Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Why do they not take consideration that "We are making so much improvement, what improvement we have done about these four things?" They have no. And still they're very much proud, advanced in education, science. But the four primary miserable conditions, they remain as they are. You see? There may be advancement in medical science, but there is no medicine which can claim "No more disease, come on." Is there any medicine? So what is that advancement? Rather, disease are increasing in different forms. They have invented nuclear weapon. What is that? To kill. But have you invented something so that no more men will die? That is credit. Man is dying every moment, so you have invented something to accelerate that death. That's all. Is that very, very good credit? So there is no solution of death. They are trying to stop the, I mean to say, overpopulation. But where is the solution? Every minute, there are three persons increasing. That is the statistics. So there is no solution for birth, there is no solution for death, there is no solution for disease and there is no solution for old age. There was a great scientist, Professor Einstein, he also died in old age. Why did he not stop to check old age? Everyone is trying to remain youthful. Where is that process? So they do not care how to solve this because this is beyond their means. They are giving something bluff, that's all.
Not stop (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"never be stopped"
|"never stop"
|"never stopped"
|"not stop"
|"not stopped"
|"not stopping"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Just like we just take example from your country. You are constructing so many highways, freeways. Still, there is problem. Still, even in the highways, sometimes blocked. Aiye. (Hindi) Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). (Hindi) We do not dissuade persons to stop work. No. That is not our... You do your work, but be Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's it. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was a fighter. Kṛṣṇa never stopped him from his occupation, but he was taught Kṛṣṇa conscious even in the battlefield. (Hindi—break) You want to see? Yes. Where is that book?
Haṁsadūta: Here, Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Kiñcid adhīta. (break) ...a thousand pages of this size. This is four hundred pages, but that Gītā will be thousand pages. But we shall use very thin paper. Yes. It is available after some time.
Guest (2): Where?
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...my Guru Mahārāja was in his last days, these rascal doctors injected... Our, this Kuñjabihārī, Tīrtha Mahārāja brought so many big, big doctors. And he protested, "Why are you giving me injection?" He protested. He personally said, "Why are you giving me injection?" And if you bring a doctor, the rascals will not stop. "Oh, that is our treatment. We must try our best." They will plead like that. "To give more trouble to the patient, that is our business." Inventing new medicines means inventing new means of giving trouble. That's all. As soon as you ask them whether by injection the life is guaranteed, they will say, "No. There is no guarantee. Let us try, make experiment." Yes. In hospital, as soon as you get (microphone moving)... Whatever nonsense knowledge they have got, they make experiment, at the risk of other's life.
Prabhupāda: Other surrender you have to change by revolution, but when you come to Kṛṣṇa, then it is sufficient. You are satisfied. Just like... I'll give you one example, that a child is crying, and people changing laps, "Oh, you are crying." It is not stopping. But as soon as the small baby comes to the lap of his mother, he stops: "Yes, full satisfied."
Guest: Final satisfaction of...
Prabhupāda: So these changes, this surrendering, will go on in different categories. Actually all the surrenders-sum total is surrender to māyā. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayi mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So this surrender is going on, going on. It is the māyā's, māyāra vaibhava, paraphernalia of māyā, either you surrender to this or to that. But final surrender-mām eva ye prapadyante, māyām etāṁ taranti te—the final surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then he is happy. Surrender will stay. His process of surrender is there, but this surrender keeps him quite satisfied, transcendental.
Prabhupāda: Well, become religious. If you are really Christian, that is all right. But you are not Christian because you are violating the orders of Lord Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed his life and he says that he atoned for your sins, but you are not stopping your sinful life, and still you are claiming to be Christian. The fun is going on. Actually there is no Christian. Otherwise Christian religion is very nice religion. Yes.
Journalist (1): Do you think that you can help large numbers of people in this country understand that...
Prabhupāda: I can help everyone provided he takes my help. If you refuse my help, how can I help you?
Journalist (1): No, I'm merely suggesting that you would...
Prabhupāda: Yes, What is our...? I am helping. I am asking people to become God conscious. But if you refuse to become God conscious how can I help you?
Journalist (1): But to become God conscious do you think they have to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the only way. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). By your service, Kṛṣṇa will automatically reveal Himself. He wants service; therefore He said, "Surrender unto Me." "Surrender unto Me," not stop all activities. "Surrender unto Me." What He will say, you do. That is surrender. Just like Arjuna surrendered. So surrender means that he had to fight. That is surrender. Not that "I surrender, I do nothing." That is not surrender. That is only negation. Doing nothing of the material things, that is negation. Take the positive view. That is doing always for Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: Eventually your mind will become so occupied, and every field of activity will become so occupied, that you will forget everything else, eventually.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pañcadraviḍa: Well we, many of us have tried to correct ourself, and as a result we have been accused of being separatist, simply because we don't want to go along with the nonsense that everybody else is doing, but we want to maintain some standard for ourself, of reading and chanting. Because we don't want to sit down and talk nonsense or do nonsense, and if you try to stop them they will not stop. So why we should fall down to that level? So we behave as separatist. We go into our room and we'll read, or we'll go into our room and chant, or we'll try and keep ourself clean, or try and do these things, and that is separatism because it's not falling into the level of māyā that's going on everywhere else in the temple, engaging in party politics and all these other things. That is, that is what I feel about it. Most of the devotees, they seem out of place.
Prabhupāda: Whatever is done is done. Now, you try to correct others by behaving yourself. Otherwise, there is no need of keeping so many men. We have attempted in Vṛndāvana. A few men may remain here. That's all. Otherwise, it will be not very nice to attract when people are attracted by seeing your behavior. They are seeing that, "Oh, Europeans and Americans, they have got such nice Vaiṣṇavas." They are attracted on that point. But if we are not to the standard point, they will immediately accuse, "Oh, they are..." So that should be corrected. The same principle, āpani ācari prabhu jīvere, we should behave ourselves nicely, then teach others. Then it will be (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, yes. Decorating a dead body, yes. So this is another foolishness. (loud sound of a chain-saw in the background) First of all they pin all these logs. Now they are cutting. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. And millions of dollars will be spent for this purpose.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have so many plans, one after another. Never stop.
Prabhupāda: Restlessness. Not fixed up. What they are doing here?
Brahmānanda: They want to break these posts to dig this hole.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is a very big..., quite deep. I think they are digging so they can take this out. This is called technological advancement. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes, to work foolishly. (break) 6:37. Is that all right? What is your time?
Brahmānanda: 6:34.
Prabhupāda: Oh, little slow.
Prabhupāda: Śrama eva hi kevalam. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as simply wasting time. That's all.
- dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhithaḥ puṁsāṁ
- viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
- notpādayed ratiṁ yadi
- śrama eva hi kevalam
- (SB 1.2.8)
Śrama eva hi kevalam. Everyone is acting. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhithaḥ. According to Vedic civilization, there are four divisions of men. brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and further, spiritual divisions, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So everyone has got some duty according to his position. So Bhāgavata says that even a person executes his duty very perfectly, but if he does not awaken his Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then all that he has done is simply a waste of time. So our point is that the UNESCO, United Nations, UNO, they're simply wasting their time. From practical point of view, they're unable to do anything. Because the original idea was to stop war. But the war is going on, fighting is going on. They could not stop it. And United Nations... But actually they are becoming disunited more and more. Pakistan was not there. You know very well. Lahore was your country. Now it is other's country.
Prabhupāda: Virginia?
Acyutānanda: Oh yes. Thirty below zero.
Prabhupāda: So we have no experience below zero degrees. But in Europe, America, there is places. In Russia also, below fifty degrees. But they do not stop their business. They know that "Winter season has come. It will go away again." So devotees, even they are in distressed condition, they know, "It has come due to my bad activities in the past. It will go away. Let me suffer and finish it." Just like if you become, all of a sudden, infected with some disease. So what? You'll go mad? No. You know that "I have infected this disease. Let me suffer a few days. It will go away. That's all." This is the mentality of the devotees. They are not disturbed. And if he's not disturbed, then he's fit for becoming liberated.
