Not pure devotees (Conv and Letters)

Expressions researched:
"not a pure devotee" |"not accepted as pure devotees" |"not actually pure devotees" |"not pure devotee" |"not pure devotees"

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Revatīnandana: It's in Volume One, when Brahmā kidnaps the cowherd boys. When I went to Paris, they had gotten all confused. Someone was thinking that Brahmā, Lord Brahmā is not a pure devotee, because...

Prabhupāda: In one sense, not. In one sense.

Revatīnandana: By his behavior sometimes...

Prabhupāda: No, no, behavior... Because he is in the material world, he wants to lord it over. But a pure devotee has no such desire.

Haṁsadūta: But at the same time, he appeared as Ṭhākura Haridāsa in this world. So Brahmā, he appears as Ṭhākura Haridāsa with Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Prabhupāda: But Brahmā, it does not mean Brahmā cannot be pure devotee.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (1): But what should be the first step to become a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Yes, dadāti. That I have already explained. Dadāti. He must give. Give. Everyone goes to God to beg, "God, give us our daily bread." But one must go to God to give Him. If I do not give bread to Kṛṣṇa, he will be starving. This is devotee's mentality. Yaśodāmāyī, Yaśodāmāyī is thinking, Kṛṣṇa, "If I do not feed Kṛṣṇa well, my child will die." This is devotion. Otherwise everyone is asking from Kṛṣṇa. But Yaśodā-mā is thinking that "If I do not maintain Kṛṣṇa properly, He will die." Therefore he (she) is always trying to supply everything, mākhana, miśri. So real love begins when you try to give God. Everyone is trying to take from God, "Oh father, give us our daily bread." This is not pure devotee. This is good because he has approached God, but this is not devotion. It is not devotion, it is..., means business "God, give me something, then I will love you." Is it not?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...every payasā you should spend for Kṛṣṇa. Not that "Kṛṣṇa is giving money. Let us squander it as much as we like." Then there will be scarcity. (break) What is that?

Jayapatākā: This is a short cut.

Prabhupāda: Oh, all right. (break) ...pūjyante dhanya yatra sucancitam (?), "Where a rascal is not worshiped, where foodstuff is kept very carefully," and dam-patyoḥ kalaha nāsti, "and when there is no fight between husband and wife, or family-wise," tatra śrīḥ svayam āgataḥ, "there goddess of fortune is always present." Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the principle given by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, the greatest politician and moralist. Mūrkha means who is not pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. He's a mūrkha or mūḍha. Not that ABCD learned. ABCD learned is no use. And another śloka, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says who is learned man. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu: "One who does not think of any illicit sex life." Mātṛvat... Every woman-mother. Except his married wife, every woman is mother. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-loṣṭravat "And others' money, just like garbage." Nobody touches. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, and ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu: "And one who sees like himself all other living entities, he's paṇḍita, he's learned." Not by MA, Ph.D. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...yaḥ paśyati. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. (break) ...nihāram iva bhā... It is called nihāra. As long, as soon as the sun becomes strong, immediately, everything finished. Just see. This... What is called fog, or...?

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: When you are not thinking, the, the thought automatically comes.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not bhakti. You cannot think of that "God may do like this." No.

Dr. Patel: No, no. God does like that. Why He do?

Prabhupāda: No, you say that "You order Kṛṣṇa what you think."

Dr. Patel: I don't say you order. You... Automatically He fulfills your desire. There is no question of your ordering.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we should be desireless.

Dr. Patel: Desireless, yes. But desireless...

Prabhupāda: Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). That is bhakti. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam. Anyābhilāṣitā means "As God desires, let it happen." Not according to my desire. That is bhakti. As soon as you impose your desire, that is not bhakti. Why should you impose your desire? God is ready to fulfill the desire of His devotee immediately. He's so ready. But a devotee never desires. He does not like to bring God to fulfill His desires. No, that is not a pure devotee.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Artha-darśanam.

Dr. Patel: Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. When you have perfect knowledge of the tattva jñāna.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is tattva-jñāna. This is jñāna. This is jñāna. Basic principle of jñāna is ananya-bhakti-yogena. That is the basic principle of jñāna. Then other things will automatically come.

Dr. Patel: Ajñānaṁ yad ato 'nyathā.

