Prabhupāda: Yes. No, every country, every country. Now, just like you are highly educated. Your country could not give you service. You are coming here. And that is śūdra. One who cannot live independently, he is śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karyaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age, everyone is practically śūdra, because nobody can live independently. So we are producing mass śūdras. Therefore it is in chaotic condition. The Communist is the last word of the śūdras. The Communist philosophy is that "We are worker. We have all the power. We must have all the power." And that they are doing. And because they do not want to obey any authority, therefore they are denying existence of God. This is the tendency of the modern society. Not only they do not know what is God, and they are trying to disobey the orders of God. So practically there is no religion. And without religion human society is animal society. Dharmeṇa hīnā pasubhiḥ samānāḥ. "Human being without any ideas of religion, God, he is no better than animal." That is the difference between animal and human being. Animal eats, we eat; animal sleeps, we sleep; animal have sexual intercourse, we have; animal also defends, we also defend. These are common features. And what is the special feature? The special feature of human being—that he can understand what is God. So if he does not understand God, he is animal, because the distinction between animal and man is being avoided. So far other activities are concerned, they are the same as of human being and as of animal. But what is the distinction? The distinction is that in the human society there is an endeavor to understand God, and the animal society, there is no such endeavor. So when the so-called human society becomes devoid of God consciousness, it is animal society. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for raising the human society to the real platform of human society, not to keep them in the animal platform. Try to understand God and love Him. This is the substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So, yes?
Not know what is God (Conversations 1965 - 1977)
Expressions researched:
"cannot know what he is or what the Lord is"
|"not know what is god"
|"not know what is the supreme personality of godhead"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Paramahaṁsa: In Delhi, yes. That will be nice.
Prabhupāda: And who is thinking in that way...? We are thinking like that. Keep it covered.
Paramahaṁsa: On the table there?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Child talking and Prabhupāda says something in Hindi) Dr. Ghora (?), you can say. The aim should be saṁsiddhiḥ hari-toṣaṇam. But if we don't care for this proposition... They do not know what is God, neither we don't want to satisfy Him, "He may be satisfied or not satisfied. Let us go on with our business." (Hindu)
Indian man (1): A lot of dangers will be there. We'll be putting ourself into trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are in trouble. Even last war, when the trouble was too much, they began to go to the church. Even Churchill. And one gentleman—he is my Godbrother in Germany—he told me, after this war many German men and women became atheist. Everyone went to the church and prayed. Especially women prayed for return of their husband, brother, father. And nobody returned. So they thought, "There is no God. So forget about all these things." People became atheist. So this risky civilization is going on. They don't want to know what is God, neither they want to satisfy Him. And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just the opposite, that "Here is God. You satisfy Him." That's all. "Never mind what you are, but by your occupational duty you satisfy Him. That is perfection." This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And this is taught in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa ultimately said this: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). In the beginning He said, yat karoṣi yat juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad arpaṇam: (BG 9.27) "Do it for Me." Yat karoṣi. It doesn't matter what you are doing. And very good work or bad work or anything, when He says, yat karoṣi, means "Whatever you are doing, do it, but the result give Me." Kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. This is His desire. And at last again He said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, and if somebody would say that "Simply I have to satisfy You? Then I have to satisfy others also.
Prajāpati: Practically all the theologians are aligned with one denomination or another, and they're like company men to the big churches, and they're afraid of admitting they do not know about God because they're afraid somebody will leave their camp and come to ours. We say we know about God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We say frankly that we know God, His father's name, His address, everything. Let anyone come and challenge. He cannot say that "No, this is not God," because he has not approached God. He does not know what is God. How he can challenge us that "This is not God"? Suppose we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as God, so how anyone can challenge? Because he has not approached God. He is simply speculating.
Prajāpati: And not even on his own. He's simply approaching other speculators.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prajāpati: One speculator simply approaches other speculators.
Prabhupāda: So how they can say, "This is not God"? Is it possible to say? We say, "Here is Kṛṣṇa, God." Why not discuss this point for our preaching work. Call all the sannyāsīs.
Śrutakīrti: Call the sannyāsīs?
Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) Theologician. You know?
Śrutakīrti: He's theologian?
Prabhupāda: You know?
Prabhupāda: It requires elucidation. "Complete whole" means, just like your body is complete whole, and there are so many other things, there are so many holes in the body, there are so many hairs on the body, there are so many hairs on the head, so many fingers, eyes, ears—so many things—but the body is a complete unit, working as a complete machine. And there are so many things. Similarly, the whole cosmos is complete, exactly like this body is a machine. Similarly the whole cosmos is a big machine. It is complete. One sun is there and keeping everything complete. The day and night, the seasonal changes, the equator, the temperature, the moonlight, the other planets, we living beings, the vegetables—everything is complete by God. And because the sun is there. Similarly, this body, machine, is complete. And the soul is there, it is working nicely. The body is also a creation, and the universe is also a creation, and the brain which has created these things, He is complete. Therefore He has created these complete units. That is the idea. Pūrṇam idaṁ (Iso Invocation). Pūrṇaḥ means complete. And because He is complete, the Creator, He has no defect; therefore He can create everything complete. Pūrṇam idaṁ, pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And He is so complete that pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya, from the complete, if you take the whole complete, still He is complete. Here is a glass of water; I am drinking. Drinking part by part. And when it is finished, the water is finished, no more complete. But He is so complete, that just like the sun, the temperature is being distributed for million and millions of years, still it is full of temperature. Here, unless the electric power is there, it is not complete. But there is power in the sunshine. It is a reservoir of so much temperature and light, that in history millions and millions of years it is distributing, the seasonal changes are going on, the green foliage is coming again, the snow and rain is coming, so many things are going on account of temperature. Any machine is rolling, just like as soon as there is power the machine is rolling. In all machines, your bodily machine, my bodily machine, and electric machines and other powered machines—everything is going on. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And in spite of taking so much energy from the sun, it is still full of light and energy. This is one of the creations of the Supreme. Now how much perfect is the Supreme? Its one of the creations, sun, is maintaining the whole universe. And there are many millions of universes, and each of them has got a sun to conduct the business. And all these suns are created by somebody. How much complete He is? You can just imagine. That is God. God is not such a cheap thing. People become God, "I am God." You are a nonsense rascal. What you can do? These are bluff. They do not know what is God.
Prabhupāda: Understand, but suppose... Are you Hebrew?
Mother: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So what is the nature of God? Can you explain?
Mother: No, I can't explain.
Prabhupāda: Then what do you know about God? You do not know what is God.
Mother: I believe in God.
Prabhupāda: Believing, that is one thing. Believe in father. Everyone has got father. But if you do not know who is your father, what does he do, then that is not perfect knowledge. It is a fact: without father, nobody is born. So even your child has not seen who is her father, but it is a fact that there is a father. But she or he must know who is he, what is his nature, what does he do. And that is perfect knowledge. Simply to know "I have got a father" is not perfect knowledge. I must know who is that father, what does he do, where does he live. That is perfect knowledge. Otherwise it is assumed that every man has got a father. Without father, how you can come into existence? That's a fact. But if he does not know who is actually his father, that is imperfect knowledge. What do you think, the nature of God?
Sister: I think He's just something all-knowing, you know...
Prabhupāda: Old?
Prabhupāda: Validity... Any religion which is seeking after God, that is valid. If any religion does not obey God, does not know God, that is cheating. That is not religion. Yes.
Journalist: How would you say this godlessness is...
Prabhupāda: Godlessness is one does not know what is God. And just like you know me. You have come to me. You know I am a person, I am talking, I have written so many books. This is knowing me. Similarly, one must know what is God, what is His feature, what does He do, what does He teach, what law He gives. This is knowing God. Simply to understand, "Oh, well, that is God. Let Him remain at His place, and let me do whatever I like," that is not understanding of God. You must know God just like you must know your father. If you are interested with your father's property, then you must know your father, who is your father.
