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Nirvana (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: But he feels inconvenience without varieties of life. The Bhāgavata says, tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ: "Their intelligence is not clean." Arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ: (SB 10.2.32) "Although they rise up to the brahma-jyotir," patanty adho tataḥ, "they again come back."

Haṁsadūta: And the nirvāṇa conception of life is just before Brahman?

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa conception is marginal position between brahma-jyotir and this material world.

Haṁsadūta: Just on the brink.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kāraṇārṇava. Kāraṇārṇava. The Kāraṇa Ocean wherefrom the beginning of creation, material creation, that is nirvāṇa.

Devotee (4): Virajā.

Prabhupāda: Virajā, yes.

Revatīnandana: Is it possible to go there?

Prabhupāda: Why not? Yes.

Devotee (4): Arjuna went there.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: The Buddhist thinks that everyone is God.

Prabhupāda: In Buddhist theory there is no acceptance of God. There is simply to diminish, or to nullify the sense of pains and pleasures. That is called nirvāṇa.

Dr. Weir: The atheist is the person who worries most about God. I mean, he really... God must exist but he tries to deny it all. Rather like, I had a lecturer at Oxford who wasn't interested in women. He was a misogynist. He talked, you know (indistinct) and he spent all his time telling you he wasn't interested in women. He thought about nothing but women and the fact that he wasn't interested in them. His lectures were full of it. It was pathetic.

Śyāmasundara: Just like Kaṁsa!

Prabhupāda: Hiraṇyakaśipu. Gold and women.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). The exact word is there that if one gets good engagement, he can gives up bad engagement. But he cannot make it inactive. That is not possible because soul is active. It is living. How he can make it inactive? That is not possible. Nirvāṇa means stop nonsense, but take to spiritual life. That is next athāto brahma jijñāsā. Nirvāṇa does not mean to stop activities; to stop nonsense activities. Come to the real activity.

Dr. Weir: Well aṇiman, the word many people use for the soul, also means of course, life. (indistinct) being animate. The two are synonymous.

Śyāmasundara: Just like you were saying a while ago that if you were in God consciousness, you need not wear a robe. That's also our philosophy. It's very practical. But your consciousness would be always serving Kṛṣṇa, always serving God in whatever status of life. It isn't necessary to put on a robe first and then do like that.

Dr. Weir: But it helps some people.

Mensa Member: The soul is a very interesting concept, the soul as well, the fact that the soul is quantifiable, that it exists in a smaller part in the larger animals, and a higher part in a higher animals.

Śyāmasundara: No. It's the same size in all entities.

Mensa Member: Oh, it is, is it? But when we reach a point when we don't know whether there are living things or not, you know, the amino acids, and things like that or...

Dr. Weir: Well, I would take up that straight away, fundamentally, that it's perfectly correct to say it's the same size in every (indistinct) has no size.

Prabhupāda: No. It has size. We cannot measure it.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Lord is the master of material nature, and we are conditioned by the material nature and still we are claiming, "I am God." Then?

Devotee: "Unless one understands these bare facts it is not possible to achieve peace in the world, either individually or collectively. This is the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Predominator and all living entities, including the great demigods, are His subordinates. One can attain perfect peace only in complete Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the Fifth Chapter is the practical explanation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, generally known as karma-yoga. The question of mental speculation as to how karma-yoga can bring liberation is answered herewith. To work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is to work with the complete knowledge that the Lord is the predominator. Such work is not different from transcendental knowledge. Direct Kṛṣṇa consciousness is bhakti-yoga. and jñāna-yoga is the path leading to bhakti-yoga. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to work in full knowledge of one's relationship with the Supreme Absolute and the perfection of this consciousness is full knowledge of Kṛṣṇa or Supreme Personality of Godhead. A pure soul is the eternal servant of God as His fragmental part and parcel. He comes into contact with māyā, illusion, due to the desire to lord it over māyā. And that is the cause of his many sufferings. As long as he is in contact with matter he has to execute work in terms of material necessities. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, however, brings one into spiritual life even while he is in the jurisdiction of matter, for it is an arousing of spiritual existence by practice in the material world. The more one is advanced, the more he is free from the clutches of matter. The Lord is not partial toward anyone. Everything depends on ones practical performance of duties in an effort to control the senses and conquer the influence of desire and anger. And attaining Kṛṣṇa consciousness by controlling the above mentioned passions, one remains factually in the transcendental stage of brahma-nirvāṇa. The eight-fold yoga mysticism is automatically practiced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness because the ultimate purpose is served. There's a gradual process of elevation in the practice of yama, niyama, āsana, prāṇāyāma, pratyāhāra, dhāraṇā, dhyāna, and samādhi. But these only preface perfection by devotional service which alone can award peace to the human being. It is the highest perfection of life."

