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Ordinary man (Conversations 1967 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Advaita comes in the scene to take bath in the Ganges and begins to dance. "Oh, my mission is now fulfilled! My mission is now fulfilled!" He'll talk. He was very sorry to see the condition of the people that everyone is engaged simply for material sense gratification. Nobody is engaged in love of Godhead. So he wanted to rectify their behavior, but he thought that "I am ordinary man, what can I do? If Kṛṣṇa Himself comes, then He can do it." Therefore he worshiped Kṛṣṇa, and he simply offered Ganges water and tulasī leaf. In this way Kṛṣṇa has taken His incarnation as Lord Caitanya. So he has understood now at this moment Lord Caitanya is now taken His appearance. So he was dancing, "Now my mission is fulfilled. Now my mission is fulfilled."

Hayagrīva: That's Advaita.

Prabhupāda: Advaita. Lunar eclipse, everyone taking bath in the Ganges and chanting.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Interviewer: Isn't it difficult to belong to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and exist in this world we must exist in?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the thing is that persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness anywhere, even they are put into a very uncomfortable position, they are not suffering in the same way as ordinary man.

Interviewer: Oh, we have people who want to talk to you. Caller, you're on the air with the Swami on KGO.

Caller (Gargamuni again): Thank you. Hello, Swamiji?

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Gargamuni: What is the perfection of this life?

Prabhupāda: The perfection of this life is to understand oneself, what I am. This is the beginning. Why I am suffering? If there is any solution of this suffering? And there are so many things. These questions should be there. Unless a man is awakened to these questions, that "What I am? Why I am suffering? Wherefrom I have come, and where I have to go?" then he's considered on the animal level. Because animals, they have no such questions. It is in the human form of life these questions are there. And their answers are all there in the scriptures. So if we are inquisitive and follow the answers from authoritative sources, then the solution of life is there.

Questions and Answers -- September 6, 1968, New York:

Candanacarya: ...to know something about Kṛṣṇa. (indistinct) I think you have to know something about Kṛṣṇa before you know Him to love Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I explained. For ordinary neophyte devotees... This is the highest stage. The stage of the gopīs or the cowherd boys playing with Kṛṣṇa, oh, they are kṛta-punya-puñjāḥ. Many, many lives they have undergone many types of sacrifices, austerities, penances, and then they have come to that stage. That stage is not ordinary stage. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtya dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena, māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ (SB 10.12.11). He is describing when Kṛṣṇa was playing with His cowherds boy. So he is describing that "These cowherds boy—who are they? They are living entities who have amassed volumes and volumes of pious activities." Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. "After many, many lives Just like bank balance increases, similarly, one who has increased the balance of pious activities for many, many thousands of lives, oh, such persons are now playing with Kṛṣṇa. They have taken the body of His cowherds boy, transcendental spiritual body, and just they are playing with Kṛṣṇa. And who is Kṛṣṇa?" Itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtya: "The great saints and sages who are trying to understand the Supreme Brahman, here is Kṛṣṇa. That Supreme Brahman is here, playing." Itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhanubhutya dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena: "The impersonalist Brahman is... Because Kṛṣṇa's effulgence is impersonal Brahman, so here is He." And dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ: "Those who are devotees, those who have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the master, for them here is Kṛṣṇa." And māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa: "And those who are materialistic—they simply think Kṛṣṇa is ordinary boy or man—He is also there. But who are these boys? They are playing with the same person who is Brahman, who is Bhagavān, or who is ordinary man, according to different calculation. But these boys who are playing with Him, they have accumulated many, many lives' heaps of pious activities." They are not ordinary men. So all these gopīs, all the cowherds boy in Vṛndāvana, they are not ordinary living entities. They have approached that stage after many, many pious activities. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ. After brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Their position is different.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:
Prabhupāda: The Bhāgavata says therefore, even the great personalities like Brahmā, they are also bewildered to understand the personality. He, Brahmā also heard that at Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa has appeared and He is acting as a cowherd boy. He was also astonished. "Oh, my Lord? He has become a cowherd boy?" So he came to check. He, I mean to say, took away all the cowherd boys and cows and everything. And after a few seconds he came, he said Kṛṣṇa is playing in the same way. And although the, I mean, stolen cowherd boys and cows they, by the, I mean to say, energy of māyā, by influence of Brahmā, they were kept in a secret cave. They were sleeping. But Kṛṣṇa is playing. That means He has manifested again with the cowherd boys and cows. Then he was convinced, "Yes, He is my Lord." Then Brahma-stava is there. Ānanda cinmaya rasa pratibhāvitābhis tābhirya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). So Kṛṣṇa can expand in many, many thousand times. What Brahmā will do by stealing His... No, that is not possible. So Brahmā was also convinced. These things you'll find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Brahma-vimohana. Even Brahmā is bewildered, what to speak of ordinary men like us. So Kṛṣṇa-līlā, to understand... There is no need of understanding. Simply you love Kṛṣṇa, then the whole business finished. Just like if you touch fire, if you understand it or not understand it, the warmness is there. Similarly, either you understand Kṛṣṇa or do not understand Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter. Simply if you love Kṛṣṇa, then your life is perfect. That's all.
Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Material consciousness means forgetting God. When one forgets God, that is material consciousness. Material consciousness is called māyā. Actually one should not forget. But if he forgets somehow or other, that is material consciousness. Naturally nobody forgets his father and mother. But if, somehow or other, he forgets, that is a special circumstances and that is called māyā, illusion. Just like any one of you who are existing, you must have a father and mother. That is a fact. Without father and mother, your existence cannot be. Now, if you cannot say who is your father and mother, if you do not know, this forgetfulness, this is called māyā. Actually it should not happen, but somehow or other, if you are asked, "Who is your parents?" You cannot say. This is called māyā. But there must be some father and mother. Without father and mother, there cannot be an existence. You cannot deny that. You cannot say, "Oh, I have no father and mother." That is not possible. You may not know who is your father, mother. That is a different thing. But you cannot say, "Oh, I have no father, mother." So this denial, that "I don't believe in God," is a existence like that, one who has forgotten his father and mother. That is māyā, and that is material consciousness. Denying God in different way, "There is no God," that is also denial. "I don't believe in God"—that is also denial. "God is impersonal, void," anyway, whatever you say in that way, that is all insanity, māyā. Maya means insanity. Another meaning of māyā means insanity. Just like when a man becomes insane, that is false. It is expected that he should not be insane. By treatment he is brought again to his original consciousness. Similarly, māyā means insanity, forgetfulness of God. And by Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment he comes to the original consciousness. He becomes a cured man. Actually māyā means which has no existence. Māyā has no existence. But sometimes it is there. Just like the sky's cover. This covering is not reality. The reality is this sky, clear sky, but somehow it is now covered. You cannot see the clear sky. So there is temporary, temporary illusion. Now, if I see the cloud only and if I say, "Oh, there is no sun. There is no illumination," or "There is no clear sky," that is insanity. Because I cannot see-under certain circumstances, I deny it—that is my insanity. Therefore you have to approach to a man who knows that there is sunlight, there is sun, there is clear sky... If you go there... You require all this education, knowledge. By knowledge one transcends māyā, or material existence. What is the difference between ordinary man and Kṛṣṇa conscious man? They are also living in this world, in this apartment. Everything is being utilized like others. We are also eating, sleeping also. But what is the difference? Our difference—that we accept that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa; others do not. That's all. That is māyā. Everything actually belongs to Kṛṣṇa. He does not know. He thinks, "It belongs to me," or "This, my nation, this, my country, this, that," so many things. He is manufacturing. And we know the simple truth, that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So let everything be offered to Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: I'll speak and you'll also speak.

Allen Ginsberg: You might not like what I say. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: No you say your experience, how you're experiencing. That's all.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes. Okay.

Prabhupāda: Yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ. You have got Kṛṣṇa's blessings upon you. You are not ordinary man.

Allen Ginsberg: I'm not certain that I'm worthy of that, Swamiji.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But I know that you are not ordinary man.

Allen Ginsberg: Well... I've only recently stopped smoking, by the way, finally. With that car crash, I quit smoking. But I haven't stopped eating meat. So what is the intelligence of meat?

Prabhupāda: You remain with us at least for three months and you'll forget your... You remain with us for three months. (laughter) With your associates, you just come to Vṛndāvana. We shall live together.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: One scene you have to show that in the Ganges water people are taking bath, and there is on the sky beginning of the moon eclipse, lunar eclipse. And they are all chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and taking bath. And exactly at that time Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared. This is one scene. And the appearance of Caitanya Mahāprabhu should be underneath a tree. Under this scene, this scene, one... Advaita Prabhu's wife, Śrīvāsa's wife, they were elderly, and all other women of the village, they immediately came with presentation. And some of the demigods, they also came, I mean to say, disguising themselves as ordinary men, with presentation. And His father got so many valuable presentations. And then again, some of the professional dancers, they came. So he distributed charity to them. In this way, that function... Try to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Was Nārada there? Did Nārada Muni come?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nārada Muni also came. You can show that. Yes. all the devatas, all the demigods came. Nārada Muni, Brahmā, Śiva. They came in disguise, and their wife, Savitri, and then Umā. Umā is the wife of Lord Śiva. In that way you can show so many demigods and their wives coming. Yes.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Oh, Hrishikesh. Hrishikesh is also one of the pilgrimage. And there is similarly Kurukṣetra near Delhi. Still that place is there. And that is a place of pilgrimage from the Vedic times. In the Vedas also it is stated, kuru-kṣetre dharmam yajayet. If you want to function in a religious ceremony, just go to Kurukṣetra. So it is a place of pilgrimage. Now the name is there. The adjective dharma-kṣetra, it is from Vedic age. Then the Pāṇḍavas and the Kauravas, they are historical persons. The history is there, Mahābhārata. Then where is the question of interpreting Kurukṣetra as "this body," and the Pāṇḍavas as "the senses"? Where do you get this opportunity to interpret? So these things are going on. But we object, "Why should you interpret in that way when the facts are there?" That means Bhagavad-gītā is very popular book. One has got his own philosophy. He wants to prove it through Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on. There are so many interpretations, 664. Everyone thinks that "I can interpret in my own way." Why? Why this should be? We say, "No. You cannot interpret." Then what is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? The author of Bhagavad-gītā did not leave it for being interpreted by a third-class man. He is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. He said everything clearly. Why an ordinary man should interpret His word? That is our objection. Therefore we present Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. The MacMillan Company wanted to shorten. (Chuckling) Because they are merchants. They wanted to minimize. Otherwise the book was very big. They wanted to make it only four hundred. Therefore half of the ślokas was not nicely explained. But next time we are going to publish in large and revised edition of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We must explain everything. So the Bhagavad-gītā is very, very high-class philosophy and theology. Social, political, science—everything is there. It is very nice. And everything is clear. It is explained by Kṛṣṇa. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That's all. We have not manufactured anything.

Room Conversation -- September 24, 1969, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like... What to speak of ordinary man. President Kennedy. Oh, how much labor he had to undergo to occupy that post, how much money he spent to become president. But he had to quit his family, his wife, his state, his post. So this is going on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). For sometimes we are engaged in this way; then again we are annihilated. Again begin another life, enter into another mother's womb, construct another body, then come out, then again begin work, again the same thing, digging and piling, digging and piling, again going away. Is that very good business? This is the karmīs. Karmīs means worker, fruitive worker. They want some result for their work. They are called karmīs. So the karmīs are engaged in this way. (Doorbell rings) In Bhagavad-gītā these karmīs have been described as rascals, mūḍha. Mūḍha. Because they do not know why they are digging, why they are piling and why they are leaving again everything. You can sit here, in the corner. I, I... Ask these boys, yes. This is the problem. The whole world is engaged very busy. Any city you go, they're very busy. The motor car is going this way, that way, and everywhere is constructing and so many things are going on. But if you put this question, "Why you are doing this business, digging somewhere and piling somewhere, again leaving the whole thing?"... (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. They have no answer.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

rabhupāda: That is the highest, topmost type of yoga. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata āntarātmanā, śraddhāvān bhajate yo mam sa me yuktatamo mataḥ: (BG 6.47) "Anyone," Kṛṣṇa says, "who is thinking of Me always within his heart, with devotion and love, he is the topmost yogi." Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, as soon as you chant Kṛṣṇa and hear it, immediately you think of. And the chanting is not done by any ordinary man. Unless one has love and devotion for Kṛṣṇa, he cannot chant. You just study with this verse. Śraddhāvān bhajate yo mam, āntarātmanā: "Within, he is topmost." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are training people to become the topmost yogis.

Guest (3): Do they have to practice every day?

Prabhupāda: The practice is very simple. Anyone, when you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, even child joins. Even a small child, he also claps and joins. Therefore it is recommended in the śāstras, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21). In this age nobody can meditate actually. It is very difficult. Maybe one or two persons can meditate, but that is not for all. But here Kṛṣṇa conscious, the chanting, is so nice, that even a child can take part. It doesn't require that he should be educated, he should be rich or he should be enlightened, no. As he is, simply if he takes part in this... Even woman. We were chanting. There was some roaring. As soon as we begin chanting, it stopped. This is authorized. This is recommended.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to learn what is the birth of Kṛṣṇa. You do not know. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). You do not know what is the birth. You are thinking that He is, like ordinary man He has taken birth. Otherwise why does He say, janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ? Nobody knows what is His birth? He thinks He's... Just like a child sees daily that the sun rises from the eastern side—therefore eastern side is the father of sun. Is eastern side father of the sun? Sun is always there, but you see in the morning it is appearing from the eastern side. That's all. It is your angle of vision, not that sun is born, taking birth from the eastern side. Sun is always there in the sky. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is always there but to the foolish person it appears that He is born. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā. Ajo 'pi: "I have no birth." Ajaḥ. This very word is used. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. So how you can compare Kṛṣṇa's birth like ordinary birth? If anyone knows what is Kṛṣṇa's birth he becomes liberated. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ. So that knowledge is not tattvataḥ knowledge, that Kṛṣṇa's birth. Kṛṣṇa's birth is every moment. Just like sun. Now here it is not sunshine but in another place the sunshine is rising. So is that the birth, or when the sun will rise here, that will be birth? Which will be the birth of sun?

Guest (3): It will always be there.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Therefore He is one, both body and soul, one. That is one.

Guest (1): Swamiji, material aspect in your understanding, they are one?

Prabhupāda: Therefore He is nonmaterial. Therefore He has spoken... No, no, if you compare with Him ordinary man, then at once you become a mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. No, you say... This is the saying of Bhagavad-gītā. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā manuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ (BG 9.11). (Hindi) "Because I have taken this human form of life, the rascals, they think I am a human being." It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Guest (2): I think... As my understanding of this aspect is concerned, He says, "When I adopt this medium through which I give this jñāna, mūḍhā-matī do not understand Me."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, mūḍhā-matī, how to understand?

