Plus (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"plus"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Caller: Yes, that's what I wanted to know. I think there is a comparison, not between organized religion as such, but just getting down to the bare facts of what Jesus spoke about. I think there's a similarity.

Prabhupāda: There is similarity, but one thing is, just like mathematics taught in the lower class. Two plus two equal to four is equally applicable in higher mathematics, two plus two equal to four. In higher mathematics it does not become two plus two equal to five. Similarly, the teachings of Bible or teachings of Bhagavad-gītā are the same, the same "two plus two."

Caller: Right, right...

Prabhupāda: But in the Bhagavad-gītā, it may be taken as higher mathematics. That's all.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Guest (4): Mahārāja, do the Western and Eastern societies respond differently to this call...

Prabhupāda: No. You cannot say that. Two plus two equal to four everywhere, East and West. There is no difference, East and West. It is scientific. It is vijñaṇa. So when you call of, talk of science, there is no difference of understanding in the East and West. The same thing is understood.

Guest (4): Mahārāja, (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Varnāśrama-dharma... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Qualified. Therefore we want qualified brāhmaṇas, qualified kṣatriyas. At the present moment, without being qualified, they are passing on as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. That is not varṇāśrama. Without being qualified they are all śūdras, all caṇḍālas. But when they are properly trained and qualified, then it is varṇāśrama, real varṇāśrama.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: He also went through in Maharastra by His chanting, (indistinct)

Haṁsadūta: And most important, Prabhupāda has presented Bhagavad-gītā. He calls it "Bhagavad-gītā As It Is." He explains in the introduction that till now there's been so many Bhagavad-gitas printed in all languages and all of them are misrepresenting. They have not presented Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They are trying to present Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. They want to leave out the speaker of Bhagavad-gītā and put themselves forward. So Prabhupāda has presented Bhagavad-gītā As It Is and therefore this movement has taken such hold because the real thing is being presented. This is in San Francisco, California. Then, the Nectar of Devotion, Rūpa Gosvāmī's book Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, also there. This book is the lawbook of devotional service. Īśopaniṣad, word for word translation, then the complete English translation and purport by His Divine Grace. So these books are (indistinct) bhakti-yoga (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa consciousness (indistinct) explaining the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we have so much literature. And in India we've introduced a program, our membership program, so that we can go on distributing these literatures. And that membership program, there are four types of membership. One is life membership. Life membership means the member is entitled to all the books that we have printed plus all the books we will print in the future, plus a lifetime subscription to our magazine, Back to Godhead. And the member is entitled to stay at any one of our branches throughout the world free and if he happens to travel abroad or in India. We will have our branches. So that life membership fee is 1,111 rupees. And then we have donor membership. The donor member is entitled to all the books that have been printed, a lifetime subscription to our magazine, but he does not get the books in the future. That is 555 rupees. And subscriber membership, lifetime subscription to our magazine, which is 222 rupees. Or there is membership, yearly subscription to our magazine. In this way we're trying to recruit members that support our movement. This movement is being supported just by literature. So in this way we can flood the whole world with Kṛṣṇa consciousness and then there'll be a change. If we want to see a change in the world, then we have to distribute knowledge of Kṛṣṇa in this way. You are welcome to become a member. And also your friends. Tell them about our membership programs.

Guest (1): Swamiji, open a center here.

Prabhupāda: I wish to. I wish to open a center.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (1): It is to be felt.

Prabhupāda: Ah... Yes. It is to be learned, just like the electrician learns how to adjust the positive and negative wire, and as soon as it is rightly adjusted there is light. You cannot say, "No, no, why it shall be adjusted like this? It can be done like this." Oh, that will not give you light. You cannot speculate on the science. One plus... Two plus two equal to four. You cannot speculate, "Oh, can it not be three? Cannot be five?" No, that is not possible. You have to accept this two plus two equal to four. So the same example: so long it was not being adjusted to the right point, there was no light. So this adjustment... Suppose there is failure in my home. For this adjustment I have to call an experienced man. You may be a lawyer, you may be very nice thinker, but so far electricity is concerned, you have to call for a mistrī, who may not be learned like you but he knows the art, how to do it, expert. Similarly, such a vast subject to understand God, you do not require the help of an expert?

Guest (1): I did not take that...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't mean you. Anyone. Anyone. If for ordinary things we have to call for an expert, to understand God is it not necessary to approach an expert? What do you think, Manuel?

Manuel: Yes, yes.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: With any religion.

Interviewer: Beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: Any religion. Because God is one. It is the science of God. The "two plus two equal to four," it is understood by everyone. It is not that it is to be understood by the Christian, not by the Hindus. "Two plus two equal to four" is a fact for everyone. Similarly God is fact for everyone. Now how to love God. This is the only process. That is.

Interviewer: Now do you claim then that your way of loving God is the way to love God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. At least for this age.

Interviewer: For this age?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Any religion.

Interviewer: Beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: Any religion.

Interviewer: Any religion.

Prabhupāda: Because God is one. It is a science of God. If two plus two equal to four, it is understood by everyone. It is not that it is to be understood by the Christian, not by the Hindus. Two plus two equal to four is a fact for everyone. Similarly, God is a fact for everyone. Now, how to love God, this is the only process. That is.

Interviewer: Now, do you claim, then, that your way of loving God is the way to love God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. At least for this age.

Interviewer: For this age?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: You mean for Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of reading. We are simply asking to chant. Reading will come later on. Just like a small child, he's taught... In our educational system they chant... What is that? That...? (Hindi) Pahara pahara.(?)

Indian man: Pahara. Alphabet. A.I.E.

Prabhupāda: They chant. By chanting, by hearing they learn. "A,B,C," like that. "2 plus 2 equal to 4." We did it in our childhood. One boy will chant like that. "2 plus 2 equal to 4." And we shall repeat. "2 plus 2 equal to 4." So repeating three times, I understand 2 plus 2 equal to 4.

Sister Mary: Do you find that the chant goes on in your heart?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Revatīnandana: Do you find that the chant goes on in your heart?

Prabhupāda: Why not? Why not?

Sister Mary: It goes deeper and deeper?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything we hear, it goes to the heart. If I call you by name, it does not go to my heart? "You rascal. You stupid." You hear. Does it not go to my heart? Why I become angry unless it goes to my heart. If "rascal," "stupid," and all these bad names go to my heart, why God's name will not go to my heart? If by calling you by ill names you become angry, that means it goes to your heart. Why not good name? It goes. It enters through the ear and goes to the heart.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know, Prabhupāda, that in Seattle you had me lecture on a newspaper clipping that in New Jersey they had opened up one home for alcoholic priests. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Five thousand, five thousand priests, they are suffering from alcoholism. (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Plus here in India we see that the sādhus are taking gañjā.

Prabhupāda: Gañjā, yes. Not sādhus, rogues. Sādhu's description is there—bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is sādhu. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He is sādhu. Api cet sudurācāro. Even one is found that his habits are not to the standard, but if he has unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa and engaged in His service, then he is sādhu. These sādhus with long hairs and gañjā smoking, they have no idea what is the ultimate goal. And those who come from Western countries, naturally they find out these are the sādhus and they imitate. Hippies, they do like that, imitation. They do not know what is the philosophy, what is religion, what is sādhu.

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: The American hippies actually are following these sādhus. Certain persons, like Allen Ginsberg, have brought back impression that this is what the sādhus...

Prabhupāda: But they do not know that they are not sādhus, they are rogues.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Guest (2): What can appreciation of Kṛṣṇa do for the Americans (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: That, that I have repeatedly said, that you Americans, you are..., you have already the grace of the Lord. According to our Vedic formula, when a man is born in rich family he is understood to be possessing the grace of the Lord. So you Americans, you have got sufficient riches, you are sons of rich men. So this is the grace of God, janma aiśvarya, to take birth in a high family, to possess riches; janmaiśvarya śruta (SB 1.8.26), to become learned scholar. Just like you are going to the moon planet. Your scientific knowledge is advanced. And śrī, śrī means beauty. So you are beautiful also. So considering all these four points, it is to be understood that you are in favorable condition, favorable consideration of the Absolute Truth Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, then all your these material opulences plus Kṛṣṇa consciousness makes your life perfect.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (1): They are impressed by what is called Vedic cosmology, how they knew five thousand years ago about the situation of planets. But then when you get personal, you tell how these planets are coming, then they will not accept. But they are impressed by the stature of the knowledge that is there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The astronomers and the cosmologists, they define the universe in three definitions. And according to their own..., they say the visible space, the universe, they say this is their laboratory for their research to find out the unlimited expanding universe. So this is their laboratory for their... So they call..., this is called observable universe, the universe that can be observed and perceived by instruments. Then another definition of universe they call unlimited. That includes the observable plus everything that is not observable. And the third aspect they call physical universe. That means this universe can be studied by physical laws, mathematics, physics. So they call these are physical universe. So based on these...

Prabhupāda: So how they can say beyond this universe there is no other?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They cannot say that. They still say that there is unlimited aspects that increase for the visible as well as...

Prabhupāda: Invisible.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, without misinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā, or being misled by so-called big, big leaders, if you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, it will be very nice, beneficial to everyone. That is my, not opinion, but is the fact. Things should be taken as it is. Call a spade a spade. Now, interpretation is required when things are not clear. When things are not very clear, not easily understood... There is example in Sanskrit grammar, gaṅgāyāṁ ghoṣa bali(?). The neighborhood of ghoṣa family is on the Ganges. Now, on the Ganges-Ganges is water—how there can be a village? Now, here interpretation required. When the matter is (break) ...on the water but on the bank of the Ganges. So when the meaning is not clear, then you can interpret. But when the meaning is clear... Just like Bhagavad-gītā: dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Now Kurukṣetra is still there, in..., about 90 miles away from Delhi. Perhaps you have been there. The station is there, Kurukṣetra. Now how one can interpret that kurukṣetra means this body? This is going on. In spite of clear understanding, they interpret in their own way so that they have got their own philosophy, they want to support. This is going on. So if you kindly avoid this misleading interpretation, and if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you get the science of God, science of religion, which is applicable either to Indonesian or Indian or African or American, everyone. The science is appreciated everywhere. Two plus two equal to four, this mathematical science is applicable everywhere. It doesn't matter whether one is a Christian or Hindu or Muslim. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā is the science of religion, science of God. So if you take this book seriously, and try to spread this knowledge among your countrymen, I think you'll be very much benefited. And it can be... We are preaching that. We are the, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for one God, one scripture, one mantra, like that, for all people of the world. And we are happy that people are accepting it in that way, very nicely. And it is very easy. It is very easy. So Mr. Director he has read Bhagavad-gītā?

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is deviated. The Bhagavad-gītā, the Chapter, Fourth Chapter explains that you cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation. You must follow the instruction of the original speaker of Bhagavad-gītā. The original speaker is Kṛṣṇa. So what Kṛṣṇa says, they have to follow it. Then it is Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise if you interpret it in a different way then it is not Bhagavad-gītā. Now, what Kṛṣṇa says we have to understand it philosophically, ethically, scientifically, any way, any angle of vision. That is, that you can do. But you cannot change the version of Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot change. Just like Dr. Rādhākrishnan, in the Ninth Chapter when Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Dr. Rādhākrishnan says "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." But Kṛṣṇa person says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "You just always think of Me." And he's deviating his readers, "Not to Kṛṣṇa." How much harm he's doing. This is going on. Why? It is said, Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "Just think of Me. Just become my devotee." What right he has got to say that here it is not to Kṛṣṇa? This is going on. So if we interpret in that nonsense way then we shall not be able to understand Bhagavad-gītā. We shall miss this point. Science does not mean that you have to change according to your whims. Two plus two equal to four. You cannot make it five or three. That is not possible. Then it is not science. No longer the scientific value of this two plus two remains. We follow that principle, and that is the only principle. So if you're actually serious about Bhagavad-gītā, I do not know what is your commentary. I request you, "Try to follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Don't interpret in your own way. Then it will be (indistinct)." Everyone has got (indistinct) all over the world. Therefore we are selling this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is very nicely. Our publisher's MacMillan Co. and their trades managers report is that our Bhagavad-gītā is increasing daily, sales, other decreasing. That is the report, and in October they published 50,000 copies, it is already finished. Now they have to plan it for the second edition. People are very much now, eager to read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. So, imitating us, somebody's, another (chuckles) man, he said "Bhagavad-gītā As It Was." (laughs with everyone) Like that. So that will not harm our cause.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: This divisions only in Hindus?

Prabhupāda: No, this division is meant for everyone.

Scholar: Mohammedans also accept this divisions?

Scholar: Yes. They're accepting. If you don't accept any scientific truth that is your business. That is your business. If you say-two plus two equal to four—"No I don't accept." That is your business. But two plus two equal to four, that is a fact everywhere. Now how these boys have accepted? Now they have got sacred thread, they have become brāhmaṇa.

Scholar: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And they're acting actually as brāhmaṇa. There are many Mohammedans also. You came from Mohammedan. So it is the process of presenting the perfect educational system. Then everyone will accept. Any intelligent man will accept. It is a science. So you have to push this scientific movement throughout the whole world. That is our program. It is not a so-called Hindu cult or a Indian cult. No. It is science to be accepted by everyone if he at all wants to, I mean to say, purify or make his life perfect. Otherwise, he's in darkness. He does not know what he's going to accept another body. He has to accept another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It does not say that this kind of body, dehāntaram, another body. Not..., it is up to you to select what kind of body I am going to accept. I am going to become a cat or dog or a demigod or a big man or a... They do not know yet. This science is unknown to the whole world. We are trying to push on this scientific movement. This is our position. So if you want to cooperate with this scientific movement, then we are prepared. But if you have some other idea, that is different thing. But if we take it seriously as a scientific movement, then we are prepared to cooperate. And if (you) should do, simply formality will not help us.

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Are you going (indistinct) kindly talk with your men (?).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That will be (indistinct) to us, the land of gold and Golden Avatara (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: I am always (indistinct) to this, my American disciples that you are so much, I mean to say, taken care by God (?), this is... Your position is very good. Now you take to Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, and you become a perfect nation. That I preach always. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, you have got everything. All material opulence. Now make it plus Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be very nice. Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. So, these boys are trying, very sincerely and seriously, and I hope, even I do not live many more years, they will carry out this order.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) coming down (indistinct) should be (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: And our (indistinct) Mahārāja...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Prabhupāda said, Bhaktivinoda (Bengali).

Prabhupāda: That he was (indistinct). This is not (indistinct). This is not (indistinct).

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) we are also counted within that...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of western mind, eastern mind. Any sincere student will take to.

David Lawrence: No, I was thinking in terms of the western mind with its culture, more than of philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Western mind... I, I do not find any difference between western mind and eastern mind. Because so many western mind is changed. Yes. So there was no difficulty. Two, two plus two equal to four is to be understood by the western mind and the eastern mind. You cannot say, because you are western mind, you'll say, "No, two plus two equal to five." You cannot say that. So there may be some influence of the culture, but that is superficial. When you speak the real truth, science, that is equally applicable to the western mind and eastern mind. There is no difference. If you speak the real truth... Two plus two equal to four, mathematical calculation, nobody will deny, either western mind or eastern mind. Yes. So he must be reasonable. That's all.

David Lawrence: Yes. That's it.

Prabhupāda: So we expect every human being, rational... Eastern, western, there is no difference.

David Lawrence: As you see from my plans, really what we hoped to do was to, if there was any cultural difference, to some extent eliminate that cultural difference.

Prabhupāda: Then the first thing is therefore you have to understand that "I am not this body." The cultural difference is on account of this bodily conception of life.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Any science does not depend on East and West understanding. Science is science.

Malcolm: No. I'm talking not of science, but of education which...

Prabhupāda: No, education is different. Education may be wrong or right, but science is always the fact. "Two plus two equal to four,"—that is equally good in the East and West, not that in the western countries, two plus two will be five. So similarly, any scientific knowledge, it does not depend on East and West understanding. It is good for everywhere. Similarly, to understand the science of God, it does not depend on the Western culture or Eastern culture. One must be serious to understand. Then it is equally available. Ahaituky apratihatā. These material impediments cannot check progress in the science of God, cannot. Apratihatā, without any checking. That we are experiencing, that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not checked anywhere. We have got branches all over the world. Any country, there is no language difficulty. Wherever we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, they join, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." There is no checking. Even Africa, they are also chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Even the child will chant. They clap. You have seen that a small child is...? I think he..., about six months old. So there is no checking. For spiritual understanding there is no checking. The child, six months' old child, clapping, that means he's joining with the system. He's not sophisticated. He's new child, but automatically... So there is no checking.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: Oh, I agree. I'm a vegetarian.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So this is all due to lack of God consciousness. Therefore the only remedy is to make people God conscious, thoroughly, perfectly. Then everything will be all right.

Lord Brockway: That I don't accept. God consciousness plus understanding.

Prabhupāda: Now, God conscious means understanding. Without understanding, how there can be God consciousness?

Lord Brockway: And you, you may easily have a person who is very God conscious, beautiful in their own lives, beautiful to all the group around them, who have no understanding of the problems of the world at all.

Prabhupāda: That is not perfect God conscious. That is partial. Perfect consciousness means full understanding also. That is perfect God consciousness. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). This is the Vedic injunction. If you understand only God, then you understand everything. But if he does not understand everything rightly, that means he's not fully understanding God. This is the... If, as you say, that a man is fully God conscious, but he cannot do this, cannot do that, that means his understanding of God consciousness is still lacking. It is not full understanding. A full understanding of God consciousness means he's a perfect man. He's a perfect man. He'll never commit anything mistake. Because he's guided. Teṣām... What is that? Bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam... Find out. A God conscious person is getting direct instruction from God. How it can be defective? It cannot be. Practical. But if one is defective, he's not yet fully God conscious.

Room Conversation -- September 1, 1973, London:

Guest: Yes. And how do you know whether you're using it for Kṛṣṇa or not?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That requires training from the Kṛṣṇa's representative, guru. Just like these boys are being trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it requires little training. Just like you are mathematician. To make another student mathematician, you have to train him. You have to teach him how to calculate two plus two equal to four. It will never be five. If somebody says, "No, my calculation is two plus two equal to five." Will it be accepted?

Guest: I'm afraid sometimes it can be true. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: How it can be true?

Guest: One plus one can equal three.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: One plus one can equal three sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Is there mathematical calculation?

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is not very good. Therefore these, they became independent now. But actually, slave means that. If the master likes... What is that light? Some ship?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Karandhara: I think that's an oil well.

Prabhupāda: Oh, oil drilling. So you are theologician. You start this movement, plus our Hare Kṛṣṇa party. And leaders, the propaganda should be that the, at least the priests, who are conducting religious activities, they, the priests and the leaders and the administrators, they must be sinless. Or... Sinless means they should not indulge in these four prohibited principles. Others may do. But the leaders, the political executive, administrators, and the priests who are conducting the church, they must be free from sinful life. Otherwise, there is no question of peace in the society.