Prabhupāda: The meditation you can do, just like we are also doing meditation, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. But meditation as it is, to absorb the mind fully in God's vision, that is very difficult nowadays, at the present moment. People's mind is very disturbed. They cannot actually meditate. Therefore in this age, meditation, chanting the holy name of the Lord, that is recommended, congregationally. Just like we do, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma... So there is no need of dark room. Just like this boy. He is also a responsible officer in New York. He is also chanting. All these sannyāsīs. And we have got all these beads. So there is no need of meditating in darkness. We are going on the open street. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma... There is no difficulty. Neither we have to select a dark place. Anywhere. Just like I am talking with you, they are chanting. Their chanting is not stopped. So why should you go to a dark room? It is open thing. And it is open for everyone, in any moment. There is no hard and fast rule, that "You have to do like that, do like that." Simply you have to chant, anywhere possible.
Prabhupāda: Nobody has intelligence. It will not, it will not stay. It will be spoiled. Joint mess organization. In Los Angeles, they're also doing business. They're going to sell books. But regulative principle is observed. Huge expenditure they have got. No center is so improved as Los Angeles. We have purchased six houses. And I wanted immediately two lakhs, immediately sent. You cannot pay. You simply want to take. In India, nobody can pay. If I want two lakhs, nobody can pay. But all this money have been taken from U.S.A. I asked Bali Mardana, I asked Karandhara. They paid me for this Bombay affair, sixteen, eighteen lakhs. (break) ...and breathing also does not stop. It goes very slow. Therefore he cannot be immortal. And Bhagavad-gītā proposes, that is wonderful thing, if you can stop death. And whole spiritual life means how to stop death. That is Bhāgavata's instruction, "Don't accept guru, don't accept father, don't accept, or don't be father, don't be mother, don't be, if you cannot stop death."
Prabhupāda: Just see how rascaldom is going on. What is the use of our going there? "Things are going on..." Suppose in another state, something is going on. So are you interested? Going... Let them go. What is the benefit out of it? You spend so much money, public. Simply to see. "There is a crack." Last conclusion: "There was a crack." Just see how they are spoiling hard-earned public money. Because there is no good leader, all these rascals are benefiting, taking their money, and enjoying, and giving bluff information to the public. This should be stopped. Immediately this should be stopped. What is their contribution? The same thing: a dog is already barking, and because they're imitating barking, they're being awarded Nobel Prize, "Oh, how you can bark nicely!" This is going on. There is life already. It is practical. Everyone sees that a man and woman combines and there is child, life, another life. And now, foolishly they want to prove that life comes from matter. And as soon as we offer that "You take this matter. Produce," "That we shall see later on." Just see. In this way, they're spoiling money. So because there is no good leader, these rascals are not stopped.
Prabhupāda: No, that free will is not to be given. It is already there. Rather, Kṛṣṇa says He has given free will, but His personal advice is: "I am now talking to you the most confidential words." Sarva-guhyatamam. "You stop your so-called free will. Just surrender to Me." This is the most confidential. "If you surrender to Me, that is good for you. But if you go on keeping your free will you'll not be happy." There is also free will. When you come to the Kṛṣṇa platform you serve Kṛṣṇa with free will, not that you become a stone. There is free will. Just like our devotees they are dressing Kṛṣṇa nicely, is there no free will? They are cooking for Kṛṣṇa. Is there no free will? The free will is there. The Māyāvādī philosopher says, the Buddha philosopher says, that "Stop this free will, and then you become happy." But our proposition is not to stop free will but purify free will. Purify. Not stop these eyes. Just if it is suffering from cataract, cure that cataract. Keep the eyes. And their proposition, "Get out these eyes and throw it. Then there will be no more seeing what is right and wrong." That is their proposition.
Prabhupāda: So how you'll present it? The cheating process is going on. Unless you become God conscious, the cheating process will not stop. So there is no solution.
Prajāpati: So therefore we introduce bill into the schools to introduce God consciousness to all the children there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. God consciousness. Then everyone will be honest, and everything will be adjusted. Everyone can understand this is pure cheating. I give you a hundred dollars, a piece of paper. That's all. And you accept it. You want to be cheated. You thought, that "I have got now daily, hundred dollars. So let me work very hard." He does not consider that "I am not getting a hundred dollars. I am getting a piece of paper." So people have no brain to understand even. "This is not hundred dollars. Give me cash, hundred dollars." Then everything, solution will be... There will be no inflation. Because I know that paying you a piece of paper, I can cheat you, therefore I am printing notes, to cheat so many people. Therefore inflation. But when there will be no possibility to cheat you, then there will be no inflation. Here I have got the opportunity, because I know that pushing forward a piece of paper, I can cheat so many people. So there must be inflation. Is it not? This is not psychological? If I know that I can cheat you by this instrument, so why shall I not increase that? That is inflation. What do you think, Karandhara?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bali Mardana: And we will not want to fall down.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That, that is seriousness. Suppose you are going on a plane to Vaikuṇṭha. So your business should be that you may not fall down. The plane may not stop. It is like that. (break) ...Bhāgavata, simply this point is being stressed, that "This is the platform of deathlessness."
Bali Mardana: Oh.
Prabhupāda: In Bhagavad-gītā. (break) Where is that boy? No, not... Oh, you. So you are now living in Mexico?
Devotee: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. He's our old student.
Prabhupāda: That is important. Otherwise every work is preaching. See that everyone is engaged. There was an advertisement by the railroad department, their monogram was a wheel of carriage and they have written that every employee of the railroad should see that the wheel is running on. Wheel is running on. Now suppose in the office the clerks are working, so how they will see the wheel is running on? Because in the office of railway there is some complaint, there is some claim, there so many things... But that is depending on their wheel. So they should expedite their business so that wheel may not stop, it must go on. It is very nice instruction. So the wheel is going on. Suppose some station has asked for ten wagons immediately, and that requires the sanction of the divisional superintendent. That is his office. So the clerk should help the progress that immediately the sanction is done. Then the wheel will go on. Do you understand? So everyone can help that the railway wheel is going on. Although apparently it will appear that "What this clerk has to do with the wheel going on?" Is it clear?
Prabhupāda: And this is the position of the preacher. Even if you are disappointed, you should not stop your preaching. You should go on with your business.
Girirāja: "He told them that they should not be sorry for being refused by the brāhmaṇas. Because that is the way of begging. He convinced them that while one is engaged in collecting or begging, one should not think that he will be successful everywhere. He may be unsuccessful in some places but that should not be cause for disappointment."
Prabhupāda: (break) ...tama dāsa Ṭhākura has said, karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, kevala viṣera bhāṇḍa. Bhāṇḍa. It is a pot of poison. Karma-kāṇḍa, karma-kāṇḍa process and the jñāna-kāṇḍa process, karmīs and the jñānīs... Karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, kevala viṣera bhāṇḍa: "Both of them are poison pots." Jñāna-kāṇḍa also.
Prabhupāda: Well, Chamberlain may tried, might have tried to stop the war, but he could not stop the cause of the war. So far we know that the two wars started by Germany on account of Britain. So far I have studied. The German people did not like the Britishers to occupy the trade all over the world. And wherever they went to trade, they were restricting. I know this fact. In India the Britishers monopolized all trade, and they would not allow German goods to come in. So that was the cause of the war. The German knew that the Britishers, they are purchasing from Germany and stamping it "Made in London" and selling in India at high price. And when the Germans go there, they are not allowed to enter. This is the cause of the war. The Germans still, they do not like to speak in English. They are so envious. So Chamberlain might have tried to stop war, but his nation created the cause of the war. Why there should be... That was the demand, that free trade. Germans, in the, what is called, peace negotiation, their demand was free trade. Everyone... And that is very good. Why trade should be... This is unnatural. Let there be free trade. General public, they want best thing at good price, at cheap price. So if Japan and Germany can supply goods, necessary goods, at cheaper price, why they should be restricted? Let the people take advantage of it.
Prabhupāda: There is no question of stopping. If that is their livelihood, how they can stop it? That is not possible. But they can add this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting. Then things will be adjusted. It is not possible to stop different methods of livelihood. That is not possible. If one can stop, it is well and good, but even he does not stop, he can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.
