Ordinary man (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"ordinary man" |"ordinary men"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Bhagavān, that I explained so many times. Bhagavān everyone, little possessing opulence.

Acyutānanda: But these other Gītās are named after the demigod.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. He can be called bhagavān. He is not ordinary man. He can be called. But the real Bhaga.... Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. That is the.... The real Bhagavān is here, but these demigods, they have got little opulences, not equal to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are sometimes called Bhagavān.

Morning Walk -- February 10, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I used to visit him, and he had one sādhu who used to come who was his guru, and he would also smoke gāñjā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gāñjā smoking is not taken as bad in India, by the sādhus, not ordinary men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. He told me, Mr. Das, that it increased his meditation and ecstasy.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, gāñjā smoking by the sādhus, sannyāsīs, is not taken very bad serious. The hippies learned from them. Allen Ginsberg introduced... "Yes. Gāñjā smoking is very good by the saintly person."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think your Guru Mahārāja spoke strongly against such persons.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And from him we learned that intoxication, any kind of intoxication, is bad.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura also was...

Prabhupāda: He was also not very serious, but Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura was very serious, and we learned from him. No, it is śāstrīya. No intoxication is good.

Morning Walk -- March 7, 1976, Mayapur:

Guru-kṛpā: ...and the explanation of...

Prabhupāda: And where is sense gratification? As soon as nature kicks you out, where is your sense gratification?

Hṛdāyānanda: It's a relative thing. Actually, compared to the ordinary man, he's much more intelligent.

Prabhupāda: What is intelligence?

Hṛdāyānanda: He's thinking that "I know so many things, and these other people, they don't know these things. Therefore I'm better than them."

Prabhupāda: So the birds and beasts, they know better than you many things. There are many birds and beasts.

Guru-kṛpā: "They can't... They can't explain it."

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guru-kṛpā: "They can't explain it."

Prabhupāda: You also cannot explain. What is explaining? All nonsense.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1976, Mayapur:

Harikeśa: Kick him on the face.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) No, don't say like that. But the thing is.... Business means.... Business means four things. Yes, we are businessman. I was student of economics. I know how to do business, and the business principle means you require four things: land, labor, capital, organization. So, ordinary man cannot do that. Otherwise, everyone would have done some business and become millionaires. But it requires these four things: land, labor, organization, and capital. So where you have got these? You have neither land, neither capital, neither place. So how you can do business? I am doing business because I have got all these things. I went to America-land. Then I worked-labor. Then I earned some capital, and I have got brain how to do it. (to Lokanātha) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So why you are becoming paramahaṁsa? This is paramahaṁsa dress.

Lokanātha: Yeah, I have to dye it today.

Prabhupāda: Don't become paramahaṁsa immediately. Paramahaṁsa is the last stage of sannyāsa. First stage is kuticaka. Second stage is parivrājakācārya. Third stage is.... No, first stage is kuticaka. Then second stage is bahudaka, bahudaka. And third stage is parivrājakācārya, and fourth stage is paramahaṁsa. Therefore paramahaṁsa stage is the topmost.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: He was waiting if Caitanya Mahāprabhu would accept him again. But when he saw that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not so lenient, he committed suicide. Vajrād api kaṭora. Harder than the thunderbolt and softer than the rose. This is the position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But, Prabhupāda, if you were as strict as.... If you were that strict...

Prabhupāda: No, I am not Caitanya Prabhu. I am not.... Why you are comparing me? I am an ordinary man.

Guru-kṛpā: So in ISKCON, if someone falls down, it means that he should commit suicide?

Prabhupāda: No.

Gurudāsa: We wouldn't have much of a movement, then.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We're too attached to our bodies anyway, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, no, if he falls down, that is automatically suicide. If he falls down, that means it is suicide. He got the chance. If he falls down, that is suicide.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: "As a native of India now living in the West, it has given me much grief to see so many of my fellow countrymen coming to the West in the role of gurus and spiritual leaders. Just as any ordinary man in the West becomes conscious of Christian culture from his very birth, any ordinary man in India becomes familiar with the principles of meditation and yoga from his very birth. Unfortunately, many unscrupulous persons come from India, exhibit their imperfect and ordinary knowledge of yoga, cheat the people with their wares consisting of mantras, and present themselves as incarnations of God. So many of these cheaters have come, convincing their foolish followers to accept them as God, that those who are actually well versed and learned in Indian culture have become very concerned and troubled. For this reason I am very excited..."

Prabhupāda: Send this copy to Indira Gandhi.

Devotee (2): Indira Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and request him to stop to send, give passport to all these nonsense. Do this. Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Rūpānuga: Out of sight, they say it is finished.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this thing you have to convince them. Why should you allow them to remain a rascal? Now the sun is rising. Does it mean all of a sudden a sun is created? So these are the examples. You have to preach like that. Simply believe your eyes? You believe also there was no sun; now it is sun. That means all of a sudden a sun became created. See the intelligent persons and convince them. Yad yad ācārati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). Pick up the best man. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He picked up the best men, Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī. So His movement became successful. Sanātana Gosvāmī was not an ordinary man. Very educated, learned brāhmaṇa and minister, Caitanya Mahāprabhu picked up. Similarly Rūpa Gosvāmī, similarly Jīva Gosvāmī. Picked up means by His preaching they became converted. So similarly pick up a person like Sanātana Gosvāmī, intelligent, in position, and try to convince him. Why he will not be convinced, if he's a human being? This is not religion. That I am breathing, what is this breathing? Eh? What is the breathing?

Guru-kṛpā: Air going in and out.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, when the breathing is stopped, why don't you manufacture some machine that breathing will come again? Why you cannot do it? Everyone knows it is air. Put some machine within and let there be breathing. Tell me why you cannot do it?

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You.... You cannot expect any good thing to be taken up by mass of people. That is not possible. In university, when matriculation candidates, there are so many. Then B.A. candidates, so many. And when you come to the M.A., Ph.D., a very few number.

Doug Warvick: Why is that?

Prabhupāda: You cannot expect that everyone should be M.A., Ph.D. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is like that. It is not meant for ordinary persons. Those who are very intelligent, they can understand it. Ordinary men, they cannot understand even that he's not this body. What he will understand about Kṛṣṇa? Therefore the beginning understanding is that "I am not this body." When you are firmly convinced about this science that you are not this body, then Kṛṣṇa consciousness beginning.

Brian Singer: And it's not necessary to live a temple life.

Prabhupāda: No, temple life is a.... Just like if you go to school.... Without school you can be educated. It is not that we..., unless you go to school you can be educated. But if you go to school you get greater facilities. And that is the way. Just like in our country Rabindranath Tagore, he never went to school. You have heard the name of Rabindranath Tagore?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Rabindranath Tagore.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: ...misleader. But he himself has no character. So here it is open secret, to keep a beautiful girl as secretary, everywhere in Europe and America. So where is purity? Purity? Marriage is a taboo, and keep secretary is very good job. And you can get secretary even free of charge. Rather, she will pay. So this is going on. In Vedic civilization marriage is one of the important function of life. As death is important function, birth is important function, similarly, marriage is also important function. Janma-mṛtyu-vivāha. So in this age everywhere, not only.... The marriage is now farce. This is the symptom of Kali-yuga. There will be no more marriage. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Even there is marriage, there will be simply an agreement. That is happening, and it was written five thousand years ago. Svīkāra eva. Svīkāra means by agreement, signing agreement. No marriage function. Otherwise marriage is a.... According to Vedic system, if one has got some money, he will spend the money in three functions. When the child is born, very gorgeously he will spend money, give in charity. Always in the Bhāg... Nanda Mahārāja is giving in charity cows and money, and Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja is giving. Kṛṣṇa, as family man, He was giving in charity. So when the child is born, the horoscope is made, and to make the child happy, blessings of saintly persons, brāhmaṇas, they are given. Ordinary men also sumptuously fed. So bhūribhiḥ.(?) Everyone gives some blessings so that the child is.... Then marriage. During marriage time.... You have seen Kṛṣṇa's mother's marriage? That was the system.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise why they complain? They're doubtful.

Guru-kṛpā: Asaṁśayaṁ samagram.

Prabhupāda: That.... Yes. That verse?

mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

(BG 7.1)

Asaṁśayam: "Without any doubt, and in fullness, as you understand, I'll see to(?)" This is our faith. We have no asaṁśaya, and we have no imperfect understanding. Asaṁśayaṁ samagram. Asaṁśayam means without any doubt, and samagram means in full. You know simply Brahman. That is that full knowledge. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). That's all right. You have come to the light, just like you have come to the sunshine, light, but does not mean that you have gone to the sun globe or you have seen the sun-god. That will take many millions of years to become so perfect. But you have come to the light—that much credit to you. That is ordinary. Everyone sees the sunlight. That does not require much endeavor. But if you want to go to the sun globe and enter there to see the sun-god, then that requires special qualification. So you are ordinary man. You have come to the light from darkness. That much credit to you, that's all.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: And they're taking it, highly civilized way of life. Where you are going? You cannot go beyond this earth. You attempted so much to go to the moon planet, you failed. And where you can go, put-put-put-put? You'll have to stay here. But that rascal does not understand. He thinks, "I am going very fast." Where you are going? You are destined to stay here. That he does not understand. Not only this put-put motorcycle, the put-put airplane also. They're also trying to go to this planet around, round. That sputnik, first sputnik, eighteen thousand miles, and they simply rounded over the world in one hour and twenty-five minutes. And where did you go? And when he's tired, then come down again. They cannot understand, these so-called scientists, that we cannot go in this way. There is higher authority. Why it will allow us to go anywhere? Just like the horse running fast, but within the race course. That's all. It cannot go beyond the race course. And similarly, however heroic expedition we may show, you are, what is called, baddha-jīva, conditioned. You cannot cross the condition, that is not possible. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). A rascal, on account of his false prestige, he is thinking, "Oh, I am independent. I can do whatever I like." Vimūḍhātmā, foolish, rascal. Mūḍha, not. Vimūḍhātmā, "especially the rascal, a special rascal." Ordinary rascal is better than the special rascal. (laughs) So all these scientists, philosophers, and political leaders, they're all special rascal, they are.

