People were... (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"people were"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: No, no, other books, they are not...

Mahamsa: Other books were there. They were on the book table. There was a book table.

Indian man (4): Where it is?

Mahamsa: Many people were purchasing books. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Prominent place. (Hindi) Keep in prominent place so that others can see. And any book which is not in stock, you can note down his order so that you can send him later on.

Indian man (5): He will come every day.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (5): Mostly he approaching every member.

Prabhupāda: No, recently we have published very important book, Nectar of Instruction. For common man it is very nice. (break) Yesterday's lecture you liked?

Indian men: Yes. (Hindi) (break)

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a nice temple in Nabadwip that does that, the Govinda temple in Nabadwip. When I was going to purchase the land in Māyāpur, the Mr. Das, the lawyer, and I, we would take our meals at this temple. Every day he would purchase. He would give a little.

Prabhupāda: Yes, still there are.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They had arrangement like this. At least a hundred people were taking, respectable people.

Prabhupāda: Acchā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a very big temple, that temple. Of course, I don't know how bona fide the persons who speak at night are, but every night there are speakers, and many people coming. It's a very good temple. I was very impressed by it. Nice rooms for people to stay upstairs, very active, always being cleansed by people.

Prabhupāda: That is temple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And first-class prasādam.

Prabhupāda: So we have got so many examples. Introduce this. (end)

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That was described in some English book, the man?

Hari-śauri: Gulliver's Travels.

Bhavānanda: Gulliver's Travels.

Prabhupāda: Ha, ha, yes. These rascals, they do not know there is Gulliver. They are thinking very big.

Bhavānanda: Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when there is some natural calamity... Like I read in the newspaper, four thousand people were killed immediately in Guatemala.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: That is also the demigods?

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, greater than you, you admit it, demigods or God or anything. But why you are thinking yourself so big? That is your fault. That is foolishness. I am a big man amongst a small, tiny living entities. But why you are thinking you are biggest of all, you can understand everything? That is your fault. This is the folly of the conditioned soul. He is nothing. He has no value. Still, he is thinking he is very great. Everything is big and small relatively. Just like here if one man has got 100,000 rupees, he's a big man. But what is 100,000 rupees in America? Nothing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One year's salary for an average man.

Morning Walk -- February 10, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura was so strict (laughs) that because he married twice, he used to say, "strī-saṅgī, attached to woman," even his father. (laughter) He was very strict. Sometimes when he would be angry, he'd, "You strī-saṅgī." And don't discuss this thing. (laughs) He was very strict. No excuse, no compromise.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's where you got all of that from.

Prabhupāda: My is imitation, but his was real. (laughs) All these Navadvīpa people were afraid of him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Afraid.

Prabhupāda: Strong-hearted. They made a, what is called, conspiracy to kill him.

Hṛdayānanda: Who did this?

Prabhupāda: Oh, the Navadvīpa gosvāmīs. They raised 25,000 rupees and wanted to bribe this police officer that "You take this money. We shall finish him. Don't take any action."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the policeman said?

Prabhupāda: Refused. "Yes, we take bribe, but not in such cases."

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We can go there... And now, wherever we shall go, they will be received like that.

Jayapatākā: They especially mentioned...

Prabhupāda: The Indian people are meant for that purpose. They are from the birth, janma... Other, they are janmanā śūdra, but Indians, they are janmanā devotees.

Jayapatākā: I meant to mention that he commented that when they were coming from Andhra, when they, as they're getting closer to Bengal, in Orissa, and then even more so in Bengal, the, both in Ori... so many kīrtana was there. The people were meeting them with kīrtana and everyone was doing kīrtana. But in Andhra and other places, not so much kīrtana is there.

Prabhupāda: No.

Jayapatākā: They say they get much better reception in Orissa and Bengal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because...

Jayapatākā: And already they picked up one devotee, I think. Devotees come also quicker.

Hṛdayānanda: Lord Caitanya...

Jayapatākā: I think if we concentrated first in Bengal and Orissa, we get some, enough devotees, and then they could help us in the other villages elsewhere.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 2, 1976, Mayapur:

Guru-kṛpā: The brahmacārīs are supporting the householders.

Prabhupāda: How?

Guru-kṛpā: Well, they are doing the saṅkīrtana and collecting the funds, and the householders are spending.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...nature. Uparvata pani. (?) (break)

Jayapatāka: About five brahmacārīs went down there, and they were lifting the karāi on the head, and they were encouraging the men, and the people became... And Guru-kṛpā was coming and Gargamuni... The people were so happy that the devotees were there. They were working much harder.

Prabhupāda: When a man takes his work in his own hand, it is sure to be done. So all of you encourage them.

Jayapatāka : Maheśvara commented that although all day we're yelling at the men, when the work is over, they are laughing and saying, "Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is association, a mass movement. (break) ...our boy, especially boy, in solitary place, then spoiled. Then the māyā is there immediately. That is very dangerous. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So parikrāma party has not come back?

Madhudviṣa: No, they didn't show up yet.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is not good. The class must be attended.

Madhudviṣa: They'll be back by the time class starts, I think, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Then they should not go in the morning. They must attend class. That is very important.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You once gave the example of your spiritual master also, how people were invited on parikrama and you stayed back to hear.

Prabhupāda: I never went. (break) Otherwise they should not go in the morning. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Czar was the leader in Russia.

Jayatīrtha: And Chiang Kai-shek in China.

Prabhupāda: So why they changed their leader?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a revolution.

Madhudviṣa: People were unsatisfied.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: People were not satisfied with the government. There was a revolution.

Prabhupāda: No, people were not satisfied... The principle, what is the principle? To have better leader. Is it not? So if they get still better leader, why they will not change?

Madhudviṣa: They would say it's not the leader but it's the system.

Prabhupāda: Whatever... The system is done by some leaders. Anything... Just like our, this system we have introduced. I am the leader. Similarly, a leader is changed for betterment of the situation. So if the communists and those who have brain, if they find a better leader for better situation, why they'll not? And they want for revolution also. They are in favor of revolution. Their theory is that periodically there must be revolution. That is their theory. I talked with Professor Kotovsky. So why they will not accept another revolution for further advancement?

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Three thousand years...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All cavemen.

Prabhupāda: ...before, there was no civilization.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I just.... I read that recently in an anthropology book, that 3000 B.C. means five thousand years ago, everyone was living in.... Especially in this part of the world, people were simply living in caves.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: English propaganda.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: English propaganda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They had very crude tools for making their things. Practically they were all like animals.

Prabhupāda: So how this literature came?

Hari-śauri: Well, they say that it's not older than 1,000, 1,500 years old.

Prabhupāda: One thousand.... But where are other literatures like that, 1,500 years, in Europe and other places?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No such thing.

Prabhupāda: So only the literatures were here in India?

Pañca-draviḍa: No, they have them. They also have mythology in Greece, and Roman mythology too.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Activities? These activities are going on. The sun is rising by the will of God; the moon is rising, will of God. You are being punished by the will of God. He is the Supreme.

Cyavana: But they described that people were worshiping and that children were being born...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Cyavana: Children were being born according to God's will.

Prabhupāda: Yes...

Cyavana: It's described in certain parts of...

Prabhupāda: Children will be born.... If you are.... If the child is sinful, then it will go to the womb of a mother who will kill him. That's all. By the will. By the.... That he should be punished. One who has used contraceptive and abortion method, by the will of God he will enter another mother, and the mother will kill him.

Cyavana: But the Bible, it indicates...

Prabhupāda: Now, now, you see, try, understand. You are very good Bible quoter, but try to understand each and everything. Simply you go on quoting, but understand what is that quotation. It is by the will of God. You have committed sinful life by contraceptive method. Now you enter in the womb of another mother and be killed. That is Bible.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing: "There is no classification, neither real brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya. So he is enjoying like that. He has got so many cars. He has got such a nice apartment. Why not me?" There is struggle. This is actual picture. Our Vedic advice is that make life very simple. You must have some means of livelihood. Keep your body and soul together. So according to quality, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), there must be division and then simple life. The real aim is tam abhyarcya, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everyone is.... Brāhmaṇa is guiding, kṣatriya is ruling, and vaiśya is producing food, and śūdra, they have no brain; they are helping. In this way the society is very peaceful, and everyone is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is India's civilization. Now, due to this association of the rākṣasas... Even up to Mohammedan time this civilization was being continued. Mohammedan did not touch the Indian culture. Sometimes by, what is called, fanaticism, there was fight. Not like this. The Arjuna.... Aurangzeb began this. Otherwise, from, what is called, the first emperor? Akbar. Akbar, Jahanghri, then Shajahan, there was no trouble. They did not touch. Even there was some marriage connection. They want to remain as kṣatriya king, that's all. The other things were not interfered. So instead of a Hindu kṣatriya, the Musselman kṣatriya. People were satisfied: "A kṣatriya... We have to work. Somebody must be king." So in this way the Indian people accepted the Britishers. "All right, you remain king. Don't interfere." But later on, to exploit the whole country, they began to plan.

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is bhakti. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66)? "You haven't got to please so many religious instructions. You simply please Me." That is Kṛṣṇa's...

Siddha-svarūpa: I don't think the devotees who factioned out were against book distribution. I think that a little bit was that some of the devotees were using very, very forceful tactics and trying to give people books and take their money, and people were becoming very offended...

Prabhupāda: That is not (indistinct).

Siddha-svarūpa: That is not what you want.

Hari-śauri: That's all right, but don't give up the book distribution.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Hari-śauri: This is what happened. The temples fell down, the devotees went away. The ones who were distributing the books went on and distributed more books, became more expert, so that the public were not so much disturbed, and still they're distributing books. But these people who factioned off are not distributing books even now, two or three years later. So it was simply actually a question of faultfinding more than earnest desire to please the spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) Discuss.

Devotee: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Formerly their society was very much like the Vedic culture. There was the emperor and the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it was.... The Chinese people were coming, taking knowledge from.... Everyone was coming. So now argument that "If you are.... You are following the nature's way. Nature supply water. That is a fact. Here is cloud. Nature will supply. Now, if you want to surpass nature, then you produce in the factory, without water, food grains. Then we shall understand that you can surpass. As you are producing instruments and so many other motorcars and this, that, so many, in the factory, that's all right. In the factory you produce food grains without water. Then you have surpassed nature."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can't do that.

Prabhupāda: Then where is the question of surpassing nature? Make them fool in every point, these rascals, by argument.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Unfortunately, they do not teach any philosophy anymore. They have done away with all...

Prabhupāda: This is not philosophy.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes. This is science.

Prabhupāda: This philosophy, it is science. Without water you cannot produce. This is science. This is not imagination. So if you want to surpass nature, then you do practically. Why should you try to bring canal water or well water? Don't bring. You cannot surpass the laws of nature. That has to be accepted.

Room Conversation -- May 7, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: I did not study so much. Yes, there is no gorgeousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In China they all wear the same clothes. Whatever you saw in Russia, China is ten times more oppressive. It is much more oppressive. They say that Russia is a complete failure, because they are allowing so much looseness. The Chinese are accusing the Russians of being very loose and very capitalistic inclined. China is very dissatisfied that Russians have given up the principles of Marx and they have taken after the western ways. Preferring one group above another group.

Prabhupāda: Because Russia was afraid of another revolution. People were preparing. So much pressure, intolerance, after all they are Europeans, so there was a chance of revolution.

Hari-śauri: Especially after Stalin. So many people were killed and sent to prison camps. That was the way that they enforced...

Prabhupāda: Stalin is calculated to be greatest criminal in the world. He has killed so many men. All rogues. We were taken through the neighborhood of all aristocratic men who were killed in the revolution.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: While reading about China, one of the books I was reading also described Cambodia, Vietnam and Korea. And the recent histories of these countries are so horrible, that the... Mostly in that part of the world now they have become totally anti-American. They are very, very anti-American because of what the Ameri... The Americans have simply gone there and...

Guru-kṛpā: Not Korea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Huh?

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: North Koreans don't love Americans.

Guru-kṛpā: No, not north Koreans, South Koreans.

Room Conversation -- May 7, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes are also promised (indistinct) you have to continue. There is no temple. Must be constructed.

Guru-kṛpā: Do you think... Some of the devotees were expressing that maybe in the front would be better, then they could come in off the street. Otherwise they have to go around the...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Guru-kṛpā: If the building was built in the front, some people were thinking this might be a better spot because if there's no sun back here...

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Guru-kṛpā: ...then it becomes very muddy there.

Prabhupāda: What is the area here?

Guru-kṛpā: Oh, it's bigger.