Prabhupāda: Therefore in another place, it is stated, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19), "After many, many births, when actually becomes wise, jñānavān māṁ prapadyate, he surrenders unto Me." That is the perfection of knowledge. So this is... The Bhagavad-gītā is the only source of scientific knowledge of God and our relationship with God. I am very glad that you are already very serious about understanding Bhagavad-gītā. But I request you only that try to... and understand Bhagavad-gītā without any, our man-made interpretation. That will be my request.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: But, but, that is not (indistinct). If you get another body, naturally the same way of life. Same way of life means this life... This material body means four functions: eating, sleeping, sex intercourse, and defense. So as soon as you take another body, it's the same business (indistinct). It may be dog's life, it may be cat's life, or it may be human life. But the business is the same: eating, sleeping, sex intercourse and defense.

Scholar: And the idea of nirvāṇa, and soul...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is an... That you have to prepare. That is not for the cats and dogs. That is meant for really human beings, those who are actually executing life as human beings. That is not for the cats and dogs. (pause) All right. Thank you very much.

Scholar: Thank you for this time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now my request is that you have got some, you have so many, you're interested in Bhagava... Preach like this.

Scholar: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What he's asking?

Scholar: About what we are planning.

Prabhupāda: Planning, but you're not prepared for the planning. Otherwise I could have given you the plan. But you are not prepared. You say you think of. Then you think of, what can I do?

Scholar: Yes.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: The Buddhists also say that the body is like a house. You put the house together, you put the body together with chemicals. And when the bodies die, just like you take the house apart, all the wood, and then there is no more house... no more soul, no more life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called nirvāṇa. And with the chemicals you can build another house. Buddhists they do not give any information of the soul. That is Buddhism. What...? Oh, wet? (the ground?)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, it's dry.

Paramahaṁsa: There's another very interesting factor that scientists, they state that matter is, or that there is, they dispute the fact that there's one soul within the body. There's a special kind of worm, it's an earthworm, that if you cut it in half, both parts will live.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Pradyumna: "By practice of yoga, one becomes gradually detached from material concepts. This is the primary characteristic of the yoga principle. And after this, one becomes situated in trance, or samādhi, which means that the yogi realizes the Supersoul through transcendental mind and intelligence, without any of the misgivings of identifying the self with the Superself. Yoga practice is more or less based on the principles of the Patañjali system. Some unauthorized commentators try to identify the individual soul with the Supersoul, and the monists think this to be liberation, but they do not understand the real purpose of the Patañjali system of yoga. There is an acceptance of transcendental pleasure in the Patañjali system, but the monists do not accept this transcendental pleasure out of fear of jeopardizing the theory of oneness. The duality of knowledge and knower is not accepted by the non-dualists, but in this verse transcendental pleasure, realized through transcendental senses, is accepted, and this is corroborated by the Patañjali Muni, the famous exponent of the yoga system. The great sage declared in his Yoga-sūtras: puruṣārtha-śūnyānāṁ guṇānāṁ pratiprasavaḥ kaivalyaṁ svarūpa-pratiṣṭhā vā citi-śaktir iti." This citi-śakti, or internal potency, is transcendental. Puruṣārtha means material religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and, at the end, the attempt to become one with the Supreme. This "oneness with the Supreme" is called kaivalyam by the monist. But according to Patañjali, this kaivalyam is an internal, or transcendental, potency by which the living entity becomes aware of his constitutional position. In the words of Lord Caitanya, this state of affairs is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, or clearance of the impure mirror of the mind. This "clearance" is actually liberation, or bhava-mahādāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. The theory of nirvāṇa—also preliminary—corresponds with this principle. In the Bhāgavatam this is called svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). The Bhagavad-gītā also confirms this situation in this verse.

