Prabhupāda: Arjuna married Draupadī. You know the condition? Her father made condition: there was a fish on the ceiling and one wheel was circling. So one has to pierce the eyes of the fish through the hole of the circle. And he cannot see directly. He has to see down. There is a reflection in waterpot. In this way, he had to pierce. (laughs) "In this way, he has to fix, and in one stroke the eye will be pierced. One who is successful, my daughter is for him." So nobody could, except only Arjuna. He was such expert bowman that he... Similarly, Lord Rāmacandra also made... In the palace there was a big bow. It was all hardened, made of iron. So long standing it was there. So one day, Sītā was sweeping the floor, and with her left hand she pushed the bow. It was very heavy. Nobody could... It was very weighty, heavy. And with her left hand she pushed it. So her father said, "Oh, this is wonderful girl. She can lift this. Nobody can lift it and with her left hand she pushed it? Oh, then my son-in-law will be he who can break this." (laughter) So he made a challenge that anyone, any prince, who will come and break this bow, he'll be my son-in-law. So it was only possible by Rāmacandra, Lord Rāmacandra. So these challenges were made amongst the kṣatriyas. Otherwise, generally, the parents would select. We were married. Whatever our parents selected, we accepted. I did not like my wife, (laughs) but gradually, I was accustomed. I was obliged to like. That's all. (laughs) That is the Indian system. You like or not like, you have to accept it. That's all.
Palace (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They are sincere, sincerely seeking after. Their material business is finished because they have enjoyed enough of material things. Now there is spiritual inquiry. That is natural. When our material necessities are complete, we enjoy, then next stage is spiritual hankering. And that is explained in the Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. After finishing karma-kāṇḍīya life... Karma-kāṇḍīya life means you do pious activities and enjoy life. That is called karma-kāṇḍīya. So... But the fact is that even you get your birth in a very rich family, you cannot avoid the sufferings of this material nature. Just like yesterday we had an interview with Holkar(?), His Highness Holkar, the old gentleman. So he was a king. He has got very beautiful wife, very beautiful family, very palatial building, but he is not happy, we saw. So the foolish people, they do not know that in this material life there is no happiness. They hanker after these palatial buildings, the motor cars, the bank balance, and so on, so on. Therefore those who have enjoyed all these things but have not become happy, there is another inquiry: "How to become happy?" (break) ...say America, they have enjoyed material life. Their children have enjoyed material life to the fullest extent but they are not happy. Therefore they have come to this spiritual life.
Haṁsadūta: The government house?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. It is better than Buckingham Palace, such a big house.
Haṁsadūta: Oh, the governor's house. The governor's house?
Prabhupāda: Yes, governor's house.
Haṁsadūta: It's surrounded just like a...
Prabhupāda: A big garden. Yes. That was viceroy's house. Now it is dilapidated. Otherwise, formerly it was very, very nice. Huge palace in India. Lord Collier's policy was to bring one of the princes from England and make him king of India.
Haṁsadūta: King of India.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was his policy. He favored that policy, that Indian people are in favor of monarchy. So introduce this system: one of the royal family's son should come and become king of India. That was good suggestion. If Britishers would have ruled India for the interest of India, making one king from the royal family, it would have been great success. That policy of Lord Collier was very nice.
Revatīnandana: So he went to the spiritual sky?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then what is the use of making friendship with Kṛṣṇa if you cannot do so? There was a rich man in Calcutta, Motilal Sill. He was so rich that... Every man has different circle in younger days. So he would see. If any of his friends did not possess a house in Calcutta, he would purchase house. He said that, "If people say, 'Oh, you are friend of Motilal Sill. You have no your own house?' what people will say about me? He must have his own house." He purchased house for him. He was very big man. And there are many incidences also like, a very noble story. Actually it was not long ago, say about hundred years ago. He would not see that any one of his associates, friends, does not possess a house in Calcutta. Another Kṛṣṇa's friend, Sudama also. (chuckles) He could not recognize his own place, how it had happened, palatial buildings, garden. In Kṛṣṇa, you have not read Sudama? Give me water.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. We shall turn into temple.
Revatīnandana: Immediately.
Prabhupāda: Immediately. (laughter) We are searching after. If you can give, it will be very much...
Sister Mary: To put beautiful things in it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Wherever we shall go, we cannot go without God. So if we get a palatial house, immediately make a very gorgeous, nice temple, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance. That's all. We can utilize anything. Because everything is belonging to God. So as soon as we get something, we utilize it for God. That is our philosophy.
Sister Mary: Who controls, if one of the members becomes grasping, wants things for himself...?
Prabhupāda: No, what... We are therefore teaching. We are therefore teaching. Members are gradually learning how to sacrifice for God. So when he is completely trained up, he knows that nothing belongs to Him. Everything belongs to God. Therefore, whatever he possesses, it must be utilized for God's purposes. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. We take it for granted, and that is a fact. Everything belongs to God. God, whatever God has given me for my use, so I must use it, first of all expressing my gratitude to God, "O God, You are so kind that You have given me this. So first of all you taste it. Then I'll eat." This is our philosophy.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Pastimes.
Bob: Pastimes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like, when you speak of king, it means king's government, king's palace, king's queen, king's son, secretaries, military strength, everything. Is it not?
Bob: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, Kṛṣṇa being the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as soon as we think of Kṛṣṇa (it) means all energies of Kṛṣṇa. That is complete by saying "Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa." Rādhā represents all the energy of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. So when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, the living entities are also included. Because the living entities are energies, different energies of Kṛṣṇa, superior energy. So when this energy is not serving the energetic, that means material existence. The whole world is not serving Kṛṣṇa. They are serving Kṛṣṇa in a different way. they are serving Kṛṣṇa indirectly. Just like disobedient citizens, they serve the government indirectly. They have come to the prison house on account of their disobedience of the laws of the state. So in the prison house they're forced to obey the laws of the state. Similarly, all the living entities here, they're godless. Either by ignorance or by his will, he doesn't like to accept the supremacy of God. Demonic. So we are trying to bring them in their original condition. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā, anitya soṁsāre moha janamiyā jībake karaye gādhā. Jaḍa-vidyā, this material advancement, jaḍa vidyā, they are simply stumbling blocks for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The more one is enamored by this so-called material advancement, the more he is disqualified to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because time we have got limited. If we waste our time for so-called material advantages, then we spoil our time. We cannot utilize the time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is the necessity of human life. Therefore, in the history of India there is opulence, but that opulence is of different kind. By nature they used to enjoy life—enough jewels, enough gold, enough silk, enough food, enough metals. You see? By natural product. They could find where there is a big hill of gold only. These are there. And actually gold is found in some mine within the material arrangement. Why there should not be any hill of gold? As there are hills of stone, and marble, why not gold? You do not know. Your utensils are only plastic. It is worth nothing. So that was their material advancement. Gold, silver, jewels, corals, sapphire, diamond. Just see Kṛṣṇa's palace described. Not these rascal chairs, cushions, but with ivory, gold. And the cushion is as soft as the foam of milk. (laughter) These things are description there. And the rooms are bedecked with jewels. You don't require this electric light at night. And outside these parijāta flowers. You have read all this?
Bhānu: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Then where is your advancement? You supply everyone palatial building like this. Why they are living in the matchboxes? Why they are eating cats and dogs? One thing, if you don't believe in God, then you give them. But you cannot give. Then who has given them? Nobody wants to live in the matchbox. Why he is living in the matchbox and you are living in a nice house? Is it all a chance? He is not struggling? He is not making his plan that "I shall also live." Just like the Communists. But he could not. We went to Moscow. They have no nice building made by the Communist people. All big, big, old buildings that is made, constructed by Czar. Not a single building I saw which was constructed by the Communist government.
Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa planet is also like lotus.
Yadurāṇī: Jaya, so, so it has...
Prabhupāda: Just like here in this material world the Brahmā's planet is the ultimate. That is also like mat..., lotus flower, and in the spiritual world the ultimate planet is Kṛṣṇa-loka.
Yadurāṇī: So you would have palaces and garden scenes and Lord Brahmā perhaps on his throne?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu (Bs. 5.29). There are palaces, trees, everything. They are not voids. The voidist cannot understand what is there.
Devotee (7): And Śrīla Prabhupāda, can we paint more informal portraits...
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee (7): ...of yourself and the other ācāryas to send to the temples? Or should we...
Yadurāṇī: Informal.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Yadurāṇī: Informal. That is, Puṣkara painted a picture of you sitting in a very formal position.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: For example, they will say that in early history people used to live in the caves and they used to wear skins.
Prabhupāda: That is your rascal's conception. They used to live in palaces. You are rascal; you do not know the history.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that they used to live..., the history, because they don't have the complete information.
Prabhupāda: No, you are rascal, you have rascal's history. We are not rascal; we have got another history. Why shall I accept your history? You are rascal. You be satisfied with the history that your great grandfather and his father used to live in the cave. But we don't accept. Our forefather used to live in palace. Sixteen thousand palaces, Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) So you rascal, you live with your own history. Why you force your rascaldom history upon us? We are not going to accept. We get history from five thousand years ago. You have no history beyond three thousand years. But we give the shortest history, five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa. And how much intelligent from historical point of view Kṛṣṇa was. We can understand from His instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. It is not that because we are Kṛṣṇaites we are canvassing. The whole world is reading Bhagavad-gītā. Why, unless there is intelligence? All scholars, all religionists, all philosophers, they are giving attention to Bhagavad-gītā. So how you can say Kṛṣṇa was living in the cave? Your forefather might be living in a cave, but our forefather did not live in a cave but palaces. Your forefather is a monkey, according to that history.
Jayatīrtha: So as their science progressed, then they progressed and were able to utilize nature.
Prabhupāda: So what is that progress? The caves are still there, somebody is living here. Then where is the progress? As the caves are still there and somebody is living here and skyscrapers, they are also, similarly, when you (indistinct) the cave (indistinct), there were palaces(?) but we could not see them. Both things are existing, but you studied only one side. Here is your history, see. Kṛṣṇa has sixteen thousand palaces and there was no need of light. Jewels, all jewels. Everything is existing side by side.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: And He used to come here for herding the cows?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): But He did not live here.
Śyāmasundara: Was there any palace here?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: Was there any palace here of His parents?
Prabhupāda: They say there is a (indistinct) (Hindi) Huh? (break)
Śyāmasundara: Everyone wants some prasāda.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...some small feast.
Indian: (Hindi)
Śyāmasundara: Sarasvatī.
Devotees: Dallas.
Prabhupāda: Dallas. Dallas we have got very nice temple. Detroit. I thought that our temple, Los Angeles temple, is the best. But this year I went to Dallas. Oh, it is better than Los Angeles. (laughter) It is so nice. Now we are trying to purchase the Berkshire palace in England. Yes. That was being occupied by the Duke of Windsor. I don't think whether I have got, received one letter from. No. So the price is 500,000 dollars.
Dr. Kapoor: 500,000 dollars?
Prabhupāda: Yes. $500,000 means five crores according to Indian rate.
Dr. Kapoor: (laughing) Fabulous.
Prabhupāda: So I had no money, (laughter). But one nice boy—his name is known all over the world, George Harrison—he has promised to give me loan.
Dr. Kapoor: Modern conception of speed is within the sphere of time. But our journey transcends time. Naturally it has to be faster than any journey you can imagine.
Prabhupāda: No. We speak from the śāstra. There is no question of imagination. We speak from śāstra. So we have explained, tried to explain these things in Easy Journey to Other Planets. And people are taking it very nicely. It is sold very quickly, very quickly. (break) I would like to see you that you are living in palaces.
Yaśodānandana: We want to put Kṛṣṇa in palace.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is giving you the opportunity, you Americans. Now you are taking Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be the most opulent nation of the world. Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa both. You have got Lakṣmī, but if you take Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣmī will be permanent. Lakṣmī will not go. And if you reject Nārāyaṇa, then Lakṣmī will stay for some time. That is Cañcalā. Her name is Cañcalā. The British empire has failed, the Roman Empire has failed, the so many empires, the Mogul empire has failed, because they wanted Lakṣmī, not Nārāyaṇa. If you take Nārāyaṇa, your Lakṣmī will stay. Just try to convince your countrymen, just like President Nixon. It is Kṛṣṇa's desire that I was dictated to go to America, because Kṛṣṇa wants that you should take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa wants. So you have taken. Now spread. It will be grand success. And there are so many candidates, very nice. All right, go on, take... (end)
Prabhupāda: Huh? Oh, about that typing. (break) How we have secured that house in London.
Gurudāsa: Oh, jaya! All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Prabhupāda: Berkshire Palace.
Devotee (1): Berkshire Palace, (indistinct).
Gurudāsa: Duke of Windsor's castle(?).
Devotee (1): He's the king there, right? The queen's husband.
Prabhupāda: He was to be the king, but he rejected for that one common girl. So the ministry asked him that "You have to give up this girl or you have to give up your throne." So he preferred to give up his throne. And the present queen's father, his second brother, he was made king, King George VI. Otherwise, this Duke of Windsor... When he refused to become the king, he became the Duke of Windsor and he was given this Berkshire Palace.
Gurudāsa: He also is the one who has the Windsor Palace?
Prabhupāda: No, Windsor Palace is the queen's. That is some seasonal residence. This Buckingham Palace is office. Actually for residential palace, the Windsor Palace. Windsor Palace?
Gurudāsa: Windsor, yes.
Prabhupāda: That Palace we see in passing.
Gurudāsa: Yes, large palace.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gurudāsa: Windsor.
Prabhupāda: Berkshire Palace is also nearby.
Gurudāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It is nearer to John's Tittenhurst. What is that?
Gurudāsa: Tittenhurst Park.
Prabhupāda: Tittenhurst Park. (To Sarasvatī:) Come on, come on. Come on. So Sarasvatī-devī, we have got good news: your father is coming tomorrow. It is all right? Śyāmasundara is coming tomorrow. You like?
Gurudāsa: She says she has four fathers and mothers.
Prabhupāda: Four fathers?
Gurudāsa: And mothers.
Gurudāsa: I will be going today if he sends a car. Or if not, I think I will go tomorrow. But that means I cannot go to Delhi. But I don't think... I think Manasvi and Mr. Sarkar, the engineer, can handle this deal. It's just to see if they can give another allotment.
Prabhupāda: Not that everywhere you have to go. You go to the important business.
Gurudāsa: So which do you think is more important—this deal or the palace? I think the palace.
Prabhupāda: Anyone can purchase. But to get the palace it requires great tactful dealing.
Gurudāsa: Subala Mahārāja and I are going to Mathurā today to find out the position what they have done in relationship to this sanction, written sanction.
Prabhupāda: From Mathurā, then go to Bharatpur.
Gurudāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: From Mathurā, Bharatpur is near.
Gurudāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...picture?
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Similar Deity we'll have in this London Berkshire Palace.
Indian man: They don't look like the Deities, they look like boy and girl.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kiśora-Kiśorī. (break)
Indian man: (indistinct) get a closer look at it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very nice. People come to see the Deities in Bombay.
Indian man: You brought them from Jaipur?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very nice. And especially at New Vrindaban, oh, Kṛṣṇa is so attractive.
Indian man: But they're all from Jaipur. Jaipur is the place.
Devotee (3): We are just packing for sending one set of Jaipur... (break)
Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana also you can get.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pañcadraviḍa: In your lectures you emphasized two aspects must be there, jñāna and renunciation. So some knowledge is there, but that part of the difficulty is that with most of the devotees in every temple in India, is that they have not renounced these dirty things completely. They still are attached to sense gratification even on gross levels. So whether a sannyāsī or anybody interferes with their sense gratification, they tend to not oblige because they are attached to doing things the way they want. And they think because they are in a foreign country here, a long way from America where the standards are very rigid, that they can do any manner of nonsense and nobody will check them. And if you try to correct them, then they will only do it behind your back. We have seen this, with the sweet shops, with rising early, anything that interferes with them doing as, exactly as they please, they don't want to oblige. And this is in Calcutta, this is in Bombay, and it's happening here in Vṛndāvana. It's not something that's isolated here to the palace, but the devotees all over, they are just behaving on the level of sense gratification, and that's why there is so much rajas guṇa in the temples. So much rajas guṇa.
Prabhupāda: This is a fact. So how to correct it. If you do not correct yourself, how you can correct?
Pañcadraviḍa: Well we, many of us have tried to correct ourself, and as a result we have been accused of being separatist, simply because we don't want to go along with the nonsense that everybody else is doing, but we want to maintain some standard for ourself, of reading and chanting. Because we don't want to sit down and talk nonsense or do nonsense, and if you try to stop them they will not stop. So why we should fall down to that level? So we behave as separatist. We go into our room and we'll read, or we'll go into our room and chant, or we'll try and keep ourself clean, or try and do these things, and that is separatism because it's not falling into the level of māyā that's going on everywhere else in the temple, engaging in party politics and all these other things. That is, that is what I feel about it. Most of the devotees, they seem out of place.
Prabhupāda: Whatever is done is done. Now, you try to correct others by behaving yourself. Otherwise, there is no need of keeping so many men. We have attempted in Vṛndāvana. A few men may remain here. That's all. Otherwise, it will be not very nice to attract when people are attracted by seeing your behavior. They are seeing that, "Oh, Europeans and Americans, they have got such nice Vaiṣṇavas." They are attracted on that point. But if we are not to the standard point, they will immediately accuse, "Oh, they are..." So that should be corrected. The same principle, āpani ācari prabhu jīvere, we should behave ourselves nicely, then teach others. Then it will be (indistinct). Another, this is general principle, now we have discussed, now we try to follow. Another thing that Keśi-ghāṭa affair. Shall we make further progress? I acquired that property (indistinct). What is your opinion? From the circumstances as that is now, because any temple, it must be nicely, very nicely managed, otherwise you cannot attract. Our Los Angeles temple we want to attract people. So it is so nicely managed, very nicely managed. You have seen. So unless, that means there must be sufficient bank balance. Such a big temple.
