Not that we... (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"not that we"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:

Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, this is one of the brilliant examples of opulence, that He renounced His so happy family life, not disturbing life, and very, at a very young age, when everyone is after enjoying family life. So is it not a great opulence? Very great opulence. Young man, having good mother, good wife, good home, good reputation, good following, good parentage, beauty—everything—but He renounced. That is the greatest opulence. He renounced everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is the greatest opulence of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Similarly, if we can follow His footprints. Not that we have to give up everything, but give up everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is very nice.

So any other particular question? Yes.

Devotee: His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī accepted both Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura and Śrīla Gaurakiśora as his spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: Gaurakiśora dasa... Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was his father, and Gaurakiśora dasa Bābājī was treating Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura... Although he was householder and Gaurakiśora dāsa Bābājī was renounced order, still he used to offer great respect to Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, and Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura saw him a pure devotee; therefore he recommended his son, Bimala Prasāda. His former name was Bimala Prasāda, and he got this title Siddhānta Sarasvatī by writing one thesis on astronomy, astrology, astrological calculation according to solar system. So he got this title Siddhānta Sarasvatī. So this Siddhānta Sarasvatī, Sarasvatī title also accepted by sannyāsa. Sarasvatī, Bhāratī, Puri, Araṇya, Bon, Parvat—there are ten names of sannyāsa according to Māyāvādī school, and according to Vaiṣṇava school there are 108 names. So this "svāmī" and "gosvāmī," they're also included within that 108 names. So he accepted Gaurakiśora dasa Bābājī Maharaja his spiritual master. Yes?

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: There is no conflict at all. The conflict is between persons who are godless, who does not believe in God. Conflict is there. The conflict is not between East and West; the conflict is between the atheists and the theists. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not that we are trying to replace something by Indian method to Christian method or Jewish method. That is not our policy. This is... In one sense, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the post-graduate study of all religions. What is the method of religion? To accept the authority of God. That is the primary principle of every religion, may be Christian religion or Hindu religion or Mohammedan religion. It doesn't matter. But people are becoming godless. That is the problem. They are thinking that "There is no God. Nature is everything." That is their foolishness. They are unhappy for this godlessness. And as a result of this godlessness, the Communist party have sprang up, the hippies have sprang up and so many other things will gradually spring up. So there is no check. It is... The only check is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if people are taught that he can be happy only by reestablishing his eternal relationship with God. So our test of religion is how one has developed his God consciousness or love of God. We do not accept any principle of religion as genuine if we see that the followers have no love of God but they have got love of matter. We testify the, I mean to say, bona fides of a religious principle... Of course, in religious principle there is the teaching to become God conscious, to accept the authority of God, but because they are not properly taught, the followers are becoming godless, not only here, in India also. That is the position everywhere. So our proposition is to make people God conscious. It doesn't matter what he is. Either he is Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan, it doesn't matter. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness procedure is to raise or to develop love of Godhead. And as soon as he develops love of Godhead, then he becomes happy individually and collectively because there is love. He wants to love somebody else, but he is placing his love wrongly. He is placing his love... Even one has nobody to love, he is loving cats and dogs. So love is there, but he does not know where to place his love and be happy. This is the information, Kṛṣṇa.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Well, you said that spacesuit was not a suitable...

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. That is a fact. That is not suitable.

Reporter: That's the way they intend to go.

Prabhupāda: That is, that is not, that we can safely say that with this suit you cannot go there. You have to make a different suit. Perhaps you do not know that.

Reporter: Okay, then let's say that if with that suit they do go there and do return, would that be a contradiction?

Prabhupāda: Why contradiction? We say that if you get a suitable suit you can go there. Where is the contradiction?

Reporter: Well I thought you said the spacesuit was not suitable.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Spacesuit is not suitable. But if you can go with the spacesuit that may be contradiction, but that I am certain you cannot go.

Reporter: I'm confused.

Prabhupāda: I say... Just try to understand me, that if you can prepare a suitable body, you can go there. But this spacesuit is not the suitable body. Is that all right? Now if you actually go there by this spacesuit, that will be contradiction to my statement, but I am certain you cannot do that.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No, no, I think this will be nice because if he does outside propaganda, that will help development of this center. You make nice, what is called? Prospectus? I gave you the idea, that what is the idea of this center and make plans and where we want to construct temple, the, what is called, design of the temple, and make nicely and put before the people, and they have already known that Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is going on. So there are so many rich people in our country. If somebody comes forward, we can make very nice progress very quickly. So we have to make some propaganda amongst them. Actually it is the nicest possible thing. Simply they have to be convinced. That's a fact. Nobody can challenge our sincerity and our purity in this world. Let anyone come, any so-called society, yoga society, this society, this, that. The best thing we are presenting. There is no doubt about it. Now people has to know it, how to make it known. We have to go to the newspaper man, magazine man, to the foundations. So one responsible... One? Why one? Two, three men must move amongst them. And whenever required, if some big meeting is arranged, then I also go. People should know about our activities. We are not bogus thing. We are not that Maharshi Mahesh, that "I give you something private, and give me some money." We are not that. We have got philosophy. We have got programs. We have got authorities. So we must let people know the importance of this movement. What do you think, Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja?

Kīrtanānanda: Haribol.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hayagrīva: Well, I think...

Prabhupāda: You have to sometimes go also.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if I get time... My time is very limited. So even there is difficulty, let them read over and over and again. Then they will understand. Why should we change it? Let it be presented as Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī has given, and... Then don't give more than one or two pages at a time. Their brain will be puzzled. (laughter) Yes. When Guru Mahārāja was speaking, at least my brain was puzzled. (laughter) Even he would speak in Bengali, it was very difficult to understand. He was speaking from a very, very high platform. But I wanted to hear him. That's all. Even I did not understand it. That he appreciated, (laughs) that "This boy does not go away. He hears." Actually that was my position. In the beginning I could not understand what he was speaking, but I wanted to hear him. That's all. I was very much anxious to hear him. That he marked. And he was kindly pleased on me, that "He wants to hear. He does not go away." That was my policy, that "let me hear. Even I do not understand, let me hear." That's all. Yes. Actually I did not understand in the beginning what he was speaking. So Bhaktisiddhānta's writing is not very easy to understand. Yes. But we should try, read and read again, and simply that vibration will help us. That's all. It is transcendental vibration, not that everyone will understand. But if you simply give aural reception to the vibration, that will make him advanced, not exactly that anyone has to understand it. Yes. Just like a man is sleeping and somebody is calling him. In his sleeping condition he does not understand. By calling, calling, calling, he gets up because that vibration is there. Not that in his sleeping condition he is understanding what is this sound is coming. So similarly, we should give reception to the transcendental vibrations made by Kṛṣṇa and His bona fide representatives. That will make us awakened. Not that we understand everything.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: So you join us. Simply lip sympathy will not do. Just like these boys and girls, they have joined wholeheartedly. So I do not find any Indians.

Guest (4): I am ready to join but for my family liabilities. Is there is some...?

Prabhupāda: So you can join. You are family man, so it is not that we have no family men. We have got many family men. Now, they are all family. These girls, they have got a husband. And some of them, they are living separately. Just like one of my students, Professor Howard Wheeler. He is married man. He is living separately. Not separately. He is also conducting our, one establishment, New Vrindaban. So it is not that one has to live with us. He can live separately also, but his whole life is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted.

Guest (4): I would like to live with you and tour with you.

Prabhupāda: So why not come and live and tour with me? Who forbids you? But it is not possible to pay anything for your family expenditure. That is difficulty. We cannot pay anything but you can live with your family. That responsibility you can take. But I cannot pay you. That's not possible. Because we are maintaining by collecting alms. In that case it is not possible to pay something. There is... (break) It is selling all over Europe. (Hindi)

Guest (4): Mahārāja, could you employ me in some...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, employ, I can employ in any way. But there is no payment.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Temple Press Conference -- August 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: From the authorities, from God, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).

Male Interviewer: But if somebody else was to say that God had told him something else, would you equally believe him?

Śyāmasundara: It's not that we don't accept other religious processes.

Prabhupāda: No, we believe other process. Just like there are steps. If you want to go to the topmost story, so you go by steps. So some of them have gone fifty steps, some of them have gone hundred steps, but to complete the required steps is 1,000 steps.

Male Interviewer: And you've gone up the thousand have you?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Woman Interviewer: If any of us here this morning wish to become followers what would we have to give or give up?

Prabhupāda: First of all one has to give up illicit sex life.

Woman Interviewer: Does that include all sex life or...?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Woman Interviewer: What is illicit?

Prabhupāda: Illicit sex (is) without marriage, without any relation, sex life, that is illicit sex life.

Woman Interviewer: So sex is allowed in marriage, but not outside.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversations -- April 22, 1972, Japan:

Prabhupāda: Temple must have. Even ordinary gṛhastha. That is Vedic civilization, not that we cook for ourself, for my husband, for my wife and children, eat it sumptuously and go to bed. No. Even gṛhastha, he should be always prepared to receive guest. Yes. And even a guest comes, your enemy, you should receive him in such a nice way that he will forget that you are all enemies. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam. This is Vedic civilization, not that "Beware of dog. Please don't enter here. You are forbidden to come here. And if you come, I shall shoot you." Sometimes they do that. This is not human civilization. It is cats' and dogs' civilization. So actually we are teaching what is human civilization. But we must be also like human being, not cats and dogs. Otherwise how can you teach? If I am like cats and dogs, I cannot criticize others as cats and dogs. I must be first of all human being. Then I shall teach others how to become human being. I must become first of all devotee. Then I shall request others to become devotee. Āpani ācari jīve śikhāilā bhakti. First behave yourself perfectly; then teach others to become perfect. That is preacher. Now we are selling The Process of Creation but if I do not know what is the process of creation, we do not read, if you go to sell some book, then if he says, "What is the process of creation? You explain," and if you say, "All right, let me consult my book..." Kuto gata vedyaḥ para-hasta-gataṁ dhānam. Para-hasta-gataṁ dhānam means, "I have got enough wealth." "Where it is?" "It is in other hands. It is not in my possession, in others' possession." This kind of possessing wealth has no value. Similarly, when somebody asks you some question, if you say, "Let me consult my book," that knowledge has no value. "Let me consult my book." So all these books are there. You see one śloka studying, knowing. It takes one hour. So there are millions of ślokas. How much you have to study. So these things are to be noted. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means perfection, all round perfection. Then people will much appreciate. There is no doubt about it. And we can go anywhere, everywhere, because we are pure. We are giving the right thing. So is there any artist here who can draw? You can?

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Well, intermarriage, that has introduced according to the social system. But so far we are concerned, we are allowing intermarriage from any country, any... If he's Kṛṣṇa conscious, we help him marry. There are so many intermarriages in our society. So try to understand this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and spread it so that there will be oneness—one God, one scripture, one nation, one religion—according to Vedic injunction. Not that we are manufacturing something. That is the Vedic injunction.

Guest (2): What is the speciality of Vedic injunction compared to Hebrew scriptures?

Prabhupāda: Vedic injunction is, the ultimate goal of human life, to go back to home, back to Godhead. That's all. This is not... As... I have already explained that this is not our home, material world. We are spirit soul. Our real home is spiritual world. So in the lives, different species of life, 8,400,000's of species of life, they cannot understand it, that we are spirit soul, our home is in the spiritual world. They cannot understand it. That opportunity is available in this human form of life. Therefore if we don't take advantage of this information and prepare ourself accordingly, then we are losing the opportunity. Tad api aphala-janma. Anāśrita govinda-caraṇa-dvayam.(?)

Guest (2): But how does this differ from the Hebrew scriptures? Hebrews also say the same thing, you know, that you have fallen down from the heaven and go back...