After nirvāṇa, or material cessation, there is the manifestation of spiritual activities, or devotional service of the Lord, known as Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the words of the Bhāgavatam, svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ: this is the "real life of the living entity." Māyā, or illusion, is the condition of spiritual life contaminated by material infection. Liberation from this material infection does not mean destruction of the original eternal position of the living entity. Patañjali also accepts this by his words kaivalyam svarūpa-pratiṣṭhā vā citi-śaktir iti. This citi-śakti or transcendental pleasure, is real life. This is confirmed in the Vedānta-sūtras as ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This natural transcendental pleasure is the ultimate goal of yoga and is easily achieved by execution of devotional service, or bhakti-yoga. Bhaktiyoga will be vividly described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā.

In the yoga system, as described in this chapter, there are two kinds of samādhi, called samprajñāta-samādhi and asamprajñāta-samādhi. When one becomes situated in the transcendental position by various philosophical researches, it is called samprajñāta-samādhi. In the asamprajñāta-samādhi there is no longer any connection with mundane pleasure, for one is then transcendental to all sorts of happiness derived from the senses. When the yogī is once situated in that transcendental position, he is never shaken from it. Unless the yogī is able to reach this position, he is unsuccessful. Today's so-called yoga practice, which involves various sense pleasures, is contradictory. A yogī indulging in sex and intoxication is a mockery. Even those yogīs who are attracted by the siddhis (perfections) in the process of yoga are not perfectly situated. If the yogīs are attracted by the by-products of yoga, then they cannot attain the stage of perfection, as is stated in this verse. Persons, therefore, indulging in the make-show practice of gymnastic feats or siddhis should know that the aim of yoga is lost in that way.

The best practice of yoga in this age is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is not baffling. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person is so happy in his occupation that he does not aspire after any other happiness. There are many impediments, especially in this age of hypocrisy, to practicing haṭha-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, and jñāna-yoga, but there is no such problem in executing karma-yoga or bhakti-yoga.

As long as the material body exists, one has to meet the demands of the body, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating. But a person who is in pure bhakti-yoga or in Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not arouse the senses while meeting the demands of the body. Rather, he accepts the bare necessities of life, making the best use of a bad bargain, and enjoys transcendental happiness in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He is callous toward incidental occurrences—such as accidents, disease, scarcity and even the death of a most dear relative—but he is always alert to execute his duties in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or bhakti-yoga. Accidents never deviate him from his duty. As stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, āgamāpāyino 'nityās tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. He endures all such incidental occurences because he knows that they come and go and do not affect his duties. In this way he achieves the highest perfection in yoga practice.

Prabhupāda: If you have got any question in this statement, you can ask.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: I am coming, yes. (break) ...dehaṁ punar janma naiti. Such person, those who are fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, such person, after giving up this body, does not accept any more material body. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). "He comes to Me." So you cannot go to Kṛṣṇa unless you have your spiritual body. Because the spiritual world and Kṛṣṇa, they are all spiritual. So you cannot enter into fire unless you are fire. So you have to revive your spiritual body, spiritual consciousness. Then, after giving up this body, you enter the spiritual world. So Lord Buddha did not speak anything about the spiritual world, but his philosophy said that "Dismantle this material existence." Nirvāṇa. Nobody has preached that "You become happy here," either Lord Buddha or Lord Christ or Kṛṣṇa or anybody, Śaṅkara. Nobody. But modern materialistic people, they are thinking that "We can become happy by adjustment of our material condition." That is not possible.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Vegetables.

Haṁsadūta: It says nothing about... Yes.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes, but later it goes to add something that "Meat is meat unto you." Yeah. There your difficulty comes in. Well, Isaiaḥ in the Bible, one of five prophets in the Bible, he says: "Peace will come on earth when even the feroci..." (break) May you have long, healthy life.

Prabhupāda: What is your age?

Buddhist Monk (1): I am fifty-nine years.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Buddhist Monk (1): (Sanskrit or Pali:) We say arogya parama labha santuṣṭi paramam dhanam, viśvasa parama narthi nirvāṇa parama sva-dharma. (?)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Buddhists apparently leave) (end)

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So what is that ideal of perfection?

Yogeśvara: That it is nirvāṇa, it is the kingdom of Lord Jesus Christ. He says it is the ultimate point for which all men are ultimately striving.

Prabhupāda: So what is that? Nirvāṇa means zero. Everyone is trying for the zero?

Yogeśvara: (break) Nirvāṇa means something different for them?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: (break) He says it is an entering into something that is alive and real.

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa, this word is Sanskrit word. Nirvāṇa means finish. (break)

Yogeśvara: For them the word nirvāṇa means an end but an end to this material existence and an entrance into the silence of the Absolute, onto a level that is real, whereas this one is false. This one is rejected.