Guest (2): "Cannot recognize Me."

Prabhupāda: Suppose I am mūḍhā-matī, so how I am to understand?

Guest (2): Yes, but Kṛṣṇa as a body form could be seen and could be recognized by people as such. So there was no question of not understanding him.

Prabhupāda: Thing is that whatever I have understood about Kṛṣṇa I haven't got to learn from you.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Devotee (1): It's just that you don't look very... You don't look like your normal self. There's no...

Prabhupāda: Sometimes they do business, simply water they inject. Yes. Simply water and take fee. They know there is no necessity of medicine; still, they will inject some water, distilled water, and take the fees. I have seen the doctors and some, I mean to say, ordinary man, illiterate. "What kind of treatment you want? Injection or medicine?" So naturally, he will say, "The best one. I want to..." "Then you have to take injection."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or both. You might get both.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen, they have spoken like that. Because the patient will think, "Oh, I take injection, I'll be very quickly cured." He will canvass like that. Because if he gives a bottle of medicine, that will not be very costly. But injection in his hand, he'll (have) at least five rupees, that much. So he'll canvass like that, "What kind of treatment you want, injection or ordinary medicine." So he'll say, "Sir, best medicine I want." "Then you take injection." That's all. It is a fact that the whole human civilization is a society of cheaters and cheated. That's all. Any field. mayaiva vyavaharite. The whole world in this Kali-yuga: mayaiva vyavaharite. Vyavaharite means ordinary dealings, there will be cheating. Ordinarily, there will be cheating. Daily affairs. Not to speak of very great things. Ordinary dealings, there will be cheating. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, mayaiva vyavahari. The sooner you get out of this scene is better. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long you live, you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and preach Kṛṣṇa's glories, and that's all. Otherwise, you should know that this is a dangerous place. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ (SB 10.14.58). In every step there is danger.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like these flowers. These flowers the devotees are bringing to their spiritual master, to God. They are not enjoying. Ordinary man, if he gets a flower, he'll put it in the pocket. How... You see? That is the difference of God consciousness. The flower is the same, but use is different.

Guest (2): What's your view, if I may ask, on, for emotion in, of, an ideal, a Christian ideal and so on through the media. Will you use television and radio to condemn things like racial intolerance and the Vietnam War? Do you believe that you should become involved in these things? Could you issue a statement and say that the movement condemns so and so? Do you believe getting into anything in the world spectrum to comment on things?

Revatīnandana: Do you follow the question, Śrīla Prabhupāda? His question is do we concern ourselves with particular problems in the world, there's the war in Vietnam, there's racial discrimination? Do we make statements to condemn this war or to condemn that discrimination?

Prabhupāda: No. Thing is that there are so many problems. Our proposition is, when you become God conscious, then all problems automatically solved. We don't take the problems. We take the... Just like disease. There are many symptoms. A man is suffering from a particular disease. He has a headache, he has this pain, this pain, that pain.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Reporter: Then, sir, if everybody (indistinct) and that comment, "Believe me," that...

Prabhupāda: No. Why do I say...? You have to, you have to see whether, whether this person is worthy of believing. (laughter)

Reporter: Whether the guru is right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore guru, guru cannot be any ordinary man.

Reporter: That's right.

Prabhupāda: That guru cannot be. That guru's designation is there in the Vedas, that tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). Anyone who is inquisitive for understanding... Suppose if you are inquisitive to understand really what is Lalaji, then you must approach to a person who knows Lalaji. Then you will understand Lalaji. And if you approach somebody who does not know Lalaji, then he may give you misinformation. So guru is that who knows Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you will not be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. That Kṛṣṇa also very easily you can find out. Take what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa teaches Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna directly. Now if you believe Arjuna, then you understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa taught Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, and why Arjuna was taught, that is also said by Kṛṣṇa, that bhakto 'si priyo 'si: (BG 4.3) "Because you are My devotee." Kṛṣṇa did not go to teach Bhagavad-gītā to a Vedantist. He went to teach to Arjuna. He was a family man, he was a soldier, but why he was selected? He, Kṛṣṇa said, bhakto 'si. So if you approach a Kṛṣṇa bhakta like Arjuna, then you will understand Kṛṣṇa; otherwise you will not. They are understanding Kṛṣṇa through me, not before me. But if they or some of them, "something," some of them "something," they may be very big scholar, but they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Reporter: There should be...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are (indistinct), it is better to surrender and be peaceful. (break) ...here, there, here, there, here. Kṛṣṇa says, "No. That surrender will not help you. Just surrender to Me, you will be happy." So intelligent person will feel that "If I have to surrender, why not to Kṛṣṇa? Why surrender to some foolish man? Let me surrender to Kṛṣṇa. If my business is to surrender, I cannot do without surrender." That is intelligence. That Kṛṣṇa says,

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ
(BG 7.19)

Therefore who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he is mahātmā. It is very rare mahātmā, su-durlabhaḥ. So anyone who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they are mahātmā. They are not ordinary men. So mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ.

Reporter: Sir... (break)

Prabhupāda: We have to surrender, that's a fact. But we refuse to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is our disease. He is not free, just like in a state, just like in Mahatma Gandhi's time, so many started civil disobedience, but the government brought them all into prison, and they obliged them to obey. Similarly, our position is that... (end)

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Subject to your symptom. (laughter) (Hindi)

Guest: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Guest: We're just asking questions and questions. (indistinct) Endeavor to understand it. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Bhagavān's rāsa-līla is very confidential. It is not for ordinary man. (Hindi) So, step by step (Hindi). Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa rāsa-līla, Kṛṣṇa with young girls dancing, embracing, kissing, just like ordinary novel and nātha. They like it. So these professional Bhāgavata readers, they take advantage of the people's inferior quality, of their weakness, and make money. That's all.

Guest: That's why I wanted to know...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They make money.

Guest: ...the real significance, that spiritual...

Prabhupāda: The significance..., there is no significance. These professional Bhāgavata readers, they make money from the public because public wants to hear all these things. Just like we read a novel-a woman is embracing a man, or kissing or having sex. They like it. Therefore they go the Bhāgavata Tenth Canto immediately. Their Bhāgavata reading is professional, not understanding of Kṛṣṇa. If you want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then go step by step, one by one. First of all read Bhagavad-gītā, try to understand, and you surrender to Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa says, then you enter.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Dr. Singh: It is the attitude with which one does it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the definition of bhakti. Bhakti means hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ, that is bhakti. Now to serve Kṛṣṇa, Hṛṣīkeśa, that requires qualification. Just like you are king, if somebody wants to serve you as your secretary, he has to have specific qualifications. Not ordinary man. Similarly, bhakti means to serve Kṛṣṇa. So everyone can serve Kṛṣṇa provided he is qualified. And what is that qualification?

Dr. Singh: Love of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That qualification... Love of Kṛṣṇa is not so easy. We have to reach that point after many processes. Exactly in the same way, to become a secretary of the president, personal assistant, it is not very easy job. It requires some qualification. Similarly, to serve Kṛṣṇa, it requires some qualification. And what is that qualification? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam: (CC Madhya 19.170) when we give up our designation. At the present moment, we are all designated: "I am Indian," "I am Christian," "I am American," "I am Pakistani," "I am Hindustani." These designations are going on. When you give up your designation, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170), that is mukti. "I am not Indian," "I am not Christian," "I am not Pakistani," "I am not Hindu."

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Yadubara: Many other societies make compromises. Many other religious groups make compromises in their doctrine.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they have no clear idea. They cannot push forward their concept. Just like the other day (indistinct) lady, she asked if Kṛṣṇa was a naughty boy. Yes, because He is God He must be naughty boy. Otherwise, wherefrom this idea of naughty boy comes if that quality is not in God? God is the origin of everything, creator of everything. So if He hasn't got this naughtiness in His person, then how this thing comes to be? That is the Vedānta version, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme Absolute Truth is that from which or from whom everything emanates. So wherefrom this naughtiness comes if it is not in the person of God? Wherefrom this stealing propensity comes if it is not in God? But because He is absolute, His stealing is also as good as his blessing. Mākhan-cora. Kṛṣṇa is stealing butter, that is worshiped, mākhana, by the very name. Just like in another temple, Kṣīra-cora-gopīnātha. Gopīnātha is known as condensed milk thief, Kṣīra-cora. He is famous by the name cora, thief. But that cora and this cora, you cannot compare. He is famous as cora, or thief, but thousands of people go every day to worship that cora, that thief. And in the material, if one is known as thief, then thousands of people will beat him with shoes. (laughter) That is the difference. If you say, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa was a thief, then I can become a thief," then your will be beating of shoes on your head, and Kṛṣṇa will be eternally worshiped because He is thief. That is the difference. That is Absolute. He will be worshiped as thief, and He will be worshiped as very honest. That is Absolute. (aside:) No, no, this (indistinct) is not good. I will take little fruit.

Kṛṣṇa is a woman-hunter. That is the highest pastimes of Kṛṣṇa, rāsa-līlā. But here if a man becomes woman-hunter, he will be most abominable person. That is the mistake of the people: they consider Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11). They are rascals, fools, mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam. This sense has to be learned-Kṛṣṇa, how He is Absolute in all circumstance. Kṛṣṇa is teaching, "Just go and tell little lie to Droṇācārya." People will be surprised, how God is teaching somebody that "You go and tell this lie"? So they become bewildered. So one has to understand actually what is Kṛṣṇa's position in all circumstances. That requires intelligence.

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Devotee: Whether the British should have been forcibly removed from India.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is ordinary duty. If you encroach upon my freedom, I have the right to kill you. That is recommended. That is clearly stated in the śāstras. If anyone sets fire in another's house, if anyone kidnaps his wife, if anyone takes his money—so many list—he is to be killed. There is no question. He can be killed immediately. That action-reaction is going on in the material world, that is a different thing. That is karma-bandha. But in devotion, there is no karma-bandha. As Kṛṣṇa is free from all reaction, similarly Kṛṣṇa's devotee who wants to satisfy Kṛṣṇa only, he is also free from all reaction. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāva-manyeta karhicit (SB 11.17.27). "The ācārya is as good as I am," Kṛṣṇa says. Nāva-manyeta karhicit, "Never neglect him." Na martya-buddhyāsūyeta, "Never be envious of the ācārya, thinking him as anything of this material world." Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān (SB 11.17.27). Therefore, ācārya's position is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **. Ācārya is always cautious that he may not be subject to criticism. But who criticizes ācārya, he becomes immediately offender. Because he is playing the part of ācārya, he plays as far as possible. But sometimes for preaching work, he might have to do something which is not consistent. But if he is criticized, then that man who criticizes, he becomes... Of course, he must be ācārya, not a bogus. Ordinary man cannot transgress the laws, but Kṛṣṇa and His representative, ācārya, might be sometimes seen that he has transgressed. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān (SB 11.17.27). Vaiṣṇavera kriyā, mudrā vijñeha nā bujhaya. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Vaiṣṇava ācārya, his activities is not understood even by the wisest man.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda? The temple is calling on the phone. They want to know if you are coming to that...

Prabhupāda: No. No. It is too late. Just like there is higher studies in science, in so many departments of knowledge. It is not that mass of people is interested in Ph.D. degree. But if one is interested in Ph.D. degree, therefore government provides him: "Yes, in university, you come." That is the real facility. So if anyone is interested to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, why it should be denied? Why this should be obstructed because I do not like it? In big, big universities, maybe in higher studies, there may be one student, and for that one student they are maintaining four professors. Each professor is paid two thousand dollars. Is it not a fact? What do you think, you professor. Is it not a fact? Some department of knowledge is maintained, even it is not paying. Is it not? There are so many departments simply for research work because the government knows it is important thing. It may not be for the mass of people, but at least one, two intelligent class of men, he pays, qualified: "Let them have this opportunity." So this is like that. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not for ordinary man, but it is very important movement. Those who are interested, why they should be denied? It should be maintained. We cannot expect everyone can give up all these bad habits, illicit sex, illicit meat-eating, or drink, or intoxication, gambling. That is not expected. But if one wants to be for higher status of life, why he should be denied? This is not a bad thing. Why the city fathers are thinking that this should be stopped? All right, let us now... So my appeal to you, that you are journalist; you at least study this, our movement, and present very nicely. That is my request.

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Śyāmasundara: Buddha, Lord Buddha.

Prabhupāda: Yes. About Lord Buddha is also mentioned in the śāstra that Lord Buddha will appear in Gayā Pradesh, in the province of Gayā, and his business will be to cheat the atheists. That is described. Now, how he is cheating? He is the incarnation of God, but he is preaching amongst people who don't believe in God. So he is cheating in this way, that "Yes, there is no God. You hear me." But he is God. The people amongst whom he is preaching, they don't believe in God, but they accept Lord Buddha. But he is God. So by cheating, he is making others to worship God. God is there. But superficially they think, "We don't believe in God. We believe in Lord Buddha." And Lord Buddha is God. Therefore in the Bhāgavata it is said that his business will be cheat the atheist class of men. Sura-dviṣām. Sammohita-sura-dviṣām. Sammohita means bewilder. But his philosophy is that to make the people sinless. Ahiṁsā. "Don't kill." That is the greatest sin. So he is propagating that "Let these people be saved from the greatest sinful activities." Lord Buddha appeared... He also appeared in India. Why? He was also Hindu. He was kṣatriya, king. He promulgated this philosophy, ahiṁsā, when there was unnecessary killing of animals. According to Vedas, animal can be killed in sacrifice. That also to give a new life. But people misinterpreted and they began to kill animals like anything with the evidence of..., "In the Vedas animal killing is sanctioned." So Lord Buddha appeared, just being compassionate to the poor animals. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam. Sadaya. He became very compassionate, that "All these poor animals are being killed unnecessarily." So he promulgamated a new type of religion-ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. "Don't commit violence. If I pinch your body, you feel pain. You should not pinch others." That is his religion. So, but, he... Because others, they will argue, "Oh, in the Vedas..." As I told you, that Vedas is the evidence, so "Here is... Animal killing is ordered. How you are stopping it?" Therefore he said, "I don't care for your Vedas." And because he did not care for the Vedas, therefore in India, later on, nobody accepted Buddha philosophy. Therefore Buddha philosophy has gone outside India-China, Burma, Japan—because here in India they are very strong in the standing of Vedas. Śaṅkarācārya established that "This Buddha philosophy is non-Vedic. It cannot be accepted." That was Śaṅkarācārya's propaganda. So by the propaganda of Śaṅkarācārya the Buddhism were driven away. There are so many things that one has to study. So Lord Buddha, we accept him as the incarnation of God. And his name is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. And his business is also mentioned: sammohitaṁ sura-dviṣām. His business is to cheat the atheist class of men. That cheating is not cheating. It is for the good. Just like the father sometimes cheats the small child. You see? So that does not mean father is cheater. "Well, he has got some business to do that. That's all." So when I say Lord Buddha cheated, we don't mean that Lord Buddha was a cheater like ordinary man. No. He had to accept some means to lead them to God worship. He is God. So all the Buddhists... I have seen in Japan. Their temple is as good as Hindu temple. They have got Lord Buddha's statue. They offer lamps, and they sit down. They read Buddha philosophy. It is exactly Hindu temple.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Guest (1): Where were you born?

