Prabhupāda: They cannot understand that this is also sense gratification. "I am not no more satisfied by becoming a little minister and king and.... No. I shall become God. Why shall I.... By becoming king or minister I beg to the goddess of fortune, 'Mother, give me a little money.' Why shall I beg? I shall enjoy her. I become Nārāyaṇa." Same disease. A yogi also, after mystic power they want to show magic: "I shall make like this and gold will be there. People will worship me as I am God." Do that. People do that. If you play something wonderful they will accept you: "Oh, you are God." But he does not know that he cannot become God. That is not possible. Although he gets little fractional authority to puzzle others that he has become God.... Because people are fools, if he can produce little gold like this, they will be immediately amazed: "Oh, how powerful he is." They have no capacity to understand. If God is meant for making gold, why not worship the God who has made already millions of gold mines? Unlimited. There is no limit. Why this paltry god? They have no such knowledge. They are amazed.
No knowledge (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Ajitendriyānām. Without controlling the senses, other things, they are simply professional. It has no value. (break)...yogis, all their methods, they have been described by Prahlāda Mahārāja as a way of their livelihood. Actually, they have no knowledge. They are talking of, as knowledge, but they have no knowledge. This profession is their means of their livelihood. Otherwise, they have no value. Just like a magician. He shows some magic, but that does not mean he has all knowledge. He has taken these magic performances as a means of his livelihood. (break) ...ti ajitendriyānām. Jugglery of words, they are professional. (break) ...that big, big words. Then people engage them: "Oh, here is a big scientist." And if he's not engaged, his talking has no value. By the knowledge he has acquired, he can make some money. That's all.
Prabhupāda: It is not faith. It is fact. If I say that "At 6:30 in the evening there will be no sun," it is not faith; it is fact. But a rascal does not say... "No, why? The sun is there. Why there will be no sun?" But intelligent man will say, "No, there will be no sun." It is neither astrology, neither anything. It is knowledge. You have no knowledge; you do not know. I have knowledge; I can tell. That is the way.
Madhudviṣa: But I must believe that knowledge.
Prabhupāda: But you are rascal, "I believe." Learn how to believe it, how to see it.
Madhudviṣa: But I have another teacher who can teach me something I can see.
Prabhupāda: Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. If you have got knowledge, then you can see. But you have no knowledge. How you can see? Therefore you have to go to a person where you get the knowledge. Then you will see. Another example is that in the desert the animal is seeing there is water.
Prabhupāda: So do you like to accept it, that disease? Therefore it has been condemned, prāyaścitta. Perhaps you have read it in the beginning of Sixth Canto. Prāyaścitta... Parīkṣit Mahārāja condemned, "What is the use of this Vedic prāyaścitta if it is suffering, again and again? Then what is the use?" That he has condemned. But prāyaścitta vimarśanam. Therefore the rascal should be given knowledge that "You are attacked with some disease. Very good. You are injected with some medicine. You are cured. Then again you are attacked. So why you are going in this way? Stop it." And that is knowledge. That knowledge is also not perfect, because even a man in knowledge, he knows that "If I go to prostitute, I'll be attacked with syphilitic poison, and last time I had the same trouble. I had to spend so much money." But still he'll go, because he has no knowledge. So even one has no knowledge, if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he becomes detestful: "Oh..." That is the, mean, gift of bhakti.
Dr. Patel: Because they are māyayāpahṛta-jñānā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It means they have no knowledge.
Dr. Patel: Māyā has taken away their vision, their sense of understanding, sense of.... What do you call, sense of understanding or sense of...?
Prabhupāda: Sense of reality.
Dr. Patel: Reality. I was trying to say that word, reality. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ (BG 7.15). But today the whole world is practically asura.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is a word declared to the asuras. You see? Therefore everyone is our enemy. Nobody likes us, because a declaration of war against the asura... And we are fighting with some tiny soldiers, that's all. And they are very strong. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Thank you. Jaya. (break) ...we don't want who says that "Why you are searching after God? The gods are loitering in the street." Of course, it is in higher sense, but you cannot say respectively(?), "Everyone is God." Maybe.... (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: He has written one book very authorized, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture. So we are being accepted by learned circle, and who cares for these rascals? Nobody cares. Only some sentiment. There is no science; there is no knowledge. Here it is authoritative knowledge based on Vedic culture.
Interviewer: But if you consider your religion to be the only religion...
Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position.
Prabhupāda: So that means you have to accept it—there is superior administration. You may not know what is that administration, but you have to accept it. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, "Under My supervision." Here those who are in the gross ignorance, not intelligent, they can suggest that there is some brain, just like Professor Einstein used to say. But he has no knowledge who is that brain, and we have that knowledge, who is that brain. That brain is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore our knowledge is perfect. They can simply suggest that "There is a brain," but we can say, "Here is the brain." Then it is.... If one knows whose brain it is, that is perfect knowledge.
Guru-kṛpā: But they have no faith. That's the only difficulty.
Guru-kṛpā: Yes. And they say these neighbors back here are the ones that do all the complaining. So some were expressing that this might be better, they could come in off the street. Also, many tourists come to Hawaii, and if we make it very nice, then they can, many tourist buses may come here to see the temple. So if it is near the gate then you'll come right out. But it's just that I have no knowledge how to build anything.
Prabhupāda: So?
Guru-kṛpā: Myself, how to go about it. I don't have any experience or knowledge of that.
Prabhupāda: No, you have no experience. I know, so that Australian boy who works constantly, there is one temple,...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhāskara.
Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad guṇāḥ. If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has no knowledge. He's a rascal, immediately. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This is the definition given by... If he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's immediately miscreant, rascal, and lowest of the mankind. (break) ...may say that he has passed M.A., Ph.D., D.A.C.(?) and he's a philosopher. But we..., our test is whether he's God conscious. If not, he's a rascal. That's all. Immediately.
Hari-śauri: No good qualities.
Prabhupāda: No. Reject immediately.
Prabhupāda: There are different groups. I know that. But I do not go in detail to understand them. But our..., we have got a crucial test. That anyone who is..., does not know about Kṛṣṇa, he is put into four different types of categories as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. One category is that he is sinful. Another category is that he is rascal. Another category is that he's lowest of the mankind. Another category is that his so-called knowledge is taken away by illusory energy. So this is our test. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, that
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
Anyone who is not talking about God, he is either of these group: sinful, rascal, lowest of the mankind, and knowledge taken away by illusion. This is our conclusion, and that's a fact. Because a person who does not know about God, what he is? He is animal. The animal has no knowledge about God. But a human being, if he poses himself to be very learned, then he must have knowledge about God, otherwise what is his knowledge?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I read one anthropology book, and it said that about 3,500 years ago in India people were only living in all the caves, and they were simply using stones and things like that, very primitive tools. No knowledge at all.
Mahendra: But they cannot explain how it was that these people evolved, these cavemen evolved such a language as Sanskrit, which not even the greatest scholar today can even begin to comprehend. It is a very great language.
Prabhupāda: That is their grudge. When they see such exalted literature, they are envious.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why don't we cut over?
Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, we can walk over this way? There's no water.
Prabhupāda: Mostly. They have no knowledge. Material. Prākṛta-sahajiyā. Their real name is prākṛta. Their thoughts are on this material platform. Just as they are preferring this conjugal love because here the sex is prominent. They are thinking that is the highest stage. What is the lowest stage here, they're taking that as the highest stage. In the.... Of course, in the spiritual world there is such thing, but as Kṛṣṇa has many other līlās, why they are not attracted to other līlās?
Rāmeśvara: They don't want to be limited. They think that Kṛṣṇa is the kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So why...
Prabhupāda: That is good. That is always true, but Kṛṣṇa says,
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
How you have understood Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, "Out of many millions of people, one becomes siddha, and out of many millions of siddhas, hardly one can understand Me." So how you have understood Kṛṣṇa so easily, within two years? What you have understood Kṛṣṇa, that is materially understood.
Prabhupāda: No knowledge. That is animal. That is animal.
Rāmeśvara: Then how is he benefited? You explained it, as he is being promoted he is being corrected.
Prabhupāda: Corrected, yes.
Rāmeśvara: But if he cannot understand God...
Prabhupāda: No, there is no need of.... Different stages of body.... Just like you are going up one step, another step, another step. There is no need of going, "What is this?" But you are going up, step by step.
Mahendra: In the Bhagavad-gītā, you explain that one takes a specific birth due to a specific degree of lust.
Prabhupāda: Yes, mental situation.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, mother it is. Mother means who begets, who gives birth. You practically see, grass to the highest form of life, they are coming from earth, living at the cost of the earth. The earth is supplying food, food grains, vegetables. So mother..., as child is growing by sucking the mother's breast, so we are living at the cost of mother. She is giving us milk, she is giving us everything. That is mother. And śāstra, the earth is considered mother. Ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhmaṇī... but they have no knowledge. Mother means who creates my body, who gives me feeding in the beginning, gives me strength. That is mother. How you can understand mother otherwise? So mother is there, earth. Dhenur dhātrī tathā pṛthvī. Pṛthvī is mother. And practically we see. She is giving, the mother earth is giving birth to so many varieties of children-8,400,000. Then the next inquiry should be: the mother is there, the children are there, then where is the father?