Prabhupāda: Simply by becoming Sanskrit scholar or Latin scholar, it is not sufficient. He must be God-realized, purified. Then it is possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ: (Brs. 1.2.234) "By your these blunt senses it is not possible to understand what is God, what is His form, what is His name, what is His quality, what is His kingdom, what is His paraphernalia." These things are to be understood. God means... Just like when we speak of "king." King does not mean alone. King means he has got his queen, he has got his kingdom, he has got his secretary, he has got his minister, he has got his palace, he has... so many things, king, royal. When we speak of Queen, we immediately remember the Buckingham Palace, his (her) bodyguards and so many, so many other things. Similarly, God means He has got His entourage also, everything. He's not alone. To understand God means to understand everything of God—His name, His fame, His līlā, His pastimes. So nāmādi. With all these blunt senses, how can we... We cannot understand even the Personality of Godhead, what to speak of other things? "God is a person:"—it is a very difficult subject matter for ordinary man to take it, very difficult subject. That is stated in the... Even the demigods they cannot understand. That is... Because he's thinking materially that "This cosmic manifestation, then creation, is so big, and it is created by a person. How it is possible?" But... Because they do not know what is that person. Simply by the word "person," he is afraid: "Oh, oh, oh, oh."
Prabhupāda: But we see everything has got Kṛṣṇa connection. Therefore we utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. Just like you're talking about Kṛṣṇa, it is being recorded. So it is useful for Kṛṣṇa's service. Why should I give it up? Because the airplane is there, therefore my preaching has been easier. Every year I'm wandering all over the world, twice, thrice. Because if you use airplane. So why shall I give it up? It is giving me facility to preach my Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, why shall I give it up? It is mithyā. Just like the Jains, they do not ride on car, but if by going in a car I can go and preach, very swiftly, and come back again, why shall I give up this car? So our philosophy is not like that. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. It is yukta-vairāgya. We have no attachment for all these things. We are sitting in this palatial building, that's all right. But you can talk things under the tree. But if I sit down underneath a tree nobody will come to me. (everyone laughs) So why shall I do that? This is our philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Just like George Harrison has given us a house in London, Letchmore Heath. It is worth 220,000 pounds.
Haṁsadūta: Over a half million dollars.
Professor: Ācchā.
Prabhupāda: So you can come sometimes. No you can stay there. It is very nice place. We have 17 acres of land, open, with a lake. It is a royal palace.
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are installing our Deity next 21st. So if you have time, I invite you. It is not far, London.
Professor: London is not far. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Professor: The 21st of September?
Prabhupāda: Twenty-first of August.
Professor: Oh, I see.
Yogeśvara: In a few days.
Professor: It's a big feast.
Prabhupāda: So you are Sanskrit scholar. You can join with this movement and help us.
Prabhupāda: That's...
Śyāmasundara: "...children..."
Prabhupāda: ...all right. The family will live on not forever. They'll live also, say, for few days. Just we go sometimes in... Just like in England, the castles are there, very old castle, thousand years, two thousand... Even this Westminster Abbey and palace, but which king has lived for there permanently? And now, if you know more, if the king has, by his work, become something else. Not necessarily he'll become a king in that house. He may become a dog there. This science they do not know. And they are proud of their education, culture. Suppose we are constructing the Vṛndāvana temple or Bombay temple. It is also certain we shall not live, but our attempt to construct that temple will be recorded in Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Because he has spent his energy for My service." That will be our gain. Others, they, whatever they are working... Ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ. Find out this verse. Ko vā. Ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ. This is in Bhāgavata.
Yaśomatīnandana: You just discover it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No discovery. You do not know, arrangement. This is already there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Practically they are fighting against the laws of nature, but sometimes they find pleasure in doing this.
Prabhupāda: That is childish. Just like they build with the sand palatial building, the children, and they take pleasure in it. That's all. That is children's pleasure. That is not sane man's pleasure. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Māyā-sukhāya. This pleasure is māyā, and they are making humbug. Therefore they are vimūḍhān, vimūḍhān, all foolish men. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). The materialists, they have created a standard of happiness. That is māyā. That is not happiness. But for that māyā happiness, false happiness, they have beget a gorgeous arrangement. That's all. Therefore they are vimūḍhān. They are so vimūḍhān, so foolish. Now suppose they have created this nice comfortable civilization, but they have not created the situation that they will be able to enjoy it. At any moment they will be kicked out, "Get out! Finished. All finished." So where is that guarantee that you will be able to enjoy this?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why the scientists are saying that God didn't give us everything so that we can make very happy.
Prabhupāda: Topless, bottomless. That is going on. It is a regular policy that girls may remain unmarried, and the drunkards and the meat-eaters may take advantage of the prostitution. This is the policy. They have no sympathy. So many hundreds and thousands of innocent girls, they're like children. And they're exposed to prostitution. They have no shelter. Now these girls who are with us, they're feeling some shelter, you see? That we are giving some shelter. Everything should be reformed, political, social, and be, you American nation—you're favored nation, that I am always speaking; you should utilize the favor of God and be yourself perfect—and be leader of the whole world. Anyone who is not believer in God, he should be punished. Because he's animal. He is animal, and he is posing himself as human being. Cheater. Human life is meant for tapasya, for understanding God. That is human life. This dog's life, cat's life, this is not human life. If you become a very powerful tiger, is that human life? They're thinking like that. "If I become as strong as a tiger, then there we are perfect nation." Then what is the use of tiger? It is simply kill only. What other intelligence he has got? So in your country there are so many things to be done. I give you the idea, now you take the leaders. (break) Rascal. Sentimental. Be yourself leader. (break) ...you give up all this material advancement. But there must be Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it is waste of time. Live very comfortably, gentlemanly. Kṛṣṇa never says that "You live like wretched urchins." Kṛṣṇa never says that. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati duḥkha-hā. And this was practically introduced by my Guru Mahārāja, that living in palatial building and riding on first-class cars, one can become the best devotee. Not that one has to live underneath a tree, imitating Rūpa Gosvāmī. That is not possible in this age.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Candanācārya: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You were also given the equal chance. Prabhupāda, my Guru Mahārāja, sat down at Māyāpur. But you were given the place of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's birth place. What, what you have done? It is still jungle. And what is Māyāpur there? All Americans are building a palatial building. So simply by criticizing, one does not become a very confidential devotee. Where is the action? What he has done? That is required. Phalena paricīyate. (break) ...everything. Unless Kṛṣṇa gives opportunity, nobody can serve Kṛṣṇa also. But he gives opportunity to the proper person. That is everywhere. If you want to become manager of a firm, the proprietor of the firm will see whether you are able to do that. Then he will give the chance. "Yes." This is reciprocal. Just like this śloka we were studying today. Kṛṣṇa becomes sārathi. Does Kṛṣṇa go to become sārathi of a rascal and fool? He becomes sārathi of Arjuna. That has to be seen. And without any qualification: "Kṛṣṇa, become my sārathi." Kṛṣṇa's not so easy. First of all qualify. First deserve, then desire. First deserve, then desire.
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: So how Caitanya Mahāprabhu treated them equally or gave better position to Rāmānanda Rāya than Rūpa Gosvāmī? This question was raised—not only now—when our Guru Mahārāja started Gauḍīya Maṭha. So he was allowing the sannyāsīs to live in palatial building and go in car for preaching work. So many such persons questioned, "How is that, sannyāsīs are going in car, living in palatial building?" So our Guru Mahārāja replied that "A devotee should be offered the best comfort of life. And if he would not have introduced this comfortable life, at the same time, to become pure devotee, then these devotees from Western countries will, would never come. They would never agree to sit down under the tree and, imitating Rūpa Gosvāmī... That is not possible." Do you understand or not?
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is your answer?
Guest (2): I answered that...
Prabhupāda: No, no. You answer me. I am talking with you.
Dr. Patel: For himself. Arjuna is creating trouble for himself.
Prabhupāda: No, he is creating trouble for himself because the rascals will represent that "I am incarnation of God." Therefore Arjuna is asking him, "Now show me your virāṭ-rūpa." So these rascals, bewildered by these so-called gods, they should ask, "Show me your virāṭ-rūpa. Then I shall accept you." That is the process. Not that "I am incarnation of God." How you become incarnation? Just lift one hill. Or show me virāṭ-rūpa. Or show me that you have sixteen thousand wives and you are maintaining them in sixteen thousand palaces. Then you call yourself that "I am incarnation of Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise, you rascal, I cannot believe you. For them. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa... He knows what is Kṛṣṇa, but because in future some rascal will come and will say that "I am incarnation of God," therefore it is a warning that before accepting one rascal as incarnation, you ask him to show virāṭ-rūpa.
Girirāja: "...Vasudeva attempted to take His son from the delivery room, and exactly at that time, a daughter was born of Nanda and Yaśodā. She was Yogamāyā, the internal potency of the Lord. By the influence of His internal potency, Yogamāyā, all the residents of Kaṁsa's palace, especially the doorkeepers, were overwhelmed with deep sleep and all the palace doors opened although they were barred and shackled with iron chains. The night was very dark, but as soon as Vasudeva took Kṛṣṇa on His lap and went out, he could see everything just as in the sunlight." (break)
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) ...he worships like anything. Then he... We have an assembly, and they passed by majority vote that I should refrain from coming here, but I somehow or other came.
Prabhupāda: But I saw and offer my obeisances to your motorcar. (laughter) I was thinking that "Dr. Patel's representative, the car is here."
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) Because we are trained to all the accredited saints of India, to whatever opinion...
Prabhupāda: Our business is to point out who is not a saint.
Dr. Patel: māyā.
Prabhupāda: No, no, these wonderful scientific advancement, they were done by the demons. So they are demons. These so-called scientist, they re all demons.
Dr. Patel: Palace of Pāṇḍavas were constructed by māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: So they were all engineers.
Prabhupāda: No, no, engineer. Engineer are also demons, but he is no longer demon. Now doctors are demon. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...land only for this beach.
Dr. Patel: But you are going away.
Prabhupāda: No, I am... (Dr. Patel laughs) I am here. (break) Very soon. (break) Living entities are there in the sand. How do they say there is no life in the moon? I cannot understand. What they are eating within the sand?
Dhanañjaya: So everyone in the material world is caught up with the intelligence generated by the brain.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they are bahir-artha-māninaḥ, they are thinking that this is all. A group of men is coming, and they are exploiting the resources, material world. Just like this building. It is nothing but exploiting the resources. Making brick from the earth or stone or iron. And they pile up. Just like the children goes to the beach, they pile up the sand, and they imagine that somebody is making big palace, somebody is...
Dhanañjaya: Big castle.
Prabhupāda: Big castle. And at a time they left. In the Roman, the... Formerly, the Romans, they also came. They also constructed big, big buildings. Now they are rotting, and another generation, they also are creating the same thing. But exactly like the children, after playing, they are going. Nobody knows where they have gone. Similarly, these rascals, they are coming. They have got the human intelligence. Simply spoiling that intelligence in amassing the external resources of material nature, and they leave the platform, and again go away and take the birth of some other form of life. Everything forgotten just like dream. This is going on. They cannot understand it has no value.
Prabhupāda: So where is equal rights? Even in Russia, there is managerial class and laborer class. Where are equal rights? Why there are managers? Yes. I have seen it. The managerial class and the laborer class. So where is equality? Why the managerial class? You know that? There must be required. The old women, they are sweeping the street. Why not Mr. Lenin come and sweep the street? Why he is sitting in a big palace and the poor woman has been engaged to sweep the street? Where is equality? What advancement they have made? We are following opiate. They are following opiate, Lenin's rascal's philosophy. That's all. That is also opiate. But where is equality? That is also opiate. You are advocating equality, but where there is a man manager and another man is working. So why you are accepting this nonsense philosophy being opiated by rascal Lenin?
Haihaya: They measure everything by the type of work.
Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. If I become manager, I will pay for that. Suppose there is work as a... Would you like to work sweep the street or become manager? What shall I say? "No, no, I shall become manager." Why this mentality? Why he does not accept, "Yes, I shall sweep"?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: In order to chant the holy name purely, is it necessary to have feelings of separation?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Provided he has got the taste for chanting. Otherwise he'll sleep. That's all. (pause) These are all buildings for museum?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes, and some small parts are used for administrative offices, the government and police. This used to be a king's palace.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Paramahaṁsa: This used to be the king's palace, of France.
French Devotee: (indistinct)
Paramahaṁsa: Yes, this was the palace before they built the big palace in Versailles. Versailles is like a demigod's planet. It's the most wonderful building in all of France. Everything in gold, and wonderful paintings. Very, very big, and wonderful gardens and rivers. The king of France was very intelligent. In order to keep the nobles from revolting against him, he invited them all to his palace to enjoy with him. And he gave them wonderful feasts and a lot of sex life, and wonderful music. And like this, they never revolted during his time. This was Louis the Fourteenth.
French Devotee: He was called the sun king.
Professor La Combe: I remember that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the Bhāgavata.
Professor La Combe: I could not recognize from this...
Prabhupāda: So immediately she brought from Dvārakā-dhāma palace direct to the palace of Uṣā. What is called, the asura, what is his name?
Yogeśvara: Bhaumāsura.
Prabhupāda: Bhaumāsura, Bāṇāsura, Bāṇāsura. The picture, where is that picture, find out. Bāṇāsura. Bāṇāsura was appreciating, "Oh, very nice couple." But he had to challenge, "Why you have entered my palace and talking with my unmarried girl?"
Bhagavān: Yes. This is the Kṛṣṇa Book that Śrīla Prabhupāda has written. It is a summary of the Tenth Canto. And all these paintings, these are done by our artists in New York.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Ivory, yes. There is a current proverb, "Dead elephant, one lakh rupees." Mara hati lakṣa na:(?) "Elephant, alive or dead, one lakh of rupees." On account of ivory. When the elephant is dead, it is put into a hole and covered. And after sometimes you find all the ivory. The bones and the teeth are very, very valuable. Formerly big, big kings, they used to manufacture their furniture of ivory and gold and silk pad. This is luxury. And the rooms bedecked with jewel. No electricity, no lamp. This is description of Kṛṣṇa's sixteen thousand palace. Who has got now? Sixteen thousand wives and sixteen thousand palace of marble and furniture ivory and gold. Where is there now? Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the richest. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya.
Devotee (1): Were all the races originated in India?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee (1): The races were originated in India, all the races, the different races that there are now?
Prabhupāda: India what do you mean by? Not the modern India. India was the whole world.
Prabhupāda: ...imaṁ rājarṣayo vidhuḥ. Rājarṣayaḥ, it means the saintly kings. These... Bhagavad-gītā it is said, in the Fourth Chapter, it is meant for the saintly kings, because if the king is saintly, and if he understands the philosophy of life, then he can turn the whole picture. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the palace? That is the palace?
Atreya Ṛṣi: That is the palace.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Very nice.
Atreya Ṛṣi: The inside is full of gold.
Prabhupāda: Heaps? Some... Huh? Full of gold.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Gold, yes. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So in Iran there is gold mine? No.
Atreya Ṛṣi: There is some, yes. Iran has the richest copper mines, oil, richest oil, the second in the world, the...
Prabhupāda: Who is the first?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Saudia Arabia. But we have gas, natural gas, the richest. It's so easy to take out this oil and gas. So easy, like..., easier than gold.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And it is more valuable than gold.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. And then they have many, many minerals... (end)
Prajāpati: The point is they have big, big buildings, big, big salaries, big, big positions...
Prabhupāda: That is... That is all right. If you want to keep one man in a very high position, you should give all comforts. That is good. Just like if you want to keep a king, he must have a palace. He must have his officers, secretaries...
Acyutānanda: So he means to say that if we present that we are better theologists, then their position will be in jeopardy.
Pañcadraviḍa: Then the question is "Then why...?" Now we are... Hypothetically, in this situation, we are approaching these theologists. Then why we are approaching if they are not open to discussion? I mean, what is the purpose in going to them?
Acyutānanda: No. Prajāpati here studied theology and brought it up to Prabhupāda.
Prajāpati: The purpose is because they are purporting to be...
Acyutānanda: Authority.
Prajāpati: ...what Śrīla Prabhupāda really is. Śrīla Prabhupāda is the real theologian, but they are using that name. And they... In that sense, they are the biggest cheaters. They're going by the name theologians, and they're not actually theologians. They're simply scholars, dry academicians.
Prabhupāda: What is that scholarship? Simply...
Prajāpati: The scholarship... They have degrees by their names, and they've gone through listening to other mental speculators, and now their students listen to them.
Prabhupāda: You said there are twelve names?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes. I have a list of them.
Paramahaṁsa: The Greeks say that they built their buildings... They hired some very big men called cyclopses, big giants. And they came and built all the buildings.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And such stories are in Mahābhārata also. The demons were engaged, giants and demons, for construction. Yes. And they were very good artist, how to do it. Now we employ the first-class men, so-called first-class engineering, but they were meant for the demons and giants. Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: Well, that explains how they built such fantastic temples and palaces.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Amogha: Some people say, "Why don't we see any giants any more today?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the Africa, there were many giants, very high, very strong.
Devotee (1):. Where is that?
Paramahaṁsa: In Africa some of the natives, very big, eight feet tall.
Prabhupāda: Very tall.
Guest (2): Is polygamy illicit?
Prabhupāda: No.
Guest (2): Not illicit. But it is...
Prabhupāda: Polygamy means if it is married. Just like in the Vedic society they used to marry many wives. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa had sixteen thousand wives. And He maintained them sixteen thousand palaces. And He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand Kṛṣṇas. So that is a different thing; He is God. But if you can maintain each and every wife, you can marry more than one wife. But if you are unable to maintain, that is illicit. All the kṣatriya kings, they used to marry more than one wife. Still in India, the kṣatriyas, kings, they have more than one wife. But they maintain very nicely.
Guest (2): But your method of curing drug addiction has no definite practical use, surely.
Prabhupāda: Why not practical?