Prajāpati: These leaders, they must be above suspicion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion." If the leaders, the priests and the executive heads are all rascal rogues, thieves, and within suspicion, then how there can be, I mean to say, peace in the world? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement,... War was declared against Arjuna because he's, he was sinful. Therefore Kṛṣṇa declared war, "You must kill them. You must kill them, Arjuna." Arjuna was declined, "Oh, let them go. They are my brothers." "No, you must kill them. Don't talk nonsense." That is Kṛṣṇa's idea. That is Bhagavad-gītā. The whole Bhagavad-gītā was spoken just to induce Arjuna to kill the godless, the sinful. That is Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Gap of understanding because the basic principle is wrong, because everyone is fool. And they are trying to understand things with their foolish background. There is the wrong. They are trying to be advanced in knowledge on the foolish background. They do not accept that, that they are foolish rascals. And they are trying to advance in knowledge, active-foolish, fourth class men. Their background is wrong. No scientist, no politician, no philosophers, at the present moment, believe in this, that there is soul, and the soul is transmigrating from one body... Nobody believes it. So their whole background is foolish. So their so-called advancement must be all foolish. They're all fools, rascals, animals. An animal does not know that there is soul and the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. This is animal conception. You cannot teach these pigeons that "You are spirit soul. Your body's different from you." They will, they have no power to understand. So if a human being cannot understand, what is the difference between these pigeons and cats and dogs and him? Then basic principle is wrong. Just like in mathematical calculation, if at one point you have mistaken, then will that be correct ever? It will go on, mistaking, mistaking, mistaking, mistaking. If the, if one point, while adding, you have made two plus two equal to five, then after that, everything wrong, everything wrong. Everything wrong. So that is their position. Their basic principle is like animal. The animal cannot understand that there is soul and there is transmigration of the soul. And if the human society makes progress of their so-called knowledge on this wrong basis understanding, then what will be the result? Everything wrong, everything wrong, everything wrong. Everything foolish. That is stated in the Bhāgavata: parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam: "If somebody does not know what is ātma-tattva, what is the science of soul, then whatever he is making, so-called advancement that is all defeat." Parābhava. That is being done. And defeat they are taking as success. Just like these rascal scientists, they could not go and settle in the moon planet. Still, they are saying, "It is success. It is success." Just see the fun. What success? You could not stay there, and what success you have got? Simply by seeing a crack? "Yes." That's all right, success. And people are accepting, "Oh, yes, you are successful. Now go to another planet." These bogus things are going on.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Śrutakīrti: It's an airplane.

Prabhupāda: And if the light is little more brilliant, that means finished. If the same light becomes little more brilliant, that means finished, fall down immediately. It is a big aeroplane? (break)

Prajāpati: Several years ago you gave a series of lectures in New York on atonement, that are very famous, and devotees, they relish them very much. Prāyaścitta. And this is also in Christian theology to a large extent, plus another concept called feeling very sorry for one's sinful activities.

Prabhupāda: Repentant. Repentant?

Prajāpati: No so much repentance. It is called...

Karandhara: The classic idea is that one goes away and just lives in a state of remorse, solitude and remorse, thinking how sinful and wretched he is, and performing severe austerities.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Karandhara: Going away, living in a monastery, performing severe austerities, and always contemplating how sinful and wretched we are and how we must suffer.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is suffering. But one who knows that he is suffering, he is intelligent. (Aside): Good morning. Everyone is suffering. If you are not suffering, why you have covered? Why you have covered? Because you are suffering, is it not? Why you are not naked body? Because we are suffering, therefore we have covered. It is a fact. And if somebody says, "No, we are not suffering," then he's a madman. So everyone is suffering. One who knows it, he is intelligent man. That's all.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But there is a theory, Śrīla Prabhupāda... Not theory. It's a fact, that if some number is raised to the power zero, that becomes one. In mathematics.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But I am speaking that you combine millions of zeroes. That will never become one. That I am speaking. Zero is zero. Zero plus zero equal to zero. Zero minus zero equal to zero. Zero multiplied zero, zero. Zero divided by zero, zero. That's all. Where you get...? And by the side of zero, if you bring one, eko brahma, immediately it will become ten. And add another zero, immediately hundred, ten times increased. That one must be there, one God. Then zero increases value. Similarly, this material world is zero, but if there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is valuable. Then it is valuable.

Prajāpati: But that manorathena, the chariot of the mind, that is never valuable.

Prabhupāda: No, it has no value.

Prajāpati: The whole western...

Prabhupāda: Manorathena asati dhāvato bahiḥ. By mental speculation, you will remain on this asati, in this temporary field. Asat means "which will not exist." Anything in this material world, you take, that will not exist. Anywhere man can say. The skyscraper building is constructed, but everyone knows that it will not exist. Some day it will fall down. Everyone knows. It will never exist. That is explained by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "If you think that by combination of matter, life has come, so life was not there before the combination. And this combination will dismantle. So life, there will be no more life. So why these three period you are lamenting? There is life." Because according to this theory—"The combination of matter makes life"—so before combination there was no life, and the combination dismantled, there is no life. So beginning and end no life. Why you are lamenting in the middle? Very good reasoning. Just see. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Māyā-sukhāya, that illusory, illusory happiness. Māyā-sukhāya. And for that reason, they are making huge, gorgeous arrangement and working day and night, which will be zero. It has begun from zero and it will end into zero. In the middle they are busy. Just see. Therefore vimūḍhān.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guru dāsa: They'll have to do something, because...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not permanent. The thing is that our life, if we put up a hotel, Prabhupāda, all of our life members, at least, I know, in fact, will use the hotel. Plus many foreigners will still use. Because we are not, we are not... Our hotel will not simply be for the business foreigners.

Prabhupāda: It is for spiritual culture.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Spiritual culture. Right. So for that purpose it makes no difference the center of the city or elsewhere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...dependent any condition. We are independent. And you are criticizing. Permit has not been obtained. And if you think that there is no possibility of temple being sanctioned, then we start hotel. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: All right, that is already there. But if the sanction is not there, what we will do? Keep the land vacant? (break) That I am trying to get sanction, "Is it all right." If you don't, then hotel.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Otherwise build a hotel in the front and a temple in the rear.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prof. Regamay: But I am struck that, for instance, for us in the West the idea of personal God is strongly rooted in our consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord Jesus Christ, he was Vaiṣṇava. He directly gave you the idea of personal God. The personal God is the origin. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). The... Just like, the same example: the sun god, the sun planet and sunshine, they are one. They are not different. But still, this is impersonal, that is localized, and within the sun globe, there is the sun god. So sun god is the origin of this light. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the origin of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvam (BG 10.8). That's the fact. But people with poor fund of knowledge they cannot understand it. Therefore stop... (break) ...light, that's all. So much. Just like Lord Buddha. He did not explain anything about God. He said, "Just obey me and stop this animal killing." Therefore this much sufficient for him, that's all. The lower class students, one plus two equal to three, two plus two..., that much mathematics, not higher mathematics. Higher mathematics is not possible to understand.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prof. Regamay: Yes, of course.

Prabhupāda: That's it. But there is higher mathematics. Not one plus two or two plus three, no. There is still higher mathematics. So that is not meant for them. That will be explained, explained in the Bhagavad..., ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Those who are expert, or sufficient, insufficient knowledge, they cannot understand the Supreme Absolute. That is also confirmed, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births, when one is actually in full knowledge, he can understand Kṛṣṇa and surrenders unto Him." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). So Vedas and scriptures are there, differently, according to different conditions. Now, what Jesus Christ was teaching the people? You can understand. The first injunction is "Thou shalt not kill." So what class of men they were, just you can understand. Otherwise, why he is first of all telling "Thou shalt not kill"? The Mohammed also said, "From this day, there is no sex with your mother." So just see what class of men. So according to class of men, there should be teaching. Similarly, Buddha also, Lord Buddha said, "No, no, there is no God. Just try to understand me. You obey Me." "Yes, sir." It has to be done like that.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Same body...

Guru-gaurāṅga: But it is just developed, but it is not a different body.

Prabhupāda: No. Developed means different body. Development means different body. They cannot say it is not different body. Then if it is not different, then go to childhood again. That means they're not human being. Human being means with logic. According to their definition, man is rational animal. They're not even rational. Like cats and dogs. There is no rationality. Cats and dogs also they have got rationality. Logic plus authority, Kṛṣṇa says. How you can deny? That means they don't agree with Kṛṣṇa's instruction. You see? This logic, I am not giving this logic. This logic is given by Kṛṣṇa. So unless... The difficulty is that unless they accept the authority, it is very difficult. Logic is there. The authority is there.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They feel, Prabhupāda, that they've been cheated so much by so many philosophies that when we say that the Vedas are written by a person who's not contaminated by the modes of nature, they say, "Well, how is this possible? My experience is that everyone who's written books, they're all materialistic and therefore the philosophy must be like that."

Prabhupāda: But you must be following some philosophy. You're not without philosophy. Even the hippies they're also follow... They've got their own philosophy.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: Yesterday, in your lecture, you mentioned how in this age it's very difficult to remain chaste or free of...

Prabhupāda: Yes, but one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's all right. Teach him Sanskrit and English and let him read our books. Then perfect knowledge. He doesn't require to go to school. And so far mathematics and history concerned, everyone knows. Two plus two equal to four. It doesn't require much education. Even illiterate man who has never gone to school, he can also count. Eh? "How much money you are giving me?" He doesn't want to be cheated. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma... So the fact is God cannot be unknown. If you are actually serious to know God, God can be known. This is no argument, that "God cannot be known."

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That is putting limitation on Kṛṣṇa, to say that you cannot see.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That is putting a limitation on Kṛṣṇa if one says that He cannot be seen.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa... Of course, you cannot challenge Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa, if He likes, He can reveal Himself to you. Therefore, you can know God. Just like Kṛṣṇa reveals. He comes and He... (aside:) Don't... He reveals Himself. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). So when man forgets, so He comes, reveals Himself. And He leaves behind Him the Bhagavad-gītā, knowledge about Him. So where is the difficulty? He comes when you forget Him, and He leaves behind Him the knowledge by which you can understand. Where is the difficulty?

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: It's like saying nothing is true, but then that's a truism.

Prabhupāda: It is darkness.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They want to become minus.

Prabhupāda: But he is plus always. (French) No, if you have no goal... There is example: "Man without any aim is ship without any rudder." What is called? So suppose if the ship goes... (others are talking at the same time) Aeroplane is going with a aim to land in some country, but if he goes on simply without any aim, then there will be disaster.

Karandhara: Well, they have an aim. But the aim is... Because they haven't...

Prabhupāda: That you say they have got; he does not say. You say.

Karandhara: No, but I mean philosophically considering, they have an aim, but it's very obscure. The substance and the significance of that aim is without form or conception.

Prabhupāda: So without aim, what is the use of practice? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says he likes the practice without goal, and he doesn't give any value to the practice because there is goal.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Without goal, practicing something, it is foolishness.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Means calculation. It is going on, regulated way. Just like everyone knows that this month is February. In the month of June the summer will begin. Everyone knows. It is not conclusion; it is experience. There is no need of calculating. So one who has got better experience, he can say like that. Calculation and experience. Just like if somebody says, "Two plus two plus two plus two," somebody says immediately, "Six." And another calculates, "Two plus two plus..., six." So experience and calculation. Lacks experience, he calculates. One who has better experience, he doesn't calculate. One who knows past, present, and future, he doesn't require to make calculation. He knows everything. So God knows past, present, and future, and others who are favored by God, he also knows by the grace of God. Because he hears from God. God knows past, present, and future. Then he simply reproduces God's words, that's all. He doesn't require to calculate. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). The Kṛṣṇa says. Now, we can say what is the age of Brahmā by Kṛṣṇa's words. I don't require to be a very expert astrologer or astronomer. I hear from Kṛṣṇa, and I reproduce. Just like child. Father said, "This is this;" I say, "This is this." That's all. The child is not perfect, but when he says, "Father said this is this," that is perfect. Therefore our process of gathering knowledge from the father—we don't calculate or don't concoct or put theories, no. We don't do that. This is called śruti, śruti-pramāṇa, evidence from śruti.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone can take it. Just like we are giving knowledge of the Bhagavad-gītā. So the Bhagavad-gītā is open for everyone; it is not for me only. It is for you also. That is our movement, that you take the perfect knowledge and be happy and make your life successful.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): So he said one thing is to understand theoretically the knowledge, and the other is to practice it. What is the method for...?

Prabhupāda: Everything is there. All questions solved, economic, social, religious, politics, whatever you are-plus transcendental knowledge.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said it seems to him that this involves a retiring from ordinary life, western life, and even maybe retiring from ordinary eastern life.

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of western life or eastern life. The life... Just like westerners, they eat, and the easterners, they eat. Now the question is how to supply eating. (break)

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that the way we dress, our whole way of life, will make our movement only available to a few people because it requires someone who is prepared to completely change his way of life.

Prabhupāda: Well, when there is question of knowledge, only you will find a few people to get the knowledge. When you put this question, "Find out some learned scholar," generally they will be very... Their number will be very little. But one thing is that if there is one man in real knowledge, he can give the..., distribute the knowledge to many. The example is just like ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ: If you get one moon at night, that is sufficient to dissipate the darkness. And there are millions of stars—it is useless. So it is necessarily not required that everyone should be in perfect knowledge. But if one man is in perfect knowledge, hundreds and thousands can hear from him and they can perfect(?). So it does not depend on the quantity; it depends on the quality.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: People are rascal fools, what is the value of their knowledge? Therefore knowledge, man of knowledge required.

Professor: There are many religions that have no God.

Prabhupāda: Religion cannot be many; religion is one. If anyone says there are many religions, that, he does not know what is religion. Just like science: two plus two is equal to four. It is equally applicable everywhere. You cannot say that "To the Christian two plus two equal to five," the "Christian science" or "Christian mathematics." That you cannot say. Science and mathematics is the same everywhere. If God is one, therefore knowledge of God should be one. There cannot be two.

Professor: No, that's ideally, but is not so.

Prabhupāda: You hear. Because you imperfect, you have so many things. But we hear differently.

Professor: I know that there is only one God.

Prabhupāda: We say that God is one. Whether you accept it or not? Unless God is one, there cannot be God. God cannot be many. God means, in the dictionary it is said, "Supreme Being." The Supreme Being can be one. If there is competition of Supreme Being, then he is not Supreme Being. That is the philosophy. That is the philosophy. Then we have to find out who is that Supreme Being. You cannot say... You find somebody who has got little power. You cannot say, "Now here is God." The supreme power, that is God. Just like money, that is also one of the qualification of God. But money, He has got all the money. You may have got some money, some millions dollars. I may have got little more than that. But nobody can say, "I have got all the money." Or one can say that "I have got all the money," then He is God.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that all religions agree that man can be perfected although he may not be perfect now...

Prabhupāda: No, we are not talking of religion. We are talking of philosophy and science. When we talk about these things that the occupier of the body is within the body, it is neither any Christian knowledge nor Hindu knowledge nor... It is fact. It is a science. The science cannot be "I believe or you believe or you..." That is not science. Science is science. I have already said. Two plus two equal to four is equally applicable everywhere. Similarly, this is knowledge, that the proprietor, or the occupier of the body, is within the body. You can study from any angle of vision. The fact is there.

Professor: Is it transcendent?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that occupier or...

Professor: I don't care who is the owner of my body. I know that it is not going to be eternally mine because this body is going to corrupt, is going to die, and we will have to bury it so that everybody will be happy. But I don't care about that because I...

Prabhupāda: That is animal. That is animal. That is animal conception. That is animal conception, that a dog doesn't care. Similarly, if you don't care, then you are no better than the dog.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says that... It's some story that when Buddha was about to leave his body, he said that... Anyway, the conclusion of the story is that he also considered himself imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the greatness of Buddha. Because his followers were imperfect, he could not say more than what they could understand. Therefore he said that "I am imperfect." His mission was to stop animal killing. But people are very much accustomed to animal killing, so he did not say higher things that they could not understand. For them, if they could stop animal killing, that was perfection. For primary student, if he understands the mathematics, two plus two equal to four, that is his perfection. That does not mean there is no higher mathematics. Give them prasāda. Wait, wait. Bring it. Wait, wait little minute. (break) ...otherwise one cannot understand spiritual matter.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says, "That's another one of my problems."

Prabhupāda: It is not problem; it is practice. If you come here daily, within a week you will learn.

Professor: Every night?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We can give you hundreds of preparations, vegetarian.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): They asked if we're eating anything, so I said we eat before and after all of them.

Prabhupāda: We shall eat also. (break) So I request you to come every Sunday and take feast with us. (break)

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He wants to know, for example, if I eat meat today, if I lose my chance for enlightenment.

Prabhupāda: No, you do not lose. You hear from the enlightened. Then you will be enlightened, and you will automatically give up meat-eating. Therefore our business is to hear from the enlightened. That is the first business. Other things not immediately needed. Even if you cannot give up meat-eating, still, you hear from the enlightened.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that solution we are preaching, we are trying to preach. At least one section of people should know the science of the soul. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like medical necessity is there, does not mean that everyone should become medical man, similarly, the science of soul is necessity; it does not mean that everyone will be the transcendentalist or the scientist about soul. But at least one section of people must be there who knows perfectly well about the science of soul. As much as there is medical man—he knows perfectly well what is physiology, anatomy—there is engineer—he knows how to construct—similarly, a section must be there who knows perfectly well about the science of soul. So as there is need of medical man, engineer or lawyers or other, similarly, there is need of one section of expert who knows the science of soul. The medical man, the engineer, the archeologist or this or that, they are all meant for the body. Similarly, there must be one expert section who are meant for the soul. But all the universities, they have got these departments, medical department, engineering department, law department, but there is no department which is teaching perfectly well about the science of soul.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She said that she has studied... She's not sure because she herself has, for example, studied two years in theology when she was a student.

Prabhupāda: Theology is different. Not very much different, but the modern so-called theology, that is also different speculation. That is not science. There are different theologists. Science cannot be differently opinion. Two plus two is science. It is always four. Nobody can say that "In my opinion it is five," "In my opinion it is three." That is not science; that is speculation.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: They are wasting time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they do not understand what is their position; therefore their teaching is simply waste of time. This is the position: that God is great, and we are all dependent on God. Who will deny this? This is the original principle. Now, in one religious system it may be taught in a little different way. In another religious system it may be... But if there is no such sense that "God is the supreme, and we are all subordinate servant..." This should be the basic idea. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

(SB 1.2.6)

He says that "That is first-class religion which teaches the followers how to become obedient to God." It doesn't matter whether it's Christian religion or Hindu religion or Muslim religion. If they are teaching this fact, that... Actually they are doing that. Muslim they say, allah akbar. Christian people say, "God is great," and the Hindus also say, eko brahma dvitīya nāsti. So you go... Just the same teaching.

Reporter: You're not actually saying that you're the only teacher who can give this teaching, but that any teacher who gives this teaching...