Prabhupāda: Bigger?

Guru-kṛpā: Yes. And they say these neighbors back here are the ones that do all the complaining. So some were expressing that this might be better, they could come in off the street. Also, many tourists come to Hawaii, and if we make it very nice, then they can, many tourist buses may come here to see the temple. So if it is near the gate then you'll come right out. But it's just that I have no knowledge how to build anything.

Prabhupāda: So?

Guru-kṛpā: Myself, how to go about it. I don't have any experience or knowledge of that.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They set fire. They set fire. "Let them become without home, then they will work for my shop."

Devotee (2): There were so many mangoes here that were dropping to the ground, and they've gotten rid of some of the mango trees because they said that the people were stopping on the side of the road picking up the mangoes, it was causing a traffic hazard.

Prabhupāda: Causing what is that?

Devotee (2): They were causing traffic disturbance. So therefore they took away the mango trees. There were much more mango trees in Hawaii than there are now. Anyone could go and take mangoes off the ground.

Prabhupāda: They don't want natural things.

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Chanting produce plain living, high thinking. The modern leaders, they don't want.

Hari-śauri: We're a threat to the society.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Egypt, they have been able to dig underneath the ground and find the remains of ancient cities. So this is proof of the ancient civilization of Egypt. But they have not found ancient ruins of the cities of Dvārakā or Hastināpura. They do not have such...

Rādhāvallabha: There are ruins in Dvārakā.

Rāmeśvara: So they do not accept that the ancient civilization of India is old, very old.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I read one anthropology book, and it said that about 3,500 years ago in India people were only living in all the caves, and they were simply using stones and things like that, very primitive tools. No knowledge at all.

Mahendra: But they cannot explain how it was that these people evolved, these cavemen evolved such a language as Sanskrit, which not even the greatest scholar today can even begin to comprehend. It is a very great language.

Prabhupāda: That is their grudge. When they see such exalted literature, they are envious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why don't we cut over?

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, we can walk over this way? There's no water.

Prabhupāda: It was all manufactured by the Britishers. To keep their faith with other nations, they were protesting that "Why you are keeping India dependent?" So they were pleading that "We are making India civilized." That was their propaganda.

Rāmeśvara: "The white man's burden," they called it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (pause) Prabhupāda, wherever you walk, the water turns off.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: Well, one break, for lunch. It was just indescribable. There's so much heat and fumes, and always covered in oil and grease, crawling around on your hands and knees to fix some machine.

Jagadīśa: All for the advantage of some wealthy man.

Prabhupāda: And after this hard labor, his only recreation is wine. Did you drink?

Hari-śauri: (laughs) Yes, we used to go straight from the steel works to the pub, public house.

Jagadīśa: I also worked in a factory for a while. Same thing. And people were always getting hurt.

Prabhupāda: You are not meant for that. (laughs)

Hari-śauri: No.

Prabhupāda: I thought you joined from college?

Jagadīśa: Yes, but during the summer I had a job in a factory.

Prabhupāda: Oh, to get some money.

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This girl Elizabeth paid so much money; it is due to Govardhana.

Jagadīśa: Due to?

Prabhupāda: Govardhana.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: There is no date? Hmm?

Devotee (1): Maybe not in that one article. Other articles, there are dates.

Prabhupāda: Is this Cleveland?

Devotee (1): Yes. There are many skyscrapers, tall buildings, there are many tall buildings, and people were looking out at the Ratha-yātrā cart and at Lord Jagannātha.

Prabhupāda: Here, the daytime is...

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: We have found, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the buses are going to many of these cities, they have never seen our devotees, because when we go, we are dressed like they are for distributing the books. So now the boys are going again in the streets with a kīrtana party once a week downtown, and they have all done front-page newspaper articles, because although they have been reading the books, they have never seen the devotees in many years. I think festivals like this...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: ...in all these cities would be very advantageous, and all the book distribution...

Prabhupāda: And therefore I said that introduce Ratha-yātrā every city. At least wherever we have got our centers. Bring Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa. They have received some testimonial from Indian...

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes, Indian reviews?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. He was destined to be killed by his countryman, he was not? Such a big man, such vigilance and so many people were guarding him and still he was killed in the meeting. Why Mahatma Gandhi? Your president, ex, Kennedy. Was less protection was taken? No, every was there, everything was there but still he was killed. Who can stop this destiny? So destiny cannot be checked. The fatalists, they know, "My material happiness or distress, it cannot be checked. It will happen so why shall I waste my energy for this purpose. Let me utilize my energy for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Therefore it is said tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labyhate yad bhramatām (SB 1.5.18), that is intelligence.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if destiny cannot be changed, what does Kṛṣṇa mean when He says, "Be thou happy by this sacrifice."

Prabhupāda: Do you know what is meant by sacrifice?

Devotee: Sacrifice to Viṣṇu, to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means to please Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is pleased He can change destiny. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti bhājāṁ (Bs. 5.54). Sacrifice means to please Kṛṣṇa, yajña. Yajña means to please Kṛṣṇa. The whole, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to please Kṛṣṇa. That is the whole program. In all other business there is no question of pleasing Kṛṣṇa. When they declare war, one nation to another, there is no question of pleasing Kṛṣṇa. They're pleasing their whims. The two, big, big wars began, it was not for pleasing Kṛṣṇa. The Germans wanted that their sense gratification is being hampered by the Britishers, "Declare war." That means it was a war of sense gratification. "The Britishers are satisfying their sense gratification; we cannot do. All right, fight." So, there was no question of pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Hm. Then?

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Misusing the energy. Yesterday, some two and half million the government has spent, and we also, combined together, we have spent ten million by power, gas, going there and coming. So many cars. Another ten million. So all these twelve million, three, thirteen million dollars spent for nothing. Dancing like dogs, independence, māyā. (break) (out of car) Ask him this question.

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda was saying in the car that yesterday the American people were declaring their independence. So he's asking what is the value to it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the value of it? They are enjoying their senses.

Prabhupāda: Now dog dancing. What is that song? Dog dancing? I sang that song?

Hari-śauri: (sings) "We are independent, we are independent."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (laughs) That is the spirit of patriotism.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you can say any name, any style or any trademark. Where is the independence? That is the question.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But Śrīla Prabhupāda blessed yesterday around the Capitol. There were so many people, and they seemed like they liked...

Arrival Comments in Car to Temple -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: In the evening we had traveling kīrtana all around the city.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think this is enough, Prabhupāda? I'll tie it together now.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Hari-śauri: Kīrtana, the reaction was amazing, people were dancing and chanting and waving, Prabhupāda was in ecstasy.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: New York climate is very nice. Sometimes now it rains a little bit, then shining. So just like Bengal.

Rāmeśvara: I observed that these devotees at New York, they've practically given up sleeping this past week to prepare everything for your arrival.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are so kind to me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they worked very hard.

Rāmeśvara: It reminded me that time when the Press devotees stayed up all the time to get those Caitanya-caritāmṛta volumes. The same spirit. They just stopped eating and sleeping.

Prabhupāda: That is love. These things can be done only out of love.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Translation.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Then in the beginning of Kali-yuga, the Lord will appear as Lord Buddha, the son of Añjanā, in the province of Gayā, just for the purpose of deluding those who are envious of the faithful theists."

Prabhupāda: To delude them. Read the purport.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Lord Buddha, a powerful incarnation of the Personality of Godhead, appeared in the province of Gayā (Bihar) as the son of Añjanā, and he preached his own conception of nonviolence and deprecated even the animal sacrifices sanctioned in the Vedas. At the time when Lord Buddha appeared, the people in general were atheistic and preferred animal flesh to anything else. On the plea of Vedic sacrifice, every place was practically turned into a slaughterhouse, and animal killing was indulged in unrestrictedly. Lord Buddha preached nonviolence, taking pity on the poor animals. He preached that he did not believe in the tenets of the Vedas and stressed the adverse psychological effects incurred by animal killing. Less intelligent men of the age of Kali, who had no faith in God, followed his principle, and for the time being they were trained in moral discipline and nonviolence, the preliminary steps for proceeding further on the path of God realization. He deluded the atheists because such atheists who followed his principles did not believe in God, but they kept their absolute faith in Lord Buddha, who himself was the incarnation of God. Thus the faithless people were made to believe in God in the form of Lord Buddha. That was the mercy of Lord Buddha: he made the faithless faithful to him. Killing of animals before the advent of Lord Buddha was the most prominent feature of the society.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very funny that Ninth Avenue turns into Amsterdam Avenue at this point. Ninth Avenue becomes Amsterdam Avenue on about Sixtieth Street.

Rāmeśvara: Yesterday there was a big parade in New York City, all people who are against abortion, they were marching. The U.S. is having a presidential election, so the Democratic party, they are having their convention in New York City to decide who will be their candidate for President. So all these people were marching to try to convince him to be against abortion. But he has already said he will not take any issue, he will not take a stand, because it is too controversial.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Rāmeśvara: The Presidential candidate. He will not give his opinion.

Devotee: Who is that, Reagan?

Rāmeśvara: No, Carter. They are unwilling to give their opinion because then someone may not vote for them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that's too controversial. Most people are for abortion.

Prabhupāda: Why they are for abortion?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because it gives them unlimited room for sense gratification. The whole business is...

Prabhupāda: So why not become brahmacārī?

Devotee (1): They want to dance without paying the piper. (laughter)

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Our men's productive. There must be food production, otherwise how the society will live. That is also a requirement. Good direction required, good government required, good production required, and good worker required. You can explain that there is no understanding of spiritual life. That they are missing the opportunity of human life.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a spiritual culture, and basically speaking the human society begins from dharma, or accepting the principle of God. Dharma begins with this acceptance of the principle of God, that human beings, their activities, have to be regulated. Just like in human society there is marriage. This is according to scripture. Every scripture regulates there must be marriage. This is dharma. It regulates certain activities that should be done, certain activities that should not be done. And basically speaking this is the beginning of human civilization; otherwise, they're simply living in a civilization of gross sense gratification which is in reality no different or no better than the society of animals. So from dharma, human society begins and generally... You can see practically that dharma generally focuses... People are taking that dharma is for the basis of economic development. This is proven practically because in pioneer times in America for example, people they were simple going to churches and synagogues, and temples and all kinds of things, what have you. And economic development was going on very nicely, in fact, economic development could not have gone on unless there was this principle of religion. People were very, practically speaking... In a pioneer situation people are very barbaric, struggle for existence—you know, you're in the country, there is no road, there's no cities—everyone is very, simply interested to maintain themselves. But by churches and things of this nature, people saw the need for a civilized give-and-take way of living—economic development. Then gradually, the ideas developed further and further, but in modern days we can see that people are having economic developments and there's no need for God, they think at least. In other words, people are no longer attending churches, synagogues, things of this nature, because they are making sufficient money without the need of religion.

Morning Walk -- July 19, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Not only our men, outsiders also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many outsiders were doing that.

Hari-śauri: They like to pull the ropes. It's a big experience for them.

Prabhupāda: (belches loudly) What is this gas, oxygen? No. They put some gas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Carbon dioxide. CO2. You should have seen it. It was literally completely filled. We put on a play. First we did a big kīrtana, after you left, very big, and many, at least a thousand to two thousand people were dancing. Then there was a play, and the people crowded to see that play of Kali, Sudāmā. Oh, they were amazed to see. Sudāmā was moving around, dancing, watching. They like that very much.

Prabhupāda: Sudāmā plays nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's expert. Especially at that part, Kali and Sin. (laughter) And then after that I looked out at the crowd and literally I could not see any open space in the park. Really, I was shocked. Even where there was a fountain, the whole fountain was filled with people; even where there was water, they were standing in the water, there were so many people. It was hot, so they were standing. And the beautiful thing is because there was a fountain, the air was blowing the water all the way to the stage.

Prabhupāda: It is very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were preaching all this time.

Bali-mardana: Preaching and kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja chanted.

Morning Walk -- July 19, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja chanted.

Devotees: Oh, yes, very nice.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, this festival was wonderful. So many people took prasādam, and afterwards they had a play and then they had, they did some bhajanas, and the people were enchanted by the whole thing. And the neighbors there, they said that "In the five years I've lived by the park, the park has never been so nice." It was just wonderful. They say about seven thousand people took prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, seven thousand.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There was a line all the way around the park. They couldn't serve it out fast enough.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seven thousand took prasādam! That was the free prasādam. And another seven thousand we sold prasādam.