Journalist: How is this godlessness showing itself in our society?
Prabhupāda: Godlessness means foolishness because...
Journalist: Is liquor... Too much liquor and self-indulgence?
Prabhupāda: There are details. There are so many things. The total is rascaldom and foolishness. Godlessness means rascaldom and foolishness.
Journalist: Ras...? Ras...?
Prabhupāda: But that requires faith. One who does not know what is God and what is protection, how he can take to it? He depends on his own energy. That is karmīs. He wants to happy by his own energy not only in this life but also next life, by acting very piously, wants to be promoted in the heavenly planets. That is fact. One can go. But that is on account of his own labor. But here the bhaktas, they are taken care of, the Supreme Lord. So just like child. He doesn't care how he will live comfortably. But the father takes care. That is the position of bhakta. The karmīs, they are taking care of themselves. But the devotees, they are taken care of by the Supreme. That is difference. What is that?
Jayatīrtha: This is the preliminary outline for the college course that Dr. Judah is going to be helping us with in Berkeley. This describes the basic purposes of the college and describes some of the courses that we'll be offering.
Prabhupāda: Our books?
Jayatīrtha: Yes, there's a course in each book.
Bahulāśva: This is what Dr. Judah belongs to, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Prabhupāda: Religion means primarily to know God and love Him. That is religion. And nobody knows God, and what to speak of loving Him? Nobody is trained up how to know God and how to love Him. They are satisfied by going to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." That also not everyone goes. So the Communist says that "You don't go to the church. Bread we shall supply." So poor innocent persons, they get bread elsewhere, so they do not go to church. But nobody is serious to understand what is God and how to love Him. Nobody is serious. Therefore in Bhāgavatam, it is said, it is cheating religion. I profess some religion, but I do not know what is God and how to love Him. That's all. So that type of religion is cheating religion. Religion means to know God and love Him. But generally, a man does not know what is God and what to speak of loving Him? So therefore that is cheating religion. That is not religion. But so far Christian religion is concerned, there is ample chance of understanding God. But they do not care for it. Take for example, the commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But in the Christian world, best slaughterhouses are maintained. So how they can become God conscious? They disobey the commandments, do not care for Lord Jesus Christ's order. So this is not only in Christian religion. Every religion, it is going on. It is simply rubber stamp. "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." And none of them do know what is God and how to love Him.
Prabhupāda: Who teaches these things—how to know God and how to love Him—he is spiritual master. Otherwise bogus, rascal bogus. Sometimes they mislead that "I am God." Poor people, they do not know what is God, and a rascal proposes, "I am God," and they accept it. Just like in your country they elected Nixon president and again drag him. That means they did not know who is really bona fide president, elected somebody, and again they had to business of dragging out. Similarly, people are foolish. Any rascal comes. He says, "I am God." They accept. And again they accept another. This is going on. So one must be serious student to understand what is God and how to love Him. That is religion. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. That we are teaching. That is the difference between others and our... We are presenting Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the science, how to know Him. The Bhagavad-gītā is there, Bhāgavata is there. Not bogus. Authorized. Therefore this is the only institution which can teach how to know God and how to love Him. Two business. There is no third business. It is not our business to ask God to give us our necessities. We know God gives necessities to everyone, even one who has no religion. Just like cats and dogs. They have no religion. They do not know what is religion. But still, the cats and dogs are supplied with necessities of life. So why we should bother Kṛṣṇa, asking Him, "Give us our daily bread"? He is supplying already. Our business is how to love Him. That is religion. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: "That is first-class religion which teaches how to love God." And that love—not for any material motive: "God, You give me this. Then I will love." No. Ahaitukī. Love means without any personal profit. If I love God for some profit that is business. That is not love. Ahaituky apratihatā. And such love of God cannot be checked by any material cause. In any condition, one can learn how to love God. It is not conditional, that "I am poor man. How shall I love God? I have got so many things to do." No, it is not like that. Poor, rich or young or old, black or white, there is no impediment. If one wants to love God, he can love God.
Father: What is it that Kṛṣṇa consciousness has that offers people so much more than other religions do?
Prabhupāda: This is religion. I have already explained that religion means to become lover of God. That is religion. When there is no love of God, that is not religion. Religion means—I have already explained—to know God and to love Him. So if you do not know what is God, where is the question of loving Him? So that is not religion. It is going on in the name of religion. But religion means to know God and to love Him. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇitām (SB 6.3.19). Can you find out this verse? Give him. You don't find?
Nitai: Yes, 3.19.
Prabhupāda: Third Chapter, nineteen verse.
Prabhupāda: This is offering that you want to be religious, so you try to understand religious principles from God. Because if one is lawyer, if one wants to become a lawyer, he must learn laws which is given by the government. He cannot become a lawyer at home. Similarly, if you want to become religious, you must learn what is religion from God. You don't manufacture your own religion. That is not religion. This is the first principle. But if I do not know what is God, what is the order given by God, then what is religion? That is going on. Everyone is manufacturing his own religion. This is the modern method, that religion is private. Anyone can accept any type of religion. That is liberalism, is it not?
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just convince him.
Jayatīrtha: So do you understand? The idea is that this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is based on authority of the Vedas. And the Vedic literatures are coming directly from Kṛṣṇa. So we only accept it as truth what Kṛṣṇa says and we don't accept anybody's mental concoctions or speculations as being truth. And this is the problem with so many other religious movements today, that they depend on the interpretation or the...
Prabhupāda: Concoction.
Jayatīrtha: ...philosophy of some ordinary man. So this is the primary differential.
Prabhupāda: So if we don't admit Kṛṣṇa is the only God then you present who is only God. You say me. Either you have to learn from me or I have to learn from you.
Prof. Hopkins: So to insist...
Prabhupāda: If you do not know what is God you cannot say, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." As soon as you say, "Kṛṣṇa is not God," that means you must know what is God. You present. But if you cannot present, you say, "No, I do not know God," then you cannot say, "Kṛṣṇa is not God."
Prof. Hopkins: All right.
Prabhupāda: So they are dogmatic. Dogmatically they are saying, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." He does not know God and he says, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." So what is this nonsense? You do not know God. How you can say Kṛṣṇa is not God?
Prof. Hopkins: I agree with you, I just... I want to get... (laughter) If we're dogmatic, we're on the same side.
Prabhupāda: We are not dogmatic. Those people who are talking us as dogmatic, he is dogmatic. He does not know God, and when God is presented before him, he says, "No, He is not God." That is dogmatic.
Prof. Hopkins: Would you... Do you feel that those who've had genuine religious, spiritual understanding would not have that kind of argument?
Prabhupāda: Then they are fools. They should stop all this education. This university should be broken. (laughter) Because they are producing only fools. That's all. They should stop this education.
Bahulāśva: Donate all these buildings to you.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. The buildings will remain there, but they will be finished. What is this education? They do not know what is God, what is soul, and what is the meaning of education? Simply bodily concept of life like cats and dogs, so what is the use of education? They remain cats and dogs. That is no value.
Bahulāśva: They cannot live happily either or peaceful.
Prabhupāda: Because they are, basically they are mistaken, how they can be happy? Basically they are mistaken. How you can be happy? They do not know what is happiness.
Paramahaṁsa: As a matter of fact, that's the same thing my father said. He says that "Because you believe in God, he says you don't have to fear death." He says, "But I have nothing to look forward to."
Prabhupāda: So that is also the position of a stone. So you better remain a stone, but I am life. The stone does not believe in anything and still it is happy. So you remain a stone. I am not stone; I am life.
Jayādvaita: There's a verse in Caitanya-caritāmṛta that without Lord Caitanya, there is no life. Acaitanya.
Prabhupāda: Hm, yes. Acaitanya, yes.
Bahulāśva: So this dark planet, then, is closer?