Prabhupāda: No, this is the principle. Just like two plus two equal to four. So anyone who teaches this, he is a teacher. And if a rascal says two plus two equal to three, then he is not a teacher; he is a cheater.

Reporter: So are you saying in fact that...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is... I am saying, what I am saying to you, that "God is great, and everyone is servant." Can you deny this? Can you deny this?

Reporter: No.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: So, if you don't infect a certain disease, then you don't grow it. And if you infect... Therefore you must know or you must know the rules and regulation, how you can save yourself from infection. If you are ignorant and if you infect some disease, epidemic, then you have to suffer. If you remain disinfected, then you don't get inferior body, you get superior body, in other planets. Or you can go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore I said that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for purification so that you may not get infected by the material modes. Therefore we advise our student four regulative principles: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. Plus chanting the holy name of God. Then you remain immune from the infection. And that you will feel practically also, if you adopt the means. Now it is up to us to decide whether I shall continue the life of infection or I shall remain immune from all infection. That is your decision. Better we should remain immune from all kinds of infection, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Jayatīrtha: And they sign also. It's a contract.

Prabhupāda: So this is the first thing, that the GBC maintains here. Immediately the collection is there—fifty percent goes to the BBT account, and fifty percent goes to the printer.

Atreya Ṛṣi: May I recommend, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that one GBC member, plus GBC India be appointed to look very carefully into this whole si...

Prabhupāda: Be appointed. Do this. Be appointed.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. We will.

Prabhupāda: Yes, do this.

Atreya Ṛṣi: To investigate this whole...

Prabhupāda: Why...? Just stop this complaint.

Atreya Ṛṣi: This whole membership program.

Prabhupāda: I am giving you the appointment. Do it.

Haṁsadūta: We can consult with him later.

Jayatīrtha: So we'll discuss it and try to find out the details...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Put it in the agenda, this membership plan, immediately.

Jayatīrtha: ...later on

Prabhupāda: These complaints are not at all good. They have become very serious. Complaint must be stopped. Why they are...? Now print cheap edition here and give them books. Sell also.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That is all right. Anyone who chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, he becomes purified. It doesn't matter what he is.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Many of them are afraid to accept our movement or our philosophy because they feel that their personal religion is threatened, that they'll have to stop being a Christian. So when I earlier mentioned that to start some Christian group, the idea was to have some people who are professing to be Christians, but they are taking the word of Jesus to the deepest point where he says that "There are many things I have not revealed to you, and you will understand them by the grace of the Holy Spirit." So they could have a Christian group where people worshiped Lord Jesus as their spiritual master and simultaneously worshiped Kṛṣṇa. And they could introduce that to develop more knowledge of God one can read the Bhagavad-gītā, one can follow the instruction in the Bible by chanting the names of God, and they would have better access to Christians than those of us who are wearing robes or shaving our heads.

Prajāpati: Better the same people to understand that Śrīla Prabhupāda meets all the qualifications that Jesus Christ met, plus more in he is here, and he is the Christ. Christ is the anointed one of God.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes. So we have to bring them to that understanding, but we have to understand also that they're afraid, that their own faith will be shaken. So if you can give them more knowledge, then they can come to understand that. So if they... You have said that we accept Jesus as our guru. So if someone was practically worshiping, so then they could see. They could not deny. When a devotee says to them, "Yes, I'm accepting Jesus in my heart," They could not deny. If they are, for instance in a person, householder's home-he's worshiping Kṛṣṇa, and he's having a picture of you and a picture of Jesus—then there's no way they can deny that they are not Christians. And they could have access to a lot of the young Christian groups. (break)

Prajāpati: This life... (break) (end)

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Later on. He went to China also.

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But they are uncompromising. The communists, they, they are staunch enemy of the capitalist. Their whole philosophy is against God and against capitalism. So if America becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious and fights, they have got strength plus God's blessing. They'll come out victorious. Fight is going on. We cannot stop. But if the American people take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and fight with the communist, they'll come out victorious. Then the menace of communistic movement will stop. And we want that. We want that these demonic communists should be finished. The Russians, as people, they are not communists. They are not communists. A certain class. Just like in India, a certain class is communist. The mass of people is not communist. They cannot become communist. It is not possible.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There is no question about oṁkāra there. Discuss on the verse. But oṁkāra is also Kṛṣṇa. Praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu (BG 7.8). Kṛṣṇa says, "I am praṇavaḥ." So oṁkāra is not different than Kṛṣṇa. But oṁkāra is pronounced by the impersonalists. That is the difference. Kṛṣṇa, when He says that "I am praṇavaḥ, I am oṁkāra," then where is the objection? They foolishly say that oṁkāra is better than Kṛṣṇa. There is no need of chanting "Kṛṣṇa." That is not good. But so far we are concerned, we say there is no difference between oṁkāra and Kṛṣṇa. Other systems, Christianism or Buddhism or Mohamedanism, they have got one book, Koran, Bible, or... What is the Buddhist scripture? One book. And we have got so many, dealing with the same subject matter. So which is better? Higher mathematics, or two plus two? They should understand the gravity of this movement, my presentation of books. They haven't got so many books. Two thousand years past, the Christian religion has got only one book, Bible. And their only pastime of Christ is crucifixion. There is the cross. Therefore it has become hackneyed. People are no more interested. Neither they can explain very nicely. Neither they follow strictly whatever little information they have.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: In all machines, your bodily machine, my bodily machine, and electric machines and other powered machines—everything is going on. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And in spite of taking so much energy from the sun, it is still full of light and energy. This is one of the creations of the Supreme. Now how much perfect is the Supreme? Its one of the creations, sun, is maintaining the whole universe. And there are many millions of universes, and each of them has got a sun to conduct the business. And all these suns are created by somebody. How much complete He is? You can just imagine. That is God. God is not such a cheap thing. People become God, "I am God." You are a nonsense rascal. What you can do? These are bluff. They do not know what is God. Here is God—complete. Pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇam idaṁ (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). The whole creation is complete, still He is complete. The energy is coming from here, still He is complete. This energy also. A glass of water, I throw the glass, and water again is coming. Again I throw, again it is coming. Incessantly coming, all the energies. This is the idea of God. Pūrṇam idaṁ (Iso Invocation), pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇam idaṁ, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya, pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. One minus one equals one, not zero. One plus one equals one, not two. This is complete. This is the idea of God. Just like the ocean. You take many thousands of buckets of water out, still it is complete. And again you put many buckets, thousands, millions of buckets of water, it is the same depth. This is another example. Material example. This is complete. You take millions of buckets of water from the ocean, you'll find not a drop is lost. And you put millions of buckets of water again, not a drop is increased. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. If you try to take out the whole ocean, still it will remain the ocean. This is the idea of complete.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Amogha: Well, we try, but—we have to try—but we can't tell what's going to happen. So it's happening accidentally when we try. Just like in school we have to try, but maybe we will become promoted.

Prabhupāda: No, if you believe in accident, then you should not endeavor for anything. Nothing happens accidentally.

Hari-śauri: Well, then could not we say that by man's activity, then, things are happening? I had one letter from a person I used to know and...

Prabhupāda: Activity plus sanction of God, two things. There are five causes. The activity, the place, the proportion of energy, and ultimately, sanction by God. Then things happen. Otherwise there is no question of accident. Accident can happen by the will of God. That is also... Behind that accident, there is will of God.

Hari-śauri: So if God is forgotten, then we are simply struggling because...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...we are thinking that we are the controller.

Prabhupāda: We are wrongly directed. (break) ...described as mūḍha, asses, who does not take instruction from God and thinks that things will happen accidentally.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Dr. Copeland: (laughing) It's not the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Now he says, "not the same." You cannot offer reason. You have to take from one source, from the mother. That's all. You cannot take votes, "Can you say who is my father?" He will say this... He'll say, "He is your father." No, it is not the way. The way is to take the information from the right source, not take the votes of rascals and fools. That is not the way. One source. Even from scientific point of view, mathematics, "two plus two equal to four," you have to take from one source. Any mathematician will say like that. Nobody will say, "No, two plus two equal to five." "No, two plus two equal to three." Nobody will say. "Two plus two equal to four," everyone will say. This is not the way of securing knowledge, from here, there... Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not approve. And our Kṛṣṇa, He said, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). That is the recommendation. And because that source is now missing, therefore it is lost. This process of knowledge, that we take knowledge from anyone and everyone, his opinion, what is that?

Not that everyone is in knowledge, but everyone can give his opinion. That is a different thing.

Dr. Copeland: That was my point, only that. Everybody should have an opinion.

Prabhupāda: Everyone has got his opinion, that is different thing. But not that everyone has got the knowledge.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Then where is the way to understand? The conclusion is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ: (CC Madhya 17.186) "Mahājana, great personalities, recognized ācārya, what they say, you follow." That is the best system. So anyone who is speaking about God with authority—take for example Jesus Christ; he is speaking in the western world—you accept him. We Indians, we accept Caitanya or Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. That is the way. That is the way because these ācāryas, these authorities, they are speaking about God. None of them speaking that "You become happy here," no, none of them. Either Christ or Caitanya or Mohammed, nobody has said. So according to the time, circumstances, position, either you follow any one of them as it suits you or, if you can make a comparative study, you follow the best one. So therefore, our conclusion is Kṛṣṇa is the best. He is God. Christ is son of God. So we don't differ son of God and God. That is all right. But when the father is speaking personally, he is speaking what the son has spoken plus something because he is more experienced. So take the father and follow him. That's all. Mohammed says he is servant of God. Christ says he is son of God. And Kṛṣṇa says, "I am God." So where is the difference? The son will say the same thing, the servant will say the same thing, and the father also will say the same thing. So theology means to know God and abide by His order. That is my understanding. And theology does not mean to make research who is God. That is theosophy. So if you are theologicians, then you must know what is God and abide by His order. What do you think, Dr. Judah?

Morning Walk -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Rādhā-vallabha: (break) ...amṛta, that is thirteen more books. Caitanya-caritāmṛta is sixteen volumes altogether. So we have already finished four. So that's twelve plus maybe four to five Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (break) Now that Nitāi and Jagannātha are here, it may be possible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...may be, must be. (laughter)

Nitāi: The only difficulty we face in editing is that sometimes there are problems that come up which we can't figure out ourselves.

Prabhupāda: So I shall remain here.

Nitāi: If you remain here, then we can finish very easily.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break) There was some defect in the roof. They are repairing?

Nitāi: The roof there? Yes, the roof has been fixed.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...ārati time about hundred devotee, outsiders come?

Nitāi: At least.

Prabhupāda: Oh, at least.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Lalitā: I told you that Mr. Mani is Sai Baba's bhakta. So he is harassing, sending a letter and all. It's not especial any, that "Send to the member of ISKCON. They must leave." No. There is no report like that, but they are sending to say that he should learn and come to the Mr. Mani's bhakta of Sai Baba. (Bengali) There is nothing special. So if you are feeling better, then tomorrow or the day after tomorrow... (Bengali) ...can I mention that you must fit to see?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Bengali) You know that? (Bengali) Between twelve to end of the day. (Bengali) Indira Gandhi... (Bengali) ...position plus spiritual knowledge, it will play wonderful in the world. (Bengali) Third-class, fourth-class rogue, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Rājarṣayo. He must be royalty, at the same time great sage, saintly person. Then he will understand. (Bengali)

Lalitā: You must have that quality to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Bengali) Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2).

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: This is open. We can walk. (break) Nirākāra, impersonalist, "God is formless"—that is another way of denying God, gentlemanly way of denying God. "Yes, there is God, but He has no head." (chuckles) What kind of God? "He has no head. He has no tail, He has no leg, He has... He cannot see. He cannot eat." Then what He is? This is another way of denying God. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...reasonable to put forward the argument that if man can do all of these things, then God must be able to do at least those things plus more.

Prabhupāda: No. God has no head. Then what can he do?

Devotee (2): I asked one lady, she said, "God wants to test your faith that... Ultimately He has no form, but He wants to test your faith to see if you..."

Prabhupāda: No, how He'll test? He has no head. How He'll test? Unless one has got head, how he can act with brain? Where you get this idea that one has no head, still he has got brain? Where you get this idea? Hm? The brain substance is within the head. This is our experience. So where do you get this idea that He has no head and still He has got brain? Hm? What is the answer?

Harikeśa: They will say that God is man's conception.

Prabhupāda: That means... You say directly, "There is no God. It is a false conception only." You say directly. That is understandable. But why do you say all these nonsense, that "God is there, but He has no head, He has no tail, He has no hands, He has no...?" What is this? Tell directly that "There is no God." The Buddhists say, "There is no God." That is understandable. Why do you cheat? The Christian also believe like that?

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: No, no. I am not talking of religion. I am talking of science. Religion is a kind of faith. You may be believe or you may not believe.

Indian man (2): No. There is no question of belief. The question is whether, what is the difference between religion and science? If difference is known, then the learned persons(?) can make him right or wrong at that time, but unless and until the demarcation of line between religion and science...

Prabhupāda: Now... Yes, that we can say like this, that "two plus two equal to four"—this is applicable to the Hindus, Muslim, Christian, everyone. This is science.

Professor: Yes. No, no, I understand. I understand. I know where your argument is going to. But any case, let us beg to differ. Because... Let us accept it. I just want to say I agree with you in this sense. I agree with you in this sense, Swami, that if we do not pay attention to the religious side, then we keep the people in darkness. We have to, on the religious side too. (someone entering) Professor Olivier, the rector. (introducing) ...And this is our Swami Bhaktivedanta.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The principal of the university, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Hare Kṛṣṇa. How are you?

Professor: And Mister (indistinct) Singh from Pietermaritzburg, and Professor Maharaj you know. And all the other ladies and gentlemen.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to sit beside Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Professor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you can explain what I was talking.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: What we have to study particularly whether it is standard. Otherwise they may speak so many things, but if they do not know what is the standard... Just like medical science or any science, that is one. It cannot be different because it is spoken by different men. That is not one. That is not science. "Two plus two equal to four"—this is a science that is true everywhere, not that because it is spoken by somebody else it becomes "two plus two equal to five" or "three." No. That is...

Faill: No. Some other people, do you feel, possibly have had the truth as well, have they?

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to say.

Faill: Yes. Unless you studied it in detail.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless I study, it is very difficult to say because there are so many bluffers, so many.

Faill: Just doing it for money.

Prabhupāda: That's all. That's all. It is going on like that. They have no standard method. We are presenting the standard method. This is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. As it is, without any malinterpretation, we are presenting as it is. This is standard.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: These things in different way, that "Come to your pure knowledge and make your plan. Then you will be happy. And if your basic principle is wrong, then whatever plan you make, it is useless."

Reporter: Yes. But, you see, the thing that worries me is that how do people begin to understand that their basic principle might be wrong?

Prabhupāda: Just as one goes to a school and gradually he understands what is one, what is two, what is three, what is "two plus two equal to four," how to place. It is a question of learning, education.

Reporter: Yes, but this doesn't effect the ordinary man in the street, Your Grace.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Reporter: This doesn't effect the masses.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The mass of people, he says it doesn't effect them.

Prabhupāda: Mass of people will follow. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha (BG 3.21). Just like everywhere, in politics there is in one leader and people follow him, so we want first-class leader. Then mass will follow. If the leaders are rascals and fools, then what will be result? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If the leader is blind, how he can help other blind men? He must be open eyes. Then he can lead thousands of blind men—"Come here." And if he is himself blind, then how he can help? That is wanted. One blind man... One open-eyes man is sufficient to lead many thousands of blind men. But if the leaders are also blind, then it is useless. He must be in perfect knowledge. That is wanted. We do not expect that mass of people will understand this philosophy. It is not possible. But at least the leaders, they must know how to lead people—the father, the teachers, the government, like that. Then people will follow.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: As soon as you do in your own way, that is rascaldom.

Dr. Patel: Then we are rascals.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: I am representative to all the rascals of the world here. (laughs) That way, if you say so.

Prabhupāda: Anything which is really scientific, you cannot do in your own way. Two plus two equal to four is applicable everywhere. You cannot say, "Two plus two equal to five. It is my own way." This is rascaldom. Scientific means "two plus two—four." It is accepted everywhere. You cannot say, "Two plus two equal to three. That is my own way."

Dr. Patel: So many phenomenas which are...

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is rascaldom. That is rascaldom.

Dr. Patel: We are not able to explaining...

Prabhupāda: Scientific means there cannot be two opinions. The same, that is scientific.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Indian man (2): (laughter) We want five, correct. Four to make it five.

Prabhupāda: There is a story that a grocer's son was doing business, and when he was given a five-rupees' note, so he was giving four rupees. So the customer said, "Why you are giving me four rupees?" "No, I do not know what is the exchange." "No, it is six rupees." So "No, father will be angry." (laughter) Means he knows perfectly well what is five rupees, but he is innocent when he was giving four rupees. And when the customer wanted six rupees, he, "No, my father will be angry." (break) ...created a havoc by misinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā, all people. According to their wish, "Five-rupees note means four rupees," by imagination. They have created havoc all over the world. Otherwise everything is there. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). If we take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then whole world becomes immediately happy. But they will not take it. They will manufacture their own, two plus two equal to five or three, not exactly the four.

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is trying to exploit you. They freely say, the rickshawalla, that they will charge five hundred rupees per bīghā to others and they will charge four thousand rupees to you. This is going on. Don't allow them to paint unless the rate is settled.

Bhavānanda: We had one day guard on our front gate last week. He worked for three days. His monthly salary was forty rupees plus his meals. So after he was here for three days the rickshawallas, they said, "Why you are working for them for so little money? They are so wealthy." And he left.

Prabhupāda: Who is supervising this department?

Bhavānanda: Tapomaya.

Prabhupāda: Where is Tapomaya? (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is all our, for our sugarcane?

Tapomāyā: Another two.... (break)

Prabhupāda: So we shall pay reasonable price for all the lands.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Make it immediately. Reception.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Nitāicānda is really first class.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nitāicānda is very good.

Prabhupāda: Nitāicānda plus somebody very educated should be there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who do we have like that that speaks Bengali?

Bhavānanda: Subhaga. Oh, they love Subhaga. He preaches in the temple at the book table during the busy hours. So many people buy books, and all interested. He's very...

Prabhupāda: Subhaga. Subhaga make the chief of the reception. And Nitāicānda his assistant, and another, a foreigner.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nitāicānda is in charge of the building.

Bhavānanda: He has so much to do, anyway, Nitāicānda. Subhaga is best.

Prabhupāda: Subhaga and two foreigners.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Marx's failure.

Acyutānanda: ...they cannot take the greed out of man. That was right on the head. That is the exact point, that they are suffering for the greed of the vaiśyas. So they kick out the vaiśyas, but then they are also more greedy.

Prabhupāda: They are greedy.

Acyutānanda: Plus they are low class.

Guru-kṛpā: Plus the worst thing is that they do not accept any form of religion whatsoever.