Hari-śauri: They had big queues for buying watermelon. Bali-mardana had bought lots of watermelon, and they were selling slices for fifty cents each.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Lassi also, and lemonade, very tasty.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were also selling lassi and lemonade. It was very big.

Bali-mardana: Burfi and lugloos, sweets, everything.

Morning Walk -- July 19, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: And then we had a life membership table with Gajahanta and Śravaṇānanda. The Indians were all coming, and there were chairs for them to sit down, and they were preaching to them life membership.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they had..., you know that little portable movie screen, you may have seen, it comes in an attache case.

Hari-śauri: Like Gargamuni's, he showed you in Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we had three of these set up, and many people were sitting in chairs watching the different movies.

Bali-mardana: It was amazing that one little generator was supplying all the power. This one little gasoline generator was supplying the power for all the sound and the various electricity things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there was no electrical hook-up; we did that with a gas generator.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And there was no sound, cutcutcutcutcut.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, because we put it very far away. In India that would be a nuisance, the sound of the...

Prabhupāda: So where is Ambarīṣa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was not in the parade.

Bali-mardana: He is going back to..., I spoke to him for a little while. He's going back to Boston right after the parade, I think, with Aja? I spoke to him; he seemed to be a nice boy. I asked him, because we were meeting with reporters. So they like to ask who is giving you big donations. I wasn't sure whether he wanted his name to be used or not, but he said, "Oh, yes, you can use it without any question. I do not mind at all." (pause)

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That's a fact, that I say always.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "But the Kṛṣṇa people were not entirely free of harassment. Along the parade route three men, including one who said he was an Evangelical Christian minister, jeered at the parade and called on parade watchers to become Christians. 'Idol worship. This is absolutely ridiculous. Read the Bible,' cried one man who would identify himself only as a normal Christian. There was a brief scuffle when an Indian immigrant tried to tear a large placard out of the hands of another heckler. The placard read 'Turn or Burn.' The police broke things up but made no arrests. 'They are insulting us,' said the Kṛṣṇa follower who declined to identify himself. 'I'm a devotee of Kṛṣṇa and Christ. These people who are doing this in the name of Christ are criminals.' " Very strong statement. "Except for the hecklers, however, the parade was generally very well received by passersby, who enjoyed the three multi-hued floats, the sun, and the chanting and dancing of the young Kṛṣṇa marchers. 'I think it's great,' said Tyrone Adams of Philadelphia, who was paying a visit to his home town of Inglewood, New Jersey. 'I'm not religious, but they're all happy and dancing, and that is what life is all about.' " Even a nonreligious person said that. "In Washington Square a crowd of about three thousand, many of whom were there as part of the normal Sunday afternoon activities, heard Swami Prabhupāda deliver a lecture. Later the crowd was served a free vegetarian feast. Along the side, Kṛṣṇa followers sold Indian sweets, Kṛṣṇa scriptures, and what one speaker described as 'transcendental paraphernalia.' "

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A thief suspects everyone as being a thief. So everybody's afraid because they know that they would attack everybody else. Therefore they think everyone else is in the same mood. They never think of people from other planets as being friendly. They always consider that they will immediately try to kill everyone and conquer, because that's what they would do. That's their business.

Rādhāvallabha: About thirty or forty years ago a man named Orson Welles did a..., he had a radio show, and just as a joke he started giving a news report that the Martians had landed, and people were panicking. They were trying to leave the city in cars in huge numbers.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bali-mardana: Thousands of people started to leave the city in fear. I think it was on April Fools? It was just a joke.

Hari-śauri: We can go down to the right, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...difference between a śūdra and brāhmaṇa. A śūdra can be misled at any moment. That is stated in... Strī śūdra. Woman and śūdra on the same class. You can mislead them by high talkings: "Oh, I am coming from Indian prince." They come here, marry some European, and go to India and then engage him (her) for collecting water in bucket. One Muhammadan crewman, a vagabond, he bluffed one girl that "I am coming from Muhammadan prince family." Then she married, and she went to Allahabad, and she was given borakhā and she was living in a hut, and then she was bringing water from the street. She wrote a letter to the Viceroy that "This is my position." Then police came and rescued her and sent her. (break)

Gurudāsa: ...Pañca-tantra about a jackal who poses as a king. He has blue dye on, so they think he's special, but when he heard other jackals, all he could do was howl, and he was exposed. (break)

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: That is real rest.

kṛṣṇa tvādīya-pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam

adyaiva viśatu me mānasa-rāja-haṁsaḥ

prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ

kaṇṭhāvarodhana-vidhau smaranaṁ kutas te

(MM 33)

The Mukunda-māla-stotra... There was a big emperor, Samrat(?), Kulaśekhara, emperor Kulaśekhara, he was a great devotee. So he wrote some poetry. Formerly, kings were so advanced, rajarṣi. They are king, at the same time, saintly persons. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2)—this science of Bhagavad-gītā was learned by the rājarṣis. People were happy therefore. The head, or the executive, they were all saintly persons. So this Kulasekhara, he writes in the beginning of his poetry, "Kṛṣṇa, O Kṛṣṇa..." Kṛṣṇa tvādīya-pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam. The paṅkaja means lotus flower. So Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet is just like lotus flower. The lotus flower has stem down, and the swans, they take pleasure to go down the water and entangled by the stem. Have you seen their pleasure? Yes. That is their great sporting, to be entangled by the stem and come out, in this way, go deep, this is their sporting. So this Kulasekhara is praying, "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, let my swan of mind be entangled with the stem of Your lotus feet." Kṛṣṇa tvādīya-pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam adyaiva: "Immediately"—viśatu—"let enter." Who? Adyaiva viśatu me, "My," mānasa-rāja-haṁsaḥ, "my mind, which is just like a swan." So why adyaiva, immediately? He says that prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye, "At the time of death," prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ, "when the physical condition of the body will be in disorder," kapha, pitta, vayu will not be in order.... Prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ kaṇṭhāvarodha, "At that time I shall not be able to speak. I'll 'ahn, ahn,' but that's all. So I may not be able to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Better I am now in good health, so let my mind be entangled in the stem of Your lotus feet." Very nice poetry.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nephew was my sister's son. We had to maintain one sister and her family. She became widow. So this is Hindu family obligation. When the daughter is widow, she comes to the father's shelter with all family. The father has to maintain.

Hari-śauri: You wouldn't get that in the West. (laughs) They don't even maintain their own parents.

Prabhupāda: On the whole, during British time, people were happy, that I can... The thing is that Britishers were little afraid that "If the government is not good, it will go against our credit, that we may agitate." So they were careful to see that people are happy. But here nobody's careful. Everyone thinks "I'm in my own country. Whatever I do, it is all right." They were conscious, that "We are foreigners. If the management is not good, then it will go against our credit and it will be difficult working such a big England empire." So they were little careful. But these rascals are not... Just like the governor, he was friendly, but what is the report? Did he say? Did not behave very nicely?

Harikeśa: He wasn't interested to help for the tax exemption.

Hari-śauri: Yes, you told me before, Bon Mahārāja and Tīrtha Mahārāja, they were writing all these big, big men, but they told them frankly, that "I'm not going to do anything for you."

Prabhupāda: None of them. Formerly, a British governor, secretary, was a friend. You could get some service from him. The Britishers they knew the etiquette that if friends ask some help, I must help you. That is etiquette.

Hari-śauri: Now there's so much self-interest, they don't...

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Iran at that time was even cheaper, much cheaper. Because you had the British in India, you were...

Prabhupāda: Yes, when India was native state, they were cheaper. In India, this inflation was caused by Mr. Churchill. During the war he wanted men to join the fighting, so people were not coming. So artificially...

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Printed money?

Prabhupāda: No, artificially increased the price. So they were obliged to join.

Hari-śauri: He'd increase the price and then advertise free food in the army.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (passerby makes comment)

Hari-śauri: What does he say?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He first said "Please pray for me." But then he's joking. He's saying also that he should take good care of us, we are guests here.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: That man should take good care of us, bring us tea.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. They drink too much tea here?

Nava-yauvana: Yes. Every place you go they offer you tea.

Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Avyabhicāriṇī, yes. Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate. Avyabhicāreṇa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He is above three guṇas. So if I am still under the modes of material nature, that means I'm not in avyabhicāriṇī-bhakti. This is the warning. Therefore Lord Buddha rejected Vedas.

Dr. Patel: Because, sir, in the name of Veda people were misbehaving.

Prabhupāda: Vedas, when Lord Buddha wanted stop animal killing, these rascals came with Vedas. "Vedas there is sacrifice, there is animal killing." So he thought that these rascals will create botheration. By bringing Vedas, there is... He said, "I don't care for it."

veda nā māniyā bauddha haya ta nāstika

vedāśraya nāstikya-vāda bauddhake adhika

Similarly, these rascals are giving evidence of Rūpa Gosvāmī's advice, that "Here is Rādhā-kuṇḍa..." But whether you have followed other things.

Guest: Vāco vegaṁ manasaḥ...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vāco vegaṁ manasaḥ krodha-vegaṁ, pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt. Etān vegān yo viṣa... You are manipulated by the udara-vegam, upastha-vegam. First there is test: etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ (NOI 1). Then for him Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). He has got three dozen sevā-dāsī, and living in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. My Guru Mahārāja wanted to publish Govinda-līlāmṛta. He asked permission of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. So first of all Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, "I'll tell you some day." And when he reminded, he said, "Yes you can print one copy. If you are so much anxious to print it, print one copy. You'll read and you will see that you have printed. Not for distribution." So we are printing all these books for understanding properly. Not that "Here is Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Let us go." Jump over like monkey. "Here is rāsa-līlā. Immediately..."

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: What is the sitting room?

Saurabha: That is about 900, 850 square foot.

Prabhupāda: Eight hundred means length and breadth?

Saurabha: Because it consists of three rooms.

Prabhupāda: So people were enthusiastic to come to our festival?

Saurabha: Oh, yes, very much.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Saurabha: And this place, when it is finished, it will be the most popular temple in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: They have done.

Saurabha: It's already the biggest. So this is the building, (unfolding plans) and these three rooms—this is 32 by 32—is your sitting room where you can receive people. Then here is your bedroom, and here is the secretary room, here is kitchen, and here is servant room. So personally you have this, four rooms.

Prabhupāda: What are these?

Saurabha: This is the elevator.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, our Gītār Gān is selling.

Jayapatākā: Yes. When we stopped at Burdwan, in one place, one boy sold 198 Bhagavad-gītās, Gītār Gān, without moving. So many Gītās... People were just crowding around taking Gītās so much that the local... There were some bookstores. They also came and they said that "We cannot get wholesale? We have never seen such a book sell so well."

Gargamuni: Even people come to the temple in Calcutta, they want ten, fifteen copies. Village people. Poor people. They come and say, "Gītār Gān, where is that? I have heard." And they take ten or fifteen copies, they wrap it in their cloth and bring it to the village. It is becoming very popular. Wherever you go, "Where is this Gītār Gān?"

Jayapatākā: I went to Writer's Building, I had four or five copies with me. I didn't go for selling. I went to see ministers. But all the peons, they were buying the Gītār Gāns from me. I sold out. People were coming up with rupees saying, "Gītār Gān." I didn't have any more.

Prabhupāda: Out of their own accord they...

Gargamuni: No, they've heard of it. It's becoming famous.

Jayapatākā: That's our inspiration, that if we can make Gītār Gān and Your Divine Grace famous all over Bengal, then we will feel that our mission...

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: 1950 or little before that. They have got their old Gauḍīyas.

Jayapatākā: They must have.

Prabhupāda: They were so popular, the report was that the readers of Gauḍīya were only hankering after that Bhagavāner Kathā, and after reading that they will throw away. Other articles, they were not interested.

Jayapatākā: So always your writing, people were attracted by.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact. Even my teachers were attracted in school days.

Jayapatākā: Recently that..., some professor said that you are the veritable incarnation of Vyāsadeva for Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some have said like that. In my matriculation class I wrote some essay and I got out of 100, 85 marks. But the teacher came to the class, "Who has written this?" So I stood up, and he thanked me, "Yes, it is very nice." He especially came to thank me for that essay.

Gargamuni: At least from the human standpoint, it is not humanly possible to have so many books in such a short time. There is no other author, at least that we know.

Jayapatākā: I showed your "As Brilliant as the Sun" to Tarun Kanti Gosh and one other minister, and when they saw that, then after, for ten minutes, all they could say was how Prabhupāda, how he is empowered by Lord Gaurāṅga.

Prabhupāda: They said like that.