Prabhupāda: Why there should be different...? President is one, and everyone knows he is one. Why there be lots... That means they do not know. If there is... Just like now Mr. Ford is president. So nobody can say, "Now Mr. John is president." Mr. Ford is president. You cannot say, "Mr. John is president," "Mr. such and such is president," "I suggest," "I..." "It may be like that." Why may be? Actually Mr. Ford is president. And one who says, "May be like this," he does not know who is the president. As soon as he says, "God may be like this," that means he does not know what is God. So there cannot be different description of God. God is one. One must know who is that God. That is education. Now, we are teaching that, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." Now it is up to you to test whether Kṛṣṇa is God or not God. But if you know what is God, then you have to accept Kṛṣṇa.
Professor: If you know who is God, accept it?
Prabhupāda: If you know what is God, then you will accept Kṛṣṇa is God.
Professor: Oh.
Prabhupāda: If you do not know actually what is God, then you will deny. Or if you deny, then present who is God, if you know. Then you will have to say, "I do not know what is God." So anyone who is trying to study religion and God, they should try to understand our philosophy, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Satsvarūpa: The professor says they have the Bhagavad-gītā in his college.
Prabhupāda: Oh. You have got this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is?
Prabhupāda: Well then go and marry there. If the state of California allows that, then they all can go to California.
Nityānanda: The general public objects to that... It's very...
Prabhupāda: Public we don't care. We... What is the public? We have got our own public here. So pub... What is the public? All rascals. They are killing cows and drinking and topless dance, bottomless dance. What is the value of this public? All rascals. I don't give any importance to this class of public, only after sense gratification, that's all. They have no ideals of life. They do not know what is God. What is the value of this public? Mūḍhas, they have been described, mūḍhas. You know the meaning of mūḍha?
Devotee (1): Ass.
Prabhupāda: Ass. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ paramaṁ mama.
Nityānanda: The householders on our farm, they should cooperate and produce the food centrally or every householder should produce his own food independently?
Prabhupāda: No. Why they are living in a community centrally? Community means work everything for the community.
Devotee (1): Some men can cultivate the fields, some men can take care of the cows, some men... They can (indistinct) responsible.
Prabhupāda: No, it is service (?).
Indian man (3): Is there any other books before Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Vedas there are. Yes. But what is the purpose of Veda? The purpose of Veda is to understand God. If you do not understand God... Just like the Ārya-samājīs. They are concerned with Vedas, they say. But they do not know what is God. They say, "I am God." This is their knowledge. If he is God, who is going to worship him? Nobody comes to kick on his face, and still, he says, "I am God." This is going on. How you become God? Who worships you? But still, he will say, "I am God." You see. Such foolishness is going on. Ārya. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement that they think, "I am God." Just see. Everyone can think like that. Then what is the use of advancement? This is going on. (break)...sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. Veda means knowledge. So the ultimate knowledge is to know God. But if you do not know God, then what is the value of your knowledge?
Indian man (3): Quite right.
Prabhupāda: If you say like a rascal that "I am God," is that knowledge?
Indian man (3): It's no knowledge at all.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Still they claim they are advanced Aryans.
Indian lady: And Vallabhācārya?
Dr. Patel: Jñānavan māṁ prapadyante. That is knowledge. Jñāna means knowledge. That knowledge is the Supreme.
Prabhupāda: But that knowledge means actually jñānavān. Otherwise it is false knowledge. māyāyapahṛta-jñāna. If you do not know what is God, then what is the meaning of your knowledge?
Bhāgavata: You explain in the Gītā that
- bahunam janmanam ante
- jñānavān mam prapadyante
- vasudevaḥ sarvam iti
- sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ
- (BG 7.19)
Prabhupāda: (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is knowledge. Therefore so many mahātmās, sādhus, yogis, they are all useless, all useless because they have no bhakti. Simply artificially cheating people. (break) This is a society of cheaters and cheated. If you want to be cheated, there are many cheaters who will come and cheat you. That's all.
Bhāgavata: Just like the Guru Maharaj-ji. Now the mother is denouncing. She is saying he is no more qualified to be Bhagavān. Now his brother, he is Bhagavān.
Prabhupāda: That's all, anyway, a third class.
Dr. Patel: I think we should not talk about this. Talk something about Bhagavad-gītā and Bhagavat. Then, sir?
Prabhupāda: Yes. These people are third-class men. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: He is a first-class Carvaka, he is.
Bhāgavata: The dog is also trying to defend himself against the Lord.
Prabhupāda: No. That is not the question. Question is anyone who does not know what is God, he is a Carvaka, that's all. Mūḍha nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param ayayam. He's a Carvaka. That's all. The same bodily concept. Russian, American, Chinese. Then? Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).
Indian man (3): They are innocent. They are not...
Dr. Patel: Innocent?
Prabhupāda: No, they are not innocent; they are stupid. (laughter) They are not innocent. They will never agree...
Indian man (3): There are so many Indians, they are also not...
Dr. Patel: No, they are also like that.
Prabhupāda: Huh? The simple thing explained in the Bhagavad-gītā... Simple thing explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, asmin dehe dehinām: "Within this body there is the proprietor." So they do not understand it. Huh?
Indian man (3): That comes after, after...
Indian man (4): Guru, you should go? Then only perfect knowledge he will get.
Prabhupāda: Our plan is the best because before meeting such catastrophes, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the best. They are seeing the catastrophe, but they have no way to escape. That is the difference between them and ourselves. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...said that "There is no need of God, but there is need of girl, of a girl." He said that. Then what is the difference between a scientist and a dog? The dog also does not know what is God, but another female dog he wants. Huh? What is the difference? Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Then it is proved that he is no better than animal. The animal requires another opposite sex, but he does not know God. Then where is the difference? (break)
Brahmānanda: You know that the Detroit house, the house in Detroit? The president, he wrote in his letter. I neglected to ask you. He wanted to have a name for that temple.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Brahmānanda: So Ambarisa prabhu says that he was thinking of New Keśighāṭa, because it's situated near the water.
Prabhupāda: Keśighāṭa we have already given in New Vṛn...
Ambarisa: It's right on a river. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...name that... Kṛṣṇa... They brought the assembly house from heaven and located in Dvāraka. There is a name like that. I shall give you the name.
Brahmānanda: (break) ...robi. You can give a name for Nairobi mandir.
Harikeśa: So actually the one thing that makes Kṛṣṇa consciousness different from other religious processes is the practical application of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Full knowledge, perfect knowledge. And other religious systems, they have no knowledge. They say of God something but they do not know what is God. We know what is God and who is God. That is the difference.
Devotee (3): But they have no pure devotee in which to put their faith.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee (3): They have no one in which to put their faith.
Prabhupāda: Whatever they may be, put because they do not know God, therefore it is cheating. Just see, India's capital and so dirty thing.
Harikeśa: You were saying about Eisenhower and Nehru?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: Nehru was trying to hide the villages.
Prabhupāda: But any intelligent man can understand. Any foreigner who will come will understand how India is poverty-stricken by this picture. (?)
Harikeśa: It seems like the strongest preaching point or platform is the presence of a pure soul.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pañca-draviḍa: Then he says, "There is a God, but all these stories about Him and His activities, they are just imaginations."
Prabhupāda: That's right. You do not know what is God, after all. "There may be." Then who is going to hear you? You do not know. Your statement is also another story.
Pañca-draviḍa: I am not a scientist.
Prabhupāda: No, no. The scientists, if they say "There may be God," that means he's a rascal. Scientist means, whatever he will say, that is accurate. That is scientist. What is the difference between a layman and scientist? That is the difference. The scientist will say what is actual fact. That is scientist.
Pañca-draviḍa: They only accept...
Prabhupāda: That is not scientist, that he..., "maybe, perhaps..." That is not scientist.
Pañca-draviḍa: Well, they only accept what they can confirm by experimentation.
Prabhupāda: That means their experiment is not perfect. Their observation is not perfect-vague idea. So how he can become a scientist? That is no scientist.
