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Point of view (Conversations 1967 - 1973)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: This Gopāla was situated at Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana means about more than one thousand miles away from where the temple is situated now. But He came one thousand miles to give witness for His devotee. Since then, Gopāla is situated there. So that story is narrated. That story should be narrated or what? How to do it? That is the significance of the temple. There was some family quarrel and Gopāla came to give witness to decide judgement on that quarrel. So it is possible to describe?

Hayagrīva: I think from a dramatic point of view, that in your third act, you can't have too many narrations. It becomes very tedious. If you have a narration. Someone telling the history of various temples. Like in the first scene, now there's a story being told Lord Caitanya by Nityānanda. Now in the second scene He visits another temple. And is there going to be another narration about how the temple was founded? I don't think that's... I don't know. (laughs) Do you think that will be all right?

Prabhupāda: No. That will be all right in this way, that the narration should be shortly described in poetry and that will be chanted with kīrtana. In that way, you see.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:
So similarly, we have to offer Kṛṣṇa what Kṛṣṇa likes to eat. So how we can know? In this book we have the things, what Kṛṣṇa wants. He says, "You give Me foodstuff, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ (BG 9.26) fruits, flowers, grains, milk, like that." So our diet is Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Therefore... Kṛṣṇa wants these things. We prepare these things, and we eat the remnants of food. If Kṛṣṇa says that "You give me meat," then we can offer Kṛṣṇa meat also. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that. Kṛṣṇa says, "Give Me fruits, flowers, grains." So we have no quarrel with the meat-eaters. Let them do whatever he likes. But our concern is that unless Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa takes, we don't take. So in order to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, this is necessary, just like an important segment of the work. We cannot accept anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore this diet, this sort of diet, as you have tasted in our love feast, that is important. We cannot take outside the scope. So in that sense, diet is important. Besides that, from health point of view also, you require a balanced food—carbohydrate, starch, protein, and fat. That is scientific. So fat we are getting from milk, butter. So if I can get fat from milk and butter, why shall I kill the cow and animal? This is humanity. My necessity is to get some milk and fat. The cow is supplying you milk and fat sufficiently. Why should you kill it? I am going to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, God conscious, and I am killing another God's creature? So it is very important work to select that: if anyone is serious to become God conscious or Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore in our program meat-eating is forbidden. So that is very important in that sense.
Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

it's going to affect my service to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Śivānanda: In other words, you don't necessarily make snap decisions. I mean they're probably very... They can consider it from all different points of view.

Prabhupāda: It is not difficult.

Śivānanda: No. But I mean you have to consider all the different means and figure out how you're going to serve Kṛṣṇa the best way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa can be served by his own occupation, as I described just now. Or whatever you may be. You may be a potter, you may be a florist, you may be... Whatever you may be, but you can satisfy Kṛṣṇa by his work, by your work. You do not require to qualify yourself with some specific qualification. Whatever qualification you have got, you have to dovetail it under the direction of expert spiritual master, how you can serve. That's all.

Talk -- October 18, 1968, Seattle:

Guest (1): Me?

Prabhupāda: No, I am asking this girl. Why? Because your business is to cure your disease. It doesn't matter whether he is a Christian or a Hindu or a Muhammadan. It doesn't matter. Similarly, you have to seek love of God. Wherever it is available, you have to take it. That should be the point of view. It doesn't matter where it is available. One should be hankering after love of Godhead. Love of God. Gold, somebody is after purchasing gold. It doesn't matter where it is available. Similarly, it doesn't matter whether you develop love of Godhead from this scripture or that scripture. Your aim should be whether you are developing love of Godhead or developing love of non-God. That should be the test.

Guest (2) (older woman): Divine Master, I came to pay my respect and I'm most distressed that I need to leave, but there is series of people who are waiting for me, for a spiritual meeting also. So permit me to bow to you.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Please come again.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: This is the age for injecting Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If children are taught Kṛṣṇa consciousness from this age, the face of the world will be different. (break) ...but they are not Hindus. They have got also obstinacy like that. (break) It is very important. "I thought in that way. When my mother died, as the devotees of the Lord think, I also thought in that way. What is that? 'Oh, it is a grace of the Lord. My mother is now dead.' Because she is the, I mean to say, real cause of my nonfreedom. So she is now dead. Then I am free." It is very contradiction from the materialistic point of view. It is said that, bhaktanam śam abhīpsataḥ. "As the devotees think, so I also in that way thought." What is that? Anugrahaṁ manyamānaḥ. "I thought it a special grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Anugrahaṁ manyamānaḥ pratiṣṭhāṁ disam uttaram: "And I at once took leave of my so-called home and went away." So that is the difference between the devotees of the Lord and materialistic persons. When their materialistic relationship, comforts, are taken away, they think "Oh, it is all grace." And the materialistic person, when their materialistic comforts are increased, they think, "It is grace."

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Well, all I know is what they plan to do and what they've done so far. So in view of what they hope to do, that's...

Prabhupāda: Well, that hoping... That hoping also, from practical point of view... Just like the other day the information was they were sixty miles off from the moon planet and still they could not enter. I do not know what kind of statement it is. If you go to some place just sixty miles off from that place and you are trying for so many years, you should be inquisitive. "Oh, let me go there sixty miles further. Let me see."

Reporter: Well it's like you walk near a theater and you don't have a ticket. You might be able to walk around the theater...

Prabhupāda: Then you come to my conclusion that your ticket is insufficient. You cannot enter there. Then you support my statement. Then you support me, that you cannot enter there.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: You have a farm now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. And you'll forget everything. You'll be fully Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Allen Ginsberg: We have a farm also now in upstate New York. There we have vegetarian table also in the farm. We have a cow, goats. But...

Prabhupāda: From economic point of view, if one man has got a cow and four acres of land, he has no economic problem. That we want to start. He can independently live any part of the world. Simply he must (have) one cow and four acres of land. Let the people be divided with four acres of land and a cow, there will be no economic question. All the factories will be closed.

Allen Ginsberg: Four acres, you think?

Prabhupāda: Four acres.

Allen Ginsberg: Maybe.

Prabhupāda: That I am instructing Kīrtanānanda, to show this example in New Vrindaban.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Hayagrīva: So that he would hear it when he was coming by.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, I'll tell you my feeling was is I was thinking about it from a lot of different angles. I was thinking about it from a lot of different viewpoints. One is that there is a lot of resentment of the President and of the government here from the young people who are going to be sent to war or who don't like the war. There is likely to be conflict here when the President comes. One reason this place was picked for the President to come was that it is relatively..., many, many police around here, this part, police state, very heavy, so that it would be dangerous to show aggression and to show real conflict. But there is all that energy that wants to express itself, and basically peaceful energy. So what I suggested was that they greet him by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa as a way of manifesting...

Prabhupāda: Very good. Very good suggestion. Yes.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: I think he should be, like that. You become secretary, and Śyāma dāsī become assistant secretary. Of course, everything should be decided in a meeting, and president may be have as a casting vote, but the decision of the meeting will be actually the decision. Not that president autocracy, no. Or he may be president, you may be vice president and others, Śyāma dāsī, secretary, and treasurer he is. From sampradāya point of view, sannyāsī has to be given the top post. Do you think he will overrule you? (Laughs)

Hayagrīva: Well, I have to make one request on that.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Hayagrīva: That I not stay here.

Prabhupāda: You do not stay here?

Hayagrīva: Yes. I don't want to stay.

Prabhupāda: Unless you become president?

Hayagrīva: Unless I am in charge, I don't want to stay. I mean there are too many responsibilities that I've already assumed, and not to have the decisions as to what to do with the vehicles, what to do with this, what to do with that, I'd rather not have any part of it.