Prabhupāda: I was born in Calcutta, 1896.

Guest (1): And what did you do?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was ordinary man. That's all.

Guest (1): Did you work?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I worked as a manager of a chemical concern in my family life. I have got my family also, my wife and children, my grandchildren, in Calcutta. But I have nothing to do with them.

Guest (1): And when did you start on...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. In 1960 practically, I left home.

Guest (1): You left Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Say, for last twenty-two years.

Guest (1): And where did you go when you left Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I retired in Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana you know?

Guest (1): Oh yes.

Prabhupāda: So there I began to write books, and then when three books were finished I started for America. And there also I wrote many books, dozens of books. You have seen our books. Our Kṛṣṇa Book is selling like anything in Europe and America. We are practically maintaining ourself by selling books. We have got our book sale all over the world, about twenty to 25,000 rupees daily and we have to spend seven to eight lakhs of rupees monthly. In Los Angeles alone we spend $20,000 per month. In New York we spend $10,000 per month.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Not complicated, it is perfect.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But they have no brain to understand.

Śyāmasundara: It becomes more complex.

Prabhupāda: Just like any ordinary man, how this tape recorder is working? There is a process. But because we have no brain, we think "How it has become? How it has become?"

Śyāmasundara: It's so complex to us.

Prabhupāda: So one who does not know, it is complex. One who is in knowledge, for him it is not complex. Therefore, Bhāgavata says anvayād vitarekabhyam(?). Anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is completely well versed. Kṛṣṇa just like says, "Yes, I spoke this philosophy millions of years. I remember; you have forgot." There we have to study, how Kṛṣṇa's brain is. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Yes, I spoke." When Arjuna defied, "How can I believe that You spoke millions of years ago this philosophy to sun-god?" "Yes, that's a fact. You also were there. But I remember, you don't remember." The child, just like father says, "My dear child, when you were two years old you fell down and there was a fracture in your brain." "Yes?" He cannot remember. The father can say, "Yes, it happened. You have forgotten. I remember." This is practical. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa can remember everything, vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). You may not remember. You have no such brain, you are teeny. But why should you defy Kṛṣṇa? Why should you deny the facility for Kṛṣṇa? That means you are thinking, "Kṛṣṇa, He is like me." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. Because you are rascal, you are thinking Kṛṣṇa is like another rascal like you. That is poor fund of knowledge. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). "Because they do not know, rascal, what I am, what I can do," avajānanti, "they think, 'Kṛṣṇa is like me.'

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Devotee (2): Is one called Māyāvāda philosophy?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): Māyāvādīs, are they thinking like that, Kṛṣṇa is...

Prabhupāda: Yes, "He is ordinary man. A little better than me, that's all." That Dr. Frog's philosophy. Atlantic was "That's all right, may be little one feet more than this well, that's all." He cannot imagine that millions of wells will be not compared. That he cannot begin. He says, "Yes, it may be bigger, say one foot bigger, two feet bigger. All right, ten feet bigger, make compromise." That's all. He will never think that beyond his estimation. Never think. He'll simply calculate, "All right, if not one, two feet, three feet. All right, ten feet." And the friend will say, "No, no, it is very, very great."

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Devotee (1): It's inconceivable.

Prabhupāda: Just like my Guru Mahārāja did not travel all over the world, so I have got double energy than him. So you must triple energy, four times energy than me. Then actually disciple. My Godbrothers are envious because they could not do. They could not do even half of Guru Mahārāja's work, and I am doing ten times. So therefore they are envious. So if an ordinary man like me can do ten times, you are Americans-twenty times, then you are successful.

Devotee (1): If we can do twenty times, it's only because you gave us the energy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. My blessings are there, you do it, try. Just like Guru Mahārāja gave blessings to everyone, but if they do not try, if they remain Kuñja Babu, then they'll remain Kuñja Babu, what can be done? If he's satisfied only one building in Māyāpur and two buildings in Vṛndāvana, that is his only ambition. The ambition is poor.

Śyāmasundara: Just like Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa and his wife, they hitchhiked all the way to Australia.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Martin: Can a true devotee come face-to-face with God through the teachings of Buddha, the teachings of Christ?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Teachings of Christ, teaching of Buddha, they are meant for a particular type of men. Generally it is meant for everyone, but specifically for a particular type of men. Just like Lord Buddha, he preached ahiṁsā. They were a particular type of men. Lord Jesus Christ also preached to a particular type of men. "Thou shall not kill." That means they were killing. Is it not? If I say, "Thou shall not steal," that means you are thief, you are stealing. So a kind of preaching among the thieves and a kind of teaching among the philosophers must be different. That is the difference. Lord Buddha is Kṛṣṇa, Lord Jesus Christ was Kṛṣṇa incarnation, but they were preaching to a different type of people. Therefore you'll find difference of Lord Jesus Christ teaching, Buddha's teaching, Kṛṣṇa's teaching. Kṛṣṇa's teaching also is there, which is also Buddha's teaching. But more than that, because the persons amongst whom He was teaching, they were far, far elevated than the thieves and the rogues. That is the difference. Just like I am pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, I am doing so many things which sometimes my Godbrothers out of envy criticize. But I know what is the circumstances how to do it. They do not know it. I know my business. So that is their fault. Their own buddhi business, then simply criticize "How he is acting." Find out some fault. Just like Lord Buddha was criticized by the Vedic brāhmaṇas, "Oh, you are stopping animal sacrifice? It is already in the Vedas. Because it is sacrifice, the animal is also sacrificed, so how you can stop animal sacrifice?" But Lord Buddha, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam. In the Vedas there is recommendation for animal sacrifice, but he began to deride. So his business was to deride the Vedic principles, that "I do not care for these Vedas." Therefore Buddha's religion was not accepted in India. He criticized. He criticized the Vedic principles. In the Vedic principles there is recommendation for animal sacrifice, and he criticized, "This is not good. Don't do this." Therefore it is criticism. Vedic injunction should be accepted as it is. You cannot criticize. Then there is no Vedic authority. So therefore he defied Vedic authorities. As such, he was not accepted, strictly followers of the Vedas. But he has got a different purpose. The ordinary man cannot understand. But one who is devotee, he knows that why he has done this. Therefore they offer their obeisances, keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. A devotee does not accept the philosophy of Buddha but accepts him as incarnation of Lord Kṛṣṇa and offers obeisances. This is our position. We offer obeisances to Lord Buddha as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. This is our study of knowledge.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee (4): He's been to Russia several times, and uh, it would be very nice...

Prabhupāda: This, this kind of question and interview is very interesting.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Good.

Prabhupāda: So ordinary men, why these people are..., why you are making this statement when you came, what is the benefit of such a thing?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Prabhupāda, jaya!

Prabhupāda: They do not know...

Devotee: So...

Prabhupāda: Now, the Russian scholar, he will, theologian, he can describe about God, what is the nature of God.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So maybe we can ask him to come at five o'clock...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that would be nice.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Devotee (4): And they will be here too, and it will be nice to hear discussion.

Prabhupāda: That's right. That discussion only. Students of philosophy, theology, what is their idea of God, what they are thinking, what is their defect, we can talk. Ordinary men you can (indistinct) try to avoid. If they want some question, you can ask.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. Jaya.

Devotee (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda? I am one of the teachers in the gurukula...

Prabhupāda: Ahh.

Devotee (5): ...and one of the boys, Ekendra, his mother, Kalindi, she wants to take him away from the school.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (5): She wants to take him away from the school. So she's leaving it up to you, to your decision, as to whether the boy goes with her or stays in the gurukula school. He's progressing very nicely at gurukula. The school is just starting. He's very intelligent boy.

Prabhupāda: So why he is taking? Why she is taking?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Kalindi wants..., likes to take Ekendra.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Devotee: (softly) This was not a paltry reason.

Prabhupāda: When he is incorrigible. First of all you have to try to correct him and... That is preaching. Our preaching means that people are useless, we have to train them in such a way they may take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our management. But if he is completely incorrigible, then he will be asked to leave. Otherwise it is not our business that as soon as we see something he is doing wrong..., that he must be trained, by our example, by our teaching, by our word, śānta yaṁ cinvanti kutiḥ (?). By word, by example, he should be corrected. If I cannot correct him by my words and example, that is also my (indistinct). Because they are, they are, you cannot expect that everyone has come here, sādhu. It is not that. We collect from ordinary men, but we have to make him sādhu. That is preaching. That is preaching. That you have to do tactfully. Not that because one is incorrigible... After trying all our ways, if he is still incorrigible, then you can ask. Not that for paltry reason he cannot be..., "Get out." That "get out," if you make, then everything has to be "get out." That is not the policy. Policy is first of all to correct him. That is preaching. As far as possible by example, by teaching, by everything.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then he can come.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So this applies only to those living entities who are born...

Prabhupāda: They are advanced in consciousness. They are advanced in consciousness. Suppose you are advanced in consciousness. So you are not going to get the dog's body or cat's body. You get another human body. Yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate. Yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ is not ordinary man. He is practicing yoga, but somehow or another could not fulfill. Therefore he gets again human body. He does not get the cat's body, dog's body. So he directly comes to the human body. There is no question of evolution. Same example. The apartments are already there. If you can pay more, "Come on, this apartment is ready for you." Not that you have to come from the lower platform, lower animal apartments. Daiva-netreṇa. The judgement will be done by the higher authorities. They do not know that.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: That's their new religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "God has only one son." Why? God one son? I asked the priest, that "God is limited or unlimited?" "Oh, unlimited." "Then why should you limit it by one son?" He could not answer. "Ordinary men have more than one son, and God has got only one son." Why? He could not answer. There is no philosophy. How people will...? This system, religion, was taught thousands of years, some shepherds, some fourth-class men. And now people are so much advanced in science, why they will accept it? Jesus Christ is preaching first thing, "Thou shalt not kill." That means he was preaching among the killers. So what kind of men they are? Tenth class of men. And how this tenth class man religion will be acceptable by the first class men? Now people are becoming first-class men. These things are go on, dogmas and nonsense philosophy. That will not stand. Automatically Christian religion is dead now. Nobody is going. There is no philosophy. There is no science. How it will be accepted. And they are violating, simply violating. Whatever it may be. Christ says "Thou shalt not kill." They are simply killing. How it will go on? How long you can cheat people? What is the explanation there? The first order is "Thou shalt not kill." Why they are killing? What is the answer?

Umāpati: Sense gratification.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Maybe. I do not know. But Nelson, Lord Nelson, was famous man, soldier.

Śyāmasundara: Now the pigeons are sitting on his head.

David Wynne: I have just come from Morocco. I've been with the King of Morocco, who is... It's very strange because he is an absolute ruler, and when an ordinary man is an absolute ruler, it's rather dangerous.

Prabhupāda: No. If the man is really Kṛṣṇa's representative, then it is all right.

David Wynne: Yeah.

Śyāmasundara: Is he a pious man?

David Wynne: Yes, he prays five times a day. He's a Moslem.

Prabhupāda: That king should be a representative of God. That is ideal king. But if he thinks that "This kingdom is my property, and let me enjoy for my sense enjoyment," then it is all gone. If he thinks himself as representative of God... Just like we think. Therefore we are after our disciples: "Do this, do that, do that, do that." We want to see that my disciples also become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Similarly, it is the king's duty to see that every citizen becomes God conscious. Then he is representative of God. That is the first duty. The division must be there, and the, it is the duty of the king to see that everyone is discharging according to his responsibility. That is king's duty. A brāhmaṇa is acting exactly like brāhmaṇa. The kṣatriya is acting exactly like kṣatriya. A vaiśya is... Like that. It is the duty of a king to see that nobody's unemployed, everyone is engaged in his own occupational duty. That is the... And they must feel security of life, property, anxiety. That is perfect king. Here, at the present moment, nobody is confident whether he'll live after an hour or... You see. Anyone can take your property and life, at any moment. There is no protection. There is no protection. And so far anxiety, there is no length and breadth. People are always full of anxieties. Unemployment. These things should not be there. No unemployment, no anxiety, no feelings of insecurity. And that is good government. Nowadays there are police force. But what is the use of this police force? You go on the street, somebody stabs you, what police can do? If somebody takes away your money from your personal pocket, what the police can do? They'll take some note.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: What if there's some desire to make something beautiful to give to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Śyāmasundara: If one wants to be ...

Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa will accept not from any ordinary man, unless you are devotee. If you think that "I shall do something for Kṛṣṇa without having any relationship with Kṛṣṇa," how Kṛṣṇa will accept it? Kṛṣṇa accepts only from the devotee. He does not accept anything from anyone else. He's not in want.

David Wynne: Yes, exactly. (laughs mildly)

Prabhupāda: He's not in want. He's complete in Himself. But when a devotee gives Him love and faith, He accepts: "All right. Thank you." That is another thing. Otherwise, He doesn't require anything from him. What beautiful thing you can give to Kṛṣṇa? He can create thousand times beautiful thing than you... What power you have got? Why should you desire like that? But if you are devotee, either it is beautiful or ugly, it doesn't matter. If you give to Kṛṣṇa in good faith, He'll accept it. It doesn't matter. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). He doesn't require anything. But bhaktyā, in devotion and love, if anyone offers even a little leaf, a little flower, tad aham aśnāmi, "I accept." He says. A little flower and little leaf, what benefit you'll do to Kṛṣṇa, unlimited? But He says, "Still, I accept because it is offered in faith and devotion." So that is a different thing.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Kristo

Mr. Wadell: "The anointed."

Prabhupāda: "Anointed," yes.

Mr. Wadell: I understand.

Prabhupāda: So in India, ordinary men, they call Kṛṣṇa "Kristo." My younger brother, his name was Kṛṣṇa. But we are calling him "Kristo." That is ordinary use. So this Kristo word came from India. What is your opinion?

Mr. Wadell: I'm sorry. Can you...? Are you asking me?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kristo. This is called apabhraṁśa. Apa means perverted, perverted spelling of Kṛṣṇa.

Mr. Wadell: I do not know the true answer to that question, I'm afraid.

Prabhupāda: And the meaning, anointed. What is the explanation of anointed?

Mr. Wadell: I am not sure whether this was a title applied to him by his disciples or whether it was a title which he himself explained to them, and it makes a difference whether he regarded himself as being anointed... If so he would have said this was by the..., his father.