Pañca-draviḍa: What is the position of one who accepts God, that there is.... (break) (end)
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, once you told a man, "What is your definition of God?" And he could not answer. And you answered him that "God means the Supreme Being." And you said, "You are saying you are God, but you don't even know the definition of God. So how you are God?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you do not know what is God, how can you say that "Here is God"? You cannot say. (break) One who is after God, he'll accept our philosophy. But the, those who are rogues, who want to banish God or kill God, they'll not accept. So we have to avoid such persons.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Persons who are too much sinful...
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...they can't give up their sinful activities even after hearing about Kṛṣṇa, are they in the envious class or the innocent class?
Prabhupāda: They're envious. Sinful means that is the cause of their becoming envious. (break) ...law. Religion means the order of God. Simple definition. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Just like law, we keep to the right or left, order of the government. One who obeys this law, he's good citizen. One who disobeys, he's rascal. Similarly, dharma means the order of God. So one who obeys the order of God, he is really religious. One who does not, he's rogue, duṣkṛtina. This is simple. (break).... Christian. Now, what is the order of God? The Ten Commandments. If one abides by the Ten Commandments, he's really Christian. Take Buddhism; if he abides by the order of Lord Buddha, then he's right. Take Muhammadans even. So it may be one is Muhammadan, one is Christian, or one is Buddhist, one is Hindu, but if he abides by the order of God, then he's religious. Otherwise bogus. We are concerned Vedic religion. Our conclusion is that to approach Lord Viṣṇu. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. This is Vedic, Ṛg-mantra. Or Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). If one abides by this, then he's religious, or really religious. If he does not obey, then where is the religion? There is no religion. The instruction is here. One has to understand the philosophy from Bhagavad-gītā rightly and appreciate, himself, and preach. This is wanted.
Prabhupāda: That there was something (indistinct), one picture (indistinct). There was competition that painter has to paint a picture that there is (indistinct) of the mother with child, so what would be the facial expression. So the painter has to express the feelings (indistinct). That one painter he painted a picture of the mother, intimate picture. (indistinct). So that is real life. You may paint (indistinct) expression, that is artificial. The real thing, the mother cannot see it. That mother, that is (indistinct). It is (indistinct). So how the mother can see it? There is (indistinct) being killed. So it is not very easy to (indistinct) cover the mother, there is no question of him painting so many rascal expressions. That is (indistinct). All (indistinct) in the name of religion. All rascals. All rascal. Sinful. They do not know what is God, they do not know (indistinct) what is the meaning of love. Simply rubber-stamp: "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." They are interested only in sense gratification. There cannot be any religion. So this cheating type of religion is rejected. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavaḥ. All cheating type of religion is kicked out. This is no religion at all. All bogus. Is that religion, (indistinct) the instruction of Christ, (indistinct) kill Him. Is that religion? And they are showing how He was killed.
Devotee (3): One, one man once said that to carry, to glorify the cross is like they..., glorifying the revolver.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (3): If the husband is shot, then you take the gun, and you worship the gun.
Prabhupāda: That is.... Yes. Very good example. Are you, are you going to some church (indistinct).
Woman: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Don't misunderstand. It is.... Religion, it means a kind of faith. Just like you are Christian, I am Hindu. So you have faith in Christian religion, I have faith in Hin.... That is another thing. But this is.... We understand religion in a different way according to English dictionary. But real religion means the law given by God. This is the shortcut definition of religion. And if you do not know what is God, and if you do not know what is His law, then what is the meaning of religion? There is no meaning of religion. If blindly, if I have some faith in some dogmas and ritualistic ceremonies, that is not religion. Religion means the science by which you can understand God and the law of God. That is religion. It is not the kind of faith. Just like state laws. You may have faith or no faith. The state law is law; you have to obey it. Just like I have come in America. In our country, the street law is "Keep to the left." So I have come to America, you say "Keep to the right." If I say, "No, I have no faith in this 'Keep to the right.' " No, I must obey. That is law. Similarly, religion means you may have faith or no faith, but you must obey. It is a must. It is not optional. That is religion. That, I explained it many times that (indistinct) means characteristic. Just like everyone of us, we are servant. So, the living entity is servant. He may have faith or no faith, he must be a servant. And if you don't become servant of God, then you become servant of dog. That is your advancement of civilization. When there is no service for God, just like here we have got service for God, there is no question of serving dog. But when we forget service of God, then automatically we become service of dog. But service.... I am servant, that's a fact. And voluntarily keep a dog and serve him. They have no master, then I keep a master, dog, cat. You call it by the name, pet. What is a pet? I do service, that's all. So this is our advancement of civilization. We have refused to serve God, and you voluntarily accept to serve dog.
Prabhupāda: We are correcting-Kṛṣṇa, or God, then everything will be all right. Otherwise failure. Now you American people you write, "In God We Trust." But if I ask you "What is God?" you cannot reply. Then how do you trust in God? Blindly. If we trust in God, we must know that God is actually the only trustworthy person. Then if I put my trust in Him, that is sensible. But if I do not know what is God, no idea, and if we simply write, "In God We Trust," what is this? This is slogan. But actually people are becoming godless. In schools, colleges, they are prohibiting, "Don't talk of God." Do they not?
Jayatīrtha: That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And in the bills they are writing the.... Why this hypocrisy? Why this hypocrisy? In the schools, colleges, you are forbidding, "Don't talk of God," and on the bills you are writing, "In God We Trust." That means if the bill is not paid, don't be dissatisfied, you trust in God. (laughs) Although I'm giving you a piece of paper, don't hesitate to take it. Trust in God, it will be paid. They write, "I promise to pay," but people may not have faith in this word. Actually, I'm paying you hundred rupees—or a thousand rupees-worth currency note, but actually it is paper. But only on faith and trust I'm accepting it, it is one thousand dollars. That much. In last war, the Germany, marks note were thrown in the street. And the bunch of note, taken to the confectioner, "Give me a piece of bread," There is no bread; they throw away. It happened, actually. So these notes are accepted on the understanding that the government will pay. But time may be there when government may be not able to pay. And it has become practically experienced in the last war. So everything should be done scientifically. If we say that in God we trust, then we must know what is God, whether actually we can put our faith and trust in Him, whether He is trustworthy, what is that God. This science should be introduced. There is science; we are preaching that science. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to teach Kṛṣṇa science, science of Kṛṣṇa, science of God. So the government should take up, American government, and cooperate with us. Teach the people the science of God. Then it will be a great, benevolent welfare activity. Simply giving their money to the poor, to the needy, will not help them.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That will be rectified. Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā. Huh? What is that? Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk (BG 9.30). When one has come to the fire, some way or other, he'll be warm, gradually. That is the.... He has come to the right path. (break) ...kāmād bhayāt, krodhāt. Either.... Anyone who comes to Kṛṣṇa.... Just like gopīs, they were captivated. They were village girls. They did not know what is God, what is Brahman, nothing. But they were captivated: "Kṛṣṇa is very beautiful boy." That's all. Even they forgot their own husbands. (break) ...or other, we have to develop our intense love of Kṛṣṇa. Then life is perfect. (break) (in car) One who is accepting this body as self, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). They are making paper?
Devotee: Tar.
Prabhupāda: From tar, you find paper?
Viśvakarmā: Yes. All different types of packaging have (indistinct) as well.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They keep salt in here for...
Prabhupāda: Salt?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When it snows on the highways, trucks come and they pour salt so it keeps the snow melting. More friction on the road for the tires.
Prabhupāda: Wine and cigarettes, just like here you can purchase by slot. What is called?
Hari-śauri: Machine.
Prabhupāda: Yes, here is the ultimate knowledge, what is God. You do not know. You are still professing as professor, as learned scholar, but you do not know what is God. Also you write, "In God We Trust." What is this nonsense? Where is your professorship? You explain God. Suppose I am a layman. I am asking "Why you have written in the bill? Please let me know what is God." Do you know? Then where is your knowledge?
Devotee (3): But they say they are looking for it.
