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Not a very good proposal

Sri Caitanya-caritamrta

CC Madhya-lila

"Now you are asking me to kill him. This is not a very good proposal."
CC Madhya 25.191, Translation:

Hussain Khān replied, "Subuddhi Rāya has maintained me very carefully. He was just like a father to me," he said. "Now you are asking me to kill him. This is not a very good proposal."

Lectures

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures

Kṛṣṇa is not encouraging that proposal. We have to mark it. Kṛṣṇa is not encouraging. Kṛṣṇa is rather... Kṛṣṇa is, rather, inducing Arjuna that "It is not a very good proposal. It is not befitting your position. You belong to the Āryan family. You belong to the kṣatriya, royal family. And you are denying to fight? No, no, this is not good.
Lecture on BG 2.7-11 -- New York, March 2, 1966:

Kṛṣṇa, although He is present there, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but still, He did not encourage him. From worldly point of view, when somebody says that "I'll... I give it up. I don't want it. I don't want to fight with my friends or my relatives. Better let them enjoy. I shall forego my claim," from worldly point of view, this is a very, I mean, gentlemanly behavior, that one is foregoing his claim for the matter of his relatives or friends. But Kṛṣṇa is not encouraging that proposal. We have to mark it. Kṛṣṇa is not encouraging. Kṛṣṇa is rather... Kṛṣṇa is, rather, inducing Arjuna that "It is not a very good proposal. It is not befitting your position. You belong to the Āryan family. You belong to the kṣatriya, royal family. And you are denying to fight? No, no, this is not good. And I am your friend. I have taken the responsibility of your chariot driver, and, if you do not fight, what people will say?" So He is not encouraging. Just see.

Now, here is a good proposal from the worldly point of view that Arjuna does not want to fight, and Kṛṣṇa is not encouraging him. Now, what is the point? Somebody may say that "Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, why He is encouraging in the matter of fighting?" People, at the present moment, when there is a question of war, people want to stop that war. At the present moment, the movement is going on between all nations that they do not want war. But here we see that Kṛṣṇa is not discouraging war. We have to mark this point.

Similarly, because we have come to this conditional state of life, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19)—we sometimes..., once we take birth and again we die—this is not very good proposal. But these rascals, they do not know how nature is working.
Lecture on BG 16.8 -- Hyderabad, December 16, 1976:

Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is para-upakāra, para-upakāra, because within this material world, with material designation and material envelopment, they are all suffering. Kṛṣṇa is more unhappy for our suffering because we are His sons. Suppose your son is suffering. You will suffer also, not that the son is suffering. Similarly, because we have come to this conditional state of life, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19)—we sometimes..., once we take birth and again we die—this is not very good proposal. But these rascals, they do not know how nature is working. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). We are leaving one body and accepting another body. This is a great botheration. But the rascal so-called scientist, politician, they do not know this. I therefore say, "rascals." They are very much proud of their learning, advancement of science, but they cannot understand the simple truth spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). There is dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dhīras tatra na muhyati.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures

"If You think, My dear Kṛṣṇa, now we are well established, we have got our kingdom back, so everything is nicely done, so You want to leave us, that is not a very good proposal. Because we are not free as yet."
Lecture on SB 1.8.37 -- Los Angeles, April 29, 1973:

So Kuntīdevī says, yeṣāṁ na ca anyad bhavataḥ padāmbujāt. This is called full dependence. In the śaraṇāgati, in the surrender process, there are six things. The six things is that completely, one of the..., completely dependent upon Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyasya saṅkalpaḥ. The first śaraṇāgati is to accept everything favorable for Kṛṣṇa's service. Ānukūlyam. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā (CC Madhya 19.167). Devotional, first-class bhakti means accepting everything which is favorable for devotional service. And prātikūlyasya varjanam. And reject everything which is unfavorable to the procedure of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we forbid that "You don't do this," because they are unfavorable. And we say something, "You do this, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa sixteen rounds," that is favorable. Śaraṇāgati means to give up the unfavorable things and to accept the favorable. Ānukūlyasya saṅkalpaḥ prātikūlyasya varjanam. And believe that "Kṛṣṇa will give me protection." Full faith. And to count oneself as one of the servants of Kṛṣṇa. In this way, śaraṇāgati.

So here Kuntī says that "If You think, My dear Kṛṣṇa, now we are well established, we have got our kingdom back, so everything is nicely done, so You want to leave us, that is not a very good proposal. Because we are not free as yet. Because we have killed so many kings, all their relatives and friends, they're also planning to come and again fight with us. This is our position. Parāyaṇaṁ rājasu yojitāṁhasām.

