Earth, water, fire, air, sky, these five elements are gross material, everyone can see, gross. We can see earth, we can see water. We can see fire, air, or we can perceive the sky also. But there is subtle matter also. Mind, intelligence, ego. We cannot see the mind. We cannot see intelligence. I understand that you have got intelligence, or everyone knows we have got mind, but we cannot see. This is subtle. They are also matter, subtle matter. So the television is a machine made of gross matter, but there is possibility of making another machine of subtle matter. There is possibility. Because matter, they are also matter. That subtle matter machine is not yet discovered. But here we can see the subtle matter discovery was there. Otherwise, how Sañjaya could see the activities in the battlefield? This is to be understood. They are very much proud of material advancement of science, but still, they have to make advancement, subtle matter. And above that subtle matter, within that subtle matter, there is spiritual identity. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ, manasas tu parā buddhiḥ (BG 3.42).
Perceive (Lectures)
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Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
That we can understand. Therefore, the social order is... Just like Arjuna is describing here, saṅkaro narakāyaiva kula-ghnānāṁ kulasya ca (BG 1.41). Who knows this? Who knows this science, that saṅkaro narakāyaiva, if you produce unwanted hellish condition? Who is caring for that? The world is in hellish condition, we can perceive, but they are trying in a different way. They want to remain demons; at the same time, they want to become leaders. So at the present moment, comparing the social status 5000 years ago... According to Darwin's theory, 5000 years ago, men were uncivilized, uncivilized. Now this literature is written by uncivilized men. Just see. So highly intellectual writings, they were uncivilized. Now they have become civilized. That is Darwin's theory. We are now making progress. So Arjuna said that patanti pitaro hy eṣāṁ lupta-piṇḍodaka-kriyāḥ (BG 1.41). Piṇḍodaka. In Calcutta, there was a big scientist. His name was Sarpisirat. He was speaking in a, he was atheist number one, he was speaking that: "This piṇḍodaka, by offering piṇḍa, prasāda and water, it will go to my forefather.
Their basic principle of knowledge is on the bodily concept of life, pratyakṣa, experimental knowledge. Experimental knowledge means this gross sense perception. That is experimental. Pratyakṣa. Everyone says: "We do not see God." God is not such a subject matter that you can see with this pratyakṣa, direct perception. God's another name is Anubhāva. Anubhāva. Just like in this room we do not see the sun directly. But we know that there is sun. It is daytime. How do you know it? You do not see. But there are other processes by which you can experience. That is called aparokṣa. Pratyakṣa parokṣa aparokṣa. In this way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means adhokṣaja and aprakṛta, beyond the senses. Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said: adhokṣaja. Where direct perception cannot reach. So where direct perception cannot reach, then how you can perceive anubhāva? That is śrota-panthā. That is śruti. You have to take knowledge from the Vedas. And the Vedic knowledge is explained by guru. Therefore one has to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme guru, or His representative. Then all these troubles, means ignorance, can be dissipated. Yac chokam ucchoṣaṇam indriyāṇām (BG 2.8).
The distinction between cats and dogs... They are also living beings. Of course, in some quarter they say that the cats and dogs and lower animals, they have no soul. No. That is not the fact. Everyone has got soul, but the cats and dogs and animals, they are not advanced in consciousness. As soon as there is soul, there must be consciousness. These things are described in the Bhagavad-gītā, and you can perceive also. I am existing in this body; you are existing in your body—how it is known? By the consciousness. If I pinch your body, you feel pain. You pinch my body; I feel pain. Similarly, cats and dogs, they also feel pain or pleasure. So that is the proof of existence of the soul even in cats and dogs and human beings.
He maintains all others. That is the version. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān, tam ātma-sthaṁ ye 'nupaśyanti dhīrās teṣāṁ śāntiḥ śāśvatī netareṣām. This is the version from Kaṭhopaniṣad. Nityo nityānām. He's the supreme eternal amongst all the other eternals. Cetanaś cetanānām. He's the supreme living force amongst all other living forces. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. That one, singular number, eka, He is providing, maintaining, all other living entities. Tam ātma-stham. He is also in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Tam ātma-sthaṁ ye 'nupaśyanti dhīrāḥ. Anyone who can perceive His presence, dhīra, very highly learned or very gentle, dhīra... Dhīra means who is not disturbed. He's called dhīra. And there are others who are called adhīra. Adhīra means those who are disturbed. So those who are in the material world, they are always disturbed. And those who are on the spiritual platform, they are dhīra.
The first disturbance is sexual disturbance. So anyone, although he is completely potent with all the potencies, but still, he is not disturbed with sex impulses, he's called dhīra. Actually, that is called brahmacārī. Brahmacārī is not he is impotent. He can marry. He can beget children. But self-restrained. He's so self-restrained, that he's not disturbed. Unless he desires that "I shall have sex and for begetting children," he's not disturbed. That is called dhīra. Not by seeing any woman or man, one is disturbed. He's adhīra. She's adhīra. So dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau... The Gosvāmīs, they were equally respectable for the dhīras and the adhīras. So a, a spiritual master, a gosvāmī, should be equally merciful both for the dhīras and the adhīras. Otherwise, he cannot become a preacher. Preacher has to meet so many fallen souls. So he, if he becomes disturbed, then he cannot preach. Therefore dhīra. This word is here: anupaśyanti, tam ātma-sthaṁ ye anupaśyanti dhīra. He's called dhīra. Without being dhīra, you cannot perceive the presence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead within your heart, because the God is there in Paramātmā feature. But you have to become dhīra, without being disturbed. Then you can understand: "Here is Kṛṣṇa within my heart."
We cannot see even the spirit part. Our, our... We are very much proud of our senses, but our senses are so imperfect that... Now I see with my eyes, but I cannot see my eyelid. You see? The eyelid is always attached with my eye, but I cannot see. So our power of using the senses, that is very limited. So we should not depend only on the senses. Pratyakṣa. It is called pratyakṣa-anumāna. There are three kinds of evidences, pratyakṣa, anumāna, and aitihya. Pratyakṣa means that you can directly perceive. That is called pratyakṣa. And anumāna. Anumāna means you can conjecture, make an..., "It may be like this. It may be like this. Perhaps it is like this." This is called anumāna. And the other evidence is aitihya. Aitihya means to take evidences from the authority. So according... Out of these three evidences, this aitihya evidence, just like we are taking instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, sound, sound vibrated by the greatest personality, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, that sort of pramāṇa is acceptable. That is the best. This is the best way of acquiring knowledge. Because so far direct evidence is concerned, it is impossible. Because our senses are so imperfect, we cannot have anything. We can, we can have some direct experience of certain things, but not for all, especially for these spiritual things which is beyond our experience.
Similarly, this body, this is gross coat. Just like you, when you put on your dress, you have one underwear, shirt, and then over that shirt there is coat. It is very easy to understand, there is no difficulty. Similarly, the spirit soul is within this coat and shirt. What is this coat? This gross body. There are five..., eight material elements: earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, and ego. These are eight material elements. And out of these eight, gross elements we can see or perceive with your material senses. I can touch this earth; I can taste the water; I can smell the air; I can feel the sky; in this way. These are gross. And still there are finer elements, just like mind. Everyone of us knows that there is a mind, but we cannot see it. What is that mind? Everyone knows that there is intelligence, but nobody can see what is that intelligence. Similarly, everyone has his individuality, "I am this," "I am very learned," "I am very beautiful," "I am white," "I am black," "I am Indian," "I am American," this is called ego.
Just like we can feel there is fire when we feel heat or light. We don't see the fire directly but when we feel warm, we consider there must be fire. Or if there is heat, I mean there is light, that is fire. Similarly, we can experience the presence of the Lord by His different energies. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis yathaiva(?) akhilaṁ jagat, this whole material manifestation. Because we can see only material things, gross things, but we cannot see but we can perceive the finer materials. So the finer materials, the mind, intelligence, and egotism, and still finer is the soul. Try to understand. There is soul, but because we have got no vision to see, we think... The so-called scientists, philosophers, they are under conclusion that there is no soul, this is only body, that's all. This is the disease of this present material world. They are... They have no knowledge practically what is the basic principle of this life, and still they are passing on as scientists, philosophers, religionists, yogis, swamis, but they have no knowledge—clear conception of the soul—they have no knowledge.
The dimension of the soul is mentioned in the Vedas: keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). Just the tip of your hair you divide into one hundred parts, and again take that one-hundredth part and divide again into another hundred parts, that means one ten-thousandth part of the tip of hair is the length and breadth of the soul. So how you can see? You can simply perceive that there is soul, and it is confirmed by the authority of Vedas. And how the soul passing from one body to another, that also you can hear how it is passing. The example is given, just like this some good smell, flavor, is passing by the air and you smell, you feel, "Oh, very nice smell." But you cannot see the smell, neither the carrier of the smell. The carrier of the smell is the air, and the smell, it is still finer. But when it comes before your nose, the instrument, you understand that there is very nice flavor passing. You can experience, although you cannot see, you cannot touch, you cannot taste. So it is not that, that sometimes things which are beyond the test of our material senses, they are not existing. That is foolishness. We must accept that our senses are imperfect. So how we can understand everything by the test of experimental knowledge? No.
So the distinction between the living soul and the dead body—anyone can perceive. What is the distinction between a living body and the dead body? When a man is dead, he, his relatives cry, lament: "Oh, my father has gone," "My son has gone." But the father, as we have seen, he's lying on the floor. Where he has gone? He's lying on the floor. Why you are crying: "Oh, my father has gone away"? That means the person who has gone away, who has left this body, you have not, never seen. You have seen this body. So the body is lying there, and why you are crying, "My father has gone away"? So any intelligent man can understand that the real father, within the body, was a different thing. But our ignorance is so great that we accept this body, this dead body, as my father. This body is not only dead now, it was always dead. Because the living soul was there, within this dead body, it was moving. This is the fact. Just like a nice motorcar is running. But when the driver is not there, the motor is lying there, idle. If one identifies with the motorcar, the driver of the car, that is foolishness. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who is identifying this dead body, or this material body, which is a composition of tri-dhātuka, kapha-pitta-vāyu, some blood, flesh, and some secretion, and some bones—if anyone identifies the self with this lump of matter, then he is described as no better than cow and ass.
So the soul, the presence of soul is perceived by the consciousness. That consciousness... Just like the presence of sun, even I was blind, I could understand the sun is there because the sunlight and heat, I am experiencing. Without seeing the sun... When, as soon as I come to the sunshine, I feel light and heat; therefore immediately I can understand there is sun. It is not very difficult. Similarly just like we try to... When a man is dying, we try to feel whether the man is breathing, or he's feeling touch sensation. These are the tests. So the touch sensation is there so long the soul is there. Now I am living body. If somebody pinches my body, because the consciousness is all over the body, so I feel: "Somebody's pinching me." But when the conscious, consciousness is not there, if somebody chops up my body I will not protest. Therefore we should understand what is that living thing. That consciousness, which is spreading all over this body, that is living force. Kṛṣṇa says here: avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. Yena, by that consciousness. The consciousness is spread all over the body. So Kṛṣṇa says, "That consciousness is avināśi."
Jāgarti, when you are awakened, our consciousness is very acute, very strong. In sleeping stage, there is consciousness, but it is not so active. And unconscious stage means consciousness is some way or other subdued, not working. Three stages. So death means that unconsciousness for a long period. That is death. Because the soul is eternal. It will be explained. There is no birth and death. So when this body is annihilated, so the soul remains unconscious for a period, seven months for a human being. Seven months unconscious stage within the womb of the mother. After seven months, the consciousness revives. Just like if you have got an experience under chloroform, unconsciousness. The surgical operation takes place, you do not understand, you do not perceive pains and pleasure, but you remains for a certain hours unconscious. Then, gradually, dream comes. Just, from unconsciousness the dream comes. And from dream, you are awakened. As you go down from awakening stage to dream, dream to unconsciousness, similarly, you come up also, from unconsciousness to dream, from dream to awakening conscious stage.
So death means when this body is lost, gross body, the soul remains in the subtle body—intelligence, mind and ego. That subtle body carries him to another body. But those who are not intelligent, they do not understand what is the subtle body, although it is clearly said subtle body means mind, intelligence. You have got mind, intelligence, everyone knows. But these rascals, because they cannot see mind and intelligence, they think that this man is gone, dead. Mind, intelligence, everyone knows that he has got mind. I know you have got your mind, I have got my mind, you have got intelligence, I have got intelligence. But I do not see your intelligence; it is subtle. Just like there is sky, but here is sky in my front, but I do not see. The things, as they become more subtle and subtler, these gross senses cannot experience. Therefore, the soul is so subtle that it is not possible to perceive the presence of soul with these material senses. So these rascals, they simply say, "No, I cannot see soul." How can you see? That is not possible? It is so minute and so subtle that it cannot be seen by this gross eye. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet.
So everything can be replaced materially by scientific improvement. But when that things which is immortal, that is gone, it cannot be replaced. Even nowadays the heart is being replaced, but no medical science or any science has ever been able to replace the life. So he's giving the example that that presence of the soul is perceived by consciousness. So the flesh is there, the bone is there, the blood is also there, but when the consciousness is not there, that means it is finished. Because the consciousness is there, therefore any part of the body, if we pinch, we can feel pains and pleasure. And when the consciousness is not there, when the man is dead, the flesh is there, the blood is there and other ingredients are there, but there is no more life because it is useless now. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. The tatam means spread. The consciousness is spread. If we pinch in this part, by consciousness you'll feel pain, or this part or any part of the body, because the consciousness is there, you feel pains and pleasure.
So you study these material things, a small grain of poison or the sun, how much powerful they are. A small grain of poison immediately can finish the body, and the small disk, although it is not small... It looks... We can see. The sun globe is spreading the light and heat all over the universe. Similarly, the potency of the soul is so powerful that it is maintaining the whole body. Similarly, the potency of God is maintaining the whole universe. Just like on account of the presence of the soul the body is maintained, similarly, on account of presence of God the whole universe or the cosmic manifestation is maintained. As I am, a small particle of spiritual identity, I am maintaining this body so sound and healthy, similarly, the presence of the Supreme Soul Kṛṣṇa, or God, is maintaining the whole material cosmic manifestation. Every one of us can perceive the presence of the soul and presence of God.
So we take it for granted. Our facility is, because we accept the Vedas as authority, therefore the knowledge is there, ready. If somebody asks me or you, "Can you say how many forms of living entities are there within the water?" it is very difficult. Even the biologists cannot say. Although they are very expert. I cannot say. But our facilities, we can immediately say, there are nine hundred thousand. Although I have never experimented, neither seen personally, but because it is explained in the Vedic literature, I can say you correctly. Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said that you want to see or perceive directly anything... Just like so many rascals come, they challenge, "Can you show me God?" So... Yes. We can show you God, provided you have got the eyes. God can be seen by different type of eyes. Not these eyes. That is stated in the śāstra. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). Indriya means these senses, these material senses. With these material senses, you cannot experience directly what is the form of the Lord, what is His quality, what does He do. So many things we want to know about the Supreme. But śāstra describes the qualities of the Lord, the form of the Lord, the activities of the Lord. You can learn. Śāstra-yonitvāt. Yoni means source, source. Śāstra-yonitvāt. Śāstra-cakṣus. Your eyes should be the śāstra. Not these blunt eyes. Everything we also experience by śāstra, by book.
So the soul is in the heart and Kṛṣṇa is also in the heart. Because they remain both together. So place is also located. You can perceive also by consciousness where there is presentation of soul, but if you want to measure by experiment, that is not possible. Therefore it is called aprameya. Prameya means direct perception. I can see or I can touch, I can handle. So that is... Kṛṣṇa says no, it is not possible. Aprameya. Then, how I shall accept? Now Kṛṣṇa says. So how I can believe Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says ukta, it is already settled up by authorities. Ukta. This is paramparā system. Kṛṣṇa also says ukta. Kṛṣṇa does not say that "I speak," no. Ukta, there is Vedic evidence. Where it is? In the Upaniṣads there is. Just like,
- bālāgra-śata-bhāgasya
- śatadhā kalpitasya ca
- bhāgo jīvaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ
- sa cānantyāya kalpate
It is in the Upaniṣad, Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad. This is called Vedic evidence. In another, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there is evidence.
This is, therefore it is called inconceivable, acintya. With our teeny brain, we cannot accommodate how it is one and different. Therefore it is called acintya. Acintya-bhedābheda: different and separate, simultaneously. Everything. Idaṁ hi viśvo bhagavān ivetaraḥ. The whole world is Bhagavān, but it appears different from Bhagavān. So how? To a mahā-bhāgavata, who understands actually what is Bhagavān, he does not see any difference. Because he, everywhere he sees his worshipable Deity, Kṛṣṇa. He does not see anything. I am seeing a tree, but a devotee is seeing tree: "Oh, it is the energy of Kṛṣṇa." Immediately he remembers Kṛṣṇa and worships Him. So this is higher stage of realization of God, how the inconceivable things, simultaneously one and different, can be perceived. Therefore, there are three stages of devotional life, kaniṣṭhādhikārī, madhyamādhikārī, and uttamādhikārī. So to become uttamādhikārī, it is not so easy, but we are generally in the kaniṣṭhādhikārī. But we shall try to come to the madhyamādhikārī. Then our life will be successful.
So our enjoyment can be perfect, our enjoyment can be perfected when we participate the enjoyment of God. Because He is the enjoyer. So the more we become engaged in... (break) ...the enjoyment of the Supreme Lord, the more enjoyment we... That is the... Separately we cannot enjoy. We have to cooperate. We have to cooperate with the supreme enjoyer; then our sense of enjoyment will be complete. Just like... Another example. Just like this body. This body is the whole. Now, body has got many parts: the hands, the legs, the eyes, the ears, the head, so many things. But these parts of the body, they cannot enjoy separately out of the body. This hand, cut off from this body, is useless. There is no enjoyment. But a hand, so long attached to this body, it has got all the enjoyment of sense, touch. Touch sensation, the enjoyment of the hand can be perceived when the hand is attached with the body. If the body... If the hand is cut off from this body, then the special enjoyment of this hand, touch, it cannot be perceived. (break) (end)
This is the symptom of this age. Yaśaḥ arthe. I want to associate with some organization, spiritual, just for the sake of name: "Oh, I am attached to that, such big organization." But, so far my life is concerned, it is as it is. As it is. I have seen that... I don't wish to name that particular... In some yoga institute, I have seen the members, they come. They hear, and they are hearing and coming for the last ten years. But unfortunately, they have not learned even the preliminary instruction of yoga. Yoga... Yoga... The whole process of yoga means indriya-saṁyama, controlling the senses. Controlling the senses. But I have seen. They have no control over senses. The whole yoga process means controlling the senses, nothing more. The haṭha-yoga means by different practice of āsana, posture or sitting posture or breathing posture... All these means concentrating myself, focusing my attention to the Supersoul. And because our mind is disturbed, because our mind is distributed in so many engagements, therefore the yogic process is a mechanical process by which we can, I mean to say, drag the mind from outside engagement to inner side and focus the same for perceiving or for realizing the Supersoul.
You have to learn that thing only. No more we have to say that there is no God. We may say there is no God, but that does not mean that there is no God. You see? Just like an upstart. He says that "I don't believe in the government. There is no government. I am all in all." So that madman say like that, that does not mean that there is no existence of government. He is a madman who says like that. So that sort of, I mean to say, madness, we should give up. We should be submissive.
There is God. The only example—several times I have cited—that existence of God can be perceived with very simple... What is that? Just like you can perceive your existence in this body by the consciousness... You have got consciousness. That point we have discussed several times. That consciousness is the symptom of your existence in this body. So long that consciousness is there, this bodily function is going on very nicely.
Now, you are eating. You do not know how your foodstuff is going to the stomach, how it is being transformed into different kinds of secretion, how it is being transferred from the stomach to the heart, how that secretion becoming red, and that red blood is again circulated from the brain to the toe.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purport: "There are three degrees of covering of the pure living entity, and thereby the pure consciousness of the living entity, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is embarrassed by nonmanifestation. This covering is but lust under different manifestations, like smoke in the fire, dust on the mirror, and the womb about the embryo. When lust is compared to smoke, it is understood that the fire of the living spark can be a little perceived. In other words, when the living entity exhibits his Kṛṣṇa consciousness slightly, he may be likened to the fire covered by smoke. Although fire is necessary when there is smoke, there is no overt manifestation of fire in the early stage. This stage can be compared with the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The comparison of the dust of the mirror refers to the cleansing process of the mirror of the mind by so many spiritual methods. The best process is to chant the holy names of the Lord. The comparison of the embryo being covered by the womb is an analogy illustrating the most awkward position, for the child in the womb is so helpless that it cannot even move. This stage of living condition can be compared also to the trees. The trees are living entities, but they have been put into that condition of life by such a great exhibition of lust that they are almost devoid of all consciousness."