Room Conversation -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Get this cheap edition. You can order cheap edition. (break. Paṇḍita chants Śrī Īśopaniṣad and Gāyatrī. Prabhupāda speaks in Hindi, quoting Sanskrit ślokas.) (break)

Mahāṁsa: They will not part with even one thousand rupees. They're exactly what you described. And also these were the people who are with Śaṅkarācārya who came the first time when you had come here. They were with Śaṅkarācārya. And Hariprasad and some Marwaris were with our movement and these people were on the other side. So there was some conflict at that time. And Śaṅkarācārya came and you...

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya, he says that you are bhagavān.

Mahāṁsa: Yes. Also nirākāra. All these things they have been influenced. But practically now they are slowly coming to accept us. There is one Mr. Badanman who was the host of Śaṅkarācārya and for two and a half years he never came here, he never entertained the devotees.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That would be poison.

Mahāṁsa: Yes. But then since last six to seven months, he has been completely convinced about us and he has been going around collecting money from other Marwaris for the temple construction. He was simply convinced by seeing the Hare Kṛṣṇa film. And by seeing the Deities he was so much taken aback, and he was so much wonderstruck with the Deities which he saw on the film.

Prabhupāda: You were also present then?

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Caraṇāravindam: It was similar in old England in the knights' time.

Prabhupāda: That is the whole world history. Now they have made encumbrance. Naturally, a class of men, they became soldiers. They were trained up, and...

Caraṇāravindam: Whenever I visited a village in India, people were always very friendly. "Sit down, take some meal." Or if I walk through a field they will pick something from a tree, some tomatoes, or some vegetables and give it to me.

Prabhupāda: You can grow some tomatoes here. That is a very easy thing.

Caraṇāravindam: I have also some and some different seeds to plant.

Prabhupāda: Tomato, squash.

Caraṇāravindam: You would like to see growing in your garden a little sabji?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very... Cucumber. These things can be grown very easily. And zucchini. Called zucchini?

Hari-śauri: Yes. It's like a small marrow, zucchini.

Caraṇāravindam: I would like to get, I don't know...

Prabhupāda: No, there is not much place here.

Caraṇāravindam: Some things we can grow.

Prabhupāda: But this green banana if we get that will be nice.

Room Conversation -- September 16, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, also. Otherwise, we have seen in our childhood how happy people were. They were. Simple. If one has five rupees income per month he's happy. I've seen it. Husband, wife, a small family. If he has got five rupees income, they can maintain very nicely, happily. Why not? Suppose he has got five rupees income. The rice was selling at four rupees. So two person, say one-fourth kg., one-fourth share each. A gentleman cannot eat more than that. So means half a share. And the whole month, fifteen share. It is about one rupee eight annas. And further, one rupees eight annas add for vegetables and other things. With three rupees they can maintain, the husband and wife. And two rupees still there. He can spend for other purposes. I have seen it. Fresh vegetables, rice, this and... Just like with banana leaf. The pots were of earthen, the wife is cooking and she's utilizing dry foliage as fuel, a little temperature, everything is cooked. The husband takes one banana leaf and spreads, and the wife gives sufficient rice, vegetables. And things were so cheap. I have seen it. And fresh.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, everything, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Anything fresh. Any cultivator, he has got little land surrounding his house and he's growing vegetables like squash, chilis, and some spinage, spinach?

Haṁsadūta: Spinach, śāka.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And...

Room Conversation -- September 30, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: One boy, he was coming to me. In that hundred, about one hundred seventy-first street, all my things were stolen. My tape recorder, typewriter. Fortunately they did not touch my manuscript that I was typing, typing my books. So some money was stolen. Then one boy, he was coming to me, he told me, "Please come to my place." A loft. Bowery Street. I did not know the Bowery Street was not a good quarter. All bums and drunks. When I see there, one Jewish friend, he had electrical shop, he told me, "Swamiji, you have gone to Bowery Street? Oh, it is not your place." I did not know that it is full of drunkards. But they were lying down in front of my door, but they were very respectful. When I'd go, these drunkards comes and they respectfully give me ways. And they would lie down on urine and something like that, on water. Then the boy who took me there... He was Murray. His last title was Murray. And he was taking LSD. So since I went there he did not go to work. Otherwise, he was working and getting daily twenty-five dollars, in some dock he was working. Since I went, he stopped working, and I had to pay 125 dollars for the loft. One lady was the landlord. So I was going on. Some people were coming. That Mukunda began to come, his wife, and another black boy, half-black. Yeargen, Karlapati. I gave him name, Karlapati. He was coming. Then one day that boy Murray, he showed some crazy features. So I thought it is dangerous to live with him. So I approached Mukunda. Mukunda had no place, still I asked him. So I kept my goods at Mukunda's house and went to live with Yeargen. That is another loft. So in this way, with great hardship—sometimes here, sometimes there—in this way, I got two hundred dollars by selling books, and then I asked Mukunda to find out an apartment. He found this apartment, 26 Second Avenue. One storefront down and one living quarters up. So I found it very convenient. Down I would lecture and hold kīrtana. So he charged 75 dollars per month for the apartment, small apartment. I think in a space like this room or less than that, everything is there. There was kitchen, there was shower, and two rooms. I think less than this. Two-thirds of this room and everything there. So I shifted there. And there I remained up to May 1967, I think.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: No, no, extortion, what do you mean by extortion? If I ask you donation and if you pay, does it mean it is extortion?

Interviewer: They say those two people were kept in custody before...

Prabhupāda: That is false accusation. There was no such charge. Besides that, we do not have many contributions. We have got contributions, big lumps of money. One of my disciples is the great-grandson of Mr. Henry Ford. So he has given a big contribution, and he's always prepared to spend for me. He has got enough money. Another boy, George Harrison, Beatle, he has given us the London temple. It is worth about fifty-five, sixty lakhs worth. So we don't get any money, but they have given us many buildings. And our main source of income is the selling of these books. We are selling books daily all over the world, five to six lakhs rupees.

Interviewer: Five to six lakhs...

Prabhupāda: Rupees. Per day.

Interviewer: Per day!

Prabhupāda: And by this collection, from this collection, we are bringing money in India. We are bringing money in India not less than ten lakhs of rupees per month. Our buildings and temples are going on in Bombay, in Vṛndāvana, in Navadvīpa. So we have got at least ten lakhs of rupees expenditure for these temples, and that I am bringing from foreign countries. So if by laboring hard at night in this dictaphone, I write books and I sell them in the foreign countries and I bring the money here for spending in India, do you think it is faulty?

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Here they never satisfied. This is the modern mentality. Nobody is satisfied with his income. He wants more money. And for that purpose he can do anything rascal. I have seen it. This peon puts his bag without any responsibility. Letters are strewn and maybe some letters stolen. Who can say? And he came to earn some money. For some time he'll compose and get some labor. And in Calcutta I have seen all the office peons, they are sleeping in Dalhousie Square, the peon book as the pillow, for hours together. And when they, after distributing, when they return to the office it is going to be closed. And if they are asked explanation, "Why you are so late?" "Oh, he was not there. I had to wait three hours," and so on, so on, so on. Everyone is dishonest. Nobody is working honestly. Especially in India, because poverty-stricken. If they can sleep two hours he thinks that he has made some profit. Formerly people were God conscious. They did not like to cheat, that "God will be displeased." Now they don't believe in God, so they can do anything.

Akśayananda: Now that we've become devotee.

Prabhupāda: "Everyone is God."

Akśayananda: If we sleep for two hours we think we have wasted two hours.

Prabhupāda: That should be. Sleeping is waste of time. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **, we have to conquer over eating and sleeping and mating.

Hari-śauri: Just the opposite to the karmīs. They want to increase their eating. (break)

Prabhupāda: Formerly, when I was in Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, there was a khol manufacturer here. Is he here still? He supplied me khol very nice, very big. This khol was taken to Germany or...

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You have got the contemplative man with you. (indistinct)

Indian man: Yes sir.

Dr. Kneupper: This will be over 300 acres if it's...

Prabhupāda: Three hundred fifty acres.

Dr. Kneupper: It's a large city. Fifty thousand, did you say? People? How many people were there?

Jagadīśa: Fifty thousand.

Dr. Kneupper: Fifty thousand.

Prabhupāda: Expecting fifty thousand. The real (indistinct).

Devotee: That's what we're trying to bring together here in this city. (indistinct-conversation going on) and then all around, the different communities, vaiśya community, the merchant community (indistinct), their own communities.

Dr. Kneupper: I see.

Hari-śauri: According to the Vedic system (indistinct—more than one person speaking)

Jagadīśa: Read?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Jagadīśa: All these... Kīrtanānanda Swami was there and a boy who was kidnapped, Vasu Gopāla, as well as Dr. Harvey Cox, the Civil Liberties Attorney who is defending us, and Dr. Stephen Corover, a psychologist, Jack Colley, who's a renowned religious scholar, and Dr. Eck, a lecturer in Sanskrit and India studies at Harvard. The public was invited and they had questions from the floor and all of the members of the panel, important people, were all in our support. It's very long...

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Hari-śauri: There's one interesting statement in there from one of these men. He's lived in Vṛndāvana for about two years. And he says how when he first went to Vṛndāvana, all the people there, they would chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma, but it was kind of a derogatory thing because they had seen this film, Dum-mada-dam. So whenever they saw a Westerner they thought, "Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma," implying, "Oh, you're a hippie, you're a drug addict." Like that. But he said in the last two or three years since we established our temple, now that is completely changed. They're still saying, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma," all the children shout it, but now they expect us to shout "Haribol" back and that it's a sign of, it's a friendly gesture now. So he's an outsider, but he's noticed the change in the Indian people's attitude, especially in Vṛndāvana.

Jagadīśa: He said, "Any Westerner they see in Vṛndāvana they say Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma."

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (referring to Kumbhamela?) When I was in midst of the crowd, the crowd was so big that I was afraid: "If there is any rush, this child will be finished." Because if there is little rush, you cannot go back; you cannot go forward.

Hari-śauri: Yes, if you go in a crowd.

Prabhupāda: It is very dangerous. And if there is some force, you become suffocated. So still, people were going slowly. By grace of Kṛṣṇa nothing happened. But same thing happened later years when Jawaharlal Nehru was present. So many people crashed and fallen in the river Yamunā and died.

Hari-śauri: Drowned in the river.

Prabhupāda: The rush came, and there was no protection.

Hari-śauri: We'll have to be very careful if we go to bathe in the river.

Prabhupāda: No, now they make arrangement, section by bamboo, so the rush may not be very pressurable. Section by section. So section they go. Now the arrangement is better. But formerly the arrangement was not... It was open, and people come. As soon as there is little rush, pushing, there is great danger.

Hari-śauri: (laughs) Sounds like an auspicious place to die, though.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I remember that day. I was thinking that "Such a big rush, forty million." Forty million, er four million.

Hari-śauri: Four million.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Gurudāsa: Some people come, but I think once we start our saṅkīrtana and leaflets... The mela officials said, "We put you there because you will draw, and others will not. People will want to come to you, so they will make an effort to come to you."

Prabhupāda: But there is easy way to come?

Gurudāsa: It's not that difficult. It's just a little distant. Some people were coming. Cars can come also. If they want to come, they can come. It's not far, but it's not so close. I wanted to give you a proper picture. I didn't want...

Prabhupāda: No, our former camp, last time...? So this is not so good?

Gurudāsa: Location was better. But our living is better this time. Living is better, but location was better last time.

Prabhupāda: That location cannot be had. What is the reason?

Gurudāsa: Well, first of all, when I came they already settled it up. There's nothing I can do, you know. I said immediately, "This is not such a good location." And Bhāgavata said, "I did not know. I saw it on the map. I had no experience." So I didn't blame him because he didn't know. So they said that "You will draw people, and so we thought we would put others..." I think it is political.

Hari-śauri: "You draw more people, so you can go out of the way."

Prabhupāda: Political?

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Gurudāsa: Yes. I think that many people were pushing for good positions, and we did not push, and... Last year was good, but, of course, the saṅgam has shifted a little. The saṅgam has shifted to the island where we are. The governor's camp is on the island. And there's some people. Maharishi is on the island. It's just I didn't want to say it's a wonderful location and then you come there and see that it's a little bit far off. I wanted to tell you...

Prabhupāda: Only it is far off.

Gurudāsa: And there's another slight defect, which is that it's underneath a railway bridge.

Prabhupāda: Railway bridge?