Yogeśvara: But ultimately isn't our idea that the city complexes shouldn't remain, that things should become more spread out to farm and rural areas?
Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. If this man is fed up with this industry, he can go back to village and produce his own food. But he is attached to this industrial activity because he is thinking that "We are getting more money for wine and woman and meat. Let me enjoy." That is the perfect, imp...
Prabhupāda: No, you make the best use of a bad bargain. We shall depend more... Just like in New Vrindaban. They are coming to the city for preaching. So not absolutely we can abstain immediately because we have been dependent so long, many, many lives. You cannot. But the ideal should be introduced gradually. And make it perfect more and more and more and more. But there is possibility. Possibility if you live locally and make your arrangement, you get your foods... The real necessity is, bodily necessity is, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. This is necessity. So if you can eat locally, you can sleep locally, you can have your sex life also locally and you can defend locally, then what is the wrong? These are the necessities. We are not stopping this. We are not stopping, "No more sex life." That is nonsense, another nonsense. You must have. Marry. That's all. So you can marry locally and live. Where is the difficulty? Defend. If somebody comes to attack, there must be men to defend. And eating and sleeping. Where is your difficulty? Manage locally, as far as possible. After all, these are the necessities of body. So it can be solved locally. Is it impossible? To solve the bodily necessities? What do you think? Is it impossible?
Prabhupāda: First of all we should understand this, that we are in, on a platform. That is called material platform. So, so long you'll remain on the material platform—material platform means the bodily concept of life—the anxiety will never be stopped. First of all let us understand why there is anxiety. The example is given: because I am a being of the land, artificially, when I go up on a plane, on the sky, this is the cause of my anxiety. So I am a spirit being, I am a spirit soul. So long I'll live in material conception of life, we cannot avoid anxiety. This is not possible. This is the problem.
Robert Gouiran: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: I am a spirit soul. So my natural abode for living is spiritual world. So so long I am in the material world. It may be... The same example. I may be on the 747 or DC-10 or 10C-10 or this or that nonsense, I must be in anxiety. So that is the problem. And what is that material problem? Material life means you have got this material body and you do not wish to die. The anxiety on the plane is: "Because I may die..." That means you do not wish to die. That is my anxiety. If there is plane crash, then I may die. And therefore my anxiety. If I am assured that I'll not die, then where is that anxiety? The anxiety is that I do not wish to die, but death is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, we have got very regard, good regard, for Christianity. We take it as Vaisnavism. It is explained according to country, time. And the commandments are very nice. The first commandment is "Thou shall not kill," but that is not stopped in the Christian world. Therefore we say that the Christians are not following. Christianity is all right. Those who are professing Christianity, they are not following.
Jyotirmayī: (French)
Prabhupāda: Muhammadanism also Vaiṣṇavism, because Muhammad says, "I am servant of God, Allah." So that is our conception, dāsya-rasa, dāsya. Śānta, dāsya, sakhya, vātsalya, mādhurya. So prayer, offering prayer, that is also bhakti. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanam. Just like we are worshiping Deity and somebody is offering prayer—both of them are approved. Prayer, vandanam. Dāsyam sakhyam ātma-nivedanam. So we don't say that this is bad and this is good. No. Both of them are bhakti. To worship the Deity or to offer prayer, the effect is the same. Effect is not different.
Prabhupāda: He was Hindu in the beginning. Come on. He was Prince, then He become renounced and He was known as Lord Buddha. So Lord Buddha also started His system for stopping animal killing. Lord Jesus also said, "Thou shall not kill." Unfortunately the animal killing is not stopped. We are therefore teaching our followers: no meat-eating, so that if people stop meat-eating, automatically animal killing will be stopped. According to Vedic system, there are four pillars of sinful life, just like this table is on the four pillars. So one pillar is illicit sex, another meat-eating, another intoxication, and another gambling. So at least the brāhmaṇas, the priestly heads of religion, the king and the public leader, they should stop these four sinful activities. The leaders of the society they must be sinless. Then the human society will make nice progress. In the Bhagavad gītā it is stated: yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is fact. If you are actually devotee, then God will reveal. That is... That is stated in the Vedic language, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ: (Brs. 1.2.234) "You cannot understand the form, name, attributes, pastimes of God by these blunt senses." These senses, present (the ten) senses, cannot realize. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ. Indriya means sense. Then how to realize? Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. When you begin service with your tongue, then gradually God reveals. So tongue means you can do two business with the tongue. One is talking, and one is eating. So if you engage your tongue in glorifying God, and if you eat God's prasādam, then you realize God. Therefore these young boys and girls from Europe and America, they have been, they are being taught, "Use the tongue for Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam." And as practical result, although they are very young, still, they have realized God, Kṛṣṇa, far advanced than anyone else. They have forgotten all material things: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. They are simply devoted in the service of Kṛṣṇa. So because they have engaged their tongue in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, they have forgotten all kinds of intoxication, meat-eating. The American Government spent millions of dollars to stop their LSD habit. They could not stop even one man. But as soon as they come to Kṛṣṇa conscious, immediately give up. (French)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Atomic bomb normally acts as, ah, what happened is the particles floating in the atmosphere, like chemicals, chemicals, what happened is this explosion offers this, ah, fundamental particles like neutrons, electrons, they bombard further atoms which are already in the atmosphere. So one by one they knock out these smaller particles called electrons. They move very high velocity. There is a very tremendous energy, amount of energy released. So one... So suppose first atomic bomb, ah, the, ah, the energy-bringing substance like electron, neutron, hits another atom, and then it knocks out several of that sort, and then it makes a chain reaction, not stopping because..., and thereby several atoms they will knock each other, one by one, without stopping. Small particles, so much energy has got. But in the sun planet, where it is so hot, it is already probably more powerful that the atomic bomb itself.
Prabhupāda: Therefore this example. (laughs) What it will act, the atomic bomb, in the sun planet? Similarly, Brahmā might have possessed some power, but what is that power in comparison to Kṛṣṇa? Every power is derived from Him; so Brahmā's mystic power cannot act on Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole world is envious, whole world. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. That Bhāgavata is not meant for such envious persons. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2), those who are no more envious. How they will have a devotee envious? He loves Kṛṣṇa and in relationship with Kṛṣṇa loves everyone. In that position, in that state, one will not try to suppress another. Otherwise, it is material life. To live at the cost of others, to suppress one, to take other's money and become rich. There is story in the Aesop's Fable that—you perhaps know it—that a dog took the flesh in his mouth and was crossing a river, and the shadow was in the water. So he thought there is another dog with the flesh, so he wanted to..., he lost this, and that was a shadow. So he has got a flesh in his mouth, but he is an animal, it was deluded that "Another dog is carrying, so I shall take." So even in the cats and dogs, this tendency is there. Even the cats and dogs, they are also. So how can you stop it? That will be not stopped. They do not know. Therefore, these theories, they are simply theories; they are not practical. They do not know what is the nature, how nature is working.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That means in need. So that is the question, that you may be in need of food, I may be in need of some woman, he may be in need of some money... In this way everyone is needy. Therefore ultimately one should search after God, when every need will be fulfilled. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, he went... He was in need of an empire like his father. For that reason he went to the forest and performed all kinds of austerities, and when he saw God he said, svāmin kṛthārto 'smi varaṁ na yāce: "I have no more need. Everything is fulfilled. I don't want anything." He... God said, "Now whatever benediction you want, you take from Me." He said, "No, I don't want anything. Now everything is fulfilled." So that is the real need. The child is crying, and he is not stopping crying. So many others coming. But as soon as his mother comes, he will stop. He understands immediately, "Now I have got the thing, my mother." So the real need is Kṛṣṇa. That is missing. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: No, not stopped. Just like you have got ordinary car and you purchase a Rolls-Royce car. The business is the same. It is simply an artistic improvement. In the ordinary car there is much jerking and the Rolls-Royce car there is no jerking. That will not benefit you. After all it is car. You can use it for going here to there, there to here, that's all. Therefore our Vedic civilization, they are not very much eager to manufacture a motor car, they are satisfied with the bullock cart. Because after all you have to go from this place to that place. And there was no need of big, big roads, three thousand miles long for driving the car. You see. The bullock cart was sufficient, here to there, a few miles. But they were interested to cultivate spiritual knowledge. That is Indian civilization. Vyāsadeva was living in a cottage and just see literature. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was prime minister of India and he was living in a cottage, drawing no salary and he has given his politics and moral lesson, so sublime. So here at the present moment, the motor car civilization, he's anxious how to get a Rolls-Royce motor car, that's all. That is his business.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Formerly, also, there were brahmāstra, fire, firearms, brahmāstra. (break) ...problems that we are facing, they were also in the past under different name, different form.