Prabhupāda: Yes, these trees... We should know that the trees, they are also living entities, but they have been put in such awkward position that they are standing up in a position for thousands of years. They cannot move even. If somebody is cutting, it cannot protest. They have been put into such conditional life. If somebody is coming to do some harm, they cannot go away. So the most abominable condition of life is the trees. Go on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The covered mirror is compared to the birds and beasts, and smoke-covered fire is compared to the human being."
Prabhupāda: Yes. The birds and beasts, they can move. They can protect themselves from somebody who is coming to harm, but still, they have no knowledge. The same... A little better than the trees. Go on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "In the form of a human being, the living entity can perceive a little Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and if he makes further development the fire of spiritual life can be kindled in the human form. By careful handling of the smoke in the fire, the fire can be made to blaze."
Prabhupāda: Yes. When the fire is covered by the smoke, if you little fan over it, then immediately there is blazing fire; immediately smoke is gone. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, in every living entity, especially human being, there is, even in the aborigines, those who are called uncivilized. They are also offering some respect to the seas, to the thunderbolt, to a big mountain. Something wonderful, they offer. They bow down. That means there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so, just like a fire covered with smoke. Now, if you fan it, if you just try to eradicate the smoke, the fire will come out.
Prabhupāda: Then how you distinguish pure?
Guest: The object of perception is...
Prabhupāda: What is that object of perception that is pure?
Guest: The perceiver and the object perceived would be one.
Prabhupāda: What is that object? Give me tangible example.
Guest: In relative existence it would be that which exists and...
Prabhupāda: What is that relative? Relative means there must be something absolute. When you speak of relative... Just like you are son, relative. Immediately the conception of father must be there otherwise how it is relative? So as soon as you say relative, what is the absolute?
Guest: The absolute is... I can't say
Prabhupāda: Then you have no conception of the absolute. You cannot explain.
The same example. Just like the fire has got two energies, heat and light. So whenever there is heat, there must be fire. And whenever there is light, there must be fire. You cannot say that "Heat is here, light is here, but fire is not here." No, that you cannot say. As soon as even smoke is there, the fire is there. Even the smoke. This māyā, external energy, is considered as the smoke of the fire. But in the smoke also, you can perceive fire. And in the light also, you can perceive fire. In heat also, you can perceive fire. There are three things smoke, light, and heat—from fire. So one who is realized soul, he sees everywhere the connection of fire. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. He can see. This is advancement.
Just like we are offering Kṛṣṇa something prepared. So how it becomes prasādam? Others will see that "The same ḍāl, bhāta, luci or halavā, we are also preparing. How these people are calling it prasādam? And why they take with so respect?" Prasādam, that is also Kṛṣṇa. That is also.... This is the process to understand, as I have already said. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). For the neophytes, by taking prasādam, by thinking the taste of water, Kṛṣṇa, he will gradually develop his Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is dormant. It is not artificial. Simply by certain process it has to be awakened. It is not something foreign.
Pradyumna: "The yoga system conceived by Patañjali is referred to herein. In the Yoga-sūtra of Patañjali, the soul is called pratyag-ātmā and parāg-ātmā. As long as the soul is attached to sense enjoyment, it is called parāg-ātmā. The soul is subjected to the functions of ten kinds of air at work within the body, and this is perceived through the breathing system. The Patañjali system of yoga instructs one on how to control the functions of the body's air in a technical manner so that ultimately all the functions of the air within become favorable for purifying the soul of material affection. According to this yoga system, pratyag-ātmā is the ultimate goal. This pratyag-ātmā is a withdrawal from activities in matter. The senses interact with the sense objects, like the ear for hearing, eyes for seeing, nose for smelling, tongue for tasting, hand for touching, and all of them are thus engaged in activities outside the self. They are called the functions of the prāṇa-vāyu. The apāna-vāyu goes downwards, vyāna-vāyu acts to shrink and expand, samāna-vāyu adjusts equilibrium, udāna-vāyu goes upwards—and when one is enlightened, one engages all these in searching for self-realization."
Prabhupāda:
- sarvāṇīndriya-karmāṇi
- prāṇa-karmāṇi cāpare
- ātma-saṁyama-yogāgnau
- juhvati jñāna-dīpite
- (BG 4.27)
When one is enlightened, jñāna-dīpite, the light of knowledge is awakened, then ātma-saṁyama-yogāgnau, controlling the senses and offering in the fire of yoga. So the Patañjali system is explained in the purport that controlling the inner different kinds of, five kinds of, prāṇa-apāna-vāyu. That is a mechanical system. That is approved also. That helps controlling the senses. But there is another process that is called this bhakti-yoga system, that not only controlling the senses but to give engagement to the senses.
He is in the (indistinct) You are very intelligent. This Supersoul is also partial representation of Kṛṣṇa. Just like the sun, the real sun, and the reflection of sun. If you have got thousands of pots in your presence, you will find the reflection of the sun in thousands of the pots, but the real sun is one. Similarly, this Supersoul is the reflection of the reality, partial reflection of the Supreme. Is it clear? Just like you are standing here, and at noon the sun is on your head, and five thousand miles away you inquire from somebody, "Where is sun?" He will say, "Oh, it is on my head." Five thousand miles this way or that way, any way you inquire, many, many people, many thousands of people you inquire, they will say, everyone will say that "The sun is on my head." Similarly, although the sun is one, as he is perceived that he is present on everyone's head, similarly, although Kṛṣṇa is one without a second, by inconceivable transcendental power He can be present in everyone's heart. Akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is the power of Kṛṣṇa. That is the power of Supersoul. We cannot. Suppose I am sitting here, you are sitting here. You are not at your home. I am not in India, I am sitting here. I cannot see simultaneously in India and America. That is not possible, because I am not Supersoul. But the Supersoul can be present everywhere. You will find this explanation in the Thirteenth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā. Now we are discussing the Fourth Chapter. When you go to the Thirteenth Chapter, this point will be more clearly explained.
You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā that happiness, happiness perceived by the senses, is beyond these material senses. And in the Nārada-bhakti-sūtra also you'll find that hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When our senses are freed from all designation... Just like due to fever, I am feeling some extra sensation in my hand. That is a designation. When that designation is freed, then I come to my normal state. Similarly, at the present moment, due to this covering of material body, I have got different designative sensation, designative sensation. I am feeling I am, I am just using my senses under some designation. So we have to get free from this designation. That is the whole spiritual process. You haven't got to kill your senses. That will help you when you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
You cannot love sky. That is not possible. If I say, "You love sky," you'll say, "How to love sky? I want a tangible thing. I want a boy, I want a girl, then I can love. How I can love sky?" So simply understanding of greatness is not all. Then from the development of the, from the idea of sky, there is, next development is air. In the air you can perceive something. When the air is blowing you can at least have some touch sensation. So as in the material world from the sky develops the air, from air develops the fire, electricity, and from electricity or fire develops the water, and from water develops this land... When it comes to the land you can understand something very tangible. Similarly, greatness of God has to be developed how? From greatness of God, the idea of greatness, the sense of service must develop. God is so great, so I must render some service to God. This sense of service is further development. Just like from the sky the air develops, similarly, from the idea of greatness of God the sense of service develops. Because I am serving somebody great, I go to some office because he provides me. The proprietor gives me some salary; therefore he is greater than me. I render service in exchange of something given by him.
So Vaiṣṇava philosophy says that this is also sinful. Why sinful? Because you have to take your birth to receive that compound interest. That is sinful. Now suppose you are born in a very rich family. The trouble of being in the womb of the mother, that is the same. Either you are pious man or the impious man, when you are in the womb of your mother the difficulties and the pains perceived within the womb of the mother is the same, either you are black or white, either you are Indian or American or cat or dog or anyone. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). The troubles of birth, the troubles of death, and the troubles of disease, and the troubles of old age are everywhere the same. It is not that because you are born in a very rich family, you'll be immune from diseases. It is not that you'll not become old. It is not that you'll be saved from the troubles of birth or you'll be saved from the troubles of death.
So in this way you have to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, not superficially. Even superficially you understand, even you do not understand, if you accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme, then either you read Vedas or not Vedas, the same thing, because you have come to the conclusion. Suppose if there is fire. So the fire burns. So if you come to fire, if you have felt the heat and light, then either you know chemically what is fire, wherefrom it is coming... You know or may not know, but because you have come to the fire, the action of the fire will be perceived by you. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says either you are very learned scholar or not, whatever you may be, if you simply concentrate your mind and attachment for Kṛṣṇa... Mayy āsakta-manāḥ. Āsakta means attachment. And mind, manas means mind.
Their body is fiery body. That's all. Just like our body in this planet is earthly body, their body is fiery. Out of the five elements, the fire element is very prominent in the sun planet. But there are living entities. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), "First of all, I said this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the sun-god"? If there is no living entity, how Kṛṣṇa says there is a sun-god? And if we are to believe Kṛṣṇa and the Bhagavad-gītā, we have to accept it that the sun globe is not without living entities. It is also the same, just like we have got hundred of thousands, millions of living entities here. So in this way, we have to acquire the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. That is brahma-jñāna, paramātma-jñāna, and bhagavat-tattva-jñāna. And when we realize... Not only hear theoretically, jñānam... That is... Theoretical knowledge is jñānam. But sa-vijñānam, when we actually perceive, when we actually understand what is the position of the Personality of Godhead, that is called vijñānam. Jñānaṁ sa-vijñānam. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ (BG 7.2). Aśeṣataḥ, descriptive, not summarized.
Actually, we cannot see spirit. Spirit soul even we cannot see. The modern advancement of science, they cannot see even the particle of the spirit. They have no power. Just like I am, you are, we are all spirit souls. We are in this body, but the medical science after dissection of the body cannot find out where is the spirit soul. But there is. That's a fact. But you have no instrument or power to see it. In spite of your advancement of so many scientific instruments, you cannot see. Therefore in the śāstra it is said, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). Our, these senses are so imperfect that we cannot perceive even what is spirit soul. We cannot see. That's a fact. And we cannot... It is very difficult to perceive also. But you can see also, you can perceive also, by accepting a certain method.
So Kṛṣṇa is advising simply by increasing your attachment for Kṛṣṇa, we can be eligible to understand the whole knowledge, complete knowledge, without any doubt. By our mental speculation we acquire knowledge, but there are so many doubts. So many doubts. In the Ninth Chapter also, in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyam. Pratyakṣa. Kṛṣṇa consciousness knowledge is so perfect that pratyakṣa avagamam, you can directly perceive how far you are making progress. You don't require to take certificate from others, whether you are progressing or not. You'll understand, yourself. The example is given. Just like a hungry man is eating, so as he going on, eating, he's getting strength and his hunger is being satisfied. So he can understand himself. Nobody requires to certify, "Now you are satisfied," or "Now..." Similarly bhakti, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is so perfect that pratyakṣa avagamam, one can understand directly. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). This is the test of bhakti-mārga.
The yogic process is to see Nārāyaṇa within the heart. Similarly, you can hear also Nārāyaṇa by this transcendental vibration. He can be perceived, because we have got senses, different senses. We can see, and we can hear also. Because the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Absolute Truth, by any of your senses, either by seeing or by hearing, it is the same thing. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ. Rasa-vigrahaḥ. Nāma, this name, holy name of Kṛṣṇa or holy name of Rāma, they are rasa-vigrahaḥ, transcendental blissful form. That is also... Vigraha means form. That form is understood through the ear, and it goes to the heart. In this way we can perceive Nārāyaṇa by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. It requires little practice, as they are enunciated in the śāstras and directed by the spiritual master. Then one can understand, or one can see. Just like, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiv hṛdayeṣu viloka, the same thing hṛdayeṣu. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati. Similarly, the same thing is stated there in the Vedic literature. Bhagavad-gītā is also Vedic literature, Brahma-saṁhitā. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. Same, the same thing hṛdā.
This is material things. What is this air, what is this sky, what is this mind, what is this intelligence, what is this ego, and what is the soul. In this way you understand everything, because these material elements—earth, water, fire, air, sky—that will be explained in the next verse, it is the expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy. As there are energies and the energetic, just like the fire. The fire has got two energies. One energy is the heat, and one energy is light. Just like in the morning, as soon as you see the light from you window, you can understand that there is sunrise. By the energy, light of the sun, you can understand there is now the sun on the sky. Heat also. When you are too much heated, even within the room, even if you do not see the sun, you can understand that this heat is due to the sun. Similarly, we have to understand the presence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead by perceiving the different energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. At the present moment we are trying to understand the energy of Kṛṣṇa. We cannot see directly Kṛṣṇa. But as soon as you see the energy or you perceive the energy, you can understand there is Kṛṣṇa, there is God. That is called intelligence. This is called jñānam. And when you are directly in connection with Kṛṣṇa, or directly in the service, that is called vijñānam.
Because in this material world, the enjoyment, the highest enjoyment one can perceive, that is sex. Therefore in the material world those who are materialists, they are trying to exact happiness simply by that sex life. You'll find so many pictures, naked pictures, this picture, that picture. Why? Because they have no other information of happiness. That is the happiness. They have no other information. In many places this sex enjoyment is duplicated. In another place it is stated, yan-maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). The gṛhamedhi, the so-called family men, they are working hard and so hard. Why? Because they have got that point of happiness, sex happiness. That's all. Another poet, he's singing, a Vaiṣṇava poet,
- śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa
- ei dina jāminī jāgi re
- biphale sevinu kṛpaṇa durajana
- capala sukha labha lāgi' re
Śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa. Now, those who are working, oh, they have no consideration that there is snowfall or there is scorching heat. Śīta ātapa, bāta, severe cold, and bariṣaṇa means heavy torrents of rain. Oh, he has to go to the office and work. Śīta ātapa, bāta bariṣaṇa, ei dina jāminī jāgi' re. Night duty. These are severe type of laboring. And the poet says, śīta ātapa, bāta bariṣaṇa, ei dina jāminī jāgi re. Why? Now, biphale sevinu, kṛpaṇa durajana, capala sukha labha lāgi' re. For that momentary happiness I am working so hard.
So these energies, the external energy, Kṛṣṇa says, they are separated. Separated means you cannot perceive Kṛṣṇa directly from this energy. All materialistic scientists, they cannot understand that earth is also Kṛṣṇa's energy, water is also Kṛṣṇa's energy, fire is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. But they are energy, that they can understand. They are accepting... The scientists, they are accepting that these are different energies, but whose energy, that they do not know. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is explaining herewith that "It is My energy, separated energy." If we analytically study how water can be energy of Kṛṣṇa... We should study Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's energies very intelligently. Wherefrom this vast water of ocean came into existence? But we can understand from Bhagavad-gītā that this vast water has come from Kṛṣṇa's energy. Now, try to understand how Kṛṣṇa's energy can produce so large amount of water.
It is separated because in this material world you cannot directly perceive the presence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ. "I am not present there. Although it is coming from My energy, still, I am not present there." This is simultaneously-one-and-different philosophy.
So Kṛṣṇa says that ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭa... Everything is finer. Just like the earth is grosser than the water. Water, finer. Earth you cannot move, but water can move. Therefore it is finer. And finer than the earth is the fire, and finer than the fire is air, and finer than the air is ether, and finer than the ether is the mind, and finer than the mind is intelligence, and finer than intelligence is my identity, ahaṅkāra. And finer than the ahaṅkāra is the soul. You have to study soul—finer, finer, finer, finer, finer. It is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā in another place that indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ, manasas tu parā buddhiḥ... (BG 3.42). In this, say, finer, finer. And the soul is very small magnitude finer.
So medical science, they also know. They take care of the heart. When the heart stops, then everything stops. That means when the ātmā goes out of the heart, it has no meaning. So in the small scale the whole construction of this body is dependent on that ātmā. So this is the example, that the ātmā is so small, one ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair. Because that small particle is there within this body, therefore it is so beautiful, it is nicely working, the brain is working. Everything is there. Scientists, they are finding out, trying to find out what is the living force. Sometimes they are catching the blood; sometimes they are catching the cells, or this, or that... But failure. Because they could not capture the ātmā. But ātmā is so small. It is not possible. Even you cannot see where it is. But it is perceived that there is something within this body, living force generally they call it. Therefore the body's working. So... And the... It is spread all over the body.
So His energy is working even in the water. You can perceive His energy within the water. We are daily using water. We are tasting water. So you can perceive Kṛṣṇa's presence, Kṛṣṇa's all-pervasiveness, even while you drink water. Every one of us, we drink water. And... So the taste of the water, Kṛṣṇa says, "Here I am." This is impersonal feature, but the person is behind. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ (BG 9.10). Water is one of the products of this material nature, but behind this existence of water is Kṛṣṇa. Then you can understand Kṛṣṇa. You try to understand by studying His energy. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is describing that "Although you cannot see Me just now..." Because in the preliminary stage nobody can see Kṛṣṇa, although Kṛṣṇa is present everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). He is present within the atom. But it requires the qualified eyes to see Him or purified senses to perceive Him.
So it is very difficult for us to understand Kṛṣṇa. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. I have already explained. Therefore we have to take advantage of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And wherever there is a chance of hearing about Kṛṣṇa, we should take the opportunity. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And learn from the... It is not our manufacture. Kṛṣṇa says. Learn how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Simply you try to understand Kṛṣṇa in every step of life. In every step of life. They will be all explained in this chapter, how you can perceive Kṛṣṇa. The beginning is tasting. Everyone drinks water or drinks something else. So try to taste the liquid, thinking that "This taste is Kṛṣṇa." You see in the morning the light of sunshine: "Here is Kṛṣṇa." In the evening you see the moonlight: "Here is Kṛṣṇa." There is sound always, especially in a city like Bombay. It is full of sound. So whenever you hear any kind of sound—sound is the vibration of the sky—you remember: "This sound is Kṛṣṇa." Śabdaḥ khe. And whenever you meet any person very exalted, very extraordinarily able, you understand that "This ability is Kṛṣṇa's mercy, vibhūti."
So here you get the information that paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). Bhāvaḥ means the nature, another nature. Just like you have got experience of this material nature, similarly, there is another, spiritual nature. Just like the material nature and spiritual nature you have got experience here also. What is that? Just like you are yourself combination of material and spiritual. You are yourself spirit. So long you are within this body, within this matter, it is moving. And as long, as soon as you are out of this body, it is as good as stone. So as you can perceive here, within yourself, what is matter and what is spirit, similarly, there is spiritual world also. The two natures are there, as you can experience two natures here, the material nature and spiritual nature. This we have discussed in the Seventh Chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, er, Bhagavad-gītā. The spiritual nature is called superior nature, and this material nature is called inferior nature. So this material nature, beyond this material nature, there is spirit, superior nature, spiritual nature. This information we have got.
Now, here it is said that avyaktaḥ akṣaraḥ: "That nonmanifested, spiritual atmosphere is nonmanifested." But how it can be manifested? We have little feeling of it, but how it can be manifested? Yes. It can be manifested. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which we are preaching. In the Vedic literature it is said that ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). Indriya means the senses. We perceive or we get knowledge through the instruments of different senses—eyes, ear, or smelling, tongue, touch. These are our five sense for gathering knowledge. And there are five senses for working. So we have got ten senses. And the ten senses are being conducted by the mind. So ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ.
So although we cannot perceive the transcendental nature of the Supreme Lord, His name, His fame... Simply by speculating that what is the name of God, he cannot understand what is the name of God. Simply by speculating what is the form of God, it is not possible to understand. But as soon as you become situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). If you engage yourself in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness business, then gradually God will reveal Himself before you. Oh, you cannot see God by your own endeavor. But if you qualify yourself, God will reveal Himself and you'll see Him. This is the process. You cannot order, "O God, please come before me and dance before me." No. He cannot be order-supplier. But you have to do in such a way that He'll be pleased to reveal Himself before you and you'll see Him fully.
These boys, these American, European, they are all Western country, belong to the Western country. Why they are sticking to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Because they are feeling directly happiness. There is no doubt about it. Ask any one of them. This is pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. And susukham. To execute this dharma, this transaction, it is very, very happy. Don't you see? What is their business? They are not going to the factories to work twelve hours. They are simply chanting and dancing. This is their business. And when they are hungry, they are taking very nutritious prasādam. This is called susukham. Very happy. They haven't got to work in the factory, in the mine, in the sea for extracting oil or coal. They haven't got. We have no such business. We are simply engaged in chanting, dancing, and eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Susukham. Pratyakṣāvagamam. Practically you can perceive. And how happy it is, you can perceive. Kartum avyayam. To execute this business of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so easy and happy and whatever you do, a little, it is your permanent asset. It will never be spoiled.
