Expressions researched:
"same level"
Interviewer: Is yoga part of meditation?
Prabhupāda: Yoga is a very broad term. Yoga means to connect with the Absolute Truth. That is yoga. Yoga means connecting link. So there are different varieties of yoga. Just like one staircase, it is the connecting link to the top floor. So that is, everywhere you can say staircase, but one who has crossed a few steps and one who has crossed a few floors, they are not on the same level.
Prabhupāda: But they should have common sense that you are trying to float one sputnik, so many scientific brains are working. And millions of wonderful sputniks which are called planets, they are floating in the air, there is no brain behind it. What is this? Is that very good reasoning?
Journalist: I don't know. I must ponder that.
Prabhupāda: You should know it. How it can be. There must be a very big brain behind this. They are working.
Journalist: Now do you say that the moon is, so to speak...? What should I say? Headquarters, where these demigods live?
Prabhupāda: No, there are many planets on the same level. There are many planets. Moon is one of them.
Journalist: Have any of these demigod creatures visited the earth or...
Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to because at that time people were worth to see them. You see?
Journalist: When you say formerly, you mean thousands of years ago or...
Prabhupāda: No. At least five thousand years ago.
Prabhupāda: Caturthaḥ(?) platform. And that is possible by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says,
So two sides we are trying, to define the natural division of human society. The intelligent class, the administrator class, the productive class, and the worker class. There is natural division. You cannot say that everywhere simply there are intelligent class of men. No. Because we are infected with the three kinds of the material modes. You cannot expect all men are on the same level. That is not possible. Someone is in the modes of goodness, someone is in the modes of passion, someone is in the modes of ignorance, and someone is in the modes of mixture. That is the natural division—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaisya, śūdra. Those who are purely in goodness, they are brāhmaṇa. Next to that, passion, kṣatriya. And next to that, vaiśya, mixture. And next to that, śūdra. And next to that, caṇḍāla.
Prabhupāda: ...because you have got material eyes. Because your, you have got your material eyes, you cannot see the spiritual form. Therefore He kindly appears to be in a material body so that you can see. This is the point. Because He has kindly made Himself just fit for your seeing, that does not mean He is..., that He has material body. Just like President Nixon, if he kindly comes to your house, it does not mean that his position and your position is the same. It is his kindness, out of love, he may come to your house, but that does not mean he is on the same level with you. Similarly, because we cannot see with our present eyes what is Kṛṣṇa, therefore Kṛṣṇa appears before us as painting, as made of stone, as made of wood. And Kṛṣṇa is not different from these paintings and wood because everything is Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): Are spirit souls alike, or are they different?
Prabhupāda: Alike. (laughter) The dress is different, the spirit soul is the same. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,
Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. A learned, really learned man, he sees everyone on the same level, because he sees to the spirit and he is (indistinct) that a learned brāhmaṇa, a dog, an elephant, a low-born, everyone is on the same category of spirit soul. That is the vision of a learned scholar. He does not make any discrimination that "Here is a dog" or "Here is a very learned scholar." His vision is the dog is also entangled by this body and a learned scholar is also entangled by this body, but both the dog and the learned scholar, both of them are spirit soul. That is actual vision. The same example, that I am talking with you, not with your dress. I am not very much concerned with your white dress or black dress. I am concerned with you as person. Similarly, we are concerned with the soul, not with the outward body. That is our position.
Prabhupāda: Ah? No, I know better than you. Because you are a fool, I'm a fool, but you are a fool and still you are posing you know. That is the difference.
Karandhara: They may say, "We don't know, but we're trying to find out."
Prabhupāda: That also... Then why I shall give you better position?
Karandhara: We are also trying to find out.
Prabhupāda: Then why should I give you better position? You're on the same level with me. Why you are posing as "I am scientist"? You are a fool, you admit I am fool, you admit you are a fool. But why you are posing as scientist?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they will say that they have a..., they are trying to find out experimental things.
Prabhupāda: You have not found out, that's a fact. As I have not found, therefore you are equally fool like me. Don't pose yourself better than me.
Prabhupāda: If God has cause, then he is not God. That is the difference between God and everything. Everything has got cause, but God has not cause. Therefore he is God. That, the rascal, he does not know. He equalizes God and everything on the same level. Then what is the meaning of God? If He hasn't got the extraordinary qualification, then how he is God? He is everything. He does not know. Why there is distinction between God and everything? Because God is not caused by everything, but everything is caused by God. That is the difference. (break) ...is equal to God, then everything is God. That is going on, Māyāvāda philosophy.
