Hayagrīva: James, after analyzing all of these religions, different religious experiences, he gives his own conclusions, and he concludes his book in this way. He gives five basic conclusions. The first-one—"That the visible world is part of a more spiritual universe from which it draws its chief significance." (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Material world means it is existing in the spiritual effulgence of the Lord. Just like all the planets they are resting, living within the sunshine, but by geographical position, when it is back side, the sun is not in the front but in the back, then it becomes dark. Similarly, everything is existing in the spiritual effulgence, rays of the Lord, and when you forget, this is called material world. So the material world is in that piece of spiritual world, but forgetfulness of God is material. So when we..., our revival of consciousness, God consciousness, then there is no more material world. For such person who is advanced in spiritual consciousness or God consciousness, there is nothing material; everything is spiritual.
Hayagrīva: Well that's his second conclusion. His second is that "Union or harmonious relation with that higher universe is our true end."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual realization.
Hayagrīva: Three...
Prabhupāda: There is no material realization. No more material realization means no more forgetfulness of our eternal relationship with God. Then it is spiritual.
Hayagrīva: Three: "That prayer or a communion with the spirit thereof, be that spirit God or law, is a process wherein work is really done and spiritual energy flows in and produces effects, psychological or material, within the phenomenal world, for religion produces a new zest which adds itself like a gift to life and takes the form either of lyrical enchantment or of appeal to earnestness and heroism." In other words, our relation with God in the world gives...
Prabhupāda: That we have al...
Hayagrīva: ...it's like a gift to life.
Prabhupāda: ...already explained. We have got five relationships. To realize the creation of God with awe and veneration, appreciation, that is one relationship. This is called śānta rasa. Then further progress is that to offer himself to serve God. That is called dāsya rasa. And further advancement, to treat God as friend, that is sākhya rasa. Then accept God as son, that is vātsalya rasa. And accept God as the most beloved, that is mādhurya rasa. So in this mādhurya rasa, to accept God as the most beloved includes other relationships; therefore here is the highest perfection of relationship. Although all other relationships they are as good, but it depends on the devotee's choice whichever relationship we like. The result is the same, but by comparative study it has been decided by the saintly persons that our relationship with God as the lover and beloved, that is the highest position.