Prabhupāda: But Kristo is person.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa, if you cannot meet Kṛṣṇa, you can meet with Kṛṣṇa's representative. Kṛṣṇa may not be physically present, but His representative is physically present. You can talk with him. That is the system of Bhagavad-gītā. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says that "I talked with the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "First of all I talked with the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāha. "Then he talked with his son, Manu. Then Manu talked with Ikṣvāku. In this way..." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam, there is a disciplic succession. So if you can be in touch with that disciplic succession, then Kṛṣṇa's representative is there. If you talk with the Kṛṣṇa's representative, then you talk with Kṛṣṇa. Just like in office, there are different departments, and the, there is a man, departmental-in-charge. So if you can talk with that departmental-in-charge, if you can please him, that means you are pleasing the proprietor or director. There is no doubt. Because he is representative. So physically you may not meet Kṛṣṇa, but in higher stage, you can meet. But accepting that you cannot..., but He, you have to be in contact with His representative. That is coming in disciplic succession. Then you talk with Kṛṣṇa. It is not difficult. The ācāryas are there. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyām. Kṛṣṇa says. "All the ācāryas," māṁ vijānīyām, "they are Myself." Nāvamanyeta karhicit, "Never disregard ācārya." Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāṁ nāvaman..., na martya-buddhyāsūyeta "Do not be envious: 'How he can be? He's ordinary man. How he can be representative?' " No. Anyone who is talking of Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa talked, he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supreme." So if anyone says, "Kṛṣṇa is supreme," then he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. It is not very difficult. Because the same talking. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If somebody says that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa," then he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. But if somebody says, "Kṛṣṇa is not God. I am God," then he's not representative. To talk with Kṛṣṇa is not difficult. You find out the representative, talk with him, and you are talking with Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So how such big men, minister, could accept such position of a mendicant and live...? Now, gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau... So they got a better thing. They dipped into the ocean of the gopīs' ecstasy. They were always thinking of the gopīs' activities with Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau muhur, vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. So unless one gets a better thing, he cannot give up the less important thing. So when, unless one gets that better thing—better humor, better mellow—they cannot give up these material engagements. Therefore, to get that better thing, it is advised that part of your hard labor you offer to Kṛṣṇa. This is called karma-yoga. You remain in your karma, but nirbandha, nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe, be touched with Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and spend at least fifty percent for Kṛṣṇa. Then, gradually, you come to the... Just like the Gosvāmīs came. So this is the policy. Otherwise, for Kṛṣṇa conscious men there is no need. Everything Kṛṣṇa will supply. Mādhavendra Purī installed a Deity. Now, for months, years together, only festival was going on. (pause) And another good example is that if somebody is in business and if he spends for Kṛṣṇa, that is a very good example for the karmīs. Because everyone is not going to stop their karmī mentality. So this will be an example, that "You are engaged in material. Now spend like this." That is another preaching. Loka-saṅgraha. This is called loka-saṅgraha, to collect ordinary men for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like Janaka-rāja, he was a king, but great saintly person.

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Simply by becoming Sanskrit scholar or Latin scholar, it is not sufficient. He must be God-realized, purified. Then it is possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ: (Brs. 1.2.234) "By your these blunt senses it is not possible to understand what is God, what is His form, what is His name, what is His quality, what is His kingdom, what is His paraphernalia." These things are to be understood. God means... Just like when we speak of "king." King does not mean alone. King means he has got his queen, he has got his kingdom, he has got his secretary, he has got his minister, he has got his palace, he has... so many things, king, royal. When we speak of Queen, we immediately remember the Buckingham Palace, his (her) bodyguards and so many, so many other things. Similarly, God means He has got His entourage also, everything. He's not alone. To understand God means to understand everything of God—His name, His fame, His līlā, His pastimes. So nāmādi. With all these blunt senses, how can we... We cannot understand even the Personality of Godhead, what to speak of other things? "God is a person:"—it is a very difficult subject matter for ordinary man to take it, very difficult subject. That is stated in the... Even the demigods they cannot understand. That is... Because he's thinking materially that "This cosmic manifestation, then creation, is so big, and it is created by a person. How it is possible?" But... Because they do not know what is that person. Simply by the word "person," he is afraid: "Oh, oh, oh, oh."

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: "He's like me. I can't do it. Therefore not a person."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: "No person except He's like me."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the Vedic scripture says, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His person is different. Sac-cid-ānanda. That is not exactly with our personality. This is material. This is temporary personality. Now I am man. Next time I may become dog, Next time become demigod. It is changing. It is not eternal, sat. So God is not like that. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). He does not come here being forced by the material energy. He comes by His spiritual energy. Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā. Find out this. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Therefore, as soon as He's accepted as ordinary man, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ (BG 9.11). He does not know what is the power behind that. Read it.

Pradyumna: Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san, prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya...

Prabhupāda: Prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The aim of human society should be God realization. That is the distinction between an animal and a human being.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā recommends that the whole society should be divided into four divisions: the brāhmaṇa, or the most intellectual persons, the kṣatriyas, the administrators, the vaiśyas, the mercantile agriculturists, and the śūdras, ordinary men, laborer or worker. Because this material world is conducted by three modes of nature, goodness, passion and ignorance, so according to the quality of the person, he should be listed in different categories. And it is the duty of the state to see that all these categories, divisions, they are working nicely.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Then, by God's arrangement, by nature's arrangement, all the necessities of the living entities, they will be supplied. They will be free from all anxieties, diseases. This was practically demonstrated during the reign of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So my only appeal is that those who are leading men... Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ... Find this verse.

yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas
tat tad evetaro janaḥ
sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute
lokas tad anuvartate
(BG 3.21)

Leading men, whatever they do, ordinary men, they'll be followed. Find out.

Pradyumna: "Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps, and whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore we are trying to make men like you interested. (Prabhupāda laughs)

Lord Brockway: Yes. Yes and no. I've lived in public life for sixty years. I've been in Parliament. I'm now in the House of Lords. But I don't regard myself as a great man in any sense at all.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Of course, there are degrees, but...

Lord Brockway: And I've never wanted to be in a gov...

Prabhupāda: No great man wants to become great. But because he's great, God helps him to become great.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: ...wherever it led.

Prabhupāda: That every human being can do.

Lord Brockway: But as I see so many men and women who are regarded as ordinary men and women, and their heroism in life, their sacrifice in life, their service in life, makes me small compared with them, even if they are not known, and even if they are not thought to be great. And so I don't think to be great at all.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No big man thinks like that. He thinks always small.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So that is natu... That is good. Big, big man. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was lear... "I am fool number one." And the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he says that "I am lower than the, a worm in the stool." So this is good attitude. Nobody... Sir Isaac Newton also used to say that "What knowledge I have got. I have simply collected..." They're... Every, every big man thinks like that. That is good attitude. But there is comparative study, that "Here is a big man, here is a common man." So our proposition is that it is a great science, great philosophy. So western countries, they are intelligent, especially the Britain, British people. They had very good opportunity. Still they have got opportunity. So my request is that let us study this philosophy and science and if possible introduce it in the human society. That is our proposal.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: In whichever way. The real direction is that he may come back to home, back to Godhead after giving up this body.

Yogeśvara: Is that buddhi, that intelligence manifested in some way, in his service, or in his thinking?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Because the process is devotion, bhakti. Bhakti means not idle. Activities. Bhakti is not idle gossip. It is something, activity. Therefore karmīs sometimes misunderstand that they are working like us. So where is the... what does it mean, bhakti? Just like Arjuna is fighting. But ordinary man will see that he's a soldier, he's fighting. What is this bhakti? But Kṛṣṇa certifies: "Yes, you are My devotee." By fighting, he's devotee. Because he's fighting for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is bhakti. Similarly, by the order of Kṛṣṇa, whatever you do, that is bhakti. Karmīs cannot see. Karmīs see... (break) ...tiki, laukikī, vaidikī. Laukikī means material activities. And vaidikī means according to Vedic instruction. Whatever you do, if it is done for Kṛṣṇa, then it is bhakti.

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So he should be insulted everywhere. Our men should go and do that, pie. (laughter) And when you have to (indistinct) He's God. Why can't you protect. He should have been killed. We have no such power. Otherwise, I would have obliged to kill him. Anyone says God, he should be killed. That is the example given by Kṛṣṇa. He should be killed. No other remedy. Only kill him. That's all. Then this false propaganda will stop. Just like the Christians said: Jesus Christ, God. And how God can be killed by crucification? We do not discuss this point, but actually this is the fact. He was empowered man, that we can understand. But we cannot accept him God. In our history, God is never killed. God kills others. That we have got evidence. And ordinary men, they took him, and crucified, and nobody, other, of the opposite party was killed. So that makes a little difference. So far son of God, that we accept. Everyone is son of God. We accept him śaktyāveśa avatāra, a living entity especially powered from God. That we can accept. So son of God we can accept. That is another thing. And where is the evidence in the śāstras that God was killed? Big, big giant, God fought them and killed them. Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa. Very, very great giant and demon. God was never killed by them. Is it not? Yes. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that: "What is this material power. My father was so materially strong. Even demigods and Indra, Candra, they were afraid. And He killed him within a moment. So what is the use of this material power?" And the God could not kill these crucifiers? As soon as they attempted to kill, there would have, He has, would have fought. He had to show some power. And they say that he agreed to take all our sin, and he crucified.

Room Conversation with French Nun -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Indian Man: Mystic... I mean. I think when Western historians and literators explain Indian religious literature, especially literature of bhakti-mārga, they term that those are the mystics and also they term the Sufi poets are mystics. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...say mystic means rahasya.

Yogeśvara: Rahasya.

Prabhupāda: Rahasya means it is little difficult to understand. (break) Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā: rahasyam, rahasyam etad uttamam. Rahasyam etad uttamam. This Bhagavad-gītā is the first-class mystic. Rahasyam etad uttamaṁ bhakto 'si me priyo 'si me (BG 4.3). "Because you are My devotee, you are My dear friend, you'll understand." So mysticism is not understandable by common man. It requires a special qualification. Just like to understand. It is also mysticism. Understand, to understand God. This is also mystic. It is not understandable by ordinary man. (end)

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (2): Than the snake. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...here is a very nice, educated man. He's very nice. But we say, "No. Because he has no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's as dangerous as if he is ordinary man." We don't give any credit. (break)

Acyutānanda: Which is more important, to go back to Godhead or spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Well, one who is preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's already back to Godhead. (break) ...īhā yasya harer dāsye karmaṇā manasā girā. Preacher means he has engaged his body, his mind, his speeches only to glorify the Lord. That is preacher. So anybody who's engaged that business, he's jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate. He's liberated even in this life. (break) ...even if he's liberated. So why he should seek for liberation? He's already liberated. He's already back to Godhead. He's already with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is talking with him. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi... One who is actually preacher, engaged in Kṛṣṇa's glorification, service, he's already in Vaikuṇṭha. That is stated in Bhāgavata. Etad īśanam... It's just like Kṛṣṇa. If He comes within this material world, does it mean that he's in the material world? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's pure devotee, he's not in the material world. In the spiritual world.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous. Then you will all fall down. If you make a joint mess, if you go and collect something and then eat and sleep, then everything will be... Therefore I do not want to keep separate. The temple worship means there will be regulative principles, that you will have to rise early in the morning, you have to attend class, kīrtana... These things, as soon as you give up all these things, zero. Then it will be like karmīs, as they are, hard labor, collecting money, and enjoying senses. That's all. So that is the pitfall everywhere. In the church, temple, as soon as they get some nice income, then in the name of "priest," "sādhu," "sannyāsī," they do the same thing. Therefore Gosvāmīs, they left everything. That is the danger of viṣaya, viṣaya touch. Viṣaya chāḍiyā se rase majiyā. As soon as we give up this śravaṇam, kīrtanam, then it becomes viṣaya. Viṣaya means materialism. There is no spiritualism. Kṣurasya dhārā, kṣurasya dhārā. Kṣura means sharpened razor. If you are careful, you cleanse very nicely. If you are not careful, immediately blood. Immediately. So the spiritual life is like that. As soon as you become little inattentive, immediately māyā captures, "Yes, come on." Then everything failure. We have got the tendency to enjoy sense. So senses are strong. As soon as there is opportunity, the senses will take advantage immediately. Then your whole business finished, Choṭa Haridāsa, and rejected by Mahāprabhu, "Get out." Even associate of Caitanya Mahāprabhu failed, personal associate. So there is chance of falling down even from the personal association of God. Jaya-Vijaya, they had to become demons. So these are the... If we do not follow strictly our regulative principles, routine work, then the whole scheme will be failure. Then, instead of Christianity, it will be "churchianity." You know this word, "churchianity?" You know? Yes. Everywhere this churchianity is going on. And the real aim is how to enjoy sense, under different cover. That is going on all over the world. Therefore it has come to that Rajneesh. Ramakrishna Mission, Rajneesh mission. Vivekananda has given preached, Yata mata tata patha, Rajneesh also, a mata. They have got also followers. Everyone can manufacture his own way of religion. So sense enjoyment, there is free field. This material world means sense enjoyment. But spiritual life means no sense enjoyment, tapasya. Tapo divyam. Sense enjoyment is there even in the hogs. Then where is the difference between man and hog? The man means the more he has denied sense enjoyment, he is advanced. Otherwise the spirit of sense enjoyment there is in the hogs. That is the difference. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). These ordinary men, they are working so hard, but what is their aim? The aim is sense enjoyment.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but who gives the seed? That is answered in Bhagavad-gītā. Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām. He gives the seeds, and He is life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the scientists are now trying to make the seed.

Prabhupāda: Then kick on their face with boot. With boot, rascal. You are trying. That is rascaldom. We protest against this. "We are trying." What is this nonsense, trying? Do it immediately. Then we shall accept. Trying, everyone is trying. Just like a child is trying to build a house with this sand. So is that very nice proposal, that here will be house? That is childish. Then you accept that you are child in the field of knowledge. Don't pose yourself that you know everything, or your knowledge is everything. That is our protest. "We are trying." Trying, everyone is trying. What is the difference between the scientists and ordinary man?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that they are coming very close.

Prabhupāda: Oh! That is also another foolishness. That is called will o' the wisp. The ass. Ass is trying to get the grass, and the washerman is showing only, and the ass is advancing, the grass is advancing. (laughter) You see. This is their thing.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prajāpati: They're giving prize to the number one speculator.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. Jugglery of words. That's all. Speculation means jugglery of words. Just like doctors prescribe. They give the medicine, and then water mixed. So they will never say "water" because ordinary people will understand. They'll write "aqua distillata." So ordinary man cannot understand whether it is water or medicine. But that is water. But they'll... So these scientists, they'll manufacture some word which you cannot understand... "Vyāghra mane śārdūla." One student asked the teacher, "What is the meaning of 'vyāghra' ?" He said, "Śārdūla." It is still difficult. You see ? This is going on.