Prabhupāda: Why silence?

Yogeśvara: He says the term "entering into silence" is a mystic term that means...

Prabhupāda: He cannot explain.

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is Russians. I am asking him about his...

Yogeśvara: He says that the Rosicrucians they know what is the duty of human life.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: The destiny of human life.

Guru-gaurāṅga: ...the soul is a state, of crystik consciousness, Nirvāṇa, call it what you will.

Prabhupāda: That cannot be described.

Guru-gaurāṅga: ...with an understanding that is a million times beyond our understanding.

Prabhupāda: If it is beyond understanding, how can I accept it? (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: ...understanding, and it is translated onto the objective level.

Prabhupāda: If I do not understand whom to love, how can I learn?

Guru-gaurāṅga: It is in the heart of everyone. Simply it is a question of repressing the false ego for, eliminating the old man, the false ego.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: I'm not quite sure. He says that he doesn't understand why you are objecting. He says love is a part of everyone.

Prabhupāda: Because if you ask me to love, I want to know what is, whom I shall love.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Fourth Chapter. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Tattvataḥ, if you can understand, then your business is done. Then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Then, after giving up this body, you are not going to accept any more this material body. My problem is acceptance of this material body. That is my problem. Because these pains and pleasure, feeling of pains and pleasure, is due to my this body. Therefore Buddha philosophy is nirvāṇa, "Make this body zero." That is his philosophy. Nirvāṇa. Because people are bothered due to these pains and pleasures. Here everything is painful. But we take something pain, as pleasure.

Guest (1): Something, some devotees want the body again and again for doing service also.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (1): Some devotees want the body again and again...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee... Because people want perfection. But their perfection is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Their perfection is not to stop this body. But the... Anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, he's not living in this material world. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). Anyone who's engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, he's transcendental to these material qualities. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). (break) ...and then, after leaving this body, you are not going to accept any material body. And as soon as you accept a material body, you are under pains and pleasure. No pleasure, simply pains. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). We are trying to avoid pains. But it is not possible. The real pain, birth, death, old age and disease, that remains. What is the use of temporary getting some so-called pleasure?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guest: Well, I know your philosophy, cause I was very intimately involved with it, but I still believe that if, uh, your uh, you may have a different style, and you may call it Kṛṣṇa consciousness or you may call it nirvāṇa, but I think that ultimately it's, uh...

Prabhupāda: I can, I can explain Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but you cannot explain nirvāṇa. That is the difficulty. I can explain my position but you cannot explain your position.

Guest: How is it that I cannot explain my position?

Prabhupāda: Then explain what do you mean by nirvāṇa.

Guest: Well it's the ultimate state of consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Where is nirvāṇa when you do not know the meaning of nirvāṇa? Nirvāṇa means finished.

Guest: Uh, yes. I think that...

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa means everything finished, void.

Guest: Etymologically it means "no wind."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: "No wind."

Prabhupāda: No wind?

Guest: The root of the word, I believe, means "no wind." There's no wind.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. You can derive many meanings, but nirvāṇa means, just like flame is there, extinguished, finished.

Guest: That's not the way I understand nirvāṇa.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: That's not the way I understand nirvāṇa.

Prabhupāda: But this is the meaning, dictionary meaning, nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means there is flame and you extinguish. This is nirvāṇa.

Devotee: You want some more vegetables and purīs?

Prabhupāda: Give him. More, more.

Guest: Not more.

Devotee: Yes.

Guest: If it is an extinguishing, it's only an extinguishing of desire.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: If there's an extinguishing...

Prabhupāda: If desire is extinguished, then what you are?

Guest: But it's not extinguishing of desire; it's transforming of desire. Like this is one...

Prabhupāda: That is not extinguishing.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is not extinguishing.

Guest: Right. But in the sense it is, uh, the uh, flame of, uh...

Prabhupāda: That we say. You don't extinguish desire but we purify desire. That is our... But that is not the void, nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means finished.

Guest: Well, the way, uh, the way it's interpreted, you know, by the people that practice it, is that, uh, you don't extinguish your desires either but they're transformed into the Buddha principles. They say this is the meaning of Mahayana Buddhism, is that you, uh, learn to identify the desire passions with the Buddha principles, and so they become transformed so that...

Prabhupāda: Transformed to what?

Guest: Well, for instance lust is supposed to be transformed into compassion, and the other uh, the other passion desires are transformed to something else.