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: That, not only in India. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not meant for India or America. Of course, I am deputed by my Guru Mahārāja to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the Western world. That is his grace. He wanted that Western people, who are intelligent, they should learn what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So my mission is for the Western country, but it is not meant for any particular country, nation. It is meant for every living entity. Now, there are many unfortunate living entities and there are many fortunate living entities. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in America or Western country, only the fortunate persons they are coming. But if few of them come and understand, then by their example and behavior, the whole population will be benefited. It is not expected that cent percent population will be able to understand this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but by the examples of the few, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). Just like you'll find in our temple it is always crowded to the fullest extent. We require a more spacious home. But not all of them our initiated students. Out of them say ten percent may be our initiated students. But still people are coming to see. They are following. Gradually they will also become student. So it is a very important movement, scientific movement. I therefore request learned scholars like you, government, scientist, philosopher, they should study. For them we have written so many books. Not only that. It is not that we are simply chanting and dancing. If you are philosopher, if you are scholar, if you are scientist, we can give you proof in a scientific way, in a philosophical way, scholarly way; therefore these books are there. So my only request is that all the leaders of the society, they should come forward, study this movement and take to it. That will be beneficial. We don't ask blindly, just like one follows some faith or type of religion blindly, and after sometimes they give it up. No. We say, our predecessor Lord Caitanya says, caitanyer dayār kathā karaha avicara(?). You just put your judgment about the mercy of Lord Caitanya, and if you do that then you will find wonder in this movement. (aside) So, you put little ice. Ice, bring little ice. (devotees enter and offer obeisances) Hare Kṛṣṇa, come on. Yes. Thank you very much. (to guest) So you accept this definition, of religion, that religion means the law given by God. Simple point. Have you got any objection, or do you accept it?

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna." So God is there; that's a fact. Anyone can go back to Him and live an eternal life full of bliss and knowledge simply by knowing about it. When God Himself comes, all great ācāryas, stalwart men accept Him: "Yes, He is God." If we simply understand God, we make a solution to all our problems. What is the problem? Because we are part and parcel of God, we are qualitatively equal with Him. God is eternal, and we are eternal. God is blissful, and we are blissful. God is full of knowledge; we are also full of knowledge. Unfortunately we are hampered by this material body. Therefore our problem is how to get out of this material body and come to our spiritual body. The spiritual body is there, just as our real body is present underneath our shirt and coat. I, you, and every one of us is a spiritual spark, part and parcel of God, and we are placed within a gross and subtle body. When this particular body is finished, we are carried by a subtle body into another gross body. That is called transmigration of the soul. And when we finally get free from the subtle body also, we go back home, back to Godhead. It is that easy. Human beings therefore should endeavor to get out of this gross and subtle body, attain the spiritual body and go back home. That should be the aim of human endeavor. Not that we should simply live like animals. Animals cannot get out of the gross and subtle body because to extricate oneself one must know in fact what God is. An animal cannot know what God is, but a human being can. That is the opportunity afforded by this body; nature gives us this human body just to understand God, and if we simply use it for animal propensities, we again go to the animal kingdom. That is a form of punishment.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: No, actually... Hindu, the word is not to be found in our Vedic scripture. It is the name given by the Mohammedans. So that is going on. Actually it is called varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas, four āśrama. The four varṇas, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And four āśramas-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Combined together it is called varṇāśrama. So unless the human being follows this varṇāśrama principle he's not a human being. He's animal, because animal has no varṇa, no āśrama. The human society must be divided. Then, just like in this body there are four divisions—the head division, the arms division, the belly division, and the leg division—all these are required for complete body. Although, by comparative study, head is the most important department, but still the leg is not... that we don't require leg. Leg is also required. Similarly, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they're required to function the society perfectly. That is varṇa. And similarly, for spiritual emancipation there must be the division: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So unless you accept this institution perfectly you cannot develop your consciousness as perfect human being.

Scholar: This divisions only in Hindus?

Prabhupāda: No, this division is meant for everyone.

Scholar: Mohammedans also accept this divisions?

Scholar: Yes. They're accepting. If you don't accept any scientific truth that is your business. That is your business. If you say-two plus two equal to four—"No I don't accept." That is your business. But two plus two equal to four, that is a fact everywhere. Now how these boys have accepted? Now they have got sacred thread, they have become brāhmaṇa.

Scholar: Yes.

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: When he is incorrigible. First of all you have to try to correct him and... That is preaching. Our preaching means that people are useless, we have to train them in such a way they may take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our management. But if he is completely incorrigible, then he will be asked to leave. Otherwise it is not our business that as soon as we see something he is doing wrong..., that he must be trained, by our example, by our teaching, by our word, śānta yaṁ cinvanti kutiḥ (?). By word, by example, he should be corrected. If I cannot correct him by my words and example, that is also my (indistinct). Because they are, they are, you cannot expect that everyone has come here, sādhu. It is not that. We collect from ordinary men, but we have to make him sādhu. That is preaching. That is preaching. That you have to do tactfully. Not that because one is incorrigible... After trying all our ways, if he is still incorrigible, then you can ask. Not that for paltry reason he cannot be..., "Get out." That "get out," if you make, then everything has to be "get out." That is not the policy. Policy is first of all to correct him. That is preaching. As far as possible by example, by teaching, by everything.

Devotee: Engagement.

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: By engaging. That is our school. It is a school. If a student does not learn nicely, you cannot say, "Get out." As far as possible. But when it is absolutely impossible to correct him, then you have to ask. And if there is money, equal you have to manage some money, what can be done? But I don't think if we try our best to correct him, this ultimate punishment will be required. Human being, after all human being, and our business is to teach and become ideal ourself. Āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya. We have to teach by our personal behavior. If you rise early in the morning, if you take your bath, if you sit down regularly and keep them (indistinct), how he can deny? How one can deny? It is not possible. But if I smoke, I ask others not to smoke, that will never be possible. Āpani ācari prabhu jīvere, first of all you have to be. If one is not cleansing, you shall tell me (indistinct) this way. We have to do like that. Not that I (order), "Come on, you do this. Oh, you cannot do, get out." Not that. We show him. After all, our life is sacrificed for preaching and that preaching means one should behave himself, nicely. He cannot say that "You do not do this." Just like one day in London there was some talks with Nanda Kumāra, you. He was accusing you, you were accusing him. I heard from (indistinct). So you should do in such a way that he cannot accuse you. If you ask him to rise early in the morning, take your bath, and if you do not take. Supposing some special case. I was taking early bath. Now I do not take, because due to my health. That is because... Otherwise regularly I was taking. Not even hot water. Regularly. This hot water bath I have begun in your country, otherwise I have never taken. Even in severest cold. Here also I am trying to avoid. I am keeping tub of water sunshine. Whatever little warm may become, that's all. So, of course, for special health reason one cannot rise, he is sick and cannot attend, otherwise everyone should rise early in the morning, take bath and be ready for performing our service by six o'clock or five o'clock. And the kīrtana party, you should know everyone go. It may be small distance, but all our men should go. That will be real (indistinct), early in the morning. So many parties come.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Nobody asked any questions.

Brahmānanda.: Blind leading the blind.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Anyway he has admitted, "I do not know." That is sufficient defeat for him. But they are shameless. In spite of being defeated, they won't admit that "I am defeated." Not gentlemen. Formerly between two learned scholars there will be argument. If one is defeated... Just like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. As soon as he became defeated, he became His disciple. That's all. That was the system. Not that we go on arguing for hours, and one is defeated; still, he remains the same. No. If you are defeated, then you must accept the other party as your master. That was the system. As soon as he said that I do not know, he should have become your disciple. That is the system. "If you do not know why you have come to teach me."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He should come and become a disciple of Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, Prabhupāda... No. We want everyone to become Kṛṣṇa's disciple. That is our mission. We are disciplic succession. The original master is Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Haṁsadūta: What does that mean exactly? Are we not moving? In that verse it says immovable and...

Prabhupāda: Sthāṇu, means fixed up.

Haṁsadūta: You mean its nature is...?

Prabhupāda: Unchangeable.

Haṁsadūta: Unchangeable. Not that we are not moving. We are moving.

Prabhupāda: Might be that word was not properly used. Sthāṇu, the word is sthāṇu. If you have got Sanskrit, you know what is the meaning of sthāṇu. And acalo 'yam, acalo 'yam, yes.

Revatīnandana: The point of all those...

Prabhupāda: That means acalo 'yam also, so acalo 'yam. Acalo 'yam means that does not move. Sthāṇur acalo 'yam, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is given. You can see. Now there is no time.

Revatīnandana: It's time for class. (end)

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He's thoroughly understanding-before killing. Not that "We have (indistinct) reason to kill." No. So we are rather unhappy that in London I've seen thousands of churches practically closed. Nobody is going there. We are not happy to see. This is happening. But why people are abstaining from going to the church? Although there is Pope, and so many priests and other things. Why?

Reporter: It has become an institution, and there is no more religious...

Prabhupāda: Life.

Reporter: ...experience in life.

Prabhupāda: There is no life. A simple thing, that if you disobey the orders of Lord Christ, how will you become a Christian, first of all? Where is your Christianity? Simply rubber-stamping "I'm Christian" you become a Christian, without following the tenets?

Reporter: Same as you were saying, Nehru was not a brāhmaṇa, but only because he was called brāhmaṇa. So...

Prabhupāda: No, why Nehru? Everyone.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: We are simply trying to present them, that's all. It is not we have manufactured something, no. There is no question of concoction, manufacturing.

David Lawrence: No. Just passing on what has already been there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is already there. When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is already there. When we speak of Vṛndāvana, Vṛndāvana is already there. It is not that we have manufactured some picture, imagination, no. They take it like that. The rascals take it like that, that it is a kind of imagination of the poet. The Māyāvādī philosophers also take like that. But that's not the fact. It is actually presentation of the spiritual facts and as the spiritual activities are quite different from material activities, they misunderstand. They misunderstand.

David Lawrence: Yes. It's one of the interesting features was, of this little bit about Lord Caitanya was in fact that he claimed Him to be pathological.

Prabhupāda: Just like...

David Lawrence: You know the manifestations obviously of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and kīrtana and so on. Seems to be obviously you regard as a scurrilous or wrong-headed or a dull-headed field of people who regard His manifestations of God consciousness as verging on madness, or temporary madness. What would you say about that. Obviously you would reject it.

Prabhupāda: When a man is himself mad, he'll find others mad.

David Lawrence: Yes, true. (laughter) Yes, he sees a reflection of himself.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Pie. That rascal could not save himself. And he's God.

Karandhara: But I was not using the comparison in that sense. The sense I was using it in... to a scientist, if you tell him "You have to believe in Kṛṣṇa to realize He is God..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not belief, it is fact. It is not... that we protest.

Karandhara: But the disciples of Guru Maharaji say the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Karandhara: They say they've seen Guru Maharaji lifting Govardhana Hill, and they've seen his universal form.

Prabhupāda: No, Govardhana Hill, when he lifted, everyone saw.

Karandhara: The scientists want to see it also to believe in Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so show him. Show him. But prove him. Then everybody says that... I have got some disciple. I can say also, "I am God. My disciples have seen it. Believe me." Say that.

Karandhara: Well, that's why they won't believe in Kṛṣṇa. They know that everyone can say that.