Devotee (2): Vimūḍha.

Prabhupāda: Ordinary man, they're simply rascal, and these rascals are special rascals.

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Go on. Yes, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Narakī, if anyone thinks arca-vigraha, the Deities as made of stone, made of earth, or made of something material, and guru, the spiritual master, "He is an ordinary man"—these are forbidden. So why guru is to be considered sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **, exactly (like) the Supreme Personality of Godhead? That reason is given there. That reason is that he is giving the Kṛṣṇa knowledge; therefore he is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Even though his family members or his friend thinking, "Oh, he has now become guru," still he should be considered the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That reason also given there, that even Kṛṣṇa was taken as ordinary man, but does it mean that He has become ordinary? Similarly any..., our movement, it may appear just like other movement, but because the movement is giving Kṛṣṇa, that means it is as good as Kṛṣṇa. This is the example. Ajñāya haña (follow the order). It may appear to others... And there are so many movements, and the hippies have taken another say(?), but it is not that. It is actually Kṛṣṇa. So long it adheres to the principle, "I'll enjoy, I'll be unaccepted(?)." Otherwise it is ordinary movement. This same man, he's guru, so long he gives the real knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. And the same man, he's ordinary man, as soon as he cannot give. Same thing, just like a stone doll, when it is worshiped according to the regulative principles—Kṛṣṇa. And the same doll, kept in the sculptor's showroom, it is stone. So if we keep our movement pure, then you are as strong as Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you deviate from it, immediately, ordinary. This is the secret.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: What is that revolution? The ball is kicked here, and again goes and he kicks there. That's all. Revolution means Czar was kicking, and then Lenin began to kick. But his business is to be kicked. That's all. What is the advancement? One man was kicking, another man was kicking. That's all. That is revolution. Gojan mumukta(?) (indistinct). If you have got strength, then the government is yours. That's all. But those who are resident, they are suffering. Just like this Korea, Vietnam, sometimes Communist government, sometimes capitalist government. The sufferer is the ordinary man. Revolution means one part takes the power, another man is killed. But the general people, they're suffering, this way that way. They do not think who will rule. Just like in India, they are the British rule, now it is Congress rule. But the result is in British rule the ghee was selling at one rupee per kilo, now it is twenty-five rupees. The dhotī was selling one rupee six anna, now it is twenty-five rupees. So what the public has gained? Nothing.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, we have got our own argument, that the other planet is as good as this planet. If this planet is full of life, why the other not? Analogy. Analogy is also another science.

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes, you write in the Kṛṣṇa book that the demigods can come to this planet invisible.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So, if ordinary man went to some other planet through his sputnik, would he be able to see the demigods?

Prabhupāda: No, why not? Some men arguing that.... Because he did not see, it does not mean there is no life. That they cannot say. Just like in the water we don't see. Superficially.

Hṛdayānanda: Yeah, if they take a sputnik...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: If they take a camera over the water, they won't see any life.

Rāmeśvara: Or over the fire, they will not see any life on the sun...

Prabhupāda: No.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now, if He is ordering to become His devotee, how can I try to become another God, competitor? This is the folly, and for this we are suffering. He asked him, "You become My devotee." And I want to become another God, competitor. And therefore we are suffering. We cannot become another God. That is not possible. But artificially you are trying. Therefore you are suffering. Anything you try artificially, you'll suffer. If you try for a thing artificially, then what is the result? Result will be suffering and disappointment. Therefore śāstra says, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovidaḥ. Don't try for such things... You have tried all through in different forms of life. You have failed. So don't try for that. But try to become servant of God. Then your life will be successful. Because in the material world the endeavor is how to become God in different varieties: how to become president, how to become minister, how to become master, how to become very strong man, very wealthy man, very beautiful man, so on, so on, so on, up to—when everything fails—then how to become God. When everything fails, then, ultimately, "Now I shall become God." The same disease is there, how to become big, now the biggest. And that is the same disease in a different form. Therefore, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said, kṛṣṇa-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva śānta, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī-'aśānta' (CC Madhya 19.149). Bhukti means material enjoyment. Karmīs... Just like ordinary men, they are working so hard day and night. This airplane is running here and there, (loud airplane passing over) day and night, carrying karmīs. So this is bhukti.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, I do not fear.

Richard: Oh, you don't?

Prabhupāda: No.

Richard: Oh, okay.

Rāmeśvara: The ordinary man.

Prabhupāda: Because...

Richard: Well, I don't either, and I'm not in Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, because you do not know that you are risking your life without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the.... You do not, that I have already said, that an innocent person doesn't know what is going to happen, but things are going to happen. That you do not know.

Rāmeśvara: After death.

Prabhupāda: So you must be aware what is going to happen after death. Then if you become fearless, that is secure. But without knowing, if you are not afraid, that is risk.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "...who has made it his life's work to debunk the so-called material powers of god-men the world over, and said that he is afraid for his life. Amongst those he has challenged is Satya Sai Baba, a mystic who has thousands of followers in South Africa. The man who is said to expose fraudulent practices amongst miracle workers is Dr. Abraham T. Kavoor, who recently held a spell-binding magic show at the Bangalore Town Hall to debunk the miracles of god-men. He claimed that several of the tricks demonstrated had, in fact, been learned from persons who had duped the public that they could perform miracles and other extraordinary acts. And this, he believed, would lead to an attempt on his life. 'I am not afraid of gods. They don't exist. But I am afraid of god-men, because they are alive. They have thugs as agents. If a good man like Gandhi could be assassinated, what keeps a Kavoor from suffering the same fate?' Addressing a press conference, Dr. Kavoor implied that an attempt might be made on his life if he tried to expose the fraudulent practice by god-men because this would involve a physical search of the persons involved. Hence his insistence that his investigation would have to be preceded by their permission. (The permission of these so-called mystics, registered letters.) To date, he said, he had written six registered letters to Satya Sai Baba issuing his famous challenge, but had no reply from him as yet. Asked how he produced ash and other objects out of nowhere, Dr. Kavoor indicated that one of the methods was by concealing the objects to be materialized inside of his coat. The rest was pure sleight of hand. Photographs of him (Sai Baba) exposing his coat have been published both in the national and international press, he said. Reporting that haṭha-yogī L.S. Lal had confessed to him that his much-vaunted show of walking on water had been pure trick designed to make some money, Dr. Kavoor said, 'How long can the government of India tolerate such hoaxers who claim to have supernatural powers and exploit the ordinary men?' "

Prabhupāda: You keep this. We shall have to show to the Indian government authorities.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: " 'Just as it has dealt with black marketers and smugglers, it is high time the government took immediate action to round up all those who claim supernatural powers.' While he was happy that Bangalore University has already established a committee to investigate miracles and superstitions, he cautioned them to be very careful, as even the scientists were not infallible."

Prabhupāda: How many scientists?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are also fallible, they can also make mistakes. "Experts Misled: For instance, investigators in universities in the West were known to be misled by tricksters who claimed para-psychological powers." Like ESP.

Prabhupāda: They invent some big, big words (laughter). Aparkalasvena-vargolas-double-wakundali-gondolais (gibberish). (laughter)

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is the authoritative source, that you are not master, you are servant. Cultivate this knowledge. Don't try to become a master, falsely. That will never be successful. Remain servant of Kṛṣṇa, you'll be happy. That is the business of spiritual master. He gives the right information; therefore he is respected so much, because he does not cheat. "You can become master, even God you can become"—this is cheating. The real spiritual master says that "You can never become master. You are always servant." And therefore he's worshiped. He gives the right information. Therefore he is honored so, because he does not cheat. The so-called spiritual master is cheating, that "You take this mantra and give me some money and you become God." This cheating is going on. Spiritual master is to be worshiped. Why? Because he does not cheat. He gives the right information. That is his credit. Guruṣu nara-mati. Therefore one should not take guru as ordinary human being. Ordinary human being, he'll cheat you, or he'll give some information, he's cheating. But a guru, real guru, he'll not cheat you. Therefore he should be worshiped as good... God does not cheat you. Therefore guru should not be taken as ordinary human being. Guruṣu nara-mati. "I see that he is like ordinary man. His son is calling him 'father.' His wife is..." That's all right, but because he's giving the right information, he is not ordinary human being. Therefore he should be worshiped as good as God. He does not cheat. That is the test of guru. He'll never say that "You give me some bribe and you'll become God by meditation, transcendental." He'll never say that. This is cheating. Why father is respected? Because he never cheats the son. Father is also a man, another man. Why father is...? Because he's always wishing welfare of the son, he does not cheat, sincerely teaches him the reality.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That means you do not know seriously what is soul. You have simply an idea, but you do not know in detail. Just like they say, the Christians, "God is great." But they do not know who is God and what is the meaning of greatness. That they do not know. They accept this theoretically or religious sentimentally, "God is great." Just like your state says, "In God We Trust." As soon as I inquire what kind of trust and to whom, there is no reply. That means they do not know what is God, what is trust. As a matter of slogan they write, that's all. Even the state heads, and what to speak of the nonsense ordinary citizens. Seriously taking, it is very important question. They should have reply. But they do not know how to reply.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: With all of the situations that take place in the material world, they may not be able to see how God is actually active in the material world, that whether there's a war or whether...