Prabhupāda: Then it is not nirvāṇa. It is real condition. Then that is our principle. That is not nirvāṇa. Just like...

Guest: Well, this is what I mean by nirvāṇa.

Prabhupāda: You mean, but you the word nirvāṇa. Suppose I take out your eyes. This is one thing. And I...

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Devotee: Gopāla wants to see you. (break)

Prabhupāda: Suppose I take out your eyes. That is nirvāṇa. But if there is some disease, I cure it, that is (indistinct). Suppose cataract, cataract operation.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guest: Well, um, whatever the origin, so the word may be etymologically, the way it's used by the people that I'm studying with and the way I understand the meaning of the word is a little different than meaning just uh, sheer nothingness. Sheer nothingness is supposed to be a misunderstanding of what nirvāṇa means.

Prabhupāda: Now you have to understand as it is in the dictionary.

Guest: Well, as it is used by people. You have to understand it as, as it's used, you know, in uh, by, by the people who are using this word to...

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means, I have already explained, this is the people take, those who know Sanskrit, nirvāṇa means extinguished. Now, you may have different meaning.

Guest: Right. Words change meaning as time goes on.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: Words, I mean their root may be one thing, but then as time goes on the, uh, word doesn't remain, uh, the same as used by uh...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you can give your own meaning. What do you mean by nirvāṇa.

Guest: Nirvāṇa is identifying your, uh, ah, passion desires with the innate Buddha principles, in this system.

Prabhupāda: The life symptoms?

Guest: Hm?

Prabhupāda: Symptoms of life?

Guest: In this system.

Prabhupāda: System? What is that system?

Guest: The, uh, Mahayana Buddhism.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Ah, yukta āsīta mat-paraḥ: "Always thinking of Me." Then?

Nitāi: Yuñjann evaṁ sadātmānaṁ yogī niyata-mānasaḥ.

Prabhupāda: "In this way one who practices yoga..."

Nitāi: Śāntiṁ nirvāṇa-paramām.

Prabhupāda: "Then he gets śāntiṁ nirvāṇa."

Nitāi: Mat-saṁsthām adhigacchati.

Prabhupāda: Mat-saṁsthām. "Then he is promoted to the Brahman effulgence." That means he surpasses the material existence. Then?

Nitāi: Nāty aśnatas tu yogo 'sti.

Prabhupāda: Ah, nāty aśnataḥ. It is not that you should not eat, abstain, no. Eat very little. So?

Nitāi: Na caikāntam anaśnataḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Not to eat more, not to eat less. Whatever will sustain you, you must eat.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: To become thoughtless.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they are disgusted with this material thought, therefore they want to make it zero. But that is not possible. You must think of something. But they have no spiritual idea. They do not know what is spiritual thinking. They think that "Make it zero. These thoughts, let us make it zero." Just like a diseased man, suffering for, from the very beginning of his life... Then, if somebody suggests that "When you'll be cured, you'll very nicely eat, nicely walk and nicely think," so he's coming to the stage of diseased condition, "Again thinking? Again eating? Again lying down on bed? Then what is the difference? No, no. It must be zero: no eating, no sleeping, no bedding, nothing." He's thinking like that. Because he has got bad experience of his diseased condition, he thinks, "Again if there is eating, again if there is walking, then how it can be cured?" He cannot think of. These rascals, because they have no idea what is spiritual thinking, they want to make this thinking zero only. That's all. Śūnyavādī. They are called Śūnyavādī, nirvāṇa, Buddhist philosophy. "Your body is subjected to pains and pleasure; so dismantle this body." This is Buddha philosophy. "Make it zero. There will be no more pains and pleasure." "You have got some trouble in the eyes? Pluck it out." He does not know how to cure it. He simply knows, "Pluck it out." This is their philosophy. Asatyere satya kari māni. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's song.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So we are trying to study this Zen Buddha. Buddha means, ordinarily, knowledge. Budhā bhāva-saman... (break) (French)

Karandhara: The Zen school is a liberalization of the old Buddhist doctrines. Previously, hundreds of years ago, to completely follow the Buddhist path one had to renounce all activity. He had to go away from civilization and live in hermitage. Zen...

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa. Finish everything.

Karandhara: Yes. Zen allows a man... According to the precepts of Zen, you can act within the world. You can be a businessman, you can be a soldier, you can be anything, and still attain the same state of perfection by acting without desire, by acting unattached to the results.