Acyutānanda: The, the Russian atheist Communism was because the Christian Church used to favor the vaiśyas, so they buried them together. In their hatred for the vaiśyas, the Church also was buried. Very blind, that.

Hari-śauri: Yes, that's always been one of the main criticisms against the Catholic Church. They have so much money and land.

Acyutānanda: He said, "Religion is the opiate of the people." So there was a cartoon that Marx came back in 1976, and they said, "No, opium is the religion of the people."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Acyutānanda: "Now opium is the religion of the people because everyone is taking drugs. You say religion is the opiate. Now opium is the religion." They think there should be no private property. There was... They are discussing this in Indian Parliament now. They should abolish private property and abol... Women should not wear ornaments.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, there are floors, ground floors.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That also has three, if you count the ground floor.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that's three, plus six times longer

Prabhupāda: (break) ...just decorate green leaves and yellow flower. By chance? Rascals say, "By chance." It is coming by chance? Just see. Show me anything within your experience which has come by chance. Anything, whatever you like, show me, come by chance, which has come by chance.

Hṛdayānanda: I can say.... "Yes, I was, became sick by chance."

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: "I became sick by chance."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Then again you are rascal. You infected some disease. Then you became sick. There is no chance.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We'll call it Bhīmasena.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants to become famous, so I said, "Everybody will know that you built a temple there."

Prabhupāda: So it is good idea.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the location is very good. It's right in the center. And they have Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deities there, plus they have Rāma, Sītā, Lakṣmaṇa, Hanumān, which we can also worship.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Only problem is they have Durgā.

Prabhupāda: Durgā, so we can worship, giving Durgā the prasādam of Rāma or Kṛṣṇa. That's it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, something can be worked out.

Prabhupāda: Not directly. His prasāda. If we can worship ordinary human being, why not Durgā? But we give prasādam. We shall give. So don't tell all these things now.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: So this, our science, is a science of māyā. Not the science of spirit. Am I right?

Prabhupāda: No.

Dr. Patel: The science deals with all the earthly things.

Prabhupāda: Even an earthly thing, that does not mean you shall commit mistake. Two plus two equal to four, that is earthly thing. But if you make two plus two equal to five...

Dr. Patel: One.

Prabhupāda: That is not...

Dr. Patel: If you make two plus two is equal to one, then that is spiritual. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No, no. Apart from spiritual, they are talking and again changing. Sometimes they say two plus two equal to four, sometimes they say two plus two equal to five, and then next they say two plus two equal to three. This is going on. So where is you truth? (break) ...the mūḍhas.

Dr. Patel: No, no, no, you are not.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: ...but what is sometimes difficult to understand, where does...

Prabhupāda: Difficult may be.

Brian Singer: ...where does originally the soul come from?

Prabhupāda: In the beginning arithmetic, mathematic, to a child it is difficult. And "One plus two equal to three, two plus two equal to four," in the beginning it may be difficult for a child, but the subject matter is very easy.

Brian Singer: How does a soul...

Prabhupāda: The child can understand, "Now, two finger and two finger, it becomes four finger." In this way we have to learn it. Therefore there are so many books. It is for the human being to learn. But if we simply remain civilized like cats and dog, then what is your advancement of civilization? There is no advancement. If you sit on this chair, and the others, they are sitting on the floor, sitting purpose is served. But if you say, "Sitting on the chair is civilized, and that is uncivilized," that is mental concoction. You have to serve your purpose. If by sitting on the floor you can understand what you are, that is civilization. And without understanding yourself, if you waste your time for manufacturing a chair, that is cats' and dogs' civilization. So that is going on. They are busy in manufacturing chairs, how to sit comfortably, without any knowledge that what is the value of life and what is life. This is going on. They are thinking that constructing big, big skyscraper building and motorcars and high roads and so many, so many, unnecessary things, that is advancement of civilization. No. Advancement of civilization is there when you know what you are. That is advancement of.... You can.... There is no prohibition. The materialistic way of civilization, constructing big, big house, there is no.... You don't stop it, but if you forget yourself—you do not know what you are—then it is wasting time because the human life is specially meant for understanding "What I am?" The cats and dogs, they cannot do. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to enlighten people actually what he is, what is the aim of life and how his life will be successful, how at the present moment he is living, how he is spoiling his valuable life. These are the subject matter dealt in these books.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: It's just different method of teaching.

Prabhupāda: No method. Same method. But if you say it, a different method, then we don't mind, but this is the subject matter of study. "Two plus two" is taught by the Christian and the Muslim, the Hindu. "Two plus two equal to four." There is no method of studying. The studying is the same. But if you take that "I'll read 'two plus two' in a Christian school," that is your choice. That's another thing. But wherever you go, "Two plus two equal to four," it is same. You call it Christian or Hindu or Muslim. That's your whims. Science is science. So we are preaching that "You are not this body; you are different from body." So it is equally necessary for the Christian, for the Hindu, for the Australian, for the American, for the African, everyone.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Practice is no question. We have to talk with science. Practice, you have practiced something which is against religion. That should not be taken.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's become the fashion of world...

Prabhupāda: Fashion? Your fashion, kick on the face! No fashion! (devotees laugh) It is a science. It is not the question of fashion, a false faith, belief. These are all rascals. Science is science. Two plus two equal to four. That's all. There is no question of "I have no faith in this. I say five!" That will not be accepted. Two plus two equal to four. It is neither five nor three. If that truth is there, then there is faith. "God is this, and sometimes God is this"—that is no understanding of God. You must have clear understanding of God.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the quality of a person who is actually faithful?

Prabhupāda: He's accepting eagerly Bhagavad-gītā if he's really follower of God. Because there is nothing extraordinary in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is the words actually for God to speak. You may call Kṛṣṇa or otherwise, but.... Just like sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). This can be said by God only. Otherwise who can say that "You give up everything; surrender unto Me"? It can be said by God only. Either you talk of Hindu or Muslim, but ask one that "If God says, 'You surrender unto...,' will you refuse?" Let him become Muslim or Christian. So nobody can refuse the order of God. That is faithfulness.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Young, they are receptive, and another side is that in the Western countries, your younger generation, they have seen that their father and grandfather are not happy. Is it not a fact? So they are trying to find out something where they will find happiness. As such, they go to so many swamis and yogis who come from India. But there also they are frustrated. But here they are finding the real substance. That you can ask any one of them, they will explain how they have come.

Kathy Kerr: Can you, em, do any of you (indistinct).

Jayādvaita: I can show you downstairs in our magazine, there's an article about our program of visiting India. We have very beautiful centers there. India..., it's not that because we're going to India, therefore it's an Indian idea. Science, it's not "Two plus two" is Indian or American. It's everywhere.

Kathy Kerr: I've asked everything I've been able to think of. Thank you very much for the interview.

Prabhupāda: Very good. You have given prasāda?

Jayādvaita: Yes, we have some downstairs.

Hari-śauri: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So, for example, if one is learning how to count or how to read...

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has to learn it from the teacher. Two plus two equal to four. One, two, three, four, like that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But actually one can understand the Absolute Truth without such knowledge.

Prabhupāda: There is no such man. It is a nonsense, another non...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Without being able to count?

Prabhupāda: Nobody can count unless he learns it from the teacher.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, but...

Prabhupāda: So therefore for knowledge, you have to go to a proficient man or person, that is knowledge. Why do you go to a school and college? Be in knowledge at home. If you want to steal even, you have to learn it from a professional thief, how to cheat, how to steal. That is also another kind of knowledge. You cannot steal unless you become expert by learning how to steal from an expert thief. So knowledge means you have to receive it from higher authority. That is knowledge.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is perplexed conditioned. In this material world, you cannot find anyone who is not perplexed. Is there anyone who is not perplexed? Can anyone say that "I am not perplexed"? (laughs) Everyone is. Therefore everyone requires guru. But a guru knows. Guru means like Kṛṣṇa or His representative. Yes?

Guest (4): Sir, you explained that Paramātmā is within everyone, every individual, human and animal alike, and you also explained that Paramātmā is within every atom, too, within the universe. Does that means that I have one Paramātmā plus about six trillion other Paramātmās in the....

Prabhupāda: No, Paramātmā is the same. Paramātmā is the same. Not the Paramātmā within yourself is different from the Paramātmā within myself. The Paramātmā is the same. Just like the sun. If you put here millions of pots with water, in each pot you'll find the sun. But the sun is one. When the sun is on the head, you just phone your friend five hundred miles or five thousand miles away, "Can you tell me where is the sun?" He will say "It is on my head." How it is possible? Everyone will say, "Now the sun is on my head." That is Paramātmā. He is one, but everyone will say "He's within me, over my head." That is Paramātmā. Paramātmā is one, but He is everywhere. That is Paramātmā. And I am ātmā, I am only here, that's all. That is the difference. He's not different. Because He is within the core of the heart of a dog and within the core of the heart of a human being, He is different? No. He is the same. Therefore, paṇḍitāḥ samaḥ darśinaḥ.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Yadubara: That means the distance, then, from the earth?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yadubara: Sun is first.

Prabhupāda: According to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the moon is situated 1,600,000 miles away up to the sun. Upper. So according to their calculation, 93,000,000 miles, sun is situated from the earth. And if the moon is plus 1,600,000 then it becomes 15,000,000 miles. So 15,000,000 miles it takes about...

Hari-śauri: Ninety-five million.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Hari-śauri: Ninety-five million.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That. Ninety five millions. It takes at least seven...

Hari-śauri: Seven months.

Prabhupāda: Seven months, to the speed they are going, 18,000 miles per hour. So how they have gone in four days?

Yadubara: According to...

Prabhupāda: They have brought some sand. Such a brilliant planet which is illuminating the whole universe and they brought sand. All bluff.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: Originally it is goodness. Very... Pure goodness, you say. Everything in the beginning is...

Prabhupāda: I give the example, just like water falling from the sky. It is crystal clear, distilled water. But as soon as touches the earth, it becomes muddy. But that muddiness can be filtered.

Rūpānuga: Plus muddiness is the character of the mud, not the consciousness. And it can be cleansed, filtered out.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that filtering process is devotional service. So unless the water is different from the precipitated matter, how it can be filtered?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So far we are concerned, prakṛti is clear, but the source of prakṛti is little, ah, so we try to... We want to show this, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in our chapter on some sort of creation, creation of material manifestation.

Prabhupāda: You'll get from Second Canto.

Rūpānuga: Second Canto. That's that "First Step in Self-Realization" chapter?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Fifth chapter, sixth chapter, two chapters.

Prabhupāda: Atra sargo visargaś ca, that verse, Second Canto, you find out.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Rūpānuga: Treated nicely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not that because he is born of a dāsī no care should be taken. No, equal. But he cannot inherit the throne, that's all. There was no question. Even Muhammadans, they used to marry more than one wife. Two hundred years ago, one Muslim Nawab of Lucknow, Wazel Dusayet(?), he had hundred and sixty wives. The palaces are still there, Lucknow, hundred and sixty palaces. Why the Nawab? Our Kṛṣṇa, not hundred sixty but another zero, another, hundred sixty thousand, two zeros. Hundred sixty plus two zeros. They were not neglected. But He is God, He expanded Himself also, sixteen thousand forms, so that no wife would feel separation. So if one husband can maintain properly more than one wife, he's allowed. But the wife must be taken care of properly. Not that because I have got more than one wife, one is neglected, one is... No. She must be taken care of.

Vṛṣākapi: We were talking the other day, not in our society though.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Vṛṣākapi: Not in the ISKCON society, though.

Prabhupāda: In the Kali-yuga one cannot maintain even one wife, what to speak of more than one. They are afraid to marry one wife. I first heard this, one elderly lady in New York. At that time, I was newcomer. I asked her, "Why don't you get your son married?" "Yes, he can be married, provided he can maintain wife," she said. So these things were unknown to us. In India, whether he'll be able to maintain... Just like I was married when I was third-year student. Where is the income? There is no income, but still I was married.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is have already explained, that you serve God in any position, but if you want to know about God more, then you have to come here. Now ask any Christian what is God, who is God, what is His form, what He is doing. Can he answer? Nobody can answer. He knows God is great. How great He is, who is that God, they cannot answer. To some extent it is all right, but if you want to know full extent, then you have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Two plus two is equal to four" is mathematics, but if you want to know higher mathematics, you have to go some higher college. "Two plus two" is also mathematics, is it not? Everyone knows two plus two equal to four. So when you go to higher university, that "two plus two" does not change, but you know more about it. Because one has gone to higher university, the previous education, "two plus two," has changed, it is not that. But as a Christian you understand God is great, "two plus two," but how He is great, that you have to learn in the Vedas. That is real education. Because you do not know how He is great, therefore you do so many sinful activities. Otherwise, how it is possible to maintain slaughterhouse? Christian doctrine says "Thou shall not kill." But he does not understand; therefore his business has become to kill only. This is the defect. Why you are disobeying the orders of Christ, "Thou shall not kill"? Because you do not understand him properly.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So, we are going tomorrow. You are also coming?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Rūpānuga, we should also... What we've been thinking was at the beginning we would try to finish this book as part of the Institute's program, and plus that journal we discussed yesterday with Ravīndra Svarūpa as the, er... And that will be our initial phase, and our feeling is that, now, this Institute, at the beginning, some sort of research institute that we are doing right now, writing something, collecting some information from other sources. So some sort of... Looks to me like a research type... It is research oriented.

Rūpānuga: Until we finish the book and are able to establish a teaching situation. Right now our men are really concerned with finishing so we have some good propaganda.

Prabhupāda: No, one thing is, research means again that mental speculation.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But our research is different though.

Prabhupāda: So they have... People will understand that it is another type of mental speculation. But ours is not that. We take it as Absolute Truth. So how to convince them?

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: They have given all orders?

Devotee (5): Yes, most of them gave orders to our... Even unlike... Some like Unites States some place, they would order all seventeen Caitanya-caritāmṛtas, and all the volumes of Bhāgavatam out and place an order for the rest to come, plus other books. And we lowered the price to about 45 rupees which was, which was right where they can afford to pay for the volumes (indistinct) take them.

Prabhupāda: What is the usual price?

Devotee (5): $7.95 which would be like too many, eighty rupees or something like that. It would be very expensive for India for one volume.

Prabhupāda: So you have reduced the price?

Devotee (5): To forty-five rupees. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa made it very, very reasonable for them that they can partake.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. They are taking the book. That is wanted. We don't want much profit.

Devotee (5): Many, many reviewers also from those big Sanskrits, the largest in the world (indistinct) professors here they also read the reviews and very much appreciate the books. All of the different parts we visited, from north to south, east to west.

Prabhupāda: They're welcome. That's fine. So make world party.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: What do you mean?

Hari-śauri: Are we surprised at the way the movement has expanded and prospered in just a few short years.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not surprising, it is natural. If you do, just like if you do business in proper way there will be profit. Similarly, as it is enjoined in this book of knowledge, if you do like that it will expand, it will prosper. Two plus two equal to four. Mathematical calculation. If you make two plus two, it will become four. It will neither become three nor five. So here it is said, you have read the, that "One who is engaged twenty-four hours in My service, so I, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22), I supply whatever he requires and I protect whatever he has got." So if you actually serve Kṛṣṇa, then everything you want, it will come.

Rāmeśvara: Do you have any questions about our festival coming up this Sunday? You know we're marching down Fifth Avenue.

Interviewer: Are you going to march?

Rāmeśvara: He asks if you are going to participate in the Ratha-yātrā Parade.

Hari-śauri: This is the parade that it's based on.

Rāmeśvara: This is a photograph of what takes place in India every year. It's a traditional festival in India, we are bringing it to New York. We've got our permits and everything.

Prabhupāda: We have already got in San Francisco, in Chicago...

Rāmeśvara: Philadelphia.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, no, that ignorance is there both in Western and Eastern. It is the ignorance of the human society.

Interviewer: But do you think it's unusual, the fact that it's an Eastern, mysterious Eastern religion has an appeal to American young people.

Prabhupāda: Why do you bring Eastern religion Western religion? It is a science. Two plus two is equally important both in the East and the West.

Interviewer: Well, it originated in the East and it's not very, it hasn't been customary in the West.

Prabhupāda: That originated... Just like the sun rises in India first. That does not mean the sun in America and the sun in India is different. The sun is the same sun. It may appear first in the Eastern side but that sun does not belong either to the East or the West. Sun is sun.

Interviewer: Well do you think that the Eastern sun, meaning Hare Kṛṣṇa, is appropriate in a culture that has a different religion traditionally?

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is ignorance. Why do you say...?

Interviewer: The Jewish, Biblical Christian tradition is traditional in the West, the Hindu tradition...

Prabhupāda: I never said that Jewish or Christian or Hindu or Muslim.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is ignorance, that is ignorance.

Interviewer: That is ignorance.

Prabhupāda: We have got students from every community. From Jewish community, from Christian community, from Muhammadan community, from Buddhist community, from Hindu community, everywhere. Because the knowledge is for everyone. It doesn't matter whether he's Jewish, Christian or... "Two plus two equal to four" is good for everyone. It is not that "two plus two" is good for the Christians, not for the Jews. Gold is gold.

Interviewer: I didn't get that.

Bali-mardana: The principle of, say, "two plus two equals four," is the same for a person whether he's Christian, Jewish, Muhammadan or whatever. Just as the same way that gold is gold. Gold always has it's value in any situation.

Prabhupāda: You cannot say because gold is in the hand of a Muhammadan it is Muhammadan gold, or if it is in the hand of a Christian it is Christian gold. Gold is gold.

Interviewer: Right.

Prabhupāda: In anyone's hand. You cannot designate it.

Interviewer: Who's got the gold?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Everyone has got the gold.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: What is the basic? What you will know by that? Biology is going on, whether you study or not study. You are eating, it is transforming into blood, everyone knows. And how he's transforming into blood? What is the use?

Jyotirmāyī: You were saying they should learn geography and history, just for general knowledge.

Prabhupāda: That is because you have to go from America to India. You must know. (laughter) You have to calculate two plus two equal to four, a little mathematics. But this biology and this "logy," they are useless. There is no necessity. What you'll gain by understanding biology? Even one who knows biology, the medical man, he gives a tablet, "Perhaps it may help you." "Perhaps." He's not sure. So what is the use? First of all, he'll take one ounce of blood from you, and they send, this station, that station, now making a chart, then he'll give you a tablet, "Perhaps it may help." This is going on. Even the biggest pathologist, medical man, cannot guarantee that whatever medicine... (break)

Yogeśvara: ...some group doctors? Some portion of the devotees medical knowledge?

Prabhupāda: There is no harm, but when medical men are available by paying something, why should you waste your time? There are so many things we purchase, you pay for them. Not that we have to learn everything. So many things we have to do. Does it mean that you have to learn everything?

Hari-śauri: There's lots of doctors, but there's no brāhmaṇas, devotees.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhūgarbha: He asks, What about the opposite, people becoming devotees without knowing anything? He asking...