Hari-śauri: Purport. "While discussing the subject of this body and the owner of the body, the soul and the Supersoul, we shall find three different topics of study: the Lord, the living entity, and matter. In every field of activities, in every body, there are two souls: the individual soul and the Supersoul. Because the Supersoul is the plenary expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, 'I am also the knower, but I am not the individual owner of the body. I am the superknower. I am present in every body as the Paramātmā, or Supersoul.' One who studies the subject matter of the field of activity and the knower of the field very minutely, in terms of this Bhagavad-gītā, can attain to knowledge. The Lord says: 'I am the knower of the field of activities in every individual body.' The individual may be the knower of his own body, but he is not in knowledge of other bodies. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is present as the Supersoul in all bodies, knows everything about all bodies. He knows all the different bodies of all the various species of life. A citizen may know everything about his patch of land, but the king knows not only his palace but all the properties possessed by the individual citizens. Similarly, one may be the proprietor of the body individually, but the Supreme Lord is the proprietor of all bodies. The king is the original proprietor of the kingdom, and the citizen is the secondary proprietor. Similarly, the Supreme Lord is the supreme proprietor of all bodies. The body consists of senses. The Supreme Lord is Hṛṣīkeśa, which means controller of the senses. He is the original controller of the senses, just as the king is the original controller of all the activities of the state, and the citizens are secondary controllers. The Lord also says, 'I am also the knower.' This means that He is the superknower; the individual soul knows only his particular body. In the Vedic literature, it is also stated..."
Prabhupāda: Just like pains and pleasure. You know your bodily pains and pleasure, I know my body. But I do not know your bodily pains, neither you know mine. But God knows everyone's pains and pleasures. That is the difference between God and individual soul.
Prabhupāda: Just like pains and pleasure. You know your bodily pains and pleasure, I know my body. But I do not know your bodily pains, neither you know mine. But God knows everyone's pains and pleasures. That is the difference between God and individual soul.
Hari-śauri: "This body is called kṣetra, and within it dwells the owner of the body and the Supreme Lord, who knows both the body and the owner of the body. Therefore He is called the knower of all fields. The distinction between the field of activities, the owner of activities, and the supreme owner of activities is described as follows. Perfect knowledge of the constitution of the body, the constitution of the individual soul, and the constitution of the Supersoul is known in terms of Vedic literature as jñānam. That is the opinion of Kṛṣṇa. To understand both the soul and the Supersoul as one yet distinct is knowledge. One who does not understand the field of activity and the knower of activity is not in perfect knowledge. One has to understand the position of prakṛti, nature, and puruṣa, the enjoyer of the nature, and īśvara, the knower who dominates or controls nature and the individual soul. One should not confuse the three in their different capacities. One should not confuse the painter, the painting and the easel. This material world, which is the field of activities, is nature, and the enjoyer of nature is the living entity, and above them both is the supreme controller, the Personality of Godhead. It is stated in the Vedic language: bhoktā bhogyaṁ preritāraṁ ca matvā/ sarvaṁ proktaṁ tri-vidhaṁ brahmam etat. There are three Brahman conceptions: prakṛti is Brahman as the field of activities, and the jīva (individual soul) is also Brahman and is trying to control material nature, and the controller of both of them is also Brahman, but He is the factual controller. In this chapter it will be also explained that out of the two knowers, one is fallible and the other is infallible. One is superior and the other is subordinate. One who understands the two knowers of the field to be one and the same contradicts the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who states here very clearly that 'I am also the knower of the field of activity.' One who misunderstands a rope to be a serpent is not in knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara must be the best candidate. Others, what they'll know about it? All other Ph.D.s, they are simply rubber stamped. Actually they have no knowledge. Svarūpa Dāmodara has solid knowledge. He has learned from us. Therefore he's writing all these books. He has rejected his so-called scientific knowledge. He has completely understood that so-called scientific knowledge is bogus, it has no solid background. Now he's writing books on this. Now this morning, last night also, I got hint from Bhāgavatam, I told you in the morning? The sun planet is first. And nobody can reply this, that "Why Sunday first?" Nobody has replied this point. Sunday, Monday.... First of all Sunday, then Monday. Why not Monday, Sunday? That is according to the planetary arrangement. The Saturn is the last planet. That is admitted in the Bhāgavatam. So sun is first, then moon, then Mars, then Jupiter, like that, last, Saturn. That is everywhere. So why the modern scientists changing it? The Monday first or moon first, sun second. Hmm? What is your reply. You sometimes support them.
Prabhupāda: ...recently I said all these so-called gurus are either rascals, miscreant, lowest of the mankind, or they have no knowledge. Not directly, indirectly.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How's that, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: That is fact. These rascals come here for women and money, that's all. They do not know what is spiritual life. If I say like that, you think it is right or wrong?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You're right.
Devotee: Good idea. You didn't compromise.
Prabhupāda: Why compromise? (break)
Prabhupāda: Because they are not devotee. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. Mām ebhyaḥ param, mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ parama-avyayam. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. They have no knowledge.
Satsvarūpa: They think that if they follow, they'll still be misled. "Why should I believe? It may not be true."
Prabhupāda: But you are already misled. Why not be second time misled? You are already misled, thousand times. Why not try once more. You are making so much arrangement to live comfortably, but you are kicked out. Are you not misled? Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. You are thinking that by adjustment of this external energy, you will be able to live very happily. Is it possible? You are trying, problem after problem, problem after problem. So you are already misled.
Satsvarūpa: You've said, "Just give this one life to Kṛṣṇa. You've misgambled so many lives. Why not give one to Kṛṣṇa?"
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break) People are being kept in such an ignorant way that they do not care about sinful activities. They can do anything for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Actually, there is no advancement of civilization. They are thinking, they are running on four-wheel motorcar, and the dog is running on four legs. What is the quality change? This is going on in the name of civilization, and people are kept in ignorance. Where is the advancement? Running by motorcar is advancement? They have no knowledge that there is next life, and "Today I am running on Ford car, tomorrow I may have to run like dog on four legs."
Kīrtanānanda: They do not think like that.
Prabhupāda: There was no preaching. There was no education on this subject. The Christian priests, they are unable to...
Kīrtanānanda: They have no knowledge themselves. How they can teach?
Hari-śauri: They are all giving up out of hopelessness themselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are now asking... In Melbourne the priest asked me, "Swamiji, why Christian religion is dwindling? What we have done?" I told them, "What you have not done?" (laughs) They were little insulted.
Hari-śauri: That first time you visited that monastery, the man that was in charge, the head monk there, after you had visited, a short while later he left and he went to India looking for enlightenment.
Prabhupāda: That means you are not in knowledge, and still you are a professor. You become a student like me. Why you are occupying the post of a professor? That means you are cheating. You are calling yourself as professor, the teacher, and you do not know? Give up this post; come to my position.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Immediately revolution.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Talk like sensible man. Don't cheat others, that you have no knowledge and still you say "I am professor." Why you are cheating people?
Kīrtanānanda: They say that real knowledge is to know that there is no such thing as absolute knowledge but simply this process of searching for knowledge.
Prabhupāda: No. That is ignorance. As knowledge you are receiving... Just like I've come to you, I'm a layman, I've come to you for knowledge. Unfortunately, you have not received knowledge from that source. Therefore you are useless. I cannot have knowledge from you. Knowledge means to take it from higher personality. That is knowledge. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Knowledge means you have to receive it from a superior person. Otherwise, there is no knowledge.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So, for example, if one is learning how to count or how to read...
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has to learn it from the teacher. Two plus two equal to four. One, two, three, four, like that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But actually one can understand the Absolute Truth without such knowledge.
Prabhupāda: There is no such man. It is a nonsense, another non...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is advancement of knowledge. Otherwise, what is the difference between this bird and the human being? He's also dancing very jolly, but he has no knowledge that he's not this body. So if the human being also remains falsely jolly without any knowledge of his existence, then what is the difference between these birds, dogs and human beings? Why we say low grade, animals? He's living in his own way. He has got all the facilities of eating, sleeping, sex and defense. Just you have all the same things. Where is the difference between you and him? Why you say advanced in knowledge?
Rakṣaṇa: Nowadays they say that they're advanced in knowledge even without any sophistication at all, while Arjuna, when he was giving his arguments to Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: As a gentleman, if you go to somebody's house, you require his permission, but India, still, a sannyāsī doesn't require any permission. He can enter in any householder's house: "Mother, give me some food." This is the introduction. Not that he has gone there for food, but easy introduction. And generally the householder will receive a sannyāsī, "Yes, Swamiji, come here, sit down." They will offer obeisances and then they begin talks. This is the meaning. Not that he is hankering after food. This is only introduction. He's not a beggar. But people take advantage of this dress because they think that "Without any work I can beg and live." That is going on in India. So many rascals, they are taking this sannyāsī dress and living at the cost of others. Therefore people have become disgusted. They have no knowledge to preach. Yes, go on.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Purport. "The demoniac accept that the enjoyment of the senses is the ultimate goal of life, and this concept they maintain until death. They do not believe in life after death, and they do not believe that one takes on different types of bodies according to one's karma, or activities in this world. Their plans for life are never finished, and they go on preparing plan after plan, all of which are never finished. We have personal experience of a person of such demoniac mentality, who, even at the point of death, was requesting the physician to prolong his life for four years more because his plans were not yet complete. Such foolish people do not know that a physician cannot prolong life even for a moment. When the notice is there, there is no consideration of the man's desire. The laws of nature do not allow a second beyond what one is destined to enjoy. The demoniac person, who has no faith in God or the Supersoul within himself, performs all kinds of sinful activities simply for sense gratification. He does not know that there is a witness sitting within his heart. The Supersoul is observing the activities of the individual soul. As it is stated in the Vedic literature, the Upaniṣads, there are two birds sitting in one tree; the one is acting and enjoying or suffering the fruits of the branches, and the other is witnessing. But one who is demoniac has no knowledge of Vedic scripture, nor has he any faith; therefore he feels free to do anything for sense enjoyment, regardless of the consequences."
Prabhupāda: Now discuss any points.
Prabhupāda: Jñāna, what is jñāna? Jñāna means... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So unless one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, there is no jñāna. This is all nonsense. And they're passing as jñāna. There is no knowledge at all. Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. So ultimate knowledge, the subject matter of ultimate knowledge is Kṛṣṇa, God. So if one does not know who is God, who is Kṛṣṇa, then where is knowledge? This is fact, the knowledge, but if a rascal claims that "I am man of knowledge," then what can be done? Knowledge is explained, that when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything.... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one understands that Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything, then that is knowledge. Before that, there is no knowledge. It is simply misunderstanding. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11).