Prabhupāda: Well, that you should.... Why you should remain in ignorance how God is acting? If you are serious about God, then you must know. Just like a statesman, he knows how government is acting. Ordinary man, he knows government is acting, but he does not know how government is acting. But advanced in knowledge, they know what is the constitution, how the government is acting. That is the difference. Therefore lawyer is appointed when there is some trouble. He can find out where is the defect. That is advancement of knowledge. (end)

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Arjuna is rectifying this because people may say, "Arjuna was Kṛṣṇa's friend, he is accepting Him as guru." No, Arjuna says, "Not only I, but other authorities, they also accept." So it is..., everything is clear, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and He should be accepted as guru or His representative should be accepted guru. Then it will be... So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as the supreme guru. You take instruction from Him and be benefited. But one who is carrying this message, he is also authorized. Just like one money order, it is coming through the post office, but an ordinary peon is handing over the money. But he is representative of post office. Actually, the money order is being delivered by the post office, general post office. But it is coming through an ordinary peon. But because he is authorized to deliver you, he is also post office. He's as good as the post office. Just you have got a letter box, a small box, but if you put your letter there, your letter will surely go ten thousand miles away. Therefore, although it is a small box, you don't think it is small box. It is whole post office. Similarly, anyone who is carrying the message of Kṛṣṇa, don't think that he's ordinary man. If you imitate one box like that post box and put your letter, for thousand years it will lie down there. Because it is not authorized. So if somebody says this small box, red box, is as good as the post office, one may say, "Huh, this is small box. How it can be as good as the post office?" But you see. You post your letter, it will go. Therefore, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. Guru is directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Why? Because he is presenting the words of Supreme Personality of Godhead without any deterioration. Therefore he is so honored. So therefore the conclusion is guru is necessary and guru is he who is representative of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise he's bogus.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So if he's eternal fragmental parts, how he can become one with the whole? The part is never equal to the whole. That is axiomatic truth. This is wrong conception, to become like God. The Māyāvādīs, they are trying to become God. That is impossible. They... Let them remain godly. Godly means servant of God. That will make him perfection, his life perfect. Vaiṣṇava philosophy is to remain, to act as servant of God. That is perfect. And if the servant tries to become like the master, that is artificial. Although in the spiritual world there is no difference between the master and the servant... Just like the boys, Kṛṣṇa's cowherd boy friends, they do not know Kṛṣṇa is God. They are playing with Him on equal terms. When Kṛṣṇa is defeated in the play He has to take His friend on His shoulder and he rides on the shoulder. So there is no such distinction who is God and who is not God. So that is spiritual conception. But the difference is always there. God and the part and parcel. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. We can attain that position after many, many lives' pious activities. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

itthaṁ (satāṁ) brahma-sukhānubhūtyā

dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena

māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa

sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ

(SB 10.12.11)

These boys are playing with Kṛṣṇa. Who is Kṛṣṇa? He is the essence of Brahma-sukha, Param Brahman. So these boys are playing with Param Brahman. Itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena. And for the devotees He's the supreme master, and for the ordinary man He is ordinary child. But these other children who are playing, they have got this position kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. "After many, many births' pious activities, now I have got this position, playing with Kṛṣṇa on equal terms." So this is the conception of devotional service, that when you go to the Goloka Vṛndāvana you cannot distinguish.... But they have got unflinching love for Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana life.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: He does not come in human form. He is like human being, dvi-bhuja. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. He's... In the Bible it is said that man is made after God. The human being, two hands, two legs, this body they have got, that is the original form of God. But because He comes in that form, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11), they think that He is a man. His original form is (like) that. But because we are habituated to see two hands, two legs of human being, we take Him as human being. But that is His original form. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. Find out. So if we accept Him as a human being like us, then we are mūḍhā, rascals. He says avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). They do not know what is behind this human form. God is omnipotent, almighty. He can take any form He likes. You cannot check Him. You cannot say "How Brahman can come in a human form?" Why He cannot come? If He is all-powerful, where is the difficulty? Taking your argument, if Brahman is all-powerful, then where is the difficulty for Him to come as a human being?

Guest (2): No, there cannot be no difficulty. That is reasonable.

Prabhupāda: But if we take Him... Just like here there are so many gentlemen, now here is a lawyer or here is a high-court judge, and if I take him, that he's also an ordinary man, that is my mistake. Even if he comes as ordinary visitor, still he's high-court judge. His position is not declined.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Number? Yes, of course, no. Actually, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Always to be chanted. But because you cannot do that, therefore you must fix up a number. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka, that "I must chant so many times." That is determination. I have prescribed to my disciples that "You must chant at least sixteen rounds." That is very easy. But there is saṅkhyā. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. The Gosvāmīs, they used to do that. So it is; otherwise, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. The chanting should go on twenty-four hours. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura used to do. He was simply chanting. But that is not possible for ordinary man. Therefore they should have a fixed up, that "I must chant so many times." That will fix up the determination. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. There must be some dṛḍha-vratāḥ, that "I must do it." Then the devotion grows very firm. If we become lenient, "All right, I shall do later on..." No, must be done. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Everything should be determined. Then spiritual progress will be rapid.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There is no fundamental difference. The same. Bhagavad-gītā recommends that you should select a very secluded place in a solitary sacred place, you should make your āsana, sit down perpendicularly, don't close your eyes completely, half open, and concentrate on the tip of the nose. Everything is there. "And then think of Me." But Arjuna said, he said, "Oh, it is not possible." He was a frank gentleman. He was not a hypocrite. He said that "You are recommending all these yoga practice, it is not possible for me. I am a politician, I have to execute so many other businesses. I cannot go to the secluded place and sit down like this. So you are recommending me for yoga practice, but I say I cannot." But at the present moment, they have become more than Arjuna. (laughs) What Arjuna denied, they want to practice. This is another hypocrisy. Arjuna was not an ordinary man. He was so exalted that he could speak with Kṛṣṇa directly, and coming from royal family, and he's famous as great fighter. He refused, "I cannot do that." And we are taking to yoga practice. We have become more than Arjuna. This is going on. He does not think himself that "Arjuna is such a great personality, he thought himself to be incapable to practicing yoga, and we are making a show of yoga, paying somebody large amounts of money"? That's all. This is going on.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sharma: The devotees are working for the salvation for everyone.

Prabhupāda: He's already perfect. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). The one who's trying for others' salvation... That is a devotee's business. Ordinary man cannot do it. Because he's doing that, it is to be understood that he's already on the platform of... Because salvation means to remain his own position. Muktir hitvānyathā-rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Svarūpa is to serve God. So if one is serving on behalf of God, then he's in svarūpa, mukti. Others are acting for his own benefit, but a devotee is acting for others' benefit. Therefore he's already on the platform of liberation.

Guest (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, should I have resigned my membership with the Christian organization? Should I have? I did. Could I serve Kṛṣṇa just as well and also through a Christian? I don't see how I could.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't say like that. (laughs) Christian, actually one who is Christian, he's as good as Vaiṣṇava. A Christian means he recognizes God is great. So we also accept God is great. Where is the difference? God is great in all circumstances. So if anyone accepts God is great, that is perfect.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have no other conception. They can't recognize.

Prabhupāda: They have no other conception. Therefore they misunderstand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even in India nowadays they are confused also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In Caitanya-bhāgavata there is a word, vaiṣṇavera kriyā-mudrā vijñe nā bujhāya: "The activities of a Vaiṣṇava, even the most intelligent person of this world cannot understand." Vaiṣṇavera kriyā-mudrā vijñe nā bujhāya.

Hari-śauri: I remember reading in the Kṛṣṇa Book, you mention that to the ordinary man a Vaiṣṇava appears to be crazy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, if they are going to have another interview at one, I think perhaps you can take rest now. (end)

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: And develop from that. I'm sorry about that. If I ask you a few questions about what you believe and that sort of, along those lines, and then get some of the background material from some of your other members of the movement. Can you tell me what you believe, what is the philosophy of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is not a question of belief, it is a science, a spiritual movement. Just like a man is living and he's dead, what is the difference? The difference is that the spirit soul or the living force is out of the body. Therefore he's called dead body. So there are two things, anyone can appreciate. One, this body, and other, the living force of the body. So we are speaking of the living force of the body. That is the difference between material and spiritual. As such, in the beginning, it is very difficult for ordinary man to understand what is our movement, but our movement begins when one understands that he is soul or something other than this body. Then this movement begins.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: There are so many things in India culture for becoming happy and advancing towards the goal of life. Now I am appreciating for more and more, seeing the whole world, what is India's culture. Formerly I was thinking, "It is custom. To become faithful wife, this is custom." But when I come outside I see what is wife and what is faithful wife. In India, still, in the village, even there is fight between husband, wife, the wife is faithful. Still. Completely dependent on husband. The husband also, in spite of fighting, is always careful that the wife does not get any inconvenience. It was the culture, now it is breaking. (about door or window) You can close that. In material world, for peaceful life, there must be peaceful condition between the husband and wife. Everyone requires wife, everyone requires husband. Sex is necessary, so make the condition of sex very peaceful. Why disturbed? Make the condition that there will be... It is necessary. As eating is necessary, sleeping is necessary, for ordinary man, so sex is also necessary. So make a condition so that nothing will be disturbed, and in undisturbed condition of mind execute spiritual advancement. This is Indian civilization. Aim is spiritual advancement. And to make condition favorable, there are so many things. So unless we get favorable condition... Here in the Western countries there is no favorable condition. First of all, they have no idea of spiritual life, the goal of life, neither there is favorable condition. And gradually things are becoming degrading. On my last tour in Chicago I saw. In three weeks she has twice divorced, one lady's advertised. You remember it?