Gurudāsa: But with all the things that are going on, you can't even hear the trains. Now everyone's starting with... And we have the biggest microphones in the whole Mela. Everyone's got microphones this big. And speakers? Speakers? Ours is this big. We've got the biggest ones, six of them, to point in all directions. So that... We thought we would make up for the distance. I thought I would make up by big speakers. We told Kamalapati Tripati that, "Yes, we are living underneath one of your railway bridges," and he laughed.

Prabhupāda: Ah, he's railway member. So railway bridge there is sound.

Gurudāsa: Yes, but... When trains come by there is sound. Yes, there is sound.

Hari-śauri: There is electricity?

Gurudāsa: There will be, yes.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all. (laughs) Then do it now. And I shall spend all this money for advertisement. That's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: One of the biggest bookstores in Bombay, International Book House, has arranged a whole window display of your books.

Prabhupāda: That is useless.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people were seeing it.

Prabhupāda: Useless. I know these men. But you can get some customers. That's all right. Do they purchase or simply display?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. They purchase also.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Rāmeśvara: Actually in Belgium the National Museum has also set up in their main window a display of your books. And that's very good for a museum, because they do not sell there, but they are considering it so important and scholarly that they are displaying them for the public to see.

Prabhupāda: That is good recommendation, yes. If that museum is so important, so to keep our books there is prestigious. In Europe, America, it is going on nice. Now here we have to take advantage of these papers. So I have already given Jagadīśa the idea. Now you immediately put into effect. You keep that also with your papers, this format. Yes.

Hari-śauri: Will there be an address on the advertisement for people to write to?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The Book Trust office.

Prabhupāda: So you take your rest now. Then you shall come and go on talking.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: We are not dry, simply talking philosophy. "Take prasāda. Eat sumptuously."

Rāmeśvara: In America, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if people become followers of a particular music group, then they take their message and their life-style very seriously. Just like when the people were following the Beatles, and then the Beatles became involved with meditation, so this made it very popular in America. If the group becomes... If the music group becomes popular, then whatever they do, everyone follows. So I am thinking that we can make this music group, Golden Avatar, very popular. Then everyone will find out that they believe in reincarnation and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everyone will follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes, something "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa" music must be there.

Rāmeśvara: Now, to make this group very popular, they have to have Western dress.

Prabhupāda: Never mind.

Rāmeśvara: That's no problem.

Prabhupāda: No.

Rāmeśvara: And they have to have long hair or wigs, or else they grow it. But somehow or other, they cannot be shaven-headed Hare Kṛṣṇaś.

Prabhupāda: Long hair is not... We should not do that.

Rāmeśvara: They have to have wigs then.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Cheated him. He was such swine. He was such big swine.

Rāmeśvara: And right after he was killed, anyone who followed him, they made the lions eat them. It's common knowledge that the early Christians were dragged into a big arena, and the lions were let out of their cages and devoured them. And the people were cheering. The public was invited to the event, and they were cheering.

Prabhupāda: That Rome.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Your civilization is such.

Hari-śauri: Mr. Gupta just sent a big basket full of oranges from Nagpur.

Jagadīśa: This is a tarshi? Are they named tarshi?

Hari-śauri: I'm not sure.

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) Therefore it is mentioned.

Rāmeśvara: Now, one of their arguments is... Their main thing is to try to pretend that it is not a question of religion.

Prabhupāda: So, one thing is that if you have proved a swine, what is the value of your arguments? You have proved that you are a swine. So better stop arguing. What I say, you accept. That is good for you. Because you are descendants of swine, and actually you are doing that.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Hm, that's right. He is sincere devotee and he's... But as soon as you give something to manage, he'll make a mess. (laughs) I have told him that "I shall pay you. You continue this prasāda distribution, kīrtana program." They are coming, up to two hundred. And now he has finished it.

Rāmeśvara: Two hundred people were coming every day.

Prabhupāda: Every day. And that is little, simple prasāda. Little kittri would satisfy them. They're village people.

Rāmeśvara: So they have to regular source of income.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And so long there is no income, I shall supply food or money.

Rāmeśvara: This year I think I can spend some time developing this record. I'm sure we can make money.

Prabhupāda: Yes, make money.

Rāmeśvara: With very little manpower.

Prabhupāda: And send... Send grains. Send grains, food grains, and we shall utilize it in all our temples and farm projects in the beginning. Then they'll... Naturally they'll produce. As soon as they become little interested in our scheme, they'll give service.

Rāmeśvara: And this will also be a good angle for getting the record tax exempt. The books are already tax exempt, but not the record. So if the money from the record is going to be used for feeding people...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That atta, one bag.

Gargamuni: One bag a week.

Prabhupāda: And Kīrtanānanda was preparing at a time at least ten capatis in that oven, very quickly. Yes. And Jadurāṇī was rolling. Everyone was engaged. And on Saturday we prepared so many samosas, puris and sweetballs, kept in stock, and Sunday people were coming. At least seventy-five guests.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. In that little room...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: ...in 26 Second Avenue.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: It was packed up.

Prabhupāda: Acyutānanda's mother was coming. Sometimes your mother came? No.

Gargamuni: Not for a feast, but she came.

Prabhupāda: No, she used to come. And kissing you. (laughter) He's very pet son of his mother. Sometimes I told her, "Mrs. Bruce, you can give us some money." "I have given my two sons!" And "That's all right." I have met his mother, is very nice lady.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: He doesn't know what to call this state, so he considers it similar to a spiritual body. But anyway, it appears to be a subtle body. He says that "People find themselves when they're out of their physical bodies, that although they may try to communicate to others, no one seems to hear them, that they are also invisible to others, and that they lack solidity. People were walking..." Here's a description of one man who was in a car accident. "People were walking up from all directions to get to the car accident. As they came by, they wouldn't seem to notice me. They would just keep walking with their eyes straight ahead. As they came very close, I would try to get out of their way, but they would walk right through me."

Prabhupāda: Car accident? He is lying down?

Rāmeśvara: His body is lying down, and somehow he experiences that he has left his body.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...

Hari-śauri: He's observing the whole scene.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Rāmeśvara: The man. The living being.

Prabhupāda: The man who suffered from the car accident?

Devotees: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No. You are nonsense, that is accepted, but do not think that because you have manufactured printing press, you have become God. That is our proposal. We give you credit. And we can also say that without your printing press, people were not dying. Formerly people were copying. Everyone's business was going on. There was no need of mass studying. Only the brāhmaṇas, they used to copy and they used to vibrate the knowledge. And those who were interested, they were hearing and getting the knowledge. So what was the harm? It is little facility that... The same logic: The dog is running, four legs, you are running by four wheels. That does not mean that the dog will die, you'll not die. You'll die also, and dog will die. So this four-wheel car will not help you ultimately. Ultimately you have to die.

Satsvarūpa: Because it is modern times, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can keep pace with all these things, but we don't need them. We can use this, but if we don't have it, then we don't need it.

Prabhupāda: We don't support it. Our business does not support. You can live without car, but you cannot live without rainfall. Why don't you take the important business? Make machine that the water from the sea can be drawn and saltless and distributed. Why don't you do that?

Satsvarūpa: They've put aside the big problems and doing little things.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Very good. This is very nice.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. We had also classes like this in Paris. People were coming just to learn how to cook. And in that way they could hear the philosophy.

Gargamuni: Prabhupāda, these are the vehicles that I can get for three thousand rupees.

Prabhupāda: Then you have to repair.

Gargamuni: Yes, but still, this vehicle, if it was being sold... (break)

Prabhupāda: Authority is sufficient. And if he's imperfect, he cannot be authority. So change of authority means everyone is imperfect, so why shall I do like that?

Satsvarūpa: That's even... That's their philosophy. There's a saying, "Nobody's perfect."

Prabhupāda: No. That you do not know, who is perfect. That is your ignorance. We know. If I know who is perfect, why shall I take your advice, "Nobody is perfect"? Kṛṣṇa is perfect. I know from authorities, from perfect persons.

Hari-śauri: Then they might argue that "I have my authority, and I'm happy to live by it."

Prabhupāda: But you do not believe in authority. You say, "Nobody is perfect." How you get, have, authority? Your statement is "Nobody is perfect," so how you can get?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: "...in Santa Claus?"

Gargamuni: I think people were more amused than they were angry.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is amusing.

Gargamuni: At least the newspaper article in the Statesman was very amusing. It did not criticize, because it mentioned that by wearing these suits we are able to distribute many literatures on God consciousness, which is the real meaning of Christmas. They wrote this in the States... So it was favorable.

Nanda-kumāra: In Los Angeles there was some controversy, some trouble. So they had big signs that said "ISKCON," and they had a thing printed up that they put on the bucket that they were collecting with. It said, "Help us put the real spirit of God back into Christmas." And people appreciated that. It stated who we were and stated that...

Hari-śauri: Whenever there's some controversy there's always somebody that was dead against and there's always someone who's for you, but the general public, they just observe.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It makes a better point for them instead of making a better point for ourselves.

Prabhupāda: Against party, they take it.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's good. Similarly Los Angeles, and other...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So by this counter-propaganda we have not lost anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. People were not so much aware of what our movement stood for. Now, with this propaganda, we're getting an opportunity to explain to them what our movement means.

Prabhupāda: I wanted that all our books should be given to the court: "This is our statement." Let him read. He can...

Brahmānanda: We received that tape where you tell the story of Mr. Ghosh bringing all the books just to...

Hari-śauri: "Just to teach you law."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: "Just to teach you law."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. There was big lawyer. In those days he was earning not less than thirty-thousand per month. Rajbery Ghosh, Doctor. He was Doctor. So in one case he brought so many books in the court, the judge remarked, "Well, Dr. Ghosh, You have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." (laughs) No, any statement we give, it has to be considered. They cannot neglect. So you can simply put these books, eighty-four books: "This is our statement. You read them. Then give your judgement." How do you think? Did you consult any lawyer?

Room Conversation -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, is there any time, every day?

Gargamuni: Yes. It starts... They open at one, but everyone comes around four-thirty, five, up through nine. So we get about five hours. In five hours we sold 850 books.

Prabhupāda: Electric? Electricity they supply?

Gargamuni: Yes. They had a loudspeaker next to our stall. So this was hindering the film. And the manager, they wouldn't turn it down, you know, because so many people were being attracted, they wanted to stop us, so I gave some small bribe and made a man climb up and take it down, and now it's all right. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: This is called how to do business, (laughter) natural instinct from his father.

Gargamuni: I had no intelligence till I met you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Yaśomatī-nandana: Even Sanātana Gosvāmī bribed to get out of the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. We can do everything for Kṛṣṇa—for Kṛṣṇa, not for personal sake. So your drama is going on.

Gargamuni: Yes, I heard about it.

Prabhupāda: Last night it was very successful.

Hṛdayānanda: I think in India the people never become tired of Rāmāyaṇa. The people here never becomes tired of seeing Rāmāyaṇa.

Gargamuni: Even our men at the stall, they were very much appreciative that the people coming were very much... They were accepting prasādam without any hesitations. They were taking it very humbly.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The one who asked the question, "What is the most important thing in life?"

Prabhupāda: No, if our movement is organizedly pushed on, the Rajneesh position will be over. Rajneesh is already finished. He has no place in Bombay.

Guest (1): No, he has been driven out of Bombay. He has gone to Poona because all the hocus-pocus was going on, people were complaining. So on moral ground, he has been shifted to... I mean he had to go to Poona.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why do they let him stay there?

Guest (1): Because the people are not opposing. If they opposed him, he shall have to vacate there also.

Prabhupāda: What about Sai Baba?

Guest (1): He is doing some, but... He is doing all this gold bangles, and gold rings and all those things, giving it to the people. So people are attracted. Sometimes the biggest families which are blessed by him are also in Karmanis.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What happened to them?

Guest (1): They are all fighting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of them died, I remember.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: Then much water was thrown in the Arabian Sea, and for nineteen months I was in jails.

Prabhupāda: Jail?

Mr. Rajda: Yes. In that emergency, you know, and about 150,000, patriotic people were in jails, J. K. Prakash, Morarji and all Hindu leaders and all of the workers. So I was kept at Central Prison for nineteen months. Then they released me, and after this election period, just I would order to fight the elections from Bombay South. And with her blessings I have won it with a very comfortable margin, 65,000. Just now we were at Shivaji Pack. And when Girirājajī told me that you were here, I told him definitely I would like to ask for darśana.

Prabhupāda: The material adjustment... Just like we felt little danger under the regime of Indira Gandhi. Now we have another feeling. This is material adjustment. Material adjustment may be temporary beneficial, but that is not permanent beneficial.

Mr. Rajda: Unless there is adhyātmika adjustment, there cannot be lasting benefit.