Yaśomatīnandana: It is accepted by the higher authorities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 11, 1974, Los Angeles:

Satsvarūpa: ...by reading the books, he'd understood that we should become completely desireless. So he wanted more explanation. And in the car coming out Śrīla Prabhupāda just explained that our desire can't go away because that's the symptom of the living entity. We have to have some desire. But real desirelessness means that you have no more material desire. Material desire: someone is always desiring from God, "Give me this, give me this." But when we become purified, then our desire is that "Kṛṣṇa, please take me. Please take me. Whatever service I can render, please accept it." But when one has not enough information, then he desires... His idea of desirelessness is to become like a dead stone. Simply to... Because desire causes suffering and it's bad, material desire, therefore let me simply stop it and become... That will be desireless. But that is not, that state is not possible because our symptom of life is to have desire. So we answer him in this way, to become purified and simply serve Kṛṣṇa all the time. Not that we stop any activities. Prabhupāda was saying he is working day and night. So you cannot become absorbed in nothing. In order to become purely desireless, you have to have some activity that will always... There is a place, there is a plane of spiritual desire, spiritual activity. So there's... (pause)

Prabhupāda: What do you have to say about this? Do you understand, desireless and desireful?

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guru dāsa: If there is a devotees who are not yet purified, if the devotee is not yet purified, why is the temple president a representative of you? If we are not at the purified stage, then why is the temple president a representative of yourself?

Prabhupāda: To carry his order. That is purification. If you create your own atmosphere, then you become impure. If you simply carry out the order of your spiritual master, then you will be benefited. If you do your own business, that is not good. You can not do anything which is not ordered by your spiritual master. Of course, everyone should have sense. It is not that we are dull, stone. Unless it is moved, it cannot... You have got moving power. But the basic issue should be to carry out the orders of his spiritual master. That is your president. Otherwise you are not.

Harikeśa: Sometimes we have the experience of someone in authority who is obviously not following your instructions.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: Sometimes we have the experience, someone in authority who is obviously not following your instructions.

Prabhupāda: That you have not to judge.

Harikeśa: Ah.

Prabhupāda: You are not to judge. You should be, you should know that this man is appointed, and he gets here by spiritual process. I must follow. You cannot judge him.

Harikeśa: Oh.

Devotee: (indistinct)

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Samādhi, we are offering respect to the ācāryas. Yes. Not that we are simply worshiping samādhi. We are worshiping Kṛṣṇa also, side by side. It is not that... Then samādhi worship is finished. That is ācārya. Ācārya is, although worshiped as the Supreme Lord, but the Lord is also worshiped. And these Māyāvādīs, they give up the worship of Lord. So therefore they are Māyāvādīs. In Māyāvādī temple you'll find the picture of the guru and not the picture of Kṛṣṇa. I have seen in Surat, one temple of "Rāma." There is no Rāma. Guru is Rāma. That's all. Guru brahma, (Hindi) (break) ...caittya-guru, because he has merged into the existence of Lord, he has become Lord. "Merging-Lord. Daridra-nārāyaṇa, merging-nārāyaṇa." This is...

Devotee: The Jains have the same kind of philosophy also.

Prabhupāda: Everyone. All philosophies, they are more or less Māyāvāda. All Māyāvāda. Different types of Māyāvāda philosophy. Therefore they should be discarded. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. What you are, all students?

Students: Yes. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Student: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: You have seen our temple?

Student: Not seen your temple.

Prabhupāda: So? You are not interested in Kṛṣṇa philosophy?

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, yes. That is our mercy, that we take advantage of their creation to bless them. We don't require all these things, but we take the advantage: "Because he has done something, let us take it." Just like we are using the microphone. So we don't require any microphone, but because he has created, that is the proper utilization. Not for sense gratification, cinema song. That is not required.

Indian man (1): Cinema can be used for education.

Prabhupāda: That can be used. Everything can be used. Everything can be used. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Therefore we are "lessoning" people that "Whatever you have done is rotten. Utilize for Kṛṣṇa." That is our purpose, not that we enjoy these.

Indian man (1): So for improving our morality.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that "Everything, what you have done, it is all right. Utilize for saṅkīrtana yajña." Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa... Rūpa Gosvāmī has recommended that

anasaktyasya viṣayān

yathārham upayuñjataḥ

nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe

yukta-vairāgyam ucyate

We have no attachment for these things. Just like in America, I ride on Rolls Royce car. That does not mean because in India there is no Rolls Royce car, therefore I shall not walk.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Guest (2): What is the ultimate aim of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes, ultimate aim is that there is spirit and matter. As there is material world, there is spiritual world also. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ avyaktaḥ avyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). The spiritual world is eternal. The material world is temporary. We are spirit soul. We are eternal. Therefore our business is to go back to the spiritual world, not that we remain in the material world and change body from bad to worse or worse to bad, er, good. That is not our business. That is a disease. Our healthy life is to enjoy eternal life. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). So our human life should be utilized for attaining that perfectional stage—not to get any more this material body which we have to change. This is the aim of life.

Guest (3): Is that perfection possible in one life?

Prabhupāda: Yes, in one moment, if you agree. Kṛṣṇa says that

sarva-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

(BG 18.66)

We change our body on account of sinful activities, but if we surrender to Kṛṣṇa and take Kṛṣṇa consciousness, immediately you are on the spiritual platform.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Then why he has said, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then hypocrisy. Then you reject Jesus complete. He is a hypocrite. Yes. That is the conclusion. How can you follow hypocrite? Huh? Is that all right? If Jesus Christ himself killed animals and he said, "Thou shalt not kill," then he is a hypocrite. Then he cannot preach. He is a hypocrite. You are bringing Christ for condemnation. But how a hypocrite can be the head or can be the religious man or can be...

Akṣayānanda: It is not that we are saying he is a hypocrite.

Prabhupāda: He is proving.

Akṣayānanda: He himself, the Christian is saying that Jesus Christ is a hypocrite.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: So why is he following?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañcadraviḍa: They still eat the sheep.

Satsvarūpa: The main thing they usually say is that kill means murder. That man at Bhaktivedanta Manor, that priest, he said the original Hebrew, the word means "murder." So this is an instruction to mankind not to murder, but it is not... But they have other places in the scripture where they point out that the animal is allowed for man to eat. So they just were showing us their scriptures.

Prabhupāda: It is said, "It is murder."

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not going to stop employment. We live like this. You see. If you like, you live like us.

Bhagavān: Example.

Prabhupāda: Example.

Satsvarūpa: Not that we dictate to the... Not that we are going to force everyone.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not going to force anyone. "Our mode of living is like this. If you like you can adopt." Just like we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we are not forcing anyone that "You also, you must chant." No. We live like this.

Dhanañjaya: So in fact, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we should start using bullock carts.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, first of all you start the community project, as we have already started in New Vrindaban. Make this perfect.

Devotee: There was a big meeting of scientists in Stockholm, Sweden, and they talked that if humanity don't begin to live in a localized way like you say, in fifty years will be no more source of production.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. We can produce from anywhere, foodstuff.

Bhagavān: What about the question of using petrol for heat? Another import, there is three uses of petrol, or four. One is the transportation, one is heat, another is electricity, and a fourth is they use it to manufacture so many products. So what if someone asks...

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No. My point was, point is that... Because one is fourth-class, therefore we are not interested in that—it is not my point. My point is that there are four classes of men: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. And our point of view, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for taking care of all classes of men. Although by natural division there are four classes of men, first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class, but the example we generally give, just like in your body there are four divisions: the head division, the arm division, the belly division and the leg division, but all of them meant for keeping the body fit. And body is meant for giving supply to everyone of them. But if you comparatively make division, the head comes the first division, the arms comes the second division, the belly comes the third division, and the legs comes the fourth division. So we should organize in such a way that all the classes of men in the society be happy, not that we simply take care of the head. The same example: In your body it is not your business just simply take care of the head or the legs. No. All these different divisions of your body, you take care. That is healthy body. When your brain is working nicely, when your arms are working nicely, your abdomen is working nicely and legs are working nicely, then you are fit. If you simply take care of the legs, not of the brain, that is not a good healthy body.

C. Hennis: Yeah. I think...

Prabhupāda: Just let me finish. So United Nation is taking care of the fourth class department of the society. What they are taking care of the first-class department? That is my question?

Nitāi: He is asking what are they doing to care for that first division.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So bhakti school does not very much appreciate the speculative method. They surrender and they try to get knowledge directly from the Supreme Lord, as Bhagavad-gītā is being spoken by the Supreme Lord, or statements of the pure highly elevated devotees, just like Brahmā is speaking. This way. Hearing. The main purpose is hearing, hearing from the right source. That is... Especially in the western world, instead of hearing from the right source, they want to speculate about the Absolute. We have got about twenty books like this, but they are not speculation. They are simply by hearing. I am writing what I have heard, not that I am speculating. Mostly, the philosophers, they write as they speculate. They write their own opinion. But our process is not that. We don't speculate. We present the statements of God and His devotees. There is the whole book. Anywhere you won't find, "I think," "In my opinion," "Perhaps it should be like this way." No. We don't do that. As soon as there is "perhaps" or "maybe," that is not perfect knowledge. That is speculation. Just like in the Padma-Purāṇa, there is statement of different species of life, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi, statement that "There are 900,000 species of life in the water." It is not written like this, "Perhaps," "it may be." No. Neither says one million or 800,000. No. 900,000 specifically. So how do they get this knowledge, exactly seeing? Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati (?). Now, in another place, the magnitude of the soul is explained. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya (CC Madhya 19.140). In the Upaniṣad also it is stated that 10,000th part of the top of the hair point, is the magnitude of the soul. Our knowledge is accepted in that way, Vedic knowledge. Whatever is stated in the Vedas, that is taken as Absolute Truth and we accept it. And that is fact. If you go to the same point by experimental truth, you will come to the same conclusion. So we think that by experimental knowledge, why should we waste our time? Better take the truth which is already stated in the Vedic literature and build up your farther premises on that basic principle. Just like that small fragment of spirit, 1/10,000th portion of the top of the hair, is there within you, within me, and that is rotating through the air, prāṇa, apāna, vyāna, like that, the vāyu. The yogic process is to capture it.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Priest: I mean, what devotees? You have got bhakti also in the Śaivite , all the others.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument, if you say that it is not special, then you will say that you can chant any name.

Priest: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We say that God's name is special, whatever name it is. Not that we eliminate God, saying He's not special. He is special. Whether you call Him by this authorized name or that authorized name, His name is special because it's nondifferent from Him. So not that we should just overlook the name of God because we're overlooking God. We do that, so we have to...

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Harer nāma means God's name.

Priest: You see, for instance, in Christianity for a long time there was a bhakti, and this bhakti was devoted to the name of Jesus. So for a very long time you had that Jesus bhakti. And in your country, in America today, like you have got the Hare Kṛṣṇa, you have got also the Jesus devotees. Now, this is also present in many places. And the name does not matter. There is no name who has got the... Because then you find again what...

Prabhupāda: No. If Jesus is the name of God, then you can chant. If Jesus is the name of God. But Jesus, Lord Jesus Christ, says that he is son of God. Of course, there is no difference between son and the father. That is another thing. But still, if I want the father, how by calling the name of son I can get the father? That is also another thing.

Priest: Yeah, but I mean, this is another point.

Prabhupāda: But if you have got the father's name, why should you call Him by the son's name?

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What is that? I do not follow.

Bhagavān: When Brahmā creates the different species, they're not created one at a time. They're... All over the universe, there's different species which he creates?

Prabhupāda: Brahmā is created first. So he does not belong to the species. Immediately, he's a demigod. So where is the question of evolution?

Bhagavān: Yeah. So you understand? Brahmā is created first. So it's not that we started from one-celled animals and worked up to Brahmā.

Satsvarūpa: But on a particular planet is it like that?

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Satsvarūpa: Are, are there sophisticated...

Prabhupāda: In the material world.

Satsvarūpa: The human beings are there from the very beginning on the earth too?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. They're... Beings are already there, everywhere.