Prajāpati: Most theologians, they write like that, also, Śrīla Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is their business. Because they want to cheat people, they'll manufacture some words which they cannot understand, and they'll be: "Oh, very nice. How nice word it is."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Therefore they're called genius. One can make...

Prabhupāda: A genius for the fools. They are genius for the fools. Not for the person.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

arūpa Dāmodara: ...gives the medicine. (break)

Prajāpati: Today the only time they use the word God is when they are swearing and they are calling on God to damn someone else. Why is such language there? Why are they doing like that?

Prabhupāda: No. Why ordinary men? Even those who are going to church, they are also praying God, "God, give us our daily bread." These rascals, they have made God as agent for their sense gratification. This is their philosophy. Even from the priest down to the rogues, they have made God as the agent of their sense gratification. That is materialism." God must supply whatever I want. That is God. Otherwise I don't care for God." This is their philosophy.

Prajāpati: But sometimes they might hit their thumb with a hammer or something and they will start swearing, calling on God's name, but in a very bad way.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. God's name. God's... In every respect, these materialists, they want to use God for their sense gratification. That is the prime fact. Our philosophy is that "God is not agent for your sense gratification, but you are agent for God's satisfaction." That is our philosophy, just the opposite. Even so-called religionists, they also take God as the agent of their sense gratification. They go to church to order God, "Supply our bread." Actually, He is doing. God is supplying bread. But they go for ordering, that "Give us our..." The rascal does not know, God is already supplying. Why should we go to church for ordering Him to supply bread? He is already supplying, even to the cats and dogs. They do not now what is the purpose of going to the church. That is going on. That is the disease, material disease. "I want to satisfy my senses, and anyone who will help me in my sense gratification, I shall worship him. If he does not, then I shall not." Everywhere. This Nixon became president because he promised that "I shall satisfy your senses."

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if... Since Kṛṣṇa is the power that gives the demigods the ability to render everything, then why is it recommended in the Nectar of Devotion that a Vaiṣṇava should worship Gaṇapati?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa worship, everyone. Just like we worship also ordinary man if it gives us facility to worship Kṛṣṇa. We go to somebody and worship him, flatter him, because he will give some money, and it will be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. The man is not worshipable, but he will help us to worship Kṛṣṇa. Thereby he will be helped and we will be also helped, and Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied that "My devotee has brought some money from this rascal. All right." That is... (laughter) So Gaṇapati is also devotee. So Gaṇapati, it is not required, but sometimes we do. Just like gopīs, they worshiped Goddess Durgā, Kātyāyanī. They did not require, but the social system is that. But they asked that Mother Kātyāyanī, give us the opportunity to have Kṛṣṇa as our husband." The aim is Kṛṣṇa. Generally, they go to worship Devī Durgā for asking material benefit. Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi yaśo dehi, the things which we want in material... But the gopīs, they do not go for any material things. For Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, we can go to any demigod. Why Gaṇapati? Everyone. But our prayer should be, "Please give us Kṛṣṇa." Then it is correct.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Therefore I say.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Dr. Patel: Same thing, I say. The same reasoning.

Prabhupāda: But they are not physicians. They are ordinary men.

Dr. Patel: So it is bad for them.

Prabhupāda: What is... What is... What is food for one is poison for another.

Dr. Patel: Yes. That is what I said. The worst poisons have got the best qualification in them for saving lives. That is my point and that is what I was speaking of.

Prabhupāda: So when it is ruining life, how you can say it the best?

Dr. Patel: But it doesn't save the live of someone?

Prabhupāda: That I know also. But that is in different use. You cannot take. Just like even a snake poison, venomous, that is also used for saving lives. But that does not mean the snake is good.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Bhagavān: So there's so much to do in Kṛṣṇa's service, everyone can be engaged in some...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that everyone should know... Suppose one is engaged in cooking prasādam. You should see that nice prasādam is served to the worker, quickly, so they can take prasādam, be healthy and go on preaching. So he is helping preaching by cooking. Just like you are working and the brain is also working, "Go this side, go that side, the car is coming." Brain says, the... "Leg, come this side." Everyone is working. The leg is working, the brain is working, the hand is working, the tongue is working. But the business of the tongue and business of the leg is different. The aim being, the central point being Kṛṣṇa, to help, to serve Him, then everything is work, absolute. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they cannot understand it. They think that "Kṛṣṇa is working like ordinary man. How He can become God? It is māyā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is also māyā." Therefore we called them Māyāvādī.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Budhaḥ. Budhaḥ. Eh? Yes?

Viṣṇujana: My program now is I have ten brahmacārīs in buses, and everything and we're distributing books. But if the people are in chaos, how they will be able to accept the knowledge in the books?

Prabhupāda: No, not all of them are in chaos. There are some of them. Some of them. Not that all of them. Hare Kṛṣṇa (break) ...in separate department.

Passer-by: Rādhe, Rādhe!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Just see. Due to the past training, even an ordinary man, he's chanting, "Rādhe, Rādhe."

Viṣṇujana: When we had our boat, the boatmen every morning were...

Prabhupāda: This is India.

Viṣṇujana: ...worshiping...

Prabhupāda: Because, due to past culture, even the lowest class of men, he's also great philosopher than these rascals in western countries.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Karma means which produces result. And akarma means which does not produce result. So that they do not know.

Chandobhai: And the vikarma.

Prabhupāda: Just like these activities, devotional service, it does not produce any result. And the ordinary man... Suppose they are also selling books. An ordinary man also selling books. It appears to be the same. But they are not creating any result. But ordinary bookseller, he's creating his result, pāpa-puṇya. That is karma and akarma. And vikarma. Vikarma means against the...

Chandobhai: Vikṛta karma.

Prabhupāda: Yes, vikṛta.

Chandobhai: Vikṛta, against śāstra.

Dr. Patel: Although the actions which are prohibitory...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhāgavata: Then that's superior to karma-yoga, to follow those nine principles purely.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Makhanlal: Rāgānugā-bhakti is also superior to karma-yoga then?

Prabhupāda: Bhakti is perfect stage. That is not for ordinary man.

Yaśomatīnandana: What is the difference between karma-yoga and... or bhakti because they also (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Now go on doing your duty, you'll understand (indistinct). Don't try to understand in one day.

Bhāgavata: It will be revealed to us as we act.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the more you become in service attitude, things will be revealed to you. (Sanskrit) prakaśante. Becomes, it becomes manifest. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau sam eva sphuraty adhaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). (break) ...answers.

Dr. Patel: What I will say now... I will make one man sit between the two, Vaiṣṇavas.

Prabhupāda: You know what the paramahaṁsas do?

Guests: It is mixed up.

Dr. Patel: It is what I give to that man. Mix up, then it is far better.

Prabhupāda: So they are all paramahaṁsas.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, these mūḍhas, they will think, "Huh? It is controlled by Kṛṣṇa? He is ordinary man like this." A mūḍha. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto. He does not know how much powerful is Kṛṣṇa, the mūḍha.

Dr. Patel: But you see, this is not like this, that those fools... (break)

Prabhupāda: That is also another mūḍha, but supposing if Kṛṣṇa says that "I am controlling the whole universe." The mūḍha will not believe it. "Huh? How is that? How...? Such a big gigantic prakṛti, and He is a person. He can control?" The mūḍha cannot understand. He cannot understand that how much powerful is Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. They do not know what is the all-omniscient nature of Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: The spiritual power of Kṛṣṇa. No. Paraṁ bhāva? Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12).

Prabhupāda: Therefore, as soon as these rascals, they get little power, yogic perfection, they think, "I have become God. I have become God."

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But if one cannot execute in such a way, he can take little fruits. That's all.

Dr. Patel: Shall we? Śṛnu me paramaṁ vacaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Bhūya. He has already spoken so many important things; still, He wants to give information of further important part.

Dr. Patel: Yat te 'haṁ priyamāṇāya vakṣyāmi hita-kāmyayā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Because these things are to be spoken to My dear devotees, priyamāṇāya, for the special benefit of the devotees, not for the ordinary man." Bhūya eva mahā-bāho (BG 10.1). Mahā-bāho, this word is used, "mighty-armed," who is very strong in devotional service, mahā-bāho. Bhūya eva mahā-bāho sṛnu me paramaṁ vacaḥ (BG 10.1)." Mahā-bāho, because you are My great devotee, therefore I am speaking further, very important subject matter."

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Satsvarūpa: Yes, you said the answer is that it's different persons, not just one Arjuna, not just one Yaśodā.

Prabhupāda: Just like I have got hundred branches. Each branch I have got a set of my sitting room, of my books and everything. And wherever I go I see the same place. If it is possible for an ordinary man to have a hundred sets of the same thing, why not for Kṛṣṇa?

Girirāja: So in each branch you have a different cook, different president, different treasurer...

Prabhupāda: But the set is there, what I want. The set is there.

Girirāja: Yes. Now in the case of Jaya and Vijaya, who fell down and took the role of demons, after three births as demons, they were supposed to go back to the spiritual world. So after the three births in this universe, were the same pastimes going on in other universes.?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? Whenever Kṛṣṇa desires that He is to fight with somebody, another must prepare himself for fighting, becomes His enemy. Because in the Vaikuṇṭha world there is no chance of fighting, therefore He sends His devotees to become His enemy and there He fights.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Indian Man (1): ...recently what we read from the papers. There is so many... So far, nobody tells us that there is a moon-god over there. Although they have gone to particular one place only or two, three places only, not the whole moon, but still, nobody comes from. They say nobody is there and...

Prabhupāda: But these bodies are imperfect. They are not perfect. The moon may not be exposed to them, these rascals. Because a king is not exposed to the ordinary man... Unless one is fit to see him, king is not exposed. That does not mean there is no king. If some rascal says, "There is no president, there is no king," that is his rascaldom, not that there is no king, no president. He cannot see. He has not that qualification. Is that correct?

Indian Man (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One who has no qualification, he says, because he could not see somebody, he sees, "There is no such existence." Is that a good conclusion?

Indian Man (1): Good psychology.

Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then what is this? He's... Give him dress. (break) Give him lesson how to make tilaka. He has come to your shelter. You teach him. (break) Just like a diseased person, if he is a little careless, he is not very strict in following the..., it will take some time. It is exactly like that. He, because of his material opulences, he thinks that "Oh, where is the disease? This is all right. I am happy." That is the defect. We have to reduce. That is called tapasya. Not that "Because my tongue is asking me to eat something, therefore I must eat." Not that. That is the difference between ordinary man and gosvāmī. Gosvāmī means one who has conquered over the dictation of the senses. My sense dictates to do something, but when I am able to dictate the sense, "No, you cannot do it," that is called gosvāmī. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Dr. Patel: ...maybe an African or Indian?

Prabhupāda: No, Indian.

Dr. Patel: African, after all. Americans must be first. (static interference) ...politically conscious Africans.

Prabhupāda: We have got about ten African devotees now in Nairobi branch. (break) ...to material sense enjoyment. Such persons cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...avoid the dictation of the senses. But when a man is able to dictate the senses, then he is gosvāmī.

Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: "One who is lord of go."

Prabhupāda: Yes, senses. In that stage he cannot give up. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. When one sees that "This is better quality than the other," then he takes. Unless... Because superficially... Suppose because for becoming Vaiṣṇava, he has to undergo so many austerities. So ordinary man cannot find out that this is better life than that. So when he understands, "This service is not good; to serve Kṛṣṇa is good," then he can give up the service of māyā. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. Just like an ordinary servant, he is serving in your house, but if he gets some more salary in other's house, he gives it up. That is required. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante.

Girirāja: (reading) "This māyā or illusory struggle for existence is immediately stopped. Lord Brahmā, who has full control over the Goddess of learning and who is considered to be the best authority in Vedic knowledge, was thus perplexed, being unable to understand the extraordinary power manifested in the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. (break) ...said that unless one comes to understand the inconceivable power of God, there is no meaning of God.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Viḍ-varāha: "dirty eating hog."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vit. Vit means stool. Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra. Uṣṭra means camel, and khara means ass. So these gṛhamedhīs they have been described as the śva, viḍ-varāha, uṣṭra, khara. Bhāgavata is very strong (laughs) in criticizing. Therefore in the beginning it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra: (SB 1.1.2) "All types of cheating religion is rejected." Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra. Kaitava means cheating. Śrīdhara Swāmī, he has... Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ: "This Bhāgavata is meant for paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ, those who are above this material existence, paramahaṁsas." Bhāgavata is not meant for ordinary men.

Dr. Patel: Who can make a distinction between milk and water.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, no, means he accepts only the milk, not the water. Similarly, this whole world is mixture of spirit and matter, so he rejects matter; he takes only spirit. That is paramahaṁsa. Go on.

Girirāja: "Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura points out that according to Bhagavad-gītā, the Brahmā day and the Brahmā night are periods of solar years expanding 4,300,000 multiplied by one thousand..." (break)

Prabhupāda: Four, I think. This one?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, 747. Jumbo.

Room Conversation -- May 20, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: When you sow it, it will bring more money. There will be no problem.

Gurudāsa: In the old system, land and jewelry was riches.

Prabhupāda: Jewelry for rich man, land for ordinary man. Land and food grains, that is money. So at our present status, how we can utilize this land? As grazing ground?

Gurudāsa: Presently I think gośala is more practical.

Prabhupāda: There is another gośala, they are not utilizing, Panchar(?) Gośala. Why don't you try for that? They can give it free, that we shall... "Give us it, we shall utilize it for Kṛṣṇa."

Gurudāsa: We can try.

Prabhupāda: Find out who is Panchar(?). "If we do not use for gośala, then you can take it back. But we shall utilize it for gośala. So why don't you give us the land?" Attached to the temple, we maintain a gośala.

Gurudāsa: That's nice.

Prabhupāda: Still we shall require to grow some food for the cows and nice water supply. Then you simply keep the cows there. They will eat and drink and remain here peacefully. Only one room for watching(?).