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is... That we do not know. Just like you take a fish from the water and put it on the land. It will never become happy. Again you throw him in the water, he will feel happy. So the living entity is different from prakṛti. In Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly stated, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtim. These material elements, earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind, intelligence, ego, these are gross and subtle material elements. And the living being, jīva-bhūta, is superior than the inferior material elements. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. Parā-prakṛti, it is part and parcel of God. Unless we understand this fact, which is very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, this material adjustment will never make us happy.

Mr. Rajda: As far as this change is concerned, the basic difference is formerly there was no moral code observed by the rulers.

Prabhupāda: It can deteriorate at any moment.

Mr. Rajda: That interpretation is there, that is there.

Prabhupāda: You cannot say...

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This year. Over ten thousand people came.

Prabhupāda: They are, after all, Mathurā men, after Kṛṣṇa. They have got natural love for Kṛṣṇa.

Dhanañjaya: Also the decoration was very gorgeous in the temple. All the domes were lit, and in the front door two cakras and one lotus flower, opening and closing. Thousands of people were coming daily to attend it. We inherited all the American devotees that come. So they were very anxious to see the arrangements made. Also the signs are up on the road, Bhaktivedanta Swami Marga. Big marble plaque. Very nice stone fitting. In two places on the road.

Prabhupāda: On all the roads.

Dhanañjaya: Everyone knows, this is now Bhaktivedanta Swami Marga. No longer Chattikara Road.

Prabhupāda: But you have printed Bhaktivedanta Marga.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhaktivedanta Swami Marga.

Prabhupāda: No. In the book, I see. Why?

Devotee: Bhaktivedanta Road.

Dhanañjaya: Well, you see, what happened was, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they put it in Hindi Bhaktivedanta Swami Marga. And the marble cutters, they made mārga instead of road.

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now in our childhood, when we were ten-years-old boy, my father used to purchase high kilo saraṣera tela, for eight annas. Can these rascals do to that standard? Eight annas, first-class Kanpur mustard oil. Now that oil... Not that quality oil, still, they are being sold thirteen rupees per kilo, instead of three annas.

Dr. Sharma: They were always, even in a small village, there were five or ten good people were to do the kīrtana. You know, they had a knack of one particular instrument, they could get up and all on the Janmāṣṭamī and so many festivals they used to have kīrtana. And all, you know, small village, even nook and corner of the country, bubbling with life, religious life. This is only twenty-five years ago, even thirty years ago it was there. And look now...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is better late than never. (Hindi) We are sending our men from village to village. Not only here, also in the European countries.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one of our basic points is that we are not this body but we are actually soul. So I would wonder how Dr. Sharma, he is a specialist in, I think, cardiology...

Dr. Sharma: Cardiac surgery.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we say that the soul is in the heart. So how can we convince the other doctors, for example, of the presence of the soul within the body and especially within the heart?

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He says, "Like any other revealed scripture, the Bible's teachings are absolute, but are they to be understood literally or symbolically, and are they applicable for all men?"

Prabhupāda: Literally, not symbolically.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "What is the actual meaning of the sacrifice of the cross, Jesus dying on the cross?"

Prabhupāda: It has no meaning. The people were so rascal that they attempted to kill him. Because he was speaking of God. So we can understand the pollution of the then society, how intelligent they were. He had to deal with such rascals that he was speaking about God and the result is that they wanted to kill him first. He preached, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed him first. This is their intelligence. Now people are advanced. Those doctrines, they are not (indistinct). That's all. The answer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Did Jesus die on the cross to redeem all the sins of the world?"

Prabhupāda: This is another sinful thought—Jesus has taken contract for ridding your sinful activities. That's a plea, what is called plea for the sinners, that they will continue acting sinfully, and Christ will take contract to counteract. This is most sinful conviction. Instead of stopping sinful activities, we have given contract to Jesus Christ to counteract it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So these people are not actually getting free of their sins unless they stop sinning.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of his preaching? They will continue sinful activities, and Jesus Christ will take contract for saving them. How nonsense idea this is! Bhavānanda, do you think it is good idea?

Bhavānanda: Not a good idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That I have heard it. Maybe in the Bhāgavata. Such a nice thing. Alone in this world I am struggling, and the so-called intelligent persons, they will not come. They have business. Why? If it is actually beneficial to the human society, why I should alone try? I will go on trying so long I'll live. There will be no checking of... But what kind of intelligent persons there are? (Govindam record in background) It has been approved by intelligent men like... From our section. Most wretched rogues. They do work. They are not so. They are intelligent. They have rejected all these "Lord" ideas and the... Because they have sinned, all humbug. Especially in the Western countries, in the Christian world, what is there? It is bogus. I have condemned it. You have seen that book? One Christian boy inquired. Have you got the copy? Bring. (pause) We shall go on playing govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam aham. People may hear or not hear. We don't mind.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To Mr. Francois Pierre. "My dear Francois." He's in France. "Please accept my blessings. I beg to thank you for your letter dated March 17th. Try to understand our mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The world is all going to hell. They do not know what is the value of life. Like blind sheep following a blind leader, they are all going to the slaughterhouse. Human life is meant for saving, but instead the leaders are keeping the people in darkness. This is suicidal. Let us try to save them. Christian, Hindu, or Muslim, it doesn't matter. One must have faith in God. But if one does not know what is God, then what is the question of religion? This sectarian view has caused havoc in the world. Our real business is to know God and one's relationship with God. Do you know what is God? The answers to your questions are as follows: 1) Yes, the message of Jesus is universally applicable. Why not? Jesus says, 'Thou shalt not kill.' This is applicable to all. But all Christians are violating this law. So where is a Christian? In my opinion there is not a single Christian. Do they follow all ten commandments? 2) We accept Jesus Christ as śaktyāveśa-avatāra, an empowered incarnation of God. 3) The Bible should be accepted literally and not symbolically. There is no symbolical meaning of the sacrifice on the cross. The people were so rascal.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is what the usual belief is. The usual belief is that it was due to Gandhi's nonviolence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is said in Hong Kong, somewhere. People were astonished. Nobody said like that. And this is the fact.

Guest (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I have small request. I have a friend who is M.D., and he is doing research in Hyderabad. He is about eighty-three years old. So I was just wondering whether you would like to meet him some time for consultation.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Guest (1): He had done translation of Suśruta-saṁhitā from Sanskrit to English in six volumes, and he has established one Ayurvedic college and other things in Jahmnedabad about thirty years ago. He is a very personal friend of our life member Sanat Bhatai or (indistinct), who are expert in income tax. They are handling our income tax matters. He's a senior partner, about eighty-four years old. So I talked to him today, and he has thought whether you would like to take his advantage of the knowledge of the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, I can take advantage, but no medicine.

Guest (1): No, we can have discussion with him. We can have only consultation, and he is doing out of friendly relation. He does not want money out of you.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We don't care which one." That was a nice system.

Prabhupāda: Very nice system.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unnecessarily people were not being killed.

Prabhupāda: And one fourth, what you have produced, give one fourth to the king. "You come here. See, what I have produced. You take one fourth."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even in Europe that system was there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that was the world system.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they say that that is backwards.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I was studying world history in college, when I read this system, they call it feudal, feudal system, I was very peaceful in my mind. I was very interested how nice everything, orderly... I was impressed with the order. Of course, I did not understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but I could see it was much nicer. This is chaos, the present-day system.

Prabhupāda: There was fighting between two political parties. The cultivator is working on the field. One party soldier and, "Where is the other party's soldiers?" "I have seen, they have gone this way." The soldiers of the king, let them fight. Therefore all the soldiers, they assembled in Kurukṣetra. It had nothing to do with the public. Fighting is going on, killing is going on in that big place. They were peaceful. "You conquer or either Kauravas. We shall pay tax. That's all." Why the public should be drawn?

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Very good. Haridāsa had gone to Poona, and in two days he made four life members, and he was getting a chance to meet some big people, so he asked me to come. It was very nice. I met one young man, about thirty years old. He's one of the nicest men I've met in a long time. He really agreed with everything we were saying, and he's...

Prabhupāda: Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19).

Girirāja: Well, he agreed that the modern civilization is a failure and that people are not happy, that people were more happy before.

Prabhupāda: It is a dangerous civilization. You... You should... (pause) Dangerous civilization that labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. After many, many millions of years one gets the chance of becoming a human being, especially civilized and especially in India. They will bring the same. And Kṛṣṇa personally says that if this chance is missed and a person does not become God realized, then he again returns back to the..., to the... Today I am a prime minister. Tomorrow, if I become a dog... What is this civilization? And they will have to become. Nature's law we cannot avoid. And there is no question, "Why you are touching me? I am prime minister." Who cares for you? You have to take account of your activities, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So human life is so important, and we are simply wasting this valuable life with this temporary adjustment of so-called happiness or distress, big, big plans. Simply bluffing. Indira Gandhi, one daridrāṇaṁ hata(?): "Poverty drive away." Now she is poverty-stricken. "Oh, you want to drive away poverty? Now drive away your own poverty. Where is your position? How you can drive away? You do not dare to come out." Twelve nights. Within one day. Who has made this? This is possible for everyone. Why do they not care, this important knowledge? This knowledge is India's knowledge, and India government is callous. They are not interested in distributing this knowledge. Sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. Just like a person who has got enough knowledge, but he does not give it to others, it is to check the flame. Such a risky civilization... The knowledge is there, and people are kept in darkness. What is this? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So we are the only friends, within this world, of the human society.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And what about municipality?

Girirāja: I met Mr. Rajda, and he had written a very nice letter to the Commissioner, and, the thing is, the typist made many mistakes, so in his office I personally retyped it, but by that time it was too late to meet the Commissioner, so he said to ring up today. But I also met the architect yesterday, and he says that the permission for the Gurukula is ready. It's signed and everything, and he's going to pick it up, I think, tomorrow morning. So in retyping the letter I minimized that. He said that actually those people were helping us, but they just had to, you know, dispose of Matrey's objections first. So the main things we're approaching for is this ten-foot piece of land, which is going to be a constant trouble.

Prabhupāda: They have no use to ask for this ten feet.

Girirāja: No.

Prabhupāda: Neither they have paid for it.

Girirāja: No, they haven't.

Prabhupāda: Then why they are trying to occupy it unnecessarily?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What would they want to do with that ten feet?

Prabhupāda: No aim.

Girirāja: It only has harassment value.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can't plant trees there.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: One lady lives in Vṛndāvana...

Mr. Dwivedi: He has written books also on tantra-śāstra. And I understand most of these ministers, they were going to seek his blessings. I did not know to whom he gave his blessings, but what I know is that most of these people were going to him. I only... One day I asked him. He's very kind towards me, so I go to him and dine with him. So I told him one day, I said, "Mahārāja, you speak to mahatlal (?) people to give some money to our institution." He said, "Mr. Dwivedi, I do not ask any friends or anybody to do anything for me or to anybody." So then I said, "Mahārāja, then I put one question to you if you permit me." He said, "All right, I permit you." So I asked, "Vivekananda has said that 'Service of God... Service of humanity is service of God.' Do you think it is correct or it is incorrect?" He said, "This is correct." Then I said, "We are running educational institution. Whatever good or bad, leave that aside. But in our own little small way we are rendering little service to humanity. And..."

Prabhupāda: But I may interfere. The... In the Bhagavad-gītā is there such statement, that "Service to humanity is service to God"? Is there any statement?

Mr. Dwivedi: Daridrāṇāṁ bhara kaunteya... (?) I think there is somewhere...

Prabhupāda: There is no.

Mr. Dwivedi: But this particular I remember, daridrāṇāṁ bhara kaunteya...

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm? Stryadhīśa. So after getting that shelter, I began to grow. Everything was very precarious condition-vagabond. I was selling some books. I thought that "This boy will be trained up" when I got that place. He invited me to "Come to my loft." It was very big loft. I was holding class, collecting ten dollars. Then he was not paying rent. He gave me the charge of paying rent. So Kṛṣṇa was giving by collecting. It was on the top. Still, people were coming. Great story. Never mind. Now we... From my part, whatever is possible. Now you take care. That is my request. Don't spoil it. Now it is up to you. My, this ailment... I can pass away at any moment. My health is not good. I am old man. It is not surprising. Now you GBC, young boys, all, American, expert, you have got all intelligence, resources, so don't spoil. Let the movements go forward more and more. Now you have got nice places, filled with devotees. Don't be anxious for me. That, Kṛṣṇa will take. And even if I go, where is the harm? Old man. I have given my ideas and direction in my books. People appreciate. I think from my side I have done everything. Is it not? Do you think or not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, you have done everything.