Satsvarūpa: But you said it was all submerged in water.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But he's there. Suppose if you live within the water, does it mean that you are not existing?

Satsvarūpa: No, but generally, human beings...

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: Or the books.

Prabhupāda: No, if you eat the prasādam, you'll be purified.

Yogeśvara: Our spiritual master was explaining in Geneva to a reporter that there are different levels of understanding. It's not that we always have to have a philosophical understanding of things in order to appreciate them. Sometimes we can just appreciate that this prasādam tastes so very good. That's also correct.

M. Lallier: Yes, but in occidental countries, we have a tendency to try to understand things by a mental way.

Karandhara: Well, that can also be done. You can hear, listen to the philosophy, and then..., but in order to really examine it thoroughly, you have to experiment with a hypothesis. We say if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and eat prasādam, you become pure. So that may be a hypothesis so long as you don't try it, but as you try it, you come to realize that it's an actual fact. Just like if the doctor advises you to take a certain medicine for a cure of an illness, you may not have the understanding to know how that cure is going to work, but if the doctor is actually qualified, and you follow his orders, then you'll become cured, even if you didn't understand it in the beginning.

Bhagavān: The problem is if you don't try.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Na hanyate, does not die, hanyamāne śarīre, apparently, the body being dead, the soul is never dead. (French)

Yogeśvara: So... Shall I explain that one? What the good Pastor—are they called Pastor?—describes is that in order for there to be a dialogue, we have to respect each others' positions, not that we will try to convert the other. He says just as we respect you have an absolute faith in the Vedic philosophy, so also there must be respect that the Christian interpretation of the life of Lord Jesus and his death...

Prabhupāda: Oh, I think I have better respect than him to Jesus Christ. I say he does not die. He says he dies. (French) So far respect is concerned, I have more respect than them. They want to see Jesus Christ dead. I don't want to see him dead.

French Woman: No. Death and resurrection after, Jesus.

Yogeśvara: There's a resurrection.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: Excuse me. Perhaps at this time we can introduce Madame, Madame Devi?

Jyotirmayī: So we'd like to introduce Mrs. Devi, who came here also to meet you. She's a very wonderful lady. She's writing a dictionary of mysticism, and she did the whole first part on Western religions, and now she wants to do the following part on the Eastern religions. So she would like very much to talk in this book about ourselves, about the movement of Hare Kṛṣṇa which is a big part of the Oriental religions.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Recently, there was a historical excavation that Jesus Christ did not die, and he, after crucification, he was taken to Kashmir.

Yogeśvara: Kashmir?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (French)

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Serpent mother also, Kali-yuga. (break) ...they are keeping, but it is not possible to give them food by purchasing. They are taking food from the street. Similarly, the poor man keep a cow. It is not possible to purchase food for the cows. So maintain in this way, so, by natural food. And in Germany I have seen. They are not given extra food. They are living by pasturing ground. That should be arranged. They should get food from the ground, not that we have to purchase food for them. Then you cannot maintain.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We just recently went to Govardhana Hill. Several years ago the grass at Govardhana Hill was very nice and long and green. This year, though, it didn't seem so green. It was very brown and...

Prabhupāda: Yes, from Kṛṣṇa's time the Govardhana grass was being supplied to the cows. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommended, "Better worship Govardhana Hill. Why you are going to Indra?"

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So that means that it is possible for long green grasses to grow in this area.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everywhere. The only difficulty is there is no water, no supply of water. In the rainy season this will be all green immediately, immediately, without any delay. So, the only difficulty—there is no water.

Guest: In Gujarat now the same problem is there and they are digging well, five-acre well, just we have dug at Māyāpur, and collecting water. Rainwater is collected that way. So here also it can be done for a small farm. (break)

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, because you, without seeing Him, you do not develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You require to see Him. So He has appeared before you so that you can see Him. That is His mercy, so that you see Him and you think of Him. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. You see Him and think of Him. That is the meaning of picture. You cannot say, "I have not seen God." Here is God. You see God's picture here in the temple. In the śāstra description is there. Just like in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣam: (Bs. 5.30) "Kṛṣṇa is playing on His flute." That is the information in the Vedas. Here He is playing on flute. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāya... "His eyes are like lotus petal." You see? The description in the Vedas and the picture the same. It is not imagination. It is in the Veda. Vedas will give you information. Then surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). There are cows. Kṛṣṇa is very much fond of cows. So what is stated in the Vedas about Kṛṣṇa, that is depicted.

It is not imagination, not that we have imagined something like, "This is like..." No. It is corroborated, established by Vedic knowledge. So you'll find Kṛṣṇa's form like this everywhere. In India there are millions of temples. Everywhere you will find this.

Mother: How old is Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: He is never old. That is material question. He is the oldest person. He is the origin of everything.

Mother: It is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore He is the oldest. That is stated in the Brahma... Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33), ananta-rūpam, ādyam, the origin, nava-yauvanam, but He is always young man. He is the oldest person. He is the original father, from whom we are all born, but He is always young. Nava-yauvanam. Nava, nava means newly youthful life. It is not that because Kṛṣṇa is the oldest person, therefore He has become very old. No. That is material conception. (whispering between mother and daughter) (pause)

Conversation in car -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So we have to take little patience. That is preaching work. Don't be impatient. Let us do our duty on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Even the result is not very appreciable, still we have to do it. This is preaching. Just like Nityānanda Prabhu. He was hurt by Jagāi-Mādhāi. Still, He determined, "No, these two boys must be delivered." This is the example. "Never mind, they have injured Me; still, I shall deliver them." And He did it. They became Vaiṣṇava. So our preaching determination should be like that, not that we are failure in some cases, and therefore give it up. No. This is our business. We must go on doing this. Failure or success, it doesn't matter. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said to preach. He never said, "If you are failure, don't preach." Never said that. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "Whomever you meet, you just give him the instruction of Kṛṣṇa." He never says that "If somebody does not hear you, don't do it." No. Kṛṣṇa said that "Don't talk with the fools and rascals and those who are not undergone some penances."

Kṛṣṇa said. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind. He said, "To everyone say."

Śrutakīrti: So we are following Lord Caitanya's...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like I came to western country with no hope. I knew that my Godbrother, Bon Mahārāja, came, he failed. Then Gosvāmī Mahārāja was there, so many swamis and yogis came here, nobody could turn them. So I came here just with a purpose, "Let me try." But I was not hopeful at all. But Kṛṣṇa's grace, it is now successful.

Devotee (1): A great success.

Prabhupāda: And therefore let us try. And success, no success, depend on Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: Many of the students at the Graduate Theological Union, they might want to come to our college to take just one or two courses. Would it be all right for them to do that?

Prabhupāda: No, everyone is welcome. But they must see what is our ideal. Then one day they will also come. So our ideal should be always there, not that we make some compromise. Then it will not be effective.

Dharmādhyakṣa: In the catalogue we say that to get a degree one must be following the regulative principles, that that is as much an important requirement as the study, academic study.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very important thing. Otherwise, just like in India, there are caste brāhmaṇas, but they have no ideal, and therefore it is not working.

Bahulāśva: Two āratiks a day, sixteen rounds—these would be also course requirements.

Dharmādhyakṣa: In the study of theology, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is a section called phenomenology, and phenomenology means the study of the actual practices. So actually, they already have this, but they don't actually practice themselves in their schools. But in our schools we would demand practice. (break)

Bahulāśva: ...could also learn what is Deity worship, how it should be performed. They'd have to learn about chanting...

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: A brāhmaṇa's business is paṭhan pāṭhan yajan yājan danaḥ pratigrahaḥ. Brāhmaṇa means he is learned himself. He is a very erudite scholar. That is brāhmaṇa's first qualification. And he makes others also scholars, not that he remains himself a scholar. This is called paṭhan pāṭhan. Then yajan yājan. Yajan means he worships the Deity, and he teaches others how to worship. Danaḥ pratigrahaḥ. He accepts charity from others, contribution, and he gives it to others. That we have mentioned, I think. What he gets in the day, he gives in the night. So these are six principles to become a brāhmaṇa. Otherwise, if he gets the degree and he smokes, he does not follow, he does not act... Because cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Kṛṣṇa said, "The four divisions are according to quality and work." Whether he is qualified, that will be proved by his work, not that he has taken the degree, and now he is smoking. That is going on. Academic means this. They get the degrees and after that they do all nonsense. That is academic. But this Vedic culture is not like that. He must act. Then it will be all right. (break) ...the western culture, the idea is "Never mind whatever his private character. We don't mind. He has passed Ph.D, so let him become teacher." This is western culture. "By privately, he may be rascal. It doesn't matter." That is not brahminical culture. There is no "private" or "public." Antar bahiḥ. Antar means internally, and bahiḥ means external. We... That chant, that ācamana mantra?

apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthaṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bahyābhyāntara-śuciḥ

Bahya means external, and abhyāntara means internal, not duplicity. That bahya, externally something, and internally something, that will not be successful. Bahyābhyāntaraṁ śuciḥ. Śuciḥ means purified, brāhmaṇa. And who is not purified, he is muciḥ. (break) We have to present an ideal institution, not that we make compromise with everybody. That is not our business. We don't want stars. We want moon. What is the use of millions of stars? Get one moon. That is sufficient. (break) ...not expect everyone to become brāhmaṇa. That is not possible.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So badly love is not love.

Dr. Pore: But is the converse true, that we chant very well and that we can love Kṛṣṇa even when we cannot love our fellow people?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that... We are not... Chanting... We are also working. It is not that we are simply sitting down and chanting. Because we are chanting, therefore we are loving everyone. That is a fact. These Hare Kṛṣṇa chanters, they will never agree to kill any animal, even a plant, because they know everything is part and parcel of God. Why unnecessarily one should be killed? That is love.

Dr. Pore: Love means never killing?

Prabhupāda: There are so many things. It is one of the items. Yes, that is one of the... Do you kill your own son? Why? Because you love him.

Dr. Judah: Would you explain the other side of it, the fact that, of course, the Bhagavad-gītā was, has its setting on a battlefield in which Kṛṣṇa enjoins Arjuna to go out and fight his kinsmen because it is his duty as a kṣatriya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because in the material world, for the maintenance of equilibrium of the society, sometimes killing is necessary. Just like fight, war. When the enemy has come to your country, you cannot sit idly; you must fight. But that does not mean that you are allowed to kill everyone as you like. That is a special circumstances when fighting must be there. Therefore the kṣatriyas are required to give protection. Like the government is keeping military, police, soldiers, that does not mean government is after killing only. That department will be utilized when there is necessity, not that government is meant for killing. Government has other departments also.

Car Conversation from Airport -- July 3, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: They say because it's not possible by ordinary means to predict a person's birth, because Lord Buddha is mentioned in Śrīmad-Bhāgava...

Prabhupāda: Still there is a science, Bhṛgu-saṁhitā, which will give you prediction of your next birth. Still there is science, Bhṛgu-saṁhitā. He'll give you description of three lives: your past life, present life, and future life. Bhṛgu-saṁhitā. (break) ...Bhāgavata it is said bhaviṣyati. Kikaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati. Bhaviṣyati means "He will appear." Why it is not possible? You haven't got that knowledge, that is another thing. But it is possible. (break) ...one word: tri-kāla-jñā. Tri-kāla-jñā means "one who knows past, present, and future." Kṛṣṇa says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). "I know everything past, present..."

Brahmānanda: Equally, He says. Sama tītāni. He knows the past, the present and the future.

Prabhupāda: And He says in another place, "It is not that we were not existing in the past, and neither it is that we shall not exist in the future." So this is past, present, future. Tri-kāla-jñā. So we are not going to the temple?