Prabhupāda: So that is our philosophy. We... Arjuna acted as soldier, and still, he was recognized as devotee. (French)

Bhagavān: What is the use of practice, if you practice or you don't practice you still get the same result?

Prabhupāda: No, practice must be there. You cannot avoid practice. We also practice.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: As Buddhists do.

Prabhupāda: Buddhists, they, I think, they... Yes, you are right, impersonal. But their philosophy is to stop all kinds of realization, nirvāṇa. Realization they do not want. They want to stop realization, to become zero. Is it not that?

Professor Durckheim: To become? I didn't understand.

Prabhupāda: Zero.

Professor Durckheim: Zero, yes. Well, zero from the point of view of the alter ego, but this zero is everything from the outside. From the point of view of the natural ego it's zero, but once you touch it, it's the plenitude, everything. But it's beyond something and everything, as far as I understand it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is beyond. That beyond is realized, as I explained to you, in different angle of vision. Some, impersonal, without any variety, and some, localized Paramātmā, and some, the Supreme Being. As you are sitting, I am sitting, we are talking, so the Absolute Truth is a person, Supreme Person, Supreme Being, and we approach Him, talk with Him, sit with Him, play with Him. That is Kṛṣṇa realization. First of all, negation of the material varieties, then impersonal realization, then localized realization, then personal realization. Just like a diseased man. First of all cure, then healthy activities. A diseased man has got activities. He also eats, he also sleeps, he also evacuates, but all troublesome. Therefore, being disgusted, he wanted to make everything zero. But if he hears that again sleeping, again eating, again evacuating is healthy life, he thinks it is something like his diseased condition. But healthy life is different from diseased life. So some philosophers, they are trying to negate this diseased condition only, without any realization of healthy life. So I think Buddha philosophy is called nirvāṇa, negation of this diseased condition of life, pains and pleasure. Am I right or wrong?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: How can darkness argue with the sunlight? Their trying to argue is just like darkness trying to argue with the sunlight.

Prabhupāda: And that Burmese said, "We don't believe in God." And you don't believe in God. You don't... Why you believe Lord Buddha? He is God.

Amogha: Then he said, "But there is no God mentioned in Buddhism. There is nirvāṇa."

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you worship Buddha. Why?

Amogha: Because he spoke about nirvāṇa. In Burma many people are Buddhist. They say they are Buddhist.

Prabhupāda: Till now, 2,600 years past from the Buddhist community, from other groups and Arabia, very big religionist or philosophers has come. They are all in darkness. It was for the time being. The Buddhist religion was for the time. Atheist class men... (end)

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Siddha-svarūpa: You see? They're saying that perfection is no motion. They're saying that perfection is inactivity. So they already have in their mind what they think is perfect, and then they're going to see if this method helps a person to achieve calmness or whatever they're calling perfection.

Prabhupāda: That is that Buddha philosophy, nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa, stop all activities. Buddha philosophy.

Harikeśa: So someone who's actually following the scientific method, when he comes up to these bewildering conclusions about a devotee, he will be forced to inquire into the spiritual consciousness? Therefore we might be able to say this is a bona fide thing.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: Because they are bewildered—they will see the conclusions, they are bewildered—they will then have to inquire further, "Well, why is this? Why is this?" They will have to come to the spiritual platform to understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: So why so many desires? Because one desire is not complete, therefore you desire next. Therefore the process of desiring is defective, and our process is to purify the desires, not to remain in the imperfect platform of desiring, but whatever desire you have got, just purify it. Then it will be satisfied. So desire produced by bodily concept of life will never be satisfied. Therefore some of them are trying to become desireless, the impersonalists. Nirvāṇa.

Brahmānanda: That is also impossible.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Indian man 3: Still there is a desire to become desireless. (break) ...nice example for Mr. Seller, a murghee(?). He thinks the rains are getting under and then cutting his slack.

Prabhupāda: Expensive. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was one of those men over there. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One of the men over there made that sound, Prabhupāda.

Cyavana: They just came out of that dancing club.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Guru-kṛpā: Then they say, "Why you desire to serve Kṛṣṇa?"