Prabhupāda: And that Vedānta-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsaḥ. Now here Arjuna is experienced, "You are the Supreme Brahman." So he has seen the Supreme Brahman. So you make Arjuna guru, Kṛṣṇa guru. Arjuna is representative of Kṛṣṇa, friend of Kṛṣṇa. So why do you go to a bogus guru? You must be cheated. Guru is essential. It is necessary. But take the real guru. But if you go to the bogus guru, you must be disappointed. For your treatment you need to go to a physician. That's all. When you are diseased you cannot say, "No, no, I don't want to..." It is necessary. But go to the real physician. Don't go to a cheater. He has no knowledge in the medical science, and he places himself as "I am physician, MD." Then you'll be cheated. The guru is necessary, that's a fact. But go to the real guru. Who is real guru? Real guru is Kṛṣṇa or one who has seen Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna. Take them. Then you'll be benefitted. And if you go to a bogus man who does not know Kṛṣṇa, who does not know what is Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then you must be cheated.
Prabhupāda: These boys are playing with Kṛṣṇa. Who is Kṛṣṇa? He is the essence of Brahma-sukha, Param Brahman. So these boys are playing with Param Brahman. Itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena. And for the devotees He's the supreme master, and for the ordinary man He is ordinary child. But these other children who are playing, they have got this position kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. "After many, many births' pious activities, now I have got this position, playing with Kṛṣṇa on equal terms." So this is the conception of devotional service, that when you go to the Goloka Vṛndāvana you cannot distinguish.... But they have got unflinching love for Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana life. The cows, the calves, the trees, the flowers, the water, the elderly men, Nanda Mahārāja and Yaśodāmayī, everyone is attached, central point is Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is loving Kṛṣṇa. And there is no such knowledge that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality.... Sometimes they see Kṛṣṇa's wonderful activities and they talk on: "Kṛṣṇa may be some demigod. He has come here." But they could never recognize that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Prabhupāda: They don't want to worship anyone. They want to worship their senses. That's all. Sense gratification. What is dictated by the senses, they agree to worship. Servant of the senses. In the material world nobody worships nobody. Everyone serves his own senses: "I like it." That's all. There is a Bengali song, yoke yadi lage phala kena dag botai(?). "If it satisfies my eyes, why shall I not see? I shall see." This is the sum-substance of... Yoke yadi lage phala kena dag bhajai.(?) Everyone wants sense gratification, to be servant of the senses. If the senses want "Do this," he will do it. And our movement is that we shall not hear the dictation of the senses; we shall do what Kṛṣṇa says. That is just opposite. So long I am carrying out the orders of the senses, then I am involved in this material birth, death, transmigration. Today I am running on this nice car. Next I can stand up here as a tree. Who can check it? After death you are completely under the... You are... Your life also completely under the laws of nature. So there is no discussion, no understanding, no knowledge about this. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change our body. What kind of body we are going to get, nobody knows. This life is everything. This body is everything. Very risky. They do not inquire even wherefrom this body has come. They are also coming. They are also living. They are also eating. The trees, they are also eating water.
Prabhupāda: Not outside. Not like England, they have to import from... This is a very good example. Just like salt, we require. A little salt will increase the taste. But because it is absolutely necessary for eating, salt—everyone eats salt, nobody can avoid salt—it does not mean I shall eat too much. If I take this whole salt pot and put into..., "It is very good," that is foolishness. Similarly, sense gratification, so long we have got this material body, we require little. But because it is tasty, let us take it, whole pot, that is mistake. This is going on. This foolishness is going on. Sex life is good; simply take sex life, go on and spoil your whole life. That is going on. If everything is accepted in regulative principle, little salt, that's all, that's very nice. But as soon as you think "It is very nice. Let me take simply this," then it is spoiled. That is wanted. We don't reject anything but accept in a regular way. Flesh eaters? All right, you want flesh? "No, I want flesh, but I want this big cow." Why not less important animals? There are so many other animals. The goats are there, the lambs are there, the hogs are there. Take them. Why Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya? It is a very important animal. It will give you brain substance, this rasagullā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya. But this rascal has no knowledge. The cows give us milk, very nutritious. "Oh, eat the whole cow. Then all nutrition will come." This is their intelligence. Rubbish civilization. Why Kṛṣṇa has recommended go-rakṣya? He never said that other animal. If you are fond of eating flesh, you take other animals, not the cow.
Prabhupāda: If there is no such acceptance, where is religion?
Hari-śauri: It just becomes a show. Religion nowadays has degenerated so that people more or less accept it just as some moral code now, because there's no knowledge of God.
Prabhupāda: So where is that morality?
Hari-śauri: (laughs) There's no morality either.
Prabhupāda: While hunting, drinking, meat-eating, is that morality?
Hari-śauri: No. (end)
Prabhupāda: The life comes from the man. The living entity takes shelter of the semina, and the semina is discharged in the womb of the woman, and if the situation is favorable, then the living entity remains there and that body develops. This is pregnancy. And that yoni, that mother, is situated, selected by daiva-netreṇa, by superior management: "This man has worked..., this living entity has worked in such a way, he should go to such and such womb." Then if he goes to a queen's womb he becomes a prince; if he goes to the dog's womb he becomes a dog. The mother gives the body. And the superior's order is there, "Now you must go to the dog's womb. He must go to the queen's womb." Otherwise, how it is from the birth one is prince, another is dog, if there is no superior? Who likes to become a dog? No. But according to his karma, by superior arrangement, he has to take. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). He has infected the contamination of material modes of nature, and he must develop a type of body according to that consciousness. Just like if you contaminate some disease, germ, then you must suffer from that disease. This is the mystery of birth. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Otherwise, why there are difference of varieties of life? Sat, asat, something good, something bad. That he does not know. He works independently, defies the laws of nature, and becomes implicated. And on account of dull brain, he is punished, "Stand up here for ten thousands of years. Become a tree," that's all. That is the result of his dullness. "Remain here for ten thousand years, a dull brain. Even one cuts, you cannot protest. You suffer all kinds of natural disturbances." This is very sinful when you become a tree. And they do not make any distinction between life and matter. These things are going on. There is no knowledge, and they are passing as scientist, as philosopher.
Prabhupāda: One, the origin of life, and the other, planetary system. There is no knowledge. They are simply speculating.
Rākṣana: It is correct that the illumination of the moon is caused by the movement of the vegetation on the surface?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rākṣana: So it should be fairly easy for scientists to prove, Svarūpa Dāmodara and such, that.... I know they can't prove there is illumination caused by the deserts.
Prabhupāda: That is the point. Therefore it is doubtful whether they have gone there.
Devotee (1): Did they go to some other planet, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: That is different question. But they did not go to the moon planet.
Vipina: In the Bhāgavatam you also explain that the moon is about 1,600,000 miles away, so they couldn't have gone. It's beyond the sun, you said, Prabhupāda? (break)
Prabhupāda: These are miracles, that's all. It has no value. People are after miracles. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Those who are worshipers of other demigods, they are hṛta-jñānāḥ. Hṛta-jñānāḥ. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives his comment, hṛta-jñānāḥ naṣṭa buddhayaḥ, one who has lost his intelligence. So by worshiping the demigod Kali he is to be considered as hṛta-jñānāḥ, one who has lost his intelligence—and he becomes God. Is it possible? One who has lost his intelligence, he becomes God. With that lost intelligence. And this is the proof that on account of lost intelligence, he says yata mata tata pat. Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam. Sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). And when he became Ramakrishna, same Kṛṣṇa is speaking, yata mata tata pat. So he has changed his view. We have to accept this? And how he gave up his wife, that's a long history, I don't wish to discuss. We know everything. So we cannot accept something which is beyond the instruction of śāstra.
- yaḥ śāstra vidhim utsṛjya
- vartate kāma kārataḥ
- na sa siddhim avāpnoti
- na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim
- (BG 16.23)
If you have no knowledge of the śāstra, then you'll never be successful in your spiritual life, what to speak of happiness and liberation. It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: What is the purport?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "While discussing the subject of this body and the owner of the body, the soul and the Supersoul, we shall find three different topics of study: the Lord, the living entity, and matter. In every field of activities, in every body, there are two souls: the individual soul and the Supersoul. Because the Supersoul is the plenary expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, 'I am also the knower, but I am not the individual owner of the body. I am the superknower. I am present in every body as the Paramātmā, or Supersoul.' One who studies the subject matter of the field of activity and the knower of the field very minutely, in terms of this Bhagavad-gītā, can attain to knowledge. The Lord says: 'I am the knower of the field of activities in every individual body.' The individual may be the knower of his own body, but he is not in knowledge of other bodies.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "In this chapter it will also be explained that out of the two knowers, one is fallible and the other is infallible; one is superior and the other subordinate. One who understands the two knowers of the field to be one and the same contradicts the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who states here very clearly that 'I am also the knower of the field of activity.' One who misunderstands a rope to be a serpent is not in knowledge."