Śrī Govinda: Oh, yes. (break)

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: "With mind attached to Me." This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to keep the mind attached to Kṛṣṇa. That is success. That yoga we are practicing, how to keep the mind attached to Kṛṣṇa. Then it is successful. Our mind is attached to something. Without attachment, mind cannot be free even for a moment. So the bhakti-yoga means how to transfer the attachment of mind to Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are working, you are rendering your service without any charges, without any profit—why? Because your mind has been attached to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise what business you have got to work for Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement without any remuneration? You are all American boys. You are qualified. You can earn thousands of dollars. But why you have given up? Because you are attached to Kṛṣṇa. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). You have found better attachment; therefore you given up. So that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are attached to so many nonsense things. When we wind up all these attachments and concentrate on Kṛṣṇa, then life is perfect. That is wanted. We are not going to sacrifice attachment. But we are trying to transfer the attachment from matter to Kṛṣṇa. Then our life is successful. But that attachment is very rare.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

(BG 7.3)

So our business is, spiritual master's business is, how to help the disciple to transfer the attachment. It is not that we are creating an, it, artificially, no. The attachment quality is there. But it is being mixed up with material things. And if you purify this material contamination, then the attachment become pure, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like the water falls from the sky. It is distilled water.

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: But that is your lack of knowledge. I have already explained that, that yogurt is not different from milk. It is milk but still, it is not milk. You have to understand like that. Lord Śiva is not different from Viṣṇu, but he's still not Viṣṇu.

Indian man (7): No, but do we offer the prayer first to Śiva...?

Prabhupāda: That you do. There is no harm. Lord Śiva is also called Mahādeva. Amongst the demigods, he is the chief. So if you worship Lord Śiva... We also worship Śiva. It is not that we disrespect Śiva. We offer our utmost respect to Lord Śiva. But that does not mean that he is the Supreme Lord.

Indian man (7): The difference that is there, Swamijī...

Prabhupāda: Difference I have already explained. You cannot understand?

Indian man (7): No, no, we pray Śiva first and then we go to pray Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: So that you do. There is no harm. There is no harm. But you should understand what is Śiva and what is Viṣṇu. If you offer first prayer to Lord Śiva, there is no harm. It is good. He is... Vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ. He is our spiritual master. He is Vaiṣṇava. Why not offer first respect to him? But if you take Lord Śiva as the Supreme, that is insult. You are giving me respect as spiritual master, but if you give me overestimation, that "You are the king of the whole world," that is insult. That is insult. That is not prayer. If you offer me prayer as I am befitting, then it is all right. But if you give me prayer for which I am not befitting, that is insult. That is insult. So you must know what is the position of... Lord Śiva is Vaiṣṇava. He is the greatest devotee. He is the number-one demigod, and everything is all right. But if you say that he is the Supreme, then he will feel insulted, that "What is this nonsense saying?" So don't insult him in that way. That will go against your credit. He doesn't like that.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my point. That is my point.

Prof. Olivier: This is the point that he's trying to make, that we have not been able to absorb into scientific studies those spiritual components which go up to make the whole of man. And I would agree. I think it's one of the great shortcomings in our modern educational system, that we... Not that we do not accept this. I think basically, as an intrastructure, we accept this. But it's like a house. When you look at all the superstructures you do not inquire too deeply about the foundations of that superstructure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much. (chuckles)

Prof. Olivier: And now your point is that the time has come for society and the world to find out if there are cracks in the superstructure. Whether these cracks are just superficial cracks or whether they are caused by foundational cracks or shifts in the corners of the foundational structure. And I, like you, I believe that this is not entirely a question of... Well, it's certainly not a question of whether it's Hinduism or Christian or Islam.

Prabhupāda: It is the foundation.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa has sent him. Let him come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We shouldn't delay. If we... This is a little pamphlet. If we issue a counter-pamphlet, it's not... I don't think it's such an important thing. The thing to do is to do something...

Prabhupāda: Yes, practical.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...so significant that this becomes useless. Not that we issue another thing of this nature.

Harikeśa: This is already useless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I mean, what is the use of issuing another piece of paper against this paper? Let us make a skyscraper temple; then they can think what will be the comparison between this...

Bhavānanda: On every level. Even the people this invitation was issued to. But they come, and when they come on Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura's appearance day, they all come down the road to here to visit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really.

Bhavānanda: Even he gives off so much energy inviting this one and that one, they all come. They all want to come down the road. They at least come down for darśana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They do?

Meeting with Bankers -- April 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I'll recite another very nice story...(break)

Indian (2): (Hindi—about opening a branch of the bank)

Indian (3): (Hindi)

Indian (1): There seem to be little misunderstanding, not that we are short of any space or any accommodation or anything for which we can't open, but there's a little technical thing that bank license does not permit, and we are immediately taking or mending the license, and as soon as it is, we'll start. We have no problem of this.

Guru dāsa: Prabhupāda, did you want to tell another story?

Indian (1): But I had only two. I won't be able to...

Prabhupāda: (laughter) The story is that one poor man was informed by his friend that "Money draws money." That's a fact. If you have got money, you can draw money. So he went to the bank, and the cashier was counting huge amount of money, and he threw his coin on the cash..., (laughs) and he was waiting: "When the whole money will come to me?" Then the cashier saw this man is standing: "What is the...? Why you are standing?" "Sir, I heard that money draws money, so I had one coin. I have dropped with your money. I am waiting when it will come to me." So he said, "No, no. The fact is that, money draws.... Now my money has drawn your money." (laughter) So.... (Hindi)

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You cannot expect that everyone should be M.A., Ph.D. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is like that. It is not meant for ordinary persons. Those who are very intelligent, they can understand it. Ordinary men, they cannot understand even that he's not this body. What he will understand about Kṛṣṇa? Therefore the beginning understanding is that "I am not this body." When you are firmly convinced about this science that you are not this body, then Kṛṣṇa consciousness beginning.

Brian Singer: And it's not necessary to live a temple life.

Prabhupāda: No, temple life is a.... Just like if you go to school.... Without school you can be educated. It is not that we..., unless you go to school you can be educated. But if you go to school you get greater facilities. And that is the way. Just like in our country Rabindranath Tagore, he never went to school. You have heard the name of Rabindranath Tagore?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Rabindranath Tagore.

Prabhupāda: Tagore.

Devotee (2): He's a famous Indian poet.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No, no culture. There is no culture. There is no standard social life. Simply hodgepodge. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only hope to bring everything in proper order. Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. So America is the leading nation of the world. If you work on the principle of Bhagavad-gītā and train up your people, it will be ideal state and example for the whole world. At least a certain section of the American population should be ideal. That will also do. Not that..., we cannot expect cent percent will take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not needed. But if there is one section of the people ideal, that will be followed. We want to create that section, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Stansky: May I pose a question, Your Grace? It's less than two weeks that I'm asking you for the second time to instruct me. You gave me some very general instructions in my last audience, and I'm very grateful. Many things have transpired since then. I'm now here in Detroit; we'll be going on to Toronto very shortly. From Toronto to Chicago, and then I'm not sure what the agenda is. I'm tremendously pleased because it's giving me an opportunity to work in the area that you said I should be working in. In addition to which I have ample time to study. And I have the assistance of Satsvarūpa with my studies. Now I have a question. I would like to keep a log of my daily activities and start preparing an outline of a book. Now the book very basically won't.... I won't be starting on the book for at least a year, but I would like to start keeping a log.

Prabhupāda: You can keep record.

Stansky: Yes. Now the reason I would like to keep a log and prepare an outline and start a book, say a year from now, it would show a transition from Roman priesthood to Hare Kṛṣṇa devotee. I think this would open up the door to all of the colleges and universities across the country.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Where is that independence? With his family he can come and take food. What is wrong there? We say that we should not..., we are not simply supplying food. Anyone who is coming, he is getting spiritual education. Not that it is a free hotel. No. It is not that. We give them spiritual education. You come here, you take your shelter, you take your food and learn how to be first-class man. That is our program. Don't be implicated in sinful activities. Be God conscious and live here with us comfortably, take your food. We have got this nice palace.

Kern: Doctor, do you recruit people to come?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are inviting everyone come. We have no such distinction.

Kern: I have four young alcoholics I'd like to send over.

Prabhupāda: No, these boys and girls are not imported from India, recruited. They are recruited here. I came alone. They are all recruited. I have got so many centers all over the world. They are simply recruited.

Scheverman: Your asceticism, your way of life, your training program, having its Eastern origins, has a great appeal, I think, for many young people.

Prabhupāda: It is not Eastern, Western. It is the life. Just like to become peaceful, is it Eastern or Western? Peaceful is peaceful. Why do you bring Eastern?

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: They may think... They are rascals, they cannot think anything. We haven't got to reply all of them. Because they are rascals. They can talk all nonsense. We haven't got to take care of... Just like a child, he's talking so many foolish things. Sometimes we reply, "Yes, yes, we know." But we don't take seriously anything, anything spoken by a child. So these rascals may go on talking so many things, but we haven't got to take care of all of them. We have to do our own business. Let the dog bark on, the caravan will pass. So not that we have to take care of the barking of the dog always. That is not...

Dhṛṣṭadyumna:

dvau bhūta-sargau loke 'smin

daiva āsura eva ca

daivo vistaraśaḥ prokta

āsuraṁ pārtha me śṛṇu

(BG 16.6)

"O son of Pṛthā, in this world there are two kinds of created beings. One is called the divine and the other demoniac. I have already explained to you at length the divine qualities. Now hear from Me of the demoniac." (purport) "Lord Kṛṣṇa, having assured Arjuna that he was born with the divine qualities, is now describing the demoniac way. The conditioned living entities are divided into two classes in this world. Those who are born with divine qualities follow a regulated life; that is to say they abide by the injunctions in scriptures and by the authorities. One should perform duties in the light of authoritative scripture. This mentality is called divine. One who does not follow the regulative principles as they are laid down in the scriptures and who acts according to his whims is called demoniac, or asuric. There is no other criterion but obedience to the regulative principles of scriptures. It is mentioned in Vedic literature that both the demigods and the demons are born of the Prajapati; the only difference is that one class obeys the Vedic injunctions and the other does not."

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: We are to take the Vedic injunction axiomatic.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So how do we, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we're talking about all these things, this time, and we just give our time scale from Brahmā, that's perfectly, that is on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Rūpānuga: We know from Bhāgavatam, it tells what creations went on during these periods, we can show the real creation of the universe, not that we care about their ideas. But these different Manus, there were different species created. Like Dakṣa recreated a time. From one Manu to the next the species were recreated again by him, we can show that in this chart.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But one problem that we're going to encounter, always though, this will come up, they will bring up this thing.

Rūpānuga: We just say your time starts only not long enough ago and ours goes back to the beginning of the day. We can criticize them that theirs does not go back far enough. What else can we say?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We will fight.

Hari-śauri: You made a good point yesterday when you were seeing the slideshow that how can they possibly calculate a time like two million years or two billion years when they only live fifty or sixty years themselves? How can they possibly come up with a calculation like that?