This is called initiation, that to the spiritual master or Kṛṣṇa we surrender. He immediately excuses all sinful reaction of life. But if we commit again and again, that is not very good proposal.
Lecture on SB 7.9.41 -- Mayapura, March 19, 1976:

Just like Jagāi-Mādhāi. Jagāi-Mādhāi was most dangerously sinful persons, and they surrendered to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You know the story, that he injured... Both the brothers injured Nityānanda Prabhu. Still, Nityānanda Prabhu was so persistent that He decided that "Inspite of all the faults of these two persons, I shall deliver them." So when He was injured by these two brothers, so Caitanya Mahāprabhu became very, very angry, and He immediately called for His cakra to kill these sinners. But Nityānanda Prabhu requested, "My dear Lord, in this incarnation You promised that You'll not take any weapon to kill. So don't kill them. Have mercy on them." This is Vaiṣṇava. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu became pacified. In the meantime these two brothers fell on the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's lotus feet: "Sir, excuse us and save us." In this way they became surrendered. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu made one condition, that "You have committed so many sinful activities. I shall excuse them immediately, provided you promise that you'll not commit again." This is initiation. This is called initiation, that to the spiritual master or Kṛṣṇa we surrender. He immediately excuses all sinful reaction of life. But if we commit again and again, that is not very good proposal. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra we become immediately free, undoubtedly, but if we take it as an instrument for committing sinful activity, then the danger is very...

Just like in the Christianity there is a process of confession?

Arrival Addresses and Talks

As soon as we shall require any material things, then Kṛṣṇa will give us opportunity. But that is not very good proposal. In the material life, either your very rich man or demigod, or in the higher planetary system, or as insect or any royal person anywhere, the threefold miseries of material existence there must be.
Arrival Lecture -- Gainesville, July 29, 1971:

So devotees, they want to give service only. They do not want in exchange from Kṛṣṇa anything. That is pure love. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was teaching like that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye: (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4) "My dear Lord, I do not want from You any amount of riches, dhanam; janam, any number of followers." Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitād, "not very nice, beautiful, attractive wife. I do not want all these things." Because materially we want all these things. All these people are struggling very hard. What for? For riches. "Money, money. Where is money? Where is money?" And then, as soon as he has got some money, then he wants to be minister, or president, or governor. Janam, followers, there will be so many followers. Na dhanam, na janam. And very beautiful wife or husband for sense gratification. These things are wanted for materially ambitious people. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "I don't want all these things." He's teaching, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye. Then what You want? Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi: (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4) "I simply want that I may take My birth anywhere, it doesn't matter, but let Me become Your servant. Let Me become Your devotee." That is the aspiration of pure devotee.

So as soon as we shall require any material things, the Kṛṣṇa will give us opportunity. But that is not very good proposal. In the material life, either your very rich man or demigod, or in the higher planetary system, or as insect or any royal person anywhere, the threefold miseries of material existence there must be. Every intelligent man should be aspiring for Kṛṣṇa only and should be satisfied as Kṛṣṇa likes him to do. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You try to understand. Take to it. You'll be happy. That is our proposal.

General Lectures

The educational system must be reformed. Not that godless, no education, secular government, no education of God in the schools and colleges. This is not a very good proposal. Here we get authoritative statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He is one of the mahājana.
Pandal Lecture -- Delhi, November 20, 1971:

This Vedic culture is so scientifically made. Just like according to Vedic culture, the women are instructed or trained up to become very chaste, very chaste. Only one husband. Why? That is explained: strīṣu duṣṭāsu varṇa-saṅkaraḥ bhaviṣyati. If women do not remain chaste, then unwanted population will come out. That is called varṇa-saṅkaraḥ. Varṇa-saṅkaraḥ means unwanted population. Actually all over the world this is happening, and therefore, the problems of the world becoming very serious and grave. So these are all scientific proposals. The educational system must be reformed. Not that godless, no education, secular government, no education of God in the schools and colleges. This is not a very good proposal. Here we get authoritative statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He is one of the mahājana. Our process is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We have to follow the footsteps of great personalities. That is our method. We don't manufacture our own way of living. We simply follow the great personalities. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. You cannot come to the right conclusion simply by argument. You may be very good arguer; another comes better arguer than you. So simply by argument, you cannot come to the conclusion. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā.

Philosophy Discussions

To give protection to women. That is not actually worshiping, but maintaining her comfortably, that is the duty of the man. But to worship woman as God, that is not very good proposal. Then he will be henpecked. Worship of God is reserved for God only, not for anyone else.
Philosophy Discussion on Auguste Comte:

Prabhupāda: Although woman is less intelligent, still, by the help of the husband, he..., she can become intelligent. This we think, we see in the instruction of Kapiladeva. Kapiladeva is the son of Devahūti, and He is engaged in teaching the mother. So a woman, either as daughter, as wife or mother, remains subordinate and gets knowledge from the man, either from the father or the husband or son. Then that life is elevated. We find also in the conjugal life of Lord Śiva and Pārvatī, in the Purāṇas we see always Pārvatī is questioning and Lord Śiva is answering. In this way woman is elevated, and the comforts given by the woman, comforts of the tongue, of the belly, and the genital, in this way, cooperative life, both of them becomes advanced in spiritual life.