Prabhupāda: That means you are not in knowledge, and still you are a professor. You become a student like me. Why you are occupying the post of a professor? That means you are cheating. You are calling yourself as professor, the teacher, and you do not know? Give up this post; come to my position.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Immediately revolution.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Talk like sensible man. Don't cheat others, that you have no knowledge and still you say "I am professor." Why you are cheating people?
Kīrtanānanda: They say that real knowledge is to know that there is no such thing as absolute knowledge but simply this process of searching for knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That means you do not know seriously what is soul. You have simply an idea, but you do not know in detail. Just like they say, the Christians, "God is great." But they do not know who is God and what is the meaning of greatness. That they do not know. They accept this theoretically or religious sentimentally, "God is great." Just like your state says, "In God We Trust." As soon as I inquire what kind of trust and to whom, there is no reply. That means they do not know what is God, what is trust. As a matter of slogan they write, that's all. Even the state heads, and what to speak of the nonsense ordinary citizens. Seriously taking, it is very important question. They should have reply. But they do not know how to reply.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: With all of the situations that take place in the material world, they may not be able to see how God is actually active in the material world, that whether there's a war or whether...
Prabhupāda: Well, that you should.... Why you should remain in ignorance how God is acting? If you are serious about God, then you must know. Just like a statesman, he knows how government is acting. Ordinary man, he knows government is acting, but he does not know how government is acting. But advanced in knowledge, they know what is the constitution, how the government is acting. That is the difference. Therefore lawyer is appointed when there is some trouble. He can find out where is the defect. That is advancement of knowledge. (end)
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there are so many Christians, so many Jews, so many Mohammedan, and Hindus. Everyone is there. It is a question of understanding. So in the beginning if... But if he's serious to understand what is God, then he will accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. If he knows what is God, then he'll understand, "Here is God." If he remains in darkness, he does not know what is God, then how he'll understand Kṛṣṇa? He'll understand Kṛṣṇa as one of us. That's all. But if he knows what is God then he'll understand. Yes, here is God, Just like if a person knows what is gold, then anywhere gold, he'll understand, "Here is gold." It does not mean only gold, in certain shop only gold is available. But if he knows what is God, what is meaning of God, that he will find in Kṛṣṇa in fullness. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). The śāstra says how He is Bhagavān, what is Bhagavān. You should understand and see from the activities of Kṛṣṇa whether He is not Bhagavān. It requires brain to understand. I say, "Here is God." Now it is up to you. If you know what is God, then test it, and then you'll accept God. If you do not know how to test it, then you may refuse. That is another thing. You'll accept iron as gold. That is your ignorance. You do not know what is gold. But if you actually know what is gold, you will accept Kṛṣṇa as God, there is no doubt about it. So this is the only platform, Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone come and take to Kṛṣṇa and understand God and learn how to love Him and your life is perfect.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if the Christians are saying that "This is the only platform, the Bible," and the Muslims are saying, "This is the only platform, Koran," and the community of followers of Bhagavad...
Prabhupāda: But we have to see by the result. The result is... Only platform, that only platform, that is decided... Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is actually religion. How? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. If one has learned how to love God. If there is no love of God, then what is the use of claiming that this is the only platform? Where is the sign of love of Godhead? That is to be seen. Simply if you say... Everyone will say, "This, my, this property is the best, or my understanding is..." But there must be practical proof. The practical proof-say how to love God, what is the process of loving God? If you do not know your relationship with God and other's relationship with God, then how you know God? That is lacking. Nobody can give clear conception of God. Can the Christians give? Then where is love of God? If you have no understanding of what is God, where is the question of love? Love is not fictitious. You cannot love air. You love a person, a beautiful person, a beautiful woman. If you say, "I love air. I love the sky..." Where there is question of love?There must be a person. So who is that person we want to love? But they have no personal conception of God, neither they can describe the personal beauty, capacity, strength, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. There is no such description. So they have got the conception of God, but actually they do not know what is God. But religion means you must know God and love Him. That is religion. That is first class religion. Is that clear or not?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So, without reference to God, what is the meaning of sacred rites? Everything is reference that accepting the supreme controller. That is the real meaning. At least, Christian religion accepts God, Muhammadan religion accepts God, or Hindu religion accepts God. So without God, how it can be religion? If there is no understanding of God, the conclusion comes that there is no religion. Fictitious. "We trust in God," but do not know what is God. This is going on. So we have to fight against all this nonsense. Nonsense scientists, nonsense religionists. What do you think? It is not easy-going, sleeping business. We have to fight with so many demons. Otherwise, kava dava adakanam (?), my Guru Mahārāja used to say. Beg some rice and bring it and cook it and eat and sleep.
Pradyumna: Kava daka?
Prabhupāda: Kava dava adakanam. As all our Godbrothers are doing. They have got a little temple, and a few devotees go and beg rice and cook it and eat and sleep, that's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Like being dead almost.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is for this purpose. People may come, see God, then you can think of God. There is no difficulty. If you see something, you think of it. That is man-manā bhava. And if you regularly do it then you become a devotee. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. And when you come to the temple you worship Him. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). Worshiping means give and take. Take blessings and offer little fruit or little flower. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. And if you cannot do anything, just offer your obeisances. Very simple thing. Even the child can perform it. But they will not do it. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Why does he not do it? That is explained. Because unless one is sinful, duṣkṛtina... He has got merit, but he's utilizing his merit for sinful activities. Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious, but duṣkṛti, he has got merit, intelligence, but he's utilizing merit and intelligence for sinful activities. Therefore duṣkṛtina. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. Mūḍha means rascal. He knows everything except God. Narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. The human life is meant for this purpose, to understand God. But he does not. Therefore we say narādhama, lowest of mankind. "But he is very educated." māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. He is so-called educated. Actually, he is not educated, because he does not know what is God. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. The basic principle is atheistic attitude. So these class of men will never offer obeisances or surrender to God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Head man. There are many men, he is the head man. Godhead word is also there in the dictionary. You find out.
Yogeśvara: "Godhead-being God or a God divine nature, Deity, the Godhead, God." The word is there, but the definition they've given is not very...
Prabhupāda: They do not know. They do not know what is God, what is Godhead. They think all these are fictitious. Throughout the whole world they do not know what is God. Simply they know the word, that's all. What it means they do not know. That we are giving. Here is God. Godhead. Nobody knows, nobody cares to know. That is nescience. They think it is an idea, that's all. Actually there is God, there is kingdom of God, one can go and speak with Him, dance with Him. They cannot believe there are... It is beyond their poor fund of knowledge. Therefore they do not accept Kṛṣṇa as God. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). God is the Supreme Person, Supreme Being. Actually there is place where God lives. They do not know. This is first time, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are giving these ideas; otherwise, who knows it? Nobody knows it. The Christian or Muhammadan is... Nobody knows. And religion means to accept God as the Supreme Person. They do not know God. Then what is meaning of religion? Religion means to accept a Supreme Person as the supreme controller. That is religion. How the Supreme Person is working in manufacturing this flower, let the scientists explain. There is no brain? Just nicely painted, symmetrically, each flower of the same class; another class, another class, another class. (guests enters) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Yogeśvara: This is Professor Francois Chenique and his daughter. They drove from Paris this morning to see you.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. You can come forward. I have read your review of our book. It is very nice. (translation is given) Very nice. Your study about this tradition, Indian tradition, I think he has mentioned. Indian tradition, the whole Vedic literature... He understands English?
Prabhupāda: Why?
Nava-yauvana: They say because He's not like human being.
Prabhupāda: Because He's not like a human being, therefore He cannot enjoy. There are so many animals, they are not like human beings. Why they enjoy sex? Can you forbid him that "You are not like human being, you cannot enjoy"? This is all nonsense philosophy. Because they do not know what is God, what He is, what is His position, relationship, therefore these nonsense things are said.