Prabhupāda: No, anyone who can manage everything, he should be in charge of the whole thing.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:
George Harrison: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is a verse in Bhagavad-gītā,

yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas
itaras tad anuvartate
sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute
lokas tad anuvartate
(BG 3.21)

The idea is that anything which is, I mean to say, accepted by the leading persons, ordinary persons follow them. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas. Śreṣṭhas means leading persons. Ācarati, acts. Whatever leading persons act, people in general follow them. Sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute. If the leading person says, "It is nice. It is all right," the others also accept it. So by the grace of God, Kṛṣṇa, you are leaders. Thousands of young men follow you. They like you. So if you give them something actually nice, the face of the world will change. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not a manufactured new thing. It is, from historical point of view, at least, it is five thousand years old. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means Bhagavad-gītā as it is. And Bhagavad-gītā... Of course, it is supposed to be Indian religious book, but it is not like that. It is not Indian or Hinduism. It is for all the people of the world.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Yoko Ono: But not always the knowledgeable one are the ones who...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot know completely. That is because our knowledge is very imperfect. But still, so far our knowledge is concerned, as far as possible, we should try to understand. Avāṅ mānasa gocaraḥ. This Absolute is so great and unlimited that it is not possible for us to know Him completely. That is not possible. Our senses does not allow. But as far as it is possible, because, after all, we are part and parcel of the Absolute, so all the qualities of the Absolute are there in us, but it is in minute quantity. So that minute quantity is also very great in comparison to material knowledge. Material knowledge is practically no knowledge. It is covered. But when one is liberated, liberated knowledge is certainly very, very great than material knowledge. So Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. These are the statements of Bhāgavata. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). It is... Śabdyate means sounded as Bhagavān, Paramātmā, and Brahman. Now, what are the difference or degrees of knowledge? Brahman knowledge, Paramātmā knowledge, and Bhagavān knowledge. The same thing. The knowledge of sunshine, the knowledge of sun globe, and the knowledge of this predominating deity in the sun globe. So knowledge of sunshine is not knowledge of the predominating deity of the sun globe. There is another example in this connection. Just like if you see one hill from a long-distant place, first of all you see just like it is a cloud. Then, if you proceed further, you'll see something green. And if you enter into that hill you'll see, oh, there are so many varieties. There are animals, there are men, there are trees. But from the distant, you'll see just like a cloud. So although the same thing... Similarly, Absolute, when visioned from the Brahman point of view, it is just like cloud. Absolute when visioned as Paramātmā, it is just like something green. And Absolute when realized as the Supreme Person, it is just like you enter into the hill and see everything in detail. So although the focus is the same, the Brahmavādī and the Paramātmāvadī and the devotee's focus is the same, but due to their respective position the realization is different. These things are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That is... Therefore the Vedas says, tad-vijñānārthaṁ: "In order to know that transcendental science," sa gurum evābhigacchet, "he must go to a guru. He must approach." A guru means not bogus guru. One who knows expert. But one has to do that. There is no other alternative. That is the injunction of every Vedic śāstra. And this order is from the Kathopaniṣad. Then, on the Bhagavad-gītā the same thing is said, tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). Praṇipāta means surrender. Surrender where? Where to surrender? To a coolie? No, to a superior person, guru. Similarly, Bhāgavata says, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttamam: (SB 11.3.21) "One who is inquisitive to understand the spiritual science," tasmād, "therefore," guruṁ prapadyeta, "must surrender to a guru." Just our, this morning prayer is guru, beginning of life, beginning of day's work, first worshiping guru.

Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-

trāṇāya-kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam,

prāptasya kalyāṇa-guṇārṇavasya
vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam **

So in our, this Vedic way of life, to accept guru is essential. Even big, big ācārya... Even Kṛṣṇa, He accepted guru, Sandipani Muni. Lord Caitanya accepted guru, Īśvara Purī. They are perfect, but still, the ways They are showing because They are ācārya. Kṛṣṇa is teaching, taking the part of the ācārya, so he is also accepting, although the fact is as soon as went to, within a few days He learned everything. That is stated in our Kṛṣṇa Book. Within a few days He became expert warrior, expert magician, expert yogi, every..., so many things, all arts. But He learned from a guru. He is perfect Himself, Kṛṣṇa. He is called Yogesvara. He knows all the yoga process, but still, in order to teach us, because He is playing the part of a teacher, He shows us that you must learn from guru. "I am learning from guru." So any science, you cannot learn it automatically by yourself. No, that is not. Then we shall create so many mental speculators, so many things. That will be not a science. Even all scientists, they accept a formula from an authority: "law of gravitation." They accept it. Then their physical, so many things they discover. But accept one formula. Just like this formula is given by Sir Isaac Newton. So they accept guru. So from all practical point of view, the things which are unknown to us, we have to accept a guru, for things unknown to us. Now, there is another verse. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Abodha-jātaḥ. We are all born ignorant. Is it not? What do you think? Are we not born fools? Is it not?

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your interpretation.

Guest (3): That is exactly what...

Prabhupāda: No, you say. Anyone who... Anyone... Whatever he says, he thinks like that, exact. That is another thing. But we know that Kṛṣṇa had no difference between His body and soul. He is absolute. Now, you are talking from the point of view that Kṛṣṇa's body and Kṛṣṇa's soul is different.

Guest (3): Ah, no... In every body...

Prabhupāda: That is not the fact. That is not the fact.

Guest (1): Sir, Kṛṣṇa could not the two...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you say, "could not," but we do not say like that. Now who will settle up this thing? You say, but I do not say.

Guest (3): If you say, "This is not the body..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We are to speak on the Bhagavad-gītā. We are talking of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says that mām ekam. He never says that "to My soul."

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): Hundred per cent, you are very correct in saying what you have just said.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): I want to understand that point of view. That is why I have come.

Prabhupāda: But this is the point of understanding. That I have already told you, in the Bhagavad-gītā, that if you want to understand, first of all you have to surrender.

Guest (2): Surrender to whom? Not to the ācāryas but to the...

Prabhupāda: First of all find out whom to surrender, then talk.

Guest (2): ...supreme ācārya

Prabhupāda: That's all right. If you think that you are not fit for my surrender, that's all right. But first of all you find out somebody where you can surrender; then talk.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: He never surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. I wrote him letter. "Mahatma Gandhi, you have got so much influence. You just preach the gospel of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. Now we have attained svarāj. You don't be in politics." But he was still in politics after attainment of svarāj. And his assistants became disgusted because he was interfering, and therefore he was killed. And that is open secret. If he would have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, "All right. Now I have worked for svarāj. My people have got svarāj. Now let me work for Kṛṣṇa,"... He never did that. You cannot say that he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He should have taken immediately sannyāsa and preached Bhagavad-gītā if he was actually surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. What did he do for Kṛṣṇa? We have to know from practical point of view. I'll tell you another story about Mahatma Gandhi. My Guru Mahārāja invited him in our maṭha, Mahatma Gandhi. So Mahatma Gandhi inquired... The, my godbrothers went to invite him. "What you are doing in your maṭha?" They replied that "We are worshiping Lord Kṛṣṇa." So he inquired, "Are you pulling on charka?" They said, "No sir," He said, "Charka is my God. If there is no charka, I am not going there." He said like that.

Room Conversation -- April 6, 1971, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...therefore they are coming to these things. Process of killing is different because in this age if you simply kill all the pāpīs, then there will be no more existence because everybody is pāpī. If you take sword and kill the pāpīs, then everybody will be finished. Of course, that will be done at the last stage of Kali-yuga. But here the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is killing the pāpa-bīja. Pāpa-bīja means just like a man is a thief. He knows that "If I steal, according to śāstra, I'll be punished by God. Or there is no god. Then I'll be punished by the state, by the police." He knows that. And he sees also that one man who has committed theft, he is arrested and he is taken by the police. He has seen also. But still he does stealing. He knows either from the state point of view or śāstra point of view, and he sees practically. Still he does it. Why? Pāpa-bīja. In the heart the seed of committing sinful activities is there. So simply by seeing or knowing, it will not be killed. It has to be killed by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. He should be purified from the heart he'll give up everything. So this killing process is paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). So this pāpa-bīja, the seed of sinful activities, is being killed. Otherwise, how people give up all the sinful activities? Because the pāpa-bīja, the original seed, is being killed away. You see practically.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, you know, what is interesting... As it is here in our country, with our great interest in the history of old, old god, from this point of view our institute translated into Russian and published many, I may say, literary monuments of great Indian culture. I will have a pleasure to present you a copy of a booklet which was written here by me and my colleagues. It's account of Soviet studies of India. And here there is chapter, chapter second, "Studies of Ancient Indian Texts in the U.S.S.R..." You'll be interested to discover, we published not all but some, some in exceptions, Purāṇas. We published most of them, then some parts of Rāmāyaṇa, eight volumes in Russian, Mahābhārata... We have also second edition of Mahābhārata, translated by different people. Kabukare Artha-śāstra(?) also was translated in full and published. Manu-smṛti also translated in full and published with Sanskrit commentaries. And such a great interest... I think that all these publications was sold in a week. Now quite completely out of stock, this... It was impossible to get them in book market after month, such a great interest among reading people here in Moscow and the U.S.S.R. towards ancient Indian culture. And from this point of view we published, I must say, a lot of things, a lot of things.

Prabhupāda: Now, amongst these Purāṇas, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is called the Mahā-purāṇa.