Something you cannot see, you can hear only. Just like the, when the air, wind passes very violently, you cannot see, but you can hear. But you get the experience. So seeing is not only experience, but hearing is also experience. When you hear the sound of the wind, "Ohnnhnn Shaah Shaah," you say, "Oh, today wind is very violently blowing." You can feel, but you don't see the air. So don't stress on seeing only. There are so many senses. You hear. We can perceive the presence of God, or Kṛṣṇa, by hearing. By hearing. And He's there, present. He's there, present. He says, Kṛṣṇa says, that
- nāhaṁ tiṣṭhāmi vaikuṇṭhe
- yogināṁ vā hṛdaye ca
- yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktā
- tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada
He says that "I, I am not actually in My abode, Kṛṣṇaloka; neither I am in the heart of the yogis who are meditating. But I am present in there where My pure devotees are singing, singing." Yes, Kṛṣṇa says that.
So this speculating process will also not help. Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12). Vicetasaḥ means they are bewildered, that God cannot be perceived by your own endeavor unless God reveals before you. Vicetasaḥ. Vicetasaḥ means bewildered. Just like if you want to see the sun, can you see the sun just at this time, all over darkness? Have you got any machine or any apparatus or any searchlight, you can show me sun? No. It is not possible. So if you cannot see at night with your own endeavor even a material thing like sun, do you think that by your own endeavor you will see God? How it is possible? As the sun reveals in the morning at five o'clock or six o'clock, similarly, when the sun Kṛṣṇa will reveal before you, then you will understand. You cannot find out Kṛṣṇa or understand Kṛṣṇa by your own endeavor. Now, that process is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66).
Just act in such a way that God will see you." Just try to understand. This is very nice. If I want to see God, and I make God as my order-supplier, that "Please come and I'll see You." So God is not so small that He, at once I call Him and He'll come. No. We have to qualify ourselves. We have to qualify ourselves. Therefore by the qualification, by your qualification, God will Himself come and see you.
There are many instances. God is... Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja, he went to the forest to undergo severe penances to see God. So when he was, God saw him or when he saw God, then God asked him, "What do you want? What benediction you want? I shall give you." The Dhruva Mahārāja, a small boy, five years old, he said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). "Now I am so satisfied that I have nothing to ask from You." So one who sees, one who can perceive God, he has no more any demand because he's transcendental to all these material demands.
I am seeing you, your hands and legs and head, but I am actually not seeing you. You are seeing me, you are seeing my hands and legs, but you are not seeing me. So even the particles of spirit soul, the part and parcel of God, we cannot see. How we can see God? Even a small particle, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). All living entities are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like if even a drop of ocean water we cannot recognize, how we can recognize the ocean? Similarly, we living entities, we are simply small particle of the spirit soul, Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). So we cannot see. No medical man has ever seen what is that soul, although they are perceiving there is soul. Now medical men, cardiologists, they are accepting, "Yes, there is soul." But we cannot see.
Therefore the devotee gradually realizing that, "Yes, I am offering this flower directly to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I am offering the food directly to the Supreme Personality of Godhead." He is eating. He is perceiving. He is taking the prasādam. He's advancing. He's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. It is self-evident. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. This devotional service is directly appreciated. You haven't got to take certificate from others. If you be engaged in devotional service, you actually realize. Therefore it is called pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. Other things will remain in theoretical, but this is such a nice thing, devotional service, that you directly understand how much you are making progress, how much you have appreciated God, how much you have understood Kṛṣṇa. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ su-sukham. Su-sukham.
And also there is no trouble. Very easily and very happily it is performed. Just like the devotional service.
So the same tattva, in truth, not superficially, if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, you'll not have to accept another material body. That is saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. That is highest perfection of life. If you don't accept anymore the material form of body...
There are eight million four hundred thousand species of body. Any type of body we accept, it is troublesome. It is miserable. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). The bodily pains and pleasures are perceivable, mātrā-sparśa, because we have got this material skin, mātrā, and when it is touched, in touch with the influence of this material world, mātrā-sparśāḥ, you become subject of pains and pleasures.
But if you don't have this material body, then you are untouched by the material qualities, you are completely in spiritual body, so there is no question of pains and pleasure. It is simply blissful life.
But this car, next car, is not ready, but it will have to be manufactured. How? You have to enter into the particular type of mother, and the mother's material ingredients will help you to manufacture a particular type of car, or body. The body is also a car, a machine. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). Yantra. It has been said as yantra, a machine. This is just like machine. And we can perceive that. As soon as some part of the machine is slackened or not in order, that is your diseased condition. You cannot work.
They do not know even that there is birth after death. Such a foolish civilization. Although we are experiencing every moment birth and death... Birth and death every moment, it is going on so finely. It is Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Just like this world, this earthly planet, is moving at the rate of one thousand miles per hour. Such a gigantic body, it is also moving. Every, all planets are moving. Even the sun is moving. But we cannot perceive. You ride on a best airplane—there are so many disturbances, sound, moving, sometimes table is (trembling?) moving. But this planet also moving more speedily than the airplane, but you do not perceive. This is Kṛṣṇa's manufacture, perfectly. Pūrṇam idam. This is called pūrṇam idam, everything perfect. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate (Īśo Invocation). Because He is so perfect, we do not perceive. But it is moving.
Therefore it is said, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). If you speculate your senses to find out where is God, where is the soul... The doctors are daily operating, heart operation, and so many finer, finer surgical operation, but they cannot find out where is the soul. But soul is there. That we can perceive. When the soul goes away from the body, we can understand, "Now the soul has gone; the body is dead." So you can perceive; you cannot see. It is not understandable by speculating your gross senses. You cannot... If you want to see what is mind, what is intelligence, what is soul, what is Supersoul, that is not possible to see by your these blunt eyes, conditional eyes. Everyone is very proud of his senses. Somebody says, "Can you show me God?" But have you got the power to see God first of all? So these things are not very intelligent questions and answer. You have to practice according to the direction of the śāstras.
The part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa or God, the soul, is there everywhere. Don't think that simply human being has got soul. This is not very good philosophy, that the animals have no soul. They have got soul. You can practically examine. What is the symptom of possessing soul? First of all try to understand. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam: The presence of soul can be perceived when there is consciousness on the body. This is the proof. When you pinch my body, I feel pain, when I pinch your body, you feel pain, when I pinch an animal's body, he also feels pain. Even I pinch even the tree's body he feels pain. It is scientifically proved. Sir Jagadish Candra Bose has proved by machine that when you cut a tree, it feels pain and it is recorded in this statistic machine. So everyone has got the soul. So how you can think...?
One yuga means forty-three lakhs of years. And multiply it by one thousand. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahaḥ. Now calculate. That duration is one day of Brahmā. One day means twelve hours. Similarly, another twelve hours, night. Day and night. Then again, thirty days, one month. Similarly, twelve months equal to one year. Such one thous..., one hundred years is the duration of Brahmā. So anyone who goes to the Brahmaloka... They are trying to go to the moon planet. I don't think they have been successful. But this is not a very difficult task. But even if you go to the Brahmaloka, where the duration of life is so long and the comforts of life are many, many thousand times what, which we can perceive here, Kṛṣṇa says that "Even you go there, then the birth, death, old age and disease is there. You cannot avoid it." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9).
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Hṛdayānanda: (translating question:) There are many religions that speak of the light. How can we know we are actually facing the real light?
Prabhupāda: Light is to be realized personally. Light... Just like this room is dark. When there is light, it doesn't require to be enquired, "Is it light?" You personally perceive it is light. Just like you are hungry and foodstuff is given to you and when your hunger is satisfied, appetite is appeased, then you naturally you feel, "Yes, I am satisfied." You don't require to enquire anyone. Therefore it is called self-realization. Automatically you realize. You don't require to enquire. This is the process. (break)
Hṛdayānanda: ...that in the spiritual path everyone has to be married.
Prabhupāda: No, not necessarily. If you can remain without marrying, it is better. But because you cannot, you become bachelor daddy, therefore you must marry. (laughter) Please don't become bachelor daddy. (laughter) This is most sinful life. (end)
But because you are soul, spirit soul, part and parcel of God, you have got a particular duty. That is eternal duty. That eternal duty is described here, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). And adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja, this Sanskrit word, is applicable to this Absolute Truth. Akṣaja, adhokṣaja. Akṣaja means experimental knowledge, things which you can perceive by your present senses. Just like you can touch. You can understand a thing by touching, if it is hard or soft, liquid or solid. You can smell, you can hear—so many sensual activities. So things which you can perceive by your sensual activities, they are called direct knowledge or knowledge by experiment. But which is beyond your experiment, that is called adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja means beyond your sense perception. So God's another name is Adhokṣaja, means beyond our perception. You cannot understand God by directly seeing or directly smelling, or directly hearing, or directly tasting or touching.
So here it is mentioned... Adhokṣaja means you cannot perceive the Supreme Absolute Truth by your sense perception. You have to learn it by śruti, by hearing. Hearing is also experience, by hearing.
- śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ
- smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
- arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ
- sakhyam ātma-nivedanam
- (SB 7.5.23)
This is the process, hearing. If you simply hear about God, then you will see God by hearing. That is... Because there is a cloud of dirtiness within our heart. Unless that dirtiness is cleansed, we cannot perceive God. Therefore this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is described by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam: (CC Antya 20.12) "cleansing the mirror of heart." Just like unless you cleanse the mirror which is full of dust, you cannot see your face very nicely; similarly, unless you cleanse your heart very nicely, or in other words, unless your heart is cleansed of all sinful reaction, you cannot understand what is God. That is not possible.
So in this way, "God," "Kṛṣṇa" means all-attractive. He's attractive by His opulences, six kinds opulences, which I have described many times in this class. Another name is adhokṣaja, this name here. He has got many millions and trillions of names, according to perception of the devotee or the knower. He is also known as Brahman, Paraṁ Brahman, Paramātmā, and Kṛṣṇa, Madhusūdana, Govinda. There are many millions and trillions of names of God, but in the Vedic literature it is said that out of all kinds of names designated... Not designated. Designated will be wrong word. Actually. Because God name, God's name is given according to His transcendental quality. Just like this word, "Kṛṣṇa." "Kṛṣṇa" means, real means the all-attractive. So because He has got transcendental qualities to attract everyone, He can attract the richest man, He can attract the most beautiful man or woman, He can attract the most strong man, He can attract the most wise man; therefore He's all-attractive. So adhokṣaja means you cannot perceive. You cannot have any actual idea of God by your mental speculation. He is called adhokṣaja.
So He has appeared just like stone, because we cannot see except stone. Therefore He has appeared like stone, but He is not stone, He is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja means we cannot perceive Kṛṣṇa by direct sense perception but He is so kind, so merciful that He appears before us as we can perceive Him directly.
That yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, and that bhakti, that devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, should be ahaituki. This is first-class, this is their system. Because the enquiry was where is now dharma. So he is describing what is the nature of dharma. The nature of dharma is that bhāgavata is the topmost knowledge. He is giving directly the topmost religious system. The topmost religious system is devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Who is not perceived by direct senses. And that devotional service should be ahaituki. No hetu. Hetu means cause. I am going to the temple with some cause. For mitigation of some difficulties, I shall pray to... That is also nice, but that is haituki, there is some hetu, or cause. We should serve Kṛṣṇa without any cause, not that by serving Kṛṣṇa I shall improve my material position and so many causes maybe. But real service, real devotional service must be without cause. That is pure devotional service.
Ātma, as I have already explained, ātma means this body. That rūpa, you can see. My body you can see, I can see your body. This is one of the rūpa of, gross. Gross rūpa, form. Another, I know you have got mind and you know I have got mind, but you cannot see, you can simply perceive. Is it not? And another rūpa, the soul, that is so fine that it is not possible at the present time. It is described in the śāstra one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair. But it has got a rūpa. Not that there is no rūpa. There is rūpa.
- keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya
- satadhā kalpitasya ca
- jīvo bhāgasya vijñeyaḥ
- sa anantāya kalpate
- (CC Madhya 19.140)
There is magnitude. Just like we say geometrically, point has no length, no breadth. But actually that is not fact. It has got length and breadth, but we cannot measure it. Similarly, ātma, the soul has got length and breadth, but it is beyond our perception. Therefore we have to accept śruti. This is call so Vedas, Vedic injunction. Vedas said, "Here is the magnitude." That is Vedic understanding.
So the Vedas gives us injunction both ways that stool is impure but this stool is pure. And those who are followers of Vedas, they accept both. When they touch the stool of another animal they take bathing, but the stool of cow is taken to the Deity worship room. Similarly, śaṅkha, conchshell. Conchshell is the bone of an animal. It is said that if you touch the bone of a dead animal you have to, you become impure. But conchshell is also the bone of an animal, it is taken to the Deity room for vibrating. Therefore, there are so many things which is beyond our perception, knowledge, we have to take shelter of the Vedic injunctions. That is called Vedic. Therefore our method, Vedic method, is as soon as we speak something, we immediately give evidence from the Vedas. Then it is perfect. There is no question of arguing. Just like in the law court the lawyer pleading something, but if he gives quotation from previous judgement and section of law, it is accepted. So the forms of the ātma, there are three kinds of forms—one you can see directly, this bodily form, another you can simply perceive, and another you can accept only on the Vedic injunctions. But there are forms. So is that right? Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
There are nine kinds of bhajana. Hearing—just like you are hearing about Kṛṣṇa—this is bhajana. So we are giving this opportunity. We are opening hundreds of branches so that people may take advantage of hearing about Kṛṣṇa. That is bhajana. You don't do anything. If you simply come here... We are holding class. If you simply come and hear, you will advance in spiritual consciousness. Simply by aural reception. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). We cannot understand God, Kṛṣṇa, by our present senses. Therefore His name is adhokṣaja. Here this is the verse, it is said, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Adhokṣaja. Akṣaja means direct perception. Just like somebody says, "I want to see." This is called akṣaja. Akṣa means eyes or senses. So He is not perceived by these blunt material senses. Therefore He is known as Adhokṣaja. Adhah-kṛta akṣaja-jñānaṁ yatra, where this direct experimental knowledge is defeated. You cannot understand God by your this blunt material experience. No. That is not possible. Therefore we have to submit. We have to surrender.
Therefore it is said, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharma (SB 1.2.6). Paro dharma and aparā dharma. There are two natures: parā and aparā. These things are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. This material energy, five elements, eight elements, even we can see... We cannot see five elements properly. Five elements: bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir ahaṅkāra (BG 7.4). We can see earth, we can see water, bhūmir āpo. We can see fire, analo. But we cannot see the air, but we can feel that air is blowing. That is also sense perception. We can see... We can perceive. We cannot see what is that sky, but we know, "Here is sky-vacancy." Then we cannot see even mind. We cannot... I know that you have got mind, you know I have got my mind, but you cannot see where is my mind, I cannot see where is your mind. Bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā prakṛti me aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). These are different energies of God, and the whole material world is composed of these five gross elements and three subtle elements. This is called material world.
Bhagavat-tattva-vijñāna... Bhagavat-tattva-vijñāna means the science of God. The science of God becomes perceivable by such person who is situated in the brahma-bhūta, I mean to say, status. So from that brahma-bhūta status, we have to work, and that work is recommended here,
- buddhi-yukto jahātīha
- ubhe sukṛta-duṣkṛte
- tasmād yogāya yujyasva
- yogaḥ karmasu kauśalam
- (BG 2.50)
Now, so, so long we have got this material body, we have to work. We cannot stop working. That is not possible. But we have to adopt the tactics of yoga so that even by doing ordinary work in which by destiny or by circumstances I am put into, there is no harm. You'll find in Bhagavad-gītā that even if you find in your own occupation there is... Suppose I am occupied in some business in which I have to speak lie. Without speaking lie, my business cannot go on. Now, suppose if that is the position. Now, speaking lie is not very good thing, and if you think that your business is not very, based on very moral principle, "So I should give up," then Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that "Don't give up." Even if you are put into such circumstances that your livelihood cannot go on without that unfair means, still, you should not give it up, but you should try to make it purified. You should try to make it purified. How it is purified? Now, you should not take the fruitive result of your work. That is meant for God.
So, so many subtle laws are going on. But the basic principle is that small particle of soul. Then the body develops. That we can see. Not that a pregnancy, on the day of pregnancy, immediately the body develops. No. It develops gradually, gradually. First it is just like a small pea, then gradually develops. As we see, the child born, he also develops. That is also not developed. That is transmigration from one body to another. Just like in a film, in cinema film, there are so many pictures, but when they are moved very swiftly, we see the picture is moving. But there are hundreds of picture. They are combined together. Similarly, the process of our change of body is so swift that we cannot perceive it. We think that it is growing. No. It is not growing. It is different bodies.
Tasya nivāraṇaṁ janaḥ. Raktasya karma nivāram nivāraṇaṁ samatam etad na manyate kintu pravṛtti mārgam anuviyukta veṣan tada vidhi kalpa vidhi(?): "Because he has got already natural tendency. And if he is, there is sanction by religiosity, ritualistic, religious process, then he will stick to it. So you have not done very nice work." That is... Na manyate tasya nivāraṇaṁ janaḥ. Vicakṣaṇo 'syārhati vedituṁ vibhor ananta-pārasya nivṛttitaḥ sukham: "Because actually, if anyone wants real happiness, that happiness is not by gratifying your senses." In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said that sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya-grāhyam (BG 6.21). Real happiness, that is not perceived by this gratification of these material senses. So nivṛttitaḥ. One has to cease from this material sense gratification, and then he can enjoy the real happiness, which is transcendental to sense enjoyment. That is... That is the instruction.
So similarly, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna... The same philosophy, everywhere. What was spoken by Prahlāda Mahārāja millions of years ago, the same thing was perceived by Rūpa Gosvāmī five hundred years ago, and same thing can be perceived now also. Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ. If you once become merged into the nectarean of chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, then you'll always remain happy. There is no doubt about it. Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ (SB 7.9.43). So either Rūpa Gosvāmī or Prahlāda Mahārāja or anyone, even up to date, they may face many difficulties, so-called difficulties. A Vaiṣṇava has no difficulty. But we see... Just like we see Prahlāda Mahārāja was in difficulty. Rūpa Gosvāmī was in difficulty. He was minister and he became a mendicant. Kaupīna-kanthāśritau. No, he was not difficulty.
So He is within and without. Simply we have to purify our eyes to see Him. That's all. You can see God without and within, but you cannot see with these eyes. These materially contaminated eyes or materially contaminated senses, you cannot understand by these senses. But God can be perceived, can be seen, by these senses, by these eyes, when you purify it. That purificatory process is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The more you purify, the more you can see God within and without. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). The indriya, these senses, cannot perceive, cannot see, cannot touch, cannot hear nāmādi. Unless you are purified, you cannot hear also Kṛṣṇa name. Unless you are purified, the name enters this ear and goes out in this ear. You cannot appreciate. Therefore purificatory process is required.
Because Kṛṣṇa is alakṣya, invisible, He has become visible for your facility, as you can see. Still... It is not that Kṛṣṇa is stone or Kṛṣṇa is wood or Kṛṣṇa is metal. Kṛṣṇa is always Kṛṣṇa. But He appears... Because you cannot see except wood, stone and metal, He appears like that, wood, stone or metal. But He's not wood, stone or metal. You'll get the same facility as Kṛṣṇa personally if you associate, when you associate. You will associate with Kṛṣṇa. But at the present moment, because Kṛṣṇa is invisible, therefore He has very kindly taken a form which is visible by you. This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Do not think, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa, stone Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa is everything. Kṛṣṇa is everything. So Kṛṣṇa is stone also, but He's not that stone that cannot act. Kṛṣṇa can act also in the stone form also. Kṛṣṇa act also in metal form also. And you will perceive that. Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. The so-called stone also speaks with you. There are many instances like that.
So samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu (BG 9.29). He's equal to everyone. Now it is up to you to understand Him according to your capacity. So Kuntī also says the same thing in this verse: samaṁ carantaṁ sarvatra (SB 1.8.28). Samaṁ carantam. Carantam means moving. He is moving everywhere, outside, inside, simply we have to make our eyes clear to see Him. That is devotional service, to make our senses purified to perceive the presence of God. God is present everywhere. Antar bahiḥ. Antaḥ means within and bahiḥ means without. "Those who are less intelligent, they simply try to find out God within, and those who are advanced in intelligence, they can see You within and without." That is the difference.