Prabhupāda: And you are all, mostly, you are just like my sons.
Dr. Patel: I am also your son. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: (laughing) No, you are younger brother. Sons are on the same level. So I have got the right to say sometimes "Rascal, fool." Don't be angry.
Dr. Patel: And we accept it also. We know that within yourself you take us to be something different.
Prabhupāda: Solution not only of your country or our country, it is the solution for the whole human society. I told that as there are different divisions in the same body, the head, the arms, the belly, and the leg... Although the body is one, but there are different parts for different function. Then the body is going nicely. The head is the most important part of the body. So if the head is not in order, then, in spite of presentation of other parts of the body, hands, leg, the body is useless. Just like a madman. Madman, this brain is not in order. Therefore despite the presentation of the hands, legs, and other things, it is useless. Similarly, the human society should be divided into four classes according to quality. Not everyone is on the same level. So for, even for material purposes there must be four divisions: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class, means... The definition of the first-class, find out. This is the definition of the first-class man.
Prabhupāda: Sakhi Babu.
Jayapatākā: Yes, Sakhi Babu, he is there.
Bhavānanda: Opposite.
Prabhupāda: So that means he is on the same level. (break) ...Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura on the gate is the proof how fool he is. He has not shown respect to Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura; he has disgraced.
Jayapatākā: Now the government is saying that they have to knock down those temples because of the encroaching on the roadside.
Prabhupāda: Now where Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will go now? What was... What was your guru mahārāja's plan for where he...? I don't understand. I mean, did your guru mahārāja want a...
Prabhupāda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's statue was there.
Prabhupāda: Spirit is always active.
Richard: It's always active at the same level?
Prabhupāda: Not same level, because you are understanding the spirit through the body. So body is changing. Just like the soul, when he's in the boy's body, it is talking so many nonsense things. But you don't take it seriously. But when you are grown up, if you talk such nonsense things, then you'll be taken as a nonsense, because the body has changed.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That verse, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya (BG 9.32).
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa says that even women, he can go back to home, back to Godhead. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. There is no such thing. Anyone who is devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he or she will go back to home, back to Godhead. There is no such discrimination. Ordinarily it is supposed that woman is less intelligent than the man. That's a fact. But that is in bodily understanding. But in the spiritual platform, either woman or man or cat or dog or brāhmaṇa or... Everyone is spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who is learned, he sees everyone on the same level of spiritual platform.
Prabhupāda: That is the standard of education.
Paṇḍita means educated. So how one is educated? How it is tested? When a person takes all women except his wife as mother, then he is educated. When one thinks others' property as garbage in the street, then he is educated. And when one thinks that all living entities are of the same level, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu, then he is educated. Not that for my convenience I say, "The animal has no soul, so send them to the slaughterhouse." He is not educated.
Rāmeśvara: If it is... Something that is judged by, say, the US government as criminal, would be still do it if it was for Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No, we do not do anything which is harmful to the society. We do not do anything, not only to the human society. To the animal society, to the tree society, to the aquatic society, we do not do anything. We do not support the slaughterhouse, killing the animals. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to see every living entity on the same level. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are not cruel to anyone. Either he's a man or animal or tree or bird.
Devotee: If I want to go to Bombay, I must have the correct timetable. Not a false timetable.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say, what Kṛṣṇa directs, evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā means to hear the truth from the spiritual master. You take this. Kṛṣṇa... Arjuna accepted, when he was puzzled whether to fight or not to fight, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru. Śiṣyas te 'ham. "Now I don't want to talk or argue with You," because as soon as you become a śiṣya you have to accept the statement of the guru. That is the relationship between guru and śiṣya. You cannot talk with guru from the same level. Whatever guru says you have to accept. Otherwise don't accept guru. Don't make a fashion of taking guru just like you keep a dog. Guru, first of all you have to select. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You have to select such a person where you can fully surrender. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted by Arjuna like that. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). First of all. "I have surrendered to you." This is the first instance (instruction?). That means whatever He says, and at last He says, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi (BG 10.14).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There we should go. I'll talk further with them. Find out what the climate is like, everything. Make sure. Wherever we go, we should pretty much be sure it is just nice. Would you like to hear some reading now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm. You can sit down here. As far as possible, while reading Caitanya-caritāmṛta you should not sit down(?) because you are with Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Unless there is some inconvenience. So at least it should be on the same level. It is respect to Caitanya-caritāmṛta book. Sit down. So you can bring milk?
| Page Title: | On the same level (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 25 of Nov, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=17, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 17 |