Prof. Kotovsky: Mahā-purāṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have translated in English the full, with the original Sanskrit text, its transliteration, an English equivalent for each word, then translation, and then purport, explanation of the verse. In this way there are 18,000's of verses in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And the ācāryas, the great saintly sages who are the preachers of this Bhāgavatam throughout India, their opinion is that it is the ripened fruit of the Vedic desire tree. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam (SB 1.1.3). And it is accepted by all, I mean, Indian scholars, and especially Lord Caitanya, He preached this Bhāgavata. So we have got that, complete in English translation. If you want to see some of them, we can show you.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Hinduism is a very complex term. (laughs)

Prof. Kotovsky: Oh, yes, Hinduism. It is not all... It is really... To my understanding it is not religion from European point of view. It is a really a way of life...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: ...religion, Indian, a way of philosophy, a way of life, a religion, everything...

Prabhupāda: No, this Hinduism, Hindu, this word, is not a Sanskrit word. It is given by the Mohammedans. You know there is a river, Indus, which is..., Sanskrit name is Sindhu. Sindhu.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: These Mohammedans, they pronounce "S" as "H." "Hindus," "Hindus." Instead of "Sindus," they made it "Hindus." So Hindu is a term which is not found in the Sanskrit dictionary.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But it has come into use. Real, I mean to say, cultural institution is called varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatri, vaiśya, śūdra—these four varṇas—and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So according to Vedic concept of life, unless people take to this system or institution, institute of varṇa and āśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas, actually he does not become a civilized human being. This... One has to take this process, four divisions of varṇas and four..., four divisions of social order and four divisions of spiritual order. That is called varṇāśrama. So India's culture is based on these four, eight system, varṇa and āśrama.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriya.

Prof. Kotovsky: From top to... From top to collective farm, for instance, is kṣatriyas. But who would be here vaiśya and who śūdra? That is the difficulty because all others will workers, workers, anywhere, factory workers, collective farm workers and so on. So from this point of view...

Prabhupāda: From this point of view...

Prof. Kotovsky: ...there is a great distinction, in my opinion, between socialist society and all societies preceding socialist because in a modern western society you can group all social professions, classes, for instance, practically, very conditionally, you know, at least you can, the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, kṣatriyas... Excuse me... Then this vaiśya, this productive class, is owners...

Prabhupāda: That is...

Prof. Kotovsky: ...of the means of production...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: ...these factory owners, for instance.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: And the śūdras are workers, menial workers. But here you have no vaiśyas from this point of view because you have administrative staff... In fact, there is administrative staff. You can call them kṣatriyas. And then śūdras, that's workers themselves. But not this intermediate class.

Prabhupāda: That is stated, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age practically all men will be śūdras." That is... That is predicted. But if there are simply śūdras, then the social order will be destroyed. You... Just like in spite of your state of śūdras, a brāhmaṇa is found here. And that is necessity. So if you do not divide the social order in such a way, then there will be chaos. that is the scientific estimation of the Vedas. You may... You may belong for the time being to the śūdra class, but to maintain the social order you have to train some of the śūdras to become brāhmaṇa, some of the śūdras to become kṣatriyas. You cannot depend on the śūdras. Then there will be chaos. Neither you can depend only on brāhmaṇa. Just like to fulfill the necessities of your body there must be a portion called the brain, there must be a portion called the arms, there must be a portion called the stomach, or the belly, and there must be a portion which is called the leg. The leg is also required, the brain is also required, the arm is also required—for cooperation, to fulfill the mission of the whole body. So any, any society you conceive, unless there are these four divisions, there will be chaos. It will be, not be properly, I mean to say, going on, smoothly going on. There will be some disturbance. Brain must be there.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: It is impossible. Our idea is that best ideas from the original idea. Just like in the Bhāgavata there is a description of communistic idea, and it is being described to Mahārāja Yudhisthira. So if there is something good, good experience, why it should not be adopted? That is our point of view. And besides that, in the modern civilization they are missing one point: the aim of human life, scientifically. The aim of human life is self-realization, ātmā-tattvam. It is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ yāvan na jijñāsa ātmā-tattvam. Unless the human society comes to the point of self-realization, whatever they are doing, they are being defeated, parābhava. I think you know this word, parābhava. Parābhava. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. So actually it is happening so. The modern society, human society, there is advancement, economic advancement, so many things, advancement. Still, in the matter of keeping peace and tranquility there is fight, individually, socially, politically, nationally. So if we think very cool-headed, then in spite of so much improvement in so many branches of knowledge, we are keeping the same mentality of quarreling. That is also visible in lower animal society.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: So that means they are lacking. It may be as you say, or it may be as I say, but there must be a department of knowledge, what is the... Now, recently one cardiologist, a doctor, he has accepted that there is soul, in Montreal and Toronto. I had some correspondence with him. So he is strongly in belief that there is soul. So that is another point of view, but we accept knowledge from authority. Authority. Just like this statement is given by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the authority by all the ācāryas, in Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is studied amongst the scholarly circle and philosophical circle still, all over the world. And this statement is given by Kṛṣṇa:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

So dehāntaram prāpti... Just like the childhood, now, giving up the childhood body, the soul is coming to the boyhood body, from boyhood, youth..., similarly, the soul, giving up this body, he accepts another body. This statement is given by Kṛṣṇa, the greatest authority according to our tradition of knowledge.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: There may be some exceptions, but, I mean to say, just like the cow dung is stool—this is an exception—but why this exception is accepted, that if you scientifically examine, analyze, you find it is correct?

Prof. Kotovsky: That is due to analyze. That's right. That's from common sense point of view.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, another, another instance is there. Just like conchshell. Conchshell is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic instruction, if you touch the bone of an animal, you become impure. You have to take bath. You become impure. But this conchshell is kept in the deity room because it's accepted as pure by the Vedas. So my point is that we accept Vedic laws in such a way, without argument, accept because it is stated in the Vedas, and that is the principle followed by scholars. If you can substantiate your statement by quoting from the Vedas, then it is accepted. You do not require to substantiate in other ways if you prove by Vedic quotation. Śruti-pramāṇa. It is called śruti-pramāṇa. There are different kinds of pramāṇa, evidences. Just like in the legal court if you can give quotation from the law books, your statement is accepted, similarly, all statements which you give, if they are supported by śruti-pramāṇa... I think you know. The Vedas are known as Śrutis.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: No, the difficulty is...

Prof. Kotovsky: ...are both masters(?) and ex-British officers.

Prabhupāda: ... the difficulty, that India is nowhere. They are trying to imitate, Westernize, but they are hundred years back. From materialistic point of view, technological point of view, they are hundred years back.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, that's right, but what to do for India?

Prabhupāda: No. That not...

Prof. Kotovsky: To improve the condition of life, to be Westernized is the major problem.

Prabhupāda: That... But there is one thing that I am experiencing. India's the spiritual asset, if that is distributed, that will increase India's (indistinct). That is my... Because everywhere I go, still people adore India's spiritual culture. They are after India. And if they are properly distributed, the treasurehouse of Indian spiritual knowledge, then at least people outside India, they'll think that "We are getting something from India."

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: But so far we know that Buddhists they do not believe in God, existence of God.

Dr. Weir: No. They believe in this existence of a "Godness" if you like.

Mensa Member: It's very subjective, the Buddhist point of view in general seems to be very much that of the nineteenth century English rationalist, the agnostic in its visual sense.

Dr. Weir: That's why I say the Unitarian comes closest to it.

Mensa Member: The fact that I got here is impossible to comprehend. (indistinct) in these very brief terms.

Dr. Weir: But if you accept its existence then it's present in everybody. Exactly what you're saying. Whether they utilize it, whether, as you call it, uncovered, or to the degree to which they are conscious of it, is a different thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a question of consciousness, development of consciousness.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: These people or this revolution is meant for killing the sinful resultant actions of the people. This revolution. Janatā agha, agha means resultant action of sinful life. Janatā agha viplavaḥ. Viplavaḥ means revolution, this very word is used. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api (SB 1.5.11). Such revolutionary literature, even they are not properly composed. Yasmin prati-ślokam abaddham. Not according to the grammatical rules and other rhetorical rules, but the, I mean to say, thoughts and the effects of such revolutionary literature is required. Not the grammatical. The so-called rascals, they are concerned with the grammatical. But those who are actually worker, they are concerned with the thoughts. What is the thought is there? Therefore, it is said that tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api, nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'nkitāni yat (SB 1.5.11). If there is simply the attempt is there how to glorify the Supreme Lord, that is a fact. It doesn't matter whether it is written in correct language or incorrect language, it doesn't matter. If the whole thought is targeted to glorify the Supreme Lord, then nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'nkitāni yat gṛṇanti gāyanti śṛṇvanti sādhavaḥ. Then those who are actually sādhu, even in spite of all these defects, because the only attempt is to glorify the Lord, then those who are sādhu, those who are devotee, they hear it. Śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti. Not only hear, they chant also the same thing. And not only chant, but gṛṇanti, they apply in their actual life. This is the Bhāgavata śloka. Is it clear now? Yes. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo (SB 1.5.11). If the thought is revolutionary for transcendental realization, even it is not properly composed from grammatical and literary point of view, because the attempt is there for glorifying the Supreme Lord, all devotees, all great sages, saintly persons, sādhavaḥ, gṛṇanti, they accept. Yes. Gṛṇanti śṛṇvanti, hear with attention, and gāyanti, and chant also. This is the principle. The only center is whether it is meant for awakening God consciousness. That is the central point, not the language(?). But it does not mean that it should not be correctly written.