So the friends also were very much obliged to Kṛṣṇa. There was fire all around. They do not know anything. "Kṛṣṇa." "Yes." Kṛṣṇa is ready. Kṛṣṇa immediately swallowed up the whole fire. There were so many demons attacked. Every day, all the boys, they would come back to their home and explain to their mother: "Mother, Kṛṣṇa is so wonderful. You see. This happened today." And the mother would say: "Yes, our Kṛṣṇa is wonderful." So much. That's all. They do not know Kṛṣṇa is God, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person. Kṛṣṇa is wonderful. That's all. And their love increases. The more they perceive Kṛṣṇa's wonderful activities, they become more lover. "Perhaps he may be a demigod. Yes." That is their suggestion. When Nanda Mahārāja will talk amongst his friends and the friends will talk about Kṛṣṇa... "Oh, Nanda Mahārāja, your child Kṛṣṇa is wonderful. "Yes, I see that. Maybe some demigod." That's all. "Maybe." That is also not certain. So the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, they do not care who is God out or who is not God. That is not their business. But they want Kṛṣṇa and love Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Generally, they worship God, needy ārtaḥ arthārthī. Ārtaḥ means diseased, arthārthī means in need of money. People generally go to church (or) temple when they are suffering from some ailments or need of money, these two classes. Another two classes, jijñāsuḥ jñānī. Jñānī means who is after pure knowledge and jijñāsuḥ means inquisitive—what is the nature of God. These are, they are higher section but they are not bhaktas. Just like there are many philosophers, they also talk of God, but they are not bhaktas. But because they are talking of God, they are getting some benefit. Just like if you handle with fire, you perceive some warmth automatically. So these four classes of man they are not bhaktas, devotees, ārtaḥ, arthārthī, jñānī, and jijñāsuḥ. But because they come to Kṛṣṇa for some benefit, somehow or other they offer their service, because praying is also another service. There are nine kinds of services: śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanam (SB 7.5.23). Vandanam, this is also service. But because this service is rendered for some motive to mitigate the sufferings, ārtaḥ arthārthi, or to satisfy some inquires, they are not pure devotion.
Kṛṣṇa is not different from His words. That is absolute. What Kṛṣṇa said five thousand years ago, if you catch up those words again you're immediately connected with Kṛṣṇa, immediately. This is the process. Just see Arjuna. He says, evaṁ cintayato jiṣṇoḥ kṛṣṇa-pāda-saroruham. When he began to think of Kṛṣṇa and His instruction as..., in the battlefield, immediately he become śānta, peaceful. Immediately pacified. This is the process. We have got intimate relationship with Kṛṣṇa, eternally. It is not artificial. Therefore if you keep ourself always connected with Kṛṣṇa, there will be no more disturbance. Peaceful. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. If you get that position, then that is the highest benefit, highest gain, yaṁ labdhvā ca, then you will not desire for any other gain. You'll perceive that I have got the highest gain. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ, yasmin sthitaḥ... And if you keep yourself fixed up in that position, then guruṇāpi duḥkhena na (Bg. 6.20-23), even the heaviest type of calamities, you'll not be disturbed. That is peace. That is peace. Not that little pinching, you're disturbed. If you're actually fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you'll not be disturbed in the greatest form of dangerous condition. That is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Thank you very much. (end)
So tritve, three, and pañcatvam, five, that means eight, the eight kinds of material energy. Earth, water, fire, air, sky—these are gross. The gross, amongst the gross also, the finer material energy, the sky, we cannot see. This is also gross. Then mind. Everyone knows I am thinking, I have got mind. You know, I know. But where is the mind? Have you seen? Somebody suggests mind is in the brain, somebody suggests in the stomach, somebody... Suggesting. But there is mind. Everyone knows. Then next finer, the sky. We can perceive the sky is there by sound. As soon as... (makes tapping sound) This is due to sky, this sound. That is the symptom there is sky. But similarly, although the sky you cannot see, you can understand that... Similarly, mind is there. You can understand by thinking, feeling, willing, mind is there. But you do not see the mind. Oh, why you are so much proud, "Can you show me"? You cannot see your mind, you cannot see the sky, and you want to see God with your these eyes. Just see how foolish they are! You cannot see even a gross thing and subtle things, and the finer, finer, finer than all subtle things... Mind, then intelligence. Simply not mind. When we think, feel or will, there is intelligence behind that, and if the intelligence is not good, simply you will think of nonsense.
So te sādhu kṛta-sarvārthāḥ. They have executed all duties. Kṛta-sarvārthāḥ. Jñātvā ātyantikam ātmanaḥ. We are hankering after happiness, temporary, but we do not know what is ultimate happiness. So they knew what is the ultimate happiness. Ātyantikam. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya-grāhyam (BG 6.21). Bhagavad-gītā. Ātyantikam. The ultimate happiness is not perceived by these gross material senses. The ultimate happiness is appreciated, understood, by transcendental senses. The same senses... Means now the senses are covered by material infection. So when you purify this material infection, then your senses become pure. And in that pure senses, you can enjoy real happiness. Therefore here it is said, ātyantikam ātmanaḥ manasā dhārayām āsuḥ. So they knew what is the ātyantikaṁ dhār..., Vaikuṇṭha. Vaikuṇṭha-caraṇāmbujam. Vaikuṇṭha. Vaikuṇṭha means vigata-kuṇṭha. Kuṇṭha means anxiety. And God's another name is Vaikuṇṭha. If you take shelter of the lotus feet of God, Kṛṣṇa, then you become without anxieties. This is the only.
So it appears like death, but it is actually not death. Just like the electric fan, if you make the switch off, it has stopped running, but if you say, "Still running," that is not running. That is a show of running. Actually, the running is stopped. Similarly, as soon as you surrender to God, through His representative, your death is stopped unless you make it nullified by accepting anything which is against the bhakti principle. Otherwise your deathlessness is guaranteed. That is stated here. Na kaścin mriyate tāvad yāvad āsta ihāntakaḥ. If you simply know that "Yamarāja is there; he is supervising that I may not fall down," then you will not die. You will not die. It is not impractical. It is practical. Try to perceive the truth that since you have begun Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, your death has been stopped. But don't fall down and again capture death. That is the instruction.
Thank you very much. (end)
If you want to know what is God, then the other service, sevā. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. And that service begins from the tongue. Now, generally, when we think of service, we think of our hand and legs, that "By..., I can render service with my hands, with my legs." No. The science of understanding God—the service begins with the tongue. Just see. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). You cannot understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa, His name, His activities, nāmādi... Nāmādi means name, form, qualities, activities, pastimes, entourage, so many things, ādi. Therefore... Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, but we cannot understand what is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa. We cannot understand. Nāmādi. Na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ. Indriyaiḥ means the senses. There are so many people are hearing this sound vibration, but why they're not becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious? Because there is no sevā, there is no service. Therefore it is said, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). But how it will be perceived by the indriyas? Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. By service. And wherefrom the service begins? It begins jihvādau, beginning with the tongue, beginning with the tongue. This is the service.
This is recommended in the śāstra for the less intelligent class of men. Still, it may be questioned that "Why Vedas have—if the ultimate goal is to reach the Supreme Personality of Godhead—why the Vedas have prescribed different demigod worship?" Yes, that is replied in the Bhagavad-gītā, tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām. Those who are less intelligent, for them, not for the first-class intelligent. Those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they are first-class intelligent. They don't want anything beyond Kṛṣṇa. That's all. They don't want to know anything except Kṛṣṇa. The advantage is that if you can know Kṛṣṇa, then you know everything. And if you get Kṛṣṇa, you get everything. Therefore this conclusion cannot be perceived by less intelligent class of men. Exactly like that. If one is intelligent, he goes to the river from the village, and he takes there bath. River water is never contaminated because constantly the wave is flowing. Suppose you contaminate a certain portion, but it does not stand, it flows down immediately.
Of course, stone is also God because stone is another energy of God, just like fire is also heat and light. And the heat is also fire, and light is also fire. Without fire, there cannot be light. Without fire, there cannot be heat So this material world is just like the heat and light of the supreme light, of the supreme fire. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis tathedam akhilaṁ jagat. Eka-deśa-sthitasyāgner jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā, tathedam akhilaṁ jagat. Just like fire is in one place... Just like sun. It is a, mean, a practical example. The sun is in one place. You have seen. It is light and heat, so expanding the light and heat throughout the whole universe, and as soon as you perceive light and heat, you can understand there is sun. So light and heat can be perceived by anyone. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ: "I am the light and heat of the sun." Of course, moon, there is no heat. There is cooling effect. Two things are there. So all these are energies of Kṛṣṇa. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. So why people say, "Can you show me God?" You are seeing daily, every moment. But because you are fool, you have no sense of understanding. As soon as there is some heat, any man can understand there is fire. As soon as there is smoke, anyone can understand there is fire. Similarly, if you can feel the energy of the Lord, then you can feel the presence of the Lord immediately.
We have got experience of this body. That is gross experience. Anyone can see. I see your body; you see my body. But you don't see me actually; I don't see you actually. We see or perceive your presence when the soul is off from the body. Then we cry, "Oh, my friend has gone away. My friend has gone away." Why your friend has gone away? He is lying here. Then we can perceive that "My real friend or my real father, the soul, who is different from this body..." And now, at the present moment, "He is my father, he is my friend, who is this body"—that is animal vision. That is not human being vision. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke...sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Animals also see, "Here is a friend dog. Here is my mother dog."
So we have no eyes to see. So we cannot see even the soul, minute soul, and how we can see God in these blunt eyes? And still we want to see God. We cannot see even you; you cannot see me. We are part and parcel of God. And how you can see God? Therefore it is said, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ: (CC Madhya 17.136) "The present senses is incapable of seeing God." Or seeing you and me. There is no spiritual vision. But we can perceive. Just like after death we can understand there was something which has gone away: "Now, the body which I was seeing is neither my father nor my friend. It is a lump of matter, that's all." This is knowledge.
This is the disease. This is called material disease. One is infected by the prākṛta-guṇa. The prākṛta-guṇa... Guṇa means quality, mode. So prākṛta means this material prakṛti, and spiritual means aprākṛta. There are different stages of knowledge: pratyakṣa, parokṣa, aparokṣa, adhokṣaja, aprākṛta. One has to go step by step. General knowledge means pratyakṣa, whatever you perceive by the senses. That is called pratyakṣa. And the knowledge which you receive from authorities, that is parokṣa. Then aparokṣa, realization. Then adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja means knowledge which beyond your perception. But there is source of knowledge, adhokṣaja. Therefore God's another name is Adhokṣaja. Adhaḥ. Adhaḥ means subduing, bring under subjugation. Adhah-kṛta, akṣaja. Akṣaja means the knowledge directly perceived by the senses. Akṣa means eyes and akṣa means atukya(?). So any knowledge within the alphabets, ABCD, that is called akṣaja. And the knowledge which is beyond that, that is called adhokṣaja. And beyond the adhokṣaja knowledge there is aprākṛta. Aprākṛta knowledge.
Nitāi: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the Supreme Soul, and He has no beginning. He is transcendental to the material modes of nature and beyond the existence of this material world. He is perceivable everywhere because He is self-effulgent, and by His self-effulgent luster the entire creation is maintained."
Prabhupāda:
- anādir ātmā puruṣo
- nirguṇaḥ prakṛteḥ paraḥ
- pratyag-dhāmā svayaṁ-jyotir
- viśvaṁ yena samanvitam
- (SB 3.26.3)
In the previous verse we had already discussed, jñānaṁ puruṣasya ātma-darśanam. Puruṣasya, the living entity is also called puruṣa, and the Supreme Lord is also called puruṣa. So real puruṣa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We are not puruṣa; we are prakṛti, living entities. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. After explaining this jaḍa-prakṛti, or the dull matter... That is called jaḍa-prakṛti-bhūmi, earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence and ego. These are all jaḍa-prakṛti, material. Sometimes it is misunderstood, "Mind is spiritual." No, mind is material. Intelligence, that is also material. And this false ego with designation, that is, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," so many designations, "I am cat," "I am dog," "I am human being," this is also material conception. I am neither dog, neither cat, neither demigod, nor human being. I am ātmā. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.
So the sky is known by śabda, sound. This is tan-mātra. This is... By sound, you can understand there is sky. If you clap, there is sound (claps). You understand there is sky. Sky is understood by the śabda. Then air is understood by sparśa. Just like electric fan is running, but even if I do not see it is running, because the air is touching my body, I can understand the air is there. Sparśa. Rūpa, rasa, śabda. Śabda, sky, and rūpa, fire. From the fire, rūpa begins, form. Rasa. Rasa is in the taste in the water. And gandha is in the earth. So five gross elements and five subtle elements. The gross elements is understood by the subtle elements. Subtle means we cannot see it directly, but we can perceive it. So pañcabhiḥ pañcabhiḥ . And then daśabhiḥ , ten senses, knowledge-acquiring, cakṣuḥ, karṇa, nāsikā: eyes, ear and nose and tongue, hands, in this way. And karmabhiḥ . We work with hands, legs, genital. In this way, there are five working sense organs and five senses to gather knowledge. So five, five, and ten, twenty-four. And the subtle senses, mano buddhir ahaṅkāraś cittam-four.
So these four, twenty-four elements is covering the spirit soul.
So in the material world we can perceive only if we are intelligent. But in the spiritual world there is directly. Now here it is said that ādhatta vīryaṁ sāsūta, vīryam. So the living entities, they are also coming from the paraḥ pumān. He is impregnating this material energy with these living entities, and according to their desires, different desires, they are getting different types of bodies. And he is thinking that he is enjoying. Just like the pig. He is also thinking he is enjoying stool. He is also thinking. Similarly, you will find also, human society. They are eating different types of foodstuff. "One man's poison... One man's food is another man's poison." Suppose one man is eating something. Another man will say, "Eh! What he is eating?" But he is also enjoying. He is also.
So śānti cannot be attained so long we are attached to this asat. Asad-grahāt sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. We are... All people in this material world, we are always samyag udvigna, samudvigna. Udvigna means anxiety, always full of anxieties. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Why samudvigna-dhiyām? Kṛṣṇa consciousness means this, svacchatvam avikāritvaṁ śāntatvam, these three things, Kṛṣṇa consciousness: clear understanding; no change, no change from Kṛṣṇa consciousness; and śāntatvam, peaceful. Just like a man—ordinarily we perceive—a gentleman, after working very hard, if he gets some bank balance and nice house, nice wife, and some children, he thinks, "I am very happy." This is also māyā. He thinks, "But I am happy." What kind of māyā? Pramattaḥ teṣāṁ nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati. He is in māyā, mad, illusion, pramatta. He does not see that these things will be also finished. Teṣāṁ nidhanam. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu ātma-sainyeṣu asatsu api (SB 2.1.4). Asatsu api. He knows that this position, nice position, very good atmosphere, nice children, nice wife, nice house, nice bank balance, nice relative, nice position, everything, prime minister and everything—very all right. But it will be finished in no time. But he, although knows, he does not care for it. This is called vimūḍhān.
So due to this nonsensical meaning, people are puzzled, that "Whom to surrender? Because Kṛṣṇa I do not see." No. Kṛṣṇa is always existing. So you can... Kṛṣṇa is existing, and to be perceivable by you, Kṛṣṇa has appeared before you. Here is the arcā-mūrti. The arcā-mūrti we are serving. It is not that... Don't think. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīḥ. If you are rascal, they will think that "These people are serving a stone statue." The rascals will think like that, but that is not the fact. Here, practical serving of Kṛṣṇa. The same ācārya has taught that here is Kṛṣṇa. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. Śrī-vigraha. This arcā-mūrti, śrī-vigraha, ārādhanam, you should worship. This is the ācārya-panthā. This is the paramparā.
Nitāi: The mind, the senses and the vital force, or living entity, have forms, although they are not visible to the naked eye. Form rests in subtle existence in the sky, and internally it is perceived as the veins within the body and the circulation of the vital air. Externally there are invisible forms of sense objects. The production of the invisible sense objects is the external activity of the ethereal element, and the circulation of vital air and blood is its internal activity. That subtle forms exist in the ether has been proven by modern science by transmission of television, by which forms or photographs of one place are transmitted to another place by the action of the ethereal element. That is very nicely explained here. This verse is the potential basis of great scientific research work, for it explains how subtle forms are generated from the ethereal element, what their characteristics and actions are, and how the tangible elements, namely air, fire, water and earth, are manifested from the subtle form. Mental activities, or psychological actions of thinking, feeling and willing, are also activities on the platform of ethereal existence. The statement in Bhagavad-gītā that the mental situation at the time of death is the basis of the next birth is also corroborated in this verse. Mental existence transforms into tangible form as soon as there is an opportunity due to contamination or development of the gross elements from subtle form.
Prabhupāda: So one important thing, that "The statement in the Bhagavad-gītā that the mental situation at the time of death is the basis of the next birth is also corroborated in this verse." Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). Generally, with our these material eyes, material senses, gross vision, we do not see how a person dying and he is being transformed to another body. The gross material scientists, scholars, because they cannot see with the eyes, they do not believe in, that there is soul and soul transmigrates from one body to another. Big, big scientists, big, big scholars, they do not believe. They think that life is nothing but a mixture of these material elements and at a time the vitality is finished; therefore everything is finished. But that is not the fact. The fact is the gross body is finished, but the subtle body—mind, intelligence, and ego—that remains with the soul. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The... Just like in dream we do not work with this gross body, but we work in dream with mind, intelligence and ego. We create another atmosphere, and in dream we see or we place ourself in a different atmosphere, although the gross body is resting on the bed.
Nitāi: "By the interaction of fire and the visual sensation, the subtle element taste evolves under a superior arrangement. From taste, water is produced, and the tongue, which perceives taste, is also manifested."
Prabhupāda:
- rūpa-mātrād vikurvāṇāt
- tejaso daiva-coditāt
- rasa-mātram abhūt tasmād
- ambho jihvā rasa-grahaḥ
- (SB 3.26.41)
How water is manufactured, that is explained here. The modern scientists, they speak of manufacturing water by combination of two gases: hydrogen, oxygen. May be true to certain extent. But from Vedic literature we understand that by the interaction of form and touch through the agency of fire maybe there is perspiration. Just like when our body becomes too much heated, there is perspiration, the water comes out, similarly, the same process we get the water, ambu. And as soon as there is water there is jihvā, the sense of touch, rasa-graha, which can taste. Jihvā is meant for tasting. So this is the way of physical manifestation of different ways. But on the background there is daiva-codita. Everything is coming into existence on account of superior management or superior impelling. That is the main proposition, that mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ (BG 9.10). These things we..., physical transformation, different ways, we experience. That is the phenomenal world. But these things are taking place not automatically but daiva-coditāt, by superior intervention, impelled by the superior Personality of Godhead.
What is that? Vaiṣamyād gandha eko vibhidyate. In the previous verse the gandha, from gandha, from smell, fragrance or smell, ghrāṇas tu gandhagaḥ. So in the smelling power, nostril, they perceive different varieties. Variety is there. Although the thing is one, one Kṛṣṇa, but even in His material energy, He is perceived in varieties of things. That is the purpose of this Sāṅkhya philosophy, how one has become many. Ekaṁ bahu syām.
So intelligence is to know the one as well as the varieties. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca (Bs. 5.33). The Māyāvādī philosophers, they simply take one side, oneness. Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. That is fact. Dvitī... There is no dvitīya. Dvitīyābhiniveśa means māyā. Everywhere, Kṛṣṇa is there. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). The materialistic scientists, they take the ultimate cause of this material world: the atom. Now this atomic theory, paramāṇu. Paramāṇu. You have seen the paramāṇu. In your room, if there is a hole and sunshine is coming through that hole, you will find in that sunshine, sun rays, there are millions of small particles. That is called paramāṇu. Aṇu, paramāṇu. So then there is aṇu also, smaller than that. Six aṇus combined together becomes a paramāṇu. So the paramāṇuvāda... I forget the ṛṣi's name who propounded the philosophy of paramāṇuvāda, that the material creation is combination of these atomic particles, paramāṇuvāda. But now the scientists they are studying the paramāṇu, atom, also. They are finding still subtle elements. They say "proton and electron," like that, still finer. In this way you cannot go ultimately to the finest material being. And even if you go, still, there is no solution. You will find something else within it working.
Nitāi: "The characteristics of the functions of earth can be perceived by modeling forms of the Supreme Brahman, by constructing places of residence, by preparing pots to contain water, etc. In other words, the earth is the place of sustenance for all elements."
Prabhupāda:
- bhāvanaṁ brahmaṇaḥ sthānaṁ
- dhāraṇaṁ sad-viśeṣaṇam
- sarva-sattva-guṇodbhedaḥ
- pṛthivī-vṛtti-lakṣaṇam
- (SB 3.26.46)
So brahmaṇaḥ sthānam. This temple is brahmaṇaḥ sthānam, the residential place for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, brahmaṇaḥ. Brahmaṇaḥ means the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth is understood in three different features: brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). So Supreme Brahman means Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as it was accepted by Arjuna after understanding Bhagavad-gītā. He addressed Him, paraṁ brahma param dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: (BG 10.12) "You are paraṁ brahma." Brahman and Paramātmā and Bhagavān. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate, the Absolute Truth. According to our different realization, the Absolute Truth is realized in three different features: impersonal Brahman; and localized, all-pervading antaryāmī, Viṣṇu or Paramātmā; and the last word of understanding is Bhagavān.