Nalinī-kānta: (break) ...Communists win, that will not stop our preaching?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Nalinī-kānta: They do not like to hear of God.
Rāmeṣvara: You wrote that if the Communists are victorious they would destroy whatever is left of the culture.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Victory for the Communists means the whole human culture is lost.
Ajāta-śatru: Does it mean that they will also attack the Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: That is Bhagavad-gītā, that aviruddho-kāmo 'smi. "Sense gratification which is not against religious principles, that sense gratification I am," Kṛṣṇa says. We do not stop sense gratification, but we want to regulate sense gratification like a gentleman, not like hogs and dogs. That is human civilization. Sense gratification like hogs and dogs, not required. Sense gratification... People are following that. Although they are so degraded, still, they have not sanctioned as yet to have openly sense gratification on the street like hogs and dogs. That is regulated. That's still going on. But because the civilization is gliding down to animalism, they don't want this restriction. That is the hippies' protest, that, "Why this convention required? Let us enjoy like hogs and dogs." That is advancement.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you say sense gratification, senses are there, and senses want satisfaction, but you can know the proper way of satisfaction. That we are teaching. We do not say that "Make your senses blunt." But you enjoy properly. That is stated, tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattva hy asmad brahma-saukhyam anantam (SB 5.5.1). You are wanting sense gratification, but it is being checked up on account of your diseased condition of life. Therefore you purify yourself. Then you enjoy senses perpetually. This is the injunction. We are not stopping sense gratification. But you are trying to gratify senses in your diseased condition. Just like if you are feverish, you cannot enjoy to eat a rasagullā. It will be not tasteful. So cure yourself and enjoy rasagullā. That is our program.
Prabhupāda: Yes, senses are meant for enjoyment. But if you want to enjoy your senses in diseased condition, that is your misfortune. You have to cure your disease, then you will enjoy. Just like the tongue, in diseased condition, even if you are given rasagullā, you will not taste it. Senses, we are not the Māyāvādīs, they finish the senses, make, become impersonal. That is not our program. We want to purify the senses. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Purīfy. The diseased man, he cannot see. He has got some glaucoma disease. Cure it, and he will see very nicely. That is our program. The Māyāvādī program is that if this eye is giving trouble, I cannot see, pluck it out. We are not doing that, we are trying to cure the disease and see. So senses should be cured, and then you will be able to enjoy. That is our program. We are not stopping sense enjoyment; we are trying to give you real sense enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: No, that you have not done. No disease... You have increased diseases. You have stopped one disease and increased another. Not stopped! But you have increased another disease.
Devotee: We have to learn though how to prevent all these diseases.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you are fool. You have to learn. That means you have to learn, means you are fool.
Yaśodānandana: But we are learning.
Prabhupāda: Don't assert it, that you have done it already, you shall do it... As soon as you say we have to learn, that means you are fools. And while you are student, why you are claiming all these perfections? You have to learn. That you have to learn from us.
Prabhupāda: Because we know that there is no cure. You do not know. You are trying to cure. That is the difference between you and me. We know so long I have got this body, I'll have to suffer. So we do not stop our business. We tolerate and do our business. That's all. But you have no business. You are simply trying, hope against hope. But it will never be fulfilled. Just like birds, bees, they do not know science. But so long they have got this body, they are also sometimes diseased. But they have no science, how they are cured? The same thing, just like this tree, they have no scissors, so how their leaves are being trimmed, falling down, (indistinct). We have discovered scissors, or clippers, but you have no clippers. How their hairs, or their leaves are being cut?
Prabhupāda: No, no, that they may not... I mean to say, from mundane argument, we are selling these twenty lakhs of worth books monthly, so it is being spread all over the world. And those who are purchasing books, they are intelligent men. Then when they will read, how this movement will stop?
Guest (1): It will never stop.
Prabhupāda: It will not stop. The books distribution is so important, that it will continue to stay.
Satsvarūpa: They doubt that our devotees will stick many times.
Prabhupāda: Never mind. We will create by distributing books new devotees. These devotee may be... But others will be created. And we are creating a new generation for becoming devotee at Dallas.
Prabhupāda: And in the record album he has given this picture. So you are intelligent girl, you study about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will benefit you. The anthropology you may get some degree, adoration. What is the benefit? Jaya. (Carol leaves) They enquire why I have come to the West. If I enquire that two thousand year ago you have been taught that "Thou shall not kill," and your business is only to kill. I have come to enquire from you, "What is your answer?" How you have become civilized, that you cannot accept one instruction of Jesus Christ. And you are declaring yourself as Christian and civilized. This is my question. Answer it. In two thousand years, first of all you began killing Christ. Never mind, still, two thousand years past, you could not stop killing? You could not accept the first instruction. What kind of civilized man?
Prabhupāda: And how we are finding pleasure in chanting and dancing? It is a practice.
Devotee: No, I mean sex life.
Prabhupāda: Sex life we are not stopping. But sex life allowed only to the gṛhasthas, householder, restricted. Not illicit sex. We are not stopping sex life. Sex life is required. But under rules. And if you enjoy illicit sex, then the whole society is spoiled. You make the innocent girls spoiled. And they have no other business than prostitution. That means you put the society into chaotic condition. The young girls they become cheap, you enjoy, then you become irresponsible. You have no family encumbrances, and you do not know how to maintain the family. That is the position. What is this welfare? Because the young boys enjoy the young girls and they get children, the government has to support.
Prabhupāda: You are capable. I know that. He is very capable. You know how to do business, yes. In India an educated man and big, big government officers, lawyers, they will purchase. We do not approach them. School, colleges, library, universities. After all, English language is still current in India. It is not stopped. So they will like to read their own literature in English. They made vigorous propaganda to replace English by Hindi. That has failed. That has failed. No gentleman cares to learn Hindi. (chuckles) At least I never cared. I know Hindi, not by diverting my attention, no. That is very important, no. Automatically whatever I learned, that's all. I am not in favor of that Hindi. Especially in South India, they are all... So by appointing some professional men also.
Prabhupāda: No, artificial... Just like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he was fasting, but he was not weak. That fasting. And he who will fast artificially and become weak, "I cannot work," that is not required. That is called markaṭa-vairāgya. If you fast and at the same time you do not become weak, then that is recommended. And after fasting you cannot do a flat, fall flat, then what is the use of fasting? Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was fasting, but he was taking thrice bathing and offering obeisances hundred times. His regular activities was not stopped. And he was taking every alternate day a little quantity of butter. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we cannot imitate his position.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. We have to work.
Brahmānanda: Of course, they will try to stop that. Through contraceptive methods and abortion, they will try to stop having children.
Prabhupāda: But that is not stopping. That is artificially taking some other measures. That is not stopping.
Harikeśa: The two countries that have women as leaders are in the headlines all the time. Like Israel, Golda Meir, they are always war between there and Egypt.
Brahmānanda: Argentina also.
Harikeśa: Argentina, and India. Now there will be war. Wherever there is woman in charge, there is war, disruption. But they think because they are in charge, that proves they are equal.
Prabhupāda: I think in Indian history she is the first woman to be in charge of the state. Before her, there is no instance of woman becoming in charge.