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:
Prabhupāda: Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśaḥ. You can present a literature very perfect from literary point of view, from metaphor and poetical, rhetorical, very perfectly written, citra-padam, attractive by language. Na yad vacaś citra-padam, such kind of literature, if there is no description of the glories of the Lord, na tad vacaś citra-padam. Just like there are so many sex literatures, very attractive, it is selling like anything. But we are not interested in those rascal literatures. Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham, such literature is considered as the place of enjoyment of the crows. Vāyasam means crow. The crow take enjoyment in the garbage, you have seen? They won't go in a nice place. They will come all together. Just like vultures, they come together to take pleasure in a corpse, dead body. But a white swan, rāja-haṁsa, he goes to a place where there is nice water, lilies and lotus and nice trees. You have seen that St. James Park? They will find out such nice place. They won't go to imitate the crows. The crows-like people will take pleasure in such nonsense literature, sex literature, or any such literature. So many nonsense literatures nowadays they are having good sale. Because people are becoming crows-like, they have no high idea, they have no sense of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, naturally they will take. Just like hippies, they have become all bad taste, crows-like. So we have to become swans, rāja-haṁsa, paramahaṁsa, paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). Then you can understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you remain crows, then you cannot, that is not possible. By nature's example we have to see if crows-like and swans-like, pigeons-like, birds of the same feather. Birds of the same feather flock together, is it not? So you have to change your feather, then he will be pleased. If you keep your feather crows-like, then you cannot mix with the swans, that is not possible. This is the test. There are classes of men like crows, and there are classes of men like swans. So we are preparing our devotee... (aside) What is that?
Room Conversation with Gaurachand Gosvami At the Radha-Damodara Temple (Mostly Bengali) -- March 11, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, what he is, is he professor or what?

Indian man (2): No, he's not a professor. He's just a sadak(?), you see, interested in reading and writing.

Guru dāsa: So if he will put the name on any foreword, then he can also create any theory. If that man did not give the foreword and he has put the name, he will create any theory.

Indian man (2): Yes, of course, that's what he is up to, that's what he is up to.

Guru dāsa: And if someone doubts that, then they're not strong followers of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Indian man (2): Yes. That is a great thing against him.

Guru dāsa: How can you doubt the authority?

Indian man (2): I think he has got certain preconceptions in his mind and, you see, he just tries to prove them by collecting all sorts of data that will just fit into his point of view.

Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi wanted to prove nonviolence from Gītā.

Indian man (2): From Gītā. No, not like that. I would say like Brindarkara(?) wanted to prove that the..., that Kṛṣṇa story and Kṛṣṇa religion had been borrowed from West, you see, and they are a copy of Christ religion. Mandakara has done that.(end)

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Now, our simple philosophy is that we are spirit soul. We are eternal. You are eternal. I am eternal. Everyone is eternal. We are changing our body, transmigrating from one body to another. And that means repetition of birth and death, but we are eternal. Why we are in such botheration of repetition of birth and death? Not only that, sometimes in some species of life, may be very high position, sometimes in low position. Suppose somebody is American, and the next life, if he becomes a tree, if he becomes a dog... He may become a demigod also. There is possibility. Just like in future you may be a... (break) ...understand this movement thoroughly and take it seriously. It is for good welfare, for very good welfare. Now, in Europe, America, here also, so many frustrated young boys, they are coming to be practically of no value to the country. In America I see thousands of hippies, they are doing nothing. So what is the future of the country? If the flowers of the country, young boys, they do not take interest in anything, in administration, in industry, then what is the future? From economic point of view I have studied that America, for want of sufficient workers, they are importing goods from Japan. This is not very good sign. Why such a big country, American country, why they should import? But they are obliged to import. They have no workers. Japan's 75% business is done in America. We are not impractical. Because there are so many workers, but they refuse... In Central Park, it is full of rubbish things always. You go. It is a garbage. Why? There is no worker. And on the other side we see so many young men. They are not working, simply idling time. So they do not tackle the real problem. The future is not very hopeful if things go on like this. So many young boys, they are doing nothing. What is the percentage of hippies now in America? A very good percent. All the school colleges. Here also in the university...

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Security. No, social welfare, that the girls are getting illicit children and the government has to supply food for them. Nobody is taking care of the girls, of the children. And government has to take. The responsibility is increasing, so many things, but this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will solve all the questions. It is such a nice movement. It is a boon. So you study from that point of view and prepare your journal. Therefore I am talking so many things. This is good material for your writing, practical.

Author: Sir, when somebody joins your movement, when they first come to see your movement, what presents itself to them-men with shaven heads and saffron-colored robes who dance in the street and who sing songs, strange songs—these are strange aspects. And in themselves they are not especially significant to an understanding of the philosophy, are they?

Prabhupāda: No, this is... This chanting and dancing is for mass of people, but when you want to discuss philosophy, we have got volumes of books. Yes. Both things we have got. We are attracting both the intelligent class of men and the mass of people, even the children.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Devotee: But Prabhupāda wants that you should have the highest understanding, not just looking at it from their point of view, but if you present it from our point of view, then it can gain the realest, greatest understanding.

Author: Well, with respect, I think that can only, we can only consider that question in practice. When I actually write the material, you'll have to...

Prabhupāda: No. I mean to say, why there is objection if they are dressed in a particular way?

Author: Oh, I'm not objecting to it at all. In fact, it's one of the most reasons why I'm most strongly in favor of the Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: So they are Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they dress in a particular way. That is the answer. That's all.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Sudāmā: In Russia?

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are advertising equal facility to everyone, to the worker. The worker is still working. They are going, still walking on the street to go to the factory. So in this way the whole civilization is going on simply by bluffing. And because men are made śūdra class, they are believing. They are accepting this bluff. This is the position. Besides that, if you... Even if you are able to give everyone nice buildings and nice motor car... Already a few motor cars you have got, there is scarcity of space. From practical point of view. 99% of the population, they do not possess. Or say 50%. So already 50% men possessing motor cars, it has created problem. Where to park the motor car? How to supply petrol.

Śyāmasundara: In America now practically everyone has a house and a car. But now the problem is no one wants to work.

Prabhupāda: That's it. (laughs) Just see. And he is satisfied to remain as urchin, the hippies.

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They feel pleasure to remain as an urchin.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: That's very natural. It is costly here. But these children and their parents also very much interested. So I think you should have a nice institution here to train the children in this country. And after their education, they may take to any line of livelihood. That doesn't matter. But the foundation... Just like in our Vedic system, first of all brahmacārī. That brahmacārī system is very nice. Even Kṛṣṇa, God Himself, He has nothing to learn. He is abhijñā. In the Vedas He is described as abhijñā: He knows everything. But just to teach us, He also became a brahmacārī in the Gurukula. Lord Rāmacandra, He also accepted a guru, Vasiṣṭha. So that is our Vedic system. Anybody may be anything, but the process is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to learn the value of life, spiritual value of life, one must go to a guru. Tad vijñānārtham. In order to understand the spiritual value of life one must go to a guru. Gurum evābhigacchet. What is that guru? Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham: "He is well learned in Vedic literature," and brahma-niṣṭham, "and firm faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead." These are the two qualifications of guru. He must know all the Vedic conclusions, śrotriyam, not that he has to read, but he must hear from the authoritative sources. Just like Arjuna is hearing from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the most authoritative personality. So similarly, everyone has to hear either from Kṛṣṇa or from His bona fide representative. That is śrotriyam. And the result will be that after becoming student of such bona fide guru, one will be firmly fixed up in God consciousness. That is the result, firmly fixed up. Now, these boys from foreign countries, according to our geographical arrangement, they are foreigners. But we don't see anything foreign. We see every land belongs to Kṛṣṇa and everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So we have no such distinction. But still, from materialistic point of view, these boys and girls, they, three or four years ago they did not know what is this word Kṛṣṇa. But now they are so perfectly devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and nobody can deviate them. If somebody says that "You give up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and take..." Now here is Śyāmasundara.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Law of gravity... The big, big planets are floating in the air. Now you can explain how it is it's floating. The hint is already there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that He enters. Viṣṭabhyā idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42), (Sanskrit) that "I enter into this universe, and by My prowess they are floating." These hints are there. Now you are a scientist; if you are actually devotee, then you try to explain from your scientific explanation that this floating is possible because God has entered within it. That is your duty. And because you're scientist, your explanation from the scientific point of view, how God has entered, how He is acting, that will be very well received by the public. So that will be great service. Actually that is the fact. It is already stated there that "I enter." We can understand. Yes, we believe. I'll explain. Just like that balloon. What is that gas? Hydrogen gas?