Prabhupāda: No, devotee cannot be without knowing anything. A devotee means, a devotee means he knows everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. This is Vedic injunction. One who knows the Absolute, he knows everything.

Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda? That verse, does that mean that one who is neophyte...

Prabhupāda: Neophyte is neophyte. Why do you bring him to become a devotee? A devotee is different. A "one plus one equal to two," he's not mathematician. He's learning. There is hope one day he'll be a big mathematician. There are three stages, kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī, uttama-adhikārī. So when you speak of devotee, that is this uttama-adhikārī. So he knows everything. Rather, the so-called jñānī, he does not know. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa. The so-called jñānī, he does not know what is Personality of Godhead. He's impersonalist. Therefore he is still unaware of the Absolute Truth. Therefore he's not jñānī. His jñāna, his knowledge, is lacking.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Little bit of army, little bit of māyā.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: A little bit of army took him, plus a little bit of māyā. He's a very sincere, nice boy.

Prabhupāda: So. Let him go on chanting. Chanting cannot be checked, any position. So what is your inquiry further?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: What is your further inquiry?

Prabhupāda: Our latest Vṛndāvana report is very encouraging. He has used the word "jam-packed," always people. They are selling good number of magazines, books, prasādam. Guesthouse is also filled up. Now we have festival going on nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is your further inquiry?

Shahrezad(?): I'm thinking to ask a question. (long pause) (break)

Ātreya Ṛṣi: There have been very few of them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You find out this verse: manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye.

Arrival Conversation -- August 13, 1976, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: Yes, big ones. They say a million people died in the last one.

Prabhupāda: You have got the keys for that?

Hari-śauri: I think they're... That last set that I gave you, Śrīla Prabhupāda? These, yes.

Prabhupāda: Print books many, as good as possible. Let us do our duty.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have three small Hindi books in production, plus as I said, Hindi Back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: This silver loṭā has become very black. You can get it polished.

Prabhupāda: See if there is...

Hari-śauri: If there's?

Prabhupāda: If there is worms.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. He has to, he has to. Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. So we are now put into the material prakṛti, and prakṛti-jān guṇān, we have to accept another body.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

(BG 3.27)

This is the rascaldom. Jaya. Prasādam, you have got? What is the report?

Yaśomatīnandana: We are publishing monthly magazine every month now, one is coming out in a few days for Janmāṣṭamī. We have changed new house, very good house.

Prabhupāda: What is the rent?

Yaśomatīnandana: Land also...

Prabhupāda: No, no, rent.

Yaśomatīnandana: Rent is thousand rupees. One thousand rupees, plus tax for government.

Prabhupāda: Plus twelve hundred?

Yaśomatīnandana: No, plus two hundred tax. They are life members from Ahmedabad. They came to see Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you. So give them place to stay. (end)

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Saurabha: That is... That is... Like those things come out here. That is all connected with the room. So your bathroom, you have one toilet here and one shower here, each side.

Prabhupāda: That's good.

Saurabha: This is very nice, quite big. Then on the roof you have practically the whole roof plus a room in the middle. Here is a room on the roof, the next slide, room here, and then you have just a nice terrace and very nice breeze.

Prabhupāda: All sides open.

Saurabha: Yes this is open. Well, we have arches here, just arches. Now we are finishing for the temple the second floor slab. That should be finished at the end of the month, and then one more month, the main slab of the darśana-maṇḍapa, and then we start towers, which we already started now precasting. We have rings. We make rings which we put up later, one by one.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is by ring.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But still husk is not rice. You cannot say husk is rice.

Pradyumna: He says the husk... He says "Rice is the equivalent of God in man while the husk can be compared to desire which reduces God to man."

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Pradyumna: Therefore my desire is life plus desire equals man. Life minus desire equals God."

Prabhupāda: (dictating:) You are desiring to become God. There cannot be no desire. But you're unceremoniously desiring to become God. Although there is no proof in the śāstras. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is accepted that the living entities are sparks of..., part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa.

Pradyumna: "In the Bhagavad-gītā it is accepted that the living entities..."

Prabhupāda: Are part and parcel of God. But part is never equal to the whole. (break)

Pradyumna: "So you can claim as a spark of God, as every living entity can claim but you cannot claim as the..."

Prabhupāda: The Supreme Person with full power. That is misleading. You can show a little magic, as other magicians also can show.

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Daughter or granddaughter.

Akṣayānanda: Something like that, yes. He was talking about...

Prabhupāda: When I first came in Vṛndāvana I stayed in the Keśī-ghāṭa. That is very palatial building. My room was as big as this. Yes, as big. Plus one side room, plus one entrance room. I was paying fifteen rupees. And I could see whole Vṛndāvana, Yamunā, from the top my house. It is very nice, very palatial.

Hari-śauri: That's in the big building on the, right on the side of the ghāṭa?

Prabhupāda: Which gate?

Hari-śauri: That's in the big building right on the side of Keśī-ghāṭa?

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: No?

Prabhupāda: No. There is a big building, Bharat Maharaja, yes, Bharatpur, just by the side of that house. It is in the corner. The door is in the corner. The road is going this way in the corner. It is stone. Face is stone. Good building, but... (break) ...in thought of Kṛṣṇa, outside cleaning by oil and soap. Soap. Bāhyābhyantara-śuciḥ. This is quite comfortable, not very chilly, within this room.

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So we'll have some neckbeads they'll take with a small statue, Deity, pendant of Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: So then there is one artist. He has come to paint pictures. Explain. He will give you. Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, yes, very good.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And plus he can do that for the new brochure also. We can have like a necklace with a pendant of Viṣṇu, four-handed, to meditate.

Hari-śauri: We have a proper shelf there which will supply hari-nāma cādara, beads, beadbag, everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. Take this idea. Note down. First of all make this brochure.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That brochure which I made on Vṛndāvana, just one page, I'm taking up, Vṛndāvana and other temple pictures, and putting in a section on yoga.

Prabhupāda: So see how you have done.

Hari-śauri: If we don't have our own shop there which sells everything, then they'll just go down Loi Bazaar and buy it.

Prabhupāda: No, we have our own shop and...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we are having our own shop now in the gurukula. We are having it before the festival. We are having that before the festival.

Hari-śauri: It should be open for this course.

Prabhupāda: Another thing, that... I don't think they are very serious, that... They have paid that 250 rupees rate? This bank? They wrote they are going to pay.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No local man is coming?

Trivikrama: Well, one local American, he's helping. But no Chinese. They're not interested. We tried to present a nice program. We did kīrtanas. I'm a little disappointed, but... But still, this program can go on. We can sell books. But one thing...

Prabhupāda: No, selling books is our propaganda. That is very good program.

Trivikrama: One thing... As far as being... We're shorthanded because I'm going to be coming back to India. I was thinking that because you instructed Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami to help me by sending two men... But actually he never really sent two men.

Prabhupāda: If there is no men, how can he do?

Trivikrama: But there's so many men now in New York. Now it's January. There's no more big book distribution, plus they're recruiting so many men.

Prabhupāda: So why they are not? It is simply lack of management. If there is no sufficient work, some men can go. Write. He is also GBC. Men should be equally distributed.

Devotees: Jaya. (offer obeisances) (end)

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But our duty is to try. (break)

Devotee (1): ...according to an official in the Central Railway.

Prabhupāda: So how many tickets we have got?

Devotee (1): We've got twenty tickets for the devotees in second-class, plus two for yourself and Hari-śauri in first-class.

Mr. Gupta: Well it's not the consideration of tickets, it's just on the midnight of 31st and 1st. When I was very disturbed, I just got into the train for a drive, being a railway man, and there was just some intuition that I came here and I had your darśana.

Prabhupāda: When you came?

Mr. Gupta: On the 3lst and lst. On the lst morning. And from that I... As happens to be, I've been coming every day.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Mr. Gupta: On the 2nd you were kind enough to autograph the Gītā...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes, I remember.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Again why you are bringing "secular India"? This is a science. Science, science, scientific knowledge—so does it mean the secular India, they should stop scientific education?

Guest (1): No religion can be backed up like that.

Prabhupāda: No, why you bring religion at all? It is science. Religion is a kind of faith. But science is not faith. You may have faith or may not have faith. Science, "Two plus two equal to four," everywhere. Why they forget this? This is a science, vijñāna. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānaṁ idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ (BG 7.2). It is vijñāna. And they are interpreting in different way, "Two plus two equal five." Big, big men, they are doing that. Two plus two equal five because somebody, some big man has said? This is going on. Somebody said, "Two plus two equal to three"; somebody says "Two plus two equal five." "In my opinion it is five." And somebody: "In my opinion it is three." What is this nonsense? This is going on. And they are big men. They are leaders, mūḍha. This is the position of India.

D. D. Desai: But Swamiji, you are just... (Hindi) on Hindu...

Prabhupāda: I'm not (Hindi). My jñāna is Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. Neither (Hindi). But what Kṛṣṇa says, I accept. That's all. They say, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful." I do not know what is magic, wonderful. But one thing wonderful I have done, that I have not adulterated on the words of Kṛṣṇa. That I have not. And therefore the effect is very good. I have not adulterated. I don't say, "Two plus two equal to five" or "three." I say "Four." Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No one will. It is not at all difficult. The principles, the regulation we have started, it will automatically bring them to that stage.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When one chants sincerely and attends all the temple programs, then automatically one...

Prabhupāda: (sharp rapping sound: light switch flicking on and off) No electricity. Stop this fan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Stop the fan? Śrīla Prabhupāda, I may not be going to the Kumbhamela. I'm going to stay in Bombay and later on go to Delhi and Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There is Gurudāsa and there others.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Because there's lot of work to do, and I'm printing lot of books now, so...

Prabhupāda: No, you stay here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Plus there's lot of income tax. The income tax is so bad, the government laws, that ISKCON cannot even sell books. Even if we sell books we are considered to be a profit-making organization. We can give books away for a donation but not sell it. They are such... Tomorrow our auditor is coming on site. He's coming with two, one income tax lawyer, who is our new lawyer now. Very nice man.

Prabhupāda: So you want to keep there? (end)

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All right. Now if he recommends, I'll give.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And since the Vṛndāvana temple opened, we did about three, four lakhs' worth of construction, without taking one penny from you.

Prabhupāda: I am giving one lakh rupees per month.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. That is for Gurukula. Plus we contributed about three lakhs to Gurukula's construction. Two lakhs.

Prabhupāda: Now we are paying two lakhs per month.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the initial stages the Gurukula construction was done from the money that we had collected in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: No, from the beginning I am paying.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: About two lakhs went out of Vṛndāvana temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So that day is nice?

Pradyumna: February 2nd. It is Wednesday, Bhudvar. There is one good... (?)

Prabhupāda: So in Orissa you'll be also there?

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: There are approximately eight thousand Hindus living in Los Angeles, and we have rented one auditorium that seats six thousand people. So if they only sell two thousand seats, it does not cost any money. It covers all the expenses. Anything over two thousand seats is profit for ISKCON.

Prabhupāda: So how many Indians are there?

Rāmeśvara: Altogether in Los Angeles, eight thousand. Plus Indians from San Francisco will come to this concert because she is very popular. Gopāla sent one devotee, Jagat-puruṣa, to manage the ticket selling.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is expert.

Rāmeśvara: And we are trying to print one souvenir book also and take advertisements from local stores and shops. In this way we will also make money.

Prabhupāda: So you have to go back? (break)

Rāmeśvara: They want me to be there to make sure the concert is a success. And Satsvarūpa Mahārāja is coming for Kumbha Mela. So he's planning to stay on with you for the whole month of February and March as secretary.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And you are going to Vṛndāvana?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's going to Kumbha Mela first.

Jagadīśa: ...has business there to be...

Prabhupāda: You are not attending Kumbha Mela. You are going to Delhi from here.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Believe or not believe, that is another thing. But if you want to live worthy, then you have to study Bhagavad-gītā. You believe... Just like somebody believes or not believes in dehāntara, but nature's course will go on. Young man thinks "I'll remain young. I shall not become old man." He may believe like that, but he has to become old man. That is nature's law. So there is no question of "believe" or "not believe." If you believe, then you are benefited; if you don't believe, you go to hell. It is not the question of belief. I was speaking in South Africa in a university. So one gentleman, Arya-samāji said... When I was explaining tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, so he objected that "Why you bring Hindu belief?" "And, nonsense, it is Hindu belief?" It is said that kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: one boy is becoming young man. Is this for Hindu? It is not for the Muslim? And he said "Hindu belief." Such a fool he is. He said, "It is Hindu belief." Kṛṣṇa is giving this example. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13). Kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. So does it mean that Hindus only from kaumāra become yuvaka, and from yuvaka to old man, and the Muslims, they do not? It is science! You believe or not believe. If you don't take the fact, then your life is missing. What is the question? Two plus two equal to four—it is not Hindu calculation, Muslim calculation or Christian calculation. You cannot say that "No, according to our Muslim calculation, two plus two equal to five." Two plus two is always four, either for a Hindu or Muslim or Christian. So whatever is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is for understanding of the human society. Why do you take: "It is Hindu belief. It is Indian belief"? It is science. That is our misfortune, that a science we are accepting as a kind of belief, faith. And that we are neglecting. That is our misfortune.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not only that, if he makes bill for the paper, then he has to pay sales tax.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Also the income tax will say, "Your sales were so high," so he doesn't want the paper account to come under that. So what I'm saying, Śrīla Prabhupāda... The demand for our books is there. And like BBT Los Angeles sells a Bhāgavatam to the temples for $3.50, and we are selling it for $1.45. And that includes our profit already. Our real cost is 90 cents, 95 cents. So we can expand our printing capacity here. As I discussed with you last week, there's one machine from England that Usa Printers wants to import. And if we give him a loan... It will be his machine. He'll give us documents, and he'll pay back interest every month. In two years he'll pay back the whole money plus interest, which will be higher than what the bank gives us.

Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

Rāmeśvara: What is the bank rate?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The bank rate's about 12%. We'll do higher than the bank rate.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Bank rate is not less than 16%.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So do it immediately.

Rāmeśvara: This is a good opportunity for us to have a very solid relationship with the printer.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That's nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also if we can give these Bhāgavatams for a dollar to America, they can import it from here also, and as I told Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, we can give a plastic cover plus two or three ribbons. Insured, it will cost nothing extra.

Prabhupāda: You decide for (indistinct) why not.

Rāmeśvara: We're going to discuss it at the Māyāpur festival with Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Swami, because he's in charge of distribution.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: He has to approve the quality.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The quality's only a little inferior.

Prabhupāda: I don't think India can make such quality.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Typeset is Delhi good, but offset-Bombay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So what I've told them, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is they can get the composing done in Bengal, Calcutta, then send it to me, like I get the Hindi composing done in Vṛndāvana and mail it to Bombay for printing. So it is cheaper and good quality, plus we have the whole department set up. One boy, Pippalai, he just takes care of technical aspects. And we have a shipping department all set up now. Two boys work just on the shipping.

Prabhupāda: So supply department keep in one place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And we have very good...

Prabhupāda: In other places it is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't have the men, and we have good...

Prabhupāda: No. They supply all supplies. The orders should be supplied from one place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We're getting up to two months' credit on printing books. Everything is nicely set up.

Prabhupāda: But keep your credit.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: In America everything is based on the tongue.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere. Taste can be very nice, sweetened. There is salt, and you can add honey also. Naturally salty and sweet plus some ingredients like peppermint, wintergreen, camphor, it will make tasty. These ingredients are very nice. We can... Some ordinary medicament. That skin disease ointment, some cough mixture. I have got experience in all these things. If you want to introduce this kind of business, tidbit...(?) The gṛhasthas can do the business.

Rāmeśvara: Gṛhasthas. I also want to start this record...

Prabhupāda: You cannot expect everyone to be brahminical qualification. We are neither brāhmaṇa nor... We do not belong to any sect, but Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, we can do anything. That, because we are doing some business, we are not vaiśyas. Just like Nanda Mahārāja was agriculturist. So that does not mean he was a Vaiṣṇava. But professionally, externally, he looked like a vaiśya.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Which movie?

Rāmeśvara: The one I'm thinking of having Yadubara make, shooting in India professors' and scientists' testimony plus Vaiṣṇava festivals and Vaiṣṇava temples.

Prabhupāda: No, that... And you'll see Tirupati, how they are standing for hours together.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, like that. And also, if the movie is made very well, then we can make an excerpt...

Prabhupāda: How they are contributing their hard-earned money, how it is, the are collecting money, huge amount.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, they'll interview very wealthy people also. Good idea.

Prabhupāda: They're not all wealthy. Wealthies are giving more, and poor men also give.

Rāmeśvara: But in America, if they see that a wealthy man is also worshiping Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation on 1976 Book Scores -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Bhagavad-gītā gives basic knowledge.

Rāmeśvara: Number two was Los Angeles with $87,000. Number three was Berkeley with $85,000. Number four was San Diego, $62,000. Caracas, 60,000, Brazil and England tied-$48,000. Germany 33,000; Denver 32,000; and Pittsburgh 30,000. And the medium temples weren't so outstanding, but the small temple, Houston, little Houston, $25,000. They only have about twelve men. I cannot understand how hard they worked to do this, very hard. Plus it shows Gurukṛpa's donation, ISKCON food relief donation. Then the outstanding zones for the month. Number one is Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, with $200,000. Number two was my zone. Actually it's your zone, but you've made me manage it a little. $182,000, very close to beating him. (Prabhupāda chuckles) Actually I have noticed that if the West Coast was not divided this year into two zones... Formerly it was just one zone. All Berkeley, it was one zone. Now it is two zones. So I noticed that if it had not been divided, then every month the West Coast would have been number one.

Prabhupāda: Combined together.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Then Hṛdayānanda was number three with $155,000. That is very good for Latin America.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Apart from that, you defend your position like this.

Hari-śauri: It's actually a religious issue, but they're trying to make it out something else to distract because they can't defeat us on a religious point.

Prabhupāda: No. Our religion is not faith, our religion. It is on science. So we have got more defense. We don't accept such religion—"Two plus two equal to five." It is science—"Two plus two equal to four." It cannot be three, cannot be five. This is our religion.

Satsvarūpa: Since most of our presentation is done by lawyer, how can this practically be brought about that he introduces the books as our main defense? How can he present the books, a lawyer, if there's not a preacher?

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of preaching. The lawyer can present that "My client's defense statement is here in these books." "Defense statement." Don't say, "the books." "Defense statements are there."

Hari-śauri: It's all written, already complete.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So do that. He'll do.

Gargamuni: So I can give the names.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Okay. Give me the names and passport numbers so that we can get the inner pass.

Prabhupāda: So immediately do it.

Gargamuni: Yes. And you can say, "Five, plus one by plane." 'Cause even if we go, we have to bring books, and you cannot bring so many books on the plane.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, no.

Gargamuni: So we can bring these by road. There is a road there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That will be nice, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So arrange for this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: As many devotees...

Gargamuni: From Calcutta to Imphal by road we can go.