Guest (2): Not everyone who wants to stop taking drugs can spend six months in solitude or in a company like yours.
Bali-mardana: Previously the only big building was the church.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Big church or king's royal palace, like that. Ordinary men, they used to live in cottage. That is especially in India. They did not... What is the use? If you are not going to live there... It is a common sense. But they have no idea. They are thinking, "We shall live forever in this house." And Kṛṣṇa says that "I will come as death and take away all your possession." That they cannot understand. They will think that "No, my possession is all. I will die. I will go to hell. Still, it is my possession." This is. He will go to hell; still, his possession. (laughs) This is intelligence.
Gurukṛpa: They are so dependent that if there is no electricity, where will they get water on the twentieth floor?
Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from that... There are so many inconveniences. There is no doubt about it. But he is thinking, "Now I have done this skyscraper building, it is my possession, and even though I go to hell, it will remain my possession." He does not believe next life, but he is thinking, "My generation." But if there is no next life, what is the question of generation? Who is coming to become your generation if there is no next life? Hm? "My son, my grandson will..." But who is coming to be your... Because there is no next life, everything is finished with this body, then who is coming to be your son and who is coming to be your grandson? The common sense. But they are so dull, they cannot understand.
Harikeśa: Morning walk, L.A., June 22nd. (break)
Jayatīrtha: ...palace, fifty-five rooms. Each room is big size with a marble fireplace and the floors are marble and there's a marble winding staircase and several big rooms. And it's got its own chapel, very beautiful. And then the land is very beautiful, 250 acres, as far as you can see.
Prabhupāda: So it is worth taking?
Jayatīrtha: It seems to be. The price seems to be about the right price.
Prabhupāda: So down payment has been made?
Jayatīrtha: Yes, it's already... It's now in our name. It's been transferred.
Prabhupāda: And when they are moving?
Jayatīrtha: Some devotees have already moved.
Prabhupāda: Oh. It is vacant, vacant?
Jayatīrtha: It was vacant, yes. Well, the old owner, he is keeping one room in the building for the time being. The man who sold it to us, he's a very..., Sort of a pious gentleman. He's doing humanitarian work. He's a war hero.
Prabhupāda: War hero?
Jayatīrtha: Yes. In the last war. (Prabhupāda laughs) So he is also helping us. He has a big factory next to the land and he's letting us use it for the incense business. So he's doing some good service.
Prabhupāda: What is that factory?
Prabhupāda: War hero?
Jayatīrtha: Yes. In the last war. (Prabhupāda laughs) So he is also helping us. He has a big factory next to the land and he's letting us use it for the incense business. So he's doing some good service.
Prabhupāda: What is that factory?
Jayatīrtha: He employs these alcoholics and derelicts in different kinds of work, making things. And he was keeping these people living in this palace, but now he's built another place next door where he keeps them and he has them employed. It's sort of an Alcoholics Anonymous group.
Prabhupāda: Let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they will be rectified.
Jayatīrtha: Yes, that's a best thing. Bhagavān hopes eventually to convert them. Anyway, it's a very beautiful place. Especially this time of year, it's very beautiful.
Prabhupāda: How long it takes to go there from Paris?
Jayatīrtha: About two and a half hours.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Two and a half hours? And what is the nearest town?
Jayatīrtha: It's near Lyons, Orleans, Orleans.
Prabhupāda: Oh. How far it is from our palace?
Jayatīrtha: About half an hour, I think. It is between several big towns. And it's very centrally located for saṅkīrtana all over France.
Jayatīrtha: It's nice during the day and a little cold at night.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Jayatīrtha: Europe is always cold.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Europe is always cold.
Jayatīrtha: Always cold. But this palace is in a fairly warm zone. It's got some sort of breeze coming from the Mediterranean Sea, I think. Anyway, it keeps it a little warmer than most places. And it does not snow very much during the winter, they say. Besides the palace, there are some other buildings also. One place they are going to use for a gośāla, and one place for a Gurukula. And then several householder houses.
Prabhupāda: And the land for farming?
Jayatīrtha: Yes, at least half the land is good for farming. It's level and there's a good water supply.
Prabhupāda: There is some river?
Jayatīrtha: No, there's no river, but there's a...
Prabhupāda: Waterfall?
Jayatīrtha: ...pond there.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break)
Jayatīrtha: ...fifty devotees in Paris now. So that temple there is very crowded. Impossible.
Prabhupāda: Anyway... And Australia also, Sydney, oh, they are very fond of dog race. Every man is coming with big big, dog for racing purpose.
Satsvarūpa: It's good gambling.
Prabhupāda: And Europe, the most aristocratic person means he is keeping so many horses and so many dogs. That is aristocracy. They will ride on the horse, and taking their dogs, they will go to the forest and kill some innocent birds. That is their heroic activities. We went to see one palace in France.
Satsvarūpa: Yes, I remember. In the hall they had all pictures of those activities.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Killing birds and fox.
Prabhupāda: That is aristocracy. (break) ...cannon, there was fight? Or this man is very famous hero? There was statue of Napoleon also in Paris. And they identify Napoleon and France, the same. But France is there; there is no Napoleon. (laughter) Napoleon finished, Hitler finished, Gandhi finished. (break)
Brahmānanda: That statue where Napoleon is, formerly there was another statue there of Louis XIV. So Napoleon, he pulled down that other statue and put his statue there.
Prabhupāda: And somebody will come... Just like in Karachi they have pulled down Gandhi's statue, and I do not know what statue they placed.
Prabhupāda: (break) It's coming out.
Sudāmā: It's stopped up. They haven't cleaned it evidently, so the water is backing up with stools.
Devotee: (break) In Dvārakā, did Kṛṣṇa's queens play tennis?
Prabhupāda: What is the use of playing tennis? There is mention that Dvārakā they were playing ball on the roof of the palace, the queens. Maybe tennis also there. (break) ...playing this there, on the roof. Kind of exercise for the woman, queens.
Devotee (1): Only for the women?
Prabhupāda: Yes. No men.
Devotee (2): Kṛṣṇa and His friends would play sometimes, catch with fruits in the forest?
Prabhupāda: Fruits?
Devotee (3): Bael fruits.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are playing in so many ways.
Prabhupāda:
- bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ
- tayāpahṛta-cetasām
- vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ
- (samādhau) na vidhīyate
- (BG 2.44)
Therefore too much attachment for material enjoyment is disqualification for spiritual life. So the western world is trained up for being too much attached to material enjoyment. Therefore lagging behind in spiritual life. Vedic civilization is not to encourage too much for material enjoyment. Minimize. That is Indian civilization. They, if they had money they used to spend for constructing big temple, not for residential house. Maybe the king only had a big palace. Common men, they didn't care for big palace, the palatial building. Common man would be very glad to live in a cottage, and a small garden for growing vegetables, fruits, small lake, that's all. Not wasting time for big, big buildings, big, big... What is called, amenities?
Jayatīrtha: Amenities. (break)
Prabhupāda: It is good you have done this, but make this Kṛṣṇa consciousness also one of the paraphernalia. Then it is very nice. But they are not inclined. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is rich man. That is the explanation given by Marshall, a great economist. He says that unless one is obliged to work, nobody will work. That is his economic impetus. So the family affection gives impetus to work. He has to maintain the family. That is, he says, that is the beginning of economic development. Marshall theory. (break) ...kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. When there is attachment on account of Kṛṣṇa, that is detachment. Yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. He is attached to everything but not for his personal self. We are spending lakhs of rupees for constructing a temple, but we are not interested to construct a house or a skyscraper building. We are not interested. That is detachment. (break) We give up. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhe-vastunaḥ: "No, no, we don't touch money." Why? If the money can be utilized for constructing a nice temple for Kṛṣṇa, why we shall say, "We don't touch money"? Yes, give me as much money as you have got. Therefore you will find in India very, very big, big, costly temple, not skyscraper building. That is the sign. If any man had any money, he would spend it for Kṛṣṇa, not for his personal self. Personally he would be satisfied with a cottage. That is India's civilization. You will find in South India one temple is more than a fort, bigger. It is impossible to construct such temple nowadays. Still you will find in Vṛndāvana that broken Govindaji's temple. If you construct such temple, even crores and crores of rupees will not be sufficient. That was done by Mahārāja Mansingha, but you don't find any palace of Mansingha. He could have construct a palace there. No, he did not do. But for Govindaji, he spent so much money. There is no such thing, attachment, detachment. We must know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, and we are servants of Kṛṣṇa. This knowledge is required. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when you understand that everything is belonging to Kṛṣṇa, then the next sense is that why not everything be used for Kṛṣṇa? (break) ...theory is lost or not?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?
Prabhupāda: Bone theory, studying the bone.
Prabhupāda: The Satyabhāmā's father, he made a bet that "I have got these bulls, one dozen bull, very strong. And the boy who will be able to break the horns of these bulls, I will offer my daughter to him." So whole world will fail. You see, it is not so easy job. But Kṛṣṇa did it. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not that husband, that he would pick out some cheap girl and make her pregnant and go away. (laughter)
Citsukhānanda: I think this was the case with the Swedish book.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives, and each wife he gave big palaces made of marble, furniture ivory, and silk and gold, and then again He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand forms, not that one wife is crying for sixteen thousand days, no. Ready (indistinct). And that is Kṛṣṇa. That was also just to give them protection. When they were all kidnapped by Jarāsandha... No? Bhaumāsura. So when they were released, so asked them, "Go home." So in India, if a girl is kidnapped and she lives outside home for three days, nobody will marry her. That system is still now. So they said that "You are asking to go home but we will not be accepted." "Then what do you want?" "Now You marry us." "All right, come on." (laughter) Wholesale, sixteen thousand wives. This is Kṛṣṇa. We are not captivated by Kṛṣṇa, a Guruji Mahārāja. We know what is Kṛṣṇa. Then we accept He is God. He has proved Himself that He is God. Our Kṛṣṇa is not going to marry a society girl secretary. He is not so cheap.
Prabhupāda: Why you went to Vṛndāvana, New Vrindaban?
Guru dāsa: I associated with Kirtananda Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: And what was the result?
Guru dāsa: Well, I'm a little bit stronger in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Associating with devotees is a wonderful thing. They are really doing a lot of productive service there. They just put in a new road. The palace, they're putting the arches up today. Everyone's enthusiastic there. (break)
Prabhupāda: You informed him that you are taking sannyāsa?
Guru dāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What did he say?
Guru dāsa: He smiled, said "Very nice." (break) ...Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Gosvāmī that, as you requested, I'd like to join his bus party.
Prabhupāda: Is that all right?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)
Jayatīrtha: What is the position of a soul that's in a sacred tree like a fig tree?
Prabhupāda: There are also sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa is working throughout the universe. (break) ...was attempt to manufacture gold by combination of metals. They are not doing that?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: The grains or the milk or whatever.
Prabhupāda: Whatever, yes. "Give me twenty-five percent. You can utilize the land." So that is resource of the land.
Devotee (1): How does the kṣatriya build a palace for himself or something like that?
Prabhupāda: That will be done. To keep a prestigious position, they'll have building, servant, soldiers. Otherwise how they will fear? How they'll have respect?
Devotee (1): So the kṣatriya is the predominator of the land.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṣatriya is the owner of the land.
Devotee (1): And he can take the stones and men and build a big, nice...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: ...palace.
Prabhupāda: They, śūdras are there. Give him his eating, and some hand, pocket expense, hand expense, regular. If one can eat, then he has no demand. So the laborer has to be given to eat sumptuously. "Eat and work, take some pocket..." They will be (indistinct). Not that you call professional laborer and you have to pay twenty-five dollars per hour. That is nuisance. They'll drink. That's all. And not that everyone should have nice house. Why? What is the use? Go in the village, live simple, produce food. That's all. Eat. Why this electricity and three-hundred story building and...? And then you don't produce anything, eat fish. "And let me eat..." Artificial. It is very easy to take the animals in the city and slaughter. A little vegetable and milk, they are satisfied.
Indian man: Yes. Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has given me. So depend on Kṛṣṇa. He says, teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemam: "One who is engaged in My service, all that he wants, I supply." He says. See practically. Whatever we wanted, it is coming. It is coming not for my credit or another, anyone credit. It is all Kṛṣṇa's credit. He is giving. As soon as He sees that "They are working for Me," He'll supply everything, whatever you need. Simply we must be sincere and spend it very cautiously, not squandering the money. Then He will give us everything. There is no need of surma(?)-making. I say it is nonsense that by surma-making I will be happy. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Only for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness we should work. Then everything will come, whatever we want. That is called anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (Brs. 1.1.11), without desiring for anything else. (break) "...in a rented house, there was no trouble. And as soon as this Devidatta gave us this marble palace, then there was competition who will occupy which room. In this way dissension began. So I am desiring that this dissension will increase and there will be fire. So to save this fire, I wish to get out all the marbles from this house and sell it and publish some books. That will remain." He said to me. Then I understood that he is giving more stress on books. "Sell the marbles and publish book instead of creating dissension amongst ourself." So, strictly, anyone occupies this guest room, he must pay. (end)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Radio, and things like this.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you want to make mass communication, you can do anything. (break) Due to industrialization, all intelligent men, they came in the city. In the village it was deserted. So there was no improvement in the village, and people preferred to come to the city, means industry, business. So India's basic principle was village life. Now that is lost. The intelligent class men, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they left villages for earning more money in the cities, and only the śūdras, less intelligent class of men, less than śūdras, they remained. So what they will do? So village became deserted. Still you’ll go and see in Indian villages, especially in Bengal, so many big, big palatial buildings, they are lying vacant.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the villages?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the proprietor left and the poor cultivators, śūdras, they are accustomed to live in cottages. India's civilization was based on village residence. They would live very peacefully in the villages. In the evening there would be bhagavata-kathā. They will hear. That was Indian culture. They had no artificial way of living, drinking tea, and meat-eating and wine and illicit sex. No. Everyone was religious and satisfied by hearing—what we are just introducing—Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Purāṇas, and live simple life, keeping cows, village life as it is exhibited by Kṛṣṇa, Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa, if He liked, He could have lived in the cities. (pause) So the education was meant for teaching people to hate everything Indian.
Harikeśa: It's a lot of fun to drive fast cars and have sex and see movies and... This is fun you know. It's the only way to enjoy!
Prabhupāda: Yes. Enjoyment is there in the cats and dogs. When you enjoy sex in palace and the dog enjoys sex on the street, the value is the same. The taste does not increase or decrease. But you are thinking to enjoy sex in big palace is advancement. That is your foolishness. Actually sex enjoyment in the palace or on the street is the same. It has no difference of taste.
Harikeśa: So then we can have sex on the street.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are going to have that, next life! (laughter) Because you are desiring, you will get this life. Kṛṣṇa will fulfill your desire. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante māyā... (BG 4.11). Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. Kṛṣṇa is within you. You are thinking that I will be very much happy if I enjoy sex like the dog. Kṛṣṇa notes, and next life, "My dear friend here is the body. You enter and enjoy." Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). He is noting down your desire. Hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. Māyayā brāhmayan sarva-bhūtāni, yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. This is clearly explained. Alright, you want the enjoyment like dog, here is. Remembrance is also there. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). You wanted to enjoy sex like a dog. Now I have given you this body, now you enjoy. Everything is there, arranged.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Gradually they are becoming animals, or they are already animals.
Mahāmṣa: The principal of my school, he used to be a priest, and he used to give us these classes whereby he would tell the students that one must experience sex life before marriage. He was propagating illicit sex life in school, and being a principal and from a priestly class of person, so degraded. (break)
Yaśodānandana: ...called Ahobilam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also went there. And the paṇḍitas there, they have reference from the Brahmāṇḍa Purāṇa.... (break) ...was killed by Lord Nṛsiṁha. There is the room, the palace and everything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) Chipped rice?
Mahāmṣa: No, that was sugar.
Prabhupāda: Sugar? Salt.
Harikeśa: That's the way their salt is here.
Acyutānanda: In blocks?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rock salt.
Prabhupāda: Not rock salt. Sea salt.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Transcendental platform.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them see practically. We are not busy how to go to the office, how to the business place. We are not interested. We are simply interested for maṅgala ārati, for class, for chanting, dancing. That's all. Practically see. We are not going to any office or any business.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yet we're still living in a palace.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them see it. We are living in such a palace that everyone is envious. They ask in America that "You people, you do not do anything. How do you live so, like this?" Do they not?
Sudāmā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The storekeeper says. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And when we tell them, "We will also teach you how to do nothing also and live in a palace," they say, "Oh, no, thank you. That I do not want. I want to work hard."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is called worms of the stool. You see? If you take this worm from the stool, "Why you are living in stool? Come here," "No, no. I go back there." You'll see. The pig eating stool, ask him, "Take halavā. Why you are eating?" "No, no. I like it very much." This is māyā.
Hari-śauri: It's the wrong type of renunciation.
Prabhupāda: There is no renunciation. There is sense gratification. "I like this." That's all. He is thinking that "I am so renounced," but he's still satisfying his senses. That's all. As soon as we manufacture something, that is sense gratification. "I want to fulfill my desire. That's all." That is sense gratification. It may be I sit down on the tree, or I may sit down on the palace. That is sense... The basic principle is sense gratification. The other day I was talking about hīrā-cora and kṣīrā-cora. Hīrā means diamond. And kṣīrā means...
Devotees: Cucumber.
Prabhupāda: "I shall steal. I shall steal one cucumber." And another one thinks, "If I steal, I shall steal the diamond." But the stealing propensity is there, hīrā-cora or kṣīrā-cora. "Well, I am stealing one..., only one cucumber. That is not very dangerous." But, but to the eyes of law, both of them are criminal, either you take hīrā or kṣīrā. Big thief and small thief, that's all. Thief. You are thief. So we manufacture concoction that "Yes, I have got this stealing propensity. So I'll not steal diamond. I'll steal kṣīrā, not hīrā." This is only mental concoction, but he is a thief.
Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing: "There is no classification, neither real brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya. So he is enjoying like that. He has got so many cars. He has got such a nice apartment. Why not me?" There is struggle. This is actual picture. Our Vedic advice is that make life very simple. You must have some means of livelihood. Keep your body and soul together. So according to quality, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), there must be division and then simple life. The real aim is tam abhyarcya, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everyone is.... Brāhmaṇa is guiding, kṣatriya is ruling, and vaiśya is producing food, and śūdra, they have no brain; they are helping. In this way the society is very peaceful, and everyone is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is India's civilization.
Devotee (5): That's the ah..... There are many famous paintings of Christ on the cross and his mother before..., his mother standing before the cross.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mother cannot see it. Impossible. Better close the eyes. That is artist's realized. How a man can paint the expression of the mother, his child being killed. It is not possible. (break) Lesson by natures' study. Generally.... Generally means that is natural if one is under the protection of father and mother he must be happy. So why shall I give up the protection of father and mother? When my father is quite able, quite rich, and everything complete. Not that the poor father. (break) ...plainly declare, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Practically see. I came to your country without any of these things. You saw. When I came to your country first, I had no center, no.... But who has provided all these hundred temples, big, big palaces, temples? Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). To remain under the protection of Kṛṣṇa you get so much facility. Why not be grateful to Kṛṣṇa? (inaudible) ...and He has given me so many sons, so many houses, so many protection. Shall I not feel grateful? Is it not my duty? What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa gives everything, and "No, no, I don't believe in God. God is dead." All rascals. Who denies God, he is the lowest rascal, immediately. Mūḍha. (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes. He's very intelligent, he knows what we are doing. His wife also, that young girl.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, very nice. They're actually a little aristocratic, I think.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have palatial buildings in Ahmedabad, oh.
Prabhupāda: That, when I was staying there, that young girl, the daughter, she was always taking care, always taking care: "Swamiji, what do you want, what can I serve?"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was a wonderful stay. That was when Mrs. Nair surrendered. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: The Bhogilal was coming daily.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To talk with you?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Rāmeśvara: Anxiously waiting.
Prabhupāda: You have seen our Detroit, new?
Kīrtanānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: Oh, it is a great palace.
Kīrtanānanda: I have heard it is very...
Prabhupāda: It was constructed by spending six million dollars. (laughs)
Kīrtanānanda: Many years ago.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and it is nice palace, and we got it for 300,000.
Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda personally made the arrangement.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. That man was asking 350,000, so, just like ordinary arrangement, ten percent down, so I made a bargain: "All right, I'll give you 300,000 cash. Accept it." So he immediately accepted. (laughs) There was no money. Then one girl contributed 150,000, and...
Kīrtanānanda: Is that the Reuther girl?
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And our Ford, Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, he also...
Hari-śauri: They have some fresh pineapples and a juicing machine just across the road, so someone has gone for some now. It'll be five minutes.
Prabhupāda: It is finished. In England aristocracy is finished.
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They're all selling their property. They cannot maintain. Even the Queen cannot maintain her establishment, but because it's government.... The Buckingham Palace was not repaired for many years. Last time, when I went there, I saw it is repaired now. Before that, three, four times I went. It is blackish. The stone.... It is made of stone. The stone had become black. That means many years it was not repaired.
Hari-śauri: What they do now if they have some big house in the country and they want to keep it, they have to put it on show during the summer months. They allow people to come, and they charge them so much money to come and look around.
Prabhupāda: The Parliament and that.... What is that church?
Hari-śauri: Westminster Abbey?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They charge.
Hari-śauri: Guided tour. They cannot live there themselves. They can only live there in the winter.
Prabhupāda: They collect very sufficiently. I have seen. Again, inside you go, and a particular section, if you want to see, the another payment. Yes. First of all, entrance fee; then, within that, if you want to see another particular section, then another fee. And they are collecting money. I have seen. Śyāmasundara took me there.
Hari-śauri: Made them all into separate states.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (japa) Now England is finished. There are aristocrat type statues now rolling on the ground. Who takes care? Their, their Lennon? Lennon, John Lennon and George Harrison, they are purchasing big, big palaces. (japa)
Hari-śauri: All the aristocracy, they just go out to work like anyone else.
Prabhupāda: The lords are roaming on the street. I have seen many lords. They're ordinary.... Even they haven't got car. The Queen also, just like ordinary, common man. Royal family.
Rāmeśvara: One day America will be poor like that also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Luxury leads to poverty. When the American becomes too much luxurious, they'll not be able to defend their country. Then it will be finished.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, with all the constructions, perhaps it's very high.
Prabhupāda: But we are getting money. We have no money, but still we can sit down in such a nice palace. This is practical. So money is not problem. The problem is godlessness. So as soon as there is godlessness, there will be suffering, different types of suffering. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taranti te
- (BG 7.14)
Problem, māyā is problem.
Hari-śauri:
- daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taranti te
"This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it."
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Hari-śauri: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead has innumerable energies, and all of these energies are divine. Although the living entities are part of His energies, and are therefore divine, due to contact with material energy their original superior power is covered. Being thus covered by material energy, one cannot possibly overcome its influence. As previously stated, both the material and spiritual natures, being emanations from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, are eternal. The living entities belong to the eternal superior nature of the Lord, but due to contamination by the inferior nature, matter, their illusion is also eternal. The conditioned soul is therefore called nitya-baddha, or eternally conditioned. No one can trace out the history of his becoming conditioned at a certain date in material history. Consequently, his release from the clutches of material nature is very difficult, even though that material nature is an inferior energy, because material energy is ultimately conducted by the Supreme Will, which the living entity cannot overcome. Inferior material nature is defined herein as divine nature due to its divine connection and movement by the divine will. Being conducted by the divine will, material nature, although inferior, acts so wonderfully in the construction and destruction of the cosmic manifestation that the Vedas confirm this as follows: māyāṁ tu prakṛtiṁ vidyān māyinaṁ tu maheśvaram. Although māyā is false and temporary, the background of māyā is the supreme magician, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is Maheśvara, the supreme controller. Another meaning of guṇa is rope. It is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly bound by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself. He must be helped by a person who is unbound, because the bound cannot help the bound. The rescuer must be liberated. Therefore only Lord Kṛṣṇa or His bone fide representative the spiritual master can release the conditioned soul. Without such superior help, one cannot be freed from the bondage of material nature. Devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, can help one gain such release. Kṛṣṇa, being the Lord of the illusory energy, can order this insurmountable energy to release the conditioned soul. He orders this release out of His causeless mercy on the surrendered soul, and out of His paternal affection for the living entity, who is originally a beloved son of the Lord. Therefore surrender unto the lotus feet of the Lord is the only means to get free from the clutches of the stringent material nature. The words mām eva are also significant. Mām means unto Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, only, and not Brahmā or Śiva. Although Brahmā and Śiva are greatly elevated and are almost on the level of Viṣṇu, it is not possible for such incarnations of rajo-guṇa (passion) and tamo-guṇa (ignorance) to release the conditioned soul from the clutches of māyā. In other words, both Brahmā and Śiva are under the influence of māyā. Only Viṣṇu is the master of māyā. Therefore He alone can give release to the conditioned soul. The Vedas confirm this in the phrase tvam eva viditvā, or 'Freedom is possible only by understanding Kṛṣṇa.' Even Lord Śiva affirms that liberation can be achieved only at the mercy of Viṣṇu. Lord Śiva says, mukti-pradātā sarveṣāṁ viṣṇur eva na saṁśayaḥ: 'There is no doubt that Viṣṇu is the deliverer of liberation for everyone.' "
Prabhupāda: The institution is already there. We are conducting Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if the government cooperates that a certain number of students must be trained up scientifically what is the meaning of God, that will be very much beneficial to the state or to the country. We can give solution for any problem. "We" means Kṛṣṇa. We are simply preaching Kṛṣṇa's message. Kṛṣṇa means God. Kṛṣṇa means black also. Kṛṣṇa, this word, (chuckles) means black also. He is following?
Prabhupāda: Well we are not denying sense gratification. We want to regulate. That's all.
Mādhavānanda: Actually, we have the best sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes.
Mādhavānanda: On the radio program, one lady, she was asking questions. She was very envious. "And you are living in such a palace."
Prabhupāda: Why shall I not? Government servants, they live in the best place. We are Kṛṣṇa's servants, the supreme government. We must have the best car, best house, the best food, (laughter) everything. You are unfortunate, you are wretched, you cannot possess this. We are government's servants. Why the governor is living in the best house of the city?
Mādhavānanda: We said, "You can live here with us." She said, "Thank you."
Prabhupāda: Without any charges. Did you not say? But as soon as you shall say there is no tea, he'll go away. "Oh, horrible." (laughter) Just see. And you have to rise early in the morning. "Oh, it's still horrible." And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. "Ah, still."
Ambarīṣa: What is the question, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Question is that your forefathers and fathers have got so much money, whether it has solved the problems of life?
Ambarīṣa: No, it hasn't solved any of their problems. It has multiplied them. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: He is the best.... He could have personally owned this palace and lived very luxuriously. He has got the means. But he did not like that. He gave it to the Vaiṣṇavas. So money cannot solve the problems. That is not possible.
Devotee (1): This is a very logical argument of preaching. When you tell them that the standard of happiness is not material opulence, people are willing to accept, because they see they are not becoming more happy.
Prabhupāda: They think like that, but that is not the solution of problems. So you discuss on this point.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They think like that because of false propaganda. So if we counterattack with the right propaganda, people will hear it.
Prabhupāda: So why you cannot write propaganda? You should. You are preaching. You must meet them and must convince them that simply getting money is not the solution of the problem. (microphone rattling) That you have to convince.
Hari-śauri: Purport. "While discussing the subject of this body and the owner of the body, the soul and the Supersoul, we shall find three different topics of study: the Lord, the living entity, and matter. In every field of activities, in every body, there are two souls: the individual soul and the Supersoul. Because the Supersoul is the plenary expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, 'I am also the knower, but I am not the individual owner of the body. I am the superknower. I am present in every body as the Paramātmā, or Supersoul.' One who studies the subject matter of the field of activity and the knower of the field very minutely, in terms of this Bhagavad-gītā, can attain to knowledge. The Lord says: 'I am the knower of the field of activities in every individual body.' The individual may be the knower of his own body, but he is not in knowledge of other bodies. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is present as the Supersoul in all bodies, knows everything about all bodies. He knows all the different bodies of all the various species of life. A citizen may know everything about his patch of land, but the king knows not only his palace but all the properties possessed by the individual citizens. Similarly, one may be the proprietor of the body individually, but the Supreme Lord is the proprietor of all bodies. The king is the original proprietor of the kingdom, and the citizen is the secondary proprietor. Similarly, the Supreme Lord is the supreme proprietor of all bodies. The body consists of senses. The Supreme Lord is Hṛṣīkeśa, which means controller of the senses. He is the original controller of the senses, just as the king is the original controller of all the activities of the state, and the citizens are secondary controllers. The Lord also says, 'I am also the knower.' This means that He is the superknower; the individual soul knows only his particular body. In the Vedic literature, it is also stated..."
Prabhupāda: Just like pains and pleasure. You know your bodily pains and pleasure, I know my body. But I do not know your bodily pains, neither you know mine. But God knows everyone's pains and pleasures. That is the difference between God and individual soul.
Prabhupāda: Where is that independence? With his family he can come and take food. What is wrong there? We say that we should not..., we are not simply supplying food. Anyone who is coming, he is getting spiritual education. Not that it is a free hotel. No. It is not that. We give them spiritual education. You come here, you take your shelter, you take your food and learn how to be first-class man. That is our program. Don't be implicated in sinful activities. Be God conscious and live here with us comfortably, take your food. We have got this nice palace.
Kern: Doctor, do you recruit people to come?
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are inviting everyone come. We have no such distinction.
Kern: I have four young alcoholics I'd like to send over.
Prabhupāda: No, these boys and girls are not imported from India, recruited. They are recruited here. I came alone. They are all recruited. I have got so many centers all over the world. They are simply recruited.
Scheverman: Your asceticism, your way of life, your training program, having its Eastern origins, has a great appeal, I think, for many young people.
Prabhupāda: It is not Eastern, Western. It is the life. Just like to become peaceful, is it Eastern or Western? Peaceful is peaceful. Why do you bring Eastern?
Kathy Kerr: What purpose does the chanting serve?
Prabhupāda: Cleansing. The brain cleansed so that one can understand. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Cleansing. We have got so many dirty things within ourselves. By this chanting and following these regulative principles, it will be cleansed. Then just like a mirror full of dust, you have to cleanse it. Then you'll see your face very nicely. So this is the process of cleansing the mirror of heart. So when it is cleansed, then you can understand, "Yes, I'm not this body. I am soul. My business is different." That is wanted. Therefore we are encouraging people to come here, chant, dance, and take prasādam. Gradual process. They have come. In the beginning, I had no place to stay even. Now we have got hundreds of big, big palaces.
Prabhupāda: Whatever was there, it was due to misunderstanding.
Kīrtanānanda: The sheriff is very favorable, the judge. That judge that came to see you last time you were here, he still keeps a picture of you in his desk.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Kīrtanānanda: When the palace is finished we will have nice ceremonies, and many of the local dignitaries will come. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...begins?
Kīrtanānanda: Moundsville is that way about five miles. We are almost to New Vrindaban now. Two miles.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our post office is Moundsville.
Kīrtanānanda: Yes. Do you want to go directly to your quarters, or do you want to stop by the temple?
Prabhupāda: Yes, temple. Deities open?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Kīrtanānanda: In New Vrindaban, this is your palace.
Prabhupāda: Oh! So many (indistinct)
Kīrtanānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is no such building in America. (break) These are our workers?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, these are your builders here. Bhāgavatānanda Prabhu has done the design.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Very nice.
Kīrtanānanda: And Ātmabhū Prabhu is the chief construction man.
Prabhupāda: Oh, all our men.
Kīrtanānanda: All our men.
Prabhupāda: It is very nice.
Kīrtanānanda: Your car will come in here, and you get out and come right in.
Prabhupāda: And this is the hall?
Kīrtanānanda: This will be a little hall, and that is the worship room. We can put your vyāsāsana in there, and you can lecture there, and we can worship you always there.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Kīrtanānanda: Seeing your palace here is almost like seeing the Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple for the first time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In Raman Reti there was no temple. Similarly, in this quarter there was no such building. Many people will come to see it.
Kīrtanānanda: They already do, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, I can understand.
Kīrtanānanda: Many people come by every week to see what progress has been made. And everybody who drives by, they stop.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is something wonderful in this quarter.
Kīrtanānanda: You can drive fifty miles away around here and they'll stop and ask you about how's the palace coming.
Devotee: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Changing New Vrindaban. It is already organized, New Vrindaban? (in car:) Little further.
Kīrtanānanda: We're trying to clear all this now too.
Prabhupāda: This is ours?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Very nice. Thank you. This is plastic?
Kīrtanānanda: This is what they make the mold from. This one is in plaster. Now they will cast more. Below that the...
Prabhupāda: They can do Deity also, they can.
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, after they've done with your palace they're going to start on some Deities. I think they would like permission to first start with your Deity.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Kulaśekhara is here?
Kīrtanānanda: Kulaśekhara, yes, he is editing Brijabasi Spirit now. We will put a wall around and then all nice gardens inside.
Prabhupāda: Cement wall or wooden?
Kīrtanānanda: No, a combination of masonry and fancy iron so that people can see through.
Prabhupāda: Reinforced.
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, but also so they can see through at certain points.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. With sunshine this wood becomes very, very beautiful. Tapo-vana. (break) ...in this house. Who is staying now?
Kīrtanānanda: Usually there are devotees that stay there. Right now we are not having anybody stay there. Lord Jagannātha stays there.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Here, in this house? No.
Prabhupāda: Hm? (laughs) Where is Pradyumna Mahārāja?
Kīrtanānanda: He's just inside the house. You'd like him to come out?
Prabhupāda: No. Pālikā, you came before here?
Pālikā: Six years ago. There was just that one small, original farm.
Prabhupāda: Now it is a big property. And when the palace will be ready, many people will.... You simply advertise "Come and see palaces in New Vrindaban." It will be a combination of Western and Eastern culture. For the profit of the whole human society. So Vṛndāvana-candra will come here? No. Vṛndāvana-candra Deity?
Kīrtanānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: His palace will be different.
Kīrtanānanda: His palace will be where the building is now. We're planning to move Him into the new building next to the present temple, the four-story building. He will occupy the fourth floor for now. Then we will take down that old building and put up a nice big temple.
Prabhupāda: So why you dismantle, construct another?
Kīrtanānanda: The building is not in such good condition.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. As soon as the new temple is, move it; or you want to dismantle it.
Kīrtanānanda: The site is good.
Kulādri: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Just to show that he has a motorcycle? Or what is purpose?
Kulādri: They have given us trouble sometimes.
Prabhupāda: Demons.
Kulādri: When your palace is on the other side, they won't disturb. And we will have walls.
Prabhupāda: No, they don't like us.
Kulādri: They are doing better than before, but still they are somewhat envious.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere this world is like that. Even the father will give trouble, Prahlāda Mahārāja, what to speak of others. Demon father is giving trouble to a Vaiṣṇava son. And not grown-up son, five years old, innocent, but he's giving trouble.
Devotee (3): When we had sickness the state police became very interested in us, and today a state policeman stopped me and asked if you were here. So he seems to be paying special attention that you are here now. He's very interested.
Prabhupāda: However demon may be, they can appreciate that these are ideal characters.