Prabhupāda: Huh? That is not desire. It is a natural. That is natural. Obedience to Kṛṣṇa, that is my natural business. Servant's business is always ready: "What can I do, sir?" This is not desire. This is natural position. He's not desiring anything. He's simply ready, "What can I do?" Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). That is, he's not desiring anything. Desire means when I want something for my satisfaction, that is desire. (break) ...mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya. He's simply expecting what spiritual master will order. Citta. Āra nā koriho... He has no other desire. That is desirelessness. (break) Desireless means a wooden stone. It has no mind, how it can de.... But every living entity has got mind, so this is desirelessness, that "I'll wait for the order of my master and immediately execute." That is desirelessness. .... (break) stop functioning, then what is the meaning of guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya **? That means awaiting the order from the mouth of guru. Āra nā koriho mane. He has no other desires. That is to be under.... (break) Nirvāṇa, nirvāṇa means that you give up all material desires. Not that "But he did not say anything more than that." Because it was meant for the fourth-class men, so he did not say. He simply asked that you finish this material desire.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Purport. "By practice of yoga one becomes gradually detached from material concepts. This is the primary characteristic of the yoga principle, and after this one becomes situated in trance, or samādhi, which means that the yogi realizes the Supersoul through transcendental mind and intelligence, without any of the misgivings of identifying the self with the Superself. Yoga practice is more or less based on the principles of the Patañjali system. Some unauthorized commentators try to identify the individual soul with the Supersoul, and the monists think this to be liberation. But they do not understand the real purpose of the Patañjali system of yoga. There is an acceptance of transcendental pleasure in the Patañjali system, but the monists do not accept this transcendental pleasure out of fear of jeopardizing the theory of oneness. The duality of knowledge and knower is not accepted by the nondualist, but in this verse transcendental pleasure realized through transcendental senses is accepted, and this is corroborated by the Patañjali Muni, the famous exponent of the yoga system. The great sage declares in his Yoga-sūtras: puruṣārtha-śūnyānāṁ guṇānāṁ pratiprasavaḥ kaivalyaṁ svarūpa-pratiṣṭhā vā citi-śaktir iti. This cit-śakti, or internal potency, is transcendental. Puruṣārtha means material religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and, at the end, the attempt to become one with the Supreme. This oneness with the Supreme is called kaivalyam by the monist. But according to Patañjali, this kaivalyam is an internal, or transcendental, potency by which the living entity becomes aware of his constitutional position. In the words of Lord Caitanya, this state of affairs is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), or clearance of the impure mirror of the mind. This clearance is actually liberation, or bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. The theory of nirvāṇa—also preliminary—corresponds with this principle. In the Bhāgavatam this is called svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). The Bhagavad-gītā also confirms this situation in this verse. After nirvāṇa, or material cessation, there is the manifestation of spiritual activities, or devotional service of the Lord, known as Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the words of the Bhāgavatam, svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ: this is the real life of the living entity. māyā, or illusion, is the condition of spiritual life contaminated by material infection. Liberation from this material infection does not mean destruction of the original, eternal position of the living entity. Patañjali also accepts this by his words kaivalyaṁ svarūpa-pratiṣṭhā vā citi-śaktir iti. This citi-śakti, or transcendental pleasure, is real life. This is confirmed in the Vedānta-sūtras as ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This natural, transcendental pleasure is the ultimate goal of yoga and is easily achieved by execution of devotional service, or bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga will be vividly described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā." Should I keep reading Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Good writer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's a good one.

Hari-śauri: It says "Sconce: crown of head." It's an old term for the crown of the head.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a special article about prasādam, Prabhupāda, called "Food for the Gods." "Of all the ways of getting to heaven, or nirvāṇa, or whatever your ideal place may be, the Hare Kṛṣṇa way is one of the most pleasant. Believers of this faith are convinced that you can eat your way into higher spiritual realms. Of course, this doesn't mean that food itself is sacred and the more you eat the holier you are. To begin with, there is a strict prohibition against the killing of animals, so meat, fish and eggs are not included in the diet at all of the Kṛṣṇa devotees. Furthermore, there are many special rules for preparing the food which may be offered to Kṛṣṇa to be blessed by Him and therefore to bring blessings to anyone who partakes of it." Should I read this whole article?

Prabhupāda: Um, hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The recipes given below, taken from the Hare Kṛṣṇa Cookbook'—another good advertisement, and they give you at least three or four recipes in here. They give recipes for, the recipes are for...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, he has given more pages for our movement.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Mr. Malhotra: No imagination. But paraṁ pada that is nirvāṇa, or whatever...