Parivrājakācārya: They think that God is their servant.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no more God. God cannot be servant of anyone. God is master. As soon as He becomes servant, He's no more God. Then you are God. Then you do not know what is the meaning of God. Therefore you are rascal. You do not know the meaning of God and you are trying to explain God. Therefore you are a rascal. The difficulty is at the present moment, rascals are leading the human society. No sane man, only rascals. Their philosophy, their science, their politics, their sociology, because they are guided by the rascals, everything is bad.
Nava-yauvana: They are the biggest cheaters, so everyone becomes cheater.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Difficulty is there is no education. Mūḍha. There is no education, there is no check, therefore people remain duṣkṛtina, sinful, mūḍha, rascal, lowest of the men, narādhama, and their so-called education has no value, there is no real knowledge, therefore they are suffering. Why the government keeps police department? To check these sinful activities. But they do not know what is sinful activity. They are allowed to continue sinful activity.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Religion is now misunderstood. Religion is described in the dictionary, "a faith." So faith..., your faith may be something, my faith may be something, that is not religion. Religion is described in the Vedic literature, "the law given by God." That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). So, just like law means the order given by the state, similarly, religion means the order given by God. So if you do not know what is God, what is His order, then what is your religion? Do you believe it or not? If you do not know what is God, if you do not know what is His word or what is His order, then where is your religion? If you do not know what is the government and if you do not know what is the government's order, then where is the question of law-abiding? Religion means, according to Vedic description.... Just like Kṛṣṇa said, mām ekām śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is religion. Sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "Give up all this nonsense. Surrender unto Me." So what is the objection? Religion is one, surrender to God. So where is the objection? And God says that "You surrender to Me." So where is the objection? Religion cannot be two. Religion is one, surrender to God. If I say, "You are Muslim, you surrender to God, " do you have any objection? If I say to Christian, "You surrender to God," will he have any objection? Therefore religion is one; there cannot be two religions. Why you are bringing other religions? There is no question of other religions. Religion is one. You accept it?
Mrs. Sahani: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is religion. They do not know what is religion. They have no faith in God. This is their position. All bogus. I say it, challenging, do they know what is God? Ki bolo, Mr. Gupta, do they know? People in general, do they know what is God?
Gupta: They don't know what is God. But they only respect God out of fear.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is also good. Ārto arthārthī. Ārtaḥ. That is good. But still they do not know what is God. They have simply heard the name of God, there is God. That is good also. Than the rascals who deny the existence of God. So in comparison to them, they are very good. At least they accept there is something as God. God is good, God is kind, God is... But what is God they have no idea. That's a fact. That they do not know. Either the nonbelievers or believers. Both of them. They have no idea of God. This is the first time perhaps, in the world we are introducing, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa."
Lokanātha: You have said many times you could give complete address of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes we give address.
Lokanātha: And also we know the telephone number.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lokanātha: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: This is the first time. Otherwise, they do not know what is God. Now you are coming from Christian community. Did you have any idea of God?
Dhanañjaya: Just God is great.
Prabhupāda: That's all... But what is that great? What is God you do not know. We know. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). There is no more greater principle than Me. That is great. How you are great? Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). "I am the origin of all the demigods." Next how you are great? Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). This is their ignorance. They have simply heard God is great, but how He is great, that they do not know. Here is the... God is personally speaking, "Yes, I am great in this way." Ahaṁ sarvasya. Vedānta says janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). That is greatness. The original source of everything. So we are presenting God, "Here is God." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ (SB 1.3.28). There are other incarnations, but kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. That's a fact. So try to present the real fact. It will be effective. If there is real reality, just like first class pure ghee... If one tastes, he'll hanker after. Without any advertisement, by the taste of the ghee, it will go on. Is it not? If you put little pure ghee on the rice, it will be so tasteful, that he'll want it again. But give the pure thing. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Try to give Him to the people. And how to take it? Hare Kṛṣṇa. He hasn't got to pay anything. God has given him the tongue. Induce him, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And that is the beginning. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Brs. 1.2.234). It begins from the jihvā. So people will be surprised, "How God consciousness begins with jihvā?" That they do not know. Śāstra says sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. Jihvā, the tongue is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. God consciousness. People are surprised, they think the mind, speculative mind is the beginning. No. Śāstra says tongue is the beginning. Muni, ṛṣi, muni. Muni means speculator. So they think speculative mind is the beginning of God consciousness. But śāstra says no, not the mind. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12).
Prabhupāda: Religion means, that I was discussing, religion means the law given by God. That is religion. They do not know it. They do not know what is God, they do not know what is the words or order of God. Whole world is like that. They profess some religion but religion means the law of God. But if they do not know what is God, then how he'll understand the law of God? That means there is no religion. All cheating. Dharmaḥ projjita kaitavo, the Bhāgavata rejects all kinds of so-called religious system, accusing that they're all cheating. Cheating, all cheating. If you do not know God, what is the meaning of their religion? It is simply cheating. If you have accepted a style of religion without any understanding of God, then it is simply you have been cheated. And that is going on. Everywhere. (Hindi)
Mr. Saxena: I have been to all these four corners of India, Badarikāśrama, Rāmeśvaram, Jagannātha Purī and Dvārakā and he told me what they say, Viśvavarūpa Śaṅkarācārya, he's in Purī Śaṅkarācārya and (Hindi) ...and about 800 rooms in that Paratmaniketan.
Prabhupāda: Eight hundred?
Mr. Saxena: Eight hundred rooms. Very big temple and the daily income is about more than 1500 rupees per day, donation. I still get from three months. His speech is at nights, their sannyāsīs. But if you see that practical life, you realize all this tīrthas, what you call? They are no more tīrthas now. All (indistinct) use that word shopping centers, what we call. I have been to the Sivananda Ashram. Some Cidanandaji is there. Sivanandaji is no more. When I went to Yoganiketan, there is one Gangesvarananda...
Prabhupāda: No, if they follow the rules, God, God said that "You just surrender unto Me."
Devotee: So natural laws.
Prabhupāda: This is the religion. God says that "You surrender unto Me." This is religion. So if one does not know what is God and where to surrender, then where is religion? Is it wrong for God to say that "You surrender unto Me"? Can you say like that?
Mr. Saxena: How, how can you say?
Prabhupāda: If God is the supreme, He has the right to say like that. Just as the government can say that "Must obey." So if the government can say this, the head of the supreme government, if He says that "You surrender." What is wrong there?
Mr. Saxena: Nothing wrong.
Prabhupāda: And that is clear. Simple, two words. Unfortunately they want to deny God. They take the place of God, all these Māyāvādīs. Ānandam, mostly. So that is rascaldom. How you can take the position of God?
Mr. Saxena: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: But they want to take the position of God. "Everyone is God. I am God, you are God." This is they are claiming.
Mr. Saxena: Bhagavan Rajneesh.
Prabhupāda: So many rascals. Why Rajneesh? There are many other.
Prabhupāda: Stop, but unless you are intelligent, how it can be stopped? If the people are not intelligent, the cheaters will cheat. It is very...
Mr. Saxena: But Swamiji, mostly educated persons, Ph.D, D.Litt., M.A., postgraduates, they are the followers of this.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. They are supposed to be very learned but actually they're fools, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. These so-called educated, they are bereft of knowledge. They have no common sense. That I was asking this debauch, as God. That also ignorance. He does not know what is God.
Mr. Saxena: Yes, because education is no education now.
Prabhupāda: He does not know. We have got the definition of God,
- aiśvaryasya samāgrasya
- vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ
- jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva
- ṣaṇṇaṁ bhāga itiṅgaṇa
- (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)
Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya, that one who is in possession of all the wealth, vīryasya all strength, all faith yaśasaḥ, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation, that is God. Now so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, He showed all these things. Aiśvaryasya... For example Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives and for each wife a different palace. And for each wife ten sons. Woman requires very nice accommodation, sons, husband, that is their ambition that He fulfilled, although he married sixteen thousand one hundred and eight wives.