Prabhupāda: What is this article? Ah. "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness-The Spirit of '76." "Curing the Crimes of a Lifetime." Vibhavatī. "Curing the Crimes"—read it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (reads) "Adapted from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, translation and commentary by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda." In the middle there is a picture of Arjuna piercing the target, and Draupadī. "With the recent disgrace of an American president still fresh in our minds, it is interesting to read of a similar case in ancient times. Five thousand years ago a blind king named Dhṛtarāṣṭra dishonored his high post and caused the death of millions. This story is of special importance even today, because he found an antidote to the crimes of a lifetime and in his old age became self-realized. King Dhṛtarāṣṭra was the acting monarch of Hastināpura, the capital of the Vedic kingdom of Bhārata, which five thousand years ago, according to the Vedic literature, spread over most of the planet. Hastināpura was on the banks of the Yamunā River at the present-day site..., at the site of present day Delhi. As its name indicates-hasti means elephant—it was a city full of opulently decorated elephants. Noble men rode elaborate chariots past marble palaces inlaid with glittering jewels. The sweet smell of incense drifted out of lattice windows. Trees bearing fruits and flowers lined the wide streets, which were sprinkled with scented water. There was no hint of poverty or distress. Hastināpura was the crown jewel of the abundant Vedic civilization. From the beginning, Dhṛtarāṣṭra's position as king was never legal, for he was blind, and Vedic law ruled that a blind man cannot be king. Thus the throne went to his younger brother Pāṇḍu. But when Pāṇḍu died in his young manhood, Dhṛtarāṣṭra began ruling on behalf of Pāṇḍu's five sons, who were still children. In an age of great and honorable kings, Dhṛtarāṣṭra was an exception. Swayed by his eldest son Duryodhana's ruthless lust for power, Dhṛtarāṣṭra began to abuse the guardianship of the Pāṇḍavas by closing his already blind eyes to the planned and purposeful efforts of Duryodhana to destroy the boys. As the descendant of a great royal dynasty, Dhṛtarāṣṭra had the lineage and rearing of a proper monarch, but it seemed that he was as blind spiritually as he was physically. Although he admired and even loved the five fatherless princes, he began to contemplate taking away their kingdom, and even their lives."
Prabhupāda: At seven o'clock we shall go there?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is time now?
Kīrtanānanda: Six. Six o'clock, five past six.
Prabhupāda: Oh. All right. (exits room) (end)
Kīrtanānanda: A little bit, not too much.
Prabhupāda: Detroit temple, it was, that building was constructed at a cost of two million dollars, say some fifty years, sixty years ago. And we purchased it at three hundred thousand dollars. So when they said that there is a nice house, so I told "Let me go immediately." So I went there and talked with the proprietor, so I liked it very much. It is a wonderful palace. So he asked $350,000. So I talked with him and asked some concession. Then I last bid again, "I'll give you cash, three hundred thousand." So he said "Yes, I accept." There was no money. (laughter) So the Bombay purchase, you know, it was simply speculation. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us. For a karmī, it is not possible, but Kṛṣṇa gives us all facilities. You have been in that palace, Detroit? Very, very nice. Perhaps the best in our society, huh?
Hari-śauri: Without a doubt.
Prabhupāda: London, that is also nice, but not as nice. The building is so strong, and the rooms are so palatial, big, big, rooms. One room of this size of the whole...
Kīrtanānanda: How big is the temple room?
Hari-śauri: The temple room is not so big, fifty feet long and about thirty feet wide.
Prabhupāda: Bigger than here, double.
Devotee: Prabhupāda, you were a chemist before, but I think you are the greatest alchemist to have taken so many leaden souls and turned them into golden Vaiṣṇavas. Perhaps you can even transform them (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is giving us facilities to preach this cult. Everywhere we have got very, very palatial buildings to accommodate devotees. Now we have got here a very nice place, accommodate devotees. Everywhere we have got. In Bombay we are getting the best temple in India. We are spending crores of rupees, Kṛṣṇa is giving us money. So I started the business with forty rupees. That was also not American currency. They allowed me to bring forty rupees. So when I was getting off the ship I asked the captain, "I have brought these forty rupees, which will not be accepted here, so you take." At that time three books I had, the first, second and third volume. So I asked him that "You purchase. Give me some dollars." So he asked, "What is the price?" "Sixteen dollars." So he gave me twenty dollars, and I delivered them. With that twenty dollars I got out down on the land of America, and that forty rupees. So I did not know where to go, where to stay. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facilities, and these American boys are helping. I think those who are Indians, they should join this movement sincerely and preach more vigorously. People will be benefited—this is real substance. Otherwise people are being misguided, so many things going on. Transcendental meditation, the, what is called? No, another. So many. Actually, speaking for the last at least two hundred years, many swamis, people came here, but not a single person was converted to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is history. What do you think, Sukla? You have studied. So many swamis, yogis, scholars came, and they spoke on Bhagavad-gītā and other, but not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: What is the purport?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "While discussing the subject of this body and the owner of the body, the soul and the Supersoul, we shall find three different topics of study: the Lord, the living entity, and matter. In every field of activities, in every body, there are two souls: the individual soul and the Supersoul. Because the Supersoul is the plenary expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, 'I am also the knower, but I am not the individual owner of the body. I am the superknower. I am present in every body as the Paramātmā, or Supersoul.' One who studies the subject matter of the field of activity and the knower of the field very minutely, in terms of this Bhagavad-gītā, can attain to knowledge. The Lord says: 'I am the knower of the field of activities in every individual body.' The individual may be the knower of his own body, but he is not in knowledge of other bodies. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is present as the Supersoul in all bodies, knows everything about all bodies. He knows all the different bodies of all the various species of life. A citizen may know everything about his patch of land, but the king knows not only his palace but all the properties possessed by the individual citizens. Similarly, one may be the proprietor of the body individually, but the Supreme Lord is the proprietor of all bodies. The king is the original proprietor of the kingdom, and the citizen is the secondary proprietor. Similarly, the Supreme Lord is the supreme proprietor of all bodies. The body consists of the senses. The Supreme Lord is Hṛṣīkeśa, which means controller of the senses. He is the original controller of the senses just as the king is the original controller of all the activities of the state, and the citizens are secondary controllers. The Lord also says: 'I am also the knower.' This means that He is the superknower; the individual soul knows only his particular body. In the Vedic literature, it is stated as follows:
- kṣetrāṇi hi sarīrāṇi
- bījaṁ cāpi śubhāśubhe
- tāni vetti sa yogātmā
- tataḥ kṣetrajña ucyate
(break) This body is called the kṣetra, and within it dwells the owner of the body and the Supreme Lord, who knows both the body and the owner of the body. Therefore He is called the knower of all fields. The distinction between the field of activities, the owner of activities, and the supreme owner of activities is described as follows. Perfect knowledge of the constitution of the body, the constitution of the individual soul, and the constitution of the Supersoul is known in terms of Vedic literature as jñānam. That is the opinion of Kṛṣṇa. To understand both the soul and the Supersoul as one yet distinct is knowledge. One who does not understand the field of activity activity and the knower of activity is not in perfect knowledge. One has to understand the position of prakṛti (nature), and puruṣa (the enjoyer of the nature), and īśvara (the knower who dominates or controls nature and the individual soul). One should not confuse the three in their different capacities. One should not confuse the painter, the painting and the easel. This material world, which is the field of activities, is nature, and the enjoyer of nature is the living entity, and above them both is the supreme controller, the Personality of Godhead. It is stated in the Vedic language: bhoktā bhogyaṁ preritaraṁ ca matvā sarvaṁ proktaṁ tri-vidhaṁ brahmam etat. There are three Brahman conceptions: prakṛti is Brahman as the field of activities, and the jīva (individual soul) is also Brahman and is trying to control material nature, and the controller of both of them is also Brahman, but He is the factual controller."
Prabhupāda: Therefore, He is called Param Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman, but He is Param Brahman. That is accepted by Arjuna, paraṁ brahma paraṁ brahma pavitram.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in Vedic civilization they keep, they have more than one wife. So what is the use of killing? Why one should kill? We find from the history, Dhruva Mahārāja's mother and stepmother, there were some critical words, and Dhruva Mahārāja became very, very angry. So the critical words and wives, different wives, that may be, but why one should cut off the head? Dhruva Mahārāja's mother said when Dhruva Mahārāja began to cry before the mother, mother said "My dear child, what can I do? How can I help you? Your father does not care for me, even as maidservant, what to speak of I am queen, I am the senior queen. So this gentleman does not care of me even as maidservant. How can I help you? If God helps you, then..." That was her statement. So that does not mean because the king did not like, she should be beheaded. What is this nonsense? If he is,(?)... may be... After all, he is king. He may not like first wife. Actually, there was no scarcity of comfort, but liking may not be, but that does not mean that she shouldn't be accepted as wife. Kings were allowed to marry more than one wife. Why to accept another wife means another wife should be killed? What is this? Everything nonsense. King can marry more than one wife. And at the time of marriage they were given so many woman. Because the woman population is greater than the man, always. So when the King is married, along with the queen, many other friends of the queen they would go with the king. They live in the same palace, same palace. Sometimes they had children, dāsī-putra. Just like Vidura. Vidura was not queen's son. One of these women friends. So that was allowed.
Rūpānuga: Treated nicely.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not that because he is born of a dāsī no care should be taken. No, equal. But he cannot inherit the throne, that's all. There was no question. Even Muhammadans, they used to marry more than one wife. Two hundred years ago, one Muslim Nawab of Lucknow, Wazel Dusayet(?), he had hundred and sixty wives. The palaces are still there, Lucknow, hundred and sixty palaces. Why the Nawab? Our Kṛṣṇa, not hundred sixty but another zero, another, hundred sixty thousand, two zeros. Hundred sixty plus two zeros. They were not neglected. But He is God, He expanded Himself also, sixteen thousand forms, so that no wife would feel separation. So if one husband can maintain properly more than one wife, he's allowed. But the wife must be taken care of properly. Not that because I have got more than one wife, one is neglected, one is... No. She must be taken care of.
Prabhupāda: No, (indistinct). There is separate arrangement for management, but the idea and philosophy is the same. Ultimately, I am managing. I have my twenty secretaries, they are called GBC, they are assisting me to manage. Every GBC has got a certain number of temples to supervise, and ultimately, I supervise everything. Therefore I come occasionally, stay for few days to see how things are going on. I have got hundred temples, big, big temples, very nice. They have organized palatial buildings, but I cannot stay anywhere. (laughter)
Mr. Boyd: That's the trouble with being boss. If you don't do it, nobody else will.
Prabhupāda: As soon as I say, "Ah, it is very nice place," the time is over, they say "You please get out." (laughter and groans from devotees)
Mr. Boyd: The school in Vṛndāvana, is this, I assume this is to be out there in the yard that they were clearing. When do you anticipate that will be built?
Prabhupāda: When they clear the land, we are going to construct a nice building for the school. As soon as it is done, then we will organize. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān... (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of life, this Bhāgavata principle should be trained. That is perfect. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). They should be trained up how to read at the house of the spiritual master. They should be trained up how to control the senses, dānta. Dānta means to practice how to control the senses. That is the difference between human being and animal. Animal cannot be trained up how to control their senses. That is not possible. But a human being can be trained up to control his senses. The yoga practice is meant for controlling the sense. Yoga-indriya-saṁyamī. That is the real yoga practice, not that I indulge in sense gratification as I like, and I become a yogi. This is all bogus. This is not yoga. Yoga means how to control the senses.
Guest (4): Was that the policy when Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura ran the temple? I understand that he at one time was the main administrator. (loud crashing of thunder)
Prabhupāda: So you don't take simply Jagannātha temple. There are many other temples, they allow. It is a particular management body, they do not allow. But that is not the sanction of the śāstra. That is not the sanction. Suppose in your private house you make some private law. That is your business. But actually temple is open for everyone. That is stated. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Even one is born of low-grade family, he can accept. There is no injunction. That is śāstra. But there are rascals who do not follow. They have their own imagination. That is another thing. Kṛṣṇa never said that "Only the brāhmaṇas or Indians or Hindus can take shelter of Me." Kṛṣṇa never said. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ, whatever he may be. There is no restriction. Just like Ganges water, anyone can take bath. It is not that only a particular person or particular community can take bath. Anyone can take, and he becomes purified. There is an example, na hi harate jyotsnā candraś caṇḍāla veśmani.(?) When there is moonlight, there is no discrimination that here is a bhaṅgi's house, caṇḍāla's house, there should be no moonshine. The moonshine is open in the palace of the king or in the house of a caṇḍāla, na hi harate jyotsnā candraś caṇḍāla veśmani. So Kṛṣṇa's mercy is for everyone. It is not restricted to a certain community or class of people, no. Anyone can take advantage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that is, practically they are doing. Therefore in India, so they say that I am killing Hindu dharma, the Māyāvādīs, that Bhaktivedanta Swami hindu-dharma ka naṣṭa. This is their...
Dr. Sharma: That is not true.
Prabhupāda: But you have to qualify yourself.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To get there. But once getting there, I mean it's plainly visible to the eyes.
Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda gave the example that Arjuna, he was qualified, so that he went to Indraloka planet one time, and he saw with his eyes the cities, the palace of Indra.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he was tempted. Arjuna was tempted when he went to Indraloka. But he closed his eyes.
Prabhupāda: No, descriptions are there of Indraloka. The pavements with pearls.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow.
Prabhupāda: That is described, in the eighth chapter you'll find, er, Eighth Canto.
Rāmeśvara: In the Seventh Canto they described the palace of Indra, because Hiraṇyakaśipu had lived there. How he was living there, and the walls of his palace are studded with jewels. There's a nice description. What to speak of an ocean of milk, there's so many things they cannot imagine. (break) (walking)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The buses, you know the windows, some of the windows are broken a little bit—you saw them. Do you think they will look good in the parade? It's all right if the windows are not all...
Prabhupāda: Who is going to see? (break)
Hṛdayānanda: Great American paintings. What they consider to be great American paintings.
Hari-śauri: It's an art exhibition. (break)
Prabhupāda: In London they have got such a nice...
Rāmeśvara: You think one day, Prabhupāda, maybe these big buildings will be our temples?
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, our executive office.
Prabhupāda: No, that is happening. Sometimes I feel all right.
Hari-śauri: But then as soon as Prabhupāda does any activity, he immediately becomes exhausted, just to go downstairs.
Prabhupāda: Yesterday evening I was thinking, "Now I am feeling all right. Tomorrow I shall go for morning walk," like that. (laughs) That is due to my practice. So the palace is prepared now?
Bhagavān: First class. I think your quarters are the best. Very comfortable. Your bathroom is all redone. You have a nice separate bedroom, separate bathroom, and a very nice, almost this big. It is very sunny.
Prabhupāda: Sunny.
Bhagavān: Very sunny. All day long the sun.
Prabhupāda: It is alluring. (laughter)
Jayatīrtha: Yes, Bhagavān is trying to allure you, I think.
Bhagavān: And we are having Deity installation also. The Kṛṣṇa-Balarama Deity is there. They're very beautiful, extremely. And we have a new Vyāsāsana. I had it made in Italy with all marble, temple. Anyway...
Jayatīrtha: You can send him pictures in India. I was going to ask you, Srila Prabhupāda. If I wanted to install Gaura-Nitai Deities also, like the ones in Baltimore and this farm, here also, along with the Radha-Kṛṣṇa Deities, without two altars...
Prabhupāda: Here?
Jayatīrtha: Yes. Whether or not that's all right.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
George Harrison: It is full of gangs.
Prabhupāda: And we have got another palace, what is that village?
Jayatīrtha: South of Paris? That one?
Prabhupāda: No, France.
Jayatīrtha: Yes, south of Paris. It's near a place called Valancey. Very nice place.
Pradyumna: French chateau.
Mukunda: It's on about 250 acres.
George Harrison: Really?
Mukunda: Huge fields, beautiful place. Show you a picture of it.
George Harrison: Yes. So that's one of the goals now, one hundred and eight temples.
Jayatīrtha: Should be able to do it this year, I think.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayatīrtha: Should have a hundred and eight this year, I think.
Hari-śauri: Centers. One hundred and eight centers.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Bhagavān: In the Kṛṣṇa book you describe that in Kṛṣṇa's palace there were so many beautiful maidservants, but Rukmiṇī chose to fan Kṛṣṇa personally.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Still, in Indian family system, when the husband comes from office, the wife takes care immediately. Even in these days. That is, at least, a manifestation of faithfulness. (aside) No, don't bother. This has fallen.
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So how to?
Hari-śauri: Requires some steps or something.
Bhagavān: You go on walk tonight?
Prabhupāda: Why not?
Bhagavān: They can fix all your...
Hari-śauri: Someone can come in whilst we're gone.
Prabhupāda: The cucumber cutting, there is a process. I'll show you. Sometimes cucumber is bitter. By that process it can be avoided.
Devotee (4): What is this park?
Jñānagamya: It's called Niavaran Park. There's a palace here called Niavaran Palace. The Shah has several palaces. This is the one where he usually meets visiting diplomats, heads of state. And this is the park that adjoins that palace. The palace is over beyond that wall.
Nava-yauvana: Jaya, this is where he's getting off. (conversation continues outside car)
Ātreya Ṛṣi: This is His Majesty's palace. This building is the servants' quarters, which has the best granite. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...that this body which we are taking so much care, will leave automatically when the time is finished. And I'll have to accept another body. Useless. The body, which I am taking so much care, will leave me. I'll not have to say, "Body, you leave me," but the body will leave me. When my period... Just like the house rented under lease, and as soon as the lease is over you have to vacate that house, or forcibly the house owner will oblige you to vacate. So what is the use of becoming so much attached to the body? What is the answer?
Nava-yauvana: There is no use.
Prabhupāda: Every one of us, we are attached to the body, and on account of being attached to the body the material activities are going on. These motorcars are running, karmīs are going here and there, what is the purpose? To maintain the road? Divasa śarīra-sāje. Miche nida-baśe gelo re rāti divasa śarīra-sāje. The body is given rest at night to revive, and daytime the activities for the matter of maintaining the body. But despite my all endeavor to maintain this body, it will not stay. It will give up my company and I'll have to accept another. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So Bali Mahārāja says "What is the use of such endeavor?" Therefore big, big saintly persons, they do not care for the body. Lie down anywhere. But they are very serious about spiritual advancement. And people in general, they are interested in maintaining the body. It is not that we should be neglectful to the body. That example is also there. Just like we require fruits and flowers.