So we do not know that we are now living conditional life, virupa, which is not my svarūpa. This is the science that svarūpa can be perceived, can be realized. That is described in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā: brahma-bhūta. Brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), spiritual realization, that is also not svarūpa. That is the beginning of self-realization.
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
That is svarūpa. After Brahman realization, when one is perfectly free from all material anxieties, that is beginning of svarūpa. And then the conception of equality, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Those who are learned, they have no such distinction that "I am Indian," "You are American," "You are Bengali," "I am Andhra," and this... No. This is all virūpa, all virūpa. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). We have several times explained, we have to be free from all these designation. That is svarūpa, designationless.
Our knowledge is sense perception. Sense perception, akṣaja jñānam. That will not act there. Acintya. Therefore we have to accept in that way. Idaṁ śarīram, but He has His body. He has His body, and because we cannot conceive, He, out of His causeless mercy, He presents Himself in a form which we can see. That is arcā-vigraha, arcā-mūrti. A vigraha. Arcā means the form which we can worship. If God is impersonal Avyaktāsakta-cetasām. Kleśo adhikataras teṣām. If we accept God as impersonal He is not impersonal. He says idaṁ śarīram. He is personal. But our present senses cannot perceive. That is the difficulty. Therefore out of His causeless mercy He has appeared in a form which you can see, you can touch, you can dress, you can offer garland, you can offer food—to accept your service. That is God's mercy. Don't think that "Because God mercifully has come before Me in a form which we can perceive, which we can see, with which we can serve," not that "He is not God." That is rascaldom. God is there. Otherwise Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as soon as He entered the Jagannātha's temple, immediately He fainted. Does it mean He made a fun? No. He saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead present there.
Just imagine how much the mind is speedy. Mind is subtle. Everyone, you have got mind, I have got mind, but I cannot see your mind; you cannot see my mind. Subtle. This is a material thing. Bhūmir āpo'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano, mano (BG 7.4). The sky, ether, we cannot see but we can perceive. When you press the sky like this, (claps) there is sound. You can understand, "Here is sky." But mind you cannot see, still subtle.
- indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur
- indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ
- manasas tu paro buddhir
- buddhes para tu yaḥ
- (BG 3.42)
So the soul is so subtle, you cannot see. You cannot see sky, and still finer is the mind, still finer is intelligence, and still finer, the soul. So how can you see? With your gross eyes it is not possible. Therefore they are bewildered, how the soul is being transferred from one body to another. They see the gross body. Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), tathā dehāntara prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). But doctors, medical men, scientists, they cannot see that where is the soul, how the soul is transmigrating. These are all durvibhāvya, inconceivable.
So what is that thing? It is definition by negation. We cannot understand in our present state what is that spirit soul. Although we can perceive that there is something—in the absence of that something, this body is nothing but a lump of matter. That we get experience every day. But we cannot see what is that. Therefore atheist class or the persons with poor fund of knowledge, they deny the existence. They cannot see. But they cannot answer that why the body is no more working, what is that thing which is absent? They have tried to explain in so many ways how that something... But they could not practically explain. We have to understand it by the śruti process, Vedic knowledge. That is real understanding. And understanding from the right person, Kṛṣṇa or His representative. And it has to be understood simply by hearing. There is no other process. You cannot see; it is so small particle. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). So in these material eyes we cannot see even the spiritual spark within the body. How you can see the Supreme Spirit? It is not possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). These blunt senses cannot see. But we can perceive. This much concession is there, and one can become completely free from bodily conception of life.
Therefore our movement is being checked in the Western countries that this is a brainwash movement. Brainwash movement, that we are injecting some ideas by psychology, mental control, and our people they are taking to it, and it is spreading like epidemic. How to check it? Therefore they are now taking action how to stop this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in Europe and America. They are trying. Of course, we are not afraid of this attempt. They will never be successful, rest assured, because we are pushing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa was attempted to be killed from the very beginning of His life. That is the nature of this material world, "How to kill God," "God is dead." This is their attempt. So from the life of Kṛṣṇa we can understand that so many attempts were made by the demons and the rākṣasas to kill Kṛṣṇa, but actually Kṛṣṇa killed them all. So if you are sincere, if you follow the principles and push on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, nobody can kill you. You'll go forward, rest assured. We are not going to be killed. That they are perceiving, that this movement is spreading like epidemic, and the young men of Europe and America, they're taking seriously. Professor Stillson Judah already has given his conclusion that "This movement is not going to stop. It will go on." That's a fact. Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed, neither His movement cannot be killed. Rather, those who are attempting to kill, they will be killed. But we must be very sincere, serious, follow the regulative principle and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra as you have been taught. Follow this principle boldly, and there is no fear.
Sarve padma-palāśākṣāḥ. They were very much satisfied by seeing the Viṣṇudūtas. Just like in your country they are very much satisfied by seeing your face. They have named you "bright-faced." Why? You are naturally very beautiful, but they understand, your countrymen, that you have become more beautiful by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's a fact. (aside): You can sit down there. This is disturbing. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that naturally it will make you beautiful, not black-faced, not morose—beautiful face. That is the sign of spiritual advancement. By the face you'll understand that "Here is a man who is spiritually advanced." Pratyakṣam avagamaṁ dharmyam. This process of spiritual consciousness can be directly perceived. It is not theoretical: "Oh, I am a very great devotee." No. Simply theoretical understanding, "I am a great devotee..." From the very face it will be understood. Face is the index of mind, how you are thinking. If you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa always, then your face will be beautiful. Therefore it is called pratyakṣam avagamaṁ dharmyam, direct perception. There is no theoretical. It is practical. Pratyakṣyam avagamaṁ dharmyaṁ su-sukham.
To receive Vedic knowledge... Vedic knowledge means spiritual knowledge. Material knowledge also, the same process, any knowledge, especially spiritual knowledge. Because material things sometimes we can perceive directly because our body is material. But spiritual knowledge, unless you hear from the authority, there is no source of knowledge. You cannot understand. Because we do not see what is spirit. I am spirit, you are spirit, but I do not see your spirit soul, you do not see my spirit soul, because we have got material eyes. When somebody dies, one cries, "Oh, my father is gone. My father is gone." Where is your father gone? Your father is lying on the bed. Why do you say father gone? That means with these material eyes we cannot see spirit.
This is practice. This is called bhakti-yoga, practice. Engage your senses, all senses, working senses and perceiving senses, everything in Kṛṣṇa, and that will make you perfect.
So the mind, as it is said here... Similarly, Kṛṣṇa personally says that sa vai, yoginām api sarveṣām (BG 6.47), sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa, mind, engage always mind. Do something for Kṛṣṇa. Then the mind automatically will be engaged. Something. Just like a nationalist, a family man, he is doing always something for the welfare of the family. Or for the welfare of the society. Or a big, big nationalist, leaders. Why they become big leaders? Why they are worshiped? Because they are thinking always of the nation, of the community. That is good. But a Vaiṣṇava is not only thinking of the community or society or family, he is thinking of all living entities.
The modern science, they cannot understand this. They are searching after the active principle or living force within this body, but they have no information. But here, in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, you get the full analysis. Tad etat ṣoḍaśa-kalam. The analysis is that the living entity is enwrapped first all with sixteen wrappers, ṣoḍaśa-kalam. What are those? Now, ten senses: five working senses and five knowledge-gathering senses. We are experience... We are perceiving by using our five knowledge-gathering senses, just like eyes, ear, cakṣu, karṇa, smell, nose. Cakṣu, karṇa, nāsikā, jihvā, tongue, touch, hand... In this way we get knowledge experience. Sometimes we stress on the knowledge experienced by the eyes: "I want to see." But that is not the only source of knowledge. There are many blind men who cannot see, but he has got full knowledge. There are other sources of knowledge. Just like a mango. You see the mango, but you cannot experience the full knowledge unless you use the tongue. Then you can say whether it is good mango or bad mango, not by seeing.
So experience is gathered from different senses. Why you are giving stress only on seeing? This is foolishness. Just like you can... Even if you do not taste—the mango seller may not allow you to taste—but you can smell. By smelling, you can understand whether the mango is good or bad. After all, you have to get experience. So why we should stress upon seeing Kṛṣṇa? That is most foolish proposal. You have other senses. Kṛṣṇa is prepared to be perceived by you by other senses. What is that? If you hear Kṛṣṇa, then you must know there is Kṛṣṇa. There is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not different from His name, from His form, either form or name or quality or paraphernalia, anything. He is Absolute. There is no duality. Anything you perceive, that is Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa temple is also Kṛṣṇa. So we have no sufficient knowledge how to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is prepared to be understood by us in so many ways. So the Kali-yuga, therefore, name is so important. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). This formula should be seriously taken. Kṛtāśeṣa agha-niṣkṛtam. Aśeṣa. Unlimited amount or unlimited number of sinful activities are already finished.
So unless we go to the spiritual platform, we cannot have actual happiness. That is the instruction Prahlāda Mahārāja is giving, that sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. The happiness perceived by contact of senses or contact of body, sukham aindriyakam... Our present appreciation of happiness is due to the senses, and these particular senses are according to the particular body. Deha-yogena dehinām. The other day we have explained that a hog, because he has got a particular type of body, his sense gratification is to eat stool. His body is so made that he will feel happy by eating stool. Similarly, another man, his body is so made that he will be happy to have kṛṣṇa-prasāda. So that we can make by Kṛṣṇa consciousness (break) ...change the habit of the body. That is possible. How it is possible? By knowledge. The hog cannot be educated. His body is so condemned that it is not possible to educate the hog or the dog or the cat or the animal. Here is a body—by education, one can become from doggish habit to goddish habit. That is possible.
Harikeśa: Translation: "Prahlāda Mahārāja continued to speak: My dear friends born of demon families, the happiness which is perceived with reference to the senses can be obtained in any form of life according to one's past fruitive activities. Such happiness is automatically obtained, as sometimes we obtain distresses without any endeavor."
Prabhupāda:
- sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā
- deha-yogena dehinām
- sarvatra labhyate daivād
- yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ
- (SB 7.6.3)
Now Prahlāda Mahārāja in the previous verses explained that durlabhaṁ manuṣaṁ janma: "This human form of life is durlabham, very rarely gotten." It is not so easy. There are many rascals, they say that once you come to the human form of life there is no more degradation. That is rascaldom. When Kṛṣṇa says that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntaram-prāptir (BG 2.13), He says that "As you have changed bodies, similarly, at the end also you'll have to change the body." He never says that "You'll get again human body." Never says. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir: "Another form of life." That another form may be... There are 8,400,000 forms. So "another form" means any one of them. There is no guarantee.
Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) "Prahlāda Mahārāja continued: My dear friends born of demoniac families, the happiness perceived with reference to the sense objects by contact with the body can be obtained in any form of life, according to one's past fruitive activities. Such happiness is automatically obtained without endeavor, just as we obtain distress."
Prabhupāda:
- sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā
- deha-yogena dehinām
- sarvatra labhyate daivād
- yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ
- (SB 7.6.3)
We are, every one of us, we are fully under the control of material nature. We have put ourselves, in different bodies, we are fully under the control of material nature. There is no question of independence. In the śāstra it is described just like a horse or a bull is bound up in the nose and the driver, as he push, pull on the rope, it has to go according to that. There is no independence. So our so-called declaration of independence, "There is no God. There is no control. Whatever we like we can do," this means ignorance. And in ignorance we commit so many mistakes, and that is sinful activity.
So to control over the material urges, that is required in spiritual... We have to come to the spiritual platform. That is called tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam (SB 5.5.1). We are searching after happiness, but in the material world you cannot have happiness. That is a fact. Whatever little happiness you get, that is also distress. One has to attain to that stage of happiness with(out) distress. So that is a long history; everyone knows that happiness is not possible. But we arrange to get so-called... Happiness means sense gratification. That is not happiness. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad ātindriya grāhyam (BG 6.21). Directly sense perception is not happiness. These things are in the Bhagavad-gītā, you will find: sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam. Ātindriyam means beyond these material senses, transcendental, there is another happiness. That is transcendental bliss. That we perceive little bit while we are chanting. By chanting, chanting, chanting, when you'll be purified, then you will have the opportunity of tasting that transcendental bliss. Otherwise, the so-called happiness derived from the senses, that is not happiness. That is crude, that is for the fools and rascals. That is not happiness.
So very soon, if you try to meditate what you are and what you are not, by this analytical self-study, you can understand that you are not this body, you are this consciousness. And this consciousness, what is that consciousness? It is the effulgence of the soul. Consciousness is also not you are. It is just like this lamp has got some effulgence and illumination. Similarly, the soul has got illumination. That illumination is this consciousness. So this illumination, this consciousness is also limited. Your consciousness, my consciousness, they are limited. You cannot perceive or understand what I am thinking; I cannot perceive or understand what you are thinking. If you are feeling, I mean to say, uncomfortable, I do not understand it. And if I am feeling happy, you do not understand it. In this way, if you make analytical study, you'll know that every one of us is individual and we have got individual consciousness, limited consciousness, not extensive. The Māyāvādī philosophers who mistake that "I am unlimited consciousness," no. If you deliberate, if you think wisely, then you are not unlimited consciousness. Your consciousness cannot approach my perception. Therefore I am limited consciousness. But because I have got consciousness, you have got consciousness, we are living soul, therefore the Supreme Soul, He has got His consciousness, and that is unlimited consciousness.
So that spiritual existence—Prahlāda Mahārāja, he is giving hint here that "We have got three stages of our existence. Sometimes we are active, sometimes we are sleeping, and sometimes we are deeply sleeping. But within these three stages of our existence, I am there." When I am active, I am there. When I am sleeping, I am dreaming, I am there. And when I am in deep sleep, I am there. And when again, I am awakened, I am there. In no case I am not there. I am there always. So buddher jāgaraṇam. So one has to apply his good intelligence. Then this "I am," which is existing in all the stages, that is "I am spirit soul." Tā yenaivānubhūyante. I am... I am perceiving that "Oh, yesterday I was sleeping." That sleeping condition is passed, but I am here. I am thinking, "Oh, I was sleeping yesterday like this. I was dreaming like this." Therefore, I am the chief, adhyakṣaḥ. I am the chief controller. So I am... This "I am," it is very easy to understand. Any intelligent man can understand. So there are so many yogis. They are trying to understand, "What I am?" This is "I am." It can be understood in a few seconds if you are intelligent enough.
You can perceive the activities of the soul even in your present state. That I am explaining, that the soul's activities is to serve. So we are serving dog. We have to serve God. That is soul's activities, real. Simply the difference is that instead of dog, we have to change the word—"God." The service is already there. Your activities are already there. You are not stopped. It is not a new thing. Service is already there. Just like India has become independent, or you have become independent. Now, there were government servants. Before independence declared, they were servant in the same office. And now the Britishers have gone away, Indians are controlling their own management. The same servant is there. Now he's thinking, "I am independent." And what independence? You are serving here still. In the British period, you also served, and you are serving. What is your independence? "Oh, now I am serving my own country." That's all, rubberstamp change. For imperial government, "His Majesty," now the rubber is "India government." The rubber stamp is changed. So you have to change your rubber stamp. Instead of serving dog, you have to serve God. That's all. Change your rubber stamp. Is it very difficult? So please try to change your rubber stamp. That's all. Yes.
So this is the process. God not dead. God cannot be dead. This is all foolishness. God is there. How you can conceive, how you can perceive that God is not dead? There is sufficient symptom that God is not dead. Just like your body. If you are breathing, if your bodily functions are working nice, if there is blood, and if you are feeling, thinking, willing nicely, will the doctor say that you are dead? No. He will say, "No. All the symptoms of life are present there, so he is not dead. He is alive." Similarly, if you have got that talent to test how God is alive, that is very simple. The whole cosmic manifestation, the whole gigantic body of God is working so nicely. The sun is rising in time, the moon is rising in time, the seasonal changes are taking place in time, the planets are moving. Everything is in order. How you can say that God is dead? What is your reason? No. God is not dead. God is alive, and you can meet also God because He is a person and you are a person. Just like here, if you try, you can meet the greatest personality of this material world, say, the president. It is not difficult. You have to simply arrange your meeting. Similarly, you can meet God face to face, just we are meeting here face to face. Simply you have to make arrangement. That's all.
Yes. Just like in a diseased condition of your eyes you cannot see. In diseased condition of your hands you cannot touch. In diseased condition of your legs you cannot walk. All your senses, in diseased condition, cannot work. Similarly, in material diseased condition you cannot understand what is God. You have to cure yourself from this diseased condition. Then you will see, you will touch, you will perceive, you will know, you will feel—everything. Those who are unable to cure the disease, they want to kill. Just like a patient is suffering in very bad type of disease. The physician cannot kill, then..., cannot cure him, then he thinks, "Let me die. Let me commit suicide." So this voidism or impersonalism is a symptom of frustration, not being able to cure the disease. But actually, the living entity is eternal. Just like a rascal or foolish man thinks that "I am suffering so much. Let me commit suicide, and it will be a great relief." It is foolishness. He will be put into further torture after this life. He will become a ghost. So because they do not know that living creature is eternal, therefore they want to make the ultimate solution as void, zero. But it cannot be zero. It is not possible, because you are eternal. Therefore you have to cure. And that curing process is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (aside:) Ṛṣi Kumar? Why you are there? Come here. (chuckles) All right. Any other questions? Yes, try to understand nicely. Yes.
In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that this, this process of devotional service to the Lord, is pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyaṁ. There are many types of religious principles or religiousness, but here is the religion which you can directly perceive. Which you can directly perceive. Pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyaṁ. And su-sukhaṁ. Su-sukhaṁ means very easy to perform, very easy. Anyone, even a child, can perform. Su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam. Avyayam means imperishable. If you chant for a minute, it will never go in vain. Avyayam. It will never go in vain. A great opportunity. So we should take this opportunity. Pratya Rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyam. This is called rāja-vidyā, the knowledge, the king of all knowledge. Rāja-guhyam, the king of all confidential things. Rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ pavitraṁ paramam idam, and very pure, and sublime. Pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyaṁ, and it is directly perceived, su-sukham, and very easy to perform, avyayam, never to be destroyed. Whatever you do, that is your asset. If you do one percent, that is your asset. So actually it is so. So our request is that you take up this chanting and be happy. (end)
So what is the value of this form? This form will be changed after few years. As soon as I give up this body this form is changed. Just like we change our dress. Therefore He hasn't got a form like this to be changed. Therefore He's sometimes called nirākāra. Ākāra is there, and that is also explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā that īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has got a form, sir? How you say that He is the Supreme? Brahman is the Supreme." No. He has form certainly. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. His form is not like you and me. Sac-cid-ānanda. His form is eternal, full of bliss, and full of knowledge. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ anādir. He has no source. He has no source. He is original. He is the source of everything, anādir ādir, and He is the original Govinda. Govinda means He gives pleasure. How do you perceive pleasure? Through your senses.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
So we should be very careful. If we are... Because our only business is yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, to increase our loving propensity for Kṛṣṇa, Adhokṣaja, who is beyond the reach of our senses. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Adhokṣaja, "beyond the reaches of senses." Anubhāva. We can perceive Kṛṣṇa's there, but not that by our senses. We can touch, we can see, we can smell. That we shall do as we increase, as we purify our senses. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Brs. 1.2.234). Not immediately. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī. He was talking with his Deity. So as we make advancement in spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa will talk with us directly. The Deity will talk with you. There are many instances. In Vṛndāvana, there was Gopāla, Sākṣi-Gopāla. He has now gone to Orissa. He talked with His devotees, and went with His devotee. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us chance to touch Him, to see Him, to smell Him, to taste Him. By so many ways. This is called arcana-mārga. And gradually, when we advance, it will be directly. Just like we are directly talking. That will be possible. So patiently, by following the regulative principles... Sādhu-mārgānugamanam.
So actually this is life. This Vṛndāvana life is actual life. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). What is this life, working so hard day and night, no, and discovering so many things, and as soon as the water supply is stopped, everything stops? The electricity will stopped, the electric train will stop, the lift will stop, the light will stop, and everything, there will be havoc. You see? So this artificial life is not actual life. We are perceiving. Suppose there have been no rain for one or two years. There is a time when for hundreds of years there will be no rain. You have to wait for that time. That time is coming at the end of Kali-yuga. For hundreds of years there will be no rain, and everything on the earth will be burned into ashes. Not only there will be rain, but the sunshine will be twelve times hot, twelve times hotter than the present. The temperature will increase. These are stated in the Bhāgavata. Then everything will be turned into ashes. And then there will be torrents of rain. So these descriptions are there.
Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. Beginning from tongue, Kṛṣṇa-bhakti begins. It may be very awkward to hear, that "By tongue, how bhakti begins?" But that is the statement in the śāstras. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). Our present senses, blunt, materially covered, it cannot taste what is Kṛṣṇa's name, what is Kṛṣṇa's form, what is Kṛṣṇa's quality, what is Kṛṣṇa's pastime, what is Kṛṣṇa's paraphernalia. Senses, they taste. But... Just like in, when one is suffering from liver disease, or jaundice, he cannot taste the sugar candy. The sugar candy is sweet, but a jaundiced patient, if he's given sugar candy, he'll taste it is bitter. Similarly, our senses being covered with material consciousness, we cannot at the present moment taste what is Kṛṣṇa's form, what is Kṛṣṇa's name, what is Kṛṣṇa's quality, what is Kṛṣṇa's pastime, what is Kṛṣṇa's paraphernalia, so many things. It is not possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). Our senses are materially contaminated. Therefore we cannot directly perceive by using our present senses what is Kṛṣṇa. So it has to be purified.
Similarly, if you decorate the Deity gorgeously, you will feel happy. Kṛṣṇa has many devotees, or many things for being decorated. But if you, in the temple, if you offer Kṛṣṇa all nice things, all nice flowers, all nice dress, all nice food, everything, everything, all nice, then you will feel happy. That is your interest. Therefore pure devotional service is the only means to attract Kṛṣṇa. Attract Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa will be happy in this way, that you are doing so much for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has everything, but your devotional service, that sincerity of purpose, will attract. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Do not try to see Kṛṣṇa. Render your service in such a nice way that let Kṛṣṇa see you." When Kṛṣṇa sees you, then your mission is perfect. We cannot see... Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136)]. We cannot perceive Kṛṣṇa by our senses, but when our senses are engaged in satisfying Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa sees us. Svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ. And when Kṛṣṇa sees us, then our life is successful. And how Kṛṣṇa can see us? Simply by our devotional service. Otherwise, you cannot satisfy Kṛṣṇa by opulence, by education, by scholarship, by beauty, riches. No. These things Kṛṣṇa has all perfectly. He's full with all these opulences. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). If you want to attract Kṛṣṇa, then be engaged in pure devotional service.
Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
That is the version of Śrī Svarūpa Dāmodara, that "Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, They are one, Kṛṣṇa." When Kṛṣṇa wants to enjoy, He manifests His energy. That is Rādhārāṇī. Kṛṣṇa cannot enjoy the material energy; He enjoys the internal energy. Kṛṣṇa has got many energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate, svābhāvakī-jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). That is the Vedic version, that the Supreme Absolute Truth has got multi-energies, and by utilizing, manipulating that energy, He is manifesting Himself in so many ways. The same example: just like the sun, by expanding its energy, heat and light, is perceived. The sun is ninety-three million miles away from us. So how we can understand the sun? By his heat and energy. By his heat, we can calculate what is the actual temperature. The scientists are calculating the actual temperature of the sun. So similarly, although Kṛṣṇa is far, far away from us... Goloka eva nivasati. He's residing in His abode, Goloka, Vṛndāvana. This is the replica of that Vṛndāvana.
Bhavānanda: (reading) "The attention of a pure devotee is so much attracted to glorification of the pastimes, name, qualities, forms, and so forth of the Lord that the devotee does not care for mukti. Śrī Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura has said, 'If I am engaged in devotional service unto You, my dear Lord, then very easily can I perceive Your presence everywhere. And as far as liberation is concerned, I think liberation stands at my door with folded hands, waiting to serve me.' "
Prabhupāda: Yes. By chanting the mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), gradually we become cleansed of all dirty things within our heart. Thus our mind becomes purified. And in the purified condition of the mind we can think of Kṛṣṇa rightly. In this way, Kṛṣṇa becomes practically dependent on the devotees. Kṛṣṇa is the master, controller of everything, but to the pure devotee He becomes dependent. So why the pure devotee will ask for anything else? Adurlabham ātma-bhaktau. For a devotee, Kṛṣṇa is within the palms of a devotee. Ajita, jito 'py asau. Although Kṛṣṇa is not conquerable, but He likes to be conquered by His devotee. That is the position. Just like He willingly placed Himself to be conquered by Mother Yaśodā, to be conquered by Rādhārāṇī, to be conquered by His friends. Kṛṣṇa became defeated and He has to take His friend on the shoulder. Practically sometimes we see that a king keeps a joker amongst his associates, and sometimes the joker insults the king, and the king enjoys. The joker sometimes... Just like there is a famous joker, Gopāla Bon, in Bengal. So one day the king asked him, "Gopāla, what is the difference between you and an ass?" So he immediately measured the distance from the king. He said, "It is three feet only, sir. The difference is only three feet." So everyone began to laugh. And the king enjoyed that insult. Because sometimes it is required.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu is describing His practical experience about chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. When He saw Himself that "I am getting almost like a madman," so He again approached His spiritual master and submitted, "My dear sir, I do not know what kind of chanting you have asked Me." Because He's representing always as a fool, He's presenting that He could not perceive, He could not understand what is happening, but He submitted that "These are the symptoms I have developed. Sometimes I cry. Sometimes I laugh. Sometimes I dance. These are some of the symptoms. So I think I have become mad."
kibā mantra dilā, gosāñi, kibā tāra bala
- japite japite mantra karila pāgala
"I do not know what sort of mantra you have given Me, but it appears that I have become almost like a madman."
Amṛṣā. It is false. But it appears to be just like real. Foolish living entities, under the spell of illusory energy, they have accepted this false exchange of material elements as reality. This is called materialism. One who has accepted this false representation of reality, they are called materialists. And one who knows the real position of this material world, he's spiritualist. That is the difference between materialism and spiritualism. So this, this material representation, false representation, are temporary. The Vaiṣṇava philosophy, they do not say false. Why they will say false? God is real. His energy is real. You cannot say material energy as unreal, because God is there, and His energy is there. Just like the fire is there, the heat is there, the temperature is there. You cannot say temperature false. It may be manifested at some time. Or it may not manifest. Just like the temperature of sun is not perceived nowadays because it is due to the (?) cold season. But the temperature is the same, but it is manifested during June-July. It is very strongly, and other seasons, it is not manifested. Similarly, this material energy, you cannot say that it is false. It is false. The Vaiṣṇava philosophy is perfect. As the temperature (indistinct), it is sometimes manifested. And this is called taṭasthā. This characteristic, this symptom of the Supreme Lord, is called taṭasthā. Sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But, so far the superior energy is concerned, that is always manifested. That is explained in the next line. Dhāmnā svena sadā nirasta-kuhakaṁ paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Now that is paraṁ satyam, the Supreme Truth, where there is no such temporary manifestation.
Lord Caitanya's pastimes going on, still going on, but some of the fortunate devotees, they can see. Anything, God's pastimes, that is perceivable through devotional service. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Only way. This is the process. No other process. No amount of speculation, no amount of academic education, no amount of philosophical discussion can..., one can... It is confirmed in the Vedic literature: nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhya, na bahunā śrutena. Na ayam ātmā... This self-realization is not possible. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhya, simply by discussion, nobody can arrive. Nobody can understand what is self-realization, what is Supreme Soul, the Absolute Truth. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena, na medhayā. Medhayā means one who is, who has got very good brain substance, he also cannot. Simply by agitating the brain, brain substance, one cannot understand. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhya, na bahunā śrutena, na medhayā. Śrutena, one who is highly educated, very good scholar, he also cannot understand. Then, what is the pro...? Janena saba puruṣe tena labhya: a person to whom God reveals Himself, he can understand. So we have to wait for that and for God's mercy. We have to be engaged in loving, transcendental service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then He'll reveal.
Even if you are in the consciousness of impersonal Brahman, there is far advanced stage. What is that? Or Paramātmā, the Supersoul understanding. And when you are in the Supersoul understanding you have to go further, because the Supersoul is a reflection, reflection. Of course, there is no difference between the reflection and the substance in the spiritual world. Still, it is reflection. Just like the sun. Sun is on your head, but his reflection can be perceived by everyone standing within this, I mean to say, under the sun. Suppose you are here. The sun is above your head, and you ask other persons who are five thousand miles or five hundred miles away from you, "Where is sun?" he will say that "Sun is on my head." So everyone will say, "Sun is on my head." Similarly, although sun is one, he is perceived that he is in everyone's heart, er, everyone's head. Similarly, the Lord, although He is one, He is situated in Vaikuṇṭha, but He is Brahman. He is the greatest. He is greater than the, far million, million times or unlimited timely greater than sun. Then He is reflected in everyone's heart. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Īśvara, that Supreme Personality of Godhead, is situated in the heart of every living being.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
He's open to be seen by everyone, whether he knows and whether he does not know what is God. This arcā-vigraha is not idol; it is not imagination. They are... The knowledge is received from the superior ācāryas. Brahma-saṁhitā: veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣam (Bs. 5.30). The description is there. So God realization, if you follow that... Immediately, by your blunt senses, either God, His form, His name, His quality, His paraphernalia cannot be perceived. The present senses are blunt. Therefore in the present situation or the civilization they have become godless, because naturally they have no power to understand God, neither they are guided by some persons who can make them understand what is God. Therefore people are becoming godless, atheist. But if you read all these Vedic literatures under superior guidance, if you follow the rules and regulation, then svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. God will be revealed unto you. You cannot see God or understand God by your own endeavor. You have to surrender to the process by which God can be known. Then He will be revealed. Otherwise not. He is supreme controller. You are being controlled. So how you can control God? "Oh, God, please come here. I will see You." No, no. God is not so cheap thing that by your order God will come and become seen by you. No. That is not possible. You must always know that "He's the supreme controller and I am also controlled. So if I can please God by my service, then He'll reveal to me." That is the process of knowing God.
Thank you very much. (end)
So three energies. He has got multi-energies. All the multi-energies grouped in three headings: antaraṅga-śakti, bahiraṅga-śakti, taṭastha-śakti. Antaraṅga-śakti means internal energy, bahiraṅga śakti means external energy, and taṭastha-śakti means these living entities. We are śakti; we are energy. We are not the energetic. The Māyāvādī philosopher says that because the energies are not outside Brahman, therefore they're all the same. This is monism. Our Vaiṣṇava philosophy is that energy (is) simultaneously one and different. When you perceive heat, we understand, "Oh, there is fire." But that does not mean that because I am getting some heat, I am on the fire. Try to understand this philosophy. Therefore here it is said vijānataḥ.
So their ekatvam, Māyāvāda philosophy's ekatvam, oneness, and our ekatvam of oneness—a little different. They say that the energy's false; the Brahman is real. Brahmā satyaṁ jagan mithyā. We say that because Brahman is truth, therefore His energy's also truth. That is the difference between Vaiṣṇava philosophy and Māyāvāda philosophy. We cannot say that energy is false. Energy is temporary; this external energy is temporary, not false. Although... Suppose we have got some trouble.
Festival Lectures
So spiritual knowledge is beyond the scope of our sense speculation. Beyond the scope. Just like when a soul, a spiritual spark only, leaves this body, you cannot see. Therefore, atheistic class of men, they speculate, "There may be a soul; there may not be soul." Or, "The bodily function was going like this; now it stopped. The blood corpuscles now cease. It is no more red; it is white; therefore life..." These are speculation. This is not actual knowledge. Actual knowledge you get from the authority, Kṛṣṇa. He says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati. Just like the soul is passing through different stages. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Deha, deha means this body. Asmin dehe, in this body, there is dehi. Dehi means who is the owner of this body. That is soul. That is passing through childhood, boyhood, babyhood, youthhood, old age. Everyone, you can perceive that you were a child, you were a baby, you were a boy. Now you are young man or old man. So you are there. So as you are passing through different types of bodies, similarly, when you give up this body you accept another body. What is the difficulty? Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). There is no question of becoming astonished, how transmigration of the self, soul, takes place. The vivid example is there. Simply you require little intelligence.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
Jayatīrtha: So much dust.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The whole thing is being done by the mercy of your books, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Well, it is not my book; it is Kṛṣṇa's book. I am trying my best to present it as it is. That's all. That much you can say my, but there is nothing mine.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The effect of these books is hard to perceive immediately because we can't imagine how... So many millions of books have gone out. In the future they will all fructify as devotees, the people who have read them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When they will read, then they will get. Nowadays in the Sixth Canto, Fourth Chapter, the soul and how the soul is covered, that is being described wonderfully. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. It is written by the most learned Vyāsadeva, vidvāṁs, and sātvata-saṁhitām. How merciful he was. He is still living, Vyāsadeva. He is still existing.
Initiation Lectures
So there is a great need of this movement, and we are spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and this is practical, very easy, and just suitable for this age. It doesn't consider how much you are qualified. It doesn't consider. Whatever your past life may be, you simply come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa with your tongue—God has given you a tongue—and taste Kṛṣṇa prasāda, Love Feast, and make your life successful. Very easy process. So this is our program. So invite anyone to join this movement, and you'll be benefited. And you will see practically. It is pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that this process of self-realization is directly perceivable. Directly perceivable. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. Just like when you eat, you can understand that you are eating, you can understand that your hunger is being satisfied, you can understand that you are getting strength. So you haven't got to take certificate. You can yourself understand it is so nice thing. Pratyakṣāvagamam. Pratyakṣa means directly, avagamam. You understand it directly. If you meditate, so-called meditation, you do not know how far you are making progress. You see. You are in oblivion. You do not know. But here, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you'll directly feel, directly feel. I have got so many students, so many letters, how they are feeling directly. It is so nice. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam (BG 9.2). And very nice to perform. Chant and dance and eat.
We are smaller than the atom. Nowadays there is atomic theory. We can see the atoms within the holes of the windows when there is focus of sunlight. That is called prasareṇu. Prasareṇu means six atoms combined together, then it is visible. Otherwise, atom is also not visible with our naked eyes. There is atomic theory, paramāṇuvāda, in Vedic literature also. And Bhāgavata says that the scientists may be one day able to count how many atoms are there within this universe. This is not possible, of course, but it is theoretically. The Vedic, er, Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that "It may be possible one day by scientific research, one can count how many atoms are there within this cosmic manifestation. Still, it is not possible to know the Supreme Personality of Godhead by our ordinary sense perception." Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). Kṛṣṇa, or God, is not perceivable by your material senses. It is not possible. Ataḥ, therefore, śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. Nāmādi. Nāmādi means "beginning from His name." Because we try to understand Kṛṣṇa beginning by chanting His holy name, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then, after chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, when our heart is purified, then we can understand His form, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1).
General Lectures
Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna, he was a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, a friend of Kṛṣṇa. Perhaps you know it. So in the beginning he did not like to fight. He denied. So any devotee of God or Kṛṣṇa is not fond of war or fighting with any others. But if there is necessity, if Kṛṣṇa wants that fight, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa will accept such fight. If you think that your Vietnam fighting is ordered by Kṛṣṇa, then it is all right. If it is not, then it is not. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If Kṛṣṇa says, if God says, "This is right," we accept it right. If God says it is wrong, we accept it wrong. Because we think, we have poor fund of knowledge. We do not know what is right and wrong. Therefore if God says or Kṛṣṇa says this is right, we accept it right. If God says or Kṛṣṇa says it is wrong, we accept it wrong. Yes?
Student (6): In order for one body to perceive another body, you need your eye. You have to look and see the other person and another person... In order for a body to perceive itself, it needs a mirror. But how does one body perceive its soul?
Prabhupāda: Yes. When you see your body you think that "This is my finger, this is my hand, this is my head, this is my chest, this is my leg." You see simply you will find, "This is my, this is my, this is my." But if you try to find out "Then what is I?" then you will find out. That is called self-realization. We are simply now engrossed with things "my," but we do not know what is "I." The identification of myself or I with this body is wrong. The identification of I with the mind is also wrong. The identification of I with intelligence is also wrong. When you actually come to the platform of spiritual understanding, then you understand that "I am neither this body, neither the senses, neither this mind, nor intelligence, but I am spirit soul."
Prabhupāda: Here is the surety. As soon as you see that you're free from all anxiety, then it is sure that you have realized yourself.
Student (7): Well how can you be sure you're free from all anxiety if you're incapable of perceiving happiness? And to perceive happiness, you...
Prabhupāda: Well, you have to follow the process. Then you will feel. Just like if you are diseased, if you have to be under the treatment of the physician and you have to take medicine, and when you're actually free, you will yourself feel, "Yes, I am free." But without going under treatment of an expert physician, or taking the medicine, how you can be free from disease? Yes?
Even the great scientists who have discovered many wonderful scientific contributions could not trace out about the personal self, which is the cause of such wonderful discoveries. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement basically is trying to reach this science of the soul—not in any dogmatic way, but in complete scientific and philosophical understanding.
You can find out the background of this body as the soul and the soul's presence as perceived, perceivable by consciousness. Similarly, the presence of Supersoul and superconsciousness in the universal body of cosmic manifestation is perceived by the presence of the Supreme Lord, or the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth is systematically experienced in the Vedānta-sūtra, generally known as the Vedānta philosophy, which is elaborately explained by a commentary by the same author of the Vedānta-sūtras known as the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to understand the constitutional position of the Supreme Lord, or the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding, namely as Brahman, or the impersonal universal soul; Paramātmā, or the localized universal soul; and at the end as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. An individual soul is understood in three aspects, namely first in the consciousness pervading all over the body, then as the spirit soul within the heart, and ultimately exhibited as a person.
This is a verse from Vedic scripture, Bṛhan-nāradīya Purāṇa, that "In this age, if you want to realize yourself, then the simplest process is to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.' ' It has got so transcendental power that simply by participating in this chanting process, gradually you will come to the highest stage of transcendental position. How it happens? That is also described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:
- śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
- puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ
- hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi
- vidhunoti suhṛt satām
- (SB 1.2.17)
Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is present before you in three features. Simply you have to make your senses perfect to perceive it. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is a person, a person like you, like me. Just like we are facing each other, similarly, when you are spiritually perfect, you will be able to see Kṛṣṇa exactly like face to face.
Prabhupāda: Are you not conscious of your childhood?
Devotee (1): Am I conscious of... My body's being constantly changing?
Prabhupāda: You are conscious, but you do not perceive it.
Devotee (1): Can the living entity perceive the situation at this time, when he's being transferred from one body to another?
Prabhupāda: So why you are thinking... Are you not assured that you are not transferred? You are not sure? When there is practically it is happening, what is the reason of your being doubtful?
Devotee (1): There's no doubtful. It's just here. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So many things happening in your body; are you aware of all these things?
Devotee (1): No.
Prabhupāda: Then, similarly, it is happening. Why do you ask such question? So many things are happening in your body. You do not know how it is happening. Therefore it is called prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). The nature is doing. You are completely in the hands of the nature. How, after shaving, how your hairs are growing, do you know?
So if we want to learn some specific subject we have to accept a proper authority or a bona fide teacher. Similarly if we want to learn the science of God, we have to approach a person who knows the science. Not that a casual person takes one Bhagavad-gītā and writes his comment and it goes on for some ulterior purpose. In that way you cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. And Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is situated in everyone's heart. So as soon as you are actually a devotee... He is everyone's heart but He is silent. But as soon as one is devotee, one is inclined to serve Kṛṣṇa, at that time He gives him intelligence. He does not give intelligence... He gives others intelligence in a different way, as we want. Everyone, because we are free, so as we want. Because without sanction of Kṛṣṇa, we cannot do anything. Therefore one has to take sanction from Kṛṣṇa for doing anything. So for others He gives sanction, "All right. You do it." Because He will see. Kṛṣṇa does not say that you do it because He perceives that I must do it. So Kṛṣṇa gives the sanction. That is one sanction. But there is another sanction, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is sanction for the devotees. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10). Teṣām. "For those who are twenty-four hours engaged in My service."
This is spoken in the Brahma-saṁhitā by Lord Brahmā. He says that "The devotee whose eyes are smeared with the ointment of love of Godhead..." Just like we sometimes use surma for clarifying our eyesight, similarly, one whose eyesight is purified... We have to purify the position of our senses in order to perceive. With our present senses, materialistic senses, we cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, or God. It is not possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). He is not... Kṛṣṇa is not perceivable by our material senses. "Then why you are troubling so much, because you have nothing but material senses?" No. It can be purified. How it can be purified? By love of God. When you evolve your dormant love of Godhead, your vision becomes different. That is called premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). They are also yogis. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ (BG 6.47). The same process. Either you go through the haṭha-yoga process or jñāna-yoga process, the ultimate goal is Kṛṣṇa, ultimate goal is Viṣṇu.