Martin: Helium.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Martin: Helium gas.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: What is the name?

Ian Polsen: It is called Studies in Comparative Religion. And I can leave the... I have no interest in this magazine except that I subscribe to it.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Comparative religion, from our point of view, that there cannot be many religions, cannot be many religions. Religion means... We define religion as the law given by God. So we understand from Bhagavad-gītā that God says, Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: "Always think of Me, become My devotee, offer your obeisances unto Me." So any religion that has no conception of God, how he can think of God? If I think of something, that something must be known to me; otherwise how can I think of it? If I imagine something, that is not wanted. My imagination of God... God is not a thing to be imagined by me. He is a concrete thing. Therefore according to our philosophy, any so-called religion which has no conception of God, that is not religion. That is simply mental speculation. We accept that religion means the law given by God. But if you do not know what is God, what is His law, then where is religion? Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that all types of pseudo religion is rejected. You can ask any religious man, "What is your conception of God?" he cannot give any clear conception. So far we are concerned, we can immediately give conception of God—His name, His address, everything. That is the difference. Strictly speaking, we do not accept any system of religion as bona fide. They are all rejected. That is not religion. They do not know what is God. What is that religion? Strictly speaking, that is not religion. But if we speak publicly, they will be angry. So this comparative study of religion, we don't believe in it, because there is no religion. Where is the scope of comparative study?

Devotee: Nothing can compare.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Anything which can be engaged in the service of the Lord should not be given up. This is our philosophy. Should not be given up. We do not say, "Oh, money is material. I do not touch. My hand becomes turned up." No. We don't say all these nonsense philosophy. (laughs) We know that money, lakṣmī, is Kṛṣṇa's property, so it should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Why money should not be touched? Money is Kṛṣṇa's. It must be touched and used for Kṛṣṇa. We don't try to (indistinct) that pseudo renouncement. What I have got that I shall renouncement? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Our renouncement means we renounce our personal sense gratification, that's all. That is renouncement. Materialism means personal sense gratification, and spiritual life means no personal sense gratification, all Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification. That's all. The same teaching by Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna was thinking in terms of personal sense gratification: "I shall not fight. It is not good to kill my kinsmen, my brother." That was personal sense gratification. From ordinary point of view people will say, "How Kṛṣṇa is..., Arjuna is nice, that he's giving up his claim, and nonviolent." But this philosophy Kṛṣṇa immediately kicked out. Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam. "Oh, why you are talking nonsense like this?" That was His answer. (laughs) Next He says, aśocyān anvaśocas tvam prajñā-vādāṁś ca (BG 2.11), "You are talking just like a very learned man, but this kind of lamentation is not done by any learned. That means you are fool number one." (laughter) So after understanding Bhagavad-gītā he agreed to fight. "Yes. I shall fight." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is nothing. That period of time is relative. As human beings, we live for some time-say for a hundred years—but there are demigods who can live for millions of years. And an ant will live for only a few hours. So this is relative. But time is eternal, and what is happening in so-called human history has no consideration from the viewpoint of eternal time. That is all relative. If there is some catastrophe in ant society, the ants may be very much concerned, but human society does not take any notice of it. Similarly, if a catastrophe occurs in human society, the demigods, who are higher than us, do not consider it. Some birds or cats or dogs may be fighting, and for them it may be a catastrophe, but for us it is nothing. This is the relative world, and we should know that what has happened in this world is not worthy of consideration in terms of universal affairs. Things are coming and going like seasonal changes. Arjuna put this question to Kṛṣṇa: "This is a catastrophe! I have to kill my own men." Although Arjuna believed this to be a catastrophe, Kṛṣṇa likened it to seasonal changes. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). "O son of Kuntī, the non-permanent appearance of happiness and distress and their disappearance in due course are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons." In the winter season water is not very pleasant, but in the summer it is very pleasing.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Guest (3): He has seen the book and from where the centers are listed, that's all. He is...

Prabhupāda: No, we have got center in Bombay. No, I have... My personal centers are not there. But just like Gītā Press. They are also publishing Bhagavad-gītā, millions of copies every month, and that is being distributed in India. So why does he say, "Indians, they do not know"? That is foolishness. Every Indian knows what is Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (2): You're talking about the center, Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (3): Yeah, they look at this point of view because they think if that's the only movement which he associated with Lord Kṛṣṇa, but Lord Kṛṣṇa is almost in every home in India.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Janmāṣṭamī, Kṛṣṇa's birthday, is observed by every Indian still, although artificially they are being checked not to take to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is presented by government in so many bad way. You see? In government there is a paper. It is called "Indian Culture," something. In that paper Kṛṣṇa is depicted as a bil boy. (?)

Guest (3): What?

Prabhupāda: Bil boy means just like black, Negro. And He is worshiped. Such a rascal. Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, and for Kṛṣṇa worship so many Vedic literature, and government is presenting Him as bil boy. Just see what kind of government we have got.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that they used to live..., the history, because they don't have the complete information.

Prabhupāda: No, you are rascal, you have rascal's history. We are not rascal; we have got another history. Why shall I accept your history? You are rascal. You be satisfied with the history that your great grandfather and his father used to live in the cave. But we don't accept. Our forefather used to live in palace. Sixteen thousand palaces, Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) So you rascal, you live with your own history. Why you force your rascaldom history upon us? We are not going to accept. We get history from five thousand years ago. You have no history beyond three thousand years. But we give the shortest history, five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa. And how much intelligent from historical point of view Kṛṣṇa was. We can understand from His instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. It is not that because we are Kṛṣṇaites we are canvassing. The whole world is reading Bhagavad-gītā. Why, unless there is intelligence? All scholars, all religionists, all philosophers, they are giving attention to Bhagavad-gītā. So how you can say Kṛṣṇa was living in the cave? Your forefather might be living in a cave, but our forefather did not live in a cave but palaces. Your forefather is a monkey, according to that history.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: Before that they had dinosaurs.

Devotee (2): Prehistoric.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Jayatīrtha: Even from a commonsense point of view, it's easy to understand that there's been civilization longer than five thousand years (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Our proposition is the first creature of this universe is Lord Brahmā, who has created the universe. First creature of this universe, the most intelligent person. How we can accept the nonsense that this has developed from stone? (Sanskrit) cakra bhagavān (Sanskrit). Do you know this story?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) cakra bhagavān (Sanskrit). So there was a circle of friends. So all the friends conspired to make another friend bewildered. So they conspired that "As soon as you meet that gentleman you cry, 'Oh, here is a ghost! Here is a ghost! Here is a ghost!' " So all the friends, they come (indistinct), "Oh! You are dead, you are ghost, you are ghost!" So after ten times like that, he thought, "Have I become a ghost?" Then he became bewildered, "Whether really I have become ghost, I am dead?" He became puzzled. This is like that: "There was no human being, there was no human being," and all the rascals are now thinking whether this is right. This is cakra bhagavān (Sanskrit). If you make conspiracy, even the sane man will think himself that "I have become ghost."

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not so much.

Śyāmasundara: And the father of one of our Godbrothers from America, Mr. Teton, he's from Chicago, he was there with Girirāja, and she was saying to him, his sister was saying to him, "You're so fortunate that your son is a devotee." He's a very wealthy attorney in Chicago, and his only son is a devotee, but he is somewhat, from material point of view, he was somewhat confused. So she said, "You should be very happy that your son is a devotee. I have eight sons, and they are not like your son."

Guru dāsa: You met Girirāja. He came last time to the city.

Ambassador: Oh, yes. I remember. Yes, yes.

Guru dāsa: He's from Chicago.

Ambassador: That's right. Now he, uh, he has a wife here? No? He's not married?

Prabhupāda: No, he's not.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Ambassador: Uh, Your Divine Grace, I'm sorry, but I have an Ambassador waiting, and I have to move from the sublime to the mundane. I'd like to continue this, but he has this appointment and I have to... But I appreciate very much your coming in and...

Prabhupāda: Now, I am also coming to the mundane point of view. The next time I want, when I go and come back to USA, I wish to see the President, if you can help me?