Prabhupāda: Therefore... Therefore in other place in Bhāgavata: harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. If one is not pure devotee of the Lord, he has no good qualification. That is not possible. Because here is also same thing. The basic principle is devotion. If that is lacking, then all this show, humbug, it has no meaning.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Devotees: Jaya, Prabhupāda! Haribol!

Prabhupāda: Yes, done grand style because I strictly follow the instruction of my Guru Mahārāja, that's all. Otherwise I have no strength. I have not played any magic. Did I? Any gold manufacturing? (laughter) Still, I have got better disciples than the gold-manufacturing guru.

Yaśodānandana: Before you came, many gurus came, but they did not make any pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: How they can? He is not pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. How he can do? Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nāhe nāma pracāra: "Without being empowered by Kṛṣṇa nobody can turn a person to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa." It is not... Artificially, you cannot make. He may make show of gold manufacturing, but he cannot make a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

These are the definitions. One who is completely free from all sinful activities, they can become pure devotee. So even after becoming free from sinful activities, if one has got some motive, then he is also not pure devotee. Pure devotee means without any material motive: "God is great. I am His subordinate. I must love God. I must render service to God." This is pure devotee. And if I go to God, "Please give me my bread," that is not pure devotee, because he has got some purpose. As soon as his purpose is fulfilled, he may turn nondevotee.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, he is not pure devotee.

Devotee (1): He's not.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who is in the material world, he is not pure devotee. He has to become a pure devotee. But there are pure devotees. They come. They are not subjected to all this. They come for the deliverance of the fallen souls. They are above Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva.

Devotee (2): So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, isn't Lord Brahmā the original spiritual master in our sampradāya?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But we should take that it was his līlā to show that "Even I am subjected. How much you should take risk here." We should take like that because he's our guru. We should not take him that he was subjected to lusty desires, but he made a show that "Even I am also subjected." And he gave up this, changed the body for that.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Indian guest: Rabindranath Tagore and all these big people, they were not pure devotees, but...

Prabhupāda: They're big lions, that's all. And they are praised by the small cats and dogs. (laughter) (break) ...Rabindranath Tagore's Gitanjali he indirectly praises, "I love you," but he does not mention whom he loves. He does not know who is the lovable object. You have read his Gitanjali?

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes when we're reading Bhāgavatam about the prajāpatis... They are such exalted persons.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They are no ordinary person.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yet sometimes they behave in such a way that is...

Prabhupāda: That is... After all, they are living entity, conditioned. They are also conditioned. They are not liberated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not pure devotees.

Prabhupāda: No. They want enjoyment, material.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Still, they're entrusted with very big posts.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: But Lord Brahmā, he's a prajāpati.

Prabhupāda: He is the chief prajāpati.

Satsvarūpa: Isn't he a pure devotee?

Prabhupāda: No.

Satsvarūpa: And yet he composed the Brahma-saṁhitā.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is devotee, not to the topmost extent.

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Satsvarūpa: Sometimes devotees say, "Then how come he's the head of our sampradāya if he's not a pure devotee?"

Prabhupāda: It doesn't require. He is a devotee. That's all right. There are grades of devotee, but on the whole, a devotee is very exalted person. Just like gopīs. Nobody can be compared with the gopīs. There are so many grades of devotees, but they are ultimate. And amongst the gopīs, Rādhārāṇī. So there is no comparison, no more... Even Kṛṣṇa is defeated there. Kṛṣṇa became Caitanya Mahāprabhu to understand the devotion of Rādhārāṇī. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (break) (About something by the path:) ...queen. Elizabeth? No. Queen or king?

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Kīrtanānanda: A disciple wants to take the aid of Viṣṇu for serving the spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: Hah. That is nice. That is for curing Viṣṇu's representative. When we were in danger, there was so much obstruction for constructing the temple, and we prayed to Kṛṣṇa that it should stopped. We prayed to Kṛṣṇa, "Please give your protection." That is for Viṣṇu's purpose. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā, arto 'rthārthī jijñāsur: when one is in distress, he comes to Kṛṣṇa. So that is not pure bhakti. Pure bhakti means, "I shall not take a farthing from Kṛṣṇa; I shall give everything to Kṛṣṇa." That is pure. "I shall not take any return from Kṛṣṇa." Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "I am not a merchant, that for my service I take some return for it." No. But sometimes when, since we are not pure devotees, we have no other alternative than to beg Kṛṣṇa for some material benefit. That is also good. They have said, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ, sukṛtinaḥ, that pious. Although they are not pure devotee, but they are pious. But the duṣkṛtinaḥ, they do not approach Him. That is the difference.

catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ

janāḥ sukṛtino'rjuna

arto 'rthārthī jijñāsur

jñānī ca bharatarṣabhā

(BG 7.16)

They are also good, pious. And one who does not go to Viṣṇu for any reason, they are most sinful. Here, although he goes to Viṣṇu for some material benefit, he is pious. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Those who are impious, sinful, they do not go. (comes to a part of beach covered by waves) So I will have to jump like this?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The bhakta, he does not desire anything. Therefore peacefulness is for him, because he does not desire anything. He does not ask God anything. That is śūnyam. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (BRS 1.1.11)—no motive. That "I am becoming a devotee for this purpose"—no, that is not pure devotee. "I am eternal servant of God, so it is my duty to serve Him, that's all." That is peace. And so long he'll desire, then he'll not have any peace. That is not possible.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: But that buddhi-yoga which we have left undone in the previous birth, God with His mercy gives you that buddhi...

Prabhupāda: Buddhi-yoga continues, continues. If it is unfinished... Unless that buddhi-yoga is complete, one is not allowed. One is not allowed. He remains within this material world, very opulent position. Position like Indra, Candra, Brahmā. They are devotees, but not pure devotees. They have got some tinge of material enjoyment. Therefore they are given big, big post. One has become Brahmā, one has become the king of heaven; one has become the king of moon planet, sun planet. They are not ordinary living being.

1947 to 1965 Correspondence

Letter to Ratanshi Morarji Khatau -- Bombay 5 August, 1958:

In the sloka No. 30 it is forbidden that a mundane person should not indulge in hearing Rasalila or one should not hear Rasalila from a mundane person. In your organization both the audience and the lecturer are mundane persons and their indulgence in the matter of Rasalila out of sheer foolishness will result in imitating Rudra who swallowed up an ocean of poison. There is nothing immorality in the transcendental activities of the lord neither it requires to be defended by any immoral man because simply by remembering the holy name of Krishna or by serving His lotus feet one can at once become a liberated person. (Bhag. 10/33/34) Besides that the result of reading or hearing the Rasalila in the devotional mood is stated (Bhag. 30/33/39) to become culminated in complete disappearance of the devotee's lust disease in the heart. Persons who are not pure devotees and must have therefore an impure heart full with dirty things of mundane affairs will not only try to defend Rasalila by interpretations or decry the dealings but also shall be ruined as by drinking poison a man goes to hell.

1968 Correspondence

Letter to Jayananda -- Montreal 17 August, 1968:

Yesterday, Mukunda and Gurudasa were telling me that the man known as Asoka Fakir, now living in San Francisco, is advertising himself that the members of our temple are all his disciples. This man has written me letter also, from which I can understand that he is a hodge-podge man. He is not a pure devotee of Krishna, neither his behavior is quite up to the standard. Therefore you should warn all our devotees not to mix with this man very intimately.

1969 Correspondence

Letter to Vrndavanesvari -- New Vrindaban 25 May, 1969:

Lord Caitanya says that factually all living entities are the servants of Krishna. This servitorship cannot be rendered from the material platform, because Krishna is not matter. He is Sat-Cit-Ananda Vigraha. Anyone trying to serve Krishna from the material platform of body, mind and intelligence cannot appreciate this fact. One has to become free from the contamination of matter, represented in gross and subtle forms as body, mind, intelligence and ego. Until then, one is not a pure devotee.

1970 Correspondence

Letter to Hamsaduta -- Los Angeles 23 January, 1970:

The next question: the body of a pure devotee is all spiritual and He is not different from His body. That is also a fact. The bodies of all living entities, even though they are not pure devotees, are not actually the bodies of the spirit soul. It is always separate from the spiritual body. The Vedic mantra confirm it by the sound vibration that this spirit soul is always nonattached with the material body. Therefore, we do not see the actual spiritual body of a pure devotee; but what we see, that is matter.