Prabhupāda: They cannot be. In India still you'll find hundreds and thousands of men are going to take bath in the Ganges in the morning. They might have only one cloth and one napkin. Still, they will take twice bath with the napkin, they change the cloth and wash it and spread it on the ground. By the time he finishes his bathing, the cloth is dry. That is India's advantage. And he puts some fresh cloth. And the napkin is also dry. And he'll become refreshed. And in his loṭā he'll take some water of the Ganges and he'll go home. In Vṛndāvana you'll find many thousands in the morning, with loṭā they go out, evacuate somewhere, and then wash hands, mouth, with cloth, taking bathing in the Ganges, Yamunā. Now they are polluting the Yamunā water, the government. In Vṛndāvana government is opening oil refinery, and people are being encouraged, "These are new temples." Everywhere people are being degraded. They have no tendency to become purified, God conscious, honest. Because they do not believe in the next birth. This garden belongs to the palace? No.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: It so-called belongs to the people, to the government. But here palace has a lot of influence.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the king must have. That is... Clean here.
Hari-śauri: No they're just looking. Probably the amount of cleaners that's been past, this should be the cleanest spot in the whole park by now. (Iranian men talking)
Iranian: Pustu.(?)
Prabhupāda: Tustu(?) language, tustu. This language resembles like that. This Irani language. (break) And they are claiming it is ours. Nobody has created anything. God has created for His pleasure. Everything is God's property, and they have made an unfavorable situation, "My property." Now here is a city, it is all right, there is no trouble. If I say it is my property and you say it is your property, then there is trouble. Then there is immigration department, "Why you are coming here?" Then the dogs barking, yow yow yow. This is going on as civilization. First of all, they claim God's property falsely their own, and they create a situation. And for this purpose the whole world is working, how to create a bad situation of proprietorship right on God's property, that's all.
Guest: ...you have seen today, that is worth two lakhs of dollars. In two lakhs of dollars you can have a palace in Iraq(??).
Prabhupāda: No, not palace...
Guest: But two lakhs here... You have to have all two lakhs completely in your hand before you can step into this house. All there with two lakhs, you step into the house, a palace or (indistinct) house.
Prabhupāda: Our Los Angeles temple, what we paid? Dayānanda, you know?
Dayānanda: It was 225, I think.
Prabhupāda: Oh, 225, hundred thousand.
Dayānanda: $225,000.
Guest: Two hundred and twenty-five thousand. That must be a gorgeous place. Beautiful, beautiful, huge.
Guest (2): Name must appear very large.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Guest: And what was the down payment for that?
Prabhupāda: I paid 50,000.
Guest: Fifty thousand. Here the down payment means the total payment. You have to pay everything.
Guest (2): And land is so small. Must be very small. Land is only two hundred and... (everyone talking at once)
Guest: But we expect that in one or two years' time the prices of land will come back to normal, or at least there will be some place available out of town at a reasonable price. When that happens, I think...
Ātreya Ṛṣi: I don't think that will happen.
Guest: (general discussion about land purchasing) But now, you know, people are taking advantage. The one who is selling now, he is going to America. He says, "Let me pack this two lakhs of dollars and go and buy in America." Why should (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: So American immigration?
Guest: Yes, he must have taken immigration. Then he is going to America. His son or daughter must be there. All Iranians have daughters and sons in America or Europe.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: To pass the examination, one must follow a strict, austere life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa, beginning tapasya, austerity. Brahmacarya, celibacy. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena (SB 6.1.13), controlling the senses, controlling the mind. Tyāgena, by renunciation. Satya-śaucābhyām, by following truthfulness and cleanliness. Yamena niyamena vā, by practicing yoga, yama-niyama. These are the different items of being qualified. But all these things can be done by one stroke, kevalayā bhaktyā, by engaging oneself in devotion, vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ.
- kecit kevalayā bhaktyā
- vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ
- aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena
- nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ
- (SB 6.1.15)
One becomes qualified by one stroke of bhakti to Vāsudeva. Just like the sunrise immediately dissipates the fog. Aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. In the Kali-yuga, this one item of bhakti can make one perfectly fit candidate to pass the examination. Aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. What is this nonsense life? There is no tapasya, no spiritual culture, simply like cats and dogs. Last night I was reading. Vāmanadeva created a planet, Sutala, in which Viśvakarmā was ordered to construct big, big houses, palaces, better than in the heavenly planet. And these rascals are going and seeing simply rocks and sand. And what about these palaces and...?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: In Koran it is described that there is a very dangerous bridge that one has to pass.
Prabhupāda: This is described in the Vedas, Vaitaraṇī, cross from the material to the spiritual world.
Mr. Sahani: The price of land here in Tehran is five times what it is in New York.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? (laughter)
Mrs. Sahani: Highest, most highest in the world, next to probably Tokyo.
Mr. Sahani: The house which you have seen today is worth two lakhs of dollars. In two lakhs of dollars you can have palace in America.
Prabhupāda: No, not that...
Mr. Sahani: But two lakhs here, you have to have all two lakhs completely in your hand before you can step into this house. Over there with two lakhs you step into the house, a palace of one million dollars.
Prabhupāda: Our Los Angeles temple, what we paid? Dayānanda, you know?
Dayānanda: It was two twenty-five, I think. 225,000 dollars.
Prabhupāda: 225,000.
Dayānanda: 225,000.
Mr. Sahani: 225,000. But it must be a gorgeous place. Beautiful.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: In Durban, I think.
Hari-śauri: In Bombay we made the last one.
Harikeśa: No, that big batch last I made in Sanand. When you went to that Sanand above Ahmedabad, where that king had his palace, we stayed in that palace. That's when I made that big batch. But first it was developed in Durban.
Prabhupāda: Durban, yes. Because there was no possibility of using (indistinct-word for stick toothbrush). My teeth broken, and it became painful, it was not working. Therefore I invented. But it is effective.
Harikeśa: You said on account of this toothpaste... Your teeth were so rotten they want to fall out, but the toothpaste won't allow them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, actually my teeth have gone all bad. It is useless. But on account of this toothpaste it is still working. (laughs) Otherwise, according to dental science, it has to be extracted. It is no other remedy. If you go to a dentist, immediately he will say, "Extract all this and have a new set, artificial." That is, I know that. But I don't want to extract. As far as possible, use them and let them fall out automatically, as they have already fallen out so many. Fifty percent already fallen out, and twenty-five percent are shaking, and still I am eating. Otherwise, according to the dental science, I should not eat any salt. In Bengal there is a word that when teeth is rot, then your eating is gone. You cannot digest, you cannot eat. It is not... If the foodstuff is not properly chewed, it causes digestive disturbance. And digestive disturbance means so many diseases. This coughing is due to digestive disturbance. I know that.
Prabhupāda: ...not Paris. Paris we have got rented. What is the?
Devotee: It's a hundred miles away from Paris(?).
Prabhupāda: It is a big name. What...?
Hari-śauri: Lucay de La Male.
Prabhupāda: The interior, near Orleans. So we have got very nice, beautiful palace. We have installed Gaura-Nitāi and Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.
Indian man: (Hindi) Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.
Prabhupāda: Ha. Four hundred acres land, we are producing our vegetables, vegetables, fruits, and food grains, milk, and two hundred devotees, they are living very happily. (converses in Hindi) It is, for health it is very nice.
Jayapatākā: When I was traveling in Burdwan, there we saw the big palace of Maharaja of Burdwan
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: Gigantic. He has given that to the university. Then we did a kīrtana at his... He has one temple of Rādhā-kānta. That's present ācārya is about a twenty-two-year old boy. He's in the sampradāya of Nimbārka Svāmī. So he doesn't know anything about, very much about spiritual life, although he is following the tradition. That's such a vast... That building is vast. I can't explain to you how big that is. It's at least five times bigger than our building in all ways, and... It is a huge compound. He has got much land in the name of the Deity. So he's becoming a member because he wants to read your books to understand about Lord Caitanya and spiritual...
Prabhupāda: Now for making member you should be very clear so that no misunderstanding takes place. Books, we shall give five books.
Gargamuni: Yes, that...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: On my form I have already printed we give five books.
Prabhupāda: "When you finish, you return this; you take another. When you finish that..." In this way.
Prabhupāda: Shower, yes. Oh, it is very pleasing. So this place is very nice.
Caraṇāravindam: You like this...
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. You have got idea. You have all done nice. Nobody (laughs) got this idea. You have done nice.
Caraṇāravindam: I wanted to make you a beautiful palace.
Prabhupāda: You can fix up a little fan, then this labor can be saved.
Caraṇāravindam: You would like electric fan or hand pulled. Hand pulled?
Prabhupāda: No no, electric. A small table fan. Just like in the railway carriage. Let them fix up. Small ceiling fan.
Hari-śauri: You can get very small ones that fasten on the front of motor cars on the inside for fanning the driver. Just a small unit.
Caraṇāravindam: I was wanting to, in the future, build you a very beautiful construction here.
Prabhupāda: No, it is all right.
Akṣayānanda: Spoiled. Spoiled brat.
Prabhupāda: Because he gets money. One who has got money but no children, he takes some adopted son. So the adopted son thinks that "I have got so much money," and he has never worked. He is spoiled. I have seen many adopted son, our... Got lakhs and lakhs of rupees, and in one night he's spoiled everything. Simply after woman and wine. I have seen it. There was one gentleman, Narendranath Singh. Very big, palatial building and very rich man. And I have seen him when he was finished. He was friend of big, big person, Raja Maharlel (?). And one day I saw in Calcutta, there was raining and he was sitting in a rickshaw. And no friend. He had known practically all big men of Calcutta friend. Nobody is coming. "Well Narendra, you are sitting. Come on in my car." Nobody. I was (indistinct). And he was drenching, there was heavy rain. And sitting a... And he was keeping Rolls Royce car.
Prabhupāda: This is kṣatriya. Now, who is kṣatriya? A fourth-class man, he never seen battlefield and by vote he becomes president. And here kṣatriya means yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. If there is fight he must come forward first of all. He is in his palace, and he's engaging common men, "Go and fight." When there was Battle of Kurukṣetra Arjuna and Duryodhana, they came first. Because the battle was decided as soon as the leader is dead. No more fight. So they used to come first. This is kṣatriya. Where is that kṣatriya? And they are becoming politicians simply by votes, all third-class, fourth-class men. What he'll do? Everyone is trying to keep his position by hook and crook. How he'll think of the people? How they will be happy? He is thinking of his own happiness. And these are politicians. There is no kṣatriya. There is no brāhmaṇa. And there is no vaiśya. What is the vaiśya?
Prabhupāda: He does not know. We have got the definition of God,
- aiśvaryasya samāgrasya
- vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ
- jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva
- ṣaṇṇaṁ bhāga itiṅgaṇa
- (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)
Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya, that one who is in possession of all the wealth, vīryasya all strength, all faith yaśasaḥ, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation, that is God. Now so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, He showed all these things. Aiśvaryasya... For example Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives and for each wife a different palace. And for each wife ten sons. Woman requires very nice accommodation, sons, husband, that is their ambition that He fulfilled, although he married sixteen thousand one hundred and eight wives. This is aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya. This so-called rascal Bhagavān, who has shown this? Why shall I accept this cheap god? Show me something that you are God. Seven years old Kṛṣṇa, He lifted the Govardhana hill. (Hindi) There is, but they have no knowledge to compare with the idea of God. So far knowledge is concerned, Bhagavad-gītā, left by Kṛṣṇa, it is adored all over the world. Especially nowadays we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and millions of copies we are selling. Now we are advertising, where is that picture? Million, 1.5 million.
Prabhupāda: Oh, his daughter came there.
Akṣayānanda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Daughter or granddaughter.
Akṣayānanda: Something like that, yes. He was talking about...
Prabhupāda: When I first came in Vṛndāvana I stayed in the Keśī-ghāṭa. That is very palatial building. My room was as big as this. Yes, as big. Plus one side room, plus one entrance room. I was paying fifteen rupees. And I could see whole Vṛndāvana, Yamunā, from the top my house. It is very nice, very palatial.
Hari-śauri: That's in the big building on the, right on the side of the ghāṭa?
Prabhupāda: Which gate?
Hari-śauri: That's in the big building right on the side of Keśī-ghāṭa?
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: Nārada Muni knew it that He is Supreme Lord, but he did not check it.
Mr. Malhotra: He let Lord Kṛṣṇa bow. This is the biggest paradox.
Prabhupāda: Mad-bhakta-pūjābhyadhika (SB 11.19.21). Kṛṣṇa is pleased when His devotee is worshiped. (Hindi)
Mr. Malhotra: When I went to Dvārakā Purī, so there is Bheda Dvārakā in the sea. One is Dvārakā Purī, then about I think 10, 12 miles away there is Bheda Dvārakā. At Bheda Dvārakā, that is the residential palace of Lord Kṛṣṇa. And seven rāṇīs of Lord Kṛṣṇa. They show each building, their whole building. So what was that?
Prabhupāda: He had 16,108 queens.
Mr. Malhotra: 16,108 queens. But there they show I think only 8 or 7.
Prabhupāda: All are described, that he had 16,000 palaces. And Nārada Muni came to see Him, what He is doing actually. He saw different activities, and Kṛṣṇa expanded Himself to 16,108. Each rāṇī had 10 sons, and they had sons also. In this way the Yadu-vaṁśa was crores.
Mr. Malhotra: There was one story that Lord Kṛṣṇa was going en route and then He had to be at the place of—at Virāṭa because of some śraddhā of some muni. That is (Hindi) (break) So we get frustrated, but where the first apple came. Where is seed of first apple planted on this earth planet?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Kṛṣṇa answers this question. Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām. I am the original seed of everything.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Ah! Tamasa... "Don't remain in the darkness; come to the light." So this is the Vedic injunction. But we don't take advantage of the instruction. We think that "If I can make one table from a ordinary wooden plank, that is advancement." This is technology. This nice polished table is a transformation of the crude wooden plank. So if a crude wooden plank is transferred into nice table, we see: "Oh, this is advancement." What is actual benefit? I can do without this table. But we have taken: "This is advancement. Transforming the form of an element into another, that is advancement." So asate vilāsa. This is asat, this wood, either in crude form or in transferred form. So I am taking credit because a crude wood has been turned into a table. So that is my vilāsa. So sat saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. So I am now bound up. I can become a very nice carpenter. Does it mean that I am self-realized? If you have learned the art of turning crude wood into a table, nice table, you may get the credit of becoming a nice carpenter; that does not mean you are self-realized. They are taking credit of this turning crude wood into nice table, and they're thinking that "Our life is successful." This is going on. And the real technology, that "I am not this body; I have been put into this condition, and I am transmigrating from one body to another"—there is no such knowledge. For the temporary.... (break) ...temporary thing, flickering thing, like children. Children is very busy on the beach, making sand palaces, and he's very happy. So our position is like that. But we should be intelligent enough that "There is our real life, permanent life, not this temporary life," that "This life is temporary. There is another life." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "This śarīra is not..." Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. So many things.... The Bhagavad-gītā is full of information, but we don't take advantage. We are so unfortunate. And it is our country. This is Indian culture. We have given up this. (Hindi) Gandhiji, he was supposed to be a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. And the such a big āśrama, Sevagrama. Where is Bhagavad-gītā arcana? Boliye.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They make God under his condition. That is not God. God cannot be under your condition.
Hari-śauri: God cannot have sixteen thousand wives. God cannot appear at all.
Rāmeśvara: They say that if God had all of these things, then He would have revealed them in the Bible.
Prabhupāda: Because you cannot, rascal, manage that. That is the difference between him and God. Kṛṣṇa had sixteen thousand wives and sixteen thousand palaces. You cannot maintain one apartment.
Rāmeśvara: In the Bible...
Prabhupāda: You tell them like that: "You are so poor that you are afraid to maintain even one wife. So how you can be equal with God?"
Hari-śauri: His argument was that...
Prabhupāda: No argument! This is fact!
Rāmeśvara: Yes, this is fact.
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is no question of argument.
Prabhupāda: (break) Because there are many fanatics. Hm?
Hari-śauri: Through America it's full of persecutors.(?) These people are very, very hateful towards our men. Europe is all right. Europe...
Prabhupāda: Europe? Germany...
Hari-śauri: Germany is bad.(?)
Jagadīśa: North America would be... South America?
Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, if you did come to America, the best idea is if you went to a farm like the New York farm and just made that your headquarters. And the devotees could visit. They could come and see you. Otherwise, the country in Pennsylvania is very beautiful in the spring and the summer, very peaceful.
Hari-śauri: New Vrindaban you could go when the palace is done.
Prabhupāda: Thieves, rogues and plunderers. That's all.
Hari-śauri: Detroit has the highest murder rate in the world, 'cause all the city population is black.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we could purchase that palace which costs six million dollars fifty years ago. And we have got for three hundred thousand. Why? Nobody was purchasing. Who will go to purchase there? I took it. "Yes it is..." I offered him... He was asking 350,000. So I told him, "I'll pay you cash, all three hundred." He immediately agreed. (laughs) I should have offered him less. He would have agreed. Nobody was purchasing.
Hari-śauri: Yes, we could have got it for half...
Prabhupāda: So he immediately agreed. Anyway, that's a very nice place. You have seen?
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Very nice place, unique palace.
Hari-śauri: Yes, a very good center.