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So ritualistic ceremonies, Vedic ritualistic ceremonies. Everywhere there are some ritualistic ceremony. So when you go above this... Just like Kṛṣṇa says in another place, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo. By performing the Vedic ritualistic ceremony, the ultimate goal is to understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you may not perform this ritualistic ceremony. Because you have come to the objective. Not before that. That is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Vedic ritualistic ceremony is that if you perform this yajña, then you go to the heavenly planet and there you'll get so long life, ten thousands of years, you get nice woman, and so on, so on. People are after that, karma-kāṇḍa. So this karma-kāṇḍa is required so long one is unaware of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When one understands this karma-kāṇḍa elevation is not the aim of our life, our real aim of life how to go back home, back to Godhead, then these things are not required. Just like we have no ritualistic ceremony, we have simply devotional service. We have no ritualistic ceremony. There are so many things ritualistic. And we are performing only this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mahā-mantra. Therefore the smārta brāhmaṇas, they misunderstand. They do not admit that they have become elevated. The Jagannātha temple does not allow. But when one becomes a pure Vaiṣṇava, then tepus tapas te juhuvuḥ sasnur āryā (SB 3.33.7). He has performed all the ritualistic devotion. There are many statements in the śāstras, that when you come to the devotional platform, you haven't go to perform these ritualistic ceremonies. Because the end of ritualistic ceremony, you have come to the point. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). Kaitava means cheating. Cheating type of dharma is rejected here. This karma-kāṇḍa, by performing some ritualistic ceremony you may go to a heavenly planet, but what benefit you will have? That one has to understand. You can enjoy there materialistic, highest type of materialistic civilization means eating, sleeping, mating. These things you can get, but you have to come back again. Kṣine punye martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). So what benefit there is? No benefit. Just like in British period, some Englishman was made viceroy of India. Then after five years they sent to London, again with his bag, marketing in the street. This has been seen practically. Lord such-and-such, he's traveling in a third-class compartment with a bag for marketing. But so long he was viceroy, oh, so much honor, so much prestige. So where is that prestige now? These ritualistic ceremonies are like that. For more years you become viceroy, and then again fall down. That is your Nixon. What is the position of Nixon now? He is ordinary man. That's all.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No long time, I say a moment. Kṛṣṇa says sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). You do it. You can do it in a moment, but you'll not do it. That is the difficulty.

Mrs. Sahani: Yes, we are doing that.

Prabhupāda: You can do it immediately, but unfortunately you'll not do it. What can be done? There is a story, I may narrate it. One poor man was begging on the street, and Lord Śiva and Pārvatī was passing as ordinary man. So Pārvatī requested Lord Śiva that this poor man, he's asking, he's begging, so requested him, "Why don't you give him something?" And Lord Śiva replied, "Even if I give, he'll not be able to enjoy it. He's so unfortunate." "Oh, that we shall see. Why don't you give?" So Lord Śiva, in a watermelon, gave him, say, one thousand dollars. "You take this watermelon." So he thanked him, and after that he thought "What I shall do with this watermelon?" So another man came, "Sir, if you take this watermelon and give me one anna." So he gave one anna and he took it. Because he had no good fortune to take that money within the watermelon. Our fortune is like that. Kṛṣṇa is giving us the final benefit, but we are not taking care of. This is our misfortune.

Mr. Sahani: It is knowledge, that we don't have the knowledge, or enlightenment that in that watermelon there is something which is worth, or it is only that we don't want to do it, or we don't want to take the trouble?

Prabhupāda: That chance is there. You can take the watermelon and cut it, but before that doing if you give it to somebody else, that is your misfortune.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: But we have to plan for the future.

Prabhupāda: Future you cannot plan. That is the foolishness. That is another obstinate rascaldom. Future is not in your hand. You cannot plan. That is going on. They are planning so many things for future, but it is being baffled. So many schemes, so many there are. Our, in India there is a planning commission, after independence. So whatever they did, all failure. All failure. And now it is chaos. That Guljanajana(?) Nanda you know? He was one of the prominent member of the planning commission. He was very important member in the central government, home member, planning commission, president and so on, so on. Nowadays he is loitering on the street, coming me to talk as ordinary man. You have seen? You were giving me massage on the roof and he was sitting?

Hari-śauri: Yes. He's just trying to make some name and fame now by becoming a pious man.

Prabhupāda: So he's coming to me. He was very big man. Home member Ran Nitola(?) was president.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Go on, go on. I have given any purport?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are many devotees who assume themselves to be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service but at heart do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, as the Absolute Truth. For them, the fruit of devotional service-going back to Godhead—will never be tasted. Similarly, those who are engaged in fruitive, pious activities and who are ultimately hoping to be liberated from this material entanglement will never be successful either because they deride the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. In other words, persons who mock Kṛṣṇa are to be understood to be demonic or atheistic. As described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, such demonic miscreants never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore their mental speculations to arrive at the Absolute Truth bring them to the false conclusion that the ordinary living entity and Kṛṣṇa are one and the same. With such a false conviction, they think that the body of any human being is now simply covered by material nature and that as soon as one is liberated from this material body there is no difference between God and himself. This attempt to become one with Kṛṣṇa will be baffled because of delusion. Such atheistic and demoniac cultivation of spiritual knowledge is always futile. That is the indication of this verse. For such persons, cultivation of the knowledge in the Vedic literature, like the Vedānta-sūtra and the Upaniṣads, is always baffled.

It is a great offense, therefore, to consider Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, to be an ordinary man. Those who do so are certainly deluded because they cannot understand the eternal form of Kṛṣṇa. In the Bṛhad-vaiṣṇava mantra it is clearly stated that one who considers the body of Kṛṣṇa to be material should be driven out from all rituals and activities of the śruti. And if one by chance sees his face, he should at once take bath in the Ganges to rid himself of infection. People jeer at Kṛṣṇa because they are envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Their destiny is certainly to take birth after birth in the species of atheistic and demoniac life. Perpetually, their real knowledge will remain under delusion, and gradually they will regress to the darkest region of creation.

Indian man (3): I was reading this yesterday, the Eleventh Chapter. There are twelve, twelve chapters. There Kṛṣṇa Bhagavān had a dialogue with Uddhava.

Pradyumna: He's referring to Ekādaśa-skandha of the Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Uddhava.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: Huh.

Prabhupāda: "He's not ordinary man. Don't say that He's beggar,' he said. (laughs) Nobody follows a beggar like that, that is it. After all he was king, he had some brain. (laughs) So he wanted to brainwash, "Don't think of Him very seriously. A beggar. Some people, sentimental." "No, don't say like that. A beggar is never followed by so many men."

Haṁsadūta: The same thing happened to Jesus. Because so many people would follow him the government became very...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That what do you call it? Crucified?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: He was becoming very popular. So...

Haṁsadūta: And at least according to Bible, it appeared that the Jewish priests, they went to the governor or the chief man at that time, and they demanded that he has to do something about this man.

Prabhupāda: They have proposed it. That Houston politician, "It is spreading like epidemic." Hm? Come. "It is spreading like epidemic. Something must be done." Otherwise one day they'll capture our government." That's a fact. If so many young men join this movement, they will vote. Because your country is democratic. (conchshell blows) Do this what I suggested.

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say. One gentleman, his name is... He was Rabindranath Tagore's brother, artist. So in a meeting he was saying, "We are so fool. Thinking of next life, next life, we are spoiling this life." He said like that long, long ago when we were children, young men, about eighteen years, twenty years. So I remember distinctly, he is saying in the meeting that "Simply thinking of next life, we are spoiling this life." He said. That was his explanation. So at that time we were young boys: "Yes, why we should think of, so much of next life?" Of course, I was not very much convinced, but naturally... I think his name Aurobindo Tagore, like that. Rabindranath Tagore. He is good artist. Artist means latest fashion, like this, like that, like that. He was considered to be latest artist. And his view is that. I talked with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body everything is finished." Communist. This is the cent per cent idea. The so-called scientists, they are thinking, by chemical evolution the body has come in existence. These things are discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. By accident, if it is a combination of chemicals, that means the bodily existence was not before. It has come in by accident, combination. "So why, Arjuna, you are lamenting for the body which was not in existence? And it will not exist after. Then why you are so much anxious for the middle portion?" Good reasoning. The body was not in existence. That is the general... And as soon as you finish, there is no more existence. So via media, between the manifestation and nonmanifestation, in the middle there is some manifesta... Why you are so much absorbed in that part? Therefore the Europeans, Americans, they bring in the charges, "brainwash." "A brainwash movement. It has no actual value. Simply an artificial way of pushing the idea in the brain. And they have to give up. These children are spoiled. They have given up meat-eating and illicit sex. Their life is spoiled, and so on, so on." So their theory is not without background. There is a background philosophy. And for Western countries, this is a completely new idea. Therefore they are charging, "brainwash." They are not to be blamed because they are, I mean to say, raised in that ideas. Hm? Is it not? Yes. "So this is simply brainwash movement. It has no factual standing." Even our country, what to speak of Western countries. Where the spiritual civilization has a strong background, they are also not believing. Nobody believes Kṛṣṇa is God. Even big, big leaders, what to speak of ordinary men. Especially the so-called educated men. "Bring money anyhow and enjoy life." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). And for money they are doing everything. Black money, white money, yellow money, this money. (laughs)

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Te hitam. So it is not for all. One who is in confidence of Kṛṣṇa, a pure devotee, for him, not for the ordinary man. Ordinary man—"You do your prescribed duty." But they have no prescribed duty even. The people of this age, they are so fallen, they have no prescribed duty. They are simply engaged like animals-eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. That's all. Animal is engaged like that, eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. So we are being educated only like animals. We do not know the value of life, how nature is working, how we are changing our body. No education all over the world. Simply making plans how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy senses, how to defend, that's all. This is animal life. This is not prescribed duty. Prescribed duty is above this. From animal, one has to become brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, utmost, śūdra, like that. That is prescribed duty. And simply whole day working for eating, sleeping, mating, that is the business of the hog. Hog is also whole day working for eating, sleeping, and sex, and defense. Therefore śāstra says, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). You should not live the life of a hog, viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām means the stool eater. He is also working day and night. What is the business? "Where is stool?" That's all.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Devotee: ...the argument that after saying "surrender to Kṛṣṇa," and becoming free from the miseries of material life we remain still going home, still a devotee who comes through the heat, still a devotee who is dying just like an ordinary man.