Hayagrīva: He felt that in the beginning stages at least, of positivism, woman should take the role of God. He says, "From childhood each of us will be taught to regard their sex as the principal source of human happiness and improvement, whether in public life or in private. In a word, man will kneel to women and to women alone. The worship of women, when it has assumed a more systematic shape, will be valued for its own sake as a new instrument of happiness and moral growth. The worship of women satisfies this condition and is so far a greater efficacy than the worship of God."

Prabhupāda: Worship of man, woman.

Hayagrīva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, to give protection to women. That is not actually worshiping, but maintaining her comfortably, that is the duty of the man. But to worship woman as God, that is not very good proposal. Then he will be henpecked. Worship of God is reserved for God only, not for anyone else. But the exchange, cooperation, between men and women for worshiping God, that is essential. Not that woman should be worshiped like God, or man should be worshiped like God. But the affection sometimes is stressed that you see him as God or see, see her as God. That is sentimental.

Conversations and Morning Walks

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Prakṛti, nature, will offer the body, and there are so many varieties of body. So one should know at least, what kind of body I'm going to get next. That is intelligence. And if he remains in the darkness, and if he becomes other than human being, that is not very good proposal.
Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Now it has come to another platform. So anyway, the knights, they are respectable gentlemen of the society, leading men of the society. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for enlightening people to the right standard of understanding the goal of life. Because after this life, after this body is annihilated, we do not know what kind of body we are getting next. We must prepare. Just like you are elevated to the position of lordship. So you had to prepare yourself. Not that this lordship is offered to anyone and everyone. One who is qualified, he is offered this position. Similarly, we should know how we are becoming qualified for the next life. But that education is lacking. There is no such education. In the university or anywhere, nobody thinks, "What we are going to become next life?" But we should be prepared. If, after becoming Prime Minister in this life, or President, like Mr. Nixon, and again, by his activities, he's going to be another animal, oh, that is not very successful proposal. But there is such chance. Because after death, after giving up this body, we are completely under the grip of material nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

Find out this verse. Prakṛti, nature, will offer the body, and there are so many varieties of body. So one should know at least, what kind of body I'm going to get next. That is intelligence. And if he remains in the darkness, and if he becomes other than human being, that is not very good proposal. They should know. What is that? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni...?

Pradyumna:

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

"The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities, which are in actuality carried out by nature."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the whole problem is how to get out of the control of material nature. That is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

We have got good brain. Instead of utilizing the brain to know what is the active principles of this whole universe, if we utilize that brain for manufacturing a watch, that is not very good proposal.
Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Dr. Muncing: With respect, sir, I notice you wear a watch. This must be obviously a product of science, and this is what it's about. But you are stressing time and again in your writings the need to concentrate on the laws that you set out in order to achieve some standing in the future, in the life hereafter. Isn't this at the risk of neglecting the people who are sharing this life with us here and now?

Prabhupāda: No, it is not the question of neglecting. Just like formerly there was no watch, but still they used to keep time by the movement of the sun on a dial, just making some marks on the stone. Do you know this?

Guests: Yes, yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So their work was going on. Their work was not suffering for want of this watch.

Dr. Muncing: I agree.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have got good brain. Instead of utilizing the brain to know what is the active principles of this whole universe, if we utilize that brain for manufacturing a watch, that is not very good proposal. You manufacture watch, but at the same time, you try to study the active principle, who is the watchmaker. I am seeing the watch with the eyes, but as soon as the active principle is gone, no more seeing. Where is that science? A watchmaker is making, screw-driving, and doing so many things. All of a sudden his heart fails. No more watch. What is that active principle? Where is that science? That is my proposition.

Correspondence

1971 Correspondence

So far your travelling expenses, if you spent Rs 13,000/ in four months that means over 3000 Rs in a month or more than Rs 100/ in a day; that is certainly extravagancy. That means if you have collected one member in a day then 10% is immediately spent for taxi fare. That is not a very good proposal. When the accounts will be audited, the auditors will want debit vouchers for each payment. Whether all expenditures have been made under such vouchers. Otherwise the auditor will not pass the account.
Letter to Tamala Krsna -- Mombassa, Kenya 16 September, 1971:

Our policy should be for maintenance to take from many persons. Big donations should go to the building and book funds. Our policy is "madhukari" or the profession of the bumblebee. The bumblebee does not eat all the honey in one flower. It goes from flower to flower and takes little. The purpose is that saintly persons, Vaisnavas, if they take something from many men, everyone is benefited. We should not follow the policy that one man gives us everything and we become idle. This is a material policy. Whatever Mr. Jayan is contributing should go directly to the building fund and for maintenance we should collect from many persons as monthly subscription and big donations should go to the book and building funds. And so far your idea for giving the bank instructions to deposit 50% in each account, the bank will not take so much trouble. Better you do it. Already there is book and building fund accounts. As soon as the money is there, you should deposit 50% in each.