Rūpānuga: To verify, scientific, they cannot measure it. But our information comes from persons who were living at those times. They lived, historical persons. We don't need some modern man who lives fifty years to tell us what happened fifty million years ago. We know someone who was there. That is our advantage.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Sense gratification is never helpful. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that kāmasya nendriya-prītir (SB 1.2.10). Sense gratification is required as far as..., as little as possible. Otherwise, not for sense gratification. Just like sleeping. Sleeping is required because this material body requires some rest. But not that we shall sleep twenty-four hours or twenty hours and enjoy, as in this country sometimes they enjoy sleeping. But sleeping is wasting time. So long we shall sleep we cannot do anything good work. Therefore it should be minimized. You cannot avoid sleeping altogether. That is not possible. But it should be accepted to the minimum extent. That is not possible. But it should be accepted to the minimum extent. That is called tapasya, or advancement of spiritual life. Eating, sleeping, sex and defense. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. They're required. So long we have got this body, we require to eat something, we require to sleep sometimes, we require a little sense gratification, and we require defense. But it should be minimized, not increased. That is tapasya. In the human life this is possible, this is possible. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. One can conquer over these things, by practice. The more we minimize this āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna, this means we are advanced in spiritual taste.(?) It is practiced. My, my personal life, I don't sleep at night. And nowadays, at most, one hour. Yes. But I take rest in the daytime, at least two to three hours. So it is not that I am sleeping one hour. I sleep three to four hours total. But if practiced, it can be reduced, practiced. We see in the life of Gosvāmīs. About them, it is said: nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. They conquered over sleeping, eating. If we conquer over eating, then we can conquer over sleeping and other things also. If we can control over this tongue, then we can control over the other senses very easily. That is a fact. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung, tar madhye jihvā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati, tā 'ke jetā koṭhina saṁsāre. Of all our senses the tongue is very, very prominent.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is success. If we learn our failure and try to rectify it, that is (indistinct).

Devotee (3): I asked Prabhupāda the other day, because Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, "Forget the past, it sleeps and never the future dream at all. Live with times that are of thee, and progress thee shall call." So I asked Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it possible to forget the past? Śrīla Prabhupāda said, "No, that would not be possible, but we can think like this, that 'I have done so many foolish things,' and rectify it. Not that we should remain fools. Then what would be the value of our experience? Just like a child, he can put his finger in the fan and it hurts. So then he learns not to do it again. But if he's so dull-headed that again and again he puts his finger in the fan... Basically our experience from the material world should be duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). That the material world is simply a place of misery. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhī-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). That we should perceive the miseries of birth and death, disease and old age. That should be our experience in the material world. From this we should aspire for real happiness. (indistinct)

Devotee: So this... It explains also in the Nectar of Instruction that the man who may see others stealing and see others also put in jail and punished for stealing, he may have been caught himself and punished for stealing but yet he goes out and steals again. That this (indistinct) again and again. Is this a symptom of the cause (indistinct)?

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, one thing is, research means again that mental speculation.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But our research is different though.

Prabhupāda: So they have... People will understand that it is another type of mental speculation. But ours is not that. We take it as Absolute Truth. So how to convince them?

Rūpānuga: We were not going to advertise ourselves as a research institute.

Prabhupāda: Research means that it is not known; you are trying to find out. But our, Kṛṣṇa's position is not. It is already known.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And another aspect of the Institute at the beginning phase is that Your Divine Grace also instructed a few days ago that we also get some, try to give some lectures to colleges. We can present as members from the Bhaktivedanta Institute, the higher learning section of ISKCON. That can also be part of the... So we can go to colleges and universities. We don't have to go every month or so, but maybe once a month or twice a month.

Prabhupāda: Whenever there is opportunity.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but we can represent from...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also sin. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that whatever you eat, bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). Anyone is cooking something, meat or vegetables, for his own eating, he is eating only sin. It is not that the vegetarians are not sinful and the meat-eaters are sinful. Everyone is sinful if it is not cooked for Kṛṣṇa. It is not that we are propagating that you become vegetarian. We are propagating that you become Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our propaganda. But because we are trying to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, we offer something to Kṛṣṇa. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So not patraṁ puṣpam, whatever within this group available, fruits, flowers, grains, milk, so we offer to Kṛṣṇa. Yajña. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). If you do not perform yajña, then you will be bound up by the resultant action. So this is yajña, to offer to Kṛṣṇa. Yajña means to satisfy Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-ārādhyate. Yajña means satisfy Kṛṣṇa. But if you don't Kṛṣṇa's prasādam, then you are sinful. Not that if you become vegetarian, then you are not sinful. Not that. Because you have to eat something. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. Either you eat vegetable or meat, you have to eat something. So somebody prefers eating animals, and somebody prefers eating vegetables, but all of them have got life. Therefore you cannot kill any life. So if you eat for yourself, then you are simply eating sin. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt. But if you take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, then if there is any sin, it goes to Kṛṣṇa, you take pure prasādam. And Kṛṣṇa is apāpa-vidham. So our duty is to worship Kṛṣṇa and offer Him so many nice things—fruits, flowers, grains, milk, milk preparation. We are doing that. You are taking prasādam. So that is our business. Is it clear, your answer?

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: We don't tithe our members. In other words, our congregations do not pay dues. We are depending on Kṛṣṇa. We're simply trying to print books, and we show them to people, and then Kṛṣṇa inspires them to purchase or give a contribution. It's not that we have people making large contributions or a congregation that pays dues.

Interviewer: So where does most of your money come from?

Rāmeśvara: She wants to know where most of our money comes from.

Prabhupāda: Money comes from Kṛṣṇa.

Interviewer: From where?

Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa.

Interviewer: Ah, Rāmeśvara, maybe if Prabhupāda just told how, in the first year how the books were sold, before there was this publishing. There was a time in which there was just a storefront. How were these books sold in the very beginning?

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda personally went to the printer in Japan. He personally made the arrangement with the printer, the first printing.

Interviewer: But how did he sell his first book in America?

Hari-śauri: On the boat to the ship's captain.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda said one of the standards of education is to see all living entities equally. So not that we say that an animal has no soul, therefore he can go to the slaughterhouse, but a man has soul, so he cannot. Because we see all living entities equally, so we do not send man to slaughterhouse, and we do not send animals to slaughterhouse. That is education.

Interviewer: What... In your system, what do you propose to do with criminals?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What do you propose to do with criminals in your educational system? How will you reform them?

Prabhupāda: Criminals should be punished.

Interviewer: Punished?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: How so?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How seriously should they be punished?

Prabhupāda: That you have to consult śāstra. There is direction. It is... Practically it is the same. Just like Manu-saṁhitā, it says that if one is a murderer then he should be killed. Life for life. He should be hanged. That is the old system. The king used to kill a murderer. So that is almost the same punishment.

Rāmeśvara: What Prabhupāda said is that you have to consult the ancient law books which were written, which are part of Indian culture, thousands of years ago.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Part of the Vedic scriptures.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: It's not that we sit back and wait for Kṛṣṇa to send it to us.

Rāmeśvara: No, we're very industrious.

Prabhupāda: We don't sit down idly.

Bali-mardana: God helps those who help themselves.

Prabhupāda: We are not idle preachers, we are working. All, very hard, more than the karmīs.

Rāmeśvara: These men, they go out to engage people in taking our books maybe twelve hours a day sometimes, ten hours a day, without any salary.

Prabhupāda: I am now eighty years old, I am working twenty-four hours. I think I work more than my young disciples (laughter).

Bali-mardana: Oh yes, definitely.

Prabhupāda: I work at night.

Rāmeśvara: It is hard to keep up with Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Hari-śauri: Very difficult.

Prabhupāda: We are not idle creatures.

Rāmeśvara: We are publishing his books and sometimes he is ahead of us by seventeen volumes.

Interviewer: How do you spend your days? You do an awful lot of traveling I understand.

Prabhupāda: Traveling is going on throughout the whole world and wherever I go, at night I write books.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: At the present moment we are giving up one material body and accepting another material body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). This is our conditional life, but we are kept in such dense darkness of knowledge that we are thinking that "We are free. We can do whatever we like." This is very dangerous civilization—no knowledge of the spiritual life, no knowledge how the soul is transmigrating from one body to another, no knowledge what is the future, no knowledge what is the goal of life. Simply like cats and dogs, you dance, eat, drink, be merry and die, that's all. This is not good life. You must be very serious, especially those who are Indians. They should take it very seriously. Because this Kṛṣṇa culture, Bhagavad-gītā, was spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra in India, and we Indians, we do not take full advantage of this great transcendental knowledge, then you are committing suicide. So my request is, all the Indians who are here in this foreign country, keep your own original culture. Don't forget. Don't be bewildered. Be in your position. Try to under... It is very easy. Bhagavad-gītā is not at all difficult to understand, and we have tried to explain as easy as possible, not that we have deviated from the original verse, just like others do it. We do not do that; there is no need. That is another blunder. We keep Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and we still try to explain it. So I am very glad that you are all coming regularly, but take it. At least one day, this Sunday, you devote, seriously studying Bhagavad-gītā, and discuss amongst you whenever there is any doubt. There cannot be any doubt. The Bhagavad-gītā verses are so plainly explained, and... Just like here is one verse. We are trying to read. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: "My dear Arjuna..." Arjuna is addressed as Bhārata. Because he belongs to the dynasty of Bharata, sometimes he's addressed as Bhārata. So, very easy, that "I am also one of the souls. There are two souls. One, you are, and another, I am. So what is the difference between you and me?"

Arrival Speech -- July 28, 1976, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Kṣetra-jñākhya tathā para. Avidyā karma saṅgaḥ anya tṛtiya śaktir iśyate. Viṣṇu-śakti, Viṣṇu, the supreme controller, all-pervading Godhead, Viṣṇu, He and His potency, viṣṇu-śakti parā proktaḥ, both of them are transcendental. (someone translates into French throughout) So the Viṣṇu-śakti potency is one. Another reflection of the Viṣṇu-śakti is karma-saṅga anya, that is, you have to work. That is called tṛtiya, the third, karma-saṅga, where you have to work. The idea is that original Viṣṇu potency, you haven't got to work. Everything is supplied automatically. And the avidyā karma-saṅga anya, and the other reflection or perverted reflection, is this material world. Just like you have recited this verse, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). In the spiritual world the trees are desire tree—means whatever we want, we can get—whereas in this material world, trees are not like that, they are limited potency. The cows there, unlimited potency. Surabhī means you can milk out as many times as you like, and as much as you like. So the idea is the spiritual world means there is no need of endeavoring for getting anything; everything is there automatically. And the material world, we have got experience, for everything we have to work so hard, then we can get something. So actually this material world is perverted reflection. Just like this body, without the spirit soul, it is useless; similarly, this material world, even if there is no spiritual touch, it is useless. So the more you spiritualize the whole atmosphere, the more you become sufficient and happy. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for that purpose. People cannot understand it. They think that "These people are not working, simply chanting and dancing and eating." But that is our business. (laughter) Without working, we can have everything sufficiently. So stick to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are already advanced. That is my request. Don't deviate. You'll have never any want. That's a fact. It is not my invention, it is the statement of Kṛṣṇa. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Nityabhiyukta, those who are constantly engaged in Kṛṣṇa business, whatever they want, Kṛṣṇa is personally interested to supply it. So without any hesitation, stick to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everything will be amply supplied. Whatever you need, that will be supplied, and whatever you have got already, that will be given protection. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Not that we shall be indolent and lazy. No. We shall utilize our energy for giving service to Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Yogeśvara: ...some group doctors? Some portion of the devotees medical knowledge?

Prabhupāda: There is no harm, but when medical men are available by paying something, why should you waste your time? There are so many things we purchase, you pay for them. Not that we have to learn everything. So many things we have to do. Does it mean that you have to learn everything?

Hari-śauri: There's lots of doctors, but there's no brāhmaṇas, devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the principle is, don't waste time. If one has already learned medical science, all right, bring him to some service. But not that our men have to go to the medical college to learn medical science. That is not the point.

Jyotirmāyī: So because we're in the country, I was taking the children in the land here and teaching them how to recognize the different plants. Is that useful, or should I not do that?

Prabhupāda: Different plants?