Ambassador: Well I, I can write a letter, but uh, I've had, let me, don't let me discourage you, but let me tell you that I've had at least a dozen religious leaders from India request the same thing, and none of them have gotten to see the President.

Prabhupāda: But one thing is...

Ambassador: But I'll be glad to try to help.

Prabhupāda: So, the things are, such an important philosophy, important movement is going unnoticed. You are busy to help the whole world so that peace will come, people may be happy, but instead of being happy, your country are becoming hippie.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The future is not very nice. And government management means no one's servant.

Pañca-draviḍa: No what?

Prabhupāda: No one's servant. Everyone's servant means no one's servant. They are no one's servant.

Pañca-draviḍa: They will never give you anything.

Prabhupāda: Comparatively, life in foreign countries nice. Because I am seeing, from materialistic point of view. In America, you can get anything without any control. Any amount, anything.

Gurudāsa: There is more supply than demand.

Indian man: Than demand, yes. That is the problem there: what to do with the stuff that you have got and that you are producing. That's an economic problem.

Pañca-draviḍa: Not just supply, quality. When you buy an orange and you have a glass of orange juice, it's orange, it's not yellow. (laughter)

Devotee (3): But by their lack of demand, we are reaping a harvest.

Prabhupāda: Yes, especially in California, oranges, if you compare orange here available... Dates, first-class dates, first-class orange. There is watermelon. All season you get watermelon, karmuj(?). First-class watermelon. And karmuj. And what is that special karmuj produced in Keśi-ghāṭa? That greenish?

Gurudāsa: Honeydew?

Indian man: There is no special name for it.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: So this is the idea which I was explaining that...

Guest (2): (Indonesian) As a matter of fact, also that we are looking from the Hindu and Buddhist religions' point of view, how to get (indistinct) this department, especially because we are feeling of lacking of materials because no of our books actually here, written in ancient Indonesian language, which are translated from Sanskrit (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Ancient English...?

Guest (2): Ancient Indonesian language.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Guest (2): And now actually, most of the Sanskrit texts also, are not available anymore. Of course we have some few can be available from (indistinct) and that is why actually, to develop this new religions, as well as the Buddhist religion, which have a lack of material for reading. Now the government also tried to rewrite into Indonesian bhāṣā, and as one of the aspects, for example, that Bhagavad-gītā has been translated into Indonesian.

Prabhupāda: Mmmm.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Guest (2): Which we are expecting that this Bhagavad-gītā should be read by English (indistinct) and also, matter of fact, most of English readers can understand and they have the ideas of the Mahābhārata, and Rāmāyaṇa, and the essence of the Bhagavad-gītā. Now the problems, at least the department has (indistinct) facing difficulties to supply materials that are actually needed by the people, is we are lacking of materials. So how, actually we have to solve this problem actually. We are actually, from the government point of view always looking and how we can try to get international relationships between various countries to solve the problems. As the same case also how to educate Indonesian peoples to study more about the Hinduism in order they can teach the Hinduism because in our country religious instruction is compulsory in our, any institution. So we felt, actually in our lack of material as well as lack of institution to develop this Hindu religions. And I, from our government actually, we are expected your visit here that it will be beneficial, both for our side, from the government point of view, and as well as for here and as well in your country.

Prabhupāda: So I think your problems can be solved if you kindly cooperate with us.

Guest (2): Yes. That's why we are looking for... because...

Prabhupāda: We can give you correct idea of religious principles as well as our philosophy.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: You think that is, uh, scientific?

Krishna Tiwari: Scientists will study... If they want to study a body, they study first outside, looking at what they can learn. Then after sometime it is stopped. Then one has to go inside.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right. So our point of view is when we study the body, we study first of all the soul.

Krishna Tiwari: But how we know about soul?

Prabhupāda: We know from the Vedic knowledge.

Krishna Tiwari: Yeah, well somebody said there is a soul, but the question is, unless we all realize, and there is a way of...

Prabhupāda: We realize, everyone realize. As soon as the soul goes away, your body is lump of matter.

Krishna Tiwari: Oh, well (laughs), this is just dead. I mean, I don't know whether soul went away or not. I don't know.

Prabhupāda: You don't know, but I know.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Krishna Tiwari: Sure, I do not believe.

Prabhupāda: So it is your opinion.

Krishna Tiwari: I do not believe in the strict following of every word...

Prabhupāda: That's all right, that is your, that is your point of view, but that is not our point of view.

Krishna Tiwari: Well, right, we disagree on that one.

Śyāmasundara: You said once, in a court of law, if there are two points of view at the final judgment, it has to be judged by the results of which point of view. So if you, if you judge by the results of our process and his process which people are..., have attained to some kind of perfect understanding of themselves, some kind of satisfaction with life, you have to point to our process and say that ours gets the balance of favorable opinion, because in your process, no one has been made happy.

Krishna Tiwari: How does say that in your process, anybody has been made happy?

Prabhupāda: Everyone who follows Vedic injunctions, they're happy.

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Yogeśvara: They just accumulate knowledge just for knowledge sake.

Prabhupāda: Not just for knowledge because they do not get any knowledge. They have no knowledge. What is the knowledge? They talk all nonsense. What is the knowledge?

Revatīnandana: His argument was "Well there's no point in talking about this matter. All of us accept this." He's saying: all big authorities, they accept this point of view, that this was recently written literature.

Prabhupāda: No, they don't know who are authorities.

Revatīnandana: That's right.

Prabhupāda: You manufacture your own authorities. You do not know. That is your misfortune. You do not know who is authority.

Devotee (2): They all smoke cigarettes and they think they're authorities. They're nonsense.

Revatīnandana: I met another old authority on Sanskrit and he is sitting behind his desk and his whole body is shaking: "No, I'm not interested in the spiritual side of these Vedas. I'm just interested in the Sanskrit." He's dying you know, and still he's like that. That's their authority. You can't save them but...

Prabhupāda: Adhyaki, adhyaki(?), therefore adhyaki(?).

Revatīnandana: What's that?

Prabhupāda: External. Adhyaki(?). (indistinct) ...one is interested in the body not in the soul. So he is a fool. This, this sculptor, he is simply interested in the outward body, he has no knowledge of the soul. And he wants to become a very famous man, remaining in the category of asses. Because one who is in the bodily concept of life, he is an ass. Go-khara, khara means ass. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life he is no better than animal. The cats and dogs, they are also in the bodily concept of life. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So he has not advanced beyond these cats and dogs because he is in the same conception, that I am this body. A dog cannot understand that you are not this body. So similarly, if the human being cannot understand that he is not this body, what is the difference between him and the dog? So śāstra says sa eva go-kharaḥ: (SB 10.84.13) he's no better than the cows and the asses. That's all. And actually it is a fact. The first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, they cannot take it, and they're scholars. That is the most regrettable situation that these fools and rascals under the bodily concept of life, they are become authorities. Actually they are asses. Yes.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Four hundred years ago the land was there. They, these Europeans, migrated there. Now they are proprietor. So four hundred years ago, who was the proprietor. In this way, trace history. The land is there, the ocean is there, everything is there. We sometimes claim that "I am the proprietor," "We are the proprietor," but this is lying there. Who is actually the proprietor? Actually proprietor is God, Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything is owned by the supreme īśvara. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So if we study scrutinizingly, then we'll find God is the proprietor actually. He is the creator; therefore He is the proprietor. And because He is the proprietor, He is friend of all. Actually. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Īśvara is situated in everyone's heart as Paramātmā, and He's giving us good counsel. We are not abiding by that. We are disobeying. Therefore we are suffering. Otherwise, He's giving us good counsel, good advice. So this formula, that bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām... (BG 5.29). So if we accept God, or Kṛṣṇa, as the supreme friend, then whatever advice He'll give me, if we follow, then I am happy. There is no difficulty. He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If we do that, we become happy. Where is the difficulty? From historical point of view... Of course, no, I mean to say, religious literature is older than Bhagavad-gītā. It was spoken by the Supreme Lord personally five thousand years ago. And that old thing we are presenting as it is. Our Bhagavad-gītā is therefore named Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Without any interpretation. Without any addition, alteration. No, we don't make that. If we make addition, alteration, then where is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? We don't do that. And that is proving effective. Those who are taking according to the instruction, they're becoming happy. Practical. Without any consideration of time, country, people. Anyone is accepting, and he's becoming happy. And they are not expected to undergo very severe type of austerities. Neither prāṇāyāma or yoga. They are unable.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So let us...

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Now, in India more people are living in the western way, though, living in cities, working in factories and offices. Does this make them have the western state of mind, the western point of view? Or can they resist it?