Prabhupāda: Hm? So you are young men, American boys.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Still, we want the whole Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That will be done. Even it is not fulfilled, so there is no harm. But don't send me, in any case, in hospital. Now I am pointing out this. They are useless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no doubt that you know your body a lot better than they could ever know it. You've lived with it for so many years. They just take somebody's body and they make so many...

Discussions -- May 20-22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He recovered from that hernia operation.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, and later on, he did not undergo sur... He thought then doctor... After all, everyone has got sentiment. He thought it that "The doctor has been called to kill me." So he did not undergo the hernia operation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He thought the doctor was paid off to kill him.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause sometimes people were paid off to kill him.

Prabhupāda: So he did not go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually you and your Guru Mahārāja are the greatest enemies of modern civilization in this century, Śrīla Prabhupāda. So many people, materialists...

Prabhupāda: This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission,

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

This is India's culture. The whole world is in darkness, and they are risking their life in the transmigration of one body to another, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-var... The rascals do not know what they are doing. They are simply taking account of few years. He does not know that he's eternal. A few years, a fragment, a pass, passing way, that's all. A passing flash. And bharam udvahato vimūḍhān. This is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. This rascal... Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). This is Vaiṣṇava's concern that "These, what, rascals, they are doing?" That is Vaishnavism. "What these rascals are doing, jumping like monkey, wasting time?" That is Vaishnavism. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. These rascals do not know, driving motorcar, "ghata-ghata-ghata-ghata-ghata-ghata-ghata." He's going to fall down in the sea, but rascal does not know. He's racing with a dog. Dog is also running with full speed, and he's showing, "Oh, I have got this car. This much proud I am."

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They don't mind. "We must have mangoes." Money is very insignificant thing. Gold is the... And as soon as there is enough money, there is debauch, debauchery. Still there are Oriental moral principles. Girls who have become modernized... Otherwise they do not mix with any man. Their husband, that's all. And covered body, they are, very beautiful girl. And those who have become modernized, they are just like European girls. There is no difficulty to become modernized. They have got money. And they tour from one country to another extensively. Formerly for Muhammadans, drinking was the greatest sin. Now it has become... Drinking is strictly prohibited amongst the Muhammadans, according to their religious system. And sex? Before Muhammadan religion was introduced, they used to have sex even with mother. And woman could be purchased as slaves. Marketplace, women were standing for being sold. They would like to be sold. Just like animals. The animals, if somebody purchases, it is, if they are well fed, it is a great fortune for the animals. Just like the dogs here. When they have got a good master, they are fortunate. So it is the fact. If there is civilization, that is this Aryan civilization in India, Vedic civilization. Otherwise, throughout the whole world... These people were within Aryan civilization. Aryan, Iranian, their names are given. Up to Iran, their field(?). Europeans also, Indo-European. Gradually they declined. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is to make them civilized. Paścimera loka saba mūḍha anācāra. They are all fools and misbehaved. Teach them this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They'll be happy. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is our next step, how to make one civilization, Kṛṣṇa conscious. (break) It is very palatable. Not this ordinary medicine, some of them very bitter, some pungent. It is always palatable. So kindly administer this medicine. It doesn't matter whether I survive or die. It doesn't matter. Both ways it is beneficial. Who else?

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Upendra: The reason the original faith was placed in the scientists was because radio, airplanes, tape recorders have been manufactured, and people are impressed by these originally.

Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit? Without radio, people were dying, or with radio they are not living?

Upendra: They say they are living more comfortably.

Prabhupāda: Nonsense comfortably... They have changed the season? Is it comfortable? We have to take this cooling machine. What is the practical benefit? You can say that it is comfortable. That's all right. But that does not mean that you have moved the uncomfortable situation. You are struggling against. That much you can take credit. Real benefit is not there. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Real unhappiness is this, that you are: "Why I am struggling? I don't want death." Actually why I am taking massage and so on, so on? So that I may not die. So where is the scientists' guarantee, "No, you'll not die"? Has he any...? You'll struggle only. That's all. The scientists cannot guarantee, "No, you'll not die." That is real guarantee. "You'll die comfortably." Hm? Die comfortably? Now there is no appetite. Where is the scientist, assuring, "Take"? What actual benefit they have done? They are giving some... Nothing they have given. It is simply bluff. Things without which we could do, such things are there. There were no motorcars. There was horse carriage and bullock carriage. Things were going on. Not that without this horseless motorcar society would have been vanquished. No. There are other alternatives. Rather, they were complicated. As soon as you ride on a car, there is anxiety, especially in your country, so many cars. When you ride on a car, full of anxiety... At any moment there may be accident. It is not comfortable. If you are full of anxiety. Aeroplane may be. At any moment you can die. It is your time only. They're going in good faith: "I shall go there." But before rising to the sky, finished, crash. So many airplane has been... So where is the comfort? As soon as you get on the aeroplane, you are in full anxiety that at any moment there may be crash. Is it not? Then where is comfort? Real comfort is without anxiety. That is real comfort.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In those days it was much purer.

Prabhupāda: Still who cares for Ramakrishna?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But now people are hodgepodge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean to say, in those days people were a little bit more authentic in their, you know...

Prabhupāda: Degraded, most. There is no principles. Formerly there was a standard principle. Then they fall down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But what did the British think of that principle?

Prabhupāda: British gave liberty about our culture and religion. They never interfered. That was their credit. They knew it. If they interfered with their internal affairs, then they will be lost. That was Queen. She guided them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were expert like that.

Prabhupāda: No, they were very good politician. (pause) I can say, in the British period there was no scarcity, and leniency. I recall the way. Didn't require... And when they like... With three hundred rupees they were so happy. Now you calculate that three hundred rupees means ten thousand. So where is that ten thousand rupees?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, only the wealthier...

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Eighth Avenue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifty-fifth Street is midtown, middle of the... But actually that was the right place to be, because there were many young people at that time in the East Village who were searching for something.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think Mukunda selected for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like in San Francisco, that same kind of place we got. So many young people were there, Haight Street, Haight-Ashbury. Now those two places have become ghettoes practically.

Prabhupāda: Dangerous.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, very dangerous. No more young people moving about, no more nice shops. Simply very dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Negroes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people with drugs, taking...

Prabhupāda: Only Negroes. I was going one place to another, underground. Not bad. They used to say "Poor man's transport." Underground?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Subway. But everybody uses it. You'll see even big men use it. Very quick, cheap.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So people were inclined to send their children to gurukula. Now they are inclined to send their children to cinema, this, that... A difficult task, to institute. Loafer class, they should be trained up as śūdras, in carpentry, moving(?)... It doesn't, do not require academic education. Simply make a skill. They'll learn.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're not after the loafer class.

Prabhupāda: No, no. They are not loafer. They are also useful. But they are... Bringing them to the education, university, they are becoming loafer, ironclad. As soon as the low-class men are given education, he thinks, "Now I have become educated, baḍa bāpu. Why shall I work as a carpenter? I must have credits here." And they're bribing in government office, and sixty percent of the clerks-useless. They do not know how to make file, cumberous. Because everyone is going in New Delhi. And all fourth-class men are admitted. I have seen. If you have to find out an old file, you have to wait six months. Because these people are neither for this purpose nor that purpose.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I was thinking, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we should get this gurukula accepted by the government also...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Never do that.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everything small scale.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Small pullers also.

Prabhupāda: Eight days, eight kind of varieties of prasādam, my mother will prepare.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She would take part by preparing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And now... Whether the... Make very nice bannerjee(?). Formerly people were engaged in these things. There was another Mullik family, Rajen..., Raja Rajendra. He was distributing jagannātha-prasāda, daily, two thousand portions.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which Mullik?

Prabhupāda: Raja Rajendranath Mullik. He was also holding very big festival, Ratha-yātrā. So we had the opportunity of seeing once.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You must have been dreaming about Purī Ratha-yātrā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whenever I would find some time, I would consult timetable, "How to go to Purī and Vṛndāvana? What is the fare?" At that time carriage(?) was three rupees. I think it was four rupees, one anna. And Vṛndāvana was six rupees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You had some money saved up?

Prabhupāda: Yes, with my father.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said that your grandmother would give you one gold coin each year.

Prabhupāda: Not gold coin. This copper coin, looking like gold.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mr. Myer: All (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the disaster came, Indira.

Mr. Myer: Actually it is a big danger. All the people were educated. Here Hanumān Akuso(?). They have made family plan. But all the...

Prabhupāda: So why family planning? Because they are rascal. Because in this lower species of life they have no planning. You'll find in the dogs, dozens of dogs, dozens of children. And... So there is no family planning. So how they are being raised? There are many animals. So family planning is different thing, but one thing is that these rascals are misguided. They do not know how to give them... In Bengal there is called śiva gotri bango(?). He was ordered to make a doll of Lord Śiva, and he made a monkey. You see? They are doing like that. They were to make Lord Śiva's doll, but they have a monkey because he does not know. Lokasya ajānataḥ vidvān cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ. The rascals do not know how to make things right. Therefore Vyāsadeva has written so nice literature. But they'll not consult. They'll not take Kṛṣṇa's advice, Vyāsadeva's advice, or our advice. They'll manufacture. And instead of preparing doll of Śiva, they are making a doll of monkey. This is going on. And when the monkey is made, "Oh, we did not like this for..." Russia said that occasional revolution is required. Because the things which have been made, that is imperfect, therefore you require revolution. The things are being given, but if we take the perfect thing, it will be nice. These rascals will not take. This is the difficulty. So if Morarji Desai is in favor of... He's also recommending family planning. So that means he does not know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he has a big target of eight or ten million people.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mr. Myer: That is what has been in Ahmedabad. I spent one night with Mahāṁśa Swami, and they are also digging up the pits. They are making their own fertilizer. Everything is... That's... You see, that's a policy of Ram Mandir's(?) because they want to create more jobs. The village must become very...

Prabhupāda: Let government help us. If they do not help us even with some men to stay here... Indians are not joining. But they are willingly joining, sacrificing everything.

Mr. Myer: No, but it is worked down now. You see, what it is people were not moved so much. I think...

Prabhupāda: And I want simply some of them to stay, not money. Money they are bringing. Whatever money we are spending here, Bombay, they are bringing. They are... I am writing books. They are selling books. I am working them always: "Make double. Make double." And they are bringing money. So we'll not touch even India's money a farthing. Let them stay here. "No, that is not... Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out." That's all.

Mr. Myer: Yes, the posts will change now because it is very good man over here, new business in America and on the Prime Minister.

Prabhupāda: And "Get out. Get out."

Mr. Myer: This "Get out..."

Prabhupāda: And "Get out" means another ten thousand rupees. He has to go out, again come back.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a big harassment.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But everyone can be utilized if you organize it rightly. Three hundred dacoits there means government is very weak.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's just in one little area, Nadia District. Imagine how many dacoits are in all of Bengal now. It will get even worse than it was in 1971. I'm sure, as the Kali-yuga progresses, it will only get worse. And it was very bad. I remember when we were living in Bali Ganj. Every day there was march. People were marching, Communist slogans.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Bhakti-caru was saying that one of the reasons Bengali people are by nature... They're intelligent. They're always intelligent people, not so much physically hard working. So without so much physical work to do and without proper employment, this intelligence now has become misdirected. 'Cause nowhere else in India do the Communists have such a foothold as in Bengal.

Prabhupāda: Intelligent and lazy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Intelligent lazy. I looked on the medicine bottle of this cough medicine that you took.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This cough medicine that you took, that Expectrin? One fourth of it is chloroform, and it says that in some persons it will cause sleepiness, drowsiness, due to the chloroform.

Upendra: He's coming, Prabhupādajī. He's just finishing breakfast. He said he's coming. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...in the world, the most disturbing element.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They say it was, they attacked at night, and they say five?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Five o'clock.

Prabhupāda: There is some mist...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, surely. I mean Bhavānanda Mahārāja doesn't fire a gun unless there's some very, very heavy provocation. It wasn't that some people were standing outside the building going like this. (gesticulates) They were attacking the building. They got into the building. They must have.

Upendra: Before the festival they came with knives, and he never used a gun.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We don't fire guns into crowds...

Devotee (1): They must have injured someone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Something must have happened. Anyway, the police will be investigating thoroughly. I don't know if I should keep... If I find out any more, should I keep talking to you about it, Śrīla...? It seems like it's a depressing subject. Is it right to come to you with this news?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's all right. Should I give you some good news?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, everything he needs to know, he can learn at home.