Jyotirmāyī: Plants, yes, here we have so many different plants growing, some medical plants, some that can be eaten. Is there any use?

Prabhupāda: No. Different plants, that is botanical study, that has also no utilization. But you can teach them, "Just see, this plant is coming from earth. The earth is the mother of this plant." These things you can convince them. Is it not a fact? The grass is coming, the tree is coming, and the animal eating grass. Then the animal is coming. The man is eating food grains, then man is coming. So originally the earth is the mother, feeding everyone. Is there any denial? What do you think? So earth is the mother of all living entities, convince them. So all living entities are children. Mother earth is the mother. The father? Where is father, find out. Everyone has got idea, father, mother and children. Children are there. The mother is there. Where is the father? If somebody says "I have not seen father; how can I recognize father?" that does not mean... Because the mother is there, because the children are there, there must be father. If you do not know, try to know it from your mother, from your superior. From Veda-mātā. You have to know from the Vedas.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Every one of us, we are attached to the body, and on account of being attached to the body the material activities are going on. These motorcars are running, karmīs are going here and there, what is the purpose? To maintain the road? Divasa śarīra-sāje. Miche nida-baśe gelo re rāti divasa śarīra-sāje. The body is given rest at night to revive, and daytime the activities for the matter of maintaining the body. But despite my all endeavor to maintain this body, it will not stay. It will give up my company and I'll have to accept another. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So Bali Mahārāja says "What is the use of such endeavor?" Therefore big, big saintly persons, they do not care for the body. Lie down anywhere. But they are very serious about spiritual advancement. And people in general, they are interested in maintaining the body. It is not that we should be neglectful to the body. That example is also there. Just like we require fruits and flowers. So if we neglect the tree, there will be no fruits and flower. If we cut the tree, it will dry up and there will be no fruits and flowers. The fruits and flowers, this human body, the fruits and flowers mean self-realization. Bali Mahārāja analyzes the family. He says family means rogues and thieves. Whatever you want, they'll take away. The pickpocket takes from your pocket and he becomes a criminal, and when the wife takes thousand dollars from your pocket, you do not consider her to be criminal. You laugh, "Oh, you have taken the money?" "Yes, I've taken." The business is a pickpocket. But in one case we say "criminal," and one case we say "friend." The business is the same. Svajanākhya-dasyu. Actually thieves and rogues, but we have named them "relatives."

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, very good. Then is bigger than you. Very good. There is a verse in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, siddhānta baliyā citte nā kara alasa ihā ha-ite kṛṣṇe (CC Adi 2.117). To know, we have got limited knowledge, we cannot understand full what is God, but still we must try to understand what is God. This is the general definition of God. Suppose you take one item, God is rich, richest. Try to understand how He is richest, what is the topmost idea of all richness. Whether God possesses that richness. He possesses, but we do not understand. In this way we have to study, and all the saintly person have studied Kṛṣṇa, about these six things. They have analyzed the characters and symptoms and they have found īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Not blindly, but studying thoroughly about these qualities of God, they have decided īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So you have to study God. Not that we accept God anybody and anything, no. Siddhānta baliyā citte nā kara alasa. Don't be lazy to understand God. The more you understand, the more you become a devotee.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He says, "I am very anxious to become a good devotee."

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can become, everyone can become. The more the dirty things within the heart is cleansed, more one becomes a devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167). You have to make zero all dirty desires. Then it is pure.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So it's much better... If devotees are in charge, then the karmīs can work for us and they can become devotees. But if the karmīs are in charge...

Prabhupāda: We are. Our society, it is not that we are simply sannyāsīs. We have got brahmacārīs, we have got gṛhasthas. So gṛhasthas should be provided with some profession, business, so that they can earn very nicely. That is good idea.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He has so much propensity to become engaged in these things, I have the propensity, all the devotees have the propensity. We can...

Prabhupāda: So you make your formula, I mean to say, plan and scheme. So far how to do it, that instruction I give.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Now in this house you will see, this house, the plan is that the house, the first floor will be kitchen, restaurant and a store. A little section for store. Store will have Your Divine Grace's books, records, tapes, japa-mālā and some sweets, prasādam that is made to go, to sell.

Prabhupāda: Who made sandeśa? It was very nice.

Hari-śauri: Nava-yauvana's wife, Mañjarī.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, she can make sandeśa. And some of these products also can be stocked there. Once we start and it is successful, then we can grow.

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Harikeśa: No, I mean I know. I've been there. But that one man who's there now...

Prabhupāda: So four men cannot live in that room?

Harikeśa: Three men not possible. Because they've got two beds in there. Two of these big huge...

Prabhupāda: At least you provide them two men there and one man with brahmacārīs. That's all. Not that we can spare so many rooms.

Harikeśa: If I ask that man who's already there to go to the brahmacārīs, he may become offended.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you do that. He can go to the brahmacārīs. That's all.

Devotee: You can give him one of those sannyāsī rooms in the brahmacārīs.

Harikeśa: All right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Arrange everything. But don't turn this, and very easily give the other guest room. Then it will be awkward like anything. Very cautious. So this is the program I am giving, and if you can give some practical sense, it will be very nice profitable business.

Dhanañjaya: Yes. But it will require some capital in the beginning.

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So capital required we can give. There is no scarcity of capital. But it must be consulted between three-Gopāla, Viśvambhara, and yourself. And then if capital is required, how capital you will repay. Make them assured. I shall give you. There is no difficulty. Capital you will have, provided you can make profit. Not that we give capital and never return. That will not be possible. Take any amount of capital, but we must be paid interest as bank gives loan. I can say bank will give you. If I order the bank, bank will give you. So capital there is no question. The question is how you shall utilize it. How you shall make profit. Capital, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, you can take lakhs and lakhs. That I can arrange. The bank, if I say to the bank they will have to give you, or I shall personally give you. There is no question of capital scarcity. So only thing is how will you utilize this capital and how you will make profit. You make that program. So far capital is concerned, there is no concern. You'll get any amount of capital. And you can develop the business. Now we have got credit in the bank, any bank will give you if I say yes. There will be no scarcity of capital.

Prabhupāda: In Aligarh he has got so many friends. Aligarh we have got many friends.

Indian man: Half of my life was spent in Aligarh. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: Aligarh is maternal uncle's house. So many relatives. So Aligarh, if the Deities are manufactured there, so there is no (indistinct) Money I shall bring. (indistinct) We shall bring any amount of money provided I am sure that you will make some profit. There is no scarcity.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Impersonal Brahman is resting on the personal God, exactly that illumination of light is resting on the bulb. Not that the bulb is resting on the illuminated light.

Pradyumna: Exactly like illumination of light is resting...

Prabhupāda: On the bulb, electric bulb. Not the bulb is resting on the illumination. Besides that, we learn from Bhagavad-gītā, Second Chapter... Find out that verse. "It is not that we were..."

Pradyumna: Na tv evāham?

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Pradyumna:

na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsaṁ

na tvaṁ neme janādhipāḥ

na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ

sarve vayam ataḥ param

"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings, nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa has personally said to Arjuna that in the past he was person.

Pradyumna: So "Kṛṣṇa, in person"?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes. Kṛṣṇa, as a person, says to Arjuna that both of them existed in the past as person, and they'll continue to remain person in the future.

Room Conversation -- September 26, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So nobody knows what is being done or... (break) So one was to control horses. So he became very much anxious, "What kind of whip I shall have to keep?"

Haṁsadūta: First he has to get a horse.

Prabhupāda: "Then, first of all, rascal, where is your horse?" (laughs) He became very much anxious, "What kind of whip?"

Haṁsadūta: O.K. I'll get the horses.

Prabhupāda: And anyone who can purchase a horse, he can very easily purchase any whip. Not that we shall be very much anxious for the whip first. First of all, let us have a horse. The difficulty is that no horses coming. That is the difficulty. Attract horse, and you'll find so many.

Haṁsadūta: O.K. (end)

Room Conversation -- December 7, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So go. Go.

Mahāṁśa: So if you want, we could get one bus and few devotees can go on that.

Haṁsadūta: But where is this place?

Mahāṁśa: Kathinagar. It's in Andhra Pradesh, Visakhapatnam near Waisac.

Haṁsadūta: You have to make a program that on the way... Not that we drive one thousand miles to go to one program. That's not practical. Every fifty miles or so there should be some program.

Mahāṁśa: That's what I mean. That whole course is... Andhra course is the richest area in Andhra Pradesh.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, like that.

Mahāṁśa: They give very nicely. We have had programs there, Prabhupāda, since three years. We've collected lakhs of rupees from there and thousands of books have been distributed there.

Prabhupāda: This I have heard even.

Mahāṁśa: You have heard, yeah.

Prabhupāda: So go there. What is the...? Make this.

Mahāṁśa: They can start today? The boys are ready. They want to move but it's just the leaders which have not decided on getting it done.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Our case is not that we are going to convert one Hindu to Christian, or Christian to Hindu. There is no meaning. Our is, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Even if you are Hindu, even you are Muslim, you are Christian, kick it out. That is our movement. We do not advocate that "You are Christian, you become Hindu." Or "You are Hindu, you become..." They are taking like that. But our movement is not that.

Guest (4): That's what I say.

Prabhupāda: Our movement is, either you are Hindu, either you are Muslim, either you are Christian, you kick out all this. Sarva-dharmān parityajya. Simply you become surrendered to Kṛṣṇa or God. This is our... And anyone who can do that, he is first-class religious. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Adhokṣaja, God's name is Adhokṣaja. You cannot see Him beyond your material perception. So if you are trained up to surrender to God, then you are religious. We do not say that you become Hindu or Muslim or Christian or this or that. We do not say so.

Dr. Patel: But all Christians, if they truly are... I mean Hindus, that Christ...

Prabhupāda: No, either he become Hindus. That does not mean the Hindus are perfect. We do not mean that. Even if he becomes Hindu, what is the benefit? No benefit.

Dr. Patel: No. Even he becomes a Christian, there is no benefit.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, we are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. So if I say that Kṛṣṇa says like this and it is a fact, then what is our fault? But they are taking very serious, just like especially nowadays in Western country they are opposing that "This philosophy is a brainwash." So this is our position. Satyaṁ brūyāt priyaṁ brūyāt mā brūyāt satyam apriyam.(?) The world situation is that you can speak truth if it is palatable. And if it is unpalatable, don't speak. But this thing cannot be maintained when you are preaching spiritual life. There we cannot cheat. Spiritual life must be declared very frankly. Not that we have to declare; it is already declared. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The spirit soul is within this body. The body is different from the spirit soul, and as it is changing—the body is changing—similarly, after death, so-called death... Because spirit has no death, no birth. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this knowledge is the beginning of spiritual life. And if you are preaching, they are opposing us. India also opposing. This is our position. They take Bhagavad-gītā and they mislead them. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our fault. So what we can do. Can you suggest?

CID Chief: (laughs) I am a layman. What...?

Prabhupāda: No... You should be very kind upon... And what we can do? And if I cheat in the name of Bhagavad-gītā, then I become a great leader.

CID Chief: All nation has turned... An extraordinary order, you spreading the message of Kṛṣṇa to the world, message of Bhagavad-gītā.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is the whole scheme of Kurukṣetra fight—"Wipe out these rascals." Kṛṣṇa was not interested to rule over, but He took the guidance—"Yes, I'll guide you." That's all. What Kṛṣṇa will do with the kingdom? Rāmacandra, He finished Rāvaṇa's whole family, but He has no interest to rule over the... He installed Vibhīṣaṇa—"You rule over." That's all. Why Kṛṣṇa should be interested in this ruling? He's the ruler of the whole situation.