Prabhupāda: He says "I am also." Ksetrajñaṁ ca. Ca means "also." They are two. Individual, kṣetrajñaḥ, and the collective, kṣetrajñaṁ ca. There is kṣetrajñam, I am also there. They are two, not one. Ksetrajñaṁ cāpi ca api, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi. As soon as there is ca, "and," then there are two. Not one. One is subordinate and one is supreme. Therefore He is addressed, paraṁ brahma. Brahma..., jīva is also Brahman. But He is Param Brahman. Paramātmā: Jīva is also ātmā, but He is Paramātmā. Parameśvara: jīva is also īśvara, but He is Parameśvara. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). This is Vedic version. There are īśvaras, controllers, many controllers, but parama controller, Parameśvara, is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the intelligent question. If you do not know who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and how He is satisfied, then you are lacking knowledge. That is being instructed in the Bhagavad-gītā. God Himself is instructing how you can satisfy Him. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). It is not very difficult. Anyone can do it. "Just always think of Me," God says, Kṛṣṇa says. "Always think of Me." Just as we think of our friend, of our master, of our beloved, similarly we can think of God also. There is no difficulty. But if you have no knowledge about God, how you can think of God? That is the defect. So the..., how God is satisfied, that is there, but if you do not do it... That is our business, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. God says that "You always think of Me, you become My devotee, you just offer Me obeisances, just worship Me," four things. Anyone can do it. It is not difficult.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that these persons, they are holding the... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). A blind man, he has no eyes, and still, he's leader of other blind men. Is it possible? A blind man, he is blind man, he has no knowledge, and still, he's leading other blind men. This is a very dangerous position. He has no actual knowledge, simply speculating, putting theories and formulas, and they are leaders of the society.
Rūpānuga: We have to stop this.
Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise people are misled. It is not the duty of education to mislead people. Real knowledge should be given. To become a great misleader and take some title, that is not good.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not talking of so many gurus... We are talking of real guru. That's all, real guru. Real guru is he who talks in disciplic succession of Kṛṣṇa. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). That is guru. The bhumi-phala (?) guru is no guru. Avaiṣṇavo gurur na sa syāt. "Anyone who is not Vaiṣṇava, he is not guru." Or He says in the Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavān, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Find out this. He is guru who is preaching what Kṛṣṇa has taught. He is guru, not that anyone and everyone becomes guru. No. If you want to be cheated by such rascal guru, that is your business, but who is guru, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. No? Anyone who preaches the teachings of Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become a guru on My order." "How shall I become guru? I have no knowledge." Oh, you don't require any knowledge to manufacture. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "Simply repeat the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, you become guru."
Prabhupāda: We are not talking of so many gurus, we are talking of real guru, that's all, real guru. Real guru is he who talks in disciplic succession of Kṛṣṇa. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). That is guru. The bumifor(?) guru is no guru. Avaiṣṇavo gurur na syāt. Anyone who is not Vaiṣṇava, he's not guru. First, He says in the Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavān, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Find out this. He is guru, who is preaching what Kṛṣṇa has taught, he's guru. Not that anyone and everyone becomes a guru. If you want to be cheated by such rascal guru, that is your business, but who is guru, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Anyone who preaches the teachings of Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). "You become a guru on My order." "How shall I become guru? I have no knowledge." Oh, you don't require any knowledge to manufacture. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). "Simply repeat the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, you become guru."
Prabhupāda: Yes, not only United States, but everywhere people do not know what is spiritual life. They have no knowledge how to develop spiritual life, although it is... The only business of human form of life is to understand spiritual life.
Interviewer: Are you retiring now?
Prabhupāda: I'm always retired. I began this movement in my retirement.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said he was always retired, and he began... After retiring, he began this movement.
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by retired life?
Prabhupāda: And besides that, even we are claiming to be very materially advanced, we do not know everything of the material world. Just like so big universe, material, what do you know about that? We have no knowledge practically. Even of the material world we have no sufficient knowledge, what to speak of the spiritual world.
Interviewer: Could you tell me something about your altar?
Prabhupāda: Which altar? This Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Lord Nityānanda, we are worshiping Him.
Rāmeśvara: The two figures on the throne of the altar represent an incarnation of God named Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityānanda, and They both appeared in India approximately five hundred years ago. They are incarnations of God, God Himself, who descends into this world. So those forms represent the Supreme Lord. Therefore we are worshiping Them. And below, on the step, are the pictures of the spiritual masters coming in the disciplic succession from Lord Caitanya when He appeared in this world five hundred years ago.
Prabhupāda: Now, just you try. We are trying to give enlightenment about the driver of the car. Because the driver of the car is always important, either on the car or without the car. And people in general they are giving importance to the car only. They have no knowledge of the driver. The car requires petrol and the driver requires nice food. So people in general, when they see that we are not giving petrol to the driver, they are surprised.
Interviewer: When they see that you are not giving a role to the driver?
Bali-mardana: Petrol.
Interviewer: Oh, petrol.
Prabhupāda: They think that petrol is the food of the driver. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: At the present moment we are giving up one material body and accepting another material body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). This is our conditional life, but we are kept in such dense darkness of knowledge that we are thinking that "We are free. We can do whatever we like." This is very dangerous civilization—no knowledge of the spiritual life, no knowledge how the soul is transmigrating from one body to another, no knowledge what is the future, no knowledge what is the goal of life. Simply like cats and dogs, you dance, eat, drink, be merry and die, that's all. This is not good life. You must be very serious, especially those who are Indians. They should take it very seriously. Because this Kṛṣṇa culture, Bhagavad-gītā, was spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra in India, and we Indians, we do not take full advantage of this great transcendental knowledge, then you are committing suicide. So my request is, all the Indians who are here in this foreign country, keep your own original culture. Don't forget.
Prabhupāda: So you keep that.... (break) They are opening hospital for giving medicine to the shirt and coat, and where is the man's medicine? Washing the shirt and coat, laundry work. They do not know that the man within the shirt and coat requires different treatment, different, he has got different necessities, different life. If I simply wash the shirt and coat, does it mean the man is happy? They have no common sense even. "Yes, we are supplying petrol to the car. It must drive." "Well, sir, to give good to the driver who will drive?" "Doesn't require, petrol is there." That's all. This is their intelligence. They are supplying petrol. Will the driver eat, drink petrol? They have no knowledge. He requires spiritual food. And these rascals, they do not know it. They'll say that petrol is sufficient both for the car and the driver. This is their intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Life is everywhere. This bogus theory there is no life, the atmosphere is different, it is bogus, simply bogus. Because spirit soul is never affected by any material atmosphere. That is the distinction between matter and spirit. It has nothing to do with this material atmosphere. They don't have knowledge, they are baffled. And those who have no knowledge, they are accepting.
Nandarāṇī: If someone accepts his dependence on God, then what is the second step? In preaching, so someone has accepted, "Yes, we are dependent on God," but actually they have no knowledge who God is.
Prabhupāda: Give them knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā. If you accept dependence on God, then you take instruction from God, how you'll be happy. Just like a child. The child knows he's fully dependent on parents. So he's fully obeying the orders of the parents, then he's happy, naturally. The father, mother, knows how to take care of the child and they're happy. And by nature they're dependent on father and mother. So they are happy. Mother says, "My dear child, sit down." He will sit down. By nature.
Prabhupāda: That is the highest knowledge. It doesn't matter whether you are Muhammadan, Christian or Hindu or this or that. Whether you know God and you have fully surrendered to Him, then it is perfect. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevamalam. If you simply perform the ritualistic ceremonies very strictly, but you have no idea of God, you have no knowledge how to love Him, it is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam.
Prabhupāda: Fortune you create. Man is the architect of his own fortune. If you don't accept Kṛṣṇa's advice, then unfortunate. But my business is not difficult. We are simply going door to door and asking, "Sir, you become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." If he is inquisitive, "How can I become?" "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So where is my difficulty? Haven't got to pay you something. I simply carry the message of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya (BG 18.69). "He's My most beloved person, who does this." So why shall I give up this simple job and become recognized by Kṛṣṇa? It is very simple thing. That is the advice of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). "All of you become guru and deliver these persons where you live." So how can I become guru? I have no education, I have no knowledge. No, no. You haven't got to-yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). "You go and simply instruct him what Kṛṣṇa has said, you become guru." So Kṛṣṇa has said, "Surrender unto Me," I say "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa," I become guru. Even though I am a fool number one, I become guru, because I am repeating what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. I don't require any education. Very simple thing. Everyone can become guru if he simply repeats what Kṛṣṇa has said, that's all.
Prabhupāda: So how long they'll present the same theory over and over again? They're already putting the same thing. They have concluded in the moon there is rocks and sand, nobody can live. The same thing they are saying in a different way, and in the end they will have to say like that. Because they have no knowledge, it is simply theoretical. And they have no other alternative but to say the same thing again and again. What they will say?
Jñānagamya: They say on Mars there can be life because the conditions are a little bit like earth.
Prabhupāda: Suppose there is life, then what you gain?
Devotee: They say that our knowledge now is not mere theoretical because now we have gone there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your inquisiti... You have got born inquisitiveness, jijñāsu, that is especially manifested in human form of life. So for jijñāsu it is recommended, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). You have to go to the proper person. So that we are not doing. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). These are the Vedic injunctions. Jijñāsu is our natural instinct, but we go to who has no knowledge. That is the difficulty. We are misled. But the knowledge is there already, the Vedic knowledge is there. There are so many Vedas, Upaniṣads, Vedānta-sūtra, and Bhagavad-gītā, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, Purāṇas, but there is no systematic study of this literature. We are neglecting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Miseries of life, real miseries of life that you are soul, eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. There is no birth, there is no death. So therefore the birth and death is real misery. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is knowledge. But they have no brain. It is clearly said that na jāyate na mriyate vā. But these rascals never think "Why I am getting birth? Why I am dying?" So rascal. It is clearly said na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Where is that education? They do not know what is miseries. And they are trying, struggling to get out of misery. But they have no knowledge what is the actual misery. And therefore Kṛṣṇa pointing out, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is knowledge. Simply wasting time. They do not know what is the problem of life and how to solve it. They have no education. So which way? Which way?