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. That pure energy is spiritual energy, and from that spiritual energy the material energy comes out. That I have already said: From the soul the matter grows. So that is spiritual energy. The basic energy is spiritual. And because the spiritual energy is the cause and the material energy is the effect, therefore in one sense we can say there is no difference between material energy and spiritual energy. Because spiritual energy is the cause, and material energy effect. Effect may be presented in different forms. Just like cotton is the cause of thread. And the thread is transformed into cloth. But you cannot take cotton for cloth. The cotton is there in the cloth in a different, transformed, transform, but you cannot accept, when you require a cloth, you cannot take cotton. This is a crude example. So the cause of physical elements is spiritual energy, and the spiritual energy is... Both spiritual... Spiritual energy is coming from God. Just like... (aside:) Close. (sound of windows closing) Just like the sunshine is coming from the sun, and in the sunshine there are so many physical transformations. Is it not? In the sunshine... Just like we, ordinary men, we can understand. When there is absence of sunshine... In your western countries or in other..., the leaves of the tree falls down. And again, in the springtime, as soon as there is sufficient sunshine, immediately thousands of trees grows leaves. So there is action of sunshine. So sunshine is coming from the sun. And the sunshine is working in different ways, changing the color of the flowers, of the leaves, and... Or, so far I know, all the planets are, they're rotating on the sunshine heat. Eh? So therefore the sunshine is the original cause of all material, physical things. But wherefrom the sunshine comes? That comes from the spiritual energy. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). In the Brahma-saṁhitā. So that original cause is the spiritual energy. Therefore, because everything is coming from the spiritual energy, you can take everything as spiritual. The same example: like cotton is the original cause.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Nitāi:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest amongst mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me." It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā that simply by surrendering oneself unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality Kṛṣṇa, one can surmount the stringent laws of material nature. At this point a question rises. How is it that educated philosophers, scientists, businessmen, administrators and all the leaders of ordinary men do not surrender unto the lotus... (break) ...Manu, Vyāsa, Devala, Asita, Janaka, Prahlāda, Bali, and later on, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Śrī Caitanya and many others who are faithful philosophers, politicians, educators, and scientists etc. surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Person, the all-powerful authority. Those who are not actually philosophers, scientists, educators, administrators, etc., but who pose themselves as such for material gain, do not accept the plan or path of the Supreme Lord. They have no idea of God. They simply manufacture their own worldly plans and consequently complicate the problems of material..."

Prabhupāda: Everyone comes, they say, "Why people are suffering?" They are concerned with the people suffering. Actually not. That is a plea only, as if he has taken the task of minimizing the suffering of humanity. He poses himself as very philanthropist. Actually, he cannot do anything.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yoga, this yoga system means controlling the mind. But 5,000 years ago a person like Arjuna, who had his friend Kṛṣṇa, he is saying that it is not possible for him. And at the present moment people are so degraded—not in the position of Arjuna—how they can get success? He is not ordinary man. Such a great warrior belonged to the royal family, and so qualified that he could talk with Kṛṣṇa personally, he says that it is not possible. So, do you think that you are..., become more than Arjuna that you can get success?

Pṛthu Putra: Translating into French.

Prabhupāda: Read this second verse, cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: And from this level the heaven opens to those who didn't understand what the heaven means. They thought it was behind the clouds. You see, there is a natural way to look at God, and this natural way to look at God is lost as soon as people go through the rational mind. And then there is no other way out but to have a personal initiated experience. We talk about initiation. When people are capable to go through a certain death and to discover another level, and only... And so, the great wisdom which you are talking about, I am sure that it also touches people on two levels. There is the ordinary man and he might believe, but there is a deeper level where things start to change yourself, to transform yourself in deeper experiences.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... That is the beginning of instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. The beginning of knowledge...

German Lady: Excuse me. Would you please explain for some people who don't speak English here in German because we don't know all of your words.

Professor Durckheim: Yes, but I didn't want to interrupt the master.

Prabhupāda: No. I have no objection if somebody translates into German.

Haṁsadūta: Vedavyāsa can translate. (German)

Professor Durckheim: Do you permit me to repeat it in German? For those who are present here?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. (German) (break) So Kṛṣṇa begins the first understanding,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

Yes. What is the translation?

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: And there is a Greek word for Kṛṣṇa.

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There is a word in Greek. He is called Kristo. Kṛṣṇa is sometimes pronounced by ordinary man as Kristo and that Kristo word means love. That is the other Greek word and from that Kristo, the word Christ has come.

Guest: (indistinct) Yes.

Prabhupāda: So there is some connection with Kṛṣṇa (indistinct). What is that?

Guest: There are so many parallels between Kṛṣṇa and Christ.

Prabhupāda: So many.

Guest: Born in a cave. Yes.

Devotee: Mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ, manaḥ sasthanindriyani prakṛti-sthani karsati (BG 15.7). "The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."

Prabhupāda: That is the position of the conditioned souls that they are struggling for existence. Instead of finding out how to come to the original consciousness and that is struggle. Kṛṣṇa means love. So everyone is struggling hard how to reach the platform of love. So many institutions-philanthropic, international, United Nations. The only attempt, how to love each other. But they'll struggle, they'll not attain the platform, simply struggle. There have been so many attempts, even the favorite example, the United Nations. How much they are doing and people have got the idea of philanthropism, countryism, communism, communityism, this ism, that ism. The only thing is they are trying to come to the platform of love.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So we offer Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants: "Give me this foodstuff," so we offer the foodstuff to Kṛṣṇa, and we take it. Therefore, if for killing this patraṁ puṣpam there is sin, that is Kṛṣṇa's sin, not my sin. (German) But Kṛṣṇa, God, apāpa-viddham, sinful reaction cannot take place to Him. Apāpa-viddham. Pāpa means sinful. Just like the sun is powerful. It can absorb urine, but you cannot drink urine. (German) So the injunction is tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). One who is very powerful... Just like a king. He orders, "Kill this man. Murder." He commits murder regularly, chopped up. But he is not under the law, being hanged, because he is very powerful. But an ordinary man, if he commits murder, he will be hanged. When there is fight the commander in chief says, "You kill them," and the soldier kills and he gets gold medal. But the same soldier, when he kills a single person at home, he is hanged. Therefore this injunction, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26), "This vegetables give Me. I shall eat, and you take the prasādam." So we are not sinful.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everyone.

yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde
nava-nava-rasa-dhāmany (udyataṁ) rantum āsīt
tad-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne
bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca

Yamunacarya, he was a great king. So his.... As king, his life was sex. But when he became a devotee, he admits, yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde: "Since I have learned how to enjoy association with the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa and I get more and more eternal transcendental bliss, since that time," bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne, "even if I think of sex life with woman," bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ, mukha-vikāraḥ, "I taste that (indistinct)," suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ, (makes spitting sound). This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When the mind will be fixed up, (spitting sound), these things, then you enter Kṛṣṇa's (indistinct). Otherwise, it is mixed up. You have to purify. When this attitude, we (spitting noise)—"What is this?"—then Kṛṣṇa consciousness is beginning. This is the proof, Yamunacarya. Tadavadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne. So not actually doing, simply by thinking, "Oh, I was doing this. (spitting noise). What I was?" this is liberation. Even if I think mentally, that means I will have to take birth again. Again and again. This is the criteria. They think mentally. They read so many novels, fiction. The same thing—the sex life. And these ordinary men, they read Bhāgavata, hear Bhāgavata, rasa-līlā. They think, "Here is the same thing. Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs do like this, the same thing. So why not hear this?" But actually, śāstra says if one hears rasa-līlā, then that lusty desires will be finished.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Bali Mardana: It is riskier to stay outside.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Otherwise why you are opening so many centers and making arrangement that "We shall provide you with shelter, with food. These are the facilities. You live here, do whatever is your capacity. Don't sleep, but work." This is our teaching. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt, this is also, and Rūpa Gosvāmī says, sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge sadbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati: "If you live with the association of sādhu, devotee, then it will be quickly fruitful." And if you live with these ordinary men, then whatever you have got will be finished very soon. There is another verse. It is said there that it is preferred to live within the cage surrounded by fire than to live with the nondevotees. It is preferred.

Bali Mardana: Or with those who are too much attached to women also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nondevotee means too much attached to woman. That is the plain fact.

Yaśodānandana: Also one time in Bombay you told this verse from Caitanya-caritāmṛta, sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), sādhu-saṅga...

Prabhupāda: Sarva-śāstre kaya, lava-mātra sādhu-saṅge sarva-siddhi haya (CC Madhya 22.54). For me, personally, I had the opportunity to talk with my spiritual master not more than ten times in my whole life, not more. It may be less than that. But I tried to follow his instruction, that's all, although I was a gṛhastha.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Hṛdayānanda: In the modern world the engineers are designing everything. So how can an engineer use his talent for Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Design a temple, nice temple. There are wonderful temples, very expert engineering. And they were ordinary men but the engineer was so nice that nobody can manufacture such temple in the whole world, still.

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, that was really wonderful, what you explained, that previously the people would build a very wonderful temple, and the ordinary people would just live in a very common, simple house.

Prabhupāda: Not for themselves. They knew the art how to manufacture nice building, but they did not care for personal use. It was used for Kṛṣṇa. Sometimes only the kings, in order to keep their position, they used to have gorgeous building. Otherwise ordinary men, cottage. (break) To live in cottage means to save time.

Mexican devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in one of the magazines I read that there was a saint who he didn't even construct a rug?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Romaharṣaṇa. (break) Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yajñād bhavanti parjanyaḥ, yajñād bhavanti parjanyaḥ. If there is timely cloud and rainfall, this ground can be moistened very easily. But they won't perform yajña; therefore there is scarcity of cloud and rain. Now they have to manufacture this sprinkler. And it is not perfect.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (2): So the tamasi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no value. I have seen one doctor of chemistry—he could not get any service—in Allahabad. His name was Raghunātha Mitri(?), Dr. Raghunātha Mitri. So he was living at the cost of his father-in-law and making some soap and going to the shop for selling, doctor. That means he could not get any service. Now his independence was to manufacture some soap as ordinary man is doing. But he was chemist; he could not do anything. He could manufacture some soap. So in spite of high education, because he could not get a good job, he had no value. Just like the dogs. The dogs, if they do not get a master, nice, then street dog. He is lean and thin and no shelter, no...

Guest (1): That is what is happening...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: And cultivating, yes.

Ambassador: Yes. In Greek my name is also "cultivate." In Greek the origin of my name is "cultivate." Gheragoss.(?)

Prabhupāda: And this Greek work is kristo. There is a word in Greek. It is called kristo. And Kṛṣṇa is sometimes pronounced by ordinary man as Krsta. And that kristo word means "love," if I am not wrong, that Greek word. And from that kristo the word Christ has come.

Ambassador: Karitas(?), yes.

Prabhupāda: So there is some connection of Kṛṣṇa with these things. What is that?

Ambassador: There are so many parallels between Kṛṣṇa and Christ.

Prabhupāda: So many.

Ambassador: "Born in the cave." Yes.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: The machine... Just like I push certain button, it acts in a certain way. I push another button it acts in another way. Just like computer machine. It is a very complicated machine, but it does not act automatically. One man who knows, he puts the button and it acts.

Young man: If the laws of nature are the laws of God, then how is it that sometimes they're even crueler than the actions..., they are more violent than the actions which ordinary men do, than that of a tyrant or a murderer?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Rules, God rules, are perfect, and it is being perfectly done. Sometimes we misunderstand.

Young man: Then how do we take the meaning of earthquakes and natural disasters which could destroy the lives of pure people as well as impure people?

Prabhupāda: No, every life is pure. The body is pure and impure. So anyway, after destruction, the life is not destroyed. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The destruction of body does not mean that the soul is destroyed. No. He gets another body. The body is... one body is destroyed, and he transmigrates to another body. And so far your question about the earthquake, so suppose if there is plane crash, there are many good men, bad men, so everyone is crashed. But the good man gets a good body again; the bad man gets a bad body again.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Guest (2) (Indian man): Just one sentence, Prabhupāda. Another thing is they know they are taking body again and again. They are taking the body again and again after birth. Why they are committing again and again sins and which mode of nature...?

Prabhupāda: Because they do not know how to stop this process. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. You can stop this. But these... Again rascals. They'll not take the method. Kṛṣṇa said that "If you simply try to understand Me," janma, "why I appear and why I come here and work," karma..., "they are divine." The divine nature of Kṛṣṇa's appearance, disappearance and activities, if one can understand, then immediately he becomes free from this process. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). But the rascals will not do that. They'll misunderstand Kṛṣṇa. They'll misdescribe Kṛṣṇa. They'll think, "Kṛṣṇa is ordinary man." Gandhi will say that "I don't think there was any person living as Kṛṣṇa." And he is mahātmā. These things are going on. Mahātmā is proving himself as the greatest rascal. This is your mahātmā, and what to speak of the durātmā.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, you say that Kṛṣṇa is pūrṇam, the complete whole. So in the material world, if something is very great, even though we may not like it, like people may not like the United States, but still, they have to admit that it is a very great country in comparison to theirs. So in the material world, things which are great, at least we have to admit that to some extent they are great. But Kṛṣṇa is everything. So how is it that people are saying that He's so tiny that He may even be an ordinary man? How can they be so illusioned to think like that? Kṛṣṇa is everything. How can they ignore Him?

Prabhupāda: Illusioned because you do not know what Kṛṣṇa says. That is your fault. Kṛṣṇa says, "You do this," but you do not do that. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Who is doing that? Just take a census, who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Hardly you will find one in million. So who is carrying out the order of Kṛṣṇa? Nobody is doing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You are. But Śrīla Prabhupāda, how is it that Kṛṣṇa is everything, completely...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And still, people completely can ignore Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is... Because Kṛṣṇa is everything, his independence is also Kṛṣṇa. The man's independence is also Kṛṣṇa. So he is misusing his independence. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). He is using his independence not to do this. Therefore he is suffering. (Greeting someone:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...says, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: (BG 15.15) "From Me there is remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness." So why Kṛṣṇa is interested to induce one to forget? Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they want to.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: It is explained there. He does not reveal Himself. Why He shall reveal Himself to an unqualified person? That is Kṛṣṇa's prerogative. If He likes He will reveal. If He does not like He will not reveal. You cannot by force see Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, first of all be qualified, then try to see Kṛṣṇa. He is not exposed. Even a big man, if you want to see him, he may refuse: "No, I will not see." What can you do? If you think that "This man is third-class man, why shall I see him?" Even in ordinary human society that is going on. So why people are eager to see Kṛṣṇa without being qualified? Why these rascals say, "Can you show me God?" First of all you become fit to see God. They'll not become fit. They'll do all nonsense, and want to see God. Kṛṣṇa is addressed, pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. He is the supreme pure, and we are impure, and you want to see the supreme pure. You see? What audacity! I am not fire. I want to enter into the fire. You see? What will be the result? You'll be burned into ashes. First of all be fire. Increase your temperature to the same temperature, then it will automatically. He is paraṁ brahma, so you realize yourself as brahma. You are realizing yourself as American, Indian, this, that, and you want to see paraṁ brahma? The foolish people will do. And one has to become purified, sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170). One has to be free from all designations. Everyone, we give more prominence to the designations: "I am this, I am this." So how can you see God like that? First of all you become designationless. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, that "I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya"—everything He denied. So purify yourself and you'll see God. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to become purified. That makes you all right. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva (Bs. 5.38). Sadaiva means always. This is the process. Why these rascals say, "Can you show me God?" What qualification have you got? He doesn't think like that, that "I have no qualification." He thinks that "I am very advanced." That is foolish. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ. Similarly a third-class man goes to a high-court judge. Foolish rascals has come. "Who is that?" "I don't know." There was an incident. One big philosopher and one big dramatic player. He was also very famous. So he went to see that philosopher and sent his card. He said, "Oh, why shall I see this dancing dog? He may be famous as a dancing dog, but I have no business with him. If some philosopher comes, then it will be a pleasure to talk with him. What does he know? He may be expert in dancing. It is not philosophy." So he refused to see him. "Why shall I see this dancing dog?" He used these words. "He's a dancing dog" (inaudible). So similarly, why this ordinary man claims to see God? A dancing dog? A devotee says, marma-hatāṁ karotu vā. A devotee is always anxious to see God, but he said that "I am not qualified. So even I become broken-hearted not seeing God, still Kṛṣṇa is my Lord. I may see, or may not see. That is His mercy. But in all circumstances, He is my worshipful Lord." That is devotee. "Oh, I could not see God? I have done so much?" Kṛṣṇa is not so obliged that because by concoction you think you have done something, and therefore He is obliged to come before you and dance. Kṛṣṇa is not so little.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Still, even after you went to America and brought back so many European and American disciples, still the Indians are so slow to come and join.