Prabhupāda: How? Kṛṣṇa says, yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). How, you nonsense, straightly say that everyone goes to God? This is nonsense. You can go to Śiva, you can go to Indra, you can go... There are so many planets and you'll go there. And that is reasonable. And how do you say that "Whatever ticket I purchase, I go to this, Delhi?"
Vāsughoṣa: They say that all, they're all the same.
Prabhupāda: "They say." Therefore they are nonsense, mūḍha, rascals. They do not know what is God, what is demigod, what is Lord Śiva, what is Lord Viṣṇu or Brahmā. They do not know. If a woman says, "Oh, everyone is my husband," then she is a prostitute. That's all. A chaste woman will say, "No, there is one, my husband. That's all." That is chaste woman. And if she is liberal, if she says, "No, no, everyone is my husband," that means she is prostitute. She does not know what is value of husband. In Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante anya devatāḥ: (BG 7.20) "Those who have adhered to other demigods, they have lost their intelligence," hṛta-jñānāḥ, "rascals." They'll go. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante anya devatāḥ, antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). Because they are rascals, they prefer like that. The public opinion will be taken out; Kṛṣṇa's opinion will be... Public is rascals. They can say all nonsense. That is not to be taken. You have to take—that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement—what Kṛṣṇa says. What do you think? Kṛṣṇa says, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante anya devatāḥ (BG 7.20).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is desirable in human. Otherwise the animals are in darkness. They do not know what is God. But a human being, because he has got this human form of body, he can come to the light. So all the śāstras are for the human being, not for the cats and dogs. So if you do not take advantage of the śāstras, then you remain in the darkness. This is our position. The light is here. Just like apart from all other śāstras, if you take Bhagavad-gītā, it is the very brilliant light. It is not that changing. Five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa said, what, that is still the same thing. Just like light. Millions of years ago, what was sun, the same sun is there. In the light there is no change. In the darkness there is change. If we do not accept the standard knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā, then we shall continue to remain in darkness and there will be no solution of the problems of life. This is our propaganda. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are asking everywhere, all over the world, "You come to this light and be happy." That's it.
Guest (1): Swamiji, tell us something good, this āśrama, that you're doing.
Prabhupāda: That Mahāṁśa... Where is Mahāṁśa? Āśrama means an attempt to give some light. That is the difference...
Guest (3): According to us, even in lightness there is darkness.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not light. That is called...
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...that a high-court judge and he does not know what is God. How misfortunate he is. And he's speaking of God, "Surrender," all theoretical. They do not know what is surrender. If I say anybody that "Go to Dr. Patel and surrender unto him, and whatever he'll prescribe, you take it," but if he does not know what is Dr. Patel, then where he'll go and what to surrender? This is their position. They speak big, big words but do not know where to go. It is not? What do you think?
Dr. Patel: They do not believe in what you say...
Prabhupāda: Huh? That is the truth. Actually they do not know, and they cheat others, speaking about God. That is the difficulty. All rascals are doing that. And if I say, "All rascals," it is little harsh, but it has to be said. They do not know what is God, and they speak of God. Let them say frankly that "I do not know what is God." That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). If they are sincere, then after many, many births... Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta... (BG 12.5). They do not know, and they will not accept ācāryopāsanam. The ācārya says, Rāmānujācārya says, Madhvācārya says, big, big ācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... They will not believe them. They will speculate in their nonsense speculation. This is the difficulty. Without going to the ācārya... Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is the Vedic process, how one can know. But they will speculate. Ciraṁ vicinvan. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvayaṁ jānāti tattvam... Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvayam, leśānugṛhīta eva hi jānāti tattvaṁ na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan (SB 10.14.29). One who has little mercy of God upon him, he can understand, but others, they can speculate for many, many births; still, they'll never be able. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvayaṁ leśānugṛhīta jānāti tattvam. Leśānugṛhīta eva hi. Leśa. One cannot know God full. That is not possible because you are limited; He is unlimited. Still, if one has learned, at least if one has accepted, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. Bas," his knowledge is perfect. If he simply believes only that "Here is God," he can understand. They don't believe that Kṛṣṇa is God. "Eh... He may be very powerful...," so on. Kṛṣṇa says aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). These rascals will not believe. "So what is there for me?" Mūḍho nābhijānāti. If they remain persistently mūḍhas, who can make them understand? Very difficult. (Hindi) Gandhi did not believe in Kṛṣṇa. Huh?
Prabhupāda: Therefore religion means what is given by God, either directly or through His son or through His servant. That is religion. So if you do not know who is God and what He has given, then where is your religion? Religion means the law given by God. So you should know who is God and what law He has given. Then you have religion. You say you do not know what is God.
Rāmeśvara: This man was saying that in the Bible there is a description of God speaking to Moses and Abraham, and He identified Himself as Jehovah, not Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is the main point, that what God said.
Rāmeśvara: What God said? He told Abraham to go to Israel and to worship only Him. He said, "There shall be no other Gods. Just Me." And then He told Moses the Ten Commandments.
Prabhupāda: So God said that... God must say. So you say God: Jehovah; and we say God: Kṛṣṇa. What is the wrong?
Rāmeśvara: "The wrong is that Kṛṣṇa was a man who lived on earth five hundred thousand years ago and..."
Prabhupāda: So Jehovah was God.
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So that means He was God, you are man, how you are hearing from Him?
Rāmeśvara: Because it's in the Bible.
Prabhupāda: Then, sixteen thousand, sixteen millions He can have. Why, if He's unlimited? What is wrong there? If He's unlimited, why sixteen thousand? If He marries sixteen million, sixteen billion, still, it is not sufficient. Otherwise there is no meaning of unlimited. Why you restrict God to sixteen or one? God is under your restriction, and He's still unlimited? That means you do not know what is God. You do not know what is God. You are mistaken.
Rāmeśvara: But very often they will say, "It is not a question of religion that we are concerned with. It is a question of brainwashing and mind control. Your chanting so many hours a day, it's hypnotizing."
Prabhupāda: So, what is to you? That is my business. Why do you bother yourself?
Rāmeśvara: "But you are imposing it on so many young people."
Prabhupāda: We must impose. You impose they will not chant. That is your business. We must impose. That is my business. If you have power, you stop them.
Rāmeśvara: "But you're not giving them a chance to think when they chant so many hours."
Prabhupāda: Why shall I give you chance? You are thieves. You are coming to kidnap. Why shall I give you chance? You say to them, as we are saying, that "You chant." They are chanting. You make brainwash. You ask them, "Don't chant." That is your business. But that you cannot do.
Rāmeśvara: "But by this chanting, they develop a kind of blind faith, and they stop thinking."
Prabhupāda: So, what is to you and to your father? Let them do that. Everyone has got freedom.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, but their idea is all nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Therefore prove that "You are rascal, nonsense. You do not know what is God."
Rāmeśvara: They think that God has nothing to do. He does everything by His thinking. Just like in the Bible it says...
Prabhupāda: That why do you say nothing to do, rascal? That is doing. He is doing by thinking; that means...
Rāmeśvara: Yes. It is said in the Bible He created the world just by His thoughts.
Prabhupāda: That means—that's all right—that God is so powerful that He can do by His thinking. We also admit. But that does not mean God is not doing. But He is doing in a finer way. You rascal, you do in a grosser way. God does in a finer way. But that does not mean God is inactive.
Rāmeśvara: And he was criticizing our description of God coming as a boar...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is God.
Rāmeśvara: ...and God coming as a tortoise...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is God.
Rāmeśvara: ...and a fish, half man, half lion.
Prabhupāda: So that means you do not know what is God. God can come as He likes. That is God. But you rascal, you do not know what is God; therefore you are restricting, "He cannot come in this way." That is your restriction. Why God should be restricted? (knock) Yes?
Rāmeśvara: Come in.
Indian man: Gurudeva, this carriage foreman is having some message from Gupta Saheb.