So far your travelling expenses, if you spent Rs 13,000/ in four months that means over 3000 Rs in a month or more than Rs 100/ in a day; that is certainly extravagancy. That means if you have collected one member in a day then 10% is immediately spent for taxi fare. That is not a very good proposal. When the accounts will be audited, the auditors will want debit vouchers for each payment. Whether all expenditures have been made under such vouchers. Otherwise the auditor will not pass the account.

So far the debt of Rs 23,000 if you adjust it in that way then the same problem remains. The fact is that we require at least 25 lakhs for Mayapur. Before beginning our construction work there we must be confident that the amount will be easily collected. Better to realize the Rs 23,000/ by another source. The fact is not that how it should be realized but some plan how this extravagancy may be stopped. That is the real problem. Hence forward all expenditure, proper debit voucher must be maintained. If we do not place audited accounts to the Registrar of Societies they may cancel us. That is the law.

1972 Correspondence

I have read that you are "screening very carefully" the children who want to come there. That is not a very good proposal. All children of devotees should be welcome.
Letter to Aniruddha -- Bombay 10 January, 1972:

I have read that you are "screening very carefully" the children who want to come there. That is not a very good proposal. All children of devotees should be welcome. Even they have developed some unfavorable qualities, they are only young children, how do you expect them to behave in the best way? You have to make them very nice behavior by training them and simply giving discipline. So let everyone come to our school. That is our policy, not to discriminate.

The children should be trained in early rising, attending mangal arati, some elementary education: arithmetic, alphabet, some of our books, like that. They should go to bed by 8 p.m. and rise by 4 a.m. for mangal arati, getting 8 hours sleep. If they take 8 hours sleep, they will not fall asleep during arati. When they get up they should wash with a little warm water, at least three times wash face. They may sleep one hour in the afternoon and there is no harm. Encourage them to chant as much japa as possible, but there is no question of force or punishment. If there is need you may shake your finger at them but never physical punishment is allowed. Try as far as possible to discipline them with love and affection, so that they develop a taste for austerity of life and think it great fun to serve Krishna in many ways. Rising early and mangal arati, this is enough austerity. Besides that, let them learn something, chant, dance, eat as much prasadam as they like, and do not mind if they have playful nature—let them also play and run, that is natural. It is nice if they eat often—if children overeat it doesn't matter, that is no mistake. Boys and girls should be educated separately.

Regarding your proposal to open one store, that is not a very good proposal. Our devotees cannot work in that way. Better they are preaching and selling books door-to-door.
Letter to Sri Govinda -- Bombay 10 January, 1972:

Regarding your proposal to open one store, that is not a very good proposal. Our devotees cannot work in that way. Better they are preaching and selling books door-to-door. That man simply wants to take our men for nothing, create some trouble, then drive us away. This has been our experience. If the man wants to open such store and without us working give us some profit, that is all right.

If you make arrangements for purchasing two big, big houses and then go away, then that is not very good proposal.
Letter to Bhagavan -- Los Angeles 16 June, 1972:

My money is already invested in a Mayapur Trust Fund, so there is no possibility of lending you any money. Furthermore, in your absence I don't think there is need of very big house. If you make arrangements for purchasing two big, big houses and then go away, then that is not very good proposal. To purchase our own house in Los Angeles, London, these headquarters are required as permanent but we should not be very much anxious after purchasing many houses and properties. In future through out the society, it is better so far as possible that we should rent. Big house means big responsibility. So unless there are many men, and very big propaganda, buying house is risky and unnecessary.

I have heard from Bhagavan dasa that you want to move the deities from Detroit. That is not a very good proposal. In general, deities are never removed from one place to another simply for show.
Letter to Satsvarupa -- Paris 25 July, 1972:

I have heard from Bhagavan dasa that you want to move the deities from Detroit. That is not a very good proposal. In general, deities are never removed from one place to another simply for show. Once the deity is installed in India, it can never be removed under any circumstances, even they must build the highway around it. But in our case we may sometimes have to change houses, so we may once have to move the deity from one house to another, but we shall not move them from one city to another just for our own convenience. We are always thinking these kind of changes, why is that? I simply want things to be developed which we have got, not to make so many big big plans and changing all the time, that is not very practical.

Page Title:Not a very good proposal
Compiler:Visnu Murti, MayuriSakhee
Created:26 of Apr, 2010
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=1, OB=0, Lec=7, Con=2, Let=5
No. of Quotes:15