Prabhupāda: It is an argument like this, that "You have gone to a physician for curing your disease. Why you are not cured?" This is nonsense question. It will take some time to be cured. Do you mean to say as soon as you go to the physician, you become cured? Do you think? Why don't you answer like that? A foolish man will say like that, that "You have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why you are now suffering?" Yes, suffering will be... Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). So the assurance is there. You take the treatment. Why do you expect? Immediately you go to the physician. A father gets the daughter married, expecting a child. Does it mean as soon as she's married, immediately child? And if a rascal says, "Oh, she is married, and there is no child?" Because he's a rascal. You must wait. Now she is married, it is sure she'll have child. That's a fact. But if the rascal wants, "Now my daughter is married. There is no child?" What is this nonsense? This question is like that, that "You have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why you are suffering?" You cannot answer this?

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Closed? Maybe. What...?

Trivikrama: Because we are thinking of shifting to Hong Kong because our program mainly is in offices, you know. We go in office, and we dress with a suit and tie. So they're thinking that we're businessmen coming to buy something from them. So they treat us very nicely, "Oh, sit down. How do you do, Mr. Brown?" offer some tea or something. Then we immediately open up briefcase and present one of your Bhagavad-gītās. Then we preach a little bit. We tell them that "We've come here. This is the first time in Chinese language, a very wonderful book. So many men have recommended." And then they appreciate a little bit. Then we say, "If you could help some little donation," and they give us. But these are mostly high-class men in offices, you know. So now we're kind of depleted, because ordinary men don't speak English. So we're going to Hong Kong, but there's no temple there. We'll have to live in hotels.

Prabhupāda: And where is that boy gone that was in Hong Kong?

Trivikrama: He went to New York.

Prabhupāda: He is a Chinese man.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But reading... By reading, you cannot understand. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). That is also vidhilīn: "In order to understand that science, he must go to guru."

Dr. Patel: But, sir, instead of reading no books of knowledge, if you read Bhāgavata or Bhagavad-gītā, it is a sort of a sat-saṅga, and that develops. Someday he'll go to a guru. He'll find out.

Prabhupāda: No, no, if he reads Bhāgavata, he is not ordinary man.

Dr. Patel: He is on the way up.

Prabhupāda: If he reads Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, he is not ordinary man.

Dr. Patel: He's a sat-saṅgi.

Prabhupāda: Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-samvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. Unless you discuss Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā, with sat-saṅga, devotees, it does not become relishable. Therefore he's not attached. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavaḥ. In another verse.... Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo pragṛṇīta karhicit (SB 1.5.10). He may read one literature very decoratively written, very interesting, but there is no discussion about the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yad vacaḥ citra-padam, very decorative. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo pragṛṇīta karhicit: (SB 1.5.10) "But there is no glorification of the Lord." Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham: "Such kind of literature is enjoyable by such persons who are like crows."

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Nitāi left. He was instigated that "Your guru is useless. Find out a better guru and remain in bhajana." This rascal left. He talked with (indistinct). Now where he has gone? Nobody knows where is the paramahaṁsa.

Girirāja: The others are envious.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they're ordinary men. Man's business is to become envious. An ordinary third-class men, there is always envy. Not only first class, but third class. And what to speak of Vaiṣṇava and paramahaṁsa. Third-class men. And the government is capturing them and giving sterilization because there is record—so many abortions in the American Hospital. The bābājīs are making pregnant the widows, and they are going for abortion. There are many cases, similar, and there is American Hospital.

Girirāja: In Vṛndāvana?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Not all. But wherefrom they are becoming pregnant?

Hari-śauri: What is the need for any bābājī to get sterilized, anyway?

Prabhupāda: Not to get... Sterilization, they are being forced. The government understand that who is making them pregnant, these ugly widows. They are not coming from Delhi, government servant. (laughter) Bring them, paramahaṁsas. When I was coming, so many paramahaṁsa, they advised me, "Sir, why you are going to foreign country in this old age? You are in Vṛndāvana. Just go on with your bhajana." The bābājīs gave me advice. And actually, I was seventy years old.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: But actually they're atheists, or Māyāvādīs.

Prabhupāda: They're ordinary men, third-class men. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati... (BG 7.3). What they'll understand about Kṛṣṇa, third-class men? Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati. When one is siddha, out of them, one may understand. And how these third-class men will understand Kṛṣṇa? If they want to remain on the third-class position, they'll never understand Kṛṣṇa.

Girirāja: Then why do they imitate?

Prabhupāda: Some motive behind. Or they may be in the lower position. By serving, gradually they'll come to the real position. But if they do not hear what Kṛṣṇa said, then just imitates again, same. So if we decide that "Whatever Kṛṣṇa has said, we have to do it at any risk," that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Kṛṣṇa has said. My Guru Mahārāja said. We have to do it."

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let them chant and take prasādam. They'll... Everyone will get. Then gradually, as a snake charming, by chanting, chanting, chanting, then they will be subdued. And that is guaranteed process. There is no doubt. Anyone, even a man is like a snake. In material world everyone is a snake, envious. Snake is very envious. You are passing by the side, "Oh! You are passing by my side?" This is snake. No offense. Because he is passing—he has got the poison-he'll utilize it. This is snake. Without offense. If somebody hurts him or tramples him—no. "Oh, you are so daring? You are passing? You do not know I am snake." Sarpaḥ kruraḥ khalaḥ kruraḥ sarpāt krurataraḥ khalaḥ. There are similarly men also. Unnecessarily they are envious, offensive, unnecessary. They cannot tolerate others' opulence. Just like our Godbrothers. They are envious. What I have done to them? I am doing my business, trying to serve my Guru Mahārāja. But they are envious because I am so opulent. I have got so much fame, so many influence, so much influence all over the world. Everyone is praising me about... That is ignorance. And this is regrettable because they are posing themselves as Vaiṣṇava. Ordinary man can do that, but they are dressing like Vaiṣṇava, and they are so envious. That Tīrtha Mahārāja, unnecessarily he was envious, whole life fighting, fighting, fighting in the court and died. Simply planning. So who has gone for the beads? Simply planning. So who has gone for the beads?

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I'll request Bajaji. You are, yourself, your wife and your sister, and our Śrīman Nārāyaṇaji, all, you are all very intelligent. You take this Bhagavad-gītā preaching seriously. That is my request. Not cut short (Hindi). No cut short. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). What is that verse?

Hari-śauri: Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14).

Prabhupāda: Ah. "Whatever you are saying," yan māṁ vadasi keśava, "I accept them." No cut short. No mutilation. Then?

Hari-śauri: Na hi te bhagavan vyaktiṁ vidur devā na dānavāḥ.

Prabhupāda: "Your personality is not understood even by the demigods, what to speak of ordinary men." Then?

Hari-śauri: Vidur devā na dānavāḥ.

Prabhupāda: What the devā? The demigods do not, what to speak of the demons, dānavāḥ.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: And we said that people are writing us so many letters ordering our books by mail. So you say do not like us, but we say they love us.

Prabhupāda: What was his reply?

Rāmeśvara: On every point he was defeated. Then this Reverend from the Lutheran Church, he said that we have invented this Kṛṣṇa religion. He said that Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man who is a sex symbol, having so many women, gopīs, wives, and that we are saying that He is God. And this is heresy, he told us, a concoction. So he was defeated in different ways also. And at the end he had to admit that "The only way to find out is if you buy their books, so everyone go buy their books and see for yourself."

Prabhupāda: No, even taking it that Kṛṣṇa is after sex, then if sex is bad, then why you are after sex? The whole world is going on after sex. How you can deny it?

Rāmeśvara: He says that sex is not for God.

Prabhupāda: Why? If sex if not there in God, then how it comes? If God created everything, so God did not create sex?

Rāmeśvara: They think it means we are saying God has a material body, because they associate sex with material body.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Devotee: I mean, the dukas(?) had just come back. (break)

Prabhupāda: Somebody asked him?

Rāmeśvara: That's a question I meant to ask, because that question will start coming up in America. They will say, "Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man. He was killed by some hunter."

Prabhupāda: So what do you answer?

Rāmeśvara: We haven't been asked yet. The answer is very difficult to explain to them.

Prabhupāda: Yesterday I was answering. You were not present?

Rāmeśvara: No. (aside:) Were you here?

Hari-śauri: No. It was during darśana.

Prabhupāda: Hm. What did I answer?

Hari-śauri: I wasn't here.

Prabhupāda: How do you answer?

Gargamuni: Well, first we have to explain that Kṛṣṇa has a transcendental body. If they don't understand that, then how can we explain Kṛṣṇa's disappearance?

Prabhupāda: Therefore I am asking how would you explain. The answer is that we living entities, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We do not die, na jāyate na mriyate vā, kadācit, at any time. We do not take birth; we do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Even by destruction of this body, we do not die. You know this? So we are part and parcel. If we are eternal, how Kṛṣṇa can be...? Hm? If my finger is eternal, how the body is not eternal? How the body can be dead? So why did He die like that, appearing as dead? That is His līlā. That He has, so many līlās. So why this līlā? Just to cheat you. You are atheist, and to keep you atheist forever, so that in your life after life you'll not understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore He is doing, just to cheat you. Because you are atheist, you cannot think of Kṛṣṇa properly. To keep you in darkness forever He manifests this līlā.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: They will find out that there is an Indian...

Prabhupāda: The atheist class...

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They'll find out, "Oh, it says God died. What is this?" Then they'll challenge, that "This is not God. Kṛṣṇa is ordinary man."

