no fixed program. Whatever they like, they are doing. Whatever they like, they are speaking. Simply they are interested in eating. So at the present moment, because they have lost all their power of reasoning and understanding, they are all animals. "All of a sudden there is an explosion." How explosion can take place like that? Any sane human being will ask that "How is that?" Same example: If there is some explosion in the park, a rascal will say, "All of a sudden there is explosion." But the government, police department, immediately inquire, "How this bomb came? Wherefrom? Who placed it?" That is humanity. That is human reasoning. "And all of a sudden there is explosion," you have to accept that.