Prabhupāda: So he'll take the party. So manage tomorrow.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is another imagination, as if by leper colony he'll stop his death. It is not possible. The real solution, real problem, is this, that "Why you are dying?" Stop this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science, in principle, is also aiming for two things. One is to understand the nature of the Absolute. Indirectly or to some degree, science is aiming at that, too, plus to solve the problems of life. These two...

Prabhupāda: The problems of life is birth, death, old age, disease. That they cannot... Real problem is this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like trying to relieve my cold or some sort of physical suffering. That is temporary.

Prabhupāda: That is temporary. That is temporary. That I can change without your scientific help. Now you have discovered this sweater. I can go to the sunshine, and it will be all right. I don't require. Nature's arrangement is already there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's true. But still, people like to be happy.

Prabhupāda: No, no, where is happiness? That is our misunderstanding. If you have to die, if you have to suffer from disease, if you have to become old... Just like I am old. I have got so many inconvenience. You are young man. I feel that you are so in convenient position. I was also young man. So how can I check it? I may be spiritual master of so many young men, you are trying to give me all comfort, but because I have got this body, old body, I am suffering. How you can relieve it?

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he knows about, anything about Caitanya, why should he say like that? Bogus temple. By attempting to establish a temple like that, he has diminished his value. And therefore it is doubtful whether he actually obtained this. Now, our Bon Mahārāja also writes "Doctor."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purchased title. These deprogrammers are doing very active campaign work by getting entry into the schools, the public schools, to speak to the children in the age groups of twelve, between twelve and fifteen, junior high school, high school age. And they're making presentations to them about these different groups like ours, to beware of our groups. To beware of our groups. In other words, it's actually very bad because these children are innocent, and from a very young age now they're being told, "Watch out for the Hare Kṛṣṇas. They will brainwash you." Of course, that makes us even more appealing.

Prabhupāda: That is our advertisement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Because when a young man, when a child is told by his... When a child is told by his parents, "Don't do something..."

Prabhupāda: They'll do it.

Ādi-keśava: Plus, as the teachers begin to see all the big scholars are supporting us, then the teachers will not react so favorably to these deprogrammers.

Indian man (3): Like, like that (Bengali).

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Where is Satsvarūpa? You can give him that, yes, that monama.(?) (end)

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Indian: Two annas, eight paisa.

Prabhupāda: Former paisa, when sixty-four paisa was one rupee. Now hundred equal to one. The purchasing power of money was big. Now thirty percent has gone up, but people's income has not gone up so much. Thirty percent, thirty times. Formerly gold was priced twenty rupees per tolā. Now it is six hundred rupees. So thirty times. But people have not increased their income thirty times. My father was earning two hundred fifty to three hundred per month. So we were middle class. So now thirty times of three hundred means nine thousand. So which middle-class man has increased so much? Middle class man now, if he's earning one thousand rupees he's considered very well-to-do. But what is that one thousand rupees? Nothing. My father had from one business, one hundred rupees, from another business sixty rupees, and we had a house rented, eighty rupees. Eighty rupees, sixty rupees and hundred rupees. How much? Two hundred forty, plus something more. Utmost, three hundred. And in our house four, five guests was always present. It didn't matter. Besides that, he was inviting some Vaiṣṇava, some sādhu. He married four daughters, and we were eating very sumptuously, daily two and half kg milk. Two annas per kg. Very nice milk. This man was coming from outside Calcutta. So we were so many children. We would stand, "Give some phāo:" Two half kg's milk and half kg phāo. He wouldn't mind.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prove that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it's not possible. So I also spoke in an Indian school in Bombay. There are about some three hundred students, plus professors. We even had a short kīrtana, Girirāja and about four five devotees, selling little books outside. So there was... They wanted us start with a kīrtana. So we started Hare Kṛṣṇa, and then they themselves started. The students started leading kīrtana. And I spoke on the... They all saw all the nice equipment...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. This propensity is there already. We are simply awakening. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I found that in India, though, there are some people like that, but they are not as arrogant as... They are a little...

Prabhupāda: Because background is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sukṛtina. Sukṛtina. They're not so sinful. In India they're not so sinful as the Western. Sukṛtina. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ janāḥ sukṛtinaḥ arjuna. And in the Western countries they are simply acting sinfully. Now Kīrtanānanda was prosecuted because he is not killing cows.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: First week? What did...?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, at the end of the first week of April, or in the middle of April at the latest. Then, in about six months, I have decided to finish the book we have been writing. So by six months' full time, all three of us together can work hard... There's a lot to be studied, studies, studies. So I've made a proposal for the three of us in which we'd work real hard for six months to finish the book. And then, by that time we would have the first volume of the journal plus the book. So we can go out for preaching. We can all have the material for... Just speaking, sometimes it's so difficult for others to understand what's there. They want to really study our work. And then we can also do some saṅkīrtana while we're preaching. Then in the future we might also be self-sufficient, not supplying any money from BBT. It will be a burden to the BBT fund, and so also we wanted to generate so that it can be self-sufficient, rather than donation by BBT.

Prabhupāda: They pay for scientific lecture. When there is some scientific lecture...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. We are going to charge high also this time. That's going to be... It involves a lot of hard work, and the scientific community will be open for this type of.... We are not saying something dogmatic. We are presenting in such a manner that it's very scientific and it's ready for discussion. There's no way that they can check it, that "It's coming from this movement. So, no, that's no knowledge." It must be open. It must be open-minded. We must change our views. And if you feel that our views are inferior, then you tell us. If it's inferior, then there is no reason that you shouldn't take it seriously.

Prabhupāda: So when Bombay festival will go on, your presence will be required.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayatīrtha: Indian GBC. They were supposed to make a...

Prabhupāda: No, Indian GBC plus other GBC. Four or five men should study.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda's talking about the agricultural program.

Rāmeśvara: But this ties in.

Gargamuni: Agriculture minister.

Prabhupāda: Not only here, but everywhere. The farm project is sound project. So what other things?

Satsvarūpa: There's quite a list of resolutions, yesterday's and today's. Beginning yesterday morning: We finished the last assignments of GBC men, that Jagadīśa will continue as the education minister and that Svarūpa Dāmodara will execute his GBC duties in connection with the Bhaktivedanta Institute, Eastern headquarters in Bombay, Western headquarters Washington, D.C., with Rūpānuga.

Prabhupāda: And Boston also? No.

Satsvarūpa: No. Today also with new preaching centers, Svarūpa Dāmodara was assigned the development of Manipur.

Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇava state. Do you like this idea?

Rāmeśvara: Svarūpa, do you like the idea?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Some contribution.

Dr. Sharma: Contribution. And there was a real rich life in Indian village. Now, after independence, that life has been really destroyed. Because the grants have been taken away and here, it's really a pain to see such beautiful temples having no maintenance now. Plus this so-called secular education, you know godless education they have introduced, that has further harmed, because the temple-going public has also dwindled in number. And it looks like there has been a systematic plan to undermine our...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, by this Congress. Their opinion is that India is too much religious; they spoiled.

Dr. Sharma: Yes. Also I just happened to do a survey in South about the party brāhmaṇas who were having the...

Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇas, they, from your Rajasthan, the other day, I got before. Twenty thousand brāhmaṇas have come here in Bombay to serve as tea-walla.

Dr. Sharma: Tea-walla. That is correct.

Prabhupāda: So who is caring for the... Because there is no maintenance, there is no education, so how the brāhmaṇas are being maintained?

Dr. Sharma: These, the Rajasthani brāhmaṇas were not that, you know, strong brāhmaṇas as you see in south. In the south the brāhmaṇas are very Vaiṣṇavas, very staunch, and they were veda-paṭhīs. They had the whole aural...

Prabhupāda: No. Veda... Because the brāhmaṇas, they should be veda-paṭhī, at the same time, the public also must know the importance of Vedas. So if you prepare the public that it is useless, then how these brāhmaṇas can be maintained?

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Guru dāsa: So I can do that in the Communist countries also.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, everywhere.

Guru dāsa: I'll do it.

Prabhupāda: Science is for everyone. There is no such thing as Communist science. "Two plus two equal to four," that is both for the Communists and capitalists. That's a fact. Because I am Communist, I cannot say "Two plus two equal to five." It is four. So science means fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That theatrical group will also be popular in Communist countries. That drama group will also be popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, drama group also. That is from artistic side. And from scientific side. And gradually we are making Bombay as the headquarters. So occasionally you come and go, and if possible tackle these men and find money to be spent.

Guru dāsa: Yes, visa.

Prabhupāda: We are doing with so many temples. That is Indian property.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Betiye, sit down.

Indian (1): No, he has come to pay respect to you.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But wait. Let him come in. The point is that if you keep yourself in ignorance, then what is the use of advancing further? If your basic principle is calculated wrong, then whatever you construct on that wrong background, everything is wrong. One mistake done in the beginning, then plus minus, plus minus, ultimately it is wrong. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that unless you take seriously what Kṛṣṇa says, you are simply jumping like animals. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. First of all, you understand your position, what Kṛṣṇa says. Then go ahead. You do not understand the basic principle what Kṛṣṇa says and you are declaring yourself, "I am reading Bhagavad-gītā and Bhagavad-gītā is my life," and so on.

Mr. Koshi: Would you say that this is a return to this Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This culture is purely Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore we have given the name "Kṛṣṇa consciousness." What Kṛṣṇa said, take it.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Secular, pecular this is... Knowledge is knowledge. We cannot compromise. Knowledge is knowledge. It cannot be changed because there is secular, pecular. Knowledge is knowledge. Just like this asmin dehe dehino 'smin. What is secular knowledge? It is knowledge for everyone. Within this body the active principle is there. And the secular knowledge says "No, no, the active principle is outside." We have to accept it? Knowledge is knowledge. Two plus two is equal to everyone, everywhere. It is four.

Mr. Koshi: But those who do not subscribe to this process...

Prabhupāda: Who do not subscribe, if they say "Five," shall we have to take it?

Mr. Koshi: No, I agree. I agree.

Prabhupāda: Then why...? What is this? This is nonsense. Two plus two equal to four. It will be accepted by everyone. Every scientist, every mathematician. And if by vote, secular state, "It is five" or "It is six," shall we have to accept it? We have to accept knowledge as it is. Why you say secular or not secular?

Mr. Koshi: No, I think it is a question of accepting a concept of...

Prabhupāda: No concept. It is science. It is not... Try to understand this. "Two plus two" is science. It is not concept.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Again why you are coming to renunciation? First of all come to the knowledge. First of all accept that within this body there is the active principle. Then whether it is required renunciation, no renunciation, that we shall discuss later on. First of all, we have to understand, as Kṛṣṇa says in the very beginning, that asmin dehe dehī. Within this body, there is the owner of the body. First of all try to understand. He is speaking on that subject matter. Dehī. Not on the deha. People should understand first of all this science. Then talk of other things. When we say "Two plus two equal to four," no scholar will deny it. "Yes, it is four." Nobody, no rascal will say, "No, it is five or three." Nobody will disagree, if it is science, if it is mathematics. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says within this body, the owner of the body. Who will deny it? Let them accept it. Then we shall discuss what is that owner, what is the nature of that owner. First of all let them accept it. They are accepting the machine as everything. Do you agree or not?

Mr. Koshi: Yeah, but who is the owner?

Prabhupāda: Ah. Yes. Machine, if you take the importance of the machine and not the machine driver, then what is your knowledge? If a dog is thinking "I am a bulldog, gow gow," and if a man is thinking "I am Indian, gow gow," what is the difference? He is embarrassed with the machine body, and he is also embarrassed with the machine body. The dog is jumping, monkey is jumping with a machine body, and if we also imitate jumping like the dog and the monkey, so what is the difference? The human being is to understand that "I am not this body." That is the first knowledge. That is the first principle.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are also ready to...

Girirāja: Yes, because that's the rate I established. We checked the market rate. Plus we want them to give six months of rent in advance, plus we want another benefit from them. I was recently in Hyderabad, and I saw an advertisement in the Hindu paper of Madras by a temple, which advertised the deity of the temple and said you can make a donation, and you can make a donation at any of the branches of the Indian bank, Bank of Madras. So one of the things I have been talking to these banks is when we open a Bombay temple we would like to try this approach here, advertise the Deities, have a small story about the Deities, and say anyone who wants to make a donation can make it at any branch of State Bank of India without any charge. And then the bank must agree to give us this service, collect the money and remit to us. So with the banks who have been coming I have been asking them...

Prabhupāda: They will deposit in Bombay.

Morning Talk -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So will the government accept?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In United States there is a group in Pennsylvania, and they say that they will not undergo any kind of normal education, because it is polluted, and they have their own education, and they are permitted. Even from six, seven years old, from first grade. They are called the Amish people. (some noise in background) That's not a door, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That's heavy dropping of heavy items.

Prabhupāda: Another point, in secular, the scientific knowledge, two plus two equal to four. If somebody says, "No, in our opinion it is five," will it be accepted?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't hear what you were saying.

Prabhupāda: If two plus two equal to four. If somebody says "In our opinion it should be five..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no one will accept that.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, if government requires teaching the science that this body is not yourself, you are different from the body, if some other sect, they say, "That it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā; it is meant for the Hindus, not for us," will it be accepted?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should not be.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the institution for teaching Bhagavad-gītā must be there.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So while we are still here, he can come here in the daytime for working with me. Prabhupāda said. And even when we're traveling, after you get your copy corrected, you can send it to him, and he'll write out a fair copy and then send it for printing. Plus he can do his own translating work also. That'll be good. Otherwise Gopīnātha would be slowed down if he had to write everything once again.

Prabhupāda: He is doing nicely. He has got control over language.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One advantage I see also is that because he's been to the West, he is not so enamored...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because he has already been to the West, his mind is not so much agitated with thinking to get something from this movement.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes that is a problem here in India.

Prabhupāda: Both of them.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: Rejected... The impediment was that all those rulers, most of them gave up believing in religion.

Prabhupāda: Why you are bringing religion? It is science. Why you are mistaking again? Is that religion, a child is growing to become a young man? Is that religion? It is science.

Mr. Rajda: But they do not look at from that perspective.

Prabhupāda: That means rascals. They do not accept "Two plus two equal to four."

Mr. Rajda: Yeah, correct. Intelligent...

Prabhupāda: If we do not take mathematics as it is, and if we interpret "Two plus two equal to three," that is rascaldom. "Two plus two equal to four," that is everywhere.

Mr. Rajda: Quite right. Everything is right. Now only put some concrete proposals, how do we want to proceed in this...

Prabhupāda: The proposal is there. Here it is already done. The same principle, the four things, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68). These four principles, what is the difficulty? But if you are determined, "No, we shall not follow," then who can educate you? There is no loss. And if there is some gain, why not take it? We have to educate so many young men. So I think that harijana movement... You can bring that... That one gentleman, Dr. Parmar(?), you know him?

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All violating. You see? I had been recently in Gandhi's āśrama at Trinoba(?). I do not wish to say, but they do not understand Gītā.

Mr. Dwivedi: Because they mixed politics with religion and wanted an adjustment...

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. Why you take...? Religion is also, we shall do. As soon as I say religion, you say, "I have got my religion." It is science. "Two plus two equal to four" is equally understandable by Hindus, by Muslim, by Christian. "Two plus two equal to four," everyone knows. Everyone should accept. "Because I am Hindu, therefore two plus two equal to five"—that cannot be. So Bhagavad-gītā was misrepresented that it is meant for the Hindus. If it is meant for the Hindus, why they are coming? What is the use? They were Christians. They were Jews. Why they are coming? It is a science. So we have to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is—science. It is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). But they misunderstand religion. We described in a...

Mr. Dwivedi: And even the present brāhmaṇas also equally misunderstand. For instance, Gītā is compulsory in every institution right from the very beginning. So at one time, because it was compulsory for Muslims, even it was compulsory for the harijanas. I stood excommunicated for some time. Now sometimes complaint goes to the government, "What is solution?" And therefore they say, "Why government should hear you? You are complaining everybody." "This is not everybody. This is..." Gītā is no particular religion's book. It is a cosmopolitan...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have no eyes to see. Why these people are accepting Gītā? They are not Hindus. They are coming from Christian family, Jewish family, Muhammadan family. They could not present. They had no power to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They are simply puffed up. So we have to develop that institution that it is meant for. In South Africa I was in a college for lecturing. There was a Arya-samaj. He says that "You are presenting Gītā. It is for the Hindus." "No, this is for everything, everyone. When Kṛṣṇa says that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), does it mean for the Hindus? The Muhammadan kaumāra does not become yuvaka? Or the Muhammadan yuvaka does not become old man? So why do you say like that?" Mūḍhas. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā generally accepts anyone.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is our proposal.

Mr. Dwivedi: He will help me.

Prabhupāda: With spiritual idea.

Mr. Dwivedi: Mr. Jetthi, he will also help me with this program.

Prabhupāda: Gandhi's program plus spiritual. Gandhi's program...

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...plus spiritual idea. Gandhi had no spiritual program. Therefore it was a failure. But here that simple living plus spiritual program, that will affect.

Mr. Dwivedi: Just to rephrase, I have written this...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I can go over that. That's advertising. I can do this with him outside, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Mr. Dwivedi: I have written this letter for you so that...

Prabhupāda: You read it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "To Shree Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami, Hare Krishna Land, Juhu. Dear friend, I am extremely grateful to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda Guru Mahārāja for giving me his precious few minutes yesterday and your good self for arranging the interview. I request that His Divine Grace be graciously pleased to fix a date for His Divine Grace's visit to Pauri to inaugurate International Krishna Society branch of Madhya Pradesh at Pauri and to revitalize and modernize the rural uplift activities of the Adarsh Seva Sanga. With profound regards, yours fraternally, H. S. Dwivedi."

Prabhupāda: So?

Mr. Dwivedi: So if I get the letter from you... In fact, I drafted this letter for you also. You can make necessary changes in it, so if I get it, even a tentative day, that will be convenient for me. I'll be able to approach the press people over here, and they will just spread out the news.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is their way of sādhana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone admits that this is luxurious, fifth floor of...