Prabhupāda: Yes, paraṁ pada is just like you fly in the sky, go very high. So from here we cannot see that you are separately existing. But you are separately existing. It is my deficient eyes that I see that you are not separate. (?)

Mr. Malhotra: Identification will remain always?

Prabhupāda: Always. Therefore it is said in the śāstra, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32), ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ... It is said, "My Lord, the lotus-eyed, vimukta-mānina, if somebody artificially is thinking that he has become liberated or merged into the existence, āruhya kṛcchreṇa, for which he has undergone very severe tapasya," āruhya kṛcchreṇa... Kṛcchreṇa means with great difficulty. Paraṁ padam, brahma-jyotir, patanti adhaḥ, "again he falls down," anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ... Just like these rascals that are going in the sky to find out a place in the Mars and in the Moon. And why they are coming back? If actually one has gone, then why he's coming back?

Mr. Malhotra: To tells to others that they saw something.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is negative side. First of all... Just like mauna... (break) Why maunam? There is no need of maunam. You have to chant. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā. So there is negative side and positive side. One who has no information of the positive side, they simply take the negative side. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Jagan mithyā is all right, but where is that brahma satyam? That brahma satyam is here, when you are fully engaged in serving. Brahma satyam does not mean I simply make negative this, and there is no engagement. That brahma satyam will not endure. You'll fall down, because you are active. If you have no engagement, then you fall down again. Just like a child, he is engaged in playing always, but engage him in studying. If he gets little interest, then automatically he gives up playing. But if you simply stop playing, then he will become mad, because activity is there. These Māyāvādī philosophers, they do not know this. They simply take the negative thing—this material engagement, zero, Buddha philosophy, nirvāṇa. And that nirvāṇa is another word, nirviśeṣa. That will not help us. There must be varieties and there must be positive life, and that is bhakti. So without bhakti you cannot stop your nonsense activities, neither...

Dr. Patel: (Hindu) But even you get the same thing by (Hindi). So Vaiṣṇava cult is easier than getting the mind blank and then getting all in the... Because here your mind is engaged to Lord Himself. It is... We call as samādhi.

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Just like a man is observing Ekādaśī, fasting. Another, in the hospital, he's also fasting. So these two fastings, they are different.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: I once heard that when some devotees wanted to buy a church in America you suggested that they should keep the altar and next put Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and give simultaneous lecture from Bible and from Bhagavad-gītā. I was thinking that in Shree Lanka, if it would be all right to have a deity of Lord Buddha and speak simultaneously on the Dharmapatha(?) and also Bhagavad-gītā, showing how Bhagavad-gītā is beyond the stage of nirvāṇa. Is that a good idea, Prabhupāda, or not?

Prabhupāda: Good idea, provided you can present properly.

Haṁsadūta: Because Buddhists come and they ask, "If Lord Buddha was an incarnation of Viṣṇu, then why he did not teach about God? Why did he not teach about the soul?" So I always explain to them it's like teachings ABC's and teaching advanced literature. He was teaching ABC. That was required. He did not go into higher subject matter.

Prabhupāda: First of all the Buddha wanted to make them sinless, "Don't kill." And you are not following that even. His business was to stop sinful life. In sinful life one cannot understand God as He is.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: Once Lord Buddha, they say, was sitting under a bo tree, and a leaf fell down. He picked it up and he said, "The knowledge I am giving you is like this leaf compared to the tree of knowledge." So I always quote that. They appreciate that, "Oh, yes," that beyond nirvāṇa there is brahma-nirvāṇa, and beyond that there is Paramātmā, and above that there is Bhagavān.

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa means sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is nirvāṇa. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityaj... Parityajya means giving up, and that is nirvāṇa. It requires expert presentation.

Haṁsadūta: In all the temples they keep a Viṣṇu Deity. All the Buddhist temples they have a Viṣṇu Deity. They have a saying that Viṣṇu promised Lord Buddha to protect the Buddhist religion in Śrī Lanka for five thousand years in this age. They say that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many more years they have to go?

Haṁsadūta: I don't know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I'm thinking to go today to the Rādhā-Dāmodara temple to see how things are going on. You told me regularly to check there whenever we're here?

Prabhupāda: Not immediately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Better not to go today. Okay. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...keeping money in the bank. Means so long I think that the bank keeping money is my pocket. And as soon as I've got the sentiment that these men are interested to keep our money in their pocket, I'll be very careful not to deposit.

Page Title:Nirvana (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:09 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=30, Let=0
No. of Quotes:30