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Hari-śauri:

āsurīṁ yonim āpannā

mūḍhā janmani janmani

mām aprāpyaiva kaunteya

tato yānty adhamāṁ gatim

(BG 16.20)

"Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence."

Prabhupāda: Just to keep you everlastingly in darkness He shows this līlā, that "See? I am dying. You are right that I am a man." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11). "You rascal, mūḍha, you remain in that condition." This is explanation. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa can die? We do not die, His part and parcel.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, why don't you stop? In spite of so many measures for checking population, the population is increasing. How it is? Some years ago I read in a paper that three men are increasing every second or every minute.

Rāmeśvara: They cannot control their sex desire. And some of these methods are imperfect.

Prabhupāda: No. Sex desire cannot be controlled by ordinary man. That's a fact. But they have invented so many things to stop increase of population. Why population is increasing? That is the point. They are killing and more... They're taking contraceptive tablets and so on, so on, a vigorous arrangement for stopping birth or checking increase of population. Why every second or every minute throughout the whole world three men are increasing? That they cannot stop. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). It is indeed troublesome, but you cannot stop it. Either birth or death or disease or old age, you cannot stop. You want it. Everyone wants. Who wants to become old man like me to run on with a stick and with so many inconveniences? But I have to become old man. Who can stop it? Similarly, birth, death also, or disease... You may be proud that "We have invented medicine for cancer and...," but you cannot stop disease. That is not possible.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This is the judgment of the Chief Justice. He's not ordinary man.

Rāmeśvara: "...and the ultimate destiny of this universe." Then there is that other quote. This is also very important, by the Deputy Director of the Lok Sabha Secretariat.

Gargamuni: That Subhramaniam.

Rāmeśvara: He's a big man. And this is the national government.

Gargamuni: No, the central. Lok Sabha is like the Parliament.

Prabhupāda: Lok Sabha is Parliament. Lok Sabha means Parliament.

Rāmeśvara: Congress of the National Government.

Gargamuni: Yes. No, no, no. Central government. Yes, what you say is national.

Rāmeśvara: "This is a rare opportunity for people and leaders of every country, every race, and every community in the world to know and understand the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I would say that this encyclopedia of spiritual knowledge is more important and fundamental than the encyclopedia of any other branch of knowledge and should therefore find a rightful place not only in the public and private libraries, big and small, not only in educational and other institutions, but also in every household, and above all, in the hearts and minds of every man and woman."

Prabhupāda: And he is not ordinary man. He is...

Rāmeśvara: No. He is the Deputy of Lok Sabha Secretariat. You should write more... I have to go over this with you to get more descriptions of each place. Central Government.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (2): No, no.

Prabhupāda: You say no, but they take it like that. Even a person like Vivekananda, he said long ago that "This Vaiṣṇavism is sex religion." They misunderstand. So just try to understand. This līlā is kept in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the Tenth Canto, and middle of Tenth Canto, Thirty-fourth, Thirty-fifth Chapter. So one has to understand Kṛṣṇa first of all. So it is not for ordinary men. So we discourage these things to be discussed or presented even for ordinary men. This is our preaching. It cannot be taken as ordinary film show.

Guest (2): No, sir, he was taking it in different angle, that Kṛṣṇa was by these Vaiṣṇavas.

Prabhupāda: That's all right...

Guest (2): That is the rasa. We are talking of the rasa-līlā.

Prabhupāda: Rasa, that is not for ordinary persons. It is most confidential. So this has deteriorated. Otherwise, so many gentlemen come here... And India, they are asking, "What is God?" This is the question. "Why God was killed?" Yesterday this was the question.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, but... No, that's all right. That picture is in the book. That book is... We are translating Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And what...

Guest (1): No, even in mandir there is a big photograph of Rādhā, Hari Gopāla(?) rasa-līlā.

Prabhupāda: That is not presented in that way. So we do not say... But these warnings that... It is... We must understand it is very confidential thing. It is not for ordinary men. If we present as ordinary thing, that is distortion. Our... I have got stricture that we don't present...

Guest (2): (showing picture?) This is our... Here. You made this. This is...

Prabhupāda: This is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. That's all right. But generally, gopīs, rasa-līlā and gopīs, vastra-haraṇa-līlā...

Guest (2): No, no. Vastra-haraṇa is not...

Guest (1): All is concentrated—the Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why don't you present...? Kṛṣṇa has so many līlās. Just like... Where is our Kṛṣṇa book? You have got?

Hari-śauri: I can get a copy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (1): Who can kill?

Prabhupāda: No, he asked this question.

Guest (1): Who can kill the supreme power?

Guest (2): Oriya Bhāgavatam also it is said that no one can kill...

Prabhupāda: No, the atheist class, they ask this question: "Kṛṣṇa was killed; therefore He's ordinary man."

Guest (1): It is a story.

Prabhupāda: Not story. So you have to learn Kṛṣṇa. That is my point. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaya... (BG 7.3).

Guest (1): (Oriyan)

Guest (3) (Indian man): Our grandfather, grandmother, all were addicted to Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. But we have forgotten it.

Prabhupāda: You have forgotten, so that now you are asking, "What is God?" This is your position.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Gargamuni: His character.

Prabhupāda: But that... Because...

Gargamuni: Even in India they do. They say, "Rāma, He was better."

Prabhupāda: But what do you know about Rāma and Kṛṣṇa? You do not know anything. You are not a devotee. You have to learn the science. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati (BG 7.3). You are ordinary man. You cannot understand. Then one can criticize his father and mother also, that "My fa..." They do. Some rascal do that. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. "My father has done harm to me. By lusty desire he gave me birth, and I am suffering." They say like that. So you can in that way, you criticize your father and mother. But that is not law. Law is father and mother should be respected. But you rascal, you can criticize your father. You are such a rascal.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: But the intelligence is awarded from... Intelligence, according to the individual, is awarded according to pious activities?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Intelligence is developed by association, by hearing, by experiencing. Otherwise very big intelligence, he's also dull. Don't you see the big, big leaders, Gandhi and Radhakrishnan, they have no intelligence? They are misinterpreting the whole..., although they're passing as very big men, intelligent. And if you say to them that "You are not intelligent; you are wrongly interpreting Bhagavad-gītā," they will be offended. So intelligence is so dull even to such big, big men, what to speak of ordinary men? Big, big demigods, their intelligence also lacking. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, kona: "Somebody very fortunate, he can understand." Kona bhāgyavān. And another place, brahmāra durlabha prema: "Even Brahmā cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). These things are... So this intelligence is not so easy. Na janma-koṭibhiḥ sukṛtair labhyate. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). There are so many places that "To come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not so easy." It requires very, very great intelligence.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Muhammad... If somebody can hear Him, somebody can see Him also. You cannot deny because they're all senses. To hear God means with my senses we appreciate Him. Similarly, eyes are also one of the senses. Now if somebody sees Him, where is the objection? If somebody can hear Him, where is the objection if somebody can see Him? Reasonably, there is no objection. In this way... So God is omnipotent. If some of His prophet devotees wants to hear Him, he can do that, if wants to see Him, he can do that.

Pṛthu-putra: But they think the prophet as an ordinary man who received the mercy from the Lord.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without being (sic:) mercied by the God, how one can become prophet? Then he's ordinary man.

Pṛthu-putra: But they say he was an ordinary man like us up to the time that God revealed Himself to him.

Prabhupāda: Now, suppose Muhammad has heard God. He is prophet. So whatever he is speaking about his experience, you are accepting. Similarly, if somebody has seen Him, if he says that "God is like this," why you should not accept? In this way talk. God can be seen as God can be heard. You cannot say that God cannot be seen.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Not required. Caitanya Mahāprabhu denied, "I am not brāhmaṇa, I am not kṣatriya, I am not this, I am not this." He rejected. But in the Bhagavad-gītā, the cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). So we are Kṛṣṇa..., preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It must be done.

Hari-śauri: But in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's practical preaching He only induced them to chant.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible for ordinary man.

Hari-śauri: What, to simply induce people to chant?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: He only introduced just the chanting.

Prabhupāda: But who will chant? Who'll chant?

Satsvarūpa: But if they won't chant, then neither will they train up in the varṇāśrama. That's the easiest.

Prabhupāda: The chanting will be there, but you cannot expect that people will chant like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They cannot even chant sixteen rounds. (And) these rascals are going to be Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Less intelligent. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You will remain within this material world. That is Mother's kingdom. This external world is controlled by the Mother Durgā. She's in charge of this material world. So if you become a perfect devotee of Mother, you get all good chances in this material world but not eternal life. Within this material world wherever you go everything is limited, either you become Indra or Brahmā, or ant. Just like President Nixon, so long he was President he was doing everything as he liked, and now he's an ordinary man, (indistinct). This is Mother's kingdom. Is that Mr. Nixon the same Nixon when he was President? But same Nixon is he, but the atmosphere and the circumstance is the same? Does he not realize it? "How I was enjoying as President and what is my position. Everyone kicks on my face." Is that very good position? Therefore alpa. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). Antavat tu phalam. This position ultimately will be ended. Therefore less intelligent class are after this, not very intelligent men. What is time?

Hari-śauri: Twenty to eleven. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...etad anyathā ajñānam. Find out Bhagavad-gītā. This is knowledge. All other things are bogus. Otherwise how could I convince big, big scientists? They are not ordinary men, Doctor, that Svarūpa Dāmodara, one of the first-class scientists. He has got very good degree from Calcutta University, from other university, M.A.C. and other. He is very intelligent boy. He studies science very particularly, means sound knowledge. How he's attached?

Jayapatākā: This is real knowledge.

Prabhupāda: This is real knowledge. Hm.

Pradyumna: Whole thing read or just that, amānitvam adambhitvam?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ananya-yoga, ananya-bhakti, pure.

Pradyumna: Ah, vivikta.

Prabhupāda: Vivikta...

Pradyumna: Vivikta-deśa-sevitvam aratir jana-saṁsadi (BG 13.11).