Prabhupāda: So we have got big program. Any amount of money you bring to us, we shall spend it immediately. (pause) (kīrtana in background) (break) There is a logic, andha-paṅgu-nyāya. One man is blind. Another man is lame. Both are useless. When they combined together the lame man was taken by the blind man. So the lame man has got eyes, he was giving direction, "Go this way." So both their work was done. So I say that India is lame and America is blind. Let us combine together. Then we can give a great culture for the benefit of the whole human society. India has no money-lame. And they have got money but they have no knowledge. So let us combine together. This is logic. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. So by this cooperation they have... When I was in India I published three parts of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam with great difficulty. And now since I have gone there I am publishing every month a book. So on account of their cooperation we are able to publish so many books and organize the sale all over the world. But it is true that this culture is very much welcome all over the world.
Prabhupāda: It is Indian culture.
Krishna Modi: Indian culture. Then he told me that you are perfectly right and I am also an Indian and I have that right also that we have no knowledge about all these things. If you have something then you please let us know so that we may inquire the particular matter. And I told him that you inquire first and then why I should have to inquire. Why I have? There is no matter, no anything, then how can I give the order for inquiry. On what basis? Let the something come, then I will... And I told them that why you are harassing? This sign, this sign, all these things, this passport, and in all these things, and you say that you go over and, Why you are...? Visa.
Prabhupāda: Because with this something, as soon as one will stick to this something, he'll suffer. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because he has accepted this rascal situation, asat. Asat means either temporary or bad. Asat. (Hindi) Temporary or useless. So this material world is... Temporary we can know it is. But it is useless, that we do not know. Therefore we struggle. "Let me go, let me fight, fight, fight, fight." That is māyā. (Hindi) You know that? A man is sitting on the ass. And his hand just on the front of the gādhā, ass, he's putting some grass. And the gādhā is thinking, "I will eat this grass," he's going forward. But the grass is also going forward. This is very instructive. The grass is, say one feet above his head. And the man is sitting on his back. But because this gādhā does not know that "Actually this man is sitting on my... As soon as I go forward, the grass also goes forward." But because he's ass, he does not know. He thinks that "If I go a little forward I'll get the grass." But he has no knowledge that the arrangement is so made that as you go forward the grass also goes forward. Another example is that meerage, myrage? There is no water.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom he has drawn? He has speculated only, like a rascal. That's all. Wherefrom he got this thing? He has said that "It is my speculation." Speculation is no knowledge. You can speculate in your own way. Knowledge gathered from the authority, that is real knowledge. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) We have published even in Chinese language. European.
Indian man (8): With your comments or...?
Prabhupāda: No, comments means to explain the original verse.
Indian man (8): You have explained also in that copy?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: If I say, "What do you mean by God," they cannot give any clear definition. And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, "Here is God. Take Him." But they have no knowledge. They will say, "They are presenting some Hindu god," and then they do not accept Him.
Dr. Kneupper: What do you understand by that word God?
Prabhupāda: God means supreme controller.
Dr. Kneupper: Super?
Prabhupāda: Controller.
Dr. Kneupper: The master of the universe.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Prabhupāda: Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya, that one who is in possession of all the wealth, vīryasya all strength, all faith yaśasaḥ, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation, that is God. Now so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, He showed all these things. Aiśvaryasya... For example Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives and for each wife a different palace. And for each wife ten sons. Woman requires very nice accommodation, sons, husband, that is their ambition that He fulfilled, although he married sixteen thousand one hundred and eight wives. This is aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya. This so-called rascal Bhagavān, who has shown this? Why shall I accept this cheap god? Show me something that you are God. Seven years old Kṛṣṇa, He lifted the Govardhana hill. (Hindi) There is, but they have no knowledge to compare with the idea of God. So far knowledge is concerned, Bhagavad-gītā, left by Kṛṣṇa, it is adored all over the world. Especially nowadays we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and millions of copies we are selling. Now we are advertising, where is that picture? Million, 1.5 million.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So why should you be cheated? At least you go to a shop where gold is purchased and sold. Why should you go to a pan wala. If you have no such knowledge then you will get. You must know at least that gold has to be purchased from a merchant who is dealing in gold. If you do not know that, then you will be cheated.
Indian man: That becomes a problem, that people say that they are selling gold, but when you go to them, they are not selling gold.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is not problem. Problem is you do not know.
Indian man: Yes, that is accepted. Disciple doesn't know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And that Kṛṣṇa is explaining. Where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. There is no difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa. Suppose you have no knowledge about me, what is Swamiji. You may speculate, "Swamiji may be such and such, such and such." But if I explain myself, that "I am like this," then where is the difficulty? You haven't got to speculate. Because I am explaining. So you take that. You understand Kṛṣṇa. Why speculation?
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is no need of speculation. Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. You take the advantage of Kṛṣṇa's explanation. You understand Kṛṣṇa. What is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. I am explaining my position. You have to understand as I am explaining. You cannot explain me. That is not possible. There are so many secrets, I do not dis..., if I do not disclose, how you can explain it?
Prabhupāda: Similarly to go to the Absolute Truth, you begin with impersonal Brahman. Just as sunshine is impersonal, but everyone can see the sunshine is coming from the sun surface. Everyone knows that. Therefore the sunshine is not so important as the sunglobe. Similarly brahma-tattva-nirviśeṣa, nirākāra-brahma is there, but more important than is the localized aspect. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna (BG 18.61), God is all-pervading. The sunshine is all-pervading, and as Paramātmā He is also all-pervading. But if you can enter into the sunglobe, you will meet with the sun god. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god." So there is sun-god. Sun-god and the sun globe and the sunshine, they are one. But different stages of understanding. Similarly, Brahman understanding, Paramātmā understanding, then the Supreme Personality of Godhead understanding. Advaya-jñāna. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). But if you stop simply in the sunshine, that means you have no knowledge of the sun god or the sun globe. If you have simply knowledge of the sun globe, then you are not aware of what is the sun-god.
Prabhupāda: Is there any chance of opening?
Indian man: Yes. In Ahmedabad? Why not? There is no obstruction. The Christians have now opened up two centers. Arya-samaj has opened one. So there is no restriction. And these areas, like Ahmedabad or in some of the African countries where people have still no inclination or no knowledge of one particular kind of religion or particular thing, they are open to anything which is given to them.
Prabhupāda: There must be preacher, good preacher.
Indian man: Preacher of their language. But language (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Language can be managed if there is good preacher.
Prabhupāda: No, he is... He is tiger? Ācchā. Thank you. Hm. Go on.
Jagadīśa: People are lazy and unfortunate. They have no knowledge. And besides that, they are misled by foolish leaders. The leaders are intent only on deriving sense gratification from their so-called high position. In the Bhāgavatam also it is explained that men who are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses praise those men who do not glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a civilization of fools, a fool's paradise where the common people are allowed to elect from amongst them one so-called leader who is the biggest rascal because he doesn't know anything, and none of the others, the common, people know anything about the purpose of life, and yet this so-called leader becomes elected on the basis that he can do something to help suffering humanity. The material existence is nothing but a struggle against material nature which ultimately has no value. But it's an illusory struggle because of the spirit soul...
Prabhupāda: Why it has no value?
Prabhupāda: That is the real civilization. Soul is enwrapped with this material body and it has to be stopped. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). That is civilization. And he has no knowledge, na te viduḥ, what is the civilization. Then andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The rascal leader is also blind and the followers are blind, so both of them are doomed. Therefore the conclusion is, the modern civilization is misguided. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. Big, big leaders, they promises big, big ideal that "I shall give you this facility. Just elect me." What facility he will give? No facility. He gives some false promise and gets his election and claps. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He does not know what is the aim of life. Puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. He is animal also. And the other animals clapping, "Oh, we have got such a big leader." Big elephant, yes. (laughter) And elephant he may be, but he is, after all, a animal. What he'll do? Misguided. Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. You don't require any covering?
Prabhupāda: There are two sections, the impersonalist and the personalist. The personalists are the Vaiṣṇavas, and the impersonalists are the Māyāvādīs. So far the spiritual life is concerned, there is no difference. There is no difference. Just like Śaṅkara. Śaṅkarācārya said that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. The spiritual life is reality. And this is nonreality. But we say that this is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Kṛṣṇa said. We are follower of Kṛṣṇa. "This is a place of suffering. And if you come to Me then your suffering ends." So this world is condemned either by Śaṅkarācārya, or others, everyone. But the modern rascals, they have taken this world as everything. Therefore they are in ignorance. Do you follow? They have taken this world, this life of fifty years or sixty years, at most hundred years, as reality. These rascals have no knowledge that we have life after annihilation of this body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Who knows it? Bring big, big men, big, big politician.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They are showing some magic. Just like this child was being treated. So he could not check the process of death. Neither it is possible to stop the process of death. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha... Our real unhappiness is this-janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So otherwise why there is knowledge? He does not know what is the miserable condition of life. Everyone knows that he is going to die. He has taken birth; he has become old; he has suffered diseases. Then where is the solution? In America this yoga practice is very popular, and they want some solution of the miseries. But here it is said, "Where is the solution?" Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi is there. Where is your solution? You cannot stop death. Then where is the solution? This is cheating, that "I shall make solution of your suffering." But a intelligent man will say, "Can you make a solution of my death, of my old age, of my disease, of my birth?" That is knowledge. But they are poor fellows. They have no knowledge and they cheat. That's all. Where is solution? Solution is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), it is said. Otherwise cheating.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yoniṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life. That is the fact, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas." Fundamentally they have no knowledge.
Prabhupāda: The ignorance of law... Why? Why this human form of life? To know. Why you do not try to know it? Then you must be punished. Kṛṣṇa said, aśraddhadhānāḥ puruṣā. "If you are neglectful to know," dharmasyāsya parantapa, "this dharma, this science, this duty, what I am giving..." Aśraddadhānāḥ: "Eh! Bhagavad-gītā is..." Aśraddadhānāḥ. There is no śraddhā. Rascals. "Then the result will be mām aprāpya. He does not get Me." Then what is next? Nivartante: "He goes back." Where? Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani: (BG 9.3) "Again in the cycle of birth and death, birth and death." Again, after millions and millions of years, he'll come, again get the chance of human body, another chance to know. So this is the chance to know. You cannot expect the dog will know, the cat will know. You have got human being. You must know. The signboard, "Keep to the left," is meant for the human being. If the dog goes from right to the left, he is not to be punished, because he has no knowledge. This is common sense. But you cannot neglect. You are human being. You cannot say, "I did not see the signboard. I did not know the law.