Prabhupāda: It is luxurious. (break) ...the āṭā dough. So after it is cooked... They have got ghee. That ball soaked in ghee and the ḍāl, it is so nice when taken. That is called baṭī. Very quickly made. And after eating, with that ash the two or three utensils, mean the loṭā and the plate, they'll cleanse it very nice and walk away. And that food is sufficient for twenty-four hours. Within twenty-four hours he will not be hungry and feel very strong. The two things. And you can cook anywhere without any difficulty. In India, especially in village, you can get so many dried cow dung. So fuel is ready. The āṭā is packed up. And ghee in a pot. That's all. How simple life. Simply they'll sit down where there is water, and they'll take water. Then everything is arranged. No hotel. Or even there is no āṭā, they keep their own ghee, homemade, pure. Āṭā can be purchased anywhere in the village. There is no need of carrying āṭā. So this preparation for tourists... Tourists, Indian tourists, means going to some holy place. They have no other sightseeing, no program. All villagers, they are still... The pilgrimage in holy places, now no educated man goes. Very rarely. All these villagers by thousands... They... You see this Tirupati, Tirumala. All the contribution by the villagers. By their hard-earned money they keep something for going. You have seen Tirupati, Tirumal...? Standing for hours to contribute in a line. Hundreds of people. They'll come, contribute something. Then they'll shave their head, see the Deity, have some bath in the adjoining lake. Then they'll take prasādam. That is very big tank. Everywhere. In India, wherever some famous temple is there, there is a tank. Now the haircutting, that lakhs of rupees are sold to foreign countries is hair. Heaps. These managers, they are selling the hairs. Very big business. The foreign countries, the black hair, they purchase it at good price for making wig. (pause) So that is written nice. He wanted to criticize me, but he could not do it very strongly. He did not like the idea that I am sticking to Bhagavad-gītā. That was his... But it has been shown that our sticking to Bhagavad-gītā, that is our mission. And it is a science. Why he called sectarian? When Kṛṣṇa says anything, that is science. "Two plus two equal to four" is acceptable by everyone. Why it is sect...? Actually all religion is going on under the plea, "We believe." What is this nonsense, "We believe"? If you believe "Two plus two equal to five," will it be correct? Their religion is "We believe." So our Bhagavad-gītā is not like that. It is fact. That is the difference. (break) ...of him. I was staying there in one big room. Crazy. Alone I am.

Conversations -- May 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, that is...

Rāmeśvara: Plus it will not be repaired when it breaks.

Prabhupāda: That is very risky.

Rāmeśvara: We can tell these composers that "We are offering so many books for many, many years to come. We will give you so much business if you work faster." (pause)

Prabhupāda: Bring little bhaskar lavan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Little bhaskar lavan. (pause)

Indian devotee (1): They are just coming with it, Prabhupāda. (pause)

Jayapatākā: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Jayapatākā: Bhaskar lavan. (pause)

Prabhupāda: Now you can go take rest.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Yaśodānandana: ...the scientific approach.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (Bengali)

Dr. Sharma: Plus it should be nice.

Prabhupāda: It is already.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I'm going to have to look tomorrow and...

Prabhupāda: Hm. You can see, both, and select which room for which quarter. Big, big room... (Bengali)

Dr. Sharma: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: He is very intelligent.

Dr. Sharma: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: He's organizing this, that Poland, communist country. He has accepted hard knot. And knocking. (Bengali)

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like to go up to the roof now?

Prabhupāda: I have no objection. (Bengali) You are all able.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (aside:) Yeah, tomorrow I'll go and see everything.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) So? No, I shall go. Utsāhād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, sato vṛtteḥ sādhu..., ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes people say... There's couple people that even went to your place on 26 Second Avenue. They say, "So this movement has come a long way in ten years, from Second Avenue." They remember you sitting there. On Sundays in New York they have the Love Feast. So the average, they get about seven hundred people come. Six to eight hundred is an average crowd on a Sunday. And they serve the... They have simultaneously activities on the five different floors, four different floors. In the basement they have the restaurant. That is where the Life Members take prasāda. And very nicely dressed people, they go down there and they sit at the tables. And we have a group of devotees chanting bhajana, and they take prasādam and we serve them right at the table. Then, on the next floor, there is all the time kīrtana and ārati, throughout the Love Feast. It starts from five in the evening till nine. So they have continuously kīrtana and ārati. And also the store. We have a very good store. It's a very big sized store, and it has all kinds of devotional paraphernalias, all instruments, mūrtis, things to make people take part in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in their homes. And another very popular thing we have, just in front of the temple room we have a big table where we sell flowers and oils that people can purchase to offer to the Deities. And even mukuṭas for the people... Even though we would have bought them for the Deities anyway, but this way we put them there and the people buy them and then they come and offer them to Rādhā-Govinda, so it's a... We don't have to purchase ourselves. And then we sell prasādam. People take home. They like dessert. We sell in box. We have cardboard boxes the same as they have in bakeries where they put bread. We put different types of pastries and other things that have been offered to the Deity as mahā-prasādam. People purchase this. Then on the next floor up there is a lecture room, so there someone's always giving lectures, constantly giving lectures. And then there's different offices there, Life Membership office so we're enrolling members there. Then the floor after that they have a big lounge, and there we show all the time movies from the cassettes, so people can come in all the time and see movies. Plus there's prasādam. All young people, sitting on the floor, taking prasādam in all the different rooms.

Prabhupāda: They enjoy.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. And then again on the next floor up it's the same, plus there's the theater, and the theater has two performances, Sudāmā Mahārāja's group. So a person can go from one floor to another for many hours and take part in different activities and feel very blissful. They love it. The same people love coming again and again, every Sunday. And there's about eight or nine devotees. Their only business is to try and make the people join and become full-time devotees.

Prabhupāda: And book selling?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Book selling... We sell at least, say, I would say, something like about four hundred dollars worth of books every Sunday at the temple. Most of the people who came, they came because they bought your book, and we gave them an invitation to the feast. Everyone who has joined has bought your book first. That is their introduction to Kṛṣṇa consciousness—a book. Very few people come first to a temple. First thing they take and read your book. Then they become interested. The book goes into their home. (break) They can put these. Oh, yeah... Because they're libraries. I mean, they can buy the books. They can buy the books. The theology, arts... Nothing wrong with their buying, but probably they... From what I know, the general system is that you don't send salesmen into these communist countries. You send a brochure, and they buy through their agents. And this is unheard of, that someone sneaks into a country with all these books and preaches. He said sometimes his life is threatened.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has to run out of the universities because finally, after a while, the officials get notified. They figure out who he is, and then they start chasing him. Then he had to run out.

Prabhupāda: Dangerous affair.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now this Ambarīṣa, Alfred Ford, he is prepared that "Here is two hundred seventy crores of rupees for you. You take it whenever you like." Two hundred seventy crores. He has got his property. He has offered, "You take it immediately, and I'll give you." So you are engaging that money to construct a huge building in Washington for showing this planetary system. What shall I do with the money, two hundred seventy crores? (chuckles) Three hundred million? No?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About thirty million. But he has other, plus other... That he has, money in the bank.

Prabhupāda: So wherefrom the money is coming unless Kṛṣṇa sends? Did I go to America with some money?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Forty rupees.

Prabhupāda: That's all. And one tin box. (laughs) Give up this mistaken idea that "If we get some large sum of money from our father, then we shall be happy." That is not... That is wrong idea. Happiness depends on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can take advantage from your father that you may not live uncomfortably. That's all, that much. That I am making sufficient arrangement. In your present position you'll never be disturbed. Now try to become happy by advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So give them the instruction.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They should complain to the Consulate, American Consulate, and Consulate will complain to the Embassy. Once we get the full information then we can take action here in Delhi also. At this point we don't have enough information. This is a very good road to take. Go to the American Embassy in Delhi and say, "We want protection. We are American citizens. We want protection. We're being attacked in Bengal. You must put pressure on the government to give us protection." And they'll do that surely. Plus they have to start an investigation to expose who has done this. That has to also be brought up. I'm sure Jayapatākā is... Śrīla Prabhupāda, should we go and take our breakfast?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want Vrindavan to stay for a while?

Prabhupāda: No, he (indistinct). (Bengali conversation about going around Vṛndāvana) I shall give you car. (Bengali). So if you do business, I'll give you car. Not for luxury. (conversation continues in Bengali) (end)

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Gujarati books also should be same standard.

Prabhupāda: Yes, same standard. Very nice, Hindi books. All right.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Be enthusiastic to print books. And these items are very, very nice, greeting.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Greeting cards. This will overtake India, take everyone by storm. Plus, we are coming up with calendars next year.

Prabhupāda: Yes, make money and spend it for printing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And plus, the temples make money also. It's a new source of income for the temples. And if we don't do it, the karmīs are doing it in any case.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we shall do exactly like karmīs, but not for us. For Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Same thing we are doing. Therefore these Māyāvādī cannot understand. "Again form?" The example is just like a man like me, he's diseased, he's suffering. And when they say, "Mother Yaśodās' crying," "So again crying?" He does not know what is this crying. He thinks this crying and that crying the same. Therefore Māyāvādī. They want to make it zero—no crying. But we take it a great blessing, crying for Kṛṣṇa. But they cannot understand. They say, "Again crying? Then what is the benefit?" And this is māyā. You understand? This is the simple understanding of Māyāvāda. As soon as there is crying, they say, "Oh, it is māyā. No crying." Nirviśeṣa-vādī. Crying is a great transcendental pleasure. That they cannot understand, the poor fund of knowledge. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was simply crying. That is love. So that they do not understand, how crying can be pleasure. That is Māyāvāda. All right.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Quite big.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not real big, but then again, in that area and for what we want, it doesn't have to be real big. It's not meant to live a lot of people there. Upstairs, on the top floor, there's about four or five rooms for living or for other activities. Then the two ground and basement... I don't know the exact layout. I only went in quickly. I'm trying to think if it was basement plus three-basement, ground, first and second or basement, ground and first floor. Probably there was basement, ground floor, first floor, second floor. Yes, that's what it is. They have rooms where you can do different things.

Prabhupāda: Brick building?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not a big building. It's not that big.

Prabhupāda: Wooden.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, brick building. Yes, Prabhupāda, brick building. It is brick.

Prabhupāda: In London mostly they are brick.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause of the cold climate. But the location is...

Prabhupāda: Very costly.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All right. Whatever manuscript you have ready, print.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because it blocks up too much money otherwise, because we don't have much money, and we're going to print five books in Gujarati now, so we just invest the minimum.

Prabhupāda: I want to see, whatever manuscript is ready, they should be printed.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we've come out with Diwali cards this year. These are going to be very, very big. Inside is a message. We are selling hundreds of these. On this BBT will make a very big profit plus the temples will make a profit. We are selling these exclusively to our life members. And on the back is the mahā-mantra. I brought you a package with me. This is another sample.

Yaśomatīnandana: This is going to be very profitable business.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the shop it sells for four rupees, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Yaśomatīnandana: We'll sell it for two rupees to our men.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: One-fifty. I've sent you a newsletter to all the temples.

Yaśomatīnandana: We'll sell for two rupees.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We want bulk orders.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How much do they cost?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The BBT cost I'll tell you later.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Such and such book.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I thought that by coming out with these Diwali cards, each temple will make an extra thirty, forty thousand per year, because the BBT will make about a lakh a year extra. It's new income. This is a little start.

Prabhupāda: Yaśomatīnandana will order that set. You can sell.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, each temple I've given them a quota of one lakh cards. I wrote a newsletter to all the temples, and they must do minimum one lakh cards. Plus we're going to export these to New York, London, Los Angeles. They're all interested in these.

Prabhupāda: The printing is first class.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's like American standard.

Prabhupāda: I think the Diwali greeting card dealers also will accept.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but we are keeping it... Śrīla Prabhupāda, I studied the whole market. It is to our advantage to restrict the sale, because when we deal with dealers or distributors we have to sell them at half the price and allow them to keep their profit. But we want to make this exclusive for life members. Otherwise, if anyone can buy it in a market, it's not such a great prestige.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. You keep...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So this we are showing, as if we are doing the life members a favor. These are just some advanced samples that are printed just to get orders. And plus, anyone who orders more than hundred cards, we will print their name and message inside. And plus, there's a mahā-mantra on the back of every... Hundred cards is the minimum order.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A hundred's nothing. They'll all do that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you have sent the export books?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I shipped 26,000 books this month. That's why I got delayed. We shipped 21,000 books to Australia and 11,000 to England.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They've all gone. Plus, we shipped a big order to Africa, to Fiji...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Africa said they never got theirs.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They got it, and I have a bill of lading. That was a completely bogus letter. I have all the evidence with me. Yes, I've got a bill of lading to show you. Fiji, Mauritius, they've all gone. Plus, I also wrote up a small catalog. This is a very cheap catalog, not like the American. A lot of people write to BBT for brochure or catalog. So this is costing us only about twenty-five paisa but advertises all your books.

Prabhupāda: Hindi?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's in English. Yes. Because a lot of people write to BBT to "Send us your catalog," and if we do a big one, American one, that's very expensive. We can't give it out free. So I wrote a small sixteen... This is for free distribution.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It advertises all your books. Plus, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I had signed a contract with the biggest mail-order house in India, called Mail Order Sales. And this week their full-page advertisement on the Bhagavad-gītā is reaching 25,000 households. Their ad wasn't ready, but they are sending it to me in few days. It's a very beautiful ad. They have a monthly newspaper called Mail Order News, and that they've given a whole page. But they pay for it. We give them a straight commission on sales. Just like in America you have Book of the Month Club and selling books by mail. This is very big. Plus we are now doing the Bhaktivedanta Encyclopedia of Vedic Knowledge. We are preparing a brochure just like this. This is a Brittanica Encyclopedia advertisement. So we're going to have your nineteen or twenty Bhāgavatams here. The artists are working on it and this is going to be sent to about thirty thousand households. These are just for households, not libraries or anyone, just as selling to businessmen and executives.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who's going to do this?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Mail Order Sales. It's a company that specializes in mail orders. This will be very good.

Prabhupāda: Everything you do, it is... Now, utilize. So one book has come only.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I've got three books. Two you can keep. One... I'll give one to Prem Yogi, Bhakti-prema Mahārāja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is his name in there?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, as the translator.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Translator? Anyway, it is the teachings.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Translator? Anyway, it is the teachings.

Yaśomatīnandana: (reads Sanskrit verse, Hindi translation)

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Plus, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we're getting ready to print the Gujarati, Hindi and Tamil Gītās. We're going to do the color plates together.

Prabhupāda: Next you make Gujarati.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we're doing the Gujarati Gītā. We have five books ready, and London has already ordered five thousand copies.

Prabhupāda: So why not print?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We are.

Yaśomatīnandana: Just we have to... The titles are being printed in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. (indistinct) And Bombay is not far away.

Yaśomatīnandana: We have Teachings of Lord Caitanya ready, Nectar of Devotion is being ready. Perfection of Yoga is ready.

Prabhupāda: Gujarati books will sell very nice all over the world. Gujarati people are all over the world.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I told England to take five thousand.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere they have made colonies. So I am getting very good news, book distribution, from Europe and America.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Other things you can do, but you... This your only main business. Now do it very pleasingly so that you can... So whatever you have done, it is very pleasing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also we are now going to have big distributors who are ready to take on our books, and we're going to have them distribute our Hindi, Gujarati books all over India. Plus, you know, those railway stands? We're going to come out with a plastic, small bag type, with six pockets in it, and it's going to say, "Bhaktivedanta Yoga Library." We're going to have Beyond Birth and Death, Perfection of Yoga, in Hindi, and in Gujarati areas, Gujarati books. We'll have a complete selection of yoga books. I've been speaking to many distributors, and yoga books are very popular in India. I was also thinking, I have this book all ready, The Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I wanted to change the name to The Scientific Basis of Bhakti-yoga in Hindi. Just by replacing "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness" with "Bhakti-yoga," the appeal will broaden because people are buying books just...

Prabhupāda: You can.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Can I do it?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And print Hindi books, Gujarati books also.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The Gujarati Gītā will be ready in one month. I have already finished printing the color pictures for Hindi Gītā, Gujarati Gītā and Telegu Gītā. It's already completed. That Telegu Gītā is being printed in Hyderabad, and the Gujarati Gītā is also at the printers. And the Hindi Gītā is being composed. Plus we are doing a Kannada Gītā in Kanarese language.

Prabhupāda: Is it necessary?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We have a temple in Bangalore, and they need it for distribution in Bangalore. But this will be just your verses and translation, like they have done in Telegu two years ago, a small book which they can sell for one rupee or two rupees.

Prabhupāda: Don't keep money unnecessarily. Invest.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's no money. (laughs) BBT is... I'm always asking Hari-śauri to make his payment quickly, because we have invested everything into printing.

Prabhupāda: And now we have got..., sent four lakhs.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. It is very good.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And now we are doing this for the encyclopedia and for the Hindi books. Like our advertisement came in the third page of the Illustrated Weekly of India. It came in Hindustan Times of that Sunday. Plus, we are sending a mail order campaign directly to people's houses. And thousand Gītās in two months is very, very good, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Hari-śauri: It's just the beginning.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to see those advertisements? Okay. You saw it earlier. It's the same advertisement in different magazines, and this company is paying for it.

Prabhupāda: Not at our expense.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. I just give them a little higher commission, but we still make lot of money, plus it is giving us so much publicity. So many bookstores are seeing this advertisement and asking us to give them books.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That's nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Plus it increases our prestige—they see so many advertisements of Bhaktivedanta Swami's Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: So follow this policy. Don't keep idle money in the bank.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is that place?

Jayapatākā: That's in Balasore district. It's about thirty miles south of Balasore. It's a three-hour bus ride from Bhuvaneśvara north. There's a Gaura-Gopāla Mandir there that was being managed by a disciple of Parvat Mahārāja, a disciple of Parvat Mahārāja. Lokanātha Swami had written to you that they wanted to donate the temple plus twenty-four bighās of land, and you had replied back that he should accept it. So he left three men there from his party and they registered the land in your name, including the mandira. At that place Lord Caitanya had visited on occasion, going back and forth between Bengal...

Prabhupāda: Baribhada? That place is called Baribhada?

Jayapatākā: Now it's called Bhadrak.

Room Conversation -- October 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Chronic. And Dr. Gopal, just like all of the other doctors, both Ayurvedic or allopathic, they all insist that you have to take more liquid. They said that you should measure how much you pass urine today. Say you pass 250 cc's of urine. That means that tomorrow you should take that amount plus 400 more in liquid. Each day.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Always 400 more than the urine passed.

Bhavānanda: Four hundred more than you passed urine the day before. You should take any sort of liquid-milk, juices, water, anything. He also said that you have to take rich protein foods. Milk, curd, chānā, Proteinex, fruits, juices...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But milk causes mucus for Prabhupāda.

Bhavānanda: They say that the lungs are... Anyway...

Hari-śauri: They haven't seen the difficulty that Prabhupāda has in bringing this stuff up.

Bhavānanda: Milk... There has to be some protein.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chānā seemed good. Today you had the curd. It seems to have been all right. The cheese this morning, Prabhupāda. I don't notice any cough today.

Prabhupāda: Cough generates later on.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now I am fallen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now what?

Prabhupāda: Fallen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We couldn't hear what you were saying.

Prabhupāda: Falling down. Try pass urine. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The urine is getting a little darker, Śrīla Prabhupāda, again. In the last ten and a half hours you've only taken 150 cc's of any kind of drink. If you drink a lot, often, then the urine will become clear because the disease will get flushed out, plus your body will absorb some strength and you'll get the... You won't fall down. You'll get the determination to become better. The determination and strength won't come simply by laying there. It'll come as you drink more and as the disease goes away. I mean I can very easily say, "Don't make the effort. Let Kṛṣṇa do with you what..." But I think Kṛṣṇa is doing.