Prabhupāda: Yathā mat tathā path. This is going on. Everyone will say something, and it is all right. However nonsense it may be, it is all right. Even Gandhi followed that philosophy. Therefore he invented one, another philosophy, nonviolence, which is impossible. When Hindus approached him, that "You have got so much influence over the Mohammedans, so why not stop cow killing?" he said, "It is their religious principle. How can I interfere?" Just see.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa orders in Bhagavad-gītā, go-rakṣya.
Prabhupāda: And he is considered to be a great scholar in Bhagavad-gītā, and when cow protection was requested, he said that "How can I do it? It is their religious principle." And he is a great big scholar in Bhagavad-gītā. All nonsense, going on. Whole world is full of nonsense, mūḍhas, beginning from Gandhi to any rascal, all of them, rascals. Perhaps it is the first time we are detecting, "Here are all rascals." It is first time. Then we are enemy of everyone. We call everyone rascal-Gandhi rascal, Vivekananda rascal, Aurobindo rascal. So actually they are, but people are thinking, "These people say all big, big men rascals? Therefore they are rascals."
Prabhupāda: There should be a function, all the brāhmaṇas and relatives should come, and there will be ceremony, and everyone will know that "This man is going to now sex, have sex for begetting children." This is ceremony, not secretly like cats and dogs. Cats and dogs also, they do not do secretly. A human being do it secretly and do not want the botheration. Therefore their scientific advancement means how to kill the child, how to make abortion, how to take contraceptive pills, how to distribute them, how allow the children, "Yes, you go on, but take these pills so that you may not be bothered." Yes. Why not stop it, botheration? That you cannot, because animals. Because animal civilization, they cannot do it. Kaṇḍutive manivasi viṣaheta dhīraḥ. Why don't you teach them to become dhīraḥ, sober—"Let me tolerate this itching sensation"—brahmacārī? That teaching is not good. You do it repeatedly, suffer, and suffer consequences. And to stop it they suffer in so many ways, suffering, suffering. Bahu-duḥkha bhajaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Sex life, illicit or legal, the after-effect is suffering. Even it is not illicit—it is legal—then to take care of the wife or the children, for their education, for their upliftment and so on, so on, so on—suffering.
Prabhupāda: These rascals, once they have done, "That's all right. You have got one child. Just take of." "No, again, again." Once you have committed sinful activities, killing the child in the womb, "All right, stop it now." "No, again." Tṛpyanti neha kṛpana. He's never satisfied. He knows that there is suffering behind this. Still, he'll not stop it. Therefore a sober man... A man should be educated to become sober, that "Let me tolerate this itching, that's all. I save so much trouble." This is knowledge. To become rascal and more rascal and more rascal and suffer, is that civilization? Simply to make the people rascal and suffer and commit suicide? Just tell them that he has created this civilization that suffer and become rascal. That's all. Unless you become rascal, how you will suffer? So keep them rascal and suffer. This is nature's arrangement, that "You living entity, you have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. All right, come under my control. Be rascal, remain rascal and suffer." Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). Why she is doing that?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He directly said, "I don't care for the Vedas." Lord Buddha says. So who will worship a person who directly says, "I don't care for your Vedas"? Shall you go to worship a Buddhist or Mohammedan? No. This is emergency. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita paśu-ghāṭam. He cannot deride the Vedic principle, but it was necessary at the time. Otherwise these rascals will not stop.
Dr. Patel: Today, sir, the more animals are being killed than what they were killed in those days in the name of religion. Today it is in the name of the civilization
Prabhupāda: Because... No, no. Now there is no religion. "Secular." There is no religion.
Dr. Patel: Don't say no religion. Secularism is irreligious...
Prabhupāda: Secular means no religion.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Harikeśa: It starts with the present, what is now presently existing, and then the...
Prabhupāda: Well, presently or.... That is another foolishness. The, the body and the moving active principle is eternally existing. It is not that formerly the body did not stop acting. It is dead. Study the whole history of human beings, any being—the death is always there. Then what is modern effort? Birth, death, old age, disease. They're always existing. Why do they say "modern"? This is eternal fact. Why they should say it is modern?
Harikeśa: Well, it's the present culmination of synthesis and antithesis.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is their imperfect knowledge. They do not know. What is thesis, what is antithesis, and the synthesis, they do not know.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: It is struggle. Struggle means.... Struggle for existence means there is something against my will, and I want to stop it. This is called struggle for existence. And that is.... The whole world is going on, that.... They have started that United Nation. Why United Nation? You remain.... But they are trying to stop war. "Let us struggle unitedly." So that is going on. You don't want war, but the war is inevitable. Even the United Nation is there, still war is going on. That is struggle. So, but they are not coming to the point of understanding that "We are trying so much, so hard, to become happy, but nature is not allowing me." This is real intelligence. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. If we remain dull—"Let the nature's law act upon me as it likes"—and we go on struggling to stop it, it will never stop, because nature's law is so powerful. You can never stop it.
Guru-kṛpā: Like my father is very sinful, but he would always say, "The good Lord is protecting me." He would always say, "God, God," but he never would follow anything. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...wars? Why...? Why the God does not stop the wars? And they are so much afraid of war. What is the answer?
Guru-kṛpā: Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). They are mad for sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: No.... That is all right, but God.... Your father says Lord will protect, but when there is atomic bomb, why He does not protect?
Guru-kṛpā: Well, up to now He's protected.
Devotee (3): They say that actually there never was any God, it's just a belief that man had.
Devotee (2): ...revolutionary questions that you're asking because they never stop to ask... They say that you cannot accept any philosophy, why are they giving their philosophy? No one every thought to ask that question.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Everyone is rascal. Therefore I say all rascals. They have no sense. If you want me to pose your philosophy, why shall I not impose my philosophy? I've got the same right. Why should I accept yours?
Devotee (2): Philosophers are saying that there's no philosophy, but they're giving their philosophy.
Prabhupāda: If there's no philosophy, why you rascal propose some philosophy? Stop talking. (everyone laughs)
Devotee (3): No philosophy.
Indian man: Is it not better to run than to stand still and sleep?
Prabhupāda: No, running is not stopped, but running must be with some purpose, aim of life. That they do not know. They are missing the aim of life.
Indian man: I meant, Swamiji, rajas is a better manifestation than tamas.
Prabhupāda: No, you have to go above rajas-tamaḥ. Rajas-tamaḥ means greediness and lust.
Prabhupāda: I write in the night. I get up at half past twelve. I go to bed at half past ten, and I get up at half past twelve. Then I finish my chanting, if there is any balance, and then I begin dictating. And the morning they take it and type it. So this dictaphone is always with me, wherever I go, so my writing book is not stopped. Maybe few pages, but something is there daily. Little drops of water wears the stone. So in that way we have translated so many books. About fifty-four books are already published, besides the small booklets. And, how many we have published, Bhāgavatam? About twenty-two?
Hari-śauri: Twenty volumes, and two more in print now.
Prabhupāda: Therefore twenty-two. I am expecting sixty volumes. Sixty volumes of four hundred pages. The biggest canto is the Tenth Canto. I've already published the Tenth Canto, summarized: Kṛṣṇa. But in detail, it will take at least twenty volumes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I never said that "You have to give up this, you have to do this." Never said. Then gradually ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). When the heart becomes cleansed, then little. There is no hopelessness. So many people have come, and they are coming. Both black, white, everyone is coming. There is no question of (indistinct). But you cannot expect that cent percent people will come; that is not possible. But even, even one-fourth percent people come to this, then it will be successful. Compared to the American population, what percentage we have got? Still they have made some impression, the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Literatures are selling, they are appreciating, learned circle. Takes some time, but if we stick to our principles and do not make any compromise and push on—in this way, I have given you instruction, it will never stop; it will go on. It will never stop. At least for ten thousand years it will go on.
Prabhupāda: What is his enjoyment? If anyone sees slaughterhouse, will he enjoy? Eh? What is...? He visits a slaughterhouse, is it enjoyment? But he takes as enjoyment. (Sanskrit), unnecessary, without any meaning. Mad, just like a madman acts, without any meaning. The monkey acts without any meaning. (Sanskrit), unnecessarily creating disturbance. (Sanskrit) sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then all (Sanskrit) is finished. (Sanskrit) We are no more interested in unnecessary things. Illicit sex—one side they are encouraging contraceptive method, so why they'll not stop illicit sex, then automatically there is contraceptive method? So one side there is encouraged, contraceptive method, another, unlimited, unrestricted sex. This is their civilization. Why not teach him not to practice illicit sex? Then everything is done automatically. There's no need of contraceptive method. If one is trained up to indulge in sex only for begetting nice children, there is already contraceptive method.