Prabhupāda: That's what I... Similarly, weaver, that cloth weaving, "kat, kat." The wife is spinning, her husband is weaving, the children is weaving, and combinedly at the end of the day there is a cloth. And people were satisfied with simple necessities. They would not charge very much for the labor. And one nice cloth requires half a pound cotton. Half a pound cotton means maybe one rupee. Another one rupee for the labor. So now they are paying twenty to thirty rupees. Unnecessarily he has to earn this money and pay to the millionaires, and he will keep three dozen motorcars, so another man will be engaged in motorcar industry. In this way time is being wasted without any search after spiritual realization. Time is wasted in such so-called technology advancement. And the real purpose of life, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā, that is missing. And when you present that "This is the most important business of life," they say, "It is brainwashing." And they fight to check us, Communists and others, that "It is useless, God consciousness." (break) (long pause) So... Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Because they are missing the aim of life, they are committing suicide. And this varṇāśrama-dharma was planned in such a way that everyone would be spiritually advanced. The weaver will get, the potter will get, the blacksmith will get, the brāhmaṇa is already there, kṣatriya will get—everyone. For them, lower-class men, demigod worship. At least they are accepting there is some higher authority. Among the blacksmith there is viśvakarma-pūjā. One day they will wash all the instruments of blacksmith. Somehow or other, all are cleaned. And with the fruit, with flower, candana, they'll worship.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They worship the instruments? What is that called?

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. In my maternal uncle's house I was called Nandadulal. Nandu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nandadulal. It's always very nice for the devotees that we celebrate your appearance day just following Janmāṣṭamī. Guru and Kṛṣṇa, both together. Actually, when this book is written properly, I know for a fact that it will actually attract people to join this movement, because I read once a biography of a very bogus person, but I was so much... People become so much impelled or attracted when they hear of a great personality and his activities. It makes them want to link up with such a person. So this book will have preaching effect, no doubt, and it will be filled with philosophy also.

Prabhupāda: How people were happy in those days. A small income, they were satisfied. Nowadays they simply want money. Nobody was unhappy even if he had very small income. He would adjust, and develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These things we have seen. I have seen that even the maidservant, what to speak of gentlemen. Where those days gone? And nobody was hungry. What is this nonsense civilization? Simply want of money and unsatisfied in every step. Especially in the Western countries they're becoming hippie. Why? The training is different.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now we are being given a new training by you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've become happy. Actually, apart from the devotees, there are no happy people in the whole world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Yaśomatīnandana: One hundred acres. It's all very nice level land, and we have planted crops in 150 bighās. That is about...

Prabhupāda: So you give some... We are getting many other land. If your becomes ideal, you can teach them. People are coming for chanting?

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. One gṛhastha is there, and the first week he went there, every night three hundred people were coming.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Yaśomatīnandana: And that was in the middle of the desert. Not desert, in the middle of like jungle, you know.

Prabhupāda: That I want.

Yaśomatīnandana: It's fifteen minutes away from the...

Prabhupāda: We don't want any profit. We don't want any profit. You produce. You eat. You chant. Organize. Don't go outside.

Yaśomatīnandana: Don't go to the cities.

Prabhupāda: No. Be man of character. No illicit sex, no intoxication. Vaiṣṇava. Eat sufficiently, dress sufficiently. Live very comfortably. Whatever profit is there, it should be invested again for books. That's... Because we are investing money, our land... Therefore we are not profited. Beneficiary, you. It is a cooperative society. You produce your needs, live comfortably, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our only interest is that you are taking interest in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, working. Otherwise we don't want to exploit you. That is not... If there is no sufficient, you can... We help you manage it. You manage your own affair. We give you direction. Live happily, chant. This should be... Will not they agree?

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Apad kare viparīta-buddhi.(?)

Bhakti-caru: Some say that it was framed, because that way only got America involved in the war. And American generals knew about that attack on Pearl Harbor.

Prabhupāda: And why they should attack? If they wanted to live there, they're welcome. Why should they attack? Viparīta-buddhi. Many Chinese people were living in America peacefully. They could also live, go. America would have welcomed them. They're very intelligent, artisans. Why attack? That's all right. Naturally it will be September.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Naturally it will be September? (Hindi in background)

Prabhupāda: Yes, because... Who are they? Our men? Talking?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pilgrims. Pilgrims. Villagers who come. They circumambulate.

Prabhupāda: Our men should not talk with them. That's all right. And then what does he say further?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he says, "By September, Śani (Saturn) will enter the eighth house, and it could create further health troubles." September to October does not...

Prabhupāda: But this will not counteract?

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śrutakīrti: They set that exhibit up at the Ratha-yātrā festival. They had one large tent of the "Changing of the Bodies" exhibit, and myself and another devotee went to go see it, but there were so many people in line that we changed our mind. Several hundred people were standing waiting to see that exhibit. It's going to be very famous, "Changing of the Bodies."

Prabhupāda: It is a new thing. Many people come to see in our exhibition... (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...sell whatever they produce, whatever they print. There hasn't been increase much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's staying at about the same pace. The reason is... They could increase, but the reason it's not is that more emphasis is going into increasing the big books. The magazine's keeping pretty much at a steady rate of nearly half a million a month, and they are pushing to increase the big book distribution. Otherwise it would be very easy to increase. In other words, wherever we want to place the emphasis.

Prabhupāda: So books are selling nice? (end)

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is going on?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, a little bit.

Prabhupāda: Switch it off.

Upendra: Decrease. (break)

Jayapatākā: At first some of the devotees were disturbed, but after the Balarāma Appearance and Jhulan Pūrṇimā procession, that gave everyone new encouragement, because they saw how much the local people were appreciative of your work, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Everything will be settled up. Don't be disheartened. So when you left Māyāpur, things were in order? Hm?

Jayapatākā: When I left Māyāpur, everything was in order. Nitāicānd and Sarva-bhāvana Prabhu, as well as Pañca-ratna, are there. Actually one of our workers, he is filing his own case against thirteen Māyāpur villagers, because they had attacked him while he was riding on his bicycle. So that was the only disturbance that had happened in the past month. But he's doing a case against them, and the police said that they would prosecute against them for what they did. So because the people are of such a bad nature, they are continually making such mistakes. This is even getting the authorities against them.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are guṇḍās. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We shall do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And also I took darśana of Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma, and Lord Balarāma's club looks like it will destroy anyone (Prabhupāda chuckles) who dares to interfere with Kṛṣṇa's plan. He has a very big club, silver, all silver. And many people were coming, many pilgrims. Just you were asking me whether there's many people coming as when we were previously here. There are as many. The temple was very much crowded with people having darśana. I could tell that some of the people were pāṇḍās, the guides. They have to bring everyone to this temple, because the people want to see Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Mandir. People were making a lot of expressions of joy to see Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma. They were very surprised to see how beautiful They were appearing. And also Rādhā-Śyāmasundara is very big attraction, because that boy dresses Them very beautifully. All the Deities look very nice today. They look especially happy about this science conference, I think. If we do this in Bombay, also Śrīla Prabhupāda, it will be tremendous success. I think that Kṛṣṇa postponed...

Prabhupāda: Bhakti-caru? (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It might be that Kṛṣṇa postponed the opening of Bombay to get you..., so that you could have enough time to get a little health. It could be.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) He has arranged alone.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I can try.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. You should do it just to please us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Upendra: You can take the shoulders and... (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people were in the temple tonight. The kīrtana party that has come from Māyāpur, they were chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa very sweetly, and the whole temple room was filled with people sitting, listening and waiting for the ārati. Very nice program. Think you'll try to take a little now. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Bhakti-caru can feed you.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'll sit up for a little while? Can I scratch your back?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Would you like Jayādvaita and Pradyumna to come again?

Prabhupāda: Hm. If you can make some resting place, then I can sit down more.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean with pillows in the back? Shall we do just now? Okay.

Prabhupāda: It is giving pain.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're just getting some round pillows from upstairs. That will be very good. They'll be here in a minute, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The importance of Bhaktivedanta Institute is there, not that theory molecule. Come on. We are challenging. Discuss like scientist, not like sentimentalists.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? It seems like we should... Next time we have a conference here, it should be done in the proper hall.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got enough place.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some people were thinking that Vṛndāvana is not a good place for building that hall, but...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no immediate necessity. We have got already nice building.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we have no hall in that building. There's no... The place where they held the meeting last time is now going to become the restaurant.

Prabhupāda: Let it become.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there won't be any place to have any future meetings. There's no big room.

Prabhupāda: That we shall have in..., conveniently, not immediately. Immediately there is Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. (Hindi) And the mayor, ex-mayor, has given telegram. Where is that telegram? This is a telegram... It says, "Pray God, Kṛṣṇa, to give you long life to spread Indian culture in every nook and corner of the universe. Signed Raji K. Ganatra, ex-mayor of Bombay." He's very convinced, Śrīla Prabhupāda, about Your Divine Grace and this movement, because he traveled around the world and stayed as a guest at our temples, and he was amazed to see how this Indian culture had actually been transplanted and taken root in all of these countries all over the world. He could not believe it. He was so amazed and impressed. He said that he's seen genuinely that this Indian culture has been taken up in true spirit.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They recognized the devotees?

Girirāja: Yes. And they're not envious. It seems that in India many of the people are a little envious of us, but everywhere we went in Nepal, it seemed that the people were very happy to see us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Have you ever been there, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'd like to go sometime?

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. We'll include that on our world parikrama.

Girirāja: Actually, the relation of the Queen's mother whom we met, she was also asking about people coming who could give good lectures and enthuse everyone. So I said that you yourself would probably like to come when you're feeling better. So she was really wild about that idea. I'm sure that they would give you a real royal welcome.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good field it sounds like, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Trivikrama: What about the language? Is there problem with language?

Girirāja: No. The educated people speak English. In all the schools they teach English, so all the youngsters speak English in Kathmandu. And then most people in Kathmandu, even if they don't speak English, they speak Hindi. And there are just a few who only speak Nepali. But Prabhaviṣṇu has arranged for The Perfection of Yoga to be translated into Nepali.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He sounds like he's doing very good, Prabhaviṣṇu.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...Ratha-yātrā ceremony.

Gaura-govinda: At Ratha-yātrā Jagannātha came very late for Pāṇḍu-vijaya. It was first time announced that it would take place at nine, but actually it took place at four p.m.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gaura-govinda: We heard that this year that new body... Jagannātha has a new body, so it was heard that that was not proper time. These pāṇḍās and some people were interested with this business purpose. They did so, and also these pāṇḍās were doing some nonsense inside the temple, so Jagannātha was very much displeased, so it took so much time.

Prabhupāda: The pāṇḍās untimely changed the body?

Gaura-govinda: Untimely they changed. And it was the custom that King Purī-rāja, the king of Purī, would do cara-paraha,(?) this cleaning. But they ill-treated the Purī-rāja. There was some incident previously. So Purī-rāja was not present at that time. He left Purī, and he was somewhere else. So cara-paraha(?) was being done by this baḍa pāṇḍā, pūjā-pāṇḍā. Such mismanagement was there.

Prabhupāda: Who was baḍa pāṇḍā?

Gaura-govinda: There was one baḍa pāṇḍā. I don't know his name. One who does offerings.(?) He is chief of those pāṇḍās. And then, when this pulling of car... That took place just a few minutes before sunset. It was the custom that as soon as the sun set, there will be no pulling. Only Balarāma's car was pulled a few yards, dashed against a (indistinct), and four of the wheels were broken. So then it stopped. For two days there was no pulling unless it is repaired. Then for two days car stopped there. So on the third day it was pulled. The cars were pulled to the Guṇḍicā. Such things happened this year. And we were the only party who chanted before ratha from ten to four.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: We were noticing now the headline in America in the Newsweek or some magazine was that America is going right. Now people are protesting against abortion. They are demanding that leaders be moralistic. It is a whole trend now. And so we see that just because Your Divine Grace has begun book distribution and preaching in the West, in America, that now the people, they're becoming more... Qualities of goodness are automatically coming about just because of your preaching.

Devotee (1): At one big fair, Prabhupāda, we were distributing your books, and after the fair was over so many people were coming up. So we surrounded the truck with stacks of books and were passing them out. And pretty soon after all the books were gone the people started rocking the truck. They were surrounding it, asking for one of your books. They were demanding that they have one of your books.

Jayapatākā: The kavirāja has come.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Kavirāja: (Hindi conversations)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How much urine yesterday?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yesterday was 475.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thousand was liquid taken in.

Bhakti-caru: Yes, 1,000.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One kilo.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)