Prabhupāda: No, everything can be changed. If they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The consciousness has to be changed.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, that... Yes.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, let him work in the factory or in the office, in the city. It doesn't matter. One has to change his consciousness. Then he's perfect, Kṛṣṇa conscious, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That consciousness has to be changed. Then everything will be, automatically become...

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. (pause)

Prabhupāda: What book you are writing now?

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Oh, I'm writing a book about Greece, about the effect of ancient Greece on present-day Greece.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: I would rather have people make mistakes when they had self-government than if you had a dictatorship which didn't make mistakes and imposed it's own...

Prabhupāda: No, but my proposition is that they should not commit, either the king or the elected person should not commit mistake. But if you try to educate the mass of people to become educated to elect the right person, that is very difficult. But if a king, a person, is educated nicely, that is easier. That is my point of view.

Lord Brockway: Yes. Yes, but the mass of people in poverty, the...

Prabhupāda: No, everything will be all right. Because the man on the head is perfectly, he'll manage, he'll manage. But if he's not perfect, then it is not possible. Therefore the endeavor should be made... Either call it dictator or president or king, it doesn't matter. The man on the top of the executive must be a perfect man.

Lord Brockway: Now, in taking your view that all men and women are the children of God, they've got God within them, then the advance of mankind must be by giving the opportunity of God in all men and women.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: Hm. Hm. I agree.

Prabhupāda: The Congress side, the followers of Gandhi should have followed Gandhi's principles—from political point of view. Village organization. But they won't do that.

Devotee: (to guests:) Some kṣīra?

Reporter: Oh!

Prabhupāda: That's all? Don't get more?

Reporter: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: They actually, by destroying the Manchester millionaires, Gandhi gave opportunity to the Ahmadabad millionaires. And the consumers, instead of purchasing Manchester cloth at one rupee per pair, now they're purchasing at thirty rupees per pair.

Reporter: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: Oui. But I think there is, at first, a great duty to help men and women and children to live and actually it is the first duty. It is more important to help men and women to life. The life of beast is of minor importance than the life of men.

Prabhupāda: From that point of view, you can kill lower animals. Why should you kill mother?

Cardinal Danielou: Oui, oui. Mother. Man, as human being is not the same that...

Prabhupāda: And it is not moral. Even if you kill animals for maintaining your..., allowing that, there are many other, hundreds and thousands of animals. So if you at all require, people eat also hogs, sometimes, in wartime, they ate dogs also. And there are persons, they regularly eat dogs in Korea. They eat dogs regularly. So even animal killing is necessary for...

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes, it is...

Prabhupāda: ...for eating, then at least the mother animal should not be killed. That is from moral point of view.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, from moral point of view...

Prabhupāda: So our point of view is that we don't allow killing any animal. Our Kṛṣṇa says: patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Kṛṣṇa says vegetable, fruits, milk, grains, all these things should be offered to Me with devotion. And you should take the remnants of the foodstuff. So we take prasādam. And Kṛṣṇa says: "Give Me foodstuff prepared from this group." That we do. Accepting that the fruits, they have got life. But fruits are by nature... There are many fruits. It is offered by the tree for eating. The tree's not killed. So we accept this philosophy also that a, one animal, one living entity is meant for being food for another living entity. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. That we also accept, but that does not mean one living entity is the food for another living entity, that does not mean I can kill my mother, my child... That is not, sir. So at least this must be taken into consideration that cows, innocent, they give us milk, we take its milk, and we kill in regular slaughterhouse, this is not very good thing. It is sinful.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much.

Cardinal Danielou: (indistinct)

Yogeśvara: Does the fact that Christianity, does the fact that Christianity sanctions eating of meat mean that from the Christian viewpoint, lower species of life do not have a soul like human beings.

Cardinal Danielou: Dites en francais.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Cardinal Danielou: (French)

Yogeśvara: (French)

Cardinal Danielou: Oui.

Yogeśvara: He says: "No, that yes, this is the philosophy, that, that below the human level, the soul does not inhabit the body of other species."

Cardinal Danielou: The soul, the soul, the soul is, is human soul. In the animal you have some psychologic existence, but not life of spirit with freedom, with mind and with the reality of spirit. But you have the same idea because you said that there is a difference of nature between spiritual creation and the material world. You know, the material world is not of the same essence than the spiritual world. And the man, the man is a part of spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: No. Our Bhagavad-gītā says: sarva-yoniṣu. "In all species of life, as many forms are there, so the spirit soul is there." This outward body is just like a dress. You may have a very costly dress, and I may have a very shabby, poor dress, but both of us are human being, or living entities. Similarly these different forms of living entities, they are just like different types of dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like you are in black dress. I am in saffron dress...

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: In order to achieve our goals, do we intend doing like the Christians tried to do, making everyone convert to their side. Is that what we want to do, make everyone convert to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is good, why everyone should not take to it?

Yogeśvara: Ah. This is an important question. He says seeing the world as it is today, what is the most preferable social organization from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: How should society be organized in order to achieve these goals?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You organize that there should be division of different classes of men. The first class men, the second class men, the third class men, fourth class men. The first-class men means the most intelligent class of men. Second-class men means those who are dealing in politics. Third-class men means those who are dealing in economics, industry, trade. And fourth-class men means they have no intelligence to take up all these things, but they work only. But all of them should cooperate. For the general benefit of the whole human society. We have got engagement for the first-class men, second-class men, third-class men, fourth-class men. Just like we have got in our body the brain, the arms, the belly, and the legs. But all of them are cooperating for keeping the body fit. Similarly, the first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men should cooperate for achieving the end, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Even a snake is there, he should not also starve. He must have food. We do not support such rascal philosophy that you give food to the man, and send the animals to the slaughterhouse. We do not support this rascaldom, our philosophy is: as human being has got the right to take share of God's property and live, similarly all other living entities, they have got right.

Reporter: Have you a point of view about the demographic problem and the problem of (French)?

Yogeśvara: Do we have a viewpoint on contraception?

Prabhupāda: That is most sinful activity. Because a child is coming to live at the expense of God's property, and the rascal father is thinking of overpopulation.

Yogeśvara: Or, as Prabhupāda was saying, he's thinking there's overpopulation.

Reporter: (French)

Yogeśvara: But he says but this is a fact, this overpopulation.

Prabhupāda: That is another wrong impression. Foolish impression. The whole world has got sufficient place to produce food for ten times the population as it is now. The Americans, they throw grains in the water. So if they send the excess grain to the place where grain is not sufficient, then it is God conscious-ness. If the so-called overpopulation is spread all over the world, there is sufficient place in Africa, Australia, America. The overpopulation can grow their food in these vast uncultivated land.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But we can ask what is this cosmic manifestation, what is the purpose of this, who created, how it is created. Are they not scientific?

Dr. Inger: Yes. Now this is another problem. Everything of a philosophical kind, they call it science, human sciences, natural sciences, moral sciences. They think that is a fault(?) to satisfy scientific spirit. I think from that point of view, they allow big conferences to be held where a particular theme is taken, different people come. So the organization encourages, stimulates activities proposed, submitted and finally passed in resolutions by different commissions and different countries. And then it's held. And at that particular time, some people come and speak. So they have had... But they haven't... Mostly these meetings have been held and... Very few have been held here, except when they celebrated the tintinary(?) of Aurobindo, last year. Or when they celebrated the centenary of, another centenary of Ramakrishna. Like that. But not always.

Prabhupāda: Not Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Inger: They haven't. Not so far. Because from their point of view they have to prove the dates, historical dates, how many centuries, and so forth.

Prabhupāda: It is there in the śāstras.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Dr. Inger: They don't go to the basic.

Prabhupāda: Śrama eva hi kevalam. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as simply wasting time. That's all.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhithaḥ puṁsāṁ
viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
notpādayed ratiṁ yadi
śrama eva hi kevalam
(SB 1.2.8)

Śrama eva hi kevalam. Everyone is acting. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhithaḥ. According to Vedic civilization, there are four divisions of men. brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and further, spiritual divisions, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So everyone has got some duty according to his position. So Bhāgavata says that even a person executes his duty very perfectly, but if he does not awaken his Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then all that he has done is simply a waste of time. So our point is that the UNESCO, United Nations, UNO, they're simply wasting their time. From practical point of view, they're unable to do anything. Because the original idea was to stop war. But the war is going on, fighting is going on. They could not stop it. And United Nations... But actually they are becoming disunited more and more. Pakistan was not there. You know very well. Lahore was your country. Now it is other's country. So in this way, there cannot be any solution. There cannot be any solution. We must know the central point. The central point is Kṛṣṇa. We get from... I'm not manufacturing these ideas. Bhagavad-gita is recognized book.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What is the purport? Read.