As friend, He is sitting in the heart of all living entities. He is sitting in your heart, He is sitting in my heart, He is sitting in the ant's heart. The ant has also heart and the elephant has got also heart. Sometimes we find an insect exactly like a full stop. You have got experience. Sometimes when you open your book you find. They are called bookworm, they're very small, but it is moving. And because it is moving, from biological study we must conclude that it has got a heart. Even we do not know about biology, but Kṛṣṇa said that īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). So, therefore, there must be some heart. We cannot perceive. We cannot see even the whole figure of that insect, and what to speak of study what kind of heart it has got. But we understand Bhagavad-gītā..., from Bhagavad-gītā that there is heart even in the smallest insect, in the microscopic germ, there is heart. So He is sitting in everyone's heart and He is supplying the necessities of that smaller creature or the biggest creature. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29).
We cannot apply experimental knowledge to find out who is my father. That is not possible. But how we can know? The know it, I can know from the authority of the mother. The mother says, "This gentleman is your father," we have to accept. There is no other experimental... Similarly, the soul, which is beyond the perception of your material senses, you cannot make an experiment. You have no means. But you try to perceive that what is that thing, missing, that now the body is dead. Now, there is something. What is that something? That you have to learn from the authority, Kṛṣṇa. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). There is a dehī, there is a proprietor of this body, and he's changing from one body to another. This you have to understand from the authority. From experimental, you have not learned it, never you'll be able to learn it, not the scientists can discover. If they could discover, then no man would die. The medical science, if it could discover... So there are so many anomalies. Therefore you have to learn it only from the authority, and there is no other way. Śruti-pramāṇam. Śruti-pramāṇa means evidence from the Vedic knowledge. There is no other way.
So our business should be how to get out of this material energy and put ourself under the spiritual energy. Then our life will be fully satisfied. So in this human life, this is a prerogative, how to get out of this material energy and put again into the spiritual energy. So this process is described: sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). To put ourself again into the spiritual energy means we have to get free from the designation. What are the designation? "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that"—these are designation. And to become free from designation means "I do not belong to any of these categories. I am eternal servant of God." If you come to that position, then that is the common platform. Let everyone perceive that he is eternal servant of God. Then all the problems will be solved.
So this is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and we are chanting the holy name of God, and we are recommending others also to chant the holy name of God. God must be, must have some name. In the Bible also it is said... What is that? "Hallowed be thy name"?
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: Yes. So far direct perception is concerned, it is like that. But indirect perception, taken from authorities, that is different.
Śyāmasundara: He distrusts any kind of authority and says that the only kind of things that we can know for sure are mathematical proofs and immediate sense perceptions. Like we can perceive that there is time and there is space, like that. That is the only knowledge he will admit.
Prabhupāda: And beyond the time and space?
Śyāmasundara: We can't know anything.
Prabhupāda: You cannot, but there is a process. You cannot know; that does not mean beyond the mind is relative time and perception. Just like a small insect, he takes birth in the evening, and from evening to morning, his birth, his marriage, his begetting children, everything is done, and in the morning he dies. There are many insects. They are called diwali pokali. At night they will throng together, in India. So for this insect, it is very difficult to understand that there is another animal which is called man, who has got this duration of his lifetime period in only twelve hours of his life. But the insect cannot go beyond that. Just like when we hear from Bhagavad-gītā that Brahmā lives such-and-such, we disbelieve sometimes. But everything is relative. With your relative body, your duration of life, your knowledge, your perception, everything is relative. So you are teeny human being. What is impossible for you is not impossible for others. He is talking from the relative platform.
Prabhupāda: Transcendental knowledge means knowledge received from a source which is beyond the reach of my material senses. That is transcendental. Just like we are reading Bhagavad-gītā. So we have no knowledge that there is a spiritual world, but Kṛṣṇa says that there is another nature, a spiritual nature, beyond this material nature. So we understand through the source of transcendental knowledge. We cannot experience. That is explained, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. God, His name, His qualities, His pastimes—nothing can be understood by these material senses. But if you engage yourself in service, they become revealed. That will become confirmed: "Yes, there is Vaikuṇṭha, there is Vṛndāvana, where Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are going on, and I am perceiving myself." These things become revealed gradually, not abruptly you can understand. Therefore common men cannot understand that they say " 'Going back to home, back to Godhead?' What nonsense they are saying?" They cannot understand, because it is transcendental, beyond the reach of these gross senses. But it is revealed: sevonmukhe. If you become submissive, if you engage yourself in the service of the Lord, guru-Kṛṣṇa, and the spiritual master, then these things become revealed. Now one who has got the knowledge by revelation, nobody can mislead him. Just like we believe in the transcendental abode, cintāmaṇi, Goloka Vṛndāvana. If somebody pays out millions of dollars and asks you to forget all these things, we cannot do that. If you give him hundreds and thousands of dollars, that "You believe in this," no, he will not believe. That is transcendental knowledge. So transcendental knowledge is not speculation. It is receiving from higher authority and gradually, by your service attitude, things become clear to you. That is transcendental.
Śyāmasundara: So one could understand about Kṛṣṇa perhaps if he was unable to receive from outside?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is everything, outside and inside. Inside He is Paramātmā, outside He is spiritual master. So Kṛṣṇa is trying to help the conditioned soul both ways-outside and inside. Therefore spiritual master is representative of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa comes outside as spiritual master, and inside He is personally there.
Śyāmasundara: So according to Kant, the first or basic stage is that one perceives objects and gives them concepts of time and space. Then the second step is called transcendental analytic. In other words, human understanding changes these perceptions into conceptions or ideas, which possess analytical unity. In other words, the mind applies categories to whatever it perceives. And there are four categories that he describes: quantity, quality, relationship and modality.
Prabhupāda: What is modality?
Śyāmasundara: Modality means whether it is possible or impossible; whether it is existent or nonexistent; whether it is necessary or dependent. Like that.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Śyāmasundara: It's like you say: morality may help him to transcend. He is beginning to perceive behind this moral law.
Prabhupāda: No. From this instance we find that Arjuna was trying to become moral, not killing his own men; but that did not help him. Rather, by directly abiding by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, he transcended morality. So morality does not always help.
Śyāmasundara: In this particular case of Kant, he begins to perceive that behind morality there is something higher. He says that even though a man is sinful...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly there is higher. That highness is within this material world. There are two stages, two platforms: transcendental platform and physical platform. That highness is physical. Just like Mahatma Gandhi. He was known as a very high-class man, but he was a materialist, that's all. By his pious activities he may be elevated materially. Just like if you act piously, giving charity, then next birth you get very nice opulent birth, you are born in a rich family, you get enough money. But that is not the solution of your conditional life. To take birth in this family does not mean he hasn't got to undergo the process of birth, the pains of birth, the pains of death. But real problem is that I want to stop these pains of birth, death, old age and disease. Hari me nana mitinatante (?). Without love of Kṛṣṇa, nobody can escape these material conditions of life.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa.
Kīrtanānanda: That which is giving rise to your perception of something material is actually spirit. The cause of what you are perceiving is spirit. But what you are perceiving is material.
Prabhupāda: Just like gold. Now you have made an earring. You say it is earring but, it may be earring but it is gold. Another example is, just like earth, earth. So you may take dirt and make a pot. So, and a doll, so many things, varieties. So we say it is doll, it is pot, it is this, it is that, but that is also earth. Is it not?
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And when it is broken, then it is again earth. In any condition it is earth.
Śyāmasundara: This pot and this brick, these are not images then, they are dirt, they are...
Prabhupāda: Then you make images. You make images, but when you make images, that is also earth. And when it is broken, that is also earth. And originally it is earth. Sarvam khalv idaṁ brahma. The three conditions: formless condition, form, and again, what it is called-merging. In three conditions it is earth. Aham evāsam evāgre, in the Bhāgavata Kṛṣṇa says, "I existed in the beginning of creation, I maintain the creation, and when the creation is broken, I exist."
Līlāvatī: So those eternally liberated souls in the spiritual sky will never come here because they choose not to. It's not that... (indistinct) they never choose to come here.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. They never choose. They are very experienced. (laughter)
Śyāmasundara: Bergson says that this quality of the soul can only be perceived by man's intuition, not by his senses, but by his intuition.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nice. Soul cannot be experienced by senses, but we can understand when there is a dead man, we can perceive that there was soul, which is now absent; therefore the body is dead. This is called perception.
Śyāmasundara: The dictionary defines intuition as "immediate apprehension by the mind without any reasoning."
Prabhupāda: That is experience. That is experience. Intuition means mature experience. Just like when as soon as there is mosquito, my hand immediately sees. You can say it is intuition, but it is experience, that when there is mosquito my hand must go there and try to kill him. But the experience is so mature that without consideration the hand goes.
Hayagrīva: And there's no need for a search for individuality.
Prabhupāda: Individual, he is always individual. Perpetually.
Hayagrīva: Yes. Concerning the creation, Bergson speaks of impulsion and attraction, and he says, "The causal relation between God and the world is seen as an attraction when regarded from below, as an impulsion or a contact when regarded from above. Therefore we perceive God as an efficient, that is a beginning, cause or as a final cause, according to the point of view." That is, we can see things either..., the creation coming from God or moving toward God, depending on our viewpoint.
Prabhupāda: No. Creation is..., God is always there. Before the creation and when the creation is finished, there is God. So God is not one of the creation. In the creation there are so many things coming out, so God is not one of the products of creation because He is created. He was before creation and He will exist to continue after annihilation. This is the Vedic knowledge.
Hayagrīva: Yes. This is, this is what he is saying.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Śyāmasundara: A little bit. The first one's name is Jeremy Bentham, and his philosophy is that virtue is defined in terms of utility, and that utility is defined as that which enhances the happiness of men. So that the goal of society, according to the utilitarians, is the greatest happiness for the greatest number.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is also our aim but that happiness is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, sukham ātyantikaṁ yat. Ātyantikam. Atyantikam means the greatest happiness. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya grāhyam (BG 6.21). That happiness can be perceived by transcendental senses.
Śyāmasundara: So you're talking about a qualitative happiness, the quality of happiness.
Prabhupāda: Yah, qualitative it must be. Ātyantikam. Ātyantikam means the actual, the greatest happiness.
Śyāmasundara: Greatest, highest happiness.
Prabhupāda: Happiness everyone wants. You are feeling happy by eating something but if you get another better thing, you feel more happiness.
Śyāmasundara: Quality of happiness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not the quality of happiness. You feel actually greater happiness. Just like you are taking ordinary sugar, but if you take rasagullā, it is also sweet but it is greater happiness.
Śyāmasundara: Quantity or...
Prabhupāda: No. The happiness, greater happiness, yeah, quantity you can say.
Śyāmasundara: Quantity, quantity of happiness is greater.
Prabhupāda: Yes, greater happiness. So that greatest happiness can be perceived by transcenden... Happiness means satisfying the senses. Real... Happiness means satisfying the senses. So sense gratification. But the actual sense gratification, the greatest sense gratification is to be derived by your transcendental senses, not these gross senses. Sometimes these gross senses... Take for example rasagullā. You are eating but after eating four, five or ten you'll feel, "No more." That is not ātyantikam happiness. Happiness means you are enjoying something, you increase more and more and more enjoy, more enjoy, more enjoy, more enjoy. That is happiness. So whether this man knows what is happiness, that is the... He does not know what is happiness. He thinks in terms of sense gratification.
Śyāmasundara: Physical senses.
Prabhupāda: Physical. But physical senses cannot actually cannot give you the greatest happiness. Just like a man is sensuous. So he can enjoy one woman, two women, but he cannot enjoy unlimitedly. But our standard of happiness means "which is increasingly unlimited." That is happiness. Therefore it is said, ramante yogino 'nante satyānande cid-ātmani. Those who are yogis, they enjoy. So enjoyment... Without enjoyment, nothing is relished. Just like you are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is some enjoyment, transcendental bliss. Otherwise how you can stick to it? So real happiness means "which is increasingly unlimited." That is happiness.
Śyāmasundara: If we see a phenomenon like the rain falling or anything, and we want to apply the test that will prove that God is the cause of that phenomenon, what test do we apply?
Prabhupāda: The śāstras, the Vedic literature is there, the Upaniṣads are there, books are there, śāstra cakṣuṣa. You have to see it through the śāstras. That is the injunction. You cannot see directly. You have to see śāstra cakṣuṣa. Your eyes, they are defective. Just like if you read astrology, astronomy, then you can understand what is the actual volume or the bulk of the sun, but by your eyes you are seeing just a disc. So all your senses are defective. So directly seeing or perceiving or tasting has no value, because these are all defective. So we have to, it is said, you should see through śāstras, through authoritative instruction.
Śyāmasundara: So if we see the apple fall from the tree, the test that we apply is the sastric test. In order to see God in that act of falling, we have to see it through the eyes of the śāstras.
Prabhupāda: Now what do the scientists say—the law of gravity.
Śyāmasundara: Because his vision of a unified universe is evolving, then he ascribes that the universe itself is false...
Prabhupāda: No. The universe is not evolving. It is perfect since it was created. But because we have no perfect knowledge, you are thinking it is evolving.
Śyāmasundara: Because he... Because my observations of the universe are evolving toward a unity. This is his criterion for truth, that only that which I can perceive is true, or which I can experience.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What you can perceive, that may be wrong thing also, because you are not perfect. But because you have got a poor fund of knowledge, therefore you are thinking that imperfect thing it is also perfect.
Śyāmasundara: He says that... This is a quote...
Prabhupāda: Just like in the śāstras it is stated that the human beings, they are being controlled by the modes of passion, so they love to work very hard. And that hard working, they think it is happiness. Actually, everyone is working hard day and night, and because he is getting some money in return, he is thinking that "I am becoming happier." In exchange of a little money he is accepting that hard working is very good. But śāstra says that this hard working for some sense gratification is being done by the hogs and dogs. They are also working hard, and getting some remuneration for food and sense enjoyment. So that business is there already. So does it mean that a human being also works so hard, as a hog, simply to get his food and sense gratification? Suppose a big builder is working hard and getting money.
Śyāmasundara: He makes a few comments about religion. He says that "The religious experience is unique, and it enables the individual to realize that the world he perceives is part of a spiritual universe which alone gives the sensory world value, and that man's proper goal is to unite himself with that higher universe. That prayer or inner communion with the universal spirit or God is the means whereby spiritual energy flows in and produces effects, psychological or material, occurring in the phenomenal world. And that religious faith imparts a new zest to life, taking the form either of lyrical enchantment or of appeal to earnestness and heroism, and that religion contributes some assurance of safety and peace and teaches love in human relationships."
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Śyāmasundara: He says some nice things about...
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Śyāmasundara: But practically, the practical aspect of religion, that it imparts new zest to life, that it produces psychological and material effects, like that. But he didn't believe that God was unlimited. That was his... He believed that God was somehow limited; because there is evil, because evil exists, that God is somehow limited.
Prabhupāda: He does not know that evil does not exist independently. He does not know. In our śāstras it says that evil is the back side of God. But it is not independent of God. But either back side or front side, it is God; therefore it is absolute. I cannot neglect my back side. I cannot say that "You can beat me on my back side. Go on, kick me." That I cannot say. The back side is as important as the front side. But comparatively it is explained that evil is back side, pāpa, sin. That is back side of God.
Śyāmasundara: He says that this world is composed of two parts: idea and will. That the ideas are sense experiences that we perceive in the world, and they are mere representatives of the will, but the will is the ultimate reality.
Prabhupāda: That idea is illusion.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. But he says that will is the ultimate reality. Something is...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, will is ultimate reality, we also admit. Because we desire, we will like this. We will that we shall be enjoyer of the material world. Idea was that "I shall become like Kṛṣṇa." This was the idea, and therefore I will. And Kṛṣṇa gave us chance, "All right, you come here and fulfill your desire." So they are implicated in so many karma, and becoming more and more involved. So according to karma he is getting different types of body, and there is no end. It is going on.
Śyāmasundara: In order to find out what is a genuine proposition, he says that a genuine proposition presents the sense content and shows how things stand if it is true.
Prabhupāda: This is sense content, that sarvaṁ khalv, "Everything is Brahman." Everything is Brahman.
Śyāmasundara: But how does that give us sense content? What does that mean to my sense observations?
Devānanda: Isn't there a way... There is a way of perceiving that everything is Brahman. It can be perceived. We cannot perceive it now, but it can be perceived.
Prabhupāda: But the true knowledge, that ultimately Brahman is the ultimate cause. So Brahman has got different energies, and the multiple energies, they are combined together, and they manifest in different phases. Therefore Brahman is the cause of all causes. That is the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Brahman means wherefrom everything is emanating.
Śyāmasundara: But this statement, "Everything is Brahman," that seems to me devoid of sensory fact, of sense content. Therefore he says it is nonsensical, because I cannot experience it as a sensory experience. How does that have sense content, that statement?
Prabhupāda: That means whatever does not come through his senses, that is not true.
Śyāmasundara: Either direct or indirect. But how can I experience that statement that "Everything is Brahman"?
Prabhupāda: Indirect is there. Just like we accept that everything has got some cause. So I am a person; the cause is my person father, and his father is also person. Similarly, the ultimate father, the original father, although I have not seen, I cannot sense perceive, still, I must conclude that He is a person.
Śyāmasundara: But I think behind your statement "Everything is Brahman," there are also statements which show the person how to experience Brahman.
Prabhupāda: This is Brahman. Brahman means the greatest. Greatest.
Śyāmasundara: But when you say "Everything is Brahman," you are also willing to include another set of propositions which show how to experience Brahman, how one can experience this fact, "Everything is Brahman."
Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult. Just like this International Society. Originally I started, so in any center, I am there. I am there. My photograph is there, I am there, accepting, Bhaktivedanta Swami. So personally I am not there, but I still am there by my expansion of energy. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the original Brahman. Whatever we see, we perceive, experience, it's all Kṛṣṇa's expansion of energy. That's all.
Śyāmasundara: His attack is with other philosophies that merely state that "This is that, this is that," but have no sense contact, are devoid of any sense meaning.
Devotee: Cannot be perceived. The truth cannot be perceived. If the truth cannot be perceived, then what good is the philosophy?
Prabhupāda: Truth can be perceived.
Devānanda: We can show; therefore our philosophy is good. He would agree, this philosophy is good because we cannot only state with authority what is the truth, we can reasonably establish it and we can demonstrate it also.
Prabhupāda: And perceive also.
Śyāmasundara: But that statement, "It can be seen that my father had a father had a father," that can be seen.
Prabhupāda: No. That is not seen; that is perceived. Perceived. (Sanskrit) It is called (Sanskrit). I can think of like that, yes. That is perception.
Śyāmasundara: So in order for us to say like that, something that cannot be shown cannot be said, he says. That if we say something...
Prabhupāda: Even if it cannot be shown, it is a fact. Not that because it cannot be shown, it is not a fact.
Śyāmasundara: But everything you say, you are also showing, you are also giving examples that we can perceive. Just like the body, you say the soul has left the body so the body does not move. So even though it cannot be seen, the soul is leaving the body.
Prabhupāda: "It cannot be seen" means you have no seeing power. You cannot see beyond this wall, but that does not mean that because it cannot be seen, that is not fact. That is another foolishness. You have no seeing power. You admit your imperfection. Why you are proposing like that, "Because it cannot be seen"?
Śyāmasundara: No. Because it cannot be shown, he says. But it can be shown.
Śyāmasundara: It seems to me, in all of your propositions, you are also showing by practical example how this is true. You do not... It's not in the air, so we cannot perceive it in some way.
Prabhupāda: Nothing is in the air. Everything is fact. But if somebody says, although it is fact, "I cannot see, therefore it is not fact," that is not a good proposal.
Śyāmasundara: You give the evidence: the body is suddenly stopping moving. That is evidence. Even though we cannot see the soul, perhaps, but the evidence is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like on a cloudy day we cannot see the sun, but because there is light, so we say, "Yes, there is sun."
Śyāmasundara: Evidence.
Prabhupāda: Evidence. Similarly, the evidence is the moving capacity. Because the body is moving, there is soul. It doesn't matter if you can see or not see. It doesn't matter. When the motor is moving, there is gas. You may not see the gas. It is foolishness, that "I have not seen the gas. When it is put in?" (break) ...dark, now it is light. How I am saying there is a darkness? It is (indistinct)
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: What is past, present, future for a man is not the past, present, future for Brahmā. Therefore this past, present, future is relative. And Kṛṣṇa is eternal. He has no past, present and future.