Prabhupāda: Because they have been... The disease is very chronic. They are not opulent. That diagnosis already given. They have become poverty-stricken. So daridra-doṣa guṇa naśe. Although they are born in India, they have got many qualification, due to this poverty-stricken position, they... Their first business is how to... Because they have got family attachment, so they cannot sacrifice. They will work very, very hard. You have seen how they are going to office, how..., because they have got the responsibility of family. That is Indians another feature. They take family responsibility. In your country there is no such thing. There is no family. There is no family responsibility. In India still that old tradition is going on. Therefore they cannot sacrifice the family responsibility, although they are willing. And the whole thing is it is due to poverty-stricken position. They have got family responsibilities. They think, "If I go, then whole family will starve. How can I go?" That is the exact position. And to come to that stage, that "Let my family starve, I don't mind," that is very higher stage. That is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), "Oh, no responsibility, simply I have got respons..." That is not ordinary stage. You cannot expect these things from ordinary man.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Carol: To want to and to do it is different.

Prabhupāda: No, unless you are fully aware of my abilities, qualities, why should you surrender? (indistinct) So, before surrendering, one has to study the person where he is going to surrender. Then he surrenders. That is real surrender. And blindly surrender, that will not stay. So, our first business is to surrender to God; therefore we must know what is God. Then you must surrender. And, the emotion is good. That means you are advanced. If you understand that God is giving us everything. So, that emotion is very good. If one from the very beginning becomes emotional, "Oh, God is so kind. God is so great, that He is giving us everything, our necessities. I must serve Him." This emotion is very good. But for ordinary man, this emotion does not come. He wants to study what is God. Then when he fully understands, "Oh, God is so great." Then that emotion is very nice. That is genuine emotion. Otherwise emotion is sentiment. That will not stay. That will not endure. It is temporary.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That means willingly they want to become fool.

Paramahaṁsa: There are so many great symbolic literatures.

Prabhupāda: You are seeing this green. If you interpret, "It is not green; it is white," what is this? Can you interpret like that? It is green, and "No, in my interpretation it is white. What you are seeing, it is not actual seeing." You can go on saying like that. But I am an ordinary man. Why shall I take it white? It is green. That's all.

Paramahaṁsa: But that is the way of great writing, to write in symbolism. That is...

Amogha: Great literary works are done in that way.

Paramahaṁsa: They call it "writing between the lines." There's some hidden meaning. Therefore it is very deep.

Amogha: And so if Kṛṣṇa was such a great philosopher, then naturally He would have also used those literary talents to write in between the lines.

Prabhupāda: All right, you become very good bluffer. That's all. We don't accept you. All the ācāryas, they did not accept, those who are authorities. Vyāsadeva, he did not accept these foolish theories. Nārada never accepted. Recent ācāryas, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Caitanya. Why shall I accept these third-class professors? Kick on their face. We have got authority to support this.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Bali-mardana: Previously the only big building was the church.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Big church or king's royal palace, like that. Ordinary men, they used to live in cottage. That is especially in India. They did not... What is the use? If you are not going to live there... It is a common sense. But they have no idea. They are thinking, "We shall live forever in this house." And Kṛṣṇa says that "I will come as death and take away all your possession." That they cannot understand. They will think that "No, my possession is all. I will die. I will go to hell. Still, it is my possession." This is. He will go to hell; still, his possession. (laughs) This is intelligence.

Gurukṛpa: They are so dependent that if there is no electricity, where will they get water on the twentieth floor?

Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from that... There are so many inconveniences. There is no doubt about it. But he is thinking, "Now I have done this skyscraper building, it is my possession, and even though I go to hell, it will remain my possession." He does not believe next life, but he is thinking, "My generation." But if there is no next life, what is the question of generation? Who is coming to become your generation if there is no next life? Hm? "My son, my grandson will..." But who is coming to be your... Because there is no next life, everything is finished with this body, then who is coming to be your son and who is coming to be your grandson? The common sense. But they are so dull, they cannot understand.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So there is stated, "If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you go back to home." Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). That is stated. If you simply understand how Kṛṣṇa takes birth, how He goes away, why does He come, what is His mission, these things, if you can understand, then you are a fit candidate to go back to home. So that is explained everything in the Bhagavad-gītā. You try to understand. Then you are guaranteed. Where is the difficulty? And if you think, "Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man like us," then finished. Then do not understand Kṛṣṇa. If you simply accept this word faithfully, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), "Everything is Kṛṣṇa," then your knowledge is perfect.

Devotee (3): Even if we don't understand Kṛṣṇa completely... Even if we don't understand Kṛṣṇa completely, if we just...

Prabhupāda: This is complete understanding, that "Everything is Kṛṣṇa." That's all. That is a fact. Everything is the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Just like in this material world everyone knows everything is the sunshine. Due to the sunshine, everything is coming. That's a fact.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The Vedic civilization, therefore, teaches the student, brahmacārī, how to remain without sex life. Those who are unable to continue that, they are allowed, "All right, be married life." And that is also for twenty-five years. A student remains brahmacārī up to twenty-five years, and if we wants to take this sex license-household life means sex life—so he can get the license for twenty-five years more. So at the age of fifty years, fiftieth year, he gives up voluntarily. He keeps his wife with him just to assist him to advance in spiritual life, and they go from one holy place to another. And then when they are practiced, then the woman is sent to his elderly sons to take care and the man takes sannyāsa. This is Vedic civilization, varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas: the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra... And the sannyāsa is especially meant for the brāhmaṇas, not the kṣatriyas or the vaiśyas because they are not very much advanced. But the brāhmaṇa is advanced from the very beginning. Therefore sannyāsa is for the brāhmaṇa. The system that without being a brāhmaṇa nobody can take sannyāsa. So I am criticized by others in India that I am giving sannyāsa to them. Of course, according to the principle, they are not fit for sannyāsa, but because Caitanya Mahāprabhu also took sannyāsa at the age of twenty-four years... Śaṅkarācārya took sannyāsa at the age of eight years. He lived only for thirty-two years, Caitanya Mahāprabhu lived for forty-eight years. So for ordinary man, sannyāsa is difficult. But for preaching work, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's footprints we are trying to follow.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: Oh, it is unsuccessful. Yes. I meet many people in the course of my work that are very unhappy because of the frustrations that they experience.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this place is for unhappiness. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find this place, the material world, has been described as duḥkhālayam. Duḥkhālayam means the place of miseries. So how you... If the place is made for miseries, how you can make this place as full of pleasure, if God made like that? Just like if you are put into the prison house and if you want to live very comfortably, is it possible? Prison house is meant for giving you trouble so that you may be rectified, no more stealing, not to become criminal. It is meant for punishment. Similarly, this whole material world is meant for punishing these criminals who wanted to enjoy independently God's property. They are all criminals. We are worshiping the best nationalist, who is thinking in terms that "This place is mine," philanthropist or political leader. But actually, he is a thief because he is claiming God's property as his own. He is a criminal. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram: "I am the proprietor of all the planets, all the universes." Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: (BG 5.29) "I am the friend of all living entities." But these people, they are claiming that... The leader is claiming, "I am the friend," and he is claiming, "I am the proprietor." They are, therefore, criminal. He is not friend. Just like your president. He is not friend of the countrymen. So this is the position of the most exalted man, and what to speak of the ordinary man? Nobody is friend. All enemies. Therefore I am envious of you, you are envious of me. There is no question of becoming friend because everyone is selfish. He wants his personal benefit, so how he can become other's friend? This is false. By false pretension, he is occupying big, big post and taking money for his sense gratification. That's all.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva:. Toast.

Prabhupāda: Not toast even. (laughter) Dry loaf? Without any taste, without any value. That also in his table. He cannot go to the... He's busy working. So this is ass. He does not think that "I am working so hard, I am earning so much money. What benefit I am taking? A glass of tea and a loaf? For this I am working so hard? I can get this without any work. Anyone will offer me this glass of tea and loaf. Why I am working so hard?" That sense he hasn't got. Therefore he is ass. Everyone you will see. They are working so hard, they have no time. But what they are enjoying? They are not enjoying even more than ordinary man. But he has no sense, "So for this much benefit I am working so hard?" Therefore he is an ass. A philosopher at least thinks that "Why shall I work so hard for this, only a glass of...?" So therefore he is a little better than these karmīs. Karmī, jñānī. And they are restless because they are falsely thinking that they will get some benefit. They have some aspiration, ambition for getting some benefit. The karmīs they are trying that "I will have so much bank balance, 300,000,000's." He is satisfied to see the bank balance. Although bank balance will not go with him, but he is happy by seeing that "I have got so much bank balance." So they want bank balance only, not enjoyable life. They do not enjoy life. They want to see that "I have so much bank balance, such a high building. I possess this much." They are satisfied. That is not satisfaction. He will never be satisfied. He will want more, more, more.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. John Mize: I'm still puzzled about the relationship of the soul to God. If the soul is eternal, as God is, and yet some souls have the tendency to fall and others don't have that tendency...

Prabhupāda: No, no, eternal does not mean not fall. Suppose you are now professor. So you can fall down from your position. But that does not mean you are not eternal. If you are fall down from your position, you do not lose your eternity. You simply fall down. You can become a professor; you can become an ordinary man. But you are eternal in all circumstance. Eternal... Fall down does not mean that he loses his eternal. That is stated that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Find out. Ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The living entity is never born or it never dies. This is eternity. You change your body, but you eternal.

Dr. John Mize: It's so puzzling, though, why I would spend eternity...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore he requires that sattva-guṇa qualification.

Dr. John Mize: The what qualification?

Prabhupāda: That sattva-guṇa, goodness.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Jayatīrtha: So do you understand? The idea is that this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is based on authority of the Vedas. And the Vedic literatures are coming directly from Kṛṣṇa. So we only accept it as truth what Kṛṣṇa says and we don't accept anybody's mental concoctions or speculations as being truth. And this is the problem with so many other religious movements today, that they depend on the interpretation or the...

Prabhupāda: Concoction.

Jayatīrtha: ...philosophy of some ordinary man. So this is the primary differential.

Prabhupāda: We don't say anything which is not spoken by God in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore it is appealing everywhere. Although it is in Sanskrit language, still, it is appealing. Just like if you go on the street and the signboard is, "Keep to the right," this is law. I cannot say, "What is the wrong if I keep to the left?" Then I am criminal. You cannot dictate. The government has said, "Keep to the right." You have to do that, that is law. If you violate, then you are criminal. Pay fine. But ordinarily, one may think, "What is the wrong there, instead of keeping right, if I keep to the left?" He may think like that, but he doesn't know that is criminal.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Brahmānanda: We have already discussed that pure devotional service to the Lord is automatically followed by perfect knowledge and detachment from material existence. But there are others who consider that all kinds of different occupational engagements, including those of religion, are meant for material gain. The general tendency of any ordinary man in any part of the world is to gain some material profit in exchange for religious or any other occupational service. Even in the Vedic literatures, for all sorts of religious performances an allurement of material gain is offered, and most people are attracted by such allurements or blessings of religiosity. Why are such so-called men of religion allured by material gain? Because material gain can enable one to fulfill desires, which in turn satisfy sense gratification. This cycle of occupational engagements includes so-called religiosity followed by material gain and material gain followed by fulfillment of desires. Sense gratification is the general way for all sorts of fully occupied men. But in the statement of Sūta Gosvāmī, as per the verdict of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, this is nullified by the present śloka.

One should not engage himself in any sort of occupational service for material gain only. Nor should material gain be utilized for sense gratification. How material gain should be utilized is described as follows.

Prabhupāda: People are after material gain. They have no spiritual information even, what is spirit, what is the need of spiritual realization, they do not know. Therefore they have been described as mūḍhas: fools and rascals. Those who are after material way of...

Prof. Hopkins: Do you... Do you think then that that, that message is the most important message that you have to convey?

Prabhupāda: This is the most important message. Because you are not this material body. Suppose you have got this shirt. If you simply try to maintain this shirt, is that very good intelligence, without taking care of your person? Similarly, if we are spirit soul and the body is just like dress, so the whole material world is, everyone is engaged to take care of the body. Nobody knows what is spirit soul, what is this need. Nobody knows. All these educational institutions, they are blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). And the whole system is also blind. If a blind man leads another blind man what is the benefit? No benefit. Therefore in your country, every country, it is a blind education. No spiritual enlightenment.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, the pure devotee's spirit soul is not trapped by the gross and subtle bodies?

Prabhupāda: Yes, when he is liberated by devotional service. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26).

Devotee (4): Prabhupāda, when we try to explain to people that our philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is authoritative and is coming from undisturbed men, learned men, that our spiritual master is not an ordinary man, what does it mean that he is not an ordinary man?

Prabhupāda: He is not moved by the rascal scientist. (laughter) All rascals are moved by the so-called scientists.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda... (laughter)

Prabhupāda: (laughing) The scientist is angry.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The soul is trapped as well as untrapped in the material body...

Prabhupāda: Because he wanted to be trapped.