Prabhupāda: Hm. Not to mix with ordinary men, aratir jana, general public. Just like this, our place—only devotion. This is vivikta, aloof from this world. We have no other business except Kṛṣṇa consc..., bhakti. And aratir jana-saṁsadi, no, mean, association with ordinary person, no association. We can go and talk of some..., for our own benefit or Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we have no business with them. Noncooperation. We go to the public for preaching, not to associate with them. To give them association, so they may be benefited. Either he may be prime minister or this or that, we have no business with them. But for our purpose we go. Big, big karmīs, life member. So we have no personal concern, but for their benefit we go there. Their hard-earned money, if something is spent for this purpose, he'll be benefited. This is our... Otherwise we have no business with them. Aratir jana-saṁsadi.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Supplied by māyā, the machine, this, that. He has nothing to do. Karaṇ... This is also Vedic mantra. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Just like I am an ordinary man. If I want to do something, I ask one or two, "Do this." I ask somebody, "Bring some money." I ask somebody that "You do this." So if an ordinary man can do, why God should do anything? Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. He has nothing to do. Na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. He can do everything, because nobody is equal to Him, but still does not do anything. Why? Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). His energy are so mighty millions that simply by indicating the energy, it will do. This is God. This is God. Just like big man, big industrialist, he simply pushes his button, and the secretary comes: "I want this." Immediately. This is... Ordinary human being can do. So why God has to do? He'll simply dance with the gopīs. That's all. That is God. He'll enjoy. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitā... That is God. Therefore everything is done by God's agent or His expansion. Otherwise God has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Simply indication. Here it is said that Īśvara, the Lord, is situated everyone's heart. He can understand "What this rascal wants." He's so kind, He's living as friend. "My dear son, please come back. Why you are desiring so many nonsense things?" But the child will not hear. He wants. Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare. He wants sense gratification this way, that way, that way, that way. So He gives him facility: "All right." And all facility. He wants to become a tiger, "All fixed." Nails, jaws, fangs—"Become a tiger." Yantra. The body is yantra, perfect yantra. That is supplied by māyā. Māyā. Daiva-netreṇa. He wants this, to give up this body. This machine is dead. Now you simply think of a tiger, and you are carried to the womb of the tiger. And the mother gives the body of a tiger. He comes out, enjoys. This is transmigration. The art is so fine.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But people are interested with the dress only. That is foolishness. That is foolishness. Suppose you are driving one car. You are driving one car, and the car is also important, but you are not the car. But if you think that you are car, then you are a foolish. You have to take care of the car so far because it is plying, it is giving you service. You must keep in order very cleanse. That's very nice. But if you simply absorb in the service of the car, you don't take care of yourself.

Guest (2): The point is for ordinary men it is very difficult to conceive of a naked soul.

Prabhupāda: So ordinary man is foolish. Learned man is intelligent

Guest (2): But it is very difficult to think of a naked soul.

Prabhupāda: Naked, there is no question of... Naked soul is there, but you have no eyes to see it. Naked soul is there, but it is so small you cannot see it. The dimension of the naked soul is given in the śāstra. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So it is not possible to see by your these present eyes. But there is. There is no doubt about it.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But this miśri water, ḍāb water, that is natural. So you keep in stock ḍāb water, miśri water always. Our, this scientific program is giving me extra strength to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like you are giving more stress to science in recent years than previously.

Prabhupāda: That is required for convincing the modernized man. To ordinary man, the logic, "There is no God, I cannot see," that we have defied.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. That you defied years ago, from the beginning.

Prabhupāda: There is child, there is mother—there must be father. There is no logic. This is logic. Because without father there cannot be the child. Three things required—mother, father and child. Child means must be father and mother. Mother is there, the child is born, where is the father? We know who is father, what is His name, what is His activities. That is our advancement. And "We do not know," that means you are not a respectable, wise chap. You do not know your father's name. Any respectable man in the court or anywhere, the father's name immediately... "Your name?" "Yes." "Your father's name?" Is it not? If he does not know his father's name, that means he is not a respectable. He has no respectable position. Anyone who does not know what is God, he is just like the same child who does not know his father's name. Father must be there. That you do not know. You do not know, that is your foolishness. So anyone who does not know who is his father, what is God, he is not a respectable man. It may be that you have not seen your father, but you cannot deny, that without father you were born. This is no logic. Is that logic?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Logical.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But what about in Bengali, there must be...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is rubbish. They do not what is Bhāgavata. How they will translate? Professional translation is not. Bhāgavata-pado giya bhāgavata sthāne.(?) "Whose life is Bhāgavata, go there and read Bhāgavata." That is the recommendation. That is the order of Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī. Ordinary men, what they will understand, Bhāgavata? Bhāgavata is not for ordinary men. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavam vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). In the beginning it is said unless one is paramahaṁsa, he cannot understand. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām.

Guru dāsa: Yes. Tapomaya has taken the boat out. The boat in Bengal, the boat program.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.

Gargamuni: But Jayapatākā is asking for Bhavānanda to come and give extra inspiration.

Prabhupāda: So Bhavānanda can go. For my bodily comforts, preaching should not suffer. This can be done somebody else. Preaching is our first program.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he wanted our books in Hindi, so now they are coming. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...so much money, is it possible?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. No ordinary man could have ever done it.

Prabhupāda: In the history it is unique. Crores of rupees' property, and all over the world, buildings, temples. It is all Kṛṣṇa's. Nobody can harm them. It is not for me. There is no history. In one, ten years only, books like this, which are being received with so much adoration. They are simply Kṛṣṇa. If I want to take credit personally, this is wrong, sir. So money does not come in that way unless Kṛṣṇa gives. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrībhiḥ (SB 1.8.26). If Kṛṣṇa wants, He can give the whole world. My father used to say, "God has got ten hands. If He wants to take away from you, with two hands how much you will protest? And when He wants to give you with ten hands, with two hands how much you will take it?" That's a common... But people are after money.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's very popular in America.

Prabhupāda: Muktananda? Hm.

Girirāja: And, you know, he's such a rascal that he loves dogs. He keeps dogs in his āśrama, and they're...

Prabhupāda: Ordinary man.

Girirāja: Yeah, right, ordinary man, that's right. In a different dress, an ordinary man.

Prabhupāda: And our is ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhrami..., kona bhāgyavān jīva. It is not for ordinary. Anyone who understands thoroughly Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's not ordinary man. He's liberated man. It is not for ordinary man. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kona bhāgyavān: "Somebody very fortunate." Not for ordinary man. Still, we are trying to give to the mass of people as far as possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we cannot compromise to do that.

Prabhupāda: It is not for ordinary man.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And we are prepared to challenge or meet challenge of any scientist, any philosopher, any politician, anyone. It is not dogmatic.

Mr. Rajda: Not dogmatic at all.

Prabhupāda: The same: it is science. And Kṛṣṇa says, begins, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. So who can say anything against this statement? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). But unfortunately our people takes Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being, as... Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhaḥ. If we remain mūḍha, how we can be...? Because Kṛṣṇa comes just like a human being to teach us, we are taking that He's one of us. "Then I can also become Kṛṣṇa." This is going on. For so many thousands of years Kṛṣṇa is being worshiped as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are millions of temples in India for worshiping Kṛṣṇa. He is ordinary man? So many big, big leaders came and gone. Who care for them? Why Kṛṣṇa is being worshiped still? These are the questions.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We admit. Guru Mahārāja said śaktyāveśa-avatāra, powerful incarnation. Therefore whenever there was question of Jesus, I never disrespected Jesus. Never criticized him, because I know that he is powerful representative of God. We took it from Guru Mahārāja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your Guru Mahārāja would sometimes...

Prabhupāda: He said that Christ is śaktyāveśa-avatāra, as Buddha. How he can be otherwise? He sacrificed everything for God. He cannot be ordinary man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: Hm. That Melbourne meeting, it was... You were present?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I heard about it. With the monks, I think.

Prabhupāda: They very much appreciated. Because they saw that I have got full respect for Christ and his real disciples. And actually we have. Why not? He said, "Thou shalt not kill," and they are interpreting killing. This is going on. And they are Christians. Just see how much cheating. It is clearly written, "Thou shalt not kill." And their only business is killing, and still, they are Christians. How much cheating it is. Whatever little success is in our movement, the cause is I have not tried to cheat. Honestly, what I knew, I heard it from Guru Mahārāja and scripture, I took it. There was no cheating.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (3): Sir, do you not consider it advisable to get the judgment that the Americans have translated into Indian so we can look?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That... We require an expert lawyer. There are some technical terms. Ordinary man cannot translate. If amongst yourselves there is a lawyer, if he helps us translate, we can publish it. There are so many legal... The judgment is wonderful judgment.

Indian man (3): Historical judgment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was expecting to fight that case at least for some years, but by Kṛṣṇa's grace he has given on the first day the judgment.

Indian man (3): Was it argued on also?

Prabhupāda: No. Simply we presented our statement. I advised them that "You take my eighty-four books and present before the judge that 'Our statements are here. First of all you read these books. Then you give your judgment.'

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (5): Swamiji, there is no salvation for this country?

Prabhupāda: There is. Not everyone is misled. One who can protect himself from this misleading... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If they can understand their leaders are blind—they have no knowledge—then they'll be saved. That we are trying. And there is obstacle. When we say, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being," they take objection. They say, "Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). This is the struggle going on.

Indian man (5): So we have to leave anything in the feet of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (5): We have to leave everything...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). That is the instruction.

Indian man (5): Whatever He does, He does all.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not does. He wants you also to do. He... He does not anything. Everything is done by His... Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). He hasn't got to do anything. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca. He has got many names. Still, He acts to teach us. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. He's so kind, but as soon as He comes to teach us, we take Him as ordinary man.

Indian man (5): Is He coming again?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has already come.