Prabhupāda:. What was the quantity or urine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was quantity of the urine? About 50, I think. About 50 cc's. I'm all in favor of you increasing your drinking and eating. I know it may be a little difficult. It may be a little difficult, but that's the proper way to get better.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: And explain to him that you've had some restless reaction to this medicine and get his opinion and new diagnosis, new medicines, if necessary. And for your liquid intake, if you can take just four glasses of Complan in one day, plus some juice now and then, it won't be so much, so many times you'll have to be bothered. They all recommended that Complan is the very best.

Prabhupāda: Hm? What?

Bhakti-caru: Complan, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's a drink, beverage, like Horlicks. I gave it to you last night.

Bhavānanda: Is there some bad effect to it that you feel, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you take that?

Prabhupāda: Not yet, but when it becomes mucus.

Bhakti-caru: That's not milk, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Hari-śauri: Complan is milk-mixed. At least there doesn't seem to be any mucus this morning, and this is a full day now since you took that chānā.

Prabhupāda: The chānā was nothing. So? What do you want to do now?

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: 27th October?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This month, yes, October 27th. It was Indian National Science Academy. There are some very well known scientists, including Kothari, D. S. Kothari and other... They told me there is a group of scientists in Delhi, actually from all over India. It's called "Mind Group." They like to do research on nature of consciousness. And they told me that it would be very good if we have a debate between our group and their group. So I agreed to that. And the Mishra, actually, the one who came last time, he also belongs to that group, and Kothari is the chairman of that group, and there's one Bengali called Lankadas(?) Gupta. He's the secretary. They all belong to that group. So they're going to invite us for a, they call, round-table debate. It will be about twenty people from their side and five from our side. So we're going to have a confrontation. And also Dr. Krana told me that when I come I can fix a television program in Delhi to appear us, and they're going to interview us in the Indian television. But I decided to establish Bombay as a... Since we have everything there ready, I'd like to furnish with office, and also I requested our members to stay here for some time. So they're going to establish the library also. I have plans to contact many leading scientists, personal goal. So we'll all go out with our books, and we'll try to make them members of the Institute. Also in the process we'll speak and make engagements, and also we'll try to request them to help us in pushing this movement, plus we'll request them to review our books on a scientific level. And, so that way we can make friends and they can help us in, I think, various ways. I think that... I'm thinking of charging one hundred rupees only for membership. This is called annual membership. It's like in any other institution we have this membership program. Just like I am a member of American Chemical Society. We have annual membership fees. So just like that, we'll generate, called subscriber members, and they will get our journal, Sa-Vijñānam, free. And they'll renew this every year. I just discussed this morning with my members that we should plan to make many members while we're here, six months in India. Then yesterday we were discussing about our possible permanent place in the United States. And I suggested that, from my experience, that Atlanta was very, very nice place especially to do writing, because the atmosphere is nice and the climate is also nice and it's natural setting. It is very conducive, especially thinking and writing type of work. So I decided that until at least we have a permanent place, I like to stay for a few years in Atlanta. Then they will stay about three, four years to do the, some of our main writing. And then also we can do the preaching, side by side. So instead of going to Europe, we'll go back to the United States after the Māyāpur festival, and then we'll do more writing, and in the process we'll also make several engagements in the United States. We'll start preaching now. Also Amarendra, that I requested... He's in Balavanta's zone. He's the president in Gainesville. He's the one who's good in making engagements for us. He's very enthusiastic. But he cannot come outside United States. So I thought it will also be very practical to be in Atlanta. Then in the process we'll look for a possible permanent place in Washington, DC, so that we can work out slowly, but... At least four or five years we'll be engaged in writing. So... And also we'll request, make many members as possible from the scientific community.

Prabhupāda: Enroll the intelligent men.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's another reason though. The main thing is that this room, the rooms in this house don't have so much ventilation like Māyāpur does. Very good. Prabhupāda is always laying in one room, if he gets air then it's good. Passing air, you know, ventilation. He's been in the same room now for a long time. Change of place is nice. Plus all of the things are grown fresh there, so Prabhupāda might get some appetite. Very nice vegetables grown there, fresh. Anyway, he's thinking about it. He said you will come with him. Prabhupāda quoted that verse. You were quoting that verse that Māyāpur and Vṛndāvana are..., are the same. Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi? What is that verse?

Prabhupāda: Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi jebā jāne cintāmaṇi tāra hoy braja-bhūmi bās.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want a little brahmi oil, Śrīla Prabhupāda, on your head? Will it relax you a little?

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Once one man asked why Kṛṣṇa Himself comes in India only? Why not American countries?

Prabhupāda: What did you answer?

Bhagatji: I heard the answer forty years back, Prabhupāda, from one professor. He brought the map of the world, and he showed the India position. Like this. That suppose one is sick. Someone has some cut. Then he's a very good man, and he sends the information to the hospital. He said "It is a small cut. Let me send my compounder(?)." The compounder(?) goes and makes a powder(?). And sometimes he has got... Then he says "Let go." Then a big, more serious disease he sends. And suppose he gets heart attack, so then himself goes, because it is a very serious disease. So he got the world map, and he showed that India is the heart of the world. So Kṛṣṇa comes Himself. And U.P. is the heart of India. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes Kṛṣṇa comes to Bengal. (laughter)

Bhagatji: But in a devotee form.

Prabhupāda: Just like government has got a house. So when the governor comes, he comes in that house. Similarly India is the bhūmi, and whenever incarnation of God or God Himself comes... (break) ...discussion.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This Asnani has gone? Asnani already left? That...? Our lawyer friend?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Asnani executed a power of attorney to Girirāja and myself for signing on your behalf. But our specimen signatures have to be notarized. So that, Girirāja is getting done by the same notary who notarized the power of attorney. Then Girirāja is sending me that document. Soon as he gets to Bombay, he'll have it done on Monday. Then he's sending it to me. Then I'll have the copy of the power of attorney plus the copy of the notarized signatures, and these two together I'll send with a letter to the bank to send the certificates here. When the certificates come here, then I'll present them to the local bank to make collection from the post office.

Guest (1): Yes, that is the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the system. It's going to take a little time. It will be matured. It may take a week or so more because we have to send from Bombay and then to Calcutta, then it has to come back here. Even if it takes an extra week, there's no great harm, I think. We'll try to have it done by the date, but I think it may take a few extra days.

Guest (1): No, even it takes more time, they will give you the tax for tax deduction.(?) (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can explain to Prabhupāda that the system we are doing is the correct system.

Guest (1): Because we cannot sign now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. But you should explain to him that you agree.

Prabhupāda: I can sign, but it will not be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I can sign, but it will not be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same.

Prabhupāda: Therefore...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In any case, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have to bring the certificates here. That's the first thing. Whether it's your signature or whether it's our signatures, the certificate has to be brought here.

Guest (1): You may sign. If both of these will be given to me, that will do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We'll give in this plus the certificates to the bank, and they'll give us a receipt.

Prabhupāda: So you can take the copy of the safe custody receipt and inquire into Bank of Baroda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want me to give him the receipt?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But then how will we be able to get the certificates out? The receipt has to be presented when you want to withdraw from a safe custody...

Prabhupāda: No, give him the copy and let him explain to the bank manager that we want to check it.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And the Hindi Gītā is being composed. It will be ready by middle December, the latest. And also the Hindi Kṛṣṇa book is being composed, plus we have eight books in Gujarati which are in various stages of production. And the Tamil Gītā is being composed and printed, and we're doing a Gītā in Kanarese language, and also a Back to Godhead in Kanarese.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that enough stock? Ten thousand? Doesn't seem like a very big printing. Jayapatākā came there. His men came there, and they couldn't get any books.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they were out of stock... They didn't have that much when they leave.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It may happen again.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but now we have reprinted many new titles. In total we have fifty thousand books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not much. You have so much distribution. (they discuss softly)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Plus we are starting to construct a BBT godown. Surabhī Swami is working on that because now we are printing so many books, and also we have a big shipment of books from America that we definitely need a very huge godown in Bombay. Last time you had approved giving a loan of four lakhs for the godown.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Three lakhs. One lakh for printing, three lakhs for the godown.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (softly) No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You said that the godown would only cost three lakhs.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Three to four is the estimate. (to Prabhupāda:) So we are going to start work on the godown in November.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is the last...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I just see why? If I look at the book I can give you some information.

Prabhupāda: Not in the book. Yes, you can see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yesterday you took about 650 cc's to drink. You passed in urine about 450, plus you passed stool, another 150 to 200. So yesterday you passed almost as much as you drank, so there's nothing balance left today. Today you've taken about 100, 200 cc's to drink, and you've already passed over 100 of urine, so it's not very surprising that you're not passing much urine right now, 'cause you haven't drank very much.

Prabhupāda: So it depends on my drinking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, definitely. If you don't drink, then you won't pass urine.

Prabhupāda: Then I cannot drink. I am drinking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. As much as you're drinking, you're passing urine. As you're drinking, you're passing urine.

Prabhupāda: But I have no desire to drink even.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Then directly from Dum Dum to Māyāpur?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Then we go direct from Dum Dum to Māyāpur. We don't even have to go into Calcutta. Is that all right? So do you agree, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with the idea then, that the sooner we transfer there, the better, to Māyāpur? As far as the kavirāja goes, let us see if we get a local man from Calcutta, failing which, Smara-hari plus one other devotee will go to Śrī Raṅgam, and from a very reliable kavirāja, in their presence, they will have it made. Smara-hari, you see, is from Gurukṛpā and Yaśodā-nandana's party, so he has got experience sitting and watching people making the silver onto the throne. He knows how to sit and watch not to get cheated.

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is the man who would prepare, he must be experienced. That is wanted. And sincere. Then it will work, either you prepare there or here. When our men...? (devotees talk among themselves softly about who should go to Śrī Raṅgam)

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, in the meantime, some treatment should be there. In the meantime, before you get this makara-dhvaja, some treatment should be there.

Prabhupāda: What treatment?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we were thinking that this Vanamali Prabhu, he has made this medicine. So why not find out what is this medicine from him and you can take that in the meantime. He's made this medicine, Vanamali.

Prabhupāda: What is the benefit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, according to him, this is makara-dhvaja. I mean, I don't discount that this may be Makara-dhvaja. I am not rejecting it simply on the word of that Rāmānujī kavirāja who was here. Otherwise, then we simply wait for the makara-dhvaja.

Prabhupāda: That we'll do.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who will go with me?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your Divine Grace, Bhavānanda Mahārāja, myself, Bhakti-caru Mahārāja, Śatadhanya Mahārāja, Upendra Prabhu, Svarūpa Dāmodara, Bharadvāja. That'll be on the plane. Then in the train, Pradyumna, Arundhatī, some other devotees also. So eight of us will be going on the plane with you, seven plus Your Divine Grace, and you will have three seats. Altogether, we're purchasing ten seats. So I don't think there will be any difficulty. We're going in full team. Scientist is with us. In case of any special knowledge, Svarūpa Dāmodara will be there. Bhavānanda with his gun. (laughter) Full team. I think it will be a nice journey, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I hope.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So now you'll have your bath, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Light? (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...miserable condition. Without your mercy there is no possibility of escaping the degrading influence of this Kali-yuga. Most merciful lord and master of the devotees, we have no shelter other than your lotus feet. By Kṛṣṇa's grace the most wonderful Janmāṣṭamī celebration was held at the Cato Ridge farm āśrama in South Africa. The celebration included the opening of a new temple and prasādam facility." He sent a lot of pictures, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Amazing pictures.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And plus they're writing a letter to the Indian embassies abroad that if any ISKCON devotee applies, he should be given a three-year visa straight.

Prabhupāda: That will be nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But I was just speaking to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja that the GBCs, we should devise a policy so that this advantage is not misused. Because sometimes devotees just come over here, stay here for some time, do some nonsense and go back.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they may take away this permission.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should be very careful to choose the right people to come.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not just that anybody goes to an Embassy and they immediately get three years and they come here, they move around India, then in two weeks or two months they leave and go back. Then the government will not like it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And if some Americans find out that ISKCON had this special status, then someone can also pose as an ISKCON devotee and get this visa.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So we should require that they have GBC authorization and..., with the Embassy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. What we will do I think...

Prabhupāda: Our GBC should select. Not...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Or the GBC will communicate with India and then India will send a letter.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Guide them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They are simple people. That's the feeling I got today. So I'll pay him whatever he expended for coming here plus his airfare to go back to Calcutta. And probably I'll suggest that he leave tomorrow. He wanted to spend more time, but I told him that "Now you should do this business and don't delay now. This is not the time to take extra time. You can come back later on." Pisimā's son's name is Chandra? Hm. Bhakti-caru has his address. Is the diarrhea more or less stopped now?

Upendra: He hasn't...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Passed any stool?

Upendra: That one in the morning was only...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Little, little.

Upendra: Little, like Bhakti-caru said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So tonight, Śrīla Prabhupāda, tonight you have not passed anything. Then you try to take something, drinking something.

Prabhupāda: I'm drinking something.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not very much today.

Prabhupāda: How can I drink very much?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it's relative, I mean to say. Just like you can drink up to a thousand cc's in a day. Today probably there hasn't been so much. Today has been only about 300 that you drank. So I'm just saying that better to take it easy today. But by tonight, if everything is all right...

Prabhupāda: Means there will be stool.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And Śrīdhara Mahārāja could not finish. He has spent five, ten thousand, I think. Finished. In this way we shall serve Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhū... And the interest will come to charity. What is the interest of ten and a half lakhs?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's, every month... One of the... One of the interests for the five lakhs is 4,166 rupees, and the other is 4,666. So that's 8,800 say, times ten is 88,800, plus another sixteen. So about one lakh, five thousand per year.

Prabhupāda: That means twelve thousand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Per month you mean?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, per month, it would be about nine thousand rupees a month.

Prabhupāda: No, more.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda. One lakh, five thousand, divided by twelve—a little less than ten thousand a month.

Prabhupāda: So you can pay that ten thousand month? Huh? Bhavānanda?

Bhavānanda: Yes. Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is not that out of affection we shall squander money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mm.

Prabhupāda: So use your best intelligence and if he has not given then stop everything, let them have 250 per month per head and live in that house. That's all. This is my final.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two hundred fifty plus we have to fix seven hundred fifty.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For seven years.

Prabhupāda: That is after.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seven years.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is after.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Not now.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But how is that they did not come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is very strange. I must admit I'm very surprised, very, very surprised. I think the only possible answer to it can be that the work itself is difficult work, plus there must have been some other works that either the lawyer had to do or the notary had to do, and so it just could not... I mean after all, this was very, very quickly done. When we decided that we were going to go, it was only on Monday. That means yesterday morning that we decided that we were going to leave. So I mean from yesterday morning until tonight is practically not even... It's hardly enough time to do the legal work that we wanted to do. It was a real strain. Actually it would have been very surprising if we do get it done by tonight. That would be very surprising.

Prabhupāda: I don't think. It is past nine.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Plus the purports.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Text 29, text 28, text 27. It's one chapter of the Bhāgavatam.

Brahmānanda: Purports and the lectures.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's more books.

Brahmānanda: This is beautiful, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: This is another part?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look at this! Very high class. You want to lean back, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hand caught.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's a new book.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's called Preaching is the Essence.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They do not want anything. They want to assemble together and have some excursion.

Jagadīśa: No more than croaking frogs.

Akṣayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning, in the Bhāgavata class, we read a verse how Bali Mahārāja had been awarded all material opulences by the Lord—because of his devotion, not because of his puṇya. So I gave lecture to the devotees—in the same way Your Divine Grace, because of your devotion and preaching, Kṛṣṇa has given you every facility for propagating the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and although there are other nice movements in India, actually they should all join you. They should all surrender to you. We want that everyone should actually join us at your lotus feet because you have actually been given all śakti by Lord Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nahe tāra pravartana. So I told the devotees like this. "Do not be misled by others, even though they may be appearing to do nice work." Actually you are the only one who is really distributing the message of Lord Kṛṣṇa. This is very obvious by the result. These others have not made even one foreign disciple. And if they did make one, he could not give up smoking, drinking and this and that. So there is no benefit whatsoever. Any intelligent person can see. Plus you have given us so much nectar. Prahlāda Mahārāja says mahāmṛta. I always think of that verse. You have given us so much nectar to absorb our minds in. There is really no chance that we will be influenced by these dry personalities.

Prabhupāda: Now you take up seriously and distribute. (aside:) It has finished.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: Dollars. Every time he thinks about it, he adds fifty feet, and it goes up twenty million. So now all the distributors in the world, they were very eager to see the temple built, but at the present time it requires so much money at seventy million dollars and 450 feet that no one can think of even starting it for five years. But if the temple was 300 or 350 feet and twenty-five or thirty million dollars, which I don't think anyone—it would be the biggest building even in India and the biggest temple in the world—then it could be started immediately, feasibly. Four temples in America said that if they just get five women each, that means twenty women from the Society, then they could each pledge 25,000 rupees a month for..., in collection. That means $125,000. Plus BBT's $100,000 a month and Gurukṛpā, that would be enough immediately even in the coming year to start the construction of the temple, simply if Saurabha was asked to just make the temple on a thirty million dollar budget, which would be 350 feet or 300 feet. And this is really inspiring the book distributors to have this temple begun, and to complete it within your lifetime, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: My lifetime... (laughs) It is now very brief. At any moment I can...

Jayapatākā: We're all praying that Kṛṣṇa will give your strength back. (break) ...neophyte devotees. Without your inspiration, association, it'll be very difficult.

Prabhupāda: That Muhammadan, what is his name?

Jayapatākā: Which one?

Prabhupāda: Back side our...

Jayapatākā: Badusheik.

Prabhupāda: He is selling the land also?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is he selling?

Jayapatākā: Right now he's still asking four thousand rupees, but he seems to be weakening. But he hasn't come down yet in his price. He's not coming around so much because now they have to go regularly to the jail.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nearly ten thousand rupees a month.

Prabhupāda: Why ten thousand?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think it's quite ten thousand. I think it's less. Eight or nine thousand. Four rupees....

Prabhupāda: No. It is... Plus interest of the money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Plus interest of the... Of which money?

Prabhupāda: The deposit money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fixed deposit money. Well, of course, but that we would have gotten anywhere. But from the point of view of rent it is certainly very substantial rent. That was your scheme, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facility. Utilize it.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In this way, make it gorgeous.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm just thinking, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that each of these brāhmaṇas have their own style and method, and by bringing three different groups, it will be a..., you know, there may be some disagreement amongst them.

Prabhupāda: Go on like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who should be... They will adjust. Each one should have a head brāhmaṇa plus three other assistants.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Prabhupāda: Yaśodānandana should be head.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yaśodānandana should be the head. He better come back earlier. I heard that he's only coming back one or two days before the actual ceremony, to India. That doesn't seem like it's enough time.

Prabhupāda: Call one week early.