Prabhupāda: That is the... That is in the via media. The real trouble is there—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Now if you can make change... Suppose you are now a dog. You can become a man. But that is not solution. Or you are man; you can become a demigod. Karma. But that does not make solution! Either you become demigod or man or dog or cat or insect, you must have these tribulations, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). That is God's challenge. You first of all make solution. But you are eternal. Why you are in this condition? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You... That means you are eternally suffering, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), simply changing the position. But suffering's there. So you are taking credit by little change of the position. And that is your foolishness. And God challenges you, "You make solution of these things." Why little change? Suppose I am... I have got so many centers. Sometimes I live in the palace, other times a cottage. So this is change of position. But I am the same man. So whatever comfort or discomfort is there in that you France palace, the same comfort and discomfort is in this cottage. But if I think, "Now I am in the France palace, or Bhaktivedanta Manor palace. I am happy," that is foolishness. They are doing that. You are eating something bitter. So it is in the iron pot. You are thinking, "If I put it in the golden pot, it will be nice." That is your foolishness. The taste, either you put in the golden pot or iron pot or in the floor, the taste is the same. So our taste is this eating sleeping, sex and defense. So that is going on.
Prabhupāda: So let us go, our whole party.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to stay in Bombay, stay until the... Is there any date until?
Prabhupāda: I don't want to stay anywhere. I want work.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there's work everywhere. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Staying, I have stayed big, big palaces, big, big cities. That is now complete. I have no other desire.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long do you want to work in Bombay? I mean, till...
Prabhupāda: So long there is work. There is no end of it. Our Bombay should be organized. Work is our life. There is no question of "How long?" As long as possible. Kṛṣṇa giving us good opportunities. Now we should take it seriously. It is not joke. "Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is bona fide religion."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that will be...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very important.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, especially in the United States.
Prabhupāda: New York high-court decision.
Prabhupāda: Yes, your son will be able to answer all questions. Like Devahūti, you can take instruction from your son. That is in the history. Son is instructing mother. Generally mother instructs the son, but there is that history son is instructing mother. Because here we make such relationship—mother, father, son, daughter, relative. Actually this is material nature made, in different bodies. Otherwise, real father is Kṛṣṇa. (devotees exclaim—lights go out?) This is the benefit of modern science, (laughter) (Prabhupāda laughs) that in the evening you require light—there is no light in the evening. When you require, there is no light. Better depend on the natural oil.
Bhāgavata: In Satya-yuga or Tretā-yuga they would not drill for petrol to use to make electricity or to make these gas lamps, so by what means did they use to light the palaces and the kingdoms? What was the natural resource utilized for that purpose?
Prabhupāda: This oil. You produce castor seed oil. You grow castor seed by agricultural.
Bhāgavata: Grow cas...?
Prabhupāda: Castor seed.
Bhāgavata: Castor seed.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and you get sufficient oil.
Prabhupāda: Very good intelligence.
Cāru: This has all the significant temples of India, and just included in there is the ISKCON temples. Right as they come in the front door is a very nice cultural exhibit.
Prabhupāda: Increase more temples. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) As many towns, as many villages. At least as many towns, and then push through the villages. What is your news about our palace in France? I am asking you, Bhūgarbha.
Bhūgarbha: Chateau palace in France?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Is it going nice?
Bhūgarbha: It is going on. I haven't been to the palace.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Bhūgarbha: I go to the Paris temple.
Prabhupāda: So it is very nice temple.
Trivikrama: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you designed?
Hari-śauri: No. That's not her. It's another one. We're just getting the ghee.
Brahmānanda: She has brought some ghee.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What is this, 3.92?
Hari-śauri: So he's like a semi-transparent Lord Śiva.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Rāmeśvara: Now, at the time he was taking this prasāda, would he be sitting in his palace room on his throne or...? We were thinking that in his dining room.
Prabhupāda: No, dining room.
Rāmeśvara: There should be a dining room. Then the last painting for the volume is from the twenty-fourth chapter, just the last few verses describing the appearance of Kṛṣṇa. It describes...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: ...how Kṛṣṇa and the cowherd boys would enter the forest, and the gopīs would be thinking that Kṛṣṇa's feet are walking on hard rocks. So this is just a very simple sketch to show the idea. They're entering the forest, and the gopīs are standing by the houses, watching.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Prabhupāda: If required, we shall appoint professional man and keep everything very vigilant; things are going. Otherwise, once bad reputation—finished, so much attempt.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our Mr. Chagriya should be able to give a lot of guidance and advice. I spoke with him a few years ago.
Prabhupāda: But he did not. Theoretical.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has those hotels, Sea Palace Hotel. Svarūpa Dāmodara still has not come.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no hope of going to Manipur.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because of this delay of his coming?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are opposing. Intelligent men, they are seeing that This movement will finish our civilization. They are afraid. They have already said, "It is increasing like epidemic, and if we don't check them, within ten years they'll take the government."
Hari-śauri: A government official in Houston said it on the TV.
Bali-mardana: They are afraid for their lives.
Prabhupāda: So I am very much attached to that palace.
Bhagavān: We are very much attached to you.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Come on. Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. Jaya. very nice. (someone showing pictures?) Jaya Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. We have got Balarāma, the most powerful being, so we have no fear. Balarāma. Nāyam ātmā bala-hīnena labhyaḥ. Bala-hīnena labhyaḥ.(?) "One who is not supported by Balarāma, he cannot understand, cannot come to the spiritual platform." Na medhayā na bahunā śrutena.(?) By intelligence one cannot. He must be supported by Balarāma, big brother of Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: But you... For me you make good arrangement wherever I live, that's all. But I know how you were living in that nasty hut, full of dirty things, mosquito, rats, dropping of water. And Nyer is attacking, municipality attacking.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You always said that we were so trained that we would even live on the roadside.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That you are trained. (laughs) You don't care for this palace or underneath a tree.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Formerly we were living like that as hippies, and now we live like that to serve you.
Prabhupāda: I was living in Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. It was not a palace. But before that, I was living in a palace. That is Keśī-ghāṭa. But this Gosāi called me that "You live here?" And "All right." Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī's, er, yes, Jīva Gosvāmī's place. "Let me go there." Now organize. Make very good plan that our Bombay temple will be always crowded with thousands of men and some program must go on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned the other day that five hundred devotees should always be there.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We have got place.
Pañcadraviḍa: Bombay?
Prabhupāda: We have got place. All right.
Prabhupāda: I think I haven't got such place to live anywhere in the world.
Gargamuni: It's actually your own building.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This apartment is the best actually.
Prabhupāda: Los Angeles and in New York, big, big cities they are—London, Paris. But nobody can present such luxurious royal palace.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The drama was very appreciated last night. Samayadi was watching it with us, and he said he would like to arrange a big program in his house.
Prabhupāda: Old Samayadi or his son?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: His son. He liked the drama very much.
Lokanātha: It has become one of the main attractions of the public, this Vaikuṇṭha Player performance(?). After..., two nights after the program, I inquired from the public on the microphone, "Do you like this drama?" Immediately everybody raised their hands: "Yes!"
Prabhupāda: They were asking me whether they are professional men. "No, no, these all my disciples."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are not putting yourself on that higher seat. You are putting Lord Jagannātha there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore that analogy is failure.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I thought you would like to see that brochure from those rascals. I mean, I brought it to your attention because I knew that you were here.(?)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...the whole world much nicer building, palaces, and...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nicer building?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Detroit?
Prabhupāda: London, Bhaktivedanta Manor, they are nicer buildings. But if you cannot open these doors of the building, oh, immediately collapse...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's true.
Prabhupāda: You have to remain packed up.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (3): "Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, whose enemy was never born, performed his daily morning duties by praying, offering fire sacrifice to the sun-god, and offering obeisances, grains, cows, land and gold to the brāhmaṇas. He then entered the palace to pay respects to the elderly. However, he could not find his uncles or aunt, the daughter of King Subala." Should I read the purport?
Prabhupāda: No. What is the śloka?
Devotee:
- ajāta-śatruḥ kṛta-maitro hutāgnir
- viprān natvā tila-go-bhūmi-rukmaiḥ...
Prabhupāda: No, the śloka is, beginning is sarva-dughā mahī, like that. Parjanyaḥ... (pause) Ah. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ sarva-kāma-dughā mahī (SB 1.10.4). Find out this verse.
Girirāja: I can find it.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Girirāja: About how the... There's one... No, 1.2
Prabhupāda: This is the verse, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ sarva-kāma-dughā mahī (SB 1.10.4). (Hindi) So vast knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Complete failure. Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam: (BG 8.15) "It is a place for suffering." This rascal wanted to make it for enjoyment. Everyone is trying. Everyone is trying to make the commode a very nice room.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) That's a pithy saying. Actually you remember that... In your Devasādana, in your Detroit palace, that toilet, the commode there, is better than any man's house in India practically.
Prabhupāda: Very difficult to deal with the people of this world. They are so nasty. They can do anything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not at all civilized.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're like animals.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That goes for all over the world.
Prabhupāda: Don't go to the city. That is my determination. The hellish city. In city nobody has got the opportunity for living in such comfortable place. It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy that we have got. Otherwise if you go to the Bombay city, even here, these pigeon holes, three small rooms... It is not expected that everyone will be able to live in such palatial building. That is not possible. Even they have no bathroom in Bombay. In the room, in the corner, there is a tap, and you have to go to the public well, latrine. This is the system. So whole family will take advantage of the corner tap and then have to go to public latrine. There is no bathroom.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No sewer system?
Prabhupāda: No, sewer system. (break) ...each toilet for fifty men. They are in line in the same building. One after another you get chance. You have got dysentery, then it is... Then you...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have to take a bucket.
Prabhupāda: So nasty. You come here. (break) Vivekananda, so on, so on, so on, so on... If I had been in political power, I would have killed.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Jhansi climate was nice.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Acharya Prabhakar tells me stories of his staying with you. He stayed with you for two years, he says.
Prabhupāda: He arranged for a very palatial building, yes.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He says you would make him listen to your writings. Sometimes you would write all night, I think he told me. I spoke to him on the phone when I was at Vele(?). He sends you his daṇḍavats. He says he's ready to move in when the Vṛndāvana gurukula is ready. He says he'll move to Vṛndāvana and do whatever you want him to do in the gurukula.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Mohatta, he also passed through Shivapuri. So he... When I told him there were some woods, some forests, he said, "Oh, then it must be Shivapuri." I said, "How did you know that?" He said, "Because of all the pla... That is the only place where there's even a little bit of forests." He said, "It is not much forest, but there is something." He said, "Otherwise, Madhya Pradesh is generally very dry, but the Shivapuri district..."
Prabhupāda: Hm, Shivapuri.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) For this.
Guest (3): He is the greatest guru of the age.
Devotees: Jaya!
Ātreya Ṛṣi: In Iran, in the courts, the prince and princes are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, in the court, in the palace.
Guest (3): Śrī Gaurāṅga's incarnation on his tongue.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I have both, that one from London and New York.
Prabhupāda: That London is shorter.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our Ambarīṣa, he was very much eager. "Oh, don't mind. Take it. We shall arrange."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cash.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Fifty years ago the cost was six million dollars, and we have purchased, only 300,000.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the condition is not deteriorated.
Prabhupāda: Oh, it is very first class, palatial building. You have seen?
Gargamuni: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I've seen photos.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Deva-sādana, you gave the name.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You gave the name Deva-sādana.
Prabhupāda: Very, very nice. Better than our France palace.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's 1400 ounces gold in the ceilings.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Jayatīrtha is now.
Prabhupāda: Jagadīśa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jagadīśa.
Prabhupāda: He made some profit. Actually the boat belonged to the house. Anyway, palace is palace. Very big, big rooms. Now it would have cost ten million dollars. And we have paid only three percent of ten million. Is it not? Three hundred thousand?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Govardhana wants to have dolls on the outside grounds.
Prabhupāda: Do. Yes, very good. You do.
Rāmeśvara: 'Cause they have so much lands, so right outside the temple there'll be doll exhibits for all the tourists.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And if required, one man can take care of more than one wife because woman population is greater.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. And some boys want to remain brahmacārī. So naturally there's fewer men for women.
Prabhupāda: And those who are able, you can keep more than one wife. Just see Kṛṣṇa-sixteen thousand wives. God. That is God. Come on, if there is anyone to compete. Sixteen thousand palaces, sixteen thousands wives, each wife, ten sons. That is God.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one is equal to or greater than Him.
Prabhupāda: All queens are happy. Whatever she desires from husband... Satyabhāmā... And Kṛṣṇa went to the heaven and brought the pārijāta flower to satisfy. This is husband. Wife has asked for something: "All right."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He even had to fight.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is husband's duty. She has dedicated her everything to the husband, and husband must see that she is comfortable. This is husband. She must have children, she must have good house, good eating, good clothing, good ornament. Then she is satisfied. They want these things. A woman does not mind very much, "My husband has got more than one wife." If she gets all the comforts of her wishes, some children and some comforts, then she is... She does not grudge because woman knows man's psychology. A man is not satisfied with one woman. So he must be given that. But she must be chaste. She cannot have more than... Then their relation is all right. If the woman allows husband—"He likes. Let him have more than one woman, but I must be chaste"—this... Our civilization is nowhere, Vedic culture.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. (break) I think they have suffered, regularly living with rats.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Calcutta and Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Poor quarter. Still they are happy. The rats are jumping over your body.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sounds like Hare Kṛṣṇa Land, Juhu.
Prabhupāda: Yes, with one palace(?).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were telling me that there was one man who was living in a house. The roof was coming down, and it was raining, and he wouldn't leave. Some worker.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. It is a different type of civilization, to become sanctified and Kṛṣṇa conscious. Other things are not very important. If it is possible to rectify him, don't bother about this. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Increase this qualification.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We find that to increase fasting on Ekādaśī day makes that new (indistinct) come like anything.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Or you can read. No harm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She says, "Our most revered Guru Mahārāja, my crores of charan and vandana at the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa and at the lotus feet of our revered Guruji. When you were here we could not have your darshan due to your illness, and after that, you left Bombay and went to Vṛndāvana. We prayed to Lord Kṛṣṇa for your life, and our Lord Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He again heard our prayers, and now you are better. We are informed by the devotees that Guru Mahārāja is better. May Lord Kṛṣṇa give you a long life, happiness and good health and your stay with us for a few more years. We were in dark, and you have enlightened our life and taught us real religion. You shower your blessings on us. I always feel your presence near me always in the heart. We want you. Your life is very essential for us. Kindly, Guru Mahārāja, take care of your health. We believe in both prayer and medicines, so kindly do not neglect yourself. Your dream of Bombay ISKCON temple has come true. It is just like Kṛṣṇa's palace in Dvārakā. It is a top building, a jewel and (indistinct). Now I close my letter with my prayers for your good health. Your faithful devotee, Nirmala Singol."
Prabhupāda: You reply that I am progressing little.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "What is this? Why so low?" (laughs) I was...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Paper house. You were living in a paper house.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I was feeling very uncomfortable.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Insecure in that position. Everyone was cooking nasty things.
Prabhupāda: Within this house, within this room, a palace is made in Japan.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was there for quite a while, Śatadhanya Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: With Trivikrama Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: Very short places. Park, (laughs) a nonsense park. A rough hill is a park. You remember?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Um hm.
Prabhupāda: All ordinary huts, general people.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've all given our..., that position up. We were all coming from money, but now we don't have any personal money, but we're millions of times happier.
Śatadhanya: And we don't lack any material benefit. We have spiritual and material.
Prabhupāda: Who can live in such house? Royal. Royal palace. We have 102 royal palaces. More than that. So even from economic point of view nobody is happier than us. Nobody is happier.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That New York building cost over one million dollars.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you go I shall give you chance to see how my devotees are living happy in big, big houses. Big, big house. Do you think to possess a twelve-story house in New York is joke?
Vrindavan De: Even I cannot think of.
Prabhupāda: Is joke? We have got. In Detroit we have got a house which was constructed at the cost of six million dollars, fifty years ago. What is the price six million dollars?
Vrindavan De: Sixty lakhs.
Prabhupāda: In London my sitting room is bigger than this, double. My sleeping room is like this. And my toilet room is half this. This is my quarters.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have so many places that you cannot visit them all in a year.
Prabhupāda: In everywhere. I have got now 120 places, palaces.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And each place with fifty to one hundred servants.
Prabhupāda: Yes... So happiness, unless Kṛṣṇa gives, there is no question of happiness. Our business should be that we may not be uncomfortably living which will disturb our progress of Kṛṣṇa consciousness—that much. Other things? Depend on Kṛṣṇa. If He wants to make you Indra, you become Indra. There is no happiness even by becoming Indra. You... We read from books. Indra is how much disturbed, always fighting, devāsura. He has to fight. The same thing as here. Only difference is the standard of living in the heaven and the duration of life are greater. But if you have to struggle for existence, then what is the use of this duration of life, greater? Simply struggling, where is happiness? So in different planets, in different species of life... I see at night these small bugs. They have got the same happiness. The husband and wife or the male and female together, jumping and having sex, and everything in a different body. And same thing is going on in higher planetary system. There is no other business. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam: eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. But breath must be there. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). So one who is intelligent: "So here is unhappiness. Why I'll have to die?" And that can be solved only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other.
Prabhupāda: Solve this problem. And don't be poverty-stricken. That's all. That is happiness. There is no need of... So we, the members of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are living hundred times happily than anyone else, hundred times. They cannot dream. They are envious. In Los Angeles the neighborhood men, they're envious, that "These people, these devotees, they do not do anything, and they are living so comfortably—so many cars, nice palace, nice food." They inquire. They do not know. Don't expect in that way happiness. That is futile, that "Our father will leave lakhs of rupees and we shall get the interest and enjoy and then drink and go on." That is not happiness. Work hard how to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy in this way. Kṛṣṇa will give. And yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). He knows what is your need. Depend on Kṛṣṇa, but don't sit down like lazy. Yudhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). This is instruction. We are trying to teach the whole world that "Be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and keep your status quo very nicely without any being poverty-stricken, and that is happiness." That is happiness. And so far the bodily disadvantages, so as soon as you get this material body, you'll have to... You have to die. You have to suffer from disease. You have to take birth. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā. So therefore śāstra says, that verse, that "Don't be attached to karma-kāṇḍa, fruitive activities." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam. "By karma-kāṇḍa you can get better body, but that will not solve your problem." Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). This body is temporary, but so long you have got this body, you have to suffer, this way or that way. So this is your real unhappiness, to get this material. Kleśada. Kleśada means always giving trouble. From the childhood they are crying. He has got some kleśa. The mother cannot understand. He's crying.