Prabhupāda: For your direct whims you have to spend so much money? The people are so befooled they do not challenge them. Yes. Everyone knows, suppose one is coming to the western country, Europe and America, we knew it, that it is cold country, we must take proper dress. And we have come and we are staying. So this is knowledge. So if you do not know what is the atmosphere there, what do you spend so much money? And again you are going to the Mars. Are you fixed up what is the position there? Then you'll again bring something, some dust and rock. (laughter) This business will go on at the expense of the... You can do. You have got money. You can do that. But we are Indians, we are coming from poor country. If you spend so much money for nothing, that is very, not very palatable for us. If one tenth of the expenditure you would have given to us for spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... No. Not a single paisa they will give. And they'll spoil money for going to the moon planet and bring some dust. That's ... Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is struggling to construct a small residential quarter here, and he has to beg, he has to collect, he has done... Why the government does not pay? "Here so many people are living. Let them live comfortably." But they'll spend this money, millions of dollars, and to bring some dust. Is that very sane government? And people are so fool that they do not challenge the government, "Why you are spending for nothing?" They can do that. They brought back Nixon. Why not stop this unnecessary expenditure? Hm? Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja?
Prabhupāda: And animal life means you can do whatever you like. They keep to the right, keep to the left, it doesn't matter. But their offense is not taken because they are animals. But a human being, if he does not follow the regulative principles, it is sinful. He'll be punished. The same principle. Just like when there is red light, if you do not stop, you'll be punished. But a cat and dog, if he transgresses, "Never mind red light, I shall go," he's not punished. So tapasya is meant for the human being. He must do it if he wants at all progress of life. That is essential.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In terms of diet, dietary regulations, eating...
Prabhupāda: That is also tapasya. That is also tapasya. Just like we are prohibiting meat-eating. So in your country this is little troublesome. From the very beginning of his life he is, I mean to say, habituated to eat meat. The mother purchases powdered meat and mix with... I have seen it. And by force. So he has been trained up eating meat, and I say, "Don't eat meat." So therefore that is troublesome. And if he's serious, he must accept the order. That is tapasya. Tapasya means in diet, in practice, in behavior, in dealing, and so on, so on. Everything there is tapasya. That is all described. Mental tapasya, bodily tapasya, and what is called? Word? Just like vāco-vegam, this is tapasya. You cannot talk nonsense. You want to talk something nonsense, but according to... So they don't talk nonsense. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvar... If you talk, you must talk about Kṛṣṇa. That is tapasya. "Śāstra has ordered me not to talk loosely anything, only talk of Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: This is the trap of māyā, to keep them captivated by sex attraction. All these living entities who are in this material world, beginning from the higher planetary system down to the ants and germs and flies. This is the primary enjoyment, sex. The central attraction is sex. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). The human being, the same sex desire, they decorate it in a different way. But the central point is the same. "So all right, why? It is enjoyment, why you are forbidding?" Saintly persons say, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is a pleasure of itching sensation. Itching sensation, when you itch, it is very pleasing. But bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Aftereffect is very bad, suffering. Itching, if you itch more, it aggravates, sometimes causes so many other by-products and so on, so on. That is fact. But everyone knows it, that "I may enjoy sex pleasure now; the aftereffect will be very bad." Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. But why people do it again and again? Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Those who are kṛpaṇa-kṛpaṇa means not brāhmaṇa—those who are not trained up as a brāhmaṇa, they cannot tolerate this itching sensation. They become victimized and the aftereffect is very, very bad. So either illicit or not illicit... They know it. The modern civilization, they have adopted the means of killing. First of all, they try to stop pregnancy by contraceptive method, and still if it is not stopped, then kill. And if he's still born, then again they put up in a box and go away. You know this?
Prabhupāda: Yes, but practically that is now their income. The more one gets the worshiping term longer, he gets more income. (laughs) The Deity has got very, very good income. All the temples in India... Just like I am trying to make some fund for Vṛndāvana and Māyāpur. Even no contribution comes, it will go on. The sevā-pūjā will not stop for want of money. So there will be no want of money. Still, I must make some provision, by the income the sevā-pūjā will go on. Contribution may come or not. That provision should be made. Now in Vṛndāvana Akṣayānanda is collecting in so many ways. Suppose nobody collects. That does not mean this temple will be closed. It must go on. So I am trying to make some provision from that bank interest. At least five to ten thousand rupees so that the Deity worship will not be stopped. That is the system in all Indian temples. It must go on, nitya-sevā. It must go on. These big, big temple in Vṛndāvana, they have got such arrangement. Otherwise how it is going on for five hundred, six hundred years? They have very good income.
Jayapatākā: Now the price of rice has gone up by about eighty paisa. From two rupees to two-eighty. So the poor class of people, they are in a very bad situation. So now our attendance has gone up from twelve hundred to two thousand on that Saturday and Sunday, each day. So we have two shifts. So many people are coming that they come from ten o'clock in the morning and wait because otherwise they can't get a boat in time to cross the river. So then we were very surprised to read in a recent newsletter from LA that "They're going to restart the food relief." But we never knew it stopped. We never knew that they had stopped the food relief. We saw then that he said, "They're going to restart." But we never stopped, and we were very surprised to see that. And now they say...
Prabhupāda: Who said?
Jayapatākā: Rāmeśvara.
Gargamuni: To maintain this food relief from the centers only requires what? Fifteen hundred dollars a month. So little amount and so much service is done.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: Rāmeśvara, you wrote him a letter that "Jayapatākā Swami should be sent money for ISKCON Food Relief." And he told me that "I am sending you. I have four thousand dollars, "which he sent. We had already been 36,000 rupees in debt because we had not received money for six months. But he wrote in a newsletter to the temples that "Prabhupāda has wrote me to send money to Jayapatākā Swami; and now we're going to start again ISKCON Food Relief." But that was making it appear that we had stopped. But actually we had never stopped.
Prabhupāda: Rāmeśvara? He did not know?
Jayapatākā: Rāmeśvara had stopped collecting from the temples. But we had never stopped...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, he'll collect. That's all.
Jayapatākā: Your program everyone is appreciating. When the newspapermen came out, at that time the black development officer he came there, and when the newspapermen were there he sat down with all the poor people and he took also and said, "This is very good. This is our national service." And they photographed.
Prabhupāda: "National Service"?
Prabhupāda: Bhakti means that. Nitya-yuktā upāsana. Upāsana continues. Here they're upāsana. Here the devotees offering worship to the Deity, it is upāsana. And after being perfect, that upāsana will continue. It will never stop.
Indian man (2): It will never stop, that's the fact. That is that a man...
Prabhupāda: But Māyāvādī philosophy is that you offer upāsana now and when you are perfect you become one.
Indian man (2): Not one. I mean you merge with one. Not you become one. You merge with one.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no advaita-vāda. There is dvaita-vāda. Two. There is no advaita-vāda. If you accept that you remain different, then there is no advaita.
Indian man (2): We don't dare do you see, ācchā, at a particular stage you like to merge with Him?
Prabhupāda: If stop then how their work will go on? They manufacture ideas and spend money. This is the difficulty. Everyone manufactures some idea. And break it, do it, dig it. Money is coming and they are spending it. They cannot adjust whatever is there. Big big ideas. Big big belly. And money we have to bring from America. "Give me one lakh, give me one lakh, 15,000. I make idea, you pay." So many rooms you can make showroom. Why breaking this door, breaking that door? Too many cooks spoils the broth. And repairing and, what is called, addition, alteration, will never stop. I do not know how to stop it. Now, the other, Yesterday that Viśvambhara said, you were here, no? Viśvambhara said, suggesting there should be raft (?) three feet high, seven feet high, this high... Everyone will suggest. And spend money. Any friend, you bring him, he'll suggest so that you may spend it. And wherefrom money will come? Oh, that is your look after. I am your friend, I am giving you good suggestion
Prabhupāda: That ah, the fight between the Viṣṇu party and the demon party is always going on.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well they could never stop it, I mean... they could just...