Indian man (5): Eh?

Prabhupāda: He has already come—by His name. Kali-kāle kṛṣṇa nāma-rūpe avatāra.

Indian man (5): Oh, that's correct.

Prabhupāda: This Hare Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa. He's absolute. His name, His form, His attributes, His paraphernalia—they're all one. So He... This Hare Kṛṣṇa name is not different from Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Guest (1) (Indian man): There should be no objection.

Prabhupāda: But people are not following Vāsudeva. They are creating new Vāsudeva. And somebody told that Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man? Trivikrama Mahārāja or somebody told me. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, the people who are coming in at night are saying that.

Prabhupāda:

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

(SB 1.2.7)

In order to come to the position of that mahātmā, one has to render service to Vāsudeva. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ. Then jñāna-vairāgya automatically will be manifested. Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Real life means vairāgya. Just like these boys known as hippies. They are trying for vairāgya. They are coming from countries, very opulent, rich father, mother, but they do not like, inclined to vairāgya, renunciation. But renunciation must be based on knowledge, jñāna-vairāgya. So that they are lacking. They are not fixed up. But there is a tendency of vairāgya. Is it not? That is also good. (Hindi) Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, there is compulsory vairāgya. As soon as one is fifty years old, he must give up family life. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Aiye. (Hindi) Jawaharlal Nehru, up to the end of his life he wanted to remain prime minister. (Hindi with scattered English words) Practical application there are. (Hindi) (pause) (Hindi) (Hindi conversation with scattered English) Without bhakti, jñāna is never sufficient, but bhakti does not depend... Ahaituky apratihatā. It cannot be checked. (Hindi) Bhagavān is within. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). And He assures... (Hindi) The so-called jñānī, he wants to become liberated and become one with the Supreme-kāṅkṣati. When actually one is self-realized, na kāṅkṣati. Yogī kāṅkṣati. (Hindi) Bhagavān is the Supreme. We are part and parcel. So I have already given you the example, these fingers, part and parcel of the body. The only desire should be how to serve the body. That is selfishness. (Hindi) Then where is that picture? The gopīs are pushing Rādhārāṇī to Kṛṣṇa.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But how do you save enough money to get the house if you have all ornaments?

Prabhupāda: You keep it. Don't deposit in bank.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't trust this banking system.

Prabhupāda: No, formerly there was no bank practically. Now they... Generally, ordinary man, whatever little saving is there, they will invest in metal utensils, in ornament, in Benarsi sari, like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Benarsi sari also considered very valuable.

Prabhupāda: It is golden, gold border. You can... When you want to..., mean an old Benarsi sari..., you can go. There are persons, they'll take it, and they'll burn it, and the borders will take care, either silver or gold. Still in Delhi we find. Any investment were... Not this plastic plate and paper plate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Whenever they buy something, it must have value.

Prabhupāda: Must have value. That is Indian investment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the opposite of the Western.

Prabhupāda: And whatever you manufacture, you can show back. Suppose this tape recorder. If it is working, it has value. What is the use of it? Who cares for you? If it is in working order, it has value. Otherwise, (taps microphone) who cares for it? But if you have got gold, silver, metal... There was a small banker's. You require... I am poor man. I require only two rupees, but I have no money. You take one utensil and go to a small banker. He will keep this pot. "Give me two rupees." The pot is only five rupees' worth, so he'll keep it. He'll give you two rupees. So your immediate necessity is... This way, Indian economics.

Room Conversation with Alice Coltrane -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says, "Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion." Purport. "The mahātmā, or great soul, cannot be manufactured by rubber-stamping an ordinary man. His symptoms are described here. A mahātmā is always engaged in chanting the glories of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead. He has no other business. He is always engaged in the glorification of the Lord. In other words, he is not an impersonalist. When the question of glorification is there, one has to glorify the Supreme Lord..."

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...one has to glorify the Supreme Lord, praising His holy name, His eternal form, His transcendental qualities, and His uncommon pastimes. One has to glorify all these things. Therefore a mahātmā is attached to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One who is attached to the impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord, the brahma-jyotir, is not described as mahātmā in the Bhagavad-gītā. He is described in a different way in the next verse. The mahātmā is always engaged in different activities of devotional service, as described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, hearing and chanting about Viṣṇu, not a demigod or human being. That is devotion: śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, smaraṇam, and remembering Him. Such a mahātmā has firm determination to achieve at the ultimate end the association of the Supreme Lord in any one of the five transcendental rasas. To achieve that success, he engages all activities—mental, bodily and vocal, everything—in the service of the Supreme Lord, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. That is called full Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

In devotional service there are certain activities which are called determined, such as fasting on certain days, like the eleventh day of the moon, Ekādaśī, and on the appearance day of the Lord, etc. All these rules and regulations are offered by the great ācāryas for those who are actually interested in getting admission into the association of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the transcendental world. The mahātmās, great souls, strictly observe all these rules and regulations, and therefore they are sure to achieve the desired result.

As described in the second verse of this chapter, this devotional service is not only easy, but it can be performed in a happy mood. One does not need to undergo any severe penance and austerity. He can live this life in devotional service, guided by an expert spiritual master, and in any position, either as a householder or a sannyāsī, or a brahmacārī; in any position and anywhere in the world, he can perform this devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead and thus become actually mahātmā, a great soul.

Prabhupāda: So all instructions are there. If you read it carefully, you get. But don't manufacture in your own way. That will not be successful. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Abhirāma: So basically he explained when the difficult times will come, according to the planets. Then he made it very clear that beyond the planetary influence, it would be very difficult for calculations for a person in your position. For an ordinary man he can say very clearly. And he can say for you which planets will disturb, but he cannot say for sure how much they will affect, because being a saintly person, there is naturally some resistance to these influences. So he made that very clear, that you should not think that these are final. So he said, according to your birth, the longevity shows very clearly. And then he gave a date. The longevity is eighty-one years, five months and twenty-nine days, which means February 28, 1978, six months from now. This is according to birth and stars arrangement. But on this point he made it very clear that this was from your birth, this was set, but it can change. Due to pious activities, due to the hand of Kṛṣṇa, this can change. So... And then he described that during the next six months, the first week of September, Saturn will pass over Ketu, and it will agitate the influence of Ketu even more. So the first week of September the resistance will go down, will become weaker. Then he mentioned that there may be some trouble from..., maybe financial or maybe from juniors, from subordinates. Then this period, if you can pass, through 1978, then there is four or five more years clear ahead, if you can pass through '78. This was what he said, that after '78 there would be four or five years which would be more or less clear of difficulties. He said that if you can pass through 1978, there after that there would be four or five years clear, without much difficulty. And he said according to birth arrangement, the fatal date is February 28, 1978, in six months. At that time there's what's called the completion of a Ketu mahā-daśā, which began at your birth. But he stressed several times that we should not take these calculations to be final on account of your position. He said these are for ordinary men. He said it is always the case that a man of spiritual advancement will have the ability to overcome his fate. He quoted the case of his father, who was in the Śrī Sampradāya, and he was apparently very pious and he lived so many years beyond his fatal date. And even so many astrologers had given the calculation, but still, he went on because of... He said he would fast on ekādaśī and so many days and so much japa, like that. So he said for a man of your position he could not even say for sure. He said that definitely the hand of Kṛṣṇa would be involved. So like this, he seemed to have a very sober idea. And he was hopeful that the blue sapphire would have some beneficial effect, at least to relieve you to some degree. He thought that by now you should have noticed a little bit at least. (break) ...besides the gem, there is a good Ayurvedic physician. He can also relieve the effects. That they know the art if you can find the proper man. I inquired if there is a proper man in this district. He said he didn't know anyone in this area. He knows of a man in Delhi. I took his address, and I tried to contact him, but I have not yet contacted him. He was not available. However, we have contacted a man... We read the report to you the other night. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa read you when we were upstairs? He was suggesting the pearl and the oxidized gold and bark of Arjuna tree. That man is the chief physician of this big Ayurvedic hospital in Delhi. He's the chief resident physician there. He lives there at the hospital and he's in charge. He has expressed a serious interest in you, and he's a very, very pious man. He wants to come to visit Vṛndāvana. His wife is an Ayurvedic physician, he is the chief physician of the hospital, and there is another professor of Āyurveda. They all want to see if they can offer some suggestion. So on Sunday...

Prabhupāda: Why not bring them?

Abhirāma: Yes. On Sunday we have arranged. They will come for a visit of Vṛndāvana, and they will come to see you, to see if they can relieve you of some difficulty. As far as we could find in Delhi, these are the most reputed men, and they are actively practicing and teaching. They are recognized.

Prabhupāda: Make that arrangement. Yes. On Sunday?

Abhirāma: Yes, on Sunday, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Today is Thursday. So these were the major points, Śrīla Prabhupāda. For six months there's trouble, especially in first week of September. And if you can pass through '78, then he sees four or five years ahead clear.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means divine intervention, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: The chart is given. The calculation there is finished. That doesn't matter. Rather, if I am finished now, it will be glorious.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I understand that you go to the royal family and talk with them for hours. So it is very good sign.

Parivrājakācārya: Yes. There's... Some people in their family are very good, and they're very interested in learning about Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They can do... They can do very good things for the world if they simply have knowledge of what to do. So we're trying to preach to intelligent people.

Prabhupāda: Yes, intelligent. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). What intelligent man takes up, so ordinary man, ordinary generally follow. Bhagavad-gītā is meant for rājarṣi, not for foolish. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Not for a so-called loafer class. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham. That is being mistaken. Bhagavad-gītā should be taught to such royal family, and if they take up, others will take up. Hm? Ātreya Ṛṣi?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Do you follow?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: This is a good chance that you have got, a connection with royal family, and if you turn them to saintly, then the work is successful. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Not that third-class foolish can understand what is Bhagavad-gītā.