Prabhupāda: They printed in their own press.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Very good advancement. What is this?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "Āśrama Stems." It's describing the construction of your palace. And here's a picture of the two śālagrāmas which they now worship. Look how elaborate!
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrī Hiraṇyagarbha and Śrī Sudarśana in jeweled thrones. This is making the top of the domes. On your Palace there's... The top domes have lotus petals coming under them. So over that will go the domes. This is very big. The devotees are making the whole thing themselves. This shows devotees. See, this is a form, and into this form they'll pour concrete and other things and make shapes like these lotus petals. It's all hand done. "The Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement." This is pictures of saṅkīrtana in Pittsburgh and Wheeling, West Virginia. "Iṣṭagoṣṭhi: Questions and answers discussed between His Holiness Kīrtanānanda Swami and members and guests of New Vrindaban." "Cow-Kathā." (laughter) Like kṛṣṇa-kathā, cow-kathā. "Seeking Refuge from the Kali-yuga." This is from your old Back to Godheads. I remember in the first printings in America this appeared-Nārada-Bhakti-Sūtra. This boy writes an article every week—"Deep in the Woods." He's the woodman there, wood cutter. He tells about different... He relates it to the śāstra. "Color photographs available of Rādhā-Vṛndāvana-candra." They send it in the mail, "Non-profit organization, US Postage Paid." So it goes in the mail just like this. Very nice. I think it's time for your massage, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: I'll take.
Prabhupāda: At least in London, in Hawaii, then... What is called?
Devotee (2): Washington?
Prabhupāda: No, the palace.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: France. Germany.
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have so many palaces we don't know which one you mean. Oh, Detroit.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good place for it, Detroit. They're planning a big one in Washington, D.C.
Prabhupāda: Do it first. In Hawaii the Deities are made of paper combination?
Gurukṛpā: Now Bharadvāja is making like this.
Prabhupāda: Oh, very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja has just arrived.
Prabhupāda: There is nothing lamentable. What is the special news from New Vrindaban?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the report from New Vrindaban?
Kīrtanānanda: Everything is going very nice, Prabhupāda. Your palace is almost finished. Already many, many people are coming every day to see it. At least thirty a day are coming just to see your palace now, and it's not even finished. But it will be finished in a couple of months. People are talking... One lady the other day, she went in and she turned to one of the boys and she said, "I cannot tell you what I am feeling. It is so wonderful. I just cannot express it."
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is wonderful in that quarter. Hm. Let us see which palace I am going. (break)
Abhirāma: He just went for getting your water, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: I want to take little rest.
Prabhupāda: Silver thread.
Kulādri: Yes. Also there is some jewelry for you. We have taken some of the onyx from your palace and put some precious stones and made a little jewelry box. And here's one ring one of the girls... Sapphire, star sapphire ring on gold.
Upendra: All made by the devotees?
Kulādri: Made by devotees, yes. The box is also made by devotees. This is onyx from your palace with gold trim. This they have also made. This is a medallion made with sapphire and rubies on gold. The devotees have also made this. Here's some rubies and emeralds and opals.
Prabhupāda: So, why don't you find out some bride? (laughter)
Upendra: The handwork, everything...
Kulādri: Everything is done by devotees in New Vrindaban. And here's a new set of clothes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, silk clothes.
Prabhupāda: So this will be... At least this one will be given to Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. So who will take care of?
Kulādri: Yes, should be taken care of. Or it can sit on the altar, Śrīla Prabhupāda? The box is here. It is also jewelry. It can sit on the altar at Their feet?
Upendra: No, "Who takes care that someone...?" They have one safe, almirah, for the jewelry, small.
Kulādri: No, this one you're wearing is... Just this. He had one request. Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja asked me... He said you asked us to pray to Kṛṣṇa before, he said, but he doesn't feel qualified to pray to Kṛṣṇa. But he asked that you please pray to Kṛṣṇa for us, because we cannot pray to Kṛṣṇa directly. We don't know Kṛṣṇa. But if you ask Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa must be sure to fulfill your desire. So would you please pray to Kṛṣṇa to stay with us? 'Cause you're His pure devotee, Kṛṣṇa will certainly grant what you pray for. So on our behalf... I think He must want you to come to the palace, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if it is possible.
Prabhupāda: I wish...
Kulādri: You wish? Then come at once. I think that will make Him very happy.
Prabhupāda: But unless I become little strong, how can I go?
Kulādri: Hm. So we've also brought some sweets and ice cream, but just now is not so good for you to take it. The ice cream is not so good for you to take just now, so shall we keep it for you?
Prabhupāda: Distribute.
Kulādri: You'll take one little taste, Śrīla Prabhupāda? You'll take one little taste? (Prabhupāda takes taste)
Prabhupāda: First class.
Kulādri: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja? This valuable presentation may be utilized for New Vrindaban, Vṛndāvanacandra, all the jewelries and the money also. You are developing. I have accepted your gifts, and now you can utilize it for developing.
Kīrtanānanda: Thank you very much, Prabhupāda. If it would please you, I'd like to save it for the mūrti in your palace and use it there.
Prabhupāda: You require money, so you take back and utilize it there. That is my request.
Kīrtanānanda: Thank you very much. Most of all we want you, though.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, I know that. And if I survive, I have a strong desire to go where you live there and live there. It will be a great pleasure.
Kīrtanānanda: All the devotees feel you are already living there, Prabhupāda. They are already having pūjā there every day, twice a day.
Prabhupāda: That is the way.
Prabhupāda: That is the way.
Kīrtanānanda: And everyone feels when they come in there that it is a very holy place.
Prabhupāda: You are worshiping Rādhā-Vṛndāvanacandra very intelligently, and the place is being developed very nicely.
Kīrtanānanda: We have some nice pictures here of your Palace. Can you... Do you feel like seeing them now, or would you rather wait till some other time?
Prabhupāda: I can see them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to sit up, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (break)
Kīrtanānanda: This looks like the king coming to his palace. We are building now a large wall about fourteen feet high all along the road.
Prabhupāda: Here is the palace.
Kīrtanānanda: Yes. It has a big dome on the top. Here's a better picture of it, closer. This was on vyāsa-pūjā day. All the devotees were there offering respects to Your Divine Grace.
Prabhupāda: Do it very nicely. (break) ...unique testament.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: This is soul-killing civilization, this kind way of life, especially European countries. Anywhere you can inhabit it. It is not very difficult. A cottage; you can produce your own food anywhere. Am I right?
Haṁsadūta: Yes, Prabhupāda. We will do it.
Prabhupāda: And money, spend for Kṛṣṇa—for Kṛṣṇa's palace, for Kṛṣṇa's temple, for Kṛṣṇa's worship, gorgeous, as gorgeously as... Not for false... This is the human civilization. And to organize this, varṇāśrama will help you to divide the society—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—as there is division in the body. That will help. Don't waste human form of body for sense gratification. I wanted to introduce this. Now I have given you ideas. You can do it. You are all intelligent. For Caitanya Mahāprabhu's para-upakāra... So you do good to others. Not exploit others. Any human being who has been bestowed by this body has the capacity to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give them chance and make situation favorable. Is that clear?
Haṁsadūta: Yes, it's clear, Prabhupāda. You have made everything very clear.
Prabhupāda: Passed stool.
Prabhupāda: All right. But chanting should not be stopped.
Brahmānanda: Oh, no, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: It should go naturally. Kīrtanānanda's...
Kīrtanānanda: Yes?
Prabhupāda: ...palace, when it will be ready?
Kīrtanānanda: Early spring. Soon as the weather starts to warm up. It just gives you a little time to recuperate here and then go to Bombay and open the temple there and then come to your palace. I have about fifty or seventy-five letters from the devotees at New Vrindaban. They're just all begging you to come. They say their life is finished if you don't.
Prabhupāda: Hm. So let me take a little rest. Then I shall take strawberry.
Rāmeśvara: Actually, just yesterday Parivrājakācārya met the king.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Shah.
Rāmeśvara: The Shah. Very briefly. And he is allowing Parivrājakācārya to visit the court. Practically every day they send a car to pick him up, chauffeured car. And he goes every day to the palace and he preaches to different members of the royal family.
Prabhupāda: He tries to understand the philosophy.
Rāmeśvara: Not yet the Shah. He is simply smiling that he's... He's happy that he's coming. But the other members of the family, some princes and princesses, they are taking it very seriously. They are eager to help us.
Prabhupāda: That's good news. What is this?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tape recorder.
Prabhupāda: It is a good news.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Whole area.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whole area, the whole back.
Rāmeśvara: And she requested one painting from the Tenth Canto, which she wants to hang in the palace. And in this palace the rulers of all the countries of the world pass through as visitors. So she is hanging this painting of Kṛṣṇa stealing butter. (Prabhupāda laughs) Very big painting. So I brought the painting with me when I went to Tehran so they could display it.
Prabhupāda: Anyone can scratch very hard?
Kīrtanānanda: I'm afraid you won't have any back left.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Kīrtanānanda, you are doing. (devotees laugh)
Jayatīrtha: He is your original masseur. He wants his old job back now.
Prabhupāda: Not so hard. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: I am living still.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's so much to be done, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Your activities are not completed yet. You have to install the Deities in Bombay, you have to live in your palace in New Vrindaban, you have to show varṇāśrama, you have to complete the Bhāgavatam, you have to live in a new house in Māyāpur, and we have to at least make a good start to begin the big temple in Māyāpur. Everything is still incomplete, what to speak of the fact that we are all very much neophyte still. We need you more than anything else. This movement has to last ten thousand years. We're not ready yet. We're still very much conditioned and contaminated. If you stay with us for another ten years at least, then there's chance that we can become purified more. And it's within your... It's within you to be able to do that. Kṛṣṇa will allow you to do that.
Prabhupāda: People are coming like before?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll have to start looking again, Śrīla Prabhupāda. My eyes have not been able to see everything very clearly in the last few days.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Due to your being in this condition, I am not seeing very... I've not been very alert to looking at those things because I was worried about you. Today I'll try to see.
Prabhupāda: No. In Māyāpur.
Rāmeśvara: This is the best time in Tehran, the fall, autumn season. Parivrājakācārya Mahārāja told me that the Indian ambassador to Iran spoke with him and told him, "You are the real ambassador of India."
Prabhupāda: Hm. Why?
Rāmeśvara: Because he is becoming friendly with the royal family. Actually he goes every day to the palace. They send a chauffeured Mercedes to pick him up every day. He spends four or five hours every day talking to the royal family.
Prabhupāda: It is great opportunity.
Jayatīrtha: It's the wealthiest family in the world, much more wealthy than Rockefeller.
Prabhupāda: He goes alone or with somebody else?
Rāmeśvara: For now he's going alone. They are very interested in haṭha-yoga also, and he knows something of it, so he teaches them. The prince and the princess have already become vegetarian.
Prabhupāda: And they are not making any chānā preparation?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Are they cooking anything with chānā in it? No chānā preparations? Chick peas.
Prabhupāda: Not...
Jayatīrtha: Cheese.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, chānā. (laughs) Yes, cheese, right, cheese.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is real medicine.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that our being here and chanting before you is spreading this movement, because the more we chant, the more love and dependence we develop for you, and that's making us strong in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and therefore our movement is getting stronger. Every day that we stay here, we become stronger in our devotion for you and dependence on you. (pause) I think that I should just tell them to end their meeting now. They're waiting for me, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then I'll come back in a little while and chant. Actually you have to get better, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja has built this palace. It's only meant for you. We were seeing pictures of it today. It is so beautiful. It is exactly the place that you want to retire in and translate. And this community of Gītā-nagarī will be just proper place to give direction how to establish nice spiritual community. These two places are very close to each other-New Vrindaban and Gītā-nagarī. They're only three hours away from each other. Two very good communities for showing the example how to spread ideal Vedic life. We were discussing that actually it is not anything new that Kṛṣṇa can make His devotee better, because we were reading before in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta how sometimes Lord Caitanya would bring back to life someone who had even expired. And His associates were able to do that. And there is many cases. I think if we are very determined, then Kṛṣṇa will surely fulfill our desire.
Prabhupāda: Without fail.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Without fail.
Prabhupāda: Where is Harikeśa? (Bengali) Why these books you do not keep with us?
Hari-śauri: Generally they do carry them, but it was left...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a copy here also, and I don't see it now. There was a copy on these shelves.
Prabhupāda: Where is Kīrtanānanda Swami? (Bengali)...New Vrindaban scheme... (Bengali)
Hari-śauri: This is a palace that they're building in our New Vrindaban farm community. This is built by our own men. This is not complete yet, but it's being built, the dome. Kīrtanānanda Swami is in charge. These are the devotees. Everything is being made by our men. They learned how to cast concrete, how to make these pillars, archways. This marble laying is all done by our men. They came here and learned, and they have a marble shop. This is the kīrtana hall inside. This is on the walls. Here's the floor. This is onyx and marble together. This is pressed concrete, sculptured. This is a support piece, little decorative. This is a guesthouse that was built by the devotees. This is another new building they're building now, and this is present installation and silos for storing cow fodder. You want to sit up, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: I can sit down for some...
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This has been given to the Shah of Iran, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Hari-śauri: To hang in their palace.
Prabhupāda: The Shah of Iran (Bengali) some connection (Bengali) Parivrājakācārya (Bengali)...
Rāmeśvara: This painting is Mother Yaśodā chasing Kṛṣṇa with a stick because He is stealing butter. (Godbrothers are laughing, saying "Oh" and "Hm" at each picture) This painting is the fruit vendor, aborigine, giving Kṛṣṇa all the fruits, and He is turning her basket of fruits into jewels.
Hari-śauri: These are wonderful.
Rāmeśvara: We showed this painting to the princess and told her that if you give something to Kṛṣṇa, He returns it millions of times. (laughter) She liked this. This is the cowherd boys sporting in the mouth of Aghāsura.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it will be very nice when the weather is a little cool, for you to wear it, Śrīla Prabhupāda, on your morning walks. (laughter)
Girirāja: Also he converted one of his palaces into a hotel, and he's ordering 301 copies of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, one for each room in the hotel. And he's also associated with the Taj Hotel. So he's going to try to see about having them take one Gītā for each room.
Prabhupāda: So you have taken your dinner?
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: All right. Then take rest.
Girirāja: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Mr. Dugal...?
Girirāja: Mr. Dugal?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Girirāja: "My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, You are known as Yogeśvara, the master of all mystic powers. So it is very easy for You to perform the impossible, as You have done many times in the past. By Your merciful glance You restored life to the boys and cows who had died by drinking the water of the Yamunā River which was poisoned by Kāliya. And You swallowed the devastating forest fire to protect the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. In the rāsa dance You expanded Yourself to be simultaneously present by the side of each gopī. And as guru-dakṣiṇā, You recovered the dead son of Your teacher. When the hunchback maidservant of Kaṁsa smeared You with sandalwood pulp, You made her straight and beautiful. And as a householder in Dvārakā, You expanded Yourself into sixteen thousand Kṛṣṇas and simultaneously satisfied all of Your sixteen thousand wives. When Sudāmā Brāhmaṇa offered You chipped rice, You transformed his poor cottage into a beautiful palace suitable for the king of heaven. And to satisfy Mother Devakī, You returned her six dead sons from the kingdom of Bali. To appease the Dvārakā brāhmaṇa, You also reclaimed his dead sons from Mahā-Viṣṇu. When Śrīla Prabhupāda sat with seven dollars under a tree in Tompkins Square Park, You transformed that tree into so many royal palaces, and You expanded that seven dollars into millions of dollars. And when Śrīla Prabhupāda spoke Your message, You turned the mlecchas and caṇḍālas into Your devotees. And when Śrīla Prabhupāda went all by himself to sell his Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam volumes, You expanded him into ten thousand loving salesmen who are working day and night without asking any salary, and You expanded his suitcase of books into fifty-five million pieces of literature in twenty-three different languages. And when Hare Kṛṣṇa Land was lost to the demons, You returned it to His Divine Grace. So from these examples we can understand that for You, the impossible is not difficult, but rather, You have performed so many impossible feats for Your devotees. Therefore if You desire, please give Śrīla Prabhupāda a new body."
Prabhupāda: Excellent. Very... Foundation, back to Godhead. I am getting little glimpse, He may agree to your prayer, yes.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Tāra hoy braja-bhūmi bās.
Pradyumna: Jebā jāne cintāmaṇi?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi, jebā jāne cintāmaṇi, tāra hoy braja-bhūmi bās. And we have got such a nice place, open place, palatial building, such finer...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This will be added incentive to complete, to build your house.
Bhavānanda: Everyone will be in ecstasy, especially the Gurukula boys most of all. They're always asking, "When is Śrīla Prabhupāda coming? When he's coming? Tomorrow?"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And I will cash those certificates when we get to Calcutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then I don't have to call for them. If we go there, then I'll do everything there. It will be very easy.
Prabhupāda: So that is my proposal. Now you think over seriously and arrange for.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now you will shower your mercy upon the Vaiṣṇavas of Bengal, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Or I shall go there to take their dust of feet.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra says, "Do you want to first wash your face and teeth before going to the temple?"
Prabhupāda: Wash.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, last week one package was sent here, via Bombay, for Your Divine Grace, of fruit from the palace, from the king's palace in Tehran. And also there was a letter sent which... I don't know... It did not come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, nothing came.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: The fruit came. It was the pomegranate and lemon.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dayānanda brought it.
Bhavānanda: No, before then. The fruit came.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And the letter wished you good health by the royal family.
Prabhupāda: No, preaching also, it is going on. I know that. Where is the cotton sweater?
Pañca-draviḍa: We brought one sweater from Peru, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) (loud kīrtana)
Prabhupāda: I'm not tired.
| Page Title: | Palace (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 11 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=148, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 148 |