Prabhupāda: Temporary, yes. So I am eternal. I must associate with eternity. Why shall I..., temporary. Suppose if somebody comes in India, American, that is his temporary residence. Why shall I accept India as everything? Similarly this body is another India or for Indian, American. It is temporary, asann, asat. Asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). This body is temporary. That you have no knowledge. Why shall I be attached to the temporary things? I am the owner of the body, I am reality, so I must realize myself. Self-realization. This is self-realization, that "I am not this body, I am pure soul, Brahman." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.
Dr. Patel: Even Jesus said so.
Prabhupāda: Christ said that if getting everything one loses his own soul... What is that?
Prabhupāda: Ah! Tamasa... "Don't remain in the darkness; come to the light." So this is the Vedic injunction. But we don't take advantage of the instruction. We think that "If I can make one table from a ordinary wooden plank, that is advancement." This is technology. This nice polished table is a transformation of the crude wooden plank. So if a crude wooden plank is transferred into nice table, we see: "Oh, this is advancement." What is actual benefit? I can do without this table. But we have taken: "This is advancement. Transforming the form of an element into another, that is advancement." So asate vilāsa. This is asat, this wood, either in crude form or in transferred form. So I am taking credit because a crude wood has been turned into a table. So that is my vilāsa. So sat saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. So I am now bound up. I can become a very nice carpenter. Does it mean that I am self-realized? If you have learned the art of turning crude wood into a table, nice table, you may get the credit of becoming a nice carpenter; that does not mean you are self-realized. They are taking credit of this turning crude wood into nice table, and they're thinking that "Our life is successful." This is going on. And the real technology, that "I am not this body; I have been put into this condition, and I am transmigrating from one body to another"—there is no such knowledge.
Hari-śauri: "...who even at the point of death was requesting the physician to prolong his life for four years more because his plans were not yet complete. Such foolish people do not know that a physician cannot prolong life even for a moment. When the notice is there, there is no consideration of the man's desire. The laws of nature do not allow a second beyond what one is destined to enjoy. The demoniac person, who has no faith in God or the Supersoul within himself, performs all kinds of sinful activities simply for sense gratification. He does not know that there is a witness sitting within his heart. The Supersoul is observing the activities of the individual soul. As it is stated in Vedic literature, the Upaniṣads, there are two birds sitting in one tree. One is acting and enjoying or suffering the fruits of the branches, and the other is witnessing. But one who is demoniac has no knowledge of Vedic scripture, nor has he any faith. Therefore he feels free to do anything for sense enjoyment, regardless of the consequence."
Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). So on the whole, people are in darkness. And that is going on as advancement. This is the only institution to give them some light. There is no doubt about it. All in the darkness. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are in darkness, and some leader comes, he is also in the darkness, and both of them fall into the ditch. This is going on. Do you agree to this point? Otherwise you cannot become good preacher. You must yourself, must be convinced that actually this is the position. All these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians—they're all in darkness, and they're misguiding people. That's all.
Prabhupāda: And they are trying to save harassment by nature's law. That is impossible. That is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, rascal, and under false prestige they are trying to save themselves. And ultimately crushed—death. Struggling, struggling... Now, last word—death. Finish. Now, according to your karma, "All right, you just become a tree." Finish. "Stand up here for five thousand years." This is nature's... And these rascal scientists have no knowledge of this, "Wherefrom the tree comes? Why the tree is standing there for five thousand years, and I have got good car? Why this difference of position? He is also living entity; I am also." They have no brain. That is also living entity. "This tree is dead." Dead means it has life. So wherefrom the life came? Who made him a tree and made him a prime minister? Who made him? They cannot answer all these questions. Simply blindly following their own mental concoction. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Everything is there.
Prabhupāda: It is stated clearly, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.20). Rascals are hṛta-jñānāḥ. They have no knowledge even.
Hari-śauri: Lusty desires within their heart.
Prabhupāda: Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ. For kāma... Just like one is lusty for sex, they are for false name. "I shall become God. People will adore me." This is their.... "And we shall bluff like this, by magic, word jugglery." This is the aim.
Hari-śauri: Simply cheating process.
Prabhupāda: No aim how to make people understand about God. They have no such, neither they do know personally. Their only aim is that "If I become a God-man, if I can bluff, jugglery of words and this magic and..., then I'll..." The same material thing, pratiṣṭha. As ordinary people, they are working so hard for some material gain, material reputation, these people are like that, in a different manner. This Satya Sai Baba, this Vivekananda, this, all of them, like that. They want some material position, misusing their mediocre knowledge. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But we are convinced that we have got authorities. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He cannot cheat me. He is perfect. So whatever knowledge He gives, that is our position, Kṛṣṇa conscious. "Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that's all." And that's a fact. But they do not take Kṛṣṇa as authority, but another rascal, Dr. Frog, he's authority. We believe Kṛṣṇa. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "Nobody is better authority than Me." And we see our gurus, they accept. So we are in safe side. Just like if a child takes information from his guru, mother, he's safe side. So we are in the safe side. They are not in the safe side. They are hovering, speculation. Speculation is no knowledge. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). And mental speculation means they will remain in ignorance because there is no knowledge. It is simply gymnastic of the mind. It is no knowledge.
Prabhupāda: No scarcity. Population increasing? You increase your food. So much land everywhere vacant, all over the world. But that they will not do. They will keep the cattles and eat. Cattle also, they want vegetables. Otherwise where you'll get cattle? But therefore in Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce food grains. Just like this is. How nice it is, from paddy. So you take the paddies, rice, eat, and the grass you can utilize in so many ways. Anywhere you can till the ground, you get paddy and the grass. Make your cottage. So shelter is there. And the animals also like this grass. You can make home. Where is the scarcity? Plain living, high thinking, and prepare for next life. Go back home, back to Godhead. Finish this hellish life of repeated birth and death. There is no knowledge. And when we try to give them this knowledge, they say, "You are brainwashed. You have imported some new way of life, style of life. Brainwash." So our European, American devotees, they like rice? No.
Prabhupāda: To present your case. Comparative study means impartially make comparison. There is no knowledge of God in there. They're all bogus. You cannot say that. But actually they... What do they know about God? They have simply a vague idea. So what is the use of comparison. Then you have to give your judgment—"It is all bogus." That they will not like to hear. But actually that is the position. What complain? What do they know about God? Simply they have got some idea, the Christianity, Muhammadanism, Hind..., everyone. Even Hinduism, they do not know. Therefore they worship so many demigods and ultimately they make nirākāra. Nobody knows God. This is the, perhaps, first time in the history of the world that we are presenting, "Here is God." Here is God. Nobody presented, neither they know it.
Prabhupāda: Hm, that is all right. I do not know.
Satsvarūpa: And they would be carefully...
Prabhupāda: No, I have no knowledge about these things. What is the use of consulting me?
Satsvarūpa: Well, I think it's to consult with you on the principle that they're not devotees...
Prabhupāda: I know that they made some books already. Why they are being rejected? Then again you make, and again rejecting. That is unnecessary.
Satsvarūpa: I see.
Prabhupāda: They can better translate in French so many books, the husband, wife. And the children's books there are already. (break) ...excess book had to be cancelled. They have already made.
Prabhupāda: No, Bhagavad-gītā says, nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ (BG 2.23). So what is there within the physical world that is not burned by fire? Where is that thing? But these rascals have no knowledge. It is clearly said indirectly. This is called negative definition: "It is not this." And because he has no brain to understand, so therefore Kṛṣṇa is explaining in the negative way that "You cannot cut by any weapon; you cannot burn it; it is never dried up." Because any physical thing, it can be cut, it can be dried up, it can be burned, it is just opposite. So many ways He has described, but the rascal will not accept. Find out what is that which is never burned. Anything you take, even big, big iron ore, they're burning. And it is clearly said, "It is not burned." Therefore they are thinking there is no living being in the sun planet. Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogam. I told... This is nonbeliever class, rascal class.
Prabhupāda: These things were not going nicely. Therefore gradually it broke. But if things are going nicely, people will be happy. They will not revolt. You have to keep the citizens satisfied in all respects. You must know the necessity how people are satisfied. You have to arrange the government in that way. Then there will be no revolution. Mass of people, if they are satisfied, they will not revolt. But they do not know the process. The "demoncracy," the common man is allowed to vote. He has no knowledge and he's voting. This is most condemned process. Camara-bhangi, a sweeper, he is voted to become Minister of Defense. His business is to cleanse the street, and now he's voted to become because he has got number of votes. So many bhangis, they vote, "Yes, he is our leader. He should be Defense Minister." You have to do that. This is democracy. His business is to sweep, and he's voted a defense minister.
Prabhupāda: Innocence, he..., like a child. But ignorant means he has no knowledge; he is animal. So what about the advertisement? He has not done?
Hari-śauri: The book advertisement? Did you see that? Prabhupāda wrote out an advertisement, "Read Hare Kṛṣṇa books, worldwide Hare Kṛṣṇa books, and be happy." Then he listed all the books and where to buy them from.
Prabhupāda: And I gave him 22,000 rupees.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gopāla Kṛṣṇa?
Hari-śauri: Yes. He was supposed to put it in all the newspapers.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't mention anything to me. I was there only for one day, but he did not mention it. I can write him if you want. He'll be coming here...
Hari-śauri: The 25th or 26th.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Ten days. I'm sure he must have done it, if you have told him to.