Indian man (2): Namaskāra.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Namaskāra. (break) So rascal... (break) God is unlimited, and you are a teeny man. Why you want to limit God by your dictation?
Rāmeśvara: He says yes, it's possible...
Prabhupāda: How it is possible?
Rāmeśvara: Because God is unlimited, these things are possible, but...
Prabhupāda: Then why do you say that He cannot come as fish, He cannot...?
Rāmeśvara: Because if He wanted us to believe in these things He would have told us on Mount Sinai, and He would have told us through Jesus Christ. Jesus said "I am the only way..."
Prabhupāda: But that I have already answered, that...
Rāmeśvara: Jesus Christ says, "I am the only way."
Prabhupāda: First of all we must understand what do you mean by religion. First of all let me know. What do you mean by religion? Hm? Religion means, according to Vedic śāstra, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). "Religion means the law given by God." It is very simple. But is you do not know what is God and if you do not know what law He has given, then where is religion? This is cheating. Just like law means the principle or the regulation given by the state, by the government. That is law, not that you manufacture some law at your home, as it is going on—yato mata tato patha. You manufacture something, rascal law, and that becomes a religion. That is not religion. Religion means the law given by God, simple law. So if you do not know what is God and if you do not know what law he has given, then where is your religion? There is no religion. Without understanding of God and without understanding of the law as given by God, then there is no religion. That is cheating in the name of religion. Therefore in the Bhāgavata, from the very beginning it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vedyaṁ vāstavam atra: (SB 1.1.2) "Real religion is to be understood here." Real religion is Bhagavān speaking, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). This is real religion. If you do not know God, if you do not know how to surrender to God, then where is your religion? If you do not know government, you do not know the law of the government, then where is the question of becoming... (break) ...therefore we are misguided. Very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa is God, and He's asking, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). What is that śaraṇaṁ vraja? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). There is no difficulty. Where is the difficulty? Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). Why don't you follow it? That is the...
Prabhupāda: Recruit them. And speak in such societies. We have now our prestige and preaching. It will be very nice honor everywhere. So Kṛṣṇa has given you some talent. Utilize it. These rascals are misleading. Although the instruction is there, they are misinterpreting in their own way, misleading themselves and misleading others. They say the name of God. They do not know what is God, although God is explaining Himself. Such a rascal. God is explaining, "Here, I'm God." He is accepted, and they do not... When you ask them what is God: "That we do not know. Our God is (indistinct)." Such things are there. So they have to be convinced that these half-educated leaders cannot make you happy. It is not possible. They do not know the basic principle of life. Take guidance from Kṛṣṇa. That is our movement. You'll be happy. And don't be carried away by the whims. This is an important chance, human life. These motorcars are running, they are running just like the flies come, phut phut phut phut. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, Eleventh Chapter. Blind. Expedite death, that's all. There is no solution. The solution is here, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So recruit first of all. Just like these doctor friends. First of all get some friends.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Bāla-kṛṣṇa told me that we have doctor, medical doctor, M.B.V. He's from Russia. He is going to join us.
Girirāja: Yeah, Dr. Sharma. He lives on Hare Kṛṣṇa Land. He's an Indian who took his degree in Alaska and he has two sister-in-laws also who took their doctor's degree in Moscow, and they have great faith in Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: There is child, there is mother—there must be father. There is no logic. This is logic. Because without father there cannot be the child. Three things required—mother, father and child. Child means must be father and mother. Mother is there, the child is born, where is the father? We know who is father, what is His name, what is His activities. That is our advancement. And "We do not know," that means you are not a respectable, wise chap. You do not know your father's name. Any respectable man in the court or anywhere, the father's name immediately... "Your name?" "Yes." "Your father's name?" Is it not? If he does not know his father's name, that means he is not a respectable. He has no respectable position. Anyone who does not know what is God, he is just like the same child who does not know his father's name. Father must be there. That you do not know. You do not know, that is your foolishness. So anyone who does not know who is his father, what is God, he is not a respectable man. It may be that you have not seen your father, but you cannot deny, that without father you were born. This is no logic. Is that logic?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Logical.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't know what the meaning of logic is.
Prabhupāda: Orphan. Orphan means, does it, he has no father? He does not know who is his father.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Orphan means doesn't know.
Prabhupāda: You cannot say...
Mr. Rajda: If the rulers, they have got faith in dharma...
Prabhupāda: They have no faith. That is the difficulty. They talk of God, talk of religion, but they do not know what is God, what is religion. That is going on. You may be or I may be. We do not know what is the identity of the living entity. Then where is the question of religion?
Mr. Rajda: No, in the last rulers, most of them were Communists, but they said that religion is opium. They say religion is opium. They didn't believe in religion at all.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they say something, we say something, he says something. That you manufacture something. But nobody know what is reality. That is the difficulty. Unless you know the reality, to suggest something, "I suggest it," that does not mean it is solution. That is going on, all over the world. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha. The external features, these material features, they are concerned with that. Earth, water, air, fire, mind, intelligence. But they do not know that beyond this, there is another element. Unless you come to that knowledge, there is no question of welfare activities. That knowledge is available in India. India should understand. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Not only India, but he must be a human being. Not only human being, but also systematic human society. (break) Of course, we are trying to give this knowledge. These American, Europeans, they are taking it. It should be done very systematically, not alone tried.
Prabhupāda: That I have heard it. Maybe in the Bhāgavata. Such a nice thing. Alone in this world I am struggling, and the so-called intelligent persons, they will not come. They have business. Why? If it is actually beneficial to the human society, why I should alone try? I will go on trying so long I'll live. There will be no checking of... But what kind of intelligent persons there are? (Govindam record in background) It has been approved by intelligent men like... From our section. Most wretched rogues. They do work. They are not so. They are intelligent. They have rejected all these "Lord" ideas and the... Because they have sinned, all humbug. Especially in the Western countries, in the Christian world, what is there? It is bogus. I have condemned it. You have seen that book? One Christian boy inquired. Have you got the copy? Bring. (pause) We shall go on playing govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam aham. People may hear or not hear. We don't mind.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To Mr. Francois Pierre. "My dear Francois." He's in France. "Please accept my blessings. I beg to thank you for your letter dated March 17th. Try to understand our mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The world is all going to hell. They do not know what is the value of life. Like blind sheep following a blind leader, they are all going to the slaughterhouse. Human life is meant for saving, but instead the leaders are keeping the people in darkness. This is suicidal. Let us try to save them. Christian, Hindu, or Muslim, it doesn't matter. One must have faith in God. But if one does not know what is God, then what is the question of religion? This sectarian view has caused havoc in the world. Our real business is to know God and one's relationship with God. Do you know what is God? The answers to your questions are as follows: 1) Yes, the message of Jesus is universally applicable. Why not? Jesus says, 'Thou shalt not kill.' This is applicable to all. But all Christians are violating this law. So where is a Christian? In my opinion there is not a single Christian. Do they follow all ten commandments? 2) We accept Jesus Christ as śaktyāveśa-avatāra, an empowered incarnation of God. 3) The Bible should be accepted literally and not symbolically.
Prabhupāda: Nobody knows God. The whole Christian world, they do not know what is God. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. And they are these ajānantaḥ, must fall down. Patanti te. The very word is "falldown." Without any understanding of God, religion means falldown. Everyone has fallen down. So many religions... Now these Arya-samajis...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's not very big.
Prabhupāda: Who cares for them? For some time they can do, jumping. It will not stay. But the Vaiṣṇava religion is going on. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). As many... So we may take it since the time of Kṛṣṇa, five thousand years, this has been going on, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, Deity worship, going on.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing I saw in Hrishikesh. They have...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The dictaphone fell over.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They have a lot of big statues displaying Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, dioramas. I just saw.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Trivikrama: So many places along the way. From the very birth, then all the activities, Aghāsura demon, all of them, all of them.
| Page Title: | Not know what is God (Conversations 1965 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 22 of Dec, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=53, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 53 |