Śrutakīrti: "The duration of the material universe is limited. It is manifested in cycles of kalpas. A kalpa is a day of Brahmā and one day of Brahmā consists of a thousand cycles of four yugas or ages, Satya, Tretā, Dvāpara and Kali. A cycle of Satya is characterized by virtue, wisdom and religion, there being practically no ignorance and vice, and the yuga lasts one million, seven hundred and twenty-eight thousand years. In the Tretā-yuga vice is introduced and this yuga lasts 1,296,000 years. In the Dvāpara-yuga there is an even greater decline in virtue and religion, vice increasing, and the yuga lasts 864,000 years. And finally in Kali-yuga, the yuga we have now been experiencing over the past five thousand years, there is an abundance of strife, ignorance, irreligion and vice, true virtue being practically non-existent, and this yuga lasts 432,000 years. In Kali-yuga vice increases to such a point that at the termination of the yuga, the Supreme Lord Himself appears as the Kalki avatāra, vanquishes the demons, saves His devotees and commences another Satya-yuga. Then the process is set rolling again. These four yugas, rotating a thousand times, compromise one day of Brahmā, the creator god, and the same number compromise one night. Brahmā lives one hundred of such years and then dies. These hundred years, by Earth calculations total to 311,000,040,000,000 Earth years. By these calculations, a life of Brahmā seems fantastic and interminable, but from the point, from the viewpoint of eternity, it is as brief as a lightning flash. In the Causal Ocean, there are innumerable Brahmās, rising and disappearing like bubbles in the Atlantic. Brahmā and his creation are all part of the material universe, and therefore they are in constant flux. In the material universe, not even Brahmā is free from the process of birth, disease, old age and death. Brahmā, however, is directly engaged in the service of the Supreme Lord in the management of this universe. Therefore he at once attains liberation. Elevated sannyāsīs are promoted to Brahmā's particular planet, Brahmaloka, which is the highest planet in the material universe, and which survives all the heavenly planets in the upper strata of the planetary system. But in due course, Brahmā, and all inhabitants of Brahmaloka are subject to death, according to the law of material nature."

Prabhupāda: In the higher planetary system also, the four rules, birth, death, old age and disease, they are also there. The life is long duration. But the miserable conditions of, or living conditions, that one must die, that is there also. Simply if you go to Kṛṣṇa's planet, you haven't got to die. Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: They are not standard. We are following Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, standard, and they have got their own manufactured way. So we don't recognize them. Our process is evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. What Kṛṣṇa said, the disciplic succession will say the same thing. But they are speaking differently. So therefore we don't take them as bona fide. They are not bona fide. And from external point of view, we have got so many literatures, so many branches, so many devotees, within six years. But they haven't got such thing. Even Ramakrishna Mission. They are working for the last eighty years. And I have worked only for six years. And my result is eighty times more than them. They also acknowledge.

Yogeśvara: Phalena paricīyate.

Professor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Phalena paricīyate. Yes. And we shall... Our manuscript is ready for sixty volumes but we are gradually publishing. Already we have got about twenty volumes, different kinds of literatures. Yes. Show all the books. You have seen our books? No.

Room Conversation with Officer Harry Edwards, the Village Policeman -- August 30, 1973, Bhaktivedanta Manor, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harry: But the point is this, that if you just act as you are, and, if you don't mind me saying... These little things which come back to me, and thinking a bit logically, from a common sense point of view, I don't think it's necessary. But you can tell me to mind my own business. I'm not here to dictate to you. Now you must remember this. And the only time I should dictate to you is if you commit any offense outside the road where my jurisdiction starts, or there is a serious incident in the temple which I would have to come out and sort out. Now can you follow me?

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Revatīnandana: Actually, we would appreciate if you would tell us these things, that the village people are thinking this, thinking that. If they're feeling unhappy about something, if it's something that we can change, let us know.

Harry: Well, this is it. Look... But you can't do this... Rome wasn't built in a day.

Prabhupāda: No, you cannot satisfy...

Harry: You cannot satisfy everyone.

Revatīnandana: No, but about our external behavior...

Prabhupāda: That's not. We cannot change our policy.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1973, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Useless. Avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpitaḥ. It is already taken. Nirūpita means there is no argument. It is already concluded.

Guest (1): Your business is not to prove or disprove, but to glorify Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By your knowledge. If you are scientist, you are chemist, through chemical challenge you try to glorify the Supreme Lord. If you are physicist, from physical point of view, try to explain. If you are scientist... Anyway, because ultimate... Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Any knowledge, that is... You have to approve the Supreme. That is real perfect knowledge. And at the present moment men of knowledge they are rejecting. Because they cannot explain, they are rejecting. They do not bother.

Guest (1): Modern science has cleared the deck very much for religion. They are not so dogmatic as the old scientists used to be.

Prabhupāda: What do they say now?

Guest (1): Well, you see, the modern scientific discoveries have led to the stage at which the science can no more say that religion is humbug. Now they say, "Well, we do not know. Honestly speaking, that is the position," they say.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Śyāmasundara: Ah.

Prabhupāda: So they, these so-called leaders are so fools that they... Therefore they don't believe in next life. Because that is very horrible for them. But the next life is there. Just like we, we, we have our next life. We had our previous life, then now another life, another life. So this simple thing they cannot understand. Nature is controlling this, next life, next life. Otherwise why so many varieties of life? So they have no brain. They are simply making plan for the fifty years duration of life. That's all. And even from practical point of view, suppose you are constructing a very nice house, and if you know that next day you'll be kicked out, you'll die, will you do that? But it is a fact. Next day or two days after, you'll die. That's a fact. So first of all, make arrangement that you'll not die, you'll be able to live here. That is their foolishness.

Śyāmasundara: Sometimes they take refuge in the idea that: "My family will live on," or "My species..." or "my..."

Prabhupāda: That's...

Śyāmasundara: "...children..."

Prabhupāda: ...all right. The family will live on not forever. They'll live also, say, for few days. Just we go sometimes in... Just like in England, the castles are there, very old castle, thousand years, two thousand... Even this Westminster Abbey and palace, but which king has lived for there permanently? And now, if you know more, if the king has, by his work, become something else. Not necessarily he'll become a king in that house. He may become a dog there. This science they do not know. And they are proud of their education, culture. Suppose we are constructing the Vṛndāvana temple or Bombay temple. It is also certain we shall not live, but our attempt to construct that temple will be recorded in Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: If we were there and we could make one speech in front of that assembled Congress and Senate, the main government of the United States, what were the main points we would stress?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The main point is that "In God we trust," on this slogan... So the same point that, "What do you mean by God and what do you mean by trust? That you do not know." So you have to explain what is God and what is trust, thoroughly, from our books. Our point of propaganda should be that "It is very good that you write this slogan, 'In God we trust,' but nobody has got clear conception of God; neither they do not know what is the meaning of trust. Under the circumstances, so you have to learn it scientifically. And our propaganda is like that, to teach actually what is God and what is trust. And you important men of the state, you come forward, try to understand, and open schools, colleges. Make it perfectly known what is God. And make America strong. As the Communist party, they are preaching godlessness, now America should preach, 'No, in God we trust.' Now there should be a fight, not on the political point of view, but actually it includes everything. A class of men godless and a class of men who knows God. There should be fight. Then there will be peace in the world. The class of men who do not believe in God, they should be punished, because they are creating all the troubles. A man who trusts in God, he is the ideal man. He will never create any trouble. Therefore this science should be learned very scientifically. And we are prepared. And you also must be able to teach them. Then it will be successful." (Aside:) You leave little aloof. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. "Anyone who does not know what is God and does not know how to trust in God, he is animal. So how you can expect a human civilization composed of some animals? That you have to learn from us. If you are serious. If you simply make it a slogan, but you remain same as the man who does not know what is God, then what is the meaning of this slogan? That will not help you." Just like sometimes they put the signboard, "Goodman and Company," businessmen. The signboard is "Goodman," but he is cheating simply, from business point of view. That kind of signboard will not help you. If you actually believe in God, then try to understand what is God. Otherwise how you can believe? If you do not know the person in whom you have to trust, how you can trust Him? Is it clear or not? I say, "Trust in Him," but if I do not know that man, how I can trust? You must explain that "This man is in this way trustworthy." Otherwise what is the meaning of my trust? This science should be understood, what is God and what is trust. That you discuss thoroughly, threadbare. Otherwise how you will be able to preach? Ask all questions. I will answer. But you must be thoroughly conversant that there is need of God and everyone must trust in God.

Page Title:Point of view (Conversations 1967 - 1973)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:10 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=65, Let=0
No. of Quotes:65