Prabhupāda: That we can reply. Why there is no soul? What is the distinction between that, that we already discussed. Don't bother about that.
Devotee: We would say there is no past, or is our perception of the past is false?
Prabhupāda: Time is eternal. There is no past, present, future. We perceive past, present, future due to this body. Just like Kṛṣṇa has no past, present, future.
Śyāmasundara: Wittgenstein noted that his own propositions are nonsensical; that is, they are devoid of any sense content. Therefore he held that...
Prabhupāda: Why he is bothering all nonsensical (indistinct)?
Śyāmasundara: He held that at first we must transcend that, in order to view the world correctly.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we are. (laughter)
Devotee: We are transcending.
Prabhupāda: Let him study philosophy from us.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. His main philosophy is that existence and essence are both there; that existence is not possible without essence. He defines existence to be..., er, essence to be potential and existence to be the actual. So that a thing, and everything that we can perceive, has both existence and, in other words, potentiality and actuality. For instance, this cup has the potentiality to be something else, to be a piece of metal, but in its actual form it is like this. But it has potentiality to become something else. So he says these two things—the essence and the existence-exist simultaneously.
Prabhupāda: So we agree to this point. Just like soul, at the present moment you have got a certain type of body, human body, but the soul has potentiality to have a spiritual body or a dog's body. Both potentialities are there. So the essential is the soul, and the reality... It is not reality; temporary form in the material body. But the potentiality as the soul has its own spiritual body. When it is uncontaminated by the material contamination, he remains only reality without any so-called actuality or temporary form.
Śyāmasundara: He says that God, or the divine intellect, perceives His own essence.
Prabhupāda: No. (break)
Śyāmasundara: He says that God perceives His own essence, and thus He..., everything else and all of the creation came into existence as a part of His essence of God. That everything is a part of God's essence and keeps coming into existence in different forms, different stages of actuality.
Prabhupāda: So that... They say everything is expansion of God's energy. The example is given in the Vedic śāstras, just like the fire is there in one place but the heat and light of the fire expand. Similarly, God, or Kṛṣṇa, is there in Goloka Vṛndāvana, but His energy, external energy and internal energy and marginal energy, they are expanding in this place. So what is his opinion of it?
Śyāmasundara: Well, these two types of energy he would call..., material energy he would call potential energy, and the spiritual energy, he would say is actual energy.
Prabhupāda: Well, actual, the energy is one, but it is working differently. Just like electricity is one, but it is working differently as cooler and heater, although cooling and heating are two opposites. Cooling is just opposite of heating, and heating is just opposite of cooling, but electric energy is working in both the places.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the essence of an entity is its intelligible nature, or that one can have ideas. This is proof that we are more than existence, that we are also essence.
Prabhupāda: No. This existence is temporary. Just like this, I have got this coat. This is also existence, but I may change it next time, but I am the essence. I am permanent. I am changing.
Śyāmasundara: He says this is proven by the fact that the senses, they can perceive the existence of something by feeling it or touching it or seeing it, but they can't say anything about it until the intelligence comes into play, and then intelligence says what it is and gives it being.
Prabhupāda: Intelligence says what is its cause.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. And he describes...
Prabhupāda: So that cause is find some cause and again you find out the cause, again you find the cause, and then you find out cause and effect, you study effect and find out the cause, then when you come to the ultimate cause, which has no other cause, then that is Kṛṣṇa, that is God.
Śyāmasundara: So he says by intuition...
Devotee: I think the idea is that you can tell me who is the father, but I can't understand who the father is when I try to perceive it myself. You have given me a word or a thought, "This is your father," but actually the meaning of "father" has nothing beyond that word or thought unless I understand that I have father. Maybe I might call it by a different name than father.
Devotee (2): No, no.
Devotee: By you saying "This is father" or "This is leaf," it's just a semantic label you have put on that. For me to understand leaf, I must perceive it for myself, because leaf or father may mean something completely different for me and you.
Śyāmasundara: His idea is first of all you have to understand what is leaf or what is father. Then you can understand where the leaf came from, where the father came from. He wants to start from the point of having no knowledge about anything and building up gradually. So they begin with only the bare phenomenon, understanding what is the bare phenomenon. Because there's no authority for them to ask, these Western philosophers. They don't know where is the authority. So the only authority you can rely on is that which is self-evident, those things, those intuitive...
Prabhupāda: So if there is no authority, then why he is anxious to become authority? Why he's philosophizing? Let everyone learn from intuition, self-study. Why he's writing such books?
Śyāmasundara: Because he wants to understand the nature of things.
Devotee: He wants to help other people understand the nature of things.
Prabhupāda: He does not want that his books should be read by anyone.
Prabhupāda: That is clearly explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that the past consciousness, that passion, the consciousness is continuing. So even the body is destroyed, the consciousness continuing. So due to the consciousness he gets another body, and again, in that body, the future, past consciousness works. So, if, if, if in the past life he was a devotee, again he becomes devotee, and from the point where he died, the material body became destroyed, again, as soon as he gets a body, the same consciousness begins to work. Therefore we find somebody quickly accepts Kṛṣṇa consciousness and sometime it takes delay. So it is continued, past. In every verse we see that, just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Bahūnāṁ janmanaṁ ante means the consciousness is being continued but the body is changing. Therefore it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. Janma means to accept another gross body, but the consciousness is continuing. Just as Bhārata Mahārāja, he changed so many bodies but the consciousness continued. He remained in full understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So this is clear, but on account of, I mean to say, dull brain they cannot understand. Here is the reason, that you do not see mind. You have not seen. So Mr. John you see daily, but we don't see Mr. John's intelligence. We can perceive that this man is intelligent, but you have not seen what is intelligent. When he talks, you understand, you perceive, that he has got intelligence. So this gross body, when it is no more talking, so why that intelligence will be finished? This is common sense. When a man talks we say he is intelligent man, but we do not see what is intelligent. So the talking instrument is this body. So this body is finished, gross body is finished, does it mean that his consciousness, intelligence finished? No. That continues. Just like you dream. This body is not working—this is practical—but his consciousness is working, his mind is working. So similarly, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After the destruction of this gross body, the mind, intelligence continues, and because to work the mind and intelligence he requires a body, so he develops body. That is transmigration of the soul. It is very clear to understand.
Prabhupāda: This is like the sense and sense objects. Just like we have got the senses smelling. This is concrete. But the smell is not concrete.
Śyāmasundara: Subtle.
Prabhupāda: Subtle in this sense, that I cannot... Because we are so materialistic that our senses cannot perceive anything which is not concrete. But the highest philosophy, Vedic philosophy, the sense of smelling and the sense object, smell, simultaneously created. Unless there is smell, the nose has no value. Therefore the sense and the sense object, they are simultaneously created. Tan-mātrā. In Sanskrit word it is called tan-mātrā. Just like eyes and beauty, simultaneously. If there is no beauty, then there is no value of eyes. If there is no music, the ear has no value. If there is no soft thing, the touch has no value. Similarly, everything is created—the sense and the sense object and the controller of the senses—and that is... (guests come in) Aiye, please come in.
Śyāmasundara: But I want to see everyone as a person, not as an object. So how do I do that?
Prabhupāda: Because he is person, therefore he is discriminating.
Śyāmasundara: But how do I perceive someone as a person? How do I do it?
Prabhupāda: Because he has got discriminating power.
Śyāmasundara: What is the method for doing it? What is the method of seeing someone as a person?
Prabhupāda: There is no method. It is directly perceived. As soon as I see you, you have got individuality.
Śyāmasundara: But I don't see your individuality. I see you as an object.
Prabhupāda: Why do you see like that?
Śyāmasundara: I want to know how I can see you as a person. What is the cure? What is the remedy? What is the solution?
Prabhupāda: I don't follow what you are saying. Everyone is seeing. I am seeing you as a person, you are seeing me as a person.
Śyāmasundara: If you'll remember, some of the philosophers we have discussed, they believe that unless the world is perceived, it does not exist. But Bertrand Russell thought that the world was real in itself. Even though we do not perceive it, it still exists.
Prabhupāda: That, that (indistinct). World exists, whether we perceive or not perceive. It doesn't matter. So many things we do not perceive. Just like the child, he sees the electric fan is moving, but he does not perceive where is electricity power, or the powerhouse. So because the child does not perceive the powerhouse and electricity, it does not mean that there is no electricity or no powerhouse. It is the childish fault that one must think like that, that without electricity, without powerhouse, the fan is moving. That is childish. The so-called perception or no perception is simply childish.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the existence of the real world beyond sense data cannot be proved.
Prabhupāda: Such a nonsense cannot perceive. Therefore we have to go to a person who knows. I may be fool, rascal, so I cannot perceive, but that does not mean things are there as the fools and rascals perceive. Our process is, therefore, Vedic process-tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to be really learned, wise, one must go to a guru. Gurum eva abhigacchet. Must. This abhigacchet word means "must." There is no alternative. He cannot know things as they are without approaching guru. That is our Vedic system. And guru means one who knows the Vedas, and one who is firmly fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is guru.
Śyāmasundara: This Bertrand Russell says that the world consists of a number of simple facts, each independent of all the others yet related externally to each other.
Prabhupāda: What are those facts?
Śyāmasundara: Well, everything that we see and perceive is individually separate, atomic, he calls it. So that the world consists of millions, of billions, numberless simple facts. They're externally related, but they're still independent of each other.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They're not independent; they are dependent. Who makes that separate? How do I separate them? There is no answer for that. They see simply that things are separate, but how they are separated, wherefrom they have come? That means superficial observation. But our Vedic process is to find out the original source. That is factual knowledge. We can, just like (indistinct) because you are scientist, that if we are talking not according to the scientific facts, it is counter to the facts, then, you are modern scientist, so if you find that there is something we are talking which does not corroborate with the scientific statement, you can point out.
Śyāmasundara: So today we are discussing a philosopher named Samuel Alexander. He is the philosopher of emergent evolution. The last of the evolutionists we'll be discussing. His philosophy begins with the idea that objects, external objects, have an independent existence. They do not depend on consciousness for their existence. This is the opposite of many philosophers we have discussed who have said that nothing exists unless it is perceived. But this philosopher says something may exist even though it is not perceived. Even though there is no conscious life to observe, it still exists. Objects exist independently of perception.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like God exists, either you perceive or not perceive. Is that all right? God, creator. Just like everyone has got father, so all living entities coming originally from a father. So you perceive or not perceive, it doesn't matter. But a father was there or is there. Is that all right?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Suppose if nobody perceives an object. Say, like...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Even nobody perceives, the fact is fact. Nobody has seen my father, but everyone knows that I had a father. It is not necessary that who accepts that I had a father, or I have a father, it is not necessary that he has to see my father by direct perception. But because I exist, therefore my father is essential. That is understood by everyone. Just like somebody asks, some friend asks some friend, "What is your father's name?" That means he assumes that he has got a father. Otherwise how does he say, ask, "What is your father's name?" First of all, you should have asked, "Have you got a father?" Then ask his name. But without asking this inquiry, whether he has got a father or not, he simply asks, "What is the name of your father?" Then it is assumed that he has a father. So he does not see his father, but immediately perceives that he has a father.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the mind has two functions also, but he describes them slightly different. He says that first one is contemplation, that is perceiving the qualities of an object. And this is a, it's called a neurological activity. In other words, when the nerve endings in the body react with the qualities of an object. If an object is red, my nerve ending perceives that it is red. This is the object.
Prabhupāda: Just like if there is a tamarind, immediately there is saliva in my tongue.
Śyāmasundara: (laughs) This is what he calls contemplation.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: And then the second function of the mind is enjoyment, where there is a mental awareness of an inner, physiological activity as a result of the contemplation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many examples. Just like one man dreams some woman and there is nocturnal discharges. Mind creates like that and there is physical action actually. Mind creates a dream, a tiger, and there is physical action. He is crying loudly, "Here is a tiger. Here is a tiger." Actually, there is no tiger.
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that evolution is passed through five stages. In the beginning there was merely space and time and the categories, this object. Then there was a development of primary qualities through multiple sense perception. In other words, living entities began to perceive objects through different sense perceptions. Then there was the secondary qualities were developed through perception by one organ. In other words, out of a multiple sense quality, an eye developed, a nose developed, a mouth developed.
Prabhupāda: That is the process of body. I have explained several times that after the secretion of the male and the female, they together emulsify and forms a pealike body. And that develops into this body. Gradually, there are holes. The holes become eyes, ears, nose, rectum, like that. So when the body, creation of body is complete, then the child comes out.
Śyāmasundara: He says that after the secondary sense perceptions are developed, then life develops and then mind develops.
Prabhupāda: Mind is also created. That we admit.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that in this way there are...
Prabhupāda: Mind, ego, intelligence, everything is created of elements.
Prabhupāda: That is our philosophy, nonego means although I have got my identification, I am, still I have sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa says "You do this," I don't say, "I will not do." I don't impose my will. I sacrifice my individuality. Kṛṣṇa says, I must do. Therefore my ego is not there.
Śyāmasundara: He uses the same example of Barthe(?) that essais persice(?) means that this exists because I perceive it, that all these non-ego objects are...
Prabhupāda: No, that we don't agree. It exists independent from our perception.
Śyāmasundara: But it must be perceived by someone to exist.
Prabhupāda: That is different (indictinct) the one who has manufactured it (indistinct). So similarly, God is in (indistinct) of everything, I may not. That is described in the Bhāgavata, anvayād itarataś ca, anvayād (indistinct) sa abhijñaḥ. He is not (indistinct). Nothing can be concealed from the vision of God.
Śyāmasundara: So to be is to be perceived but because God perceives it, it exists.
Prabhupāda: Without God nothing can exist.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that we come into this world and these objects are here...
Prabhupāda: Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). (indistinct). He is the originator of everything, anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu, indirectly, directly, whatever there are, He knows everything. I do not know who has manufactured this, I see only but I do not know (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that by observing the material energy that we can get an idea of what is the real duty of the universe. You can perceive it in the ongoing fluctuations of material nature, the duty or reality of the universe.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. If he is ignorant, how he can understand? There must be direction, guidance.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the pure speculative reasoning...
Prabhupāda: No, that is (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: But this pure speculative reason must be unified with practical reason also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But practical means he will require guidance. (laughter)
Śyāmasundara: He says the institutions such as laws can participate in this unfolding of the reason of the universe, duty of the universe for instance by controlling conflicts between personalities and so on. Law, the laws of the state, the laws of (indistinct) can participate in the unfolding of the universe, the purpose of the universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We accept that personality may be (indistinct), not that we pick up any man from the street and we accept guru. That will not (indistinct). Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12), one who has heard properly from his spiritual master and as a result of such hearing he is perfectly in God consciousness (indistinct).
Hayagrīva: All right, this is... Later in The Republic, in the allegory of the cave, we mentioned before, Socrates says, "In the world of knowledge, the last thing to be perceived, and only with great difficulty, is the essential form of goodness. Once it is perceived, the conclusion must follow that for all things, this is the cause of whatever is right and good. In the visible world it gives birth to light and to the Lord of light while it is itself sovereign in the intelligible world and the parent of the intelligible world and the parent of intelligence and truth. Without having had a vision of this Form," he uses capital "F," Form, "no one can act with wisdom either in his own life or in matters of state." And here, he, Socrates mentions form but he doesn't mention personality. He mentions the form of goodness, but through intellection, or jñāna, how is it possible to perceive the form of God or the form of goodness? What could he possibly mean by...
Prabhupāda: That is from Vedic same. As soon as there is instruction there is form. As Kṛṣṇa is giving instruction, He is always saying "I," "you," like that, it is personal. He says Arjuna, "You," and He says Himself, "I." So Arjuna is also form and Kṛṣṇa is also form, and Kṛṣṇa also says that "Both you, Me, and all these living entities, kings and soldiers who are assembled here, they existed in the past, they are existing now, and they will continue to exist." So you can understand that "In the present I am in form, so I existed in the past in form and I shall continue to exist in the future as form. So where is formless?" From my present position I can understand my past and future.
Hayagrīva: Here's another point. Aristotle says that it is not material objects that are trying to realize God, like as Plato says, but God realizing Himself through material objects. God does this in a variegated way and in an infinite way. So God realizes the potentiality of a rose or of a man by creating a rose, a flower, a man that is perceivable by the material senses. So the world is more real to Aristotle than it is to Plato.
Prabhupāda: If God has created the material world and material variety, so means He is in full awareness how to do things nicely. That is perfectness of God. He knows everything how to do it perfectly, naturally. Just like even a child, we get daily experience, when we offer some cake in the Deity room, the child immediately takes it and puts in the mouth. Although she is very small baby, (s)he doesn't require any education about taking the cake and what to do with it. Immediately puts in the mouth. So this natural, what is called, knowledge, that is God's knowledge. He knows everything perfectly well, and when He produces a rose flower, it is all-perfect. That is God's... God is not..., He has to get the knowledge through some source. He is already in awareness of everything. That is God. So He hasn't got to know His capacity through matter.
Hayagrīva: Hm.
Prabhupāda: Sītā uṣṇa. That is perceived. An old man perceives very much cold, and a young child, he does not perceive—according to the body. An animal, naked body, he can walk on the street in severe cold, but a man cannot. So this body is the source of suffering and enjoying. So why not take it as punishment and reward?
Hayagrīva: Well, Augustine believes that each individual man, or each individual soul within man, is not necessarily condemned to earth due to his own personal desire or sin but due to the original sin of Adam, the first man. He writes, "When the first couple," that's Adam and Eve, "were punished by the judgment of God, the whole human race, which was to become Adam's posterity through the first woman, was present in the first man." So that was the origin of sin and death. So man's sin is not personal. The reason I'm in..., conditioned in this human body is not because I personally committed a mistake...
Prabhupāda: Your becoming conditioned is punishment. Why you should be conditioned?
Hayagrīva: For my..., as punishment for my own desire.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: Berkeley. Berkeley—very brief section on Berkeley. Berkeley seems to be arguing against objective reality. In other words, three men standing in a field looking at a tree could all have a different impression or idea of the tree, or at least according to his argument. The problem is, although there are three impressions of the tree, each differing from one another, there is no tree as such. Now, how does the tree as such exist? In the mind of God? Is it possible for a conditioned living entity to perceive the suchness or essence of anything?
Prabhupāda: Everything means God, expansion of God's energy. So how tree or anything can be without reference to God? We see that the earthen pot is on the ground, on the, what is called, ground?
Hayagrīva: The what?
Prabhupāda: Earthen pot, pot, pots made of earth.
Hayagrīva: Earthen pots, pot that's made of earth.
Prabhupāda: So it is staying on earth, so the earthen pot is not different from the earth. So everything is expansion of God's energy. How we can avoid God with reference to anything that we see? There cannot be anything independent of God. The example is there: the earthen pot, as soon as you see, we remember the potter, that "Who has made?" and the wheel of the potter. So a... God is the original creator, He is the ingredient, and He is the category also, and He is the original substance. That is the conception, Vedic conception of God. He is everything. That is nondual conception. And if you make anything separate from God, then how you can say sarvaṁ khalu idaṁ brahma, "Everything is Brahman"? Then if you say everything is God, at the same time you separate something from God, so that is, what is called, contradiction. Our conception is, "Yes, actually everything has reference to the God, so everything is God's property. It should be utilized for God's service." That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Hayagrīva: Pantheism. So when Kṛṣṇa says, "I am sex life according to dharma," then this means that He can be perceived in this way.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you, just like garbhādhāna ceremony. That is not a secret thing. That garbhādhāna ceremony is that "I am going to beget a child. I am going to have sex with my wife for begetting a Kṛṣṇa conscious child," so that Kṛṣṇa is remembered. While having sex, if he remembers, "Kṛṣṇa, give me a child who will be Your devotee," that is the duty of the father. So this kind of sex is Kṛṣṇa. And if we have sex for enjoyment, that is not. That is demonic. That is the, Kṛṣṇa says...
Hayagrīva: But Kṛṣṇa is present nonetheless.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is always present, but if when you hold a ceremony, garbhādhāna ceremony, that "I am going to have sex with my wife for begetting a Kṛṣṇa conscious child," then you remember Kṛṣṇa. And at the time of sex, the mentality of the father and mother, that is acquired by the child. There is rules and regulation for garbhādhāna ceremony, and in the Bhāgavata you will find that as soon as a..., the..., one gives up the garbhādhāna ceremony, he is a śūdra. So who is observing this garbhādhāna ceremony at the present moment? Therefore everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavāḥ. Everyone is born as śūdra. The father and mother gave birth as śūdra. So this birthright of brāhmaṇa is no longer in this day. Even they falsely claim, "Because I am born of a brāhmaṇa father I am brāhmaṇa," that śāstra will not support.
| Page Title: | Perceive (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 11 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=179, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 179 |