Press Conference at Airport -- July 28, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: Well, we are not very much concerned with political situation. But our proposition is—either political, social, economical or philosophical, anything—without Kṛṣṇa, it is all zero. So far Mrs. Gandhi is concerned, she is inclined to some spiritual understanding. So actually if she becomes very advanced spiritually, then this emergency situation will improve. Otherwise... and it is the public opinion against democracy. So democracy is not very much beneficial anywhere and everywhere. In your country also, you voted Mr. Nixon, democracy, but you were not satisfied with him. That means democracy, ordinary men they select somebody and again they try to bring him down. Why? When he was selected, it means it was a mistake. So according to Vedic civilization, there was no such thing as democracy. It was monarchy, but the monarchy means the king was very highly spiritually advanced. The king was called rājarṣi, means king, at the same time, saintly person. We have got another example in our country-Gandhi. When he was political leader, he was practically dictator, but because he was a man of very high moral character, people took him, accepted him as the dictator. So dictatorship is good, provided the dictator is highly qualified spiritually. That is the Vedic verdict. The battle of Kurukṣetra was there because Lord Kṛṣṇa wanted rājarṣi, Yudhiṣṭhira, should be on the head. So the king is supposed to be the representative of God. So he must be a godly person. Then it will be successful. That's all right. (end)

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Satsvarūpa: "For them I am covered by My eternal creative potency, yogamāyā, and so the deluded world knows Me not, who am unborn and infallible."

Prabhupāda: If you have no qualification to see Him, even Kṛṣṇa comes before you, you cannot see. You will see Him—"Oh, He's an ordinary man like me," because you are not qualified to see Him. But when you become qualified, you will see Him always. Kuntidevi said, "Kṛṣṇa, You are within and without; still, they cannot see You." If Kṛṣṇa is within and without, there are two things. Still, the example is given, naṭo nāṭya-dharo yathā. Just like a friend or a family member playing on the stage, and somebody says that "Your brother is playing." "Oh, where is my brother? Where is my brother?" "He is just playing this part, taken this part." "Oh." So he requires the help. Otherwise he cannot see. Even he sees his brother or father playing on the stage, he cannot see. The example is very nice. Naṭo nāṭya-dharo yathā. He sees his brother at home, but he cannot see on the stage. Everything requires qualification. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for qualifying you to see God twenty-four hours. This is sum and substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you learn this art, then you will see God twenty-four hours, without any stop. And that is accepted by Kṛṣṇa, that yoginām api... "He is first class who has learned to see God always in his..." Yogi means that. Yogi does not mean to play some magic. Magician also can play some magic. A devotee is not interested to show any magic, but he is interested to see the magician, supreme, who is playing so much magic. The yogis, they are thinking that "If I can play some magic, then so many people will applaud, and that is my success." But a devotee doesn't want anything. A devotee wants to see who is playing the magic, supreme magician, yogeśvara. Yatra yogeśvaro hariḥ. Find out, yatra yogeśvara hariḥ, Kṛṣṇa, Eighteenth Chapter. The supreme master of all yogic, mystic yoga, Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So miserable condition... That is our conclusion, that either you remain this side or that side, it is miserable. By mental concoction you think that "This is better than that." Therefore Kṛṣṇa says frankly, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is only shelter. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15). (break) ...take Kṛṣṇa's words as it is. Everything is there. He said, "This material world is duḥkhālayam; it is the place of suffering." Industrialist, businessman, anyone, even ordinary man, actually everyone is suffering, but everyone is thinking, "I am happy." (break)

Brahmānanda: ...because there is some sex pleasure, that makes it tolerable.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the, what is called, topmost ignorance, topmost ignorance, that "This is happiness." So the materialistic person means only for that happiness they are suffering so much, this way. They agree, "Yes." Just like Dr., er, Bon Mahārāja was speaking that they are talking freely?

Brahmānanda: Oh, about homosexuality.

Prabhupāda: "Oh, yes. What is the wrong? It is pleasure." They take it as pleasure.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Return?

Dhṛṣṭaketu: Of course, they may say that "Kṛṣṇa is just an ordinary man like me and therefore He is asking..."

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are rascal. Kṛṣṇa is ordinary man, and He is lifting the hill.

Brahmānanda: Well, that's just a story in a book.

Prabhupāda: He may be story for you. You may not believe that you have got a father but we are not mad. You can say, "To have a father is a story," but mother says, "No, you have your father." She is authority. You can say, "Oh, it is story."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They want historical evidence for everything.

Brahmānanda: Yes, why doesn't Kṛṣṇa come and do it now?

Prabhupāda: He is not your father's servant, that he will come by your order. He's the supreme master. Kṛṣṇa is doing the same thing still, but you have no eyes to see. Kṛṣṇa is doing. How this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading all over the world?

Brahmānanda: Why doesn't God force me to surrender?

Prabhupāda: No. That Kṛṣṇa is not a nonsense like you. Because Kṛṣṇa has given you little freedom He does not want to touch it. That is Kṛṣṇa. What He gives, He never takes it back. It is not a nonsensical award that "I give you sometimes; then I take it away." Kṛṣṇa does not do such. He has given you little freedom, so you can use it. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad..., "Whatever you like, you do." That freedom is taken by nature. You are human being. If you do not engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then nature will withdraw this privilege and you'll become a dog. Kṛṣṇa does not take, but His agent, māyā, will take it away. Just like the police is the agent of the king or the government. The government does not care what you are doing. But if you do something criminal the police will punish you.

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means divine. Kṛṣṇa means divine. Kṛṣṇa means divine.

Indian man (4): So that is the same.

Prabhupāda: But foolish people think Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). Only mūḍhas take Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is always His complete spirit.

Indian man (4): We like His smiling face too much, Lord Kṛṣṇa's smiling face, always smiling. All forms of God we have seen, but His...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is always smiling because Kṛṣṇa is ānandamayo abhyāsāt. That is the feature of God. He is ānandamaya.

Indian man (4): But (unclear) even in Mahābhārata at the time of chariot, while sitting on the chariot of Arjuna, He was always smiling. There was a lot of battle going on, but He never lost His...

Prabhupāda: Temper.

Indian man (4): Temper.

Indian man (5): Yes. How do you think about somebody in last few days defeated the existence of Mahābhārata itself? They say it is a...

Prabhupāda: Who is that man?

Indian man (4): They may, they may.

Prabhupāda: He has defeated?

Indian man (5): No, if they say that "There was nothing like Mahābhārata," you tell.

Indian man (3): They may say, but...

Prabhupāda: The foolish man can say anything. (Hindi) How he becomes more than all the ācāryas, this rascal?

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ātma-māyā.

Dr. Patel: Controlling.

Prabhupāda: Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). They do not come under the control of this mahāmāyā. They have got their own spiritual potency. Āhlādinī-śakti. Ātmanaṁ sṛjāmy aham. Ātmanam: Myself, I advent." How it can be like ordinary man? We are... karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). We get body. But He says....

Dr. Patel: And it is by His own free will.

Prabhupāda: Yes, as He likes. He likes to appear as fish, that's all. Not that... Ordinary fish, it is forced to take the body of a fish.

Dr. Patel: We are controlled by māyā and its actions...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: ...and take this body for the fulfillment of māyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: What can an ordinary man do? I mean the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement involves shaving the head and wearing the saffron robe. What can the man who is caught up in family life do?

Prabhupāda: This saffron robe is not very essential, or cut the hair, but it creates some good situation, mental. You see? Just like a military man, when he is dressed properly he gets some energy to feel like a military man. But it does not mean that unless you are dressed, you cannot fight. It does not mean. So God consciousness can be revived in any condition, without any check. But these conditions are helpful, helpful. Therefore it is prescribed that "You live like this," "You dress like this," "You eat like this," "You do like this." These are convenient. These are convenient. So they are not essential. At the same time, if we take to these processes, then it will be helpful.

Faill: Yes. One can be a student of Kṛṣṇa consciousness while going about a normal daily life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Faill: Do you think transcendental meditation is beginning to help...

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is meditation. They are... Simply it is a farce. That is another cheating process by the so-called swamis and yogis. They do not know what is meditation. Do you know what is meditation? You are asking me the question, but do you know what is meditation?

Faill: Just a stilling of the mind, trying to sit in the center without swimming either way.

Prabhupāda: So what is that center?

Faill: Oh, I don't know.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Just as one goes to a school and gradually he understands what is one, what is two, what is three, what is "two plus two equal to four," how to place. It is a question of learning, education.

Reporter: Yes, but this doesn't effect the ordinary man in the street, Your Grace.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Reporter: This doesn't effect the masses.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The mass of people, he says it doesn't effect them.

Prabhupāda: Mass of people will follow. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha (BG 3.21). Just like everywhere, in politics there is in one leader and people follow him, so we want first-class leader. Then mass will follow. If the leaders are rascals and fools, then what will be result? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If the leader is blind, how he can help other blind men? He must be open eyes. Then he can lead thousands of blind men—"Come here." And if he is himself blind, then how he can help? That is wanted. One blind man... One open-eyes man is sufficient to lead many thousands of blind men. But if the leaders are also blind, then it is useless. He must be in perfect knowledge. That is wanted. We do not expect that mass of people will understand this philosophy. It is not possible. But at least the leaders, they must know how to lead people—the father, the teachers, the government, like that. Then people will follow.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: Their idea is that God is so great that you cannot see Him.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You cannot see because you are worthless. But those who are worthful, those who have attained liberation, they can see. Just like it is stated in the Bhāgavata, apasyat puruṣam purnam. Apasyat: "He saw, Vyāsadeva." Huh... Bhakti-yogena manasi samyak pranihite amale apasyat (SB 1.7.4). When your heart will be completely cleared of all this material conception, then you can see. So long you are materially contaminated, it is not possible. That's a fact. But bhakti-yogena samyak pranihite amale. When the heart is cleansed, that is the process. Therefore we are insisting that "Let them hear Hare Kṛṣṇa." Ceto-darpana-marjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The heart will be cleansed. Then they will understand. All of a sudden, if you speak all this philosophy "Kṛṣṇa said," they will accept that "Why Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man. Why shall I..."

Brahmānanda: They will argue.

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: Vivekananda fell down still further because he said...

Prabhupāda: No, no, further... Not... At least we can see this, that after preaching Vedānta, he came in India. He became captivated with hospital, as if there was no hospital. There are many thousands of hospitals, and ordinary men, they are inclined to open hospitals. Why...? You have realized brahma-satya. Why you come to hospital? And nobody questions. Your progress would have been completed when you, in... mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54), if you had been promoted to the bhakti stage. That you haven't got. You come to the hospital stage. That means falling down. (break)

Yaśomatīnandana: That is also propounded by him only, that "You can do anything as long as you know that you are not this body, you are soul." I heard that one day he went into the Muslim mosque and said, "Today I am a Muslim, so I can eat beef today. Tomorrow I am a Christian, so I can eat this, because I am not this body."

Prabhupāda: That was done by Rāmakrishna also. And when he wanted permission from the proprietor of the temple, that "Now I shall practice the Muslim way of religion. So I shall eat beef," so the proprietor said, "Kindly go out and practice it outside." (laughter) (break) ...exemplified like this: on the glass it appears like a sun, but it is not sun. A reflection, pratibiṁbha. (break) A man can understand that dahi is nothing but milk. (Hindi) Why you wait for the milk?

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then how you can? These rascals, these Māyāvādīs, they play rāsa-līlā. (break) ...ācarati śreṣṭhas means that śreṣṭha is ordinary person, but not Bhagavān. Bhagavān can act any way. And still, Bhagavān has never instructed you that "You imitate Me in raising the Govardhana Hill." Has He said like that, that "You also raise the Govardhana Hill like Me"? (break) ...orders man-manā bhava mad-bhakto ṁad-yājī mām. That is for you. Always think of Him. Always become His devotee. Worship Him. Offer your obeisances. That's all. That is for you. Yasodamayi was asking Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, can you bring the slipper of Your father?" He could not. He was a small child. Still, with great difficulty He could raise that. But the person who can raise the Govardhana Hill, He was feeling difficulty to raise the slipper? Why? If at that time He becomes like Govardhana, Giridhārī, then the līlā between father and son will be damaged. He plays just like a child. Although He can raise even in that age, to raise the hill. One should understand Kṛṣṇa. Everyone compares Him with ordinary man: "Kṛṣṇa has done this? Then I shall do." Kṛṣṇa has done so many other things. Why don't you do it? This rascal... Anyone who imitates Kṛṣṇa on the plea that "Kṛṣṇa has played this; therefore we shall do." He can do anything. He can eat meat and He can eat the whole universe. That was shown to His mother: "Mother, you are angry because I have eaten dirt. Now see within My mouth the whole universe is in. So what is the question of dirt and sea and ocean? I can eat everything." (break) ...sam na doṣāya. Just like this sun. It dry up this urine. It is not infected. But you lick up this urine and let us see how powerful you are. Tejasaṁ na doṣāya. Who is powerful, he can do anything and everything, whatever he likes. You cannot do that. (break) ...example. This urine, within an hour it will be dried up. How it is dried up? Due to the sun. But the sun is not polluted. But you try to dry up and see the result.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1975, Vrndavana:

Indian man: Raja Gopalācārya, he has written in Mahābhārata that Kṛṣṇa was killed by a hunter.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the hunter is...

Indian man: "Kṛṣṇa Passes Away," the heading of his chapter.

Harikeśa: You said about a couple of years ago that "What ordinary man would be killed if he was shot in the arrow by a heel," I mean, "shot in the heel by an arrow?" No ordinary man dies that way.

Prabhupāda: So who reads Raja Gopalācārya's Mahābhārata? (laughter) They are rotting at Bharatiya Vidyabhavan.

Akṣayānanda: They're rotting in the bookshelves and the insects are eating.

Indian man: But in Somanath... I went last year there when I was in Gujarat. The people, they don't believe, the people of Somanath, that he was killed by... like that. So these philosophers, simply for their name, they put some kind of theories so that people can, "Oh!" They can understand all this nonsense. (break)

Prabhupāda: These pastimes of Kṛṣṇa is to make the fools more fool. One who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man, Kṛṣṇa is playing this part to show them, "Yes, see. I am dying, this. You see."

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Bhāgavata: Rajneesh, same philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Hm. But they do not know; na te vidu svartha-gati hi viṣṇum; these rascals they do not know what is the actual aim of life. They are, in the groups of ordinary men, they are doing some business opened this transcendental TM shop, that's all. Cheating. Cheating. All of them are are going on, cheating. Nobody knows the real interest is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Nobody knows. Ask any so-called sādhu, yogi, swami—they do not know. They read Bhagavad-gītā but they do not understand. (sic:) Yad jñātv na nivartante tad dhāma parama mama, so what do they understand, these... tyaktv deha punar janma naiti mam eti so'rjuna. They do not believe all these things, therefore they say.. Swami Chinmayananda says that whatever is necessary we shall accept; other ślokas we shall reject. This is his, this rascal's philosophy. As if Kṛṣṇa says something superfluous. They say like that. And the other day some gentleman came, "It is ficticious writing... You were present?

Haṁsadūta: Hm.

Page Title:Ordinary man (Conversations 1967 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:11 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=104, Let=0
No. of Quotes:104