Prabhupāda: No, you say material; we say... We have full knowledge. We say material, but subtle material. But you have no knowledge; therefore you have no brain.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "What proof is there?" they may argue.
Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Now, if the real active principle has left, the brain has left, the mind has left—it is only a lump. You cannot understand. If you understand it, then replace it. If you cannot, then you have no brain. You have to prove that, that "You have no brain at all. Where is the question of brainwashing?"
Hari-śauri: But if we operate on a person's brain, actual brain substance, it affects his personality. So therefore the personality in the brain is the same.
Prabhupāda: Whatever you know, you give this man brain, mind, and again let him get up and work. I want this.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is worst. Because I am spirit soul, I am now imprisoned with this material body. It is my unnatural state, and I am eternal, and because I have accepted this material body I have to undergo birth, death, old age and disease. So that is my effort, how to get out of this material body and remain in my original spiritual identity. That is our whole propaganda. We think material atmosphere is our imprisonment, suffering. Material body means suffering. Otherwise I am eternal, blissful, full with knowledge. That is my position. But because I have been impact... (aside:) Again you have the same disease. Attention, you attend, draw there. Don't do that. Very bad habit. Immediately you sit down, you do it. You cannot check it. So actually this is our punishment. This is māyā. That example I have explained this morning, very nice verse, that the moon in the sky is reflected in the water, in hundreds of pots of water, and the wind is agitating the water, and the moon is also agitated—sometimes round, sometimes long, sometimes... The moon is fixed up, but the reflection in the pot making him different. Similarly, I am spirit soul, and I have been captured or I have voluntarily surrendered to this material world, and it is being agitated by the mind, so I am taking this shape, that shape, that shape, this shape, eight million four hundred... That is my trouble. My nature is to be fixed up, always illuminating, but circumstantially I am being agitated by mind, and working with my mind, I am accepting this body, that body, this body, that. So this is very troublesome. Those who have no knowledge, no brain, they are satisfied with this material condition, agitated condition, and driven by the thinking, feeling, willing of the mind. This is very dangerous. We want to get out. This is psychology.
Prabhupāda: Vāsudeva-parā vedā vāsudeva-parā... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). This is wanted. At least, one must know. Why they should be kept in darkness? What is this civilization? They have got light. The knowledge is there. They can be educated. And unnecessarily they are kept into darkness. Is that civilization? Others may do it. They have no knowledge. Why India? India should now stand up—"Stop this nonsense." They have got this culture. That is India's mission. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma. India cannot tolerate this. Do you follow? When... Even it is not possible to introduce this movement in a large scale, there is no harm. Anyone who takes it, he is happy. It is very difficult. We are not expected that manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3), everyone will be able to do it. But the ideal should be there. And it is India's duty to keep this ideal, Indian people's duty, government's duty. That will keep India's prestige in the highest level.
Prabhupāda: Pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Everything is complete by the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa. Simply we mismanage. That's all. I do not know why people are engaged with politics, fighting, and so on, so on. By Kṛṣṇa's grace everything is complete. You eat sufficiently, you be strong and keep your health good and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the arrangement. These rascals, they have created civilization, simply animosity-fighting, politics. This is Kali-yuga. Kali means simply unnecessarily fights. There is no need of fighting, but they'll create a situation, fighting. That's all. This is Kali-yuga, unnecessarily. Why politics? Why so much discussion, barking in the United Nations? Kṛṣṇa has given the formula. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). In America, Australia, Africa, they can produce so much grain that ten times of the population as it is now can be maintained. Similarly, Australia can produce ghee. So by Kṛṣṇa's arrangement everything is all right, the economic problem. Why they create this situation and occasionally fight and finish the whole...? Such a rubbish civilization, rākṣasa, unnecessarily increasing military power and spending all the revenues. Russia spends sixty-five percent-unnecessarily. And still starving. So this is mūḍha, duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina, only engaged in sinful activities, duṣkṛtina, and rascals, mūḍha, narādhama. He got the opportunity of this human life, and it misusing unnecessarily-narādhama. And their university education-māyayāpahṛta, useless knowledge, useless. Apahṛta-jñāna. Actually they have no knowledge.
Prabhupāda: No, why do you quote karma? Why you do not quote the beginning, the beginning of ABCD? If you have no knowledge of the ABCD, then karma... The monkey is also very busy, jumping, but as soon as a monkey comes, "Eh! Get out! Get out! Get out!" But he is thinking he's very busy. That, such kind of karma, will simply create disturbance. We must know what is karma. Karmaṇo hy api boddhavyam. We should understand what is karma. So anyway...
Guest (1): We are very grateful to you for your very kind work, but we have got something to do for ourself.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...therefore writing so many books. Bhagavad-gītā As It Is we are presenting. The Sanskrit verses you have written? Oh, very good. Hm. Nice. You are studying Sanskrit?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. We are going to charge high also this time. That's going to be... It involves a lot of hard work, and the scientific community will be open for this type of.... We are not saying something dogmatic. We are presenting in such a manner that it's very scientific and it's ready for discussion. There's no way that they can check it, that "It's coming from this movement. So, no, that's no knowledge." It must be open. It must be open-minded. We must change our views. And if you feel that our views are inferior, then you tell us. If it's inferior, then there is no reason that you shouldn't take it seriously.
Prabhupāda: So when Bombay festival will go on, your presence will be required.
Prabhupāda: Echo mano jano mandanam arpane.(?) Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā. You can very easily do it. And neglect it simply by dog race, four-legged, four-wheel race. They have no knowledge. Anthill. I have given the name. Anthill? Yes. These big, big buildings, anthill. And these four-wheel cars, dog-race. What is the difference between the anthill and the skyscraper building?
Guest (1) (Indian man): More modern only.
Prabhupāda: The same thing. They are also living in the holes, and we have made some holes.
Bhavānanda: Even in Africa, we saw some anthills that were as big as skyscrapers.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So I am also. So all these ministers, they invited me. They are in Hyderabad. I was in the house of Mr. Raju, the Endowment Minister. So they were very friendly. In Hyderabad, all the big, big government commissioners, the chief minister, they came in the opening ceremony of our temple. So it is fortunate that you were in Russia. So our humble attempt is to distribute the sublime knowledge of India. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Actually, outside India, there is no knowledge. Plainly speaking, their knowledge is as good as animals. Because in the śāstra it is said—and it is fact; either you refer to the śāstra or not, it is common sense-
Prabhupāda: Yes. So these animals, they are passing on as big scientists, philosophers, theologician, and so on, so on. We have to stop them. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This is the qualification of a person who does not accept God: duṣkṛtina, narādhama, mūḍha, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna-although highly educated, no knowledge-āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, simply atheist. So as Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders, we have to punish them, chastise these rascals. They are demons.
Girirāja: Actually, it's... It's actually relishable to chastise them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) It is a pleasure sport. So you come here. What is the news? What the, all these rascals saying? Newspaper means all the statement of rascals.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Indian man: They have not even proper knowledge.
Prabhupāda: No knowledge. All rascals.
Kārttikeya: Not even proper. No knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That is he difficulty. Rascals have become leaders.
Kārttikeya: And we follow them.
Indian man: And we have to, actually. It is...
Kārttikeya: Not we have to. Here is a leader. Why don't you follow him?
Indian man: But when we get the... Fortunately then we can do so.
Prabhupāda: Poor means poor in knowledge. Otherwise even a small ants, it is not poor. It is eating. You are not giving food. In this room you'll find some hole. Hundreds and thousands of ants will come out. Are you giving him food? And you go to the jungle. Thousands of elephants are there. Are you giving them food? Why you are concerned about the poor? Who is poor? Poor means who has no knowledge. He is rascal. He is poor. Poor means poor in knowledge. Otherwise nobody is poor. Everyone is getting his food according to his karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). These are wrong theories. Wrong means because they are rascals, they are putting something rascal, idea. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam, avyayam. Nityo nityānāṁ ceta... This is Vedic version. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). (Hindi) We want to stop all this nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Sevā-bhagavān accept, can accept.
- ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya
- yāre yaiche nācāya se taiche kare nṛtya
- (CC Adi 5.142)
So master can accept service. So whenever there is devotional service, it is called bhāgavata-sevā. And jīvera dayā. (Hindi) If you have got something, then you can be merciful to others. If you have no knowledge, what you can do? The basic principle... (Hindi) In India, Bhāratavarṣa, exalted knowledge, and if it is presented properly, people will accept. They are accepting now, one man's effort. If many men are prepared to do this service, the whole world will be followers of Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) (break) ... come to give here India's knowledge. In big meeting I told him that "I have not come here to beg. I have come here to give." Everyone goes from... Even the Prime Minister goes-beg. All beggars. And it is known as "beggars' nation." But you can be the giver nation. You have got so much potency. But we are not training people in that way. They are learning dog dancing. That's all. If we simply understand this one word, beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā... There are so many students of Bhagavad-gītā, but nobody understands Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: No, hanged. They are not guru. They are not missionaries. They do not know. They have no knowledge. And missionaries? You see? The so-called politicians, philosopher, religionists, rascals, distorting the meaning of Bhagavad-gītā. And yato mata tato patha. And "I like. Whatever I like, I can speak, and that is supported." What is this? Chaotic condition. There is no standard. We are giving the standard, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And Gandhi said, "Oh, how can I stop cow-killing? It is their religion." Just see. Such a rascal. "My religion is to kill others, and it should be supported by the government." Such a foolish man, they are on the government power. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, did he consider that? "So you are killing cow? You must be killed." That's all. Life for life. "It is my religion, sir." "Then get out here! Get out of my kingdom! Perform your religion outside." This is king. This is government. He said like that, Kali. You know?