Prabhupāda: No. It is in the hands of the young men. It is not possible for them to stop it. If, had it been a sentiment of some retired, just like other thing, that Vivekananda's, all these old fools and rascals, they assemble and meditate. It is not that. They are active. It is not so-called meditation, and snoring, (makes snoring sound) meditating! It is not that. I have seen, all these rascals go, yogis, they prescribe meditation, and meditation means sleeping and snoring, that's all. It is not that movement. We are sending in (indistinct), "Come, sell books." It is no question of meditation. Cheating himself and cheating others. What he will meditate and he requires so many primary rules and regulations before meditating, not that... In the Bhagavad-gītā before meditation it is clearly stated one should not close the eyes. As soon as you close the eyes and meditate, you will sleep. Immediately. They should be half closed and concentrate your eyesight on the top of the nose. That is meditation. Not that closing and snoring and huhuh. These rascals are going on.
Mahāṁśa: Mebubshah. He's a Muslim but he's so loyal. He's the best man. And then Puru and Hanumān. These three people, they are very loyal and they are trustworthy. These people in the villages, they tend... Because they have their home there, so sometimes they want something for their home, so they will steal. And if some other village man steals, he will not stop them. He will say, "All right," because if he stops him, then in his village there will be trouble for him. See? So he will encourage his other villagers to steal. But these men, if they see some villagers stealing, they will stop them. This has happened.
Prabhupāda: This is natural. So how to deal with this?
Mahāṁśa: So we have both. We can get outsiders to come and stay here who we can give prasādam, make them chant, and give them mahā-prasādam. They love it. In the morning. We used to give them a little mahā-prasādam in the morning. They like it very much. By that, we gain their confidence.
Prabhupāda: We shall like that they will come here and stay and remain our twenty-four hours' son. That is very good also.
Mahāṁśa: Only thing is that in the beginning, because they do not know us very well, they will demand some salary. I told you previously that now I am paying them hundred rupees and 125 rupees for family.
Prabhupāda: But in our Māyāpur, that plant, we spent so much, it has not become successful.
Indian man: No that is mechanical fault. Just like electricity now it has failed. Now sir, we should not stop utilizing electricity.
Prabhupāda: No, any machine, that defect will be there.
Indian man: But that we have been working for twenty years in Ahmedabad. Everybody is very happy there, and they're actually making money out of it. The fertilizer that is there is about four times what is normally achieved. So good maintenance are required for any...
Prabhupāda: (sneezes loud) I have no objection, but I've got experience. In Māyāpur it is failure.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is like I explained. Kṛṣṇa said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So where is the difficulty? I am changing my body. So why I shall not get another body after my death? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). And wherefrom this knowledge is coming? From Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. In the beginning I may not understand, but it is a fact. If you think over, you'll understand, "Yes, I am eternal. Why I am put into this difficulty, changing this body?" This is common sense. "Why I shall die? Why not stop death?" That is knowledge. That is knowledge. But then going on, (Hindi): "Everyone dies. I will die. What is that?" But why you shall die? You live. And Kṛṣṇa gives the formula. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Take this process. This body is material; you have to give it up. But no more material body. Why don't you take this science; how it is possible? Why do you not contribute this science to the whole world as India's contribution? They need it. Why you go beg? Give something. In Berkeley University, one Indian student, "Swamiji, what this hari-kīrtana will do? We require now technology." So I replied, "Yes, you have come to beg here. I have come to give something. I am not a beggar like you." So we are working... Of course, we are Indian, we are poor. That is another thing. But I never went to beg something from them. I never asked them any money. I never asked them. They give me money because they understand that I am giving something.
Prabhupāda: The people approached him that "Mahatmaji, you have got influence over the Muslims, why not stop cow-killing?" "I cannot touch on their religious principles." Just see. Cow-killing is religious? Their religious principle. If I say my father-killing, mother-killing is my religion, so Gandhi will say, "Yes, you can do that. Nonviolent." Kill nonviolent. This nonsense contradiction can be tolerated by the fools and rascals. That's all. That is... Nonviolence, at the same time cow-killing. This rascal, another rascal... You are observing Buddha-jayantī and daily cow-killing. As if Buddha, Lord Buddha, recommended cow-killing.
Dr. Patel: Buddhists all eat, are meat-eaters the world over.
Prabhupāda: Not a question of Buddhist. That is Christian, Hindus, everyone. Rascals. Lord Buddha, he was nonviolent, and this Jawaharlal Nehru was observing Buddha-jayantī and at the same time sanctioning cow-killing. What is that? Cow-killing. "What is wrong in eating meat?" He has said that. (break) ...advertising our movement. Everyone's asking, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa?"
Prabhupāda: I am thinking of Kṛṣṇa, and if you stop me to think of Kṛṣṇa, is it not going against my thought? Bhagavad-gītā, it is recommended, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. So this is a standard thing. So I thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Why you should stop me? Is it not infringement my freedom?
Rāmeśvara: They argue that they are not stopping you from thinking about Kṛṣṇa. They want to stop you from being a member of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.
Prabhupāda: Why? If I have to think of Kṛṣṇa, I must be member of the society. Otherwise how can I think of? Suppose if I have to do business, share business, I have to become a member of the share market.
Rāmeśvara: They say that the way the society is managed...
Prabhupāda: You can say. But this is the system. If you have got some thought, you must mix with such similar thoughtful men. That is everywhere. The scholars, they associate; the medical men, they associate. How can you stop it?
Prabhupāda: Just like sex life is enjoyment, but a person who is suffering from tuberculosis—his death. He'll die if he indulges in sex life. That is medical science. "So it is condemned in the material world, not in the spiritual world. If you have good health, you can enjoy sex life. But you have tuberculosis? You'll die. Your sex life is death, and their sex life is life. That you cannot understand. You have such a poor brain that you could not follow even ordinary moral instruction of Jesus Christ." Answer should be given like that. "If you remain with your poor brain, don't try to argue. Be satisfied, your poor doggish brain, hoggish brain. You are like pigs and dogs. What you can understand about religion? First of all try to train yourself to be free from the sinful activities. Then you'll understand what is religion." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam (BG 7.28). Ultimately, a person, sinful man, cannot go to the kingdom of God. Is it not? First of all stop this sex life; then talk of God. It is a fact. When the order of Jesus Christ, "Thou shall not kill," for the last two thousand years the rascals have never stopped killing. They are simply increasing slaughterhouse. And... So they are so poor in understanding, they say animal has no soul.
Prabhupāda: No, Radhakrishnan may say so, but who has accepted? You are, because you are a fool. Same argument, that people have passed urine on his face, and they are worshiping. They have not stopped Kṛṣṇa worshiping because Radhakrishnan has said, restriction. (?) Who cares for him? Vṛndāvana, there are five thousand temples. Every day thousands of people are coming. We have started Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple very recently, and thousands of men are coming. Who cares for Radhakrishnan? Daye mane nāpa ni more (?) "Nobody cares for him; he becomes leader." What is the value of such leader? If somebody cares for that person, then he's leader. Nobody cares for him? He's leader for you because you are a rascal. You do not know anything. So he may be leader for men like you, but India... Nobody cares for him. Is it not? Who cares for Radhakrishnan?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they must. Otherwise the freedom is lost. Anyone can be kidnapped.
Rāmeśvara: That is what they are realizing, that this may not stop at just Hare Kṛṣṇa. They can kidnap anyone. That's our propaganda to get support.
Prabhupāda: Just like emergency.
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Hari-śauri: In Russia they do that. When they don't like someone, they put him in a mental home.
Rāmeśvara: That was that whole article I brought from page one of L.A. Times, that how they have made this legal. And now they have got tax exemption. So now it's going to increase. For the next year it's going to increase, because they're going to get a lot of money from the families as tax write-offs.