Rāmeśvara: But it helps all the citizens if the devotees are ruling the kingdom.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is wanted. Therefore, if we become strong, we shall take over charge of government. It is not that we are entering into politics. We must! That is also one of the items of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People are misguided. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ. They are being induced to remain in ignorance. Therefore we want, make our plan. Śoce: "I am thinking very seriously how to save them." Prahlāda Mahārāja says. That is Vaiṣṇava's business. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhi. "They are suffering." That is Vaiṣṇava, real Vaiṣṇava, not that "Now I am realized soul, sit down and..." That is also good, but better business is to think for others. That is stated in the Bhāgavatam. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣu... (Bg 18.68), na ca tasmād. If you want to be really very dear to Kṛṣṇa, you must preach this philosophy vigorously, not that "I have got it. Who is going to take so much botheration? Let me sit down." Kṛṣṇa... Who can be better devotee than Arjuna? And why did he... He was, rather, avoiding the botheration. Kṛṣṇa said, "No. You must take the botheration." He chastised him, kutas tva kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame. "Rascal, what is this? You must take. You have to take this botheration." On this principle, at the age of seventy years, I took all the botheration—"All right." The other friends were thinking that "This man is going to die, and he is going to preach." (laughing) They said like that. And "All right. I shall die, I shall die for Kṛṣṇa's cause." So we have to face so many problems, botherations. That is natural. We should not be afraid of this.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: (break) ... and European temples, Deity worship, kīrtana. It will go on increasing, more and more centers. And make such a policy-pickpocket $250 and give them books. $250 for an American is nothing. Is it not?

Hari-śauri: Not very much.

Prabhupāda: Not at all! Any common man can pay $250-once. Not that we are getting every month or every few year. Once 250 even ordinary worker can pay.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They do like that with those sets of books.

Satsvarūpa: They don't have to pay all at once.

Hari-śauri: Most things are done in America are on credit.

Satsvarūpa: "Book of the Month Club," they have. Very popular.

Prabhupāda: So you... We have to organize like that. And actually this is greater valuable for their life, changing life.

Hari-śauri: Yes. These book clubs are very big.

Prabhupāda: So now you all GBC make a plan how to introduce the books in every home. The same policy in other languages also. America is English language. Similarly, we can do here also in Hindi language, in Oriya language, or in Europe. So we have got much work ahead. Don't think our business is finished. No. Simply very intelligent we have to do it.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Dependency, that is... We are practiced. Suppose you have given this motorcar, but it doesn't mean that if there is no motorcar my Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be checked. If there is little facility, we can take it. That is another thing. But it is not that because there is no motorcar, then there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not like that. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be checked by any impediment. That cannot be checked. So we are not dependent. But to make the best use of a bad bargain. If we get some facility, why we should not take? We are not so fool. If I get a motorcar to go somewhere, why shall I walk? That is another foolishness. But we are not dependent on the motor... "Because there is no motorcar, therefore my Kṛṣṇa consciousness stopped." We are not such fools. The motorcar is available; all right, take advantage of it. We don't decline to accept whatever little material facilities are there. That is not foolish... That is foolishness. We can take advantage. But our main business is how to make advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that we are suffering in this material world, and because we have got this motorcar, therefore our suffering is now ended. We are not so fool. We can take advantage of the motorcar, but we don't take that this is the solution. We are not so fool. But these rascals, they are taking, "This is the solution." That is not possible. That is called durāśaya. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are thinking that "Material adjustment, we shall be happy." That is durāśaya. It will never be fulfilled. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know. Unless we go back home, back to Godhead, there is no solution. This is not solution. This is durāśaya. Everything is described. Durāśaya means the hope which will never be successful. So these rascals, they are trying to be happy by so-called scientific advancement. That is durāśaya. That's not possible, hopeless.

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be trained up. And dviṣatsu, envious. Four division. So four divisions you have to treat in different ways. Prema, Lord, prema, love. Maitrī, friendship with devotees. Kṛpā bāliśu, those who are innocent, the kṛpā. Let them learn. And upekṣā. As soon as come to the dviṣat, no cooperation. Keep aloof. So when we try to keep aloof from the envious, that is not our enviousness. That is just to avoid trouble for preaching work. Not that we hate them. But because... When you avoid a snake, it does not mean I hate the snake, but because he is harmful we have to take precaution. This is the statement of Bhāgavatam. And when you are in the mahā-bhāgavata stage, first-grade, that time, paramahaṁsa, nobody's enemy, nobody's friend. Everyone... That we cannot imitate. It is not... Preacher, even if he's mahā-bhāgavata, he comes to the second stage. Just like Guru Mahārāja. He's mahā-bhāgavata, but still he had to come to the second stage. He had to take precaution. That is natural. There are so many enemies of...

Jayapatākā: We were remembering how Nitāi had been poisoned, Nitāi and Yogānanda are your disciples. They were recently poisoned.

Prabhupāda: Hm. By whom?

Hari-śauri: Nitāi.

Jayapatākā: By bad association. Nitāi?

Prabhupāda: Ah hah, ah, yes.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Why? Why revolution?

Hari-śauri: Because right now our only emphasis is just to simply produce brāhmaṇas.

Prabhupāda: So why you are taking "we"? Why not others? This is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. You are thinking of "we." That is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. It is not that "we." Na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu. You have to think for others also.

Satsvarūpa: But the people are not at our disposal to organize.

Hari-śauri: We are thinking of "we" because actually we only have our own society at the moment to organize.

Satsvarūpa: We cannot approach the masses to organize.

Hari-śauri: It can't be implemented on such a big scale.

Prabhupāda: I do not follow what you say.

Satsvarūpa: Just like...

Prabhupāda: Ideal. We are giving the ideal.

Satsvarūpa: But no one's listening and no one's taking it up except a few...

Prabhupāda: But you take. You show them.

Hari-śauri: That's why we say, "we."

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Example. Just like Bhavānanda, when there was no commode here. He was taking my stool and urine. Does it mean he is a sweeper? He's a sannyāsī Vaiṣṇava. Similarly, āpani ācari' jīve śikhāilā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "I am not a sannyāsī." But He took sannyāsa. Actually He is God, so what is the benefit of becoming a sannyāsī, for God? But He became that. (break) In order to serve the mass of people, to bring them to the ideal position, we should try to introduce this varṇāśrama, not that we are going to be candidates of varṇāśrama. It is not our business. But to teach them how the world will be in peaceful position we have to introduce. Now the days of wind will come from March.

Satsvarūpa: Winds begin?

Prabhupāda: And April this wind is...

Satsvarūpa: Winds begin now?

Bhavānanda: Yes. They'll start to come from the south. Vaikuṇṭha breezes.

Prabhupāda: Now here is a very nice institution for the benefit of the whole society human.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in our preaching in Bengal, many times we come to villages and the people are very sincere. They say that "We have our village, but we need someone here to guide us."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation First Day in Juhu Quarters -- March 30, 1977, Bombay:

Gargamuni: One section room was dictation, one section cooking, one section editing. So this is more on a grand style.

Prabhupāda: So actually my lift will be used once in a day. Then how it will be in order?

Saurabha: We will repair it. It's not that we will make it work and then no one will touch it.

Prabhupāda: And at the time of my use, if it is out of order?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe you should keep a man there all the time.

Gargamuni: Let's hire an operator. They have lift operators in many of the hotels.

Saurabha: See, they took the fuse out so that we can use it, so we put the fuse back, so the lift works, and then just before you came, someone went in there...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Practically the only people who will be here will be your servants and occasionally...

Prabhupāda: Nobody should use it. My men should know how to use it, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if you show me, then I'll keep the key.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He will learn and he will teach, that's all. You teach him. So Lokanātha Swami, your preaching last night was very nice. That chief minister spoke very nicely.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is no need of changing booking. We go there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, oh, we go, and we wait there.

Prabhupāda: Hm hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that's all right. I have no... I mean... My point is that the longer we have to book, the better. Not that we change ten days...

Prabhupāda: No. Booking should be accepted any day is available.

Kārttikeya: We'll wait there only.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's the best.

Kārttikeya: So if that is good, so when we can stay there?

Mr. Dwivedi: You reach there on the 6th. So that 7th morning will be... So Saturday you are at Gwalior, and then Sunday you'll be there. Evening program will start.

Prabhupāda: You book whichever date is just convenient. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, may I ask you a question?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Don't talk. Why you are talking? So our real trouble is that we have become conditioned by the material identification, "I am this body." Everyone is thinking, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am sannyāsī," everything, identification with the body. That is the dirty thing. So one has to purify, that "I am neither American, neither Indian, nor brāhmaṇa, or so many designations." Then it is called cleansing the heart. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is mukti, when you don't identify with this material body. And so long you identify with this material body, either you become a sannyāsī with some beard or a gṛhastha without some beard, the same thing, identifying with the body. So ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12) means to become free from the bodily designation. And śāstra says, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is composition of three dhātu, kapha, pitta, vāyu, according to Āyur Veda; and according to medical science, it is skin and then muscle, blood, bone, and marrow, stool, urine, those, combination. So I am not this combination of stool, bone, skin, blood. But people are taking that. When they are diseased, they take care of the body. Of course, it is not that we should not take care. But that is superficial. Real care should be taken of the soul within the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, dehī. Dehinaḥ and deha. So anyone who is identifying with this body in either... According to Vedic civilization, the bodily identification is divided into eight: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Varṇāśrama-dharma. So human civilization begins, according to Vedic understanding, when there is varṇāśrama system.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...in daytime, and four pounds flesh. Otherwise there will be vitamin, less vitamin. Or "Give them vitamins pills, this..." These... "Don't go to Yamunā. It is polluted."

Yaśodānandana: Even want to follow their textbook, follow their mundane textbook.

Prabhupāda: Keep this institution pure, not that we have to make it impure. Fighting, we want fighting. If we don't get, it will remain vacant, but we don't want to introduce impure. That should be a principle.

Yaśodānandana: Can all the children of the parents in our society send their children here?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?

Yaśodānandana: I was thinking we have many parents.

Prabhupāda: It is for them. It is for them, not for the outsiders.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And what will happen to the gurukula overseas? There are many gurukulas...

Prabhupāda: And if we can maintain, maintain them. But there the government says, "Make this like this. Make this like this. Make this like this."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why you made this gurukula.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Dallas gurukula was lost only for this purpose. They could not manage. Jagadīśa said the government was imposing this, that, this, that. Here you can do without...

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, that legal business?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Girirāja has gone into Mathurā to meet with Mr. Garg to just see that all of the drafts are in order, if everything is in order. Then hopefully tomorrow we can finish it all.

Prabhupāda: So it was argument, not that we have rejected. Upāyān cintayet prajñāḥ...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean the treatment? Yes, I have learned to take everything very philosophically, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean I took it that you were presenting the..., you know, presenting the whole picture to be considered.

Prabhupāda: I am now puzzled. Still, I am thinking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I thought it was very good what you said in the sense that it... It actually makes everything... It presents a more real picture. We should not be overly optimistic, neither should we be completely fatalistic.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And above all, our whole program here is completely transcendental. It's just like Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī said. Your consciousness is so sublime that it's just wonderful at every moment to be with you. I mean, although I wish that you were... We all wish that you were completely healthy, yet at the same time we have never experienced so much nice exchanges with you. I mean we all... Every moment is so relishable to be with you. So I mean, even this puzzlement is very transcendental. None of us see any of this in any kind of a mundane view. It's all due to your consciousness being so Kṛṣṇa conscious, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean to me this puzzlement is simply another proof of the existence of Kṛṣṇa, 'cause Kṛṣṇa certainly is not puzzled. It seems like everything is happening according to His plan.

Prabhupāda: Kīrtana may be stopped now.