Prabhupāda: Because they have no valid philosophy. It is simply official. They have nothing, no knowledge, no nothing, simply that dress and cloth. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like the original... When Jesus was there and he had twelve disciples, they simply gave up everything and traveled with him and tried to preach. So they were renunciates, living simply whatever they could take, nothing more, and devoting their lives to God. But the followers later on, more and more they added the degree of sense gratification, till now you can't see any renunciation at all within their order.
Prabhupāda: No, they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging homosex, giving man-to-man marriage. You know that? This is going on. Doing everything nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Jaya.
Patita Uddhāraṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. Please come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Phew! This boy, Patita Uddhāraṇa, has spoiled thousands of rupees for months. He has no knowledge or intelligence, and he's going around. We're thinking that this man is the foremost...
Prabhupāda: Useless.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To fly him from Madras to here and back is twelve hundred rupees, and Patita has been traveling for months all over India. Who knows how much they have spent on him? And he doesn't have the intelligence to ask the questions which Your Divine Grace just asked. Otherwise he could have known from the beginning that the man doesn't know a thing.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It will distribute India's glories. People will feel obliged to India, that "We have got this knowledge from India." Actually knowledge is here. There is no such knowledge all over the world.
- bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
- janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
- (CC Adi 9.41)
Paropakāra. India is meant for paropakāra. India is not meant for exploiting others. But unfortunately the knowledge is... Sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. We have got the store of knowledge, but we have kept it locked up, not distributed to the world. They are called jñāna-khala. One who has knowledge but he does not want to distribute it, that is, they are termed as jñāna-khala. So we should not be jñāna-khala. In India there is storehouse of spiritual knowledge, and every one of us should make our life successful by assimilating this knowledge and distribute all over the world. There is customer; there is appreciation. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. (Hindi) Why you should be jñāna-khala?
Prabhupāda: There is. Not everyone is misled. One who can protect himself from this misleading... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If they can understand their leaders are blind—they have no knowledge—then they'll be saved. That we are trying. And there is obstacle. When we say, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being," they take objection. They say, "Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). This is the struggle going on.
Indian man (5): So we have to leave anything in the feet of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Indian man (5): We have to leave everything...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No. How do you know? If you do not know what is the meaning of mat-para, how you can say "seldom"? Do you know what is mat-para? Unless you know who is mat-para, how you can say like that? You have no knowledge. Mat-para means a simple thing, one who has fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is very seldom? There are so many. But you have decided, "seldom." Why seldom? Here you see so many young men, our association. They are fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. They do not know anything else than Kṛṣṇa. So why it is seldom? You won't take. That is your fault. Rather, they are coming to you. They are canvassing. But you are so stubborn, you'll not take it. That is your fault. They are canvassing door to door. Why do you say, "It is seldom"? It is very easily available. But you won't take. That is your fault. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally came, and He canvassed door to door. He sent His men door to door. We are sending all over the world. But you do not come.
Prabhupāda: You recite that verse, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). The instruction of King Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons. He said that "This body, human body..." Ayaṁ dehaḥ. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Deha. Everyone has got deha, body. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "After this body is finished, another body...," because ātmā, na jāyate na mriyate vā, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Ātmā is eternal. There is no birth, no death. Nitya, eternal; śāśvataḥ purāṇaḥ, the oldest; and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Therefore this is the problem. The ātmā has no birth, no death, and neither he is dead after the annihilation of this body. But we are put into this condition. We are not put, but we have put ourself. We are putting ourself in this condition of repetition of birth and death. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Once we take birth, and again we annihilate this body. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This ignorance of self-realization must be removed." Therefore He says, ayaṁ dehaḥ: "This body should not be misused like animals," āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. This is the advice. Ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. He especially mentions, nṛloke: "in the human form of body." The dog, cat, or doglike man, catlike man, they may remain in ignorance. They have no chance. There are uncivilized men. Although they have got two hands, two legs, but because there is no knowledge, they have been described as dvi-pada-paśu. They are animal with two legs.
Prabhupāda: That is real evolution. What do they know of change of body? Therefore I say that, that you people, your brain is filled up with stool. You require thorough washing. You are not civilized. What is meaning of civilization? Improve animal life to civilized life. A dog can walk on the street naked; a man cannot. That is civilization. Otherwise dog is eating; you are eating. He's sleeping; you are sleeping. This is civilization. (indistinct) Culture. You have no knowledge of culture. Real knowledge is this: the body is there and changing; the soul is there, eternal. Then you become on the platform of God. If you remain in the same ignorance, then where is your advancement of civilization? If you cannot understand the simple truth, then where is your civilization?
Prabhupāda: Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param. It is the last stage of knowledge. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). When you surpass all the stages... Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param. It is the last word of knowledge. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. So unless you understand the supreme cause, Kṛṣṇa, there is no knowledge. And if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. Kṛṣṇa also says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2), ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then everything.... And how Kṛṣṇa can be understood? Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). No other way. You cannot understand by any other way. Therefore bhakti-vedanta is last knowledge. There is.... Argument there is.
Prabhupāda: Janmanā brāhmaṇo guruḥ. As soon as you take birth, brāhmaṇa is your guru. So where is brāhmaṇa? Tad-vijñānarthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Where is that guru? Therefore the society, chaotic condition.... As soon as you take birth, you have to accept brāhmaṇa guru. So there must be brāhmaṇas. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). There must be brāhmaṇas. Otherwise where is human society? It is animal society. In the animal society they are clever, enjoy. "How! How! How! How!" Jackals and tigers and big, this animal, that animal, they are everything. Where is the brāhmaṇa? This is the first time attempt is being made—"There must be brāhmaṇas"—this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They do not know the aim of life, how it should be organized, what kind of members there should be. No knowledge. Therefore I have challenged that "Your brain is filled up with stool. You do not know how human society is happy." Here is janmanā brāhmaṇo guruḥ. So where is brāhmaṇa? Janmanā brāhmaṇo guruḥ.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) When there is argument? Nonsense, how you can argue? And therefore you are rascal. And that is also forbidden. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: "Things which are beyond your conception, don't foolishly argue, rascal." That will prove your rascaldom. Better accept what the authority says. It is beyond your conception, rascal. Why you are wasting time? That we want to say, that all of them are rascals, and they are simply wasting time by false idea. Cheating. You know, there are companies. They'll... They have got photographic studio. So they adjust their moon hoax. They'll help you. If you have got particular idea... They are going to the moon planet, Mars. Nowhere the rascals go. There is no knowledge. How they can go? Teeny, imperfect. So if we can prove that they have no knowledge of the universe, neither of the position of their...
Prabhupāda: Just see. Then what is the government? Another combination of rascals, that's all. They have no knowledge.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some of them are also beginning to feel that...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that must...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...there is something wrong...
Prabhupāda: That must be.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...with the whole approach.
Prabhupāda: That must be there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like there is a physicist in Princeton. His name is Dyson, Freeman Dyson(?).
Prabhupāda: That's all right. This is very easy. So I am not a scholar. I am simply... Whatever is said there, I am trying to distribute in a palatable way. That's all. It is not my manufacture. And that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You all become guru. "How can I become guru? I have no education. I have no knowledge." No, you haven't got to acquire all these things. That is already... Yāre dekha tāre kaha. Finished. So I never tried to become a scholar. But I tried, whatever is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, deliver. That's all. And that is guru. If some...
Dr. Kumar: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you should rest now.
Prabhupāda: Eh? No...
Prabhupāda: Human activity should be guided toward Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is human. Otherwise it is animal. Take minimum demand, be happy, and make progress. That is the platform of progress. Very little... (too faint) The same shape, (too faint) they are improving to make straighter, topless, bottomless, in this way and that way, miniskirt. They are arranging. The thing is the same, but they want to change the taste in different way. No knowledge. That means (too faint). Sex, you require under... You'll get it between husband and wife. There is no difficulty. What is the use of that? Daily pregnancy, daily... Three days divorce. Actually I saw in Chicago, within three weeks, three divorce.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our temple?
Prabhupāda: No, no, some public...
Prabhupāda: Nobody. All these sannyāsīs, they leave. They do not give. They cannot give. They have no knowledge. Here the blind man, kānā, they keep them in darkness by some hobby and beggar, this, that, that... Actually they cannot do anything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was just appreciating how in every way you have provided for your disciples, in every aspect. You've created a movement where we have beautiful temples. You've given us this wonderful philosophy in books. In every way you've provided. You've given us these places, Vṛndāvana temple and Māyāpur temple. It's actually a fact that we can... You know, it's like a very loving father who provides everything for his children. I mean, I was just comparing that to this boy who had nothing. His guru expired, and he had nothing. He was bereft. But we'll always be very much provided for and cared for.
Prabhupāda: So with that feeling I want to produce them also, my followers. Everyone should be like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Empty promises. It says (reading from an article by Dr. Kovoor, president of the Shree Lanka branch of the Rationalist Society), "Even babies are born with a set of genetically determined behavior patterns known as instincts, but with no knowledge. Knowledge has to be put into the brain of a child through the five senses. If a child is born bereft of the five senses, it will grow like a vegetable, without a mind."
Prabhupāda: So why a child is bereft of senses and why the others not? Who controls it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "A child born deaf will neither be a Singhalese nor a Tamil, because it will not be able to speak the languages of either communities. It will be a dumb child."
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) From the rose tree, why rose flower come, not other flower? This is a species. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. They have no knowledge.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Without coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness it's not possible for them to understand. That is the root cause, that they're trying to assume that everything is coming out of chance. But once they...
Prabhupāda: These people, Gītā-pratiṣṭhāna, they spoke in Hindi. So there were so many foreigners. If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for Hindu or Hindi, not for others, what do they say?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are... They only spoke in Hindi. That means they're very narrow-minded.
Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa conscious. And Kṛṣṇa said, ahaṁ bīja-prada..., sarva-bhūtānām. "Gītā-pratiṣṭhāna."
| Page Title: | No knowledge (Conversations 1976 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 27 of Jun, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=110, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 110 |