Prabhupāda: Tax invention? What is that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) If these people are making against our movement, so we should not be surprised. The parents who are leaving their children, dropping their children—"Yes, go and have homosex dancing"—if such parents protest against our movement it is not at all astonishing. But we should not stop it for that reason. This is apparent. So this thing should be brought in the court, that "This is the parent. The parent also requires this brainwash. Why the sons and daughters only? The father, mother..."
Gargamuni: In the court they also have no standard. They don't know what moral life is. They think this is normal.
Prabhupāda: At least you should take our books, that "This is our statement. Defense is. You first of all read this; then give your judgment."
Prabhupāda: Then he has to follow you because by taking your instruction I shall stop following others; that means I'll have to follow you. So what is the benefit? Instead of following others, I have to follow you? My following is there. That is not stopped.
Satsvarūpa: They claim they don't want to be leaders, but actually they do.
Prabhupāda: That means rascal. What he says, that is contradictory. That means rascal.
Pṛthu-putra: But he commit suicide at the end of his life, Camus, yes. He's a philosopher, a French philosopher. He commit suicide at the end of his life. Can you believe that?
Passerby: Jaya!
Prabhupāda: Jaya. (break)
Prabhupāda: That is your useless waste of time. Why? Therefore the war does not stop, unnecessary war, and such a big war, Kurukṣetra, in eighteen days it is finished. This is decision. And this is going on, continually war, strain, politics, diplomacy, lecture, Parliament. There is no finishing of war. There is no finishing. It will go on. Just like same example: If you keep the dogs as dogs, they'll going on barking. It will never finish. So this is the civilization of dog work. It is not human civilization. Therefore it is going on. War is not stopped. Where is stop? War is stopped? No. Going on. And it will go on because they are dogs. You cannot stop their barking. There are so many things. If we follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, then whole world will be... This is a fact. Now, how to implement it, that is another thing. It is a fact.
Hari-śauri: Because even the yavanas and mlecchas were following the kṣatriya system in Kṛṣṇa's time. Just like Jarāsandha. He had all the chivalrous respect of a kṣatriya even though he was a demon. But nowadays everybody's... No one is...
Satsvarūpa: No. But if they at least will chant and take some prasāda...
Prabhupāda: Chanting will go on. That is not stopped. But at the same time the varṇāśrama-dharma must be established to make the way easy.
Hari-śauri: Well, at least my own understanding was that the chanting was introduced in the age of Kali because varṇāśrama is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Because it will cleanse the mind. Chanting will not stop.
Hari-śauri: So therefore the chanting was introduced to replace all of the systems of varṇāśrama and like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it can replace, but who is going to replace it? The... People are not so advanced. If you imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura to chant, it is not possible.
Satsvarūpa: We tell them go on with your job but chant also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what Balavanta told them. He said, "You have your ideas, and we have ours. We're not stopping you from having yours, so why do you stop us from having ours? As far as we're concerned, we have as much evidence as you. Your authorities say you went, and our authorities say you didn't go. And anybody can make a movie to show that you went to Jupiter or Saturn or any other planet. Movies..., they can make King Kong. So we don't accept it, but we don't stop you from having your beliefs. But don't force us to say, 'Yes, you went to the moon.' " He answered nicely.
Prabhupāda: No, actually when there is some news about the moon planet, I personally did not go with him. So how shall I believe him? Come to practical point of view. I did not go. You publish something, news. Why I accept it? If you say that "I did not go," er, "I did not see," that is everything. We believe some paper, that's all. So why shall we not believe the Vedic literature?
Prabhupāda: But we may be dreaming, but factually what you have done? Ours may be dreaming, but yours, factually what you have done? You could not stop birth, death, old age, and disease. But I am suffering from this disease. You cannot stop it. I'll die. You cannot stop it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they have no answer for that.
Prabhupāda: Then? But we may be dreaming.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That point they'll press. They'll press that point, that... That's what they all think. When I talk to anybody I meet, they think that we are describing some fairy tale, Kṛṣṇaloka.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. What is your actual fact! (long pause) (breaks) But when they take it as a serious thing in life, oh, everyone will be happy. Everyone will be...
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is general program. And if there is some special, that we shall I am all right so long I am able to write. But I do not stop writing book unless I am not all right. So generally arrange like that, and specifically, we shall meet once daily, half an hour to one hour. There is no difficulty. But not continually people coming. That is bad.
Girirāja: I agree with that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, people respect that, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It is not unusual that someone should have a program like that. Rather, they take advantage of your very, you know, compassion and mercy, but they used to come two or three hours every evening and sit.
Devotee: They'll appreciate it more. Now you are working on Tenth Canto, so you can stop seeing other people. They'll appreciate that. (break)
Prabhupāda: I think I shall be able to work from today. Now I have got very nice place, full freedom. So there will be no difficulty.
Girirāja: Actually, even coming at seven in the morning, you can begin that after some time if you want to rest more.
Prabhupāda: What is that, seven?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are after the court, after the judges. We are not after anyone. We are after one: Kṛṣṇa. That's all. For you, it is confirmed. We know what our duty is. For the last twelve years there were so many impediments. It did not stop us. There was so much harassment.
Mr. Koshi: Where? Here, in this country?
Prabhupāda: Not here, there.
Mr. Koshi: In the United States.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They were kidnapped, they were taken by force, and so on, so on. So many times.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They still can.
Prabhupāda: Can? The... How?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This court case has not stopped them from deprogramming. It has established... It's a precedent case, which makes it very difficult. But they can still try. In different states they are still pressing for other laws. It wasn't...
Prabhupāda: But the airport authorities, they're also coming favorably.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Gradually they'll come. We haven't got to be afraid of all, anything. That is the point.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And thereafter no one else died. After that, others did not die, probably because they were told that "Don't you do the same thing or you'll meet with the same fate. Unless you toe the line and... Then you will also be dealt with very severely." Because they're such big cheaters, they will not stop at anything. Killing to them is nothing.
Prabhupāda: Killing affair should not be regarded, criminal affair.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: They can kill even the president. Because they are meat-eaters, there is no mercy. What is mercy, they do not know. Vinā paśu-ghnāt. Paśu-ghna. Mercilessly they kill animals, and they become accustomed to merciless...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: That is Muhammadans' theory. They can do merciless thing.
Prabhupāda: But it does not stop.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. So I'm saying if it was going direct to Los Angeles it wouldn't have to go down. It could keep going. It would be like this, straight. So you'd save time.
Prabhupāda: Generally from London to New York, six hours. And from...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: New York to LA is about four and a half hours. That's ten and a half hours.
Prabhupāda: Ten hours.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I think, probably, London to Los Angeles would be about nine hours. That would be my guess.
Prabhupāda: So far I remember, London to Paris from, er, Paris to Los Angeles I went. Took about ten hours.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten hours. London might be closer...
Prabhupāda: Than Paris.
Prabhupāda: Viṣaya means eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. So these things are not forbidden altogether. But they're regulated just to make it favorable for executing my Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like eating, we should not eat just to satisfy the taste. We should eat only just to keep ourself fit for executing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Eating is not stopped, but it is regulated favorably. Similarly, mating. Mating is also not stopped. But the regulative principle is that you should marry and you should have sex life only for begetting Kṛṣṇa conscious children. Otherwise don't do it. So everything is regulated. There is also no question of stopping defense. Arjuna was fighting, defending, under the order of Kṛṣṇa. So everything is there. Nothing is stopped. It is simply adjusted for executing our Kṛṣṇa consciousness favorably. Viṣaya chāḍiyā. We should not accept these viṣaya, these four principles of bodily demands, namely eating, sleeping, mating, and defending, for sense gratification. No. The politicians, they're fighting for sense gratification. They do not look after the welfare of the people. They fight for their political aggrandizement. That kind of fighting is forbidden. But when fight is necessity for defending people, that fighting should be taken. So we have to give up this principle of sense gratification, or sense gratificatory process.
| Page Title: | Not stop (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | MadhuGopaldas, RupaManjari, Visnu Murti |
| Created: | 30 of May, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=82, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 82 |